Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mama Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. We pay our respects
Speaker 2: to elders past, present and emerging, and feel privileged to
Speaker 2: continue the sharing of birth stories and knowledge that has
Speaker 2: been a fundamental part of indigenous culture.
Speaker 3: Hi.
Speaker 4: I'm Cassani Lukig and this is Diary of a birth.
Speaker 4: On today's episode, we're revisiting a great conversation Jesse Stevens
Speaker 4: had a few years ago with a young mum brew
Speaker 4: was nineteen. She'd been experiencing some stomach aches, but had
Speaker 4: always suffered from IBD.
Speaker 1: I didn't think much of it until.
Speaker 4: She was sitting in an emergency room and a doctor
Speaker 4: pressed on her stomach. She didn't feel pain, but suddenly
Speaker 4: she thought she'd peed, but to her surprise, it was
Speaker 4: her water breaking. We'll let Jesse take.
Speaker 1: It from here.
Speaker 3: Can you tell me about the day that you started
Speaker 3: to have a weird tummy ache that kind of stopped
Speaker 3: you in your tracks.
Speaker 1: Well, I was at work, yep.
Speaker 5: I worked in hospitality and was setting up a function,
Speaker 5: and it was early morning and I actually started to
Speaker 5: get really bad lower back pain. Right, and was like, oh,
Speaker 5: what is this. I've done something. I've hurt my back
Speaker 5: moving furniture. And it started from there.
Speaker 3: And how old were you when you're working at this
Speaker 3: hospitality job. Nineteen, so you're nineteen. You've got a bit
Speaker 3: of a solo back, which happens when you're moving furniture
Speaker 3: or a you're moving stuff all around the place. When
Speaker 3: did it start to get more into your tummy?
Speaker 5: They sent me home early from my shift because I
Speaker 5: had a sew back. Went home, and actually it was
Speaker 5: when I got home, I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 5: my tummy's hurting like it was swollen. So I had
Speaker 5: no stomach as a pregnant person, and yeah, my stomach
Speaker 5: started to just get swollen and expand, like to a
Speaker 5: point where I can see people that are nine months
Speaker 5: pregnant now and I go, oh, yeah, that's exactly what
Speaker 5: my tummy looked like.
Speaker 1: But that was it.
Speaker 5: And I was at home with my sister and I
Speaker 5: was like, I can't supposed to play netball. I said,
Speaker 5: I can't play netball on my backs really saw I
Speaker 5: mean so much pain, look at my stomach. My sister goes, oh, oh,
Speaker 5: my col moum and their mum went calling an ambulance.
Speaker 3: Was it anything like period pain?
Speaker 1: It was worse, right.
Speaker 5: It started off like that lower back pain that you
Speaker 5: get with periods and so on. But then it just
Speaker 5: got worse and worse, and I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 5: this is not normal. And I had IBS when I
Speaker 5: was younger, yeah, and so I thought it was something
Speaker 5: to do with that, because my stomach had just swollen
Speaker 5: all of a sudden, And so that's why my mom
Speaker 5: said to my sister, call an ambulance. She's got to
Speaker 5: go to the hospital.
Speaker 3: So when you were in the ambulance on your way
Speaker 3: and you're in pretty excruciating pain, did you think they
Speaker 3: were going to look at you and go, all right,
Speaker 3: this is an IBS flare, Yeah, like here's some medicine.
Speaker 1: Yep. I thought it was a twisted bow.
Speaker 5: Like. I was like, oh my god, there, something's gone wrong.
Speaker 5: The whole time I was thinking that, And so the
Speaker 5: ambulance drivers were saying, they were like, okay, cool, it's
Speaker 5: something to do with your bows.
Speaker 3: And you arrive at the hospital and they want to
Speaker 3: take a little bit of a look. What do they
Speaker 3: do in terms of investigating going too emergency?
Speaker 1: So by that time.
Speaker 5: My mum was there, yep, And we're sitting in an
Speaker 5: emergency and the doctor comes over and just presses on
Speaker 5: my stomach.
Speaker 3: Did it hurt when he pressed on your stomach?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 5: It wasn't like, you know, really tough, like there was pressure,
Speaker 5: nothing that was excruciating. And yeah, pressed on my stomach
Speaker 5: and pressed low, way down, and I was like, oh
Speaker 5: my god. And he was like, what happened? And I
Speaker 5: went I think I've just got my pants and he
Speaker 5: was like, oh, I just disappeared for a bit.
Speaker 3: Was there any relief when you wet your pants?
Speaker 1: Not really.
Speaker 5: I was more like just going, oh god, how apparent totally.
Speaker 5: I was like, oh my god, embarrassing. And then I
Speaker 5: was like, oh, that's not normal. And then he rolled
Speaker 5: back in a monitor and put that over my stomach
Speaker 5: and were like, so that wasn't you wetting your pants.
Speaker 5: That was your water breaking and you're actually in labor.
Speaker 3: What went through your head in that moment?
Speaker 1: She panic?
Speaker 3: Yeah, like I said, oh my god, am I home?
Speaker 1: What what do you mean? And my Mum's going what
Speaker 1: she can't be? And I was like, OK, how do.
Speaker 3: Is how how I've not been pregnant? No?
Speaker 1: And because I had my periods the whole way through.
Speaker 3: Can you describe that because I've heard this before with
Speaker 3: people who have these surprise births every month. Were you're
Speaker 3: getting your period?
Speaker 5: Yeah, probably not as heavy as what they were, but
Speaker 5: they were coming, and like not something to make you go, oh.
Speaker 3: I haven't had my period at nine months.
Speaker 5: Yeah, maybe I should go and have a test or
Speaker 5: maybe nothing to that extent. And I was like, that
Speaker 5: doesn't make sense.
Speaker 3: And how about I see a woman at seven, eight,
Speaker 3: nine months pregnant and you couldn't miss it when you
Speaker 3: were at those months leaning up. I know that you
Speaker 3: said in those final hours you were like, hang on,
Speaker 3: what's happened to my stomach? But was there any sign
Speaker 3: any weight gain, any bloating.
Speaker 5: There was, but not to the point where you see
Speaker 5: a six seven months pregnant lady. It was just a
Speaker 5: bit of a belly. Yeah, And I, you know, finished
Speaker 5: high school, being nonschoolies felt you know, it's just wait
Speaker 5: because I've been out partying. Yeah, you know, nothing to
Speaker 5: the point of there's an actual live human growing about.
Speaker 3: A baby kicking? Did you ever have that?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 5: There was nothing to that, Like, so you know, how
Speaker 5: you see women that go oh look and the leg's
Speaker 5: going yeah, nothing, nothing like that. But like I remember
Speaker 5: like lying on the lounge one night with my sister
Speaker 5: and I was going, look like I can move, I
Speaker 5: can move this thing, and like my sister going, oh,
Speaker 5: that's gross your bows And I was.
Speaker 3: Like, this has gotten out of hand totally. It was,
Speaker 3: And how about I'm morning sickness.
Speaker 1: No morning sickness?
Speaker 3: So looking back, was there anything when you're in that
Speaker 3: state of shock? Are you even able to go back
Speaker 3: and go oh maybe that was a sign.
Speaker 5: Or the only thing that really sticks out is for
Speaker 5: my nineteenth birthday, I had all my friends come over
Speaker 5: and we were going to a nightclub and we were
Speaker 5: having cake and everything before at home before we went out,
Speaker 5: and my sister said something or one of my friends
Speaker 5: said something, and I got really emotional.
Speaker 1: Right, and that was like out of Cara. Yeah, Like
Speaker 1: I was like, why am my office on?
Speaker 5: Like really crying about something really silly that happened, but
Speaker 5: like to the point where I had to like, oh
Speaker 5: my god, and went upstairs to my room and had
Speaker 5: to be cry, and then came back down and went
Speaker 5: out with all my friends. That's so interesting, But that's
Speaker 5: the only thing, like, looking back, I got, oh, yeah,
Speaker 5: that probably makes sense.
Speaker 3: Were you worried at nineteen that your mum or your
Speaker 3: dad would be.
Speaker 1: Mad at you?
Speaker 3: Was that a factor?
Speaker 5: It went through my mind, but not to the point
Speaker 5: of them thinking less of me or disowning me or
Speaker 5: anything like that. They're very, very supportive, and they were
Speaker 5: very supportive in all those early stages.
Speaker 3: So did you have a sense when you're told you're
Speaker 3: in labor, you're nineteen, you have not mentally prepared for this.
Speaker 3: Let alone, don't even get to the baby labor. You
Speaker 3: haven't prepared for that. Did you just feel so trapped
Speaker 3: in that moment of just like, how am I going
Speaker 3: to get this out of me?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I had no idea.
Speaker 5: The only thing that was quite comforting about was obviously
Speaker 5: my mum was there, and there was a lovely midwife,
Speaker 5: like lovely who just made everything okay. I'm not a
Speaker 5: big panicker anyway to go okay whatever, But I think
Speaker 5: you know it went out that you did know relief,
Speaker 5: so everyone was just really calm. I didn't know what
Speaker 5: I was doing. I think that helped. That was just
Speaker 5: there going it's okay, you know, this is what you've
Speaker 5: got to do and explained it all and there was
Speaker 5: no drugs. It was just the little green whistle that
Speaker 5: I had.
Speaker 3: And how was saying, were you in labor then? So
Speaker 3: you started feeling that in the morning during your shift?
Speaker 3: When did you actually give birth to the baby?
Speaker 1: Two twenty oh that's quick.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So obviously they said to me afterwards that your
Speaker 5: labor started with that pain. And that would have been
Speaker 5: maybe eight o'clock in the morning, seven or eight o'clock
Speaker 5: in the morning, and then went home at lunchtime ish,
Speaker 5: because I remember we had to play netball at eleven
Speaker 5: o'clock or something, and so it was just before that
Speaker 5: and I was like, I can't go to netball to
Speaker 5: my sister, so yeah, and then taken to the hospital
Speaker 5: and I.
Speaker 1: Had her at too. So it was really quite quick
Speaker 1: two hours if that.
Speaker 3: As you say, you had the whistle, but was the
Speaker 3: pain pretty much can't even handle it towards the end
Speaker 3: because you've not had an eppy dural or anything like that.
Speaker 1: Nothing.
Speaker 5: No, it just felt like you just needed to push,
Speaker 5: like everything was just pushing down. I wasn't in any pain,
Speaker 5: and even like you know, pushing her out was painful.
Speaker 5: But all I remember doing is just swearing a lot,
Speaker 5: going oh oh oh, and that was it.
Speaker 3: Can you talk me through what that does to your
Speaker 3: head in terms of the level of shock. Because your
Speaker 3: baby girl comes out, that must have been beautiful and exciting.
Speaker 3: But this also is not how you thought your day
Speaker 3: was going. No, in terms of shock, what are the
Speaker 3: next few hours? Like, how do you get your head
Speaker 3: around what's happened?
Speaker 5: It was just a lot of staring at her in
Speaker 5: a non creepy way, but just going oh god, oh
Speaker 5: my god, that just happened. It was shock, but it
Speaker 5: wasn't a terrible shock. It was just like, oh God,
Speaker 5: this has happened, and now I have to.
Speaker 1: Think about it.
Speaker 5: But what I'm going to do? What's my life going
Speaker 5: to be?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 5: Am I going to keep her? So there was all
Speaker 5: that kind of talk with you know, my mom and
Speaker 5: my dad at that point he'd come in, so both
Speaker 5: my parents were there when I had her, so that
Speaker 5: was quite nice.
Speaker 1: They were both there.
Speaker 5: But yeah, it was just that, right, okay, this is happening.
Speaker 3: Were you living at home at the time, Yes, So
Speaker 3: I imagine there wasn't.
Speaker 1: A cot handy nothing.
Speaker 3: Was it you that went Okay, we've got to set
Speaker 3: this up. Or was it your parents that went we
Speaker 3: know what step comes next?
Speaker 5: It was my ear, It was my parents, So my
Speaker 5: mom and my dad really just sort of stepped it
Speaker 5: up and contacted everyone, and it's sort of I live
Speaker 5: in the eastern suburbs and so it sort of spread
Speaker 5: like wildfire that I just had a baby. So all
Speaker 5: my friends were playing netball at the same time as
Speaker 5: my sister and you know, had sort of said, oh,
Speaker 5: I've pres gone to the hospital or something's happened, and
Speaker 5: mom called my sister and told her and she came
Speaker 5: up and then had said to my close girlfriends, this
Speaker 5: is what's happened. So they all came up to the hospital,
Speaker 5: and they got told at the hospital from my mom
Speaker 5: who went out and said, oh, you're all aunties. So
Speaker 5: they had no idea and so they all came in
Speaker 5: and were just in shock too. Were they excited they were,
Speaker 5: I think they were more in shockgoing we just thought
Speaker 5: you didn't want to play netball, And then it just
Speaker 5: sort of spread that they told their parents and everyone
Speaker 5: just sort of was like, right, we know she's got
Speaker 5: nothing because it's you know, no one new, so it
Speaker 5: was just people all banded together and I got a bassinette.
Speaker 5: Everyone went out and bought baby clothes everything. So it
Speaker 5: was just a nice feeling to know that, you know,
Speaker 5: the group of people that I've grown up with all
Speaker 5: banded together and their parents and set it all up.
Speaker 5: So I went home. Probably I stayed in the hospital
Speaker 5: longer than you, because obviously I was still in shock
Speaker 5: and they needed to know teach me everything. So no,
Speaker 5: like I had done none of the prenatal classes, so
Speaker 5: I had to go to all the classes postnatal, like
Speaker 5: how to change a happy, how to breastfeed, how to
Speaker 5: you know, barth the baby, how to do all this stuff?
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness.
Speaker 5: So yeah, staying longer than expected, probably five days, and
Speaker 5: then went home to what was a set up nursery.
Speaker 3: Were you someone who as a teenager had thought much
Speaker 3: about having kids?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: Right, how about in terms of if you saw a
Speaker 3: baby or whatever, were you maternal or were you kind
Speaker 3: of indifferent?
Speaker 1: I wasn't maternal. That's an awful thing to say.
Speaker 3: No, I think most women feel like that.
Speaker 5: I'm not anyone that thought I would not that I
Speaker 5: would never have children, But I was never thinking, right.
Speaker 1: This is my plan.
Speaker 5: I'm going to meet to the man in my dreams
Speaker 5: and you know we're gonna fall pregnant and have millions
Speaker 5: of babies and baba nah. Not a fairy tale kind
Speaker 5: of person. But it just happened.
Speaker 3: I guess. The other question from that story is what
Speaker 3: is going on with the father? Are you sitting there
Speaker 3: going what do I need to tell him? What was
Speaker 3: that like? Thinking about that conversation?
Speaker 1: It was awkward.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was like weird because I was like, he
Speaker 5: didn't know that I was pregnant.
Speaker 3: He wasn't a person I decided to have a.
Speaker 5: Child, you know, and it was just like how does
Speaker 5: this happen? And then I was like, oh, I do
Speaker 5: have to say something, Yeah, let's just leave it. It
Speaker 5: was very much or do I really I don't know?
Speaker 5: And then you know it was my mum and you know,
Speaker 5: everyone sort of saying, well, he needs to know when
Speaker 5: his parents need to know that their grandparents all that
Speaker 5: kind of stuff, and then the conversation was just I've
Speaker 5: got had a baby and it's yours and it was
Speaker 5: not a nice conversation. It was a didn't really believe it,
Speaker 5: and so that ended any contact.
Speaker 3: So it was father, you and the baby.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 3: What did you name the baby?
Speaker 1: Megan?
Speaker 3: And when did you decide I can do.
Speaker 1: This straight away?
Speaker 3: When you saw her?
Speaker 4: Yep?
Speaker 3: Can you describe what that felt like, the moment that
Speaker 3: you're staring into this face going, I don't know where
Speaker 3: you came from, but is there that initial connection?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Definitely it was a bit like, oh gosh, how do
Speaker 5: I hold a baby? Yeah, after you just had it
Speaker 5: and you're still, you know, having someone fix up your blows.
Speaker 5: But yeah, just staring at her, I thought, Okay, I
Speaker 5: can do this. I can this is my new life challenge.
Speaker 3: And the next few months you're obviously the first in
Speaker 3: your group of friends to have a baby.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I would imagine even with your sister and stuff, that
Speaker 3: wasn't you know, on the cards yet.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Do you look back on those months as predominantly challenging
Speaker 3: or predominantly amazing or both?
Speaker 5: Probably a bit of both, because it was also at
Speaker 5: a time where weird or just finished school. It was
Speaker 5: all about going out on the weekends and I wasn't
Speaker 5: able to do that, So in that sense it was challenging,
Speaker 5: but it was I don't want to say the word
Speaker 5: that I was sad, or depressed about it. I was
Speaker 5: just like, Okay, that's fine, I can't do that stuff.
Speaker 5: But then I would always go, well, you know what,
Speaker 5: I've actually, you know, now, got this little human that's
Speaker 5: relying on me. So when you weigh it up, well
Speaker 5: let me go out and get drunk. Well stay at
Speaker 5: home with a little human. But yeah, that's right that
Speaker 5: you can just sort of, you know, snuggle with and
Speaker 5: just stare at and and the getting up three or
Speaker 5: four times during the night. You just sort of go, okay,
Speaker 5: well I might have been getting home at this time anyway.
Speaker 3: So from those friends and from the community you were
Speaker 3: saying that the word kind of spread like wildfire. At
Speaker 3: any point, did you feel judged by people?
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 5: Were there comments or yeah there were comments. There were
Speaker 5: comments from friends that were like, she's just ruined a life.
Speaker 3: And how did you respond to that kind of stuff?
Speaker 1: I still respond to that stuff.
Speaker 5: So this day, you know, I still have that in
Speaker 5: the back of my mind that I'm going to prove
Speaker 5: that you can actually do this, and I have. I've
Speaker 5: had a great career and I've still got a great career.
Speaker 5: I've got a great daughter who's turned out to be fantastic.
Speaker 5: And some of these people that made these comments are
Speaker 5: still in that insular world of where they are and
Speaker 5: they haven't changed a lot. And I've you know, traveled
Speaker 5: the world with my daughter.
Speaker 3: Hmmm.
Speaker 5: So it's definitely been comments. And I know, like people
Speaker 5: probably you know, said way much more that I didn't
Speaker 5: hear about. But yeah, there was some comments that I
Speaker 5: was like, you know what, I'll prove you wrong.
Speaker 3: Sometimes you need that can start a little fire in
Speaker 3: your back.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it did because I thought, no, I'm not
Speaker 5: gonna let having a child when you didn't know ruin
Speaker 5: your career. You can still have a career, and you know,
Speaker 5: it might just take a little bit longer to get
Speaker 5: to the point where you need it to get to.
Speaker 5: And it was hard, like when she was younger trying
Speaker 5: to still work, but I managed it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And how old is your daughter now?
Speaker 1: She's twenty one, she turns twenty two in June.
Speaker 3: Can she believe that at nineteen you were caring for
Speaker 3: a baby.
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: Do you look at her and just go, oh, my goodness,
Speaker 3: I go.
Speaker 1: Thank goodness, you don't have a child. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And as you were bringing her up, especially in those
Speaker 3: early years, were your parents instrumental and sort of helping
Speaker 3: out with ay around.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they were great.
Speaker 5: So both my parents, both my sisters, my extended family,
Speaker 5: and my meeting just fantastic. So my parents are divorced,
Speaker 5: and I think by me having Meg it made them
Speaker 5: have a relationship still s we were one then maybe
Speaker 5: they wouldn't have had if I didn't have Meg.
Speaker 1: It's sort of kept us close.
Speaker 5: We have always been a close family, but it's definitely
Speaker 5: brought everyone closer together.
Speaker 1: And it's babies do that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and everyone can agree that babies are great.
Speaker 5: Yes, that's exactly right. It was lovely because it was,
Speaker 5: you know, a surprise. Everyone had to adjust. It wasn't
Speaker 5: just me that had to adjust. I've you know, both
Speaker 5: my mum and dad and my sisters and we all
Speaker 5: had to adjust to having just now this you know,
Speaker 5: precious little baby.
Speaker 3: And yeah, oh that is just the most incredible story. Finally,
Speaker 3: I wanted to ask, what did that experience teach you
Speaker 3: about birth? Because there are people who wouldn't believe that
Speaker 3: that can even happen, that when they fall pregnant it's
Speaker 3: all about vitamins and doctor's appointments and don't do this
Speaker 3: and don't do that, and it's such a miracle a
Speaker 3: story like that. What did your experience that young teach
Speaker 3: you about birth?
Speaker 5: It's a hard one because I didn't know, like you know,
Speaker 5: there was nothing to know prior. So you know, even
Speaker 5: my friends now that have all had babies or you know,
Speaker 5: still pregnant, go, I can't do this and I can't
Speaker 5: do that.
Speaker 1: Oh you can.
Speaker 5: You just got to look at it in a different way.
Speaker 5: And you know, they actually use me as well. Look
Speaker 5: what happened with brew and Meg.
Speaker 3: If she could do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it is quite okay.
Speaker 5: But look, I think every birthing story is very different,
Speaker 5: and every woman's very different. And regardless of how much
Speaker 5: you want to say, this is what you need to
Speaker 5: do and this is how you've got to follow and
Speaker 5: you can't have this and you've got to make sure
Speaker 5: you do X, Y and Z. That might be different
Speaker 5: to another another woman. And I think that's what I
Speaker 5: tell people. There was nothing before I went to the hospital.
Speaker 5: There was nothing I can say this is how I
Speaker 5: lived my life beforehand, because how I lived my life
Speaker 5: beforehand was a nineteen year old who was girl who
Speaker 5: liked going down to the pub and going out, so
Speaker 5: I don't have anything up until that point.
Speaker 1: But all I can say is.
Speaker 5: That the pain you feel during labor, as soon as
Speaker 5: you see a baby, you'd sort of forget about it.
Speaker 5: And yes, you know you had pain, but you produced
Speaker 5: a little baby out of it, and you sort of
Speaker 5: go doesn't matter. Everything else is forgotten because now you've
Speaker 5: got someone that you've got to look after for the
Speaker 5: rest of your life.
Speaker 3: It's so incredible and I think that that's a credit
Speaker 3: to you to be able to adapt to a circumstance
Speaker 3: that is that out of your control. But you're exactly right.
Speaker 3: I mean, to forge your career, that's a hurdle, but.
Speaker 1: You can still do it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and maybe it doesn't look like the path that
Speaker 3: someone else followed, but you get to do it with Meg.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and that's fun. That's exactly right, and we do
Speaker 5: have lots of fun.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining. You're welcome.
Speaker 4: Thank you for listening to Diary of a Birth. If
Speaker 4: you like our show, don't forget to subscribe and rate.
Speaker 4: See you next week.
Speaker 1: Bye.