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Speaker 1: From Mamma Mia.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Spill your daily pop culture picks. I'm

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Speaker 2: Laura Brodnick, and today we are joined by a very

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Speaker 2: special returning guest host. Even guest hosts sounds too formal

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Speaker 2: for you.

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Speaker 3: It sounds much too formal, especially with my current appearance

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Speaker 3: as I sit looking a little bit unhinched. I'm Kelly McCarran.

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Speaker 3: And despite what Laura is looking at at the moment,

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Speaker 3: I am one of the hosts over on the You

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Speaker 3: Beauty podcast, which is Australia's biggest beauty podcast. So if

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Speaker 3: you don't listen to that, you need to jump on over.

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Speaker 3: But today we're not talking about beauty, are we, Laura.

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Speaker 2: No, we're talking about something well equally is important. Can

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Speaker 2: I just say Cooley is.

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Speaker 3: Interesting and important? And to be fair, when Laura and

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Speaker 3: I are together, we could probably talk about literally any

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Speaker 3: subject known to men.

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Speaker 2: We just had half an hour soundcheck and our producers like,

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Speaker 2: well that should have been two minutes. But okay, so

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Speaker 2: strap into this podcast. Stop both of you. Stop week.

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Speaker 2: Always call us as the kids who would have been

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Speaker 2: separated at school, and I think if we're not careful

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Speaker 2: going forward, will be separated in the podcast studio as well,

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Speaker 2: because we don't want that we're talking is too much

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Speaker 2: coming up on the show today, it's a good day

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Speaker 2: you'll hear, Kelly, because I feel like you'll have a

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Speaker 2: lot of thoughts on these subjects. An ex girlfriend of

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Speaker 2: Kanye West has made some pretty damning allegations about his

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Speaker 2: behavior to Biancas and Sory, So we're going to get

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Speaker 2: into that, which leads us to a big discussion that

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Speaker 2: I think we'll both have some very passionate thoughts on,

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Speaker 2: which is the current uptick in naked dressing in Hollywood

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Speaker 2: and also the history behind it. People are getting very

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Speaker 2: intense about that. But first, I understand you have some

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Speaker 2: breaking important news to share with us.

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Speaker 3: Oh listen, it's a big news day, but it's something

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Speaker 3: really nice and light, which I think is cute. So

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Speaker 3: Timothy Chalomi and Kylie Jenner were photographed at the tennis

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Speaker 3: and I'm going to read you some of the headlines

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Speaker 3: I spotted because they're kind of wild given the context.

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Speaker 3: So what Kylie Jenner and Timothy Chalomy really said during

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Speaker 3: painful exchange at tennis match and then totally out of

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Speaker 3: sync on tennis date, Kylie Jenner dominates a reluctant Timothy.

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Speaker 3: And then there was one that was like she grabbed

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Speaker 3: him from an awkward kiss, and those headlines. There was

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Speaker 3: also other headlines that were calling it out for what

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Speaker 3: it was, which was just a very normal moment between

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Speaker 3: a couple. But let me paint your picture of the

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Speaker 3: actual photos. So there is a couple behaving like a

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Speaker 3: very normal couple. One person isn't very interested in watching

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Speaker 3: whatever is in front of them. In this case, it

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Speaker 3: is a game of tennis, so starts being a little

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Speaker 3: bit annoying and playful, and the other person is fobbing

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Speaker 3: them off but desperately trying to watch what is in

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Speaker 3: front of them, but also still being a little bit playful.

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Speaker 3: And I just thought it just made me laugh because

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Speaker 3: I mean, firstly, I was like, my mom, I are

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Speaker 3: we just what a slow news day? Huh? But I

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Speaker 3: think it's just such a real and very relatable moment

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Speaker 3: in a relationship, and people that are writing these sorts

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Speaker 3: of silly headlines, do you really walk around with your

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Speaker 3: partner smiling serenely at all times doing anything normal? And

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Speaker 3: then it made me think of and you know exactly

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Speaker 3: what I mean, like when you see photographs pat photos

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Speaker 3: of a couple getting out of a car or walking

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Speaker 3: their dog and they look a little bit pissed off,

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Speaker 3: and the headlines are like trouble in Paradise dot dot dot,

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Speaker 3: and when it's like, actually, one party is just going

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Speaker 3: about their day, not smiling, because smiling at all times

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Speaker 3: during the day would make you a sociopath. And then

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Speaker 3: the other person's probably just glaring at the long lens

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Speaker 3: that they've spotted spying on them doing a very mundane task.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Look, the body language experts have been out in full

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Speaker 2: force over these photos, and I think, like, I'd.

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Speaker 3: Love to know what their credentials are.

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Speaker 2: Really, how do you get into that line of work

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Speaker 2: of just saying like this is how his arm this

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Speaker 2: way means? There's like I know that's a proper study,

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Speaker 2: But I do feel like some of the people who

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Speaker 2: comment to the tabloids might not be the top body

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Speaker 2: image experts. They're probably out there doing more important work.

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Speaker 3: But working for the FBI, not commenting on a celebrity keys.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, in the stands of a tennis match. I think

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Speaker 2: one of the reasons that peopeople are so invested in

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Speaker 2: this is, I mean, they're always invested in Kylie and

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Speaker 2: Timothy as a couple, because even though they've been together

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Speaker 2: for two years, sightings of them together can be few

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Speaker 2: and far between. Yeah, and they're also coming off the

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Speaker 2: awards circuit together, where they never walked the red carpet

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Speaker 2: together or did any post photos. But because there were

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Speaker 2: so many cameras in the award shows, we got to

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Speaker 2: see them cugging and kissing and holding onto each other

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Speaker 2: and all that sort of stuff. So it was the

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Speaker 2: most kind of attention around them that we'd had for

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Speaker 2: a while. And then it goes to this tennis match,

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Speaker 2: and I think these photos and that video that's circulating

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Speaker 2: just feeds into this idea that people have had them

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Speaker 2: about them for a long time, that she is like

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Speaker 2: super invested in clinging to him and is like the

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Speaker 2: one pushing the relationship, and that he is this like

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Speaker 2: superstar who's like tolerating her and too good for her.

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Speaker 2: Like people have had that in their heads for so long.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, they've just got too much time on

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Speaker 3: their hands.

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Speaker 1: Exactly.

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Speaker 3: She's Kylie Jenner, and she's incredible, smart business woman, and

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Speaker 3: she's starting to look at like I just he clearly

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Speaker 3: loves her. And I just think that they are such

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Speaker 3: a normal like that is such a normal couple moment

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Speaker 3: that was on camera, and as always with anything, people

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Speaker 3: are just reading far too much into it because they've

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Speaker 3: got too much time on their hands.

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Speaker 1: Yeah exactly.

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Speaker 2: I mean the thing is, like I understand the interest

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Speaker 2: in them because it is this kind of like interesting

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Speaker 2: pop culture moment. But I've always been really fascinated with

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Speaker 2: this idea that he's like lowering herself and she's like

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Speaker 2: really punching up with him.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Like the conversations around like, oh, should he take

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Speaker 3: her to the Oscars because she will lower his chance

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Speaker 3: of getting an Oscar? What do you mean, what does

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Speaker 3: his girlfriend have anything to do with his performance?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and this idea that there's like that yeah, that

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Speaker 2: she that he wants to be a serious actor. So, like,

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Speaker 2: I guess there are some old school thinking of like

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Speaker 2: this idea of a reality star and like an Oscar

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Speaker 2: nominate actor not being in the same kind of frame.

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Speaker 2: But I also think that that's coming from like maybe

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Speaker 2: a bit of a different generation because whether you lo

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Speaker 2: Ora Hater, Kylie Jenna has a lot of like cultural

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Speaker 2: capital and a lot of cultural like power in terms

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Speaker 2: of like who she is and the brand she's cultivated,

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Speaker 2: and like the space that she occupies in pop culture,

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Speaker 2: to the point now that she's pulled away so much,

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Speaker 2: like we've talked about her pulling away from her family,

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Speaker 2: pulling away from starring on The Kardashians, Like she's rarely

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Speaker 2: actually shows anything of her public life at the moment,

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Speaker 2: which I think has made her more interesting. It's made

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Speaker 2: her this sort of personal life.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like if you watch her on the Kardashians, she

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Speaker 2: doesn't share anything about her life. She pops in for

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Speaker 2: a little moment says like, I love being with my family,

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Speaker 2: then she pops away, like she doesn't mention, Like we

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Speaker 2: know less about her life now than we've ever known before.

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Speaker 2: Like she's completely shut the door. And for anyone else

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Speaker 2: in reality TV, that wouldn't kind of like lower their

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Speaker 2: capital because their currency is sharing information. But because we

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Speaker 2: know there's so much going on in her life but

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Speaker 2: she doesn't share it, it's made her more interesting in

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Speaker 2: a way.

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Speaker 3: I am more interesting. She's definitely the most like interesting Kardashian.

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Speaker 3: I've never watched a episode, but the fact that that

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Speaker 3: girl hit a pregnancy for nine months, I mean exactly.

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Speaker 2: I also think that like if any I mean again,

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Speaker 2: I don't want to project onto these people like some

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Speaker 2: people are doing. But I was like, she's got she

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Speaker 2: would be a really interesting person. I think like she's

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Speaker 2: got two kids, she's had all these crazy relationships, she's

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Speaker 2: grown up around fame in the spotlight, she's got her business. Like,

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Speaker 2: I feel like she would be a very kind of

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Speaker 2: like worldly interesting person, you know what I mean. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: and also she's really hot. So I don't understand, like

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's not it's not like a I don't

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Speaker 2: think it's as in depth as people are thinking, Like,

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Speaker 2: it's not unheard of both.

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Speaker 3: In their twenties. They're both really hard.

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Speaker 1: It's I think it's not.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's just like kind of magnanimous like

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Speaker 2: discussion that people think they're having of like oh, these two,

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Speaker 2: these two like.

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Speaker 3: People talking about world politics.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think it's.

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Speaker 2: Okay that they're not It's okay, they're just two hot

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Speaker 2: young people are And also it's not unheard of an

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Speaker 2: Oscar Noman actor taking a hot woman as his date

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Speaker 2: to the Oscars. In fact, that's like the Hello Leonardo exactly.

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Speaker 2: That's the you know, the one thing that you can

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Speaker 2: kind of count on. So look, I think if everyone

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Speaker 2: who's worried about their relationship, I think they're fine. I

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Speaker 2: think we just caught them in a cute moment and

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Speaker 2: they want to kiss all the time, and that's fine.

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Speaker 2: So Kanye West and Bianca Sensory, his Australian wife, and

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Speaker 2: also you know, the one of the brand architects that

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Speaker 2: he works with. I think that people always forget that

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Speaker 2: she has a job as well. Have been the headlines

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Speaker 2: a little bit since the Grammy Awards, where they very

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Speaker 2: notoriously turned up on the red carpet. She was wearing

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Speaker 2: almost a completely naked outfit that when news outlets shared

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Speaker 2: it across their social platforms, they had to sort of

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Speaker 2: do their own blurring and adding stars and things in naked. No.

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Speaker 1: I know that it was we saw it was naked.

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Speaker 2: I know we had to also add stars and things

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Speaker 2: because the thing is, like, you can wear that in

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Speaker 2: a public and it's okay, But if you put that

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Speaker 2: on Instagram, Instagram is so intense, they'll just shut you

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Speaker 2: right down.

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Speaker 3: Can you wear that out in? Likeck, isn't there something

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Speaker 3: about indecency?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting that you say that because I think

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Speaker 2: they have been that like other in other countries, they

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Speaker 2: have been pulled up by police for doing that. But

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Speaker 2: I think on the Grummy's red carpet, I guess it's

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Speaker 2: essentially a private function, even though it's been beamed out

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Speaker 2: to the world, So you can wear a naked dress

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Speaker 2: down the carpet.

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Speaker 3: So they did your flaps out, they had all.

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Speaker 2: Their photos taken, those photos of blasted everywhere, and then

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Speaker 2: depending on who you talk to, they either chose to

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Speaker 2: leave because they had never intended to go into the ceremony,

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Speaker 2: or they were kicked out, depending on who you're talking to.

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Speaker 2: So that again brought up this whole conversation that we've

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Speaker 2: been having for years about Bianca Sensory and Kanye West,

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Speaker 2: is that because she doesn't have her own platform to speak,

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Speaker 2: we don't really know her. We only see her as

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Speaker 2: the woman walking silently alongside Kanye West wearing these completely

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Speaker 2: over the top, always naked, always, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, performing public sex acts like and the conversations around that,

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Speaker 3: is it coursive control, is it abuse? Or she a

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Speaker 3: willing participant?

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Speaker 2: Yes, And that's always been the question because there's been

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Speaker 2: no way for us to kind of tell and obviously,

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Speaker 2: like you can, a lot of people will be like, oh,

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Speaker 2: it's none of our business, and it's like, well, they

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Speaker 2: are performing.

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Speaker 1: They are very public.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like red carpets, they're selling merchandise off this fact,

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Speaker 2: like they do interviews. It's like this is me, Like,

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Speaker 2: they're the ones who are putting it into the public world,

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Speaker 2: so I think it's okay to talk about it.

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Speaker 3: They profit off being a celebrity, so it actually is

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Speaker 3: people's business.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, because a lot of the times they have

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Speaker 2: been out, they've been like doing those kind of more

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Speaker 2: guerrilla style geezy marketing campaigns where they just go out

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Speaker 2: and like either have the paparazzi take their photos or

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Speaker 2: they take them themselves. So there's been that whole conversation

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Speaker 2: around is Bianca choosing to do this because we just

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Speaker 2: don't know, Like, for all we know, she's in there

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Speaker 2: picking out all her clothes and she wants to do

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Speaker 2: this even though she looks drastically different now to photos

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Speaker 2: of her before she was married to Kane West. Or

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Speaker 2: is it the idea that she's been kind of almost

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Speaker 2: forced behind the scenes to wear these clothes. So this

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Speaker 2: conversation has come up again recently in the last couple

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Speaker 2: of days a huge way because Amber Rose, who dated Kanye. Yes,

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Speaker 2: I know, his name's yay. I just for anyone who's getting.

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Speaker 3: Isn't it ey Yee?

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Speaker 1: You'll yet, No, I think it's ya kan Ye.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, I love that. I want to change

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Speaker 3: my name to it Yay.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 2: It's so funny because as he was walking into the

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Speaker 2: Grammys when she's wearing the naked dress, the photographers are

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Speaker 2: calling out Kanye Kanye, and he's like, no, it's Yay,

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Speaker 2: Like I've legally changed my name. Please refer to me

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Speaker 2: as that.

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Speaker 3: But sometimes God, alright, Sussex, dear lord.

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Speaker 2: I know, I'm like, oh God, if Kate Middleton, if

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Speaker 2: like Paul Kate Middleton's still being called Kate Middleton, Like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know how Kanye West can. Like people really

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Speaker 2: latch onto the name they know you as they.

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Speaker 3: Really think about it. Even just one of your friends

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Speaker 3: that got married, they will always if they changed their name,

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Speaker 3: they will still always be the maiden name.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm like, I don't know this new person

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Speaker 2: who's used married name on Facebook, new name, so we'll

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Speaker 2: call him Kanye is a long way of kind of

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Speaker 2: explaining that. So, Kanye and amberros started dating in two

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Speaker 2: thousand and eight. They were together and also like in

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Speaker 2: a very public like lots of red car but lots

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Speaker 2: of joint interview, lots of creative projects between them. They're

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Speaker 2: a very public couple until twenty ten when they split.

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Speaker 2: And amber has recently gone on a podcast called The

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Speaker 2: Club Sha Shay Podcast. And because this conversation, sorry, the

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Speaker 2: what Club Sha Shay? Do you listen to that podcast?

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Speaker 2: I can't say I do, but I mean they got

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Speaker 2: a good exclusive the first time.

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Speaker 3: I just really want to.

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Speaker 2: I know, I was like, do I put a little

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Speaker 2: you know, vibe into it this showy? I mean, look,

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Speaker 2: they got a great exclusive. So I think they're kind

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Speaker 2: of winning the podcast charts at the moment. So because

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Speaker 2: this whole biancersen Sorry, after the Grammys conversation was still happening,

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Speaker 2: the host Sharon Sharp asked amber Rose about Kanye West,

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Speaker 2: and amber Rose has been really forthcoming talking about her

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Speaker 2: relationship with Kanye West before, but I think because of

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Speaker 2: the timing of these Bianca quotes, this really kind of

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Speaker 2: has struck a chord with people. So amber Rose said

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Speaker 2: of Bianca, Kanye is for sure dressing her like that,

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Speaker 2: and he did the same thing for me, and he

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Speaker 2: did it to Kim so talking about Kim Kardashi and

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Speaker 2: his ex wife, and she just wanted to say, this

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Speaker 2: is who he is. And then she went on to

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Speaker 2: sort of explain the thinking behind it, which I think

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Speaker 2: is the interesting part here where Ambero said that Kanye

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Speaker 2: wants other men to want to fuck his woman. That's

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Speaker 2: what he's really into. He likes that, he likes that

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Speaker 2: men are drooling over his women, and that's what he's into.

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Speaker 2: He wants his friends to want to fuck his girlfriend.

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Speaker 2: He wants everybody and when you walk into a room,

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Speaker 2: he wants everybody to look at his girlfriend or wife

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Speaker 2: as the most desirable.

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Speaker 1: Person in the room. And that's all he cares about.

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Speaker 3: The thing is, we don't know whether or not she's

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Speaker 3: into this, because that sounds like a bit of a

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Speaker 3: sexy like a what's it called a king that you

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Speaker 3: you know, it's kind of like voyeuristic. But the question

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Speaker 3: is is she into this or is she sort of

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Speaker 3: being I know that's heavily.

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Speaker 2: That's always the hardest thing in this conversation is that

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Speaker 2: we just don't know. But it kind of sounds like

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Speaker 2: that he has.

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Speaker 3: Come out being plans come out and just connect.

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Speaker 2: But even if she does now, it's like hard to

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Speaker 2: know because a few times, like she has sort of

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Speaker 2: said things like in interviews or like sources have spoken

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Speaker 2: on her behalf where she's like no, no, no, like

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Speaker 2: we're married, I'm choosing all this. But again, it's so

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Speaker 2: hard to know now because just we just like it.

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Speaker 2: Even if she comes out now and like posts something

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Speaker 2: to Instagram and says like I want to dress like this,

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Speaker 2: there's no way for people to you know, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: And so obviously this has kind of got the whole

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Speaker 2: conversation kind of movie again because this was always the

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Speaker 2: thought with Amber Rose with Kim Kardashian, especially because there's

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Speaker 2: those scenes on The Kardashians. I mean, not that you

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Speaker 2: have watched The Kardashians so you're a better person than me,

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Speaker 2: but there are no But.

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Speaker 3: I've heard the stories about like him like choosing what.

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Speaker 3: I know that he chose the carpet dress for the

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Speaker 3: met I know that. Yeah, I've heard that he's chosen

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Speaker 3: a lot of her outfits. But once again, if it

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Speaker 3: was consensual, like I choose my husband's outfits.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, which is interesting because when you hear, like some

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Speaker 2: couples say that, especially if it's a I know, there's

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Speaker 2: a bit of a double standard, but I guess you know,

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Speaker 2: history is on the side of like men being more

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Speaker 2: you know, coursive controlling than women if you hear, and.

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Speaker 3: Also women traditionally being more into clothes than men.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, so like when I hear you say that,

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Speaker 2: that doesn't kind of give any red flags to me.

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Speaker 2: But I'm also I mean, I don't know what your

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Speaker 2: marriage is like, but I'm assuming that you won't be

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Speaker 2: abusive towards Luke if he doesn't wear the outfit you want.

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Speaker 3: I have waived the leopard ye pair of pants that

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Speaker 3: I bought him last year at him quite vigorously saying,

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Speaker 3: what are these parents that I look like? Good? But

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Speaker 3: he still is yet to wear them.

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Speaker 2: To be fair, Oh that's well, if we see Luke

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Speaker 2: out in about Naka dress, we'll notice sound the alarm bell.

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Speaker 2: But the other reason why this has kind of struck

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Speaker 2: more of a cord like. Ambrose went on in the

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Speaker 2: interview to kind of talk a bit more about how

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Speaker 2: she felt behind the scenes being in this relationship with

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Speaker 2: Kanye and him dictating what she wears. And this is

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Speaker 2: where it kind of feels like it's more than a

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Speaker 2: couple's kink. It kind of felt a very controlling behavior

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Speaker 2: because she said that she was at the time, she

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Speaker 2: was quite young. She said she allowed herself to be

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Speaker 2: dressed by them, by him, and be controlled by him,

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Speaker 2: and she just said, oh, well, I was so young.

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Speaker 2: What was I going to do tell Kanye no? And

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Speaker 2: he's buying me all this stuff, and I think to myself,

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Speaker 2: I do look pretty, I do look cool. But now,

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Speaker 2: she says, when she looks back of pictures of her

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Speaker 2: when she's dating Kanye, she has all of his clothes on,

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Speaker 2: and she feels like quite uncomfortable about it now with

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Speaker 2: like a bit of age and experience behind her. And

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Speaker 2: she also said that sometimes the stuff that he would

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Speaker 2: make her wear, she would say, yeah, I cried. I

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Speaker 2: remember crying and arguing with him and being like, I

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Speaker 2: don't want to fucking wear this shit.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to.

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Speaker 2: Wear it, but I had to. Ah, which is I

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Speaker 2: mean that does? And also Julia Foxes kind of said

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Speaker 2: the same thing. She said afterwards that Kanye would buy

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Speaker 2: her all these clothes and bags at first, she was

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Speaker 2: really excited, but then he became really intense on what

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Speaker 2: she was wearing, and she also felt like she couldn't

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Speaker 2: say no. So I feel like we're putting a lot

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Speaker 2: on Bianca. Sen's sorry, but it's just like there's clips

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00:17:07,584 --> 00:17:10,544
Speaker 2: of him throwing out all of Kim Kardashian's clothes. There's

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Speaker 2: now all these interviews with Bianca saying.

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Speaker 3: Oh, that's very wasteful as well.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, exactly, well yeah put it either, you know not.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure they didn't throw them away although he

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Speaker 2: wanted to, but you know, giving them away, putting him

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Speaker 2: in storage. So it's just hard when you have like

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Speaker 2: those clips everywhere, you have Julia Fox talking about it,

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Speaker 2: and then you have Amber Ury saying that she was

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Speaker 2: in tears over what she was forced to wear. It

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Speaker 2: just makes the conversation around Bianca a bit more intense.

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Speaker 3: So, speaking of naked dressing, let's move things a little

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Speaker 3: bit lighter on the lighter side of nudicy. It was

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00:17:46,144 --> 00:17:49,584
Speaker 3: so funny because because all of this has been being

398
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Speaker 3: discussed and lots of news articles about it and such.

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Speaker 3: I did see an article that said why naked dressing

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Speaker 3: is resurging from the nineties, as if the nineties came

401
00:18:01,064 --> 00:18:04,544
Speaker 3: up with naked dressing, and yeah, fashion only in the nineties.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. Listen, I know that this isn't nothing

403
00:18:07,304 --> 00:18:12,584
Speaker 3: to wear pod, but naked dressing happened way before the nineties.

404
00:18:13,184 --> 00:18:18,584
Speaker 3: So yeah, Clara Baugh actually wore a sheer flap address

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Speaker 3: in the nineteen twenties, Laura, can you imagine how scandalous

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Speaker 3: that would have been.

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Speaker 1: That would have just been.

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Speaker 2: I mean, she's just grabed it, glyd that TikTok Is

409
00:18:27,744 --> 00:18:29,824
Speaker 2: wasn't around then, because they would just have a field

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Speaker 2: day with that.

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Speaker 1: I guess they had.

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Speaker 2: She'd like the whispers. But yeah, naked dressing has been

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Speaker 2: I guess it has these little like pop cultural fashion

414
00:18:37,384 --> 00:18:40,024
Speaker 2: moments where it pops up, and then I think at

415
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Speaker 2: the moment it's just maybe become a bit more mainstream,

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Speaker 2: so people are sort of seeing in a different way.

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Speaker 2: But it's so interesting when you think about Marilyn Munroe

418
00:18:47,424 --> 00:18:51,144
Speaker 2: singing Happy Birthday, mister President in nineteen sixty two, and

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00:18:51,184 --> 00:18:53,944
Speaker 2: people call that the original naked dress, and when you

420
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Speaker 2: see it now, you're like, oh, that's so like covered

421
00:18:56,664 --> 00:18:59,744
Speaker 2: up but so much it's so like it would be

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Speaker 2: almost like modest today, which is interesting.

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Speaker 3: Do you think that people called that the original naked

424
00:19:05,384 --> 00:19:08,104
Speaker 3: dress because of her? I'm saying this with quotes, but

425
00:19:08,104 --> 00:19:11,424
Speaker 3: people obviously can't see it like sexy fe because in

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Speaker 3: the sixties, Jane Burkin or a naked dress like literally

427
00:19:15,504 --> 00:19:19,144
Speaker 3: just a sheer dress with hits were out and no

428
00:19:19,184 --> 00:19:22,384
Speaker 3: one was saying like that wasn't considered the original naked dress,

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00:19:22,584 --> 00:19:26,664
Speaker 3: and neither was Clara's. And then Share was naked at

430
00:19:26,704 --> 00:19:29,264
Speaker 3: the Metgala in the seventies. But maybe it's because they

431
00:19:29,304 --> 00:19:31,904
Speaker 3: didn't have the curves that Marilyn Munroe that people sort

432
00:19:31,904 --> 00:19:34,864
Speaker 3: of think of when they think sexy. I wonder if

433
00:19:34,864 --> 00:19:36,264
Speaker 3: that has anything to do it, or maybe I'm just

434
00:19:36,264 --> 00:19:37,664
Speaker 3: thinking so too deep.

435
00:19:37,904 --> 00:19:40,024
Speaker 2: No, I think body type plays into it in a

436
00:19:40,104 --> 00:19:41,864
Speaker 2: huge way, And I think a lot of the time,

437
00:19:42,024 --> 00:19:45,544
Speaker 2: like people who have like much smaller bodies can get

438
00:19:45,544 --> 00:19:48,224
Speaker 2: away with sheer clothing and you kind of just look

439
00:19:48,224 --> 00:19:51,064
Speaker 2: at it as not being overly sexual, whereas if you're

440
00:19:51,104 --> 00:19:53,144
Speaker 2: someone who's in a bigger body or you have boobs

441
00:19:53,224 --> 00:19:57,304
Speaker 2: or any you can sort of like everything you wear

442
00:19:57,424 --> 00:19:59,504
Speaker 2: can be seen as a bit more provocative, even though

443
00:19:59,544 --> 00:20:01,704
Speaker 2: you're like I'm just leaving the house. Like I know

444
00:20:01,744 --> 00:20:04,824
Speaker 2: for myself because I have enormous boobs, like just enormous

445
00:20:05,024 --> 00:20:07,184
Speaker 2: and that's just what they are, and I just have to, let,

446
00:20:07,224 --> 00:20:09,664
Speaker 2: you know, just work with them. But I'm so aware that,

447
00:20:09,744 --> 00:20:12,264
Speaker 2: like I can't where there's things like that other people

448
00:20:12,304 --> 00:20:13,944
Speaker 2: can wear to the office or out to events and

449
00:20:13,984 --> 00:20:15,984
Speaker 2: things that if I wear then people were like, oh,

450
00:20:16,064 --> 00:20:17,944
Speaker 2: you really dressed up tonight, And it's like, no, my

451
00:20:17,984 --> 00:20:20,344
Speaker 2: boobs they have to come with me everywhere they come home.

452
00:20:20,584 --> 00:20:23,504
Speaker 3: I can't leave my room. Name Sometimes i'd like to,

453
00:20:23,664 --> 00:20:26,304
Speaker 3: I'd love to heavy, but like I can't leave them

454
00:20:26,304 --> 00:20:27,104
Speaker 3: at home alike.

455
00:20:27,024 --> 00:20:29,984
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. I kind of just wanted with the naked

456
00:20:30,064 --> 00:20:33,784
Speaker 2: dressing too. It's like sometimes it feels exploitative and exploitative,

457
00:20:33,784 --> 00:20:36,184
Speaker 2: and sometimes it feels fun, and I think sometimes it

458
00:20:36,224 --> 00:20:38,344
Speaker 2: comes from the woman who's doing it. So when you

459
00:20:38,424 --> 00:20:41,304
Speaker 2: originally see those images of like a Marilyn Monroe coming

460
00:20:41,344 --> 00:20:42,904
Speaker 2: out on stage, I think it was a lighting too,

461
00:20:42,944 --> 00:20:45,384
Speaker 2: because when the light hits that dress and those old videos,

462
00:20:45,704 --> 00:20:47,144
Speaker 2: it does look very sheer and see.

463
00:20:47,504 --> 00:20:50,464
Speaker 3: And as if she's just like covered with sparkles.

464
00:20:50,504 --> 00:20:52,184
Speaker 2: And at the time I remember, like, I don't know

465
00:20:52,344 --> 00:20:53,584
Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember the first time you

466
00:20:53,624 --> 00:20:55,344
Speaker 2: sort of saw that dress. I don't remember, because I

467
00:20:55,344 --> 00:20:57,544
Speaker 2: feel like it was just always there. I always thought

468
00:20:57,544 --> 00:20:59,784
Speaker 2: it was like empowering and like she wore this gorgeous

469
00:20:59,904 --> 00:21:02,104
Speaker 2: dress and showed all these people. But now that we

470
00:21:02,264 --> 00:21:04,544
Speaker 2: know the history of Marilyn Munroe and how she was

471
00:21:04,584 --> 00:21:07,304
Speaker 2: like manipulated, and how she was sort of told to

472
00:21:07,384 --> 00:21:10,024
Speaker 2: dress in a certain way, change her name, change her looks,

473
00:21:10,384 --> 00:21:12,704
Speaker 2: all that sort of thing, I look at that dress

474
00:21:12,744 --> 00:21:16,264
Speaker 2: now as more an exploitative naked dress. But then I

475
00:21:16,304 --> 00:21:18,344
Speaker 2: think of share like you're saying back in the nineteen

476
00:21:18,384 --> 00:21:21,584
Speaker 2: seventies where she saw that feathered the Bob Mackie dress,

477
00:21:21,624 --> 00:21:24,464
Speaker 2: so she wore it on a cover of the Time magazine.

478
00:21:24,544 --> 00:21:26,624
Speaker 2: She also wore it to the met Gala. When I

479
00:21:26,664 --> 00:21:29,904
Speaker 2: see that, I think empowering because all the stories I've

480
00:21:29,944 --> 00:21:31,664
Speaker 2: heard she chose to wear that.

481
00:21:32,504 --> 00:21:35,904
Speaker 3: Yes, and it wasn't like and there was no one

482
00:21:35,944 --> 00:21:39,024
Speaker 3: in her life that was sort of pushing her into

483
00:21:39,064 --> 00:21:43,344
Speaker 3: a narrative of being like this super sexy or exploited person.

484
00:21:43,864 --> 00:21:48,784
Speaker 3: What about because in the nineties as well, the Charmed

485
00:21:48,864 --> 00:21:50,944
Speaker 3: actress Rose McGowan, Oh.

486
00:21:50,864 --> 00:21:53,064
Speaker 1: The string dress, I know exactly.

487
00:21:52,744 --> 00:21:55,344
Speaker 3: You know what I'm talking about. So she wore a

488
00:21:55,464 --> 00:21:57,864
Speaker 3: very naked dress. It was literally just like chain mail

489
00:21:57,984 --> 00:21:58,864
Speaker 3: over a g string.

490
00:21:58,984 --> 00:22:01,304
Speaker 2: That's actually maybe one of the more naked dresses in

491
00:22:01,304 --> 00:22:03,904
Speaker 2: the world because I could naked. He used to naked

492
00:22:03,944 --> 00:22:07,064
Speaker 2: dresses being like very sheer and then like an underlay,

493
00:22:07,144 --> 00:22:08,864
Speaker 2: so like they have like the.

494
00:22:08,664 --> 00:22:12,624
Speaker 3: Flowers over the nips badge, so it's like not but.

495
00:22:12,504 --> 00:22:13,944
Speaker 1: This is literally just string.

496
00:22:14,344 --> 00:22:16,304
Speaker 2: I've never seen that as a child, and being like,

497
00:22:16,544 --> 00:22:18,464
Speaker 2: I didn't know you could go out in public like that.

498
00:22:18,504 --> 00:22:20,584
Speaker 2: Like I was so fascinated by it because I loved

499
00:22:20,584 --> 00:22:22,144
Speaker 2: her and I saw that dress.

500
00:22:22,184 --> 00:22:25,064
Speaker 3: Well in She did a podcast interview a couple of

501
00:22:25,104 --> 00:22:29,584
Speaker 3: years ago on Jamela Jimil Jamil's podcast, and she said

502
00:22:29,824 --> 00:22:33,904
Speaker 3: that it was her first public appearance since being sexually assaulted,

503
00:22:34,744 --> 00:22:39,664
Speaker 3: and she actually just thought that she wanted it to

504
00:22:39,784 --> 00:22:42,384
Speaker 3: She wanted to wear it as a reclaim to reclaim

505
00:22:42,624 --> 00:22:45,784
Speaker 3: her own body after her assault. She also did say

506
00:22:45,784 --> 00:22:48,064
Speaker 3: that she looked back on it and was like, oh, whoa,

507
00:22:48,144 --> 00:22:49,904
Speaker 3: I forgot that it was that naked. Though.

508
00:22:50,144 --> 00:22:52,424
Speaker 2: Yeah, It's one of those things, isn't it, where like

509
00:22:52,544 --> 00:22:56,704
Speaker 2: it's this fine line between not empowering and being empowering

510
00:22:56,784 --> 00:22:59,104
Speaker 2: because you want to think that you're choosing it like

511
00:22:59,144 --> 00:23:01,504
Speaker 2: a share. Like when she won her Oscar for Moonstruck

512
00:23:01,504 --> 00:23:03,944
Speaker 2: and she had that naked dress on and everyone was like,

513
00:23:04,064 --> 00:23:06,424
Speaker 2: don't wear that. No one's going to take you seriously,

514
00:23:06,464 --> 00:23:08,544
Speaker 2: like you need to be a serious actress to win

515
00:23:08,584 --> 00:23:11,824
Speaker 2: this award, and all of her interviews at the time

516
00:23:11,864 --> 00:23:13,664
Speaker 2: were like, but that is my look and that is

517
00:23:13,704 --> 00:23:15,584
Speaker 2: my style, and I will wear that naked dress. And

518
00:23:15,584 --> 00:23:18,624
Speaker 2: now every naked dress in the last decades that have

519
00:23:18,664 --> 00:23:20,744
Speaker 2: been since she won that award has been a sort

520
00:23:20,784 --> 00:23:23,344
Speaker 2: of copy of that, and that feels so empowering because

521
00:23:23,384 --> 00:23:25,584
Speaker 2: it did feel like what she chose. But then you're

522
00:23:25,584 --> 00:23:27,784
Speaker 2: seeing all these other naked dresses and it's like, did

523
00:23:27,784 --> 00:23:29,264
Speaker 2: you really want to wear that? Or are you wearing

524
00:23:29,304 --> 00:23:31,384
Speaker 2: it for headlines? But then I see someone like a

525
00:23:31,464 --> 00:23:33,504
Speaker 2: Beyonce wear a naked dress, like she's done that so

526
00:23:33,544 --> 00:23:36,024
Speaker 2: many times, and I don't know why. Something in my

527
00:23:36,064 --> 00:23:38,584
Speaker 2: head sort of says like, oh, but she's choosing that,

528
00:23:38,784 --> 00:23:41,104
Speaker 2: or like Jennifer Lopez is choosing to wear a naked

529
00:23:41,184 --> 00:23:44,624
Speaker 2: dress because they're more in control of their career and

530
00:23:44,664 --> 00:23:45,824
Speaker 2: they feel like less like.

531
00:23:45,744 --> 00:23:46,544
Speaker 3: Someone got more time.

532
00:23:47,144 --> 00:23:49,344
Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels like someone isn't telling them what to.

533
00:23:49,224 --> 00:23:53,384
Speaker 3: Do, other than Bianca, who is like got no power,

534
00:23:53,424 --> 00:23:56,224
Speaker 3: She's got no voice. I mean she does, of course,

535
00:23:56,344 --> 00:23:58,224
Speaker 3: but and we just have no idea what's going on.

536
00:23:58,264 --> 00:24:00,464
Speaker 3: We do feel like we look at Beyonce wearing nothing

537
00:24:00,904 --> 00:24:03,904
Speaker 3: or mesh and feel no, that was her choice. But like,

538
00:24:03,944 --> 00:24:06,384
Speaker 3: do you also think then, though, that the venue and

539
00:24:06,464 --> 00:24:09,384
Speaker 3: event has something to do with it? Like at the

540
00:24:09,384 --> 00:24:12,024
Speaker 3: met Gala, I'm always it's like, oh, when someone's not

541
00:24:12,064 --> 00:24:16,904
Speaker 3: wearing much, well not much actually, but it just depends

542
00:24:16,944 --> 00:24:19,784
Speaker 3: I guess. Also where the nudity is placed. Whereas you

543
00:24:19,784 --> 00:24:22,984
Speaker 3: know at the MTV Awards, oh sla sys like just

544
00:24:23,024 --> 00:24:26,064
Speaker 3: been as naked as you want, because it feels more like, oh,

545
00:24:26,264 --> 00:24:27,504
Speaker 3: respect the dress code.

546
00:24:27,584 --> 00:24:30,584
Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels like the time and place and also

547
00:24:30,704 --> 00:24:32,744
Speaker 2: like is it like your movie premiere or is it

548
00:24:32,784 --> 00:24:34,624
Speaker 2: someone else's or is someone else winning an award? Like

549
00:24:34,624 --> 00:24:36,944
Speaker 2: there's so many politics that go into red carpet dressing.

550
00:24:37,224 --> 00:24:39,984
Speaker 2: I think the event does play in Twitter log, but

551
00:24:40,024 --> 00:24:42,424
Speaker 2: to the point now where it's almost become like I

552
00:24:42,504 --> 00:24:44,624
Speaker 2: just wonder if the naked dress has the same power

553
00:24:44,664 --> 00:24:47,104
Speaker 2: it used to because to me, it now feels unless

554
00:24:47,144 --> 00:24:50,864
Speaker 2: it's biancurrent, she's completely naked at an event where it

555
00:24:50,904 --> 00:24:52,824
Speaker 2: feels it not her choice. I wonder if the naked

556
00:24:52,904 --> 00:24:54,864
Speaker 2: dress has become a bit powerless, and I think we

557
00:24:54,904 --> 00:24:56,704
Speaker 2: saw that this year at the Vanity Fair.

558
00:24:57,424 --> 00:24:59,784
Speaker 3: Yeah, too many people have done it. If you want to,

559
00:24:59,904 --> 00:25:02,224
Speaker 3: if you want to make an impact, you've got to

560
00:25:02,224 --> 00:25:02,904
Speaker 3: get your flaps out.

561
00:25:02,944 --> 00:25:05,464
Speaker 2: That's why she Yeah, exactly, like you've got to really yeah,

562
00:25:05,464 --> 00:25:07,984
Speaker 2: you've got to almost be like no dress required, it's

563
00:25:08,064 --> 00:25:11,144
Speaker 2: just naked, because yeah, is that any fair? Yeah, everyone

564
00:25:11,224 --> 00:25:13,024
Speaker 2: was going through the photos and you're just like, oh, yeah,

565
00:25:13,144 --> 00:25:15,584
Speaker 2: naked dress, naked dress, naked dress, like it became there's

566
00:25:15,584 --> 00:25:17,224
Speaker 2: a mum, you know. And then a lot of people

567
00:25:17,224 --> 00:25:19,504
Speaker 2: have those like kind of like grinny style full pent

568
00:25:19,664 --> 00:25:23,344
Speaker 2: like underwear underneath it with the naked dress, and even

569
00:25:23,464 --> 00:25:25,544
Speaker 2: that feels like so like I feel like everyone was

570
00:25:25,584 --> 00:25:27,544
Speaker 2: eye rolling and being like, oh, this is so dune,

571
00:25:27,624 --> 00:25:30,264
Speaker 2: Like we're so sick of these dresses, And something that

572
00:25:30,264 --> 00:25:32,704
Speaker 2: would have been like very headline making even a few

573
00:25:32,784 --> 00:25:35,264
Speaker 2: years ago has now been like, oh, you don't even

574
00:25:35,264 --> 00:25:37,144
Speaker 2: get on the front page of the carousel because we're

575
00:25:37,184 --> 00:25:39,944
Speaker 2: so over the naked dress, like the power's being taken away,

576
00:25:40,144 --> 00:25:41,864
Speaker 2: but not being taken away because we feel like women

577
00:25:41,904 --> 00:25:43,944
Speaker 2: should be covered up taken away because.

578
00:25:43,904 --> 00:25:45,144
Speaker 3: Just doesn't have the same impact.

579
00:25:45,264 --> 00:25:47,944
Speaker 2: But in saying that, though, I found Julia Fox's Vanity

580
00:25:47,944 --> 00:25:49,304
Speaker 2: Fair dress. Don't know if you saw that. It's a

581
00:25:49,384 --> 00:25:52,024
Speaker 2: naked dress, so like you can see full booths.

582
00:25:52,024 --> 00:25:53,504
Speaker 3: So I didn't like what it creaked me out. I

583
00:25:53,504 --> 00:25:54,144
Speaker 3: know you loved it.

584
00:25:54,144 --> 00:25:57,224
Speaker 2: It creeps my hair was It's so funny when we

585
00:25:57,224 --> 00:25:59,584
Speaker 2: were doing out like Oscar's recap, I was like, the

586
00:25:59,744 --> 00:26:03,184
Speaker 2: hair all over her naked dress looked exactly like my

587
00:26:03,264 --> 00:26:05,264
Speaker 2: bathroom floor the night I had to pull my hair

588
00:26:05,304 --> 00:26:07,384
Speaker 2: extensions out, Like that's what it looked like.

589
00:26:07,424 --> 00:26:09,064
Speaker 3: I thought you're about to say, like her actual hair,

590
00:26:09,104 --> 00:26:10,184
Speaker 3: and I was like, I think that was.

591
00:26:10,104 --> 00:26:12,304
Speaker 2: The no, No, that is the point. Yes, but just

592
00:26:12,304 --> 00:26:14,184
Speaker 2: like the way the hair was kind of slinking down

593
00:26:14,184 --> 00:26:16,344
Speaker 2: her body so she had a nipple out, but no

594
00:26:16,344 --> 00:26:18,224
Speaker 2: one cared because they were just like, the hair is

595
00:26:18,264 --> 00:26:18,944
Speaker 2: all encompassed.

596
00:26:18,984 --> 00:26:21,704
Speaker 3: And also it's Julia FOXX. Nothing she does and she

597
00:26:21,864 --> 00:26:23,264
Speaker 3: like totally owns her looks.

598
00:26:23,344 --> 00:26:25,264
Speaker 2: Well, That's why I think is always interesting about her

599
00:26:25,344 --> 00:26:27,344
Speaker 2: is that she I almost get like a share vibe

600
00:26:27,344 --> 00:26:28,904
Speaker 2: from her because she's like, oh, yeah, I'm wearing this

601
00:26:28,984 --> 00:26:31,704
Speaker 2: for headlines, Like I chose to wear this for headlines,

602
00:26:31,704 --> 00:26:34,344
Speaker 2: and I find that very empowering. Then someone who was

603
00:26:34,384 --> 00:26:36,744
Speaker 2: maybe dressed in a naked dress and felt like they

604
00:26:36,784 --> 00:26:39,984
Speaker 2: had to walk down a red carpet like that. Do

605
00:26:40,024 --> 00:26:42,304
Speaker 2: you think we're going to see more naked dressing in

606
00:26:42,344 --> 00:26:43,944
Speaker 2: the future. Do you think it's going to peter out?

607
00:26:43,944 --> 00:26:46,144
Speaker 2: People are gonna slip too far the other way?

608
00:26:46,704 --> 00:26:49,784
Speaker 3: I actually don't think that we will see I think

609
00:26:49,944 --> 00:26:53,024
Speaker 3: at the met Gala, so that's the next big red carpet,

610
00:26:53,344 --> 00:26:55,744
Speaker 3: big red carpet thing. I don't think that we will

611
00:26:55,744 --> 00:26:58,544
Speaker 3: see as much naked dressing because people have realized that

612
00:26:58,624 --> 00:27:01,104
Speaker 3: it didn't get them the attention and the headlines that

613
00:27:01,104 --> 00:27:04,304
Speaker 3: they wanted. So instead they're going to actually have to

614
00:27:04,384 --> 00:27:07,224
Speaker 3: put a little bit more effort in to get the

615
00:27:07,224 --> 00:27:09,064
Speaker 3: headlines and to be really creative.

616
00:27:09,144 --> 00:27:11,224
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe we'll swing all the way back around like

617
00:27:11,224 --> 00:27:12,424
Speaker 2: Princess e ball gowns.

618
00:27:12,544 --> 00:27:13,344
Speaker 1: I wouldn't mind.

619
00:27:13,184 --> 00:27:16,504
Speaker 3: That, as dressed as the shadow.

620
00:27:16,664 --> 00:27:20,184
Speaker 2: Yeah, it'll be everyone will be doing that. Well, thank

621
00:27:20,224 --> 00:27:22,264
Speaker 2: you so much for listening to the spill today. And

622
00:27:22,304 --> 00:27:24,184
Speaker 2: thank you Kelly for joining us again. If we had

623
00:27:24,224 --> 00:27:25,824
Speaker 2: our way, this has been a three hour podcast, but

624
00:27:25,864 --> 00:27:30,664
Speaker 2: we squeezed a what in anytime. Lovely Laura and if

625
00:27:30,664 --> 00:27:32,464
Speaker 2: you want to let us know what you'd love to

626
00:27:32,504 --> 00:27:35,824
Speaker 2: hear about on the spill. If you want more naked dresses, chat,

627
00:27:35,984 --> 00:27:38,344
Speaker 2: more move reviews, feel free to leave us or if

628
00:27:38,344 --> 00:27:40,864
Speaker 2: you're on Apple Podcasts, we do read all of them.

629
00:27:41,184 --> 00:27:43,064
Speaker 2: And you know it's okay to be honest because I

630
00:27:43,464 --> 00:27:45,064
Speaker 2: read them all and I don't let them look at them.

631
00:27:45,104 --> 00:27:47,104
Speaker 2: So we're all good there and we'll be back in

632
00:27:47,144 --> 00:27:48,864
Speaker 2: your ears tomorrow at three pm.

633
00:27:48,864 --> 00:27:54,384
Speaker 1: Bye bye,