Speaker 1: This episode of 456 club is made in partnership with
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Speaker 1: and wellness needs. Visit Priceline Pharmacy in store or online
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Speaker 1: Have you ever felt invisible when I go shopping for clothes? Now,
Speaker 1: I've noticed that the shop assistants don't come and ask
Speaker 1: me if I need help. I always have to seek help.
Speaker 1: It's almost like I'm invisible.
Speaker 2: Being single and childless can make a woman feel invisible.
Speaker 2: You start to get left out of your friendship groups
Speaker 2: when your friends start to couple up and you're the
Speaker 2: only single one I noticed when I
Speaker 2: with my daughter in her mid twenties, men don't look
Speaker 2: at me anymore.
Speaker 1: They look at her. Do you remember the day? You
Speaker 1: first felt like that the day you disappeared or are
Speaker 1: you feeling more relevant than ever in your forties? Fifties
Speaker 1: and sixties. This is 456 club. The show that helps
Speaker 1: women in their forties, fifties and sixties, feel seen, heard
Speaker 1: and better about everything.
Speaker 1: I'm Nelda Jacobs and you will usually find me on
Speaker 1: the couch at studio 10 at 10 am from Monday
Speaker 1: to Friday. Sometimes you might see a pony on the couch. Oh,
Speaker 1: I know. It was so exciting. You went to my
Speaker 1: work the other day you went there. I wasn't, I,
Speaker 1: I bring your friend to work somewhere else. You were
Speaker 1: at my work on studio 10. How was it? You
Speaker 1: were fantastic.
Speaker 1: I tell you, I was so nervous and it's live TV,
Speaker 1: isn't it? You were talking about this podcast? I was
Speaker 1: talking about this podcast and you and how much I
Speaker 1: loved you. And we talked about all sorts of things
Speaker 1: including dryness down there, which was interesting having Tristan your
Speaker 1: co-host just have to sit there while the other three
Speaker 1: ladies on the couch talked about it. He was just
Speaker 1: taking it and then I asked you on the party,
Speaker 1: you also talk about being invisible and your reply was, well,
Speaker 1: we haven't talked about it yet,
Speaker 1: which brings us to today. But yes, we are here
Speaker 1: today to talk about feeling invisible. Later in this episode,
Speaker 1: we'll hear from women in the 456 club who are
Speaker 1: all too familiar with feeling invisible. We'll hear how it
Speaker 1: impacts
Speaker 1: at them and how they navigated it to take back power.
Speaker 1: And we'll hear from Carly Lyon who runs the brand
Speaker 1: in New. She specializes in helping women rebrand themselves and
Speaker 1: making them feel relevant again. But first, Keith, is this
Speaker 1: something you've felt or experienced before
Speaker 1: feeling invisible? Look to be honest, not in my forties.
Speaker 1: I'm at late forties. Now. 48 I felt quite visible
Speaker 1: in my thirties. I definitely felt invisible. I was married
Speaker 1: to a high profile sportsman. And, um, you know, let
Speaker 1: me tell you when you sort of walked into a
Speaker 1: room of chaps at an event or something, I could
Speaker 1: have been stood there like in a bikini and people
Speaker 1: would have just pushed
Speaker 1: me out of the way to talk to my husband.
Speaker 1: So invisible that one time when we were at a
Speaker 1: stadium and some guys came over and wanted a photo,
Speaker 1: one of them sat on me to get closer to
Speaker 1: my ex-husband to get the photo. I was like, am
Speaker 1: I even here? Oh, my goodness, Keith. I never do
Speaker 1: to you. It was just bizarre. I don't know. I,
Speaker 1: it made me laugh. I used to sort of think,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, we've got like a real
Speaker 1: but 12 o'clock we got two incoming. So I'd be
Speaker 1: like you walk into a room though and heads turn.
Speaker 1: That's the presence that you have. Oh, do I say
Speaker 1: that again? Say it again. Well, my head turns. I really,
Speaker 1: because I really tall and I bounce like when I
Speaker 1: walk I think you just have, you just look really
Speaker 1: cool as you walk in. Like I arrived
Speaker 1: as I've just tripped up getting out of the list.
Speaker 1: But I like the way you make me sound. Is
Speaker 1: that your profession? In your professional life. You're a publicist. Yes.
Speaker 1: So does that I feed into that as well. I
Speaker 1: think you've hit the nail on the head because the,
Speaker 1: my entire career you do have to be invisible. You know,
Speaker 1: you're with a superstar or a singer or an actress.
Speaker 1: Whoever you're presenting, you do have to be there but
Speaker 1: invisible at all times whilst
Speaker 1: control. So, yeah. So maybe I just learned the art
Speaker 1: of camouflage, which can be a blessing sometimes I know
Speaker 1: it can be good, but I'm back out now. Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm wearing loud red colors. Tell me, what about you?
Speaker 1: Have you ever felt invisible? Well, like you as well
Speaker 1: when I was younger. So I'm the youngest of five
Speaker 1: girls in my family. So as I was growing up,
Speaker 1: I always was
Speaker 1: for like somebody always did the speaking for me, I
Speaker 1: never actually was called upon to speak. I know that
Speaker 1: sounds odd and I was always kind of the cute one,
Speaker 1: you know, and so nothing's really expected of the cute
Speaker 1: one and everyone else feels seen, but I kind of
Speaker 1: feel like I kind of just slipped under the radar,
Speaker 1: but now I feel more seen than ever because I'm
Speaker 1: sharing opinions and speaking and being looked upon for wisdom,
Speaker 1: you know,
Speaker 1: I think you're very wise. Yeah, which I think that's
Speaker 1: something that comes with age and especially in first nations
Speaker 1: culture where you reach a point where you're called auntie.
Speaker 1: So I'm called auntie. I'm an auntie now, I didn't
Speaker 1: know that. So with that comes a level of respect
Speaker 1: that comes with age and lived experience. So for those reasons,
Speaker 1: I feel more seen than ever. So, Kath, there's this
Speaker 1: unwritten rule and it's become a bit of a joke
Speaker 1: that women have got to be 39 or younger to
Speaker 1: make it in TV. So we have this joke that
Speaker 1: we're forever 39. And I think Anne used it on
Speaker 1: the day that you were at studio T S and
Speaker 1: we were like 456 club. And she's like, well, I'm
Speaker 1: not 48 or something. I mean, she looks absolutely fabulous.
Speaker 1: But
Speaker 1: I was, and, and I was told that before I
Speaker 1: decided to move to Sydney from Perth, I was already,
Speaker 1: I think 43 or something. And I was asked by
Speaker 1: someone I was getting advice from and he who was
Speaker 1: in the industry for a long time, not working at
Speaker 1: channel 10, by the way, he said, so, how old
Speaker 1: are you? And I said 43 he said, oh, it's
Speaker 1: getting a bit old. Um, they say women have to
Speaker 1: be 39. And so I was like, oh, wow, I
Speaker 1: just experience that, that thing.
Speaker 1: And so then I came over and I'm like, looking
Speaker 1: around at all the women at channel 10, they're all
Speaker 1: like
Speaker 1: my age or older and thinking like they're running the network.
Speaker 1: These are women who are running the network. And it's like,
Speaker 1: excuse me, because all I can see are women in
Speaker 1: their absolute prime leading all the conversations that we're having
Speaker 1: as a nation, which is fabulous. I mean, even being
Speaker 1: part of this podcast is empowering, isn't it? I think?
Speaker 1: And it sort of sets the agenda for everyone to
Speaker 1: talk about aging because we're all aging and it's actually
Speaker 1: not that bad. So, get on board. He sounds like
Speaker 1: a dinosaur.
Speaker 1: We're gonna be talking to Cathy o'brien who's in her
Speaker 1: fifties and a writer and she's going to share with
Speaker 1: us her invisibility experiences, Cathy. Do you remember the day?
Speaker 1: You first felt invisible?
Speaker 2: Look, being a mum, you feel invisible a lot? I
Speaker 2: reckon I felt invisible when my son was born. All
Speaker 2: of a sudden the focus was on him
Speaker 2: and I hastily changed my name from my maiden name
Speaker 2: to my married name when I got married. And then
Speaker 2: all of a sudden when I had this little baby
Speaker 2: in my arms, I was like, oh, hang on. I'm
Speaker 2: nobody now. Like I'm just somebody's mum and I'm somebody's
Speaker 2: wife and who am I in all of this? So
Speaker 2: it probably was like a slow burn 22 years ago
Speaker 2: when my son was born
Speaker 2: and then my daughters were born three days after my birthday.
Speaker 2: And I can remember my mother-in-law saying to me not
Speaker 2: long after my twins were born.
Speaker 2: Oh, well, I hope you enjoyed this year's birthday because
Speaker 2: you'll never have another one to celebrate again. And I
Speaker 2: looked at her and I was like, oh, ah, I
Speaker 2: don't think so. It's my birthday. So, yeah. Oh,
Speaker 1: listen to someone whose birthday is on Christmas Day. Once
Speaker 1: I became a mum, I was like, oh, it's gonna
Speaker 1: have to be about the kid for a bit, isn't it?
Speaker 1: Why is your birthday on Christmas?
Speaker 1: Yes. How did you feel then when your birthdays rolled around?
Speaker 1: Just all the gifts on the one day? I love
Speaker 1: it because generally it's a day that most people are
Speaker 1: happy but Cathy, do you have to remain vigilant that
Speaker 1: you don't slip into that sort of losing your identity?
Speaker 1: Because when we get married, we're told to take on
Speaker 1: our husband's last names, like in a traditional heteronormative sense,
Speaker 1: I don't really think, oh, I can retain my name.
Speaker 1: I can retain my identity. How do you then reclaim
Speaker 1: your
Speaker 2: identity for the last, I don't know, 18 years. I
Speaker 2: really didn't. It was a very difficult process. I was
Speaker 2: lost in the identity of the family and the identity
Speaker 2: of being a mother to three Children, a mother to
Speaker 2: twins because that's something different again
Speaker 2: and being my husband's wife. And it wasn't really until
Speaker 2: I had my breakdown, I guess, with a lot of
Speaker 2: work on myself and a lot of support from my
Speaker 2: medical team and my mental health team
Speaker 2: working out who am I in all of that? And
Speaker 2: that kind of morphed into looking for something that I
Speaker 2: wanted to do that made me happy in life. And, yeah,
Speaker 2: so it's really in the, only in the last kind
Speaker 2: of few years, three or four years, maybe that I've
Speaker 2: started to think about who am I in my family,
Speaker 2: family and who am I in this world? How did
Speaker 1: it feel when you say you felt invisible?
Speaker 2: Nothing was about me. Nothing at all was about me.
Speaker 2: It was always, if I wanted to go to work,
Speaker 2: it was about how can I do this in the
Speaker 2: smallest and the quietest possible way that doesn't impact the
Speaker 2: family because we needed
Speaker 2: me to be there to pick the kids up or
Speaker 2: to take them to dance or to run them to
Speaker 2: football training or medical appointments or whatever. So losing myself
Speaker 2: in all of that, I really didn't think that that
Speaker 2: would happen. I thought that I would have a career
Speaker 2: and I would balance having a career and being a
Speaker 2: mother and you know, being the best friend and being
Speaker 2: the best wife and all of those things. And
Speaker 2: you know, I'm a total gen X baby. We were
Speaker 2: told go to school, get a degree. You can have
Speaker 2: a great career, you can have a family, you can
Speaker 2: do all of these things, but they left out the
Speaker 2: little bit, the little caveat at the end, you can't
Speaker 2: have it all at the same time, you can, but
Speaker 2: not all at the same time.
Speaker 1: Kay and cat, there's one thing that strikes me
Speaker 1: out of this and, and is that heteronormative has a
Speaker 1: lot to answer for. We slip into gendered roles, don't we?
Speaker 1: And societal expectations of us no matter what we're told
Speaker 1: exactly what you've said, Cathy, like go and achieve all
Speaker 1: your dreams, you know, the world is your oyster. But
Speaker 1: when society expects that you will be the primary caregiver of,
Speaker 1: you know, your Children and then
Speaker 1: potentially aging parents as well. Like you said, you know,
Speaker 1: you've got to keep yourself small to be able to
Speaker 1: go out and achieve the things that you want. So
Speaker 1: that doesn't upset the household too much. I mean, everything
Speaker 1: else should be able to fit around you so that
Speaker 1: you can go and do these things because it would
Speaker 1: make you a better person, which then your Children will
Speaker 1: look up to. I think this is wild
Speaker 2: 100%. I completely agree with you. No, it's ridiculous to
Speaker 2: think that
Speaker 2: that so many women think that they need to be
Speaker 2: small so that they can not impact the family or
Speaker 2: they want to have their career. But how do they
Speaker 2: juggle this coming through? That was really, really hard and
Speaker 2: trying to get back into the workforce when you've been
Speaker 2: out of the workforce for 15 years is ridiculously difficult.
Speaker 1: Is that where you notice the age adding to the
Speaker 1: invisibility and difficulty of that
Speaker 2: landscape, 100% and the amount of people including recruiters, they say. So,
Speaker 2: can you give us a reference? I was like, well,
Speaker 2: I can give you my last job, which was in
Speaker 2: 2006 and this is in 2000 and,
Speaker 2: and 18. And they're like, well, that's no
Speaker 1: good but Cathy all those unpaid jobs that you were
Speaker 1: doing at home and probably in the school community, you
Speaker 1: can't necessarily put that on your CV. Can you? Because
Speaker 1: it doesn't really count for anything in the eyes of employers.
Speaker 1: It was
Speaker 2: really, really challenging. I did do a lot of volunteer
Speaker 2: work with model, both association and one of my
Speaker 2: colleagues who I sat on the national board with, she
Speaker 2: actually was a referee for me. Ultimately, I did have
Speaker 2: to put down my volunteer work. And that was really
Speaker 2: hard because it's like, well, can't you just give me
Speaker 2: a chance? And they're like, oh, but you're so old,
Speaker 2: what have you been doing? It's like, yeah, I know.
Speaker 2: But I've been raising humans. Like, that's a big deal, right?
Speaker 2: Like
Speaker 2: raising a human is a very important job.
Speaker 1: I'd love to explore the idea that there is power
Speaker 1: in being invisible sometimes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, 100%. I think that when you
Speaker 2: are invisible and when people don't expect anything of you,
Speaker 2: people underestimate you and then all of a sudden you'll
Speaker 2: do something amazing at work. Or you might do something
Speaker 2: with your friends or whatever and everybody has really underestimated
Speaker 2: you along the way. So when you're watching, you get to,
Speaker 2: I don't know, you get to take a lot more in,
Speaker 2: you get to listen, you get to
Speaker 2: get all of the input, you get to take all
Speaker 2: of that information on board because no-one's expecting anything from
Speaker 2: you and they tell you a lot of things as well.
Speaker 2: That's what I find. I find that so many people
Speaker 2: will come to me and tell me all sorts of
Speaker 2: information that probably they shouldn't share with me. Then I
Speaker 2: use my powers for good. My little invisibility powers for
Speaker 2: good and go oh toddle off and do this or
Speaker 2: do that. And,
Speaker 2: and you can sometimes have real influence and you know,
Speaker 2: you can shape conversations when people don't even really realize
Speaker 2: that that's where it came from.
Speaker 1: So Sandra is about to join us. Now, she lives
Speaker 1: in regional New South Wales and was 56 when she
Speaker 1: was made redundant. After a company restructure. Six months later,
Speaker 1: she went for her first interview and sadly, this was
Speaker 1: the first time she's actually felt invisible. Yes or worthless.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Or pass your expiry date. So when have you
Speaker 1: felt like that? I had an interview at an accountancy
Speaker 1: firm four years ago. Not quite. And during the interview,
Speaker 1: they were sort of leading sort of asking questions, you know,
Speaker 1: about how long do you think you'll stay in?
Speaker 1: I thought, hm, shouldn't really ask these sort of questions.
Speaker 1: But anyhow, I sort of answered. I said, oh, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I usually give a good five years or,
Speaker 1: or something and maybe even longer. And then when the
Speaker 1: person rang to say that I didn't get the job,
Speaker 1: they said they wanted someone younger because I was the
Speaker 1: same age as the person I was going to be
Speaker 1: eventually replacing and would be retiring at the same age
Speaker 1: at the same time.
Speaker 1: And I thought, well, when this person knew me, I
Speaker 1: considered him a family friend to one of the other
Speaker 1: girls on the interview panel, went to school with me.
Speaker 1: So she would have known how old I was. Why
Speaker 1: did you waste my time interviewing me and then telling
Speaker 1: me I was too old Sandra. How old were you
Speaker 1: at the time? Not quite 56. Oh, you were a baby.
Speaker 1: The thing is right. Ok. Let's ask you, what were
Speaker 1: you angry about?
Speaker 1: Sort of been written off that someone might think that
Speaker 1: I didn't know when I was going to retire. So
Speaker 1: they sort of made up presumption that I was going
Speaker 1: to retire at the same time. This other person was.
Speaker 1: And I thought, well, who's to say I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: work until I'm 66. So I'm older. I wouldn't even
Speaker 1: call you middle aged care change in you at that age. Funny,
Speaker 1: you should say that I've had one
Speaker 1: excellent. The thing that I was angry about was that
Speaker 1: when you ask people, you know, how long you've been
Speaker 1: in your job for or whatever? Like, and I've been
Speaker 1: at channel 10 for 23 years. It's, it's a really
Speaker 1: long time. I started to get embarrassed because I was
Speaker 1: in the same job for such a long time because
Speaker 1: everybody
Speaker 1: moves on after a, just a number of years and
Speaker 1: younger people have career changes after like, five years. So
Speaker 1: for them to, like, I'm offended on your behalf that
Speaker 1: they would expect that you wouldn't be in the job
Speaker 1: for very long because you go off and retire. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I thought, well, no one knows exactly when
Speaker 1: they're going to, like, depends on your health and circumstance too,
Speaker 1: but I certainly had no plans of retiring before 60
Speaker 1: and I'm 60 now and I don't have any
Speaker 1: plans to retire before 63 still. So I could have
Speaker 1: done easily five years, eight years, probably. But anyway, they
Speaker 1: decided that because they were wanting someone to replace this
Speaker 1: person who was the same age. Well, don't damn will
Speaker 1: interview me then. You know how old I am? I
Speaker 1: feel like we're gonna have a Julia Roberts moment towards
Speaker 1: the end of this conversation with the, you going back
Speaker 1: in the shop with your bags going big mistake feeling
Speaker 1: that coming.
Speaker 1: Did this knock your confidence? So when you had to
Speaker 1: apply for a job after that? Did it knock your
Speaker 1: confidence or did you think, hey, screw you. Well, I
Speaker 1: thought most people you're going to have an interview with
Speaker 1: won't have a clue how old you are anyway. Unless
Speaker 1: you advertise it. It's just that it was some people
Speaker 1: I happen to know in this case, I got some
Speaker 1: temp work at the local hospital and then I was
Speaker 1: there for three years. And did you feel visible?
Speaker 1: Those jobs? Yes. Yes, I felt no problem at all.
Speaker 1: I like that. Now, you've just turned 60 and five
Speaker 1: months ago you started a new career in an industry
Speaker 1: you've always wanted to work in. This is your Julia
Speaker 1: Roberts moment. Sandra. How does it feel? Amazing? Amazing. Yes. Travel. Oh,
Speaker 1: so good company who does tours in the Outback? And
Speaker 1: I do their rooming list. So for all the tours
Speaker 1: that they do, if you want a bed, your name
Speaker 1: needs to be on that rooming list. So, um, very busy,
Speaker 1: very busy and no retirement in sight. Absolutely not. So, Sandra,
Speaker 1: I really hope this hasn't happened to other people. But
Speaker 1: what is your advice to others who do experience this
Speaker 1: sort of a thing? I'd just say keep trying, essentially,
Speaker 1: keep trying. Not everybody thinks like that. Obviously just
Speaker 1: keep hanging in there. I always think up comeback lines
Speaker 1: way after the fact. Is there anything that you would
Speaker 1: like to say to them if you were in the
Speaker 1: room with them again. Now that you've had some time
Speaker 1: to think about, we're gonna have to beat this. I'd say, well,
Speaker 1: I went to school with you. Why did you interview
Speaker 1: me and we've been family friends for 30 years. Why
Speaker 1: did you interview me when you thought I was too old?
Speaker 1: I'd put it back on them. That's fabulous. And also
Speaker 1: look at how it's ended. I'm a big believer in
Speaker 1: the universe. Like you've ended up doing something that you've
Speaker 1: always wanted to do. Love that, love that. I hope
Speaker 1: one day you can turn the tables on them, Sandra
Speaker 1: and give them some of their own medicine.
Speaker 1: I mean, we like to take revenge, but I feel
Speaker 1: like we don't mind a little bit of revenge doing.
Speaker 1: I hope sometimes they might have some trouble or some
Speaker 1: loved ones who might want some trouble. But they'll be like, oh, yeah. No,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. There's nothing for you. Computers, Sandra. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for taking the time to share your story
Speaker 1: with us. No, no worries. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: How much do we love Sandra? She was fantastic. She
Speaker 1: was fantastic. I loved her. But also just to have
Speaker 1: such a positive outlook on life and think, you know, well,
Speaker 1: you didn't deserve me and I won in the end. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: she's having a great time now. She's into a career
Speaker 1: that she never thought she'd have that she wants brilliant.
Speaker 1: And that office can remain miserable. But, yeah, living her
Speaker 1: best life. Exactly. Here's to more Sandra.
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Speaker 1: Now we're joined by Rose from Melbourne. She's 43. She's
Speaker 1: single and doesn't have Children and that's why she feels invisible. Rose.
Speaker 1: Have you ever felt invisible? Oh, probably like the last
Speaker 1: 10 years for me because I'm single, no kids. So
Speaker 1: I kind of don't fit in with my friends and
Speaker 1: then
Speaker 1: with people at work. So yeah, what do you mean?
Speaker 1: Usually you hear parents say it's the other way around
Speaker 1: that as soon as they have kids, they stop being
Speaker 1: invited to things by their single friends or you know,
Speaker 1: they kind of overlooked for things because they have kids.
Speaker 1: You're finding it the opposite when they coupled up. It
Speaker 1: wasn't too bad. It was just sort of, I guess
Speaker 1: more
Speaker 1: once the last friend sort of got married and then, yeah,
Speaker 1: it felt outside that because they would all catch up
Speaker 1: without me. And then I find out later and then
Speaker 1: once I started having kids, so I just found out
Speaker 1: that they were pregnant a lot after the fact of
Speaker 1: everyone else. So. Yeah. Wow. That must have been hurtful.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like lining up for a royal show
Speaker 1: ride and you have to go two by two because
Speaker 1: you are on your own. You can't ride. No, you can't.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's rough. Ah, I mean, I've, I've experienced that
Speaker 1: certainly as a single person, you know, that friends have
Speaker 1: had dinner parties and get togethers instead of being the
Speaker 1: fifth or seventh chair. I've just seen on Instagram. So Rose. I,
Speaker 1: I certainly know how that feels. Are you left wondering
Speaker 1: why is this happening to me?
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I don't really like to bring it up
Speaker 1: because then I think, oh, maybe it's just, I'm reading
Speaker 1: too much into it or, like, I remember talking to
Speaker 1: someone about it and they're like, well, they probably just
Speaker 1: feel awkward having me there as a single person. I
Speaker 1: was like, ok.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's an interesting way of looking at it. So Rose,
Speaker 1: you're feeling invisible from people. You know, but what about people?
Speaker 1: You don't know, what's it like when you walk into
Speaker 1: a room or you, you know, you're ordering something at
Speaker 1: a restaurant or, you know, you, you're at a public place,
Speaker 1: do you feel invisible then?
Speaker 1: No, not then. But if you're gone to something specific or,
Speaker 1: and then you get asked around, you know, do you
Speaker 1: have kids like that? Whole conversation starts right. And then
Speaker 1: you go, no. And then I've had people at some
Speaker 1: places just sort of turn around and then go and
Speaker 1: talk to someone else. You need
Speaker 1: my friends, nobody likes their Children. I know everyone will
Speaker 1: be really happy to hang out with your rose. And
Speaker 1: then yeah, so it can be a little awkward, I guess.
Speaker 1: And then there's, you know, a lot of, I guess
Speaker 1: in especially social media, you just see a lot of
Speaker 1: things around moms and
Speaker 1: how important their role is and that type of thing
Speaker 1: and then you just feel like things that you do
Speaker 1: aren't so important. And I mean, and you hear any politicians,
Speaker 1: for example, like every budget speech, working families, working families,
Speaker 1: working families. So I'm sitting here going please have inclusive
Speaker 1: language around. It's not just working families, single people that
Speaker 1: are being hurt or couples. So, you know, there's
Speaker 1: impacting the economy that aren't just for a particular section
Speaker 1: of our society. That is so true. That's a really
Speaker 1: good point. But you sound like someone who's really positive
Speaker 1: and that you're not just sort of sat in there. So,
Speaker 1: what are the other ways that you've maybe taken your
Speaker 1: power back?
Speaker 1: So, I got a couple of friends who, um, have
Speaker 1: either got older kids or, you know, there's a couple
Speaker 1: who don't have any, you know, they chose not to
Speaker 1: kind of just then look at things and I think, well,
Speaker 1: some people, they're just coming from their own perspective, right?
Speaker 1: Like
Speaker 1: they're in that particular mode of, you know, being a
Speaker 1: mother and they look at that and go, well, this
Speaker 1: is the most important thing that they're probably doing and
Speaker 1: it's probably the language that people use. What would you
Speaker 1: say to someone who's listening, who might now want to
Speaker 1: sort of change the way they speak to some of
Speaker 1: their friends who are in a similar situation to you,
Speaker 1: I think just be a bit more inclusive
Speaker 1: in it and not assume that because they don't have
Speaker 1: kids that they're off having this massive, wonderful, beautiful life
Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, we still have
Speaker 1: to work, we have our mortgages. Like I haven't had
Speaker 1: a holiday in years, but even pre COVID, right? And
Speaker 1: that's just because you have
Speaker 1: commitments and you've got work commitments. So, so like, you know,
Speaker 1: you're going out every single night in a bar, living
Speaker 1: it up. So just being inclusive with your friends and
Speaker 1: reach out to them. So when I was in my
Speaker 1: early twenties. So I nearly died. Like I had an
Speaker 1: antic reaction
Speaker 1: and I made it to hospital just in time and
Speaker 1: I was really good. Like about the, the dying part,
Speaker 1: I reconciled that in the moment, which was fine. And
Speaker 1: then it's just recently that I thought what's really my
Speaker 1: purpose because if I died in that moment, it's not
Speaker 1: like there are Children who would never have been born.
Speaker 1: So there's not like a, you know, like that sliding
Speaker 1: doors moment. And I just thought, oh, well, because that
Speaker 1: whole motherhood part that people talk about and how it's
Speaker 1: so important. And I thought, oh, is that meaning that
Speaker 1: my life is not worth anything? So sorry, I'm just
Speaker 1: a bit. It makes me a little bit sad
Speaker 1: when I think about it. It can be difficult when
Speaker 1: everyone just talks about this
Speaker 1: life that they have and how awesome it is and
Speaker 1: these Children that they have
Speaker 1: and then when you don't have that, that's powerful stuff rose.
Speaker 1: You know, and I think mothers don't always talk about
Speaker 1: how it isn't all the things that we're told it
Speaker 1: will be. And sometimes it's difficult to disassociate yourself from
Speaker 1: this role when you're also, you know, a person in
Speaker 1: your own. Right? I suppose.
Speaker 1: So. I think there is a lot of Hallmark moments
Speaker 1: around things like motherhood when the reality, either way, whether
Speaker 1: you are or not is, is very layered, isn't it? Yeah.
Speaker 1: All the emotions that you're feeling are so valid. We
Speaker 1: really appreciate you being so open. Yeah. And being vulnerable
Speaker 1: because this stuff's not easy to talk about. No, that's ok.
Speaker 1: I think what was most interesting about Rose is that
Speaker 1: she felt invisible amongst people that she knows that she's
Speaker 1: known for a long time and as soon as he
Speaker 1: turns a certain age and they grow apart by the sounds.
Speaker 1: But just because of life,
Speaker 1: we're joined by Carly Lyon. She's a personal brand coach
Speaker 1: and runs the brand in you Carlie. You work with
Speaker 1: women in their forties and beyond every day. So what
Speaker 1: would you say are some of the most common concerns
Speaker 1: people are facing in this era of their lives.
Speaker 1: So I'm going to answer that with a story. So
Speaker 1: a client of mine that I was working with had
Speaker 1: just gone through a bit of a career change and
Speaker 1: she was wanting to work on her personal brand. And
Speaker 1: we were talking about all the different ways that she
Speaker 1: might put herself out there. And she said to me, well,
Speaker 1: I'm almost turning 50 and the reality is nobody wants
Speaker 1: to look at or listen to an old lady.
Speaker 1: And that to me showed where her mindset was at.
Speaker 1: And that is really the perfect example of what a
Speaker 1: lot of these women, you know, 40 plus the biggest
Speaker 1: struggle when it comes to them being visible and being
Speaker 1: seen that is really where it starts, Carlie. Is it
Speaker 1: her that can't look at herself or is that her
Speaker 1: perception of other people not being able to look at?
Speaker 1: What is it 100%? So it, to me, what that
Speaker 1: showed me was she had this fundamental belief that now
Speaker 1: that she was over a certain age that she didn't
Speaker 1: look good enough or
Speaker 1: that she didn't have anything good enough or nobody would
Speaker 1: want to hear her speak because she was of a
Speaker 1: certain age. So that was 100% her own thoughts and feelings.
Speaker 1: And the thing is there is a thing in psychology
Speaker 1: called confirmation bias. We like to prove ourselves, right?
Speaker 1: So at the end of the day, if you have
Speaker 1: a fundamental belief that oh, now that I'm over 40
Speaker 1: 50 60 I'm too old to be seen and heard,
Speaker 1: then you are going to be looking for and experiencing
Speaker 1: things that confirm that it's not to say that there
Speaker 1: aren't external forces. So 100%
Speaker 1: ageism may exist, there are certain stereotypes that exist, you know,
Speaker 1: media is infatuated with youth and things like this. Like
Speaker 1: this podcast, this helps to counteract those external forces. But
Speaker 1: a lot of the work that I do and really
Speaker 1: focus on, which I think is ultimately more empowering for
Speaker 1: the individual is the internal focus. Well, how do you
Speaker 1: coach women into feeling visible again?
Speaker 1: So I have four kind of top tips. So firstly,
Speaker 1: I think it's about acting your spirit, not your age.
Speaker 1: So I have a perfect example of this. A friend
Speaker 1: of mine had a grandmother who's now sadly passed away.
Speaker 1: We affectionately called her Nana Anna. Right up until her nineties.
Speaker 1: She dressed impeccably. She'd walk into a room, she'd command attention.
Speaker 1: She had just this beautiful air of grace and elegance
Speaker 1: about her. And it really did start with her own
Speaker 1: opinion of herself. Her, her, it was her energy that
Speaker 1: was attractive, not just the physicality. So act your spirit,
Speaker 1: not your age, lean into that
Speaker 1: forge a standout style. I have a client who's in
Speaker 1: her sixties. She's the CEO of a very large company.
Speaker 1: She has pink hair and she wears the most amazing
Speaker 1: pra glasses. She walks into the room, she just owns
Speaker 1: it and she's dressed in a way that helps her
Speaker 1: really be seen. So I think forging a style like
Speaker 1: the beautiful jacket you've got today.
Speaker 1: There's no way you could be invisible today. That is fine.
Speaker 1: It's amazing. So, you know, leaning into that, really using
Speaker 1: your clothing to show up and to be seen and
Speaker 1: perhaps that starts to change as you go through the
Speaker 1: different decades and as you get older,
Speaker 1: I always say to my clients invest in a profile image,
Speaker 1: a digital profile image. And here is why it's really
Speaker 1: important in the world that we live in that you
Speaker 1: have a digital presence. So anyone who's 40 plus we
Speaker 1: didn't grow up with social media. So there's probably still
Speaker 1: a mindset of, oh, maybe I'll do a bit of
Speaker 1: social media. That's not how the world is anymore. There's
Speaker 1: the physical world, there's the digital world,
Speaker 1: but both of the real world and you need to
Speaker 1: be visible in both. The linkedin world is really like,
Speaker 1: it is actually sorted me out in the linkedin sketch.
Speaker 1: You got to be there. And I think when you
Speaker 1: invest not, I think I know when you invest in
Speaker 1: a great portrait chart and research shows that this is
Speaker 1: really important.
Speaker 1: It will make you feel more confident in that online space.
Speaker 1: And if you think about it, that profile shop, perhaps
Speaker 1: you'll use it no more than five years. You don't
Speaker 1: want anything. You can't have a profile
Speaker 1: that's 10 years old MC events and they still use
Speaker 1: ones that are like over 10 years old. Ok? You
Speaker 1: need to take 456 club vote. Lovely. Just cut me out.
Speaker 1: I've got, I've got a serious attitude in that photo too.
Speaker 1: Cut me out.
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it, but it's a worthwhile investment.
Speaker 1: And if you run the numbers, you know, it's a
Speaker 1: worthwhile investment. That's all I'll say. And then lastly create
Speaker 1: a multi age network. So do not only spend time
Speaker 1: with people of your own age
Speaker 1: when I was younger, I loved hanging out with people
Speaker 1: who are older because I loved the wisdom that they
Speaker 1: would give, as you get older, it's important to hang
Speaker 1: out with people that are younger because it keeps you
Speaker 1: tapped into not only youth culture, but they will bring
Speaker 1: out a different side of yourself. If you're always spending
Speaker 1: time with them,
Speaker 1: women or men in the same age bracket, as much
Speaker 1: as you've got that sense of, uh, we know what
Speaker 1: we're all going through. I think it's important to have
Speaker 1: younger friends to perhaps give you a different perspective of
Speaker 1: yourself and you shortcuts on your phone as well.
Speaker 1: I always my camera, the long way you go in,
Speaker 1: you unlock your phone, you go to the camera icon,
Speaker 1: you can just love it. There's one button you can
Speaker 1: press when it's locked. Do we all know this? Listen, I,
Speaker 1: I only recently knew about the torch. So don't look
Speaker 1: at me,
Speaker 1: Richard Wilkins showed me. I mean, he could, he definitely,
Speaker 1: he could definitely listen to in the,
Speaker 1: oh my God. But I'm all for that. I've got
Speaker 1: a mentor who's, you know, I think she's late sixties
Speaker 1: now and I love what she sort of, it's gold,
Speaker 1: what she said to me. And it's funny when you
Speaker 1: were talking about your client with the Prada glasses and
Speaker 1: the pink hair when I talked to my mentor about
Speaker 1: this space because she was in corporate for a long time,
Speaker 1: you know, and I said, did you ever feel invisible?
Speaker 1: And she said no, because I specifically dressed in a
Speaker 1: really strong way that was sort of like, you know,
Speaker 1: because she was up the front, always kind of leading
Speaker 1: the discussions and I was like, great, cool. So I
Speaker 1: will stick with a red lip. You've got it works
Speaker 1: on you, you talk about branding in business. Ok, because
Speaker 1: there'll be a lot of women sort of, you know,
Speaker 1: listening in that space. What do you mean by rebrand
Speaker 1: and how, how do women do it?
Speaker 1: Yeah. So when I talk about branding, I always talk
Speaker 1: about the four PS. So you've got your promise, packaging
Speaker 1: position and promotion. So what's your promise? What do you
Speaker 1: want people to know you for and, and know about you.
Speaker 1: What's your packaging? This is where it comes into your styling,
Speaker 1: your social media sites. What's the message that you're putting
Speaker 1: out there when it comes to positioning?
Speaker 1: Who are you spending time with, who's in your network?
Speaker 1: You know, who are you aligning yourself with? Where are
Speaker 1: you working? Uh where are you showing up? And this
Speaker 1: can work in a professional sense and in a personal sense,
Speaker 1: if you're wanting to reinvent your personal life, this also applies.
Speaker 1: You want to change your life, change the things you do,
Speaker 1: the places you go and the people you spend time
Speaker 1: with
Speaker 1: and then the promotion piece is that visibility piece. How
Speaker 1: are you putting yourself out there? How are you making
Speaker 1: sure that you're seen and heard by the people that
Speaker 1: actually matter.
Speaker 1: You gave me this great advice years ago when we
Speaker 1: were talking about social media and linkedin and anywhere that
Speaker 1: you promote yourself, you know, we were talking about, oh,
Speaker 1: but sometimes you, you might have a great image of
Speaker 1: yourself or something, but you don't want to put it
Speaker 1: out there because you're like, oh, what are people gonna think?
Speaker 1: And then we nutted it down to who are those people?
Speaker 1: And it's usually maybe someone you worked with once. So
Speaker 1: it was a bit of a bully or like you
Speaker 1: go to these three people that we're not very nice
Speaker 1: to you. And you're like, what will Jane think from
Speaker 1: a
Speaker 1: Exactly. And it's like Jane doesn't stop doing anything because
Speaker 1: of me. Does she. And so that really years ago
Speaker 1: empowered me to just go if I believe in it.
Speaker 1: And it's true and it's authentic and it's something I
Speaker 1: want to share, whether it's life stuff or work stuff,
Speaker 1: put it out there 100%. This whole conversation. I've been
Speaker 1: picturing the devil wears Prada, is that the person, the person,
Speaker 1: but that is
Speaker 1: like the sharp dress up. Everything is so stylish, but
Speaker 1: you don't have to be harsh about it. Like sometimes
Speaker 1: when we think of an assertive older woman who knows
Speaker 1: what they want, who's stepping into their power. That is
Speaker 1: kind of the image that we see. But we need
Speaker 1: to stop thinking along those lines 100% and there's no
Speaker 1: one definition of powerful. There's no one style that's powerful.
Speaker 1: So your style, your packaging, your promise, it might be
Speaker 1: really relax
Speaker 1: and down to earth it. What matters is that you
Speaker 1: come at everything with a certain level of intentionality. What
Speaker 1: is that message? What are you standing for? And what's
Speaker 1: the deer that you want people to walk away with
Speaker 1: when they meet you? What's the story that you want
Speaker 1: them to, to experience? We all have clothes that we
Speaker 1: keep for a special occasion, don't we? Why can't we
Speaker 1: just wear them every day? Isn't that beautiful? Why do
Speaker 1: we have
Speaker 1: the good China for a special? Why can't we eat
Speaker 1: on the good China on the good China since COVID,
Speaker 1: since COVID, nothing's been the best. So you put a
Speaker 1: good frock on with sneakers, you just, and you just
Speaker 1: rockets has transformed everything, hasn't it? You can wear sneakers
Speaker 1: with everything you can in the bedroom a bit awkward
Speaker 1: with hi armies when you go to bed, get them
Speaker 1: off first, take your shoes off. But I I
Speaker 1: here for, don't keep anything for bear. Yes. 100% 100%.
Speaker 1: All right. So what's the best advice you've got for
Speaker 1: women who are listening, who do feel invisible, take the
Speaker 1: steps that we've spoken about today and really look at,
Speaker 1: sit with yourself and think about what is the mindset?
Speaker 1: What are those beliefs that decisions that you've made about
Speaker 1: getting older, that perhaps you need to reframe and change.
Speaker 1: And that
Speaker 1: to me is the most important step because if you
Speaker 1: start to change the way you're thinking about getting older
Speaker 1: and what that means and this new form of visibility
Speaker 1: that to me has such a huge ripple effect in
Speaker 1: all areas of your life. So that would be the
Speaker 1: first and most important step to take. I love that.
Speaker 1: I love that too. I've loved this entire chat. It
Speaker 1: makes so much sense because self confidence is the best
Speaker 1: kind of confidence because if you're confident in yourself, then
Speaker 1: other people can be 100%. It's so true and we
Speaker 1: need one another, which is why I love what you're
Speaker 1: doing with this show.
Speaker 1: We need to change the narrative together collectively. So the
Speaker 1: more that women do put themselves out there and make
Speaker 1: themselves visible, it will continue and that narrative will change.
Speaker 1: So it's, yeah, you're definitely contributing to that. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: have to write some of this down. Yeah, I feel
Speaker 1: like there's a lot of post it note and stick
Speaker 1: on my laptop. Carli. Thank you so much. Thank you
Speaker 1: for having me.
Speaker 1: How did you feel about Carlie? Oh, well, listen, I'm
Speaker 1: just crazily writing everything down. It's just post to heaven
Speaker 1: over here. What about so many things? I think it
Speaker 1: was a reminder about what we feel on the inside
Speaker 1: is reflected in what people see on the outside and
Speaker 1: it's not about being beautiful and it's about how you
Speaker 1: carry yourself. Absolutely. It's like sitting up straight and smiling sometimes,
Speaker 1: isn't it basic stuff that you just go? I feel
Speaker 1: better about myself. Yes. Yes. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, we're at that time again in the episode where
Speaker 1: we give recommendations. Nelda, what do you have for us
Speaker 1: this week? Well, after listening to Carlie, I really resonated
Speaker 1: with what she said about wearing clothes that you feel
Speaker 1: fabulous in almost reinventing yourself a little bit. Like stepping
Speaker 1: out like
Speaker 1: full of confidence. I went to Paris recently. Can you
Speaker 1: name drop a city? Like I went to Paris recently
Speaker 1: just for the week. My daughter was over there. Now
Speaker 1: I live by Cary through your social media and she
Speaker 1: was like mom, I'm going to be in Paris, come
Speaker 1: and meet me and I was like, yes, she also said,
Speaker 1: don't expect to have all of your meals with me
Speaker 1: or talk to me the whole time, wasn't it too?
Speaker 1: They were guidelines.
Speaker 1: So anyway, what I packed knowing that I had a
Speaker 1: limited time in Paris was all of my best clothes.
Speaker 1: I packed all my best clothes and she incidentally had
Speaker 1: done the same. She was in Europe for a lot
Speaker 1: longer than I. So she already had her best clothes.
Speaker 1: But I was there for
Speaker 1: five days. I curated my wardrobe, best clothes every day
Speaker 1: when I stepped out of my room I knew I
Speaker 1: looked good and I felt so good. And the thing
Speaker 1: about being overseas or somewhere new is no-one knows who
Speaker 1: you are.
Speaker 1: No-one has a story about you. You haven't kind of
Speaker 1: stepped out already thinking that you are invisible. So go
Speaker 1: somewhere somewhere fresh, mix it up. Take all of your
Speaker 1: best things. Love this. It's all about our best, isn't it?
Speaker 1: This episode so visible even if it's in the lift
Speaker 1: in the mirror,
Speaker 1: that's when it started for me, you know, taking selfies
Speaker 1: in the lift. Actually finding out the best way to
Speaker 1: take a selfie in the lift to tip the tip
Speaker 1: the down lights. I always end up with a down light.
Speaker 1: I look like I'm in a horror movie. I always
Speaker 1: go to smile at the camera thinking that the reflection
Speaker 1: is going to make contact with my eyes. But the
Speaker 1: best thing to do is look down at your phone. Oh,
Speaker 1: is it? Yeah. Apparently I don't know for me or
Speaker 1: what
Speaker 1: gonna try. I'm gonna try a bit of that in the,
Speaker 1: see what we can pull out. What's your recommendation? Well,
Speaker 1: after last week and obviously the disaster that was passing
Speaker 1: someone and ending it was red lipstick everywhere. He and I,
Speaker 1: I have been road testing some Priceline red lipstick stains.
Speaker 1: They do not come off. Let me tell you, I mean,
Speaker 1: I've only been kissing my hands sadly
Speaker 1: a loser. I admitted that on a podcast maybe we
Speaker 1: edit that out if I'm ever to go on a
Speaker 1: date again. No. So it keep it in. So that's
Speaker 1: my tip. I'm trying. The stains are the stains good.
Speaker 1: They're really good. And there is a red for everyone
Speaker 1: in Priceline because some people say to me, I couldn't
Speaker 1: wear a red. I'm like, listen, there's a red out
Speaker 1: there for every face.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to this episode of 456 Club.
Speaker 1: If you loved the show, then make sure you rate
Speaker 1: and review and share it with your friends and join
Speaker 1: us next week when we talk about parenting your aging parents.
Speaker 1: The executive producer of 456 Club is Talisa Baza with
Speaker 1: audio editing by Madeleine Joan
Speaker 1: and we'll see you next week. Bye bye. We know
Speaker 1: that everybody's experience in their forties, fifties and sixties looks
Speaker 1: and feels different. So we want to hear from you,
Speaker 1: head to the show notes and complete a short survey
Speaker 1: and to thank you for your time, you could win
Speaker 1: a $50 voucher.
Speaker 1: This episode of 456 Club was made in partnership with
Speaker 1: Priceline Pharmacy for expert advice and all your beauty health
Speaker 1: and wellness needs. Visit Priceline Pharmacy in store or online
Speaker 1: at Priceline dot com dot A U.