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Speaker 1: You're listening to a mother and mea podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mama Mayor acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 1: Hello out louders, it's meyor in you. Hello out louders,

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Speaker 1: it's meya in your ears. I was going to say

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Speaker 1: in your rear, but that's a different thing for Out

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Speaker 1: Loud Sunday Special. You would not mean your rear. I

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Speaker 1: tell you what, who else is feeling exhausted, maybe a

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Speaker 1: little bit burnt out? Well, the year is almost over

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Speaker 1: and I think a lot of us are feeling a

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Speaker 1: bit burnt out, which is why I wanted to share

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Speaker 1: an episode of No Filter with you today that I

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Speaker 1: think you're going to absolutely love and get lots out

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Speaker 1: of When you feel exhausted and you try and get

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Speaker 1: more sleep. Funnily enough, it doesn't always make you feel

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Speaker 1: more rested because sleep and rest are not actually the

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Speaker 1: same thing. And I sat down with doctor Saundra Dalton

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Speaker 1: Smith to chat about the seven different kinds of rest

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Speaker 1: that will prevent you from burning out and help help

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Speaker 1: you to work out what it is that you need

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Speaker 1: to feel refreshed. Enjoy this episode from Ama Mia. I'm Meya, Friedman.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the No Filter podcast, and I have

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Speaker 1: a question for you. Are you tired? I'm tired and

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Speaker 1: I've been gagging to have the conversation you're about to

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Speaker 1: hear and share it with you. If you're anything like

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Speaker 1: me and you're tired, maybe you've tried to make sure

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Speaker 1: you're getting enough sleep, maybe you had an early night,

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Speaker 1: or maybe you even asked your GP to run a

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Speaker 1: few tests, but nothing seems to work. Nothing came up physically,

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Speaker 1: You're okay, but you still feel so tired today. I've

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Speaker 1: got some answers for you. It's going to change your life,

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Speaker 1: change mine. Saundra Dalton Smith is a physician and she

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Speaker 1: also works in the area of work life integration and

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Speaker 1: she's a self described nerd. After a period of intense

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Speaker 1: burnout in her own life, she discovered that there are

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Speaker 1: seven key ways in which we've become fatigued and seven

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Speaker 1: different kinds of rest that we need to restore and recharge,

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Speaker 1: and spoiler alert, none of them are sleep. So if

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Speaker 1: you're feeling really tired and getting more sleep isn't helping,

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Speaker 1: it might be one of these other areas that you

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Speaker 1: need rest in Saundra's framework has totally changed the way

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Speaker 1: I see my own life. I can't emphasize enough what

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Speaker 1: an aha moment it's been. I've told everybody about the

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Speaker 1: seven types of Rest. I've become completely obsessed with sharing

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Speaker 1: it with my friends, with my family, with my coworkers,

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Speaker 1: and I'm so excited to share the seven types of

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Speaker 1: rest with you right now. Here's doctor Saundra Dalton Smith.

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Speaker 1: You're a physician. Can you tell me a little bit

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Speaker 1: about your life before you burnt out?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely love being a physician. I don't think there was

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Speaker 3: anything that I wanted to do other than that. That's

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Speaker 3: all I could ever recall from the age of five,

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Speaker 3: and so when I finished residency and went into practice,

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Speaker 3: everything was fantastic.

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Speaker 2: Until I had kids.

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Speaker 3: I could work sixty seventy hours a week, no problem.

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Speaker 3: I was married at the time. I still was able

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Speaker 3: to make it all function. However, when my husband and

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Speaker 3: I decided to start a family, that's when it all

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Speaker 3: hit the wall, and that's really when the burnout started.

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Speaker 3: I had no system in place for adding anything else

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Speaker 3: to my life, and we had our children pretty close together,

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Speaker 3: back to back twenty one months apart. I really didn't

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Speaker 3: have a system when we added too to our life,

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Speaker 3: and that's really when the burnout period started. I think

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Speaker 3: for myself, it was just a matter of realizing that

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Speaker 3: I had the life I had been building. I'd for

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Speaker 3: years been building this practice. Wanted these children, this house,

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Speaker 3: this family, all of the things, and I built a

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Speaker 3: life that I really had no energy to enjoy.

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Speaker 1: H that's interesting and very very familiar. What did burnout

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Speaker 1: look like for you? Because obviously, when you've got two

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Speaker 1: little kids, the sleep deprivation is a whole new thing,

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Speaker 1: and that is a level of tiredness that it is

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Speaker 1: hard to explain to someone before they're actually in it.

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Speaker 1: So during that period, I imagine when your kids were small,

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Speaker 1: the actual physical tiredness was that at the top of

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Speaker 1: your tiredness deficit.

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Speaker 3: Unfortunately, not I thought that's what would be the issue.

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Speaker 3: And actually, at the time all of this was happening,

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Speaker 3: I really didn't have a framework for the seven types

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Speaker 3: of rest that didn't exist. I just knew I was tired,

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Speaker 3: and so, just like you mentioned, I assumed that it

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Speaker 3: was just I needed more sleep. I had children waking

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Speaker 3: me up all hours, and I thought that was the problem,

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Speaker 3: and so I did what I felt I needed to

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Speaker 3: do to fix that and get seven eight nine hours

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Speaker 3: of sleep. And I think it really dawned on me

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Speaker 3: that something is missing here when I remember waking up

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Speaker 3: one day and it was like ten hours like I'd

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Speaker 3: been in bed forever. We'd hired somebody to do all

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Speaker 3: the things and help out, and I was getting all

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Speaker 3: this sleep and I was still exhausted. And I think

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Speaker 3: that's when it really hit me that there is some

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Speaker 3: part of myself that's fatigued and I don't even understand

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Speaker 3: what it is to begin the process of trying.

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Speaker 2: To get better.

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Speaker 1: So then what did you do?

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm a nerd, so for me, if there's a problem,

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Speaker 3: you figure it out. And I'm a biochemistry major, so

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Speaker 3: you always go to the smallest unit of something to

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Speaker 3: try to understand it. And so for myself, it was

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Speaker 3: a matter of, Okay, I'm tired, let me figure out

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Speaker 3: what kind of tired I am. That was kind of

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Speaker 3: the beginning of this process. There's something in me exhausted

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Speaker 3: and I haven't nailed it yet. And so I started

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Speaker 3: looking at really just the energy I used in a day,

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Speaker 3: Like where am I expending energy? And I started writing

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Speaker 3: all these different activities that were a part of my

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Speaker 3: job as a physician and as a parent, and that's

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Speaker 3: where the divisions of the type of for us began.

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Speaker 3: There were way more than seven when it started, because

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Speaker 3: it was just like this running list of things I'm

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Speaker 3: looking at.

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Speaker 2: But there were so many things that grouped together.

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Speaker 3: And so as I started grouping things together, and because

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Speaker 3: I was actively seeing patients at the time I was

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Speaker 3: trying to heal myself, I was able to bring in

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Speaker 3: some of their information and hear their stories of fatigue,

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Speaker 3: and bring in some of their information as well.

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Speaker 1: In the initial process, as a physician and as you say,

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Speaker 1: a self described nerd and biochemistry major, the first place

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Speaker 1: we look for causes of tiredness tend to be physical,

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Speaker 1: right in the body. So you go, okay, if I've

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Speaker 1: had enough sleep and I'm still tired, Am I sick?

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Speaker 1: Do I have an eye ins efficiency? Is there some

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Speaker 1: underlying health concern that I might have? Is it chronic fatigue?

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Speaker 1: Did you go there first? What made you then even

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Speaker 1: think that there were other contributing factors to tiredness?

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Speaker 2: You're absolutely right. That is where I began.

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Speaker 3: I think because of my background The first thing I

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Speaker 3: did was start looking at all of my vitamin levels,

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Speaker 3: all of my hormone levels. I started looking at different

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Speaker 3: things regarding while if I eat more of this or

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Speaker 3: less of this, and thinking about caffeine and how I

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Speaker 3: was consuming. I did all the natural things. None of

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Speaker 3: the tests came back abnormal. Getting more sleep did not

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Speaker 3: seem to solve the problem. I still would wake up tired,

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Speaker 3: getting a massage or taking a me day or even

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Speaker 3: going on vacation. All of the conventional things that normally

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Speaker 3: we try when you're tired.

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Speaker 2: None of it worked. And I think I really.

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Speaker 3: Got to a place of desperation because it's really disheartening

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Speaker 3: when you've done all the things conventional science and medicine

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Speaker 3: tells you should fix you. At the time, we were

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Speaker 3: in the middle of something called a sleep revolution. Arianna

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Speaker 3: Huffington was talking about it, and everybody was talking about sleep,

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Speaker 3: and I mean, it was such an overwhelming conversation about sleep.

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Speaker 1: I found that so annoying, Sandra, I found it really annoying, like.

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Speaker 2: Situation.

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Speaker 1: I know everyone needed to sleep, and everyone does need

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Speaker 1: to sleep, but I just found it very simplistic. And

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Speaker 1: maybe you're identifying why because once my kids were a

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Speaker 1: bit older, I was sleeping through the night, I was

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Speaker 1: doing all of that, but the tiredness was something different.

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Speaker 1: How did you come to seven different types? And maybe

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Speaker 1: we should stop by you just listing out what they

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Speaker 1: are for people who are new to this idea.

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Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, so the seven are physical, mental, spiritual, emotional, social, sensory,

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Speaker 3: and creative. And really, from that whole disconnect with the

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Speaker 3: sleep revolution, like you stated, I felt like it was

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Speaker 3: not serving me. I started leaning more into this concept

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Speaker 3: of sleep and rest can't be the same thing. So

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Speaker 3: now I need to define what rest is and then

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Speaker 3: actually help quantify it in such a way that we

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Speaker 3: can actually understand when we are thriving in it and

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Speaker 3: when we're deficient in it. And so that's where this

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Speaker 3: whole concept of the seven types of rest rest deficits

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Speaker 3: and being able to identify rests and even just the

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Speaker 3: conversation of sleep and rest not being the same thing.

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Speaker 1: And let's start with physical because you might not be

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Speaker 1: a very active person. You know, it's not just about

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Speaker 1: I've gone for a massive run and I'm training for

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Speaker 1: a marathon and now I'm tired. Let's talk about how

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Speaker 1: we expend it energy physically.

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Speaker 3: Yes, everything that we're doing that uses our physical body

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Speaker 3: uses some level of physical energy. So if you're a

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Speaker 3: mom and you're lifting up kids and those kind of things,

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Speaker 3: doing laundry and dishes, or if you're a nurse, if

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Speaker 3: you're walking around the hospital or moving patients around, or

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Speaker 3: if you're a teacher and you're carrying loads of books

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Speaker 3: from one classroom to another. If you're someone who's in

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Speaker 3: it and you're sitting at a desk, even the body

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Speaker 3: ergonomics of the workstation that you're at puts a demand

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Speaker 3: on your physical body. So there's multiple different ways that

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Speaker 3: our physical body is using energy. You know, the things

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Speaker 3: you're looking for are does my body feel good? Do

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Speaker 3: I have neckache or muscle aches, or my legs swelling?

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Speaker 3: Those types of things that are evaluating the circulation, the lymphatics,

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Speaker 3: muscle flexibility. All of that's a part of well being

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Speaker 3: within the physical aspect.

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Speaker 1: I always read about people who wake up in the

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Speaker 1: morning and like jump out of bed. Is that an

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Speaker 1: indicator that you are physically rested well?

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Speaker 3: That could be an indication that you are well rested

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Speaker 3: on many fronts, because if you're jumping out of bed,

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Speaker 3: maybe your motivation's high too, so you have a lot

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Speaker 3: of spiritual rest.

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Speaker 2: Or maybe mentally you're in a good.

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Speaker 3: Mood, so you have that as well. So there's lots

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Speaker 3: of components that add to that. I tend to question

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Speaker 3: more when someone comes out of bed after seven eight

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Speaker 3: hours and they're dragging. It's like, Okay, what's the problem here?

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Speaker 1: What about mental rest? What are some of the things

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Speaker 1: that causes us to feel mentally exhausted?

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Speaker 3: Yes, mental energy is used when we are concentrating, when

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Speaker 3: we're focusing on things. Multitasking tend to use quite a

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Speaker 3: bit of mental energy. Anytime we're processing and reasoning through things,

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Speaker 3: everything from going through your email, studying for a test.

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Speaker 3: When you're doing deep work in any sense or form,

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Speaker 3: is a type of mental work that you're doing.

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Speaker 2: Mental energy that you're using.

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Speaker 1: So when you're having to think, when you're having to

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Speaker 1: be alert, mentally alert, process a lot of information decisions.

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Speaker 3: If you're doing a lot of decisions, decision fatigue is

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Speaker 3: effect of that mental rest.

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Speaker 1: Epicite, What about emotional rest? What makes us emotionally exhausted?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is actually the one that I was deficient

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Speaker 3: in and didn't even think it was a thin I

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Speaker 3: was carrying quite a bit of what I now term

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Speaker 3: as professional emotional labor, meaning that there is parts of

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Speaker 3: myself that I had to keep in a place of professionalism. However,

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Speaker 3: there was a bit of inauthenticity to my normal personality

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Speaker 3: that I had to step into to be that person.

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Speaker 3: And I think a lot of us do this, whether

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Speaker 3: you're an entrepreneur, or you're someone who's on stage, or

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Speaker 3: you know, if you're leading a company, or for myself,

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Speaker 3: I'm in an er ICU situation at times as an internist,

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Speaker 3: and I'm going to impath. I'm the type of person

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Speaker 3: who cries at the sappy commercials. You know, that's my personality.

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Speaker 3: I'm very soft hearted. However, you have never seen me

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Speaker 3: cry in a medical situation. I have learned how to

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Speaker 3: lock down every emotion in those moments because it doesn't

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Speaker 3: serve my patience or my nursing staff. And so every

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Speaker 3: day I would keep all of that in check, and

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Speaker 3: I had never thought about finding a place to release it,

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Speaker 3: finding a place to experience the emotional rest. So I

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Speaker 3: kept loading up my professional emotional labor in my emotional

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Speaker 3: backpack every day with no place to release it. And

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Speaker 3: then with children coming on top of that, I did

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Speaker 3: not expect the emotions of parenting, first steps, crying all

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Speaker 3: night long, needing you pull, you know, all of those

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Speaker 3: extra emotions. I had no reserves, and that's what put

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Speaker 3: me over the top.

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Speaker 1: So if I had a fight side with my husband

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Speaker 1: before I came into the studio to talk to you today,

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Speaker 1: the fight would have required emotional energy. And then presenting

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Speaker 1: myself to you as a professional person in this situation

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Speaker 1: and suppressing everything that I've just gone through. That would

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Speaker 1: also require emotional energies at what you're.

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Speaker 3: Saying exactly right, Or if you're in customer service and

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Speaker 3: someone's being a jerk and you put a smile on

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Speaker 3: your face and you're serving the customer. A lot of

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Speaker 3: us use quite a bit of emotional energy in ways

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Speaker 3: we don't even recognize, and then we wonder why we

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Speaker 3: are so emotionally toxic because we have built in in

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Speaker 3: authenticity as a part of being professional, which I see

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Speaker 3: the reason for it in the place for it, but

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Speaker 3: we also have to have a counterpart to that so

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Speaker 3: that we understand. We have to have places where we

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Speaker 3: can be unfiltered, where we can be real, where we

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Speaker 3: can just say it as it needs to be said

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Speaker 3: and not feel like we have to hold it back.

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Speaker 1: Does empathy use up emotional energy.

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Speaker 3: Empathy does to some degree. What happens oftentimes when we're

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Speaker 3: empathic is we are able to kind of step into

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Speaker 3: the emotions of other people, but we have to make

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Speaker 3: sure that we are not assuming responsibility for those emotions.

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Speaker 3: I can sit with the pain of someone in a

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Speaker 3: near death type situation and not leave the room feeling

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Speaker 3: like death. I can leave that room not feeling as

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Speaker 3: if I'm experiencing it in real time with them. I

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Speaker 3: am just empathic to the pain that they're going through.

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Speaker 3: I'm willing to be in the moment with their pain.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's the part of the training that

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Speaker 3: we don't get. Physicians don't get it, nurses don't get it.

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Speaker 3: None of us are really taught how to experience hard

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Speaker 3: things that drain us, especially emotional hard things, and then

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Speaker 3: how to restore back that same area that we used

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Speaker 3: energy from emotionally.

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Speaker 1: We're talking at a time in the news cycle. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the news cycle is never good. That's the point of

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Speaker 1: the news cycle, right, always terrible, but it's particularly terrible

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Speaker 1: at the moment. There's a war going on in Australia.

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Speaker 1: We've got a particular time of some terrible crimes against women,

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Speaker 1: So there's a lot of bleakness and despair, and I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of people are finding it very high

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Speaker 1: to know how to process that. Is that emotional exhaustion

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Speaker 1: that we're feeling. I've heard the term compassion fatigue.

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Speaker 3: Yes, compassion fatigue falls under emotional rest deficits forms of it.

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Speaker 3: There's so many things that have happened really since twenty twenty,

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Speaker 3: it seems where there's like emotional drain upon emotional drain.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: A big part of that is just understanding just some

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Speaker 3: of the science of trauma and how it affects each

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Speaker 3: of us differently. Some of us can watch the news

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Speaker 3: and these things and it doesn't attach to us as

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Speaker 3: much because we don't have backgrounds maybe that have similar

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Speaker 3: traumas or similar empathic feelings that we've had to process.

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Speaker 3: For some people who've already dealt with trauma, gotten to

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Speaker 3: a place where they are healed enough to be able

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Speaker 3: to experience it and keep moving, to be then reintroduced

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Speaker 3: to it is like having the trauma come back all

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Speaker 3: over again and so I find that we each have

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Speaker 3: to really be responsible for just our emotional environment, what

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Speaker 3: we allow ourselves to be infused in, and be aware

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Speaker 3: that all of that emotional input has an effect on us.

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Speaker 1: Is the hopelessness we feel when we say how this safa,

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Speaker 1: whether in the news, in other parts of the world

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Speaker 1: or in our own lives with the people that we

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Speaker 1: know and love, is that also emotionally exhausting.

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Speaker 2: It is?

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Speaker 3: And you know, the beauty of that is is that

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Speaker 3: because there aren't hard things that happen in the world

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Speaker 3: that we don't want to turn a blind eye to,

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Speaker 3: we want to be aware of and we want to

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Speaker 3: see how we can be a part of the solution

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Speaker 3: if we can in any way. But that's where some

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Speaker 3: of the other types of rest that I'll mention just

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Speaker 3: briefly here because they kind of fit in. One is

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Speaker 3: spiritual rest. I know, oftentimes when I have conversations with

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Speaker 3: if I'm speaking with companies or at a group and

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Speaker 3: I mentioned spiritual rest, very often people automatically kind of

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Speaker 3: divert off to the religion part of it. But spiritual

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Speaker 3: rest that is very core is the sense that we

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Speaker 3: all have that we need belonging and we need love

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Speaker 3: and that we want to feel accepted and that our

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Speaker 3: life has meaning and purpose. So when you're seeing some

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Speaker 3: of these hard things, a part of spiritual rest is

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Speaker 3: the filling up that we get when we know that

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Speaker 3: we have a part to play. So what is your

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Speaker 3: part to play in some of the things that you see,

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Speaker 3: because sometimes that helps restore us because we see that.

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Speaker 3: You know, I may not be able to travel and

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Speaker 3: be boots on the ground, so to speak, in some

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Speaker 3: of these places, but I can be an advocate. I

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Speaker 3: can speak up for the voiceless. I can give funds

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Speaker 3: to organizations that are boots on the ground and supporting.

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Speaker 3: You know, what is it that you can do that

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Speaker 3: really helps you to see the humanity part of it?

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Speaker 3: And how the spiritual connection you can have with another

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Speaker 3: person maybe around the world, who is in me that

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Speaker 3: you can be of service to.

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Speaker 1: That's so interesting.

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Speaker 3: What taxes us spiritually when we don't feel like our

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Speaker 3: life has meaning. I find that one of the biggest

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Speaker 3: spiritual disconnects that with a lot of people, particularly people

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Speaker 3: who even say that they're atheist or that they don't

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Speaker 3: have a spiritual belief system or a religious belief system

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Speaker 3: at all. Is that all of us want to know

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Speaker 3: that we are giving to the greater good. We want

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Speaker 3: to know that our life has some type of value

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Speaker 3: that we're contributing to the greater good. And so we're

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Speaker 3: seeing when people don't have that, when they feel like

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Speaker 3: they are just kind of if they're not here, it

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Speaker 3: wouldn't matter, you know, they're not really connecting with other people,

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Speaker 3: that things start losing. The love of life is what

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Speaker 3: I call it, the zest of life, that thing that

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Speaker 3: actually really makes you want to get up out of

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Speaker 3: bed every day because you see it as something bigger

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Speaker 3: than just you going through the day by yourself.

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Speaker 1: Sensory rest is a really interesting one. I think we

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Speaker 1: live in a world where we've never been more sensorially stimulated.

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Speaker 1: What taxes our senses in an average.

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Speaker 3: Day, everything basically that we use, from our phones to

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Speaker 3: our computers, to the lights and the noise that we

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Speaker 3: have in our home, whether it's the refrigerators making noise

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Speaker 3: or our TVs that are playing, to the hut of

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Speaker 3: horns that are you know, on our commute do and

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Speaker 3: from work. There's constant sounds in our environment. And I

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Speaker 3: think when you start thinking about just when you're sitting

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Speaker 3: at your desk. Let's say, if you're at an office,

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Speaker 3: are you hearing other people talking in other rooms? You're

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Speaker 3: a nurse, are you hearing ventilators going off of your teacher?

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Speaker 2: Are you hearing.

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Speaker 3: Background noise in the halls and the other classes. If

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Speaker 3: you're a pilot, are you hearing the droning of the

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Speaker 3: plane all day long? All of these things have an

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Speaker 3: effect on not only how we experience sensory overload, but

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Speaker 3: also how our personalities sometimes respond to that. Quite a

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Speaker 3: few people, when they become sensory overwhelmed, actually experience irritation, agitation, rage,

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Speaker 3: or anger. That is their psychological response to the sensory overwhelm.

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Speaker 3: A lot of people use terms like zoom, fatigue and

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Speaker 3: terms like that, and that's really what they're experiencing, a

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Speaker 3: sensory rest deficit.

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Speaker 1: I've been thinking about scrolling as you're talking, how in

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Speaker 1: many ways people use to rest scrolling through the phone,

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Speaker 1: scrolling social media, but you never feel very rested after

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Speaker 1: you do it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's escapism, is what I call that. The same

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Speaker 3: thing about netflixing and chill laying around watching a series

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Speaker 3: on TV where you just kind of zone out a

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Speaker 3: little bit. Scrolling is a lot like zoning out. You

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Speaker 3: get to escape a moment into the scroll or to

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Speaker 3: the TV show, and it's not very RESTful because it

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Speaker 3: actually doesn't tap into the place of your deficit. You know,

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Speaker 3: you can get a little bit of creative rest if

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Speaker 3: you're watching a movie and it inspires you in some way,

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Speaker 3: or maybe something online that your scrolling inspires you. So yes,

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Speaker 3: you potentially could get some creative rest there. But normally

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Speaker 3: we're not actually even approaching it in that way. We're

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Speaker 3: approaching it just to kind of have a moment to

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Speaker 3: escape from all the other things that have been going

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Speaker 3: on in our life.

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Speaker 1: I'll be honest, I'm not so sure about that one

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Speaker 1: because I find that I do you get a kind

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Speaker 1: of rest when I'm say, watching Bridgitton in bed, but

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Speaker 1: doom scrolling on my phone, well, that's yes, definitely an

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Speaker 1: energy drain. Here's more from Saundra about creative rest, which

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Speaker 1: is very close to my heart. When you talk about

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Speaker 1: creative rest and expending energy creatively, what does that look like.

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Speaker 1: I've heard you talk about problem solving, which I never

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Speaker 1: thought about as being a form of creative energy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's the problem so many of us use

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Speaker 3: an excessive amount of creative energy, but we don't think

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Speaker 3: of ourselves as creative. We have more entrepreneurs in the

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Speaker 3: world now than ever, which is a creative process. You

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Speaker 3: have to be creative to create a product, present a product,

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Speaker 3: make courses, whatever it is that you're doing. Problem solving.

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Speaker 3: If you're balancing schedules, if you're peering and you've got

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Speaker 3: two kids in different activities and you're trying to balance

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Speaker 3: these schedules out, that requires creative energy. If your finances

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Speaker 3: are not the best right now because of the economy,

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Speaker 3: and you're balancing your checkbook, that requires creative energy. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's not just the artists and the musicians and the painters. Yes, absolutely,

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Speaker 3: we know they're using creative energy. All of us are

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Speaker 3: using creative energy all day long to some degree, and

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Speaker 3: because we don't appreciate our own creative nature, we ignore

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Speaker 3: the fact that we need to be inspired to keep

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Speaker 3: our level of innovation intact. That's one of the things

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Speaker 3: that when we work with companies that is a big

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Speaker 3: part of it is that everybody wants their employees to

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Speaker 3: be more innovative, but no one's taking into account how

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Speaker 3: do you help them to build that part of themselves

436
00:22:49,327 --> 00:22:52,527
Speaker 3: back up because it wasn't trained when they got their MBAs.

437
00:22:52,767 --> 00:22:54,847
Speaker 3: So you have to equip them to be able to

438
00:22:54,927 --> 00:22:59,247
Speaker 3: understand how to even remain and become more creative.

439
00:22:59,127 --> 00:23:01,207
Speaker 1: Because a lot of people think, oh, well, if I

440
00:23:01,247 --> 00:23:03,687
Speaker 1: need creative rest, I'll go and take an out class,

441
00:23:03,807 --> 00:23:07,807
Speaker 1: or I'll go and learn to play an instrument. But

442
00:23:07,887 --> 00:23:09,127
Speaker 1: you say, that's not creative.

443
00:23:10,047 --> 00:23:12,887
Speaker 2: No, that's actually putting a demand on your creativity.

444
00:23:13,007 --> 00:23:15,127
Speaker 1: That's expending creative energy.

445
00:23:15,047 --> 00:23:19,287
Speaker 3: Exactly, You're using creative energy. However, I do love those

446
00:23:19,327 --> 00:23:22,927
Speaker 3: two activities you just mentioned because for some people they

447
00:23:22,967 --> 00:23:26,887
Speaker 3: are how they get emotional rest, because in that moment

448
00:23:26,967 --> 00:23:30,447
Speaker 3: of creating that art or learning to strum the guitar

449
00:23:30,727 --> 00:23:34,247
Speaker 3: or play the piano, you are learning how to release

450
00:23:34,447 --> 00:23:37,887
Speaker 3: whatever feelings are inside of you in that moment without

451
00:23:37,927 --> 00:23:41,287
Speaker 3: fear of judgment, because whatever art you created is the

452
00:23:41,407 --> 00:23:44,007
Speaker 3: art you create, and it's really for you, not for

453
00:23:44,047 --> 00:23:47,447
Speaker 3: anybody else to enjoy. And so for a lot of people,

454
00:23:47,527 --> 00:23:50,287
Speaker 3: that can be a moment of emotional rest because it

455
00:23:50,327 --> 00:23:52,247
Speaker 3: may be one of the few times that they are

456
00:23:52,287 --> 00:23:56,447
Speaker 3: truly authentically sharing a part of themselves without their filter.

457
00:23:57,207 --> 00:24:01,647
Speaker 1: Talk about social rest what expends our social energy these days.

458
00:24:01,687 --> 00:24:06,807
Speaker 2: People, So people are draining. So that's the thing most.

459
00:24:07,807 --> 00:24:10,767
Speaker 1: Yes, ah, they're really draining.

460
00:24:11,287 --> 00:24:13,447
Speaker 3: And usually the people you love the most or the

461
00:24:13,447 --> 00:24:16,207
Speaker 3: most draining true because they need something from you.

462
00:24:16,287 --> 00:24:18,567
Speaker 2: I mean my kids. I adore my sons.

463
00:24:18,567 --> 00:24:22,127
Speaker 3: They're both teenagers now, both graduated off, you know, headed

464
00:24:22,167 --> 00:24:25,207
Speaker 3: off to college. I adore them, but they're dreaming. They're

465
00:24:25,207 --> 00:24:27,687
Speaker 3: the people who need me the most, they require the

466
00:24:27,727 --> 00:24:30,887
Speaker 3: most from me. It's the same with our spouses, our colleagues,

467
00:24:30,927 --> 00:24:33,527
Speaker 3: the people we work with are for and so we

468
00:24:33,607 --> 00:24:35,607
Speaker 3: then have to look at who are the people in

469
00:24:35,647 --> 00:24:39,007
Speaker 3: our life that don't need anything from us? And for

470
00:24:39,047 --> 00:24:41,527
Speaker 3: a lot of people, they can't name two people who

471
00:24:41,567 --> 00:24:45,087
Speaker 3: don't need anything from them. True friends where you just

472
00:24:45,207 --> 00:24:47,847
Speaker 3: hang out and you have fun and it's life giving

473
00:24:48,247 --> 00:24:49,767
Speaker 3: and they're pouring back into you.

474
00:24:50,247 --> 00:24:52,447
Speaker 2: That's really what social rest is about.

475
00:24:53,007 --> 00:24:56,527
Speaker 3: And so those relationships that are putting demands on you,

476
00:24:56,727 --> 00:24:59,407
Speaker 3: that's what drains it. And then looking at who are

477
00:24:59,447 --> 00:25:00,967
Speaker 3: the people that pour back into you.

478
00:25:01,607 --> 00:25:03,887
Speaker 1: On the note of pouring back in and draining, I

479
00:25:03,887 --> 00:25:06,567
Speaker 1: think it's so important. One of the things that you

480
00:25:06,647 --> 00:25:09,167
Speaker 1: say that blew my mind when I first heard it is.

481
00:25:10,127 --> 00:25:14,167
Speaker 1: People think that rest is about stopping doing things, but

482
00:25:14,287 --> 00:25:18,607
Speaker 1: in actual fact, it's not. Necessarily it's about doing things.

483
00:25:18,687 --> 00:25:22,127
Speaker 1: So we think of the seven different aspects that you've

484
00:25:22,167 --> 00:25:27,447
Speaker 1: talked about as buckets that are being constantly drained. To rest,

485
00:25:27,727 --> 00:25:30,407
Speaker 1: we have to fill them.

486
00:25:30,247 --> 00:25:33,727
Speaker 3: Right, yes, And that is the mindset shift that I

487
00:25:33,727 --> 00:25:37,247
Speaker 3: think people have the hardest time with. When I mentioned rest,

488
00:25:37,447 --> 00:25:41,887
Speaker 3: and automatically most people think of stopping cessation. It's like, oh,

489
00:25:41,927 --> 00:25:43,447
Speaker 3: I need to stop something. I need to go on

490
00:25:43,527 --> 00:25:46,247
Speaker 3: vacation or sabbatical, or I need to quit my job,

491
00:25:46,407 --> 00:25:50,207
Speaker 3: or some other idea of cessation, calling it quits and

492
00:25:50,247 --> 00:25:53,247
Speaker 3: stopping it all. With rest, what I'm referring to is

493
00:25:53,287 --> 00:25:56,887
Speaker 3: really about pouring back into the places of depletion. So

494
00:25:56,927 --> 00:25:59,807
Speaker 3: it's not stopping, it's finding what fills all of these

495
00:25:59,847 --> 00:26:03,887
Speaker 3: areas back up, What gets my physical energy back up,

496
00:26:04,287 --> 00:26:07,447
Speaker 3: what gets my mental energy filled back up. All of

497
00:26:07,487 --> 00:26:10,887
Speaker 3: these areas get used through throughout the day in certain ways,

498
00:26:11,207 --> 00:26:16,367
Speaker 3: depending on our careers, depending on our lifestyles, our family situations.

499
00:26:16,767 --> 00:26:19,327
Speaker 3: Some of these you probably have filled all the time

500
00:26:19,407 --> 00:26:23,247
Speaker 3: because you've already learned mechanisms for keeping those levels high.

501
00:26:23,607 --> 00:26:25,687
Speaker 3: For some of us, one or two of these seven

502
00:26:25,767 --> 00:26:28,487
Speaker 3: might be areas we've never even thought about. Yeah, and

503
00:26:28,527 --> 00:26:30,847
Speaker 3: so if you've never thought about it, chances are you're

504
00:26:30,887 --> 00:26:32,647
Speaker 3: not doing anything to keep it filled either.

505
00:26:33,047 --> 00:26:35,687
Speaker 1: The first time this occurred to me, this idea, before

506
00:26:35,727 --> 00:26:38,367
Speaker 1: I even had your structure, was when someone explained to

507
00:26:38,407 --> 00:26:40,847
Speaker 1: me that there are two types of burnout for creative people.

508
00:26:41,127 --> 00:26:44,487
Speaker 1: There's the burnout of actual physical hours and too much work.

509
00:26:44,527 --> 00:26:47,847
Speaker 1: But then there's the burnout of repetition and doing the

510
00:26:47,847 --> 00:26:50,687
Speaker 1: same thing again and again until you're bored. And if

511
00:26:50,727 --> 00:26:55,807
Speaker 1: you're bored creatively, that is exhausting. So ironically, doing something new,

512
00:26:55,887 --> 00:26:59,967
Speaker 1: doing something more, doing something extra can make you feel

513
00:27:00,047 --> 00:27:02,647
Speaker 1: more rested and give you more creative energy.

514
00:27:03,007 --> 00:27:06,327
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and with creative rants that's the thing. Well, it's

515
00:27:06,367 --> 00:27:08,287
Speaker 3: why it's so different. You know, a lot of people

516
00:27:08,327 --> 00:27:11,007
Speaker 3: ask me what them book Sacred Rest, I give examples

517
00:27:11,047 --> 00:27:12,887
Speaker 3: for each of these seven how to get more of

518
00:27:13,247 --> 00:27:15,807
Speaker 3: and people will say, well, what about this, wouldn't this qualify?

519
00:27:16,207 --> 00:27:18,567
Speaker 3: It's like the number of ways of getting rest in

520
00:27:18,607 --> 00:27:22,927
Speaker 3: each area is endless. It's as individual as there are people.

521
00:27:23,327 --> 00:27:26,407
Speaker 3: It's a matter of awakening to the fact that there

522
00:27:26,407 --> 00:27:30,127
Speaker 3: are places you may not be getting restoration in and

523
00:27:30,167 --> 00:27:34,047
Speaker 3: then seeking out what fills you back up, because creatively,

524
00:27:34,087 --> 00:27:36,687
Speaker 3: one person, it may be going to the theater and

525
00:27:36,727 --> 00:27:40,447
Speaker 3: actually appreciating art in that way. To another person, it

526
00:27:40,527 --> 00:27:43,687
Speaker 3: might be appreciating natural beauty, going out to the lake,

527
00:27:44,007 --> 00:27:46,087
Speaker 3: or going out to the ocean and just looking at

528
00:27:46,127 --> 00:27:49,887
Speaker 3: the vastness, or staring at the eclipse, looking at the stars.

529
00:27:50,247 --> 00:27:53,687
Speaker 3: There's so many different ways that people get filled up,

530
00:27:54,127 --> 00:27:56,847
Speaker 3: and we then have to take the judgment off of

531
00:27:56,887 --> 00:27:59,567
Speaker 3: how people get rest and allow people to get it

532
00:27:59,647 --> 00:28:01,487
Speaker 3: whatever way is beneficial for them.

533
00:28:02,007 --> 00:28:04,887
Speaker 1: I was thinking about social rest in this context because

534
00:28:04,927 --> 00:28:08,887
Speaker 1: an introvert, for example, as I understand it, finds it

535
00:28:08,927 --> 00:28:12,647
Speaker 1: very training being with people, and they get rest socially

536
00:28:12,727 --> 00:28:16,927
Speaker 1: by being alone, whereas an extrovert finds it training being

537
00:28:16,967 --> 00:28:21,087
Speaker 1: alone and gets energy from being with people. So, as

538
00:28:21,127 --> 00:28:25,247
Speaker 1: you say, there's no sort of blueprint for everybody, what

539
00:28:25,287 --> 00:28:28,487
Speaker 1: do you do observe your own feelings after a certain situation.

540
00:28:28,927 --> 00:28:32,567
Speaker 3: Absolutely there's a high level of self awareness and really

541
00:28:32,647 --> 00:28:37,287
Speaker 3: personal leadership and being able to understand what you're needing

542
00:28:37,327 --> 00:28:40,167
Speaker 3: to be the best version of yourself. As you mentioned,

543
00:28:40,167 --> 00:28:45,407
Speaker 3: introverts tend to enjoy smaller connections or fewer connections with people.

544
00:28:45,767 --> 00:28:48,527
Speaker 3: But even introverts have to have some life giving people

545
00:28:48,527 --> 00:28:52,287
Speaker 3: in their life. They just tend to like deeper, more connected,

546
00:28:52,447 --> 00:28:56,007
Speaker 3: more intimate type relationships, and so they tend to have

547
00:28:56,087 --> 00:28:59,527
Speaker 3: one or two people they're really close with, whereas extroverts

548
00:28:59,567 --> 00:29:02,927
Speaker 3: still need those people, those life givers, but they're often

549
00:29:03,047 --> 00:29:05,327
Speaker 3: the people who will get a group of life giving

550
00:29:05,567 --> 00:29:09,287
Speaker 3: friends together and have a party around it. And so

551
00:29:09,527 --> 00:29:12,847
Speaker 3: both need people. The number of people that they like

552
00:29:12,967 --> 00:29:16,167
Speaker 3: to have that deeper level connection with tends to be different,

553
00:29:16,607 --> 00:29:20,967
Speaker 3: and then how they enjoy the engagement, whether it's more

554
00:29:20,967 --> 00:29:23,487
Speaker 3: intimate or if it's more of a party vibe.

555
00:29:24,367 --> 00:29:27,487
Speaker 1: I remember during COVID, one of the things that people

556
00:29:27,607 --> 00:29:30,287
Speaker 1: said is how exhausted they were, and everyone was quite

557
00:29:30,287 --> 00:29:32,567
Speaker 1: baffled by that because we were mostly just locked in

558
00:29:32,607 --> 00:29:35,807
Speaker 1: our houses doing nothing. We weren't able to run around,

559
00:29:35,807 --> 00:29:37,767
Speaker 1: we weren't able to see anyone, we weren't able to

560
00:29:38,447 --> 00:29:41,687
Speaker 1: in many cases even physically exercise. Why were we so

561
00:29:41,887 --> 00:29:44,047
Speaker 1: tired over that period?

562
00:29:44,567 --> 00:29:47,887
Speaker 3: Yeah, I must have met the seven types of rest

563
00:29:47,967 --> 00:29:51,647
Speaker 3: framework in my book Sacred Rest. More people found out

564
00:29:51,687 --> 00:29:54,807
Speaker 3: about it during COVID, which is the exact opposite of

565
00:29:54,847 --> 00:29:57,447
Speaker 3: what you would think, as you mentioned, because people were

566
00:29:57,487 --> 00:30:00,567
Speaker 3: literally living the dream. They were working from home and

567
00:30:00,607 --> 00:30:03,967
Speaker 3: their pajamas is what every person in the world said

568
00:30:04,007 --> 00:30:06,087
Speaker 3: they wanted to do, and then once it happened, they

569
00:30:06,087 --> 00:30:08,767
Speaker 3: were like, this is tiring. And a big part of

570
00:30:08,767 --> 00:30:11,687
Speaker 3: that is be because we lost dollar boundaries. Being able

571
00:30:11,727 --> 00:30:15,007
Speaker 3: to physically go into the office then hop in your

572
00:30:15,007 --> 00:30:18,647
Speaker 3: car and come home set some really definite work life

573
00:30:18,647 --> 00:30:22,287
Speaker 3: boundaries that helped us be able to maintain some level

574
00:30:22,327 --> 00:30:26,327
Speaker 3: of work life integration. However, when the natural boundaries were

575
00:30:26,327 --> 00:30:30,567
Speaker 3: removed and then we had to personally manage our own boundaries,

576
00:30:30,887 --> 00:30:33,207
Speaker 3: we had no frame of reference for that. No one

577
00:30:33,287 --> 00:30:37,287
Speaker 3: knew how to have good, healthy personal work life boundaries.

578
00:30:37,527 --> 00:30:41,007
Speaker 3: Things started filtering over. People wouldn't take breaks where you

579
00:30:41,007 --> 00:30:43,487
Speaker 3: would take a break at work because you know, you

580
00:30:43,567 --> 00:30:45,887
Speaker 3: got us nine to five, you get the two fifteen

581
00:30:45,927 --> 00:30:48,647
Speaker 3: minute breaks. People would take them at home. It's like

582
00:30:48,807 --> 00:30:51,327
Speaker 3: I'm on the break, So nobody would even do that,

583
00:30:51,887 --> 00:30:54,087
Speaker 3: you know, Zoom or teams or whatever it was people

584
00:30:54,127 --> 00:30:57,167
Speaker 3: were using. It felt like it was easier, but we

585
00:30:57,247 --> 00:31:01,287
Speaker 3: didn't realize how much sensory overload we were experiencing when

586
00:31:01,327 --> 00:31:04,567
Speaker 3: we were setting in those meetings with fifteen screens showing

587
00:31:04,567 --> 00:31:08,527
Speaker 3: different people's backgrounds. We didn't realize how draining that was,

588
00:31:09,287 --> 00:31:11,767
Speaker 3: and we weren't stopping because we thought, oh, well, we're

589
00:31:11,767 --> 00:31:14,207
Speaker 3: sitting in our chair, why should I be tired. There

590
00:31:14,287 --> 00:31:17,287
Speaker 3: was just no frame of reference of how to manage that.

591
00:31:20,687 --> 00:31:24,567
Speaker 1: And now that the pandemic is thankfully behind us, more

592
00:31:24,687 --> 00:31:28,687
Speaker 1: or less, there has been a remainder of hybrid work

593
00:31:28,847 --> 00:31:31,367
Speaker 1: for a lot of people who are in office based jobs.

594
00:31:32,327 --> 00:31:34,967
Speaker 1: And I've read a lot about for perhaps some of

595
00:31:35,007 --> 00:31:39,367
Speaker 1: the reasons you say they're still feeling very tired even

596
00:31:39,487 --> 00:31:42,287
Speaker 1: though they are even more now living the dream in

597
00:31:42,367 --> 00:31:44,527
Speaker 1: saying I've got certain days at work, I've got certain

598
00:31:44,607 --> 00:31:45,247
Speaker 1: days at home.

599
00:31:45,567 --> 00:31:51,167
Speaker 3: Why is that most companies are really good at asking

600
00:31:51,207 --> 00:31:53,687
Speaker 3: people what it is that they desire to have to

601
00:31:53,967 --> 00:31:56,727
Speaker 3: be happy at their job and to remain What I

602
00:31:56,847 --> 00:31:59,167
Speaker 3: find is they don't really do a great job at

603
00:31:59,247 --> 00:32:01,767
Speaker 3: equipping them to be able to manage it in such

604
00:32:01,767 --> 00:32:05,247
Speaker 3: a way that it actually helps them to still feel energized.

605
00:32:05,927 --> 00:32:08,607
Speaker 3: Most of the time when we are working with the company.

606
00:32:08,647 --> 00:32:11,687
Speaker 3: What I'm finding when we do our initial assessment is

607
00:32:11,727 --> 00:32:15,167
Speaker 3: that the people within the company, they are passionate, usually

608
00:32:15,167 --> 00:32:17,967
Speaker 3: about the work they're doing, but they don't actually have

609
00:32:18,207 --> 00:32:21,807
Speaker 3: energy for what they're passionate about. So they're showing up

610
00:32:21,847 --> 00:32:25,487
Speaker 3: with their exhaustion. They're showing up as what we call

611
00:32:25,567 --> 00:32:29,167
Speaker 3: functional burnouts. They're in their seat, they're present, they're smiling

612
00:32:29,207 --> 00:32:31,807
Speaker 3: at the meetings, but they don't have any joy for

613
00:32:31,887 --> 00:32:35,327
Speaker 3: the work anymore. Their body feels bad even as they're

614
00:32:35,367 --> 00:32:38,447
Speaker 3: sitting in the chair. They don't even feel good as

615
00:32:38,447 --> 00:32:41,287
Speaker 3: they're sitting there doing the work. And when the work

616
00:32:41,327 --> 00:32:43,367
Speaker 3: is over, the work is not even at the highest

617
00:32:43,367 --> 00:32:46,887
Speaker 3: capacity of what they're capable of. It's just good enough.

618
00:32:46,927 --> 00:32:49,807
Speaker 3: It's what they can produce from their exhaustion. And so

619
00:32:49,887 --> 00:32:52,927
Speaker 3: I find that for a lot of people that are

620
00:32:53,047 --> 00:32:56,407
Speaker 3: making this transition, to be able to understand why they're

621
00:32:56,407 --> 00:33:01,007
Speaker 3: feeling that way, it's requiring them to begin with understanding

622
00:33:01,647 --> 00:33:04,407
Speaker 3: first what type of time that they actually are and

623
00:33:04,487 --> 00:33:07,167
Speaker 3: begin to do some habit stacking so that they can

624
00:33:07,247 --> 00:33:10,927
Speaker 3: integrate restorative practices in the middle of their busy day.

625
00:33:11,327 --> 00:33:13,847
Speaker 3: Not trying to find time for rest, not trying to

626
00:33:14,167 --> 00:33:16,887
Speaker 3: carve out time, because there isn't any extra time, it

627
00:33:17,007 --> 00:33:20,127
Speaker 3: just is what it is, but actually using the time

628
00:33:20,127 --> 00:33:23,407
Speaker 3: that they already have at work and layering in some

629
00:33:23,567 --> 00:33:27,487
Speaker 3: restorative practices so that they naturally start doing some of

630
00:33:27,567 --> 00:33:29,487
Speaker 3: these things without thinking about it.

631
00:33:29,727 --> 00:33:32,207
Speaker 1: What are some examples. I've heard you talk about one

632
00:33:32,247 --> 00:33:36,567
Speaker 1: workplace where they made everybody have the same neutral zoom background.

633
00:33:37,007 --> 00:33:39,367
Speaker 3: That's a simple one I think every company should do

634
00:33:39,567 --> 00:33:42,647
Speaker 3: to begin with, because when you think about it, in

635
00:33:42,687 --> 00:33:45,287
Speaker 3: the old days, when we were all going into offices

636
00:33:45,367 --> 00:33:48,607
Speaker 3: and sitting around to have a board meeting, everybody's in

637
00:33:48,607 --> 00:33:52,327
Speaker 3: the same room. We're all seeing the same sensory input. Now,

638
00:33:52,487 --> 00:33:54,767
Speaker 3: if you got ten people on your board that you're

639
00:33:54,807 --> 00:33:59,327
Speaker 3: sitting with, every single screen has a different image around it.

640
00:33:59,567 --> 00:34:03,247
Speaker 3: The wallpaper, the bed in the background, the bookshelf, whatever

641
00:34:03,287 --> 00:34:03,687
Speaker 3: it is.

642
00:34:03,767 --> 00:34:05,527
Speaker 1: Slatmate walking past into towel.

643
00:34:05,847 --> 00:34:08,967
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you're looking at all of this stuff in

644
00:34:09,007 --> 00:34:12,127
Speaker 3: your brain is processing it. Whether you are trying to

645
00:34:12,207 --> 00:34:15,407
Speaker 3: process it or not. It naturally is processing it, which

646
00:34:15,447 --> 00:34:18,087
Speaker 3: is exhausting. And so when you change it just to

647
00:34:18,167 --> 00:34:21,447
Speaker 3: a uniform background that your entire team or companies are using,

648
00:34:21,847 --> 00:34:25,567
Speaker 3: it recreates being in a room together because everybody's seeing

649
00:34:25,607 --> 00:34:28,887
Speaker 3: the same thing. Another example would be for those who

650
00:34:28,967 --> 00:34:33,727
Speaker 3: are trying to have more creativity and staying inspired. Think

651
00:34:33,727 --> 00:34:37,167
Speaker 3: about what are the images that actually make you feel inspired.

652
00:34:37,607 --> 00:34:41,567
Speaker 3: Whether it's images of the beach or beautiful locations, or

653
00:34:41,607 --> 00:34:46,647
Speaker 3: beautiful architecture or pictures, or it could be videos of something,

654
00:34:46,687 --> 00:34:50,407
Speaker 3: whatever it is, start bringing some of those elements actually

655
00:34:50,487 --> 00:34:51,647
Speaker 3: into your environment.

656
00:34:52,247 --> 00:34:55,047
Speaker 1: I hope you're loving this conversation as much as I am,

657
00:34:55,487 --> 00:34:57,407
Speaker 1: and I hope you can understand why I was so

658
00:34:57,527 --> 00:35:01,487
Speaker 1: excited to bring Sondra into your ears and these concept

659
00:35:01,527 --> 00:35:04,207
Speaker 1: of seven types of rest. I've been feeling a lot

660
00:35:04,247 --> 00:35:07,807
Speaker 1: of fatigue lately over the past year, and particularly over

661
00:35:07,847 --> 00:35:11,047
Speaker 1: the last few months, so of course I'm going to

662
00:35:11,087 --> 00:35:14,327
Speaker 1: use this opportunity to ask the brilliant doctor an expert

663
00:35:14,767 --> 00:35:18,607
Speaker 1: about my own habits and discuss my own results from

664
00:35:18,647 --> 00:35:31,247
Speaker 1: the rest quiz that she's created. Yeah, I am tired, Soandra,

665
00:35:31,327 --> 00:35:33,807
Speaker 1: I want to ask you about a particular habit of

666
00:35:33,847 --> 00:35:37,927
Speaker 1: mine that everybody at work tases me for. But I

667
00:35:38,047 --> 00:35:41,087
Speaker 1: move my office furniture around a lot. I find it

668
00:35:41,087 --> 00:35:43,607
Speaker 1: does something for me. I'm not quite sure what what.

669
00:35:43,607 --> 00:35:47,607
Speaker 3: Is that about that makes me think about specifically an

670
00:35:47,607 --> 00:35:51,727
Speaker 3: emotional type of Uh. It's almost like art, because you

671
00:35:51,767 --> 00:35:55,527
Speaker 3: think about interior design, it's a form of art. Basically

672
00:35:55,567 --> 00:35:59,207
Speaker 3: it's a form of creativity. So you're using creative energy

673
00:35:59,287 --> 00:36:01,207
Speaker 3: in that moment because you're thinking, what this will look

674
00:36:01,287 --> 00:36:03,927
Speaker 3: better here. But you're also in the moment being able

675
00:36:04,007 --> 00:36:08,767
Speaker 3: to place things where you feel they belong, which means

676
00:36:08,767 --> 00:36:11,647
Speaker 3: you're being able to express your feelings in some way

677
00:36:11,687 --> 00:36:15,247
Speaker 3: because you get to determine this feels right in this

678
00:36:15,527 --> 00:36:18,367
Speaker 3: place here, wherever you move it to, or whatever you

679
00:36:18,447 --> 00:36:21,687
Speaker 3: exchange out. I find the same thing for people who

680
00:36:22,007 --> 00:36:25,527
Speaker 3: sometimes will say something just doesn't feel right, and they'll

681
00:36:25,567 --> 00:36:27,447
Speaker 3: go in and they'll change their outfit and come back

682
00:36:27,527 --> 00:36:28,887
Speaker 3: out with something else.

683
00:36:29,087 --> 00:36:29,807
Speaker 1: I do that too.

684
00:36:30,007 --> 00:36:33,887
Speaker 3: It's connecting with your authentic self. It's like, authentically, this

685
00:36:34,047 --> 00:36:37,807
Speaker 3: is not representing me in this moment, and I choose me.

686
00:36:38,007 --> 00:36:40,687
Speaker 3: I'm going to be represented, and I'm going to rearrange

687
00:36:40,727 --> 00:36:45,487
Speaker 3: whatever has to be rearranged to adequately and authentically reflect me,

688
00:36:46,047 --> 00:36:48,287
Speaker 3: which is basically at the core of emotional rest.

689
00:36:48,607 --> 00:36:52,167
Speaker 1: That's so interesting. So something that feels soothing to you

690
00:36:53,087 --> 00:36:56,767
Speaker 1: on a basic level or RESTful, it's interesting to think

691
00:36:56,767 --> 00:36:58,887
Speaker 1: about what kind of rest that might be. It might

692
00:36:58,887 --> 00:37:02,087
Speaker 1: be creative rest, it might be mental rest. Are there

693
00:37:02,127 --> 00:37:05,407
Speaker 1: particular times in a woman's life where she's most likely

694
00:37:05,447 --> 00:37:11,767
Speaker 1: to feel exhausted. I'm thinking about childbirth, to little kids, divorce, manipause.

695
00:37:12,487 --> 00:37:16,087
Speaker 3: Honestly, I would probably answer that by saying transition of

696
00:37:16,127 --> 00:37:21,087
Speaker 3: any sort, because any type of transition, the change itself

697
00:37:21,567 --> 00:37:26,407
Speaker 3: puts a level of stress that requires a reevaluation of

698
00:37:26,447 --> 00:37:30,087
Speaker 3: what rest is needed now, and I think too often

699
00:37:30,207 --> 00:37:33,527
Speaker 3: we get in our habits where like for myself, I

700
00:37:33,607 --> 00:37:36,007
Speaker 3: knew that I needed emotional rest, that was the one

701
00:37:36,007 --> 00:37:40,327
Speaker 3: that was deficient. However, when I started transitioning into like

702
00:37:40,407 --> 00:37:42,367
Speaker 3: right now, I spend a whole lot of time on

703
00:37:42,407 --> 00:37:46,527
Speaker 3: the road, traveling to speak at conferences and with organizations.

704
00:37:47,047 --> 00:37:50,567
Speaker 3: With that, I now realize that physical rest is one

705
00:37:50,647 --> 00:37:54,487
Speaker 3: I really have to pay more attention to because pulling

706
00:37:54,567 --> 00:37:57,567
Speaker 3: luggage and doing all the different things which I didn't

707
00:37:57,567 --> 00:38:00,647
Speaker 3: have to do when I was in the hospital. And

708
00:38:00,727 --> 00:38:03,847
Speaker 3: so I think any type of transition, good or bad,

709
00:38:04,887 --> 00:38:08,767
Speaker 3: requires us to take a new assessment of what's happening

710
00:38:08,807 --> 00:38:09,607
Speaker 3: right now with me.

711
00:38:09,887 --> 00:38:12,127
Speaker 1: That's so interesting, because you know how people say that

712
00:38:12,247 --> 00:38:16,567
Speaker 1: moving house is very stressful. It's almost like an intersection

713
00:38:16,647 --> 00:38:18,727
Speaker 1: of all the different types of rest because physically it's

714
00:38:18,807 --> 00:38:23,287
Speaker 1: very demanding, and then mentally it's exhausting because all the

715
00:38:23,327 --> 00:38:25,687
Speaker 1: sort of muscle memory you have for reaching for a

716
00:38:25,767 --> 00:38:29,567
Speaker 1: light switch, grabbing a fork, looking for the peanut butter,

717
00:38:30,207 --> 00:38:33,607
Speaker 1: all of that's different. So suddenly you have to engage

718
00:38:33,647 --> 00:38:36,767
Speaker 1: mentally every time you switch on a light or turn

719
00:38:36,807 --> 00:38:39,687
Speaker 1: on a tap or look for a towel, And that

720
00:38:39,727 --> 00:38:42,447
Speaker 1: goes on for a really long time, and then emotionally

721
00:38:42,527 --> 00:38:45,527
Speaker 1: there are feelings about moving from one to the other.

722
00:38:46,487 --> 00:38:49,047
Speaker 1: Is that kind of an example of how you can

723
00:38:49,287 --> 00:38:51,367
Speaker 1: need a lot of different types of rest at once.

724
00:38:51,807 --> 00:38:54,887
Speaker 3: Absolutely, especially as you mentioned, with changes like that, those

725
00:38:54,887 --> 00:38:58,647
Speaker 3: big transitions empty nest. I find a lot of women

726
00:38:58,687 --> 00:39:02,327
Speaker 3: when all the kids are out, and now it's like, Okay,

727
00:39:02,327 --> 00:39:04,207
Speaker 3: what do I do with my attention now that I

728
00:39:04,247 --> 00:39:06,527
Speaker 3: don't have people I'm having to take care of because

729
00:39:06,847 --> 00:39:10,727
Speaker 3: all of these different changes, changes and jobs. There's a

730
00:39:10,847 --> 00:39:14,367
Speaker 3: lot of women who I'm finding now who are stepping

731
00:39:14,487 --> 00:39:17,207
Speaker 3: up in roles and taking on new leadership positions and

732
00:39:17,287 --> 00:39:22,047
Speaker 3: starting their own companies and having to navigate that part

733
00:39:22,087 --> 00:39:25,967
Speaker 3: of it, the advancement within their career and the stressors

734
00:39:25,967 --> 00:39:29,727
Speaker 3: that come with that in realizing a higher level of

735
00:39:29,847 --> 00:39:33,927
Speaker 3: personal managements needed, not just managing people. Yes, that's a

736
00:39:34,047 --> 00:39:37,607
Speaker 3: necessary as well, but actual personal management the level of

737
00:39:37,607 --> 00:39:40,967
Speaker 3: self awareness of what they need so that they can

738
00:39:41,127 --> 00:39:43,167
Speaker 3: continue to grow their company. You know, one of the

739
00:39:43,167 --> 00:39:46,847
Speaker 3: things that I probably get the most upset probably isn't

740
00:39:46,887 --> 00:39:50,407
Speaker 3: the right word distressed, Probably is the right word over

741
00:39:50,767 --> 00:39:53,567
Speaker 3: emails that I get from women who say, I don't

742
00:39:53,567 --> 00:39:55,847
Speaker 3: really know if I want my company to scale or

743
00:39:55,847 --> 00:39:58,087
Speaker 3: to grow, or I don't really know if I want

744
00:39:58,127 --> 00:40:02,007
Speaker 3: to take that new leadership position because I'm already so tired,

745
00:40:02,407 --> 00:40:04,367
Speaker 3: and what is that going to look like if I

746
00:40:04,407 --> 00:40:06,967
Speaker 3: go to the next level. I like want to climb

747
00:40:06,967 --> 00:40:10,047
Speaker 3: through the wall when I hear something like that, that's

748
00:40:10,087 --> 00:40:13,367
Speaker 3: the exact opposite of living a thriving life.

749
00:40:13,487 --> 00:40:14,527
Speaker 1: So what do you tell them?

750
00:40:14,807 --> 00:40:17,007
Speaker 3: What I told them is, hey, let's take a look

751
00:40:17,047 --> 00:40:19,967
Speaker 3: at what's making you feel this way, and let's actually

752
00:40:19,967 --> 00:40:22,287
Speaker 3: get to the root cans of what's holding you back,

753
00:40:22,887 --> 00:40:27,167
Speaker 3: because that thought process of me actually being able to

754
00:40:27,207 --> 00:40:30,687
Speaker 3: be more beneficial to the world does not mean that

755
00:40:30,767 --> 00:40:33,887
Speaker 3: I have to sacrifice more of myself. There is a

756
00:40:33,927 --> 00:40:37,127
Speaker 3: way to actually build and be more fruitful and to

757
00:40:37,247 --> 00:40:40,327
Speaker 3: thrive in your life and not burn out in the process.

758
00:40:40,607 --> 00:40:42,487
Speaker 3: And so as a matter of taking those steps to

759
00:40:42,527 --> 00:40:43,327
Speaker 3: go down that path.

760
00:40:43,687 --> 00:40:48,087
Speaker 1: Well, I did the rest quiz, and oh, I'm not

761
00:40:48,167 --> 00:40:51,727
Speaker 1: doing great. My big outliers my emotional You say that

762
00:40:51,887 --> 00:40:57,647
Speaker 1: anything over a twenty five is bad. You're feeling the

763
00:40:57,687 --> 00:41:00,527
Speaker 1: effects of the rest and you need to change. My

764
00:41:00,607 --> 00:41:04,687
Speaker 1: physical restcore is twenty six, my mental rest score is

765
00:41:04,727 --> 00:41:09,487
Speaker 1: thirty one, My emotional rest score is forty two. My

766
00:41:09,607 --> 00:41:13,367
Speaker 1: spiritual restcore is twenty three. So I'm doing quite well there. Spiritually.

767
00:41:14,447 --> 00:41:17,007
Speaker 1: I think that's since I became a grandmother. I really

768
00:41:17,007 --> 00:41:19,607
Speaker 1: love spending time with my granddaughter. That feels very spiritually

769
00:41:19,647 --> 00:41:21,767
Speaker 1: RESTful in a way that it didn't spending time with

770
00:41:21,847 --> 00:41:24,847
Speaker 1: my own children. There's something about being a grandparent that

771
00:41:25,607 --> 00:41:28,047
Speaker 1: is RESTful, even though it's not physically RESTful, it's RESTful

772
00:41:28,087 --> 00:41:30,887
Speaker 1: in another level. And also I'm very satisfied at work

773
00:41:30,927 --> 00:41:34,167
Speaker 1: in terms of my spiritual knowing my purpose. My social

774
00:41:34,167 --> 00:41:37,527
Speaker 1: restcore is thirty seven, and then my sensory and creative

775
00:41:37,567 --> 00:41:41,007
Speaker 1: rest scores are thirty five. So I've got some work to.

776
00:41:40,927 --> 00:41:43,607
Speaker 3: Do heading toward that and burnt out these. But I mean,

777
00:41:43,607 --> 00:41:45,367
Speaker 3: your number is actually way better than mine. Then I

778
00:41:45,367 --> 00:41:47,447
Speaker 3: would probably say all of mine were probably close to

779
00:41:47,567 --> 00:41:50,567
Speaker 3: forty except for physical I mean, being a doctor is

780
00:41:50,567 --> 00:41:53,887
Speaker 3: not physically demanding. But yeah, my scores at the time

781
00:41:53,887 --> 00:41:56,327
Speaker 3: would have all been in the forties. And I think

782
00:41:56,367 --> 00:41:58,407
Speaker 3: the thing is we have to be aware. It's like

783
00:41:58,447 --> 00:42:01,527
Speaker 3: a snapshot of how you're feeling in the moment, and

784
00:42:01,607 --> 00:42:03,967
Speaker 3: so I always say, use it as a snapshot to

785
00:42:04,087 --> 00:42:07,687
Speaker 3: then look and reflect on what am I doing to

786
00:42:07,847 --> 00:42:10,647
Speaker 3: pour back into the area where I see this deficit,

787
00:42:11,247 --> 00:42:14,047
Speaker 3: because chances are some of those there are not very

788
00:42:14,127 --> 00:42:17,807
Speaker 3: many things you're doing on a consistent basis to pour

789
00:42:17,887 --> 00:42:20,807
Speaker 3: back into those areas, And so then it's just beginning

790
00:42:20,807 --> 00:42:23,447
Speaker 3: to layer some of those into your day, your week,

791
00:42:23,487 --> 00:42:26,047
Speaker 3: your math, depending on your schedule and different things.

792
00:42:26,207 --> 00:42:27,887
Speaker 1: Can you tell me one thing to do for my

793
00:42:27,967 --> 00:42:31,447
Speaker 1: emotional risk goal, which is an ugly forty two what

794
00:42:31,527 --> 00:42:33,527
Speaker 1: can I do to emotionally rest or can you not

795
00:42:33,647 --> 00:42:35,287
Speaker 1: tell that without knowing more.

796
00:42:35,367 --> 00:42:37,767
Speaker 3: Without knowing kind of a little bit more of your background.

797
00:42:37,767 --> 00:42:40,247
Speaker 3: But one of the things I would say is make

798
00:42:40,287 --> 00:42:43,927
Speaker 3: sure there's at least one person in your life. It

799
00:42:43,967 --> 00:42:46,247
Speaker 3: could be a friend, it could be a spouse, it

800
00:42:46,287 --> 00:42:50,127
Speaker 3: could be counselor or therapist, whatever, but one person in

801
00:42:50,167 --> 00:42:53,287
Speaker 3: your life where you never feel like you have to

802
00:42:54,047 --> 00:42:57,687
Speaker 3: pretty up what you say that you can literally say

803
00:42:57,727 --> 00:43:00,487
Speaker 3: it exactly the way you want to say it and

804
00:43:00,647 --> 00:43:02,927
Speaker 3: release it, and I'll just speak for myself. One of

805
00:43:02,967 --> 00:43:06,207
Speaker 3: the things for emotional rest that I had to learn

806
00:43:06,487 --> 00:43:09,207
Speaker 3: that the hardest part for me of emotional rest wasn't

807
00:43:09,367 --> 00:43:14,847
Speaker 3: sharing with people necessarily what I was feeling, like I'm mad,

808
00:43:14,887 --> 00:43:17,527
Speaker 3: I'm sad, all of that, but it was actually a

809
00:43:17,607 --> 00:43:20,647
Speaker 3: deeper level of vulnerability that I had to get to

810
00:43:20,647 --> 00:43:24,087
Speaker 3: to be able to actually feel emotionally rested. So in

811
00:43:24,127 --> 00:43:26,247
Speaker 3: that situation, like if I'm at the bedside with the

812
00:43:26,287 --> 00:43:28,527
Speaker 3: patient and they're dying and all of that, and of

813
00:43:28,527 --> 00:43:31,527
Speaker 3: course I'm sad for them and all telling my husband,

814
00:43:31,647 --> 00:43:33,007
Speaker 3: you know, at the end of the day that made

815
00:43:33,047 --> 00:43:36,847
Speaker 3: me sad didn't help me feel emotionally rested. What actually

816
00:43:36,887 --> 00:43:40,727
Speaker 3: helped me was actually going deeper and telling him what

817
00:43:41,007 --> 00:43:45,087
Speaker 3: the moment did inside of me. Like, for example, I

818
00:43:45,087 --> 00:43:47,487
Speaker 3: remember one time something happened. I don't remember what the

819
00:43:47,527 --> 00:43:50,927
Speaker 3: details were, but I remember saying to him in that moment,

820
00:43:51,007 --> 00:43:54,167
Speaker 3: I felt useless. I felt like all those twelve years

821
00:43:54,167 --> 00:43:57,007
Speaker 3: of medical practice did not tell me what I needed

822
00:43:57,047 --> 00:44:00,207
Speaker 3: to do to help this person. I could do nothing

823
00:44:00,247 --> 00:44:03,287
Speaker 3: but stand there and hold their hand while whatever was

824
00:44:03,367 --> 00:44:05,207
Speaker 3: going on inside of their body, because there was no

825
00:44:05,327 --> 00:44:08,087
Speaker 3: medical science to help me with this. And I was like,

826
00:44:08,167 --> 00:44:11,687
Speaker 3: I felt you, I felt like I had wasted all

827
00:44:11,727 --> 00:44:13,927
Speaker 3: of these years of my life. Now, that was a

828
00:44:13,967 --> 00:44:18,407
Speaker 3: really raw statement to say. And the thing is, it's

829
00:44:18,407 --> 00:44:20,407
Speaker 3: not something he could fix, you know, It's not like

830
00:44:20,447 --> 00:44:21,767
Speaker 3: he could pet me on the back and make it

831
00:44:21,767 --> 00:44:24,327
Speaker 3: all better. But I needed to tell the truth of

832
00:44:24,367 --> 00:44:27,207
Speaker 3: how I felt in that moment, and in saying it,

833
00:44:27,247 --> 00:44:29,567
Speaker 3: there was a freedom. It's like I don't have to

834
00:44:29,647 --> 00:44:33,527
Speaker 3: carry this feeling and feel bad for thinking it. I

835
00:44:33,527 --> 00:44:35,967
Speaker 3: can just say it and be okay with this is

836
00:44:35,967 --> 00:44:37,007
Speaker 3: how I'm feeling in the moment.

837
00:44:37,167 --> 00:44:39,687
Speaker 1: So thank you so much. I've just looked at my

838
00:44:39,687 --> 00:44:42,087
Speaker 1: life in such a different way through the framework of

839
00:44:42,127 --> 00:44:45,207
Speaker 1: your seven types of rest, and it's all I do.

840
00:44:45,287 --> 00:44:48,367
Speaker 1: I just tell everybody about it, and it's made it

841
00:44:48,647 --> 00:44:52,167
Speaker 1: so much easier to replenish, because yeah, I sleep fine.

842
00:44:52,327 --> 00:44:55,287
Speaker 1: Sleep's never been a problem for me, and yet look

843
00:44:55,287 --> 00:44:57,167
Speaker 1: at my burnout. So thank you.

844
00:44:57,407 --> 00:44:59,327
Speaker 2: Oh, I appreciate it's been enjoy chatting with you.

845
00:45:00,207 --> 00:45:03,207
Speaker 1: Well, there we go. Did you have any big aha

846
00:45:03,247 --> 00:45:06,927
Speaker 1: moments listening to that, do you have now maybe a

847
00:45:06,967 --> 00:45:10,087
Speaker 1: better sense of exactly what kind of tired you might

848
00:45:10,167 --> 00:45:13,967
Speaker 1: be and what kind of rest you need. I was

849
00:45:14,007 --> 00:45:16,767
Speaker 1: really struck by the idea of emotional rest and that

850
00:45:16,807 --> 00:45:20,087
Speaker 1: the solution is to make sure that we have relationships

851
00:45:20,127 --> 00:45:22,567
Speaker 1: where we can be our most authentic selves. I'd never

852
00:45:22,607 --> 00:45:25,927
Speaker 1: thought about that before, and I'd never thought about how

853
00:45:25,967 --> 00:45:31,367
Speaker 1: emotionally taxing it is when you can't just be completely yourself.

854
00:45:31,927 --> 00:45:35,967
Speaker 1: And this idea of finding people that don't need anything

855
00:45:35,967 --> 00:45:39,367
Speaker 1: from us except for our vulnerability. I think maybe that's

856
00:45:39,367 --> 00:45:43,607
Speaker 1: why it's so RESTful being around dogs or cats. The

857
00:45:43,647 --> 00:45:45,687
Speaker 1: other thing that I thought was really interesting is when

858
00:45:45,727 --> 00:45:51,047
Speaker 1: she talked about any time of transition is particularly exhausting emotionally,

859
00:45:51,647 --> 00:45:54,567
Speaker 1: and I know that I really felt this at big

860
00:45:54,567 --> 00:45:58,567
Speaker 1: transitional times in my kids' lives as well as my own.

861
00:45:58,647 --> 00:46:01,287
Speaker 1: I guess because they are transitional times in my lives too,

862
00:46:01,447 --> 00:46:04,807
Speaker 1: like when my son left school, and then when he

863
00:46:04,847 --> 00:46:08,527
Speaker 1: moved out of home, when he got married, when my

864
00:46:08,607 --> 00:46:13,927
Speaker 1: daughter finished school. Those times have been really emotional and

865
00:46:14,047 --> 00:46:17,727
Speaker 1: really exhausting. And I never thought about that that the

866
00:46:17,767 --> 00:46:22,367
Speaker 1: idea of transition is emotionally exhausting. It can be so

867
00:46:22,487 --> 00:46:25,487
Speaker 1: hard to figure it out, can't it? Because when you're tired,

868
00:46:26,407 --> 00:46:29,047
Speaker 1: we often need more than one kind of rest. So

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Speaker 1: I highly recommend that you take these rest quiz that

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00:46:32,447 --> 00:46:36,607
Speaker 1: doctor Sandra Tolton Smith has created to help you figure

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00:46:36,647 --> 00:46:38,647
Speaker 1: out where you might have a bit of work to do.

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00:46:39,327 --> 00:46:41,807
Speaker 1: Sondra also has a book, Say co Addressed. If you

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00:46:42,007 --> 00:46:44,207
Speaker 1: want to have a look at that, we'll put a

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00:46:44,207 --> 00:46:46,007
Speaker 1: link to where you can buy it in the show notes.

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00:46:46,327 --> 00:46:48,367
Speaker 1: Do you know I've got a newsletter if you subscribe

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00:46:48,407 --> 00:46:51,007
Speaker 1: to Babbel, I'm writing about the rest quiers this week.

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00:46:51,047 --> 00:46:54,127
Speaker 1: I'll send you a link to it and just detail

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00:46:54,287 --> 00:46:57,367
Speaker 1: all those seven different types of rest in case you

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00:46:57,447 --> 00:47:00,247
Speaker 1: want to be reminded of them, because probably you were

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00:47:00,287 --> 00:47:04,527
Speaker 1: listening to this when you were I don't know, driving, walking, cooking, sleeping, Well,

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00:47:04,527 --> 00:47:07,007
Speaker 1: maybe you need it to sleep. Probably won't remember much

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00:47:07,007 --> 00:47:09,927
Speaker 1: if you're asleep. Anyway, I'll put a link in the

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00:47:09,927 --> 00:47:13,167
Speaker 1: show notes for my Babbel newsletter where I write about

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00:47:13,167 --> 00:47:15,887
Speaker 1: all kinds of things. Off your pop, take the quiz,

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00:47:15,967 --> 00:47:19,847
Speaker 1: call your bestdie, get some rest. This episode was produced

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00:47:19,847 --> 00:47:23,167
Speaker 1: by Kimberly British and Naima Brown, with sound production by

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00:47:23,247 --> 00:47:26,647
Speaker 1: Leah Paul, i'm mea Friedman and good night