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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia out Loud. It's all women are actually talking about.

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Speaker 2: On Wednesday, the sixth of November.

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Speaker 3: I'm Holly Waynwright, I'm Mea Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens.

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Speaker 2: And on the show today, out louders, you're going to

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Speaker 2: hear something a little bit different today, and I'm just

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Speaker 2: going to tell you exactly why, because it's been a

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Speaker 2: bit of a chaotic day at Mama Mea out Loud,

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Speaker 2: as I'm sure you can imagine, with a little something

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Speaker 2: that's going on in America. So we recorded our normal

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Speaker 2: show at our normal time today and we did a

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Speaker 2: bit of a vibe check on where everybody was about

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Speaker 2: the election. We didn't do any predictions, but we talked

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Speaker 2: about what people might be able to expect for the

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Speaker 2: rest of the day and the week, and of course

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Speaker 2: things have not entirely gone according to plan. So here's

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Speaker 2: what we've done. We have recorded a special episode just

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Speaker 2: for you, an emergency meeting that is all about where

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Speaker 2: we stand with the American Election on Wednesday afternoon evening right,

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Speaker 2: that has me mea Jesse Amelia Lester. It's feelings, its thoughts,

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Speaker 2: it's where things are standing. And if you are feeling anxious,

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Speaker 2: if you're feeling worried, if you're feeling triumphant, you want

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Speaker 2: to go and listen to that. If you would rather

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Speaker 2: eat a box of hair than hear anything else about

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Speaker 2: the American election, or you just need to avoid it,

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Speaker 2: we've got you. The rest of this show is American

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Speaker 2: Election Free and it's just a little bit shorter than

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Speaker 2: usual because we took out our original election chat and

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Speaker 2: needed it. So that is full disclosure on what you're

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Speaker 2: about to hear. So remember, if you want to hear

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Speaker 2: our thoughts and feelings about the American election, there is

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Speaker 2: a special emergency Meeting episode in your feed, and if

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Speaker 2: you want to avoid it, listen to this one. And

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Speaker 2: if you want to do both, please do.

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Speaker 4: In case you missed it, you need to get rid

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Speaker 4: of your black Spachelor in the bin.

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Speaker 1: Like, what do you mean watch black Plastic Dispatchela. If

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Speaker 1: you've got it, then in the kitchen.

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Speaker 4: Sorry, hold way, I don't know where you keep your Spachelor.

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Speaker 4: Maybe it's in your bedside table because of what you

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Speaker 4: like to.

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Speaker 2: Just a bit say spatually. You mean like the thing

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Speaker 2: you cook, like.

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Speaker 3: Your eggs?

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Speaker 1: Are you high?

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Speaker 3: I have a metal one?

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Speaker 1: This is probably because is that black? Jesse?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 3: But does that make me better than people with black one?

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Speaker 2: Sorry? You mean the black plastic spatula that we all

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Speaker 2: do our fried eggs and stuff with.

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Speaker 3: Not all, that's what I mean.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Miya. So are we clear on what its

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Speaker 1: bachelor is and where it's kept? Jesse? Are we clear

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Speaker 1: on what black is? Can I continue? Please? Continue?

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Miya, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 4: The reason you have to get rid of your black

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Speaker 4: plastics bachelor in your kitchen or your bedroom, sorry it

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Speaker 4: is is because it's probably leeching chemicals into your cooking oil.

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Speaker 4: Oh that's not ideal, which also might be in your bedroom.

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Speaker 1: I don't know whole Well, it's about, isn't it about?

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Speaker 3: It reacts with heat, so Polly's using it in the bedroom.

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Speaker 3: It's reacting with Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: It's lay now that you've shown it to me, I

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Speaker 2: have that spatula that exact spatchelor. So there was an

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Speaker 2: article in the Atlantic couple of days ago which I

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Speaker 2: screenshot and put in my family group chat saying, everyone

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Speaker 2: throw out your black bachelors immediately, and I was immediately

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Speaker 2: trolled by my children.

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Speaker 1: Jesse was still busy googling what black is.

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Speaker 4: But because I often tell them things right about carcinogens,

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Speaker 4: which are cancer causing chemicals and are found in certain products,

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Speaker 4: and sometimes there are certain foods that in high quantities.

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Speaker 2: Are linked to health anxiety or is this like legit

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Speaker 2: it's looking after other people. Yes, so my kids when

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Speaker 2: they want to troll me, they just send photos of

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Speaker 2: themselves eating salami. Yum, salami.

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Speaker 1: Stop it, don't eat salami.

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Speaker 3: I don't understand the science, right, I read this whole article.

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Speaker 3: Ye don't understand.

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Speaker 1: Don't need So what I need.

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Speaker 3: Is a headline, which is We're thrown out our black spachelors.

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Speaker 3: There is another headline, Holly, which is keep cups also

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Speaker 3: really good. We love keep cups for the environment, but

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Speaker 3: also because if you've got a hot coffee with a

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Speaker 3: black plastic lid, also leaching the chemicals.

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Speaker 1: What is it the black that's the problem.

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Speaker 2: Yes, if that is green, is it okay?

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Speaker 1: I think so?

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Speaker 4: So black silicon could be different about plastic, but I

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Speaker 4: will get that under advisement and I will come back

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Speaker 4: to you.

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Speaker 3: I just need someone to write a list of what

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Speaker 3: to throw out.

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Speaker 1: What am I supposed to use instead of my cooking utensils?

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Speaker 2: No, that's bad metal on your metal pans?

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Speaker 1: Scratch, No, so you would, I don't know. I use

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Speaker 1: a wooden spoon.

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Speaker 2: Spoon.

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Speaker 1: You can also get wooden. Like wooden, you can get

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Speaker 1: with loud.

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Speaker 3: Jump in the outludders group and just link us to

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Speaker 3: a spatialize.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to tell you what you should use.

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to tell you what you need to

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Speaker 1: stop using.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 4: It's above my pay grade telling you what cooking utensils

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Speaker 4: you should use. I'm just going to read you this

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Speaker 4: one thing right instead of me just telling you it.

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Speaker 4: Cooking with any plastic is a dubious enterprise because he

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Speaker 4: encourages potentially harmful plastic compounds to migrate out of the

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Speaker 4: polymers and potentially into the food. But as Andrew Turner,

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Speaker 4: a biochemist at the University of Limuth, recently said, black

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Speaker 4: plastic is particularly crucial to avoid. Oh shit, do you

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Speaker 4: No one else is not great? Black plastic Sushi trays.

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Speaker 1: Just don't sat.

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Speaker 2: Now, I'm just petrified of everything. I can't leave this

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Speaker 2: room in a moment.

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Speaker 3: Holly and May are gonna attempt to explain to me

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Speaker 3: why so many people, including out louders, are losing their

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Speaker 3: shit over a sexy TV show and if you haven't

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Speaker 3: seen it, me neither. So I will be the voice

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Speaker 3: of reason.

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Speaker 2: Me out loud.

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Speaker 1: This is going to be marvelous.

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Speaker 2: Jesse doesn't really want me to talk about Rivals, and

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Speaker 2: I get it because, just a little behind the scenes,

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Speaker 2: when we decide whether or not we're going to talk

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Speaker 2: about a TV show on out Loud, we always very

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Speaker 2: much like prosecute with each other whether everybody really is

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Speaker 2: watching this or whether it feels like in our world.

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Speaker 2: Because in my world it feels like everybody is watching Rivals.

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Speaker 2: I think it's the most popular recommendation I've ever given.

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Speaker 2: Mia and I were out and about last night and

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Speaker 2: people literally stopped me on the street to say Rivals.

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Speaker 3: So it's like very and my argument is always that

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Speaker 3: if you haven't watched the show, there's nothing work. Have

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Speaker 3: you ever been like a dinner party and ring that

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Speaker 3: TV show? And then they talk about it and they're like,

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Speaker 3: evenly need to and I'm just like, this is boring

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Speaker 3: for me that person.

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Speaker 2: So the way I convinced Jesse because I was like,

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Speaker 2: everyone's watching it, Jesse, and She's like, no, only Hollies

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Speaker 2: are watching it. And I was like, Okay, then let's

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Speaker 2: say it's making an important cultural statement about the world

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Speaker 2: right now. Am I allowed to talk about it then?

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Speaker 1: And you said.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I was in And then I just quietly mentioned

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Speaker 2: all the bonking anyway. Bonking is a very specific, intentional

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Speaker 2: word here for the kind of sex that's on display

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Speaker 2: on Rivals right. Rivals is a TV show on Disney

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Speaker 2: Plus based on famous Jilly Cooper novels of the nineteen eighties,

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Speaker 2: and the sex in it very specific kind of sex

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Speaker 2: in that there's a lot of it. Everybody is sleeping

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Speaker 2: with everybody within minutes. Are all her books? Just put

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Speaker 2: Jilly Cooper in context. I've heard her books described as bonkbusters. Yes,

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Speaker 2: are they all bonkbusters? They are all bonkbusters. So in

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Speaker 2: the nineteen eighties, there was Jilly Cooper, there was Jackie Collins,

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Speaker 2: there was Judith Krantz. There was a couple of others

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Speaker 2: female authors who were writing what were also often called

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Speaker 2: sex and shopping novels. They were very, very dismissed, and

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Speaker 2: for good reason. In lots of way like they are light,

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Speaker 2: there's no question about that. But with hindsight they are

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Speaker 2: also being seen as actually very smart social satire, and

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Speaker 2: Jilly Cooper is posh as right. This is her world,

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Speaker 2: the world being reflected here in Rivals, which is Tory

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Speaker 2: MP's living in their Cotswold stately homes, lords and ladies

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Speaker 2: and classes that play a lot that is Jilly Cooper's world.

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Speaker 2: But lots of people are clutching their pearls about why

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Speaker 2: everybody's so into Rivals. And I have a theory and

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Speaker 2: we'll get more to it in a minute, which is

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Speaker 2: partly because sex has become very serious right in the

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Speaker 2: way we discuss it, and for very good reason.

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Speaker 1: Yeap.

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Speaker 2: You know, in recent times women love sex, but also

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Speaker 2: sex has been used as a weapon against us. It's

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Speaker 2: been disappointing us, it's been exhausting us, and we feel

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Speaker 2: like we're allowed to say all that for the first

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Speaker 2: time and talk about it. And it's very important, but

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Speaker 2: it's not a lot of fun. And sometimes sex is

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Speaker 2: just fun, and sometimes TV is just fun, and sometimes

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Speaker 2: culture just needs to be fun and maybe in the

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Speaker 2: world that we're living in right now, for all the

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Speaker 2: reasons we were just discussing and many more. What the

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Speaker 2: success of Rivals is showing us is that that first

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Speaker 2: for escapism is really at a very high pitch. I

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Speaker 2: think nobody wants this, and the success of that shows

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Speaker 2: another side of that too. It's just sort of silly,

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Speaker 2: you know, but this is a very specific kind of silly. Mia.

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Speaker 2: Why do you think everybody's loving Rivals?

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Speaker 1: I think you're spot on.

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Speaker 4: I think it's the escapism in that you don't have

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Speaker 4: to think. There are no life lessons in Rivals. There's

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Speaker 4: no moralizing, no scolding. Because it's set in the eighties

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Speaker 4: at a television network, a sort of rural regional television network.

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Speaker 4: It was a simpler and yes, in many case worse,

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Speaker 4: but definitely simpler time. And I was reading something about it,

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Speaker 4: a review that said, to love Jilli Cooper's stories is

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Speaker 4: to be constantly aware of how amesh they are in

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Speaker 4: a particular time and place, one where racehorses were celebrities,

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Speaker 4: groping was standard, and everybody seemed to be in love

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Speaker 4: with Princess Diana. And then it also says In Jilli

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Speaker 4: Cooper's World, men conquer women's si, the sun shines perpetually

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Speaker 4: on gold Cotswold's mansions, Marie Bells in Bloom, and absolutely

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Speaker 4: everybody is down to fuck. There's like a remarkable lack

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Speaker 4: of angst. And that doesn't mean that you look at

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Speaker 4: like the groping scenes and the sexism, like my reaction

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Speaker 4: to it. I look at it, and I was around

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Speaker 4: for those times. I was young in the eighties, but

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Speaker 4: you know, I worked in restaurants and worked in workplaces

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Speaker 4: where sexual harassment happened.

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Speaker 1: And it's not that it's.

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Speaker 4: Like, oh, they were the good old days where you

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Speaker 4: could just get pinched on the bum and it was flirting.

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Speaker 4: I look at that and it makes me feel good

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Speaker 4: because I'm like, look how far we've come. But in

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Speaker 4: the actual show, apart from one scene in this, there's

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Speaker 4: not angst amongst the characters. The characters don't they angst,

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Speaker 4: but not about I don't want to say politically correct things,

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Speaker 4: because that's it just was a time when you didn't

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Speaker 4: question things, you just sort of accepted them.

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Speaker 3: It's hedonism, I think, And like I was reading this

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Speaker 3: analysis on it, and it was saying the people are happy,

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Speaker 3: which is really nice.

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Speaker 1: There were less choices.

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Speaker 4: I can't believe I'm saying this, but like, there's a

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Speaker 4: whole bit where one of the main female characters who's

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Speaker 4: sleeping with her boss and everybody knows she's sleeping with

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Speaker 4: her boss, and then she's offered another job and she

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Speaker 4: just doesn't really have any angst about sleeping with her boss,

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Speaker 4: and no one else really has any angst for her.

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Speaker 3: There are a lot of parallels in some ways between

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Speaker 3: the eighties and now, like because I was looking back,

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Speaker 3: being like, oh, it's less nihilistic, Like there's such nihilism now.

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Speaker 3: People feel this sort of depressive realism and this cynicism

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Speaker 3: that maybe we're really sick of seeing reflected back to us.

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Speaker 3: But I was reading like the eighties, when you really

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Speaker 3: think about it, nuclear war, Like people were terrified. It's

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Speaker 3: not like things were perfect.

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Speaker 2: And thatches Britain was a very difficult, dark place. Not

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Speaker 2: that you'd know that from watching Rival, No.

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Speaker 3: But despite all of that, and I think there's some

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Speaker 3: truth to it, there was optimism even though people were

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Speaker 3: scared about the nuclear war stuff. You know, what was

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Speaker 3: happening in the US and Russia, and it was, you know,

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Speaker 3: Wake of Vold, all of that kind of stuff. There

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Speaker 3: was this sense of optimism and this sense of hedonism, which.

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Speaker 4: And also naivety Jesse because two things that struck me

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Speaker 4: watching this. Firstly was the lack of surgery. It was

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Speaker 4: cast really really well because people looked different in the

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Speaker 4: eighties and the nineties and even in the early two

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Speaker 4: thousands before everyone was having botox.

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Speaker 1: Feelers, perfect teeth.

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Speaker 4: People looked differently, their bodies looked different, their faces looked different.

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Speaker 2: And they were all having sex regardless. They were all

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Speaker 2: having sex, not necessarily in real life, but in this show.

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Speaker 4: And also people look different to each other. There wasn't

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Speaker 4: this homogenized beauty standard in quite the same way. But

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Speaker 4: because no one had phones and there was no internet,

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Speaker 4: things literally were more simple because you had access to

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Speaker 4: less information and the information of the world didn't intrude

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Speaker 4: on you every minute of every day.

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Speaker 3: I was reading quotes by Jilly Cooper and she said

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Speaker 3: life is quite short of joy, and I think sex

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Speaker 3: is heaven. And she's just like she really likes sex

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Speaker 3: like a lot, and she's very worried that the young

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Speaker 3: people aren't having sex anymore. She has all these theories

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Speaker 3: as to why they're not having sex, and her number

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Speaker 3: one theory is jogging, and she says that jogging is

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Speaker 3: really bad for people's sex life because the thing about

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Speaker 3: this show is that no one need to take it

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Speaker 3: up early. It was like everyone slept in. There's no alarms,

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Speaker 3: there's no green smoothies, No, there's no gh there's no exercise,

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Speaker 3: there's no protein, there's no like.

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Speaker 2: There's also no pawn on taps. So if you horny,

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Speaker 2: then go find somebody.

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Speaker 1: There weren't vibrators really not to my knowledge, she.

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Speaker 3: Says, and she's gotten a bit of backlash for this

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Speaker 3: that Me Too took the fun out of sex, and

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Speaker 3: a few people have gone like, I think everyone can

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Speaker 3: agree that it was a really important revolution, but to

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Speaker 3: look at it and go sex can also be really fun.

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Speaker 3: And in novels and television since the Me Too movement,

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Speaker 3: sex has become it's like every sex scene has to

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Speaker 3: have the awkwardness and the body hair and the then

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Speaker 3: I scuttled out of the thing and there was seemen,

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Speaker 3: like just too much fucking detail that we've gone really

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Speaker 3: really deep and clinical on in this It's like she

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Speaker 3: was saying, you know, two people find each other and

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Speaker 3: then they hump for two and a half minutes and

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Speaker 3: they both orgasm at the same time, and it's like,

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Speaker 3: sometimes we just want our sex like that.

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Speaker 2: I also think that we always have to remember because

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Speaker 2: I think it's dangerous for us and for the enthusiasm

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Speaker 2: for this to be. And I know this isn't what

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Speaker 2: you're saying mere but to be read as like a

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Speaker 2: longing for a pre medio era. I don'noce it, right,

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Speaker 2: I really really don't. I think we also always need

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Speaker 2: to remember that like witnessing something and enjoying it isn't

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Speaker 2: endorsing it. So the fact that I love watching Rupert

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Speaker 2: Campbell Black, who's like the cat in this you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm enjoying watching him, does not mean that I think, oh,

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Speaker 2: of course he should just shove his hand up girl's skirts.

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Speaker 2: And of course I don't think that sexual assault is

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Speaker 2: very serious and of course like it's none of that.

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Speaker 2: It's just that like a mature recognition that you can

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Speaker 2: witness something and enjoy something and also have critical thought

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Speaker 2: about it that you don't necessarily need to apply to that.

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Speaker 2: Even though I'm loving rivals, I don't think even it

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Speaker 2: means that we should be lionizing Jilly Cooper. Like I

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Speaker 2: listened to Jilly Cooper on Elizabeth Day recently she did

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Speaker 2: How to Fail. It was a very unsatisfying experience because

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Speaker 2: in a modern world, you know, what we expect from

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Speaker 2: a podcast interview with an author is like lots of analysis,

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Speaker 2: lots of and Elizabeth Day kept trying to get her

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Speaker 2: to engage in that, and she just won't because that's

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Speaker 2: just not how she sees the world. For example, she

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Speaker 2: was talking about how she's always on a diet. She's

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Speaker 2: like nearly eighty, she's always on a diet, and so

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Speaker 2: Elizabeth Day was trying to like lead her into don't

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Speaker 2: you think that's because the culture has always told you

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Speaker 2: you're not good enough? And don't you think that's really sad?

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Speaker 2: And don't you think you like being so cruelty yourself

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Speaker 2: and don't think it's a terrible message. And Jilly Cooper's

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Speaker 2: just literally they're going, darling, I just don't want to

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Speaker 2: be fat. Like that's her world and her bubble, and

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Speaker 2: it doesn't mean that we should all applaud that and

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Speaker 2: be like, yes, we should all be like Jilly Cooper.

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Speaker 2: It's just like things can just be Yeah.

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Speaker 3: You know, I've been reading about how it's like this

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Speaker 3: really subtle form of satire without the commentary, because I

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Speaker 3: think we're used to being knocked over the head with messages.

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Speaker 3: So even in kids' books, you can't pick up a

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Speaker 3: kid's book without being like, and this is a message

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Speaker 3: about blah, which I think for some people is very American.

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Speaker 3: In fact, Baby Reindeer had a similar A lot of

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Speaker 3: people said a similar thing that because it was an

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Speaker 3: American it could deal with complexity and nuance in a

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Speaker 3: way where someone didn't get up and go and this

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Speaker 3: is what to take from this show. Yeah, sometimes it's

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Speaker 3: better to not have that.

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Speaker 2: Interestingly, though, and this will be interesting to see. I've

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Speaker 2: seen a lot of commentary that Rivals needs to do

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Speaker 2: well in America to get a second season green lit,

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Speaker 2: and it might not do well in America, yeah, because

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Speaker 2: it's a very high production value. The soundtrack is unbelievable.

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Speaker 2: But that kind of stuff costs a fortune and great cast,

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Speaker 2: very high production values, and whether or not it does

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Speaker 2: well in America, like this is why I'm desperate for

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Speaker 2: you to watch it, Jesse, because I need to know

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Speaker 2: what the hell you would make of it in the

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Speaker 2: same way I'm dying to know what an American would

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Speaker 2: make of it, like it's so different to everything else

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Speaker 2: that's on the TV right now. Well, thanks for the feedback.

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Speaker 4: Great, I'd love your feedback.

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Speaker 1: What a gift.

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Speaker 4: Look, speaking of TV shows, I want to introduce a

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Speaker 4: new little mini segment called feedback is a gift, And

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Speaker 4: I have some feedback for the people in charge of

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Speaker 4: streaming networks, and it is this thank you to the

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Speaker 4: streamers who are still letting us binge.

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Speaker 1: On our shows.

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Speaker 4: What I'm really struggling with are my shows on streaming

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Speaker 4: that are dropping once a week because I can't remember

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Speaker 4: where they are or when they drop. So I've started

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Speaker 4: to watch all these shows. So they'll start by dropping

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Speaker 4: two or three. I'll watch those, I'll be like, this

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Speaker 4: is great, I want to watch more, and then it'll

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Speaker 4: be like next episodes in a week. I'm like, well,

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Speaker 4: that's great, as if I'm going to remember, so.

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Speaker 3: You forget, you forget about.

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Speaker 1: So I've half started six new shows.

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Speaker 4: I can't find any of them. I've forgotten what half

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Speaker 4: of them are. I can't retain the plot from week

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Speaker 4: to week. I'm not happy. So that's my feedback.

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Speaker 3: I think you need to. I just want to be

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Speaker 3: in probably bring that to your psychologist, but I completely disagree.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we dook.

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Speaker 3: I really like it. I like looking forward to something.

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Speaker 3: I actually think it like there's like more momentum, and

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Speaker 3: all week I'm just like, can't wait, can't wait.

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Speaker 1: Home, not for a half hour show though, maybe for

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Speaker 1: an hour shot. Okay, okay, but I'm watching.

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Speaker 4: Disclaimer at the moment. Couldn't tell you when it drops.

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Speaker 4: I don't know how often it drops or how many

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Speaker 4: episodes today night. Yeah, but then I think they didn't

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Speaker 4: drop one for two weeks, like it's I'm just all

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Speaker 4: over the shop after.

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Speaker 2: The break, the woman making very big money off young

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Speaker 2: men at schoolies Shocking or the most Consensual Environment for

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Speaker 2: Sex out loud As.

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Speaker 4: If you want to listen to us every day of

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Speaker 4: the week, you can get access to exclusive segments on

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Speaker 4: Tuesdays and Thursdays by becoming a Mum and mea subscriber.

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Speaker 4: Follow the link in the show notes to subscribe and

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Speaker 4: support us, and a big thank you to all our

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00:18:47,087 --> 00:18:48,127
Speaker 4: current subscribers.

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Speaker 5: They have to fill in two consent forms. They have

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Speaker 5: to bring ID so they've already ben have to think

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Speaker 5: about it a lot, and they're fully aware like this,

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Speaker 5: it's not a shock on the day I'm going to

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Speaker 5: feel there. They're aware they need to film there, and

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Speaker 5: it's in a controlled environment. You can't be drinking beforehand,

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00:19:07,287 --> 00:19:09,487
Speaker 5: you can't have done drugs. So when you think of

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00:19:09,527 --> 00:19:13,087
Speaker 5: a safe environment, it's the security on the door as well.

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Speaker 5: So it's sort of what about it is unsafe.

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Speaker 3: Australia is in the grips of a moral panic about

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Speaker 3: a woman named Bonnie Blue. Only Fans, barely legal boys

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Speaker 3: and schoolies. If this sounds vaguely familiar, that would be

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Speaker 3: because we had this discussion this time last year when

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Speaker 3: three Only Fans creators spoke on National TV about targeting

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Speaker 3: young men on schoolies, filming their consensual sex and then

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Speaker 3: profiting off it. This year, creator Bonnie Blue is going

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Speaker 3: to the Gold Coast alongside another high profile Only Fans

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Speaker 3: creator named Annie Knight. You interviewed Annie Night, didn't.

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Speaker 2: You, ma'am?

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Speaker 1: I did for No Filter.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, really really interesting interview Night posted on TikTok. Bonnie

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Speaker 3: Blue and I are going to be pleasuring some barely

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Speaker 3: legal eighteen year olds and we are so excited meet

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Speaker 3: us there. We can't wait. The Adult Industry Choice Awards

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Speaker 3: has posted a statement on Instagram about these two women

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Speaker 3: that reads, we do not, don't or support behavior that

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Speaker 3: exploits young individuals, particularly those in the early stages of adulthood.

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Speaker 3: And they've said eighteen to twenties filming content that involves

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Speaker 3: young men or women who may not be fully developed

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Speaker 3: or aware of potential long term impacts crosses a line

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00:20:24,407 --> 00:20:26,687
Speaker 3: that we as a community should be committed to avoiding.

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Speaker 3: This type of behavior is a violation of the values

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Speaker 3: and ethics that underpin a responsible and respectful adult industry.

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Speaker 3: They actually said that what they're doing makes a laughing

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Speaker 3: stock of the whole industry and it puts sex workers

436
00:20:39,687 --> 00:20:43,367
Speaker 3: and content creators in harm's way, And they announced that

437
00:20:43,407 --> 00:20:45,967
Speaker 3: they were stripping any individuals who do this kind of

438
00:20:46,007 --> 00:20:50,287
Speaker 3: thing of any accolades that they've given them. Harrison, what

439
00:20:50,367 --> 00:20:53,007
Speaker 3: kind of accolade? Well, if they've been given as the

440
00:20:53,047 --> 00:20:55,287
Speaker 3: Industry Choice Awards, if you've won an award their.

441
00:20:55,167 --> 00:20:55,807
Speaker 1: Life, give it back.

442
00:20:55,847 --> 00:20:56,567
Speaker 3: You've got to give it back.

443
00:20:56,607 --> 00:20:58,687
Speaker 1: So it's not like they get government grants or anything.

444
00:20:58,847 --> 00:21:01,887
Speaker 3: I don't think so. Harrison James, who is an activist

445
00:21:01,887 --> 00:21:04,567
Speaker 3: and a child sexual assault survivor wrote an article on

446
00:21:04,647 --> 00:21:07,927
Speaker 3: Muma Maya where he argued that these young men are

447
00:21:07,927 --> 00:21:11,967
Speaker 3: products of a society where mainstream pornography has conditioned them

448
00:21:11,967 --> 00:21:15,687
Speaker 3: to view all sexual experiences as a measure of status

449
00:21:15,727 --> 00:21:19,247
Speaker 3: and validation and a ticket to manhood, and he sees

450
00:21:19,327 --> 00:21:23,647
Speaker 3: this as exploiting teenage boys under the guise of content creation.

451
00:21:24,447 --> 00:21:27,527
Speaker 3: He said that in his own experience, these harmful narratives

452
00:21:27,967 --> 00:21:30,927
Speaker 3: made him believe that what he endured was part of

453
00:21:30,967 --> 00:21:35,007
Speaker 3: a sexual fantasy rather than a violation. So people might

454
00:21:35,047 --> 00:21:37,247
Speaker 3: suggest that if you're a young boy and you have

455
00:21:37,367 --> 00:21:41,247
Speaker 3: any sexual experience, whether coercion or exploitation, was involved with

456
00:21:41,327 --> 00:21:44,407
Speaker 3: an older woman, then that's a fantasy that's not illegal,

457
00:21:44,527 --> 00:21:47,807
Speaker 3: and hers for the boy, for the boys. So even

458
00:21:47,807 --> 00:21:50,007
Speaker 3: a lot of comments and he's said this about what

459
00:21:50,087 --> 00:21:52,247
Speaker 3: he's posted on Instagram, a lot of comments are like,

460
00:21:52,567 --> 00:21:55,567
Speaker 3: stop blocking them. This is every man's fantasy. And he's

461
00:21:55,607 --> 00:21:58,327
Speaker 3: saying that is really harmful if you're a young boy

462
00:21:58,607 --> 00:22:01,167
Speaker 3: who has been a victim of child sexual abuse, because

463
00:22:01,167 --> 00:22:03,407
Speaker 3: it really confuses your understanding of what happened.

464
00:22:03,527 --> 00:22:07,927
Speaker 4: Can we draw a slight line between child and eighteen

465
00:22:08,007 --> 00:22:11,127
Speaker 4: to twenty year olds get what he's saying, and I

466
00:22:11,127 --> 00:22:13,647
Speaker 4: think that's a really interesting point of view, and I'm

467
00:22:13,687 --> 00:22:15,807
Speaker 4: going to definitely read that and think about it.

468
00:22:16,687 --> 00:22:18,487
Speaker 1: But I just think that.

469
00:22:18,727 --> 00:22:23,807
Speaker 4: Comparing eighteen year olds to children, or women sleeping with

470
00:22:23,887 --> 00:22:27,927
Speaker 4: eighteen year olds to women or men because it's children,

471
00:22:27,967 --> 00:22:30,367
Speaker 4: I just think that's a different conversation, isn't it.

472
00:22:30,287 --> 00:22:32,487
Speaker 2: Because isn't one of the main things in this is

473
00:22:32,527 --> 00:22:35,207
Speaker 2: they have to show id that they are eighteen.

474
00:22:35,327 --> 00:22:37,167
Speaker 1: They do, so they're not children.

475
00:22:37,687 --> 00:22:40,727
Speaker 2: But in James's defense, and also the age of consent

476
00:22:40,887 --> 00:22:44,047
Speaker 2: is sixteen, Yes, and she's only doing this for eighteen

477
00:22:44,087 --> 00:22:44,967
Speaker 2: and over correct.

478
00:22:45,207 --> 00:22:48,527
Speaker 3: Yes, but they're the ones using the term barely legal,

479
00:22:48,807 --> 00:22:51,247
Speaker 3: so they're the ones who are throwing barely legal. They

480
00:22:51,287 --> 00:22:55,607
Speaker 3: have talked about freshies are real specific.

481
00:22:55,127 --> 00:22:56,207
Speaker 1: So it's a marketing term.

482
00:22:56,407 --> 00:22:59,807
Speaker 3: It's a marketing term, and it's also about taking their virginity.

483
00:22:59,887 --> 00:23:02,087
Speaker 3: Both women have talked about their desire to take the

484
00:23:02,167 --> 00:23:06,967
Speaker 3: virginity of these young men and whether or not it's legal.

485
00:23:07,007 --> 00:23:11,887
Speaker 3: I think what those particular tis speak to is a

486
00:23:12,007 --> 00:23:15,687
Speaker 3: vulnerability and a difference in the power of someone who

487
00:23:15,767 --> 00:23:18,767
Speaker 3: has had no sexual experience at all and someone who

488
00:23:19,007 --> 00:23:21,887
Speaker 3: is saying I slept with thirty three people yesterday.

489
00:23:22,047 --> 00:23:24,967
Speaker 2: Okay, I listened to a little grab of podcast Into

490
00:23:24,967 --> 00:23:27,807
Speaker 2: with Bonnie Blue where she says that so this is

491
00:23:27,847 --> 00:23:31,527
Speaker 2: obviously part of her whole thing has made her very rich.

492
00:23:31,607 --> 00:23:33,247
Speaker 2: This is how a year rolls out. She goes to

493
00:23:33,287 --> 00:23:36,247
Speaker 2: a spring breaking Cancoon, then she comes to Schoolies in Australia,

494
00:23:36,407 --> 00:23:38,287
Speaker 2: then she goes and does fresh As Week in England.

495
00:23:38,807 --> 00:23:42,767
Speaker 2: She says, the cues can be eight hours long. So

496
00:23:42,847 --> 00:23:45,407
Speaker 2: the boys the met yep. So the men who were

497
00:23:45,487 --> 00:23:47,647
Speaker 2: queuing up to have sex with Bonnie Blue, and I

498
00:23:47,687 --> 00:23:52,847
Speaker 2: assume the others are signing release forms, waiting in line

499
00:23:52,887 --> 00:23:57,367
Speaker 2: for eight hours, showing their ID passing a sobriety test.

500
00:23:57,847 --> 00:24:00,847
Speaker 2: How are they being exploited? There is no other sex

501
00:24:00,927 --> 00:24:04,687
Speaker 2: that they would have at Schoolies Week that requires that

502
00:24:04,807 --> 00:24:10,127
Speaker 2: level of scrutiny and consent. They're not drunk in a bar.

503
00:24:10,687 --> 00:24:13,807
Speaker 2: They're not older women preying on boys in inverted comments

504
00:24:13,807 --> 00:24:18,167
Speaker 2: who are drunken bars. This is like a very intentional experience.

505
00:24:17,607 --> 00:24:17,887
Speaker 1: I think.

506
00:24:17,927 --> 00:24:20,767
Speaker 3: So if this is presented, and let's be clear, this

507
00:24:20,847 --> 00:24:22,447
Speaker 3: is rage baiting, right.

508
00:24:24,127 --> 00:24:26,967
Speaker 2: Marketing, because she makes She said that in September she

509
00:24:27,047 --> 00:24:30,047
Speaker 2: made five hundred thousand pounds, which is nearly a million dollars,

510
00:24:30,327 --> 00:24:32,767
Speaker 2: so she is getting incredibly rich. If you look at

511
00:24:32,767 --> 00:24:36,287
Speaker 2: her Instagram, she appears like any other influencer you follow.

512
00:24:36,327 --> 00:24:38,767
Speaker 2: It's all just skink care and kittens and shopping, right,

513
00:24:39,007 --> 00:24:41,527
Speaker 2: and she's like, I'm rich, I like designer bags. It's

514
00:24:41,647 --> 00:24:44,367
Speaker 2: very aspirational. There isn't any sex on there. Then if

515
00:24:44,407 --> 00:24:47,367
Speaker 2: you go to her adult platforms, the way she describes

516
00:24:47,367 --> 00:24:51,167
Speaker 2: herself is I'm every wife's worst nightmare. I'm excellent, banter,

517
00:24:51,447 --> 00:24:53,607
Speaker 2: perky tits, juicy ass, blah blah blah.

518
00:24:53,687 --> 00:24:53,767
Speaker 6: Right.

519
00:24:54,327 --> 00:24:57,007
Speaker 2: The thing is, though, is that again I don't have

520
00:24:57,087 --> 00:24:59,407
Speaker 2: to approve of that or think that it's good for

521
00:24:59,487 --> 00:25:03,807
Speaker 2: the world, but these are adult people consenting to a

522
00:25:03,847 --> 00:25:05,167
Speaker 2: sexual experience.

523
00:25:05,487 --> 00:25:08,247
Speaker 3: I think that the reason why there's such a moral

524
00:25:08,287 --> 00:25:10,607
Speaker 3: panic is because it's not illegal, right, Like we can

525
00:25:10,647 --> 00:25:14,247
Speaker 3: all agree what they're doing. No, no, no, but I think

526
00:25:14,247 --> 00:25:16,407
Speaker 3: it would be clearer. I mean, the term of barely

527
00:25:16,487 --> 00:25:19,887
Speaker 3: legal is like they're kind of purposely muddying well, the ethics,

528
00:25:19,967 --> 00:25:21,927
Speaker 3: And I think we're always going to have arguments about

529
00:25:22,007 --> 00:25:25,007
Speaker 3: the ethics of sex and consent, like more so than

530
00:25:25,007 --> 00:25:28,967
Speaker 3: ever in the last few years, and this is subverting

531
00:25:29,007 --> 00:25:31,007
Speaker 3: a lot of what we understand about sex because it's

532
00:25:31,007 --> 00:25:33,847
Speaker 3: the female who is older. She's twenty five and the

533
00:25:33,847 --> 00:25:36,767
Speaker 3: boys are eighteen. So even though the age gap isn't enormous,

534
00:25:36,847 --> 00:25:40,167
Speaker 3: someone's making money out of it and someone isn't. But

535
00:25:40,847 --> 00:25:43,807
Speaker 3: that's also the porn industry, right, except it's the other

536
00:25:43,847 --> 00:25:46,927
Speaker 3: way around. So the porn industry, we know people going

537
00:25:47,287 --> 00:25:51,367
Speaker 3: praying on barely legal women to get them into the

538
00:25:51,407 --> 00:25:55,487
Speaker 3: adult industry, and then it's often the men who are

539
00:25:55,767 --> 00:25:57,727
Speaker 3: making all the money off it, which is why only

540
00:25:57,767 --> 00:26:00,407
Speaker 3: fans has absolutely blown up. But we've looked at that

541
00:26:00,487 --> 00:26:03,687
Speaker 3: model and we don't feel good about it. Ethically. I

542
00:26:03,687 --> 00:26:06,567
Speaker 3: think it's that the model is now being replicated. But

543
00:26:06,687 --> 00:26:10,687
Speaker 3: with these women and what they're saying. I went deep

544
00:26:10,727 --> 00:26:14,047
Speaker 3: on both of their tiktoks and it says your sex

545
00:26:14,087 --> 00:26:17,167
Speaker 3: life will be downhill from here. This is your fantasy.

546
00:26:17,927 --> 00:26:22,327
Speaker 3: It's women presenting themselves as in service of men, and

547
00:26:22,407 --> 00:26:24,647
Speaker 3: it feels like it fits into this sort of male

548
00:26:25,007 --> 00:26:27,127
Speaker 3: in cell internet nobody.

549
00:26:27,407 --> 00:26:29,687
Speaker 2: But it's and again I want to be really clear

550
00:26:29,727 --> 00:26:32,007
Speaker 2: that I'm not. It's not like I think, Yay, this

551
00:26:32,127 --> 00:26:34,727
Speaker 2: is the best thing ever, but it's the opposite of that,

552
00:26:35,007 --> 00:26:37,607
Speaker 2: because they are saying those things to those guys while

553
00:26:37,607 --> 00:26:39,447
Speaker 2: they are taking their money.

554
00:26:39,567 --> 00:26:42,287
Speaker 3: They're taking their money, yes, but what they are presenting

555
00:26:42,327 --> 00:26:45,407
Speaker 3: themselves as. I'm not saying that every sex worker does this,

556
00:26:45,527 --> 00:26:48,407
Speaker 3: but they're presenting themselves as like men need to be

557
00:26:48,487 --> 00:26:50,847
Speaker 3: sexually serviced. And they will say that. They'll say, if

558
00:26:50,887 --> 00:26:52,807
Speaker 3: your husband cheats on you, it's because you're lazy and

559
00:26:52,847 --> 00:26:55,127
Speaker 3: you're not giving him what they want again, rage baiting,

560
00:26:55,607 --> 00:26:59,447
Speaker 3: and I am servicing your men. And like even with

561
00:26:59,487 --> 00:27:01,607
Speaker 3: the SCHOOLI thing, they're like, you know, when you finish,

562
00:27:01,687 --> 00:27:04,567
Speaker 3: finish wherever you want. Like they're playing up this female fantasy.

563
00:27:04,727 --> 00:27:07,607
Speaker 4: I have a question. I have two questions. Actually, firstly,

564
00:27:07,607 --> 00:27:08,687
Speaker 4: does money change hands?

565
00:27:09,807 --> 00:27:12,487
Speaker 2: Well, the boys are oh no, no, they don't get paid, but.

566
00:27:12,127 --> 00:27:14,127
Speaker 4: The girls don't get paid either, right, like get paid

567
00:27:14,167 --> 00:27:19,127
Speaker 4: for only fans exactly. So when you say it's the fantasy,

568
00:27:19,287 --> 00:27:23,087
Speaker 4: Holly's right, it's the fantasy of the people who pay

569
00:27:23,167 --> 00:27:26,167
Speaker 4: to watch it, which are men. Women aren't watching that,

570
00:27:26,687 --> 00:27:29,167
Speaker 4: so I understand what you're saying. You're saying that these

571
00:27:29,207 --> 00:27:33,287
Speaker 4: women are reinforcing the standard of porn which centers the

572
00:27:33,327 --> 00:27:38,687
Speaker 4: male experience, because that's who they're paying customers are and

573
00:27:38,727 --> 00:27:39,887
Speaker 4: that's what these.

574
00:27:39,727 --> 00:27:41,887
Speaker 3: Boys, they're replicating a fantasy.

575
00:27:42,087 --> 00:27:46,887
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, I understand that. But also people have said

576
00:27:46,887 --> 00:27:49,807
Speaker 4: to me, how would you feel because I'm going to

577
00:27:49,847 --> 00:27:51,767
Speaker 4: re replay I'm going to get Annie to tell us

578
00:27:51,767 --> 00:27:54,807
Speaker 4: a little bit about this and replay this interview in

579
00:27:54,927 --> 00:27:57,647
Speaker 4: no filter this week. But you know, I was having

580
00:27:57,647 --> 00:27:59,687
Speaker 4: a conversation with someone who said, well, how would you

581
00:27:59,727 --> 00:28:04,167
Speaker 4: feel if this was a male OnlyFans creator coming and

582
00:28:04,207 --> 00:28:04,967
Speaker 4: doing this with girls?

583
00:28:04,967 --> 00:28:07,407
Speaker 1: And I'm like, that's a different thing.

584
00:28:07,887 --> 00:28:15,247
Speaker 4: It's not because there aren't the cultural historical power imbalances.

585
00:28:15,607 --> 00:28:17,527
Speaker 4: It's a reversal. It's kind of a little bit like

586
00:28:17,567 --> 00:28:20,447
Speaker 4: talking about reverse racism. It's like it's in a completely

587
00:28:20,447 --> 00:28:25,807
Speaker 4: different context. Women having sex with younger men do.

588
00:28:26,207 --> 00:28:29,327
Speaker 3: What we're doing like with men, is we socialize them

589
00:28:29,367 --> 00:28:32,407
Speaker 3: to think that they should always want to have sex,

590
00:28:32,687 --> 00:28:36,727
Speaker 3: that it's a mark of their power and their masculinity, and.

591
00:28:36,687 --> 00:28:39,127
Speaker 1: It just see its school is, like, that's what happens

592
00:28:39,127 --> 00:28:39,927
Speaker 1: at school.

593
00:28:39,767 --> 00:28:43,167
Speaker 3: Is But I feel like that's a bit defeatist and

594
00:28:43,247 --> 00:28:44,487
Speaker 3: limiting of men.

595
00:28:44,607 --> 00:28:47,527
Speaker 2: The thing is, Jessee, right, I entirely agree with all

596
00:28:47,607 --> 00:28:50,167
Speaker 2: your culsory, but this is what I entirely agree with

597
00:28:50,207 --> 00:28:52,447
Speaker 2: your ethical feelings about it, Like do I look at

598
00:28:52,487 --> 00:28:56,927
Speaker 2: this and go like, yeah, yeah, I do, right, But honestly,

599
00:28:57,007 --> 00:28:59,647
Speaker 2: I don't get to police other people's fantasies and sex

600
00:28:59,687 --> 00:29:02,527
Speaker 2: lives when they are consenting adults. The only time that

601
00:29:02,567 --> 00:29:05,327
Speaker 2: this is deeply problematic is if consent is blurry. And

602
00:29:05,367 --> 00:29:08,127
Speaker 2: as I've said, most of the sex going on at

603
00:29:08,127 --> 00:29:11,247
Speaker 2: schoolies where people are under the influence of drugs and alcohol,

604
00:29:11,687 --> 00:29:14,207
Speaker 2: and you know, we've all seen those awful occasions when

605
00:29:14,567 --> 00:29:16,527
Speaker 2: you know people are filmed against their will and that

606
00:29:16,567 --> 00:29:19,727
Speaker 2: goes back like that stuff is deeply problematic. In my mind,

607
00:29:20,047 --> 00:29:22,807
Speaker 2: this is the least problematic of the sex that's happening

608
00:29:22,847 --> 00:29:26,407
Speaker 2: at schoolies because it's all above board, out on the table,

609
00:29:26,487 --> 00:29:28,887
Speaker 2: a very very clear exchange of service.

610
00:29:28,967 --> 00:29:31,007
Speaker 3: I think that the way whether or not I.

611
00:29:30,967 --> 00:29:34,487
Speaker 2: Think that those boys or those women boys, men should

612
00:29:34,527 --> 00:29:36,487
Speaker 2: want to do this is none of my business.

613
00:29:36,727 --> 00:29:39,767
Speaker 3: I think what's overlaid with this that I think people

614
00:29:39,807 --> 00:29:41,367
Speaker 3: are trying to say, and Harris and James is trying

615
00:29:41,367 --> 00:29:43,367
Speaker 3: to say, and I agree with him on this, is

616
00:29:43,727 --> 00:29:46,807
Speaker 3: we like to think that men cannot be sexually vulnerable,

617
00:29:46,927 --> 00:29:49,567
Speaker 3: or that men cannot be vulnerable in sexual dynamics.

618
00:29:49,647 --> 00:29:51,407
Speaker 2: I I don't agree with that, and that's not true.

619
00:29:51,647 --> 00:29:54,647
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so I think again, if it was reversed

620
00:29:54,647 --> 00:29:57,647
Speaker 3: and we go who's more sexually experienced and blah blah blah,

621
00:29:57,687 --> 00:30:00,367
Speaker 3: then I agree that it's different to an extent, But

622
00:30:00,447 --> 00:30:02,847
Speaker 3: I still think that a young man can be sexually exploited.

623
00:30:03,167 --> 00:30:05,447
Speaker 3: I also think the other reason I'm finding it icky

624
00:30:06,007 --> 00:30:08,567
Speaker 3: is that it's on the whole bad for women. I

625
00:30:08,647 --> 00:30:11,087
Speaker 3: keep thinking about the girls who are on schoolies like

626
00:30:11,767 --> 00:30:15,407
Speaker 3: Annie Knight and Bonnie Bloke, like it's school isn't for you, Yeah,

627
00:30:15,447 --> 00:30:18,647
Speaker 3: go go away, go home, Like school isn't for twenty

628
00:30:18,647 --> 00:30:21,327
Speaker 3: five year old sex workers. It's for a bunch of

629
00:30:21,967 --> 00:30:25,807
Speaker 3: young people, whether it's messy sex or whether it's when

630
00:30:25,847 --> 00:30:26,887
Speaker 3: I was eighteen.

631
00:30:26,647 --> 00:30:28,367
Speaker 1: Like TOOLI is too old for school.

632
00:30:28,527 --> 00:30:28,727
Speaker 2: Yeah.

633
00:30:28,727 --> 00:30:31,207
Speaker 3: And if the guy that I'm having, you know, a

634
00:30:31,287 --> 00:30:34,087
Speaker 3: one night stand with, was with a sex worker last night,

635
00:30:34,487 --> 00:30:37,567
Speaker 3: like in terms of the expectations that sets for me

636
00:30:38,047 --> 00:30:41,767
Speaker 3: and what sex that men might expect, you know, I

637
00:30:41,847 --> 00:30:44,207
Speaker 3: just think it's not Like again, it's not illegal. I

638
00:30:44,287 --> 00:30:46,007
Speaker 3: just think it's ethically dubious.

639
00:30:46,247 --> 00:30:47,367
Speaker 2: I think it's depressing.

640
00:30:47,727 --> 00:30:50,087
Speaker 3: I agree that's all we've.

641
00:30:49,927 --> 00:30:53,087
Speaker 2: Got time for today, out louders, some of us, all

642
00:30:53,127 --> 00:30:55,727
Speaker 2: of us, a few of us, and Amelia might be

643
00:30:55,767 --> 00:30:57,367
Speaker 2: popping up in the next few days. We're going to

644
00:30:57,407 --> 00:30:59,647
Speaker 2: be giving you your regular show on Friday, of course,

645
00:30:59,967 --> 00:31:03,167
Speaker 2: for a whole dose of escapism. But until then, we

646
00:31:03,247 --> 00:31:05,607
Speaker 2: love you loads. Thanks to our fabulous team for helping

647
00:31:05,647 --> 00:31:07,767
Speaker 2: us on this big week, and we'll see you tomorrow.

648
00:31:08,007 --> 00:31:12,287
Speaker 3: Bye bye Mayor have you ever thought about a buzz cut?

649
00:31:12,807 --> 00:31:15,407
Speaker 4: I have cut my hair really really short on a

650
00:31:15,487 --> 00:31:18,167
Speaker 4: number of occasions I've seen one time, I also bleached

651
00:31:18,207 --> 00:31:20,367
Speaker 4: it white, so I looked like the eightieth pop star.

652
00:31:20,447 --> 00:31:25,407
Speaker 4: Yeahs okay, Well, always up after that haircut.

653
00:31:25,567 --> 00:31:28,127
Speaker 3: If you need a break from the US election, you

654
00:31:28,167 --> 00:31:29,967
Speaker 3: need some escapism and you want to talk about hair,

655
00:31:30,087 --> 00:31:33,327
Speaker 3: well let me tell you. Holly and Vernon and I

656
00:31:33,367 --> 00:31:37,207
Speaker 3: had a fascinating conversation about hair and what it means

657
00:31:37,207 --> 00:31:39,687
Speaker 3: for women, and it was based off Holly was listening

658
00:31:39,687 --> 00:31:42,927
Speaker 3: to a fascinating podcast with Elizabeth Gilbert, who talked about

659
00:31:43,407 --> 00:31:45,967
Speaker 3: the realization of the epiphany she had that made her

660
00:31:45,967 --> 00:31:49,927
Speaker 3: shave her head and how much sort of hair cuts,

661
00:31:49,967 --> 00:31:52,447
Speaker 3: what we choose to do with our hair changes our identity.

662
00:31:52,527 --> 00:31:53,407
Speaker 3: Here's a snake peek.

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00:31:53,927 --> 00:31:57,167
Speaker 6: I always heard that there's no other feeling than feeling

664
00:31:57,287 --> 00:31:59,327
Speaker 6: wind on the back of your hair, and I'm like,

665
00:31:59,367 --> 00:32:01,687
Speaker 6: I want to experience that so badly. But I think

666
00:32:02,167 --> 00:32:06,247
Speaker 6: people associate a personality to your hair, like they automatically

667
00:32:06,287 --> 00:32:08,967
Speaker 6: assume he were. And I know this because I think

668
00:32:08,967 --> 00:32:10,687
Speaker 6: it was three or four years ago. Now, do you

669
00:32:10,687 --> 00:32:11,647
Speaker 6: remember when I went blue?

670
00:32:12,047 --> 00:32:12,327
Speaker 5: Yes?

671
00:32:12,967 --> 00:32:15,247
Speaker 6: What did I do when I went blue? Because I

672
00:32:15,327 --> 00:32:18,247
Speaker 6: was still dating at the time, and I remember at

673
00:32:18,367 --> 00:32:22,487
Speaker 6: least five or six men who would always swipe left

674
00:32:22,527 --> 00:32:25,847
Speaker 6: on me on the dating app swipe right. Oh, and

675
00:32:25,927 --> 00:32:29,887
Speaker 6: I remember thinking, they assume a personality to this hairstyle.

676
00:32:30,047 --> 00:32:32,047
Speaker 3: What do you think they were assuming? I think it's

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00:32:32,127 --> 00:32:33,687
Speaker 3: like if you want to listen to the rest, there

678
00:32:33,727 --> 00:32:34,727
Speaker 3: is a link in our show.

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Speaker 2: Notes shout out to any Mama Mia subscribers listening. If

680
00:32:38,007 --> 00:32:40,207
Speaker 2: you love the show and you want to support us,

681
00:32:40,487 --> 00:32:43,167
Speaker 2: subscribing to Mama Mia is the very best way to

682
00:32:43,247 --> 00:32:45,607
Speaker 2: do it. There's a link in the episode description