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Speaker 1: One of the most powerful things for me in terms

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Speaker 1: of setting my path was understanding how I liked to

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Speaker 1: learn and building a learning environment that worked for that.

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Speaker 1: So often I think when we talk about concepts like leadership,

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Speaker 1: we put it on that's above my pay grade, that's

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Speaker 1: only for people to run organizations of excise. Actually, each

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Speaker 1: and every one of us is a leader every day,

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Speaker 1: and those small moments are as important as the big movements.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Sees the Yay Podcast. Busy and happy

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Speaker 2: are not the same thing. We too rarely question what

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Speaker 2: makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but

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Speaker 2: rarely we play, and often don't realize there's more than

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Speaker 2: one way. So this is a platform to hear and

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Speaker 2: explore the stories of those who found lives They adore,

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Speaker 2: the good, bad and ugly. The best and worst day

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Speaker 2: will bear all the facets of seizing your yay. I'm

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Speaker 2: Sarah Davidson or a spoonful of Sarah, a lawyer turned

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Speaker 2: entrepreneur whos wpped the suits and heels to co found

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Speaker 2: Matcham and MATCHA milk Bark CZA is a series of

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Speaker 2: conversations on finding a life you love and exploring the

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Speaker 2: self doubt challenge, joy.

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Speaker 3: And fulfillment along the way.

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Speaker 2: Skipped yas of our lives this week, lovely people, as

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Speaker 2: we've had some fielders at home which don't quite create

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Speaker 2: the loveliest background noises for podcasting, but today's garest well

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Speaker 2: and truly makes up for the gap. It's probably been

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Speaker 2: eight years since I first heard of our wonderful guest

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Speaker 2: today and started closely following her journey, but today was

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Speaker 2: the very first time I've had the privilege of chatting

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Speaker 2: with her directly, and I think you'll be able to

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Speaker 2: hear we got on like a house on fire. If

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Speaker 2: she'd been inspiring and influencing me from afar with her intellect,

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Speaker 2: drive and leadership until now, her impact was tenfold in

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Speaker 2: this conversation, and I feel so lucky to be able

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Speaker 2: to share that with some of you. Holly Ransom has

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Speaker 2: about as much difficulty describing what she does as I do,

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Speaker 2: but that's probably why we get along so well. Facing

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Speaker 2: a lifelong struggle not to try everything and anything and

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Speaker 2: all at once, she is a specialist in disruptive strategy,

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Speaker 2: a private company director, an advocate for social and economic inclusion,

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Speaker 2: a businesswoman, a globally recognized speaker, podcaster, and just this

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Speaker 2: year also an author. Starting with an arts law degree

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Speaker 2: for similar reasons as I did, Holly's born flair for

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Speaker 2: leadership and insatiable curiosity ultimately led her away from the

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Speaker 2: law and into a constantly evolving career path with more

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Speaker 2: accolades than I have time to live here just a

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Speaker 2: few of them. She was named as one of Australia's

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Speaker 2: one hundred most Influential Women by the Australian Financial Review.

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Speaker 2: She has delivered a peace charter to the Dalai Lama,

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Speaker 2: interviewed Barack Obama on stage, and was Sir Richard Branson's

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Speaker 2: nominee for Wide Magazine's Smart List of Future game Changes

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Speaker 2: to Watch. In twenty nineteen, she was awarded the US

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Speaker 2: embussi's Eleanor Roosevelt Award for Leadership Excellence. She also won

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Speaker 2: the Fulbright Scholarship to complete her master's degree at Harvard University,

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Speaker 2: from which she graduated just recently, and has now poured

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Speaker 2: the culmination of all those experiences into a fabulos book,

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Speaker 2: The Leading Edge. I'll let her tell you the rest

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Speaker 2: herself in the most articulate and engaging words. I hope

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Speaker 2: you all enjoy Holly Ransom, welcome to Seize.

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Speaker 1: The Thank you so much for having me, Sarah. It's

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Speaker 1: great to be here.

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Speaker 2: Ah, it's so lovely to finally connect properly. We were

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Speaker 2: just talking off there about how I've been fangirling you

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Speaker 2: since around twenty thirteen, I think when we went to

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Speaker 2: a conference together.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, you're incredibly generous in that, And as

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Speaker 1: I was saying right back at you, I've been following

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Speaker 1: your entrepreneurial career with the podcast and with your business

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Speaker 1: as well, and it's just awesome. I love seeing other

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Speaker 1: women in particular, but people winning and people who are

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Speaker 1: prepared to back themselves. I get so excited every time

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Speaker 1: I see success like that. So just couldn't be happier

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Speaker 1: for you.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's so kind, And I couldn't be happier for

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Speaker 2: you and everything you've achieved, culminating in a new book

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Speaker 2: that we'll get too shortly. But you also mentioned before

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Speaker 2: my corporate refugee pathway and having escaped from law pretty quickly,

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Speaker 2: and you escaped even earlier, avoiding the corporate stint altogether,

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Speaker 2: which might make some people think that our law arts

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Speaker 2: degrees were a bit of a waste. Of time, but

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Speaker 2: I like to remind everyone that nothing is a waste

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Speaker 2: of time if you learn something, And I think it

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Speaker 2: made an amazing launch pad for me with everything that's

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Speaker 2: come since. So what did you think?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's funny. I don't know if it's the

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Speaker 1: same for you, but sometimes it's I feel it's taken

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Speaker 1: me time after my degree to appreciate what I got

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Speaker 1: out of the degree in the sense of just the

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Speaker 1: grounding in the law and how helpful that's been and

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Speaker 1: running a business, being able to kind of get your

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Speaker 1: head around contracts and just understand a whole bunch of

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Speaker 1: that sort of stuff, perhaps more than I would have

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Speaker 1: if i'd done the degree. That ability to read an

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Speaker 1: extraordinary amount of information and be able to pick out

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Speaker 1: the nugget Like that's what I feel like. I've got

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Speaker 1: years and years of training in like how to work

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Speaker 1: out what's matters and what is peripheral, which I think

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Speaker 1: is very helpful in a lot of the work that

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Speaker 1: I do, you know, where you're curating a lot of

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Speaker 1: you know, I do a lot of work on stage

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Speaker 1: where you're pulling together kind of an array of ideas

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Speaker 1: and trying to help people make meaning of it, and

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Speaker 1: I feel like probably the law degree was incredible grounding

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Speaker 1: in that. Yeah, I agree with you, Like I think

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Speaker 1: the other thing is everything that happens alongside doing the degree.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm grateful every day for the fact my

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Speaker 1: vice chancellor at university on day one at our induction said,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you leave with just a piece of paper,

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Speaker 1: we've failed you if you don't go and study abroad

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Speaker 1: and volunteer and get involved in student organizations and all

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Speaker 1: of that. And I was probably the kid that took

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Speaker 1: that too far the other direction, and you know, decided

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Speaker 1: to go and do everything outside the classroom. You know,

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Speaker 1: I spent most of my life at UNI doing everything else,

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Speaker 1: you know, volunteering and building businesses and you know, working

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Speaker 1: overseas and doing bits and pieces. But for me, those

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Speaker 1: years are such an incredible opportunity to explore and to

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Speaker 1: play and to learn and to try. And I think

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Speaker 1: that's what's amazing about that period of university. Alongside whatever

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Speaker 1: you study, it's that freedom that you get. And I

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Speaker 1: hope people like really stretch the boundaries.

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Speaker 2: Of Yeah, I don't think that freedom to explore has

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Speaker 2: to end there either, But it's interesting that you said,

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Speaker 2: it was only later that you started to see the

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Speaker 2: benefits of that period of your life. And that's something

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Speaker 2: I love to emphasize on the show through stories like yours,

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Speaker 2: that the dots don't usually connect until much later on,

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Speaker 2: and finding your you know, finding your passion. It requires

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Speaker 2: a lot of patience and trust that everything will eventually

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Speaker 2: make sense, and you know, not to always be seeking

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Speaker 2: answers when we're not necessarily meant to know them at

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Speaker 2: the time, but to keep asking questions, which is something

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Speaker 2: that I read in maybe page three of your brilliant

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Speaker 2: new book that made me like, yes, less focus on

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Speaker 2: finding the right answers, but totally focus on asking the

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Speaker 2: right questions.

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Speaker 1: And I love that piece about trust, you know, trusting

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Speaker 1: yourself as well, and I think that's one of the biggest,

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Speaker 1: most formative pieces of work we each have to do

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Speaker 1: for ourselves, and I think for me, that's a lot

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Speaker 1: of the story of my twenties is learning to trust myself,

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Speaker 1: learning to trust that it is all going to be okay,

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Speaker 1: learning to trust that opportunities will come again, learning to

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Speaker 1: trust that, you know, I can find myself out of

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Speaker 1: a challenging situation. All those things that you've got to learn,

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Speaker 1: and really you can only learn through trying and failing

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Speaker 1: and having a go and all that sort of thing.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's absolutely critical. And I think to

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Speaker 1: your point, the other thing is that preparedness to ask questions,

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Speaker 1: which is a big flip from the world that we

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Speaker 1: got educated in, you know, and the world as it

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Speaker 1: was previously, which was a lot about the accumulation of answers,

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Speaker 1: and now that we know there's a myriad of information,

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Speaker 1: we are saturated. It is such a noisy world. The

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Speaker 1: key is actually the ability to be able to ask

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Speaker 1: better and different questions and then to go on the

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Speaker 1: journey of how do I go about finding new and

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Speaker 1: better answers. But I think the quality of our questions

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Speaker 1: and the preparedness to focus on that and big question

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Speaker 1: askers is one of the most important things all of this.

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Speaker 1: As young leaders can be mindful of building our capability

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Speaker 1: on it's absolutely future critical skill.

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Speaker 2: Oh well, if anyone needed a sneak preview of your

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Speaker 2: incredible eloquence, they've had it before we've even reached five

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Speaker 2: minutes into this podcast. So I wouldn't blame anyone for

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Speaker 2: being a little intimidated by your intelligence and achievements, let

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Speaker 2: alone once we start adding things like full Bright Scholar

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Speaker 2: and Harvard Graduate nominee on Sir Richard Brandson's Smart List

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Speaker 2: of Future Game Changes and the US Embassy's Eleanor Roosevelt

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Speaker 2: Award for Leadership Excellence, among many other things. Which is

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Speaker 2: just the reason why I start every episode by asking

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Speaker 2: our guest what the most down to earth thing is

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Speaker 2: about them before we get into the story, to kind

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Speaker 2: of break the ice and remind us all that you're human,

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Speaker 2: even though I would insist that you're some kind of superhuman.

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Speaker 2: So what is something really normal about you? Oh?

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to think all my partner would say in

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Speaker 1: answer to this question, because I feel like that's always

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Speaker 1: a good indication of sort of what would they say

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Speaker 1: if I either they were asked a similar question. Probably

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Speaker 1: I love to bake. That probably surprises a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: So my big no myst thing is cooking and I

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Speaker 1: love baking. And I think one of the reasons I

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Speaker 1: love that is because it makes me feel really close

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Speaker 1: to my grandma I grew up. She's my favorite person.

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Speaker 1: She's ninety strong, and so much of my memories of

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Speaker 1: her growing up and where I think our special bond

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Speaker 1: started was in her kitchen, cooking and sharing recipes and

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Speaker 1: all of that. So I think that's a really big

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Speaker 1: one for me. The other one is I'm a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a walking jukebox. I can't sing to save myself,

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Speaker 1: but I have this ability to pick a word and

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Speaker 1: just start singing. If I might have said it on

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Speaker 1: the way ed to You just have the most eclectic

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Speaker 1: range of songs, Like I'm never quite sure where they

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Speaker 1: come from. I don't know that it's a good thing, certainly.

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Speaker 3: That's the other one is interesting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not in tune, but it's enthusiastic, let's put

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Speaker 1: it that way.

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Speaker 3: I love it. Well, that's very relatable.

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Speaker 2: I think all of us have one of those things

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Speaker 2: that we do even though we're like I see it place,

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Speaker 2: but I just enjoy it.

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Speaker 3: So I'm gonna do it anyway in.

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Speaker 1: My happy place when I'm singing. So you can all

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Speaker 1: deal with that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, amazing. Well, let's jump into the first proper section

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Speaker 2: of the show, Your Way to Ya, where we go

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Speaker 2: back to the very beginning of your life and make

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Speaker 2: our way through all the chapters that it took to

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Speaker 2: get you to where you are now, because I really

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Speaker 2: think it can be so easy from the outside to

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Speaker 2: assume that you've always known you'd end up here, demystifying

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Speaker 2: leadership for others and living your purpose every day for

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Speaker 2: those who might be a little earlier on in their journey,

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Speaker 2: or who were feeling very distant from their own driving passion,

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Speaker 2: or who don't even know what that is yet, I

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Speaker 2: think it's always helpful to remember that it was far

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Speaker 2: from an overnight success for you to get here. And

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Speaker 2: I'm sure you've been through many periods where you had

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Speaker 2: no idea where you would end up or even where

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Speaker 2: you wanted to end up. So let's start with your

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Speaker 2: childhood and what led you to the law and then

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Speaker 2: back out of it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I can do my best. I mean, I grew

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Speaker 1: up in Western Australia where we're both in Victoria now,

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Speaker 1: but I was born in the wild West. And I

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Speaker 1: mentioned Grandma already, but she's pretty formative to all of this,

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Speaker 1: because I think so much of my grounding of sort

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Speaker 1: of what I admired as a young person, what I

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Speaker 1: looked up to, came from her and my Grandpa, who

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Speaker 1: are seventy years married this year, and just an incredible

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Speaker 1: duo just got unbelievable, and the two of them I

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Speaker 1: remember quite vividly, and it's a story I opened my

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Speaker 1: book with like kind of I think each of us,

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Speaker 1: it's really interesting the first memory we have of ourselves,

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Speaker 1: or the first thing that we can kind of recalls

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Speaker 1: being formative, because there's something in that. I think there's

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Speaker 1: a lesson and a nugget and our truth often embedded

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Speaker 1: in that. There's something we meant to take and make

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Speaker 1: from those moments. And for me, that was shopping with

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Speaker 1: my grandma. I honestly can't remember whether I was four

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Speaker 1: or five. I was very little, and we were at

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Speaker 1: the supermarket in Scarborough Beach, if anyone knows Perth really well,

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Speaker 1: and we were going to the checkout. We were getting

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Speaker 1: stuff to buy I think, just food for lunch. It

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Speaker 1: was bread and milk from what I can remember, to

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Speaker 1: go back and make sandwiches. And there was this man who,

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Speaker 1: at that sage of my life, looked like a giant.

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Speaker 1: He was like six foot five, just enormous comparative to

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Speaker 1: my statue. My grandmother is all of like four foot

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Speaker 1: five or something of five foot maybe.

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Speaker 3: It was probably a twelve year old boy.

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Speaker 1: Your conception of like how things are in head, like

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Speaker 1: anyone over the age of ten is so old when

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Speaker 1: you're little, and everything like that, So you're absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: I could have been. But he was tearing into this

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Speaker 1: poor young girl that was on the checkout, and I

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Speaker 1: remember her face going bright red. Obviously she'd given him

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Speaker 1: the wrong change, and he was letting her know about it,

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Speaker 1: and it was mean and it was unnecessarily rude. And

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Speaker 1: before I could even blink, my grandmother had inserted herself

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Speaker 1: between this giant and this poor checkout girl looked like

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Speaker 1: she wanted to melt into the floor, and she pointed

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Speaker 1: her finger up at this man and she said, how

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Speaker 1: dare you talk to that young lady like that? You apologize?

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Speaker 1: And I just saw this guy stop in his tracks, sheepishly,

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Speaker 1: kind of like he truly stopped for a couple of seconds,

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Speaker 1: kind of going I don't think anyone had ever challenged

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Speaker 1: him like that before on how he interacted with people.

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Speaker 1: And he sort of mumbled sorry, and sheepishly grabbed his

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Speaker 1: things and ran out of the store. My grandmother proceeded

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Speaker 1: like nothing had happened, right, She just paid for her groceries.

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Speaker 1: You checked the young lady was okay and then wanted

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Speaker 1: out the door before she realized I was still like

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Speaker 1: wetted to the ground, deer in the headlights, going oh

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Speaker 1: my gosh, did that just happen? Like what did I

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Speaker 1: just see? And I just said, Grandma, that was so brave,

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Speaker 1: and she said, Honey, when you walk past it, you

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Speaker 1: tell the world it's okay. And I didn't understand a

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Speaker 1: lot of the power of the responsibility and the kind

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Speaker 1: of significance of what my grandmother said there. But what

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Speaker 1: I have loved about her every day of her life

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Speaker 1: is how she lives that and that's been an enormous

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Speaker 1: source of inspiration for me. And I think when I

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Speaker 1: look at you, when you talked about how you made

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Speaker 1: your decisions, I think so many times you can explain

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Speaker 1: a fork in the road or why I chose to

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Speaker 1: get involved in something or participate or say no or

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Speaker 1: yes to an opportunity based on coming across something I

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Speaker 1: couldn't walk past and going I've got to dig my

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Speaker 1: heels in here. I want to do something. Can I

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Speaker 1: make a difference? And that ran in parallel with what

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Speaker 1: do I need to do to build the skills? So

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Speaker 1: when I don't walk past something I can make more

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Speaker 1: of a difference. So who do I need to learn from?

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Speaker 1: What skills and capabilities do I need to understand in

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Speaker 1: order to be able to do that? But I think

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Speaker 1: for me anchors back to that moment of that idea

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Speaker 1: each and what I love about Grammar is it is

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Speaker 1: those little moments too. That is an interaction a lot

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Speaker 1: of people would have been silent in. That is an

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Speaker 1: interaction where it's really easy to be a bystander. And

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Speaker 1: one of the big things I'm passionate about is so

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Speaker 1: often I think when we talk about concepts like leadership,

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Speaker 1: we put it on someone else's that's above my pay grade,

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Speaker 1: that's only for people to run organizations of excise. Actually,

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Speaker 1: each and every one of us is a leader every day,

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Speaker 1: and those small moments are as important as the big movements,

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Speaker 1: and we need to really take responsibility for the way

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Speaker 1: that we show up in those whether it's thinking about

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Speaker 1: our own carbon footprint, whether it's thinking about you know,

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Speaker 1: the values that our household runs with, the way that

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Speaker 1: we show up for our friends, let alone our teams

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Speaker 1: and our work and our community. So I think for

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Speaker 1: me that's a big part of it and you know,

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Speaker 1: Grandma's always said I was born in perpetual motion. I

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Speaker 1: think I've always had this just level of energy and

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Speaker 1: vigor that comes with that. I think the way that

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Speaker 1: it's been grounded and anchored has been in that kind

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Speaker 1: of formative experience I had with her.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fascinating, and it's really interesting that you said

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Speaker 2: that we can all be leaders in big things, but

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Speaker 2: even in the really small interactions per day, including just

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Speaker 2: not like one of the things that if anyone who's

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Speaker 2: not a lawyer probably hasn't done this in as much

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Speaker 2: depth as we have, but is looking at acts versus omissions.

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Speaker 2: And sometimes I think if we feel like if we

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Speaker 2: don't act and we're not required to act, that that's fine,

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Speaker 2: like we haven't been part of the problem. But actually

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Speaker 2: sometimes witnessing evil and not doing anything about it is

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Speaker 2: just as bad as perpetrating it. So acually doing little

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Speaker 2: small things in your life, you know, that can be

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Speaker 2: as big a leadership as someone who, say, the school captain,

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Speaker 2: and who becomes president or who is leader of their

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Speaker 2: club or you know, whatever it is. I think leadership

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Speaker 2: doesn't have to be the being the top or the

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Speaker 2: first or the leader you know that having a title,

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Speaker 2: And I think that's one of the questions I wanted

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Speaker 2: to ask you next, because you have been a super

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Speaker 2: high achievers throughout your life. You were school captain. I

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Speaker 2: was going to ask if you think people are born leaders,

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Speaker 2: but it sounds like you feel like leadership can go

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Speaker 2: into every part of your life in the day to

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Speaker 2: day small things.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Completely, I think everyone is a leader, and I

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Speaker 1: think one of the things I'm passionate about is helping

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Speaker 1: people to realize their sphere of influence and to connecting

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Speaker 1: with their purpose and passion because I think really what

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Speaker 1: we need each of us to lead is to be

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Speaker 1: anchored in what makes us light up, What is it

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Speaker 1: that we want to be in the world. Who do

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Speaker 1: we want to be for other people? What is the

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Speaker 1: change that we want to see? And once we've got

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Speaker 1: that purpose and direction, you know, I think our ability

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Speaker 1: to then influence, even if that is about who you

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Speaker 1: want to be. Like, I know some people who are

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Speaker 1: just all about they want to be a source of

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Speaker 1: positivity and hope for everyone, and they're focus in every

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Speaker 1: interaction they're in with everyone is about how do they

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Speaker 1: bring that light, how do they bring that encouragement, how

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Speaker 1: do they be that champion for someone else, Just as

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Speaker 1: much as I know other people who've got the life

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Speaker 1: goal of, you know, being a leader of a country,

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Speaker 1: or setting up their own company that's going to change

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Speaker 1: the face of the world, or going and doing you know,

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Speaker 1: aid work overseas or whatever it might be. So I

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Speaker 1: think for me, absolutely each of us is born with

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Speaker 1: everything that we need to be able to lead and

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Speaker 1: to make the change that we want to see in

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Speaker 1: the world. I think one of the challenges is the

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Speaker 1: way that our society is structured and the messaging that

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Speaker 1: we get and what's rewarded and incentivized and not encourages

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Speaker 1: some of us and discourages others, and so some of

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Speaker 1: us who don't get that enthusiasm. And I often think that,

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Speaker 1: you know, particularly about friends of mine who are really creative,

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Speaker 1: we're so gifted in just the out of the box

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Speaker 1: way that they can see the world. I'm excited that

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Speaker 1: I feel like their skills are finally being acknowledged and

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Speaker 1: talked about as being as critical as we know they

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Speaker 1: are to the world in future. We keep talking about

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Speaker 1: creativity and innovation, but when I think about the messaging

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Speaker 1: they must have got in most of schooling environments where

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Speaker 1: you know, this is how you do things. It's largely

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Speaker 1: a rope learning curriculum. Creativity is not something you can

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Speaker 1: make a career out of. I go, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: think about all those creative leaders that we discouraged. We've

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Speaker 1: now got to help re encourage and re energize. So

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Speaker 1: I think a big part of it is actually that

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Speaker 1: for some of us, the kind of default environment of

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Speaker 1: society reinforced that you're a leader and that your skills

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Speaker 1: and capabilities are well served to go and lead, and

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Speaker 1: some of us didn't get that messaging. And I think

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Speaker 1: it's time we corrected that recognition and that balance, because

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Speaker 1: I don't think that's right.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, I totally agree with you.

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Speaker 2: And I think even as someone who happened to probably

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Speaker 2: operate and go through a system that favored my particular

399
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Speaker 2: interest and strength, I still was very clearly able to

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Speaker 2: see how that disadvantaged so many other people. And it

401
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Speaker 2: just happened that all the subjects I like were you know,

402
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Speaker 2: scaled up, and that all the things that I was

403
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Speaker 2: interested were rewarded all the time. And then yeah, I

404
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Speaker 2: often noticed that.

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Speaker 1: And the flip of that. So if I can ask

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Speaker 1: you you know, is that when you kind of default,

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Speaker 1: it's very hard to choose to off the well worn path, right,

408
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Speaker 1: So to do what you did and go, Okay, I've

409
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Speaker 1: been very successful at university. Everyone's got this idea of

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Speaker 1: where I'm going and this path is kind of almost

411
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Speaker 1: trodden ahead of me, and then you're going, Actually, that

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Speaker 1: doesn't light me up, that doesn't feel aligned to my purpose.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to step off that and do something different.

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Speaker 1: That's the flip. I think for people, we've been encouraged

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Speaker 1: because they feel this pressure to live out their purpose

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Speaker 1: a certain way. And I think being true to yourself

417
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Speaker 1: at acknowledging is it mine or is it a purpose

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Speaker 1: someone else has given me or projected onto me is

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Speaker 1: so important. I don't know if that was part of

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Speaker 1: your story, but I can imagine that being challenging.

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Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, and it was just it was a whole

422
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Speaker 2: I'm exactly like you in terms of that perpetual motion thing.

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Speaker 2: If I'm moving forwards, I'm gratified to a certain extent,

424
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Speaker 2: regardless of whether I actually cared about the direction I

425
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Speaker 2: was going in. I was like, I'm going fast, So

426
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Speaker 2: it doesn't really matter where I'm going because I'm getting

427
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Speaker 2: rewarded and promotions and like people are patting me on

428
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Speaker 2: the back and telling me I'm successful.

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Speaker 1: That feels good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it feels.

431
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Speaker 2: Good, Like even if you don't really like the day

432
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Speaker 2: to day of it, it still feels good because you

433
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Speaker 2: feel like you're you know, society thinks that you're doing

434
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Speaker 2: something worthy with your time. And so I think, like, now,

435
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Speaker 2: that's why I'm so fascinated in that whole productivity hamster

436
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Speaker 2: where that you can get on because busy and productive

437
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,000
Speaker 2: are really gratifying. And I reckon, you can go decades

438
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,800
Speaker 2: before you even realize whoa, this is someone else's idea

439
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,520
Speaker 2: of what life is about. And it did take a

440
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:23,200
Speaker 2: whole lot of unlearning, yes, and detaching myself from those metrics,

441
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,600
Speaker 2: those like measurable financial metrics that in the end, it

442
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,200
Speaker 2: turns out, aren't what lighted me up, but that it

443
00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,240
Speaker 2: did take, I reckon, like a five year re education

444
00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:35,200
Speaker 2: of myself to allow myself to embrace this totally different pathway.

445
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,080
Speaker 3: And now I think I'm just.

446
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,680
Speaker 2: Getting to that stage where I'm like, oh, okay, I've

447
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 2: totally let go of that old way of measuring myself,

448
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,080
Speaker 2: but I'm happy every day and I feel like I'm

449
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:46,760
Speaker 2: doing what I meant to do on this earth. So

450
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,840
Speaker 2: it takes a really long time, which is why I'm

451
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:54,119
Speaker 2: fascinated for you as well. How you ended up finding

452
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,439
Speaker 2: and forging the pathway to deliver the messages on leadership

453
00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,520
Speaker 2: that now you are delivering to exactly where they need

454
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:01,520
Speaker 2: to be and exactly in the way that they need

455
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,440
Speaker 2: to be done. But back at school, like, how did

456
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:06,760
Speaker 2: you start to figure out what that pathway was going

457
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:08,639
Speaker 2: to be for you? How did you even decide on

458
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,280
Speaker 2: law arts? Like in that system, you know, what is

459
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,720
Speaker 2: your decision making process about your future? Did you feel

460
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 2: that you were getting drawn into the typical successful intellectual pathway,

461
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,280
Speaker 2: Like that's what I felt. I just did it by

462
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:23,680
Speaker 2: default almost.

463
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:27,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think a combination of both really, So one

464
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,399
Speaker 1: of the reasons I chose so I did a law

465
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,600
Speaker 1: arts degree, but I majored in economics and I did

466
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 1: a minor in politics, and I think at a very

467
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,760
Speaker 1: ultruistic level, And it's actually one of the reasons I

468
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:39,879
Speaker 1: picked the UNI that I did and structure the degree

469
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:41,800
Speaker 1: the way I did, because they let economics be a

470
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,000
Speaker 1: social science and so I could study it under the

471
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,359
Speaker 1: arts faculty. And for me, the reason I wanted to

472
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,720
Speaker 1: do that was at a basic kind of altruistic level.

473
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,400
Speaker 1: If you if you want to change the world, I thought, well,

474
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:57,119
Speaker 1: you need to understand the existing political, legal, and economic structures.

475
00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 1: Like I've got to have a grounding in this. You

476
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 1: can't change something until you understand it. And there's a

477
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,920
Speaker 1: lot of reasons and history and vested interest in things

478
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 1: the way that they are, and there's also a lot

479
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:09,560
Speaker 1: of blind spots. You know, there's a lot of people

480
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:11,640
Speaker 1: who just can't see that it's not working, whether it's

481
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 1: not working for certain groups of people or certain parts

482
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:15,960
Speaker 1: of our society. And so for me it was a

483
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 1: want to understand that. But to be honest, I really

484
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,880
Speaker 1: didn't enjoy university. I enjoyed that period of my life

485
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 1: because of everything else I did. I found the way

486
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:29,199
Speaker 1: that we learned really traditional. I'm a kinesthetic learner, so

487
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,919
Speaker 1: I learned through doing. I learned a billion times more.

488
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:33,679
Speaker 1: And that's why I'm so grateful for that line. My

489
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 1: vice chancellor empowered me with by going and starting a

490
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 1: micro finance project and helping getting involved in small NGOs

491
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 1: and being involved in my local council on the Youth

492
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 1: Advisory Council and doing projects there and starting my own

493
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 1: business and dabbling in that and seeing what I could do,

494
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:52,880
Speaker 1: and then you know, the corporate opportunities. I was lucky

495
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 1: enough to get working from some incredible leaders, but for me,

496
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,439
Speaker 1: that was my playground. And I think one of the

497
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 1: most important things if I could go back and empower

498
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 1: myself with something even earlier and something I hope might

499
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 1: resonate for listeners. One of the most powerful things for

500
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 1: me in terms of setting my path was understanding how

501
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:16,119
Speaker 1: I liked to learn and building a learning environment that

502
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 1: worked for that. If I had tried to sit in

503
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 1: the classroom and absorb that way, I would have made

504
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,920
Speaker 1: it out the other side, but I never would have

505
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 1: understood the things about myself have developed, the clarity of

506
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:31,679
Speaker 1: the way that I thought I wanted to contribute to

507
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,879
Speaker 1: the world, all that sort of stuff, as I did

508
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,919
Speaker 1: by virtue of going out and dabbling and playing in

509
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 1: the way that I did. So I think that's one

510
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 1: of the biggest bits of advice, is the learning outside

511
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 1: the full walls of the classroom. How can you put

512
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 1: yourself where lightning might strike, where you might meet a

513
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 1: mentor where you might discover your purpose, or you might go,

514
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,680
Speaker 1: oh wow, could that person be a co founder of

515
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 1: a business with me? Or jeez, that's a community issue

516
00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 1: we're not doing enough about. How about I try and

517
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 1: do something. I think for me that that was the

518
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 1: pivotal part alongside the kind of learning journey inside the classroom.

519
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agree with that, And I think one

520
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 2: of the most interesting things I tend to hear now

521
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,879
Speaker 2: is people sort of feeling like they don't know what

522
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,400
Speaker 2: their purpose is or even what they really enjoy, which

523
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 2: I can identify with because back when I was starting

524
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,400
Speaker 2: to think maybe law isn't for me, I actually didn't

525
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 2: know what else I was interested in because I had

526
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 2: not had any time to continue extra curricular activities or

527
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,360
Speaker 2: hobbies or anything like that. But then when you ask

528
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 2: them or what are you doing to explore your passions?

529
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 2: Like what are you dabbling in? Or are you giving

530
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 2: anything new or red hot crack, often their answer is no,

531
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 2: And it's like, well, unless you're trying new, weird things

532
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 2: all the time, how are you actually going to have

533
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 2: any data points to figure out, you know, what else

534
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 2: you might like. But I think the flip side of

535
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 2: that is people like you and I who do tend

536
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 2: to love exploring everything.

537
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:48,400
Speaker 3: And I was the same.

538
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 2: I spent so long overseas doing committees in the Northern Territory,

539
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 2: like so many doing nexus like at the League, we

540
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 2: strordinary women like, there was entrepreneurship, politics, international policy, like

541
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 2: there were so many different things that interested me that

542
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 2: being multi interested is almost It's never obviously a burden.

543
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 2: It's a great thing and it's wonderful to keep your

544
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 2: options open, but it makes decision making very very different

545
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 2: does because you are so excited about everything. So did

546
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 2: you have an idea back then about what you are

547
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 2: like what you're doing now? Was that the end point

548
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 2: of I am trying to do all these different things

549
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 2: to culminate in a leadership position. Did you know then

550
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 2: or are you still just definitely not throwing things out

551
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 2: there to see what's stuck?

552
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: And you know what's fascinating? And I really resonated with

553
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 1: what you were saying earlier about kind of the plan

554
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 1: And you know that one of the things I was

555
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 1: fascinated by. And I remember going and having so many

556
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 1: conversations with mentors about in my early twenties when I

557
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: was studying my degree and trying to work out what

558
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: this degree was going to lead to and what I

559
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 1: was going to do with it. Was how like, how

560
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 1: did how did all these people that I admired put

561
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 1: it together? Like did everyone have this plan that had

562
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 1: just been perfectly carved and kind of they walked their

563
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 1: way through it. And I was convinced, you know, when

564
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 1: you have this hypothesis that you're wedded to. I was

565
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: wedded to this idea that they all had a plan

566
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:07,919
Speaker 1: and I was just missing the plan, and so I

567
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 1: had to find a way of working out how to

568
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: craft the plan. And then what was really fascinating to

569
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,919
Speaker 1: me was that everyone I would talk to, they were like, oh,

570
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 1: I never planned for this, Like my plan was to

571
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: go and do X, or I didn't even have a plan.

572
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 1: I just took opportunities or you know, whatever it was.

573
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: There was this inability in any way for me to

574
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: get validation of that hypothesis, and so eventually I.

575
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,400
Speaker 3: Abandoned that well yet to let it.

576
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 1: But it's true and I think about it, you know,

577
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,360
Speaker 1: I was reflecting on it the other night because I'd

578
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: hit it was sort of ten years since I've met

579
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: a particular friend and we were talking back over what

580
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: was happening a decade ago, and never in my wild

581
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 1: as dreams would I eve envisage doing some of the

582
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: stuff that I'm doing now having had some of the

583
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: opportunities that I've had. And I'm kind of convinced now

584
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 1: I've almost gone one eighty on it, and I'm really

585
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: of the opinion you need to have like a strong

586
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 1: sense of direction in terms of being angry it to

587
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: a purpose. And I loved what you said before about

588
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,159
Speaker 1: like just being happy every day. That is one of

589
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 1: the biggest signs for me in terms of the indicators

590
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:10,719
Speaker 1: of am I living life right? If I wake up

591
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: and I'm excited about the day. I used to have

592
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: this quote written actually on my mirror from Steve Jobs

593
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,400
Speaker 1: that said every day for thirty three years, I got

594
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,159
Speaker 1: up and I looked in the mirror and I asked myself,

595
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: do I love what I'm going to go do today?

596
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: And if the answer is no, for too many days

597
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 1: in a row, I knew something had to change. And

598
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 1: so I think that notion of do you love it?

599
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,400
Speaker 1: Are you happy? Is probably one of the biggest indicators.

600
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 1: So that notion in strong sense of direction, but loose

601
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 1: hold of the reins, like being open to opportunity. I

602
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: think it's so critical for young leaders like us and

603
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 1: those listening to this, particularly now because we are talking

604
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: about you know, I think when I graduated from high

605
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: school was we're going to have ten careers over the

606
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: course of our last lifetime. Now we're talking to year

607
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 1: twelve's about the fact they're going to have eighteen. There

608
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,880
Speaker 1: are careers that don't even exist yet that are going

609
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: to be a part of our lifetime and our experience.

610
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,400
Speaker 1: We've got to be up for that learning, unlearning, relearning

611
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: journey you touched on before, and so the idea of

612
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: having a plan, like things are not going to exist

613
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 1: as they do right now, and that's exciting. We live

614
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: in such a dynamic time, so I think a lot

615
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 1: of the skills that people in our parents' generation, our grandparents'

616
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 1: generation used to kind of guide their careers and things

617
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 1: like that don't work as well for our generation. I

618
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 1: hate the question, and I actually think it's a really

619
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: crap question to ask people. And I'm sure you've been

620
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 1: asked a million times. I know how I have, Like,

621
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 1: tell me where you see yourself in five years as

622
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,199
Speaker 1: a crap question unless we are genuinely talking about, like,

623
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: you know, a looser definition of impact, because the notion

624
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,959
Speaker 1: that you know you can step through a career ladder

625
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 1: or things are as static as they might have once been.

626
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: Where in our grandparents' generation often they took a job

627
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 1: and worked thirty year career for the one organization, or

628
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: they worked in the same industry. We can have so

629
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: many lateral moves and creative ways of applying our skills,

630
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 1: and so I think we need to be a lot

631
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: more fluid. But that means building different support. We need

632
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: to be really clear on our purpose and our values

633
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: because that's what guides our choices, and we need to

634
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: make sure we've got really great people in our support

635
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: structure who we can use as sounding boards as these

636
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 1: choices come up, who want the best for us, but

637
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: can be those sounding boards. So mentors and sponsors and

638
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: people that can be those support people to navigate all

639
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,479
Speaker 1: those different decisions. I think that's more important now than

640
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: maybe it might have been before. Oh.

641
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Like anyone who listens to the podcast regularly will

642
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 2: feel like I've briefed you on what to say, because

643
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 2: that is pretty much everything I believe about life in

644
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 2: one paragraph.

645
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 3: I totally agree.

646
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 2: And I often say, you know the why, once you

647
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 2: find your why, that generally stays consistent, and that represents

648
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 2: purpose and values and beliefs and all of those kinds

649
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 2: and needs day to day and what you want.

650
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 3: But the how is going to change.

651
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 2: And as long as the why is staying the same,

652
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter that the iterations of the how change chapters, chapter,

653
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 2: and fact. That's the exciting part that you never started.

654
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 2: And if I was the same.

655
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 3: In five years, I'd be concerned totally.

656
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 2: I think I hadn't evolved in five years time, while

657
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 2: the world's like moving so quickly around you.

658
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: We're such kindred spirits. I say that all the time.

659
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: I love that.

660
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I also think something interesting about the being

661
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 2: happy every day thing. That is what old me didn't

662
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 2: understand before I did have this big re education of,

663
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 2: you know, changing the metrics that I used to measure

664
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 2: my life. Old me didn't even ask that question what

665
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 2: was I happy or how was I feeling day to day?

666
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 2: Because everything was macro. It was what are my titles?

667
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 2: What is my job? What are the box TICKI things

668
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 2: at this level that sound fancy but what is the

669
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 2: point in like earning x amount or having this title,

670
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 2: or making partner or whatever, if day to day it

671
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 2: cost you your joy? And I think too many of

672
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 2: us make at the decision making point of our lives.

673
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 2: We make the macro decision and don't think on a

674
00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:59,239
Speaker 2: micro level what does that mean day to day? If

675
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 2: I got to hate that, I'm probably gonna hate that.

676
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: Like I find it so interesting that you talk about

677
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: old me and you made I want to be really

678
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: clear with listeners to I didn't get this right the

679
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: whole way through. I have only kind of honed this

680
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: view of the world by getting it horrifically wrong. You know.

681
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: It was diagnosed with depression in twenty thirteen and had

682
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: to completely go about resetting and recalibrating everything I thought

683
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 1: I knew about myself and how I showed up in

684
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: the world in the sense of reframing my relationship with

685
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: vulnerability shifting. And this is probably the biggest change in

686
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: my life. Managing energy, not managing time one of the

687
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: most powerful concepts I've gotten my head around changing the

688
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: values I was to your point, around the metrics, like

689
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: what am I measuring myself on? I'm measuring myself on values.

690
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: Now I'm measuring myself on how good our job I'm

691
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: going about, you know, delivering my impact on And I

692
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 1: think one of the bravest things we can often do

693
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 1: is being prepared to walk away from people and things

694
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: that no longer service, you know, those toxic environments that

695
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: want us to be a certain way under a certain

696
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: version of us. That we can do and we can

697
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 1: achieve it, but it's slowly eating us. It is chipping

698
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: away at who we are and our joy to your point,

699
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: and our energy, and nobody, nobody gets that right to

700
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: do that to you. But that's your agency. Only you

701
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: can set those boundaries and work out what that looks like.

702
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: So for me, as much as that is, you know,

703
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 1: the worst thing I've been through personally, it's also the

704
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: best thing because if I was not living life in

705
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: a sustainable and healthy and holy stic way, and I

706
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: wouldn't be where I am now if it weren't for

707
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 1: the recalibration that I had to go on there. And

708
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: I'm a much better person and leader and partner and everything,

709
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: I think for the fact that I went through that.

710
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: But if you can avoid kind of the burnout when

711
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 1: I look at it, and I go, there were warning

712
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: signs I should have seen there was a way to

713
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: be making these decisions earlier than having to hit a

714
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 1: wall first and then work out how to rebuild. So

715
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: I'd really to your point, people can start thinking about

716
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: the filter criteria for their choices now. Don't wait for

717
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: one of these kind of challenging life situations or difficult moments,

718
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: or for it to all just be too much all

719
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: of a sudden, in whatever that might look like for

720
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 1: you. You can start making those different decisions now.

721
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 2: Although interestingly, with you mentioning before about your big hypothesis

722
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 2: on successful happy people who are thrilled with their lives now, yeah,

723
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 2: looking back for me my theory now, particularly from doing

724
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 2: what two hundred episodes of this podcast, the one consistent theme,

725
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 2: which is like Unbreakable as a hypothesis, is that it's

726
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 2: the shit bits that get people there. It's not the

727
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 2: good bits where things work out and they make good

728
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 2: decisions and they just wake up going, oh, yes, this

729
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 2: is where I'm meant to be. It's actually those breakdown moments,

730
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 2: and maybe not a full breakdown, even though of course

731
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 2: as atypes we have to even high achieve at breakdown,

732
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 2: so of course we go like a full A plus burnout.

733
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 2: But almost everyone has found that those formative moments are

734
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 2: the tougher ones where you do get it wrong, but

735
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 2: that's what guides you back to wear like, onto the

736
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 2: right track again. And you can't know those limits unless

737
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 2: you push yourself to them. And I think that that's

738
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 2: part of the thing that you need to embrace about

739
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 2: the journey is it's not going to be rosy and great,

740
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 2: and it is going to involve bits where you like,

741
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 2: I don't this is.

742
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:19,359
Speaker 3: Not what I want.

743
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 2: But that's just as valuable as data for where you

744
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 2: do want to end up as figuring out what you like.

745
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 2: What you don't like is valuable to know because some

746
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 2: people have no idea of either thing, and they're just

747
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 2: coasting along doing what they're doing, just because that's where

748
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 2: you get on autopilot, because you're not trying lots of

749
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,439
Speaker 2: different things and getting feedback and going, okay, what less

750
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 2: of this, more of that. It's just do more of

751
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 2: what feels good and less of what feels bad, and

752
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 2: keep trying until you kind of get closer and closer.

753
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 2: I feel like it's just constantly tweaking until you get

754
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 2: more and more on an even pathway, but it takes

755
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 2: lots of distractions and fearing off paths to get there.

756
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:53,760
Speaker 1: I think the other thing too, what you're talking about

757
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 1: is that it's also a journey. It's not a destination

758
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 1: that idea of you don't ever fully arrive. Life is

759
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 1: not static. It's dynamic, and so circumstances and situations and

760
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,320
Speaker 1: opportunities are always changing. And so it's also getting comfortable

761
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: with the idea that this is a constant ebb and

762
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 1: flow that you're just rebalancing and recalibrating. And one of

763
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 1: the most important things you can do is learn how

764
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 1: to check in with yourself, whatever that looks like. You know.

765
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 1: For some people that is, you know, mindfulness and kind

766
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:25,399
Speaker 1: of deep breaths or yoga or meditation. For others it's

767
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: a lot more kind of journaling and they have a

768
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 1: framework for how they kind of reflect on things and

769
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 1: make sure they're calibrating in the right way. But whatever

770
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: it is, I think having some way of cutting the

771
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 1: noise out for yourself and really making sure that you're

772
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,399
Speaker 1: making a decision that's right for you and not one

773
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 1: that's right to your point. The pressures, the noise, what

774
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,399
Speaker 1: other people are saying, the distractions. I think that's really

775
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 1: important because the only things that like those distraction pulls

776
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,919
Speaker 1: from our white and the more that we can try

777
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,280
Speaker 1: and find tools and anchors that can keep us coming

778
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,879
Speaker 1: back to it and have that accountability, we'll all make

779
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 1: choices at times that stray us away from them. That

780
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: goes without saying, but yeah, I think just having those

781
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 1: strategies is really really powerful.

782
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 2: And so from that sort of big recalibration and aha moment,

783
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 2: it looks like the five or six years since then,

784
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 2: since the you know, twenty fifteen ish, has been enormous

785
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 2: for you, So founding Emergent, then co founding Energy Disruptors,

786
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 2: going back to UNI, to Harvard of all places, as

787
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 2: a full Bright scholar. Nonetheless, if you haven't heard of

788
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 2: the full Bright scholarship, it's the pinnacle of the academic world.

789
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 2: You're actually our first Harvard graduate on the show. So

790
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,240
Speaker 2: I'd love to know what that actually is like versus

791
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 2: what we think is like from like Leli Blonde. You've

792
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 2: interviewed some incredible people, you have a podcast, you've just

793
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 2: published a book, Like I feel like once you do

794
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 2: change your energy towards your purpose and the things that

795
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 2: make you feel good. I think when I look back,

796
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have even aimed for some of the things

797
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 2: I do now because I just couldn't have conceived of

798
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 2: the fact that they'd be possible. So how has that

799
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 2: snowboard for you? What would you describe as what you

800
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 2: do now and what you want to do next, and

801
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 2: how all of that has come about, and how you're

802
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 2: seizing your ya now.

803
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 1: Oh, big question, that's a huge question. I know.

804
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 3: Sorry, there's like eighty five times.

805
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 1: And I completely agree with the whole notion of not

806
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,879
Speaker 1: even being able to conceive of certain goals. It's sort

807
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: of extraordinary sometimes when you look back and yeah, I

808
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: think that's one of the most important things I could

809
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,720
Speaker 1: say as an a type. And I know this will resonate,

810
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 1: Like we're very good at setting goals. The thing we've

811
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: got to be so mindful of is that we don't

812
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: become so fixated to those goals that we miss the

813
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: opportunity that looks slightly different or that's a little bit

814
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 1: you know, colorful or creative, or doesn't quite have the

815
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: packaging the way that we thought it might be, because

816
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:43,879
Speaker 1: that might be exactly what we were meant to say

817
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 1: yes to and golf and do. So I think that's

818
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 1: become a really important one for me, just leaning into

819
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 1: kind of saying yes to working out. One of the

820
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 1: things I love about what I do now and it

821
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 1: sounds like it's exactly the same for you, is I

822
00:37:55,719 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: love everyone I get to work with. I really enjoy

823
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 1: the work that I do and the diversity of it,

824
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 1: and that brings me so much joy, getting to work

825
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,959
Speaker 1: with great people on projects I'm passionate about every single day.

826
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 1: And that's not something I could have said about life

827
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: at different points of my journey so far. And it's

828
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 1: also the really and I don't know if you have

829
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 1: this the same way, but one of the things i'd

830
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 1: stress to listeners too is it doesn't stop people from

831
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: coming and still trying to tell me that I should

832
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:30,879
Speaker 1: be doing something different. I hear that multiple times a week.

833
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 1: A lot of people still want to project their wants

834
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 1: for me or their belief in what success looks like.

835
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: You really should go off and run this sort of company,

836
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: You really should be running for office, you really should

837
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 1: be doing those sorts of things. And so I just

838
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: remind people too that You've got to really be mindful

839
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 1: of the energy that you let into your orbit and

840
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 1: just understand that that's kind of safeguarding your truth, particularly

841
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 1: when you're choosing to march to an unconventional beat, which

842
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 1: is definitely I think the story of my career so far.

843
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 1: I'm not really boxable, which is something I find as

844
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: a strength, but it's also a challenge when you're interacting

845
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: with a lot of people who like to be able

846
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 1: to go, oh, so you do X, because really I

847
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: do a whole myriad of things. I'm lucky enough to

848
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 1: be a host and a moderator and a curator of

849
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 1: content for incredible programs and organizations across the world, and

850
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 1: I'm fortunate enough to get to do a lot of

851
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 1: leadership development work, and weirdly enough, and I'm now a writer,

852
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:31,879
Speaker 1: which is something I never thought I would be saying

853
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: about myself. Yeah, that one's very weird. I'm trying that

854
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 1: on the size at the moment. That doesn't quite sit

855
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 1: right yet. So a whole multitude of things, and I

856
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 1: love that because I think the heartbeat of when you

857
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: think about things that you love, they've often got common

858
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 1: threads to them, and one of them for me is

859
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: I'm insatiably curious, and so having diversity of the things

860
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:57,839
Speaker 1: that I do, so I'm always interacting with different sectors

861
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: and problems and minds is something that just means I'm

862
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,800
Speaker 1: constantly stimulated. And when I think, and it sounds like

863
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 1: something you were talking about before, when when you know

864
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 1: what's happening next, it's almost when I worry, I'm exactly

865
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 1: the same. That's why I was saying, oh, my, such

866
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 1: kindred spirits when you said that, because I think for me,

867
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 1: the dynamism and the diversity and the pace and the

868
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 1: change is what keeps me at my best. It's not

869
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 1: everyone's choice. Some people I deeply admire because they are

870
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 1: such technical experts and they're obsessively brilliant or focused on

871
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 1: a particular part of the puzzle, and that's awesome too.

872
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:35,879
Speaker 1: But for me, I think being able to know what

873
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 1: lights me up, not just in terms of, you know,

874
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: what my purpose is and kind of who I enjoy

875
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 1: working with, but also the dimensions that I need in

876
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 1: my day and in my week to be at my best.

877
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 1: That's one of my favorite things. And so at the moment,

878
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: you know, I just only graduated last month because of COVID.

879
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: I started over at campus at Harvard, then finished online

880
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: because we were obviously cut short the pandemic, I had

881
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 1: to leave the US when they closed campus. We just

882
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 1: spread the coronavirus. So I finished the last year of

883
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 1: the degree online. But one of the things I'm passionate

884
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 1: about is this whole leadership development leadership movement that I'm

885
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 1: launching with the book and with a whole series of

886
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 1: things that will come out in the next little while.

887
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 1: And I just want to invite more people to come

888
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 1: on this journey of evolution and growth and building these

889
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 1: skills and seeing what we can do together because we

890
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 1: need it. We desperately need it.

891
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:34,840
Speaker 2: Oh how exciting. I can't believe you're a harve A graduate.

892
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 2: What does that feel like?

893
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 1: Do you know what's weird is it doesn't feel real yet.

894
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 1: And I think because it was all online, there was

895
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 1: never really a sense of closure. Like theragination was sort

896
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:51,879
Speaker 1: of like watching a YouTube video and because God bless them,

897
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: they don't think of us in Australia and the time

898
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 1: zone here, so it was like at three am Australian time,

899
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 1: So I just like prop the laptop open on the

900
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:01,879
Speaker 1: bed and that was about it, but I.

901
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 3: Think not a pretty so I think in that way.

902
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: And I'm sure so many of your listeners can resonate

903
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:08,320
Speaker 1: with this, right Like, it feels like such an extraordinary,

904
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 1: privileged and first world problem to be talking about, you know,

905
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 1: a graduation not going the way that you might have

906
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:18,240
Speaker 1: envisaged originally. But I think for each of us, milestones

907
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 1: and achievements and challenges all took on a different form

908
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 1: to what we might have been used to in the

909
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 1: last twelve eighteen months, and that's a recon Like, I'm

910
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 1: one of those people that quite likes to bookend things.

911
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:31,479
Speaker 1: So you know, you start something, you do it, well,

912
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: you finish it, Okay, cool? What meaning am I making

913
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 1: of that? What amuff to do next? So the only

914
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 1: reason I say that is because in not that it

915
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 1: didn't happen over there. I care less about that, But

916
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: in my mind mentally, I don't feel like I have

917
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 1: closure on that chapter as such.

918
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally my.

919
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 1: Partner through year surprise graduation last weekend, which was really

920
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 1: wonderful and I think in many ways that helped achieve

921
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 1: that moment because it was bringing together so many of

922
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 1: my favorite people here. But yeah, it sort of doesn't

923
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 1: quite have the level, Like I wasn't living over there

924
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 1: for two years because that got cut short, and I've

925
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: kind of been in a hybrid world of studying, doing

926
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 1: night shift and working and what have you, So it

927
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 1: probably feels a little bit different, which I'm sure everyone

928
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:20,240
Speaker 1: who's graduated at university or year twelve or achieved anything

929
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 1: in their lives in the last twelve eighteen months and

930
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: sort of hasn't been able to celebrate or hasn't even

931
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,320
Speaker 1: been able to gather with people and have that acknowledgment

932
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 1: can resonate.

933
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,919
Speaker 2: With Yeah, yeah, totally, And I think it is hard,

934
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 2: particularly when you are insatiably curious. Acknowledging milestones is very

935
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,479
Speaker 2: difficult because then suddenly your brain's like a new one,

936
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 2: like yeah, okay, tick, I've done Harvard, but like what's next?

937
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:43,879
Speaker 2: And so it's even harder because without those big sort

938
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 2: of momentous events or acknowledgments, it's like you couldn't close

939
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 2: the chapter before, but let alone without these events, it's

940
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 2: even harder to do that. And I found with my

941
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 2: book coming out, it came out well when we're in

942
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 2: stage four, so there were no bookshops open, so I

943
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 2: still feel like it's not really out there. So when

944
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 2: I see mine, I'm like, oh my printed that.

945
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 3: At office works.

946
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 1: That's nice.

947
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 3: It still doesn't feel like a real thing.

948
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 2: But how would you say, because of that whole like

949
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 2: changing your metrics of measuring your life and also being

950
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:18,879
Speaker 2: someone who might fall into the trap of like going

951
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 2: to the next goal very quickly and not sort of

952
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 2: celebrating and acknowledging that, how would you now describe your

953
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 2: relationship to success versus happiness versus progress and dreams.

954
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: It's such a good question, and I think it's something

955
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 1: that there's been a lot of people who've helped me reframe,

956
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 1: Like I've found Carol Dwex work on growth mindset around

957
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 1: celebrating effort versus outcome to be one important reframe in

958
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 1: terms of just I'm always proud as be Like the book.

959
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,400
Speaker 1: I mean, it's due out this month. I have no

960
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 1: idea how it will go in the world, but I'm

961
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: so proud of the product I'm putting up. And that's

962
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:58,359
Speaker 1: the part I choose to be proud of because all

963
00:44:58,400 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 1: I can do. I can't control how people are going

964
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 1: to re to it, but I know how many hours

965
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,320
Speaker 1: went into that in terms of the interviews, the writing,

966
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:09,320
Speaker 1: the finessing it, and I believe it's got great value

967
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 1: for a lot of people in it and so I'm

968
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: proud of that. And I think one of the other

969
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 1: things really good mentor of mine Lane Beashley, who many

970
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 1: of you know from her surfing prowess. She used to

971
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 1: tell me a story that she's won seven world titles

972
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:28,439
Speaker 1: and there's one that she doesn't remember because she didn't

973
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,799
Speaker 1: stop and celebrate it. And so her lesson to me,

974
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 1: and this is probably some wisdom she passed to me.

975
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 1: And I think it was twenty fourteen when we'd had

976
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 1: sort of a big success with the G twenty and

977
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 1: I sort of wasn't coming up for her and keeping going.

978
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: This is sort of all in that period where I

979
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 1: was still recalibrating, is making sure in whatever way it

980
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 1: looks like for you, because everyone's different on how they

981
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 1: like to celebrate, how you make a marker of something.

982
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: And she used to say to me all the time, like,

983
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 1: how long do you think your head and body are

984
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:01,360
Speaker 1: going to keep up with operating at the intensity, with

985
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 1: having the energy. If when all that energy achieves something

986
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 1: that you're really excited about, you don't stop and celebrate

987
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:11,360
Speaker 1: and go, ah, that was awesome. You know that self reward,

988
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 1: not for anyone else's purpose, but your own right to say, wow,

989
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:17,319
Speaker 1: I'm really proud that all those hours produced that or

990
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 1: did that. Isn't that great? So I think that's really

991
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 1: helped me to kind of reset in that regard. And

992
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 1: so for me, like last weekend was so beautiful because

993
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 1: it was time with all my favorite people, just this

994
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 1: wonderful energy in the room. That was all I could

995
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 1: have ever asked for for a celebration. And so for me,

996
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 1: it was never about collecting a piece of paper. It

997
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 1: was just about having some sense of closure, and I

998
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,279
Speaker 1: think that went a long way to helping me achieve it.

999
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 1: But I think, you know, I'm a type stuff is hardwired,

1000
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 1: Like I will always be someone that has goals. I

1001
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: will always be someone who wants to do the best

1002
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 1: of everything I set my mind to, right, Like I've

1003
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 1: always got to want to do things well. I think

1004
00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 1: the thing that you get a healthier relationship with is

1005
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 1: just having a more holistic definition of success. So a

1006
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 1: lot of people, I think, kind of go the one

1007
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:11,280
Speaker 1: dimension of success is career, it's title, it's pay packet,

1008
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 1: it's whatever. It's not the incredible relationships I've got with

1009
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,319
Speaker 1: the people that I love and care about. It's not

1010
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,439
Speaker 1: how healthy my body is, it's not what we talked

1011
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 1: about before and how happy I am every day. And

1012
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 1: I think when you start bringing those things into your

1013
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 1: definition of success, life just gets so much more colorful

1014
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 1: and wonderful. And it doesn't mean that being the best

1015
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 1: at what you do and however you choose to ply

1016
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:39,840
Speaker 1: your talents and your craft doesn't matter. It always will,

1017
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 1: but it matters in context. And I think when it

1018
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:46,319
Speaker 1: becomes anchored in purpose versus the notion of kind of

1019
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 1: maybe more superficial metrics where they're more about I don't know,

1020
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:52,320
Speaker 1: something you're trying to prove to the world or wanting

1021
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 1: validation off others, then that changes that success factor as well.

1022
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 1: So I think mind's evolved quite a lot. I used

1023
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 1: to be someone previously who just want to to I

1024
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 1: think it was a volume game almost it was ticking

1025
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 1: the stuff off, and I don't know that it was

1026
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:09,320
Speaker 1: ever focused too much on other than wanting to test

1027
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 1: how much I could do and whether I could do it.

1028
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 1: But I think now I'm much more about quality I'm

1029
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:20,879
Speaker 1: much more holistic, and I'm much more about focusing on

1030
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 1: what's in my sphere of influence. I can control my effort,

1031
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,240
Speaker 1: I control the way I show up, I can control

1032
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:29,359
Speaker 1: the way I treat people. And that's what I'm going

1033
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:32,760
Speaker 1: to choose to value in terms of what I deem

1034
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:33,840
Speaker 1: success to look like.

1035
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:36,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. I actually had Gary Vaynerchuk on the show

1036
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 2: the year before, and one of the things that I

1037
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 2: love about him is he is using his platform to

1038
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 2: really push this idea of a happiness metric, Like why

1039
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,800
Speaker 2: would we measure our lives by anything else? It just

1040
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 2: doesn't make sense. It doesn't mean that financial metrics aren't important,

1041
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 2: Like we all have a livelihood, we all show a

1042
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 2: hierarchy of needs, and there's a reason why career is

1043
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 2: a factor in our lives. Doesn't mean throwing all those

1044
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 2: things out. But if you put happiness as a measure

1045
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 2: before you put everything else, like everything else falls into

1046
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 2: place when you have all those needs of joy and

1047
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:10,840
Speaker 2: family and connection, Like all those things come first, and

1048
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 2: then all the success metrics fall into place after that.

1049
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 2: It's like just flipping the triangle on its head, which

1050
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:18,319
Speaker 2: I think is really really valuable. I love that, which

1051
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 2: is why very nice segue into the last section, which

1052
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 2: is your playta, and that's the part where I love

1053
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 2: in your book. One of the chapters is go back

1054
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 2: to being four or something about remember who you were

1055
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:31,400
Speaker 2: when you were faced, And.

1056
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 3: That's exactly what this is about.

1057
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 2: Czda is called Czda because YA is juvenile, and it

1058
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 2: reminds me of not taking life too seriously and going

1059
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 2: back to that inner child that I think there's something

1060
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:46,800
Speaker 2: in the prologue or the intro that you said about

1061
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 2: how tragic it is that we lose that in social

1062
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:51,880
Speaker 2: curiosity that we have with children. We also lose that

1063
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 2: unfiltered ability to find joy and to find joy regardless

1064
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 2: of what other kids are doing to find joy. Some

1065
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:00,399
Speaker 2: kids love the sampit, some kids fucking hate us pit.

1066
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 2: But you don't get filtered by social expectations about the sandpit.

1067
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:05,800
Speaker 2: You just go in or you don't go in, dependent

1068
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 2: on what you like. And that's something I think we

1069
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 2: lose as well. Once we start to get expectations of

1070
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 2: norms of success and career, we stop making decisions based

1071
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:17,360
Speaker 2: on what am I good at and what do I like,

1072
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 2: and we make decisions based on what other people think

1073
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:22,479
Speaker 2: I should do, and then often people's big aha moment

1074
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:24,760
Speaker 2: is just circling back to what you could have guessed

1075
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 2: if you look at them as a kid. And I

1076
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:29,320
Speaker 2: feel like that's this beautiful circle of life, which is

1077
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 2: why plata for me is remembering never to let go

1078
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 2: of that so I never have to come back to

1079
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:36,359
Speaker 2: it again. It's just keeping close to that joy and

1080
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 2: not getting to the end of my life and thinking,

1081
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 2: even if I love my job, I don't want to

1082
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 2: get to the end of my life and think I

1083
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:45,280
Speaker 2: just worked and died. Like there's a place for pleasure

1084
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 2: and activities that art maybe not productive at all, but

1085
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:50,240
Speaker 2: that make you happy.

1086
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 3: So what's your plata? What do you do that's just

1087
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 3: for joy?

1088
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 1: Great question. I love that, and I love the focus

1089
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 1: that you have on It's one of the reasons I

1090
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:00,719
Speaker 1: resonated with everything you're doing with the pods, because I

1091
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 1: think that absolutely is a heartbeat of the book and

1092
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 1: it's something I'm very passionate about. Both the curiosity and

1093
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 1: you see it if you're around a small kid, you know,

1094
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 1: if you haven't been for a little while, borrow one

1095
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:15,360
Speaker 1: of your friends kids, go take them to the past.

1096
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 3: Plenty of them around right now.

1097
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:19,680
Speaker 1: Listen to the why why? Why? Why does that happen?

1098
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 1: Why does this happen? You know, the need to understand

1099
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 1: and make sense of the world, and the unfiltered nature

1100
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:27,360
Speaker 1: with which they ask questions, and the volume, Like it

1101
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 1: is sad what happens to us by the time we've

1102
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,839
Speaker 1: become teenagers with how few questions we're asking. And then

1103
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 1: the other thing, to your point, is is just that playfulness,

1104
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 1: like it is amazing trying to get a lot of

1105
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 1: adults to play it is just it's so embarrassing. I

1106
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 1: feel ashamed, you know, I'm not. I've got a certain

1107
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 1: way I need to show up in the world, and

1108
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 1: the inability to kind of be silly and be free

1109
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 1: is something that I think is unfortunate, a limitation for us. So,

1110
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,879
Speaker 1: I mean, for me, I love running. I think I'm

1111
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 1: one of my freest is when I'm just out in

1112
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 1: nature kind of not even with the sense of direction.

1113
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:02,880
Speaker 1: One of the things I actually like doing is running

1114
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:05,360
Speaker 1: and just seeing where my gut wants me to go.

1115
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 1: When we get to a fork in the road, are

1116
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 1: we going left from that? And just kind of going

1117
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 1: where I feel drawn on any particular day. I think

1118
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:15,880
Speaker 1: one of the other things, like other side from loving cooking,

1119
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 1: one of the other big things for me is I

1120
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 1: love the theater, and one of the best things I've

1121
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 1: done and done. I mean, I love being I love

1122
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 1: watching theater. But I also for a while during my

1123
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 1: Year of Fear I write about in the book, I

1124
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:30,839
Speaker 1: did three hundred and sixty five days of doing things

1125
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 1: I was afraid of with my best friend, and I

1126
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 1: started taking acting and singing lessons, and ah, that was joyous.

1127
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 1: I had the most amazing teacher, and I think that

1128
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:44,759
Speaker 1: makes a big difference. But the playfulness of singing and

1129
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 1: not being good at it, you know, but fully embracing

1130
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:49,720
Speaker 1: that and going with it. The idea of being thrown

1131
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 1: into a scene and taking on a character, I find

1132
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 1: that well fascinating. It's definitely one I don't have any

1133
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 1: form of professional skill set in and I resonate with

1134
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 1: that idea of doing something not for an outcome. But

1135
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 1: that was never the goal with any of that. I

1136
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 1: was never wanting to be an actress. I was never

1137
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 1: wanting to be a singer. It was just that freedom

1138
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 1: to play and explore, but under the guidance of someone

1139
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 1: who could play with you or help you play, because

1140
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 1: often when we're stepping into something that is not familiar,

1141
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:19,919
Speaker 1: it can feel really uncomfortable, so we need a little

1142
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 1: bit of guidance. So I regularly go to improv classes

1143
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:26,720
Speaker 1: just because I love that. Oh my god, it's live,

1144
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 1: it's energetic, and it keeps me on my toes and

1145
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:33,319
Speaker 1: I learn and I discover things about myself. So they're

1146
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 1: probably some of the things I do just for just

1147
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 1: for the sake of it.

1148
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 2: And I think that's so important because I find personally

1149
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:41,840
Speaker 2: and now I imagine even more so that you're the same.

1150
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:42,840
Speaker 1: Is it.

1151
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 3: Like it's very very hard to try.

1152
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 2: Something new and not try and be good at it

1153
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 2: and not try and master it, because it's in our

1154
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:51,800
Speaker 2: nature to want to do a good job at whatever

1155
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:55,240
Speaker 2: we do. So I found it incredibly liberating to find

1156
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 2: platya's or plays to ya. I still haven't decided what

1157
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 2: the plural is of platia that I'm never going to

1158
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 2: care about being good at that I will let myself

1159
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 2: just do because they're fun and not care that I

1160
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:09,120
Speaker 2: look stupid. But that's really difficult, Like it's actually a

1161
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 2: mental exercise to be like, do not make an a

1162
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 2: type exercise out of this, Do not try and be

1163
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 2: an Olympic gymnast, like, do not set that expectation for yourself,

1164
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:19,880
Speaker 2: because that kills the play.

1165
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:21,880
Speaker 1: Then. Yeah, and one of the things my partner and

1166
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:24,400
Speaker 1: I are doing now is we've embraced this idea of

1167
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 1: doing a creative date once a month and we alternate

1168
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:29,920
Speaker 1: who picture. But the idea is that it takes us

1169
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:34,319
Speaker 1: into a world. You know, we've gone to cooking classes, dancing,

1170
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:36,680
Speaker 1: we've done that kind of class where you go and

1171
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:39,520
Speaker 1: you learn how to paint. So all that sort of

1172
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 1: stuff is we got to interact your theater. Like. The

1173
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 1: goal is it's kind of choose your own adventure, and

1174
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:49,359
Speaker 1: each person takes us somewhere that's very unfamiliar and it

1175
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 1: is it's stuff that neither of us are good at,

1176
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:54,520
Speaker 1: but we do it for the sake of the experience,

1177
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 1: the shared learning and adventure together. But also because you

1178
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:00,080
Speaker 1: realize quite quickly how easy it is to get in

1179
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 1: rhythm with life, and it's really hard sometimes to just go,

1180
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 1: I need to be more creative when we're such creatures

1181
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:08,399
Speaker 1: of habit and there's so many demands on our time

1182
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 1: and our bandwidth is so stretched. So one of the

1183
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 1: things we've found is that discipline of just doing it

1184
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:15,560
Speaker 1: once a month, creating that night, that day, that couple

1185
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:18,879
Speaker 1: of hours, whatever it is, to just have that time

1186
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 1: out and to have intentionally created space to go and

1187
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:25,480
Speaker 1: do something out out of your world. That I really

1188
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:28,000
Speaker 1: encourage people, whether you're doing with a friend or a housemaid,

1189
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:30,319
Speaker 1: or doing it for yourself like I used to go

1190
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 1: on solo creative dates, or I just take myself to

1191
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 1: a gallery or I take myself somewhere that I might

1192
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 1: be inspired. Well, I'm finding it incredibly beneficial this trying

1193
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 1: this idea on. I don't know where it originated from.

1194
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:43,319
Speaker 1: I'm sure I should be giving credit to someone for it,

1195
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:46,399
Speaker 1: but it's it's been a really great addition to my life.

1196
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 1: So have a go, have a play everyone.

1197
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:53,240
Speaker 2: It obviously came from this podcast. I love the idea

1198
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:54,880
Speaker 2: of a year of fear too, because I think that

1199
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 2: is what holds us back so much, is our fear.

1200
00:55:57,160 --> 00:55:59,920
Speaker 2: But when you actually try or confront your fear head on,

1201
00:55:59,920 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 2: you realize most of the time you've just let it

1202
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:05,239
Speaker 2: snowball in your brain, like you're not actually that scared.

1203
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 2: It's not nowhere near as bad as you think it is.

1204
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:09,880
Speaker 2: And I find the same with self doubt, like whatever

1205
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:12,280
Speaker 2: scenarios are playing through in your head, once you actually

1206
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:14,279
Speaker 2: do the thing, you're like, that was nowhere near as

1207
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:16,400
Speaker 2: bad as my brain was letting me think, Like your

1208
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 2: brain will just take you out at all kinds of

1209
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 2: weird scenarios. But if you just confront your fear, you realize, actually,

1210
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:24,239
Speaker 2: you're so much more capable than you think you are.

1211
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:26,719
Speaker 1: Oh completely, we have this like apocalyptic version of what

1212
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 1: will happen if we do the thing we're afraid of.

1213
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 1: And one of the things I always say to people

1214
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 1: when you have that fear, and this is a habit

1215
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:36,000
Speaker 1: I sort of built through that year of conquering them

1216
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:38,440
Speaker 1: day after day and working out how to make it

1217
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:41,560
Speaker 1: a little bit easier for myself to do that, because

1218
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:44,239
Speaker 1: some days are really intimidating, depending on the nature of

1219
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:47,840
Speaker 1: the fear, is to ZiT down and actually write out,

1220
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:50,919
Speaker 1: like your worst case scenario of what's going to happen

1221
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,080
Speaker 1: if you do the thing you're afraid of. Because one

1222
00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 1: of the things you work out really quickly is you

1223
00:56:54,680 --> 00:56:56,840
Speaker 1: could be a soap opera writer in your free time

1224
00:56:57,160 --> 00:57:02,040
Speaker 1: if you wanted to oh we are so it's snowballs

1225
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 1: so quickly. We are so absurd. And you look at

1226
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 1: it and you read it and putting it down and

1227
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 1: writing there's something about anchoring our unconscious thought to our

1228
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:13,239
Speaker 1: conscious thought. You read it and you go, I'm being ridiculous,

1229
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:15,360
Speaker 1: And then you have to give yourself a likelihood score

1230
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 1: between one and ten, like ten being likely, one being

1231
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 1: really low. And I found that whole year, I never

1232
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:23,760
Speaker 1: got above a seven, and that was doing a whole

1233
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 1: myriad of things. And at the same time, when I

1234
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 1: write this stuff down, I'd be like, oh my gosh.

1235
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:30,960
Speaker 1: The fact I can laugh at myself, or I can

1236
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:33,920
Speaker 1: make fun of or I can see how ridiculous I'm

1237
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 1: being about what might go wrong just made it so easy.

1238
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 1: It's so much easy to push through it.

1239
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:40,920
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I cannot believe you just said that,

1240
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:43,520
Speaker 2: because there is actually a chapter in the CZA book

1241
00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 2: called Workshop Your Worst Case Scenario, which is right out

1242
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:50,720
Speaker 2: like workshop the worst possible scenario. Write it down and

1243
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 2: just look at it and see how stupid it is.

1244
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:53,720
Speaker 2: I cannot believe you just said that.

1245
00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 3: That's insane. I love that.

1246
00:57:57,320 --> 00:57:59,760
Speaker 2: Well. I've got two booken questions for the end of

1247
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 2: the episode to wrap things up. But there's one that

1248
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:03,680
Speaker 2: I forgot to ask, which is just a guilty pleasure question,

1249
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 2: and that is what was it like to interview Obama?

1250
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:10,160
Speaker 2: Because I feel like that's an incredibly important question that

1251
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 2: there aren't many people you could ask who would actually

1252
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:14,600
Speaker 2: be able to answer because they have interviewed him.

1253
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:15,560
Speaker 3: What was it like?

1254
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 2: And speaking of fear, were you like shitting your pants?

1255
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:21,520
Speaker 2: Were you decided like I would just be like what,

1256
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:23,440
Speaker 2: I'm not even at words? Aren't going to come out

1257
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:25,160
Speaker 2: like I might melt on the floor.

1258
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 1: It was funny, It was definitely. The preparation of the

1259
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:32,960
Speaker 1: questions was probably the most stressful part because I was

1260
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 1: just thinking, I really don't want to waste this opportunity.

1261
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 1: You've got this incredible So I think it was actually

1262
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:42,680
Speaker 1: less in the moment. I felt really calm, and he's

1263
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 1: very calming. He has a really calm energy to him.

1264
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:50,960
Speaker 1: So the experience itself was unbelievable, and there is so

1265
00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:53,240
Speaker 1: much I can say about that. But I think two

1266
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:57,120
Speaker 1: things really strike me about Obama. One was I think

1267
00:58:57,200 --> 00:58:59,520
Speaker 1: because he's so he's such an incredible orator and we've

1268
00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:02,720
Speaker 1: all seen him like late night shows and be very cool,

1269
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:05,280
Speaker 1: and he had an ability, unlike a few politicians, to

1270
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 1: kind of transcend demographics that we actually forget how extraordinarily

1271
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 1: academic he is. And sitting there as he'd unpack his

1272
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:17,600
Speaker 1: decision making and his thinking and how his layered approach,

1273
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:20,240
Speaker 1: you could just see how deeply he had considered the

1274
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 1: world and his positions on things. And not that I

1275
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:24,480
Speaker 1: should have ever not thought that to be the case,

1276
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:28,040
Speaker 1: but it was really striking just how the depth of

1277
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:31,480
Speaker 1: his intellect and how considered a thinker he was. And

1278
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 1: I think the second thing goes to one of the

1279
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 1: things I touched on there, which is he had a

1280
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:37,400
Speaker 1: really calm energy, which is not true of a lot

1281
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 1: of the politicians that you meet, where there's either a

1282
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:44,040
Speaker 1: need to assert their presence or almost a need you

1283
00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:47,400
Speaker 1: feel for kind of some gratification back, like they want

1284
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:50,360
Speaker 1: to impress you or they want validation. He is just

1285
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:54,840
Speaker 1: so secure in himself and there's a really calm energy

1286
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 1: that comes with that, And that was another thing that

1287
00:59:57,160 --> 01:00:00,040
Speaker 1: was quite striking about being in his presence, is it

1288
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:03,440
Speaker 1: it was a very calm and centered energy, felt very grounded.

1289
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:05,560
Speaker 1: Someone had clearly done the work to understand everything that

1290
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:08,320
Speaker 1: they were about before they decided to do all the

1291
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 1: work around what they were about in the leadership role

1292
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:11,479
Speaker 1: that they had.

1293
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:13,880
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, how fascinating.

1294
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:20,800
Speaker 2: I'm sure that's all people say about you too, So

1295
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:24,000
Speaker 2: one eighty flip back to the dumb stuff. Second last

1296
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:27,680
Speaker 2: question is more guilty pleasure things that just make people yay.

1297
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:29,520
Speaker 3: Does it get to know you better as a person?

1298
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:33,480
Speaker 2: What are the three interesting things about you that don't

1299
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:36,000
Speaker 2: normally come up in the interviews? And because you do

1300
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:40,480
Speaker 2: have a very intellectual presence in the world, sparking meaningful political,

1301
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 2: social conversations on podcasts, in your book and everywhere else

1302
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 2: on the interwebs, what are some of the dumber things

1303
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 2: do you do? Dumb stuff like binge on Netflix?

1304
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you'll binge on Netflix, don't we My god?

1305
01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 2: Okay, good now, But some people don't. Some people are

1306
01:00:55,280 --> 01:00:57,320
Speaker 2: so intellectual they're just like, I don't own it television.

1307
01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:00,320
Speaker 2: Oh no, Like okay, I can't relate, Okay, I.

1308
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 1: Need to zone out mentally. I'll quite often YouTube like

1309
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:08,720
Speaker 1: sn L highlights and stand up Yes, love all that world.

1310
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:10,720
Speaker 1: So that's one thing that doesn't really ever come up.

1311
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:15,800
Speaker 2: I do the Graham Notton show highlights so much fun.

1312
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:20,000
Speaker 2: It puts together groups of celebrities that you're just like,

1313
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:23,360
Speaker 2: they're so randomly unconnected, like from totally different worlds, and

1314
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:25,200
Speaker 2: they'll just be three of them on the couch together

1315
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 2: and each other.

1316
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 1: They pull out the most random facts about people and

1317
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:33,080
Speaker 1: just flop them in, and the conversation heads in all

1318
01:01:33,080 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 1: these directions that you are you'd never otherwise expect. So

1319
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:41,280
Speaker 1: that's definitely one, okay flip side though I have practically

1320
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 1: never seen any movies. I'm terrible. I do not have an.

1321
01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:46,880
Speaker 3: Okay.

1322
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:50,360
Speaker 1: It's just like so whenever anyone mentions a movie, I

1323
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:52,560
Speaker 1: might haven't seen it, haven't seen. I'm terrible. You don't

1324
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:55,280
Speaker 1: want me on the pop culture section of a pop quiz.

1325
01:01:55,400 --> 01:01:57,160
Speaker 3: Because I forget good to know.

1326
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:01,080
Speaker 2: I'll put you on like the geopolitical, like public policy.

1327
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:03,320
Speaker 2: You gonna be on that team.

1328
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 1: That's probably two of them. And then I'm trying to think.

1329
01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 3: That's a great one.

1330
01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 2: What's something a partner would say about, like your sleep

1331
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:12,520
Speaker 2: habits or is there anything weird you do around food?

1332
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:14,920
Speaker 1: Or what would be the verdicts there? There could and

1333
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:17,960
Speaker 1: probably be a couple. Oh, I think probably that I

1334
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:20,800
Speaker 1: am pretty good at not sleeping, so.

1335
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:23,720
Speaker 3: Well, that's not a surprise at all.

1336
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:26,800
Speaker 1: No, I mean, I've been doing nightshift, so I was

1337
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:28,480
Speaker 1: going to say it's probably a little bit tweaked at

1338
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:30,800
Speaker 1: the moment because I've been doing nightshift with classes for

1339
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:32,320
Speaker 1: the better part of the last year, so getting up

1340
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:34,440
Speaker 1: at eleven and PM and having to go through to

1341
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:37,560
Speaker 1: about four am, just for the last times with Boston.

1342
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:39,840
Speaker 1: The time difference is not great for this part of

1343
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:43,200
Speaker 1: the world, so that's been challenging. So I think quite

1344
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:46,479
Speaker 1: often I'll be up at random parts of the night

1345
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 1: and just so I'll do some of my best thinking.

1346
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:52,400
Speaker 1: I think sometimes in the very wee hours of the morning.

1347
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:54,440
Speaker 1: But I'm a bit all over the place, and I

1348
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:57,800
Speaker 1: actually think, what's weird is I know I'm at my

1349
01:02:58,080 --> 01:03:01,960
Speaker 1: best when I'm like that. So I actually know that

1350
01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:05,400
Speaker 1: something's not right when I'm sleeping for a long period

1351
01:03:05,480 --> 01:03:08,520
Speaker 1: of time. When I'm short of sleeping, I know that

1352
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:12,000
Speaker 1: I'm healthy, which sounds really weird and counterintuitive, and it's

1353
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:13,919
Speaker 1: not something I would say about everyone. It's just something

1354
01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:16,480
Speaker 1: I've definitely discovered in myself. If I need a lot

1355
01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:19,440
Speaker 1: of sleep, I'm running, I'm burning myself too hard, and

1356
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:22,600
Speaker 1: I need to recalibrate my long nights would be a

1357
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:25,720
Speaker 1: lower amount of sleep. So like probably a good amount

1358
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:27,600
Speaker 1: for me is like five to six. So if I'm

1359
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:30,160
Speaker 1: in like the eight to nine territory, I know that

1360
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:34,440
Speaker 1: I'm maybe not maybe mo working myself a little bit

1361
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:36,160
Speaker 1: too hard and need to change the balance.

1362
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:39,400
Speaker 2: That sounds very davinciesque, like I only need five hours

1363
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:42,120
Speaker 2: and I operate perfectly. My brain just needs five hours,

1364
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:43,720
Speaker 2: Like that's amazing, perfectly.

1365
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:47,320
Speaker 1: I feel like that's I know I'm rolling.

1366
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:50,920
Speaker 2: So my big breakdown was chronic fatigue. So if I

1367
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:53,000
Speaker 2: don't get eight or nine hours, I am not a

1368
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:56,000
Speaker 2: functional human being. Like I can literally close my eyes

1369
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:58,520
Speaker 2: now and sleep. I can sleep anywhere anytime.

1370
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:01,520
Speaker 1: That's incredible. Love that specialty. It's pretty great.

1371
01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 3: It's pretty great.

1372
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:06,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, And final question, what's your favorite quote?

1373
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:08,880
Speaker 3: The one that I know it's a hard one.

1374
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 1: Well, I think I could pick a lot because I

1375
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:13,480
Speaker 1: love quotes. I'm a words person, so quotes are sort

1376
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:15,480
Speaker 1: of all over my life and all over my wall.

1377
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:17,400
Speaker 1: But I think in asking that question, I've got to

1378
01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:19,560
Speaker 1: honor the one that's on the background of my laptop

1379
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:22,960
Speaker 1: and has been there for probably fifteen years. Wow, And

1380
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:26,160
Speaker 1: that is never doubt that a small group of thoughtful,

1381
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:29,080
Speaker 1: committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only

1382
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:30,080
Speaker 1: thing that ever has.

1383
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:31,440
Speaker 3: I love that.

1384
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:34,520
Speaker 1: One the saddest parts of the whole writing of the

1385
01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:37,960
Speaker 1: book Journey was actually discovering that that quote is probably

1386
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:40,440
Speaker 1: not from Margaret Meade, which is what it's attributed to.

1387
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:44,640
Speaker 1: You have to go take me so much backbinding, and

1388
01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:46,920
Speaker 1: one of the things that came back is she probably

1389
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:49,360
Speaker 1: never said that, but I'm choosing to believe that it's

1390
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:52,040
Speaker 1: Margaret's words. But irrespective of who said it, I love

1391
01:04:52,240 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 1: love that quote. So that would be my thing.

1392
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:55,520
Speaker 2: Oh that's such a good one and a beautiful way

1393
01:04:55,560 --> 01:04:57,880
Speaker 2: to finish. Thank you so much, Holly. You have so

1394
01:04:58,080 --> 01:05:00,560
Speaker 2: much wisdom and knowledge. And I think I think everyone

1395
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:02,040
Speaker 2: should go and buy the book. When is it out?

1396
01:05:02,040 --> 01:05:02,680
Speaker 2: What date is it?

1397
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:03,160
Speaker 3: Officially?

1398
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:07,320
Speaker 1: It's out on July twenty, so very soon now, and

1399
01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:09,400
Speaker 1: then all good bookstores are online where if you choose

1400
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:12,439
Speaker 1: to buy your books, it's called the Leading Edge. So yeah,

1401
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:15,120
Speaker 1: I would love to hear what people think about it

1402
01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:17,760
Speaker 1: and to start a new conversation about leadership and getting

1403
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:18,320
Speaker 1: the best out of here.

1404
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:20,760
Speaker 2: Well, I have just finished it and it is full

1405
01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:24,080
Speaker 2: of incredible knowledge and takeaways and very practical as well,

1406
01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:27,160
Speaker 2: lots of really interesting case studies and absolutely fascinating. So

1407
01:05:27,160 --> 01:05:29,240
Speaker 2: I'll make sure to put links to presale for now

1408
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:31,800
Speaker 2: and then from July twenty to actual sale.

1409
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:34,240
Speaker 3: Huge congratulations and thank you for joining.

1410
01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:36,040
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. I've been such

1411
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:37,280
Speaker 1: a pleasure against talk with you Era.

1412
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:40,880
Speaker 2: What a woman. Just being around Holly makes me want

1413
01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:43,160
Speaker 2: to soak up the most out of life and create

1414
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:45,600
Speaker 2: impact in my sphere of influence, as she puts it.

1415
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:48,320
Speaker 2: I hope you found her as energizing as I did,

1416
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:50,480
Speaker 2: and cannot recommend a read of her new book, The

1417
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:53,800
Speaker 2: Leading Edge more highly. Link to presale is in the

1418
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:57,720
Speaker 2: show notes now. As always, please do share any takeaways

1419
01:05:57,840 --> 01:06:01,320
Speaker 2: or AHA moments with the episode. Take at Holly, Underscore,

1420
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:04,480
Speaker 2: Ransom and myself so we can show our gratitude for

1421
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:07,800
Speaker 2: Holly sharing her wisdom and continue to grow the neighborhood

1422
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:11,320
Speaker 2: as far and wide as possible. I hope you're all

1423
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:15,720
Speaker 2: having a wonderful week and are seizing your ya