1
00:00:08,234 --> 00:00:10,953
Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

2
00:00:16,233 --> 00:00:19,154
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Mom and Mia out Loud. It's

3
00:00:19,154 --> 00:00:21,994
Speaker 2: what women are actually talking about on Monday, the second

4
00:00:21,994 --> 00:00:24,074
Speaker 2: of March. I'm Holly wayIn Wright.

5
00:00:23,954 --> 00:00:26,714
Speaker 1: I'm Claire Stevens, and I'm Amelia Lester.

6
00:00:27,234 --> 00:00:29,834
Speaker 2: There is a lot going on in the world today,

7
00:00:29,874 --> 00:00:31,274
Speaker 2: and we are going to get to most of it.

8
00:00:31,394 --> 00:00:32,634
Speaker 2: But what has made our agenda?

9
00:00:32,754 --> 00:00:34,994
Speaker 3: Claire Stevens, what is phone nostalgia?

10
00:00:35,193 --> 00:00:37,873
Speaker 4: And why does a certain show have us yearning for

11
00:00:37,954 --> 00:00:41,074
Speaker 4: a pre phone world even if we've never known one?

12
00:00:41,354 --> 00:00:45,473
Speaker 1: And Beatrice and Eu Genie Andrew Mount Batton Windsor's children

13
00:00:45,754 --> 00:00:49,193
Speaker 1: have been uninvited from a very important event, and I'm

14
00:00:49,273 --> 00:00:50,593
Speaker 1: dying to know what Holly thinks.

15
00:00:51,553 --> 00:00:54,594
Speaker 2: Look, before we get into the big serious stuff, I

16
00:00:54,634 --> 00:00:58,794
Speaker 2: have to say I spent the weekend watching men dancing,

17
00:00:59,634 --> 00:01:02,234
Speaker 2: and there are many opportunities to do this around pop culture.

18
00:01:02,234 --> 00:01:04,594
Speaker 2: This weekend there was Marley Garra, of course, very famous

19
00:01:04,594 --> 00:01:08,274
Speaker 2: for men dancing. I went to the Bad Bunny concert

20
00:01:08,394 --> 00:01:11,994
Speaker 2: in Sydney with Ruth, Harry p and some other out

21
00:01:11,994 --> 00:01:14,674
Speaker 2: Loud crew. You were all invited. You couldn't come, No,

22
00:01:14,914 --> 00:01:19,954
Speaker 2: I know, I'm sorry, but it was so wonderful. I

23
00:01:20,074 --> 00:01:25,474
Speaker 2: can barely find the words. But watching Bad Bunny dancing Benito,

24
00:01:25,514 --> 00:01:27,394
Speaker 2: as those of us who know him well call him,

25
00:01:27,834 --> 00:01:30,994
Speaker 2: and then coming home and seeing Harry Styles dancing at

26
00:01:30,994 --> 00:01:35,234
Speaker 2: the Brits, I was like, this feels like men expressing

27
00:01:35,314 --> 00:01:37,274
Speaker 2: joy in this way and moving in this like it

28
00:01:37,434 --> 00:01:40,194
Speaker 2: just feels like a positivity thing that we need.

29
00:01:40,314 --> 00:01:41,154
Speaker 3: I think we need it.

30
00:01:41,234 --> 00:01:44,034
Speaker 4: I remember at school, you know how they were like

31
00:01:44,114 --> 00:01:47,434
Speaker 4: school assemblies. They get the people who could dance to

32
00:01:47,474 --> 00:01:49,834
Speaker 4: do a dance. It was the highlight of my life

33
00:01:49,954 --> 00:01:53,754
Speaker 4: because I can't dance, and I find it so beautiful

34
00:01:53,994 --> 00:01:56,794
Speaker 4: to see people who can. Like just seeing that Harry

35
00:01:56,794 --> 00:02:00,754
Speaker 4: Styles performance at the brit Awards, he just he's androgynousts

36
00:02:00,754 --> 00:02:02,154
Speaker 4: and he's sexy and he.

37
00:02:02,274 --> 00:02:04,554
Speaker 2: Just the choreography is so cool. If you haven't seen

38
00:02:04,554 --> 00:02:06,314
Speaker 2: it out loud as you can see it on YouTube.

39
00:02:06,674 --> 00:02:08,874
Speaker 2: If you're having a bad day, it will perk you

40
00:02:08,954 --> 00:02:09,834
Speaker 2: right up. Have you watched it?

41
00:02:10,194 --> 00:02:12,474
Speaker 1: I haven't. What I want to know is did Bad

42
00:02:12,474 --> 00:02:14,114
Speaker 1: Bunny just dance the whole time?

43
00:02:14,633 --> 00:02:17,114
Speaker 2: So Bad Bunny. First of all, I met quite a

44
00:02:17,154 --> 00:02:19,354
Speaker 2: few out louders at Bad Bunny, and so high to

45
00:02:19,474 --> 00:02:21,914
Speaker 2: all of you excellent out louders, including Beck and her

46
00:02:21,994 --> 00:02:24,874
Speaker 2: husband Darryl. But it was at a big arena in Sydney.

47
00:02:24,954 --> 00:02:27,954
Speaker 2: There are two stages there, right, he has a big

48
00:02:27,954 --> 00:02:29,754
Speaker 2: stage at the back, and he comes out first and

49
00:02:29,794 --> 00:02:33,834
Speaker 2: does an hour out there with trumpets and drums and

50
00:02:33,874 --> 00:02:35,994
Speaker 2: the whole thing. And he's wearing a suit and he's

51
00:02:35,994 --> 00:02:38,514
Speaker 2: given it all this and he's just so great and

52
00:02:38,554 --> 00:02:41,754
Speaker 2: he plays lots of the bangers. And then he comes

53
00:02:41,794 --> 00:02:43,674
Speaker 2: to what's called the casino, which is like a little

54
00:02:43,834 --> 00:02:45,834
Speaker 2: house that he has at every one of his shows.

55
00:02:45,834 --> 00:02:47,554
Speaker 2: He had it at the super Bowl, he had it

56
00:02:47,594 --> 00:02:50,914
Speaker 2: at his big residency in Puerto Rico. And he gets

57
00:02:50,954 --> 00:02:52,714
Speaker 2: up and he dances on the roof in shorts and

58
00:02:52,754 --> 00:02:53,274
Speaker 2: a T shirt.

59
00:02:53,394 --> 00:02:54,594
Speaker 3: Okay for shorts.

60
00:02:54,754 --> 00:02:57,714
Speaker 2: Shorts. Look, it's to be honest, it's not all about

61
00:02:57,714 --> 00:03:00,514
Speaker 2: the perv. It's not. It was just but there's something

62
00:03:00,714 --> 00:03:03,994
Speaker 2: so I don't know, I'm finding I'm really into music.

63
00:03:03,994 --> 00:03:06,474
Speaker 2: I'm leaning into music really hard. The heart of the

64
00:03:06,514 --> 00:03:09,834
Speaker 2: world get I think, and the collective joy of that

65
00:03:09,954 --> 00:03:12,914
Speaker 2: audience and bad Bunny, I mean there was a bit

66
00:03:12,954 --> 00:03:15,434
Speaker 2: of grinding with hot ladies like that did happen, and

67
00:03:15,554 --> 00:03:19,154
Speaker 2: Mia would not have liked that, but most of it

68
00:03:19,394 --> 00:03:23,474
Speaker 2: he was pretty much solo criting, but not one word

69
00:03:23,474 --> 00:03:26,634
Speaker 2: of English. The whole show is in Spanish. The crowd

70
00:03:26,714 --> 00:03:30,674
Speaker 2: knew all the words. He was obviously overwhelmed by how

71
00:03:30,754 --> 00:03:32,874
Speaker 2: much passion there was for him in Sydney, too, sold

72
00:03:32,914 --> 00:03:35,194
Speaker 2: out shows like that flags from all over the world,

73
00:03:35,794 --> 00:03:38,234
Speaker 2: and the fact that I don't speak Spanish so I

74
00:03:38,234 --> 00:03:40,394
Speaker 2: couldn't understand why then did not matter even a bit.

75
00:03:40,794 --> 00:03:43,754
Speaker 2: The vibes were high. But I don't know. I feel like,

76
00:03:43,874 --> 00:03:46,394
Speaker 2: with the exception of boy bands, which I know obviously

77
00:03:46,474 --> 00:03:49,114
Speaker 2: is the origin story of Harry Styles, they used to

78
00:03:49,114 --> 00:03:53,714
Speaker 2: be a bit of sneering about guys hot manly guys dancing.

79
00:03:53,794 --> 00:03:56,754
Speaker 2: It was like, you know, that's not what cool people do.

80
00:03:56,834 --> 00:03:59,434
Speaker 2: And I just love that that's been turned on its head.

81
00:03:59,474 --> 00:04:02,074
Speaker 1: Can I ask you to be honest and say whether

82
00:04:02,154 --> 00:04:04,634
Speaker 1: you now have dueling go on your phone? And I'm

83
00:04:04,674 --> 00:04:06,234
Speaker 1: learning signs Charlie Wainwright.

84
00:04:08,754 --> 00:04:10,634
Speaker 2: I was trying to learn a lot of the words

85
00:04:10,714 --> 00:04:12,994
Speaker 2: to my favorite bad Body songs before the show. And

86
00:04:13,234 --> 00:04:15,314
Speaker 2: this is why you need to learn languages when you're young,

87
00:04:15,314 --> 00:04:17,674
Speaker 2: because when you're older and you know you've got a

88
00:04:17,674 --> 00:04:19,754
Speaker 2: bit of the brain fog. You think you've got it,

89
00:04:19,954 --> 00:04:22,074
Speaker 2: and then it's fallen out of your ear and you're

90
00:04:22,113 --> 00:04:24,354
Speaker 2: like damn it, and the owl from Dueling Are just

91
00:04:24,393 --> 00:04:28,833
Speaker 2: is shouting at you again anyway, frivolous, dancing out of

92
00:04:28,834 --> 00:04:31,833
Speaker 2: the way. When I looked up from my bad Bunny algorithm,

93
00:04:32,034 --> 00:04:34,474
Speaker 2: there was no getting around the fact that the world

94
00:04:34,513 --> 00:04:38,914
Speaker 2: is dealing with some very serious news. This weekend. America

95
00:04:38,953 --> 00:04:42,234
Speaker 2: and Israel had launched an attack on Iran duel operations.

96
00:04:42,313 --> 00:04:45,994
Speaker 2: America's called Epic Fury and Israel's called Roaring Lion, hit

97
00:04:46,034 --> 00:04:50,594
Speaker 2: more than five hundred targets across Iran and killed Iran's

98
00:04:50,633 --> 00:04:54,073
Speaker 2: Supreme leader, Ayatollah Kameney, who has ruled the country since

99
00:04:54,154 --> 00:04:58,113
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty nine. Now, thank god Amelia Lester is here

100
00:04:58,154 --> 00:05:01,873
Speaker 2: today because Amelia's other job, as regular outloud as well know,

101
00:05:02,553 --> 00:05:06,113
Speaker 2: is an editor at Foreign Policy Magazine, And you're very

102
00:05:06,193 --> 00:05:09,393
Speaker 2: well equipped to answer all our questions about this. So

103
00:05:09,553 --> 00:05:12,873
Speaker 2: my first one is how are we meant to feel

104
00:05:12,993 --> 00:05:16,393
Speaker 2: about what happened on Saturday night? Because I'm seeing very

105
00:05:16,393 --> 00:05:18,633
Speaker 2: different opinions across the internet.

106
00:05:19,073 --> 00:05:21,794
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it depends who you are. Even within Australia,

107
00:05:22,313 --> 00:05:25,393
Speaker 1: there's not going to be agreement between people. You've got

108
00:05:25,393 --> 00:05:28,234
Speaker 1: the PM on one hand coming out and saying, as

109
00:05:28,313 --> 00:05:31,274
Speaker 1: long as this is maybe stopping Iran from developing a

110
00:05:31,354 --> 00:05:33,993
Speaker 1: nuclear weapon, that's a good thing, and we support it.

111
00:05:34,474 --> 00:05:37,594
Speaker 1: On the other hand, you've got lots of people around

112
00:05:37,633 --> 00:05:40,594
Speaker 1: the world who are alarmed about the US and Israel

113
00:05:40,633 --> 00:05:44,153
Speaker 1: deciding to do this without the UN, without anyone else involved,

114
00:05:44,234 --> 00:05:46,873
Speaker 1: and in the US case, without even the approval of Congress,

115
00:05:47,433 --> 00:05:49,833
Speaker 1: and they say, look, we're worried about the loss of life,

116
00:05:49,993 --> 00:05:52,274
Speaker 1: we're worried about the lack of follow through from the bombing,

117
00:05:52,313 --> 00:05:54,433
Speaker 1: and we're worried that you guys are doing this without

118
00:05:54,433 --> 00:05:57,794
Speaker 1: bringing anyone else into the fold. And even within a run,

119
00:05:57,834 --> 00:06:00,753
Speaker 1: you've got disagreement because you've got some people who are

120
00:06:00,753 --> 00:06:03,393
Speaker 1: celebrating the death of the Supreme Leader. They're dancing in

121
00:06:03,433 --> 00:06:06,553
Speaker 1: the streets. There are eighty five thousand Iranian Australians, and

122
00:06:06,594 --> 00:06:08,674
Speaker 1: I would not resumed to speak for any of them,

123
00:06:08,674 --> 00:06:11,273
Speaker 1: but I doubt that they agree on this either, because

124
00:06:11,633 --> 00:06:13,913
Speaker 1: some of them will be happy that a dictator is dead,

125
00:06:14,274 --> 00:06:16,393
Speaker 1: and some of them will be mourning the loss of

126
00:06:16,433 --> 00:06:20,273
Speaker 1: family members, including children. And there are some people again

127
00:06:20,313 --> 00:06:23,033
Speaker 1: who maybe even supported the regime. This was not just

128
00:06:23,154 --> 00:06:26,273
Speaker 1: one guy ruling over a country of ninety million people.

129
00:06:26,433 --> 00:06:28,674
Speaker 1: There were very much two camps with in Iran.

130
00:06:29,354 --> 00:06:32,993
Speaker 2: When you say that the US and Israel acted sort

131
00:06:33,034 --> 00:06:37,433
Speaker 2: of unilaterally on this, would the usual procedure be that

132
00:06:37,433 --> 00:06:39,594
Speaker 2: they would have been an international agreement that this was

133
00:06:39,633 --> 00:06:40,193
Speaker 2: going to happen.

134
00:06:40,594 --> 00:06:43,593
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're not meant to just start bombing another country.

135
00:06:43,633 --> 00:06:46,713
Speaker 1: International law kind of says that you need to be

136
00:06:46,794 --> 00:06:49,673
Speaker 1: under imminent threat from that country to even think about

137
00:06:49,714 --> 00:06:53,034
Speaker 1: doing it, and there's no evidence that the US certainly

138
00:06:53,154 --> 00:06:55,873
Speaker 1: was under any kind of imminent threat from Iran. You

139
00:06:55,914 --> 00:06:59,234
Speaker 1: remember the US bombed Duran last year in June, and

140
00:06:59,313 --> 00:07:02,674
Speaker 1: they said that they basically destroyed Iran's nuclear program. So

141
00:07:02,753 --> 00:07:05,113
Speaker 1: then for Trump to turn around this week and say

142
00:07:05,154 --> 00:07:07,113
Speaker 1: that he's doing it because he's worried about a run

143
00:07:07,154 --> 00:07:10,354
Speaker 1: aren't bombing the US? That doesn't make a lot of sense.

144
00:07:10,234 --> 00:07:13,074
Speaker 4: And was not only a couple of days before that

145
00:07:13,154 --> 00:07:18,834
Speaker 4: Iran had kind of agreed to stop making the nuclear weapons.

146
00:07:18,874 --> 00:07:22,434
Speaker 4: Like it seemed like an empty promise because of what

147
00:07:22,554 --> 00:07:27,114
Speaker 4: has happened historically. But if you're kind of in those

148
00:07:27,154 --> 00:07:30,793
Speaker 4: negotiations and a country says that they're going to stop

149
00:07:30,834 --> 00:07:33,794
Speaker 4: doing something. Doesn't it seem a bit odd to bomb them?

150
00:07:33,834 --> 00:07:34,954
Speaker 3: A couple of days later.

151
00:07:34,834 --> 00:07:38,434
Speaker 1: They were definitely in negotiations. The issue was that the

152
00:07:38,554 --> 00:07:41,394
Speaker 1: US and Iran had not been able to agree on

153
00:07:41,474 --> 00:07:44,953
Speaker 1: whether or not Iran was able to have nuclear materials.

154
00:07:45,314 --> 00:07:48,314
Speaker 1: So I guess from Trump's perspective, He's going to say,

155
00:07:48,434 --> 00:07:51,674
Speaker 1: we tried talking to you, we couldn't come to an agreement,

156
00:07:51,994 --> 00:07:54,314
Speaker 1: so that's why we had to start bombing you. The

157
00:07:54,434 --> 00:07:57,154
Speaker 1: other thing that Trump's been saying is that he wants

158
00:07:57,234 --> 00:08:00,074
Speaker 1: regime change. It's not just about the nuclear weapons. He

159
00:08:00,114 --> 00:08:03,634
Speaker 1: wants to get rid of this theocratic, autocratic regime that's

160
00:08:03,634 --> 00:08:06,033
Speaker 1: been in charge in Iran. And the killing of the

161
00:08:06,074 --> 00:08:09,754
Speaker 1: Supreme Leader was so as stepped towards that, But he

162
00:08:09,834 --> 00:08:11,994
Speaker 1: said that it's up to the Iranian people to now

163
00:08:12,074 --> 00:08:14,994
Speaker 1: take that assassination and kind of run with it and

164
00:08:15,034 --> 00:08:17,153
Speaker 1: depose this regime once and for all.

165
00:08:17,714 --> 00:08:20,593
Speaker 2: I saw in Trump's address after it, when he was

166
00:08:20,594 --> 00:08:24,953
Speaker 2: wearing his USA baseball cap. Yeah, he basically said, and

167
00:08:24,994 --> 00:08:29,794
Speaker 2: I paraphrase, that lots of presidents before him wanted to

168
00:08:29,834 --> 00:08:32,914
Speaker 2: do what he's done. So you know, obviously this regime

169
00:08:32,953 --> 00:08:34,914
Speaker 2: has been in place in around for a very long time.

170
00:08:35,274 --> 00:08:37,674
Speaker 2: We know that after the recent protest there earlier this year,

171
00:08:37,714 --> 00:08:40,114
Speaker 2: there was a brutal reaction to that from the regime.

172
00:08:40,554 --> 00:08:43,234
Speaker 2: And Trump said, loads of presidents have wanted to do this,

173
00:08:43,314 --> 00:08:45,434
Speaker 2: but basically, I'm the only one who's had the balls.

174
00:08:46,074 --> 00:08:48,274
Speaker 2: Why hasn't anybody else done it?

175
00:08:48,954 --> 00:08:52,674
Speaker 1: Well, they haven't done it because there's no real reason

176
00:08:52,954 --> 00:08:55,994
Speaker 1: to do it. So Iran and the US made an

177
00:08:56,034 --> 00:08:59,674
Speaker 1: agreement back in the Obama era that basically Iran was

178
00:08:59,714 --> 00:09:02,154
Speaker 1: not going to build a nuclear weapon. And this was

179
00:09:02,194 --> 00:09:04,874
Speaker 1: a much celebrated agreement at the time because the whole

180
00:09:04,874 --> 00:09:07,954
Speaker 1: world had been very worried about this rogue and its

181
00:09:08,314 --> 00:09:10,674
Speaker 1: desire to build a weapon. But they came together and

182
00:09:10,714 --> 00:09:13,194
Speaker 1: they said, Okay, we're not going to build one, and

183
00:09:13,234 --> 00:09:15,914
Speaker 1: in return, the US did things like lift sanctions and

184
00:09:16,194 --> 00:09:20,714
Speaker 1: stop putting sort of punishment economic punishments on Iran. Trump

185
00:09:20,834 --> 00:09:24,154
Speaker 1: withdrew from that agreement even though Iran was following all

186
00:09:24,194 --> 00:09:27,274
Speaker 1: the rules. He withdrew from it himself in twenty nineteen.

187
00:09:27,994 --> 00:09:30,834
Speaker 1: And now he turns around and he says, Iran, why

188
00:09:30,914 --> 00:09:34,593
Speaker 1: aren't you following my rules? Why aren't you stopping this process.

189
00:09:34,714 --> 00:09:38,274
Speaker 1: And from Iran's perspective, you got to say they were

190
00:09:38,274 --> 00:09:41,794
Speaker 1: trying to follow the rules. But then Trump withdrew. So

191
00:09:42,714 --> 00:09:45,194
Speaker 1: to answer the question of why other presidents didn't do

192
00:09:45,274 --> 00:09:47,514
Speaker 1: it, it's because they would have preferred to come to the

193
00:09:47,554 --> 00:09:51,314
Speaker 1: negotiating table and try and hash it out. And yeah,

194
00:09:51,314 --> 00:09:53,594
Speaker 1: that might take a long time, but that was kind

195
00:09:53,594 --> 00:09:54,833
Speaker 1: of where they were at on it.

196
00:09:55,154 --> 00:09:59,034
Speaker 3: And why did Trump choose to do it over the weekend?

197
00:09:59,274 --> 00:10:02,194
Speaker 4: Like what's significant about I mean, obviously, as we said,

198
00:10:02,234 --> 00:10:07,994
Speaker 4: they were in negotiations. What happened that triggered this very

199
00:10:08,234 --> 00:10:09,594
Speaker 4: very serious response.

200
00:10:09,874 --> 00:10:12,674
Speaker 1: Well, one thing I want to make absolutely clear with you,

201
00:10:12,754 --> 00:10:14,994
Speaker 1: Claire is that it had nothing to do with the

202
00:10:14,994 --> 00:10:18,674
Speaker 1: Epstein files, So just banish that from your mind. From

203
00:10:18,674 --> 00:10:21,354
Speaker 1: Trump's perspective, here's what he would say to you. He

204
00:10:21,394 --> 00:10:23,954
Speaker 1: would say that there were lots of protests in Iran

205
00:10:24,074 --> 00:10:27,154
Speaker 1: in January, lots and lots of protests. People were very

206
00:10:27,274 --> 00:10:31,874
Speaker 1: unhappy with this murderous dictatorial regime. Up to thirty thousand

207
00:10:31,874 --> 00:10:37,474
Speaker 1: protesters were killed in these protests. Awful. The regime itself

208
00:10:37,554 --> 00:10:40,074
Speaker 1: was exposed as kind of weak because there were lots

209
00:10:40,194 --> 00:10:42,594
Speaker 1: thousands of people in the streets saying we hate you,

210
00:10:42,794 --> 00:10:44,874
Speaker 1: we want this to end. This was a three plus

211
00:10:44,914 --> 00:10:49,194
Speaker 1: decade dictatorship that thousands of people were using their bodies

212
00:10:49,194 --> 00:10:52,594
Speaker 1: to protest against. So from Tranp's perspective, he's like, this

213
00:10:52,674 --> 00:10:54,994
Speaker 1: seems like a pretty good time to try and get

214
00:10:55,074 --> 00:10:57,954
Speaker 1: rid of this murderous regime once and for all. And

215
00:10:57,994 --> 00:11:00,474
Speaker 1: I'm going to go in while they're weak, while they're down,

216
00:11:00,834 --> 00:11:02,354
Speaker 1: and try and get rid of them. That is, I

217
00:11:02,354 --> 00:11:03,794
Speaker 1: think what he would say to you. I think that's

218
00:11:03,834 --> 00:11:07,314
Speaker 1: a fair kind of paraphrase of how he would justify

219
00:11:07,394 --> 00:11:09,834
Speaker 1: this action. The fact that they were in the middle

220
00:11:09,874 --> 00:11:14,154
Speaker 1: of negotiations over the nuclear weapons, Yeah, that's kind of unfortunate,

221
00:11:14,194 --> 00:11:16,074
Speaker 1: But I think from Trance's perspective, he thought it was

222
00:11:16,074 --> 00:11:17,514
Speaker 1: strategically the right time.

223
00:11:17,794 --> 00:11:21,074
Speaker 2: I thought that the Republicans and the Magas in particular

224
00:11:21,314 --> 00:11:25,634
Speaker 2: were very keen on America not getting involved in foreign conflicts.

225
00:11:25,674 --> 00:11:27,474
Speaker 2: I thought that was one of their main things. They

226
00:11:27,474 --> 00:11:30,434
Speaker 2: were always winging that Biden and Obama before him and

227
00:11:30,514 --> 00:11:34,274
Speaker 2: all had sent too many Americans off to foreign wars

228
00:11:34,274 --> 00:11:36,674
Speaker 2: that didn't have anything to do with that, and Republican presidents,

229
00:11:36,674 --> 00:11:41,714
Speaker 2: of course, so does this escalation of conflict that America

230
00:11:41,794 --> 00:11:45,234
Speaker 2: is involved in. Isn't that contradictory to what his base

231
00:11:45,274 --> 00:11:45,794
Speaker 2: would want?

232
00:11:46,074 --> 00:11:48,674
Speaker 1: Yes, it is, and it's unclear how his base is

233
00:11:48,674 --> 00:11:50,714
Speaker 1: going to react to it. Remember Marjorie Taylor Green, we

234
00:11:50,794 --> 00:11:52,674
Speaker 1: talked about her before in the show. She was kind

235
00:11:52,714 --> 00:11:55,154
Speaker 1: of a leading Q A non person who helped Trump

236
00:11:55,154 --> 00:11:58,034
Speaker 1: get elected and then was elected herself to Congress. She

237
00:11:58,234 --> 00:12:00,474
Speaker 1: has come out and said that she's disgusted by this.

238
00:12:01,074 --> 00:12:03,994
Speaker 1: Lots of sort of maga base people have said this

239
00:12:04,034 --> 00:12:05,994
Speaker 1: is not what they voted for. In fact, Trump kind

240
00:12:06,034 --> 00:12:08,234
Speaker 1: of came to power into one sixteen saying he was

241
00:12:08,274 --> 00:12:11,314
Speaker 1: going to end the forever wars in Iraq in Afghanistan,

242
00:12:11,354 --> 00:12:13,154
Speaker 1: and in fact he did take steps to do so.

243
00:12:13,874 --> 00:12:16,394
Speaker 1: He even talked about how he thought George W. Bush

244
00:12:16,434 --> 00:12:18,434
Speaker 1: made a huge mistake all those years ago when he

245
00:12:18,474 --> 00:12:21,234
Speaker 1: went into Iraq and tried to topple Saddam Hussein and

246
00:12:21,274 --> 00:12:24,074
Speaker 1: then ended up doing that. So I think it's really weird,

247
00:12:24,274 --> 00:12:27,954
Speaker 1: and he's completely changed his position over the course of

248
00:12:27,994 --> 00:12:31,194
Speaker 1: these two presidencies. Look, I think part of it is

249
00:12:31,194 --> 00:12:34,914
Speaker 1: that he's seventy nine. He's kind of impatient. He does

250
00:12:34,994 --> 00:12:37,834
Speaker 1: have this naive view and I'm always trying to get

251
00:12:37,834 --> 00:12:39,754
Speaker 1: inside his head. I'm trying to present to you what

252
00:12:39,874 --> 00:12:41,674
Speaker 1: he would say if he was sitting with us. I

253
00:12:41,714 --> 00:12:44,914
Speaker 1: think his view is I want peace. I want to

254
00:12:44,954 --> 00:12:47,834
Speaker 1: help people who are living under regimes that are treating

255
00:12:47,874 --> 00:12:51,074
Speaker 1: them cruelly and treating them with violence. So I'm going

256
00:12:51,154 --> 00:12:52,674
Speaker 1: to do what I can with the might of the

257
00:12:52,754 --> 00:12:55,833
Speaker 1: US military to get rid of these regimes for you. Now,

258
00:12:55,874 --> 00:12:59,074
Speaker 1: the problem is he doesn't think much beyond getting rid

259
00:12:59,074 --> 00:13:01,994
Speaker 1: of the regime. This is exactly what happened in Venezuela too.

260
00:13:02,074 --> 00:13:04,674
Speaker 1: He got rid of Nicholas Maduro, who was the president,

261
00:13:04,714 --> 00:13:06,594
Speaker 1: but then he kind of said, I've lost interest in you.

262
00:13:06,634 --> 00:13:09,114
Speaker 1: Now I'm moving on, and I suspect the same thing's

263
00:13:09,114 --> 00:13:11,354
Speaker 1: going to happen with Iran. He said that he doesn't

264
00:13:11,354 --> 00:13:13,434
Speaker 1: want to send any ground troops in. This is just

265
00:13:13,514 --> 00:13:16,354
Speaker 1: a campaign that's taking place in the air. It's very

266
00:13:16,434 --> 00:13:21,154
Speaker 1: unlikely that you can unseat this thirty plus year regime

267
00:13:21,234 --> 00:13:24,434
Speaker 1: that's in place with a week of bombing.

268
00:13:24,794 --> 00:13:28,353
Speaker 4: The thing that confused me the most was in his address.

269
00:13:29,394 --> 00:13:33,314
Speaker 4: He spoke to the people of Iran and said, I

270
00:13:33,354 --> 00:13:36,114
Speaker 4: say tonight that the hour of your freedom is at hand.

271
00:13:36,634 --> 00:13:39,634
Speaker 4: Stay sheltered, don't leave your home. Basically, bombs will be

272
00:13:39,674 --> 00:13:42,674
Speaker 4: dropping everywhere. But then he said, when we are finished

273
00:13:42,834 --> 00:13:45,434
Speaker 4: take over your government, it will be yours to take.

274
00:13:45,714 --> 00:13:49,754
Speaker 4: This will probably be your only chance for generations. If

275
00:13:49,754 --> 00:13:52,874
Speaker 4: someone was saying that to me as an Australian, what

276
00:13:52,994 --> 00:13:55,554
Speaker 4: are they actually meant to do? Like, I don't know

277
00:13:55,874 --> 00:13:58,914
Speaker 4: in what way he thinks that the average Iranian is

278
00:13:59,554 --> 00:14:01,434
Speaker 4: empowered to topple their government.

279
00:14:01,594 --> 00:14:06,074
Speaker 1: No, and he's also asking them for this extraordinary bravery,

280
00:14:06,114 --> 00:14:11,514
Speaker 1: bordering on recklessess. Just last month, thirty thousand Iranians were

281
00:14:11,594 --> 00:14:14,953
Speaker 1: killed by this regime. The Ayatola had set in place,

282
00:14:14,994 --> 00:14:18,314
Speaker 1: this whole structure of power in Iran called the Revolutionary

283
00:14:18,354 --> 00:14:21,314
Speaker 1: Guard Court. They are in every town, every city. They

284
00:14:21,354 --> 00:14:24,674
Speaker 1: know what everyone's doing. There's a lot of surveillance. It's

285
00:14:24,714 --> 00:14:26,834
Speaker 1: not as easy as just going out in the streets

286
00:14:26,874 --> 00:14:29,554
Speaker 1: and saying we're sick of this guy. I just think

287
00:14:29,554 --> 00:14:33,474
Speaker 1: there's a certain naivete to asking people to put their

288
00:14:33,514 --> 00:14:36,554
Speaker 1: own lives at risk to do something that may not

289
00:14:36,634 --> 00:14:37,674
Speaker 1: even be possible.

290
00:14:38,314 --> 00:14:42,154
Speaker 4: I keep hearing about this school that was bombed, an

291
00:14:42,194 --> 00:14:45,914
Speaker 4: all girls' school that killed at least one hundred and

292
00:14:45,994 --> 00:14:50,634
Speaker 4: sixty five people, and the idea of children being killed

293
00:14:50,634 --> 00:14:53,034
Speaker 4: in this strike is just sickening.

294
00:14:53,074 --> 00:14:54,194
Speaker 3: What do we know about that.

295
00:14:54,074 --> 00:14:56,554
Speaker 1: That's so horrible? It was, as you mentioned, a girl's

296
00:14:56,594 --> 00:15:00,234
Speaker 1: elementary school. It was in southern Iran. Apparently it was

297
00:15:00,274 --> 00:15:03,554
Speaker 1: next to I guess the strategic site. The New York

298
00:15:03,554 --> 00:15:06,714
Speaker 1: Times and the BBC have verified video that shows that

299
00:15:06,714 --> 00:15:09,274
Speaker 1: there was a strike there and that there were many

300
00:15:09,314 --> 00:15:12,914
Speaker 1: people who were killed, including students at the school. Israel

301
00:15:12,994 --> 00:15:15,274
Speaker 1: has said that this was not part of their campaign

302
00:15:15,354 --> 00:15:16,914
Speaker 1: or did not appear to be part of their campaign.

303
00:15:17,314 --> 00:15:20,114
Speaker 1: The US has the shortest that they're looking into it.

304
00:15:20,434 --> 00:15:23,794
Speaker 2: Just a couple of more local things. I wanted to know, Amelia,

305
00:15:23,834 --> 00:15:27,554
Speaker 2: why is albo Why is our prime minister come out

306
00:15:27,594 --> 00:15:29,634
Speaker 2: in support? You said at the beginning of this conversation.

307
00:15:29,674 --> 00:15:33,154
Speaker 2: He's came out and supported what America and Israel have done.

308
00:15:33,234 --> 00:15:35,594
Speaker 2: A lot of leaders around the world have not British

309
00:15:35,634 --> 00:15:38,914
Speaker 2: Prime Minister. European leaders have said no, why do you

310
00:15:38,954 --> 00:15:42,234
Speaker 2: think Australia supported it? And then my second part to

311
00:15:42,274 --> 00:15:45,434
Speaker 2: that question is in terms of it affecting Australians. One

312
00:15:45,474 --> 00:15:47,514
Speaker 2: of the ways that it's affecting Australians at the minute

313
00:15:47,554 --> 00:15:50,994
Speaker 2: is travel chaos. Anyone who wants to go to Europe

314
00:15:51,034 --> 00:15:52,834
Speaker 2: at the moment to parts of the Middle East. We've

315
00:15:52,874 --> 00:15:55,194
Speaker 2: got listeners who live in that part of the world.

316
00:15:55,554 --> 00:15:58,914
Speaker 2: Flights are grounded. Why is Albo so keine and how

317
00:15:58,914 --> 00:16:00,354
Speaker 2: long do you think that chaos is going to last?

318
00:16:00,394 --> 00:16:02,434
Speaker 1: For? Yeah, it's a really good question. I was really

319
00:16:02,474 --> 00:16:05,514
Speaker 1: struck by this personally because I was watching the World

320
00:16:05,594 --> 00:16:07,914
Speaker 1: Leader reactions for my other job over the weekend and

321
00:16:07,954 --> 00:16:11,554
Speaker 1: I noticed that it was just Albo and Mark Kearney

322
00:16:11,674 --> 00:16:14,954
Speaker 1: of Canada amongst this kind of western group of nations

323
00:16:14,994 --> 00:16:17,154
Speaker 1: who said, yep, we support you. This seems like a

324
00:16:17,154 --> 00:16:20,834
Speaker 1: good thing. As you mentioned, Kirstama Distant him Selfie in

325
00:16:20,834 --> 00:16:24,674
Speaker 1: fact reportedly didn't even let the US use British bases

326
00:16:24,754 --> 00:16:27,754
Speaker 1: to help launch their attacks, which felt quite pointed coming

327
00:16:27,754 --> 00:16:29,954
Speaker 1: from a very close friend of the US like the UK.

328
00:16:30,394 --> 00:16:32,714
Speaker 1: The European leaders were very we don't know her about

329
00:16:32,714 --> 00:16:36,034
Speaker 1: the whole thing, and I was wondering whether part of

330
00:16:36,074 --> 00:16:39,594
Speaker 1: the reason why Albo came out in support was because

331
00:16:39,914 --> 00:16:45,114
Speaker 1: you might remember that in twenty twenty four, Australian authorities

332
00:16:45,194 --> 00:16:49,274
Speaker 1: concluded that the Revolutionary Guard had been behind at least

333
00:16:49,354 --> 00:16:53,034
Speaker 1: two anti Semitic arson attacks on Jewish targets, and then

334
00:16:53,114 --> 00:16:56,954
Speaker 1: remember how he responded. He expelled Araund's ambassador, which had

335
00:16:56,954 --> 00:16:59,914
Speaker 1: not happened since the Second World War, and he said

336
00:16:59,954 --> 00:17:03,194
Speaker 1: the Revolutionary Guard that I've been talking about is officially

337
00:17:03,234 --> 00:17:08,634
Speaker 1: a terrorist organization under Australian law. I guess he feels

338
00:17:08,754 --> 00:17:12,154
Speaker 1: like that regime had made its presence no one in

339
00:17:12,194 --> 00:17:15,754
Speaker 1: Australia and that he wanted to take a stand on that.

340
00:17:16,034 --> 00:17:17,794
Speaker 2: What do you think about travel chaos? I know you're

341
00:17:17,834 --> 00:17:19,994
Speaker 2: not in charge of flights around the world, Amelia. I

342
00:17:20,034 --> 00:17:22,593
Speaker 2: know that isn't necessarily your It would be a terrible

343
00:17:22,634 --> 00:17:25,474
Speaker 2: air traffic control from what you're hearing, What do you.

344
00:17:25,474 --> 00:17:29,074
Speaker 1: Think it sounds bad? Apparently three thousand Australians are being

345
00:17:29,074 --> 00:17:33,634
Speaker 1: affected every hour and the bombing campaign Trump has kind

346
00:17:33,634 --> 00:17:35,794
Speaker 1: of indicated that it will last for about a week,

347
00:17:36,394 --> 00:17:39,714
Speaker 1: so I think that we can expect ongoing chaos.

348
00:17:40,514 --> 00:17:43,313
Speaker 4: After the break the show that has so many of

349
00:17:43,394 --> 00:17:50,674
Speaker 4: us longing for a world that no longer exists.

350
00:17:52,194 --> 00:17:56,394
Speaker 5: It's mea out Loadders and I had a lot to say,

351
00:17:56,674 --> 00:17:59,754
Speaker 5: well about everything, but Amilia and I had so much

352
00:17:59,754 --> 00:18:02,114
Speaker 5: to say about love Story, which is a TV series

353
00:18:02,434 --> 00:18:06,754
Speaker 5: about carolymbus At Kennedy and jfkjor that we came back

354
00:18:06,914 --> 00:18:11,553
Speaker 5: for round two. It's tomorrow's subscriber episode. We discussed Naomi

355
00:18:11,594 --> 00:18:14,914
Speaker 5: Watts as Jackie O and so much more. I use

356
00:18:14,954 --> 00:18:18,793
Speaker 5: the word drongo to describe JFK Jr. And there's a

357
00:18:18,834 --> 00:18:23,794
Speaker 5: special little excerpt from c BK's Real Life Best Friend.

358
00:18:24,114 --> 00:18:25,434
Speaker 1: Have a listen out.

359
00:18:25,354 --> 00:18:27,474
Speaker 2: Loud subscriber episode tomorrow.

360
00:18:27,874 --> 00:18:31,514
Speaker 5: I do subscriber episodes twice a week on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

361
00:18:31,674 --> 00:18:33,954
Speaker 5: So if you've missed having me in your ears and

362
00:18:33,994 --> 00:18:36,714
Speaker 5: you're not already a subscriber, follow the link in the

363
00:18:36,714 --> 00:18:39,994
Speaker 5: show notes to listen to out Loud five days a week.

364
00:18:41,874 --> 00:18:44,874
Speaker 4: With the release of Love Story, a drama series about

365
00:18:44,874 --> 00:18:47,594
Speaker 4: the romance of one of the most iconic couples of

366
00:18:47,594 --> 00:18:51,394
Speaker 4: the twentieth century, John F. Kennedy Junior and Carolyn Bassett,

367
00:18:51,714 --> 00:18:53,954
Speaker 4: there's been a really interesting reaction.

368
00:18:54,674 --> 00:18:56,594
Speaker 3: So I'm not actually watching the.

369
00:18:56,554 --> 00:18:59,034
Speaker 4: Show, but I've seen clips, I've seen photos, I've seen

370
00:18:59,114 --> 00:19:00,354
Speaker 4: all over What are you dealing with.

371
00:19:00,354 --> 00:19:04,234
Speaker 3: Your I know I'm watching maths and it's such a.

372
00:19:04,114 --> 00:19:09,194
Speaker 4: Commitment, honestly, like eight hours a week, honestly, for a

373
00:19:09,234 --> 00:19:12,634
Speaker 4: full time job at this stage. But if you've ever

374
00:19:12,714 --> 00:19:16,714
Speaker 4: been deeply invested in a show that is set twenty

375
00:19:16,714 --> 00:19:21,434
Speaker 4: plus years ago, you'll understand this feeling. A substack called

376
00:19:21,554 --> 00:19:25,154
Speaker 4: why Love Story is Resonating argues that the series is

377
00:19:25,234 --> 00:19:29,234
Speaker 4: landing because it captures something many feel we quietly lost,

378
00:19:29,754 --> 00:19:33,754
Speaker 4: and essentially it evokes nostalgia for a pre phone world.

379
00:19:34,354 --> 00:19:37,554
Speaker 4: You could even say that the atmosphere of the show

380
00:19:37,834 --> 00:19:41,553
Speaker 4: has created a phone nostalgia in younger people who have

381
00:19:41,674 --> 00:19:46,474
Speaker 4: never known that well, because the contrast between this moment

382
00:19:46,594 --> 00:19:49,914
Speaker 4: in history of these two absurdly beautiful people falling in

383
00:19:49,954 --> 00:19:54,553
Speaker 4: love and our own is really stuck. So in Love Story,

384
00:19:54,634 --> 00:20:00,834
Speaker 4: audiences are seeing a universe structured around friction. Things weren't

385
00:20:00,914 --> 00:20:04,634
Speaker 4: automated or simple. And some of the observations that were

386
00:20:04,634 --> 00:20:08,874
Speaker 4: made in this viral substack are that information was finite,

387
00:20:09,154 --> 00:20:12,554
Speaker 4: so there was a beginning and an end to your intake,

388
00:20:12,874 --> 00:20:18,234
Speaker 4: and scarcity created, meaning photos were taken on film and

389
00:20:18,874 --> 00:20:22,154
Speaker 4: because of that, they weren't developed till weeks later, and

390
00:20:22,194 --> 00:20:26,114
Speaker 4: there was a delay between experience and documentation, which made

391
00:20:26,194 --> 00:20:28,914
Speaker 4: them two different things, whereas now.

392
00:20:28,674 --> 00:20:30,834
Speaker 3: It's like we live an archive.

393
00:20:31,274 --> 00:20:34,634
Speaker 4: At the same time, which I have always felt takes

394
00:20:34,674 --> 00:20:37,514
Speaker 4: away from the living part because you're doing another job.

395
00:20:38,354 --> 00:20:40,834
Speaker 4: Access was physical, so if you wanted to be seen,

396
00:20:40,994 --> 00:20:42,033
Speaker 4: you had to be at a party.

397
00:20:42,074 --> 00:20:42,954
Speaker 3: You had to be at an event.

398
00:20:43,074 --> 00:20:43,914
Speaker 2: You have to go somewhere.

399
00:20:43,954 --> 00:20:45,834
Speaker 4: You had to go, You had to put on clothes

400
00:20:45,874 --> 00:20:48,954
Speaker 4: and go somewhere and interact with other humans. Whereas now

401
00:20:49,274 --> 00:20:51,034
Speaker 4: visibility is digital.

402
00:20:52,314 --> 00:20:53,994
Speaker 3: There was distance.

403
00:20:53,714 --> 00:20:56,714
Speaker 4: Between you and the world's chaos. Like we weren't as

404
00:20:57,154 --> 00:21:02,033
Speaker 4: globalized as we are now, we weren't as interconnected. You

405
00:21:02,194 --> 00:21:06,914
Speaker 4: chose what you consumed. The world had edges, and work

406
00:21:06,954 --> 00:21:11,194
Speaker 4: had edges, so when you left the office, you land exactly.

407
00:21:11,714 --> 00:21:17,354
Speaker 4: This substack makes the observation that convenience has flattened certain experiences.

408
00:21:17,954 --> 00:21:21,714
Speaker 4: So waiting used to build anticipation. We don't wait for

409
00:21:21,794 --> 00:21:27,434
Speaker 4: anything anymore. Limited access built curiosity. Not knowing built desire.

410
00:21:28,314 --> 00:21:32,114
Speaker 4: And in the trailer alone, you see Carolyn wake up

411
00:21:32,234 --> 00:21:35,194
Speaker 4: to an alarm clock, and that was a I thought,

412
00:21:35,234 --> 00:21:37,434
Speaker 4: Oh my god, imagine waking up, pressing a button, the

413
00:21:37,514 --> 00:21:40,394
Speaker 4: alarm stops, and there's nothing else to pick.

414
00:21:40,274 --> 00:21:43,354
Speaker 3: Up, there's nothing to scroll through. Your day is to gun.

415
00:21:44,594 --> 00:21:47,634
Speaker 4: I was struck by the sense that these characters get

416
00:21:47,674 --> 00:21:50,474
Speaker 4: to live life with two hands, whereas I feel like

417
00:21:50,514 --> 00:21:53,833
Speaker 4: I'm living life with one hand, and one hand is

418
00:21:54,034 --> 00:21:58,594
Speaker 4: totally occupied with something else. My attention is always half

419
00:21:58,634 --> 00:22:03,194
Speaker 4: inside my device, And because of that, the show evokes

420
00:22:03,234 --> 00:22:07,634
Speaker 4: this feeling of true presence, that perhaps we were able

421
00:22:07,674 --> 00:22:12,394
Speaker 4: to experience things more deeply and more profoundly. I remember

422
00:22:12,434 --> 00:22:15,474
Speaker 4: reading an article last year, and I can't remember where

423
00:22:15,474 --> 00:22:18,234
Speaker 4: I read it, but it was about how the automation

424
00:22:18,834 --> 00:22:21,114
Speaker 4: of what we do every day, like checking our phones

425
00:22:21,394 --> 00:22:23,954
Speaker 4: a million times and not taking in the novelty of

426
00:22:23,994 --> 00:22:30,194
Speaker 4: different environments and not noticing, actually speeds life up. So

427
00:22:30,674 --> 00:22:34,314
Speaker 4: it feels like it's going faster, and I cannot stop

428
00:22:34,354 --> 00:22:36,434
Speaker 4: thinking about that that. I think the more time I

429
00:22:36,474 --> 00:22:40,114
Speaker 4: spend on technology, the faster life goes. So I also

430
00:22:40,234 --> 00:22:43,793
Speaker 4: think shows like this slow time down, like all we

431
00:22:43,914 --> 00:22:48,474
Speaker 4: see that time is slower for those characters. Emelia, you're

432
00:22:48,554 --> 00:22:52,434
Speaker 4: watching Love Story, are you feeling this yearning for a

433
00:22:52,474 --> 00:22:53,674
Speaker 4: pre phone life?

434
00:22:54,274 --> 00:22:58,354
Speaker 1: I want to crawl inside this show and never leave.

435
00:22:58,754 --> 00:23:02,914
Speaker 1: The nostalgia is it almost hurts watching it. There's a

436
00:23:02,954 --> 00:23:05,394
Speaker 1: scene where Carolyn doesn't even know her photo was all

437
00:23:05,394 --> 00:23:08,114
Speaker 1: over the papers and she's just been out as JFK's

438
00:23:08,234 --> 00:23:12,634
Speaker 1: Junior's girlfriend. Until she's had her coffee, she's gotten dressed,

439
00:23:12,994 --> 00:23:15,914
Speaker 1: she's gotten to work, she's said hello to everyone at work,

440
00:23:16,074 --> 00:23:19,273
Speaker 1: she sits down at her desk, and then she picks

441
00:23:19,354 --> 00:23:23,714
Speaker 1: up the newspaper. Can you imagine not waking up to

442
00:23:23,794 --> 00:23:26,874
Speaker 1: a million notifications about bad news on your phone and

443
00:23:26,914 --> 00:23:29,754
Speaker 1: instead of being able to process things when you are

444
00:23:29,794 --> 00:23:30,594
Speaker 1: fully awake.

445
00:23:31,354 --> 00:23:35,833
Speaker 4: It's also way better for plot and like narrative, like

446
00:23:35,874 --> 00:23:39,074
Speaker 4: that is so much more traumatic. That's it makes really

447
00:23:39,114 --> 00:23:41,954
Speaker 4: hard writing things set in modern day because you're like

448
00:23:41,994 --> 00:23:43,114
Speaker 4: everything is through of us.

449
00:23:43,434 --> 00:23:45,834
Speaker 2: I've read a lot of analysis of why soap operas

450
00:23:45,874 --> 00:23:48,114
Speaker 2: are dying, things like Neighbors and you know, home and

451
00:23:48,154 --> 00:23:51,154
Speaker 2: Away and in written very famous ones, is because so

452
00:23:51,394 --> 00:23:54,994
Speaker 2: many plot points are all about the frustrations of not

453
00:23:55,074 --> 00:23:57,794
Speaker 2: being able to tell a person a thing, or that

454
00:23:57,794 --> 00:24:02,034
Speaker 2: the phone has raised so many of those friction points

455
00:24:02,194 --> 00:24:05,634
Speaker 2: that it does make life much more more. I've dipped

456
00:24:05,714 --> 00:24:07,394
Speaker 2: in and out of this show. I will dip back

457
00:24:07,394 --> 00:24:09,674
Speaker 2: in Amelia. I am definitely there. But the thing is

458
00:24:09,914 --> 00:24:12,833
Speaker 2: I did live in this era. My early socializing and

459
00:24:12,914 --> 00:24:17,513
Speaker 2: dating was in a pre phone world. Only just remember,

460
00:24:17,554 --> 00:24:19,794
Speaker 2: I remember very clearly when I first saw my first

461
00:24:19,834 --> 00:24:25,114
Speaker 2: mobile phones and all those things. But it makes me realize, well,

462
00:24:25,154 --> 00:24:29,114
Speaker 2: two things actually. One is the excitement I think about,

463
00:24:29,234 --> 00:24:32,514
Speaker 2: because the nineties was my twenties, right. I would go

464
00:24:32,594 --> 00:24:34,954
Speaker 2: out on a night and you would have an amazing

465
00:24:35,034 --> 00:24:37,394
Speaker 2: frizzle with someone or a flirtation or whatever, and then

466
00:24:37,394 --> 00:24:39,594
Speaker 2: you would never ever see that person ever again, and

467
00:24:39,634 --> 00:24:41,674
Speaker 2: there was no way to track them down. And it

468
00:24:41,794 --> 00:24:45,674
Speaker 2: was wildly exciting because then you might experience you might

469
00:24:45,754 --> 00:24:47,754
Speaker 2: just bump into them somewhere. You might just bump into

470
00:24:47,794 --> 00:24:49,914
Speaker 2: them somewhere. I remember there was this guy. I was

471
00:24:49,954 --> 00:24:51,994
Speaker 2: so crazy about him. I'd had this evening with him

472
00:24:51,994 --> 00:24:54,513
Speaker 2: in a bar where nothing had happened, but we'd been flirting, flirting,

473
00:24:54,514 --> 00:24:57,354
Speaker 2: and I gave him my number. And in those days,

474
00:24:57,594 --> 00:24:59,874
Speaker 2: someone would call you and if you weren't home, you

475
00:24:59,954 --> 00:25:02,674
Speaker 2: missed the call. And my flatmate answered the phone and

476
00:25:02,714 --> 00:25:04,514
Speaker 2: I wasn't there, and I was like, and what did

477
00:25:04,554 --> 00:25:08,754
Speaker 2: he say? What did he sound like? And how would

478
00:25:09,474 --> 00:25:11,394
Speaker 2: and we never I never did get to go on

479
00:25:11,434 --> 00:25:13,234
Speaker 2: that date with that guy, and who knows what life

480
00:25:13,234 --> 00:25:15,714
Speaker 2: could have been like. I know, but all that is

481
00:25:15,754 --> 00:25:18,514
Speaker 2: so exciting, right, But it made the thing that's interesting

482
00:25:18,514 --> 00:25:21,994
Speaker 2: to me about this is the fauxstalgia of it, because

483
00:25:22,554 --> 00:25:24,674
Speaker 2: people have always been nostalgic. I remember when I was

484
00:25:24,714 --> 00:25:26,474
Speaker 2: a little kid, I'd asked my mum, do you remember

485
00:25:26,474 --> 00:25:28,874
Speaker 2: the first time I saw a TV? Like my grandparents,

486
00:25:28,914 --> 00:25:30,794
Speaker 2: what was the world like without a TV?

487
00:25:30,954 --> 00:25:31,033
Speaker 1: Like?

488
00:25:31,074 --> 00:25:33,914
Speaker 2: You couldn't possibly imagine it. I never once wanted to

489
00:25:33,914 --> 00:25:35,994
Speaker 2: live in that world. I wasn't interested in living in

490
00:25:35,994 --> 00:25:38,834
Speaker 2: a world without TV. That was not a thing. Whereas

491
00:25:39,314 --> 00:25:42,394
Speaker 2: young people are interested in what it was like to

492
00:25:42,434 --> 00:25:44,634
Speaker 2: live in a world without phones and have a certain

493
00:25:44,634 --> 00:25:46,714
Speaker 2: amount of yearning for it, even as much as they

494
00:25:46,714 --> 00:25:49,554
Speaker 2: can't bear the idea of not being able to order

495
00:25:49,594 --> 00:25:52,874
Speaker 2: food immediately. Like my daughter only wants to take pictures

496
00:25:52,874 --> 00:25:54,434
Speaker 2: on her with her of her and her friend's on

497
00:25:54,474 --> 00:25:57,514
Speaker 2: a digital camera, not on a phone. It's something about

498
00:25:57,514 --> 00:26:00,554
Speaker 2: the way it looks. It's something about that slightly imperfect

499
00:26:00,874 --> 00:26:04,234
Speaker 2: vibe that they want. And I find that really interesting

500
00:26:04,274 --> 00:26:07,793
Speaker 2: because they've never known this time, and I mean, you

501
00:26:07,834 --> 00:26:10,874
Speaker 2: guys haven't known this time as adults, and yet it

502
00:26:10,994 --> 00:26:14,754
Speaker 2: feels so appealing. It's not actually nostalgia. It's like an

503
00:26:14,834 --> 00:26:17,793
Speaker 2: imagined world. It's like yearning for a horse and carriage

504
00:26:17,834 --> 00:26:18,594
Speaker 2: instead of a car.

505
00:26:19,274 --> 00:26:20,114
Speaker 3: It's weird to.

506
00:26:20,274 --> 00:26:24,874
Speaker 4: Know while you're actively engaged in something, as we all

507
00:26:24,914 --> 00:26:28,554
Speaker 4: are with our phones, it's weird to know it's making

508
00:26:28,594 --> 00:26:32,513
Speaker 4: our quality of life worse. I understand Matilda kind of

509
00:26:32,954 --> 00:26:36,914
Speaker 4: longing for that world, as you say, Holly, even having

510
00:26:36,994 --> 00:26:40,833
Speaker 4: not experienced it, because what you're talking about with dating,

511
00:26:41,354 --> 00:26:45,074
Speaker 4: I never experienced that when you hooked up with someone,

512
00:26:45,394 --> 00:26:49,514
Speaker 4: you could so easily find them on MySpace and you'd

513
00:26:49,514 --> 00:26:51,874
Speaker 4: see who all their friends were, and you'd get this

514
00:26:51,954 --> 00:26:56,033
Speaker 4: like digital idea of what their identity was. And it

515
00:26:56,114 --> 00:27:02,154
Speaker 4: meant the dating and socializing generally became really porous like

516
00:27:02,314 --> 00:27:06,674
Speaker 4: that you never had to commit to anything because you

517
00:27:07,194 --> 00:27:11,313
Speaker 4: could just commit via your phone at some point, like

518
00:27:11,634 --> 00:27:14,154
Speaker 4: there wasn't anything clear about any of it.

519
00:27:14,514 --> 00:27:18,033
Speaker 2: Also, you find out who someone is immediately that colors

520
00:27:18,114 --> 00:27:21,434
Speaker 2: all your judgment about them, whereas in a pre instant

521
00:27:21,474 --> 00:27:23,794
Speaker 2: research world you had to get to know them.

522
00:27:23,714 --> 00:27:25,834
Speaker 1: You had to rely on alone you did.

523
00:27:25,874 --> 00:27:27,314
Speaker 2: You had to get to know them before you could

524
00:27:27,394 --> 00:27:28,594
Speaker 2: judge them on discard them.

525
00:27:28,634 --> 00:27:30,273
Speaker 4: I don't think I had it then, but I have

526
00:27:30,394 --> 00:27:33,793
Speaker 4: it now that it really feels like I don't know

527
00:27:33,834 --> 00:27:37,154
Speaker 4: the presence, like the act of being present has been

528
00:27:37,754 --> 00:27:40,754
Speaker 4: stolen from all of us.

529
00:27:40,474 --> 00:27:44,954
Speaker 1: And it's so much harder now to opt out of it.

530
00:27:45,074 --> 00:27:47,994
Speaker 1: So I did go for a walk last week for

531
00:27:48,074 --> 00:27:52,594
Speaker 1: an hour without my phone, and it felt like four

532
00:27:53,194 --> 00:27:55,154
Speaker 1: I don't want to make it sound like I went

533
00:27:55,234 --> 00:27:57,634
Speaker 1: through an endurance test, but I kind of went through

534
00:27:57,634 --> 00:28:03,033
Speaker 1: an endurance test. I found so many uncomfortable moments or

535
00:28:03,074 --> 00:28:05,674
Speaker 1: thoughts bubbling into my mind that I couldn't push away

536
00:28:05,714 --> 00:28:08,353
Speaker 1: by pulling out my phone. I was very bored at

537
00:28:08,434 --> 00:28:12,634
Speaker 1: various points. I was curious wholly about whether you think

538
00:28:12,714 --> 00:28:18,034
Speaker 1: people their behavior was different because they didn't have the phones,

539
00:28:18,114 --> 00:28:20,834
Speaker 1: because you knew that, you know, you're going to meet

540
00:28:20,834 --> 00:28:22,274
Speaker 1: this guy at a bar, and you may or may

541
00:28:22,314 --> 00:28:24,914
Speaker 1: not ever see him again. How do you think that

542
00:28:25,154 --> 00:28:28,154
Speaker 1: changed how people interacted with each other. Do you think

543
00:28:28,154 --> 00:28:30,074
Speaker 1: they were a bit more careful with each other because

544
00:28:30,114 --> 00:28:33,074
Speaker 1: they knew that their experience together could be finite.

545
00:28:34,074 --> 00:28:37,834
Speaker 2: I think so, But I also think it did also

546
00:28:38,034 --> 00:28:40,114
Speaker 2: mean that you wanted to seize the moment, do you

547
00:28:40,114 --> 00:28:43,034
Speaker 2: know what I mean? Like, I think that it seemed

548
00:28:43,074 --> 00:28:45,634
Speaker 2: so unlikely that maybe this person would call you and

549
00:28:45,674 --> 00:28:47,634
Speaker 2: you would be home when they did, and then you

550
00:28:47,634 --> 00:28:50,354
Speaker 2: would know your past flatmate would pass on the message

551
00:28:50,474 --> 00:28:52,754
Speaker 2: or whatever it was, you know, so in some ways

552
00:28:52,754 --> 00:28:55,514
Speaker 2: it probably made you want to seize the moment. I

553
00:28:55,554 --> 00:28:59,114
Speaker 2: think there's no question that the containment. What I liked

554
00:28:59,114 --> 00:29:01,794
Speaker 2: about this at Substack was the discussion of the containment

555
00:29:01,914 --> 00:29:04,314
Speaker 2: of your world, you know, like the news was this thing,

556
00:29:04,354 --> 00:29:06,634
Speaker 2: as you said, Claire, when you were explaining it to us,

557
00:29:06,634 --> 00:29:09,034
Speaker 2: that you know, you opted into, you consumed it, you

558
00:29:09,034 --> 00:29:11,994
Speaker 2: stepped away from an evening or an interaction, was a

559
00:29:11,994 --> 00:29:13,834
Speaker 2: specific thing, and it began and it ended, And it

560
00:29:13,834 --> 00:29:18,074
Speaker 2: made me realize that I'm always chasing those containments in

561
00:29:18,114 --> 00:29:21,714
Speaker 2: my life, like I'm always chasing windows of time where

562
00:29:21,754 --> 00:29:24,314
Speaker 2: I can just do one thing and not look at

563
00:29:24,314 --> 00:29:26,394
Speaker 2: all the other things. But it never quite works. And

564
00:29:26,434 --> 00:29:28,354
Speaker 2: I was actually thinking not to bang on about this

565
00:29:28,394 --> 00:29:29,794
Speaker 2: too much, but I'm going to bang on about it

566
00:29:29,794 --> 00:29:32,234
Speaker 2: bit more. When I was at Bad Bunny on Saturday

567
00:29:32,314 --> 00:29:33,914
Speaker 2: night and I was trying very hard to live in

568
00:29:33,954 --> 00:29:36,434
Speaker 2: the moment, and I did because I was dancing, it

569
00:29:36,474 --> 00:29:37,954
Speaker 2: was having a great time. But he plays for like

570
00:29:37,994 --> 00:29:40,194
Speaker 2: two hours, which is quite a long time. I picked

571
00:29:40,234 --> 00:29:42,754
Speaker 2: up my phone at some point towards the end of

572
00:29:42,794 --> 00:29:46,234
Speaker 2: it and there were news alerts about obviously the world

573
00:29:46,234 --> 00:29:48,874
Speaker 2: events that had happened. While I was there. My daughter

574
00:29:48,954 --> 00:29:50,834
Speaker 2: was trying to call me from where she was, which

575
00:29:50,994 --> 00:29:54,034
Speaker 2: seems kind of important. I was also getting some messages

576
00:29:54,074 --> 00:29:55,954
Speaker 2: from a friend about another friend of ours with a

577
00:29:56,034 --> 00:29:58,834
Speaker 2: health issue. Like I was pulled out of that moment

578
00:29:59,154 --> 00:30:02,314
Speaker 2: like that, do you know what I mean? Whereas if

579
00:30:02,314 --> 00:30:04,514
Speaker 2: I was Karen Bassett, and let's face it, I could

580
00:30:04,554 --> 00:30:09,314
Speaker 2: be you're hair, Oh my god, that would have all

581
00:30:09,354 --> 00:30:10,674
Speaker 2: caught up with me when I walked in the door

582
00:30:10,674 --> 00:30:12,514
Speaker 2: and press play on my answering machine, do you know

583
00:30:12,514 --> 00:30:15,314
Speaker 2: what I mean? And that allowed you to be fully

584
00:30:15,474 --> 00:30:18,554
Speaker 2: in what you were in. You know, it's really I.

585
00:30:18,474 --> 00:30:20,394
Speaker 1: Do know because I went to a concert a couple

586
00:30:20,434 --> 00:30:23,434
Speaker 1: of weeks ago. It was crowded house actually and oh

587
00:30:23,514 --> 00:30:27,634
Speaker 1: yes outside, yeah Bondey, And the more famous the song,

588
00:30:28,114 --> 00:30:31,154
Speaker 1: the more phones would be held up to record the song.

589
00:30:31,434 --> 00:30:33,554
Speaker 1: So by the time we got to Don't Dream It's Over,

590
00:30:34,234 --> 00:30:38,514
Speaker 1: I mean, everyone was a documentarian and it just made

591
00:30:38,554 --> 00:30:41,834
Speaker 1: me a little bit sad because, by the way, we

592
00:30:41,914 --> 00:30:42,834
Speaker 1: never watched these videos.

593
00:30:42,874 --> 00:30:44,834
Speaker 2: It's so true. I've filmed so many things.

594
00:30:44,994 --> 00:30:48,314
Speaker 1: It's like photos of sunsets and videos of concerts. I'm

595
00:30:48,434 --> 00:30:51,114
Speaker 1: literally never looking at them again. So I don't know

596
00:30:51,154 --> 00:30:52,994
Speaker 1: why we feel compelled to do that.

597
00:30:53,074 --> 00:30:55,354
Speaker 2: I guess because you want to hold onto the moment.

598
00:30:55,154 --> 00:30:58,274
Speaker 1: The moment to last longer. But actually, as you've established

599
00:30:58,274 --> 00:31:00,554
Speaker 1: as clarinet, that's a real light bulb moment for me.

600
00:31:00,594 --> 00:31:02,914
Speaker 1: If you want a moment to last longer, you actually

601
00:31:02,954 --> 00:31:04,394
Speaker 1: have to put the phone away.

602
00:31:04,154 --> 00:31:05,754
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it makes it speed up.

603
00:31:05,834 --> 00:31:09,714
Speaker 4: I think it a lot with parenting with your I think,

604
00:31:09,834 --> 00:31:13,594
Speaker 4: how did people do this without phone? Like did you

605
00:31:13,634 --> 00:31:17,594
Speaker 4: sit there and stare into your child's eyes a whole

606
00:31:17,634 --> 00:31:18,034
Speaker 4: lot more?

607
00:31:18,154 --> 00:31:18,554
Speaker 2: Or we do?

608
00:31:18,834 --> 00:31:21,914
Speaker 4: And that's the other thing I'm really interested about with like,

609
00:31:21,954 --> 00:31:24,394
Speaker 4: I think there's a real curiosity about a pre phone

610
00:31:24,474 --> 00:31:28,554
Speaker 4: life because I can't imagine it, Like I can't imagine

611
00:31:28,554 --> 00:31:31,754
Speaker 4: being an adult and not having my phone. I think

612
00:31:31,794 --> 00:31:34,314
Speaker 4: about that life and I think, were you distracted by

613
00:31:34,354 --> 00:31:34,994
Speaker 4: other things?

614
00:31:35,154 --> 00:31:36,594
Speaker 3: Have we just replaced distraction?

615
00:31:36,874 --> 00:31:39,274
Speaker 2: I think we have romanticized it in a way that

616
00:31:39,314 --> 00:31:42,474
Speaker 2: we're like and we were all so attentive to everything

617
00:31:42,514 --> 00:31:44,594
Speaker 2: all the time. I don't think that's true. We were

618
00:31:44,634 --> 00:31:48,194
Speaker 2: still gossiping, bored, reading gossip magazines, doing what like you know,

619
00:31:48,234 --> 00:31:51,714
Speaker 2: we were still distracting ourselves with plenty of things, but

620
00:31:51,794 --> 00:31:54,154
Speaker 2: there was no question you know that you were where

621
00:31:54,194 --> 00:31:56,314
Speaker 2: you were. You know, your focus had to be in

622
00:31:56,314 --> 00:31:59,274
Speaker 2: one particular place, or you were daydreaming and you were

623
00:31:59,594 --> 00:32:02,234
Speaker 2: like So, I think we do romanticize it a fair

624
00:32:02,314 --> 00:32:04,634
Speaker 2: bit in this idea that like in all the relationships

625
00:32:04,674 --> 00:32:07,114
Speaker 2: were more meaningful. That's not true. People were doing all

626
00:32:07,234 --> 00:32:09,834
Speaker 2: kinds of shitty things then as they are now. But

627
00:32:10,154 --> 00:32:14,394
Speaker 2: I think that it's true that you're more present, which

628
00:32:14,434 --> 00:32:17,594
Speaker 2: is such a cliche, but I mean that's clearly true. Amelia,

629
00:32:17,674 --> 00:32:19,674
Speaker 2: you love the show? Do you recommend it to everybody?

630
00:32:19,714 --> 00:32:22,954
Speaker 2: This Window into the Night Foster.

631
00:32:22,874 --> 00:32:27,954
Speaker 1: I remember enjoying a show so much as I have

632
00:32:28,154 --> 00:32:30,354
Speaker 1: enjoyed this show. And I don't sit on my phone

633
00:32:30,434 --> 00:32:33,194
Speaker 1: during it. There's something It casts a spell over you.

634
00:32:33,274 --> 00:32:35,834
Speaker 1: It takes you back to nineties New York? What could

635
00:32:35,834 --> 00:32:38,714
Speaker 1: be better? Mia and I are getting back into the

636
00:32:38,754 --> 00:32:42,554
Speaker 1: studio to talk more Love Story because it's our favorite show,

637
00:32:42,754 --> 00:32:46,074
Speaker 1: and you can listen to that in Tuesday's subs episode.

638
00:32:46,274 --> 00:32:47,994
Speaker 1: I read this funny article on the paper the other

639
00:32:48,074 --> 00:32:51,394
Speaker 1: day about how and I thought this was just my kids.

640
00:32:51,394 --> 00:32:54,034
Speaker 1: But when your kids ask you to Google something and

641
00:32:54,074 --> 00:32:56,194
Speaker 1: you're on your phone because I guess they're thinking, well,

642
00:32:56,194 --> 00:32:58,034
Speaker 1: you got the phone out, you can google it for me.

643
00:32:58,434 --> 00:32:59,754
Speaker 1: And then you say to them, I don't want to

644
00:32:59,754 --> 00:33:01,514
Speaker 1: google that for you, and too busy scrolling.

645
00:33:01,634 --> 00:33:05,234
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's just me.

646
00:33:09,154 --> 00:33:12,274
Speaker 1: After the break. Now that Andrew Mountbatten Windsor has been

647
00:33:12,314 --> 00:33:16,434
Speaker 1: disgraced and expelled from public life, what happens to his

648
00:33:16,514 --> 00:33:27,074
Speaker 1: ex wife and to his daughters, Beatrice and Eugenie. News

649
00:33:27,074 --> 00:33:31,674
Speaker 1: broke yesterday more news that Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie

650
00:33:31,714 --> 00:33:36,114
Speaker 1: have been uninvited from the Royal carriage procession at Royal

651
00:33:36,234 --> 00:33:37,674
Speaker 1: Ascot this June.

652
00:33:38,474 --> 00:33:40,234
Speaker 2: Now that sounds like a big deal.

653
00:33:40,474 --> 00:33:43,434
Speaker 1: I know, I too will not be riding in the

654
00:33:43,514 --> 00:33:47,194
Speaker 1: Royal Carriage Procession at Royal Ascot this June, but I imagine

655
00:33:47,074 --> 00:33:50,354
Speaker 1: it came as a ruder shock to Andrew and Fergie's daughters,

656
00:33:50,394 --> 00:33:53,034
Speaker 1: who would otherwise have been in attendance. In no doubt

657
00:33:53,074 --> 00:33:56,234
Speaker 1: some kind of fabulous hat. Holly, you have said in

658
00:33:56,314 --> 00:33:59,914
Speaker 1: recent weeks with the Epstein revelations, that the monarchy, the

659
00:33:59,914 --> 00:34:03,834
Speaker 1: British monarchy, its existence, its survival is actually on the

660
00:34:03,874 --> 00:34:05,714
Speaker 1: line here. It's at stake now.

661
00:34:05,674 --> 00:34:06,514
Speaker 2: I'm dialing it up.

662
00:34:06,554 --> 00:34:10,314
Speaker 1: People are pissed. Is this William trying to sort of

663
00:34:10,393 --> 00:34:13,314
Speaker 1: distance himself and say this is a slim down monarchy.

664
00:34:13,393 --> 00:34:16,154
Speaker 1: I'm not including Andrew and Fergie's daughters in my monarchy?

665
00:34:16,314 --> 00:34:18,674
Speaker 1: Is this what's going on here? And then my follow

666
00:34:18,714 --> 00:34:20,714
Speaker 1: what question? Is is that fair?

667
00:34:20,994 --> 00:34:23,754
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good question. Now if r E. P.

668
00:34:23,954 --> 00:34:25,913
Speaker 2: Ruth was here, she'd say that the posh way to

669
00:34:25,954 --> 00:34:28,034
Speaker 2: say the younger daughter's name is.

670
00:34:28,834 --> 00:34:32,194
Speaker 1: Oh my, I'm so is that right?

671
00:34:32,474 --> 00:34:35,514
Speaker 2: Apparently doesn't she go by ooge? I think I've certainly

672
00:34:35,514 --> 00:34:40,034
Speaker 2: heard Prince Harry call her huge huge. I quite logical.

673
00:34:40,474 --> 00:34:43,754
Speaker 3: I know we're very Eugenie Genie.

674
00:34:43,474 --> 00:34:47,594
Speaker 2: But I think we say Eugenie anyway. It sounds silly, right,

675
00:34:47,594 --> 00:34:50,114
Speaker 2: they weren't invited to ride in this carriage, big woop,

676
00:34:50,554 --> 00:34:51,274
Speaker 2: and it's not even.

677
00:34:51,154 --> 00:34:56,993
Speaker 1: Until doesn't sound silly, but let me explain the significance

678
00:34:56,994 --> 00:34:57,314
Speaker 1: of that.

679
00:34:57,474 --> 00:34:59,594
Speaker 2: Right, So it's not even until June Ascot, so it's

680
00:34:59,634 --> 00:35:00,514
Speaker 2: ages away.

681
00:35:00,434 --> 00:35:04,714
Speaker 1: And it is literally a carriage like a charter bus.

682
00:35:04,434 --> 00:35:07,754
Speaker 2: Literally an open carriage. They're obviously fricks ma seing the

683
00:35:07,834 --> 00:35:10,514
Speaker 2: royal family like that. They're going back in time. Anyway,

684
00:35:11,114 --> 00:35:14,434
Speaker 2: The reason why it's significant is so princess is Beatrice

685
00:35:14,474 --> 00:35:16,834
Speaker 2: and Eugenie, who are now like properly grown up thirty

686
00:35:16,874 --> 00:35:19,594
Speaker 2: seven and thirty five. I was like, wow, I know

687
00:35:19,674 --> 00:35:23,354
Speaker 2: if we've been old, but they're probably grown up. They're

688
00:35:23,394 --> 00:35:26,913
Speaker 2: not working royals, so they're not on the payroll, right,

689
00:35:26,954 --> 00:35:30,234
Speaker 2: but they occupy this unique space where they're kind of

690
00:35:30,274 --> 00:35:34,154
Speaker 2: middling royals because they've still got their titles. They're still hrhs.

691
00:35:34,554 --> 00:35:37,954
Speaker 2: Beatrice is still officially what's called a Counselor of State

692
00:35:38,074 --> 00:35:40,913
Speaker 2: because of her position on the succession ladder, at least

693
00:35:40,914 --> 00:35:43,394
Speaker 2: at the moment, so she can step up and sign

694
00:35:43,434 --> 00:35:47,914
Speaker 2: things for the king him sign she's too young, step

695
00:35:47,914 --> 00:35:50,754
Speaker 2: in if needed, right. So you've got to remember that

696
00:35:50,834 --> 00:35:52,794
Speaker 2: the royal family have all these jobs to do. Go

697
00:35:52,834 --> 00:35:54,993
Speaker 2: and open this plant, but go to this charity thing,

698
00:35:55,074 --> 00:35:56,714
Speaker 2: go and shine a light on this, wear a nice

699
00:35:56,754 --> 00:35:59,274
Speaker 2: dress to this bafters whatever. There used to be a

700
00:35:59,274 --> 00:36:01,474
Speaker 2: few of them to share that around. Harry and Meghan.

701
00:36:02,194 --> 00:36:02,714
Speaker 1: They're out.

702
00:36:02,754 --> 00:36:04,993
Speaker 2: They're not around to do that stuff anymore. And when

703
00:36:05,034 --> 00:36:07,874
Speaker 2: that first happened, people said, oh, well, Beatrice is usueni

704
00:36:08,674 --> 00:36:12,474
Speaker 2: will step up and have their profiles raised. Not so much,

705
00:36:12,674 --> 00:36:15,354
Speaker 2: not so much since what's happened to their dad has happened.

706
00:36:15,834 --> 00:36:18,794
Speaker 2: So they're not official working royals, but a few times

707
00:36:18,834 --> 00:36:21,954
Speaker 2: a year they still get invited to the big Royal

708
00:36:22,194 --> 00:36:24,354
Speaker 2: This is our clan, these are our people. And those

709
00:36:24,394 --> 00:36:27,994
Speaker 2: events would be garden parties, the trooping of the collar,

710
00:36:28,594 --> 00:36:32,114
Speaker 2: the church on Christmas Day, Remembrance Day and royal ascot.

711
00:36:32,234 --> 00:36:34,074
Speaker 2: The King in the past has chosen them to sit

712
00:36:34,114 --> 00:36:37,433
Speaker 2: in the carriage with him and Camilla, and it basically

713
00:36:37,474 --> 00:36:39,433
Speaker 2: says to the world, even though it's just riding in

714
00:36:39,434 --> 00:36:42,274
Speaker 2: a carriage on a race day, it basically says to

715
00:36:42,314 --> 00:36:45,074
Speaker 2: the world, this is us. We're showing out. You know

716
00:36:45,314 --> 00:36:48,994
Speaker 2: who makes it into the family photo. These guys do. Now.

717
00:36:49,434 --> 00:36:51,514
Speaker 2: The problem is, even though they're not working Royals and

718
00:36:51,554 --> 00:36:54,154
Speaker 2: they don't get all the money or anything, they do

719
00:36:54,354 --> 00:36:57,194
Speaker 2: still live a little bit on the royal hog. Yeah.

720
00:36:57,194 --> 00:37:00,274
Speaker 4: I think when they turn forty they get five million

721
00:37:00,474 --> 00:37:02,634
Speaker 4: pounds from Great Granny something.

722
00:37:03,074 --> 00:37:05,513
Speaker 2: They've got a couple of royal trust funds, so as

723
00:37:05,514 --> 00:37:07,634
Speaker 2: you say, the Queen mother set them up a five

724
00:37:07,634 --> 00:37:09,954
Speaker 2: million pound trust fund. Forty is a weird age to

725
00:37:09,994 --> 00:37:11,554
Speaker 2: get your trust fund. It is weird.

726
00:37:11,634 --> 00:37:13,354
Speaker 1: Your frontal cortex is well and.

727
00:37:13,314 --> 00:37:15,594
Speaker 4: Truly I think they'll make great decisions.

728
00:37:15,674 --> 00:37:18,194
Speaker 2: They also got a trust fund from Queenie when their

729
00:37:18,234 --> 00:37:20,873
Speaker 2: parents divorced. How much that is only rumored to be

730
00:37:20,874 --> 00:37:22,834
Speaker 2: about one and a half million pounds, but imagine the

731
00:37:23,034 --> 00:37:25,154
Speaker 2: interest on that and the year, like it's been a

732
00:37:25,154 --> 00:37:28,594
Speaker 2: long time. And also although they both have jobs and

733
00:37:28,634 --> 00:37:32,034
Speaker 2: private incomes and husbands with jobs and private incomes, well

734
00:37:32,074 --> 00:37:34,474
Speaker 2: one of them is a tequilamad.

735
00:37:35,714 --> 00:37:36,754
Speaker 1: That's a serious job.

736
00:37:38,834 --> 00:37:42,114
Speaker 2: They both kind of still live in royal great what

737
00:37:42,154 --> 00:37:45,993
Speaker 2: they call Grayson Favor properties, which means like, so say,

738
00:37:46,274 --> 00:37:49,114
Speaker 2: I think Beatrice has a house in the cotswords. Let's

739
00:37:49,114 --> 00:37:51,394
Speaker 2: make sure I'm not mixing them up. I think Beatrice

740
00:37:51,434 --> 00:37:53,114
Speaker 2: has a house in the Cotswolds, which is where all

741
00:37:53,154 --> 00:37:55,714
Speaker 2: the posh English people live outside of London. But she

742
00:37:55,874 --> 00:37:59,074
Speaker 2: also when she's in London she has an official flat

743
00:37:59,154 --> 00:38:02,034
Speaker 2: at like Kensington Palace and James.

744
00:38:02,914 --> 00:38:03,674
Speaker 1: Mean no rent.

745
00:38:03,794 --> 00:38:06,194
Speaker 2: I think that's what it means, right, So although they're

746
00:38:06,234 --> 00:38:09,034
Speaker 2: not royal Royal, they still get the Perks's basically the

747
00:38:09,074 --> 00:38:13,474
Speaker 2: bottom line. Now, William is not keen on this. I

748
00:38:13,514 --> 00:38:15,433
Speaker 2: think he, after all, is going to be stuck for

749
00:38:15,514 --> 00:38:19,234
Speaker 2: the long haul with all of Andrew's ramifications, right, So

750
00:38:19,314 --> 00:38:22,314
Speaker 2: he's kind of saying, I think it's time to start

751
00:38:22,474 --> 00:38:27,114
Speaker 2: excluding them now. They also were always famously closer to Harry.

752
00:38:27,234 --> 00:38:29,393
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's never really liked the Yorks. Right. He did

753
00:38:29,434 --> 00:38:32,194
Speaker 1: not invite Fergie to his wedding and apparently the girls

754
00:38:32,194 --> 00:38:33,314
Speaker 1: were very upset about that.

755
00:38:33,634 --> 00:38:36,994
Speaker 2: Yep, he's much more I think he's much more scandal

756
00:38:36,994 --> 00:38:39,634
Speaker 2: averse because he's going to be, you know, left with

757
00:38:39,634 --> 00:38:41,234
Speaker 2: the shitskirt when it all goes down.

758
00:38:41,354 --> 00:38:43,594
Speaker 1: And don't they kind of run in different circles too,

759
00:38:43,674 --> 00:38:47,154
Speaker 1: Like William is all about the country set. Yes, they're

760
00:38:47,194 --> 00:38:48,834
Speaker 1: wearing their wellies and their pearls.

761
00:38:48,874 --> 00:38:51,114
Speaker 2: I think they certainly used to. Whether they still do

762
00:38:51,234 --> 00:38:53,433
Speaker 2: as I say. Beatrice is now very Cotswolds, which is

763
00:38:53,514 --> 00:38:55,433
Speaker 2: very bad, But I think they used to be much

764
00:38:55,474 --> 00:39:00,274
Speaker 2: more like at glitz glitzier for sure, and USUALI lives

765
00:39:00,274 --> 00:39:02,754
Speaker 2: half most of the year in Portugal because she married

766
00:39:02,794 --> 00:39:05,514
Speaker 2: a fancy businessman from Portugal and she works in the

767
00:39:05,634 --> 00:39:07,033
Speaker 2: art world, which is a posh lady job.

768
00:39:07,194 --> 00:39:09,393
Speaker 1: Can we break down the difference between them? So?

769
00:39:09,514 --> 00:39:14,354
Speaker 2: Beatrice is vice president of strategic Partnerships at the software

770
00:39:14,434 --> 00:39:17,393
Speaker 2: company Affinity Okay, yes, so she's got a proper job.

771
00:39:17,554 --> 00:39:19,354
Speaker 2: Not that there aren't proper jobs, but I'm just saying

772
00:39:19,394 --> 00:39:23,194
Speaker 2: royals are not that much proper jobs. She is married to,

773
00:39:23,434 --> 00:39:25,714
Speaker 2: so actually I think I got my Royals mixed up.

774
00:39:25,754 --> 00:39:29,714
Speaker 2: She is the one who's married to Eduardo Mapelli Motzi, right,

775
00:39:30,354 --> 00:39:34,714
Speaker 2: he's from Italian noble descent. They have two daughters. Usuanie

776
00:39:34,874 --> 00:39:39,114
Speaker 2: is married to Jack Brooksbank. He is a well I

777
00:39:39,154 --> 00:39:41,553
Speaker 2: think he's the one with the tequila brand. And they

778
00:39:41,674 --> 00:39:42,434
Speaker 2: have two boys.

779
00:39:42,514 --> 00:39:44,794
Speaker 1: He's an ambassador for George Clooney's.

780
00:39:44,354 --> 00:39:46,834
Speaker 2: To Kill they go. Yes, so they have two boys,

781
00:39:46,834 --> 00:39:48,034
Speaker 2: which is a nice mirror.

782
00:39:47,794 --> 00:39:48,994
Speaker 1: Right, And who lives in Portugal?

783
00:39:49,074 --> 00:39:51,393
Speaker 2: Beatrice lives in the Cotswolds, but she also has an

784
00:39:51,394 --> 00:39:54,714
Speaker 2: apartment in Saint James's Palace. Usually lives in Portugal, but

785
00:39:54,834 --> 00:39:58,034
Speaker 2: she has a college at Kensington Palace, right, So they

786
00:39:58,114 --> 00:40:01,154
Speaker 2: kind of mix in slightly different circles. But they've both

787
00:40:01,394 --> 00:40:03,873
Speaker 2: married well as you'd say in Britain in terms of

788
00:40:03,914 --> 00:40:06,194
Speaker 2: the fact they're not wanting a few bob, which is

789
00:40:06,754 --> 00:40:10,474
Speaker 2: always been Fergie's problem, right. But William is like, we

790
00:40:10,554 --> 00:40:12,554
Speaker 2: might as well start slimming down now. I think is

791
00:40:12,554 --> 00:40:15,514
Speaker 2: his point. I don't want to inherit all this scandal

792
00:40:15,554 --> 00:40:18,914
Speaker 2: and drama, whereas childs is still there. My nieces. The

793
00:40:19,074 --> 00:40:21,954
Speaker 2: interesting question though, right their only princesses because their father's

794
00:40:21,954 --> 00:40:23,873
Speaker 2: a prince. And if their father's no longer a prince,

795
00:40:23,914 --> 00:40:25,074
Speaker 2: then are they still princess?

796
00:40:25,514 --> 00:40:27,754
Speaker 1: If a tree falls in a forest? Claire, I know

797
00:40:27,874 --> 00:40:31,314
Speaker 1: you care deeply about this, So I'm going to outline

798
00:40:31,394 --> 00:40:36,234
Speaker 1: the case for why they are complicit in Epstein world,

799
00:40:36,794 --> 00:40:38,873
Speaker 1: and then you can decide whether you think that that's

800
00:40:38,914 --> 00:40:39,473
Speaker 1: fair or not.

801
00:40:39,714 --> 00:40:40,953
Speaker 3: Okay, are you ready really?

802
00:40:40,994 --> 00:40:44,194
Speaker 4: Because because from what I've seen, they're named in some

803
00:40:44,274 --> 00:40:47,433
Speaker 4: of the emails and naughty, naughty parents.

804
00:40:47,514 --> 00:40:49,634
Speaker 1: Can you get me? No, there's certainly that, But here

805
00:40:49,674 --> 00:40:53,234
Speaker 1: are some points against him. Beatrice was involved in media

806
00:40:53,274 --> 00:40:56,913
Speaker 1: management discussions about how Fergie's relationship with Epstein should be

807
00:40:56,914 --> 00:41:00,554
Speaker 1: framed like in these emails. That's the first point. Epstein

808
00:41:00,594 --> 00:41:03,194
Speaker 1: paid for flights for the sisters to go to Miami

809
00:41:03,354 --> 00:41:06,274
Speaker 1: to visit him with their mother the week after he

810
00:41:06,314 --> 00:41:09,393
Speaker 1: was released from princes in two thousand and nine, and

811
00:41:09,474 --> 00:41:12,834
Speaker 1: they were twenty one when they took those flights. And

812
00:41:12,874 --> 00:41:16,114
Speaker 1: then the royalist Tom Sykes, that's a substack that we

813
00:41:16,154 --> 00:41:18,274
Speaker 1: all love here at Mum and Me Out reported last

814
00:41:18,354 --> 00:41:22,393
Speaker 1: year that William wanted the two girls to submit their

815
00:41:22,434 --> 00:41:25,714
Speaker 1: finances to an ethical forensic accountant who could go through

816
00:41:25,754 --> 00:41:28,914
Speaker 1: and make sure that their lavish lifestyle hadn't been funded

817
00:41:28,914 --> 00:41:34,354
Speaker 1: by anything epsteiny, and they declined to submit to that audit.

818
00:41:34,954 --> 00:41:38,354
Speaker 1: So my question is, do you think it's fair for

819
00:41:38,434 --> 00:41:40,914
Speaker 1: them to be getting this kind of treatment from William

820
00:41:41,114 --> 00:41:43,634
Speaker 1: or are we doing that thing we always do where

821
00:41:43,634 --> 00:41:48,114
Speaker 1: we blame the women around bad men for the man sins.

822
00:41:48,234 --> 00:41:53,234
Speaker 4: It's such a good point because I have read that

823
00:41:53,474 --> 00:41:57,754
Speaker 4: the royal ascot thing is coming from William and Charles,

824
00:41:57,794 --> 00:42:01,114
Speaker 4: basically probably William being like, we don't want to be

825
00:42:01,154 --> 00:42:02,114
Speaker 4: photographed with them.

826
00:42:02,554 --> 00:42:03,953
Speaker 3: We don't.

827
00:42:04,314 --> 00:42:08,473
Speaker 4: It's not about the carriage, it's about the photos. So

828
00:42:08,594 --> 00:42:12,874
Speaker 4: that's why they are explicitly excluded from this particular royal,

829
00:42:13,034 --> 00:42:17,074
Speaker 4: very public, royal event. I can't decide because on the

830
00:42:17,154 --> 00:42:20,873
Speaker 4: one hand, I am very sympathetic to the argument that

831
00:42:21,474 --> 00:42:25,794
Speaker 4: it is women who seem to bear the cost when

832
00:42:26,394 --> 00:42:28,994
Speaker 4: we almost can't get men to like, we have no

833
00:42:29,314 --> 00:42:31,634
Speaker 4: control over the legal process, so we don't really know

834
00:42:31,714 --> 00:42:35,514
Speaker 4: what to do with Andrew, but we can shame women,

835
00:42:35,674 --> 00:42:40,314
Speaker 4: and there's a very very long history of shaming women

836
00:42:40,834 --> 00:42:46,234
Speaker 4: for consorting with evil or men who have done the

837
00:42:46,274 --> 00:42:49,874
Speaker 4: rock scene. And the thing that makes it more complicated, though,

838
00:42:50,474 --> 00:42:54,234
Speaker 4: is exactly as you say that there is evidence that

839
00:42:54,714 --> 00:42:58,874
Speaker 4: it's been more than kind of proximity to the issue.

840
00:42:58,874 --> 00:43:03,674
Speaker 3: It's been more than that. And Fergie is naughty, naughty.

841
00:43:03,434 --> 00:43:07,274
Speaker 4: Nomy because she pretended like she was kind of kind

842
00:43:07,314 --> 00:43:09,474
Speaker 4: of collateral damage and all of this, that she didn't

843
00:43:09,514 --> 00:43:12,714
Speaker 4: have any kind of personal relationship. And those emails are

844
00:43:12,954 --> 00:43:16,913
Speaker 4: so damning. The fact that in twenty ten, which as

845
00:43:16,954 --> 00:43:21,074
Speaker 4: you say, was after Jeffrey Epstein had been convicted of

846
00:43:21,154 --> 00:43:24,474
Speaker 4: soliciting a minor for prostitution, she wrote an email just

847
00:43:24,514 --> 00:43:27,554
Speaker 4: waiting for usueny to come back from a shagging weekend,

848
00:43:27,994 --> 00:43:30,314
Speaker 4: like it's just bloody weird.

849
00:43:30,674 --> 00:43:32,954
Speaker 2: Well, it's worse than that. I mean, I think personally,

850
00:43:33,034 --> 00:43:35,594
Speaker 2: I don't think the princesses are complicit. I think that

851
00:43:35,714 --> 00:43:38,274
Speaker 2: their products of their parents and their parents by all

852
00:43:38,314 --> 00:43:43,554
Speaker 2: accounts are awful. I mean, they just are. Like Fergie

853
00:43:43,954 --> 00:43:47,474
Speaker 2: has been exposed by these emails as being incredibly chummy

854
00:43:47,474 --> 00:43:49,474
Speaker 2: with Epstein and getting him to pay for things, asking

855
00:43:49,554 --> 00:43:52,354
Speaker 2: him for work, getting and flirting with him and just

856
00:43:52,474 --> 00:43:55,114
Speaker 2: generally being awful. But that's not even the first time

857
00:43:55,234 --> 00:43:58,154
Speaker 2: she's been done before, for selling access to the royals,

858
00:43:58,194 --> 00:44:01,114
Speaker 2: for making all kind of unsavory business deals. So I

859
00:44:01,154 --> 00:44:03,913
Speaker 2: think that the princesses are products of their parents and

860
00:44:03,954 --> 00:44:07,954
Speaker 2: it's not their fault. Right, however, that they are fully

861
00:44:07,994 --> 00:44:11,674
Speaker 2: grown women in their thirties with husbands and children and

862
00:44:11,874 --> 00:44:16,394
Speaker 2: lives and jobs. They could take a stand and distance themselves.

863
00:44:16,674 --> 00:44:18,754
Speaker 2: Could they could hand their titles back. They'd still have

864
00:44:18,794 --> 00:44:20,913
Speaker 2: a nice life. They'd still be, you know, living in

865
00:44:20,954 --> 00:44:24,634
Speaker 2: Portugal and the Cotswolds and whatever. And they could choose

866
00:44:24,994 --> 00:44:28,553
Speaker 2: to distance, and maybe they will in time, and maybe

867
00:44:28,594 --> 00:44:31,393
Speaker 2: they won't. But I think that it's fair enough. If

868
00:44:31,474 --> 00:44:33,794
Speaker 2: I was William, I'd probably be doing the same. I'd

869
00:44:33,794 --> 00:44:35,794
Speaker 2: be saying, it's not that I don't love you, cousins,

870
00:44:35,874 --> 00:44:40,314
Speaker 2: but every time I'm photographed with you, this whole thing

871
00:44:40,354 --> 00:44:42,714
Speaker 2: is coming back. And if William wants anything, it's four

872
00:44:42,714 --> 00:44:45,154
Speaker 2: in five or ten years, or whenever the time comes.

873
00:44:45,394 --> 00:44:48,234
Speaker 2: He doesn't want to still be dealing with the Andrew mess.

874
00:44:48,394 --> 00:44:50,834
Speaker 1: I am getting the vibe that William is just like

875
00:44:51,034 --> 00:44:54,034
Speaker 1: he is strapped in Ready to Go, he has completely

876
00:44:54,114 --> 00:44:57,514
Speaker 1: dismissed his father's ability to contain the scandal. Charles was

877
00:44:57,514 --> 00:44:59,993
Speaker 1: willing to cut them some slack. He was, as you mentioned,

878
00:45:00,034 --> 00:45:02,674
Speaker 1: he was prepared to be photographed with the girls, and

879
00:45:02,754 --> 00:45:05,194
Speaker 1: he in fact even gave one of them a very

880
00:45:05,234 --> 00:45:07,514
Speaker 1: coveted patronship that had been a so he did with

881
00:45:07,554 --> 00:45:10,354
Speaker 1: Prince Philip after he had stripped Andrew of his titles.

882
00:45:10,794 --> 00:45:14,074
Speaker 1: But William clearly does not think that halfway houses are

883
00:45:14,074 --> 00:45:16,154
Speaker 1: going to work anymore. He is in it to win

884
00:45:16,194 --> 00:45:17,433
Speaker 1: it and to survive, right.

885
00:45:17,554 --> 00:45:19,594
Speaker 2: I think he's right. I think he's right. I think

886
00:45:19,594 --> 00:45:21,154
Speaker 2: we talked about this a little bit last week. But

887
00:45:21,234 --> 00:45:25,274
Speaker 2: I think that the public patients for you know, like

888
00:45:25,314 --> 00:45:27,274
Speaker 2: the Royals doing this thing that they always do, where

889
00:45:27,274 --> 00:45:29,873
Speaker 2: they go, we won't do anything, and we'll just wait

890
00:45:29,914 --> 00:45:31,634
Speaker 2: and it'll go away, and then it doesn't go away,

891
00:45:31,674 --> 00:45:33,554
Speaker 2: and so then they do something like Charles the way

892
00:45:33,594 --> 00:45:36,314
Speaker 2: that it took him years and all these steps to

893
00:45:36,394 --> 00:45:39,674
Speaker 2: finally distance himself properly from Andrew, to finally make Andrew

894
00:45:39,954 --> 00:45:42,354
Speaker 2: get out of the Royal House, give back his titles,

895
00:45:42,874 --> 00:45:45,794
Speaker 2: years of baby steps towards it. People want to see

896
00:45:45,834 --> 00:45:49,154
Speaker 2: actual accountability and even though it's kind of silly, like

897
00:45:49,194 --> 00:45:51,634
Speaker 2: do these ladies get to call themselves princesses or not?

898
00:45:51,754 --> 00:45:54,913
Speaker 2: Like I think that for William, he's like everybody's sick

899
00:45:54,914 --> 00:45:56,834
Speaker 2: of us, we need to make some real change. I

900
00:45:56,834 --> 00:45:59,994
Speaker 2: think he's right, and it's not mean about them or

901
00:46:00,034 --> 00:46:02,513
Speaker 2: being negative about them. I don't really think that they

902
00:46:02,514 --> 00:46:04,594
Speaker 2: have much choice in the matter of who they are

903
00:46:04,634 --> 00:46:07,354
Speaker 2: and who their parents are. But the job in and

904
00:46:07,794 --> 00:46:10,834
Speaker 2: in William's eyes is let's try and save this thing.

905
00:46:11,074 --> 00:46:14,553
Speaker 4: I'm fascinated by the question of what Fergie's getting. Oh yes,

906
00:46:14,594 --> 00:46:17,954
Speaker 4: because there was the best article by Kate Halfpenny in

907
00:46:18,114 --> 00:46:23,234
Speaker 4: Sidney Morning Herald and she was arguing that Fergie is

908
00:46:23,314 --> 00:46:27,034
Speaker 4: now a woman who has no shame, she has nothing.

909
00:46:26,794 --> 00:46:28,394
Speaker 3: To lose, and she's broke.

910
00:46:29,474 --> 00:46:33,714
Speaker 4: And so the argument was, is she more dangerous to

911
00:46:34,394 --> 00:46:38,473
Speaker 4: the Windsor's reputation right now than Andrew because she could

912
00:46:38,514 --> 00:46:42,274
Speaker 4: write a tell all book about all of this. And

913
00:46:42,314 --> 00:46:47,194
Speaker 4: I reckon what Fergie does will be a big thing

914
00:46:47,394 --> 00:46:49,794
Speaker 4: for the girls, for her daughter.

915
00:46:49,874 --> 00:46:52,234
Speaker 2: That's like, that's the question. She has nothing to lose

916
00:46:52,314 --> 00:46:56,433
Speaker 2: except their respect exactly if she decides to. Because I

917
00:46:56,514 --> 00:46:59,274
Speaker 2: was very excited by this article too, Claire. I was like, yes, Kate,

918
00:46:59,314 --> 00:47:01,194
Speaker 2: they might well if she writes a tell all books.

919
00:47:01,234 --> 00:47:03,514
Speaker 2: She knows a lot about a lot of stuff that

920
00:47:03,554 --> 00:47:05,433
Speaker 2: has gone on in that family, and she hasn't been

921
00:47:05,474 --> 00:47:07,873
Speaker 2: exactly discreet in the past, to be honest. But she

922
00:47:07,914 --> 00:47:09,913
Speaker 2: could go full born now that she feels that she's

923
00:47:09,954 --> 00:47:13,434
Speaker 2: on the outside, but that would completely sink her daughters.

924
00:47:13,554 --> 00:47:15,474
Speaker 2: So is she going to do that or not? Personally,

925
00:47:15,514 --> 00:47:16,314
Speaker 2: I would like to read.

926
00:47:16,194 --> 00:47:18,514
Speaker 4: That we don't know what her relationship is like with

927
00:47:18,554 --> 00:47:21,074
Speaker 4: her daughters. We don't know if maybe they're like, go

928
00:47:21,274 --> 00:47:21,873
Speaker 4: for it, mum.

929
00:47:22,034 --> 00:47:23,754
Speaker 2: They like her, By the way, I listened to a

930
00:47:23,794 --> 00:47:25,913
Speaker 2: podcast interview with them when they went on about what

931
00:47:25,914 --> 00:47:28,154
Speaker 2: a lovely mother she was, but that was before Yeah.

932
00:47:28,314 --> 00:47:30,553
Speaker 3: See, maybe they're like, you're a little bit bad shit.

933
00:47:30,674 --> 00:47:31,393
Speaker 3: Go do your thing.

934
00:47:31,594 --> 00:47:34,114
Speaker 1: But from the author of Budgie the Helicopter.

935
00:47:35,354 --> 00:47:38,754
Speaker 2: Exactly, she's got at the guy, that guy who wrote

936
00:47:38,794 --> 00:47:41,394
Speaker 2: the Harry books. She needs to get Jay Mohring up, Yeah,

937
00:47:41,434 --> 00:47:42,634
Speaker 2: to ghost write a biography.

938
00:47:42,634 --> 00:47:46,074
Speaker 4: It would be so great, Yes, and just a fun little

939
00:47:46,074 --> 00:47:49,154
Speaker 4: tidbit that I really hope happens. I didn't know that

940
00:47:49,194 --> 00:47:51,514
Speaker 4: Fergie's sister lives on the New South Wales Central Coast,

941
00:47:52,234 --> 00:47:55,114
Speaker 4: and so I would like Fergie to find refuge in

942
00:47:55,114 --> 00:47:57,354
Speaker 4: Australia just for the sixt few minutes interview.

943
00:47:57,434 --> 00:48:00,354
Speaker 3: That's it, that's all. I just need to see.

944
00:48:00,434 --> 00:48:02,594
Speaker 2: The only thing about the book, because I was very

945
00:48:02,634 --> 00:48:05,674
Speaker 2: excited about that, and then I just thought what publishing

946
00:48:05,794 --> 00:48:08,834
Speaker 2: house would want to be seen to be paying her

947
00:48:08,914 --> 00:48:11,274
Speaker 2: a lot of money and the moment with the Epstein

948
00:48:11,394 --> 00:48:14,194
Speaker 2: ties like, I think that would probably be a bad look,

949
00:48:14,194 --> 00:48:17,873
Speaker 2: wouldn't it. She could donate it all to some kind

950
00:48:17,914 --> 00:48:20,714
Speaker 2: of there's no reason to do it so for.

951
00:48:20,754 --> 00:48:23,114
Speaker 3: Her, Yeah, but she could lie. She's pretty good at lying.

952
00:48:23,594 --> 00:48:27,354
Speaker 1: I'm also laughing about the When I next go out

953
00:48:27,394 --> 00:48:30,393
Speaker 1: for a couple of spicy margs, I'm gonna just call

954
00:48:30,434 --> 00:48:35,594
Speaker 1: myself a tequila embassador. The tequila ambassador.

955
00:48:35,354 --> 00:48:41,234
Speaker 4: I make good money. Here's a not so fun fact

956
00:48:41,634 --> 00:48:44,714
Speaker 4: for our Monday. Did you know that the music you

957
00:48:44,794 --> 00:48:48,953
Speaker 4: listen to when you're driving can significantly affect your performance

958
00:48:49,354 --> 00:48:53,074
Speaker 4: and that twenty five percent of traffic accidents are linked

959
00:48:53,274 --> 00:48:58,714
Speaker 4: to listening to music. So apparently, fast, loud music can

960
00:48:58,754 --> 00:49:02,553
Speaker 4: be more distracting than most drivers realize. Holly, I'm looking

961
00:49:02,554 --> 00:49:05,114
Speaker 4: at you with your bad, bunny.

962
00:49:04,234 --> 00:49:06,914
Speaker 2: I'm basically sorcery.

963
00:49:07,314 --> 00:49:08,794
Speaker 5: I know, I know.

964
00:49:09,874 --> 00:49:15,553
Speaker 4: High tempo tracks apparently stimulate the nervous system and they

965
00:49:15,954 --> 00:49:19,714
Speaker 4: raise your heart rate and trigger adrenaline. And there's a

966
00:49:19,754 --> 00:49:24,873
Speaker 4: well documented psychological effect known as rhythmic entrainment, and it

967
00:49:24,994 --> 00:49:28,873
Speaker 4: means that you unconsciously synchronize your behavior to a beat.

968
00:49:29,354 --> 00:49:32,433
Speaker 4: So if you're listening to a really high tempo song,

969
00:49:32,514 --> 00:49:33,634
Speaker 4: you're more likely to speed.

970
00:49:33,714 --> 00:49:35,834
Speaker 1: Doesn't that imply that the person listening is a good

971
00:49:35,914 --> 00:49:36,634
Speaker 1: dancer though?

972
00:49:37,154 --> 00:49:39,433
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it has any sense of rhythm, So I

973
00:49:39,434 --> 00:49:42,433
Speaker 4: think I'm safe because I don't have any sense of

974
00:49:42,474 --> 00:49:44,914
Speaker 4: what the beat is. So when a song has a

975
00:49:45,034 --> 00:49:51,274
Speaker 4: rapid tempo, not only may drivers drive faster to the music,

976
00:49:51,754 --> 00:49:55,954
Speaker 4: but they might also engage in harsher breaking or sudden

977
00:49:56,154 --> 00:49:56,634
Speaker 4: lane chain.

978
00:49:56,754 --> 00:49:58,354
Speaker 2: So what kind of songs that we're talking about that

979
00:49:58,394 --> 00:49:59,393
Speaker 2: we shouldn't be driving to.

980
00:49:59,874 --> 00:50:03,834
Speaker 4: Well, a company called Hallo Millions analyze the top one

981
00:50:03,914 --> 00:50:06,754
Speaker 4: hundred most stream songs on Spotify and then they ranked

982
00:50:06,794 --> 00:50:09,554
Speaker 4: the one at the naughtiest and the most likely to,

983
00:50:09,794 --> 00:50:12,634
Speaker 4: you know, result in some fines. So I'm going to

984
00:50:12,714 --> 00:50:14,674
Speaker 4: do the top five and you tell me if you're

985
00:50:14,674 --> 00:50:18,873
Speaker 4: surprised song Number five, There's Nothing holding Me Back by

986
00:50:18,914 --> 00:50:19,433
Speaker 4: Sean Bend.

987
00:50:21,434 --> 00:50:26,234
Speaker 3: You know, there's nothing holding me back? And I just think,

988
00:50:26,954 --> 00:50:29,994
Speaker 3: such a little baby faced boy. He doesn't mean, he

989
00:50:30,074 --> 00:50:31,194
Speaker 3: doesn't mean to create.

990
00:50:31,874 --> 00:50:36,913
Speaker 1: Holding me Back is like a Trolls movie. I Know Me.

991
00:50:37,674 --> 00:50:42,234
Speaker 4: Number four Don't Start Now by Daly Godess Doer.

992
00:50:42,834 --> 00:50:47,194
Speaker 1: She's a great driver. I can just picture her driving absolutely.

993
00:50:47,954 --> 00:50:51,074
Speaker 3: Number three is Can't hold Us by Maclamo.

994
00:50:51,234 --> 00:50:53,834
Speaker 1: This made me giggle because Macklemore is just such a

995
00:50:54,154 --> 00:50:57,594
Speaker 1: ridiculous figuration, the idea that he's also now responsible for

996
00:50:57,634 --> 00:50:59,074
Speaker 1: traffic less.

997
00:51:00,114 --> 00:51:02,994
Speaker 3: Number two Believer by Imagine Dragon.

998
00:51:03,114 --> 00:51:05,274
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, every ten year old boy's favorite fir.

999
00:51:06,314 --> 00:51:09,954
Speaker 2: And you wonder, I wonder why happened through a big

1000
00:51:09,994 --> 00:51:12,554
Speaker 2: imagine Dragon dragons in this economy?

1001
00:51:12,794 --> 00:51:19,074
Speaker 4: And number one Lose Yourself You yeah, and it just

1002
00:51:19,194 --> 00:51:22,473
Speaker 4: really says everything beats by a minute hundred seventy one.

1003
00:51:22,834 --> 00:51:24,074
Speaker 3: That songs really.

1004
00:51:23,954 --> 00:51:26,794
Speaker 1: Fine to be listened to. Why you were driving angrily?

1005
00:51:26,994 --> 00:51:27,154
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1006
00:51:27,434 --> 00:51:30,154
Speaker 4: Yeah, And like the scene in a movie where you're

1007
00:51:30,234 --> 00:51:32,194
Speaker 4: driving angrily and then a truck.

1008
00:51:32,034 --> 00:51:35,594
Speaker 1: Hits you, yes, as you shout the lines Mom's spagette.

1009
00:51:35,154 --> 00:51:36,794
Speaker 2: Yeah, all over the road.

1010
00:51:36,874 --> 00:51:38,914
Speaker 1: Do you know that he started a restaurant in Detroit

1011
00:51:38,954 --> 00:51:41,874
Speaker 1: where he's from, called Mom's Spaghetti. That's a great idea.

1012
00:51:41,874 --> 00:51:43,954
Speaker 2: I would go there. I sing when I'm driving. I

1013
00:51:43,994 --> 00:51:47,194
Speaker 2: sing loudly and aggressively to anything at all, and I

1014
00:51:47,234 --> 00:51:48,194
Speaker 2: find it keeps me awake.

1015
00:51:48,274 --> 00:51:51,234
Speaker 3: So I dispute in terms of tempo.

1016
00:51:51,434 --> 00:51:55,033
Speaker 4: I'm worried because I listened to the Hamilton soundtrack from

1017
00:51:55,034 --> 00:51:57,393
Speaker 4: start to finish, and I think the tempo again, I

1018
00:51:57,474 --> 00:52:00,234
Speaker 4: know nothing about music, but it does seem fast.

1019
00:52:00,554 --> 00:52:04,514
Speaker 2: But because you're singing along, it keeps you like focused, Claire.

1020
00:52:04,154 --> 00:52:06,794
Speaker 1: Do you know that that came out like many years ago?

1021
00:52:07,434 --> 00:52:07,714
Speaker 2: Have you?

1022
00:52:07,994 --> 00:52:11,274
Speaker 1: What about refreshing your soundtrack in the current nostalgia?

1023
00:52:11,874 --> 00:52:14,154
Speaker 3: I can't get into anything else.

1024
00:52:14,234 --> 00:52:18,074
Speaker 2: It's really Gotstalia of the American Revolution.

1025
00:52:18,394 --> 00:52:19,474
Speaker 3: It's really strange.

1026
00:52:19,514 --> 00:52:22,794
Speaker 4: But I reckon the next iteration of this needs to

1027
00:52:22,834 --> 00:52:23,674
Speaker 4: be podcasts.

1028
00:52:23,954 --> 00:52:25,274
Speaker 3: What podcasts is good to.

1029
00:52:25,234 --> 00:52:28,194
Speaker 4: Listen to when we're driving, obviously, and what podcasts aren't

1030
00:52:28,234 --> 00:52:30,554
Speaker 4: because true crime they sounds so bad. But a lot

1031
00:52:30,594 --> 00:52:32,514
Speaker 4: of true crime podcasts make me sleepy.

1032
00:52:32,594 --> 00:52:35,794
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know why. It's like the monotone.

1033
00:52:36,154 --> 00:52:39,594
Speaker 4: It's like just one voice and before I know it,

1034
00:52:39,634 --> 00:52:41,714
Speaker 4: I'm like having my sleeps at the wheel.

1035
00:52:41,474 --> 00:52:44,394
Speaker 2: Because I drive a long way to home and work often.

1036
00:52:44,594 --> 00:52:47,314
Speaker 2: I have to be careful with my podcast listening for

1037
00:52:47,314 --> 00:52:50,034
Speaker 2: that very reason is that if they're too soothing.

1038
00:52:50,074 --> 00:52:51,634
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're looking at you as client.

1039
00:52:52,274 --> 00:52:53,594
Speaker 2: I can't be doing that.

1040
00:52:53,794 --> 00:52:54,434
Speaker 3: Keep me away.

1041
00:52:54,594 --> 00:52:57,993
Speaker 2: I need more, I need bad money. That's all we've

1042
00:52:58,034 --> 00:53:00,034
Speaker 2: got time for on today's show. Thank you very much,

1043
00:53:00,074 --> 00:53:01,834
Speaker 2: Chlas Stevens. That was your first show feeling.

1044
00:53:03,234 --> 00:53:04,393
Speaker 3: I know so good to.

1045
00:53:04,394 --> 00:53:04,953
Speaker 2: Have you here.

1046
00:53:05,034 --> 00:53:05,754
Speaker 3: Oh, thank you.

1047
00:53:05,874 --> 00:53:08,074
Speaker 1: If you are changing lanes, indicate.

1048
00:53:07,994 --> 00:53:11,954
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely great tit check your blind spot. But we

1049
00:53:12,034 --> 00:53:14,873
Speaker 2: will be back in your ears tomorrow. Thank you to

1050
00:53:14,954 --> 00:53:24,354
Speaker 2: our brilliant team for putting this together. Goodbye bye, Mamma.

1051
00:53:24,434 --> 00:53:27,234
Speaker 2: Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which

1052
00:53:27,274 --> 00:53:28,834
Speaker 2: we've recorded this podcast.