1 00:00:10,705 --> 00:00:15,265 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges 2 00:00:15,305 --> 00:00:18,345 Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast 3 00:00:18,465 --> 00:00:22,585 Speaker 1: is recorded on. Whoever said orange is a new pink 4 00:00:22,745 --> 00:00:27,065 Speaker 1: with seriously disturbed laurels for spraying groundbreaking. 5 00:00:26,665 --> 00:00:28,945 Speaker 2: Oh my god, you have to do it. You live 6 00:00:29,025 --> 00:00:29,745 Speaker 2: for fashion. 7 00:00:31,625 --> 00:00:34,425 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Nothing to Wear, the podcast that 8 00:00:34,545 --> 00:00:37,945 Speaker 1: solves fashion problems and levels up your wardrobe. I'm Leigh 9 00:00:37,985 --> 00:00:40,545 Speaker 1: Campbell and every week I chat to an expert who 10 00:00:40,545 --> 00:00:42,585 Speaker 1: helps us work out how to get more out of 11 00:00:42,585 --> 00:00:45,545 Speaker 1: the clothes we already own and tells us exactly what 12 00:00:45,745 --> 00:00:48,745 Speaker 1: is and isn't worth adding to our wardrobe. Polly Layne 13 00:00:48,825 --> 00:00:51,625 Speaker 1: Right is a powerhouse for many reasons. She's a co 14 00:00:51,705 --> 00:00:55,625 Speaker 1: host on Mamma MIA's flagship podcast, Mama Me Are Out Loud. 15 00:00:55,865 --> 00:00:58,505 Speaker 1: She's the best selling author. She is the host of 16 00:00:58,585 --> 00:01:02,425 Speaker 1: one of Mama MIA's new podcasts, mid that has blown 17 00:01:02,465 --> 00:01:06,385 Speaker 1: the world away, and our woman who's been shaping the 18 00:01:06,425 --> 00:01:10,225 Speaker 1: way we talk about life, work and womanhood feed years. 19 00:01:10,905 --> 00:01:13,425 Speaker 1: So today I'm asking Holly on for a bit of 20 00:01:13,425 --> 00:01:16,705 Speaker 1: a chat, a bit of an in conversation. We're diving 21 00:01:16,745 --> 00:01:20,865 Speaker 1: into something a little more personal style, specifically, how to 22 00:01:20,985 --> 00:01:24,865 Speaker 1: find your style when you're mid and how your style evolves. 23 00:01:25,305 --> 00:01:27,345 Speaker 1: If you've ever stood in front of your wardrobe feeling 24 00:01:27,425 --> 00:01:31,665 Speaker 1: like nothing fits, literally or metaphorically, this conversation is for you. 25 00:01:32,465 --> 00:01:36,705 Speaker 1: Holly Waynwright, Hello, Lely, Welcome to Nothing to War. So 26 00:01:36,825 --> 00:01:40,185 Speaker 1: I asked, first time guests, can you describe your style 27 00:01:40,185 --> 00:01:40,865 Speaker 1: in three words? 28 00:01:41,185 --> 00:01:44,625 Speaker 3: This is embarrassing because we did this three words style 29 00:01:44,785 --> 00:01:48,585 Speaker 3: thing on out loud and I can't remember what mine were, 30 00:01:49,265 --> 00:01:53,985 Speaker 3: but I think they were something like relaxed something. And 31 00:01:54,025 --> 00:01:56,345 Speaker 3: then it was suggested to me that one of them 32 00:01:56,345 --> 00:01:58,305 Speaker 3: should be French, and I got really into that and 33 00:01:58,345 --> 00:02:00,545 Speaker 3: then you said to me, no, it shouldn't be French. 34 00:02:00,865 --> 00:02:02,345 Speaker 2: I think, like, if I have a picture of my 35 00:02:02,345 --> 00:02:02,865 Speaker 2: head of what I. 36 00:02:02,825 --> 00:02:06,825 Speaker 3: Want to look like, right, I want to look effortless 37 00:02:07,705 --> 00:02:08,785 Speaker 3: but put together. 38 00:02:09,105 --> 00:02:09,345 Speaker 1: Yes. 39 00:02:09,745 --> 00:02:13,465 Speaker 3: And I'm really attracted to a slightly boho vibe but 40 00:02:13,625 --> 00:02:19,865 Speaker 3: not like hippie buttray of life. No. And I love navy, 41 00:02:19,945 --> 00:02:23,345 Speaker 3: I love colorful shoes. I love a nice shirt like 42 00:02:23,425 --> 00:02:25,585 Speaker 3: I don't know what's the word for it, Lely. 43 00:02:25,625 --> 00:02:27,545 Speaker 1: I don't know, but I think we're working on your 44 00:02:27,585 --> 00:02:29,745 Speaker 1: three words. Obviously we haven't got them. I don't have mine. 45 00:02:29,785 --> 00:02:33,145 Speaker 1: What is French in terms of a word, because Brenton 46 00:02:33,225 --> 00:02:35,185 Speaker 1: t long Sley, Brenton Tina Beret. 47 00:02:34,985 --> 00:02:36,065 Speaker 2: No, no, no no. 48 00:02:36,225 --> 00:02:39,545 Speaker 3: If I was picking a style icon of the last 49 00:02:39,545 --> 00:02:43,425 Speaker 3: few years, it would be Sylvie from Emily in Paris. Okay, now, 50 00:02:43,465 --> 00:02:46,505 Speaker 3: not strictly speaking, because she flashes a lot of flesh 51 00:02:46,585 --> 00:02:49,825 Speaker 3: and I do not. But she is an older woman 52 00:02:49,905 --> 00:02:50,665 Speaker 3: as am I. 53 00:02:50,665 --> 00:02:51,545 Speaker 2: I am now. 54 00:02:51,425 --> 00:02:54,745 Speaker 3: Officially fifty three, which is officially quite grown up. But 55 00:02:54,825 --> 00:02:57,625 Speaker 3: she doesn't conform to lots of rules. But she always 56 00:02:57,665 --> 00:03:00,105 Speaker 3: looks great, like I love she wears these She's in Paris, 57 00:03:00,185 --> 00:03:02,705 Speaker 3: and she's in Paris, and she wears these gorgeous like 58 00:03:02,945 --> 00:03:05,505 Speaker 3: silk shirts. But you know that look the look I'm 59 00:03:05,545 --> 00:03:08,705 Speaker 3: a spying Flora's a grown up is she looks older. 60 00:03:08,865 --> 00:03:11,185 Speaker 3: She's not trying to look twenty and I Am not 61 00:03:11,345 --> 00:03:14,185 Speaker 3: trying to look twenty or dress twenty. And there's all 62 00:03:14,225 --> 00:03:15,905 Speaker 3: this thing about like, oh, we should all be wearing 63 00:03:15,905 --> 00:03:18,265 Speaker 3: what the gen zs are wearing, and I'm like, no, 64 00:03:18,505 --> 00:03:20,345 Speaker 3: I want to look like a grown up, but I 65 00:03:20,385 --> 00:03:22,825 Speaker 3: don't want to look like I've given up. 66 00:03:22,745 --> 00:03:25,025 Speaker 1: Too matronly, which is a silly word in itself. 67 00:03:25,185 --> 00:03:27,385 Speaker 2: I know, but it's kind of what everybody thinks. 68 00:03:27,465 --> 00:03:29,665 Speaker 1: It illustrates what we're trying to say before we get 69 00:03:29,665 --> 00:03:32,665 Speaker 1: into the topic, which is you and mid and your 70 00:03:32,705 --> 00:03:35,225 Speaker 1: amazing podcast meet and how you're a very stylish woman. 71 00:03:35,305 --> 00:03:37,625 Speaker 1: Oh gosh, thanks the ten percent of your wardrobe, you 72 00:03:37,665 --> 00:03:38,745 Speaker 1: were ninety percent of the time. 73 00:03:38,865 --> 00:03:41,345 Speaker 2: So what is on high rotation jeans? 74 00:03:41,665 --> 00:03:44,385 Speaker 3: So a few years ago and I wrote about this, 75 00:03:44,545 --> 00:03:47,105 Speaker 3: and I've remained very wedded to this. I think one 76 00:03:47,105 --> 00:03:49,505 Speaker 3: of my style flaws is that I hold onto things 77 00:03:49,545 --> 00:03:52,305 Speaker 3: for too like a look for too long. But I 78 00:03:52,905 --> 00:03:55,425 Speaker 3: found a gene that I love a few years ago 79 00:03:55,505 --> 00:03:59,065 Speaker 3: that are by Karina. They're an Australian denim brand and 80 00:03:59,065 --> 00:04:00,905 Speaker 3: they called the Freyer and they're kind of wide, like 81 00:04:00,985 --> 00:04:02,985 Speaker 3: high waisted but not too high waisted, wide leg but 82 00:04:03,025 --> 00:04:06,345 Speaker 3: not too white. And I just love them. And I 83 00:04:06,505 --> 00:04:07,905 Speaker 3: have a pair. I have a white pair, I have 84 00:04:07,945 --> 00:04:09,145 Speaker 3: a dark blue, I have a light blue, I. 85 00:04:09,145 --> 00:04:09,985 Speaker 2: Have a midwash like. 86 00:04:10,025 --> 00:04:12,745 Speaker 3: I have those jeans in almost every color And if 87 00:04:12,785 --> 00:04:15,465 Speaker 3: I don't know what to wear, my go to uniform 88 00:04:15,545 --> 00:04:18,745 Speaker 3: is those jeans with a shirt. I really like shirts 89 00:04:18,825 --> 00:04:20,985 Speaker 3: as I've gotten older away from T shirts that kind 90 00:04:20,985 --> 00:04:25,025 Speaker 3: of thing shirt and an interesting pair of shoes that 91 00:04:25,185 --> 00:04:26,625 Speaker 3: is like, I. 92 00:04:26,585 --> 00:04:28,025 Speaker 2: Don't know what I'm wearing. I'm wearing that. 93 00:04:28,185 --> 00:04:29,785 Speaker 1: Because I don't really have to think about it, you 94 00:04:29,865 --> 00:04:30,345 Speaker 1: know what works? 95 00:04:30,625 --> 00:04:34,265 Speaker 3: And I really like that kind of it's a bit seventy. 96 00:04:34,465 --> 00:04:35,785 Speaker 1: I was going to say, you give off a bit 97 00:04:35,865 --> 00:04:39,025 Speaker 1: seven like retro. I like that, not roller skating retro. 98 00:04:39,145 --> 00:04:39,385 Speaker 1: I know. 99 00:04:39,865 --> 00:04:41,865 Speaker 3: Also, you would be so mortified if you came to 100 00:04:41,905 --> 00:04:44,105 Speaker 3: my house, Lee, because I don't really have a proper 101 00:04:44,145 --> 00:04:47,625 Speaker 3: closet because the bedroom that anyway, long story, but my 102 00:04:47,705 --> 00:04:50,385 Speaker 3: clothes are all over the house. Some are in Matilda's room, 103 00:04:50,425 --> 00:04:51,305 Speaker 3: some are in Billy's room. 104 00:04:51,345 --> 00:04:52,505 Speaker 1: Oh that's hard to get ready. 105 00:04:52,705 --> 00:04:54,745 Speaker 3: And so my ten percent that I wear all the 106 00:04:54,785 --> 00:04:57,185 Speaker 3: time is literally the one that's in my room. And 107 00:04:57,225 --> 00:04:58,665 Speaker 3: I just wear those clothes all the time. And then 108 00:04:58,705 --> 00:04:59,705 Speaker 3: I'll go into matilda room and. 109 00:04:59,665 --> 00:05:01,385 Speaker 2: I'll be like, oh, I remember I've got that dress. 110 00:05:01,465 --> 00:05:04,185 Speaker 1: Yes, so you've physically done an edit by way of storage. 111 00:05:04,185 --> 00:05:06,145 Speaker 3: So a lot of jeans, a lot of shirts, and 112 00:05:06,225 --> 00:05:07,505 Speaker 3: a lot of colorful shoes. 113 00:05:07,625 --> 00:05:09,705 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, that's you. And you know what, the we 114 00:05:09,745 --> 00:05:11,265 Speaker 1: haven't held onto those jeans for too long. They work 115 00:05:11,305 --> 00:05:12,625 Speaker 1: for you. Why start a whole new mission. 116 00:05:12,665 --> 00:05:14,385 Speaker 3: I know, I do really like I love them. I'm 117 00:05:14,385 --> 00:05:17,745 Speaker 3: wearing a pair today, dark blue. That my darkest wash. 118 00:05:17,825 --> 00:05:21,785 Speaker 1: I'm into those now. How has your style changed over 119 00:05:21,825 --> 00:05:24,145 Speaker 1: the years. Do you think you used to be in magazines? 120 00:05:24,145 --> 00:05:25,625 Speaker 1: We were both at the same company that we didn't 121 00:05:25,665 --> 00:05:28,985 Speaker 1: know each other until now. Has your style changed much 122 00:05:29,105 --> 00:05:31,985 Speaker 1: or have you always kind of been sure of your paramo? 123 00:05:32,385 --> 00:05:34,465 Speaker 3: I see, I don't think I'm sure of my preme is. 124 00:05:34,545 --> 00:05:37,425 Speaker 3: Like a lot of women, I'm quite insecure about my 125 00:05:37,545 --> 00:05:39,865 Speaker 3: body and my shape and all those things. And I 126 00:05:39,945 --> 00:05:41,545 Speaker 3: know we don't have to say you don't have to 127 00:05:41,585 --> 00:05:45,465 Speaker 3: be like women are really so often I've been very 128 00:05:45,465 --> 00:05:47,665 Speaker 3: insecure about what I look like. It's funny that now 129 00:05:47,705 --> 00:05:49,505 Speaker 3: my go to as jeans, because for a very long 130 00:05:49,545 --> 00:05:51,745 Speaker 3: time I never wore jeans. I only wore skirts. 131 00:05:51,785 --> 00:05:52,545 Speaker 1: Were scared of them. 132 00:05:52,625 --> 00:05:54,905 Speaker 3: Dresses, Yes, I was definitely scared of them. I thought 133 00:05:54,945 --> 00:05:57,865 Speaker 3: they didn't flatter me. I thought because I'm short as well, 134 00:05:57,945 --> 00:05:59,945 Speaker 3: Like I'm really quite short and five foot three. Often 135 00:05:59,945 --> 00:06:01,585 Speaker 3: when I meet people, they're like, oh, I didn't know 136 00:06:01,625 --> 00:06:05,185 Speaker 3: you were so sure. And I used to only really 137 00:06:05,225 --> 00:06:08,825 Speaker 3: wear skirts, and now I rarely wear skirts. I definitely 138 00:06:08,905 --> 00:06:13,265 Speaker 3: decided round fifty that I was going to make more 139 00:06:13,265 --> 00:06:13,785 Speaker 3: of an effort. 140 00:06:13,945 --> 00:06:15,665 Speaker 2: Fuck it fifty, Yeah, fuck it fifty. 141 00:06:15,705 --> 00:06:18,545 Speaker 3: And also I moved to the country, and I spend 142 00:06:18,585 --> 00:06:21,545 Speaker 3: a lot of my time when I'm there in very comfy, 143 00:06:21,625 --> 00:06:24,625 Speaker 3: like knock around clothes. So when I come to the office, 144 00:06:24,985 --> 00:06:26,825 Speaker 3: like you'd be the same, because I, I mean, I 145 00:06:26,865 --> 00:06:28,985 Speaker 3: wasn't in fashion mags the way that you were, or monthly. 146 00:06:29,105 --> 00:06:31,385 Speaker 3: I was in weeklies. But still clothes are a thing, 147 00:06:31,465 --> 00:06:33,385 Speaker 3: makeups of things and cause of thing, and it's fun 148 00:06:33,425 --> 00:06:34,945 Speaker 3: to dress up and come to. 149 00:06:34,945 --> 00:06:37,185 Speaker 1: Work, but every day gets a bit monotonous, whereas now 150 00:06:37,225 --> 00:06:38,705 Speaker 1: you and I are sort of part time here, it's 151 00:06:38,705 --> 00:06:41,145 Speaker 1: fun to do the fancy and then the next day 152 00:06:41,185 --> 00:06:42,025 Speaker 1: you're in your leggings. 153 00:06:42,105 --> 00:06:44,905 Speaker 3: And generationally, it's interesting to me that all the young 154 00:06:44,945 --> 00:06:46,905 Speaker 3: women we work with, who are all very gorgeous and 155 00:06:46,905 --> 00:06:48,745 Speaker 3: cool in all the different ways, but they will come 156 00:06:48,785 --> 00:06:51,305 Speaker 3: to the office in leggings. Like it's not all of them, 157 00:06:51,345 --> 00:06:53,945 Speaker 3: but some of them definitely will, and I would never 158 00:06:54,145 --> 00:06:55,625 Speaker 3: I think that must be a bit of a gen 159 00:06:55,785 --> 00:06:57,665 Speaker 3: X thing. Like I am not an active wear out 160 00:06:57,705 --> 00:07:00,585 Speaker 3: of the house unless I am literally just walking the dog, 161 00:07:00,945 --> 00:07:01,665 Speaker 3: doing the errands. 162 00:07:01,665 --> 00:07:02,225 Speaker 2: You know what I mean. 163 00:07:02,385 --> 00:07:04,985 Speaker 3: If I'm going anywhere where I might see people, I 164 00:07:05,105 --> 00:07:06,505 Speaker 3: have to get out of my leggings. 165 00:07:06,505 --> 00:07:09,025 Speaker 1: See, I'm an elder millennial and I am active where 166 00:07:09,265 --> 00:07:11,465 Speaker 1: outside of active, but not to the office. And I 167 00:07:11,585 --> 00:07:13,385 Speaker 1: sometimes think that maybe there needs to be a bit 168 00:07:13,425 --> 00:07:15,665 Speaker 1: of decorum, But I actually think that's because I'm old 169 00:07:15,905 --> 00:07:16,985 Speaker 1: and things are changing. 170 00:07:17,225 --> 00:07:18,905 Speaker 3: I don't judge it, I just really know, I just 171 00:07:19,025 --> 00:07:21,185 Speaker 3: judge it. I remember saying to one of my young 172 00:07:21,265 --> 00:07:23,905 Speaker 3: colleagues recently, Oh, but these aren't work clothes in whatever 173 00:07:23,945 --> 00:07:24,305 Speaker 3: I was wearing. 174 00:07:24,305 --> 00:07:26,305 Speaker 2: Oh no, And she was like, what a work. 175 00:07:26,025 --> 00:07:29,385 Speaker 1: Clothes, particularly in such a casual office. You know, well, 176 00:07:29,425 --> 00:07:31,625 Speaker 1: speaking of this office, you work so closely with me. 177 00:07:32,105 --> 00:07:33,905 Speaker 1: She's a bower bird when it comes to trends. She 178 00:07:34,025 --> 00:07:37,065 Speaker 1: will try anything and maybe everything, all at once. How 179 00:07:37,065 --> 00:07:39,385 Speaker 1: do you personally feel about trends? Do you think they're 180 00:07:39,385 --> 00:07:40,985 Speaker 1: too fast, too intimidating. 181 00:07:41,105 --> 00:07:44,025 Speaker 3: I think they're too fast and to intimidating. And I 182 00:07:44,065 --> 00:07:46,425 Speaker 3: am a late adopter. So Mia will be wearing this 183 00:07:46,505 --> 00:07:48,505 Speaker 3: pair of trainers or whatever, and I'll be like, Oh, 184 00:07:48,545 --> 00:07:49,545 Speaker 3: I like those, but. 185 00:07:49,505 --> 00:07:50,465 Speaker 2: They're too much for me. 186 00:07:50,745 --> 00:07:53,065 Speaker 3: Suddenly everyone in the office is wearing them, and I'm like, oh, no, 187 00:07:53,145 --> 00:07:56,345 Speaker 3: I don't want to be that, But then six months 188 00:07:56,425 --> 00:07:57,665 Speaker 3: later I'll totally be wearing them. 189 00:07:57,705 --> 00:08:00,265 Speaker 1: Do you feel any pressure to be trend driven or 190 00:08:00,305 --> 00:08:01,265 Speaker 1: to wear trends? Though? 191 00:08:01,385 --> 00:08:02,065 Speaker 2: No, not really. 192 00:08:02,145 --> 00:08:04,785 Speaker 3: Every now and again, I'll get a comment from my 193 00:08:04,825 --> 00:08:07,145 Speaker 3: beloved friend that makes me go all like, you know 194 00:08:07,225 --> 00:08:08,985 Speaker 3: how I was wedded and I still am in a 195 00:08:09,025 --> 00:08:11,905 Speaker 3: way to my Wooden sold seventies clogs. 196 00:08:11,985 --> 00:08:12,785 Speaker 1: Yes, they're great. 197 00:08:12,945 --> 00:08:14,345 Speaker 3: I have so many pairs of those. 198 00:08:16,385 --> 00:08:18,625 Speaker 1: So when you find something you really commit, Yeah, I do. 199 00:08:19,105 --> 00:08:21,265 Speaker 3: When I find something that I love, I love and 200 00:08:21,305 --> 00:08:23,425 Speaker 3: I'll wear for ages. And I remember mea saying to 201 00:08:23,465 --> 00:08:25,945 Speaker 3: me once like, you just got to stop wearing those, 202 00:08:26,025 --> 00:08:26,665 Speaker 3: they're not cool. 203 00:08:26,865 --> 00:08:28,665 Speaker 2: I was like, I don't care that they're not cool. 204 00:08:28,785 --> 00:08:31,745 Speaker 1: They're kind of are very cool right now. Yeah, it's noisy. 205 00:08:31,865 --> 00:08:34,145 Speaker 3: They were noisy, And what amazes me about me and 206 00:08:34,185 --> 00:08:36,945 Speaker 3: I love love Seeing what she's wearing every day brings 207 00:08:36,985 --> 00:08:38,905 Speaker 3: me a lot of joy. She walks into the meeting 208 00:08:38,945 --> 00:08:41,345 Speaker 3: eight thirty in the morning, and I'm always delighted to 209 00:08:41,385 --> 00:08:44,305 Speaker 3: see what's going on. But I just can't give it 210 00:08:44,345 --> 00:08:45,745 Speaker 3: that much time and energy, and I just. 211 00:08:45,785 --> 00:08:47,585 Speaker 1: Don't Yeah, and the variety. 212 00:08:47,665 --> 00:08:49,625 Speaker 3: You know, I think it's I can't imagine how many 213 00:08:49,625 --> 00:08:52,665 Speaker 3: clothes she has, or you, my friend, you wear amazing 214 00:08:52,705 --> 00:08:53,425 Speaker 3: clothes all the time. 215 00:08:53,505 --> 00:08:55,385 Speaker 2: They're very different, vibe. 216 00:08:55,265 --> 00:08:57,745 Speaker 1: Yeah, different to me, But I then have the all 217 00:08:57,745 --> 00:09:00,865 Speaker 1: my personalities in my wardrobe and sometimes she can't decide. 218 00:09:01,105 --> 00:09:01,465 Speaker 2: Yes. 219 00:09:01,905 --> 00:09:04,385 Speaker 1: I'm so excited and interested, And I've always wanted to 220 00:09:04,385 --> 00:09:06,785 Speaker 1: ask you this in a public arena, to get your 221 00:09:06,865 --> 00:09:11,545 Speaker 1: thoughts on fashion and feminism or fashion versus feminism, because 222 00:09:11,625 --> 00:09:15,145 Speaker 1: I've been a lifestyle journalist for twenty something years, mostly 223 00:09:15,145 --> 00:09:18,385 Speaker 1: writing about talking about lipstick and makeup, and I've always 224 00:09:18,425 --> 00:09:20,785 Speaker 1: had to defend the fact that I believe women can 225 00:09:20,825 --> 00:09:25,265 Speaker 1: be smart and care about current affairs and love eyeshadow. 226 00:09:26,265 --> 00:09:29,385 Speaker 1: So what are your thoughts Can a woman really care 227 00:09:29,465 --> 00:09:33,105 Speaker 1: about both? And is there a line between self expression 228 00:09:33,305 --> 00:09:36,145 Speaker 1: and vanity? Or if we're really feminist, shall we be 229 00:09:36,545 --> 00:09:38,705 Speaker 1: fighting the patriarchy and wearing a plastic bag. 230 00:09:39,305 --> 00:09:42,185 Speaker 3: Of course, I think that absolutely women can care about 231 00:09:42,545 --> 00:09:46,025 Speaker 3: fashion and feminism, of course, and politics and makeup and 232 00:09:46,065 --> 00:09:49,625 Speaker 3: all those things. But it's interesting in that we still 233 00:09:50,145 --> 00:09:54,625 Speaker 3: have this embedded view in our heads that because the 234 00:09:54,705 --> 00:09:57,185 Speaker 3: idea of being a real feminist is that you're not 235 00:09:57,825 --> 00:10:00,665 Speaker 3: kowtowing to the male gaze, right, that's the idea. And 236 00:10:01,105 --> 00:10:03,505 Speaker 3: I know this wouldn't be shocking to you, but I 237 00:10:03,545 --> 00:10:06,345 Speaker 3: know very few women who actually address for the male gaze. 238 00:10:06,385 --> 00:10:08,345 Speaker 2: I agree, including when I was younger. 239 00:10:08,985 --> 00:10:11,265 Speaker 3: Meuse, I definitely think as you get older, you give 240 00:10:11,305 --> 00:10:14,265 Speaker 3: fewer fucks about dressing for the male cays of course, so. 241 00:10:14,225 --> 00:10:16,585 Speaker 1: When you were younger, do you think you dressed still 242 00:10:16,625 --> 00:10:18,105 Speaker 1: for yourself or for other women? 243 00:10:18,465 --> 00:10:21,265 Speaker 3: Or I have some outfits from different eras that were 244 00:10:21,385 --> 00:10:24,345 Speaker 3: very defining of what I was wearing at that moment. 245 00:10:24,545 --> 00:10:26,985 Speaker 3: I've always worn whatever I want or whatever I felt comfortable, 246 00:10:26,985 --> 00:10:29,345 Speaker 3: and as I say, with all the usual insecurities, you know, 247 00:10:29,425 --> 00:10:31,985 Speaker 3: I remember there were phases when I would be in 248 00:10:32,025 --> 00:10:35,065 Speaker 3: relationships and the guy would be like, I like short skirts, 249 00:10:35,145 --> 00:10:37,865 Speaker 3: and you'd be like, oh, you know that. 250 00:10:37,985 --> 00:10:40,225 Speaker 1: And then part of you goes okay, and you go. 251 00:10:40,225 --> 00:10:43,385 Speaker 3: And try and you think, yeah, but I have never 252 00:10:43,465 --> 00:10:47,625 Speaker 3: really dressed for men. And I think that it's true 253 00:10:47,665 --> 00:10:51,185 Speaker 3: that for some people clothes and more self expression than others. 254 00:10:51,865 --> 00:10:55,545 Speaker 3: But I think that for all of us, feeling confident, 255 00:10:55,705 --> 00:10:59,425 Speaker 3: feeling positive, feeling powerful is a good thing, right, And 256 00:11:00,185 --> 00:11:02,945 Speaker 3: if that is tied to the way you look. That 257 00:11:03,025 --> 00:11:05,785 Speaker 3: might be patriarchy who put that idea there somewhere with 258 00:11:05,865 --> 00:11:07,825 Speaker 3: a big side of capitalism, who want you to buy 259 00:11:07,905 --> 00:11:10,545 Speaker 3: more things, more things, more things. But also if it 260 00:11:10,665 --> 00:11:13,585 Speaker 3: works for you, I think one hundred percent yes. 261 00:11:13,305 --> 00:11:15,905 Speaker 1: Because how do you feel when you've put together a 262 00:11:15,945 --> 00:11:18,425 Speaker 1: good outfit or throw it together and you've come to 263 00:11:18,425 --> 00:11:21,385 Speaker 1: the city. Does it make a difference if you like 264 00:11:21,465 --> 00:11:22,865 Speaker 1: the way you feel in your clothes that day? 265 00:11:22,985 --> 00:11:26,505 Speaker 3: Definitely, one hundred percent it does. And equally, and this 266 00:11:26,545 --> 00:11:28,185 Speaker 3: is one of the things that can be quite confronting 267 00:11:28,225 --> 00:11:31,785 Speaker 3: as you age, right, is that sometimes making and I 268 00:11:31,825 --> 00:11:33,385 Speaker 3: hate to use the words, but making a bit of 269 00:11:33,385 --> 00:11:36,625 Speaker 3: an effort, like you know, putting on the lipstick or 270 00:11:36,745 --> 00:11:40,905 Speaker 3: wearing that outfit, you can become invisible very quickly when 271 00:11:40,945 --> 00:11:42,545 Speaker 3: you don't as you get older. 272 00:11:42,745 --> 00:11:45,185 Speaker 1: Because I think there's a difference between giving no fucks 273 00:11:45,225 --> 00:11:48,505 Speaker 1: and stop trying. Because as long as you're trying for yourself. 274 00:11:48,105 --> 00:11:50,145 Speaker 3: I think, but that's the key, trying for yourself because 275 00:11:50,145 --> 00:11:53,025 Speaker 3: often when people say, oh, she's given up, that statement 276 00:11:53,105 --> 00:11:56,025 Speaker 3: is so loaded, right, It's often about bodies, and it's 277 00:11:56,065 --> 00:11:58,825 Speaker 3: about gray hair, and it's about a lot of things 278 00:11:58,825 --> 00:12:01,745 Speaker 3: that don't necessarily mean anyone's given up anything, but what 279 00:12:01,825 --> 00:12:04,425 Speaker 3: I do think, and I've certainly been through periods of 280 00:12:04,425 --> 00:12:06,545 Speaker 3: my life like this. When I don't like the way 281 00:12:06,585 --> 00:12:08,345 Speaker 3: I look at all, I do. 282 00:12:08,225 --> 00:12:10,665 Speaker 2: Try and disappear. Shrink you shrink. 283 00:12:11,425 --> 00:12:14,105 Speaker 3: And I often say that I can be invisible if 284 00:12:14,145 --> 00:12:15,945 Speaker 3: I want to be, because there's a middle I hate 285 00:12:15,945 --> 00:12:18,625 Speaker 3: the term middle aged, but that's how the external world 286 00:12:18,665 --> 00:12:21,945 Speaker 3: would look at me. If I'm wearing my daggy leggings 287 00:12:21,985 --> 00:12:23,665 Speaker 3: and a big old T shirt and I've got my 288 00:12:23,665 --> 00:12:25,545 Speaker 3: hair scraped back and I'm not wearing makeup, you know, 289 00:12:25,585 --> 00:12:28,025 Speaker 3: then of course I just look like a middle aged lady. 290 00:12:28,025 --> 00:12:30,745 Speaker 1: And do you like that? I do? I like the ability. 291 00:12:30,745 --> 00:12:32,745 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm forty three next month, and I think 292 00:12:32,985 --> 00:12:35,585 Speaker 1: I've got to the point where I dress fully for myself, 293 00:12:35,745 --> 00:12:38,185 Speaker 1: not for my girlfriends anymore, definitely not for my husband, 294 00:12:38,185 --> 00:12:39,705 Speaker 1: because i'd be wearing red late eggs. 295 00:12:40,505 --> 00:12:43,185 Speaker 2: But I also like, I care what. 296 00:12:43,185 --> 00:12:44,905 Speaker 1: I want to care, but I don't feel pressure to 297 00:12:44,945 --> 00:12:46,785 Speaker 1: care if I don't have it in me that day. 298 00:12:46,945 --> 00:12:48,425 Speaker 3: If I don't have it in me, I don't have 299 00:12:48,425 --> 00:12:50,985 Speaker 3: it in me. But I think what's interesting is that 300 00:12:51,105 --> 00:12:54,625 Speaker 3: if the story you start telling yourself is that I'm invisible, 301 00:12:55,425 --> 00:12:58,425 Speaker 3: I'm no longer interesting to look at, I'm no longer 302 00:12:58,865 --> 00:13:02,905 Speaker 3: valuable and to be seen in this world. Because it's 303 00:13:02,905 --> 00:13:07,465 Speaker 3: a really really pervasive idea that only young women are 304 00:13:07,505 --> 00:13:11,065 Speaker 3: interesting in sexy, right, And so we've all digested that. 305 00:13:11,265 --> 00:13:12,945 Speaker 2: It's fine if that's fine for you. 306 00:13:13,065 --> 00:13:15,345 Speaker 3: But if I have a theory that the reason that 307 00:13:15,425 --> 00:13:17,745 Speaker 3: women at a certain age suddenly start wearing red lipstick, 308 00:13:17,785 --> 00:13:21,345 Speaker 3: which I certainly did, I'm weaning myself off the red lipsick, 309 00:13:21,425 --> 00:13:23,825 Speaker 3: all the big earrings, all. 310 00:13:23,665 --> 00:13:25,065 Speaker 2: Those stereotypes we have. 311 00:13:25,865 --> 00:13:28,425 Speaker 3: It's just a way of saying, hey, I'm here, right, 312 00:13:28,585 --> 00:13:31,465 Speaker 3: and whatever makes you happy, you should do. And I 313 00:13:31,585 --> 00:13:35,105 Speaker 3: don't think that caring about clothes, caring about fashion, caring 314 00:13:35,105 --> 00:13:37,385 Speaker 3: about lipstick is in any way anti feminist. 315 00:13:37,385 --> 00:13:37,785 Speaker 2: I think that. 316 00:13:37,785 --> 00:13:41,545 Speaker 1: Idea is dead, Thank goodness, because I felt that too. 317 00:13:41,665 --> 00:13:44,825 Speaker 1: But you are my moral compass. Now. Last year you 318 00:13:44,905 --> 00:13:48,105 Speaker 1: launched mid, which is a podcast that has changed my life. 319 00:13:48,145 --> 00:13:50,065 Speaker 1: I am forty three next month, as I mentioned, and 320 00:13:50,065 --> 00:13:50,905 Speaker 1: I'm definitely mid. 321 00:13:51,105 --> 00:13:53,665 Speaker 2: I am on you're only just mid, but welcome. 322 00:13:53,745 --> 00:13:57,065 Speaker 1: I'm middle. Well if I live to eighty something, but 323 00:13:57,105 --> 00:13:59,425 Speaker 1: I'm on your own replacement. And I love that the 324 00:13:59,465 --> 00:14:02,865 Speaker 1: show really does cater for you know, anywhere, for everybody. 325 00:14:02,865 --> 00:14:06,945 Speaker 1: It's for everybody. How has mid changed how you feel 326 00:14:06,985 --> 00:14:10,465 Speaker 1: about all of this stuff in terms of getting dressed, 327 00:14:10,625 --> 00:14:13,705 Speaker 1: putting in an effort. Also, our podcasts have recently gone video. 328 00:14:13,905 --> 00:14:16,145 Speaker 3: I don't know that many women who love looking at 329 00:14:16,145 --> 00:14:18,745 Speaker 3: themselves endlessly close up talk. 330 00:14:18,705 --> 00:14:21,105 Speaker 1: Yes over the internet, and you have to be on 331 00:14:21,145 --> 00:14:21,545 Speaker 1: every day. 332 00:14:21,705 --> 00:14:22,145 Speaker 2: I had to. 333 00:14:22,305 --> 00:14:24,265 Speaker 3: It's interesting because we were just talking about, you know, 334 00:14:24,425 --> 00:14:26,905 Speaker 3: I am here, I'm still here, I'm not invisible. But 335 00:14:26,945 --> 00:14:30,145 Speaker 3: I've also had to decouple myself a bit from just 336 00:14:30,185 --> 00:14:32,945 Speaker 3: that constant self critique that's like, you look. 337 00:14:32,785 --> 00:14:36,665 Speaker 2: Old, you're jowled, you're this, you're that. Yeah very much, 338 00:14:36,945 --> 00:14:39,185 Speaker 2: tell that voice to take a shushy yes. 339 00:14:39,505 --> 00:14:44,545 Speaker 3: But I've found making mid so oh goodness, really cheesy word, 340 00:14:44,545 --> 00:14:48,505 Speaker 3: but empowering because the thing that I'm really passionate about 341 00:14:48,585 --> 00:14:50,585 Speaker 3: is whatever you want to look like, whatever you want 342 00:14:50,625 --> 00:14:51,745 Speaker 3: to wear, whatever that's. 343 00:14:51,665 --> 00:14:53,505 Speaker 2: Up to you as you get older. But just don't 344 00:14:53,505 --> 00:14:54,145 Speaker 2: stop being you. 345 00:14:54,385 --> 00:14:56,945 Speaker 3: Right, Because as I was just saying about this script, 346 00:14:56,985 --> 00:15:00,065 Speaker 3: we've all internalized, is my time's over. I've got to 347 00:15:00,105 --> 00:15:02,785 Speaker 3: sit down, let the young'uns take over. Yes, the young 348 00:15:02,785 --> 00:15:04,465 Speaker 3: and should be taking. Like I've got a fifteen year 349 00:15:04,505 --> 00:15:08,225 Speaker 3: old daughter, and I get so much joy from watching 350 00:15:08,385 --> 00:15:12,145 Speaker 3: her beauty and her you know, when I feel beauty, 351 00:15:12,185 --> 00:15:14,345 Speaker 3: I just mean like, to me, she's beautiful, I don't 352 00:15:14,345 --> 00:15:17,705 Speaker 3: necessarily mean she's a beauty and watching her play with 353 00:15:17,745 --> 00:15:20,545 Speaker 3: all that stuff. And it's funny because as a feminist mother, though, 354 00:15:20,585 --> 00:15:22,305 Speaker 3: I do often find myself saying, stop. 355 00:15:22,105 --> 00:15:23,465 Speaker 2: Staring at yourself so much. 356 00:15:24,425 --> 00:15:26,145 Speaker 3: I'm not in any way. You know, you hear those 357 00:15:26,185 --> 00:15:28,545 Speaker 3: tropes about like then the middle aged ones get jealousy. 358 00:15:29,225 --> 00:15:31,385 Speaker 3: I don't feel that even a tiny bit. I'm like, 359 00:15:31,545 --> 00:15:34,545 Speaker 3: you go, girl, I can't wait to see you really 360 00:15:34,625 --> 00:15:37,865 Speaker 3: rocking these years and finding yourself and get more comfortable, 361 00:15:37,865 --> 00:15:40,905 Speaker 3: hopefully all the time. But I also think that there's 362 00:15:40,985 --> 00:15:42,865 Speaker 3: room for all of us to still be seen and 363 00:15:42,945 --> 00:15:45,825 Speaker 3: visible and still be pushing things and taking risks and 364 00:15:45,865 --> 00:15:47,825 Speaker 3: making new stuff. And one of the things that's been 365 00:15:48,025 --> 00:15:50,865 Speaker 3: great about mid is when I ask the audience, like, 366 00:15:51,065 --> 00:15:52,705 Speaker 3: send me your pictures and tell me what you're doing, 367 00:15:52,785 --> 00:15:55,425 Speaker 3: and tell me what you're exciting about. These women are 368 00:15:55,465 --> 00:15:59,105 Speaker 3: doing amazing shit, and many of them look great doing it. 369 00:15:59,105 --> 00:16:00,705 Speaker 3: In fact, of course they all look great doing it, 370 00:16:00,745 --> 00:16:03,865 Speaker 3: but it's that thing of like, I'm still here, you 371 00:16:03,905 --> 00:16:05,905 Speaker 3: can still see me, the world can still see me. 372 00:16:06,065 --> 00:16:09,905 Speaker 3: I'm not stopping. I'm not suddenly fading into the background. 373 00:16:09,985 --> 00:16:12,025 Speaker 3: Things I want to do, places I want to go, adventures, 374 00:16:12,025 --> 00:16:13,385 Speaker 3: I want to have dresses I want to wear. 375 00:16:13,625 --> 00:16:14,905 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I love about. 376 00:16:14,985 --> 00:16:16,945 Speaker 1: And I feel like from that I've taken mid It 377 00:16:17,065 --> 00:16:18,865 Speaker 1: might be a life stage in terms of age, but 378 00:16:18,865 --> 00:16:21,705 Speaker 1: it's not a label. You don't have to be that's 379 00:16:21,745 --> 00:16:24,865 Speaker 1: all you are. No, it's nothing about that, not at all. 380 00:16:24,985 --> 00:16:28,185 Speaker 3: And also the other thing is we've again with this 381 00:16:28,265 --> 00:16:31,505 Speaker 3: agism that we've all internalized we're why. Like when I 382 00:16:31,545 --> 00:16:33,905 Speaker 3: think about you, LEI like nearly all the amazing women 383 00:16:33,945 --> 00:16:36,465 Speaker 3: I know, think of all the shit you've lived through, Like, 384 00:16:36,625 --> 00:16:38,345 Speaker 3: think of all the things you've been through, all the 385 00:16:38,345 --> 00:16:43,545 Speaker 3: different versions of yourself. You've been trials, you've survived, the disappointments, 386 00:16:43,585 --> 00:16:47,425 Speaker 3: the griefs, the triumphs. We're amazing, and yet somehow we've 387 00:16:47,465 --> 00:16:50,705 Speaker 3: all been convinced that we're really sad. And it's like 388 00:16:50,785 --> 00:16:53,025 Speaker 3: we need to take that lie back, whizz it up 389 00:16:53,025 --> 00:16:55,585 Speaker 3: and throw it back in people's face because how wise 390 00:16:55,625 --> 00:16:56,585 Speaker 3: and powerful you are today. 391 00:16:56,625 --> 00:16:58,225 Speaker 2: You've never been as wise and powerful as. 392 00:16:58,145 --> 00:16:59,305 Speaker 1: And it's just going to get better. 393 00:17:08,545 --> 00:17:08,745 Speaker 2: Now. 394 00:17:08,785 --> 00:17:11,945 Speaker 1: You touched on around turning fifty, you kind of had 395 00:17:12,625 --> 00:17:13,985 Speaker 1: I won't put words in your mouth at a light 396 00:17:13,985 --> 00:17:18,545 Speaker 1: bob moment. You wanted to really feel good. So how 397 00:17:18,545 --> 00:17:19,945 Speaker 1: did you approach that with fashion? 398 00:17:20,145 --> 00:17:22,585 Speaker 3: You know how we always when we used to consume 399 00:17:22,585 --> 00:17:25,345 Speaker 3: fashion magazines all the time, dressing is always like, wottle 400 00:17:25,385 --> 00:17:27,585 Speaker 3: make you look taller, wattle make you look slimmer, mottle 401 00:17:27,625 --> 00:17:29,305 Speaker 3: make you look younger, what's flatwering, what's this? 402 00:17:29,705 --> 00:17:31,465 Speaker 1: And when out your body shape? You're a pair he 403 00:17:31,825 --> 00:17:32,545 Speaker 1: this way exactly. 404 00:17:32,585 --> 00:17:34,025 Speaker 3: And you have all these scripts in your head about 405 00:17:34,025 --> 00:17:35,545 Speaker 3: I can't wear this, and I can't wear that, and 406 00:17:35,545 --> 00:17:38,505 Speaker 3: I can't wear that, and I think that part of 407 00:17:38,545 --> 00:17:41,665 Speaker 3: this whole reclaiming of things. I was like, I can 408 00:17:41,705 --> 00:17:45,905 Speaker 3: wear what I want, you know, and I will die 409 00:17:45,945 --> 00:17:47,825 Speaker 3: on the hill that any woman can wear what they want, 410 00:17:47,945 --> 00:17:50,185 Speaker 3: what she wants in terms of how much flesh she 411 00:17:50,225 --> 00:17:51,905 Speaker 3: wants to flash and all that, that's not my thing, 412 00:17:52,465 --> 00:17:55,345 Speaker 3: but like, go hard if it's your thing. But I 413 00:17:55,505 --> 00:17:57,545 Speaker 3: was like, I don't want to stop feeling like me. 414 00:17:57,625 --> 00:18:02,065 Speaker 3: And also because I'm not hugely confident in fashion finding 415 00:18:02,225 --> 00:18:03,905 Speaker 3: a kind of a bit of a uniform for that 416 00:18:03,945 --> 00:18:06,225 Speaker 3: period that was my shirts and jeans, which I'm kind 417 00:18:06,225 --> 00:18:07,065 Speaker 3: of trying to break. 418 00:18:06,825 --> 00:18:07,185 Speaker 2: Out of them. 419 00:18:07,265 --> 00:18:11,385 Speaker 3: So was really useful because it means now that when 420 00:18:11,425 --> 00:18:13,785 Speaker 3: I go shopping and I get a bit overwhelmed, or 421 00:18:13,785 --> 00:18:15,425 Speaker 3: at least in that period, I'd be like, well, what 422 00:18:15,465 --> 00:18:17,505 Speaker 3: I'm looking for is interesting shit, A. 423 00:18:17,505 --> 00:18:18,345 Speaker 1: Bit of a safety net. 424 00:18:18,425 --> 00:18:21,105 Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I've got all these great pairs of jeans 425 00:18:21,145 --> 00:18:22,785 Speaker 3: whatever that I know look good with a shirt and 426 00:18:22,785 --> 00:18:26,185 Speaker 3: a shoe. So where can I find interesting shirts? 427 00:18:26,265 --> 00:18:26,465 Speaker 1: You know? 428 00:18:26,785 --> 00:18:29,145 Speaker 2: And then colors, Oh, godly don't know. 429 00:18:29,505 --> 00:18:31,585 Speaker 1: We're not going into colors. Wear whatever color. 430 00:18:31,745 --> 00:18:33,705 Speaker 3: I know, but I for a long time would only 431 00:18:33,745 --> 00:18:36,585 Speaker 3: wear blue because I love blue. And I walk into 432 00:18:36,585 --> 00:18:38,065 Speaker 3: a shop and I'm nearly always. 433 00:18:37,745 --> 00:18:39,425 Speaker 1: I think we were in Maya once and you bought 434 00:18:39,425 --> 00:18:40,905 Speaker 1: a cornflower blues something I. 435 00:18:42,785 --> 00:18:45,105 Speaker 2: Did, and I bought a white Greek shirt with like 436 00:18:45,145 --> 00:18:48,185 Speaker 2: this blue. Yes, I love that shit, I still wear it. 437 00:18:48,265 --> 00:18:50,225 Speaker 3: You can get a bit stuck in those roots, and 438 00:18:50,305 --> 00:18:52,105 Speaker 3: I was definitely stuck in a blue rot. Still I'm 439 00:18:52,145 --> 00:18:54,145 Speaker 3: wearing navy today, so I kind of try and push 440 00:18:54,185 --> 00:18:55,225 Speaker 3: myself out of those things. 441 00:18:55,225 --> 00:18:58,025 Speaker 2: But it's also okay have you come from Oh my gosh. 442 00:18:57,745 --> 00:19:00,705 Speaker 1: That's called personal style. It's a good thing and it 443 00:19:00,745 --> 00:19:01,185 Speaker 1: suits me. 444 00:19:01,265 --> 00:19:01,625 Speaker 2: I think. 445 00:19:01,785 --> 00:19:03,345 Speaker 1: So are you feeling a bit on the edge of 446 00:19:03,345 --> 00:19:04,545 Speaker 1: a little bit of an evolution? 447 00:19:04,745 --> 00:19:06,665 Speaker 2: I am. I'm feeling like, what does that look like? 448 00:19:06,905 --> 00:19:09,665 Speaker 3: I'm not sure, but I've suddenly started wearing flat shoes, 449 00:19:09,705 --> 00:19:11,945 Speaker 3: which I haven't done for years. Obviously I wear flat 450 00:19:11,985 --> 00:19:14,785 Speaker 3: shoes in my real life, but in my work life. 451 00:19:14,825 --> 00:19:16,945 Speaker 3: Back to that sort of insecurity thing and the feeling 452 00:19:16,945 --> 00:19:19,705 Speaker 3: like I'm a bit short. I always wear a little 453 00:19:19,745 --> 00:19:22,705 Speaker 3: bit of a heel, my clogs or those awesome shoes 454 00:19:22,745 --> 00:19:23,705 Speaker 3: that you got me to buy. 455 00:19:23,905 --> 00:19:25,825 Speaker 1: But when you walk into the studio today, said Holly, 456 00:19:25,865 --> 00:19:27,865 Speaker 1: I love your cage sandals, and you said, thank you. 457 00:19:27,905 --> 00:19:31,745 Speaker 1: What's a cage sand And it's like a thatched sandal, 458 00:19:31,785 --> 00:19:34,225 Speaker 1: but it's closed at the toes. So they're very transseasonal. 459 00:19:34,225 --> 00:19:36,585 Speaker 1: They're the color of the season, cherry red. So look 460 00:19:36,585 --> 00:19:37,505 Speaker 1: how trendy you are. 461 00:19:37,825 --> 00:19:40,025 Speaker 2: I've always loved colorful shoes. 462 00:19:40,665 --> 00:19:42,545 Speaker 3: I think that goes back to the times that I 463 00:19:42,585 --> 00:19:45,305 Speaker 3: haven't felt very confident. You can wear black and a 464 00:19:45,345 --> 00:19:47,945 Speaker 3: great pair of colorful shoes. You can wear jeans, so 465 00:19:48,105 --> 00:19:50,265 Speaker 3: I've always had. I don't think I own any black 466 00:19:50,305 --> 00:19:51,545 Speaker 3: shoes maybe one. 467 00:19:51,665 --> 00:19:53,745 Speaker 1: And I think, you know, pregnancy aside, usually your shoes 468 00:19:53,785 --> 00:19:55,545 Speaker 1: fit in your back fit exactly. At least it's like 469 00:19:55,545 --> 00:19:57,305 Speaker 1: I'm going to bring my joy there if I'm throwing 470 00:19:57,305 --> 00:19:57,745 Speaker 1: on something. 471 00:19:57,825 --> 00:19:58,625 Speaker 2: So I bought these. 472 00:19:58,705 --> 00:20:00,465 Speaker 3: The shoes are wearing today are my new favorite thing. 473 00:20:00,505 --> 00:20:04,265 Speaker 3: They are from bed and they are a bright red 474 00:20:04,345 --> 00:20:06,345 Speaker 3: cherry red sandal and far up. 475 00:20:06,385 --> 00:20:07,145 Speaker 2: They make me happy. 476 00:20:07,225 --> 00:20:10,665 Speaker 1: They're so good to women who are meat or in 477 00:20:10,705 --> 00:20:13,745 Speaker 1: their fifties and they feel like they're stuck in a 478 00:20:13,785 --> 00:20:15,545 Speaker 1: style rush. What's your advice. 479 00:20:15,865 --> 00:20:19,145 Speaker 3: I think that find a couple of pieces that make 480 00:20:19,225 --> 00:20:21,505 Speaker 3: you feel great and work from that. I know I've 481 00:20:21,505 --> 00:20:23,025 Speaker 3: already said it a few times, but I think that 482 00:20:23,225 --> 00:20:25,265 Speaker 3: just discovering this bit of a uniform for me was 483 00:20:25,305 --> 00:20:27,385 Speaker 3: a bit of a turning point, and then it let 484 00:20:27,465 --> 00:20:29,665 Speaker 3: me play with it. So then I was like, oh, well, 485 00:20:29,705 --> 00:20:31,785 Speaker 3: if I can wear this kind of seventies is geen 486 00:20:31,865 --> 00:20:34,585 Speaker 3: and shirt, think i'd probably wear like a denim line 487 00:20:34,625 --> 00:20:35,665 Speaker 3: with my cloggy shoes. 488 00:20:35,705 --> 00:20:38,745 Speaker 1: And that was line piece. Yeah, Phase, you were great 489 00:20:38,785 --> 00:20:40,665 Speaker 1: with you. That was good and it's still in the 490 00:20:40,705 --> 00:20:41,945 Speaker 1: same yeah. 491 00:20:41,585 --> 00:20:44,505 Speaker 3: Exactly, And so that made me feel good. Just start 492 00:20:44,545 --> 00:20:47,945 Speaker 3: with something that doesn't feel too scary. And you know 493 00:20:48,025 --> 00:20:50,185 Speaker 3: what the other thing is is that when you change 494 00:20:50,225 --> 00:20:51,985 Speaker 3: your style a bit, if you don't live in a 495 00:20:52,025 --> 00:20:54,705 Speaker 3: fashioning world, sometimes the people around you can make you 496 00:20:54,745 --> 00:20:57,025 Speaker 3: feel a bit embarrassed about it. They can be like 497 00:20:57,345 --> 00:21:00,625 Speaker 3: I remember when I was in my peak experimental phase 498 00:21:00,905 --> 00:21:03,305 Speaker 3: and I turned up to a place with my old 499 00:21:03,305 --> 00:21:05,625 Speaker 3: friends and I was wearing like these cargo like these 500 00:21:05,705 --> 00:21:07,585 Speaker 3: sort of I don't know why I was wearing them. 501 00:21:07,585 --> 00:21:11,145 Speaker 3: Actually look at the cargo pant they were like blue 502 00:21:11,305 --> 00:21:13,665 Speaker 3: cargo panty pants. And my friend is like, who do 503 00:21:13,705 --> 00:21:15,585 Speaker 3: you think you are? Like, you're a twelve year old boy. 504 00:21:15,865 --> 00:21:17,825 Speaker 2: I was like, well maybe I am today. 505 00:21:18,145 --> 00:21:19,865 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it does, don't comment. 506 00:21:19,945 --> 00:21:22,145 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, So don't let other people scare you and 507 00:21:22,385 --> 00:21:25,025 Speaker 3: just find something you like and then sort of branch out. 508 00:21:25,065 --> 00:21:25,505 Speaker 3: O there. 509 00:21:25,625 --> 00:21:27,825 Speaker 1: I so agree because I think the volume, I mean 510 00:21:28,105 --> 00:21:33,025 Speaker 1: MEA and myself aside, who probably have a problem volume 511 00:21:33,105 --> 00:21:34,665 Speaker 1: is not an ideal scenario. If you're not going to 512 00:21:34,745 --> 00:21:37,105 Speaker 1: wear it, just get your key pieces. That's your ten percent. 513 00:21:37,145 --> 00:21:38,905 Speaker 1: You don't have to have the ninety percent hiding feet 514 00:21:38,905 --> 00:21:39,465 Speaker 1: in the back there. 515 00:21:39,625 --> 00:21:43,105 Speaker 3: I am a mid range queen, right, so I'm scared 516 00:21:43,145 --> 00:21:47,465 Speaker 3: of really expensive clothes, but I'm not really a fast 517 00:21:47,505 --> 00:21:50,585 Speaker 3: fashion range me. If it comes to everything, I'm like, 518 00:21:50,665 --> 00:21:52,465 Speaker 3: I don't want the cheapest and I don't want the 519 00:21:52,545 --> 00:21:53,225 Speaker 3: must expensive. 520 00:21:53,305 --> 00:21:57,625 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very realistic, it's not embarrassing. That's how most 521 00:21:57,625 --> 00:21:59,385 Speaker 1: people are. They want stuff to laugh, but not to 522 00:21:59,385 --> 00:21:59,585 Speaker 1: have to. 523 00:21:59,585 --> 00:22:02,185 Speaker 3: Mortgage their hair because exactly, it's like if you like 524 00:22:02,385 --> 00:22:05,305 Speaker 3: your genes to look like their quality, you know, blah blah. 525 00:22:05,385 --> 00:22:08,945 Speaker 3: And also I literally do wear things for you, which 526 00:22:09,345 --> 00:22:11,025 Speaker 3: you know it's maybe me a bit embarrassing for me, 527 00:22:11,065 --> 00:22:11,385 Speaker 3: but I do. 528 00:22:11,505 --> 00:22:14,545 Speaker 1: It's not holly. That's how the world was speaking of 529 00:22:14,585 --> 00:22:16,385 Speaker 1: what we wear or what we want to wear. Boutie 530 00:22:16,385 --> 00:22:17,305 Speaker 1: in budget time we. 531 00:22:17,305 --> 00:22:22,465 Speaker 2: Have, it's very expensive. How wudre. 532 00:22:25,505 --> 00:22:27,185 Speaker 1: Please start with your budget? 533 00:22:27,505 --> 00:22:33,585 Speaker 3: Okay, so my budget is really boring, but my MVP 534 00:22:33,985 --> 00:22:38,025 Speaker 3: of budget fashion is a pair of denim shorts as 535 00:22:38,065 --> 00:22:40,145 Speaker 3: you get mid and this isn't true for everybody. 536 00:22:40,185 --> 00:22:42,425 Speaker 2: Some people can still rock the hot pants. 537 00:22:42,705 --> 00:22:44,105 Speaker 1: But I don't want to. 538 00:22:44,225 --> 00:22:47,545 Speaker 3: I wear shorts in summer a lot, right, but they 539 00:22:47,625 --> 00:22:51,105 Speaker 3: have to be the right length, not too short but 540 00:22:51,185 --> 00:22:51,985 Speaker 3: not too long. 541 00:22:51,825 --> 00:22:53,745 Speaker 1: Though, and wide enough on the thigh. 542 00:22:53,625 --> 00:22:55,905 Speaker 3: Wide enough on the thigh and high enough in the 543 00:22:55,905 --> 00:22:57,985 Speaker 3: waist that they're a bit flattering, but that you don't 544 00:22:58,025 --> 00:23:01,625 Speaker 3: feel like you're buttoned up. And the best found are 545 00:23:01,665 --> 00:23:04,185 Speaker 3: from just Geens and they called the original seam front 546 00:23:04,225 --> 00:23:07,385 Speaker 3: short and they're denim and they're about fifty five dollars. 547 00:23:07,465 --> 00:23:09,265 Speaker 1: Oh my god. I live in this style of short 548 00:23:09,305 --> 00:23:11,505 Speaker 1: too often. I do a paper bag waste though, because 549 00:23:11,585 --> 00:23:13,625 Speaker 1: with my endo, I like that it kind of looks fashion. 550 00:23:13,665 --> 00:23:16,065 Speaker 1: But then when I'm bloated, if it's not wide enough 551 00:23:16,065 --> 00:23:17,505 Speaker 1: on the thigh, I'm furious. 552 00:23:18,025 --> 00:23:21,025 Speaker 3: No, you need just change so and I have worn 553 00:23:21,105 --> 00:23:24,945 Speaker 3: those all summer long, and I just think that it 554 00:23:24,945 --> 00:23:25,785 Speaker 3: comes to things like shorts. 555 00:23:25,785 --> 00:23:27,065 Speaker 2: I'm not going to spend lots of money. 556 00:23:26,985 --> 00:23:29,785 Speaker 3: No, but also it's a particular cut that you want, 557 00:23:29,865 --> 00:23:32,065 Speaker 3: and then when you find it that she want. 558 00:23:31,985 --> 00:23:33,825 Speaker 1: I agree. I found some that I love to and look, 559 00:23:33,825 --> 00:23:35,425 Speaker 1: I will wear a longer short like that with a 560 00:23:35,465 --> 00:23:37,065 Speaker 1: maybe a kitten heel and a shirt to the office. 561 00:23:37,065 --> 00:23:39,825 Speaker 1: But then at home, I'm so hot and I'm so pery, 562 00:23:39,865 --> 00:23:41,585 Speaker 1: and my bedroom is in the attic and I'm in 563 00:23:41,625 --> 00:23:44,945 Speaker 1: a uniglow cotton singlet and those shorts. That's life and 564 00:23:44,945 --> 00:23:48,065 Speaker 1: I love them. My budget is a bag because I 565 00:23:48,145 --> 00:23:51,585 Speaker 1: feel like, metaphorically, when you get to mid you need 566 00:23:51,785 --> 00:23:54,185 Speaker 1: good shoes and good bags because they're carrying you. 567 00:23:54,425 --> 00:23:55,345 Speaker 2: I need a good bag. 568 00:23:55,425 --> 00:23:58,545 Speaker 1: They're carrying your shit and your emotions and your to 569 00:23:58,625 --> 00:24:01,465 Speaker 1: do list and everything with you. That's why I think 570 00:24:01,505 --> 00:24:04,585 Speaker 1: I'm not saying expensive, but quality shoes and bags really 571 00:24:04,585 --> 00:24:06,305 Speaker 1: get you through at this life stage. Because he's sick 572 00:24:06,305 --> 00:24:08,425 Speaker 1: of being uncomfortable. He's stick his chupid little bags you 573 00:24:08,425 --> 00:24:11,145 Speaker 1: can't carry anything in. It's the Marks and Spencer MS 574 00:24:11,225 --> 00:24:13,785 Speaker 1: Collection quilted shoulder bag. I'm about to buy. 575 00:24:13,785 --> 00:24:14,545 Speaker 2: Manage to Google. 576 00:24:15,065 --> 00:24:17,625 Speaker 1: Well, it's ninety nine ninety nine but at the time recording, 577 00:24:17,625 --> 00:24:19,865 Speaker 1: they have twenty percent off selected styles. This is included. 578 00:24:19,905 --> 00:24:22,745 Speaker 1: They always have twenty percent off. It's a huge bag. 579 00:24:22,785 --> 00:24:24,225 Speaker 1: I'm going to show you. I don't know if the 580 00:24:24,265 --> 00:24:26,545 Speaker 1: finish will be you, but it's this black, sort of 581 00:24:26,665 --> 00:24:30,345 Speaker 1: bubbly fake leather vinyl looking thing. The whole thing zip 582 00:24:30,385 --> 00:24:34,985 Speaker 1: shut because I'm in the phase of forgetfulness through rush life. 583 00:24:35,065 --> 00:24:36,425 Speaker 1: And I put it in my car and of course 584 00:24:36,425 --> 00:24:38,545 Speaker 1: I break and then my bag falls over and everything's everywhere. 585 00:24:38,865 --> 00:24:40,945 Speaker 1: I hate that it's ninety nine ninety nine, it's huge, 586 00:24:41,145 --> 00:24:43,425 Speaker 1: zip shut great for travel, and then there's like a 587 00:24:43,505 --> 00:24:45,425 Speaker 1: tanny color. They've got really good bags. At the moment, 588 00:24:45,505 --> 00:24:48,065 Speaker 1: hole like, I want a tote that fits my whole 589 00:24:48,065 --> 00:24:49,465 Speaker 1: life and zip shut. 590 00:24:49,265 --> 00:24:52,225 Speaker 3: You know, because I'm a commuter person now, and I'm like, 591 00:24:52,625 --> 00:24:54,305 Speaker 3: this is one thing I need advice from that. I 592 00:24:54,345 --> 00:24:55,545 Speaker 3: know this isn't an advice show. 593 00:24:55,625 --> 00:24:57,625 Speaker 1: Well, people don't know how often you and I talk 594 00:24:57,665 --> 00:25:00,385 Speaker 1: about these things, and I love it. 595 00:25:00,745 --> 00:25:01,425 Speaker 2: I'll get a. 596 00:25:01,345 --> 00:25:04,385 Speaker 1: Message from Hollywayen not on a Sunday goings. I'm in Mecca. 597 00:25:04,465 --> 00:25:06,025 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm like, I need a bronze to tell me 598 00:25:06,065 --> 00:25:08,585 Speaker 3: which one. And I also do that with shoes. You 599 00:25:08,625 --> 00:25:10,745 Speaker 3: and me are so very excellent purpose in my life 600 00:25:10,745 --> 00:25:12,705 Speaker 3: in this way, and to be honest, you're more reliable 601 00:25:12,745 --> 00:25:13,745 Speaker 3: with your recommendations. 602 00:25:13,865 --> 00:25:24,785 Speaker 1: She's to me, she's exciting, but she's mean, Okay, what 603 00:25:24,985 --> 00:25:26,305 Speaker 1: is your bougie? 604 00:25:26,385 --> 00:25:26,745 Speaker 2: All right? 605 00:25:26,785 --> 00:25:29,305 Speaker 3: So both my bougies are things I haven't bought. But 606 00:25:29,345 --> 00:25:32,385 Speaker 3: I think I'm seeking permission right because. 607 00:25:32,065 --> 00:25:33,425 Speaker 1: I don't forget you have to tell listeners about the 608 00:25:33,425 --> 00:25:34,465 Speaker 1: shoes I helped you by. 609 00:25:34,465 --> 00:25:36,465 Speaker 3: Oh for one hundred percent. So I don't know if 610 00:25:36,505 --> 00:25:39,185 Speaker 3: these classify as bougie. I guess they do. But when 611 00:25:39,305 --> 00:25:41,345 Speaker 3: last time I asked you, I said, I want a 612 00:25:41,385 --> 00:25:45,585 Speaker 3: mid heel, pointy, like look stressy but not uncomfortable. You 613 00:25:45,625 --> 00:25:48,585 Speaker 3: put me onto this brand called Vivea, is am I 614 00:25:48,625 --> 00:25:52,385 Speaker 3: saying that that's right, Vivea, and they I bought these bad. 615 00:25:52,425 --> 00:25:53,305 Speaker 2: Oh my god, I love them. 616 00:25:53,345 --> 00:25:55,305 Speaker 3: I'm so excited for it to be cold to them 617 00:25:55,305 --> 00:25:57,505 Speaker 3: again because they're like very close toe pointy, a bit 618 00:25:57,585 --> 00:25:58,585 Speaker 3: much for this time of year. 619 00:25:58,865 --> 00:26:00,305 Speaker 2: Dark red, which is one of my. 620 00:26:00,305 --> 00:26:04,425 Speaker 3: Favorite colors, it's got these like sea throughy directional heels. 621 00:26:04,545 --> 00:26:07,385 Speaker 3: I love, little bit of a heel, but not too much, 622 00:26:07,705 --> 00:26:09,905 Speaker 3: very pointy, which I never normally wear. But because they're 623 00:26:09,945 --> 00:26:11,345 Speaker 3: this stretchy material, they're great. 624 00:26:11,505 --> 00:26:13,505 Speaker 1: It's like a knitted fabric. A lot of people have 625 00:26:13,625 --> 00:26:16,505 Speaker 1: seen ankle boots, like pointy ankle boots in this knitted fabric, 626 00:26:16,505 --> 00:26:19,465 Speaker 1: almost like a holyyist a sock type vibe. But these ones, 627 00:26:19,505 --> 00:26:20,945 Speaker 1: they do a courtry and sling back. 628 00:26:20,985 --> 00:26:22,905 Speaker 3: So I bought those and I wore them to death. 629 00:26:23,025 --> 00:26:26,345 Speaker 3: And then I bought a navy blue sling back pair 630 00:26:26,385 --> 00:26:28,345 Speaker 3: of those with a little kitten heel and I love 631 00:26:28,425 --> 00:26:30,905 Speaker 3: those two and they are comfy and they are great. 632 00:26:31,185 --> 00:26:32,425 Speaker 3: And that's the thing is that one of the things 633 00:26:32,465 --> 00:26:35,505 Speaker 3: I think about trends is I don't feel like I'm cooling. Well, 634 00:26:35,585 --> 00:26:37,185 Speaker 3: I don't want to be. It's not that I don't 635 00:26:37,185 --> 00:26:39,345 Speaker 3: feel like I am cool enough to wear something really 636 00:26:39,425 --> 00:26:42,425 Speaker 3: like out their directional stretchy boots, but I like a 637 00:26:42,545 --> 00:26:44,105 Speaker 3: hint of it, do you know what I mean? 638 00:26:44,145 --> 00:26:45,585 Speaker 1: So don't want to wear it next winter in the 639 00:26:45,625 --> 00:26:47,385 Speaker 1: winter after, and you want to be comfortable exactly. 640 00:26:47,945 --> 00:26:50,905 Speaker 2: But the thing I'm thinking about buying, there's. 641 00:26:50,745 --> 00:26:54,785 Speaker 3: A dress that I have hired from Dress Higher Place 642 00:26:55,225 --> 00:26:57,545 Speaker 3: three maybe four times now, and it cost me two 643 00:26:57,625 --> 00:27:00,385 Speaker 3: hundred dollars every time. I dress should have bought the dress. 644 00:27:00,665 --> 00:27:03,585 Speaker 3: And it's a Rixo dress. Oh I love, and it's 645 00:27:03,665 --> 00:27:05,785 Speaker 3: I wore it to the Live shirt. And it's green 646 00:27:05,985 --> 00:27:08,865 Speaker 3: because green is another color I can wear. And it 647 00:27:08,985 --> 00:27:12,665 Speaker 3: is see quins. But it's got sleeves because this is 648 00:27:12,705 --> 00:27:14,825 Speaker 3: a big thing for a lot of midwomen. And again 649 00:27:14,865 --> 00:27:17,305 Speaker 3: I'm not telling anyone to cover their arms, but for me, 650 00:27:17,505 --> 00:27:20,625 Speaker 3: it's got sleeves. But it's still gorgeous. 651 00:27:20,145 --> 00:27:21,825 Speaker 1: And you feel better with that kind of car. 652 00:27:22,065 --> 00:27:24,465 Speaker 3: It's got these wide sleeves, it's got a very lovely cut. 653 00:27:24,505 --> 00:27:28,065 Speaker 3: I love that fricking dress. It's called the Coco Sequineration. 654 00:27:27,465 --> 00:27:29,665 Speaker 1: To purchase, But may I suggest if you've hired it 655 00:27:29,665 --> 00:27:31,545 Speaker 1: from the same place that many times offer them, to 656 00:27:31,585 --> 00:27:34,145 Speaker 1: buy it, because oftentimes higher places will sell X rental. 657 00:27:34,785 --> 00:27:36,185 Speaker 1: So just say, hey, can I buy that? 658 00:27:36,225 --> 00:27:38,145 Speaker 2: I pretty much live in that dress. 659 00:27:38,385 --> 00:27:38,585 Speaker 1: Yeah. 660 00:27:38,785 --> 00:27:40,585 Speaker 3: And the other thing I'm dying to buy that I 661 00:27:40,625 --> 00:27:41,465 Speaker 3: need permission to. 662 00:27:42,345 --> 00:27:44,665 Speaker 2: Is don't need habit shoes? 663 00:27:44,705 --> 00:27:47,985 Speaker 3: Do you know that brand at Abbot Please? They're Australian, 664 00:27:48,545 --> 00:27:51,425 Speaker 3: quite classy shoes. I go to their site all the 665 00:27:51,465 --> 00:27:53,105 Speaker 3: time and just look at them all. But see, this 666 00:27:53,145 --> 00:27:55,505 Speaker 3: is the thing about shoes, right, those shoes are. 667 00:27:55,385 --> 00:27:59,145 Speaker 1: A bow tee four. Oh they're four ninety five. Yeah, 668 00:27:59,185 --> 00:28:01,505 Speaker 1: they're like expensive, some for like three twenty. 669 00:28:02,265 --> 00:28:04,465 Speaker 3: I love a lot of their shoes. But then these 670 00:28:04,585 --> 00:28:05,585 Speaker 3: all bed. 671 00:28:05,425 --> 00:28:07,705 Speaker 2: Sandals were two sixty nine, which. 672 00:28:07,625 --> 00:28:11,265 Speaker 1: Is quite expensive for me pain for comfort, and like, 673 00:28:11,945 --> 00:28:14,385 Speaker 1: I shall look into this and report back. And a 674 00:28:14,505 --> 00:28:16,665 Speaker 1: nice segue there is my bougie is a pair of 675 00:28:16,745 --> 00:28:19,625 Speaker 1: shoes not as boogie as the original shoes I wanted. 676 00:28:19,705 --> 00:28:23,305 Speaker 1: So they're a dupe, so they because I'm ready for 677 00:28:23,385 --> 00:28:24,265 Speaker 1: winter already. 678 00:28:24,265 --> 00:28:27,105 Speaker 2: I'm so jumping at the bit to get into your 679 00:28:27,145 --> 00:28:27,905 Speaker 2: winter wardrobe. 680 00:28:27,905 --> 00:28:30,385 Speaker 1: And my winter is similar to last winter that I'm 681 00:28:30,425 --> 00:28:33,585 Speaker 1: doing a lot of light colors, grays and Beijia's, And 682 00:28:33,625 --> 00:28:35,345 Speaker 1: I don't love a dark shoe either. 683 00:28:35,185 --> 00:28:37,745 Speaker 2: Do you. You don't miss color, You're not a color. 684 00:28:38,345 --> 00:28:41,865 Speaker 1: And it makes it harder to get dressed. Yeah, I 685 00:28:41,985 --> 00:28:42,985 Speaker 1: like shades. 686 00:28:43,425 --> 00:28:45,265 Speaker 2: You look great than neutrals, thank you. 687 00:28:45,505 --> 00:28:47,705 Speaker 1: I have very large feet, not that we doesn't matter. 688 00:28:47,705 --> 00:28:50,545 Speaker 1: I don't have ankles, so I'm not really about a big, 689 00:28:50,625 --> 00:28:52,985 Speaker 1: chunky black loafer because it just would look silly. So 690 00:28:53,625 --> 00:28:55,825 Speaker 1: there's a loafer I've wanted for quite a while. It's 691 00:28:55,865 --> 00:28:58,585 Speaker 1: a Saint Laurent loafer, which I will not be purchasing 692 00:28:58,585 --> 00:29:00,145 Speaker 1: as it is not in the budget, and also the 693 00:29:00,225 --> 00:29:02,425 Speaker 1: jupe is fabulous. So the Saint Laurent loafer is called 694 00:29:02,465 --> 00:29:05,465 Speaker 1: the lo Loafer leather loafers. They're one thousand, six hundred 695 00:29:05,465 --> 00:29:07,585 Speaker 1: dollars and they come in sort of an ivory color. 696 00:29:08,105 --> 00:29:10,505 Speaker 1: Our lovely friends at Tony Ban Curve done is similar, 697 00:29:10,705 --> 00:29:13,545 Speaker 1: I'd say jute, but not a rip off called the 698 00:29:14,545 --> 00:29:17,105 Speaker 1: Nice Gatsby. The color I like, well, the color I 699 00:29:17,105 --> 00:29:21,025 Speaker 1: bought that's on the way. It's vanilla vanilla venice. Because 700 00:29:21,065 --> 00:29:23,145 Speaker 1: I'm going to be like a light colored, like a 701 00:29:23,185 --> 00:29:27,065 Speaker 1: milky colored lofar with my wide leg pants, which I'll 702 00:29:27,065 --> 00:29:28,665 Speaker 1: never be up in my jeans. But also I'm going 703 00:29:28,665 --> 00:29:31,985 Speaker 1: to be a flowy Maxie in a knit, so the 704 00:29:32,105 --> 00:29:34,865 Speaker 1: floy Maxie in a I'm proud of myself for not 705 00:29:35,145 --> 00:29:38,025 Speaker 1: spending Saint Laurent money and somehow that made me justify 706 00:29:38,065 --> 00:29:40,505 Speaker 1: shoes over two hundred dollars from twenty Banco. But I've 707 00:29:40,505 --> 00:29:42,705 Speaker 1: got the other of their flats. They're comfortable, They've got 708 00:29:42,705 --> 00:29:44,385 Speaker 1: a returns policy, so when they turn up, if I 709 00:29:44,385 --> 00:29:46,665 Speaker 1: don't like them, I'll return them. But I just think 710 00:29:47,105 --> 00:29:49,265 Speaker 1: women of a certain age is sick of being uncomfortable. 711 00:29:49,345 --> 00:29:51,785 Speaker 1: I want shoes I look forward to wearing that are comfortable, 712 00:29:51,785 --> 00:29:54,025 Speaker 1: and a bag that carries all of my physical and 713 00:29:54,065 --> 00:29:56,865 Speaker 1: emotional life. Hollywayne, right, I love you. 714 00:29:56,785 --> 00:29:58,865 Speaker 2: I love your two friends. It's been so good. Can 715 00:29:58,905 --> 00:29:59,985 Speaker 2: I come on all your shows? 716 00:30:00,185 --> 00:30:01,825 Speaker 1: Yes? I don't want to come on yours because that 717 00:30:01,865 --> 00:30:04,225 Speaker 1: means I'm officially mid and I've only just started Magel. 718 00:30:04,665 --> 00:30:05,825 Speaker 1: Thank you for joining me. 719 00:30:06,025 --> 00:30:07,025 Speaker 2: Thank you, Lee. 720 00:30:07,305 --> 00:30:10,185 Speaker 1: Well, that was my dream to have my girl crush, 721 00:30:10,225 --> 00:30:12,625 Speaker 1: Holly Wainwright on the show, so I'm very happy. So 722 00:30:12,705 --> 00:30:14,465 Speaker 1: thank you for listening to Nothing to Wear. I hope 723 00:30:14,505 --> 00:30:17,145 Speaker 1: you enjoyed And it wouldn't have been possible without the 724 00:30:17,185 --> 00:30:20,465 Speaker 1: wonderful producer that is Cassie Merritt, with audio production by 725 00:30:20,505 --> 00:30:21,025 Speaker 1: Low Hill