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Speaker 1: This episode of Seize the A is brought to you

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Speaker 1: by Matrix.

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Speaker 2: There is fear of success in that you're more visible,

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Speaker 2: and there's that idea that you need to represent everyone.

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Speaker 2: I never pretend to try to represent all of First

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Speaker 2: Nations Australia, nor do I ever want to. I think

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Speaker 2: that separation allows you to stay on track with your values,

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Speaker 2: and your values ultimately are the most important thing about joy.

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Speaker 2: If you're not doing things that are tied to your

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Speaker 2: values and there's conflict, and conflict is opposite to joy

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Speaker 2: in my opinion.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Sees the YA Podcast. Busy and happy

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Speaker 1: are not the same thing. We too rarely question what

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Speaker 1: makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but

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Speaker 1: rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than

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Speaker 1: one way. So this is a platform to hear and

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Speaker 1: explore the stories of those who found lives.

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Speaker 3: They adore the good, bad and ugly. The best and worst.

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Speaker 1: Day will bear all the facets of seizing your Yay.

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Speaker 1: I'm Sarah Davidson or a spoonful of Sarah, A lawyer

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Speaker 1: turned unentrepreneurs walked the suits and heels to co found

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Speaker 1: Matcha Maiden and Matcha Milk bar Cza is a series

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Speaker 1: of conversations on finding a life you love and exploring

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Speaker 1: the self doubt, challenge, joy and fulfillment along the way.

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Speaker 1: I only met today's guest in person recently, but we

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Speaker 1: happen to share the same management, which basically makes us

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Speaker 1: family very big shout out to Jen and her amazing

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Speaker 1: team at day Management. But I'd separately been a great

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Speaker 1: admirer of this guest's work since long before then. Rachel

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Speaker 1: Sarah is a contemporary Aboriginal artist and designer from Gore

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Speaker 1: and Gorn Country, whose incredible work is a powerful tool

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Speaker 1: for storytelling, change making and spreading the very colorful Ya,

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Speaker 1: crashing right through the dot painting stereotype and challenging society's

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Speaker 1: perception of Aboriginal art and identity. Rachel's style is uniquely energetic,

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Speaker 1: engaging and full of bright colors. She pushes up to

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Speaker 1: new boundaries, from being projected onto the William Jolly Bridge

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Speaker 1: to the packaging of some incredible brand collaborations like Matrix

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Speaker 1: Hair which you will hear all about, as well as

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Speaker 1: the Body Shop and How We Roll Code, just to

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Speaker 1: name a few. I found out, however, that she originally

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Speaker 1: hoped to be the sixth Spice Girl until I planted

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Speaker 1: a big, fat and ata all over that. This was

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Speaker 1: also my first time as an accidental kill joy, and

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Speaker 1: probably a hint at how much fun we had going

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Speaker 1: off on random tangents between exploring her path Ya to date,

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Speaker 1: Rache is another great example that what you advocate for

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Speaker 1: might not be trendy until one day it is. But

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Speaker 1: the change makers among us are the ones who stick

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Speaker 1: with it anyway. I love this woman and everything she's about,

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Speaker 1: and I hope you do too, Rach, Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 4: Thanks for having me. I'm so excited.

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Speaker 3: I'm so excited. It's so lovely to see you.

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Speaker 2: I know, so good to see you, albeit virtually but great.

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Speaker 4: Nonetheless, I feel like.

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Speaker 1: I'm getting a little bit of the northern sunshine through

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Speaker 1: the screen, through your beautiful face.

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Speaker 2: I'll give you some through this interview, hopefully shines through.

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Speaker 1: I'll take what I can get at the moment. Although

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Speaker 1: I think about it all the time, imagine going through

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Speaker 1: this particular period of the earth without the Internet, Like,

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Speaker 1: how lucky are we that it happened in the digital

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Speaker 1: age where we could actually see other people's faces.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and honestly, imagine like a life without memes and.

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Speaker 4: We'd be lost.

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Speaker 1: I know, people like, so, how are you coping in

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Speaker 1: round five? I'm like, well, psychologists a lot of self

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Speaker 1: care and memes. Really they're just pulling me right through

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Speaker 1: this whole experience.

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Speaker 2: I just like, please refer to this meme, and that's

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Speaker 2: how I'm feeling. It's like a love language.

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Speaker 3: Do you know what.

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Speaker 1: There's actually a meme about friendships where you're relationship is

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Speaker 1: just sending memes back and forth with like no commentary

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Speaker 1: to each other. Like, yeah, I have a good few

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Speaker 1: friendships that are solely maybe memes plus emojis.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but like no words.

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Speaker 2: No, I'm like a solid friendship is like memes and

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Speaker 2: like time zone. I feel like that's a good love

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Speaker 2: language too.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, so good.

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Speaker 1: And Facebook memories of like the glory days when we

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Speaker 1: actually were like pretty and went out and put makeup

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Speaker 1: on and made an effort in our life and went

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Speaker 1: out past eight pm.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, except I.

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Speaker 2: Have this like period of time where, like ten years ago,

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Speaker 2: I used to put like everything on the Internet, and

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Speaker 2: I go through every day like I need to delete

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Speaker 2: this one, I need to delete this one.

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Speaker 3: I do the same.

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Speaker 1: I was actually talking about this at dinner last night.

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Speaker 1: My mom was like, remember that time your old school

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Speaker 1: friend I'd run into her on the street and she

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, I saw a photo of Sarah on

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Speaker 1: Exchange and I think she was in a gutter, Like

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Speaker 1: how was she going? And I was like, Oh, did

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Speaker 1: I voluntarily put up that material on my own page?

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Speaker 4: Yes?

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Speaker 1: I think I did. And I had to go back

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Speaker 1: and like delete the album. I was like, why would

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Speaker 1: I put that up there?

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Speaker 2: I know it's I like have view by only me,

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Speaker 2: So I'm like, I know how far I've gone, but like,

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Speaker 2: let's not go back there publicly.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's a good one. Yeah, you do want to

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Speaker 1: delete the memories because they're kind of funny. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: like maybe you don't want everyone to.

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Speaker 4: Work seem exactly exactly.

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Speaker 1: Well, that is actually a lovely place to start. I

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Speaker 1: start every episode by asking what the most down to

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Speaker 1: earth thing is about our guest to break through what

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Speaker 1: is often a very service level projected identity through social

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Speaker 1: media or through you know, the amazing achievements of which

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Speaker 1: you have many, But what is something that you would

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Speaker 1: say other than your period of putting lots of randoms

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Speaker 1: on the internet.

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Speaker 3: It's really relatable about.

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Speaker 4: You, relatable about me.

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Speaker 2: I when Jen sent me this question, I was like, damn,

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Speaker 2: I would like to think lots of me is down

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Speaker 2: to earth, and if not, I feel like my social

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Speaker 2: and anxiety knocks me down a few rungs if I

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Speaker 2: do ahead of myself.

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Speaker 4: But honestly, I feel.

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Speaker 2: Like for me, like a lot of what I put

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Speaker 2: out on the Internet is truly me, and I don't

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Speaker 2: try to be something else.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, everything you see.

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Speaker 2: Pretty much is me, I would say, which is probably

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Speaker 2: not the best answer.

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Speaker 1: But I think it's a great answer, but it's a

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Speaker 1: hard one, Like it's weird. It's easy for someone else

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Speaker 1: maybe to describe what's down to earth about you, and

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Speaker 1: it's weird when you get like, I know, it's a

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Speaker 1: weird question to start with an often kind of hard

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Speaker 1: to answer about yourself. But I think it's nice to

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Speaker 1: reflect on what you know. Other people might call out

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Speaker 1: different things, but what you actually think is really normal

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Speaker 1: or relatable or human about it, you might be something different.

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Speaker 1: So I always like to even if it's the first

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Speaker 1: time you might have reflected on it. It's really nice

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Speaker 1: that you don't think there is much that isn't the

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Speaker 1: you that people see that isn't also how you are normally.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well I feel like every time I open up

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Speaker 2: bumble and have to refresh my.

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Speaker 4: Fall again, am I why are still single?

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Speaker 1: Well?

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Speaker 3: That in itself is pretty much. But do you know

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Speaker 3: what I also think is really interesting?

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Speaker 1: And this is why I love the first section your Wayta,

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Speaker 1: which is where we go through all the chapters before

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Speaker 1: the one that most of the people walk in on

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Speaker 1: and meet you now sort of seeing that you have

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Speaker 1: a clear direction and a purpose and passion and you know,

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Speaker 1: you know what you love and you know what you

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Speaker 1: don't love is that we didn't all start necessarily being

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Speaker 1: comfortable enough with ourself to be exactly who we are

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Speaker 1: on socials or to you know, I think we get

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Speaker 1: pulled in all different directions and spend a lot of

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Speaker 1: our lives pretending to be someone else.

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Speaker 3: So take us back to the very very.

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Speaker 1: Beginning, because I think in childhood we start pretty unfiltered

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Speaker 1: before we let lots of different you know, expectations and

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Speaker 1: norms and you know, judgment and fear change who we are.

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Speaker 1: What was young Rachel like growing up in Queensland? And

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Speaker 1: you know, what was school you like, what were the

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Speaker 1: ideas of your future back then? I kind of believe

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Speaker 1: there were like three careers that existed. Ever, what was

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Speaker 1: your idea of career and future and what you wanted

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Speaker 1: to be.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I was convinced I was going to be

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Speaker 2: a spice girl for.

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Speaker 3: A very long time, good one, you can.

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Speaker 2: So my dad he used to like work away for

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Speaker 2: a while, like he'd be away for a few months

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Speaker 2: and like at a time, and at the time, there

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Speaker 2: used to be these little Spice Girl books and like

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Speaker 2: spice Girl impulse, like perfume and all of this.

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Speaker 3: I got impulse, Like all of my all.

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Speaker 2: Of these different like iconic nineties products just had Spice

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Speaker 2: Girls branded all over them. So he'd bring home like

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Speaker 2: little spice Girl like memorabilia for me, and I was

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Speaker 2: just convinced I'd be a spice girl. But again, having

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Speaker 2: older brothers kind of knocked me down a few pegs.

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Speaker 2: I used to sing everything, like I'd narrate my life

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Speaker 2: by singing around the house, and my older brother would

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Speaker 2: be like, can.

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Speaker 4: You just shut up? Like that's so annoying.

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Speaker 2: So I think from a young age I was very

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Speaker 2: self expressive in a way. That was different to how

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Speaker 2: you normally would be. But yeah, I was convinced I

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Speaker 2: was going to be a spice girl for a very

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Speaker 2: long time. I still have photos of like me with

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Speaker 2: all the spice girl get up. But yeah, I guess

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Speaker 2: I clung to that for a while.

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Speaker 1: Did the bubble burst when you realize that, unfortunately there's

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Speaker 1: already five, they're probably not going to audition anyone else.

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Speaker 1: I mean that's the only barrier. There were no other barriers.

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Speaker 1: Obviously they would have taken you if there was a spot.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like, just now you've burst my bubble.

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Speaker 2: It was it was really fall for a while.

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Speaker 1: No, maybe you could be anything you want to be.

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Speaker 1: You could absolutely be a spice girl.

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Speaker 4: No, honestly, I can't sing. I've come to that conclusion.

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Speaker 2: So that kind of burst maybe when I was like

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't say even as late as twelve, like that

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Speaker 2: sounds really bad, but like they were still very cool

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Speaker 2: at that stage. But then I don't know, I feel

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Speaker 2: like I was cool but not cool, Like I thought

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Speaker 2: I was like cool, but then there was I look

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Speaker 2: back and I'm like, nah, definitely not. I was a

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Speaker 2: pretty like a pretty big door, like I played sport

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Speaker 2: a lot of my childhood, so I was very sporty

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Speaker 2: and a bit tomboyish. But yeah, I think I can't

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Speaker 2: even explain me as a child because it feels like

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Speaker 2: too close to like again, have that like view of yourself,

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Speaker 2: like and I feel like from a young age we

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Speaker 2: don't have those skills to kind of reflect on, and

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Speaker 2: then we kind of lose our memories a little bit. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but definitely there was always this idea that I never

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Speaker 2: felt like I belonged one hundred percent in any area.

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Speaker 2: Like I'd probably describe myself as a bit of a

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Speaker 2: floater amongst friend groups as well, So I would kind

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Speaker 2: of go to places that would burst up my energy

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Speaker 2: for short amount of times, and then I'd kind of

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Speaker 2: go to a few other places. And I don't know

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Speaker 2: if that's like the Gemini in me, but yeah, I

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Speaker 2: felt like I was always searching for like somewhere to

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Speaker 2: belong and feel myself. So that's like little Rachel, I guess.

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Speaker 3: Oh, little Rachel.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a lot of people's experience as well

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Speaker 1: when they're younger, Like, there's obviously a lot of people

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Speaker 1: in the category of I watched a show when I

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Speaker 1: was younger, I saw a stethoscope and that was it.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to be a doctor, and then I went,

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Speaker 1: you know, doctor, doctor, doctor, and now I'm a doctor.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I think that the vast majority of us,

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Speaker 1: on the other hand, see other kids like that and

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Speaker 1: don't feel so drawn to one particular thing and then

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Speaker 1: sort of get a bit confused why we don't have

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Speaker 1: a clear passion or a clear pathway, and then get

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Speaker 1: a bit lost in that whole process. And what I

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Speaker 1: think is really interesting for our listeners is that because

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Speaker 1: you did end up going into the arts, I think

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Speaker 1: that's something people would love to hear about how you

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Speaker 1: got there, because it is generally something that when you're

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Speaker 1: younger you don't actually believe could be a career because

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Speaker 1: it's too fun, or because it's not a conventional pathway.

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Speaker 1: It's not obvious how you would end up there, and

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it wasn't an overnight success and an easy,

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Speaker 1: smooth pathway either. But before we get into sort of

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Speaker 1: that stage, because I love looking at that kind of

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Speaker 1: high school like Ipswich girls, grammar to then choosing your

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Speaker 1: bachelor of viscom like I'm fascinated by when you decided

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Speaker 1: to make career decisions rather than just I want to

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Speaker 1: do this because I love it decisions. But firstly, on

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Speaker 1: that note of belonging, I think that's really interesting as well,

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Speaker 1: because with your Aboriginal heritage, I imagine that was also

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Speaker 1: part of your younger childhood experience of wondering where you

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Speaker 1: fit in and in a time where we were probably

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Speaker 1: a little bit further behind the April than we are

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Speaker 1: now in terms of diversity and inclusivity, which I had

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Speaker 1: in primary school as well. So can you talk to

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Speaker 1: us about that and growing up on go and growing

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Speaker 1: country and how that's been part of your identity.

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Speaker 2: Well, the interesting thing is I actually never grew up

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Speaker 2: on country, so I've kind of grown up in Ipswich,

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Speaker 2: which is kind of like Yagara Jagger country. So for me,

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Speaker 2: there's always like a distance between that cultural connection, and

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Speaker 2: I think my dad did a really good job of

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Speaker 2: protecting us in a way. And you know, for a

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Speaker 2: long time I got to celebrate just the beautiful things

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Speaker 2: of my culture as a light skin Aboriginal woman. You know,

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Speaker 2: I could exist in this cultural lens without visibly sticking out,

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Speaker 2: which is something that you know I do grapple with

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Speaker 2: even today. But you know, I always knew I was Aboriginal.

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Speaker 2: I always knew I was proud to be Aboriginal. I

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Speaker 2: always knew my dad loves his culture. But there was

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Speaker 2: just something that I never felt like I could see

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Speaker 2: myself reflected in the environments that I was in, and

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Speaker 2: you know, having a bit of a separation from my

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Speaker 2: cousins who were growing up on country, and you know,

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Speaker 2: my grandma lived on country as well, so and as

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Speaker 2: well as kind of being so involved in sport, which

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Speaker 2: I still i'm thankful for because it gave me a

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Speaker 2: lot of life skills, but what it meant was I

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Speaker 2: was a very busy child, so I struggled to get

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Speaker 2: back on country. So I feel like for me, there

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Speaker 2: was that sense of belonging in my direct family group,

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Speaker 2: but there was this uneasiness and this I guess emptiness

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Speaker 2: being away from country. And you know, it's just it's

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Speaker 2: like it's not necessarily a physical thing, but it's this

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Speaker 2: energy and this spiritual kind of ease that you feel

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Speaker 2: when you're back on country. So to live off country

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Speaker 2: and to have that disconnection, you know, from family, from

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Speaker 2: my grandma, it was something that I didn't understand at

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Speaker 2: a young age, and it's probably more so now that

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Speaker 2: I've understood the impacts that it's had on me, but

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Speaker 2: it it's also something that has created a drive in

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Speaker 2: me as well to kind of be who I needed

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Speaker 2: when I was younger and kind of invite other mob

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Speaker 2: in to kind of, you know, come to terms with Unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: colonization happened and we are still grappling with the the

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Speaker 2: outcome of that, and not everyone's going to have the

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Speaker 2: privilege of knowing their language, living on country, knowing their customs,

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Speaker 2: and so for me, like how I belonged in that

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Speaker 2: narrative and in that story was, yeah, trying to be

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Speaker 2: someone who I needed when I was younger and kind

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Speaker 2: of inviting people into those conversations.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 1: And you've done such an incredible job at helping share

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Speaker 1: the way you're grappling with your own narrative and coming

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Speaker 1: into that identity and then sharing it with others, but

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Speaker 1: becoming also a really vocal spokesperson for how to redress

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Speaker 1: the inequalities of the past and wate forward and easing

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Speaker 1: your artwork as a beautiful expression.

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Speaker 3: And again, I think it would.

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Speaker 1: Be very easy for people who only met you now

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Speaker 1: to think, oh, well, she obviously grew up on country

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Speaker 1: and has always been comfortable with her identity and knows

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Speaker 1: exactly who she is.

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Speaker 3: But it's always so fascinating to hear that.

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Speaker 1: Of course it never happens that way, but I think

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Speaker 1: it's reassuring to others who are maybe feeling a little

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Speaker 1: bit lost earlier in their journey that you can get

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Speaker 1: to a position where you feel more comfortable to speak

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Speaker 1: about it and more comfortable to find where your voice

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Speaker 1: will hit the most effectively in the conversation.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, So when did art then become the way that

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Speaker 1: you wanted to express yourself? Because again, I think it's

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Speaker 1: very very encouraged when we're younger, but then when it's

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Speaker 1: like you have to have a job now, a lot

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Speaker 1: of creative sort of lose sight of the fact that

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Speaker 1: they could keep going with their art. But I love

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Speaker 1: that you studied viscom so you must have had it

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Speaker 1: in your mind that it was your career path. Is

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Speaker 1: that what you sort of had in your head back then?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I still feel like there's a little part

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Speaker 2: of me holding on to being a spice girl.

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Speaker 1: No, I know, I'm so sorry, Like I'm supposed to

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Speaker 1: be spreading joy and I just.

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Speaker 3: Like ata right there in the classroom. Now, I know,

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Speaker 3: I'm such a bitch.

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Speaker 4: No, I feel like that's the questioning I could distracted.

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Speaker 1: Girl, When did you decide on Viskov? Did you ever

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Speaker 1: go through that phase at school where you went from like,

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Speaker 1: this is what I love doing, But then I think

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Speaker 1: something switches in like U ten or eleven, where you're like, oh, no,

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Speaker 1: this is what I have to do.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is how I'm going to make a

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Speaker 3: career out of it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely.

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Speaker 2: I think like one of the hardest things to understand

355
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Speaker 2: is like this idea of like and this image that

356
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Speaker 2: society has kind of placed on us, that you know,

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Speaker 2: there's this starving artist kind of narrative that happens. So

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Speaker 2: for a very long time I kind of had a

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Speaker 2: bit of friction towards pursuing that career, thinking that, you know,

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Speaker 2: my goal in life is to be financially free, so

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Speaker 2: I didn't have to depend on structure that have proven

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Speaker 2: to oppress us for so long. But I think for me,

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Speaker 2: there's two moments. I feel like one I kind of

364
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Speaker 2: reflect on is understanding that being different is a good

365
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Speaker 2: thing and that happened in in grade seven, we had

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Speaker 2: this art project where we had to do a self portrait.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Fun, right, And in that project we kind of did

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Speaker 2: it over the course of a few weeks. But then

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Speaker 2: they were all kind of displayed in our undercover area

371
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Speaker 2: where you have lunch in primary school. But sorry, I

372
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Speaker 2: got distracted because my dogs just walked back.

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Speaker 5: Like it outside, so just sitting in the sun basking

374
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Speaker 5: and like so good.

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Speaker 1: What a healthy little boy was just like, mate, look

376
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Speaker 1: at this, and he's like, excuse me, can you please

377
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Speaker 1: send me some I'm not doing to.

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Speaker 4: My mental health thing. It's so distracted. I'm like, dogs, no.

379
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Speaker 2: But I think when they were kind of displayed in

380
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Speaker 2: this undercover area, you saw like this traditional way of

381
00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:18,840
Speaker 2: thinking of self portraits. You know, you had skin color,

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Speaker 2: which at the time was very limited and there wasn't

383
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Speaker 2: a lot of diversity in prima school. But you know,

384
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Speaker 2: there was the classic shape of your eyes and nose

385
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Speaker 2: and mouth and ears, so classic features that you would

386
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Speaker 2: kind of if you were to look in the mirror.

387
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Speaker 2: For most people you would see reflected. But for me,

388
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Speaker 2: it was kind of more like I still have this

389
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Speaker 2: artwork to this day.

390
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Speaker 4: Actually that's amazing.

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Speaker 2: I kind of have held on to it as like

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Speaker 2: a remember that feeling and like keep it with you.

393
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Speaker 2: But yeah, for me, it was more like organic movement

394
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Speaker 2: of the of the line work color and on one

395
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Speaker 2: side I had you know, warmer colors and then cooler

396
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Speaker 2: colors on the other side to come kind of, I guess,

397
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,639
Speaker 2: portray the fact that I am a mixed race Aboriginal

398
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Speaker 2: woman and you know, I do have different sides to

399
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Speaker 2: myself and I don't see myself as reflected in this community.

400
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Speaker 2: So instead, I'm going to create something that I feel

401
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,240
Speaker 2: really passionate about and I feel a lot of joy

402
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,879
Speaker 2: from it. So that was probably one of the moments

403
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Speaker 2: where I knew I loved art and I loved that

404
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:29,439
Speaker 2: it had a role in my narrative by creating an

405
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:34,240
Speaker 2: environment that didn't necessarsarily exist, but that I could kind

406
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:39,000
Speaker 2: of develop and create and manipulate in a way that

407
00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:43,400
Speaker 2: reflected my journey and my being and experiences, I guess.

408
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Speaker 2: And then in high school, I was really fortunate to

409
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Speaker 2: have a really great art teacher, missus May's to this day,

410
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:56,200
Speaker 2: we're still you know, in contact, and that's just so great,

411
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Speaker 2: and I feel like we really underestimate the role that

412
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Speaker 2: teachers and play on like our futures. You know, like

413
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,440
Speaker 2: if you're in an environment where you feel safe and

414
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,280
Speaker 2: you feel like you can express yourself and explore your

415
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,719
Speaker 2: identity and you know your thoughts in a way that

416
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,719
Speaker 2: you're not criticized, and I think for me, particularly because

417
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,399
Speaker 2: you know, in maths and science, you have answers that

418
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 2: you need to reach, you have destinations that you need

419
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Speaker 2: to get to, whereas with art, there was a freedom

420
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Speaker 2: to it, and there was I guess the subjectiveness that

421
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,679
Speaker 2: allowed me to again create something that I believed in

422
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 2: that I could see myself in that you know, the

423
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,359
Speaker 2: person next to me might not have been able to

424
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Speaker 2: create or see themselves, So that to me was I

425
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Speaker 2: guess it was this energy that I felt when creating

426
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Speaker 2: art and a freedom that I felt that really made

427
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Speaker 2: me want to do this for the rest of.

428
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Speaker 4: My life, I guess. Yeah.

429
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Speaker 2: But then kind of you go into university and you

430
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Speaker 2: kind of in those structures again, so it's a bit

431
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,800
Speaker 2: of a Yeah, it's a battle every day, but yeah,

432
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Speaker 2: those two moments are probably key points.

433
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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I have goosebumps from just thinking about

434
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,679
Speaker 1: you having that revelation of like, this is what I

435
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:11,800
Speaker 1: want to go forth in the.

436
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 3: World and do.

437
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 1: And I love that reminder too that even once you

438
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,240
Speaker 1: have that a hoa moment, which takes a lot of

439
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 1: people a lot longer to actually get to, you still

440
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,119
Speaker 1: do have to spend a little bit of time before

441
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:24,320
Speaker 1: it manifests the way you want to.

442
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,880
Speaker 3: You do have to go. You had to go to UNI,

443
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 3: and then you had.

444
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,160
Speaker 1: To do a few you know, work as a designer

445
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 1: at a couple of places in structures before you know

446
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:35,639
Speaker 1: you were ready for the chapter where you could go

447
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 1: freelance in twenty seventeen, and then it's been obviously like

448
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 1: quite a few years since then. And I think it's

449
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:45,159
Speaker 1: really interesting that I was talking to you know, flex

450
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,359
Speaker 1: Yes on her episode Yeah Love Obsessed. We talked a

451
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,919
Speaker 1: lot about the idea that it's not cool to be

452
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,879
Speaker 1: doing something different and unique until it is. And so

453
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,159
Speaker 1: even though you had that revelation like back then, the

454
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 1: world might not have been ready and maybe you weren't

455
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 1: ready to deliver it the way you are now back then.

456
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 1: So I think we're really impatient to get to the end.

457
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:08,119
Speaker 1: Like you said, there's always answers, We always want to

458
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:09,440
Speaker 1: be like, Okay, this is my passion. I know I

459
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:10,680
Speaker 1: want to be an artist, and now I want to

460
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,359
Speaker 1: wake up tomorrow and be an artiste. But like, you

461
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,640
Speaker 1: had to go through all these little steps to sort

462
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 1: of figure out what kind of artist and what was

463
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 1: your audience and what was going to translate and what's

464
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:21,880
Speaker 1: your style and what are your colors?

465
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,160
Speaker 3: And I just that comes back to me all.

466
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 1: The time, the idea that what you're doing isn't going

467
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 1: to necessarily hit the audience you wanted to until the

468
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 1: day that it does. And it's like you might get

469
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 1: criticism or doubters or haters or whatever, until the day

470
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 1: that suddenly everyone wakes up to.

471
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,119
Speaker 3: Like, oh that is what she's here for. That is

472
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:41,680
Speaker 3: what she's.

473
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,360
Speaker 1: Doing, and now you're everywhere. But it didn't start that way.

474
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 1: That's my point, which I think is always important to remember.

475
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,640
Speaker 1: So what did then get you to the point where

476
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 1: you were like, I'm going to freelance. I'm going to

477
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: be an artist, not just do art. It's not just

478
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 1: my passion, but this is going to be what I do.

479
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 1: And then how do you think you've been able to

480
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 1: create what you have such an incredible community? I mean,

481
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 1: with you know, a coambassadors as part of the amazing

482
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: matrix hair around. You literally have designed the packaging that

483
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:12,400
Speaker 1: is unbelievable.

484
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 3: Your work has been.

485
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 1: Projected on a bridge like blows in my mind. You know,

486
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,360
Speaker 1: I don't even I kind of imagine how that feels,

487
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,199
Speaker 1: Like what's the gap in between that aha moment and

488
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 1: then these highlights a.

489
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 2: Lot of late nights and tears and warm EPs and

490
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 2: salt blas. Yes, I think it's like a really important

491
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:41,360
Speaker 2: question to kind of get into because looking back, I

492
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 2: think it's where I shifted from being complacent in a

493
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:50,120
Speaker 2: salary job to really going forward and investing in myself.

494
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 2: And I guess it's also a time that I look

495
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,439
Speaker 2: back on not so fondly as well, and one that

496
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 2: still brings a lot of kind of stress and anxiety.

497
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 2: And I guess you can look at it from the

498
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 2: perspective that I'm glad it happened because look at me now.

499
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 2: But yeah, so I guess I went from university. To

500
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 2: be honest, I never went to university like I mean

501
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 2: I did, but I lost ten percent attendance marks.

502
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,200
Speaker 4: Most subjects because at.

503
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 2: The time I was still kind of playing sports pretty competitively.

504
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 2: And you know, time poor, and there's part of me

505
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,879
Speaker 2: that still didn't find that passion in university.

506
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 4: I think, like.

507
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,360
Speaker 2: School, I was like, yes, I know what I want

508
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 2: to do, but then getting there, you're kind of taking

509
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 2: back to reality that there's sometimes steps you need to

510
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 2: go through that aren't as glamorous as they sound. And

511
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 2: that definitely was my university degree, mostly because there was

512
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 2: still something missing. I had all the skills, I had

513
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 2: all the programs that I needed, but there was that

514
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 2: like desire and passion that wasn't within me. And I

515
00:25:53,640 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 2: think that's because culture and identity was separate to a

516
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 2: university degree. It was very much kind of like based

517
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 2: on art history that didn't represent me in any way.

518
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 2: So there was I guess a moment there where I

519
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 2: was like, oh, is this actually what I want to do.

520
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 2: But it was after that that I kind of got

521
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 2: out and got a few jobs. I remember getting fired

522
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,439
Speaker 2: from my first job four weeks into it, and I

523
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 2: was like, oh, that was a good thing because I

524
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 2: hated it and you know, resilience and all that time

525
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 2: what we tell ourselves to make us feel better. And

526
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 2: then I kind of went into an agency job that

527
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 2: was an Aboriginal owned indigenous agency, and you know, at

528
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 2: the time, I was still quite young and you know,

529
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 2: had a lot to learn, and they kind of went

530
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 2: more down an entertainment path rather than what I really

531
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 2: was passionate about. And so I decided to kind of

532
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 2: quit my job. It's funny because I just bought a

533
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,679
Speaker 2: new car, so I had like car finance. So I

534
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:01,679
Speaker 2: was like, Okay, I need to find a job to

535
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,640
Speaker 2: pay for this car loan. Like that's my driver at

536
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 2: the moment. I just need to be out to pay

537
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,199
Speaker 2: for this car loan. And that's what was keeping me

538
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 2: in that job for so long. But then it just

539
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 2: got to the point where you can feel an energy

540
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,199
Speaker 2: shift and like bugs you down a little bit. And

541
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 2: so anyway, I quit my job. A week later, I

542
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 2: booked a trip to Bali with one of my good

543
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 2: friends and like had this like change of energy, like

544
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 2: all of this sort of thing, and I was like, yes,

545
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 2: I'm going to go work for myself. It's going to

546
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 2: be amazing, blah blah blah. Two weeks later, I keep

547
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 2: myself taking another salary job.

548
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 4: In another hour.

549
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 2: Another ended in this creative agency and I was there

550
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 2: for like three years.

551
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 4: I think and you.

552
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,360
Speaker 2: Know, that moment, I learn a lot and I kind

553
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 2: of learn a lot about business as well, because I

554
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 2: was kind of like a sponge where although people think

555
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 2: you're a designer, you shouldn't be listening to like the

556
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,199
Speaker 2: project managers and what they're doing. I always knew I

557
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 2: wanted to run my own business at some point, so

558
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 2: I very much like absorbed all of that kind of

559
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 2: energy around. But it kind of just got to a

560
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 2: moment where I felt like I was drowning. I felt

561
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 2: like there was a dark cloud around me again, and

562
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 2: the same feeling that I felt before I kind of

563
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 2: quit my job and went to Bali. And it kind

564
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 2: of it comes down to the environment that you're working

565
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 2: with and the personalities that you work with and like

566
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 2: different dynamics. But I just couldn't feel like I could

567
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 2: grow any further. You know, I'd put myself out there

568
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 2: and I'd be met with resistance. And you know, at

569
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 2: the time, like I said, there was a lot of

570
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 2: nights where I'd cry and I'd feel you know, really

571
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 2: lost and bogged down in this feeling. But it got

572
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 2: to a point where that kind of became the driving force,

573
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 2: you know, I started creating work for myself and posting

574
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 2: it on Instagram, which was you know, shifting my energy.

575
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 4: It was just creating.

576
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 2: Something that you know, I felt like I really enjoyed

577
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 2: and what I wanted to hear and what I needed

578
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 2: to hear of myself, and it just kind of gained

579
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 2: a lot of traction. And you know, it's that moment

580
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 2: where you mentioned, yeah, like you can be different, but

581
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 2: people might not be ready for different. And I feel

582
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 2: like I was lucky in the way that when I

583
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 2: did choose to kind of put work out there, people

584
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 2: were beginning to be a little bit hungrier for you know,

585
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 2: culture and stuff like that. So yeah, I kind of

586
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 2: decided then. You know, at the time, I didn't think

587
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 2: I was going to quit my job. I was trying

588
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 2: to be safe. I was like, I just want to

589
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 2: go down to four days a week and you know,

590
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 2: start building up that side hustle, because you know, it's

591
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 2: crazy for me to just completely cut like my whole

592
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 2: salary out and go for you know, myself.

593
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 4: But it kind of got to the point.

594
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 2: Where I had no choice but to quit my job

595
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 2: and like fully invest in myself. And it just happened that, Yeah,

596
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 2: there was that hunger and you know four years down

597
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 2: the track where meeting at Matrix and those exciting kind

598
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 2: of rations and co ambassador roles are kind of now happening.

599
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, it just makes me so excited, Like

600
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 1: it just makes me so I don't know, there's a

601
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: fire in my belly just hearing these stories, because I

602
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: know that there are so many people out there who

603
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: are sitting in maybe your pre Barley chapter and just

604
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: thinking like when is it ever going to work for me?

605
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 1: Like other dots are going to start to connect? And

606
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: it just it's such a reassurance to know that you

607
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: had to go through that. You do have to go

608
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: through a couple of twists and turns, and I don't

609
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 1: think you would look back and regret them, even if

610
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: you didn't want to stay there forever. Like you learn

611
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 1: something from everything, and like you said, something felt like

612
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: it was missing.

613
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 3: That's usually a jigsaw.

614
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: Puzzle piece And the only reason you knew what to

615
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: go and like go after was because you knew what

616
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: you didn't want, and it takes you time to figure

617
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: that stuff out. So I love going through that. And

618
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: I think when you did get to that stage where

619
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 1: it just the push was so relentless and you realize

620
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 1: like the timing was right now and if the first

621
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: like Barley chapter, wasn't the right time the second time around.

622
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: It's so exciting that, you know, I think when self

623
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: doubt does come, obviously, when you go and do any

624
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: big jump in your life, self doubt is usually the

625
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 1: first reaction we have, and that can cripple you, almost

626
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: to the point where most people wouldn't.

627
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 3: Go ahead and do it.

628
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 1: But I think the quote I love is that if

629
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: you were to be let yourself doubt stop you from

630
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: going freelance when you did, it would actually be selfish

631
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 1: because all the people who have since looked out into

632
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 1: the world and seen themselves represented in what you do,

633
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 1: so that they don't ever have to feel like you

634
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: did back in the day when you didn't feel like

635
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 1: there was any representation, they wouldn't have had that you

636
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: would have deprived them of what you bring that's unique

637
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: to the landscape.

638
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 3: And oh just makes me so excited that you push through.

639
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 1: And now you are out there, Like you know, Jess Vandala,

640
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 1: who is one of our other co Matrix ambassadors, I

641
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: was talking with her yesterday about this wonderful, wonderful new

642
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: rebrand of Matrix and all of us and Clem's the

643
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 1: same as you know, one of the first trans models

644
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: to really make waves in the industry. I think all

645
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: of us look back at the beauty industry when we

646
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: were younger and remember just going where do I fit?

647
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, like not that you.

648
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 1: Know, the typical Aussie beach bum surfy girl wasn't part

649
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: of Australia. It's just that it wasn't our part of Australia.

650
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 3: And it's so.

651
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: Exciting to remember that feeling and now look around and

652
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 1: see us everywhere.

653
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 3: It's like, yes, I always look at.

654
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 2: Like Matrix so fondly as well, because like obviously we

655
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 2: met during that shoot, and you know, like you said,

656
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 2: like having beauty products that kind of are for all humans,

657
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 2: you know, and all hair types or all skin colors.

658
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 2: You know, it's so important to have that representation but

659
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 2: also have that follow through of you know, really important

660
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 2: impact and really important access to products at a price

661
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,239
Speaker 2: that's affordable. And you know that for me is like

662
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 2: why I do what I do now as well. And

663
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 2: you know, I also love like the fact that you know,

664
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 2: big brands like Matrix kind of embracing culture and I

665
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 2: had the opportunity to, you know, have my artwork on

666
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 2: their products, which is amazing.

667
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 4: I know, it's exciting, it so excited about you.

668
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 3: It's so exciting.

669
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 4: I know, it's like.

670
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 2: It's beautiful to have that representation in mainstream. But you know,

671
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 2: like I say, mainstream, like representation is one thing, but

672
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 2: like I always strive to do more than just that representation.

673
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 2: And no, I look back on, you know, Matrix as

674
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 2: a benchmark that I want to hit a lot of

675
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 2: the times. I was really lucky that Matrix did donate

676
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 2: you know, ten thousand dollars to Sisters Inside, which is

677
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 2: a Brisbane local organization that work for Aboriginal and Torres

678
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 2: Strait Islander women and families who are criminalized. And you know,

679
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 2: representations not what we need to reach necessarily, but it's

680
00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 2: just kind of a wrung that needs to exist as

681
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 2: whole business. And it's that follow through, you know, putting

682
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 2: your money where your mouth is and your action where

683
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 2: your mouth is as well, because yeah, that's how I

684
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 2: feel like we can create genuine change for all of us.

685
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: And I think what's been so exciting in the last

686
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 1: couple of years is that what starts as token ism

687
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 1: which is obviously not ideal, but it's better than nothing.

688
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: And I think in the spectrum of change, that's how

689
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: it sort of starts. So it's a good indicator of

690
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 1: change on a spectrum, but I think we've started to

691
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 1: move beyond that now or it isn't just your token

692
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: Asian or your token Aboriginal person in campaigns. It's like

693
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,879
Speaker 1: built into Like I love that the Matrix products are

694
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: incredible and like we've all been using them. My hair

695
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:42,720
Speaker 1: feels better than it ever has with like the twenty

696
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 1: and one sphrase just my absolute favorite.

697
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,720
Speaker 3: It's twenty and one, Like I'm a busy cow. It's amazing.

698
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: But I love that, like not that much has been

699
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,720
Speaker 1: about the product, Like it's been so much more about

700
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:59,280
Speaker 1: the story and the personalities and our backgrounds and the heritage,

701
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 1: and it's like it's I'm like, is this happening?

702
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 3: Like is this ye? As true? This is so exciting.

703
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's such a special moment to be, you know,

704
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 2: part of that journey as well, because you know, it's

705
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,359
Speaker 2: brands that we knew and we saw growing up, and

706
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 2: it's like wow, Like honestly, it leaves you kind of

707
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 2: speechless for a while. And I think that's probably why

708
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 2: we were so both excited to be you know, coambassadors

709
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 2: and with Jess as well, our other day sister. But honestly, it's.

710
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 4: Just like.

711
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 2: It makes you wonder why more businesses aren't doing that,

712
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 2: because Australia in particular is very multicultural and for a

713
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:48,919
Speaker 2: long time we weren't seen as that and it's such

714
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 2: a special thing to be able to celebrate and to

715
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 2: do that within brands like Matrix and like to represent

716
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 2: Australia so uniquely. It's like so powerful and it just

717
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 2: boggles my mind why more people don't do it.

718
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,359
Speaker 1: I know, but I'm so excited to see brands as

719
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 1: big as Matrix setting such a good example because I think, like,

720
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 1: it's amazing that boutique businesses start there because they have

721
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: much more choice, They might not have as many big

722
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: stakeholders and all that kind of thing, but for someone

723
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 1: under the Loreal branch to actually go and rethink a

724
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: whole campaign is like, this is good.

725
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 3: This is example setting And.

726
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: Also huge, huge shout out to our management team at

727
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 1: Day Management and genevietj who represents three of the four

728
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: Matrix Ambassadors and makes this work possible. And makes these

729
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,839
Speaker 1: big partnerships possible for us. It's yeah, huge shout out

730
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 1: to you guys, we love you so much.

731
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:39,840
Speaker 2: But like that's such a good point as well, like

732
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,720
Speaker 2: having people who have the same values and the same

733
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,800
Speaker 2: kind of standards that you want to meet. Like having

734
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 2: worked with Jen for like a year, I feel culturally

735
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 2: safe with Jen, and I feel culturally safe with like

736
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,879
Speaker 2: the Matrix team, And you know that's such an important

737
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 2: aspect of being abut to do what we do, is

738
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 2: that cultural safety. And you know, having people around you

739
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 2: that will go into the trenches for you.

740
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 3: I totally agree.

741
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 1: And to be able to in a really commercially driven world,

742
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: and you know I talk all the time about success

743
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 1: versus happiness, and values versus just wealth and more and

744
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: all that kind of you know, those important distinctions we're

745
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 1: starting to make. It's so valuable to know that your

746
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 1: career isn't going to be jeopardized if you put your

747
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 1: foot down on the things that you're like, I won't

748
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 1: cross that line or that's where my values are and

749
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 1: I won't align with anything else. You know, once upon

750
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: a time I would have been horrified and so scared

751
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 1: to say no in case like, yeah, I didn't have

752
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: a job the next day, but like someone allows you

753
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 1: to build confidence that what you're doing is worthy and

754
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: valuable and is like, won't fall over tomorrow if you

755
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: don't like bow to you know the masses.

756
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:52,240
Speaker 3: It's really beautiful.

757
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, just a quick break to give one of

758
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: our amazing partners in Ya Matrix a little shout out

759
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: and a very big thank you for making this episode possible.

760
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 1: You may have seen some fabulous, very fun and colorful

761
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 1: content coming out of our photoshoot from earlier in the year. Yep,

762
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: that one where I Got Bangs, which kicked off this

763
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 1: heritage brand's groundbreaking brand refresh and relaunch to better embrace

764
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 1: beauty and of course hair of all kinds. I'm so

765
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: so thrilled to join fellow ambassadors Rachel Sarah, who you

766
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: will be hearing from, Jess Vandalay and AJ Clementine on

767
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 1: the Matrix Australia Squad, particularly since we all share a

768
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: common experience for unique reasons of feeling unrepresented.

769
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 3: In the beauty industry.

770
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: It is so exciting to see the gradual shift towards

771
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 1: diversity and inclusion in beauty media and all kinds of industries.

772
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: With these values underlying the relaunch brand, I'm even more

773
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 1: in love with the product range that offers something for

774
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 1: every hair need. I mean, just look at the four

775
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 1: of us and how different our hair is to each other.

776
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:02,280
Speaker 1: It's available in matrix sales and online. My hot tip

777
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 1: the Total Results Miracle Creator Spray. It's a twenty in

778
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: one covering just about everything I've ever wanted for my hair,

779
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 1: but compatibly with my on the go jam pack lifestyle.

780
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: I'll pop the link in the show notes. You are

781
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 1: welcome from an artist's perspective because I also love to

782
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,760
Speaker 1: like dive really into niche communities that I know nothing about.

783
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:31,760
Speaker 1: You have so many different mediums now, like a bridge. Firstly,

784
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 1: projection onto a bridge is one amazing medium that you

785
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 1: have now conquered. Packaging design, but also actual prints and like,

786
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 1: what from your development as an artist have been your

787
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 1: favorite materials to use? Or what is your preferred method

788
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 1: of creating artwork? Like I love how your colors are

789
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 1: really warm and pinks and oranges, Like how do you

790
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:54,479
Speaker 1: figure out what kind of an artist you are?

791
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 3: In that sense?

792
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's kind of important to note that

793
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 2: three university I did do you know a bachelor design

794
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 2: visual communication design, So like that was very heavily digital

795
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 2: based and graphic designer type role. Over the years, I've

796
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 2: kind of morphed that into what I want it to

797
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 2: be and taking it different places. So I feel most

798
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,399
Speaker 2: comfortable working digitally because that is what I'm trained with,

799
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,959
Speaker 2: but working digitally also allows me to kind of take

800
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 2: my work to those different mediums. So I can project

801
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 2: it onto a bridge, I can wrap it, I can

802
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 2: wrap it on a bus, I can put it on packaging,

803
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 2: So like there's that flexibility to kind of take it

804
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 2: anywhere that the world wants to see it. But I

805
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 2: think there is also something special about putting, you know,

806
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:48,240
Speaker 2: paint to canvas and kind of feeling that movement of

807
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 2: the color and the texture just sucks. It takes more

808
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 2: to clean up than digital, but I think it's like

809
00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 2: it's beautiful to have that diversity with my practice, and

810
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 2: something that I really love is kind of taking my

811
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 2: art different places.

812
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:07,359
Speaker 4: Can you hear that plane coming over?

813
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:08,280
Speaker 3: I actually can't.

814
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 1: Usually I can, but there's always some kind of background.

815
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:12,879
Speaker 1: It's raining really heavily here, so I was like, can

816
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 1: you hear the rain on the roots? We're working from home. Everybody, Okay,

817
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 1: I hope the bin man doesn't come. I had a

818
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 1: Jackhamer out the front the other day. I was like, mate,

819
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 1: this can you not see that? This is HQ in

820
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 1: my pajamas through the window.

821
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 3: He's supposed to be in lockdown, I know.

822
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 2: So, Yeah, I guess the different mediums of like my

823
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 2: art and like having the foundation of digital work is

824
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 2: really powerful to kind of take it places. And yeah,

825
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,799
Speaker 2: I think that's part of the reason why I have

826
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 2: been so successful is because I do have that foundation

827
00:41:55,520 --> 00:42:00,120
Speaker 2: of you know, a degree and the skills, and I

828
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 2: guess the practicality of having a design degree and graphic

829
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 2: design degree but then being able to morphit into something

830
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 2: that works for me. And I think that's the drive

831
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 2: that you need, is like that passion to take it

832
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 2: somewhere other than what you've learned. Like there's something in

833
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 2: certain people that if you are a business owner or

834
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 2: an artist, you just have something different to other people

835
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 2: that gives you that drive to take it somewhere, you know, Like,

836
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 2: I think it's that idea that because there aren't preconceived

837
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 2: ideas of answers that you need to meet or places

838
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 2: you need to go. It's that bubbling energy underneath the

839
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 2: surface that kind of comes alive.

840
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:46,800
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that's also really interesting

841
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 1: in your case is because, like similar to I was

842
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,760
Speaker 1: chatting about with flex that when you are doing something

843
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,319
Speaker 1: that does push things outside the boundaries and there isn't

844
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: really a clear structure to follow up pathway because no

845
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,840
Speaker 1: one's really done it before. Digital hasn't been as flexible

846
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 1: to allow artwork to go aspar and white as it

847
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 1: has now. Is it the grounds for self doubt and

848
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:12,439
Speaker 1: comparison and also not just doubt from yourself but from

849
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 1: others as well, is probably more fertile than it ever

850
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: has been. Yeah, how has that played out for you

851
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 1: in developing such a unique style, because you do have

852
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 1: to do it against as you mentioned before, resistance. There

853
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:26,759
Speaker 1: is always resistance to the first few people who do

854
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 1: something differently. And this section is called NATA because I

855
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 1: think it's as important, if not more so, to talk

856
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 1: about the harder areas of resistance on the way to

857
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:37,720
Speaker 1: your joy than the easy ones.

858
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

859
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 2: And you know, as Aboriginal people, we have this reference

860
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 2: that we refer to, and it's this idea of walking

861
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:50,959
Speaker 2: into worlds. So it's you know, walking in this westernized

862
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,439
Speaker 2: world where these structures exist that have you know, been

863
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 2: put in place to oppress us and have been in

864
00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 2: place to keep us down and keep us in this

865
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 2: place where we can't be successful in this area. But

866
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,399
Speaker 2: then we also have a foot in our you know,

867
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 2: our cultural world and really embracing our heritage and our

868
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 2: identity and you know, the customs and law that has

869
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 2: made us the long as continuing culture in the world.

870
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 2: But growing my business, I've kind of started thinking of

871
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 2: that as you know, walking in three worlds because social

872
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 2: media today is such a huge aspect of where we

873
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:33,320
Speaker 2: exist and it's difficult, you know, like I think having

874
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,760
Speaker 2: that conflict, then grappling with your identity and then having

875
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 2: this social media or a tool that grants people access

876
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 2: to you. And you know, I did mention I do

877
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 2: put a lot of myself out there, a lot of

878
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:47,760
Speaker 2: my work out there, and you know, my business growth

879
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 2: I put it down to being able to use Instagram

880
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 2: for beneficial ways. But it's that access that people and

881
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 2: that audacity that people think that they know you better

882
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 2: then you know yourself, or that expectations that you place

883
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 2: on other people that you may not know because you

884
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 2: have a phone and you have social media, you have Instagram, TikTok, Twitter,

885
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 2: So I think like those moments where you are met

886
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 2: with resistance, it can be quite crippling and can it

887
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 2: can put a lot of fear in you. But also,

888
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:25,319
Speaker 2: like we talk about that idea of fear and fear

889
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 2: of failure, but growing like my business, no one really

890
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 2: talks about that fear of success as well. Like I

891
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 2: feel like some for some you feel comfortable in failing

892
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 2: because you know you can just get up and do

893
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 2: it again. But when you start kind of ticking boxes

894
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:50,240
Speaker 2: and you know, having successful projects and you know, successful interviews, collaborations,

895
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 2: there is that fear of success in that you're more visible,

896
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 2: and there's that idea that you need to represent everyone.

897
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 2: And that's very much not what I set out to do.

898
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 2: I never pretend to try to represent all of first

899
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:09,399
Speaker 2: nations Australia, nor do I ever want to. But it's

900
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 2: having that confidence to say, you know, this is who

901
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:15,400
Speaker 2: I am, this is my story, but it's one of

902
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 2: many stories that make up our nation. And I think

903
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 2: that's some of the hardest things that you kind of

904
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 2: have to come to terms with.

905
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:24,319
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, fear of success is such a good

906
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: point because there is such a renewed emphasis in conversation

907
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: on fear of failure and why failure is an opportunity

908
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 1: for learning, and like it's becoming much less stigmatized. But

909
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 1: fear of success is this next step that I yeah,

910
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 1: you're so right, it's as crippling, but people don't talk

911
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:44,040
Speaker 1: about it as much because it does draw a lot

912
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: more access, it does draw more criticism, it does draw yes,

913
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 1: so much spotlight on every single little thing you're doing.

914
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 1: And I imagine that, like I can't even remember who

915
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 1: I was talking about, but I recently came back. I

916
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 1: think you know, I was trekking the Larapinto Trail, which

917
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 1: was yes, absolutely incredible, and to do it with the

918
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:06,759
Speaker 1: elders whose family were from that part of country was

919
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: just it was mind blowing and I learned so much,

920
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 1: firstly about you know, he's like literally everyone just comes

921
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 1: up to me and he's like, can you play the

922
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 1: did jurudo? And that's not even from my culture, Like,

923
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 1: that's not even from my people. I don't know how

924
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 1: to play. I can play other instruments which you've probably

925
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 1: never heard of. But I was like, wow, yeah, people

926
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 1: are really ignorant. But you know, he's like, yeah, he

927
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 1: was part of the Stolen generation and was came to

928
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 1: school in Melbourne and did feel like had quite an

929
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:37,800
Speaker 1: identity crisis when he was assimilated and then got told,

930
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 1: you know that he wasn't Aboriginal enough, and he's like, well,

931
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 1: what am I like, Either I'm not Australian enough or

932
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 1: I'm not Indigenous enough, Like you can't win, which made

933
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 1: him realize, actually, you're never going to please everyone, particularly

934
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: in a conversation where our First nations people, I think

935
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 1: people mistake them as one language, one culture, whereas it's

936
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 1: like twenty thousand languages, so many different cultures, different rules,

937
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 1: different tribes. Like you know, I think people expect you

938
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:10,839
Speaker 1: to be one identity, even within your half Aboriginal or

939
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 1: mixed Aboriginal heritage, and it's you're doing a wonderful job

940
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 1: at I think helping change that dialogue.

941
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 4: Thank you.

942
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's something that we all grapple

943
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 2: with because you know, we are so diverse and we

944
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:28,360
Speaker 2: do have to try to exist in certain structures just

945
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 2: because of how society is taken. And you know, if

946
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:34,720
Speaker 2: we did have more autonomy over the land, then maybe

947
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 2: we could implement more of our traditional kind of customs

948
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 2: and explore health benefits of that. But we're still kind

949
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 2: of in a moment where there is so much friction.

950
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 1: Do you ever get people because your artwork does sometimes

951
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 1: draw on you know, the dot's details and like flowing

952
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 1: kind of like, do you ever get people criticizing that

953
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,919
Speaker 1: it's not dot painting enough? I know that's like such

954
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 1: a weird thing to say, but I imagine the Internet

955
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:01,879
Speaker 1: will come at you with much anything, like just out

956
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,239
Speaker 1: of curiosity, Like do you get criticisms like that?

957
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 2: Yeah? And I think for me, I always say that

958
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 2: I am a contemporary First Nation's artist because you know,

959
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 2: although a lot of it is drawn on my heritage,

960
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 2: it isn't implemented in a way that is traditional art.

961
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:25,800
Speaker 2: And you know you mentioned the dididoo or the udaki

962
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 2: and dot painting, all of those things come from certain

963
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 2: parts of Australia, and you know, not all communities have

964
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:37,360
Speaker 2: the right or the ownership over those things. And being

965
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 2: an East Coast artist, yes there is you know some

966
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 2: dot artwork, it's not necessarily part of our area. So

967
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:48,359
Speaker 2: I do get criticized on one hand that you know

968
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 2: my artwork isn't aboriginal enough, or you know. I remember

969
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 2: being on top of a twenty six meter high sizzlith

970
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 2: painting a mural in the middle of Ipsu. She was

971
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 2: dust Eagleton, who was helping me, and we posted some

972
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 2: things on Facebook, and you know, people were like, she's

973
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 2: not aboriginal, she's too wide, and oh that's not aboriginal.

974
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:15,400
Speaker 2: There's not enough dots or most of the things, and

975
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 2: my favorite was like, oh that's not that good. My

976
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 2: three year old son could do that. I was like, okay,

977
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 2: well I would like your three year old son to

978
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,720
Speaker 2: go spend one thousand dollars getting a sizzle if license,

979
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 2: going up twenty six meters and painting it for thirteen

980
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:31,360
Speaker 2: days straight.

981
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:35,799
Speaker 4: But you know that's my gosh.

982
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were good, lovely things, lovely feedback.

983
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 1: Oh man, it's so funny. I mean, they'll always be like.

984
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 1: That's the thing I'm coming to terms with is you

985
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 1: really cannot always please everyone, And if I did, I

986
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 1: would think, you know, I'm too much of a chameleon.

987
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 1: I obviously don't stand for anything if I'm pleasing everyone

988
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 1: at once.

989
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 3: But it also draws a huge positive.

990
00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 1: Community of followers who love what you do and will

991
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,520
Speaker 1: hail it everything. I mean, you are putting a really contemporary,

992
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:05,719
Speaker 1: beautiful spin that does make Aboriginal art accessible to.

993
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 3: A whole new market who maybe weren't.

994
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 1: As engaged in artwork generally until now, which is also

995
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 1: really exciting. And I think one of the things that

996
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 1: I loved learning about First Nations culture is that idea

997
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 1: of ownership over stories, which I never understood until we

998
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 1: were walking for like literally twelve hours a day and

999
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:27,360
Speaker 1: there'd be parts of the land where our guides would say,

1000
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 1: this is not our family's land. So I can't actually

1001
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 1: tell you anything about where we are, and I'm sort

1002
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:34,839
Speaker 1: of like, mate, I've come all the way out here.

1003
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:36,879
Speaker 3: I want to know the significance of.

1004
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 1: What that creek means, Like tell me you know. And

1005
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 1: it was so interesting to be immersed in just a

1006
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:44,520
Speaker 1: different way of thinking, like you don't need to know

1007
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 1: the answer. You can appreciate the creek without knowing everything

1008
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:49,720
Speaker 1: that's googleable about this place of the earth.

1009
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 3: I can't tell you that.

1010
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 1: It's not mine to tell, and it made me reflect

1011
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 1: like what else isn't mine to tell? How much information

1012
00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 1: do I kind of assume and then regourge take as

1013
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 1: freely available because the information age makes everything available. I

1014
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 1: love that there are women's business stories that men can't

1015
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:10,400
Speaker 1: tell or even know, and men's business stories that they

1016
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:11,400
Speaker 1: could share among each.

1017
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 3: Other but not tell us. It was just such an awakening.

1018
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it takes kind of you know,

1019
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 2: we expect people to just know and do better, but

1020
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 2: for a lot of people, they have no experience with

1021
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:29,720
Speaker 2: first nations people, and or they choose to ignore those experiences.

1022
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 2: But it's you know, the reality is we're all kind

1023
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 2: of here in Australia within a pandemic and we can't

1024
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 2: you know, travel overseas. But the reality is within Australia,

1025
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,800
Speaker 2: we're a country of countries. We're a nation of nations,

1026
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 2: and you know, you could go an hour down the

1027
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 2: road and cross three different countries and have three different

1028
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:53,839
Speaker 2: customs and three different laws. But you know, we don't

1029
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 2: choose to celebrate that uniqueness about Australia. We kind of

1030
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 2: choose to plant it in to this very token idea

1031
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:02,959
Speaker 2: of you know.

1032
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:07,000
Speaker 4: Art and like what art is.

1033
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 2: And the sad reality is actually at the moment, like

1034
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:16,399
Speaker 2: we're choosing to be represented by someone or a nation

1035
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 2: that kind of has chosen to oppress us for a while,

1036
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 2: and the sad reality is we still don't have autonomy

1037
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:25,799
Speaker 2: over our own flag, so like our Aboriginal flag is

1038
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:29,279
Speaker 2: actually owned and controlled by a non Indigenous company and

1039
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 2: they're sending, you know, Aboriginal businesses cease and assist letters

1040
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:37,360
Speaker 2: And for me, like it's things like that that you

1041
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 2: kind of like you kind of I know, have gone

1042
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 2: down a different path here, but it's like that reality

1043
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 2: that there's so much more work to do in that

1044
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 2: and like Clothing the Gap do such a great job

1045
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:52,400
Speaker 2: of advocating for freeing the flag, but it's like you

1046
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 2: see these beautiful things on experiences like what you've gone on,

1047
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 2: and you wish other people could see that beauty, but

1048
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:03,239
Speaker 2: what they see is this narrative of Australia continuing.

1049
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:03,400
Speaker 4: To oppress us.

1050
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:05,920
Speaker 1: And that's why I think spokespeople like yourself are so

1051
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:09,280
Speaker 1: important because it's I think there are so many people

1052
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:12,480
Speaker 1: who are curious enough to absorb the information. It's just

1053
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 1: often not delivered to them in a way that piques

1054
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 1: their interest enough to then.

1055
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:16,920
Speaker 3: Go and look further.

1056
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:21,759
Speaker 1: Whereas when someone like you has a platform like artwork,

1057
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 1: to get people engaged, and then once you've got their attention,

1058
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:27,360
Speaker 1: then you can use it to actually spread a message.

1059
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 1: I think that's what's different about the way that you

1060
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 1: do things because you do hold people's attention. You're not

1061
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:34,200
Speaker 1: just like this is my message, come and listen to me,

1062
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 1: and I'm going to pour things down to your throat.

1063
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 1: It's like, here's my artwork. This is a conversation starter,

1064
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:40,800
Speaker 1: and when you're ready, we can't have a conversation about it,

1065
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 1: which is such a different approach.

1066
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that's like comes back to being

1067
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 2: who I wanted to be when I was younger, Like

1068
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 2: I wanted that safe space and that access to learn

1069
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 2: more about my culture, to engage in it, to express myself.

1070
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:56,799
Speaker 2: And you know, there's still a lot of mob that

1071
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:59,799
Speaker 2: reach out and say thank you for kind of doing

1072
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 2: I do, and that they feel safe and empowered enough

1073
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:05,839
Speaker 2: to then go and explore their own identity through their

1074
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 2: own work. And that's why I love art. It's a

1075
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 2: way for us to all kind of like invest in

1076
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:15,799
Speaker 2: that story in a way that you know, it's kind

1077
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:18,400
Speaker 2: of draws you in and then you can kind of

1078
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 2: feed information, you know, and I think that's The beautiful

1079
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:24,000
Speaker 2: thing about getting our message across is we have so

1080
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 2: many different people telling our story different ways and in

1081
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:31,000
Speaker 2: different kind of emotions and energies. And you know, on

1082
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:34,880
Speaker 2: one hand, we have like rappers singing about you know,

1083
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 2: our culture, and then on the other we have artists,

1084
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 2: we have actors, and I think I've just chosen art

1085
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:43,719
Speaker 2: to be that vehicle for change, and there's so many

1086
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:44,799
Speaker 2: different ways to do that.

1087
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, well you're doing such an incredible job.

1088
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 1: And that leads to the last section really nicely, which

1089
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 1: is the idea that because you are so passionate about

1090
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:55,920
Speaker 1: art and using it as the vehicle and the platform

1091
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:58,800
Speaker 1: that you do one thing. I talk about it a

1092
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:01,040
Speaker 1: lot in the abstract, but actually sat down to ask

1093
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:07,320
Speaker 1: an artist this question. Often, when you find your joy

1094
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:09,879
Speaker 1: and then you turn it into a job that has

1095
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 1: deadlines and expectations, and then often you have to design

1096
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 1: to a brief and then like you know, suddenly there's

1097
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:20,759
Speaker 1: money involved for some people that really impacts on the

1098
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:23,959
Speaker 1: joy part of it for them. And the last section

1099
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 1: is called Plata, which is firstly where we talk about

1100
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 1: stripping back your identity from working you and identifying the

1101
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:31,839
Speaker 1: things that you love to do that aren't your work,

1102
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:33,759
Speaker 1: because even if you love your job, I feel like

1103
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 1: we need distance to stay fresh and like have new ideas. Absolutely,

1104
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:40,319
Speaker 1: But do you ever struggle as an artist with the

1105
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:43,319
Speaker 1: difference between non commissioned work that you just do for

1106
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:48,840
Speaker 1: joy and then having to fit that passion within briefs

1107
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:52,520
Speaker 1: and within deadlines. And for anyone who's feeling compromised in

1108
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 1: their joy by having work expectations attached, what do you recommend? Like,

1109
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 1: I think it's okay for some people to give themselves

1110
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:03,880
Speaker 1: permission to not make it a job. They can do

1111
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:06,160
Speaker 1: it on the side, you know, how did you navigate

1112
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:06,800
Speaker 1: that for yourself?

1113
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:09,759
Speaker 2: I think for me, the benefit is I have a

1114
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:13,759
Speaker 2: few different you know, streams of my business and I

1115
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:18,040
Speaker 2: have the commercial graphic designer artists side of things where

1116
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 2: I do work with clients and I work with you know,

1117
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 2: businesses and corporates to develop an artwork you know, that

1118
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 2: represents them and their values. I also have me as

1119
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 2: a person that can kind of be an advocate for

1120
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 2: things and you know, but I guess one of my

1121
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:37,600
Speaker 2: major outlets became a business, but it is my personal

1122
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 2: works that I do sell as prints, you know, and

1123
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 2: sometimes I go down that that brings me a lot

1124
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 2: of joy that I don't create as prints or as products.

1125
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 2: But I think it's that diversity of what my business

1126
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 2: does that allows me to still have joy. And if

1127
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 2: I'm not feeling one hundred percent myself, then you know,

1128
00:57:56,720 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 2: the public public events as me as an individual kind

1129
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 2: of you know, ana's prominent. Or I take a break

1130
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:07,720
Speaker 2: from working on commercial work and focusing on just creating

1131
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:10,680
Speaker 2: work that makes me feel joy and fills my cup

1132
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 2: and replenishes my energy. But you know, I think, aside

1133
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 2: from art, like just grounding yourself and being out in

1134
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:22,160
Speaker 2: nature and like it can be just a patch of

1135
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 2: sun in your backyard or you know, just putting your

1136
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 2: feet in the sand or the salt water, like those

1137
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 2: sorts of things. I think you just need that diversity

1138
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:35,200
Speaker 2: because diversity gives you different perspectives as well. It gives

1139
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:38,400
Speaker 2: you different viewpoints of how you want to tackle something.

1140
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:42,040
Speaker 2: And you know, when you have that separation, if you're

1141
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:45,080
Speaker 2: getting down by something and you can't crack it, if

1142
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 2: you have that separation, you know where you're in a

1143
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 2: completely different environment. Maybe it is the you know, the

1144
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:54,960
Speaker 2: salt water or the sand or the mountains. You can

1145
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 2: kind of give yourself a bit more time and understand

1146
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:02,120
Speaker 2: if actually it is worth it, if it's actually what's

1147
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:05,200
Speaker 2: tied to your purpose, if it's tied to your values,

1148
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:08,680
Speaker 2: or if you were kind of beating it against a wall,

1149
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:12,000
Speaker 2: Like I think that separation allows you to stay on

1150
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:16,440
Speaker 2: track with your values, and your values I think, ultimately

1151
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:19,520
Speaker 2: are the most important thing about joy. If you're not

1152
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:22,120
Speaker 2: doing things that are tied to your values, and it's conflict,

1153
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 2: and conflict is opposite to joy in my opinion.

1154
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:30,080
Speaker 1: Oh yes, so true, so true, And I think you're right, Like, yeah,

1155
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 1: this is why I say, even if you do love

1156
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 1: your job and you don't feel like you need a break,

1157
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 1: you still need one because that's when you have your breakthroughs.

1158
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:40,800
Speaker 1: Like I can literally look back at all of my

1159
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 1: biggest ideas or AHA moments, and they've never been when

1160
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 1: I've been sitting at a desk trying to push through

1161
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:48,480
Speaker 1: something that I just feel stuck on. It's always when

1162
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:51,160
Speaker 1: I get up and walk away from that. And I'm

1163
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 1: okay with allowing myself to like waste a little bit

1164
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:57,960
Speaker 1: of time that's not necessarily productive, but yeah, it is

1165
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:00,960
Speaker 1: productive because it gives you space to then get that

1166
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 1: kind of fire back, and I love that, you know,

1167
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:08,360
Speaker 1: It's it's the activities for me that make me forget

1168
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 1: what time it is, which means that I've forgotten what

1169
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:12,680
Speaker 1: date it is, which means I've forgotten my schedule, which

1170
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:17,480
Speaker 1: is the most important thing. Is there anything else you do?

1171
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:20,720
Speaker 1: Like are you a Netflix binger? Are you like a

1172
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:24,560
Speaker 1: puzzle person? Or like, yeah, what are your other kind

1173
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:27,040
Speaker 1: of guilty pleasures that you would allow yourself just to

1174
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:27,960
Speaker 1: waste time doing.

1175
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:31,480
Speaker 2: I'm definitely not a puzzle person because I designed a

1176
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 2: puzzle recently and everyone's feedback has been it's so difficult,

1177
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:40,840
Speaker 2: So I haven't actually completed the puzzle that I designed.

1178
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:44,640
Speaker 2: But I'm definitely a Netflix binger. I guess that's what

1179
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:46,440
Speaker 2: I do when I switch off at night. I just

1180
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 2: come in and watch Netflix. After the last season of

1181
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 2: New Girl, actually, oh gosh, I'm going to have to

1182
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:57,800
Speaker 2: binge something else new. But yeah, like just kind of

1183
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 2: separating and living a different reality, I guess to what exists.

1184
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 2: Like psychologists might have a label for that, which isn't

1185
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:08,640
Speaker 2: a very good thing. But I think for me and

1186
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:13,880
Speaker 2: being a First Nations person whose culture is so connected

1187
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:18,280
Speaker 2: to their business, Like it's very difficult to escape the

1188
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:21,880
Speaker 2: reality of the fight that we're fighting. And you know,

1189
01:01:22,160 --> 01:01:25,200
Speaker 2: every day you can open up social media and intend

1190
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:28,880
Speaker 2: not to work but something because of my work being

1191
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:32,720
Speaker 2: so connected to my culture, I'm invested in, you know,

1192
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:34,400
Speaker 2: that fight and that outcome.

1193
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:36,600
Speaker 4: And so for me, it's.

1194
01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 2: Kind of switching off technology for a few moments a

1195
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 2: day and kind of turning on a different technology. No,

1196
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 2: but kind of just like, wow, I'm reflecting on myself now,

1197
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 2: I'm got very bad habits.

1198
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:56,080
Speaker 3: No, they sound like amazing habits.

1199
01:01:57,120 --> 01:02:00,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I think it's just like surrounding yourself with

1200
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:06,040
Speaker 2: people that allow you to feel safe without critiquing every moment,

1201
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:10,360
Speaker 2: but then also surrounding yourself with you No, like mind

1202
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:13,680
Speaker 2: numbing activities where you can just off and be a

1203
01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:17,080
Speaker 2: little bit like floating in air and time.

1204
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:20,720
Speaker 1: Yes, oh my god, it's floating. That's why I like

1205
01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:22,640
Speaker 1: describe them as what makes you forget what time it is,

1206
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:24,720
Speaker 1: because otherwise you're never suspended in time.

1207
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:25,920
Speaker 3: You're always so.

1208
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:28,280
Speaker 1: Aware of what time it is and where that is

1209
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:29,440
Speaker 1: in the schedule of life.

1210
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 3: But like some things that allow you.

1211
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:34,600
Speaker 1: To just be, like where am I where am I.

1212
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:41,120
Speaker 3: I'm like, that's good for the soul. Yes, exactly, absolutely well.

1213
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:44,240
Speaker 1: Just to finish up, second last question is what are

1214
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:47,400
Speaker 1: the three interesting things about you that don't normally come

1215
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:51,760
Speaker 1: up in conversation, like weird party tricks or habits or

1216
01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:53,160
Speaker 1: also with that your dog.

1217
01:02:53,200 --> 01:03:02,320
Speaker 4: Yes off Franklin. Oh my gosh, he's so cute.

1218
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:04,720
Speaker 2: He's got this like little grandpa jacket on at the moment,

1219
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:05,800
Speaker 2: trying to stay warm.

1220
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:09,440
Speaker 4: Three What was the question again.

1221
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:12,040
Speaker 1: It's just like three quirky things about you that don't

1222
01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:15,080
Speaker 1: normally come up in interviews. So like if someone was

1223
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:18,000
Speaker 1: living with you, only they would know the weird.

1224
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:18,720
Speaker 3: Like habits you have.

1225
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:22,120
Speaker 1: It's like just to break down the you know, show

1226
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:23,280
Speaker 1: the human side of people.

1227
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:27,040
Speaker 3: Do you snow? Are you allergic to things?

1228
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:34,120
Speaker 2: I am an absolute mess of human, But I'm putting

1229
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:36,160
Speaker 2: it down to the fact that I'm currently at mom

1230
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:40,240
Speaker 2: and Dad's house because I'm like building my house, but

1231
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:43,160
Speaker 2: i had planed to like build my business at the

1232
01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:47,680
Speaker 2: same time that I'd move into my house and then restrictions,

1233
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:50,720
Speaker 2: so I'm like, God, I'm so messy.

1234
01:03:50,960 --> 01:03:52,560
Speaker 3: You're a creative, You're allowed.

1235
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:57,520
Speaker 2: I'm going to use that as an excuse, but like

1236
01:03:57,560 --> 01:04:00,480
Speaker 2: it gets to the point where I'm like I'm drownding

1237
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:02,800
Speaker 2: and mess and I'm like, this is not conducive to

1238
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:07,760
Speaker 2: like creative energy. So I'm definitely a messy person, which

1239
01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:15,400
Speaker 2: is not great. I am not allergic to anything, but

1240
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:20,080
Speaker 2: I do suffer crippling migraines, which is an thing to mention.

1241
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:26,280
Speaker 2: I get like migrain areas where like basically just lose

1242
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:29,280
Speaker 2: my vision. I have to go into a dark room.

1243
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:31,880
Speaker 2: Yeah that can be a good time.

1244
01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:35,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, wow, up, babe.

1245
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:40,200
Speaker 4: Back to the nay section.

1246
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:45,760
Speaker 1: We've just regressed a whole section. What percentage of people

1247
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:47,160
Speaker 1: call you Sarah?

1248
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:48,600
Speaker 4: Oh a lot.

1249
01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 2: I have at least ten emails in my inbox right

1250
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:55,360
Speaker 2: now that's like hey Sarah, And I'm like it's really

1251
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:59,000
Speaker 2: bad because like all of my branding is Sarah obviously

1252
01:04:59,080 --> 01:05:03,840
Speaker 2: like SA double but then it just cut out, is

1253
01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:06,800
Speaker 2: like s A double A A. But then people will

1254
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:09,400
Speaker 2: still email me and be like hey Sarah s A

1255
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:13,360
Speaker 2: R A H. And I'm like, why did I do

1256
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:14,400
Speaker 2: this to myself?

1257
01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:18,400
Speaker 1: I'm like, at least if you're going to call you Sarah,

1258
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:19,080
Speaker 1: spell at.

1259
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:21,040
Speaker 4: S A R R exactly.

1260
01:05:21,880 --> 01:05:24,400
Speaker 2: So yeah, I guess basically, that's really good for someone

1261
01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:27,760
Speaker 2: who studied branding as a career and can't brand themselves.

1262
01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:33,440
Speaker 3: Do as I say, not what I do.

1263
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:35,440
Speaker 4: Exactly.

1264
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:39,040
Speaker 1: And on that note, other than that quote, what is

1265
01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:40,520
Speaker 1: your actual favorite quote?

1266
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:40,960
Speaker 2: Oh?

1267
01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:41,480
Speaker 4: Okay?

1268
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:44,160
Speaker 2: So when Jen sent me through this question, I was like,

1269
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:45,640
Speaker 2: what is my favorite quote?

1270
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:48,760
Speaker 4: And I have two.

1271
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:54,680
Speaker 2: One is a little bit naughty, amazing, like.

1272
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:56,600
Speaker 4: A swearing rule on this podcast.

1273
01:05:56,680 --> 01:05:57,800
Speaker 3: Absolutely not okay.

1274
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:02,400
Speaker 2: So one of my aunties, aunties who had the best time,

1275
01:06:02,440 --> 01:06:05,080
Speaker 2: I still have one of her fur jackets. She used

1276
01:06:05,120 --> 01:06:08,520
Speaker 2: to say fuck him in and fuck him out, And

1277
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:14,880
Speaker 2: I don't exactly know what she meant by that, but

1278
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:16,959
Speaker 2: I feel like it's a quote that you can kind

1279
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:20,520
Speaker 2: of use any situation and justify the outcome that you want.

1280
01:06:20,680 --> 01:06:24,200
Speaker 4: So like I do that one as it go to

1281
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:27,840
Speaker 4: a lot of the time. That's great.

1282
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:29,680
Speaker 1: It's just like no one knows what it means, but

1283
01:06:29,720 --> 01:06:31,080
Speaker 1: you can use it any time.

1284
01:06:32,040 --> 01:06:34,840
Speaker 4: And why am I drinking? You never know?

1285
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:37,760
Speaker 3: Who could say? Bit of both.

1286
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:40,960
Speaker 2: The other one, which is probably more serious is and

1287
01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:43,640
Speaker 2: one that I kind of had to come to terms

1288
01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:46,120
Speaker 2: with a while is if you're not going to ask

1289
01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:50,080
Speaker 2: someone for advice, then don't be so open or overthink

1290
01:06:50,120 --> 01:06:52,600
Speaker 2: their criticism.

1291
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:53,520
Speaker 3: I love that.

1292
01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:55,440
Speaker 2: I feel like I kind of touched on that earlier

1293
01:06:55,480 --> 01:06:57,760
Speaker 2: in the podcast, but yeah, I feel like it's so

1294
01:06:57,920 --> 01:07:01,640
Speaker 2: relevant to kind of stay on track to understand who

1295
01:07:01,760 --> 01:07:05,400
Speaker 2: has agency over what you're putting out and who does it.

1296
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:06,680
Speaker 3: Oh, totally.

1297
01:07:06,720 --> 01:07:09,720
Speaker 1: Another one I like on that is don't ask advice

1298
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:12,000
Speaker 1: from people who don't have to suffer the consequences, Like

1299
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:14,920
Speaker 1: everyone has an opinion when it doesn't actually affect them.

1300
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:18,880
Speaker 2: Which way you decide, yes, exactly, And I think that's

1301
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:23,160
Speaker 2: yeah about reclaiming our energy and our agency and spaces

1302
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:24,280
Speaker 2: both of them.

1303
01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:28,880
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Oh my gosh, you are so wise and wonderful.

1304
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:31,920
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sharing and jumping on the podcast.

1305
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:34,960
Speaker 1: It's been such a pleasure for having me. And I'll

1306
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:37,520
Speaker 1: make sure to include links to all your fabulous work

1307
01:07:37,640 --> 01:07:39,640
Speaker 1: and everything you do in the show notes.

1308
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:41,280
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, lovely thanks sir.

1309
01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:45,200
Speaker 1: Every single time I see one of Rachel's works, I smile.

1310
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:48,360
Speaker 1: The colors and shapes just bring me so much joy.

1311
01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:51,320
Speaker 1: Please go and check out her work her art. Her

1312
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:56,200
Speaker 1: instagram is at Saar dot Ra two underscores. Although do

1313
01:07:56,280 --> 01:07:59,840
Speaker 1: not be mistaken, her name is not Sarah or Sarah

1314
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:02,440
Speaker 1: and give her some love and a shout out. If

1315
01:08:02,440 --> 01:08:04,200
Speaker 1: you enjoyed this episode as much.

1316
01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:04,680
Speaker 3: As I did.

1317
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:08,760
Speaker 1: I'll also include links to our exciting Matrix ambassadorship and

1318
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:12,160
Speaker 1: all the wonderful things they're doing for beauty, diversity and inclusion.

1319
01:08:12,680 --> 01:08:15,840
Speaker 1: Very very proud to be on board alongside rach, Jess

1320
01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:19,160
Speaker 1: Vanderalay and AJ Clementine. I hope you guys are all

1321
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:30,320
Speaker 1: otherwise having a wonderful week and are seizing your yay