1 00:00:10,622 --> 00:00:13,341 Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. 2 00:00:13,822 --> 00:00:17,182 Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 3 00:00:17,222 --> 00:00:18,741 Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. 4 00:00:20,182 --> 00:00:22,101 Speaker 3: It's so funny because everyone's, you know, so busy with 5 00:00:22,142 --> 00:00:23,861 Speaker 3: their jobs and it's two o'clock on a Tuesday, and 6 00:00:24,021 --> 00:00:26,382 Speaker 3: all fourteen people jumped in there and they were like, 7 00:00:26,781 --> 00:00:29,101 Speaker 3: you go, girl, Dad is not their take it to 8 00:00:29,142 --> 00:00:33,102 Speaker 3: the union all you call the Prime Minister. He's got 9 00:00:33,142 --> 00:00:36,262 Speaker 3: to hear about. Like, we just escalated and escalated and escalated. 10 00:00:36,702 --> 00:00:39,541 Speaker 3: That's not what she was looking for a point of view. 11 00:00:39,582 --> 00:00:42,702 Speaker 3: She was she needed fourteen women. Yeah, to go, they 12 00:00:42,862 --> 00:00:44,022 Speaker 3: don't value you. 13 00:00:50,062 --> 00:00:52,902 Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Mama Mia out loud. It's what 14 00:00:52,942 --> 00:00:55,942 Speaker 2: women are actually talking about. On Wednesday, the fifth of February, 15 00:00:56,022 --> 00:00:57,662 Speaker 2: I'm Holly Waynwright. 16 00:00:57,302 --> 00:00:59,502 Speaker 3: I'm Meya Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens. 17 00:00:59,582 --> 00:01:01,982 Speaker 2: And on the show today, my hair is on fire 18 00:01:02,102 --> 00:01:04,222 Speaker 2: about the new president of the USA and I'm not 19 00:01:04,262 --> 00:01:07,502 Speaker 2: even talking about Donald Trump. Why even me is telling 20 00:01:07,542 --> 00:01:08,262 Speaker 2: me to calm down? 21 00:01:08,301 --> 00:01:08,742 Speaker 4: This week? 22 00:01:09,182 --> 00:01:12,542 Speaker 2: Also, Jesse has an all or nothing story for us 23 00:01:12,622 --> 00:01:16,302 Speaker 2: about how two of Australia's most successful online women are 24 00:01:16,342 --> 00:01:20,581 Speaker 2: at war and are you a feedback friend, but first, 25 00:01:20,702 --> 00:01:21,581 Speaker 2: Jesse Stevens. 26 00:01:21,822 --> 00:01:24,862 Speaker 3: In case you missed it, diet coke and soft drink 27 00:01:25,022 --> 00:01:28,302 Speaker 3: more broadly is back in a big way, and that's because, 28 00:01:28,702 --> 00:01:31,022 Speaker 3: as I've said on this show before, it is a lovely, 29 00:01:31,102 --> 00:01:34,902 Speaker 3: refreshing beverage. Soft drink demand in the US is higher 30 00:01:34,902 --> 00:01:37,101 Speaker 3: than it's been in years, and the soft drink market 31 00:01:37,102 --> 00:01:40,542 Speaker 3: in Australia is projected to grow over the next four years. 32 00:01:40,782 --> 00:01:42,822 Speaker 1: Do you reckon? You're either a soft drink family or 33 00:01:42,862 --> 00:01:45,662 Speaker 1: you're not. Like I was not allowed soft drink in 34 00:01:45,702 --> 00:01:48,422 Speaker 1: our house, and I was always shocked whenever I'd see 35 00:01:48,822 --> 00:01:53,262 Speaker 1: the biggest selling item in a supermarket is Coca Cola. 36 00:01:53,422 --> 00:01:56,102 Speaker 3: I feel shamed because when I was a kid, we 37 00:01:56,102 --> 00:01:58,582 Speaker 3: weren't a big soft drink family. It was definitely a novelty, 38 00:01:58,622 --> 00:02:01,102 Speaker 3: a Friday night novelty. But when I was a teenager 39 00:02:01,102 --> 00:02:02,702 Speaker 3: and I had a bit of pocket money, it was 40 00:02:02,742 --> 00:02:05,142 Speaker 3: all about the corner shop and going and just getting 41 00:02:05,142 --> 00:02:07,982 Speaker 3: myself a cheeky little I grew up with Britney spears 42 00:02:07,982 --> 00:02:09,822 Speaker 3: with diet coke on a boat like it was. It 43 00:02:09,862 --> 00:02:11,462 Speaker 3: was marketed to a boat. 44 00:02:11,982 --> 00:02:13,662 Speaker 2: It's weird to me that it's on the increase though, 45 00:02:13,662 --> 00:02:16,942 Speaker 2: because aren't we all so very like butcher smoothie. 46 00:02:17,181 --> 00:02:18,622 Speaker 1: Also, diet's not a. 47 00:02:19,462 --> 00:02:22,542 Speaker 3: Well, firstly, I've been an ambassador for a while, just 48 00:02:22,622 --> 00:02:25,982 Speaker 3: gracefully unpaid, and that it's gone to be clear, this. 49 00:02:25,942 --> 00:02:29,382 Speaker 1: Is not a sponsor segment. And Jesse isn't actually an ambassador. 50 00:02:29,542 --> 00:02:32,582 Speaker 1: She cause herself one to justify her diago. 51 00:02:32,662 --> 00:02:34,222 Speaker 3: I would love this to be sponsored, but they won't 52 00:02:34,222 --> 00:02:37,022 Speaker 3: pay me or because I keep giving them publicity. So 53 00:02:37,181 --> 00:02:39,302 Speaker 3: I've gone some way and popularizing the fizzy drink, but 54 00:02:39,342 --> 00:02:42,822 Speaker 3: it's not on me. Donald Trump, President Donald Trump has 55 00:02:42,862 --> 00:02:45,942 Speaker 3: brought back his diet coke button? What's that in the 56 00:02:45,982 --> 00:02:48,501 Speaker 3: Oval office? So when you come back in you get 57 00:02:48,502 --> 00:02:50,262 Speaker 3: to make some I'll change the curtains. 58 00:02:51,062 --> 00:02:52,982 Speaker 1: They give you a little books with all the options 59 00:02:52,982 --> 00:02:54,942 Speaker 1: of different curtains and different Can. 60 00:02:54,782 --> 00:02:57,102 Speaker 2: You imagine how big your tea cup would be if 61 00:02:57,102 --> 00:02:58,942 Speaker 2: you're a president of the United States. 62 00:02:58,942 --> 00:02:59,222 Speaker 4: True? 63 00:02:59,582 --> 00:03:02,181 Speaker 3: Well, he has like a wooden box and it has 64 00:03:02,181 --> 00:03:04,982 Speaker 3: a button, and when he clicks the button, someone brings 65 00:03:05,022 --> 00:03:08,342 Speaker 3: him a diet coke on a silver platter. He loves it. 66 00:03:09,582 --> 00:03:11,942 Speaker 3: Else is a big diet coke guy. Is our good 67 00:03:11,982 --> 00:03:15,062 Speaker 3: friend Elon Musk. We'll get to him He recently said 68 00:03:15,062 --> 00:03:17,302 Speaker 3: that he tried to drink less diet coke, but he 69 00:03:17,342 --> 00:03:20,342 Speaker 3: didn't see any benefits. He reflected that his health stayed 70 00:03:20,382 --> 00:03:22,901 Speaker 3: the same, he felt less happy and he lost his 71 00:03:23,062 --> 00:03:24,341 Speaker 3: only source of joy. 72 00:03:24,622 --> 00:03:26,302 Speaker 4: It's only source of joy. 73 00:03:26,662 --> 00:03:31,302 Speaker 3: Hard related then, celebrities like Dua Lipa Big and diet 74 00:03:31,382 --> 00:03:33,621 Speaker 3: coke has been going viral on TikTok all the different 75 00:03:33,622 --> 00:03:34,582 Speaker 3: things you can add to it. 76 00:03:34,702 --> 00:03:37,102 Speaker 1: What's the difference between diet coke and. 77 00:03:37,102 --> 00:03:41,942 Speaker 3: Pepsi max No coke zero? Coke zero is trying to 78 00:03:42,062 --> 00:03:44,982 Speaker 3: be coke. It's trying to be coke without the sugar, 79 00:03:45,142 --> 00:03:46,662 Speaker 3: whereas diet coke is its own thing. 80 00:03:47,342 --> 00:03:49,542 Speaker 1: Di coke doesn't. So I don't drink any of these drinks. 81 00:03:49,542 --> 00:03:53,142 Speaker 1: But does diet coke diet coaste different to coke? I 82 00:03:53,142 --> 00:03:55,502 Speaker 1: think zero tastes like coke, Yes. 83 00:03:55,382 --> 00:03:57,382 Speaker 3: Exactly right, dik coke does not taste like coke. I 84 00:03:57,382 --> 00:03:59,582 Speaker 3: can't drink coke zero. It's disgusting. I would spit it out. 85 00:03:59,742 --> 00:04:00,542 Speaker 1: Can you drink coke? 86 00:04:01,662 --> 00:04:03,902 Speaker 3: I don't really love it. I love a frozen coke 87 00:04:03,942 --> 00:04:06,262 Speaker 3: at the movies. But diet coke and Pepsi Max and 88 00:04:06,302 --> 00:04:10,462 Speaker 3: my two kind of go tos. But look, clock is 89 00:04:10,822 --> 00:04:12,782 Speaker 3: right twice a day, as we say, and I am 90 00:04:12,862 --> 00:04:13,942 Speaker 3: at this moment. 91 00:04:13,902 --> 00:04:17,181 Speaker 1: On trend, Oh my gosh, you and Elon Yeah, go 92 00:04:17,301 --> 00:04:17,741 Speaker 1: for gold. 93 00:04:18,702 --> 00:04:21,102 Speaker 2: Just jumping in to let you know that we recorded 94 00:04:21,142 --> 00:04:24,342 Speaker 2: this episode of Mamma Mia out loud before the latest 95 00:04:24,342 --> 00:04:26,941 Speaker 2: announcement from Donald Trump about Gaza. So if you're wondering 96 00:04:26,981 --> 00:04:29,501 Speaker 2: why we don't mention that in our segment about American 97 00:04:29,501 --> 00:04:36,662 Speaker 2: politics today, That's why. One of the personal rules I 98 00:04:36,741 --> 00:04:39,101 Speaker 2: try to live by is that when my wise but 99 00:04:39,181 --> 00:04:42,302 Speaker 2: excitable friend Mere Friedman tells me to calm down and 100 00:04:42,462 --> 00:04:46,541 Speaker 2: probably spirally. So it has been this week when I've 101 00:04:46,582 --> 00:04:49,621 Speaker 2: walked into several of our meetings with my hair smoking 102 00:04:49,741 --> 00:04:52,261 Speaker 2: from the fire. I was trying to hastily slap down 103 00:04:52,662 --> 00:04:57,582 Speaker 2: after reading or listening to something happening in America, specifically 104 00:04:57,741 --> 00:05:00,821 Speaker 2: the dramatic way that one very rich man seems to 105 00:05:00,861 --> 00:05:05,741 Speaker 2: have suddenly been granted blanket control over everything and by extension, 106 00:05:06,022 --> 00:05:08,981 Speaker 2: everyone and perhaps other bits of the world. And I'm 107 00:05:09,022 --> 00:05:12,022 Speaker 2: not even talking about Donald Trump. You might have seen 108 00:05:12,061 --> 00:05:15,781 Speaker 2: headlines around this week like Elon Musk is President now 109 00:05:15,821 --> 00:05:18,861 Speaker 2: and how the world's richest man laid waste to the US. 110 00:05:18,821 --> 00:05:20,782 Speaker 4: Government and you might be going, what. 111 00:05:21,262 --> 00:05:24,582 Speaker 2: So I'm going to attempt a very brief explainer that 112 00:05:24,621 --> 00:05:28,502 Speaker 2: we're calling Elon Musk what the fuck? And I'm going 113 00:05:28,541 --> 00:05:29,981 Speaker 2: to remain calm doing it. 114 00:05:30,621 --> 00:05:33,622 Speaker 1: Can I just interrupt and say quickly, it's very strange. 115 00:05:33,662 --> 00:05:36,142 Speaker 1: It's a bit upside down day because for so many years, 116 00:05:36,181 --> 00:05:39,462 Speaker 1: like eight years, I have been the one coming in 117 00:05:39,501 --> 00:05:42,701 Speaker 1: with my hair on fire, and every time I would 118 00:05:42,741 --> 00:05:46,061 Speaker 1: try and picture story on Trump when he was president, 119 00:05:47,022 --> 00:05:50,141 Speaker 1: I would be told it's too weedy, it's far away. 120 00:05:50,301 --> 00:05:52,181 Speaker 1: And so what's funny is that Hole's been coming in 121 00:05:52,181 --> 00:05:54,222 Speaker 1: with a hair on fire a lot in the last week. 122 00:05:54,541 --> 00:05:57,262 Speaker 1: And I've literally been saying, I don't know about this 123 00:05:57,342 --> 00:05:59,061 Speaker 1: because I've made a rule that I don't click on 124 00:05:59,101 --> 00:05:59,981 Speaker 1: any story. 125 00:05:59,821 --> 00:06:02,421 Speaker 3: You'll burnt out. And I don't think that everyone's burnt out. 126 00:06:02,501 --> 00:06:04,662 Speaker 3: I saw a graph the other day that said that 127 00:06:04,702 --> 00:06:08,501 Speaker 3: we have experienced about a year's worth of news in 128 00:06:08,981 --> 00:06:11,222 Speaker 3: a week, which is why it feels like you cannot 129 00:06:11,301 --> 00:06:13,461 Speaker 3: keep up with the headlines. I feel as though that 130 00:06:13,621 --> 00:06:16,421 Speaker 3: is a very intentional strategy. 131 00:06:16,582 --> 00:06:18,701 Speaker 1: Like shock and awe. So just like so much is 132 00:06:18,741 --> 00:06:21,981 Speaker 1: going on you can't even keep it out of your thoughts. 133 00:06:22,022 --> 00:06:25,061 Speaker 1: To respond to one thing, because then another huge thing happens. 134 00:06:25,342 --> 00:06:30,622 Speaker 3: Whilst I heard Elon Musk was appointed a position from 135 00:06:30,662 --> 00:06:34,222 Speaker 3: Donald Trump. Can you update me on what's been happening 136 00:06:34,222 --> 00:06:34,821 Speaker 3: with that position? 137 00:06:34,861 --> 00:06:37,861 Speaker 2: Please allow me, and please note my carbon measured tone. 138 00:06:38,101 --> 00:06:40,821 Speaker 2: Of course, this is top line because government policy is complicated. 139 00:06:40,821 --> 00:06:43,421 Speaker 2: So don't at me, woks, don't at me, okay. 140 00:06:43,301 --> 00:06:46,861 Speaker 1: Especially if someone's government. It isn't even your government exactly so, 141 00:06:47,142 --> 00:06:48,261 Speaker 1: but give it a red hot crap. 142 00:06:48,662 --> 00:06:52,981 Speaker 2: As you said, Jesse, Donald Trump appointed Mosque, the man 143 00:06:52,981 --> 00:06:55,261 Speaker 2: that he credits with getting him elected in many ways, 144 00:06:55,582 --> 00:06:58,782 Speaker 2: as boss man of something called DOGE. Now that's the 145 00:06:58,821 --> 00:07:01,622 Speaker 2: Department of Government Efficiency, and it's a made up thing. 146 00:07:01,621 --> 00:07:04,421 Speaker 2: It's a bit like the Ministry of Magic. People like magic, 147 00:07:04,541 --> 00:07:07,502 Speaker 2: people like efficiency. Right, efficiency is. 148 00:07:07,501 --> 00:07:09,181 Speaker 1: Good cost saving fat cats. 149 00:07:09,982 --> 00:07:15,542 Speaker 2: This weekend, Musk swung his big Doge into action. But 150 00:07:15,662 --> 00:07:18,542 Speaker 2: it seems to be about a lot more than efficiency. 151 00:07:18,742 --> 00:07:18,941 Speaker 1: Right. 152 00:07:19,782 --> 00:07:22,022 Speaker 4: For example, he has this team. 153 00:07:21,941 --> 00:07:25,662 Speaker 2: Of employees and they're being branded, perhaps unfairly as Muscovites 154 00:07:25,742 --> 00:07:27,261 Speaker 2: by the media, but they do seem to be a 155 00:07:27,262 --> 00:07:30,422 Speaker 2: lot of like X and Tesla and Skylink employees, and 156 00:07:30,422 --> 00:07:31,701 Speaker 2: they're all like young bros. 157 00:07:31,902 --> 00:07:34,542 Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw pictures of like eight of them. It 158 00:07:34,542 --> 00:07:37,422 Speaker 1: looked like it was like their college yearbook photos, except 159 00:07:37,422 --> 00:07:39,342 Speaker 1: that's now they look very young. 160 00:07:39,502 --> 00:07:42,502 Speaker 2: You won't be a tall alarmed with that. In mind 161 00:07:42,582 --> 00:07:45,502 Speaker 2: that the Treasury this weekend gave them all the passwords 162 00:07:45,502 --> 00:07:48,622 Speaker 2: and access to the whole federal government's payment system. 163 00:07:48,862 --> 00:07:51,342 Speaker 4: So that seems good right now. 164 00:07:51,502 --> 00:07:54,502 Speaker 2: What they've been doing with their doge is going into 165 00:07:54,542 --> 00:07:57,542 Speaker 2: government departments and in some cases closing them down, taking 166 00:07:57,542 --> 00:07:59,342 Speaker 2: them offline, or just firing people. 167 00:07:59,422 --> 00:08:00,461 Speaker 1: That's big dough energy. 168 00:08:00,502 --> 00:08:02,062 Speaker 4: It's big doge energy, my goodness. 169 00:08:02,062 --> 00:08:03,502 Speaker 3: So it's what Musk did to Twitter. 170 00:08:03,782 --> 00:08:06,742 Speaker 2: It is very much now Again, plenty of people like 171 00:08:06,902 --> 00:08:10,261 Speaker 2: what's called small government. People are like, that's good, less waste, 172 00:08:10,782 --> 00:08:14,982 Speaker 2: more efficiency, good good good. But like the ministry of magic, 173 00:08:15,102 --> 00:08:19,182 Speaker 2: in certain ideological hands, this power can change a lot 174 00:08:19,182 --> 00:08:22,742 Speaker 2: of LIFs. So remember the US government things it funds, 175 00:08:22,782 --> 00:08:23,982 Speaker 2: so things that it pays for. 176 00:08:24,142 --> 00:08:24,382 Speaker 1: Right. 177 00:08:24,462 --> 00:08:26,422 Speaker 4: It pays for healthcare to a point we all know 178 00:08:26,462 --> 00:08:27,902 Speaker 4: that American health care isn't. 179 00:08:27,662 --> 00:08:30,381 Speaker 2: Great, but for people who are on really low incomes 180 00:08:30,582 --> 00:08:34,222 Speaker 2: and veterans and old people. Pays for that, Social Security 181 00:08:34,222 --> 00:08:38,222 Speaker 2: for the elderly, public education, It pays for defense, It 182 00:08:38,262 --> 00:08:41,222 Speaker 2: pays for transportation, for roads and rail, and it pays 183 00:08:41,222 --> 00:08:42,302 Speaker 2: for like science and research. 184 00:08:42,302 --> 00:08:44,902 Speaker 1: So that's quite a lot of important stuff. Right. 185 00:08:45,062 --> 00:08:48,822 Speaker 2: Here are a few things that those fresh faced young 186 00:08:48,862 --> 00:08:51,942 Speaker 2: men from Mosque's team did on the weekend. They sent 187 00:08:52,502 --> 00:08:56,182 Speaker 2: two million government employees a little pop up message on 188 00:08:56,222 --> 00:09:01,062 Speaker 2: their computers encouraging them to resign immediately click here, agreed 189 00:09:01,102 --> 00:09:04,502 Speaker 2: to these terms, and off you go. Apparently, so far 190 00:09:04,582 --> 00:09:06,662 Speaker 2: only twenty thousand of those people have taken it up. 191 00:09:06,822 --> 00:09:10,022 Speaker 1: Why so, I know that Trump said every government employee 192 00:09:10,062 --> 00:09:12,582 Speaker 1: has to come back to work five days a week, 193 00:09:12,702 --> 00:09:15,102 Speaker 1: and if you don't want to do that, quit now 194 00:09:15,342 --> 00:09:17,822 Speaker 1: and we'll pay you like eight months worth of salary. 195 00:09:17,862 --> 00:09:20,942 Speaker 1: But please reply to this email with the subject line 196 00:09:21,182 --> 00:09:23,702 Speaker 1: resign exactly right, Like it's like that. 197 00:09:23,782 --> 00:09:25,902 Speaker 2: It is like that, So agree to all these terms 198 00:09:25,942 --> 00:09:27,942 Speaker 2: and off you go. Obviously, the plan is to try 199 00:09:27,982 --> 00:09:29,542 Speaker 2: and get rid of a lot of people because doge 200 00:09:29,542 --> 00:09:32,862 Speaker 2: because efficiency. Also one thing that happened is many government 201 00:09:32,902 --> 00:09:36,142 Speaker 2: websites went dark so that they could have what's called 202 00:09:36,182 --> 00:09:39,542 Speaker 2: inclusive language in a commas scrubbed from them. Now, this 203 00:09:39,742 --> 00:09:41,582 Speaker 2: is a piece of theater, right because we work on 204 00:09:41,622 --> 00:09:45,702 Speaker 2: the internet and you can edit a website without taking 205 00:09:45,742 --> 00:09:48,302 Speaker 2: it down. You can edit your Instagram caption without taking 206 00:09:48,382 --> 00:09:50,902 Speaker 2: you can. But the way they've done this is with 207 00:09:50,982 --> 00:09:53,902 Speaker 2: maximum drama. So a lot of sites just went offline 208 00:09:54,262 --> 00:09:57,302 Speaker 2: and then came back online with their edits. Some of 209 00:09:57,302 --> 00:10:01,422 Speaker 2: those edits included the Center of Disease Control, removal of 210 00:10:01,462 --> 00:10:08,422 Speaker 2: pages about LBGTQ, youth health, HIV and MPOX prevention, giving 211 00:10:08,462 --> 00:10:12,262 Speaker 2: you a vibe right you vibe any state government references 212 00:10:12,262 --> 00:10:15,462 Speaker 2: to transgender people removed, changing the word gender on all 213 00:10:15,502 --> 00:10:19,502 Speaker 2: tick boxes to sex. Removal of the Spanish language version 214 00:10:19,582 --> 00:10:23,102 Speaker 2: of the White House website like oh my god, random shit. 215 00:10:23,822 --> 00:10:27,542 Speaker 2: And then also some entire departments were dismantled, so the 216 00:10:27,742 --> 00:10:30,662 Speaker 2: US Agency for International Development, which is the biggest provider 217 00:10:30,662 --> 00:10:32,702 Speaker 2: of food aid in the world, those people had to. 218 00:10:32,622 --> 00:10:35,142 Speaker 4: Clear up their desks. If you go, no, we're not 219 00:10:35,182 --> 00:10:35,822 Speaker 4: doing that anymore. 220 00:10:35,822 --> 00:10:38,862 Speaker 1: It's interesting you say random, and it does seem random, 221 00:10:38,862 --> 00:10:41,302 Speaker 1: but it's also not. It's basically saying, if you are 222 00:10:41,382 --> 00:10:44,702 Speaker 1: not a white man, you don't exist for us. You 223 00:10:44,742 --> 00:10:47,662 Speaker 1: are not a priority. In some cases, you literally don't 224 00:10:47,702 --> 00:10:51,902 Speaker 1: exist anymore as far as the councilor US government's concerned. 225 00:10:51,982 --> 00:10:53,302 Speaker 4: And lastly, although probably not. 226 00:10:53,382 --> 00:10:56,542 Speaker 2: Lastly, Let's face it, a lot of government communication was 227 00:10:56,582 --> 00:11:01,022 Speaker 2: shifted over exclusively to X SO, things like press releases 228 00:11:01,022 --> 00:11:03,342 Speaker 2: for the Transportation Authority. So so you know there was 229 00:11:03,382 --> 00:11:07,422 Speaker 2: that massive plane crash recently, so all information about that 230 00:11:07,462 --> 00:11:11,302 Speaker 2: from the Transportation Authority is now no longer being emailed 231 00:11:11,302 --> 00:11:14,462 Speaker 2: out to journalists or available anywhere else than on X 232 00:11:14,502 --> 00:11:16,182 Speaker 2: and Musk posted about that. 233 00:11:16,422 --> 00:11:18,502 Speaker 1: I can see why your hair is a little bit 234 00:11:18,542 --> 00:11:19,982 Speaker 1: on fire. I've missed all of this. 235 00:11:20,302 --> 00:11:22,742 Speaker 2: I know. So my hair is smoldering because although I 236 00:11:22,782 --> 00:11:27,062 Speaker 2: don't live there, and I know that, it demonstrates something 237 00:11:27,142 --> 00:11:29,742 Speaker 2: quite profound I think, which is how quickly an ideology 238 00:11:29,742 --> 00:11:32,022 Speaker 2: can take hold, and how one person, not even an 239 00:11:32,022 --> 00:11:35,782 Speaker 2: elected person, by the way, can take control of an 240 00:11:35,902 --> 00:11:37,822 Speaker 2: entire nation just by working on the weekend. 241 00:11:37,902 --> 00:11:41,261 Speaker 4: Should I throw some water on my hair, friends, I no, I. 242 00:11:41,182 --> 00:11:42,702 Speaker 3: Think it needs to keep flaming. 243 00:11:42,822 --> 00:11:43,622 Speaker 1: Let it burn. Baby. 244 00:11:44,742 --> 00:11:48,262 Speaker 3: To me, this is bigger than us politics. This is 245 00:11:48,302 --> 00:11:52,182 Speaker 3: about capitalism at its logical conclusion. This is about capitalism 246 00:11:52,702 --> 00:11:57,342 Speaker 3: and a businessman getting his fingers in every single pie. 247 00:11:57,782 --> 00:12:01,262 Speaker 1: And by that you mean Trump and now Eline now and. 248 00:12:01,182 --> 00:12:04,262 Speaker 3: Now Elon, so Elon Musk is not getting a paycheck 249 00:12:04,302 --> 00:12:07,942 Speaker 3: from the government. So the big question therefore becomes, why 250 00:12:07,942 --> 00:12:10,342 Speaker 3: would Elon do all of this work then? And the 251 00:12:10,382 --> 00:12:14,222 Speaker 3: answer is so obvious, and that's that it's power to 252 00:12:14,382 --> 00:12:17,862 Speaker 3: enrich himself, to enrich himself literally and figuratively. 253 00:12:17,342 --> 00:12:19,982 Speaker 1: But quite literally. When he's just done that moving it 254 00:12:20,022 --> 00:12:22,542 Speaker 1: all over to X, that's enriched the value of X 255 00:12:23,222 --> 00:12:25,702 Speaker 1: by billions and billions of dollars. Yeah. 256 00:12:25,902 --> 00:12:28,342 Speaker 3: And the first thing I thought with this doge thing, 257 00:12:28,342 --> 00:12:31,702 Speaker 3: I had an argument with a friend who was like, well, efficiency. 258 00:12:32,062 --> 00:12:35,902 Speaker 3: He was saying, governments, you know, notoriously can be slow, 259 00:12:35,982 --> 00:12:38,142 Speaker 3: they can be bureaucratical. Maybe there are too many people 260 00:12:38,222 --> 00:12:38,862 Speaker 3: that are employed. 261 00:12:39,062 --> 00:12:40,182 Speaker 4: We've all watched Utopia. 262 00:12:40,342 --> 00:12:43,422 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I argued with him and said, the point 263 00:12:43,702 --> 00:12:47,662 Speaker 3: of a government is not to be at the whim 264 00:12:47,782 --> 00:12:51,462 Speaker 3: of like market outcomes. Not everything is about making money. 265 00:12:52,022 --> 00:12:56,342 Speaker 3: Efficiency is one thing. Another is to have the most 266 00:12:56,822 --> 00:12:59,942 Speaker 3: capitalist businessman in the entire world go and treat an 267 00:13:00,062 --> 00:13:03,822 Speaker 3: education department like it's a business, which it isn't. You 268 00:13:03,902 --> 00:13:07,702 Speaker 3: know what doesn't make sense to a billionaire is foreign aid, Like, 269 00:13:07,902 --> 00:13:09,862 Speaker 3: of course he's going to look at it and go, well, 270 00:13:09,862 --> 00:13:11,822 Speaker 3: this is a waste of money in it for us. Yeah, 271 00:13:11,982 --> 00:13:13,662 Speaker 3: it might kill a bunch of people when they're not 272 00:13:13,702 --> 00:13:16,062 Speaker 3: being fed anymore, and you might have an entire public 273 00:13:16,142 --> 00:13:19,142 Speaker 3: education system fall apart, but you're going to save some money. 274 00:13:19,502 --> 00:13:21,382 Speaker 3: And so to me, it's like this was the last 275 00:13:21,502 --> 00:13:25,781 Speaker 3: vestiges of the US that were untouched by capitalism. 276 00:13:26,142 --> 00:13:28,622 Speaker 1: I know what you're saying, but I think that the 277 00:13:28,742 --> 00:13:31,862 Speaker 1: part in the middle of that is that the money 278 00:13:31,862 --> 00:13:36,542 Speaker 1: that runs governments and the salaries that pay government employees 279 00:13:36,622 --> 00:13:41,262 Speaker 1: come from tax payers. Yes, so taxpayers dollars are being spent, 280 00:13:41,502 --> 00:13:45,662 Speaker 1: and every government has different priorities for how they spend 281 00:13:45,662 --> 00:13:50,822 Speaker 1: that money and different priorities for what outcomes they're looking for. Right, Yeah, 282 00:13:50,862 --> 00:13:55,022 Speaker 1: So one might be further towards the dial of compassion, 283 00:13:55,102 --> 00:13:58,182 Speaker 1: one might be further towards the dial of drama. You know, 284 00:13:58,222 --> 00:14:01,182 Speaker 1: there's a million different factors. But I think that the 285 00:14:01,262 --> 00:14:06,942 Speaker 1: idea of government being bloated and not running efficiently, that's 286 00:14:07,022 --> 00:14:09,822 Speaker 1: not a terrible thing to be against. You know, Uton 287 00:14:09,822 --> 00:14:13,382 Speaker 1: has talked about that's something that he's determined to do. 288 00:14:14,062 --> 00:14:16,142 Speaker 1: He wants to make that one of his platforms. And 289 00:14:16,182 --> 00:14:19,222 Speaker 1: as Whole says, that's actually pretty populist. Most people agree 290 00:14:19,262 --> 00:14:21,582 Speaker 1: that governments are bloate. 291 00:14:21,662 --> 00:14:28,702 Speaker 3: But governments are held often to certain ethics and rules. 292 00:14:28,982 --> 00:14:31,182 Speaker 3: There's an idea behind it of why it was established 293 00:14:31,222 --> 00:14:32,662 Speaker 3: in the first place. So, for example, a lot of 294 00:14:32,662 --> 00:14:35,542 Speaker 3: these departments like JFK set them up and ever since, 295 00:14:35,582 --> 00:14:37,502 Speaker 3: whether it's Republican or a Democrat, they go. There are 296 00:14:37,542 --> 00:14:40,182 Speaker 3: certain ethics that guide our decision to fund this department 297 00:14:40,622 --> 00:14:43,662 Speaker 3: to have these outcomes. But then when someone comes in 298 00:14:44,062 --> 00:14:46,902 Speaker 3: who is devoid of ethics and just kind of goes 299 00:14:47,662 --> 00:14:50,702 Speaker 3: well market wise, this doesn't really make sense. I mean, 300 00:14:50,782 --> 00:14:52,542 Speaker 3: this is a very dystopian outcome. 301 00:14:52,582 --> 00:14:55,102 Speaker 2: I think I agree with you Mia that you know anytime, 302 00:14:55,142 --> 00:14:57,902 Speaker 2: and apparently particularly in America, I think you know way 303 00:14:57,902 --> 00:15:00,302 Speaker 2: worse than it. Anytime you have to touch a government department. 304 00:15:00,342 --> 00:15:04,542 Speaker 2: It can sometimes feel very frustrating about inefficiencies, particularly around 305 00:15:04,542 --> 00:15:07,022 Speaker 2: technology and things. So I get all that, but what 306 00:15:07,342 --> 00:15:10,302 Speaker 2: seems to be very worrying here is really the efficiency 307 00:15:10,342 --> 00:15:12,422 Speaker 2: thing seems to be a bit of a smoke screen, 308 00:15:12,902 --> 00:15:16,902 Speaker 2: because it's also about clearing out an element of employees 309 00:15:16,942 --> 00:15:19,142 Speaker 2: in the government who are not on the Trump train 310 00:15:19,222 --> 00:15:21,942 Speaker 2: or the MAGA train or the Elon train. Although in 311 00:15:21,982 --> 00:15:25,262 Speaker 2: a way that might also make sense theoretically because you're like, well, sure, 312 00:15:25,302 --> 00:15:27,262 Speaker 2: you come into power and you start going. You know, 313 00:15:27,302 --> 00:15:29,382 Speaker 2: I'm going to make changes to education and transport and stuff. 314 00:15:29,382 --> 00:15:32,262 Speaker 2: That's what I was elected for. But historically, and also 315 00:15:32,262 --> 00:15:34,262 Speaker 2: because of the nature of how quickly governments turn over, 316 00:15:34,702 --> 00:15:37,622 Speaker 2: the boss in charge of trains doesn't really need to 317 00:15:37,622 --> 00:15:40,302 Speaker 2: be a Trump person, right, or a Biden person or 318 00:15:40,382 --> 00:15:42,542 Speaker 2: a Greens person or a Liberal person or whatever. He 319 00:15:42,742 --> 00:15:45,502 Speaker 2: or she just needs to know how to run trains. 320 00:15:45,742 --> 00:15:48,702 Speaker 2: And this seems to be very much a kind of 321 00:15:48,902 --> 00:15:51,462 Speaker 2: let's clear everybody out and put our agenda in, and 322 00:15:51,542 --> 00:15:54,102 Speaker 2: it just feels very creepy. 323 00:15:54,742 --> 00:15:58,062 Speaker 1: After the break. There are two types of friend, which 324 00:15:58,102 --> 00:16:01,942 Speaker 1: one are you plus our grammy's debrief and an influencer drama? 325 00:16:06,142 --> 00:16:08,022 Speaker 1: Now that is what kind of friend are you? Are 326 00:16:08,022 --> 00:16:11,542 Speaker 1: you a feedback friend or a cheerleader friend. Last week 327 00:16:11,582 --> 00:16:15,102 Speaker 1: we brought you the syndrome of micro pettiness, which became 328 00:16:15,142 --> 00:16:19,502 Speaker 1: a viral phenomenon thanks to us. This week we're going 329 00:16:19,582 --> 00:16:22,942 Speaker 1: to talk about the two types of friend feedback friends 330 00:16:23,022 --> 00:16:27,982 Speaker 1: or cheerleader friends. And this distinction has come from Holly Wainwright. 331 00:16:28,022 --> 00:16:31,062 Speaker 1: She did an interview on her other podcast mid this 332 00:16:31,142 --> 00:16:34,062 Speaker 1: week with Amanda Keller and a woman called Anita McGregor, 333 00:16:34,062 --> 00:16:38,582 Speaker 1: who is Amanda's best friend. She's also a forensic psychologist. Now, 334 00:16:38,582 --> 00:16:41,222 Speaker 1: Amanda and Anita have been friends for many, many years, 335 00:16:41,382 --> 00:16:44,862 Speaker 1: and in the conversation with them both, which is about friendship, 336 00:16:45,582 --> 00:16:48,942 Speaker 1: holl asks them about whether good friends are the people 337 00:16:48,982 --> 00:16:51,742 Speaker 1: who call each other out or if a good friend 338 00:16:51,782 --> 00:16:54,782 Speaker 1: is actually just a supportive rock no matter what. And 339 00:16:54,822 --> 00:16:58,262 Speaker 1: here's how Amanda's friend Anita responds, I think. 340 00:16:58,102 --> 00:17:01,142 Speaker 5: It depends on the friendship. Like you and I have 341 00:17:01,222 --> 00:17:04,782 Speaker 5: had that conversation that you know, if I looked really 342 00:17:04,942 --> 00:17:07,702 Speaker 5: terrible in an outfit, you wouldn't tell me that. I 343 00:17:07,702 --> 00:17:10,422 Speaker 5: would never tell you the never to even though I'd 344 00:17:10,422 --> 00:17:13,342 Speaker 5: want to hear it, Like I'm really big on feedback, 345 00:17:13,861 --> 00:17:17,462 Speaker 5: and so I doubt that that would make you feel uncomfortable, 346 00:17:17,502 --> 00:17:20,061 Speaker 5: even though I'd like to hear it. And so, and 347 00:17:20,101 --> 00:17:22,262 Speaker 5: I recognize that you are sensitive, and. 348 00:17:22,182 --> 00:17:25,702 Speaker 6: So are all my outfits terrible. It's all I've heard 349 00:17:25,702 --> 00:17:26,861 Speaker 6: in this entire conversation. 350 00:17:27,901 --> 00:17:30,902 Speaker 1: She's been meaning to talk to you about you. We've 351 00:17:30,901 --> 00:17:31,181 Speaker 1: had this. 352 00:17:31,302 --> 00:17:33,302 Speaker 6: We actually have had this conversation. I wrote a book 353 00:17:33,302 --> 00:17:35,502 Speaker 6: a number of years ago, and Anita wanted to read 354 00:17:35,542 --> 00:17:36,861 Speaker 6: it and I said, oh, here, it is just thinking. 355 00:17:36,861 --> 00:17:38,942 Speaker 6: I'm just passing it over and she said, how would 356 00:17:38,942 --> 00:17:42,341 Speaker 6: you How do you take feedback? I went, feedback? 357 00:17:43,542 --> 00:17:46,181 Speaker 1: I love that so much. It got us thinking about 358 00:17:46,262 --> 00:17:50,661 Speaker 1: friendship and whether we're the feedback friend or the cheerleader friend, 359 00:17:50,742 --> 00:17:53,502 Speaker 1: but also what we like from our friends, because I 360 00:17:53,542 --> 00:17:57,382 Speaker 1: think perhaps with some friends and in some instances, you're 361 00:17:57,462 --> 00:18:00,861 Speaker 1: the feedback friend and in others you're the cheerleader friend. Jesse, 362 00:18:00,942 --> 00:18:02,942 Speaker 1: would you like some feedback from me about the kind 363 00:18:02,942 --> 00:18:03,861 Speaker 1: of friend I think you are? 364 00:18:04,182 --> 00:18:04,462 Speaker 3: Please? 365 00:18:05,341 --> 00:18:08,461 Speaker 1: I think you would love to be the feedback friend, 366 00:18:09,101 --> 00:18:14,942 Speaker 1: but you're too intimidated. Week Yes, you're too weak, and 367 00:18:14,982 --> 00:18:17,821 Speaker 1: so you are the cheerleading friend, but you don't mean it. 368 00:18:18,101 --> 00:18:22,061 Speaker 3: Can I ask you something? Yesterday? You said something in 369 00:18:22,101 --> 00:18:25,821 Speaker 3: a conversation and I thought, I don't think Maya realizes 370 00:18:25,821 --> 00:18:27,821 Speaker 3: how her tone came across in that, and it crossed 371 00:18:27,821 --> 00:18:31,421 Speaker 3: my mind. I go, do I tell Mia, Yes, as Maya, 372 00:18:31,542 --> 00:18:33,861 Speaker 3: And this is true about your life, Maya. You walk 373 00:18:33,901 --> 00:18:37,182 Speaker 3: around getting more feedback than anyone I know, because you're 374 00:18:37,182 --> 00:18:40,542 Speaker 3: a business owner, because of your family, because of social media, 375 00:18:40,621 --> 00:18:43,462 Speaker 3: because of your personality. I couldn't handle all the amount 376 00:18:43,462 --> 00:18:44,102 Speaker 3: of feedback that. 377 00:18:44,101 --> 00:18:46,101 Speaker 1: You but I do and I don't like. I do 378 00:18:46,222 --> 00:18:49,061 Speaker 1: get a lot of feedback, but there are also a 379 00:18:49,101 --> 00:18:50,701 Speaker 1: lot of people who are too scared to give me 380 00:18:50,742 --> 00:18:52,701 Speaker 1: feedback because I don't know they work for me. 381 00:18:52,901 --> 00:18:55,901 Speaker 3: But also like, who am I? Maybe you made that 382 00:18:56,022 --> 00:18:59,141 Speaker 3: choice to use that tone, and I just thought, Oh, 383 00:18:59,462 --> 00:19:01,061 Speaker 3: should I say something. 384 00:19:00,982 --> 00:19:01,661 Speaker 1: I love that? 385 00:19:01,702 --> 00:19:01,982 Speaker 6: Really? 386 00:19:02,341 --> 00:19:05,222 Speaker 1: Yes? Are you kidding me? Okay? I think you're ever known? 387 00:19:06,502 --> 00:19:10,101 Speaker 1: Have you ever known me to not want feedb Collie 388 00:19:10,182 --> 00:19:14,101 Speaker 1: hates feedback too, but I I love it. I don't 389 00:19:14,141 --> 00:19:18,542 Speaker 1: know why. I find friends who give me feedback are 390 00:19:18,621 --> 00:19:22,262 Speaker 1: the ones who I feel safest with because I try them. 391 00:19:22,581 --> 00:19:26,022 Speaker 3: See, my thing is always I can be the feedback 392 00:19:26,061 --> 00:19:28,581 Speaker 3: friend if I feel like I have any expertise in 393 00:19:28,621 --> 00:19:30,861 Speaker 3: what the person's talking about. So if someone's talking about 394 00:19:30,901 --> 00:19:33,821 Speaker 3: an issue at work and I don't know anything about 395 00:19:33,821 --> 00:19:37,542 Speaker 3: their industry, I will listen and cheerlead. If I have 396 00:19:37,581 --> 00:19:39,901 Speaker 3: a friend I've had this a few times who is 397 00:19:39,942 --> 00:19:42,821 Speaker 3: thinking about writing a book, then I go, I wonder 398 00:19:42,861 --> 00:19:46,821 Speaker 3: if they want me to give them some advice, not 399 00:19:46,861 --> 00:19:49,381 Speaker 3: because I'm an expert, because I've done it before and 400 00:19:49,422 --> 00:19:52,181 Speaker 3: I've kind of waited to see what they think and 401 00:19:52,222 --> 00:19:54,262 Speaker 3: I've had the same thing where a friend has sent 402 00:19:54,262 --> 00:19:56,621 Speaker 3: a book or whatever and you've gone, do I say 403 00:19:56,661 --> 00:20:00,302 Speaker 3: something about like what I'd picked up on page seventeen 404 00:20:00,502 --> 00:20:00,901 Speaker 3: or whatever. 405 00:20:00,901 --> 00:20:03,222 Speaker 1: I thought that was so interesting that Amanda was saying 406 00:20:03,341 --> 00:20:06,341 Speaker 1: very clearly whole, wasn't she to Anita, It didn't occur 407 00:20:06,462 --> 00:20:08,421 Speaker 1: to me that you give me feedback. I just wanted 408 00:20:08,422 --> 00:20:10,742 Speaker 1: you to say, this is great, you're write me. 409 00:20:10,942 --> 00:20:12,462 Speaker 4: I don't like feedback. I mean I do. 410 00:20:12,542 --> 00:20:15,742 Speaker 2: I like it in some circumstances. But when Amanda described 411 00:20:15,821 --> 00:20:18,221 Speaker 2: she said in this interview, she said, I'm really sensitive, 412 00:20:18,302 --> 00:20:20,741 Speaker 2: and I don't think of myself as a sensitive person, right, 413 00:20:20,782 --> 00:20:21,701 Speaker 2: I think of herself. 414 00:20:21,462 --> 00:20:23,902 Speaker 4: As like storic, practical Blochester. 415 00:20:24,182 --> 00:20:27,302 Speaker 2: But I am very sensitive to feedback, and it's important 416 00:20:27,341 --> 00:20:27,542 Speaker 2: to me. 417 00:20:27,821 --> 00:20:28,461 Speaker 1: I think that is. 418 00:20:28,502 --> 00:20:33,022 Speaker 2: Do you think I'm sensitive to feedback in a professional sense, 419 00:20:33,101 --> 00:20:35,941 Speaker 2: like I've had my whole career of being edited. 420 00:20:35,942 --> 00:20:38,861 Speaker 4: And I am very very glad of that. And it 421 00:20:38,942 --> 00:20:39,502 Speaker 4: only makes. 422 00:20:39,341 --> 00:20:40,661 Speaker 1: People because that's a form of feedback. 423 00:20:40,661 --> 00:20:41,581 Speaker 4: He isn't one hundred percent. 424 00:20:41,782 --> 00:20:43,381 Speaker 2: And I wonder if that's a little bit why I 425 00:20:43,422 --> 00:20:45,542 Speaker 2: don't really like feedback in other areas of my life. 426 00:20:45,581 --> 00:20:46,821 Speaker 2: Is I feel like I get enough of. 427 00:20:46,782 --> 00:20:47,622 Speaker 4: It, you know what I mean. 428 00:20:47,901 --> 00:20:50,542 Speaker 2: We get a lot of feedback on this show because 429 00:20:50,581 --> 00:20:52,341 Speaker 2: we're public people and we're in the world, and people 430 00:20:52,341 --> 00:20:53,782 Speaker 2: are say, I don't like the way you said that, 431 00:20:53,861 --> 00:20:55,421 Speaker 2: I don't like you know, you should have said this, 432 00:20:55,621 --> 00:20:56,941 Speaker 2: and I read it and I take it on, and 433 00:20:56,982 --> 00:20:58,461 Speaker 2: so I feel like I get a lot of it. 434 00:20:58,542 --> 00:20:58,661 Speaker 7: Right. 435 00:20:59,422 --> 00:21:02,101 Speaker 2: I don't want feedback from my friends, like if I 436 00:21:02,182 --> 00:21:04,661 Speaker 2: specifically ask for it, like what should I do in 437 00:21:04,661 --> 00:21:06,901 Speaker 2: this situation or me? Or what bag should I buy? 438 00:21:07,302 --> 00:21:08,821 Speaker 2: Or what do you think I should do about this? 439 00:21:08,982 --> 00:21:11,302 Speaker 2: Then yes, and I have a wise counsel that I 440 00:21:11,302 --> 00:21:14,022 Speaker 2: will ask those things to you too, obviously in that council, 441 00:21:14,061 --> 00:21:14,502 Speaker 2: You're right. 442 00:21:14,381 --> 00:21:17,421 Speaker 1: Because that I do not like driving solicited feedback. I 443 00:21:17,502 --> 00:21:22,462 Speaker 1: agree you. No, I can confirm. I think that feedback, 444 00:21:22,861 --> 00:21:27,181 Speaker 1: if it's unsolicited, becomes advice. An advice that's not asked 445 00:21:27,262 --> 00:21:31,861 Speaker 1: for can feel like pressure, and I think that that's 446 00:21:31,901 --> 00:21:34,621 Speaker 1: the worst thing you can do in a friendship. It 447 00:21:34,661 --> 00:21:38,502 Speaker 1: can really damage a friendship, is to give unsolicited advice. 448 00:21:38,982 --> 00:21:42,262 Speaker 1: Feedback to me is different because advice is like, here's 449 00:21:42,302 --> 00:21:46,421 Speaker 1: what I think you should do. Feedback to me is 450 00:21:46,661 --> 00:21:49,021 Speaker 1: you might like what you just said Jessie, I clearly 451 00:21:49,101 --> 00:21:50,701 Speaker 1: wasn't aware, because I don't think I was trying to 452 00:21:50,702 --> 00:21:52,061 Speaker 1: be a bitch. I'm never trying to be a bitch. 453 00:21:52,101 --> 00:21:55,221 Speaker 1: But feedback is, hey, you might not realize how that 454 00:21:55,262 --> 00:21:58,302 Speaker 1: came across. When you said that, I'd be like, oh, 455 00:21:58,302 --> 00:21:59,421 Speaker 1: thank you for telling me that. 456 00:21:59,702 --> 00:22:01,462 Speaker 3: So we have a group chat and there's like fourteen 457 00:22:01,502 --> 00:22:03,622 Speaker 3: of a cent it and a friend recently put in 458 00:22:03,661 --> 00:22:06,382 Speaker 3: an issue that she was having at work, right and 459 00:22:06,702 --> 00:22:09,061 Speaker 3: it was a very very specific issue, and everyone jumped 460 00:22:09,101 --> 00:22:10,982 Speaker 3: in it So funny because everyone's, you know, so busy 461 00:22:10,982 --> 00:22:12,702 Speaker 3: with their jobs and it's two o'clock on a Tuesday, 462 00:22:12,742 --> 00:22:15,341 Speaker 3: and all fourteen people jumped in there and they were like, 463 00:22:15,742 --> 00:22:18,061 Speaker 3: you go, go that is not their take it to 464 00:22:18,101 --> 00:22:22,181 Speaker 3: the union. You call the Prime Minister. He's got to 465 00:22:22,182 --> 00:22:25,181 Speaker 3: hear about Like, we just escalated and escalated and escalated. 466 00:22:25,742 --> 00:22:28,502 Speaker 3: If that had been a situation, yes, and a lot 467 00:22:28,542 --> 00:22:30,981 Speaker 3: of yeasing, a lot of hearts. I'm pretty sure there 468 00:22:31,061 --> 00:22:35,022 Speaker 3: was a strong arm like lots of emojis. Maybe there 469 00:22:35,061 --> 00:22:37,181 Speaker 3: had been and not in the situation, but you know, 470 00:22:37,341 --> 00:22:39,061 Speaker 3: maybe there was someone who kind of went, well, I 471 00:22:39,061 --> 00:22:41,061 Speaker 3: can see the bosses point of that's not what she 472 00:22:41,101 --> 00:22:43,142 Speaker 3: was looking for. She was looking for the bosses' point 473 00:22:43,141 --> 00:22:46,981 Speaker 3: of view. She needed fourteen women to go they don't 474 00:22:47,262 --> 00:22:50,302 Speaker 3: value you. Yeah, that's what we do. And that's when 475 00:22:50,381 --> 00:22:53,222 Speaker 3: you walk into a restaurant or drinks or cocktails, there's 476 00:22:53,262 --> 00:22:55,742 Speaker 3: a gaggle of women and you'll often hear a shriek, 477 00:22:56,222 --> 00:22:59,341 Speaker 3: and that shriek is a cheerleading friends because they're like, 478 00:22:59,502 --> 00:23:02,302 Speaker 3: there's just an energy that women get. And we've talked 479 00:23:02,341 --> 00:23:05,182 Speaker 3: about this before that the women Cops shared a lot. 480 00:23:05,381 --> 00:23:07,262 Speaker 3: You cop shpped just because you're a woman in the world, 481 00:23:07,381 --> 00:23:10,262 Speaker 3: there are very few spaces where people'll just cheer you 482 00:23:10,302 --> 00:23:12,341 Speaker 3: on for being you. And I think that's the beauty 483 00:23:12,341 --> 00:23:15,101 Speaker 3: of having like a close knit female group. 484 00:23:15,141 --> 00:23:17,142 Speaker 1: We're in a group, Holly and I with a friend 485 00:23:17,182 --> 00:23:19,421 Speaker 1: who's going through breast cancer treatment at the moment, and 486 00:23:19,462 --> 00:23:22,061 Speaker 1: there's so many random people from her life in that group, 487 00:23:22,101 --> 00:23:25,262 Speaker 1: everyone from I think her mother to just all different 488 00:23:25,302 --> 00:23:28,221 Speaker 1: people from her life. And it's very funny because the 489 00:23:28,341 --> 00:23:30,581 Speaker 1: pure point, there's two points of that. One is for 490 00:23:30,621 --> 00:23:32,662 Speaker 1: her to be able to convey information to us as 491 00:23:32,661 --> 00:23:35,861 Speaker 1: a group instead of having eight million conversations. But then 492 00:23:35,901 --> 00:23:38,941 Speaker 1: it's pure purpose for us is to be able to 493 00:23:38,942 --> 00:23:42,101 Speaker 1: be cheerleaders. Yeah, and it might be you go girl. 494 00:23:42,262 --> 00:23:44,742 Speaker 1: This week it was funny. Everyone just posted a funny 495 00:23:44,782 --> 00:23:48,462 Speaker 1: picture of where they were just to amuse her or 496 00:23:48,502 --> 00:23:52,461 Speaker 1: each other because she'd started radiation. And that is a 497 00:23:52,502 --> 00:23:55,621 Speaker 1: classic case. But then it's really funny. I was in 498 00:23:55,661 --> 00:23:59,022 Speaker 1: a work group chat as well where someone asked for 499 00:23:59,061 --> 00:24:02,781 Speaker 1: feedback in a channel of thirty one people no, and 500 00:24:02,821 --> 00:24:03,381 Speaker 1: it was like. 501 00:24:03,381 --> 00:24:04,661 Speaker 4: And I think me is really good at this. 502 00:24:04,742 --> 00:24:06,942 Speaker 2: And one of the things I asked man for feedback 503 00:24:06,982 --> 00:24:09,701 Speaker 2: on sometimes is how to give like another. So a 504 00:24:09,782 --> 00:24:13,262 Speaker 2: friend is making terrible decision after terrible decision, whether it's 505 00:24:13,262 --> 00:24:15,982 Speaker 2: about relationship or something in their lifestyle or their job 506 00:24:16,101 --> 00:24:17,781 Speaker 2: or whatever, and you can see the pattern because you've 507 00:24:17,821 --> 00:24:21,581 Speaker 2: been around them a long time as a cheerleader friend, right, 508 00:24:21,702 --> 00:24:24,542 Speaker 2: I see my job as being always you're the place 509 00:24:24,542 --> 00:24:27,182 Speaker 2: where they fall like and that's okay, that's your role, 510 00:24:27,222 --> 00:24:29,701 Speaker 2: and you always go it's okay, babe, it'll be fine, 511 00:24:29,942 --> 00:24:30,742 Speaker 2: we'll work it out. 512 00:24:31,661 --> 00:24:32,141 Speaker 1: Feedback. 513 00:24:32,182 --> 00:24:34,422 Speaker 2: Friend is the one who's going to do the call out, right, 514 00:24:34,861 --> 00:24:36,382 Speaker 2: And is it possible. 515 00:24:35,982 --> 00:24:37,302 Speaker 4: To be both those people at once? 516 00:24:37,542 --> 00:24:40,462 Speaker 1: It is because you've just got to read not what 517 00:24:40,542 --> 00:24:43,222 Speaker 1: you think needs to happen, but what your friend needs 518 00:24:43,222 --> 00:24:45,302 Speaker 1: from you in that moment, which is what Jesse did 519 00:24:45,302 --> 00:24:47,861 Speaker 1: with the person who just needed advice. I know that 520 00:24:47,901 --> 00:24:51,861 Speaker 1: when I'm often in an elevated state of outrage or 521 00:24:51,861 --> 00:24:55,661 Speaker 1: indignation or feeling very hurt about something, what I need, 522 00:24:55,982 --> 00:24:58,742 Speaker 1: I'll go to the person, or I'll keep going until 523 00:24:58,782 --> 00:25:01,661 Speaker 1: I find the person who will match my same level 524 00:25:02,101 --> 00:25:08,702 Speaker 1: of indignation, outrage, devastation, disappointment, whatever, not someone who will 525 00:25:08,742 --> 00:25:10,702 Speaker 1: try to give me a d different point of view. 526 00:25:11,341 --> 00:25:13,861 Speaker 1: That could be what I would need. If I'm genuinely 527 00:25:13,901 --> 00:25:16,741 Speaker 1: puzzled about something like you know, I might say how 528 00:25:16,782 --> 00:25:19,182 Speaker 1: should I handle this? Or did I come across really 529 00:25:19,222 --> 00:25:23,101 Speaker 1: badly in that conversation? But my worst trait is that 530 00:25:23,542 --> 00:25:27,902 Speaker 1: I give too much unsolicited advice. Sometimes you just need 531 00:25:27,942 --> 00:25:31,262 Speaker 1: to be let them queen, let them find the queen 532 00:25:31,462 --> 00:25:34,581 Speaker 1: of you both laughing, I'm the queen of unsolicited advice 533 00:25:34,621 --> 00:25:38,141 Speaker 1: and unsolicited feedback, particularly about what you both are wearing. Also, 534 00:25:38,422 --> 00:25:40,502 Speaker 1: But that's but that's because. 535 00:25:41,341 --> 00:25:43,901 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I'm a bad person, you know, I 536 00:25:43,942 --> 00:25:46,181 Speaker 3: reckon that. The takeaway here too, is that if you 537 00:25:46,302 --> 00:25:50,661 Speaker 3: have a friend who is never in any context your cheerleader. 538 00:25:50,982 --> 00:25:53,981 Speaker 3: Then that's a big red flag. Yeah, it's like you 539 00:25:53,982 --> 00:25:56,662 Speaker 3: can be both. Absolutely, you can be a full cheerleader. 540 00:25:56,782 --> 00:25:57,262 Speaker 3: You can't be a. 541 00:25:57,262 --> 00:26:00,142 Speaker 1: Fool because I'm also in my defense, I'm a big cheerleader. 542 00:26:00,141 --> 00:26:02,302 Speaker 3: You're a massive cheerleader. That's why you get away with it. 543 00:26:02,422 --> 00:26:04,222 Speaker 4: Okay, good After the. 544 00:26:04,141 --> 00:26:08,022 Speaker 3: Break, Australia's biggest influencer drama just got a whole lot messier. 545 00:26:08,262 --> 00:26:10,502 Speaker 3: It's our very juicy all. 546 00:26:10,302 --> 00:26:14,421 Speaker 2: Or Nothing one unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes 547 00:26:14,462 --> 00:26:18,381 Speaker 2: every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. 548 00:26:18,702 --> 00:26:20,302 Speaker 4: Follow the link in the show notes. 549 00:26:20,022 --> 00:26:22,302 Speaker 2: To get us in your ears five days a week. 550 00:26:22,581 --> 00:26:29,582 Speaker 2: And a huge thank you to all our current subscribers. 551 00:26:34,462 --> 00:26:37,302 Speaker 3: Friends, this segment isn't all or nothing. You either know 552 00:26:37,422 --> 00:26:40,781 Speaker 3: everything about Anna Paul's very bad week, you're deep on 553 00:26:40,861 --> 00:26:44,861 Speaker 3: Mikayla Tester's TikTok, and yeah, you have some feelings about Attis. 554 00:26:45,182 --> 00:26:46,181 Speaker 3: I think that's how you say it. 555 00:26:46,702 --> 00:26:49,701 Speaker 4: Did any of those words make sense to you, Mia Friedman. 556 00:26:49,782 --> 00:26:52,542 Speaker 1: I vaguely know who Anna Paul is. Yeah, I think 557 00:26:52,581 --> 00:26:55,302 Speaker 1: she's an influencer. Does she have an only fans account? 558 00:26:55,422 --> 00:26:57,742 Speaker 3: She's one of the biggest Only Fans creators in the country. 559 00:26:57,782 --> 00:26:59,782 Speaker 1: I tried to get her to come on no filter. 560 00:27:00,061 --> 00:27:02,821 Speaker 1: She's impossible to reach. I didn't even say no, she 561 00:27:02,901 --> 00:27:04,982 Speaker 1: just didn't reply for a year. 562 00:27:05,381 --> 00:27:08,061 Speaker 3: Very famous. If you are deep in this rabbit hole, 563 00:27:08,101 --> 00:27:10,701 Speaker 3: you also suddenly know the ins and outs of Australian 564 00:27:10,702 --> 00:27:11,421 Speaker 3: lottery laws. 565 00:27:11,621 --> 00:27:14,141 Speaker 2: Okay, Can I just ask one question about the fame 566 00:27:14,341 --> 00:27:16,462 Speaker 2: we have discussed before? How one of the things about 567 00:27:16,462 --> 00:27:19,222 Speaker 2: our fragmented world? As you say, she's very, very famous. 568 00:27:19,462 --> 00:27:21,341 Speaker 2: Like could she walk down the street in the middle 569 00:27:21,381 --> 00:27:22,422 Speaker 2: of Sydney. 570 00:27:22,061 --> 00:27:25,421 Speaker 3: She would be swarmed, Right, your daughter Holly would probably 571 00:27:25,621 --> 00:27:28,102 Speaker 3: if you cornered her, she would go yeah, I noel, Right, 572 00:27:28,182 --> 00:27:28,422 Speaker 3: is she. 573 00:27:28,462 --> 00:27:30,782 Speaker 1: Famous with who's who's her demographic? 574 00:27:30,901 --> 00:27:32,061 Speaker 3: I would say young people? 575 00:27:32,302 --> 00:27:34,382 Speaker 1: And what she famous for like on. 576 00:27:34,222 --> 00:27:36,262 Speaker 3: TikTok At this moment, I'd say she has about six 577 00:27:36,262 --> 00:27:40,341 Speaker 3: and a half million followers on Instagram probably similar and 578 00:27:40,381 --> 00:27:42,221 Speaker 3: she is one of the biggest only Fans creator. 579 00:27:42,262 --> 00:27:44,581 Speaker 1: What does she post about? Because only fans I understand 580 00:27:44,581 --> 00:27:45,821 Speaker 1: to be mostly sex. 581 00:27:45,702 --> 00:27:50,101 Speaker 3: Sexually content, but she's also very like wholesome, Like she 582 00:27:50,182 --> 00:27:51,942 Speaker 3: posts really normal stuff. I think one of her most 583 00:27:52,022 --> 00:27:54,061 Speaker 3: viral videos is her doing like a dance. 584 00:27:54,381 --> 00:27:58,942 Speaker 2: So she's got different brands. 585 00:27:58,302 --> 00:28:01,061 Speaker 3: Brand as well for like younger women. 586 00:28:01,302 --> 00:28:04,101 Speaker 1: So when you say younger, do you mean like women 587 00:28:04,141 --> 00:28:07,141 Speaker 1: in their twenties or like I would say, like sixteen year. 588 00:28:07,022 --> 00:28:09,462 Speaker 3: Olds, I would say like early twenties, like young. 589 00:28:09,901 --> 00:28:13,461 Speaker 1: Right, And I like her because she's pretty. Is she 590 00:28:13,502 --> 00:28:14,462 Speaker 1: financially successful? 591 00:28:14,861 --> 00:28:17,941 Speaker 3: So her brand is kind and relatable? 592 00:28:18,141 --> 00:28:20,782 Speaker 4: Okay, okay, got it? That was her number one crime. 593 00:28:24,502 --> 00:28:25,461 Speaker 1: Does she sell anything? 594 00:28:25,462 --> 00:28:27,262 Speaker 4: Well, that's your brand. You'll also in trouble. 595 00:28:27,341 --> 00:28:29,821 Speaker 3: So obviously, obviously the only fans is her big thing. 596 00:28:29,861 --> 00:28:31,901 Speaker 3: If you think of it like a funnel, then the 597 00:28:31,942 --> 00:28:34,142 Speaker 3: big bit is like she gets the TikTok, she gets 598 00:28:34,222 --> 00:28:36,622 Speaker 3: Instagram audience, and then ideally people are going to pay 599 00:28:36,621 --> 00:28:38,742 Speaker 3: for her only fans. And in the last week she's 600 00:28:38,742 --> 00:28:41,422 Speaker 3: lost one million followers on TikTok, so that's a big deal. 601 00:28:42,702 --> 00:28:45,542 Speaker 3: You two are like most in Australia. If you don't 602 00:28:45,542 --> 00:28:48,262 Speaker 3: know who Anna, Mikayla or an Attus is, you don't 603 00:28:48,262 --> 00:28:50,222 Speaker 3: know what platform they live in, and you certainly don't 604 00:28:50,222 --> 00:28:52,862 Speaker 3: have time to watch a nine minute video full of allegations, 605 00:28:52,902 --> 00:28:55,262 Speaker 3: a bunch of which we cannot today legally. 606 00:28:55,302 --> 00:28:57,342 Speaker 1: Air I tried to read it in When we were 607 00:28:57,342 --> 00:29:00,142 Speaker 1: researching this, I tried to read a story about it 608 00:29:00,182 --> 00:29:02,902 Speaker 1: that was on Mamma Mia Whole. I think you did too. Also, 609 00:29:03,382 --> 00:29:04,542 Speaker 1: I'm not much the wiser. 610 00:29:04,942 --> 00:29:08,582 Speaker 3: It's really hard because it's like you need to understand 611 00:29:08,622 --> 00:29:10,701 Speaker 3: the characters, the background. But I'm going to do my 612 00:29:10,782 --> 00:29:11,342 Speaker 3: very very best. 613 00:29:11,422 --> 00:29:11,701 Speaker 1: Thank you. 614 00:29:11,782 --> 00:29:14,862 Speaker 3: So okay, because like everything this is, it's really a 615 00:29:14,862 --> 00:29:18,661 Speaker 3: philosophical discussion about ideas. We're just using these people as pawns. 616 00:29:19,222 --> 00:29:22,262 Speaker 3: Let's start with Anna Paul. Okay, So we talked about 617 00:29:22,262 --> 00:29:25,302 Speaker 3: the fact that her brand is kindness, relatable, big, big stuff. 618 00:29:25,942 --> 00:29:29,262 Speaker 3: Then over on the other side we have Michayla. Mikayla 619 00:29:29,342 --> 00:29:32,262 Speaker 3: and Anna Paul been very good friends since they were fifteen. 620 00:29:32,502 --> 00:29:35,862 Speaker 3: For a few years, Mikayla dates Attis. Who is Attis? 621 00:29:36,022 --> 00:29:40,421 Speaker 3: Great question, Anna Paul's brother, Okay, Okay, now they break up? 622 00:29:40,502 --> 00:29:41,022 Speaker 4: What does he do? 623 00:29:41,142 --> 00:29:44,022 Speaker 1: No? Sorry, no, no, no, no follow up? 624 00:29:45,222 --> 00:29:45,582 Speaker 4: Okay. 625 00:29:45,622 --> 00:29:49,181 Speaker 3: But Mikayla yep is also very big on only fans, very. 626 00:29:49,022 --> 00:29:51,062 Speaker 1: Big following similar kind of vibes. 627 00:29:50,862 --> 00:29:51,622 Speaker 3: Very similar vibes. 628 00:29:51,622 --> 00:29:51,822 Speaker 1: Okay. 629 00:29:52,702 --> 00:29:55,542 Speaker 3: A little over a week ago, Mikayla posts a story 630 00:29:55,782 --> 00:29:58,342 Speaker 3: on Instagram. Maya, I want you to read what that 631 00:29:58,462 --> 00:30:01,102 Speaker 3: story says, I'm gonna give it to you here. It's 632 00:30:01,102 --> 00:30:02,421 Speaker 3: a bit in bold, please read it. 633 00:30:02,582 --> 00:30:05,501 Speaker 1: If you have to incentivize people to buy your exclusive 634 00:30:05,502 --> 00:30:09,222 Speaker 1: website by running cash giveaways so your underage followers bend 635 00:30:09,222 --> 00:30:12,782 Speaker 1: tend to hopefully win one thousand dollars, you're basically running 636 00:30:12,822 --> 00:30:16,622 Speaker 1: an illegal lottery and taking advantage of children. It's gross. 637 00:30:16,942 --> 00:30:21,302 Speaker 3: So for a portion of the Internet that was explosive, 638 00:30:21,382 --> 00:30:24,862 Speaker 3: I saw that novel, that's fine. I'm lacking context to 639 00:30:25,222 --> 00:30:26,022 Speaker 3: who's doing. 640 00:30:25,822 --> 00:30:28,982 Speaker 1: What, Why? How are we exploding children with a lottery. 641 00:30:29,182 --> 00:30:31,181 Speaker 3: Here's how the children are being exploded with the lottery. 642 00:30:31,262 --> 00:30:34,382 Speaker 3: Everyone immediately knew this was a dig at Anna Paul. 643 00:30:34,782 --> 00:30:36,422 Speaker 3: It was a dig at Annapaul because a few hours 644 00:30:36,462 --> 00:30:38,102 Speaker 3: before she had posted. 645 00:30:37,742 --> 00:30:40,462 Speaker 1: Oh so that's called a subtweet. Subtweet when you don't 646 00:30:40,462 --> 00:30:42,822 Speaker 1: mention someone, but everyone knows what ever talking about. 647 00:30:43,022 --> 00:30:45,782 Speaker 3: Because she had posted a link to her only fans, 648 00:30:45,862 --> 00:30:47,382 Speaker 3: and what she does is she says, come to my 649 00:30:47,422 --> 00:30:52,342 Speaker 3: only fans, I'm giving away money, so subscribe and then 650 00:30:52,582 --> 00:30:54,862 Speaker 3: pay to subscribe. Pay to subscribe, which I think is 651 00:30:54,902 --> 00:30:57,502 Speaker 3: like sixteen bucks or something. Come subscribe to my only fans, 652 00:30:57,542 --> 00:30:59,741 Speaker 3: and then for some lucky fans. I'm going to give 653 00:30:59,742 --> 00:31:01,502 Speaker 3: you five hundred one thousand. I'm just going to give 654 00:31:01,502 --> 00:31:03,502 Speaker 3: you money. Right, you're allowed to do that. I don't 655 00:31:03,502 --> 00:31:05,942 Speaker 3: think you are well. I've gone deep on lottery laws, 656 00:31:05,982 --> 00:31:07,902 Speaker 3: and yeah you can, as long as it's less than 657 00:31:07,902 --> 00:31:10,262 Speaker 3: three thousand dollars. I had to do it. It's like 658 00:31:10,342 --> 00:31:12,142 Speaker 3: people do this all the time, like a version of it, 659 00:31:12,222 --> 00:31:15,702 Speaker 3: like and it's pretty transparent. But anyway, a few days later, 660 00:31:16,022 --> 00:31:18,862 Speaker 3: Mikayla uploads a nine minute video. 661 00:31:19,182 --> 00:31:21,102 Speaker 7: It's way easier to hate me for calling her out 662 00:31:21,102 --> 00:31:23,182 Speaker 7: when she's wrong than accepting that the Anna you guys 663 00:31:23,182 --> 00:31:26,181 Speaker 7: love and idolize so much she never existed. You don't 664 00:31:26,222 --> 00:31:26,582 Speaker 7: know her. 665 00:31:27,262 --> 00:31:28,702 Speaker 1: You don't know her like I know her. 666 00:31:29,102 --> 00:31:31,022 Speaker 7: You have never met her, and if you have, it's 667 00:31:31,062 --> 00:31:34,302 Speaker 7: nothing more than a five second sulfie. These people that 668 00:31:34,342 --> 00:31:36,502 Speaker 7: watch her don't know the Anna that I know. They 669 00:31:36,582 --> 00:31:38,661 Speaker 7: know the other Anna, the one she wears when the 670 00:31:38,702 --> 00:31:42,342 Speaker 7: camera starts rolling. I can't blame the parasocials, because I 671 00:31:42,422 --> 00:31:44,302 Speaker 7: too would do the same for someone that I looked 672 00:31:44,342 --> 00:31:46,742 Speaker 7: up to. But my experience with Anna was a lot 673 00:31:46,742 --> 00:31:49,342 Speaker 7: different to all of you. Mine was a real experience. 674 00:31:49,742 --> 00:31:52,941 Speaker 1: So this is Anna's ex sister in Laura Cent correct. 675 00:31:52,702 --> 00:31:54,822 Speaker 3: Correct, yep. So do you want the headlines from the 676 00:31:54,902 --> 00:31:55,502 Speaker 3: nine minute video? 677 00:31:55,542 --> 00:31:55,742 Speaker 2: Yeah? 678 00:31:55,782 --> 00:31:56,342 Speaker 4: What did she do? 679 00:31:56,582 --> 00:31:56,982 Speaker 2: Okay? 680 00:31:57,062 --> 00:31:58,981 Speaker 4: So what's the Anna that she knows? 681 00:31:59,102 --> 00:31:59,382 Speaker 1: Well? 682 00:31:59,542 --> 00:32:02,461 Speaker 3: Firstly, Anna Paul claims to be very body positive, but 683 00:32:02,502 --> 00:32:05,661 Speaker 3: apparently years ago she was at an event and a 684 00:32:05,702 --> 00:32:07,822 Speaker 3: fan came up and gave her a hug, and this 685 00:32:07,902 --> 00:32:10,582 Speaker 3: fan was plus size and when she walked away and 686 00:32:10,622 --> 00:32:13,302 Speaker 3: a Paul complained to Mikayla, oh, she was so fat 687 00:32:13,342 --> 00:32:13,822 Speaker 3: and sweaty. 688 00:32:14,702 --> 00:32:15,702 Speaker 4: Number one. That's not good. 689 00:32:15,862 --> 00:32:18,542 Speaker 3: It's not good. It's also completely unverified. 690 00:32:18,022 --> 00:32:20,222 Speaker 4: Exactly who knows. Maybe she said it, maybe she didn't. 691 00:32:20,262 --> 00:32:20,462 Speaker 1: Yeah. 692 00:32:20,542 --> 00:32:23,102 Speaker 3: Number two, and this is a big one. Anna Paul 693 00:32:23,222 --> 00:32:25,782 Speaker 3: claims that she grew up broke. It is part of 694 00:32:25,822 --> 00:32:28,981 Speaker 3: her story. It is part of the narrative that she 695 00:32:29,182 --> 00:32:31,822 Speaker 3: sort of sells on Instagram and TikTok that she grew 696 00:32:31,942 --> 00:32:33,982 Speaker 3: up with not a lot as a kid. And now 697 00:32:34,022 --> 00:32:35,582 Speaker 3: the reason she wants to make all this money on 698 00:32:35,582 --> 00:32:38,102 Speaker 3: OnlyFans because now she'd be rolling in it, is that 699 00:32:38,142 --> 00:32:39,902 Speaker 3: she wants to take her parents on holiday, she wants 700 00:32:39,902 --> 00:32:42,982 Speaker 3: to buy them houses, all of that, and Mikayla says, 701 00:32:43,022 --> 00:32:45,262 Speaker 3: you did not grow up broke. You had a house 702 00:32:45,422 --> 00:32:48,502 Speaker 3: on the water with a pool, and you were upper 703 00:32:48,502 --> 00:32:52,382 Speaker 3: middle class, right. And the third thing is this lottery 704 00:32:52,422 --> 00:32:56,502 Speaker 3: claim thing. She just says your Instagram, a lot of 705 00:32:56,542 --> 00:32:59,421 Speaker 3: your content is aimed at young, young, young people. 706 00:32:59,142 --> 00:33:01,302 Speaker 1: Because you can't post sexually explain. You can't even have 707 00:33:01,342 --> 00:33:04,182 Speaker 1: a nipple out on Instagram or on TikTok. 708 00:33:04,502 --> 00:33:07,662 Speaker 3: So we all know that only fans creators are using 709 00:33:07,702 --> 00:33:13,022 Speaker 3: Instagram and TikTok as advertising for their only fans. What 710 00:33:13,142 --> 00:33:16,342 Speaker 3: Mikayla's claiming that Anna Paul is doing is trying to 711 00:33:16,382 --> 00:33:18,662 Speaker 3: attract a bunch of young people and then getting underage 712 00:33:18,661 --> 00:33:21,781 Speaker 3: people to go to only fans. Only fans does have 713 00:33:22,022 --> 00:33:26,942 Speaker 3: very strict guidelines about who can sign up. 714 00:33:27,062 --> 00:33:30,981 Speaker 2: I have another dumb question about this, isn't it probably 715 00:33:31,422 --> 00:33:35,661 Speaker 2: two different follower groups, Like, aren't probably most of Anna 716 00:33:35,702 --> 00:33:40,502 Speaker 2: Paul's Only Fans followers male and probably most of the 717 00:33:40,542 --> 00:33:43,662 Speaker 2: TikTok followers are female. So isn't it that you don't 718 00:33:43,702 --> 00:33:45,302 Speaker 2: necessarily need to cross pollinate. 719 00:33:45,382 --> 00:33:49,022 Speaker 3: You're just capturing all the mask Except Mikayla's claim is 720 00:33:49,022 --> 00:33:51,222 Speaker 3: if you're saying to people in a cost of living crisis, 721 00:33:51,262 --> 00:33:53,942 Speaker 3: I'm going to give away money. Then suddenly you've got 722 00:33:53,942 --> 00:33:57,342 Speaker 3: someone subscribing to your sexually explicit content for sixteen dollars, 723 00:33:57,342 --> 00:34:00,221 Speaker 3: who's a single mother who really just needs a thousand 724 00:34:00,222 --> 00:34:00,941 Speaker 3: bucks on it. 725 00:34:00,982 --> 00:34:04,221 Speaker 1: But that's on her, that's on the person who decides to, 726 00:34:04,422 --> 00:34:08,181 Speaker 1: you know, spend Sea exactly essentially by a lot try ticket. 727 00:34:08,222 --> 00:34:12,422 Speaker 1: And that's not illegal? Is it ethical? If she's channeling 728 00:34:13,022 --> 00:34:16,022 Speaker 1: essentially the people who follow her on these quote mark 729 00:34:16,142 --> 00:34:20,622 Speaker 1: safe platforms or g rated platforms and sending them to. 730 00:34:20,661 --> 00:34:23,262 Speaker 3: Her only fans, what do you think? 731 00:34:23,102 --> 00:34:25,422 Speaker 1: I think there's worse to see on the internet if 732 00:34:25,462 --> 00:34:27,421 Speaker 1: you've got access to a credit card and you can 733 00:34:27,822 --> 00:34:31,821 Speaker 1: pay sixteen dollars to maybe see her boom. Yes, I 734 00:34:31,822 --> 00:34:34,902 Speaker 1: don't think they're a very strict guy shocking thing in 735 00:34:34,902 --> 00:34:37,502 Speaker 1: the world. It's not that strict because I had to 736 00:34:37,542 --> 00:34:41,822 Speaker 1: join Only Fans when I was interviewing a creator last 737 00:34:41,902 --> 00:34:45,942 Speaker 1: year and to post picture on my feet. Yeah, I 738 00:34:45,982 --> 00:34:48,821 Speaker 1: was a bit confused about where Only Fans was. And 739 00:34:49,142 --> 00:34:51,422 Speaker 1: it's not an app, it's just a website essentially, and 740 00:34:51,462 --> 00:34:53,821 Speaker 1: you do have to whatever. It's tricky, it's not very 741 00:34:53,902 --> 00:34:58,661 Speaker 1: user friendly. But if the worst she's talking about is that, 742 00:34:58,862 --> 00:35:00,741 Speaker 1: because remember you meant to be over a certain age 743 00:35:00,781 --> 00:35:03,821 Speaker 1: to be on TikTok or you know whatever, and they 744 00:35:03,822 --> 00:35:06,701 Speaker 1: can pay six what they might typically but boobs, how 745 00:35:06,701 --> 00:35:09,741 Speaker 1: explicit is the content under that and you can see 746 00:35:09,741 --> 00:35:10,821 Speaker 1: a lot worse on the internet for free. 747 00:35:10,902 --> 00:35:13,261 Speaker 2: I actually think those other two claims are probably more 748 00:35:13,302 --> 00:35:17,502 Speaker 2: brand damaging because they press two very specific buttons. The 749 00:35:17,542 --> 00:35:21,982 Speaker 2: body positivity one, as Jesse's pointed out, is impossible to verify, yeah, 750 00:35:22,022 --> 00:35:25,861 Speaker 2: but very effective because what that claim does is it 751 00:35:25,902 --> 00:35:28,781 Speaker 2: puts a seed into the minds of everyone who loves 752 00:35:28,781 --> 00:35:30,741 Speaker 2: Anna Paul and who maybe is meta in an event, 753 00:35:30,822 --> 00:35:32,661 Speaker 2: and who has felt that Anna Paul sees them as 754 00:35:32,661 --> 00:35:35,261 Speaker 2: beautiful no matter what size they are. Maybe she was 755 00:35:35,302 --> 00:35:38,302 Speaker 2: mocking me all along. It's a very effective brand damaging 756 00:35:38,342 --> 00:35:40,301 Speaker 2: claim because it's no way of proving it wrong and 757 00:35:40,342 --> 00:35:42,861 Speaker 2: it goes to the heart of her appeal. And the 758 00:35:42,982 --> 00:35:46,301 Speaker 2: other one pushes a button that we love to push 759 00:35:46,382 --> 00:35:48,462 Speaker 2: in Australia, which is about class, which is you know, 760 00:35:48,661 --> 00:35:51,781 Speaker 2: classless Sali blah blah. No, it's like who's rich, who's poor? 761 00:35:51,822 --> 00:35:54,142 Speaker 2: Who should feel that way? What makes you rich? It's 762 00:35:54,302 --> 00:35:57,622 Speaker 2: a conversation that Australians love. So I actually think that 763 00:35:57,661 --> 00:35:59,862 Speaker 2: those two claims are probably more powerful. 764 00:35:59,982 --> 00:36:02,781 Speaker 1: I read Anna Paul's response to this, and I thought 765 00:36:02,822 --> 00:36:05,821 Speaker 1: it was very measured. She didn't talk about the lottery thing, 766 00:36:05,982 --> 00:36:08,862 Speaker 1: like she completely didn't talk about that, but she did 767 00:36:08,982 --> 00:36:11,981 Speaker 1: talk about the details that she might have said something 768 00:36:11,982 --> 00:36:14,701 Speaker 1: about a fan being sweaty or fat. She said she 769 00:36:15,022 --> 00:36:17,741 Speaker 1: would never call anyone fat, but she might have said 770 00:36:17,741 --> 00:36:19,902 Speaker 1: that someone was sweaty. And she said, when you're in 771 00:36:19,942 --> 00:36:23,502 Speaker 1: a line hugging like one hundred people, you know, sometimes 772 00:36:23,502 --> 00:36:25,142 Speaker 1: I have to get a wipe and wipe my shoulder 773 00:36:25,142 --> 00:36:27,661 Speaker 1: because people are sweaty. Sometimes people would probably walk away 774 00:36:27,701 --> 00:36:29,821 Speaker 1: and say, and a port was sweaty, because sometimes I 775 00:36:29,862 --> 00:36:33,462 Speaker 1: get sweaty. So she explained that in a way that 776 00:36:33,582 --> 00:36:36,261 Speaker 1: seemed plausible. And then the broke thing. Can you say 777 00:36:36,261 --> 00:36:38,502 Speaker 1: what she said, Jesse, because I thought this was interesting. 778 00:36:38,142 --> 00:36:41,261 Speaker 3: Too, the broke response because she uploaded that like a 779 00:36:41,382 --> 00:36:43,982 Speaker 3: seven eight minute video, and the broke thing was really interesting. 780 00:36:44,062 --> 00:36:46,382 Speaker 3: She said, when I said I grew up broke, that 781 00:36:46,582 --> 00:36:48,781 Speaker 3: is my experience. That is how I felt. When I 782 00:36:48,781 --> 00:36:50,502 Speaker 3: can hear my parents talking in the kitchen that the 783 00:36:50,502 --> 00:36:52,622 Speaker 3: budget for the groceries that week is thirty dollars, it 784 00:36:52,661 --> 00:36:55,261 Speaker 3: makes me feel broke when we can't afford school uniforms. 785 00:36:55,261 --> 00:36:57,781 Speaker 3: It makes me feel broke When I am eleven and 786 00:36:57,781 --> 00:36:59,741 Speaker 3: my friends can afford something and my parents can't, That 787 00:36:59,862 --> 00:37:01,142 Speaker 3: makes me feel broke. 788 00:37:01,261 --> 00:37:03,302 Speaker 1: What I think is so interesting about that is makes 789 00:37:03,342 --> 00:37:06,622 Speaker 1: me feel broke. And this idea about poverty or being 790 00:37:06,661 --> 00:37:10,701 Speaker 1: broke is a feeling. It's not necessary objective. I mean 791 00:37:10,701 --> 00:37:13,302 Speaker 1: it's both. It is. You know, there's a poverty line, clearly, 792 00:37:14,181 --> 00:37:16,822 Speaker 1: but the idea of it being a fear. 793 00:37:16,661 --> 00:37:21,261 Speaker 3: That has been widely mocked, the idea like TikTok is 794 00:37:21,302 --> 00:37:24,102 Speaker 3: now going I feel broke and making a big joke 795 00:37:24,181 --> 00:37:27,701 Speaker 3: of that. What I think She ended that by basically 796 00:37:27,781 --> 00:37:30,741 Speaker 3: saying I never said I was the most broke, and 797 00:37:30,781 --> 00:37:32,461 Speaker 3: there are always going to be people who are less 798 00:37:32,462 --> 00:37:32,781 Speaker 3: well off. 799 00:37:32,822 --> 00:37:33,942 Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought that was reasonable. 800 00:37:34,022 --> 00:37:35,421 Speaker 4: So we can't, like, what do we want? 801 00:37:35,462 --> 00:37:37,222 Speaker 3: Do we want to see a parents pay slips? 802 00:37:37,261 --> 00:37:39,462 Speaker 2: No? But come on, Like, I agree with all that 803 00:37:39,502 --> 00:37:42,502 Speaker 2: and empathy and kindness, et cetera. But if you're going 804 00:37:42,582 --> 00:37:45,501 Speaker 2: to make it part of your story that you grew 805 00:37:45,582 --> 00:37:48,062 Speaker 2: up working class and you didn't have things and you've 806 00:37:48,062 --> 00:37:50,542 Speaker 2: always wanted to be but you did actually grow up 807 00:37:50,582 --> 00:37:53,301 Speaker 2: in a house by the water with a pool. I'm sorry, 808 00:37:53,062 --> 00:37:56,661 Speaker 2: I don't think she shouldn't have done that. We're never 809 00:37:56,701 --> 00:38:00,142 Speaker 2: gonna for sure, It's just two people going against each. 810 00:38:00,142 --> 00:38:02,502 Speaker 4: I have literally only heard about this woman today, so. 811 00:38:03,422 --> 00:38:08,862 Speaker 1: That if you can feel your brain cells as they 812 00:38:09,302 --> 00:38:13,421 Speaker 1: just evaporate. I think what's interesting about this is that 813 00:38:13,462 --> 00:38:17,741 Speaker 1: the influencer taking on influencer playbook is an old and 814 00:38:17,902 --> 00:38:20,622 Speaker 1: very well used one, because like why is she come 815 00:38:20,661 --> 00:38:23,221 Speaker 1: out and done this? Like why because she's trying to 816 00:38:23,221 --> 00:38:25,462 Speaker 1: protect the kids from being lots. 817 00:38:27,062 --> 00:38:29,422 Speaker 3: At the end of her video, Mikayla says, I'm posting 818 00:38:29,462 --> 00:38:31,941 Speaker 3: this because I care about children and young adults being 819 00:38:31,942 --> 00:38:35,021 Speaker 3: conned by her, and I thought that is not why. 820 00:38:35,382 --> 00:38:37,821 Speaker 3: So the reason this is so big is because, as 821 00:38:37,862 --> 00:38:40,861 Speaker 3: we know, with TikTok, you will go viral faster than 822 00:38:40,862 --> 00:38:43,782 Speaker 3: anywhere else. We're talking twenty two to twenty three million views, 823 00:38:44,342 --> 00:38:48,142 Speaker 3: millions of likes, the death threats that both of these 824 00:38:48,181 --> 00:38:51,181 Speaker 3: women would be copying right now. If the end goal 825 00:38:51,422 --> 00:38:54,342 Speaker 3: is to get more subscribers to their only fans, maybe 826 00:38:54,382 --> 00:38:58,341 Speaker 3: that would work. But the conclusion I've made is that 827 00:38:58,862 --> 00:39:01,221 Speaker 3: Makayla and attis this guy who sounds awful like her 828 00:39:01,221 --> 00:39:04,341 Speaker 3: allegations are really serious against him. There's clearly been a 829 00:39:04,342 --> 00:39:05,062 Speaker 3: big falling out. 830 00:39:05,102 --> 00:39:08,062 Speaker 1: But that's not his sister. Like if he's a crazy. 831 00:39:07,902 --> 00:39:10,422 Speaker 3: Please, that's not his sister. But if I'm Kayla and 832 00:39:10,462 --> 00:39:14,102 Speaker 3: I do an explosive video about Attis, who firstly never 833 00:39:14,142 --> 00:39:16,741 Speaker 3: heard of him, Secondly he's a man, you're not gonna 834 00:39:16,741 --> 00:39:20,422 Speaker 3: get nearly as much traction. The interest here is two women, 835 00:39:20,741 --> 00:39:24,501 Speaker 3: two only fan stars, and guess what. The Internet has 836 00:39:24,781 --> 00:39:27,341 Speaker 3: images of them both in a bikini and they're gonna 837 00:39:27,382 --> 00:39:29,902 Speaker 3: post them everywhere and they're going to go back and forth. 838 00:39:30,142 --> 00:39:32,502 Speaker 3: And the drama and the heat and the energy. It's 839 00:39:32,582 --> 00:39:34,862 Speaker 3: like when I was talking recently about that wrestling documentary 840 00:39:34,942 --> 00:39:38,301 Speaker 3: as just wrestling, and so it's all like all of 841 00:39:38,302 --> 00:39:41,661 Speaker 3: this heat and momentum. It might look like fun for 842 00:39:41,701 --> 00:39:44,582 Speaker 3: a minute, but I watched Anna Paul's video and she 843 00:39:44,781 --> 00:39:47,502 Speaker 3: was saying this is going to kill someone. Like this 844 00:39:47,542 --> 00:39:49,821 Speaker 3: stuff where you pick up where you go, Anna Paul 845 00:39:49,902 --> 00:39:51,861 Speaker 3: is trending on the algorithm. I'm gonna pick my phone 846 00:39:51,902 --> 00:39:53,542 Speaker 3: up and do a take on Anna Paul. 847 00:39:54,261 --> 00:39:57,221 Speaker 1: All of that is sick virality of canceling. 848 00:39:57,302 --> 00:39:59,622 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And I just look at it and go 849 00:40:00,382 --> 00:40:02,181 Speaker 3: this is not fun. This is sinister. 850 00:40:03,502 --> 00:40:06,701 Speaker 1: Before we go. It was a big week at the Grammys. 851 00:40:06,862 --> 00:40:10,582 Speaker 1: It was one of the youngest, most female, most exciting 852 00:40:10,661 --> 00:40:13,582 Speaker 1: Grammys I watched. I mean, the ceremony was nuts. It 853 00:40:13,622 --> 00:40:15,582 Speaker 1: was three hours and forty five minutes. I didn't watch 854 00:40:15,582 --> 00:40:17,102 Speaker 1: all of it. I watched a lot of it on 855 00:40:17,181 --> 00:40:22,622 Speaker 1: fast forward, but the performances were We unpacked all of it, 856 00:40:22,701 --> 00:40:27,662 Speaker 1: including some unsolicited feedback from me about the Red carpet. 857 00:40:27,741 --> 00:40:32,661 Speaker 1: Everybody from Taylor to Doci to Chapel Roan to Gracie Abrams. 858 00:40:32,741 --> 00:40:34,862 Speaker 1: There was some very exciting things on the Red Carpet. 859 00:40:34,862 --> 00:40:38,782 Speaker 2: Boiler out me I has some feedback for Taylor Swift's hair, Yeah. 860 00:40:38,582 --> 00:40:40,982 Speaker 1: I do. As always, there'll be a link in the 861 00:40:40,982 --> 00:40:42,741 Speaker 1: show notes. You know you want to hear us talk 862 00:40:42,781 --> 00:40:44,861 Speaker 1: about that, so go ahead and listen now. 863 00:40:45,382 --> 00:40:47,741 Speaker 2: Massive thank you to all of the out louders for 864 00:40:47,781 --> 00:40:49,582 Speaker 2: being here with us today, and of course to our 865 00:40:49,622 --> 00:40:50,782 Speaker 2: team for putting it together. 866 00:40:51,022 --> 00:40:52,742 Speaker 4: We're going to be back in your ears tomorrow. 867 00:40:52,902 --> 00:40:54,142 Speaker 1: Sending love to you, Ruth. 868 00:40:54,502 --> 00:40:59,302 Speaker 3: Yeah. Shout out to any Mum and me A subscribers listening. 869 00:40:59,542 --> 00:41:01,701 Speaker 3: If you love the show and you want to support us, 870 00:41:01,942 --> 00:41:05,221 Speaker 3: subscribing Tomma Mia is the very best way to do so. 871 00:41:05,582 --> 00:41:07,342 Speaker 3: There's a link in the episode description. 872 00:41:09,902 --> 00:41:12,422 Speaker 2: Pay Do Be Repent content