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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mama Miya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 3: Hi Kateline Brooke here dropping into your feed with a

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Speaker 3: very special gift. And I say gift because what you're

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Speaker 3: about to hear will fill you with all of the

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Speaker 3: warm feelings and it should make you want to call

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Speaker 3: your best friend. This is an episode of Holly Wainwright's

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Speaker 3: podcast Mid her guests Oh My Goodness, Amanda Keller A

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Speaker 3: Piece of Gold, and her beautiful best friend Anita McGregor.

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Speaker 3: You'll know Amanda from her many decades as an Australian

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Speaker 3: television and radio presenter, comedian, writer, actor and journalist, and

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Speaker 3: you'll likely be meeting her best friend, Anita, a forensic psychologist,

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Speaker 3: for the first time, but you'll very quickly understand why

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Speaker 3: these two have been inseparable since they first met seventeen

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Speaker 3: years ago. This conversation goes everywhere from the things your

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Speaker 3: friends can hold your hand true and what they can't,

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Speaker 3: and when or eve you should ever offer your best

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Speaker 3: friend feedback. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Mead.

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Speaker 2: I met my soulmate when I was eleven. The way

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Speaker 2: I remember it is that our respective mothers banned us

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Speaker 2: from going to some party or other, and instead it

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Speaker 2: was suggested that we have a sleepover together. We were furious.

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Speaker 2: Forty two years later and any time I get to

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Speaker 2: have a sleepover with my best and oldest friend Lindsey,

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Speaker 2: I will take it. It doesn't happen often because we live

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Speaker 2: on opposite sides of the world. When I was twenty three,

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Speaker 2: Lindsay was at London's Heathrow Airport to wave me off

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Speaker 2: as I traveled to Australia for a year long traveling adventure.

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Speaker 2: We cried and we cried, and that year has turned

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Speaker 2: into thirty thirty years. And yet if we get the

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Speaker 2: opportunity to spend even a few days together anywhere in

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Speaker 2: the world, those days are worth years, and we still

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Speaker 2: cry at airports. I also, as a fifty three year

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Speaker 2: old woman, still have regular sleepovers with another great maid

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Speaker 2: of mine, Penny, my treasure weekends away with a pick

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Speaker 2: and Mix bag of my closest friends. I have mates

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Speaker 2: I message daily and beloved ones I don't speak to

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Speaker 2: for months. I have new friends I already can't imagine

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Speaker 2: life without, and friends I share professional passions with to

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Speaker 2: whom I owe a great deal. I'm bragging now and

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Speaker 2: you know it. Because friendship, if you're lucky enough to

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Speaker 2: have it in your life, is the greatest privilege of

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Speaker 2: all and the thing that makes an enormous difference to

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Speaker 2: our happiness and our well being. And one of the

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Speaker 2: profound joys of getting older is getting to write new

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Speaker 2: pages into your friendship histories and mark birthdays. The losses

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Speaker 2: and the struggles, and the splits and the bad days

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Speaker 2: all scroll out across pages that bound together tell us

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Speaker 2: everything about ourselves and each other. I also have ex friends.

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Speaker 2: You probably do too, relationships that ended mid sentence, leaving

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Speaker 2: unsatisfying blank pages, and I've mourned them like old lovers,

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Speaker 2: and I've wrestled with how to heal rifts may be

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Speaker 2: left too long to revive. Because friends are the loves

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Speaker 2: of our lives, as the iconic, aspirational, sometimes toxic Carrie

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Speaker 2: Bradshaw's Girl Gang told us back when we were young,

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Speaker 2: and in the manner of loves of our lives, they

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Speaker 2: run the gammer of being the best and worst of us.

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Speaker 2: They lift you higher, and they break your fucking heart,

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Speaker 2: and respect must be paid here's a raised, steaming tea mug.

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Speaker 2: To the friend you can itch your hormone patch in

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Speaker 2: front of, who will walk beside you in your stupid

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Speaker 2: weighted vest, who will congratulate you for your teeny weeny

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Speaker 2: tomato harvest and agree that your partner is a dickhead

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Speaker 2: today and a hero tomorrow. Who sees you through your job,

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Speaker 2: through your children, through what your body's doing today. Who

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Speaker 2: knows your mum's not been well. Who knows when your

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Speaker 2: next appointment is. Who knows when to ask if you're

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Speaker 2: okay and when to shut the hell up. Who dropped

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Speaker 2: the meme of your dreams in the group chat on

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Speaker 2: a bad day, and will sing in the car with

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Speaker 2: you at the top of your terrible voices when life

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Speaker 2: feels right. The friends who know the backstory, who indulge

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Speaker 2: your tantrums just enough. To the deep grown up friendships

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Speaker 2: and the ones forged over silly shared enthusiasms. To the

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Speaker 2: ones who live next door and the ones on the

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Speaker 2: other side of the world, and the ones who aren't

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Speaker 2: here anymore. Soul mats all, Hello, I'm Holly Wainwright, and

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Speaker 2: I am mid midlife, mid family, mid midlife crisis Number eight.

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Speaker 2: We've been away for a while, and now we're back.

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Speaker 2: This is season four, a mid the show for gen

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Speaker 2: X women who are anything but, and over the next

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Speaker 2: eight episodes, I'm going to be talking to grown up women,

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Speaker 2: some of whom you know, some you'll be meeting for

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Speaker 2: the first time, who have great stories and spot on

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Speaker 2: insights into the things that make a life. I always

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Speaker 2: say we've got no time or tolerance for small talk

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Speaker 2: by the time we get here, but that doesn't mean

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Speaker 2: everything is heavy, quite the opposite. I know that right now,

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Speaker 2: I'm searching for conversations that cheer me, that soothe me,

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Speaker 2: that make me laugh, make me hopeful, distract me from

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Speaker 2: the enormous and tiny challenges that we're all wading through

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Speaker 2: every day in our real lives and out in the

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Speaker 2: big scary world. Some of the conversations we've got for

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Speaker 2: you here are about things like shamefree sex, and falling

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Speaker 2: in love again after a big split, about reinvention after

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Speaker 2: a massive career crash, about caring for our aging parents,

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Speaker 2: and about hair and a lot more too. So I

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Speaker 2: hope you I'm going to love season four. But today

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Speaker 2: I'm having a conversation about something I've been dying to

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Speaker 2: talk about with people I've been dying to talk to.

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Speaker 2: I think you probably all know who Amanda Keller is.

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you really quickly just in case, that she's

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Speaker 2: an accomplished and experienced media everything. She's a TV host

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Speaker 2: and an award winning rating topping breakfast radio legend. But

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Speaker 2: I'm going to stop talking because what I've got Amanda

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Speaker 2: to come in and tell us about was none of that, really,

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Speaker 2: even though we obviously go there a little bit. I

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Speaker 2: invited her and her best friend to come in and

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Speaker 2: talk about friendship. The person sitting beside Amanda in this

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Speaker 2: conversation is her equally accomplished and impressive best friend, Anita McGregor.

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Speaker 2: The two make their own podcasts together, which you'll hear

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Speaker 2: about obviously, but I predict that five minutes into this

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Speaker 2: you'll be as obsessed with Anita as I am, and

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Speaker 2: with their friendship. And now I really am going to

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Speaker 2: stop talking, because the first thing I asked Amanda and

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Speaker 2: Nita to do was to introduce each other through a

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Speaker 2: best friend's eyes to you.

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Speaker 4: Yes, Anita McGregor, by profession, is a forensic psychologist. I

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Speaker 4: only mentioned the profession is because it gives her an

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Speaker 4: insight into society that many of us wouldn't normally have,

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Speaker 4: and you do it with such kindness. I'm always amazed

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Speaker 4: at the respect you give your clients. These are people

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Speaker 4: who are before the courts, people who have transgressed, people

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Speaker 4: who might be major sex offenders, people who are living

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Speaker 4: really tough lives.

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Speaker 5: And the delicacy with.

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Speaker 4: Which you treat them and the respect you give them

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Speaker 4: and their place in society, I find is a very

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Speaker 4: refreshing take. So that's why you're a very interesting person

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Speaker 4: to have in the room to reflect on anyone talking

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Speaker 4: about society, life, rules, justice.

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Speaker 5: You're a great calming voice.

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Speaker 1: Thank you.

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Speaker 5: And she's a scrag scrag favorite strat favorites.

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Speaker 2: Well, the pressure is on them.

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Speaker 1: Something nice about that wasn't what was in my head.

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Speaker 6: This is my friend Amanda Keller, who, gosh, I would

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Speaker 6: imagine everyone in Australia knows of you that you are

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Speaker 6: a radio broadcaster, you are a TV star. You are

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Speaker 6: but you are also more than that. You are a wife,

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Speaker 6: you are a mother, you are a great friend, an

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Speaker 6: intrepid walker with me.

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Speaker 1: You are all those things and.

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Speaker 6: The thing that I think that is the most amazing

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Speaker 6: quality of you is that when people ask you know,

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Speaker 6: oh you know Amanda Keller, you know what she like?

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Speaker 6: And I think my response is generally, you know how

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Speaker 6: kind and generous she seems, you know on the air

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Speaker 6: on the TV. That's exactly what you get. She is

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Speaker 6: kind and she is generous and I love her.

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Speaker 5: Oh it's lovely.

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Speaker 2: And she didn't wood, not even once. Beautiful and nada.

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Speaker 2: You're from Canada, I am. And you met Amanda quite

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Speaker 2: early in your time in Australia, within about a month.

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Speaker 2: Can you tell me how we met? Story?

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Speaker 6: Oh, so we meet cute, I meet cute. Yes, so

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Speaker 6: we had moved here. It was supposed to be like

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Speaker 6: a two year adventure. My husband had been offered a

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Speaker 6: contract to work and I thought, oh, it's going to

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Speaker 6: be just such a fun thing.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know a soul.

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Speaker 6: I'd never been here, and we had rented a place

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Speaker 6: in Coujie at the recommendation of one of my husband's workmates,

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Speaker 6: and we had just got all the shipment in. I

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Speaker 6: was exhausted and I went for a massage with a

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Speaker 6: friend of ours, Jackie Racist, and she said, Oh, you're

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Speaker 6: new here, why don't you come there's a Dancing with

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Speaker 6: the Stars on which I didn't know. I had no

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Speaker 6: idea what the show was. And my friend and Amanda

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Speaker 6: is dancing in it. Why don't you come over and

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Speaker 6: watch this? And I thought this is weird, but I

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Speaker 6: went and I watched.

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Speaker 4: Because you didn't know Jackie either, I don't know how

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Speaker 4: jack here you had to step over the friendship divide

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Speaker 4: with her to beginning.

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Speaker 6: Yes, absolutely, And so saw you on Dancing with the Stars.

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Speaker 6: Had no idea, and then you invited us out to

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Speaker 6: it was a charity thing, and I went out and

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Speaker 6: met you there and all these people were pointing and going,

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Speaker 6: that's Amanda Keller.

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Speaker 1: I had no idea.

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Speaker 6: And then, you know, so we just kind of got

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Speaker 6: to know each other that way, with me just being

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Speaker 6: completely naive to you know, the world of Amanda Keller,

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Speaker 6: and which was really actually kind of a nice way

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Speaker 6: to do it, because I, you know, I think I

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Speaker 6: would have probably been intimidated or weirded out or something,

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Speaker 6: and I just wasn't. And so yeah, and then we

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Speaker 6: started started dating friendship.

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Speaker 5: Dating friendship.

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Speaker 2: When you're new in a new country, you have some

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Speaker 2: friendship vacancies that need filling.

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Speaker 6: Oh, It's a scary thing is on the one hand,

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Speaker 6: there's just this I can be whoever I want. But

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Speaker 6: on the other hand, it's like nobody knows. Like those

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Speaker 6: friendships that you have with people that you've known since

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Speaker 6: you've been kids, or university or kids, you know, when

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Speaker 6: you've had kids, and there's this kind of shorthand that

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Speaker 6: you have as a friend, and I didn't have any

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Speaker 6: of that. So there it was a double edged sword

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Speaker 6: for for quite a while.

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Speaker 2: It's like nobody knows me, and it's like nobody knows me,

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Speaker 2: but Amanda, you presumably didn't necessarily have very many vacancies.

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Speaker 2: How did Anita get.

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Speaker 5: Questions? She's got an enormous chick.

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Speaker 1: I'm for assistance.

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Speaker 4: I just think there was some hugely common ground in

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Speaker 4: our nature's maybe because I don't actually know how to

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Speaker 4: answer that question.

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Speaker 5: We would start to.

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Speaker 4: Go for walks as a group, but as a group

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Speaker 4: we would socialize, and then you and I kind of

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Speaker 4: splinted off at some point and we'd go for weekly

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Speaker 4: walks and just talk. And I don't know how to

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Speaker 4: be more specific than that. It kind of just evolved

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Speaker 4: really that it wasn't like we were starstruck with each

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Speaker 4: other when we saw each other and fell in love.

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Speaker 5: It just evolved.

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Speaker 4: And often in those big groups you form your little

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Speaker 4: factions within them. Factions is a harsh word, but your

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Speaker 4: little friendship groups within them. And we kind of splint

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Speaker 4: it off and made one of those a little satellite.

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Speaker 2: And was there a moment when you kind of went, oh,

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Speaker 2: we're definitely going to be friends or was it just

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Speaker 2: that slow burn? Oh I'm gonna I need to call Anita.

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Speaker 2: I want to tell Anita that like that kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: I really think it was a slow burn.

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Speaker 5: I think so too.

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Speaker 4: And it's interesting how much when people meet Anita as

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Speaker 4: a psychologist for you, but I reckon you. Probably a

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Speaker 4: see of people saying, don't analyze me, thinking that that's

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Speaker 4: what she'll do. And I laugh when I hear that.

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Speaker 4: But at the same time, I find it so interesting

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Speaker 4: that I blab about every single thing to you in

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Speaker 4: my life and you answer with friendship, never with I

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Speaker 4: never feel your sounds terrible, never being professional.

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Speaker 1: Your sometimes I really am.

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Speaker 4: There's never a you know what you should do, there's

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Speaker 4: never any of I never think, oh, that's right, you're

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Speaker 4: a psychologist. I never ever feel that we meet as friends,

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Speaker 4: and I don't know how you separate the two.

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Speaker 5: I don't know how you do that.

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Speaker 6: I you know, I think for the most part the

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Speaker 6: it well, because I've been a psychologist for over thirty years,

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Speaker 6: like half my life, more than half my life.

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Speaker 1: That it's you know, just the.

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Speaker 6: That main idea about I'm going to listen is, you know,

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Speaker 6: that's kind of my life as a psychologist, but it's

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Speaker 6: also my life as a friend. And I you know,

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Speaker 6: I don't give advice to my clients either, really, so

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Speaker 6: it feels pretty comfortable in doing that.

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Speaker 2: I think some people would be really jealous that you're

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Speaker 2: best friend's a psychologists, because you would imagine that you'd

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Speaker 2: be like, you know, we all go through things, particularly

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Speaker 2: midlife can get very rolling pastry, and you're like free therapy.

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Speaker 5: But it's interesting, it never feels like therapy.

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Speaker 4: But though maybe subconsciously, and I don't know if it's

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Speaker 4: subconscious for you, but maybe you're like a border Collie

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Speaker 4: like my dog that kind of just subtly hurts me somewhere. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and I'm not even aware of it.

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Speaker 2: I was listening to your show recently to double a Chattery,

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Speaker 2: and I think Amanda you were talking about and I've

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Speaker 2: been doing this too, reframing I have to with I

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Speaker 2: get to gratitude. And I was listening to your conversation,

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Speaker 2: and if I was in your shoes, Amanda, I would

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Speaker 2: have been looking for approval from Anita on that like that.

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Speaker 2: She goes, that's very good. I know.

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Speaker 7: I find myself saying to her, I read this incredible

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Speaker 7: theme in Dolly magazine, like I must tell you the

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Speaker 7: most basic psychological things I've read and you and like,

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Speaker 7: I've been seeing this incredible person. She said, I should

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Speaker 7: try this and you must go God.

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Speaker 2: But you were great, Anita, because you said something like

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Speaker 2: and how's it going for you? Like, which is a

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Speaker 2: therapistic thing to say in a way, but like, but

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Speaker 2: exactly what you need and you are like, it's helping,

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Speaker 2: it's helping. So I imagine that that is it's not

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Speaker 2: a deliberate dynamic, but it must be great.

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Speaker 4: But I never feel self conscious saying to Anita the dumbest,

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Speaker 4: most basic way I cope with anything, and you never

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Speaker 4: make me feel judged, and sometimes like it's only now

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Speaker 4: talking to you, Holly, I think, yeah, actually, how embarrassing

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Speaker 4: that I've said to Anita here's an interesting psychology you

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Speaker 4: probably haven't.

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Speaker 5: Heard Of't be grateful.

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Speaker 4: Apparently, it's really let me introduce her to it, Anita can't.

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Speaker 1: Let's try that.

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Speaker 2: Well, at the risk of doing the same thing to

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Speaker 2: it now, I was going to say that there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of studies out there that friendship is absolutely crucial

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Speaker 2: to our mental health, right and connection, and there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of sort of handringing about that. Maybe as a community,

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Speaker 2: as a world, we're getting less connected and we're finding

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Speaker 2: friendships harder because we fear the judgment that comes with it,

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Speaker 2: or we're not sure how to connect, or we're just

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Speaker 2: not in the same physical spaces to connect. I mean,

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Speaker 2: what do you inter One of the things that mid

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Speaker 2: listeners tell me all the time is it's their girlfriends often.

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Speaker 2: I mean, they're friends, but their girlfriends often that save them,

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Speaker 2: that get them through the hard times. Do you think

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Speaker 2: that we're in a crisis of connection? And are we

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Speaker 2: right to think that our friendships are the things that

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Speaker 2: keep us saying.

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Speaker 6: There's a big part of me that would just like

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Speaker 6: to answer, yes, it's a crisis. We need you know,

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Speaker 6: we've really disconnected and all that. But I was actually

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Speaker 6: just recently reading some research that really delighted me that

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Speaker 6: was talking about. It was mostly about adolescent mental health,

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Speaker 6: but what they were talking about is that often we're

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Speaker 6: looking about like how many friends do we have?

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Speaker 1: And you know, but the.

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Speaker 6: Research actually is much more supportive of having one or

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Speaker 6: two really good friends, and because once you get into

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Speaker 6: a bigger like any more than three or four and

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Speaker 6: we've all been there where you get into a bigger

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Speaker 6: friendship group and it does split into like not I

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Speaker 6: know you were saying factions, and sometimes it is, but

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Speaker 6: it's you know, it's like she likes me better, and

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Speaker 6: you know, you've get all the way left.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't invited on that wall.

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Speaker 6: Course, yeah yeah, or you know they've they've organized to

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Speaker 6: do something and I'm not there, And especially with social media,

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Speaker 6: that can be so hurtful. So I actually was really

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Speaker 6: encouraged by the idea that, yes, there is a disconnection,

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Speaker 6: and yet the answer isn't I need one hundred friends

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Speaker 6: and I need to be out and doing things every night.

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Speaker 6: The idea, sometimes, I think, is more about finding those

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Speaker 6: those opportunities to get deeper with somebody, to be a

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Speaker 6: little bit vulnerable with somebody, and to see whether you

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Speaker 6: can create that friendship you know, like you know, sometimes

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Speaker 6: it's not you know, just falling in love in a friendship,

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Speaker 6: but it's sometimes it is that slow burn. And you know,

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Speaker 6: there's there's also riches that research that says you need

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Speaker 6: to spend about one thousand hours with somebody to actually

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Speaker 6: create that depth, that that history with each other.

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Speaker 4: It's one thousand dollars a lot puts. What's that in

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Speaker 4: a context of a week or a year. I can't

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Speaker 4: do the meths on it.

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Speaker 6: I don't know, And I mean I don't know how

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Speaker 6: they count that. I mean, it is it just a

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Speaker 6: text to each other?

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Speaker 1: Does that count?

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Speaker 5: But?

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Speaker 6: I mean I think that we can connect in a

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Speaker 6: lot of different ways now.

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Speaker 2: Because people worry about their friendship connections faltering as life changes. Right,

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Speaker 2: so you two have been friends for the best part

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Speaker 2: of two decades. Right, busy people, big jobs in different ways.

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Speaker 2: How practically do you stay connected to your friends? Is

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Speaker 2: like little kids to big kids, Career shifts, geographical moves

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Speaker 2: like are you schedule people? Are you like it's every Wednesday?

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Speaker 2: I mean, how do you do that?

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Speaker 5: It's interesting.

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Speaker 4: Before I get to how we do it, I often

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Speaker 4: feel anxiety around the fact I'm not very good at

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Speaker 4: it with a lot of people and a text may

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Speaker 4: come up let's get together, and I have a panic

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Speaker 4: over it. I never do that with you, Anita, And

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Speaker 4: there are some friends where you go, I'll get to

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Speaker 4: you and I can get to you, or let's put

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Speaker 4: it in the diary for the future. I'm not really

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Speaker 4: I don't have time right now that can fill me

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Speaker 4: with anxiety, so I can limit my work. But sometimes

365
00:19:44,405 --> 00:19:46,565
Speaker 4: it's the social stuff that I find I'm not very

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Speaker 4: good at limiting, and that makes me panic.

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Speaker 2: I feel the same way.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And one of the reasons why we bought a

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Speaker 4: place on the South Coast was so that I could

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Speaker 4: say I'm not here this week because I will fill

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Speaker 4: every gap if people ask me to, whether I want

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Speaker 4: to or not.

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Speaker 2: Do you fill the gaps because you feel anxious to

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Speaker 2: have the space, or do you feel gaps as a people?

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Speaker 2: Please fill the gaps?

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Speaker 4: People, please, And to let people down and they're my

377
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Speaker 4: friends and I haven't seen them for a while, and

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Speaker 4: that's what friends do.

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Speaker 6: But you have gotten much better, or at least with me.

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Speaker 1: I'm saying no.

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Speaker 6: Of you know, kind of saying I don't want to

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Speaker 6: do this now, or I can't do this, or I

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Speaker 6: don't have the energy, or those kinds of which is

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Speaker 6: you know, I think a lovely thing that friends can

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Speaker 6: do with each other. But we and we're not exactly

386
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Speaker 6: schedule people, but other than we have a standing date

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Speaker 6: at least once on the weekend to go for a

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Speaker 6: while when we're in town.

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Speaker 4: And now that you've moved further away, that now involves

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Speaker 4: a car. We used to just meet down at the

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Speaker 4: beach and go for a walk, so one of us

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Speaker 4: has to get up half an hour earlier and be

393
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Speaker 4: ready earlier. The first time I went to Anita's new

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Speaker 4: place with my dog, I was very.

395
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Speaker 2: Rude of her to move, and I could feel it.

396
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Speaker 2: An you moved like a few So you've moved across town.

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Speaker 5: Yes, it's probably about half an hour away. Twenty minutes.

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Speaker 1: Twenty minutes.

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Speaker 4: Well, my dog must have taken it very personally because

400
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Speaker 4: when you went to Anita's new but she just had

401
00:21:07,605 --> 00:21:10,605
Speaker 4: the carpets, claimed many has never done this before. She

402
00:21:10,685 --> 00:21:12,325
Speaker 4: went in and did a giant whee on then.

403
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Speaker 5: You come out. It was awful, awful.

404
00:21:15,885 --> 00:21:19,405
Speaker 4: But I find also physically as things get harder for me.

405
00:21:19,565 --> 00:21:21,805
Speaker 4: I've had two hit replacements and I've got a thritis

406
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Speaker 4: in my back.

407
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Speaker 5: We all do it some we've all got stuff.

408
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Speaker 4: But there's some days we'll say to Anita, I had

409
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Speaker 4: I was filming this week or whatever it is, and

410
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Speaker 4: I stood up all week. I'm just too sort of

411
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Speaker 4: go for a walk. So I'm being more diligent with

412
00:21:33,645 --> 00:21:37,845
Speaker 4: myself in protecting myself. But I know I can say

413
00:21:37,845 --> 00:21:41,325
Speaker 4: that to you With other people, I may not know

414
00:21:41,325 --> 00:21:42,765
Speaker 4: I can say to you, sorry about that. I just

415
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Speaker 4: feel crap today.

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Speaker 2: Do you think it's the mark of good friendship. I

417
00:21:46,525 --> 00:21:48,645
Speaker 2: think I heard a conversation that you were where you

418
00:21:48,725 --> 00:21:52,125
Speaker 2: were talking about how a good friendship is someone can

419
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Speaker 2: come over to your house and you don't feel like

420
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Speaker 2: you have to tidy, you know, you have to feel

421
00:21:55,605 --> 00:21:57,405
Speaker 2: like you have to tidy the counters or whatever. I'm

422
00:21:57,445 --> 00:21:59,285
Speaker 2: not a natural hostess. It sends me into a panic

423
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Speaker 2: if somebody is coming to my house. But is it

424
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Speaker 2: also a sign of good friendship that when you do

425
00:22:04,605 --> 00:22:07,085
Speaker 2: say I just don't have the energy or there's just

426
00:22:07,165 --> 00:22:09,125
Speaker 2: too many other demands that they're not going to get

427
00:22:10,085 --> 00:22:10,925
Speaker 2: offended by that.

428
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Speaker 5: Oh?

429
00:22:11,205 --> 00:22:15,885
Speaker 4: Absolutely, And I'm trying to push through worrying about that

430
00:22:15,885 --> 00:22:17,605
Speaker 4: that this is what I have, this is what I

431
00:22:17,605 --> 00:22:20,685
Speaker 4: have to do to survive today. Not survive that's overly dramatic,

432
00:22:21,165 --> 00:22:23,325
Speaker 4: but you know I work hard all week as many

433
00:22:23,325 --> 00:22:26,085
Speaker 4: of us do stuff and stuff and stuff, and you

434
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Speaker 4: get to the weekend and think, I just don't have

435
00:22:27,325 --> 00:22:28,845
Speaker 4: anyemy to tick it up earlier this morning.

436
00:22:28,645 --> 00:22:29,245
Speaker 5: And go for a walk.

437
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Speaker 1: You're doing a very good job at ignoring my tears

438
00:22:31,965 --> 00:22:32,565
Speaker 1: that you know.

439
00:22:33,045 --> 00:22:33,685
Speaker 5: What's she doing.

440
00:22:33,925 --> 00:22:35,965
Speaker 4: She's put on the water works, hasn't she She's going

441
00:22:36,005 --> 00:22:43,285
Speaker 4: with the waterworks. But also what I love about our

442
00:22:43,365 --> 00:22:46,445
Speaker 4: friendship is that you mentioned before about being vulnerable and eata.

443
00:22:46,965 --> 00:22:50,205
Speaker 4: You can bitch and moan about your husband, about your parents,

444
00:22:50,245 --> 00:22:53,485
Speaker 4: about you, anything, and it's such a safe space that

445
00:22:53,565 --> 00:22:56,925
Speaker 4: you know that that isn't the mark of that relationship

446
00:22:56,925 --> 00:22:59,685
Speaker 4: that you're having. That's just how you're feeling Today's like

447
00:22:59,725 --> 00:23:01,805
Speaker 4: you could never tell your mum how you if you

448
00:23:01,805 --> 00:23:03,565
Speaker 4: had a fight with your boyfriend or your husband, because

449
00:23:03,565 --> 00:23:06,125
Speaker 4: they would never get over it, they'd mark them forever.

450
00:23:06,685 --> 00:23:09,445
Speaker 4: Whereas I feel quite safe sharing that stuff with you

451
00:23:09,565 --> 00:23:09,885
Speaker 4: when we.

452
00:23:09,885 --> 00:23:13,925
Speaker 6: Have I love early in our friendship, I think that

453
00:23:14,125 --> 00:23:16,685
Speaker 6: remember we had a conversation that one of us was

454
00:23:17,005 --> 00:23:19,925
Speaker 6: saying something about our husband, and you know, and and

455
00:23:19,965 --> 00:23:23,645
Speaker 6: we said, let's recognize that I might like if it

456
00:23:23,685 --> 00:23:26,245
Speaker 6: was me, I might be mad at Emmett right now.

457
00:23:27,165 --> 00:23:29,365
Speaker 6: And you get to hear this, but you don't get

458
00:23:29,405 --> 00:23:32,605
Speaker 6: to hear us make up. You don't get to hear

459
00:23:32,685 --> 00:23:35,605
Speaker 6: the conversation that happens after when we resolve things.

460
00:23:35,605 --> 00:23:37,525
Speaker 1: You don't get to hear any of that.

461
00:23:37,805 --> 00:23:43,005
Speaker 6: So you know, you need that cognitive process to kind

462
00:23:43,005 --> 00:23:45,045
Speaker 6: of say I get that, you know, I might be

463
00:23:45,085 --> 00:23:48,325
Speaker 6: mad at Emmett today, but you know we have a

464
00:23:48,365 --> 00:23:51,645
Speaker 6: long term marriage, and so we're going to get through it.

465
00:23:52,325 --> 00:23:54,445
Speaker 4: And that's the stuff you never see in popular culture.

466
00:23:54,765 --> 00:23:58,445
Speaker 4: You never see the boring bits in the middle where

467
00:23:58,445 --> 00:24:00,965
Speaker 4: things get resolved, because that's not interesting to anybody.

468
00:24:01,165 --> 00:24:04,285
Speaker 2: It's true, I often wonder this as we get older

469
00:24:04,285 --> 00:24:06,965
Speaker 2: and wise, there are lots of things happen. Do you

470
00:24:07,045 --> 00:24:10,925
Speaker 2: think friends, good friends call each other out when they're

471
00:24:10,925 --> 00:24:15,845
Speaker 2: being unreasonable, you know, maybe making choices that aren't good

472
00:24:15,885 --> 00:24:18,605
Speaker 2: for them, Or do you think that good friends are

473
00:24:18,645 --> 00:24:22,605
Speaker 2: always the supportive rock. That's what I'm always wrestling with

474
00:24:22,725 --> 00:24:25,645
Speaker 2: is whether you you know that where people say the

475
00:24:25,645 --> 00:24:28,285
Speaker 2: people closer to you should be the ones you say

476
00:24:28,445 --> 00:24:30,965
Speaker 2: you need to stop doing that thing, or whether they're

477
00:24:30,965 --> 00:24:33,405
Speaker 2: the ones who are the understanding ones. What do you think?

478
00:24:33,725 --> 00:24:38,685
Speaker 4: I'm highly sensitive, and so I judge the messenger very harshly.

479
00:24:40,645 --> 00:24:43,205
Speaker 4: And even though in an ideal world you say yes,

480
00:24:43,925 --> 00:24:46,685
Speaker 4: you're you know, practically you want your friends to tell

481
00:24:46,685 --> 00:24:48,565
Speaker 4: you that, I don't think I want to hear it.

482
00:24:49,245 --> 00:24:49,885
Speaker 5: How do you feel?

483
00:24:50,445 --> 00:24:52,285
Speaker 2: Yeah, like you know that friend And I'm not saying

484
00:24:52,285 --> 00:24:55,085
Speaker 2: any wanted this, but the friend who is always complaining

485
00:24:55,085 --> 00:24:57,125
Speaker 2: about their husband or their job or whatever it is,

486
00:24:57,925 --> 00:25:01,885
Speaker 2: or you know, something in their lifestyle. Always at what

487
00:25:01,965 --> 00:25:03,965
Speaker 2: point do good friends say? Hey?

488
00:25:04,805 --> 00:25:07,885
Speaker 6: I think it depends on the friendship. Like like you

489
00:25:07,925 --> 00:25:11,045
Speaker 6: and I have had that conversation that you know, if

490
00:25:11,085 --> 00:25:14,405
Speaker 6: I looked really terrible in an outfit, you wouldn't tell

491
00:25:14,445 --> 00:25:14,605
Speaker 6: me that.

492
00:25:14,685 --> 00:25:15,685
Speaker 5: I would never tell you.

493
00:25:15,725 --> 00:25:18,045
Speaker 6: They never tell even though I'd want to hear it.

494
00:25:18,125 --> 00:25:22,325
Speaker 6: Like I'm really big on feedback, and so I gut

495
00:25:22,565 --> 00:25:25,045
Speaker 6: that that would make you feel uncomfortable, even though I'd

496
00:25:25,125 --> 00:25:27,925
Speaker 6: like to hear it. And so, and I recognize that

497
00:25:27,965 --> 00:25:29,365
Speaker 6: you are sensitive, and so.

498
00:25:29,725 --> 00:25:32,925
Speaker 4: All my outfits terrible. It's all I've heard in this

499
00:25:33,085 --> 00:25:35,925
Speaker 4: entire conversation, she's mean to.

500
00:25:35,885 --> 00:25:36,485
Speaker 1: Talk to you about it.

501
00:25:37,725 --> 00:25:38,245
Speaker 5: We've had this.

502
00:25:38,325 --> 00:25:40,325
Speaker 4: We actually have had this conversation. I wrote a book

503
00:25:40,325 --> 00:25:42,645
Speaker 4: a number of years ago and Anita wanted to read it,

504
00:25:42,685 --> 00:25:44,365
Speaker 4: and I said, oh, here it is, just thinking, I'm just.

505
00:25:44,285 --> 00:25:44,885
Speaker 5: Passing it over.

506
00:25:45,165 --> 00:25:46,645
Speaker 4: And she said, how would you how do you take

507
00:25:46,685 --> 00:25:49,365
Speaker 4: feedback feedback?

508
00:25:51,765 --> 00:25:52,685
Speaker 1: Because I didn't know.

509
00:25:52,885 --> 00:25:55,005
Speaker 5: Like, I was like, you're an educator't me?

510
00:25:55,365 --> 00:25:57,725
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean that's my that's my life, you know,

511
00:25:57,805 --> 00:25:59,805
Speaker 6: teaching students and stuff and giving feedback.

512
00:25:59,925 --> 00:26:04,085
Speaker 1: So I'm I'm really like, I was like, do you

513
00:26:04,445 --> 00:26:04,885
Speaker 1: do you?

514
00:26:05,005 --> 00:26:06,685
Speaker 6: And then and it was like hmm, and so we

515
00:26:06,765 --> 00:26:10,805
Speaker 6: just that's a great book, Amanda.

516
00:26:12,245 --> 00:26:15,205
Speaker 2: I'm like, mate, your job is to tell me everything

517
00:26:15,245 --> 00:26:17,325
Speaker 2: I do is great, because there are plenty of other

518
00:26:17,365 --> 00:26:19,085
Speaker 2: people in my life we're going to tell me.

519
00:26:19,045 --> 00:26:19,485
Speaker 5: That it's not.

520
00:26:20,925 --> 00:26:24,725
Speaker 6: But I have friendships where I could say that too,

521
00:26:25,125 --> 00:26:27,725
Speaker 6: and I have colleagues that I you know, that's the

522
00:26:27,765 --> 00:26:31,085
Speaker 6: basis of our work relationship where we give each other

523
00:26:31,245 --> 00:26:35,085
Speaker 6: really strong feedback, and you know, certainly with my supervisors

524
00:26:35,085 --> 00:26:37,965
Speaker 6: and and that kind of stuff. So there, I think

525
00:26:37,965 --> 00:26:40,845
Speaker 6: it depends on the friendship, and it depends on the topic,

526
00:26:41,005 --> 00:26:45,485
Speaker 6: because there may be topics where you know, I may

527
00:26:46,005 --> 00:26:48,845
Speaker 6: think that I don't know, like I mean, if I

528
00:26:48,885 --> 00:26:52,925
Speaker 6: thought that you were being really overreacting to something.

529
00:26:53,205 --> 00:26:56,965
Speaker 4: Actually we had this conversation recently. Is that I was

530
00:26:57,485 --> 00:27:01,525
Speaker 4: overreacting to something. I was cranky about about ten things.

531
00:27:02,005 --> 00:27:04,085
Speaker 4: And you showed me a clip of a woman who

532
00:27:04,125 --> 00:27:06,485
Speaker 4: had a nail in her head and she was talking

533
00:27:06,485 --> 00:27:09,565
Speaker 4: to her husband and she was and she was saying,

534
00:27:10,205 --> 00:27:11,165
Speaker 4: I just don't feel right.

535
00:27:11,245 --> 00:27:12,285
Speaker 5: You're not supporting me enough.

536
00:27:12,285 --> 00:27:13,685
Speaker 4: And he's trying to say, we've got a nail in

537
00:27:13,725 --> 00:27:15,965
Speaker 4: your head, and she said, no, no, no, this this,

538
00:27:16,565 --> 00:27:17,845
Speaker 4: and he said, no, you've got a nail in your head.

539
00:27:17,845 --> 00:27:20,045
Speaker 4: And finally he says, oh, sweetheart, I hear what she's saying.

540
00:27:20,045 --> 00:27:23,205
Speaker 4: You're not feeling going. She's just thank you. And I've

541
00:27:23,245 --> 00:27:25,765
Speaker 4: been thinking about that a lot, because you probably observed me.

542
00:27:28,005 --> 00:27:29,685
Speaker 4: My husband's done well, and so I'm looking at the

543
00:27:29,725 --> 00:27:35,045
Speaker 4: world through a filter. And you were saying, you know,

544
00:27:36,045 --> 00:27:38,325
Speaker 4: you're seeing all this with a nail in your head.

545
00:27:38,605 --> 00:27:41,285
Speaker 4: I didn't know what to do about the nail, but

546
00:27:41,325 --> 00:27:43,525
Speaker 4: I thought, yes, but I am seeing the world. I

547
00:27:43,565 --> 00:27:45,845
Speaker 4: do have a nail in my head, so I didn't

548
00:27:45,845 --> 00:27:47,365
Speaker 4: know how to process the fact that I do have

549
00:27:47,365 --> 00:27:49,005
Speaker 4: a nail in my head. But that's one of the

550
00:27:49,045 --> 00:27:51,085
Speaker 4: only times where I thought, you're trying to tell me

551
00:27:51,125 --> 00:27:55,565
Speaker 4: something here. I'm not sure exactly what it is, because

552
00:27:55,605 --> 00:27:59,205
Speaker 4: I know that I know that I'm having a negative

553
00:27:59,245 --> 00:28:03,085
Speaker 4: moment or a depressive moment, or an angry moment where

554
00:28:03,125 --> 00:28:06,525
Speaker 4: I'm seeing everything through that veil and I'm aware of it.

555
00:28:07,285 --> 00:28:09,485
Speaker 4: But on the other hand, I think, well, here's why,

556
00:28:10,365 --> 00:28:11,525
Speaker 4: because some things.

557
00:28:11,365 --> 00:28:15,805
Speaker 6: Came pretty shite, and your natural stat is to be

558
00:28:15,885 --> 00:28:20,565
Speaker 6: optimistic and see things, you know, very positively. I cannot

559
00:28:20,605 --> 00:28:22,765
Speaker 6: remember what was going through my head at the time

560
00:28:22,805 --> 00:28:24,885
Speaker 6: I showed it. I you know that that it was

561
00:28:25,085 --> 00:28:27,365
Speaker 6: probably something that I had showed a class or something.

562
00:28:27,925 --> 00:28:31,725
Speaker 6: I probably was thinking about how hard you were seeing

563
00:28:31,765 --> 00:28:32,645
Speaker 6: the world at the time.

564
00:28:32,965 --> 00:28:36,005
Speaker 2: It's interesting because also you would have heard the term

565
00:28:36,045 --> 00:28:40,205
Speaker 2: a million times about toxic positivity, where we're encouraged by

566
00:28:40,325 --> 00:28:44,685
Speaker 2: pop culture and you know, sort of leaking for one

567
00:28:44,725 --> 00:28:46,845
Speaker 2: of a better term, therapy, speaking to everyday life, to

568
00:28:47,165 --> 00:28:49,285
Speaker 2: put a positive spin on everything and to see everything

569
00:28:49,325 --> 00:28:51,685
Speaker 2: as a lesson. And you know what am I learning

570
00:28:51,685 --> 00:28:54,685
Speaker 2: from this today? And I'm sure this you know whereas

571
00:28:54,685 --> 00:28:57,725
Speaker 2: sometimes things are just terrible shit and.

572
00:28:57,645 --> 00:29:00,365
Speaker 5: You need to sit in the shammer into your own hair.

573
00:29:00,525 --> 00:29:03,885
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, and just sit and feel the nail. Just

574
00:29:03,885 --> 00:29:04,525
Speaker 1: step field.

575
00:29:04,605 --> 00:29:06,325
Speaker 5: But it did give me a really good perspective.

576
00:29:06,405 --> 00:29:08,885
Speaker 4: I just thought, yes, I am being this today, and

577
00:29:08,925 --> 00:29:11,325
Speaker 4: I probably won't be this tomorrow, but I'm seeing a

578
00:29:11,365 --> 00:29:12,245
Speaker 4: whole lot of good things.

579
00:29:12,285 --> 00:29:13,365
Speaker 5: It was because I'm talking about how.

580
00:29:13,325 --> 00:29:15,165
Speaker 4: People were trying to help and I was getting cranky

581
00:29:15,165 --> 00:29:18,005
Speaker 4: at everything. I think that was it. I just needed

582
00:29:18,165 --> 00:29:19,285
Speaker 4: a shift in perspective.

583
00:29:22,245 --> 00:29:24,845
Speaker 2: More of my conversation with best friends Amanda Keller and

584
00:29:24,925 --> 00:29:30,605
Speaker 2: Anita McGregor after this short break stay with us. We've

585
00:29:30,645 --> 00:29:32,365
Speaker 2: touched on a couple of these in this conversation, I think,

586
00:29:32,405 --> 00:29:34,165
Speaker 2: but in which ways are you similar? In which ways

587
00:29:34,165 --> 00:29:36,725
Speaker 2: are you different? So we've acknowledged here that Amanda is

588
00:29:36,765 --> 00:29:39,565
Speaker 2: the sensitive one, and you would be more straight talking

589
00:29:39,605 --> 00:29:41,165
Speaker 2: if she wasn't such a snowflake.

590
00:29:45,565 --> 00:29:49,445
Speaker 4: Interestingly, I have a job where I get rated and

591
00:29:50,965 --> 00:29:54,565
Speaker 4: judged by ratings and constant I don't read a lot

592
00:29:54,645 --> 00:29:56,925
Speaker 4: of social media feedback because I just wouldn't be able

593
00:29:56,925 --> 00:29:59,885
Speaker 4: to handle it. So ironically, in my work life, it's

594
00:30:00,005 --> 00:30:03,245
Speaker 4: constant judgment and constant feedback and constant feedback.

595
00:30:03,365 --> 00:30:06,525
Speaker 2: I think that's probably why in your personal life you're

596
00:30:06,565 --> 00:30:06,925
Speaker 2: also a.

597
00:30:06,845 --> 00:30:07,245
Speaker 5: Bit like that.

598
00:30:07,685 --> 00:30:10,085
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's try to put the blinkers on. How are

599
00:30:10,125 --> 00:30:13,365
Speaker 4: we similar, Anita, let's ask the grown up?

600
00:30:13,765 --> 00:30:18,445
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, it is interesting that that. You know,

601
00:30:18,485 --> 00:30:21,085
Speaker 6: when we go to your place on the South Coast

602
00:30:21,125 --> 00:30:25,645
Speaker 6: and we spend a weekend together, we will spend days.

603
00:30:25,285 --> 00:30:26,525
Speaker 1: You know, what are we going to eat? What are

604
00:30:26,565 --> 00:30:27,045
Speaker 1: we going to do?

605
00:30:27,765 --> 00:30:31,845
Speaker 6: And we generally end up eating you know, sardines on toast,

606
00:30:32,325 --> 00:30:35,725
Speaker 6: and we end up reading books together or playing dominoes

607
00:30:35,765 --> 00:30:39,365
Speaker 6: when we can, and you know, so it's the similarities

608
00:30:39,445 --> 00:30:42,045
Speaker 6: are that that. It's a funny thing to say because

609
00:30:42,085 --> 00:30:44,005
Speaker 6: I tend to get up at about you get up

610
00:30:44,005 --> 00:30:46,765
Speaker 6: at what four for work, Yeah, And I usually get

611
00:30:46,805 --> 00:30:49,085
Speaker 6: up at about four thirty, just because that's when my

612
00:30:49,685 --> 00:30:52,805
Speaker 6: you know, my brain starts turning on. And so it's

613
00:30:53,005 --> 00:30:55,965
Speaker 6: I think that because we're both mourning people and we

614
00:30:56,085 --> 00:31:00,205
Speaker 6: both have very similar kind of rhythms about how our

615
00:31:00,725 --> 00:31:03,485
Speaker 6: lives and our work, you know, just go.

616
00:31:03,685 --> 00:31:04,485
Speaker 5: I think that's right.

617
00:31:04,565 --> 00:31:07,245
Speaker 4: And we do kitchen time very well together, yeah, which

618
00:31:07,285 --> 00:31:09,965
Speaker 4: I think is a big part of a great friendship.

619
00:31:10,365 --> 00:31:12,005
Speaker 5: Is that we plann what are we going to eat?

620
00:31:12,005 --> 00:31:13,245
Speaker 5: When are doing this and not being this?

621
00:31:13,285 --> 00:31:14,645
Speaker 4: And we chop chop chop, and I'm going to put

622
00:31:14,645 --> 00:31:17,245
Speaker 4: this on and we potter very well together and then

623
00:31:17,285 --> 00:31:20,485
Speaker 4: we sit down and read very well together comfortably.

624
00:31:20,925 --> 00:31:22,685
Speaker 5: You can't do that with everybody.

625
00:31:22,245 --> 00:31:24,085
Speaker 2: No, you can't. You can't do that with that. You

626
00:31:24,125 --> 00:31:27,165
Speaker 2: can't have that away time where you're not doing, doing

627
00:31:27,245 --> 00:31:29,725
Speaker 2: doing all the time. Is it hard to have a

628
00:31:29,725 --> 00:31:32,165
Speaker 2: friend who's in the public eye, Anita, a best friend

629
00:31:32,165 --> 00:31:35,565
Speaker 2: who's in the public eye, And do you feel defensive

630
00:31:35,605 --> 00:31:38,885
Speaker 2: of her? And when there's invasions of your privacy? And

631
00:31:38,925 --> 00:31:41,725
Speaker 2: do you not talk about work?

632
00:31:42,085 --> 00:31:47,365
Speaker 1: I am protective of you in that I don't.

633
00:31:47,445 --> 00:31:51,325
Speaker 6: I don't often like because you know, by my nature,

634
00:31:51,365 --> 00:31:54,685
Speaker 6: I'm quite private, you know, part of it's just who

635
00:31:54,725 --> 00:31:56,245
Speaker 6: I am, but it's part of it has been my

636
00:31:56,285 --> 00:32:01,205
Speaker 6: profession as well, and so I recognize the need for

637
00:32:01,565 --> 00:32:04,685
Speaker 6: some sense of privacy. So I'm protective of that. I

638
00:32:04,685 --> 00:32:07,405
Speaker 6: don't tell a lot of people that we're friends. I mean,

639
00:32:07,805 --> 00:32:08,325
Speaker 6: it's kind of.

640
00:32:08,245 --> 00:32:12,245
Speaker 2: Hard not to now now now you've got public we're

641
00:32:12,285 --> 00:32:13,525
Speaker 2: going to Esky podcast.

642
00:32:13,565 --> 00:32:15,005
Speaker 1: It is, yeah, so.

643
00:32:17,285 --> 00:32:19,405
Speaker 5: It must it might manifest itself strangely.

644
00:32:19,445 --> 00:32:22,325
Speaker 4: For example, when we went to see Kat Stevens and

645
00:32:22,365 --> 00:32:25,645
Speaker 4: this guy asked Anita to take a photo of me

646
00:32:25,725 --> 00:32:29,285
Speaker 4: and him, and then he came back after interval and said, well,

647
00:32:29,325 --> 00:32:30,205
Speaker 4: I've been looking for you.

648
00:32:30,285 --> 00:32:32,925
Speaker 5: That was a terrible closure, and.

649
00:32:36,085 --> 00:32:38,925
Speaker 4: I thought sorry for Anita because she hasn't asked to

650
00:32:38,925 --> 00:32:39,765
Speaker 4: be dragged into this.

651
00:32:40,765 --> 00:32:42,525
Speaker 1: It was hilarious. So I took a picture on the

652
00:32:42,565 --> 00:32:43,445
Speaker 1: top of his head.

653
00:32:44,725 --> 00:32:49,925
Speaker 2: Like you totally asked for talking about the podcast, because

654
00:32:50,285 --> 00:32:53,325
Speaker 2: your conversation, your chemistry on that is so brilliant, and

655
00:32:53,485 --> 00:32:57,525
Speaker 2: as you you're I'm sure you had an instinct, Amanda,

656
00:32:57,525 --> 00:33:00,805
Speaker 2: because you knew that Anita's, as you've said in her introduction,

657
00:33:01,085 --> 00:33:04,125
Speaker 2: just such an interesting thinker in terms of what you

658
00:33:04,205 --> 00:33:06,645
Speaker 2: talk about. So you must have been like, this is

659
00:33:06,645 --> 00:33:08,285
Speaker 2: going to be good. But was it also just an

660
00:33:08,325 --> 00:33:09,725
Speaker 2: excuse to spend more time together.

661
00:33:10,085 --> 00:33:12,725
Speaker 5: Oh, it absolutely was. It was all of those things.

662
00:33:13,165 --> 00:33:15,805
Speaker 4: But we'd often talk about things on the walk that

663
00:33:15,925 --> 00:33:18,445
Speaker 4: I think other people might like to be part of

664
00:33:18,485 --> 00:33:21,845
Speaker 4: this conversation too, Because I'd come from things from one

665
00:33:21,885 --> 00:33:26,445
Speaker 4: perspective and Anita would come from a completely different perspective.

666
00:33:26,845 --> 00:33:29,245
Speaker 4: I thought that would be an interesting thing for people

667
00:33:29,365 --> 00:33:33,165
Speaker 4: to hear, because you know, a million people have podcasts

668
00:33:33,205 --> 00:33:37,045
Speaker 4: and have opinions and have things to say. But I

669
00:33:37,045 --> 00:33:40,445
Speaker 4: thought I haven't heard somebody like Anita.

670
00:33:40,565 --> 00:33:44,925
Speaker 2: Do you disagree very much in terms of on issues

671
00:33:44,965 --> 00:33:47,965
Speaker 2: and things that are happening in the world, because so

672
00:33:48,045 --> 00:33:49,765
Speaker 2: on Mama, MI are out loud, which I obviously do

673
00:33:49,805 --> 00:33:53,245
Speaker 2: with two of my good friends. But we do disagree,

674
00:33:53,805 --> 00:33:56,925
Speaker 2: and people often say that must be really hard. And

675
00:33:56,965 --> 00:33:58,125
Speaker 2: I don't know if this is true or not. You

676
00:33:58,445 --> 00:34:00,245
Speaker 2: probably do know an to and it's true or not.

677
00:34:00,605 --> 00:34:02,925
Speaker 2: But somebody said, if you can disagree on the details,

678
00:34:02,925 --> 00:34:06,285
Speaker 2: but if your values are shared, it's easier.

679
00:34:07,005 --> 00:34:11,245
Speaker 6: I think her values are definitely share. I don't think

680
00:34:11,285 --> 00:34:15,125
Speaker 6: that we've ever had any bigger disagreements.

681
00:34:15,125 --> 00:34:15,725
Speaker 1: We tend to.

682
00:34:16,445 --> 00:34:19,125
Speaker 6: You know. What I find is really interesting is that

683
00:34:19,165 --> 00:34:24,165
Speaker 6: Amanda has been my educator in you know, political things,

684
00:34:24,605 --> 00:34:28,845
Speaker 6: Australian history that you know that you know who's you know,

685
00:34:28,885 --> 00:34:31,005
Speaker 6: what's happened in austral.

686
00:34:30,725 --> 00:34:33,445
Speaker 5: History of Peter Andre, that kind of stuff, that kind.

687
00:34:33,245 --> 00:34:37,005
Speaker 6: Of stuff, the really important stuff that culture yeah yeah,

688
00:34:37,045 --> 00:34:40,725
Speaker 6: but yeah, pop culture, but also kind of just historical things.

689
00:34:40,845 --> 00:34:44,405
Speaker 6: And so we tend You're right, we tend to come

690
00:34:44,485 --> 00:34:47,165
Speaker 6: at things with from different angles. But but I think

691
00:34:47,285 --> 00:34:50,885
Speaker 6: under the underlying that is that similarity and values.

692
00:34:51,005 --> 00:34:54,925
Speaker 4: We did a podcast the week of the terrible Bondi stabbings,

693
00:34:55,525 --> 00:34:58,125
Speaker 4: and I was so grateful to have somebody like Anita

694
00:34:58,485 --> 00:35:01,805
Speaker 4: to give a perspective on this in that the media

695
00:35:01,925 --> 00:35:05,245
Speaker 4: was filled with stories about we're not doing enough for

696
00:35:05,405 --> 00:35:08,125
Speaker 4: the victims, and it's so true, but you came at

697
00:35:08,165 --> 00:35:10,925
Speaker 4: it from a different perspective, which was you work every

698
00:35:11,005 --> 00:35:13,645
Speaker 4: day with the perpetrators, and we need to fix the

699
00:35:13,645 --> 00:35:16,885
Speaker 4: problem upstream. We need to invest in the perpetrators. And

700
00:35:16,925 --> 00:35:19,965
Speaker 4: people didn't want to hear about They didn't want him

701
00:35:20,005 --> 00:35:22,365
Speaker 4: to be part of the conversation, they didn't want any

702
00:35:22,405 --> 00:35:25,005
Speaker 4: of that kind of discussed. And it's true that our

703
00:35:25,005 --> 00:35:28,805
Speaker 4: sympathies were downstream, but we were never going to fix

704
00:35:28,845 --> 00:35:33,005
Speaker 4: it until we looked upstream. You spoke with such sympathy

705
00:35:33,205 --> 00:35:35,965
Speaker 4: and clarity about the kind of people that are upstream

706
00:35:35,965 --> 00:35:38,525
Speaker 4: and why we need to help them.

707
00:35:37,485 --> 00:35:37,605
Speaker 5: HM.

708
00:35:38,565 --> 00:35:42,045
Speaker 6: So yeah, but I think that that again your compassion

709
00:35:42,285 --> 00:35:46,405
Speaker 6: for you know, your broad audience, like it's you know,

710
00:35:46,445 --> 00:35:48,765
Speaker 6: you were asking before about is it tough to have

711
00:35:49,165 --> 00:35:51,885
Speaker 6: you know, somebody who's in the public eye as a friend.

712
00:35:52,005 --> 00:35:53,485
Speaker 1: But you know, one of the things.

713
00:35:53,205 --> 00:35:57,125
Speaker 6: That the toughest part is that when you know, we'll

714
00:35:57,245 --> 00:36:00,925
Speaker 6: be out at an event and people stop Amanda, you know,

715
00:36:00,965 --> 00:36:03,005
Speaker 6: and we'll sometimes be in the middle of a conversation,

716
00:36:03,085 --> 00:36:08,445
Speaker 6: but you are often always so kind and willing, and

717
00:36:08,685 --> 00:36:11,285
Speaker 6: you know, so you come from a position of compassion

718
00:36:11,805 --> 00:36:15,645
Speaker 6: as well that you recognize that it is you know,

719
00:36:15,685 --> 00:36:18,965
Speaker 6: the people who listen to you deserve some of your time.

720
00:36:19,045 --> 00:36:22,405
Speaker 4: Well, it's a privilege to be called somebody's friend, that

721
00:36:22,525 --> 00:36:25,965
Speaker 4: they feel they know you and worry about you and

722
00:36:26,005 --> 00:36:28,245
Speaker 4: think about you and care about you and want to

723
00:36:28,245 --> 00:36:29,245
Speaker 4: come up and say hellow, I see.

724
00:36:29,245 --> 00:36:30,325
Speaker 5: That is a privilege.

725
00:36:30,605 --> 00:36:31,125
Speaker 1: Yeah.

726
00:36:31,165 --> 00:36:34,205
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I want to ask you both because obviously you

727
00:36:34,245 --> 00:36:38,005
Speaker 2: have started the podcast, you both have big careers. Really

728
00:36:38,525 --> 00:36:41,325
Speaker 2: I want to know how you're, just in terms of

729
00:36:41,485 --> 00:36:45,325
Speaker 2: general wisdom, how your attitude to work and ambition is

730
00:36:45,405 --> 00:36:49,285
Speaker 2: at this point in your lives, because you've made a

731
00:36:49,445 --> 00:36:53,085
Speaker 2: decision to start this new project, which requires commitment, promotion,

732
00:36:53,885 --> 00:36:54,805
Speaker 2: all of those things.

733
00:36:56,125 --> 00:36:59,445
Speaker 4: It's funny that, like I've just come back onto the

734
00:36:59,565 --> 00:37:03,005
Speaker 4: radio that were in the second week, part of me goes,

735
00:37:03,085 --> 00:37:06,725
Speaker 4: oh god, that's right, I'm sixty three this year. Part

736
00:37:06,725 --> 00:37:13,045
Speaker 4: of me thinks this schedule is hard, But I thought

737
00:37:13,445 --> 00:37:17,205
Speaker 4: that I don't know what I pictured when I was younger,

738
00:37:17,605 --> 00:37:20,085
Speaker 4: But I thought the dailiness of radio would have worn

739
00:37:20,165 --> 00:37:22,845
Speaker 4: me down by now. But it's hard with my shifting

740
00:37:22,885 --> 00:37:25,325
Speaker 4: fortunes at home in terms of my husband not being well.

741
00:37:25,965 --> 00:37:29,125
Speaker 5: Is that I need. I now know somewhere to go

742
00:37:29,165 --> 00:37:29,685
Speaker 5: every day.

743
00:37:30,125 --> 00:37:31,805
Speaker 4: I need an alarm clock to go off in the

744
00:37:31,805 --> 00:37:34,325
Speaker 4: morning and for me to go somewhere where I'm fully

745
00:37:34,365 --> 00:37:37,045
Speaker 4: engaged for a chunk of hours of the day, where

746
00:37:37,085 --> 00:37:40,245
Speaker 4: I laugh, I cry, I listen to other people's stories.

747
00:37:41,405 --> 00:37:44,765
Speaker 4: You scratch the surface and everybody has a story. I've

748
00:37:44,805 --> 00:37:47,365
Speaker 4: spoken about this about the word sounder, which means the

749
00:37:47,365 --> 00:37:52,485
Speaker 4: gradual realization that everybody is going through something, something good,

750
00:37:52,565 --> 00:37:54,765
Speaker 4: something sad, and I'm aware of that. With a radio audience,

751
00:37:54,765 --> 00:37:56,605
Speaker 4: they're having their best and their worst days and you're

752
00:37:56,605 --> 00:37:58,005
Speaker 4: not even aware of it, but you're on the ride

753
00:37:58,045 --> 00:38:00,845
Speaker 4: with them. And so I find being there is a

754
00:38:00,885 --> 00:38:02,925
Speaker 4: great equalizer for me. If I think if I was

755
00:38:02,965 --> 00:38:05,765
Speaker 4: just sitting at home, I would wallow. So by the

756
00:38:05,805 --> 00:38:08,605
Speaker 4: time in my life I thought I'd be wrapping this up,

757
00:38:08,845 --> 00:38:10,205
Speaker 4: I actually realize how much I.

758
00:38:10,205 --> 00:38:11,685
Speaker 5: Need it at the moment.

759
00:38:12,165 --> 00:38:16,165
Speaker 2: That's really interesting because a large part of, you know,

760
00:38:16,485 --> 00:38:19,245
Speaker 2: our shifting perspectives is dealing with things that you didn't

761
00:38:19,245 --> 00:38:21,765
Speaker 2: think were going to happen. So, I mean, I'm sure

762
00:38:21,765 --> 00:38:23,605
Speaker 2: that when you were working in breakfast radio every day

763
00:38:23,605 --> 00:38:26,125
Speaker 2: when the boys were small, you have two sons, that

764
00:38:26,285 --> 00:38:28,765
Speaker 2: was a different kind of challenge and you probably thought, well,

765
00:38:28,765 --> 00:38:30,925
Speaker 2: when they're older, it's all going to be easier and whatever.

766
00:38:30,965 --> 00:38:33,365
Speaker 2: And then life throws you a curveball in the form

767
00:38:33,365 --> 00:38:38,005
Speaker 2: of a health, yeah crisis, and work takes a different form. Again.

768
00:38:38,285 --> 00:38:41,245
Speaker 4: Interesting, it kind of saves me, I think. But An

769
00:38:41,245 --> 00:38:43,245
Speaker 4: here and I often talk about this about and we've

770
00:38:43,245 --> 00:38:45,365
Speaker 4: got friends who are at the point of wondering what

771
00:38:45,405 --> 00:38:47,445
Speaker 4: retirement looks like and how we.

772
00:38:47,365 --> 00:38:48,085
Speaker 5: Feel about that.

773
00:38:48,685 --> 00:38:52,725
Speaker 4: And it's that old trope of and I don't agree

774
00:38:52,725 --> 00:38:55,045
Speaker 4: with it, of you put too much stock in your job.

775
00:38:55,125 --> 00:38:57,525
Speaker 4: That's not who people are. But I think there's a

776
00:38:57,565 --> 00:38:59,525
Speaker 4: lot of pride in the jobs that we do, and

777
00:38:59,565 --> 00:39:03,205
Speaker 4: it's okay to be defined by that to a certain extent.

778
00:39:03,805 --> 00:39:06,085
Speaker 4: You know, you don't have to go and pash a

779
00:39:06,165 --> 00:39:10,685
Speaker 4: dolphin every day and work one day a year to

780
00:39:10,765 --> 00:39:14,085
Speaker 4: be a true person. That's not where you necessarily find yourself.

781
00:39:14,885 --> 00:39:16,925
Speaker 4: And I know a lot of people say, oh, they've retired,

782
00:39:16,965 --> 00:39:18,645
Speaker 4: and few why don't I do it years ago? Because

783
00:39:18,645 --> 00:39:21,325
Speaker 4: you don't know yourself. I love what I get from

784
00:39:21,365 --> 00:39:21,925
Speaker 4: the work I do.

785
00:39:23,045 --> 00:39:28,645
Speaker 6: I love the idea that at my age, I'm still contributing,

786
00:39:28,925 --> 00:39:31,445
Speaker 6: and and in fact I have I think I have

787
00:39:31,525 --> 00:39:36,205
Speaker 6: a lot to contribute. And it's I don't feel as

788
00:39:36,245 --> 00:39:38,205
Speaker 6: though I'm done, and I don't know what done would

789
00:39:38,205 --> 00:39:41,005
Speaker 6: look like. But when I think about all the people

790
00:39:41,085 --> 00:39:43,525
Speaker 6: that you know, we've talked, you know to some of

791
00:39:43,605 --> 00:39:47,845
Speaker 6: who have gone to you know, you know, that retirement place,

792
00:39:47,925 --> 00:39:50,325
Speaker 6: and that they're you know, and they're enjoying life, and

793
00:39:50,565 --> 00:39:54,205
Speaker 6: and that's awesome. I'm happy that they are doing that

794
00:39:54,645 --> 00:39:57,285
Speaker 6: and that they're finding that that part of their lives.

795
00:39:57,645 --> 00:40:00,565
Speaker 6: I just can't see myself not doing what I'm doing

796
00:40:00,645 --> 00:40:06,005
Speaker 6: right now. I can see, you know, somewhere in the distance,

797
00:40:06,365 --> 00:40:10,725
Speaker 6: that there will be something else, but I'm not quite

798
00:40:10,765 --> 00:40:11,325
Speaker 6: there yet.

799
00:40:12,125 --> 00:40:14,805
Speaker 2: It's interesting because on that changing perspectives things. Do you

800
00:40:14,845 --> 00:40:16,685
Speaker 2: think that when you were younger, you thought, you know,

801
00:40:16,725 --> 00:40:18,925
Speaker 2: how you were saying, Amanda, I thought breakfast radio would

802
00:40:18,925 --> 00:40:21,165
Speaker 2: have wore me down, did you. When you're twenty and

803
00:40:21,205 --> 00:40:24,485
Speaker 2: you think about forty, you're like, oh, you know, I'll

804
00:40:24,485 --> 00:40:26,285
Speaker 2: definitely be wanting to put my feet up or whatever,

805
00:40:26,325 --> 00:40:28,645
Speaker 2: and or it'll look like this and it'll feel like that.

806
00:40:28,765 --> 00:40:31,365
Speaker 2: And then you get there and you're like spring chicken,

807
00:40:31,445 --> 00:40:34,365
Speaker 2: and then and like you're you're saying, I'm not done.

808
00:40:34,485 --> 00:40:38,125
Speaker 2: Is that's really resonates because that's what I feel. I'm

809
00:40:38,165 --> 00:40:42,165
Speaker 2: fifty three, so but I'm like, I don't feel and

810
00:40:42,405 --> 00:40:44,845
Speaker 2: I still feel like I've got so much to learn

811
00:40:44,925 --> 00:40:47,165
Speaker 2: and give and do. I'm getting started, but it feels

812
00:40:47,165 --> 00:40:51,645
Speaker 2: sometimes like the wider world is like slow down, calm down,

813
00:40:51,765 --> 00:40:52,245
Speaker 2: back off.

814
00:40:52,805 --> 00:40:54,565
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I get a lot of that, why are

815
00:40:54,565 --> 00:40:57,405
Speaker 4: you still doing this? I get quite blatantly people saying,

816
00:40:57,445 --> 00:40:59,085
Speaker 4: oh my god, don't you want to give it up?

817
00:40:59,365 --> 00:41:02,045
Speaker 4: Because to other people, that early alarm clock, that daily

818
00:41:02,125 --> 00:41:03,765
Speaker 4: thing might seem like a chore.

819
00:41:04,285 --> 00:41:05,605
Speaker 5: It doesn't feel like that to me.

820
00:41:05,685 --> 00:41:09,605
Speaker 4: It's a gift that I get to share my perspective

821
00:41:09,645 --> 00:41:11,805
Speaker 4: on whatever I feel like every day.

822
00:41:12,685 --> 00:41:14,845
Speaker 5: So I don't see it that way.

823
00:41:15,605 --> 00:41:18,525
Speaker 4: When I was younger, I pictured being sixty like being

824
00:41:18,565 --> 00:41:21,405
Speaker 4: like that painting of Whistler's mother just you know, in

825
00:41:21,445 --> 00:41:24,565
Speaker 4: a rocking chair or wearing black. It's all over because

826
00:41:24,685 --> 00:41:26,885
Speaker 4: I didn't have role models who were working women, let

827
00:41:26,925 --> 00:41:29,845
Speaker 4: alone women who work this long. So all of this

828
00:41:29,925 --> 00:41:32,565
Speaker 4: is new, I think for all of us. But I

829
00:41:32,565 --> 00:41:35,125
Speaker 4: can see why in the media, I'm probably the last

830
00:41:35,165 --> 00:41:39,485
Speaker 4: of a certain dinosaur, and I have no interest in reinventing.

831
00:41:40,165 --> 00:41:44,565
Speaker 4: I don't give a rats about starting a new project

832
00:41:44,805 --> 00:41:47,285
Speaker 4: integrated into a blah blah and a blah blah. I'm

833
00:41:47,285 --> 00:41:49,645
Speaker 4: happy to ride this wave that I'm on and then

834
00:41:49,685 --> 00:41:52,485
Speaker 4: when it's time, hopefully I can do a delicate dismount.

835
00:41:52,525 --> 00:41:54,685
Speaker 4: You can never you never assume that, either in the

836
00:41:54,685 --> 00:41:56,605
Speaker 4: media or in life. We're talking about that in terms

837
00:41:56,605 --> 00:41:59,765
Speaker 4: of your home life, but your professional life too. You

838
00:41:59,845 --> 00:42:02,205
Speaker 4: assume that there's a delicate dismount when you hit the shore.

839
00:42:02,805 --> 00:42:04,725
Speaker 4: But maybe you've put in a wave and you've got

840
00:42:04,765 --> 00:42:07,005
Speaker 4: sand through a gust and you just don't know what's there.

841
00:42:07,565 --> 00:42:09,685
Speaker 2: But also you're really really good at what you do

842
00:42:09,765 --> 00:42:12,765
Speaker 2: because you've been doing it. It's like there's a bit

843
00:42:12,765 --> 00:42:15,485
Speaker 2: of a dismissal of experience that I feel as a

844
00:42:15,965 --> 00:42:20,045
Speaker 2: and maybe because the way we see women, particularly women

845
00:42:20,085 --> 00:42:22,085
Speaker 2: in the public eye, but not only certainly a lot

846
00:42:22,125 --> 00:42:25,085
Speaker 2: in other fields too, are like, oh, do you really

847
00:42:25,125 --> 00:42:27,605
Speaker 2: still have something to offer? It's like, I know what

848
00:42:27,645 --> 00:42:28,205
Speaker 2: I'm doing.

849
00:42:28,845 --> 00:42:31,445
Speaker 6: There's the word that's kind of rolling around my head

850
00:42:31,485 --> 00:42:34,685
Speaker 6: right now, and it feels uncomfortable in some ways. Is

851
00:42:34,725 --> 00:42:37,645
Speaker 6: like being a role model for being older and successful

852
00:42:37,765 --> 00:42:42,725
Speaker 6: and still you know, being able to contribute. And it's

853
00:42:43,405 --> 00:42:46,605
Speaker 6: you know, it's interesting because the students that I teach

854
00:42:47,325 --> 00:42:51,165
Speaker 6: now are often in their early twenties, early mid twenties,

855
00:42:51,725 --> 00:42:55,805
Speaker 6: and they, you know, I'm the age of some of

856
00:42:55,845 --> 00:42:59,885
Speaker 6: their parents and even some of their could it be

857
00:42:59,925 --> 00:43:02,925
Speaker 6: possible their grandparents, and you know, you kind of think

858
00:43:03,765 --> 00:43:07,485
Speaker 6: they're probably they have a picture in their head of

859
00:43:07,845 --> 00:43:12,285
Speaker 6: what an old person, what they are, what they can do.

860
00:43:13,085 --> 00:43:16,805
Speaker 6: And I don't mind that the students see me cycling

861
00:43:16,885 --> 00:43:20,125
Speaker 6: to UNI or you know, to the clinic and you know,

862
00:43:20,205 --> 00:43:24,005
Speaker 6: coming in and teaching, and I like that maybe there

863
00:43:24,125 --> 00:43:26,365
Speaker 6: is an aspect where we can kind of break some

864
00:43:27,205 --> 00:43:30,685
Speaker 6: ideas about you know, what an older woman can be.

865
00:43:30,885 --> 00:43:32,685
Speaker 4: And there was I think it was the West Australian

866
00:43:32,725 --> 00:43:36,805
Speaker 4: Premier at one point said we've cracked down on racism, sexism.

867
00:43:36,845 --> 00:43:39,125
Speaker 4: He said agism is the last big one, and he

868
00:43:39,245 --> 00:43:41,525
Speaker 4: was just suggesting that let's look at the potency of

869
00:43:41,605 --> 00:43:46,085
Speaker 4: language around it, not just that dismissive yeah boomer stuff,

870
00:43:46,485 --> 00:43:50,325
Speaker 4: but also how people in the older generation think younger

871
00:43:50,365 --> 00:43:53,645
Speaker 4: people are. But it seems that people trying to re

872
00:43:53,805 --> 00:43:57,125
Speaker 4: enter the workforce and be validated is really hard as

873
00:43:57,125 --> 00:44:01,045
Speaker 4: you get older. Maybe is that evolutionary that at some

874
00:44:01,165 --> 00:44:05,325
Speaker 4: point you'd need you should be moving away for others?

875
00:44:05,845 --> 00:44:07,725
Speaker 4: Is there something maybe bigger in there?

876
00:44:07,805 --> 00:44:11,565
Speaker 2: Yeah, and maybe there's a panic that our generations never

877
00:44:11,645 --> 00:44:12,125
Speaker 2: going to go.

878
00:44:12,725 --> 00:44:15,325
Speaker 4: Yes, that's right, We're going to own all the big

879
00:44:15,365 --> 00:44:16,765
Speaker 4: houses and will never go.

880
00:44:16,965 --> 00:44:19,165
Speaker 2: We're going to figure out how to live forever, like

881
00:44:19,525 --> 00:44:22,925
Speaker 2: die in Silicon Valley. Yes, And we're just we're never

882
00:44:23,005 --> 00:44:23,805
Speaker 2: going anywhere.

883
00:44:23,845 --> 00:44:27,085
Speaker 4: So maybe the younger generations have a right to be

884
00:44:27,165 --> 00:44:30,325
Speaker 4: anxious that the old we're still hanging around. When are

885
00:44:30,365 --> 00:44:31,845
Speaker 4: we going to move over and let someone else have

886
00:44:31,885 --> 00:44:32,565
Speaker 4: a crack at it.

887
00:44:36,645 --> 00:44:39,365
Speaker 2: The rest of my conversation with Amanda Keller and Anita

888
00:44:39,405 --> 00:44:47,125
Speaker 2: McGregor best Friends, Colleagues, truth Tellers after the Break Did

889
00:44:47,165 --> 00:44:51,085
Speaker 2: you have strong female friendship role modeled to you by

890
00:44:51,125 --> 00:44:52,165
Speaker 2: your own mothers?

891
00:44:52,245 --> 00:44:56,805
Speaker 6: Do you think, oh, my mother's bridge club, Absolutely that

892
00:44:57,005 --> 00:45:00,645
Speaker 6: was you know, every I think it was every Tuesday

893
00:45:01,245 --> 00:45:04,445
Speaker 6: and they, yeah, there was an end and she had

894
00:45:04,645 --> 00:45:07,845
Speaker 6: my mom had a friend Eileen, who she talked to

895
00:45:08,045 --> 00:45:11,565
Speaker 6: every morning. You know, there is just that connection that

896
00:45:11,685 --> 00:45:14,125
Speaker 6: it was just checking in, how are you doing that

897
00:45:14,205 --> 00:45:16,565
Speaker 6: kind of thing. So yeah, I think it was. It

898
00:45:16,645 --> 00:45:20,005
Speaker 6: was an important part, especially since my mom, you know,

899
00:45:20,765 --> 00:45:24,045
Speaker 6: after she got married, didn't work after a while.

900
00:45:24,085 --> 00:45:25,605
Speaker 2: So connection my.

901
00:45:25,645 --> 00:45:27,645
Speaker 5: Mom had that with her sisters. She was very close

902
00:45:27,685 --> 00:45:28,365
Speaker 5: to her sisters.

903
00:45:28,565 --> 00:45:32,165
Speaker 4: They all lived in different places around Australia, spoke constantly,

904
00:45:33,085 --> 00:45:37,165
Speaker 4: a very very tight unit, a very big clan of

905
00:45:37,445 --> 00:45:39,805
Speaker 4: a gaggle of them, and I felt we were the

906
00:45:39,845 --> 00:45:42,645
Speaker 4: only offshoot in Sydney. And there's just my brother and

907
00:45:42,725 --> 00:45:45,165
Speaker 4: I and very close to all our cousins for a

908
00:45:45,245 --> 00:45:48,285
Speaker 4: number of years, and since Mom passed away twenty years ago.

909
00:45:48,325 --> 00:45:49,685
Speaker 4: Now it's a shock for me to say that to

910
00:45:49,685 --> 00:45:52,005
Speaker 4: you them my lost mom twenty years ago. But the

911
00:45:52,045 --> 00:45:55,165
Speaker 4: women are the keepers of those sort of connections and

912
00:45:55,205 --> 00:45:58,205
Speaker 4: I've kind of lost track with cousins and things like

913
00:45:58,245 --> 00:46:00,925
Speaker 4: that because it was Mum that held all that together.

914
00:46:01,245 --> 00:46:03,565
Speaker 2: I'd love to hear you tell me a little bit

915
00:46:03,685 --> 00:46:06,485
Speaker 2: about what life's like with your adult children.

916
00:46:06,525 --> 00:46:06,765
Speaker 5: Now.

917
00:46:06,925 --> 00:46:09,325
Speaker 2: I was listening to Double a Chattery the other day

918
00:46:09,405 --> 00:46:11,605
Speaker 2: and you were both talking about the summer hot Well,

919
00:46:11,685 --> 00:46:14,165
Speaker 2: not summer holidays for you, Anita, because you went to

920
00:46:14,205 --> 00:46:18,525
Speaker 2: Canada where it sounded so cold. Never need to go there.

921
00:46:20,085 --> 00:46:20,605
Speaker 5: In winter.

922
00:46:21,845 --> 00:46:23,885
Speaker 2: I grew up in Manchester, Englhend. That was plenty cold

923
00:46:23,925 --> 00:46:27,205
Speaker 2: enough for me and Amanda. You went away with your boys,

924
00:46:27,245 --> 00:46:30,845
Speaker 2: who are not boys anymore but men. My children are teenagers.

925
00:46:31,205 --> 00:46:36,285
Speaker 2: I'm seeing the pull away, the closed bedroom door, the

926
00:46:36,325 --> 00:46:39,005
Speaker 2: next phase of parenting. Me and Brent talk about it

927
00:46:39,005 --> 00:46:43,445
Speaker 2: all the time. Tell me the good things about the

928
00:46:43,565 --> 00:46:46,205
Speaker 2: kids being grown up. You're a grandma, I needed.

929
00:46:48,805 --> 00:46:50,605
Speaker 4: Well, I'm not yet because when you when you have

930
00:46:50,605 --> 00:46:52,805
Speaker 4: your children at one hundred and fifty eight, it does

931
00:46:52,885 --> 00:46:53,125
Speaker 4: take a.

932
00:46:53,125 --> 00:46:53,805
Speaker 5: Little bit longer.

933
00:46:54,765 --> 00:46:58,405
Speaker 4: That I dreaded the boys leaving home. But the dread

934
00:46:58,525 --> 00:47:01,685
Speaker 4: was harder than the reality. Oh that's yes, because you

935
00:47:01,765 --> 00:47:05,165
Speaker 4: live with the dread from the minute they're born, and

936
00:47:05,205 --> 00:47:07,725
Speaker 4: then when it actually happens, it's almost like you've kind

937
00:47:07,765 --> 00:47:10,645
Speaker 4: of quarterized the wound a little bit, and I found,

938
00:47:10,725 --> 00:47:11,885
Speaker 4: actually I'm surviving.

939
00:47:11,925 --> 00:47:12,685
Speaker 5: This is okay.

940
00:47:13,525 --> 00:47:17,245
Speaker 4: I remember when both boys got big, and I'd be

941
00:47:17,285 --> 00:47:18,965
Speaker 4: in a restaurant and I turn behind me think it

942
00:47:18,965 --> 00:47:21,285
Speaker 4: was the way I think, oh my god, that's liam.

943
00:47:21,645 --> 00:47:25,885
Speaker 4: So the physicality surprised me. And the way you express

944
00:47:25,925 --> 00:47:28,285
Speaker 4: your love for them is different. You don't hug them

945
00:47:28,525 --> 00:47:30,165
Speaker 4: as much, you know when they're little and you hold

946
00:47:30,205 --> 00:47:33,125
Speaker 4: their hands. And suddenly, as a mum with a teenage boy,

947
00:47:33,125 --> 00:47:33,525
Speaker 4: how do you.

948
00:47:33,485 --> 00:47:34,365
Speaker 5: Express that love?

949
00:47:34,405 --> 00:47:36,965
Speaker 2: That's harder that I want you to touch them all

950
00:47:37,005 --> 00:47:38,325
Speaker 2: the time. It's so selfish of that.

951
00:47:38,485 --> 00:47:38,725
Speaker 5: I know.

952
00:47:40,925 --> 00:47:42,965
Speaker 4: And the grace with which you have to read the

953
00:47:43,005 --> 00:47:45,605
Speaker 4: mood and not grope them around the neck.

954
00:47:45,645 --> 00:47:47,885
Speaker 5: And my daughter walks past me.

955
00:47:47,965 --> 00:47:51,965
Speaker 2: Now I just try to get a whiff of her, like, yeah, yes,

956
00:47:52,085 --> 00:47:52,525
Speaker 2: because you.

957
00:47:52,445 --> 00:47:55,205
Speaker 4: Don't want to be that needy parent. But I'm finding

958
00:47:55,245 --> 00:47:57,085
Speaker 4: now neither of my sons live at home. They've been

959
00:47:57,125 --> 00:47:59,245
Speaker 4: on various campuses and things. And because I get up

960
00:47:59,245 --> 00:48:01,125
Speaker 4: so early in the morning, them coming to live at

961
00:48:01,125 --> 00:48:03,965
Speaker 4: home again sort of, my younger son would get home

962
00:48:03,965 --> 00:48:05,085
Speaker 4: at two and I have to get up at four.

963
00:48:05,125 --> 00:48:05,925
Speaker 5: Was all getting bit hard.

964
00:48:06,485 --> 00:48:09,005
Speaker 4: But a valuable lesson I learned was with my younger

965
00:48:09,045 --> 00:48:13,685
Speaker 4: son when he went moved on campus. Every conversation I

966
00:48:13,725 --> 00:48:16,165
Speaker 4: had with him was telling him, don't forget to do this.

967
00:48:17,005 --> 00:48:18,805
Speaker 4: You don't forget to do that. You stuffed this up,

968
00:48:18,805 --> 00:48:20,445
Speaker 4: You've got a blah blah blah. There was an agenda

969
00:48:20,485 --> 00:48:23,805
Speaker 4: for every conversation. I could tell because my mum used

970
00:48:23,845 --> 00:48:25,965
Speaker 4: to do that to me and it was so hard

971
00:48:26,005 --> 00:48:29,205
Speaker 4: to get hold of him. I've chosen to have agender

972
00:48:29,245 --> 00:48:32,765
Speaker 4: free conversations with him, and now he calls me every day,

973
00:48:33,125 --> 00:48:34,085
Speaker 4: as does my oldest son.

974
00:48:34,165 --> 00:48:36,165
Speaker 5: They both we all speak every day.

975
00:48:36,405 --> 00:48:39,325
Speaker 4: But it's only when I stopped telling Jack what to

976
00:48:39,365 --> 00:48:42,085
Speaker 4: do and nagging him about have you done it?

977
00:48:42,125 --> 00:48:42,765
Speaker 5: Have you done it?

978
00:48:43,045 --> 00:48:45,885
Speaker 2: That's interesting. So it was a very deliberate choice for

979
00:48:46,085 --> 00:48:48,285
Speaker 2: your part. I'm not going to be doing have you done?

980
00:48:48,725 --> 00:48:49,485
Speaker 2: Have you thought about it?

981
00:48:49,525 --> 00:48:51,365
Speaker 4: And sometimes I got to the end of the conversation

982
00:48:51,445 --> 00:48:53,885
Speaker 4: and I almost had to physically stitch my lips closed.

983
00:48:54,445 --> 00:48:56,325
Speaker 4: And then what I might do is just a quick

984
00:48:56,365 --> 00:48:58,605
Speaker 4: follow up text, don't forget to blah blah blah. But

985
00:48:58,645 --> 00:49:01,605
Speaker 4: after we'd had a nice conversation, you did.

986
00:49:01,525 --> 00:49:03,845
Speaker 6: Such a good job, and that that was horrid was

987
00:49:04,045 --> 00:49:05,325
Speaker 6: it was very hard for me.

988
00:49:05,445 --> 00:49:08,365
Speaker 2: But that's a really good piece of advice.

989
00:49:08,485 --> 00:49:10,685
Speaker 4: I've told the psychologist all about it.

990
00:49:11,965 --> 00:49:16,485
Speaker 5: Does she get right I've got a gold start.

991
00:49:17,125 --> 00:49:17,485
Speaker 6: You did.

992
00:49:17,885 --> 00:49:21,125
Speaker 2: That's hard, it's really but I can entirely see how

993
00:49:21,165 --> 00:49:23,445
Speaker 2: that because when I think about when we think about

994
00:49:23,445 --> 00:49:27,165
Speaker 2: our own relationships with our parents perhaps and how freeing

995
00:49:27,205 --> 00:49:31,205
Speaker 2: it felt to not have that constant surveillance. Yeah, you

996
00:49:31,285 --> 00:49:34,245
Speaker 2: want if you want to be letting out the rope

997
00:49:34,285 --> 00:49:36,645
Speaker 2: and for them to come back. It can't feel like

998
00:49:36,725 --> 00:49:39,245
Speaker 2: they're constantly just going to be going. You haven't got

999
00:49:39,285 --> 00:49:39,645
Speaker 2: your hair?

1000
00:49:39,925 --> 00:49:40,045
Speaker 5: Yes?

1001
00:49:40,245 --> 00:49:41,645
Speaker 2: What when was the last time you watched?

1002
00:49:41,725 --> 00:49:43,045
Speaker 5: Had you paid that parking five?

1003
00:49:43,325 --> 00:49:47,485
Speaker 2: Exactly? Tell me, Anita, how you're finding face family life.

1004
00:49:47,765 --> 00:49:50,485
Speaker 6: My sons are both in their early thirties. One is

1005
00:49:50,565 --> 00:49:53,405
Speaker 6: in Sydney here, the older one, and the younger one

1006
00:49:53,445 --> 00:49:54,885
Speaker 6: is in Vancouver.

1007
00:49:55,205 --> 00:49:57,125
Speaker 2: Did they both come with you when you Okay?

1008
00:49:57,205 --> 00:50:00,245
Speaker 6: So they were they were fourteen fifteen. Yeah, there were

1009
00:50:00,285 --> 00:50:03,725
Speaker 6: teenagers when we came over. And my older son has

1010
00:50:04,005 --> 00:50:07,325
Speaker 6: stayed in Sydney, but my younger son moved to Barthurst

1011
00:50:07,365 --> 00:50:11,565
Speaker 6: to go and do a degree at the same Yeah.

1012
00:50:11,645 --> 00:50:13,125
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and he was.

1013
00:50:13,405 --> 00:50:17,925
Speaker 4: He became sort of an emergency paramedic who now works

1014
00:50:17,965 --> 00:50:19,485
Speaker 4: in all kinds of tricky places.

1015
00:50:19,725 --> 00:50:21,085
Speaker 5: I took rather different routs.

1016
00:50:23,165 --> 00:50:27,245
Speaker 4: Both very important life an emergency with a time call

1017
00:50:27,285 --> 00:50:30,085
Speaker 4: if anyone needs one.

1018
00:50:30,685 --> 00:50:34,165
Speaker 6: So yeah, so so so my son went, and my

1019
00:50:34,245 --> 00:50:38,205
Speaker 6: younger one moved when he was eighteen to Bathurst and

1020
00:50:38,245 --> 00:50:41,565
Speaker 6: then immediately after his degree, moved to London and was

1021
00:50:41,605 --> 00:50:45,285
Speaker 6: a paramedic there right through the pandemic, right through everything,

1022
00:50:45,445 --> 00:50:48,965
Speaker 6: and then has just recently moved to Vancouver. And so

1023
00:50:50,125 --> 00:50:55,045
Speaker 6: it's you know, he went away early, and we had

1024
00:50:55,085 --> 00:50:58,165
Speaker 6: to kind of negotiate what that looked like. And I

1025
00:50:58,245 --> 00:51:00,685
Speaker 6: was thinking about what we were, you know, talking about

1026
00:51:00,725 --> 00:51:02,525
Speaker 6: them going away and wanting.

1027
00:51:02,245 --> 00:51:04,845
Speaker 1: That whiff of them. And he gets me.

1028
00:51:04,965 --> 00:51:08,085
Speaker 6: Now when we were leaving to come back to Sydney,

1029
00:51:08,565 --> 00:51:10,365
Speaker 6: you know, we were at the area port and and

1030
00:51:10,565 --> 00:51:12,565
Speaker 6: you know, I look at him and you know, give

1031
00:51:12,605 --> 00:51:14,805
Speaker 6: the great big hug, and I'm like trying to hold

1032
00:51:14,845 --> 00:51:17,885
Speaker 6: it together. And then you know, he hugs my husband

1033
00:51:17,965 --> 00:51:19,885
Speaker 6: and then he looks at me and he goes, you

1034
00:51:19,925 --> 00:51:22,325
Speaker 6: get one more and gives me another one, and it

1035
00:51:22,725 --> 00:51:26,605
Speaker 6: just you know, it's it's everything I need. And and

1036
00:51:26,685 --> 00:51:30,645
Speaker 6: so it's it's they do come back, and they come

1037
00:51:30,685 --> 00:51:33,605
Speaker 6: back as these amazing human beings that you've raised, and

1038
00:51:33,645 --> 00:51:36,285
Speaker 6: it's it is a different relationship.

1039
00:51:36,445 --> 00:51:37,845
Speaker 1: It is a I love.

1040
00:51:38,205 --> 00:51:40,805
Speaker 6: I love my sons, and I love that they are

1041
00:51:40,925 --> 00:51:43,405
Speaker 6: very different from each other, just kind of like Liam

1042
00:51:43,445 --> 00:51:47,885
Speaker 6: and Jack are, and that they are creating these very different,

1043
00:51:47,965 --> 00:51:49,645
Speaker 6: very amazing lives for themselves.

1044
00:51:49,805 --> 00:51:51,765
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's it's pretty cool.

1045
00:51:51,765 --> 00:51:54,125
Speaker 6: And and and as you said, I'm now a grandma

1046
00:51:54,245 --> 00:51:56,365
Speaker 6: and I get to go and is the grand is that?

1047
00:51:56,645 --> 00:51:58,965
Speaker 6: Is that your Sydney son or my Sydney son? So

1048
00:51:59,085 --> 00:52:01,645
Speaker 6: I yeah, so he's he's local. So I get to

1049
00:52:01,685 --> 00:52:04,445
Speaker 6: go and and take care of him. And and you know,

1050
00:52:04,485 --> 00:52:06,285
Speaker 6: a little Logan and he's like a year and a

1051
00:52:06,325 --> 00:52:08,925
Speaker 6: half now, and he's just a bundle of joy.

1052
00:52:09,005 --> 00:52:10,605
Speaker 1: He is.

1053
00:52:11,565 --> 00:52:14,565
Speaker 6: I did not think I could lose my mind again

1054
00:52:14,685 --> 00:52:16,925
Speaker 6: like this, And I have everybody.

1055
00:52:16,405 --> 00:52:20,045
Speaker 2: Says Mia, who obviously we're exactly the same age. But

1056
00:52:20,085 --> 00:52:23,125
Speaker 2: I had my kids late in Burner Commons, and so

1057
00:52:23,165 --> 00:52:26,445
Speaker 2: she's granny now my kids are still kids, and she's

1058
00:52:26,685 --> 00:52:28,325
Speaker 2: just besotted.

1059
00:52:28,965 --> 00:52:31,125
Speaker 5: That's exactly the word I use A lot of us

1060
00:52:31,245 --> 00:52:32,165
Speaker 5: used to talk about.

1061
00:52:32,485 --> 00:52:34,405
Speaker 4: I think it's when you become a grandparent when your

1062
00:52:34,445 --> 00:52:37,085
Speaker 4: kids are older, you think, was I present enough?

1063
00:52:37,765 --> 00:52:39,485
Speaker 5: Because when you're in the midst of it.

1064
00:52:39,685 --> 00:52:41,445
Speaker 4: And you're raising a child and you're trying to keep

1065
00:52:41,445 --> 00:52:43,485
Speaker 4: them alive and stop them putting a cigarette butt in

1066
00:52:43,525 --> 00:52:45,365
Speaker 4: their mouths that they found at the beach, and all

1067
00:52:45,405 --> 00:52:46,125
Speaker 4: of that stuff.

1068
00:52:46,685 --> 00:52:51,365
Speaker 5: You don't have time to just look at them and breathe.

1069
00:52:52,165 --> 00:52:54,845
Speaker 4: And as grand and as a parent of teenage, you think,

1070
00:52:54,885 --> 00:52:56,445
Speaker 4: why didn't I make more of those years when I

1071
00:52:56,445 --> 00:52:58,725
Speaker 4: held their hands? And when I go to the South Coast,

1072
00:52:58,765 --> 00:53:01,805
Speaker 4: I think, oh, we couldn't have afforded to buy a

1073
00:53:01,805 --> 00:53:04,805
Speaker 4: holiday house then, and they had weekend football. But I thought, well,

1074
00:53:05,045 --> 00:53:07,165
Speaker 4: I wish I could. I wish I had one day

1075
00:53:07,725 --> 00:53:11,285
Speaker 4: where there were toddlers again. Their lands makest want to cry.

1076
00:53:11,525 --> 00:53:13,205
Speaker 4: But it's only when you get older and become like

1077
00:53:13,245 --> 00:53:16,565
Speaker 4: a grandparent you can actually give the time to just

1078
00:53:16,845 --> 00:53:20,965
Speaker 4: seeing and being and smelling without the anxiety of it.

1079
00:53:21,165 --> 00:53:24,965
Speaker 4: So we judge ourselves, I think, for not being present enough,

1080
00:53:25,125 --> 00:53:26,645
Speaker 4: but how could we be?

1081
00:53:28,005 --> 00:53:31,845
Speaker 1: But it's the I was going. I was building forts

1082
00:53:32,285 --> 00:53:33,845
Speaker 1: the other day with.

1083
00:53:33,565 --> 00:53:36,085
Speaker 6: With little Logan, and you know, he was giggling, I

1084
00:53:36,165 --> 00:53:38,565
Speaker 6: was giggling and I and I just stopped in the

1085
00:53:38,565 --> 00:53:41,005
Speaker 6: middle of it and just kind of recognized this is

1086
00:53:41,205 --> 00:53:44,645
Speaker 6: this is that moment where I get to just spend

1087
00:53:44,685 --> 00:53:47,765
Speaker 6: it and and I don't have to worry about, you know,

1088
00:53:48,685 --> 00:53:50,485
Speaker 6: washing his clothes or doing anything.

1089
00:53:50,765 --> 00:53:53,285
Speaker 1: I just get to go and spend some time with him.

1090
00:53:53,445 --> 00:53:56,485
Speaker 2: Recognizing those moments is one of the gifts of being

1091
00:53:56,485 --> 00:53:59,045
Speaker 2: a bit older and wiser, I think, don't you. I

1092
00:53:59,085 --> 00:54:00,845
Speaker 2: heard you say this, Amanda on your show when you're

1093
00:54:00,845 --> 00:54:02,725
Speaker 2: talking about the holiday you've just taken with your boys.

1094
00:54:03,085 --> 00:54:04,405
Speaker 2: You're getting drunk with them in a.

1095
00:54:04,325 --> 00:54:04,685
Speaker 6: Bar and.

1096
00:54:06,765 --> 00:54:08,165
Speaker 5: Dreadful thing to do.

1097
00:54:08,285 --> 00:54:11,285
Speaker 2: And he said it was like this bubble you knew,

1098
00:54:11,605 --> 00:54:14,085
Speaker 2: you knew in the moment, like this is one of

1099
00:54:14,125 --> 00:54:14,885
Speaker 2: those times.

1100
00:54:14,965 --> 00:54:19,045
Speaker 4: Yes, And I think that's really what life is, and

1101
00:54:19,085 --> 00:54:21,365
Speaker 4: that's all we're entitled to, that whole. Anita and I

1102
00:54:21,405 --> 00:54:23,685
Speaker 4: talk a lot about this, of the nature of happiness

1103
00:54:23,685 --> 00:54:27,885
Speaker 4: and putting up signs saying happiness in your house and

1104
00:54:27,925 --> 00:54:33,725
Speaker 4: all of that, and putting out manifestations. It's not the

1105
00:54:33,805 --> 00:54:36,365
Speaker 4: human condition to be happy all the time, but to

1106
00:54:36,485 --> 00:54:38,965
Speaker 4: recognize them when they come along is the gift.

1107
00:54:39,005 --> 00:54:42,125
Speaker 6: I think, and enjoy you just you can. You can

1108
00:54:42,165 --> 00:54:45,285
Speaker 6: try to grasp it, but it's so ephemeral. It's just

1109
00:54:45,405 --> 00:54:47,365
Speaker 6: it comes and it goes whenever it wants.

1110
00:54:47,445 --> 00:54:50,685
Speaker 2: So I'm sure that, look, I'm going to try and

1111
00:54:50,765 --> 00:54:53,965
Speaker 2: land the plane really neatly here regard looking at the dismountain,

1112
00:54:55,005 --> 00:54:57,005
Speaker 2: because I'm going to say that I'm sure that the

1113
00:54:57,085 --> 00:54:59,885
Speaker 2: two of you get a lot of those happiness bubble

1114
00:54:59,885 --> 00:55:04,525
Speaker 2: moments together, right Like you a very good friend, someone

1115
00:55:04,565 --> 00:55:08,165
Speaker 2: who will figuratively and literally hold your hand through all

1116
00:55:08,205 --> 00:55:11,325
Speaker 2: the shit and all the happy moments is a very

1117
00:55:11,365 --> 00:55:13,805
Speaker 2: special thing to have, right So I'm sure you too

1118
00:55:13,885 --> 00:55:17,285
Speaker 2: sometimes are in that bubble too, absolutely.

1119
00:55:17,045 --> 00:55:19,005
Speaker 6: And I think that's why we have the glimmers, you know,

1120
00:55:19,285 --> 00:55:20,325
Speaker 6: instead of the triggers.

1121
00:55:20,445 --> 00:55:22,685
Speaker 2: I need to talk to you about the glimmers because

1122
00:55:22,725 --> 00:55:24,365
Speaker 2: I love that part of your show. You end it

1123
00:55:24,405 --> 00:55:27,085
Speaker 2: with a glimmer. And I have a very good friend

1124
00:55:27,245 --> 00:55:29,525
Speaker 2: who has been going through some very difficult health stuff,

1125
00:55:29,525 --> 00:55:31,485
Speaker 2: and we don't live in the same place, and every

1126
00:55:31,605 --> 00:55:34,325
Speaker 2: day we send each other a photograph glimmer of the

1127
00:55:34,365 --> 00:55:37,805
Speaker 2: one thing in our day that made us I love

1128
00:55:38,165 --> 00:55:41,205
Speaker 2: like happy. So it might be a particularly good cup

1129
00:55:41,245 --> 00:55:44,365
Speaker 2: of tea, or it might be an amazing thing that

1130
00:55:44,405 --> 00:55:46,285
Speaker 2: happened at work, or it might be a flower.

1131
00:55:46,045 --> 00:55:47,765
Speaker 1: Or the kid I had a good hair day.

1132
00:55:48,605 --> 00:55:51,245
Speaker 2: A glimmer a day, I believe keeps.

1133
00:55:51,685 --> 00:55:54,565
Speaker 5: It's funny how hard I find it to find them.

1134
00:55:54,925 --> 00:56:01,405
Speaker 4: My natural humor goes to not sarcasm, but finding something

1135
00:56:01,965 --> 00:56:05,045
Speaker 4: like if something terrible happens, to turn it into a joke.

1136
00:56:05,805 --> 00:56:08,245
Speaker 4: But I find it hard to look for the natural

1137
00:56:08,245 --> 00:56:10,485
Speaker 4: happiness in things though, I think, as you said, an needier.

1138
00:56:10,485 --> 00:56:13,445
Speaker 4: I think I'm an optimistic person, but I sometimes have

1139
00:56:13,605 --> 00:56:18,685
Speaker 4: to turn turn an a caustic joke into something uplifting,

1140
00:56:19,125 --> 00:56:20,205
Speaker 4: which isn't my nature.

1141
00:56:20,725 --> 00:56:23,365
Speaker 2: Well that's but also the humor is a survival I

1142
00:56:23,365 --> 00:56:27,045
Speaker 2: mean if you can't laugh, and also that's something you

1143
00:56:27,045 --> 00:56:29,645
Speaker 2: can also do with someone you're really intimate with, is

1144
00:56:29,765 --> 00:56:32,085
Speaker 2: laugh about the difficult health things or the things they

1145
00:56:32,125 --> 00:56:34,805
Speaker 2: don't on your house that you couldn't joke with about.

1146
00:56:35,085 --> 00:56:35,205
Speaker 3: Oh.

1147
00:56:35,245 --> 00:56:38,765
Speaker 4: Absolutely absolutely. That is my complete survival mechanism. And I've

1148
00:56:38,805 --> 00:56:41,605
Speaker 4: talked that to my children, particularly my younger son when

1149
00:56:41,645 --> 00:56:44,365
Speaker 4: things are going skew with because he wants to do

1150
00:56:44,365 --> 00:56:46,485
Speaker 4: a bit of stand up, I said, just store it up,

1151
00:56:46,685 --> 00:56:49,165
Speaker 4: to turn it into a joke before anyone else can.

1152
00:56:49,405 --> 00:56:51,845
Speaker 4: That's kind of save yourself. Is kind of the lesson

1153
00:56:51,845 --> 00:56:56,605
Speaker 4: I've told him along the way is make you make

1154
00:56:56,645 --> 00:56:58,445
Speaker 4: the joke about yourself before anyone else can.

1155
00:56:59,765 --> 00:57:01,085
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much.

1156
00:57:01,485 --> 00:57:03,085
Speaker 1: For my pleasure sharing.

1157
00:57:03,685 --> 00:57:05,405
Speaker 2: Letting me be the third wheel in this.

1158
00:57:06,885 --> 00:57:09,205
Speaker 5: Please, I've kind of enjoyed Algogo mobile.

1159
00:57:18,965 --> 00:57:21,845
Speaker 2: Okay, so I didn't quite make myself the third wheel

1160
00:57:21,845 --> 00:57:24,045
Speaker 2: in that glorious friendship duo, but you can tell how

1161
00:57:24,125 --> 00:57:27,685
Speaker 2: hard I tried. I was really angling from an invite

1162
00:57:27,725 --> 00:57:29,925
Speaker 2: to dinner. It was a bit embarrassing for everyone, really,

1163
00:57:30,205 --> 00:57:33,005
Speaker 2: but I just loved that conversation. And if you have

1164
00:57:33,045 --> 00:57:36,365
Speaker 2: a friendship like Amanda and Anita's, send this episode to

1165
00:57:36,405 --> 00:57:38,605
Speaker 2: your best friend. Tell them that you love them and

1166
00:57:38,645 --> 00:57:41,285
Speaker 2: tell them that they're a scrag. And if you want

1167
00:57:41,285 --> 00:57:43,845
Speaker 2: to hear more from these two together, go and check

1168
00:57:43,885 --> 00:57:46,445
Speaker 2: out Double a Chattery. That's their podcast and there's a

1169
00:57:46,485 --> 00:57:49,165
Speaker 2: link to it in the show notes. And Amanda is

1170
00:57:49,165 --> 00:57:51,565
Speaker 2: hosting a new TV show on the ABC about families.

1171
00:57:51,765 --> 00:57:53,685
Speaker 2: It's called the Role of a Lifetime and you can

1172
00:57:53,685 --> 00:57:56,925
Speaker 2: have a nosey at that too. And if you're just

1173
00:57:57,005 --> 00:58:01,365
Speaker 2: discovering mid thanks to Amanda and Anita, welcome. If you

1174
00:58:01,365 --> 00:58:03,485
Speaker 2: want to hear more conversations that will lift you up

1175
00:58:03,565 --> 00:58:06,685
Speaker 2: rather than push you down, may I recommend you scroll

1176
00:58:06,765 --> 00:58:09,845
Speaker 2: back in our feed to hear Casey Chambers talking keeping

1177
00:58:09,845 --> 00:58:14,525
Speaker 2: her dickhead list Bruna Papenrea on Ambition, Gina Chick on Truth,

1178
00:58:14,805 --> 00:58:17,725
Speaker 2: and one of my all time favorites, Virginia Trioli on

1179
00:58:17,885 --> 00:58:21,365
Speaker 2: small Joys, which we all need lots of right now.

1180
00:58:21,725 --> 00:58:26,005
Speaker 2: A massive thanks to our mid team, our executive producer

1181
00:58:26,085 --> 00:58:29,525
Speaker 2: i am A Brown, our senior producer Grace Ruvre, our

1182
00:58:29,565 --> 00:58:33,725
Speaker 2: producer Charlie Blackman, and we've had audio production from Jacob Round.

1183
00:58:33,885 --> 00:58:36,845
Speaker 2: They are all such talented people who help us bring

1184
00:58:36,885 --> 00:58:39,885
Speaker 2: you your show. And if you haven't had enough of

1185
00:58:39,925 --> 00:58:43,645
Speaker 2: me yet, I can't imagine that. Follow me on Instagram,

1186
00:58:43,765 --> 00:58:45,805
Speaker 2: or sign up for my newsletter, or listen to me

1187
00:58:45,965 --> 00:58:49,205
Speaker 2: and my great mates Mia Friedman and Jesse Stevens talk

1188
00:58:49,245 --> 00:58:51,525
Speaker 2: about fifteen thousand times a week on Mom and Me

1189
00:58:51,605 --> 00:58:55,525
Speaker 2: Are Out Loud. Is that an exaggeration maybe? But links

1190
00:58:55,525 --> 00:58:57,845
Speaker 2: to all that are in our show notes and I'll

1191
00:58:57,845 --> 00:59:00,205
Speaker 2: see you back here next week. Bye,