WEBVTT - Amanda Keller & Anita McGregor Know How Lucky They Are 0:00:10.287 --> 0:00:14.807 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. Mamma Mea acknowledges 0:00:14.847 --> 0:00:17.567 the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast 0:00:17.647 --> 0:00:22.047 is recorded on. I met my soulmate when I was eleven. 0:00:23.007 --> 0:00:25.767 The way I remember it is that our respective mothers 0:00:25.807 --> 0:00:28.247 banned us from going to some party or other, and 0:00:28.367 --> 0:00:31.647 instead it was suggested that we have a sleepover together. 0:00:32.567 --> 0:00:38.447 We were furious forty two years later, and any time 0:00:38.687 --> 0:00:41.007 I get to have a sleepover with my best and 0:00:41.127 --> 0:00:45.247 oldest friend Lindsey, I will take it. It doesn't happen 0:00:45.287 --> 0:00:48.447 often because we live on opposite sides of the world. 0:00:48.887 --> 0:00:51.887 When I was twenty three, Lindsay was at London's Heathrow 0:00:51.967 --> 0:00:55.207 Airport to wave me off as I traveled to Australia 0:00:55.327 --> 0:01:00.607 for a year long traveling adventure. We cried and we cried, 0:01:01.527 --> 0:01:07.367 and that year has turned into thirty thirty years. And 0:01:07.487 --> 0:01:10.047 yet if we get the opportunity I need to spend 0:01:10.087 --> 0:01:13.927 even a few days together anywhere in the world, those 0:01:14.087 --> 0:01:18.287 days are worth years, and we still cry at airports. 0:01:19.287 --> 0:01:21.847 I also, as a fifty three year old woman, still 0:01:21.887 --> 0:01:24.767 have regular sleepovers with another great maid of mine, Penny. 0:01:25.367 --> 0:01:27.727 My treasure weekends away with a pick and mix bag 0:01:27.767 --> 0:01:30.767 of my closest friends. I have mates I message daily, 0:01:30.847 --> 0:01:33.727 and beloved ones I don't speak to for months. I 0:01:33.767 --> 0:01:36.647 have new friends I already can't imagine life without, and 0:01:36.767 --> 0:01:39.887 friends I share professional passions with to whom I owe 0:01:39.927 --> 0:01:43.407 a great deal. I'm bragging now, and you know it, 0:01:43.767 --> 0:01:46.287 because friendship, if you're lucky enough to have it in 0:01:46.327 --> 0:01:50.007 your life, is the greatest privilege of all and the 0:01:50.047 --> 0:01:53.647 thing that makes an enormous difference to our happiness and 0:01:53.687 --> 0:01:57.087 our well being. And one of the profound joys of 0:01:57.127 --> 0:02:00.447 getting older is getting to write new pages into your 0:02:00.487 --> 0:02:05.487 friendship histories. The landmark birthdays, the losses and the struggles 0:02:05.527 --> 0:02:08.767 and the splits and the bad days all scroll out 0:02:08.807 --> 0:02:13.567 across pages that bound together tell us everything about ourselves 0:02:13.967 --> 0:02:18.487 and each other. I also have ex friends. You probably 0:02:18.527 --> 0:02:24.527 do too, relationships that ended mid sentence, leaving unsatisfying blank pages, 0:02:25.007 --> 0:02:28.287 and I've mourned them like old lovers, and I've wrestled 0:02:28.287 --> 0:02:30.607 with how to heal rifts may be left too long 0:02:30.647 --> 0:02:34.447 to revive because friends are the loves of our lives. 0:02:34.807 --> 0:02:39.167 As the iconic, aspirational, sometimes toxic Carrie Bradshaw's Girl Gang 0:02:39.247 --> 0:02:42.487 told us back when we were young, and in the 0:02:42.527 --> 0:02:45.167 manner of loves of our lives, they run the gamut 0:02:45.247 --> 0:02:47.927 of being the best and worst of us. They lift 0:02:47.967 --> 0:02:51.767 you higher, and they break your fucking heart, and respect 0:02:51.967 --> 0:02:56.047 must be paid. Here's a raised, steaming tea mug to 0:02:56.127 --> 0:02:58.687 the friend you can itch your hormone patch in front of. 0:02:59.087 --> 0:02:59.967 Who will walk. 0:02:59.767 --> 0:03:03.607 Beside you in your stupid weighted vest, who will congratulate 0:03:03.647 --> 0:03:06.967 you for your teeny weeney tomato harvest and agree that 0:03:07.007 --> 0:03:09.607 your partner is a dickhead today and a hero tomorrow. 0:03:10.247 --> 0:03:13.687 Who sees you through your job, through your children, through 0:03:13.727 --> 0:03:16.247 what your body's doing today. Who knows your mum's not 0:03:16.327 --> 0:03:19.647 been well, Who knows when your next appointment is. Who 0:03:19.647 --> 0:03:21.767 knows when to ask if you're okay and when to 0:03:21.807 --> 0:03:24.367 shut the hell up. Who dropped the meme of your 0:03:24.407 --> 0:03:26.727 dreams in the group chat on a bad day, and 0:03:26.767 --> 0:03:28.447 will sing in the car with you at the top 0:03:28.487 --> 0:03:32.127 of your terrible voices when life feels right. The friends 0:03:32.127 --> 0:03:35.607 who know the backstory, who indulge your tantrums just enough. 0:03:36.367 --> 0:03:39.207 To the deep grown up friendships and the ones forged 0:03:39.247 --> 0:03:42.847 over silly shared enthusiasms. To the ones who live next 0:03:42.887 --> 0:03:45.407 door and the ones on the other side of the world, 0:03:46.127 --> 0:03:50.807 and the ones who aren't here anymore. Soul mates. 0:03:50.967 --> 0:03:55.327 All Hello, I'm Holly. 0:03:55.047 --> 0:04:00.527 Wainwright and I am Mid Midlife, mid Family, mid Midlife 0:04:00.607 --> 0:04:03.607 Crisis number eight. We've been away for a while, and 0:04:03.647 --> 0:04:06.567 now we're back. This is season four of Mid, the 0:04:06.607 --> 0:04:09.407 show for gen X women who are anything but, And 0:04:09.487 --> 0:04:12.407 over the next eight episodes, I'm going to be talking 0:04:12.407 --> 0:04:14.687 to grown up women, some of whom you know, some 0:04:14.767 --> 0:04:17.127 you'll be meeting for the first time, who have great 0:04:17.167 --> 0:04:20.247 stories and spot on insights into the things that make 0:04:20.367 --> 0:04:23.207 a life. I always say we've got no time or 0:04:23.247 --> 0:04:25.327 tolerance for small talk by the time we get here, 0:04:25.647 --> 0:04:29.367 but that doesn't mean everything is heavy, quite the opposite. 0:04:29.447 --> 0:04:32.167 I know that right now I'm searching for conversations that 0:04:32.287 --> 0:04:35.207 cheer me, that soothe me, that make me laugh, make 0:04:35.247 --> 0:04:38.767 me hopeful, distract me from the enormous and tiny challenges 0:04:39.007 --> 0:04:42.207 that we're all wading through every day in our real 0:04:42.247 --> 0:04:45.567 lives and out in the big scary world. Some of 0:04:45.607 --> 0:04:48.487 the conversations we've got for you here are about things 0:04:48.607 --> 0:04:52.167 like shamefree sex, and falling in love again after a 0:04:52.207 --> 0:04:56.367 big split, about reinvention after a massive career crash, about 0:04:56.407 --> 0:05:00.407 caring for our aging parents, and about hair and a 0:05:00.447 --> 0:05:02.807 lot more too. So I hope you're going to love 0:05:02.887 --> 0:05:07.407 season four. But today I'm having a conversation about something 0:05:07.447 --> 0:05:10.207 I've been dying to talk about with people I've been 0:05:10.327 --> 0:05:13.887 dying to talk to. I think you probably all know 0:05:13.927 --> 0:05:16.807 who Amanda Keller is. I'll tell you really quickly just 0:05:16.847 --> 0:05:20.487 in case, that she's an accomplished and experienced media everything. 0:05:20.847 --> 0:05:23.847 She's a TV host and an award winning, rating topping 0:05:23.887 --> 0:05:27.247 breakfast radio legend. But I'm going to stop talking because 0:05:27.287 --> 0:05:29.087 what I've got Amanda to come in and tell us 0:05:29.087 --> 0:05:31.927 about was none of that, really, even though we obviously 0:05:31.967 --> 0:05:34.967 go there a little bit. I invited her and her 0:05:35.047 --> 0:05:38.607 best friend to come in and talk about friendship. The 0:05:38.647 --> 0:05:42.567 person sitting beside Amanda in this conversation is her equally 0:05:42.607 --> 0:05:46.607 accomplished and impressive best friend, Anita McGregor. The two make 0:05:46.647 --> 0:05:49.687 their own podcasts together, which you'll hear about, obviously, but 0:05:49.807 --> 0:05:52.567 I predict that five minutes into this you'll be as 0:05:52.607 --> 0:05:56.967 obsessed with Anita as I am, and with their friendship. 0:05:57.407 --> 0:05:59.807 And now I really am going to stop talking because 0:05:59.807 --> 0:06:02.287 the first thing I asked Amanda and Nita to do 0:06:02.847 --> 0:06:05.687 was to introduce each other through a best friend's eyes 0:06:05.927 --> 0:06:06.207 to you. 0:06:07.887 --> 0:06:12.527 Yes, Anita McGregor, by profession is a forensic psychologist. I 0:06:12.567 --> 0:06:16.287 only mentioned the profession is because it gives her an 0:06:16.327 --> 0:06:20.207 insight into society that many of us wouldn't normally have, 0:06:20.967 --> 0:06:23.927 and you do it with such kindness. I'm always amazed 0:06:24.087 --> 0:06:27.687 at the respect you give your clients. These are people 0:06:27.727 --> 0:06:30.407 who are before the courts, people who have transgressed, people 0:06:30.407 --> 0:06:33.367 who might be major sex offenders, people who are living 0:06:33.367 --> 0:06:36.727 really tough lives. And the delicacy with which you treat 0:06:36.807 --> 0:06:40.367 them and the respect you give them and their place 0:06:40.407 --> 0:06:45.727 in society, I find is a very refreshing take. So 0:06:45.847 --> 0:06:48.887 that's why you're a very interesting person to have in 0:06:48.927 --> 0:06:53.367 the room to reflect on anyone talking about society, life, rules, justice. 0:06:53.647 --> 0:06:57.527 You're a great calming voice, Thank you, And she's. 0:06:57.327 --> 0:07:02.727 A scragg favorite. 0:07:03.127 --> 0:07:06.487 The pressure is on them. Something nice about. 0:07:07.487 --> 0:07:09.047 That wasn't what was in my head. 0:07:10.367 --> 0:07:15.247 This is my friend Amanda Keller, who, gosh, I would 0:07:15.287 --> 0:07:19.087 imagine everyone in Australia knows of you that you are 0:07:19.207 --> 0:07:24.527 a radio broadcaster, you are a TV star. You are, 0:07:24.727 --> 0:07:27.287 but you are also more than that. You are a wife, 0:07:27.447 --> 0:07:30.967 You are a mother. You are a great friend, an 0:07:30.967 --> 0:07:34.407 intrepid walker with me. You are all those things. And 0:07:35.247 --> 0:07:41.767 the thing that I think that is the most amazing 0:07:41.847 --> 0:07:44.927 quality of you is that when people ask you know, 0:07:45.127 --> 0:07:47.807 oh you know Amanda Keller, you know what she like? 0:07:47.967 --> 0:07:51.047 And I think my response is generally, you know how 0:07:51.167 --> 0:07:54.087 kind and generous she seems, you know on the air 0:07:55.127 --> 0:07:58.487 on the TV. That's exactly what you get. She is 0:07:58.607 --> 0:08:00.927 kind and she is generous and I love her. 0:08:01.047 --> 0:08:05.727 Oh it's lovely. And she didn't use the wood, not 0:08:05.927 --> 0:08:06.807 even once. 0:08:07.527 --> 0:08:12.367 Beautiful. You're from Canada, I am. And you met Amanda 0:08:12.447 --> 0:08:15.607 quite early in your time in Australia, within about a month. 0:08:15.687 --> 0:08:17.407 Can you tell me how we met? Story? 0:08:17.607 --> 0:08:21.647 Oh, so we meet cute, I meet cute. Yes, So 0:08:22.607 --> 0:08:25.607 we had moved here. It was supposed to be like 0:08:25.647 --> 0:08:28.207 a two year adventure. My husband had been offered a 0:08:28.807 --> 0:08:31.967 contract to work and I thought, oh, it's going to 0:08:31.967 --> 0:08:34.287 be just such a fun thing. 0:08:34.687 --> 0:08:35.567 I didn't know a soul. 0:08:35.607 --> 0:08:39.767 I'd never been here, and we had rented a place 0:08:39.807 --> 0:08:44.247 in Coujie at the recommendation of one of my husband's workmates, 0:08:44.847 --> 0:08:47.447 and we had just got all the shipment in I 0:08:47.607 --> 0:08:51.047 was exhausted, and I went for a massage with a 0:08:51.087 --> 0:08:54.527 friend of ours, Jackie Racist, and she said, oh, you're 0:08:54.567 --> 0:08:57.527 new here, why don't you come. There's a Dancing with 0:08:57.567 --> 0:08:59.767 the Stars on which I didn't know. I had no 0:08:59.847 --> 0:09:03.447 idea what the show was. And my friend Amanda is 0:09:03.567 --> 0:09:07.207 dancing in it. Why don't you come over and watch this? 0:09:07.447 --> 0:09:10.127 And I thought this is weird, but I went and 0:09:10.167 --> 0:09:10.687 I watched. 0:09:10.887 --> 0:09:13.327 Because you didn't know Jackie either. I don't know how Jackie, 0:09:13.447 --> 0:09:15.527 you had to step over the friendship divide with her 0:09:15.567 --> 0:09:16.047 to beginning. 0:09:16.167 --> 0:09:19.967 Yes, absolutely, And so saw you on Dancing with the Stars, 0:09:20.047 --> 0:09:22.967 had no idea, and then you invited us out to 0:09:23.927 --> 0:09:26.967 it was a charity thing, and I went out and 0:09:26.967 --> 0:09:29.927 met you there and all these people were pointing and going, 0:09:29.967 --> 0:09:34.087 that's Amanda Keller. I had no idea. And then, you know, 0:09:34.167 --> 0:09:36.407 so we just kind of got to know each other 0:09:36.687 --> 0:09:42.047 that way, with me just being completely naive to you know, 0:09:42.087 --> 0:09:46.687 the world of Amanda Keller, and which was really actually 0:09:46.767 --> 0:09:48.647 kind of a nice way to do it, because I, 0:09:49.007 --> 0:09:51.847 you know, I think I would have probably been intimidated 0:09:51.887 --> 0:09:54.567 or weirded out or something, and I just wasn't. And 0:09:54.687 --> 0:09:59.647 so yeah, and then we started started dating friendship, dating friendship. 0:09:59.687 --> 0:10:02.327 When you're new in a new country, you have some 0:10:02.367 --> 0:10:04.287 friendship vacancies that need filling. 0:10:04.407 --> 0:10:08.367 Oh, it's a scary thing. This is on the one hand, 0:10:08.847 --> 0:10:12.247 there's just this I can be whoever I want. But 0:10:12.287 --> 0:10:16.287 on the other hand, it's like nobody knows. Like those 0:10:16.567 --> 0:10:19.887 friendships that you have with people that you've known since 0:10:19.927 --> 0:10:23.207 you've been kids or university or kids, you know, when 0:10:23.247 --> 0:10:26.807 you've had kids, and there's this kind of shorthand that 0:10:26.887 --> 0:10:29.487 you have as a friend. And I didn't have any 0:10:29.527 --> 0:10:32.127 of that. So there it was a double edged sword 0:10:32.247 --> 0:10:33.487 for for quite a while. 0:10:33.607 --> 0:10:36.287 It's like nobody knows me, and it's like nobody knows me. 0:10:38.367 --> 0:10:43.447 But Amanda, you presumably didn't necessarily have very many vacancies. 0:10:43.447 --> 0:10:44.527 How did Anita get. 0:10:47.007 --> 0:10:51.327 Questions? Actually's got an enormous checkbook. 0:10:54.127 --> 0:10:55.047 I'm for assistance. 0:10:56.967 --> 0:11:01.167 I just think there was some hugely common ground in 0:11:01.207 --> 0:11:04.807 our natures, maybe because I don't actually know how to 0:11:04.887 --> 0:11:09.087 answer that question. We would start to go for walks 0:11:09.087 --> 0:11:11.287 as a group, but as a group we would socialize, 0:11:11.767 --> 0:11:13.967 and then you and I kind of splinted off at 0:11:13.967 --> 0:11:19.447 some point and we'd go for weekly walks and just talk. 0:11:20.367 --> 0:11:22.087 And I don't know how to be more specific than that. 0:11:22.207 --> 0:11:25.087 It kind of just evolved, really that. It wasn't like 0:11:25.167 --> 0:11:27.087 we were starstruck with each other when we saw each 0:11:27.087 --> 0:11:30.847 other and fell in love. It just evolved. And often 0:11:30.847 --> 0:11:33.807 in those big groups you form your little factions within them. 0:11:33.967 --> 0:11:36.367 Factions is a harsh word, but your little friendship groups 0:11:36.407 --> 0:11:38.887 within them. And we kind of splint it off and 0:11:38.927 --> 0:11:40.727 made one of those a little satellite. 0:11:41.207 --> 0:11:43.727 And was there a moment when you kind of went, oh, 0:11:43.767 --> 0:11:46.167 we're definitely going to be friends or was it just 0:11:46.207 --> 0:11:49.847 that slow burn? Oh, I'm gonna I need to call Anita. 0:11:49.887 --> 0:11:52.287 I want to tell Anita that like that kind of thing. 0:11:52.967 --> 0:11:55.087 I really think it was a slow burn. 0:11:55.807 --> 0:11:59.007 I think so too. And it's interesting how much when 0:11:59.007 --> 0:12:02.687 people meet Anita as a psychologist, I'm speaking for you, 0:12:02.727 --> 0:12:04.927 but I reckon you probably a seeker, People saying don't 0:12:04.967 --> 0:12:08.887 analyze me, thinking that that's what she'll do. And I 0:12:08.967 --> 0:12:10.927 laugh when I hear that. But at the same time, 0:12:11.167 --> 0:12:13.767 I find it so interesting that I blab about every 0:12:13.767 --> 0:12:16.927 single thing to you in my life and you answer 0:12:16.927 --> 0:12:21.727 with friendship, never with I never feel your sounds terrible, 0:12:21.847 --> 0:12:22.767 never being professional. 0:12:23.847 --> 0:12:29.767 Your Sometimes I really am. 0:12:30.047 --> 0:12:32.567 There's never a you know, what you should do, there's 0:12:32.647 --> 0:12:34.927 never any of I never think, oh, that's right, you're 0:12:34.967 --> 0:12:38.687 a psychologist. I never ever feel that we meet as friends. 0:12:39.127 --> 0:12:41.287 And I don't know how you separate the two. I 0:12:41.287 --> 0:12:42.167 don't know how you do that. 0:12:43.247 --> 0:12:46.167 I you know, I think for the most part the 0:12:47.127 --> 0:12:50.367 it well, because I've been a psychologist for over thirty years, 0:12:50.407 --> 0:12:53.327 like half my life, more than half my life, that 0:12:53.607 --> 0:13:00.007 it's you know, just the that main idea about I'm 0:13:00.047 --> 0:13:02.327 going to listen is, you know, that's kind of my 0:13:02.447 --> 0:13:04.527 life as a psychologist, but it's also my life as 0:13:04.527 --> 0:13:07.327 a friend. And I you know, I don't give advice 0:13:07.367 --> 0:13:11.087 to my clients either, really, so it feels pretty comfortable 0:13:11.287 --> 0:13:12.087 in doing that. 0:13:13.127 --> 0:13:15.127 I think some people would be really jealous that you're 0:13:15.127 --> 0:13:19.567 best friends are psychologists, because you would imagine that you'd 0:13:19.567 --> 0:13:22.487 be like, you know, we all go through things, particularly 0:13:22.487 --> 0:13:27.847 midlife can get very rolling coastry, and you're like free therapy. 0:13:27.887 --> 0:13:31.967 But it's interesting, it never feels like therapy. But though 0:13:31.967 --> 0:13:35.607 maybe subconsciously, and I don't know if it's subconscious for you, 0:13:35.807 --> 0:13:38.647 but maybe you're like a border collie, like my dog 0:13:38.727 --> 0:13:41.607 that kind of just subtly hurts me somewhere. Yeah, and 0:13:41.647 --> 0:13:42.687 I'm not even aware of it. 0:13:42.807 --> 0:13:45.967 I was listening to your show recently, to double a Chattery, 0:13:46.367 --> 0:13:48.407 and I think, Amanda, you were talking about and I've 0:13:48.447 --> 0:13:51.767 been doing this too, reframing I have to with I 0:13:52.167 --> 0:13:55.767 get to gratitude. And I was listening to your conversation, 0:13:56.367 --> 0:13:58.367 and if I was in your shoes, Amandra would have 0:13:58.367 --> 0:14:00.327 been looking for approval from Anita. 0:14:00.007 --> 0:14:00.727 On that like that. 0:14:00.847 --> 0:14:02.887 She goes, that's very good. 0:14:03.047 --> 0:14:03.327 I know. 0:14:03.727 --> 0:14:06.687 I find myself saying to her, I read this incredible 0:14:06.767 --> 0:14:11.647 theme in Dolly Dizine, like I must tell you the 0:14:11.647 --> 0:14:14.727 most basic psychological things I've read in you, and like 0:14:14.767 --> 0:14:16.767 I've been seeing this incredible person. She said, I should 0:14:16.767 --> 0:14:19.647 try this and you must go. 0:14:19.647 --> 0:14:22.767 God. But you were great, Anita, because you said something 0:14:22.847 --> 0:14:24.887 like and how's it going for you? Like, which is 0:14:25.407 --> 0:14:28.087 a therapistic thing to say in a way, but but 0:14:28.167 --> 0:14:30.807 exactly what you need and you are like, it's helping, 0:14:30.927 --> 0:14:34.727 it's helping. So I imagine that that is it's not a 0:14:34.847 --> 0:14:37.127 deliberate dynamic, but it must be great. 0:14:37.807 --> 0:14:40.647 But I never feel self conscious saying to Anita the dumbest, 0:14:40.847 --> 0:14:44.367 most basic way I cope with anything, and you never 0:14:44.447 --> 0:14:46.967 make me feel judged and sometimes like it's only now 0:14:47.007 --> 0:14:50.207 talking to you, Holly, I think, Yeah, actually, how embarrassing 0:14:50.487 --> 0:14:53.727 that I've said to Anita. Here's some interesting psychology you 0:14:53.767 --> 0:14:59.567 probably haven't heard of. You be grateful apparently it's really 0:15:00.087 --> 0:15:02.967 let me introduce you to Anita for an excellent concept. 0:15:03.007 --> 0:15:03.647 Let's try that. 0:15:04.167 --> 0:15:07.007 Well, at the risk of doing the same thing to 0:15:07.047 --> 0:15:07.807 it now. 0:15:09.607 --> 0:15:10.167 I was going to. 0:15:10.207 --> 0:15:12.567 Say that there's a lot of studies out there that 0:15:12.567 --> 0:15:15.447 friendship is absolutely crucial to our mental health, right and connection, 0:15:15.567 --> 0:15:18.527 and there's a lot of sort of handringing about that. 0:15:18.687 --> 0:15:20.807 Maybe as a community, as a world, we're getting less 0:15:20.807 --> 0:15:25.407 connected and we're finding friendships harder because we fear the 0:15:25.527 --> 0:15:27.527 judgment that comes with it, or we're not sure how 0:15:27.527 --> 0:15:30.367 to connect, or we're just not in the same physical 0:15:30.407 --> 0:15:35.007 spaces to connect. I mean, what do you inter One 0:15:35.087 --> 0:15:36.847 of the things that mid listeners tell me all the 0:15:36.847 --> 0:15:38.967 time is it's their girlfriends often I mean their friends, 0:15:38.967 --> 0:15:40.967 but their girlfriends often that save them, that get them 0:15:40.967 --> 0:15:43.927 through the hard times. Do you think that we're in 0:15:43.967 --> 0:15:47.007 a crisis of connection? And are we right to think 0:15:47.007 --> 0:15:49.247 that our friendships are the things that keep us saying. 0:15:49.287 --> 0:15:50.727 There's a big part of me that would just like 0:15:50.847 --> 0:15:53.087 to answer, yes, it's a crisis, we need you know, 0:15:53.527 --> 0:15:56.607 we've really disconnected and all that. But I was actually 0:15:56.647 --> 0:16:00.887 just recently reading some research that really delighted me that 0:16:01.087 --> 0:16:04.087 was talking about It was mostly about adolescent mental health, 0:16:04.567 --> 0:16:07.807 but what they were talking about is that often we're 0:16:07.847 --> 0:16:09.007 looking about like how many. 0:16:08.807 --> 0:16:09.487 Friends do we have? 0:16:09.647 --> 0:16:13.647 And you know, but the research actually is much more 0:16:13.687 --> 0:16:18.527 supportive of having one or two really good friends, and 0:16:18.927 --> 0:16:21.607 because once you get into a bigger like any more 0:16:21.647 --> 0:16:24.727 than three or four and we've all been there where 0:16:24.847 --> 0:16:27.287 you get into a bigger friendship group and it does 0:16:27.327 --> 0:16:29.927 split into like not I know you were saying factions, 0:16:29.967 --> 0:16:31.287 and sometimes. 0:16:30.807 --> 0:16:33.887 It is, but it's you know, it's like she likes me. 0:16:33.887 --> 0:16:37.047 Better, and you know, you've get all the way left again. 0:16:37.087 --> 0:16:38.447 I wasn't invited on that wall. 0:16:38.847 --> 0:16:42.087 Yeah yeah, or you know, they've they've organized to do 0:16:42.167 --> 0:16:45.287 something and I'm not there, And especially with social media, 0:16:45.327 --> 0:16:49.247 that can be so hurtful. So I actually was really 0:16:50.007 --> 0:16:53.847 encouraged by the idea that yes, there is a disconnection, 0:16:54.087 --> 0:16:56.527 and yet the answer isn't I need one hundred friends 0:16:56.567 --> 0:16:58.967 and I need to be out and doing things every night. 0:16:59.407 --> 0:17:03.847 The idea sometimes, I think, is more about finding those 0:17:04.247 --> 0:17:07.487 those opportunities to get deeper with somebody, to be a 0:17:07.567 --> 0:17:10.487 little bit vulnerable with somebody, and to see whether you 0:17:10.527 --> 0:17:13.207 can create that friendship you know, like you know, sometimes 0:17:13.247 --> 0:17:15.647 it's not, you know, just falling in love in a friendship, 0:17:15.687 --> 0:17:18.927 but it's sometimes it is that slow burn. And you know, 0:17:18.967 --> 0:17:21.487 there's there's also riches that research that says you need 0:17:21.527 --> 0:17:24.367 to spend about one thousand hours with somebody to actually 0:17:24.407 --> 0:17:28.287 create that depth, that that history with each other. 0:17:28.287 --> 0:17:30.247 It's one thousand hours a lot puts. What's that in 0:17:30.287 --> 0:17:32.847 a context of a week or a year. I can't 0:17:32.847 --> 0:17:33.607 do the mets on it. 0:17:33.727 --> 0:17:34.967 I don't know, and I mean I don't know how 0:17:34.967 --> 0:17:37.127 they count that. I mean, it's it is it just 0:17:37.167 --> 0:17:38.087 a text to each other? 0:17:38.167 --> 0:17:38.807 Does that count? 0:17:38.847 --> 0:17:40.887 But I mean, I think that we can connect in 0:17:40.927 --> 0:17:42.487 a lot of different ways now. 0:17:42.447 --> 0:17:47.847 Because people worry about their friendship connections faltering as life changes. Right, 0:17:47.927 --> 0:17:49.687 so you two have been friends for the best part 0:17:49.727 --> 0:17:53.487 of two decades. Right, Busy people, big jobs in different ways, 0:17:54.087 --> 0:17:57.167 How practically do you stay connected to your friends? Is 0:17:57.247 --> 0:18:02.887 like little kids to big kids. Career shifts, geographical moves 0:18:02.927 --> 0:18:06.687 like are you schedule people? Are you like it's every Wednesday? 0:18:07.007 --> 0:18:08.487 I mean, how do you do It's interesting? 0:18:10.407 --> 0:18:12.527 Before I get to how we do it, I often 0:18:12.567 --> 0:18:14.687 feel anxiety around the fact I'm not very good at 0:18:14.727 --> 0:18:17.407 it with a lot of people, and a text may 0:18:17.447 --> 0:18:19.847 come up let's get together, and I have a panic 0:18:19.887 --> 0:18:22.967 over it. I never do that with you, Anita, And 0:18:23.007 --> 0:18:24.887 there are some friends where you go I'll get to you, 0:18:24.927 --> 0:18:28.047 and I can get to you, or let's put it 0:18:28.087 --> 0:18:30.887 in the diary for the future. I don't have time 0:18:30.967 --> 0:18:34.607 right now that can fill me with anxiety, so I 0:18:34.647 --> 0:18:38.607 can limit my work. But sometimes it's the social stuff 0:18:38.647 --> 0:18:41.127 that I find I'm not very good at limiting, and 0:18:41.167 --> 0:18:42.207 that makes me panic. 0:18:43.127 --> 0:18:44.407 I feel the same way. 0:18:44.767 --> 0:18:46.567 And one of the reasons why we bought a place 0:18:46.567 --> 0:18:48.127 on the South Coast was so that I could say 0:18:48.127 --> 0:18:50.687 I'm not here this week because I will fill every 0:18:50.687 --> 0:18:52.767 gap if people ask me to, whether I want to 0:18:52.887 --> 0:18:53.087 or not. 0:18:53.407 --> 0:18:57.687 Do you fill the gaps because you feel anxious to 0:18:57.687 --> 0:18:58.487 have the space. 0:18:58.287 --> 0:19:00.127 Or do you feel gaps as a people? Please fill 0:19:00.167 --> 0:19:03.047 the ga people please? And not wanting to let people down. 0:19:03.087 --> 0:19:04.487 And they're my friends and I haven't seen them for 0:19:04.527 --> 0:19:05.927 a while that's what friends do, but. 0:19:06.247 --> 0:19:10.287 You have gotten much better, or at least with me, I'm 0:19:10.327 --> 0:19:14.087 saying no of you know, kind of saying I don't 0:19:14.127 --> 0:19:15.647 want to do this now, or I can't do this, 0:19:15.767 --> 0:19:17.607 or I don't have the energy, or those kinds of 0:19:17.727 --> 0:19:21.247 which is you know, I think a lovely thing that 0:19:21.327 --> 0:19:25.487 friends can do with each other. But we and we're 0:19:25.567 --> 0:19:28.647 not exactly schedule people, but other than we have a 0:19:28.727 --> 0:19:32.287 standing date at least once on the weekend to go 0:19:32.367 --> 0:19:34.047 for a while when we're in town. 0:19:34.167 --> 0:19:37.167 And now that you've moved further away, that now involves 0:19:37.167 --> 0:19:38.927 a car. We used to just meet down at the 0:19:38.927 --> 0:19:40.887 beach and go for a walk, so one of us 0:19:40.927 --> 0:19:42.327 has to get up half an hour earlier and be 0:19:42.567 --> 0:19:45.167 ready earlier. The first time I went to Anita's new 0:19:45.167 --> 0:19:46.807 place with my dog, I. 0:19:46.887 --> 0:19:48.567 Was very rude of her to move and I could 0:19:48.567 --> 0:19:52.407 feel it. Anita, you moved like a few so you've 0:19:52.447 --> 0:19:53.407 moved across town. 0:19:53.647 --> 0:19:55.687 Yes, it's probably about half an hour away. Twenty minutes. 0:19:55.767 --> 0:19:56.287 Twenty minutes. 0:19:56.407 --> 0:19:58.967 Well, my dog must have taken it very personally because 0:19:59.007 --> 0:20:00.607 when you went to Anita's new but she just had 0:20:00.607 --> 0:20:03.607 the carpets climed. Minnie has never done this before. She 0:20:03.687 --> 0:20:05.807 went in and did a giant wheel on their new car. 0:20:05.727 --> 0:20:08.687 Out it was it was awful, awful. 0:20:08.847 --> 0:20:12.407 But I've i'd also physically as things get harder for me, 0:20:12.567 --> 0:20:14.767 I've had two hit replacements and I've got a thritis 0:20:14.807 --> 0:20:16.367 in my back. We all do it some We've all 0:20:16.367 --> 0:20:18.967 got stuff. But there's some days we'll say to Anita, 0:20:19.167 --> 0:20:21.007 I had I was filming this week or whatever it is, 0:20:21.007 --> 0:20:23.007 and I stood up all week. I'm just too sort 0:20:23.007 --> 0:20:26.287 of go for a walk. So I'm being more diligent 0:20:26.407 --> 0:20:30.567 with myself in protecting myself. But I know I can 0:20:30.607 --> 0:20:33.847 say that to you, and with other people I may not. 0:20:34.127 --> 0:20:35.647 I know I can say to you, sorry about that. I 0:20:35.687 --> 0:20:37.007 just feel crap today. 0:20:37.527 --> 0:20:39.487 Do you think it's the mark of good friendship? I 0:20:39.527 --> 0:20:41.647 think I heard a conversation that you were where you 0:20:41.727 --> 0:20:45.127 were talking about how a good friendship is someone can 0:20:45.127 --> 0:20:46.527 come over to your house and you don't feel like 0:20:46.527 --> 0:20:48.367 you have to tidy. You know, you don't have to 0:20:48.367 --> 0:20:50.127 feel like you have to tidy the counters or whatever. 0:20:50.247 --> 0:20:51.967 I'm not a natural hostess. It sends me into a 0:20:52.007 --> 0:20:54.287 panic if somebody is coming to my house. But is 0:20:54.327 --> 0:20:57.287