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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mumma Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 3: Hi.

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Speaker 2: I'm Grace Rubrey. This is Muma Me's twice daily news podcast,

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Speaker 2: The Quikie. Over the past few decades, dogs have gone

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Speaker 2: from living outside in kennels to sleeping in their owner's beds.

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Speaker 2: They have their own wardrobes, special meals, a place at

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Speaker 2: family gatherings, and even parties thrown in their honor. Yep,

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Speaker 2: dog birthdays. Have we crossed a line from treating dogs

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Speaker 2: like pets to treating them like children? Or is this

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Speaker 2: exactly how they should be treated? Before we dig into

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Speaker 2: this topic, here is the latest from the Quikie newsroom

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Speaker 2: for Tuesday, October eighth. Hesbela rockets have hit Israel's third

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Speaker 2: largest city as the country looks poised to expand ground

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Speaker 2: incursions in southern Lebanon. On the first anniversary of the war,

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Speaker 2: which has spread conflict across the Middle East, Iran back

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Speaker 2: to Hesbla. An ally of MAAS said it targeted a

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Speaker 2: military base with missiles. The spiraling conflict has raised concerns

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Speaker 2: the United States and Iran will be sucked into a

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Speaker 2: wider war in the oil producing Middle East. An Israeli

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Speaker 2: military statement said five rockets were launched from Lebanon and

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Speaker 2: interceptors were fired at them. The military also said her

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Speaker 2: mass targeted Israel's commercial capital, Tel Aviv with a missile salvo,

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Speaker 2: setting off sirens in central areas of the country beairuts.

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Speaker 2: Densely populated southern suburbs were again pounded by air strikes

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Speaker 2: overnight as Israel extended an aerial campaign on the area

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Speaker 2: where HESBLA has its headquarters. Attempts to meet environmental goals

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Speaker 2: in Australia are being undermined by activities that harm nature.

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Speaker 2: Ken Henry, the chair of Australian Climate by a Diversity Foundation,

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Speaker 2: is calling for a re evaluation of economic systems that

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Speaker 2: incentivize environmental destruction instead of restoration. Henry has criticized Australia's

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Speaker 2: role as a natural resources superpower, linking coal and gas

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Speaker 2: exports to climate induced environmental damage which the country fails

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Speaker 2: to account for. He highlights ongoing land clearing for agriculture

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Speaker 2: and logging, particularly in New South Wales and Queensland. The

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Speaker 2: topic is tabled to be discussed at the Global Nature

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Speaker 2: Positive Summit in Sydney on Tuesday, a three day event

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Speaker 2: to focus on solutions for biodiversity loss and necessary systemic changes.

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Speaker 2: Hundreds more Australians are expected to escape from Lebanon as

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Speaker 2: repatriation flights continue to bring people home. Australian politicians have

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Speaker 2: been calling on citizens to return home through whatever means possible.

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Speaker 2: Hundreds of Australians have been helped out of Beirut, with

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Speaker 2: three hundred and forty nine Australians and their families touching

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Speaker 2: down in Sydney on Monday night after taking a government

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Speaker 2: assisted repatriation flight operated by Qatar Airways. Another Quantas flight

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Speaker 2: is expected to arrive in Australia on Thursday. In the

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Speaker 2: past two weeks, Israel's bombing campaign has killed more than

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Speaker 2: fourteen hundred Lebanese people and left another one point two

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Speaker 2: million without homes. The King is set to pause his

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Speaker 2: cancer treatments during his high profile tour to Australia. Royal

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Speaker 2: doctors gave Charles permission to briefly hold the weekly cycle

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Speaker 2: in order to fly around the world for his keen.

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Speaker 2: Next visits, followed by a state visit to Samoa in

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Speaker 2: the South Pacific the long hold trip with the queen

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Speaker 2: is a major milestone for the king. The monarch, who

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Speaker 2: was diagnosed with an undisclosed form of the disease in February,

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Speaker 2: will receive treatment up until his departure and resume the

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Speaker 2: outpatient appointments when he returns to the UK. He will

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Speaker 2: be away for eleven days with the two are covering

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Speaker 2: nine days with two days of travel on either side,

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Speaker 2: and his entourage will include his doctor. That's your latest

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Speaker 2: news headlines. Next, have we turned our four legged friends

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Speaker 2: into something more than pets? And if so, is it

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Speaker 2: a bad thing? Or is this just the evolution of

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Speaker 2: modern day companionship. A few weeks ago I got a

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Speaker 2: birthday party invite from a friend us for a second birthday,

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Speaker 2: A dog's second birthday. Alice, could you please read out

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Speaker 2: the copy on the invite that you sent to me.

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Speaker 1: It's Pearl's birthday party.

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Speaker 3: Please join us for the big, beautiful ginger mermaid's second birthday.

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Speaker 3: All dogs welcome, Well behaved children and partners are allowed.

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Speaker 3: Please bring a plate on a ball.

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Speaker 2: And why did you make the distinction of all dogs allowed,

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Speaker 2: but just well behaved children allowed.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate that for some people. It's really important, and it's.

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Speaker 3: Fulfilling to have a child, but equally for me, never

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Speaker 3: having a child is very important. So having made that decision,

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Speaker 3: I don't want anyone else's bratty, poorly behaved child ruining my.

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Speaker 1: Corgy's second birthday.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to have a party every year from my dog.

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Speaker 3: That's a decision I've made and I've gone allw in

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Speaker 3: on this.

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Speaker 2: Somewhere along the way, our relationships with animals have deepened.

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Speaker 2: We're not just talking about dogs the occasional Halloween costume

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Speaker 2: or getting a treat for sitting. We're talking about dog

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Speaker 2: birthday parties, gourmet meals, and even dog therapy. In twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty three, dog strollers outsold baby strollers in Korea, a

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Speaker 2: stat that has their government worried about the dropping birth

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Speaker 2: and fertility rates. In fact, many countries are grappling with

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Speaker 2: low birth rates, and in places like China, heat ownership

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Speaker 2: is also climbing as birth rates decline. In twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 2: sixty one point two million Chinese residents owned nearly one

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Speaker 2: hundred million pets, an eight point four percent jump from

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Speaker 2: twenty eighteen. Similar patterns have emerged in Japan and Mexico,

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Speaker 2: where rising consumerism around pets and pet accessories reflects the

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Speaker 2: shift in how people are viewing and caring for their animals.

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Speaker 2: Pets are increasingly seen as family, providing companionship, friendship, and

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Speaker 2: unconditional love. For many child free families, pets are treated

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Speaker 2: like children. In fact, a recent survey of over two

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Speaker 2: thousand Australians found that nearly two thirds of dog and

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Speaker 2: cat owners now treat their pets like a family member.

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Speaker 2: The rise of the fur baby is showing no signs

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Speaker 2: of slowing down. After all, why would they sleep outside

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Speaker 2: at a kennel when we've shown that our beds are

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Speaker 2: so much cozier. According to Animal Medicines Australia, more than

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Speaker 2: two thirds of animal owners call themselves pet parents. As

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Speaker 2: well as giving their pets gifts for special occasions, they

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Speaker 2: leave the heating, cooling, lights or TV on to keep

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Speaker 2: them comfortable and anxiety free when they're alone. So let's

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Speaker 2: ask a dog owner. Ainsley Houston is a dog mum

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Speaker 2: to Edie, a five year old bulldog, and Ainsley has

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Speaker 2: spent years working with dog behavioralists to better understand what

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Speaker 2: our furry friends need. Ainsley, what are your thoughts on

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Speaker 2: animals living in the backyard or never being allowed inside

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Speaker 2: has really started to change. How is Edie integrated into

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Speaker 2: your life? And were you surprised at how I guess

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Speaker 2: part of the family.

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Speaker 1: She is, So I should have a bit of research

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Speaker 1: on this. And some people are calling them into species families.

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Speaker 1: I was raised that having a dog is a lifestyle.

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Speaker 1: It's not an accessory or an add onto your life.

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Speaker 1: It changes the way you live your life. So Eadie

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Speaker 1: is a core component of my partner in my life

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Speaker 1: and weekend we go out and we socialize and whatnot,

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Speaker 1: but we love to be at home, having a barbecue,

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Speaker 1: being with each other as like a little family unit.

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Speaker 1: She anchored me in a way.

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Speaker 2: In the conversation around pets becoming more similar to children,

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Speaker 2: like coming to events or being emotional support or being

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Speaker 2: allowed on airplanes. What are your thoughts on that. Should

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Speaker 2: they be treated with the same weight as children?

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Speaker 1: Oh, that's a tricky one.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 1: Part of a healthy relationship with your dog and raising

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Speaker 1: a healthy dog is that they are comfortable being on

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Speaker 1: their own and they don't have separation anxiety being on planes.

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Speaker 1: I completely understand because I wouldn't want to travel in

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Speaker 1: the suitcase compartment on the hell of their own plane.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if you would. I think

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Speaker 1: it'd be a loud and dogs so sensitive with the

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Speaker 1: hearing and sense of smell, I think it would be

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Speaker 1: utterly terrifying. So being on the plane in their own

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Speaker 1: cabin I think would work. But in terms of coming

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Speaker 1: out and going to events and whatnot, my question is

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Speaker 1: more is that what the dog wants, is that what

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Speaker 1: the owner wants. And if it's what the owner wants,

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Speaker 1: then I think, you know that is something to look

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Speaker 1: at as potentially being a little bit selfish or problematic.

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Speaker 2: As we treat dogs more like family, and like you said,

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Speaker 2: you've made a family unit. What are the things that

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Speaker 2: you've learned about Edie or things that you've potentially researched

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Speaker 2: to make her more happy in your life in the

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Speaker 2: way that she makes you happy.

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Speaker 1: I think what has evolved over the last couple of

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Speaker 1: decades is more of an understanding of dog's psychology and

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Speaker 1: us as humans being more aware of how our dogs

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Speaker 1: are constantly communicating with us. So one of the biggest

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Speaker 1: things that I learn with Edie is to learn hortels

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Speaker 1: learn when she is scared, when she is unsure, when

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Speaker 1: she's getting annoyed. Part of her having a happy life

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Speaker 1: is her being safe within our over populated cities. So

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Speaker 1: I live in the Inner West, it's dog city. There

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Speaker 1: are more dogs than children in the West, and so

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Speaker 1: part of me being able to live a good life

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Speaker 1: with Etie is knowing that when I take her out,

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Speaker 1: she's going to be okay with being close proximities with

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Speaker 1: other dogs other children. Think that, more than anything, is

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Speaker 1: how I ensure she has a good life her knowing

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Speaker 1: that I will be able to pick up when she's

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Speaker 1: not happy about something and pull her out of a

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Speaker 1: situation so she then doesn't have to react.

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Speaker 2: People could say this is too much, and you're treating

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Speaker 2: your dog like a child, like having those old school

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Speaker 2: ideas about what a dog is. What do you think

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Speaker 2: the consequences are when people aren't looking at their dog

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Speaker 2: as an individual personality and seeing what they need.

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Speaker 1: Well, I actually just think it's a little bit irresponsible.

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Speaker 1: It is our job to ensure that our dog is,

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Speaker 1: as I said before, not a danger to itself for

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Speaker 1: anything else in our community. I can truly understand people

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Speaker 1: saying that dying the dog's hair or putting clothes on

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Speaker 1: their jog. Yeah, I'm not sure that a jog wants

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Speaker 1: to be colored and put in different clothes. But in

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Speaker 1: terms of being higher aware of how your dog works,

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Speaker 1: that's just a prevention of a possible incident. If your

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Speaker 1: dog is in pain, if your dog doesn't like a situation,

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Speaker 1: if a dog is unsure, your dog will be reactive,

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Speaker 1: and reactive means can be misconstrued to aggressive and then

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden you're in the situation where you've

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Speaker 1: a complained. So it's actually about being on the front

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Speaker 1: foot and being so across that animal so nothing happens.

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Speaker 2: So when you say, like your dog is in pain,

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Speaker 2: it could be reactive. What types of things a you're

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Speaker 2: talking about, like if they have a sore, poor or

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Speaker 2: what are the type of things that you would be

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Speaker 2: on the lookout for and potentially intervene to ensure that

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Speaker 2: their behavior is safe for them and for people around them.

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Speaker 1: Well, obviously older dogs are going to have lots writers

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Speaker 1: they're going to have all those older symptoms that just

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Speaker 1: mean they're going to be grouchy. Younger dogs. My unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: Eatie had a lot of problems. The pick of the litter.

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Speaker 1: You know, everything that could possibly go wrong with her did.

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Speaker 1: She's had multiple surgeries. Lots of people saw that and

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Speaker 1: when I'm got there's so many surgeries, But I went,

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Speaker 1: I bought this dog, and so I committed to just

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Speaker 1: ensuring that anything that we could fix that would change

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Speaker 1: her quality of life, we.

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Speaker 2: Would Are there any procedures that you think people would say, Oh,

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Speaker 2: that's selective, she shouldn't have had that. A lot of

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Speaker 2: people would say, I'm only going to spend the money

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Speaker 2: if it's like a life or death procedure. What do

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Speaker 2: you say to that?

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Speaker 1: Well, I say, a pet insurance is incredible, Like my

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Speaker 1: pet insurance is absolutely incredible, and that's when you get it,

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Speaker 1: which you're going to get an animal, you need to

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Speaker 1: prepare for the worst. One of the things that people

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Speaker 1: may have been worried about is the fact that my

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Speaker 1: dog has a design of vagina, which is what the

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Speaker 1: surgeon called it is not what I call it, which

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Speaker 1: is actually a vulboplasty where they remove a part of

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Speaker 1: around the bulber that causes uties. She was getting recurring UTIs.

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Speaker 1: And if anyone's had a UTI out there or we

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Speaker 1: know what it can make us do we're cranky, we're

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Speaker 1: agitated with short views. I was managing it for as

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Speaker 1: long as I because obviously that was something that I

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Speaker 1: didn't want to put her through unless we absolutely needed to.

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Speaker 1: But just got to the point where I thought, why

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Speaker 1: I lived like this. We've got the surgery and it

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Speaker 1: was amazing. You know, she has been happier and healthier

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Speaker 1: ever since.

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Speaker 2: When people say, but they're just a dog, you know,

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Speaker 2: they can sleep outside, you can feed them rubbish, they

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Speaker 2: can be out in the elements they're meant to be outside.

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Speaker 2: What do you say to that.

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Speaker 1: Dogs and humans have been together for a very long time.

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Speaker 1: They are one of the longest domesticated animals, and you

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Speaker 1: can tell their relationship with humans to how their faces

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Speaker 1: have evolved to having an eyebrows in order to be

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Speaker 1: more appealing to us. They've evolved to fit with humans.

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Speaker 1: I think people underestimate the connection that a dog has

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Speaker 1: but their owner. I mean, there's studies that have been

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Speaker 1: done where a dog actually synchronizes their heart rhythms with

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Speaker 1: their owner, and when they're a part both of them,

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Speaker 1: the human and the dog have higher heart rate and

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Speaker 1: when they come together, it's immediate relaxation. There is a

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Speaker 1: heart connection literally between a dog and their owner. Having

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Speaker 1: Adia in my life is everything. She's literally the light

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Speaker 1: of my life. I smile every time awake up in

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Speaker 1: the morning. I'm excited for the day. But more so,

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Speaker 1: there is a companionship. Like I'm a writer being at

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Speaker 1: home for long periods by myself, there's someone there who

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Speaker 1: I'm not alone. It even just slows me down and

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Speaker 1: keeps me present, you know, going on walks with her

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Speaker 1: the day to day because at the end of the

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Speaker 1: day she is just waking up and wanting to live

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Speaker 1: her birth life. I guess she just kind of grounds

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Speaker 1: me and vice versa. She gives me companionship, support, unconditional love,

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Speaker 1: and so it's my responsibility to her to give her

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Speaker 1: the best life I can. So I'm going to take

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Speaker 1: it to the bed. I'm going to make sure that

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Speaker 1: she's in peak physical condition, and I'm going to make

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Speaker 1: sure that she lives a very long and happy life

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Speaker 1: because when I bought her, that's what I promised her.

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Speaker 2: So what else has science discovered about dogs apart from

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Speaker 2: their heart rates sinking with ours? New research out of

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Speaker 2: the US United Kingdom just this year discovered that dogs

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Speaker 2: can smell your stress, and that it affects their emotions

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Speaker 2: as well as their decisions, leading them to make more

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Speaker 2: pessimistic choices. And there's also the very well memed hit

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Speaker 2: of dopamine that we all needed in our lives. That

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Speaker 2: dogs dream about their owners, a fact discovered by Deirdre Barrett,

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Speaker 2: a teacher and clinical evolutionary psychologist at Harvard Medical School.

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Speaker 5: Humans dream about the same things they're interested in by day,

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Speaker 5: though more visually and less logically. There's no reason to

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Speaker 5: think animals are any different. Since dogs are generally extremely

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Speaker 5: attached to their human owners. It's likely your dog is

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Speaker 5: dreaming of your face, your smell, and of pleasing or

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Speaker 5: annoying you.

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Speaker 2: Here's another fact, John Bowby. That's the guy who coined

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Speaker 2: attachment theories the secure, anxious, disorganized, avoidant, and while it

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Speaker 2: originally focused on the bond between children and parents, it

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Speaker 2: also applies to the relationship between pet owners and their animals.

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Speaker 2: Just as parents feel a deep sense of caregiving and

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Speaker 2: protection towards their children, pet owners develop strong emotional bonds

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Speaker 2: with their pets. But it's not just a biological reaction.

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Speaker 2: Pets also influence our mental health. Elizabeth Shaw is the

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Speaker 2: CEO of Relationships Australia and New South Wales and it's

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Speaker 2: a practicing clinical and counseling psychologist. While we'd usually ask

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Speaker 2: Elizabeth about human to human relationships today, well it's a

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Speaker 2: dog's day, Elizabeth. Can you explain why we humans feel

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Speaker 2: so connected to our animals?

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Speaker 4: Look, I think part of it is the obvious joy

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Speaker 4: that domestic animals give us, in that there is a

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Speaker 4: lot of affection through to adoration, comfort and actual soothing

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Speaker 4: that comes from being with animals. Often they also are

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Speaker 4: kind of like the emotional glue in a family, so

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Speaker 4: you know, everyone gets on with the dog, even if

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Speaker 4: they don't get on with each other. So I think

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Speaker 4: they play a psychological role through to a therapeutic role

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Speaker 4: often in our lives. In addition, what we saw during

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Speaker 4: COVID is for people who lived alone in particular, the

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Speaker 4: need for companionship was very high because we are relational

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Speaker 4: beings and animals can play that role when otherwise people

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Speaker 4: might feel quite shut in or lonely. So I think

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Speaker 4: that really amplified our understanding of the importance of that connection.

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Speaker 2: Do you think there's a difference between this companionship as

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Speaker 2: you talk about and when people treat the animals like

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Speaker 2: their children.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think what we are seeing definitely more on

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Speaker 4: the agenda is the role of the range of animals

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Speaker 4: in therapeutic support and emotional sustenance, and seeing in fact

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Speaker 4: dogs being trained as emotional and even physical support in

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Speaker 4: having a role even in managing medication and medical incidents.

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Speaker 4: I think we've really gone beyond a peir is fun

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Speaker 4: for the family to say, actually, they could be important

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Speaker 4: for our survival. There are definitely people who you know,

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Speaker 4: the language around fur babies and people saying, oh, this

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Speaker 4: is my additional child, or we chose to have beagles

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Speaker 4: instead of children, where people I think are owning that

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Speaker 4: they have fleshed out a sense of family with animals instead,

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Speaker 4: and while others might scoff at that as not real,

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Speaker 4: the emotional connection can be as strong. Of course, we

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Speaker 4: can also disadvantage animals by babying them, because that's not

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Speaker 4: always in their interests, and sometimes it can set people

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Speaker 4: up for real problems in how they're managing their animals.

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Speaker 2: In this episode, we've talked about the positive effects that

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Speaker 2: humans have on animals, that they're sinking their heart rates

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Speaker 2: to their owners, or they're dreaming about their owners, or

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Speaker 2: they can smell when we're stressed. Do we know the

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Speaker 2: positive effects from a scientific and psychological perspective that an

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Speaker 2: animal has on us.

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Speaker 4: Look, they're definitely our studies and science that do demonstrate

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Speaker 4: that animals can have a positive effect in terms of

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Speaker 4: anxiety and self regulation. You know, for people who can

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Speaker 4: get very elevated or difficulty with emotional regulation or panic

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Speaker 4: or anxiety, a dog in particular or a cat can

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Speaker 4: play a very crucial role in terms of soothing and

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Speaker 4: that has an effect on the brain, you know, in

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Speaker 4: terms of calming oneself down. You know, literally stroking your

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Speaker 4: pet can be a form of self soothing. Now, there

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Speaker 4: are other ways to achieve this, of course, there are

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Speaker 4: all sorts of techniques in my profession that we assist

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Speaker 4: people with, but I think what's different with an animal is,

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Speaker 4: you know, the adoration that you can feel from an animal,

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Speaker 4: that they're really with you. It's not a technique that

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Speaker 4: you're doing, you know, like a really should walk around

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Speaker 4: the block, which is very much just you alone trying

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Speaker 4: to do something for your body. But when you're working

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Speaker 4: with an animal, there's also a sense of teamwork and

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Speaker 4: a bond which is quite different.

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Speaker 2: Doesn't it very different when a loved animal dies, society

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Speaker 2: doesn't give it the same weight as the death of

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Speaker 2: a human loved one. Do you think this is fair

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Speaker 2: and do you think they're comparable?

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Speaker 4: I think they're absolutely comparable for some people. Of course,

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Speaker 4: it's easy to scoff if someone has never had that

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Speaker 4: relationship with an animal or by a different role in

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Speaker 4: their lives. Certainly, for example, for farmers or other people,

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Speaker 4: they have a less romantic notion of an animal, but

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Speaker 4: they still hold the animal as a value. But for

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Speaker 4: people who really this has been their sense of family,

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Speaker 4: and animals can live for a very long time, so

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Speaker 4: it's really a big part of your history. You could

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Speaker 4: have a family pet that's been part of your entire childhood.

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Speaker 4: These are actually big slabs of time. So what we're

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Speaker 4: seeing is that more companies are bringing in death of

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Speaker 4: a pet as part of leave provisions to acknowledge the

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Speaker 4: level of grief that this could involve. And people have

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Speaker 4: often built their whole lives around the animal. For example,

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Speaker 4: just the people that every day they get up because

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Speaker 4: they walk the dog, and they walk the dog every

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Speaker 4: day before bed. There's an awful lot of little moments

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Speaker 4: that are part of building a structure for life that

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Speaker 4: can be quite shocking to unpicked. There's also the real

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Speaker 4: loss that you had that companion, You had a routine,

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Speaker 4: you had anchors in your life that were built around that.

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Speaker 4: You've lived together.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 2: So it's confirmed. Our beautiful fur children make our lives

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Speaker 2: better and we make their lives better. Thanks for taking

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Speaker 2: some time to feed your mind with us today. This

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Speaker 2: episode of the Quickie was produced by me Grace Riverrey

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Speaker 2: and our senior producer Taylor Strano, with audio production by

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Speaker 2: Tom lyon

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Speaker 1: Front