1 00:00:21,650 --> 00:00:24,370 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mother a Mia podcast. 2 00:00:25,130 --> 00:00:28,450 Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land. We 3 00:00:28,530 --> 00:00:31,930 Speaker 2: have recorded this podcast on the Gatagul people of the 4 00:00:31,970 --> 00:00:35,690 Speaker 2: Eor nation. We pay our respects to their elders past 5 00:00:35,730 --> 00:00:39,370 Speaker 2: and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and 6 00:00:39,410 --> 00:00:41,130 Speaker 2: Torus s right islander cultures. 7 00:00:41,410 --> 00:00:45,930 Speaker 3: Hi, It's Grace from this Glorious mess. Introducing hot Pod Summer. 8 00:00:46,130 --> 00:00:49,210 Speaker 3: It's one hundred hours of curated listening across the Muma 9 00:00:49,290 --> 00:00:52,090 Speaker 3: Mea network, just for you to escape the chaos and 10 00:00:52,210 --> 00:00:54,810 Speaker 3: enjoy with the kids at home and the weather warming up. 11 00:00:54,970 --> 00:00:57,490 Speaker 3: We're going to share some episodes of Little Love Stories. 12 00:00:58,050 --> 00:01:01,450 Speaker 3: Little Love Stories is an open hearted conversation with someone 13 00:01:01,490 --> 00:01:04,010 Speaker 3: who has love to share that love can be anything, 14 00:01:04,130 --> 00:01:07,210 Speaker 3: a time in someone's life, a person, or even an object. 15 00:01:07,810 --> 00:01:10,810 Speaker 3: It's all about discovering the magic everywhere you look. So 16 00:01:10,850 --> 00:01:13,610 Speaker 3: I hope you enjoy this episode of Little Love Stories. 17 00:01:16,530 --> 00:01:23,330 Speaker 4: I love you how you live with your Hi. 18 00:01:23,450 --> 00:01:26,890 Speaker 3: I'm Grace Rifray and welcome to Little Love Stories. Before 19 00:01:26,930 --> 00:01:29,850 Speaker 3: you become mum or dad, you're just you. You have 20 00:01:29,890 --> 00:01:33,090 Speaker 3: a first name, a spontaneous social life, and the freedom 21 00:01:33,090 --> 00:01:36,290 Speaker 3: to pursue your career ambitions with no limits, even if 22 00:01:36,370 --> 00:01:39,330 Speaker 3: that means sometimes you're working maybe a sixteen to twenty 23 00:01:39,370 --> 00:01:42,490 Speaker 3: hour day. That was the life of Today's guest Beck 24 00:01:42,530 --> 00:01:44,330 Speaker 3: Bignol before she became a parent. 25 00:01:44,690 --> 00:01:47,570 Speaker 4: But yeah, I was feeling a little bit, I guess, 26 00:01:47,770 --> 00:01:50,850 Speaker 4: like I was on a never ending trademill, full of adrenaline, 27 00:01:51,050 --> 00:01:54,210 Speaker 4: moving through each project, aspiring to the next one. 28 00:01:54,650 --> 00:01:56,730 Speaker 1: It was very much about the doing. 29 00:01:57,130 --> 00:01:59,570 Speaker 3: When her first daughter, Evie was born in April twenty 30 00:01:59,610 --> 00:02:03,290 Speaker 3: twenty one, Beck tried to maintain her intense work identity 31 00:02:03,610 --> 00:02:07,210 Speaker 3: as the capable, dedicated career woman, all while stepping into 32 00:02:07,250 --> 00:02:09,490 Speaker 3: her new role as a present and nurturing mum. 33 00:02:09,810 --> 00:02:13,050 Speaker 4: What you're actually doing is duplicating, Like I sort of 34 00:02:13,090 --> 00:02:17,010 Speaker 4: felt like I had cloned a life that I was 35 00:02:17,090 --> 00:02:21,050 Speaker 4: now trying to like bring both of those in still 36 00:02:21,250 --> 00:02:23,690 Speaker 4: only with the constraints of the same amount of time. 37 00:02:23,930 --> 00:02:27,570 Speaker 4: So it actually just felt impossible, you know, and then 38 00:02:28,170 --> 00:02:30,970 Speaker 4: you start to not do things well and you feel 39 00:02:31,010 --> 00:02:32,490 Speaker 4: like you're doing everything badly. 40 00:02:32,810 --> 00:02:35,530 Speaker 3: Beck was determined to give one hundred percent to both, 41 00:02:36,210 --> 00:02:38,810 Speaker 3: but so many women ask this question, can we really 42 00:02:38,890 --> 00:02:41,970 Speaker 3: have it all? Or are we being set up to fail? 43 00:02:42,330 --> 00:02:45,170 Speaker 3: When you're striving to excel in everything. What slips through 44 00:02:45,170 --> 00:02:48,250 Speaker 3: the cracks. Often it's not the job or the family 45 00:02:48,290 --> 00:02:52,250 Speaker 3: obligations that give way. It's you, the person putting yourself 46 00:02:52,330 --> 00:02:55,770 Speaker 3: last to make it all work, until one day it doesn't. 47 00:02:56,250 --> 00:02:59,050 Speaker 4: I was like, oh, something bad's going to happen here, 48 00:02:59,090 --> 00:03:02,450 Speaker 4: Like I am literally burning the candle, Like I even 49 00:03:02,490 --> 00:03:05,330 Speaker 4: to the point where like to try and knit these 50 00:03:05,370 --> 00:03:08,530 Speaker 4: things together and not affect either part. 51 00:03:08,810 --> 00:03:11,210 Speaker 1: It is yourself that starts to implode. 52 00:03:11,210 --> 00:03:12,770 Speaker 4: You're like, I want to show up the best is 53 00:03:12,770 --> 00:03:14,890 Speaker 4: possible for my family and my kids. I want to 54 00:03:14,890 --> 00:03:18,050 Speaker 4: show up the best is possible for my colleagues. Something 55 00:03:18,370 --> 00:03:22,250 Speaker 4: is just by depaulty here going to have to take 56 00:03:22,290 --> 00:03:23,250 Speaker 4: the brunt of that. 57 00:03:23,770 --> 00:03:26,050 Speaker 3: For Beck, that wake up call came soon after the 58 00:03:26,130 --> 00:03:29,290 Speaker 3: arrival of her second daughter, Poppy. She was forced to 59 00:03:29,330 --> 00:03:32,530 Speaker 3: take a pause to reflect on the moments that truly 60 00:03:32,570 --> 00:03:36,050 Speaker 3: bought her happiness and found that career and family can 61 00:03:36,090 --> 00:03:40,810 Speaker 3: coexist if you're going after a feeling. Today's story is 62 00:03:40,810 --> 00:03:45,450 Speaker 3: a powerful journey of balancing identity and Beck finding fulfillment 63 00:03:45,610 --> 00:03:48,330 Speaker 3: on her own terms. But before we get there, I 64 00:03:48,370 --> 00:03:50,570 Speaker 3: asked the people in the Mum and Mere office about 65 00:03:50,570 --> 00:03:52,970 Speaker 3: a moment in their life where they felt truly happy. 66 00:03:53,610 --> 00:03:55,730 Speaker 5: It was after my partner and I had been together 67 00:03:55,850 --> 00:03:59,210 Speaker 5: for several months, just waking up next to him and 68 00:03:59,290 --> 00:04:02,930 Speaker 5: watching him peacefully sleep for a minute or two, realizing 69 00:04:03,010 --> 00:04:05,930 Speaker 5: I was completely in love with him, wondering why my 70 00:04:06,010 --> 00:04:08,850 Speaker 5: face was sore. It was because I'd been spying the 71 00:04:08,890 --> 00:04:09,450 Speaker 5: whole time. 72 00:04:09,810 --> 00:04:12,850 Speaker 6: It was the first day after I bought my first house. 73 00:04:13,170 --> 00:04:15,170 Speaker 6: You know that thing where you just don't have any furniture. 74 00:04:15,330 --> 00:04:17,330 Speaker 6: So we sat on the floor and we ate pizza, 75 00:04:17,450 --> 00:04:20,170 Speaker 6: And then it struck me that I don't have to 76 00:04:20,170 --> 00:04:22,930 Speaker 6: deal with my parents bothering me anymore if I come 77 00:04:22,970 --> 00:04:25,730 Speaker 6: home late. They don't ask me where I've been. I 78 00:04:25,770 --> 00:04:28,250 Speaker 6: don't have to fix their laptops. I've just got total 79 00:04:28,290 --> 00:04:29,450 Speaker 6: independence and freedom. 80 00:04:29,730 --> 00:04:32,250 Speaker 3: It was when I finally got the medication that I've 81 00:04:32,290 --> 00:04:35,050 Speaker 3: needed my whole life for my ADHD. 82 00:04:35,370 --> 00:04:38,410 Speaker 4: When I laughed so hard I cried, like the kind 83 00:04:38,410 --> 00:04:41,690 Speaker 4: of laugh that doesn't really stop because whatever made you 84 00:04:41,770 --> 00:04:43,210 Speaker 4: laugh is still plain in your mind. 85 00:04:43,770 --> 00:04:49,130 Speaker 1: It feels so good because you smile for hours. 86 00:04:49,770 --> 00:04:50,010 Speaker 6: Beck. 87 00:04:50,490 --> 00:04:52,330 Speaker 3: You grew up regionally, and I feel like there is 88 00:04:52,370 --> 00:04:55,890 Speaker 3: a stereotype around the jobs that people go on to 89 00:04:55,930 --> 00:04:57,650 Speaker 3: do if they grew up regionally or they grew up 90 00:04:57,650 --> 00:04:59,730 Speaker 3: in the bush, but you found yourself in the arts. 91 00:05:00,050 --> 00:05:02,370 Speaker 3: I'd love to know if there were aspects of growing 92 00:05:02,450 --> 00:05:05,450 Speaker 3: up regionally that fostered a love for the arts or 93 00:05:05,610 --> 00:05:07,370 Speaker 3: the potential for a career in the arts. 94 00:05:07,850 --> 00:05:11,090 Speaker 1: Yes, it's very true. I think I was really lucky. 95 00:05:11,450 --> 00:05:14,810 Speaker 4: I obviously am in the arts and in filmmaking, and 96 00:05:14,850 --> 00:05:19,410 Speaker 4: there definitely wasn't a lot of presence within my region 97 00:05:19,610 --> 00:05:22,450 Speaker 4: locally at the time for people in those jobs. But 98 00:05:22,650 --> 00:05:26,170 Speaker 4: I had grown up with a natural affinity for creativity 99 00:05:26,170 --> 00:05:30,090 Speaker 4: and imagination. I think because of space proximity to nature, 100 00:05:30,210 --> 00:05:33,450 Speaker 4: Like I would frequently go into the bush, so much 101 00:05:33,490 --> 00:05:35,210 Speaker 4: bush close to the house, and I. 102 00:05:35,210 --> 00:05:38,570 Speaker 1: Would just walk in and really drew a lot. 103 00:05:38,450 --> 00:05:41,930 Speaker 4: From things like the trees and you know, the crunchy 104 00:05:42,050 --> 00:05:45,810 Speaker 4: leaves underneath my feet. The textures of our region in 105 00:05:45,850 --> 00:05:47,770 Speaker 4: the Great Southern are like beautiful. 106 00:05:48,210 --> 00:05:49,250 Speaker 1: All of those things. 107 00:05:49,050 --> 00:05:50,930 Speaker 4: Really did inspire me, and I think I had the 108 00:05:51,010 --> 00:05:54,130 Speaker 4: space to breathe and take it in because there wasn't 109 00:05:54,170 --> 00:05:55,250 Speaker 4: a lot of distractions. 110 00:05:55,290 --> 00:05:59,130 Speaker 1: It was a very simple childhood. So I had some. 111 00:05:59,130 --> 00:06:02,090 Speaker 4: Incredible creative influences in my grandma, who was a writer, 112 00:06:02,410 --> 00:06:04,450 Speaker 4: and my mum always fostered it, and they would take 113 00:06:04,530 --> 00:06:06,650 Speaker 4: us to things like plays in the city, which was 114 00:06:06,730 --> 00:06:10,290 Speaker 4: such a big deal. Those things were my first love, 115 00:06:10,530 --> 00:06:13,170 Speaker 4: and I felt like I was supported to think that 116 00:06:13,170 --> 00:06:16,530 Speaker 4: that was a viable road to go down, even though 117 00:06:16,850 --> 00:06:19,250 Speaker 4: around me, you know, the traditional kind of jobs were 118 00:06:19,290 --> 00:06:23,410 Speaker 4: things like teachers, seeing farmers. I never felt like I 119 00:06:23,490 --> 00:06:27,130 Speaker 4: couldn't pursue what I wanted to. That clarity just has 120 00:06:27,130 --> 00:06:29,330 Speaker 4: stuck with me forever, and it really feels like it 121 00:06:29,410 --> 00:06:32,250 Speaker 4: is baked into my heart. So it's a clear kind 122 00:06:32,250 --> 00:06:35,050 Speaker 4: of compass for me, and it helps me like be 123 00:06:35,210 --> 00:06:37,330 Speaker 4: very true to what I want to. 124 00:06:37,330 --> 00:06:38,970 Speaker 1: Do, if that makes sense. I feel lucky. 125 00:06:38,970 --> 00:06:41,770 Speaker 4: I never had that kind of confusion at school, going oh, 126 00:06:41,810 --> 00:06:43,010 Speaker 4: I don't know what I want to do. 127 00:06:43,410 --> 00:06:45,970 Speaker 3: A lot of your little love story talks about feeling 128 00:06:46,330 --> 00:06:48,890 Speaker 3: and striving for a feeling rather than an arbitrary job 129 00:06:48,970 --> 00:06:51,090 Speaker 3: or an activity or a destination. But also so much 130 00:06:51,170 --> 00:06:54,010 Speaker 3: what you talk about is about a job, an activity, 131 00:06:54,090 --> 00:06:57,210 Speaker 3: or a destination. So I'd love to start by asking 132 00:06:57,250 --> 00:06:59,810 Speaker 3: you to describe the feeling that you were living with 133 00:06:59,930 --> 00:07:01,130 Speaker 3: before you had kids. 134 00:07:01,690 --> 00:07:04,570 Speaker 4: Yeah, I know, it's really interesting. I'm very emotional and 135 00:07:04,690 --> 00:07:08,290 Speaker 4: sensitive by nature, so feelings always bubble close to the 136 00:07:08,370 --> 00:07:10,890 Speaker 4: surface for me, and I think what I've been in 137 00:07:10,970 --> 00:07:14,210 Speaker 4: jobs that have been more inclined to need you to 138 00:07:14,250 --> 00:07:17,970 Speaker 4: suppress those feelings, I've struggled a bit because I've just 139 00:07:18,370 --> 00:07:20,530 Speaker 4: had to find a way to kind of numb those 140 00:07:20,730 --> 00:07:23,130 Speaker 4: feelings down so they don't emerge in like. 141 00:07:23,450 --> 00:07:25,250 Speaker 1: Meetings or things like that. 142 00:07:25,970 --> 00:07:28,450 Speaker 4: So prior to having kids, I think I had gone 143 00:07:28,490 --> 00:07:32,530 Speaker 4: through a bit of a process where I had wrangled 144 00:07:32,530 --> 00:07:34,730 Speaker 4: those feelings to an extent. I think I'd lost my 145 00:07:34,770 --> 00:07:36,450 Speaker 4: way a bit, and I thought, you know that what 146 00:07:36,490 --> 00:07:40,490 Speaker 4: I was aspiring to was almost like line items to 147 00:07:40,530 --> 00:07:40,970 Speaker 4: put on. 148 00:07:40,930 --> 00:07:42,730 Speaker 1: Your CV or your LinkedIn. 149 00:07:43,250 --> 00:07:45,530 Speaker 4: For me, I wasn't viewing it like that, but in reflection, 150 00:07:45,650 --> 00:07:47,250 Speaker 4: I think it sort of came a bit like that. 151 00:07:47,290 --> 00:07:49,250 Speaker 4: I think, you know, in film and TV you have 152 00:07:49,330 --> 00:07:52,130 Speaker 4: to acquire credits, and so you can get into that 153 00:07:52,290 --> 00:07:55,050 Speaker 4: habit of just searching. 154 00:07:54,610 --> 00:07:55,530 Speaker 1: For the next thing. 155 00:07:56,210 --> 00:07:58,330 Speaker 4: I really think I kind of got stuck in that 156 00:07:58,450 --> 00:08:01,690 Speaker 4: a little bit in terms of really taking on a 157 00:08:01,730 --> 00:08:04,930 Speaker 4: bit too much, finding it really difficult to know what 158 00:08:05,090 --> 00:08:07,930 Speaker 4: to say no to, what my capacity was, you know, 159 00:08:08,010 --> 00:08:09,770 Speaker 4: like you've only got twenty four hours in a day, 160 00:08:10,450 --> 00:08:11,810 Speaker 4: I think my worth as well. 161 00:08:11,850 --> 00:08:13,930 Speaker 1: I would take on more than I should have. 162 00:08:14,210 --> 00:08:16,770 Speaker 4: But yeah, I was feeling a little bit like I 163 00:08:16,810 --> 00:08:20,010 Speaker 4: was on a never ending treadmill full of adrenaline, moving 164 00:08:20,050 --> 00:08:22,930 Speaker 4: through each reject, aspiring to the next one. 165 00:08:23,130 --> 00:08:25,610 Speaker 1: It was very much about the doing. 166 00:08:32,810 --> 00:08:35,170 Speaker 3: Or your first baby, Evie. She came into the world 167 00:08:35,210 --> 00:08:38,090 Speaker 3: after significant admin almost like a job. There was a 168 00:08:38,130 --> 00:08:41,010 Speaker 3: lot going on. You were in another state, your pregnancy 169 00:08:41,050 --> 00:08:44,650 Speaker 3: remained a secret because of work and also an unexpected move. 170 00:08:44,730 --> 00:08:47,450 Speaker 3: Can you take me through the steps as to how 171 00:08:47,490 --> 00:08:49,770 Speaker 3: you found yourself back in your home state of Wa 172 00:08:50,010 --> 00:08:51,290 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty. 173 00:08:51,250 --> 00:08:53,610 Speaker 4: Talking about that that hectic period of being stuck in 174 00:08:53,610 --> 00:08:57,370 Speaker 4: the vortex a bit the work vortex. I actually had 175 00:08:57,370 --> 00:09:00,610 Speaker 4: been working on editing a show that I had created, 176 00:09:00,810 --> 00:09:03,410 Speaker 4: and it was sort of ongoing as COVID sort of 177 00:09:03,450 --> 00:09:06,970 Speaker 4: tracked through. But I remember I'd been locked inside a room, 178 00:09:07,170 --> 00:09:09,250 Speaker 4: you know, a dark room, to the point where I 179 00:09:09,410 --> 00:09:12,130 Speaker 4: had become pregnant. During that process, we were in Sydney 180 00:09:12,210 --> 00:09:14,890 Speaker 4: and I actually had like a vitamin D deficiency. I 181 00:09:14,930 --> 00:09:17,250 Speaker 4: remember when I had to go and do the blood 182 00:09:17,330 --> 00:09:19,490 Speaker 4: test and I was hot. 183 00:09:19,530 --> 00:09:21,930 Speaker 3: This woman has not seen daylight in months. 184 00:09:22,170 --> 00:09:25,330 Speaker 4: I literally was like, Oh my goodness, this is a 185 00:09:25,450 --> 00:09:29,610 Speaker 4: very clear physical sign of not having seen daylight. So 186 00:09:29,730 --> 00:09:32,130 Speaker 4: I tried to like pivot obviously at that point, be like, 187 00:09:32,130 --> 00:09:33,850 Speaker 4: you need to actually get out in the world again. 188 00:09:34,450 --> 00:09:38,250 Speaker 4: And then the world just kind of opened up that door. Anyway, 189 00:09:38,290 --> 00:09:40,890 Speaker 4: I ended up going back to wa to work on 190 00:09:40,930 --> 00:09:43,970 Speaker 4: the film Blue Back, which took me back into the 191 00:09:44,010 --> 00:09:47,410 Speaker 4: region that I'm from, like a really magical experience I 192 00:09:47,450 --> 00:09:49,090 Speaker 4: feel super fortunate to have had. 193 00:09:49,330 --> 00:09:51,210 Speaker 1: But like you say, I was pregnant at the time. 194 00:09:51,810 --> 00:09:54,650 Speaker 4: It was tricky because the shop kept getting pushed out 195 00:09:54,690 --> 00:09:57,730 Speaker 4: because of COVID and all of the logistics around that 196 00:09:58,010 --> 00:10:01,410 Speaker 4: side of things. When I was actually working on it, 197 00:10:01,690 --> 00:10:04,890 Speaker 4: I was pregnant. I concealed that for some time because 198 00:10:04,890 --> 00:10:08,010 Speaker 4: I was so worried about telling the team because I 199 00:10:08,050 --> 00:10:09,850 Speaker 4: didn't want it to affect I think. And that was 200 00:10:09,850 --> 00:10:12,770 Speaker 4: probably the first time that I realized, oh, my goodness, 201 00:10:12,930 --> 00:10:14,890 Speaker 4: the way that I work is actually going to change, 202 00:10:14,970 --> 00:10:18,850 Speaker 4: because I didn't want people to treat me any differently 203 00:10:18,930 --> 00:10:21,050 Speaker 4: because I was pregnant, like and I did want them 204 00:10:21,050 --> 00:10:23,050 Speaker 4: to worry that I wasn't going to be able to perform. 205 00:10:23,290 --> 00:10:26,170 Speaker 4: I found it really difficult to have that conversation explaining 206 00:10:26,170 --> 00:10:28,170 Speaker 4: that I was pregnant. As it turned out, obviously, the 207 00:10:28,210 --> 00:10:30,450 Speaker 4: team were like extremely supportive, and one of the other 208 00:10:30,530 --> 00:10:33,650 Speaker 4: producers ended up being pregnant on the shoot as well, 209 00:10:33,690 --> 00:10:36,050 Speaker 4: and she was pregnant with those seconds, so she was 210 00:10:36,090 --> 00:10:39,330 Speaker 4: a really incredible support for me during that shoot, and 211 00:10:39,370 --> 00:10:41,090 Speaker 4: a lot of the other people working on the shoot 212 00:10:41,130 --> 00:10:42,730 Speaker 4: we're heads of department as well and said they were 213 00:10:42,730 --> 00:10:46,330 Speaker 4: also supportive. But what ended up happening was my partner, Jim, 214 00:10:46,410 --> 00:10:49,650 Speaker 4: was still living in Sydney, and then with the border closures, 215 00:10:49,970 --> 00:10:53,290 Speaker 4: they called a hard border closure at Christmas, and we'd 216 00:10:53,330 --> 00:10:55,130 Speaker 4: been doing pre production back there and the shoot was 217 00:10:55,170 --> 00:10:58,010 Speaker 4: principal photography was taking place in twenty twenty one. Our 218 00:10:58,090 --> 00:11:01,290 Speaker 4: daughterer was due a week after the shoot because of 219 00:11:01,330 --> 00:11:03,730 Speaker 4: the changes, so Jim had to make like a split 220 00:11:03,770 --> 00:11:06,690 Speaker 4: second decision to bail Sydney and come in to join me, 221 00:11:06,850 --> 00:11:09,850 Speaker 4: just so he wouldn't miss the birth of his first child. 222 00:11:10,130 --> 00:11:13,850 Speaker 4: I'd already done lockdown for two weeks because of that decision. 223 00:11:13,890 --> 00:11:16,330 Speaker 4: I had to drive up the Alvenue Highway from Vera 224 00:11:16,370 --> 00:11:18,570 Speaker 4: Bay to pick him up. When he landed, we just 225 00:11:18,610 --> 00:11:20,730 Speaker 4: missed the window where you know you only had to 226 00:11:20,730 --> 00:11:22,810 Speaker 4: do forty eight hours isolation or something, which meant that 227 00:11:22,850 --> 00:11:25,490 Speaker 4: we would be locked up over Christmas and New Year. 228 00:11:26,210 --> 00:11:29,650 Speaker 4: And it was also soaring temperatures without air conditioning, which 229 00:11:29,730 --> 00:11:32,410 Speaker 4: was not very pleasant. As far along in the pregnancy 230 00:11:32,410 --> 00:11:34,370 Speaker 4: as I was, it meant that when we got out 231 00:11:34,370 --> 00:11:36,730 Speaker 4: on the other side, we really were confused. We had 232 00:11:36,770 --> 00:11:38,370 Speaker 4: no idea what was going on. We just had to 233 00:11:38,370 --> 00:11:40,370 Speaker 4: put one foot in front of the other. I'd had 234 00:11:40,450 --> 00:11:44,570 Speaker 4: to basically move my pregnancy arrangements, you know, the support 235 00:11:44,570 --> 00:11:46,850 Speaker 4: that you get from doctors and stuff. Three times, gone 236 00:11:46,850 --> 00:11:48,930 Speaker 4: from Sydney to Perth and then down to the Great 237 00:11:48,970 --> 00:11:52,050 Speaker 4: Southern So it was super discombobulating, and we just had 238 00:11:52,090 --> 00:11:55,650 Speaker 4: to like support each other and trust that like the 239 00:11:55,770 --> 00:11:58,930 Speaker 4: right thing would eventually show up. And we really just 240 00:11:59,010 --> 00:12:01,250 Speaker 4: figured everything out on the run because the borders kept 241 00:12:01,330 --> 00:12:04,410 Speaker 4: opening and shutting that year, so we just had to 242 00:12:04,730 --> 00:12:05,970 Speaker 4: make decisions as they came. 243 00:12:06,530 --> 00:12:09,810 Speaker 3: You talk about the shock to your identity after you 244 00:12:09,810 --> 00:12:13,370 Speaker 3: had it Evy in April twenty twenty one, which I 245 00:12:13,370 --> 00:12:15,930 Speaker 3: think is so relatable for anyone who's had a child 246 00:12:16,010 --> 00:12:19,730 Speaker 3: or gone through a massive life transition. Could you tell 247 00:12:19,770 --> 00:12:22,610 Speaker 3: me about what that was for you, Yeah. 248 00:12:22,570 --> 00:12:24,810 Speaker 4: I think maybe because I was so immersed in this 249 00:12:25,010 --> 00:12:30,050 Speaker 4: like work for Tex beforehand. It's almost like I didn't 250 00:12:30,290 --> 00:12:33,770 Speaker 4: think ahead to consider that I would have this massive 251 00:12:34,050 --> 00:12:36,650 Speaker 4: change to my identity, like I'd thought about everything else, 252 00:12:36,690 --> 00:12:40,450 Speaker 4: you know, like the body changes, hormone changes, you know, 253 00:12:40,490 --> 00:12:42,610 Speaker 4: like actual day to day changes. I'm going to have 254 00:12:42,650 --> 00:12:46,570 Speaker 4: to start doing these things like changing nappies and feeding 255 00:12:46,610 --> 00:12:48,410 Speaker 4: and things. I had actually thought about those, but I 256 00:12:48,490 --> 00:12:51,690 Speaker 4: never consider the impact that it would have to my identity. 257 00:12:51,690 --> 00:12:55,210 Speaker 4: And I suppose that happens for different people at different times, 258 00:12:55,530 --> 00:12:58,850 Speaker 4: and depending what their context is, it's just so vastly 259 00:12:58,850 --> 00:13:02,250 Speaker 4: different for everyone. But for me, I think initially I 260 00:13:02,330 --> 00:13:04,570 Speaker 4: was sort of in denial. And I think with remote 261 00:13:04,610 --> 00:13:08,210 Speaker 4: working so much opportunity to keep working, like to retain 262 00:13:08,250 --> 00:13:11,010 Speaker 4: the status quo, because you can have meetings outside of 263 00:13:11,170 --> 00:13:13,970 Speaker 4: the traditional times, you can be working on platforms that 264 00:13:14,050 --> 00:13:17,370 Speaker 4: support collaborative work from AFAR, it gave me an opportunity 265 00:13:17,450 --> 00:13:20,690 Speaker 4: to kind of pretend like there wasn't a change. It 266 00:13:20,730 --> 00:13:23,770 Speaker 4: was this really weird intersection of like a massive change 267 00:13:23,810 --> 00:13:27,450 Speaker 4: that happened to where even like you know, my day to 268 00:13:27,530 --> 00:13:31,130 Speaker 4: day was just now crammed full of baby related things. 269 00:13:31,290 --> 00:13:33,370 Speaker 4: And then I was still trying to show up and 270 00:13:33,490 --> 00:13:38,610 Speaker 4: almost pretend like that didn't exist, to meet my obligations 271 00:13:38,650 --> 00:13:41,970 Speaker 4: and not let people down and striving, and so it 272 00:13:42,090 --> 00:13:45,050 Speaker 4: was really it actually took quite some time until the 273 00:13:45,090 --> 00:13:48,290 Speaker 4: penny dropped, and I have to admit, but it wasn't 274 00:13:48,290 --> 00:13:52,050 Speaker 4: really even a realization that I came to by myself, 275 00:13:52,130 --> 00:13:53,810 Speaker 4: Like it was brewing in the back of my mind 276 00:13:53,850 --> 00:13:56,290 Speaker 4: that this is not sustainable to try and live that 277 00:13:56,370 --> 00:13:56,770 Speaker 4: way that. 278 00:13:56,730 --> 00:13:58,730 Speaker 1: I'd worked in this new way. 279 00:13:59,490 --> 00:14:02,450 Speaker 4: I just couldn't face myself addressing it or what the 280 00:14:02,570 --> 00:14:05,610 Speaker 4: new possibility of that looked like. And maybe also because 281 00:14:05,610 --> 00:14:07,730 Speaker 4: I just didn't have time. I was sleep deprived, and 282 00:14:07,770 --> 00:14:10,890 Speaker 4: I was like, I was so on that line. 283 00:14:10,450 --> 00:14:12,570 Speaker 3: Go go, go, go go, just on adrenaline, I. 284 00:14:12,490 --> 00:14:15,610 Speaker 4: Think as well, just coming through that COVID time, like 285 00:14:15,650 --> 00:14:17,730 Speaker 4: there was just a sense of like, who knows what's 286 00:14:17,770 --> 00:14:20,330 Speaker 4: going on anyway, just lean into it. But it did 287 00:14:20,370 --> 00:14:22,490 Speaker 4: mean that I gave me sort of an excuse from 288 00:14:22,530 --> 00:14:25,850 Speaker 4: addressing the impact that it was having on me physically 289 00:14:26,250 --> 00:14:28,810 Speaker 4: and mentally. You know, I'm reflecting on a lot of 290 00:14:28,850 --> 00:14:31,610 Speaker 4: this in hindsight now because my daughter, my youngest daughter, 291 00:14:31,690 --> 00:14:33,690 Speaker 4: is eighteen months my other daughters three and a half, 292 00:14:33,730 --> 00:14:35,290 Speaker 4: and I think I look back and I think one 293 00:14:35,330 --> 00:14:37,450 Speaker 4: of the things I did, which actually makes me a 294 00:14:37,450 --> 00:14:40,450 Speaker 4: little bit sad. You know, no one's given you a guidebook. 295 00:14:40,450 --> 00:14:44,090 Speaker 4: Everyone's pretty much figuring it out for themselves. I isolated 296 00:14:44,090 --> 00:14:46,290 Speaker 4: myself a little bit because I was just like, I 297 00:14:46,450 --> 00:14:49,330 Speaker 4: just need to keep on keeping on, you know. I 298 00:14:49,370 --> 00:14:53,290 Speaker 4: think in hindsight looking back at that, that was what 299 00:14:53,370 --> 00:14:56,130 Speaker 4: I just had to do, burrow into just this like action. 300 00:14:56,930 --> 00:14:59,610 Speaker 4: The penny started to drop about who am I, you know, 301 00:14:59,730 --> 00:15:01,850 Speaker 4: and I would I'd refer to social media and I 302 00:15:01,890 --> 00:15:05,090 Speaker 4: would see peers kind of posting about all this amazing 303 00:15:05,130 --> 00:15:07,610 Speaker 4: stuff that they were doing. And I really found like 304 00:15:08,050 --> 00:15:11,090 Speaker 4: I was getting this huge sense of fomo what I 305 00:15:11,130 --> 00:15:14,370 Speaker 4: had given up. I was also like really angry about 306 00:15:15,050 --> 00:15:17,490 Speaker 4: just at the peak of my career that I'd worked 307 00:15:17,650 --> 00:15:20,330 Speaker 4: so hard for to point back at the beginning of 308 00:15:20,330 --> 00:15:25,690 Speaker 4: the pigeons, like even get myself from the bush into Perth, 309 00:15:25,850 --> 00:15:30,370 Speaker 4: from Perth to Sydney. I really had to work really 310 00:15:30,450 --> 00:15:35,450 Speaker 4: hard to self generate opportunity and to kind of figure 311 00:15:35,490 --> 00:15:38,210 Speaker 4: out what the journey could look like for myself. And 312 00:15:38,250 --> 00:15:41,330 Speaker 4: that took a lot of energy and passion and bouncing 313 00:15:41,370 --> 00:15:44,210 Speaker 4: back out from all the rejection, trying to prove myself. 314 00:15:44,890 --> 00:15:45,930 Speaker 1: When I got. 315 00:15:45,730 --> 00:15:48,450 Speaker 4: To that point where I was like I am being 316 00:15:48,490 --> 00:15:51,130 Speaker 4: taken seriously now, you know, like I'm starting to take 317 00:15:51,170 --> 00:15:52,010 Speaker 4: myself seriously. 318 00:15:52,090 --> 00:15:53,890 Speaker 1: Other people are starting to take me seriously. 319 00:15:53,970 --> 00:15:57,490 Speaker 4: And then it was suddenly just I was going backward, 320 00:15:57,770 --> 00:16:02,130 Speaker 4: and that pretty devastating because at the same time I 321 00:16:02,250 --> 00:16:07,170 Speaker 4: was so thrilled and in complete love with this bundle 322 00:16:07,210 --> 00:16:11,130 Speaker 4: of joy that had also made me change the way 323 00:16:11,170 --> 00:16:13,970 Speaker 4: I viewed the world in terms of time and the 324 00:16:13,970 --> 00:16:17,170 Speaker 4: things I was valuing. So I couldn't quite reconcile all 325 00:16:17,250 --> 00:16:20,250 Speaker 4: of those things, you know, the fact that I was wistful, 326 00:16:21,010 --> 00:16:23,610 Speaker 4: but just as I was hitting that mark, I was 327 00:16:23,650 --> 00:16:25,730 Speaker 4: actually about to go backwards when all of these other 328 00:16:25,730 --> 00:16:28,610 Speaker 4: people could keep going forward. And then I was also 329 00:16:28,850 --> 00:16:33,890 Speaker 4: extremely grateful to be experiencing this complete change to my 330 00:16:34,130 --> 00:16:43,210 Speaker 4: outlook because of this beautiful little baby that I had. 331 00:16:44,370 --> 00:16:48,050 Speaker 3: It brings us to an interesting point in how the 332 00:16:48,090 --> 00:16:52,730 Speaker 3: world views working mothers these days, and this philosophy that 333 00:16:53,330 --> 00:16:56,050 Speaker 3: women can have it all, they can have the career, 334 00:16:56,290 --> 00:16:59,770 Speaker 3: they can have children. I'd love to know how you 335 00:16:59,810 --> 00:17:03,450 Speaker 3: feel about that statement or that mentality from people, especially 336 00:17:03,530 --> 00:17:06,090 Speaker 3: as you've written about your desire to stay in the game. 337 00:17:06,170 --> 00:17:07,690 Speaker 3: You're going to be the best mum, You're going to 338 00:17:07,690 --> 00:17:10,090 Speaker 3: be the best employer, You're going to have the best career. 339 00:17:10,570 --> 00:17:12,450 Speaker 3: So I guess the question is do you think women 340 00:17:12,490 --> 00:17:14,090 Speaker 3: can have it all? Or are you just set up 341 00:17:14,090 --> 00:17:14,490 Speaker 3: to fail? 342 00:17:15,570 --> 00:17:17,850 Speaker 4: I mean, look, it's different for everyone, but certainly for 343 00:17:17,970 --> 00:17:20,450 Speaker 4: me it felt like a little bit of a punky moment. 344 00:17:21,010 --> 00:17:24,330 Speaker 4: Whilst the opportunity is there which we're so lucky to 345 00:17:24,330 --> 00:17:27,930 Speaker 4: have access to, society hasn't evolved to the extent to 346 00:17:28,010 --> 00:17:31,530 Speaker 4: which that shame has proportionately reduced. 347 00:17:31,650 --> 00:17:33,090 Speaker 1: I just constantly. 348 00:17:32,610 --> 00:17:37,850 Speaker 4: Felt charged or made to feel I was neglecting my children, 349 00:17:38,010 --> 00:17:40,410 Speaker 4: or like that these choices were at the detriment of 350 00:17:40,410 --> 00:17:43,530 Speaker 4: my children. And so then you're tussing with that, like 351 00:17:43,770 --> 00:17:46,570 Speaker 4: beating yourself up in the mental part of your brain 352 00:17:46,610 --> 00:17:50,370 Speaker 4: that's also then housing all these other tasks that you 353 00:17:50,530 --> 00:17:53,130 Speaker 4: just take on as a mum. Like that mental load 354 00:17:53,450 --> 00:17:55,970 Speaker 4: is genuine, you know, and you do take it through 355 00:17:56,010 --> 00:18:00,970 Speaker 4: and it is connected to the woman because we haven't considered, okay, 356 00:18:01,010 --> 00:18:03,250 Speaker 4: if they're going to have this part of the pie, 357 00:18:03,410 --> 00:18:06,530 Speaker 4: where does this part of the pie Go in my family, James, 358 00:18:06,530 --> 00:18:11,010 Speaker 4: my husband, is an incredible support in enabling the load 359 00:18:11,050 --> 00:18:13,970 Speaker 4: to be shared for kids, and we can make things 360 00:18:14,010 --> 00:18:16,970 Speaker 4: work by communicating sitting down, how we can move things 361 00:18:16,970 --> 00:18:18,970 Speaker 4: around in terms of the diary and the schedule and 362 00:18:19,330 --> 00:18:24,290 Speaker 4: those kind of practicalities. But what hasn't evolved is general 363 00:18:24,290 --> 00:18:28,410 Speaker 4: infrastructure in society to actually support women to the extent that, 364 00:18:28,610 --> 00:18:31,650 Speaker 4: like all of that fringe stuff that I'm talking about, 365 00:18:31,810 --> 00:18:34,890 Speaker 4: it still exists there. So it's almost like what you're 366 00:18:34,930 --> 00:18:38,250 Speaker 4: actually doing is duplicating. Like I sort of felt like 367 00:18:38,970 --> 00:18:42,130 Speaker 4: I had cloned a life that I was now trying 368 00:18:42,170 --> 00:18:44,490 Speaker 4: to like bring both of those. 369 00:18:44,290 --> 00:18:47,650 Speaker 1: In still only with the constraints of the same amount 370 00:18:47,690 --> 00:18:49,490 Speaker 1: of time. So it actually just. 371 00:18:49,490 --> 00:18:53,330 Speaker 4: Felt impossible, you know, and then you start to not 372 00:18:53,450 --> 00:18:56,130 Speaker 4: do things well and you feel like you're doing everything 373 00:18:56,210 --> 00:18:59,170 Speaker 4: badly because you know, the truth is, you can't always 374 00:18:59,210 --> 00:19:00,850 Speaker 4: show up to the best of your ability. 375 00:19:01,010 --> 00:19:03,170 Speaker 1: I mean, I remember doing an interview. 376 00:19:02,850 --> 00:19:06,050 Speaker 4: Live on air on the ABC because I had to, 377 00:19:06,170 --> 00:19:10,130 Speaker 4: like Homespun was coming out three weeks after I gave birth. 378 00:19:10,250 --> 00:19:12,450 Speaker 4: I had to do some promotional stuff around that, and 379 00:19:12,970 --> 00:19:14,770 Speaker 4: I managed to do it. Like you couldn't have told 380 00:19:14,810 --> 00:19:16,530 Speaker 4: that I had a baby that I just fed, and 381 00:19:16,530 --> 00:19:17,850 Speaker 4: that I was trying to find a place in the 382 00:19:17,890 --> 00:19:20,050 Speaker 4: house where I could do this interview that was live 383 00:19:20,130 --> 00:19:24,290 Speaker 4: on whilst I had this baby in another room. But 384 00:19:24,450 --> 00:19:27,610 Speaker 4: then that kind of anxiety or the I guess that 385 00:19:27,810 --> 00:19:30,450 Speaker 4: energy that you have to use to kind of pull 386 00:19:30,490 --> 00:19:32,730 Speaker 4: yourself into that level of focus to be present for 387 00:19:32,770 --> 00:19:35,850 Speaker 4: those moments, it does impact somewhere, and if it's not mental, 388 00:19:36,570 --> 00:19:37,770 Speaker 4: it tends to be physical. 389 00:19:38,330 --> 00:19:39,650 Speaker 1: So I guess, in. 390 00:19:39,570 --> 00:19:42,770 Speaker 4: Answer to your question, like, it is incredible that we've 391 00:19:42,770 --> 00:19:44,850 Speaker 4: got access to this opportunity and that we can dare 392 00:19:44,890 --> 00:19:48,090 Speaker 4: to dream the dreams that we've got without having that inhibited. 393 00:19:48,130 --> 00:19:49,730 Speaker 1: But I think the tricky part is. 394 00:19:50,490 --> 00:19:55,530 Speaker 4: How do we encompass those into these other elements as well, 395 00:19:55,570 --> 00:19:57,410 Speaker 4: Like what part has to give or how do you 396 00:19:57,450 --> 00:20:00,970 Speaker 4: manage that? And I think for me, I couldn't figure 397 00:20:00,970 --> 00:20:03,770 Speaker 4: it out for myself. It took something physical for me 398 00:20:03,850 --> 00:20:05,490 Speaker 4: to actually have that moment. 399 00:20:06,010 --> 00:20:08,770 Speaker 3: Yes, which is my next question. You call your turning 400 00:20:08,810 --> 00:20:13,890 Speaker 3: point shingles. Obviously there are physical symptoms and there's treatment 401 00:20:13,970 --> 00:20:16,090 Speaker 3: in it. It's an awful time, But I want to 402 00:20:16,090 --> 00:20:19,570 Speaker 3: know how shingles became so pivotal to you seeing the 403 00:20:19,610 --> 00:20:20,290 Speaker 3: wood fil trey. 404 00:20:20,970 --> 00:20:24,530 Speaker 1: I think it's that thing where I could tell. 405 00:20:24,970 --> 00:20:27,650 Speaker 4: I was like, oh, something bad's going to happen here, 406 00:20:27,770 --> 00:20:30,850 Speaker 4: Like I am literally burning the candle, even to the 407 00:20:30,850 --> 00:20:34,290 Speaker 4: point where like to try and knit these things together 408 00:20:34,850 --> 00:20:36,690 Speaker 4: and not affect either part. 409 00:20:36,970 --> 00:20:39,330 Speaker 1: It is yourself that starts to implode. 410 00:20:39,410 --> 00:20:40,930 Speaker 4: You're like, I want to show up the best as 411 00:20:40,970 --> 00:20:43,050 Speaker 4: possible for my family and my kids. I want to 412 00:20:43,090 --> 00:20:46,170 Speaker 4: show up the best is possible for my colleagues. Something 413 00:20:46,490 --> 00:20:50,370 Speaker 4: is just by default physics going to have to take 414 00:20:50,410 --> 00:20:55,010 Speaker 4: the brunt of that energy output, and it's usually you. 415 00:20:55,210 --> 00:20:58,010 Speaker 1: Like I had like really clear signs. 416 00:20:58,170 --> 00:21:01,410 Speaker 4: My second toe went numb, and I was like, neurologically, 417 00:21:01,530 --> 00:21:05,170 Speaker 4: this feels not good. And I would go the doctors 418 00:21:05,570 --> 00:21:09,690 Speaker 4: and get blood tests, and eventually it did happen. And 419 00:21:09,970 --> 00:21:12,490 Speaker 4: I had been carrying the kids a lot, and one 420 00:21:12,530 --> 00:21:14,290 Speaker 4: of my kids had sort of gotten a bit too 421 00:21:14,450 --> 00:21:16,570 Speaker 4: big to carry, but I was still carrying her around 422 00:21:16,610 --> 00:21:19,370 Speaker 4: and I was feeding my second kid and just doing 423 00:21:19,410 --> 00:21:22,850 Speaker 4: all the things. I had really bad back pain, and 424 00:21:22,890 --> 00:21:24,290 Speaker 4: I thought it must have just been because I was 425 00:21:24,290 --> 00:21:25,610 Speaker 4: carrying the kids so much, and. 426 00:21:25,570 --> 00:21:27,210 Speaker 1: So I missed the window. 427 00:21:27,570 --> 00:21:29,570 Speaker 4: When you get shingles, there's like a window that if 428 00:21:29,610 --> 00:21:32,170 Speaker 4: you get it in time, you can get this anti 429 00:21:32,250 --> 00:21:34,970 Speaker 4: viral that will stop the pain that the nerve pain. 430 00:21:35,050 --> 00:21:36,210 Speaker 1: And because of. 431 00:21:36,090 --> 00:21:40,490 Speaker 4: My insistence to just keep going, I missed the window 432 00:21:40,730 --> 00:21:43,930 Speaker 4: and so I endured this like horrific pain for four 433 00:21:44,210 --> 00:21:47,490 Speaker 4: weeks that was just so aggressive and I was forced 434 00:21:47,610 --> 00:21:50,090 Speaker 4: to just sit on the counts and it felt like 435 00:21:50,290 --> 00:21:52,850 Speaker 4: really having to sit down and like reflect on my 436 00:21:52,930 --> 00:21:55,730 Speaker 4: actions and go there was no way out of it. 437 00:21:55,770 --> 00:21:57,690 Speaker 1: I was just like, yeah, something's got to give. 438 00:21:58,170 --> 00:22:00,650 Speaker 3: This is what I imagine is a hard question because 439 00:22:00,730 --> 00:22:04,090 Speaker 3: I'm going to talk about the clarity that only reflection brings. 440 00:22:04,370 --> 00:22:07,890 Speaker 3: But knowing what you know now, would you change anything? 441 00:22:08,090 --> 00:22:11,410 Speaker 3: Or do you feel like all of the mistakes, the shingles, 442 00:22:11,450 --> 00:22:16,370 Speaker 3: the like vibrating through the walls has made you stronger? 443 00:22:16,530 --> 00:22:18,850 Speaker 3: Like I guess I mean that in less of our 444 00:22:19,210 --> 00:22:22,010 Speaker 3: whimsical we must offer through the pain way. But is 445 00:22:22,050 --> 00:22:23,210 Speaker 3: there things you would change? 446 00:22:23,370 --> 00:22:26,050 Speaker 1: Oh? Absolutely? Like I think it's just that you know 447 00:22:26,130 --> 00:22:27,490 Speaker 1: that idea of punishment. 448 00:22:27,610 --> 00:22:30,210 Speaker 4: I think I'd really gotten into this place where I 449 00:22:30,290 --> 00:22:32,490 Speaker 4: sort of equated adrenaline and. 450 00:22:32,770 --> 00:22:35,290 Speaker 1: Go, go, go, go go with the results. 451 00:22:35,450 --> 00:22:37,930 Speaker 4: And then that was a really goo moment where I went, well, 452 00:22:37,970 --> 00:22:39,570 Speaker 4: what do the results even mean? 453 00:22:39,650 --> 00:22:41,090 Speaker 1: Like this is the way you're going to live? What 454 00:22:41,370 --> 00:22:44,930 Speaker 1: are you eventually hoping to get to? Like whipping yourself 455 00:22:45,010 --> 00:22:45,450 Speaker 1: on the back. 456 00:22:45,610 --> 00:22:47,890 Speaker 4: It's not a fun What do you get when you 457 00:22:47,890 --> 00:22:49,810 Speaker 4: get there? An honest certificate to say, well done, you 458 00:22:49,850 --> 00:22:52,650 Speaker 4: made it, Now go back, you know? So I was like, 459 00:22:52,730 --> 00:22:54,690 Speaker 4: what am I striving for? And that's I guess what 460 00:22:54,810 --> 00:22:57,610 Speaker 4: took me back to going and especially like having the kids, 461 00:22:57,770 --> 00:23:01,770 Speaker 4: it was really interesting because watching them enjoy and play 462 00:23:02,010 --> 00:23:04,890 Speaker 4: was a really key reminder as well that like that's 463 00:23:04,930 --> 00:23:07,690 Speaker 4: what life is. We'll talk about being present and all 464 00:23:07,730 --> 00:23:09,730 Speaker 4: of that, and I mean different things to different people, 465 00:23:09,810 --> 00:23:12,130 Speaker 4: but like, because I love play so much, I find 466 00:23:12,170 --> 00:23:14,410 Speaker 4: it quite easy to be present with my kids because 467 00:23:14,450 --> 00:23:17,290 Speaker 4: I love mucking around, joking and singing and all that 468 00:23:17,330 --> 00:23:20,770 Speaker 4: stuff and painting. So I had this really nice thing 469 00:23:20,850 --> 00:23:23,690 Speaker 4: to draw onto to go I love feeling like this, 470 00:23:23,850 --> 00:23:27,490 Speaker 4: like in that horrific space of pain and self sabotage 471 00:23:27,490 --> 00:23:29,330 Speaker 4: and all of that stuff, I actually could refer to 472 00:23:29,370 --> 00:23:31,370 Speaker 4: this and go, this is actually what I want, Like 473 00:23:31,450 --> 00:23:34,490 Speaker 4: what does this look like? I don't need to do 474 00:23:34,610 --> 00:23:37,170 Speaker 4: all the things and be all the things and have 475 00:23:37,290 --> 00:23:39,250 Speaker 4: people think I'm doing this, and that like, if this 476 00:23:39,410 --> 00:23:43,130 Speaker 4: is my life, I actually want to feel this for 477 00:23:43,850 --> 00:23:47,010 Speaker 4: more time than not, for as much time that I can, 478 00:23:47,770 --> 00:23:51,610 Speaker 4: So how then can I make choices about what I'm 479 00:23:51,650 --> 00:23:55,330 Speaker 4: doing to return this feeling? And that really did help 480 00:23:55,370 --> 00:23:58,450 Speaker 4: me start to get clarity on the things that I. 481 00:23:58,410 --> 00:23:59,050 Speaker 1: Wanted to do. 482 00:23:59,410 --> 00:24:01,970 Speaker 4: You're right in that I can't imagine given that I 483 00:24:02,130 --> 00:24:06,010 Speaker 4: showed no initiative in making this realization independently. 484 00:24:06,170 --> 00:24:07,690 Speaker 1: It took all of these things. 485 00:24:08,050 --> 00:24:10,770 Speaker 4: I can't imagine that I could have arrived that by myself, 486 00:24:10,850 --> 00:24:14,330 Speaker 4: because I didn't. That's the truth. I can't think that 487 00:24:14,330 --> 00:24:15,850 Speaker 4: I would have done it any other way. But I 488 00:24:15,930 --> 00:24:19,290 Speaker 4: do look back and I just wish for myself that 489 00:24:19,410 --> 00:24:21,850 Speaker 4: I hadn't punished myself so much. 490 00:24:21,890 --> 00:24:26,250 Speaker 3: And get ill while still in pursuit of that feeling, 491 00:24:26,490 --> 00:24:28,770 Speaker 3: and that feeling in terms of career, that feeling in 492 00:24:28,850 --> 00:24:32,530 Speaker 3: terms of parenting. Who are the people who contributed to 493 00:24:32,610 --> 00:24:35,290 Speaker 3: the feeling or brought you something that made you feel 494 00:24:35,330 --> 00:24:37,850 Speaker 3: a feeling, Who was part of your village, the people 495 00:24:37,850 --> 00:24:39,970 Speaker 3: who turned up either impersonal from a farm. 496 00:24:40,090 --> 00:24:44,410 Speaker 1: Gosh, it's a really beautiful question because I've had some 497 00:24:44,530 --> 00:24:47,330 Speaker 1: incredible support along the way and I think that's why 498 00:24:47,370 --> 00:24:49,890 Speaker 1: I'm so lucky, because I was led to believe that 499 00:24:49,970 --> 00:24:54,290 Speaker 1: this was totally achievable career to have, and that started 500 00:24:54,290 --> 00:24:57,890 Speaker 1: from an early age with my grandmother, who sadly passed 501 00:24:57,890 --> 00:24:59,210 Speaker 1: away yesterday. 502 00:24:59,650 --> 00:25:02,930 Speaker 4: She was a writer. She lost her daughter when her 503 00:25:03,010 --> 00:25:08,330 Speaker 4: daughter was eighteen. As a mother myself, now, an understanding 504 00:25:08,370 --> 00:25:10,930 Speaker 4: of what that experience would have been like for her 505 00:25:11,370 --> 00:25:14,490 Speaker 4: is very clear. Obviously, I'll never relate to it unless 506 00:25:14,530 --> 00:25:17,610 Speaker 4: that experience happens to me. But I think the connection 507 00:25:17,690 --> 00:25:20,130 Speaker 4: that we had was super strong because in some ways 508 00:25:20,330 --> 00:25:23,570 Speaker 4: she got to experience things that she wouldn't have been 509 00:25:23,610 --> 00:25:26,770 Speaker 4: able to otherwise. So she was a really big champion 510 00:25:26,970 --> 00:25:29,970 Speaker 4: of creativity for me from a really young age, like 511 00:25:30,130 --> 00:25:34,650 Speaker 4: everything from painting to you know, like yesterday I was 512 00:25:34,690 --> 00:25:36,850 Speaker 4: listening to Singing the Rain because she would take me 513 00:25:36,930 --> 00:25:40,770 Speaker 4: to musicals and she would give me books, and she 514 00:25:40,810 --> 00:25:45,770 Speaker 4: would give me creative writing tasks, and she would encourage performing, 515 00:25:46,090 --> 00:25:49,330 Speaker 4: and she just opened my eyes up to things that, 516 00:25:49,410 --> 00:25:51,290 Speaker 4: like in the tiny town that I grew up in, 517 00:25:51,330 --> 00:25:54,210 Speaker 4: I wouldn't have access to. And that was complimented by 518 00:25:54,890 --> 00:25:57,930 Speaker 4: my mother, who also is really creative, even though she's 519 00:25:57,970 --> 00:26:01,410 Speaker 4: a physio They never diminished the value of creativity. 520 00:26:01,450 --> 00:26:04,010 Speaker 1: They bolstered it up. They bolsted me up. 521 00:26:04,130 --> 00:26:07,330 Speaker 4: And I reflect on that because in that time and 522 00:26:07,370 --> 00:26:10,890 Speaker 4: where we lived, like that wasn't traditional to the experience, 523 00:26:11,090 --> 00:26:13,250 Speaker 4: so I was really really lucky in it. I think 524 00:26:13,690 --> 00:26:17,130 Speaker 4: it'll definitely make me continue to passionately, you know, make 525 00:26:17,170 --> 00:26:20,530 Speaker 4: sure that people access their own creativity and know the 526 00:26:20,690 --> 00:26:23,570 Speaker 4: it's like a really viable thing to want to pursue. 527 00:26:24,170 --> 00:26:26,290 Speaker 1: And that really meant a lot to me. 528 00:26:26,530 --> 00:26:31,410 Speaker 4: And definitely, creativity and being in this industry is just 529 00:26:31,530 --> 00:26:35,730 Speaker 4: so fraught with rejection and there's just so many things 530 00:26:35,730 --> 00:26:38,570 Speaker 4: where you just have to constantly work on yourself to 531 00:26:38,650 --> 00:26:42,330 Speaker 4: be able to survive. It's in a place like Australia, 532 00:26:43,090 --> 00:26:47,530 Speaker 4: having those people really continuously propped me up and like 533 00:26:48,090 --> 00:26:50,690 Speaker 4: that was huge, and I hope that I can provide 534 00:26:50,730 --> 00:26:52,850 Speaker 4: that same experience for my girls too. 535 00:26:52,970 --> 00:26:54,810 Speaker 3: Before I get to my last question, I just want 536 00:26:54,850 --> 00:26:58,170 Speaker 3: to thank you for turning up for this interview and 537 00:26:58,290 --> 00:27:02,850 Speaker 3: for sharing so much fullness of love while you're in 538 00:27:02,970 --> 00:27:06,250 Speaker 3: this immediate rawness of grief. I think it's a really 539 00:27:06,290 --> 00:27:10,490 Speaker 3: beautiful way to talk about the legacy that your grandmother has. 540 00:27:10,530 --> 00:27:13,770 Speaker 3: In this conversation, so thank you for that, Beg. I 541 00:27:13,850 --> 00:27:15,970 Speaker 3: want to ask what we ask everyone at the end 542 00:27:15,970 --> 00:27:18,370 Speaker 3: of little love stories is what does love mean to 543 00:27:18,450 --> 00:27:21,930 Speaker 3: you now? Today? It can shang tomorrow, it can change 544 00:27:21,970 --> 00:27:24,650 Speaker 3: next week, but right now as we talk, what does 545 00:27:24,690 --> 00:27:25,370 Speaker 3: love mean to you? 546 00:27:26,010 --> 00:27:26,290 Speaker 1: Again? 547 00:27:26,370 --> 00:27:28,890 Speaker 4: I guess I art back to feeling like in me, 548 00:27:29,450 --> 00:27:33,010 Speaker 4: especially at the moment, like I feel love so strongly, 549 00:27:33,490 --> 00:27:35,530 Speaker 4: Like it does feel like it's in my heart. It's 550 00:27:35,730 --> 00:27:41,970 Speaker 4: that strength of this powerful emotion of just going how 551 00:27:42,050 --> 00:27:46,930 Speaker 4: lucky am I to have experienced this connection with such 552 00:27:46,930 --> 00:27:49,970 Speaker 4: a person, you know, being my grand obviously moving through 553 00:27:50,410 --> 00:27:53,410 Speaker 4: this experience at the moment like it's just a deep, 554 00:27:53,730 --> 00:27:57,730 Speaker 4: deep sense of gratitude, and I guess like it gives 555 00:27:57,770 --> 00:28:00,770 Speaker 4: you value for life. It is easy to get stuck 556 00:28:00,810 --> 00:28:03,730 Speaker 4: in that treadmill and that vortex and that just you know, 557 00:28:03,890 --> 00:28:06,810 Speaker 4: every day it's almost like a calendar where like the 558 00:28:06,850 --> 00:28:09,210 Speaker 4: calendar page just flick through and you know, everyone goes, 559 00:28:09,210 --> 00:28:12,010 Speaker 4: oh god, it's October, Like where do the you go? 560 00:28:12,570 --> 00:28:14,930 Speaker 4: You can get so caught up in that just time 561 00:28:15,010 --> 00:28:17,570 Speaker 4: moving forward. But when you have a moment like I've 562 00:28:17,610 --> 00:28:21,970 Speaker 4: experienced with grand passing, it really does remind you we're 563 00:28:22,050 --> 00:28:25,130 Speaker 4: so lucky. To have this life and to have these 564 00:28:25,130 --> 00:28:28,850 Speaker 4: connections with people, and that is love, Like I guess 565 00:28:28,930 --> 00:28:32,330 Speaker 4: it's vulnerability, Like we don't feel grief unless we feel love, 566 00:28:32,930 --> 00:28:37,330 Speaker 4: and so making ourselves vulnerable and open to connecting with 567 00:28:37,410 --> 00:28:42,650 Speaker 4: people on that deepest level reciprocally providing them with support 568 00:28:42,890 --> 00:28:47,730 Speaker 4: and respect and adoration and joy. That's what love is 569 00:28:47,770 --> 00:28:52,090 Speaker 4: to me, A heart connection that makes life worth living. 570 00:28:52,370 --> 00:28:54,570 Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Beck for sharing your Little Love Story. 571 00:28:55,210 --> 00:28:57,210 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for listening to Little Love Stories. 572 00:28:57,250 --> 00:28:59,450 Speaker 3: If you want to read Beck's full story, there is 573 00:28:59,490 --> 00:29:01,730 Speaker 3: a link in the show notes. Please get in touch 574 00:29:01,770 --> 00:29:03,650 Speaker 3: if you'd like to share your story with us. All 575 00:29:03,650 --> 00:29:05,330 Speaker 3: the details on how to do that are also in 576 00:29:05,370 --> 00:29:08,010 Speaker 3: our show notes. Little Love Stories is produced by me 577 00:29:08,090 --> 00:29:12,290 Speaker 3: Grace Roofrey, with audio production by Leah Porge's. If you're 578 00:29:12,290 --> 00:29:14,330 Speaker 3: looking for something else to listen to, Muma Miho is 579 00:29:14,370 --> 00:29:18,370 Speaker 3: presenting one hundred hours of summer listens from meaningful conversations, 580 00:29:18,610 --> 00:29:22,450 Speaker 3: incredible stories, fashion, beauty, and a bit of silliness. There's 581 00:29:22,450 --> 00:29:24,290 Speaker 3: a link to more things to listen to in the 582 00:29:24,290 --> 00:29:24,930 Speaker 3: show notes.