WEBVTT - In Two Minds

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to a Mother Me podcast, Muma Me your

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<v Speaker 1>acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters. This

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<v Speaker 1>podcast is recorded on Patterns are what keepers grounded, the

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<v Speaker 1>familiar rhythms that shape our routines and relationships. When they're good,

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<v Speaker 1>they bring comfort, joy in a sense of home, and honestly,

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<v Speaker 1>you just can't get enough of them.

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<v Speaker 2>We were going on dates and eating out every couple

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<v Speaker 2>of nights. We were hanging out with all of my friends.

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<v Speaker 2>He was continuously buying me flowers, sending me flowers to

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<v Speaker 2>my work. He would take me to gigs and to

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<v Speaker 2>the movies, and we were absolutely just obsessed with each other.

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<v Speaker 1>But the thing about patterns is not all of them

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<v Speaker 1>are good. Some sneak up on you, starting small, barely

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<v Speaker 1>noticeable at first, Then before you realize it, they've taken hold,

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<v Speaker 1>and suddenly your whole life can feel like it's been

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<v Speaker 1>turned upside down.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember the moment he got home. We were fighting.

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<v Speaker 2>He was instantly getting aggressive. He'd moved all his belongings

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<v Speaker 2>out of our bedroom into the room downstairs, the spare room,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was like there were two separate people living

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<v Speaker 2>in the house.

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<v Speaker 1>When I got home, I'm Georgia Love and this is

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<v Speaker 1>everyone has an ex Come with me as we dive

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<v Speaker 1>into a collection of unconventional stories about relationships past through

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<v Speaker 1>the eyes and the hearts of the very people who

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<v Speaker 1>lived them. Meet Kate, self proclaimed perpetually single and perfectly

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<v Speaker 1>fine with it at the ohso wise age of twenty two,

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<v Speaker 1>she wasn't exactly out there searching for the one. But

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<v Speaker 1>dear listener, we both know what happens next. A casual

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<v Speaker 1>scroll one night, and boom, a guy slides into a DMS.

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<v Speaker 2>His name was Ben. I was very happy on my own,

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<v Speaker 2>very happy at living with my cat. I was definitely

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<v Speaker 2>in my just single girl era and really comfortable and independent.

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<v Speaker 2>I had a really great, stable job and really really

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<v Speaker 2>supportive large friendship circles. So for me, I was always

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<v Speaker 2>the one that would be the person that's third wheeling

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<v Speaker 2>or fifth Wheeling or organizing the Taco Tuesdays, and wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>really searching for a relationship at that point in my life.

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<v Speaker 2>I think I'd been on dating apps a couple of

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<v Speaker 2>times and not really had much success. I don't think

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<v Speaker 2>I'd ever even been on a real first date at

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<v Speaker 2>that point. So when Ben slid into my DMS. I

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<v Speaker 2>was really nicely surprised. I didn't know who he was.

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<v Speaker 2>I actually thought he could be a catfish because he

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<v Speaker 2>didn't have his first name in his profile at all.

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<v Speaker 2>It wasn't in his bio, it wasn't in his username.

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<v Speaker 2>I just had a couple of mutual followers with him.

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<v Speaker 2>He actually DM me asking who my secret Sanna was

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<v Speaker 2>and how many I had. I think I'd posted that

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<v Speaker 2>it was Christmas time at work and I was doing

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<v Speaker 2>Secret Sander with my team, and he replied to my story,

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<v Speaker 2>I believe. And I remember just striking up the conversation

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<v Speaker 2>with him, asking my friend, Hey, who is this guy?

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<v Speaker 2>Is he a catfish? Is he even real? And she said, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>I know him from work. He's cute, he's very nice.

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<v Speaker 2>You should speak to him. And I remember, as that

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<v Speaker 2>day progressed, we had some banter. He was at his

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<v Speaker 2>work Christmas party that evening and he asked me what

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<v Speaker 2>I was doing. I said, I'm watching Gilmore Girls, and

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<v Speaker 2>I remember he made a joke about loving Lorelei or

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<v Speaker 2>something like that, and then he said he wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>come and watch Gilmore Girls with me, and me being

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<v Speaker 2>in my single era, I thought, you know what, my

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<v Speaker 2>friend has cleared the fact that he's real. I'll just

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<v Speaker 2>let him come over. He did come over, and he

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<v Speaker 2>had had a little bit to drink, but not too much,

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<v Speaker 2>and I remember we just sat on my couch and

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<v Speaker 2>talked for hours. One thing led to another, and I

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<v Speaker 2>remember he stayed over the next morning. He was really

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<v Speaker 2>really sweet. We were intimate again, and he was very complimentary.

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<v Speaker 2>He made me breakfast in my own kitchen, and he

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<v Speaker 2>realized that I was vegetarian and he was vegan, and

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<v Speaker 2>we were really excited about that, as not many people

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<v Speaker 2>we knew were at the time, and it all just

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<v Speaker 2>kind of started from there. He messaged me, I think

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<v Speaker 2>maybe an hour or two after he left my house

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<v Speaker 2>to go. He had a second job on the weekends

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<v Speaker 2>in retail, and he messaged me an hour or two

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<v Speaker 2>after he left, saying how adorable he thought I was,

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<v Speaker 2>and how I had a cute cat, and he wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to see me again. Anyway. I was buzzing. I had

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<v Speaker 2>a little crush immediately. He was really tall and tattooed,

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<v Speaker 2>very fit as well, and so funny. I could just

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<v Speaker 2>tell the moment I met him that he was really charismatic,

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<v Speaker 2>really funny, and really easy to talk to, so I

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<v Speaker 2>instantly also wanted to see him again. I remember I

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<v Speaker 2>went to lunch with my friends that day and I

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<v Speaker 2>was telling them all about him, and they said, this

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<v Speaker 2>is so cute. We've never seen me like this about

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<v Speaker 2>a man. So I was very, very excited when that

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<v Speaker 2>night I was going out clubbing and he said, I'll

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<v Speaker 2>come meet up with you, and the rest is kind

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<v Speaker 2>of history. We were inseparable from there. He came home

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<v Speaker 2>with me again that night. I remember he was buying

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<v Speaker 2>my friend's drinks and then McDonald's on the way home.

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<v Speaker 2>The next day, he stayed over. I think we spent

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<v Speaker 2>the day together and then we just could not stop talking.

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<v Speaker 2>It all happened really, really quickly. He was twenty five

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<v Speaker 2>at the time when I met him, about to turn

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<v Speaker 2>twenty six in a few weeks, and I think he

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<v Speaker 2>basically stayed over at my house every day, and he

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<v Speaker 2>took me on my first proper date. We went and

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<v Speaker 2>had vegan food, he bought us margaritas, and we were

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<v Speaker 2>playing Truth or Dare, and one thing led to another

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<v Speaker 2>and he asked me to be his girlfriend, and I

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<v Speaker 2>said yes. I was so excited, and things had moved

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<v Speaker 2>really quickly. I think it had been four weeks at

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<v Speaker 2>that point, and he said to me, I think I

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<v Speaker 2>love you, and I remember just sitting there and being

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<v Speaker 2>in complete shock that it was happening so quickly, and

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<v Speaker 2>I said to him, I can't say it back yet.

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<v Speaker 2>This is a really big deal for me. I've never

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<v Speaker 2>said I love you.

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<v Speaker 1>At this point, these stirred up memories of a ghost

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<v Speaker 1>of a situation ship past. His name was Jake.

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<v Speaker 2>My previous dating experience had been limited to a bit

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<v Speaker 2>of a situation ship that was on and off from

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<v Speaker 2>when I was seventeen for three years. And with that situationship,

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<v Speaker 2>we would go from friends to friends with benefits to

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<v Speaker 2>him blocking me and being quite abusive. So I'd never

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<v Speaker 2>actually said I love you to any man before, and

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<v Speaker 2>he had left me with a fair bit of PTSD

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<v Speaker 2>and trauma off the back of that three year period

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<v Speaker 2>where it was so up and down and so heightened.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean I was, yeah, seventeen, he was eighteen, and

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<v Speaker 2>it was so messy and so dramatic, and I remember

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<v Speaker 2>it was just the darkest period of my life on

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<v Speaker 2>and off at a really really young age. I learnt

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<v Speaker 2>how cruel men could be, and he had left me

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<v Speaker 2>feeling really untrusting towards men. And even though I wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>in an official relationship with my ex situationship, he had

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<v Speaker 2>really left this kind of mark on me where I

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<v Speaker 2>just didn't feel lovable. I felt really confident in myself

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<v Speaker 2>as a person and as a friend, but romantically I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't feel worthy of love. And so when I met

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<v Speaker 2>Ben and he was everything that my ex situationship wasn't,

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<v Speaker 2>that was a real turning point for me and the

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<v Speaker 2>way I approached love, I guess and romance. Our relationship

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<v Speaker 2>was very physical from the start, and we were definitely

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<v Speaker 2>really compatible in the bedroom. I remember teaching him some

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<v Speaker 2>new things, and he was a little bit shy. I

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<v Speaker 2>think because he'd been in relationship since he was in

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<v Speaker 2>high school. He hadn't really found his feet in that area,

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<v Speaker 2>so I guess it was really nice to teach him things.

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<v Speaker 2>He would absolutely spoil me as well from the moment

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<v Speaker 2>we started kind of seeing each other, and in those

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<v Speaker 2>early days, he would bring me flowers all the time,

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<v Speaker 2>little sweet treats. He would show up after work at

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<v Speaker 2>my work with, yeah, a bouquet of flowers or a

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<v Speaker 2>little gift that he'd thought of me, and would be

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<v Speaker 2>there whenever I finished work. He was just always there,

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<v Speaker 2>ready to hang out. So yeah, pretty much inseparable from

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<v Speaker 2>day one. I think he was just so charismatic. He

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<v Speaker 2>knew how to just lie up a room. He made

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<v Speaker 2>everyone feel so welcome. He was so inclusive, so funny.

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<v Speaker 2>You could just tell when he was thinking of jokes

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<v Speaker 2>as well, and then he'd pull them off really well.

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<v Speaker 2>The whole room would be in fits of laughter. We

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<v Speaker 2>integrated really quickly, as in he would absolutely come along

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<v Speaker 2>to all my friendship events. I met his friends as well. However,

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<v Speaker 2>he had a much much smaller friendship group. He was

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<v Speaker 2>a strange from his family and his mother had passed away.

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<v Speaker 2>He had two younger brothers and a couple of older

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<v Speaker 2>siblings as well on both his mum and his dad's

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<v Speaker 2>side that he was completely estranged from, and he didn't

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<v Speaker 2>have a large friendship circle. So he really integrated quickly

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<v Speaker 2>into mine, and everyone made him feel really welcome, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think he fit in really well. We all had

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<v Speaker 2>very similar interests when it came to know movies, music.

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<v Speaker 2>We were very much into the kind of alternative music scene,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was really easy for us all to get along.

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<v Speaker 2>I think I felt this intense need to make him

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<v Speaker 2>feel included and part of my family, whether it be

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<v Speaker 2>my friendship family or my family family. I feel like

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<v Speaker 2>he was a very strong, strong person. He was so

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<v Speaker 2>intelligent and in tune with his emotions when we spoke,

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<v Speaker 2>and he had actually also told me that he'd lost

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<v Speaker 2>eighty kilograms and used to weigh one hundred and sixty

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<v Speaker 2>and was around eighty when we met, and I thought,

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<v Speaker 2>this person is so strong mentally. That is such a

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<v Speaker 2>sign of someone who is really really strong in terms

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<v Speaker 2>of their character, their perseverance, and their ability to see

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<v Speaker 2>an obsticle and overcome it. And he did that for

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<v Speaker 2>himself and was motivated himself to do that. He was

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<v Speaker 2>quite self conscious of that, and I was always just

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<v Speaker 2>in awe of that, and I thought that that was

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<v Speaker 2>one of the best things about him, was knowing that

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<v Speaker 2>fact as well. So he definitely was just someone I

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to embrace and bring into my circle really quickly.

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<v Speaker 2>So she did things progressed really quickly. I think said

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<v Speaker 2>I love you when he asked me to be his girlfriend,

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<v Speaker 2>and I definitely felt a lot of pressure from him

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<v Speaker 2>to say it back, but held off for I think

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<v Speaker 2>it was only a week or two, but it felt

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<v Speaker 2>like a really long time. And I was really clear

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<v Speaker 2>with him that it was a really big deal for me,

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<v Speaker 2>as I'd never said I love you to anyone else before.

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<v Speaker 2>When I said it, it was his birthday and I

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<v Speaker 2>wrote it in a card, and I remember he was

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<v Speaker 2>just so shocked and surprised, and we instantly just embraced

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<v Speaker 2>and it was very cute, see, and I was just

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<v Speaker 2>so in love with him so quickly. I felt so

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<v Speaker 2>so hard, and I never had before, so it was

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<v Speaker 2>all very very new to me. And that first couple

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<v Speaker 2>of months we were thrown into living together quite quickly,

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<v Speaker 2>as his lease at his rental had come up and

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<v Speaker 2>he didn't want to sign on for a year when

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<v Speaker 2>he'd just kind of gotten into a really serious relationship.

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<v Speaker 2>So I said, well, I mean, I have a one

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<v Speaker 2>bedroom apartment, but we can make it work. Move in here.

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<v Speaker 2>There's no point in you signing a whole year long

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<v Speaker 2>lease at your current place. Let's make it work together.

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<v Speaker 2>And so he basically never left. Essentially, it was a

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<v Speaker 2>one night stand turn relationship very very very quickly.

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<v Speaker 1>Despite only being together a couple of months, Cad and

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<v Speaker 1>Ben were totally and blissfully in love, but even in

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<v Speaker 1>their perfect little world, there were hints that things were

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<v Speaker 1>moving a little too fast.

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<v Speaker 2>We went through the usual kind of initial relationship hiccups

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<v Speaker 2>of he was quite jealous of some of my male friends,

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<v Speaker 2>especially ones I had passed intimate experiences with, and although

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<v Speaker 2>there was nothing there, he felt quite strongly about my

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<v Speaker 2>friendships with them, and I really started to distance myself

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<v Speaker 2>and isolate myself quite quickly from them. And he was

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<v Speaker 2>quite attached and he would constantly text me, and if

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't reply for a couple of hours because I

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<v Speaker 2>was at work, he'd you know, double text, and I

0:11:53.728 --> 0:11:56.888
<v Speaker 2>thought that was completely normal, and that really felt like

0:11:57.008 --> 0:11:58.848
<v Speaker 2>he was just making a big effort and just wanted

0:11:58.928 --> 0:12:00.368
<v Speaker 2>to spend time with me and hear from me, and

0:12:00.728 --> 0:12:02.888
<v Speaker 2>absolutely was just as obsessed with me as I was

0:12:02.928 --> 0:12:04.808
<v Speaker 2>with him. I think I had just had that security

0:12:05.368 --> 0:12:07.288
<v Speaker 2>even though I'd never been in a relationship. I just

0:12:07.368 --> 0:12:09.368
<v Speaker 2>didn't feel that need to text twenty four to seven,

0:12:09.808 --> 0:12:12.568
<v Speaker 2>And so that was something that I noticed quite early on.

0:12:13.328 --> 0:12:16.648
<v Speaker 2>About a month after I told Ben that I loved him,

0:12:17.088 --> 0:12:19.328
<v Speaker 2>he went out for drinks with some friends. He didn't

0:12:19.368 --> 0:12:22.848
<v Speaker 2>come home that night, which wasn't abnormal as we had

0:12:22.888 --> 0:12:25.328
<v Speaker 2>just started dating, and he told me he was staying

0:12:25.368 --> 0:12:28.408
<v Speaker 2>over at his friend's house. I remember the next day

0:12:28.528 --> 0:12:31.288
<v Speaker 2>at work it was Valentine's Day and he came and

0:12:31.368 --> 0:12:33.928
<v Speaker 2>visited me before work while I was getting coffee and

0:12:33.968 --> 0:12:35.928
<v Speaker 2>brought me a bunch of flowers, which was really sweet.

0:12:36.488 --> 0:12:39.088
<v Speaker 2>But then another bouquet of flowers showed up at my

0:12:39.168 --> 0:12:43.808
<v Speaker 2>workplace that day that had been pre ordered for Valentine's Day.

0:12:44.528 --> 0:12:47.768
<v Speaker 2>So I didn't think too much into that until about

0:12:47.808 --> 0:12:49.968
<v Speaker 2>a week later and I get a message from my

0:12:50.128 --> 0:12:54.487
<v Speaker 2>friend who said, hey, I didn't know Ben and this

0:12:54.808 --> 0:12:57.928
<v Speaker 2>coworker of my friend was such good friends. It was

0:12:57.968 --> 0:13:01.848
<v Speaker 2>basically like a hate girly text, but from my friend

0:13:01.968 --> 0:13:04.928
<v Speaker 2>who worked with this girl at the time, and he

0:13:04.928 --> 0:13:07.008
<v Speaker 2>didn't outright say it, but I knew something had happened.

0:13:07.048 --> 0:13:10.448
<v Speaker 2>So I questioned my friend and he has actually said

0:13:10.768 --> 0:13:13.168
<v Speaker 2>she was bragging about sleeping with him the week before.

0:13:15.128 --> 0:13:17.248
<v Speaker 2>I had a feeling in my gut. I knew something

0:13:18.208 --> 0:13:22.088
<v Speaker 2>definitely had happened because I thought back and I thought

0:13:22.128 --> 0:13:25.768
<v Speaker 2>it was strange that he didn't message me and come

0:13:25.808 --> 0:13:30.848
<v Speaker 2>home that night, and I think my gut just knew, yeah,

0:13:30.848 --> 0:13:34.288
<v Speaker 2>he had done something and had a secret. I felt

0:13:34.928 --> 0:13:38.168
<v Speaker 2>really really confused, but I wasn't going to jump to

0:13:38.168 --> 0:13:41.288
<v Speaker 2>conclusions and just believe this other person. I was going

0:13:41.328 --> 0:13:45.408
<v Speaker 2>to give Ben the chance to explain. I confronted Ben

0:13:45.448 --> 0:13:50.168
<v Speaker 2>about it, and he instantly got defensive and went outside

0:13:50.168 --> 0:13:53.968
<v Speaker 2>to make a phone call. And I remember just sitting

0:13:54.008 --> 0:13:56.088
<v Speaker 2>there on the phone to my best friend, saying, Hey,

0:13:56.128 --> 0:13:58.488
<v Speaker 2>this has happened. He's gone outside to make a phone call.

0:13:59.048 --> 0:14:01.728
<v Speaker 2>He's denying that it even happened, and I was in

0:14:01.968 --> 0:14:06.048
<v Speaker 2>complete shock and a complete state of confusion. At this point,

0:14:07.008 --> 0:14:09.168
<v Speaker 2>I just knew that he was lying about it, and

0:14:09.848 --> 0:14:14.448
<v Speaker 2>I messaged the other girl. She backflipped a couple of

0:14:14.448 --> 0:14:17.888
<v Speaker 2>times in that conversation and essentially ended up denying that

0:14:17.928 --> 0:14:23.568
<v Speaker 2>it happened. And then Ben admitted to it all. He

0:14:23.608 --> 0:14:26.488
<v Speaker 2>said that they got very drunk and that it was

0:14:26.528 --> 0:14:30.288
<v Speaker 2>just an accident. There was no real excuse for it.

0:14:30.928 --> 0:14:33.848
<v Speaker 2>He was crying, he was really upset. I remember I

0:14:33.968 --> 0:14:35.688
<v Speaker 2>was in a bit of shock, so I was just

0:14:35.688 --> 0:14:39.288
<v Speaker 2>sitting on the couch, just still and frozen, not able

0:14:39.328 --> 0:14:41.808
<v Speaker 2>to cry, not able to get upset. And I told

0:14:41.888 --> 0:14:43.728
<v Speaker 2>him we needed space so I could think about it.

0:14:44.248 --> 0:14:47.448
<v Speaker 2>I took the next day off work, and I know

0:14:47.568 --> 0:14:49.528
<v Speaker 2>that Ben went and stayed with his friend and spoke

0:14:49.568 --> 0:14:53.168
<v Speaker 2>to his friend. And when Ben came back, he was

0:14:53.248 --> 0:14:55.408
<v Speaker 2>so full of remorse and he was saying, he just

0:14:55.488 --> 0:14:57.528
<v Speaker 2>doesn't know why it happened. He loves me, he sees

0:14:57.528 --> 0:15:00.848
<v Speaker 2>a future with me. He absolutely wanted to make it

0:15:00.888 --> 0:15:04.008
<v Speaker 2>work with me if I could forgive him. I remember

0:15:04.048 --> 0:15:06.768
<v Speaker 2>I asked him did he use protection? He said no,

0:15:07.168 --> 0:15:09.528
<v Speaker 2>and so I instantly made us go to the doctor

0:15:09.808 --> 0:15:13.848
<v Speaker 2>and get a test together. And I remember just being

0:15:13.888 --> 0:15:16.688
<v Speaker 2>in the uber on the way to the GP and thinking,

0:15:16.968 --> 0:15:19.048
<v Speaker 2>I can't believe this has happened. I can't believe this happened.

0:15:19.208 --> 0:15:22.088
<v Speaker 2>This is only a month in to my first proper relationship.

0:15:22.608 --> 0:15:25.408
<v Speaker 2>I love this man, and he's cheated on me already.

0:15:26.208 --> 0:15:28.448
<v Speaker 2>When we got home, we had a big discussion about it,

0:15:28.728 --> 0:15:31.448
<v Speaker 2>and I said, if I choose to give you another chance,

0:15:31.488 --> 0:15:33.688
<v Speaker 2>and I choose to forgive you, I'm going to do

0:15:33.768 --> 0:15:36.328
<v Speaker 2>that with a promise that I won't resent you. I've

0:15:36.328 --> 0:15:39.728
<v Speaker 2>seen how that ruins other relationships, even years down the track,

0:15:39.848 --> 0:15:43.168
<v Speaker 2>where the partner will then be so full of resentment.

0:15:43.408 --> 0:15:44.968
<v Speaker 2>If I'm going to forgive you, I'm going to let

0:15:45.008 --> 0:15:47.168
<v Speaker 2>go and I will give you another chance wholeheartedly. But

0:15:47.208 --> 0:15:49.688
<v Speaker 2>you need to promise to never do this again. And

0:15:49.768 --> 0:15:52.128
<v Speaker 2>he said, yep, I promise I won't do this again.

0:15:53.168 --> 0:15:56.968
<v Speaker 2>After that, I chose to, yeah, forgive and forget and

0:15:57.088 --> 0:16:01.888
<v Speaker 2>move forward with absolute grace and love for him. We

0:16:01.968 --> 0:16:05.488
<v Speaker 2>just continued on as if it had never happened, and

0:16:05.528 --> 0:16:07.608
<v Speaker 2>it was just a tiny little blip. Very very early on,

0:16:08.688 --> 0:16:11.888
<v Speaker 2>we were still separable. We were going on dates and

0:16:11.968 --> 0:16:14.408
<v Speaker 2>eating out every couple of nights. We were hanging out

0:16:14.448 --> 0:16:17.248
<v Speaker 2>with all of my friends. He was continuously buying me flowers,

0:16:17.288 --> 0:16:20.048
<v Speaker 2>sending me flowers to my work. He would take me

0:16:20.608 --> 0:16:25.568
<v Speaker 2>to gigs and to the movies, and we were absolutely

0:16:25.768 --> 0:16:26.928
<v Speaker 2>just obsessed with each other.

0:16:27.288 --> 0:16:29.648
<v Speaker 1>Every couple hits a few bumps along the way, and

0:16:29.728 --> 0:16:32.368
<v Speaker 1>as far as Kay was concerned, that was all behind them.

0:16:32.608 --> 0:16:35.448
<v Speaker 1>In her mind, that bleep will only make them stronger,

0:16:35.928 --> 0:16:37.608
<v Speaker 1>and as it turns out, she was right.

0:16:38.248 --> 0:16:42.728
<v Speaker 2>We were going to a engagement party on a Saturday

0:16:42.768 --> 0:16:45.648
<v Speaker 2>evening and we were shopping for an outfit for him

0:16:45.648 --> 0:16:49.648
<v Speaker 2>to wear during the day, and while we were walking

0:16:50.088 --> 0:16:53.008
<v Speaker 2>through them all, we saw a doory store how to sale,

0:16:53.448 --> 0:16:55.608
<v Speaker 2>and at that point we had been making so many

0:16:55.688 --> 0:16:58.728
<v Speaker 2>jokes about having kids, and I was saying to him,

0:16:59.048 --> 0:17:01.488
<v Speaker 2>I'm really traditional. I don't want to have kids until

0:17:01.488 --> 0:17:03.488
<v Speaker 2>I'm married, and we were joking that we were going

0:17:03.528 --> 0:17:04.808
<v Speaker 2>to get married. He was telling me I was his

0:17:04.888 --> 0:17:06.568
<v Speaker 2>dream girl, I was the love of his life. He

0:17:06.648 --> 0:17:09.328
<v Speaker 2>was going to make me his wife. And so when

0:17:09.368 --> 0:17:12.407
<v Speaker 2>we saw this jewelry store sale, we walked in and

0:17:12.447 --> 0:17:14.608
<v Speaker 2>he said, let's just for fun, have you try some on?

0:17:15.408 --> 0:17:18.448
<v Speaker 2>And I tried some on. I tried on my dream ring,

0:17:18.528 --> 0:17:21.608
<v Speaker 2>which was a kind of square cut silver diamond ring.

0:17:22.448 --> 0:17:25.167
<v Speaker 2>It didn't look good on my finger at all. And

0:17:25.208 --> 0:17:28.288
<v Speaker 2>then there was one that was this beautiful round diamond

0:17:29.248 --> 0:17:31.888
<v Speaker 2>and we put it on my finger and it looked

0:17:31.928 --> 0:17:35.608
<v Speaker 2>completely different and it just fit. And I remember being

0:17:35.928 --> 0:17:38.407
<v Speaker 2>so shocked that this ring that I had liked. I'd

0:17:38.408 --> 0:17:40.328
<v Speaker 2>never really thought about rings before, but this ring that

0:17:40.368 --> 0:17:43.328
<v Speaker 2>I had liked on other people, the style just looked

0:17:43.328 --> 0:17:45.048
<v Speaker 2>horrible on my finger. But then when we put this

0:17:45.088 --> 0:17:47.968
<v Speaker 2>one on, it was the one. He instantly walked outside

0:17:48.008 --> 0:17:49.928
<v Speaker 2>and I could see him. He just left me there,

0:17:49.968 --> 0:17:51.848
<v Speaker 2>and I could see him pacing back and forth on

0:17:51.888 --> 0:17:53.808
<v Speaker 2>the phone, and I had no idea who he was

0:17:53.848 --> 0:17:56.728
<v Speaker 2>talking to. When he came back into the jewelry store,

0:17:56.808 --> 0:17:59.448
<v Speaker 2>he looked at me and the salesman and he said,

0:17:59.608 --> 0:18:02.648
<v Speaker 2>that was your mum. She gave us her blessing, and

0:18:02.768 --> 0:18:04.967
<v Speaker 2>he knew that he didn't need my dad's approval. My

0:18:05.048 --> 0:18:07.167
<v Speaker 2>dad was very chill and would just be completely happy

0:18:07.208 --> 0:18:09.528
<v Speaker 2>for me. It was my mom's approval who he needed.

0:18:09.928 --> 0:18:12.288
<v Speaker 2>So he'd called my mum and asked if it was

0:18:12.328 --> 0:18:15.448
<v Speaker 2>okay to ask me to marry him. She had said

0:18:15.488 --> 0:18:17.848
<v Speaker 2>it's Kate's choice, but I approved. They'd only met once

0:18:17.888 --> 0:18:20.848
<v Speaker 2>at this point, and he'd come into state with me

0:18:21.368 --> 0:18:24.568
<v Speaker 2>to meet my family a few weeks earlier, so they

0:18:24.648 --> 0:18:28.608
<v Speaker 2>had loved him and completely just fallen head over heels

0:18:28.608 --> 0:18:30.768
<v Speaker 2>with him the way I had. He made a huge

0:18:30.768 --> 0:18:34.008
<v Speaker 2>effort with my family when we were there interstate together.

0:18:34.488 --> 0:18:36.728
<v Speaker 2>He got along with my sister in a way that

0:18:36.768 --> 0:18:38.728
<v Speaker 2>I didn't even get along with her. He got along

0:18:38.768 --> 0:18:43.288
<v Speaker 2>with my cousins, my nieces, my whole family just absolutely

0:18:43.448 --> 0:18:48.048
<v Speaker 2>fell in love with him. So once we bought the ring,

0:18:48.248 --> 0:18:51.848
<v Speaker 2>we were giddy, and we got the tram home and

0:18:52.088 --> 0:18:54.848
<v Speaker 2>he was saying I'm going to surprise you and propose

0:18:54.848 --> 0:18:58.928
<v Speaker 2>when you least expect it. And I was absolutely completely

0:18:59.008 --> 0:19:01.368
<v Speaker 2>okay with that, but just knowing that the ring was there,

0:19:01.768 --> 0:19:03.768
<v Speaker 2>I can't even describe the feeling. I was so in love.

0:19:03.768 --> 0:19:05.848
<v Speaker 2>I just wanted it to happen then and there. And

0:19:05.888 --> 0:19:09.008
<v Speaker 2>then we were walking down my street, right outside our apartment,

0:19:09.408 --> 0:19:12.248
<v Speaker 2>and he just couldn't take it anymore and got down

0:19:12.288 --> 0:19:15.488
<v Speaker 2>on one knee. I don't even remember what he said.

0:19:15.888 --> 0:19:19.728
<v Speaker 2>I was in activewear and looked shocking. And a lady

0:19:19.768 --> 0:19:21.928
<v Speaker 2>was turning the corner as he got down on one knee,

0:19:22.008 --> 0:19:23.928
<v Speaker 2>and she said, oh my God, give me your phone

0:19:23.928 --> 0:19:25.808
<v Speaker 2>and took my phone and took a photo of it

0:19:25.928 --> 0:19:31.008
<v Speaker 2>for us. I was crying. I was beside myself with joy,

0:19:31.688 --> 0:19:34.208
<v Speaker 2>and I of course said yes instantly, and we went

0:19:34.288 --> 0:19:38.167
<v Speaker 2>upstairs and we called my dad and told my dad.

0:19:38.328 --> 0:19:41.808
<v Speaker 2>I think my mom drove over with the phone to

0:19:41.928 --> 0:19:44.048
<v Speaker 2>my dad. She was somewhere else at that point. I

0:19:44.048 --> 0:19:45.648
<v Speaker 2>think she was at a friend's house. Well, my dad

0:19:45.728 --> 0:19:47.167
<v Speaker 2>was at home, and my dad drove over to my

0:19:47.248 --> 0:19:50.128
<v Speaker 2>mom at a friend's house, and we told them together

0:19:50.168 --> 0:19:52.648
<v Speaker 2>on the phone, and then we called my grandma and

0:19:52.688 --> 0:19:55.568
<v Speaker 2>we did the rounds, and then we had to go

0:19:55.688 --> 0:19:58.608
<v Speaker 2>to this engagement party where we obviously didn't say anything,

0:19:59.168 --> 0:20:02.248
<v Speaker 2>didn't tell anyone, and let my friend have her moment.

0:20:02.568 --> 0:20:04.447
<v Speaker 2>But the whole time we were just giddy because we

0:20:04.488 --> 0:20:08.168
<v Speaker 2>had this secret. We posted about it on Facebook afterwards,

0:20:08.568 --> 0:20:11.568
<v Speaker 2>and I remember my phone was just blowing up and

0:20:11.648 --> 0:20:14.568
<v Speaker 2>everyone was saying, I'm so excited you but I'm so surprised,

0:20:14.928 --> 0:20:16.407
<v Speaker 2>and I would just say, when you know, you know,

0:20:16.848 --> 0:20:19.808
<v Speaker 2>and I know he's my person, he's the one, He's

0:20:19.848 --> 0:20:23.168
<v Speaker 2>the love of my life. It was a really exciting

0:20:23.208 --> 0:20:25.368
<v Speaker 2>time anyway, just being in that engagement bubble. There was

0:20:25.408 --> 0:20:29.008
<v Speaker 2>no rush to get married, but there was a need

0:20:29.048 --> 0:20:32.128
<v Speaker 2>for us to look at our finances and really get

0:20:32.128 --> 0:20:35.488
<v Speaker 2>real about saving so we could be ready for a wedding.

0:20:37.208 --> 0:20:40.648
<v Speaker 1>Just five months after that first fateful dm, Kate had

0:20:40.688 --> 0:20:43.927
<v Speaker 1>a ring on her finger and a future unfolding before her.

0:20:44.448 --> 0:20:47.648
<v Speaker 1>And around that time another big decision presented itself.

0:20:47.968 --> 0:20:50.208
<v Speaker 2>My family had said they'd help us by our first

0:20:50.208 --> 0:20:53.368
<v Speaker 2>place together, given we were engaged. We found the apartment,

0:20:54.008 --> 0:20:56.888
<v Speaker 2>and this was in the space of a couple of

0:20:56.888 --> 0:21:00.968
<v Speaker 2>weeks of looking. It was the perfect corner apartment, beautiful view,

0:21:01.528 --> 0:21:03.848
<v Speaker 2>really easy to give a little facelift and make our

0:21:03.888 --> 0:21:06.808
<v Speaker 2>own really quickly and not for too much money. So

0:21:06.968 --> 0:21:11.728
<v Speaker 2>we decided we'd go for it, and we bought this place.

0:21:12.008 --> 0:21:15.328
<v Speaker 2>It all happened very very quickly. We instantly made an

0:21:15.328 --> 0:21:19.008
<v Speaker 2>appointment at the bank to merge our finances. I work

0:21:19.288 --> 0:21:21.488
<v Speaker 2>in finance, so this is something that was really important

0:21:21.528 --> 0:21:23.368
<v Speaker 2>to me, so we could move together as a couple

0:21:23.488 --> 0:21:27.848
<v Speaker 2>and move forward. And we decided to consolidate our debts.

0:21:28.008 --> 0:21:29.928
<v Speaker 2>We both had a credit card debt at the time,

0:21:30.288 --> 0:21:32.608
<v Speaker 2>and we thought, let's put that into a personal loan

0:21:32.608 --> 0:21:34.728
<v Speaker 2>that we can easily pay off and open a joint

0:21:34.728 --> 0:21:37.687
<v Speaker 2>account so we can start saving for the wedding. So

0:21:37.888 --> 0:21:40.368
<v Speaker 2>at the meeting with the bank, he ends up being

0:21:40.368 --> 0:21:42.648
<v Speaker 2>the one to take out the personal loan and we

0:21:42.808 --> 0:21:45.848
<v Speaker 2>use that money to pay off my credit card, his

0:21:45.928 --> 0:21:48.688
<v Speaker 2>credit card, and then an extra four thousand dollars was

0:21:48.728 --> 0:21:51.648
<v Speaker 2>added to that personal loan to pay for his mum's

0:21:51.688 --> 0:21:54.768
<v Speaker 2>burial fees. He said, we're still outstanding and left on

0:21:54.848 --> 0:21:58.048
<v Speaker 2>him to pay because his stepdad was refusing to pay

0:21:58.168 --> 0:22:01.408
<v Speaker 2>for those fees. She'd only died about a year before,

0:22:01.648 --> 0:22:06.328
<v Speaker 2>he said, so. Essentially, he told me that she was

0:22:06.368 --> 0:22:10.688
<v Speaker 2>being buried in the cemetery, and he needed to pay

0:22:10.728 --> 0:22:14.608
<v Speaker 2>off those fees from when she'd passed. So everything was

0:22:14.648 --> 0:22:18.007
<v Speaker 2>going so well. I was on cloud nine, still in

0:22:18.048 --> 0:22:21.288
<v Speaker 2>my engagement bubble. We just bought our first apartment and

0:22:21.328 --> 0:22:24.368
<v Speaker 2>were waiting to settle and move in. My family loved Ben,

0:22:24.448 --> 0:22:28.247
<v Speaker 2>my friends loved Ben. We were freshly engaged and just

0:22:28.808 --> 0:22:31.608
<v Speaker 2>ready to start that next, more adult chapter of our

0:22:31.608 --> 0:22:36.007
<v Speaker 2>lives together. When we joined our finances, we decided to

0:22:36.368 --> 0:22:38.728
<v Speaker 2>set some savings goals. I owned a little bit more

0:22:38.768 --> 0:22:41.848
<v Speaker 2>than Ben at this point and made it really clear

0:22:41.888 --> 0:22:45.288
<v Speaker 2>to him that what's mine is what's his is mine.

0:22:45.328 --> 0:22:47.528
<v Speaker 2>I would be happy to help pay off those burial

0:22:47.568 --> 0:22:51.248
<v Speaker 2>fees on the person alone. A couple of weeks later,

0:22:51.888 --> 0:22:54.368
<v Speaker 2>we go out with my friends and the friend that

0:22:54.448 --> 0:22:58.128
<v Speaker 2>had told me about the cheating in February was out

0:22:58.128 --> 0:23:01.848
<v Speaker 2>with us and Ben and this friend ended up reconciling

0:23:02.048 --> 0:23:06.007
<v Speaker 2>that night and we were having the best time. We

0:23:06.008 --> 0:23:08.808
<v Speaker 2>were at a Korean bar and dancing on the tables,

0:23:09.288 --> 0:23:13.888
<v Speaker 2>making friends with everyone, drinking copious amounts of sojo. During

0:23:13.928 --> 0:23:19.328
<v Speaker 2>that night. While Ben was reconciling with my friend, he'd

0:23:19.368 --> 0:23:21.728
<v Speaker 2>given me his phone, which was really rare for him,

0:23:22.128 --> 0:23:25.448
<v Speaker 2>as he never let me touch his phone, but after

0:23:25.488 --> 0:23:28.528
<v Speaker 2>the cheating incident, he'd actually changed his passcode to the

0:23:28.528 --> 0:23:30.168
<v Speaker 2>same one as mine to give me peace of mind,

0:23:30.208 --> 0:23:32.208
<v Speaker 2>and I said, I'll never need to use it. I'll

0:23:32.208 --> 0:23:34.888
<v Speaker 2>never go through your phone. And while he was at

0:23:34.888 --> 0:23:38.168
<v Speaker 2>the bar reconciling with my friend, I decided to go

0:23:38.248 --> 0:23:41.167
<v Speaker 2>on to his phone and unblock that particular friend, given

0:23:41.168 --> 0:23:43.448
<v Speaker 2>they were making up. I don't know why. I think

0:23:43.488 --> 0:23:45.288
<v Speaker 2>I was drunk too, It was just a drunk decision.

0:23:45.328 --> 0:23:48.407
<v Speaker 2>And when I saw his blocked list, I noticed a

0:23:48.408 --> 0:23:51.448
<v Speaker 2>couple of names that stood out that were names of

0:23:51.488 --> 0:23:55.648
<v Speaker 2>his family members. So later on that night, Ben was

0:23:55.688 --> 0:23:59.728
<v Speaker 2>extremely drunk and he left his phone next to me

0:24:00.208 --> 0:24:02.208
<v Speaker 2>when he passed out in bed, and I went back

0:24:02.248 --> 0:24:04.608
<v Speaker 2>on and had a look. It's something I'm not proud

0:24:04.648 --> 0:24:06.408
<v Speaker 2>of and had never done before and had never even

0:24:06.448 --> 0:24:08.967
<v Speaker 2>thought of before. But something told me go back and

0:24:09.008 --> 0:24:11.248
<v Speaker 2>look at those names, and it was the names of

0:24:11.288 --> 0:24:15.688
<v Speaker 2>his dad and multiple names of his mum, And I thought,

0:24:15.688 --> 0:24:19.168
<v Speaker 2>this is really strange. His mom's dead and why would

0:24:19.168 --> 0:24:22.407
<v Speaker 2>there be multiple accounts with her name blocked? And I

0:24:22.448 --> 0:24:25.728
<v Speaker 2>went into his message requests and there was a message

0:24:25.768 --> 0:24:29.288
<v Speaker 2>from another account with his mum's name, and she was

0:24:29.408 --> 0:24:33.528
<v Speaker 2>essentially saying I'm so sorry, I'm clean now, or something

0:24:33.528 --> 0:24:37.728
<v Speaker 2>along those lines. And I've left a man's name I'm

0:24:37.768 --> 0:24:42.208
<v Speaker 2>assuming maybe his stepdad, please message me. I believe the

0:24:42.248 --> 0:24:46.247
<v Speaker 2>message was sent quite recently, not too much earlier, and

0:24:46.328 --> 0:24:50.448
<v Speaker 2>we had actually acknowledged the date of his mom's death

0:24:51.528 --> 0:24:53.888
<v Speaker 2>quite early on. I think it was in March. From memory,

0:24:53.968 --> 0:24:57.608
<v Speaker 2>he was really upset one day and we acknowledged the

0:24:57.648 --> 0:24:59.648
<v Speaker 2>fact that his mum had died. He posted a photo

0:24:59.688 --> 0:25:03.688
<v Speaker 2>of her on social media and said miss you. And

0:25:04.208 --> 0:25:06.447
<v Speaker 2>I remember lying in bed with him and he was

0:25:06.488 --> 0:25:10.848
<v Speaker 2>really upset talking about her death. So to see her

0:25:11.008 --> 0:25:15.248
<v Speaker 2>in his DMS in his message requests was a big shock.

0:25:15.688 --> 0:25:17.288
<v Speaker 2>And then I put two and two together that she

0:25:17.408 --> 0:25:24.167
<v Speaker 2>wasn't dead. I instantly went on that cemetery website and

0:25:24.208 --> 0:25:26.328
<v Speaker 2>I searched her name. It was nowhere to be found.

0:25:27.248 --> 0:25:30.848
<v Speaker 2>I searched her name on Google, couldn't find any information

0:25:30.888 --> 0:25:34.368
<v Speaker 2>at all about her or her death. And I just

0:25:34.448 --> 0:25:36.808
<v Speaker 2>knew in my gut she was alive and not dead,

0:25:36.888 --> 0:25:41.167
<v Speaker 2>and that he had lied about it. I felt really confused.

0:25:41.648 --> 0:25:45.328
<v Speaker 2>I felt betrayed, but something in me said don't jump

0:25:45.368 --> 0:25:48.128
<v Speaker 2>to conclusions. Just again, bring it up with him and

0:25:48.128 --> 0:25:50.568
<v Speaker 2>see what he has to say. I believe he's a

0:25:50.608 --> 0:25:52.848
<v Speaker 2>really good person, and if he told me that she

0:25:52.968 --> 0:25:56.608
<v Speaker 2>was dead, it was for good reason. And he obviously

0:25:56.608 --> 0:25:59.288
<v Speaker 2>didn't want to tell me the truth for one reason

0:25:59.368 --> 0:26:02.088
<v Speaker 2>or another. So the next morning, when he woke up,

0:26:02.128 --> 0:26:05.208
<v Speaker 2>I confronted him. I was open with him and told

0:26:05.248 --> 0:26:07.048
<v Speaker 2>him I'd been through his phone while he was asleep

0:26:07.048 --> 0:26:10.088
<v Speaker 2>and I saw this message. He told me that it

0:26:10.168 --> 0:26:13.448
<v Speaker 2>was his younger half brothers on his mom's side, and

0:26:13.488 --> 0:26:17.208
<v Speaker 2>that they were pretending to be his mom to get

0:26:17.208 --> 0:26:20.288
<v Speaker 2>money from him, because he'd previously been sending them money

0:26:20.328 --> 0:26:23.848
<v Speaker 2>to support them. I knew in my guard that this

0:26:24.008 --> 0:26:26.928
<v Speaker 2>wasn't true, and I just gave up the fight at

0:26:26.968 --> 0:26:30.248
<v Speaker 2>some point and accepted, he's not going to tell me

0:26:30.288 --> 0:26:32.288
<v Speaker 2>the truth here, but I knew his mom was alive.

0:26:33.168 --> 0:26:35.128
<v Speaker 2>I remember I went out for dinner with a friend

0:26:35.168 --> 0:26:37.568
<v Speaker 2>a couple of weeks later, and I told her about

0:26:37.568 --> 0:26:39.568
<v Speaker 2>what i'd seen and what I knew and what he

0:26:39.608 --> 0:26:42.808
<v Speaker 2>had told me, and she said, look, he seems like

0:26:42.808 --> 0:26:46.048
<v Speaker 2>a really good person, and you're right, he probably wouldn't

0:26:46.048 --> 0:26:48.048
<v Speaker 2>say that his mom's dead if it wasn't just the

0:26:48.088 --> 0:26:51.128
<v Speaker 2>easiest option. What other reason could that be? And so

0:26:51.208 --> 0:26:54.168
<v Speaker 2>I actually felt really sorry for him in the message

0:26:54.168 --> 0:26:58.408
<v Speaker 2>because it had mentioned from his mum that I'm clean

0:26:58.488 --> 0:27:03.568
<v Speaker 2>now and I've left my partner. I just knew, okay,

0:27:03.928 --> 0:27:06.888
<v Speaker 2>this relationship wasn't great, and he had been honest about

0:27:06.928 --> 0:27:09.407
<v Speaker 2>the fact that there were substance abuse issues there and

0:27:09.448 --> 0:27:12.568
<v Speaker 2>it was clearly a broken relationship. So I just decided,

0:27:12.608 --> 0:27:15.168
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to let this go and I'm not going

0:27:15.208 --> 0:27:17.528
<v Speaker 2>to push this and cause a huge fight. I mean,

0:27:17.928 --> 0:27:19.967
<v Speaker 2>what is the big deal? But then there was a

0:27:20.048 --> 0:27:22.368
<v Speaker 2>question of the personal loan and where that money had gone.

0:27:23.208 --> 0:27:26.608
<v Speaker 2>So I again just decided to let it go and

0:27:26.688 --> 0:27:28.568
<v Speaker 2>not cause a fight from it, and just accept that

0:27:28.848 --> 0:27:31.568
<v Speaker 2>he's telling me this because it's the easiest way and

0:27:31.608 --> 0:27:32.968
<v Speaker 2>he doesn't want to admit to the truth.

0:27:33.288 --> 0:27:36.648
<v Speaker 1>While part of Kate rationalized and trying to understand the situation,

0:27:37.328 --> 0:27:39.968
<v Speaker 1>there was a niggling feeling that wouldn't go away.

0:27:40.648 --> 0:27:42.888
<v Speaker 2>What I felt really uncomfortable about was the fact that

0:27:42.968 --> 0:27:46.048
<v Speaker 2>my whole family and whole friendship group knew that his

0:27:46.128 --> 0:27:48.247
<v Speaker 2>mum was dead, and when they'd ask me about him,

0:27:48.288 --> 0:27:51.528
<v Speaker 2>I'd say, well, he doesn't talk to his family. They're estranged,

0:27:51.528 --> 0:27:54.008
<v Speaker 2>and his mother passed away. His dad had left when

0:27:54.008 --> 0:27:56.928
<v Speaker 2>he was really young and started a new family, and

0:27:57.608 --> 0:28:00.168
<v Speaker 2>he had a lot of trauma that he hadn't worked through,

0:28:00.928 --> 0:28:03.328
<v Speaker 2>but he was happy on his own and had always

0:28:03.328 --> 0:28:06.568
<v Speaker 2>made it work with his previous partners. My mind then

0:28:06.688 --> 0:28:09.088
<v Speaker 2>turned to, well, what's this four thousand dollar burial feed

0:28:09.128 --> 0:28:11.488
<v Speaker 2>that I'm paying off and other fees that were paying

0:28:11.528 --> 0:28:14.167
<v Speaker 2>off together. And at that point I'd paid off maybe

0:28:14.208 --> 0:28:16.888
<v Speaker 2>half of that amount plus my own or I was

0:28:16.928 --> 0:28:18.808
<v Speaker 2>in the process of paying off half of that amount

0:28:18.848 --> 0:28:22.288
<v Speaker 2>plus my own debt with our person alone. There was

0:28:22.368 --> 0:28:25.808
<v Speaker 2>so many instances where he was taking me out for

0:28:25.928 --> 0:28:29.687
<v Speaker 2>extravagant dinners and buying me flowers and other gifts. Especially

0:28:29.768 --> 0:28:32.368
<v Speaker 2>on my birthday. He'd absolutely spoiled me. I had so

0:28:32.448 --> 0:28:35.048
<v Speaker 2>many gifts waiting for me when I woke up, and

0:28:35.088 --> 0:28:38.928
<v Speaker 2>I just was so confused. Where did that money go?

0:28:38.968 --> 0:28:40.608
<v Speaker 2>And I think I just put two and two together

0:28:40.648 --> 0:28:42.848
<v Speaker 2>in my head. Okay, he spent that, I think on me.

0:28:43.688 --> 0:28:45.288
<v Speaker 2>I knew at this point that I was ignoring some

0:28:45.328 --> 0:28:48.808
<v Speaker 2>really big red flags, but the good just outweighed the bad,

0:28:49.528 --> 0:28:51.568
<v Speaker 2>and you know, these were just a couple of little

0:28:51.608 --> 0:28:54.328
<v Speaker 2>hiccups in my mind, and we were engaged. He was

0:28:54.328 --> 0:28:57.368
<v Speaker 2>still the best person I knew, the person I trusted

0:28:57.888 --> 0:29:00.008
<v Speaker 2>and spent twenty four to seven with other than work.

0:29:00.408 --> 0:29:03.568
<v Speaker 2>When things were good, he was incredible. I would come

0:29:03.568 --> 0:29:05.608
<v Speaker 2>home and he would have written I love you and

0:29:05.768 --> 0:29:08.648
<v Speaker 2>tea light candles across my floor, and he'd write me

0:29:08.688 --> 0:29:12.088
<v Speaker 2>love notes, and there would be texts that he'd send

0:29:12.088 --> 0:29:14.048
<v Speaker 2>me in the middle of the day that were so romantic.

0:29:14.128 --> 0:29:16.808
<v Speaker 2>And I wasn't a romantic like him, and it didn't

0:29:16.808 --> 0:29:20.648
<v Speaker 2>come naturally to me. So I was slowly just warming

0:29:20.808 --> 0:29:23.248
<v Speaker 2>to this love that I was receiving it all times

0:29:23.248 --> 0:29:25.448
<v Speaker 2>of the day. And you know, I'd come home and

0:29:25.528 --> 0:29:27.528
<v Speaker 2>he would cook me dinner every night or take me

0:29:27.568 --> 0:29:31.808
<v Speaker 2>out for dinner, and everything just seemed perfect, other than

0:29:32.288 --> 0:29:35.088
<v Speaker 2>he'd cheated on me and he'd lied to me. And

0:29:35.128 --> 0:29:39.328
<v Speaker 2>I kept thinking, this is all completely opposite to how

0:29:39.448 --> 0:29:43.688
<v Speaker 2>my ex partner Jake treated me, and I'd rather this

0:29:44.128 --> 0:29:46.688
<v Speaker 2>than have him scream at me, block me, yell at me.

0:29:47.568 --> 0:29:50.248
<v Speaker 2>And I just thought this is the only alternative for myself.

0:29:50.328 --> 0:29:52.808
<v Speaker 2>I didn't actually ever entertain the idea of breaking up

0:29:52.928 --> 0:29:55.048
<v Speaker 2>with him. I never entertained the idea of being alone.

0:29:55.328 --> 0:29:58.248
<v Speaker 2>I just thought, this is our life together, now, this

0:29:58.448 --> 0:30:01.328
<v Speaker 2>was it, and I was blissfully happy. I just seemed

0:30:01.328 --> 0:30:04.368
<v Speaker 2>to compartmentalize these two big red flags.

0:30:04.288 --> 0:30:07.368
<v Speaker 1>And there were exciting times ahead, none more so than

0:30:07.408 --> 0:30:09.448
<v Speaker 1>finally moving into their very own apartment.

0:30:09.968 --> 0:30:13.728
<v Speaker 2>It feels like this fresh start. We are happy beyond,

0:30:14.448 --> 0:30:17.848
<v Speaker 2>and we make this apartment our home. We host my

0:30:17.928 --> 0:30:22.008
<v Speaker 2>family from interstate all the time, we have our friends

0:30:22.008 --> 0:30:24.728
<v Speaker 2>over all the time. It's just us and our cat,

0:30:24.888 --> 0:30:27.568
<v Speaker 2>and we're just in this little love bubble. Saving to

0:30:27.568 --> 0:30:32.208
<v Speaker 2>get ready for our marriage. We went into state and

0:30:32.288 --> 0:30:35.888
<v Speaker 2>visited some family. We had some great experiences together. I

0:30:35.928 --> 0:30:38.128
<v Speaker 2>took him to the UFC for his birthday. It was

0:30:38.248 --> 0:30:42.808
<v Speaker 2>his absolute passion. We absolutely just move forward together and

0:30:42.888 --> 0:30:45.128
<v Speaker 2>was stronger than ever, and I just felt like I

0:30:45.168 --> 0:30:47.888
<v Speaker 2>trusted him completely and holy, and there were no red

0:30:47.888 --> 0:30:50.808
<v Speaker 2>flags that he was looking any other way or telling

0:30:50.808 --> 0:30:53.888
<v Speaker 2>me any other lies. We just had the best, most

0:30:53.928 --> 0:30:58.408
<v Speaker 2>perfect year, just us in our pre marriage bubble, just

0:30:58.608 --> 0:31:02.888
<v Speaker 2>absolutely enjoying each other's company and everything was great. We

0:31:03.408 --> 0:31:06.768
<v Speaker 2>rarely fought. If we did, it was about silly things

0:31:06.888 --> 0:31:10.408
<v Speaker 2>like him wanting to earn more money, so he could

0:31:10.528 --> 0:31:13.168
<v Speaker 2>kind of catch up to me, or we would fight

0:31:13.648 --> 0:31:17.488
<v Speaker 2>about who would clean the kitchen and little silly things

0:31:17.528 --> 0:31:19.088
<v Speaker 2>like that. There was nothing major.

0:31:19.128 --> 0:31:21.808
<v Speaker 1>With the wedding approaching. Things were in such a good place.

0:31:22.128 --> 0:31:24.208
<v Speaker 1>It prompted a pretty important conversation.

0:31:24.568 --> 0:31:26.448
<v Speaker 2>It was a couple of nights before and my mom

0:31:26.488 --> 0:31:29.808
<v Speaker 2>had said to me while we were alone, how's Ben

0:31:29.888 --> 0:31:33.128
<v Speaker 2>feeling with none of his family attending the wedding? And

0:31:33.208 --> 0:31:36.568
<v Speaker 2>I said, well, my family is his family, and my

0:31:36.688 --> 0:31:38.968
<v Speaker 2>mom had kind of realized something was off with the

0:31:39.008 --> 0:31:42.208
<v Speaker 2>story about his mom being dead, and I think I

0:31:42.448 --> 0:31:44.128
<v Speaker 2>was trying so hard to cover for him, but I

0:31:44.128 --> 0:31:46.968
<v Speaker 2>didn't want to continue lying to my mom, so I said, well,

0:31:46.968 --> 0:31:49.608
<v Speaker 2>he thinks his mother's dead. We don't know if she's

0:31:49.648 --> 0:31:51.848
<v Speaker 2>actually dead. He was told by his brothers that she

0:31:52.008 --> 0:31:53.768
<v Speaker 2>was dead, and my mom knew that we'd taken out

0:31:53.768 --> 0:31:56.608
<v Speaker 2>this personal loan, so she kept saying, but what about

0:31:56.608 --> 0:31:58.888
<v Speaker 2>the burial fees then? And I said, oh, I think

0:31:59.088 --> 0:32:00.768
<v Speaker 2>there are other fees that were to do with her

0:32:00.808 --> 0:32:03.288
<v Speaker 2>mum's death. I don't know, And I just remember being

0:32:03.328 --> 0:32:06.808
<v Speaker 2>really cagy to my mom and feeling so awful for

0:32:06.888 --> 0:32:10.088
<v Speaker 2>lying to her, but also trying to get my and

0:32:10.088 --> 0:32:11.848
<v Speaker 2>get Ben out of the fact that my mom thought

0:32:11.848 --> 0:32:17.328
<v Speaker 2>that his mum was absolutely dead, and that really shocked

0:32:17.368 --> 0:32:19.448
<v Speaker 2>me and rocked me a couple of days before the

0:32:19.488 --> 0:32:22.128
<v Speaker 2>wedding having that conversation. So I brought it up with

0:32:22.208 --> 0:32:24.928
<v Speaker 2>him a couple of nights beforehand and I said, I

0:32:24.928 --> 0:32:27.848
<v Speaker 2>know your mom's alive, and he didn't deny it and

0:32:27.888 --> 0:32:31.408
<v Speaker 2>finally admitted to it. And I remember we had this

0:32:31.528 --> 0:32:35.048
<v Speaker 2>really mature, healthy discussion. He didn't try and make any excuses.

0:32:35.088 --> 0:32:36.848
<v Speaker 2>He just said it was what I thought. And he

0:32:36.888 --> 0:32:38.808
<v Speaker 2>said it was easier to tell people that she's dead.

0:32:39.168 --> 0:32:42.208
<v Speaker 2>And I said, okay, well, I'm still going to marry you.

0:32:42.848 --> 0:32:48.688
<v Speaker 2>And that was that. Our wedding day was the best

0:32:48.768 --> 0:32:52.608
<v Speaker 2>day of my life. It was the easiest, easiest wedding

0:32:52.608 --> 0:32:56.448
<v Speaker 2>preparation that year. Everything had gone to plan. We had

0:32:56.448 --> 0:32:59.288
<v Speaker 2>the best bridal party. We had so much fun. We

0:32:59.328 --> 0:33:02.848
<v Speaker 2>stayed in an airbnb together the night before and we

0:33:02.888 --> 0:33:05.408
<v Speaker 2>spent the whole day just surrounded by friends and family

0:33:05.448 --> 0:33:08.568
<v Speaker 2>getting ready and getting to our wedding venue. At the wedding,

0:33:09.208 --> 0:33:12.968
<v Speaker 2>we had the best time ever. Everyone was in fits

0:33:12.968 --> 0:33:16.208
<v Speaker 2>of laughter the whole evening. We could not stop laughing.

0:33:16.888 --> 0:33:19.728
<v Speaker 2>My dad cried. My mom and my dad walked me

0:33:19.768 --> 0:33:23.168
<v Speaker 2>down the aisle, and the whole time we were just

0:33:23.248 --> 0:33:26.968
<v Speaker 2>cracking jokes and it was just the most joyous, joyous

0:33:27.048 --> 0:33:30.008
<v Speaker 2>day of my life, surrounded by everyone that loved us,

0:33:30.848 --> 0:33:33.648
<v Speaker 2>all of my friends, all of Ben's friends, all of

0:33:33.688 --> 0:33:36.848
<v Speaker 2>my family had traveled down from interstate to be there,

0:33:37.448 --> 0:33:41.248
<v Speaker 2>and it was the most memorable day. We danced to

0:33:41.688 --> 0:33:45.648
<v Speaker 2>this beautiful song Sunflower by Rex Orange County, and it

0:33:45.768 --> 0:33:48.248
<v Speaker 2>was the most special song to us. Sunflowers are my

0:33:48.248 --> 0:33:51.968
<v Speaker 2>favorite flower, and he bought me sunflower bunches all the time.

0:33:52.528 --> 0:33:56.448
<v Speaker 2>It was the most beautiful, beautiful evening with my favorite song,

0:33:56.488 --> 0:33:59.288
<v Speaker 2>the best music. My dad was so happy, my whole

0:33:59.288 --> 0:34:00.888
<v Speaker 2>family was so happy, and it was just yeah. We

0:34:00.888 --> 0:34:03.248
<v Speaker 2>were surrounded by lad and joy and it was the

0:34:03.328 --> 0:34:03.808
<v Speaker 2>best day.

0:34:04.128 --> 0:34:06.968
<v Speaker 1>It was only fitting their best day ever led straight

0:34:07.008 --> 0:34:09.968
<v Speaker 1>into the trip of a lifetime, the perfect beginning to

0:34:10.008 --> 0:34:10.848
<v Speaker 1>their next chapter.

0:34:11.808 --> 0:34:14.248
<v Speaker 2>It was our first kind of proper holiday overseas together.

0:34:14.848 --> 0:34:17.848
<v Speaker 2>It was perfect, and we went to Paris, we went

0:34:17.888 --> 0:34:20.128
<v Speaker 2>to Rome, we went to Amsterdam and other places. It

0:34:20.168 --> 0:34:23.488
<v Speaker 2>was just the dream Europe trip for us, and it

0:34:23.568 --> 0:34:26.728
<v Speaker 2>was so beautiful. Could not have gone better. When we

0:34:26.768 --> 0:34:30.008
<v Speaker 2>got back. We had always said we'd tried for kids,

0:34:30.568 --> 0:34:34.288
<v Speaker 2>and so we were starting to think about trying and

0:34:34.488 --> 0:34:37.488
<v Speaker 2>getting our finances back in order. We hadn't really left

0:34:37.528 --> 0:34:39.648
<v Speaker 2>the wedding with much debt or anything. We had some

0:34:39.728 --> 0:34:42.248
<v Speaker 2>help from my family and had saved really hard together

0:34:42.368 --> 0:34:45.247
<v Speaker 2>to pay off our original credit card debts and then

0:34:45.488 --> 0:34:48.008
<v Speaker 2>be able to fund this wedding ourselves. And we'd done

0:34:48.048 --> 0:34:50.328
<v Speaker 2>a really, really great job at that. So we thought,

0:34:50.408 --> 0:34:52.688
<v Speaker 2>let's regroup, take a couple of months to save and

0:34:52.768 --> 0:34:54.728
<v Speaker 2>also buy some things for ourselves that we hadn't been

0:34:54.768 --> 0:35:00.008
<v Speaker 2>able to while planning and honeymoon saving, and we decided

0:35:00.008 --> 0:35:03.368
<v Speaker 2>that we'd try for kids later that year. Then COVID hit,

0:35:04.368 --> 0:35:10.808
<v Speaker 2>and the first week into COVID, my dad passed away unexpectedly.

0:35:12.008 --> 0:35:15.647
<v Speaker 2>I'll never forget getting that phone call and finding out

0:35:15.688 --> 0:35:21.928
<v Speaker 2>that my dad had died. It was so surreal, and

0:35:21.968 --> 0:35:28.328
<v Speaker 2>I was beside myself. I remember just being almost catatonic

0:35:28.848 --> 0:35:32.488
<v Speaker 2>in bed, and Ben was just beside himself as well.

0:35:32.768 --> 0:35:35.808
<v Speaker 2>My dad was like his dad, and I remember he

0:35:35.808 --> 0:35:38.167
<v Speaker 2>held me all night until we got up to catch

0:35:38.208 --> 0:35:40.768
<v Speaker 2>a plane at six am. The next morning. We flew

0:35:40.768 --> 0:35:43.607
<v Speaker 2>into State to be with my family and I said,

0:35:43.688 --> 0:35:46.527
<v Speaker 2>I want to go to the spot where my dad

0:35:46.528 --> 0:35:49.167
<v Speaker 2>had passed. He had passed really suddenly while riding a bike,

0:35:50.168 --> 0:35:53.567
<v Speaker 2>and I all night had had these visions of where

0:35:53.608 --> 0:35:56.848
<v Speaker 2>my dad was, and luckily we knew he'd passed really

0:35:56.888 --> 0:36:00.687
<v Speaker 2>quickly from a heart attack and he was most likely

0:36:00.688 --> 0:36:02.528
<v Speaker 2>dead before he hit the ground, so he didn't suffer.

0:36:02.928 --> 0:36:05.448
<v Speaker 2>And we knew he'd left a cafe twenty minutes before that,

0:36:06.128 --> 0:36:10.087
<v Speaker 2>so it wasn't long before he was found. And I said,

0:36:10.088 --> 0:36:11.368
<v Speaker 2>I want to go to the spot and I want

0:36:11.368 --> 0:36:13.848
<v Speaker 2>to see Dad. I want to see his body. And

0:36:14.848 --> 0:36:17.848
<v Speaker 2>my older brother and sister decided to come to We

0:36:17.928 --> 0:36:20.008
<v Speaker 2>drove a couple of hours to where my dad had

0:36:20.048 --> 0:36:22.968
<v Speaker 2>been staying at my sister's house house sitting for them,

0:36:23.808 --> 0:36:27.328
<v Speaker 2>and Ben was by my side the whole time. He

0:36:27.448 --> 0:36:29.488
<v Speaker 2>was holding my hand. He never let me out of

0:36:29.528 --> 0:36:33.728
<v Speaker 2>his sight. He was there comforting my family. He kissed

0:36:33.768 --> 0:36:35.567
<v Speaker 2>my dad on the cheek or the forehead when we

0:36:35.568 --> 0:36:37.888
<v Speaker 2>saw his body. He came with us to the location

0:36:38.448 --> 0:36:40.728
<v Speaker 2>where my dad had passed, and he was just the

0:36:40.728 --> 0:36:43.567
<v Speaker 2>perfect husband. In that moment. I knew he was just

0:36:43.608 --> 0:36:47.848
<v Speaker 2>as devastated as I was. The last messages from my

0:36:47.968 --> 0:36:50.928
<v Speaker 2>dad that i'd received the day before to me and

0:36:51.008 --> 0:36:53.968
<v Speaker 2>not to our group chat were my dad asking how

0:36:54.008 --> 0:36:58.408
<v Speaker 2>Ben was. And I'll never forget that that's the last

0:36:58.408 --> 0:37:02.728
<v Speaker 2>thing my dad had heard from me. After that, everything

0:37:02.808 --> 0:37:07.368
<v Speaker 2>kind of changed in terms of our mindset around kids.

0:37:08.168 --> 0:37:10.888
<v Speaker 2>I really wanted to start trying sooner rather than later,

0:37:11.368 --> 0:37:16.087
<v Speaker 2>and I kept thinking, well, COVID's just hit. What if

0:37:16.648 --> 0:37:20.168
<v Speaker 2>my grandma passes, or what if my mom something happened

0:37:20.208 --> 0:37:23.168
<v Speaker 2>to my mom? And so I really wanted to start trying,

0:37:23.888 --> 0:37:27.488
<v Speaker 2>and all of a sudden Ben wanted the opposite, and

0:37:27.528 --> 0:37:30.488
<v Speaker 2>he said, I'm not ready. I think this is really

0:37:30.608 --> 0:37:33.567
<v Speaker 2>changed the way I feel about it, and just want

0:37:33.608 --> 0:37:36.248
<v Speaker 2>to do some things for myself first. And I said

0:37:36.248 --> 0:37:37.928
<v Speaker 2>what are those things? And he said, I want to

0:37:38.288 --> 0:37:41.607
<v Speaker 2>get my blue belt in jiu jitsu, I want to

0:37:41.648 --> 0:37:44.127
<v Speaker 2>fix up the shitty tattoos that I have that I'm

0:37:44.168 --> 0:37:47.688
<v Speaker 2>not proud of. And I want to earn X amount

0:37:47.728 --> 0:37:50.288
<v Speaker 2>of money. And there were these things that he wanted,

0:37:50.288 --> 0:37:51.888
<v Speaker 2>and I said, well, they're just, you know, things you

0:37:51.888 --> 0:37:54.087
<v Speaker 2>can do anyway, They're not things you need to do

0:37:54.128 --> 0:37:57.168
<v Speaker 2>before we have kids. But eventually I came round and

0:37:57.208 --> 0:37:59.488
<v Speaker 2>I respected his decision and I didn't want to force anything,

0:37:59.608 --> 0:38:02.527
<v Speaker 2>so we put a halt on trying for kids and

0:38:02.648 --> 0:38:06.928
<v Speaker 2>just decided to navigate COVID. We both got promotions during

0:38:06.928 --> 0:38:10.207
<v Speaker 2>that time, and I was working really, really hard while

0:38:10.208 --> 0:38:13.808
<v Speaker 2>we were in lockdown, so was he. And Ben was

0:38:14.248 --> 0:38:16.968
<v Speaker 2>really determined to catch up to me in his career,

0:38:17.528 --> 0:38:20.088
<v Speaker 2>and that was something he was really really self conscious

0:38:20.088 --> 0:38:23.008
<v Speaker 2>about and would be a constant state of discussion for us.

0:38:23.328 --> 0:38:25.928
<v Speaker 2>I kept saying to him, well, I have seven plus

0:38:26.008 --> 0:38:27.928
<v Speaker 2>years on you at my job. You've only just started

0:38:27.928 --> 0:38:29.488
<v Speaker 2>at your job. You need to be patient with yourself

0:38:29.488 --> 0:38:31.848
<v Speaker 2>where it doesn't matter what's mine is yours. I'm not

0:38:31.928 --> 0:38:34.248
<v Speaker 2>thinking that I earn more than you and holding it

0:38:34.288 --> 0:38:36.728
<v Speaker 2>against you. And it wasn't by much at all, but

0:38:36.848 --> 0:38:39.288
<v Speaker 2>somehow he kept putting value on that, and so there

0:38:39.328 --> 0:38:41.128
<v Speaker 2>was a lot of pressure he was putting on himself

0:38:41.168 --> 0:38:43.408
<v Speaker 2>to work really hard, and I knew that that was

0:38:43.408 --> 0:38:47.528
<v Speaker 2>also impacting him and his mental health. I really enjoyed

0:38:47.528 --> 0:38:50.848
<v Speaker 2>COVID because it brought me closer to my family. I

0:38:50.888 --> 0:38:53.368
<v Speaker 2>didn't have to go and talk about the death of

0:38:53.408 --> 0:38:55.688
<v Speaker 2>my father whenever I spoke to someone. Because we were

0:38:55.728 --> 0:38:58.527
<v Speaker 2>all communicating through screens. I was able to kind of

0:38:58.568 --> 0:39:02.808
<v Speaker 2>process my grief alone and be in my own kind

0:39:02.808 --> 0:39:05.128
<v Speaker 2>of little bubble where I was just speaking to the

0:39:05.128 --> 0:39:07.448
<v Speaker 2>friends I wanted to speak to, and I wasn't feeling

0:39:07.448 --> 0:39:09.168
<v Speaker 2>like I needed to go out and all of a

0:39:09.168 --> 0:39:11.928
<v Speaker 2>sudden social So it was a really really great time

0:39:11.968 --> 0:39:15.248
<v Speaker 2>for me, and I was just taking every positive out

0:39:15.248 --> 0:39:16.048
<v Speaker 2>of it that I could.

0:39:16.528 --> 0:39:20.088
<v Speaker 1>One year of navigating lockdowns later, Kaid had been working

0:39:20.088 --> 0:39:22.608
<v Speaker 1>through her grief and things were going pretty well, so

0:39:22.768 --> 0:39:25.648
<v Speaker 1>for like the right time to start trying for a family.

0:39:26.208 --> 0:39:29.008
<v Speaker 2>I was taking the pregnancy vitamins, I was doing all

0:39:29.008 --> 0:39:31.848
<v Speaker 2>the research. I was peeing on the ovulation sticks, taking

0:39:31.848 --> 0:39:34.968
<v Speaker 2>my temperature every single day. We were doing everything we

0:39:34.968 --> 0:39:38.568
<v Speaker 2>could to try for kids properly and feeling really ready

0:39:38.768 --> 0:39:42.448
<v Speaker 2>to do that as well. Not long after this, we

0:39:42.568 --> 0:39:45.208
<v Speaker 2>decided to start looking at houses. I think COVID had

0:39:45.248 --> 0:39:48.408
<v Speaker 2>really solidified for us that we were stuck in this

0:39:48.448 --> 0:39:50.968
<v Speaker 2>two bedroom apartment and needed a bit more space, especially

0:39:50.968 --> 0:39:53.688
<v Speaker 2>if we were trying for kids, and so we started

0:39:53.688 --> 0:39:57.168
<v Speaker 2>the search for our dream home. I had inherited some

0:39:57.288 --> 0:40:01.567
<v Speaker 2>money after my dad's death and really wanted to either

0:40:01.688 --> 0:40:04.808
<v Speaker 2>use that money to travel overseas and take a long

0:40:04.848 --> 0:40:08.128
<v Speaker 2>holiday together post covid or. I wanted to use it

0:40:08.168 --> 0:40:11.288
<v Speaker 2>for property, then was adamant he didn't want to use

0:40:11.288 --> 0:40:14.128
<v Speaker 2>it to go overseas, and we had a few lengthy

0:40:14.128 --> 0:40:16.087
<v Speaker 2>discussions where he said, well, you can just go without me,

0:40:16.728 --> 0:40:19.088
<v Speaker 2>and I was really upset by this. It would normally

0:40:19.168 --> 0:40:22.488
<v Speaker 2>end with myself in tears and I'd say, well, I

0:40:22.488 --> 0:40:24.527
<v Speaker 2>don't want to go overseas without you, and this is

0:40:24.568 --> 0:40:26.167
<v Speaker 2>my money and I want to use it on both

0:40:26.208 --> 0:40:27.888
<v Speaker 2>of us, and I really want to travel and see

0:40:27.888 --> 0:40:30.848
<v Speaker 2>the world, especially before we have kids. But he said no,

0:40:30.968 --> 0:40:32.808
<v Speaker 2>let's use it on property, and I said, okay, well

0:40:32.808 --> 0:40:34.728
<v Speaker 2>that's the other thing I would use it on, so yes,

0:40:34.808 --> 0:40:38.288
<v Speaker 2>let's do that. Then the house hunting was really exciting

0:40:38.328 --> 0:40:40.127
<v Speaker 2>for us. We really had a goal that we were

0:40:40.128 --> 0:40:42.527
<v Speaker 2>both working towards, and we were spending every weekend going

0:40:42.528 --> 0:40:46.608
<v Speaker 2>to inspections. We bid in two different auctions and unfortunately

0:40:46.648 --> 0:40:49.728
<v Speaker 2>weren't successful, and then went on a day where we

0:40:49.728 --> 0:40:51.968
<v Speaker 2>saw seven or eight different properties in the one morning.

0:40:52.408 --> 0:40:54.328
<v Speaker 2>We fell in love with two of them. After the

0:40:54.408 --> 0:40:58.488
<v Speaker 2>second property, which was closer to so many amenities, then

0:40:58.808 --> 0:41:01.648
<v Speaker 2>walked outside and he said, let's put an offer on

0:41:01.688 --> 0:41:04.687
<v Speaker 2>this one. I love this house. It's beautiful, and I said,

0:41:04.688 --> 0:41:07.448
<v Speaker 2>I love it too. I think we should. However, the

0:41:07.488 --> 0:41:09.528
<v Speaker 2>other property was still stuck in both of our minds.

0:41:09.888 --> 0:41:13.128
<v Speaker 2>We got home and had a really lengthy discussion about

0:41:13.168 --> 0:41:17.648
<v Speaker 2>it and Ben said he changed his mind and he

0:41:17.688 --> 0:41:20.408
<v Speaker 2>wanted to go for the other property. So we had

0:41:20.728 --> 0:41:24.048
<v Speaker 2>lengthy discussions that would last well into the night about

0:41:24.048 --> 0:41:26.288
<v Speaker 2>both these properties and whether we should bid on one

0:41:26.328 --> 0:41:29.928
<v Speaker 2>or the other. They were pretty similar in price and

0:41:31.168 --> 0:41:33.687
<v Speaker 2>there were selling points for both, but I was more

0:41:33.728 --> 0:41:36.448
<v Speaker 2>sold on the second property that Ben had originally said

0:41:36.448 --> 0:41:38.647
<v Speaker 2>he really wanted to bid on, and he was really

0:41:38.688 --> 0:41:40.488
<v Speaker 2>sold on the first one that we did both love

0:41:40.568 --> 0:41:43.607
<v Speaker 2>but didn't have that same reaction at first. The first

0:41:43.608 --> 0:41:46.968
<v Speaker 2>property as well, wasn't as close to really important amenities

0:41:47.048 --> 0:41:49.648
<v Speaker 2>like public transport, as I didn't drive, so that was

0:41:49.928 --> 0:41:52.608
<v Speaker 2>a big deciding factor for me. And there was definitely

0:41:52.608 --> 0:41:57.328
<v Speaker 2>some tension during these discussions, and I remember one day

0:41:57.768 --> 0:42:00.968
<v Speaker 2>Ben said, no, it's your money, let's go for the

0:42:00.968 --> 0:42:04.408
<v Speaker 2>one you like, and I said, well, I don't want

0:42:04.408 --> 0:42:07.088
<v Speaker 2>this to be a point of resentment in our relationship

0:42:07.128 --> 0:42:09.527
<v Speaker 2>moving forward. If we're going to buy this, we both

0:42:09.568 --> 0:42:11.568
<v Speaker 2>need to be all in. This is a huge huge

0:42:11.568 --> 0:42:15.328
<v Speaker 2>decision to take out a mortgage this big, and it's

0:42:15.328 --> 0:42:18.087
<v Speaker 2>an absolute thing that we need to be aligned on.

0:42:19.088 --> 0:42:22.607
<v Speaker 2>I continue to have discussions like this with him, and

0:42:23.048 --> 0:42:25.488
<v Speaker 2>he ends up saying, no, I love this property too,

0:42:25.568 --> 0:42:28.168
<v Speaker 2>It's beautiful. We absolutely should go for it. We'd be

0:42:28.208 --> 0:42:30.728
<v Speaker 2>silly not too, and so we put an offer on

0:42:30.768 --> 0:42:34.728
<v Speaker 2>the property. We're really excited when within a day our

0:42:34.768 --> 0:42:39.208
<v Speaker 2>offer gets accepted and it's our first home together, our

0:42:39.208 --> 0:42:43.568
<v Speaker 2>first real house. The house itself had so much character

0:42:43.848 --> 0:42:46.008
<v Speaker 2>and would need a bit of work, but we were

0:42:46.048 --> 0:42:50.128
<v Speaker 2>both ready to take that on. It's a Victorian terrast,

0:42:50.248 --> 0:42:53.848
<v Speaker 2>so was absolutely an investment in terms of it would

0:42:53.848 --> 0:42:58.728
<v Speaker 2>increase in value given the heritage aspect, and the location

0:42:58.968 --> 0:43:02.128
<v Speaker 2>was only just getting more and more popular in the market.

0:43:02.888 --> 0:43:05.968
<v Speaker 2>Once we settle on the house in December twenty twenty one,

0:43:06.408 --> 0:43:11.648
<v Speaker 2>Ben starts acting really distant and I felt him really

0:43:11.808 --> 0:43:15.728
<v Speaker 2>visibly pull away. We celebrated with our friends and we

0:43:15.768 --> 0:43:19.207
<v Speaker 2>took photos outside the for sale sign, putting the salt

0:43:19.248 --> 0:43:21.808
<v Speaker 2>sticker on the house, We went for drinks. We had

0:43:22.528 --> 0:43:25.408
<v Speaker 2>a few days of real joy together and excitement about

0:43:25.448 --> 0:43:28.567
<v Speaker 2>moving into the property. But the moment we settle I

0:43:28.608 --> 0:43:29.568
<v Speaker 2>felt him pull away.

0:43:30.008 --> 0:43:33.448
<v Speaker 1>It was only weeks since they'd achieved this huge milestone together.

0:43:34.008 --> 0:43:36.647
<v Speaker 1>Kate could sense something was wrong. She just couldn't quite

0:43:36.648 --> 0:43:38.688
<v Speaker 1>put her finger on it, and the lead up to

0:43:38.688 --> 0:43:40.928
<v Speaker 1>Ben's thirtieth it got a whole lot worse.

0:43:41.608 --> 0:43:45.087
<v Speaker 2>The day before Ben's birthday, Ben says, I want to

0:43:45.128 --> 0:43:47.928
<v Speaker 2>take you to dinner. And this was a couple of

0:43:48.008 --> 0:43:51.127
<v Speaker 2>days after we'd moved into the new house, and he said,

0:43:51.208 --> 0:43:53.408
<v Speaker 2>let's go to the pub down the road. And I'd

0:43:53.408 --> 0:43:54.848
<v Speaker 2>been saying, I really want to try it out. It's

0:43:54.848 --> 0:43:57.047
<v Speaker 2>basically our neighbor. Let's go, and so I was really

0:43:57.048 --> 0:43:59.368
<v Speaker 2>excited that he'd asked me to dinner. I got a

0:43:59.408 --> 0:44:01.968
<v Speaker 2>bit dressed up, so did he, and we went to

0:44:02.008 --> 0:44:05.647
<v Speaker 2>the pub together and while we were talking, he brought up,

0:44:05.848 --> 0:44:07.368
<v Speaker 2>out of the blue, what if I don't want to

0:44:07.368 --> 0:44:13.208
<v Speaker 2>be married anymore? My heart sunk, and I remember I

0:44:13.248 --> 0:44:18.408
<v Speaker 2>instantly started crying in the pub. And we talked and

0:44:18.448 --> 0:44:20.808
<v Speaker 2>talked and talked about it, and I was so confused,

0:44:20.888 --> 0:44:23.167
<v Speaker 2>and I said, what is this, what's going on? Why

0:44:23.168 --> 0:44:26.488
<v Speaker 2>don't you want to be married anymore? And he essentially

0:44:26.528 --> 0:44:29.768
<v Speaker 2>said that he doesn't see a life with me anymore

0:44:30.168 --> 0:44:33.808
<v Speaker 2>and wanted some time to himself for his thirtieth I

0:44:33.848 --> 0:44:35.848
<v Speaker 2>had put aside part of my bonus that year and

0:44:35.928 --> 0:44:38.687
<v Speaker 2>taken out ten thousand dollars in cash for a trip

0:44:38.728 --> 0:44:42.168
<v Speaker 2>for us to Japan. And we got home and he said,

0:44:42.728 --> 0:44:46.288
<v Speaker 2>let's do gifts early. And this is after a discussion

0:44:46.288 --> 0:44:48.168
<v Speaker 2>where he said he didn't want to be married anymore.

0:44:49.488 --> 0:44:52.368
<v Speaker 2>And I said, okay, that I feel like this is

0:44:52.368 --> 0:44:54.288
<v Speaker 2>the wrong gift to give you right now. And I

0:44:54.328 --> 0:44:57.248
<v Speaker 2>don't know how you're going to feel about this, because

0:44:57.328 --> 0:45:00.008
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how you'll react and if there'll be

0:45:00.008 --> 0:45:04.328
<v Speaker 2>an imbalance with us. And I gave him his gift

0:45:05.088 --> 0:45:07.448
<v Speaker 2>and he was so excited and so happy, and I said,

0:45:07.448 --> 0:45:09.488
<v Speaker 2>this is for our future Japan trip. We just wanted

0:45:09.488 --> 0:45:12.568
<v Speaker 2>to go to Japan together, and he said he was

0:45:12.608 --> 0:45:17.168
<v Speaker 2>so grateful. He was so thankful, and everything kind of

0:45:17.568 --> 0:45:19.328
<v Speaker 2>went back to normal for the rest of the evening,

0:45:20.128 --> 0:45:23.087
<v Speaker 2>but I felt sick in my stomach. The next day.

0:45:23.328 --> 0:45:27.127
<v Speaker 2>I remember getting home and he said to me, what

0:45:27.168 --> 0:45:28.488
<v Speaker 2>if I don't want to go to Japan with you

0:45:28.528 --> 0:45:31.328
<v Speaker 2>and I want to go alone? And I remember again

0:45:31.368 --> 0:45:33.208
<v Speaker 2>my heart just broke and I just didn't know what

0:45:33.288 --> 0:45:34.968
<v Speaker 2>to say, and I said, well, how could you now,

0:45:34.968 --> 0:45:36.848
<v Speaker 2>I feel like it's like me trying to bribe your

0:45:36.848 --> 0:45:38.848
<v Speaker 2>love and me trying it. This is, you know, something

0:45:38.888 --> 0:45:40.687
<v Speaker 2>I really wanted to do for you and for us,

0:45:40.768 --> 0:45:44.127
<v Speaker 2>and I worked really hard for this money, and it's

0:45:44.488 --> 0:45:46.608
<v Speaker 2>something I want us to have, is a trip to

0:45:46.648 --> 0:45:48.488
<v Speaker 2>look forward to. We keep talking about wanting to go

0:45:48.528 --> 0:45:51.448
<v Speaker 2>to Japan, and now it's we've bought our house, it's

0:45:51.488 --> 0:45:54.808
<v Speaker 2>post COVID. We can go overseas together when the border

0:45:54.888 --> 0:45:56.848
<v Speaker 2>is open. Let's book in this Japan trip. And he said,

0:45:56.888 --> 0:45:59.408
<v Speaker 2>I just I want to go alone. And I just

0:45:59.688 --> 0:46:01.688
<v Speaker 2>I didn't even know what to say. And I knew

0:46:01.848 --> 0:46:04.647
<v Speaker 2>something was very broken with us at that point. So

0:46:04.728 --> 0:46:06.888
<v Speaker 2>I spoke to my mom. I think i'd been speaking

0:46:06.888 --> 0:46:08.808
<v Speaker 2>to her and the lead up to this and saying

0:46:08.808 --> 0:46:12.008
<v Speaker 2>how detached I felt. And I said to her, I

0:46:12.048 --> 0:46:14.768
<v Speaker 2>think I need to come visit you into state, and

0:46:15.848 --> 0:46:19.248
<v Speaker 2>I need to give Ben some space, because clearly he's confused,

0:46:19.248 --> 0:46:21.047
<v Speaker 2>he's lost, he doesn't know what he wants. I think

0:46:21.088 --> 0:46:23.848
<v Speaker 2>turning thirty had really shocked him. I think opening our

0:46:23.848 --> 0:46:26.207
<v Speaker 2>bank account and seeing a million dollars in debt really

0:46:26.208 --> 0:46:30.047
<v Speaker 2>shocked him. I think having to work really hard for

0:46:30.408 --> 0:46:32.968
<v Speaker 2>our money had really shocked him. To be able to

0:46:32.968 --> 0:46:35.567
<v Speaker 2>pay the mortgage, and knowing that things were going to

0:46:35.568 --> 0:46:38.567
<v Speaker 2>be a little bit tighter really shocked him. And he'd

0:46:38.568 --> 0:46:40.087
<v Speaker 2>said he was ready for all these things, and we

0:46:40.088 --> 0:46:43.488
<v Speaker 2>were still trying for kids at this point, and I

0:46:43.528 --> 0:46:45.768
<v Speaker 2>was making assumptions, but I think all of these really

0:46:45.808 --> 0:46:50.848
<v Speaker 2>adult decisions sent him into a complete phase where he

0:46:50.968 --> 0:46:53.168
<v Speaker 2>was just absolutely lost and didn't know how to proceed

0:46:53.168 --> 0:46:55.968
<v Speaker 2>with life. He did put a lot of pressure on

0:46:56.048 --> 0:46:58.288
<v Speaker 2>himself turning thirty, and he said he wasn't where he'd

0:46:58.328 --> 0:47:01.488
<v Speaker 2>imagined himself. And I said, well, you're married, we're trying

0:47:01.488 --> 0:47:03.888
<v Speaker 2>for kids, We've just bought our dream house, and you know,

0:47:03.928 --> 0:47:06.567
<v Speaker 2>people would die to have what we have, like we

0:47:06.648 --> 0:47:10.167
<v Speaker 2>are so privileged, and you know, we are so lucky

0:47:10.168 --> 0:47:11.408
<v Speaker 2>to be where we are in life and to have

0:47:11.448 --> 0:47:13.328
<v Speaker 2>each other and to be a team, and to have

0:47:13.368 --> 0:47:16.368
<v Speaker 2>our health and our stability in our workplaces and the

0:47:16.368 --> 0:47:18.248
<v Speaker 2>friends that we have and the family that I have.

0:47:18.648 --> 0:47:21.408
<v Speaker 2>So what's missing I don't understand. And he just couldn't

0:47:21.448 --> 0:47:23.688
<v Speaker 2>tell me. So I said, all right, I'm going to

0:47:23.728 --> 0:47:26.288
<v Speaker 2>give you some space and I'm going to go to Queensland.

0:47:27.288 --> 0:47:29.968
<v Speaker 2>And I asked him if he'd get counseling with me,

0:47:30.448 --> 0:47:31.167
<v Speaker 2>and he said yes.

0:47:32.088 --> 0:47:35.688
<v Speaker 1>Kate needed space, a safe space, so she packed her

0:47:35.688 --> 0:47:37.888
<v Speaker 1>banks and went into state to stay with their mum.

0:47:38.248 --> 0:47:40.167
<v Speaker 1>What was meant to be a few days turned into

0:47:40.208 --> 0:47:44.408
<v Speaker 1>three weeks. Is Ben's behavior remained cruel and cold. That

0:47:44.648 --> 0:47:46.047
<v Speaker 1>was until Valentine's Day.

0:47:46.328 --> 0:47:49.368
<v Speaker 2>He admitted that he missed me. On Valentine's Day, we

0:47:49.448 --> 0:47:52.527
<v Speaker 2>had a phone call that lasted hours and it was

0:47:52.568 --> 0:47:54.608
<v Speaker 2>like we were back to our old selves. We were laughing,

0:47:55.488 --> 0:47:59.087
<v Speaker 2>we were crying, we were talking about us in our relationship,

0:47:59.448 --> 0:48:02.688
<v Speaker 2>and it was really beautiful. We then go on to

0:48:02.768 --> 0:48:05.528
<v Speaker 2>have our joint counseling session a couple of days later.

0:48:05.608 --> 0:48:08.408
<v Speaker 2>It was our first one with the joint counselor. The

0:48:08.488 --> 0:48:11.047
<v Speaker 2>first thing I remember saying when we got into the

0:48:11.128 --> 0:48:13.248
<v Speaker 2>joint counseling session and it was my time to speak,

0:48:13.408 --> 0:48:17.248
<v Speaker 2>was did you cheat on me? And he said yes,

0:48:17.608 --> 0:48:20.728
<v Speaker 2>I did, and he wanted to wait till the counselor

0:48:20.808 --> 0:48:22.688
<v Speaker 2>was there to admit it to me, and he couldn't

0:48:22.688 --> 0:48:25.528
<v Speaker 2>admit it. The week before, he says he was out drinking.

0:48:25.648 --> 0:48:28.168
<v Speaker 2>He doesn't even remember the girl's name. He says he

0:48:28.208 --> 0:48:31.527
<v Speaker 2>didn't take his wedding ring off when it happened, and

0:48:31.608 --> 0:48:34.808
<v Speaker 2>I was absolutely disgusted and I couldn't believe that he's

0:48:34.808 --> 0:48:37.647
<v Speaker 2>done this to me again. And the counselor said, well,

0:48:37.728 --> 0:48:39.448
<v Speaker 2>you know, now you need to make a decision. Are

0:48:39.488 --> 0:48:42.008
<v Speaker 2>you going to move forward or not? And Ben said,

0:48:42.048 --> 0:48:45.768
<v Speaker 2>I want to be with Kate. I want to be together.

0:48:46.328 --> 0:48:49.288
<v Speaker 2>I absolutely think that the marriage is worth fighting for

0:48:49.328 --> 0:48:50.888
<v Speaker 2>and that we can work through this, and I'm committed

0:48:50.928 --> 0:48:52.567
<v Speaker 2>to doing it. Then I said I need to think

0:48:52.568 --> 0:48:56.928
<v Speaker 2>about this, and I remember leaving the session and going

0:48:56.968 --> 0:48:58.608
<v Speaker 2>and hugging my mum and just crying and saying, he

0:48:58.688 --> 0:49:00.408
<v Speaker 2>cheated on me. He cheated on me. She had no

0:49:00.448 --> 0:49:03.288
<v Speaker 2>idea about the first time when we first started dating.

0:49:03.368 --> 0:49:06.928
<v Speaker 2>I just knew that she would know that this was

0:49:06.968 --> 0:49:10.607
<v Speaker 2>a really big deal for me. And I cried day

0:49:11.328 --> 0:49:12.928
<v Speaker 2>and I remember he texted me and he said, I'm

0:49:12.968 --> 0:49:15.328
<v Speaker 2>so sorry, and I booked a flight for the next

0:49:15.328 --> 0:49:19.167
<v Speaker 2>morning back home. When I got home the next day,

0:49:19.928 --> 0:49:22.848
<v Speaker 2>he was at work all day at his weekend job

0:49:22.888 --> 0:49:26.527
<v Speaker 2>in the warehouse, and he got home really late. I

0:49:26.568 --> 0:49:29.888
<v Speaker 2>remember the moment he got home, we were fighting. He

0:49:30.008 --> 0:49:35.808
<v Speaker 2>was instantly getting aggressive. He'd moved all his belongings out

0:49:35.848 --> 0:49:38.968
<v Speaker 2>of our bedroom into the room downstairs, the spare room,

0:49:40.208 --> 0:49:42.888
<v Speaker 2>and it was like there were two separate people living

0:49:42.888 --> 0:49:45.127
<v Speaker 2>in the house when I got home. Things were really

0:49:45.208 --> 0:49:48.928
<v Speaker 2>rocky after that. The next night after he invited me

0:49:49.048 --> 0:49:52.488
<v Speaker 2>to the warehouse party where he worked now on the weekends,

0:49:53.088 --> 0:49:55.408
<v Speaker 2>and that night we had a fight because I said

0:49:55.448 --> 0:49:57.768
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to go home, and he was threatening to

0:49:57.808 --> 0:50:01.488
<v Speaker 2>drunk drive. He was screaming at me, he was punching

0:50:01.488 --> 0:50:05.208
<v Speaker 2>the steering wheel, threatening to kill himself, using a voice

0:50:05.208 --> 0:50:09.208
<v Speaker 2>that I'd never heard before, and finally I just decided

0:50:09.248 --> 0:50:10.968
<v Speaker 2>to back down and please him and say, okay, I

0:50:10.968 --> 0:50:13.888
<v Speaker 2>will continue to party on tonight. Let's go to Karayoke

0:50:13.968 --> 0:50:16.488
<v Speaker 2>if that's where we're going, And he said great and

0:50:16.528 --> 0:50:19.168
<v Speaker 2>snapped right out of it. We ordered an uber to

0:50:19.208 --> 0:50:21.128
<v Speaker 2>carryoke to catch up with his friends, and I remember

0:50:21.128 --> 0:50:22.568
<v Speaker 2>sitting in the back of the uber. He was in

0:50:22.608 --> 0:50:25.608
<v Speaker 2>the front. I was just crying and crying and crying silently,

0:50:26.008 --> 0:50:27.688
<v Speaker 2>and he turned around and he said, you'd better put

0:50:27.688 --> 0:50:30.848
<v Speaker 2>a smile on your face, and I will never forget

0:50:30.928 --> 0:50:33.608
<v Speaker 2>the tone. I'd never heard anything like that before, and

0:50:33.688 --> 0:50:36.008
<v Speaker 2>I just couldn't say anything. And I think I pretended

0:50:36.048 --> 0:50:38.128
<v Speaker 2>to smile and he said good or something like that,

0:50:38.168 --> 0:50:40.047
<v Speaker 2>and I just kept thinking, this uber driver is going

0:50:40.088 --> 0:50:42.608
<v Speaker 2>to know that he is controlling me right now. And

0:50:42.648 --> 0:50:44.488
<v Speaker 2>I remember thinking, these are red flags, these are red flags,

0:50:44.528 --> 0:50:46.848
<v Speaker 2>these are red flags. This is not his normal behavior.

0:50:47.568 --> 0:50:48.368
<v Speaker 2>It is not okay.

0:50:48.608 --> 0:50:53.288
<v Speaker 1>This rollercoaster of emotions and Ben's behavior were unpredictable and erratic.

0:50:53.688 --> 0:50:56.288
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes it was bad, and sometimes it felt like things

0:50:56.328 --> 0:50:57.968
<v Speaker 1>truly were going back to normal.

0:50:58.528 --> 0:51:01.488
<v Speaker 2>Things after that night seemed to look up. We continue

0:51:01.488 --> 0:51:05.088
<v Speaker 2>to get counseling really regularly. We're working on our communication,

0:51:05.208 --> 0:51:08.528
<v Speaker 2>We're having regular check ins, and a couple of months

0:51:08.568 --> 0:51:12.248
<v Speaker 2>after this period, he says in counseling, I want to

0:51:12.248 --> 0:51:15.928
<v Speaker 2>start trying for babies again, and I say, no, I

0:51:15.968 --> 0:51:19.207
<v Speaker 2>want to make sure we're okay. First, let's focus on us.

0:51:20.128 --> 0:51:23.928
<v Speaker 2>Our intimacy had gotten so much better since I got

0:51:23.968 --> 0:51:26.368
<v Speaker 2>back from that month away, and since we'd been working

0:51:26.408 --> 0:51:29.888
<v Speaker 2>through counseling and everything seemed really, really good. We were

0:51:29.888 --> 0:51:31.968
<v Speaker 2>making a huge effort to go on dates. He took

0:51:32.008 --> 0:51:34.328
<v Speaker 2>me to the sunflower fields, he took me to Dal'sford

0:51:34.968 --> 0:51:38.688
<v Speaker 2>for the weekend. We had day trips and made a

0:51:38.808 --> 0:51:41.527
<v Speaker 2>much bigger effort to just be present with each other,

0:51:41.848 --> 0:51:45.408
<v Speaker 2>communicate through anything we were thinking and feeling, and be

0:51:45.408 --> 0:51:47.488
<v Speaker 2>better to each other and better at each other's company.

0:51:48.688 --> 0:51:52.608
<v Speaker 2>So as the year progresses, he says to me, Japan's

0:51:52.648 --> 0:51:54.728
<v Speaker 2>not opening their borders yet. Why don't we use the

0:51:54.768 --> 0:51:56.648
<v Speaker 2>money you gave me for my thirtieth to book a

0:51:56.688 --> 0:52:00.248
<v Speaker 2>Europe trip. Let's basically relive our home honeymoon together. And

0:52:00.328 --> 0:52:02.368
<v Speaker 2>I had fallen in love with Europe on our honeymoon

0:52:02.848 --> 0:52:06.288
<v Speaker 2>and I was all too happy to say, absolutely, let's

0:52:06.288 --> 0:52:09.328
<v Speaker 2>do this. So we planned this Europe trip together from

0:52:09.328 --> 0:52:12.288
<v Speaker 2>months long trip. During the trip, we saw our favorite

0:52:12.328 --> 0:52:16.648
<v Speaker 2>band together. We got matching tatoos in Amsterdam, and everything

0:52:16.728 --> 0:52:21.968
<v Speaker 2>was perfect. We end up being intimate in every country

0:52:22.008 --> 0:52:24.687
<v Speaker 2>we visit it and every time we'd make little jokes

0:52:24.688 --> 0:52:27.008
<v Speaker 2>and say, oh, imagine if our baby's conceived here, and

0:52:27.048 --> 0:52:29.528
<v Speaker 2>we weren't being careful. We weren't not trying at this point,

0:52:30.008 --> 0:52:32.928
<v Speaker 2>so we were absolutely, you know, still talking about having children.

0:52:33.848 --> 0:52:36.888
<v Speaker 2>When we get back from Europe, we have a week

0:52:36.928 --> 0:52:39.368
<v Speaker 2>off together. We go to the movies twice, we go shopping,

0:52:39.688 --> 0:52:43.288
<v Speaker 2>we eat out, We're just having a great week and

0:52:43.968 --> 0:52:46.168
<v Speaker 2>we're back at work and I felt like everything was

0:52:46.208 --> 0:52:49.848
<v Speaker 2>distant all over again. I called Ben on my lunch

0:52:49.848 --> 0:52:52.568
<v Speaker 2>break and I say, what's going on. It's your Christmas

0:52:52.648 --> 0:52:56.328
<v Speaker 2>party tonight. I really feel like everything's distant. I just

0:52:56.368 --> 0:52:58.408
<v Speaker 2>want to talk before you go to the party, and

0:52:58.448 --> 0:53:00.087
<v Speaker 2>he says, I feel like I did at the start

0:53:00.128 --> 0:53:01.608
<v Speaker 2>of the year. I don't want to be married to

0:53:01.648 --> 0:53:06.527
<v Speaker 2>you anymore. I instantly start hysterically crying on the phone

0:53:06.608 --> 0:53:09.728
<v Speaker 2>and I say, well, this is just such a shock.

0:53:10.168 --> 0:53:12.408
<v Speaker 2>We got matching tattoos a week and a half ago.

0:53:13.048 --> 0:53:18.167
<v Speaker 2>I'm completely blindsided. I'm hysterically crying, and I just don't

0:53:18.168 --> 0:53:18.768
<v Speaker 2>know what to say.

0:53:19.048 --> 0:53:22.448
<v Speaker 1>Every day, the same patterns emerged. Kate never knew which

0:53:22.528 --> 0:53:25.248
<v Speaker 1>version of Ben she would get. The hardest part was

0:53:25.288 --> 0:53:27.808
<v Speaker 1>that she still loved him, and that love was what

0:53:27.928 --> 0:53:30.808
<v Speaker 1>kept her trying doing everything she could to make at

0:53:30.848 --> 0:53:33.848
<v Speaker 1>work until one day he did the unforgivable.

0:53:34.408 --> 0:53:36.488
<v Speaker 2>In March twenty twenty three, I was house sitting for

0:53:36.528 --> 0:53:39.128
<v Speaker 2>a friend and it was a great opportunity for me

0:53:39.248 --> 0:53:41.968
<v Speaker 2>to give him more space, and I noticed that he

0:53:42.088 --> 0:53:44.728
<v Speaker 2>wasn't feeding our cat, and that was it for me.

0:53:45.008 --> 0:53:46.728
<v Speaker 2>He was saying he was there and he was feeding

0:53:46.728 --> 0:53:49.087
<v Speaker 2>our cat. But I just knew in my gut that

0:53:49.128 --> 0:53:50.968
<v Speaker 2>he wasn't. So I was going back to our house

0:53:51.008 --> 0:53:52.687
<v Speaker 2>every day and checking to see if she'd been fed,

0:53:52.728 --> 0:53:55.448
<v Speaker 2>and she hadn't. And that happened a couple of times,

0:53:55.648 --> 0:53:57.648
<v Speaker 2>and that was when I knew, and I said, you

0:53:57.768 --> 0:53:59.728
<v Speaker 2>need to move out. Now. I put my foot down.

0:54:00.448 --> 0:54:01.848
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to go to Sydney and I'm going to

0:54:01.848 --> 0:54:04.888
<v Speaker 2>get as far away from you as possible on my

0:54:04.928 --> 0:54:07.128
<v Speaker 2>birthday weekend. You can move out in peace. I won't

0:54:07.128 --> 0:54:09.728
<v Speaker 2>be there to watch that happen. While I'm celebrating my bat

0:54:09.928 --> 0:54:13.087
<v Speaker 2>day that weekend I'm in Sydney. He is blowing up

0:54:13.128 --> 0:54:15.888
<v Speaker 2>my phone. He texts me happy birthday, he sends me

0:54:15.928 --> 0:54:20.168
<v Speaker 2>photos from the span of our relationship. He's complimenting me,

0:54:20.208 --> 0:54:23.288
<v Speaker 2>He's telling me he misses me. He's then saying fuck

0:54:23.328 --> 0:54:25.328
<v Speaker 2>all my friends. I don't care about them. I just

0:54:25.368 --> 0:54:28.168
<v Speaker 2>want you, and being really aggressive towards the people that

0:54:28.248 --> 0:54:31.288
<v Speaker 2>love and care about him. But I'm just taking this

0:54:31.328 --> 0:54:33.288
<v Speaker 2>as a win, and I'm saying, Okay, well you need

0:54:33.328 --> 0:54:36.288
<v Speaker 2>to prove it. Let's maybe go on a date or something.

0:54:36.368 --> 0:54:38.168
<v Speaker 2>Let's and I'm trying to talk to him and be,

0:54:38.888 --> 0:54:41.607
<v Speaker 2>you know, open to the fact that he wants He's

0:54:41.728 --> 0:54:45.888
<v Speaker 2>kind of changed his mind, and I thought, okay, him

0:54:45.888 --> 0:54:48.288
<v Speaker 2>moving out is a turning point, and he's realized this

0:54:48.328 --> 0:54:51.288
<v Speaker 2>is not sustainable and he wants back into this relationship.

0:54:51.648 --> 0:54:53.728
<v Speaker 2>So I'm giving him some grace, but I'm not giving

0:54:53.728 --> 0:54:57.087
<v Speaker 2>in fully. I've still got my guard up completely. And

0:54:57.168 --> 0:54:59.928
<v Speaker 2>he's texting me in the middle of the night saying

0:54:59.928 --> 0:55:03.448
<v Speaker 2>that he misses me. Two days after that, I'm at

0:55:03.448 --> 0:55:05.848
<v Speaker 2>work and my friend pulls me into a room and says, hey,

0:55:06.008 --> 0:55:08.448
<v Speaker 2>I've just received a message from my friend who's seen

0:55:08.528 --> 0:55:11.408
<v Speaker 2>Ben on a dating app. I look at the photos

0:55:11.448 --> 0:55:16.408
<v Speaker 2>and I'm completely just numb. It's him, and he's using

0:55:16.408 --> 0:55:21.008
<v Speaker 2>photos from our wedding. I'm instantly just shocked and disgusted,

0:55:21.448 --> 0:55:24.528
<v Speaker 2>and I knew we're done. We are done. That evening,

0:55:24.568 --> 0:55:26.527
<v Speaker 2>I call him and I say, hey, today, I was

0:55:26.568 --> 0:55:29.087
<v Speaker 2>shown photos of you on a dating app. He says, oh,

0:55:29.088 --> 0:55:31.768
<v Speaker 2>I made the profile two nights ago. So the first

0:55:31.888 --> 0:55:34.087
<v Speaker 2>night when he was begging for me back, his first

0:55:34.168 --> 0:55:37.167
<v Speaker 2>night moved out of the house. I say, well why,

0:55:37.328 --> 0:55:39.808
<v Speaker 2>and he says, I just needed the validation, And I said,

0:55:39.808 --> 0:55:41.768
<v Speaker 2>are you not getting that from me? That's what I'm

0:55:41.808 --> 0:55:44.448
<v Speaker 2>here for I'm your wife, and he screamed at me

0:55:44.488 --> 0:55:47.127
<v Speaker 2>and he said this is all your fault and turned

0:55:47.128 --> 0:55:48.968
<v Speaker 2>it on me, and I remember he hung up on me,

0:55:49.128 --> 0:55:50.527
<v Speaker 2>and he texted me and he said, just let me

0:55:50.568 --> 0:55:52.368
<v Speaker 2>enjoy a night with my friends, please. I wasn't even

0:55:52.368 --> 0:55:54.647
<v Speaker 2>going to message him. He then sends me a video

0:55:54.728 --> 0:55:57.208
<v Speaker 2>when I don't reply to that of him deleting Tinder,

0:55:57.488 --> 0:55:59.688
<v Speaker 2>and I reply and I say, well, the screenshot I

0:55:59.728 --> 0:56:06.607
<v Speaker 2>was shown was of Hinge. A few weeks pass I'm

0:56:06.648 --> 0:56:08.848
<v Speaker 2>at the lowest point I've ever been out in my life,

0:56:08.888 --> 0:56:13.728
<v Speaker 2>I think. And when my dad passed away, I ended

0:56:13.808 --> 0:56:16.248
<v Speaker 2>up in hospital one night. I just couldn't see a

0:56:16.248 --> 0:56:19.408
<v Speaker 2>way out, and I thought I was having a heart attack.

0:56:19.488 --> 0:56:21.128
<v Speaker 2>I think I was having a panic attack, and I

0:56:22.168 --> 0:56:24.087
<v Speaker 2>was like, I'm having a heart attack, just like my dad.

0:56:24.368 --> 0:56:26.527
<v Speaker 2>Like it's actually there's no way out of this for me,

0:56:26.608 --> 0:56:28.567
<v Speaker 2>Like I've lost the love of my life, he's moved out,

0:56:28.728 --> 0:56:31.087
<v Speaker 2>he's gone and begged for me back, and the same

0:56:31.168 --> 0:56:33.808
<v Speaker 2>night has made a dating profile like we're done, this

0:56:33.848 --> 0:56:37.128
<v Speaker 2>is done. And that was a real turning point for me.

0:56:37.568 --> 0:56:39.527
<v Speaker 2>I ended up booking in with the GP the next

0:56:39.568 --> 0:56:43.648
<v Speaker 2>day and going on antidepressants that day, and it was

0:56:43.728 --> 0:56:47.008
<v Speaker 2>so clear when I went on those antidepressants that what

0:56:47.208 --> 0:56:50.128
<v Speaker 2>I'd been going through up until that point in April

0:56:50.368 --> 0:56:52.888
<v Speaker 2>was not sustainable. I was coming home every day and

0:56:52.928 --> 0:56:55.688
<v Speaker 2>crying for five hours every night. Every day I'd go

0:56:55.688 --> 0:56:57.488
<v Speaker 2>to work and I'd be a shell of myself and

0:56:57.568 --> 0:57:00.328
<v Speaker 2>work would be my safe place, and it was just

0:57:00.928 --> 0:57:03.848
<v Speaker 2>it was the darkest point I can ever even remember

0:57:03.888 --> 0:57:06.328
<v Speaker 2>going through every in my life. When I went on

0:57:06.328 --> 0:57:10.008
<v Speaker 2>the antidepressants, I became really, really numb to everything was

0:57:10.048 --> 0:57:12.808
<v Speaker 2>happening and kind of reached a state of acceptance. I

0:57:12.848 --> 0:57:14.608
<v Speaker 2>was getting regular counseling and therapy.

0:57:14.648 --> 0:57:17.448
<v Speaker 1>At this point, all contact with Ben was limited to

0:57:17.488 --> 0:57:21.128
<v Speaker 1>financial and legal conversations as they navigated their split.

0:57:21.968 --> 0:57:24.888
<v Speaker 2>Until Ben tells me that Rex Orange County is coming

0:57:24.928 --> 0:57:27.648
<v Speaker 2>to Australia. I know he's really special to us. The

0:57:27.648 --> 0:57:30.608
<v Speaker 2>tickets are on sale, you might want to go. And

0:57:30.648 --> 0:57:33.288
<v Speaker 2>then he says, let's have a session with our counselor,

0:57:33.368 --> 0:57:35.808
<v Speaker 2>which I think is really odd and really strange. I

0:57:35.888 --> 0:57:38.528
<v Speaker 2>ended up contacting our counselor who says, let's book in

0:57:38.568 --> 0:57:41.408
<v Speaker 2>a session, but just with you. And when I speak

0:57:41.408 --> 0:57:43.528
<v Speaker 2>to the counselor, the counselor says, I won't see him anymore,

0:57:44.088 --> 0:57:48.088
<v Speaker 2>and essentially he says that Ben had tried to manipulate

0:57:48.448 --> 0:57:51.768
<v Speaker 2>him into springing a session on me to tell me

0:57:51.848 --> 0:57:54.568
<v Speaker 2>that he's got a new partner. I booked tickets to

0:57:54.608 --> 0:57:58.528
<v Speaker 2>this concept and was planning on going with a friend.

0:57:59.888 --> 0:58:03.368
<v Speaker 2>And then a couple weeks later, I reactivate Instagram and

0:58:04.008 --> 0:58:08.088
<v Speaker 2>I can see that he has someone's initials in his bio.

0:58:09.208 --> 0:58:13.968
<v Speaker 2>So I instantly had this feeling that it was another

0:58:14.328 --> 0:58:17.608
<v Speaker 2>person who had followed me, as she had instantly unfollowed

0:58:17.608 --> 0:58:20.208
<v Speaker 2>me when I reactivated my Instagram, I went on to

0:58:20.368 --> 0:58:23.928
<v Speaker 2>her Instagram account and she had his initials in her bio.

0:58:24.768 --> 0:58:27.848
<v Speaker 2>So they'd been dating for a few months at this point,

0:58:28.088 --> 0:58:30.888
<v Speaker 2>and they could have been overlap. Rex Orange County comes

0:58:30.928 --> 0:58:33.808
<v Speaker 2>along on in September twenty twenty three. I'm with my

0:58:33.888 --> 0:58:35.648
<v Speaker 2>friend and we're in the mosh pit and I turn

0:58:35.688 --> 0:58:37.888
<v Speaker 2>around and I see him and his new girlfriend walk in,

0:58:38.408 --> 0:58:40.408
<v Speaker 2>and I just couldn't help myself. I walked straight up

0:58:40.448 --> 0:58:42.288
<v Speaker 2>to them. I don't know what came over me. I'm

0:58:42.328 --> 0:58:46.008
<v Speaker 2>usually quite shy and non confrontational, and I said, Hi,

0:58:46.248 --> 0:58:50.128
<v Speaker 2>I'm Kate. Has Ben told you that Rex Orange County

0:58:50.168 --> 0:58:52.928
<v Speaker 2>sung our wedding song. She looks at me and shock

0:58:53.008 --> 0:58:56.808
<v Speaker 2>and he says she knows. And I said, you have

0:58:56.848 --> 0:58:59.568
<v Speaker 2>some nerve bringing her here. And he said we're leaving,

0:58:59.608 --> 0:59:02.568
<v Speaker 2>and I said, good go. He leaves. They walk up

0:59:02.568 --> 0:59:04.608
<v Speaker 2>the stairs and they I can see them at a

0:59:04.608 --> 0:59:06.608
<v Speaker 2>different entrance up here. My friend and I just stay

0:59:06.608 --> 0:59:08.808
<v Speaker 2>where we are in the mosh pit down the bottom,

0:59:09.168 --> 0:59:12.288
<v Speaker 2>and he starts gesturing at my friends and waving at her,

0:59:12.808 --> 0:59:17.048
<v Speaker 2>doing weird gestures, and it's so strange until the first

0:59:17.048 --> 0:59:19.328
<v Speaker 2>band comes on and the lights go out. I then

0:59:19.368 --> 0:59:22.248
<v Speaker 2>just try and forget about him. Our wedding song comes on.

0:59:22.368 --> 0:59:25.008
<v Speaker 2>I cried the whole time, but I just thought, I'm

0:59:25.008 --> 0:59:26.848
<v Speaker 2>not going to let him control where I go and

0:59:26.928 --> 0:59:30.288
<v Speaker 2>ruin these special things for me. He used to serenade

0:59:30.368 --> 0:59:32.808
<v Speaker 2>me all of Rex's songs, and so the fact that

0:59:32.848 --> 0:59:35.688
<v Speaker 2>he took her to Rex's concert just felt really sick.

0:59:36.408 --> 0:59:38.808
<v Speaker 2>We end up going through a binding financial agreement and

0:59:38.848 --> 0:59:41.328
<v Speaker 2>seeing each other to sign forms at the police station.

0:59:41.408 --> 0:59:45.488
<v Speaker 2>In November twenty twenty three, Ben comes to the appointment

0:59:45.528 --> 0:59:47.208
<v Speaker 2>at the police station to see the Justice of the

0:59:47.208 --> 0:59:50.368
<v Speaker 2>peace and during this time we're making small talk and

0:59:50.408 --> 0:59:53.688
<v Speaker 2>he admits and apologizes for taking his partner to the concert.

0:59:53.968 --> 0:59:57.208
<v Speaker 2>He admits it was disrespectful and takes full ownership. At

0:59:57.248 --> 0:59:59.168
<v Speaker 2>the end, he gives me a huge hug, and I

0:59:59.208 --> 1:00:01.848
<v Speaker 2>gave him some of the old cards and love letters

1:00:01.848 --> 1:00:03.768
<v Speaker 2>and things that we'd written each other or that I'd

1:00:03.808 --> 1:00:06.168
<v Speaker 2>specifically written to him, and he said, I have a

1:00:06.248 --> 1:00:09.208
<v Speaker 2>kate box at home. I'll never forget you. He gives

1:00:09.208 --> 1:00:10.808
<v Speaker 2>me a big hug, and I think, Okay, this is great.

1:00:10.808 --> 1:00:12.648
<v Speaker 2>We've ended on really good terms. I may never see

1:00:12.688 --> 1:00:13.088
<v Speaker 2>him again.

1:00:13.488 --> 1:00:17.088
<v Speaker 1>Around the time all this was going on, another X reappeared.

1:00:17.528 --> 1:00:21.488
<v Speaker 2>Remember Jake, I go on Instagram and see that amongst

1:00:21.568 --> 1:00:24.208
<v Speaker 2>some of my friendship group and wider circles, my ex

1:00:24.568 --> 1:00:29.568
<v Speaker 2>situationship is being called out online by multiple women for

1:00:29.728 --> 1:00:34.648
<v Speaker 2>instances of sexual assault and abuse. I instantly am distraught

1:00:34.848 --> 1:00:38.088
<v Speaker 2>and all my old trauma gets brought to the surface.

1:00:38.248 --> 1:00:42.368
<v Speaker 2>From twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, I knew that

1:00:42.448 --> 1:00:44.328
<v Speaker 2>this day was going to come. I knew that he

1:00:44.328 --> 1:00:48.368
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't get away with it. I knew, due to the

1:00:48.408 --> 1:00:50.888
<v Speaker 2>amount of women he was involved with and the nature

1:00:50.968 --> 1:00:54.608
<v Speaker 2>of his personality, that I wasn't the only one he

1:00:54.768 --> 1:00:58.368
<v Speaker 2>had impacted, and that one day things may come out

1:00:58.368 --> 1:01:03.888
<v Speaker 2>about him. Two of my exes exes started sharing the

1:01:03.928 --> 1:01:08.408
<v Speaker 2>stories of other women online and I got in touch

1:01:08.448 --> 1:01:11.328
<v Speaker 2>with them. Due to the three years on and off

1:01:11.328 --> 1:01:14.648
<v Speaker 2>that I'd spent with him, I instantly deactivated my Instagram

1:01:14.728 --> 1:01:17.728
<v Speaker 2>as I needed to protect my mental health, and a

1:01:17.848 --> 1:01:20.488
<v Speaker 2>day after the story started coming out, I was sent

1:01:20.648 --> 1:01:23.608
<v Speaker 2>an old video of Jake where he was threatening me,

1:01:24.448 --> 1:01:28.848
<v Speaker 2>saying unspeakable things that I didn't know existed. The video

1:01:28.888 --> 1:01:33.888
<v Speaker 2>had been filmed maybe eight years ago, and it sent

1:01:33.968 --> 1:01:37.568
<v Speaker 2>me into a depression like I'd never experienced before. I

1:01:37.648 --> 1:01:39.488
<v Speaker 2>was at work at the time, and I just remember

1:01:39.528 --> 1:01:42.648
<v Speaker 2>having the panic attack of all panic attacks. I was

1:01:42.728 --> 1:01:45.247
<v Speaker 2>on the ground. I couldn't breathe. I saw this video

1:01:45.248 --> 1:01:46.968
<v Speaker 2>and heard the things that he'd said about me, and

1:01:47.128 --> 1:01:49.408
<v Speaker 2>he'd said horrible things to my face, but these things

1:01:49.408 --> 1:01:55.888
<v Speaker 2>were unspeakable and just discussing vile, threatening things. A week passed,

1:01:56.008 --> 1:01:58.848
<v Speaker 2>and that happened to be during the same week that

1:01:58.968 --> 1:02:01.728
<v Speaker 2>my divorce was going through court, so I needed to

1:02:01.768 --> 1:02:04.008
<v Speaker 2>contact Ben to find out if the divorce was granted.

1:02:04.328 --> 1:02:05.968
<v Speaker 2>He'd been the one to file and pay for it.

1:02:06.008 --> 1:02:08.368
<v Speaker 2>I was clear on that with him, that I wasn't

1:02:08.368 --> 1:02:10.288
<v Speaker 2>going to do that when he was the one that

1:02:10.368 --> 1:02:14.528
<v Speaker 2>chose to leave me, and I email Ben to find

1:02:14.528 --> 1:02:16.688
<v Speaker 2>out if a divorce had been granted. He said yes.

1:02:17.448 --> 1:02:20.168
<v Speaker 2>A few days pass and the situation with my ex

1:02:20.208 --> 1:02:25.888
<v Speaker 2>situationship being called out online is escalating, and I'm feeling

1:02:26.008 --> 1:02:29.608
<v Speaker 2>like I need to share the video so others can

1:02:29.648 --> 1:02:33.368
<v Speaker 2>hear and see what Jake is like firsthand from his

1:02:33.368 --> 1:02:36.728
<v Speaker 2>own voice. I allow his ex to post the video

1:02:36.808 --> 1:02:40.568
<v Speaker 2>with my permission, even though I still don't have Instagram myself,

1:02:41.608 --> 1:02:43.488
<v Speaker 2>and I think that it will help. Even if just

1:02:43.528 --> 1:02:47.008
<v Speaker 2>one other woman sees this video and remembers his face

1:02:47.288 --> 1:02:49.128
<v Speaker 2>and doesn't want to go on a date with him,

1:02:49.448 --> 1:02:51.368
<v Speaker 2>I think that that would be worth it in the end,

1:02:51.888 --> 1:02:54.888
<v Speaker 2>So she posts a video. A week after the video

1:02:55.048 --> 1:02:57.608
<v Speaker 2>is posted, I receive a phone call from the police

1:02:57.608 --> 1:03:00.128
<v Speaker 2>to head down to the station as an IVO was

1:03:00.168 --> 1:03:04.688
<v Speaker 2>waiting for me. I'm beside myself. I'm so anxious, I'm shaking.

1:03:05.088 --> 1:03:06.688
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what to do. I was already in

1:03:06.728 --> 1:03:10.928
<v Speaker 2>a complete state of shock and had been reliving my

1:03:11.048 --> 1:03:14.928
<v Speaker 2>past with Jake that whole week, so I'm very on

1:03:15.048 --> 1:03:17.008
<v Speaker 2>edge when I head to the police station. When I

1:03:17.048 --> 1:03:20.328
<v Speaker 2>get to the police station, I'm handed the papers thinking

1:03:20.448 --> 1:03:25.648
<v Speaker 2>it's from Jake, and the papers were from Ben. The

1:03:25.688 --> 1:03:32.248
<v Speaker 2>IVO essentially is written incoherrently basically stating that I'm benz

1:03:32.288 --> 1:03:35.328
<v Speaker 2>Ex's wife, that I am going to be posting on

1:03:35.368 --> 1:03:38.168
<v Speaker 2>social media about him, that my friend has followed his

1:03:39.008 --> 1:03:42.208
<v Speaker 2>partner on Instagram. I have no idea who this is,

1:03:42.328 --> 1:03:45.608
<v Speaker 2>who's followed her. We have many mutuals, so I truly

1:03:45.648 --> 1:03:48.248
<v Speaker 2>couldn't tell you who could have followed her. That he'd

1:03:48.248 --> 1:03:52.488
<v Speaker 2>broken out in hives, that he couldn't function, that I

1:03:52.528 --> 1:03:55.128
<v Speaker 2>have absolutely no reason to post about him, That I

1:03:55.248 --> 1:03:57.968
<v Speaker 2>stalked him and his partner at the festival and followed

1:03:57.968 --> 1:04:01.808
<v Speaker 2>them for hundreds of meters, That I'd blocked the entrance

1:04:01.848 --> 1:04:04.488
<v Speaker 2>to the mosh pit when I saw them at the concert,

1:04:04.648 --> 1:04:07.247
<v Speaker 2>which again wasn't true. I'd never moved from the center

1:04:07.288 --> 1:04:10.248
<v Speaker 2>of the mosh pit and stopped them from walking back in.

1:04:10.368 --> 1:04:14.048
<v Speaker 2>There was everything in the IVO I could refute and

1:04:14.128 --> 1:04:18.688
<v Speaker 2>had witnesses for, and had evidence for. Essentially, I'm again

1:04:18.808 --> 1:04:21.448
<v Speaker 2>beside myself, completely in shock. I don't know how to

1:04:21.488 --> 1:04:23.608
<v Speaker 2>react to this, and I called my friend who's a

1:04:23.648 --> 1:04:28.328
<v Speaker 2>lawyer to get some help. My lawyer ended up sending

1:04:28.368 --> 1:04:32.288
<v Speaker 2>a letter asking for an undertaking or a withdrawal of

1:04:32.328 --> 1:04:35.408
<v Speaker 2>the IVO, as it was spurious and wasting resources, money

1:04:35.408 --> 1:04:39.528
<v Speaker 2>and time. The IVO was completely hearsay and it couldn't

1:04:39.528 --> 1:04:42.728
<v Speaker 2>be reasonably associated with me. We also really made it

1:04:42.728 --> 1:04:45.248
<v Speaker 2>clear that this is a system that's for vulnerable members

1:04:45.248 --> 1:04:47.168
<v Speaker 2>of the community, and this was a way that he

1:04:47.248 --> 1:04:47.928
<v Speaker 2>was controlling me.

1:04:48.328 --> 1:04:51.528
<v Speaker 1>Kate realized Ben's actions were driven by fear and a

1:04:51.608 --> 1:04:55.608
<v Speaker 1>design to control the narrative after that damaging video surface,

1:04:56.168 --> 1:04:59.048
<v Speaker 1>determined not to let him dictate the outcome. She fought

1:04:59.088 --> 1:05:03.408
<v Speaker 1>through months of legal negotiations before reluctantly accepting a one

1:05:03.488 --> 1:05:07.288
<v Speaker 1>year court undertaking to avoid being dragged through further turmoil.

1:05:07.768 --> 1:05:10.528
<v Speaker 2>While this was happening and he was sign up the undertaking,

1:05:10.928 --> 1:05:13.288
<v Speaker 2>I was taken into the support office at the court

1:05:13.688 --> 1:05:17.208
<v Speaker 2>and the support worker that normally supports the person who

1:05:17.288 --> 1:05:20.608
<v Speaker 2>lodges the undertaking came in and said, Hey, Kate, I've

1:05:20.648 --> 1:05:23.288
<v Speaker 2>just read your case. We have all been watching him

1:05:23.328 --> 1:05:25.848
<v Speaker 2>and his girlfriend all day. They're in the safe room

1:05:25.888 --> 1:05:28.208
<v Speaker 2>of the court right now. They have been giggling away

1:05:28.368 --> 1:05:31.288
<v Speaker 2>all day. She's like, I can see right through this instantly,

1:05:31.328 --> 1:05:33.328
<v Speaker 2>and the strong feminist in me wants you to fight

1:05:33.368 --> 1:05:36.768
<v Speaker 2>this undertaking and fight this IVO. And I just said,

1:05:37.088 --> 1:05:39.248
<v Speaker 2>I appreciate you so much. Thank you for saying that.

1:05:39.248 --> 1:05:40.808
<v Speaker 2>Thank you for believing me when you haven't even heard

1:05:40.848 --> 1:05:43.168
<v Speaker 2>it from my mouth. Thank you. I was crying. My

1:05:43.248 --> 1:05:45.248
<v Speaker 2>mum was next to me, and she was crying. And

1:05:45.288 --> 1:05:47.888
<v Speaker 2>they said, I had no idea he was even in

1:05:47.928 --> 1:05:49.448
<v Speaker 2>the court I thought he'd be zooming in for it.

1:05:49.488 --> 1:05:50.888
<v Speaker 2>I had no idea he was even in the same

1:05:50.928 --> 1:05:52.728
<v Speaker 2>building as me. And turns out he'd been sitting there

1:05:52.768 --> 1:05:55.208
<v Speaker 2>with his girlfriend laughing the whole morning and making a

1:05:55.208 --> 1:05:57.568
<v Speaker 2>mockery of the system. And she was like, we have

1:05:57.648 --> 1:05:59.888
<v Speaker 2>all been watching them and thinking, what are they even

1:05:59.928 --> 1:06:03.008
<v Speaker 2>doing back there? It is not okay. And so she

1:06:03.208 --> 1:06:05.128
<v Speaker 2>instantly said, I think you should fight this, and I

1:06:05.208 --> 1:06:07.448
<v Speaker 2>just said I can't. I have no fight left in me.

1:06:07.968 --> 1:06:10.368
<v Speaker 2>Let me sign this one year document and be out

1:06:10.368 --> 1:06:12.528
<v Speaker 2>of here. So when I went into the courtroom, I

1:06:12.568 --> 1:06:14.848
<v Speaker 2>was shaking head to toe. I could hear him and

1:06:14.888 --> 1:06:16.728
<v Speaker 2>his girlfriend on the other side of the barrier. They

1:06:16.728 --> 1:06:18.368
<v Speaker 2>were hid him from me, so I couldn't see them.

1:06:18.688 --> 1:06:21.408
<v Speaker 2>They talked the whole time as the judge was starting.

1:06:21.608 --> 1:06:25.008
<v Speaker 2>I guess the hearing, the judge basically said I'm not

1:06:25.048 --> 1:06:26.848
<v Speaker 2>to do the things on the undertaking. I can't go

1:06:26.888 --> 1:06:28.848
<v Speaker 2>within one hundred meters of his work. I think we

1:06:29.008 --> 1:06:31.648
<v Speaker 2>edited that to one hundred from two hundred because he

1:06:31.688 --> 1:06:36.808
<v Speaker 2>works three hundred meters from me, and essentially I'm not

1:06:36.848 --> 1:06:39.208
<v Speaker 2>allowed to contact him do all those things, which I

1:06:39.248 --> 1:06:43.448
<v Speaker 2>had no intention of doing anyway. It was honestly just

1:06:43.528 --> 1:06:46.688
<v Speaker 2>heartbreaking because I've never ever had a situation like that

1:06:46.728 --> 1:06:49.008
<v Speaker 2>where I've had to deal with the courts, deal with

1:06:49.048 --> 1:06:51.728
<v Speaker 2>police anything at all, and he was just using it

1:06:51.768 --> 1:06:54.128
<v Speaker 2>as a way to control me and control the narrative.

1:06:54.448 --> 1:06:56.568
<v Speaker 2>I leave the court with my mum and decide, Okay,

1:06:56.568 --> 1:06:57.928
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to move on with my life. I'm going

1:06:57.968 --> 1:06:59.448
<v Speaker 2>to take my long service leave and I'm going to

1:06:59.488 --> 1:07:01.328
<v Speaker 2>book the trip of a lifetime and I'll go to

1:07:01.368 --> 1:07:05.328
<v Speaker 2>Europe for nine weeks. It was truly the most life changing,

1:07:05.488 --> 1:07:10.168
<v Speaker 2>freeing experience, and everything about that trip was perfect. Visited

1:07:10.208 --> 1:07:12.488
<v Speaker 2>some of the places we went on our honeymoon, and

1:07:12.608 --> 1:07:15.008
<v Speaker 2>rewrote those memories. I reclaimed those memories. I went back

1:07:15.008 --> 1:07:16.928
<v Speaker 2>to the same tatoo artists in Amsterdam and got my

1:07:16.968 --> 1:07:20.168
<v Speaker 2>tatoo changed so it no longer matches his. I just

1:07:20.208 --> 1:07:22.848
<v Speaker 2>did things for me and for me alone, and it

1:07:22.968 --> 1:07:25.688
<v Speaker 2>was the best experience of my life. I was able

1:07:25.728 --> 1:07:27.368
<v Speaker 2>to be alone with my thoughts. I was able to

1:07:27.408 --> 1:07:29.208
<v Speaker 2>think through a lot of the trauma that I'd been

1:07:29.248 --> 1:07:31.328
<v Speaker 2>through with him. I was able to create so many

1:07:31.368 --> 1:07:33.968
<v Speaker 2>new memories. I was able to really reflect on some

1:07:34.008 --> 1:07:37.208
<v Speaker 2>of those red flags, and when I got back, I

1:07:37.328 --> 1:07:39.608
<v Speaker 2>was like a whole new person. I'd found my spark again,

1:07:39.688 --> 1:07:42.368
<v Speaker 2>my happiness again. I'd even been open to the idea

1:07:42.368 --> 1:07:44.208
<v Speaker 2>of dating again and met a couple of guys while

1:07:44.208 --> 1:07:47.168
<v Speaker 2>over there. While nothing romantic happened, it was just great

1:07:47.208 --> 1:07:49.568
<v Speaker 2>to put myself out there again. And everyone had said

1:07:49.568 --> 1:07:51.088
<v Speaker 2>to me in those last couple of years, I think

1:07:51.088 --> 1:07:52.848
<v Speaker 2>you should start dating. It'll help you get over him,

1:07:52.888 --> 1:07:54.168
<v Speaker 2>because I was just holding on to him and I

1:07:54.208 --> 1:07:56.928
<v Speaker 2>was always thinking about him and loving him. But I

1:07:57.008 --> 1:08:00.248
<v Speaker 2>really on that trip accepted I loved a version of

1:08:00.288 --> 1:08:03.208
<v Speaker 2>him that no longer existed, and I really needed to

1:08:03.208 --> 1:08:04.608
<v Speaker 2>come to terms with that, and I think I did

1:08:04.608 --> 1:08:06.568
<v Speaker 2>on that trip, and it was just this turning point

1:08:06.728 --> 1:08:09.728
<v Speaker 2>in my life. When I got back, not long enough,

1:08:09.928 --> 1:08:11.688
<v Speaker 2>I found out that he'd gotten engaged and had been

1:08:11.768 --> 1:08:13.928
<v Speaker 2>in Europe at the same time as me. Thank goodness,

1:08:13.968 --> 1:08:15.568
<v Speaker 2>I didn't know while I was there on my trip.

1:08:16.128 --> 1:08:18.367
<v Speaker 2>Recently I heard he said to my friend that he's

1:08:18.407 --> 1:08:20.848
<v Speaker 2>been doing so well since his big reset two years ago.

1:08:21.287 --> 1:08:23.807
<v Speaker 2>And it's true. He reset his life, he pressed reset.

1:08:23.968 --> 1:08:25.648
<v Speaker 2>He has only a couple of the same friends that

1:08:25.688 --> 1:08:27.768
<v Speaker 2>he did when him and I were together. I never

1:08:27.768 --> 1:08:29.728
<v Speaker 2>asked anyone to two sides. He did it for them.

1:08:29.808 --> 1:08:33.407
<v Speaker 2>He blocked everyone. Everyone is blocked. My best friend's dog

1:08:33.648 --> 1:08:37.728
<v Speaker 2>is blocked on Instagram. It is so crazy to think

1:08:37.808 --> 1:08:42.088
<v Speaker 2>that this person has taken such lengths to restart their

1:08:42.088 --> 1:08:45.128
<v Speaker 2>whole life. My whole family was devastated. My mom was devastated,

1:08:45.328 --> 1:08:48.728
<v Speaker 2>my sister, my niece, everyone was just completely heartbroken and

1:08:48.768 --> 1:08:51.327
<v Speaker 2>never got a chance to have a goodbye, never got closure.

1:08:51.408 --> 1:08:53.648
<v Speaker 2>It was just one day. He blocked everyone and never

1:08:53.688 --> 1:08:57.448
<v Speaker 2>spoke to anyone again. And so now I'm thirty and

1:08:57.528 --> 1:09:01.008
<v Speaker 2>I'm a divorce a and I'm really leaning into that stereotype.

1:09:01.048 --> 1:09:04.527
<v Speaker 2>It's very chic, I think. After Europe, I've just started

1:09:04.568 --> 1:09:07.848
<v Speaker 2>dating again, and I've actually had some of the funnest

1:09:07.928 --> 1:09:10.447
<v Speaker 2>dates of my life and have met some really great,

1:09:10.888 --> 1:09:13.928
<v Speaker 2>awesome people through the dating I thought going into it,

1:09:13.928 --> 1:09:15.287
<v Speaker 2>I was so anxious. It took me two and a

1:09:15.288 --> 1:09:17.608
<v Speaker 2>half years to be able to start dating again after him,

1:09:18.048 --> 1:09:20.648
<v Speaker 2>and he'd already gotten engaged in that time, and I

1:09:20.688 --> 1:09:22.848
<v Speaker 2>hadn't even kissed another man or held another man's hand,

1:09:23.448 --> 1:09:25.888
<v Speaker 2>and he'd already gotten engaged. And I just thought I

1:09:25.928 --> 1:09:29.367
<v Speaker 2>was the most boring, unlovable, unattractive person. And now I

1:09:29.448 --> 1:09:32.407
<v Speaker 2>just I feel like I've learned how to flirt. I'm

1:09:32.448 --> 1:09:35.968
<v Speaker 2>actually enjoying the dating experience. I feel like I've found

1:09:36.008 --> 1:09:39.048
<v Speaker 2>my confidence and sexuality again. All the men I've been

1:09:39.088 --> 1:09:41.247
<v Speaker 2>on dates with have told me you are so much fun, Kate,

1:09:41.288 --> 1:09:44.048
<v Speaker 2>you are so much fun organically, And it's actually been

1:09:44.247 --> 1:09:49.048
<v Speaker 2>so uplifting and so enlightening to hear that about myself

1:09:49.168 --> 1:09:51.287
<v Speaker 2>when he really made me feel like I was so

1:09:51.328 --> 1:09:54.048
<v Speaker 2>boring and so worthless. I don't know if I'll ever

1:09:54.088 --> 1:09:58.327
<v Speaker 2>trust anyone again. I definitely have trust issues, and I

1:09:58.328 --> 1:09:59.968
<v Speaker 2>think about how my dad will never get to walk

1:10:00.008 --> 1:10:03.008
<v Speaker 2>me down the aisle again. But I've learned so much

1:10:03.128 --> 1:10:06.808
<v Speaker 2>from the experience, and I'm just having so much fun

1:10:06.888 --> 1:10:10.728
<v Speaker 2>now restarting my own life with the same friends, the

1:10:10.768 --> 1:10:13.008
<v Speaker 2>same house, the same cat, and yeah, it's just been

1:10:13.128 --> 1:10:15.728
<v Speaker 2>such a joy finding myself again and finding my spark again.

1:10:15.928 --> 1:10:17.928
<v Speaker 2>I truly feel like I'm the happiest I've ever been

1:10:18.008 --> 1:10:20.648
<v Speaker 2>right now, and just I feel like I'm succeeding in

1:10:20.688 --> 1:10:23.968
<v Speaker 2>every aspect of my life except for romance. But that's okay.

1:10:24.008 --> 1:10:26.407
<v Speaker 2>It's just casual and no pressure up right now. I'm

1:10:26.408 --> 1:10:28.648
<v Speaker 2>just having so much fun. So I do think everything

1:10:28.688 --> 1:10:29.407
<v Speaker 2>happens for a reason.

1:10:46.688 --> 1:10:49.607
<v Speaker 1>Everyone has an ex is a Minti Media production, proudly

1:10:49.648 --> 1:10:52.088
<v Speaker 1>part of the Mum and mea network. This episode is

1:10:52.128 --> 1:10:55.327
<v Speaker 1>written and produced by Linda Scott. Interview conducted and the

1:10:55.368 --> 1:10:58.247
<v Speaker 1>episode narrated by me Georgia Love. If you have a

1:10:58.288 --> 1:11:01.528
<v Speaker 1>story you'd like to share, email podcast at momamea dot

1:11:01.568 --> 1:11:04.247
<v Speaker 1>com dot au. You can support us by following the

1:11:04.288 --> 1:11:06.768
<v Speaker 1>show and your favorite podcast up and leaving a five

1:11:06.808 --> 1:11:11.128
<v Speaker 1>star review. We'll see you for the next episode.

1:11:11.608 --> 1:11:11.888
<v Speaker 2>Thinks