Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mama Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. So I'm wearing a
Speaker 2: dress today and shoes. My dress is probably one, right,
Speaker 2: my shoes are red, so I might get two for those.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're a two point shoe lady.
Speaker 2: Because I love an interesting shoe. But then I've stopped.
Speaker 2: Whereas if I was a person, would I've looked in
Speaker 2: the mirror and gone, maybe a belt, maybe a bag,
Speaker 2: maybe a fascinator on a Monday morning. But it's accessories.
Speaker 2: How do you get good at that? Hello, and welcome
Speaker 2: to Mamma Mia. Out loud what women are actually talking
Speaker 2: about on Monday, the seventh of April. My name's Holly
Speaker 2: Wayne Wright. And no, I didn't get any of Megan's jam.
Speaker 2: If you're wondering, did you try? Yes? But I was
Speaker 2: too late. And also she wasn't shipping to Australia. This
Speaker 2: is a detail that I was not aware of before
Speaker 2: I click click.
Speaker 3: Did you consider getting it shipped to your parents to
Speaker 3: then ship it to you?
Speaker 2: Well, I was already too late because Megan's jammed. For
Speaker 2: all the naysayers, every single thing on that site sold
Speaker 2: out with inseconds. There are no flower pedals left in California.
Speaker 4: Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2: I'll keep you updated out loud. At many of you
Speaker 2: were concerned. If the situation changes and a JAM shipment
Speaker 2: should arrive, we will let you know.
Speaker 3: I'm Jesse Stevens and I just plucked a long hair
Speaker 3: out of my cheek.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 3: Does anyone else have a long hair?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, just one on this cheek?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I had one just here. I've also got a
Speaker 3: long one just here on my arm old friend.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm Amelia Lester. I enjoy hot cross barns. I'm
Speaker 4: my hot crossbarn era. Really yeah. I heat them up
Speaker 4: in the microwave for ten seconds.
Speaker 2: I hate them toasted. Gotta haven't toasted.
Speaker 4: And the funny thing is I don't normally like raisins
Speaker 4: and my sultana hater, But in a hot cross barn.
Speaker 3: What's your recommendation for the absolute best hot cross bun
Speaker 3: Like if you're going.
Speaker 4: To get my partner brought home from the shops the
Speaker 4: other week, fruits hot crusts, they're literally called fruitless inappropriate.
Speaker 2: I don't like to mess with hot cross bunds, no
Speaker 2: chop chips, none of that stuff.
Speaker 4: You just need the og Oh I knew you'd say that,
Speaker 4: but you need to try the bisco off ones.
Speaker 2: Okay, and the show today. None of this, absolutely, none
Speaker 2: of this is on the show today, Breds. We're just
Speaker 2: gone off Monday, offscript.
Speaker 4: Okay, I'm not gonna talk more about Jesse's hair.
Speaker 3: Also, get one on my chin.
Speaker 2: Okay, back in the room. Bamboozled by all the tariff
Speaker 2: talk modeled about the stock market mayen lucky for all
Speaker 2: of us, Amelia Lester is not, and she's going to
Speaker 2: explain it all to us in a way that makes sense.
Speaker 3: Well, we're plucking our chin hairs. Amelia is doing a
Speaker 3: bit of research about tariffs. Thanks God, you make.
Speaker 2: Us sound like we are anyway. Also, the new rules
Speaker 2: for women's bodies and exercise that are changing everything quickly,
Speaker 2: and the seven point rule that's going to change how
Speaker 2: you get dressed. But first, we're going to be much
Speaker 2: improved by the end of this episode. But first, Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 3: In case he missed it, Robert Erwin may or may
Speaker 3: not have bread in his pants.
Speaker 4: Wait, explain who Robert Irwin is? Because I keep seeing
Speaker 4: a photo of him. I don't fully understand.
Speaker 3: Robert Irwin is the son of the late Steve.
Speaker 4: Isn't he like five?
Speaker 3: Okay? He was born in two thousand and three, which
Speaker 3: allegedly makes.
Speaker 2: Him two years older than my daughter. No, no, no,
Speaker 2: that's wrong. No, no, my niece.
Speaker 3: It's okay, okay, because somehow years Monday, I had to
Speaker 3: google that two pieces of information. But allegedly that man
Speaker 3: is twenty one years old, and you remember him as
Speaker 3: a newborn. You remember him as a toddler with a
Speaker 3: bowl cut. Gorgeous, gorgeous, and look, he was part of
Speaker 3: a new Bonds campaign posing with a giant snake, a spider.
Speaker 3: There was a giant snake.
Speaker 2: There was a real giant, a giant snake, and there
Speaker 2: was a giant snake. Come on, he was looking.
Speaker 3: Very handsome, and we had some complicated feelings as well
Speaker 3: as triggering deep psychological crises for women and men all
Speaker 3: over the world. These photos have given way to a
Speaker 3: bread theory. Now if you look closely, which I haven't,
Speaker 3: but other people did, and therefore I read their commentary
Speaker 3: about how close the Crutchal region is allegedly very smooth,
Speaker 3: It's very even and very tidy. Jackie O, as well
Speaker 3: as a few other industry insiders, have talked about how
Speaker 3: four Underwear shoots. What they do is put a slice
Speaker 3: of white bread. I don't know why it couldn't be
Speaker 3: maybe wholemeal would be a little bumpy.
Speaker 2: I think that white bread, particularly if it's like the
Speaker 2: real white bread, you know, the really supermarketing white bread,
Speaker 2: is moldable in a way like you could roll that
Speaker 2: stuff into a ball.
Speaker 3: If you turn your.
Speaker 2: Saldo into a ball, it isn't working grainy. Wholemeal is a.
Speaker 3: Working right, No, no, no, So it's white bread. And
Speaker 3: apparently JACKIEO said that sometimes they moisturize the bread and
Speaker 3: then use it like Plato, to just go over it.
Speaker 3: So what they do is it pads out the air,
Speaker 3: provides a nice little cushion and any rough edges or
Speaker 3: bits and pieces aren't sticking out.
Speaker 2: Someone think of the penis models. I can't be comfortable.
Speaker 3: I know, what are you to do with the bread?
Speaker 4: Speaking of Hot Cross parks.
Speaker 2: I have never seen so many women lose their minds
Speaker 2: so quickly as when those pictures came out on Friday morning.
Speaker 2: It's really strange because women of all ages feel unsure
Speaker 2: about it. But he's twenty one. As we've established like,
Speaker 2: he's allowed to have it, allowed to show us as pants.
Speaker 3: He's very handsome and he's really big in the US.
Speaker 2: His bonds are going to be selling lots of pants
Speaker 2: in the US, is what you're trying to say?
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly right, go bonds. Then Australian success story are over.
Speaker 3: What about the tariffs exactly?
Speaker 2: How is that gonna work merely less to save us
Speaker 2: from our purient selves?
Speaker 4: Please? So, in case you hadn't heard, last Wednesday was
Speaker 4: Liberation Day. Feeling good everyone? That was the day Donald
Speaker 4: Trump announced tariffs on every country in the world except
Speaker 4: North Korea and Russia, and including countries that are just
Speaker 4: inhabited by penguins. But we'll get to the penguins later. First,
Speaker 4: I want to see if you, Holly and Jesse, had
Speaker 4: any questions about tariffs that you were afraid to ask, because,
Speaker 4: let's face it, none of us thought we'd be sitting
Speaker 4: here thinking this much about tariff.
Speaker 2: Can we start at the very basic yes, what is
Speaker 2: a tariff?
Speaker 4: A tariff is a tax on an import that is
Speaker 4: paid by the company that imports the good is.
Speaker 3: The idea that Trump's like, we're going to incentivize Americans
Speaker 3: to make their own stuff. What's the purpose behind all
Speaker 3: of this?
Speaker 4: Such a good idea, Jesse. What we think the purpose
Speaker 4: is is that he wants to get back to a
Speaker 4: stage where Americans were making more things. So, yes, not
Speaker 4: a stage when there was more manufacturing. A couple of
Speaker 4: issues with that. First, robots do most manufacturing now, not humans, ok,
Speaker 4: because we live in twenty twenty five. And the second
Speaker 4: problem is that everything from the phone that listeners are
Speaker 4: probably listening to this on to the clothes that we
Speaker 4: are wearing, they all depend on these really complex supply
Speaker 4: chains these days. So the idea that you can just
Speaker 4: isolate the making of the good from all the stuff
Speaker 4: that goes into the good doesn't really work right.
Speaker 2: So what you're saying is the phone or the pen
Speaker 2: or the whatever that we're importing into America probably has
Speaker 2: lots of things in it that have to be imported
Speaker 2: to the place where it's manufactured. There are tariffs on
Speaker 2: all those things. Then we sell the pen to America, Yes,
Speaker 2: we have to pay a tariff to do that. Yes,
Speaker 2: he wants to make it more expensive to import your
Speaker 2: things into America, so that foreign things are more expensive
Speaker 2: in America.
Speaker 4: Yeah, correct, that's correct. So here's like two concrete examples.
Speaker 4: So computers and phones depend on semiconductors, which are made
Speaker 4: by basically made by two countries, Taiwan and the Netherlands.
Speaker 4: America's starting to try and make them, but they're really
Speaker 4: only made by those two countries, which by the way,
Speaker 4: have huge tariffs on them. So your phones and your
Speaker 4: computers are about to get more expensive. So here's a
Speaker 4: really salient example for why terra don't really make sense.
Speaker 4: Botswana has now had these tariffs imposed on it by
Speaker 4: the US of forty percent. Botswana mostly imports to the
Speaker 4: US diamonds. The US can't just make diamonds in a
Speaker 4: factory because they're found in the ground. They're not something
Speaker 4: you can make, and so it's just going to end
Speaker 4: up making diamonds more expensive coming into the US and
Speaker 4: not have any actual impact on anything else. So I
Speaker 4: think a lot of people didn't know what a tariff
Speaker 4: was when Trump started talking about this, and I don't
Speaker 4: really blame them because tariffs were last popular about a
Speaker 4: century ago in the nineteen thirties and twenties, and.
Speaker 2: They were popular because it was seen as being let's
Speaker 2: make sure that the importers are paying US. I don't
Speaker 2: understand why they would be popular when they just make
Speaker 2: everything more expensive.
Speaker 4: So here's a really interesting theory that I've heard about
Speaker 4: why people liked the idea of the tariffs. It's basically
Speaker 4: got to do with gender. American unemployment is really low
Speaker 4: rate now. It's around four percent, which is about as
Speaker 4: low as you can possibly get. When Trump started talking
Speaker 4: about bringing back my manufacturing jobs to America, he was
Speaker 4: basically acting as though the entire services industry. By services,
Speaker 4: I don't just mean restaurant workers, I mean anyone who
Speaker 4: doesn't make a thing but instead provides a thing, provides
Speaker 4: a service that doesn't exist. And the reason why the
Speaker 4: manufacturing pitch was popular is because men work in manufacturing
Speaker 4: the services industries. Women also work in services industries. So
Speaker 4: what he's really saying is enough of the jobs for women,
Speaker 4: I want more jobs for men.
Speaker 2: And I've also heard him say that he wants other
Speaker 2: countries to maybe move their manufacturing to the US to
Speaker 2: try and avoid the tariffs. Is that right? So he's like, Taiwan,
Speaker 2: come build your stuff in America, employ Americans and then
Speaker 2: you get around the tariffs. But surely you can't just
Speaker 2: click your fingers and build a factory and make it
Speaker 2: all work within the next electoral term.
Speaker 4: Yeah, factories take a long time to build. But we
Speaker 4: also get back to the problem that the world economy
Speaker 4: relies on the idea that some people have stuff that
Speaker 4: others people want, and an example of that is going
Speaker 4: to be beef. So let's listen to what he had
Speaker 4: to say about Australian beef.
Speaker 6: Australia bands and they're wonderful people and wonderful everything, but
Speaker 6: they ban American beef. Yet we imported three billion dollars
Speaker 6: of Australian beef from them just last year alone. They
Speaker 6: won't take any of our beef. They don't want it
Speaker 6: because they don't want it to affect their farmers. And
Speaker 6: you know what, I don't blame them, but we're doing
Speaker 6: the same thing right now. Starting about midnay tonight, they
Speaker 6: would say.
Speaker 4: Okay, I've gone deep on the beef question. Australia does
Speaker 4: ban us beef imports. You want to know why it
Speaker 4: does that. It was really worried about disease about twenty
Speaker 4: years ago, but now it also bans it because the
Speaker 4: US has live cattle imports from Canada and Mexico, Australia
Speaker 4: really knows exactly what has happened to its beef from
Speaker 4: cow to burger. It can trace exactly from the cow
Speaker 4: to the burger what happened along the way. The US
Speaker 4: can't do that because it's still getting cows from Canada
Speaker 4: and Mexico, and so it can't track the whole way
Speaker 4: and assure its safety the whole way.
Speaker 3: So what is this actually going to do to the
Speaker 3: US economy, Because it feels like people are panicking.
Speaker 4: McDonald's in the US uses a lot of Australian beef.
Speaker 4: The reason is because the US government has said, hey,
Speaker 4: if you make a burger, it has to have less
Speaker 4: than thirty percent fat content. This is one of the
Speaker 4: US government's big edicts. And American beef is really fatty
Speaker 4: because it's grain fed. Australian beef is lean because it's
Speaker 4: grass fed. The US is like, let's get some Australian
Speaker 4: beef in here, three billion dollars worth of it to
Speaker 4: help make our hamburger patties, because they literally can't make
Speaker 4: the hamburger patties in the way that the US government
Speaker 4: says it has to without the beef from Australia and
Speaker 4: some other country. We's got great Australia, great beef. So
Speaker 4: now Trump, who loves burgers and loves McDonald's burgers by
Speaker 4: the way, is going to see his big Max get
Speaker 4: really expensive.
Speaker 2: It's good to hear that we're wonderful everything here in Australia,
Speaker 2: as he says. But to Jesse's point about what this
Speaker 2: is going to do to the economy, it feels like
Speaker 2: since Liberation Day we've just heard markets in free fall
Speaker 2: global wall. Can the rest of the world kind of
Speaker 2: pretend that America doesn't exist and go kind of all right,
Speaker 2: you and your tariff system is going to create mayhem.
Speaker 2: So we're just going to turn to other trading partners.
Speaker 2: We're just going to look at other markets, like can
Speaker 2: we put our fingers in ours and go la la la?
Speaker 3: Is my question?
Speaker 4: It's a great question, I think sort of. So the
Speaker 4: ABC's Alan Kohler, he's actually argued exactly what you're saying here, Holly.
Speaker 4: He has said that there's nothing for Australia to negotiate
Speaker 4: with the US because it doesn't put tariffs on American imports.
Speaker 4: So there's nothing to say, hey, we'll stop putting a
Speaker 4: tariff on this if you do this. And Albanezy has
Speaker 4: said on beef and pharmaceuticals because of the pharmaceutical benefits scheme,
Speaker 4: America is also mad at Australia about cheap drugs that
Speaker 4: Australia imports. He's said, these are not up for discussions.
Speaker 4: So if you take beef and pharmaceuticals off the table,
Speaker 4: there's nothing really for Australia to bargain with the US on.
Speaker 4: So we kind of just have to get on with
Speaker 4: it as though it wasn't happening. And I think for
Speaker 4: the most most part, the analysis is that the Australian
Speaker 4: economy and the things that we export are going to
Speaker 4: be fine. Cars are going to get more expensive. That's
Speaker 4: kind of unavoidable because Australia, yes, because cars have parts
Speaker 4: from all over the world, so all of those countries
Speaker 4: that's going to be a problem for them. But wine, beef, pharmaceuticals,
Speaker 4: these are all big exports of Australia. For the most part,
Speaker 4: they say that they're going to find other markets to
Speaker 4: sell to. The beef exporters have said they're going to
Speaker 4: go to Europe, Europe needs a lot of beef for
Speaker 4: steak tatar.
Speaker 3: So what do Americans think about this right now? Like
Speaker 3: is there a general sense there of whether they some
Speaker 3: people still sported of tariffs, or now that they know
Speaker 3: what it actually looks like, has the tide turned.
Speaker 4: I don't think they yet know what it's actually going
Speaker 4: to look like, because if you think about like how
Speaker 4: global shipping and everything works, like the goods that you're
Speaker 4: buying today were probably brought into the country months ago,
Speaker 4: So it's not as if the prices are going to
Speaker 4: immediately skyrocket, but it's just going to be like in
Speaker 4: a year's time, an iPhone or a big mac is
Speaker 4: going to cost so much more for the average American
Speaker 4: than they used to. And I think that's when the
Speaker 4: pain's really going to hit. And what about the penguins, Oh,
Speaker 4: what about the penguins. So you've probably been seeing memes
Speaker 4: of penguins who are mad at Donald Trump, and this
Speaker 4: is because he did put a ten percent reciprocal tariff
Speaker 4: on the herd of McDonald Islands. These are actually Australian
Speaker 4: Maxternald territories near Antarctica. These are home to penguins, seals, glaciers,
Speaker 4: no humans. The only way you can get there is
Speaker 4: by a two week voyage on a boat from Perth.
Speaker 4: But the penguins do have a ten percent tariff that
Speaker 4: they're going to have to pay what the penguins are exporting.
Speaker 2: In a moment, the conversation about women's health has changed everything.
Speaker 2: Exercise early before you eat anything, put off that first
Speaker 2: meal until noon, don't eat after five. Cardio is king.
Speaker 2: If you've had a loop track of body and exercise
Speaker 2: rules playing in your head for decades, please allow us
Speaker 2: an enormous record scratch through the whole thing, because it,
Speaker 2: like everything we know about women's health is changing quickly.
Speaker 2: Dr Stacy Simms is an exercise physiologist and nutrition scientist
Speaker 2: from Stamford University in the States, and she has been
Speaker 2: doing the rounds of some podcasts lately, blowing people's minds
Speaker 2: with her insights into why it is that if you
Speaker 2: and a man in your life, and there'll be a
Speaker 2: lot of listeners who recognize this situation, if you and
Speaker 2: a man in your life embark on some kind of
Speaker 2: health and fitness challenge at the same time, On like
Speaker 2: day five, he's boasting about all his results and you're
Speaker 2: still slogging waiting for something to change. On about day twenty,
Speaker 2: Dr Simms knows why this is and she went on
Speaker 2: Mel Robbins of Yes Let Them Fames podcasts last week
Speaker 2: and spelled out some truths about it. Her mantra is
Speaker 2: women are not small men, and she says that the
Speaker 2: exercise industry just shrinks and pinks what works for dudes
Speaker 2: to work for women and it doesn't, for example, exercising
Speaker 2: first thing in the morning. Last week, Dr Sims went
Speaker 2: on Mel Robins's podcast, Yes They Let the Woman and
Speaker 2: spelled out some new rules. Here's male's first question about
Speaker 2: what's different between men and women's workouts.
Speaker 7: What's the most common mistake that women make by following
Speaker 7: male centric fitness advice. Women's bodies don't respond well to
Speaker 7: facet training. What's fast training?
Speaker 2: I don't even know what the heck this is?
Speaker 4: Like.
Speaker 7: Fast training means you're not having any food before you
Speaker 7: go do exercise. It comes really to the brain, right,
Speaker 7: So when we start looking just at first thing you
Speaker 7: get up, and our responses are different, where women's brains
Speaker 7: will start going, Okay, where's the food to come in
Speaker 7: to help bring my stress hormones down? And get me
Speaker 7: started for the day, okay, And men, by the nature
Speaker 7: of being x y, their brains like, eah, okay, I'm
Speaker 7: going to supply some amino acids and some blood sugar
Speaker 7: and let's get on with the day. Then we'll find
Speaker 7: some food. But women's brain, specifically what we call the
Speaker 7: hypothalamus that is really sensitive to blood sugar and food
Speaker 7: coming in. So if you get up and you start
Speaker 7: your exercise without any food, the hypothalamus is like, wait
Speaker 7: a second, this is a stress to the body that
Speaker 7: I need to really try to figure out. But if
Speaker 7: I don't have food to counter the fuel that the
Speaker 7: muscles are needing from a contraction, I need to find
Speaker 7: a way to supply that fuel. And one of the
Speaker 7: first things that starts to get broken down is you're
Speaker 7: a muscle mass.
Speaker 2: What Dr sim says women should get up early if
Speaker 2: they're going to exercise, and lots of women exercise first
Speaker 2: thing in the morning because stealing the time from sleep
Speaker 2: is the only time available to them. And eat something anything,
Speaker 2: something small and protein rich. She actually on that she
Speaker 2: talks about making this little like coffee chee putting that
Speaker 2: she puts in the fridge overnight. But she likes coffee,
Speaker 2: which is a good thing. Beef, Yeah, beef would be great,
Speaker 2: especially if it was tarte, but a few spoonfuls of yogurt,
Speaker 2: half a banana whatever, she says, do that. She also
Speaker 2: reaffirmed what women everywhere are being told over and over,
Speaker 2: which is, it's not about cardio friends, it's about weights.
Speaker 2: She says, heavy ones in short reps. Then she also
Speaker 2: said that the fitness bro favorite of I spats are
Speaker 2: also not ideal for women, that we don't cope with
Speaker 2: that level of cold so well, but we love heat,
Speaker 2: so son as a great And then in excellent news
Speaker 2: for lazy girls, she says we're probably exercising too much.
Speaker 2: Ten minutes hard out in the morning is probably plenty
Speaker 2: as long as it involves lifting heavy weight, says Sims. Okay,
Speaker 2: Jesse and Amlia, are you excited or confused about the
Speaker 2: fact that everything we've been told about exercise is probably wrong?
Speaker 3: I find this really exciting. It made me realize listening
Speaker 3: to conversations like this are almost a bit discombobulating, because
Speaker 3: it feels like, for the first time, we're talking about
Speaker 3: women's exercise outside the framework of weight loss, like as
Speaker 3: as something to do with our bodies and functionality, which
Speaker 3: is not what was happening ever in the history of ever.
Speaker 3: And so I'm finding the research field fascinating because we're
Speaker 3: here caring tidbits like even I remember hearing, obviously with
Speaker 3: the rise of the matildas and the really exciting popularity
Speaker 3: of female sport, that things like ACL injuries for women
Speaker 3: are way higher than men. And they think that could
Speaker 3: be to do with a myriad of factors, but one
Speaker 3: of them is hormonal fluctuations, which means that you could
Speaker 3: tailor training so that you go, all right, we don't
Speaker 3: do this particular thing during this particular moment, whatever it is,
Speaker 3: so that women don't get as injured. While that is
Speaker 3: all really exciting, I guess my only thing when I
Speaker 3: go really deep on this, is that it's worth us
Speaker 3: remembering that doctor Simms is an expert who has for
Speaker 3: most of her career worked with elite athletes. And if
Speaker 3: we find this alienating or overwhelming, that's okay, because we're
Speaker 3: not elite athletes. My concern with exercise is always that
Speaker 3: we might throw too much information at women and then
Speaker 3: overwhelm them. And my reaction to overwhelm is to do nothing.
Speaker 3: So if I'm in a routine and then I get
Speaker 3: told you're doing it wrong, then I'm kind of like, well,
Speaker 3: screw it. I don't want to walk into a gym
Speaker 3: and be confused about what to do. I mean, the
Speaker 3: headline is movement is great, and I think that our
Speaker 3: bodies almost instinctively know, like it does feel good to
Speaker 3: be able to lift things.
Speaker 2: I think it's also who she's talking to is actually,
Speaker 2: apart from elite athletes, a specific kind of woman who
Speaker 2: is already exercised exact right. So she's talking to the
Speaker 2: people who do think that doing heavy cardio all the
Speaker 2: time has always been the way to get the ideal
Speaker 2: in inverted Comma's female body. And what she's saying, and
Speaker 2: lots and lots of other experts are saying, is that
Speaker 2: actually that's bad for our bodies in terms of it's
Speaker 2: going to make our bones more brittle than all of
Speaker 2: those things, and that strength is key, but a merely
Speaker 2: Sometimes I feel like Jesse with the overwhelmed, Like even
Speaker 2: the thing as simple as eat something first thing in
Speaker 2: the morning, that's not how my morning world works. So
Speaker 2: now I'm like, oh God, how do I fit in
Speaker 2: having a breakfast ready at six point thirty in the morning,
Speaker 2: when I'm going out to do my exercise. What do
Speaker 2: you think? Is itwhelming? Is it helpful? And also how
Speaker 2: do I do that an tips?
Speaker 4: I am someone who gets very angry very easily. You
Speaker 4: know how some people say, oh, I forgot to eat
Speaker 4: lunch today. Never happens, never, never happened never, So I
Speaker 4: always need to eat a hot cross fun when I
Speaker 4: get up. If you haven't noticed, that's a bit of
Speaker 4: a theme here.
Speaker 3: It sounds like you're just very in touch with your body.
Speaker 4: And I love carbs, but I think that this emphasis
Speaker 4: on saunas and heat is really interesting. I lived in
Speaker 4: Japan for a few years and I learned there about
Speaker 4: the joys of the on sand, which is communal bathing.
Speaker 4: And then I realize that basically every single culture around
Speaker 4: the world, except for Anglo cultures, emphasize the importance of
Speaker 4: communal bathing and the importance of heat specifically in that
Speaker 4: communal bathing experience. So in Japan, obviously it's a big thing.
Speaker 4: In career, it's a big thing.
Speaker 2: In Europe esture everywhere.
Speaker 4: Except for in Anglo cultures. And so I do have
Speaker 4: a friend who we used to get together for a
Speaker 4: and now we get together for a spot of sauna instead,
Speaker 4: and then we get in a groni afterwards, because we're human.
Speaker 4: But I think it's a really great way to socialize
Speaker 4: as well with other women, is to go to a
Speaker 4: sauna or to have that kind of experience. And I've
Speaker 4: noticed that those more casual, more financially accessible saunas are
Speaker 4: popping up all over the place, and I think it's
Speaker 4: for that reason. I did try cold plunge once. Have
Speaker 4: you ever tried a cold plunge?
Speaker 2: I never have, except, you know, just by accident when
Speaker 2: the hot water.
Speaker 4: Was at We've talked on this show about the wim
Speaker 4: Half method, and obviously wim Half himself is a controversial figure.
Speaker 4: But I did try the cold plunge and it actually
Speaker 4: led to the best sleep I've ever had in my life.
Speaker 4: But then I subsequently heard, and then this was born
Speaker 4: out in this podcast interview that for women in particular,
Speaker 4: you don't need to get into freezing cold water to
Speaker 4: get the health benefits. You can actually get into water
Speaker 4: that's around fifteen degrees celsius, which is actually pretty durable
Speaker 4: just in the morning when you get in the shower
Speaker 4: to have a bit of a cold shot in the shower.
Speaker 4: So I think thinking about being healthy is not just exercise,
Speaker 4: but also these other ways you can integrate health into
Speaker 4: your life is a good thing.
Speaker 2: I think you're right Jesse two about not getting too
Speaker 2: hung up about the rules. We all love rules, right
Speaker 2: because it makes things simpler. But I know loads of
Speaker 2: women and I at times in my life have loved
Speaker 2: when I used to do boot camp. Let's be clear
Speaker 2: about how many years ago. This was quite a few,
Speaker 2: but remember when I went through that phase of doing
Speaker 2: six am boot camp at the beach in Sydney, and
Speaker 2: that was a co ed situation and I loved that,
Speaker 2: like I loved doing all the ropes and all those
Speaker 2: things with the guys. And I know I've got lots
Speaker 2: of female friends who love doing hard cardio in mixed environments.
Speaker 2: I don't think we have to be so literal about
Speaker 2: this kind of advice that we go, well, it's great
Speaker 2: that we're learning more about women's bodies now we have
Speaker 2: to exercise completely separately in a completely different way and
Speaker 2: doing everything entirely differently. I think it's more about taking
Speaker 2: the bits that work for you.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, Because even I've seen it become more and
Speaker 3: more specialized, and again, doctor Simms literally has a degree
Speaker 3: in this. It gets more and more specialized, and then
Speaker 3: it gets into the cycle, and I've seen a lot
Speaker 3: of these like cycle sinking workouts where people talk about
Speaker 3: what you do on day one and day two. If
Speaker 3: that works for you, absolutely, to me, way too complicated.
Speaker 3: I'm not even in touch with if I have my
Speaker 3: period right now, let alone what day I am and
Speaker 3: whether I should lift a weight.
Speaker 4: And also, you don't need more excuses for not.
Speaker 3: Going exactly, I don't feel like I need that, And
Speaker 3: I've seen it co opted by people who don't have
Speaker 3: access to the science and then provide these workout routines
Speaker 3: that it basically makes women feel like you need a
Speaker 3: degree in order to show up to the gym, and
Speaker 3: I don't think that's the best thing. I listened to
Speaker 3: the Quickie this morning where they were talking about some
Speaker 3: of these findings, and the stuff about how during puberty
Speaker 3: a woman's center of gravity changes was fascinating because we
Speaker 3: know that women's or girls rather their involvement in sport
Speaker 3: drops off, which is due to a lot of reasons.
Speaker 3: Center of gravity. This thing about you might actually fear
Speaker 3: less balanced, or if you're playing netball every week, then
Speaker 3: you kind of don't feel like yourself. That kind of
Speaker 3: research feels fundamental and really important. And I thought this
Speaker 3: during pregnancy because people say, you know, I said to
Speaker 3: my obsetrition, can I keep exercising? And in fact the
Speaker 3: advice he gave me was make sure you eat before.
Speaker 3: That's really important during pregnancy. And they say to do
Speaker 3: what you've always done, not do anything too differently. But
Speaker 3: with pregnant bodies, they're even less studied. It's like women's
Speaker 3: body is not touched. Pregnant bodies everything from medication to
Speaker 3: and what it results in, which is a good thing,
Speaker 3: is complete risk aversion. But also us not knowing if
Speaker 3: that antidepressant or that bla or that blah impacts the body,
Speaker 3: because how do you study it.
Speaker 2: There are good reasons for this, right from patriarchy in sexism,
Speaker 2: which is obviously part of it, but also I heard
Speaker 2: plenty of experts say it's hard to get control groups
Speaker 2: of pregnant women for very obvious reasons. These seem like
Speaker 2: problems that be able to be solved in this day
Speaker 2: and age.
Speaker 4: There's also the age issue. I mean I feel like
Speaker 4: the way I exercised in my twenties, I went through
Speaker 4: a brief orthorexic period of running seven miles a day
Speaker 4: and not eating anything until lunchtime. I couldn't even do
Speaker 4: that now if I wanted to. And so I think
Speaker 4: that notion of being gentle on yourself from what you
Speaker 4: could do earlier in your life versus what you can
Speaker 4: do now is really important as well.
Speaker 3: That it changes throughout a lifetime. She is also one
Speaker 3: of the women who's working on this menstrual blood test stuff.
Speaker 3: You guys, did we talk about this on the shdow
Speaker 3: she's working on. For example, if you don't live anywhere
Speaker 3: near a doctor, she wants us to be able to
Speaker 3: test our menstrual blood and see what we can find
Speaker 3: out about our health. She's a very impressive foll.
Speaker 4: Jermaine Grew said we should taste our menstrual blood.
Speaker 2: Yes, she did, familiar with it, make friends with it,
Speaker 2: spread it on your hot crossbond.
Speaker 3: Before we move on. This is actually why we made well.
Speaker 3: So there is a brand new mum maya podcast about
Speaker 3: women's health. Focuses solely on women's health for this reason
Speaker 3: that women bodies have been understudied, and we're full of questions.
Speaker 3: So look, it is so brilliant. It is with Claire
Speaker 3: Murphy and doctor Mariam. And I must say I am
Speaker 3: sending Claire questions. I sent hers something this week being
Speaker 3: like for well, for well, because I want you to
Speaker 3: explain it to me, tell me whether it's true. There
Speaker 3: is a link in the show notes.
Speaker 8: Took just over a week for the first major backflip
Speaker 8: of the federal election campaign, Peter Dutton sensationally scrapping plans
Speaker 8: to stop at public servants working from home. That oppositionally
Speaker 8: it joins us Live now from Adelaide, Pete, good morning
Speaker 8: to you. Conveniently you're in the city of churches. Will
Speaker 8: you be asking for forgiveness from female voters?
Speaker 9: I think I am today. Look, I think we've made
Speaker 9: a mistake in relation to this policy, seruh, and I
Speaker 9: think it's important that we say that and recognize it.
Speaker 9: And our intention always was to make sure that we're
Speaker 9: taxpayers are working hard and their money is being spent
Speaker 9: to pay wages. It's been spent efficiently, and that of
Speaker 9: course will always be the case. We want to spend
Speaker 9: taxpayers money efficiently.
Speaker 2: If you see one election headline today. It's probably this
Speaker 2: one that Peter and backflipped on his famed war on
Speaker 2: working from home. We talked about this a few shows
Speaker 2: ago about how it seemed like one of the battle
Speaker 2: lines being drawn between the two major parties was about
Speaker 2: working from home and flexibility and where you work. And
Speaker 2: it seemed at the time like the Coalition were taking
Speaker 2: a bit of a leaf out of the Trump Doge
Speaker 2: playbook and threatening to cut thousands of public service jobs
Speaker 2: while also ushering government workers. That's a very broad term
Speaker 2: government workers, but it's been thrown around a lot. Back
Speaker 2: to the office five days a week. First of all,
Speaker 2: it was all public servants, then it was just the
Speaker 2: ones in camera the other side labor quite successfully. It
Speaker 2: seems painted this as Donne being anti flexible work in general,
Speaker 2: even though he never said that, and being the kind
Speaker 2: of boss who forced you back into the office no
Speaker 2: matter what, whether you wanted to come or not. But
Speaker 2: it turns out Australia isn't America and people didn't love it.
Speaker 2: In fact, they didn't love it so much that Dutton
Speaker 2: did do this backflip in inverted commas, which is something
Speaker 2: that general politicians avoid. But do we love it when
Speaker 2: a politician says, we got that wrong.
Speaker 3: I quite like this. I liked it, you know, to
Speaker 3: admit to making a mistake rather than digging heels in
Speaker 3: because you want to stick to something you said. I
Speaker 3: think looking at the data and the information and the
Speaker 3: feedback which they got a lot of, and going yeah, right,
Speaker 3: you've got a point and then they pivot seems like
Speaker 3: a good thing. I also feel as though they have
Speaker 3: noticed that any connection or association between a Dutton government
Speaker 3: and a Trump presidency is not going down well with
Speaker 3: the Australian public. So we interviewed on the project last
Speaker 3: night Samantha Maiden, who was saying that the dad vote
Speaker 3: is apparently critical in this election, and in terms of
Speaker 3: what dads care about, it's Medicare, it's climate change, and
Speaker 3: they don't like this Dutton position on working from home.
Speaker 3: It's not popular. Whereas in the US there's a swing, right,
Speaker 3: we're actually seeing the opposite in Australia.
Speaker 4: I have a theory as to why this work from
Speaker 4: home or bringing workers back to the office push has
Speaker 4: not worked in Australia. Basically, you know, the premise is
Speaker 4: that government workers aren't working hard enough. They're bludgers. They
Speaker 4: are at home. They're not delivering for taxpayers. When I
Speaker 4: moved back here after a few years away last June,
Speaker 4: one thing that really struck me was that I'd go
Speaker 4: to the doctor. I'll take my kid to the doctor,
Speaker 4: and then a couple of days afterwards, I will get
Speaker 4: a payment from Medicare in my bank account. This blew
Speaker 4: my mind. I cannot tell you how unusual this is
Speaker 4: in the United States. The only time you hear from
Speaker 4: government in the United States for most people is when
Speaker 4: you have to pay your taxes and they come to
Speaker 4: you and say, this is how much money you owe us.
Speaker 4: The notion that the government is putting money into my
Speaker 4: bank account without me having to do any paperwork to
Speaker 4: get it there is completely alien.
Speaker 3: So my like those guys, I like the people giving
Speaker 3: me my mind.
Speaker 4: My theory is that Australians are seeing and feeling how
Speaker 4: government is working for them, even in something as seemingly
Speaker 4: trivial as that little payment from Medicare when you go
Speaker 4: to the doctor. Now, I know that that's also been
Speaker 4: minimized over time, and that Medicare has become a shell
Speaker 4: of its former self, but nonetheless you're still getting that
Speaker 4: money in your bank account. In the US, you don't
Speaker 4: see how government works for you. You only see government
Speaker 4: saying you owe me this much for your taxes.
Speaker 2: I think it's right. I think the government worker bashing
Speaker 2: that's been going on, and we had lots of out
Speaker 2: louders when we spoke about it last time, like really
Speaker 2: upset about that. It's such a ridiculously broad term that
Speaker 2: pulls in so many different kinds of jobs, and this
Speaker 2: broad bashing of it. I think that what Australians here
Speaker 2: when they hear cutting government worker jobs is they think
Speaker 2: longer wait time, shittier service, all that stuff. And I
Speaker 2: think that kind of anti Canberra drain, the swampy kind
Speaker 2: of thing just doesn't play here, which is really interesting.
Speaker 3: After the break the seven point fashion rule that will
Speaker 3: change the way you get dressed in the morning.
Speaker 2: One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday
Speaker 2: and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the link
Speaker 2: in the show notes to get us in your ears
Speaker 2: five days a week. And a huge thank you to
Speaker 2: all our current subscribers.
Speaker 3: May is not here, but she will be calling in
Speaker 3: with an impassioned complaint because I'm about to bring a
Speaker 3: fashion topic to the podcast. Yes, and the day I
Speaker 3: become the fashion correspondent on the show is a sad
Speaker 3: day for us all. But I have a fashionable friend
Speaker 3: it's not Maya, and she told me about the seven
Speaker 3: point fashion rule over the weekend and suddenly everything makes sense.
Speaker 3: It has been doing the rounds on TikTok, and here's
Speaker 3: a bit of a summary.
Speaker 2: Getting dressed using the seven point outfit method.
Speaker 1: According to this method that I saw in TikTok, each
Speaker 1: article of clothing or accessory equals one point, and when
Speaker 1: you add up to seven points, you will have the
Speaker 1: perfect outfit. So my top in my bottom is both
Speaker 1: automatically give me one point each, and then we're going
Speaker 1: to add a pair of shoes, which is another point.
Speaker 1: Then I'm going to add this black and gold belt,
Speaker 1: which will give me my fourth point for this outfit.
Speaker 1: Then some gold jewelry to match the belt, and all
Speaker 1: of the jewelry is going to count as one point.
Speaker 1: And with all of that, we're still only at five
Speaker 1: out of seven points. So I'm going to add this
Speaker 1: black tope bag that I use as my backpack for school,
Speaker 1: and finally I'm going to add some sunglasses, which are
Speaker 1: also one point.
Speaker 5: Every item has a score of either one or two,
Speaker 5: depending on how much it adds to that. There are
Speaker 5: some examples of ones, think basic, solid color, normal, solo one,
Speaker 5: and here are some examples of twos. Think pattern, textured, interesting, silouette.
Speaker 5: Your goal is to get to at least seven and
Speaker 5: try not to exceed nine or ten.
Speaker 2: I would never stay within the nine or ten.
Speaker 3: No, she's at thirty eight every single day to you today,
Speaker 3: I think I'm two points, which is a record.
Speaker 2: I actually bracelets.
Speaker 3: I don't know if they count. The idea is that
Speaker 3: you've got your neutrals or your basics. So I'm wearing
Speaker 3: like a shirt dress. It might just be a shit,
Speaker 3: but I'm wearing it as a dress. That's one point.
Speaker 3: And I've got my shoes on, which is a plus
Speaker 3: for a Monday, so I've got my two points. Then
Speaker 3: there's statement pieces. Allegedly some people own something called statement pieces,
Speaker 3: which is like a pattern shirt or maybe you've got
Speaker 3: a skirt with a really good shape to.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: A designer handbag is apparently like that's two points, you'd hope,
Speaker 3: or like a chunky necklace or a belt. Look so
Speaker 3: if I've got my shirts one point, then.
Speaker 2: I underwear doesn't count.
Speaker 3: Doesn't count maybe if you can see it. But if
Speaker 3: I had a blazer, can you imagine me a blazer
Speaker 3: that's another one, a fancy bag, maybe some nice boots
Speaker 3: or something. Then I'm looking at a seven and then
Speaker 3: I look done. And if you're wondering why you chronically
Speaker 3: look underdone because you're not reaching your seven. And if
Speaker 3: you're like a Maya and you know the co Ko
Speaker 3: Chanell rule about take something off.
Speaker 2: Before you leave the mirror, turnaround, take it.
Speaker 3: Off because you're exceeding your seven? Does this make sense
Speaker 3: to you?
Speaker 4: Guys?
Speaker 3: What do you think?
Speaker 4: Yeah, some people just have it when it comes to
Speaker 4: fashion and some people don't. And I love fashion, but
Speaker 4: I'm in the latter camp. So I'm trying to find
Speaker 4: a leather jacket right now, And I keep sending links
Speaker 4: to Mia. She just keeps responding with no.
Speaker 3: That's not helpful.
Speaker 4: It's really hurtful, first of all. But as someone who
Speaker 4: is like a bit fashion clueless despite my love of fashion,
Speaker 4: I do love a fashion rule. Yes, have you heard
Speaker 4: of Amy Smileovic. She's the founder of Tibbi, which is
Speaker 4: this fashion brand out of the US about to become
Speaker 4: more expensive. She has a bunch of these fashion rules.
Speaker 4: I just wanted to run a few past you. Rule
Speaker 4: of three that means you need three key items or
Speaker 4: elements in your outfit. Related is her one ton or
Speaker 4: none rule, which means you can wear no color one
Speaker 4: color is a statement or a ton of color, which
Speaker 4: actually makes a lot of sense when you think about it,
Speaker 4: like you can't wear like bright red and bright blue
Speaker 4: without then adding bright green shoes. And then there's big
Speaker 4: slim skin, which means you need one element of each
Speaker 4: in your outfit.
Speaker 2: This is very confusing, but I've realized about the seven points.
Speaker 2: It's accessories, right, and I am terrible at accessories. Some people,
Speaker 2: like our much mentioned friend, me very good with accessories.
Speaker 2: I change my earrings once a month and then I
Speaker 2: forget about them. That's it. And my rings I wear
Speaker 2: every day, like I just I've got one bag and
Speaker 2: I wear it every day. The changing of accessories to
Speaker 2: go with every outfit, I think that is one of
Speaker 2: those two types of people. Yes, and whether probably one
Speaker 2: of the delineators about whether or not your because when
Speaker 2: we talk about clothes on the show, we often get
Speaker 2: like nice supportive ou Ladders will be like, but you
Speaker 2: look nice, Holly, you look nice, Jesse. But we all
Speaker 2: know that Mia is the one who thinks about it
Speaker 2: the most, tries the hardest at it, gets the most
Speaker 2: joy from it. So she feels very comfortable looking at
Speaker 2: us and going look at you, satellites. But I reckon,
Speaker 2: there's that delineation probably of whether did you think today
Speaker 2: when you put your like So I'm wearing a dress
Speaker 2: today and shoes. My dress is probably one, right, my
Speaker 2: shoes are red, so I might get.
Speaker 4: Two for those.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're a two point shoe lady, because
Speaker 2: I love an interesting shoe. But then I've stopped. Whereas
Speaker 2: if I was any person you'd be waiting a fancy
Speaker 2: I would have looked in the mirror and gone, maybe
Speaker 2: a belt, maybe a bag, maybe a fascinatory morning. But
Speaker 2: it's accessories. How do you get good at that?
Speaker 3: Okay? So I think that this is what fashion people
Speaker 3: mean when they use a word I've never understood, and
Speaker 3: that word is elevated. Okay, they go, this just looks elevated,
Speaker 3: and they do things like roll up their sleeves.
Speaker 2: Yes, me is always telling me to roll up my sleeves.
Speaker 3: And I don't understand what elevated means. And I think
Speaker 3: that is because they own items that would qualify as
Speaker 3: a two pointer. I don't think I own an item
Speaker 3: that's a two pointer.
Speaker 4: I have to say that I did make one purchase
Speaker 4: recently that has changed everything for me. I heard this theory.
Speaker 4: I bought a belt.
Speaker 3: What kind of because before I thought, I don't have
Speaker 3: a belt stay up by themselves because I buy the
Speaker 3: correct size, Why do I need a belt?
Speaker 4: Also, as an older millennial often discussed on this show,
Speaker 4: we were told the belts were unfashionable.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we went too hard on the belt and then
Speaker 3: we had to throw them out.
Speaker 4: Belts, creases, socks, these were all things that we were
Speaker 4: taught pleats. Rather, we were told we couldn't wear them.
Speaker 4: But I bought a belt, and I feel like, here's
Speaker 4: another fashion term.
Speaker 2: It pulls it all together, right, That's what I mean.
Speaker 3: And something going.
Speaker 2: He is going to be throwing the phone right now.
Speaker 3: So apparently in your wardrobe you're meant to have a
Speaker 3: one point section and a two point section. Ship yea,
Speaker 3: and my two point sections empty? Where are we meant
Speaker 3: to keep the accessories? Where do you keep your belt.
Speaker 4: I've only got one. I feel like this is like
Speaker 4: if we had me or explained tariffs, like, this is
Speaker 4: what we're doing.
Speaker 2: I've got a belt, how I keep it on a
Speaker 2: hook on the back of my door, and I forget
Speaker 2: it exists constantly every now and again, I got the belt?
Speaker 2: Does that work? It's like, yeah, Now I think accessory
Speaker 2: are the thing?
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, I think.
Speaker 2: On that note, and with MIA's hair on fire, a
Speaker 2: massive thank you to all of the outludders.
Speaker 4: That's our second album. 've been.
Speaker 2: Talk of hot cross buns and bread in pants and
Speaker 2: tariffs and I mean, I just I.
Speaker 3: Don't know who's light and shade.
Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome to your week, Welcome to Monday, and we
Speaker 2: will be back in your ears tomorrow. And thank you,
Speaker 2: of course to our wonderful team.
Speaker 3: Bye bye. Shout out to any Mom and Me a
Speaker 3: subscribers listening. If you love the show and you want
Speaker 3: to support us, subscribing to Mom and Mia is the
Speaker 3: very best way to do so. There's a link in
Speaker 3: the episode description