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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to

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Speaker 2: MoMA Mia out Loud. It's what women are actually talking

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Speaker 2: about on Wednesday, the thirteenth of August. I'm Holly Wainwright,

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Speaker 2: I'm Jesse Stevens.

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Speaker 1: And I'm Amelia Lester.

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Speaker 2: And here's what's made our agenda for today. Pobs restaurants

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Speaker 2: and the tennis One female player's reaction to a noisy

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Speaker 2: child has reignited a debate about where kids are welcome,

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Speaker 2: and we do not agree.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot happening in the world this week, and

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Speaker 1: I'm going to give you the talking points you need

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Speaker 1: in under five minutes.

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Speaker 3: And why the MoMA Mea office went into a frenzy

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Speaker 3: over Taylor swift yesterday. We are gonna unpack the pr

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Speaker 3: of it all because some Swifties are saying it was

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Speaker 3: a bit clumsy.

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Speaker 1: So there is a theory.

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Speaker 3: Yep, there's a theory.

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Speaker 2: An orange. You're gonna explain to me orange good? Okay, good?

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Speaker 2: Please excuse me while I press refresh on my pre

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Speaker 2: order for Pammy's Pickles. Okay, yes, I'm talking about my

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Speaker 2: gardening buddy and my no makeup icon, Pamela Anderson and

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Speaker 2: her new pickle line. This week, she announced that she

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Speaker 2: has made some pickles. If anyone doesn't know what pickles are, cucumbers, vinegar,

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Speaker 2: that's pretty much it right. She's made a new line

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Speaker 2: of pickles. All the money's going to charity. They are

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Speaker 2: fifty eight dollars a jar Australian.

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Speaker 3: I like pickles. I love pickles, not fifty eight dollars.

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Speaker 2: But they've also got rose petals in them, which is

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Speaker 2: a little concerning, but a bit Megan. Pamela's pickling news

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Speaker 2: tickled me no end because I love me a celebrity

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Speaker 2: condiment and I like to see some new entries to

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Speaker 2: the marketplace. So Brooklyn Beckham's cloud twenty nine hot Sauce.

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Speaker 2: I love hot sauce like I've got twenty five different

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Speaker 2: hot sauces in my Fridgrookies. Yet no, I'm trying. I

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Speaker 2: would like it. It's fifty three dollars a bottle has a

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Speaker 2: hot sauce. It's called tingly ted Chili sauce. It's a

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Speaker 2: very reasonable twelve dollars.

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Speaker 3: Did you know that one of the FAQ's on the

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Speaker 3: website is ed Sharon Whitey have a hot sauce, and

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Speaker 3: he's like, I really like hot sauce. That's the whole

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Speaker 3: reason I should have a hot sauce. Yes, you could

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Speaker 3: have a hot sauce.

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Speaker 2: Holly's Hot sauce. Glenn Powell Smashed Kitchen has an eye

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Speaker 2: out for your wallet. He's got ketchup mustards, barbecue sauce,

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Speaker 2: and mayonnaise and they're all only about five dollars a piece.

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Speaker 2: Swoon Megan's jam of course, sorry preserve good luck getting

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Speaker 2: your hands on that. And John bon Jovi has a

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Speaker 2: pasta sauce And question why celebrity condiments? And also, as

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Speaker 2: much as I love condiments, do they taste better if

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Speaker 2: a hot person makes them?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they absolutely do. So there's a few reasons.

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Speaker 1: I think.

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Speaker 3: The first is I feel like you can own unlimited condiments,

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Speaker 3: and that we all feel like we might be one

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Speaker 3: condiment from yummy. Right, So it's like ben products, I'm

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Speaker 3: one product from.

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Speaker 2: Beautiful, I'm one lipstick away, yeah from exactly, yeah exactly.

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Speaker 3: And that's that's the thing where one condiment from going

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Speaker 3: And it's kind of the lipstick effect in that you

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Speaker 3: may not be able to afford all of the fancy

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Speaker 3: foods at the moment, but you will get that condiment

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Speaker 3: that you know isn't one meal, but you use it

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Speaker 3: over many. And that's why they say condiments are recession proof.

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Speaker 3: So they's something that if you invest in as a

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Speaker 3: celebrity or you put your face to it, then it's

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Speaker 3: a good economic move. And apparently I didn't know this

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Speaker 3: condiment talk big deal. Oh, condiments are very big on TikTok,

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Speaker 3: so all the slubs are jumping on.

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Speaker 1: I've got a bit of a Megan angle on this,

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Speaker 1: which is that Pame is doing this for Fu Mngo Estate,

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Speaker 1: which is a Los Angeles based kind of farm goods

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Speaker 1: beauty products line. It's actually sold in Mecca here and

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Speaker 1: many people say that Megan's as ever is modeled on

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Speaker 1: Flamingo Estate. Now what is interesting is one I have

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Speaker 1: been to Flamingo Estate. I once did a story where

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Speaker 1: I went there, and it's the most beautiful farm in

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Speaker 1: southern California and it literally looks like the Garden of Eden.

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Speaker 1: And I just imagine Pame with her hair up in

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Speaker 1: the iconic claw clip bun. Yeah, because that's also hygienic

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Speaker 1: when you're making condiments to get the hair out of

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Speaker 1: the way, just sort of pickling her cauliflower and her

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Speaker 1: cucumbers in this beautiful garden.

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Speaker 2: This is my dream. You are describing my dree light.

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Speaker 2: She wears white while she's in the garden at all times. Also, Pami,

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Speaker 2: which is very very very like unpractical, impractice impractical.

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Speaker 1: And did you follow the fact that when she was

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Speaker 1: first asked about Megan and Megan's cooking products Empire, she

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Speaker 1: was very dismissive of it, But then when she was

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Speaker 1: asked about it recently, she said there's plenty of room

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Speaker 1: for celebrity cooking shows and that she didn't invent them.

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Speaker 1: So there's a way in which Pammy and Meg's are

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Speaker 1: kind of evolving on parallel tracks.

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Speaker 2: Heah, that's so interesting.

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Speaker 3: I also reckon that there's nothing controversial about a condiment

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Speaker 3: like it feels like a very safe, low barrier to

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Speaker 3: entry space to enter into. There's a few other things

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Speaker 3: that would probably be harder.

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Speaker 1: I have a question. Does Liam Neeson like Pam's pickles.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure he does, so.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to show you something. Okay, what do we got?

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Speaker 2: We got ah brief curse.

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Speaker 4: Yep, Mick Greens, Yep.

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Speaker 3: This is my brand new album, The Life of a Showgirl.

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Speaker 2: I like grown men losing their shit.

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Speaker 3: No, that sounds like the office twenty four hours ago

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Speaker 3: is exactly the sound that was ringing through the Mummere office.

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Speaker 3: There's a tweet that we republished on our Instagram yesterday

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Speaker 3: morning that read it's a big day for annoying people

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Speaker 3: and then in brackets it said me And on Tuesday,

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Speaker 3: if you were in a workplace, you may have noticed

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Speaker 3: a considerable drop in productivity around twelve minutes past two

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Speaker 3: Sydney time. Perhaps there were people gathering at desks. It

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Speaker 3: sounded exactly like that. There were groans, there were screams,

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Speaker 3: there were sqheels, something something ts twelve New Heights, Showgirl,

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Speaker 3: Mint Green a podcast clip. Friends. I don't understand much,

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Speaker 3: but what I do know is that Taylor Allison Swift

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Speaker 3: Friend of the Pod, has a new album and it

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Speaker 3: is called.

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Speaker 2: Friend of the She listens finitely listen.

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Speaker 3: No, I have beef because she did not decide to

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Speaker 3: come on here to announce this album. It is called

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Speaker 3: the Life of a show Girl. We also know that

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Speaker 3: tomorrow we will be able to listen to the first

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Speaker 3: podcast interview Taylor is done in years and the interviewers

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Speaker 3: will be her boyfriend Travis Kelce and his brother Jason.

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Speaker 3: If you are not a swiftye if you don't know

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Speaker 3: that Taylor's favorite number is thirteen something minus one equals twelve,

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Speaker 3: I don't know. And you're not into decoding puzzles that

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Speaker 3: include something about a glitter emoji, then don't panic. We're

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Speaker 3: not here to delve into every single little detail. But

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Speaker 3: what we do want to do is look at this

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Speaker 3: PR strategy because some of it, by Taylor's standards, felt

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Speaker 3: a bit rushed, and the decision to sit down with

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Speaker 3: Travis rather than say Alex Cooper on call her daddy,

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Speaker 3: some people have feelings about it. Now I want to

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Speaker 3: take a few steps back, Amelia. This is one of

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Speaker 3: your areas of expertise. We know you went to Harvard.

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Speaker 3: This was one of the courses. Speak to me about

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Speaker 3: the leak theory.

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Speaker 1: Here's how things happened yesterday, how I experienced them Australian

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Speaker 1: Eastern Standard time. Yesterday morning, was walking around a supermarket

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Speaker 1: and my phone started blowing up with images on x

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Speaker 1: and on Reddit of what looked like photos from Taylor

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Speaker 1: Swift's new album. There was a photo of her in

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Speaker 1: a very dramatic black bob. There was also a photo

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Speaker 1: of her in sort of Vegas showgirl garb, and there

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Speaker 1: was also a list of tracks, and people were speculating

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Speaker 1: that this was the album that there's been chatter about

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Speaker 1: for a while, because when.

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Speaker 2: I put my hand up and asked a question, wasn't

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Speaker 2: the last album just like five minutes ago the tortured poets,

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Speaker 2: was that last year being.

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Speaker 1: The second longest hiatus that she's.

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Speaker 2: Sayless me and it's only been what ae longest a year?

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Speaker 2: And their collie she just so see, I didn't know

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Speaker 2: we were expecting a drop there was because I'm not

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Speaker 2: a sniff.

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Speaker 1: You weren't clowning. There were various clues that one was coming,

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Speaker 1: which I won't bore you with. But these images got leaked,

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Speaker 1: and then also some lyrics leaked on the lyrics website Genius,

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Speaker 1: and then we all somehow went to tailorswift dot com.

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Speaker 1: You know how these things happen on the Internet. Everyone

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Speaker 1: suddenly on tailorswift dot com. It turned into a bright orange,

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Speaker 1: glittery countdown to twelve twelve twelve Eastern times, so that's

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Speaker 1: the time on the East coast of the US, which

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Speaker 1: was two pm Australian Eastern. And then when the countdown ended,

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Speaker 1: we were greeted with a shop with the pre sales

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Speaker 1: for an album which, as you mentioned, Jesse is going

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Speaker 1: to be called The Life of a Showgirl. And then

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Speaker 1: as if that wasn't enough, then the New Heights clip dropped.

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Speaker 1: New Heights is the podcast at Travis and Jason Kelcey

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Speaker 1: host which they recently got one hundred million dollars for,

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Speaker 1: and that's when she announced that she's going to be

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Speaker 1: on the show tomorrow Thursday.

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Speaker 2: Have another question, Do I have to buy the album?

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Speaker 2: Don't I just get to listen to it for nothing?

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Speaker 2: What do mean in pre order? What do you mean shop?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: People? Actually what am I talking?

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Speaker 1: Apparently the Australian shop was literally impossible to get into

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Speaker 1: and people kept being redirected to the American shop. That's

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Speaker 1: how popular it was.

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Speaker 2: Do you mean to buy a vinyl pre order.

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Speaker 1: A vinyl copy? I want to talk a bit about

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Speaker 1: why she chose to go on New Heights though.

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Speaker 3: Yes, this is the part I am really interested in

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Speaker 3: because I'm impressed. Okay, and your sentiment, Holly. It is

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Speaker 3: reflected on the internet. There is a viral comment that says,

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Speaker 3: Taylor Swift has led me to places I wouldn't even

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Speaker 3: go with a gun listening to a podcast hosted by men.

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Speaker 3: Commentator Hannah Ferguson wrote, yes, I will be the first listener.

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Speaker 3: But imagine being one of the most successful women in

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Speaker 3: the world and announcing your next huge career milestone on

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Speaker 3: your boyfriend's sports podcast. Why do we think she decided

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Speaker 3: to do that?

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Speaker 2: Wain right, Well, Amelia, I can't tell you why, but

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Speaker 2: I can tell you that I don't like it, but

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Speaker 2: we'll get to that.

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Speaker 1: I'm wrong. You were wrong. Taylor and Travis have become

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Speaker 1: an iconic unit in themselves and just also overnight, as

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Speaker 1: if there wasn't enough news, Travis came out on the

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Speaker 1: cover of usgq's September issue, which is a really big deal,

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Speaker 1: and he was styled in that by law Roach. She

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Speaker 1: styles Zenday like. He has become a huge iconic figure

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Speaker 1: in American pop culture as a result of his relationship

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Speaker 1: with Taylor. In addition to his football career.

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Speaker 3: He plays football apparently tight end.

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Speaker 2: When he's not being Taylor Swift's boyfriends.

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Speaker 1: I want to unpack why I think they're such a

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Speaker 1: good couple together and why it therefore makes sense for

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Speaker 1: her to announce this on his podcast. Let's run through

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Speaker 1: a few things they have in common. Both have parents

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Speaker 1: who separated in their early adulthood, and this is something

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Speaker 1: that is a big canon event for Travis. He talks

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Speaker 1: about it a lot in the GQ article. They were

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Speaker 1: both in their early twenties when their parents divorced. They

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Speaker 1: maintain close relationships with their parents, and their parents maintain

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Speaker 1: close relationships with each other. Secondly, both very close to

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Speaker 1: their brothers. Taylor's brother, Austin, is in charge of a

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Speaker 1: music licensing business. Travis hosts this pod cast with his brother.

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Speaker 1: Both talk a lot about having a really strong work ethic.

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Speaker 1: They both love self promotion. They're both very unabashed about it,

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Speaker 1: and we love that for them. And then, finally, not

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Speaker 1: all of us do. Before the gen Exit talks about

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Speaker 1: selling out. There's an anecdote in the GQ piece which

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Speaker 1: I want to share because I think it really gets

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Speaker 1: at what these two seemingly very different people actually seeing

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Speaker 1: each other. Travis is at a restaurant with a singing waiter.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why. It's one of those odd celebrity

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Speaker 1: profile tropes where you go to a weird restaurant and

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Speaker 1: the singing waiter comes over to the table and starts

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Speaker 1: singing Lauren Hill's song X Factor. Now that sounds a

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Speaker 1: little cringe inducing, a little mortifying, and the interviewer is

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Speaker 1: very embarrassed, but he looks across at Travis, and Travis

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Speaker 1: is sitting hands in lap, gazing up respectfully at this

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Speaker 1: singing waiter and just listening until the end of the

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Speaker 1: song and then thanking her for her service as she

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Speaker 1: moves along to the next table. That reminded me of

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Speaker 1: how the one thing we know about Taylor Allison Swift

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Speaker 1: outside of the law is that she's extremely respectful to people,

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Speaker 1: no matter their station. We've heard a lot about how

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Speaker 1: she tips people enormous amounts over the holidays. Everyone fans

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Speaker 1: says she's extremely gracious to them. I think that's what

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Speaker 1: these two people have in common. They're people who market

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Speaker 1: themselves as normal people, and they have the good manners

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Speaker 1: and the behavior to kind of back up that demeanor.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but all you've done there is tell me why

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Speaker 2: they're a good match and that's fine, right, that's so fine.

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Speaker 2: I'm so glad for them, very happy for them, very happy.

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Speaker 2: We've all heard a lot about the less good matches

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Speaker 2: that Taylor has dated, and I love those songs. In fact,

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Speaker 2: I'm much more here for heartbreak song than a happy song.

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Speaker 2: And I know this is my gen X coding that

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Speaker 2: is deep within me, right that finds it a tiny

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Speaker 2: bit icky that it's all so marketing like all the time.

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Speaker 2: And I'm so sorry because I know swift Is will

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Speaker 2: hate me so much for saying this, But I love

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Speaker 2: Taylor Swift. I think she's a genius. But the thing

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Speaker 2: about her that grates me is the intensely thought out

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Speaker 2: everything at all times. I love that, the twelve eyes

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Speaker 2: in this, the twelve pictures on the thing, the twelve,

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Speaker 2: the twelve that and the fact that nothing is organic.

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Speaker 2: I find that difficult. And I know it's my gen

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Speaker 2: EX coding. It's like intrusive thoughts. I can't help it.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, shut up, Holly, and I'm like, isn't it

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Speaker 2: great that she's going out with a blokey bloke? And

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Speaker 2: then I'm like, but DoD Jocks really need another win? No,

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Speaker 2: I surely stop it, like I just can't with them,

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Speaker 2: and so I know that they're lovely. But here's my

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Speaker 2: thing that I find really interesting is sure they're very happy,

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Speaker 2: and I'm sure they're going to go on to be

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Speaker 2: very happy. But it's so interesting to do such as

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Speaker 2: one ady from being a very private person in your

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Speaker 2: love life, because even with all the song lyrics, she's

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Speaker 2: always intensely private, like she when she went out with

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Speaker 2: that what's his name, the one who's not very good

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Speaker 2: actor Joe al Yes, like they went out of their

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Speaker 2: way to barely be photographed together, like silhouettes of him

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Speaker 2: would appear. And then so her and Travis are on stage,

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Speaker 2: they're on each other's podcast, and I think that's wonderful

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Speaker 2: because maybe he's really comfortable with her success. But isn't

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Speaker 2: it a weird relationship? One eighty and then to go,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to direct millions and millions of listeners to

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Speaker 2: this show, Like it's.

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Speaker 3: Just no, because we don't know if that was Taylor's choice, right,

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Speaker 3: Like she did have boyfriends, yes, yes, yes, yes, if

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Speaker 3: that was her choice when it came to Joe Urwiner

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Speaker 3: or other relationships that she had, those relationships didn't work

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Speaker 3: and she's landed with Travis.

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Speaker 2: But they did work for a time, like you know, but.

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Speaker 3: They ultimately ended. And Travis is the first partner of Taylor,

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Speaker 3: who is a sort of an unashamed fanboy.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to pull you up on that. Tom Hitdleston

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Speaker 1: wore the iHeart t s tank.

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Speaker 2: They were pat pictures, so it's different like paparazzi being

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Speaker 2: caught out. Like you know, there are photographs of her

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Speaker 2: with all these people, but most of them are pap

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Speaker 2: Generally speaking, she has tried to keep it very on

302
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Speaker 2: the download and I'm I'm all for evolution, So maybe

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Speaker 2: she's very much like and look at that. That was

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Speaker 2: bullshit and I think of all the wasted energy of

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Speaker 2: not being out and proud and the two of us.

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Speaker 2: But it's just I don't.

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Speaker 3: Know, Okay, I have some pr theories that I have

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Speaker 3: gleaned from the internet. Okay, So she is above doing

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Speaker 3: the circuit, the podcast circuit.

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Speaker 2: Oh obviously hasn't even given anything.

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Speaker 1: That's what they wanted to ask, why this podcast a

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Speaker 1: football podcast as opposed to call her daddy?

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Speaker 3: Well, I reckon that it is about She can obviously

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Speaker 3: do any podcast in the world. She would be most

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Speaker 3: comfortable with Travis. She gets to be candid, but she

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Speaker 3: also gets to have total control, whereas if she were

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Speaker 3: on anyone else's platform, she probably wouldn't. Imagine how reluctant

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Speaker 3: you would be after she has done sort of podcast

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Speaker 3: interviews in the past, like five years ago or so.

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Speaker 3: But we know she controls publicity around her so.

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Speaker 2: Care she would have total control if she went on

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Speaker 2: call her daddy, total control, Like there is no more

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Speaker 2: powerful pop culture figure in the world. We all know

324
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Speaker 2: about Tree Pain, who's her legendary public says too, you

325
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Speaker 2: know what cracks a whip like she could have chosen

326
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Speaker 2: any of them, Dax Mark, they're all blokes, yeah, except

327
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Speaker 2: for Alex.

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Speaker 3: The format of those is long form, and I don't

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Speaker 3: think that Taylor is particularly comfortable doing long form. She

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Speaker 3: gets to decide if this is five or ten or

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Speaker 3: fifth how long do you think it's going to be.

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Speaker 3: I don't think it's going to be an hour. I

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Speaker 3: reckon it's probably going to be like fifteen.

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Speaker 1: I don't think Travis is really into an hour long

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Speaker 1: interview anyone.

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Speaker 3: No, And this is my other theory. Okay, So GQ

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00:16:39,022 --> 00:16:41,582
Speaker 3: interview Travis does talk a little bit about Taylor, and

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Speaker 3: you know, anything he says has been Tree has checked it,

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00:16:44,782 --> 00:16:47,302
Speaker 3: and he's just repeating what he's allowed to say. He

340
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Speaker 3: talked about how Taylor is like an athlete, he's been

341
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Speaker 3: blown away by she walks off stage and he just goes,

342
00:16:54,582 --> 00:16:57,422
Speaker 3: that was an athletic performance. How tired she is afterwards.

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Speaker 3: All of that, which I think is hyping up the

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Speaker 3: album because the album is going to be all about

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Speaker 3: the Eras tour and the Showgirl and blah blah blah. Now,

346
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Speaker 3: why would she go on New Heights because it's her

347
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Speaker 3: boyfriend Theory Hollywayen. Right, there is one thing she's never done.

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Speaker 3: She's never done the super Bowl, right, And she has

349
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Speaker 3: been on the record as saying I want to do

350
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Speaker 3: six albums or something before I do the super Bowl.

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Speaker 3: She was doing the Eras to a few years and

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Speaker 3: years and years.

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Speaker 1: Jesse, I just got chills. And see where you're checking this.

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Speaker 3: There's something about the super Bowl happening next year, something

355
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Speaker 3: about it happening in California, which has some relationship to Orange.

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Speaker 3: I think she's doing the super Bowl.

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Speaker 1: What's the Orange?

358
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Speaker 3: I don't know, Amelia, I don't understand any of the clues.

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Speaker 1: This is such a good theory up until what were

360
00:17:39,182 --> 00:17:40,381
Speaker 1: you through orange.

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00:17:39,982 --> 00:17:41,702
Speaker 3: Into Everything is orange?

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Speaker 2: Now? All right, it's my cynical side. I know it

363
00:17:45,061 --> 00:17:48,462
Speaker 2: is my genic cynical side. Every relationship is a happy

364
00:17:48,542 --> 00:17:52,181
Speaker 2: ending till it isn't. You often regret being quite so

365
00:17:52,302 --> 00:17:54,861
Speaker 2: gushy and open in a relationship who hasn't been there.

366
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Speaker 2: Two years in, you're telling everybody, this is my person.

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Speaker 2: I've never felt more understood. Six months later you're like,

368
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Speaker 2: what did I ever see in that?

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Speaker 5: What?

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00:18:03,581 --> 00:18:06,141
Speaker 3: Like even if they break up tomorrow. It's like she's

371
00:18:06,182 --> 00:18:08,821
Speaker 3: done so many different announcements for albums. Remember last time

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00:18:08,821 --> 00:18:10,741
Speaker 3: she got so much because she did it at the

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Speaker 3: ground Gray and so people went, yeah, you're feeling someone's moment.

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Speaker 3: And then with this one, it's like with your boyfriend.

375
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Speaker 3: I mean, it's just an album.

376
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Speaker 2: That's one hundred percent true. That is one hundred percent true.

377
00:18:20,982 --> 00:18:23,221
Speaker 2: But I think that one of the things that the

378
00:18:23,302 --> 00:18:27,581
Speaker 2: tailor law does is encourages over analyzation. That's the whole point.

379
00:18:27,702 --> 00:18:29,141
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's a walking point for it.

380
00:18:29,302 --> 00:18:32,621
Speaker 2: So it's not like who cares, It's like, there's got

381
00:18:32,621 --> 00:18:32,942
Speaker 2: to be.

382
00:18:32,901 --> 00:18:35,582
Speaker 3: A reason I have one more question familiar, which is,

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Speaker 3: if we go these leaks started yesterday, Tree Pain would

384
00:18:40,381 --> 00:18:43,742
Speaker 3: have been on the phone having a panic attack. Do

385
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Speaker 3: we think that something hasty happened yesterday. Do you think

386
00:18:46,661 --> 00:18:49,502
Speaker 3: that yesterday unfolded like the plan was, or did they

387
00:18:49,542 --> 00:18:51,581
Speaker 3: have to make changes in real time about the kind

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Speaker 3: of announcement.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting because it is her twelfth album, so the

390
00:18:55,621 --> 00:18:58,621
Speaker 1: numerology of it all kind of added up. I looked

391
00:18:58,621 --> 00:19:02,821
Speaker 1: closely at her presentation in the podcast video. She had

392
00:19:02,861 --> 00:19:05,661
Speaker 1: a perfect cat eye, which was interesting. But I imagine

393
00:19:05,661 --> 00:19:07,941
Speaker 1: it's probably not hard for Taylor Swift to rustle up

394
00:19:07,982 --> 00:19:10,061
Speaker 1: and make up artist on short notice, or maybe she's

395
00:19:10,101 --> 00:19:13,141
Speaker 1: even perfected her own cat I. I think she was

396
00:19:13,182 --> 00:19:16,821
Speaker 1: wearing a shirt that she tucked in because she wanted

397
00:19:16,821 --> 00:19:21,981
Speaker 1: to avoid pregnancy speculation as to whether this was planned

398
00:19:22,022 --> 00:19:25,982
Speaker 1: the podcast appearance, she could have done that on the fly.

399
00:19:26,302 --> 00:19:28,662
Speaker 1: They appeared to be home together at one of their

400
00:19:28,661 --> 00:19:32,061
Speaker 1: many mansions in the American Midwest, and it could have

401
00:19:32,141 --> 00:19:34,381
Speaker 1: been something that was pulled together very quickly.

402
00:19:34,381 --> 00:19:37,741
Speaker 3: And maybe that's the reason. Maybe there wasn't time to

403
00:19:37,742 --> 00:19:39,701
Speaker 3: do all the contracts and all of that for call

404
00:19:39,742 --> 00:19:41,221
Speaker 3: her Daddy and they just went screw up. We'll do

405
00:19:41,262 --> 00:19:43,581
Speaker 3: Travis here he is with his microphone.

406
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Speaker 2: I also love that Taylor Swift's version of a chaotic

407
00:19:47,821 --> 00:19:51,381
Speaker 2: album launch would be anybody else's like mastermind quisition.

408
00:19:52,381 --> 00:19:55,061
Speaker 3: I will say one of our content producers is swifty.

409
00:19:55,661 --> 00:19:56,462
Speaker 2: Just show me one.

410
00:19:57,821 --> 00:20:01,141
Speaker 3: There's quite as so many of them, and they're yelling.

411
00:20:01,821 --> 00:20:03,701
Speaker 3: There was an equation on the board yesterday, and I

412
00:20:03,782 --> 00:20:06,902
Speaker 3: still don't understand someone's an equation.

413
00:20:07,061 --> 00:20:08,662
Speaker 1: It's like Russell Crow in a beautiful Wine.

414
00:20:08,742 --> 00:20:12,581
Speaker 3: It's exactly like that the Swifties. And she says that

415
00:20:12,661 --> 00:20:16,302
Speaker 3: the Chief's colors, the Chiefs is who Travis played with

416
00:20:16,422 --> 00:20:19,222
Speaker 3: and he won the Super Bowl. The Chiefs is red

417
00:20:19,302 --> 00:20:23,661
Speaker 3: and yellow. And what do those colors make together? Ladies,

418
00:20:23,901 --> 00:20:25,222
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, it's orange.

419
00:20:25,262 --> 00:20:28,182
Speaker 2: But one question about the Super Bowl. There's no guarantee

420
00:20:28,182 --> 00:20:29,621
Speaker 2: the Chiefs are going to be in the Super Bowl.

421
00:20:29,901 --> 00:20:32,142
Speaker 2: Is it like? If the Chiefs get to the Super Bowl,

422
00:20:33,462 --> 00:20:35,941
Speaker 2: and if the Chiefs do not, she will.

423
00:20:37,302 --> 00:20:37,462
Speaker 1: There.

424
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Speaker 2: The Carpenter could do it.

425
00:20:38,621 --> 00:20:43,462
Speaker 1: There is scarrelous gossip, very scurlous that the Chiefs. It's

426
00:20:43,502 --> 00:20:47,061
Speaker 1: in the NFL's interest, the National Football League's interest, to

427
00:20:47,182 --> 00:20:48,982
Speaker 1: make sure that the Chiefs get to the Super Bowl.

428
00:20:49,462 --> 00:20:51,701
Speaker 1: They have made it to the Super Bowl two of

429
00:20:51,742 --> 00:20:54,621
Speaker 1: the last two Super Bowls. I'm just leaving that there.

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Speaker 1: In a moment, I break down some of the big

431
00:20:57,141 --> 00:20:58,702
Speaker 1: stories happening in the world this week.

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Speaker 2: You might have noticed that there is a lot going

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00:21:04,901 --> 00:21:06,821
Speaker 2: on in the world at the moment, and there is

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00:21:06,861 --> 00:21:10,422
Speaker 2: a lot going on specifically in foreign policy. Now, our

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00:21:10,502 --> 00:21:13,542
Speaker 2: Amelia Lester has a day job. Do you know what

436
00:21:13,542 --> 00:21:14,621
Speaker 2: it is, Jesse Stephens.

437
00:21:14,661 --> 00:21:19,581
Speaker 3: She is a boss lady at a place called Foreign

438
00:21:19,621 --> 00:21:20,942
Speaker 3: Policy Holly Wainwright.

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00:21:21,101 --> 00:21:25,262
Speaker 2: She is an editor there. Yes, we often ask Amelia

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00:21:25,302 --> 00:21:27,461
Speaker 2: to explain things to us, to break things down for us,

441
00:21:27,502 --> 00:21:29,462
Speaker 2: and we thought it would be great to do that

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00:21:29,581 --> 00:21:32,141
Speaker 2: on the show this week. Complicated stuff gone on in

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00:21:32,182 --> 00:21:34,101
Speaker 2: the world. We asked, Amelia, can you get us across

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00:21:34,141 --> 00:21:35,501
Speaker 2: it in five minutes?

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00:21:36,022 --> 00:21:37,661
Speaker 3: And I should tell you, Amelia the other day I

446
00:21:37,661 --> 00:21:39,621
Speaker 3: was reading the Substack and it was referring to it

447
00:21:39,702 --> 00:21:42,221
Speaker 3: was giving an example of like, you know, I'm not

448
00:21:42,422 --> 00:21:45,861
Speaker 3: blah as in some really smart you know publication, and

449
00:21:45,901 --> 00:21:50,422
Speaker 3: it said foreign policy and she is actually really smart.

450
00:21:50,542 --> 00:21:53,101
Speaker 1: Yeah, there is certainly a lot going on in foreign

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00:21:53,182 --> 00:21:55,581
Speaker 1: policy around the world at the moment. Too much for

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00:21:55,621 --> 00:21:59,022
Speaker 1: five minutes, But there are three big stories that I

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00:21:59,022 --> 00:22:01,261
Speaker 1: want to get you across in the next five minutes.

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00:22:01,542 --> 00:22:06,262
Speaker 1: Here goes. On Monday, Anthony Albanezi joined France and Canada

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00:22:06,302 --> 00:22:09,182
Speaker 1: in announcing that Australia was going to recognize the state

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00:22:09,222 --> 00:22:12,222
Speaker 1: of Palestine. This is going to happen at next month's

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00:22:12,341 --> 00:22:15,662
Speaker 1: United Nations General Assembly in New York. Now, look, what's

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00:22:15,702 --> 00:22:17,621
Speaker 1: interesting is that seventy five percent of countries in the

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00:22:17,621 --> 00:22:21,382
Speaker 1: world already recognized Palestine as a state. But what's been

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00:22:21,422 --> 00:22:24,222
Speaker 1: happening in the last few weeks is that these Western countries,

461
00:22:24,262 --> 00:22:27,221
Speaker 1: including Australia, have been getting on board with this. And

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00:22:27,262 --> 00:22:30,622
Speaker 1: it's a sign of how much international opinion has shifted

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00:22:30,661 --> 00:22:33,861
Speaker 1: on Israel in recent weeks. Okay, next, I have a

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00:22:33,942 --> 00:22:36,861
Speaker 1: Chump update. It's been seven months since he was inaugurated,

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00:22:36,942 --> 00:22:40,021
Speaker 1: and a lot of the discussion I've noticed around in

466
00:22:40,061 --> 00:22:42,621
Speaker 1: the American left has been revolving around this idea of

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00:22:42,942 --> 00:22:45,542
Speaker 1: how bad are things and how bad are things going

468
00:22:45,581 --> 00:22:47,542
Speaker 1: to get. That's where a lot of the conversation is

469
00:22:47,621 --> 00:22:51,302
Speaker 1: right now in terms of Trump's kind of authoritarian tendencies.

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00:22:51,901 --> 00:22:55,702
Speaker 1: Last week, I was really startled because the TV host

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00:22:55,821 --> 00:22:59,542
Speaker 1: Rachel Maddow called it. She said that the United States

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00:22:59,742 --> 00:23:03,502
Speaker 1: is now a consolidating dictatorship. So let's listen to what

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00:23:03,542 --> 00:23:04,182
Speaker 1: she had to say.

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00:23:04,621 --> 00:23:07,542
Speaker 5: Life has not stopped, and none of our personal lives

475
00:23:07,542 --> 00:23:10,341
Speaker 5: have stopped. But also at the same time, life in

476
00:23:10,381 --> 00:23:14,901
Speaker 5: the United States is profoundly changing, is profoundly different than

477
00:23:14,942 --> 00:23:18,581
Speaker 5: it was even six months ago, because we do now

478
00:23:18,661 --> 00:23:22,421
Speaker 5: live in a country that has an authoritarian leader in charge.

479
00:23:22,581 --> 00:23:25,661
Speaker 1: So matdaw is very much, i should say, a liberal commentator.

480
00:23:25,702 --> 00:23:28,542
Speaker 1: She is very much on the left. But the evidence

481
00:23:28,581 --> 00:23:30,661
Speaker 1: that she gathered for that claim and giving it that

482
00:23:30,861 --> 00:23:33,742
Speaker 1: name was really compelling. She was pointing to, for instance,

483
00:23:33,821 --> 00:23:38,101
Speaker 1: Trump's secret police forces, immigrations and Customs enforcement agents who

484
00:23:38,101 --> 00:23:39,901
Speaker 1: go around scapegoading immigrants.

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00:23:40,182 --> 00:23:40,782
Speaker 3: That's ice.

486
00:23:41,022 --> 00:23:44,022
Speaker 1: That's ice. Yep. So that was last week. But if

487
00:23:44,061 --> 00:23:46,141
Speaker 1: she'd been doing the segment this week, she could have

488
00:23:46,222 --> 00:23:49,782
Speaker 1: mentioned another new development, which is that Trump authorized what

489
00:23:49,901 --> 00:23:52,861
Speaker 1: is essentially a federal takeover of the capital of Washington,

490
00:23:52,942 --> 00:23:53,181
Speaker 1: d C.

491
00:23:53,341 --> 00:23:55,662
Speaker 3: Okay, I've seen those headlines. What does that mean?

492
00:23:55,901 --> 00:23:57,982
Speaker 1: Yeah, So this is personal for me because I lived

493
00:23:57,982 --> 00:24:00,502
Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. For many years. It is my

494
00:24:00,742 --> 00:24:03,461
Speaker 1: United States home. People in Washington, d C are not

495
00:24:03,462 --> 00:24:05,742
Speaker 1: happy about it. Basically, what he did is he mobilized

496
00:24:05,742 --> 00:24:08,061
Speaker 1: the National Guard, which is a branch of the military

497
00:24:08,101 --> 00:24:11,621
Speaker 1: that's meant to look after national emergencies. There's a flood somewhere,

498
00:24:11,661 --> 00:24:13,581
Speaker 1: there's an earthquake somewhere, They're going to be there to

499
00:24:13,661 --> 00:24:14,141
Speaker 1: help out.

500
00:24:14,581 --> 00:24:16,742
Speaker 2: And was this in response to anything in particular.

501
00:24:16,942 --> 00:24:21,302
Speaker 1: No, he said that DC was full of filth and scum,

502
00:24:21,581 --> 00:24:24,821
Speaker 1: and he used inaccurate crime statistics to prove his point

503
00:24:24,861 --> 00:24:26,702
Speaker 1: that DC was kind of a hell hole.

504
00:24:26,782 --> 00:24:29,382
Speaker 2: That when he said filth and scum, he meant human beings.

505
00:24:29,782 --> 00:24:33,462
Speaker 1: Yes, So, finally the world is going to be watching

506
00:24:33,502 --> 00:24:36,782
Speaker 1: what's happening in Alaska. On Friday, Big deal. Trump is

507
00:24:36,821 --> 00:24:39,662
Speaker 1: going to be meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin. There

508
00:24:40,341 --> 00:24:43,901
Speaker 1: it's Trump's seventh in person meeting with Putin. That's seven

509
00:24:43,942 --> 00:24:46,621
Speaker 1: more times than he's met with Anthony Albanisi. Trump and

510
00:24:46,621 --> 00:24:49,182
Speaker 1: Putin are meant to be hammering out a peace deal

511
00:24:49,262 --> 00:24:53,422
Speaker 1: on Ukraine, which Russia invaded in February of twenty twenty three.

512
00:24:53,821 --> 00:24:59,101
Speaker 1: They haven't invited Ukraine's president Vladimir Zelenski, and Zelenski and

513
00:24:59,302 --> 00:25:02,542
Speaker 1: European leaders are really worried about what Putin and Trump

514
00:25:02,581 --> 00:25:04,341
Speaker 1: are going to discuss here and what terms they're going

515
00:25:04,341 --> 00:25:06,702
Speaker 1: to put on this so called peace deal, especially since

516
00:25:06,702 --> 00:25:08,901
Speaker 1: both Trump and Putin have been talking about the idea

517
00:25:08,901 --> 00:25:11,181
Speaker 1: of a lance op Zwanski doesn't want a land swap.

518
00:25:11,222 --> 00:25:13,222
Speaker 1: He doesn't want any Russian land. He doesn't want Russia

519
00:25:13,262 --> 00:25:17,542
Speaker 1: taking Ukrainian land. Putin, though, is a very devious man.

520
00:25:17,621 --> 00:25:20,702
Speaker 1: He is a former KGB agent. He knows a lot

521
00:25:20,742 --> 00:25:23,101
Speaker 1: about how to push people's buttons. He's shown that he

522
00:25:23,141 --> 00:25:26,661
Speaker 1: can manipulate Trump time and time again. He famously, I

523
00:25:26,702 --> 00:25:28,662
Speaker 1: don't know if you remember this, but one time when

524
00:25:28,661 --> 00:25:31,661
Speaker 1: he was meeting with the former German leader Angela Merkle,

525
00:25:32,141 --> 00:25:35,181
Speaker 1: he had a dog wander into the meeting. Merkle is

526
00:25:35,222 --> 00:25:38,422
Speaker 1: famously scared of dogs, and she visibly tensed up when

527
00:25:38,462 --> 00:25:41,782
Speaker 1: this large dog came in and wandered around her ankles

528
00:25:41,782 --> 00:25:44,381
Speaker 1: for no reason, and it really did put her on

529
00:25:44,502 --> 00:25:46,302
Speaker 1: the back book in the negotiations.

530
00:25:46,422 --> 00:25:48,222
Speaker 2: He doesn't even like dogs.

531
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Speaker 1: So Trump, I think, is pretty inclined to go along

532
00:25:51,821 --> 00:25:54,341
Speaker 1: with what Putin has to say anyway, But I'm sort

533
00:25:54,381 --> 00:25:57,902
Speaker 1: of wondering what Putin is going to bring to scare Trump?

534
00:25:58,302 --> 00:26:01,302
Speaker 1: Is he going to bring a salad or maybe a

535
00:26:01,341 --> 00:26:07,861
Speaker 1: climate scientist or what about an older woman climate scientist.

536
00:26:07,502 --> 00:26:11,821
Speaker 3: Over the age of thirty five. I was thinking Putin

537
00:26:12,141 --> 00:26:15,461
Speaker 3: might bring a cold the flu, because isn't he a

538
00:26:15,542 --> 00:26:18,502
Speaker 3: germified so just with a real dirty hand.

539
00:26:18,302 --> 00:26:21,222
Speaker 1: And he hasn't gotten his flu vaccine, we can almost.

540
00:26:21,542 --> 00:26:25,861
Speaker 3: I also wondered some reading material, imagine Trump's reaction to

541
00:26:25,901 --> 00:26:28,381
Speaker 3: that and the other thing I went, what would really

542
00:26:28,381 --> 00:26:31,181
Speaker 3: scare him? I'll never forget this when Trump said that

543
00:26:31,302 --> 00:26:33,421
Speaker 3: humans are built like batteries and if we exercise too

544
00:26:33,502 --> 00:26:36,222
Speaker 3: much will run out, Like he worries about exercise because

545
00:26:36,222 --> 00:26:39,022
Speaker 3: he doesn't. He doesn't because he thinks it's bad for help.

546
00:26:39,542 --> 00:26:42,061
Speaker 3: So I'm thinking, like if he brought a treadmill or

547
00:26:42,141 --> 00:26:44,742
Speaker 3: like weights, or like what about if.

548
00:26:44,621 --> 00:26:46,341
Speaker 1: He turned it into you know how there was this

549
00:26:46,381 --> 00:26:49,421
Speaker 1: trend for walking meetings years ago, was like, let's take

550
00:26:49,422 --> 00:26:50,462
Speaker 1: a walk around Alaska.

551
00:26:50,661 --> 00:26:52,741
Speaker 3: Yeah, be terrified.

552
00:26:53,061 --> 00:26:55,222
Speaker 2: After that rundown, I'm like, no wonder people are doing

553
00:26:55,262 --> 00:26:59,101
Speaker 2: equations about when Taylor fucking album is coming out next?

554
00:27:00,222 --> 00:27:01,022
Speaker 3: After the break?

555
00:27:01,341 --> 00:27:05,742
Speaker 2: Should children be allowed in public spaces like at all? Ever?

556
00:27:06,502 --> 00:27:10,302
Speaker 2: Vigorous debate about sport, restaurants, pubs.

557
00:27:10,901 --> 00:27:14,862
Speaker 3: One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday

558
00:27:14,901 --> 00:27:19,381
Speaker 3: and Thursday exclusively for Muma Mea subscribers. Follow the link

559
00:27:19,422 --> 00:27:21,421
Speaker 3: in the show notes to get us in your ears

560
00:27:21,502 --> 00:27:24,101
Speaker 3: five days a week. And a huge thank you to

561
00:27:24,182 --> 00:27:25,502
Speaker 3: all our current subscribers.

562
00:27:31,061 --> 00:27:32,462
Speaker 2: Okay, over to tennis News.

563
00:27:33,861 --> 00:27:35,101
Speaker 3: I like tennis news.

564
00:27:35,182 --> 00:27:38,261
Speaker 2: I know you do. You are a tennis correspondent and

565
00:27:38,302 --> 00:27:40,502
Speaker 2: I will be relying on your knowledge. Healy here, just

566
00:27:40,542 --> 00:27:42,381
Speaker 2: as we were relying on a Melia Leicester for the

567
00:27:42,422 --> 00:27:45,782
Speaker 2: Taylor Swift knowledge. Twenty two year old British tennis player

568
00:27:45,861 --> 00:27:49,782
Speaker 2: Emma Radakanu was playing a match against Arena A Saberlenka

569
00:27:49,821 --> 00:27:51,821
Speaker 2: at the Cincinnati Open in the Land of the Free

570
00:27:51,821 --> 00:27:55,581
Speaker 2: this week. She was losing and during a crucial point

571
00:27:55,621 --> 00:27:58,461
Speaker 2: in the third set, a child in the crowd started crying.

572
00:27:59,141 --> 00:28:02,662
Speaker 2: After a while, Radikannu gestures to the umpire like, you're

573
00:28:02,661 --> 00:28:05,302
Speaker 2: always saying quiet please, So what about this bullshit? Then?

574
00:28:05,861 --> 00:28:07,941
Speaker 2: And this is what happened. This is what the umpire

575
00:28:07,982 --> 00:28:11,661
Speaker 2: said back, it's a child.

576
00:28:11,782 --> 00:28:13,302
Speaker 1: Do you want me to send the child out of

577
00:28:13,341 --> 00:28:13,942
Speaker 1: the stadium.

578
00:28:16,901 --> 00:28:19,182
Speaker 2: What you can hear there is the crowd or saying, yes,

579
00:28:19,661 --> 00:28:22,542
Speaker 2: kick the baby out, and they all applauded, and Emma

580
00:28:22,661 --> 00:28:24,341
Speaker 2: was kind of I shouldn't say it, but she was

581
00:28:24,381 --> 00:28:26,742
Speaker 2: kind of like shrugging, like, yeah, kick the baby out.

582
00:28:27,222 --> 00:28:30,022
Speaker 2: Details a sketchy on what actually happened next, but Emma

583
00:28:30,141 --> 00:28:33,861
Speaker 2: did lose the match. Jesse, should the kid have been

584
00:28:33,901 --> 00:28:35,741
Speaker 2: at the tennis match in the first place.

585
00:28:36,422 --> 00:28:39,741
Speaker 3: I am on the record as saying that kids and

586
00:28:39,742 --> 00:28:42,622
Speaker 3: babies everywhere let them in. I remember we talked about

587
00:28:42,661 --> 00:28:47,222
Speaker 3: a comedy show we go well, oh me. I think

588
00:28:47,262 --> 00:28:50,302
Speaker 3: that it's really important because where kids don't allowed, their

589
00:28:50,342 --> 00:28:55,222
Speaker 3: parents aren't allowed either. But in this case and how

590
00:28:55,222 --> 00:28:57,941
Speaker 3: it works in tennis is this was a really critical point.

591
00:28:58,102 --> 00:29:01,662
Speaker 3: This was a really important moment in the match. And

592
00:29:02,142 --> 00:29:06,221
Speaker 3: what actually should have happened is that umpire should have

593
00:29:06,702 --> 00:29:09,422
Speaker 3: sorted that out, like it's their job to keep quiet,

594
00:29:09,661 --> 00:29:12,502
Speaker 3: keep everything quiet. I think the important context is that

595
00:29:12,542 --> 00:29:14,542
Speaker 3: wasn't a baby squawking. It wasn't a baby who had

596
00:29:14,542 --> 00:29:17,221
Speaker 3: cried for thirty seconds. It was a baby who had

597
00:29:17,222 --> 00:29:19,622
Speaker 3: been crying for ten minutes, according to reports, and it

598
00:29:19,661 --> 00:29:21,462
Speaker 3: was kind of starting and stopping and starting and stopping,

599
00:29:21,502 --> 00:29:25,262
Speaker 3: and she was finding it really distracting. Now a tennis match,

600
00:29:25,502 --> 00:29:28,582
Speaker 3: if there are people walking around, if a phone is

601
00:29:28,622 --> 00:29:31,342
Speaker 3: going off, like there are signs everywhere at tennis saying

602
00:29:31,462 --> 00:29:34,142
Speaker 3: turn your phones off. There have been cases where someone's

603
00:29:34,142 --> 00:29:37,022
Speaker 3: wearing a watch and the watch is distracting to the

604
00:29:37,022 --> 00:29:38,582
Speaker 3: person who's about to serve, and they ask them to

605
00:29:38,582 --> 00:29:41,701
Speaker 3: take the watch off, Like that is how the sport works.

606
00:29:41,822 --> 00:29:44,062
Speaker 2: Yeah, but isn't that changing because I feel like we've

607
00:29:44,062 --> 00:29:46,342
Speaker 2: discussed this a lot that you know, at Wimbledon now

608
00:29:46,342 --> 00:29:48,461
Speaker 2: at the Australian Open, now, people get up and go

609
00:29:48,462 --> 00:29:50,941
Speaker 2: to the bar, people cheer, people cheer, and there's been

610
00:29:50,942 --> 00:29:53,542
Speaker 2: a lot of yeah, lighting up everybody, like we can't

611
00:29:53,582 --> 00:29:55,582
Speaker 2: expect people to sit in silence anymore.

612
00:29:56,262 --> 00:30:00,941
Speaker 3: Well, apparently, what they ordinarily do is make sure that

613
00:30:01,022 --> 00:30:02,941
Speaker 3: if you have young kids with you, they sit you

614
00:30:02,982 --> 00:30:06,462
Speaker 3: near the exit. So there's an understanding that if the

615
00:30:06,542 --> 00:30:08,702
Speaker 3: child starts making noise, then you move out.

616
00:30:08,822 --> 00:30:10,741
Speaker 2: At Wimbledon, the like kids under five in.

617
00:30:10,902 --> 00:30:12,822
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I can understand that because of the nature

618
00:30:12,822 --> 00:30:14,662
Speaker 3: of the match. So I actually am on the side

619
00:30:14,702 --> 00:30:16,862
Speaker 3: of the tennis player here. I think that the umpire

620
00:30:16,862 --> 00:30:19,542
Speaker 3: probably should have sorted it or someone in the crowd.

621
00:30:19,742 --> 00:30:21,941
Speaker 3: But in defense of the mother or father who is

622
00:30:21,982 --> 00:30:24,342
Speaker 3: with that child. The other thing you're not really meant

623
00:30:24,382 --> 00:30:28,022
Speaker 3: to do during tenths tennis matches is move It's really distracting.

624
00:30:28,102 --> 00:30:30,782
Speaker 3: So often an umpire will turn around and go, can

625
00:30:30,822 --> 00:30:32,622
Speaker 3: you sit down, because they're trying to serve and there's

626
00:30:32,622 --> 00:30:35,421
Speaker 3: all this movement, So they might have just been like, oh,

627
00:30:35,502 --> 00:30:36,981
Speaker 3: I don't know whether I'm meant to move or not.

628
00:30:37,702 --> 00:30:40,102
Speaker 3: But I do think and this is just common sense, right.

629
00:30:40,222 --> 00:30:42,342
Speaker 3: I think sometimes we treat parents as though they have

630
00:30:42,382 --> 00:30:45,261
Speaker 3: no self awareness about any context or environment. It's like

631
00:30:46,222 --> 00:30:48,582
Speaker 3: I've brought I remember having to take her to a

632
00:30:48,622 --> 00:30:51,742
Speaker 3: premiere for something. Babysitter fell through the second she started

633
00:30:52,062 --> 00:30:54,182
Speaker 3: and she got upset. It was just you get her out.

634
00:30:54,302 --> 00:30:55,981
Speaker 3: In the same way that if I was sitting at

635
00:30:55,982 --> 00:30:58,302
Speaker 3: the tennis and I had a coughing fit, I would go, oh,

636
00:30:58,382 --> 00:31:00,102
Speaker 3: I'm going to get out, because I am just aware

637
00:31:00,102 --> 00:31:02,781
Speaker 3: of everyone else. So I think that the media has

638
00:31:02,782 --> 00:31:06,422
Speaker 3: tried to drum this up as like, ooh, hostility towards kids.

639
00:31:06,422 --> 00:31:08,102
Speaker 3: I don't think that's what it is. I'm actually on

640
00:31:08,102 --> 00:31:10,262
Speaker 3: the side of the tennis player, do you think, Amelia.

641
00:31:10,382 --> 00:31:13,902
Speaker 1: I think that there is this encroaching hostility towards kids.

642
00:31:13,982 --> 00:31:18,622
Speaker 1: And I was reading the comments section on stories around

643
00:31:18,622 --> 00:31:21,742
Speaker 1: this tennis story, and people were like, this is how

644
00:31:21,742 --> 00:31:25,622
Speaker 1: I feel on planes. And I wonder if there's a

645
00:31:25,702 --> 00:31:31,021
Speaker 1: distinction to be made between spaces where children kind of

646
00:31:31,102 --> 00:31:33,421
Speaker 1: have to be if they're going to be living their lives,

647
00:31:33,502 --> 00:31:37,182
Speaker 1: and that includes going to airports and you know, supermarkets

648
00:31:37,222 --> 00:31:39,622
Speaker 1: other places where you have to go. And I do

649
00:31:39,661 --> 00:31:42,262
Speaker 1: think there's an argument to be made that maybe children

650
00:31:42,782 --> 00:31:47,742
Speaker 1: shouldn't be in more optional spaces like a tennis match.

651
00:31:47,822 --> 00:31:52,302
Speaker 3: I wonder though, if they're allowed, if the venue is

652
00:31:52,382 --> 00:31:55,181
Speaker 3: open to them being there, then like I've gone to

653
00:31:55,622 --> 00:31:58,422
Speaker 3: comedy shows or theater things, and there's a certain age

654
00:31:58,622 --> 00:32:02,181
Speaker 3: bracket of when you can go. But look, would I

655
00:32:02,422 --> 00:32:04,302
Speaker 3: take Lunar at that. I think that she would find

656
00:32:04,342 --> 00:32:06,302
Speaker 3: it really boring. Apparently it was really really hot. It's

657
00:32:06,382 --> 00:32:07,262
Speaker 3: very long thing.

658
00:32:07,542 --> 00:32:09,941
Speaker 1: I hate the idea of setting kids up to fail.

659
00:32:10,542 --> 00:32:13,501
Speaker 1: And part of the reason why I prefer not to

660
00:32:13,542 --> 00:32:16,382
Speaker 1: take my children to restaurants, even though I know lots

661
00:32:16,422 --> 00:32:18,502
Speaker 1: of people who think it's a very important life skill

662
00:32:18,622 --> 00:32:21,542
Speaker 1: for children to acquire, is because I just think it's

663
00:32:21,542 --> 00:32:23,582
Speaker 1: setting them up to fail. You're taking them to a

664
00:32:23,582 --> 00:32:25,422
Speaker 1: place where, as you said, at the tennis they can't

665
00:32:25,422 --> 00:32:28,062
Speaker 1: even move like that. Don't take children to a place

666
00:32:28,062 --> 00:32:30,181
Speaker 1: where they can't move. At a restaurant, they're forced to

667
00:32:30,182 --> 00:32:33,582
Speaker 1: sit down and order off a menu of things that

668
00:32:33,622 --> 00:32:37,462
Speaker 1: probably doesn't include mac and cheese, and you know, speak

669
00:32:37,542 --> 00:32:39,461
Speaker 1: in an indoor voice and all these things which I

670
00:32:39,462 --> 00:32:41,422
Speaker 1: guess children should be learning how to do, but which

671
00:32:41,422 --> 00:32:43,382
Speaker 1: they're not always equipped to do at the end of

672
00:32:43,382 --> 00:32:43,902
Speaker 1: a long day.

673
00:32:43,942 --> 00:32:47,742
Speaker 2: But what do you call a restaurant? Right? Because I

674
00:32:47,822 --> 00:32:50,941
Speaker 2: sympathize with you if I'm paying lots of money to

675
00:32:50,982 --> 00:32:53,382
Speaker 2: sit in a rarefied room, you know what I mean,

676
00:32:53,502 --> 00:32:59,942
Speaker 2: like some kind of fancy, very adulty space. But increasingly cafes, restaurants,

677
00:33:00,022 --> 00:33:02,941
Speaker 2: pubs with beer gardens, all those kind of things cater

678
00:33:03,062 --> 00:33:05,302
Speaker 2: to kits like they do, so surely that's fine.

679
00:33:05,382 --> 00:33:07,941
Speaker 1: Well, that's actually a really interesting question around pubs because

680
00:33:07,942 --> 00:33:11,302
Speaker 1: that's a very much live issue in Australia right now.

681
00:33:11,422 --> 00:33:14,622
Speaker 1: And what I didn't realize is how recent a phenomenon

682
00:33:14,661 --> 00:33:16,262
Speaker 1: it is to take children to pubs. Do you know

683
00:33:16,302 --> 00:33:18,942
Speaker 1: It wasn't until two thousand and seven that New South

684
00:33:18,942 --> 00:33:22,182
Speaker 1: Wales made it technically legal to take children.

685
00:33:21,902 --> 00:33:24,102
Speaker 3: Into really, because there used to be a thing I

686
00:33:24,142 --> 00:33:26,142
Speaker 3: remember when I was growing up, when I was a kid,

687
00:33:26,502 --> 00:33:29,382
Speaker 3: if we were ever at a pub, then it was

688
00:33:29,422 --> 00:33:30,862
Speaker 3: like there was an area you couldn't cross.

689
00:33:31,062 --> 00:33:35,221
Speaker 2: Do you remember that? And also children can't go near

690
00:33:35,262 --> 00:33:35,502
Speaker 2: the bar.

691
00:33:35,702 --> 00:33:38,742
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, But a lot of pub owners are sort

692
00:33:38,782 --> 00:33:41,782
Speaker 1: of saying that they've gone too far in making them

693
00:33:41,782 --> 00:33:45,742
Speaker 1: to children friendly to family friendly, because when adults drink,

694
00:33:45,902 --> 00:33:48,782
Speaker 1: they don't become responsible parents and their kids are running

695
00:33:48,822 --> 00:33:51,942
Speaker 1: around this space that really was designed for adults, and

696
00:33:51,982 --> 00:33:54,261
Speaker 1: the parents are taking their eyes off the ball, so

697
00:33:54,302 --> 00:33:57,742
Speaker 1: to speak. And I was curious about whether we think

698
00:33:57,782 --> 00:34:00,262
Speaker 1: it's a good idea in terms of what we're teaching

699
00:34:00,382 --> 00:34:03,742
Speaker 1: children about. Look, I have to be honest, every Monday

700
00:34:03,822 --> 00:34:06,862
Speaker 1: night in my neighborhood the pub has kids eat free

701
00:34:07,542 --> 00:34:10,261
Speaker 1: and it is a huge social scene and I go

702
00:34:10,302 --> 00:34:14,342
Speaker 1: there every Monday. This is very much me interrogating my

703
00:34:14,422 --> 00:34:16,741
Speaker 1: own patterns here. But it turns out that there is

704
00:34:16,782 --> 00:34:19,622
Speaker 1: this new study from Australian researchers that makes the claim

705
00:34:19,661 --> 00:34:22,261
Speaker 1: that the more time kids spend at pubs I want

706
00:34:22,261 --> 00:34:24,341
Speaker 1: to get the wording here exactly right, the higher the

707
00:34:24,422 --> 00:34:27,102
Speaker 1: risks they face from alcohol in the future. And that's

708
00:34:27,181 --> 00:34:30,661
Speaker 1: essentially because one it's glorified advertising for alcohol. You see

709
00:34:30,661 --> 00:34:32,582
Speaker 1: your parents out at the pub, they're having fun. You

710
00:34:32,622 --> 00:34:35,661
Speaker 1: think alcohol's fun. And two it sends a longer term

711
00:34:35,661 --> 00:34:39,062
Speaker 1: message that it norms alcohol and the use of alcohol.

712
00:34:39,142 --> 00:34:42,221
Speaker 1: It says that when adults get together, they drink. And

713
00:34:42,261 --> 00:34:44,862
Speaker 1: when I read that, I felt sad about my Monday evenings.

714
00:34:45,062 --> 00:34:48,861
Speaker 2: Oh no, I'm here to defend your Monday evenings with

715
00:34:48,982 --> 00:34:54,781
Speaker 2: my life because I accept all that. But the thing is,

716
00:34:54,822 --> 00:34:57,301
Speaker 2: and this certainly isn't true for everybody. Like Australia is

717
00:34:57,342 --> 00:34:59,622
Speaker 2: a very multicultural society, and there are lots of sections

718
00:34:59,661 --> 00:35:02,781
Speaker 2: of Australia where alcohol is not a part of all socializing,

719
00:35:03,221 --> 00:35:07,342
Speaker 2: but there is in the mainstream norm alcohol is legal.

720
00:35:07,382 --> 00:35:10,022
Speaker 2: When you're over eighteen, you're allowed to drink. Response. We

721
00:35:10,062 --> 00:35:12,342
Speaker 2: have some very strict rules that govern around that and

722
00:35:12,342 --> 00:35:14,182
Speaker 2: who can be served in pubs and all those things

723
00:35:14,221 --> 00:35:16,942
Speaker 2: stricter than in some other places in the world. So

724
00:35:17,261 --> 00:35:21,821
Speaker 2: there's also an argument that children seeing parents drink responsibly

725
00:35:21,902 --> 00:35:24,502
Speaker 2: is not the end of the world. Right. So for myself,

726
00:35:24,622 --> 00:35:26,661
Speaker 2: if I know when it's particularly when I lived in

727
00:35:26,701 --> 00:35:28,422
Speaker 2: the city, I don't live in the city anymore. But

728
00:35:28,462 --> 00:35:30,502
Speaker 2: for all the time that my kids were young, I

729
00:35:30,542 --> 00:35:33,502
Speaker 2: lived in an area of the town where me and

730
00:35:33,622 --> 00:35:36,302
Speaker 2: all my friends lived in small units that didn't have gardens,

731
00:35:36,342 --> 00:35:39,301
Speaker 2: that didn't have We couldn't have each other around, you

732
00:35:39,382 --> 00:35:41,261
Speaker 2: know what I mean. That isn't what happened, And that's

733
00:35:41,261 --> 00:35:43,502
Speaker 2: not even an of course not there was not a dinta.

734
00:35:43,542 --> 00:35:45,702
Speaker 2: It's not any of that stuff. So we would meet

735
00:35:45,781 --> 00:35:47,942
Speaker 2: in public spaces, and we met in parks, and we

736
00:35:47,942 --> 00:35:50,222
Speaker 2: met in cafes, and we met in pubs, no question.

737
00:35:50,781 --> 00:35:53,142
Speaker 2: And sometimes now I cringe a little bit at some

738
00:35:53,221 --> 00:35:55,582
Speaker 2: of the places I took my kids to. But I

739
00:35:55,622 --> 00:35:58,221
Speaker 2: had no family support, I had no you know, official

740
00:35:58,342 --> 00:36:02,181
Speaker 2: baby cities, like we were our community, and the kids

741
00:36:02,221 --> 00:36:05,822
Speaker 2: went where we went, right And I went to bowling

742
00:36:05,862 --> 00:36:07,861
Speaker 2: clubs where the kids would run a mark like they

743
00:36:07,942 --> 00:36:10,821
Speaker 2: really would and they'd have a great time. And we

744
00:36:10,862 --> 00:36:13,662
Speaker 2: went to beer guns were set up for that, pubs

745
00:36:13,661 --> 00:36:16,262
Speaker 2: that had playgrounds, all of those things. And in England,

746
00:36:16,261 --> 00:36:19,502
Speaker 2: which obviously is where I grew up, although that wasn't

747
00:36:19,542 --> 00:36:22,021
Speaker 2: necessarily the norm when I was a kid, but they're now,

748
00:36:22,221 --> 00:36:25,142
Speaker 2: like lots of pubs have big play areas and it's

749
00:36:25,261 --> 00:36:28,342
Speaker 2: very much encouraged. And the reason for that is because

750
00:36:28,342 --> 00:36:31,502
Speaker 2: the publicans are making money. It's because of food. You

751
00:36:31,542 --> 00:36:34,781
Speaker 2: introduce food into an establishment like that. Pubs once upon

752
00:36:34,822 --> 00:36:37,062
Speaker 2: a time are just the preserve of men, working class

753
00:36:37,062 --> 00:36:40,301
Speaker 2: men broadly speaking, and women bust their way into those

754
00:36:40,781 --> 00:36:42,902
Speaker 2: front bars and snugs over a while and said I

755
00:36:42,942 --> 00:36:45,262
Speaker 2: want to be and then they bought their bloody kids.

756
00:36:46,181 --> 00:36:48,742
Speaker 2: And I think in a way I would never argue

757
00:36:48,942 --> 00:36:50,942
Speaker 2: for oh, I think it's great for kids to see

758
00:36:51,102 --> 00:36:54,381
Speaker 2: their parents drinking. I am very aware of how problematic

759
00:36:54,902 --> 00:36:59,582
Speaker 2: our over acceptance of alcohol is in social situations. But

760
00:36:59,701 --> 00:37:01,902
Speaker 2: I think, as you said at the beginning, Jesse, the

761
00:37:01,942 --> 00:37:05,622
Speaker 2: more places where children aren't welcome, the more isolated parents are.

762
00:37:05,942 --> 00:37:08,062
Speaker 2: I would say it's even different now where I live

763
00:37:08,422 --> 00:37:10,901
Speaker 2: in a regional area and much more suburban environment. There

764
00:37:10,902 --> 00:37:13,582
Speaker 2: are more options for how you get together with people.

765
00:37:13,942 --> 00:37:16,942
Speaker 2: There's more space. There are also clubs, which places that

766
00:37:16,982 --> 00:37:18,861
Speaker 2: often you never go to until you have kids, and

767
00:37:18,902 --> 00:37:21,142
Speaker 2: you go there because they're very often open to kids, right,

768
00:37:21,181 --> 00:37:23,342
Speaker 2: And they'll have a green space and they'll have a

769
00:37:23,382 --> 00:37:25,622
Speaker 2: green space and they've designed it that way because they

770
00:37:25,661 --> 00:37:27,781
Speaker 2: want you to spend your money there. And at least

771
00:37:27,781 --> 00:37:29,942
Speaker 2: it's a communal place where people are getting together. So

772
00:37:30,542 --> 00:37:33,422
Speaker 2: the more places kids can't come, the more isolated I am.

773
00:37:33,462 --> 00:37:35,582
Speaker 2: I would have been at home alone.

774
00:37:35,822 --> 00:37:39,142
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's sometimes the only option where you don't

775
00:37:39,142 --> 00:37:41,181
Speaker 3: have to cook and clean, and that's the kind of

776
00:37:41,261 --> 00:37:43,701
Speaker 3: relief for a you know, mum or dad. But I

777
00:37:43,741 --> 00:37:46,942
Speaker 3: also find the cultural difference as a point of tension

778
00:37:46,982 --> 00:37:49,661
Speaker 3: because I know people who have gone overseas and expected

779
00:37:49,701 --> 00:37:51,821
Speaker 3: that they can bring their child to a restaurant and

780
00:37:51,862 --> 00:37:54,102
Speaker 3: you go, oh, that's not how they do it here. Like,

781
00:37:54,142 --> 00:37:57,301
Speaker 3: it's very dependent on different places. We're talking to someone

782
00:37:57,302 --> 00:38:00,542
Speaker 3: at work who lived in Sweden and you simply wouldn't

783
00:38:00,582 --> 00:38:01,702
Speaker 3: you wouldn't take your kids.

784
00:38:01,862 --> 00:38:04,022
Speaker 2: Yeah, But then when I was in Italy, anyone will

785
00:38:04,062 --> 00:38:05,861
Speaker 2: tell you it is in Italy kids will run around

786
00:38:05,862 --> 00:38:07,582
Speaker 2: to eleven o'clock at night. No one bats an island

787
00:38:08,022 --> 00:38:11,261
Speaker 2: like not in a form dining setting. Again, like to

788
00:38:11,382 --> 00:38:13,422
Speaker 2: the common sense point you were saying about the tennis,

789
00:38:13,822 --> 00:38:16,701
Speaker 2: I think there's a formal dining setting where it would

790
00:38:16,701 --> 00:38:19,221
Speaker 2: be irritating to have a kid there. Although if that

791
00:38:19,302 --> 00:38:21,462
Speaker 2: kid is quiet and on a screen, if I'm irritated

792
00:38:21,462 --> 00:38:23,542
Speaker 2: by that, that's just about my judgment. It's not about

793
00:38:23,582 --> 00:38:27,142
Speaker 2: my actual experience, and I should examine that myself. But

794
00:38:27,221 --> 00:38:29,661
Speaker 2: you know that in lots of sudden Europe, kids are

795
00:38:29,701 --> 00:38:32,462
Speaker 2: part of every interaction and nobody gets upset about it.

796
00:38:32,822 --> 00:38:35,781
Speaker 1: What I'm interested in is why you think people are

797
00:38:35,781 --> 00:38:39,062
Speaker 1: getting more upset about it these days as well? What's

798
00:38:39,102 --> 00:38:43,622
Speaker 1: that about? Because Claire Stevens wrote a fantastic substack about

799
00:38:43,781 --> 00:38:46,302
Speaker 1: an experience she had recently along these lines.

800
00:38:46,422 --> 00:38:48,622
Speaker 3: Yeah, on a plane, And I just think a plane

801
00:38:48,701 --> 00:38:51,462
Speaker 3: is the fin It's the most ridiculous place for someone

802
00:38:51,502 --> 00:38:53,861
Speaker 3: to get mad about you being with your toddler because

803
00:38:53,862 --> 00:38:55,781
Speaker 3: you're like, by the way, I don't want to be

804
00:38:55,822 --> 00:38:59,341
Speaker 3: spending time with this toddler on a steel box in

805
00:38:59,382 --> 00:39:02,341
Speaker 3: the air either. I'm not enjoying this. And again it's

806
00:39:02,342 --> 00:39:05,261
Speaker 3: somewhere where it's like we have no other choice. But

807
00:39:05,342 --> 00:39:08,462
Speaker 3: I wonder. We talked last week about declining birthrate, and

808
00:39:08,701 --> 00:39:12,622
Speaker 3: I wonder if that does cause an increasing hostility.

809
00:39:12,142 --> 00:39:14,062
Speaker 1: If people just see fewer kids around.

810
00:39:14,142 --> 00:39:17,341
Speaker 3: Yeah, the less it happens, the more you kind of go, oh, well,

811
00:39:17,382 --> 00:39:19,701
Speaker 3: we don't expect children in this space, and maybe we

812
00:39:20,342 --> 00:39:23,902
Speaker 3: build less spaces that cater to them in that way,

813
00:39:24,022 --> 00:39:27,142
Speaker 3: I think that you get the aggressional the irritability of

814
00:39:28,181 --> 00:39:31,022
Speaker 3: people who maybe have never experienced that before.

815
00:39:31,542 --> 00:39:34,221
Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's a fine line, isn't it, Because you know,

816
00:39:34,422 --> 00:39:36,782
Speaker 1: it seemed like before I was saying that you shouldn't

817
00:39:36,822 --> 00:39:39,661
Speaker 1: take kids to sort of optional public spaces. But hole,

818
00:39:39,741 --> 00:39:42,301
Speaker 1: you've made me reflect on the idea that when you

819
00:39:42,382 --> 00:39:44,902
Speaker 1: have children and you want them to be interesting and

820
00:39:45,022 --> 00:39:48,181
Speaker 1: interested people, you want to take them to different experiences

821
00:39:48,221 --> 00:39:50,902
Speaker 1: from an early age, which includes the tennis, it includes

822
00:39:50,902 --> 00:39:53,022
Speaker 1: a premiere if that's part of your life. You want

823
00:39:53,062 --> 00:39:57,221
Speaker 1: to expose them to diverse sets of circumstances. And there's

824
00:39:57,261 --> 00:39:59,542
Speaker 1: something a little bit sad about the idea of keeping

825
00:39:59,542 --> 00:40:02,302
Speaker 1: your kid cooped up at home where they can't upset

826
00:40:02,342 --> 00:40:05,182
Speaker 1: anybody until the age of eighteen, when they're suddenly allowed

827
00:40:05,221 --> 00:40:05,701
Speaker 1: every year.

828
00:40:05,902 --> 00:40:09,502
Speaker 3: Yeah, And should we always be meeting kids in there

829
00:40:09,661 --> 00:40:12,861
Speaker 3: world or sometimes are they welcome into the adult world

830
00:40:12,862 --> 00:40:14,542
Speaker 3: as well? And is that good for them to see

831
00:40:14,542 --> 00:40:17,702
Speaker 3: their parents socializing and living their own lives.

832
00:40:17,942 --> 00:40:20,701
Speaker 2: I think about the planes. I've never met a parent

833
00:40:20,741 --> 00:40:22,981
Speaker 2: who's delighted about taking their small child on a plane.

834
00:40:22,982 --> 00:40:24,382
Speaker 2: But if they have to travel, for me to be

835
00:40:24,422 --> 00:40:27,222
Speaker 2: they're going to do it. The reason people are grumpier

836
00:40:27,261 --> 00:40:29,982
Speaker 2: and granpierre, and it's nearly always men who are grumpier

837
00:40:30,022 --> 00:40:32,781
Speaker 2: and gropier, is again, there were used to be many

838
00:40:32,822 --> 00:40:35,782
Speaker 2: fewer women in these kind of public spaces. And although

839
00:40:36,422 --> 00:40:39,782
Speaker 2: and although I'm always always the person who's saying parenting

840
00:40:39,822 --> 00:40:42,102
Speaker 2: isn't just for women, very often it's the mother who's

841
00:40:42,102 --> 00:40:44,062
Speaker 2: if she's traveling, the kid comes. If she's going out,

842
00:40:44,142 --> 00:40:47,142
Speaker 2: the kid comes very often, And it'll often be a

843
00:40:47,181 --> 00:40:49,741
Speaker 2: man in a business suit who thinks that planes are

844
00:40:49,741 --> 00:40:52,062
Speaker 2: a place that he's working, that he's.

845
00:40:51,982 --> 00:40:52,902
Speaker 3: Got to concentrate.

846
00:40:53,022 --> 00:40:55,342
Speaker 2: It's quiet, it's serious here, I should and I should

847
00:40:55,342 --> 00:40:56,982
Speaker 2: be able to get my shut eye and all those things,

848
00:40:57,142 --> 00:40:59,182
Speaker 2: and he doesn't think of it as a public space

849
00:40:59,221 --> 00:41:01,861
Speaker 2: when it is one. And surely the other one is

850
00:41:01,982 --> 00:41:06,462
Speaker 2: just our increasing discomfort with discomfort, right, because I've also

851
00:41:06,502 --> 00:41:09,822
Speaker 2: seen young women get very upset about mums and babies

852
00:41:09,862 --> 00:41:12,062
Speaker 2: on planes, or parents and babies on planes. And I

853
00:41:12,142 --> 00:41:15,341
Speaker 2: understand why they like to be able to control any

854
00:41:15,382 --> 00:41:18,342
Speaker 2: interaction in their life, because they can because of everything

855
00:41:18,382 --> 00:41:19,901
Speaker 2: we talk about all the time. You know the fact

856
00:41:19,942 --> 00:41:22,582
Speaker 2: that you can curate the opinions you have to hear,

857
00:41:22,582 --> 00:41:24,022
Speaker 2: you curate what you're going to eat, and who you're

858
00:41:24,022 --> 00:41:25,301
Speaker 2: going to see and who you're going to pick up

859
00:41:25,302 --> 00:41:28,622
Speaker 2: the phone to. And in a plane, everybody's lives are

860
00:41:28,661 --> 00:41:32,142
Speaker 2: like on you know, whether it's the guy who's snoring

861
00:41:32,261 --> 00:41:34,702
Speaker 2: or the baby who's crying, or the person with a cough,

862
00:41:34,822 --> 00:41:37,102
Speaker 2: or you know, the person who insists on not putting

863
00:41:37,102 --> 00:41:38,142
Speaker 2: their headphones in or whatever.

864
00:41:38,181 --> 00:41:41,062
Speaker 3: It is welcome to public space exactly.

865
00:41:40,622 --> 00:41:42,622
Speaker 2: And we're just less and less comfortable, I think with

866
00:41:42,661 --> 00:41:45,941
Speaker 2: public spaces. In another chapter of Mothers Can Never Win

867
00:41:46,181 --> 00:41:49,062
Speaker 2: is Sophie Turner, you know, the actress former Games Thrones actress,

868
00:41:49,142 --> 00:41:53,302
Speaker 2: very famously divorced from a Jonas. She was recently posting

869
00:41:53,302 --> 00:41:55,542
Speaker 2: pictures of herself at the one of the Oasis concerts

870
00:41:55,542 --> 00:41:57,661
Speaker 2: at Wembley and she looks like she's having a great

871
00:41:57,701 --> 00:41:59,942
Speaker 2: time and all the comments are like, wry are kill men?

872
00:42:00,022 --> 00:42:02,661
Speaker 2: Carry you kill it? And so she clapped back and said, oh,

873
00:42:02,781 --> 00:42:05,062
Speaker 2: have you ever heard of this thing called shared custody?

874
00:42:05,261 --> 00:42:07,622
Speaker 2: Maybe the kids were with their dad that day, and

875
00:42:07,661 --> 00:42:10,422
Speaker 2: I just was like, so if you don't take your kids,

876
00:42:10,502 --> 00:42:13,302
Speaker 2: you're going to get criticized. If you do take your kids,

877
00:42:13,302 --> 00:42:15,502
Speaker 2: you're a bad mother, like there is no winning in

878
00:42:15,542 --> 00:42:16,142
Speaker 2: this situation.

879
00:42:17,022 --> 00:42:19,542
Speaker 3: I have some feedback. There's been a lot of hate

880
00:42:19,902 --> 00:42:25,302
Speaker 3: thrown around lately, and I feel incredibly defensive. The Internet

881
00:42:25,382 --> 00:42:30,462
Speaker 3: has inexplicably turned on what has been labeled stump clap

882
00:42:30,502 --> 00:42:34,181
Speaker 3: hay music, which feels incredibly disrespectful to the early two

883
00:42:34,181 --> 00:42:36,181
Speaker 3: thousand one post.

884
00:42:35,902 --> 00:42:39,181
Speaker 2: On poor millennials. Everyone's coming for you, coming for.

885
00:42:39,221 --> 00:42:43,542
Speaker 3: All about things. A post on X reads this whole

886
00:42:43,582 --> 00:42:46,982
Speaker 3: generation of stomp clap ho hay indie folk was terrible,

887
00:42:47,342 --> 00:42:49,822
Speaker 3: And to refresh your memory, if you're going I don't

888
00:42:49,942 --> 00:43:15,661
Speaker 3: recall this genre, well here's a little taste.

889
00:43:08,102 --> 00:43:23,742
Speaker 4: Because we will never around us.

890
00:43:23,982 --> 00:43:27,222
Speaker 1: I was immediately transported to a barn in a field,

891
00:43:27,302 --> 00:43:29,741
Speaker 1: drinking a cocktail with a sprig of rosemary and a

892
00:43:29,781 --> 00:43:30,301
Speaker 1: mason er.

893
00:43:30,622 --> 00:43:33,102
Speaker 3: It was a simpler time, Amelia. It was such a

894
00:43:33,142 --> 00:43:36,781
Speaker 3: lovely time. So think Mumford and Sons of monsters and

895
00:43:36,822 --> 00:43:41,462
Speaker 3: men the luminius. Think man in a waistcoat, another has

896
00:43:41,502 --> 00:43:44,221
Speaker 3: an indie hat. Maybe throw some suspenders in there. Maybe

897
00:43:44,221 --> 00:43:46,261
Speaker 3: the man with the hat had suspenders. He's also got

898
00:43:46,302 --> 00:43:49,462
Speaker 3: a basoon and a beard and a mustache. So much,

899
00:43:49,502 --> 00:43:52,902
Speaker 3: but very unkept This was the moment where millennial Hipsterdam

900
00:43:52,982 --> 00:43:55,622
Speaker 3: hit its peak. And you see, those were the days

901
00:43:56,342 --> 00:43:58,341
Speaker 3: days and they took our skinny jeans, and they took

902
00:43:58,382 --> 00:44:00,941
Speaker 3: our socks, and they took our parts and just leave

903
00:44:00,982 --> 00:44:04,182
Speaker 3: our Stom Club hay Home music alone because it wasn't anyone.

904
00:44:04,502 --> 00:44:07,661
Speaker 2: Have anything to do. Also with Anna Kendrick and the Cups, remember,

905
00:44:07,701 --> 00:44:13,902
Speaker 2: and then that was fine.

906
00:44:14,221 --> 00:44:17,182
Speaker 1: I feel like Zoey Deschanal's all over this moment.

907
00:44:17,502 --> 00:44:20,502
Speaker 3: God, it was such a lovely time, and I just

908
00:44:20,502 --> 00:44:23,022
Speaker 3: feel the Genz's just keep going back and just like

909
00:44:23,822 --> 00:44:26,102
Speaker 3: raining on our parade. But I have such nostalgia for

910
00:44:26,142 --> 00:44:27,582
Speaker 3: that moment and I think it should come back.

911
00:44:28,102 --> 00:44:30,381
Speaker 2: A massive thank you to all the outlauders who've been

912
00:44:30,382 --> 00:44:32,502
Speaker 2: here with us. It's been a roller coaster today. Oh

913
00:44:32,822 --> 00:44:37,181
Speaker 2: goodness me listening to our show and to of course

914
00:44:37,221 --> 00:44:39,261
Speaker 2: our fabulous team for helping us put it together. We're

915
00:44:39,261 --> 00:44:41,022
Speaker 2: going to be back in your ears tomorrow and.

916
00:44:40,982 --> 00:44:43,461
Speaker 3: If you're looking for something else to listen to, well,

917
00:44:43,701 --> 00:44:48,062
Speaker 3: we did a deep dive on Holly's latest rabbit hole

918
00:44:48,062 --> 00:44:50,461
Speaker 3: that she's fallen down, which is there are more wild

919
00:44:50,502 --> 00:44:53,941
Speaker 3: allegations about Prince Andrew. We spoke last week about the

920
00:44:54,221 --> 00:44:57,182
Speaker 3: new book entitled that has come out and it turns

921
00:44:57,181 --> 00:45:00,102
Speaker 3: out there was so much more to it. So Holly

922
00:45:00,302 --> 00:45:02,701
Speaker 3: got behind the mic with M and I and explained

923
00:45:02,781 --> 00:45:06,462
Speaker 3: to us everything that's come out, what the impact will be,

924
00:45:06,542 --> 00:45:10,102
Speaker 3: what we think Charles might do. Look, it's very very interesting.

925
00:45:10,382 --> 00:45:12,702
Speaker 3: A link is always will be in our show notes.

926
00:45:13,221 --> 00:45:15,781
Speaker 3: If you want a free subscription to Mama Maya, then

927
00:45:15,822 --> 00:45:18,942
Speaker 3: listen up. Mama Mia is cooking up something very exciting

928
00:45:19,062 --> 00:45:21,701
Speaker 3: and we need your brilliant opinions to help us make

929
00:45:21,781 --> 00:45:24,022
Speaker 3: even better content. And if there is something the outluders have,

930
00:45:24,142 --> 00:45:24,822
Speaker 3: it is opinions.

931
00:45:25,102 --> 00:45:27,701
Speaker 2: Really good opinions too. Will take just twenty minutes of

932
00:45:27,701 --> 00:45:30,022
Speaker 2: your time to fill in this survey and in return

933
00:45:30,181 --> 00:45:33,582
Speaker 2: you'll get one month of free subscription to MoMA Mia

934
00:45:33,622 --> 00:45:35,821
Speaker 2: and also a ten dollar E gift card. Little it

935
00:45:35,942 --> 00:45:37,302
Speaker 2: comes in handy little treat.

936
00:45:37,502 --> 00:45:40,181
Speaker 3: If you are already a subscriber, we love you, then

937
00:45:40,302 --> 00:45:42,462
Speaker 3: what a perfect little treat it is to give to

938
00:45:42,462 --> 00:45:44,782
Speaker 3: your mum or a friend who's always asking what podcast

939
00:45:44,822 --> 00:45:47,821
Speaker 3: to listen to next. If you're interested, check out the

940
00:45:47,862 --> 00:45:48,982
Speaker 3: link in our show notes.

941
00:45:49,302 --> 00:45:54,942
Speaker 2: Ay shout out to Anymma Miya subscribers listening If you

942
00:45:55,102 --> 00:45:57,982
Speaker 2: love the show and you want to support us, subscribing

943
00:45:57,982 --> 00:46:00,422
Speaker 2: to Mamma Mia is the very best way to do it.

944
00:46:00,622 --> 00:46:02,502
Speaker 2: There's a link in the episode description