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Speaker 1: So much.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.

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Speaker 1: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and borders

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on from Mamma Mia. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the Spill your daily pop culture fix.

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Speaker 2: I'm Laura Brodney and I'm Casceni Lukitch and coming up

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Speaker 2: on the show today, all the biggest stars in the

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Speaker 2: world have converged on a very fancy fashion event, but

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Speaker 2: a lot of people are not sure what it is.

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Speaker 1: We've also had some wild celebrity interactions, some wild looks

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Speaker 1: on the runway, so we're going to get into that. Plus,

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Speaker 1: there's one big pr move that every famous woman in

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Speaker 1: Hollywood is making. It does involve legal proceedings, so we

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Speaker 1: don't recommend you try it at home, but we're going

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Speaker 1: to get into that. But first, a little bit of

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Speaker 1: fun news to the day. I know this makes me

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Speaker 1: a basic bitch because I think every man and woman

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Speaker 1: Astraya is also listening to these songs on repeat. But

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Speaker 1: there's one thing I'm obsessed with at the moment, and

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Speaker 1: it's Olivia Dean.

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Speaker 2: I absolutely adore her. Her song is such an earworm

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Speaker 2: that many such an earworm, It just occupies so much

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Speaker 2: of my brain space at the moment. Yeah, and it's

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Speaker 2: also like when you can see when something's crossed over

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Speaker 2: into like true kind of pop royalty, when it's the

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Speaker 2: backing song that everyone is using at the moment for

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Speaker 2: all of their like photo dumps on Instagram video.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. No, no, that's why it is a song because

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Speaker 1: as soon as you hear it, it like brings you to

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Speaker 1: a fun place. I've even started hearing it playing in

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Speaker 1: the shopping center and that's when I know that something

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Speaker 1: has truly crossed over to the mainstream. It's just come

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Speaker 1: out recently that Olivia Dean has made UK chart history

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Speaker 1: as the first woman ever with four songs in the

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Speaker 1: top ten. So that is a huge achievement that we

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Speaker 1: wanted to highlight.

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Speaker 2: So she's also debuted on Billboard's Top one hundred. In

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Speaker 2: the top ten, she got to number eight with Man

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Speaker 2: I Made, so that's also huge because as she's a

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Speaker 2: UK artist, crossing over into who the US is a

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Speaker 2: big deal. And also on the ARIA charts she's done

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Speaker 2: really well. And I also found out that she's actually

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Speaker 2: playing at the Arias this year.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I feel like that's going to be the

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Speaker 1: real big drawad card to kick that up because everyone

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Speaker 1: is trying to get Olivia Dean tickets, so when she tours,

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Speaker 1: everyone's trying to get access to her shows. And it

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Speaker 1: also comes off the back of the Art of Loving

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Speaker 1: her album sort of going up the charts, and she's

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Speaker 1: actually the first British solo female artist to claim like

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Speaker 1: these two different chart topping titles since Adele, so everyone's

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Speaker 1: now kind of calling her the next Adele.

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Speaker 3: She's only twenty six. She's born in nineteen ninety nine,

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Speaker 3: which is really wild to me.

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Speaker 2: So the Art of Loving this is her sophomore album,

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Speaker 2: so her second album, and then MESSI I Believe was.

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Speaker 3: Her first album.

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Speaker 2: She's kind of been on the scene since twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 2: I didn't really know about her.

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Speaker 3: Until this year. I'm not that cool. I know you

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Speaker 3: said that you had a sister who had vanced so

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Speaker 3: I this is so bad of me.

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Speaker 1: This happens to me a lot where I'll see someone

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Speaker 1: I remember going to like like a concert in Newcastle

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Speaker 1: like fifteen years ago and watching this performer, Lady Gaga,

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Speaker 1: beyond stage everyone was and everyone was like talking and

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Speaker 1: no one was paying, and no one was paying attention

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Speaker 1: to her. Yeah, and I was watching her being like,

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Speaker 1: I just feel like this girl is going to be

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Speaker 1: big and not that that like Olivia Dean when I

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Speaker 1: saw her the earlier this year, it was already a

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Speaker 1: big star, but I wasn't cool enough to know who

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Speaker 1: she is. I just feel like I'm so across TV,

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Speaker 1: I'm so across film, and I love music, but I'm

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Speaker 1: just not across who the cool people are. But I

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Speaker 1: remember my sister saying that she was going she had

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Speaker 1: bought tickets to a festival specifically to see Olivia Dean

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Speaker 1: earlier this year. And we're the exact same person, except

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Speaker 1: she's a doctor and I'm a podcaster. I just imagine

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Speaker 1: if I was your doctor with this energy. Okay, she's

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Speaker 1: saw across live music that she had a chapel her

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Speaker 1: own birthday party like five years ago. Oh yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of no, I'm not that cool either. And

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Speaker 1: I remember calling her after I had been to this

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Speaker 1: showcase that I got invited to where all these different

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Speaker 1: artists came out on stage and the last one was

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Speaker 1: a girl called Olivia Dean and I knew who she was, Like,

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Speaker 1: I'm not completely stupid. It was this year, but I

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Speaker 1: wasn't across sort of all of her songs, and she

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Speaker 1: came out and she was like so excited to be there,

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Speaker 1: and she's like, thank you all so much for coming,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, it's literally our pleasure, Like I

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Speaker 1: feel like people are trying to get tickets to you,

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Speaker 1: and just watching her thing was just like mesmerizing, Like

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Speaker 1: I did have that feeling that I was watching a

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Speaker 1: superstar who would soon be selling out arenas, having this

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Speaker 1: opportunity to watch her in a room with fifty people

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Speaker 1: and be just standing by the stage just watching her.

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Speaker 1: And then she was just walking through the crowd afterwards

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Speaker 1: and being really smiling and happy, and I remember trying

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Speaker 1: to think to myself, like, just remember this because in

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Speaker 1: a few years, this is going to be a story

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Speaker 1: that you tell.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's quite nice to see her sort of on

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Speaker 2: the precipice of really exploding, and we're seeing that with

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Speaker 2: all these records that she's breaking. You know, she's going

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Speaker 2: into the US market and to the Australian market, the

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Speaker 2: UK market, like she is about to go huge, and

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Speaker 2: it couldn't happen to a nicer person. She looks so sweet,

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Speaker 2: she's got the most beautiful little face.

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Speaker 3: I don't want that to sound patronizing.

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Speaker 2: She's just she's She's a gorgeous, lovely, warm energy to her.

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Speaker 1: And one of the reasons I wanted to bring this

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Speaker 1: up is that I feel like with music, it's a

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Speaker 1: very much thing like if you didn't know straight away,

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Speaker 1: then you shouldn't know. Like I feel like some people

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Speaker 1: can be like, oh, but she's on her second album,

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Speaker 1: Oh she's two Astralia before this kind of thing like

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Speaker 1: getting into her music now as she becomes a bigger celeb,

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Speaker 1: can sometimes see like you're coming to the party too late,

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Speaker 1: or that if you didn't like someone from the moment

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Speaker 1: that music came out, then you don't deserve to like

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Speaker 1: them now. And I think sometimes there's this weird ownership

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Speaker 1: over music. So I just want to say, if you

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Speaker 1: want of those people out there who has literally heard

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Speaker 1: her name today, it's okay if you like her music

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Speaker 1: and to be like discovering her so many years later.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I mean, we're not.

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Speaker 2: We don't have to be as pretentious as some certain

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Speaker 2: radio networks that you have a very particular vibe about them,

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Speaker 2: where you know you have.

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Speaker 3: To know about it.

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Speaker 1: But if you didn't know about them the moment that

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Speaker 1: first single came out that if there.

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Speaker 2: Were real music stops, I'm not a music stub I

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Speaker 2: will listen to We both love a bit of musical

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Speaker 2: theater or not.

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Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. So I feel like I spend so much

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Speaker 1: time listening to Broadway that sometimes I forget the young

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Speaker 1: and pop stars. But anyway, you were.

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Speaker 3: Too deep and wicked to worry about all of you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah exactly.

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Speaker 1: It's I've only come around just now.

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Speaker 2: So over the weekend, Vogue World had their Hollywood Fashion

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Speaker 2: show at Paramount Picture Studios in California. Now, this has

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Speaker 2: probably been all over your feeds. You've seen the footage,

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Speaker 2: you've seen the videos of you know, Miley Cyrus and

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Speaker 2: Haley Baber, and I know a lot of you are

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Speaker 2: asking what the hell it is, But let's just enjoy.

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Speaker 3: What the show is doing before we go into that.

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Speaker 2: Because the reason I love this so much, this particular show,

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Speaker 2: is because of how it blended Hollywood history with that fashion.

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Speaker 2: And it's one of my favorite things in the world

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Speaker 2: is seeing like old Hollywood costume pieces and seeing fashion

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Speaker 2: as art.

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Speaker 3: And I know that sounds a bit, you know, but

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Speaker 3: I love it.

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Speaker 2: It's just like a piece of little Hollywood history and

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Speaker 2: film history. So we had some really great moments and

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Speaker 2: it looked like probably one of the funnest fashion show

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Speaker 2: I've ever seen. And that is proof when you see

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Speaker 2: like people like Hailey Bieber and Miley Cyrus sitting together

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Speaker 2: and the entire show.

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Speaker 3: Hey Bieber, who is usually quite stoic when she's.

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Speaker 2: At a fashion show, she's got her fashion look on,

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Speaker 2: you know, or she's walking the runway. The whole show,

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Speaker 2: all of the clips of her, she's laughing, giggling, chatting

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Speaker 2: to Miley Cyrus. They're both wearing these like leather get ups,

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Speaker 2: and it was just so joyful to see her like

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Speaker 2: so happy.

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Speaker 1: It took me a second to realize that was Miley Cyrus.

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Speaker 1: When Hailey Bieber, she's the last one to be seen

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Speaker 1: in that front row, she comes along and then they

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Speaker 1: have that interaction, and it took me a second because

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Speaker 1: Miley Cyrus is in the full get up like face

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Speaker 1: covered gloves, to figure out who it was. Then they

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Speaker 1: said something to each other.

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Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I think Miley says to Hailey of all people,

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Speaker 2: which I think is probably said.

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Speaker 3: In like a jesting kind of way like, oh god, not.

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Speaker 1: You Are they friendly?

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Speaker 2: Do you know?

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Speaker 3: It looks like they're quite friendly.

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Speaker 2: They honestly, all of the clips of them, they are

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Speaker 2: chatting really animatedly and happily the entire time. And that

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Speaker 2: was something that was quite unique about this particular show

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Speaker 2: is that there were a lot of celebs that both

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Speaker 2: on and off the runway. So you know, Doja Cat

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Speaker 2: performed and this like Tina Turner inspired look. We had

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Speaker 2: Gracie Abrams perform as well, which was really sweet, and

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Speaker 2: Elizabeth Debicki was on the runway. We had Kendall Jenna

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Speaker 2: on the runway in this like Setine outfit. So there's

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Speaker 2: a huge amount of stars actually on the runway. But

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Speaker 2: then we're seeing like someone like Ada Wintur, you know,

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Speaker 2: the head of Vogue, also laughing and bopping to Dojah Cat.

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Speaker 3: Did you see her doing that?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, I mean the thing is Adam Winter is

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Speaker 1: like she is no one for being very stoic, but

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Speaker 1: when she is at an event and she's enjoying herself,

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Speaker 1: she also will like you see her laughing, like she's

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Speaker 1: got her celeb friends that she like engages with when

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Speaker 1: she sees something on the runway, like she'll have a

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Speaker 1: big reaction to it, like she's not always sitting there

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Speaker 1: with an angry face.

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Speaker 3: No, And I didn't mean it in like a way

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Speaker 3: that she's angry.

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Speaker 2: It was just that it was so nice to see

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Speaker 2: these people who are usually a little bit more stone,

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Speaker 2: just with massive smiles and just like so much joy.

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Speaker 2: When I saw the photos and videos of Hailey Bieber,

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Speaker 2: I was like, she just looked really happy, and I

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Speaker 2: was like, you look really lovely and happy, and it

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Speaker 2: just looked like.

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Speaker 3: So much fun.

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Speaker 2: The other moment that I really loved is Gwydeth Poutrow

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Speaker 2: was also there. Now, one of her more iconic characters

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Speaker 2: is the Royal ten and Bounds character Margo Tennenbaum.

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Speaker 3: Now, if you can't.

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Speaker 2: Bring that to you at the top of your mind,

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Speaker 2: it's Wes Anderson's very very famous movie.

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Speaker 3: Where she's wearing that sort of brown fur coat.

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Speaker 2: She's got this really severe blonde bob with a fringe,

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Speaker 2: and it's just like a pretty iconic character. Lots of

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Speaker 2: people use it. For Halloween. One of the models is

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Speaker 2: walking down in that outfit. Someone pans across to Gwyneth

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Speaker 2: Paltrow and she's pissing herself laughing. And again, it must

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Speaker 2: be so strange to see costume that you've been wearing

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Speaker 2: on film in front of you, like Nicole Kidman, you know,

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Speaker 2: seeing Setine, the Setine costume right in front of her.

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Speaker 2: It's just an It would be quite sort of an

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Speaker 2: odd experience, I think as a performer. Yeah, absolutely so,

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Speaker 2: this particular Vogue World Hollywood. They've done this for three

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Speaker 2: years now, but last year they did it at Plasmndome

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Speaker 2: in Paris, and then I think the first year was

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Speaker 2: in New York. So this particular one was called Vogue

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Speaker 2: World Hollywood, and I was celebrating the rich conversation between

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Speaker 2: film and fashion, centering on the most inspiring characters in

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Speaker 2: cinema history. And it was opened by bas Lehman and

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Speaker 2: Nicole Kidman, and you know bas Lehmon's they go, this

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Speaker 2: is't a normal fashion show. This is supposed to be

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Speaker 2: a good time, and it really looked like a great time.

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Speaker 2: We also had some great nods to different performers and

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Speaker 2: really really iconic characters on film and TV. One of

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Speaker 2: the really great ones was Hunting Schaefer in the original

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Speaker 2: Orlando costume. This Shakespeare's Orlando yeah, and you know, she's

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Speaker 2: really embodying this character walking down the runway. In this

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Speaker 2: original piece, we had Gwyneth Paltrow in one of Quentin

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Speaker 2: Tarantino's from Once upon a Time in Hollywood. We're Teana

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Speaker 2: Taylor in like the MC universe black panther outfits.

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Speaker 3: It was just a really fun time.

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Speaker 2: If you get a chance to watch the whole thing,

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Speaker 2: definitely head to the Vogue website and check it out

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Speaker 2: because it is really entertaining as far as a fashion

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Speaker 2: show goes.

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Speaker 3: It's very entertaining.

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Speaker 1: But yuess also it's like a fashion celebrity kind of spectacle.

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Speaker 1: I guess the end of the day, it's like a

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Speaker 1: marketing exercise for Vogue. It's so funny because I listened

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Speaker 1: to so many podcasts that cross over between fashion and

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Speaker 1: pop culture music, and so they're like hosted by fashion journalists,

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Speaker 1: and even then when they've been talking about Vogue World

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Speaker 1: this week, they're just like, what kind of is it?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: It's not for the public, I guess unless you watch it.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you can buy like a general

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Speaker 1: admission tickets or anything like that, or it is no. No,

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Speaker 1: Vogue wouldn't have any ref raff in there should they

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Speaker 1: That's fair enough. It's more just like I guess for

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Speaker 1: the celebrity spectacle and the costumes and all of that

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Speaker 1: sort of stuff, But I guess it's just kind of

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Speaker 1: like it's just the Vogue brand. Like it's so funny,

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Speaker 1: how like, no matter what happens in the world or

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Speaker 1: no matter what they stand for, like every celebritios sees

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Speaker 1: Vogue as like the pinnacle of what they want to

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Speaker 1: still like be involved with, which is so interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, they obviously had quite a few

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Speaker 2: big sponsors there. I think like eBay was a sponsor.

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Speaker 2: Cynthia Rivo was there with eBay. They had like the

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Speaker 2: US Chase Bank was a big sponsor, And obviously these

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Speaker 2: brands want to be associated with Vogue. It's like the

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Speaker 2: Vogue Fashion Night Out that we have here, which is

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Speaker 2: a shopping brand.

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Speaker 3: Obviously it's not shopping.

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Speaker 2: Necessarily, but you're right, it's just a marketing exercise. But

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Speaker 2: for someone who really likes the history of fashion, I

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Speaker 2: found it really interesting because I do think fashion as

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Speaker 2: a general rule is such a moment in timearticularly Hollywood films,

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Speaker 2: where there's so many iconic clothes and pieces that really

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Speaker 2: make cinema.

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Speaker 3: It gave me a bit of a kick to see

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Speaker 3: it all on a runway like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, Well, speaking of Vogue World, there was one other

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Speaker 2: part of that whole spectacle that has got people talking

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Speaker 2: and that we purposely didn't yes yes, because there's a

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Speaker 2: whole bigger story there. So it was Nicole Kidman sasheting

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Speaker 2: down the runway in looking like an absolute bombshell, seriously,

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Speaker 2: like very old kind of Hollywood, with the big hair,

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Speaker 2: the strapless black gown, and that's the photo that's going

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Speaker 2: viral for many reasons, and a lot of that is

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Speaker 2: linked to not just the fact that she looked gorgeous,

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Speaker 2: not just the fact that she was there with Basloman,

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Speaker 2: who was a very long term collaborator with her. Did

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Speaker 2: mul and Rouge together, Australia together.

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Speaker 1: All of these kind of like iconic roles, and they've

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Speaker 1: been long term friends for a long time, so those

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Speaker 1: pictures were around, but it was really the photos of

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Speaker 1: Nicole sasheing down the runway. You can see she gets

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Speaker 1: this huge reaction from the audience and people are calling

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Speaker 1: the dress that she's wearing her revenge dress, her revenge

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Speaker 1: against Keith Irban after their divorce.

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Speaker 2: And I also just wanted to point out in something

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Speaker 2: that I did notice is remember how a few weeks

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Speaker 2: ago we were talking about her bangs and everyone was like,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, she's cut bangs.

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Speaker 3: It's her divorce bags.

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Speaker 2: I was like, it was clearly just a piece, like

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Speaker 2: we say, because she did have them exactly.

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Speaker 1: And I just feel like, I wonder how long this

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Speaker 1: is going to go on for We've had a few

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Speaker 1: more monthsters because everyone's like, oh my god, look at

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Speaker 1: her revenge bangs and now it's her revenge dress. And

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Speaker 1: I was like, yes, the woman has I guess, more

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Speaker 1: reason ever to look hot. But she's always been a hot,

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Speaker 1: glamorous person, and I don't know if it's completely.

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Speaker 2: That absolutely, and she's always really been able to inhabit

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Speaker 2: that old Hollywood glamour. I mean, if you look at

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Speaker 2: the opening scene of Setene in Molan Rouge, it really

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Speaker 2: was a mirror of that because obviously Basloman is the

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Speaker 2: one letting her walk down the and she's kind of

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Speaker 2: in that more grace Kelly vibe old Hollywood nineteen fifties

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Speaker 2: rather than the Mulan Rouge. But it's that same she

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Speaker 2: gets picked up by a man on each side. She's

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Speaker 2: kind of sasheg she's got that beautiful big hair and

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Speaker 2: it is very baz the way that she's directed as

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Speaker 2: the opening of this show. But she's so good at

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Speaker 2: that vibe and she's singing.

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Speaker 3: I don't think she's singing live.

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Speaker 1: No, no, I don't know about that. But yeah, everyone's

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Speaker 1: sort of like because it's this black off the shoulder

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Speaker 1: dress that she's wearing, it's been really a likened to

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Speaker 1: the very iconic Princess Diana Rovenge dress where just after

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Speaker 1: her divorce from Prince Charles had been finalized and everyone

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Speaker 1: knew that he was like had been seen Camilla Parker

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Speaker 1: bowls for such a long time, and there was this

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Speaker 1: whole idea of like, they're not gonna wait, they're gonna

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Speaker 1: get together straight away. And she's this sjilted woman and

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Speaker 1: then she gets out of the car in this strapless

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Speaker 1: black gown just looking like a million bucks. And even

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Speaker 1: though the dress is like in no way scandalous, I

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Speaker 1: guess it maybe was then so many decades ago, Like

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Speaker 1: now with everyone wearing like a sheer dress, you're like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, I can't even see her boobs, Like,

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Speaker 1: it's not even that exciting.

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Speaker 2: I think in terms of like royal protocol back in

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Speaker 2: the eight you know, when they broke.

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Speaker 1: The time, it was like it was like she had

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Speaker 1: walked out in a naked dress, and so everyone's kind

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Speaker 1: of liking that to Nicole Kimman, and it kind of

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Speaker 1: got me thinking around how the best pr move a

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Speaker 1: woman can make in Hollywood at the moment is to

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Speaker 1: go through a divorce, but it has to go through

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Speaker 1: the divorce steps leading up to and afterwards have to

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Speaker 1: be very specific for the world to completely side with

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Speaker 1: her and for her to have a reinvention.

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Speaker 2: We definitely talked about this a little bit on yesterday's

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Speaker 2: show with Katie Perry. We were talking about how it's

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Speaker 2: kind of interesting how her career at the start of

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Speaker 2: the year was on shaky ground after you know, the

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Speaker 2: SpaceX launch and the backlash from her tour and her album.

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Speaker 2: But now with Justin Trudeau, we all just like love

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Speaker 2: her and it's like she's kind of had this makeover

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Speaker 2: and it really isn't in to sting phenomenon.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because there was a time where sort of going

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Speaker 1: through heartbreaking divorce would either paint you in two camps.

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Speaker 1: And unfortunately, it's almost like it's that whole classic Jennifer

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Speaker 1: and synthing going back that long of like that whole

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Speaker 1: kind of like poor her, like she's the victim, or

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Speaker 1: that you'd be kind of like jilted and seen as, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: why can't she can Almost like Kim Kardashiin has been

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Speaker 1: very villainized every time she's had a divorce, even to

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Speaker 1: an extent, Jennifer Lopez, these women who were sort of

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Speaker 1: seen to not take marriage seriously, and it's like this

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Speaker 1: idea that their careers will dip a little bit after divorce,

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Speaker 1: but now we're sort of seeing it go the other

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Speaker 1: way that if you kind of play it correctly in

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Speaker 1: the public space, it will bring you this whole extra

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Speaker 1: fandom and like layer of protection. And Katie Perry was

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Speaker 1: the one who was kind of tiltering on the precipice

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Speaker 1: of that that she could have gone to the villain

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Speaker 1: or she could have gone to the victim, but because

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Speaker 1: she sort of just stepped away from the scandal, started

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Speaker 1: doing these performances that people loved, and then hooked up

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Speaker 1: with this person that Justin Trudeau, who the world deemed

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Speaker 1: like a very enviable hookup. Now people are on her side. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And it's interesting with Nicole Kidman that with the breakup

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Speaker 1: with her and Keith Urban, when those first stories first

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Speaker 1: came out, it came out that she was a workaholic

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Speaker 1: and she hadn't put time into their marriage and all

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Speaker 1: these things, so she could have been villainized, but instead

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Speaker 1: she's now seen as this like champion of women.

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Speaker 3: I think it's.

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Speaker 2: Actually quite a nice cultural shift in media because if

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Speaker 2: you think about the way that older woman and I'm

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Speaker 2: not saying that Katie Perry is old, I am saying

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Speaker 2: she's an older woman, and even Nicole Kidman, who's a

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Speaker 2: little bit older, she's got teenage kids. Thirty forty years ago,

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Speaker 2: women in that point in life, if they were left

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Speaker 2: quote unquote left by their husband, it is this, Okay,

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Speaker 2: she's a used up woman, she's got kids, she doesn't

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Speaker 2: have any value. It's quite nice to see it shifted

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Speaker 2: in another way and seeing these women have this kind

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Speaker 2: of renaissance of sexuality, sensuality, romance, love, Like it's really

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Speaker 2: lovely to see that from women in this kind of

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Speaker 2: second part of their life. I don't want to say,

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Speaker 2: like I don't want it to sound like I'm say.

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Speaker 3: These women are going out to Passta. That is not

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Speaker 3: what I mean.

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Speaker 2: What I mean is the way that the media typically

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Speaker 2: would have reported on this twenty years ago, particularly like

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Speaker 2: the two thousands, would have been quite negative because that's

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Speaker 2: the way women were perceived. I mean, all you have

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Speaker 2: to do is look at the way that women in

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Speaker 2: the eighties were shown on television, like the Golden Girls

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Speaker 2: were in their fifties and they all looked like they

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Speaker 2: were eighty years old because of the way women were portrayed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And another example that we're seeing recently is

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Speaker 1: with Jessica Albert. Now, just yea. Alber is someone that

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Speaker 1: has I mean, for me personally, always been like a

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Speaker 1: huge deal ever since I watched her in Dark Angels

431
00:20:02,104 --> 00:20:04,424
Speaker 1: All that Honey. For I was yeah, and that movie too,

432
00:20:04,504 --> 00:20:07,104
Speaker 1: Dark Angels, The Teenager Honey. But she sort of stepped

433
00:20:07,144 --> 00:20:09,224
Speaker 1: away from being a movie star. And she was really

434
00:20:09,264 --> 00:20:11,264
Speaker 1: honest about the fact that she stepped away from being

435
00:20:11,264 --> 00:20:12,984
Speaker 1: a movie step not only because she found out the

436
00:20:13,024 --> 00:20:15,704
Speaker 1: Honest Company, which is worth over a billion dollars now,

437
00:20:15,744 --> 00:20:18,424
Speaker 1: but she said she was just so fatigued by Hollywood

438
00:20:18,464 --> 00:20:21,184
Speaker 1: because I think it was on the Fantastic Four movies

439
00:20:21,264 --> 00:20:23,584
Speaker 1: and she was trying to cry on camera because her

440
00:20:23,664 --> 00:20:26,544
Speaker 1: character was going through something truly horrific, and she had

441
00:20:26,544 --> 00:20:28,704
Speaker 1: a director come over to her and say, could you

442
00:20:28,784 --> 00:20:30,904
Speaker 1: just like stop crying because you don't look very pretty?

443
00:20:30,904 --> 00:20:32,904
Speaker 1: Could you kind of cry prettier and don't have any

444
00:20:32,944 --> 00:20:36,064
Speaker 1: tears and we'll add the tears via CGI later. So

445
00:20:36,224 --> 00:20:38,704
Speaker 1: she kind of stepped away from the spotlight for many years.

446
00:20:38,984 --> 00:20:41,344
Speaker 1: And there's so many people that I've never heard mentioned

447
00:20:41,424 --> 00:20:43,864
Speaker 1: Jessica Alba. There's so many people I've never like outlets

448
00:20:43,904 --> 00:20:46,424
Speaker 1: that would never cover her now and then in the

449
00:20:46,464 --> 00:20:48,944
Speaker 1: last few months she's become sort of like a fixture

450
00:20:48,944 --> 00:20:52,144
Speaker 1: in headlines, a fixture and comments and commentary, and it's

451
00:20:52,184 --> 00:20:54,984
Speaker 1: like she's got this whole renewed fan base and it's

452
00:20:55,024 --> 00:20:59,104
Speaker 1: because of her divorce. So she yeah from Cashmarria. So

453
00:20:59,144 --> 00:21:01,384
Speaker 1: they were married for seventeen years because she was like,

454
00:21:01,424 --> 00:21:05,224
Speaker 1: I'm leaving Hollywood. I hate this industry. And she married

455
00:21:05,224 --> 00:21:08,184
Speaker 1: this guy who wasn't a big celeb after being engaged

456
00:21:08,304 --> 00:21:10,304
Speaker 1: like co stars, like she was engaged to Michael Webb

457
00:21:10,544 --> 00:21:13,384
Speaker 1: from when they were on Dark Angel together and they

458
00:21:13,384 --> 00:21:15,024
Speaker 1: had these three kids, and it was meant to be

459
00:21:15,064 --> 00:21:18,344
Speaker 1: this kind of like Hollywood marriage that had saved her

460
00:21:18,344 --> 00:21:21,584
Speaker 1: and people saw him as this good guy. When they divorced,

461
00:21:21,624 --> 00:21:24,544
Speaker 1: he started like being photographed with a younger woman straight away,

462
00:21:24,584 --> 00:21:26,384
Speaker 1: and it's almost like she was going to fall into

463
00:21:26,384 --> 00:21:30,104
Speaker 1: that victim space. And then the next thing, she's at

464
00:21:30,104 --> 00:21:32,784
Speaker 1: an events looking gorgeous. People are talking about her business

465
00:21:32,864 --> 00:21:34,904
Speaker 1: and how smart she is, and I do sort of

466
00:21:34,904 --> 00:21:37,104
Speaker 1: hate that it has to be except for Nicole Kimment,

467
00:21:37,224 --> 00:21:40,264
Speaker 1: it kind of is like you, it has to be like, yeah,

468
00:21:40,344 --> 00:21:42,744
Speaker 1: you have to have a comeback relationship in order to

469
00:21:43,144 --> 00:21:46,464
Speaker 1: for the pr divorce to really work for you. But

470
00:21:46,744 --> 00:21:50,424
Speaker 1: once she started dating Daddy Ramirez, that sort of kicked

471
00:21:50,464 --> 00:21:50,984
Speaker 1: things off.

472
00:21:51,064 --> 00:21:53,504
Speaker 2: And because he was younger, it was like again a

473
00:21:53,544 --> 00:21:56,144
Speaker 2: woman taking back her power and being like being a

474
00:21:56,184 --> 00:21:56,584
Speaker 2: bit of a.

475
00:21:56,624 --> 00:21:59,304
Speaker 3: Quote unquote cougar with this younger man.

476
00:21:59,424 --> 00:22:02,584
Speaker 2: He's gorgeous, and you know, she's sharing all these photos

477
00:22:02,584 --> 00:22:05,424
Speaker 2: of her in Byron Bay. She's shooting a movie here,

478
00:22:06,344 --> 00:22:10,264
Speaker 2: and you know, she looks amazing. People are just absolutely

479
00:22:11,104 --> 00:22:14,864
Speaker 2: loving to see her happy. It is really interesting.

480
00:22:15,264 --> 00:22:17,224
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they've only this is the first time that

481
00:22:17,264 --> 00:22:19,464
Speaker 1: I've seen that she's just this week that she's shared

482
00:22:19,504 --> 00:22:21,504
Speaker 1: some photos of her on her Instagram. So she is

483
00:22:21,504 --> 00:22:23,904
Speaker 1: in Bayron Bay. She's doing all the Byron based sites,

484
00:22:23,944 --> 00:22:28,664
Speaker 1: you know, she's at the specific beach lookouts and rest. Yeah, exactly.

485
00:22:28,704 --> 00:22:30,424
Speaker 1: And it's mostly photos of her, but there is a

486
00:22:30,464 --> 00:22:32,864
Speaker 1: photo of her and Danny walking back to back and

487
00:22:32,904 --> 00:22:37,064
Speaker 1: that is kind of their relationship announcement. So she's forty four,

488
00:22:37,144 --> 00:22:38,904
Speaker 1: he's thirty three. I think a lot of people would

489
00:22:38,944 --> 00:22:41,384
Speaker 1: know him. He's part of the Marvel Cinematic universe. So

490
00:22:41,424 --> 00:22:43,824
Speaker 1: he was in The Falcon, The Winter Soldier, and most

491
00:22:43,864 --> 00:22:47,704
Speaker 1: recently in the Newest Captain America movie. And it's almost

492
00:22:47,744 --> 00:22:50,464
Speaker 1: like now she has this whole renewed fandom and people

493
00:22:50,464 --> 00:22:53,624
Speaker 1: have kind of decreed that she's won the divorce because

494
00:22:53,984 --> 00:22:56,144
Speaker 1: she's one with a huge company. She's the one who's

495
00:22:56,144 --> 00:22:58,904
Speaker 1: now like back in Hollywood filming thing. She's the one

496
00:22:58,944 --> 00:23:01,344
Speaker 1: who's hooking up with this hot young actor. And it's

497
00:23:01,424 --> 00:23:03,664
Speaker 1: kind of interesting how like all the pieces have to

498
00:23:03,864 --> 00:23:06,664
Speaker 1: align for you to have this like divorce comeback story.

499
00:23:06,784 --> 00:23:10,744
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's fascinating that renewed interest in these men

500
00:23:11,584 --> 00:23:15,944
Speaker 2: doesn't extend to Hugh Jackman. This is something that I

501
00:23:15,984 --> 00:23:18,784
Speaker 2: would love to pick your brain about. If we look

502
00:23:18,824 --> 00:23:22,904
Speaker 2: at Hugh Jackman and the way his public persona was

503
00:23:22,984 --> 00:23:26,224
Speaker 2: for a long time was everybody loves Hugh. He's with

504
00:23:26,304 --> 00:23:28,824
Speaker 2: Deborah Lee Fanaz, They're in this great marriage. I've got

505
00:23:28,864 --> 00:23:32,504
Speaker 2: adopted children. He's, you know, our great Aussie bloke. I

506
00:23:32,584 --> 00:23:35,384
Speaker 2: love Hugh Jackman. He's one of the celebrities who I've

507
00:23:35,424 --> 00:23:38,544
Speaker 2: interviewed multiple times who has always been incredibly kind.

508
00:23:38,544 --> 00:23:41,504
Speaker 3: I know we've spoken about him before, but.

509
00:23:41,504 --> 00:23:45,624
Speaker 2: I do feel as though when he and Deborah Leafaness

510
00:23:46,224 --> 00:23:50,424
Speaker 2: divorced and Sutton Foster, all the sudden Foster rumors came out,

511
00:23:50,464 --> 00:23:53,944
Speaker 2: and they've also made sort of a hard launch at

512
00:23:53,944 --> 00:23:54,984
Speaker 2: a premiere this week.

513
00:23:55,864 --> 00:23:57,024
Speaker 3: And it is.

514
00:23:56,944 --> 00:24:00,744
Speaker 2: Interesting though that I do feel like his particular persona

515
00:24:00,904 --> 00:24:03,144
Speaker 2: has dipped a little bit. There's been a bit more

516
00:24:03,224 --> 00:24:08,024
Speaker 2: negativity around Hugh Jackman, even though people do really like

517
00:24:08,424 --> 00:24:09,184
Speaker 2: Sutton Foster.

518
00:24:09,784 --> 00:24:12,424
Speaker 1: Yeah extent, I feel like there's always that moment after

519
00:24:12,504 --> 00:24:15,864
Speaker 1: the divorced announcement comes out where it could tip either way.

520
00:24:16,344 --> 00:24:18,664
Speaker 1: For mostly women, it tips in the negative and for

521
00:24:18,744 --> 00:24:21,464
Speaker 1: men as well. But I think with Hugh Jackman, there

522
00:24:21,544 --> 00:24:23,744
Speaker 1: was that moment where people thought that he had, and

523
00:24:23,984 --> 00:24:25,464
Speaker 1: this is the story that has kind of come out.

524
00:24:25,544 --> 00:24:27,504
Speaker 1: No one has said this is what's happened, but obviously

525
00:24:27,504 --> 00:24:30,744
Speaker 1: like he and Debraley were very good friends with Sutton

526
00:24:30,744 --> 00:24:32,744
Speaker 1: Foster and her husband, and the two couples would like

527
00:24:32,784 --> 00:24:35,824
Speaker 1: go on family holidays together. And then they say the

528
00:24:35,864 --> 00:24:37,824
Speaker 1: timeline is that they were all broken art people have

529
00:24:37,864 --> 00:24:40,104
Speaker 1: said that's not true, but there was this moment where

530
00:24:40,144 --> 00:24:42,584
Speaker 1: he was seen to cheat on his wife for many years.

531
00:24:42,904 --> 00:24:45,544
Speaker 1: But I think the way that Sutton and Hugh rolled

532
00:24:45,544 --> 00:24:49,344
Speaker 1: out their relationship completely erased that and brought them back

533
00:24:49,384 --> 00:24:51,664
Speaker 1: to be this golden couple, because they had those stage

534
00:24:51,704 --> 00:24:54,864
Speaker 1: paparazzi photos of them walking down the street, like looking

535
00:24:54,944 --> 00:24:57,104
Speaker 1: up into each other's eyes, and they're perfectly lit and

536
00:24:57,144 --> 00:24:59,384
Speaker 1: it just looks like these photos out of this beautiful

537
00:24:59,464 --> 00:25:02,064
Speaker 1: rom com. And now they've made their red carpet debut

538
00:25:02,104 --> 00:25:04,064
Speaker 1: together and they look so happy, and I feel like

539
00:25:04,104 --> 00:25:07,464
Speaker 1: the conversation has now circled back around where it's very

540
00:25:07,464 --> 00:25:09,584
Speaker 1: in favor of them. But I don't think Hugh Jackman

541
00:25:09,664 --> 00:25:11,944
Speaker 1: was ever in kind of any danger like men in

542
00:25:12,024 --> 00:25:13,224
Speaker 1: Hollywood dranger.

543
00:25:13,424 --> 00:25:16,184
Speaker 3: It wasn't danger. I just noticed there was just.

544
00:25:16,064 --> 00:25:20,624
Speaker 2: A little bit more negativity around the headlines, which we

545
00:25:20,704 --> 00:25:24,344
Speaker 2: didn't see before. Yeah, he was such a golden child,

546
00:25:24,384 --> 00:25:29,184
Speaker 2: particularly for Australiaans, but you know, Americans adore him. And

547
00:25:29,944 --> 00:25:33,944
Speaker 2: I just noticed a slight shift the tone kind of

548
00:25:33,984 --> 00:25:39,344
Speaker 2: shifted slightly in people's response to him because of those

549
00:25:39,384 --> 00:25:40,584
Speaker 2: allegations of cheaty.

550
00:25:40,744 --> 00:25:43,304
Speaker 1: Yeah. I can't think of a famous man who's been

551
00:25:43,384 --> 00:25:46,784
Speaker 1: in any way kind of hindered by any sort of

552
00:25:46,864 --> 00:25:49,624
Speaker 1: divorce or breakup. And they're the ones often that have

553
00:25:49,664 --> 00:25:52,264
Speaker 1: the most horrific allegations against them, Like just think of

554
00:25:52,304 --> 00:25:55,664
Speaker 1: all the stuff that came out and Brad Peach Jolie

555
00:25:55,704 --> 00:25:58,384
Speaker 1: and that hasn't touched him, even Johnny Depp to an extent,

556
00:25:58,464 --> 00:26:01,264
Speaker 1: like a little bit, but he's now back to filming movies.

557
00:26:01,304 --> 00:26:03,424
Speaker 1: He's now back to doing brand deals like that won't

558
00:26:03,464 --> 00:26:05,504
Speaker 1: touch him. Even this week, as we're saying, with the

559
00:26:05,824 --> 00:26:09,104
Speaker 1: Lily Allen and David Harbor divorce and all the allegations

560
00:26:09,104 --> 00:26:12,384
Speaker 1: that have come out through her album about him, and

561
00:26:12,984 --> 00:26:16,024
Speaker 1: once the Stranger Things Pressed Tor kicks off and once

562
00:26:16,104 --> 00:26:18,544
Speaker 1: the next press tour for his new Marvel movies kick off,

563
00:26:18,544 --> 00:26:21,184
Speaker 1: and he's sort of enveloped in that safety net with

564
00:26:21,224 --> 00:26:23,864
Speaker 1: all these big celebs who will speak up for him

565
00:26:23,944 --> 00:26:25,744
Speaker 1: and have him on their team, and he'll have that

566
00:26:25,824 --> 00:26:28,264
Speaker 1: layer of protection, Like those divorce stories aren't going to

567
00:26:28,344 --> 00:26:30,944
Speaker 1: touch him no matter who he dates. Like he that's

568
00:26:30,944 --> 00:26:33,024
Speaker 1: the thing, Like none of these men have had redemption

569
00:26:33,144 --> 00:26:36,304
Speaker 1: through relationships, but unfortunately, like the women have to have

570
00:26:36,704 --> 00:26:38,064
Speaker 1: those relations stories.

571
00:26:38,464 --> 00:26:41,224
Speaker 3: Yeah, so sere old your old classic.

572
00:26:41,744 --> 00:26:46,144
Speaker 1: Yeah it does. Potentially Nicole Kimmen might be the outlier

573
00:26:46,184 --> 00:26:49,544
Speaker 1: there that people won't be looking to her to have

574
00:26:49,584 --> 00:26:51,624
Speaker 1: a relationship. They'll be looking to how she looks on

575
00:26:51,664 --> 00:26:53,304
Speaker 1: a red carpet. They'll be looking to how she does

576
00:26:53,304 --> 00:26:56,304
Speaker 1: a viral press tour or how her next movie is received.

577
00:26:56,304 --> 00:27:00,304
Speaker 1: Like potentially she's the one that's risen above that. But yeah,

578
00:27:00,344 --> 00:27:02,104
Speaker 1: as much as it seemed like this brave new world,

579
00:27:02,104 --> 00:27:04,944
Speaker 1: it kind of is still in those old school parameters

580
00:27:04,944 --> 00:27:05,584
Speaker 1: of who you're with.

581
00:27:05,744 --> 00:27:09,304
Speaker 3: Let's just imagine that things are progressing and that we're

582
00:27:09,424 --> 00:27:11,304
Speaker 3: not big as negative from women.

583
00:27:11,384 --> 00:27:14,184
Speaker 2: But yes, you're right, it is often they do have

584
00:27:14,224 --> 00:27:15,544
Speaker 2: to be sort of tied up.

585
00:27:16,424 --> 00:27:19,864
Speaker 3: In a relationship. But I think if anyone can do

586
00:27:19,984 --> 00:27:23,064
Speaker 3: it's Nicole. Thank you so much for listening to the

587
00:27:23,104 --> 00:27:23,744
Speaker 3: Spill Today.

588
00:27:23,944 --> 00:27:25,664
Speaker 2: If you enjoyed this episode, the best way you can

589
00:27:25,664 --> 00:27:27,544
Speaker 2: support the show is to leave us a rating and

590
00:27:27,624 --> 00:27:30,664
Speaker 2: review on Apple Podcast. It only takes a minute and

591
00:27:30,744 --> 00:27:33,384
Speaker 2: it helps new listeners find us and help us keep

592
00:27:33,424 --> 00:27:36,384
Speaker 2: creating great content for you. You can get the big

593
00:27:36,544 --> 00:27:39,864
Speaker 2: entertainment headlines first thing tomorrow on The Spill Show Morning

594
00:27:39,904 --> 00:27:42,264
Speaker 2: Tea and that drops right here in your feed at

595
00:27:42,384 --> 00:27:45,464
Speaker 2: eight am. The Spill is produced by Minisha. It's Worn

596
00:27:45,504 --> 00:27:47,304
Speaker 2: with Sam. Production by Scott Stronach.

597
00:27:47,424 --> 00:27:53,664
Speaker 3: Bye Bye,