WEBVTT - Taylor Swift & Why Her Boyfriend's Podcast

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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<v Speaker 2>that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to

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<v Speaker 2>MoMA Mia out Loud. It's what women are actually talking

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<v Speaker 2>about on Wednesday, the thirteenth of August. I'm Holly Wainwright,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Jesse Stevens.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm Amelia Lester.

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<v Speaker 2>And here's what's made our agenda for today. Pobs restaurants

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<v Speaker 2>and the tennis One female player's reaction to a noisy

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<v Speaker 2>child has reignited a debate about where kids are welcome,

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<v Speaker 2>and we do not agree.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a lot happening in the world this week, and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to give you the talking points you need

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<v Speaker 1>in under five minutes.

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<v Speaker 3>And why the MoMA Mea office went into a frenzy

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<v Speaker 3>over Taylor swift yesterday. We are gonna unpack the pr

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<v Speaker 3>of it all because some Swifties are saying it was

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<v Speaker 3>a bit clumsy.

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<v Speaker 1>So there is a theory.

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<v Speaker 3>Yep, there's a theory.

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<v Speaker 2>An orange. You're gonna explain to me orange good? Okay, good?

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<v Speaker 2>Please excuse me while I press refresh on my pre

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<v Speaker 2>order for Pammy's Pickles. Okay, yes, I'm talking about my

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<v Speaker 2>gardening buddy and my no makeup icon, Pamela Anderson and

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<v Speaker 2>her new pickle line. This week, she announced that she

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<v Speaker 2>has made some pickles. If anyone doesn't know what pickles are, cucumbers, vinegar,

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<v Speaker 2>that's pretty much it right. She's made a new line

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<v Speaker 2>of pickles. All the money's going to charity. They are

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<v Speaker 2>fifty eight dollars a jar Australian.

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<v Speaker 3>I like pickles. I love pickles, not fifty eight dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>But they've also got rose petals in them, which is

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<v Speaker 2>a little concerning, but a bit Megan. Pamela's pickling news

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<v Speaker 2>tickled me no end because I love me a celebrity

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<v Speaker 2>condiment and I like to see some new entries to

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<v Speaker 2>the marketplace. So Brooklyn Beckham's cloud twenty nine hot Sauce.

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<v Speaker 2>I love hot sauce like I've got twenty five different

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<v Speaker 2>hot sauces in my Fridgrookies. Yet no, I'm trying. I

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<v Speaker 2>would like it. It's fifty three dollars a bottle has a

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<v Speaker 2>hot sauce. It's called tingly ted Chili sauce. It's a

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<v Speaker 2>very reasonable twelve dollars.

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<v Speaker 3>Did you know that one of the FAQ's on the

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<v Speaker 3>website is ed Sharon Whitey have a hot sauce, and

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<v Speaker 3>he's like, I really like hot sauce. That's the whole

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<v Speaker 3>reason I should have a hot sauce. Yes, you could

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<v Speaker 3>have a hot sauce.

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<v Speaker 2>Holly's Hot sauce. Glenn Powell Smashed Kitchen has an eye

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<v Speaker 2>out for your wallet. He's got ketchup mustards, barbecue sauce,

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<v Speaker 2>and mayonnaise and they're all only about five dollars a piece.

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<v Speaker 2>Swoon Megan's jam of course, sorry preserve good luck getting

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<v Speaker 2>your hands on that. And John bon Jovi has a

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<v Speaker 2>pasta sauce And question why celebrity condiments? And also, as

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<v Speaker 2>much as I love condiments, do they taste better if

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<v Speaker 2>a hot person makes them?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they absolutely do. So there's a few reasons.

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<v Speaker 1>I think.

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<v Speaker 3>The first is I feel like you can own unlimited condiments,

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<v Speaker 3>and that we all feel like we might be one

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<v Speaker 3>condiment from yummy. Right, So it's like ben products, I'm

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<v Speaker 3>one product from.

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<v Speaker 2>Beautiful, I'm one lipstick away, yeah from exactly, yeah exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's that's the thing where one condiment from going

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<v Speaker 3>And it's kind of the lipstick effect in that you

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<v Speaker 3>may not be able to afford all of the fancy

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<v Speaker 3>foods at the moment, but you will get that condiment

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<v Speaker 3>that you know isn't one meal, but you use it

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<v Speaker 3>over many. And that's why they say condiments are recession proof.

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<v Speaker 3>So they's something that if you invest in as a

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<v Speaker 3>celebrity or you put your face to it, then it's

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<v Speaker 3>a good economic move. And apparently I didn't know this

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<v Speaker 3>condiment talk big deal. Oh, condiments are very big on TikTok,

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<v Speaker 3>so all the slubs are jumping on.

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<v Speaker 1>I've got a bit of a Megan angle on this,

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<v Speaker 1>which is that Pame is doing this for Fu Mngo Estate,

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<v Speaker 1>which is a Los Angeles based kind of farm goods

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<v Speaker 1>beauty products line. It's actually sold in Mecca here and

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<v Speaker 1>many people say that Megan's as ever is modeled on

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<v Speaker 1>Flamingo Estate. Now what is interesting is one I have

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<v Speaker 1>been to Flamingo Estate. I once did a story where

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<v Speaker 1>I went there, and it's the most beautiful farm in

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<v Speaker 1>southern California and it literally looks like the Garden of Eden.

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<v Speaker 1>And I just imagine Pame with her hair up in

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<v Speaker 1>the iconic claw clip bun. Yeah, because that's also hygienic

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<v Speaker 1>when you're making condiments to get the hair out of

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<v Speaker 1>the way, just sort of pickling her cauliflower and her

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<v Speaker 1>cucumbers in this beautiful garden.

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<v Speaker 2>This is my dream. You are describing my dree light.

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<v Speaker 2>She wears white while she's in the garden at all times. Also, Pami,

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<v Speaker 2>which is very very very like unpractical, impractice impractical.

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<v Speaker 1>And did you follow the fact that when she was

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<v Speaker 1>first asked about Megan and Megan's cooking products Empire, she

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<v Speaker 1>was very dismissive of it, But then when she was

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<v Speaker 1>asked about it recently, she said there's plenty of room

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<v Speaker 1>for celebrity cooking shows and that she didn't invent them.

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<v Speaker 1>So there's a way in which Pammy and Meg's are

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<v Speaker 1>kind of evolving on parallel tracks.

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<v Speaker 2>Heah, that's so interesting.

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<v Speaker 3>I also reckon that there's nothing controversial about a condiment

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<v Speaker 3>like it feels like a very safe, low barrier to

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<v Speaker 3>entry space to enter into. There's a few other things

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<v Speaker 3>that would probably be harder.

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<v Speaker 1>I have a question. Does Liam Neeson like Pam's pickles.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure he does, so.

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to show you something. Okay, what do we got?

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<v Speaker 2>We got ah brief curse.

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<v Speaker 4>Yep, Mick Greens, Yep.

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<v Speaker 3>This is my brand new album, The Life of a Showgirl.

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<v Speaker 2>I like grown men losing their shit.

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<v Speaker 3>No, that sounds like the office twenty four hours ago

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<v Speaker 3>is exactly the sound that was ringing through the Mummere office.

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<v Speaker 3>There's a tweet that we republished on our Instagram yesterday

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<v Speaker 3>morning that read it's a big day for annoying people

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<v Speaker 3>and then in brackets it said me And on Tuesday,

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<v Speaker 3>if you were in a workplace, you may have noticed

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<v Speaker 3>a considerable drop in productivity around twelve minutes past two

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<v Speaker 3>Sydney time. Perhaps there were people gathering at desks. It

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<v Speaker 3>sounded exactly like that. There were groans, there were screams,

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<v Speaker 3>there were sqheels, something something ts twelve New Heights, Showgirl,

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<v Speaker 3>Mint Green a podcast clip. Friends. I don't understand much,

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<v Speaker 3>but what I do know is that Taylor Allison Swift

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<v Speaker 3>Friend of the Pod, has a new album and it

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<v Speaker 3>is called.

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<v Speaker 2>Friend of the She listens finitely listen.

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<v Speaker 3>No, I have beef because she did not decide to

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<v Speaker 3>come on here to announce this album. It is called

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<v Speaker 3>the Life of a show Girl. We also know that

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<v Speaker 3>tomorrow we will be able to listen to the first

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<v Speaker 3>podcast interview Taylor is done in years and the interviewers

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<v Speaker 3>will be her boyfriend Travis Kelce and his brother Jason.

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<v Speaker 3>If you are not a swiftye if you don't know

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<v Speaker 3>that Taylor's favorite number is thirteen something minus one equals twelve,

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know. And you're not into decoding puzzles that

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<v Speaker 3>include something about a glitter emoji, then don't panic. We're

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<v Speaker 3>not here to delve into every single little detail. But

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<v Speaker 3>what we do want to do is look at this

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<v Speaker 3>PR strategy because some of it, by Taylor's standards, felt

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<v Speaker 3>a bit rushed, and the decision to sit down with

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<v Speaker 3>Travis rather than say Alex Cooper on call her daddy,

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<v Speaker 3>some people have feelings about it. Now I want to

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<v Speaker 3>take a few steps back, Amelia. This is one of

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<v Speaker 3>your areas of expertise. We know you went to Harvard.

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<v Speaker 3>This was one of the courses. Speak to me about

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<v Speaker 3>the leak theory.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's how things happened yesterday, how I experienced them Australian

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<v Speaker 1>Eastern Standard time. Yesterday morning, was walking around a supermarket

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<v Speaker 1>and my phone started blowing up with images on x

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<v Speaker 1>and on Reddit of what looked like photos from Taylor

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<v Speaker 1>Swift's new album. There was a photo of her in

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<v Speaker 1>a very dramatic black bob. There was also a photo

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<v Speaker 1>of her in sort of Vegas showgirl garb, and there

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<v Speaker 1>was also a list of tracks, and people were speculating

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<v Speaker 1>that this was the album that there's been chatter about

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<v Speaker 1>for a while, because when.

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<v Speaker 2>I put my hand up and asked a question, wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>the last album just like five minutes ago the tortured poets,

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<v Speaker 2>was that last year being.

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<v Speaker 1>The second longest hiatus that she's.

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<v Speaker 2>Sayless me and it's only been what ae longest a year?

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<v Speaker 2>And their collie she just so see, I didn't know

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<v Speaker 2>we were expecting a drop there was because I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>a sniff.

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<v Speaker 1>You weren't clowning. There were various clues that one was coming,

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<v Speaker 1>which I won't bore you with. But these images got leaked,

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<v Speaker 1>and then also some lyrics leaked on the lyrics website Genius,

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<v Speaker 1>and then we all somehow went to tailorswift dot com.

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<v Speaker 1>You know how these things happen on the Internet. Everyone

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<v Speaker 1>suddenly on tailorswift dot com. It turned into a bright orange,

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<v Speaker 1>glittery countdown to twelve twelve twelve Eastern times, so that's

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<v Speaker 1>the time on the East coast of the US, which

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<v Speaker 1>was two pm Australian Eastern. And then when the countdown ended,

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<v Speaker 1>we were greeted with a shop with the pre sales

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<v Speaker 1>for an album which, as you mentioned, Jesse is going

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<v Speaker 1>to be called The Life of a Showgirl. And then

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<v Speaker 1>as if that wasn't enough, then the New Heights clip dropped.

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<v Speaker 1>New Heights is the podcast at Travis and Jason Kelcey

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<v Speaker 1>host which they recently got one hundred million dollars for,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's when she announced that she's going to be

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<v Speaker 1>on the show tomorrow Thursday.

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<v Speaker 2>Have another question, Do I have to buy the album?

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<v Speaker 2>Don't I just get to listen to it for nothing?

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<v Speaker 2>What do mean in pre order? What do you mean shop?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>People? Actually what am I talking?

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<v Speaker 1>Apparently the Australian shop was literally impossible to get into

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<v Speaker 1>and people kept being redirected to the American shop. That's

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<v Speaker 1>how popular it was.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you mean to buy a vinyl pre order.

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<v Speaker 1>A vinyl copy? I want to talk a bit about

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<v Speaker 1>why she chose to go on New Heights though.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, this is the part I am really interested in

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<v Speaker 3>because I'm impressed. Okay, and your sentiment, Holly. It is

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<v Speaker 3>reflected on the internet. There is a viral comment that says,

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<v Speaker 3>Taylor Swift has led me to places I wouldn't even

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<v Speaker 3>go with a gun listening to a podcast hosted by men.

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<v Speaker 3>Commentator Hannah Ferguson wrote, yes, I will be the first listener.

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<v Speaker 3>But imagine being one of the most successful women in

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<v Speaker 3>the world and announcing your next huge career milestone on

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<v Speaker 3>your boyfriend's sports podcast. Why do we think she decided

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<v Speaker 3>to do that?

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<v Speaker 2>Wain right, Well, Amelia, I can't tell you why, but

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<v Speaker 2>I can tell you that I don't like it, but

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<v Speaker 2>we'll get to that.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm wrong. You were wrong. Taylor and Travis have become

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<v Speaker 1>an iconic unit in themselves and just also overnight, as

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<v Speaker 1>if there wasn't enough news, Travis came out on the

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<v Speaker 1>cover of usgq's September issue, which is a really big deal,

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<v Speaker 1>and he was styled in that by law Roach. She

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<v Speaker 1>styles Zenday like. He has become a huge iconic figure

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<v Speaker 1>in American pop culture as a result of his relationship

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<v Speaker 1>with Taylor. In addition to his football career.

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<v Speaker 3>He plays football apparently tight end.

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<v Speaker 2>When he's not being Taylor Swift's boyfriends.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to unpack why I think they're such a

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<v Speaker 1>good couple together and why it therefore makes sense for

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<v Speaker 1>her to announce this on his podcast. Let's run through

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<v Speaker 1>a few things they have in common. Both have parents

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<v Speaker 1>who separated in their early adulthood, and this is something

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<v Speaker 1>that is a big canon event for Travis. He talks

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<v Speaker 1>about it a lot in the GQ article. They were

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<v Speaker 1>both in their early twenties when their parents divorced. They

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<v Speaker 1>maintain close relationships with their parents, and their parents maintain

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<v Speaker 1>close relationships with each other. Secondly, both very close to

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<v Speaker 1>their brothers. Taylor's brother, Austin, is in charge of a

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<v Speaker 1>music licensing business. Travis hosts this pod cast with his brother.

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<v Speaker 1>Both talk a lot about having a really strong work ethic.

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<v Speaker 1>They both love self promotion. They're both very unabashed about it,

0:11:17.662 --> 0:11:20.662
<v Speaker 1>and we love that for them. And then, finally, not

0:11:20.742 --> 0:11:23.982
<v Speaker 1>all of us do. Before the gen Exit talks about

0:11:23.982 --> 0:11:27.622
<v Speaker 1>selling out. There's an anecdote in the GQ piece which

0:11:27.662 --> 0:11:29.782
<v Speaker 1>I want to share because I think it really gets

0:11:29.782 --> 0:11:33.582
<v Speaker 1>at what these two seemingly very different people actually seeing

0:11:33.662 --> 0:11:37.262
<v Speaker 1>each other. Travis is at a restaurant with a singing waiter.

0:11:37.382 --> 0:11:39.542
<v Speaker 1>I don't know why. It's one of those odd celebrity

0:11:39.542 --> 0:11:42.102
<v Speaker 1>profile tropes where you go to a weird restaurant and

0:11:42.142 --> 0:11:44.622
<v Speaker 1>the singing waiter comes over to the table and starts

0:11:44.662 --> 0:11:48.342
<v Speaker 1>singing Lauren Hill's song X Factor. Now that sounds a

0:11:48.342 --> 0:11:51.862
<v Speaker 1>little cringe inducing, a little mortifying, and the interviewer is

0:11:52.022 --> 0:11:55.462
<v Speaker 1>very embarrassed, but he looks across at Travis, and Travis

0:11:55.502 --> 0:11:58.422
<v Speaker 1>is sitting hands in lap, gazing up respectfully at this

0:11:58.582 --> 0:12:00.822
<v Speaker 1>singing waiter and just listening until the end of the

0:12:00.862 --> 0:12:03.022
<v Speaker 1>song and then thanking her for her service as she

0:12:03.062 --> 0:12:05.622
<v Speaker 1>moves along to the next table. That reminded me of

0:12:05.662 --> 0:12:08.142
<v Speaker 1>how the one thing we know about Taylor Allison Swift

0:12:08.222 --> 0:12:11.342
<v Speaker 1>outside of the law is that she's extremely respectful to people,

0:12:11.422 --> 0:12:13.942
<v Speaker 1>no matter their station. We've heard a lot about how

0:12:13.942 --> 0:12:18.182
<v Speaker 1>she tips people enormous amounts over the holidays. Everyone fans

0:12:18.222 --> 0:12:20.702
<v Speaker 1>says she's extremely gracious to them. I think that's what

0:12:20.742 --> 0:12:23.422
<v Speaker 1>these two people have in common. They're people who market

0:12:23.462 --> 0:12:27.702
<v Speaker 1>themselves as normal people, and they have the good manners

0:12:27.742 --> 0:12:30.302
<v Speaker 1>and the behavior to kind of back up that demeanor.

0:12:30.502 --> 0:12:32.262
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but all you've done there is tell me why

0:12:32.262 --> 0:12:35.102
<v Speaker 2>they're a good match and that's fine, right, that's so fine.

0:12:35.142 --> 0:12:37.622
<v Speaker 2>I'm so glad for them, very happy for them, very happy.

0:12:38.422 --> 0:12:41.582
<v Speaker 2>We've all heard a lot about the less good matches

0:12:41.662 --> 0:12:44.342
<v Speaker 2>that Taylor has dated, and I love those songs. In fact,

0:12:44.342 --> 0:12:46.382
<v Speaker 2>I'm much more here for heartbreak song than a happy song.

0:12:46.742 --> 0:12:49.262
<v Speaker 2>And I know this is my gen X coding that

0:12:49.382 --> 0:12:54.022
<v Speaker 2>is deep within me, right that finds it a tiny

0:12:54.062 --> 0:12:59.262
<v Speaker 2>bit icky that it's all so marketing like all the time.

0:12:59.782 --> 0:13:01.782
<v Speaker 2>And I'm so sorry because I know swift Is will

0:13:01.862 --> 0:13:04.622
<v Speaker 2>hate me so much for saying this, But I love

0:13:04.702 --> 0:13:07.502
<v Speaker 2>Taylor Swift. I think she's a genius. But the thing

0:13:07.542 --> 0:13:12.382
<v Speaker 2>about her that grates me is the intensely thought out

0:13:12.542 --> 0:13:16.502
<v Speaker 2>everything at all times. I love that, the twelve eyes

0:13:16.662 --> 0:13:19.381
<v Speaker 2>in this, the twelve pictures on the thing, the twelve,

0:13:19.582 --> 0:13:22.902
<v Speaker 2>the twelve that and the fact that nothing is organic.

0:13:23.022 --> 0:13:25.662
<v Speaker 2>I find that difficult. And I know it's my gen

0:13:25.702 --> 0:13:28.262
<v Speaker 2>EX coding. It's like intrusive thoughts. I can't help it.

0:13:28.302 --> 0:13:30.382
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, shut up, Holly, and I'm like, isn't it

0:13:30.382 --> 0:13:32.302
<v Speaker 2>great that she's going out with a blokey bloke? And

0:13:32.342 --> 0:13:35.182
<v Speaker 2>then I'm like, but DoD Jocks really need another win? No,

0:13:35.542 --> 0:13:39.261
<v Speaker 2>I surely stop it, like I just can't with them,

0:13:39.382 --> 0:13:42.142
<v Speaker 2>and so I know that they're lovely. But here's my

0:13:42.262 --> 0:13:45.462
<v Speaker 2>thing that I find really interesting is sure they're very happy,

0:13:45.462 --> 0:13:46.982
<v Speaker 2>and I'm sure they're going to go on to be

0:13:47.062 --> 0:13:49.622
<v Speaker 2>very happy. But it's so interesting to do such as

0:13:49.662 --> 0:13:53.022
<v Speaker 2>one ady from being a very private person in your

0:13:53.062 --> 0:13:56.502
<v Speaker 2>love life, because even with all the song lyrics, she's

0:13:56.542 --> 0:13:58.902
<v Speaker 2>always intensely private, like she when she went out with

0:13:58.902 --> 0:14:00.902
<v Speaker 2>that what's his name, the one who's not very good

0:14:00.942 --> 0:14:04.022
<v Speaker 2>actor Joe al Yes, like they went out of their

0:14:04.062 --> 0:14:07.222
<v Speaker 2>way to barely be photographed together, like silhouettes of him

0:14:07.222 --> 0:14:10.262
<v Speaker 2>would appear. And then so her and Travis are on stage,

0:14:10.262 --> 0:14:12.942
<v Speaker 2>they're on each other's podcast, and I think that's wonderful

0:14:12.942 --> 0:14:15.502
<v Speaker 2>because maybe he's really comfortable with her success. But isn't

0:14:15.542 --> 0:14:18.182
<v Speaker 2>it a weird relationship? One eighty and then to go,

0:14:18.742 --> 0:14:21.862
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to direct millions and millions of listeners to

0:14:21.942 --> 0:14:23.062
<v Speaker 2>this show, Like it's.

0:14:22.982 --> 0:14:26.622
<v Speaker 3>Just no, because we don't know if that was Taylor's choice, right,

0:14:26.702 --> 0:14:31.262
<v Speaker 3>Like she did have boyfriends, yes, yes, yes, yes, if

0:14:31.302 --> 0:14:33.502
<v Speaker 3>that was her choice when it came to Joe Urwiner

0:14:33.742 --> 0:14:36.782
<v Speaker 3>or other relationships that she had, those relationships didn't work

0:14:36.822 --> 0:14:38.142
<v Speaker 3>and she's landed with Travis.

0:14:37.822 --> 0:14:40.262
<v Speaker 2>But they did work for a time, like you know, but.

0:14:40.222 --> 0:14:45.702
<v Speaker 3>They ultimately ended. And Travis is the first partner of Taylor,

0:14:45.862 --> 0:14:49.102
<v Speaker 3>who is a sort of an unashamed fanboy.

0:14:49.142 --> 0:14:51.222
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to pull you up on that. Tom Hitdleston

0:14:51.582 --> 0:14:55.102
<v Speaker 1>wore the iHeart t s tank.

0:14:56.582 --> 0:15:01.742
<v Speaker 2>They were pat pictures, so it's different like paparazzi being

0:15:01.822 --> 0:15:04.982
<v Speaker 2>caught out. Like you know, there are photographs of her

0:15:05.022 --> 0:15:06.982
<v Speaker 2>with all these people, but most of them are pap

0:15:07.262 --> 0:15:09.782
<v Speaker 2>Generally speaking, she has tried to keep it very on

0:15:09.822 --> 0:15:12.542
<v Speaker 2>the download and I'm I'm all for evolution, So maybe

0:15:12.542 --> 0:15:14.382
<v Speaker 2>she's very much like and look at that. That was

0:15:14.422 --> 0:15:16.702
<v Speaker 2>bullshit and I think of all the wasted energy of

0:15:16.782 --> 0:15:19.342
<v Speaker 2>not being out and proud and the two of us.

0:15:19.582 --> 0:15:20.622
<v Speaker 2>But it's just I don't.

0:15:20.502 --> 0:15:23.302
<v Speaker 3>Know, Okay, I have some pr theories that I have

0:15:23.502 --> 0:15:28.942
<v Speaker 3>gleaned from the internet. Okay, So she is above doing

0:15:28.982 --> 0:15:30.662
<v Speaker 3>the circuit, the podcast circuit.

0:15:30.662 --> 0:15:32.182
<v Speaker 2>Oh obviously hasn't even given anything.

0:15:32.262 --> 0:15:35.542
<v Speaker 1>That's what they wanted to ask, why this podcast a

0:15:35.542 --> 0:15:37.862
<v Speaker 1>football podcast as opposed to call her daddy?

0:15:38.182 --> 0:15:41.302
<v Speaker 3>Well, I reckon that it is about She can obviously

0:15:41.302 --> 0:15:44.142
<v Speaker 3>do any podcast in the world. She would be most

0:15:44.142 --> 0:15:47.502
<v Speaker 3>comfortable with Travis. She gets to be candid, but she

0:15:47.542 --> 0:15:50.302
<v Speaker 3>also gets to have total control, whereas if she were

0:15:50.302 --> 0:15:53.382
<v Speaker 3>on anyone else's platform, she probably wouldn't. Imagine how reluctant

0:15:53.382 --> 0:15:55.862
<v Speaker 3>you would be after she has done sort of podcast

0:15:55.902 --> 0:15:58.302
<v Speaker 3>interviews in the past, like five years ago or so.

0:15:58.422 --> 0:16:01.422
<v Speaker 3>But we know she controls publicity around her so.

0:16:01.542 --> 0:16:03.702
<v Speaker 2>Care she would have total control if she went on

0:16:03.702 --> 0:16:07.062
<v Speaker 2>call her daddy, total control, Like there is no more

0:16:07.102 --> 0:16:09.062
<v Speaker 2>powerful pop culture figure in the world. We all know

0:16:09.102 --> 0:16:12.302
<v Speaker 2>about Tree Pain, who's her legendary public says too, you

0:16:12.342 --> 0:16:14.822
<v Speaker 2>know what cracks a whip like she could have chosen

0:16:15.382 --> 0:16:18.702
<v Speaker 2>any of them, Dax Mark, they're all blokes, yeah, except

0:16:18.702 --> 0:16:19.182
<v Speaker 2>for Alex.

0:16:19.382 --> 0:16:21.982
<v Speaker 3>The format of those is long form, and I don't

0:16:21.982 --> 0:16:24.262
<v Speaker 3>think that Taylor is particularly comfortable doing long form. She

0:16:24.382 --> 0:16:26.182
<v Speaker 3>gets to decide if this is five or ten or

0:16:26.182 --> 0:16:27.582
<v Speaker 3>fifth how long do you think it's going to be.

0:16:27.822 --> 0:16:29.302
<v Speaker 3>I don't think it's going to be an hour. I

0:16:29.342 --> 0:16:30.862
<v Speaker 3>reckon it's probably going to be like fifteen.

0:16:30.902 --> 0:16:33.342
<v Speaker 1>I don't think Travis is really into an hour long

0:16:33.382 --> 0:16:34.422
<v Speaker 1>interview anyone.

0:16:34.582 --> 0:16:38.862
<v Speaker 3>No, And this is my other theory. Okay, So GQ

0:16:39.022 --> 0:16:41.582
<v Speaker 3>interview Travis does talk a little bit about Taylor, and

0:16:41.622 --> 0:16:44.742
<v Speaker 3>you know, anything he says has been Tree has checked it,

0:16:44.782 --> 0:16:47.302
<v Speaker 3>and he's just repeating what he's allowed to say. He

0:16:47.382 --> 0:16:51.182
<v Speaker 3>talked about how Taylor is like an athlete, he's been

0:16:51.182 --> 0:16:54.262
<v Speaker 3>blown away by she walks off stage and he just goes,

0:16:54.582 --> 0:16:57.422
<v Speaker 3>that was an athletic performance. How tired she is afterwards.

0:16:57.462 --> 0:16:59.702
<v Speaker 3>All of that, which I think is hyping up the

0:16:59.742 --> 0:17:01.462
<v Speaker 3>album because the album is going to be all about

0:17:01.622 --> 0:17:04.982
<v Speaker 3>the Eras tour and the Showgirl and blah blah blah. Now,

0:17:05.061 --> 0:17:07.742
<v Speaker 3>why would she go on New Heights because it's her

0:17:07.782 --> 0:17:12.461
<v Speaker 3>boyfriend Theory Hollywayen. Right, there is one thing she's never done.

0:17:12.702 --> 0:17:15.061
<v Speaker 3>She's never done the super Bowl, right, And she has

0:17:15.101 --> 0:17:17.181
<v Speaker 3>been on the record as saying I want to do

0:17:17.222 --> 0:17:19.102
<v Speaker 3>six albums or something before I do the super Bowl.

0:17:19.182 --> 0:17:20.381
<v Speaker 3>She was doing the Eras to a few years and

0:17:20.422 --> 0:17:20.862
<v Speaker 3>years and years.

0:17:20.942 --> 0:17:25.462
<v Speaker 1>Jesse, I just got chills. And see where you're checking this.

0:17:25.542 --> 0:17:28.102
<v Speaker 3>There's something about the super Bowl happening next year, something

0:17:28.101 --> 0:17:31.221
<v Speaker 3>about it happening in California, which has some relationship to Orange.

0:17:31.502 --> 0:17:32.782
<v Speaker 3>I think she's doing the super Bowl.

0:17:33.182 --> 0:17:33.861
<v Speaker 1>What's the Orange?

0:17:33.901 --> 0:17:36.902
<v Speaker 3>I don't know, Amelia, I don't understand any of the clues.

0:17:37.061 --> 0:17:39.142
<v Speaker 1>This is such a good theory up until what were

0:17:39.182 --> 0:17:40.381
<v Speaker 1>you through orange.

0:17:39.982 --> 0:17:41.702
<v Speaker 3>Into Everything is orange?

0:17:41.742 --> 0:17:44.941
<v Speaker 2>Now? All right, it's my cynical side. I know it

0:17:45.061 --> 0:17:48.462
<v Speaker 2>is my genic cynical side. Every relationship is a happy

0:17:48.542 --> 0:17:52.181
<v Speaker 2>ending till it isn't. You often regret being quite so

0:17:52.302 --> 0:17:54.861
<v Speaker 2>gushy and open in a relationship who hasn't been there.

0:17:54.861 --> 0:17:58.061
<v Speaker 2>Two years in, you're telling everybody, this is my person.

0:17:58.101 --> 0:18:01.221
<v Speaker 2>I've never felt more understood. Six months later you're like,

0:18:01.821 --> 0:18:02.742
<v Speaker 2>what did I ever see in that?

0:18:03.182 --> 0:18:03.342
<v Speaker 5>What?

0:18:03.581 --> 0:18:06.141
<v Speaker 3>Like even if they break up tomorrow. It's like she's

0:18:06.182 --> 0:18:08.821
<v Speaker 3>done so many different announcements for albums. Remember last time

0:18:08.821 --> 0:18:10.741
<v Speaker 3>she got so much because she did it at the

0:18:10.782 --> 0:18:14.341
<v Speaker 3>ground Gray and so people went, yeah, you're feeling someone's moment.

0:18:14.381 --> 0:18:16.542
<v Speaker 3>And then with this one, it's like with your boyfriend.

0:18:16.702 --> 0:18:17.742
<v Speaker 3>I mean, it's just an album.

0:18:17.982 --> 0:18:20.901
<v Speaker 2>That's one hundred percent true. That is one hundred percent true.

0:18:20.982 --> 0:18:23.221
<v Speaker 2>But I think that one of the things that the

0:18:23.302 --> 0:18:27.581
<v Speaker 2>tailor law does is encourages over analyzation. That's the whole point.

0:18:27.702 --> 0:18:29.141
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, she's a walking point for it.

0:18:29.302 --> 0:18:32.621
<v Speaker 2>So it's not like who cares, It's like, there's got

0:18:32.621 --> 0:18:32.942
<v Speaker 2>to be.

0:18:32.901 --> 0:18:35.582
<v Speaker 3>A reason I have one more question familiar, which is,

0:18:35.901 --> 0:18:40.341
<v Speaker 3>if we go these leaks started yesterday, Tree Pain would

0:18:40.381 --> 0:18:43.742
<v Speaker 3>have been on the phone having a panic attack. Do

0:18:43.782 --> 0:18:46.621
<v Speaker 3>we think that something hasty happened yesterday. Do you think

0:18:46.661 --> 0:18:49.502
<v Speaker 3>that yesterday unfolded like the plan was, or did they

0:18:49.542 --> 0:18:51.581
<v Speaker 3>have to make changes in real time about the kind

0:18:51.581 --> 0:18:52.181
<v Speaker 3>of announcement.

0:18:52.381 --> 0:18:55.181
<v Speaker 1>It's interesting because it is her twelfth album, so the

0:18:55.621 --> 0:18:58.621
<v Speaker 1>numerology of it all kind of added up. I looked

0:18:58.621 --> 0:19:02.821
<v Speaker 1>closely at her presentation in the podcast video. She had

0:19:02.861 --> 0:19:05.661
<v Speaker 1>a perfect cat eye, which was interesting. But I imagine

0:19:05.661 --> 0:19:07.941
<v Speaker 1>it's probably not hard for Taylor Swift to rustle up

0:19:07.982 --> 0:19:10.061
<v Speaker 1>and make up artist on short notice, or maybe she's

0:19:10.101 --> 0:19:13.141
<v Speaker 1>even perfected her own cat I. I think she was

0:19:13.182 --> 0:19:16.821
<v Speaker 1>wearing a shirt that she tucked in because she wanted

0:19:16.821 --> 0:19:21.981
<v Speaker 1>to avoid pregnancy speculation as to whether this was planned

0:19:22.022 --> 0:19:25.982
<v Speaker 1>the podcast appearance, she could have done that on the fly.

0:19:26.302 --> 0:19:28.662
<v Speaker 1>They appeared to be home together at one of their

0:19:28.661 --> 0:19:32.061
<v Speaker 1>many mansions in the American Midwest, and it could have

0:19:32.141 --> 0:19:34.381
<v Speaker 1>been something that was pulled together very quickly.

0:19:34.381 --> 0:19:37.741
<v Speaker 3>And maybe that's the reason. Maybe there wasn't time to

0:19:37.742 --> 0:19:39.701
<v Speaker 3>do all the contracts and all of that for call

0:19:39.742 --> 0:19:41.221
<v Speaker 3>her Daddy and they just went screw up. We'll do

0:19:41.262 --> 0:19:43.581
<v Speaker 3>Travis here he is with his microphone.

0:19:42.782 --> 0:19:47.782
<v Speaker 2>I also love that Taylor Swift's version of a chaotic

0:19:47.821 --> 0:19:51.381
<v Speaker 2>album launch would be anybody else's like mastermind quisition.

0:19:52.381 --> 0:19:55.061
<v Speaker 3>I will say one of our content producers is swifty.

0:19:55.661 --> 0:19:56.462
<v Speaker 2>Just show me one.

0:19:57.821 --> 0:20:01.141
<v Speaker 3>There's quite as so many of them, and they're yelling.

0:20:01.821 --> 0:20:03.701
<v Speaker 3>There was an equation on the board yesterday, and I

0:20:03.782 --> 0:20:06.902
<v Speaker 3>still don't understand someone's an equation.

0:20:07.061 --> 0:20:08.662
<v Speaker 1>It's like Russell Crow in a beautiful Wine.

0:20:08.742 --> 0:20:12.581
<v Speaker 3>It's exactly like that the Swifties. And she says that

0:20:12.661 --> 0:20:16.302
<v Speaker 3>the Chief's colors, the Chiefs is who Travis played with

0:20:16.422 --> 0:20:19.222
<v Speaker 3>and he won the Super Bowl. The Chiefs is red

0:20:19.302 --> 0:20:23.661
<v Speaker 3>and yellow. And what do those colors make together? Ladies,

0:20:23.901 --> 0:20:25.222
<v Speaker 3>Oh my goodness, it's orange.

0:20:25.262 --> 0:20:28.182
<v Speaker 2>But one question about the Super Bowl. There's no guarantee

0:20:28.182 --> 0:20:29.621
<v Speaker 2>the Chiefs are going to be in the Super Bowl.

0:20:29.901 --> 0:20:32.142
<v Speaker 2>Is it like? If the Chiefs get to the Super Bowl,

0:20:33.462 --> 0:20:35.941
<v Speaker 2>and if the Chiefs do not, she will.

0:20:37.302 --> 0:20:37.462
<v Speaker 1>There.

0:20:37.581 --> 0:20:38.581
<v Speaker 2>The Carpenter could do it.

0:20:38.621 --> 0:20:43.462
<v Speaker 1>There is scarrelous gossip, very scurlous that the Chiefs. It's

0:20:43.502 --> 0:20:47.061
<v Speaker 1>in the NFL's interest, the National Football League's interest, to

0:20:47.182 --> 0:20:48.982
<v Speaker 1>make sure that the Chiefs get to the Super Bowl.

0:20:49.462 --> 0:20:51.701
<v Speaker 1>They have made it to the Super Bowl two of

0:20:51.742 --> 0:20:54.621
<v Speaker 1>the last two Super Bowls. I'm just leaving that there.

0:20:55.422 --> 0:20:57.101
<v Speaker 1>In a moment, I break down some of the big

0:20:57.141 --> 0:20:58.702
<v Speaker 1>stories happening in the world this week.

0:21:02.381 --> 0:21:04.861
<v Speaker 2>You might have noticed that there is a lot going

0:21:04.901 --> 0:21:06.821
<v Speaker 2>on in the world at the moment, and there is

0:21:06.861 --> 0:21:10.422
<v Speaker 2>a lot going on specifically in foreign policy. Now, our

0:21:10.502 --> 0:21:13.542
<v Speaker 2>Amelia Lester has a day job. Do you know what

0:21:13.542 --> 0:21:14.621
<v Speaker 2>it is, Jesse Stephens.

0:21:14.661 --> 0:21:19.581
<v Speaker 3>She is a boss lady at a place called Foreign

0:21:19.621 --> 0:21:20.942
<v Speaker 3>Policy Holly Wainwright.

0:21:21.101 --> 0:21:25.262
<v Speaker 2>She is an editor there. Yes, we often ask Amelia

0:21:25.302 --> 0:21:27.461
<v Speaker 2>to explain things to us, to break things down for us,

0:21:27.502 --> 0:21:29.462
<v Speaker 2>and we thought it would be great to do that

0:21:29.581 --> 0:21:32.141
<v Speaker 2>on the show this week. Complicated stuff gone on in

0:21:32.182 --> 0:21:34.101
<v Speaker 2>the world. We asked, Amelia, can you get us across

0:21:34.141 --> 0:21:35.501
<v Speaker 2>it in five minutes?

0:21:36.022 --> 0:21:37.661
<v Speaker 3>And I should tell you, Amelia the other day I

0:21:37.661 --> 0:21:39.621
<v Speaker 3>was reading the Substack and it was referring to it

0:21:39.702 --> 0:21:42.221
<v Speaker 3>was giving an example of like, you know, I'm not

0:21:42.422 --> 0:21:45.861
<v Speaker 3>blah as in some really smart you know publication, and

0:21:45.901 --> 0:21:50.422
<v Speaker 3>it said foreign policy and she is actually really smart.

0:21:50.542 --> 0:21:53.101
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there is certainly a lot going on in foreign

0:21:53.182 --> 0:21:55.581
<v Speaker 1>policy around the world at the moment. Too much for

0:21:55.621 --> 0:21:59.022
<v Speaker 1>five minutes, But there are three big stories that I

0:21:59.022 --> 0:22:01.261
<v Speaker 1>want to get you across in the next five minutes.

0:22:01.542 --> 0:22:06.262
<v Speaker 1>Here goes. On Monday, Anthony Albanezi joined France and Canada

0:22:06.302 --> 0:22:09.182
<v Speaker 1>in announcing that Australia was going to recognize the state

0:22:09.222 --> 0:22:12.222
<v Speaker 1>of Palestine. This is going to happen at next month's

0:22:12.341 --> 0:22:15.662
<v Speaker 1>United Nations General Assembly in New York. Now, look, what's

0:22:15.702 --> 0:22:17.621
<v Speaker 1>interesting is that seventy five percent of countries in the

0:22:17.621 --> 0:22:21.382
<v Speaker 1>world already recognized Palestine as a state. But what's been

0:22:21.422 --> 0:22:24.222
<v Speaker 1>happening in the last few weeks is that these Western countries,

0:22:24.262 --> 0:22:27.221
<v Speaker 1>including Australia, have been getting on board with this. And

0:22:27.262 --> 0:22:30.622
<v Speaker 1>it's a sign of how much international opinion has shifted

0:22:30.661 --> 0:22:33.861
<v Speaker 1>on Israel in recent weeks. Okay, next, I have a

0:22:33.942 --> 0:22:36.861
<v Speaker 1>Chump update. It's been seven months since he was inaugurated,

0:22:36.942 --> 0:22:40.021
<v Speaker 1>and a lot of the discussion I've noticed around in

0:22:40.061 --> 0:22:42.621
<v Speaker 1>the American left has been revolving around this idea of

0:22:42.942 --> 0:22:45.542
<v Speaker 1>how bad are things and how bad are things going

0:22:45.581 --> 0:22:47.542
<v Speaker 1>to get. That's where a lot of the conversation is

0:22:47.621 --> 0:22:51.302
<v Speaker 1>right now in terms of Trump's kind of authoritarian tendencies.

0:22:51.901 --> 0:22:55.702
<v Speaker 1>Last week, I was really startled because the TV host

0:22:55.821 --> 0:22:59.542
<v Speaker 1>Rachel Maddow called it. She said that the United States

0:22:59.742 --> 0:23:03.502
<v Speaker 1>is now a consolidating dictatorship. So let's listen to what

0:23:03.542 --> 0:23:04.182
<v Speaker 1>she had to say.

0:23:04.621 --> 0:23:07.542
<v Speaker 5>Life has not stopped, and none of our personal lives

0:23:07.542 --> 0:23:10.341
<v Speaker 5>have stopped. But also at the same time, life in

0:23:10.381 --> 0:23:14.901
<v Speaker 5>the United States is profoundly changing, is profoundly different than

0:23:14.942 --> 0:23:18.581
<v Speaker 5>it was even six months ago, because we do now

0:23:18.661 --> 0:23:22.421
<v Speaker 5>live in a country that has an authoritarian leader in charge.

0:23:22.581 --> 0:23:25.661
<v Speaker 1>So matdaw is very much, i should say, a liberal commentator.

0:23:25.702 --> 0:23:28.542
<v Speaker 1>She is very much on the left. But the evidence

0:23:28.581 --> 0:23:30.661
<v Speaker 1>that she gathered for that claim and giving it that

0:23:30.861 --> 0:23:33.742
<v Speaker 1>name was really compelling. She was pointing to, for instance,

0:23:33.821 --> 0:23:38.101
<v Speaker 1>Trump's secret police forces, immigrations and Customs enforcement agents who

0:23:38.101 --> 0:23:39.901
<v Speaker 1>go around scapegoading immigrants.

0:23:40.182 --> 0:23:40.782
<v Speaker 3>That's ice.

0:23:41.022 --> 0:23:44.022
<v Speaker 1>That's ice. Yep. So that was last week. But if

0:23:44.061 --> 0:23:46.141
<v Speaker 1>she'd been doing the segment this week, she could have

0:23:46.222 --> 0:23:49.782
<v Speaker 1>mentioned another new development, which is that Trump authorized what

0:23:49.901 --> 0:23:52.861
<v Speaker 1>is essentially a federal takeover of the capital of Washington,

0:23:52.942 --> 0:23:53.181
<v Speaker 1>d C.

0:23:53.341 --> 0:23:55.662
<v Speaker 3>Okay, I've seen those headlines. What does that mean?

0:23:55.901 --> 0:23:57.982
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So this is personal for me because I lived

0:23:57.982 --> 0:24:00.502
<v Speaker 1>in Washington, d C. For many years. It is my

0:24:00.742 --> 0:24:03.461
<v Speaker 1>United States home. People in Washington, d C are not

0:24:03.462 --> 0:24:05.742
<v Speaker 1>happy about it. Basically, what he did is he mobilized

0:24:05.742 --> 0:24:08.061
<v Speaker 1>the National Guard, which is a branch of the military

0:24:08.101 --> 0:24:11.621
<v Speaker 1>that's meant to look after national emergencies. There's a flood somewhere,

0:24:11.661 --> 0:24:13.581
<v Speaker 1>there's an earthquake somewhere, They're going to be there to

0:24:13.661 --> 0:24:14.141
<v Speaker 1>help out.

0:24:14.581 --> 0:24:16.742
<v Speaker 2>And was this in response to anything in particular.

0:24:16.942 --> 0:24:21.302
<v Speaker 1>No, he said that DC was full of filth and scum,

0:24:21.581 --> 0:24:24.821
<v Speaker 1>and he used inaccurate crime statistics to prove his point

0:24:24.861 --> 0:24:26.702
<v Speaker 1>that DC was kind of a hell hole.

0:24:26.782 --> 0:24:29.382
<v Speaker 2>That when he said filth and scum, he meant human beings.

0:24:29.782 --> 0:24:33.462
<v Speaker 1>Yes, So, finally the world is going to be watching

0:24:33.502 --> 0:24:36.782
<v Speaker 1>what's happening in Alaska. On Friday, Big deal. Trump is

0:24:36.821 --> 0:24:39.662
<v Speaker 1>going to be meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin. There

0:24:40.341 --> 0:24:43.901
<v Speaker 1>it's Trump's seventh in person meeting with Putin. That's seven

0:24:43.942 --> 0:24:46.621
<v Speaker 1>more times than he's met with Anthony Albanisi. Trump and

0:24:46.621 --> 0:24:49.182
<v Speaker 1>Putin are meant to be hammering out a peace deal

0:24:49.262 --> 0:24:53.422
<v Speaker 1>on Ukraine, which Russia invaded in February of twenty twenty three.

0:24:53.821 --> 0:24:59.101
<v Speaker 1>They haven't invited Ukraine's president Vladimir Zelenski, and Zelenski and

0:24:59.302 --> 0:25:02.542
<v Speaker 1>European leaders are really worried about what Putin and Trump

0:25:02.581 --> 0:25:04.341
<v Speaker 1>are going to discuss here and what terms they're going

0:25:04.341 --> 0:25:06.702
<v Speaker 1>to put on this so called peace deal, especially since

0:25:06.702 --> 0:25:08.901
<v Speaker 1>both Trump and Putin have been talking about the idea

0:25:08.901 --> 0:25:11.181
<v Speaker 1>of a lance op Zwanski doesn't want a land swap.

0:25:11.222 --> 0:25:13.222
<v Speaker 1>He doesn't want any Russian land. He doesn't want Russia

0:25:13.262 --> 0:25:17.542
<v Speaker 1>taking Ukrainian land. Putin, though, is a very devious man.

0:25:17.621 --> 0:25:20.702
<v Speaker 1>He is a former KGB agent. He knows a lot

0:25:20.742 --> 0:25:23.101
<v Speaker 1>about how to push people's buttons. He's shown that he

0:25:23.141 --> 0:25:26.661
<v Speaker 1>can manipulate Trump time and time again. He famously, I

0:25:26.702 --> 0:25:28.662
<v Speaker 1>don't know if you remember this, but one time when

0:25:28.661 --> 0:25:31.661
<v Speaker 1>he was meeting with the former German leader Angela Merkle,

0:25:32.141 --> 0:25:35.181
<v Speaker 1>he had a dog wander into the meeting. Merkle is

0:25:35.222 --> 0:25:38.422
<v Speaker 1>famously scared of dogs, and she visibly tensed up when

0:25:38.462 --> 0:25:41.782
<v Speaker 1>this large dog came in and wandered around her ankles

0:25:41.782 --> 0:25:44.381
<v Speaker 1>for no reason, and it really did put her on

0:25:44.502 --> 0:25:46.302
<v Speaker 1>the back book in the negotiations.

0:25:46.422 --> 0:25:48.222
<v Speaker 2>He doesn't even like dogs.

0:25:48.502 --> 0:25:51.782
<v Speaker 1>So Trump, I think, is pretty inclined to go along

0:25:51.821 --> 0:25:54.341
<v Speaker 1>with what Putin has to say anyway, But I'm sort

0:25:54.381 --> 0:25:57.902
<v Speaker 1>of wondering what Putin is going to bring to scare Trump?

0:25:58.302 --> 0:26:01.302
<v Speaker 1>Is he going to bring a salad or maybe a

0:26:01.341 --> 0:26:07.861
<v Speaker 1>climate scientist or what about an older woman climate scientist.

0:26:07.502 --> 0:26:11.821
<v Speaker 3>Over the age of thirty five. I was thinking Putin

0:26:12.141 --> 0:26:15.461
<v Speaker 3>might bring a cold the flu, because isn't he a

0:26:15.542 --> 0:26:18.502
<v Speaker 3>germified so just with a real dirty hand.

0:26:18.302 --> 0:26:21.222
<v Speaker 1>And he hasn't gotten his flu vaccine, we can almost.

0:26:21.542 --> 0:26:25.861
<v Speaker 3>I also wondered some reading material, imagine Trump's reaction to

0:26:25.901 --> 0:26:28.381
<v Speaker 3>that and the other thing I went, what would really

0:26:28.381 --> 0:26:31.181
<v Speaker 3>scare him? I'll never forget this when Trump said that

0:26:31.302 --> 0:26:33.421
<v Speaker 3>humans are built like batteries and if we exercise too

0:26:33.502 --> 0:26:36.222
<v Speaker 3>much will run out, Like he worries about exercise because

0:26:36.222 --> 0:26:39.022
<v Speaker 3>he doesn't. He doesn't because he thinks it's bad for help.

0:26:39.542 --> 0:26:42.061
<v Speaker 3>So I'm thinking, like if he brought a treadmill or

0:26:42.141 --> 0:26:44.742
<v Speaker 3>like weights, or like what about if.

0:26:44.621 --> 0:26:46.341
<v Speaker 1>He turned it into you know how there was this

0:26:46.381 --> 0:26:49.421
<v Speaker 1>trend for walking meetings years ago, was like, let's take

0:26:49.422 --> 0:26:50.462
<v Speaker 1>a walk around Alaska.

0:26:50.661 --> 0:26:52.741
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, be terrified.

0:26:53.061 --> 0:26:55.222
<v Speaker 2>After that rundown, I'm like, no wonder people are doing

0:26:55.262 --> 0:26:59.101
<v Speaker 2>equations about when Taylor fucking album is coming out next?

0:27:00.222 --> 0:27:01.022
<v Speaker 3>After the break?

0:27:01.341 --> 0:27:05.742
<v Speaker 2>Should children be allowed in public spaces like at all? Ever?

0:27:06.502 --> 0:27:10.302
<v Speaker 2>Vigorous debate about sport, restaurants, pubs.

0:27:10.901 --> 0:27:14.862
<v Speaker 3>One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday

0:27:14.901 --> 0:27:19.381
<v Speaker 3>and Thursday exclusively for Muma Mea subscribers. Follow the link

0:27:19.422 --> 0:27:21.421
<v Speaker 3>in the show notes to get us in your ears

0:27:21.502 --> 0:27:24.101
<v Speaker 3>five days a week. And a huge thank you to

0:27:24.182 --> 0:27:25.502
<v Speaker 3>all our current subscribers.

0:27:31.061 --> 0:27:32.462
<v Speaker 2>Okay, over to tennis News.

0:27:33.861 --> 0:27:35.101
<v Speaker 3>I like tennis news.

0:27:35.182 --> 0:27:38.261
<v Speaker 2>I know you do. You are a tennis correspondent and

0:27:38.302 --> 0:27:40.502
<v Speaker 2>I will be relying on your knowledge. Healy here, just

0:27:40.542 --> 0:27:42.381
<v Speaker 2>as we were relying on a Melia Leicester for the

0:27:42.422 --> 0:27:45.782
<v Speaker 2>Taylor Swift knowledge. Twenty two year old British tennis player

0:27:45.861 --> 0:27:49.782
<v Speaker 2>Emma Radakanu was playing a match against Arena A Saberlenka

0:27:49.821 --> 0:27:51.821
<v Speaker 2>at the Cincinnati Open in the Land of the Free

0:27:51.821 --> 0:27:55.581
<v Speaker 2>this week. She was losing and during a crucial point

0:27:55.621 --> 0:27:58.461
<v Speaker 2>in the third set, a child in the crowd started crying.

0:27:59.141 --> 0:28:02.662
<v Speaker 2>After a while, Radikannu gestures to the umpire like, you're

0:28:02.661 --> 0:28:05.302
<v Speaker 2>always saying quiet please, So what about this bullshit? Then?

0:28:05.861 --> 0:28:07.941
<v Speaker 2>And this is what happened. This is what the umpire

0:28:07.982 --> 0:28:11.661
<v Speaker 2>said back, it's a child.

0:28:11.782 --> 0:28:13.302
<v Speaker 1>Do you want me to send the child out of

0:28:13.341 --> 0:28:13.942
<v Speaker 1>the stadium.

0:28:16.901 --> 0:28:19.182
<v Speaker 2>What you can hear there is the crowd or saying, yes,

0:28:19.661 --> 0:28:22.542
<v Speaker 2>kick the baby out, and they all applauded, and Emma

0:28:22.661 --> 0:28:24.341
<v Speaker 2>was kind of I shouldn't say it, but she was

0:28:24.381 --> 0:28:26.742
<v Speaker 2>kind of like shrugging, like, yeah, kick the baby out.

0:28:27.222 --> 0:28:30.022
<v Speaker 2>Details a sketchy on what actually happened next, but Emma

0:28:30.141 --> 0:28:33.861
<v Speaker 2>did lose the match. Jesse, should the kid have been

0:28:33.901 --> 0:28:35.741
<v Speaker 2>at the tennis match in the first place.

0:28:36.422 --> 0:28:39.741
<v Speaker 3>I am on the record as saying that kids and

0:28:39.742 --> 0:28:42.622
<v Speaker 3>babies everywhere let them in. I remember we talked about

0:28:42.661 --> 0:28:47.222
<v Speaker 3>a comedy show we go well, oh me. I think

0:28:47.262 --> 0:28:50.302
<v Speaker 3>that it's really important because where kids don't allowed, their

0:28:50.342 --> 0:28:55.222
<v Speaker 3>parents aren't allowed either. But in this case and how

0:28:55.222 --> 0:28:57.941
<v Speaker 3>it works in tennis is this was a really critical point.

0:28:58.102 --> 0:29:01.662
<v Speaker 3>This was a really important moment in the match. And

0:29:02.142 --> 0:29:06.221
<v Speaker 3>what actually should have happened is that umpire should have

0:29:06.702 --> 0:29:09.422
<v Speaker 3>sorted that out, like it's their job to keep quiet,

0:29:09.661 --> 0:29:12.502
<v Speaker 3>keep everything quiet. I think the important context is that

0:29:12.542 --> 0:29:14.542
<v Speaker 3>wasn't a baby squawking. It wasn't a baby who had

0:29:14.542 --> 0:29:17.221
<v Speaker 3>cried for thirty seconds. It was a baby who had

0:29:17.222 --> 0:29:19.622
<v Speaker 3>been crying for ten minutes, according to reports, and it

0:29:19.661 --> 0:29:21.462
<v Speaker 3>was kind of starting and stopping and starting and stopping,

0:29:21.502 --> 0:29:25.262
<v Speaker 3>and she was finding it really distracting. Now a tennis match,

0:29:25.502 --> 0:29:28.582
<v Speaker 3>if there are people walking around, if a phone is

0:29:28.622 --> 0:29:31.342
<v Speaker 3>going off, like there are signs everywhere at tennis saying

0:29:31.462 --> 0:29:34.142
<v Speaker 3>turn your phones off. There have been cases where someone's

0:29:34.142 --> 0:29:37.022
<v Speaker 3>wearing a watch and the watch is distracting to the

0:29:37.022 --> 0:29:38.582
<v Speaker 3>person who's about to serve, and they ask them to

0:29:38.582 --> 0:29:41.701
<v Speaker 3>take the watch off, Like that is how the sport works.

0:29:41.822 --> 0:29:44.062
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but isn't that changing because I feel like we've

0:29:44.062 --> 0:29:46.342
<v Speaker 2>discussed this a lot that you know, at Wimbledon now

0:29:46.342 --> 0:29:48.461
<v Speaker 2>at the Australian Open, now, people get up and go

0:29:48.462 --> 0:29:50.941
<v Speaker 2>to the bar, people cheer, people cheer, and there's been

0:29:50.942 --> 0:29:53.542
<v Speaker 2>a lot of yeah, lighting up everybody, like we can't

0:29:53.582 --> 0:29:55.582
<v Speaker 2>expect people to sit in silence anymore.

0:29:56.262 --> 0:30:00.941
<v Speaker 3>Well, apparently, what they ordinarily do is make sure that

0:30:01.022 --> 0:30:02.941
<v Speaker 3>if you have young kids with you, they sit you

0:30:02.982 --> 0:30:06.462
<v Speaker 3>near the exit. So there's an understanding that if the

0:30:06.542 --> 0:30:08.702
<v Speaker 3>child starts making noise, then you move out.

0:30:08.822 --> 0:30:10.741
<v Speaker 2>At Wimbledon, the like kids under five in.

0:30:10.902 --> 0:30:12.822
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and I can understand that because of the nature

0:30:12.822 --> 0:30:14.662
<v Speaker 3>of the match. So I actually am on the side

0:30:14.702 --> 0:30:16.862
<v Speaker 3>of the tennis player here. I think that the umpire

0:30:16.862 --> 0:30:19.542
<v Speaker 3>probably should have sorted it or someone in the crowd.

0:30:19.742 --> 0:30:21.941
<v Speaker 3>But in defense of the mother or father who is

0:30:21.982 --> 0:30:24.342
<v Speaker 3>with that child. The other thing you're not really meant

0:30:24.382 --> 0:30:28.022
<v Speaker 3>to do during tenths tennis matches is move It's really distracting.

0:30:28.102 --> 0:30:30.782
<v Speaker 3>So often an umpire will turn around and go, can

0:30:30.822 --> 0:30:32.622
<v Speaker 3>you sit down, because they're trying to serve and there's

0:30:32.622 --> 0:30:35.421
<v Speaker 3>all this movement, So they might have just been like, oh,

0:30:35.502 --> 0:30:36.981
<v Speaker 3>I don't know whether I'm meant to move or not.

0:30:37.702 --> 0:30:40.102
<v Speaker 3>But I do think and this is just common sense, right.

0:30:40.222 --> 0:30:42.342
<v Speaker 3>I think sometimes we treat parents as though they have

0:30:42.382 --> 0:30:45.261
<v Speaker 3>no self awareness about any context or environment. It's like

0:30:46.222 --> 0:30:48.582
<v Speaker 3>I've brought I remember having to take her to a

0:30:48.622 --> 0:30:51.742
<v Speaker 3>premiere for something. Babysitter fell through the second she started

0:30:52.062 --> 0:30:54.182
<v Speaker 3>and she got upset. It was just you get her out.

0:30:54.302 --> 0:30:55.981
<v Speaker 3>In the same way that if I was sitting at

0:30:55.982 --> 0:30:58.302
<v Speaker 3>the tennis and I had a coughing fit, I would go, oh,

0:30:58.382 --> 0:31:00.102
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to get out, because I am just aware

0:31:00.102 --> 0:31:02.781
<v Speaker 3>of everyone else. So I think that the media has

0:31:02.782 --> 0:31:06.422
<v Speaker 3>tried to drum this up as like, ooh, hostility towards kids.

0:31:06.422 --> 0:31:08.102
<v Speaker 3>I don't think that's what it is. I'm actually on

0:31:08.102 --> 0:31:10.262
<v Speaker 3>the side of the tennis player, do you think, Amelia.

0:31:10.382 --> 0:31:13.902
<v Speaker 1>I think that there is this encroaching hostility towards kids.

0:31:13.982 --> 0:31:18.622
<v Speaker 1>And I was reading the comments section on stories around

0:31:18.622 --> 0:31:21.742
<v Speaker 1>this tennis story, and people were like, this is how

0:31:21.742 --> 0:31:25.622
<v Speaker 1>I feel on planes. And I wonder if there's a

0:31:25.702 --> 0:31:31.021
<v Speaker 1>distinction to be made between spaces where children kind of

0:31:31.102 --> 0:31:33.421
<v Speaker 1>have to be if they're going to be living their lives,

0:31:33.502 --> 0:31:37.182
<v Speaker 1>and that includes going to airports and you know, supermarkets

0:31:37.222 --> 0:31:39.622
<v Speaker 1>other places where you have to go. And I do

0:31:39.661 --> 0:31:42.262
<v Speaker 1>think there's an argument to be made that maybe children

0:31:42.782 --> 0:31:47.742
<v Speaker 1>shouldn't be in more optional spaces like a tennis match.

0:31:47.822 --> 0:31:52.302
<v Speaker 3>I wonder though, if they're allowed, if the venue is

0:31:52.382 --> 0:31:55.181
<v Speaker 3>open to them being there, then like I've gone to

0:31:55.622 --> 0:31:58.422
<v Speaker 3>comedy shows or theater things, and there's a certain age

0:31:58.622 --> 0:32:02.181
<v Speaker 3>bracket of when you can go. But look, would I

0:32:02.422 --> 0:32:04.302
<v Speaker 3>take Lunar at that. I think that she would find

0:32:04.342 --> 0:32:06.302
<v Speaker 3>it really boring. Apparently it was really really hot. It's

0:32:06.382 --> 0:32:07.262
<v Speaker 3>very long thing.

0:32:07.542 --> 0:32:09.941
<v Speaker 1>I hate the idea of setting kids up to fail.

0:32:10.542 --> 0:32:13.501
<v Speaker 1>And part of the reason why I prefer not to

0:32:13.542 --> 0:32:16.382
<v Speaker 1>take my children to restaurants, even though I know lots

0:32:16.422 --> 0:32:18.502
<v Speaker 1>of people who think it's a very important life skill

0:32:18.622 --> 0:32:21.542
<v Speaker 1>for children to acquire, is because I just think it's

0:32:21.542 --> 0:32:23.582
<v Speaker 1>setting them up to fail. You're taking them to a

0:32:23.582 --> 0:32:25.422
<v Speaker 1>place where, as you said, at the tennis they can't

0:32:25.422 --> 0:32:28.062
<v Speaker 1>even move like that. Don't take children to a place

0:32:28.062 --> 0:32:30.181
<v Speaker 1>where they can't move. At a restaurant, they're forced to

0:32:30.182 --> 0:32:33.582
<v Speaker 1>sit down and order off a menu of things that

0:32:33.622 --> 0:32:37.462
<v Speaker 1>probably doesn't include mac and cheese, and you know, speak

0:32:37.542 --> 0:32:39.461
<v Speaker 1>in an indoor voice and all these things which I

0:32:39.462 --> 0:32:41.422
<v Speaker 1>guess children should be learning how to do, but which

0:32:41.422 --> 0:32:43.382
<v Speaker 1>they're not always equipped to do at the end of

0:32:43.382 --> 0:32:43.902
<v Speaker 1>a long day.

0:32:43.942 --> 0:32:47.742
<v Speaker 2>But what do you call a restaurant? Right? Because I

0:32:47.822 --> 0:32:50.941
<v Speaker 2>sympathize with you if I'm paying lots of money to

0:32:50.982 --> 0:32:53.382
<v Speaker 2>sit in a rarefied room, you know what I mean,

0:32:53.502 --> 0:32:59.942
<v Speaker 2>like some kind of fancy, very adulty space. But increasingly cafes, restaurants,

0:33:00.022 --> 0:33:02.941
<v Speaker 2>pubs with beer gardens, all those kind of things cater

0:33:03.062 --> 0:33:05.302
<v Speaker 2>to kits like they do, so surely that's fine.

0:33:05.382 --> 0:33:07.941
<v Speaker 1>Well, that's actually a really interesting question around pubs because

0:33:07.942 --> 0:33:11.302
<v Speaker 1>that's a very much live issue in Australia right now.

0:33:11.422 --> 0:33:14.622
<v Speaker 1>And what I didn't realize is how recent a phenomenon

0:33:14.661 --> 0:33:16.262
<v Speaker 1>it is to take children to pubs. Do you know

0:33:16.302 --> 0:33:18.942
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't until two thousand and seven that New South

0:33:18.942 --> 0:33:22.182
<v Speaker 1>Wales made it technically legal to take children.

0:33:21.902 --> 0:33:24.102
<v Speaker 3>Into really, because there used to be a thing I

0:33:24.142 --> 0:33:26.142
<v Speaker 3>remember when I was growing up, when I was a kid,

0:33:26.502 --> 0:33:29.382
<v Speaker 3>if we were ever at a pub, then it was

0:33:29.422 --> 0:33:30.862
<v Speaker 3>like there was an area you couldn't cross.

0:33:31.062 --> 0:33:35.221
<v Speaker 2>Do you remember that? And also children can't go near

0:33:35.262 --> 0:33:35.502
<v Speaker 2>the bar.

0:33:35.702 --> 0:33:38.742
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yes, But a lot of pub owners are sort

0:33:38.782 --> 0:33:41.782
<v Speaker 1>of saying that they've gone too far in making them

0:33:41.782 --> 0:33:45.742
<v Speaker 1>to children friendly to family friendly, because when adults drink,

0:33:45.902 --> 0:33:48.782
<v Speaker 1>they don't become responsible parents and their kids are running

0:33:48.822 --> 0:33:51.942
<v Speaker 1>around this space that really was designed for adults, and

0:33:51.982 --> 0:33:54.261
<v Speaker 1>the parents are taking their eyes off the ball, so

0:33:54.302 --> 0:33:57.742
<v Speaker 1>to speak. And I was curious about whether we think

0:33:57.782 --> 0:34:00.262
<v Speaker 1>it's a good idea in terms of what we're teaching

0:34:00.382 --> 0:34:03.742
<v Speaker 1>children about. Look, I have to be honest, every Monday

0:34:03.822 --> 0:34:06.862
<v Speaker 1>night in my neighborhood the pub has kids eat free

0:34:07.542 --> 0:34:10.261
<v Speaker 1>and it is a huge social scene and I go

0:34:10.302 --> 0:34:14.342
<v Speaker 1>there every Monday. This is very much me interrogating my

0:34:14.422 --> 0:34:16.741
<v Speaker 1>own patterns here. But it turns out that there is

0:34:16.782 --> 0:34:19.622
<v Speaker 1>this new study from Australian researchers that makes the claim

0:34:19.661 --> 0:34:22.261
<v Speaker 1>that the more time kids spend at pubs I want

0:34:22.261 --> 0:34:24.341
<v Speaker 1>to get the wording here exactly right, the higher the

0:34:24.422 --> 0:34:27.102
<v Speaker 1>risks they face from alcohol in the future. And that's

0:34:27.181 --> 0:34:30.661
<v Speaker 1>essentially because one it's glorified advertising for alcohol. You see

0:34:30.661 --> 0:34:32.582
<v Speaker 1>your parents out at the pub, they're having fun. You

0:34:32.622 --> 0:34:35.661
<v Speaker 1>think alcohol's fun. And two it sends a longer term

0:34:35.661 --> 0:34:39.062
<v Speaker 1>message that it norms alcohol and the use of alcohol.

0:34:39.142 --> 0:34:42.221
<v Speaker 1>It says that when adults get together, they drink. And

0:34:42.261 --> 0:34:44.862
<v Speaker 1>when I read that, I felt sad about my Monday evenings.

0:34:45.062 --> 0:34:48.861
<v Speaker 2>Oh no, I'm here to defend your Monday evenings with

0:34:48.982 --> 0:34:54.781
<v Speaker 2>my life because I accept all that. But the thing is,

0:34:54.822 --> 0:34:57.301
<v Speaker 2>and this certainly isn't true for everybody. Like Australia is

0:34:57.342 --> 0:34:59.622
<v Speaker 2>a very multicultural society, and there are lots of sections

0:34:59.661 --> 0:35:02.781
<v Speaker 2>of Australia where alcohol is not a part of all socializing,

0:35:03.221 --> 0:35:07.342
<v Speaker 2>but there is in the mainstream norm alcohol is legal.

0:35:07.382 --> 0:35:10.022
<v Speaker 2>When you're over eighteen, you're allowed to drink. Response. We

0:35:10.062 --> 0:35:12.342
<v Speaker 2>have some very strict rules that govern around that and

0:35:12.342 --> 0:35:14.182
<v Speaker 2>who can be served in pubs and all those things

0:35:14.221 --> 0:35:16.942
<v Speaker 2>stricter than in some other places in the world. So

0:35:17.261 --> 0:35:21.821
<v Speaker 2>there's also an argument that children seeing parents drink responsibly

0:35:21.902 --> 0:35:24.502
<v Speaker 2>is not the end of the world. Right. So for myself,

0:35:24.622 --> 0:35:26.661
<v Speaker 2>if I know when it's particularly when I lived in

0:35:26.701 --> 0:35:28.422
<v Speaker 2>the city, I don't live in the city anymore. But

0:35:28.462 --> 0:35:30.502
<v Speaker 2>for all the time that my kids were young, I

0:35:30.542 --> 0:35:33.502
<v Speaker 2>lived in an area of the town where me and

0:35:33.622 --> 0:35:36.302
<v Speaker 2>all my friends lived in small units that didn't have gardens,

0:35:36.342 --> 0:35:39.301
<v Speaker 2>that didn't have We couldn't have each other around, you

0:35:39.382 --> 0:35:41.261
<v Speaker 2>know what I mean. That isn't what happened, And that's

0:35:41.261 --> 0:35:43.502
<v Speaker 2>not even an of course not there was not a dinta.

0:35:43.542 --> 0:35:45.702
<v Speaker 2>It's not any of that stuff. So we would meet

0:35:45.781 --> 0:35:47.942
<v Speaker 2>in public spaces, and we met in parks, and we

0:35:47.942 --> 0:35:50.222
<v Speaker 2>met in cafes, and we met in pubs, no question.

0:35:50.781 --> 0:35:53.142
<v Speaker 2>And sometimes now I cringe a little bit at some

0:35:53.221 --> 0:35:55.582
<v Speaker 2>of the places I took my kids to. But I

0:35:55.622 --> 0:35:58.221
<v Speaker 2>had no family support, I had no you know, official

0:35:58.342 --> 0:36:02.181
<v Speaker 2>baby cities, like we were our community, and the kids

0:36:02.221 --> 0:36:05.822
<v Speaker 2>went where we went, right And I went to bowling

0:36:05.862 --> 0:36:07.861
<v Speaker 2>clubs where the kids would run a mark like they

0:36:07.942 --> 0:36:10.821
<v Speaker 2>really would and they'd have a great time. And we

0:36:10.862 --> 0:36:13.662
<v Speaker 2>went to beer guns were set up for that, pubs

0:36:13.661 --> 0:36:16.262
<v Speaker 2>that had playgrounds, all of those things. And in England,

0:36:16.261 --> 0:36:19.502
<v Speaker 2>which obviously is where I grew up, although that wasn't

0:36:19.542 --> 0:36:22.021
<v Speaker 2>necessarily the norm when I was a kid, but they're now,

0:36:22.221 --> 0:36:25.142
<v Speaker 2>like lots of pubs have big play areas and it's

0:36:25.261 --> 0:36:28.342
<v Speaker 2>very much encouraged. And the reason for that is because

0:36:28.342 --> 0:36:31.502
<v Speaker 2>the publicans are making money. It's because of food. You

0:36:31.542 --> 0:36:34.781
<v Speaker 2>introduce food into an establishment like that. Pubs once upon

0:36:34.822 --> 0:36:37.062
<v Speaker 2>a time are just the preserve of men, working class

0:36:37.062 --> 0:36:40.301
<v Speaker 2>men broadly speaking, and women bust their way into those

0:36:40.781 --> 0:36:42.902
<v Speaker 2>front bars and snugs over a while and said I

0:36:42.942 --> 0:36:45.262
<v Speaker 2>want to be and then they bought their bloody kids.

0:36:46.181 --> 0:36:48.742
<v Speaker 2>And I think in a way I would never argue

0:36:48.942 --> 0:36:50.942
<v Speaker 2>for oh, I think it's great for kids to see

0:36:51.102 --> 0:36:54.381
<v Speaker 2>their parents drinking. I am very aware of how problematic

0:36:54.902 --> 0:36:59.582
<v Speaker 2>our over acceptance of alcohol is in social situations. But

0:36:59.701 --> 0:37:01.902
<v Speaker 2>I think, as you said at the beginning, Jesse, the

0:37:01.942 --> 0:37:05.622
<v Speaker 2>more places where children aren't welcome, the more isolated parents are.

0:37:05.942 --> 0:37:08.062
<v Speaker 2>I would say it's even different now where I live

0:37:08.422 --> 0:37:10.901
<v Speaker 2>in a regional area and much more suburban environment. There

0:37:10.902 --> 0:37:13.582
<v Speaker 2>are more options for how you get together with people.

0:37:13.942 --> 0:37:16.942
<v Speaker 2>There's more space. There are also clubs, which places that

0:37:16.982 --> 0:37:18.861
<v Speaker 2>often you never go to until you have kids, and

0:37:18.902 --> 0:37:21.142
<v Speaker 2>you go there because they're very often open to kids, right,

0:37:21.181 --> 0:37:23.342
<v Speaker 2>And they'll have a green space and they'll have a

0:37:23.382 --> 0:37:25.622
<v Speaker 2>green space and they've designed it that way because they

0:37:25.661 --> 0:37:27.781
<v Speaker 2>want you to spend your money there. And at least

0:37:27.781 --> 0:37:29.942
<v Speaker 2>it's a communal place where people are getting together. So

0:37:30.542 --> 0:37:33.422
<v Speaker 2>the more places kids can't come, the more isolated I am.

0:37:33.462 --> 0:37:35.582
<v Speaker 2>I would have been at home alone.

0:37:35.822 --> 0:37:39.142
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And it's sometimes the only option where you don't

0:37:39.142 --> 0:37:41.181
<v Speaker 3>have to cook and clean, and that's the kind of

0:37:41.261 --> 0:37:43.701
<v Speaker 3>relief for a you know, mum or dad. But I

0:37:43.741 --> 0:37:46.942
<v Speaker 3>also find the cultural difference as a point of tension

0:37:46.982 --> 0:37:49.661
<v Speaker 3>because I know people who have gone overseas and expected

0:37:49.701 --> 0:37:51.821
<v Speaker 3>that they can bring their child to a restaurant and

0:37:51.862 --> 0:37:54.102
<v Speaker 3>you go, oh, that's not how they do it here. Like,

0:37:54.142 --> 0:37:57.301
<v Speaker 3>it's very dependent on different places. We're talking to someone

0:37:57.302 --> 0:38:00.542
<v Speaker 3>at work who lived in Sweden and you simply wouldn't

0:38:00.582 --> 0:38:01.702
<v Speaker 3>you wouldn't take your kids.

0:38:01.862 --> 0:38:04.022
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, But then when I was in Italy, anyone will

0:38:04.062 --> 0:38:05.861
<v Speaker 2>tell you it is in Italy kids will run around

0:38:05.862 --> 0:38:07.582
<v Speaker 2>to eleven o'clock at night. No one bats an island

0:38:08.022 --> 0:38:11.261
<v Speaker 2>like not in a form dining setting. Again, like to

0:38:11.382 --> 0:38:13.422
<v Speaker 2>the common sense point you were saying about the tennis,

0:38:13.822 --> 0:38:16.701
<v Speaker 2>I think there's a formal dining setting where it would

0:38:16.701 --> 0:38:19.221
<v Speaker 2>be irritating to have a kid there. Although if that

0:38:19.302 --> 0:38:21.462
<v Speaker 2>kid is quiet and on a screen, if I'm irritated

0:38:21.462 --> 0:38:23.542
<v Speaker 2>by that, that's just about my judgment. It's not about

0:38:23.582 --> 0:38:27.142
<v Speaker 2>my actual experience, and I should examine that myself. But

0:38:27.221 --> 0:38:29.661
<v Speaker 2>you know that in lots of sudden Europe, kids are

0:38:29.701 --> 0:38:32.462
<v Speaker 2>part of every interaction and nobody gets upset about it.

0:38:32.822 --> 0:38:35.781
<v Speaker 1>What I'm interested in is why you think people are

0:38:35.781 --> 0:38:39.062
<v Speaker 1>getting more upset about it these days as well? What's

0:38:39.102 --> 0:38:43.622
<v Speaker 1>that about? Because Claire Stevens wrote a fantastic substack about

0:38:43.781 --> 0:38:46.302
<v Speaker 1>an experience she had recently along these lines.

0:38:46.422 --> 0:38:48.622
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, on a plane, And I just think a plane

0:38:48.701 --> 0:38:51.462
<v Speaker 3>is the fin It's the most ridiculous place for someone

0:38:51.502 --> 0:38:53.861
<v Speaker 3>to get mad about you being with your toddler because

0:38:53.862 --> 0:38:55.781
<v Speaker 3>you're like, by the way, I don't want to be

0:38:55.822 --> 0:38:59.341
<v Speaker 3>spending time with this toddler on a steel box in

0:38:59.382 --> 0:39:02.341
<v Speaker 3>the air either. I'm not enjoying this. And again it's

0:39:02.342 --> 0:39:05.261
<v Speaker 3>somewhere where it's like we have no other choice. But

0:39:05.342 --> 0:39:08.462
<v Speaker 3>I wonder. We talked last week about declining birthrate, and

0:39:08.701 --> 0:39:12.622
<v Speaker 3>I wonder if that does cause an increasing hostility.

0:39:12.142 --> 0:39:14.062
<v Speaker 1>If people just see fewer kids around.

0:39:14.142 --> 0:39:17.341
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, the less it happens, the more you kind of go, oh, well,

0:39:17.382 --> 0:39:19.701
<v Speaker 3>we don't expect children in this space, and maybe we

0:39:20.342 --> 0:39:23.902
<v Speaker 3>build less spaces that cater to them in that way,

0:39:24.022 --> 0:39:27.142
<v Speaker 3>I think that you get the aggressional the irritability of

0:39:28.181 --> 0:39:31.022
<v Speaker 3>people who maybe have never experienced that before.

0:39:31.542 --> 0:39:34.221
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And it's a fine line, isn't it, Because you know,

0:39:34.422 --> 0:39:36.782
<v Speaker 1>it seemed like before I was saying that you shouldn't

0:39:36.822 --> 0:39:39.661
<v Speaker 1>take kids to sort of optional public spaces. But hole,

0:39:39.741 --> 0:39:42.301
<v Speaker 1>you've made me reflect on the idea that when you

0:39:42.382 --> 0:39:44.902
<v Speaker 1>have children and you want them to be interesting and

0:39:45.022 --> 0:39:48.181
<v Speaker 1>interested people, you want to take them to different experiences

0:39:48.221 --> 0:39:50.902
<v Speaker 1>from an early age, which includes the tennis, it includes

0:39:50.902 --> 0:39:53.022
<v Speaker 1>a premiere if that's part of your life. You want

0:39:53.062 --> 0:39:57.221
<v Speaker 1>to expose them to diverse sets of circumstances. And there's

0:39:57.261 --> 0:39:59.542
<v Speaker 1>something a little bit sad about the idea of keeping

0:39:59.542 --> 0:40:02.302
<v Speaker 1>your kid cooped up at home where they can't upset

0:40:02.342 --> 0:40:05.182
<v Speaker 1>anybody until the age of eighteen, when they're suddenly allowed

0:40:05.221 --> 0:40:05.701
<v Speaker 1>every year.

0:40:05.902 --> 0:40:09.502
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And should we always be meeting kids in there

0:40:09.661 --> 0:40:12.861
<v Speaker 3>world or sometimes are they welcome into the adult world

0:40:12.862 --> 0:40:14.542
<v Speaker 3>as well? And is that good for them to see

0:40:14.542 --> 0:40:17.702
<v Speaker 3>their parents socializing and living their own lives.

0:40:17.942 --> 0:40:20.701
<v Speaker 2>I think about the planes. I've never met a parent

0:40:20.741 --> 0:40:22.981
<v Speaker 2>who's delighted about taking their small child on a plane.

0:40:22.982 --> 0:40:24.382
<v Speaker 2>But if they have to travel, for me to be

0:40:24.422 --> 0:40:27.222
<v Speaker 2>they're going to do it. The reason people are grumpier

0:40:27.261 --> 0:40:29.982
<v Speaker 2>and granpierre, and it's nearly always men who are grumpier

0:40:30.022 --> 0:40:32.781
<v Speaker 2>and gropier, is again, there were used to be many

0:40:32.822 --> 0:40:35.782
<v Speaker 2>fewer women in these kind of public spaces. And although

0:40:36.422 --> 0:40:39.782
<v Speaker 2>and although I'm always always the person who's saying parenting

0:40:39.822 --> 0:40:42.102
<v Speaker 2>isn't just for women, very often it's the mother who's

0:40:42.102 --> 0:40:44.062
<v Speaker 2>if she's traveling, the kid comes. If she's going out,

0:40:44.142 --> 0:40:47.142
<v Speaker 2>the kid comes very often, And it'll often be a

0:40:47.181 --> 0:40:49.741
<v Speaker 2>man in a business suit who thinks that planes are

0:40:49.741 --> 0:40:52.062
<v Speaker 2>a place that he's working, that he's.

0:40:51.982 --> 0:40:52.902
<v Speaker 3>Got to concentrate.

0:40:53.022 --> 0:40:55.342
<v Speaker 2>It's quiet, it's serious here, I should and I should

0:40:55.342 --> 0:40:56.982
<v Speaker 2>be able to get my shut eye and all those things,

0:40:57.142 --> 0:40:59.182
<v Speaker 2>and he doesn't think of it as a public space

0:40:59.221 --> 0:41:01.861
<v Speaker 2>when it is one. And surely the other one is

0:41:01.982 --> 0:41:06.462
<v Speaker 2>just our increasing discomfort with discomfort, right, because I've also

0:41:06.502 --> 0:41:09.822
<v Speaker 2>seen young women get very upset about mums and babies

0:41:09.862 --> 0:41:12.062
<v Speaker 2>on planes, or parents and babies on planes. And I

0:41:12.142 --> 0:41:15.341
<v Speaker 2>understand why they like to be able to control any

0:41:15.382 --> 0:41:18.342
<v Speaker 2>interaction in their life, because they can because of everything

0:41:18.382 --> 0:41:19.901
<v Speaker 2>we talk about all the time. You know the fact

0:41:19.942 --> 0:41:22.582
<v Speaker 2>that you can curate the opinions you have to hear,

0:41:22.582 --> 0:41:24.022
<v Speaker 2>you curate what you're going to eat, and who you're

0:41:24.022 --> 0:41:25.301
<v Speaker 2>going to see and who you're going to pick up

0:41:25.302 --> 0:41:28.622
<v Speaker 2>the phone to. And in a plane, everybody's lives are

0:41:28.661 --> 0:41:32.142
<v Speaker 2>like on you know, whether it's the guy who's snoring

0:41:32.261 --> 0:41:34.702
<v Speaker 2>or the baby who's crying, or the person with a cough,

0:41:34.822 --> 0:41:37.102
<v Speaker 2>or you know, the person who insists on not putting

0:41:37.102 --> 0:41:38.142
<v Speaker 2>their headphones in or whatever.

0:41:38.181 --> 0:41:41.062
<v Speaker 3>It is welcome to public space exactly.

0:41:40.622 --> 0:41:42.622
<v Speaker 2>And we're just less and less comfortable, I think with

0:41:42.661 --> 0:41:45.941
<v Speaker 2>public spaces. In another chapter of Mothers Can Never Win

0:41:46.181 --> 0:41:49.062
<v Speaker 2>is Sophie Turner, you know, the actress former Games Thrones actress,

0:41:49.142 --> 0:41:53.302
<v Speaker 2>very famously divorced from a Jonas. She was recently posting

0:41:53.302 --> 0:41:55.542
<v Speaker 2>pictures of herself at the one of the Oasis concerts

0:41:55.542 --> 0:41:57.661
<v Speaker 2>at Wembley and she looks like she's having a great

0:41:57.701 --> 0:41:59.942
<v Speaker 2>time and all the comments are like, wry are kill men?

0:42:00.022 --> 0:42:02.661
<v Speaker 2>Carry you kill it? And so she clapped back and said, oh,

0:42:02.781 --> 0:42:05.062
<v Speaker 2>have you ever heard of this thing called shared custody?

0:42:05.261 --> 0:42:07.622
<v Speaker 2>Maybe the kids were with their dad that day, and

0:42:07.661 --> 0:42:10.422
<v Speaker 2>I just was like, so if you don't take your kids,

0:42:10.502 --> 0:42:13.302
<v Speaker 2>you're going to get criticized. If you do take your kids,

0:42:13.302 --> 0:42:15.502
<v Speaker 2>you're a bad mother, like there is no winning in

0:42:15.542 --> 0:42:16.142
<v Speaker 2>this situation.

0:42:17.022 --> 0:42:19.542
<v Speaker 3>I have some feedback. There's been a lot of hate

0:42:19.902 --> 0:42:25.302
<v Speaker 3>thrown around lately, and I feel incredibly defensive. The Internet

0:42:25.382 --> 0:42:30.462
<v Speaker 3>has inexplicably turned on what has been labeled stump clap

0:42:30.502 --> 0:42:34.181
<v Speaker 3>hay music, which feels incredibly disrespectful to the early two

0:42:34.181 --> 0:42:36.181
<v Speaker 3>thousand one post.

0:42:35.902 --> 0:42:39.181
<v Speaker 2>On poor millennials. Everyone's coming for you, coming for.

0:42:39.221 --> 0:42:43.542
<v Speaker 3>All about things. A post on X reads this whole

0:42:43.582 --> 0:42:46.982
<v Speaker 3>generation of stomp clap ho hay indie folk was terrible,

0:42:47.342 --> 0:42:49.822
<v Speaker 3>And to refresh your memory, if you're going I don't

0:42:49.942 --> 0:43:15.661
<v Speaker 3>recall this genre, well here's a little taste.

0:43:08.102 --> 0:43:23.742
<v Speaker 4>Because we will never around us.

0:43:23.982 --> 0:43:27.222
<v Speaker 1>I was immediately transported to a barn in a field,

0:43:27.302 --> 0:43:29.741
<v Speaker 1>drinking a cocktail with a sprig of rosemary and a

0:43:29.781 --> 0:43:30.301
<v Speaker 1>mason er.

0:43:30.622 --> 0:43:33.102
<v Speaker 3>It was a simpler time, Amelia. It was such a

0:43:33.142 --> 0:43:36.781
<v Speaker 3>lovely time. So think Mumford and Sons of monsters and

0:43:36.822 --> 0:43:41.462
<v Speaker 3>men the luminius. Think man in a waistcoat, another has

0:43:41.502 --> 0:43:44.221
<v Speaker 3>an indie hat. Maybe throw some suspenders in there. Maybe

0:43:44.221 --> 0:43:46.261
<v Speaker 3>the man with the hat had suspenders. He's also got

0:43:46.302 --> 0:43:49.462
<v Speaker 3>a basoon and a beard and a mustache. So much,

0:43:49.502 --> 0:43:52.902
<v Speaker 3>but very unkept This was the moment where millennial Hipsterdam

0:43:52.982 --> 0:43:55.622
<v Speaker 3>hit its peak. And you see, those were the days

0:43:56.342 --> 0:43:58.341
<v Speaker 3>days and they took our skinny jeans, and they took

0:43:58.382 --> 0:44:00.941
<v Speaker 3>our socks, and they took our parts and just leave

0:44:00.982 --> 0:44:04.182
<v Speaker 3>our Stom Club hay Home music alone because it wasn't anyone.

0:44:04.502 --> 0:44:07.661
<v Speaker 2>Have anything to do. Also with Anna Kendrick and the Cups, remember,

0:44:07.701 --> 0:44:13.902
<v Speaker 2>and then that was fine.

0:44:14.221 --> 0:44:17.182
<v Speaker 1>I feel like Zoey Deschanal's all over this moment.

0:44:17.502 --> 0:44:20.502
<v Speaker 3>God, it was such a lovely time, and I just

0:44:20.502 --> 0:44:23.022
<v Speaker 3>feel the Genz's just keep going back and just like

0:44:23.822 --> 0:44:26.102
<v Speaker 3>raining on our parade. But I have such nostalgia for

0:44:26.142 --> 0:44:27.582
<v Speaker 3>that moment and I think it should come back.

0:44:28.102 --> 0:44:30.381
<v Speaker 2>A massive thank you to all the outlauders who've been

0:44:30.382 --> 0:44:32.502
<v Speaker 2>here with us. It's been a roller coaster today. Oh

0:44:32.822 --> 0:44:37.181
<v Speaker 2>goodness me listening to our show and to of course

0:44:37.221 --> 0:44:39.261
<v Speaker 2>our fabulous team for helping us put it together. We're

0:44:39.261 --> 0:44:41.022
<v Speaker 2>going to be back in your ears tomorrow and.

0:44:40.982 --> 0:44:43.461
<v Speaker 3>If you're looking for something else to listen to, well,

0:44:43.701 --> 0:44:48.062
<v Speaker 3>we did a deep dive on Holly's latest rabbit hole

0:44:48.062 --> 0:44:50.461
<v Speaker 3>that she's fallen down, which is there are more wild

0:44:50.502 --> 0:44:53.941
<v Speaker 3>allegations about Prince Andrew. We spoke last week about the

0:44:54.221 --> 0:44:57.182
<v Speaker 3>new book entitled that has come out and it turns

0:44:57.181 --> 0:45:00.102
<v Speaker 3>out there was so much more to it. So Holly

0:45:00.302 --> 0:45:02.701
<v Speaker 3>got behind the mic with M and I and explained

0:45:02.781 --> 0:45:06.462
<v Speaker 3>to us everything that's come out, what the impact will be,

0:45:06.542 --> 0:45:10.102
<v Speaker 3>what we think Charles might do. Look, it's very very interesting.

0:45:10.382 --> 0:45:12.702
<v Speaker 3>A link is always will be in our show notes.

0:45:13.221 --> 0:45:15.781
<v Speaker 3>If you want a free subscription to Mama Maya, then

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<v Speaker 3>listen up. Mama Mia is cooking up something very exciting

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<v Speaker 3>and we need your brilliant opinions to help us make

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<v Speaker 3>even better content. And if there is something the outluders have,

0:45:24.142 --> 0:45:24.822
<v Speaker 3>it is opinions.

0:45:25.102 --> 0:45:27.701
<v Speaker 2>Really good opinions too. Will take just twenty minutes of

0:45:27.701 --> 0:45:30.022
<v Speaker 2>your time to fill in this survey and in return

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<v Speaker 2>and also a ten dollar E gift card. Little it

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<v Speaker 2>comes in handy little treat.

0:45:37.502 --> 0:45:40.181
<v Speaker 3>If you are already a subscriber, we love you, then

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<v Speaker 3>what a perfect little treat it is to give to

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<v Speaker 3>your mum or a friend who's always asking what podcast

0:45:44.822 --> 0:45:47.821
<v Speaker 3>to listen to next. If you're interested, check out the

0:45:47.862 --> 0:45:48.982
<v Speaker 3>link in our show notes.

0:45:49.302 --> 0:45:54.942
<v Speaker 2>Ay shout out to Anymma Miya subscribers listening If you

0:45:55.102 --> 0:45:57.982
<v Speaker 2>love the show and you want to support us, subscribing

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<v Speaker 2>to Mamma Mia is the very best way to do it.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a link in the episode description