Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and
Speaker 2: waters that this podcast is recorded on. Hello, it's your host,
Speaker 2: Claire Stevens, jumping into your ears to tell you why
Speaker 2: this episode of But Are You Happy? Sounds a little
Speaker 2: bit different. It's because we recorded it live at south
Speaker 2: By Southwest, Sydney in October. I was joined by Olympic
Speaker 2: gold medalist no Ami Fox, and I interviewed her in
Speaker 2: front of a live audience. But I didn't want any
Speaker 2: of you to miss out on hearing this episode, which
Speaker 2: is why we've released it for you to listen to enjoy.
Speaker 3: Welcome to But Are You Happy?
Speaker 2: The podcast that asked the questions you've always wanted to
Speaker 2: know from the people who appear to have it all.
Speaker 2: I'm your host, Claire Stevens, and I'm joined by Olympic
Speaker 2: gold medalist and widely adored athlete no Amy Fox. Usually
Speaker 2: we would get straight into the show, but I wanted
Speaker 2: to give just a little explanation of what but Are
Speaker 2: You Happy? Is about for anybody who is coming across
Speaker 2: it for the first time. So it's not an original
Speaker 2: idea to say that Culturally, we're sold a little bit
Speaker 2: of a lie about happiness, that achievement brings it, that
Speaker 2: being really, really ridiculously good looking might bring it, that
Speaker 2: money might bring it, That finding your life's passion is
Speaker 2: definitely going to bring it, that being famous or being
Speaker 2: applauded or winning a gold medal might bring it, and
Speaker 2: that if you strive and strive and do your best
Speaker 2: and get the thing, then you will be able to
Speaker 2: look around, it will be completely uncomplicated and you will
Speaker 2: feel deliriously happy. But deep down we know that humans
Speaker 2: are far more complicated than that. I think this lie
Speaker 2: is pedled even further now that we live in this
Speaker 2: image based culture and we're all absorbing the shiny parts
Speaker 2: of other people's lives. Things like birthdays and wedding days
Speaker 2: and travel and winning gold medals are reduced to two
Speaker 2: dimensional images of smiling faces instead of being felt as
Speaker 2: the really complex emotional experiences that they are. The problem
Speaker 2: is that then our expectations get really unrealistic, and we
Speaker 2: get to certain moments in our lives and we feel
Speaker 2: like we're not feeling what we're meant to feel. So
Speaker 2: on this show, I ask people like no Amy about
Speaker 2: success and failure and vulnerability and jealousy and times the
Speaker 2: world told her she'd be happy and she wasn't, And
Speaker 2: together we unravel the illusion that anyone's emotional reality is uncomplicated.
Speaker 2: So with that, no Amy, I want to start by
Speaker 2: asking you whether you grew up in a happy household.
Speaker 1: I feel like I've never been asked that question before,
Speaker 1: but yes, definitely. I think like any childhood, there's ups
Speaker 1: and downs. I think, you know, it wasn't always happy, happy, happy,
Speaker 1: and I do think I definitely felt you know, sad
Speaker 1: or angry or frustrated a lot of the time, especially
Speaker 1: you know, growing up straight away with a sister that
Speaker 1: just excelled in every single department.
Speaker 3: But overall, definitely a happy household.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I feel extremely lucky and grateful
Speaker 1: to have been instilled really great values of you know,
Speaker 1: hard work, discipline. Both my parents from the start. You know,
Speaker 1: they didn't push kayaking onto us. I think they let
Speaker 1: us discover all these different sports, but we also got
Speaker 1: drilled into the lesson of getting back into the boat
Speaker 1: or back on the horse when things didn't go well,
Speaker 1: or finishing a term of dance even if I hated it.
Speaker 3: So there was definitely you know a.
Speaker 1: Lot of yeah, that sort of hard work, discipline, but
Speaker 1: also so much enjoyment and you know, freedom growing up
Speaker 1: in Australia.
Speaker 3: But I was born in France and I.
Speaker 1: Moved to Australia at the age of two for the
Speaker 1: Sydney two thousand Olympics. My parents were both involved in that,
Speaker 1: and I think they just loved Australia, you know, the
Speaker 1: freedom that lifestyle brought, how big and green the places were,
Speaker 1: the fact that we could walk to school undisturbed and safely,
Speaker 1: and so yeah, I think there was so much happiness
Speaker 1: and that sort of childhood, but also going back to
Speaker 1: France every year and being with my grandparents. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I think, you know, it was also quite hard growing
Speaker 1: up in Australia without extended family, and that's something that
Speaker 1: you know, I reflect on now as I'm getting older
Speaker 1: and maybe thinking about starting a family. But yeah, definitely
Speaker 1: so much happiness and hard work, commitment, freedom of expression
Speaker 1: and yeah, so it was a good, very lucky childhood.
Speaker 2: Do you feel like France and Australia are culturally different
Speaker 2: when it comes to happiness, Like when you spend time
Speaker 2: in France versus when you spend time in Australia, do
Speaker 2: you feel like there's a different ethos.
Speaker 1: Towards that emotion a little bit. I think Australia's kind
Speaker 1: of like you're doing great mentality. And I loved school
Speaker 1: in Australia because I felt like I was doing a
Speaker 1: great job. In France, I did a few terms and
Speaker 1: they'd rip out my paper because I didn't write in
Speaker 1: the right cursive handwriting, or I did a few spelling mistakes.
Speaker 1: So also, you know, the schools, they were indoors and
Speaker 1: we would do school from eight am until six pm
Speaker 1: with a two.
Speaker 3: Hour lunch break.
Speaker 1: And then in Australia you do nine am until three
Speaker 1: pm and you run home and then you can play
Speaker 1: outside or do swimming, do kayaking, do running. So I think,
Speaker 1: you know, today, I do think that life is kind
Speaker 1: of easier in Australia.
Speaker 3: I think it's easy to be happier.
Speaker 1: There's a lot more like dialogue and open dialogue around
Speaker 1: mental health and awareness there. In France, I think there's
Speaker 1: still that sort of you know, work hard, be the
Speaker 1: last one to leave the office, and a bit more
Speaker 1: of like the yeah, I don't know. I think it's
Speaker 1: much easier to express yourself freely and not feel as
Speaker 1: judged maybe in Australia, know the French, they like to judge.
Speaker 3: So what was.
Speaker 2: Your dynamic like with Jess when you were growing up,
Speaker 2: like she's a couple of years older. Did you feel
Speaker 2: I also have a sister Jess who It's funny your
Speaker 2: sister Jess was topp to the state in a subject
Speaker 2: and was ducks.
Speaker 3: So was my sister Jess.
Speaker 2: So I feel like I understand a part of you,
Speaker 2: a very small part of you, not the Olympic part.
Speaker 2: But what was that dynamic like as you're growing up
Speaker 2: and I guess your benchmark for success is just so
Speaker 2: bizarrely just the outlier, Like what's that like?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think growing up we were great companions, you know.
Speaker 1: I think we traveled a lot with my parents that
Speaker 1: were both involved in the sport, and my mum she
Speaker 1: would just leave us two together by the river and
Speaker 1: we occupy ourselves and I don't really.
Speaker 3: Know what we did, but we always, you know, had
Speaker 3: each other.
Speaker 1: And I think my mum she was an only child,
Speaker 1: and so she really wanted to make sure that we
Speaker 1: were friends forever. And that's something that she's really been
Speaker 1: aware of. Also my dad as well, he's in this picture.
Speaker 1: But you know, I think being an only child, she
Speaker 1: really wanted to make sure that we were together no
Speaker 1: matter what. And that's something that's kind of been reinforced
Speaker 1: as it got a little bit more competitive and with
Speaker 1: only one spot at the Olympics. And that's also something
Speaker 1: we're both very aware of. So our relationship is something
Speaker 1: that is incredibly valuable to both of us, and we
Speaker 1: both know that sport is kind of leading, but you know,
Speaker 1: life is hopefully a very long journey that we can
Speaker 1: share together. But growing up, I, as you know, the
Speaker 1: younger sibling, I think I tried to, you know, steal
Speaker 1: her clothes or things I still do now, but like,
Speaker 1: you know, be a little bit, I don't know, try
Speaker 1: to edge her on. And she was so and still
Speaker 1: is like calm and just like the type of person
Speaker 1: that when you realize you keep egging them on and
Speaker 1: they don't give you anything, you just stop annoying them,
Speaker 1: like come on.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 1: Like, So we didn't fight really, like obviously there were
Speaker 1: moments where you'd have, like, you know, a few arguments,
Speaker 1: but I really think it was quite a chill childhood
Speaker 1: and relationship even in high school because she's such a
Speaker 1: chill person that eventually, I you know, like I just
Speaker 1: gave up and started, you know, having a happy relationship
Speaker 1: with her. And then yeah, then you know, I think
Speaker 1: in high school she started to become really good at kayaking,
Speaker 1: and she won the world championships and I was there,
Speaker 1: and and then she did like HC topped the state
Speaker 1: in what was it, PHP and then got a ninety
Speaker 1: nine point one a task. I was like, oh god,
Speaker 1: double world champion, senior world champion, nine nine point one
Speaker 1: ATA great. I'm just gonna be the disappointment. There's no
Speaker 1: I can't do better than that, you know. So I
Speaker 1: think that period of my life, you know, when I
Speaker 1: did the HC, I there was that like I need
Speaker 1: to beat her in something, and I did in one
Speaker 1: one self check, And yeah, I think there was always that,
Speaker 1: you know, comparison, and even in sport, and then definitely
Speaker 1: in sport, so we also nearly did the same degree,
Speaker 1: and I'm glad there was like a difference there, but yeah,
Speaker 1: there was a lot of comparison. And we all know
Speaker 1: that comparison is the thief of joy, but it's also
Speaker 1: inevitable and it's inescapable sometimes as well, so definitely hard
Speaker 1: kind of having such a huge, you know, like benchmark,
Speaker 1: but also being in the same industry. It's not like
Speaker 1: I then went on to do medicine and taekwondo. You know,
Speaker 1: I was in the same industry and also doing the
Speaker 1: same sport. So it's yeah, an inevitable comparison. But also,
Speaker 1: you know, Jess is so likable that I never felt
Speaker 1: that sort of jealousy or envy, and she has always
Speaker 1: been so supportive for my career and my goals. And
Speaker 1: even though sometimes you're like, well, it's so degrading because
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, good job, that's amazing, and it's nothing
Speaker 1: compared to what you've achieved.
Speaker 3: But I'll never forget.
Speaker 1: We were at the New South Wales and Street of
Speaker 1: Sports Awards and the person who spoke they said it
Speaker 1: was for the world championship medalists and they said, you know,
Speaker 1: you start out by being the best in your household,
Speaker 1: you're the best in the street, and then in the
Speaker 1: state and then in the country. And I looked to
Speaker 1: my psychologist who was there with me, and I was.
Speaker 3: Like, I'm still on level one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know I think, yeah, definitely growing up
Speaker 1: with that sort of comparison was hard, but it was
Speaker 1: also growing up with that benchmark of you know, success,
Speaker 1: that benchmark of being able to compare myself every day
Speaker 1: to the.
Speaker 3: Best in the world. And while there were so many
Speaker 3: traps and.
Speaker 1: Demons that came with that, there was also so much
Speaker 1: growth and good that came from that, and that helped me,
Speaker 1: you know, get to where.
Speaker 3: I am today.
Speaker 2: It's something that I think you notice that I notice
Speaker 2: it as a sibling, that the media kind of laughs about,
Speaker 2: but I think that there can be some real pain
Speaker 2: there when you feel.
Speaker 1: Kind of overshadowed in your own family.
Speaker 2: But what I find really interesting I did a deep
Speaker 2: dive after your win, and there's all this research about
Speaker 2: younger siblings being, like in sport, being incredibly incredibly successful.
Speaker 2: And when you think about it, in you know, there's
Speaker 2: the Williams sisters, there's Kate and Bronte Campbell, there's something
Speaker 2: about that younger sibling having to wait and having to
Speaker 2: be patient that genuinely does result in a very spectacular
Speaker 2: type of excellence. What do you think that is, like,
Speaker 2: what is that mindset that clearly by waiting for your turn,
Speaker 2: it actually makes you brilliant in a completely different way,
Speaker 2: like like what do you think that is?
Speaker 3: I think it comes down to a lot of things.
Speaker 1: For me, it was exactly that, you know, I've been
Speaker 1: waiting for my moment for such a long time, and
Speaker 1: part of me thought that I'd never get that moment,
Speaker 1: I'd never get that opportunity.
Speaker 3: I'd always be the.
Speaker 1: One person in my family that wasn't an Olympian, that
Speaker 1: never like made it. And so, you know, you get
Speaker 1: the jokes like you said of oh my god, what's
Speaker 1: it like being the only person that's never made it
Speaker 1: to the Olympics in your family, and you're like, ah, great,
Speaker 1: Like what do you think you know? Like so yeah, definitely,
Speaker 1: you know you laugh it out. But I think it
Speaker 1: was something I kind of came to terms with but
Speaker 1: didn't didn't completely, you know, extinct wish the fire of
Speaker 1: that dream of getting to the Olympics, but it was
Speaker 1: always one spot. And when Kaye Cross came to the
Speaker 1: Olympic program, it was finally an opportunity for me to
Speaker 1: get a qualifying spot. And I think it was that
Speaker 1: it was waiting for such a long time to get
Speaker 1: that moment that when it came, I was like clinging
Speaker 1: onto it, and I was like, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: let this go easily. And I think, you know, in
Speaker 1: addition to all of that, it's also the mindset of
Speaker 1: I think, you know, not having your self worth and
Speaker 1: your identity just tied up in the sport because otherwise
Speaker 1: you're just completely and just constantly crushed because you have
Speaker 1: an older sister that's always successful. So it's understanding that
Speaker 1: there's more to life than just sport and trying to
Speaker 1: develop yourself in different ways. And so I did two degrees,
Speaker 1: did my undergrad then did a master's because in the
Speaker 1: period of finishing my undergrad and my masters, I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm just an athlete. That's really scary,
Speaker 1: and I don't know if I just want to be
Speaker 1: just an athlete. And I learned that I actually am
Speaker 1: more successful in my sport when I have that sense
Speaker 1: of balance, you know, that sense of purpose that when
Speaker 1: I go to work they think of me as such
Speaker 1: a cool athlete, but then in the kayaking community, I'm
Speaker 1: the one with the real girl, big job, you know.
Speaker 1: So there was that sort of sense of balance and
Speaker 1: purpose that came from that, and I think that really
Speaker 1: fueled me. So yeah, when that opportunity came, it was
Speaker 1: really like, finally my moment. I'm not going to let
Speaker 1: this get away very easily. And I think in the games,
Speaker 1: that sort of media attention and the expectations of oh,
Speaker 1: you're going to be like your sister, You're going to win.
Speaker 1: I think for me, I'd already done so much work
Speaker 1: in you know, canceling out the expectations the noise, and
Speaker 1: for me, I was so driven to like be here
Speaker 1: and proud that I'd made it, that my goals and
Speaker 1: like my own internal dialogue was out trumping like everything
Speaker 1: in the media. So yeah, I think there was a
Speaker 1: lot of mindset, mental prep that came with, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of building that resilient mindset so to handle all
Speaker 1: the expectations to know why I'm there, to know that
Speaker 1: you know, I'm also I've had the hardest selection out
Speaker 1: of pretty much any other athlete, so.
Speaker 3: I'm worthy of being here.
Speaker 1: I have what it takes to do well, and yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to let my moment, my turn, finally
Speaker 1: go easily.
Speaker 2: Do you feel like because you'd been exposed to what
Speaker 2: success looked like in the lead up to that, like
Speaker 2: once you qualify for the Games. Well, even before you
Speaker 2: left Australia and you didn't know if you were going
Speaker 2: to qualify, do you visualize, like, do you visualize that
Speaker 2: moment of winning? Is that a thing?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a thing, and it's something you don't really
Speaker 1: talk about because you I don't know. I think I
Speaker 1: was kind of embarrassed of telling people that I would
Speaker 1: dream of winning the Olympics because it's such a hard
Speaker 1: thing to do that. I really mentally prepared myself for
Speaker 1: I guess disappointment as well, and I was okay with
Speaker 1: the disappointment. But I had a really hard qualification race
Speaker 1: in Prague, and in September we had to put in
Speaker 1: a strategy in place to to really, you know, focus
Speaker 1: on getting to the Olympics. And so for eight months,
Speaker 1: visualization was a huge part of my strategy and I
Speaker 1: would visualize that race, the rounds, and the finish line
Speaker 1: of qualifying to the Olympic Games. And I feel like
Speaker 1: I sound so wooy when I say this, but I
Speaker 1: really feel like I manifested so much of that result,
Speaker 1: even to the point that you know, I was thinking about,
Speaker 1: you know, what's the worst case scenario of being up
Speaker 1: against you know, who are the worst.
Speaker 3: Athletes that would really destabilize me.
Speaker 1: And then I ended up in that exact heat that
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I think I'm really strong mentally.
Speaker 3: I need to stop manifesting this.
Speaker 1: But so when I qualified, I really like wrote down
Speaker 1: everything to make sure that it wasn't just luck and
Speaker 1: you know manifestation. It was also you know, hard work
Speaker 1: paying off at the right time, this incredible focus and resiliency,
Speaker 1: and yeah, that carried me through to Paris, that sort
Speaker 1: of same focus. And and there's a funny story. We
Speaker 1: have like a track suit and then we have a
Speaker 1: podium tracksuit. And when we were the week of the
Speaker 1: competition and just was up first. I was a week later,
Speaker 1: and the day before her race, we were neighbors, so
Speaker 1: I went into her room and I saw that she
Speaker 1: had her podium track suit hanging up so she could
Speaker 1: see it every single day. And I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's such a good idea.
Speaker 3: And then after she.
Speaker 1: Won, I actually and when it was the day before
Speaker 1: my race, I got my podium tracksuit out and I
Speaker 1: tried it on and I hung it up and I
Speaker 1: was like, you know, I just wanted to feel what
Speaker 1: it was like wearing that. But there was a lot
Speaker 1: of visualization about winning, mainly in Prague, and I think
Speaker 1: that was my qualification race in June, and then for
Speaker 1: the Olympics there wasn't I didn't visualize winning. I didn't
Speaker 1: even visualize you know, the podium. I think I had
Speaker 1: a completely different visualization process, and it was on the
Speaker 1: actual process. You know. It was visualizing the crowd because
Speaker 1: normally we compete maybe max. One thousand people are watching.
Speaker 1: Here there was fifteen thousand people. The noise was something,
Speaker 1: the adrenaline was something, so you know, visualizing this time,
Speaker 1: not the heats. I didn't want to manifest being next
Speaker 1: to some really tough people, but you know, the media
Speaker 1: manifested Jess and I so.
Speaker 3: And yeah.
Speaker 1: So there was a different sort of visualization, but it
Speaker 1: was definitely a key.
Speaker 3: Part of the whole process.
Speaker 2: You say a lot that, especially like leading up to
Speaker 2: the Olympics, you were process driven.
Speaker 3: What does that mean.
Speaker 1: I think it's so easy to get carried away and
Speaker 1: just think about the result. Especially in kyae cross and
Speaker 1: ki cross, you have so many different rounds. It's not
Speaker 1: like in sylom where you have one race and you've
Speaker 1: got to deliver your perfect race.
Speaker 3: In kite cross, you.
Speaker 1: Have the time trial, then you have round one, then
Speaker 1: you have Heat one, and then you have the quarter final,
Speaker 1: semi five, and final. So it's so easy to kind
Speaker 1: of get carried away and think, Okay, if I get
Speaker 1: top two, then I'm going to be in this and
Speaker 1: then I might be up against this person, and then
Speaker 1: all I need to do is beat that person and
Speaker 1: then I'm in the final. So it's really easy to
Speaker 1: get carried away, and also to think compared to slalom,
Speaker 1: where you know, if your level is top ten, then
Speaker 1: you should make the final and you can hope for
Speaker 1: a top ten finish. In kaya cross, you can be
Speaker 1: one of the best in the world and be knocked
Speaker 1: out in the top thirty two. That's what happened to Jess,
Speaker 1: and I think it was a testament to the level
Speaker 1: of the women that were competing. It was an incredibly
Speaker 1: hard field and so I was, you know, I had
Speaker 1: made the Olympics. I didn't want to get carried away
Speaker 1: by the expectation of winning, or there was an inherent
Speaker 1: fear of being eliminated first. That was definitely there, but
Speaker 1: I didn't want to, you know, be consumed by that.
Speaker 1: So something that really helped me throughout the whole competition
Speaker 1: was just I had, like, you know, my little journal
Speaker 1: kind of like Nicola the high jumper, and always you know,
Speaker 1: just focusing on the process, what I needed to to do,
Speaker 1: how I felt, really reflecting on the facts. I think
Speaker 1: it's so easily like you can just get carried away
Speaker 1: by thinking of that, you know, the self doubt, the
Speaker 1: imposter syndrome, the result. But you know, reminding myself of
Speaker 1: my previous results that you know, I had, what it
Speaker 1: I have, what it takes to be here, and really
Speaker 1: doing that positive reinforcement to stay in the moment and
Speaker 1: then focus on what I need to do before getting
Speaker 1: on that ramp, and then what I need.
Speaker 3: To do up until the first gate.
Speaker 1: So yeah, really staying in the moment and doing you know,
Speaker 1: having little cues that kind of help you get in
Speaker 1: that moment. But yeah, it's very easy to get carried
Speaker 1: away and think of the result and the Olympics essentially
Speaker 1: you see the one percent of the success. And it
Speaker 1: was really important for me to be be prepared to
Speaker 1: have a disappointment but also enjoy the whole Olympic Games experience.
Speaker 1: There's so much more to the games than just that
Speaker 1: end result and just the certificate you get that says
Speaker 1: your place at the end of the the campaign. And
Speaker 1: so because it was so hard for me to get there,
Speaker 1: because I never thought I would make an Olympics, I
Speaker 1: wanted my experience to be defined by more than.
Speaker 3: Just my results.
Speaker 1: So I signed up to all the activities. I you know,
Speaker 1: did the opening ceremony, lived and breathed the magic of
Speaker 1: the Olympics. When it was jess as race, I let
Speaker 1: myself be carried away as a sister and as a
Speaker 1: teammate and to you know, live the wins, not just
Speaker 1: to step out. I didn't want to be too emotionally invested,
Speaker 1: but you know, I ended up being very emotionally invested
Speaker 1: and very drained and exhausted.
Speaker 2: But your batteries recharged quickly because I can imagine, like.
Speaker 3: You could obsess over I think.
Speaker 2: That that idea of sticking with the facts is really
Speaker 2: applicable to anyone because you can totally psych yourself out.
Speaker 2: And I've listened to you talk about your sport and
Speaker 2: the fact that in order like even in order to compete,
Speaker 2: you sort of have to go over it, like it's
Speaker 2: in Europe, and so you could psych yourself out and
Speaker 2: be like, well, all these people have the course in
Speaker 2: their backyard and I have to fly over here, Like
Speaker 2: you could completely lose your mind, and clearly you don't.
Speaker 3: Do you have a performance coach or a mindset coach?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I had a sports psychologist that I've been working
Speaker 1: with since I think it's been two years, and I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's definitely easy to get psyched out. And
Speaker 1: like you said about going overseas and people having a
Speaker 1: course in their backyard. We actually had three months of
Speaker 1: no water in Australia, so that was very hard. We
Speaker 1: had a water quality issue at our only training center
Speaker 1: at in Penrith. Green algae blue green algae not great,
Speaker 1: our worst enemy, and so we after the selections in February,
Speaker 1: we had no water for a whole month and that
Speaker 1: was really hard because you start seeing people preparing doing
Speaker 1: training camps in Prague, where the Olympic selection was. That
Speaker 1: would kind of give me anxiety when I'd open my
Speaker 1: phone and see people doing training camps there, or training
Speaker 1: camps with other athletes as well. Like I just had
Speaker 1: Jess and one other under twenty three guy who was
Speaker 1: really great to train with, but other than that, there
Speaker 1: really wasn't a level that would help me train for
Speaker 1: the Olympic qualification race, and so that in itself was
Speaker 1: easy to get psycked out on. And then we went
Speaker 1: overseas in March to do a training camp with the
Speaker 1: British girls and the French girls, which was great, but
Speaker 1: then came back and no water until we left overseas,
Speaker 1: so there were lots of little I guess hurdles that
Speaker 1: we had to go over that definitely can make it
Speaker 1: really hard to.
Speaker 3: Swallow I guess.
Speaker 1: And then yeah, back in September as well, having to
Speaker 1: give up my World championships to remain eligible to qualify
Speaker 1: for the race in June. There was a very messy
Speaker 1: period in September because the rules that were written there
Speaker 1: were a lot of Yeah, it was basically a policy
Speaker 1: that was very confusing for everyone and had a lot
Speaker 1: of loopholes and traps, and I was a victim of
Speaker 1: those loopholes and traps, and so that was a very
Speaker 1: frustrating period. But then yeah, the mindset coach and my
Speaker 1: whole performance staff, they really helped me switch that narrative
Speaker 1: as well, and see well you actually have an opportunity
Speaker 1: to go to the Olympic Games, you know, so we
Speaker 1: have to do everything we.
Speaker 3: Can to see those opportunities.
Speaker 1: So this whole, I guess past year there's been a
Speaker 1: lot of you know, changing the narrative to see the
Speaker 1: positive and seize the opportunities. And and you know, those hurdles,
Speaker 1: they make you stronger, a lot of flatwater, you know
Speaker 1: that that's great for our sprint and our starting sprint,
Speaker 1: and that's something that definitely helped me.
Speaker 3: At the Olympic Games.
Speaker 1: I had the fastest start out of everyone, So I
Speaker 1: think I was, you know, racing to do my best,
Speaker 1: and that was still my strategy at the Olympics, you know,
Speaker 1: race at your potential. But for that race and Prague
Speaker 1: and then afterwards for the Olympic Games, it was, you know,
Speaker 1: race to win and race to do your best. And
Speaker 1: it didn't feel irrational, like it felt very rational, you know,
Speaker 1: to dream that big and to go for it in
Speaker 1: that sense. So yeah, I think a lot of mindset
Speaker 1: coaching and positive reinforcement and you know, changing the narrative
Speaker 1: and seizing the opportunities. I really see this past journey
Speaker 1: as like a story of overcoming the noise, the self
Speaker 1: doubt and really seizing the opportunity and being so driven
Speaker 1: that nothing can get in your way.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I find that so fascinating because there's so many
Speaker 2: different ways to look at a situation. And from the outside,
Speaker 2: when you won, it seemed like the most perfect. It
Speaker 2: seems like everything had been logically leading up to that moment.
Speaker 2: But I can imagine there are many times throughout the
Speaker 2: process where it feels like there are things completely against you.
Speaker 2: When you think back to the race, now, what do
Speaker 2: you you see, Like, what's the what's the moment.
Speaker 3: In the race.
Speaker 2: I'm sure everybody here has watched the race, maybe multiple times.
Speaker 2: What's the moment in the race that is the most
Speaker 2: vivid to you when you think about it.
Speaker 1: I actually had to rewatch the race a few times
Speaker 1: because it kind of all feels like a blur, even
Speaker 1: though it was four days of racing, so it's a
Speaker 1: lot of days of racing, a lot of races, and
Speaker 1: yet it kind of just all feels like this one race,
Speaker 1: and I think the moment that really sticks out to me.
Speaker 1: I guess they're true, the one that I feel most
Speaker 1: vividly that I you know, remembered that I was in
Speaker 1: the moment was before the final, and I had a
Speaker 1: moment with my coach, who he's very again process driven
Speaker 1: and come and I think that's exactly what you need
Speaker 1: for the Olympic Games, you know, really centers down and
Speaker 1: focuses on our little cues, our little protocols, what we
Speaker 1: have to do. But right before the final, he was
Speaker 1: broke character and he was like we made it, like
Speaker 1: go out and enjoy it, you know. And I think
Speaker 1: that kind of not unsettled me, but brought me out
Speaker 1: of that process and really made me be in the moment.
Speaker 1: And when I walked up with my kayak, everyone was
Speaker 1: getting their kayaks held by the volunteers, but I would
Speaker 1: always carry mine and I think it kind of just
Speaker 1: helped me, like, you know, really get ready for the race.
Speaker 1: And when we were on the ramp, there was a
Speaker 1: French girl with me, so she really amped up the crowd.
Speaker 1: You know, they were so excited to have her. But
Speaker 1: when they called my name, they also really cheered for me.
Speaker 1: And I knew my friends were in the crowd and
Speaker 1: they would always play music and they played ulavou by
Speaker 1: Abba and you know, you're kind.
Speaker 3: Of like vibing to that show.
Speaker 1: But I think that's one of the moments that just
Speaker 1: really sticks out to me because it was pure, like
Speaker 1: I think, enjoyment, like I really felt I'm meant to
Speaker 1: be here, you know, like I made for this moment,
Speaker 1: Whereas when I was watching the slalom, I really feel
Speaker 1: like being alone in those blocks with everyone watching you,
Speaker 1: waiting the countdown and then having that bit of stretch
Speaker 1: of water to get into.
Speaker 3: Your race would have really freaked me out.
Speaker 1: And here I see like this kite Cross moment, and
Speaker 1: I was so calm, so ready, so excited, and I
Speaker 1: really do think that, you know, I realized that I've
Speaker 1: always been made for kaya cross as opposed to slalom,
Speaker 1: and my success in slalom was kind of because of
Speaker 1: that environment, not being able to ever make it, not
Speaker 1: being able to put the perfect rundown, and then being
Speaker 1: in this Kita Cross environment, I feel like I really
Speaker 1: thrived and was able to you know, express myself and
Speaker 1: achieve those results. So sometimes that change of environment, you know,
Speaker 1: really helps. But yeah, so there's that moment on the ramp,
Speaker 1: and then there's also the last upstream, which for me
Speaker 1: in the final kind of defines my whole Olympic campaign,
Speaker 1: and that's being leading but not even thinking I'm gonna win,
Speaker 1: like really just leading and focusing on the next gates.
Speaker 1: And then in the last upstream, knowing that Kimberly Woods
Speaker 1: from gb was behind me and that she'd go to
Speaker 1: attack me because she's one of the strongest paddlers, and
Speaker 1: she tries to attack and overtake me in the last
Speaker 1: up but I do I think what my dad calls
Speaker 1: the up of the century, you know, And I managed
Speaker 1: to get in and out the sort of technique that
Speaker 1: you practice in training that's really hard to execute in
Speaker 1: a race, and that's really hard to execute after six
Speaker 1: rounds of racing when you're really tired. And for me,
Speaker 1: that sort of I guess really summarizes and beautifully wraps
Speaker 1: up my Olympic campaign of being so focused and being
Speaker 1: able to pull out my potential when it mattered, and
Speaker 1: the finish line isn't something that I remember as deeply.
Speaker 1: I think that was a state of shock, pure shock.
Speaker 3: I think I nearly passed out.
Speaker 2: After the break. I asked now Amy whether she's superstitious
Speaker 2: and how she mentally prepares for a big competition like
Speaker 2: the Olympic Games.
Speaker 3: Are you superstitious?
Speaker 2: Like, is there anything like just before you started or
Speaker 2: even during the race, is there anything that happens you're like, Oh,
Speaker 2: if this happens, it's a sign that blah, or I
Speaker 2: have to be wearing this thing. Like do you have
Speaker 2: kind of something that you have a superstition around.
Speaker 3: I'm definitely superstitious.
Speaker 1: And bringing it back to the sports psychologists who really
Speaker 1: tried to remove my high level of how superstitious I was,
Speaker 1: and to you know, I had this thing before the Games.
Speaker 1: I was like, I can't wear my mouthguard. Every time
Speaker 1: I wear my mouthguard, I lose the race. And he's like,
Speaker 1: I don't think it's the mouthguard. I'm sure you'd rather
Speaker 1: keep your teeth and wear the mouthguard. And so, you know,
Speaker 1: there was elements like that where it kind of got
Speaker 1: a bit too carried away. But I'm definitely superstitious, and
Speaker 1: I take the signs. I take all the little, you know, cues,
Speaker 1: you know, I have the im app on my phone,
Speaker 1: the affirmations up and things like that, and I take
Speaker 1: those cues to you know, boost me. But I definitely
Speaker 1: do like wearing the same clothes if I have a
Speaker 1: good run and I would always wear I was wearing
Speaker 1: my long sleeve CAG and you know, I got through
Speaker 1: the first day, I got through the second day, got
Speaker 1: through the third day, and on the fourth day was
Speaker 1: really hot and I was like, oh, do I wear
Speaker 1: my long sleeve CAG and sweat and be uncomfortable and
Speaker 1: be way too hot but you know it's brought me
Speaker 1: good luck? Or do I change for a short sleeve
Speaker 1: And you know, there was a twenty minute thought process
Speaker 1: that went into that, and then I wore the short sleeve.
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm still going to do well even
Speaker 1: if I were in a short sleeve. And then there's
Speaker 1: another level and everyone's going to think I'm absolutely crazy.
Speaker 1: But in twenty twenty two, there was this woman who
Speaker 1: stopped me at the World Championships and she gave me
Speaker 1: like this little this little rock and it had this
Speaker 1: fox drawn onto it. And I was at a really
Speaker 1: I think frustrating point in my career and felt very
Speaker 1: nervous for those World Championships. I really wanted to make
Speaker 1: the final and I felt like I needed like an
Speaker 1: extra push, and so I put the rock in my
Speaker 1: sports rock and I made the final, and I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: This rock has super Woman is amazing.
Speaker 1: Anyway, I care for that rock and I had it
Speaker 1: with me in Prague and I wore it in Prague
Speaker 1: and it had, like I said, the little Fox on it.
Speaker 1: And that day when I qualified, my Grandpa Fox he
Speaker 1: passed away that evening, so it was I knew he
Speaker 1: was sick, and it kind of you know, carried me through,
Speaker 1: but he found out just in time that I qualified.
Speaker 1: So that was, you know, a really moving but hard
Speaker 1: thing to process after having such a huge high and
Speaker 1: then being hit by such a low. So when it
Speaker 1: came to Paris and Jess told this story as well,
Speaker 1: but there's a little memorial and you can collect these
Speaker 1: little rocks. So because my rock of my Fox had
Speaker 1: such a huge significance to me, I also collected one
Speaker 1: from the memorial for my other grandpa that had also
Speaker 1: passed away.
Speaker 3: So I did the.
Speaker 1: Final with my true little rocks and my sports rat
Speaker 1: and when I was getting ready for the quarterfinal on
Speaker 1: the final day, I realized I didn't put them in.
Speaker 1: So I went back running to the change room and
Speaker 1: my coat was like, why are you running?
Speaker 3: What did you forget? And I didn't want to yell out,
Speaker 3: you know, my little rocks idiot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I had my little rocks, had the mouthguard
Speaker 1: which didn't bring any bad luck, and I had a
Speaker 1: different short sleeve. So superstitious, but also you know, working
Speaker 1: on not being reliant on.
Speaker 3: Like the rocks.
Speaker 2: I think cancel out the mouthguard. I think we all
Speaker 2: know that logically, rocks cancel out mauth. God. There's something
Speaker 2: called gold medal syndrome, and it's the idea. It doesn't
Speaker 2: just apply to w Olympians, but it's it's kind of
Speaker 2: a phenomenon just in life. But it has been born
Speaker 2: out of the idea that once you win a gold medal,
Speaker 2: there can be a bit of a dip, like people
Speaker 2: can experience depression and anxiety and a bit of a
Speaker 2: funny feeling around loss of purpose. And it's probably the
Speaker 2: transition from such a high high and being so driven
Speaker 2: towards a single goal and then achieving that and then
Speaker 2: feeling a bit empty. How has it been since the Games?
Speaker 2: Have you had any of that kind of whiplash from
Speaker 2: experiencing such an intense high.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had heard about it and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's definitely not going to affect me. Because I'm just
Speaker 1: so happy and internally satisfied and nothing can bring me
Speaker 1: down from achieving, you know, such a huge, huge goal
Speaker 1: that's kind of indescribable. But I think, you know, I've
Speaker 1: experienced it to an extent. I think it's it's for me.
Speaker 1: It's more so been. You know, you you have the
Speaker 1: two most intense weeks of your life. Everything's new, everything's exciting.
Speaker 1: You have no time to process. Like I said before,
Speaker 1: it's like every day is huge, and you know, I
Speaker 1: wrote in my journal every single day to kind of,
Speaker 1: you know, help on that processing side, and to also
Speaker 1: remember everything, because otherwise it's all a blur and you
Speaker 1: forget all these incredible things that you did or things
Speaker 1: that happened. But then when I got home on that charter,
Speaker 1: I think think that was the first time I could
Speaker 1: really like whoa, you know, everything hits you and you
Speaker 1: finally have time to think about everything that you just experienced.
Speaker 1: And something I am really grateful for was that my
Speaker 1: partner was there, and because it's really and also my
Speaker 1: family obviously, but it's really hard to describe how that
Speaker 1: experience changes you. And so when you have people that
Speaker 1: are there and experience it firsthand with you, especially my
Speaker 1: family and my partner. I think it just makes it
Speaker 1: so much easier. Otherwise you can't. You go home and
Speaker 1: you're like it changed me, but you can't you know, describe,
Speaker 1: and you know that they don't know what you experienced.
Speaker 1: So that definitely helped. And then I think, yeah, it
Speaker 1: was a lot to deal with, you know, the media,
Speaker 1: the constant like everyone I guess wanning a piece of you.
Speaker 1: But then also the quiet time and seeing that there
Speaker 1: are other gold medalists that are doing this, this, this,
Speaker 1: and oh should I be doing that or you know.
Speaker 1: But I think for me, something that's really helped me
Speaker 1: has been having this level of I guess, maturity and
Speaker 1: experienerience before winning gold. I like I said, my identity
Speaker 1: wasn't just an athlete. So this gold medal isn't like
Speaker 1: suddenly my life is amazing. It's this huge bonus, but
Speaker 1: it's not. I feel like I'm equipped to say not
Speaker 1: to a lot of things, or to you know, give
Speaker 1: a perspective on a lot of things. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: think the biggest thing has been that's kind of given
Speaker 1: me a lot of anxiety has been the amount of
Speaker 1: messages I've received because it's quite overwhelming and it's amazing,
Speaker 1: but you can't reply to all of them, and there
Speaker 1: are a lot of people you don't reply to, and
Speaker 1: then you know they say, oh, you know I followed
Speaker 1: you before this, and now you've just forgotten me, or
Speaker 1: like friends that you don't reply to, and then you
Speaker 1: just feel like a bad friend because you never got
Speaker 1: to message. So there's a lot of that that I
Speaker 1: think has been causing more anxiety than before. But otherwise
Speaker 1: I think, you know, for me, it's just the internal
Speaker 1: satisfaction of like having achieved something I never thought i'd
Speaker 1: achieve and having you know, proven to myself that I
Speaker 1: have what it takes to be remarkable and to achieve
Speaker 1: greatness and to you know, when I put my mind
Speaker 1: to something what it's incredible I can achieve essentially, so
Speaker 1: that kind of out trumps everything. But then you know
Speaker 1: there's still the oh, like they're more interested in Jess
Speaker 1: and they're interested in me, or.
Speaker 3: I'm still the younger sister.
Speaker 1: Or you'll get media that you know, bring you over
Speaker 1: to do an interview after they finished with one gold
Speaker 1: medalist and they're like, oh, we'll just wait for your
Speaker 1: sister and you're like, okay, but I'm here.
Speaker 3: Do you want me? Or should I move on?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 3: So there's that as well, when.
Speaker 2: The gold comes all this media attention and as you say,
Speaker 2: social media, everyone's messaging you, commenting. There's just a whole
Speaker 2: lot of attention, and I'm always interested in with that
Speaker 2: your story gets covered in a whole lot of different ways.
Speaker 2: And as you say, the fact that you know you
Speaker 2: might still be described as Jess's sister can be incredibly infuriating,
Speaker 2: because if you're a gold medalist in your own right,
Speaker 2: is there anything else through the process of being in
Speaker 2: the media and on social media that you've found has hurt?
Speaker 2: Like I think what I find interesting is that when you're,
Speaker 2: you know, a media golden girl from the outside, you
Speaker 2: see that attention as purely positive and exciting and you
Speaker 2: must be on top of the world, but it must
Speaker 2: also be weird because it's about you. And has there
Speaker 2: been anything that you've been a bit that you bristle
Speaker 2: at or you're a bit uncomfortable with?
Speaker 1: Not really, I always try to like not be controversial,
Speaker 1: and so I think that's helped me a lot. But
Speaker 1: then there's that element now where I'm like but I
Speaker 1: do want to speak up about some things. But there's
Speaker 1: my you know, the inner me that's like, oh no,
Speaker 1: you'll go against you know, all your values and this
Speaker 1: is this. So I think I haven't given the media
Speaker 1: anything to like like and when I see stuff like
Speaker 1: or be the next dress Fox or Jess Fox and
Speaker 1: her sister or you know some one. The other day
Speaker 1: I did see like a really there was a podcast
Speaker 1: on Jess and it's like Jess Fox.
Speaker 3: They talk and they're like, oh, and your sister she
Speaker 3: also won.
Speaker 1: And they never like name my name and things like that,
Speaker 1: And for me, I do like I brush past that,
Speaker 1: but you know, it does bite me sometimes. But I
Speaker 1: also think, you know, because my name is quite difficult
Speaker 1: to pronounce. Sometimes I'm like, it's just the name. They
Speaker 1: just don't know how to Yeah.
Speaker 2: By the way, is there a French way to say it? Yeah?
Speaker 2: How do you say it in a pretty way.
Speaker 1: In a nice way. The way it's meant to be
Speaker 1: said is nu And all. What I don't understand is
Speaker 1: my dad's English. So I don't know how he never
Speaker 1: thought that in English, you know, the name doesn't exist
Speaker 1: or it sounds wrong.
Speaker 3: But he also loved it.
Speaker 2: After the break, I ask Naomi about failure, and she
Speaker 2: gives me one of the most profound answers I've heard
Speaker 2: from a guest about how to conceptualize failure. I'm obsessed
Speaker 2: with the idea of failure and what we learn from it,
Speaker 2: and how often failure teaches us a lot more than
Speaker 2: success does. Is there a failure that sticks out to
Speaker 2: you as something that really changed the course of your
Speaker 2: life and actually taught you a huge lesson. I think
Speaker 2: there's not like one race where I think it was
Speaker 2: a huge fail But I think where I had the most,
Speaker 2: where I struggled the most with the idea of failure
Speaker 2: was definitely in September when.
Speaker 1: I had to give up my World Championships, because it
Speaker 1: was kind of it was the time and the place
Speaker 1: where I made that campaign public that I was going
Speaker 1: for that one of three Olympic spots and no one
Speaker 1: else had really, you know, put that forward. I think
Speaker 1: I was used to doing three categories, and when you
Speaker 1: do two categories and you miss one race, you've got
Speaker 1: the other category, and then you miss that race and
Speaker 1: you've got the other category. So it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: you feel safe with the armor of three categories and
Speaker 1: three opportunities, and this was the first time I was
Speaker 1: fully putting myself into Kia Cross, and there was this
Speaker 1: huge fear of failure of losing my World Championships and
Speaker 1: then missing the quota and then I would have been
Speaker 1: left with nothing, and then the next World Championships was
Speaker 1: two years away. So for me that the idea of
Speaker 1: just doing that was a big fear of failure and
Speaker 1: embarrassment as well, like, oh, how embarrassing you know she
Speaker 1: publicly went for that quota and didn't do the world
Speaker 1: and now she missed, whereas you know, I didn't do that,
Speaker 1: did the world and I made it. So there was
Speaker 1: a big battle with failure. But I think, you know,
Speaker 1: I really worked on the mindset of like, true failure
Speaker 1: isn't missing that quota and missing the target, it's never
Speaker 1: taking the shot to do it. And that really helped
Speaker 1: me really commit to that goal and not be afraid
Speaker 1: of missing the target and not getting the quota. But
Speaker 1: there was, yeah, definitely a deep battle with that idea
Speaker 1: and fear of failure of you know, not making the
Speaker 1: Olympics and missing out and it would have been so
Speaker 1: public and I would have, you know, wasted so much
Speaker 1: of my career and my world championships and things like that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I really was at peace with that, and
Speaker 1: I knew that so much good would come from really
Speaker 1: committing one hundred percent to that Olympic qualification. And when
Speaker 1: it came to the night before, I was so proud
Speaker 1: of myself, I think, for having committed so much and
Speaker 1: being so you know, committed to that goal but not
Speaker 1: half hearted about it, like, oh, yeah, well if I miss,
Speaker 1: I didn't fully commit and I still have canoe and kayak,
Speaker 1: and yeah I won't get to the Games, but not
Speaker 1: everyone gets to the games. You know. I was so
Speaker 1: committed to that goal and I had nothing to lose,
Speaker 1: And yeah, I knew that so much good would come
Speaker 1: from that process of accepting that I might miss, but
Speaker 1: that it wouldn't be a failure because there would be
Speaker 1: so much growth that came from having an Olympic opportunity
Speaker 1: and doing everything to qualify for that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you forget from the outside about all those tiny
Speaker 2: decisions that you actually had to sacrifice things and give
Speaker 2: things up and be incredibly intentional in order to achieve something.
Speaker 2: When you think about the rest of your life, what
Speaker 2: is it that you still want in order to have
Speaker 2: lived a happy life. Like when you think about being
Speaker 2: an old woman and looking back at a life that
Speaker 2: you think is meaningful and happy, what do you think that.
Speaker 3: Life looks like? It's funny.
Speaker 1: I actually had this thought the other day well, as
Speaker 1: soon as we finished the games, and it was like, gosh,
Speaker 1: these are all memories. Now it's all done, and it's
Speaker 1: all memories, and it does make it does.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's hard to visualize looking back and being like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I won gold forty years ago or something like that,
Speaker 1: but I think, you know, I'm incredibly ambitious and driven
Speaker 1: in different ways, and.
Speaker 3: I've worked full time.
Speaker 1: I've done an internship in Switzerland where I worked full time,
Speaker 1: and that was also my first.
Speaker 3: Glimpse of life outside of sport. That was four years ago.
Speaker 1: But it also made me realize how much I love
Speaker 1: the sport and how much the sport is a part
Speaker 1: of me. And so I do hope that I'll stay
Speaker 1: connected to the sport in some way, and I think
Speaker 1: that's definitely inevitable.
Speaker 3: The river has a way of, you.
Speaker 1: Know, attaching itself to you and keeping you involved and
Speaker 1: around it, and I think career wise, sporting wise, I
Speaker 1: definitely won a World Championship medal and we have the
Speaker 1: World Championships at home next year and that's definitely my
Speaker 1: big target Olympics wise. You know, I think four years
Speaker 1: is a long way away and I'm definitely at this
Speaker 1: stage set on LA but I think, you know, backing
Speaker 1: up isn't something I've thought of just yet.
Speaker 3: I do hope that I.
Speaker 1: Can go in slalom as well and not just in
Speaker 1: cai cross, so that will definitely be my target. But
Speaker 1: then outside of the sport, there's so much that you know,
Speaker 1: I'm excited by as well, career wise, getting back into consulting,
Speaker 1: maybe working if I'm not competing in Brisbane and always
Speaker 1: involved in sport or the Olympic committee in some way.
Speaker 3: That's something that really excites me.
Speaker 1: But I've worked already at the Olympics in a different
Speaker 1: capacity as a commentator, and I think I definitely want
Speaker 1: to stay involved in that way because at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, I think, you know, I realized that
Speaker 1: the Olympics is like the only place where I get
Speaker 1: to feel such incredible emotions. It it's like a drug essentially.
Speaker 1: You know, you want to be involved, even if you're
Speaker 1: not an athlete. You want to be involved in those
Speaker 1: key moments that bring everyone together and make you feel
Speaker 1: that sense of purpose and passion and you know, feel
Speaker 1: alive essentially. And then you know there's also the personal life.
Speaker 1: You know, get married or have kids or who knows.
Speaker 1: But I think, yeah, there's so much that I still
Speaker 1: am yet to do. I realize I'm definitely in a
Speaker 1: space right now where I'm saying yes to so many
Speaker 1: new things and discovering new things. And yesterday I was
Speaker 1: in China, for example, just got back last night, so
Speaker 1: say yes to do a little race and discover China
Speaker 1: as well, and being open to all those new opportunities
Speaker 1: that come through, and not being tied down to a
Speaker 1: job just yet because previously I've always had to work
Speaker 1: part time and work full time when in Australia, part
Speaker 1: time overseas, full time at home, and I'd say no
Speaker 1: to so many things that would pop up because I
Speaker 1: couldn't move that meeting or because I had to be
Speaker 1: in the office. And so I'm also really enjoying this
Speaker 1: freedom that I have right now of just seeing what
Speaker 1: comes at me and being able to be free to.
Speaker 3: Say yes to things as well.
Speaker 2: When you think about happiness, what are your biggest challenges
Speaker 2: to it at the moment? Being where you are now,
Speaker 2: you've achieved something that is just unthinkable and must be
Speaker 2: you know, you must go to bed and be like,
Speaker 2: I still cannot believe I did that. What day to
Speaker 2: day challenges your happiness.
Speaker 1: I think it's understanding that happiness is very fleeting as well,
Speaker 1: and it's a work in progress, and it's you know,
Speaker 1: like a little muscle that you have to work out
Speaker 1: to ensure that it stays strong and that the baseline is,
Speaker 1: you know, naturally pretty high. And I think I've done
Speaker 1: a lot of work to make sure that that baseline
Speaker 1: is naturally pretty high. And it starts with a lot
Speaker 1: of you know, gratitude and reflection, and I think I
Speaker 1: just see the little perks of life. And compared to
Speaker 1: sometimes my teammates, I'm like, God, they're so moody, you know,
Speaker 1: like enjoy it. We're here, Like you know, whether I
Speaker 1: get my soic coffee in the morning and they've done
Speaker 1: a really cute design, like you know, that still brings
Speaker 1: me so much happiness as well. So it just because
Speaker 1: I've achieved this huge goal, like my things that make
Speaker 1: me happy. You haven't, you know, naturally gone up up
Speaker 1: to a super high standard. I think I love I
Speaker 1: travel so much that when I'm home, I love the
Speaker 1: mundane and I love the routine. I love, you know,
Speaker 1: seeing my dog, getting coffee with friends, doing a pilates
Speaker 1: class and being able to do it the next week
Speaker 1: on the same day. You know, that's stuff that I love.
Speaker 1: And then when I get to travel, it's the excitement
Speaker 1: of you know, going back overseas, traveling with my three
Speaker 1: kayaks and hitting people in the airport. You know, it's
Speaker 1: like there's there's joy in that. But you know, I think,
Speaker 1: like I said, it's it's a muscle that I know
Speaker 1: I need to exercise. And some days are really hard,
Speaker 1: and some days you don't understand why you're You're moody
Speaker 1: and it's not worth fighting, and it's okay. And sometimes,
Speaker 1: you know, hormones come into play as well, and sometimes
Speaker 1: the world just feels like it's crushing down. But it's
Speaker 1: knowing that there's always something to look forward to. And
Speaker 1: I do love, you know, goal setting. I've always loved
Speaker 1: goal setting. I've always had something to look forward to,
Speaker 1: and I think for me that's so important to always.
Speaker 3: Have a little goal.
Speaker 1: And now that my big goal is completed, there is
Speaker 1: a bit of you know, like, oh, now what like
Speaker 1: at the end of finding Nemo, you know, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I've still got things I'm really looking forward to,
Speaker 1: like you know, trail running rays and going to Christmas
Speaker 1: in France and going skiing, so things like that, and
Speaker 1: then knowing the World Championships at home next year. But
Speaker 1: I know that, you know, little goals definitely helped me,
Speaker 1: you know, keep happy, stay positive, whether it's in the gym,
Speaker 1: whether it's at home. Yeah, I think it's really a
Speaker 1: muscle that you have to keep on working. But knowing
Speaker 1: that life ebbs and flows, and there are some days
Speaker 1: that will and definitely are very challenging. But sometimes, you know,
Speaker 1: if I just hear that one song or get a
Speaker 1: pretty latte design, my mood can shift as well. So yeah,
Speaker 1: also having good people around you as well. Do you
Speaker 1: see the sports psychologist? Is that a thing that you
Speaker 1: do ongoing when you're an athlete or do you do
Speaker 1: it just when you're competing?
Speaker 3: It tries to be ongoing. I've ghosted sometimes, Yeah, I
Speaker 3: think we all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think I look back at the last
Speaker 1: two years and compared to say a gym coach or
Speaker 1: like a training coach, it is sometimes hard to feel
Speaker 1: like you're making progress.
Speaker 3: It's really hard to see that tangible progress.
Speaker 1: You know, in the gym, I can hit a PB
Speaker 1: in my weighted chin ups, you know, I can go
Speaker 1: from forty to forty five, and I'm like, wow, I'm
Speaker 1: making progress. I've got that tangible result. And then mentally,
Speaker 1: sometimes it's really hard to see that you've made progress
Speaker 1: because you might race on a bad day and everything
Speaker 1: comes crashing down as well. So I think, you know,
Speaker 1: I kind of always saw him because he's great to
Speaker 1: have a chat to.
Speaker 3: It helps me voice things.
Speaker 1: But I did it also because I had to do it,
Speaker 1: or because you know, he'd always be persistent and say
Speaker 1: let's catch up. So and I enjoyed his company as well,
Speaker 1: and I think that's made a big difference. It's having
Speaker 1: that sort of relationship with a psychologist where it doesn't
Speaker 1: feel clinical. It doesn't feel like every time you come
Speaker 1: you have to talk about your performance strategy, but it
Speaker 1: can be about you know, other things that might be
Speaker 1: affecting your performance. So but now I look back and
Speaker 1: I do think that there was such a huge improvement
Speaker 1: in my mental skills, my capacity to deal with stress,
Speaker 1: my capacity to you know, handle high pressure moments and
Speaker 1: perform under pressure and perform when it mattered, and to
Speaker 1: know that you know, I'd done the work and I
Speaker 1: can deliver my best really when it counts, when everyone's watching,
Speaker 1: when fifteen thousand people are watching, in the whole of
Speaker 1: Australia is watching.
Speaker 2: And we always end the podcast with one question. I
Speaker 2: think I know the answer, but right now, are you happy?
Speaker 1: I'm a bit jet lagged, I'm a bit tired, but
Speaker 1: I'm definitely happy. I think, you know, like I said,
Speaker 1: there's so much more to my life and my self
Speaker 1: worth now than just my sport. And when you achieve
Speaker 1: such a huge result like this and you've got that
Speaker 1: good sense of balance and you've got you know, that
Speaker 1: perspective and you seized all the opportunities, I think you
Speaker 1: can only be so proud of what you've achieved. And
Speaker 1: I think I'm lucky to be in a position now.
Speaker 1: I'm meeting so many different people that you know, liked
Speaker 1: the sport, watch the sport. That kind of really reminds
Speaker 1: me of the Olympics and how they watched it and
Speaker 1: that brings me so much happiness as well. And I'm
Speaker 1: also just so happy to be back in Australia and
Speaker 1: to enjoy you know, the summer that's coming up, and
Speaker 1: to be out on the water again. So yeah, I
Speaker 1: think generally I'm very happy. But you know, even after
Speaker 1: the Olympic Games, there were moments that.
Speaker 3: I thought I'd be happy, but I was just exhausted.
Speaker 1: And I was really tired, and I think I realized, wow,
Speaker 1: I'm not happy, But it doesn't mean that I won't
Speaker 1: be happy once I've recovered, and once I've taken the
Speaker 1: time to reflect and to stop and to celebrate and
Speaker 1: to you know, process and recover. Really, so yeah, I
Speaker 1: think I'm very proud of what I've achieved and grateful
Speaker 1: for you know, the mindset. Grateful for the opportunity to
Speaker 1: have been on the most successful Australian Olympic team, to
Speaker 1: have shared it with my sister, with my mom, with
Speaker 1: my dad, with my partner, and with everyone back home,
Speaker 1: and to be able to yeah, enjoy that success but
Speaker 1: also have things to look forward to inside an outside
Speaker 1: of the sport.
Speaker 2: Incredible. Well, thank you so much for your time today.
Speaker 2: Thank you for everything you've shared. I really appreciate it,
Speaker 2: and I really appreciate.
Speaker 3: Your vulnerability and openness. It means a lot.
Speaker 2: So thank you so much to no.
Speaker 1: No Amy, no Amy Box, thank you. Thanks.
Speaker 2: I want to say it in the French way, but
Speaker 2: I can't. That's all we've got time for on this
Speaker 2: special episode of But Are You Happy? I like to
Speaker 2: joke that I over relate to a lot of my
Speaker 2: guests when I actually do not have a lot of
Speaker 2: relatability to them, in that I am not an Olympic athlete,
Speaker 2: for example. But when I interviewed no Amy, I was
Speaker 2: personally in the final weeks of finishing my first novel,
Speaker 2: and I cannot tell you how much I loved the
Speaker 2: way she spoke about process and trusting the process. I
Speaker 2: feel like it's a phrase you hear so much from
Speaker 2: successful people who have achieved something incredible, and I often
Speaker 2: glaze over it. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, trust the process, whatever.
Speaker 2: But when I drilled down into what she meant and
Speaker 2: what that looked like to her, I had a real
Speaker 2: clarifying moment, and I spoke to her afterwards about the
Speaker 2: way she journaled throughout the Olympics, and I asked her
Speaker 2: questions about exactly how she did it, and she gave
Speaker 2: me examples of how she would hype herself up. And
Speaker 2: I started keeping a journal to keep me on track
Speaker 2: and keep myself motivated, and it was absolutely transformative. It's
Speaker 2: the single most embarrassing thing in the world. I hope
Speaker 2: no one ever sees it, but I think it's a
Speaker 2: practice that stops you from psyching yourself out. And in
Speaker 2: so many moments in life, it's mindset and not ability
Speaker 2: that's our greatest barrier, and that approach of really reminding
Speaker 2: yourself what the facts are, what your goal is, can
Speaker 2: be so powerful. The executive producer of But Are You Happy?
Speaker 2: Is Naima Brown, and the producer is Tarlie Blackman. Audio
Speaker 2: editing by Tom Lyon and I'm your host Claire Stevens.
Speaker 2: Will be back in your ears soon