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Speaker 1: So you're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and borders

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 1: From Mamma Mia. Welcome to the Spill your daily pop

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Speaker 1: culture fix. I'm em Vernon and I'm Laura Brodneck and

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Speaker 1: god I love these episodes. We are doing a brutally

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Speaker 1: honest review of this So if you're confused, this was

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Speaker 1: this season's theme song. Yes, we have talked about how

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Speaker 1: it's a bit different to the last two seasons. That's

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Speaker 1: a huge feud about it, and then you can read,

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Speaker 1: so do that in your own time, because we are

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Speaker 1: doing a broadly honest review of season three of The

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Speaker 1: White Lotus.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and if you're new to our brudly honest review series,

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Speaker 2: then this is the episode where we deep dive on

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Speaker 2: the biggest movie or TV show that just come out

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Speaker 2: this week. So there are going to be spoilers Forlore.

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Speaker 2: But also if you've gotten to this point of the

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Speaker 2: week and you don't know how the White Lottue ends,

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Speaker 2: you must just be living in like a cave under

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Speaker 2: a mountain surrounded by cement, because there's no way, there's

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Speaker 2: no way to hide from that. But yes, we're going

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Speaker 2: to be going deep on spoilers, behind the scenes facts,

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Speaker 2: some unpopular opinions on how the show ended and how

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Speaker 2: the characters worked, all that sort of stuff. We haven't

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Speaker 2: discussed anything yet, so each other's opinions are going to

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Speaker 2: be a surprise. So that's what we're getting into. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: so this season of The White Lotus was set in Thailand.

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Speaker 2: There was almost like a bit of a bidding war

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Speaker 2: between a lot of countries of where The White Lotus

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Speaker 2: would be set because a lot of countries were scouted

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Speaker 2: for different sets and locations. Thailand sort of gave them

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Speaker 2: like quite a big tax break and also offered some

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Speaker 2: incentive through their tourism partners. Even with that, though, it

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Speaker 2: still ended up being the most expensive season of The

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Speaker 2: White Lotus yet interesting, which I find yet very interesting.

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Speaker 1: Maybe next season we can do like White Lotus and

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Speaker 1: Barren Bay.

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Speaker 2: That would be the most expensive season. Also, you're going

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Speaker 2: to be so expensive for the cast because Walter Goggins,

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Speaker 2: who plays Rick, was saying that he didn't realize how

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Speaker 2: expensive it would for him to be personally on The

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Speaker 2: White Lotus because they obviously fly you there to shoot

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Speaker 2: the show, and they pay for your hotel room because

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Speaker 2: you live in the hotel that you filled the show at.

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Speaker 2: But the casts have to pay for all their incidental

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Speaker 2: So at the end of like the first month of filming,

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Speaker 2: they all got their room bills and he was like, literally,

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Speaker 2: I'm losing money because he got too many like salted

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Speaker 2: cashews and things and didn't realize how expensive they were.

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Speaker 1: So funny and they were all on the same salary

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Speaker 1: and they were all non negotiable salaries.

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Speaker 2: Well exactly, that's what Mike White the creator sets up

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Speaker 2: when he made the White Lotus, is that every single

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Speaker 2: person has to audition and then they all also paid

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Speaker 2: the same salary. And can you guess who had a

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Speaker 2: problem with that MESSI behind the scenes best friend Jason Isaacs.

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Speaker 1: I was like, Jason, out of everyone there, you're not

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Speaker 1: getting paid more.

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Speaker 2: He thought, oh no, so if you miss your day's episode.

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Speaker 2: We were talking about some of the feuds that have

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Speaker 2: happened behind the White Loaders because we can't get into

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Speaker 2: a lot of the he would just he would love

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Speaker 2: to tell you everything that happened. So we talked yesterday

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Speaker 2: about how he was sort of talking about feuds and

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Speaker 2: making and he's been very messy behind the scenes. But

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Speaker 2: he was saying that he found it very strange that

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Speaker 2: he had to audition, because he said, look, I don't

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Speaker 2: want to have not seen all eight Harry Potter films. No,

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Speaker 2: that's pretty much what he said, because he said, look,

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Speaker 2: I don't want to get too big for my boots.

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Speaker 2: But really, Mike, I have to meet with a casting director.

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Speaker 2: I walked through Times Square and my face was on

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Speaker 2: like five billboards talking about Harry Potter days obviously. So anyway,

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Speaker 2: what's also the interesting thing about this third season of

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Speaker 2: The White Loaders is that Mike White has said the

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Speaker 2: first season was to highlight money and wealth. The second

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Speaker 2: season was to highlight sex and like the power it

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Speaker 2: can give and how it can shape relationships and money

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Speaker 2: and wealth. Yes, exactly. I mean that's just always given.

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Speaker 2: And this third season was meant to be a kind

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Speaker 2: of a satirical look at spirituality. But also how like,

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Speaker 2: especially like white Western people can go and like take

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Speaker 2: over Eastern religion, take the wrong message for her and

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Speaker 2: make it for themselves, which we particularly see with I

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Speaker 2: think the Rightliff family, but all of them to its extent.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I really like that messaging because as I was

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Speaker 1: reading a lot of reviews on this and largely a

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Speaker 1: lot of people don't like this season. Personally, it was

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Speaker 1: my favorite season of all three. Yeah, min three to

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Speaker 1: two one, oh.

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Speaker 2: Mine's two one three. So like the other girls, I

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Speaker 2: hate you.

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Speaker 1: This might be a very unpopular opinion.

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Speaker 2: That's okay. This is a safe space. Only diehard spillers

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Speaker 2: listened to it.

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Speaker 1: I was looking on socials, a lot of people were

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Speaker 1: quite vocal about how much they don't like this season,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's mainly because this season is so

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Speaker 1: reflective of a particular class in society that's also an

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Speaker 1: achievable class. And exactly what you said. Season one was

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Speaker 1: about money and wealth. That was a class that I

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Speaker 1: feel like was so unachievable. But this class people going

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Speaker 1: to resort to Thailand still so expensive. You still have

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Speaker 1: to have a certain amount of privilege to be able

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Speaker 1: to do that, but people can still do that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people who watched the

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Speaker 1: season could see some certain reflections of themselves and just

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Speaker 1: hated it.

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Speaker 2: This is why I'm just going to say a lot

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Speaker 2: of white millennial women like me get really angry at

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Speaker 2: shows like Emily in Paris, or Sex and the City,

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Speaker 2: or the ball type, because it's like it's too close

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Speaker 2: to the mirror, is too close these women that you hate,

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Speaker 2: like it's me. I also just think on that, just

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Speaker 2: to touch on sort of like a lot of people

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Speaker 2: who didn't like this season or who thought it was

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Speaker 2: really anti climactic. A lot of the criticism was anti climactic,

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Speaker 2: too slow, and the finale was unsatisfying because they thought

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Speaker 2: it was too many loose threads. And I thought a

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Speaker 2: lot about that. Obviously, there were some storylines that feel

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Speaker 2: like they need more attention, or you know, some areas

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Speaker 2: where you think, oh, I feel like they dropped the

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Speaker 2: ball there. But I think overall, people are just watching

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Speaker 2: the show the wrong way at the moment, because they're

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Speaker 2: watching it like it's this big murder mystery with all

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Speaker 2: these secret cls loose and every single scene has something

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Speaker 2: hid in the background. It all means to you like

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Speaker 2: everyone's watching like they're a detective. But it's not a

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Speaker 2: murder mystery. It's a character study. And I think with

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Speaker 2: the first season, no one knew what to expect, and

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Speaker 2: this thing that was made during a pandemic, and the

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Speaker 2: cast were locked away and it just came on to

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Speaker 2: our screens. We just watched it that way, and we

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Speaker 2: were just so into all these different character dynamics. And

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Speaker 2: season two the mystery heated up a little bit. But

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Speaker 2: season three everyone came in being like, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: solve the mystery in the first episode, and it's like

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Speaker 2: it's not about that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's never a mystery, like you kind of

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Speaker 1: figure it out like as it's going. Yeah. The best

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Speaker 1: thing about when this series first came out is that

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Speaker 1: they did it so well with season one, where you

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Speaker 1: completely forget that someone's actually dead, like one of the

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Speaker 1: characters like someone's dead, And then because they stuck with

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Speaker 1: that theme for season two, it felt like it was

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Speaker 1: the ongoing thing that only everyone cared about. So after

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Speaker 1: every episode of season three, instead of what we were

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Speaker 1: doing for the last two seasons, where we were diving

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Speaker 1: in deep into each character and like what they wanted

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Speaker 1: and their floors and their secrets, every single episode, we

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Speaker 1: were just like, oh, I wonder if they're dead, like

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Speaker 1: if they're the person who.

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Speaker 2: Which is really annoying I agree, which I think also

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Speaker 2: a lot of people have just missed a lot of

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Speaker 2: the not everyone, but maybe just people who were screaming

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Speaker 2: the loudest online, which is always the case. I guess

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Speaker 2: people have missed a lot more of the nuances and

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Speaker 2: the character moments, and also just the freedom that comes

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Speaker 2: with having a show where you can just let the

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Speaker 2: characters go for a little bit. I got to interview

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Speaker 2: a few of the casts from They're in Australia, and

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Speaker 2: Leslie Bierb, who plays Kate, who's one of the three

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Speaker 2: blonde best friends, was saying that on the first day

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Speaker 2: of filming, because they went to film first the women,

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Speaker 2: they were just racing through all of their pages and

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Speaker 2: scenes trying to get it done, like we're doing this arrah.

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Speaker 2: And then Mike White had to come over and be like, okay, stop,

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Speaker 2: do it all again, because you guys are not like

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Speaker 2: you in your characters. You're not looking at the material properly.

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Speaker 2: He's like, it's about how you look at each other.

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Speaker 2: It's about like the silence. It's about like capturing one

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Speaker 2: of your faces in the background, and that's what we're

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Speaker 2: going to do. So they went back and refilmed everything

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Speaker 2: because so good of like how they're looking or what

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Speaker 2: they're not saying, and all that sort of stuff, and

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Speaker 2: I think they were saying that happened with a lot

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Speaker 2: of the characters. It was about those so kind of

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Speaker 2: meandering moments. And also Mike White was writing a lot

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Speaker 2: of the scripts like just before they started filming, like

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Speaker 2: he's still moving things and you know, taking things out

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Speaker 2: and that sort of stuff. So if you're still writing

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Speaker 2: when you're about to film, it can't be that intricative,

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Speaker 2: you know, like the color of the curtains means this.

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Speaker 2: And also so much ended up on the cutting room floor,

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Speaker 2: like whole storylines, whole scenes, Like we're really only seeing

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Speaker 2: a snippet of the story, but you've got to go

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Speaker 2: with that.

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Speaker 1: You have to go with that.

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Speaker 2: Okay. So now we've just got all that grievances out

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Speaker 2: of it, out of the way, getting onto a different

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Speaker 2: character group. So I think we've have to start with

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Speaker 2: the storyline that started in season one, and that is

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Speaker 2: Natasha Rothwell's character of Belinda Lindsay. So. She was the

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Speaker 2: SPA manager from The White Lotus season one in Hawaii.

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Speaker 2: We saw her pop up again in Thailand. She's on

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Speaker 2: like a work exchange and it's kind of as like

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Speaker 2: she's living her best life as much as she can

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Speaker 2: because she's on a holiday to an extent while also

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Speaker 2: getting all these different skills, and she's having just a

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Speaker 2: lovely time until Greg John Greese, who has been in

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Speaker 2: every season the White Loatus so far. I would almost

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Speaker 2: just love that if like every single White Lotus because

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Speaker 2: here's the big issue that everyone has with Greg. Now

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Speaker 2: Gary Hunt in the show. She's season, but he's Greg

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Speaker 2: to Gary, I want to do more. This is the

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Speaker 2: issue people have with him. People aren't that angry that

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Speaker 2: he had Tanya Jennifer Coolidge's character killed. They're angry that

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Speaker 2: he's stupid enough to commit a murder pretty much connected

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Speaker 2: to a White Lotus and he had his wife killed,

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Speaker 2: who was one of the White Lotus's highest tier returning members.

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Speaker 2: And then he goes into hiding while he's wanted for

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Speaker 2: questioning in relation to her mysterious death, and he hides

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Speaker 2: out at another White Lotus like up the Hill, but

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Speaker 2: he goes down to the White Lotus every night. That's

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Speaker 2: a terrible hiding spot. But it also is the arrogance

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Speaker 2: of like a rich white man.

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Speaker 1: I think it also shows that, like every character in

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Speaker 1: the White Lotus is so unlikable like every single one

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Speaker 1: of them. It's like if they were a person in

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Speaker 1: real life, you know, you would absolutely hate that person.

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Speaker 1: And it also shows that with these people, which we

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Speaker 1: actually do see in Belinda's character as the season goes on,

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Speaker 1: is actually kind of replicates Greg in a way where like,

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Speaker 1: once you get so much money, you just kind of

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Speaker 1: like turn into a person that you hated. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: just like kind of lose like all senses. Like he

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Speaker 1: doesn't think, right, He's just got so much money that

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Speaker 1: he doesn't need to.

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Speaker 2: Think yeah exactly, Yeah, you kind of forget that you're

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Speaker 2: not untouchable because of the money does feel like such

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Speaker 2: a big buffer, and like to an extent, it is

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Speaker 2: it's interesting you brought that up about her changing her

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Speaker 2: personality almost because well, first of all, he also said

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Speaker 2: that he came up with season three when he was

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Speaker 2: hospitalized for bronchitis and he was on like a breathing

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Speaker 2: machine and he had like a fever dream because he

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Speaker 2: was on a lot of drugs, and he woke up

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Speaker 2: the next morning with the White Loatus season three plot

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Speaker 2: in his head. And sometimes that shows oh, like all

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Speaker 2: the incestful moon.

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Speaker 1: Stuff, every like tortured, creative was like writing that down.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, go to hospital, go on breathing machine. But

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Speaker 2: his reason for bringing back Natasha Rothwell as Belinda is

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Speaker 2: that he got a lot of criticism for how her

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Speaker 2: storyline ended in season one and people were like, oh

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Speaker 2: my gosh, that poor woman, like you know, she has

248
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Speaker 2: no say she did this, you treated her so badly.

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Speaker 2: And his idea was that this character, who he thought

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Speaker 2: was like quite complex and layered, and then Natasha Rothwell's

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Speaker 2: portrayal of her was so good that everyone was kind

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Speaker 2: of just putting her into this like character list woman

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Speaker 2: of color who just lived to serve this white woman

254
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Speaker 2: and was like and once she was like chastised and

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Speaker 2: abandoned by her, her story was over and she couldn't

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Speaker 2: do anything, and she was like also going to be

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Speaker 2: this like moral compass, like she would never do any

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Speaker 2: say anything wrong because she's like this beacon of spirituality,

259
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Speaker 2: whereas she's like everyone else, she's just a normal character

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Speaker 2: who's like really layered. So bringing her back and having

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Speaker 2: her make the decision to take that huge amount of

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Speaker 2: money and not turn this man in for murder and

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Speaker 2: probably a thousand other bad things that he's done was

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Speaker 2: showing that like money can corrupt anyone.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I found that storyline very interesting because, like it

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Speaker 1: was a sad character in season one, but it also

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Speaker 1: I think spoke to the truth of exactly what those

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Speaker 1: workers would feel like getting glimmers of hope and then

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Speaker 1: just never having that follow through. And what I liked

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Speaker 1: about her character in season three was that it was

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Speaker 1: never like a white Night moment where someone like saved

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Speaker 1: her out of that. I mean someone did technically, but

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Speaker 1: like she pushed herself to do it, and Tanya did

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Speaker 1: treat her really badly and like that kind of I

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Speaker 1: guess conflict within herself and whether to accept the money

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Speaker 1: or not. But I also thought the five million specifically

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Speaker 1: was so interesting because five million is a lot of money,

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Speaker 1: especially if it's a character like Belinda. It's a lot

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Speaker 1: of money, but it's not enough money to retire. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And it's also too much money to like find the

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Speaker 1: thing you want to do and be happy about it,

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Speaker 1: Like you don't want to work, but you can't retire.

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Speaker 1: And it's that weird like Limbo a Mound, where I'm

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Speaker 1: just like, I don't know what she will do with that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I hadn't thought about that, and that's

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Speaker 2: tide of it that she can't retire. I'd be like, yeah,

287
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Speaker 2: I definitely retire in five million, not in Sydney, though,

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Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, what's kind of interesting about that? As

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Speaker 2: much as I'm saying to people like here like oh,

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Speaker 2: you guys thought she was this overly moral character and

291
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Speaker 2: all that sort of stuff, like I should just admit,

292
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Speaker 2: like so did I I was quite shocked in that

293
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Speaker 2: scene where she, you know, son Zion are sitting down

294
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Speaker 2: across from Greg and then negotiating, and when she gets

295
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Speaker 2: up and goes, we're not doing this. I was just

296
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Speaker 2: like I saw this coming, Like, this is a woman

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Speaker 2: of moral character, and she is gonna not just let

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Speaker 2: herself get corrupted. She's not letting her son that she's like,

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Speaker 2: it looks like she's raised him as a single mother,

300
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Speaker 2: be corrupted and she's not letting her son fall into this.

301
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Speaker 2: And she's getting them out of there and they're gonna leave.

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Speaker 2: And then I was like, oh my god, are you

303
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Speaker 2: gonna be allowed to leave? And then all of a

304
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Speaker 2: sudden plot twist, she was like, no, get more money

305
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Speaker 2: from him, Like this is what we do. We're playing

306
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Speaker 2: good cop, bad cop, and I thought that was it

307
00:14:05,064 --> 00:14:07,344
Speaker 2: almost played me like all those other people who had

308
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Speaker 2: just assumed she was kind of this like background character.

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Speaker 1: And then you see it at the end of like

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Speaker 1: the Tides turning right, like exactly what Tanya did to her.

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Speaker 1: She did to Portchai like she yeah, was said that

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Speaker 1: she wanted to start a business with him and like

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Speaker 1: move there and then they could like develop something. And

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Speaker 1: then she told him like, my circumstances have changed as

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Speaker 1: and like I've got a lot of money now and

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Speaker 1: I think i can do this on my own or

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Speaker 1: do something else with it instead of like being here

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Speaker 1: with you. And then when she's like crying on the

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Speaker 1: boat as she's going home, you see those tears in

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Speaker 1: a different lens of like it's almost like a relief

321
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Speaker 1: cry for her. And then if it was the other

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Speaker 1: way around, people would be like, oh, that's such a

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Speaker 1: sad character. But I really want her to come back

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Speaker 1: in another season as like a like a Tanya essentially

325
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Speaker 1: like a totally different and be the rich person. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I thought she was the least going to say to

327
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Speaker 2: him like things for the SAX. I know, I thought

328
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Speaker 2: they had a real connection. But money changes you. That's

329
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Speaker 2: what we learned, you.

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Speaker 1: Know what, me to go the exact same.

331
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Speaker 2: I'd also be getting a private boat out of there

332
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Speaker 2: and get.

333
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Speaker 1: Also four million on the private jet alone.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Also, everyone keeps saying like why did all

335
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Speaker 2: these people like Greg and like we'll get to it later,

336
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Speaker 2: but Rick and all this sort of stuff, they just

337
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Speaker 2: all keep returning to the White Lotus when they've done

338
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Speaker 2: the crime, it's like, get out of there. And it's

339
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Speaker 2: because they have this kind of privilege of like they

340
00:15:24,064 --> 00:15:27,624
Speaker 2: feel untouchable. Whereas Belinda, who has lived as a woman

341
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Speaker 2: of color and also having to like look after these

342
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Speaker 2: rich people on her job for many years, is has

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Speaker 2: a more realistic situation. She's like, we get the money,

344
00:15:34,264 --> 00:15:37,304
Speaker 2: she'd get out if you we're leaving right now. Love that, Okay,

345
00:15:37,344 --> 00:15:39,984
Speaker 2: moving on to a different storyline. I guess what really

346
00:15:40,024 --> 00:15:42,264
Speaker 2: works well on the White Lotus is that you have

347
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Speaker 2: all these rich guests and all their crazy storyline, but

348
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Speaker 2: then you always have some stuff at the White Lotus

349
00:15:46,584 --> 00:15:49,864
Speaker 2: who have like their storylines as well. And this season

350
00:15:50,064 --> 00:15:53,664
Speaker 2: real glimpse into staff life was with Mook and Guytok. Obviously,

351
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Speaker 2: with Mook, there was a lot of build up around

352
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Speaker 2: the performance because it was Lisa from Black Pink. I

353
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Speaker 2: know that's what her full name, but I just feel

354
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Speaker 2: like that's what we call her, right, Lisa from Black Pink.

355
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Speaker 2: She doesn't even need last name.

356
00:16:02,944 --> 00:16:03,984
Speaker 1: Yeah, she just goes by Lisa.

357
00:16:04,144 --> 00:16:06,024
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I mean exactly, you can just say Lisa

358
00:16:06,064 --> 00:16:09,544
Speaker 2: and we know who she's so arguably Jason Isaacs the

359
00:16:09,584 --> 00:16:11,224
Speaker 2: most famous in the cast.

360
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Speaker 1: What I love about Mook's character, which is also very

361
00:16:13,904 --> 00:16:16,504
Speaker 1: similar to Fabian, is that what White Lotus does really

362
00:16:16,504 --> 00:16:19,544
Speaker 1: well is that they introduce you to so many characters

363
00:16:19,944 --> 00:16:22,424
Speaker 1: and you have to pick in your head which ones

364
00:16:22,464 --> 00:16:26,024
Speaker 1: are going to be the ones that they run with storylines,

365
00:16:26,024 --> 00:16:28,864
Speaker 1: because like Mork and Fabian, they didn't have that big

366
00:16:28,904 --> 00:16:32,104
Speaker 1: of a storyline, but they were like such important side characters.

367
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Speaker 1: I mean, Fabian just wanted to sing.

368
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Speaker 2: I pushed in the water at the end. I was like,

369
00:16:36,624 --> 00:16:38,784
Speaker 2: leave him alone so much.

370
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Speaker 1: All that build up of him being so anxious to sing.

371
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Speaker 1: We see him sing for like three seconds, then we

372
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Speaker 1: go straight to the women arguing with each other. No

373
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Speaker 1: one was so funny.

374
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Speaker 2: You are.

375
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Speaker 1: Maybe he'll show up again, I think as the new

376
00:16:54,384 --> 00:16:58,344
Speaker 1: hotel manager. But Gaytalk also was such a brilliant character.

377
00:16:58,464 --> 00:17:01,504
Speaker 1: I feel like the first few episodes I saw Gaytalk,

378
00:17:01,544 --> 00:17:03,704
Speaker 1: I was like, because we knew someone was going to

379
00:17:03,744 --> 00:17:05,544
Speaker 1: die by a shooting because we see the shooting in

380
00:17:05,584 --> 00:17:08,424
Speaker 1: the first episode, and then after we introduced to Kaytalk,

381
00:17:08,464 --> 00:17:10,824
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, God, if he's read of God,

382
00:17:10,824 --> 00:17:11,664
Speaker 1: they're all gonna die.

383
00:17:11,904 --> 00:17:14,744
Speaker 2: Yeah, what a sweet man. He just wants to take

384
00:17:14,784 --> 00:17:16,784
Speaker 2: Mook on a date. And why wouldn't you, because as

385
00:17:16,864 --> 00:17:19,104
Speaker 2: Chelsea says, she's so pretty.

386
00:17:18,864 --> 00:17:22,944
Speaker 1: She's stunning. What did you think of their relationship? Because

387
00:17:22,984 --> 00:17:26,664
Speaker 1: I feel like I was really rooting for them as

388
00:17:26,744 --> 00:17:28,864
Speaker 1: like a couple, and then it felt like she was

389
00:17:28,904 --> 00:17:31,864
Speaker 1: a bit insidious with him. Well what do you mean

390
00:17:31,864 --> 00:17:34,264
Speaker 1: by that? Because I feel like when they went to

391
00:17:34,304 --> 00:17:36,624
Speaker 1: watch the fight together and she was kind of like

392
00:17:37,064 --> 00:17:39,944
Speaker 1: pushing him to be this person that he didn't want

393
00:17:39,984 --> 00:17:41,664
Speaker 1: to be. Yeah, and we see at the end that

394
00:17:41,704 --> 00:17:44,304
Speaker 1: he ends up being that person. And it's hard to

395
00:17:44,304 --> 00:17:46,624
Speaker 1: figure out whether he became that person obviously. Like what

396
00:17:46,664 --> 00:17:48,744
Speaker 1: I mean is like when he shot Rick, he became

397
00:17:48,824 --> 00:17:50,944
Speaker 1: that person. I don't know if it was for him

398
00:17:51,184 --> 00:17:52,984
Speaker 1: or to date her essentially.

399
00:17:53,264 --> 00:17:54,864
Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like a lot of it was

400
00:17:54,904 --> 00:17:56,864
Speaker 2: because he had this desire, Like he's in love with

401
00:17:56,904 --> 00:17:58,464
Speaker 2: her and he has this desire to be with her,

402
00:17:58,504 --> 00:18:00,024
Speaker 2: and so he was happy to like change and.

403
00:17:59,984 --> 00:18:01,504
Speaker 1: She wasn't giving him the time of day for her.

404
00:18:01,584 --> 00:18:03,504
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well that's why I was never like a super

405
00:18:03,544 --> 00:18:05,624
Speaker 2: into the romance because the way it's set up is

406
00:18:05,824 --> 00:18:08,224
Speaker 2: I love them both as characters, but it was never

407
00:18:08,304 --> 00:18:10,344
Speaker 2: super set up to be invested in their love story.

408
00:18:10,464 --> 00:18:12,824
Speaker 2: What I was thinking because when he first us are out,

409
00:18:12,944 --> 00:18:14,704
Speaker 2: it's almost like he's like, I know your brother and

410
00:18:14,704 --> 00:18:16,704
Speaker 2: I know your family, and he was kind of pushing

411
00:18:16,704 --> 00:18:18,184
Speaker 2: her to have lunch together, and you can see she

412
00:18:18,184 --> 00:18:19,784
Speaker 2: definitely just wants to be having lunch with her friends.

413
00:18:19,824 --> 00:18:23,944
Speaker 1: She literally giggled and said, you're also funny, and then away, Well,

414
00:18:23,984 --> 00:18:25,504
Speaker 1: this is like you've got to think of the context

415
00:18:25,544 --> 00:18:27,224
Speaker 1: again of us as sort of like inventing all this

416
00:18:27,224 --> 00:18:28,144
Speaker 1: stuff for these characters.

417
00:18:28,184 --> 00:18:30,864
Speaker 2: It's like, this is her brother's like older, maybe slightly

418
00:18:30,904 --> 00:18:33,064
Speaker 2: weird friend or whatever who's maybe like a bit of

419
00:18:33,064 --> 00:18:35,024
Speaker 2: a brother to her. All of a sudden, he was like, no,

420
00:18:35,104 --> 00:18:36,744
Speaker 2: come to lunch with me, and like saying, I want

421
00:18:36,744 --> 00:18:39,184
Speaker 2: to take you on a date. And it's this kind

422
00:18:39,224 --> 00:18:40,984
Speaker 2: of weird thing of where she sort of laughs and

423
00:18:40,984 --> 00:18:43,104
Speaker 2: she's like, I get me, my guess. So, but you

424
00:18:43,184 --> 00:18:45,264
Speaker 2: never feel like she's super into it. She obviously cares

425
00:18:45,264 --> 00:18:46,384
Speaker 2: about him, and I think a lot of that is

426
00:18:46,424 --> 00:18:48,864
Speaker 2: that they have this big shared history. Yeah, but I

427
00:18:48,984 --> 00:18:51,024
Speaker 2: just didn't want them to be endgame, but maybe she was.

428
00:18:51,104 --> 00:18:54,464
Speaker 2: Once he became like a burly gunwielding security guard, she

429
00:18:54,544 --> 00:18:56,264
Speaker 2: was like, I'm into it. That's fine. Yeah.

430
00:18:56,384 --> 00:18:59,824
Speaker 1: If there were one like part of the entire season

431
00:18:59,904 --> 00:19:02,584
Speaker 1: that I felt like was underdeveloped, it was the workers

432
00:19:02,784 --> 00:19:05,664
Speaker 1: at the Result, because I felt like Mike Whit did

433
00:19:05,824 --> 00:19:08,864
Speaker 1: such a great job at developing those characters, especially the

434
00:19:09,184 --> 00:19:12,704
Speaker 1: hotel managers season one and season two, who were these brilliant,

435
00:19:12,864 --> 00:19:16,424
Speaker 1: strong characters who would always side eye their guests because

436
00:19:16,424 --> 00:19:19,264
Speaker 1: they were like, these guys are so annoyingly privileged. And

437
00:19:19,304 --> 00:19:21,904
Speaker 1: I felt like that opportunity was misticks And maybe for

438
00:19:21,944 --> 00:19:24,864
Speaker 1: the lady who had to deal with the Rattler family.

439
00:19:24,744 --> 00:19:27,384
Speaker 2: Oh my god, No, she was incredible. So I interviewed

440
00:19:27,424 --> 00:19:29,384
Speaker 2: her as well, because she's a New Zealand actress, but

441
00:19:29,464 --> 00:19:31,344
Speaker 2: she has beaten neighbors and stuff in Australia, so we

442
00:19:31,384 --> 00:19:34,104
Speaker 2: claim her as an Astraian actress and I interviewed her

443
00:19:34,224 --> 00:19:36,664
Speaker 2: when I interview the other cast members, and it's so

444
00:19:36,744 --> 00:19:39,264
Speaker 2: interesting morgana a Riley, because she was telling me all

445
00:19:39,264 --> 00:19:41,384
Speaker 2: these different things that she put into her character and

446
00:19:41,464 --> 00:19:43,704
Speaker 2: like some of them won't used. But like when Chelsea

447
00:19:43,784 --> 00:19:46,184
Speaker 2: and Rick first arrive off the boat and she's saying

448
00:19:46,224 --> 00:19:48,344
Speaker 2: to look, like, oh, you're so pretty. If you look

449
00:19:48,344 --> 00:19:50,384
Speaker 2: in the background, Morghana was telling me. When I watched

450
00:19:50,424 --> 00:19:52,184
Speaker 2: her back, I saw it. You can see that like

451
00:19:52,264 --> 00:19:55,104
Speaker 2: she's reacting to her. She's like thinking that Chelsea's calling

452
00:19:55,104 --> 00:19:56,984
Speaker 2: her pretty well, and then all the stuff are being

453
00:19:57,024 --> 00:19:58,504
Speaker 2: like no, no, no, she doesn't mean you, and like all this.

454
00:19:58,584 --> 00:20:00,824
Speaker 2: So there's all these like plotlines. Yeah, and like when

455
00:20:00,824 --> 00:20:03,664
Speaker 2: she's moving the blender around in when she's taking stuff

456
00:20:03,664 --> 00:20:06,424
Speaker 2: over to the Ratlift family, she's making faces behind them

457
00:20:06,424 --> 00:20:07,024
Speaker 2: and and all.

458
00:20:07,024 --> 00:20:09,064
Speaker 1: This sort of stuff that's true. She's doing all this.

459
00:20:09,184 --> 00:20:11,544
Speaker 2: So if you look back all the staff, they've all

460
00:20:11,544 --> 00:20:14,224
Speaker 2: got their own storyline going on the background. But unless

461
00:20:14,224 --> 00:20:15,904
Speaker 2: you're looking for it, you'll miss it, which I feel

462
00:20:15,984 --> 00:20:17,664
Speaker 2: is maybe a missed opportunity because.

463
00:20:17,464 --> 00:20:21,224
Speaker 1: It's never spoken. Yeah, I wish it was spoken because

464
00:20:21,384 --> 00:20:24,224
Speaker 1: her like facial expressions with the Ratliff family so good,

465
00:20:24,624 --> 00:20:30,104
Speaker 1: especially Jason ISAACX that's his name, Timothy Ratliffe, especially Jason

466
00:20:30,144 --> 00:20:32,904
Speaker 1: Eyes actually plays Timothy. Every time he told her, no,

467
00:20:32,944 --> 00:20:34,944
Speaker 1: I need my phone versus take away all the.

468
00:20:34,904 --> 00:20:36,344
Speaker 2: Phone, She's like, what the hell?

469
00:20:36,584 --> 00:20:38,784
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she essentially poisoned the sun by giving him

470
00:20:38,784 --> 00:20:39,504
Speaker 1: all that information.

471
00:20:40,624 --> 00:20:42,704
Speaker 2: I know that was such a good surf. I think

472
00:20:42,744 --> 00:20:44,464
Speaker 2: her best line when she's like good on you and

473
00:20:44,504 --> 00:20:48,664
Speaker 2: good on you at first, when Timothy Ratliffe is saying

474
00:20:48,664 --> 00:20:50,504
Speaker 2: that his son Saxon works for him, and all that

475
00:20:50,544 --> 00:20:52,704
Speaker 2: sort of build up just to finish up with Mukan

476
00:20:52,744 --> 00:20:55,744
Speaker 2: Guytuk's storyline obviously. I mean they come out okay because

477
00:20:55,984 --> 00:20:57,944
Speaker 2: he gets the job he wants and she, you know,

478
00:20:58,144 --> 00:21:00,224
Speaker 2: seems to be she's with her bad boy. Yeah, she's

479
00:21:00,224 --> 00:21:01,824
Speaker 2: finally with a bad boy. We get it, we've all

480
00:21:01,864 --> 00:21:04,184
Speaker 2: been there. But did you think that having her in

481
00:21:04,224 --> 00:21:06,624
Speaker 2: that role was distracting? That's what some fans have said.

482
00:21:07,424 --> 00:21:10,984
Speaker 1: Oh, that's such a good question. I don't think it

483
00:21:11,224 --> 00:21:15,104
Speaker 1: was distracting. I know people who are huge Black Pink

484
00:21:15,144 --> 00:21:18,784
Speaker 1: fans and like K pop fans did find it distracting

485
00:21:18,944 --> 00:21:22,424
Speaker 1: because I think all they saw was like Lisa yeah,

486
00:21:22,664 --> 00:21:24,624
Speaker 1: and I do get it, but I feel like she

487
00:21:24,704 --> 00:21:27,104
Speaker 1: actually didn't have that big of a role for it

488
00:21:27,184 --> 00:21:28,184
Speaker 1: to be distracting.

489
00:21:28,464 --> 00:21:30,264
Speaker 2: No, I know, but I think it was her casting.

490
00:21:30,384 --> 00:21:32,384
Speaker 2: So it's like, if we put like Taylor Swift in

491
00:21:32,384 --> 00:21:34,584
Speaker 2: that role, everyone's like, well, you don't get Taylor Swift

492
00:21:34,864 --> 00:21:37,304
Speaker 2: unless her role's going to be massive. And I think

493
00:21:37,344 --> 00:21:38,784
Speaker 2: a lot of people were saying, like, you don't get

494
00:21:38,824 --> 00:21:40,544
Speaker 2: Lisa unless that role is going to be massive. So

495
00:21:40,584 --> 00:21:43,744
Speaker 2: as the episodes went on, everyone was just like, she's

496
00:21:43,824 --> 00:21:45,904
Speaker 2: like the secret killer, She's got some sort of a

497
00:21:45,944 --> 00:21:49,064
Speaker 2: plot she's and when it came out that she was

498
00:21:49,104 --> 00:21:52,184
Speaker 2: the character she was presented to us that she wasn't hiding,

499
00:21:52,264 --> 00:21:54,784
Speaker 2: she wasn't like a secret mastermind, she wasn't exceerial killer

500
00:21:54,864 --> 00:21:57,224
Speaker 2: anything like that. People felt kind of cheated. And it's

501
00:21:57,264 --> 00:21:59,824
Speaker 2: interesting because I was reading some interviews with the producers

502
00:21:59,824 --> 00:22:02,184
Speaker 2: and they were saying that they were really worried to

503
00:22:02,224 --> 00:22:04,624
Speaker 2: cast her for that reason, that they thought it might

504
00:22:04,664 --> 00:22:06,584
Speaker 2: be distracting, but they just went with it because when

505
00:22:06,624 --> 00:22:08,944
Speaker 2: she auditioned, she was really good and she said like

506
00:22:09,064 --> 00:22:10,864
Speaker 2: she's looking to change her career and this was a

507
00:22:10,904 --> 00:22:13,544
Speaker 2: new challenge, which I totally get Like, even if you're

508
00:22:13,584 --> 00:22:15,184
Speaker 2: like one of the biggest pop stars in the world,

509
00:22:15,184 --> 00:22:17,904
Speaker 2: like she is, a starring role on The White Lotus

510
00:22:18,664 --> 00:22:20,864
Speaker 2: is a huge deal, So I kind of get it.

511
00:22:20,904 --> 00:22:22,784
Speaker 2: But I don't know. I just I guess I was

512
00:22:22,864 --> 00:22:24,784
Speaker 2: never thinking that she was this huge mastermind. I think

513
00:22:24,824 --> 00:22:26,264
Speaker 2: she was just there to be in the show. But

514
00:22:26,664 --> 00:22:28,504
Speaker 2: I feel like that was the biggest disappointment for a

515
00:22:28,544 --> 00:22:30,184
Speaker 2: lot of people, So I thought she was wasted.

516
00:22:30,344 --> 00:22:32,624
Speaker 1: I do see that now that you mention it, because

517
00:22:32,864 --> 00:22:35,504
Speaker 1: thinking back on the last few seasons, everyone is like

518
00:22:35,544 --> 00:22:38,384
Speaker 1: they're all a less celebrities, Like they're really really famous,

519
00:22:38,384 --> 00:22:40,104
Speaker 1: but they're like the same amount of famous.

520
00:22:40,184 --> 00:22:40,544
Speaker 2: Yeah.

521
00:22:40,584 --> 00:22:42,864
Speaker 1: So if you're right, if there's one person who's way

522
00:22:42,864 --> 00:22:44,904
Speaker 1: more famous than the others, you're like, oh, they're going

523
00:22:44,984 --> 00:22:47,424
Speaker 1: to do something crazy. Yeah, And I think I see

524
00:22:47,424 --> 00:22:49,384
Speaker 1: if you're a massive Black Pink fan, like you would

525
00:22:49,384 --> 00:22:51,024
Speaker 1: have been like, oh, she's the one who does something right,

526
00:22:51,304 --> 00:22:52,064
Speaker 1: she just never does.

527
00:22:52,104 --> 00:22:54,784
Speaker 2: Would be she's to be an interesting character and date

528
00:22:54,824 --> 00:22:59,664
Speaker 2: her bad boy. Moving on to the trio, that's pretty

529
00:22:59,704 --> 00:23:02,624
Speaker 2: much stole the show. So we have Leslie Berbers, Kate,

530
00:23:02,824 --> 00:23:06,704
Speaker 2: Carrie Koon as Laurie and Michelle Monaghan as Jacqueline Lemon.

531
00:23:06,904 --> 00:23:08,544
Speaker 2: No one actually says her full name. I don't think

532
00:23:08,664 --> 00:23:11,504
Speaker 2: much throughout the series, but she's like a reality stuff.

533
00:23:11,504 --> 00:23:13,944
Speaker 2: She's like a dramatic TV actress. Oh, I thought, Yeah,

534
00:23:13,984 --> 00:23:15,464
Speaker 2: not a reality TV starf I think that'd be a

535
00:23:15,464 --> 00:23:18,104
Speaker 2: whole different a whole different show. What's interesting about this

536
00:23:18,144 --> 00:23:19,904
Speaker 2: is at first, I think we were all very instantly

537
00:23:19,944 --> 00:23:23,664
Speaker 2: taken in by this dynamic, but the actresses themselves are

538
00:23:23,744 --> 00:23:26,744
Speaker 2: really worried that their storyline would get pushed aside and forgotten.

539
00:23:26,784 --> 00:23:29,144
Speaker 2: Like when I was into ing Leslie Bib who plays Kate,

540
00:23:29,704 --> 00:23:31,704
Speaker 2: she was saying that that was their big fear because

541
00:23:31,704 --> 00:23:34,464
Speaker 2: she's like, our storyline is just this friendship dynamic and

542
00:23:34,544 --> 00:23:37,544
Speaker 2: how do we like honestly communicate together and all this

543
00:23:37,584 --> 00:23:39,384
Speaker 2: sort of stuff. And she's like, it's really beautiful, but

544
00:23:39,824 --> 00:23:42,304
Speaker 2: how is that going to compete with like shootouts and

545
00:23:42,424 --> 00:23:45,104
Speaker 2: murder in incest And the fact that it did I

546
00:23:45,144 --> 00:23:47,264
Speaker 2: think spoke to her like how much we love to

547
00:23:47,264 --> 00:23:49,184
Speaker 2: see female friendship depicted on screen.

548
00:23:49,384 --> 00:23:52,464
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think they had the extra challenge of

549
00:23:52,504 --> 00:23:56,264
Speaker 1: all three of them literally being super rich, beautiful white

550
00:23:56,304 --> 00:23:57,344
Speaker 1: women who.

551
00:23:57,584 --> 00:23:59,944
Speaker 2: Mike White called them the blonde blob, because when they

552
00:23:59,984 --> 00:24:02,464
Speaker 2: were together, they all just walked together and merged as

553
00:24:02,504 --> 00:24:03,424
Speaker 2: one blonde flob.

554
00:24:03,824 --> 00:24:07,064
Speaker 1: And I think what they did was so well done,

555
00:24:07,344 --> 00:24:10,264
Speaker 1: was like you could see each of them as individual

556
00:24:10,504 --> 00:24:12,864
Speaker 1: as well as a collective, and I think they each

557
00:24:12,904 --> 00:24:17,904
Speaker 1: had really interesting individual storylines, and they all portrayed like

558
00:24:18,024 --> 00:24:21,944
Speaker 1: character chures of like every woman's biggest insecurities, because I

559
00:24:21,984 --> 00:24:25,224
Speaker 1: could see insecurities of mine in all three characters, like

560
00:24:25,264 --> 00:24:26,024
Speaker 1: not the Trump stuff.

561
00:24:26,704 --> 00:24:28,344
Speaker 2: I would say, do you want to share something, but

562
00:24:28,504 --> 00:24:29,064
Speaker 2: other things.

563
00:24:29,104 --> 00:24:32,144
Speaker 1: And I think them going to like all three different

564
00:24:32,224 --> 00:24:36,024
Speaker 1: extremes of like how a woman should live her life

565
00:24:36,064 --> 00:24:38,424
Speaker 1: and seeing how it can clash, especially when you're at

566
00:24:38,424 --> 00:24:42,304
Speaker 1: that age where exactly what Kerry Koon's character like delivered

567
00:24:42,304 --> 00:24:45,544
Speaker 1: that beautiful monologue in the last episode that they grow

568
00:24:45,624 --> 00:24:48,184
Speaker 1: together and then they grow apart and then they come

569
00:24:48,224 --> 00:24:51,344
Speaker 1: back together. And I think that never gets spoken about

570
00:24:51,344 --> 00:24:53,944
Speaker 1: when it comes to female friendships, and they portrayed that

571
00:24:54,184 --> 00:24:54,784
Speaker 1: so well.

572
00:24:55,344 --> 00:24:58,624
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, it was this dynamic. It's so perfectly captured

573
00:24:58,624 --> 00:25:01,504
Speaker 2: how so many friendships are, which is a reason that

574
00:25:01,584 --> 00:25:03,144
Speaker 2: I felt quite out of step with a lot of

575
00:25:03,144 --> 00:25:06,064
Speaker 2: people watching this season because from the moment you saw

576
00:25:06,064 --> 00:25:09,024
Speaker 2: this women on screen, particularly in the first episode where

577
00:25:09,184 --> 00:25:11,464
Speaker 2: Laurie's the first one to li because she's tanked a

578
00:25:11,464 --> 00:25:12,344
Speaker 2: whole ball of wine.

579
00:25:12,384 --> 00:25:12,864
Speaker 1: Relatable.

580
00:25:13,024 --> 00:25:15,584
Speaker 2: Yeah, And then they're kind of like talking about each other,

581
00:25:15,624 --> 00:25:17,184
Speaker 2: and they're talking about her and they keep saying she's

582
00:25:17,184 --> 00:25:18,864
Speaker 2: so great, she's so wonderful.

583
00:25:18,744 --> 00:25:19,904
Speaker 1: But like too much.

584
00:25:20,064 --> 00:25:22,024
Speaker 2: Do you think this has happened? All that sort of stuff,

585
00:25:22,024 --> 00:25:24,024
Speaker 2: and she can see them gossiping.

586
00:25:23,664 --> 00:25:26,144
Speaker 1: Almost became an eye roll for the audience, right, they're like, Oh,

587
00:25:26,144 --> 00:25:28,184
Speaker 1: it's these friends who are just pretending to be friends,

588
00:25:28,184 --> 00:25:29,064
Speaker 1: but they actually see.

589
00:25:28,904 --> 00:25:30,944
Speaker 2: It exactly and all of a sudden, like the online

590
00:25:30,984 --> 00:25:33,264
Speaker 2: commentary around that, and also from people who I talk

591
00:25:33,344 --> 00:25:35,184
Speaker 2: to in real life would be like, oh my god,

592
00:25:35,224 --> 00:25:38,104
Speaker 2: those three toxic women. They're the worst, Like what a

593
00:25:38,264 --> 00:25:41,064
Speaker 2: terrible friendship. And as the season went on, I started

594
00:25:41,064 --> 00:25:43,344
Speaker 2: feeling really out of step and like a monster because

595
00:25:43,344 --> 00:25:45,784
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't think it's that bad. Well, I

596
00:25:45,784 --> 00:25:47,664
Speaker 2: don't think they've done anything that bad. This to me

597
00:25:47,744 --> 00:25:50,984
Speaker 2: just seems like a normal kind of friendship, especially people

598
00:25:51,024 --> 00:25:54,144
Speaker 2: who've been together that long. I don't think it was

599
00:25:54,144 --> 00:25:55,904
Speaker 2: as toxic as people were saying.

600
00:25:55,864 --> 00:25:58,824
Speaker 1: Yeah, their friendship like lies in between what I think

601
00:25:58,904 --> 00:26:02,784
Speaker 1: is like between sisters and close friends, and it's that

602
00:26:02,904 --> 00:26:06,744
Speaker 1: like scary in between limbo because with sisters, you can

603
00:26:06,784 --> 00:26:09,304
Speaker 1: fight yeh, knowing that you'll always come back together because

604
00:26:09,304 --> 00:26:12,024
Speaker 1: they always do. But with those kind of friendships that

605
00:26:12,024 --> 00:26:16,144
Speaker 1: you're so so close, you're always scared of fighting because

606
00:26:16,184 --> 00:26:19,504
Speaker 1: you don't have to come back together. And it shows

607
00:26:19,544 --> 00:26:21,744
Speaker 1: that when you have lived your lives and have grown

608
00:26:21,864 --> 00:26:25,744
Speaker 1: apart so easily, it's almost easier to not come back together. Yeah,

609
00:26:25,824 --> 00:26:28,064
Speaker 1: and I think what happens is that you end up

610
00:26:28,104 --> 00:26:30,384
Speaker 1: just like bitching to each other, like when the other

611
00:26:30,424 --> 00:26:32,504
Speaker 1: ones out of the room. I think Holly Wayne Wright

612
00:26:32,504 --> 00:26:34,944
Speaker 1: wrote about this really well. It's like you'll never bitch

613
00:26:34,984 --> 00:26:37,104
Speaker 1: about the third person to other people.

614
00:26:37,224 --> 00:26:40,064
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's specific you're going to keep within your fenship

615
00:26:40,184 --> 00:26:42,504
Speaker 2: circle because then you're talking to other friends who have

616
00:26:42,624 --> 00:26:45,944
Speaker 2: the same experience. So it's almost like again with your siblings,

617
00:26:45,944 --> 00:26:47,904
Speaker 2: like you can fight, but you wouldn't let anyone else

618
00:26:47,904 --> 00:26:50,104
Speaker 2: say something about them, And it's the same with your

619
00:26:50,104 --> 00:26:52,664
Speaker 2: friendship group. I think the other reason people thought this

620
00:26:52,824 --> 00:26:54,944
Speaker 2: was so toxic and crazy is that we've come to

621
00:26:54,984 --> 00:26:58,224
Speaker 2: look at female friendship in particular on screen in very

622
00:26:58,304 --> 00:27:01,224
Speaker 2: extreme ways. So for a long time we had, like,

623
00:27:01,584 --> 00:27:03,544
Speaker 2: you know, there was no female friendship on TV, and

624
00:27:03,544 --> 00:27:05,264
Speaker 2: a lot of us grew up with like teen shows

625
00:27:05,264 --> 00:27:07,104
Speaker 2: like A One Tree Hill and all that sort of stuff,

626
00:27:07,144 --> 00:27:10,304
Speaker 2: Dawson's Creek, all those kind of shows where they're worth

627
00:27:10,344 --> 00:27:13,504
Speaker 2: female characters, but they were always fighting. They were always

628
00:27:13,544 --> 00:27:16,304
Speaker 2: like fighting over a boy, like terrible things happening to

629
00:27:16,344 --> 00:27:18,064
Speaker 2: each other. They all had a guy best friend. We

630
00:27:18,184 --> 00:27:21,184
Speaker 2: just never really saw those moments. And then things kind

631
00:27:21,184 --> 00:27:24,464
Speaker 2: of flipped, and then we started really romanticizing friendship, especially

632
00:27:24,504 --> 00:27:26,944
Speaker 2: like millennial women, which obviously is incredible, but then it

633
00:27:26,984 --> 00:27:29,504
Speaker 2: was like every female friend I have is my soulmate

634
00:27:29,584 --> 00:27:31,944
Speaker 2: and we never fight and we talk every day and

635
00:27:32,024 --> 00:27:35,944
Speaker 2: everything's perfect, and you have these really idolized friendships. And

636
00:27:35,984 --> 00:27:38,744
Speaker 2: then this was just in between, which is probably what

637
00:27:38,904 --> 00:27:42,184
Speaker 2: most friendships are, where it's not this toxic nastiness, but

638
00:27:42,224 --> 00:27:45,744
Speaker 2: it's not this like we're together every day and everything's perfect,

639
00:27:45,744 --> 00:27:47,104
Speaker 2: And then people don't know how to handle that.

640
00:27:47,784 --> 00:27:51,104
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's also the risk that Laurie took of

641
00:27:51,144 --> 00:27:53,824
Speaker 1: like calling them out and putting everything on the table

642
00:27:53,864 --> 00:27:57,424
Speaker 1: and being super honest with how she feels, which I

643
00:27:57,544 --> 00:28:01,784
Speaker 1: found so confronting because I think it's quite scary to

644
00:28:01,864 --> 00:28:04,704
Speaker 1: be that honest with your close friends, because when you

645
00:28:04,784 --> 00:28:07,624
Speaker 1: develop a friendship where you say that you're really really

646
00:28:07,664 --> 00:28:10,584
Speaker 1: close because you're always having a good time together and

647
00:28:10,624 --> 00:28:12,824
Speaker 1: you tell each other everything and you love each other,

648
00:28:13,544 --> 00:28:16,664
Speaker 1: it's like you feel like you can never ever be

649
00:28:16,784 --> 00:28:19,864
Speaker 1: a drain on them. Yeah, and sometimes like you need

650
00:28:19,904 --> 00:28:21,664
Speaker 1: to be a drain on them because they're your people,

651
00:28:21,664 --> 00:28:23,944
Speaker 1: and like Laurie said, like they're the only people that

652
00:28:23,984 --> 00:28:26,744
Speaker 1: she really has. And I can tell that these three

653
00:28:26,784 --> 00:28:29,544
Speaker 1: friends obviously they're now bonded over something that they've experienced

654
00:28:29,664 --> 00:28:32,744
Speaker 1: dramatically because they literally saw that guy get shot. But

655
00:28:32,984 --> 00:28:34,824
Speaker 1: now they're all going to go back home and they're

656
00:28:34,824 --> 00:28:36,584
Speaker 1: going to be like, that was literally the most exhausting

657
00:28:36,584 --> 00:28:38,704
Speaker 1: holiday of my life. Yeah, they'll keep doing it over

658
00:28:38,744 --> 00:28:39,384
Speaker 1: and over again.

659
00:28:39,464 --> 00:28:41,304
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's the dream. God, if anyone's going

660
00:28:41,344 --> 00:28:42,584
Speaker 2: to come back for a new season, I'd love to

661
00:28:42,624 --> 00:28:45,224
Speaker 2: see those girls having like a makeup holiday. So much

662
00:28:45,264 --> 00:28:47,144
Speaker 2: of their scenes got cut as well, which I just

663
00:28:47,224 --> 00:28:49,024
Speaker 2: know is what happens when you have such a big

664
00:28:49,064 --> 00:28:50,864
Speaker 2: cast and such a big set and all those kind

665
00:28:50,864 --> 00:28:53,264
Speaker 2: of things, And like they actually shot all these scenes

666
00:28:53,304 --> 00:28:55,224
Speaker 2: where they go on a lot more to like their

667
00:28:55,264 --> 00:28:57,944
Speaker 2: friendship dynamic and their real life, so you hear more

668
00:28:57,944 --> 00:29:01,744
Speaker 2: about Jacquelin's marriage, more about Kate's family, and like also

669
00:29:01,784 --> 00:29:03,944
Speaker 2: more about her being like a Trump supporter and stuff,

670
00:29:04,104 --> 00:29:06,104
Speaker 2: which a lot of that stuff Mike White decided to

671
00:29:06,144 --> 00:29:08,224
Speaker 2: pull because when he started writing the show, the election

672
00:29:08,664 --> 00:29:10,184
Speaker 2: hadn't happened yet, so he thought it was going to

673
00:29:10,224 --> 00:29:12,264
Speaker 2: be talking about like a post Donald Trump world and

674
00:29:12,304 --> 00:29:14,384
Speaker 2: he's like, it's a bit intense now that he's the

675
00:29:14,424 --> 00:29:17,624
Speaker 2: president again. But also there was gonna be this whole

676
00:29:17,744 --> 00:29:21,344
Speaker 2: storyline where Laurie had a non binary child and that

677
00:29:21,464 --> 00:29:22,904
Speaker 2: was going to be like a big talking point with

678
00:29:22,944 --> 00:29:25,104
Speaker 2: the women. So those scenes were filmed but all cut.

679
00:29:25,384 --> 00:29:26,944
Speaker 2: So it would have been kind of interesting because sometimes

680
00:29:27,024 --> 00:29:29,544
Speaker 2: they seem like they've come back together and to the

681
00:29:29,584 --> 00:29:32,584
Speaker 2: audience it could seem jarring, but it's because those actual

682
00:29:32,824 --> 00:29:35,944
Speaker 2: actors had filmed these scenes of sharing this information, so.

683
00:29:36,024 --> 00:29:38,904
Speaker 1: Especially when there's so much like background acting, like you said,

684
00:29:38,944 --> 00:29:41,584
Speaker 1: of them just like staring at each other. Sometimes like

685
00:29:41,744 --> 00:29:44,504
Speaker 1: I wonder with the scenes and I have read some

686
00:29:44,544 --> 00:29:46,424
Speaker 1: of the scenes that have been cut of like what

687
00:29:46,544 --> 00:29:47,224
Speaker 1: we're missing in.

688
00:29:47,184 --> 00:29:50,304
Speaker 2: Those stays exactly so. But I think overall like an

689
00:29:50,304 --> 00:29:54,384
Speaker 2: incredibly strong storyline and so good exactly best like depiction

690
00:29:54,424 --> 00:29:58,304
Speaker 2: of friendship ever exactly most realistic one. Alright, getting into

691
00:29:58,304 --> 00:30:01,944
Speaker 2: everyone's favorite family of the rat Lifts. So we have

692
00:30:02,304 --> 00:30:06,504
Speaker 2: Jason Isaac are Messy Bestie as Timothy Ratliffe Parker Posey,

693
00:30:06,544 --> 00:30:09,184
Speaker 2: who again, I just freaking love that she's having this,

694
00:30:09,304 --> 00:30:11,344
Speaker 2: Like I feel like a new fan has discovered her,

695
00:30:12,104 --> 00:30:14,504
Speaker 2: because again she's been an actress for what like over

696
00:30:14,544 --> 00:30:17,104
Speaker 2: thirty years something like that. I remember just being obsessed

697
00:30:17,144 --> 00:30:20,544
Speaker 2: with her josing the Pussycats iconic but also the Blade Trinity,

698
00:30:20,584 --> 00:30:22,624
Speaker 2: but also I've got mail like everything, and then like,

699
00:30:22,664 --> 00:30:23,704
Speaker 2: did she just Game three?

700
00:30:23,784 --> 00:30:26,584
Speaker 1: Scream three? She's so good, she take a break from acting,

701
00:30:26,624 --> 00:30:27,304
Speaker 1: and then.

702
00:30:27,144 --> 00:30:28,984
Speaker 2: I think she's done, like she's dumb bits and pieces

703
00:30:28,984 --> 00:30:30,664
Speaker 2: and I think she took like an extended break or

704
00:30:30,704 --> 00:30:32,704
Speaker 2: anything like that, but she kind of just goes where

705
00:30:32,704 --> 00:30:36,064
Speaker 2: the rolls taste. So good in this role. And then

706
00:30:36,384 --> 00:30:40,144
Speaker 2: the crazy messed up children, Sam Navola as Lachlan Ratlift,

707
00:30:40,464 --> 00:30:45,224
Speaker 2: Sarah Catherine Hook as Piper Ratlift, and Patrick Schwartzenegger our

708
00:30:45,264 --> 00:30:47,944
Speaker 2: favorite new NEPO baby as Saxon. What do you need

709
00:30:47,984 --> 00:30:49,544
Speaker 2: to say about Saxon because I feel like you were

710
00:30:49,624 --> 00:30:52,344
Speaker 2: quite enamored by him this season or we freaked out

711
00:30:52,344 --> 00:30:56,624
Speaker 2: by him. I can't tell I hate that Patrick Swartznegger no, no, no,

712
00:30:57,064 --> 00:30:58,544
Speaker 2: because he didn't interview with us.

713
00:30:58,584 --> 00:31:02,664
Speaker 1: That he made me cry. He made me so sad

714
00:31:02,704 --> 00:31:03,104
Speaker 1: for him.

715
00:31:03,264 --> 00:31:05,504
Speaker 2: Oh really, he would be thrilled.

716
00:31:05,664 --> 00:31:07,464
Speaker 1: That actually made me cry, like out of the wo

717
00:31:07,784 --> 00:31:10,424
Speaker 1: the last episode when he was on the beat, she

718
00:31:10,504 --> 00:31:13,304
Speaker 1: with Chelsea and they were talking and then she sees

719
00:31:13,384 --> 00:31:15,144
Speaker 1: Rick and runs over to Rick and he looks back

720
00:31:15,144 --> 00:31:17,464
Speaker 1: on her his face. I don't know how he did

721
00:31:17,464 --> 00:31:20,784
Speaker 1: that with his face like he's actually a brilliant actor. Yeah,

722
00:31:21,024 --> 00:31:22,344
Speaker 1: that like brought me to tears.

723
00:31:22,344 --> 00:31:24,624
Speaker 2: Everyone was saying it was a similar moment that face

724
00:31:24,704 --> 00:31:26,784
Speaker 2: on the beach to you know, the end of season two,

725
00:31:27,104 --> 00:31:30,024
Speaker 2: Megan Fay, he is Daphne when Prince.

726
00:31:30,064 --> 00:31:31,584
Speaker 1: Yeah, when she's acting.

727
00:31:31,424 --> 00:31:34,944
Speaker 2: There's a slight twitch of her face and with one twitch,

728
00:31:35,024 --> 00:31:38,064
Speaker 2: she realizes my husband had an affair with the woman

729
00:31:38,064 --> 00:31:40,104
Speaker 2: I now consider a close friend, and here's what I'm

730
00:31:40,144 --> 00:31:41,944
Speaker 2: going to do about it. It's like one second, and

731
00:31:41,984 --> 00:31:44,304
Speaker 2: it's the same with Patrick Swartznigger and I've seen it.

732
00:31:44,344 --> 00:31:47,224
Speaker 1: Was absolutely brilliant, and I got a hint that he

733
00:31:47,344 --> 00:31:49,584
Speaker 1: was going to be really good this season when Chelsea

734
00:31:49,664 --> 00:31:53,624
Speaker 1: called him soulless. Yeah, in the first few episodes and

735
00:31:53,624 --> 00:31:56,264
Speaker 1: you can see like that look of his face. I

736
00:31:56,304 --> 00:31:59,664
Speaker 1: think he has the best character arc in the whole season.

737
00:31:59,904 --> 00:32:02,944
Speaker 2: That is so interesting because coming into the role first,

738
00:32:03,104 --> 00:32:05,624
Speaker 2: Patrick Schwarzenegger was one of the ones who as soon

739
00:32:05,624 --> 00:32:07,184
Speaker 2: as he saw White LUs he said, I'll do it.

740
00:32:07,224 --> 00:32:09,784
Speaker 2: I'll do anything, and then the creators told him that

741
00:32:09,824 --> 00:32:11,744
Speaker 2: there was going to be an incest scene and they

742
00:32:11,784 --> 00:32:13,864
Speaker 2: didn't name names, but apparently there was quite a few

743
00:32:13,904 --> 00:32:16,424
Speaker 2: other big name actors in the mix of that role

744
00:32:16,424 --> 00:32:18,184
Speaker 2: who was going to audition and when they heard about

745
00:32:18,184 --> 00:32:20,624
Speaker 2: the incest scenes, they pulled out and wouldn't do it.

746
00:32:20,624 --> 00:32:23,104
Speaker 2: And Patrick Schwarzenegger's like, put me in there, I'll do anything,

747
00:32:23,344 --> 00:32:24,584
Speaker 2: pretty much, you know.

748
00:32:24,584 --> 00:32:25,624
Speaker 1: We also the video of him.

749
00:32:25,544 --> 00:32:27,224
Speaker 2: Crying when he told his family got the role, and

750
00:32:27,264 --> 00:32:30,784
Speaker 2: he obviously comes from like a crazy prominent family on

751
00:32:30,824 --> 00:32:33,144
Speaker 2: both sides, but he really wanted this role and he

752
00:32:33,184 --> 00:32:35,344
Speaker 2: said that he went in thinking that Saxon was going

753
00:32:35,384 --> 00:32:38,464
Speaker 2: to have this big come to Jesus character arc. And

754
00:32:38,504 --> 00:32:40,744
Speaker 2: he was going to be a changed man. And so

755
00:32:40,744 --> 00:32:42,584
Speaker 2: for one of the scenes he went on and played

756
00:32:42,624 --> 00:32:45,064
Speaker 2: it like that as if he's a changed man, and

757
00:32:45,104 --> 00:32:47,144
Speaker 2: Mike White called cut. And Mike White sounds like the

758
00:32:47,144 --> 00:32:50,264
Speaker 2: weirdest like and also most brilliant, but most cutting person, like.

759
00:32:50,304 --> 00:32:51,344
Speaker 1: You can read their minds.

760
00:32:51,624 --> 00:32:53,344
Speaker 2: He walked around, He's like, what the hell was that.

761
00:32:53,744 --> 00:32:55,504
Speaker 2: He's like, don't do that. He's like, just so you know,

762
00:32:55,584 --> 00:32:56,984
Speaker 2: the show runs for a few months.

763
00:32:56,984 --> 00:32:58,344
Speaker 1: Someone told me that I'd cried.

764
00:32:58,984 --> 00:33:02,424
Speaker 2: You cryed on instead of the White lotus right up crying. Okay,

765
00:33:02,544 --> 00:33:03,584
Speaker 2: that's why I didn't say that to you in the

766
00:33:03,824 --> 00:33:06,384
Speaker 2: pod records. But he's like, what are you doing? You

767
00:33:06,424 --> 00:33:08,624
Speaker 2: can't do that, And then Patrick Schortzenegger said, I tried

768
00:33:08,664 --> 00:33:10,504
Speaker 2: to explain, like, no, no, no, he's a change man.

769
00:33:10,544 --> 00:33:11,824
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna show this.

770
00:33:11,984 --> 00:33:14,544
Speaker 2: And Mike White was like, just remember this show was

771
00:33:14,544 --> 00:33:16,424
Speaker 2: on for a couple of months, but Saxon is at

772
00:33:16,464 --> 00:33:19,864
Speaker 2: this resort for a week, like, he cannot change this much.

773
00:33:19,864 --> 00:33:20,784
Speaker 1: You gotta pull it back.

774
00:33:20,864 --> 00:33:22,984
Speaker 2: So it's interesting that we're seeing the very pulled back

775
00:33:23,104 --> 00:33:25,344
Speaker 2: version of him having this epiphany.

776
00:33:25,424 --> 00:33:27,824
Speaker 1: Well that's the thing. Like you might not even see

777
00:33:27,864 --> 00:33:29,864
Speaker 1: it as an epiphany because like right at the end,

778
00:33:30,264 --> 00:33:32,024
Speaker 1: what I didn't like is that we didn't really get

779
00:33:32,064 --> 00:33:35,784
Speaker 1: to see him. I guess maurn Chelsea's death because you

780
00:33:35,944 --> 00:33:38,624
Speaker 1: see him with her pretty much together for like three

781
00:33:38,704 --> 00:33:40,864
Speaker 1: days straight, and they become really close, and I feel

782
00:33:40,904 --> 00:33:42,944
Speaker 1: like she's taught him so many things to the point

783
00:33:42,944 --> 00:33:46,024
Speaker 1: where he starts reading, like to become reading.

784
00:33:45,904 --> 00:33:47,264
Speaker 2: The biggest plot twist of all.

785
00:33:47,464 --> 00:33:50,264
Speaker 1: But I also when I sat down with that thought

786
00:33:50,384 --> 00:33:52,184
Speaker 1: that I had about how annoyed I was so where

787
00:33:52,224 --> 00:33:54,624
Speaker 1: he didn't mourn her death, I was like, maybe he

788
00:33:54,664 --> 00:33:58,224
Speaker 1: actually didn't really care, maybe because that's like if we

789
00:33:58,384 --> 00:34:00,584
Speaker 1: look at him from like I guess, like you said,

790
00:34:00,744 --> 00:34:03,144
Speaker 1: they've only been there for a week, for like three

791
00:34:03,224 --> 00:34:06,104
Speaker 1: days earlier, he wouldn't care at all.

792
00:34:06,504 --> 00:34:08,904
Speaker 2: I think, Yeah, I think people have definitely romanticized that online.

793
00:34:08,944 --> 00:34:10,824
Speaker 2: They're like he's a change man because he lost her,

794
00:34:10,824 --> 00:34:12,744
Speaker 2: And I was like, he just really wanted to have

795
00:34:12,784 --> 00:34:14,704
Speaker 2: sex with her because she didn't want to have sex

796
00:34:14,744 --> 00:34:16,584
Speaker 2: with him, And a lot of men like once if

797
00:34:16,584 --> 00:34:18,624
Speaker 2: they can't use you for like some sort of like

798
00:34:18,744 --> 00:34:21,184
Speaker 2: sexual desire, then like they kind of blank you in

799
00:34:21,224 --> 00:34:21,704
Speaker 2: their minds.

800
00:34:21,784 --> 00:34:24,784
Speaker 1: So he literally told his brother like he was going

801
00:34:24,824 --> 00:34:26,584
Speaker 1: to take advantage of the girls when they got really

802
00:34:26,624 --> 00:34:28,864
Speaker 1: really drunk, and then it ended up happening to him.

803
00:34:29,024 --> 00:34:31,904
Speaker 2: I know, Okay, well, let's talk about that because I'm

804
00:34:31,944 --> 00:34:34,224
Speaker 2: just like, he's such an unlikable character and that type

805
00:34:34,264 --> 00:34:36,464
Speaker 2: of man is like so unlikable, and it just also

806
00:34:36,464 --> 00:34:40,184
Speaker 2: feels so realistic. Interestingly, Amy Lee Wood was saying an

807
00:34:40,184 --> 00:34:43,544
Speaker 2: interview that every other castman shares something in common with

808
00:34:43,584 --> 00:34:45,384
Speaker 2: their character and that's why they were casts. Like she

809
00:34:45,504 --> 00:34:48,944
Speaker 2: shares like Chelsea's like optimism, and like she also loves

810
00:34:48,944 --> 00:34:51,464
Speaker 2: a good love story and she's a bit yeah exactly.

811
00:34:51,504 --> 00:34:53,384
Speaker 2: And she said the only two people and the whole

812
00:34:53,424 --> 00:34:57,104
Speaker 2: cast who are nothing like their characters at all Michelle

813
00:34:57,104 --> 00:34:59,904
Speaker 2: Monaghan as Jacqueline, She's like nothing like her. There's nothing

814
00:34:59,944 --> 00:35:03,184
Speaker 2: to connect the two. And Patrick Schwarzenegger as Saxon. And

815
00:35:03,224 --> 00:35:05,304
Speaker 2: I was like, really, because we thought that was just

816
00:35:05,384 --> 00:35:07,464
Speaker 2: him being Yeah, his mom had to come out and

817
00:35:07,464 --> 00:35:08,224
Speaker 2: be like, he's not.

818
00:35:08,264 --> 00:35:10,344
Speaker 1: Like Saxon, and I kind of believe it.

819
00:35:10,864 --> 00:35:12,464
Speaker 2: M I mean, I don't think he's that bad, but

820
00:35:12,464 --> 00:35:16,384
Speaker 2: I'm sure there's just so good. Also on Neo Baby,

821
00:35:16,504 --> 00:35:19,704
Speaker 2: he's Emily Mornemer's son and he's currently dating more Apatow

822
00:35:19,944 --> 00:35:23,544
Speaker 2: as in Judd Apatow. And yeah, so they're all little

823
00:35:24,304 --> 00:35:26,544
Speaker 2: and they're on set with Patrick rest of us I know,

824
00:35:27,264 --> 00:35:30,304
Speaker 2: which it's like NEFO baby Central behind the scenes there,

825
00:35:30,344 --> 00:35:32,384
Speaker 2: but you know, we love these crazy kids. It's okay,

826
00:35:32,584 --> 00:35:34,384
Speaker 2: so yes, getting back onto sexon before we get to

827
00:35:34,424 --> 00:35:35,624
Speaker 2: the rest of the family. But he's just there's so

828
00:35:35,744 --> 00:35:37,824
Speaker 2: much to say about him. I really felt sorry for

829
00:35:37,904 --> 00:35:40,944
Speaker 2: him too. I don't know why. There's just a patheticness

830
00:35:40,984 --> 00:35:43,144
Speaker 2: to him through the whole thing that you can't help

831
00:35:43,144 --> 00:35:45,024
Speaker 2: but feel sorry for him, even though he's like the

832
00:35:45,024 --> 00:35:48,464
Speaker 2: most privileged person there really, because he's so unburdened by

833
00:35:48,504 --> 00:35:50,944
Speaker 2: any expectator like looking after a family anything like that,

834
00:35:51,024 --> 00:35:53,424
Speaker 2: like his dad is. But he's also so privileged and

835
00:35:53,464 --> 00:35:55,184
Speaker 2: just does what he wants. But you do end up

836
00:35:55,184 --> 00:35:56,104
Speaker 2: feeling sorry for him.

837
00:35:56,104 --> 00:35:58,384
Speaker 1: And I feel like he did non consentually have sex.

838
00:35:59,144 --> 00:36:01,304
Speaker 2: He did get sexually assaulted, which I feel like we

839
00:36:01,344 --> 00:36:04,424
Speaker 2: all skimmed over. Yeah, what did you think that was

840
00:36:04,464 --> 00:36:06,544
Speaker 2: so much build up to that scene, so.

841
00:36:06,624 --> 00:36:08,064
Speaker 1: Much build up to that scene. I thought it was

842
00:36:08,104 --> 00:36:10,264
Speaker 1: going to be way more explicit than it was.

843
00:36:10,384 --> 00:36:12,584
Speaker 2: Yeah, the same, although it was enough so many people

844
00:36:12,664 --> 00:36:15,344
Speaker 2: hated it, right, Yeah, I feel like it was expected.

845
00:36:15,504 --> 00:36:17,024
Speaker 1: I didn't think it was that big of a deal.

846
00:36:17,384 --> 00:36:19,304
Speaker 2: Ah yeah. Most people I talked to were just like

847
00:36:19,384 --> 00:36:21,984
Speaker 2: so shocked, and I was like, oh, we must watch

848
00:36:22,064 --> 00:36:23,504
Speaker 2: some different TV shows cause I've seen.

849
00:36:23,424 --> 00:36:24,104
Speaker 1: Way worse than this.

850
00:36:24,424 --> 00:36:27,344
Speaker 2: It was obviously super shocking because it's also one of

851
00:36:27,424 --> 00:36:30,184
Speaker 2: like the few, you know, taboo things that like it

852
00:36:30,224 --> 00:36:32,424
Speaker 2: doesn't even feel fun to like play with at all,

853
00:36:32,504 --> 00:36:35,304
Speaker 2: Like it just still feels taboo no matter what, and.

854
00:36:35,224 --> 00:36:37,624
Speaker 1: It really likes like one percent rich person's like we

855
00:36:37,704 --> 00:36:38,384
Speaker 1: don't have sex.

856
00:36:38,264 --> 00:36:40,904
Speaker 2: With us, Yeah, we don't do that much. But also

857
00:36:40,904 --> 00:36:42,584
Speaker 2: I think because it was done as drug haes, but

858
00:36:42,624 --> 00:36:43,944
Speaker 2: I think it was. Yeah. I was trying to think

859
00:36:43,984 --> 00:36:46,464
Speaker 2: of like was it just there for like this intense

860
00:36:46,504 --> 00:36:48,224
Speaker 2: shock value and didn't.

861
00:36:48,064 --> 00:36:51,984
Speaker 1: Kind of shock value was finding out that Lucky did

862
00:36:52,024 --> 00:36:54,584
Speaker 1: it purposefully and he wasn't as drunk.

863
00:36:54,744 --> 00:36:56,664
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, well yeah, exactly because he was told

864
00:36:56,704 --> 00:36:59,864
Speaker 2: he was a people pleaser and that's why he said

865
00:36:59,904 --> 00:37:02,664
Speaker 2: that I'm a people pleaser, Like that's not what we made.

866
00:37:02,504 --> 00:37:04,544
Speaker 1: Saxon's means just like mortified.

867
00:37:04,784 --> 00:37:07,744
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just felt like I guess maybe I didn't

868
00:37:07,784 --> 00:37:09,544
Speaker 2: love it because it didn't feel like it was building

869
00:37:09,584 --> 00:37:12,424
Speaker 2: to anything. It just felt like a punishment for this

870
00:37:12,544 --> 00:37:15,544
Speaker 2: really unlikable character. Like it felt like a punishment for Saxon,

871
00:37:15,584 --> 00:37:17,984
Speaker 2: so it could be like hah, like we got him

872
00:37:18,024 --> 00:37:19,624
Speaker 2: and now he has to go off and like feel

873
00:37:19,664 --> 00:37:22,464
Speaker 2: bad about everything. But I didn't love that as a

874
00:37:22,464 --> 00:37:24,904
Speaker 2: plot device. It felt kind of empty. Yeah.

875
00:37:24,944 --> 00:37:27,784
Speaker 1: I feel like if they went in harder on it, yeah,

876
00:37:28,024 --> 00:37:31,304
Speaker 1: no pun attended, then it might have been more interesting.

877
00:37:31,384 --> 00:37:33,344
Speaker 1: But I feel like it had no real impact on

878
00:37:33,704 --> 00:37:35,184
Speaker 1: him wanting to change.

879
00:37:35,584 --> 00:37:37,544
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it also made him look just ashamed. But

880
00:37:37,584 --> 00:37:39,944
Speaker 2: I think it was almost like Chelsea rejecting him that

881
00:37:40,024 --> 00:37:42,384
Speaker 2: was his big change. Yeah, because when she was explaining

882
00:37:42,424 --> 00:37:44,464
Speaker 2: that she found him soulless and she found him all

883
00:37:44,464 --> 00:37:46,864
Speaker 2: these things, and not that he wanted to change to

884
00:37:46,944 --> 00:37:49,504
Speaker 2: be with her, He just wanted to continue tricking her

885
00:37:50,104 --> 00:37:52,304
Speaker 2: again so much. In the Rightlift family story got cut

886
00:37:52,344 --> 00:37:54,464
Speaker 2: and it's one of those things where like obviously.

887
00:37:54,184 --> 00:37:57,064
Speaker 1: He could have we didn't even find out exactly what

888
00:37:57,184 --> 00:37:58,104
Speaker 1: happened with his work.

889
00:37:58,344 --> 00:38:00,064
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder if that was a Yeah. A lot

890
00:38:00,104 --> 00:38:01,784
Speaker 2: of people are angry because they wanted to see the

891
00:38:01,864 --> 00:38:04,664
Speaker 2: rightlift family like reckon with what happened, and they wanted

892
00:38:04,664 --> 00:38:06,824
Speaker 2: to see the fall out of it. But I almost

893
00:38:06,824 --> 00:38:08,824
Speaker 2: think the way it ended of him just being like,

894
00:38:09,584 --> 00:38:11,024
Speaker 2: this is going to happen then, and we're still going

895
00:38:11,064 --> 00:38:12,984
Speaker 2: to be a family, and all the kids have changed.

896
00:38:13,024 --> 00:38:15,584
Speaker 2: Like when you see that first shot of them coming

897
00:38:15,624 --> 00:38:18,184
Speaker 2: over on the boat in the first episode, Saxon's all

898
00:38:18,224 --> 00:38:20,344
Speaker 2: like swaggered and he's sitting up straight and he's like

899
00:38:20,384 --> 00:38:22,264
Speaker 2: the head of like where the kids are sitting. And

900
00:38:22,264 --> 00:38:25,424
Speaker 2: then Piper is sitting with headphones on, head down, like

901
00:38:25,544 --> 00:38:28,024
Speaker 2: you know, she's like there just for a spiritual reason.

902
00:38:28,064 --> 00:38:29,624
Speaker 2: And on the way back you can see she's very

903
00:38:29,664 --> 00:38:32,424
Speaker 2: much just accepted that she's exactly like this family that

904
00:38:32,464 --> 00:38:35,544
Speaker 2: she was so against being part of. And then Lachlan's

905
00:38:35,584 --> 00:38:37,904
Speaker 2: character is this like meek, mild little brother on the

906
00:38:37,944 --> 00:38:39,904
Speaker 2: way over, and then he's like sitting at the top

907
00:38:39,944 --> 00:38:41,944
Speaker 2: of the line and on the way back he's like

908
00:38:42,024 --> 00:38:44,224
Speaker 2: kind of the powerful one. But it's actually most of

909
00:38:44,264 --> 00:38:47,344
Speaker 2: Piper's storyline that got cut because she's supposed to when

910
00:38:47,344 --> 00:38:49,024
Speaker 2: she comes back and deside she doesn't want to live

911
00:38:49,104 --> 00:38:54,544
Speaker 2: at the monastery, she decide Yeah, so real. That's the

912
00:38:54,544 --> 00:38:56,024
Speaker 2: most real for the storyline in the whole thing.

913
00:38:56,104 --> 00:38:58,144
Speaker 1: So I could I really be eating that every day?

914
00:38:58,264 --> 00:39:01,544
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not organic. Again, relatable. She was meant to

915
00:39:01,544 --> 00:39:03,184
Speaker 2: come back to the resort, decides she was going to

916
00:39:03,224 --> 00:39:05,624
Speaker 2: lose her virginity because she was giving up the spirituality,

917
00:39:05,664 --> 00:39:07,984
Speaker 2: and she they filmed this that she was supposed to

918
00:39:07,984 --> 00:39:11,424
Speaker 2: have a sex scene with Zion Belinda's and that's when

919
00:39:11,464 --> 00:39:13,344
Speaker 2: when you see her coming back into the room later on,

920
00:39:13,384 --> 00:39:15,864
Speaker 2: her hairs all messed up and she's like strutting around

921
00:39:15,944 --> 00:39:17,464
Speaker 2: and they're meant to be like, this is what happens

922
00:39:17,464 --> 00:39:19,784
Speaker 2: when you lose your virgidity, become like a power kind

923
00:39:19,784 --> 00:39:22,584
Speaker 2: of woman and st So that was all cut. And

924
00:39:22,664 --> 00:39:25,984
Speaker 2: she's also their scene when they're leaving the monastery where

925
00:39:26,464 --> 00:39:29,304
Speaker 2: Lachlan goes to her like they're having that conversation she's like,

926
00:39:29,304 --> 00:39:30,784
Speaker 2: I don't want to ruin my life and she's like

927
00:39:30,784 --> 00:39:33,024
Speaker 2: this family is so incestuous, and they cut this bit

928
00:39:33,064 --> 00:39:38,544
Speaker 2: but he's like, why what have you heard? So she

929
00:39:38,664 --> 00:39:40,744
Speaker 2: was meant to almost know what her brothers had done,

930
00:39:40,784 --> 00:39:43,304
Speaker 2: which also makes the end scene make a bit more sense.

931
00:39:43,344 --> 00:39:45,464
Speaker 2: But if the friendship group was the most honest depiction

932
00:39:45,544 --> 00:39:47,864
Speaker 2: of like a women's female friendship. Then I felt this

933
00:39:48,024 --> 00:39:51,264
Speaker 2: was the most honest depiction of like generational wealth on

934
00:39:51,424 --> 00:39:54,504
Speaker 2: like a family that also sees themselves as like this

935
00:39:54,704 --> 00:39:56,224
Speaker 2: untouchable pillar of community.

936
00:39:56,424 --> 00:39:59,864
Speaker 1: Untouchable's ride just so silly with like how Timothy was

937
00:39:59,904 --> 00:40:02,704
Speaker 1: pretty much interviewing each members for family, asking if they

938
00:40:02,704 --> 00:40:03,704
Speaker 1: could live without money.

939
00:40:03,824 --> 00:40:07,704
Speaker 2: Yeah, like trying to kill him off in different way, Yeah, exactly.

940
00:40:07,744 --> 00:40:09,744
Speaker 2: And also a lot of people were, yeah, not loving

941
00:40:09,784 --> 00:40:11,824
Speaker 2: the fact that they have those drinks with the poison

942
00:40:11,904 --> 00:40:13,704
Speaker 2: fruit and then they don't get sick. But then Lachlan,

943
00:40:13,944 --> 00:40:16,544
Speaker 2: you know, makes the drink in a dirty blender, which

944
00:40:16,584 --> 00:40:18,024
Speaker 2: the vibe was like, if you make a drink and

945
00:40:18,024 --> 00:40:19,184
Speaker 2: a dirty blender, you.

946
00:40:19,144 --> 00:40:20,104
Speaker 1: Deserve to die.

947
00:40:20,344 --> 00:40:23,144
Speaker 2: But also very realistic for a teen boy who's probably

948
00:40:23,184 --> 00:40:24,504
Speaker 2: never washed a dish in his whole life.

949
00:40:24,544 --> 00:40:26,824
Speaker 1: That's my one thing. I actually wish he died.

950
00:40:27,064 --> 00:40:29,224
Speaker 2: M I guess. Oh no, people so upset, and I

951
00:40:29,264 --> 00:40:30,504
Speaker 2: was like, I actually don't care if he that kid

952
00:40:30,504 --> 00:40:31,144
Speaker 2: lives or die.

953
00:40:31,064 --> 00:40:32,704
Speaker 1: Because I think it was I was like stuck on

954
00:40:32,744 --> 00:40:34,664
Speaker 1: what Chelsea says at the beginning, where she's like, bad

955
00:40:34,664 --> 00:40:35,384
Speaker 1: things happen in.

956
00:40:35,344 --> 00:40:39,344
Speaker 2: Threes, so I felt like three people, yea three main

957
00:40:39,624 --> 00:40:40,144
Speaker 2: because three.

958
00:40:39,984 --> 00:40:42,184
Speaker 1: People did die. I think more than three people, yeah,

959
00:40:42,224 --> 00:40:44,624
Speaker 1: but I wanted three main people.

960
00:40:44,344 --> 00:40:48,664
Speaker 2: To die interesting well, which leads us into the final scene.

961
00:40:48,704 --> 00:40:50,984
Speaker 2: How did you think about the ending with the deaths

962
00:40:50,984 --> 00:40:52,024
Speaker 2: of Rick and Chelsea.

963
00:40:52,584 --> 00:40:56,264
Speaker 1: I actually thought it was a bit of a cheap death,

964
00:40:56,624 --> 00:41:00,384
Speaker 1: really is that? I think? Especially Chelsea's like I think

965
00:41:00,944 --> 00:41:03,664
Speaker 1: you see Rick and you like think he's going to change,

966
00:41:03,744 --> 00:41:06,144
Speaker 1: and then he goes to that therapist for his stress

967
00:41:06,184 --> 00:41:08,424
Speaker 1: and he's like, I'm pretty much going to do something bad,

968
00:41:08,464 --> 00:41:10,144
Speaker 1: like I need to talk to you, which I think

969
00:41:10,264 --> 00:41:12,264
Speaker 1: was such a great look at like the privilege that

970
00:41:12,304 --> 00:41:14,584
Speaker 1: they all still have, Like they're all tortured in different ways,

971
00:41:14,584 --> 00:41:16,864
Speaker 1: but they all have that same privilege where you have

972
00:41:16,944 --> 00:41:17,744
Speaker 1: to help me right now.

973
00:41:17,864 --> 00:41:20,384
Speaker 2: Yeah. People one blaming the therapist and it's like, let's not

974
00:41:20,424 --> 00:41:23,544
Speaker 2: blame her for him shooting a man. That's crazy if.

975
00:41:23,424 --> 00:41:26,064
Speaker 1: You're blaming her. And then he just ends up shooting

976
00:41:26,664 --> 00:41:28,744
Speaker 1: the guy. We find out he's a Sparta, which I

977
00:41:28,744 --> 00:41:29,624
Speaker 1: feel like we already.

978
00:41:30,024 --> 00:41:31,664
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was meant to be a huge

979
00:41:31,664 --> 00:41:33,744
Speaker 2: plot twist, but then they hamn't at home so much.

980
00:41:33,784 --> 00:41:35,464
Speaker 2: It didn't feel like a plot twist, but maybe it

981
00:41:35,504 --> 00:41:36,624
Speaker 2: wasn't meant to, I don't know.

982
00:41:36,784 --> 00:41:40,744
Speaker 1: And then just her dying, like and you're just watching

983
00:41:40,824 --> 00:41:42,984
Speaker 1: him see the love that he could have had die,

984
00:41:43,664 --> 00:41:45,864
Speaker 1: and then the both of them dying together. I felt

985
00:41:45,904 --> 00:41:48,544
Speaker 1: like I've just seen that scene before so many times

986
00:41:49,064 --> 00:41:50,144
Speaker 1: that it didn't really hit me.

987
00:41:50,424 --> 00:41:52,304
Speaker 2: It was like, what I thought was interesting is a

988
00:41:52,304 --> 00:41:53,824
Speaker 2: lot of people are sort of saying, like, we shouldn't

989
00:41:53,824 --> 00:41:56,984
Speaker 2: glamorize their love, their love was toxic, and it's like, yeah, absolutely,

990
00:41:57,024 --> 00:41:59,544
Speaker 2: But that's the interesting part of it is you watch

991
00:41:59,624 --> 00:42:02,624
Speaker 2: these two people who were so unsuited, so in this

992
00:42:02,784 --> 00:42:05,424
Speaker 2: like love story that shouldn't have worked, but they're caught

993
00:42:05,544 --> 00:42:08,464
Speaker 2: up in the like the mythology of their own romance.

994
00:42:08,824 --> 00:42:10,584
Speaker 2: And also at the end of the day, like he

995
00:42:10,664 --> 00:42:12,704
Speaker 2: just made that decision, as she said, like you can

996
00:42:12,744 --> 00:42:14,104
Speaker 2: pick the love you didn't have, or you can have

997
00:42:14,144 --> 00:42:15,984
Speaker 2: the love that's right here, and he went the other way,

998
00:42:16,024 --> 00:42:18,624
Speaker 2: which is just like human nature, and that's why he

999
00:42:18,664 --> 00:42:20,744
Speaker 2: lost her in the shootout. And he has this moment

1000
00:42:20,784 --> 00:42:22,304
Speaker 2: where you know he's trying to save her and it's

1001
00:42:22,304 --> 00:42:24,544
Speaker 2: meant to show that he is not this like kind

1002
00:42:24,544 --> 00:42:27,104
Speaker 2: of villainous person, even though he's just shot dead his

1003
00:42:27,224 --> 00:42:29,344
Speaker 2: father without knowing. It's meant to give them like a

1004
00:42:29,384 --> 00:42:31,544
Speaker 2: bit of redemption. And also I think it was meant

1005
00:42:31,584 --> 00:42:33,664
Speaker 2: to be like tragically beautiful. I don't know if anyone

1006
00:42:33,664 --> 00:42:35,624
Speaker 2: took it that way, but because when you see the

1007
00:42:35,624 --> 00:42:38,424
Speaker 2: first episode there deaths through Zion's eyes and he sees

1008
00:42:38,464 --> 00:42:41,184
Speaker 2: these bodies floating, and it seems like it'll be really

1009
00:42:41,224 --> 00:42:43,904
Speaker 2: horrific and that you'll see these like bloody mess of

1010
00:42:43,984 --> 00:42:46,544
Speaker 2: people floating in the water. But when we finally get

1011
00:42:46,584 --> 00:42:48,824
Speaker 2: to the last episode and you see their bodies, it's

1012
00:42:48,864 --> 00:42:51,864
Speaker 2: almost like they're lying peacefully. Yeah, And they're wrapped around

1013
00:42:51,904 --> 00:42:54,664
Speaker 2: each other like the year Agang smiling the year Yeah.

1014
00:42:54,704 --> 00:42:56,944
Speaker 2: They're wrapped together like a loose depiction of the Ying

1015
00:42:56,984 --> 00:42:59,224
Speaker 2: and Yang Singbol to show that they're two opposites who

1016
00:42:59,264 --> 00:43:02,024
Speaker 2: have come together. And because they pretty much die side

1017
00:43:02,024 --> 00:43:05,304
Speaker 2: by side in the water together and their blood's intermingling,

1018
00:43:05,344 --> 00:43:08,664
Speaker 2: it's meant to show that Chelsea's prediction was correct, that

1019
00:43:08,704 --> 00:43:11,064
Speaker 2: they'll be together forever in this life and the next.

1020
00:43:11,144 --> 00:43:13,144
Speaker 2: And so it's almost like they give her a happy

1021
00:43:13,264 --> 00:43:15,184
Speaker 2: ending because she got what she wanted, But no one

1022
00:43:15,224 --> 00:43:16,304
Speaker 2: wanted that.

1023
00:43:16,344 --> 00:43:19,304
Speaker 1: I didn't even put that together. And I think when

1024
00:43:19,424 --> 00:43:22,664
Speaker 1: Rick killed his father, I knew that Rick had to

1025
00:43:22,704 --> 00:43:24,744
Speaker 1: die because the thing that the White Lotus does is

1026
00:43:24,784 --> 00:43:27,944
Speaker 1: like someone always gets murdered, but then no one is

1027
00:43:27,984 --> 00:43:30,464
Speaker 1: ever held accountable. Yeah, like they're all of this like

1028
00:43:30,584 --> 00:43:34,584
Speaker 1: esteem privilege where they will never ever be like charged

1029
00:43:34,704 --> 00:43:37,584
Speaker 1: or anything. And that's happened from all the seasons, and

1030
00:43:37,624 --> 00:43:40,624
Speaker 1: that there was no way that Rick could live without facing.

1031
00:43:40,424 --> 00:43:42,704
Speaker 2: There exactly because you either have to have it be

1032
00:43:42,824 --> 00:43:45,944
Speaker 2: like an accidental death or the person escapes like Greg

1033
00:43:46,064 --> 00:43:49,224
Speaker 2: or like Rick there also killed in the shootout of

1034
00:43:49,264 --> 00:43:51,304
Speaker 2: that idea. Yeah, it's almost like every season has to

1035
00:43:51,304 --> 00:43:54,024
Speaker 2: finish and we can't have this idea that like illegal

1036
00:43:54,064 --> 00:43:56,664
Speaker 2: proceedings happening afterwards and someone's being charged. It has to

1037
00:43:56,704 --> 00:44:00,424
Speaker 2: come together in this final moment and that last thing

1038
00:44:00,504 --> 00:44:02,344
Speaker 2: of them all in the boat going off together. And

1039
00:44:02,384 --> 00:44:04,104
Speaker 2: I know there's been like a lot of criticism over

1040
00:44:04,184 --> 00:44:06,184
Speaker 2: like why so many of them smiling when they just

1041
00:44:06,224 --> 00:44:08,104
Speaker 2: witness to death, But I think it's also just showing

1042
00:44:08,184 --> 00:44:09,984
Speaker 2: like I don't know, the three women were hugging each other,

1043
00:44:10,344 --> 00:44:12,224
Speaker 2: I felt like they were very much still in like her.

1044
00:44:12,304 --> 00:44:16,824
Speaker 1: They were post thanks for it exactly, Harry running for

1045
00:44:16,864 --> 00:44:18,544
Speaker 1: her life like she like.

1046
00:44:18,864 --> 00:44:21,584
Speaker 2: Cartoons, so she's like, sorry, I'm a New Yorker, I

1047
00:44:21,664 --> 00:44:23,424
Speaker 2: hat gun shots, I run, I know what to do.

1048
00:44:23,864 --> 00:44:25,624
Speaker 2: But I thought that was also just showing that these

1049
00:44:25,664 --> 00:44:28,184
Speaker 2: people who had had this week in this crazy place

1050
00:44:28,224 --> 00:44:29,984
Speaker 2: at the end of the day had changed a little bit,

1051
00:44:30,024 --> 00:44:32,944
Speaker 2: but not really, They've never changed. They're all just thinking

1052
00:44:33,264 --> 00:44:34,624
Speaker 2: for like a week, they're all the hero of their

1053
00:44:34,624 --> 00:44:36,344
Speaker 2: own story. They're all like on the boat being like,

1054
00:44:36,344 --> 00:44:38,504
Speaker 2: I've a changed person, I've come back, instead of not

1055
00:44:38,584 --> 00:44:41,824
Speaker 2: realizing what's happened. So look, overall, I'd say, like a

1056
00:44:41,864 --> 00:44:44,584
Speaker 2: good season, my favorite, Well again, not my favorite, but

1057
00:44:44,624 --> 00:44:45,304
Speaker 2: I still enjoyed it.

1058
00:44:46,024 --> 00:44:48,704
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to The Spill today.

1059
00:44:48,744 --> 00:44:50,944
Speaker 1: The Spill is produced by ned Green with some production

1060
00:44:51,024 --> 00:44:52,664
Speaker 1: by Scott's Stronik. And We'll be back here on your

1061
00:44:52,664 --> 00:45:00,664
Speaker 1: podcast feed at three pm on Monday. Bye bye.