WEBVTT - Sex Tips (For Married Women Only) 0:00:10.622 --> 0:00:13.342 You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. 0:00:13.822 --> 0:00:17.182 Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:17.222 --> 0:00:18.822 that this podcast is recorded on. 0:00:19.182 --> 0:00:23.742 Hey out Louders, it's me. Just before we start Friday's show, 0:00:23.822 --> 0:00:26.782 we wanted to send our love and support to all 0:00:26.822 --> 0:00:30.782 the out louders who are in Queensland and currently experiencing 0:00:31.262 --> 0:00:34.861 the flooding that he is happening across various regions, particularly 0:00:34.902 --> 0:00:39.902 in southeastern Queensland. There have been evacuation orders for many 0:00:39.982 --> 0:00:44.902 areas emergency declarations. There is terrible damage to infrastructure like 0:00:45.022 --> 0:00:50.062 roads and bridges, and travel and access to essential services 0:00:50.102 --> 0:00:54.622 has been disrupted. It's also devastating agricultural areas. There are 0:00:54.702 --> 0:00:58.662 crops that have been damaged and livestock that have been lost, 0:00:59.302 --> 0:01:01.982 and there are likely to be long term implications for 0:01:02.022 --> 0:01:05.342 the local economy, which is just devastating. There are local 0:01:05.342 --> 0:01:09.142 communities and organizations that are mobilizing to provide support to 0:01:09.142 --> 0:01:12.902 those of affected and also relief. There are initiatives to 0:01:13.102 --> 0:01:16.581 collect donations and offer assistance to all the families that 0:01:16.622 --> 0:01:19.142 have been displaced by the floods. So we will put 0:01:19.142 --> 0:01:21.502 a link to all of those in the show notes. 0:01:21.542 --> 0:01:24.062 Please help out if you can, and you might not 0:01:24.142 --> 0:01:26.301 have been aware of this because it is not receiving 0:01:26.342 --> 0:01:29.902 a lot of national news coverage. To be perfectly honest, 0:01:30.062 --> 0:01:33.462 when mortified that we didn't pick up on it, and 0:01:33.502 --> 0:01:36.302 thank you to the outluders who drew it to our attention. 0:01:36.422 --> 0:01:38.822 Otherwise we would have definitely spoken about it earlier in 0:01:38.862 --> 0:01:42.062 the week. So we're sending our love and support to 0:01:42.142 --> 0:01:45.982 all the outlouders affected and hanging there. We are thinking 0:01:46.022 --> 0:01:52.342 of you. I was increasing way weightload of my handweight. 0:01:52.502 --> 0:01:56.182 How can I just ask how much with five kilo dumbbells? 0:01:56.622 --> 0:02:01.742 Wow? Just just me what you lift at the gym 0:02:01.862 --> 0:02:06.582 Arnold Schwarzenegger six Actually quite a bradst. 0:02:08.942 --> 0:02:11.262 Hello and welcome to Mama Me are out Loud and 0:02:11.341 --> 0:02:14.022 our Friday show where we do not talk about anything 0:02:14.022 --> 0:02:17.022 in the news because the news is poop today, talk 0:02:17.061 --> 0:02:17.862 about other things. 0:02:18.022 --> 0:02:20.222 It's Friday, the fourth of April, and my name is 0:02:20.262 --> 0:02:27.702 Hollywayen right, I'm Jesse Hi. Apparently I'm me afraid. I'm 0:02:27.822 --> 0:02:31.982 quite confused. Everything from me des that I just said that. 0:02:32.742 --> 0:02:37.102 I'm sorry. Okay, that's a good start on the show. 0:02:37.142 --> 0:02:42.342 Today, celebrations of Hot Wives, sex tips only for married women, 0:02:42.542 --> 0:02:46.862 natural contraception and nap time friendly careers. Welcome to the 0:02:46.902 --> 0:02:49.582 new movement of conservative. 0:02:48.902 --> 0:02:50.302 Cosmo media brands. 0:02:50.662 --> 0:02:54.222 Also a very funny TV show, an instant Australian classic, 0:02:54.342 --> 0:02:58.942 and the most perfect audiobook experience imaginable. That's our recommendations 0:02:59.542 --> 0:03:02.302 and best and worst of the week, including Jesse having 0:03:02.302 --> 0:03:05.902 a weekend from Hell, Brent cutting my grass, and me 0:03:06.022 --> 0:03:08.781 I'm meeting her people, but first Jesse Stevens. 0:03:08.902 --> 0:03:11.542 In case you missed it, the generations are fighting again, 0:03:11.862 --> 0:03:14.582 but this time it's about something that really matters. It's 0:03:14.622 --> 0:03:18.382 high stakes, all right, it's gym clothes. There's an argument 0:03:18.422 --> 0:03:21.462 brewing on TikTok and it is between millennials and gen 0:03:21.542 --> 0:03:25.502 z Okay again it is like the socks situation. It's 0:03:25.542 --> 0:03:29.262 the jeans all over again, but now it's about whether 0:03:29.382 --> 0:03:32.462 or not you wear tight clothes to the gym. Apparently 0:03:32.502 --> 0:03:34.502 it is a marker of your age. 0:03:35.302 --> 0:03:37.942 So so a tight clothes say you're old or not? 0:03:38.302 --> 0:03:40.462 Yes, Oh, they say that you're a millennial. So I 0:03:40.502 --> 0:03:44.022 acknowledge that this is ridiculous. But millennials apparently opt for 0:03:44.102 --> 0:03:47.502 tight on tight, So think like a cropped sports brass 0:03:47.502 --> 0:03:50.462 situation or a singlet and then like shorts or tights 0:03:50.542 --> 0:03:51.942 or whatever, whereas gens. 0:03:51.622 --> 0:03:54.342 Like shorts like tight shorts. 0:03:54.102 --> 0:03:57.022 Yes, gen z, they say that what's a lot cooler 0:03:57.302 --> 0:03:58.742 is to wear something tight on the bottom and then 0:03:58.782 --> 0:03:59.902 like an oversized teeth. 0:03:59.942 --> 0:04:02.462 Oh my god, for the first time in a long time, 0:04:02.542 --> 0:04:04.742 I am young. I always wear a big, baggy T 0:04:04.822 --> 0:04:08.302 shirt and shorts to the gym. Well, apparently, Princess Diana, Yes, 0:04:08.382 --> 0:04:08.902 exactly right. 0:04:08.902 --> 0:04:12.182 It's very ninety Apparently tight on tight is very middle school, 0:04:12.182 --> 0:04:14.262 and I have no idea what that means. I want 0:04:14.302 --> 0:04:16.541 to puff a fish for a moment about gym clothes 0:04:16.622 --> 0:04:19.981 because I cannot express how bad I look at the gym. 0:04:20.942 --> 0:04:23.742 I do not own a set, and if I did, 0:04:23.902 --> 0:04:25.462 I would never be able to find two of the 0:04:25.462 --> 0:04:28.182 things at the same time. When I the absolute are 0:04:28.301 --> 0:04:30.261 I have for women walking down the street in a 0:04:30.301 --> 0:04:33.501 gym set, I just want to bow down. They're both clean, 0:04:34.061 --> 0:04:37.582 you look fabulous. Sometimes they match, Oh goodness, and I 0:04:37.582 --> 0:04:40.502 always imagine they just just arrived on their doorstep, because 0:04:40.501 --> 0:04:41.141 there's no way you do. 0:04:41.662 --> 0:04:43.742 I always like it. I'm like, that's nice to look at. 0:04:43.741 --> 0:04:46.382 I appreciate the effort you've gone to before you go 0:04:46.462 --> 0:04:48.141 for your walk or your run. I don't go to 0:04:48.181 --> 0:04:51.061 the gym, so I don't when I'm in hotels. But 0:04:51.181 --> 0:04:53.222 the good thing about exercising at home, which I've done 0:04:53.262 --> 0:04:56.381 for almost thirty years now, is that you can wear 0:04:56.421 --> 0:05:00.021 your pajamas or your underpants, and I have regularly worn both. 0:05:00.301 --> 0:05:03.181 You are the self appointed fashion cross the sports brah. 0:05:03.541 --> 0:05:07.142 What do you think about this? Do you think that 0:05:07.262 --> 0:05:10.981 wearing a set makes you look like you're a bit 0:05:11.022 --> 0:05:12.301 out of touch, like you're a milleniel. 0:05:12.421 --> 0:05:14.181 I do think this is the problem, and it's why 0:05:14.181 --> 0:05:16.062 people don't want to go to the gym, because it's 0:05:16.101 --> 0:05:20.981 a whole other layer of choices and spending and decisions 0:05:21.022 --> 0:05:25.062 and insecurity that you don't need. I mean, you need 0:05:25.101 --> 0:05:27.382 to go and do your exercise and around a bit. 0:05:27.582 --> 0:05:29.621 No place. It has no place in my gym. It 0:05:29.702 --> 0:05:32.101 is a sacred space. You can wear a potato sack. 0:05:32.342 --> 0:05:34.301 You can if you want, and they're not going to 0:05:34.301 --> 0:05:37.061 be comfortable a gym. Yeah, me too, That's my trick. 0:05:37.061 --> 0:05:38.941 I pretend I'm invisible. I'm like one of those is 0:05:38.981 --> 0:05:41.022 it mere cats to stick the heads in the sand. Yes, No, 0:05:41.061 --> 0:05:42.101 that's somebody else's sticks. 0:05:43.782 --> 0:05:45.782 I'm an ostrich. Mere cats do the opposite. 0:05:45.861 --> 0:05:47.621 They pick up or a one mate, you know, if 0:05:47.662 --> 0:05:49.702 he spotted one, but it stays completely still because it 0:05:49.741 --> 0:05:50.541 thinks you can't see it. 0:05:50.582 --> 0:05:53.101 That's what I'm like at the gym. Not a one 0:05:53.142 --> 0:05:55.701 bat does. The way it kills predators is that it 0:05:55.782 --> 0:05:57.742 runs really fast away and then it stops suddenly, and 0:05:57.821 --> 0:06:01.541 it's got such a sharp tailbone that the predator runs 0:06:01.541 --> 0:06:03.901 into its tailbone and is immediately killed. 0:06:03.981 --> 0:06:08.421 There's something very relatable about that meat. 0:06:08.702 --> 0:06:12.541 Ev is hot. She is slim with womanly curves. She 0:06:12.582 --> 0:06:15.941 looks really good in a low cut, milk made dress. 0:06:16.022 --> 0:06:17.741 I bet she'd wear tight clothes to the gym. 0:06:18.902 --> 0:06:21.421 She is married and her favorite thing about her husband 0:06:21.462 --> 0:06:24.222 is that he is obsessed with her. She likes skin care, 0:06:24.222 --> 0:06:28.101 makeup and manicures, gossip about pete millennial celebrities like Justin Bieber, 0:06:28.342 --> 0:06:31.261 and she's just stopped taking the pill. She works, but 0:06:31.342 --> 0:06:34.541 not too hard because the soft life beckons. She knows 0:06:34.541 --> 0:06:36.061 being a mum is better than being a boss. And 0:06:36.101 --> 0:06:38.262 she really doesn't like that new snow White movie even 0:06:38.301 --> 0:06:39.301 though she hasn't seen. 0:06:39.142 --> 0:06:44.181 It, because he too woke. Yes, definitely too woke. Evie 0:06:44.262 --> 0:06:45.301 is not a person. 0:06:45.621 --> 0:06:48.261 Evie is actually a magazine and a media brand that 0:06:48.421 --> 0:06:51.861 calls itself the conservative Cosmo or other people have labeled 0:06:51.861 --> 0:06:56.101 it that, and it's a celebration of femininity over feminism 0:06:56.462 --> 0:07:00.741 and over in the US. She actually Evie Magazine represents 0:07:00.741 --> 0:07:03.462 something a lot bigger, a sort of pushback that you're 0:07:03.462 --> 0:07:05.941 seeing through the rise of trad wife content and all 0:07:05.981 --> 0:07:08.901 those kind of things about the models of womanhood that 0:07:08.941 --> 0:07:12.902 are trump for vading generation is done with. So I'll 0:07:12.902 --> 0:07:14.422 just give you a couple of quick tastes of the 0:07:14.502 --> 0:07:17.261 kind of things that Evi carries. So on the surface, 0:07:17.302 --> 0:07:19.141 if you followed their Instagram, a lot of the same 0:07:19.222 --> 0:07:21.781 kind of stories you'd see in media aimed at women anywhere, 0:07:21.941 --> 0:07:26.782 including bomamere, nail trends, whiteladus theories. But inside things are 0:07:26.821 --> 0:07:30.182 a little more ideological. Take for example, a beauty feature 0:07:30.182 --> 0:07:32.222 in our Beauty features are always the standard thing in 0:07:32.262 --> 0:07:35.542 women's bags, right. This one was written by Robin Riley, 0:07:35.542 --> 0:07:38.502 and it pushes back against body positivity and it celebrates 0:07:38.542 --> 0:07:41.622 natural beauty. Here's a little extract without being able to 0:07:41.702 --> 0:07:46.302 hold objectively beautiful women up and celebrate their excellence we 0:07:46.422 --> 0:07:47.342 lose touch. 0:07:47.142 --> 0:07:48.901 With our ability to create beauty in. 0:07:48.941 --> 0:07:53.102 Our own lives. The more obese, over sexualized, and unhealthy 0:07:53.142 --> 0:07:55.382 women we hold up, the uglier. 0:07:55.102 --> 0:07:59.622 The ordinary woman becomes. In response, interesting. 0:07:59.502 --> 0:08:01.422 Young women in the West have never been more confused 0:08:01.462 --> 0:08:03.342 about what it means to be beautiful. Too often they 0:08:03.342 --> 0:08:06.102 think letting themselves go and not taking care of themselves 0:08:06.182 --> 0:08:09.222 is just fine, because we have beauty at any size. 0:08:08.941 --> 0:08:10.302 Now, like Mey at the gym. 0:08:10.782 --> 0:08:13.781 No, they also have sex tips, but they are labeled 0:08:13.782 --> 0:08:16.582 for married women only. And here's a little bit about 0:08:16.582 --> 0:08:20.822 a piece by millennial rider Delphine Chu about rejecting feminism. 0:08:21.182 --> 0:08:23.381 We women are not made for the daily grind. While 0:08:23.422 --> 0:08:25.982 men have a twenty four hour testosterone cycle, we have 0:08:26.022 --> 0:08:28.142 a four week cycle. There's a lot of cycle talk 0:08:28.622 --> 0:08:31.261 in Evie, which I'm sure we'll get to Jesse. That 0:08:31.381 --> 0:08:34.822 impacts everything for our energy level, sweet quality food cravings. 0:08:34.902 --> 0:08:36.982 It took me my entire twenties to realize it was 0:08:37.022 --> 0:08:39.142 impossible for me to live, love. 0:08:39.342 --> 0:08:40.662 Or lead like a man. 0:08:41.622 --> 0:08:45.462 Evie's founders are deeply photogenic young married parents, Brittany and 0:08:45.502 --> 0:08:49.302 Gabrielle Hugo Boom, and they say that the conventional women's 0:08:49.302 --> 0:08:53.822 magazines are too feminist, two ideological, and too antique feminine. 0:08:54.182 --> 0:08:54.742 Mia. 0:08:54.862 --> 0:08:59.102 You were one of the absolute forefront leaders of women's 0:08:59.102 --> 0:09:01.822 magazines in Australia when they were a big thing. Did 0:09:01.902 --> 0:09:05.542 you think they were inherently political when you were editing. 0:09:06.182 --> 0:09:11.822 Yeah, women's magazines. Well, some women's magazine were. Cleo and 0:09:11.982 --> 0:09:17.742 Cosmo were very transgressive when they first started, because when 0:09:17.822 --> 0:09:19.942 you go back to those times in the seventies and 0:09:19.982 --> 0:09:22.302 the eighties and the nineties when they were probably at 0:09:22.302 --> 0:09:25.662 their peak, there was no other women's media and there 0:09:25.742 --> 0:09:28.142 was no Internet. So if you were interested in anything 0:09:28.262 --> 0:09:32.062 through a female lens, anything about a woman's life. So 0:09:32.182 --> 0:09:34.702 it's a furfe to say that women's magazines were just 0:09:34.702 --> 0:09:37.702 about beauty tips and sex tips. They weren't. They were 0:09:37.702 --> 0:09:42.662 also about career and relationship and sexual health, and health 0:09:42.662 --> 0:09:46.622 and contraception and breast cancer and stories about domestic violence 0:09:46.622 --> 0:09:49.022 and eating disorders, so anything to do with being a 0:09:49.062 --> 0:09:51.742 woman or a girl. If you wanted to know about it, 0:09:51.782 --> 0:09:54.302 the mainstream media didn't cover it, so you could only 0:09:54.342 --> 0:09:59.342 find that information in women's magazines and girls magazines. As 0:09:59.382 --> 0:10:03.062 time went on, and certainly after the Internet came along, 0:10:03.462 --> 0:10:08.062 they became a little less relevant because they stopped reflecting 0:10:08.262 --> 0:10:12.462 perhaps the world as it was. But when I had 0:10:12.462 --> 0:10:15.742 a look at ev when you look at the covers, 0:10:15.782 --> 0:10:17.822 ev actually is a print magazine that comes out once 0:10:17.822 --> 0:10:20.262 a year, but it's a website and it mostly is 0:10:20.262 --> 0:10:23.102 a brand that lives online and social. For a bit 0:10:23.102 --> 0:10:25.862 of comparison, Cosmo in the US has about four million 0:10:26.342 --> 0:10:30.022 Instagram followers. Evie has a couple of one hundred thousand, 0:10:30.102 --> 0:10:33.982 but it's definitely growing, and I think what it reflects 0:10:34.222 --> 0:10:40.142 is this very Megan Markele Ballerine of Farm Nara Smith 0:10:40.582 --> 0:10:44.902 tradwife idea, and ironically, all of those women I mentioned 0:10:45.582 --> 0:10:50.381 work incredibly hard and have businesses that make it seem 0:10:50.422 --> 0:10:53.622 like they don't work, and that kind of fetishizes the 0:10:53.662 --> 0:10:58.382 idea of expansive leisure and being able to take homemaking 0:10:58.702 --> 0:11:03.822 to this elevated level and making bath salts and decorating 0:11:03.902 --> 0:11:07.862 cakes and you know, dressing nicely. And what's interesting about 0:11:07.862 --> 0:11:10.942 EV is that it also has a lot of sex tips. 0:11:10.982 --> 0:11:13.262 It has a disclaimer it's for married women only, because 0:11:13.262 --> 0:11:18.742 it's very obviously anti abortion, anti casual sex, anti contraception, 0:11:18.942 --> 0:11:21.342 you know, against all those things. So the subversive message 0:11:22.062 --> 0:11:25.142 is that this idea of traditional homemaking is the ideal 0:11:25.342 --> 0:11:26.222 state for women. 0:11:26.462 --> 0:11:30.822 And I suppose it reveals that there was an inherent 0:11:30.862 --> 0:11:35.462 politics within the women's magazine and that we took for 0:11:35.582 --> 0:11:38.022 granted that that politics was quite left leaning. 0:11:38.302 --> 0:11:41.422 I think in recent years, yes, like in the Internet era. 0:11:41.662 --> 0:11:45.782 Absolutely before that, I wouldn't argue that that was the case. 0:11:45.902 --> 0:11:48.102 Yeah, and I agree, But I think it's interesting we 0:11:48.142 --> 0:11:51.982 see everything very much through a polarized political lens. 0:11:52.022 --> 0:11:52.302 Now. 0:11:52.702 --> 0:11:56.622 I think ideology is a closer thing because the women's magazines, 0:11:56.742 --> 0:11:58.782 you know, the whole idea of them was like, you 0:11:58.822 --> 0:12:00.902 can be anything you want to be, you go girl, right, 0:12:01.102 --> 0:12:02.702 like in lots of different ways, not in. 0:12:02.662 --> 0:12:04.422 That literal language and choice feminism. 0:12:04.542 --> 0:12:07.942 Yeah, And this movement is about trying to appeal to 0:12:08.302 --> 0:12:12.422 the women who are turning back towards what they call 0:12:12.542 --> 0:12:14.022 more feminine. 0:12:13.502 --> 0:12:16.782 Value or have always been like that and have never 0:12:17.142 --> 0:12:22.302 felt reflected. So there are a certain portion of women, 0:12:22.422 --> 0:12:25.982 for example, who are pro life right and who have 0:12:26.102 --> 0:12:30.262 felt alienated by women's media. That broadly, if you're thinking 0:12:30.342 --> 0:12:33.942 you Jezebel, the cart Mum and me a like Cosmo Cleo, 0:12:34.582 --> 0:12:36.942 they are I mean, we've explicitly said it, but not 0:12:36.982 --> 0:12:41.102 necessarily explicitly saying it. They're pro chose right, or they 0:12:41.422 --> 0:12:45.662 talk about contraception very liberally, and so this to me 0:12:46.102 --> 0:12:49.222 is a it's a swing back, but clearly they've acknowledged 0:12:49.262 --> 0:12:52.022 that there's a gap, and as we've said before, this 0:12:52.102 --> 0:12:54.382 is now the status quo. So I think that's why 0:12:54.422 --> 0:12:56.942 this started in twenty nineteen, we're now in twenty twenty five, 0:12:57.382 --> 0:13:01.502 and clearly it's met its moment in a way that 0:13:01.622 --> 0:13:02.382 it may be kind of. 0:13:03.302 --> 0:13:06.102 Trying to, because what it is is it's marketing of 0:13:06.142 --> 0:13:09.462 a particular kind of idea of what a woman should be, 0:13:10.022 --> 0:13:12.702 and the idea of whether or not that's just reflecting 0:13:12.742 --> 0:13:15.702 something that's already there, or whether it's actually a political push. 0:13:15.742 --> 0:13:17.182 It's a political push. 0:13:16.982 --> 0:13:20.262 Of course it is, like because the truth of it 0:13:20.302 --> 0:13:22.262 is all the stats tell you that young women are 0:13:22.262 --> 0:13:24.302 actually more progressive than they've ever been, and that the 0:13:24.342 --> 0:13:27.022 gap between men and women when it comes to politics, 0:13:27.062 --> 0:13:30.022 the gender divide in political voting, particularly in America, is 0:13:30.142 --> 0:13:30.662 very start. 0:13:30.742 --> 0:13:32.742 But whether or not these are the majority, I'm not 0:13:32.742 --> 0:13:34.862 saying this. I'm saying they exist. 0:13:34.902 --> 0:13:36.942 They do exist. See I don't think this is the 0:13:36.982 --> 0:13:40.542 same as like make some jam. This is like reject feminism, 0:13:40.582 --> 0:13:44.662 stay home, submit to your husband. It's making conservative Christian 0:13:44.782 --> 0:13:45.502 values sexy. 0:13:45.622 --> 0:13:48.502 I reckon, I don't think so necessary. Well, it's sorry, 0:13:48.582 --> 0:13:51.862 I think it is. But what's interesting about it is 0:13:51.902 --> 0:13:56.141 that they're zeroing in on this kind of moderate, apolitical, 0:13:56.342 --> 0:14:00.022 exhausted woman who's really broken down by the lack of 0:14:00.022 --> 0:14:02.982 support for working mothers. And I think it's so interesting 0:14:03.022 --> 0:14:08.022 that they're positioning feminine as being the opposite of feminist, 0:14:08.742 --> 0:14:11.942 as if feminism and you know, we saw some wild 0:14:11.982 --> 0:14:14.462 things on their social media where it was like, I'm 0:14:14.502 --> 0:14:16.902 an ex feminist and I once went to this feminist 0:14:16.942 --> 0:14:19.382 meeting and everyone was naked and they were slapping people. 0:14:19.542 --> 0:14:21.782 That's what I mean that they have a very specific 0:14:21.862 --> 0:14:22.662 political agenction. 0:14:22.782 --> 0:14:26.142 It's very demonizing of feminism. But I also think that 0:14:26.142 --> 0:14:29.022 there's a huge number of women who were really disenfranchised 0:14:29.022 --> 0:14:32.702 with this idea that wanting to find a partner, wanting 0:14:32.742 --> 0:14:36.582 to be a mother, not wanting to hustle is somehow 0:14:36.702 --> 0:14:40.222 a betrayal of feminism, and I think that suggests that 0:14:41.222 --> 0:14:44.382 feminism has an image problem, and it always has in 0:14:44.422 --> 0:14:47.662 many ways. But the fact that they don't think that 0:14:47.782 --> 0:14:53.982 feminism includes them, and that feminism actively disparages them is 0:14:54.422 --> 0:14:55.142 a real shame. 0:14:55.302 --> 0:14:57.742 It's a shame, and it's also I see how they 0:14:57.742 --> 0:15:00.702 got there. Yeah, I would say that when I look 0:15:00.742 --> 0:15:03.622 at the last ten to fifteen years of feminism, what 0:15:03.702 --> 0:15:06.742 it left behind was motherhood. I really think it didn't 0:15:06.742 --> 0:15:11.342 do a good enough job at in interrogating and getting 0:15:11.342 --> 0:15:13.062 to the complexities of what it is to be a 0:15:13.102 --> 0:15:13.622 mother and how. 0:15:13.822 --> 0:15:17.862 Hang on difficult feminism or did society in terms of 0:15:17.902 --> 0:15:19.782 the structural subjecty. 0:15:19.342 --> 0:15:21.942 I don't think that feminism has been talking that much 0:15:22.102 --> 0:15:25.582 about motherhood. I think it moved on to a bunch 0:15:25.622 --> 0:15:30.342 of niche issues. And I think that for the women 0:15:30.582 --> 0:15:33.622 who did get married and have kids, which is still 0:15:33.742 --> 0:15:36.142 the status quo, let's not pretend it it isn't. I 0:15:36.142 --> 0:15:37.822 don't think feminism knows what to do with them. 0:15:38.062 --> 0:15:40.622 I don't think it's feminism. I think it's society. I 0:15:40.622 --> 0:15:43.102 think there is no question that the central thesis here, 0:15:43.142 --> 0:15:45.182 which is what you'll see in all a lot of 0:15:45.222 --> 0:15:48.302 these conservative influences things, which is a truth that feminists 0:15:48.342 --> 0:15:51.422 also talk about a lot, which is now we are 0:15:51.542 --> 0:15:54.462 expect women broadly are expected to do the lion's share 0:15:54.502 --> 0:15:57.022 of work at home and out in the world, and 0:15:57.062 --> 0:15:59.062 we haven't been given the support enough to do it. 0:15:59.342 --> 0:16:01.902 You'll find that most feminist causes, talking about things like 0:16:01.902 --> 0:16:05.382 affordable childcare and domestic equality are a massive part of feminism. 0:16:05.422 --> 0:16:07.342 I don't think it's true that they're not they don't 0:16:07.342 --> 0:16:10.022 talk about but I think that what this is doing 0:16:10.742 --> 0:16:13.742 is it's very much demonizing the idea that all feminists 0:16:13.782 --> 0:16:17.142 hate kids, all feminists hate being at home, all feminists 0:16:17.142 --> 0:16:19.262 don't want to get married, and none of that is true. 0:16:19.662 --> 0:16:22.622 But there's a very convenient conservative message, isn't it. 0:16:22.702 --> 0:16:22.822 Well. 0:16:22.862 --> 0:16:25.302 Even we were talking on Monday about Chapel Roone saying, 0:16:25.342 --> 0:16:28.622 I don't know a happy parent. I can see how 0:16:28.622 --> 0:16:30.342 a woman might get to a point where they look 0:16:30.382 --> 0:16:31.942 at it and go, I don't know a happy feminist. 0:16:32.302 --> 0:16:34.782 Feminists don't seem happy, they seem really tired. 0:16:34.902 --> 0:16:35.662 It depends what. 0:16:35.582 --> 0:16:38.822 You call a feminist. Most women I know are feminists. 0:16:38.862 --> 0:16:41.702 But are you just talking about women who talk online 0:16:41.702 --> 0:16:44.022 about feminism a lot and that they don't seem happy? 0:16:44.062 --> 0:16:46.622 Because do not think that maybe feminism has just become 0:16:46.662 --> 0:16:48.702 so mainstream now that it's kind of everybody. 0:16:48.862 --> 0:16:49.502 Do you know what I mean? 0:16:49.662 --> 0:16:52.142 I know what you're saying. Yeah, maybe I'm thinking about 0:16:52.222 --> 0:16:56.462 particular sort of pundits or particular figureheads of feminism, the 0:16:56.502 --> 0:16:59.942 most shouty one where Yeah, it got very shouty and 0:17:00.022 --> 0:17:03.142 alienating for I think a lot of women, and I 0:17:03.222 --> 0:17:05.302 just understand how they got there. And there was a 0:17:05.382 --> 0:17:08.982 line in White Lotus this week that I thought encapsulated this, 0:17:09.622 --> 0:17:12.102 which was the Mother from North Carolina and she meets 0:17:12.142 --> 0:17:14.621 a woman who's married to an older man, and she 0:17:14.742 --> 0:17:17.941 basically says to her. 0:17:17.101 --> 0:17:25.542 You're such a darling girl. You're young, you're beautiful. Why 0:17:25.581 --> 0:17:30.421 are you with this middle aged weirdo? Does he have 0:17:30.502 --> 0:17:35.141 a lot of money? You can't ask that. After the 0:17:35.182 --> 0:17:39.742 Carolina I have to introduce you to some respectable men. 0:17:40.061 --> 0:17:46.942 They would heat you up. I actually love Rupert. Are 0:17:46.942 --> 0:17:50.742 you scared of you? I could get you out of this. 0:17:52.621 --> 0:17:58.462 And there's this sense that we patronize conservative women thinking, 0:17:58.581 --> 0:18:00.741 oh my goodness, you're a tool of the patriarchy, you 0:18:00.821 --> 0:18:03.782 poor thing. You don't know, but you've been brainwashed and 0:18:03.782 --> 0:18:07.982 you're oppressed. And these women are going I am not brainwashed. 0:18:08.222 --> 0:18:11.022 I am not oppressed. This is what I believe. Now. 0:18:11.101 --> 0:18:14.982 I don't agree with the politics inherent in a lot 0:18:15.022 --> 0:18:16.782 of this, but what I will say is that when 0:18:16.782 --> 0:18:20.942 I went on the website, I felt my body physiologically 0:18:21.061 --> 0:18:24.821 exhale because I was like, Oh, my god, imagine living 0:18:24.861 --> 0:18:26.381 in an existence when we're not oppressed. 0:18:26.422 --> 0:18:28.341 They talk about a soft life, that. 0:18:28.302 --> 0:18:32.502 It was beautiful, there were no issues, there was no 0:18:32.621 --> 0:18:41.302 chattle like all of that stuff. It's likea So what 0:18:41.302 --> 0:18:45.022 they're selling has hooked you, because actually there is shitloads 0:18:45.022 --> 0:18:48.181 of ideological stuff on that. So, as I said in 0:18:48.182 --> 0:18:50.662 my intro, it laws you in with here's the nails 0:18:50.661 --> 0:18:52.982 and here's the bluff. But then it's talking about how 0:18:53.022 --> 0:18:56.701 contraception is evil, and it's talking about how wanting to earn. 0:18:56.581 --> 0:18:57.422 A living is evil. 0:18:57.462 --> 0:18:59.621 You've got The thing about this is it's not at 0:18:59.661 --> 0:19:02.261 all about for me, and I think you're falling, not 0:19:02.381 --> 0:19:04.942 you specifically, but the argument you're putting forward falls into 0:19:04.942 --> 0:19:06.742 a trap that women always have to be pitted against 0:19:06.821 --> 0:19:08.981 each other. This has got nothing to do with that. 0:19:09.061 --> 0:19:11.542 For me, I think that this is a dangerous and 0:19:11.821 --> 0:19:14.581 that's an overstated word, but an interesting thing to observe 0:19:14.621 --> 0:19:16.902 and watch right. The owner of it by the way, 0:19:16.982 --> 0:19:19.101 she like a lot of Trump world people. 0:19:19.141 --> 0:19:20.102 They say, or we love. 0:19:20.141 --> 0:19:23.181 How much this upsets liberals, She says, liberals hate this magazine. 0:19:23.222 --> 0:19:25.661 Why shouldn't there be a magazine for conservative women. I 0:19:25.702 --> 0:19:27.982 don't hate it at all, but I find it fascinating 0:19:28.462 --> 0:19:32.262 because it's a soft way to get in to a 0:19:32.302 --> 0:19:34.502 woman's mind and start whispering in her ear. And what 0:19:34.542 --> 0:19:37.782 they're whispering in your ear is don't work, don't make 0:19:37.821 --> 0:19:40.782 your own money, don't have bodily autonomy, don't make your 0:19:40.782 --> 0:19:41.422 own choices. 0:19:41.542 --> 0:19:43.821 I'm with you, and dress like a milkman. 0:19:43.381 --> 0:19:46.101 And exactly, And it's like and it looks sexy and 0:19:46.182 --> 0:19:49.901 beautiful and aspirational because everyone is gorgeous, just like on 0:19:49.982 --> 0:19:52.982 the traadwife thing. Everybody has an adoring husband who wants 0:19:53.022 --> 0:19:55.782 to have sex with them all the time. Everybody has 0:19:55.821 --> 0:19:58.741 these beautiful, well groomed children and these lovely homes. So 0:19:58.901 --> 0:20:01.702 it's doing exactly what women's magazines have always done, which 0:20:01.742 --> 0:20:05.302 is package aspiration and then law you in and then 0:20:05.341 --> 0:20:06.741 give you a lot of standards that are hard to 0:20:06.742 --> 0:20:09.222 live up to. Whether that's girl boss life or whether 0:20:09.262 --> 0:20:12.341 that's soft wife trad wife life, it's the same thing. 0:20:12.861 --> 0:20:13.542 I'm with you. 0:20:13.942 --> 0:20:19.302 But what this revealed to me was that left wing 0:20:19.621 --> 0:20:22.782 publications that might not brand themselves as that have been 0:20:22.821 --> 0:20:24.702 doing the same thing for ten years, that you can 0:20:24.702 --> 0:20:26.581 go and have a look at all their headlines and go, 0:20:26.581 --> 0:20:29.341 there's nothing here, and then you click on one you go, oh, 0:20:29.341 --> 0:20:32.302 that's a really radical idea. Whether or not I agree 0:20:32.341 --> 0:20:36.261 with it, I can see how if you weren't super 0:20:36.302 --> 0:20:40.101 progressive or super left wing, you would feel alienated by that, 0:20:40.341 --> 0:20:44.501 because there's an assumption that you just agree that women 0:20:44.782 --> 0:20:48.222 should be having rampant, casual sex and. 0:20:48.101 --> 0:20:49.662 That that's empowering for everyone. 0:20:49.861 --> 0:20:50.141