Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello, and welcome to
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia out Loud and to our Friday show.
Speaker 3: You know what happens on Friday.
Speaker 2: We let go of the news cycle and we just
Speaker 2: take a deep breath in and then we just go.
Speaker 3: Yes, we do a bit of We were talking about
Speaker 3: whim Hoff. He'd want us to do what box breathing.
Speaker 2: And in through one nostril and out through that. You
Speaker 2: wouldn't be able to hear that out louder, So that's fine.
Speaker 3: Maybe we are doing that.
Speaker 2: Maybe It's Friday, the eighteenth of October, and my name
Speaker 2: is Holly Wayne Wright.
Speaker 3: I'm Jesse Stevens and I'm in Burnham.
Speaker 4: You can normally hear me on our daily entertainment podcast
Speaker 4: The Spill. I'm filling in for mea.
Speaker 2: Today and on the show in Defense of Marital Secrets?
Speaker 2: Does intimacy really have to go hand in hand with
Speaker 2: being a wide open book? Also, we have your weekend
Speaker 2: recommendations for you. I've got a book that blew my
Speaker 2: tiny mind. Jesse is pretending she watches other things. Than
Speaker 2: true crime docos, and wants to tell you about something
Speaker 2: British and scary. Who is It's not you my mother?
Speaker 3: Also what it's really.
Speaker 2: Like to live without a phone, a man on a
Speaker 2: train and the truth about them sicky. It's best and
Speaker 2: worst of the week, But first, Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 3: In case you missed it. How you dream depends on
Speaker 3: where you're from and how old you are. Em you're
Speaker 3: in your twenties, so I'm going to assume you dream
Speaker 3: in TikTok in dancing sound bites where you're just mouthing.
Speaker 3: An article in The Washington Post looked at the differences
Speaker 3: between how we dream and did you know that if
Speaker 3: you grew up without a color television, so that would
Speaker 3: mean that you're in your seventies or something, then you're
Speaker 3: less likely to dream in color.
Speaker 4: I was gonna say fifties. I'm a bit of excuse me.
Speaker 3: It was once believed dreaming and color was associated with
Speaker 3: psychological issues, but that myth has now been dispelled. Younger people,
Speaker 3: based on a number of surveys, generally dream more in color,
Speaker 3: but this drops by about twenty percent by the age
Speaker 3: of sixty. Dream recall, including the level of detail is
Speaker 3: understood to decline with age without telling me what you
Speaker 3: dreamed about last night, because I do not care. Do
Speaker 3: you dream in color? Yeah?
Speaker 4: I dream in color. So are we saying that when
Speaker 4: I get older, I'll stop dreaming in color, like my
Speaker 4: ink runs out? Those are just the generations now.
Speaker 3: No, I believe that as you get older, well you'll
Speaker 3: recall declines. But yeah, it's not as kind of vivid.
Speaker 3: The color is as vivid.
Speaker 4: No, I still dream in color, so that means I'm
Speaker 4: very youthful and young.
Speaker 3: And do you dream in faces? Like is it like
Speaker 3: a movie? What does it look like?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like I'm living my life. So my worst
Speaker 4: dream ever is when I dream like that I'm coming
Speaker 4: to work, because then I wake up and I still
Speaker 4: have to go to work, so I feel that I've
Speaker 4: done it twice. I do have this reoccurring dream that
Speaker 4: I thought everyone got until I started talking about it
Speaker 4: and people are like, that's weird. Where it's like if
Speaker 4: I go to sleep without going to the bathroom before
Speaker 4: going to sleep and I need to start going to
Speaker 4: the bathroom, I'll dream about going to a toilet, but
Speaker 4: my dream will like stop me from actually entering the
Speaker 4: cubicle because it doesn't want me to pee in the bed.
Speaker 4: And then I suddenly wake up and I'm like, oh
Speaker 4: my god, I need to go a bathroom.
Speaker 3: Oh no, I don't have those. I just get woken
Speaker 3: up like all the time by needing to pee.
Speaker 4: So you're subconscious is saying go, it's protecting me. Yeah,
Speaker 4: And it's like making all these locks on the bathroom door.
Speaker 4: I can't get to I can't remember.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think if I dream in color, I
Speaker 2: must dream in color, right, because I'm not that old.
Speaker 2: But also I don't know. I always remember the vibe
Speaker 2: of the dream rather than the visuals.
Speaker 3: So do you mean the vibe?
Speaker 2: Was it scary?
Speaker 3: Was it happy?
Speaker 2: Was it good?
Speaker 3: Did I like it?
Speaker 2: Was it making me anxious?
Speaker 3: So that's what a lot of research on dreams is
Speaker 3: said that the thing that sticks with you about dreams
Speaker 3: often isn't the imagery but the feeling. You know, you
Speaker 3: wake up with a bad feeling some days and then
Speaker 3: you're like, oh, I had this terrible dream. Sometimes I
Speaker 3: put put together the plot. But I think I've read
Speaker 3: that dreams are actually just your brain throwing you a
Speaker 3: bunch of random images from your day, and then the
Speaker 3: way the brain works is that it has to make
Speaker 3: a coherent story, so then you try and put something together.
Speaker 3: But I often just remember the plot. I don't think
Speaker 3: I dream in images or anything. Really, I'm definitely not
Speaker 3: seeing it like a movie.
Speaker 2: And you know, people dream in the language they're speaking
Speaker 2: and stuff like that, right, because our head of content
Speaker 2: was telling us, because she lives in a bilingual house,
Speaker 2: her little boys still dream in Swedish.
Speaker 3: Which because they language talk. She was saying, they actually
Speaker 3: sleep talk in Swedish, which.
Speaker 2: Is the language their dad speaks to them, and that
Speaker 2: they were immersed in when they were tiny and she
Speaker 2: was pregnant with me.
Speaker 3: In your dreams, does everyone have a British accent?
Speaker 2: It's a very good question. You have to pay more
Speaker 2: attention next time I'm dreaming. When I was on holiday,
Speaker 2: you know how when he's sleeping a stranger, I don't worry.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to tell you my dreams. I agree
Speaker 2: with you, Jesse boring. But when I was on holiday,
Speaker 2: you know, when he's sleeping in strange bed, I had
Speaker 2: a really scary dream, like a nightmare, like a kid,
Speaker 2: and I woke up just like but even now I
Speaker 2: couldn't tell you was it color? Was it in English?
Speaker 3: Was it in Mancuni? And I don't know.
Speaker 4: The Atlantic posted an article titled in Defense of Marital Secrets.
Speaker 4: It was based off an idea from Lauren Elkins's book
Speaker 4: called Scaffolding, which suggests that you actually shouldn't tell your
Speaker 4: partner everything and that total honesty can only take a
Speaker 4: relationship so far.
Speaker 3: This completely blew.
Speaker 4: My mind because I've not been in a relationship, and
Speaker 4: I thought the whole point of being in a relationship
Speaker 4: is that you finally have someone to tell everything too.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, when you say you haven't been
Speaker 2: in a relationship, what's your longest relationship?
Speaker 4: Probably like a year in a bit, that's a.
Speaker 2: Relationship, Yeah, but like it's one that I want to
Speaker 2: forget about it. You don't call it like you haven't
Speaker 2: lived with someone or that kind of thing. So you've
Speaker 2: dated people, but not for longer than that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've never been with someone where I was like,
Speaker 4: this is my person?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 3: Have you been in love? Yes?
Speaker 2: And did you feel like that should come with no secrets?
Speaker 4: No? No, I think like when you live with someone,
Speaker 4: I think it's the twenty four seven, like, once you
Speaker 4: spend twenty four seven with someone, that's when I feel
Speaker 4: like I believed when someone's meant to know everything about you.
Speaker 3: And what you're speaking to is exactly the myth. I
Speaker 3: think we're fed from childhood because I thought exactly the
Speaker 3: same thing. I have a twin, so I have a
Speaker 3: built in best friend, but I definitely had this sense
Speaker 3: that one day there would be someone who really knew
Speaker 3: me inside and out, they knew everything about me, and
Speaker 3: I would have this best friend where I was porous,
Speaker 3: and I guess this is like some sort of fairy
Speaker 3: tale thing. Perhaps we learned through movies and books and
Speaker 3: stuff that someone will complete you and then you'll live
Speaker 3: with them and there'll never be any secret and they'll
Speaker 3: be total intimacy. But this thing happens where you add
Speaker 3: in other factors like sex, like money, like kids, like
Speaker 3: in laws, and suddenly, in fact, friendships are a lot
Speaker 3: simpler because with my best friends, we're not sharing money,
Speaker 3: and we're not navigating a sex life, and we're not
Speaker 3: deciding how to copare and a child. So in fact,
Speaker 3: to have a loving partnership, I've found that sometimes those
Speaker 3: secrets are necessary. Do you think the same thing, Holly.
Speaker 2: Well, obviously people.
Speaker 3: Doesn't even know where she lives. You know, you know,
Speaker 3: I like it. I like my privacy.
Speaker 2: I might live with three other people, and presd and
Speaker 2: I have been together twenty years private person. When I
Speaker 2: read this headline, I loved it in defense of marital secrets,
Speaker 2: because I think as relationships progress, you do need to
Speaker 2: bits of yourself. And one of the things that blew
Speaker 2: this open for me. We've talked about this on the
Speaker 2: show before, but Jesse has just read All Fours by
Speaker 2: Miranda july Sovian. It's a story about a woman in
Speaker 2: midlife who I mean, she's having a midlife crisis really.
Speaker 2: But one of the things in the first half of
Speaker 2: the book that she keeps saying about her relationship with
Speaker 2: her husband, which is all pretty ordinary relationship to be honest,
Speaker 2: is that one day they will be some kind of
Speaker 2: breakthrough where they truly know each other in any everything,
Speaker 2: and that they're like just two souls like bleeding together,
Speaker 2: and he will truly know her in every way and
Speaker 2: understand all her weirdness and eccentricities and her him, and
Speaker 2: they'll tell each other all their thoughts and all the
Speaker 2: weird things that you're scared to say out loud and
Speaker 2: all of those things right, and that doesn't happen. But
Speaker 2: it's interesting because I do think, as Jesse says, that's
Speaker 2: what we think, that's what romantic love has to be,
Speaker 2: but that actually probably as relationships progress, to stay successful
Speaker 2: and healthy, you need to keep bits of yourself, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, You need to you and you're you.
Speaker 2: So we asked the out louders right about whether or
Speaker 2: not they think it's okay to keep secrets in their relationships,
Speaker 2: and they gave us some examples, but one of them
Speaker 2: that I really I like this because you've got to remember,
Speaker 2: if you're thinking about marital secrets, there's a difference, and
Speaker 2: a very important difference between a secret and a lie.
Speaker 2: Right in my opinion, and obviously i'm a relationship guru,
Speaker 2: an unmarried relationship guru. In my mon there should be
Speaker 2: a bright line about lying like not cool I mean
Speaker 2: white lies. I know that's a term that's very unpopular
Speaker 2: because all lies of deception, but I don't think it's
Speaker 2: a lie when somebody says how much was that shirt
Speaker 2: and you say I can't remember, I don't think.
Speaker 3: That's See my parents have always had a rule where
Speaker 3: I think they both know what happens. My mum halves
Speaker 3: the amount because she knows he'll double it. Yeah, so
Speaker 3: that's how it works. It's like Dad will say how
Speaker 3: much did the new door cost? And she'll be like,
Speaker 3: m fifty dollars and he's like, it cost one hundred dollars.
Speaker 3: And that's just how they speak.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so I think that that does you.
Speaker 3: But no, I don't think.
Speaker 2: That counts as a lie, right, I don't think that
Speaker 2: counts as a lie. Like a lie is different. If
Speaker 2: someone asks you something directly and you don't tell them,
Speaker 2: that's a lie, and that's a breach of trust. But
Speaker 2: not telling them everything, that's different. Right, And then let
Speaker 2: me quote you this out Louder quoted Outlander. The outlouders
Speaker 2: who have watched Outlander or read Outlander. That's the one
Speaker 2: about the very hot man in a kilt and some
Speaker 2: time traveling. That's all you need to know about that.
Speaker 2: But this out Louder said. One of the favorite lines
Speaker 2: about Outlander not going to do the accent because that
Speaker 2: would be offensive to Scott's everywhere is there are things
Speaker 2: I can't tell you, at least not yet. And I'll
Speaker 2: ask nothing of you that you can't give me. But
Speaker 2: what I would ask of you when you do tell
Speaker 2: me something, let it be the truth. And I promise
Speaker 2: you the same. We have nothing between us but respect, perhaps,
Speaker 2: and I think that respect has some room for secrets,
Speaker 2: but not for lies.
Speaker 4: Do you agree?
Speaker 2: And I'm like, yes, I agree. I now live my
Speaker 2: life by outlander.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, I think that that's an important difference. One
Speaker 3: of my friends, this is one of my favorite secrets,
Speaker 3: is that she had booked a Plartes class that she
Speaker 3: was meant to go to and she rushed to get
Speaker 3: there and she missed it, like just was five ten
Speaker 3: minutes lights, so couldn't go. And then she was like, well,
Speaker 3: you know what, I'm hungry. I'm going to go get
Speaker 3: drived through. So she spent that hour sitting there just
Speaker 3: eighty McDonald's. And when she got home, he said, how
Speaker 3: the vallarates class? And she said, good, but is that
Speaker 3: a lie? That's a lie? It probably is, but to
Speaker 3: me harmless secret. That secret the type of thing you
Speaker 3: will tell all of your friends, but you just look
Speaker 3: at them and you're like, I still want you to
Speaker 3: love me.
Speaker 2: Plisso what about this one. This is another out loud
Speaker 2: ast one. My husband and I have no secrets from
Speaker 2: the time we've been together, but we haven't disclosed all
Speaker 2: the details of our lives before that because honestly, neither
Speaker 2: of us really need to know the antics of each
Speaker 2: other in their twenties.
Speaker 3: Is that cool?
Speaker 2: I think so?
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 2: In your mind, when you meet the one with capital
Speaker 2: T capital oh, you'll tell them everything ever happened to you,
Speaker 2: and they'll tell you everything that's ever happened to them.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I picture us going like doing that. I love yous,
Speaker 4: Like we're in bed doing that, I love you and
Speaker 4: we're sitting up and we're like, now go and then
Speaker 4: you're just like a list every single thing about like
Speaker 4: your life, everything that no one else knows. And then
Speaker 4: he goes and I'm like, will this make it? Hopefully?
Speaker 3: Okay, here's an example, right, this is this is one.
Speaker 3: So you've been in a relationship, and one thing that
Speaker 3: Luca and I said before we got married is, and
Speaker 3: we're very influenced by Esparrell, is just because you're married
Speaker 3: to someone, or just because you're in a long term
Speaker 3: monogamous relationship doesn't mean that every now and then you're
Speaker 3: gonna find someone else attractive, right, It's gonna be a
Speaker 3: little crushes and that's absolutely fine. And the other day
Speaker 3: we're talking about something, and something came up about someone
Speaker 3: that Luke thought was attractive, and he decided he would
Speaker 3: tell me that, and I thought that would best be
Speaker 3: kept to see. Yeah, was it a real.
Speaker 4: Person or a celebrity?
Speaker 3: Oh, it was a real person.
Speaker 5: Yes.
Speaker 3: He just kind of went on about it a bit
Speaker 3: and I kept trying to cut him down.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but and then criticize them, and he was like,
Speaker 3: I don't really think that, And I just thought that's
Speaker 3: an inside thought.
Speaker 2: See this is interesting because my general philosophy about relationships
Speaker 2: is that blanket rules a bully it because we're all different,
Speaker 2: so we all know.
Speaker 3: Any out louder knows that.
Speaker 2: Jesse is a bit jealous, So Luca should have shut
Speaker 2: up about that.
Speaker 3: I reckon, when you have a crush, I don't think
Speaker 3: you need to tell your partner about it. No, I agreed.
Speaker 2: But there are some couples for whom that would be
Speaker 2: quite exciting, and they would tease each other about it
Speaker 2: and be like, next time you're enough, Oh you live
Speaker 2: her who you like? And they would have fun with it.
Speaker 4: You're not that peronn't think that's fun, But do you
Speaker 4: secretly want to know?
Speaker 3: This is a complexity, is that Luca will never and
Speaker 3: has never lied to me, like he is the honest
Speaker 3: to a fault. Probably his greatest flaw is that he
Speaker 3: could be a little bit gentler with the truth. But
Speaker 3: him telling me that, also in terms of trust, I
Speaker 3: just went, I've got nothing to worry about because honestly,
Speaker 3: Luke will call me before he cheats, like he's not
Speaker 3: going to do something behind my back. So in that
Speaker 3: way there's the trust. But also there are some details,
Speaker 3: and I think this is also about you might be
Speaker 3: at a certain position in your relationship. There are things
Speaker 3: that in any relationship you find hard about each other,
Speaker 3: and I don't think sometimes trying to hide those is
Speaker 3: necessarily a bad thing. So even like Lucra and I have,
Speaker 3: I think it's a barefoot investor thing. The NQA account,
Speaker 3: which is the no questions asking acount, which is like
Speaker 3: we get a certain amount of money every month and
Speaker 3: we don't look at all. The other person wants if
Speaker 3: I want to go and spend my money at Mecca,
Speaker 3: and he thinks that that's not a good use of money,
Speaker 3: none of his business, and like, we don't have to
Speaker 3: be in each other's.
Speaker 2: Pockets because with that, it's not the family finances exactly
Speaker 2: totally different.
Speaker 3: And I think that finance is like, if you're going
Speaker 3: to go and spend someone else's money or whatever, then
Speaker 3: that matters. But I think sparing like the person that
Speaker 3: you're with, of things that are going to stress them
Speaker 3: out or like I just unnecessary. I think that can
Speaker 3: be a kindness.
Speaker 2: I have another test for you, Emma, you and your
Speaker 2: imaginary partner. What about other people's secrets? Because what a
Speaker 2: lot about Loud is said, there's a hierarchy of secrets, right,
Speaker 2: So what about a lot about Loud has said, I
Speaker 2: keep any secret that isn't really mine. So say your
Speaker 2: friend something about one of your mutual friends, or something
Speaker 2: is about someone in their family or your family who's
Speaker 2: told you something in confidence. Do you tell your partner
Speaker 2: in this idyllic version of complete honesty.
Speaker 4: See, I thought it was a given. I thought everything
Speaker 4: I told my friends their partner would already like would know.
Speaker 4: I thought that came with the rules of your friend
Speaker 4: being in a relationship. So I've just been going like
Speaker 4: meeting people's partners going you probably know everything and they're like,
Speaker 4: who are you?
Speaker 3: And I'm like, oh no, no, no, no, no, no, girl.
Speaker 3: I have a strict because next time, as a friend.
Speaker 4: That makes me feel good that you're not telling a
Speaker 4: partner about I mean, I.
Speaker 2: Might tell, like Brent, things about our mutual friends that
Speaker 2: aren't a big deal. But if my friend has said
Speaker 2: to me, please don't tell anyone, then I won't tell
Speaker 2: him really unless I mean, what if he asks, Well,
Speaker 2: I can't think of very many examples where he would.
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously, you sometimes get in sticky situations where
Speaker 2: you're friends with a couple, and that can be tricky
Speaker 2: when shit goes down, and I've lived through all that
Speaker 2: and you have to navigate that.
Speaker 3: That's hard.
Speaker 2: So there are things that you just wouldn't say because
Speaker 2: you don't want to put that person in a situation.
Speaker 2: But my loyalty remains with my friend who told me
Speaker 2: a secret, unless it's unless it's something that like would
Speaker 2: directly affect Brent's life, Like imagine for example, which wouldn't
Speaker 2: happen in my world. But like if they said, you'll
Speaker 2: never guess what, but Brent's about to get fired. Obviously,
Speaker 2: don't tell him, But broadly speaking, a secret that isn't
Speaker 2: about me or mine, I wouldn't ever tell him that.
Speaker 4: That makes me feel really good.
Speaker 3: What kind of artsholes do you think your friends with
Speaker 3: a will all do?
Speaker 2: This is a great one from Karen and out Louder,
Speaker 2: who wishes there were more secrets in a relationship I've
Speaker 2: spent the last I don't know if this qualifies as
Speaker 2: a secret, but here you can tell me. I've spent
Speaker 2: the last twenty five years with my husband leaving very
Speaker 2: early for work, which left me with time to myself
Speaker 2: in the mornings. I still had the kids, but they
Speaker 2: were either asleep or busy getting ready for school. I
Speaker 2: used to take this time to pluck my chin hair,
Speaker 2: lip hair after a shower, lift my big boobs up
Speaker 2: under the fan to dry out, and spread my legs
Speaker 2: in front of the fan, also to dry out please
Speaker 2: a pimple or waxy under armed bikini line, and basically
Speaker 2: have me time while I.
Speaker 3: Got ready for work. Well, now he's partly retired.
Speaker 2: And his home all the time every morning. I don't
Speaker 2: like him knowing or seeing me dry out my big
Speaker 2: boobs under the fat I've kept him private, our whole
Speaker 2: married lives secret blown.
Speaker 3: Oh I love that so much, Liza.
Speaker 4: I feel like bathroom secrets are different though, Like whatever
Speaker 4: happens in the bathroom stays in the bathroom.
Speaker 3: I agree. And there's even you know, if I'm at
Speaker 3: home with Luna for the day and look ast me
Speaker 3: about my day, omit a nap? Like if I went
Speaker 3: and had a nap when there are just certain things
Speaker 3: that make me sound a little bit shitter, and I'm like.
Speaker 4: Well, you're like, well, this is the person I wanted
Speaker 4: to be today, so you're going to get that first try.
Speaker 3: I slaved over the stove and I was actually nothing
Speaker 3: for that. Or like if I missed a deadline and
Speaker 3: I did something a bit, I wouldn't tell him that
Speaker 3: because I just not being the person to the deadline.
Speaker 3: I agree, So you just tell a little lie.
Speaker 2: What about botox? So quite a few out louders say
Speaker 2: that the secret they keep from their partner is their
Speaker 2: Auntie Rinkle injections. Do we have any judgments about that?
Speaker 4: I would tell about the injections if I got injections
Speaker 4: only because I feel like if it was obvious, Because
Speaker 4: I feel like sometimes it's obvious with women that I
Speaker 4: feel like someone would be like, oh, I didn't know
Speaker 4: Emily got botox to my partner, and then he'd be like,
Speaker 4: what thoughts.
Speaker 3: I have friends that wouldn't tell their partner just because
Speaker 3: they can't be bothered having the conversation because their partner's
Speaker 3: going to go. I think it looks beautiful without it,
Speaker 3: and it's like, it's not about you, in which case
Speaker 3: I kind of defend that. The question for me is
Speaker 3: does the secret erode trust? And if you're not looking
Speaker 3: them in the eye lying, then I don't think it
Speaker 3: necessarily does. And there are certain secrets that can make
Speaker 3: a marriage more loving because you know each other's soft spots,
Speaker 3: you know each other's the bits that you might just
Speaker 3: kind of dance around a little bit. And so a
Speaker 3: lot of women as well saying that they go to
Speaker 3: the hairdresser and they don't tell their partner how much
Speaker 3: their hair cost. I mean, you can probably check the
Speaker 3: bank statement, but I don't feel like that's a conversation that.
Speaker 2: Needs to because it's definitely not the conversation these happened.
Speaker 2: We ask some of our Mamma Meer staff about secrets
Speaker 2: they would keep in relationships, and this is what they said.
Speaker 1: When it comes to keeping secrets.
Speaker 2: My partner knows nothing about what I spend, and I
Speaker 2: completely control the budget.
Speaker 5: My partner and I have been together for eight years now,
Speaker 5: and for two of those years, I was a pretty
Speaker 5: heavy smoker, and I completely kept it from him and
Speaker 5: he had no clue. I felt terrible all the time
Speaker 5: we were living together and I was smoking in our backyard.
Speaker 5: The only reason why I kept it from him was
Speaker 5: because I knew he hated smoking and I didn't want
Speaker 5: him to lecture me, so I just kept it under wraps.
Speaker 6: So very early on in our relationship, one of my
Speaker 6: partner's best friends told me that I was too good
Speaker 6: for my partner and then I should leave him, and
Speaker 6: that he thought I was punching and that my partner
Speaker 6: wasn't good enough for me. That person isn't in our
Speaker 6: life anymore. They stopped being friends, but I never told
Speaker 6: my partner because I thought it would upset him and
Speaker 6: I didn't agree. And here we are, twelve years, two
Speaker 6: kids later, a beautiful life, and they were clearly wrong.
Speaker 6: And I still think that I wouldn't tell my partner
Speaker 6: now because there's no point.
Speaker 1: I think it's absolutely fine if someone fakes an orgasm
Speaker 1: in a marriage. You know, we're all busy, we're all tired,
Speaker 1: and you don't want anyone to feel bad like they're underperforming.
Speaker 1: So it's kind of an act of kindness if you
Speaker 1: just pretend Yeah, that was great, but really you just
Speaker 1: want to go to sleep.
Speaker 6: Love making.
Speaker 5: My husband gives how much my makeup and beauty products cost,
Speaker 5: and of.
Speaker 6: Course I say sure, darling whinny yeses, which is always
Speaker 6: completely wrong.
Speaker 1: I don't keep a single secret from my partner sometimes
Speaker 1: actually he tells me that I should keep more secrets
Speaker 1: from him, and I don't need to tell him quite
Speaker 1: so much.
Speaker 3: But I'm an open book.
Speaker 2: What was interesting to me about the ones from the
Speaker 2: MoMA Mere people is money. It's a big thing that
Speaker 2: comes up a lot, right, and whether or not you
Speaker 2: have to be honest about what you spend on one.
Speaker 2: And I think that's a big issue for you if
Speaker 2: you have had issues with money in the past. Yeah,
Speaker 2: sex is interesting. Yeah, faking orgasms, No one's faking orgasms
Speaker 2: in your perfect imagination.
Speaker 4: Imaginary relationship. I'm like, Okay, you can fake an orgasm
Speaker 4: if you're in a long term relationship. Don't fake an
Speaker 4: orgasm if you're just like short term or dating because
Speaker 4: you're doing every other woman in disservice.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker 2: I mean, when they're set, this person is set, loose.
Speaker 3: Back out and you're only fucking your selfie us you are.
Speaker 2: But the one that's probably the most interesting there in
Speaker 2: a way is the one she's never told her partner
Speaker 2: that the friend said something horrible about him. I think
Speaker 2: those are always secrets worth keeping, is ones that would
Speaker 2: just really upset someone. And yet what's the point of
Speaker 2: telling anyone that, Like, what's the point of upsetting somebody.
Speaker 3: If anyone in your life has ever said anything awful
Speaker 3: about them? No, no way, I would be repeating that.
Speaker 2: The smoker one, she's dreaming. He knew the whole time
Speaker 2: I went through that. I used to be a smoker
Speaker 2: and I had a boyfriend who was so anti smoking,
Speaker 2: and I used to sneak out and I was there
Speaker 2: with the bloody washing up gloves and the Polo mints
Speaker 2: and the chewing gum and they're fresh, and I like,
Speaker 2: as if he didn't know, he knew, And when we
Speaker 2: broke up, he was like.
Speaker 4: I know you still smoke and I was like me,
Speaker 4: what do you mean seeing you with your bag of
Speaker 4: supplies every day?
Speaker 3: I don't know what you mean. I's a probably with
Speaker 3: living in a house with someone. I tried to keep
Speaker 3: a secret recently, just for a bit of fun spicings
Speaker 3: up and Luca walked in and looked me in the
Speaker 3: eye and said when were you going to tell me?
Speaker 3: And then just delivered my secret. I didn't have to confess.
Speaker 3: Out louders, jump in the mumme er out Louder's Facebook group.
Speaker 3: We have a thread that we've pinned in there with
Speaker 3: just all of the secrets that people are keeping from
Speaker 3: their partners, what they think they can keep or shouldn't keep.
Speaker 3: Please jump in and let us know. Well, it's all right,
Speaker 3: I'm your free answer. Everyone assumes you'll tell me everything.
Speaker 3: What you get that from, Well, they're a couple, it's understood.
Speaker 2: I never heard of that.
Speaker 3: Well, you've never been a couple.
Speaker 6: Love couple, love coupled.
Speaker 2: Keeping secrets Out loud. It's Friday, and we have recommendations
Speaker 2: for your weekend for you. So Jesse Stevens recommend a
Speaker 2: TV show.
Speaker 3: This is right up your Ali, Holly, have you heard
Speaker 3: of this. Yeah, No, I haven't disclaimer.
Speaker 2: I saw the notes in the script, and I was like,
Speaker 2: why haven't I heard of this?
Speaker 3: Yes, since because you've been on a desert island with
Speaker 3: no reception. But I'm breaking some rules here because I've
Speaker 3: only watched two episodes. But that's because there's only two
Speaker 3: episodes available, and I wanted to recommend something that isn't
Speaker 3: a true crime doco. Just in brackets here, the new
Speaker 3: Menendez doco. Has anyone seen that?
Speaker 5: Is that?
Speaker 3: Worth my time?
Speaker 5: Oh? So good?
Speaker 3: So good?
Speaker 2: I did now think there should be led out.
Speaker 3: They should be let out. Absolutely, Yeah, that's what I believe.
Speaker 2: Kardashian says so, and I generally choose to believe them.
Speaker 3: Gadashian's our folip rap. They should be let out. That
Speaker 3: is the documentary. I didn't watch the TV series. Now
Speaker 3: watch the doco. That was fantastic, and the Lazy Peterson
Speaker 3: one also brilliant.
Speaker 2: Okay, something that isn't true crime, please Jesse, you students.
Speaker 3: Okay, this is fake crime. I have watched Disclaimer Apple TV,
Speaker 3: and I wanted to fill the whole of presumed innocent.
Speaker 2: Sorry, this show is called disclaimer, or you're making a
Speaker 2: disclo called Disclaimer.
Speaker 3: The show is called Disclaimer. It's very I keep forgetting it.
Speaker 3: I keep thinking it's called disclosure or something. Anyway, I
Speaker 3: wanted to fill the whole of Presumed Innocent because that
Speaker 3: was brilliant. And then I read about this and it
Speaker 3: is made by an Oscar winning director. It has Cate
Speaker 3: Blanchette and Sasha Baron Cohen in the lead roles, and
Speaker 3: it recently premiered at one of the fancy film and
Speaker 3: has almost universally positive reviews. This is a premise. Blanchette
Speaker 3: plays a famed documentary journalist and she gets sent this
Speaker 3: book or novel, and you watch her in one of
Speaker 3: the first scenes read this book and she runs to
Speaker 3: the toilet and vomits, and it's just triggered a real
Speaker 3: emotional response. And it's because she recognizes herself as one
Speaker 3: of the characters, and it has revealed a secret that
Speaker 3: she's been trying to keep hidden for years and years
Speaker 3: and years. So it's very marital secrets.
Speaker 7: All these years, you have concealed parts of yourself from
Speaker 7: the world to.
Speaker 2: A beacon of truth, somebody who inspires me every every day.
Speaker 7: You keep everyone in the dark to maintain a balance,
Speaker 7: and you think you have succeeded until now.
Speaker 3: It is very cinematic. It feels like a movie. It's
Speaker 3: over like a series, really kind of premium first to
Speaker 3: have dropped next to a dropping tonight, and then it's
Speaker 3: like every week until mid November. But everyone's talking about it.
Speaker 3: It's very mysterious, thriller, dark and it's got Cape Blanchet.
Speaker 3: Oh brilliant. It sounds amazing.
Speaker 2: I'm jumping in in between the two TV shows with
Speaker 2: a book I have read, which I know Jesse has
Speaker 2: also read, not least because we're both interviewing the author.
Speaker 2: In fact, I did it last night. Jodi Picot, I
Speaker 2: think you might have heard of her. She's just written
Speaker 2: a few little books. Yeah, just a few little books,
Speaker 2: books like My Sister's Keeper, Mad Honey. I read books
Speaker 2: like small great things, all these amazing books. Anyway, Her
Speaker 2: most recent book is called by any Other Name, and
Speaker 2: the reason it blew my mind. Like all her books
Speaker 2: are very immersive. She's absolute master of plot, but she
Speaker 2: also goes deep into whatever she's writing about, and this
Speaker 2: is historical fiction.
Speaker 3: After I read Mad Honey, I am a beekeeper. There's
Speaker 3: not a single thing I don't know about bees.
Speaker 2: She is research heavy, but also very easy to read anyway.
Speaker 2: By any other name, there isn't it blue my tiny mind.
Speaker 2: The broad premise is it's a historical fiction and it's
Speaker 2: about although it plays out in two timelines, two women.
Speaker 2: But the main premise is that William Shakespeare, the most
Speaker 2: famous playwright whoever lived.
Speaker 4: I'm familiar. Now are you familiar with his work?
Speaker 2: I'm glad assume no knowledge. You never know did not
Speaker 2: write his place. Now I know because I've read this
Speaker 2: book and then did lots of googling. This is a
Speaker 2: well established theory, right that there's a group of people
Speaker 2: for hundreds of years who have believed that Shakespeare was
Speaker 2: actually either a group of people or somebody else.
Speaker 3: Entirely because he wrote in detail about places he'd never
Speaker 3: been to, about all of these It's almost like he
Speaker 3: was a publishing company who employed other authors like the
Speaker 3: other people, to write his place.
Speaker 2: There are a lot of people who do not subscribe
Speaker 2: to this theory. It's worth saying, of course, there lots
Speaker 2: of people who do believe he was a genius and
Speaker 2: that he wrote all these plays. But the premise of
Speaker 2: this book is that Shakespeare was really a woman, or
Speaker 2: mostly a woman, a specific woman who is the first
Speaker 2: published poet in Britain called Amelia Bassano. And it is
Speaker 2: such an interesting novel because that might sound quite dry
Speaker 2: on the surface of it, if you're not really interested
Speaker 2: in whether or not Shakespeare road his plays. But what
Speaker 2: it does so brilliantly is dives into a world where
Speaker 2: women had no agency whatsoever. Right, So Amelia Bossano, as
Speaker 2: a woman who was born sort of not wealthy, didn't
Speaker 2: have status that meant she was going to marry some
Speaker 2: high up aristocrat or whatever. So she got farmed out
Speaker 2: very young. And this is a real person who did exist.
Speaker 2: This is all true. Got farmed out very young to
Speaker 2: be the mistress to a fancy guy, which is what
Speaker 2: happened in those days, and you get kept and then
Speaker 2: all these things happened to her. But really she is
Speaker 2: this artist. It's so interesting because then of course Becao
Speaker 2: overlays it with a current plotline about a female playwright
Speaker 2: who also is finding it very hard to get any
Speaker 2: credit in that world because female writers are overlooked. It's
Speaker 2: really good, Like I just found the historical element. I
Speaker 2: was page turning because I wanted to know what happened
Speaker 2: to Amelia. It also blew my mind about this whole
Speaker 2: idea that maybe Shakespeare wasn't Shakespeare, and also the stuff
Speaker 2: about the current day playwright. I hadn't really considered that
Speaker 2: there are still so few women in that area.
Speaker 3: It's really smart and it got me in the hook
Speaker 3: at the beginning. Is very very good. It's very pasty
Speaker 3: by any other name, Jodi.
Speaker 4: Pico, I am recommending a new Wish show on Binge
Speaker 4: called Sweetpea. Actually, our CEO and Matt Harvey recommended it
Speaker 4: to me, and she started talking about it to me
Speaker 4: in a way that I should have known what it
Speaker 4: was because entertainment podcast, and she's like, obviously, watching Sweetpea,
Speaker 4: I need to reevaluate your job. So it's a dark
Speaker 4: comedy that's set in the UK. It stars Ella Panell.
Speaker 4: You might know from Yellow Jackets or Fallout if you've
Speaker 4: watched any of those shows. A brilliant but.
Speaker 2: I'm sure I would know her if I saw her.
Speaker 3: Everyone else in the world has watched Yellow Jackets. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's true massive.
Speaker 4: She's got like the biggest eyes ever. I think she's
Speaker 4: going to be like the next Florence Pew.
Speaker 3: Oh wow.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So she plays this girl named Rihannon Lewis who
Speaker 4: had an absolutely awful childhood, like relentlessly bullied, and it's
Speaker 4: kind of like those bullying situations that just makes you
Speaker 4: into an adult that you don't want to be. Like
Speaker 4: everyone was walking over her metaphorically physically everyone's stepping over her,
Speaker 4: and no one really likes her. They find it really weird.
Speaker 4: So she makes a list of people that she hates
Speaker 4: who has like kind of destroyed her life, and then
Speaker 4: she starts killing them.
Speaker 7: A lot of victim not anymore. You made me who
Speaker 7: feel invisible.
Speaker 2: You didn't exist to me then, and you don't now.
Speaker 7: You ruined my life. I don't underestimate me.
Speaker 3: She's not who you think she is.
Speaker 4: Fun and after every kill, Jesse, it's actually quite it's
Speaker 4: so funny. After every kill, she gets like this wave
Speaker 4: of like self assurance and confidence, and she like is
Speaker 4: better at her hair and makeup and she looks more
Speaker 4: put together and everyone starts recognizing her and appreciating her.
Speaker 4: It's so funny. It also has Jeremy Swift who played
Speaker 4: Higgins in ted Lasso.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: He plays her boss. So she is like a reporter
Speaker 4: and like it's just so good. It's called sweet Pea,
Speaker 4: Sweet Pea on binge.
Speaker 3: Aw that sounds good.
Speaker 4: For links to all of our recommendations, make sure you
Speaker 4: are signed up to the MMA mea out Loud newsletter.
Speaker 4: I literally pour my heart and soul into it so.
Speaker 3: Good single week. If you want to know what's going
Speaker 3: on in EM's mind, it's put together the best in there.
Speaker 4: And if you've already subscribed, share it with a friends
Speaker 4: because they're gonna love it. You know they love it.
Speaker 4: We will put a link to that in our show notes.
Speaker 3: One unlimited out Loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday
Speaker 3: and Thursday exclusively for Mum and Maya subscribers. Follow the
Speaker 3: link in the show notes to get us in your
Speaker 3: ears five days a week. And a huge thank you
Speaker 3: to all our current subscribers. In his time for our
Speaker 3: best and worst of the week, Holly, let's start with
Speaker 3: your worst.
Speaker 2: My worst. I listened to the episode you did last
Speaker 2: week when m was sick with Amelia where you talked
Speaker 2: about canceling plans. That wasn't my worst. It was a
Speaker 2: very good episode. Don't worry.
Speaker 3: It was terrible. It was the worst thing to know.
Speaker 2: I wantedn't at all, but I had to cancel a
Speaker 2: plan this week for very sad reasons.
Speaker 3: That I hated.
Speaker 2: I hate canceling things that you people have been counting
Speaker 2: on you. But I was meant to be today flying
Speaker 2: to Perth actually to speak at a fiction festival. If
Speaker 2: you were going to that, I'm sorry everybody, because I'm
Speaker 2: not going. But I had to cancel because Brent's father's
Speaker 2: really unwell in New Zealand and he's had to fly
Speaker 2: to be with him. And it's one of those I've
Speaker 2: talked about this often, one of those really shitty family
Speaker 2: moments where living far from your family, whether it's in
Speaker 2: New Zealand, whether it's in England, whether it's in another state,
Speaker 2: whether it's in another city, it's just so difficult and
Speaker 2: so emotionally, logistically mentally challenging all the time. And we've
Speaker 2: just been on this amazing holiday which I'm about to
Speaker 2: tell you about, but we're coming back and like being
Speaker 2: slapped in the face with all that reality and then
Speaker 2: having to cancel this important work thing I wanted to
Speaker 2: do but for obviously very important reasons. That was definitely
Speaker 2: my worst and my heart goes out to anyone who's
Speaker 2: juggling all that stuff at the moment with elderly parents and.
Speaker 3: As you say, when you can't go and visit, you
Speaker 3: can't just get you. You can't.
Speaker 2: And there are these terrible maths that everybody has to
Speaker 2: do in this instant where you're like, we now do
Speaker 2: I go?
Speaker 3: Afterwards? Do I go?
Speaker 2: And it's it's just awful. So you know it's Brent's worst,
Speaker 2: no doubt. But also in terms of canceling plans, there
Speaker 2: are really shitty reasons for doing it. And that's what
Speaker 2: happened to me this week. So if you were going
Speaker 2: to see me at the Perfection Festival this weekend, I
Speaker 2: apologize for not being there. You won't miss me. There
Speaker 2: are so many amazing riders on the panel I was
Speaker 2: going to be on. But that's why I'm not my
Speaker 2: best though, is that we have just been on the
Speaker 2: most amazing family holiday for a week and we went
Speaker 2: to a place called lord How Island, which some of
Speaker 2: you might have heard of the people always saying, oh,
Speaker 2: is it like a tropical land. It's actually officially in
Speaker 2: New South Wales, even though it takes two hours to
Speaker 2: fly there. It's right, little tiny dot in the middle
Speaker 2: of the ocean.
Speaker 4: And that's so wild because I've seen photos and I'm like,
Speaker 4: it looks like you're in a different country.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, it is the most beautiful place. And I'll
Speaker 2: share some photo. I haven't put any photos online yet,
Speaker 2: but I'll share some photos maybe in the newsletterround here
Speaker 2: if you want to please. And I'm sure I'll get
Speaker 2: around to sharing some more later. But it's the most
Speaker 2: perfect place. But the exciting thing one of the many
Speaker 2: exciting things about lord How Island is it has no
Speaker 2: mobile phone reception and no Wi Fi coverage. So there
Speaker 2: are a couple of places on the island, some like
Speaker 2: resorts and lodges, but not the one that we stay
Speaker 2: at that has internet, but generally speaking, it doesn't. And
Speaker 2: you can't call people and you can't text people, and
Speaker 2: it's like it's very unplugged. So I made a decision
Speaker 2: to take advantage of this because life's busy and everything,
Speaker 2: and I was like, I'm going to literally unplug for
Speaker 2: a week and I'm only going to use my phone
Speaker 2: as a camera. It's only allowed to be a camera.
Speaker 2: And I went into a cafe and checked Wi Fi
Speaker 2: like a couple of times. Obviously, check important things like
Speaker 2: family stuff. As we were discussing about Brent, it was
Speaker 2: a revelation.
Speaker 3: Are you a different person? Are your mental illness is cured? Like,
Speaker 3: please laborate.
Speaker 2: Okay, here are some things you know that happen when
Speaker 2: you're off Internet for a week, Particularly for me, who
Speaker 2: lives a lot on social media for both professional and
Speaker 2: personal reasons, out and say it's for professional reasons. But
Speaker 2: come on, now, go on. There are a lot more
Speaker 2: hours in the day when you are not scrolling on
Speaker 2: your phone. There is literally a lot more time.
Speaker 3: But what are you doing on Well.
Speaker 2: You read a book, you go for a swim, you
Speaker 2: do other things.
Speaker 3: But like, I literally couldn't believe how long the day was.
Speaker 3: It was amazing.
Speaker 2: I'd wake up in the morning and be like, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna lie in because I could, because my kids are
Speaker 2: old enough now that you're like, I'm not like jumping
Speaker 2: out of bed to other I'm going to lie in
Speaker 2: bed until whatever time and finish this book that I'm
Speaker 2: reading or whatever. And I don't have that constant pool
Speaker 2: bigl in my head of like what's happening on Instagram?
Speaker 2: What's happening on Like I didn't know so That was
Speaker 2: one thing. Life is long. It's inconvenient because you can't
Speaker 2: text your partner and go we're at the cafe, or
Speaker 2: we're at the beach, or we're going to stay a
Speaker 2: bit longer here. Everyone just has to accept show them somewhere.
Speaker 3: Around, yeah, like.
Speaker 2: I don't know they'll turn up.
Speaker 5: That was that.
Speaker 3: That was interesting.
Speaker 2: Being cut off from the news cycle is good and
Speaker 2: bad because you can genuinely live life as if all
Speaker 2: the awful things that are happening in the world aren't
Speaker 2: happening in the world. And that might be good for you,
Speaker 2: but it's probably not good for the world, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, because we do probably need to know
Speaker 2: what those things are. You know, My first instinct every
Speaker 2: morning when I wake up is I check various news sites, Instagram,
Speaker 2: my messages, WhatsApp, and I do that every morning.
Speaker 3: Before I wake up.
Speaker 2: The other disadvantage, though, is you know how I'm trying
Speaker 2: to become a different person to meditate.
Speaker 3: How do you meditate me out of fine?
Speaker 2: This is the thing is that.
Speaker 5: I was.
Speaker 3: How do you spend time on your kna?
Speaker 2: This is the thing is I was, like on the
Speaker 2: first morning, because we're standing this lovely resort called Pine Trees.
Speaker 2: It's so beautiful there. It's so peaceful. We have this
Speaker 2: deck that was all greenery. I'm like, I'm going to
Speaker 2: get up. I woke up early. I'm going to go
Speaker 2: and sit out on the deck and I'm going to
Speaker 2: do my meditation. Pulled out my app to pressure prepetation.
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, I can't do that, Damn, what do
Speaker 3: I do?
Speaker 5: What do I do? Know?
Speaker 3: I'm thinking to think and breathe and think and breathe.
Speaker 2: And then so when I went to the cafe for
Speaker 2: Wi Fi later that day, I downloaded like three meditations.
Speaker 2: So anyway, I came back like a semi different person,
Speaker 2: but not really. And then so I'm trying to change
Speaker 2: my morning habit now because I'm like, do I need
Speaker 2: to do that? The first thing I do when I
Speaker 2: wake up scroll my phone?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 2: Well, it will the world end if I don't check
Speaker 2: my mass just for another half an hour. No, So
Speaker 2: I'm going to try and do that. But the best
Speaker 2: was that amazing holiday in the amazing place and being unplugged.
Speaker 5: It was great.
Speaker 3: I want to go so badly. It was so beautiful.
Speaker 2: We swim with turtles, we went hiking like it was just, oh,
Speaker 2: so heaven wholesome.
Speaker 3: All right, I'm going to go next my worst. It
Speaker 3: was actually really scary. I was coming to work on
Speaker 3: Monday morning and I was getting the train and I
Speaker 3: was getting off at King's Cross station, which is right
Speaker 3: near our work. I thought that as I was getting off,
Speaker 3: someone sort of tripped over me, and I stopped and
Speaker 3: looked up and this man who'd been standing near the
Speaker 3: door had then fallen down all of the stairs on
Speaker 3: the train imagine top cabin. Who was on the top
Speaker 3: cabin bit had fallen all the way down and had
Speaker 3: landed in a way I've never seen a human being
Speaker 3: land no. And for a second I went, did I
Speaker 3: trip him?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 3: Was I so in my own head that I tripped him?
Speaker 3: And then I saw the color of his face, and
Speaker 3: I heard a few people At that stage. I was
Speaker 3: standing between the doors to just be like, don't leave,
Speaker 3: like we need to get paramedics or something on here.
Speaker 3: But someone said, he's fainted. He's fainted, and he had collapsed.
Speaker 3: He'd been standing there and he'd collapsed down the stairs
Speaker 3: and he was still unconscious. It was so horrific to
Speaker 3: be that close to it. But also you like to
Speaker 3: think that in that situation, you'd be a hero. And
Speaker 3: I felt a little bit frozen, and I stood in
Speaker 3: between the doors and I signaled for the person on
Speaker 3: the train, just kind of like can you come over?
Speaker 3: Can you come over? And I don't think they realized
Speaker 3: what was going on, And then I had that moment
Speaker 3: of do I call the ambulance or is that more
Speaker 3: confusing because he was on a walkie talkie and it
Speaker 3: was just there were all these people around. I mean,
Speaker 3: what was great was that there were people that definitely
Speaker 3: knew what to do, that knew not to move him.
Speaker 3: This lovely woman just held his hand and just went
Speaker 3: you're okay, You're okay, and was so comforting. And I've
Speaker 3: been the person who was fainted in public before, and
Speaker 3: when you come to it is fucking terrifying because you're like,
Speaker 3: where am I, What's happened? You're embarrassed and something had
Speaker 3: like he looked incredibly UNWELM. But yeah, just that moment
Speaker 3: of going, oh my goodness, says have I done something?
Speaker 3: And also not knowing what your role is in that. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it is a situation.
Speaker 2: It's interesting because you probably have the same thing too,
Speaker 2: that that happened to me not that long ago at
Speaker 2: the train station when a man collapsed and a lot
Speaker 2: of people were helping him. And so then you think
Speaker 2: if I try and help too, If I try, and
Speaker 2: I'm just going to make things more confusing. But then
Speaker 2: you're like, but do I really just walk past exactly?
Speaker 2: And am I a bad person if I walk past?
Speaker 2: Or am I a bad person if I try and
Speaker 2: get involved? And like what if somebody doesn't have a phone,
Speaker 2: And then you remember everybody's got a phone and it's yeazing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you sort of don't know what to do. It
Speaker 3: was really really confronting. And now I can't stop thinking
Speaker 3: about that man, and you never get to check. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you never get to go back and go, hey, was
Speaker 3: that man all right? Because I haven't stoped thinking about
Speaker 3: him since Monday. So that was that was really scary.
Speaker 3: My best of the week was last week I hosted
Speaker 3: Zoe Foster Blake's book launch. She's written this new book
Speaker 3: called Things Will Come Down Soon. It is fantastic. It
Speaker 3: is about female founders and the world a female business.
Speaker 3: Really interesting, and so I went and hosted this and
Speaker 3: I'd had a really rough day at work and was
Speaker 3: just you know when you don't fill in the right
Speaker 3: head space to do something you're looking forward to because
Speaker 3: you just kind of in the car. I kept trying
Speaker 3: to take the deep breaths and be like, Okay, come
Speaker 3: yourself down, get into it. And look, I knew I
Speaker 3: was prepared. And you know with those events that they're
Speaker 3: not about you, about how important they are to the
Speaker 3: person you're hosting it for. And it was at Bondai Pavilion.
Speaker 3: It was a big deal. I was like, I want
Speaker 3: to do a good job, so tried really hard, and
Speaker 3: then when we walked off, you know, people were like,
Speaker 3: good job, good job. But you go you know they
Speaker 3: have to say everyone has to say good job, and
Speaker 3: then you kind of go home and you wonder if
Speaker 3: you did do a good job. But as I was
Speaker 3: walking out, this woman came over to me, who works
Speaker 3: at this venue and said, I'm here for a lot
Speaker 3: of these. We do these all the time. And that
Speaker 3: was brilliant, like I want to let you know what
Speaker 3: a good job you did, and she looked me in
Speaker 3: the eye and it was so like genuine and I
Speaker 3: never feel it when people say lovely things like that.
Speaker 3: And I walked out going, oh, I actually feel like
Speaker 3: I did a really good job today, And I thought
Speaker 3: that is such a reminder that I don't do it
Speaker 3: enough where it's like you're barista or the chef when
Speaker 3: you're out in public and you see someone do a
Speaker 3: great job at something and you go, oh, they probably
Speaker 3: just know. This woman just really took her time to
Speaker 3: tell me. And I haven't stopped think about it all week.
Speaker 3: Where I was like, oh, I don't know, it actually
Speaker 3: made me feel proud. So now I'm like committing to
Speaker 3: going I'm gonna do better at time people when they've
Speaker 3: done a good job at time.
Speaker 4: Its me of like telling people like compliment them more
Speaker 4: if you don't really know them and stuff. If you
Speaker 4: genuinely think something's good that they don't like, say it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly right, it'll totally like change their week. M
Speaker 3: what was your worst?
Speaker 4: Okay, my worst was but trivial. But I was on
Speaker 4: a date with a guy. We went for a walk
Speaker 4: in a park. We were probably out in this public
Speaker 4: park for about an hour and then we went back
Speaker 4: to mind and we were kind of just lounging about
Speaker 4: and I was lying down and he put his hand
Speaker 4: on my arm and was like and you've got your period.
Speaker 4: And I was like no, what and it was like
Speaker 4: a week early and I'm like what, Like I was
Speaker 4: genuinely confused. And then he looked down and I looked down,
Speaker 4: bled through like my light blue linen pants, like complete what?
Speaker 2: Okay, back up, back up, I have questions. Me isn't here,
Speaker 2: so I have to step into the inappropriate question role here?
Speaker 2: What number?
Speaker 5: Date?
Speaker 3: Second date? Do we like him?
Speaker 4: Unclear?
Speaker 3: It is good second date?
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like you know whether or not you feel
Speaker 2: comfortable with him, do you?
Speaker 4: I was not comfortable in that moment right now?
Speaker 2: Was the way he said it like off putting because
Speaker 2: he was like judging about it or was he being
Speaker 2: number about it?
Speaker 4: He was very cool about it, as like he was
Speaker 4: just a normal person.
Speaker 2: He wasn't like going no, no, no period. We still
Speaker 2: continued the date, so I just like changed, but it
Speaker 2: were just one of those moments where I don't think
Speaker 2: I bled through my pants since.
Speaker 3: I was sixty right, how annoyed.
Speaker 4: I don't know how it happened, and I don't know
Speaker 4: why this man was there.
Speaker 3: I think I know what happened. I think we've started thinking.
Speaker 3: I think I might have scritty period because I recently
Speaker 3: and I feel like I might be pulling you in
Speaker 3: my direction.
Speaker 4: I was going to blame it on the moon, so
Speaker 4: now I'm going to blame on you because I feel better.
Speaker 4: But it was also just like me thinking about, oh
Speaker 4: my god, I was free bleeding in front of all
Speaker 4: these children in the path. Sell deal, fine, But it
Speaker 4: was just one of those second date things where like
Speaker 4: you're not meant to see that side of me yet,
Speaker 4: Like that's not meant to happen.
Speaker 3: Everyrom come that would definitely speed up.
Speaker 2: It would be intimacy. You two would now be bonded.
Speaker 3: Think how did you deal with it? You act?
Speaker 4: So I originally wanted to say this never happens, because
Speaker 4: that's what.
Speaker 3: It sounds like, happens all the time.
Speaker 4: Year old woman doesn't how to handle a period even
Speaker 4: though it doesn't happen all the time. So I was
Speaker 4: just more like, oh my god, everyone would have seen
Speaker 4: in the park, and he was like, no one would
Speaker 4: have seen it. I was only looking at you. No
Speaker 4: one else was looking. It's fine. So I was like okay.
Speaker 4: So he was like reassuring me, but I was just like,
Speaker 4: this is the worst.
Speaker 3: And then I was like off and and I was like.
Speaker 4: I just really want you to leave my I have
Speaker 4: more questions about the date.
Speaker 2: Okay, so the date consists of walk back to your
Speaker 2: place like coffee cuddle.
Speaker 4: Okay, so the date was the night before. Oh, you're right.
Speaker 3: And this was like the second phase, all right. I
Speaker 3: had to I was like, so we're back in your
Speaker 3: place and.
Speaker 4: What are we doing there?
Speaker 3: So I told you, yeah.
Speaker 4: I do too, and I was like bleeding out.
Speaker 3: But I would would have waited for you to notice yeah, and.
Speaker 2: The guy who wasn't so evolved would just be embarrassed
Speaker 2: and make an excuse and leave. Is there going to
Speaker 2: be a third date? I'm sure yes? Okay, unclear. I
Speaker 2: will allow you to rest on that. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: I appreciate my best. And I'm sad that me and
Speaker 2: Friedman's not here to hear this, because you would love this.
Speaker 2: Was I was sick last week. I was really sick.
Speaker 2: I promise, I knew you must have been really sick.
Speaker 2: I was really sick to have missed filling in for me.
Speaker 3: I would have wanted to do this out loud.
Speaker 4: I missed the spill. I had a strep throat and
Speaker 4: it was like one of those situations where I was like,
Speaker 4: I physically can't do my job with this type of illness.
Speaker 4: And it was also a sickness where I felt perfectly
Speaker 4: fine and I was just really upset with myself because
Speaker 4: you couldn't speak, because I couldn't speak, and like everything
Speaker 4: was hurting. I couldn't even drink water because it was
Speaker 4: like hurting to swallow. So I was just like doing
Speaker 4: nothing basically, And then when I came to work on Monday,
Speaker 4: I was like, I love being here, Like everything about
Speaker 4: being here is so good. Like I can talk, I
Speaker 4: can write, I can like do the scripting, I can
Speaker 4: jam with my friends, and I'm like work is actually
Speaker 4: quite fun.
Speaker 3: How long did that last? And was it less than
Speaker 3: an hour? I'm already off it, but I would love it.
Speaker 3: And you liked your job for a day.
Speaker 4: I know you like the job.
Speaker 3: I do like my job out louders. If you are
Speaker 3: following the US presidential election, which is very fast approaching,
Speaker 3: then you will have heard us talk about us scribe
Speaker 3: bar episodes with Amelia Lester. We did such a fun
Speaker 3: one this week, Holly, Amelia and I where we opened
Speaker 3: the floor to all of your questions and Amelia answer
Speaker 3: them fascinating. Will pop a link in the show notes.
Speaker 2: That is all we have time for today. Out loud As,
Speaker 2: a massive thank you to all of you for being
Speaker 2: with us all week, and a big thank you to
Speaker 2: you and Vernon. Thank you for filling in for me.
Speaker 2: It has been a pleasure to have you around. And
Speaker 2: of course a big thank you to our team Executive
Speaker 2: producer Ruth Devine, who thinks that secrets are an advantage
Speaker 2: so you can keep your partner on their toes. Our
Speaker 2: senior producer is Emmeline Gazillis, and she is a vault
Speaker 2: who will keep your secrets sacred.
Speaker 3: I believe that she keeps out sacred sacred, that's for sure.
Speaker 2: Our audio producer is Leah Porge's and she has no secrets.
Speaker 2: That's true, she has no secrets. And our social media
Speaker 2: producer is Isabelle Dolphin, who operates.
Speaker 3: On a need to know basis. She is an international
Speaker 3: woman of mystery. I always think that about Dolph.
Speaker 2: Definitely a woman of mystery.
Speaker 3: Thank you eloud Us.
Speaker 2: We'll see you next week.
Speaker 3: Goodbye, bye Sea.
Speaker 2: Shout out to any Mamma Mia subscribers listening. If you
Speaker 2: love the show and you want to support us. Subscribing
Speaker 2: to Mamma Mia is the very best way to do it.
Speaker 2: There's a link in the episode description