WEBVTT - Do Women Actually Become Invisible After 40? Three Very Different Stories 0:00:01.970 --> 0:00:05.329 This episode of 456 club is made in partnership with 0:00:05.340 --> 0:00:09.719 Priceline Pharmacy for expert advice and all your beauty health 0:00:09.728 --> 0:00:14.060 and wellness needs. Visit Priceline Pharmacy in store or online 0:00:14.069 --> 0:00:16.040 at Priceline dot com dot A U. 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:36.668 Have you ever felt invisible when I go shopping for clothes? Now, 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:39.129 I've noticed that the shop assistants don't come and ask 0:00:39.139 --> 0:00:41.779 me if I need help. I always have to seek help. 0:00:41.790 --> 0:00:43.958 It's almost like I'm invisible. 0:00:43.970 --> 0:00:48.229 Being single and childless can make a woman feel invisible. 0:00:48.250 --> 0:00:50.439 You start to get left out of your friendship groups 0:00:50.450 --> 0:00:52.180 when your friends start to couple up and you're the 0:00:52.189 --> 0:00:54.040 only single one I noticed when I 0:00:54.220 --> 0:00:57.220 with my daughter in her mid twenties, men don't look 0:00:57.229 --> 0:00:57.950 at me anymore. 0:00:58.180 --> 0:01:00.580 They look at her. Do you remember the day? You 0:01:00.590 --> 0:01:04.830 first felt like that the day you disappeared or are 0:01:04.839 --> 0:01:07.809 you feeling more relevant than ever in your forties? Fifties 0:01:07.819 --> 0:01:11.519 and sixties. This is 456 club. The show that helps 0:01:11.529 --> 0:01:14.679 women in their forties, fifties and sixties, feel seen, heard 0:01:14.690 --> 0:01:16.369 and better about everything. 0:01:16.639 --> 0:01:19.730 I'm Nelda Jacobs and you will usually find me on 0:01:19.739 --> 0:01:22.269 the couch at studio 10 at 10 am from Monday 0:01:22.279 --> 0:01:29.400 to Friday. Sometimes you might see a pony on the couch. Oh, 0:01:29.410 --> 0:01:31.819 I know. It was so exciting. You went to my 0:01:31.830 --> 0:01:36.120 work the other day you went there. I wasn't, I, 0:01:36.169 --> 0:01:41.000 I bring your friend to work somewhere else. You were 0:01:41.019 --> 0:01:43.330 at my work on studio 10. How was it? You 0:01:43.339 --> 0:01:44.309 were fantastic. 0:01:44.410 --> 0:01:47.160 I tell you, I was so nervous and it's live TV, 0:01:47.169 --> 0:01:49.059 isn't it? You were talking about this podcast? I was 0:01:49.069 --> 0:01:51.089 talking about this podcast and you and how much I 0:01:51.099 --> 0:01:53.550 loved you. And we talked about all sorts of things 0:01:53.559 --> 0:01:58.610 including dryness down there, which was interesting having Tristan your 0:01:58.620 --> 0:02:02.150 co-host just have to sit there while the other three 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:04.309 ladies on the couch talked about it. He was just 0:02:04.319 --> 0:02:07.889 taking it and then I asked you on the party, 0:02:07.900 --> 0:02:11.059 you also talk about being invisible and your reply was, well, 0:02:11.070 --> 0:02:12.259 we haven't talked about it yet, 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:16.960 which brings us to today. But yes, we are here 0:02:16.970 --> 0:02:20.350 today to talk about feeling invisible. Later in this episode, 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:22.869 we'll hear from women in the 456 club who are 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:27.619 all too familiar with feeling invisible. We'll hear how it 0:02:27.630 --> 0:02:28.049 impacts 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:31.970 at them and how they navigated it to take back power. 0:02:31.979 --> 0:02:34.490 And we'll hear from Carly Lyon who runs the brand 0:02:34.500 --> 0:02:38.399 in New. She specializes in helping women rebrand themselves and 0:02:38.410 --> 0:02:41.360 making them feel relevant again. But first, Keith, is this 0:02:41.369 --> 0:02:43.229 something you've felt or experienced before 0:02:44.038 --> 0:02:49.009 feeling invisible? Look to be honest, not in my forties. 0:02:49.020 --> 0:02:52.820 I'm at late forties. Now. 48 I felt quite visible 0:02:52.830 --> 0:02:56.410 in my thirties. I definitely felt invisible. I was married 0:02:56.419 --> 0:02:59.579 to a high profile sportsman. And, um, you know, let 0:02:59.589 --> 0:03:01.758 me tell you when you sort of walked into a 0:03:01.779 --> 0:03:04.589 room of chaps at an event or something, I could 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:06.309 have been stood there like in a bikini and people 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:06.869 would have just pushed 0:03:06.953 --> 0:03:08.643 me out of the way to talk to my husband. 0:03:08.931 --> 0:03:11.222 So invisible that one time when we were at a 0:03:11.233 --> 0:03:13.941 stadium and some guys came over and wanted a photo, 0:03:13.953 --> 0:03:16.952 one of them sat on me to get closer to 0:03:16.962 --> 0:03:19.892 my ex-husband to get the photo. I was like, am 0:03:19.901 --> 0:03:23.322 I even here? Oh, my goodness, Keith. I never do 0:03:23.332 --> 0:03:25.901 to you. It was just bizarre. I don't know. I, 0:03:25.912 --> 0:03:28.263 it made me laugh. I used to sort of think, 0:03:28.272 --> 0:03:29.782 oh my gosh, we've got like a real 0:03:30.565 --> 0:03:33.345 but 12 o'clock we got two incoming. So I'd be 0:03:33.356 --> 0:03:36.636 like you walk into a room though and heads turn. 0:03:36.755 --> 0:03:39.335 That's the presence that you have. Oh, do I say 0:03:39.345 --> 0:03:43.345 that again? Say it again. Well, my head turns. I really, 0:03:43.606 --> 0:03:46.305 because I really tall and I bounce like when I 0:03:46.315 --> 0:03:48.725 walk I think you just have, you just look really 0:03:48.735 --> 0:03:52.636 cool as you walk in. Like I arrived 0:03:53.639 --> 0:03:56.169 as I've just tripped up getting out of the list. 0:03:56.199 --> 0:03:58.100 But I like the way you make me sound. Is 0:03:58.110 --> 0:04:01.389 that your profession? In your professional life. You're a publicist. Yes. 0:04:01.399 --> 0:04:03.550 So does that I feed into that as well. I 0:04:03.559 --> 0:04:05.250 think you've hit the nail on the head because the, 0:04:05.259 --> 0:04:08.729 my entire career you do have to be invisible. You know, 0:04:08.740 --> 0:04:10.940 you're with a superstar or a singer or an actress. 0:04:10.949 --> 0:04:14.899 Whoever you're presenting, you do have to be there but 0:04:14.910 --> 0:04:16.750 invisible at all times whilst 0:04:16.825 --> 0:04:20.066 control. So, yeah. So maybe I just learned the art 0:04:20.075 --> 0:04:23.555 of camouflage, which can be a blessing sometimes I know 0:04:23.565 --> 0:04:26.635 it can be good, but I'm back out now. Yes, 0:04:26.805 --> 0:04:30.515 I'm wearing loud red colors. Tell me, what about you? 0:04:30.526 --> 0:04:32.555 Have you ever felt invisible? Well, like you as well 0:04:32.565 --> 0:04:35.196 when I was younger. So I'm the youngest of five 0:04:35.226 --> 0:04:38.794 girls in my family. So as I was growing up, 0:04:38.805 --> 0:04:39.795 I always was 0:04:40.111 --> 0:04:42.242 for like somebody always did the speaking for me, I 0:04:42.252 --> 0:04:45.981 never actually was called upon to speak. I know that 0:04:45.992 --> 0:04:48.481 sounds odd and I was always kind of the cute one, 0:04:48.492 --> 0:04:50.661 you know, and so nothing's really expected of the cute 0:04:50.671 --> 0:04:53.571 one and everyone else feels seen, but I kind of 0:04:53.582 --> 0:04:55.481 feel like I kind of just slipped under the radar, 0:04:55.492 --> 0:04:59.501 but now I feel more seen than ever because I'm 0:04:59.511 --> 0:05:06.582 sharing opinions and speaking and being looked upon for wisdom, 0:05:06.962 --> 0:05:07.342 you know, 0:05:08.250 --> 0:05:12.140 I think you're very wise. Yeah, which I think that's 0:05:12.149 --> 0:05:14.579 something that comes with age and especially in first nations 0:05:14.589 --> 0:05:18.618 culture where you reach a point where you're called auntie. 0:05:18.630 --> 0:05:22.558 So I'm called auntie. I'm an auntie now, I didn't 0:05:22.570 --> 0:05:25.540 know that. So with that comes a level of respect 0:05:25.549 --> 0:05:31.440 that comes with age and lived experience. So for those reasons, 0:05:31.510 --> 0:05:34.159 I feel more seen than ever. So, Kath, there's this 0:05:34.290 --> 0:05:37.179 unwritten rule and it's become a bit of a joke 0:05:37.190 --> 0:05:40.109 that women have got to be 39 or younger to 0:05:40.119 --> 0:05:42.480 make it in TV. So we have this joke that 0:05:42.488 --> 0:05:46.380 we're forever 39. And I think Anne used it on 0:05:46.390 --> 0:05:48.660 the day that you were at studio T S and 0:05:48.670 --> 0:05:50.399 we were like 456 club. And she's like, well, I'm 0:05:50.410 --> 0:05:54.019 not 48 or something. I mean, she looks absolutely fabulous. 0:05:54.029 --> 0:05:54.279 But 0:05:54.769 --> 0:05:57.359 I was, and, and I was told that before I 0:05:57.369 --> 0:06:00.769 decided to move to Sydney from Perth, I was already, 0:06:00.779 --> 0:06:03.349 I think 43 or something. And I was asked by 0:06:03.359 --> 0:06:06.640 someone I was getting advice from and he who was 0:06:06.649 --> 0:06:08.510 in the industry for a long time, not working at 0:06:08.519 --> 0:06:11.269 channel 10, by the way, he said, so, how old 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:14.880 are you? And I said 43 he said, oh, it's 0:06:14.890 --> 0:06:17.179 getting a bit old. Um, they say women have to 0:06:17.190 --> 0:06:19.799 be 39. And so I was like, oh, wow, I 0:06:19.809 --> 0:06:21.739 just experience that, that thing. 0:06:21.959 --> 0:06:23.969 And so then I came over and I'm like, looking 0:06:23.980 --> 0:06:26.010 around at all the women at channel 10, they're all 0:06:26.019 --> 0:06:26.450 like 0:06:26.730 --> 0:06:31.459 my age or older and thinking like they're running the network. 0:06:31.470 --> 0:06:33.420 These are women who are running the network. And it's like, 0:06:33.428 --> 0:06:36.420 excuse me, because all I can see are women in 0:06:36.428 --> 0:06:39.979 their absolute prime leading all the conversations that we're having 0:06:39.988 --> 0:06:42.570 as a nation, which is fabulous. I mean, even being 0:06:42.579 --> 0:06:45.910 part of this podcast is empowering, isn't it? I think? 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:47.649 And it sort of sets the agenda for everyone to 0:06:47.660 --> 0:06:50.690 talk about aging because we're all aging and it's actually 0:06:50.700 --> 0:06:53.709 not that bad. So, get on board. He sounds like 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:54.419 a dinosaur. 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:03.809 We're gonna be talking to Cathy o'brien who's in her 0:07:03.820 --> 0:07:06.339 fifties and a writer and she's going to share with 0:07:06.350 --> 0:07:11.239 us her invisibility experiences, Cathy. Do you remember the day? 0:07:11.250 --> 0:07:12.709 You first felt invisible? 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:15.890 Look, being a mum, you feel invisible a lot? I 0:07:15.899 --> 0:07:20.660 reckon I felt invisible when my son was born. All 0:07:20.670 --> 0:07:22.929 of a sudden the focus was on him 0:07:23.190 --> 0:07:29.640 and I hastily changed my name from my maiden name 0:07:29.649 --> 0:07:32.000 to my married name when I got married. And then 0:07:32.010 --> 0:07:34.140 all of a sudden when I had this little baby 0:07:34.149 --> 0:07:37.140 in my arms, I was like, oh, hang on. I'm 0:07:37.209 --> 0:07:42.130 nobody now. Like I'm just somebody's mum and I'm somebody's 0:07:42.140 --> 0:07:45.859 wife and who am I in all of this? So 0:07:46.190 --> 0:07:50.170 it probably was like a slow burn 22 years ago 0:07:50.179 --> 0:07:51.579 when my son was born 0:07:52.070 --> 0:07:56.959 and then my daughters were born three days after my birthday. 0:07:56.970 --> 0:08:00.119 And I can remember my mother-in-law saying to me not 0:08:00.130 --> 0:08:03.019 long after my twins were born. 0:08:03.459 --> 0:08:06.529 Oh, well, I hope you enjoyed this year's birthday because 0:08:06.540 --> 0:08:09.250 you'll never have another one to celebrate again. And I 0:08:09.260 --> 0:08:12.000 looked at her and I was like, oh, ah, I 0:08:12.029 --> 0:08:17.399 don't think so. It's my birthday. So, yeah. Oh, 0:08:17.410 --> 0:08:20.359 listen to someone whose birthday is on Christmas Day. Once 0:08:20.369 --> 0:08:22.559 I became a mum, I was like, oh, it's gonna 0:08:22.570 --> 0:08:24.260 have to be about the kid for a bit, isn't it? 0:08:24.290 --> 0:08:26.559 Why is your birthday on Christmas? 0:08:27.660 --> 0:08:31.269 Yes. How did you feel then when your birthdays rolled around? 0:08:31.709 --> 0:08:34.080 Just all the gifts on the one day? I love 0:08:34.090 --> 0:08:35.989 it because generally it's a day that most people are 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:38.739 happy but Cathy, do you have to remain vigilant that 0:08:38.750 --> 0:08:42.159 you don't slip into that sort of losing your identity? 0:08:42.169 --> 0:08:46.619 Because when we get married, we're told to take on 0:08:46.630 --> 0:08:51.700 our husband's last names, like in a traditional heteronormative sense, 0:08:51.859 --> 0:08:53.549 I don't really think, oh, I can retain my name. 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:56.270 I can retain my identity. How do you then reclaim 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:56.468 your 0:08:56.479 --> 0:09:00.369 identity for the last, I don't know, 18 years. I 0:09:00.380 --> 0:09:04.909 really didn't. It was a very difficult process. I was 0:09:04.919 --> 0:09:09.630 lost in the identity of the family and the identity 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:12.979 of being a mother to three Children, a mother to 0:09:12.989 --> 0:09:15.969 twins because that's something different again 0:09:16.289 --> 0:09:21.479 and being my husband's wife. And it wasn't really until 0:09:21.489 --> 0:09:24.679 I had my breakdown, I guess, with a lot of 0:09:24.690 --> 0:09:29.419 work on myself and a lot of support from my 0:09:29.429 --> 0:09:31.880 medical team and my mental health team 0:09:32.260 --> 0:09:36.130 working out who am I in all of that? And 0:09:36.140 --> 0:09:41.210 that kind of morphed into looking for something that I 0:09:41.219 --> 0:09:45.900 wanted to do that made me happy in life. And, yeah, 0:09:45.909 --> 0:09:48.270 so it's really in the, only in the last kind 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:51.289 of few years, three or four years, maybe that I've 0:09:51.299 --> 0:09:55.210 started to think about who am I in my family, 0:09:55.284 --> 0:09:59.354 family and who am I in this world? How did 0:09:59.364 --> 0:10:01.544 it feel when you say you felt invisible? 0:10:01.655 --> 0:10:05.994 Nothing was about me. Nothing at all was about me. 0:10:06.005 --> 0:10:10.294 It was always, if I wanted to go to work, 0:10:10.304 --> 0:10:14.155 it was about how can I do this in the 0:10:14.164 --> 0:10:20.733 smallest and the quietest possible way that doesn't impact the 0:10:20.744 --> 0:10:23.554 family because we needed 0:10:23.919 --> 0:10:26.479 me to be there to pick the kids up or 0:10:26.489 --> 0:10:29.150 to take them to dance or to run them to 0:10:29.159 --> 0:10:35.239 football training or medical appointments or whatever. So losing myself 0:10:35.250 --> 0:10:38.080 in all of that, I really didn't think that that 0:10:38.090 --> 0:10:42.109 would happen. I thought that I would have a career 0:10:42.119 --> 0:10:45.630 and I would balance having a career and being a 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:49.200 mother and you know, being the best friend and being 0:10:49.210 --> 0:10:51.989 the best wife and all of those things. And 0:10:52.270 --> 0:10:55.099 you know, I'm a total gen X baby. We were 0:10:55.109 --> 0:10:59.358 told go to school, get a degree. You can have 0:10:59.369 --> 0:11:02.619 a great career, you can have a family, you can 0:11:02.630 --> 0:11:05.150 do all of these things, but they left out the 0:11:05.159 --> 0:11:08.218 little bit, the little caveat at the end, you can't 0:11:08.229 --> 0:11:11.760 have it all at the same time, you can, but 0:11:11.770 --> 0:11:13.200 not all at the same time. 0:11:13.210 --> 0:11:15.500 Kay and cat, there's one thing that strikes me 0:11:15.590 --> 0:11:18.400 out of this and, and is that heteronormative has a 0:11:18.409 --> 0:11:22.299 lot to answer for. We slip into gendered roles, don't we? 0:11:22.309 --> 0:11:26.080 And societal expectations of us no matter what we're told 0:11:26.090 --> 0:11:28.750 exactly what you've said, Cathy, like go and achieve all 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:31.439 your dreams, you know, the world is your oyster. But 0:11:31.450 --> 0:11:36.960 when society expects that you will be the primary caregiver of, 0:11:36.969 --> 0:11:38.679 you know, your Children and then 0:11:38.909 --> 0:11:42.239 potentially aging parents as well. Like you said, you know, 0:11:42.250 --> 0:11:43.848 you've got to keep yourself small to be able to 0:11:43.859 --> 0:11:46.329 go out and achieve the things that you want. So 0:11:46.340 --> 0:11:48.900 that doesn't upset the household too much. I mean, everything 0:11:48.909 --> 0:11:50.690 else should be able to fit around you so that 0:11:50.700 --> 0:11:52.250 you can go and do these things because it would 0:11:52.260 --> 0:11:54.760 make you a better person, which then your Children will 0:11:54.770 --> 0:11:56.849 look up to. I think this is wild 0:11:56.859 --> 0:12:01.609 100%. I completely agree with you. No, it's ridiculous to 0:12:01.619 --> 0:12:02.140 think that 0:12:02.229 --> 0:12:05.709 that so many women think that they need to be 0:12:05.719 --> 0:12:10.199 small so that they can not impact the family or 0:12:10.210 --> 0:12:12.669 they want to have their career. But how do they 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:16.280 juggle this coming through? That was really, really hard and 0:12:16.289 --> 0:12:19.719 trying to get back into the workforce when you've been 0:12:19.729 --> 0:12:25.460 out of the workforce for 15 years is ridiculously difficult. 0:12:25.789 --> 0:12:29.409 Is that where you notice the age adding to the 0:12:29.419 --> 0:12:31.669 invisibility and difficulty of that 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:39.340 landscape, 100% and the amount of people including recruiters, they say. So, 0:12:39.469 --> 0:12:42.789 can you give us a reference? I was like, well, 0:12:42.799 --> 0:12:47.119 I can give you my last job, which was in 0:12:47.130 --> 0:12:52.059 2006 and this is in 2000 and, 0:12:52.125 --> 0:12:55.734 and 18. And they're like, well, that's no 0:12:55.744 --> 0:12:59.534 good but Cathy all those unpaid jobs that you were 0:12:59.544 --> 0:13:02.914 doing at home and probably in the school community, you 0:13:02.924 --> 0:13:05.544 can't necessarily put that on your CV. Can you? Because 0:13:05.554 --> 0:13:08.724 it doesn't really count for anything in the eyes of employers. 0:13:08.734 --> 0:13:09.195 It was 0:13:09.205 --> 0:13:12.934 really, really challenging. I did do a lot of volunteer 0:13:12.945 --> 0:13:18.395 work with model, both association and one of my 0:13:18.820 --> 0:13:22.319 colleagues who I sat on the national board with, she 0:13:22.330 --> 0:13:26.219 actually was a referee for me. Ultimately, I did have 0:13:26.229 --> 0:13:28.799 to put down my volunteer work. And that was really 0:13:28.809 --> 0:13:31.940 hard because it's like, well, can't you just give me 0:13:31.950 --> 0:13:35.340 a chance? And they're like, oh, but you're so old, 0:13:35.349 --> 0:13:38.229 what have you been doing? It's like, yeah, I know. 0:13:38.429 --> 0:13:43.719 But I've been raising humans. Like, that's a big deal, right? 0:13:43.729 --> 0:13:44.359 Like 0:13:44.729 --> 0:13:49.089 raising a human is a very important job. 0:13:49.190 --> 0:13:52.880 I'd love to explore the idea that there is power 0:13:52.890 --> 0:13:55.070 in being invisible sometimes. 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:58.340 Yeah, 100%. I think that when you 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:03.609 are invisible and when people don't expect anything of you, 0:14:03.619 --> 0:14:07.689 people underestimate you and then all of a sudden you'll 0:14:07.700 --> 0:14:10.939 do something amazing at work. Or you might do something 0:14:11.299 --> 0:14:16.690 with your friends or whatever and everybody has really underestimated 0:14:16.700 --> 0:14:20.640 you along the way. So when you're watching, you get to, 0:14:20.869 --> 0:14:23.010 I don't know, you get to take a lot more in, 0:14:23.020 --> 0:14:25.469 you get to listen, you get to 0:14:26.059 --> 0:14:29.710 get all of the input, you get to take all 0:14:29.719 --> 0:14:34.169 of that information on board because no-one's expecting anything from 0:14:34.179 --> 0:14:37.150 you and they tell you a lot of things as well. 0:14:37.159 --> 0:14:40.510 That's what I find. I find that so many people 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:42.940 will come to me and tell me all sorts of 0:14:42.950 --> 0:14:46.500 information that probably they shouldn't share with me. Then I 0:14:46.510 --> 0:14:50.299 use my powers for good. My little invisibility powers for 0:14:50.309 --> 0:14:53.359 good and go oh toddle off and do this or 0:14:53.369 --> 0:14:54.309 do that. And, 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:58.210 and you can sometimes have real influence and you know, 0:14:58.219 --> 0:15:03.429 you can shape conversations when people don't even really realize 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:04.929 that that's where it came from. 0:15:10.119 --> 0:15:12.510 So Sandra is about to join us. Now, she lives 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:15.239 in regional New South Wales and was 56 when she 0:15:15.250 --> 0:15:19.640 was made redundant. After a company restructure. Six months later, 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:23.520 she went for her first interview and sadly, this was 0:15:23.530 --> 0:15:27.109 the first time she's actually felt invisible. Yes or worthless. 0:15:29.609 --> 0:15:32.489 Yeah. Or pass your expiry date. So when have you 0:15:32.500 --> 0:15:36.289 felt like that? I had an interview at an accountancy 0:15:36.299 --> 0:15:40.059 firm four years ago. Not quite. And during the interview, 0:15:40.070 --> 0:15:42.869 they were sort of leading sort of asking questions, you know, 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:44.700 about how long do you think you'll stay in? 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:47.780 I thought, hm, shouldn't really ask these sort of questions. 0:15:47.789 --> 0:15:49.719 But anyhow, I sort of answered. I said, oh, well, 0:15:49.729 --> 0:15:51.539 you know, I usually give a good five years or, 0:15:51.549 --> 0:15:54.650 or something and maybe even longer. And then when the 0:15:54.659 --> 0:15:57.989 person rang to say that I didn't get the job, 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:01.119 they said they wanted someone younger because I was the 0:16:01.130 --> 0:16:02.919 same age as the person I was going to be 0:16:02.929 --> 0:16:06.369 eventually replacing and would be retiring at the same age 0:16:06.460 --> 0:16:07.549 at the same time. 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:10.359 And I thought, well, when this person knew me, I 0:16:10.369 --> 0:16:13.090 considered him a family friend to one of the other 0:16:13.099 --> 0:16:15.770 girls on the interview panel, went to school with me. 0:16:15.780 --> 0:16:17.880 So she would have known how old I was. Why 0:16:17.890 --> 0:16:20.789 did you waste my time interviewing me and then telling 0:16:20.799 --> 0:16:25.330 me I was too old Sandra. How old were you 0:16:25.340 --> 0:16:29.880 at the time? Not quite 56. Oh, you were a baby. 0:16:29.950 --> 0:16:36.690 The thing is right. Ok. Let's ask you, what were 0:16:36.700 --> 0:16:37.750 you angry about? 0:16:38.010 --> 0:16:40.739 Sort of been written off that someone might think that 0:16:40.750 --> 0:16:43.169 I didn't know when I was going to retire. So 0:16:43.179 --> 0:16:45.179 they sort of made up presumption that I was going 0:16:45.190 --> 0:16:47.609 to retire at the same time. This other person was. 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:50.549 And I thought, well, who's to say I'm not gonna 0:16:50.559 --> 0:16:54.760 work until I'm 66. So I'm older. I wouldn't even 0:16:54.789 --> 0:17:01.619 call you middle aged care change in you at that age. Funny, 0:17:01.630 --> 0:17:02.760 you should say that I've had one 0:17:04.140 --> 0:17:08.109 excellent. The thing that I was angry about was that 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:10.849 when you ask people, you know, how long you've been 0:17:10.859 --> 0:17:12.839 in your job for or whatever? Like, and I've been 0:17:12.849 --> 0:17:14.719 at channel 10 for 23 years. It's, it's a really 0:17:14.729 --> 0:17:17.619 long time. I started to get embarrassed because I was 0:17:17.630 --> 0:17:19.160 in the same job for such a long time because 0:17:19.170 --> 0:17:20.010 everybody 0:17:20.260 --> 0:17:23.500 moves on after a, just a number of years and 0:17:23.510 --> 0:17:27.040 younger people have career changes after like, five years. So 0:17:27.050 --> 0:17:29.989 for them to, like, I'm offended on your behalf that 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:32.300 they would expect that you wouldn't be in the job 0:17:32.310 --> 0:17:35.180 for very long because you go off and retire. Yeah, 0:17:35.189 --> 0:17:38.180 I mean, I thought, well, no one knows exactly when 0:17:38.189 --> 0:17:40.859 they're going to, like, depends on your health and circumstance too, 0:17:40.869 --> 0:17:44.060 but I certainly had no plans of retiring before 60 0:17:44.069 --> 0:17:46.329 and I'm 60 now and I don't have any 0:17:46.430 --> 0:17:50.199 plans to retire before 63 still. So I could have 0:17:50.209 --> 0:17:53.839 done easily five years, eight years, probably. But anyway, they 0:17:53.849 --> 0:17:56.688 decided that because they were wanting someone to replace this 0:17:56.699 --> 0:17:59.469 person who was the same age. Well, don't damn will 0:17:59.479 --> 0:18:02.050 interview me then. You know how old I am? I 0:18:02.060 --> 0:18:04.439 feel like we're gonna have a Julia Roberts moment towards 0:18:04.449 --> 0:18:07.469 the end of this conversation with the, you going back 0:18:07.479 --> 0:18:11.260 in the shop with your bags going big mistake feeling 0:18:11.270 --> 0:18:12.160 that coming. 0:18:12.829 --> 0:18:15.229 Did this knock your confidence? So when you had to 0:18:15.239 --> 0:18:17.459 apply for a job after that? Did it knock your 0:18:17.469 --> 0:18:21.119 confidence or did you think, hey, screw you. Well, I 0:18:21.130 --> 0:18:23.449 thought most people you're going to have an interview with 0:18:23.459 --> 0:18:25.250 won't have a clue how old you are anyway. Unless 0:18:25.260 --> 0:18:27.688 you advertise it. It's just that it was some people 0:18:27.699 --> 0:18:30.219 I happen to know in this case, I got some 0:18:30.229 --> 0:18:32.530 temp work at the local hospital and then I was 0:18:32.540 --> 0:18:35.839 there for three years. And did you feel visible? 0:18:35.935 --> 0:18:39.584 Those jobs? Yes. Yes, I felt no problem at all. 0:18:39.665 --> 0:18:42.775 I like that. Now, you've just turned 60 and five 0:18:42.785 --> 0:18:46.063 months ago you started a new career in an industry 0:18:46.074 --> 0:18:48.425 you've always wanted to work in. This is your Julia 0:18:48.435 --> 0:18:54.734 Roberts moment. Sandra. How does it feel? Amazing? Amazing. Yes. Travel. Oh, 0:18:54.744 --> 0:18:58.584 so good company who does tours in the Outback? And 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:01.659 I do their rooming list. So for all the tours 0:19:01.670 --> 0:19:04.229 that they do, if you want a bed, your name 0:19:04.239 --> 0:19:07.609 needs to be on that rooming list. So, um, very busy, 0:19:07.619 --> 0:19:15.770 very busy and no retirement in sight. Absolutely not. So, Sandra, 0:19:16.010 --> 0:19:18.819 I really hope this hasn't happened to other people. But 0:19:18.829 --> 0:19:21.448 what is your advice to others who do experience this 0:19:21.459 --> 0:19:24.369 sort of a thing? I'd just say keep trying, essentially, 0:19:24.380 --> 0:19:28.050 keep trying. Not everybody thinks like that. Obviously just 0:19:28.135 --> 0:19:30.984 keep hanging in there. I always think up comeback lines 0:19:30.994 --> 0:19:33.665 way after the fact. Is there anything that you would 0:19:33.675 --> 0:19:35.395 like to say to them if you were in the 0:19:35.405 --> 0:19:38.165 room with them again. Now that you've had some time 0:19:38.175 --> 0:19:42.385 to think about, we're gonna have to beat this. I'd say, well, 0:19:42.395 --> 0:19:44.764 I went to school with you. Why did you interview 0:19:44.775 --> 0:19:49.925 me and we've been family friends for 30 years. Why 0:19:49.935 --> 0:19:51.935 did you interview me when you thought I was too old? 0:19:53.069 --> 0:19:56.109 I'd put it back on them. That's fabulous. And also 0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:58.430 look at how it's ended. I'm a big believer in 0:19:58.439 --> 0:20:00.790 the universe. Like you've ended up doing something that you've 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:03.899 always wanted to do. Love that, love that. I hope 0:20:03.910 --> 0:20:06.199 one day you can turn the tables on them, Sandra 0:20:06.209 --> 0:20:08.218 and give them some of their own medicine. 0:20:09.474 --> 0:20:12.145 I mean, we like to take revenge, but I feel 0:20:12.175 --> 0:20:14.604 like we don't mind a little bit of revenge doing. 0:20:15.685 --> 0:20:18.555 I hope sometimes they might have some trouble or some 0:20:18.564 --> 0:20:21.344 loved ones who might want some trouble. But they'll be like, oh, yeah. No, 0:20:21.354 --> 0:20:26.555 I'm sorry. There's nothing for you. Computers, Sandra. Thank you 0:20:26.564 --> 0:20:28.524 so much for taking the time to share your story 0:20:28.535 --> 0:20:31.344 with us. No, no worries. Thanks for having me. 0:20:32.130 --> 0:20:35.969 How much do we love Sandra? She was fantastic. She 0:20:35.979 --> 0:20:38.770 was fantastic. I loved her. But also just to have 0:20:38.780 --> 0:20:41.619 such a positive outlook on life and think, you know, well, 0:20:41.630 --> 0:20:45.199 you didn't deserve me and I won in the end. Yeah. Well, 0:20:45.209 --> 0:20:47.520 she's having a great time now. She's into a career 0:20:47.530 --> 0:20:50.060 that she never thought she'd have that she wants brilliant. 0:20:50.069 --> 0:20:53.349 And that office can remain miserable. But, yeah, living her 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:55.629 best life. Exactly. Here's to more Sandra. 0:21:08.530 --> 0:21:11.869 Do you ever feel invisible? Well, new research from Priceline 0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:15.649 has found over two in five Australian women aged over 0:21:15.660 --> 0:21:18.339 40 do cat. That's two in five. 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