1 00:00:05,646 --> 00:00:10,645 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mother of Me podcast. 2 00:00:11,006 --> 00:00:14,286 Speaker 2: Hi, it's Cassanne Lukige here, host of Diary of a Birth, 3 00:00:14,566 --> 00:00:17,925 Speaker 2: and this summer we've curated your delivery room playlist to 4 00:00:17,966 --> 00:00:21,526 Speaker 2: bring you even more unmissable birth stories. This summer, we're 5 00:00:21,566 --> 00:00:24,286 Speaker 2: bringing you our favorite episodes of Diary of a Birth 6 00:00:24,526 --> 00:00:27,926 Speaker 2: right here in your feet. That's your holiday listening sorded 7 00:00:28,366 --> 00:00:30,806 Speaker 2: And if you're looking for more to listen to, Every 8 00:00:30,846 --> 00:00:34,566 Speaker 2: Muma mea podcast is curating your summer listening right across 9 00:00:34,606 --> 00:00:38,565 Speaker 2: our network. From pop culture to beauty to powerful interviews, 10 00:00:38,726 --> 00:00:39,885 Speaker 2: there's something for everyone. 11 00:00:40,126 --> 00:00:41,726 Speaker 1: Check out the link in the show notes. 12 00:00:45,965 --> 00:00:46,165 Speaker 3: Hi. 13 00:00:46,326 --> 00:00:49,965 Speaker 1: I am Cassene Lukic and this is Diary of a Birth. 14 00:00:50,965 --> 00:00:53,525 Speaker 1: Part of the reason I love doing this podcast is 15 00:00:53,645 --> 00:00:56,685 Speaker 1: creating awareness for some of the lesser known complications of 16 00:00:56,726 --> 00:01:00,926 Speaker 1: pregnancy and birth, not to scare our listeners, but to 17 00:01:01,006 --> 00:01:05,326 Speaker 1: help inform and educate. After finding out she had a 18 00:01:05,486 --> 00:01:08,366 Speaker 1: low egg count, Today's mum went down the IVF route, 19 00:01:08,886 --> 00:01:11,966 Speaker 1: but it wasn't until after her baby was born that 20 00:01:12,126 --> 00:01:14,686 Speaker 1: things really became more complicated. 21 00:01:15,406 --> 00:01:18,806 Speaker 3: I ended up losing quite a lot of blood. My 22 00:01:18,886 --> 00:01:22,246 Speaker 3: placenta had come out, But she said, I think there's 23 00:01:22,286 --> 00:01:25,366 Speaker 3: some placentas still inside you, so I have to actually 24 00:01:25,446 --> 00:01:27,846 Speaker 3: manually go in and scoop it out. 25 00:01:28,326 --> 00:01:32,206 Speaker 1: After getting home and struggling to breastfeed, our mum knew 26 00:01:32,286 --> 00:01:36,526 Speaker 1: something was up and she fought to get answers. So 27 00:01:36,806 --> 00:01:38,086 Speaker 1: let's meet today's mum. 28 00:01:38,886 --> 00:01:42,726 Speaker 3: Hi, I'm Anna Bamford and this is the diary of 29 00:01:42,726 --> 00:01:46,126 Speaker 3: my birth with Camilla. 30 00:01:48,166 --> 00:01:51,366 Speaker 1: So Anna, we've kind of known each other for a 31 00:01:51,406 --> 00:01:54,326 Speaker 1: few years. We used to work together back of the day, 32 00:01:54,526 --> 00:01:57,766 Speaker 1: kind of cross paths multiple times, and I was so 33 00:01:57,846 --> 00:02:00,606 Speaker 1: happy when you reached out to tell your story because 34 00:02:01,446 --> 00:02:03,886 Speaker 1: while it is a really difficult story, I think it's 35 00:02:03,926 --> 00:02:08,246 Speaker 1: a really important one fast to share. So what I 36 00:02:08,286 --> 00:02:12,085 Speaker 1: wanted to start with is kind of the challenges around 37 00:02:12,085 --> 00:02:15,166 Speaker 1: falling pregnant for you for the first time. 38 00:02:15,965 --> 00:02:20,326 Speaker 3: Yeah, I first fell pregnant at the end of twenty 39 00:02:20,365 --> 00:02:26,326 Speaker 3: twenty two and it was a surprise and I couldn't 40 00:02:26,365 --> 00:02:30,406 Speaker 3: get in to see a doctor until I was nine 41 00:02:30,446 --> 00:02:36,286 Speaker 3: weeks pregnant, and that pregnancy ended up in a missed miscarriage. 42 00:02:36,965 --> 00:02:40,206 Speaker 3: So I ended up having a DNC. 43 00:02:41,046 --> 00:02:44,605 Speaker 1: So being based in the US in terms of finding 44 00:02:44,766 --> 00:02:50,406 Speaker 1: fertility support and an IVF specialist, how does it work? There. 45 00:02:50,805 --> 00:02:55,326 Speaker 3: LA is really one of the most you know, people 46 00:02:55,645 --> 00:02:58,766 Speaker 3: come to LA to do IVF. There are a lot 47 00:02:58,886 --> 00:03:02,206 Speaker 3: of clinics here. I was lucky in that I was 48 00:03:02,925 --> 00:03:06,645 Speaker 3: I'm very close friends with a girl who really struggled 49 00:03:06,645 --> 00:03:10,805 Speaker 3: to get pregnant, and she had a few different clinics 50 00:03:10,805 --> 00:03:14,405 Speaker 3: that she had sort of interviewed or spoken with, so 51 00:03:14,446 --> 00:03:17,726 Speaker 3: she shared those names with me, and I, yeah, just 52 00:03:17,766 --> 00:03:23,726 Speaker 3: started calling and asking what the process was. In that time, 53 00:03:24,006 --> 00:03:28,046 Speaker 3: I also had another miscarriage, so that sort of further 54 00:03:28,726 --> 00:03:31,566 Speaker 3: you know, cemented for Tyson, my husband and I that 55 00:03:31,645 --> 00:03:34,806 Speaker 3: we really needed to do this. 56 00:03:35,446 --> 00:03:39,606 Speaker 1: Yeah. So two chemical pregnancies within the space of. 57 00:03:39,566 --> 00:03:42,845 Speaker 3: What six months? Yeah, so two. 58 00:03:42,766 --> 00:03:47,086 Speaker 1: Chemical pregnancies in the space of six months. Low amh. 59 00:03:47,246 --> 00:03:50,366 Speaker 1: High stress job. That's a lot of pressure on you 60 00:03:50,846 --> 00:03:54,486 Speaker 1: and Tyson. So you find your doctor, you start going 61 00:03:54,486 --> 00:03:57,886 Speaker 1: through the IVF process. How did you go with your 62 00:03:57,926 --> 00:04:00,246 Speaker 1: sort of first round of retrievals. 63 00:04:00,526 --> 00:04:05,726 Speaker 3: Yeah, so that surprisingly went really well. And you know 64 00:04:05,806 --> 00:04:09,846 Speaker 3: the egg process of you have so many eggs and 65 00:04:09,886 --> 00:04:12,566 Speaker 3: then you have so many embryos and it gets smaller 66 00:04:12,646 --> 00:04:16,726 Speaker 3: and smaller, and we chose to also do the genetic 67 00:04:16,806 --> 00:04:21,446 Speaker 3: testing with that, so we ended up you know, with 68 00:04:21,686 --> 00:04:26,005 Speaker 3: a certain number of embryos and decided to transfer pretty 69 00:04:26,005 --> 00:04:31,246 Speaker 3: well straight away and were very lucky in that it 70 00:04:31,325 --> 00:04:32,126 Speaker 3: was successful. 71 00:04:32,646 --> 00:04:35,886 Speaker 1: How did you feel throughout your pregnancy overall? 72 00:04:36,086 --> 00:04:41,046 Speaker 3: I felt amazing and so lucky, you know. I think 73 00:04:41,086 --> 00:04:44,686 Speaker 3: we had had a year of really high stress, and 74 00:04:45,726 --> 00:04:49,005 Speaker 3: I think also just being surrounded by a lot of 75 00:04:49,086 --> 00:04:51,885 Speaker 3: friends that were, you know, doing the same thing or 76 00:04:51,926 --> 00:04:56,166 Speaker 3: getting pregnant and sharing such amazing news that was really tough. 77 00:04:56,846 --> 00:05:00,726 Speaker 3: And there's some self preservation that comes along with that, 78 00:05:00,885 --> 00:05:03,806 Speaker 3: because you want to obviously be happy for them, but 79 00:05:04,526 --> 00:05:09,406 Speaker 3: it's really tough. But the pregnancy itself, I was sick. 80 00:05:09,445 --> 00:05:12,006 Speaker 3: I had pretty bad morning sickness for like the first 81 00:05:12,366 --> 00:05:17,366 Speaker 3: fourteen fifteen weeks and it wasn't really until maybe about 82 00:05:17,406 --> 00:05:22,166 Speaker 3: twenty twenty three weeks where I thought, Okay, I can 83 00:05:22,206 --> 00:05:27,206 Speaker 3: relax here and really enjoy it. But yeah, the pregnancy 84 00:05:27,325 --> 00:05:29,846 Speaker 3: itself was pretty straightforward. 85 00:05:30,325 --> 00:05:33,366 Speaker 1: So at thirty eight weeks, you get induced because your 86 00:05:33,366 --> 00:05:38,046 Speaker 1: body sort of started to be getting ready. Is that correct. 87 00:05:38,246 --> 00:05:41,886 Speaker 3: I decided to get induced purely because she said she's 88 00:05:41,926 --> 00:05:45,885 Speaker 3: measuring big and this is what I think is the 89 00:05:45,926 --> 00:05:48,886 Speaker 3: best course for you, And so I was induced at 90 00:05:48,926 --> 00:05:52,806 Speaker 3: thirty nine and one. But the week before, at thirty 91 00:05:52,846 --> 00:05:55,166 Speaker 3: eight weeks, we were about to go out for dinner 92 00:05:55,406 --> 00:05:58,486 Speaker 3: and I went to the bathroom and I started bleeding, 93 00:05:59,286 --> 00:06:03,326 Speaker 3: and so we went to the hospital and they did 94 00:06:03,366 --> 00:06:07,006 Speaker 3: an ultrasound and they said, oh, you're a centimeter and 95 00:06:07,046 --> 00:06:10,405 Speaker 3: a half dilated. You know, the baby could come tonight 96 00:06:10,885 --> 00:06:14,325 Speaker 3: or in two three weeks, So go home or go 97 00:06:14,406 --> 00:06:17,886 Speaker 3: out to dinner, keep doing what you're doing, and call 98 00:06:17,966 --> 00:06:20,565 Speaker 3: us if there's any change. And then I think a 99 00:06:20,606 --> 00:06:26,126 Speaker 3: few days later, my mucus plug fell out and I thought, okay, 100 00:06:26,246 --> 00:06:29,845 Speaker 3: my body is like getting ready, and I spoke to 101 00:06:29,885 --> 00:06:32,525 Speaker 3: the doctor and she yeah. It wasn't until then that 102 00:06:32,606 --> 00:06:35,286 Speaker 3: we decided, okay, we're going to induce in like three 103 00:06:35,406 --> 00:06:39,086 Speaker 3: days from now. So it was a real last minute call. 104 00:06:39,366 --> 00:06:44,166 Speaker 3: But she had said, your body's already getting ready, so 105 00:06:44,286 --> 00:06:47,966 Speaker 3: you won't need the gel, which is the first step 106 00:06:48,206 --> 00:06:52,886 Speaker 3: of induction here, so we just went straight to the 107 00:06:52,926 --> 00:06:53,765 Speaker 3: foley balloon. 108 00:06:54,046 --> 00:06:56,486 Speaker 1: So they put the foley balloon in, which it basically 109 00:06:56,526 --> 00:06:59,686 Speaker 1: is to help open the cervix exactly. 110 00:07:00,046 --> 00:07:04,565 Speaker 3: Yeah, and that was pretty manageable. It wasn't until they 111 00:07:04,846 --> 00:07:09,166 Speaker 3: went to pull it out that the pain really really started. 112 00:07:09,526 --> 00:07:13,446 Speaker 3: But I sort of wanted to feel that pain a 113 00:07:13,446 --> 00:07:17,086 Speaker 3: little bit. So we went in at two am for 114 00:07:17,166 --> 00:07:21,726 Speaker 3: my induction and I ended up getting an EPI at 115 00:07:21,766 --> 00:07:24,526 Speaker 3: about six centimeters dilated. 116 00:07:24,846 --> 00:07:27,406 Speaker 1: Okay, so they gave you the balloon. You're doing your 117 00:07:27,406 --> 00:07:30,846 Speaker 1: contractions and you're just in the hospital contracting. 118 00:07:31,406 --> 00:07:35,726 Speaker 3: Yeah, naturally, Well, they gave me the balloon and potosin 119 00:07:36,126 --> 00:07:39,726 Speaker 3: okay to bring on the contractions. And they would come 120 00:07:39,766 --> 00:07:44,926 Speaker 3: in every hour and turn up the potosin and she go, 121 00:07:45,246 --> 00:07:47,846 Speaker 3: how are you going now? And I'm okay, I'm all right. 122 00:07:48,126 --> 00:07:50,926 Speaker 3: She go, okay, all right, all right, and then I 123 00:07:50,966 --> 00:07:56,166 Speaker 3: think it was about two PM when I got the epidural, 124 00:07:56,766 --> 00:07:59,206 Speaker 3: but I remember her saying do you still want to 125 00:07:59,326 --> 00:08:01,966 Speaker 3: go to the bathroom? And I said, well, yeah, if 126 00:08:02,006 --> 00:08:03,446 Speaker 3: I could. She said, all right, we're going to give 127 00:08:03,486 --> 00:08:07,246 Speaker 3: you a walking EPI. It's sort of like a certain 128 00:08:07,326 --> 00:08:10,086 Speaker 3: dosage so you can still be able to go to 129 00:08:10,086 --> 00:08:14,406 Speaker 3: the bathroom. So I did that, and I remember when 130 00:08:14,446 --> 00:08:20,366 Speaker 3: the anetheist came in and he was about to put 131 00:08:20,366 --> 00:08:22,965 Speaker 3: the needle in my back and he said, oh, I 132 00:08:23,006 --> 00:08:25,286 Speaker 3: don't know about this dosage. I don't know about the 133 00:08:25,286 --> 00:08:28,366 Speaker 3: walking EPI. And the nurse was like, yeah, yeah, you know, 134 00:08:28,566 --> 00:08:30,486 Speaker 3: it's like and they sort of went off to the 135 00:08:30,526 --> 00:08:34,246 Speaker 3: corner and talked. And I have trust in medical professionals 136 00:08:34,406 --> 00:08:37,806 Speaker 3: until they show me otherwise. And that was a moment 137 00:08:37,846 --> 00:08:40,926 Speaker 3: where I was like, oh my gosh, what is going on? 138 00:08:41,606 --> 00:08:46,206 Speaker 3: And then the head an etheist came in and she said, here, 139 00:08:46,326 --> 00:08:48,566 Speaker 3: let me do it. And she talked to me and 140 00:08:48,566 --> 00:08:50,606 Speaker 3: she was really calm. She was like, oh, you're having 141 00:08:50,646 --> 00:08:54,006 Speaker 3: a baby, girl, that's so exciting. All right, the Eppie's 142 00:08:54,086 --> 00:08:59,206 Speaker 3: done and walked out, and then I fell asleep and 143 00:08:59,766 --> 00:09:02,166 Speaker 3: I went and I had a really nice nap for 144 00:09:02,206 --> 00:09:07,566 Speaker 3: a couple of hours. And I woke up and you know, 145 00:09:07,806 --> 00:09:09,886 Speaker 3: my husband's there in the room. I think we had 146 00:09:09,926 --> 00:09:12,886 Speaker 3: watched like two movies or he had watched two movies, 147 00:09:12,886 --> 00:09:15,646 Speaker 3: and I was sort of dozing on and off, and 148 00:09:15,726 --> 00:09:18,766 Speaker 3: the midwife came in to check and she it was 149 00:09:19,206 --> 00:09:21,766 Speaker 3: ten forty five and she checked. She went, oh, you're 150 00:09:21,846 --> 00:09:25,806 Speaker 3: nine centimeters dilated. You ready to push? And I was like, yep, 151 00:09:26,006 --> 00:09:30,606 Speaker 3: let's do this. So that is kind of how it went. 152 00:09:31,206 --> 00:09:36,646 Speaker 1: And she came out perfect, perfect. You pushed fifty five 153 00:09:36,726 --> 00:09:38,726 Speaker 1: minutes of pushing. Is he what I've got? 154 00:09:39,086 --> 00:09:42,166 Speaker 3: Yeah? It was fifty five minutes of pushing, and the 155 00:09:42,285 --> 00:09:46,325 Speaker 3: midwife called my obgyn and said she's ready to go. 156 00:09:46,806 --> 00:09:49,326 Speaker 3: And my OBI said, well, why didn't you call me earlier? 157 00:09:49,326 --> 00:09:51,366 Speaker 3: And she said, well, she just woke up and she's 158 00:09:51,405 --> 00:09:55,686 Speaker 3: going to start pushing. And so my ob was at home, 159 00:09:55,886 --> 00:09:57,926 Speaker 3: you know, and she had to drive in. Luckily it 160 00:09:58,006 --> 00:10:01,486 Speaker 3: was like eleven at night. She got in for the 161 00:10:01,566 --> 00:10:05,406 Speaker 3: last kind of half an hour of pushing, and yeah, 162 00:10:05,606 --> 00:10:12,046 Speaker 3: she came out and was perfect. You imagine what it's 163 00:10:12,086 --> 00:10:15,606 Speaker 3: going to be like. And for me, her coming out 164 00:10:15,646 --> 00:10:20,206 Speaker 3: and being on my chest was really like as I 165 00:10:20,246 --> 00:10:22,206 Speaker 3: had imagined it. 166 00:10:22,206 --> 00:10:25,166 Speaker 1: It makes me tear up every time I talk about 167 00:10:25,165 --> 00:10:29,726 Speaker 1: that moment with mums because for me, it's like such 168 00:10:29,806 --> 00:10:34,646 Speaker 1: a visceral feeling that first time that they put on 169 00:10:34,686 --> 00:10:43,045 Speaker 1: your chest. But the complications that you encountered were after 170 00:10:43,405 --> 00:10:46,126 Speaker 1: Camilla came out. Can you tell us a little bit 171 00:10:46,246 --> 00:10:49,126 Speaker 1: about what happened after Camilla was born? 172 00:10:49,686 --> 00:10:54,246 Speaker 3: So she came out, was on my chest, and she 173 00:10:54,246 --> 00:10:56,926 Speaker 3: she's always been a really strong baby. She lifted her 174 00:10:57,045 --> 00:11:00,326 Speaker 3: neck or up and kind of we looked at each 175 00:11:00,366 --> 00:11:02,886 Speaker 3: other and it was just like this amazing moment. My 176 00:11:02,966 --> 00:11:05,726 Speaker 3: husband was there by my side, and we were just 177 00:11:05,806 --> 00:11:09,806 Speaker 3: there in the moment. You know, it really feels like 178 00:11:10,606 --> 00:11:14,246 Speaker 3: everything around you is muted out, you know, and you're 179 00:11:14,285 --> 00:11:17,286 Speaker 3: just kind of they're just that. It was like the 180 00:11:17,326 --> 00:11:22,366 Speaker 3: three of us. And then I looked down at my 181 00:11:23,206 --> 00:11:28,526 Speaker 3: obi and she had a look of concern on her face, 182 00:11:29,246 --> 00:11:34,166 Speaker 3: and I said, what's going on, Like, what's happening? And 183 00:11:34,566 --> 00:11:37,966 Speaker 3: I had noticed at that point there was maybe six 184 00:11:38,526 --> 00:11:41,086 Speaker 3: more people in the room than there was before she 185 00:11:41,165 --> 00:11:43,966 Speaker 3: came out. And she said, Oh, you're losing a lot 186 00:11:44,006 --> 00:11:47,006 Speaker 3: of blood. I'm just trying to fix that right now. 187 00:11:47,526 --> 00:11:50,325 Speaker 3: And I was like, okay, okay, you know, and still 188 00:11:50,405 --> 00:11:53,405 Speaker 3: sort of trying to just be in the moment, not 189 00:11:53,446 --> 00:11:57,206 Speaker 3: really realizing what actually was happening. And I sort of 190 00:11:57,405 --> 00:12:00,206 Speaker 3: looked at Tyson and he kind of kept looking down 191 00:12:00,246 --> 00:12:02,206 Speaker 3: at her, and I saw his face starting to get 192 00:12:02,285 --> 00:12:05,246 Speaker 3: more and more concerned as well. And then the nurse 193 00:12:05,285 --> 00:12:07,405 Speaker 3: came up and said, oh, we're going to take your 194 00:12:07,486 --> 00:12:09,486 Speaker 3: daughter and she's going to have skin on skin with 195 00:12:09,526 --> 00:12:12,046 Speaker 3: your husband just over here, like I could see them. 196 00:12:12,486 --> 00:12:14,486 Speaker 3: But we need to give you an injection to stop 197 00:12:14,526 --> 00:12:17,206 Speaker 3: the bleeding, and some pills as well. And it all 198 00:12:17,246 --> 00:12:20,646 Speaker 3: seems like such a blur, and I remember I took 199 00:12:20,726 --> 00:12:24,006 Speaker 3: the pills, but then I vomited them up straight away 200 00:12:24,086 --> 00:12:28,406 Speaker 3: and it was all yeah, it just felt like the 201 00:12:28,526 --> 00:12:33,285 Speaker 3: room was spinning and I ended up losing quite a 202 00:12:33,326 --> 00:12:37,406 Speaker 3: lot of blood and she managed to stop the bleeding. 203 00:12:38,086 --> 00:12:41,486 Speaker 3: My placenta had come out, but she said, I think 204 00:12:41,486 --> 00:12:44,366 Speaker 3: there's some placenta still inside you, so I have to 205 00:12:44,405 --> 00:12:47,526 Speaker 3: actually manually go in and scoop it out. 206 00:12:47,766 --> 00:12:51,086 Speaker 1: So generally, I think what happens. That's why they check 207 00:12:51,206 --> 00:12:55,126 Speaker 1: the placenta when you delivered the placenta. They need to 208 00:12:55,165 --> 00:12:58,406 Speaker 1: make sure that they've got all of it out. But 209 00:12:58,566 --> 00:13:01,206 Speaker 1: obviously yours had detached. 210 00:13:01,566 --> 00:13:05,126 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, And so she said, I've got to go in. 211 00:13:05,526 --> 00:13:08,406 Speaker 3: And obviously I had the epis so I couldn't really 212 00:13:08,446 --> 00:13:12,206 Speaker 3: feel it, and she, yeah, put her hand in and 213 00:13:12,526 --> 00:13:16,166 Speaker 3: scooped it out, I guess. And I remembered that her face. 214 00:13:16,285 --> 00:13:18,446 Speaker 3: I could. I was just looking at her face and 215 00:13:18,486 --> 00:13:21,686 Speaker 3: thinking something is not right. But I think in that 216 00:13:21,846 --> 00:13:26,165 Speaker 3: whole time I was in shock. I remember feeling like 217 00:13:26,285 --> 00:13:28,446 Speaker 3: nurses coming up to me and talking to me and 218 00:13:29,165 --> 00:13:32,805 Speaker 3: literally seeing their mouths moving but then hearing what they 219 00:13:32,846 --> 00:13:36,166 Speaker 3: were saying. Like a couple of seconds later, like it 220 00:13:36,285 --> 00:13:41,806 Speaker 3: was a really surreal, scary feeling, but also wanting to 221 00:13:41,966 --> 00:13:47,166 Speaker 3: just be with Cammie and my husband. And so then 222 00:13:47,486 --> 00:13:52,846 Speaker 3: I stabilized and they moved me into postpartum at about 223 00:13:52,886 --> 00:13:57,285 Speaker 3: three thirty AM, and that was counted as night one, 224 00:13:57,806 --> 00:14:02,446 Speaker 3: and we were in there for two nights, and I 225 00:14:02,526 --> 00:14:07,686 Speaker 3: remember the next morning my OBG came back who delivered Camilla, 226 00:14:07,926 --> 00:14:10,366 Speaker 3: and I said, I'm really scared. You didn't get all 227 00:14:10,366 --> 00:14:13,606 Speaker 3: the placenta, and she said, I did. I did. I 228 00:14:13,646 --> 00:14:16,646 Speaker 3: went in and I scooped it out and I got 229 00:14:16,686 --> 00:14:21,486 Speaker 3: it and it's all good. But I could feel again 230 00:14:21,726 --> 00:14:28,126 Speaker 3: that something wasn't right. Camilla latched straight away, and I 231 00:14:28,166 --> 00:14:30,806 Speaker 3: think this is where I get emotional, because I feel 232 00:14:30,926 --> 00:14:35,046 Speaker 3: like I let her down, you know, in some way, 233 00:14:35,286 --> 00:14:38,926 Speaker 3: like she was really like they're on the boob, good 234 00:14:38,966 --> 00:14:43,526 Speaker 3: to go, and I just could feel that I wasn't 235 00:14:43,606 --> 00:14:46,846 Speaker 3: producing milk, and it was obviously very early, but I 236 00:14:46,886 --> 00:14:51,086 Speaker 3: also wasn't even producing colostrum. You know. She was crying, 237 00:14:51,166 --> 00:14:55,286 Speaker 3: crying and crying, and I was like, she's just hungry, 238 00:14:55,446 --> 00:14:59,486 Speaker 3: Like she's really really hungry. I need a lactation specialist 239 00:14:59,526 --> 00:15:02,726 Speaker 3: to come in here and help me. And the lactation 240 00:15:02,846 --> 00:15:04,766 Speaker 3: specialists and the nurse are kind of coming up and 241 00:15:04,806 --> 00:15:09,086 Speaker 3: like literally grabbing your boob and trying to get stuff out, 242 00:15:09,166 --> 00:15:13,526 Speaker 3: and nothing was really coming out for me, and I 243 00:15:13,606 --> 00:15:16,966 Speaker 3: just felt helpless because I knew I had lost a 244 00:15:16,966 --> 00:15:19,246 Speaker 3: lot of blood, so I was really trying to hydrate 245 00:15:19,446 --> 00:15:22,646 Speaker 3: and do all the things to get it going, but 246 00:15:22,926 --> 00:15:26,526 Speaker 3: nothing was working. I mean, I was getting the tiniest 247 00:15:26,566 --> 00:15:30,686 Speaker 3: amount coming up. A week later, I went to the 248 00:15:30,686 --> 00:15:36,926 Speaker 3: bathroom and this thing fell out of me and I 249 00:15:37,526 --> 00:15:43,886 Speaker 3: was like, oh my gosh, this is some of my placenta. 250 00:15:44,246 --> 00:15:47,766 Speaker 1: Did you get an iron infusion or a transfusion at all? 251 00:15:48,126 --> 00:15:49,246 Speaker 3: No? I didn't. 252 00:15:49,406 --> 00:15:51,046 Speaker 1: Do you know how much blood you lost? 253 00:15:51,486 --> 00:15:54,845 Speaker 3: Yeah, I lost almost a later and a half. 254 00:15:54,566 --> 00:15:57,085 Speaker 1: And they didn't give you an infusion or transfusion. 255 00:15:57,286 --> 00:16:02,526 Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, and I remember them really clearly saying 256 00:16:02,926 --> 00:16:05,686 Speaker 3: we might move you to another room to give view 257 00:16:05,726 --> 00:16:10,766 Speaker 3: a transfusion. But when monitoring the situation, I remember going okay, okay, 258 00:16:11,166 --> 00:16:16,046 Speaker 3: and yeah they never did because from what I remember 259 00:16:16,086 --> 00:16:20,286 Speaker 3: and what Tyson remembers is I stabilized and they moved 260 00:16:20,406 --> 00:16:23,166 Speaker 3: me into the postpartum ward. 261 00:16:23,606 --> 00:16:26,086 Speaker 1: A later and a half is quite I know, a. 262 00:16:26,006 --> 00:16:32,286 Speaker 3: Lot significant, Yeah, and I remember when we came home. 263 00:16:32,886 --> 00:16:36,006 Speaker 3: Through my health insurance, I had I think it was 264 00:16:36,046 --> 00:16:39,446 Speaker 3: twelve visits with a lactation specialist and she came over 265 00:16:39,486 --> 00:16:43,126 Speaker 3: and I told her what was happening. She said, you know, 266 00:16:43,246 --> 00:16:47,886 Speaker 3: you could have almost died, Like that was really scary. 267 00:16:48,606 --> 00:16:51,406 Speaker 3: And I think it was only then that I realized 268 00:16:51,446 --> 00:16:55,766 Speaker 3: the seriousness of the situation. And when we got home, 269 00:16:56,646 --> 00:17:01,006 Speaker 3: you know, we were totally in love with Camilla and 270 00:17:01,926 --> 00:17:05,566 Speaker 3: new parents and it was all really exciting, but the 271 00:17:05,566 --> 00:17:11,806 Speaker 3: feeding thing was really I knew something was up. So 272 00:17:11,886 --> 00:17:16,326 Speaker 3: I called the lactation specialist and she came over and 273 00:17:16,406 --> 00:17:19,886 Speaker 3: she's talked to me about triple feeding. So triple feeding 274 00:17:19,966 --> 00:17:25,406 Speaker 3: is when they tell you to first pump for thirty minutes, 275 00:17:25,646 --> 00:17:28,366 Speaker 3: then put the baby on your boob for thirty minutes, 276 00:17:28,686 --> 00:17:33,246 Speaker 3: and then the third one is top up with formula. 277 00:17:32,606 --> 00:17:34,686 Speaker 1: Basically trying to get your supply going. 278 00:17:35,166 --> 00:17:37,286 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I was I was doing all of that 279 00:17:38,126 --> 00:17:42,166 Speaker 3: around the clock, like all the time, and my supply 280 00:17:42,646 --> 00:17:47,366 Speaker 3: just was not increasing at all. And I said to 281 00:17:47,406 --> 00:17:49,766 Speaker 3: my husband, like, I think this is something to do 282 00:17:49,806 --> 00:17:53,606 Speaker 3: with my placenta. Like when the placenta comes out, that 283 00:17:53,766 --> 00:17:56,526 Speaker 3: is what signals to the brain that it's time to 284 00:17:56,566 --> 00:17:59,406 Speaker 3: start the milk, and he said, you know, I mean, 285 00:17:59,526 --> 00:18:02,206 Speaker 3: we both know now, but like he was like, it's 286 00:18:02,206 --> 00:18:05,006 Speaker 3: all right, Like the doctor checked, and the doctor did 287 00:18:05,086 --> 00:18:10,086 Speaker 3: check anyway. So yeah, it was a whole really really 288 00:18:10,326 --> 00:18:13,766 Speaker 3: hard situation to try and work out. And I think, 289 00:18:14,086 --> 00:18:17,286 Speaker 3: you know, before even having a baby, like I hadn't 290 00:18:17,646 --> 00:18:20,486 Speaker 3: thought about, oh what if my milk doesn't come in. 291 00:18:21,086 --> 00:18:23,246 Speaker 3: I guess I was naive and I thought, Oh, it's 292 00:18:23,246 --> 00:18:25,846 Speaker 3: just going to happen for me, you know. And so 293 00:18:26,006 --> 00:18:30,086 Speaker 3: then a week later I went to the bathroom and 294 00:18:30,606 --> 00:18:35,846 Speaker 3: this thing fell out of me and I was like, 295 00:18:36,446 --> 00:18:39,486 Speaker 3: oh my gosh, this is some of my placenta. And 296 00:18:39,526 --> 00:18:42,646 Speaker 3: that was about ten thirty at night, and I was worried. 297 00:18:42,686 --> 00:18:43,965 Speaker 3: I was like, am I going to start bleeding? 298 00:18:44,366 --> 00:18:46,726 Speaker 1: How old was Cammy at this time? 299 00:18:47,126 --> 00:18:49,046 Speaker 3: One week exactly? A week? 300 00:18:49,366 --> 00:18:53,846 Speaker 1: Okay, so a week after a piece of tissue falls out, Yeah, 301 00:18:53,926 --> 00:18:56,766 Speaker 1: and you're like, this is my placenter. Your intuition is 302 00:18:56,766 --> 00:19:00,086 Speaker 1: telling you, as it had since the hospital, that there 303 00:19:00,126 --> 00:19:01,206 Speaker 1: was still placenta there. 304 00:19:01,406 --> 00:19:05,246 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I kid you not. The next day my 305 00:19:05,526 --> 00:19:10,166 Speaker 3: supply slightly increased, and I was like, oh my goodness, 306 00:19:10,646 --> 00:19:13,446 Speaker 3: this is placenta. So I went back to the hospital 307 00:19:13,846 --> 00:19:16,486 Speaker 3: the next day. My mom was here by that time, 308 00:19:17,166 --> 00:19:20,366 Speaker 3: and I said, can you please do another ultrasound? Like 309 00:19:20,566 --> 00:19:23,406 Speaker 3: I literally brought the piece of the thing that had 310 00:19:23,406 --> 00:19:26,926 Speaker 3: fallen out of me in a glass jar to the 311 00:19:26,966 --> 00:19:30,406 Speaker 3: hospital and I said, please, can you check this? And 312 00:19:30,446 --> 00:19:32,086 Speaker 3: they came back and they told me that it was 313 00:19:32,126 --> 00:19:37,366 Speaker 3: a blood clot and it was no placental tissue whatsoever. 314 00:19:38,206 --> 00:19:40,246 Speaker 3: And I was sort of none the wiser, you know. 315 00:19:40,566 --> 00:19:42,926 Speaker 3: I thought, Okay, it's a blood clot. There you go. 316 00:19:43,526 --> 00:19:47,206 Speaker 3: So then I went back home still continued the whole 317 00:19:47,246 --> 00:19:51,166 Speaker 3: triple feeding thing. People listening are probably like, oh my gosh, girl, 318 00:19:51,206 --> 00:19:54,806 Speaker 3: why didn't you just put the baby on formula? And 319 00:19:55,126 --> 00:19:58,206 Speaker 3: in hindsight, I should have done it earlier, but I 320 00:19:58,366 --> 00:20:03,646 Speaker 3: felt this annoying responsibility that I should try my hardest 321 00:20:03,766 --> 00:20:08,646 Speaker 3: to breastfeed her. I did that, and I think I 322 00:20:08,646 --> 00:20:12,366 Speaker 3: would pump for like an hour and get like thirty 323 00:20:12,406 --> 00:20:16,206 Speaker 3: mils of milk. It was really awful. 324 00:20:16,366 --> 00:20:18,326 Speaker 1: I know exactly what you're talking about, that pressure that 325 00:20:18,366 --> 00:20:20,846 Speaker 1: we put on ourselves to like, no, I need to 326 00:20:20,886 --> 00:20:24,286 Speaker 1: breast feed, and you kind of get like a bit obsessed. Again. 327 00:20:24,326 --> 00:20:27,206 Speaker 1: I had a similar experience, and at one point I 328 00:20:27,286 --> 00:20:29,566 Speaker 1: was like, for my mental health, I just need to stop, 329 00:20:29,646 --> 00:20:32,086 Speaker 1: Like I can't do this anymore. Yeah, but I really 330 00:20:32,126 --> 00:20:34,606 Speaker 1: want to get to your six week appointment. You went 331 00:20:34,646 --> 00:20:37,646 Speaker 1: to the doctor and you insisted on them checking you 332 00:20:37,726 --> 00:20:40,446 Speaker 1: again because something was still not right. 333 00:20:41,086 --> 00:20:44,246 Speaker 3: Well, I actually went to the doctor at two weeks 334 00:20:44,286 --> 00:20:47,846 Speaker 3: postpartum and I said, something's not right. My milk supply 335 00:20:47,966 --> 00:20:51,246 Speaker 3: is not in, and she prescribed me a pill to 336 00:20:51,406 --> 00:20:55,206 Speaker 3: take to increase my supply. I went home, I was 337 00:20:55,286 --> 00:20:57,526 Speaker 3: chatting with my mom and we looked up the side 338 00:20:57,526 --> 00:21:00,806 Speaker 3: effects and they were like full on side effects. And 339 00:21:00,806 --> 00:21:04,246 Speaker 3: that's when Mum said to me, Anna, you were fully 340 00:21:04,286 --> 00:21:08,486 Speaker 3: formula fed. Your sister was fully formula fed. It is okay, 341 00:21:08,966 --> 00:21:11,646 Speaker 3: and I think you have to come to terms with 342 00:21:11,726 --> 00:21:14,566 Speaker 3: it in your own way. I think you can have 343 00:21:14,806 --> 00:21:18,566 Speaker 3: so many people tell you like it's okay, but you 344 00:21:18,646 --> 00:21:22,446 Speaker 3: really just need to get there yourself. You need to 345 00:21:22,526 --> 00:21:26,086 Speaker 3: give yourself permission. So many people can tell you just 346 00:21:26,126 --> 00:21:29,806 Speaker 3: put them on formula it's all good, but it takes time, 347 00:21:29,926 --> 00:21:32,486 Speaker 3: and every woman is going to kind of make that 348 00:21:32,606 --> 00:21:35,286 Speaker 3: decision in their own way and their own time. 349 00:21:35,686 --> 00:21:38,086 Speaker 1: I agree with you one hundred percent. It really does 350 00:21:38,246 --> 00:21:42,406 Speaker 1: need to be an individual decision because of the noise. 351 00:21:42,406 --> 00:21:45,126 Speaker 3: And so many people were telling me, but it wasn't 352 00:21:45,246 --> 00:21:48,486 Speaker 3: until like I had decided I am going to stop. 353 00:21:48,686 --> 00:21:51,526 Speaker 1: Apart from the fact that your milk hadn't come in, 354 00:21:52,406 --> 00:21:56,086 Speaker 1: was there something else telling you that there was still 355 00:21:56,126 --> 00:21:57,166 Speaker 1: placenter in there. 356 00:21:57,526 --> 00:22:00,966 Speaker 3: I was still bleeding at six weeks at my six 357 00:22:01,006 --> 00:22:06,086 Speaker 3: week appointment, and I had heard that the Lokier Lockier 358 00:22:06,806 --> 00:22:12,006 Speaker 3: changes in color and amount, and that stayed pretty constant 359 00:22:12,046 --> 00:22:15,806 Speaker 3: for me. I also had this kind of it was 360 00:22:15,846 --> 00:22:20,646 Speaker 3: like a pain in my stomach and I just had 361 00:22:20,686 --> 00:22:25,526 Speaker 3: this like feeling as well, there's something still there. And 362 00:22:26,326 --> 00:22:29,566 Speaker 3: even though you know, my husband, my mom, the doctor 363 00:22:30,166 --> 00:22:33,926 Speaker 3: was like nope, it's gone. I felt crazy. But I 364 00:22:33,966 --> 00:22:37,126 Speaker 3: also was like, I have to just follow my instinct 365 00:22:37,206 --> 00:22:40,206 Speaker 3: with this. And that brought me to my six week appointment, 366 00:22:40,486 --> 00:22:45,406 Speaker 3: which I went in and she basically said, all right, 367 00:22:45,446 --> 00:22:47,606 Speaker 3: so do you want to go back on the contraceptive pill? 368 00:22:48,646 --> 00:22:51,486 Speaker 3: And you know, and we spoke a little bit about 369 00:22:51,486 --> 00:22:55,446 Speaker 3: everything in the feeding situation, and I was still trying, 370 00:22:55,566 --> 00:22:59,566 Speaker 3: but really much more on formula at this point, and 371 00:23:00,006 --> 00:23:04,126 Speaker 3: I think Cammie was getting like one bottle every three 372 00:23:04,246 --> 00:23:07,806 Speaker 3: days of breast milk, if that gives you an understanding. 373 00:23:07,806 --> 00:23:10,766 Speaker 3: And I'm you know, feeding around the clock. Anyway, I 374 00:23:10,966 --> 00:23:13,366 Speaker 3: finally said at the six week appointment, I'd really like 375 00:23:13,446 --> 00:23:17,166 Speaker 3: you to do an ultrasound and I just want to check. 376 00:23:17,926 --> 00:23:24,446 Speaker 3: And she did an ultrasound and she came back in 377 00:23:24,566 --> 00:23:31,006 Speaker 3: and she said, yeah, there's something there. And I was like, oh, 378 00:23:31,046 --> 00:23:31,766 Speaker 3: my goodness. 379 00:23:32,246 --> 00:23:34,046 Speaker 1: Did you feel so vindicated? Then? 380 00:23:34,406 --> 00:23:37,446 Speaker 3: Yeah, I felt totally gas lit. I know everyone throws 381 00:23:37,446 --> 00:23:43,846 Speaker 3: that word around, but I felt really scared because I 382 00:23:43,966 --> 00:23:48,966 Speaker 3: had read, obviously, because I was convinced, so I had 383 00:23:49,046 --> 00:23:52,606 Speaker 3: read that you know, people can get really sick when 384 00:23:52,606 --> 00:23:55,446 Speaker 3: they have retained placenta in there that hasn't been taken out, 385 00:23:55,486 --> 00:24:00,406 Speaker 3: and yeah, so I was really worried. And then she said, oh, 386 00:24:00,446 --> 00:24:02,686 Speaker 3: we need to do a saline sono, which is when 387 00:24:02,686 --> 00:24:06,126 Speaker 3: they put salt water up there and do an ultrasound 388 00:24:06,326 --> 00:24:10,086 Speaker 3: with salt water in your uterine cavity to really look 389 00:24:10,166 --> 00:24:12,926 Speaker 3: at what this is and where it is. So we 390 00:24:13,006 --> 00:24:17,486 Speaker 3: did that and then she confirmed it again and she said, 391 00:24:17,606 --> 00:24:19,486 Speaker 3: we're going to have to do a DNC to get 392 00:24:19,486 --> 00:24:23,446 Speaker 3: this taken out. And I was like, I hate to say, 393 00:24:23,646 --> 00:24:26,006 Speaker 3: I told you, so, you know, like it was just 394 00:24:26,926 --> 00:24:30,486 Speaker 3: this awful feeling. And I also don't I really don't 395 00:24:30,526 --> 00:24:35,006 Speaker 3: want to make this about the doctor. She was doing 396 00:24:35,286 --> 00:24:38,246 Speaker 3: what she could the best she could with the information 397 00:24:38,366 --> 00:24:42,246 Speaker 3: she had. You know, she's very experienced. I've sought her out, 398 00:24:42,686 --> 00:24:45,966 Speaker 3: So I don't want this to be like a thing 399 00:24:46,006 --> 00:24:48,886 Speaker 3: about the doctor, because I saw a few different doctors. 400 00:24:49,326 --> 00:24:52,846 Speaker 1: I think it's just more about advocating for yourself. And 401 00:24:52,886 --> 00:24:55,326 Speaker 1: we are hearing a lot about this, like if you 402 00:24:55,446 --> 00:24:58,526 Speaker 1: really feel something, really pushing for it no matter what 403 00:24:58,686 --> 00:25:00,566 Speaker 1: anyone says, because what's the harm? 404 00:25:00,606 --> 00:25:04,246 Speaker 3: And k octo sound exactly. And when I went in 405 00:25:04,286 --> 00:25:07,886 Speaker 3: at two weeks and they gave me these pills, I 406 00:25:07,926 --> 00:25:10,926 Speaker 3: asked for an ultrasound then and they said, no, just 407 00:25:11,526 --> 00:25:13,886 Speaker 3: take these pills. We've got all the tissue out. It's 408 00:25:13,886 --> 00:25:18,166 Speaker 3: all good. And I really wish I pushed then, so 409 00:25:18,486 --> 00:25:23,366 Speaker 3: went and had the DNC and then she said that 410 00:25:23,406 --> 00:25:27,166 Speaker 3: there was a lot of bleeding in that DNC. So 411 00:25:27,886 --> 00:25:29,886 Speaker 3: I wanted to go and get a second opinion, so 412 00:25:29,966 --> 00:25:33,286 Speaker 3: I went to my maternal fetal specialist who I had 413 00:25:33,326 --> 00:25:37,846 Speaker 3: seen throughout my pregnancy, and he did an ultrasound and 414 00:25:38,726 --> 00:25:45,326 Speaker 3: the tissue is still in my uterus. So with placenta 415 00:25:45,366 --> 00:25:49,726 Speaker 3: a creta, it's a very rare condition. It is becoming 416 00:25:49,766 --> 00:25:52,846 Speaker 3: more known. But there are three sort of steps to it. 417 00:25:52,846 --> 00:25:56,606 Speaker 3: There's a creta where the placenta attaches to the wall. 418 00:25:56,686 --> 00:26:00,965 Speaker 3: There's in creata where the placenta actually grows into the 419 00:26:00,966 --> 00:26:04,205 Speaker 3: wall of the uterus, and then there's per creta where 420 00:26:05,086 --> 00:26:10,286 Speaker 3: the placenta goes through the uterus. And so he thinks 421 00:26:10,366 --> 00:26:15,406 Speaker 3: that I have in creata where it's grown into my uterus, 422 00:26:15,846 --> 00:26:19,406 Speaker 3: you know, So that was just another thing to face 423 00:26:20,166 --> 00:26:22,886 Speaker 3: in the journey of it. But I think at the 424 00:26:22,966 --> 00:26:26,406 Speaker 3: time he assured me that there was like no blood 425 00:26:26,446 --> 00:26:30,646 Speaker 3: supply to that tissue anymore. So I was worried about, 426 00:26:31,086 --> 00:26:34,246 Speaker 3: you know, with retained placenta, they talk about you hemorrhaging 427 00:26:34,846 --> 00:26:38,686 Speaker 3: and stepsters, and he assured me that that would not happen. 428 00:26:39,326 --> 00:26:43,766 Speaker 3: And what the future holds in terms of, you know, 429 00:26:43,926 --> 00:26:48,286 Speaker 3: other pregnancies, we don't know. I don't know. I have 430 00:26:49,006 --> 00:26:51,006 Speaker 3: a check up with him in a couple of months, 431 00:26:51,606 --> 00:26:55,286 Speaker 3: and I think right now, just focusing like on the 432 00:26:55,326 --> 00:26:59,206 Speaker 3: present and being with Cammi and Tyson is the most 433 00:26:59,246 --> 00:27:01,366 Speaker 3: important thing. And what we're trying to do. 434 00:27:01,966 --> 00:27:03,926 Speaker 1: So what do you think you've kind of learned from 435 00:27:03,966 --> 00:27:04,926 Speaker 1: this process? 436 00:27:05,526 --> 00:27:09,126 Speaker 3: I mean so many things, but the main thing is 437 00:27:09,486 --> 00:27:13,886 Speaker 3: to trust your gut, trust your instincts, and don't be 438 00:27:13,966 --> 00:27:17,406 Speaker 3: afraid to advocate for yourself. If you really have a 439 00:27:17,446 --> 00:27:22,406 Speaker 3: strong feeling, trust that and follow that and book the appointment. 440 00:27:22,526 --> 00:27:25,926 Speaker 3: I mean, we hear it with like endometriosis and women 441 00:27:26,166 --> 00:27:29,526 Speaker 3: having to see so many different doctors until they get 442 00:27:29,766 --> 00:27:33,886 Speaker 3: that diagnosis, and I think it's, yeah, it's so important 443 00:27:34,046 --> 00:27:37,965 Speaker 3: to trust your instincts and follow up on things. I 444 00:27:38,006 --> 00:27:41,846 Speaker 3: have no idea the situation that I would be and 445 00:27:41,966 --> 00:27:45,886 Speaker 3: had I not demanded that ultrasound, I don't even want 446 00:27:45,886 --> 00:27:48,965 Speaker 3: to think about it. But I think we're faced with 447 00:27:49,166 --> 00:27:54,205 Speaker 3: so many different decisions when we have a child, and 448 00:27:54,446 --> 00:27:58,046 Speaker 3: for me, like feeding was the biggest one, but obviously 449 00:27:58,126 --> 00:28:02,246 Speaker 3: you have to come to terms with your own answers 450 00:28:02,606 --> 00:28:06,326 Speaker 3: and in your own time, but also to there are 451 00:28:06,366 --> 00:28:10,206 Speaker 3: so many decisions. Make the decision because there's going to 452 00:28:10,246 --> 00:28:10,846 Speaker 3: be another one. 453 00:28:11,246 --> 00:28:14,566 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you for sharing your story so soon after, 454 00:28:14,846 --> 00:28:18,086 Speaker 1: Like there's no like tight ending to this. You know 455 00:28:18,126 --> 00:28:20,486 Speaker 1: you're still going through it, so I really appreciate you 456 00:28:20,566 --> 00:28:24,366 Speaker 1: sharing your story. Whilst still sort of navigating it. 457 00:28:24,966 --> 00:28:27,926 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's why I really wanted to because 458 00:28:27,926 --> 00:28:30,766 Speaker 3: it's something that I don't want to scare people, but 459 00:28:30,886 --> 00:28:33,726 Speaker 3: I think people should know about it and be aware 460 00:28:33,766 --> 00:28:34,046 Speaker 3: of it. 461 00:28:34,086 --> 00:28:43,086 Speaker 4: For sure, because placenta accreta is rare, I wanted to 462 00:28:43,086 --> 00:28:46,966 Speaker 4: get some input from our obstrtion and gynecologist, doctor Bromin 463 00:28:47,006 --> 00:28:48,406 Speaker 4: Devine on the condition. 464 00:28:49,006 --> 00:28:52,286 Speaker 5: Well, this is a condition known as placenta a creta 465 00:28:52,406 --> 00:28:56,166 Speaker 5: spectrum or PAS, it's referred to, and it's a rare 466 00:28:56,246 --> 00:28:59,366 Speaker 5: complication in pregnancy, but it is becoming more common. So 467 00:28:59,686 --> 00:29:03,566 Speaker 5: what happens is when the placenta forms very early at 468 00:29:03,566 --> 00:29:08,366 Speaker 5: the time of implantation, the profectoom or very early placental 469 00:29:08,366 --> 00:29:12,246 Speaker 5: tissue burrows into a specialized lining in the uterus known 470 00:29:12,286 --> 00:29:16,166 Speaker 5: as the decidua. But if that happens in an abnormal way, 471 00:29:16,326 --> 00:29:19,006 Speaker 5: it can burrow in deeper than the decidua into the 472 00:29:19,086 --> 00:29:22,926 Speaker 5: muscle of the uterus and form a very abnormal attachment, 473 00:29:23,526 --> 00:29:25,846 Speaker 5: and sometimes that can burrow all the way through the 474 00:29:25,926 --> 00:29:29,606 Speaker 5: muscle of the uterus, or sometimes right through the uterus 475 00:29:29,806 --> 00:29:32,486 Speaker 5: into some organs next to the utresus, like sometimes into 476 00:29:32,526 --> 00:29:35,806 Speaker 5: the bladder and things like that. So it's a spectrum 477 00:29:35,846 --> 00:29:40,126 Speaker 5: of abnormalities very very serious and can be associated at 478 00:29:40,126 --> 00:29:43,206 Speaker 5: the time of the baby's birth of catastrophic bleeding. So 479 00:29:43,766 --> 00:29:46,446 Speaker 5: it's something that we do try and pick up while 480 00:29:46,446 --> 00:29:48,766 Speaker 5: the person is pregnant, and the best way to pick 481 00:29:48,766 --> 00:29:51,126 Speaker 5: it up is usually with a very good quality ultrasound, 482 00:29:51,726 --> 00:29:54,526 Speaker 5: and then if we do detect it being present, we 483 00:29:54,686 --> 00:29:58,166 Speaker 5: often make a plan for that person to have a 484 00:29:58,206 --> 00:30:02,606 Speaker 5: caesarean birth with a hysterectomy at the time of the birth. Now, 485 00:30:02,646 --> 00:30:06,366 Speaker 5: obviously that doesn't happen in every circumstance, as it happened 486 00:30:06,366 --> 00:30:09,366 Speaker 5: in this one, because it wasn't diagnosed till after the 487 00:30:09,406 --> 00:30:11,446 Speaker 5: baby was born, and in fact after most of the 488 00:30:11,486 --> 00:30:14,606 Speaker 5: placenta came away. So sometimes what can happen is an 489 00:30:14,686 --> 00:30:18,366 Speaker 5: isolated part of the placenta can be stuck to the 490 00:30:18,446 --> 00:30:22,886 Speaker 5: uterus and not come away, and as happened in this case, 491 00:30:23,526 --> 00:30:27,286 Speaker 5: what that led to was an abnormal establishment of breastfeeding 492 00:30:27,326 --> 00:30:32,846 Speaker 5: because what causes milk production to start is the placenta 493 00:30:32,886 --> 00:30:36,366 Speaker 5: coming away, So not being pregnant anymore, the placenta coming away, 494 00:30:36,526 --> 00:30:39,846 Speaker 5: loss of all those placental hormones starts the big cascade 495 00:30:40,086 --> 00:30:43,926 Speaker 5: that allows breastfeeding to establish, but if there is placenta 496 00:30:44,006 --> 00:30:47,566 Speaker 5: left behind, then sometimes that can be interfered with. One 497 00:30:47,566 --> 00:30:49,966 Speaker 5: of the reasons we're seeing placenta recrete a spectrum a 498 00:30:50,006 --> 00:30:53,646 Speaker 5: little bit more commonly is that we're doing more caesarean sections, 499 00:30:53,686 --> 00:30:56,886 Speaker 5: and caesarean sections lead to scarring in the uterus, and 500 00:30:56,926 --> 00:31:00,646 Speaker 5: it's scarring in the uterus that can cause the placenta 501 00:31:00,686 --> 00:31:03,926 Speaker 5: to sort of burrow through the scar in an abnormal way, 502 00:31:04,246 --> 00:31:06,566 Speaker 5: but other things as well. Sometimes having had a CURET 503 00:31:06,606 --> 00:31:08,886 Speaker 5: in the past with a little bit of scarring associated 504 00:31:08,926 --> 00:31:12,486 Speaker 5: with the CURET. Other types of uterine surgery can lead 505 00:31:12,526 --> 00:31:16,686 Speaker 5: to this condition where the placenta doesn't implant properly, it 506 00:31:16,726 --> 00:31:20,926 Speaker 5: implants too deeply and right through or through partially through 507 00:31:20,966 --> 00:31:21,766 Speaker 5: the uterus. 508 00:31:22,206 --> 00:31:25,006 Speaker 1: And what about its effects on future fertility. 509 00:31:25,526 --> 00:31:28,526 Speaker 5: If you've had an normally adherent placenta in the past, 510 00:31:28,566 --> 00:31:31,326 Speaker 5: you are at risk for it happening again, And certainly 511 00:31:31,326 --> 00:31:34,206 Speaker 5: if you've had uterine surgeries in the past, you're at 512 00:31:34,326 --> 00:31:38,406 Speaker 5: risk of placenta a crete spectrum occurring. So what would 513 00:31:38,446 --> 00:31:40,966 Speaker 5: happen in a subsequent pregnancy is and it would be 514 00:31:41,166 --> 00:31:45,166 Speaker 5: watched very closely and have some high quality ultrasounds to determine, 515 00:31:45,166 --> 00:31:48,966 Speaker 5: because a really good quality ultrasound can see that interface 516 00:31:49,046 --> 00:31:52,126 Speaker 5: between the placenta and the uterus and see if it's 517 00:31:52,166 --> 00:31:56,366 Speaker 5: abnormally adherent, and then she'd be managed through the pregnancy 518 00:31:56,606 --> 00:31:59,646 Speaker 5: according to the risk. So if it was deemed that 519 00:31:59,926 --> 00:32:02,326 Speaker 5: it would be more appropriate for her to look at 520 00:32:02,366 --> 00:32:05,286 Speaker 5: having a caesarean section berth and then have her uteruss 521 00:32:05,286 --> 00:32:08,526 Speaker 5: from that's a big ask though, because it means you 522 00:32:08,566 --> 00:32:11,286 Speaker 5: have your uterus removed. Unless you look at surrogacy, you're 523 00:32:11,286 --> 00:32:14,326 Speaker 5: not going to have any more children. So it's definitely 524 00:32:14,326 --> 00:32:18,246 Speaker 5: something that is discussed in a very in depth way 525 00:32:18,286 --> 00:32:21,206 Speaker 5: with the patient and the treatment team, and it's often 526 00:32:21,246 --> 00:32:25,446 Speaker 5: a multidisciplinary team. We have the obstetricians but also specialist 527 00:32:25,726 --> 00:32:30,166 Speaker 5: gynecologists who do very complicated surgery. So it's a very 528 00:32:30,846 --> 00:32:34,606 Speaker 5: carefully managed pregnancy. The next time Round. 529 00:32:39,086 --> 00:32:41,806 Speaker 1: Diary of a Birth was hosted by me Casanu Lukich 530 00:32:41,886 --> 00:32:45,206 Speaker 1: with expert input from Dr Bronwin Devine. If you like 531 00:32:45,246 --> 00:32:47,806 Speaker 1: our show, don't forget to subscribe and rate. It goes 532 00:32:47,846 --> 00:32:51,526 Speaker 1: a long way to allowing us to continue sharing your stories. 533 00:32:52,846 --> 00:32:56,606 Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Ella Maitland and myself Kasanu Lukitch, 534 00:32:56,726 --> 00:32:59,006 Speaker 1: with audio production by Tina Mattalov. 535 00:33:10,486 --> 00:33:13,806 Speaker 3: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land. We 536 00:33:13,886 --> 00:33:17,286 Speaker 3: have recorded this podcast on the Gadigul people of the 537 00:33:17,286 --> 00:33:21,006 Speaker 3: Eor nation. We pay our respects to their elders past 538 00:33:21,086 --> 00:33:24,686 Speaker 3: and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and 539 00:33:24,766 --> 00:33:26,286 Speaker 3: torrest Rate islander cultures.