WEBVTT - The Celebrity Who Let Us See Her Worst Moment 0:00:10.287 --> 0:00:13.047 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 0:00:13.727 --> 0:00:16.767 Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:16.807 --> 0:00:23.967 that this podcast is recorded on Hello, and welcome to 0:00:24.007 --> 0:00:26.807 Mamma Mia out Loud and to our Friday show where 0:00:26.807 --> 0:00:29.287 we take a break from the news cycle and breathe 0:00:29.327 --> 0:00:33.087 out Today my friends, It's Friday, the fifth of July, 0:00:33.167 --> 0:00:35.647 and I'm Hollywaynwright, I'm Mea Friedman. 0:00:35.327 --> 0:00:36.487 And I'm Jesse Stevens. 0:00:37.247 --> 0:00:39.007 And if you want to hear more from us, why 0:00:39.047 --> 0:00:40.647 wouldn't you want to hear more from us? 0:00:41.007 --> 0:00:44.087 Well, there's a weekend ahead, so you're playing the time 0:00:44.247 --> 0:00:46.207 all this time and you're wondering what you should listen to. 0:00:46.207 --> 0:00:49.407 It was the last of season one of Mid. Do 0:00:49.487 --> 0:00:51.407 not worry if you like MID, and if you don't, 0:00:51.407 --> 0:00:53.887 why not go listen to it? But Mid is the 0:00:53.927 --> 0:00:56.927 show I host for gen X women and it's thoughtful conversations. 0:00:56.967 --> 0:00:59.567 And the last one of season one is with Christine Arnou. 0:00:59.687 --> 0:01:02.287 You know who she is. She's a bloody icon, but 0:01:02.407 --> 0:01:04.967 it's just the most amazing, frank conversation. She talks about 0:01:04.967 --> 0:01:07.807 everything from how she was so flattened by a divorce 0:01:08.287 --> 0:01:10.367 she couldn't get out of and she very much had 0:01:10.407 --> 0:01:12.007 to rely on her kids and how she thinks that 0:01:12.047 --> 0:01:14.607 was probably quite a good thing for them to see 0:01:15.047 --> 0:01:17.447 that they could look after her sometimes. She also talks 0:01:17.487 --> 0:01:20.487 about what it's like as an indigenous woman Christine and 0:01:20.727 --> 0:01:24.127 is from the Torres Strait to have two children who 0:01:24.327 --> 0:01:26.527 look very different and so the world reacts to them 0:01:26.607 --> 0:01:29.287 very differently. That was a really fascinating part of the conversation. 0:01:29.927 --> 0:01:32.927 And she also just talked about addiction, about what happens 0:01:32.927 --> 0:01:35.567 when the pop music industry decided you're too old. It's 0:01:35.607 --> 0:01:38.007 a great conversation. Go and listen to it and we'll 0:01:38.047 --> 0:01:40.087 be back. The season two have mad really quickly. 0:01:40.447 --> 0:01:44.647 I interviewed on lo Field this week. Some blokes don't 0:01:44.687 --> 0:01:46.847 do that that often, but it's always too popular. And 0:01:46.887 --> 0:01:50.407 there made some new friends. Jimmy and nath have a 0:01:50.607 --> 0:01:53.087 radio show. I honestly wouldn't even know how to listen 0:01:53.127 --> 0:01:53.567 to the radio. 0:01:53.567 --> 0:01:55.527 An I'm also I'm only laughing because I love how 0:01:55.647 --> 0:01:57.287 you're like, and I've made some new friends and now 0:01:57.327 --> 0:01:58.287 then my new best friends. 0:01:58.287 --> 0:01:58.647 I love it. 0:01:58.687 --> 0:02:01.807 I know they've then compared to Homie Nandy, but they 0:02:01.927 --> 0:02:06.407 are younger and they are like quite feminist, and Jimmy 0:02:06.487 --> 0:02:09.247 has mental health struggles. Nath has his own real life 0:02:09.367 --> 0:02:14.287 interesting story. His wife has cystic fibrosis and they're best friends. 0:02:14.287 --> 0:02:17.607 They worked together. They're really interesting and it was very 0:02:17.927 --> 0:02:20.727 sort of candid the conversation on canceled. 0:02:20.887 --> 0:02:25.287 We did Katy Perry, which is interesting news cycle. 0:02:25.407 --> 0:02:27.127 We didn't talk about that so out louders if you 0:02:27.127 --> 0:02:30.087 haven't seen that photo that's gone everywhere. She's at some 0:02:30.247 --> 0:02:35.167 fashion show and she's wearing laddered tights and nothing and 0:02:35.247 --> 0:02:37.527 an open like fur coat. 0:02:37.767 --> 0:02:40.807 Now, there have been a lot of Katie Perry controversies 0:02:40.807 --> 0:02:42.247 over the year, cause she's been around for a long 0:02:42.287 --> 0:02:43.687 time ever since, like she's. 0:02:43.607 --> 0:02:45.527 Just relaunching career relaunching. 0:02:45.687 --> 0:02:48.687 Yes, and remember obviously her Russell Brand marriage and now 0:02:48.687 --> 0:02:52.207 she's with Orlando Bloom. Anyway, so we talk about everything 0:02:52.447 --> 0:02:55.047 from her alleged feud with Taylor Swift. 0:02:55.127 --> 0:02:56.007 You might have forgotten about that. 0:02:56.087 --> 0:02:58.967 Yeah, they made up in that video clip. And I 0:02:58.967 --> 0:03:01.527 remember she did that film clip Katie Perry where whipped 0:03:01.527 --> 0:03:02.927 cream or something come out of her boobs. 0:03:02.967 --> 0:03:04.847 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we talk about all of that. 0:03:04.927 --> 0:03:06.847 It was a really really fun one. That's the most 0:03:06.887 --> 0:03:07.967 recent episode of canceled. 0:03:08.167 --> 0:03:09.967 We will put a link to all of those episodes 0:03:10.007 --> 0:03:11.967 in the show notes. Get more of us in your ears, 0:03:12.007 --> 0:03:13.047 because why wouldn't you. 0:03:13.927 --> 0:03:17.207 On today's show? Why did one of the world's biggest 0:03:17.247 --> 0:03:20.447 superstars decide to let a film crew record her very 0:03:20.607 --> 0:03:25.567 lowest times? Also recommendations which include a show that will 0:03:25.607 --> 0:03:28.967 change your mind about agen x Icon, something you can 0:03:29.007 --> 0:03:32.327 do with three generations, and the best kind of shopping, 0:03:32.527 --> 0:03:36.327 The Freak Kidd and a lesson Never learned, a very 0:03:36.367 --> 0:03:39.727 messy Miya and Jesse's Saturday Night that's this week's best 0:03:39.767 --> 0:03:42.207 and worst. But first, Mia Friedman. 0:03:42.327 --> 0:03:44.527 If you were a day of the week, what day 0:03:44.567 --> 0:03:45.047 would you be? 0:03:45.727 --> 0:03:47.887 What are you asking me? Are you asking me what 0:03:48.007 --> 0:03:49.367 my favorite time of the week? 0:03:49.407 --> 0:03:53.087 In no, so, your whole personality can be summed up 0:03:53.527 --> 0:03:54.527 by a day of the week. 0:03:54.567 --> 0:03:55.407 Can I guess yours? 0:03:55.687 --> 0:03:58.207 You can? But before you do, I'm going to come down. 0:03:59.087 --> 0:03:59.247 Yeah. 0:03:59.887 --> 0:04:01.927 So, m Vernon, who you often hear as a guest 0:04:01.967 --> 0:04:05.247 host on this podcast and who writes the Out Loud newsletter. 0:04:05.527 --> 0:04:07.407 She wrote a piece on Mamma Meir about it this 0:04:07.447 --> 0:04:09.967 week that's gone off. So you do this little quiz 0:04:10.047 --> 0:04:12.247 right If you're a Monday. You live to work and 0:04:12.287 --> 0:04:14.967 you love it. You're smart, structured, and organized. Some people 0:04:14.967 --> 0:04:17.247 would describe you as the planner in your household, and 0:04:17.287 --> 0:04:19.967 you love holding that position. If you're a Monday, you 0:04:20.007 --> 0:04:23.647 have your entire month planned out. Yeah, Tuesday, you love 0:04:23.727 --> 0:04:25.967 filling your cup. You aim for a perfect mix of 0:04:26.007 --> 0:04:28.487 fulfillment from both work and leisure. You love the feeling 0:04:28.527 --> 0:04:31.087 of achieving something, whether it be completing a big project 0:04:31.087 --> 0:04:33.727 at work or making your bed in the morning. Maybe 0:04:33.607 --> 0:04:36.247 you can also speak up for yourself, which when you 0:04:36.287 --> 0:04:39.407 think you are Wednesday. If you're a Wednesday, you are 0:04:39.447 --> 0:04:42.767 the glue of your friendship groups. Your calm demeanor allows 0:04:42.807 --> 0:04:44.567 you to be the person that everyone opens up to 0:04:45.007 --> 0:04:47.687 and feels safe with your level headed and known for 0:04:47.767 --> 0:04:51.567 never rushing into anything, you are usually the forgotten souls 0:04:51.687 --> 0:04:55.767 among the other louder personalities. I'm looking at you Thursdays, 0:04:55.807 --> 0:04:58.207 which we're about to get to. But that just makes 0:04:58.207 --> 0:05:00.687 you more powerful. One of your biggest strengths as a 0:05:00.727 --> 0:05:04.287 Wednesday is listening, making you a keeper of all the secrets. 0:05:04.367 --> 0:05:06.487 Oh you think that sounds like cute? 0:05:06.607 --> 0:05:11.687 Okay, like when ques it sounds a bit boring. Al 0:05:11.807 --> 0:05:13.167 so powerful. 0:05:13.727 --> 0:05:16.607 If you identify as a Thursday. You really wanted to 0:05:16.607 --> 0:05:19.327 be a weekend day, but didn't want to sound too obnoxious. 0:05:20.127 --> 0:05:22.647 Thursdays love a fun time, but not a long time. 0:05:22.687 --> 0:05:24.967 You want to be home by nine pm us, but 0:05:24.967 --> 0:05:27.647 if you're at a social event, you are the social event. 0:05:28.447 --> 0:05:31.207 The minute everyone finds out that a Thursday is coming, 0:05:31.367 --> 0:05:35.447 the vibe is immediately lifted. You're a master of small 0:05:35.527 --> 0:05:39.287 talk and can make anyone feel like they're interesting and funny. 0:05:39.607 --> 0:05:41.047 You know a good idea when you see it and 0:05:41.127 --> 0:05:45.567 love tapping into that creative side of your mind. A Thursday, okay, 0:05:46.047 --> 0:05:49.327 so Friday. You live your life so carefree that we 0:05:49.367 --> 0:05:51.687 never know what you're going to do next. It's extremely 0:05:51.727 --> 0:05:53.927 hard for someone to lock you down, as your calendar 0:05:53.967 --> 0:05:56.967 is filled with plan after plan every single day of 0:05:56.967 --> 0:06:00.087 the week. You love big events, the more people, the better. 0:06:00.207 --> 0:06:02.647 You struggle to juggle your social calendar and are known 0:06:02.687 --> 0:06:04.847 for being a bit spacey when it comes to remembering 0:06:04.887 --> 0:06:05.487 important theme. 0:06:05.567 --> 0:06:07.327 Well, that's true, but the rest of it. 0:06:07.687 --> 0:06:11.487 Friday is the life of the party. Saturday you're ready. 0:06:11.607 --> 0:06:15.207 Saturday's prioritize their leisure and relaxation over anything else. You 0:06:15.327 --> 0:06:17.247 work to live and love counting down the days to 0:06:17.287 --> 0:06:19.727 your next big holiday. If you're a Saturday person, I 0:06:19.767 --> 0:06:22.527 have one question for you. What's your hobby? I know 0:06:22.647 --> 0:06:24.967 you have one, maybe. 0:06:24.647 --> 0:06:25.287 On a Saturday. 0:06:25.327 --> 0:06:29.847 I like not I like you're a mad worker. 0:06:30.887 --> 0:06:37.727 I'd like you whole, but also not. Okay, final day Sunday. 0:06:37.847 --> 0:06:39.727 If someone were to throw a ball at your face 0:06:39.807 --> 0:06:41.167 right now, you'd catch it. 0:06:41.327 --> 0:06:42.047 That's none of us. 0:06:42.087 --> 0:06:44.807 I have incredible reflex because you. 0:06:44.767 --> 0:06:48.607 Are prepared for anything. Sundays are similar to Mondays, but 0:06:48.647 --> 0:06:51.767 they're not as good as an organization. You love planning 0:06:51.767 --> 0:06:53.527 your day exactly the way you want it, and you're 0:06:53.527 --> 0:06:55.527 not too bothered with anyone else. You have to have 0:06:55.607 --> 0:06:58.367 your me time and will decline any social plans if 0:06:58.367 --> 0:07:00.527 you've already carved out time for yourself. 0:07:01.087 --> 0:07:03.807 I'm just going to go vibe. My vibe when you 0:07:03.887 --> 0:07:09.367 initially asked that question was immediately Jesse. Your Thursday. And 0:07:09.407 --> 0:07:11.727 the reason I think I'm a Thursday is because I 0:07:11.807 --> 0:07:13.567 like the prospect of the end of the week without 0:07:13.567 --> 0:07:17.367 the pressure of a weekend. So I love knowing that 0:07:17.447 --> 0:07:19.927 the weekend is coming. But you don't have to plan anything. 0:07:20.007 --> 0:07:24.287 You're just living in the joy of knowing freedom, anticipatory. 0:07:24.607 --> 0:07:27.167 Yeah, my favorite day of the week is Friday for 0:07:27.167 --> 0:07:29.847 similar reasons. It's kind of better than Saturday because it's 0:07:29.887 --> 0:07:32.447 all it's the coodner, it's the promise. Anything could happen. 0:07:32.767 --> 0:07:34.567 But I'm clearly not a Friday. I want to be 0:07:34.607 --> 0:07:37.167 a Thursday. But I did a quit it online that 0:07:37.287 --> 0:07:39.607 just said I was Sunday and it said you are 0:07:39.647 --> 0:07:41.887 a funny and sweet person to be around, which sounded 0:07:41.967 --> 0:07:43.647 like patronizing bullshit, and I. 0:07:43.687 --> 0:07:47.887 Was like, no, I'm not Eric, I'm actually a Monday. 0:07:47.927 --> 0:07:49.727 I knew you were, because of course you are. 0:07:49.847 --> 0:07:50.127 Yeah. 0:07:50.167 --> 0:07:51.967 Well, the first clue is you live to work and 0:07:52.007 --> 0:07:54.567 you love it. You're smart, structured, and organized. I don't 0:07:54.607 --> 0:07:55.527 know if i'm those things. 0:07:55.887 --> 0:07:59.087 You're just sad, I think, day am. 0:07:59.127 --> 0:08:02.647 I I haven't done the quiz for you. Bloody hell? 0:08:02.687 --> 0:08:04.007 Do I have to do everything around here? 0:08:08.167 --> 0:08:09.167 My voice. 0:08:10.887 --> 0:08:16.687 Is the conductor of my life. When your voice brings 0:08:16.727 --> 0:08:23.967 you joy, my kid, check in, you're the best of yourself. 0:08:25.487 --> 0:08:26.647 I need my instrument. 0:08:28.847 --> 0:08:30.287 Sorry, sorry. 0:08:31.687 --> 0:08:32.327 Your emergency. 0:08:33.847 --> 0:08:36.847 Last Friday night, I found myself watching one hour and 0:08:36.927 --> 0:08:40.007 forty three minutes of a documentary about Selene Dion, which 0:08:40.007 --> 0:08:42.527 I didn't expect. I started it and I thought, if 0:08:42.567 --> 0:08:44.327 it doesn't get me and I won't continue it, and 0:08:44.367 --> 0:08:46.807 then I'd watched all of I am is what it's called. 0:08:47.447 --> 0:08:50.127 We are going to talk about some of the themes 0:08:50.207 --> 0:08:52.607 and more broadly, about the story of what's happened to 0:08:52.647 --> 0:08:55.447 fifty six year old Selene Dion. You've probably seen headlines 0:08:55.527 --> 0:08:58.167 about her recently, so you don't actually have to have 0:08:58.167 --> 0:09:02.967 watched the documentary. Most notably, the Canadian singer was diagnosed 0:09:03.007 --> 0:09:08.087 with an incredibly rare progressive autoimmune neurological disorder called stiff 0:09:08.127 --> 0:09:12.327 person syndrome in twenty twenty two, and for nearly two 0:09:12.367 --> 0:09:16.327 decades before her diagnosis, she was dealing with spasms and pain. 0:09:16.527 --> 0:09:18.727 She was on a lot of medication. There are points 0:09:18.767 --> 0:09:20.607 in the documentary where she talks about how much value 0:09:20.687 --> 0:09:24.887 she was taking in order to even perform. SPS affects 0:09:25.007 --> 0:09:28.407 one in one million people, twice as many women as men, 0:09:28.727 --> 0:09:32.007 and can be managed but not cured. At this point 0:09:32.327 --> 0:09:35.847 in the documentary, Dion explained what SPS is. 0:09:35.887 --> 0:09:42.327 Here's what she said, and today diagnosis SPS, which is 0:09:42.367 --> 0:09:49.247 stiff person's central It's in the muscle, it's in attendance, 0:09:49.367 --> 0:09:54.847 it's in the nerves. You can't see anything because it's 0:09:54.967 --> 0:09:57.607 not seeable. 0:09:57.647 --> 0:10:01.167 On top of how debilitating this disorder is, it has 0:10:01.487 --> 0:10:05.087 most devastatingly to her, impacted her ability to sing when 0:10:05.127 --> 0:10:07.607 she tries to sing, this is what happens. 0:10:07.567 --> 0:10:13.207 When I try to breathe. My lungs are fine. It's 0:10:13.247 --> 0:10:15.127 what's in front of my lungs. 0:10:14.807 --> 0:10:15.767 That's so rigid. 0:10:16.367 --> 0:10:18.887 It's like, I know you, that's what happens. 0:10:19.527 --> 0:10:21.447 It's like I know what I want. 0:10:21.207 --> 0:10:24.847 To do, and now you can show me. 0:10:26.367 --> 0:10:27.327 And that's what happens. 0:10:27.327 --> 0:10:28.687 And it's very difficult for me. 0:10:30.207 --> 0:10:33.607 Do you hear them to shut this? 0:10:34.687 --> 0:10:39.047 When the director Oscar nominated filmmaker Irene Taylor approached Selene 0:10:39.087 --> 0:10:42.247 Dion about the potential documentary, she actually didn't know about 0:10:42.247 --> 0:10:45.247 Dion's health. It was only later that she learned about 0:10:45.247 --> 0:10:48.967 the illness. And there are really confronting scenes in the documentary, 0:10:49.127 --> 0:10:53.447 including one depicting a seizure where Dion is moaning in pain. 0:10:53.927 --> 0:10:56.247 Taylor offered to cut the footage, but it was Dion 0:10:56.287 --> 0:10:59.127 who wanted it in. She said, I think this film 0:10:59.167 --> 0:11:01.607 can help me. I think this film can help others 0:11:01.687 --> 0:11:05.047 understand what it's like to be in my body. You 0:11:05.127 --> 0:11:08.527 both watched this documentary this week. What did you take 0:11:08.567 --> 0:11:09.127 away from it? 0:11:09.407 --> 0:11:12.767 I was heartbroken by it. I was riveted by it too. 0:11:13.007 --> 0:11:15.927 Like I wasn't a big Celendion fan, I sort of 0:11:16.007 --> 0:11:18.687 followed her. I've never really loved her music. I mean, 0:11:18.727 --> 0:11:20.727 she's obviously an incredible singer, but I've never really been 0:11:20.767 --> 0:11:23.607 a big fan of her music. But she was very 0:11:23.727 --> 0:11:27.407 much a tabloid fixture when I was in magazines. 0:11:27.447 --> 0:11:27.647 You know. 0:11:27.727 --> 0:11:30.327 She married her manager who'd known her since he sort 0:11:30.367 --> 0:11:32.047 of discovered her when she was twelve, and he was 0:11:32.127 --> 0:11:34.847 much older than her, and they had children together, and 0:11:34.887 --> 0:11:37.967 then he got throat cancer and fought that for quite 0:11:38.007 --> 0:11:41.327 a long time and died about five or six years ago, 0:11:41.647 --> 0:11:45.327 soon after they had their twins. I watched it, and 0:11:45.367 --> 0:11:50.367 I found it incredibly moving. I kept asking myself, I 0:11:50.407 --> 0:11:53.407 wonder why she did this. It was very surprising because 0:11:53.927 --> 0:11:58.087 it was completely without vanity. She had no makeup on 0:11:59.047 --> 0:12:00.847 in any of it. I mean, it was interspersed with 0:12:01.207 --> 0:12:04.527 footage of her on stage. And I was reminded of 0:12:04.527 --> 0:12:09.567 what an extraordinary talent and extraordinary voice she has, or 0:12:09.607 --> 0:12:11.647 she had, which is what's so sad and what we 0:12:11.727 --> 0:12:13.967 just heard then she was the only person who was 0:12:14.007 --> 0:12:16.647 interviewed through it, and it's shot in a very tight style, 0:12:16.887 --> 0:12:19.287 so it's very unforgiving. 0:12:19.487 --> 0:12:22.487 It's nearly all in her house as well, Yeah, which 0:12:22.527 --> 0:12:24.487 I think is a very deliberate choice, because in a 0:12:24.527 --> 0:12:28.807 way it was interspersed with all these arena shows and awards, 0:12:28.847 --> 0:12:33.647 ceremonies and performances at you know, massive, massive events, and 0:12:33.687 --> 0:12:38.207 it showed you that her life has shrunk to her 0:12:38.367 --> 0:12:41.847 living in this very palatial, obviously amazing compound in Las Vegas. 0:12:41.847 --> 0:12:43.727 I don't understand why she lives in Las Vegas, but anyway, 0:12:44.567 --> 0:12:49.647 and she's feeding her dog, she is feeding guinea pigs, 0:12:49.887 --> 0:12:53.127 she is doing medical appointments, she is with her children. 0:12:53.247 --> 0:12:58.807 Her life is now just this appointment, very small, completely 0:12:58.927 --> 0:13:02.287 different existence. And I thought that was quite powerfully shown. 0:13:02.527 --> 0:13:05.367 She's only fifty six. That I had to google it 0:13:05.407 --> 0:13:08.047 while I was watching it because I thought, hang On 0:13:08.527 --> 0:13:10.887 to have an illness of that severity at that age 0:13:10.927 --> 0:13:14.887 is just really, really sad. But in terms of why 0:13:15.127 --> 0:13:17.567 she made this documentary, I was wondering the same thing. 0:13:17.687 --> 0:13:19.967 And then there's the scene at the end which I 0:13:20.007 --> 0:13:22.287 referred to, where she has a seizure and for a 0:13:22.287 --> 0:13:24.647 lot of people, that would be your worst nightmare. Have 0:13:24.767 --> 0:13:28.087 you in that kind of state broadcast to the world. 0:13:28.127 --> 0:13:32.087 It's incredibly vulnerable, and she's not really conscious and she's 0:13:33.007 --> 0:13:35.887 in pain, like it's really scary and really full on. 0:13:36.807 --> 0:13:39.207 But I think that this is more broadly a story 0:13:39.327 --> 0:13:43.447 about chronic illness and how people who are living with 0:13:43.447 --> 0:13:46.847 a chronic illness, which is often invisible, how desperately they 0:13:46.887 --> 0:13:50.367 want to be seen. Because if you say that you 0:13:50.607 --> 0:13:53.567 have this, and in fact it often doesn't show up 0:13:53.607 --> 0:13:57.527 on scans, it's really difficult to get a diagnosis. Then 0:13:58.007 --> 0:14:00.327 I think there's this instinct to think that people aren't 0:14:00.327 --> 0:14:03.967 going to believe you, and so you want to perform 0:14:04.207 --> 0:14:07.367 or prove just how sick you are. And with someone 0:14:07.887 --> 0:14:10.687 who has this level of obligation to her fans, and 0:14:10.727 --> 0:14:14.527 I think she's horrified that towards the end of when 0:14:14.567 --> 0:14:17.647 she was most recently performing, she couldn't do it, and 0:14:17.647 --> 0:14:19.567 she would have little tricks like she would tap on 0:14:19.567 --> 0:14:21.047 the microphone and pretend that I was anars she with 0:14:21.087 --> 0:14:23.647 the microphone, or she'd point the microphone at the crowd. 0:14:24.367 --> 0:14:27.127 I think she feels such shame that she let them down. 0:14:27.567 --> 0:14:29.367 That she had to cancel her residency. 0:14:29.607 --> 0:14:29.807 Yeah. 0:14:30.327 --> 0:14:33.007 Us, this is almost a doctor's certificate to go. I 0:14:33.167 --> 0:14:36.727 need you to say how sick I am, so that 0:14:36.767 --> 0:14:38.767 you understand I never wanted to let you down. 0:14:38.887 --> 0:14:41.967 I think that's very true. Because to your point about 0:14:41.967 --> 0:14:45.407 invisible illnesses, because this is quite a long film, there 0:14:45.407 --> 0:14:47.047 are portions of it that are kind of fun. 0:14:47.207 --> 0:14:47.367 Right. 0:14:47.367 --> 0:14:49.487 She's actually a good time to hang out with Celinda 0:14:49.567 --> 0:14:53.087 on She was quite funny. She has stories. Obviously, she 0:14:53.967 --> 0:14:57.527 clearly loves what she does or what she did so 0:14:57.807 --> 0:15:00.807 much that it's almost all of her. And she takes 0:15:00.887 --> 0:15:04.447 you to her warehouse where all her wardrobe archive is, 0:15:04.527 --> 0:15:07.247 and it's clear how much she loved all that, the clothes, 0:15:07.327 --> 0:15:10.447 the shoes, her home amazing. So a lot of it 0:15:10.487 --> 0:15:13.167 is kind of fun, and there are periods of it 0:15:13.207 --> 0:15:15.287 where you kind of like, oh, she doesn't seem that sick, 0:15:15.327 --> 0:15:17.007 you know what I mean. She seems all right. She's 0:15:17.287 --> 0:15:19.727 getting around a bit, she's you know, playing with the dogs. 0:15:19.727 --> 0:15:21.327 She's going to do a little job here and there. 0:15:22.447 --> 0:15:25.247 One of the things for people who have invisible chronic 0:15:25.647 --> 0:15:29.887 illnesses is they have to still live life with this 0:15:29.927 --> 0:15:32.047 thing that no one can see, and it's very easy 0:15:32.087 --> 0:15:33.967 for people to discount it and be like, oh, well, 0:15:34.007 --> 0:15:35.847 there's nothing wrong with you, or like, oh, you seem 0:15:35.847 --> 0:15:37.967 heaps better today, you know, like, and it's kind of 0:15:38.327 --> 0:15:42.247 an assumption that there's always a positive momentum. And so 0:15:42.407 --> 0:15:45.207 when the film kind of ends, it ends with her 0:15:45.247 --> 0:15:48.167 going back to the studio and singing, and she actually 0:15:48.167 --> 0:15:51.727 sounds pretty good, and her producers are saying, oh, good 0:15:51.727 --> 0:15:53.167 on you, and she loved it, and you could tell 0:15:53.207 --> 0:15:54.927 she's all lit up by it, and then she has 0:15:54.967 --> 0:15:58.767 this terrible seizure and it's kind of showing you that 0:15:58.887 --> 0:16:01.807 this is not going away, and this is much more 0:16:01.887 --> 0:16:05.727 serious than it may represent on her body from the outside. 0:16:05.967 --> 0:16:10.927 That's interesting because stressful situations loud noises, physical touch, there 0:16:10.927 --> 0:16:13.527 are certain triggers that can trigger the spasms and the 0:16:13.567 --> 0:16:16.247 seizures and stuff that come from it, which is actually 0:16:16.647 --> 0:16:18.647 with a lot of autoimmune disorders and a lot of 0:16:18.727 --> 0:16:23.047 chronic illnesses. Anything from stress, which sounds like a really 0:16:23.127 --> 0:16:26.767 broad umbrella term, can throw the body into fight or flight. 0:16:27.207 --> 0:16:29.567 And so even though you might see these moments of 0:16:29.647 --> 0:16:32.367 someone piercing through and being able to do it, the 0:16:32.447 --> 0:16:34.567 cost is invisible to us. 0:16:34.607 --> 0:16:37.047 Because it's not even negative just negative stress. It's also 0:16:37.087 --> 0:16:37.687 positive stress. 0:16:37.687 --> 0:16:41.327 Because she was lit up by that and exerting energy, really. 0:16:41.247 --> 0:16:45.607 Stimulated by it. And also though it was interesting, she 0:16:45.647 --> 0:16:48.767 said this first happened seventeen years ago. She started noticing 0:16:48.767 --> 0:16:51.207 symptoms and she didn't know what it was, and so 0:16:51.207 --> 0:16:53.767 she said, I've been hiding it all this time, and 0:16:54.407 --> 0:16:57.487 I can't lie anymore. And I think you're right. This 0:16:57.527 --> 0:17:01.247 is her doctor's note, but also her confessional, because the 0:17:01.287 --> 0:17:05.487 emotional cost of having to maintain a lie is so 0:17:05.687 --> 0:17:08.727 high and had become unbearable for her, and she said, 0:17:09.327 --> 0:17:11.847 you know, I feel like people see me out laughing 0:17:11.847 --> 0:17:15.167 with my family and they're like, but you cancel your 0:17:15.247 --> 0:17:19.647 concert tickets. Why aren't you performing? So you're right, She's like, 0:17:19.687 --> 0:17:22.167 these are my bona fides. Look at my pain, which 0:17:22.367 --> 0:17:24.327 broke my heart. And it was at such a pivotal 0:17:24.367 --> 0:17:29.167 time in her life where she is reconstructing her identity 0:17:29.287 --> 0:17:32.727 and what is her identity if she can't sing? And 0:17:33.207 --> 0:17:35.167 one of the most poignant parts of it was when 0:17:35.167 --> 0:17:38.567 she was watching John Farnham and she was clearly a 0:17:38.647 --> 0:17:41.927 John Farnham fangirl, and they clearly had an amazing mutual 0:17:41.967 --> 0:17:45.127 appreciation and respect. And when she was touring in Australia, 0:17:45.207 --> 0:17:47.567 she brought him on stage, and by then he was 0:17:47.687 --> 0:17:51.487 already a little bit frail, and we know that since 0:17:51.527 --> 0:17:54.727 then he's battled cancer and has had to have his 0:17:54.807 --> 0:17:59.327 jaw reconstructed, and presumably he can't sing anymore either. And 0:17:59.367 --> 0:18:01.847 so you say, what happens when what you are known 0:18:01.927 --> 0:18:05.487 for and what you love the most you can't do anymore, 0:18:05.487 --> 0:18:07.487 and the existential crisis that must provoke. 0:18:07.727 --> 0:18:10.967 I wanted to ask if for any time during this 0:18:11.687 --> 0:18:15.847 you felt like saying to her stop trying, not stop 0:18:15.887 --> 0:18:17.807 trying to live and feel as well as you can. 0:18:18.287 --> 0:18:21.487 But clearly it's sort of all about this battle to 0:18:21.527 --> 0:18:24.807 get back on stage and do what she loves doing, 0:18:25.487 --> 0:18:27.607 because it is so clear that that is what she 0:18:27.647 --> 0:18:30.447 loves doing and she can't stop herself from singing all 0:18:30.487 --> 0:18:33.807 the time and wanting to do that. Was there any 0:18:33.847 --> 0:18:35.207 part of you that was kind of like. 0:18:35.207 --> 0:18:37.847 Darh'll give it up. It made me think of two 0:18:38.247 --> 0:18:41.327 other things we've spoken about this week. One was Joe 0:18:41.327 --> 0:18:46.247 Biden and when it's so clear from the outside that 0:18:46.407 --> 0:18:49.327 your perception of what you're capable of and what you 0:18:49.407 --> 0:18:52.287 might be capable of again is so far removed from 0:18:52.287 --> 0:18:56.167 what everybody else can see. And also Victoria on American's 0:18:56.167 --> 0:18:59.567 Sweethearts the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders, when it's so clear she's 0:18:59.607 --> 0:19:03.207 struggling to stay on the team and to live up 0:19:03.207 --> 0:19:04.887 to all the things she needs to be and you 0:19:04.927 --> 0:19:09.287 want to say, just hang up your pom poms and 0:19:09.327 --> 0:19:12.807 move on, but she can't. And I was just really 0:19:12.847 --> 0:19:15.487 struck by the poignancy and also the difference in the way, 0:19:15.487 --> 0:19:18.847 particularly Joe Bryden, who at the time of recording is 0:19:18.887 --> 0:19:21.607 still leading the party and has not sort of stepped 0:19:21.607 --> 0:19:24.407 aside and keeps saying I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. 0:19:25.007 --> 0:19:28.687 And Selene who like wants to show the world I'm 0:19:28.767 --> 0:19:31.167 not fine but still hopes to be fine. 0:19:31.447 --> 0:19:33.687 I'm gonna come back, And there's no world in which 0:19:33.967 --> 0:19:35.887 to her she doesn't. I don't think she can live 0:19:35.887 --> 0:19:38.687 with that. That made me wonder if it's because we 0:19:38.767 --> 0:19:42.047 are hit over the head with the resilience narrative. The 0:19:42.127 --> 0:19:45.127 stories we tell and the stories we celebrate are ones 0:19:45.327 --> 0:19:48.007 where someone is told they can't but then they do, 0:19:48.527 --> 0:19:51.367 And for most people it's actually not how life goes. 0:19:51.487 --> 0:19:55.967 There's real grace in going you're not gonna sing like you. 0:19:56.167 --> 0:19:58.327 I think that while you're trying, there's hope, and I 0:19:58.367 --> 0:20:03.047 think once you're not trying anymore, that hope is extinguished. 0:20:03.047 --> 0:20:06.207 And I think that that is something that people prolong 0:20:06.727 --> 0:20:09.247 way longer than they should, because it's should's the wrong. 0:20:09.847 --> 0:20:13.447 But I think that's almost a self preservation mechanism because 0:20:13.487 --> 0:20:16.287