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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mother Mia podcast. Mama Miya acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded on Hi.

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Speaker 2: I'm Grace Ruey, the producer of No Filter, and I'm

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Speaker 2: jumping into your feed to bring you a very special

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Speaker 2: episode from our archives. You might have seen the brand

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Speaker 2: new TV series Dying for Sex. It's based on a

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Speaker 2: true story, a story of two best friends, Molly and Nicky.

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Speaker 2: After Molly is diagnosed with terminal cancer, she decides to

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Speaker 2: reclaim her sexuality before she dies. All of this with

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Speaker 2: her friend Nicki by her side, supporting her whilst on

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Speaker 2: their journey. The two made a hit podcast called Dying

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Speaker 2: for Sex and now it's a TV show.

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Speaker 1: But back in.

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Speaker 2: Twenty twenty, Mia Friedman sat down with the real Nicky

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Speaker 2: to talk about her incredible friendship with Molly, their wild adventures.

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Speaker 1: And the heartbreak of losing a friend.

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Speaker 2: We hope you enjoy this very special episode of No

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Speaker 2: Filter from our archives.

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Speaker 1: This is an episode about the epic friendship between two women,

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Speaker 1: one that transcends marriages and divorce and miscarriage and sex

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Speaker 1: so much sex, and ends in the most poignant, tragic

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Speaker 1: and beautiful way.

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Speaker 3: Hi, Hi, How are you, my love?

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Speaker 4: I'm so good?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, good, we talk to you.

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Speaker 4: It's so nice to see you. Okay, I don't have

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Speaker 4: to do anything. I'm not used to not being in charge.

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Speaker 4: I'm like, I just tell me about it.

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Speaker 1: It's a podcast host off. It starts when your best friend,

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Speaker 1: your person, gets a life changing diagnosis. She's forty one

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Speaker 1: and she's married, but instead of living out the life

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Speaker 1: that she's built, she decides to leave her fifteen year

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Speaker 1: marriage so she can go and have hot and sometimes

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Speaker 1: kinky sex with strangers, dozens and dozens of them. What

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Speaker 1: do you do? Do you judge her, encourage her? Do

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Speaker 1: you support her? Or do you distance yourself? Maybe you

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Speaker 1: help her pick up guys. Well, my guest today you

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Speaker 1: make a hit podcast with her. So his hand was

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Speaker 1: there and I was like, I know that.

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Speaker 4: Let it's going.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know where it's going, and you were okay

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Speaker 1: with it.

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Speaker 3: I was okay with it and like but I but

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Speaker 3: at one point I was like, I need to acknowledge

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Speaker 3: that I know that he knows that, I know that

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Speaker 3: we all know what's going on.

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Speaker 4: Could I go?

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Speaker 3: And I sounded like a prepubson boy. I was like, no,

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Speaker 3: I'm not expecting this, you know, like.

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Speaker 1: I don't want anymore from Mama Maya. I'm mea Friedman

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Speaker 1: and you're listening to No Filter, a weekly interview podcast

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Speaker 1: with people who tell their stories very candidly and who

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Speaker 1: aren't afraid to be all kinds of vulnerable. Today, I'm

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Speaker 1: speaking to someone who really is the epitome of candid

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Speaker 1: and vulnerable in our conversation. Her name is Nicky Boyer.

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Speaker 1: She's an actress, and she is the voice and the

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Speaker 1: host of the cult podcast Dying for Sex. It's a

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Speaker 1: six part series that follows the story of Molly, who

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Speaker 1: is Nicky's best friend, who was dealing with that age

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Speaker 1: old question what do you do with the time that

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Speaker 1: you have left? Nicki and Molly's friendship celebrates life from

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Speaker 1: Hilarious tex Stories.

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Speaker 4: Dates at six in the morning, dates at two in

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Speaker 4: the morning, dates at nine am, at noon, one at

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Speaker 4: six pm.

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Speaker 1: I mean, she's dealing with the loss of your person.

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Speaker 4: I miss her in ways that I didn't even think

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Speaker 4: were possible.

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Speaker 1: He is my beautiful conversation with Nicky Boyer. NICKI, how

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Speaker 1: did you and Molly mate?

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Speaker 4: Molly and I met? Oh gosh, twenty something years ago

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Speaker 4: in an acting class in Los Angeles, and we met

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Speaker 4: in a dirty little studio. I don't want to say dirty,

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Speaker 4: it was kind of dirty. It was dark, and you

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Speaker 4: know that smell that a theater has where it hasn't

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Speaker 4: probably really properly been cleaned in quite a long time,

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Speaker 4: but it's got that musty smell to it. And so

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Speaker 4: we met in a studio for an acting class that

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Speaker 4: was on Melrose Avenue, which is where everybody wanted to

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Speaker 4: go to acting class. So that's where we met, in

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Speaker 4: a studio, dark, dark way.

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Speaker 1: Wait where were you both that in your lives when

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Speaker 1: you met? And did you hit it off straight away

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Speaker 1: or was it like a slow burn friendship?

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Speaker 4: She hated me when she met me. She couldn't stand me.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: I thought she was sweet and kind and who's that

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Speaker 4: girl that she She looked at me like, who's that

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Speaker 4: girl seeking all the attention in the room, And I'm like,

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Speaker 4: of course that's me. I had just moved to La

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Speaker 4: of course. I literally parked my car, got here and

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Speaker 4: signed up for an acting class because I was such

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Speaker 4: an overzealous type a and Mollie had I think it'd

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Speaker 4: been here for maybe a year and decided to embark

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Speaker 4: on an acting class and see what that did for her.

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Speaker 4: And it was a slow burn. We you know, I

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Speaker 4: have to say, I have to thank the teacher that

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Speaker 4: paired us up in a scene. You know, scene study

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Speaker 4: and acting class that give you a scene and you

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Speaker 4: go work on it and you bring it back. And

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Speaker 4: if that woman, Heidi, wouldn't have paired Molly and myself

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Speaker 4: up in the scene, I don't know if I'd be

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Speaker 4: telling the story today because we wouldn't have naturally gravitated

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Speaker 4: to each other. Scene sort of forced us into working together, communicating.

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Speaker 4: And then I'll never forget the moment I realized that

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Speaker 4: we were kind of cut from the same cloth, as

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Speaker 4: we had a little inside joke going on, and it

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Speaker 4: went on and on to the point where it was

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Speaker 4: obnoxious and annoying, and I was like, oh, she's my people,

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Speaker 4: and so that's how it came about.

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Speaker 1: Did you both want to be actors?

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Speaker 4: Then? Yeah, we both did. She got over it very quickly.

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Speaker 4: I think after like the seventh or eighth class, she

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Speaker 4: was like, Okay, that's enough for me. I got bit

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Speaker 4: by the bug and I still to this day, I

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Speaker 4: still do acting.

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Speaker 1: How old were you both At the time, I.

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Speaker 4: Was twenty two and she was twenty three. I think,

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Speaker 4: so at the time I felt very well seasoned and

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Speaker 4: smart and ready. And I look back and I'm like

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Speaker 4: we were infants, Like our brains weren't even fully developed yet.

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Speaker 4: But we were. Yeah, we were in our very early

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Speaker 4: twenties and very wide eyed and ready for whatever.

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Speaker 1: And you know how when you made someone and there's

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Speaker 1: that platonic chemistry and there's banter, and you sort of

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Speaker 1: go in dates in terms of, you know, do you

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Speaker 1: want to grab a drink or do you want to

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Speaker 1: have dinner? How long did it take your friendship to

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Speaker 1: develop until you were kind of each other's person?

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Speaker 4: Ooh god, that's a great question. I would say not long.

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Speaker 4: So after we did that scene together and I got

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Speaker 4: to sort of see where she lived, and she saw

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Speaker 4: where I lived, she very quickly became a staple in

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Speaker 4: my life. I was working at the time. I was

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Speaker 4: waiting tables and trying to find you go to auditions,

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Speaker 4: and I was a very aggressive, like I got to

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Speaker 4: get things done. Mollie was a little more chill and relaxed, right,

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Speaker 4: So she had a lot of free time. So she'd

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Speaker 4: said let's have lunch. And we'd have lunch and she'd say, well,

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Speaker 4: then can I come to your audition with you? And

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Speaker 4: she'd ride in the car with me and we'd go

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Speaker 4: to the audition and she'd say, well, do you want

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Speaker 4: to have coffee after? And I'd be like, this is amazing.

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Speaker 4: I've got I've got like a partner with me in

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Speaker 4: my car all day that's willing to go run errands.

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Speaker 4: And she just wanted companionship and to be with me

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Speaker 4: and I had a lot going on, so she was

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Speaker 4: like this perfect fit. So very quickly became each other's

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Speaker 4: person and started to have a shorthand and an understanding.

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Speaker 4: And she was a digger. She'd asked questions and she

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Speaker 4: wanted to know you the dirty, the ugly, the messy

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Speaker 4: parts as well as the beautiful parts. And that's that

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Speaker 4: was really interesting for me as one of my first

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Speaker 4: friendships in Los Angeles.

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Speaker 1: Was she married then?

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Speaker 4: No, she was not. She was single. She was dating

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Speaker 4: a couple of dudes. I was dating a couple of dudes,

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Speaker 4: and I think I had just about met my ex husband.

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Speaker 4: So she's been with me during boyfriends, girlfriends, ex husbands,

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Speaker 4: new boyfriends, step kid, like we've been in it for

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Speaker 4: a while together. We had been. I still talk about

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Speaker 4: her like she's still here, you do.

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Speaker 1: It's so interesting, and I want to ask you about

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Speaker 1: that in a minute. But do you remember when she

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Speaker 1: called you after she'd banged the doctor, or do you

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Speaker 1: remember when she found the lump in her breast?

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Speaker 4: I do remember. It's funny you ask that because I

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Speaker 4: do remember because we shared the same obigyn and we

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Speaker 4: both thought he was kind of handsome, right, so that's weird.

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Speaker 4: I've never had like a hot obigyn. He ended up

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Speaker 4: being a real douchebag because she did feel something in

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Speaker 4: her breast, and at the time, she didn't even bring

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Speaker 4: it up to me. I think because she trusted him

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Speaker 4: so much that she thought, well, if he is saying

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Speaker 4: this is nothing and don't worry about it, you don't

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Speaker 4: need a mammogram. Then I think she thought, oh, okay,

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Speaker 4: I feel like I got good advice, and so she

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Speaker 4: never really brought it up to me or had a concern,

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Speaker 4: and then, you know, down the line, realizing that she

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Speaker 4: had had breast cancer, that's when we started talking about

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Speaker 4: it and hashing it out and discussing our bad experiences.

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Speaker 4: With this particular doctor and how he was really caught

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Speaker 4: up in sort of the Hollywood scene instead of being

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Speaker 4: caught up with the well being of his patients.

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Speaker 1: She writes about that in her book when she says

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Speaker 1: he was very dismissive when she said she had a

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Speaker 1: lump and said, you're too young to have breast cancer.

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Speaker 1: Don't be silly. How old was she?

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Speaker 4: I want to say she was, oh gosh, thirty two.

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Speaker 4: Thirty two at the time. I might be wrong sometimes

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Speaker 4: I get the dates a little much, but it was

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Speaker 4: around that early thirties time, and you know, we talked

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Speaker 4: about it a lot of why didn't she just trust

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Speaker 4: her own gut? Why didn't she go get a mammogram?

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Speaker 4: Why didn't she request a second opinion? But I think

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Speaker 4: you'll gather if you read her book and you understand

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Speaker 4: her she really trusted people that she felt like had

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Speaker 4: an authority in her life and had a sort of

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Speaker 4: kind of got lost in that dynamic sometimes and trusting

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Speaker 4: sort of the male in her life that's telling her

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Speaker 4: this is fine, this is okay. And I didn't really

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Speaker 4: fully grasp that until after I spent time with her book,

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Speaker 4: that she just struggled sometimes finding her voice is sticking

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Speaker 4: up for herself, especially when you're thirty two and your

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Speaker 4: doctor says, don't worry about it. I mean literally said,

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Speaker 4: you're too young for breast cancer. So every time I

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Speaker 4: tell the story, if you're out there and you're listening,

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Speaker 4: please please get a mammogram, even if you don't have any.

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Speaker 4: It's early detection is so important. I don't care how

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Speaker 4: old you are. Get a mammogram. Get it every year. Please.

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Speaker 1: And if you find something and your doctor says, oh,

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Speaker 1: don't worry about it, you can still ask for a

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Speaker 1: screening test. You can still say no, you know what.

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Speaker 1: Just to keep my mind at rest, I'd like to

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Speaker 1: get an ultrasounder. I'd like to get a mammogram. How

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Speaker 1: many years after that was she diagnosed and how did

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Speaker 1: it happen? You know?

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Speaker 4: So she was diagnosed a few years after that, and

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Speaker 4: it was I believe stage three at the time, so

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Speaker 4: it progressed very quickly within you know, some years. I

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Speaker 4: want to say it was twenty twelve.

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Speaker 1: Gosh.

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Speaker 4: So looking back when she called me and said, you know,

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Speaker 4: I have cancer, I just remember not it wasn't computing

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Speaker 4: in my brain, and I remember thinking, oh, my gosh,

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Speaker 4: she's going to have such a long road. But I

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Speaker 4: never once thought that she wouldn't beat it, and she did.

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Speaker 4: She had a double mistectomy, she lost all of her hair,

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Speaker 4: she went through chemo hormone treatments, the whole nine yards,

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Speaker 4: and I remember, remember she was very private about it.

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Speaker 4: Nobody knew she had breast cancer. They're a very select

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Speaker 4: amount of people, and so her husband at the time

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Speaker 4: was very much her caretaker and took her to her appointments.

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Speaker 4: And I don't remember being as involved in her diagnosis

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Speaker 4: as I was the second time. But it was really

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Speaker 4: hard to see someone that I just assumed would never

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Speaker 4: get sick or never be ill, or never lose her hair,

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Speaker 4: and to know that it was, you know, the trickle

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Speaker 4: down of what the doctor did was really hard for

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Speaker 4: me to wrap my brain around because I was part

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Speaker 4: of that dynamic. I was, you know, I was still

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Speaker 4: you know, a part of you know, going and I

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Speaker 4: had to tell all of my friends who were going

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Speaker 4: to this particular obgui n like please all of you

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Speaker 4: stop going, like this is not good.

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Speaker 1: So, yeah, did she get angry, Yeah.

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Speaker 4: She got very angry. In fact, we were trying to

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Speaker 4: plot things that we could do to this particular doctor,

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Speaker 4: like like really mature things, you know, like egg is home,

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Speaker 4: slid it, splash his tires, you know, things that grown

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Speaker 4: women do. But we did, we did share the story

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Speaker 4: with a lot of people, and he did lose a

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Speaker 4: lot of a lot of patients. But he's still practicing

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Speaker 4: and still featured on you know, housewives shows, and he

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Speaker 4: still looked at it as a doctor in Beverly Hills.

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Speaker 4: And honestly, it's just it kind of turns my stomach.

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Speaker 4: I hope, I mean, we're all human, we all make mistakes.

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Speaker 4: I hope he's learned from this, and I hope he's

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Speaker 4: saved some lives because he did not do that.

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Speaker 1: For Molly, how did her cancer impact her relationship with

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Speaker 1: her husband? What did she tell you about it during

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Speaker 1: that time?

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Speaker 4: I think it bonded them in the beginning, you know,

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Speaker 4: it glued them together because he was such a caregiver, caretaker.

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Speaker 4: He was really good at organizing, being in charge, facilitating appointments,

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Speaker 4: driving to appointments. They bonded very very much during that time.

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Speaker 4: I do think that it exacerbated sort of the problems

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Speaker 4: that they were also having, So I think it highlighted

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Speaker 4: the bad and the good within their relationship, but it

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Speaker 4: definitely bonded them and it tethered them together. That I

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Speaker 4: think is what made it so painful when Molly left,

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Speaker 4: because he felt such a bond and so did she.

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Speaker 4: But she was ready for that. She was ready for

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Speaker 4: that to be finished. I know, you know, I don't

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Speaker 4: want to paint him as anything other than just being

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Speaker 4: doing the best that he could. But it was she

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Speaker 4: could not discover who she was in the context of

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Speaker 4: that marriage, and so she got out. Eventually.

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Speaker 1: She had a double mistake to me and a breastreate construction.

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Speaker 1: Did she talk to you about how she was feeling

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Speaker 1: about her body and her new breasts and how it

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Speaker 1: impacted on her sort of sexuality?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Mollie never liked her boobs. She was always very

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Speaker 4: self conscious. She'd always say, show me your boobs. I

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Speaker 4: want to see what good boobs look like, and I

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Speaker 4: want boobs like yours.

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Speaker 1: Why didn't she like her babes?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they were let's be Mollie would love to know

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Speaker 4: that we were talking about her boobs. She would be

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Speaker 4: she would love this right now. She didn't like the

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Speaker 4: way they sat on her body. She didn't like they

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Speaker 4: were shaped. She thought they were too tiny and too small.

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Speaker 4: She was always very self conscious of them, and I

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Speaker 4: think she had a lot of self conscious issues with

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Speaker 4: her body, the same that I had at that age.

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Speaker 4: And I remember she would she would look at my

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Speaker 4: boobs and say, oh, my gosh, oh I want boobs

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Speaker 4: like that. So when it came down to her her

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Speaker 4: double mistectomy and then reconstruction, it was horrible on her body, painful, awful.

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Speaker 4: They have to stretch the skin. I think they were

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Speaker 4: Her breast reconstruction was one of the first where they

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Speaker 4: actually salvaged her nipples and kept her actual nipples intact.

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Speaker 4: So it was kind of an experimental surgery and it worked,

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Speaker 4: and her breasts looked amazing when they were finished. But

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Speaker 4: the price that she paid to get that, she she

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Speaker 4: always would joke about it like that. They lobbed off

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Speaker 4: every part of her that felt like a woman. Right.

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Speaker 4: They took away the cancer had taken away her ability

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Speaker 4: to have children, which you know, she wanted the choice.

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Speaker 4: I don't think she really wanted kids, but she wanted

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Speaker 4: to make that choice herself. Yeah, it took away her periods,

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Speaker 4: her hormones were all messed up, her limp nodes and

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Speaker 4: her breasts, and so I think when they were reconstructed,

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Speaker 4: she did feel a little like Humpty dumpty, right, Like

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Speaker 4: she felt like she was putting herself a little bit

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Speaker 4: back together and felt very confident in her body, more

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Speaker 4: so than I think she had ever felt pre cancer.

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Speaker 1: So how did she choose what size to go?

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Speaker 4: She wanted She wanted them to look like mine, which

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Speaker 4: is so funny.

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Speaker 1: So what sizes are you? Did you have to go

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Speaker 1: to appointments and say can you make something like this place?

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Speaker 4: I did. I went to one appointment and a good

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Speaker 4: friend and you know, it's funny that I don't have

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Speaker 4: large breasts. I just have very tiny, perky, normal breasts.

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Speaker 4: But you know, it's so funny. I've never talked about

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Speaker 4: my boobs more in my life. But she got a

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Speaker 4: bigger size in me. I was like, go a little

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Speaker 4: tiny bit bigger. She did not go. I mean, Molly

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Speaker 4: was a very tiny framed woman. So she went with

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Speaker 4: something that felt like it would suit her body. And

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Speaker 4: she was really proud of them because she was very

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Speaker 4: involved in it, like she was her own advocate. When

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Speaker 4: it came to medication, what they were putting in her body,

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Speaker 4: what the combinations of medications were, what the side effects were,

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Speaker 4: was the risk worth the reward? Like, she was very

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Speaker 4: tuned in and she was her own advocate, even when

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Speaker 4: it came down to her breast surgery.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, she took control of the uncontrollable.

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Speaker 4: Very that's a great way to put it. And it

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Speaker 4: was a reclaiming time for her. Like, it didn't just

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Speaker 4: start with the sex part. I think the reclaiming started

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Speaker 4: with being her own advocate and not letting a bunch

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Speaker 4: of not to make this gender specific, but not letting

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Speaker 4: a bunch of dudes in white coats sort of dictate

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Speaker 4: what was going to happen with her body. She was

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Speaker 4: ready to start making some choices on her own.

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Speaker 1: She'd had the reconstruction, she was going through some issues

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Speaker 1: in her marriage, they were having therapy together. What were

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Speaker 1: the signs that the cancer was back? What made her investigate?

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Speaker 4: So I remember this. I remember where she was living

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Speaker 4: and she called me. I even remember where I was

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Speaker 4: sitting that day. It's weird. It's like it was yesterday.

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Speaker 4: The sun was shining and I was sitting at my

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Speaker 4: desk and she called me and said, I'm leaving my

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Speaker 4: condo or my house. Right now, I'm gonna go work out,

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Speaker 4: but my hip is really bothering me, Like really, She

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Speaker 4: had hired a trainer, she was getting her strength back,

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Speaker 4: and I remember I didn't know it at the time,

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Speaker 4: but now looking back, I kind of remember feeling a

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Speaker 4: flicker of something like, oh no, but I thought, you know,

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Speaker 4: maybe it's just you overworked it. And she said, I'm

364
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Speaker 4: gonna go work out today. I'm gonna arrest it, but

365
00:18:06,445 --> 00:18:08,685
Speaker 4: I'm gonna go get it checked out, just to be safe.

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Speaker 4: And when she and got her tests done and her

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Speaker 4: screening's done, they found it was in her liver and

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Speaker 4: her brain, her lungs, I believe, in her bones, and

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Speaker 4: it was it was devastating because she thought she had

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Speaker 4: beat it, you know, she thought she had really put

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Speaker 4: it to rest. So it was back, and it was

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Speaker 4: back at stage four.

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Speaker 1: She got the call while she was in the middle

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Speaker 1: of a therapy session, and the story she tells about

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Speaker 1: it is tragically hilarious in terms of her husband's reaction

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Speaker 1: or her then husband's reaction.

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Speaker 4: Right, So yeah, I always feel bad regurgitating the story

378
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Speaker 4: a little bit because it's it's Mollie's story. To tell,

379
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Speaker 4: But now I'm her voice, right, like it's for me

380
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Speaker 4: to tell. But I don't know all sides of the story.

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Speaker 4: I know Mollie's side, and that's the story that I'm telling.

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Speaker 4: And if somebody else wants to tell their side of

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Speaker 4: the story, they can get a podcast and write a book, right,

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Speaker 4: That's what I say. But with Mollie, she was in therapy.

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Speaker 4: They were working on some commundication stuff and she got

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Speaker 4: the call. And I think she was waiting for that call.

387
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Speaker 4: I mean, could you imagine sitting and waiting for, you know,

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Speaker 4: that kind of result to come. So she was in

389
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Speaker 4: therapy and got the call that it was metastatic and

390
00:19:23,605 --> 00:19:27,125
Speaker 4: that there you know, she specifically said that means there's

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Speaker 4: no cure for this, and this is most likely what

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Speaker 4: I'm going to die from. And the doctor was very

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Speaker 4: honest with her, and she just crumbled and lost it

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Speaker 4: in the middle of her session and then sat back down.

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Speaker 4: And then, according to Molly, you know, her husband said,

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Speaker 4: can we can we back get can we get back

397
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Speaker 4: to the session? Can we get back to why I'm angry?

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Speaker 4: And I think in that moment she knew in her

399
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Speaker 4: brain and her body that she was she was ready

400
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Speaker 4: to leave this relationship, and she was creating her exit strategy.

401
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Speaker 1: From that moment on, you were in a pretty unique

402
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Speaker 1: position to understand what she was going through, right because

403
00:20:01,605 --> 00:20:05,245
Speaker 1: you'd lost your father and your brother had also faced cancer,

404
00:20:05,925 --> 00:20:10,285
Speaker 1: so you knew the ropes. Did that help in helping

405
00:20:10,285 --> 00:20:12,125
Speaker 1: her through what was to come?

406
00:20:13,365 --> 00:20:17,085
Speaker 4: In some ways? Yes, I was well versed at appointments

407
00:20:17,125 --> 00:20:21,885
Speaker 4: and uncomfortable conversations and talking about the elephant in the room,

408
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Speaker 4: and I was used to watching that process. Oddly enough,

409
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Speaker 4: I've watched a lot of people die, very weird, but

410
00:20:32,045 --> 00:20:35,165
Speaker 4: so it gave me a sort of I don't even

411
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Speaker 4: want to say confidence. That's a weird word, but a

412
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Speaker 4: like a lot of people are uncomfortable talking about death,

413
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Speaker 4: but I felt very comfortable and confident saying like, this

414
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Speaker 4: is a part of life and we need to address it.

415
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Speaker 4: So I had this odd sense of like, I don't

416
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Speaker 4: know ownership over like I know what this is like,

417
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Speaker 4: and I'm going to do this with you. I don't

418
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Speaker 4: know if that makes sense. I'm saying it out loud.

419
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Speaker 4: It makes sense in my head, but I may not

420
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Speaker 4: be articulating it right now.

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Speaker 1: It does, Okay, No, it definitely does, because all you

422
00:21:00,725 --> 00:21:04,005
Speaker 1: can do is bear witness, right, yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. And then in terms of you would think after

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Speaker 4: watching my father die and watching my brother go through

425
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Speaker 4: cancer and other family members pass from this, that I

426
00:21:14,765 --> 00:21:17,285
Speaker 4: would have a reality check, like knowing this is not

427
00:21:17,485 --> 00:21:20,965
Speaker 4: probably going to get better. But for some reason, with Molly,

428
00:21:21,125 --> 00:21:25,965
Speaker 4: I just thought somehow she would defy all of the

429
00:21:26,005 --> 00:21:30,245
Speaker 4: odds because I thought she was so special. So I thought, well, gosh,

430
00:21:30,805 --> 00:21:33,005
Speaker 4: she's got so much to give and she's finally figuring

431
00:21:33,045 --> 00:21:34,645
Speaker 4: out what she wants to do and say in the world,

432
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Speaker 4: and this isn't going to take her anytime soon. So

433
00:21:36,725 --> 00:21:39,845
Speaker 4: we'd always laugh and we'd say she's you know. I'd say,

434
00:21:39,885 --> 00:21:41,765
Speaker 4: you know you're dying, and she'd say, well, aren't we all?

435
00:21:42,445 --> 00:21:44,845
Speaker 4: And then she would say things like, well I could

436
00:21:44,925 --> 00:21:47,325
Speaker 4: live longer than you. I could live longer than anybody

437
00:21:47,405 --> 00:21:50,805
Speaker 4: that we're looking at. I don't think we understood how

438
00:21:50,845 --> 00:21:53,405
Speaker 4: much the clock was ticking until she went into the

439
00:21:53,405 --> 00:21:54,645
Speaker 4: hospital for that last time.

440
00:21:55,125 --> 00:21:58,365
Speaker 1: Well, she was not behaving like a person who was dying.

441
00:21:58,445 --> 00:22:00,765
Speaker 1: I mean the first thing she did was leave her husband,

442
00:22:02,525 --> 00:22:05,285
Speaker 1: which is not really what I would think of doing.

443
00:22:07,085 --> 00:22:10,245
Speaker 1: How did that, like, what was your when she said

444
00:22:10,965 --> 00:22:11,525
Speaker 1: I'm out of you.

445
00:22:12,125 --> 00:22:17,005
Speaker 4: I didn't even think twice about it. I thought, well, yeah, yeah.

446
00:22:16,205 --> 00:22:16,445
Speaker 2: You know.

447
00:22:16,565 --> 00:22:19,365
Speaker 4: The thing that did strike me was that he was

448
00:22:19,525 --> 00:22:23,525
Speaker 4: very much her sort of healthcare person, right, And I thought, well,

449
00:22:23,525 --> 00:22:25,165
Speaker 4: how is she going to navigate this? I want to

450
00:22:25,165 --> 00:22:30,685
Speaker 4: ask her? She said, well, there's uber I was like,

451
00:22:31,525 --> 00:22:33,885
Speaker 4: and I said to her, I love you, I will

452
00:22:33,885 --> 00:22:37,725
Speaker 4: be there for you, but I cannot be your person

453
00:22:37,765 --> 00:22:40,085
Speaker 4: in that way. I've got two jobs, I've got two

454
00:22:40,085 --> 00:22:43,365
Speaker 4: step daughters, I've got a family, a life. I said,

455
00:22:43,685 --> 00:22:46,165
Speaker 4: you are such a huge part of my life. But

456
00:22:46,205 --> 00:22:48,285
Speaker 4: I was very honest with her and told her my

457
00:22:48,365 --> 00:22:50,325
Speaker 4: limitations of what I could and couldn't do. And I

458
00:22:50,925 --> 00:22:52,485
Speaker 4: knew I could have that chat with her because of

459
00:22:52,525 --> 00:22:53,365
Speaker 4: how close we were.

460
00:22:53,645 --> 00:22:57,885
Speaker 1: Mickey, you are very good with boundaries. Oh, Because, like

461
00:22:57,925 --> 00:23:00,205
Speaker 1: I was thinking, most people would go, I'll pay there

462
00:23:00,245 --> 00:23:03,805
Speaker 1: for you. I'll do whatever it takes people like his

463
00:23:03,845 --> 00:23:05,885
Speaker 1: when I'm available. And also Papa.

464
00:23:10,405 --> 00:23:13,845
Speaker 4: Now, listen, when she knew that when she called me

465
00:23:13,885 --> 00:23:16,965
Speaker 4: and needed me, she knew that if she was going

466
00:23:17,005 --> 00:23:19,605
Speaker 4: to exercise that option and say I need you, that

467
00:23:19,725 --> 00:23:21,925
Speaker 4: I knew she meant it like there was no crying

468
00:23:22,005 --> 00:23:24,605
Speaker 4: whole fear right, Like she knew that when she needed me,

469
00:23:24,685 --> 00:23:28,005
Speaker 4: I was going to drop whatever however to be there

470
00:23:28,045 --> 00:23:31,365
Speaker 4: for her, and I did quite often because that was

471
00:23:31,485 --> 00:23:36,365
Speaker 4: just I wanted to. It made me feel close to

472
00:23:36,445 --> 00:23:39,565
Speaker 4: her and useful in the world, and it was I

473
00:23:39,685 --> 00:23:42,165
Speaker 4: was her person, and she was my person in a

474
00:23:42,165 --> 00:23:43,845
Speaker 4: way I always laughed at and I always say Molly

475
00:23:43,965 --> 00:23:47,605
Speaker 4: was my I was Molly's person. But now that she's gone,

476
00:23:48,445 --> 00:23:58,205
Speaker 4: I'm realizing, ugh, how much my person that she really was,

477
00:23:58,765 --> 00:24:02,085
Speaker 4: because I miss her in ways that I didn't even

478
00:24:02,125 --> 00:24:03,045
Speaker 4: think were possible.

479
00:24:09,525 --> 00:24:13,885
Speaker 1: It still comes the grief, right, Oh gosh, the waves.

480
00:24:15,165 --> 00:24:16,565
Speaker 1: How many years has it been now?

481
00:24:19,565 --> 00:24:23,165
Speaker 4: It was a year when the podcast was released, so

482
00:24:23,205 --> 00:24:28,245
Speaker 4: this passed February March as a year and a half.

483
00:24:30,125 --> 00:24:32,605
Speaker 4: It feels like yesterday, and it feels like a million

484
00:24:32,685 --> 00:24:34,725
Speaker 4: years ago, all wrapped up in one.

485
00:24:34,885 --> 00:24:35,045
Speaker 3: Right.

486
00:24:36,165 --> 00:24:38,405
Speaker 1: I feel like the fact that you were so good

487
00:24:38,405 --> 00:24:43,845
Speaker 1: with boundaries is incredibly impressive and was incredibly important for

488
00:24:43,925 --> 00:24:46,445
Speaker 1: your relationship to be able to stay as equal as

489
00:24:46,525 --> 00:24:48,405
Speaker 1: it was and to be able to stay as a

490
00:24:48,445 --> 00:24:53,285
Speaker 1: friendship like you weren't her, Cara, So you know that

491
00:24:53,485 --> 00:24:56,445
Speaker 1: from what I can glean about your friendship. From listening

492
00:24:56,485 --> 00:25:00,565
Speaker 1: to the podcast, you stayed on a very equal footing

493
00:25:00,885 --> 00:25:01,925
Speaker 1: throughout her illness.

494
00:25:02,085 --> 00:25:05,165
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a beautiful thing to get. I don't know

495
00:25:05,205 --> 00:25:08,085
Speaker 4: if I ever realized that, but thank you for seeing

496
00:25:08,125 --> 00:25:10,085
Speaker 4: that we did, and that was for both of us.

497
00:25:10,165 --> 00:25:13,205
Speaker 4: Did that together. I'm sure we both did that because

498
00:25:13,245 --> 00:25:16,405
Speaker 4: we didn't want to turn into a bad marriage. We

499
00:25:16,445 --> 00:25:18,885
Speaker 4: wanted to be like the best friends possible.

500
00:25:18,925 --> 00:25:20,965
Speaker 1: You know, when did the sex start happening?

501
00:25:21,965 --> 00:25:25,845
Speaker 4: Oh? Right, If I can tell you, this is exactly

502
00:25:25,885 --> 00:25:28,165
Speaker 4: how mine and Molly's chats would go. We'd be sobbing

503
00:25:28,205 --> 00:25:30,045
Speaker 4: at the table and then I would say, so can

504
00:25:30,085 --> 00:25:32,005
Speaker 4: we get back to the large penis that you saw

505
00:25:32,045 --> 00:25:37,285
Speaker 4: on Thursday? And She'd be like, happily. I was as

506
00:25:37,325 --> 00:25:39,725
Speaker 4: grateful to the sex as she was, because it was

507
00:25:39,765 --> 00:25:43,485
Speaker 4: such a nice distraction from talks about chemo and pills

508
00:25:43,525 --> 00:25:46,245
Speaker 4: and puking and you know, and your body falling apart.

509
00:25:46,325 --> 00:25:48,965
Speaker 4: It was a nice distraction. So the sex started before

510
00:25:49,005 --> 00:25:52,485
Speaker 4: she left, well virtually it started before she left her marriage.

511
00:25:52,605 --> 00:25:54,525
Speaker 4: And she said she asked him for permission if she

512
00:25:54,565 --> 00:25:58,485
Speaker 4: could go about that, and he was very willing to

513
00:25:58,805 --> 00:26:01,445
Speaker 4: allow her to sort of get tapped back into that

514
00:26:01,565 --> 00:26:04,205
Speaker 4: sexual part of herself, and then she realized she wanted

515
00:26:04,205 --> 00:26:06,165
Speaker 4: to take it into real life and she did not

516
00:26:06,245 --> 00:26:08,525
Speaker 4: want to be a cheater. And I think when she

517
00:26:08,605 --> 00:26:12,525
Speaker 4: was diagnosed to terminal, knowing that she wanted that part

518
00:26:12,565 --> 00:26:14,205
Speaker 4: of herself to feel alive again, she knew it was

519
00:26:14,245 --> 00:26:16,165
Speaker 4: time to leave the marriage. So as soon as she

520
00:26:16,245 --> 00:26:20,045
Speaker 4: left the marriage, she started dating like there was like

521
00:26:20,325 --> 00:26:23,845
Speaker 4: she started dating like she was dying, Like she went

522
00:26:23,965 --> 00:26:27,245
Speaker 4: for it. I mean, dates at six in the morning,

523
00:26:27,485 --> 00:26:30,445
Speaker 4: dates at two in the morning, dates at nine am, noon,

524
00:26:30,605 --> 00:26:33,165
Speaker 4: one at six pm. I mean, she was a serial dater.

525
00:26:33,485 --> 00:26:35,045
Speaker 4: It was crazy, wow.

526
00:26:35,205 --> 00:26:38,765
Speaker 1: And did she before she started dating in real life

527
00:26:38,885 --> 00:26:42,125
Speaker 1: she started. I've looked at the photos she took because

528
00:26:42,125 --> 00:26:45,765
Speaker 1: her Instagram account is still up, and those shots of

529
00:26:45,805 --> 00:26:48,845
Speaker 1: her she was really You could really see how she

530
00:26:48,885 --> 00:26:52,165
Speaker 1: was reclaiming her body and her identity as a sexual

531
00:26:52,205 --> 00:26:56,765
Speaker 1: being after cancer and through cancer and after ending her marriage.

532
00:26:57,165 --> 00:26:59,525
Speaker 1: And that was enough for her for a while, wasn't it.

533
00:26:59,525 --> 00:27:03,405
Speaker 1: It was yeah, until it wasn't until yeah.

534
00:27:03,525 --> 00:27:05,805
Speaker 4: I think at first it was about her reclaiming of

535
00:27:05,805 --> 00:27:09,085
Speaker 4: her body and not being seen through the lens of cancer.

536
00:27:09,085 --> 00:27:10,805
Speaker 4: I think part of the reason why she kept her

537
00:27:10,845 --> 00:27:12,885
Speaker 4: cancer so private is she didn't want to be seen.

538
00:27:12,965 --> 00:27:16,045
Speaker 4: That is only that, and that happens often. I mean,

539
00:27:16,045 --> 00:27:18,445
Speaker 4: when someone you know that has cancer walks into a party,

540
00:27:18,485 --> 00:27:22,005
Speaker 4: the first thing you do is, oh, like you feel yeah,

541
00:27:22,125 --> 00:27:30,845
Speaker 4: And she didn't exactly fly and I think she appreciated that,

542
00:27:30,885 --> 00:27:32,525
Speaker 4: but that's not how she wanted to be seen. So

543
00:27:32,565 --> 00:27:35,965
Speaker 4: she would take these really sexy selfies, like super erotic

544
00:27:36,045 --> 00:27:38,965
Speaker 4: looking selfies that were Instagram friendly, and she posts them,

545
00:27:39,005 --> 00:27:42,005
Speaker 4: but she coupled them with these statements that were honest

546
00:27:42,085 --> 00:27:44,485
Speaker 4: statements like what she had been going through, what it's

547
00:27:44,485 --> 00:27:46,485
Speaker 4: like to have, you know, a port in her arm

548
00:27:46,525 --> 00:27:48,845
Speaker 4: and trying to hide it so that the sexy selfie

549
00:27:48,885 --> 00:27:51,965
Speaker 4: can be sexy and not you know, medical equipment. And

550
00:27:52,485 --> 00:27:54,205
Speaker 4: she would be honest and say, some days I'm on

551
00:27:54,245 --> 00:27:57,365
Speaker 4: the bathroom floor, you know, taking a selfie and looking erotic.

552
00:27:57,405 --> 00:27:59,405
Speaker 4: In other days, I'm on the bathroom floor because I

553
00:27:59,405 --> 00:28:02,285
Speaker 4: can't get off of it because I'm so fatigued. But

554
00:28:02,365 --> 00:28:05,525
Speaker 4: she wanted to start, you know, dipping her toe into that,

555
00:28:05,565 --> 00:28:08,445
Speaker 4: and so she started going on apps bum bumble, I

556
00:28:08,605 --> 00:28:11,005
Speaker 4: look at me. I'm like, what's it called mumble and tender.

557
00:28:12,965 --> 00:28:15,765
Speaker 4: I'm a serial like I'm a serial monogamous, so I

558
00:28:15,805 --> 00:28:17,525
Speaker 4: just go from one relationship to the next.

559
00:28:17,605 --> 00:28:17,765
Speaker 1: Right.

560
00:28:17,845 --> 00:28:20,885
Speaker 4: I didn't have time to date. I was too busy

561
00:28:21,045 --> 00:28:26,125
Speaker 4: making people commit to me. Anyway, that's a book in

562
00:28:26,125 --> 00:28:29,965
Speaker 4: and of it, Bill, But Molly really great, just like

563
00:28:30,565 --> 00:28:33,485
Speaker 4: meeting people where they were seeing guys that had these

564
00:28:33,605 --> 00:28:37,325
Speaker 4: interesting fetishes, talking to them on Tinder, talking to them

565
00:28:37,325 --> 00:28:40,765
Speaker 4: on Okay Cupid. Really there's an underbelly of sex that

566
00:28:40,805 --> 00:28:43,165
Speaker 4: goes on on all of these apps that I didn't

567
00:28:43,205 --> 00:28:45,805
Speaker 4: know about.

568
00:28:44,165 --> 00:28:48,245
Speaker 1: So let's revisit some of those. The couple in the

569
00:28:48,285 --> 00:28:50,045
Speaker 1: bar that she met, I.

570
00:28:49,965 --> 00:28:52,365
Speaker 4: Think that was the second or third thing she had

571
00:28:52,405 --> 00:28:55,245
Speaker 4: done in real life. And you know, she had always

572
00:28:55,285 --> 00:28:57,085
Speaker 4: been like, oh, should I should I date women? Should

573
00:28:57,085 --> 00:28:58,685
Speaker 4: I should I try it with a woman? And I'm like, well,

574
00:28:58,685 --> 00:29:01,045
Speaker 4: do you have interest? And She's like no, but I'm

575
00:29:01,045 --> 00:29:03,405
Speaker 4: gonna do it anyway. I'm like, okay. So she met

576
00:29:03,405 --> 00:29:05,085
Speaker 4: a couple in a bar that's actually right up the

577
00:29:05,085 --> 00:29:07,525
Speaker 4: street from where she was living and where I was living.

578
00:29:07,565 --> 00:29:09,765
Speaker 4: So this was all happening in the same neighbor which

579
00:29:09,805 --> 00:29:12,325
Speaker 4: is funny because I would take my stepdaughters to lunch

580
00:29:12,405 --> 00:29:15,565
Speaker 4: at the same little pub where Molly was like doing

581
00:29:15,645 --> 00:29:17,245
Speaker 4: things in the parking lot and I was like, this

582
00:29:17,325 --> 00:29:21,685
Speaker 4: is so weird and amazing. So yeah, she dated a

583
00:29:21,685 --> 00:29:24,685
Speaker 4: couple for a minute, made out with the woman in

584
00:29:24,685 --> 00:29:26,965
Speaker 4: the bathroom and was like, yeah, this is not hot.

585
00:29:27,085 --> 00:29:29,645
Speaker 4: And then while she was ending that date, she was

586
00:29:29,685 --> 00:29:33,405
Speaker 4: starting another date via her phone that she was heading

587
00:29:33,445 --> 00:29:37,125
Speaker 4: to go meet and exchanging you know, pictures back and

588
00:29:37,165 --> 00:29:39,725
Speaker 4: forth with the guy while she was basically telling this

589
00:29:39,805 --> 00:29:42,965
Speaker 4: couple like, hey, this was really hot, but I gotta go.

590
00:29:43,285 --> 00:29:46,365
Speaker 4: So she multitasking like a badass.

591
00:29:47,525 --> 00:29:50,245
Speaker 1: The other episode from the podcast that I love is

592
00:29:50,925 --> 00:29:52,525
Speaker 1: I can't remember if it was at the end of

593
00:29:52,525 --> 00:29:54,885
Speaker 1: that actual date where she goes to the car with

594
00:29:55,125 --> 00:29:56,765
Speaker 1: the guy to make out.

595
00:29:57,245 --> 00:30:00,525
Speaker 4: Yes, that was in the same exact neighborhood, at the

596
00:30:00,605 --> 00:30:02,765
Speaker 4: same exact bar. In fact, I've tried to get this

597
00:30:02,845 --> 00:30:05,365
Speaker 4: bar to like sponsor something because I'm like, do you

598
00:30:05,405 --> 00:30:06,605
Speaker 4: know what went on at your bar?

599
00:30:06,925 --> 00:30:11,485
Speaker 1: It needs to be a ploqu nikki at the bar. Definitely,

600
00:30:12,805 --> 00:30:13,805
Speaker 1: that's so funny.

601
00:30:13,925 --> 00:30:15,525
Speaker 4: Well, you know what's funny is that I called the

602
00:30:15,525 --> 00:30:19,165
Speaker 4: bar not that long ago to say could we do

603
00:30:19,285 --> 00:30:23,245
Speaker 4: something together? And the bartender goes, oh, Mollie, and I

604
00:30:23,285 --> 00:30:26,045
Speaker 4: was like, what, he goes, Yeah, we have listened to

605
00:30:26,085 --> 00:30:30,605
Speaker 4: the podcast. We remember Mollie and I'm like, oh my gosh,

606
00:30:30,605 --> 00:30:33,165
Speaker 4: this is another episode to record with these guys. All

607
00:30:33,165 --> 00:30:35,805
Speaker 4: these bartenders knew who she was because she frequented so often,

608
00:30:35,925 --> 00:30:38,445
Speaker 4: and she never ordered a drink because she wasn't a drinker,

609
00:30:38,525 --> 00:30:40,845
Speaker 4: so they knew she was a club, soda and lime girl.

610
00:30:41,445 --> 00:30:43,085
Speaker 4: So she hooked up with the gate I think he

611
00:30:43,165 --> 00:30:45,565
Speaker 4: might have been the first she hooks up with him.

612
00:30:46,085 --> 00:30:49,845
Speaker 4: They go to the car, they start, you know, making

613
00:30:49,885 --> 00:30:52,365
Speaker 4: out pretty hot and heavy. I think her top came

614
00:30:52,405 --> 00:30:54,925
Speaker 4: off and his pants came down, and the next thing,

615
00:30:54,965 --> 00:30:57,445
Speaker 4: you know, I think she's giving them oral sex. I

616
00:30:57,445 --> 00:30:59,685
Speaker 4: think that's what was going on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And

617
00:30:59,725 --> 00:31:03,005
Speaker 4: then he started to get super roused. Didn't quite know

618
00:31:03,045 --> 00:31:05,685
Speaker 4: what to do with it, so he opened the car

619
00:31:05,725 --> 00:31:10,125
Speaker 4: door and just sort of let it all. I meant

620
00:31:10,325 --> 00:31:13,245
Speaker 4: this into the lawn, right, I don't I don't know

621
00:31:13,245 --> 00:31:14,565
Speaker 4: how graphic we can get here.

622
00:31:14,805 --> 00:31:17,725
Speaker 1: Oh, very that's fine. Onto the lawn, which is an

623
00:31:17,765 --> 00:31:19,325
Speaker 1: interesting choice.

624
00:31:19,325 --> 00:31:22,125
Speaker 4: Right, But in the midst of it, his car alarm

625
00:31:22,245 --> 00:31:25,245
Speaker 4: starts to go off very loudly in a very private,

626
00:31:25,445 --> 00:31:29,685
Speaker 4: high end neighborhood. So as he's sort of unloading his

627
00:31:31,005 --> 00:31:38,125
Speaker 4: thing into life, well manicured minds the alarms and he

628
00:31:38,165 --> 00:31:40,685
Speaker 4: can't figure out how to turn off the alarm, and

629
00:31:40,725 --> 00:31:42,845
Speaker 4: it is blaring and it is a mess. And the

630
00:31:42,925 --> 00:31:46,085
Speaker 4: beauty of this is that she never saw him again.

631
00:31:46,765 --> 00:31:49,685
Speaker 4: We record the podcast, you know, a few years later

632
00:31:50,005 --> 00:31:52,845
Speaker 4: we recorded and start talking about this episode, and then

633
00:31:52,885 --> 00:31:55,565
Speaker 4: when Mollie went into the hospital, I realized, oh, we're

634
00:31:55,605 --> 00:31:58,685
Speaker 4: not gonna be able to finish this podcast together. And

635
00:31:58,725 --> 00:32:01,405
Speaker 4: then he appeared on the po I called him out

636
00:32:01,445 --> 00:32:03,085
Speaker 4: of the blue and to have him come on the

637
00:32:03,125 --> 00:32:05,725
Speaker 4: podcast and be so willing to sort of air his

638
00:32:05,765 --> 00:32:08,525
Speaker 4: dirty laundry. He he and I are still friends. We

639
00:32:08,605 --> 00:32:11,445
Speaker 4: still communicate, and I adore him.

640
00:32:12,085 --> 00:32:14,445
Speaker 1: It was such a good spot because she hadn't told

641
00:32:14,485 --> 00:32:19,165
Speaker 1: him that she was sick, and he was so lovely

642
00:32:19,205 --> 00:32:21,965
Speaker 1: and open to having a chat about it when you called.

643
00:32:21,925 --> 00:32:24,325
Speaker 4: I know, he was just he's like one of my

644
00:32:24,405 --> 00:32:26,605
Speaker 4: favorite people. And we did meet for coffee and we

645
00:32:26,685 --> 00:32:29,565
Speaker 4: hung out, and I just kept thinking, Molly has no

646
00:32:29,685 --> 00:32:32,205
Speaker 4: idea the people that she's brought together in the stories,

647
00:32:32,365 --> 00:32:34,805
Speaker 4: and it was just it was one of those moments

648
00:32:34,805 --> 00:32:36,045
Speaker 4: where I was like, oh my gosh, this is where

649
00:32:36,045 --> 00:32:37,965
Speaker 4: Molly and I used to have coffee, and now I'm

650
00:32:38,005 --> 00:32:41,005
Speaker 4: having coffee with car alarm guy instead of Molly, but

651
00:32:41,045 --> 00:32:44,645
Speaker 4: we're talking about Molly. It was just all very very cool.

652
00:32:45,005 --> 00:32:48,405
Speaker 1: One time you went to her house and she had

653
00:32:48,445 --> 00:32:51,845
Speaker 1: like makeup down one side of her face, like red,

654
00:32:51,885 --> 00:32:52,885
Speaker 1: white and blue makeup.

655
00:32:53,085 --> 00:32:56,925
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was very it was contouring on a whole

656
00:32:56,925 --> 00:32:58,685
Speaker 4: new I was like, what is that color? I don't

657
00:32:58,685 --> 00:33:00,485
Speaker 4: think that. She's like, oh my gosh. She was in

658
00:33:00,525 --> 00:33:04,485
Speaker 4: a little nightie and she was just yeah, looked like

659
00:33:04,605 --> 00:33:08,165
Speaker 4: she had gone to the circus and she kind of had.

660
00:33:08,245 --> 00:33:10,005
Speaker 4: And I said where were you and she said, oh,

661
00:33:10,045 --> 00:33:12,285
Speaker 4: I was making out with a clown. And I said

662
00:33:12,885 --> 00:33:16,485
Speaker 4: like where, and she's like, well, he was working. And

663
00:33:16,525 --> 00:33:19,085
Speaker 4: then we hooked up and we just went for it.

664
00:33:19,125 --> 00:33:21,685
Speaker 4: He wanted to have sex with me while dressed as

665
00:33:21,725 --> 00:33:24,325
Speaker 4: a clown. And I said, and you went with it,

666
00:33:24,365 --> 00:33:26,245
Speaker 4: and she's like, oh, yeah, it was good. She's like

667
00:33:26,285 --> 00:33:30,925
Speaker 4: it was good. Okay, So yeah, it was smeared down

668
00:33:30,925 --> 00:33:32,685
Speaker 4: her face and her really light Like you said, she

669
00:33:32,685 --> 00:33:34,845
Speaker 4: had really blonde hair, and it was in her hair

670
00:33:34,925 --> 00:33:37,245
Speaker 4: it was red and blue. And I was like, oh,

671
00:33:37,285 --> 00:33:40,125
Speaker 4: my gosh, but that was Molly. I mean she was

672
00:33:40,165 --> 00:33:42,405
Speaker 4: just up for She was up for a lot, she

673
00:33:42,485 --> 00:33:43,285
Speaker 4: was up for anything.

674
00:33:43,725 --> 00:33:46,925
Speaker 1: She was very completely non judgmental and ended up hooking

675
00:33:46,965 --> 00:33:50,845
Speaker 1: up with guys and learning quite a lot about different fetishes. Yeah,

676
00:33:51,445 --> 00:33:54,605
Speaker 1: the most perverse one was the guy who wanted her

677
00:33:54,645 --> 00:33:55,285
Speaker 1: to kick.

678
00:33:55,125 --> 00:33:59,525
Speaker 4: Him really hard, multiple times, over and over again in

679
00:33:59,685 --> 00:34:02,645
Speaker 4: the nuts, which I just thought was fascinating because isn't

680
00:34:02,685 --> 00:34:06,285
Speaker 4: that like the most painful thing that can happen to

681
00:34:06,325 --> 00:34:08,205
Speaker 4: a guy. But you would, so I asked her. I

682
00:34:08,245 --> 00:34:09,885
Speaker 4: had a lot of questions. I mean this was probably

683
00:34:09,925 --> 00:34:12,125
Speaker 4: a six hour lunch one day when we just sat

684
00:34:12,245 --> 00:34:14,565
Speaker 4: and I wrote down all these stories because I was like, oh,

685
00:34:14,565 --> 00:34:17,605
Speaker 4: my gosh, there is something here. So yeah, the guy

686
00:34:17,685 --> 00:34:20,045
Speaker 4: just wanted to be kicked multiple times over and over

687
00:34:20,085 --> 00:34:23,605
Speaker 4: and over again, and he didn't sort of climax or anything.

688
00:34:24,325 --> 00:34:27,045
Speaker 4: But she described it as sort of spank bank material

689
00:34:27,125 --> 00:34:29,845
Speaker 4: that he would carry with him for later in his

690
00:34:30,565 --> 00:34:35,485
Speaker 4: sex life. But there was something about being tortured in pain,

691
00:34:36,285 --> 00:34:39,445
Speaker 4: kicked by a woman in heels or in bare feet

692
00:34:39,485 --> 00:34:42,325
Speaker 4: that was just very erotic to him. I I had

693
00:34:42,365 --> 00:34:43,885
Speaker 4: to get over a lot of my judgment because I

694
00:34:43,925 --> 00:34:50,845
Speaker 4: was like what, why, who? Where? No? Oh, it doesn't

695
00:34:50,885 --> 00:34:51,765
Speaker 4: make any sense.

696
00:34:52,565 --> 00:34:56,045
Speaker 1: But no, did these things turn her on or she

697
00:34:56,165 --> 00:35:00,245
Speaker 1: was more just almost like a wildlife documentary, just learning

698
00:35:00,285 --> 00:35:03,685
Speaker 1: about people and sex and different things.

699
00:35:04,085 --> 00:35:06,165
Speaker 4: You Know, it's funny you say that, because a lot

700
00:35:06,205 --> 00:35:09,285
Speaker 4: of responses were well while Molly was just being a

701
00:35:09,445 --> 00:35:11,645
Speaker 4: service to people and doing things for others and not

702
00:35:11,725 --> 00:35:14,485
Speaker 4: necessarily for herself. And that does fall in line with

703
00:35:14,525 --> 00:35:16,205
Speaker 4: a little bit of who Mollie was, where she would

704
00:35:16,205 --> 00:35:18,525
Speaker 4: get a little lost sometimes in a dynamic and she

705
00:35:18,565 --> 00:35:21,165
Speaker 4: would just be such a good listener and so much

706
00:35:21,165 --> 00:35:24,405
Speaker 4: of service that maybe she wouldn't figure out her own

707
00:35:24,445 --> 00:35:26,325
Speaker 4: needs or her own ones. And I think as she

708
00:35:26,405 --> 00:35:31,605
Speaker 4: got more experienced, she realized how to learn things about

709
00:35:31,645 --> 00:35:36,445
Speaker 4: herself within the dynamic of that. She wasn't interested in

710
00:35:36,485 --> 00:35:39,925
Speaker 4: being a dominatrix, but she tried it right. She wasn't

711
00:35:39,925 --> 00:35:43,405
Speaker 4: interested in certain fetishes, but she was really interested in

712
00:35:43,445 --> 00:35:47,605
Speaker 4: the people behind the fetishes, the humans underneath it. And

713
00:35:47,645 --> 00:35:49,925
Speaker 4: so yes, a lot of it was sex based, but

714
00:35:49,965 --> 00:35:51,565
Speaker 4: I think a lot of it was human based. She

715
00:35:51,645 --> 00:35:54,205
Speaker 4: was just like absorbing all of it and in the

716
00:35:54,245 --> 00:35:58,205
Speaker 4: process feeling really sexy and connected to her sexuality. Into

717
00:35:58,245 --> 00:36:00,805
Speaker 4: her body that she was robbed of that as a

718
00:36:00,885 --> 00:36:04,245
Speaker 4: younger girl and a woman. And I think this was

719
00:36:04,325 --> 00:36:07,205
Speaker 4: there was a reclaiming happening. The sex needed to come

720
00:36:07,485 --> 00:36:10,005
Speaker 4: and then the emotional stuff was able to come after.

721
00:36:10,085 --> 00:36:12,205
Speaker 4: And I think she learned that when she was reflecting

722
00:36:12,205 --> 00:36:14,085
Speaker 4: on her life from her hospital bed.

723
00:36:15,485 --> 00:36:20,125
Speaker 1: There's a point in your story and your friendship where

724
00:36:20,565 --> 00:36:23,085
Speaker 1: she's invited to go to New York to be in

725
00:36:23,125 --> 00:36:28,405
Speaker 1: a like a Breastcatzer fashion parade. Yeah, and she thinks

726
00:36:28,405 --> 00:36:30,565
Speaker 1: that it's going to be really great, and her mum,

727
00:36:30,725 --> 00:36:32,965
Speaker 1: I think lives still lives in New York, and you

728
00:36:33,005 --> 00:36:35,845
Speaker 1: went with her, and it turned out to be quite

729
00:36:35,885 --> 00:36:38,365
Speaker 1: a dark time, didn't it.

730
00:36:38,365 --> 00:36:42,085
Speaker 4: It did? It was? You know, in the midst of it,

731
00:36:42,285 --> 00:36:46,165
Speaker 4: I was just doing being of service, helping and kind

732
00:36:46,165 --> 00:36:49,805
Speaker 4: of on autopilot. A little bit about halfway through the trip,

733
00:36:49,845 --> 00:36:52,365
Speaker 4: I realized that this was not turning out the way

734
00:36:52,445 --> 00:36:55,685
Speaker 4: that we both had hoped. We looked at it as

735
00:36:55,725 --> 00:36:57,445
Speaker 4: an opportunity for the two of us to go to

736
00:36:57,485 --> 00:37:00,965
Speaker 4: New York, stay in her childhood home, go to these parties,

737
00:37:01,125 --> 00:37:05,165
Speaker 4: be in fashion week. And when she got there, she

738
00:37:05,325 --> 00:37:08,365
Speaker 4: wasn't feeling great. A lot of it was emotional. I

739
00:37:08,405 --> 00:37:11,885
Speaker 4: think going back to New York with heart on her

740
00:37:12,085 --> 00:37:14,805
Speaker 4: I think that city carried a lot of sadness and

741
00:37:14,845 --> 00:37:17,365
Speaker 4: grief for her that she maybe had forgotten about over

742
00:37:17,405 --> 00:37:20,965
Speaker 4: the years. And I also think that, you know, she

743
00:37:21,125 --> 00:37:23,885
Speaker 4: wanted a sense of community in the breast cancer world,

744
00:37:24,005 --> 00:37:26,365
Speaker 4: but never quite knew how to find it with other women,

745
00:37:26,525 --> 00:37:31,125
Speaker 4: because she wanted to be seen but not she wanted

746
00:37:31,165 --> 00:37:35,125
Speaker 4: to be heard but not. So she was constantly just

747
00:37:36,085 --> 00:37:40,565
Speaker 4: you know, didn't know where to land. And I think

748
00:37:40,725 --> 00:37:44,085
Speaker 4: that she it was the first time she had gone

749
00:37:44,125 --> 00:37:47,885
Speaker 4: public about having breast cancer on a stage in front

750
00:37:47,925 --> 00:37:51,445
Speaker 4: of thousands of people, walking the catwalk as a badass.

751
00:37:52,085 --> 00:37:56,085
Speaker 4: But I kept seeing the younger girl and her sort

752
00:37:56,125 --> 00:37:59,245
Speaker 4: of crumbling because it was a lot. I think it

753
00:37:59,285 --> 00:38:01,205
Speaker 4: was a lot more than she or I or her

754
00:38:01,205 --> 00:38:04,685
Speaker 4: mom had expected. And so that was a really that

755
00:38:04,765 --> 00:38:07,125
Speaker 4: was a really hard trip on our friendship. It was hard.

756
00:38:07,125 --> 00:38:10,005
Speaker 4: It was like our first really big fight. I was

757
00:38:10,045 --> 00:38:13,365
Speaker 4: also going through my own personal stuff. I was pregnant

758
00:38:13,725 --> 00:38:15,285
Speaker 4: at the time, and I don't even know if I've

759
00:38:15,325 --> 00:38:17,165
Speaker 4: ever said that out loud, and maybe I have, but

760
00:38:18,485 --> 00:38:20,445
Speaker 4: I was pregnant, and I think it was probably my

761
00:38:20,725 --> 00:38:24,525
Speaker 4: fourth or fifth pregnancy. So I had lost all of

762
00:38:24,605 --> 00:38:29,805
Speaker 4: my pregnancies, all of them, and very latent to the pregnancies.

763
00:38:29,845 --> 00:38:34,365
Speaker 4: So here I was pregnant again, feeling hopeful but terrified,

764
00:38:34,525 --> 00:38:36,805
Speaker 4: and going on an airplane to support my best friend

765
00:38:36,805 --> 00:38:39,885
Speaker 4: with cancer. And I was emotional, she was emotional, and

766
00:38:39,925 --> 00:38:42,845
Speaker 4: it was kind of a recipe for disaster. And we

767
00:38:42,885 --> 00:38:45,245
Speaker 4: went through a lot during that weekend. It was it

768
00:38:45,325 --> 00:38:50,805
Speaker 4: was really really dark, beautiful moments to beautiful moments do

769
00:38:50,845 --> 00:38:55,645
Speaker 4: you'll fight about? It was so stupid. It really is right,

770
00:38:55,805 --> 00:38:58,205
Speaker 4: like I'm not a good like my fiance always says

771
00:38:58,245 --> 00:39:00,085
Speaker 4: to me, like you're not a good closer, like I

772
00:39:00,125 --> 00:39:02,125
Speaker 4: will be a rock star. But that then, like the

773
00:39:02,205 --> 00:39:04,725
Speaker 4: last mile of the race, I'm like, oh, of this,

774
00:39:05,445 --> 00:39:10,125
Speaker 4: So I'm like the worst. So I had we I

775
00:39:10,165 --> 00:39:13,005
Speaker 4: had flown there with her, we had stayed at her place,

776
00:39:13,085 --> 00:39:15,685
Speaker 4: we had sort of battled this thing together, and then

777
00:39:15,725 --> 00:39:18,245
Speaker 4: on her way home, she was just exhausted and tired,

778
00:39:19,205 --> 00:39:22,565
Speaker 4: and we got to the airport in Burbank and she

779
00:39:22,565 --> 00:39:24,485
Speaker 4: couldn't lift her bags, and all of a sudden, I

780
00:39:24,485 --> 00:39:26,645
Speaker 4: shouldn't have been lifting anything either, because I was pregnant

781
00:39:26,645 --> 00:39:29,125
Speaker 4: and terrified of losing another baby that I did end

782
00:39:29,205 --> 00:39:37,845
Speaker 4: up losing, by the way, you know, thank you, you know. So,

783
00:39:37,845 --> 00:39:42,405
Speaker 4: so we get off of the flight and my stepdaughters

784
00:39:42,765 --> 00:39:45,485
Speaker 4: and my dog and my fiance are coming to pick

785
00:39:45,485 --> 00:39:47,685
Speaker 4: me up, and Molly says, do you think I could

786
00:39:47,725 --> 00:39:49,925
Speaker 4: have a ride home? And I thought, oh gosh, I

787
00:39:49,965 --> 00:39:51,565
Speaker 4: don't know how we're going to fit everybody in the car.

788
00:39:53,405 --> 00:39:55,125
Speaker 4: And I said, they're all coming to pick me up

789
00:39:55,165 --> 00:39:57,205
Speaker 4: and you live opposite And it was one of those

790
00:39:57,245 --> 00:40:00,645
Speaker 4: moments where I was like, I felt tapped out, and

791
00:40:00,685 --> 00:40:02,925
Speaker 4: I just said, I can't give you a ride home.

792
00:40:03,005 --> 00:40:04,445
Speaker 4: The kids are in the car, and she kind of

793
00:40:04,485 --> 00:40:06,445
Speaker 4: rolled her eyes and got upset with me, you know,

794
00:40:07,605 --> 00:40:10,405
Speaker 4: and I snapped and I was like, it was pouring

795
00:40:10,445 --> 00:40:13,325
Speaker 4: down rain, she's so sick and frail, and she's holding

796
00:40:13,365 --> 00:40:15,885
Speaker 4: her bags, and I said, call an uber. I can't

797
00:40:15,925 --> 00:40:17,845
Speaker 4: deal with this. And I think I said something really

798
00:40:17,845 --> 00:40:20,205
Speaker 4: shitty and walked away from her and left her basically

799
00:40:20,645 --> 00:40:23,845
Speaker 4: standing in the rain with her bag, very sick and exhausted.

800
00:40:24,685 --> 00:40:28,645
Speaker 4: And that was our first real like fu fight, like

801
00:40:28,725 --> 00:40:31,365
Speaker 4: I'm tired of this shit. And we didn't talk for

802
00:40:31,405 --> 00:40:33,085
Speaker 4: two weeks, and that was the longest we had ever

803
00:40:33,085 --> 00:40:36,925
Speaker 4: gone without talking, but we uh we hashed it out

804
00:40:36,965 --> 00:40:41,365
Speaker 4: on the phone and really like aired our grievances and

805
00:40:41,525 --> 00:40:44,445
Speaker 4: moved on. It kind of brought us closer because I

806
00:40:44,485 --> 00:40:46,685
Speaker 4: feel like, once you have your first real fight with

807
00:40:46,765 --> 00:40:49,045
Speaker 4: a friend, that was kind of our first fight. It

808
00:40:49,125 --> 00:40:50,645
Speaker 4: was like twenty years in the making.

809
00:40:51,205 --> 00:40:53,965
Speaker 1: You have to be very connected and feel very safe

810
00:40:54,005 --> 00:40:56,245
Speaker 1: in your relationship to have a fight like that.

811
00:40:56,885 --> 00:40:59,365
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I still feel bad about leaving her in

812
00:40:59,405 --> 00:41:02,565
Speaker 4: the rain, like that image. I won't ever forget of

813
00:41:02,765 --> 00:41:06,045
Speaker 4: just abandoning her. But she kissed me off, so yeah,

814
00:41:06,445 --> 00:41:06,965
Speaker 4: that was mad.

815
00:41:07,525 --> 00:41:11,325
Speaker 1: Where it is? When did you find out about what

816
00:41:11,405 --> 00:41:13,685
Speaker 1: had happened to her as a kid, and how did

817
00:41:13,725 --> 00:41:17,725
Speaker 1: that change the way you looked at her whole sexual adventure?

818
00:41:20,765 --> 00:41:23,365
Speaker 4: You know, her sexual trauma. I always knew about it

819
00:41:23,605 --> 00:41:26,445
Speaker 4: because she told me very early on in our friendship.

820
00:41:26,485 --> 00:41:28,845
Speaker 4: But my twenty year old self, I think absorbed it

821
00:41:28,925 --> 00:41:32,605
Speaker 4: very differently than my forty year old self, So I

822
00:41:32,685 --> 00:41:34,765
Speaker 4: just kind of took it as, oh, that's information about her,

823
00:41:34,805 --> 00:41:37,125
Speaker 4: and that must have been very difficult and so hard,

824
00:41:39,085 --> 00:41:40,725
Speaker 4: but not into And you know, it's funny when she

825
00:41:40,765 --> 00:41:44,245
Speaker 4: started doing the sex right, like having crazy amounts of sex.

826
00:41:44,925 --> 00:41:50,445
Speaker 4: I didn't really I didn't want to say, oh, this

827
00:41:50,525 --> 00:41:53,125
Speaker 4: must be because of your trauma, right, Like, who am

828
00:41:53,125 --> 00:41:54,845
Speaker 4: I to say that? I don't know what this is.

829
00:41:54,925 --> 00:41:57,125
Speaker 4: I just supported her through all of it, no matter

830
00:41:57,165 --> 00:41:59,125
Speaker 4: what it was, like, who cares where it comes from.

831
00:41:59,285 --> 00:42:00,525
Speaker 4: If you have to go through it, you have to

832
00:42:00,565 --> 00:42:02,765
Speaker 4: go through it. So I thought a lot of it

833
00:42:02,845 --> 00:42:05,085
Speaker 4: was a reclaiming of her body. I thought a lot

834
00:42:05,125 --> 00:42:08,485
Speaker 4: of it was sowing some oats. She had an adverse

835
00:42:08,525 --> 00:42:11,445
Speaker 4: reaction to the me ocasion, which most people when they

836
00:42:11,525 --> 00:42:14,405
Speaker 4: do this sort of hormone therapy in their cancer journey,

837
00:42:14,485 --> 00:42:16,605
Speaker 4: it shuts everything down. But for her, she was like

838
00:42:17,205 --> 00:42:21,485
Speaker 4: vibrating and alive. So whether or not she was sexually

839
00:42:21,485 --> 00:42:23,885
Speaker 4: abused as a child or not, I felt like, this

840
00:42:24,085 --> 00:42:27,725
Speaker 4: is what she needs to go through. And I supported

841
00:42:27,765 --> 00:42:30,125
Speaker 4: it for two reasons. One because who am I to

842
00:42:30,365 --> 00:42:33,525
Speaker 4: judge somebody else's journey? And it was fun And I

843
00:42:33,565 --> 00:42:37,085
Speaker 4: saw her feel alive. And I saw her processing things

844
00:42:37,125 --> 00:42:40,445
Speaker 4: and getting excited about life and being excited about how

845
00:42:40,445 --> 00:42:43,125
Speaker 4: she looked and felt in the world. And it wasn't

846
00:42:43,125 --> 00:42:48,005
Speaker 4: all pretty. There are some real, messy, messy, uncomfortable things

847
00:42:48,325 --> 00:42:52,005
Speaker 4: that went down during these sexcapades. But I just always

848
00:42:52,325 --> 00:42:56,525
Speaker 4: trusted her, and I trusted that she knew her limitations

849
00:42:56,525 --> 00:42:58,605
Speaker 4: and what she could and couldn't do, And even though

850
00:42:58,605 --> 00:43:00,925
Speaker 4: she had been through trauma, I trusted that she was

851
00:43:01,725 --> 00:43:04,845
Speaker 4: protecting herself and taking care of herself. I would get worried,

852
00:43:05,845 --> 00:43:08,245
Speaker 4: but I always knew that, I don't know, I always

853
00:43:08,285 --> 00:43:09,525
Speaker 4: knew she'd be okay.

854
00:43:09,885 --> 00:43:13,085
Speaker 1: Were you worried for her physical safety? Like cooking up

855
00:43:13,085 --> 00:43:16,205
Speaker 1: with these random guys, the clowns and the nut kicker, and.

856
00:43:19,925 --> 00:43:23,245
Speaker 4: Well, I know it's funny occasionally, like there were times

857
00:43:23,245 --> 00:43:25,045
Speaker 4: where I'd say, could you text me when you get home,

858
00:43:25,125 --> 00:43:27,285
Speaker 4: just so I know you're safe? Right? And also, I

859
00:43:27,325 --> 00:43:29,605
Speaker 4: mean she's you know, she's a New York girl, right,

860
00:43:29,605 --> 00:43:31,405
Speaker 4: I mean she's an Upper West Side New York girl.

861
00:43:31,405 --> 00:43:33,725
Speaker 4: I'm from Saint Louis. Like I can kick some serious ass.

862
00:43:33,765 --> 00:43:35,925
Speaker 4: I'm like, she know she knows how to you know.

863
00:43:36,365 --> 00:43:37,805
Speaker 1: She knows how to kick someone in the nuts.

864
00:43:37,845 --> 00:43:43,525
Speaker 4: Now true, that's so true. So I kind of always

865
00:43:43,605 --> 00:43:45,365
Speaker 4: knew that she was gonna be okay. There were a

866
00:43:45,405 --> 00:43:47,045
Speaker 4: couple of times where I was a little like, hey, Molly,

867
00:43:47,125 --> 00:43:49,645
Speaker 4: let's maybe not let's be a little safer, and she'd

868
00:43:49,645 --> 00:43:52,085
Speaker 4: be like, I know, I know, But overall I felt

869
00:43:52,165 --> 00:43:55,765
Speaker 4: like what she was doing you say that I'm good

870
00:43:55,765 --> 00:43:58,765
Speaker 4: at boundaries. Mollie was great, I think with some boundaries

871
00:43:59,285 --> 00:44:02,725
Speaker 4: within herself. There were times she found herself not great

872
00:44:02,765 --> 00:44:07,445
Speaker 4: with boundaries, but overall, in this journey, overall, I think

873
00:44:07,485 --> 00:44:10,125
Speaker 4: she really knew how to tune in with herself and

874
00:44:10,165 --> 00:44:13,205
Speaker 4: how to have conversations with herself to say, ah, this

875
00:44:13,285 --> 00:44:15,685
Speaker 4: is starting to feel like old stuff, this is starting

876
00:44:15,685 --> 00:44:19,525
Speaker 4: to feel like trauma, and this is feeling like being alive.

877
00:44:20,285 --> 00:44:22,925
Speaker 4: I think she could tell the difference. And as she

878
00:44:23,005 --> 00:44:26,045
Speaker 4: went on and had more sexual encounters, the more she

879
00:44:26,125 --> 00:44:28,565
Speaker 4: learned about herself, and I thought that was pretty empowering.

880
00:44:29,885 --> 00:44:32,245
Speaker 1: When she went into hospital for that final time, she

881
00:44:32,245 --> 00:44:34,085
Speaker 1: didn't realize that it was going to be the final time.

882
00:44:34,165 --> 00:44:36,005
Speaker 1: She thought she was just going to have a procedure

883
00:44:36,165 --> 00:44:39,925
Speaker 1: and then come out. When did her head turn from

884
00:44:40,925 --> 00:44:44,605
Speaker 1: the sex to wanting to tell her story about what

885
00:44:44,645 --> 00:44:47,925
Speaker 1: had happened to her as a kid and her life.

886
00:44:48,365 --> 00:44:50,925
Speaker 4: Well, Molly always wanted to tell her story and write

887
00:44:50,925 --> 00:44:53,525
Speaker 4: a book, right even before the cancer and before all

888
00:44:53,565 --> 00:44:55,765
Speaker 4: of this happened. I think she always had a drive

889
00:44:55,805 --> 00:44:58,005
Speaker 4: to share. She was a wonderful writer, but I think

890
00:44:58,325 --> 00:45:01,365
Speaker 4: was afraid to be seen, afraid to be heard, yet

891
00:45:01,525 --> 00:45:03,885
Speaker 4: desperately wanted to be seen and heard at the same time.

892
00:45:03,965 --> 00:45:07,205
Speaker 4: So that dance was going on for her. But when

893
00:45:07,205 --> 00:45:11,365
Speaker 4: she entered the hospital, by the way, you ask the

894
00:45:11,365 --> 00:45:15,125
Speaker 4: best questions. I just love you. This is so wonderful.

895
00:45:15,405 --> 00:45:18,685
Speaker 4: He's a therapy. What do I owe you? When she

896
00:45:18,845 --> 00:45:20,685
Speaker 4: entered the hospital, it was a couple of months into

897
00:45:20,685 --> 00:45:23,445
Speaker 4: her stay. I mean she was there December January, from

898
00:45:23,925 --> 00:45:27,845
Speaker 4: almost four months. There was still like a month and

899
00:45:27,885 --> 00:45:30,885
Speaker 4: a half into her hospital stay. She still thought she

900
00:45:31,005 --> 00:45:33,925
Speaker 4: was getting out and going to get better, and she

901
00:45:34,085 --> 00:45:37,765
Speaker 4: was still sort of having suitors come visit her and

902
00:45:37,845 --> 00:45:41,245
Speaker 4: watch movies in her hospital room and sextying a little bit.

903
00:45:41,285 --> 00:45:43,965
Speaker 4: I mean, she was still in the very beginning. She

904
00:45:44,085 --> 00:45:46,445
Speaker 4: was still like doing it and working it and still

905
00:45:46,445 --> 00:45:47,325
Speaker 4: holding on to that.

906
00:45:47,405 --> 00:45:50,725
Speaker 1: And then at one point a guy comes in, Did

907
00:45:50,765 --> 00:45:51,965
Speaker 1: she give me a blood job?

908
00:45:52,045 --> 00:45:55,165
Speaker 4: Like? Yeah, don't god, that's right, Yes, yes, he came

909
00:45:55,205 --> 00:45:58,405
Speaker 4: to visit. He was so handsome and so cute, and

910
00:45:58,445 --> 00:46:00,325
Speaker 4: he came to visit. And when she told me the story,

911
00:46:00,365 --> 00:46:02,965
Speaker 4: I immediately did the eye roll, which was like, Oh

912
00:46:03,005 --> 00:46:05,605
Speaker 4: my god, what a douchebag. He shows up to the hospital,

913
00:46:05,925 --> 00:46:07,965
Speaker 4: you give him oral sex, and then he's like, oh,

914
00:46:08,045 --> 00:46:11,325
Speaker 4: I'm seeing it. Later he's out. But then once I

915
00:46:11,365 --> 00:46:13,365
Speaker 4: got to know him, because he came on the podcast

916
00:46:13,365 --> 00:46:16,685
Speaker 4: as well, once I got to know him and understand

917
00:46:16,805 --> 00:46:21,525
Speaker 4: more about him, it was actually not what I thought.

918
00:46:21,685 --> 00:46:24,565
Speaker 4: He came in they snuggled up in bed. She said

919
00:46:24,605 --> 00:46:26,885
Speaker 4: he took his clothes off so that he wouldn't contaminate

920
00:46:27,685 --> 00:46:29,885
Speaker 4: the bedroom, and I thought, oh, oh, really, that's why

921
00:46:29,925 --> 00:46:32,885
Speaker 4: he took his clothes off. That's so cute. But then

922
00:46:32,925 --> 00:46:34,565
Speaker 4: after I talked to him and kind of got to

923
00:46:34,605 --> 00:46:37,245
Speaker 4: know him, I really do think that that's what he

924
00:46:37,325 --> 00:46:40,725
Speaker 4: was seeing so respectful and like kind and loving him.

925
00:46:40,725 --> 00:46:44,285
Speaker 4: When I told him that she had well, he when

926
00:46:44,285 --> 00:46:46,245
Speaker 4: we finally had the conversation, he had revealed that he

927
00:46:46,325 --> 00:46:50,285
Speaker 4: knew she had passed away. He was devastated and heartbroken.

928
00:46:50,325 --> 00:46:52,125
Speaker 4: And I think in that moment, with that conversation with

929
00:46:52,205 --> 00:46:55,925
Speaker 4: him on the podcast, I fully realized how deeply she

930
00:46:56,005 --> 00:46:59,645
Speaker 4: touched these people that she would have these sexual journeys with.

931
00:47:00,445 --> 00:47:02,725
Speaker 4: It wasn't just a blowjob in the hospital. I mean,

932
00:47:02,725 --> 00:47:05,245
Speaker 4: it's fun to say, I think it was really something

933
00:47:05,285 --> 00:47:08,925
Speaker 4: deeper and more connected, because Molly was a very special creature.

934
00:47:09,045 --> 00:47:11,445
Speaker 4: She would get you to open up and reveal your deepest,

935
00:47:11,485 --> 00:47:15,565
Speaker 4: darkest things about yourself, and she made you feel heard

936
00:47:15,645 --> 00:47:18,045
Speaker 4: and seen and safe. And so I think that's when

937
00:47:18,045 --> 00:47:21,045
Speaker 4: she started to realize, like, I have the capacity to

938
00:47:21,045 --> 00:47:23,925
Speaker 4: have an emotional and a sexual relationship at the same time.

939
00:47:23,965 --> 00:47:27,205
Speaker 4: And by that time, she wasn't getting out of the hospital.

940
00:47:27,285 --> 00:47:33,605
Speaker 1: So, yeah, you didn't expect for her to die when

941
00:47:33,605 --> 00:47:37,965
Speaker 1: you started making the podcast together, even though ironically it

942
00:47:38,045 --> 00:47:40,125
Speaker 1: was called Dying for Sex, you thought it was going

943
00:47:40,165 --> 00:47:42,805
Speaker 1: to end in a different way. How did you think

944
00:47:42,845 --> 00:47:43,445
Speaker 1: it was going to go?

945
00:47:45,125 --> 00:47:48,125
Speaker 4: So I thought that we'd do like a season two. Right,

946
00:47:48,165 --> 00:47:50,645
Speaker 4: we did season one, which was all about like the sexcapades,

947
00:47:50,645 --> 00:47:52,525
Speaker 4: and then I thought season two we would get into

948
00:47:52,565 --> 00:47:56,565
Speaker 4: my story, which is the fertility because Molly beautifully said

949
00:47:56,565 --> 00:47:59,325
Speaker 4: once like I'm fighting for my life at the exact

950
00:47:59,365 --> 00:48:02,325
Speaker 4: same time that you're fighting to make a life. And

951
00:48:02,365 --> 00:48:04,605
Speaker 4: we were going through surgeries at the same time I

952
00:48:04,645 --> 00:48:06,965
Speaker 4: was going through miscarriages. While she was in the hospital.

953
00:48:06,965 --> 00:48:09,525
Speaker 4: We were facetiming with like our ivs in I mean,

954
00:48:09,525 --> 00:48:12,485
Speaker 4: we were really going through this, and she would always

955
00:48:12,485 --> 00:48:15,245
Speaker 4: say to me, if this is your version of cancer,

956
00:48:15,485 --> 00:48:21,445
Speaker 4: and she never made me feel badly for saying. You know,

957
00:48:21,485 --> 00:48:23,285
Speaker 4: I would say, oh my god, you're dealing with cancer

958
00:48:23,325 --> 00:48:25,365
Speaker 4: and I'm just dealing with this, and she always made

959
00:48:25,365 --> 00:48:27,605
Speaker 4: it feel very much like we were going through this together.

960
00:48:28,005 --> 00:48:30,165
Speaker 4: So I thought there'd be a season too, and I

961
00:48:30,165 --> 00:48:31,805
Speaker 4: thought there'd be a season where we could talk about

962
00:48:31,845 --> 00:48:36,005
Speaker 4: the trauma, the sexual trauma, and I just, I don't know,

963
00:48:36,165 --> 00:48:38,925
Speaker 4: I thought, you know, her doctors told her like, you

964
00:48:39,085 --> 00:48:42,725
Speaker 4: have years, not decades. So in my mind, I go to, Okay,

965
00:48:42,725 --> 00:48:45,965
Speaker 4: she's got nine years, We've got nine more years together, right,

966
00:48:46,845 --> 00:48:49,125
Speaker 4: And I think she actually thought she had a good little,

967
00:48:49,565 --> 00:48:51,365
Speaker 4: you know, a chunk of time. And I think when

968
00:48:51,405 --> 00:48:53,205
Speaker 4: she went into that hospital, I don't think any of

969
00:48:53,285 --> 00:48:55,765
Speaker 4: us prepared for it to be because she had defied

970
00:48:55,805 --> 00:48:57,685
Speaker 4: so many odds. I don't think we were prepared for

971
00:48:57,725 --> 00:49:00,485
Speaker 4: that to be her last, her last hospital visit.

972
00:49:01,925 --> 00:49:03,565
Speaker 1: How did you then decide what to do with the

973
00:49:03,565 --> 00:49:04,205
Speaker 1: rest of the show.

974
00:49:04,645 --> 00:49:07,725
Speaker 4: Well, we had been trying to find someone to you know,

975
00:49:09,645 --> 00:49:12,605
Speaker 4: distribute her story, knowing that there would be a season two,

976
00:49:12,685 --> 00:49:14,565
Speaker 4: and then once she got into the hospital and I

977
00:49:14,605 --> 00:49:18,245
Speaker 4: realized she wasn't coming out. Was it was my mission

978
00:49:18,285 --> 00:49:20,485
Speaker 4: to tell her story and I didn't know how to

979
00:49:20,525 --> 00:49:23,365
Speaker 4: do it, but I just knew that I was just

980
00:49:23,765 --> 00:49:26,005
Speaker 4: maybe just going to release the episodes that we had

981
00:49:26,005 --> 00:49:29,445
Speaker 4: recorded on my YouTube channel or wherever. I just had

982
00:49:29,445 --> 00:49:32,045
Speaker 4: to get them heard. But then when I realized that

983
00:49:32,085 --> 00:49:35,885
Speaker 4: she wasn't going to be getting out and that this

984
00:49:36,085 --> 00:49:38,845
Speaker 4: was the end was much closer than I had anticipated,

985
00:49:39,485 --> 00:49:41,285
Speaker 4: I asked her if she'd be willing to record from

986
00:49:41,285 --> 00:49:43,885
Speaker 4: her hospital bed, and she was very open to it.

987
00:49:43,925 --> 00:49:46,125
Speaker 4: So we recorded a couple of episodes, just she and

988
00:49:46,165 --> 00:49:48,525
Speaker 4: I on my phone with a little microphone attached from

989
00:49:48,565 --> 00:49:53,645
Speaker 4: her bed, and then I was getting ready to release

990
00:49:53,685 --> 00:49:57,005
Speaker 4: the episodes. I believe that she was she was still here,

991
00:49:57,525 --> 00:49:59,925
Speaker 4: and I wanted to release I wanted to release the

992
00:49:59,925 --> 00:50:01,685
Speaker 4: episodes because I wanted her to know that they were

993
00:50:01,765 --> 00:50:05,005
Speaker 4: out there. I just wanted her to know. And then

994
00:50:05,565 --> 00:50:08,925
Speaker 4: I decided to send an email to Wondery, who helped

995
00:50:08,965 --> 00:50:12,365
Speaker 4: me produce the podcast and gave this thing wings. I

996
00:50:12,525 --> 00:50:14,405
Speaker 4: decided to reach out again because I hadn't heard back

997
00:50:14,445 --> 00:50:16,685
Speaker 4: from them. I thought, gosh, start not responding, Okay, I

998
00:50:16,765 --> 00:50:18,965
Speaker 4: know this is Hollywood. Nobody responds to anything in this time,

999
00:50:19,525 --> 00:50:20,845
Speaker 4: and so I gave it one more shot and I

1000
00:50:20,845 --> 00:50:22,925
Speaker 4: sent an email and I said, before I self published this,

1001
00:50:22,965 --> 00:50:26,085
Speaker 4: I just wanted to make sure you're passing on this project.

1002
00:50:26,605 --> 00:50:29,645
Speaker 4: And then the CEO of the company responded and said,

1003
00:50:29,685 --> 00:50:32,725
Speaker 4: I never got the email, and I'm so glad you

1004
00:50:32,805 --> 00:50:34,605
Speaker 4: reached back out. So I had a meeting with him,

1005
00:50:35,045 --> 00:50:37,045
Speaker 4: and he came to the hospital and met Molly on

1006
00:50:37,205 --> 00:50:42,405
Speaker 4: Valentine's Day and spent an hour with her, an hour

1007
00:50:42,525 --> 00:50:44,685
Speaker 4: or so just sitting with her and promising that he

1008
00:50:44,685 --> 00:50:47,845
Speaker 4: would tell her story. And so we worked for a

1009
00:50:47,885 --> 00:50:52,005
Speaker 4: whole year after Molly had passed to really get this

1010
00:50:52,005 --> 00:50:56,365
Speaker 4: this story told right, and we launched it almost a

1011
00:50:56,445 --> 00:51:00,125
Speaker 4: year to to her passing, almost the anniversary of her passing,

1012
00:51:00,165 --> 00:51:02,405
Speaker 4: which was felt very important to me.

1013
00:51:03,325 --> 00:51:05,685
Speaker 1: I'm not surprised that the Graves coming back in a

1014
00:51:05,725 --> 00:51:08,845
Speaker 1: new wave, because I imagine that time was like keeping

1015
00:51:08,885 --> 00:51:14,005
Speaker 1: her alive for you and keep on friendship alive. And

1016
00:51:14,045 --> 00:51:15,805
Speaker 1: now it's that, and then those that it's that in

1017
00:51:15,845 --> 00:51:18,325
Speaker 1: the world, and then you're getting everybody's feedback about it,

1018
00:51:18,405 --> 00:51:21,485
Speaker 1: and it's like, I guess the whole is there now

1019
00:51:22,645 --> 00:51:24,205
Speaker 1: when do you notice it the mice.

1020
00:51:28,205 --> 00:51:31,285
Speaker 4: In the mornings when it's quiet and everyone's asleep and

1021
00:51:31,325 --> 00:51:34,605
Speaker 4: I get ready to start my day. And a lot

1022
00:51:34,605 --> 00:51:36,405
Speaker 4: of the times it has something to do with Molly,

1023
00:51:36,605 --> 00:51:39,085
Speaker 4: Like she wanted to be the center of my universe

1024
00:51:39,125 --> 00:51:41,605
Speaker 4: so often, and now she's gone, And I'm like, girl,

1025
00:51:41,645 --> 00:51:43,725
Speaker 4: you the center you are. I am been telling your

1026
00:51:43,725 --> 00:51:45,925
Speaker 4: story for years now. I've got her book next to

1027
00:51:45,965 --> 00:51:48,965
Speaker 4: me or pictures, I wear her necklace. I'm like, she's

1028
00:51:49,165 --> 00:51:52,525
Speaker 4: I feel closer to her now than I really ever have.

1029
00:51:53,045 --> 00:51:58,765
Speaker 1: And she's on your one time she did. She really

1030
00:51:58,805 --> 00:52:00,645
Speaker 1: won't leave you alone. She's obsessed with you.

1031
00:52:01,685 --> 00:52:04,525
Speaker 4: I don't think I've told this to anybody, but where

1032
00:52:04,565 --> 00:52:07,565
Speaker 4: she shipped on me the first time with the seagull,

1033
00:52:07,725 --> 00:52:10,805
Speaker 4: where I said I released her ash. I said, show

1034
00:52:10,845 --> 00:52:12,885
Speaker 4: me a sign, like a real sign, not like a

1035
00:52:12,885 --> 00:52:16,285
Speaker 4: butterfly or dragonfly, like show me. The bird crept all

1036
00:52:16,325 --> 00:52:18,125
Speaker 4: over my back, so much so that we had to

1037
00:52:18,205 --> 00:52:20,965
Speaker 4: use multiple towels to wipe it off. It was disgusting.

1038
00:52:21,045 --> 00:52:24,285
Speaker 4: My boy, my fiance was dry heaving. I was like, Moly.

1039
00:52:25,245 --> 00:52:27,725
Speaker 4: And then we went back in May, we went back

1040
00:52:27,765 --> 00:52:31,965
Speaker 4: to that same spot and we got engaged there and

1041
00:52:32,725 --> 00:52:35,445
Speaker 4: right after we proposed, I set my camera up because

1042
00:52:35,445 --> 00:52:38,565
Speaker 4: it's quarantine, so we're in masks and totally social distancing,

1043
00:52:38,605 --> 00:52:40,605
Speaker 4: and we set up the camera to take a picture

1044
00:52:40,605 --> 00:52:43,445
Speaker 4: on the timer and I pressed, you know, take the picture,

1045
00:52:43,445 --> 00:52:45,525
Speaker 4: and the photo goes and goes. We took like ten

1046
00:52:45,565 --> 00:52:48,525
Speaker 4: in a row, and all of a sudden, I look

1047
00:52:48,605 --> 00:52:51,285
Speaker 4: over in a bird poops right next to us, I mean,

1048
00:52:51,365 --> 00:52:54,045
Speaker 4: splatters all over the concrete next to us. And I

1049
00:52:54,205 --> 00:52:56,685
Speaker 4: just looked at my fiance and I was like, she

1050
00:52:56,965 --> 00:52:57,725
Speaker 4: did it again.

1051
00:52:58,045 --> 00:52:59,165
Speaker 1: She's just right there.

1052
00:52:59,205 --> 00:53:00,445
Speaker 4: I'm like, she's even.

1053
00:53:04,525 --> 00:53:06,925
Speaker 1: And that is a sense of humor that you two share.

1054
00:53:07,085 --> 00:53:10,285
Speaker 1: It's just so perfect, so gross and more and twisted.

1055
00:53:10,325 --> 00:53:12,885
Speaker 1: But I feel her in the mornings and as she is,

1056
00:53:13,205 --> 00:53:15,445
Speaker 1: I mean, she guides me and my choices. She guides

1057
00:53:15,485 --> 00:53:17,725
Speaker 1: me when I'm telling her story. I feel her actually

1058
00:53:17,845 --> 00:53:20,085
Speaker 1: right now with you and me. I feel her in

1059
00:53:20,125 --> 00:53:22,805
Speaker 1: this interview. It's but it comes up, and when it

1060
00:53:22,805 --> 00:53:24,165
Speaker 1: comes up, I can't breathe.

1061
00:53:25,125 --> 00:53:29,685
Speaker 4: It's hard. But this is exactly how she wanted to

1062
00:53:29,685 --> 00:53:32,365
Speaker 4: be remembered. So I feel very honored to be able

1063
00:53:32,365 --> 00:53:33,125
Speaker 4: to tell her story.

1064
00:53:33,965 --> 00:53:36,885
Speaker 1: Oh, Nikki and I had a little cry after the

1065
00:53:36,925 --> 00:53:41,125
Speaker 1: microphones were turned off. In that interview, we both very

1066
00:53:41,205 --> 00:53:45,725
Speaker 1: much felt that Molly was in the room with us,

1067
00:53:45,805 --> 00:53:47,485
Speaker 1: even though we weren't in the room with each other.

1068
00:53:48,205 --> 00:53:52,125
Speaker 1: We kind of just felt her around, and we felt

1069
00:53:52,165 --> 00:53:53,925
Speaker 1: it in the connection that we kind of had with

1070
00:53:54,005 --> 00:53:56,885
Speaker 1: each other. It was really interesting, you know when that happens.

1071
00:53:56,925 --> 00:53:58,805
Speaker 1: Sometimes you just talk to someone and you just feel

1072
00:53:58,805 --> 00:54:01,285
Speaker 1: like you've known them for a really long time. I

1073
00:54:01,325 --> 00:54:05,565
Speaker 1: did not get shut on by Bird, so she wasn't

1074
00:54:05,605 --> 00:54:07,245
Speaker 1: that close to me, but maybe that was because I

1075
00:54:07,285 --> 00:54:10,005
Speaker 1: was inside and not on a beach. You are no

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00:54:10,085 --> 00:54:13,565
Speaker 1: doubt going to want to hear more of Nicki's show

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00:54:13,765 --> 00:54:16,485
Speaker 1: with Molly Dying for Sex. You are going to want

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00:54:16,525 --> 00:54:18,925
Speaker 1: to dive deep. You're going to want to know what

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00:54:19,485 --> 00:54:22,365
Speaker 1: Molly looks like, what Nicki looks like. That's certainly what

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00:54:22,405 --> 00:54:24,405
Speaker 1: I did when I started listening to their show. And

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00:54:24,445 --> 00:54:28,245
Speaker 1: then I found the Instagram account that Molly had created

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00:54:28,725 --> 00:54:31,325
Speaker 1: with all the sexy selfies that she used to take

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00:54:31,445 --> 00:54:34,565
Speaker 1: and send to people and just take for herself. So

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00:54:34,605 --> 00:54:36,645
Speaker 1: we will put all those links in the show notes,

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00:54:37,125 --> 00:54:40,085
Speaker 1: and the other thing that you'll appreciate if you've listened

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00:54:40,165 --> 00:54:43,005
Speaker 1: to the Dying for Sex podcast, is how much Molly

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00:54:43,045 --> 00:54:46,565
Speaker 1: wanted to finish her book before she died, and she

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00:54:46,685 --> 00:54:49,965
Speaker 1: did and now you can buy it, and I've read

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00:54:50,005 --> 00:54:53,405
Speaker 1: it and it is She's a really good writer. It's

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00:54:53,445 --> 00:54:56,845
Speaker 1: a great book. Molly's book is called Screw Cancer The

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00:54:56,925 --> 00:54:59,325
Speaker 1: Coming Whole. You can get it on Kindle. All the

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00:54:59,365 --> 00:55:04,405
Speaker 1: details are at dyingfoseexpodcast dot com and you can follow

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00:55:04,485 --> 00:55:09,885
Speaker 1: Nicki at Nicky Boyer that's Ni double Ki boy Er

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00:55:10,165 --> 00:55:13,925
Speaker 1: on Instagram. I hope you enjoyed this episode of No Filter.

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00:55:14,005 --> 00:55:16,565
Speaker 1: If you did, it would be a huge help to

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00:55:16,605 --> 00:55:19,245
Speaker 1: me and everyone involved in making this show. If you

1097
00:55:19,325 --> 00:55:22,205
Speaker 1: went and left a review wherever you get your podcast,

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00:55:22,285 --> 00:55:25,045
Speaker 1: that helps people discover it and it helps us keep

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00:55:25,045 --> 00:55:28,325
Speaker 1: on making it. This episode was produced by Leah Porges.

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Speaker 1: The executive producer of No Filter is Eliza Ratliffe. I'm

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00:55:31,845 --> 00:55:34,845
Speaker 1: Meya Friedman and I'll see you on mamama dot com

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Speaker 1: dot au.