Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to
Speaker 2: MoMA Mia out Loud. It's what women are actually talking
Speaker 2: about on Wednesday, the thirteenth of August. I'm Holly Wainwright,
Speaker 2: I'm Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 1: And I'm Amelia Lester.
Speaker 2: And here's what's made our agenda for today. Pobs restaurants
Speaker 2: and the tennis One female player's reaction to a noisy
Speaker 2: child has reignited a debate about where kids are welcome,
Speaker 2: and we do not agree.
Speaker 1: There's a lot happening in the world this week, and
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you the talking points you need
Speaker 1: in under five minutes.
Speaker 3: And why the MoMA Mea office went into a frenzy
Speaker 3: over Taylor swift yesterday. We are gonna unpack the pr
Speaker 3: of it all because some Swifties are saying it was
Speaker 3: a bit clumsy.
Speaker 1: So there is a theory.
Speaker 3: Yep, there's a theory.
Speaker 2: An orange. You're gonna explain to me orange good? Okay, good?
Speaker 2: Please excuse me while I press refresh on my pre
Speaker 2: order for Pammy's Pickles. Okay, yes, I'm talking about my
Speaker 2: gardening buddy and my no makeup icon, Pamela Anderson and
Speaker 2: her new pickle line. This week, she announced that she
Speaker 2: has made some pickles. If anyone doesn't know what pickles are, cucumbers, vinegar,
Speaker 2: that's pretty much it right. She's made a new line
Speaker 2: of pickles. All the money's going to charity. They are
Speaker 2: fifty eight dollars a jar Australian.
Speaker 3: I like pickles. I love pickles, not fifty eight dollars.
Speaker 2: But they've also got rose petals in them, which is
Speaker 2: a little concerning, but a bit Megan. Pamela's pickling news
Speaker 2: tickled me no end because I love me a celebrity
Speaker 2: condiment and I like to see some new entries to
Speaker 2: the marketplace. So Brooklyn Beckham's cloud twenty nine hot Sauce.
Speaker 2: I love hot sauce like I've got twenty five different
Speaker 2: hot sauces in my Fridgrookies. Yet no, I'm trying. I
Speaker 2: would like it. It's fifty three dollars a bottle has a
Speaker 2: hot sauce. It's called tingly ted Chili sauce. It's a
Speaker 2: very reasonable twelve dollars.
Speaker 3: Did you know that one of the FAQ's on the
Speaker 3: website is ed Sharon Whitey have a hot sauce, and
Speaker 3: he's like, I really like hot sauce. That's the whole
Speaker 3: reason I should have a hot sauce. Yes, you could
Speaker 3: have a hot sauce.
Speaker 2: Holly's Hot sauce. Glenn Powell Smashed Kitchen has an eye
Speaker 2: out for your wallet. He's got ketchup mustards, barbecue sauce,
Speaker 2: and mayonnaise and they're all only about five dollars a piece.
Speaker 2: Swoon Megan's jam of course, sorry preserve good luck getting
Speaker 2: your hands on that. And John bon Jovi has a
Speaker 2: pasta sauce And question why celebrity condiments? And also, as
Speaker 2: much as I love condiments, do they taste better if
Speaker 2: a hot person makes them?
Speaker 3: Yeah, they absolutely do. So there's a few reasons.
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 3: The first is I feel like you can own unlimited condiments,
Speaker 3: and that we all feel like we might be one
Speaker 3: condiment from yummy. Right, So it's like ben products, I'm
Speaker 3: one product from.
Speaker 2: Beautiful, I'm one lipstick away, yeah from exactly, yeah exactly.
Speaker 3: And that's that's the thing where one condiment from going
Speaker 3: And it's kind of the lipstick effect in that you
Speaker 3: may not be able to afford all of the fancy
Speaker 3: foods at the moment, but you will get that condiment
Speaker 3: that you know isn't one meal, but you use it
Speaker 3: over many. And that's why they say condiments are recession proof.
Speaker 3: So they's something that if you invest in as a
Speaker 3: celebrity or you put your face to it, then it's
Speaker 3: a good economic move. And apparently I didn't know this
Speaker 3: condiment talk big deal. Oh, condiments are very big on TikTok,
Speaker 3: so all the slubs are jumping on.
Speaker 1: I've got a bit of a Megan angle on this,
Speaker 1: which is that Pame is doing this for Fu Mngo Estate,
Speaker 1: which is a Los Angeles based kind of farm goods
Speaker 1: beauty products line. It's actually sold in Mecca here and
Speaker 1: many people say that Megan's as ever is modeled on
Speaker 1: Flamingo Estate. Now what is interesting is one I have
Speaker 1: been to Flamingo Estate. I once did a story where
Speaker 1: I went there, and it's the most beautiful farm in
Speaker 1: southern California and it literally looks like the Garden of Eden.
Speaker 1: And I just imagine Pame with her hair up in
Speaker 1: the iconic claw clip bun. Yeah, because that's also hygienic
Speaker 1: when you're making condiments to get the hair out of
Speaker 1: the way, just sort of pickling her cauliflower and her
Speaker 1: cucumbers in this beautiful garden.
Speaker 2: This is my dream. You are describing my dree light.
Speaker 2: She wears white while she's in the garden at all times. Also, Pami,
Speaker 2: which is very very very like unpractical, impractice impractical.
Speaker 1: And did you follow the fact that when she was
Speaker 1: first asked about Megan and Megan's cooking products Empire, she
Speaker 1: was very dismissive of it, But then when she was
Speaker 1: asked about it recently, she said there's plenty of room
Speaker 1: for celebrity cooking shows and that she didn't invent them.
Speaker 1: So there's a way in which Pammy and Meg's are
Speaker 1: kind of evolving on parallel tracks.
Speaker 2: Heah, that's so interesting.
Speaker 3: I also reckon that there's nothing controversial about a condiment
Speaker 3: like it feels like a very safe, low barrier to
Speaker 3: entry space to enter into. There's a few other things
Speaker 3: that would probably be harder.
Speaker 1: I have a question. Does Liam Neeson like Pam's pickles.
Speaker 2: I'm sure he does, so.
Speaker 1: I wanted to show you something. Okay, what do we got?
Speaker 2: We got ah brief curse.
Speaker 4: Yep, Mick Greens, Yep.
Speaker 3: This is my brand new album, The Life of a Showgirl.
Speaker 2: I like grown men losing their shit.
Speaker 3: No, that sounds like the office twenty four hours ago
Speaker 3: is exactly the sound that was ringing through the Mummere office.
Speaker 3: There's a tweet that we republished on our Instagram yesterday
Speaker 3: morning that read it's a big day for annoying people
Speaker 3: and then in brackets it said me And on Tuesday,
Speaker 3: if you were in a workplace, you may have noticed
Speaker 3: a considerable drop in productivity around twelve minutes past two
Speaker 3: Sydney time. Perhaps there were people gathering at desks. It
Speaker 3: sounded exactly like that. There were groans, there were screams,
Speaker 3: there were sqheels, something something ts twelve New Heights, Showgirl,
Speaker 3: Mint Green a podcast clip. Friends. I don't understand much,
Speaker 3: but what I do know is that Taylor Allison Swift
Speaker 3: Friend of the Pod, has a new album and it
Speaker 3: is called.
Speaker 2: Friend of the She listens finitely listen.
Speaker 3: No, I have beef because she did not decide to
Speaker 3: come on here to announce this album. It is called
Speaker 3: the Life of a show Girl. We also know that
Speaker 3: tomorrow we will be able to listen to the first
Speaker 3: podcast interview Taylor is done in years and the interviewers
Speaker 3: will be her boyfriend Travis Kelce and his brother Jason.
Speaker 3: If you are not a swiftye if you don't know
Speaker 3: that Taylor's favorite number is thirteen something minus one equals twelve,
Speaker 3: I don't know. And you're not into decoding puzzles that
Speaker 3: include something about a glitter emoji, then don't panic. We're
Speaker 3: not here to delve into every single little detail. But
Speaker 3: what we do want to do is look at this
Speaker 3: PR strategy because some of it, by Taylor's standards, felt
Speaker 3: a bit rushed, and the decision to sit down with
Speaker 3: Travis rather than say Alex Cooper on call her daddy,
Speaker 3: some people have feelings about it. Now I want to
Speaker 3: take a few steps back, Amelia. This is one of
Speaker 3: your areas of expertise. We know you went to Harvard.
Speaker 3: This was one of the courses. Speak to me about
Speaker 3: the leak theory.
Speaker 1: Here's how things happened yesterday, how I experienced them Australian
Speaker 1: Eastern Standard time. Yesterday morning, was walking around a supermarket
Speaker 1: and my phone started blowing up with images on x
Speaker 1: and on Reddit of what looked like photos from Taylor
Speaker 1: Swift's new album. There was a photo of her in
Speaker 1: a very dramatic black bob. There was also a photo
Speaker 1: of her in sort of Vegas showgirl garb, and there
Speaker 1: was also a list of tracks, and people were speculating
Speaker 1: that this was the album that there's been chatter about
Speaker 1: for a while, because when.
Speaker 2: I put my hand up and asked a question, wasn't
Speaker 2: the last album just like five minutes ago the tortured poets,
Speaker 2: was that last year being.
Speaker 1: The second longest hiatus that she's.
Speaker 2: Sayless me and it's only been what ae longest a year?
Speaker 2: And their collie she just so see, I didn't know
Speaker 2: we were expecting a drop there was because I'm not
Speaker 2: a sniff.
Speaker 1: You weren't clowning. There were various clues that one was coming,
Speaker 1: which I won't bore you with. But these images got leaked,
Speaker 1: and then also some lyrics leaked on the lyrics website Genius,
Speaker 1: and then we all somehow went to tailorswift dot com.
Speaker 1: You know how these things happen on the Internet. Everyone
Speaker 1: suddenly on tailorswift dot com. It turned into a bright orange,
Speaker 1: glittery countdown to twelve twelve twelve Eastern times, so that's
Speaker 1: the time on the East coast of the US, which
Speaker 1: was two pm Australian Eastern. And then when the countdown ended,
Speaker 1: we were greeted with a shop with the pre sales
Speaker 1: for an album which, as you mentioned, Jesse is going
Speaker 1: to be called The Life of a Showgirl. And then
Speaker 1: as if that wasn't enough, then the New Heights clip dropped.
Speaker 1: New Heights is the podcast at Travis and Jason Kelcey
Speaker 1: host which they recently got one hundred million dollars for,
Speaker 1: and that's when she announced that she's going to be
Speaker 1: on the show tomorrow Thursday.
Speaker 2: Have another question, Do I have to buy the album?
Speaker 2: Don't I just get to listen to it for nothing?
Speaker 2: What do mean in pre order? What do you mean shop?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: People? Actually what am I talking?
Speaker 1: Apparently the Australian shop was literally impossible to get into
Speaker 1: and people kept being redirected to the American shop. That's
Speaker 1: how popular it was.
Speaker 2: Do you mean to buy a vinyl pre order.
Speaker 1: A vinyl copy? I want to talk a bit about
Speaker 1: why she chose to go on New Heights though.
Speaker 3: Yes, this is the part I am really interested in
Speaker 3: because I'm impressed. Okay, and your sentiment, Holly. It is
Speaker 3: reflected on the internet. There is a viral comment that says,
Speaker 3: Taylor Swift has led me to places I wouldn't even
Speaker 3: go with a gun listening to a podcast hosted by men.
Speaker 3: Commentator Hannah Ferguson wrote, yes, I will be the first listener.
Speaker 3: But imagine being one of the most successful women in
Speaker 3: the world and announcing your next huge career milestone on
Speaker 3: your boyfriend's sports podcast. Why do we think she decided
Speaker 3: to do that?
Speaker 2: Wain right, Well, Amelia, I can't tell you why, but
Speaker 2: I can tell you that I don't like it, but
Speaker 2: we'll get to that.
Speaker 1: I'm wrong. You were wrong. Taylor and Travis have become
Speaker 1: an iconic unit in themselves and just also overnight, as
Speaker 1: if there wasn't enough news, Travis came out on the
Speaker 1: cover of usgq's September issue, which is a really big deal,
Speaker 1: and he was styled in that by law Roach. She
Speaker 1: styles Zenday like. He has become a huge iconic figure
Speaker 1: in American pop culture as a result of his relationship
Speaker 1: with Taylor. In addition to his football career.
Speaker 3: He plays football apparently tight end.
Speaker 2: When he's not being Taylor Swift's boyfriends.
Speaker 1: I want to unpack why I think they're such a
Speaker 1: good couple together and why it therefore makes sense for
Speaker 1: her to announce this on his podcast. Let's run through
Speaker 1: a few things they have in common. Both have parents
Speaker 1: who separated in their early adulthood, and this is something
Speaker 1: that is a big canon event for Travis. He talks
Speaker 1: about it a lot in the GQ article. They were
Speaker 1: both in their early twenties when their parents divorced. They
Speaker 1: maintain close relationships with their parents, and their parents maintain
Speaker 1: close relationships with each other. Secondly, both very close to
Speaker 1: their brothers. Taylor's brother, Austin, is in charge of a
Speaker 1: music licensing business. Travis hosts this pod cast with his brother.
Speaker 1: Both talk a lot about having a really strong work ethic.
Speaker 1: They both love self promotion. They're both very unabashed about it,
Speaker 1: and we love that for them. And then, finally, not
Speaker 1: all of us do. Before the gen Exit talks about
Speaker 1: selling out. There's an anecdote in the GQ piece which
Speaker 1: I want to share because I think it really gets
Speaker 1: at what these two seemingly very different people actually seeing
Speaker 1: each other. Travis is at a restaurant with a singing waiter.
Speaker 1: I don't know why. It's one of those odd celebrity
Speaker 1: profile tropes where you go to a weird restaurant and
Speaker 1: the singing waiter comes over to the table and starts
Speaker 1: singing Lauren Hill's song X Factor. Now that sounds a
Speaker 1: little cringe inducing, a little mortifying, and the interviewer is
Speaker 1: very embarrassed, but he looks across at Travis, and Travis
Speaker 1: is sitting hands in lap, gazing up respectfully at this
Speaker 1: singing waiter and just listening until the end of the
Speaker 1: song and then thanking her for her service as she
Speaker 1: moves along to the next table. That reminded me of
Speaker 1: how the one thing we know about Taylor Allison Swift
Speaker 1: outside of the law is that she's extremely respectful to people,
Speaker 1: no matter their station. We've heard a lot about how
Speaker 1: she tips people enormous amounts over the holidays. Everyone fans
Speaker 1: says she's extremely gracious to them. I think that's what
Speaker 1: these two people have in common. They're people who market
Speaker 1: themselves as normal people, and they have the good manners
Speaker 1: and the behavior to kind of back up that demeanor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but all you've done there is tell me why
Speaker 2: they're a good match and that's fine, right, that's so fine.
Speaker 2: I'm so glad for them, very happy for them, very happy.
Speaker 2: We've all heard a lot about the less good matches
Speaker 2: that Taylor has dated, and I love those songs. In fact,
Speaker 2: I'm much more here for heartbreak song than a happy song.
Speaker 2: And I know this is my gen X coding that
Speaker 2: is deep within me, right that finds it a tiny
Speaker 2: bit icky that it's all so marketing like all the time.
Speaker 2: And I'm so sorry because I know swift Is will
Speaker 2: hate me so much for saying this, But I love
Speaker 2: Taylor Swift. I think she's a genius. But the thing
Speaker 2: about her that grates me is the intensely thought out
Speaker 2: everything at all times. I love that, the twelve eyes
Speaker 2: in this, the twelve pictures on the thing, the twelve,
Speaker 2: the twelve that and the fact that nothing is organic.
Speaker 2: I find that difficult. And I know it's my gen
Speaker 2: EX coding. It's like intrusive thoughts. I can't help it.
Speaker 2: I'm like, shut up, Holly, and I'm like, isn't it
Speaker 2: great that she's going out with a blokey bloke? And
Speaker 2: then I'm like, but DoD Jocks really need another win? No,
Speaker 2: I surely stop it, like I just can't with them,
Speaker 2: and so I know that they're lovely. But here's my
Speaker 2: thing that I find really interesting is sure they're very happy,
Speaker 2: and I'm sure they're going to go on to be
Speaker 2: very happy. But it's so interesting to do such as
Speaker 2: one ady from being a very private person in your
Speaker 2: love life, because even with all the song lyrics, she's
Speaker 2: always intensely private, like she when she went out with
Speaker 2: that what's his name, the one who's not very good
Speaker 2: actor Joe al Yes, like they went out of their
Speaker 2: way to barely be photographed together, like silhouettes of him
Speaker 2: would appear. And then so her and Travis are on stage,
Speaker 2: they're on each other's podcast, and I think that's wonderful
Speaker 2: because maybe he's really comfortable with her success. But isn't
Speaker 2: it a weird relationship? One eighty and then to go,
Speaker 2: I'm going to direct millions and millions of listeners to
Speaker 2: this show, Like it's.
Speaker 3: Just no, because we don't know if that was Taylor's choice, right,
Speaker 3: Like she did have boyfriends, yes, yes, yes, yes, if
Speaker 3: that was her choice when it came to Joe Urwiner
Speaker 3: or other relationships that she had, those relationships didn't work
Speaker 3: and she's landed with Travis.
Speaker 2: But they did work for a time, like you know, but.
Speaker 3: They ultimately ended. And Travis is the first partner of Taylor,
Speaker 3: who is a sort of an unashamed fanboy.
Speaker 1: I'm going to pull you up on that. Tom Hitdleston
Speaker 1: wore the iHeart t s tank.
Speaker 2: They were pat pictures, so it's different like paparazzi being
Speaker 2: caught out. Like you know, there are photographs of her
Speaker 2: with all these people, but most of them are pap
Speaker 2: Generally speaking, she has tried to keep it very on
Speaker 2: the download and I'm I'm all for evolution, So maybe
Speaker 2: she's very much like and look at that. That was
Speaker 2: bullshit and I think of all the wasted energy of
Speaker 2: not being out and proud and the two of us.
Speaker 2: But it's just I don't.
Speaker 3: Know, Okay, I have some pr theories that I have
Speaker 3: gleaned from the internet. Okay, So she is above doing
Speaker 3: the circuit, the podcast circuit.
Speaker 2: Oh obviously hasn't even given anything.
Speaker 1: That's what they wanted to ask, why this podcast a
Speaker 1: football podcast as opposed to call her daddy?
Speaker 3: Well, I reckon that it is about She can obviously
Speaker 3: do any podcast in the world. She would be most
Speaker 3: comfortable with Travis. She gets to be candid, but she
Speaker 3: also gets to have total control, whereas if she were
Speaker 3: on anyone else's platform, she probably wouldn't. Imagine how reluctant
Speaker 3: you would be after she has done sort of podcast
Speaker 3: interviews in the past, like five years ago or so.
Speaker 3: But we know she controls publicity around her so.
Speaker 2: Care she would have total control if she went on
Speaker 2: call her daddy, total control, Like there is no more
Speaker 2: powerful pop culture figure in the world. We all know
Speaker 2: about Tree Pain, who's her legendary public says too, you
Speaker 2: know what cracks a whip like she could have chosen
Speaker 2: any of them, Dax Mark, they're all blokes, yeah, except
Speaker 2: for Alex.
Speaker 3: The format of those is long form, and I don't
Speaker 3: think that Taylor is particularly comfortable doing long form. She
Speaker 3: gets to decide if this is five or ten or
Speaker 3: fifth how long do you think it's going to be.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's going to be an hour. I
Speaker 3: reckon it's probably going to be like fifteen.
Speaker 1: I don't think Travis is really into an hour long
Speaker 1: interview anyone.
Speaker 3: No, And this is my other theory. Okay, So GQ
Speaker 3: interview Travis does talk a little bit about Taylor, and
Speaker 3: you know, anything he says has been Tree has checked it,
Speaker 3: and he's just repeating what he's allowed to say. He
Speaker 3: talked about how Taylor is like an athlete, he's been
Speaker 3: blown away by she walks off stage and he just goes,
Speaker 3: that was an athletic performance. How tired she is afterwards.
Speaker 3: All of that, which I think is hyping up the
Speaker 3: album because the album is going to be all about
Speaker 3: the Eras tour and the Showgirl and blah blah blah. Now,
Speaker 3: why would she go on New Heights because it's her
Speaker 3: boyfriend Theory Hollywayen. Right, there is one thing she's never done.
Speaker 3: She's never done the super Bowl, right, And she has
Speaker 3: been on the record as saying I want to do
Speaker 3: six albums or something before I do the super Bowl.
Speaker 3: She was doing the Eras to a few years and
Speaker 3: years and years.
Speaker 1: Jesse, I just got chills. And see where you're checking this.
Speaker 3: There's something about the super Bowl happening next year, something
Speaker 3: about it happening in California, which has some relationship to Orange.
Speaker 3: I think she's doing the super Bowl.
Speaker 1: What's the Orange?
Speaker 3: I don't know, Amelia, I don't understand any of the clues.
Speaker 1: This is such a good theory up until what were
Speaker 1: you through orange.
Speaker 3: Into Everything is orange?
Speaker 2: Now? All right, it's my cynical side. I know it
Speaker 2: is my genic cynical side. Every relationship is a happy
Speaker 2: ending till it isn't. You often regret being quite so
Speaker 2: gushy and open in a relationship who hasn't been there.
Speaker 2: Two years in, you're telling everybody, this is my person.
Speaker 2: I've never felt more understood. Six months later you're like,
Speaker 2: what did I ever see in that?
Speaker 5: What?
Speaker 3: Like even if they break up tomorrow. It's like she's
Speaker 3: done so many different announcements for albums. Remember last time
Speaker 3: she got so much because she did it at the
Speaker 3: ground Gray and so people went, yeah, you're feeling someone's moment.
Speaker 3: And then with this one, it's like with your boyfriend.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just an album.
Speaker 2: That's one hundred percent true. That is one hundred percent true.
Speaker 2: But I think that one of the things that the
Speaker 2: tailor law does is encourages over analyzation. That's the whole point.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's a walking point for it.
Speaker 2: So it's not like who cares, It's like, there's got
Speaker 2: to be.
Speaker 3: A reason I have one more question familiar, which is,
Speaker 3: if we go these leaks started yesterday, Tree Pain would
Speaker 3: have been on the phone having a panic attack. Do
Speaker 3: we think that something hasty happened yesterday. Do you think
Speaker 3: that yesterday unfolded like the plan was, or did they
Speaker 3: have to make changes in real time about the kind
Speaker 3: of announcement.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because it is her twelfth album, so the
Speaker 1: numerology of it all kind of added up. I looked
Speaker 1: closely at her presentation in the podcast video. She had
Speaker 1: a perfect cat eye, which was interesting. But I imagine
Speaker 1: it's probably not hard for Taylor Swift to rustle up
Speaker 1: and make up artist on short notice, or maybe she's
Speaker 1: even perfected her own cat I. I think she was
Speaker 1: wearing a shirt that she tucked in because she wanted
Speaker 1: to avoid pregnancy speculation as to whether this was planned
Speaker 1: the podcast appearance, she could have done that on the fly.
Speaker 1: They appeared to be home together at one of their
Speaker 1: many mansions in the American Midwest, and it could have
Speaker 1: been something that was pulled together very quickly.
Speaker 3: And maybe that's the reason. Maybe there wasn't time to
Speaker 3: do all the contracts and all of that for call
Speaker 3: her Daddy and they just went screw up. We'll do
Speaker 3: Travis here he is with his microphone.
Speaker 2: I also love that Taylor Swift's version of a chaotic
Speaker 2: album launch would be anybody else's like mastermind quisition.
Speaker 3: I will say one of our content producers is swifty.
Speaker 2: Just show me one.
Speaker 3: There's quite as so many of them, and they're yelling.
Speaker 3: There was an equation on the board yesterday, and I
Speaker 3: still don't understand someone's an equation.
Speaker 1: It's like Russell Crow in a beautiful Wine.
Speaker 3: It's exactly like that the Swifties. And she says that
Speaker 3: the Chief's colors, the Chiefs is who Travis played with
Speaker 3: and he won the Super Bowl. The Chiefs is red
Speaker 3: and yellow. And what do those colors make together? Ladies,
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, it's orange.
Speaker 2: But one question about the Super Bowl. There's no guarantee
Speaker 2: the Chiefs are going to be in the Super Bowl.
Speaker 2: Is it like? If the Chiefs get to the Super Bowl,
Speaker 2: and if the Chiefs do not, she will.
Speaker 1: There.
Speaker 2: The Carpenter could do it.
Speaker 1: There is scarrelous gossip, very scurlous that the Chiefs. It's
Speaker 1: in the NFL's interest, the National Football League's interest, to
Speaker 1: make sure that the Chiefs get to the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1: They have made it to the Super Bowl two of
Speaker 1: the last two Super Bowls. I'm just leaving that there.
Speaker 1: In a moment, I break down some of the big
Speaker 1: stories happening in the world this week.
Speaker 2: You might have noticed that there is a lot going
Speaker 2: on in the world at the moment, and there is
Speaker 2: a lot going on specifically in foreign policy. Now, our
Speaker 2: Amelia Lester has a day job. Do you know what
Speaker 2: it is, Jesse Stephens.
Speaker 3: She is a boss lady at a place called Foreign
Speaker 3: Policy Holly Wainwright.
Speaker 2: She is an editor there. Yes, we often ask Amelia
Speaker 2: to explain things to us, to break things down for us,
Speaker 2: and we thought it would be great to do that
Speaker 2: on the show this week. Complicated stuff gone on in
Speaker 2: the world. We asked, Amelia, can you get us across
Speaker 2: it in five minutes?
Speaker 3: And I should tell you, Amelia the other day I
Speaker 3: was reading the Substack and it was referring to it
Speaker 3: was giving an example of like, you know, I'm not
Speaker 3: blah as in some really smart you know publication, and
Speaker 3: it said foreign policy and she is actually really smart.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there is certainly a lot going on in foreign
Speaker 1: policy around the world at the moment. Too much for
Speaker 1: five minutes, But there are three big stories that I
Speaker 1: want to get you across in the next five minutes.
Speaker 1: Here goes. On Monday, Anthony Albanezi joined France and Canada
Speaker 1: in announcing that Australia was going to recognize the state
Speaker 1: of Palestine. This is going to happen at next month's
Speaker 1: United Nations General Assembly in New York. Now, look, what's
Speaker 1: interesting is that seventy five percent of countries in the
Speaker 1: world already recognized Palestine as a state. But what's been
Speaker 1: happening in the last few weeks is that these Western countries,
Speaker 1: including Australia, have been getting on board with this. And
Speaker 1: it's a sign of how much international opinion has shifted
Speaker 1: on Israel in recent weeks. Okay, next, I have a
Speaker 1: Chump update. It's been seven months since he was inaugurated,
Speaker 1: and a lot of the discussion I've noticed around in
Speaker 1: the American left has been revolving around this idea of
Speaker 1: how bad are things and how bad are things going
Speaker 1: to get. That's where a lot of the conversation is
Speaker 1: right now in terms of Trump's kind of authoritarian tendencies.
Speaker 1: Last week, I was really startled because the TV host
Speaker 1: Rachel Maddow called it. She said that the United States
Speaker 1: is now a consolidating dictatorship. So let's listen to what
Speaker 1: she had to say.
Speaker 5: Life has not stopped, and none of our personal lives
Speaker 5: have stopped. But also at the same time, life in
Speaker 5: the United States is profoundly changing, is profoundly different than
Speaker 5: it was even six months ago, because we do now
Speaker 5: live in a country that has an authoritarian leader in charge.
Speaker 1: So matdaw is very much, i should say, a liberal commentator.
Speaker 1: She is very much on the left. But the evidence
Speaker 1: that she gathered for that claim and giving it that
Speaker 1: name was really compelling. She was pointing to, for instance,
Speaker 1: Trump's secret police forces, immigrations and Customs enforcement agents who
Speaker 1: go around scapegoading immigrants.
Speaker 3: That's ice.
Speaker 1: That's ice. Yep. So that was last week. But if
Speaker 1: she'd been doing the segment this week, she could have
Speaker 1: mentioned another new development, which is that Trump authorized what
Speaker 1: is essentially a federal takeover of the capital of Washington,
Speaker 1: d C.
Speaker 3: Okay, I've seen those headlines. What does that mean?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So this is personal for me because I lived
Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. For many years. It is my
Speaker 1: United States home. People in Washington, d C are not
Speaker 1: happy about it. Basically, what he did is he mobilized
Speaker 1: the National Guard, which is a branch of the military
Speaker 1: that's meant to look after national emergencies. There's a flood somewhere,
Speaker 1: there's an earthquake somewhere, They're going to be there to
Speaker 1: help out.
Speaker 2: And was this in response to anything in particular.
Speaker 1: No, he said that DC was full of filth and scum,
Speaker 1: and he used inaccurate crime statistics to prove his point
Speaker 1: that DC was kind of a hell hole.
Speaker 2: That when he said filth and scum, he meant human beings.
Speaker 1: Yes, So, finally the world is going to be watching
Speaker 1: what's happening in Alaska. On Friday, Big deal. Trump is
Speaker 1: going to be meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin. There
Speaker 1: it's Trump's seventh in person meeting with Putin. That's seven
Speaker 1: more times than he's met with Anthony Albanisi. Trump and
Speaker 1: Putin are meant to be hammering out a peace deal
Speaker 1: on Ukraine, which Russia invaded in February of twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1: They haven't invited Ukraine's president Vladimir Zelenski, and Zelenski and
Speaker 1: European leaders are really worried about what Putin and Trump
Speaker 1: are going to discuss here and what terms they're going
Speaker 1: to put on this so called peace deal, especially since
Speaker 1: both Trump and Putin have been talking about the idea
Speaker 1: of a lance op Zwanski doesn't want a land swap.
Speaker 1: He doesn't want any Russian land. He doesn't want Russia
Speaker 1: taking Ukrainian land. Putin, though, is a very devious man.
Speaker 1: He is a former KGB agent. He knows a lot
Speaker 1: about how to push people's buttons. He's shown that he
Speaker 1: can manipulate Trump time and time again. He famously, I
Speaker 1: don't know if you remember this, but one time when
Speaker 1: he was meeting with the former German leader Angela Merkle,
Speaker 1: he had a dog wander into the meeting. Merkle is
Speaker 1: famously scared of dogs, and she visibly tensed up when
Speaker 1: this large dog came in and wandered around her ankles
Speaker 1: for no reason, and it really did put her on
Speaker 1: the back book in the negotiations.
Speaker 2: He doesn't even like dogs.
Speaker 1: So Trump, I think, is pretty inclined to go along
Speaker 1: with what Putin has to say anyway, But I'm sort
Speaker 1: of wondering what Putin is going to bring to scare Trump?
Speaker 1: Is he going to bring a salad or maybe a
Speaker 1: climate scientist or what about an older woman climate scientist.
Speaker 3: Over the age of thirty five. I was thinking Putin
Speaker 3: might bring a cold the flu, because isn't he a
Speaker 3: germified so just with a real dirty hand.
Speaker 1: And he hasn't gotten his flu vaccine, we can almost.
Speaker 3: I also wondered some reading material, imagine Trump's reaction to
Speaker 3: that and the other thing I went, what would really
Speaker 3: scare him? I'll never forget this when Trump said that
Speaker 3: humans are built like batteries and if we exercise too
Speaker 3: much will run out, Like he worries about exercise because
Speaker 3: he doesn't. He doesn't because he thinks it's bad for help.
Speaker 3: So I'm thinking, like if he brought a treadmill or
Speaker 3: like weights, or like what about if.
Speaker 1: He turned it into you know how there was this
Speaker 1: trend for walking meetings years ago, was like, let's take
Speaker 1: a walk around Alaska.
Speaker 3: Yeah, be terrified.
Speaker 2: After that rundown, I'm like, no wonder people are doing
Speaker 2: equations about when Taylor fucking album is coming out next?
Speaker 3: After the break?
Speaker 2: Should children be allowed in public spaces like at all? Ever?
Speaker 2: Vigorous debate about sport, restaurants, pubs.
Speaker 3: One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday
Speaker 3: and Thursday exclusively for Muma Mea subscribers. Follow the link
Speaker 3: in the show notes to get us in your ears
Speaker 3: five days a week. And a huge thank you to
Speaker 3: all our current subscribers.
Speaker 2: Okay, over to tennis News.
Speaker 3: I like tennis news.
Speaker 2: I know you do. You are a tennis correspondent and
Speaker 2: I will be relying on your knowledge. Healy here, just
Speaker 2: as we were relying on a Melia Leicester for the
Speaker 2: Taylor Swift knowledge. Twenty two year old British tennis player
Speaker 2: Emma Radakanu was playing a match against Arena A Saberlenka
Speaker 2: at the Cincinnati Open in the Land of the Free
Speaker 2: this week. She was losing and during a crucial point
Speaker 2: in the third set, a child in the crowd started crying.
Speaker 2: After a while, Radikannu gestures to the umpire like, you're
Speaker 2: always saying quiet please, So what about this bullshit? Then?
Speaker 2: And this is what happened. This is what the umpire
Speaker 2: said back, it's a child.
Speaker 1: Do you want me to send the child out of
Speaker 1: the stadium.
Speaker 2: What you can hear there is the crowd or saying, yes,
Speaker 2: kick the baby out, and they all applauded, and Emma
Speaker 2: was kind of I shouldn't say it, but she was
Speaker 2: kind of like shrugging, like, yeah, kick the baby out.
Speaker 2: Details a sketchy on what actually happened next, but Emma
Speaker 2: did lose the match. Jesse, should the kid have been
Speaker 2: at the tennis match in the first place.
Speaker 3: I am on the record as saying that kids and
Speaker 3: babies everywhere let them in. I remember we talked about
Speaker 3: a comedy show we go well, oh me. I think
Speaker 3: that it's really important because where kids don't allowed, their
Speaker 3: parents aren't allowed either. But in this case and how
Speaker 3: it works in tennis is this was a really critical point.
Speaker 3: This was a really important moment in the match. And
Speaker 3: what actually should have happened is that umpire should have
Speaker 3: sorted that out, like it's their job to keep quiet,
Speaker 3: keep everything quiet. I think the important context is that
Speaker 3: wasn't a baby squawking. It wasn't a baby who had
Speaker 3: cried for thirty seconds. It was a baby who had
Speaker 3: been crying for ten minutes, according to reports, and it
Speaker 3: was kind of starting and stopping and starting and stopping,
Speaker 3: and she was finding it really distracting. Now a tennis match,
Speaker 3: if there are people walking around, if a phone is
Speaker 3: going off, like there are signs everywhere at tennis saying
Speaker 3: turn your phones off. There have been cases where someone's
Speaker 3: wearing a watch and the watch is distracting to the
Speaker 3: person who's about to serve, and they ask them to
Speaker 3: take the watch off, Like that is how the sport works.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but isn't that changing because I feel like we've
Speaker 2: discussed this a lot that you know, at Wimbledon now
Speaker 2: at the Australian Open, now, people get up and go
Speaker 2: to the bar, people cheer, people cheer, and there's been
Speaker 2: a lot of yeah, lighting up everybody, like we can't
Speaker 2: expect people to sit in silence anymore.
Speaker 3: Well, apparently, what they ordinarily do is make sure that
Speaker 3: if you have young kids with you, they sit you
Speaker 3: near the exit. So there's an understanding that if the
Speaker 3: child starts making noise, then you move out.
Speaker 2: At Wimbledon, the like kids under five in.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I can understand that because of the nature
Speaker 3: of the match. So I actually am on the side
Speaker 3: of the tennis player here. I think that the umpire
Speaker 3: probably should have sorted it or someone in the crowd.
Speaker 3: But in defense of the mother or father who is
Speaker 3: with that child. The other thing you're not really meant
Speaker 3: to do during tenths tennis matches is move It's really distracting.
Speaker 3: So often an umpire will turn around and go, can
Speaker 3: you sit down, because they're trying to serve and there's
Speaker 3: all this movement, So they might have just been like, oh,
Speaker 3: I don't know whether I'm meant to move or not.
Speaker 3: But I do think and this is just common sense, right.
Speaker 3: I think sometimes we treat parents as though they have
Speaker 3: no self awareness about any context or environment. It's like
Speaker 3: I've brought I remember having to take her to a
Speaker 3: premiere for something. Babysitter fell through the second she started
Speaker 3: and she got upset. It was just you get her out.
Speaker 3: In the same way that if I was sitting at
Speaker 3: the tennis and I had a coughing fit, I would go, oh,
Speaker 3: I'm going to get out, because I am just aware
Speaker 3: of everyone else. So I think that the media has
Speaker 3: tried to drum this up as like, ooh, hostility towards kids.
Speaker 3: I don't think that's what it is. I'm actually on
Speaker 3: the side of the tennis player, do you think, Amelia.
Speaker 1: I think that there is this encroaching hostility towards kids.
Speaker 1: And I was reading the comments section on stories around
Speaker 1: this tennis story, and people were like, this is how
Speaker 1: I feel on planes. And I wonder if there's a
Speaker 1: distinction to be made between spaces where children kind of
Speaker 1: have to be if they're going to be living their lives,
Speaker 1: and that includes going to airports and you know, supermarkets
Speaker 1: other places where you have to go. And I do
Speaker 1: think there's an argument to be made that maybe children
Speaker 1: shouldn't be in more optional spaces like a tennis match.
Speaker 3: I wonder though, if they're allowed, if the venue is
Speaker 3: open to them being there, then like I've gone to
Speaker 3: comedy shows or theater things, and there's a certain age
Speaker 3: bracket of when you can go. But look, would I
Speaker 3: take Lunar at that. I think that she would find
Speaker 3: it really boring. Apparently it was really really hot. It's
Speaker 3: very long thing.
Speaker 1: I hate the idea of setting kids up to fail.
Speaker 1: And part of the reason why I prefer not to
Speaker 1: take my children to restaurants, even though I know lots
Speaker 1: of people who think it's a very important life skill
Speaker 1: for children to acquire, is because I just think it's
Speaker 1: setting them up to fail. You're taking them to a
Speaker 1: place where, as you said, at the tennis they can't
Speaker 1: even move like that. Don't take children to a place
Speaker 1: where they can't move. At a restaurant, they're forced to
Speaker 1: sit down and order off a menu of things that
Speaker 1: probably doesn't include mac and cheese, and you know, speak
Speaker 1: in an indoor voice and all these things which I
Speaker 1: guess children should be learning how to do, but which
Speaker 1: they're not always equipped to do at the end of
Speaker 1: a long day.
Speaker 2: But what do you call a restaurant? Right? Because I
Speaker 2: sympathize with you if I'm paying lots of money to
Speaker 2: sit in a rarefied room, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: like some kind of fancy, very adulty space. But increasingly cafes, restaurants,
Speaker 2: pubs with beer gardens, all those kind of things cater
Speaker 2: to kits like they do, so surely that's fine.
Speaker 1: Well, that's actually a really interesting question around pubs because
Speaker 1: that's a very much live issue in Australia right now.
Speaker 1: And what I didn't realize is how recent a phenomenon
Speaker 1: it is to take children to pubs. Do you know
Speaker 1: It wasn't until two thousand and seven that New South
Speaker 1: Wales made it technically legal to take children.
Speaker 3: Into really, because there used to be a thing I
Speaker 3: remember when I was growing up, when I was a kid,
Speaker 3: if we were ever at a pub, then it was
Speaker 3: like there was an area you couldn't cross.
Speaker 2: Do you remember that? And also children can't go near
Speaker 2: the bar.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, But a lot of pub owners are sort
Speaker 1: of saying that they've gone too far in making them
Speaker 1: to children friendly to family friendly, because when adults drink,
Speaker 1: they don't become responsible parents and their kids are running
Speaker 1: around this space that really was designed for adults, and
Speaker 1: the parents are taking their eyes off the ball, so
Speaker 1: to speak. And I was curious about whether we think
Speaker 1: it's a good idea in terms of what we're teaching
Speaker 1: children about. Look, I have to be honest, every Monday
Speaker 1: night in my neighborhood the pub has kids eat free
Speaker 1: and it is a huge social scene and I go
Speaker 1: there every Monday. This is very much me interrogating my
Speaker 1: own patterns here. But it turns out that there is
Speaker 1: this new study from Australian researchers that makes the claim
Speaker 1: that the more time kids spend at pubs I want
Speaker 1: to get the wording here exactly right, the higher the
Speaker 1: risks they face from alcohol in the future. And that's
Speaker 1: essentially because one it's glorified advertising for alcohol. You see
Speaker 1: your parents out at the pub, they're having fun. You
Speaker 1: think alcohol's fun. And two it sends a longer term
Speaker 1: message that it norms alcohol and the use of alcohol.
Speaker 1: It says that when adults get together, they drink. And
Speaker 1: when I read that, I felt sad about my Monday evenings.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I'm here to defend your Monday evenings with
Speaker 2: my life because I accept all that. But the thing is,
Speaker 2: and this certainly isn't true for everybody. Like Australia is
Speaker 2: a very multicultural society, and there are lots of sections
Speaker 2: of Australia where alcohol is not a part of all socializing,
Speaker 2: but there is in the mainstream norm alcohol is legal.
Speaker 2: When you're over eighteen, you're allowed to drink. Response. We
Speaker 2: have some very strict rules that govern around that and
Speaker 2: who can be served in pubs and all those things
Speaker 2: stricter than in some other places in the world. So
Speaker 2: there's also an argument that children seeing parents drink responsibly
Speaker 2: is not the end of the world. Right. So for myself,
Speaker 2: if I know when it's particularly when I lived in
Speaker 2: the city, I don't live in the city anymore. But
Speaker 2: for all the time that my kids were young, I
Speaker 2: lived in an area of the town where me and
Speaker 2: all my friends lived in small units that didn't have gardens,
Speaker 2: that didn't have We couldn't have each other around, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. That isn't what happened, And that's
Speaker 2: not even an of course not there was not a dinta.
Speaker 2: It's not any of that stuff. So we would meet
Speaker 2: in public spaces, and we met in parks, and we
Speaker 2: met in cafes, and we met in pubs, no question.
Speaker 2: And sometimes now I cringe a little bit at some
Speaker 2: of the places I took my kids to. But I
Speaker 2: had no family support, I had no you know, official
Speaker 2: baby cities, like we were our community, and the kids
Speaker 2: went where we went, right And I went to bowling
Speaker 2: clubs where the kids would run a mark like they
Speaker 2: really would and they'd have a great time. And we
Speaker 2: went to beer guns were set up for that, pubs
Speaker 2: that had playgrounds, all of those things. And in England,
Speaker 2: which obviously is where I grew up, although that wasn't
Speaker 2: necessarily the norm when I was a kid, but they're now,
Speaker 2: like lots of pubs have big play areas and it's
Speaker 2: very much encouraged. And the reason for that is because
Speaker 2: the publicans are making money. It's because of food. You
Speaker 2: introduce food into an establishment like that. Pubs once upon
Speaker 2: a time are just the preserve of men, working class
Speaker 2: men broadly speaking, and women bust their way into those
Speaker 2: front bars and snugs over a while and said I
Speaker 2: want to be and then they bought their bloody kids.
Speaker 2: And I think in a way I would never argue
Speaker 2: for oh, I think it's great for kids to see
Speaker 2: their parents drinking. I am very aware of how problematic
Speaker 2: our over acceptance of alcohol is in social situations. But
Speaker 2: I think, as you said at the beginning, Jesse, the
Speaker 2: more places where children aren't welcome, the more isolated parents are.
Speaker 2: I would say it's even different now where I live
Speaker 2: in a regional area and much more suburban environment. There
Speaker 2: are more options for how you get together with people.
Speaker 2: There's more space. There are also clubs, which places that
Speaker 2: often you never go to until you have kids, and
Speaker 2: you go there because they're very often open to kids, right,
Speaker 2: And they'll have a green space and they'll have a
Speaker 2: green space and they've designed it that way because they
Speaker 2: want you to spend your money there. And at least
Speaker 2: it's a communal place where people are getting together. So
Speaker 2: the more places kids can't come, the more isolated I am.
Speaker 2: I would have been at home alone.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's sometimes the only option where you don't
Speaker 3: have to cook and clean, and that's the kind of
Speaker 3: relief for a you know, mum or dad. But I
Speaker 3: also find the cultural difference as a point of tension
Speaker 3: because I know people who have gone overseas and expected
Speaker 3: that they can bring their child to a restaurant and
Speaker 3: you go, oh, that's not how they do it here. Like,
Speaker 3: it's very dependent on different places. We're talking to someone
Speaker 3: at work who lived in Sweden and you simply wouldn't
Speaker 3: you wouldn't take your kids.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But then when I was in Italy, anyone will
Speaker 2: tell you it is in Italy kids will run around
Speaker 2: to eleven o'clock at night. No one bats an island
Speaker 2: like not in a form dining setting. Again, like to
Speaker 2: the common sense point you were saying about the tennis,
Speaker 2: I think there's a formal dining setting where it would
Speaker 2: be irritating to have a kid there. Although if that
Speaker 2: kid is quiet and on a screen, if I'm irritated
Speaker 2: by that, that's just about my judgment. It's not about
Speaker 2: my actual experience, and I should examine that myself. But
Speaker 2: you know that in lots of sudden Europe, kids are
Speaker 2: part of every interaction and nobody gets upset about it.
Speaker 1: What I'm interested in is why you think people are
Speaker 1: getting more upset about it these days as well? What's
Speaker 1: that about? Because Claire Stevens wrote a fantastic substack about
Speaker 1: an experience she had recently along these lines.
Speaker 3: Yeah, on a plane, And I just think a plane
Speaker 3: is the fin It's the most ridiculous place for someone
Speaker 3: to get mad about you being with your toddler because
Speaker 3: you're like, by the way, I don't want to be
Speaker 3: spending time with this toddler on a steel box in
Speaker 3: the air either. I'm not enjoying this. And again it's
Speaker 3: somewhere where it's like we have no other choice. But
Speaker 3: I wonder. We talked last week about declining birthrate, and
Speaker 3: I wonder if that does cause an increasing hostility.
Speaker 1: If people just see fewer kids around.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the less it happens, the more you kind of go, oh, well,
Speaker 3: we don't expect children in this space, and maybe we
Speaker 3: build less spaces that cater to them in that way,
Speaker 3: I think that you get the aggressional the irritability of
Speaker 3: people who maybe have never experienced that before.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's a fine line, isn't it, Because you know,
Speaker 1: it seemed like before I was saying that you shouldn't
Speaker 1: take kids to sort of optional public spaces. But hole,
Speaker 1: you've made me reflect on the idea that when you
Speaker 1: have children and you want them to be interesting and
Speaker 1: interested people, you want to take them to different experiences
Speaker 1: from an early age, which includes the tennis, it includes
Speaker 1: a premiere if that's part of your life. You want
Speaker 1: to expose them to diverse sets of circumstances. And there's
Speaker 1: something a little bit sad about the idea of keeping
Speaker 1: your kid cooped up at home where they can't upset
Speaker 1: anybody until the age of eighteen, when they're suddenly allowed
Speaker 1: every year.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And should we always be meeting kids in there
Speaker 3: world or sometimes are they welcome into the adult world
Speaker 3: as well? And is that good for them to see
Speaker 3: their parents socializing and living their own lives.
Speaker 2: I think about the planes. I've never met a parent
Speaker 2: who's delighted about taking their small child on a plane.
Speaker 2: But if they have to travel, for me to be
Speaker 2: they're going to do it. The reason people are grumpier
Speaker 2: and granpierre, and it's nearly always men who are grumpier
Speaker 2: and gropier, is again, there were used to be many
Speaker 2: fewer women in these kind of public spaces. And although
Speaker 2: and although I'm always always the person who's saying parenting
Speaker 2: isn't just for women, very often it's the mother who's
Speaker 2: if she's traveling, the kid comes. If she's going out,
Speaker 2: the kid comes very often, And it'll often be a
Speaker 2: man in a business suit who thinks that planes are
Speaker 2: a place that he's working, that he's.
Speaker 3: Got to concentrate.
Speaker 2: It's quiet, it's serious here, I should and I should
Speaker 2: be able to get my shut eye and all those things,
Speaker 2: and he doesn't think of it as a public space
Speaker 2: when it is one. And surely the other one is
Speaker 2: just our increasing discomfort with discomfort, right, because I've also
Speaker 2: seen young women get very upset about mums and babies
Speaker 2: on planes, or parents and babies on planes. And I
Speaker 2: understand why they like to be able to control any
Speaker 2: interaction in their life, because they can because of everything
Speaker 2: we talk about all the time. You know the fact
Speaker 2: that you can curate the opinions you have to hear,
Speaker 2: you curate what you're going to eat, and who you're
Speaker 2: going to see and who you're going to pick up
Speaker 2: the phone to. And in a plane, everybody's lives are
Speaker 2: like on you know, whether it's the guy who's snoring
Speaker 2: or the baby who's crying, or the person with a cough,
Speaker 2: or you know, the person who insists on not putting
Speaker 2: their headphones in or whatever.
Speaker 3: It is welcome to public space exactly.
Speaker 2: And we're just less and less comfortable, I think with
Speaker 2: public spaces. In another chapter of Mothers Can Never Win
Speaker 2: is Sophie Turner, you know, the actress former Games Thrones actress,
Speaker 2: very famously divorced from a Jonas. She was recently posting
Speaker 2: pictures of herself at the one of the Oasis concerts
Speaker 2: at Wembley and she looks like she's having a great
Speaker 2: time and all the comments are like, wry are kill men?
Speaker 2: Carry you kill it? And so she clapped back and said, oh,
Speaker 2: have you ever heard of this thing called shared custody?
Speaker 2: Maybe the kids were with their dad that day, and
Speaker 2: I just was like, so if you don't take your kids,
Speaker 2: you're going to get criticized. If you do take your kids,
Speaker 2: you're a bad mother, like there is no winning in
Speaker 2: this situation.
Speaker 3: I have some feedback. There's been a lot of hate
Speaker 3: thrown around lately, and I feel incredibly defensive. The Internet
Speaker 3: has inexplicably turned on what has been labeled stump clap
Speaker 3: hay music, which feels incredibly disrespectful to the early two
Speaker 3: thousand one post.
Speaker 2: On poor millennials. Everyone's coming for you, coming for.
Speaker 3: All about things. A post on X reads this whole
Speaker 3: generation of stomp clap ho hay indie folk was terrible,
Speaker 3: And to refresh your memory, if you're going I don't
Speaker 3: recall this genre, well here's a little taste.
Speaker 4: Because we will never around us.
Speaker 1: I was immediately transported to a barn in a field,
Speaker 1: drinking a cocktail with a sprig of rosemary and a
Speaker 1: mason er.
Speaker 3: It was a simpler time, Amelia. It was such a
Speaker 3: lovely time. So think Mumford and Sons of monsters and
Speaker 3: men the luminius. Think man in a waistcoat, another has
Speaker 3: an indie hat. Maybe throw some suspenders in there. Maybe
Speaker 3: the man with the hat had suspenders. He's also got
Speaker 3: a basoon and a beard and a mustache. So much,
Speaker 3: but very unkept This was the moment where millennial Hipsterdam
Speaker 3: hit its peak. And you see, those were the days
Speaker 3: days and they took our skinny jeans, and they took
Speaker 3: our socks, and they took our parts and just leave
Speaker 3: our Stom Club hay Home music alone because it wasn't anyone.
Speaker 2: Have anything to do. Also with Anna Kendrick and the Cups, remember,
Speaker 2: and then that was fine.
Speaker 1: I feel like Zoey Deschanal's all over this moment.
Speaker 3: God, it was such a lovely time, and I just
Speaker 3: feel the Genz's just keep going back and just like
Speaker 3: raining on our parade. But I have such nostalgia for
Speaker 3: that moment and I think it should come back.
Speaker 2: A massive thank you to all the outlauders who've been
Speaker 2: here with us. It's been a roller coaster today. Oh
Speaker 2: goodness me listening to our show and to of course
Speaker 2: our fabulous team for helping us put it together. We're
Speaker 2: going to be back in your ears tomorrow and.
Speaker 3: If you're looking for something else to listen to, well,
Speaker 3: we did a deep dive on Holly's latest rabbit hole
Speaker 3: that she's fallen down, which is there are more wild
Speaker 3: allegations about Prince Andrew. We spoke last week about the
Speaker 3: new book entitled that has come out and it turns
Speaker 3: out there was so much more to it. So Holly
Speaker 3: got behind the mic with M and I and explained
Speaker 3: to us everything that's come out, what the impact will be,
Speaker 3: what we think Charles might do. Look, it's very very interesting.
Speaker 3: A link is always will be in our show notes.
Speaker 3: If you want a free subscription to Mama Maya, then
Speaker 3: listen up. Mama Mia is cooking up something very exciting
Speaker 3: and we need your brilliant opinions to help us make
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