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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mama Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded.

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Speaker 1: On Makeup is My Therapy. I'm in love, I'm obsessed,

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Speaker 1: and I don't even feel jailty about it. Hello, I'm

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Speaker 1: Aaron Dockerty and welcome to you, beauty. You're listening to

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Speaker 1: The Formula, the show where we talk all things skincare

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Speaker 1: and newbies. If it feels like you've walked in some

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Speaker 1: weird time warp in twenty twenty five where all your

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Speaker 1: favorite celebrities suddenly look the same as they did twenty

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Speaker 1: years ago, please take a seat. It's not just you,

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Speaker 1: because it seems like we're witnessing the birth of a

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Speaker 1: brand new esthetic error, a new look appearing on the

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Speaker 1: faces of almost every celebrity you follow. Whether you're someone

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Speaker 1: who loves cosmetic surgery, has never had it, or simply

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Speaker 1: curious about it, chances are you've seen terms like a

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Speaker 1: zepic face and undetectable surgery popping up in the headline

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Speaker 1: this past year. That's why I've brought in cosmetic doctor

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Speaker 1: and specialist GP doctor Nicole Chader from Concept Cosmetic Medicine

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Speaker 1: Nicole and I go way back to when she did

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Speaker 1: a very scary sounding facial on me, but it left

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Speaker 1: me with incredibly glowing skin. But she's here because she's

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Speaker 1: going to talk us through what's actually happening in the

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Speaker 1: cosmetic world, including the shift in procedures people are having

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Speaker 1: done to their faces, if gen Z is aging prematurely,

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Speaker 1: and what's on the cosmetic front in twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 2: You are such beautiful, skilled.

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Speaker 1: But how thank you so much for coming on the

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Speaker 1: show and joining us today, Doctor Chader. It's so nice

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Speaker 1: to have you.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: It's so great to see you across from me in

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Speaker 1: our studio instead of hovering over me with scary, scary device.

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Speaker 2: It's nice to not be torturing you for once.

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Speaker 1: No, thank you so much for coming on the show,

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Speaker 1: because I have so many questions for you today. It's Virala.

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Speaker 1: I've been writing so many articles for Mama Maa on

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Speaker 1: some of the recent celebrity cosmetic trends that have been

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Speaker 1: cropping up and the shift that we're seeing towards a

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Speaker 1: certain esthetic. We've had a lot of questions from ubi's

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Speaker 1: in this area as well, so I thought what better

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Speaker 1: way than to get an expert here to talk us

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Speaker 1: through some of these new trends. I'm dying to get

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Speaker 1: your opinion on a few different kind of trends, but

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Speaker 1: I'd love to start by asking you specifically about gen

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Speaker 1: Z versus millennials in terms of aging. So there's been

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Speaker 1: a lot of conversation online. Obviously, a lot of reality

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Speaker 1: shows out there. You had like Love Island, You've got Maths,

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Speaker 1: You've got some of those reality TV stars that have

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Speaker 1: a certain look, and there's been conversation online saying millennials

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Speaker 1: are aging better than gen Z. You've commented on an

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Speaker 1: article that we wrote it Mama Mea. I want to

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Speaker 1: ask you are gen Z aging differently to millennials and

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Speaker 1: in what way.

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Speaker 2: I think they are aging differently. But you know, I

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Speaker 2: don't like to paint, you know, the brush across everybody.

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Speaker 2: Some of the things that I've noticed is that sometimes

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Speaker 2: people can get overdone, overfilled, and that can really change

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Speaker 2: the way that the face ages. Sometimes it might actually

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Speaker 2: prematurely age the face if we're doing too much, because

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Speaker 2: we're taking away from those natural cues that we see

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Speaker 2: in a face that tells us if that person's in

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Speaker 2: their twenties or in their thirties. And then there has

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Speaker 2: been another big shift that I've noticed as well around vaping.

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Speaker 2: I've always got to bring it back to the health,

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Speaker 2: and so my generation it was really pulling away from

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Speaker 2: nicotine and anything that was nicotine related because we were

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Speaker 2: being bombarded with all of the safety concerns around it

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Speaker 2: on the TV and the ads. And then that's really

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Speaker 2: died out because smoking is so rare these days. But

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Speaker 2: then of course vaping has taken over, and so people think, oh,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't smell. Everyone's doing it's really cool, and so

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Speaker 2: I'm going to do that. But actually we know that

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Speaker 2: nicotine destroys your collagen. So these things, you know, I

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Speaker 2: worry about how they impact the younger generations.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of just looking at big tobacco companies finding

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Speaker 1: another way, another way in, and you know that message

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Speaker 1: is kind of getting lost, I guess. But what's your

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Speaker 1: take on younger people and gen Z turning to different

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Speaker 1: tweakments like earlier than previous generations did. Is there such

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Speaker 1: thing as a preventative measure?

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Speaker 2: I think there is in certain circumstances. So for example,

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Speaker 2: if I've got a twenty something year old that is

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Speaker 2: working out in the sun and they're squinting a lot,

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Speaker 2: and they're starting to get really ingrained lines in their face. Well,

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Speaker 2: they're at the perfect age to start looking at some

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Speaker 2: sort of non surgical cosmetic injectibles as a preventive to

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Speaker 2: stop it from getting to a point where we can't

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Speaker 2: really do much about it because it's progressed so far,

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Speaker 2: but it really depends we have to look at it

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Speaker 2: on an individual case by case situation.

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Speaker 1: And just touching again on baping because you mentioned vaping

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Speaker 1: just before, what kind of changes would you see in

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Speaker 1: the skin that would tell you if someone's spaking or

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Speaker 1: has had of nicotindo.

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Speaker 2: So it prematurely ages, it destroys collagen, and so the

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Speaker 2: skin will look dull and it will look lifeless, and

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Speaker 2: there will be signs of early wrinkles studding to come

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Speaker 2: into the skin.

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Speaker 1: Where'd you kind of see us going from here when

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Speaker 1: it comes to gen z and that kind of like

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Speaker 1: overfilled look that we're seeing on like reality television and

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Speaker 1: things like that, do you see that going the same way?

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Speaker 2: I think what we're seeing is that we're hopefully moving

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Speaker 2: away from that and we're really getting into what has

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Speaker 2: been coined to the era of the undetectable treatments, which

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Speaker 2: I just love like, I love it so much. I

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Speaker 2: really think anything that we're doing, either whether it's non

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Speaker 2: surgical or surgical, we really want to be adding to

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Speaker 2: somebody's beauty, adding to them rather than taking away. And

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Speaker 2: if you're making things look really overdone, really field pillow face,

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Speaker 2: or really augmenting the face away from what is considered

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Speaker 2: natural beauty, we really risk that and that's we're pulling back,

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Speaker 2: which is great.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about that. The undetectable

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Speaker 1: beauty look. I think at the moment, social media is

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Speaker 1: filled with you know, celebrities like Lindsay Lowhand, Demi Moore,

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Speaker 1: Christina Aguilera, they've got that look that I can't quite

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Speaker 1: put my finger on it look. Yeah, but you know,

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Speaker 1: something's changed, but they look like decades younger than they

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Speaker 1: actually are. Tell me a little bit about this. What's

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Speaker 1: behind the shift.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a great shift. I'm really glad

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Speaker 2: for it, and I think it's focusing on the aging process.

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Speaker 2: As a holistic you have to look at things that

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Speaker 2: are going to help the skin layer. So the tablecloth

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Speaker 2: I call it, which you know, that might be laser

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Speaker 2: for example, or chemical peels. We're looking at things that

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Speaker 2: are going to stimulate collagen, so that could be injectables potentially.

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Speaker 2: We're looking at little nips and tucks, the surgical procedures

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Speaker 2: that are at the right age for that person that

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Speaker 2: can be done in a way that makes them look

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Speaker 2: really natural and effortlessly beautiful.

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Speaker 1: There's so much chatter online though about like, you know,

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Speaker 1: Lindsay Lohan had like a mini base lift or something

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Speaker 1: like that. Obviously, celebrities have access to some of the

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Speaker 1: most expensive, most advanced treatments in the world. What are

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Speaker 1: your take on what some of these celebrities might be getting.

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Speaker 1: Are they focusing on skin health the way they say,

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Speaker 1: I've just been using this really good oil, or is

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Speaker 1: it more invasive treatments that we might just not be

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Speaker 1: privy to.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think if it was me, I'd be getting everything,

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Speaker 2: So I'll leave it there. I think that it's often

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Speaker 2: in their best interest to say that they're using this

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Speaker 2: cream that they're promoting, but like, come on, you know,

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Speaker 2: we know that, as you said, they've got so much

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Speaker 2: money behind them, they've got all the connections. If it

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Speaker 2: was me, I'd be doing all the things.

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Speaker 1: I think it's kind of looking at celebrities and just

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Speaker 1: knowing that there's that whole other element, there's that whole

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Speaker 1: other side of what they can access. I think old

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Speaker 1: Lindsay had said that she was using like a certain

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Speaker 1: product and that's why her skin was looking so amazing,

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Speaker 1: and everyone was kind of like, what's the product? Like,

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Speaker 1: you know what.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it is just to speak about everything else.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, talk to me about a zenpic face. I know

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Speaker 1: this is a very broad area, but this is another

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Speaker 1: cosmetic term that's kind of been circulating around the web,

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Speaker 1: particularly in reference to celebrities who've been losing a lot

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Speaker 1: of weight. You've seen on the red carpet as well

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Speaker 1: changing face as changing bodies. Tell me a little bit

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Speaker 1: about this. What is ozen pic face? What causes it?

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Speaker 1: I want to know the details.

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Speaker 2: So I think this term ozen pic face is being

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Speaker 2: sort of coined in the media, But essentially I've got

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Speaker 2: to kind of bring it back to the medicine. So

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Speaker 2: the ozm pic is a brand and it comes from

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Speaker 2: a class of medications known as the golp one agonus.

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Speaker 2: These medications are usually injected and there's actually quite a

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Speaker 2: lot of the Mozambic being one of the brands, and

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Speaker 2: traditionally they were used for diabetes, but then of course

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Speaker 2: they've become much more popular for weight loss. The requirements

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Speaker 2: that I see when I'm seeing a patient about this

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Speaker 2: is that, you know, for somebody who's got obesity and

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Speaker 2: they've got obesity related health issues, so say, for example,

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Speaker 2: they've got insulin resistance, or they've got polycystic ovarian syndrome

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Speaker 2: or liver dysfunctional high cholesterol, we are treating the medical

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Speaker 2: issue rather than the ascetic, right, so there's they're kind

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Speaker 2: of two separate issues. What I see though, in reality,

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Speaker 2: and what we all can see on the red carpet,

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Speaker 2: is that actually people are using it for weight loss

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Speaker 2: that's not necessarily for a health need, and it can

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Speaker 2: be done in such a way that they lose significant

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Speaker 2: amounts of weight in a really, really rapid period of time.

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Speaker 2: And we know that when that happens, the skin has

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Speaker 2: not had time to adjust, and so what we often

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Speaker 2: see is the face looks hollow, the cheeks look sunken,

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Speaker 2: there's lots of jowling going on, there's lots of wrinkles,

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Speaker 2: and people just look all in all a lot.

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Speaker 1: Older, and it is this something that you're seeing in

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Speaker 1: your clinic. Are the people coming through your doors with

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Speaker 1: these kind of concerns?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yeah, it's a massive area at the moment. I

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Speaker 2: don't have the stats for Australia, but I think in

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Speaker 2: America it's like one in six people have tried one

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Speaker 2: of these medications now, so that's huge, And so when

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Speaker 2: you take that away, people do feel really distraught by

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Speaker 2: how they've aged.

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Speaker 1: I know it would obviously depend on the individual, but

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Speaker 1: what are some kind of procedures or treatments that would

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Speaker 1: be used to counteract these kind of changes in your skin?

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Speaker 2: So I think firstly we have to always look at

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Speaker 2: prevention over QRE so to prevent this from happening in

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Speaker 2: the first place. Slow and steady taking these medications under

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Speaker 2: very tight medical supervision is really important. And losing weight

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Speaker 2: that is going to be slow, sustainable and it's always

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Speaker 2: going to be better than doing something that's to be

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Speaker 2: really sudden, and it actually helps the skin adjust better

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Speaker 2: when you're doing it that way. The other thing is

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Speaker 2: making sure that you've got a good diet so that

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Speaker 2: you've got a high amount of protein, lots of plant

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Speaker 2: based foods that are really full of nutrition is going

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Speaker 2: to be helpful. Avoiding the smoking, avoiding the sun, those

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Speaker 2: sorts of things. That's the prevention. When we get to

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Speaker 2: a point where you know you've been taking the medication,

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Speaker 2: you've lost lots of weight really quickly, and the face

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Speaker 2: is looking really drawn and gaunt and saggy. There are

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Speaker 2: things that we can look at from a non surgical

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Speaker 2: point of view, and the things that we can look

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Speaker 2: at from a surgical point of view. So the non

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Speaker 2: surgical would be things that are going to reduce sprinkles,

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Speaker 2: things that are going to improve the amount of collagen,

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Speaker 2: the volume, volume replacement in the face, and then of

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Speaker 2: course if things are really quite severe within looking at

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Speaker 2: surgical face lifts, necklifts, that sort of thing.

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Speaker 1: Right, So it feels like there's like a whole different

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Speaker 1: kind of ball game that goes alongside these weight loss

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Speaker 1: drugs now, and it's not just what you're seeing on

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Speaker 1: the red carpet with celebrities, but it's happening.

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Speaker 2: Just yeah, it's happening to everybody.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, tell me a little bit about we touched on

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Speaker 1: like the Instagram face and moving away from that, overfilled,

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Speaker 1: that kind of like Kardashian level. Look, I guess that

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Speaker 1: twenty sixteen overfilled. Look what's next? Like, what's on the

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Speaker 1: horizon for twenty twenty five? What are we looking at

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Speaker 1: when it comes to cosmetic trends? Are we going to

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Speaker 1: keep going towards that path of the undetectable cosmetic surgery?

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Speaker 2: Look? Yeah, I think what I'm noticing, and I'm really

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Speaker 2: grateful for it, is people are really focused on how

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Speaker 2: they are aging. So it's not just about what's going

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Speaker 2: to look good today, but it's about how I'm going

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Speaker 2: to look in twenty years from now. And so we

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Speaker 2: know that doing things that are going to stimulate the

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Speaker 2: collagen that are going to improve ours skin, like the

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Speaker 2: laser based or heat based devices, the things that are

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Speaker 2: going to give us that longevity with our appearance is

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Speaker 2: really where things are moving towards.

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Speaker 1: I want to know what advice you'd give to someone

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Speaker 1: who is kind of like confused by all these trends.

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Speaker 1: They're looking at all the celebrity trends. They're looking at

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Speaker 1: people like Linda Lohan and you know celebrities that look

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Speaker 1: to be aging backwards. You've got Megan Fox, people with

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Speaker 1: perfect skin. What would you say to someone who's feeling

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Speaker 1: the pressure to keep up with these beauty trends but

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Speaker 1: also wants to age naturally and not dip too far

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Speaker 1: into the cosmetic scene.

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Speaker 2: So I think, first of all, get yourself a really

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Speaker 2: great practitioner. You know, there are lots of really really

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Speaker 2: good nurses or doctors out there that can guide you. Secondly,

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Speaker 2: you've got to remember that what we see on social

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Speaker 2: media is not the whole picture. People are not giving

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Speaker 2: you the full truth and so therefore it sets you

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Speaker 2: up to failure. You think, oh, I'm going to use

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Speaker 2: this great cream and it's going to fix all my problems.

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Speaker 2: It's not actually the case. They have everything at their

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Speaker 2: beck and call from the finances to know all of

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Speaker 2: the best doctors and surgeons in the world. So you've

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Speaker 2: got to, you know, give yourself a break.

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Speaker 1: Not to mention all the best filters and people edit

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Speaker 1: their photos look completely poorless and perfect.

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Speaker 2: I mean it's quite common. I'll have somebody come in

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Speaker 2: with a filtered image of somebody and say I want

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Speaker 2: to look like this rosperson, Can you get rid of

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Speaker 2: all my pause? And it's like, well, actually pause and

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Speaker 2: normal like that's something that we can't get rid of.

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Speaker 1: That's your skin.

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Speaker 2: There are things we can do to improve it, but

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Speaker 2: it's not going to be a filter perfect face.

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Speaker 1: Some very good food for thought there. I want to

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Speaker 1: move into talking about routines because there's so much buzz

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Speaker 1: around prejuvenition, starting skincare and tweakments and stuff like that early.

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Speaker 1: As we touched on before, if someone wants to maintain

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Speaker 1: good skin health without jumping into injectibles, what else should

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Speaker 1: their skincare routine include.

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Speaker 2: So I think the basics has got to be protection

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Speaker 2: because as I said before, prevention is better than cure.

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Speaker 2: And so the number one thing in Australia that is

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Speaker 2: aging us prematurely is UV. It's the sun. So making

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Speaker 2: sure that your slip slop slap, you're using sunscreen, you're

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Speaker 2: seeking shade, you're wearing a hat and staying out of

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Speaker 2: the sun. That's got to be the basis of everything.

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Speaker 1: Such an important point, I think, especially now when we're

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Speaker 1: seeing so much online. We recently had actually Hannah English

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Speaker 1: on she's a skin scientist, and we were talking about how,

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Speaker 1: you know, the younger generation seemed to me kind of

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Speaker 1: moving backwards in terms of suncare.

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Speaker 2: That's right, tanning and you know the sort of illegal

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Speaker 2: sun beds that I'm hearing about, Yeah, it's crazy. So

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Speaker 2: that would be the basis, and then there's other things

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Speaker 2: that you can add on in terms of you know,

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Speaker 2: vitamin C, vitamin BS topically for the skin. And then

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Speaker 2: of course one of my favorites is using prescription based

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Speaker 2: rhetnoic acids.

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Speaker 1: That's some really really good points that just touching on

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Speaker 1: what you would use. I know that the ubi's love

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Speaker 1: to hear what experts actually put on their faces. Can

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Speaker 1: you walk us through some of your favorite products that

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Speaker 1: you would use on the regular?

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, all right, So at the moment, one of

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Speaker 2: the sunscreens I'm really enjoying is the Airy Day Golden Glow.

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Speaker 2: I just find it sits really well under a little

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Speaker 2: bit of makeup. So that's just an easy you go

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Speaker 2: to every day for me.

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Speaker 1: I love a.

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Speaker 2: Prescription based topical retinoid so's like Trettonen. I just find

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Speaker 2: that that works really really good for my skin in

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Speaker 2: terms of you know, the anti aging, but also you

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Speaker 2: can use it as a spot treatment for a little

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Speaker 2: you know, hormonal outbreak that comes out as well.

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Speaker 1: And I think, and that's one that you obviously have

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Speaker 1: to go to your GP for to get a prescription. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and that's obviously not for everyone as well. Right, it's

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Speaker 1: a case by case kind.

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Speaker 2: Of basis, that's right. But you can get topical retinals.

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Speaker 2: That's a good place to start. Make sure that your

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Speaker 2: skin adapts well to that, and then you can always

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Speaker 2: move on to the prescription base if you like. And

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Speaker 2: then the thirdly, oh, I love sycoplast, so that's the

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Speaker 2: Laroche Posse B five. It's just amazing for any little

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Speaker 2: bit of inflammation. So people who are a little bit

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Speaker 2: roseation prone or they're just feeling their skin barrier is

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Speaker 2: just not quite right, whack that on at night and

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Speaker 2: it's just brilliant by the next day.

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Speaker 1: That's one of my faves. I love doing that, putting

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Speaker 1: it on a night and waking up the next morning

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Speaker 1: and being like, okay, everything's he was a little bit

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Speaker 1: calmed down, everything's a little bit more sooth. That's such

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Speaker 1: a good product and a favorite of the Ubis as well.

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Speaker 1: Hit You've made one of the greatest discoveries of all

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Speaker 1: time or a miss? Never again. Never. I want to

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Speaker 1: move on to our hits and misses. This is my

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Speaker 1: favorite part of the show. I want to ask you

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Speaker 1: one skincare technique, ingredient or something that you absolutely love

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Speaker 1: and would recommend, and something that you would hate.

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Speaker 2: Oh, something that I love? Yeah, okay, Well, I mean

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Speaker 2: I just love sunscreen. I'm such a nerd.

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Speaker 1: Nods are allowed, will allowed love it.

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Speaker 2: I just think it's so important. It's you know, it's

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Speaker 2: just prevention. The backbone, bone, backbone. Like, I can't I

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Speaker 2: can't stress that.

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Speaker 1: Enough because, as you mentioned before, there's one thing in

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Speaker 1: trying to repair all the damage, but it all comes

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Speaker 1: down to taking care of your skin first and doing everything.

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Speaker 2: That prevention is better than you are always that it's

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Speaker 2: a lot cheaper.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely tell me about something that you hate. Is

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Speaker 1: a skincare trend or ingredient that's like overhyped or harm

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Speaker 1: We've had a lot of controversial ones. Oh really, someone

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Speaker 1: canceled vitamin C.

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Speaker 2: Ah, okay, interesting, So I think vitamin C depends on

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Speaker 2: the skin type. Some people who are prone to irritation,

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Speaker 2: it's not going to work for them. Look, I think

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Speaker 2: I'm going to be really general. I reckon the thing

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Speaker 2: that just annoys me about skincare that I often come

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Speaker 2: across is that people are just doing too much. And

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Speaker 2: what they'll tend to find is that they buy this,

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Speaker 2: and they buy that, and then they've got, you know,

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Speaker 2: a covered full of things and they get really confused.

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Speaker 2: They're not sure what to do as they end up

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Speaker 2: not doing anything at all, you know. So it's just

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Speaker 2: trying to keep it simple. You know, we have this

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Speaker 2: saying in medicine kiss which is keep it simple, stupid, like,

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Speaker 2: just keep it simple, don't overcompish things.

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Speaker 1: Otherwise you'll be left using your sicker plast every night.

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Speaker 1: Yeah for ir retained skin doctor Chater, thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for coming on the show today and helping us

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Speaker 1: shift through all of the confusing cosmetic trends that we're

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Speaker 1: seeing in the headlines. Appreciate it. Thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for listening to this episode of View Beauty. If you've

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Speaker 1: got a topic you'd like us to discuss, or you know,

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Speaker 1: bring an expert in, let us know, send us a

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Speaker 1: message on you Beauty Instagram and we'll get someone on

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Speaker 1: the show. The producer of You Beauty is Cassie Merritt

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Speaker 1: and video production by my Lena Cacciotti. And I'll see

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Speaker 1: you tomorrow on tried and tested. Bye,