Speaker 1: True crime Conversations acknowledges the traditional owners of land and
Speaker 1: waters that this podcast was recorded on. It was a
Speaker 1: quiet Tuesday morning in the Canadian city of Toronto. Heather
Speaker 1: was straightening up her downtown condo, just starting her day.
Speaker 1: It was another busy one. She's a real estate broker,
Speaker 1: always on the move. This morning's task was a simple one.
Speaker 1: Finally get those kitchen cabinets fixed. The hinges had been
Speaker 1: loose for weeks, and the building manager had recommended someone,
Speaker 1: a handyman named Jace. Right on time, there was a
Speaker 1: knock at the door. Heather opened it to find a
Speaker 1: man in his early forties, relaxed, athletic toolbag in hand.
Speaker 1: He had that kind of calm, casual confidence that immediately
Speaker 1: puts people at ease. He introduced himself with a smile
Speaker 1: that seemed to land exactly where it was meant to.
Speaker 1: Heather led him in, grateful to have one less thing
Speaker 1: to worry about on her to do list. As he worked,
Speaker 1: they chatted small stuff, favorite neighborhoods, local coffee shops, the
Speaker 1: never ending strange charms of condo living. He was easy
Speaker 1: to be around, funny present, the kind of guy who
Speaker 1: made it easy to forget how long he'd been alone.
Speaker 1: But while Jace tightened her cabinet hinges, his phone silenced
Speaker 1: and faced down buzzed steadily on the counter beside him.
Speaker 1: Because Jace wasn't just a handyman. He was actually Jason Porter,
Speaker 1: a serial romance scammer known for slipping into women's lives,
Speaker 1: winning their trust, and then disappearing with more than just
Speaker 1: their hearts. Heather hadn't heard about him yet, but she
Speaker 1: would in that moment. She had no idea how much
Speaker 1: damage he could do, or how close she already was
Speaker 1: to becoming his next target. I'm Claire Murphy and this
Speaker 1: is True Crime Conversations, a podcast exploring the world's most
Speaker 1: notorious crimes by speaking to the people who know the
Speaker 1: most about them. Jason Porter scammed dozens, potentially hundreds of
Speaker 1: women across Canada over more than a decade, using romance
Speaker 1: scams as his primary method. He targeted women mostly through
Speaker 1: dating apps like Plenty of Fish, Eharmonymatch dot Com, and Bumble,
Speaker 1: often using fake names like Jay Stone, Donato, and Mike.
Speaker 1: At the peak of his romance scam campaign, he had
Speaker 1: hundreds of women on the hook, and when Heather unknowingly
Speaker 1: stumbled into the midst of this complex ring of broken
Speaker 1: hearts waiting to happen.
Speaker 2: She would stop dead in her.
Speaker 1: Tracks, seeing again and again words that she thought meant
Speaker 1: only for her, repeated over and over and over again,
Speaker 1: each unsuspecting victim falling for the exact same charm that
Speaker 1: she had. While many women do not report being scammed
Speaker 1: by someone who gets to them via dating apps, Heather
Speaker 1: said the shame. I'm taking this guy down, even if
Speaker 1: it's the last thing I do. But getting there would
Speaker 1: not be easy, and Jace still had some tactics left
Speaker 1: up his sleeve to try and once again get away
Speaker 1: with innocent women's money while breaking their trust. Heather stars
Speaker 1: in the Amazon Prime documentary Who the Heir Is Jason
Speaker 1: Porter and talks to us now about the man she
Speaker 1: thought she loved, the man who she would help put
Speaker 1: behind bars. Heather, thank you so much for joining us
Speaker 1: today after watching rom Con. I think the overarching feeling
Speaker 1: we've gotten from seeing you talk about your experience of
Speaker 1: being targeted by a romance scammer is like you are
Speaker 1: such a boss lady, like you've been through the actual
Speaker 1: worst and used it as feel for the fire like it.
Speaker 2: Do you feel.
Speaker 1: After your experience of not only what you went through
Speaker 1: with Jason Porter, but also filming this documentary, do you
Speaker 1: feel stronger on the.
Speaker 2: Other side of your experience.
Speaker 3: That's a good question. I do. After making the documentary
Speaker 3: and going through the criminal justice system, I really feel
Speaker 3: like I took one of the worst things that has
Speaker 3: ever happened to me in my life. Well, actually know,
Speaker 3: let me rephrase that this meeting, meeting Jay's at the
Speaker 3: beginning was great, but when I learned the truth, that's
Speaker 3: probably the worst thing in terms of something being unfair,
Speaker 3: and by reclaiming it, it just it's given me my
Speaker 3: power back. You know, I don't want to be Nobody
Speaker 3: wants to wake up and be a victim. So if
Speaker 3: you can take that victim hood and make it victorious,
Speaker 3: it's it's a good thing.
Speaker 1: Well, let's go back to when you did first meet
Speaker 1: Jays because the way you describe it in the documentary,
Speaker 1: Rome Con is like every woman's fantasy.
Speaker 2: It's like romances that.
Speaker 1: We read in books like can you explain to us
Speaker 1: how he like initially grabbed your attention and kept hold. Yes,
Speaker 1: it was like a Hollywood meet cute, you know, there.
Speaker 3: I opened the door and there's this super cute guy.
Speaker 3: He wasn't His predecessor was this chubby Eastern European guy
Speaker 3: named ole egg Or Olaf and so I wasn't expecting
Speaker 3: to open the door and just he's such a cutie
Speaker 3: and he chase. I guess I could still say it
Speaker 3: in the present. He is. He was so charming and
Speaker 3: so flirtatious and not knowing who he was, and that
Speaker 3: that's all part of his game. It's easy to get
Speaker 3: hooked in, to get pulled into that, because I've never
Speaker 3: had from the first day we met to when we
Speaker 3: went on our first date, it was about two and
Speaker 3: a half week lag, and I have every single text
Speaker 3: message he has ever sent me and the in between
Speaker 3: it was that was some of the spiciest, most flirtatious
Speaker 3: texts we've ever sent one another back. And I thought
Speaker 3: it was me and I was so special, But then
Speaker 3: learning that that's what he said to Tiffany, and that's
Speaker 3: what he said to Leslie, and that's what he has
Speaker 3: on his online chats. It's his bible. I guess, it's
Speaker 3: his you know, his playlist in a way, and he
Speaker 3: obviously like it works. It worked. I was, I was
Speaker 3: googly eyed. I was on cloud night for weeks and
Speaker 3: months and even years with him.
Speaker 1: I think that's what really like felt like a knife
Speaker 1: to the gut when watching this all unfold was when
Speaker 1: they do put up the comparisons between what he was
Speaker 1: saying to you and what he was say saying to others,
Speaker 1: which really matched almost word for word. But then the
Speaker 1: story you tell about the night of your first date
Speaker 1: when he first kisses you, is also the same story
Speaker 1: shared by the other women, And that feels like such
Speaker 1: an intimate and special moment. Can you just talk me
Speaker 1: through first your first kiss with him, and then how
Speaker 1: it feels to know that that exact same scenario has
Speaker 1: played out for I mean, not even knowing how many
Speaker 1: other women.
Speaker 3: So yeah, we had gone out for dinner and it
Speaker 3: was summer, so we walked. He came on his motorcycle
Speaker 3: and we walked to a restaurant and walked home, and
Speaker 3: he had left, you know, the motorcycle, helmet and the
Speaker 3: infamous backpack in my place, and so we went up
Speaker 3: and I just remember I actually had Baxi, my little
Speaker 3: dog that's in the documentary. I was holding him and
Speaker 3: we were sort of shuffling in the door way, and
Speaker 3: it was one of those like oh, like is he
Speaker 3: going to kiss me? Should I kiss him? And I
Speaker 3: don't know what came over in me, but I leaned
Speaker 3: in and just kind of went And that's when he
Speaker 3: took Baxter, plopped him on the ground, dropped his helmet,
Speaker 3: dropped his backpack, and literally pushed me up against the wall.
Speaker 3: And when I say, it left me breathless, and it
Speaker 3: left me weak. And then I have ever been kissed
Speaker 3: like that. When I heard Tiffany's story, which was I
Speaker 3: think around the same time as my first kiss, I
Speaker 3: was floored. I it is wild that he did the
Speaker 3: same thing to me, to her, to who knows how
Speaker 3: many other women. For so many years, I thought I
Speaker 3: was so special and that he made me feel special
Speaker 3: because every day, day and day out, I would hear
Speaker 3: You're the love of my life. You he he would
Speaker 3: call me all the time throughout the day. And when
Speaker 3: I was making I love you, BUYE, I love you, BUYE,
Speaker 3: I love you BUYE. When you're told I love you,
Speaker 3: I love you, I love you, you feel very special.
Speaker 3: So to hear that my whole love story is just
Speaker 3: a move. He has that he's perfected. It's pretty got wrenching,
Speaker 3: but you know, to learn that I really wasn't special sucked.
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna lie like, it really was awful. But
Speaker 3: to rosso realized that any of the problems in the
Speaker 3: relationship weren't me was also really kind of liberating. I
Speaker 3: remember one day after learning the truth, I called my
Speaker 3: mom and I was kind of laughing crying. I was like,
Speaker 3: oh my god, it wasn't I didn't mess this up, Like,
Speaker 3: it wasn't me, it was him. So from that perspective,
Speaker 3: it was so bad. But you know, to be honest,
Speaker 3: it took me a long time just to make sense
Speaker 3: of it and to make peace with it. And there's
Speaker 3: still some days where I'll say, it's like impossible to
Speaker 3: make sense of something so sounds less.
Speaker 1: I think what people want to understand the most out
Speaker 1: of this, and especially for people who've been caught out before,
Speaker 1: is where were you because you met him in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1: So what was the twenty eighteen version of Heather looking like?
Speaker 1: Because from what I can gather, she was pretty happy
Speaker 1: being solo and living life and being successful and wasn't
Speaker 1: looking for a relationship at that point in time, and
Speaker 1: in fact, you'd been single for quite a while by
Speaker 1: that stage. So what made you the perfect victim for
Speaker 1: Jason Porter?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: What did he see in you that made you a
Speaker 2: good target?
Speaker 3: I think what made me a good target for him
Speaker 3: was robbably that I coupled his like for every it's
Speaker 3: like chest right like, for every move he did, I
Speaker 3: would meet him there in the beginning, right like, So
Speaker 3: if he flirted, I flirted back because I thought at
Speaker 3: first it was just a game until it started getting serious.
Speaker 3: But once we became physical and intimate, I was gone
Speaker 3: because there were so many of those like feel good
Speaker 3: hormones raging through my body that I couldn't even see straight.
Speaker 3: So and like I say in the documentary, like all
Speaker 3: of a sudden, like the little things in life, he
Speaker 3: just had this way of making everything so much fun,
Speaker 3: whether it was going on the motorcycle or going to
Speaker 3: the grocery store or just now of a sudden, it's like,
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, I have somebody just to you know,
Speaker 3: make dinner and sit on the couch with Like it
Speaker 3: was quite It was a nice welcome change from being solo. Heather,
Speaker 3: and now I all of a sudden had somebody I
Speaker 3: could talk to about my day and talk to about work,
Speaker 3: you know, like I I. I had been in and
Speaker 3: out of a relationship before I met him, and I
Speaker 3: had this, you know, like a comfort flanket kind of friend,
Speaker 3: you know, not really, I don't like the term friends
Speaker 3: with benefits, but I did have somebody in my life
Speaker 3: that while the into the the physical intimacy with that
Speaker 3: person was gone, I still had him as a friend. Yeah, Jace,
Speaker 3: just I don't know, he just when you're I'd never
Speaker 3: felt like that before. I had never had somebody also
Speaker 3: so quickly and openly and brazenly declare their love for
Speaker 3: me and tell me how incredible. I was like, it's
Speaker 3: messes with your brain, but it also, not knowing what
Speaker 3: he was doing, it felt incredible. Why wouldn't I want
Speaker 3: to see where this went? I remember, probably like a
Speaker 3: month after meeting him, walking down the street and I
Speaker 3: ran into a friend I hadn't seen in a while,
Speaker 3: and she was like, oh my god, you're glowing like
Speaker 3: I'm in love. I'm in love, like I owned being
Speaker 3: in love like a new badge. I was just like,
Speaker 3: you gotta fall in love. It's the best thing ever
Speaker 3: because it felt incredible, and it's sad that it really
Speaker 3: wasn't real, but in the moment it arn't knowing it
Speaker 3: was great.
Speaker 2: What did he creative himself?
Speaker 1: Because he span a lot of stories that created this
Speaker 1: vision of who Jay s Peretti as he called himself.
Speaker 1: They're not Jason Porter, Like, what was he telling you
Speaker 1: about himself? And if you could explain to how that
Speaker 1: didn't just reel you in, but also your friends and
Speaker 1: family to a point too, because he was creating this
Speaker 1: version of a human that didn't exist, which was quite
Speaker 1: appealing to everybody.
Speaker 3: I think with Jess, I'd like to think that when
Speaker 3: he was in prison as Jason Porter, you probably had
Speaker 3: a lot of time to sit around and think, and
Speaker 3: I think he crafted up these tall tales. So when
Speaker 3: he first got out of federal prison, he changed his
Speaker 3: name from Jason Porter to Jason Parati. And then by
Speaker 3: the time I met him, Parati had morphed into Parati.
Speaker 3: And when I met him that day that first stay
Speaker 3: at my condo, and he right away told me he
Speaker 3: had gone to the University of Waterloo and he was
Speaker 3: really a software engineer. But because of what he was
Speaker 3: navigating with the family court system, he was just taking
Speaker 3: a break from corporate world. So when he would share
Speaker 3: his tall tales of living in China and living in
Speaker 3: Japan and working at this job, being in my mid
Speaker 3: to late forties, I have a lot of that back then,
Speaker 3: Like I have a lot of successful friends. I was successful,
Speaker 3: I am successful. So they were believable stories. So, you know,
Speaker 3: for him to say, oh, I lived, I worked at
Speaker 3: this company and I lived in China, well, of course
Speaker 3: you did. Why wouldn't you, You know, I have been
Speaker 3: I think, like most people, like, I meet people and
Speaker 3: I don't think right off bout oh he's lying there,
Speaker 3: they're not. You know, you take people at their word,
Speaker 3: at their face value. So of course I believed him
Speaker 3: that he had all these great stories. I mean even
Speaker 3: you know, the way he wooed my mom was, you know,
Speaker 3: both my parents are really into history, and the stories
Speaker 3: of his both his Italian grandparents fighting for the Allies
Speaker 3: in World War Two. Literally one of the stories that
Speaker 3: he told us it's exactly the same as the Great Escape,
Speaker 3: that famous movie. Wow. Okay, yeah, And my mom even
Speaker 3: said that one night at dinner, She's like, sounds like
Speaker 3: the Great Escape. He's like, it is like the Great Escape,
Speaker 3: but that was my grandfather. They based that on him
Speaker 3: and all those other people, and we're like, oh wow.
Speaker 3: I mean it's now that we know who he is,
Speaker 3: it's completely far fetched and alive. But at the time
Speaker 3: we were just like, wow, like he just you know,
Speaker 3: they say sometimes there's like nuggets of truth in the lies,
Speaker 3: but most of his stories I think they're from books, movies,
Speaker 3: who knows, but it's pretty much all lies.
Speaker 1: I mean, I know you said he probably had some
Speaker 1: time in prison to really think about things and spin
Speaker 1: these stories in his own mind. But I imagine, like
Speaker 1: a young man doesn't just wake up one day and
Speaker 1: he's really great at making women believe that he's this amazing,
Speaker 1: wonderful boyfriend. Material Like, any idea where he might have
Speaker 1: learnt this behavior or is there any idea from like
Speaker 1: his family. Have they ever spoken about maybe what he
Speaker 1: was like when he was a younger man. Do you
Speaker 1: have any concept of where he would have learnt this behavior?
Speaker 3: You know, I've never spoken to anyone in his family.
Speaker 3: I would love to.
Speaker 2: Even though you're together for quite a few years.
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, Oh, that definitely, I mean, but that was
Speaker 3: also like, now that's a glaring red flag that I've
Speaker 3: never met his family, but he again, he had when
Speaker 3: I would say, like, what's up with your brother? Why
Speaker 3: can't we meet? You know, let's go meet your brother,
Speaker 3: he had a whole story as to why we weren't
Speaker 3: you know, why him and his brother were estranged right now,
Speaker 3: And he had this way of like turning it around.
Speaker 3: So then you just felt so bad for kind of
Speaker 3: stirring the pot and making him feel bad, you know.
Speaker 3: But that's what gaslighting is. But I didn't know that
Speaker 3: at the time. I have no idea because he does
Speaker 3: have a brother who I've never met, but I've learned
Speaker 3: enough about him since to know, like his brother is
Speaker 3: a normal person with a wife and kids. Like how
Speaker 3: can a family have one child who's so mendacious and
Speaker 3: one who's normal. I mean, I don't know. I'd love
Speaker 3: to one day learn the tr ruths to all his backstory.
Speaker 3: But you know, his parents are dead. I actually, through
Speaker 3: our whole relationship, was under the impression that his biological
Speaker 3: father was still alive, because he used to talk about
Speaker 3: his dad as if he were still alive. But any
Speaker 3: parental figure in his life is gone, you know, And
Speaker 3: that's The other question with all this, are these psychopaths
Speaker 3: born this way or is it a learned behavior?
Speaker 1: I don't know, he said, like that was an obvious
Speaker 1: red flag and the beauty of hindsight as you can
Speaker 1: probably identify a ton of red flags now looking back.
Speaker 1: But where any of your friends or family noticing suspicious
Speaker 1: behaviors during the start of your relationship. Did anyone ever
Speaker 1: say to you, maybe this guy's not quite right?
Speaker 3: No? I mean, in the documentary, my good friend Kristen
Speaker 3: shares how she would talk to him at length about
Speaker 3: she would grow him on China because she goes to
Speaker 3: China or she used to a lot, and for as
Speaker 3: she says, for a guy who lived in China for
Speaker 3: two years to no Mandarin and know really nothing. To her,
Speaker 3: it was suspicious. But you know, nobody told me because
Speaker 3: I think I was just so happy, Like I was
Speaker 3: really happy, and I don't think anyone wanted to burst
Speaker 3: my bubble, so they just sort of kept their thoughts
Speaker 3: to themselves. Had they shared this with me, I would
Speaker 3: like to think I would have listened, But it's hard
Speaker 3: to say, right because you know, with Kristen, he made
Speaker 3: it very clear how he felt about her. He and
Speaker 3: he would say things like, I don't think she's a
Speaker 3: good friend for you. She's not a healthy person. So
Speaker 3: he would flip it around, so I would start to
Speaker 3: question my friendship. She's one of the most loyal people
Speaker 3: in the world, Like we're still very, very close to
Speaker 3: this day. I adore her. You know, it's crazy to
Speaker 3: think that that's what they do. They weaponize everything, love, friends, family,
Speaker 3: They isolate. I mean, it's one of their tactics. They do,
Speaker 3: try to isolate you, and in our case, the pandemic
Speaker 3: that perfectly into it, you know, And I mean, there's
Speaker 3: it's crazy to me, Like there's times where I've wondered,
Speaker 3: did he have some insight into what was happening with
Speaker 3: the world before the rest of us, because we were,
Speaker 3: you know, that whole Italy trip. We were supposed to
Speaker 3: have gone to Italy early March, like two weeks before
Speaker 3: the world shot down, but he about a month before
Speaker 3: we were supposed to go. You know, he came home
Speaker 3: one day and he was like, oh my god, you know,
Speaker 3: the family court is now happening when we're supposed to
Speaker 3: go to Italy. So it's all just I don't know,
Speaker 3: It's like it's just to this day all a bit
Speaker 3: of a mystery. But yeah, he's I don't know, like
Speaker 3: was he born that way? I don't know. Maybe.
Speaker 1: Up next, Heather describes what life was like once she
Speaker 1: and Jason moved in together, and how more cracks in
Speaker 1: his story.
Speaker 2: Started to show when the pandemic hit.
Speaker 1: You move in together, and so you're spending like really
Speaker 1: long periods of time to start within a small apartment together,
Speaker 1: and then you move into a bigger property further out
Speaker 1: of the city. But I imagine it would have been more
Speaker 1: difficult for him to cover up because it's not like
Speaker 1: he stopped being a scammer for other women during the pandemic.
Speaker 1: In fact, it continued on just as it did beforehand.
Speaker 1: But he's not as free to physically.
Speaker 2: Spend time with other women.
Speaker 1: But it would have been harder for him to cover
Speaker 1: his tracks while you are in a small space with
Speaker 1: him at all times, Like, did you ever see any
Speaker 1: anything that made you wonder or think it was he
Speaker 1: really just that good at keeping things separate because he
Speaker 1: was doing so many things at once, which is what
Speaker 1: I think really surprised me that he's able to keep
Speaker 1: so many women on the hook. Manipulating so many taking
Speaker 1: things from them like physical items, but also you know,
Speaker 1: money and lots of other things, Like how is he
Speaker 1: managing all of that whilst also existing in a pandemic
Speaker 1: state with you?
Speaker 3: So even like before the pandemic, I remember, it would
Speaker 3: have been probably in the first six months of our relationship,
Speaker 3: you know, with his backstory being that he had worked
Speaker 3: in China. He came home and he's like, oh, I've
Speaker 3: picked up a small contracting gig for that company, but
Speaker 3: because of the time change, I'm going to have to
Speaker 3: like stay up late. I'm like, okay, So I would
Speaker 3: go to bed at a normal time and he would
Speaker 3: stay up half the night. So I think that's when
Speaker 3: he would be engaging with a lot of these you know,
Speaker 3: he probably then had the app but who's kiddingho like
Speaker 3: he's addicted to his phone. Probably when he went to
Speaker 3: the bathroom, he would have his phone and be on
Speaker 3: the apps texting people. But you know, when we hit lockdown,
Speaker 3: Within probably two weeks of the lockdown or less, he
Speaker 3: started looking for a moonlighting job, as he called it,
Speaker 3: and he was able to because not I don't know
Speaker 3: what it was like in Australia, but in Canada, you know,
Speaker 3: certain things were deemed essential services, and I think construction
Speaker 3: I believe must have fallen into that because he was
Speaker 3: able to get a moonlighting, cash paying job working renovating
Speaker 3: a nightclub. Just next door to Toronto is a little
Speaker 3: a smaller city called Mississauga, so he was going out
Speaker 3: to Mississauga. So that gave him also a lot of
Speaker 3: freedom to claim he was, you know, working late or
Speaker 3: doing this or doing that, and go on dates. And
Speaker 3: there was one weekend in there that I remember, and
Speaker 3: this isn't in the documentary, so I'm probably not supposed
Speaker 3: to talk about it, but the guys who hired him
Speaker 3: for the nightclub, apparently they were having a guy's weekend
Speaker 3: to go and race sports cars and motorcycles at a
Speaker 3: track east of the city. And I was like, go, like,
Speaker 3: you know, go have fun. Why not, it's a guy's weekend.
Speaker 3: But it wasn't a guy's weekend because after the article
Speaker 3: came out, a woman emailed me and it was confirmed
Speaker 3: that that guy's weekend he was actually with another woman.
Speaker 3: So I think, to answer your question, the pandemic actually
Speaker 3: gave him more power more, you know, if anything, my
Speaker 3: guard would be even more down because I'm locked up
Speaker 3: and what am I going to do? So I never
Speaker 3: I never questioned what he was doing. Never in a
Speaker 3: million years thought he was cheating on me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, is it cheating if he was never really in
Speaker 1: that relationship in the first place?
Speaker 2: Maybe not. After the pandemic, you're spending a bit.
Speaker 1: Of time out on your parents' farm, and one day
Speaker 1: your mom notices that a lot of her jewelry is missing,
Speaker 1: stuff that had been in a safe that was unlocked
Speaker 1: from her rooms.
Speaker 2: In the beginning.
Speaker 1: It's very much like no one is even considering that
Speaker 1: Jace might have taken these things, And in fact, your
Speaker 1: mum talks in the documentary about confronting the cleaner about it,
Speaker 1: who told her that Jace had taken them, and she
Speaker 1: still couldn't believe that that was the case. When you
Speaker 1: heard that from your mum what the cleaner had told you,
Speaker 1: did any part of you at any stage start to
Speaker 1: consider that maybe it was him, or were you so
Speaker 1: happy and stable in that relationship that you thought that
Speaker 1: there was no way that could potentially.
Speaker 3: Be what happened. My mom never told me about confronting
Speaker 3: the cleaning lady when it was happening. It was. I
Speaker 3: learned about it after the fact that the cleaning lady
Speaker 3: had quit. We were all surprised when I got into
Speaker 3: the computer and started seeing you know, emails for like
Speaker 3: this ring, that brace, like it was. I could not
Speaker 3: believe what I was seeing. I think because again he
Speaker 3: was with my mom's stuff, Like none of us wear
Speaker 3: all our jewelry all the time, right, So I don't
Speaker 3: think she noticed it was happening until one day she
Speaker 3: noticed it.
Speaker 2: So this could have been going on for months.
Speaker 3: I do you know it was going on for months
Speaker 3: and months because of some of the evidence I found,
Speaker 3: it was dated as such. Right, the first thing that
Speaker 3: went missing actually was in the fall of twenty nineteen.
Speaker 3: That's how long I was going on for. And yeah,
Speaker 3: I think Jace probably figured out like where the things
Speaker 3: were kept, and you know, like that little safe was,
Speaker 3: and when we would go for a visit or he
Speaker 3: would you know, go up on his own, and my
Speaker 3: mom would be like, you know, here's the key, here's
Speaker 3: the alarm code, let yourself in, make yourself a coffee.
Speaker 3: Because she trusted him. I think it was so easy.
Speaker 3: He was like a kid in a candy store. He
Speaker 3: couldn't help himself. He would just go and take one
Speaker 3: thing and then he could sell it and he'd have
Speaker 3: a bit of money, and then he would take another
Speaker 3: thing and sell it. So it took. It wasn't until
Speaker 3: like that one day that they really went through all
Speaker 3: the bags and they were like, oh my god, it's
Speaker 3: and when we still didn't know what it was Jase
Speaker 3: until like a couple months later, after all that happened,
Speaker 3: like it was. It was shocking. It was shocking. I couldn't.
Speaker 3: I didn't. I didn't have the heart to actually tell
Speaker 3: my parents it was Jase. I made my sister do
Speaker 3: it because I was so upset. I was devastated. I
Speaker 3: was devastated, and I my sister had come to my
Speaker 3: house and Aurora with her boyfriend, and I was like, Jenny,
Speaker 3: you have to tell her. I can't. I didn't have
Speaker 3: the heart. I was so ashamed. I was so like
Speaker 3: I brought the monster into our home.
Speaker 1: That must be so hard to still come to terms
Speaker 1: with that. Can see during the documentary how emotionally difficult
Speaker 1: it is for you to think about that.
Speaker 3: It really really is. And yeah, there's the part in
Speaker 3: the documentary where my mom says when he's she realized
Speaker 3: her both her wedding bands were gone. It's like part
Speaker 3: of her marriage, the memories of her marriage are gone.
Speaker 3: And you know, now, especially with my dad not being here,
Speaker 3: that's that's the worst thing. Like when I said earlier,
Speaker 3: learning that my life with Jase was a lie, that
Speaker 3: was like a really awful, awful thing, But it's losing
Speaker 3: your parent is like such a different kind of pain.
Speaker 3: I mean, I would take the pain of what I
Speaker 3: discovered with Jase over and over again if it meant
Speaker 3: my dad were still here. And when we finally were
Speaker 3: going through the court and he, you know it said
Speaker 3: he did. Eventually, after three years and three months, he
Speaker 3: pled guilty. We got to read victim impact statements and
Speaker 3: both of us would say, it's not the monetary value
Speaker 3: of what he stole, it's that it's the memories, Like
Speaker 3: we're never my mom's never going to get that back,
Speaker 3: none of us are. There's nothing for her that you know.
Speaker 3: Every time my dad would give her something, it was
Speaker 3: a representation of an anniversary or a birthday or a
Speaker 3: trip like to commemorate that memory. And now that's all gone,
Speaker 3: and there's nothing to pass on to my sister or
Speaker 3: myself or my niece, like there's no heirlooms anymore. He
Speaker 3: Jace wiped that out. And I remember I was at
Speaker 3: a movie with my parents and one of the preview
Speaker 3: ads was for Tiffany and my mom like gasps, like
Speaker 3: that's my ring and I wanted to just die like
Speaker 3: it was awful. No amount of time in jail will
Speaker 3: make that better, you know. So it's and even though
Speaker 3: he has to pay my mom restitution when he eventually
Speaker 3: gets out, which good luck. I don't know how help. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it doesn't matter, Like I don't even think she would
Speaker 3: keep the money. I think she'd give it to charity,
Speaker 3: because it's not it doesn't I don't know. It's something
Speaker 3: you could. You know, my therapist and I talk about
Speaker 3: this a lot. It's that radical acceptance. You don't have
Speaker 3: to like it, but you have to accept that it happened.
Speaker 1: After the break Here the talks about logging into Jason's
Speaker 1: email and seeing endless conversations with other women on dating apps.
Speaker 1: Can you take us into your mind the day that
Speaker 1: you figure out his password to his Gmail account and
Speaker 1: you start to see exactly what he's been up to,
Speaker 1: Like what is happening in your brain? When you first
Speaker 1: start to see all the conversations with all these women,
Speaker 1: a lot of it sounds very familiar, and you can
Speaker 1: see the sheer volume of conversations he's having on incredible
Speaker 1: amounts of dating apps and sites, and like take us
Speaker 1: into your mind then when you're just discovering what has
Speaker 1: actually been happening in your relationship.
Speaker 3: The first thing I did when I got in the
Speaker 3: computer and I started seeing all this, I called him
Speaker 3: my first instinct. I picked up the phone and I
Speaker 3: called him because I was what it made no sense
Speaker 3: to me, and although you know, things had been a
Speaker 3: little rocky, you know, was still very much committed to
Speaker 3: my relationship with him and my life with him. And
Speaker 3: I was like, oh my god. And he didn't answer.
Speaker 3: So then I was left in my own devices for hours,
Speaker 3: and I took I realized I took pretty coppy screenshots.
Speaker 3: I've since mastered it. But it was almost like that
Speaker 3: feeling when your your stomach comes up in your throat,
Speaker 3: because it's like the room kind of started spinning, and
Speaker 3: I think maybe it was shock. That's what like a
Speaker 3: low grade shock must feel like. Because I it, I
Speaker 3: was like flabert like I am right now, trying to
Speaker 3: describe it. I couldn't believe what I was seeing at all,
Speaker 3: Like it blew my mind. It's almost like I feel
Speaker 3: like I got split in half because there was part
Speaker 3: of me that's like, this is insane, and oh my god,
Speaker 3: I'm in love with this person. Like how it was
Speaker 3: just black and white, there was no gray in that moment,
Speaker 3: and it was so awful. It was I didn't want
Speaker 3: to believe it, and I think I say on the
Speaker 3: documentary too, I just I didn't know what to do.
Speaker 3: I couldn't believe when I got into the one of
Speaker 3: the dating apps, like his actual profile, It's not like
Speaker 3: he was talking to two or three women. It was
Speaker 3: hundreds of every age, every ethnicity, like and always like
Speaker 3: oh my god, you're so beautiful, hey beautiful, And I'm like,
Speaker 3: oh my god. That I would walk through our house
Speaker 3: in Aura and he'd be like, hey beautiful, Hey beautiful,
Speaker 3: Hey beautiful. In that moment too, it's like everything that
Speaker 3: I thought to be like the kiss, like everything that
Speaker 3: I thought to be special and true about my relationship
Speaker 3: was just a line and a lie. You know. I
Speaker 3: don't know would it be easier if I had just
Speaker 3: gotten in the computer and saw he was cheating with
Speaker 3: one person that would really hurt and that would suck,
Speaker 3: but it would be like, oh okay, but it's hundreds
Speaker 3: of people that he's talking to. It's very he's a predator.
Speaker 3: And then to you know, go down my rabbit hole
Speaker 3: and realize Jace Paratti aka Parati is actually Jason Porter.
Speaker 3: The original online Romeo was shocking, shocking.
Speaker 2: I think what's so.
Speaker 1: Incredible about this documentary, rom Con is that there's actual
Speaker 1: footage of you from this period when you are discovering,
Speaker 1: and you can see the sheer amount of emotions that
Speaker 1: you are experiencing in that moment. I mean, you are terrified,
Speaker 1: you are angry, upset, like all the gamut of emotions,
Speaker 1: and you say police do get involved, and it seems
Speaker 1: like they're pretty dismissive of the things that you're telling them. Initially,
Speaker 1: and as you said, you had to leave your house
Speaker 1: even though you know he was the one who had
Speaker 1: you know was a convicted criminal, which you just figured out.
Speaker 2: And that he was still committing crimes.
Speaker 1: And then it seems like, I don't know, this rod
Speaker 1: of steel grows in your spine and you sit down
Speaker 1: and they're like no, I'm not going to let this
Speaker 1: man get away with what he's done, not just to me,
Speaker 1: but to all these other women. What do you think
Speaker 1: was happening to you in that moment, Because women especially
Speaker 1: who were caught out by romance scammers notorious. You feel
Speaker 1: really shameful about it and very embarrassed, and that is
Speaker 1: completely understandable. It is you've not just taken advantage of financially,
Speaker 1: You're taking an advantage of someone emotionally, which I think
Speaker 1: is sometimes harder to recover from.
Speaker 2: Than a financial knock.
Speaker 1: What do you think it was about you in that
Speaker 1: moment that you were like, he'll no, this guy's going
Speaker 1: to pay.
Speaker 3: I think I very much became like a dog with
Speaker 3: a bone, like I wasn't going to let this go.
Speaker 3: I wanted answers, I wanted Look, I would still love
Speaker 3: to be able to talk to the brother and like
Speaker 3: find out what went wrong in your childhoods that he
Speaker 3: turned out this way. But I think it's when the
Speaker 3: police were just so dismissive with me that it gave
Speaker 3: me even more purpose to keep going. Like I I
Speaker 3: think in a way, after the article came out, I
Speaker 3: just was tunnel visioned to keep going and keep learning.
Speaker 3: And in a way he made it easy because he
Speaker 3: just kept the criminal justice thing rolling along and rolling along,
Speaker 3: which gave me even more ammo and anger to just
Speaker 3: get to the bottom of it. Like I just wanted
Speaker 3: just to serve for what he did to us, but
Speaker 3: I equally wanted to try and expose him so he
Speaker 3: couldn't do this to anyone else. And it's incredible how
Speaker 3: many people have reached out to me to say, like,
Speaker 3: I know, I know, it's he never stopped. Now he's
Speaker 3: finally stopped because he's finally in jailed. But if I
Speaker 3: were twenty years younger and I had gone through this,
Speaker 3: I probably would have just remained in the shame and
Speaker 3: licked my wounds and been like, oh, that sucked. But
Speaker 3: in the middle of all this, I turned fifty, and
Speaker 3: I couldn't have peace with myself if I just let
Speaker 3: it go. I just had to. I had to get
Speaker 3: the answers, and to be honest, I still don't have
Speaker 3: all the answers. There's still quite a few pieces of
Speaker 3: the puzzle missing. I hope with the documentary that perhaps
Speaker 3: it might bring more people forward who were affected by him.
Speaker 3: But somewhere along this journey too. By reclaiming my power
Speaker 3: and taking charge of the story line and working on
Speaker 3: the documentary and having so many incredible people want to
Speaker 3: bring my story to light, it's given me even more
Speaker 3: confidence that I know I'm doing the right thing.
Speaker 2: Hey, you touched on something there.
Speaker 1: It's incredible because while the court system was very slowly
Speaker 1: grinding away with this case, as you mentioned it took
Speaker 1: three years or more, like he was.
Speaker 2: Still on the dating apps.
Speaker 1: This was happening like people you know and who were
Speaker 1: keeping an eye on things and researching, and yourself for
Speaker 1: finding him still putting profiles up on these dating apps
Speaker 1: whilst he was going through criminal charges Like that seems
Speaker 1: wild to me, like if you are facing a jail
Speaker 1: term and yet you're still doing the crime.
Speaker 3: But isn't that what makes him like a psychopath? Mm?
Speaker 3: Because he doesn't have This guy has no remorse, he
Speaker 3: has no empathy, he has no conscience. I don't think he.
Speaker 3: I can't speak for him, but it from what I've observed,
Speaker 3: it's like, on one hand, he's going through criminal court
Speaker 3: and then he's probably going on a date that very
Speaker 3: night with somebody. It's like to him there too, it's
Speaker 3: you know, on our first date, he talked to me
Speaker 3: about how he puts everything in boxes. And I know
Speaker 3: men more than women, they can compartmentalize their emotions a
Speaker 3: bit better. So I chalked it up to some of
Speaker 3: his behavior through our relationship. I was just like, oh,
Speaker 3: he's compartmentalizing. But when the truth came to light, I
Speaker 3: was like, oh my god, it's like he has, you know,
Speaker 3: this memory in this box and this one in this box.
Speaker 3: So this current situation is this box and this one's
Speaker 3: this box, and he just pulls it out and opens
Speaker 3: it when he needs it. I don't think you said
Speaker 3: something else earlier. And it was interesting, Jace really drank.
Speaker 3: If we went out for dinner, he might have one drink,
Speaker 3: whereas I love wine, like I could you know, I'm
Speaker 3: not going to drink a whole bottle. And now I
Speaker 3: realized when the truth came to light, I think he
Speaker 3: would do that on purpose too, because you know, there's
Speaker 3: that saying loose lips sinks ships.
Speaker 2: So we had to keep these ducks in a row exactly.
Speaker 3: And so you know, all of the other women in
Speaker 3: the documentary, all of our stories are the same, but
Speaker 3: with like a little bit of you know, he might
Speaker 3: have told this woman and you know I was wearing
Speaker 3: a blue sweater and with me it was a green sweater.
Speaker 3: Like there's little differences, but overall it's the same sort
Speaker 3: of story, and I think he has to It must
Speaker 3: be exhausting being him, like how many people has Like
Speaker 3: you'd have to think who have I told this to?
Speaker 3: Who have I told that too? So he has to
Speaker 3: keep it pretty tight, like it's it's crazy, it's he's
Speaker 3: pretty well.
Speaker 1: I think that is really evident when you're going through
Speaker 1: the court proceedings and there's that moment where you see
Speaker 1: the people coming out but too quickly, and you're like,
Speaker 1: hang on, what's happened? And then you find out that
Speaker 1: there's some allegations of tampering because flyers were left on
Speaker 1: cars allegedly by yourself telling people, warning people about him.
Speaker 1: But then it turns out like that's another lie that
Speaker 1: he's tailing in court.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, he showed up in court and lied to
Speaker 3: a you know, a superior court judge, a crown attorney,
Speaker 3: his own attorney. It's crazy. Yeah, it's I think I
Speaker 3: say in the documentary, you know, during Lockdown, we watched
Speaker 3: I think almost every Law and Order because yeah, like
Speaker 3: I used to joke, I'm like I broke Netflix, like
Speaker 3: I broke the Internet TV because we watched so many shows.
Speaker 3: But somehow he got the idea, you know, between the
Speaker 3: flyers didn't come that date, Like everybody left court that day,
Speaker 3: and then it was two days later when court resumed
Speaker 3: that the flyers mysteriously like were found, and it gave
Speaker 3: so that little interlude gave him time to like and
Speaker 3: scheme and be like, how can I get out of this?
Speaker 3: You know, it was his hail Mary, because yeah, and
Speaker 3: it's crazy if you think about it, somebody would actually
Speaker 3: go that far to do it, But I mean people
Speaker 3: do all kinds of crazy things.
Speaker 2: How do you feel about his sentence?
Speaker 1: Because he will send its to two years in prison,
Speaker 1: three years' probation, and then, as you mentioned, he does
Speaker 1: have some cave. It's like he does have to pay
Speaker 1: your mum restitution for the stolen jewelry, and he also
Speaker 1: has to report to his probation officer every time he's
Speaker 1: in a new romantic relationship, which is going to be
Speaker 1: interesting to see how that's tracked after he gets out
Speaker 1: of prison. But like, how do you feel about that
Speaker 1: sentence because I guess from an outsider's perspective, it doesn't
Speaker 1: seem like a lot considering the amount of damage he
Speaker 1: did to so many people.
Speaker 3: I agree, and in fact, the judge gave more time
Speaker 3: than the Crown was asking for because I guess in Canada,
Speaker 3: I don't know what it's like in Australia, though we
Speaker 3: all come from British law, like our courts follow that system.
Speaker 3: But apparently in Canada it's miraculous that he even got
Speaker 3: the time he did. When you look at just if
Speaker 3: you're looking at just what was stolen, people don't go
Speaker 3: to jail for that long for stealing, you know things.
Speaker 1: That's the thing too, because he's charged with theft, but
Speaker 1: not really about all the other stuff.
Speaker 3: Because we didn't have all the evidence. And when he
Speaker 3: erased the computer that night after the police left a
Speaker 3: lot of stuff that I had screenshotted but had not
Speaker 3: retrieved off the computer got erased. Yes, so I think
Speaker 3: it was. In the end, it was like two counts
Speaker 3: of theft over five thousand and one count of crime
Speaker 3: over five thousand, which is great because again in Canada
Speaker 3: there's like theft and crime under five thousand is like
Speaker 3: one set of charges and then anything above five thousand
Speaker 3: becomes another. But I mean, the truth is, like I said,
Speaker 3: he is, he's still has three other outstanding criminal cases
Speaker 3: in three different areas, one being Leslie's watch, the other
Speaker 3: being these new charges. And there's something else that happened
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty two that I still don't even know
Speaker 3: what that's about. It has nothing to do with me.
Speaker 3: So he still has more charges, which I hope it
Speaker 3: adds more time on because also the way it works
Speaker 3: in Canada is it's crazy that I know this now,
Speaker 3: but he got two years less one day you go
Speaker 3: to provincial jail. Anything over two years you go to
Speaker 3: federal prison. Either way, neither are good, Like I don't
Speaker 3: think you want to be in either of those institutions.
Speaker 3: But I would love to see more time thrown at
Speaker 3: him for these other crimes that he's done. But I
Speaker 3: also think, you know, I heard somewhere when these guys
Speaker 3: like him go to prison jail, it's like college for criminals,
Speaker 3: and he's going to meet other scammers and other people
Speaker 3: while he's locked up, and he'll maybe come out with
Speaker 3: some new ideas, some new EMMO. Who knows. I don't
Speaker 3: know how effective the whole system is, Like, I don't
Speaker 3: know if people like him ever get fully rehabilitated. Yes,
Speaker 3: he deserves to be locked up, and I'm very glad
Speaker 3: he is, and I do feel like some justice was served,
Speaker 3: but it was I was hoping he would get like
Speaker 3: at least ten years and come out on an old man,
Speaker 3: but that didn't happen.
Speaker 1: How do you now start to rebuild and recover and
Speaker 1: step away from this? Because I presuming you can't fully
Speaker 1: ever step away from it with the sheer number of
Speaker 1: people who are attached to Jason Porter and you really
Speaker 1: being the face of his crimes now, I guess you're
Speaker 1: contacted by I don't know how many people on the
Speaker 1: regular who have been impacted by him, But like, can
Speaker 1: you step away from it now?
Speaker 2: Can you recover?
Speaker 1: And do you ever have another romantic relationship for as
Speaker 1: long as you live? Like, how do you move on
Speaker 1: from these?
Speaker 3: Well? I am dating and I'm very happy nice been
Speaker 3: seeing a lovely, lovely man, but it's been very slow
Speaker 3: because it is. It has been hard. It's really interesting.
Speaker 3: I talked to Leslie a lot about him and dating
Speaker 3: because she's gone through it too, and it takes time
Speaker 3: to it. Some days in the relationship it's like one
Speaker 3: step forward, two steps back, one step forward too, and
Speaker 3: it's it's not him, it's me, and I fully own it.
Speaker 3: And he gets in and thank God, he's so loving
Speaker 3: and patient and sees what I've gone through and he
Speaker 3: just wants to, you know, be supportive and make my
Speaker 3: life better. But it's it takes time, you know. I'm
Speaker 3: glad it's been over three years, right, so I've given
Speaker 3: myself a lot of time to process. But to answer
Speaker 3: the first part of the question, I still find myself
Speaker 3: going on the court dockets seeing when he'ssy up next
Speaker 3: in court, like what's going on. I don't know if
Speaker 3: I'd love to be able to say I've put it
Speaker 3: all behind me, but as long as there's still the
Speaker 3: outstanding matters, I'm still kind of connected to it, especially
Speaker 3: with the obstruction of justice charges with the Flyer, because
Speaker 3: I will be a witness at that trial if it
Speaker 3: goes to a trial. But I think one anyone who's
Speaker 3: ever been in my shoes or sadly might end up
Speaker 3: in my shoes. You just have to give yourself a
Speaker 3: lot of compassion. I'm very lucky I have incredible, Like
Speaker 3: I have the most amazing family and such a strong
Speaker 3: network of friends, and I've done a lot of therapy.
Speaker 3: You know, I walk my dog all the time because
Speaker 3: when I just have to clear my head, I'll go
Speaker 3: for a walk. But I really have this has definitely
Speaker 3: reprioritized things for me. You know, what would once seems
Speaker 3: so important isn't. And for me self care and health
Speaker 3: are like first and foremost. But yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I really, like I said earlier too, I do hope
Speaker 3: it would be really cool if more victims can come
Speaker 3: forward and if imagine if more charges could get laid
Speaker 3: against him and he did spend a long long time
Speaker 3: in jail, like that would be amazing. So we'll see.
Speaker 3: Its life is just a work in progress, right like
Speaker 3: one day at a time.
Speaker 1: Thank you to Heather for helping us tell her story.
Speaker 1: True Crime Conversations is a podcast hosted by me Clare
Speaker 1: Murphy and produced by Charlie Blackman, with audio designed by
Speaker 1: Jacob Brown. Thanks so much for listening. I'll be back
Speaker 1: next week with another Through Crime Conversation.