1 00:00:08,234 --> 00:00:12,914 Speaker 1: You're listening to a mom and mea podcast. 2 00:00:14,194 --> 00:00:17,594 Speaker 2: Hi, Parenting out Louders, This is Stacy. Before we begin today, 3 00:00:17,634 --> 00:00:20,633 Speaker 2: we just wanted to acknowledge that today's episode was recorded 4 00:00:20,714 --> 00:00:24,074 Speaker 2: before the devastating events at Bondi. Our hearts are with 5 00:00:24,154 --> 00:00:26,874 Speaker 2: everyone affected and with all the families who are hurting 6 00:00:26,954 --> 00:00:29,554 Speaker 2: right now. We know so many parents will be listening 7 00:00:29,954 --> 00:00:32,153 Speaker 2: while holding a lot and we're thinking of you as 8 00:00:32,193 --> 00:00:35,314 Speaker 2: you listen. We hope this episode brings you some levity 9 00:00:35,473 --> 00:00:37,594 Speaker 2: and a bit of joy at such a difficult time. 10 00:00:37,994 --> 00:00:38,434 Speaker 1: Enjoy. 11 00:00:38,674 --> 00:00:39,994 Speaker 3: How does the theme music go? Again? 12 00:00:40,233 --> 00:00:44,714 Speaker 1: Bring prayer? That's exactly it. 13 00:00:45,314 --> 00:00:48,353 Speaker 3: Hello and welcome to Parenting out Loud, the podcast for 14 00:00:48,473 --> 00:00:51,554 Speaker 3: parents who don't always listen to parenting podcasts. We bring 15 00:00:51,593 --> 00:00:54,594 Speaker 3: you the news, the trends, culture, and what parents are 16 00:00:54,594 --> 00:00:56,674 Speaker 3: thinking about. I'm Monique Bowley. 17 00:00:56,754 --> 00:00:59,234 Speaker 1: I'm Amelia Lester, and I'm Stacy Hicks. 18 00:00:59,634 --> 00:01:03,273 Speaker 3: Ah Is everyone all right? We're so much The big day. 19 00:01:03,554 --> 00:01:06,514 Speaker 1: We say this podcast is what parents are thinking about. 20 00:01:06,594 --> 00:01:09,554 Speaker 1: Parents are about a lot right now. Yeah, there's a 21 00:01:09,594 --> 00:01:12,154 Speaker 1: lot to think about. Hanging by a thread. 22 00:01:12,674 --> 00:01:15,274 Speaker 3: Yeah, So coming up on today's show, at some point 23 00:01:15,274 --> 00:01:18,274 Speaker 3: in the next five days, a relative is going to 24 00:01:18,354 --> 00:01:22,394 Speaker 3: ask your kid for a hug or a kiss, and 25 00:01:22,474 --> 00:01:26,634 Speaker 3: that tiny moment is a new parenting mind field. Welcome 26 00:01:26,834 --> 00:01:29,114 Speaker 3: to grandparenting on eggshells. 27 00:01:29,354 --> 00:01:32,994 Speaker 1: I've got a pressing investigation to make. Where did all 28 00:01:33,074 --> 00:01:36,394 Speaker 1: the weird kids go? Signed a weird kid? 29 00:01:37,114 --> 00:01:39,754 Speaker 2: And Mon's and Amelia have both sent their kids off 30 00:01:39,754 --> 00:01:42,274 Speaker 2: on errands this week, so I want to know. 31 00:01:42,634 --> 00:01:44,394 Speaker 1: Is this the new parenting flex? 32 00:01:44,994 --> 00:01:47,594 Speaker 3: Yes it is, But first, Stacy, what's gone off on 33 00:01:47,634 --> 00:01:48,194 Speaker 3: the internet. 34 00:01:48,474 --> 00:01:50,994 Speaker 2: Did you guys have a list of baby names, like 35 00:01:51,114 --> 00:01:52,434 Speaker 2: even before you had kids? 36 00:01:52,634 --> 00:01:54,674 Speaker 1: I had one in my notes at what did you 37 00:01:54,674 --> 00:01:56,874 Speaker 1: want to call your kid before you had a cad? Oh? 38 00:01:57,074 --> 00:02:00,634 Speaker 2: So many things with so many syllables, like long names 39 00:02:00,754 --> 00:02:03,994 Speaker 2: like Savannah and Arabella, and I went for a four 40 00:02:04,074 --> 00:02:04,554 Speaker 2: letter name. 41 00:02:05,114 --> 00:02:08,434 Speaker 1: I just didn't have any names. It's hard to name children. 42 00:02:08,474 --> 00:02:09,194 Speaker 1: It is hard. 43 00:02:09,234 --> 00:02:11,834 Speaker 2: Well, I actually found the list made it harder because 44 00:02:11,874 --> 00:02:14,034 Speaker 2: then I had about twenty options I liked, and then 45 00:02:14,073 --> 00:02:16,754 Speaker 2: I just was like, this blob doesn't. 46 00:02:16,434 --> 00:02:18,874 Speaker 1: Suit any of these names. How do I choose one? 47 00:02:19,234 --> 00:02:21,234 Speaker 2: That is why I have a lot of sympathy for 48 00:02:21,274 --> 00:02:23,314 Speaker 2: this woman who is doing the rounds on the internet 49 00:02:23,314 --> 00:02:26,354 Speaker 2: this week, named Kate, who admitted that she changed her 50 00:02:26,394 --> 00:02:31,834 Speaker 2: baby's name fourteen times before, she said, like, legally changed 51 00:02:31,834 --> 00:02:35,274 Speaker 2: her name the baby's name fourteen times before she landed 52 00:02:35,274 --> 00:02:37,794 Speaker 2: on one at about five months old. So she went 53 00:02:37,834 --> 00:02:40,514 Speaker 2: with Margaret first lovely name because it was like a 54 00:02:40,594 --> 00:02:43,354 Speaker 2: family name. They said they didn't really love it, but 55 00:02:43,394 --> 00:02:45,754 Speaker 2: they thought it would grow on them. Clearly it didn't. 56 00:02:46,274 --> 00:02:48,514 Speaker 2: Next was Wenonah. I think they were taking a lot 57 00:02:48,514 --> 00:02:53,154 Speaker 2: of like actress names, Margo, Midge, Molly, just kept going 58 00:02:53,194 --> 00:02:56,874 Speaker 2: and going and going until they finally landed on Laurel I. 59 00:02:57,634 --> 00:02:59,434 Speaker 2: And so she filmed a video and put it on 60 00:02:59,434 --> 00:03:01,874 Speaker 2: the internet saying my baby's name is Laurel I. And 61 00:03:01,914 --> 00:03:03,554 Speaker 2: I think it was probably just so that she had 62 00:03:03,594 --> 00:03:04,754 Speaker 2: no choice but to stick with it. 63 00:03:04,834 --> 00:03:06,834 Speaker 1: Mons you don't approve of this, I bet because you're 64 00:03:06,834 --> 00:03:08,074 Speaker 1: a very organized person. 65 00:03:08,314 --> 00:03:11,554 Speaker 3: No, it took me five days to name one of 66 00:03:11,634 --> 00:03:14,194 Speaker 3: my babies, to the point where everyone, all the midwives 67 00:03:14,194 --> 00:03:16,594 Speaker 3: started like kind of running asweep on what they thought 68 00:03:16,634 --> 00:03:18,194 Speaker 3: it would be, and that kind of a level of 69 00:03:18,234 --> 00:03:20,874 Speaker 3: pressure that I didn't appreciate. And then when we chose 70 00:03:20,874 --> 00:03:23,073 Speaker 3: the name, I could see the disappointment in their eyes 71 00:03:23,154 --> 00:03:26,834 Speaker 3: when they didn't win the sweep. So sorry, all those Midwives. 72 00:03:27,074 --> 00:03:32,674 Speaker 3: I saw this story and I thought, somebody needs to 73 00:03:32,714 --> 00:03:35,434 Speaker 3: hold this baby so this mom can sleep like she 74 00:03:36,634 --> 00:03:42,194 Speaker 3: sleep deprivation talking. This is wild anxiety spiral. Somebody get 75 00:03:42,234 --> 00:03:44,954 Speaker 3: this woman a night in a hotel without the baby. 76 00:03:45,194 --> 00:03:47,354 Speaker 2: Yeah, or she just needed a notes up list like 77 00:03:47,514 --> 00:03:49,234 Speaker 2: I did, so she could have just picked one and 78 00:03:49,274 --> 00:03:49,954 Speaker 2: be done with it. 79 00:03:50,154 --> 00:03:51,674 Speaker 3: Do you think that baby's now always going to be 80 00:03:51,674 --> 00:03:54,834 Speaker 3: tird with like, Oh, that's Laurell whose parents couldn't decide 81 00:03:54,914 --> 00:03:57,674 Speaker 3: what she was called. Is that it xiety for Laurele? I? 82 00:03:57,674 --> 00:03:58,154 Speaker 1: I think so. 83 00:03:58,914 --> 00:04:01,514 Speaker 2: Her mum did admit that she got it from Gilmore Girls, 84 00:04:01,554 --> 00:04:02,594 Speaker 2: like she just I think. 85 00:04:02,474 --> 00:04:04,674 Speaker 1: She was just so tired. She was just watching her 86 00:04:04,674 --> 00:04:06,794 Speaker 1: comfort show and was like, enough is enough. I'll go 87 00:04:06,834 --> 00:04:08,874 Speaker 1: with that. The thing I have to be honest about 88 00:04:08,994 --> 00:04:11,794 Speaker 1: is that I think girl names are so much easier 89 00:04:11,794 --> 00:04:12,514 Speaker 1: than boy names. 90 00:04:12,514 --> 00:04:16,554 Speaker 2: They are so but maybe there was too many options, 91 00:04:16,993 --> 00:04:19,794 Speaker 2: Like that's probably what it was. She had a boy, 92 00:04:19,954 --> 00:04:22,194 Speaker 2: she probably just would have called it like Adam and 93 00:04:22,354 --> 00:04:27,073 Speaker 2: moved on, or probably Luke from Gemore Girls Girls. 94 00:04:27,354 --> 00:04:30,954 Speaker 3: It's almost Christmas, the time when extended families are going 95 00:04:30,993 --> 00:04:34,474 Speaker 3: to converge, and at some point someone might ask your 96 00:04:34,553 --> 00:04:37,794 Speaker 3: kids for a hug. It might be a grandma, it 97 00:04:37,914 --> 00:04:40,153 Speaker 3: might be an uncle that they see once a year, 98 00:04:41,274 --> 00:04:48,354 Speaker 3: simple right, no, no, no no, Because a lot of 99 00:04:48,393 --> 00:04:51,354 Speaker 3: parents now teach their kids that they don't have to 100 00:04:51,433 --> 00:04:55,034 Speaker 3: hug anyone, and they don't owe anyone a hug. And 101 00:04:55,073 --> 00:04:56,794 Speaker 3: that's what I want to talk about, because there's this 102 00:04:56,873 --> 00:05:01,914 Speaker 3: Atlantic piece doing the rounds called Grandparenting on Eggshells. 103 00:05:01,073 --> 00:05:02,113 Speaker 1: Such a good headline. 104 00:05:02,193 --> 00:05:05,953 Speaker 3: It's about this tension how parents today want to instill 105 00:05:06,034 --> 00:05:08,634 Speaker 3: in their kids, this cent of agency, and it's all 106 00:05:08,714 --> 00:05:13,753 Speaker 3: bodily autonomy and consent and letting kids choose to show 107 00:05:13,794 --> 00:05:18,434 Speaker 3: affection on their own terms. But because of that, grandparents 108 00:05:18,474 --> 00:05:21,354 Speaker 3: can feel really rejected. And the article goes on to 109 00:05:21,354 --> 00:05:25,073 Speaker 3: say how grandparents don't understand these new rules of modern parenting. 110 00:05:25,154 --> 00:05:27,834 Speaker 3: And they raised kids in this era where there were 111 00:05:27,834 --> 00:05:32,034 Speaker 3: two rules one keep them alive, to feed them occasionally, 112 00:05:32,313 --> 00:05:35,914 Speaker 3: and now this list is endless. There's screen time rules, 113 00:05:35,953 --> 00:05:40,113 Speaker 3: sugar rules, BPA, plastics to think about, emotional regulation, validation, 114 00:05:40,274 --> 00:05:41,714 Speaker 3: body autonomy. 115 00:05:41,393 --> 00:05:41,993 Speaker 1: No hugs. 116 00:05:42,354 --> 00:05:45,153 Speaker 3: It's very, very different. So I want to throw this 117 00:05:45,234 --> 00:05:47,914 Speaker 3: out to both of you. What do you think and 118 00:05:47,993 --> 00:05:49,113 Speaker 3: have you seen this play out? 119 00:05:49,313 --> 00:05:51,753 Speaker 1: I feel so conflicted about this, And the first thing 120 00:05:51,794 --> 00:05:54,314 Speaker 1: I wanted to say is that it's not just grandparents 121 00:05:54,354 --> 00:05:58,073 Speaker 1: dealing with this. I had to have lunch earlier this 122 00:05:58,193 --> 00:06:02,713 Speaker 1: week with an important work contact, and I'd met this man, 123 00:06:03,274 --> 00:06:06,593 Speaker 1: this older man once before. This was the second time 124 00:06:06,594 --> 00:06:09,194 Speaker 1: I was meeting and we met for lunch. I had 125 00:06:09,633 --> 00:06:12,633 Speaker 1: no idea how we were meant to greet each other, 126 00:06:12,834 --> 00:06:15,753 Speaker 1: like none. Was it a hug, was it a single kiss? 127 00:06:15,914 --> 00:06:17,993 Speaker 1: Was it a double kiss? Was it a triple kiss? 128 00:06:17,993 --> 00:06:20,914 Speaker 1: He might have been European? Was it a just a handshake? 129 00:06:21,154 --> 00:06:24,594 Speaker 1: I was filled with anxiety about it. So the first 130 00:06:24,594 --> 00:06:26,873 Speaker 1: thing I want to say is grandparents, You're not the 131 00:06:26,873 --> 00:06:29,354 Speaker 1: only ones on eggshells. Yeah. I feel like all the 132 00:06:29,433 --> 00:06:32,433 Speaker 1: rules of human interaction and how you greet people were 133 00:06:32,474 --> 00:06:35,073 Speaker 1: throwing out the window during COVID and we never got 134 00:06:35,113 --> 00:06:38,313 Speaker 1: back to an agreed set of understandings. 135 00:06:38,594 --> 00:06:40,713 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, so we just need to make up a 136 00:06:40,834 --> 00:06:43,274 Speaker 2: rule for it. Do you point one saying if we've 137 00:06:43,274 --> 00:06:46,553 Speaker 2: seen this play out? Yes, like you see this all 138 00:06:46,594 --> 00:06:48,794 Speaker 2: the time, and it is such an awkward thing because 139 00:06:49,193 --> 00:06:51,873 Speaker 2: the parent wants to make sure that the grandparent gets 140 00:06:51,914 --> 00:06:55,473 Speaker 2: what they're expecting from grandchildren. You know, They've got this 141 00:06:55,513 --> 00:06:58,034 Speaker 2: image in their mind of what that relationship will be like, 142 00:06:58,154 --> 00:07:00,794 Speaker 2: and that's lovely, and in an ideal world, your child 143 00:07:00,794 --> 00:07:02,514 Speaker 2: would be very willing to go up and give them 144 00:07:02,513 --> 00:07:04,593 Speaker 2: a hug. But that's not always the case, and so 145 00:07:04,594 --> 00:07:07,113 Speaker 2: you're trying to respect what your child wants as well. 146 00:07:07,513 --> 00:07:10,874 Speaker 2: And it's that differing of expectations that makes it such 147 00:07:11,314 --> 00:07:14,593 Speaker 2: a mind field, right, And I think it's probably something 148 00:07:14,594 --> 00:07:17,434 Speaker 2: to do with time working against us, Like don't you 149 00:07:17,554 --> 00:07:20,754 Speaker 2: find for grandparents, they've got the rose colored glasses, kind 150 00:07:20,754 --> 00:07:22,713 Speaker 2: of like what you have after you give birth, and 151 00:07:22,754 --> 00:07:24,754 Speaker 2: it kind of goes fuzzy in your memory so that 152 00:07:24,874 --> 00:07:27,634 Speaker 2: you'll have a chance of going back and doing it again. 153 00:07:27,674 --> 00:07:30,074 Speaker 2: You don't really remember how hard it was, or the 154 00:07:30,074 --> 00:07:32,713 Speaker 2: tantrums or the whatever. And it feels like this is 155 00:07:32,714 --> 00:07:35,834 Speaker 2: the same. They're remembering an idealized version of what you 156 00:07:35,874 --> 00:07:38,074 Speaker 2: were like as a kid. So they'll say, oh, you 157 00:07:38,154 --> 00:07:40,473 Speaker 2: never had tantrums and you were always very polite and 158 00:07:40,514 --> 00:07:43,033 Speaker 2: you did the right thing. That's probably not the reality, 159 00:07:43,194 --> 00:07:45,593 Speaker 2: but that's what they're expecting of their grandkids, so it 160 00:07:45,594 --> 00:07:46,514 Speaker 2: gets so awkward. 161 00:07:47,034 --> 00:07:49,114 Speaker 3: I think there is this grief element to it, where 162 00:07:49,194 --> 00:07:52,514 Speaker 3: as you say Stacy. Grandparents are often imagining the relationship 163 00:07:52,714 --> 00:07:56,953 Speaker 3: they'll have with their grandchildren, and that is kids running 164 00:07:56,953 --> 00:08:01,754 Speaker 3: into their arms, big squeezes, sitting on laps, and when 165 00:08:01,834 --> 00:08:05,714 Speaker 3: reality doesn't match that, it can feel a bit hurthful 166 00:08:05,953 --> 00:08:06,874 Speaker 3: or a bit of a loss. 167 00:08:07,393 --> 00:08:09,714 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that if you step back and 168 00:08:09,754 --> 00:08:13,554 Speaker 1: you ask why is this coming up now? I think 169 00:08:13,554 --> 00:08:15,594 Speaker 1: it has to do with the fact that we are 170 00:08:15,674 --> 00:08:20,194 Speaker 1: validating children's feelings an agency more than we used to. 171 00:08:20,354 --> 00:08:22,713 Speaker 1: So doctor Becky, who we've talked about on this show, 172 00:08:22,754 --> 00:08:25,314 Speaker 1: who's kind of I guess you call it the avatar 173 00:08:25,434 --> 00:08:29,474 Speaker 1: of gentle parenting. She has talked about the fact that 174 00:08:29,554 --> 00:08:32,713 Speaker 1: connection and love do not require you to ignore your 175 00:08:32,714 --> 00:08:35,514 Speaker 1: own needs. She's quoted in the Atlantic article as saying that. 176 00:08:36,114 --> 00:08:37,954 Speaker 1: And I think that's what it comes down to and 177 00:08:38,034 --> 00:08:41,554 Speaker 1: why there's this big disconnect there, because we're asking children 178 00:08:41,594 --> 00:08:45,234 Speaker 1: now to practice giving consent as children so that they 179 00:08:45,234 --> 00:08:48,594 Speaker 1: can ideally then use that in more contentious situations as 180 00:08:48,594 --> 00:08:52,474 Speaker 1: they grow up. But the grandparents are saying, what about 181 00:08:52,474 --> 00:08:55,714 Speaker 1: my feelings? How about my need to connect with this child? 182 00:08:55,794 --> 00:08:57,914 Speaker 1: And the only way that I understand how, which is 183 00:08:57,954 --> 00:09:00,154 Speaker 1: through a hug. And so that's why it's leading to 184 00:09:00,194 --> 00:09:03,634 Speaker 1: these really tricky situations, and I can honestly see it 185 00:09:03,634 --> 00:09:05,634 Speaker 1: from both sides. I get that it's important that we 186 00:09:05,674 --> 00:09:08,514 Speaker 1: have to teach children about consent, but I also get 187 00:09:08,554 --> 00:09:11,434 Speaker 1: that grandparents, you know, they just want to be able 188 00:09:11,514 --> 00:09:14,914 Speaker 1: to feel special and connected to their grandkids. I feel 189 00:09:14,994 --> 00:09:17,274 Speaker 1: really torn about it. Mot that's what do you think. 190 00:09:18,034 --> 00:09:21,394 Speaker 3: I think that there's also this part of it, that's 191 00:09:21,514 --> 00:09:24,754 Speaker 3: unspoken part of it, where this modern parenting, the way 192 00:09:24,754 --> 00:09:27,194 Speaker 3: we parent in modern times, makes you look a bit 193 00:09:27,314 --> 00:09:31,074 Speaker 3: unhinged to older generations. And I think the part that 194 00:09:31,194 --> 00:09:34,473 Speaker 3: I grapple with is that this gets even more complicated 195 00:09:34,554 --> 00:09:38,114 Speaker 3: when your child is neurodivergent. So kids with ASD can 196 00:09:38,154 --> 00:09:41,874 Speaker 3: have a lot of difficulty with greetings and with social skills, 197 00:09:42,314 --> 00:09:45,034 Speaker 3: and to an older generation that can come off as 198 00:09:45,154 --> 00:09:49,314 Speaker 3: really rude. So there is not just a generational clash here, 199 00:09:49,354 --> 00:09:54,034 Speaker 3: there's also this neurotypical neurodiversion clash. When your child is 200 00:09:54,234 --> 00:09:58,754 Speaker 3: ASD and doesn't cope with greetings or with social skills, 201 00:09:58,794 --> 00:10:01,874 Speaker 3: you're not just dealing with them, You're also dealing with 202 00:10:01,914 --> 00:10:05,394 Speaker 3: everyone else's perception of your parenting. So you get judged twice. 203 00:10:05,474 --> 00:10:08,434 Speaker 3: You get judged for their behavi yeah, being rude, and 204 00:10:08,474 --> 00:10:11,434 Speaker 3: then you get judged for the boundaries that are meant 205 00:10:11,474 --> 00:10:15,754 Speaker 3: to support them. So if you say, Jimmy, you can 206 00:10:15,914 --> 00:10:20,514 Speaker 3: high five or you can wave, you can almost feel 207 00:10:20,554 --> 00:10:23,314 Speaker 3: people thinking, oh, she's one of those parents. She's one 208 00:10:23,354 --> 00:10:26,474 Speaker 3: of those unhinged helicopter parents, or you know, a god, 209 00:10:26,514 --> 00:10:28,194 Speaker 3: look at her. She can't even teach basic manage to 210 00:10:28,194 --> 00:10:30,434 Speaker 3: her kids. That's the part I hate. 211 00:10:30,794 --> 00:10:34,074 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's hard because the grandparents are born in 212 00:10:34,074 --> 00:10:36,834 Speaker 2: that generation where it was like, you do as you're told. 213 00:10:36,954 --> 00:10:39,674 Speaker 2: There was no two ways about it, and so they 214 00:10:39,714 --> 00:10:42,154 Speaker 2: expect the same from our kids, that they'll fall into 215 00:10:42,194 --> 00:10:45,034 Speaker 2: line and do exactly what you're saying. And it's hard 216 00:10:45,074 --> 00:10:48,154 Speaker 2: to explain it without it sounding really ridiculous, Like I 217 00:10:48,194 --> 00:10:50,954 Speaker 2: think a lot of older generations look at that and go, oh, 218 00:10:51,034 --> 00:10:53,754 Speaker 2: come on, oh totally. When you explain to them that 219 00:10:53,794 --> 00:10:55,914 Speaker 2: it's for body safety and that you're wanting to make 220 00:10:55,954 --> 00:10:58,434 Speaker 2: sure that they feel like their bodies are, they go 221 00:10:58,674 --> 00:11:01,034 Speaker 2: give me a break, like, that's not what this is. 222 00:11:01,114 --> 00:11:03,954 Speaker 2: I'm their grandparent, I'm someone who loves them, but I 223 00:11:04,034 --> 00:11:06,154 Speaker 2: love In that article, there was a quote from a 224 00:11:06,194 --> 00:11:10,074 Speaker 2: psychologist and she would the former Girl Scouts executive, and 225 00:11:10,114 --> 00:11:12,634 Speaker 2: she has a way of explaining it that they say 226 00:11:12,794 --> 00:11:15,394 Speaker 2: to people. So she said, telling your child that she 227 00:11:15,474 --> 00:11:17,874 Speaker 2: owes someone a hug, either because she hasn't seen that 228 00:11:17,914 --> 00:11:20,474 Speaker 2: person in a while or because they gave her a gift, 229 00:11:20,874 --> 00:11:23,434 Speaker 2: can set the stage for her questioning whether she owes 230 00:11:23,754 --> 00:11:25,274 Speaker 2: any person of any. 231 00:11:25,074 --> 00:11:26,194 Speaker 1: Type physical affection. 232 00:11:26,914 --> 00:11:28,474 Speaker 2: So I think it's a good way of saying it 233 00:11:28,554 --> 00:11:32,234 Speaker 2: is a slippery slope then into them feeling like pressured, 234 00:11:32,354 --> 00:11:34,674 Speaker 2: and that's where the tension is, right, is it? 235 00:11:34,954 --> 00:11:35,354 Speaker 1: That's it? 236 00:11:35,514 --> 00:11:35,634 Speaker 2: That? 237 00:11:35,794 --> 00:11:38,754 Speaker 1: Like, I really get that, and the culture that grandparents 238 00:11:38,834 --> 00:11:41,994 Speaker 1: grew up in swept all sorts of issues to do 239 00:11:42,074 --> 00:11:47,314 Speaker 1: with bodily autonomy under the rug, including the institutionalized epidemic 240 00:11:47,474 --> 00:11:51,194 Speaker 1: of sexual assaults in institutions which really should have been 241 00:11:51,234 --> 00:11:55,234 Speaker 1: able to hold themselves accountable better. But on the other hand, 242 00:11:55,914 --> 00:11:59,794 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about this really poignant scene in the recent 243 00:11:59,834 --> 00:12:02,874 Speaker 1: Bruce Springsteen biopic, which I went to see because Jeremy 244 00:12:02,874 --> 00:12:05,594 Speaker 1: Allen White wasn't it and he's my favorite actor. What 245 00:12:05,834 --> 00:12:08,554 Speaker 1: happens in that movie is that he has this Bruce 246 00:12:08,554 --> 00:12:11,674 Speaker 1: Springsteen had a very contentious relationship with his father and 247 00:12:11,714 --> 00:12:15,474 Speaker 1: when his father is essentially on his deathbed. Bruce Springsteen 248 00:12:15,554 --> 00:12:17,994 Speaker 1: aka Jeremy Allen White comes to see him, and his 249 00:12:18,034 --> 00:12:21,514 Speaker 1: father says, can you please sit on my lap? And 250 00:12:21,594 --> 00:12:24,833 Speaker 1: so this fully grown man goes and sits on his 251 00:12:24,994 --> 00:12:28,154 Speaker 1: dying father's lap. And I was just sobbing in the 252 00:12:28,194 --> 00:12:32,314 Speaker 1: movie theater because we cannot deny that that kind of connection, 253 00:12:32,474 --> 00:12:36,354 Speaker 1: particularly for older adults who are often starved of physical 254 00:12:36,434 --> 00:12:39,274 Speaker 1: touch from other people, can be really meaningful for them. 255 00:12:39,314 --> 00:12:40,754 Speaker 1: I don't want to diminish that. 256 00:12:40,914 --> 00:12:42,914 Speaker 2: No, And they did say that in the article as well. 257 00:12:42,914 --> 00:12:44,954 Speaker 2: They were like, there is a point where this goes 258 00:12:44,994 --> 00:12:47,394 Speaker 2: too far. If you're constantly saying to your child, are 259 00:12:47,434 --> 00:12:48,834 Speaker 2: you sure you want to hug them? 260 00:12:48,874 --> 00:12:49,034 Speaker 1: Now? 261 00:12:49,114 --> 00:12:51,674 Speaker 2: Are you sure you have to feel comfortable? Then you're 262 00:12:51,714 --> 00:12:54,034 Speaker 2: making them worried about something that might just feel quite 263 00:12:54,034 --> 00:12:56,314 Speaker 2: instinctual and natural to them. They might not have a 264 00:12:56,314 --> 00:12:58,874 Speaker 2: problem with doing that at all. So it's like, you've 265 00:12:58,874 --> 00:13:01,314 Speaker 2: got to find this balance between that so that you're 266 00:13:01,354 --> 00:13:04,634 Speaker 2: not creating something out of something that's not there for them. 267 00:13:04,754 --> 00:13:06,834 Speaker 3: It's also not to say that they won't hug them 268 00:13:06,834 --> 00:13:09,594 Speaker 3: at all, Like sometimes it just takes time for a 269 00:13:09,674 --> 00:13:12,514 Speaker 3: kid to warm up, and some of the experts say, 270 00:13:12,594 --> 00:13:15,634 Speaker 3: you've just got to prep both sides, which feels really 271 00:13:15,674 --> 00:13:17,754 Speaker 3: tiring and feels like a part time job. But you 272 00:13:17,754 --> 00:13:20,394 Speaker 3: say to the kid, hey, you can weigh fist bumps, 273 00:13:20,394 --> 00:13:22,074 Speaker 3: say hi, whatever you want. And then you say to 274 00:13:22,074 --> 00:13:24,394 Speaker 3: the grandparent, hey, they just are going to need some 275 00:13:24,434 --> 00:13:26,754 Speaker 3: time to warm up. Trust me, they will come to you. 276 00:13:26,914 --> 00:13:27,394 Speaker 3: And they do. 277 00:13:27,914 --> 00:13:30,274 Speaker 1: Yeah. There's a lovely quote in the article from a 278 00:13:30,314 --> 00:13:34,074 Speaker 1: psychologist who says, the good thing about this new system 279 00:13:34,634 --> 00:13:37,594 Speaker 1: is that if a kid does hug their grandparent, it's 280 00:13:37,634 --> 00:13:41,314 Speaker 1: because they really want to be How meaningful is that? Yeah? 281 00:13:41,394 --> 00:13:45,474 Speaker 1: So much better. Okay, I have a theory, and it's 282 00:13:45,514 --> 00:13:48,794 Speaker 1: about how as our physical world has gotten more boring, 283 00:13:49,194 --> 00:13:52,394 Speaker 1: people themselves have become more dull and monochrome too. 284 00:13:52,594 --> 00:13:56,554 Speaker 2: Excuse me, I am in a lovely, jaunty green struct 285 00:13:56,554 --> 00:13:57,674 Speaker 2: shirt today which. 286 00:13:57,514 --> 00:14:01,194 Speaker 1: Everyone in the office owns. Yeah, okay, you make your point. 287 00:14:01,274 --> 00:14:03,674 Speaker 1: That is true. There's at least ten other people wearing 288 00:14:03,674 --> 00:14:07,674 Speaker 1: the shirt. So you see this most obviously in k stuff. 289 00:14:07,714 --> 00:14:10,074 Speaker 1: And that's I guess the excuse under which I bring 290 00:14:10,074 --> 00:14:12,394 Speaker 1: it to you today. You've got the sad beige clothes 291 00:14:12,394 --> 00:14:14,474 Speaker 1: for kids that we've talked about on this show. It's 292 00:14:14,474 --> 00:14:17,474 Speaker 1: a real phenomenon. We used to dress kids. My favorite 293 00:14:17,474 --> 00:14:20,234 Speaker 1: item of clothing growing up was a ken done tracksuit 294 00:14:20,634 --> 00:14:23,874 Speaker 1: matching top and bottom in the brightest blues of the 295 00:14:23,874 --> 00:14:27,394 Speaker 1: Sydney Harbor Bridge and surrounds, and I just loved it. 296 00:14:27,434 --> 00:14:30,274 Speaker 1: And now nurseries are running to fifty shades of oatmeal, 297 00:14:30,394 --> 00:14:33,074 Speaker 1: and even McDonald's. Look at McDonald's. It used to be 298 00:14:33,154 --> 00:14:36,994 Speaker 1: this colorful McDonald's acid Trip, and now it looks like 299 00:14:37,154 --> 00:14:40,234 Speaker 1: it's she it's sheep. It's more tragic than that. 300 00:14:40,314 --> 00:14:44,434 Speaker 3: McDonald's used to be grimace and ham burglar, and now 301 00:14:44,434 --> 00:14:45,834 Speaker 3: it's just McCafe. 302 00:14:45,954 --> 00:14:48,034 Speaker 1: Now it's just all this slate gray. It looks like, 303 00:14:48,154 --> 00:14:50,554 Speaker 1: you know, a new block of units. But this isn't 304 00:14:50,594 --> 00:14:53,714 Speaker 1: just restricted to kids stuff. It's a real documented phenomenon 305 00:14:53,714 --> 00:14:56,554 Speaker 1: that everything is starting to look the same tasteful, boring 306 00:14:56,634 --> 00:15:00,034 Speaker 1: shade of beige. So you've got this phenomenon whereby Airbnb's 307 00:15:00,114 --> 00:15:02,834 Speaker 1: all look exactly the same. There's like this look that 308 00:15:02,874 --> 00:15:07,554 Speaker 1: Airbnbs have, cafes world wide look exactly the same. Most 309 00:15:07,634 --> 00:15:11,194 Speaker 1: cars now are black and silver and gray and white, 310 00:15:11,314 --> 00:15:13,754 Speaker 1: rather than all the crazy colors like when I was 311 00:15:13,754 --> 00:15:16,594 Speaker 1: growing up. We had a holden that I think was 312 00:15:16,634 --> 00:15:20,794 Speaker 1: the shade I would describe as aquamarine, and I bloody 313 00:15:21,274 --> 00:15:23,914 Speaker 1: loved that car. I was so proud of it. My 314 00:15:23,954 --> 00:15:27,194 Speaker 1: parents at school would be like, check out the aquamarine wheels. 315 00:15:27,474 --> 00:15:30,794 Speaker 1: I have an aquamarine car. Oh yeah, you stay. 316 00:15:31,154 --> 00:15:33,394 Speaker 2: It's banged off on about every single site, but it 317 00:15:33,514 --> 00:15:35,914 Speaker 2: is aqua blue and it does stick. 318 00:15:35,674 --> 00:15:38,834 Speaker 1: Out like a sore thum. Right, everything is silver, black 319 00:15:38,834 --> 00:15:42,074 Speaker 1: and white. Not good. If you ever do a bank robbery. No, no, 320 00:15:42,154 --> 00:15:45,434 Speaker 1: it's not a getaway card. That's excellent. And even brand 321 00:15:45,474 --> 00:15:47,754 Speaker 1: logos look the same. Now they've all got the capital 322 00:15:47,834 --> 00:15:51,154 Speaker 1: letters in the very tasteful sound serahfon and I want 323 00:15:51,194 --> 00:15:54,114 Speaker 1: to say enough. So there's this subsett called the Decline 324 00:15:54,114 --> 00:15:57,034 Speaker 1: of Deviance, which tries to figure out basically why this is. 325 00:15:57,074 --> 00:15:59,954 Speaker 1: I'm going to explain that to you, but first I 326 00:16:00,074 --> 00:16:03,234 Speaker 1: wanted to see whether or not you think that this 327 00:16:03,514 --> 00:16:08,074 Speaker 1: aesthetic trend towards boringness and conformity is something that we 328 00:16:08,114 --> 00:16:10,594 Speaker 1: need to be on the alert for in raising kids. 329 00:16:10,634 --> 00:16:12,674 Speaker 1: We don't want our kids to be conformists. 330 00:16:13,154 --> 00:16:16,154 Speaker 3: Yes, this is fascinating and true. And when you sent 331 00:16:16,234 --> 00:16:19,314 Speaker 3: this to me, I had that great moment where it 332 00:16:19,354 --> 00:16:23,034 Speaker 3: put words around something I had never realized or seen before. 333 00:16:23,074 --> 00:16:26,274 Speaker 3: And now that you've talked about it, I see it everywhere. 334 00:16:26,394 --> 00:16:31,674 Speaker 3: Everything is very aesthetically pleasing and bland, as you say, 335 00:16:31,834 --> 00:16:32,954 Speaker 3: very very same same. 336 00:16:33,394 --> 00:16:36,114 Speaker 1: And does that mean that we're raising kids to be bland? 337 00:16:36,194 --> 00:16:38,994 Speaker 1: Because I'm worried that what the knock on effects of 338 00:16:39,034 --> 00:16:41,594 Speaker 1: that are is that there are no more weird kids. 339 00:16:41,634 --> 00:16:43,594 Speaker 1: Like growing up, there were weird kids at my school. 340 00:16:43,594 --> 00:16:45,914 Speaker 1: There was the kid who wore the cape. Everywhere, there 341 00:16:45,994 --> 00:16:48,194 Speaker 1: was the kid who wore the tie. Die. Are we 342 00:16:48,354 --> 00:16:51,434 Speaker 1: losing that sense of eccentricity and young people? 343 00:16:51,634 --> 00:16:53,674 Speaker 2: It does feel a bit like that now, like that 344 00:16:53,714 --> 00:16:57,434 Speaker 2: the curriculum has overtaken everything else that schooling is meant 345 00:16:57,474 --> 00:16:59,874 Speaker 2: to be about. Like it's the second that you kind 346 00:16:59,914 --> 00:17:02,234 Speaker 2: of don't fit into this box or that box, or 347 00:17:02,234 --> 00:17:05,154 Speaker 2: you're not meeting that milestone. It's kind of like, oh, 348 00:17:05,194 --> 00:17:07,553 Speaker 2: what can we do to get them back into that box? 349 00:17:07,674 --> 00:17:09,313 Speaker 1: And that's what at least it feels like. 350 00:17:09,354 --> 00:17:11,794 Speaker 2: And I spoke to a brilliant teacher friend of mine 351 00:17:11,794 --> 00:17:13,354 Speaker 2: and she was saying that, she said, you need to 352 00:17:13,394 --> 00:17:16,434 Speaker 2: not worry so much about the boxers that's what the 353 00:17:16,474 --> 00:17:18,793 Speaker 2: school's doing to make sure that they meet that. But 354 00:17:18,874 --> 00:17:22,714 Speaker 2: you need to nurture your child's weirdness, nurture their interests, 355 00:17:22,754 --> 00:17:25,194 Speaker 2: like be looking at the things that they're obsessed with 356 00:17:25,314 --> 00:17:27,194 Speaker 2: and just lean right into it, even if it's not 357 00:17:27,234 --> 00:17:29,914 Speaker 2: something that you think is useful for them in the 358 00:17:29,954 --> 00:17:30,714 Speaker 2: long term. 359 00:17:31,074 --> 00:17:33,794 Speaker 1: What you're saying is if they love to collect rocks, yeah, 360 00:17:33,914 --> 00:17:34,954 Speaker 1: paint them with the keys. 361 00:17:35,674 --> 00:17:37,994 Speaker 2: Yes, so merely it just wants another excuse to paint 362 00:17:38,074 --> 00:17:41,514 Speaker 2: rocks herself. But yes, exactly right, Like lean in. 363 00:17:41,754 --> 00:17:44,154 Speaker 3: I've got an uncomfortable theory, and I want you to 364 00:17:44,194 --> 00:17:46,234 Speaker 3: go with me here and hold the space for it. 365 00:17:46,274 --> 00:17:49,714 Speaker 1: Okay, do I need to hold Stacy's finger, We'll hold. 366 00:17:49,714 --> 00:17:51,434 Speaker 1: We're holding fingers. We're ready fished. 367 00:17:51,594 --> 00:17:53,954 Speaker 3: Just be open to it, open your brain up. Right. So, 368 00:17:54,154 --> 00:17:57,354 Speaker 3: for most of history, weird kids, like the ones who 369 00:17:57,394 --> 00:18:00,634 Speaker 3: didn't fit in, the loaners, the obsessives, the odd balls, 370 00:18:01,554 --> 00:18:07,194 Speaker 3: they became artists and inventors and revolutionaries and weird geniuses, 371 00:18:07,234 --> 00:18:09,474 Speaker 3: and they were the ones that pushed culture forward. Like 372 00:18:09,954 --> 00:18:12,754 Speaker 3: there's so many examples in history, like Anthony Goudi, he 373 00:18:12,914 --> 00:18:15,874 Speaker 3: was this madman architect. He was a really weird kid 374 00:18:15,954 --> 00:18:19,594 Speaker 3: and a very socially awkward adult. Einstein apparently did not 375 00:18:19,874 --> 00:18:22,874 Speaker 3: speak until he was four, and he learned in very 376 00:18:22,954 --> 00:18:27,754 Speaker 3: in deeply sort of nonlinear ways. Roll dah. He was 377 00:18:27,954 --> 00:18:31,874 Speaker 3: really problematic, guys. He was really dark and his school 378 00:18:31,874 --> 00:18:34,754 Speaker 3: reports are like out there, and you know he was 379 00:18:34,754 --> 00:18:37,754 Speaker 3: a bit of an odd ball too. Prince a really 380 00:18:37,794 --> 00:18:41,554 Speaker 3: weird kid, a total musical genius. Now, none of these 381 00:18:41,594 --> 00:18:48,994 Speaker 3: people were very happy, but they made great work. Now, 382 00:18:49,034 --> 00:18:55,674 Speaker 3: when a kid is any of these things, weird, intense, eccentric, impulsive, 383 00:18:56,354 --> 00:18:59,874 Speaker 3: the red flags go up and we diagnose, and look, 384 00:18:59,954 --> 00:19:03,273 Speaker 3: diagnosis can be really life changing and really supportive. We 385 00:19:03,314 --> 00:19:06,114 Speaker 3: certainly don't want any kid to suffer. But I guess 386 00:19:06,114 --> 00:19:09,754 Speaker 3: my question is if we are smoothing out all of 387 00:19:09,754 --> 00:19:13,354 Speaker 3: these spikes and the edges and kids like, what happens 388 00:19:13,394 --> 00:19:15,514 Speaker 3: to the creativity that used to grow in those spaces? 389 00:19:15,554 --> 00:19:17,074 Speaker 3: Because I think a lot of great art and a 390 00:19:17,074 --> 00:19:19,954 Speaker 3: lot of great innovation comes from pain and suffering, not 391 00:19:20,074 --> 00:19:23,514 Speaker 3: knowing where you are, and in our rush to kind 392 00:19:23,554 --> 00:19:27,313 Speaker 3: of fix and support an intervene really early, which is 393 00:19:27,394 --> 00:19:30,194 Speaker 3: very important. I'm not saying it's not. Are we accidentally 394 00:19:30,234 --> 00:19:33,034 Speaker 3: sanding down these edges that make humans really kind of interesting. 395 00:19:33,634 --> 00:19:36,674 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was an awesome line in that piece that 396 00:19:36,794 --> 00:19:39,354 Speaker 2: really stuck with me, where he said, for the first 397 00:19:39,394 --> 00:19:41,834 Speaker 2: time in history, weirdness is a choice, and it's a 398 00:19:41,874 --> 00:19:44,394 Speaker 2: hard one because we have more to lose than ever. 399 00:19:44,514 --> 00:19:46,834 Speaker 2: If we want a more interesting future, if we want 400 00:19:46,954 --> 00:19:50,074 Speaker 2: art that excites us and science that enlightens us, then 401 00:19:50,074 --> 00:19:53,074 Speaker 2: we'll have to tolerate a few illegal holes in the basement, 402 00:19:53,354 --> 00:19:55,954 Speaker 2: and somebody will have to be brave enough to climb 403 00:19:55,994 --> 00:19:58,273 Speaker 2: down it. I thought that was so good, Like he 404 00:19:58,394 --> 00:20:01,714 Speaker 2: was saying, we can't all be rule followers or nothing 405 00:20:01,794 --> 00:20:02,394 Speaker 2: will change. 406 00:20:02,554 --> 00:20:04,434 Speaker 1: No, you know, creative things will happen. 407 00:20:04,474 --> 00:20:06,674 Speaker 2: You kind of need someone to be a bit naughty 408 00:20:07,194 --> 00:20:09,994 Speaker 2: to try something and go, oh, yeah, look what happened there. 409 00:20:10,554 --> 00:20:12,553 Speaker 1: Well, I think it's interesting what you said about naughty 410 00:20:12,634 --> 00:20:16,594 Speaker 1: because sometimes that entails taking risks. Yeah, And I think 411 00:20:16,674 --> 00:20:21,074 Speaker 1: that that's core to this millennial style of parenting, is 412 00:20:21,114 --> 00:20:23,514 Speaker 1: the idea of minimizing risk. We don't want our kids 413 00:20:23,554 --> 00:20:26,954 Speaker 1: to take risks, which brings me to why this substec 414 00:20:27,034 --> 00:20:30,394 Speaker 1: the decline of deviants gives a reason for why we're 415 00:20:30,554 --> 00:20:32,874 Speaker 1: becoming so boring, And I think this is interesting as 416 00:20:32,874 --> 00:20:36,474 Speaker 1: it relates to parenting. Basically, the author says that as 417 00:20:36,554 --> 00:20:40,313 Speaker 1: people and societies have gotten rich over time, life has 418 00:20:40,394 --> 00:20:43,234 Speaker 1: become a lot less dangerous. We've got medical advances, we 419 00:20:43,634 --> 00:20:46,513 Speaker 1: understand science, we understand the importance of washing your hands, 420 00:20:46,514 --> 00:20:50,674 Speaker 1: for instance, we have vaccines. We care more about being alive. 421 00:20:50,834 --> 00:20:53,634 Speaker 1: We're staying alive for longer, so we want to take 422 00:20:53,714 --> 00:20:57,314 Speaker 1: fewer risks to keep our lives long and healthy, and 423 00:20:57,354 --> 00:21:01,234 Speaker 1: that includes aesthetic risks, and that includes Mond's. I think 424 00:21:01,274 --> 00:21:03,594 Speaker 1: that's such an interesting point you make about the connection 425 00:21:03,754 --> 00:21:09,354 Speaker 1: between creativity and deviance and risk taking, because that's so true. 426 00:21:09,634 --> 00:21:12,314 Speaker 1: And I do worry that. I mean, do goth kids 427 00:21:12,354 --> 00:21:16,474 Speaker 1: even exist anymore? A kid's goths anymore? Because that was 428 00:21:16,514 --> 00:21:19,594 Speaker 1: such a staple of nineties life. Yeah, I haven't seen 429 00:21:19,594 --> 00:21:20,154 Speaker 1: them around. 430 00:21:20,874 --> 00:21:23,594 Speaker 3: This is a really good theory about how privilege and 431 00:21:23,674 --> 00:21:25,554 Speaker 3: living a longer life means we take less risks. But 432 00:21:25,594 --> 00:21:29,554 Speaker 3: I've got another theory. I wonder if it's that we 433 00:21:29,594 --> 00:21:32,394 Speaker 3: now live in a surveillance state. And I don't mean 434 00:21:32,594 --> 00:21:36,954 Speaker 3: like CCTV. I mean everyone has a camera in their pocket. Now. 435 00:21:37,834 --> 00:21:40,114 Speaker 3: Do you remember life before you had a phone and 436 00:21:40,114 --> 00:21:44,234 Speaker 3: a camera? It was this freedom. It was this creativity. 437 00:21:44,474 --> 00:21:48,073 Speaker 3: It was really a great time. And I feel like 438 00:21:48,114 --> 00:21:51,594 Speaker 3: there's something in when you are being watched you can 439 00:21:51,754 --> 00:21:54,034 Speaker 3: form and you behave more And we know this from 440 00:21:54,074 --> 00:21:56,914 Speaker 3: every experiment ever done on human behavior, Like if you 441 00:21:56,954 --> 00:21:59,994 Speaker 3: think someone is watching you, you speak more politely, you 442 00:22:00,034 --> 00:22:02,874 Speaker 3: take few risks, you avoid embarrassment, you perform this version 443 00:22:02,914 --> 00:22:06,714 Speaker 3: of yourself that's much more acceptable. So we've created a 444 00:22:06,754 --> 00:22:11,034 Speaker 3: world now where any one bad moment or choice can 445 00:22:11,074 --> 00:22:16,593 Speaker 3: be screen recorded, retrievable forever. Can you know damage your 446 00:22:16,594 --> 00:22:20,354 Speaker 3: career prospects. Kles Stevens has made a whole podcast on 447 00:22:20,394 --> 00:22:22,954 Speaker 3: this very phenomenon, the Pylon, which is what people make 448 00:22:22,994 --> 00:22:26,034 Speaker 3: this one error, this lapse in judgment, and their lives 449 00:22:26,074 --> 00:22:29,314 Speaker 3: are completely upended. And that's a big factor too. 450 00:22:29,754 --> 00:22:32,474 Speaker 1: I saw some kids, well I guess they were young adults, 451 00:22:32,514 --> 00:22:35,874 Speaker 1: going to their formals last weekend or last week and 452 00:22:35,914 --> 00:22:39,194 Speaker 1: they were going off in their fancy formal dresses. And 453 00:22:39,274 --> 00:22:41,394 Speaker 1: I looked at these girls and I thought, you look 454 00:22:41,554 --> 00:22:44,593 Speaker 1: so much more put together than I looked when I 455 00:22:44,634 --> 00:22:47,834 Speaker 1: was going to my formal. You've all got a very similar, 456 00:22:48,074 --> 00:22:51,434 Speaker 1: very polished look. Like their dresses were very similar to 457 00:22:51,474 --> 00:22:53,714 Speaker 1: one another's They all had kind of like they were 458 00:22:53,714 --> 00:22:57,794 Speaker 1: all satiny a line with a cow neck, Like their 459 00:22:57,874 --> 00:23:00,074 Speaker 1: hair was all sort of the same in half up 460 00:23:00,074 --> 00:23:03,474 Speaker 1: half down, does their nails were the same? That goes 461 00:23:03,514 --> 00:23:05,874 Speaker 1: to your point once when you know that these photos 462 00:23:05,874 --> 00:23:08,794 Speaker 1: are ubiquitous and last forever. Well, it's not just photos, 463 00:23:08,794 --> 00:23:11,954 Speaker 1: you got videos, it's endlessly documented. You want to take 464 00:23:12,034 --> 00:23:13,874 Speaker 1: fewer aesthetic risks for sure. 465 00:23:14,074 --> 00:23:16,394 Speaker 2: Do you think part of that though, is like a 466 00:23:16,474 --> 00:23:19,834 Speaker 2: homogenization has happened because we're all so visible to other 467 00:23:19,874 --> 00:23:23,474 Speaker 2: people too, Like in terms of social media connection around 468 00:23:23,474 --> 00:23:26,594 Speaker 2: the world, like everyone is seeing how everyone behaves. I 469 00:23:26,594 --> 00:23:29,754 Speaker 2: think before it was very insular to your community or 470 00:23:29,754 --> 00:23:32,553 Speaker 2: your environment or your close friends. That's probably why the 471 00:23:32,554 --> 00:23:34,954 Speaker 2: goths happened and the you know, you could have these 472 00:23:34,994 --> 00:23:38,314 Speaker 2: different subset groups. But now it feels like everyone's looking 473 00:23:38,314 --> 00:23:40,154 Speaker 2: to the left and right and seeing what everyone else 474 00:23:40,234 --> 00:23:42,714 Speaker 2: is doing. That's why ten people in the office have 475 00:23:42,794 --> 00:23:46,194 Speaker 2: this shirt on regular rotation. Like you're seeing it so 476 00:23:46,274 --> 00:23:48,274 Speaker 2: much that you all just kind of become the same thing. 477 00:23:48,674 --> 00:23:50,154 Speaker 1: So what do we do about it? Do we just 478 00:23:50,194 --> 00:23:52,314 Speaker 1: like strap on our Doc Martins and tell our kids 479 00:23:52,314 --> 00:23:54,714 Speaker 1: to do the same. Yeah, how do we make them 480 00:23:54,754 --> 00:23:55,354 Speaker 1: embrace the. 481 00:23:55,354 --> 00:23:58,033 Speaker 3: Rib Yeah, I guess maybe awareness is the first step. 482 00:23:58,114 --> 00:24:01,434 Speaker 3: Like as millennial parents, we are under this pressure to 483 00:24:01,554 --> 00:24:07,314 Speaker 3: produce very well regulated, well adjusted, emotionally literate children. But 484 00:24:07,394 --> 00:24:09,874 Speaker 3: it's just keeping in mind that change makers and culture 485 00:24:09,874 --> 00:24:14,313 Speaker 3: makers often aren't that, and just maybe holding the space, 486 00:24:14,474 --> 00:24:17,314 Speaker 3: holding the space for weird and eccentric stuff. 487 00:24:17,194 --> 00:24:19,634 Speaker 1: And dealing with the looks. Maybe when you take a 488 00:24:19,714 --> 00:24:22,474 Speaker 1: kid out who's not wearing what people expect them to wear, 489 00:24:22,474 --> 00:24:25,634 Speaker 1: who isn't wearing fifty shades of oatmeal and is instead 490 00:24:25,714 --> 00:24:28,874 Speaker 1: wearing an all black outfit that might look a bit odd. 491 00:24:29,354 --> 00:24:31,313 Speaker 2: Maybe this is like, you know how when you have 492 00:24:31,394 --> 00:24:33,834 Speaker 2: a child that's very headstrong and then people are like 493 00:24:34,074 --> 00:24:35,834 Speaker 2: headstrong is what they need to be to run the 494 00:24:35,834 --> 00:24:38,794 Speaker 2: country one day. Like it's just about not dulling down 495 00:24:38,834 --> 00:24:41,234 Speaker 2: the parts of them that are difficult for us now 496 00:24:41,274 --> 00:24:44,274 Speaker 2: and not like shining away those sharp edges like you said, 497 00:24:44,314 --> 00:24:47,314 Speaker 2: mons and just letting them be because those things probably 498 00:24:47,354 --> 00:24:50,154 Speaker 2: will mean that we've got like a much broader variety 499 00:24:50,194 --> 00:24:53,474 Speaker 2: of people when they're grown up. So now it's time 500 00:24:53,514 --> 00:24:56,194 Speaker 2: for our recommendations. The things we're loving, sick or that 501 00:24:56,274 --> 00:24:58,874 Speaker 2: we want to tell you about and mine this week. 502 00:24:58,914 --> 00:25:01,553 Speaker 2: I'm a bit of a cocky mum. This week I 503 00:25:01,634 --> 00:25:04,714 Speaker 2: had to send a plate to my daughter's school, and 504 00:25:04,794 --> 00:25:07,353 Speaker 2: I sent a fruit cake, which is not like that 505 00:25:07,554 --> 00:25:09,554 Speaker 2: Lions one that you told us to buy at the 506 00:25:09,674 --> 00:25:12,674 Speaker 2: chemist a few weeks ago. Ones not like that one. 507 00:25:13,194 --> 00:25:16,354 Speaker 2: I made a cake but out of fruit. So I 508 00:25:16,474 --> 00:25:19,474 Speaker 2: just got like a big half watermelon, and you make 509 00:25:19,594 --> 00:25:22,033 Speaker 2: like the round bit like the cake, and then you 510 00:25:22,074 --> 00:25:24,994 Speaker 2: make a small round like a tear, so it's like 511 00:25:25,034 --> 00:25:27,994 Speaker 2: a teared cake, but it's made of watermelon. And then 512 00:25:28,034 --> 00:25:30,474 Speaker 2: you just chuck a lot of other fruits on top 513 00:25:30,514 --> 00:25:33,273 Speaker 2: of it, like berries and grapes, and it looks like 514 00:25:33,354 --> 00:25:35,354 Speaker 2: the fanciest shit you have ever seen. 515 00:25:35,714 --> 00:25:37,554 Speaker 3: My god, I've seen this on Pinterest. 516 00:25:37,634 --> 00:25:39,954 Speaker 2: You did it, Yeah, I did it. I did it, 517 00:25:39,994 --> 00:25:42,074 Speaker 2: and it actually didn't look too bad. I was quite 518 00:25:42,114 --> 00:25:44,354 Speaker 2: proud of myself. I'm very basic in the kitchen. 519 00:25:44,594 --> 00:25:47,234 Speaker 3: So you take a whole watermelon, yeah, and then you 520 00:25:47,274 --> 00:25:49,354 Speaker 3: shave it off to be the shape of a cake. 521 00:25:49,594 --> 00:25:51,273 Speaker 2: Well, no, you just get like a half one. You 522 00:25:51,354 --> 00:25:53,234 Speaker 2: just do it in little layers so you can just 523 00:25:53,354 --> 00:25:56,434 Speaker 2: chop it in slices, then take off the green bit 524 00:25:56,474 --> 00:25:58,594 Speaker 2: around the outside. And got like a big layer of 525 00:25:58,634 --> 00:26:01,273 Speaker 2: the cake and stuck it up, and it looks like 526 00:26:01,314 --> 00:26:03,594 Speaker 2: a cake, looked like a big wedding cake, but it 527 00:26:03,634 --> 00:26:06,034 Speaker 2: was fruit. And then I looked great because I'd send 528 00:26:06,074 --> 00:26:07,874 Speaker 2: something that was healthy as well. 529 00:26:07,954 --> 00:26:09,593 Speaker 1: But it's fine. Did your job love it? 530 00:26:09,714 --> 00:26:12,553 Speaker 2: You loved it, absolutely loved it. Was so proud of 531 00:26:12,594 --> 00:26:15,954 Speaker 2: taking it to school. That's good when they're. 532 00:26:15,194 --> 00:26:16,354 Speaker 1: Very proud to take it. 533 00:26:16,834 --> 00:26:18,434 Speaker 3: Have you put a pick on you instill? 534 00:26:18,514 --> 00:26:19,634 Speaker 1: I haven't. I'll do it. 535 00:26:19,674 --> 00:26:21,793 Speaker 2: We can put it on the parenting out Loud install 536 00:26:21,874 --> 00:26:24,194 Speaker 2: so people can say, look, it's a big crocket. I'm 537 00:26:24,234 --> 00:26:27,234 Speaker 2: not saying it's perfect. It looks a bit rough, but 538 00:26:27,474 --> 00:26:29,273 Speaker 2: I just think there are a fun thing that you 539 00:26:29,274 --> 00:26:32,474 Speaker 2: could take to people's place at Christmas time. It's great 540 00:26:32,554 --> 00:26:35,234 Speaker 2: and you just really you just took fruit, fruit. 541 00:26:35,154 --> 00:26:41,434 Speaker 1: So much color into everyone's lives. Weirdo. I know. I'm 542 00:26:41,474 --> 00:26:42,234 Speaker 1: embracing it. 543 00:26:42,314 --> 00:26:43,834 Speaker 3: I'm a bit sad you didn't take my freak. 544 00:26:44,034 --> 00:26:44,793 Speaker 1: I couldn't find one. 545 00:26:44,834 --> 00:26:49,114 Speaker 3: It's wrong with my Why aren't you doing my recommendation? 546 00:26:49,874 --> 00:26:53,394 Speaker 3: It's not TeamWorks, Stacy. That's good. I'm going to steal that. 547 00:26:53,474 --> 00:26:57,154 Speaker 1: Thank you from doing a lot to doing absolutely nothing. Okay. 548 00:26:58,274 --> 00:27:01,834 Speaker 1: Which I love is you send your kids to get 549 00:27:01,834 --> 00:27:06,434 Speaker 1: you coffee, like out of the house, got to the kitchen. No. 550 00:27:06,914 --> 00:27:09,354 Speaker 1: So so this came to me and I thought, it's 551 00:27:09,474 --> 00:27:13,674 Speaker 1: very Jonathan hate Codd. It's very like teaching resilience and independence. 552 00:27:14,034 --> 00:27:16,234 Speaker 3: But I also get gen gene twenge. 553 00:27:16,674 --> 00:27:20,874 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very gene Twine. And again I cannot stress 554 00:27:20,914 --> 00:27:23,994 Speaker 1: this enough. It works out great for me. So what 555 00:27:24,074 --> 00:27:28,954 Speaker 1: I did was I gave them twenty dollars, which is 556 00:27:28,994 --> 00:27:32,313 Speaker 1: a lot for coffee. So you need hash that's the 557 00:27:32,314 --> 00:27:34,273 Speaker 1: first hurdle and have to give them cash. But I 558 00:27:34,274 --> 00:27:37,114 Speaker 1: sort of thought it added to the nostalgia of the experience. 559 00:27:37,274 --> 00:27:39,434 Speaker 3: And then wait, how old do they remind me? 560 00:27:39,634 --> 00:27:42,394 Speaker 1: They're five and seven, So this was a big deal, 561 00:27:42,514 --> 00:27:44,834 Speaker 1: Like they were so excited about it. And I should 562 00:27:44,914 --> 00:27:47,474 Speaker 1: say that the cafe. We are fortunate enough to have 563 00:27:47,554 --> 00:27:49,794 Speaker 1: a cafe on our block, so there were no streets 564 00:27:49,794 --> 00:27:53,354 Speaker 1: to cross. I appreciate that in less urban areas this 565 00:27:53,434 --> 00:27:55,994 Speaker 1: could maybe I don't know if that makes it less 566 00:27:56,034 --> 00:27:58,754 Speaker 1: more or less scary to be in a less densely. 567 00:27:58,474 --> 00:28:00,914 Speaker 2: Popular But I was going to say at my place, 568 00:28:00,954 --> 00:28:02,634 Speaker 2: I live in the western suburbs of Sydney. 569 00:28:02,754 --> 00:28:04,754 Speaker 1: My daughter would have been walking for forty five minutes. 570 00:28:04,914 --> 00:28:07,954 Speaker 1: It's still not a shot. Probably not hear us. 571 00:28:10,314 --> 00:28:13,274 Speaker 2: A lot, Yeah, even if you didn't live near one, 572 00:28:13,394 --> 00:28:15,314 Speaker 2: like in my case, if you're a million miles away 573 00:28:15,314 --> 00:28:18,114 Speaker 2: from a shop, you could just park on the street 574 00:28:18,154 --> 00:28:19,594 Speaker 2: of a coffee shop and let them go in. Like 575 00:28:19,674 --> 00:28:21,874 Speaker 2: that's still a massive test for them in going and 576 00:28:21,954 --> 00:28:23,434 Speaker 2: just handling something on their own. 577 00:28:23,634 --> 00:28:27,274 Speaker 1: But maybe if you lived in a country town where yeah, yeah, yeah, 578 00:28:27,394 --> 00:28:29,514 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's up to you. But so they 579 00:28:29,554 --> 00:28:31,754 Speaker 1: walked to the cafe on our block and I gave 580 00:28:31,754 --> 00:28:33,714 Speaker 1: them the twenty dollars and here's what I said to them. 581 00:28:34,354 --> 00:28:37,394 Speaker 1: You can buy two coffees. It's up to you whether 582 00:28:37,434 --> 00:28:40,034 Speaker 1: you buy something for yourself. But here's what happens. The 583 00:28:40,114 --> 00:28:43,074 Speaker 1: change you bring back goes in a piggy bank, and 584 00:28:43,154 --> 00:28:44,754 Speaker 1: at the end of the year, the two of you 585 00:28:44,794 --> 00:28:47,834 Speaker 1: can split that money and buy yourself something big. So 586 00:28:47,874 --> 00:28:50,474 Speaker 1: you're kind of asking them to budget, because look, you're 587 00:28:50,514 --> 00:28:53,514 Speaker 1: welcome to spend it on a muffin, or you can 588 00:28:53,554 --> 00:28:55,354 Speaker 1: put it in the piggy bank and then buy something 589 00:28:55,394 --> 00:28:58,994 Speaker 1: much bigger with it. So it was an interesting experiment. 590 00:28:59,234 --> 00:29:02,234 Speaker 3: Hang on stop. The moment that they walk out and 591 00:29:02,274 --> 00:29:03,874 Speaker 3: out of your sight, how did you feel? 592 00:29:04,074 --> 00:29:07,754 Speaker 1: I felt a little nervous, but also exhilarating because I 593 00:29:07,794 --> 00:29:10,754 Speaker 1: could see how excited they were setting out into the world, 594 00:29:10,954 --> 00:29:14,594 Speaker 1: and I wanted them to make the ask. I just 595 00:29:14,634 --> 00:29:17,354 Speaker 1: felt proud of them. So they came back a few 596 00:29:17,354 --> 00:29:20,514 Speaker 1: minutes later. Now, what this did mean is that they 597 00:29:20,874 --> 00:29:25,714 Speaker 1: split a bottle of Fanta for breakfast, which is not ideal. 598 00:29:25,874 --> 00:29:29,034 Speaker 1: I don't think that's Gene Twinge or Jonathan hate Codd 599 00:29:29,314 --> 00:29:32,394 Speaker 1: and dentists everywhere are cheering me on. But they made 600 00:29:32,394 --> 00:29:34,714 Speaker 1: a choice. They made their choice. They did have some 601 00:29:34,834 --> 00:29:37,394 Speaker 1: change though, Even in Sydney, you have changed from two 602 00:29:37,394 --> 00:29:40,594 Speaker 1: coffees and a Fanta, so I put the change away. 603 00:29:40,714 --> 00:29:43,074 Speaker 3: I have so many questions. Did anyone stop them, say 604 00:29:43,114 --> 00:29:45,554 Speaker 3: where are your parents doing? Was there anything else? 605 00:29:45,634 --> 00:29:47,914 Speaker 1: Now I live in a very unfriendly suburb, so no 606 00:29:47,954 --> 00:29:51,594 Speaker 1: one stopped the more expressed any concern. I asked them 607 00:29:51,754 --> 00:29:54,554 Speaker 1: what was the reaction at the cafe, and they said 608 00:29:54,674 --> 00:29:57,514 Speaker 1: that some people looked at them strangely, which made me 609 00:29:57,554 --> 00:30:00,594 Speaker 1: feel even more proud. Yeah, yeah, it's kind of running there. 610 00:30:01,074 --> 00:30:03,554 Speaker 1: I'm like, this is what the experts say. I should 611 00:30:03,594 --> 00:30:05,994 Speaker 1: do back off. I would have been hiding in the hedges. 612 00:30:06,154 --> 00:30:07,714 Speaker 1: I'm not calling I have to do this. 613 00:30:08,114 --> 00:30:10,274 Speaker 3: When they got home, how were they. 614 00:30:10,394 --> 00:30:14,994 Speaker 1: They were absolutely delirious with pride and happiness. And now 615 00:30:14,994 --> 00:30:18,194 Speaker 1: they asked to do it all the time. So we 616 00:30:18,234 --> 00:30:20,554 Speaker 1: don't get coffee out all the time. We only get 617 00:30:20,554 --> 00:30:23,514 Speaker 1: it out on the weekend because it's expensive. So I 618 00:30:23,554 --> 00:30:25,154 Speaker 1: said to them, we can turn this into a little 619 00:30:25,154 --> 00:30:26,994 Speaker 1: bit of a thing on the weekend. You can go 620 00:30:27,114 --> 00:30:29,274 Speaker 1: on one day. The only issue is when you have 621 00:30:29,394 --> 00:30:33,554 Speaker 1: multiple children doing it, is who actually gets to profer 622 00:30:33,594 --> 00:30:36,714 Speaker 1: the money. I should mention that the lattes were about 623 00:30:36,794 --> 00:30:39,274 Speaker 1: half full when they got them back home. But you know, 624 00:30:39,314 --> 00:30:41,714 Speaker 1: it's a small price to pay for convenience. Yeah, I 625 00:30:41,834 --> 00:30:42,434 Speaker 1: love it. 626 00:30:42,674 --> 00:30:44,114 Speaker 3: I did a similar thing in our house. 627 00:30:44,154 --> 00:30:44,714 Speaker 1: Tell me what you doing. 628 00:30:44,794 --> 00:30:47,434 Speaker 3: I sent my seven year old on an errand he 629 00:30:47,514 --> 00:30:50,034 Speaker 3: had to go because the same thing as you, Amelia. 630 00:30:50,194 --> 00:30:52,394 Speaker 3: I listened to what the experts are saying. They say 631 00:30:52,514 --> 00:30:54,834 Speaker 3: to build resilience in kids, you need to start doing 632 00:30:54,994 --> 00:30:57,994 Speaker 3: independence activities with them. So send them on these errands, 633 00:30:58,394 --> 00:31:01,474 Speaker 3: give them no help whatsoever, set them off into the world. 634 00:31:02,354 --> 00:31:04,794 Speaker 3: And so I sent my seven year old around to 635 00:31:04,874 --> 00:31:08,714 Speaker 3: his cousin's house to deliver a package. It's about a 636 00:31:08,794 --> 00:31:12,194 Speaker 3: kilometer away, and he had to cross three roads. The 637 00:31:13,034 --> 00:31:16,274 Speaker 3: feeling I had when I said goodbye, I felt like 638 00:31:16,354 --> 00:31:18,354 Speaker 3: my heart was on the outside of my chest. And 639 00:31:18,394 --> 00:31:20,634 Speaker 3: I was like, that's normal, it's okay. But I tailed 640 00:31:20,674 --> 00:31:22,474 Speaker 3: him because I'm hoverer. 641 00:31:22,834 --> 00:31:24,674 Speaker 1: I just thought, did you tell him that you were 642 00:31:24,714 --> 00:31:25,674 Speaker 1: tailing him? Or no? 643 00:31:25,674 --> 00:31:26,714 Speaker 3: No, no, no, God. 644 00:31:27,074 --> 00:31:29,834 Speaker 1: Can I take a question. Were the streets traffic light 645 00:31:29,914 --> 00:31:32,514 Speaker 1: streets or what was the nature of the streets that 646 00:31:32,514 --> 00:31:33,034 Speaker 1: he crossed? 647 00:31:33,314 --> 00:31:37,794 Speaker 3: Like suburban backstreets, so not busy, not main roads. But 648 00:31:37,954 --> 00:31:40,114 Speaker 3: I watched him. He was great, he stopped, he looked, 649 00:31:40,114 --> 00:31:42,194 Speaker 3: he stopped, he looked, he looked, he looked. He was 650 00:31:42,314 --> 00:31:44,954 Speaker 3: very safe. But I pretended I was in slow horses 651 00:31:45,074 --> 00:31:47,754 Speaker 3: and I was just and lamb, and I fully tailed him, 652 00:31:47,794 --> 00:31:51,034 Speaker 3: and I stayed out of sight the whole time. When 653 00:31:51,394 --> 00:31:54,354 Speaker 3: he got to my cousin's house, my mum was there, 654 00:31:54,594 --> 00:31:57,074 Speaker 3: and I didn't tell her. This was the crucial mistake 655 00:31:57,114 --> 00:31:59,034 Speaker 3: I made. I did not tell her what he was doing. 656 00:31:59,674 --> 00:32:02,554 Speaker 3: So she rang me and was like, have you lost 657 00:32:02,754 --> 00:32:05,074 Speaker 3: your mind? Why are you sending a seven year old 658 00:32:05,194 --> 00:32:07,834 Speaker 3: off on their own and so that was interesting and 659 00:32:07,874 --> 00:32:09,394 Speaker 3: I was like, Mum, it's the thing that I'm trying 660 00:32:09,394 --> 00:32:11,474 Speaker 3: to do. Like all the parenting experts say that she'd 661 00:32:11,514 --> 00:32:13,594 Speaker 3: been doing it anyway, So she had a really extremely 662 00:32:13,754 --> 00:32:14,274 Speaker 3: that's really. 663 00:32:14,234 --> 00:32:16,754 Speaker 1: Interesting because we have this idea that we're the ones 664 00:32:16,794 --> 00:32:19,114 Speaker 1: who are over protecting our kids. But I guess our 665 00:32:19,194 --> 00:32:20,634 Speaker 1: parents didn't do this either. 666 00:32:21,634 --> 00:32:23,954 Speaker 3: And then I said I'm tailing him. It's fine. She's like, oh, 667 00:32:23,994 --> 00:32:27,554 Speaker 3: thank god, thank god. When he got home, You're right. 668 00:32:27,674 --> 00:32:31,834 Speaker 3: The word for it is deliriously happy. He was so 669 00:32:32,514 --> 00:32:35,274 Speaker 3: I've never seen a sparkle in an eye like this before. 670 00:32:35,434 --> 00:32:38,114 Speaker 3: He was exhilarated, and he's asked to do it again 671 00:32:38,154 --> 00:32:39,954 Speaker 3: and again, and he wants his cousins to do it too. 672 00:32:40,234 --> 00:32:42,994 Speaker 3: So independence activities all the way here. 673 00:32:43,194 --> 00:32:45,634 Speaker 1: It's almost like the experts are onto something. When they 674 00:32:45,714 --> 00:32:49,154 Speaker 1: say it promotes it actually works. 675 00:32:49,874 --> 00:32:52,354 Speaker 3: I want to tell you about something I did on 676 00:32:52,354 --> 00:32:55,514 Speaker 3: the weekend with the kids. Was we rewatched Home Alone. 677 00:32:55,714 --> 00:32:57,834 Speaker 3: Oh right, as an adult. 678 00:32:57,514 --> 00:33:00,474 Speaker 1: This isn't I have a friend who told me this too. 679 00:33:01,474 --> 00:33:02,914 Speaker 1: Everywhere again, now. 680 00:33:02,994 --> 00:33:06,794 Speaker 3: Okay, rewatching it as an adult is a mind blowing 681 00:33:07,234 --> 00:33:09,474 Speaker 3: So I have not watched this movie in twenty years, 682 00:33:09,514 --> 00:33:12,034 Speaker 3: I reckon and when you're a kid, this movie's sick. 683 00:33:12,234 --> 00:33:14,914 Speaker 3: Like it's an eight year old living his best life, 684 00:33:15,474 --> 00:33:19,314 Speaker 3: eating whatever he wants and booby trapping these criminals. When 685 00:33:19,354 --> 00:33:21,994 Speaker 3: do you watch it as a parent? My jaws on 686 00:33:21,994 --> 00:33:25,074 Speaker 3: the floor. It's like a masterclass in nineties parenting where 687 00:33:25,114 --> 00:33:28,514 Speaker 3: the kids are basically raising themselves. There is this scene 688 00:33:28,954 --> 00:33:32,794 Speaker 3: and I actually gasped, where all the family are having 689 00:33:32,914 --> 00:33:35,274 Speaker 3: dinner at the dinner table and it's lots of noise 690 00:33:35,314 --> 00:33:38,274 Speaker 3: and chaos going on, and this Kevin spills a glass 691 00:33:38,314 --> 00:33:41,874 Speaker 3: of milk. Kevin's uncle turns to him at the dinner 692 00:33:41,914 --> 00:33:46,314 Speaker 3: table in front of everyone and says, this, look jerk. 693 00:33:47,794 --> 00:33:52,034 Speaker 3: Kevin's parents are like, yeah, fair, Like it's so unhinged. 694 00:33:52,114 --> 00:33:55,114 Speaker 3: It's just peak nineties parenting. But the wildest part is 695 00:33:55,234 --> 00:33:57,474 Speaker 3: when you watch this as a kid, all you remember 696 00:33:57,474 --> 00:34:00,434 Speaker 3: other prank city pools. But as an adult, I was 697 00:34:00,474 --> 00:34:02,914 Speaker 3: so proud of him. Like, he's eight years old, he's 698 00:34:02,994 --> 00:34:06,154 Speaker 3: running errands, he's buying milk at the shops, he's doing 699 00:34:06,194 --> 00:34:09,953 Speaker 3: the washing, he's popping into church for some emotional regulation, 700 00:34:10,114 --> 00:34:14,633 Speaker 3: Like it is so amazing. Meanwhile, my seven year old 701 00:34:14,754 --> 00:34:17,674 Speaker 3: cannot shower without me standing there being like wash your face, 702 00:34:17,994 --> 00:34:20,954 Speaker 3: wash you up. You know, it's just this reminder that 703 00:34:21,034 --> 00:34:24,714 Speaker 3: kids are way more capable than we assume, and that 704 00:34:24,874 --> 00:34:27,914 Speaker 3: parents today are carrying this mental load that nineties parents 705 00:34:27,954 --> 00:34:28,754 Speaker 3: just would not goe with. 706 00:34:29,074 --> 00:34:31,274 Speaker 1: Can I ask if your kids liked it? Because I 707 00:34:31,314 --> 00:34:33,874 Speaker 1: watched Et with my kids and it was so slow 708 00:34:33,994 --> 00:34:36,514 Speaker 1: and it was visually very dark because it came from 709 00:34:36,554 --> 00:34:38,634 Speaker 1: an age where people watch movies on a big screen 710 00:34:38,674 --> 00:34:41,234 Speaker 1: and you could deal with more darkness on screen than 711 00:34:41,274 --> 00:34:43,314 Speaker 1: you can now. And they didn't really love it. What 712 00:34:43,354 --> 00:34:44,794 Speaker 1: did they think of Home Alone? 713 00:34:44,954 --> 00:34:47,594 Speaker 3: They really struggled at the start because again the credits start, 714 00:34:47,714 --> 00:34:50,154 Speaker 3: it's like long slow music with all the names on 715 00:34:50,194 --> 00:34:53,034 Speaker 3: the screen. They're like, God, hurry up. I was like, 716 00:34:53,154 --> 00:34:55,434 Speaker 3: just stick with it. They got scared of the robbers. 717 00:34:55,434 --> 00:34:58,994 Speaker 3: I was like, Lily nightmares tonight. But it's all resilience building, 718 00:34:58,994 --> 00:35:01,873 Speaker 3: it's character building. That's all we have time for. Get 719 00:35:01,914 --> 00:35:05,834 Speaker 3: out there, get weird this Christmas. Everyone just get weird. 720 00:35:06,354 --> 00:35:08,754 Speaker 3: You know that one friend of yours that would actually 721 00:35:08,914 --> 00:35:11,274 Speaker 3: like this conversation and this show, you should send this 722 00:35:11,314 --> 00:35:13,393 Speaker 3: to them, Just tell them about it. That's how we're 723 00:35:13,394 --> 00:35:16,554 Speaker 3: going to grow this podcast. Just one person at a time. 724 00:35:16,794 --> 00:35:18,794 Speaker 3: And we know people are always looking for new podcasts, 725 00:35:18,834 --> 00:35:20,794 Speaker 3: so be the friend that gives them a good one 726 00:35:20,834 --> 00:35:24,794 Speaker 3: to try. Hey, fyi, we know some podcasts might have 727 00:35:24,794 --> 00:35:27,754 Speaker 3: a little break over summer. Not us, No, no, no, 728 00:35:27,914 --> 00:35:31,674 Speaker 3: not on our watch. We know that parenting never stops, 729 00:35:31,674 --> 00:35:34,514 Speaker 3: and neither do we, so we will be publishing fresh 730 00:35:34,674 --> 00:35:38,034 Speaker 3: new episodes every Saturday morning for you. Okay, We're not 731 00:35:38,074 --> 00:35:41,274 Speaker 3: going anywhere. We will be here all summer long, spending 732 00:35:41,314 --> 00:35:44,913 Speaker 3: time with you, distracting you. So spend some time with us. 733 00:35:44,914 --> 00:35:47,474 Speaker 3: Get away from your family, come hang with me, Stacy 734 00:35:47,554 --> 00:35:50,274 Speaker 3: and Amelia. We'll talk to you then. A big thanks 735 00:35:50,314 --> 00:35:53,954 Speaker 3: to our team Junior content producer Tessakotovic, our senior producer 736 00:35:53,994 --> 00:35:57,674 Speaker 3: Leir Porges, and executive producers Sashtanic and the group EPs 737 00:35:57,714 --> 00:36:02,513 Speaker 3: Ruth are fine, Merry, happy Christmas, very safe, be safe 738 00:36:02,554 --> 00:36:03,234 Speaker 3: on the roads. 739 00:36:03,514 --> 00:36:04,954 Speaker 1: Send your kids out for a lato. 740 00:36:06,034 --> 00:36:08,513 Speaker 3: Yeah, send you kid out for a latte a piece 741 00:36:08,554 --> 00:36:11,354 Speaker 3: of fruitcake. Have a great week, and we will be 742 00:36:11,474 --> 00:36:19,074 Speaker 3: back in this feed next Saturday morning. Bye bye, MoMA. 743 00:36:19,154 --> 00:36:21,754 Speaker 3: Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which 744 00:36:21,754 --> 00:36:23,154 Speaker 3: we have recorded this podcast.