1 00:00:06,552 --> 00:00:10,072 Speaker 1: True crime Conversations acknowledges the traditional owners of land and 2 00:00:10,152 --> 00:00:13,992 Speaker 1: waters that this podcast was recorded on. It was a 3 00:00:14,072 --> 00:00:18,032 Speaker 1: quiet Tuesday morning in the Canadian city of Toronto. Heather 4 00:00:18,272 --> 00:00:21,631 Speaker 1: was straightening up her downtown condo, just starting her day. 5 00:00:22,072 --> 00:00:24,712 Speaker 1: It was another busy one. She's a real estate broker, 6 00:00:24,952 --> 00:00:28,792 Speaker 1: always on the move. This morning's task was a simple one. 7 00:00:29,152 --> 00:00:32,672 Speaker 1: Finally get those kitchen cabinets fixed. The hinges had been 8 00:00:32,672 --> 00:00:36,072 Speaker 1: loose for weeks, and the building manager had recommended someone, 9 00:00:36,272 --> 00:00:40,071 Speaker 1: a handyman named Jace. Right on time, there was a 10 00:00:40,111 --> 00:00:43,191 Speaker 1: knock at the door. Heather opened it to find a 11 00:00:43,232 --> 00:00:48,031 Speaker 1: man in his early forties, relaxed, athletic toolbag in hand. 12 00:00:48,711 --> 00:00:52,272 Speaker 1: He had that kind of calm, casual confidence that immediately 13 00:00:52,312 --> 00:00:55,352 Speaker 1: puts people at ease. He introduced himself with a smile 14 00:00:55,432 --> 00:00:58,472 Speaker 1: that seemed to land exactly where it was meant to. 15 00:00:59,152 --> 00:01:01,951 Speaker 1: Heather led him in, grateful to have one less thing 16 00:01:01,992 --> 00:01:05,312 Speaker 1: to worry about on her to do list. As he worked, 17 00:01:05,632 --> 00:01:10,112 Speaker 1: they chatted small stuff, favorite neighborhoods, local coffee shops, the 18 00:01:10,312 --> 00:01:13,872 Speaker 1: never ending strange charms of condo living. He was easy 19 00:01:13,872 --> 00:01:17,672 Speaker 1: to be around, funny present, the kind of guy who 20 00:01:17,911 --> 00:01:19,831 Speaker 1: made it easy to forget how long he'd been alone. 21 00:01:20,672 --> 00:01:25,472 Speaker 1: But while Jace tightened her cabinet hinges, his phone silenced 22 00:01:25,592 --> 00:01:30,112 Speaker 1: and faced down buzzed steadily on the counter beside him. 23 00:01:30,432 --> 00:01:35,911 Speaker 1: Because Jace wasn't just a handyman. He was actually Jason Porter, 24 00:01:36,472 --> 00:01:40,551 Speaker 1: a serial romance scammer known for slipping into women's lives, 25 00:01:40,712 --> 00:01:43,752 Speaker 1: winning their trust, and then disappearing with more than just 26 00:01:43,792 --> 00:01:47,592 Speaker 1: their hearts. Heather hadn't heard about him yet, but she 27 00:01:47,672 --> 00:01:51,872 Speaker 1: would in that moment. She had no idea how much 28 00:01:51,992 --> 00:01:55,472 Speaker 1: damage he could do, or how close she already was 29 00:01:55,792 --> 00:02:01,392 Speaker 1: to becoming his next target. I'm Claire Murphy and this 30 00:02:01,552 --> 00:02:04,992 Speaker 1: is True Crime Conversations, a podcast exploring the world's most 31 00:02:05,032 --> 00:02:08,032 Speaker 1: notorious crimes by speaking to the people who know the 32 00:02:08,112 --> 00:02:14,032 Speaker 1: most about them. Jason Porter scammed dozens, potentially hundreds of 33 00:02:14,072 --> 00:02:17,792 Speaker 1: women across Canada over more than a decade, using romance 34 00:02:17,792 --> 00:02:21,792 Speaker 1: scams as his primary method. He targeted women mostly through 35 00:02:21,872 --> 00:02:25,632 Speaker 1: dating apps like Plenty of Fish, Eharmonymatch dot Com, and Bumble, 36 00:02:25,992 --> 00:02:29,512 Speaker 1: often using fake names like Jay Stone, Donato, and Mike. 37 00:02:30,272 --> 00:02:33,392 Speaker 1: At the peak of his romance scam campaign, he had 38 00:02:33,592 --> 00:02:37,072 Speaker 1: hundreds of women on the hook, and when Heather unknowingly 39 00:02:37,192 --> 00:02:40,272 Speaker 1: stumbled into the midst of this complex ring of broken 40 00:02:40,272 --> 00:02:41,312 Speaker 1: hearts waiting to happen. 41 00:02:41,992 --> 00:02:43,512 Speaker 2: She would stop dead in her. 42 00:02:43,472 --> 00:02:48,032 Speaker 1: Tracks, seeing again and again words that she thought meant 43 00:02:48,032 --> 00:02:53,192 Speaker 1: only for her, repeated over and over and over again, 44 00:02:53,592 --> 00:02:57,832 Speaker 1: each unsuspecting victim falling for the exact same charm that 45 00:02:57,912 --> 00:03:02,472 Speaker 1: she had. While many women do not report being scammed 46 00:03:02,472 --> 00:03:05,352 Speaker 1: by someone who gets to them via dating apps, Heather 47 00:03:05,472 --> 00:03:09,192 Speaker 1: said the shame. I'm taking this guy down, even if 48 00:03:09,192 --> 00:03:12,472 Speaker 1: it's the last thing I do. But getting there would 49 00:03:12,712 --> 00:03:16,392 Speaker 1: not be easy, and Jace still had some tactics left 50 00:03:16,432 --> 00:03:19,032 Speaker 1: up his sleeve to try and once again get away 51 00:03:19,032 --> 00:03:23,592 Speaker 1: with innocent women's money while breaking their trust. Heather stars 52 00:03:23,592 --> 00:03:26,672 Speaker 1: in the Amazon Prime documentary Who the Heir Is Jason 53 00:03:26,752 --> 00:03:29,512 Speaker 1: Porter and talks to us now about the man she 54 00:03:29,712 --> 00:03:32,832 Speaker 1: thought she loved, the man who she would help put 55 00:03:32,872 --> 00:03:38,032 Speaker 1: behind bars. Heather, thank you so much for joining us 56 00:03:38,072 --> 00:03:43,312 Speaker 1: today after watching rom Con. I think the overarching feeling 57 00:03:43,352 --> 00:03:46,832 Speaker 1: we've gotten from seeing you talk about your experience of 58 00:03:46,992 --> 00:03:50,352 Speaker 1: being targeted by a romance scammer is like you are 59 00:03:50,552 --> 00:03:54,032 Speaker 1: such a boss lady, like you've been through the actual 60 00:03:54,072 --> 00:03:56,752 Speaker 1: worst and used it as feel for the fire like it. 61 00:03:56,832 --> 00:03:57,992 Speaker 2: Do you feel. 62 00:03:59,152 --> 00:04:01,872 Speaker 1: After your experience of not only what you went through 63 00:04:01,912 --> 00:04:05,152 Speaker 1: with Jason Porter, but also filming this documentary, do you 64 00:04:05,312 --> 00:04:06,512 Speaker 1: feel stronger on the. 65 00:04:06,512 --> 00:04:07,792 Speaker 2: Other side of your experience. 66 00:04:08,632 --> 00:04:12,912 Speaker 3: That's a good question. I do. After making the documentary 67 00:04:13,192 --> 00:04:20,432 Speaker 3: and going through the criminal justice system, I really feel 68 00:04:20,592 --> 00:04:22,952 Speaker 3: like I took one of the worst things that has 69 00:04:22,992 --> 00:04:25,671 Speaker 3: ever happened to me in my life. Well, actually know, 70 00:04:25,792 --> 00:04:30,592 Speaker 3: let me rephrase that this meeting, meeting Jay's at the 71 00:04:30,632 --> 00:04:33,352 Speaker 3: beginning was great, but when I learned the truth, that's 72 00:04:33,392 --> 00:04:38,672 Speaker 3: probably the worst thing in terms of something being unfair, 73 00:04:40,192 --> 00:04:43,512 Speaker 3: and by reclaiming it, it just it's given me my 74 00:04:43,632 --> 00:04:47,792 Speaker 3: power back. You know, I don't want to be Nobody 75 00:04:47,832 --> 00:04:50,432 Speaker 3: wants to wake up and be a victim. So if 76 00:04:50,472 --> 00:04:55,992 Speaker 3: you can take that victim hood and make it victorious, 77 00:04:56,512 --> 00:04:58,432 Speaker 3: it's it's a good thing. 78 00:04:59,032 --> 00:05:02,032 Speaker 1: Well, let's go back to when you did first meet 79 00:05:02,152 --> 00:05:06,312 Speaker 1: Jays because the way you describe it in the documentary, 80 00:05:06,552 --> 00:05:10,672 Speaker 1: Rome Con is like every woman's fantasy. 81 00:05:10,752 --> 00:05:12,792 Speaker 2: It's like romances that. 82 00:05:12,752 --> 00:05:15,952 Speaker 1: We read in books like can you explain to us 83 00:05:16,032 --> 00:05:22,032 Speaker 1: how he like initially grabbed your attention and kept hold. Yes, 84 00:05:22,392 --> 00:05:26,192 Speaker 1: it was like a Hollywood meet cute, you know, there. 85 00:05:26,192 --> 00:05:29,472 Speaker 3: I opened the door and there's this super cute guy. 86 00:05:30,752 --> 00:05:36,032 Speaker 3: He wasn't His predecessor was this chubby Eastern European guy 87 00:05:36,112 --> 00:05:40,632 Speaker 3: named ole egg Or Olaf and so I wasn't expecting 88 00:05:40,672 --> 00:05:42,671 Speaker 3: to open the door and just he's such a cutie 89 00:05:42,672 --> 00:05:48,231 Speaker 3: and he chase. I guess I could still say it 90 00:05:48,232 --> 00:05:51,512 Speaker 3: in the present. He is. He was so charming and 91 00:05:52,192 --> 00:05:58,552 Speaker 3: so flirtatious and not knowing who he was, and that 92 00:05:58,552 --> 00:06:02,312 Speaker 3: that's all part of his game. It's easy to get 93 00:06:02,792 --> 00:06:05,912 Speaker 3: hooked in, to get pulled into that, because I've never 94 00:06:05,952 --> 00:06:09,632 Speaker 3: had from the first day we met to when we 95 00:06:09,672 --> 00:06:11,872 Speaker 3: went on our first date, it was about two and 96 00:06:11,872 --> 00:06:14,632 Speaker 3: a half week lag, and I have every single text 97 00:06:14,632 --> 00:06:20,192 Speaker 3: message he has ever sent me and the in between 98 00:06:21,192 --> 00:06:24,032 Speaker 3: it was that was some of the spiciest, most flirtatious 99 00:06:24,032 --> 00:06:26,312 Speaker 3: texts we've ever sent one another back. And I thought 100 00:06:26,312 --> 00:06:29,072 Speaker 3: it was me and I was so special, But then 101 00:06:29,472 --> 00:06:33,152 Speaker 3: learning that that's what he said to Tiffany, and that's 102 00:06:33,192 --> 00:06:35,712 Speaker 3: what he said to Leslie, and that's what he has 103 00:06:35,792 --> 00:06:40,672 Speaker 3: on his online chats. It's his bible. I guess, it's 104 00:06:40,712 --> 00:06:44,712 Speaker 3: his you know, his playlist in a way, and he 105 00:06:44,832 --> 00:06:48,192 Speaker 3: obviously like it works. It worked. I was, I was 106 00:06:48,472 --> 00:06:52,671 Speaker 3: googly eyed. I was on cloud night for weeks and 107 00:06:52,752 --> 00:06:55,712 Speaker 3: months and even years with him. 108 00:06:55,792 --> 00:06:58,832 Speaker 1: I think that's what really like felt like a knife 109 00:06:58,832 --> 00:07:02,312 Speaker 1: to the gut when watching this all unfold was when 110 00:07:02,832 --> 00:07:04,952 Speaker 1: they do put up the comparisons between what he was 111 00:07:04,992 --> 00:07:07,072 Speaker 1: saying to you and what he was say saying to others, 112 00:07:07,712 --> 00:07:11,752 Speaker 1: which really matched almost word for word. But then the 113 00:07:11,792 --> 00:07:15,552 Speaker 1: story you tell about the night of your first date 114 00:07:15,592 --> 00:07:19,752 Speaker 1: when he first kisses you, is also the same story 115 00:07:20,512 --> 00:07:23,392 Speaker 1: shared by the other women, And that feels like such 116 00:07:23,392 --> 00:07:27,432 Speaker 1: an intimate and special moment. Can you just talk me 117 00:07:27,512 --> 00:07:31,352 Speaker 1: through first your first kiss with him, and then how 118 00:07:31,392 --> 00:07:35,672 Speaker 1: it feels to know that that exact same scenario has 119 00:07:35,712 --> 00:07:39,312 Speaker 1: played out for I mean, not even knowing how many 120 00:07:39,352 --> 00:07:39,832 Speaker 1: other women. 121 00:07:41,272 --> 00:07:44,952 Speaker 3: So yeah, we had gone out for dinner and it 122 00:07:44,992 --> 00:07:48,112 Speaker 3: was summer, so we walked. He came on his motorcycle 123 00:07:48,152 --> 00:07:50,912 Speaker 3: and we walked to a restaurant and walked home, and 124 00:07:51,032 --> 00:07:53,352 Speaker 3: he had left, you know, the motorcycle, helmet and the 125 00:07:53,912 --> 00:07:58,392 Speaker 3: infamous backpack in my place, and so we went up 126 00:07:58,552 --> 00:08:01,712 Speaker 3: and I just remember I actually had Baxi, my little 127 00:08:01,872 --> 00:08:04,672 Speaker 3: dog that's in the documentary. I was holding him and 128 00:08:04,712 --> 00:08:07,752 Speaker 3: we were sort of shuffling in the door way, and 129 00:08:07,792 --> 00:08:10,112 Speaker 3: it was one of those like oh, like is he 130 00:08:10,152 --> 00:08:13,032 Speaker 3: going to kiss me? Should I kiss him? And I 131 00:08:13,072 --> 00:08:14,992 Speaker 3: don't know what came over in me, but I leaned 132 00:08:15,032 --> 00:08:18,112 Speaker 3: in and just kind of went And that's when he 133 00:08:20,192 --> 00:08:22,952 Speaker 3: took Baxter, plopped him on the ground, dropped his helmet, 134 00:08:22,992 --> 00:08:25,872 Speaker 3: dropped his backpack, and literally pushed me up against the wall. 135 00:08:25,992 --> 00:08:29,592 Speaker 3: And when I say, it left me breathless, and it 136 00:08:29,712 --> 00:08:32,472 Speaker 3: left me weak. And then I have ever been kissed 137 00:08:32,472 --> 00:08:37,391 Speaker 3: like that. When I heard Tiffany's story, which was I 138 00:08:37,432 --> 00:08:41,912 Speaker 3: think around the same time as my first kiss, I 139 00:08:42,072 --> 00:08:51,792 Speaker 3: was floored. I it is wild that he did the 140 00:08:51,832 --> 00:08:54,432 Speaker 3: same thing to me, to her, to who knows how 141 00:08:54,432 --> 00:08:56,712 Speaker 3: many other women. For so many years, I thought I 142 00:08:56,832 --> 00:09:00,792 Speaker 3: was so special and that he made me feel special 143 00:09:01,032 --> 00:09:04,232 Speaker 3: because every day, day and day out, I would hear 144 00:09:04,992 --> 00:09:07,392 Speaker 3: You're the love of my life. You he he would 145 00:09:07,392 --> 00:09:09,072 Speaker 3: call me all the time throughout the day. And when 146 00:09:09,112 --> 00:09:10,632 Speaker 3: I was making I love you, BUYE, I love you, BUYE, 147 00:09:10,632 --> 00:09:13,392 Speaker 3: I love you BUYE. When you're told I love you, 148 00:09:13,472 --> 00:09:15,312 Speaker 3: I love you, I love you, you feel very special. 149 00:09:15,912 --> 00:09:22,432 Speaker 3: So to hear that my whole love story is just 150 00:09:23,992 --> 00:09:31,392 Speaker 3: a move. He has that he's perfected. It's pretty got wrenching, 151 00:09:32,592 --> 00:09:39,152 Speaker 3: but you know, to learn that I really wasn't special sucked. 152 00:09:39,472 --> 00:09:41,512 Speaker 3: I'm not gonna lie like, it really was awful. But 153 00:09:43,632 --> 00:09:46,872 Speaker 3: to rosso realized that any of the problems in the 154 00:09:46,912 --> 00:09:50,832 Speaker 3: relationship weren't me was also really kind of liberating. I 155 00:09:50,872 --> 00:09:55,752 Speaker 3: remember one day after learning the truth, I called my 156 00:09:55,832 --> 00:09:58,192 Speaker 3: mom and I was kind of laughing crying. I was like, 157 00:09:58,272 --> 00:10:00,792 Speaker 3: oh my god, it wasn't I didn't mess this up, Like, 158 00:10:00,832 --> 00:10:05,792 Speaker 3: it wasn't me, it was him. So from that perspective, 159 00:10:05,952 --> 00:10:10,352 Speaker 3: it was so bad. But you know, to be honest, 160 00:10:10,392 --> 00:10:14,392 Speaker 3: it took me a long time just to make sense 161 00:10:14,472 --> 00:10:17,072 Speaker 3: of it and to make peace with it. And there's 162 00:10:17,112 --> 00:10:19,472 Speaker 3: still some days where I'll say, it's like impossible to 163 00:10:19,472 --> 00:10:21,832 Speaker 3: make sense of something so sounds less. 164 00:10:22,712 --> 00:10:25,792 Speaker 1: I think what people want to understand the most out 165 00:10:25,832 --> 00:10:28,072 Speaker 1: of this, and especially for people who've been caught out before, 166 00:10:28,472 --> 00:10:31,872 Speaker 1: is where were you because you met him in twenty eighteen. 167 00:10:31,912 --> 00:10:34,872 Speaker 1: So what was the twenty eighteen version of Heather looking like? 168 00:10:34,952 --> 00:10:37,872 Speaker 1: Because from what I can gather, she was pretty happy 169 00:10:38,312 --> 00:10:42,992 Speaker 1: being solo and living life and being successful and wasn't 170 00:10:43,032 --> 00:10:45,192 Speaker 1: looking for a relationship at that point in time, and 171 00:10:45,192 --> 00:10:46,912 Speaker 1: in fact, you'd been single for quite a while by 172 00:10:46,952 --> 00:10:51,912 Speaker 1: that stage. So what made you the perfect victim for 173 00:10:52,032 --> 00:10:52,792 Speaker 1: Jason Porter? 174 00:10:52,912 --> 00:10:52,992 Speaker 3: Like? 175 00:10:53,032 --> 00:10:55,312 Speaker 2: What did he see in you that made you a 176 00:10:55,352 --> 00:10:55,992 Speaker 2: good target? 177 00:10:57,312 --> 00:10:59,712 Speaker 3: I think what made me a good target for him 178 00:10:59,872 --> 00:11:08,832 Speaker 3: was robbably that I coupled his like for every it's 179 00:11:08,872 --> 00:11:10,911 Speaker 3: like chest right like, for every move he did, I 180 00:11:10,912 --> 00:11:12,992 Speaker 3: would meet him there in the beginning, right like, So 181 00:11:13,032 --> 00:11:15,112 Speaker 3: if he flirted, I flirted back because I thought at 182 00:11:15,112 --> 00:11:18,872 Speaker 3: first it was just a game until it started getting serious. 183 00:11:18,912 --> 00:11:25,352 Speaker 3: But once we became physical and intimate, I was gone 184 00:11:25,552 --> 00:11:28,912 Speaker 3: because there were so many of those like feel good 185 00:11:29,632 --> 00:11:33,832 Speaker 3: hormones raging through my body that I couldn't even see straight. 186 00:11:34,912 --> 00:11:37,632 Speaker 3: So and like I say in the documentary, like all 187 00:11:37,632 --> 00:11:39,672 Speaker 3: of a sudden, like the little things in life, he 188 00:11:39,792 --> 00:11:42,151 Speaker 3: just had this way of making everything so much fun, 189 00:11:42,832 --> 00:11:45,352 Speaker 3: whether it was going on the motorcycle or going to 190 00:11:45,432 --> 00:11:48,232 Speaker 3: the grocery store or just now of a sudden, it's like, 191 00:11:48,272 --> 00:11:50,511 Speaker 3: oh my gosh, I have somebody just to you know, 192 00:11:50,672 --> 00:11:53,152 Speaker 3: make dinner and sit on the couch with Like it 193 00:11:53,272 --> 00:11:59,352 Speaker 3: was quite It was a nice welcome change from being solo. Heather, 194 00:12:00,032 --> 00:12:01,712 Speaker 3: and now I all of a sudden had somebody I 195 00:12:01,712 --> 00:12:04,952 Speaker 3: could talk to about my day and talk to about work, 196 00:12:05,072 --> 00:12:09,592 Speaker 3: you know, like I I. I had been in and 197 00:12:09,632 --> 00:12:11,432 Speaker 3: out of a relationship before I met him, and I 198 00:12:11,472 --> 00:12:16,472 Speaker 3: had this, you know, like a comfort flanket kind of friend, 199 00:12:16,552 --> 00:12:19,152 Speaker 3: you know, not really, I don't like the term friends 200 00:12:19,192 --> 00:12:21,072 Speaker 3: with benefits, but I did have somebody in my life 201 00:12:21,072 --> 00:12:24,952 Speaker 3: that while the into the the physical intimacy with that 202 00:12:24,992 --> 00:12:28,872 Speaker 3: person was gone, I still had him as a friend. Yeah, Jace, 203 00:12:29,032 --> 00:12:34,072 Speaker 3: just I don't know, he just when you're I'd never 204 00:12:34,152 --> 00:12:37,752 Speaker 3: felt like that before. I had never had somebody also 205 00:12:37,952 --> 00:12:43,552 Speaker 3: so quickly and openly and brazenly declare their love for 206 00:12:43,672 --> 00:12:46,952 Speaker 3: me and tell me how incredible. I was like, it's 207 00:12:48,352 --> 00:12:51,992 Speaker 3: messes with your brain, but it also, not knowing what 208 00:12:52,072 --> 00:12:56,391 Speaker 3: he was doing, it felt incredible. Why wouldn't I want 209 00:12:56,432 --> 00:12:59,792 Speaker 3: to see where this went? I remember, probably like a 210 00:12:59,872 --> 00:13:02,952 Speaker 3: month after meeting him, walking down the street and I 211 00:13:03,032 --> 00:13:04,512 Speaker 3: ran into a friend I hadn't seen in a while, 212 00:13:04,512 --> 00:13:06,592 Speaker 3: and she was like, oh my god, you're glowing like 213 00:13:06,672 --> 00:13:09,752 Speaker 3: I'm in love. I'm in love, like I owned being 214 00:13:09,752 --> 00:13:11,752 Speaker 3: in love like a new badge. I was just like, 215 00:13:12,112 --> 00:13:13,792 Speaker 3: you gotta fall in love. It's the best thing ever 216 00:13:13,872 --> 00:13:20,592 Speaker 3: because it felt incredible, and it's sad that it really 217 00:13:20,672 --> 00:13:26,552 Speaker 3: wasn't real, but in the moment it arn't knowing it 218 00:13:26,632 --> 00:13:28,152 Speaker 3: was great. 219 00:13:28,472 --> 00:13:31,112 Speaker 2: What did he creative himself? 220 00:13:31,552 --> 00:13:36,271 Speaker 1: Because he span a lot of stories that created this 221 00:13:36,432 --> 00:13:40,272 Speaker 1: vision of who Jay s Peretti as he called himself. 222 00:13:40,312 --> 00:13:43,592 Speaker 1: They're not Jason Porter, Like, what was he telling you 223 00:13:43,632 --> 00:13:47,912 Speaker 1: about himself? And if you could explain to how that 224 00:13:47,992 --> 00:13:51,392 Speaker 1: didn't just reel you in, but also your friends and 225 00:13:51,512 --> 00:13:54,752 Speaker 1: family to a point too, because he was creating this 226 00:13:54,912 --> 00:13:57,232 Speaker 1: version of a human that didn't exist, which was quite 227 00:13:57,232 --> 00:13:58,952 Speaker 1: appealing to everybody. 228 00:13:59,592 --> 00:14:04,512 Speaker 3: I think with Jess, I'd like to think that when 229 00:14:04,512 --> 00:14:07,232 Speaker 3: he was in prison as Jason Porter, you probably had 230 00:14:07,232 --> 00:14:08,952 Speaker 3: a lot of time to sit around and think, and 231 00:14:08,992 --> 00:14:13,192 Speaker 3: I think he crafted up these tall tales. So when 232 00:14:13,232 --> 00:14:16,112 Speaker 3: he first got out of federal prison, he changed his 233 00:14:16,152 --> 00:14:20,952 Speaker 3: name from Jason Porter to Jason Parati. And then by 234 00:14:20,952 --> 00:14:23,792 Speaker 3: the time I met him, Parati had morphed into Parati. 235 00:14:24,512 --> 00:14:28,392 Speaker 3: And when I met him that day that first stay 236 00:14:28,392 --> 00:14:30,632 Speaker 3: at my condo, and he right away told me he 237 00:14:30,632 --> 00:14:33,552 Speaker 3: had gone to the University of Waterloo and he was 238 00:14:33,832 --> 00:14:36,272 Speaker 3: really a software engineer. But because of what he was 239 00:14:36,792 --> 00:14:38,952 Speaker 3: navigating with the family court system, he was just taking 240 00:14:38,952 --> 00:14:42,192 Speaker 3: a break from corporate world. So when he would share 241 00:14:42,232 --> 00:14:44,712 Speaker 3: his tall tales of living in China and living in 242 00:14:44,792 --> 00:14:50,592 Speaker 3: Japan and working at this job, being in my mid 243 00:14:51,032 --> 00:14:54,352 Speaker 3: to late forties, I have a lot of that back then, 244 00:14:54,392 --> 00:14:57,672 Speaker 3: Like I have a lot of successful friends. I was successful, 245 00:14:57,792 --> 00:15:02,032 Speaker 3: I am successful. So they were believable stories. So, you know, 246 00:15:02,072 --> 00:15:04,112 Speaker 3: for him to say, oh, I lived, I worked at 247 00:15:04,152 --> 00:15:06,312 Speaker 3: this company and I lived in China, well, of course 248 00:15:06,392 --> 00:15:09,872 Speaker 3: you did. Why wouldn't you, You know, I have been 249 00:15:10,752 --> 00:15:14,232 Speaker 3: I think, like most people, like, I meet people and 250 00:15:14,592 --> 00:15:19,112 Speaker 3: I don't think right off bout oh he's lying there, 251 00:15:19,232 --> 00:15:21,392 Speaker 3: they're not. You know, you take people at their word, 252 00:15:21,632 --> 00:15:23,952 Speaker 3: at their face value. So of course I believed him 253 00:15:24,032 --> 00:15:28,392 Speaker 3: that he had all these great stories. I mean even 254 00:15:28,552 --> 00:15:31,432 Speaker 3: you know, the way he wooed my mom was, you know, 255 00:15:31,472 --> 00:15:34,872 Speaker 3: both my parents are really into history, and the stories 256 00:15:34,872 --> 00:15:38,512 Speaker 3: of his both his Italian grandparents fighting for the Allies 257 00:15:38,552 --> 00:15:42,472 Speaker 3: in World War Two. Literally one of the stories that 258 00:15:42,512 --> 00:15:45,192 Speaker 3: he told us it's exactly the same as the Great Escape, 259 00:15:45,272 --> 00:15:49,072 Speaker 3: that famous movie. Wow. Okay, yeah, And my mom even 260 00:15:49,112 --> 00:15:50,552 Speaker 3: said that one night at dinner, She's like, sounds like 261 00:15:50,592 --> 00:15:52,552 Speaker 3: the Great Escape. He's like, it is like the Great Escape, 262 00:15:52,592 --> 00:15:54,872 Speaker 3: but that was my grandfather. They based that on him 263 00:15:54,872 --> 00:15:57,752 Speaker 3: and all those other people, and we're like, oh wow. 264 00:15:57,912 --> 00:16:00,432 Speaker 3: I mean it's now that we know who he is, 265 00:16:00,472 --> 00:16:03,272 Speaker 3: it's completely far fetched and alive. But at the time 266 00:16:03,832 --> 00:16:08,952 Speaker 3: we were just like, wow, like he just you know, 267 00:16:09,032 --> 00:16:13,272 Speaker 3: they say sometimes there's like nuggets of truth in the lies, 268 00:16:14,192 --> 00:16:19,952 Speaker 3: but most of his stories I think they're from books, movies, 269 00:16:20,192 --> 00:16:23,592 Speaker 3: who knows, but it's pretty much all lies. 270 00:16:23,952 --> 00:16:25,272 Speaker 1: I mean, I know you said he probably had some 271 00:16:25,312 --> 00:16:27,672 Speaker 1: time in prison to really think about things and spin 272 00:16:27,792 --> 00:16:31,032 Speaker 1: these stories in his own mind. But I imagine, like 273 00:16:31,072 --> 00:16:33,192 Speaker 1: a young man doesn't just wake up one day and 274 00:16:33,832 --> 00:16:38,112 Speaker 1: he's really great at making women believe that he's this amazing, 275 00:16:38,232 --> 00:16:41,792 Speaker 1: wonderful boyfriend. Material Like, any idea where he might have 276 00:16:42,632 --> 00:16:45,832 Speaker 1: learnt this behavior or is there any idea from like 277 00:16:45,992 --> 00:16:48,792 Speaker 1: his family. Have they ever spoken about maybe what he 278 00:16:48,872 --> 00:16:50,392 Speaker 1: was like when he was a younger man. Do you 279 00:16:50,432 --> 00:16:53,352 Speaker 1: have any concept of where he would have learnt this behavior? 280 00:16:54,792 --> 00:16:58,312 Speaker 3: You know, I've never spoken to anyone in his family. 281 00:16:59,552 --> 00:17:00,392 Speaker 3: I would love to. 282 00:17:01,032 --> 00:17:02,952 Speaker 2: Even though you're together for quite a few years. 283 00:17:03,032 --> 00:17:08,071 Speaker 3: Right, yeah, Oh, that definitely, I mean, but that was 284 00:17:08,152 --> 00:17:12,552 Speaker 3: also like, now that's a glaring red flag that I've 285 00:17:12,591 --> 00:17:15,992 Speaker 3: never met his family, but he again, he had when 286 00:17:16,032 --> 00:17:17,631 Speaker 3: I would say, like, what's up with your brother? Why 287 00:17:17,631 --> 00:17:19,351 Speaker 3: can't we meet? You know, let's go meet your brother, 288 00:17:19,952 --> 00:17:22,631 Speaker 3: he had a whole story as to why we weren't 289 00:17:22,831 --> 00:17:25,792 Speaker 3: you know, why him and his brother were estranged right now, 290 00:17:25,831 --> 00:17:28,311 Speaker 3: And he had this way of like turning it around. 291 00:17:28,351 --> 00:17:31,552 Speaker 3: So then you just felt so bad for kind of 292 00:17:31,712 --> 00:17:36,671 Speaker 3: stirring the pot and making him feel bad, you know. 293 00:17:36,752 --> 00:17:39,711 Speaker 3: But that's what gaslighting is. But I didn't know that 294 00:17:39,831 --> 00:17:43,552 Speaker 3: at the time. I have no idea because he does 295 00:17:43,591 --> 00:17:49,711 Speaker 3: have a brother who I've never met, but I've learned 296 00:17:49,831 --> 00:17:52,512 Speaker 3: enough about him since to know, like his brother is 297 00:17:52,552 --> 00:17:55,151 Speaker 3: a normal person with a wife and kids. Like how 298 00:17:55,192 --> 00:17:59,232 Speaker 3: can a family have one child who's so mendacious and 299 00:17:59,351 --> 00:18:04,712 Speaker 3: one who's normal. I mean, I don't know. I'd love 300 00:18:04,752 --> 00:18:08,512 Speaker 3: to one day learn the tr ruths to all his backstory. 301 00:18:08,631 --> 00:18:12,952 Speaker 3: But you know, his parents are dead. I actually, through 302 00:18:12,992 --> 00:18:17,552 Speaker 3: our whole relationship, was under the impression that his biological 303 00:18:17,591 --> 00:18:20,792 Speaker 3: father was still alive, because he used to talk about 304 00:18:20,831 --> 00:18:23,272 Speaker 3: his dad as if he were still alive. But any 305 00:18:23,311 --> 00:18:27,391 Speaker 3: parental figure in his life is gone, you know, And 306 00:18:27,512 --> 00:18:30,672 Speaker 3: that's The other question with all this, are these psychopaths 307 00:18:30,671 --> 00:18:32,672 Speaker 3: born this way or is it a learned behavior? 308 00:18:33,752 --> 00:18:38,591 Speaker 1: I don't know, he said, like that was an obvious 309 00:18:38,591 --> 00:18:41,151 Speaker 1: red flag and the beauty of hindsight as you can 310 00:18:41,192 --> 00:18:45,191 Speaker 1: probably identify a ton of red flags now looking back. 311 00:18:45,871 --> 00:18:50,272 Speaker 1: But where any of your friends or family noticing suspicious 312 00:18:50,311 --> 00:18:53,952 Speaker 1: behaviors during the start of your relationship. Did anyone ever 313 00:18:53,992 --> 00:18:57,992 Speaker 1: say to you, maybe this guy's not quite right? 314 00:18:59,512 --> 00:19:03,431 Speaker 3: No? I mean, in the documentary, my good friend Kristen 315 00:19:03,871 --> 00:19:08,191 Speaker 3: shares how she would talk to him at length about 316 00:19:08,952 --> 00:19:10,911 Speaker 3: she would grow him on China because she goes to 317 00:19:11,032 --> 00:19:13,632 Speaker 3: China or she used to a lot, and for as 318 00:19:13,631 --> 00:19:15,272 Speaker 3: she says, for a guy who lived in China for 319 00:19:15,311 --> 00:19:20,512 Speaker 3: two years to no Mandarin and know really nothing. To her, 320 00:19:20,552 --> 00:19:26,471 Speaker 3: it was suspicious. But you know, nobody told me because 321 00:19:26,512 --> 00:19:30,511 Speaker 3: I think I was just so happy, Like I was 322 00:19:30,591 --> 00:19:34,671 Speaker 3: really happy, and I don't think anyone wanted to burst 323 00:19:34,752 --> 00:19:37,951 Speaker 3: my bubble, so they just sort of kept their thoughts 324 00:19:37,992 --> 00:19:43,231 Speaker 3: to themselves. Had they shared this with me, I would 325 00:19:43,671 --> 00:19:49,472 Speaker 3: like to think I would have listened, But it's hard 326 00:19:49,512 --> 00:19:55,272 Speaker 3: to say, right because you know, with Kristen, he made 327 00:19:55,311 --> 00:19:57,631 Speaker 3: it very clear how he felt about her. He and 328 00:19:57,671 --> 00:19:59,111 Speaker 3: he would say things like, I don't think she's a 329 00:19:59,111 --> 00:20:01,751 Speaker 3: good friend for you. She's not a healthy person. So 330 00:20:01,792 --> 00:20:03,591 Speaker 3: he would flip it around, so I would start to 331 00:20:03,671 --> 00:20:06,311 Speaker 3: question my friendship. She's one of the most loyal people 332 00:20:06,431 --> 00:20:08,751 Speaker 3: in the world, Like we're still very, very close to 333 00:20:08,792 --> 00:20:14,391 Speaker 3: this day. I adore her. You know, it's crazy to 334 00:20:14,552 --> 00:20:21,071 Speaker 3: think that that's what they do. They weaponize everything, love, friends, family, 335 00:20:21,552 --> 00:20:23,711 Speaker 3: They isolate. I mean, it's one of their tactics. They do, 336 00:20:23,911 --> 00:20:26,751 Speaker 3: try to isolate you, and in our case, the pandemic 337 00:20:26,952 --> 00:20:32,871 Speaker 3: that perfectly into it, you know, And I mean, there's 338 00:20:33,311 --> 00:20:35,472 Speaker 3: it's crazy to me, Like there's times where I've wondered, 339 00:20:37,192 --> 00:20:39,591 Speaker 3: did he have some insight into what was happening with 340 00:20:39,671 --> 00:20:43,631 Speaker 3: the world before the rest of us, because we were, 341 00:20:43,911 --> 00:20:47,552 Speaker 3: you know, that whole Italy trip. We were supposed to 342 00:20:47,591 --> 00:20:52,351 Speaker 3: have gone to Italy early March, like two weeks before 343 00:20:52,351 --> 00:20:54,911 Speaker 3: the world shot down, but he about a month before 344 00:20:54,952 --> 00:20:57,311 Speaker 3: we were supposed to go. You know, he came home 345 00:20:57,351 --> 00:20:59,231 Speaker 3: one day and he was like, oh my god, you know, 346 00:20:59,272 --> 00:21:03,071 Speaker 3: the family court is now happening when we're supposed to 347 00:21:03,111 --> 00:21:06,191 Speaker 3: go to Italy. So it's all just I don't know, 348 00:21:06,391 --> 00:21:08,791 Speaker 3: It's like it's just to this day all a bit 349 00:21:08,831 --> 00:21:13,511 Speaker 3: of a mystery. But yeah, he's I don't know, like 350 00:21:13,911 --> 00:21:16,951 Speaker 3: was he born that way? I don't know. Maybe. 351 00:21:18,111 --> 00:21:20,751 Speaker 1: Up next, Heather describes what life was like once she 352 00:21:20,831 --> 00:21:23,552 Speaker 1: and Jason moved in together, and how more cracks in 353 00:21:23,631 --> 00:21:24,392 Speaker 1: his story. 354 00:21:24,151 --> 00:21:29,552 Speaker 2: Started to show when the pandemic hit. 355 00:21:30,351 --> 00:21:34,712 Speaker 1: You move in together, and so you're spending like really 356 00:21:34,752 --> 00:21:39,111 Speaker 1: long periods of time to start within a small apartment together, 357 00:21:39,712 --> 00:21:42,512 Speaker 1: and then you move into a bigger property further out 358 00:21:42,512 --> 00:21:45,912 Speaker 1: of the city. But I imagine it would have been more 359 00:21:45,952 --> 00:21:47,951 Speaker 1: difficult for him to cover up because it's not like 360 00:21:47,992 --> 00:21:52,311 Speaker 1: he stopped being a scammer for other women during the pandemic. 361 00:21:52,391 --> 00:21:55,191 Speaker 1: In fact, it continued on just as it did beforehand. 362 00:21:55,752 --> 00:21:58,992 Speaker 1: But he's not as free to physically. 363 00:21:58,472 --> 00:21:59,512 Speaker 2: Spend time with other women. 364 00:22:00,391 --> 00:22:01,672 Speaker 1: But it would have been harder for him to cover 365 00:22:01,752 --> 00:22:03,911 Speaker 1: his tracks while you are in a small space with 366 00:22:03,992 --> 00:22:06,272 Speaker 1: him at all times, Like, did you ever see any 367 00:22:06,311 --> 00:22:09,071 Speaker 1: anything that made you wonder or think it was he 368 00:22:09,192 --> 00:22:12,591 Speaker 1: really just that good at keeping things separate because he 369 00:22:12,712 --> 00:22:14,471 Speaker 1: was doing so many things at once, which is what 370 00:22:14,591 --> 00:22:17,752 Speaker 1: I think really surprised me that he's able to keep 371 00:22:17,792 --> 00:22:22,391 Speaker 1: so many women on the hook. Manipulating so many taking 372 00:22:22,431 --> 00:22:25,991 Speaker 1: things from them like physical items, but also you know, 373 00:22:26,111 --> 00:22:28,591 Speaker 1: money and lots of other things, Like how is he 374 00:22:28,831 --> 00:22:31,952 Speaker 1: managing all of that whilst also existing in a pandemic 375 00:22:31,992 --> 00:22:32,471 Speaker 1: state with you? 376 00:22:34,111 --> 00:22:38,032 Speaker 3: So even like before the pandemic, I remember, it would 377 00:22:38,032 --> 00:22:40,351 Speaker 3: have been probably in the first six months of our relationship, 378 00:22:40,752 --> 00:22:43,232 Speaker 3: you know, with his backstory being that he had worked 379 00:22:43,272 --> 00:22:46,071 Speaker 3: in China. He came home and he's like, oh, I've 380 00:22:46,071 --> 00:22:49,711 Speaker 3: picked up a small contracting gig for that company, but 381 00:22:49,831 --> 00:22:52,071 Speaker 3: because of the time change, I'm going to have to 382 00:22:52,192 --> 00:22:56,831 Speaker 3: like stay up late. I'm like, okay, So I would 383 00:22:56,831 --> 00:22:59,031 Speaker 3: go to bed at a normal time and he would 384 00:22:59,232 --> 00:23:02,512 Speaker 3: stay up half the night. So I think that's when 385 00:23:02,591 --> 00:23:05,151 Speaker 3: he would be engaging with a lot of these you know, 386 00:23:05,192 --> 00:23:07,951 Speaker 3: he probably then had the app but who's kiddingho like 387 00:23:07,992 --> 00:23:09,951 Speaker 3: he's addicted to his phone. Probably when he went to 388 00:23:09,992 --> 00:23:12,311 Speaker 3: the bathroom, he would have his phone and be on 389 00:23:12,351 --> 00:23:16,512 Speaker 3: the apps texting people. But you know, when we hit lockdown, 390 00:23:17,272 --> 00:23:21,352 Speaker 3: Within probably two weeks of the lockdown or less, he 391 00:23:21,472 --> 00:23:25,271 Speaker 3: started looking for a moonlighting job, as he called it, 392 00:23:25,591 --> 00:23:28,471 Speaker 3: and he was able to because not I don't know 393 00:23:28,512 --> 00:23:31,831 Speaker 3: what it was like in Australia, but in Canada, you know, 394 00:23:32,351 --> 00:23:37,311 Speaker 3: certain things were deemed essential services, and I think construction 395 00:23:37,712 --> 00:23:40,151 Speaker 3: I believe must have fallen into that because he was 396 00:23:40,192 --> 00:23:46,871 Speaker 3: able to get a moonlighting, cash paying job working renovating 397 00:23:46,871 --> 00:23:50,711 Speaker 3: a nightclub. Just next door to Toronto is a little 398 00:23:51,272 --> 00:23:53,511 Speaker 3: a smaller city called Mississauga, so he was going out 399 00:23:53,552 --> 00:23:57,671 Speaker 3: to Mississauga. So that gave him also a lot of 400 00:23:57,712 --> 00:24:01,792 Speaker 3: freedom to claim he was, you know, working late or 401 00:24:01,792 --> 00:24:04,391 Speaker 3: doing this or doing that, and go on dates. And 402 00:24:04,431 --> 00:24:08,032 Speaker 3: there was one weekend in there that I remember, and 403 00:24:08,192 --> 00:24:10,231 Speaker 3: this isn't in the documentary, so I'm probably not supposed 404 00:24:10,232 --> 00:24:12,831 Speaker 3: to talk about it, but the guys who hired him 405 00:24:12,871 --> 00:24:15,752 Speaker 3: for the nightclub, apparently they were having a guy's weekend 406 00:24:15,792 --> 00:24:19,231 Speaker 3: to go and race sports cars and motorcycles at a 407 00:24:19,311 --> 00:24:23,032 Speaker 3: track east of the city. And I was like, go, like, 408 00:24:23,431 --> 00:24:25,711 Speaker 3: you know, go have fun. Why not, it's a guy's weekend. 409 00:24:26,232 --> 00:24:29,831 Speaker 3: But it wasn't a guy's weekend because after the article 410 00:24:29,871 --> 00:24:34,432 Speaker 3: came out, a woman emailed me and it was confirmed 411 00:24:34,671 --> 00:24:38,391 Speaker 3: that that guy's weekend he was actually with another woman. 412 00:24:38,911 --> 00:24:42,311 Speaker 3: So I think, to answer your question, the pandemic actually 413 00:24:42,391 --> 00:24:48,391 Speaker 3: gave him more power more, you know, if anything, my 414 00:24:48,472 --> 00:24:52,111 Speaker 3: guard would be even more down because I'm locked up 415 00:24:52,192 --> 00:24:54,911 Speaker 3: and what am I going to do? So I never 416 00:24:55,032 --> 00:24:58,512 Speaker 3: I never questioned what he was doing. Never in a 417 00:24:58,552 --> 00:25:00,071 Speaker 3: million years thought he was cheating on me. 418 00:25:00,232 --> 00:25:02,591 Speaker 1: Yeah, is it cheating if he was never really in 419 00:25:02,631 --> 00:25:04,191 Speaker 1: that relationship in the first place? 420 00:25:04,911 --> 00:25:08,151 Speaker 2: Maybe not. After the pandemic, you're spending a bit. 421 00:25:07,992 --> 00:25:12,392 Speaker 1: Of time out on your parents' farm, and one day 422 00:25:12,431 --> 00:25:15,151 Speaker 1: your mom notices that a lot of her jewelry is missing, 423 00:25:15,671 --> 00:25:17,792 Speaker 1: stuff that had been in a safe that was unlocked 424 00:25:18,311 --> 00:25:19,872 Speaker 1: from her rooms. 425 00:25:21,431 --> 00:25:22,272 Speaker 2: In the beginning. 426 00:25:23,351 --> 00:25:28,111 Speaker 1: It's very much like no one is even considering that 427 00:25:28,351 --> 00:25:31,351 Speaker 1: Jace might have taken these things, And in fact, your 428 00:25:31,391 --> 00:25:34,272 Speaker 1: mum talks in the documentary about confronting the cleaner about it, 429 00:25:34,311 --> 00:25:36,952 Speaker 1: who told her that Jace had taken them, and she 430 00:25:37,111 --> 00:25:40,672 Speaker 1: still couldn't believe that that was the case. When you 431 00:25:40,792 --> 00:25:44,151 Speaker 1: heard that from your mum what the cleaner had told you, 432 00:25:44,232 --> 00:25:46,591 Speaker 1: did any part of you at any stage start to 433 00:25:47,591 --> 00:25:50,111 Speaker 1: consider that maybe it was him, or were you so 434 00:25:50,431 --> 00:25:53,671 Speaker 1: happy and stable in that relationship that you thought that 435 00:25:53,712 --> 00:25:55,712 Speaker 1: there was no way that could potentially. 436 00:25:55,272 --> 00:25:59,032 Speaker 3: Be what happened. My mom never told me about confronting 437 00:25:59,071 --> 00:26:02,911 Speaker 3: the cleaning lady when it was happening. It was. I 438 00:26:03,192 --> 00:26:07,111 Speaker 3: learned about it after the fact that the cleaning lady 439 00:26:07,232 --> 00:26:12,792 Speaker 3: had quit. We were all surprised when I got into 440 00:26:12,792 --> 00:26:17,351 Speaker 3: the computer and started seeing you know, emails for like 441 00:26:17,752 --> 00:26:22,111 Speaker 3: this ring, that brace, like it was. I could not 442 00:26:22,472 --> 00:26:28,511 Speaker 3: believe what I was seeing. I think because again he 443 00:26:28,631 --> 00:26:31,912 Speaker 3: was with my mom's stuff, Like none of us wear 444 00:26:31,952 --> 00:26:34,192 Speaker 3: all our jewelry all the time, right, So I don't 445 00:26:34,232 --> 00:26:37,631 Speaker 3: think she noticed it was happening until one day she 446 00:26:38,272 --> 00:26:38,871 Speaker 3: noticed it. 447 00:26:39,552 --> 00:26:41,311 Speaker 2: So this could have been going on for months. 448 00:26:41,472 --> 00:26:42,752 Speaker 3: I do you know it was going on for months 449 00:26:42,792 --> 00:26:44,751 Speaker 3: and months because of some of the evidence I found, 450 00:26:44,952 --> 00:26:48,871 Speaker 3: it was dated as such. Right, the first thing that 451 00:26:49,552 --> 00:26:54,232 Speaker 3: went missing actually was in the fall of twenty nineteen. 452 00:26:54,831 --> 00:26:58,991 Speaker 3: That's how long I was going on for. And yeah, 453 00:26:59,111 --> 00:27:03,952 Speaker 3: I think Jace probably figured out like where the things 454 00:27:03,992 --> 00:27:07,991 Speaker 3: were kept, and you know, like that little safe was, 455 00:27:08,272 --> 00:27:12,071 Speaker 3: and when we would go for a visit or he 456 00:27:12,111 --> 00:27:14,992 Speaker 3: would you know, go up on his own, and my 457 00:27:15,071 --> 00:27:17,032 Speaker 3: mom would be like, you know, here's the key, here's 458 00:27:17,071 --> 00:27:19,552 Speaker 3: the alarm code, let yourself in, make yourself a coffee. 459 00:27:20,151 --> 00:27:23,431 Speaker 3: Because she trusted him. I think it was so easy. 460 00:27:23,591 --> 00:27:25,032 Speaker 3: He was like a kid in a candy store. He 461 00:27:25,032 --> 00:27:27,032 Speaker 3: couldn't help himself. He would just go and take one 462 00:27:27,071 --> 00:27:28,512 Speaker 3: thing and then he could sell it and he'd have 463 00:27:28,552 --> 00:27:30,111 Speaker 3: a bit of money, and then he would take another 464 00:27:30,151 --> 00:27:33,552 Speaker 3: thing and sell it. So it took. It wasn't until 465 00:27:33,631 --> 00:27:36,071 Speaker 3: like that one day that they really went through all 466 00:27:36,192 --> 00:27:38,552 Speaker 3: the bags and they were like, oh my god, it's 467 00:27:38,831 --> 00:27:44,472 Speaker 3: and when we still didn't know what it was Jase 468 00:27:44,552 --> 00:27:47,191 Speaker 3: until like a couple months later, after all that happened, 469 00:27:47,232 --> 00:27:51,272 Speaker 3: like it was. It was shocking. It was shocking. I couldn't. 470 00:27:51,671 --> 00:27:53,912 Speaker 3: I didn't. I didn't have the heart to actually tell 471 00:27:53,952 --> 00:27:55,831 Speaker 3: my parents it was Jase. I made my sister do 472 00:27:55,911 --> 00:28:02,071 Speaker 3: it because I was so upset. I was devastated. I 473 00:28:02,151 --> 00:28:06,751 Speaker 3: was devastated, and I my sister had come to my 474 00:28:06,792 --> 00:28:09,751 Speaker 3: house and Aurora with her boyfriend, and I was like, Jenny, 475 00:28:09,831 --> 00:28:11,911 Speaker 3: you have to tell her. I can't. I didn't have 476 00:28:11,992 --> 00:28:17,151 Speaker 3: the heart. I was so ashamed. I was so like 477 00:28:17,272 --> 00:28:19,071 Speaker 3: I brought the monster into our home. 478 00:28:20,071 --> 00:28:22,631 Speaker 1: That must be so hard to still come to terms 479 00:28:22,631 --> 00:28:25,911 Speaker 1: with that. Can see during the documentary how emotionally difficult 480 00:28:25,911 --> 00:28:27,552 Speaker 1: it is for you to think about that. 481 00:28:29,272 --> 00:28:33,191 Speaker 3: It really really is. And yeah, there's the part in 482 00:28:33,232 --> 00:28:36,951 Speaker 3: the documentary where my mom says when he's she realized 483 00:28:36,992 --> 00:28:40,512 Speaker 3: her both her wedding bands were gone. It's like part 484 00:28:40,512 --> 00:28:43,671 Speaker 3: of her marriage, the memories of her marriage are gone. 485 00:28:44,832 --> 00:28:50,872 Speaker 3: And you know, now, especially with my dad not being here, 486 00:28:51,512 --> 00:28:54,952 Speaker 3: that's that's the worst thing. Like when I said earlier, 487 00:28:57,992 --> 00:28:59,911 Speaker 3: learning that my life with Jase was a lie, that 488 00:29:00,072 --> 00:29:04,192 Speaker 3: was like a really awful, awful thing, But it's losing 489 00:29:04,232 --> 00:29:06,711 Speaker 3: your parent is like such a different kind of pain. 490 00:29:07,752 --> 00:29:10,112 Speaker 3: I mean, I would take the pain of what I 491 00:29:10,312 --> 00:29:13,032 Speaker 3: discovered with Jase over and over again if it meant 492 00:29:13,032 --> 00:29:18,032 Speaker 3: my dad were still here. And when we finally were 493 00:29:18,032 --> 00:29:21,112 Speaker 3: going through the court and he, you know it said 494 00:29:21,232 --> 00:29:25,312 Speaker 3: he did. Eventually, after three years and three months, he 495 00:29:25,392 --> 00:29:30,352 Speaker 3: pled guilty. We got to read victim impact statements and 496 00:29:31,671 --> 00:29:35,832 Speaker 3: both of us would say, it's not the monetary value 497 00:29:35,872 --> 00:29:38,832 Speaker 3: of what he stole, it's that it's the memories, Like 498 00:29:39,032 --> 00:29:41,952 Speaker 3: we're never my mom's never going to get that back, 499 00:29:42,312 --> 00:29:46,191 Speaker 3: none of us are. There's nothing for her that you know. 500 00:29:46,952 --> 00:29:49,072 Speaker 3: Every time my dad would give her something, it was 501 00:29:49,352 --> 00:29:52,231 Speaker 3: a representation of an anniversary or a birthday or a 502 00:29:52,272 --> 00:29:57,592 Speaker 3: trip like to commemorate that memory. And now that's all gone, 503 00:29:57,671 --> 00:30:00,592 Speaker 3: and there's nothing to pass on to my sister or 504 00:30:00,632 --> 00:30:03,752 Speaker 3: myself or my niece, like there's no heirlooms anymore. He 505 00:30:04,232 --> 00:30:10,312 Speaker 3: Jace wiped that out. And I remember I was at 506 00:30:10,431 --> 00:30:12,792 Speaker 3: a movie with my parents and one of the preview 507 00:30:12,832 --> 00:30:16,112 Speaker 3: ads was for Tiffany and my mom like gasps, like 508 00:30:16,192 --> 00:30:21,231 Speaker 3: that's my ring and I wanted to just die like 509 00:30:22,072 --> 00:30:26,472 Speaker 3: it was awful. No amount of time in jail will 510 00:30:26,512 --> 00:30:30,952 Speaker 3: make that better, you know. So it's and even though 511 00:30:30,952 --> 00:30:33,431 Speaker 3: he has to pay my mom restitution when he eventually 512 00:30:33,472 --> 00:30:37,872 Speaker 3: gets out, which good luck. I don't know how help. Yeah, 513 00:30:37,992 --> 00:30:39,712 Speaker 3: it doesn't matter, Like I don't even think she would 514 00:30:39,752 --> 00:30:41,751 Speaker 3: keep the money. I think she'd give it to charity, 515 00:30:41,911 --> 00:30:46,752 Speaker 3: because it's not it doesn't I don't know. It's something 516 00:30:46,792 --> 00:30:49,512 Speaker 3: you could. You know, my therapist and I talk about 517 00:30:49,512 --> 00:30:53,791 Speaker 3: this a lot. It's that radical acceptance. You don't have 518 00:30:53,832 --> 00:30:56,912 Speaker 3: to like it, but you have to accept that it happened. 519 00:30:57,872 --> 00:31:00,432 Speaker 1: After the break Here the talks about logging into Jason's 520 00:31:00,472 --> 00:31:04,632 Speaker 1: email and seeing endless conversations with other women on dating apps. 521 00:31:07,431 --> 00:31:10,632 Speaker 1: Can you take us into your mind the day that 522 00:31:10,752 --> 00:31:13,552 Speaker 1: you figure out his password to his Gmail account and 523 00:31:13,592 --> 00:31:17,751 Speaker 1: you start to see exactly what he's been up to, 524 00:31:18,112 --> 00:31:20,712 Speaker 1: Like what is happening in your brain? When you first 525 00:31:20,752 --> 00:31:23,512 Speaker 1: start to see all the conversations with all these women, 526 00:31:24,472 --> 00:31:27,551 Speaker 1: a lot of it sounds very familiar, and you can 527 00:31:27,592 --> 00:31:33,232 Speaker 1: see the sheer volume of conversations he's having on incredible 528 00:31:33,232 --> 00:31:37,511 Speaker 1: amounts of dating apps and sites, and like take us 529 00:31:37,552 --> 00:31:40,551 Speaker 1: into your mind then when you're just discovering what has 530 00:31:40,592 --> 00:31:42,271 Speaker 1: actually been happening in your relationship. 531 00:31:43,431 --> 00:31:45,032 Speaker 3: The first thing I did when I got in the 532 00:31:45,032 --> 00:31:48,432 Speaker 3: computer and I started seeing all this, I called him 533 00:31:49,392 --> 00:31:51,592 Speaker 3: my first instinct. I picked up the phone and I 534 00:31:51,632 --> 00:31:55,272 Speaker 3: called him because I was what it made no sense 535 00:31:55,312 --> 00:32:03,792 Speaker 3: to me, and although you know, things had been a 536 00:32:03,832 --> 00:32:07,632 Speaker 3: little rocky, you know, was still very much committed to 537 00:32:07,671 --> 00:32:09,752 Speaker 3: my relationship with him and my life with him. And 538 00:32:09,792 --> 00:32:13,512 Speaker 3: I was like, oh my god. And he didn't answer. 539 00:32:13,552 --> 00:32:16,072 Speaker 3: So then I was left in my own devices for hours, 540 00:32:16,232 --> 00:32:20,272 Speaker 3: and I took I realized I took pretty coppy screenshots. 541 00:32:20,272 --> 00:32:24,192 Speaker 3: I've since mastered it. But it was almost like that 542 00:32:24,472 --> 00:32:29,392 Speaker 3: feeling when your your stomach comes up in your throat, 543 00:32:29,592 --> 00:32:33,671 Speaker 3: because it's like the room kind of started spinning, and 544 00:32:34,592 --> 00:32:38,711 Speaker 3: I think maybe it was shock. That's what like a 545 00:32:38,792 --> 00:32:46,511 Speaker 3: low grade shock must feel like. Because I it, I 546 00:32:46,552 --> 00:32:48,592 Speaker 3: was like flabert like I am right now, trying to 547 00:32:48,592 --> 00:32:54,672 Speaker 3: describe it. I couldn't believe what I was seeing at all, 548 00:32:55,712 --> 00:32:59,951 Speaker 3: Like it blew my mind. It's almost like I feel 549 00:32:59,952 --> 00:33:04,232 Speaker 3: like I got split in half because there was part 550 00:33:04,272 --> 00:33:08,032 Speaker 3: of me that's like, this is insane, and oh my god, 551 00:33:08,072 --> 00:33:11,632 Speaker 3: I'm in love with this person. Like how it was 552 00:33:11,792 --> 00:33:14,951 Speaker 3: just black and white, there was no gray in that moment, 553 00:33:15,112 --> 00:33:23,832 Speaker 3: and it was so awful. It was I didn't want 554 00:33:23,911 --> 00:33:25,792 Speaker 3: to believe it, and I think I say on the 555 00:33:25,832 --> 00:33:27,712 Speaker 3: documentary too, I just I didn't know what to do. 556 00:33:28,712 --> 00:33:33,231 Speaker 3: I couldn't believe when I got into the one of 557 00:33:33,232 --> 00:33:37,072 Speaker 3: the dating apps, like his actual profile, It's not like 558 00:33:37,152 --> 00:33:39,511 Speaker 3: he was talking to two or three women. It was 559 00:33:39,952 --> 00:33:48,632 Speaker 3: hundreds of every age, every ethnicity, like and always like 560 00:33:48,872 --> 00:33:52,112 Speaker 3: oh my god, you're so beautiful, hey beautiful, And I'm like, 561 00:33:52,152 --> 00:33:54,152 Speaker 3: oh my god. That I would walk through our house 562 00:33:54,152 --> 00:33:56,592 Speaker 3: in Aura and he'd be like, hey beautiful, Hey beautiful, 563 00:33:56,752 --> 00:34:01,231 Speaker 3: Hey beautiful. In that moment too, it's like everything that 564 00:34:01,272 --> 00:34:03,511 Speaker 3: I thought to be like the kiss, like everything that 565 00:34:03,592 --> 00:34:07,072 Speaker 3: I thought to be special and true about my relationship 566 00:34:07,192 --> 00:34:11,312 Speaker 3: was just a line and a lie. You know. I 567 00:34:11,352 --> 00:34:13,232 Speaker 3: don't know would it be easier if I had just 568 00:34:13,352 --> 00:34:15,792 Speaker 3: gotten in the computer and saw he was cheating with 569 00:34:15,832 --> 00:34:19,111 Speaker 3: one person that would really hurt and that would suck, 570 00:34:19,232 --> 00:34:22,911 Speaker 3: but it would be like, oh okay, but it's hundreds 571 00:34:22,951 --> 00:34:27,272 Speaker 3: of people that he's talking to. It's very he's a predator. 572 00:34:28,272 --> 00:34:31,471 Speaker 3: And then to you know, go down my rabbit hole 573 00:34:31,471 --> 00:34:38,152 Speaker 3: and realize Jace Paratti aka Parati is actually Jason Porter. 574 00:34:38,392 --> 00:34:43,951 Speaker 3: The original online Romeo was shocking, shocking. 575 00:34:45,312 --> 00:34:46,631 Speaker 2: I think what's so. 576 00:34:48,392 --> 00:34:52,712 Speaker 1: Incredible about this documentary, rom Con is that there's actual 577 00:34:52,752 --> 00:34:56,272 Speaker 1: footage of you from this period when you are discovering, 578 00:34:57,272 --> 00:35:01,192 Speaker 1: and you can see the sheer amount of emotions that 579 00:35:01,232 --> 00:35:04,951 Speaker 1: you are experiencing in that moment. I mean, you are terrified, 580 00:35:05,232 --> 00:35:08,752 Speaker 1: you are angry, upset, like all the gamut of emotions, 581 00:35:10,752 --> 00:35:13,632 Speaker 1: and you say police do get involved, and it seems 582 00:35:13,712 --> 00:35:17,272 Speaker 1: like they're pretty dismissive of the things that you're telling them. Initially, 583 00:35:17,511 --> 00:35:19,712 Speaker 1: and as you said, you had to leave your house 584 00:35:19,792 --> 00:35:22,992 Speaker 1: even though you know he was the one who had 585 00:35:23,632 --> 00:35:27,272 Speaker 1: you know was a convicted criminal, which you just figured out. 586 00:35:27,112 --> 00:35:29,112 Speaker 2: And that he was still committing crimes. 587 00:35:29,951 --> 00:35:33,671 Speaker 1: And then it seems like, I don't know, this rod 588 00:35:33,712 --> 00:35:38,511 Speaker 1: of steel grows in your spine and you sit down 589 00:35:38,511 --> 00:35:40,712 Speaker 1: and they're like no, I'm not going to let this 590 00:35:40,752 --> 00:35:43,352 Speaker 1: man get away with what he's done, not just to me, 591 00:35:43,471 --> 00:35:47,192 Speaker 1: but to all these other women. What do you think 592 00:35:48,152 --> 00:35:51,911 Speaker 1: was happening to you in that moment, Because women especially 593 00:35:51,911 --> 00:35:54,832 Speaker 1: who were caught out by romance scammers notorious. You feel 594 00:35:54,872 --> 00:35:57,951 Speaker 1: really shameful about it and very embarrassed, and that is 595 00:35:57,951 --> 00:36:02,911 Speaker 1: completely understandable. It is you've not just taken advantage of financially, 596 00:36:02,951 --> 00:36:05,631 Speaker 1: You're taking an advantage of someone emotionally, which I think 597 00:36:05,712 --> 00:36:07,991 Speaker 1: is sometimes harder to recover from. 598 00:36:07,752 --> 00:36:08,832 Speaker 2: Than a financial knock. 599 00:36:09,792 --> 00:36:11,471 Speaker 1: What do you think it was about you in that 600 00:36:11,592 --> 00:36:15,031 Speaker 1: moment that you were like, he'll no, this guy's going 601 00:36:15,072 --> 00:36:15,392 Speaker 1: to pay. 602 00:36:16,392 --> 00:36:19,392 Speaker 3: I think I very much became like a dog with 603 00:36:19,431 --> 00:36:21,392 Speaker 3: a bone, like I wasn't going to let this go. 604 00:36:21,991 --> 00:36:26,872 Speaker 3: I wanted answers, I wanted Look, I would still love 605 00:36:26,911 --> 00:36:28,591 Speaker 3: to be able to talk to the brother and like 606 00:36:29,192 --> 00:36:33,031 Speaker 3: find out what went wrong in your childhoods that he 607 00:36:33,272 --> 00:36:38,792 Speaker 3: turned out this way. But I think it's when the 608 00:36:39,072 --> 00:36:43,751 Speaker 3: police were just so dismissive with me that it gave 609 00:36:43,792 --> 00:36:52,232 Speaker 3: me even more purpose to keep going. Like I I 610 00:36:52,272 --> 00:36:57,352 Speaker 3: think in a way, after the article came out, I 611 00:36:57,392 --> 00:37:02,272 Speaker 3: just was tunnel visioned to keep going and keep learning. 612 00:37:02,352 --> 00:37:05,392 Speaker 3: And in a way he made it easy because he 613 00:37:05,592 --> 00:37:09,911 Speaker 3: just kept the criminal justice thing rolling along and rolling along, 614 00:37:09,991 --> 00:37:14,872 Speaker 3: which gave me even more ammo and anger to just 615 00:37:14,951 --> 00:37:18,192 Speaker 3: get to the bottom of it. Like I just wanted 616 00:37:18,471 --> 00:37:20,872 Speaker 3: just to serve for what he did to us, but 617 00:37:20,951 --> 00:37:26,991 Speaker 3: I equally wanted to try and expose him so he 618 00:37:27,031 --> 00:37:33,112 Speaker 3: couldn't do this to anyone else. And it's incredible how 619 00:37:33,352 --> 00:37:37,232 Speaker 3: many people have reached out to me to say, like, 620 00:37:37,431 --> 00:37:41,151 Speaker 3: I know, I know, it's he never stopped. Now he's 621 00:37:41,152 --> 00:37:44,591 Speaker 3: finally stopped because he's finally in jailed. But if I 622 00:37:44,632 --> 00:37:48,911 Speaker 3: were twenty years younger and I had gone through this, 623 00:37:48,991 --> 00:37:51,991 Speaker 3: I probably would have just remained in the shame and 624 00:37:52,031 --> 00:37:56,631 Speaker 3: licked my wounds and been like, oh, that sucked. But 625 00:37:56,792 --> 00:38:00,031 Speaker 3: in the middle of all this, I turned fifty, and 626 00:38:00,911 --> 00:38:03,872 Speaker 3: I couldn't have peace with myself if I just let 627 00:38:03,872 --> 00:38:06,432 Speaker 3: it go. I just had to. I had to get 628 00:38:06,471 --> 00:38:09,431 Speaker 3: the answers, and to be honest, I still don't have 629 00:38:09,471 --> 00:38:12,872 Speaker 3: all the answers. There's still quite a few pieces of 630 00:38:12,911 --> 00:38:17,352 Speaker 3: the puzzle missing. I hope with the documentary that perhaps 631 00:38:17,392 --> 00:38:21,151 Speaker 3: it might bring more people forward who were affected by him. 632 00:38:24,152 --> 00:38:31,672 Speaker 3: But somewhere along this journey too. By reclaiming my power 633 00:38:31,792 --> 00:38:36,832 Speaker 3: and taking charge of the story line and working on 634 00:38:36,872 --> 00:38:41,832 Speaker 3: the documentary and having so many incredible people want to 635 00:38:41,872 --> 00:38:47,231 Speaker 3: bring my story to light, it's given me even more 636 00:38:47,272 --> 00:38:49,151 Speaker 3: confidence that I know I'm doing the right thing. 637 00:38:50,752 --> 00:38:52,031 Speaker 2: Hey, you touched on something there. 638 00:38:52,072 --> 00:38:57,592 Speaker 1: It's incredible because while the court system was very slowly 639 00:38:57,832 --> 00:39:00,671 Speaker 1: grinding away with this case, as you mentioned it took 640 00:39:00,872 --> 00:39:03,392 Speaker 1: three years or more, like he was. 641 00:39:03,352 --> 00:39:04,952 Speaker 2: Still on the dating apps. 642 00:39:06,352 --> 00:39:08,471 Speaker 1: This was happening like people you know and who were 643 00:39:08,592 --> 00:39:10,511 Speaker 1: keeping an eye on things and researching, and yourself for 644 00:39:10,632 --> 00:39:15,472 Speaker 1: finding him still putting profiles up on these dating apps 645 00:39:16,192 --> 00:39:21,552 Speaker 1: whilst he was going through criminal charges Like that seems 646 00:39:21,632 --> 00:39:24,151 Speaker 1: wild to me, like if you are facing a jail 647 00:39:24,272 --> 00:39:26,992 Speaker 1: term and yet you're still doing the crime. 648 00:39:28,712 --> 00:39:33,872 Speaker 3: But isn't that what makes him like a psychopath? Mm? 649 00:39:34,592 --> 00:39:40,471 Speaker 3: Because he doesn't have This guy has no remorse, he 650 00:39:40,551 --> 00:39:45,071 Speaker 3: has no empathy, he has no conscience. I don't think he. 651 00:39:47,672 --> 00:39:51,352 Speaker 3: I can't speak for him, but it from what I've observed, 652 00:39:53,112 --> 00:39:57,592 Speaker 3: it's like, on one hand, he's going through criminal court 653 00:39:59,392 --> 00:40:01,071 Speaker 3: and then he's probably going on a date that very 654 00:40:01,152 --> 00:40:04,191 Speaker 3: night with somebody. It's like to him there too, it's 655 00:40:04,632 --> 00:40:07,832 Speaker 3: you know, on our first date, he talked to me 656 00:40:09,551 --> 00:40:13,911 Speaker 3: about how he puts everything in boxes. And I know 657 00:40:14,152 --> 00:40:17,911 Speaker 3: men more than women, they can compartmentalize their emotions a 658 00:40:17,911 --> 00:40:22,631 Speaker 3: bit better. So I chalked it up to some of 659 00:40:22,672 --> 00:40:24,352 Speaker 3: his behavior through our relationship. I was just like, oh, 660 00:40:24,431 --> 00:40:28,911 Speaker 3: he's compartmentalizing. But when the truth came to light, I 661 00:40:28,951 --> 00:40:31,711 Speaker 3: was like, oh my god, it's like he has, you know, 662 00:40:32,072 --> 00:40:34,672 Speaker 3: this memory in this box and this one in this box. 663 00:40:34,712 --> 00:40:38,592 Speaker 3: So this current situation is this box and this one's 664 00:40:38,632 --> 00:40:40,472 Speaker 3: this box, and he just pulls it out and opens 665 00:40:40,471 --> 00:40:43,911 Speaker 3: it when he needs it. I don't think you said 666 00:40:43,951 --> 00:40:49,952 Speaker 3: something else earlier. And it was interesting, Jace really drank. 667 00:40:50,712 --> 00:40:53,591 Speaker 3: If we went out for dinner, he might have one drink, 668 00:40:53,672 --> 00:40:56,711 Speaker 3: whereas I love wine, like I could you know, I'm 669 00:40:56,712 --> 00:40:59,792 Speaker 3: not going to drink a whole bottle. And now I 670 00:41:01,431 --> 00:41:04,951 Speaker 3: realized when the truth came to light, I think he 671 00:41:04,991 --> 00:41:07,312 Speaker 3: would do that on purpose too, because you know, there's 672 00:41:07,352 --> 00:41:11,392 Speaker 3: that saying loose lips sinks ships. 673 00:41:11,592 --> 00:41:14,071 Speaker 2: So we had to keep these ducks in a row exactly. 674 00:41:14,272 --> 00:41:18,792 Speaker 3: And so you know, all of the other women in 675 00:41:18,832 --> 00:41:23,111 Speaker 3: the documentary, all of our stories are the same, but 676 00:41:23,152 --> 00:41:24,911 Speaker 3: with like a little bit of you know, he might 677 00:41:24,951 --> 00:41:28,071 Speaker 3: have told this woman and you know I was wearing 678 00:41:28,112 --> 00:41:30,232 Speaker 3: a blue sweater and with me it was a green sweater. 679 00:41:30,272 --> 00:41:34,112 Speaker 3: Like there's little differences, but overall it's the same sort 680 00:41:34,152 --> 00:41:36,991 Speaker 3: of story, and I think he has to It must 681 00:41:36,991 --> 00:41:41,071 Speaker 3: be exhausting being him, like how many people has Like 682 00:41:41,152 --> 00:41:43,352 Speaker 3: you'd have to think who have I told this to? 683 00:41:43,431 --> 00:41:45,632 Speaker 3: Who have I told that too? So he has to 684 00:41:45,712 --> 00:41:50,031 Speaker 3: keep it pretty tight, like it's it's crazy, it's he's 685 00:41:50,072 --> 00:41:52,231 Speaker 3: pretty well. 686 00:41:52,312 --> 00:41:54,911 Speaker 1: I think that is really evident when you're going through 687 00:41:54,951 --> 00:41:57,792 Speaker 1: the court proceedings and there's that moment where you see 688 00:41:57,792 --> 00:41:59,511 Speaker 1: the people coming out but too quickly, and you're like, 689 00:41:59,551 --> 00:42:02,991 Speaker 1: hang on, what's happened? And then you find out that 690 00:42:04,192 --> 00:42:08,872 Speaker 1: there's some allegations of tampering because flyers were left on 691 00:42:08,991 --> 00:42:13,951 Speaker 1: cars allegedly by yourself telling people, warning people about him. 692 00:42:15,232 --> 00:42:18,392 Speaker 1: But then it turns out like that's another lie that 693 00:42:18,471 --> 00:42:20,072 Speaker 1: he's tailing in court. 694 00:42:20,832 --> 00:42:24,392 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, he showed up in court and lied to 695 00:42:24,712 --> 00:42:28,832 Speaker 3: a you know, a superior court judge, a crown attorney, 696 00:42:29,072 --> 00:42:34,991 Speaker 3: his own attorney. It's crazy. Yeah, it's I think I 697 00:42:34,991 --> 00:42:38,192 Speaker 3: say in the documentary, you know, during Lockdown, we watched 698 00:42:38,232 --> 00:42:40,951 Speaker 3: I think almost every Law and Order because yeah, like 699 00:42:40,991 --> 00:42:43,232 Speaker 3: I used to joke, I'm like I broke Netflix, like 700 00:42:43,511 --> 00:42:48,392 Speaker 3: I broke the Internet TV because we watched so many shows. 701 00:42:49,672 --> 00:42:54,832 Speaker 3: But somehow he got the idea, you know, between the 702 00:42:54,872 --> 00:42:57,431 Speaker 3: flyers didn't come that date, Like everybody left court that day, 703 00:42:57,431 --> 00:42:59,352 Speaker 3: and then it was two days later when court resumed 704 00:42:59,352 --> 00:43:03,951 Speaker 3: that the flyers mysteriously like were found, and it gave 705 00:43:04,112 --> 00:43:06,591 Speaker 3: so that little interlude gave him time to like and 706 00:43:06,592 --> 00:43:08,352 Speaker 3: scheme and be like, how can I get out of this? 707 00:43:09,112 --> 00:43:13,471 Speaker 3: You know, it was his hail Mary, because yeah, and 708 00:43:13,511 --> 00:43:16,152 Speaker 3: it's crazy if you think about it, somebody would actually 709 00:43:16,152 --> 00:43:18,592 Speaker 3: go that far to do it, But I mean people 710 00:43:18,592 --> 00:43:20,031 Speaker 3: do all kinds of crazy things. 711 00:43:20,632 --> 00:43:21,911 Speaker 2: How do you feel about his sentence? 712 00:43:21,951 --> 00:43:24,952 Speaker 1: Because he will send its to two years in prison, 713 00:43:24,991 --> 00:43:27,832 Speaker 1: three years' probation, and then, as you mentioned, he does 714 00:43:27,872 --> 00:43:29,631 Speaker 1: have some cave. It's like he does have to pay 715 00:43:29,672 --> 00:43:32,591 Speaker 1: your mum restitution for the stolen jewelry, and he also 716 00:43:32,632 --> 00:43:35,671 Speaker 1: has to report to his probation officer every time he's 717 00:43:35,672 --> 00:43:37,752 Speaker 1: in a new romantic relationship, which is going to be 718 00:43:37,792 --> 00:43:40,872 Speaker 1: interesting to see how that's tracked after he gets out 719 00:43:40,911 --> 00:43:42,991 Speaker 1: of prison. But like, how do you feel about that 720 00:43:43,072 --> 00:43:46,192 Speaker 1: sentence because I guess from an outsider's perspective, it doesn't 721 00:43:46,232 --> 00:43:49,392 Speaker 1: seem like a lot considering the amount of damage he 722 00:43:49,471 --> 00:43:51,352 Speaker 1: did to so many people. 723 00:43:52,272 --> 00:43:57,112 Speaker 3: I agree, and in fact, the judge gave more time 724 00:43:57,312 --> 00:44:00,512 Speaker 3: than the Crown was asking for because I guess in Canada, 725 00:44:00,672 --> 00:44:04,031 Speaker 3: I don't know what it's like in Australia, though we 726 00:44:04,112 --> 00:44:08,472 Speaker 3: all come from British law, like our courts follow that system. 727 00:44:08,752 --> 00:44:13,471 Speaker 3: But apparently in Canada it's miraculous that he even got 728 00:44:13,471 --> 00:44:16,151 Speaker 3: the time he did. When you look at just if 729 00:44:16,192 --> 00:44:19,951 Speaker 3: you're looking at just what was stolen, people don't go 730 00:44:20,031 --> 00:44:23,392 Speaker 3: to jail for that long for stealing, you know things. 731 00:44:23,712 --> 00:44:26,712 Speaker 1: That's the thing too, because he's charged with theft, but 732 00:44:26,872 --> 00:44:29,152 Speaker 1: not really about all the other stuff. 733 00:44:29,392 --> 00:44:31,712 Speaker 3: Because we didn't have all the evidence. And when he 734 00:44:31,792 --> 00:44:35,352 Speaker 3: erased the computer that night after the police left a 735 00:44:35,392 --> 00:44:38,792 Speaker 3: lot of stuff that I had screenshotted but had not 736 00:44:38,991 --> 00:44:44,111 Speaker 3: retrieved off the computer got erased. Yes, so I think 737 00:44:44,152 --> 00:44:46,911 Speaker 3: it was. In the end, it was like two counts 738 00:44:46,951 --> 00:44:50,392 Speaker 3: of theft over five thousand and one count of crime 739 00:44:51,872 --> 00:44:54,432 Speaker 3: over five thousand, which is great because again in Canada 740 00:44:54,551 --> 00:44:58,752 Speaker 3: there's like theft and crime under five thousand is like 741 00:44:59,072 --> 00:45:01,712 Speaker 3: one set of charges and then anything above five thousand 742 00:45:01,911 --> 00:45:05,232 Speaker 3: becomes another. But I mean, the truth is, like I said, 743 00:45:05,272 --> 00:45:10,632 Speaker 3: he is, he's still has three other outstanding criminal cases 744 00:45:10,672 --> 00:45:15,071 Speaker 3: in three different areas, one being Leslie's watch, the other 745 00:45:15,152 --> 00:45:17,712 Speaker 3: being these new charges. And there's something else that happened 746 00:45:17,712 --> 00:45:19,951 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty two that I still don't even know 747 00:45:19,991 --> 00:45:21,752 Speaker 3: what that's about. It has nothing to do with me. 748 00:45:22,551 --> 00:45:26,352 Speaker 3: So he still has more charges, which I hope it 749 00:45:26,431 --> 00:45:28,712 Speaker 3: adds more time on because also the way it works 750 00:45:28,712 --> 00:45:31,591 Speaker 3: in Canada is it's crazy that I know this now, 751 00:45:31,632 --> 00:45:34,352 Speaker 3: but he got two years less one day you go 752 00:45:34,431 --> 00:45:37,111 Speaker 3: to provincial jail. Anything over two years you go to 753 00:45:37,152 --> 00:45:40,951 Speaker 3: federal prison. Either way, neither are good, Like I don't 754 00:45:40,991 --> 00:45:44,232 Speaker 3: think you want to be in either of those institutions. 755 00:45:44,272 --> 00:45:47,591 Speaker 3: But I would love to see more time thrown at 756 00:45:47,672 --> 00:45:50,991 Speaker 3: him for these other crimes that he's done. But I 757 00:45:51,031 --> 00:45:57,752 Speaker 3: also think, you know, I heard somewhere when these guys 758 00:45:57,832 --> 00:46:02,232 Speaker 3: like him go to prison jail, it's like college for criminals, 759 00:46:02,312 --> 00:46:04,912 Speaker 3: and he's going to meet other scammers and other people 760 00:46:05,112 --> 00:46:07,031 Speaker 3: while he's locked up, and he'll maybe come out with 761 00:46:07,112 --> 00:46:10,912 Speaker 3: some new ideas, some new EMMO. Who knows. I don't 762 00:46:10,951 --> 00:46:14,111 Speaker 3: know how effective the whole system is, Like, I don't 763 00:46:14,152 --> 00:46:19,631 Speaker 3: know if people like him ever get fully rehabilitated. Yes, 764 00:46:20,312 --> 00:46:22,312 Speaker 3: he deserves to be locked up, and I'm very glad 765 00:46:22,392 --> 00:46:25,312 Speaker 3: he is, and I do feel like some justice was served, 766 00:46:26,031 --> 00:46:28,511 Speaker 3: but it was I was hoping he would get like 767 00:46:28,511 --> 00:46:31,191 Speaker 3: at least ten years and come out on an old man, 768 00:46:31,991 --> 00:46:33,952 Speaker 3: but that didn't happen. 769 00:46:35,272 --> 00:46:40,031 Speaker 1: How do you now start to rebuild and recover and 770 00:46:40,112 --> 00:46:43,712 Speaker 1: step away from this? Because I presuming you can't fully 771 00:46:43,752 --> 00:46:46,071 Speaker 1: ever step away from it with the sheer number of 772 00:46:46,112 --> 00:46:49,832 Speaker 1: people who are attached to Jason Porter and you really 773 00:46:49,872 --> 00:46:52,911 Speaker 1: being the face of his crimes now, I guess you're 774 00:46:53,232 --> 00:46:55,511 Speaker 1: contacted by I don't know how many people on the 775 00:46:55,551 --> 00:46:59,591 Speaker 1: regular who have been impacted by him, But like, can 776 00:46:59,632 --> 00:47:00,872 Speaker 1: you step away from it now? 777 00:47:00,911 --> 00:47:01,951 Speaker 2: Can you recover? 778 00:47:02,072 --> 00:47:05,232 Speaker 1: And do you ever have another romantic relationship for as 779 00:47:05,272 --> 00:47:06,911 Speaker 1: long as you live? Like, how do you move on 780 00:47:06,991 --> 00:47:07,431 Speaker 1: from these? 781 00:47:08,832 --> 00:47:12,631 Speaker 3: Well? I am dating and I'm very happy nice been 782 00:47:12,672 --> 00:47:18,312 Speaker 3: seeing a lovely, lovely man, but it's been very slow 783 00:47:18,872 --> 00:47:25,672 Speaker 3: because it is. It has been hard. It's really interesting. 784 00:47:26,951 --> 00:47:30,632 Speaker 3: I talked to Leslie a lot about him and dating 785 00:47:30,911 --> 00:47:35,312 Speaker 3: because she's gone through it too, and it takes time 786 00:47:35,792 --> 00:47:38,991 Speaker 3: to it. Some days in the relationship it's like one 787 00:47:39,031 --> 00:47:41,832 Speaker 3: step forward, two steps back, one step forward too, and 788 00:47:41,872 --> 00:47:45,312 Speaker 3: it's it's not him, it's me, and I fully own it. 789 00:47:45,392 --> 00:47:47,992 Speaker 3: And he gets in and thank God, he's so loving 790 00:47:48,072 --> 00:47:51,552 Speaker 3: and patient and sees what I've gone through and he 791 00:47:51,832 --> 00:47:54,471 Speaker 3: just wants to, you know, be supportive and make my 792 00:47:54,511 --> 00:47:58,792 Speaker 3: life better. But it's it takes time, you know. I'm 793 00:47:58,832 --> 00:48:02,152 Speaker 3: glad it's been over three years, right, so I've given 794 00:48:02,192 --> 00:48:09,031 Speaker 3: myself a lot of time to process. But to answer 795 00:48:09,072 --> 00:48:12,471 Speaker 3: the first part of the question, I still find myself 796 00:48:12,592 --> 00:48:15,352 Speaker 3: going on the court dockets seeing when he'ssy up next 797 00:48:15,352 --> 00:48:17,911 Speaker 3: in court, like what's going on. I don't know if 798 00:48:18,072 --> 00:48:20,232 Speaker 3: I'd love to be able to say I've put it 799 00:48:20,272 --> 00:48:22,832 Speaker 3: all behind me, but as long as there's still the 800 00:48:22,872 --> 00:48:28,431 Speaker 3: outstanding matters, I'm still kind of connected to it, especially 801 00:48:28,471 --> 00:48:33,312 Speaker 3: with the obstruction of justice charges with the Flyer, because 802 00:48:33,312 --> 00:48:35,192 Speaker 3: I will be a witness at that trial if it 803 00:48:35,232 --> 00:48:43,272 Speaker 3: goes to a trial. But I think one anyone who's 804 00:48:43,312 --> 00:48:46,792 Speaker 3: ever been in my shoes or sadly might end up 805 00:48:46,832 --> 00:48:49,071 Speaker 3: in my shoes. You just have to give yourself a 806 00:48:49,232 --> 00:48:54,511 Speaker 3: lot of compassion. I'm very lucky I have incredible, Like 807 00:48:54,752 --> 00:48:59,832 Speaker 3: I have the most amazing family and such a strong 808 00:48:59,911 --> 00:49:03,112 Speaker 3: network of friends, and I've done a lot of therapy. 809 00:49:03,551 --> 00:49:07,272 Speaker 3: You know, I walk my dog all the time because 810 00:49:07,312 --> 00:49:08,752 Speaker 3: when I just have to clear my head, I'll go 811 00:49:08,872 --> 00:49:12,272 Speaker 3: for a walk. But I really have this has definitely 812 00:49:13,072 --> 00:49:17,512 Speaker 3: reprioritized things for me. You know, what would once seems 813 00:49:17,551 --> 00:49:23,632 Speaker 3: so important isn't. And for me self care and health 814 00:49:23,712 --> 00:49:27,272 Speaker 3: are like first and foremost. But yeah, I don't know. 815 00:49:27,592 --> 00:49:31,152 Speaker 3: I really, like I said earlier too, I do hope 816 00:49:32,392 --> 00:49:35,111 Speaker 3: it would be really cool if more victims can come 817 00:49:35,152 --> 00:49:39,072 Speaker 3: forward and if imagine if more charges could get laid 818 00:49:39,112 --> 00:49:42,511 Speaker 3: against him and he did spend a long long time 819 00:49:42,551 --> 00:49:46,591 Speaker 3: in jail, like that would be amazing. So we'll see. 820 00:49:47,112 --> 00:49:49,392 Speaker 3: Its life is just a work in progress, right like 821 00:49:49,431 --> 00:49:50,272 Speaker 3: one day at a time. 822 00:49:52,592 --> 00:49:55,152 Speaker 1: Thank you to Heather for helping us tell her story. 823 00:49:55,312 --> 00:49:58,511 Speaker 1: True Crime Conversations is a podcast hosted by me Clare 824 00:49:58,551 --> 00:50:01,911 Speaker 1: Murphy and produced by Charlie Blackman, with audio designed by 825 00:50:01,991 --> 00:50:04,951 Speaker 1: Jacob Brown. Thanks so much for listening. I'll be back 826 00:50:05,031 --> 00:50:07,272 Speaker 1: next week with another Through Crime Conversation.