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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mother Me podcast, Muma Me your

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Speaker 1: acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters. This

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Speaker 1: podcast is recorded on Patterns are what keepers grounded, the

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Speaker 1: familiar rhythms that shape our routines and relationships. When they're good,

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Speaker 1: they bring comfort, joy in a sense of home, and honestly,

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Speaker 1: you just can't get enough of them.

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Speaker 2: We were going on dates and eating out every couple

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Speaker 2: of nights. We were hanging out with all of my friends.

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Speaker 2: He was continuously buying me flowers, sending me flowers to

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Speaker 2: my work. He would take me to gigs and to

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Speaker 2: the movies, and we were absolutely just obsessed with each other.

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Speaker 1: But the thing about patterns is not all of them

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Speaker 1: are good. Some sneak up on you, starting small, barely

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Speaker 1: noticeable at first, Then before you realize it, they've taken hold,

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Speaker 1: and suddenly your whole life can feel like it's been

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Speaker 1: turned upside down.

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Speaker 2: I remember the moment he got home. We were fighting.

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Speaker 2: He was instantly getting aggressive. He'd moved all his belongings

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Speaker 2: out of our bedroom into the room downstairs, the spare room,

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Speaker 2: and it was like there were two separate people living

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Speaker 2: in the house.

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Speaker 1: When I got home, I'm Georgia Love and this is

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Speaker 1: everyone has an ex Come with me as we dive

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Speaker 1: into a collection of unconventional stories about relationships past through

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Speaker 1: the eyes and the hearts of the very people who

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Speaker 1: lived them. Meet Kate, self proclaimed perpetually single and perfectly

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Speaker 1: fine with it at the ohso wise age of twenty two,

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Speaker 1: she wasn't exactly out there searching for the one. But

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Speaker 1: dear listener, we both know what happens next. A casual

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Speaker 1: scroll one night, and boom, a guy slides into a DMS.

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Speaker 2: His name was Ben. I was very happy on my own,

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Speaker 2: very happy at living with my cat. I was definitely

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Speaker 2: in my just single girl era and really comfortable and independent.

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Speaker 2: I had a really great, stable job and really really

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Speaker 2: supportive large friendship circles. So for me, I was always

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Speaker 2: the one that would be the person that's third wheeling

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Speaker 2: or fifth Wheeling or organizing the Taco Tuesdays, and wasn't

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Speaker 2: really searching for a relationship at that point in my life.

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Speaker 2: I think I'd been on dating apps a couple of

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Speaker 2: times and not really had much success. I don't think

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Speaker 2: I'd ever even been on a real first date at

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Speaker 2: that point. So when Ben slid into my DMS. I

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Speaker 2: was really nicely surprised. I didn't know who he was.

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Speaker 2: I actually thought he could be a catfish because he

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Speaker 2: didn't have his first name in his profile at all.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't in his bio, it wasn't in his username.

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Speaker 2: I just had a couple of mutual followers with him.

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Speaker 2: He actually DM me asking who my secret Sanna was

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Speaker 2: and how many I had. I think I'd posted that

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Speaker 2: it was Christmas time at work and I was doing

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Speaker 2: Secret Sander with my team, and he replied to my story,

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Speaker 2: I believe. And I remember just striking up the conversation

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Speaker 2: with him, asking my friend, Hey, who is this guy?

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Speaker 2: Is he a catfish? Is he even real? And she said, oh,

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Speaker 2: I know him from work. He's cute, he's very nice.

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Speaker 2: You should speak to him. And I remember, as that

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Speaker 2: day progressed, we had some banter. He was at his

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Speaker 2: work Christmas party that evening and he asked me what

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Speaker 2: I was doing. I said, I'm watching Gilmore Girls, and

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Speaker 2: I remember he made a joke about loving Lorelei or

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Speaker 2: something like that, and then he said he wanted to

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Speaker 2: come and watch Gilmore Girls with me, and me being

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Speaker 2: in my single era, I thought, you know what, my

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Speaker 2: friend has cleared the fact that he's real. I'll just

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Speaker 2: let him come over. He did come over, and he

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Speaker 2: had had a little bit to drink, but not too much,

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Speaker 2: and I remember we just sat on my couch and

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Speaker 2: talked for hours. One thing led to another, and I

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Speaker 2: remember he stayed over the next morning. He was really

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Speaker 2: really sweet. We were intimate again, and he was very complimentary.

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Speaker 2: He made me breakfast in my own kitchen, and he

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Speaker 2: realized that I was vegetarian and he was vegan, and

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Speaker 2: we were really excited about that, as not many people

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Speaker 2: we knew were at the time, and it all just

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Speaker 2: kind of started from there. He messaged me, I think

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Speaker 2: maybe an hour or two after he left my house

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Speaker 2: to go. He had a second job on the weekends

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Speaker 2: in retail, and he messaged me an hour or two

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Speaker 2: after he left, saying how adorable he thought I was,

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Speaker 2: and how I had a cute cat, and he wanted

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Speaker 2: to see me again. Anyway. I was buzzing. I had

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Speaker 2: a little crush immediately. He was really tall and tattooed,

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Speaker 2: very fit as well, and so funny. I could just

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Speaker 2: tell the moment I met him that he was really charismatic,

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Speaker 2: really funny, and really easy to talk to, so I

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Speaker 2: instantly also wanted to see him again. I remember I

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Speaker 2: went to lunch with my friends that day and I

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Speaker 2: was telling them all about him, and they said, this

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Speaker 2: is so cute. We've never seen me like this about

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Speaker 2: a man. So I was very, very excited when that

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Speaker 2: night I was going out clubbing and he said, I'll

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Speaker 2: come meet up with you, and the rest is kind

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Speaker 2: of history. We were inseparable from there. He came home

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Speaker 2: with me again that night. I remember he was buying

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Speaker 2: my friend's drinks and then McDonald's on the way home.

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Speaker 2: The next day, he stayed over. I think we spent

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Speaker 2: the day together and then we just could not stop talking.

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Speaker 2: It all happened really, really quickly. He was twenty five

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Speaker 2: at the time when I met him, about to turn

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Speaker 2: twenty six in a few weeks, and I think he

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Speaker 2: basically stayed over at my house every day, and he

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Speaker 2: took me on my first proper date. We went and

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Speaker 2: had vegan food, he bought us margaritas, and we were

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Speaker 2: playing Truth or Dare, and one thing led to another

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Speaker 2: and he asked me to be his girlfriend, and I

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Speaker 2: said yes. I was so excited, and things had moved

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Speaker 2: really quickly. I think it had been four weeks at

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Speaker 2: that point, and he said to me, I think I

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Speaker 2: love you, and I remember just sitting there and being

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Speaker 2: in complete shock that it was happening so quickly, and

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Speaker 2: I said to him, I can't say it back yet.

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Speaker 2: This is a really big deal for me. I've never

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Speaker 2: said I love you.

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Speaker 1: At this point, these stirred up memories of a ghost

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Speaker 1: of a situation ship past. His name was Jake.

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Speaker 2: My previous dating experience had been limited to a bit

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Speaker 2: of a situation ship that was on and off from

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Speaker 2: when I was seventeen for three years. And with that situationship,

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Speaker 2: we would go from friends to friends with benefits to

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Speaker 2: him blocking me and being quite abusive. So I'd never

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Speaker 2: actually said I love you to any man before, and

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Speaker 2: he had left me with a fair bit of PTSD

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Speaker 2: and trauma off the back of that three year period

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Speaker 2: where it was so up and down and so heightened.

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Speaker 2: I mean I was, yeah, seventeen, he was eighteen, and

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Speaker 2: it was so messy and so dramatic, and I remember

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Speaker 2: it was just the darkest period of my life on

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Speaker 2: and off at a really really young age. I learnt

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Speaker 2: how cruel men could be, and he had left me

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Speaker 2: feeling really untrusting towards men. And even though I wasn't

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Speaker 2: in an official relationship with my ex situationship, he had

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Speaker 2: really left this kind of mark on me where I

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Speaker 2: just didn't feel lovable. I felt really confident in myself

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Speaker 2: as a person and as a friend, but romantically I

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Speaker 2: didn't feel worthy of love. And so when I met

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Speaker 2: Ben and he was everything that my ex situationship wasn't,

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Speaker 2: that was a real turning point for me and the

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Speaker 2: way I approached love, I guess and romance. Our relationship

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Speaker 2: was very physical from the start, and we were definitely

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Speaker 2: really compatible in the bedroom. I remember teaching him some

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Speaker 2: new things, and he was a little bit shy. I

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Speaker 2: think because he'd been in relationship since he was in

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Speaker 2: high school. He hadn't really found his feet in that area,

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Speaker 2: so I guess it was really nice to teach him things.

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Speaker 2: He would absolutely spoil me as well from the moment

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Speaker 2: we started kind of seeing each other, and in those

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Speaker 2: early days, he would bring me flowers all the time,

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Speaker 2: little sweet treats. He would show up after work at

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Speaker 2: my work with, yeah, a bouquet of flowers or a

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Speaker 2: little gift that he'd thought of me, and would be

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Speaker 2: there whenever I finished work. He was just always there,

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Speaker 2: ready to hang out. So yeah, pretty much inseparable from

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Speaker 2: day one. I think he was just so charismatic. He

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Speaker 2: knew how to just lie up a room. He made

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Speaker 2: everyone feel so welcome. He was so inclusive, so funny.

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Speaker 2: You could just tell when he was thinking of jokes

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Speaker 2: as well, and then he'd pull them off really well.

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Speaker 2: The whole room would be in fits of laughter. We

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Speaker 2: integrated really quickly, as in he would absolutely come along

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Speaker 2: to all my friendship events. I met his friends as well. However,

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Speaker 2: he had a much much smaller friendship group. He was

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Speaker 2: a strange from his family and his mother had passed away.

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Speaker 2: He had two younger brothers and a couple of older

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Speaker 2: siblings as well on both his mum and his dad's

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Speaker 2: side that he was completely estranged from, and he didn't

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Speaker 2: have a large friendship circle. So he really integrated quickly

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Speaker 2: into mine, and everyone made him feel really welcome, and

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Speaker 2: I think he fit in really well. We all had

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Speaker 2: very similar interests when it came to know movies, music.

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Speaker 2: We were very much into the kind of alternative music scene,

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Speaker 2: and it was really easy for us all to get along.

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Speaker 2: I think I felt this intense need to make him

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Speaker 2: feel included and part of my family, whether it be

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Speaker 2: my friendship family or my family family. I feel like

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Speaker 2: he was a very strong, strong person. He was so

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Speaker 2: intelligent and in tune with his emotions when we spoke,

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Speaker 2: and he had actually also told me that he'd lost

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Speaker 2: eighty kilograms and used to weigh one hundred and sixty

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Speaker 2: and was around eighty when we met, and I thought,

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Speaker 2: this person is so strong mentally. That is such a

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Speaker 2: sign of someone who is really really strong in terms

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Speaker 2: of their character, their perseverance, and their ability to see

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Speaker 2: an obsticle and overcome it. And he did that for

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Speaker 2: himself and was motivated himself to do that. He was

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Speaker 2: quite self conscious of that, and I was always just

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Speaker 2: in awe of that, and I thought that that was

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Speaker 2: one of the best things about him, was knowing that

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Speaker 2: fact as well. So he definitely was just someone I

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Speaker 2: wanted to embrace and bring into my circle really quickly.

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Speaker 2: So she did things progressed really quickly. I think said

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Speaker 2: I love you when he asked me to be his girlfriend,

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Speaker 2: and I definitely felt a lot of pressure from him

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Speaker 2: to say it back, but held off for I think

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Speaker 2: it was only a week or two, but it felt

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Speaker 2: like a really long time. And I was really clear

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Speaker 2: with him that it was a really big deal for me,

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Speaker 2: as I'd never said I love you to anyone else before.

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Speaker 2: When I said it, it was his birthday and I

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Speaker 2: wrote it in a card, and I remember he was

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Speaker 2: just so shocked and surprised, and we instantly just embraced

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Speaker 2: and it was very cute, see, and I was just

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Speaker 2: so in love with him so quickly. I felt so

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Speaker 2: so hard, and I never had before, so it was

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Speaker 2: all very very new to me. And that first couple

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Speaker 2: of months we were thrown into living together quite quickly,

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Speaker 2: as his lease at his rental had come up and

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Speaker 2: he didn't want to sign on for a year when

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Speaker 2: he'd just kind of gotten into a really serious relationship.

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Speaker 2: So I said, well, I mean, I have a one

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Speaker 2: bedroom apartment, but we can make it work. Move in here.

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Speaker 2: There's no point in you signing a whole year long

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Speaker 2: lease at your current place. Let's make it work together.

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Speaker 2: And so he basically never left. Essentially, it was a

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Speaker 2: one night stand turn relationship very very very quickly.

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Speaker 1: Despite only being together a couple of months, Cad and

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Speaker 1: Ben were totally and blissfully in love, but even in

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Speaker 1: their perfect little world, there were hints that things were

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Speaker 1: moving a little too fast.

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Speaker 2: We went through the usual kind of initial relationship hiccups

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Speaker 2: of he was quite jealous of some of my male friends,

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Speaker 2: especially ones I had passed intimate experiences with, and although

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Speaker 2: there was nothing there, he felt quite strongly about my

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Speaker 2: friendships with them, and I really started to distance myself

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Speaker 2: and isolate myself quite quickly from them. And he was

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Speaker 2: quite attached and he would constantly text me, and if

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Speaker 2: I didn't reply for a couple of hours because I

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Speaker 2: was at work, he'd you know, double text, and I

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Speaker 2: thought that was completely normal, and that really felt like

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Speaker 2: he was just making a big effort and just wanted

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Speaker 2: to spend time with me and hear from me, and

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Speaker 2: absolutely was just as obsessed with me as I was

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Speaker 2: with him. I think I had just had that security

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Speaker 2: even though I'd never been in a relationship. I just

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Speaker 2: didn't feel that need to text twenty four to seven,

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Speaker 2: And so that was something that I noticed quite early on.

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Speaker 2: About a month after I told Ben that I loved him,

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Speaker 2: he went out for drinks with some friends. He didn't

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Speaker 2: come home that night, which wasn't abnormal as we had

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Speaker 2: just started dating, and he told me he was staying

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Speaker 2: over at his friend's house. I remember the next day

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Speaker 2: at work it was Valentine's Day and he came and

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Speaker 2: visited me before work while I was getting coffee and

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Speaker 2: brought me a bunch of flowers, which was really sweet.

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Speaker 2: But then another bouquet of flowers showed up at my

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Speaker 2: workplace that day that had been pre ordered for Valentine's Day.

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Speaker 2: So I didn't think too much into that until about

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Speaker 2: a week later and I get a message from my

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Speaker 2: friend who said, hey, I didn't know Ben and this

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Speaker 2: coworker of my friend was such good friends. It was

250
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Speaker 2: basically like a hate girly text, but from my friend

251
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Speaker 2: who worked with this girl at the time, and he

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Speaker 2: didn't outright say it, but I knew something had happened.

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Speaker 2: So I questioned my friend and he has actually said

254
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Speaker 2: she was bragging about sleeping with him the week before.

255
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Speaker 2: I had a feeling in my gut. I knew something

256
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Speaker 2: definitely had happened because I thought back and I thought

257
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Speaker 2: it was strange that he didn't message me and come

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Speaker 2: home that night, and I think my gut just knew, yeah,

259
00:13:30,848 --> 00:13:34,288
Speaker 2: he had done something and had a secret. I felt

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Speaker 2: really really confused, but I wasn't going to jump to

261
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Speaker 2: conclusions and just believe this other person. I was going

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Speaker 2: to give Ben the chance to explain. I confronted Ben

263
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Speaker 2: about it, and he instantly got defensive and went outside

264
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Speaker 2: to make a phone call. And I remember just sitting

265
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Speaker 2: there on the phone to my best friend, saying, Hey,

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Speaker 2: this has happened. He's gone outside to make a phone call.

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Speaker 2: He's denying that it even happened, and I was in

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Speaker 2: complete shock and a complete state of confusion. At this point,

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Speaker 2: I just knew that he was lying about it, and

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00:14:09,848 --> 00:14:14,448
Speaker 2: I messaged the other girl. She backflipped a couple of

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Speaker 2: times in that conversation and essentially ended up denying that

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00:14:17,928 --> 00:14:23,568
Speaker 2: it happened. And then Ben admitted to it all. He

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00:14:23,608 --> 00:14:26,488
Speaker 2: said that they got very drunk and that it was

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Speaker 2: just an accident. There was no real excuse for it.

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Speaker 2: He was crying, he was really upset. I remember I

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00:14:33,968 --> 00:14:35,688
Speaker 2: was in a bit of shock, so I was just

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Speaker 2: sitting on the couch, just still and frozen, not able

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Speaker 2: to cry, not able to get upset. And I told

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Speaker 2: him we needed space so I could think about it.

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Speaker 2: I took the next day off work, and I know

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Speaker 2: that Ben went and stayed with his friend and spoke

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Speaker 2: to his friend. And when Ben came back, he was

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Speaker 2: so full of remorse and he was saying, he just

284
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Speaker 2: doesn't know why it happened. He loves me, he sees

285
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Speaker 2: a future with me. He absolutely wanted to make it

286
00:15:00,888 --> 00:15:04,008
Speaker 2: work with me if I could forgive him. I remember

287
00:15:04,048 --> 00:15:06,768
Speaker 2: I asked him did he use protection? He said no,

288
00:15:07,168 --> 00:15:09,528
Speaker 2: and so I instantly made us go to the doctor

289
00:15:09,808 --> 00:15:13,848
Speaker 2: and get a test together. And I remember just being

290
00:15:13,888 --> 00:15:16,688
Speaker 2: in the uber on the way to the GP and thinking,

291
00:15:16,968 --> 00:15:19,048
Speaker 2: I can't believe this has happened. I can't believe this happened.

292
00:15:19,208 --> 00:15:22,088
Speaker 2: This is only a month in to my first proper relationship.

293
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Speaker 2: I love this man, and he's cheated on me already.

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Speaker 2: When we got home, we had a big discussion about it,

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Speaker 2: and I said, if I choose to give you another chance,

296
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Speaker 2: and I choose to forgive you, I'm going to do

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00:15:33,768 --> 00:15:36,328
Speaker 2: that with a promise that I won't resent you. I've

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Speaker 2: seen how that ruins other relationships, even years down the track,

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Speaker 2: where the partner will then be so full of resentment.

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Speaker 2: If I'm going to forgive you, I'm going to let

301
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Speaker 2: go and I will give you another chance wholeheartedly. But

302
00:15:47,208 --> 00:15:49,688
Speaker 2: you need to promise to never do this again. And

303
00:15:49,768 --> 00:15:52,128
Speaker 2: he said, yep, I promise I won't do this again.

304
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Speaker 2: After that, I chose to, yeah, forgive and forget and

305
00:15:57,088 --> 00:16:01,888
Speaker 2: move forward with absolute grace and love for him. We

306
00:16:01,968 --> 00:16:05,488
Speaker 2: just continued on as if it had never happened, and

307
00:16:05,528 --> 00:16:07,608
Speaker 2: it was just a tiny little blip. Very very early on,

308
00:16:08,688 --> 00:16:11,888
Speaker 2: we were still separable. We were going on dates and

309
00:16:11,968 --> 00:16:14,408
Speaker 2: eating out every couple of nights. We were hanging out

310
00:16:14,448 --> 00:16:17,248
Speaker 2: with all of my friends. He was continuously buying me flowers,

311
00:16:17,288 --> 00:16:20,048
Speaker 2: sending me flowers to my work. He would take me

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00:16:20,608 --> 00:16:25,568
Speaker 2: to gigs and to the movies, and we were absolutely

313
00:16:25,768 --> 00:16:26,928
Speaker 2: just obsessed with each other.

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Speaker 1: Every couple hits a few bumps along the way, and

315
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Speaker 1: as far as Kay was concerned, that was all behind them.

316
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Speaker 1: In her mind, that bleep will only make them stronger,

317
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Speaker 1: and as it turns out, she was right.

318
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Speaker 2: We were going to a engagement party on a Saturday

319
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Speaker 2: evening and we were shopping for an outfit for him

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Speaker 2: to wear during the day, and while we were walking

321
00:16:50,088 --> 00:16:53,008
Speaker 2: through them all, we saw a doory store how to sale,

322
00:16:53,448 --> 00:16:55,608
Speaker 2: and at that point we had been making so many

323
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Speaker 2: jokes about having kids, and I was saying to him,

324
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Speaker 2: I'm really traditional. I don't want to have kids until

325
00:17:01,488 --> 00:17:03,488
Speaker 2: I'm married, and we were joking that we were going

326
00:17:03,528 --> 00:17:04,808
Speaker 2: to get married. He was telling me I was his

327
00:17:04,888 --> 00:17:06,568
Speaker 2: dream girl, I was the love of his life. He

328
00:17:06,648 --> 00:17:09,328
Speaker 2: was going to make me his wife. And so when

329
00:17:09,368 --> 00:17:12,407
Speaker 2: we saw this jewelry store sale, we walked in and

330
00:17:12,447 --> 00:17:14,608
Speaker 2: he said, let's just for fun, have you try some on?

331
00:17:15,408 --> 00:17:18,448
Speaker 2: And I tried some on. I tried on my dream ring,

332
00:17:18,528 --> 00:17:21,608
Speaker 2: which was a kind of square cut silver diamond ring.

333
00:17:22,448 --> 00:17:25,167
Speaker 2: It didn't look good on my finger at all. And

334
00:17:25,208 --> 00:17:28,288
Speaker 2: then there was one that was this beautiful round diamond

335
00:17:29,248 --> 00:17:31,888
Speaker 2: and we put it on my finger and it looked

336
00:17:31,928 --> 00:17:35,608
Speaker 2: completely different and it just fit. And I remember being

337
00:17:35,928 --> 00:17:38,407
Speaker 2: so shocked that this ring that I had liked. I'd

338
00:17:38,408 --> 00:17:40,328
Speaker 2: never really thought about rings before, but this ring that

339
00:17:40,368 --> 00:17:43,328
Speaker 2: I had liked on other people, the style just looked

340
00:17:43,328 --> 00:17:45,048
Speaker 2: horrible on my finger. But then when we put this

341
00:17:45,088 --> 00:17:47,968
Speaker 2: one on, it was the one. He instantly walked outside

342
00:17:48,008 --> 00:17:49,928
Speaker 2: and I could see him. He just left me there,

343
00:17:49,968 --> 00:17:51,848
Speaker 2: and I could see him pacing back and forth on

344
00:17:51,888 --> 00:17:53,808
Speaker 2: the phone, and I had no idea who he was

345
00:17:53,848 --> 00:17:56,728
Speaker 2: talking to. When he came back into the jewelry store,

346
00:17:56,808 --> 00:17:59,448
Speaker 2: he looked at me and the salesman and he said,

347
00:17:59,608 --> 00:18:02,648
Speaker 2: that was your mum. She gave us her blessing, and

348
00:18:02,768 --> 00:18:04,967
Speaker 2: he knew that he didn't need my dad's approval. My

349
00:18:05,048 --> 00:18:07,167
Speaker 2: dad was very chill and would just be completely happy

350
00:18:07,208 --> 00:18:09,528
Speaker 2: for me. It was my mom's approval who he needed.

351
00:18:09,928 --> 00:18:12,288
Speaker 2: So he'd called my mum and asked if it was

352
00:18:12,328 --> 00:18:15,448
Speaker 2: okay to ask me to marry him. She had said

353
00:18:15,488 --> 00:18:17,848
Speaker 2: it's Kate's choice, but I approved. They'd only met once

354
00:18:17,888 --> 00:18:20,848
Speaker 2: at this point, and he'd come into state with me

355
00:18:21,368 --> 00:18:24,568
Speaker 2: to meet my family a few weeks earlier, so they

356
00:18:24,648 --> 00:18:28,608
Speaker 2: had loved him and completely just fallen head over heels

357
00:18:28,608 --> 00:18:30,768
Speaker 2: with him the way I had. He made a huge

358
00:18:30,768 --> 00:18:34,008
Speaker 2: effort with my family when we were there interstate together.

359
00:18:34,488 --> 00:18:36,728
Speaker 2: He got along with my sister in a way that

360
00:18:36,768 --> 00:18:38,728
Speaker 2: I didn't even get along with her. He got along

361
00:18:38,768 --> 00:18:43,288
Speaker 2: with my cousins, my nieces, my whole family just absolutely

362
00:18:43,448 --> 00:18:48,048
Speaker 2: fell in love with him. So once we bought the ring,

363
00:18:48,248 --> 00:18:51,848
Speaker 2: we were giddy, and we got the tram home and

364
00:18:52,088 --> 00:18:54,848
Speaker 2: he was saying I'm going to surprise you and propose

365
00:18:54,848 --> 00:18:58,928
Speaker 2: when you least expect it. And I was absolutely completely

366
00:18:59,008 --> 00:19:01,368
Speaker 2: okay with that, but just knowing that the ring was there,

367
00:19:01,768 --> 00:19:03,768
Speaker 2: I can't even describe the feeling. I was so in love.

368
00:19:03,768 --> 00:19:05,848
Speaker 2: I just wanted it to happen then and there. And

369
00:19:05,888 --> 00:19:09,008
Speaker 2: then we were walking down my street, right outside our apartment,

370
00:19:09,408 --> 00:19:12,248
Speaker 2: and he just couldn't take it anymore and got down

371
00:19:12,288 --> 00:19:15,488
Speaker 2: on one knee. I don't even remember what he said.

372
00:19:15,888 --> 00:19:19,728
Speaker 2: I was in activewear and looked shocking. And a lady

373
00:19:19,768 --> 00:19:21,928
Speaker 2: was turning the corner as he got down on one knee,

374
00:19:22,008 --> 00:19:23,928
Speaker 2: and she said, oh my God, give me your phone

375
00:19:23,928 --> 00:19:25,808
Speaker 2: and took my phone and took a photo of it

376
00:19:25,928 --> 00:19:31,008
Speaker 2: for us. I was crying. I was beside myself with joy,

377
00:19:31,688 --> 00:19:34,208
Speaker 2: and I of course said yes instantly, and we went

378
00:19:34,288 --> 00:19:38,167
Speaker 2: upstairs and we called my dad and told my dad.

379
00:19:38,328 --> 00:19:41,808
Speaker 2: I think my mom drove over with the phone to

380
00:19:41,928 --> 00:19:44,048
Speaker 2: my dad. She was somewhere else at that point. I

381
00:19:44,048 --> 00:19:45,648
Speaker 2: think she was at a friend's house. Well, my dad

382
00:19:45,728 --> 00:19:47,167
Speaker 2: was at home, and my dad drove over to my

383
00:19:47,248 --> 00:19:50,128
Speaker 2: mom at a friend's house, and we told them together

384
00:19:50,168 --> 00:19:52,648
Speaker 2: on the phone, and then we called my grandma and

385
00:19:52,688 --> 00:19:55,568
Speaker 2: we did the rounds, and then we had to go

386
00:19:55,688 --> 00:19:58,608
Speaker 2: to this engagement party where we obviously didn't say anything,

387
00:19:59,168 --> 00:20:02,248
Speaker 2: didn't tell anyone, and let my friend have her moment.

388
00:20:02,568 --> 00:20:04,447
Speaker 2: But the whole time we were just giddy because we

389
00:20:04,488 --> 00:20:08,168
Speaker 2: had this secret. We posted about it on Facebook afterwards,

390
00:20:08,568 --> 00:20:11,568
Speaker 2: and I remember my phone was just blowing up and

391
00:20:11,648 --> 00:20:14,568
Speaker 2: everyone was saying, I'm so excited you but I'm so surprised,

392
00:20:14,928 --> 00:20:16,407
Speaker 2: and I would just say, when you know, you know,

393
00:20:16,848 --> 00:20:19,808
Speaker 2: and I know he's my person, he's the one, He's

394
00:20:19,848 --> 00:20:23,168
Speaker 2: the love of my life. It was a really exciting

395
00:20:23,208 --> 00:20:25,368
Speaker 2: time anyway, just being in that engagement bubble. There was

396
00:20:25,408 --> 00:20:29,008
Speaker 2: no rush to get married, but there was a need

397
00:20:29,048 --> 00:20:32,128
Speaker 2: for us to look at our finances and really get

398
00:20:32,128 --> 00:20:35,488
Speaker 2: real about saving so we could be ready for a wedding.

399
00:20:37,208 --> 00:20:40,648
Speaker 1: Just five months after that first fateful dm, Kate had

400
00:20:40,688 --> 00:20:43,927
Speaker 1: a ring on her finger and a future unfolding before her.

401
00:20:44,448 --> 00:20:47,648
Speaker 1: And around that time another big decision presented itself.

402
00:20:47,968 --> 00:20:50,208
Speaker 2: My family had said they'd help us by our first

403
00:20:50,208 --> 00:20:53,368
Speaker 2: place together, given we were engaged. We found the apartment,

404
00:20:54,008 --> 00:20:56,888
Speaker 2: and this was in the space of a couple of

405
00:20:56,888 --> 00:21:00,968
Speaker 2: weeks of looking. It was the perfect corner apartment, beautiful view,

406
00:21:01,528 --> 00:21:03,848
Speaker 2: really easy to give a little facelift and make our

407
00:21:03,888 --> 00:21:06,808
Speaker 2: own really quickly and not for too much money. So

408
00:21:06,968 --> 00:21:11,728
Speaker 2: we decided we'd go for it, and we bought this place.

409
00:21:12,008 --> 00:21:15,328
Speaker 2: It all happened very very quickly. We instantly made an

410
00:21:15,328 --> 00:21:19,008
Speaker 2: appointment at the bank to merge our finances. I work

411
00:21:19,288 --> 00:21:21,488
Speaker 2: in finance, so this is something that was really important

412
00:21:21,528 --> 00:21:23,368
Speaker 2: to me, so we could move together as a couple

413
00:21:23,488 --> 00:21:27,848
Speaker 2: and move forward. And we decided to consolidate our debts.

414
00:21:28,008 --> 00:21:29,928
Speaker 2: We both had a credit card debt at the time,

415
00:21:30,288 --> 00:21:32,608
Speaker 2: and we thought, let's put that into a personal loan

416
00:21:32,608 --> 00:21:34,728
Speaker 2: that we can easily pay off and open a joint

417
00:21:34,728 --> 00:21:37,687
Speaker 2: account so we can start saving for the wedding. So

418
00:21:37,888 --> 00:21:40,368
Speaker 2: at the meeting with the bank, he ends up being

419
00:21:40,368 --> 00:21:42,648
Speaker 2: the one to take out the personal loan and we

420
00:21:42,808 --> 00:21:45,848
Speaker 2: use that money to pay off my credit card, his

421
00:21:45,928 --> 00:21:48,688
Speaker 2: credit card, and then an extra four thousand dollars was

422
00:21:48,728 --> 00:21:51,648
Speaker 2: added to that personal loan to pay for his mum's

423
00:21:51,688 --> 00:21:54,768
Speaker 2: burial fees. He said, we're still outstanding and left on

424
00:21:54,848 --> 00:21:58,048
Speaker 2: him to pay because his stepdad was refusing to pay

425
00:21:58,168 --> 00:22:01,408
Speaker 2: for those fees. She'd only died about a year before,

426
00:22:01,648 --> 00:22:06,328
Speaker 2: he said, so. Essentially, he told me that she was

427
00:22:06,368 --> 00:22:10,688
Speaker 2: being buried in the cemetery, and he needed to pay

428
00:22:10,728 --> 00:22:14,608
Speaker 2: off those fees from when she'd passed. So everything was

429
00:22:14,648 --> 00:22:18,007
Speaker 2: going so well. I was on cloud nine, still in

430
00:22:18,048 --> 00:22:21,288
Speaker 2: my engagement bubble. We just bought our first apartment and

431
00:22:21,328 --> 00:22:24,368
Speaker 2: were waiting to settle and move in. My family loved Ben,

432
00:22:24,448 --> 00:22:28,247
Speaker 2: my friends loved Ben. We were freshly engaged and just

433
00:22:28,808 --> 00:22:31,608
Speaker 2: ready to start that next, more adult chapter of our

434
00:22:31,608 --> 00:22:36,007
Speaker 2: lives together. When we joined our finances, we decided to

435
00:22:36,368 --> 00:22:38,728
Speaker 2: set some savings goals. I owned a little bit more

436
00:22:38,768 --> 00:22:41,848
Speaker 2: than Ben at this point and made it really clear

437
00:22:41,888 --> 00:22:45,288
Speaker 2: to him that what's mine is what's his is mine.

438
00:22:45,328 --> 00:22:47,528
Speaker 2: I would be happy to help pay off those burial

439
00:22:47,568 --> 00:22:51,248
Speaker 2: fees on the person alone. A couple of weeks later,

440
00:22:51,888 --> 00:22:54,368
Speaker 2: we go out with my friends and the friend that

441
00:22:54,448 --> 00:22:58,128
Speaker 2: had told me about the cheating in February was out

442
00:22:58,128 --> 00:23:01,848
Speaker 2: with us and Ben and this friend ended up reconciling

443
00:23:02,048 --> 00:23:06,007
Speaker 2: that night and we were having the best time. We

444
00:23:06,008 --> 00:23:08,808
Speaker 2: were at a Korean bar and dancing on the tables,

445
00:23:09,288 --> 00:23:13,888
Speaker 2: making friends with everyone, drinking copious amounts of sojo. During

446
00:23:13,928 --> 00:23:19,328
Speaker 2: that night. While Ben was reconciling with my friend, he'd

447
00:23:19,368 --> 00:23:21,728
Speaker 2: given me his phone, which was really rare for him,

448
00:23:22,128 --> 00:23:25,448
Speaker 2: as he never let me touch his phone, but after

449
00:23:25,488 --> 00:23:28,528
Speaker 2: the cheating incident, he'd actually changed his passcode to the

450
00:23:28,528 --> 00:23:30,168
Speaker 2: same one as mine to give me peace of mind,

451
00:23:30,208 --> 00:23:32,208
Speaker 2: and I said, I'll never need to use it. I'll

452
00:23:32,208 --> 00:23:34,888
Speaker 2: never go through your phone. And while he was at

453
00:23:34,888 --> 00:23:38,168
Speaker 2: the bar reconciling with my friend, I decided to go

454
00:23:38,248 --> 00:23:41,167
Speaker 2: on to his phone and unblock that particular friend, given

455
00:23:41,168 --> 00:23:43,448
Speaker 2: they were making up. I don't know why. I think

456
00:23:43,488 --> 00:23:45,288
Speaker 2: I was drunk too, It was just a drunk decision.

457
00:23:45,328 --> 00:23:48,407
Speaker 2: And when I saw his blocked list, I noticed a

458
00:23:48,408 --> 00:23:51,448
Speaker 2: couple of names that stood out that were names of

459
00:23:51,488 --> 00:23:55,648
Speaker 2: his family members. So later on that night, Ben was

460
00:23:55,688 --> 00:23:59,728
Speaker 2: extremely drunk and he left his phone next to me

461
00:24:00,208 --> 00:24:02,208
Speaker 2: when he passed out in bed, and I went back

462
00:24:02,248 --> 00:24:04,608
Speaker 2: on and had a look. It's something I'm not proud

463
00:24:04,648 --> 00:24:06,408
Speaker 2: of and had never done before and had never even

464
00:24:06,448 --> 00:24:08,967
Speaker 2: thought of before. But something told me go back and

465
00:24:09,008 --> 00:24:11,248
Speaker 2: look at those names, and it was the names of

466
00:24:11,288 --> 00:24:15,688
Speaker 2: his dad and multiple names of his mum, And I thought,

467
00:24:15,688 --> 00:24:19,168
Speaker 2: this is really strange. His mom's dead and why would

468
00:24:19,168 --> 00:24:22,407
Speaker 2: there be multiple accounts with her name blocked? And I

469
00:24:22,448 --> 00:24:25,728
Speaker 2: went into his message requests and there was a message

470
00:24:25,768 --> 00:24:29,288
Speaker 2: from another account with his mum's name, and she was

471
00:24:29,408 --> 00:24:33,528
Speaker 2: essentially saying I'm so sorry, I'm clean now, or something

472
00:24:33,528 --> 00:24:37,728
Speaker 2: along those lines. And I've left a man's name I'm

473
00:24:37,768 --> 00:24:42,208
Speaker 2: assuming maybe his stepdad, please message me. I believe the

474
00:24:42,248 --> 00:24:46,247
Speaker 2: message was sent quite recently, not too much earlier, and

475
00:24:46,328 --> 00:24:50,448
Speaker 2: we had actually acknowledged the date of his mom's death

476
00:24:51,528 --> 00:24:53,888
Speaker 2: quite early on. I think it was in March. From memory,

477
00:24:53,968 --> 00:24:57,608
Speaker 2: he was really upset one day and we acknowledged the

478
00:24:57,648 --> 00:24:59,648
Speaker 2: fact that his mum had died. He posted a photo

479
00:24:59,688 --> 00:25:03,688
Speaker 2: of her on social media and said miss you. And

480
00:25:04,208 --> 00:25:06,447
Speaker 2: I remember lying in bed with him and he was

481
00:25:06,488 --> 00:25:10,848
Speaker 2: really upset talking about her death. So to see her

482
00:25:11,008 --> 00:25:15,248
Speaker 2: in his DMS in his message requests was a big shock.

483
00:25:15,688 --> 00:25:17,288
Speaker 2: And then I put two and two together that she

484
00:25:17,408 --> 00:25:24,167
Speaker 2: wasn't dead. I instantly went on that cemetery website and

485
00:25:24,208 --> 00:25:26,328
Speaker 2: I searched her name. It was nowhere to be found.

486
00:25:27,248 --> 00:25:30,848
Speaker 2: I searched her name on Google, couldn't find any information

487
00:25:30,888 --> 00:25:34,368
Speaker 2: at all about her or her death. And I just

488
00:25:34,448 --> 00:25:36,808
Speaker 2: knew in my gut she was alive and not dead,

489
00:25:36,888 --> 00:25:41,167
Speaker 2: and that he had lied about it. I felt really confused.

490
00:25:41,648 --> 00:25:45,328
Speaker 2: I felt betrayed, but something in me said don't jump

491
00:25:45,368 --> 00:25:48,128
Speaker 2: to conclusions. Just again, bring it up with him and

492
00:25:48,128 --> 00:25:50,568
Speaker 2: see what he has to say. I believe he's a

493
00:25:50,608 --> 00:25:52,848
Speaker 2: really good person, and if he told me that she

494
00:25:52,968 --> 00:25:56,608
Speaker 2: was dead, it was for good reason. And he obviously

495
00:25:56,608 --> 00:25:59,288
Speaker 2: didn't want to tell me the truth for one reason

496
00:25:59,368 --> 00:26:02,088
Speaker 2: or another. So the next morning, when he woke up,

497
00:26:02,128 --> 00:26:05,208
Speaker 2: I confronted him. I was open with him and told

498
00:26:05,248 --> 00:26:07,048
Speaker 2: him I'd been through his phone while he was asleep

499
00:26:07,048 --> 00:26:10,088
Speaker 2: and I saw this message. He told me that it

500
00:26:10,168 --> 00:26:13,448
Speaker 2: was his younger half brothers on his mom's side, and

501
00:26:13,488 --> 00:26:17,208
Speaker 2: that they were pretending to be his mom to get

502
00:26:17,208 --> 00:26:20,288
Speaker 2: money from him, because he'd previously been sending them money

503
00:26:20,328 --> 00:26:23,848
Speaker 2: to support them. I knew in my guard that this

504
00:26:24,008 --> 00:26:26,928
Speaker 2: wasn't true, and I just gave up the fight at

505
00:26:26,968 --> 00:26:30,248
Speaker 2: some point and accepted, he's not going to tell me

506
00:26:30,288 --> 00:26:32,288
Speaker 2: the truth here, but I knew his mom was alive.

507
00:26:33,168 --> 00:26:35,128
Speaker 2: I remember I went out for dinner with a friend

508
00:26:35,168 --> 00:26:37,568
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks later, and I told her about

509
00:26:37,568 --> 00:26:39,568
Speaker 2: what i'd seen and what I knew and what he

510
00:26:39,608 --> 00:26:42,808
Speaker 2: had told me, and she said, look, he seems like

511
00:26:42,808 --> 00:26:46,048
Speaker 2: a really good person, and you're right, he probably wouldn't

512
00:26:46,048 --> 00:26:48,048
Speaker 2: say that his mom's dead if it wasn't just the

513
00:26:48,088 --> 00:26:51,128
Speaker 2: easiest option. What other reason could that be? And so

514
00:26:51,208 --> 00:26:54,168
Speaker 2: I actually felt really sorry for him in the message

515
00:26:54,168 --> 00:26:58,408
Speaker 2: because it had mentioned from his mum that I'm clean

516
00:26:58,488 --> 00:27:03,568
Speaker 2: now and I've left my partner. I just knew, okay,

517
00:27:03,928 --> 00:27:06,888
Speaker 2: this relationship wasn't great, and he had been honest about

518
00:27:06,928 --> 00:27:09,407
Speaker 2: the fact that there were substance abuse issues there and

519
00:27:09,448 --> 00:27:12,568
Speaker 2: it was clearly a broken relationship. So I just decided,

520
00:27:12,608 --> 00:27:15,168
Speaker 2: I'm going to let this go and I'm not going

521
00:27:15,208 --> 00:27:17,528
Speaker 2: to push this and cause a huge fight. I mean,

522
00:27:17,928 --> 00:27:19,967
Speaker 2: what is the big deal? But then there was a

523
00:27:20,048 --> 00:27:22,368
Speaker 2: question of the personal loan and where that money had gone.

524
00:27:23,208 --> 00:27:26,608
Speaker 2: So I again just decided to let it go and

525
00:27:26,688 --> 00:27:28,568
Speaker 2: not cause a fight from it, and just accept that

526
00:27:28,848 --> 00:27:31,568
Speaker 2: he's telling me this because it's the easiest way and

527
00:27:31,608 --> 00:27:32,968
Speaker 2: he doesn't want to admit to the truth.

528
00:27:33,288 --> 00:27:36,648
Speaker 1: While part of Kate rationalized and trying to understand the situation,

529
00:27:37,328 --> 00:27:39,968
Speaker 1: there was a niggling feeling that wouldn't go away.

530
00:27:40,648 --> 00:27:42,888
Speaker 2: What I felt really uncomfortable about was the fact that

531
00:27:42,968 --> 00:27:46,048
Speaker 2: my whole family and whole friendship group knew that his

532
00:27:46,128 --> 00:27:48,247
Speaker 2: mum was dead, and when they'd ask me about him,

533
00:27:48,288 --> 00:27:51,528
Speaker 2: I'd say, well, he doesn't talk to his family. They're estranged,

534
00:27:51,528 --> 00:27:54,008
Speaker 2: and his mother passed away. His dad had left when

535
00:27:54,008 --> 00:27:56,928
Speaker 2: he was really young and started a new family, and

536
00:27:57,608 --> 00:28:00,168
Speaker 2: he had a lot of trauma that he hadn't worked through,

537
00:28:00,928 --> 00:28:03,328
Speaker 2: but he was happy on his own and had always

538
00:28:03,328 --> 00:28:06,568
Speaker 2: made it work with his previous partners. My mind then

539
00:28:06,688 --> 00:28:09,088
Speaker 2: turned to, well, what's this four thousand dollar burial feed

540
00:28:09,128 --> 00:28:11,488
Speaker 2: that I'm paying off and other fees that were paying

541
00:28:11,528 --> 00:28:14,167
Speaker 2: off together. And at that point I'd paid off maybe

542
00:28:14,208 --> 00:28:16,888
Speaker 2: half of that amount plus my own or I was

543
00:28:16,928 --> 00:28:18,808
Speaker 2: in the process of paying off half of that amount

544
00:28:18,848 --> 00:28:22,288
Speaker 2: plus my own debt with our person alone. There was

545
00:28:22,368 --> 00:28:25,808
Speaker 2: so many instances where he was taking me out for

546
00:28:25,928 --> 00:28:29,687
Speaker 2: extravagant dinners and buying me flowers and other gifts. Especially

547
00:28:29,768 --> 00:28:32,368
Speaker 2: on my birthday. He'd absolutely spoiled me. I had so

548
00:28:32,448 --> 00:28:35,048
Speaker 2: many gifts waiting for me when I woke up, and

549
00:28:35,088 --> 00:28:38,928
Speaker 2: I just was so confused. Where did that money go?

550
00:28:38,968 --> 00:28:40,608
Speaker 2: And I think I just put two and two together

551
00:28:40,648 --> 00:28:42,848
Speaker 2: in my head. Okay, he spent that, I think on me.

552
00:28:43,688 --> 00:28:45,288
Speaker 2: I knew at this point that I was ignoring some

553
00:28:45,328 --> 00:28:48,808
Speaker 2: really big red flags, but the good just outweighed the bad,

554
00:28:49,528 --> 00:28:51,568
Speaker 2: and you know, these were just a couple of little

555
00:28:51,608 --> 00:28:54,328
Speaker 2: hiccups in my mind, and we were engaged. He was

556
00:28:54,328 --> 00:28:57,368
Speaker 2: still the best person I knew, the person I trusted

557
00:28:57,888 --> 00:29:00,008
Speaker 2: and spent twenty four to seven with other than work.

558
00:29:00,408 --> 00:29:03,568
Speaker 2: When things were good, he was incredible. I would come

559
00:29:03,568 --> 00:29:05,608
Speaker 2: home and he would have written I love you and

560
00:29:05,768 --> 00:29:08,648
Speaker 2: tea light candles across my floor, and he'd write me

561
00:29:08,688 --> 00:29:12,088
Speaker 2: love notes, and there would be texts that he'd send

562
00:29:12,088 --> 00:29:14,048
Speaker 2: me in the middle of the day that were so romantic.

563
00:29:14,128 --> 00:29:16,808
Speaker 2: And I wasn't a romantic like him, and it didn't

564
00:29:16,808 --> 00:29:20,648
Speaker 2: come naturally to me. So I was slowly just warming

565
00:29:20,808 --> 00:29:23,248
Speaker 2: to this love that I was receiving it all times

566
00:29:23,248 --> 00:29:25,448
Speaker 2: of the day. And you know, I'd come home and

567
00:29:25,528 --> 00:29:27,528
Speaker 2: he would cook me dinner every night or take me

568
00:29:27,568 --> 00:29:31,808
Speaker 2: out for dinner, and everything just seemed perfect, other than

569
00:29:32,288 --> 00:29:35,088
Speaker 2: he'd cheated on me and he'd lied to me. And

570
00:29:35,128 --> 00:29:39,328
Speaker 2: I kept thinking, this is all completely opposite to how

571
00:29:39,448 --> 00:29:43,688
Speaker 2: my ex partner Jake treated me, and I'd rather this

572
00:29:44,128 --> 00:29:46,688
Speaker 2: than have him scream at me, block me, yell at me.

573
00:29:47,568 --> 00:29:50,248
Speaker 2: And I just thought this is the only alternative for myself.

574
00:29:50,328 --> 00:29:52,808
Speaker 2: I didn't actually ever entertain the idea of breaking up

575
00:29:52,928 --> 00:29:55,048
Speaker 2: with him. I never entertained the idea of being alone.

576
00:29:55,328 --> 00:29:58,248
Speaker 2: I just thought, this is our life together, now, this

577
00:29:58,448 --> 00:30:01,328
Speaker 2: was it, and I was blissfully happy. I just seemed

578
00:30:01,328 --> 00:30:04,368
Speaker 2: to compartmentalize these two big red flags.

579
00:30:04,288 --> 00:30:07,368
Speaker 1: And there were exciting times ahead, none more so than

580
00:30:07,408 --> 00:30:09,448
Speaker 1: finally moving into their very own apartment.

581
00:30:09,968 --> 00:30:13,728
Speaker 2: It feels like this fresh start. We are happy beyond,

582
00:30:14,448 --> 00:30:17,848
Speaker 2: and we make this apartment our home. We host my

583
00:30:17,928 --> 00:30:22,008
Speaker 2: family from interstate all the time, we have our friends

584
00:30:22,008 --> 00:30:24,728
Speaker 2: over all the time. It's just us and our cat,

585
00:30:24,888 --> 00:30:27,568
Speaker 2: and we're just in this little love bubble. Saving to

586
00:30:27,568 --> 00:30:32,208
Speaker 2: get ready for our marriage. We went into state and

587
00:30:32,288 --> 00:30:35,888
Speaker 2: visited some family. We had some great experiences together. I

588
00:30:35,928 --> 00:30:38,128
Speaker 2: took him to the UFC for his birthday. It was

589
00:30:38,248 --> 00:30:42,808
Speaker 2: his absolute passion. We absolutely just move forward together and

590
00:30:42,888 --> 00:30:45,128
Speaker 2: was stronger than ever, and I just felt like I

591
00:30:45,168 --> 00:30:47,888
Speaker 2: trusted him completely and holy, and there were no red

592
00:30:47,888 --> 00:30:50,808
Speaker 2: flags that he was looking any other way or telling

593
00:30:50,808 --> 00:30:53,888
Speaker 2: me any other lies. We just had the best, most

594
00:30:53,928 --> 00:30:58,408
Speaker 2: perfect year, just us in our pre marriage bubble, just

595
00:30:58,608 --> 00:31:02,888
Speaker 2: absolutely enjoying each other's company and everything was great. We

596
00:31:03,408 --> 00:31:06,768
Speaker 2: rarely fought. If we did, it was about silly things

597
00:31:06,888 --> 00:31:10,408
Speaker 2: like him wanting to earn more money, so he could

598
00:31:10,528 --> 00:31:13,168
Speaker 2: kind of catch up to me, or we would fight

599
00:31:13,648 --> 00:31:17,488
Speaker 2: about who would clean the kitchen and little silly things

600
00:31:17,528 --> 00:31:19,088
Speaker 2: like that. There was nothing major.

601
00:31:19,128 --> 00:31:21,808
Speaker 1: With the wedding approaching. Things were in such a good place.

602
00:31:22,128 --> 00:31:24,208
Speaker 1: It prompted a pretty important conversation.

603
00:31:24,568 --> 00:31:26,448
Speaker 2: It was a couple of nights before and my mom

604
00:31:26,488 --> 00:31:29,808
Speaker 2: had said to me while we were alone, how's Ben

605
00:31:29,888 --> 00:31:33,128
Speaker 2: feeling with none of his family attending the wedding? And

606
00:31:33,208 --> 00:31:36,568
Speaker 2: I said, well, my family is his family, and my

607
00:31:36,688 --> 00:31:38,968
Speaker 2: mom had kind of realized something was off with the

608
00:31:39,008 --> 00:31:42,208
Speaker 2: story about his mom being dead, and I think I

609
00:31:42,448 --> 00:31:44,128
Speaker 2: was trying so hard to cover for him, but I

610
00:31:44,128 --> 00:31:46,968
Speaker 2: didn't want to continue lying to my mom, so I said, well,

611
00:31:46,968 --> 00:31:49,608
Speaker 2: he thinks his mother's dead. We don't know if she's

612
00:31:49,648 --> 00:31:51,848
Speaker 2: actually dead. He was told by his brothers that she

613
00:31:52,008 --> 00:31:53,768
Speaker 2: was dead, and my mom knew that we'd taken out

614
00:31:53,768 --> 00:31:56,608
Speaker 2: this personal loan, so she kept saying, but what about

615
00:31:56,608 --> 00:31:58,888
Speaker 2: the burial fees then? And I said, oh, I think

616
00:31:59,088 --> 00:32:00,768
Speaker 2: there are other fees that were to do with her

617
00:32:00,808 --> 00:32:03,288
Speaker 2: mum's death. I don't know, And I just remember being

618
00:32:03,328 --> 00:32:06,808
Speaker 2: really cagy to my mom and feeling so awful for

619
00:32:06,888 --> 00:32:10,088
Speaker 2: lying to her, but also trying to get my and

620
00:32:10,088 --> 00:32:11,848
Speaker 2: get Ben out of the fact that my mom thought

621
00:32:11,848 --> 00:32:17,328
Speaker 2: that his mum was absolutely dead, and that really shocked

622
00:32:17,368 --> 00:32:19,448
Speaker 2: me and rocked me a couple of days before the

623
00:32:19,488 --> 00:32:22,128
Speaker 2: wedding having that conversation. So I brought it up with

624
00:32:22,208 --> 00:32:24,928
Speaker 2: him a couple of nights beforehand and I said, I

625
00:32:24,928 --> 00:32:27,848
Speaker 2: know your mom's alive, and he didn't deny it and

626
00:32:27,888 --> 00:32:31,408
Speaker 2: finally admitted to it. And I remember we had this

627
00:32:31,528 --> 00:32:35,048
Speaker 2: really mature, healthy discussion. He didn't try and make any excuses.

628
00:32:35,088 --> 00:32:36,848
Speaker 2: He just said it was what I thought. And he

629
00:32:36,888 --> 00:32:38,808
Speaker 2: said it was easier to tell people that she's dead.

630
00:32:39,168 --> 00:32:42,208
Speaker 2: And I said, okay, well, I'm still going to marry you.

631
00:32:42,848 --> 00:32:48,688
Speaker 2: And that was that. Our wedding day was the best

632
00:32:48,768 --> 00:32:52,608
Speaker 2: day of my life. It was the easiest, easiest wedding

633
00:32:52,608 --> 00:32:56,448
Speaker 2: preparation that year. Everything had gone to plan. We had

634
00:32:56,448 --> 00:32:59,288
Speaker 2: the best bridal party. We had so much fun. We

635
00:32:59,328 --> 00:33:02,848
Speaker 2: stayed in an airbnb together the night before and we

636
00:33:02,888 --> 00:33:05,408
Speaker 2: spent the whole day just surrounded by friends and family

637
00:33:05,448 --> 00:33:08,568
Speaker 2: getting ready and getting to our wedding venue. At the wedding,

638
00:33:09,208 --> 00:33:12,968
Speaker 2: we had the best time ever. Everyone was in fits

639
00:33:12,968 --> 00:33:16,208
Speaker 2: of laughter the whole evening. We could not stop laughing.

640
00:33:16,888 --> 00:33:19,728
Speaker 2: My dad cried. My mom and my dad walked me

641
00:33:19,768 --> 00:33:23,168
Speaker 2: down the aisle, and the whole time we were just

642
00:33:23,248 --> 00:33:26,968
Speaker 2: cracking jokes and it was just the most joyous, joyous

643
00:33:27,048 --> 00:33:30,008
Speaker 2: day of my life, surrounded by everyone that loved us,

644
00:33:30,848 --> 00:33:33,648
Speaker 2: all of my friends, all of Ben's friends, all of

645
00:33:33,688 --> 00:33:36,848
Speaker 2: my family had traveled down from interstate to be there,

646
00:33:37,448 --> 00:33:41,248
Speaker 2: and it was the most memorable day. We danced to

647
00:33:41,688 --> 00:33:45,648
Speaker 2: this beautiful song Sunflower by Rex Orange County, and it

648
00:33:45,768 --> 00:33:48,248
Speaker 2: was the most special song to us. Sunflowers are my

649
00:33:48,248 --> 00:33:51,968
Speaker 2: favorite flower, and he bought me sunflower bunches all the time.

650
00:33:52,528 --> 00:33:56,448
Speaker 2: It was the most beautiful, beautiful evening with my favorite song,

651
00:33:56,488 --> 00:33:59,288
Speaker 2: the best music. My dad was so happy, my whole

652
00:33:59,288 --> 00:34:00,888
Speaker 2: family was so happy, and it was just yeah. We

653
00:34:00,888 --> 00:34:03,248
Speaker 2: were surrounded by lad and joy and it was the

654
00:34:03,328 --> 00:34:03,808
Speaker 2: best day.

655
00:34:04,128 --> 00:34:06,968
Speaker 1: It was only fitting their best day ever led straight

656
00:34:07,008 --> 00:34:09,968
Speaker 1: into the trip of a lifetime, the perfect beginning to

657
00:34:10,008 --> 00:34:10,848
Speaker 1: their next chapter.

658
00:34:11,808 --> 00:34:14,248
Speaker 2: It was our first kind of proper holiday overseas together.

659
00:34:14,848 --> 00:34:17,848
Speaker 2: It was perfect, and we went to Paris, we went

660
00:34:17,888 --> 00:34:20,128
Speaker 2: to Rome, we went to Amsterdam and other places. It

661
00:34:20,168 --> 00:34:23,488
Speaker 2: was just the dream Europe trip for us, and it

662
00:34:23,568 --> 00:34:26,728
Speaker 2: was so beautiful. Could not have gone better. When we

663
00:34:26,768 --> 00:34:30,008
Speaker 2: got back. We had always said we'd tried for kids,

664
00:34:30,568 --> 00:34:34,288
Speaker 2: and so we were starting to think about trying and

665
00:34:34,488 --> 00:34:37,488
Speaker 2: getting our finances back in order. We hadn't really left

666
00:34:37,528 --> 00:34:39,648
Speaker 2: the wedding with much debt or anything. We had some

667
00:34:39,728 --> 00:34:42,248
Speaker 2: help from my family and had saved really hard together

668
00:34:42,368 --> 00:34:45,247
Speaker 2: to pay off our original credit card debts and then

669
00:34:45,488 --> 00:34:48,008
Speaker 2: be able to fund this wedding ourselves. And we'd done

670
00:34:48,048 --> 00:34:50,328
Speaker 2: a really, really great job at that. So we thought,

671
00:34:50,408 --> 00:34:52,688
Speaker 2: let's regroup, take a couple of months to save and

672
00:34:52,768 --> 00:34:54,728
Speaker 2: also buy some things for ourselves that we hadn't been

673
00:34:54,768 --> 00:35:00,008
Speaker 2: able to while planning and honeymoon saving, and we decided

674
00:35:00,008 --> 00:35:03,368
Speaker 2: that we'd try for kids later that year. Then COVID hit,

675
00:35:04,368 --> 00:35:10,808
Speaker 2: and the first week into COVID, my dad passed away unexpectedly.

676
00:35:12,008 --> 00:35:15,647
Speaker 2: I'll never forget getting that phone call and finding out

677
00:35:15,688 --> 00:35:21,928
Speaker 2: that my dad had died. It was so surreal, and

678
00:35:21,968 --> 00:35:28,328
Speaker 2: I was beside myself. I remember just being almost catatonic

679
00:35:28,848 --> 00:35:32,488
Speaker 2: in bed, and Ben was just beside himself as well.

680
00:35:32,768 --> 00:35:35,808
Speaker 2: My dad was like his dad, and I remember he

681
00:35:35,808 --> 00:35:38,167
Speaker 2: held me all night until we got up to catch

682
00:35:38,208 --> 00:35:40,768
Speaker 2: a plane at six am. The next morning. We flew

683
00:35:40,768 --> 00:35:43,607
Speaker 2: into State to be with my family and I said,

684
00:35:43,688 --> 00:35:46,527
Speaker 2: I want to go to the spot where my dad

685
00:35:46,528 --> 00:35:49,167
Speaker 2: had passed. He had passed really suddenly while riding a bike,

686
00:35:50,168 --> 00:35:53,567
Speaker 2: and I all night had had these visions of where

687
00:35:53,608 --> 00:35:56,848
Speaker 2: my dad was, and luckily we knew he'd passed really

688
00:35:56,888 --> 00:36:00,687
Speaker 2: quickly from a heart attack and he was most likely

689
00:36:00,688 --> 00:36:02,528
Speaker 2: dead before he hit the ground, so he didn't suffer.

690
00:36:02,928 --> 00:36:05,448
Speaker 2: And we knew he'd left a cafe twenty minutes before that,

691
00:36:06,128 --> 00:36:10,087
Speaker 2: so it wasn't long before he was found. And I said,

692
00:36:10,088 --> 00:36:11,368
Speaker 2: I want to go to the spot and I want

693
00:36:11,368 --> 00:36:13,848
Speaker 2: to see Dad. I want to see his body. And

694
00:36:14,848 --> 00:36:17,848
Speaker 2: my older brother and sister decided to come to We

695
00:36:17,928 --> 00:36:20,008
Speaker 2: drove a couple of hours to where my dad had

696
00:36:20,048 --> 00:36:22,968
Speaker 2: been staying at my sister's house house sitting for them,

697
00:36:23,808 --> 00:36:27,328
Speaker 2: and Ben was by my side the whole time. He

698
00:36:27,448 --> 00:36:29,488
Speaker 2: was holding my hand. He never let me out of

699
00:36:29,528 --> 00:36:33,728
Speaker 2: his sight. He was there comforting my family. He kissed

700
00:36:33,768 --> 00:36:35,567
Speaker 2: my dad on the cheek or the forehead when we

701
00:36:35,568 --> 00:36:37,888
Speaker 2: saw his body. He came with us to the location

702
00:36:38,448 --> 00:36:40,728
Speaker 2: where my dad had passed, and he was just the

703
00:36:40,728 --> 00:36:43,567
Speaker 2: perfect husband. In that moment. I knew he was just

704
00:36:43,608 --> 00:36:47,848
Speaker 2: as devastated as I was. The last messages from my

705
00:36:47,968 --> 00:36:50,928
Speaker 2: dad that i'd received the day before to me and

706
00:36:51,008 --> 00:36:53,968
Speaker 2: not to our group chat were my dad asking how

707
00:36:54,008 --> 00:36:58,408
Speaker 2: Ben was. And I'll never forget that that's the last

708
00:36:58,408 --> 00:37:02,728
Speaker 2: thing my dad had heard from me. After that, everything

709
00:37:02,808 --> 00:37:07,368
Speaker 2: kind of changed in terms of our mindset around kids.

710
00:37:08,168 --> 00:37:10,888
Speaker 2: I really wanted to start trying sooner rather than later,

711
00:37:11,368 --> 00:37:16,087
Speaker 2: and I kept thinking, well, COVID's just hit. What if

712
00:37:16,648 --> 00:37:20,168
Speaker 2: my grandma passes, or what if my mom something happened

713
00:37:20,208 --> 00:37:23,168
Speaker 2: to my mom? And so I really wanted to start trying,

714
00:37:23,888 --> 00:37:27,488
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden Ben wanted the opposite, and

715
00:37:27,528 --> 00:37:30,488
Speaker 2: he said, I'm not ready. I think this is really

716
00:37:30,608 --> 00:37:33,567
Speaker 2: changed the way I feel about it, and just want

717
00:37:33,608 --> 00:37:36,248
Speaker 2: to do some things for myself first. And I said

718
00:37:36,248 --> 00:37:37,928
Speaker 2: what are those things? And he said, I want to

719
00:37:38,288 --> 00:37:41,607
Speaker 2: get my blue belt in jiu jitsu, I want to

720
00:37:41,648 --> 00:37:44,127
Speaker 2: fix up the shitty tattoos that I have that I'm

721
00:37:44,168 --> 00:37:47,688
Speaker 2: not proud of. And I want to earn X amount

722
00:37:47,728 --> 00:37:50,288
Speaker 2: of money. And there were these things that he wanted,

723
00:37:50,288 --> 00:37:51,888
Speaker 2: and I said, well, they're just, you know, things you

724
00:37:51,888 --> 00:37:54,087
Speaker 2: can do anyway, They're not things you need to do

725
00:37:54,128 --> 00:37:57,168
Speaker 2: before we have kids. But eventually I came round and

726
00:37:57,208 --> 00:37:59,488
Speaker 2: I respected his decision and I didn't want to force anything,

727
00:37:59,608 --> 00:38:02,527
Speaker 2: so we put a halt on trying for kids and

728
00:38:02,648 --> 00:38:06,928
Speaker 2: just decided to navigate COVID. We both got promotions during

729
00:38:06,928 --> 00:38:10,207
Speaker 2: that time, and I was working really, really hard while

730
00:38:10,208 --> 00:38:13,808
Speaker 2: we were in lockdown, so was he. And Ben was

731
00:38:14,248 --> 00:38:16,968
Speaker 2: really determined to catch up to me in his career,

732
00:38:17,528 --> 00:38:20,088
Speaker 2: and that was something he was really really self conscious

733
00:38:20,088 --> 00:38:23,008
Speaker 2: about and would be a constant state of discussion for us.

734
00:38:23,328 --> 00:38:25,928
Speaker 2: I kept saying to him, well, I have seven plus

735
00:38:26,008 --> 00:38:27,928
Speaker 2: years on you at my job. You've only just started

736
00:38:27,928 --> 00:38:29,488
Speaker 2: at your job. You need to be patient with yourself

737
00:38:29,488 --> 00:38:31,848
Speaker 2: where it doesn't matter what's mine is yours. I'm not

738
00:38:31,928 --> 00:38:34,248
Speaker 2: thinking that I earn more than you and holding it

739
00:38:34,288 --> 00:38:36,728
Speaker 2: against you. And it wasn't by much at all, but

740
00:38:36,848 --> 00:38:39,288
Speaker 2: somehow he kept putting value on that, and so there

741
00:38:39,328 --> 00:38:41,128
Speaker 2: was a lot of pressure he was putting on himself

742
00:38:41,168 --> 00:38:43,408
Speaker 2: to work really hard, and I knew that that was

743
00:38:43,408 --> 00:38:47,528
Speaker 2: also impacting him and his mental health. I really enjoyed

744
00:38:47,528 --> 00:38:50,848
Speaker 2: COVID because it brought me closer to my family. I

745
00:38:50,888 --> 00:38:53,368
Speaker 2: didn't have to go and talk about the death of

746
00:38:53,408 --> 00:38:55,688
Speaker 2: my father whenever I spoke to someone. Because we were

747
00:38:55,728 --> 00:38:58,527
Speaker 2: all communicating through screens. I was able to kind of

748
00:38:58,568 --> 00:39:02,808
Speaker 2: process my grief alone and be in my own kind

749
00:39:02,808 --> 00:39:05,128
Speaker 2: of little bubble where I was just speaking to the

750
00:39:05,128 --> 00:39:07,448
Speaker 2: friends I wanted to speak to, and I wasn't feeling

751
00:39:07,448 --> 00:39:09,168
Speaker 2: like I needed to go out and all of a

752
00:39:09,168 --> 00:39:11,928
Speaker 2: sudden social So it was a really really great time

753
00:39:11,968 --> 00:39:15,248
Speaker 2: for me, and I was just taking every positive out

754
00:39:15,248 --> 00:39:16,048
Speaker 2: of it that I could.

755
00:39:16,528 --> 00:39:20,088
Speaker 1: One year of navigating lockdowns later, Kaid had been working

756
00:39:20,088 --> 00:39:22,608
Speaker 1: through her grief and things were going pretty well, so

757
00:39:22,768 --> 00:39:25,648
Speaker 1: for like the right time to start trying for a family.

758
00:39:26,208 --> 00:39:29,008
Speaker 2: I was taking the pregnancy vitamins, I was doing all

759
00:39:29,008 --> 00:39:31,848
Speaker 2: the research. I was peeing on the ovulation sticks, taking

760
00:39:31,848 --> 00:39:34,968
Speaker 2: my temperature every single day. We were doing everything we

761
00:39:34,968 --> 00:39:38,568
Speaker 2: could to try for kids properly and feeling really ready

762
00:39:38,768 --> 00:39:42,448
Speaker 2: to do that as well. Not long after this, we

763
00:39:42,568 --> 00:39:45,208
Speaker 2: decided to start looking at houses. I think COVID had

764
00:39:45,248 --> 00:39:48,408
Speaker 2: really solidified for us that we were stuck in this

765
00:39:48,448 --> 00:39:50,968
Speaker 2: two bedroom apartment and needed a bit more space, especially

766
00:39:50,968 --> 00:39:53,688
Speaker 2: if we were trying for kids, and so we started

767
00:39:53,688 --> 00:39:57,168
Speaker 2: the search for our dream home. I had inherited some

768
00:39:57,288 --> 00:40:01,567
Speaker 2: money after my dad's death and really wanted to either

769
00:40:01,688 --> 00:40:04,808
Speaker 2: use that money to travel overseas and take a long

770
00:40:04,848 --> 00:40:08,128
Speaker 2: holiday together post covid or. I wanted to use it

771
00:40:08,168 --> 00:40:11,288
Speaker 2: for property, then was adamant he didn't want to use

772
00:40:11,288 --> 00:40:14,128
Speaker 2: it to go overseas, and we had a few lengthy

773
00:40:14,128 --> 00:40:16,087
Speaker 2: discussions where he said, well, you can just go without me,

774
00:40:16,728 --> 00:40:19,088
Speaker 2: and I was really upset by this. It would normally

775
00:40:19,168 --> 00:40:22,488
Speaker 2: end with myself in tears and I'd say, well, I

776
00:40:22,488 --> 00:40:24,527
Speaker 2: don't want to go overseas without you, and this is

777
00:40:24,568 --> 00:40:26,167
Speaker 2: my money and I want to use it on both

778
00:40:26,208 --> 00:40:27,888
Speaker 2: of us, and I really want to travel and see

779
00:40:27,888 --> 00:40:30,848
Speaker 2: the world, especially before we have kids. But he said no,

780
00:40:30,968 --> 00:40:32,808
Speaker 2: let's use it on property, and I said, okay, well

781
00:40:32,808 --> 00:40:34,728
Speaker 2: that's the other thing I would use it on, so yes,

782
00:40:34,808 --> 00:40:38,288
Speaker 2: let's do that. Then the house hunting was really exciting

783
00:40:38,328 --> 00:40:40,127
Speaker 2: for us. We really had a goal that we were

784
00:40:40,128 --> 00:40:42,527
Speaker 2: both working towards, and we were spending every weekend going

785
00:40:42,528 --> 00:40:46,608
Speaker 2: to inspections. We bid in two different auctions and unfortunately

786
00:40:46,648 --> 00:40:49,728
Speaker 2: weren't successful, and then went on a day where we

787
00:40:49,728 --> 00:40:51,968
Speaker 2: saw seven or eight different properties in the one morning.

788
00:40:52,408 --> 00:40:54,328
Speaker 2: We fell in love with two of them. After the

789
00:40:54,408 --> 00:40:58,488
Speaker 2: second property, which was closer to so many amenities, then

790
00:40:58,808 --> 00:41:01,648
Speaker 2: walked outside and he said, let's put an offer on

791
00:41:01,688 --> 00:41:04,687
Speaker 2: this one. I love this house. It's beautiful, and I said,

792
00:41:04,688 --> 00:41:07,448
Speaker 2: I love it too. I think we should. However, the

793
00:41:07,488 --> 00:41:09,528
Speaker 2: other property was still stuck in both of our minds.

794
00:41:09,888 --> 00:41:13,128
Speaker 2: We got home and had a really lengthy discussion about

795
00:41:13,168 --> 00:41:17,648
Speaker 2: it and Ben said he changed his mind and he

796
00:41:17,688 --> 00:41:20,408
Speaker 2: wanted to go for the other property. So we had

797
00:41:20,728 --> 00:41:24,048
Speaker 2: lengthy discussions that would last well into the night about

798
00:41:24,048 --> 00:41:26,288
Speaker 2: both these properties and whether we should bid on one

799
00:41:26,328 --> 00:41:29,928
Speaker 2: or the other. They were pretty similar in price and

800
00:41:31,168 --> 00:41:33,687
Speaker 2: there were selling points for both, but I was more

801
00:41:33,728 --> 00:41:36,448
Speaker 2: sold on the second property that Ben had originally said

802
00:41:36,448 --> 00:41:38,647
Speaker 2: he really wanted to bid on, and he was really

803
00:41:38,688 --> 00:41:40,488
Speaker 2: sold on the first one that we did both love

804
00:41:40,568 --> 00:41:43,607
Speaker 2: but didn't have that same reaction at first. The first

805
00:41:43,608 --> 00:41:46,968
Speaker 2: property as well, wasn't as close to really important amenities

806
00:41:47,048 --> 00:41:49,648
Speaker 2: like public transport, as I didn't drive, so that was

807
00:41:49,928 --> 00:41:52,608
Speaker 2: a big deciding factor for me. And there was definitely

808
00:41:52,608 --> 00:41:57,328
Speaker 2: some tension during these discussions, and I remember one day

809
00:41:57,768 --> 00:42:00,968
Speaker 2: Ben said, no, it's your money, let's go for the

810
00:42:00,968 --> 00:42:04,408
Speaker 2: one you like, and I said, well, I don't want

811
00:42:04,408 --> 00:42:07,088
Speaker 2: this to be a point of resentment in our relationship

812
00:42:07,128 --> 00:42:09,527
Speaker 2: moving forward. If we're going to buy this, we both

813
00:42:09,568 --> 00:42:11,568
Speaker 2: need to be all in. This is a huge huge

814
00:42:11,568 --> 00:42:15,328
Speaker 2: decision to take out a mortgage this big, and it's

815
00:42:15,328 --> 00:42:18,087
Speaker 2: an absolute thing that we need to be aligned on.

816
00:42:19,088 --> 00:42:22,607
Speaker 2: I continue to have discussions like this with him, and

817
00:42:23,048 --> 00:42:25,488
Speaker 2: he ends up saying, no, I love this property too,

818
00:42:25,568 --> 00:42:28,168
Speaker 2: It's beautiful. We absolutely should go for it. We'd be

819
00:42:28,208 --> 00:42:30,728
Speaker 2: silly not too, and so we put an offer on

820
00:42:30,768 --> 00:42:34,728
Speaker 2: the property. We're really excited when within a day our

821
00:42:34,768 --> 00:42:39,208
Speaker 2: offer gets accepted and it's our first home together, our

822
00:42:39,208 --> 00:42:43,568
Speaker 2: first real house. The house itself had so much character

823
00:42:43,848 --> 00:42:46,008
Speaker 2: and would need a bit of work, but we were

824
00:42:46,048 --> 00:42:50,128
Speaker 2: both ready to take that on. It's a Victorian terrast,

825
00:42:50,248 --> 00:42:53,848
Speaker 2: so was absolutely an investment in terms of it would

826
00:42:53,848 --> 00:42:58,728
Speaker 2: increase in value given the heritage aspect, and the location

827
00:42:58,968 --> 00:43:02,128
Speaker 2: was only just getting more and more popular in the market.

828
00:43:02,888 --> 00:43:05,968
Speaker 2: Once we settle on the house in December twenty twenty one,

829
00:43:06,408 --> 00:43:11,648
Speaker 2: Ben starts acting really distant and I felt him really

830
00:43:11,808 --> 00:43:15,728
Speaker 2: visibly pull away. We celebrated with our friends and we

831
00:43:15,768 --> 00:43:19,207
Speaker 2: took photos outside the for sale sign, putting the salt

832
00:43:19,248 --> 00:43:21,808
Speaker 2: sticker on the house, We went for drinks. We had

833
00:43:22,528 --> 00:43:25,408
Speaker 2: a few days of real joy together and excitement about

834
00:43:25,448 --> 00:43:28,567
Speaker 2: moving into the property. But the moment we settle I

835
00:43:28,608 --> 00:43:29,568
Speaker 2: felt him pull away.

836
00:43:30,008 --> 00:43:33,448
Speaker 1: It was only weeks since they'd achieved this huge milestone together.

837
00:43:34,008 --> 00:43:36,647
Speaker 1: Kate could sense something was wrong. She just couldn't quite

838
00:43:36,648 --> 00:43:38,688
Speaker 1: put her finger on it, and the lead up to

839
00:43:38,688 --> 00:43:40,928
Speaker 1: Ben's thirtieth it got a whole lot worse.

840
00:43:41,608 --> 00:43:45,087
Speaker 2: The day before Ben's birthday, Ben says, I want to

841
00:43:45,128 --> 00:43:47,928
Speaker 2: take you to dinner. And this was a couple of

842
00:43:48,008 --> 00:43:51,127
Speaker 2: days after we'd moved into the new house, and he said,

843
00:43:51,208 --> 00:43:53,408
Speaker 2: let's go to the pub down the road. And I'd

844
00:43:53,408 --> 00:43:54,848
Speaker 2: been saying, I really want to try it out. It's

845
00:43:54,848 --> 00:43:57,047
Speaker 2: basically our neighbor. Let's go, and so I was really

846
00:43:57,048 --> 00:43:59,368
Speaker 2: excited that he'd asked me to dinner. I got a

847
00:43:59,408 --> 00:44:01,968
Speaker 2: bit dressed up, so did he, and we went to

848
00:44:02,008 --> 00:44:05,647
Speaker 2: the pub together and while we were talking, he brought up,

849
00:44:05,848 --> 00:44:07,368
Speaker 2: out of the blue, what if I don't want to

850
00:44:07,368 --> 00:44:13,208
Speaker 2: be married anymore? My heart sunk, and I remember I

851
00:44:13,248 --> 00:44:18,408
Speaker 2: instantly started crying in the pub. And we talked and

852
00:44:18,448 --> 00:44:20,808
Speaker 2: talked and talked about it, and I was so confused,

853
00:44:20,888 --> 00:44:23,167
Speaker 2: and I said, what is this, what's going on? Why

854
00:44:23,168 --> 00:44:26,488
Speaker 2: don't you want to be married anymore? And he essentially

855
00:44:26,528 --> 00:44:29,768
Speaker 2: said that he doesn't see a life with me anymore

856
00:44:30,168 --> 00:44:33,808
Speaker 2: and wanted some time to himself for his thirtieth I

857
00:44:33,848 --> 00:44:35,848
Speaker 2: had put aside part of my bonus that year and

858
00:44:35,928 --> 00:44:38,687
Speaker 2: taken out ten thousand dollars in cash for a trip

859
00:44:38,728 --> 00:44:42,168
Speaker 2: for us to Japan. And we got home and he said,

860
00:44:42,728 --> 00:44:46,288
Speaker 2: let's do gifts early. And this is after a discussion

861
00:44:46,288 --> 00:44:48,168
Speaker 2: where he said he didn't want to be married anymore.

862
00:44:49,488 --> 00:44:52,368
Speaker 2: And I said, okay, that I feel like this is

863
00:44:52,368 --> 00:44:54,288
Speaker 2: the wrong gift to give you right now. And I

864
00:44:54,328 --> 00:44:57,248
Speaker 2: don't know how you're going to feel about this, because

865
00:44:57,328 --> 00:45:00,008
Speaker 2: I don't know how you'll react and if there'll be

866
00:45:00,008 --> 00:45:04,328
Speaker 2: an imbalance with us. And I gave him his gift

867
00:45:05,088 --> 00:45:07,448
Speaker 2: and he was so excited and so happy, and I said,

868
00:45:07,448 --> 00:45:09,488
Speaker 2: this is for our future Japan trip. We just wanted

869
00:45:09,488 --> 00:45:12,568
Speaker 2: to go to Japan together, and he said he was

870
00:45:12,608 --> 00:45:17,168
Speaker 2: so grateful. He was so thankful, and everything kind of

871
00:45:17,568 --> 00:45:19,328
Speaker 2: went back to normal for the rest of the evening,

872
00:45:20,128 --> 00:45:23,087
Speaker 2: but I felt sick in my stomach. The next day.

873
00:45:23,328 --> 00:45:27,127
Speaker 2: I remember getting home and he said to me, what

874
00:45:27,168 --> 00:45:28,488
Speaker 2: if I don't want to go to Japan with you

875
00:45:28,528 --> 00:45:31,328
Speaker 2: and I want to go alone? And I remember again

876
00:45:31,368 --> 00:45:33,208
Speaker 2: my heart just broke and I just didn't know what

877
00:45:33,288 --> 00:45:34,968
Speaker 2: to say, and I said, well, how could you now,

878
00:45:34,968 --> 00:45:36,848
Speaker 2: I feel like it's like me trying to bribe your

879
00:45:36,848 --> 00:45:38,848
Speaker 2: love and me trying it. This is, you know, something

880
00:45:38,888 --> 00:45:40,687
Speaker 2: I really wanted to do for you and for us,

881
00:45:40,768 --> 00:45:44,127
Speaker 2: and I worked really hard for this money, and it's

882
00:45:44,488 --> 00:45:46,608
Speaker 2: something I want us to have, is a trip to

883
00:45:46,648 --> 00:45:48,488
Speaker 2: look forward to. We keep talking about wanting to go

884
00:45:48,528 --> 00:45:51,448
Speaker 2: to Japan, and now it's we've bought our house, it's

885
00:45:51,488 --> 00:45:54,808
Speaker 2: post COVID. We can go overseas together when the border

886
00:45:54,888 --> 00:45:56,848
Speaker 2: is open. Let's book in this Japan trip. And he said,

887
00:45:56,888 --> 00:45:59,408
Speaker 2: I just I want to go alone. And I just

888
00:45:59,688 --> 00:46:01,688
Speaker 2: I didn't even know what to say. And I knew

889
00:46:01,848 --> 00:46:04,647
Speaker 2: something was very broken with us at that point. So

890
00:46:04,728 --> 00:46:06,888
Speaker 2: I spoke to my mom. I think i'd been speaking

891
00:46:06,888 --> 00:46:08,808
Speaker 2: to her and the lead up to this and saying

892
00:46:08,808 --> 00:46:12,008
Speaker 2: how detached I felt. And I said to her, I

893
00:46:12,048 --> 00:46:14,768
Speaker 2: think I need to come visit you into state, and

894
00:46:15,848 --> 00:46:19,248
Speaker 2: I need to give Ben some space, because clearly he's confused,

895
00:46:19,248 --> 00:46:21,047
Speaker 2: he's lost, he doesn't know what he wants. I think

896
00:46:21,088 --> 00:46:23,848
Speaker 2: turning thirty had really shocked him. I think opening our

897
00:46:23,848 --> 00:46:26,207
Speaker 2: bank account and seeing a million dollars in debt really

898
00:46:26,208 --> 00:46:30,047
Speaker 2: shocked him. I think having to work really hard for

899
00:46:30,408 --> 00:46:32,968
Speaker 2: our money had really shocked him. To be able to

900
00:46:32,968 --> 00:46:35,567
Speaker 2: pay the mortgage, and knowing that things were going to

901
00:46:35,568 --> 00:46:38,567
Speaker 2: be a little bit tighter really shocked him. And he'd

902
00:46:38,568 --> 00:46:40,087
Speaker 2: said he was ready for all these things, and we

903
00:46:40,088 --> 00:46:43,488
Speaker 2: were still trying for kids at this point, and I

904
00:46:43,528 --> 00:46:45,768
Speaker 2: was making assumptions, but I think all of these really

905
00:46:45,808 --> 00:46:50,848
Speaker 2: adult decisions sent him into a complete phase where he

906
00:46:50,968 --> 00:46:53,168
Speaker 2: was just absolutely lost and didn't know how to proceed

907
00:46:53,168 --> 00:46:55,968
Speaker 2: with life. He did put a lot of pressure on

908
00:46:56,048 --> 00:46:58,288
Speaker 2: himself turning thirty, and he said he wasn't where he'd

909
00:46:58,328 --> 00:47:01,488
Speaker 2: imagined himself. And I said, well, you're married, we're trying

910
00:47:01,488 --> 00:47:03,888
Speaker 2: for kids, We've just bought our dream house, and you know,

911
00:47:03,928 --> 00:47:06,567
Speaker 2: people would die to have what we have, like we

912
00:47:06,648 --> 00:47:10,167
Speaker 2: are so privileged, and you know, we are so lucky

913
00:47:10,168 --> 00:47:11,408
Speaker 2: to be where we are in life and to have

914
00:47:11,448 --> 00:47:13,328
Speaker 2: each other and to be a team, and to have

915
00:47:13,368 --> 00:47:16,368
Speaker 2: our health and our stability in our workplaces and the

916
00:47:16,368 --> 00:47:18,248
Speaker 2: friends that we have and the family that I have.

917
00:47:18,648 --> 00:47:21,408
Speaker 2: So what's missing I don't understand. And he just couldn't

918
00:47:21,448 --> 00:47:23,688
Speaker 2: tell me. So I said, all right, I'm going to

919
00:47:23,728 --> 00:47:26,288
Speaker 2: give you some space and I'm going to go to Queensland.

920
00:47:27,288 --> 00:47:29,968
Speaker 2: And I asked him if he'd get counseling with me,

921
00:47:30,448 --> 00:47:31,167
Speaker 2: and he said yes.

922
00:47:32,088 --> 00:47:35,688
Speaker 1: Kate needed space, a safe space, so she packed her

923
00:47:35,688 --> 00:47:37,888
Speaker 1: banks and went into state to stay with their mum.

924
00:47:38,248 --> 00:47:40,167
Speaker 1: What was meant to be a few days turned into

925
00:47:40,208 --> 00:47:44,408
Speaker 1: three weeks. Is Ben's behavior remained cruel and cold. That

926
00:47:44,648 --> 00:47:46,047
Speaker 1: was until Valentine's Day.

927
00:47:46,328 --> 00:47:49,368
Speaker 2: He admitted that he missed me. On Valentine's Day, we

928
00:47:49,448 --> 00:47:52,527
Speaker 2: had a phone call that lasted hours and it was

929
00:47:52,568 --> 00:47:54,608
Speaker 2: like we were back to our old selves. We were laughing,

930
00:47:55,488 --> 00:47:59,087
Speaker 2: we were crying, we were talking about us in our relationship,

931
00:47:59,448 --> 00:48:02,688
Speaker 2: and it was really beautiful. We then go on to

932
00:48:02,768 --> 00:48:05,528
Speaker 2: have our joint counseling session a couple of days later.

933
00:48:05,608 --> 00:48:08,408
Speaker 2: It was our first one with the joint counselor. The

934
00:48:08,488 --> 00:48:11,047
Speaker 2: first thing I remember saying when we got into the

935
00:48:11,128 --> 00:48:13,248
Speaker 2: joint counseling session and it was my time to speak,

936
00:48:13,408 --> 00:48:17,248
Speaker 2: was did you cheat on me? And he said yes,

937
00:48:17,608 --> 00:48:20,728
Speaker 2: I did, and he wanted to wait till the counselor

938
00:48:20,808 --> 00:48:22,688
Speaker 2: was there to admit it to me, and he couldn't

939
00:48:22,688 --> 00:48:25,528
Speaker 2: admit it. The week before, he says he was out drinking.

940
00:48:25,648 --> 00:48:28,168
Speaker 2: He doesn't even remember the girl's name. He says he

941
00:48:28,208 --> 00:48:31,527
Speaker 2: didn't take his wedding ring off when it happened, and

942
00:48:31,608 --> 00:48:34,808
Speaker 2: I was absolutely disgusted and I couldn't believe that he's

943
00:48:34,808 --> 00:48:37,647
Speaker 2: done this to me again. And the counselor said, well,

944
00:48:37,728 --> 00:48:39,448
Speaker 2: you know, now you need to make a decision. Are

945
00:48:39,488 --> 00:48:42,008
Speaker 2: you going to move forward or not? And Ben said,

946
00:48:42,048 --> 00:48:45,768
Speaker 2: I want to be with Kate. I want to be together.

947
00:48:46,328 --> 00:48:49,288
Speaker 2: I absolutely think that the marriage is worth fighting for

948
00:48:49,328 --> 00:48:50,888
Speaker 2: and that we can work through this, and I'm committed

949
00:48:50,928 --> 00:48:52,567
Speaker 2: to doing it. Then I said I need to think

950
00:48:52,568 --> 00:48:56,928
Speaker 2: about this, and I remember leaving the session and going

951
00:48:56,968 --> 00:48:58,608
Speaker 2: and hugging my mum and just crying and saying, he

952
00:48:58,688 --> 00:49:00,408
Speaker 2: cheated on me. He cheated on me. She had no

953
00:49:00,448 --> 00:49:03,288
Speaker 2: idea about the first time when we first started dating.

954
00:49:03,368 --> 00:49:06,928
Speaker 2: I just knew that she would know that this was

955
00:49:06,968 --> 00:49:10,607
Speaker 2: a really big deal for me. And I cried day

956
00:49:11,328 --> 00:49:12,928
Speaker 2: and I remember he texted me and he said, I'm

957
00:49:12,968 --> 00:49:15,328
Speaker 2: so sorry, and I booked a flight for the next

958
00:49:15,328 --> 00:49:19,167
Speaker 2: morning back home. When I got home the next day,

959
00:49:19,928 --> 00:49:22,848
Speaker 2: he was at work all day at his weekend job

960
00:49:22,888 --> 00:49:26,527
Speaker 2: in the warehouse, and he got home really late. I

961
00:49:26,568 --> 00:49:29,888
Speaker 2: remember the moment he got home, we were fighting. He

962
00:49:30,008 --> 00:49:35,808
Speaker 2: was instantly getting aggressive. He'd moved all his belongings out

963
00:49:35,848 --> 00:49:38,968
Speaker 2: of our bedroom into the room downstairs, the spare room,

964
00:49:40,208 --> 00:49:42,888
Speaker 2: and it was like there were two separate people living

965
00:49:42,888 --> 00:49:45,127
Speaker 2: in the house when I got home. Things were really

966
00:49:45,208 --> 00:49:48,928
Speaker 2: rocky after that. The next night after he invited me

967
00:49:49,048 --> 00:49:52,488
Speaker 2: to the warehouse party where he worked now on the weekends,

968
00:49:53,088 --> 00:49:55,408
Speaker 2: and that night we had a fight because I said

969
00:49:55,448 --> 00:49:57,768
Speaker 2: I wanted to go home, and he was threatening to

970
00:49:57,808 --> 00:50:01,488
Speaker 2: drunk drive. He was screaming at me, he was punching

971
00:50:01,488 --> 00:50:05,208
Speaker 2: the steering wheel, threatening to kill himself, using a voice

972
00:50:05,208 --> 00:50:09,208
Speaker 2: that I'd never heard before, and finally I just decided

973
00:50:09,248 --> 00:50:10,968
Speaker 2: to back down and please him and say, okay, I

974
00:50:10,968 --> 00:50:13,888
Speaker 2: will continue to party on tonight. Let's go to Karayoke

975
00:50:13,968 --> 00:50:16,488
Speaker 2: if that's where we're going, And he said great and

976
00:50:16,528 --> 00:50:19,168
Speaker 2: snapped right out of it. We ordered an uber to

977
00:50:19,208 --> 00:50:21,128
Speaker 2: carryoke to catch up with his friends, and I remember

978
00:50:21,128 --> 00:50:22,568
Speaker 2: sitting in the back of the uber. He was in

979
00:50:22,608 --> 00:50:25,608
Speaker 2: the front. I was just crying and crying and crying silently,

980
00:50:26,008 --> 00:50:27,688
Speaker 2: and he turned around and he said, you'd better put

981
00:50:27,688 --> 00:50:30,848
Speaker 2: a smile on your face, and I will never forget

982
00:50:30,928 --> 00:50:33,608
Speaker 2: the tone. I'd never heard anything like that before, and

983
00:50:33,688 --> 00:50:36,008
Speaker 2: I just couldn't say anything. And I think I pretended

984
00:50:36,048 --> 00:50:38,128
Speaker 2: to smile and he said good or something like that,

985
00:50:38,168 --> 00:50:40,047
Speaker 2: and I just kept thinking, this uber driver is going

986
00:50:40,088 --> 00:50:42,608
Speaker 2: to know that he is controlling me right now. And

987
00:50:42,648 --> 00:50:44,488
Speaker 2: I remember thinking, these are red flags, these are red flags,

988
00:50:44,528 --> 00:50:46,848
Speaker 2: these are red flags. This is not his normal behavior.

989
00:50:47,568 --> 00:50:48,368
Speaker 2: It is not okay.

990
00:50:48,608 --> 00:50:53,288
Speaker 1: This rollercoaster of emotions and Ben's behavior were unpredictable and erratic.

991
00:50:53,688 --> 00:50:56,288
Speaker 1: Sometimes it was bad, and sometimes it felt like things

992
00:50:56,328 --> 00:50:57,968
Speaker 1: truly were going back to normal.

993
00:50:58,528 --> 00:51:01,488
Speaker 2: Things after that night seemed to look up. We continue

994
00:51:01,488 --> 00:51:05,088
Speaker 2: to get counseling really regularly. We're working on our communication,

995
00:51:05,208 --> 00:51:08,528
Speaker 2: We're having regular check ins, and a couple of months

996
00:51:08,568 --> 00:51:12,248
Speaker 2: after this period, he says in counseling, I want to

997
00:51:12,248 --> 00:51:15,928
Speaker 2: start trying for babies again, and I say, no, I

998
00:51:15,968 --> 00:51:19,207
Speaker 2: want to make sure we're okay. First, let's focus on us.

999
00:51:20,128 --> 00:51:23,928
Speaker 2: Our intimacy had gotten so much better since I got

1000
00:51:23,968 --> 00:51:26,368
Speaker 2: back from that month away, and since we'd been working

1001
00:51:26,408 --> 00:51:29,888
Speaker 2: through counseling and everything seemed really, really good. We were

1002
00:51:29,888 --> 00:51:31,968
Speaker 2: making a huge effort to go on dates. He took

1003
00:51:32,008 --> 00:51:34,328
Speaker 2: me to the sunflower fields, he took me to Dal'sford

1004
00:51:34,968 --> 00:51:38,688
Speaker 2: for the weekend. We had day trips and made a

1005
00:51:38,808 --> 00:51:41,527
Speaker 2: much bigger effort to just be present with each other,

1006
00:51:41,848 --> 00:51:45,408
Speaker 2: communicate through anything we were thinking and feeling, and be

1007
00:51:45,408 --> 00:51:47,488
Speaker 2: better to each other and better at each other's company.

1008
00:51:48,688 --> 00:51:52,608
Speaker 2: So as the year progresses, he says to me, Japan's

1009
00:51:52,648 --> 00:51:54,728
Speaker 2: not opening their borders yet. Why don't we use the

1010
00:51:54,768 --> 00:51:56,648
Speaker 2: money you gave me for my thirtieth to book a

1011
00:51:56,688 --> 00:52:00,248
Speaker 2: Europe trip. Let's basically relive our home honeymoon together. And

1012
00:52:00,328 --> 00:52:02,368
Speaker 2: I had fallen in love with Europe on our honeymoon

1013
00:52:02,848 --> 00:52:06,288
Speaker 2: and I was all too happy to say, absolutely, let's

1014
00:52:06,288 --> 00:52:09,328
Speaker 2: do this. So we planned this Europe trip together from

1015
00:52:09,328 --> 00:52:12,288
Speaker 2: months long trip. During the trip, we saw our favorite

1016
00:52:12,328 --> 00:52:16,648
Speaker 2: band together. We got matching tatoos in Amsterdam, and everything

1017
00:52:16,728 --> 00:52:21,968
Speaker 2: was perfect. We end up being intimate in every country

1018
00:52:22,008 --> 00:52:24,687
Speaker 2: we visit it and every time we'd make little jokes

1019
00:52:24,688 --> 00:52:27,008
Speaker 2: and say, oh, imagine if our baby's conceived here, and

1020
00:52:27,048 --> 00:52:29,528
Speaker 2: we weren't being careful. We weren't not trying at this point,

1021
00:52:30,008 --> 00:52:32,928
Speaker 2: so we were absolutely, you know, still talking about having children.

1022
00:52:33,848 --> 00:52:36,888
Speaker 2: When we get back from Europe, we have a week

1023
00:52:36,928 --> 00:52:39,368
Speaker 2: off together. We go to the movies twice, we go shopping,

1024
00:52:39,688 --> 00:52:43,288
Speaker 2: we eat out, We're just having a great week and

1025
00:52:43,968 --> 00:52:46,168
Speaker 2: we're back at work and I felt like everything was

1026
00:52:46,208 --> 00:52:49,848
Speaker 2: distant all over again. I called Ben on my lunch

1027
00:52:49,848 --> 00:52:52,568
Speaker 2: break and I say, what's going on. It's your Christmas

1028
00:52:52,648 --> 00:52:56,328
Speaker 2: party tonight. I really feel like everything's distant. I just

1029
00:52:56,368 --> 00:52:58,408
Speaker 2: want to talk before you go to the party, and

1030
00:52:58,448 --> 00:53:00,087
Speaker 2: he says, I feel like I did at the start

1031
00:53:00,128 --> 00:53:01,608
Speaker 2: of the year. I don't want to be married to

1032
00:53:01,648 --> 00:53:06,527
Speaker 2: you anymore. I instantly start hysterically crying on the phone

1033
00:53:06,608 --> 00:53:09,728
Speaker 2: and I say, well, this is just such a shock.

1034
00:53:10,168 --> 00:53:12,408
Speaker 2: We got matching tattoos a week and a half ago.

1035
00:53:13,048 --> 00:53:18,167
Speaker 2: I'm completely blindsided. I'm hysterically crying, and I just don't

1036
00:53:18,168 --> 00:53:18,768
Speaker 2: know what to say.

1037
00:53:19,048 --> 00:53:22,448
Speaker 1: Every day, the same patterns emerged. Kate never knew which

1038
00:53:22,528 --> 00:53:25,248
Speaker 1: version of Ben she would get. The hardest part was

1039
00:53:25,288 --> 00:53:27,808
Speaker 1: that she still loved him, and that love was what

1040
00:53:27,928 --> 00:53:30,808
Speaker 1: kept her trying doing everything she could to make at

1041
00:53:30,848 --> 00:53:33,848
Speaker 1: work until one day he did the unforgivable.

1042
00:53:34,408 --> 00:53:36,488
Speaker 2: In March twenty twenty three, I was house sitting for

1043
00:53:36,528 --> 00:53:39,128
Speaker 2: a friend and it was a great opportunity for me

1044
00:53:39,248 --> 00:53:41,968
Speaker 2: to give him more space, and I noticed that he

1045
00:53:42,088 --> 00:53:44,728
Speaker 2: wasn't feeding our cat, and that was it for me.

1046
00:53:45,008 --> 00:53:46,728
Speaker 2: He was saying he was there and he was feeding

1047
00:53:46,728 --> 00:53:49,087
Speaker 2: our cat. But I just knew in my gut that

1048
00:53:49,128 --> 00:53:50,968
Speaker 2: he wasn't. So I was going back to our house

1049
00:53:51,008 --> 00:53:52,687
Speaker 2: every day and checking to see if she'd been fed,

1050
00:53:52,728 --> 00:53:55,448
Speaker 2: and she hadn't. And that happened a couple of times,

1051
00:53:55,648 --> 00:53:57,648
Speaker 2: and that was when I knew, and I said, you

1052
00:53:57,768 --> 00:53:59,728
Speaker 2: need to move out. Now. I put my foot down.

1053
00:54:00,448 --> 00:54:01,848
Speaker 2: I'm going to go to Sydney and I'm going to

1054
00:54:01,848 --> 00:54:04,888
Speaker 2: get as far away from you as possible on my

1055
00:54:04,928 --> 00:54:07,128
Speaker 2: birthday weekend. You can move out in peace. I won't

1056
00:54:07,128 --> 00:54:09,728
Speaker 2: be there to watch that happen. While I'm celebrating my bat

1057
00:54:09,928 --> 00:54:13,087
Speaker 2: day that weekend I'm in Sydney. He is blowing up

1058
00:54:13,128 --> 00:54:15,888
Speaker 2: my phone. He texts me happy birthday, he sends me

1059
00:54:15,928 --> 00:54:20,168
Speaker 2: photos from the span of our relationship. He's complimenting me,

1060
00:54:20,208 --> 00:54:23,288
Speaker 2: He's telling me he misses me. He's then saying fuck

1061
00:54:23,328 --> 00:54:25,328
Speaker 2: all my friends. I don't care about them. I just

1062
00:54:25,368 --> 00:54:28,168
Speaker 2: want you, and being really aggressive towards the people that

1063
00:54:28,248 --> 00:54:31,288
Speaker 2: love and care about him. But I'm just taking this

1064
00:54:31,328 --> 00:54:33,288
Speaker 2: as a win, and I'm saying, Okay, well you need

1065
00:54:33,328 --> 00:54:36,288
Speaker 2: to prove it. Let's maybe go on a date or something.

1066
00:54:36,368 --> 00:54:38,168
Speaker 2: Let's and I'm trying to talk to him and be,

1067
00:54:38,888 --> 00:54:41,607
Speaker 2: you know, open to the fact that he wants He's

1068
00:54:41,728 --> 00:54:45,888
Speaker 2: kind of changed his mind, and I thought, okay, him

1069
00:54:45,888 --> 00:54:48,288
Speaker 2: moving out is a turning point, and he's realized this

1070
00:54:48,328 --> 00:54:51,288
Speaker 2: is not sustainable and he wants back into this relationship.

1071
00:54:51,648 --> 00:54:53,728
Speaker 2: So I'm giving him some grace, but I'm not giving

1072
00:54:53,728 --> 00:54:57,087
Speaker 2: in fully. I've still got my guard up completely. And

1073
00:54:57,168 --> 00:54:59,928
Speaker 2: he's texting me in the middle of the night saying

1074
00:54:59,928 --> 00:55:03,448
Speaker 2: that he misses me. Two days after that, I'm at

1075
00:55:03,448 --> 00:55:05,848
Speaker 2: work and my friend pulls me into a room and says, hey,

1076
00:55:06,008 --> 00:55:08,448
Speaker 2: I've just received a message from my friend who's seen

1077
00:55:08,528 --> 00:55:11,408
Speaker 2: Ben on a dating app. I look at the photos

1078
00:55:11,448 --> 00:55:16,408
Speaker 2: and I'm completely just numb. It's him, and he's using

1079
00:55:16,408 --> 00:55:21,008
Speaker 2: photos from our wedding. I'm instantly just shocked and disgusted,

1080
00:55:21,448 --> 00:55:24,528
Speaker 2: and I knew we're done. We are done. That evening,

1081
00:55:24,568 --> 00:55:26,527
Speaker 2: I call him and I say, hey, today, I was

1082
00:55:26,568 --> 00:55:29,087
Speaker 2: shown photos of you on a dating app. He says, oh,

1083
00:55:29,088 --> 00:55:31,768
Speaker 2: I made the profile two nights ago. So the first

1084
00:55:31,888 --> 00:55:34,087
Speaker 2: night when he was begging for me back, his first

1085
00:55:34,168 --> 00:55:37,167
Speaker 2: night moved out of the house. I say, well why,

1086
00:55:37,328 --> 00:55:39,808
Speaker 2: and he says, I just needed the validation, And I said,

1087
00:55:39,808 --> 00:55:41,768
Speaker 2: are you not getting that from me? That's what I'm

1088
00:55:41,808 --> 00:55:44,448
Speaker 2: here for I'm your wife, and he screamed at me

1089
00:55:44,488 --> 00:55:47,127
Speaker 2: and he said this is all your fault and turned

1090
00:55:47,128 --> 00:55:48,968
Speaker 2: it on me, and I remember he hung up on me,

1091
00:55:49,128 --> 00:55:50,527
Speaker 2: and he texted me and he said, just let me

1092
00:55:50,568 --> 00:55:52,368
Speaker 2: enjoy a night with my friends, please. I wasn't even

1093
00:55:52,368 --> 00:55:54,647
Speaker 2: going to message him. He then sends me a video

1094
00:55:54,728 --> 00:55:57,208
Speaker 2: when I don't reply to that of him deleting Tinder,

1095
00:55:57,488 --> 00:55:59,688
Speaker 2: and I reply and I say, well, the screenshot I

1096
00:55:59,728 --> 00:56:06,607
Speaker 2: was shown was of Hinge. A few weeks pass I'm

1097
00:56:06,648 --> 00:56:08,848
Speaker 2: at the lowest point I've ever been out in my life,

1098
00:56:08,888 --> 00:56:13,728
Speaker 2: I think. And when my dad passed away, I ended

1099
00:56:13,808 --> 00:56:16,248
Speaker 2: up in hospital one night. I just couldn't see a

1100
00:56:16,248 --> 00:56:19,408
Speaker 2: way out, and I thought I was having a heart attack.

1101
00:56:19,488 --> 00:56:21,128
Speaker 2: I think I was having a panic attack, and I

1102
00:56:22,168 --> 00:56:24,087
Speaker 2: was like, I'm having a heart attack, just like my dad.

1103
00:56:24,368 --> 00:56:26,527
Speaker 2: Like it's actually there's no way out of this for me,

1104
00:56:26,608 --> 00:56:28,567
Speaker 2: Like I've lost the love of my life, he's moved out,

1105
00:56:28,728 --> 00:56:31,087
Speaker 2: he's gone and begged for me back, and the same

1106
00:56:31,168 --> 00:56:33,808
Speaker 2: night has made a dating profile like we're done, this

1107
00:56:33,848 --> 00:56:37,128
Speaker 2: is done. And that was a real turning point for me.

1108
00:56:37,568 --> 00:56:39,527
Speaker 2: I ended up booking in with the GP the next

1109
00:56:39,568 --> 00:56:43,648
Speaker 2: day and going on antidepressants that day, and it was

1110
00:56:43,728 --> 00:56:47,008
Speaker 2: so clear when I went on those antidepressants that what

1111
00:56:47,208 --> 00:56:50,128
Speaker 2: I'd been going through up until that point in April

1112
00:56:50,368 --> 00:56:52,888
Speaker 2: was not sustainable. I was coming home every day and

1113
00:56:52,928 --> 00:56:55,688
Speaker 2: crying for five hours every night. Every day I'd go

1114
00:56:55,688 --> 00:56:57,488
Speaker 2: to work and I'd be a shell of myself and

1115
00:56:57,568 --> 00:57:00,328
Speaker 2: work would be my safe place, and it was just

1116
00:57:00,928 --> 00:57:03,848
Speaker 2: it was the darkest point I can ever even remember

1117
00:57:03,888 --> 00:57:06,328
Speaker 2: going through every in my life. When I went on

1118
00:57:06,328 --> 00:57:10,008
Speaker 2: the antidepressants, I became really, really numb to everything was

1119
00:57:10,048 --> 00:57:12,808
Speaker 2: happening and kind of reached a state of acceptance. I

1120
00:57:12,848 --> 00:57:14,608
Speaker 2: was getting regular counseling and therapy.

1121
00:57:14,648 --> 00:57:17,448
Speaker 1: At this point, all contact with Ben was limited to

1122
00:57:17,488 --> 00:57:21,128
Speaker 1: financial and legal conversations as they navigated their split.

1123
00:57:21,968 --> 00:57:24,888
Speaker 2: Until Ben tells me that Rex Orange County is coming

1124
00:57:24,928 --> 00:57:27,648
Speaker 2: to Australia. I know he's really special to us. The

1125
00:57:27,648 --> 00:57:30,608
Speaker 2: tickets are on sale, you might want to go. And

1126
00:57:30,648 --> 00:57:33,288
Speaker 2: then he says, let's have a session with our counselor,

1127
00:57:33,368 --> 00:57:35,808
Speaker 2: which I think is really odd and really strange. I

1128
00:57:35,888 --> 00:57:38,528
Speaker 2: ended up contacting our counselor who says, let's book in

1129
00:57:38,568 --> 00:57:41,408
Speaker 2: a session, but just with you. And when I speak

1130
00:57:41,408 --> 00:57:43,528
Speaker 2: to the counselor, the counselor says, I won't see him anymore,

1131
00:57:44,088 --> 00:57:48,088
Speaker 2: and essentially he says that Ben had tried to manipulate

1132
00:57:48,448 --> 00:57:51,768
Speaker 2: him into springing a session on me to tell me

1133
00:57:51,848 --> 00:57:54,568
Speaker 2: that he's got a new partner. I booked tickets to

1134
00:57:54,608 --> 00:57:58,528
Speaker 2: this concept and was planning on going with a friend.

1135
00:57:59,888 --> 00:58:03,368
Speaker 2: And then a couple weeks later, I reactivate Instagram and

1136
00:58:04,008 --> 00:58:08,088
Speaker 2: I can see that he has someone's initials in his bio.

1137
00:58:09,208 --> 00:58:13,968
Speaker 2: So I instantly had this feeling that it was another

1138
00:58:14,328 --> 00:58:17,608
Speaker 2: person who had followed me, as she had instantly unfollowed

1139
00:58:17,608 --> 00:58:20,208
Speaker 2: me when I reactivated my Instagram, I went on to

1140
00:58:20,368 --> 00:58:23,928
Speaker 2: her Instagram account and she had his initials in her bio.

1141
00:58:24,768 --> 00:58:27,848
Speaker 2: So they'd been dating for a few months at this point,

1142
00:58:28,088 --> 00:58:30,888
Speaker 2: and they could have been overlap. Rex Orange County comes

1143
00:58:30,928 --> 00:58:33,808
Speaker 2: along on in September twenty twenty three. I'm with my

1144
00:58:33,888 --> 00:58:35,648
Speaker 2: friend and we're in the mosh pit and I turn

1145
00:58:35,688 --> 00:58:37,888
Speaker 2: around and I see him and his new girlfriend walk in,

1146
00:58:38,408 --> 00:58:40,408
Speaker 2: and I just couldn't help myself. I walked straight up

1147
00:58:40,448 --> 00:58:42,288
Speaker 2: to them. I don't know what came over me. I'm

1148
00:58:42,328 --> 00:58:46,008
Speaker 2: usually quite shy and non confrontational, and I said, Hi,

1149
00:58:46,248 --> 00:58:50,128
Speaker 2: I'm Kate. Has Ben told you that Rex Orange County

1150
00:58:50,168 --> 00:58:52,928
Speaker 2: sung our wedding song. She looks at me and shock

1151
00:58:53,008 --> 00:58:56,808
Speaker 2: and he says she knows. And I said, you have

1152
00:58:56,848 --> 00:58:59,568
Speaker 2: some nerve bringing her here. And he said we're leaving,

1153
00:58:59,608 --> 00:59:02,568
Speaker 2: and I said, good go. He leaves. They walk up

1154
00:59:02,568 --> 00:59:04,608
Speaker 2: the stairs and they I can see them at a

1155
00:59:04,608 --> 00:59:06,608
Speaker 2: different entrance up here. My friend and I just stay

1156
00:59:06,608 --> 00:59:08,808
Speaker 2: where we are in the mosh pit down the bottom,

1157
00:59:09,168 --> 00:59:12,288
Speaker 2: and he starts gesturing at my friends and waving at her,

1158
00:59:12,808 --> 00:59:17,048
Speaker 2: doing weird gestures, and it's so strange until the first

1159
00:59:17,048 --> 00:59:19,328
Speaker 2: band comes on and the lights go out. I then

1160
00:59:19,368 --> 00:59:22,248
Speaker 2: just try and forget about him. Our wedding song comes on.

1161
00:59:22,368 --> 00:59:25,008
Speaker 2: I cried the whole time, but I just thought, I'm

1162
00:59:25,008 --> 00:59:26,848
Speaker 2: not going to let him control where I go and

1163
00:59:26,928 --> 00:59:30,288
Speaker 2: ruin these special things for me. He used to serenade

1164
00:59:30,368 --> 00:59:32,808
Speaker 2: me all of Rex's songs, and so the fact that

1165
00:59:32,848 --> 00:59:35,688
Speaker 2: he took her to Rex's concert just felt really sick.

1166
00:59:36,408 --> 00:59:38,808
Speaker 2: We end up going through a binding financial agreement and

1167
00:59:38,848 --> 00:59:41,328
Speaker 2: seeing each other to sign forms at the police station.

1168
00:59:41,408 --> 00:59:45,488
Speaker 2: In November twenty twenty three, Ben comes to the appointment

1169
00:59:45,528 --> 00:59:47,208
Speaker 2: at the police station to see the Justice of the

1170
00:59:47,208 --> 00:59:50,368
Speaker 2: peace and during this time we're making small talk and

1171
00:59:50,408 --> 00:59:53,688
Speaker 2: he admits and apologizes for taking his partner to the concert.

1172
00:59:53,968 --> 00:59:57,208
Speaker 2: He admits it was disrespectful and takes full ownership. At

1173
00:59:57,248 --> 00:59:59,168
Speaker 2: the end, he gives me a huge hug, and I

1174
00:59:59,208 --> 01:00:01,848
Speaker 2: gave him some of the old cards and love letters

1175
01:00:01,848 --> 01:00:03,768
Speaker 2: and things that we'd written each other or that I'd

1176
01:00:03,808 --> 01:00:06,168
Speaker 2: specifically written to him, and he said, I have a

1177
01:00:06,248 --> 01:00:09,208
Speaker 2: kate box at home. I'll never forget you. He gives

1178
01:00:09,208 --> 01:00:10,808
Speaker 2: me a big hug, and I think, Okay, this is great.

1179
01:00:10,808 --> 01:00:12,648
Speaker 2: We've ended on really good terms. I may never see

1180
01:00:12,688 --> 01:00:13,088
Speaker 2: him again.

1181
01:00:13,488 --> 01:00:17,088
Speaker 1: Around the time all this was going on, another X reappeared.

1182
01:00:17,528 --> 01:00:21,488
Speaker 2: Remember Jake, I go on Instagram and see that amongst

1183
01:00:21,568 --> 01:00:24,208
Speaker 2: some of my friendship group and wider circles, my ex

1184
01:00:24,568 --> 01:00:29,568
Speaker 2: situationship is being called out online by multiple women for

1185
01:00:29,728 --> 01:00:34,648
Speaker 2: instances of sexual assault and abuse. I instantly am distraught

1186
01:00:34,848 --> 01:00:38,088
Speaker 2: and all my old trauma gets brought to the surface.

1187
01:00:38,248 --> 01:00:42,368
Speaker 2: From twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, I knew that

1188
01:00:42,448 --> 01:00:44,328
Speaker 2: this day was going to come. I knew that he

1189
01:00:44,328 --> 01:00:48,368
Speaker 2: wouldn't get away with it. I knew, due to the

1190
01:00:48,408 --> 01:00:50,888
Speaker 2: amount of women he was involved with and the nature

1191
01:00:50,968 --> 01:00:54,608
Speaker 2: of his personality, that I wasn't the only one he

1192
01:00:54,768 --> 01:00:58,368
Speaker 2: had impacted, and that one day things may come out

1193
01:00:58,368 --> 01:01:03,888
Speaker 2: about him. Two of my exes exes started sharing the

1194
01:01:03,928 --> 01:01:08,408
Speaker 2: stories of other women online and I got in touch

1195
01:01:08,448 --> 01:01:11,328
Speaker 2: with them. Due to the three years on and off

1196
01:01:11,328 --> 01:01:14,648
Speaker 2: that I'd spent with him, I instantly deactivated my Instagram

1197
01:01:14,728 --> 01:01:17,728
Speaker 2: as I needed to protect my mental health, and a

1198
01:01:17,848 --> 01:01:20,488
Speaker 2: day after the story started coming out, I was sent

1199
01:01:20,648 --> 01:01:23,608
Speaker 2: an old video of Jake where he was threatening me,

1200
01:01:24,448 --> 01:01:28,848
Speaker 2: saying unspeakable things that I didn't know existed. The video

1201
01:01:28,888 --> 01:01:33,888
Speaker 2: had been filmed maybe eight years ago, and it sent

1202
01:01:33,968 --> 01:01:37,568
Speaker 2: me into a depression like I'd never experienced before. I

1203
01:01:37,648 --> 01:01:39,488
Speaker 2: was at work at the time, and I just remember

1204
01:01:39,528 --> 01:01:42,648
Speaker 2: having the panic attack of all panic attacks. I was

1205
01:01:42,728 --> 01:01:45,247
Speaker 2: on the ground. I couldn't breathe. I saw this video

1206
01:01:45,248 --> 01:01:46,968
Speaker 2: and heard the things that he'd said about me, and

1207
01:01:47,128 --> 01:01:49,408
Speaker 2: he'd said horrible things to my face, but these things

1208
01:01:49,408 --> 01:01:55,888
Speaker 2: were unspeakable and just discussing vile, threatening things. A week passed,

1209
01:01:56,008 --> 01:01:58,848
Speaker 2: and that happened to be during the same week that

1210
01:01:58,968 --> 01:02:01,728
Speaker 2: my divorce was going through court, so I needed to

1211
01:02:01,768 --> 01:02:04,008
Speaker 2: contact Ben to find out if the divorce was granted.

1212
01:02:04,328 --> 01:02:05,968
Speaker 2: He'd been the one to file and pay for it.

1213
01:02:06,008 --> 01:02:08,368
Speaker 2: I was clear on that with him, that I wasn't

1214
01:02:08,368 --> 01:02:10,288
Speaker 2: going to do that when he was the one that

1215
01:02:10,368 --> 01:02:14,528
Speaker 2: chose to leave me, and I email Ben to find

1216
01:02:14,528 --> 01:02:16,688
Speaker 2: out if a divorce had been granted. He said yes.

1217
01:02:17,448 --> 01:02:20,168
Speaker 2: A few days pass and the situation with my ex

1218
01:02:20,208 --> 01:02:25,888
Speaker 2: situationship being called out online is escalating, and I'm feeling

1219
01:02:26,008 --> 01:02:29,608
Speaker 2: like I need to share the video so others can

1220
01:02:29,648 --> 01:02:33,368
Speaker 2: hear and see what Jake is like firsthand from his

1221
01:02:33,368 --> 01:02:36,728
Speaker 2: own voice. I allow his ex to post the video

1222
01:02:36,808 --> 01:02:40,568
Speaker 2: with my permission, even though I still don't have Instagram myself,

1223
01:02:41,608 --> 01:02:43,488
Speaker 2: and I think that it will help. Even if just

1224
01:02:43,528 --> 01:02:47,008
Speaker 2: one other woman sees this video and remembers his face

1225
01:02:47,288 --> 01:02:49,128
Speaker 2: and doesn't want to go on a date with him,

1226
01:02:49,448 --> 01:02:51,368
Speaker 2: I think that that would be worth it in the end,

1227
01:02:51,888 --> 01:02:54,888
Speaker 2: So she posts a video. A week after the video

1228
01:02:55,048 --> 01:02:57,608
Speaker 2: is posted, I receive a phone call from the police

1229
01:02:57,608 --> 01:03:00,128
Speaker 2: to head down to the station as an IVO was

1230
01:03:00,168 --> 01:03:04,688
Speaker 2: waiting for me. I'm beside myself. I'm so anxious, I'm shaking.

1231
01:03:05,088 --> 01:03:06,688
Speaker 2: I don't know what to do. I was already in

1232
01:03:06,728 --> 01:03:10,928
Speaker 2: a complete state of shock and had been reliving my

1233
01:03:11,048 --> 01:03:14,928
Speaker 2: past with Jake that whole week, so I'm very on

1234
01:03:15,048 --> 01:03:17,008
Speaker 2: edge when I head to the police station. When I

1235
01:03:17,048 --> 01:03:20,328
Speaker 2: get to the police station, I'm handed the papers thinking

1236
01:03:20,448 --> 01:03:25,648
Speaker 2: it's from Jake, and the papers were from Ben. The

1237
01:03:25,688 --> 01:03:32,248
Speaker 2: IVO essentially is written incoherrently basically stating that I'm benz

1238
01:03:32,288 --> 01:03:35,328
Speaker 2: Ex's wife, that I am going to be posting on

1239
01:03:35,368 --> 01:03:38,168
Speaker 2: social media about him, that my friend has followed his

1240
01:03:39,008 --> 01:03:42,208
Speaker 2: partner on Instagram. I have no idea who this is,

1241
01:03:42,328 --> 01:03:45,608
Speaker 2: who's followed her. We have many mutuals, so I truly

1242
01:03:45,648 --> 01:03:48,248
Speaker 2: couldn't tell you who could have followed her. That he'd

1243
01:03:48,248 --> 01:03:52,488
Speaker 2: broken out in hives, that he couldn't function, that I

1244
01:03:52,528 --> 01:03:55,128
Speaker 2: have absolutely no reason to post about him, That I

1245
01:03:55,248 --> 01:03:57,968
Speaker 2: stalked him and his partner at the festival and followed

1246
01:03:57,968 --> 01:04:01,808
Speaker 2: them for hundreds of meters, That I'd blocked the entrance

1247
01:04:01,848 --> 01:04:04,488
Speaker 2: to the mosh pit when I saw them at the concert,

1248
01:04:04,648 --> 01:04:07,247
Speaker 2: which again wasn't true. I'd never moved from the center

1249
01:04:07,288 --> 01:04:10,248
Speaker 2: of the mosh pit and stopped them from walking back in.

1250
01:04:10,368 --> 01:04:14,048
Speaker 2: There was everything in the IVO I could refute and

1251
01:04:14,128 --> 01:04:18,688
Speaker 2: had witnesses for, and had evidence for. Essentially, I'm again

1252
01:04:18,808 --> 01:04:21,448
Speaker 2: beside myself, completely in shock. I don't know how to

1253
01:04:21,488 --> 01:04:23,608
Speaker 2: react to this, and I called my friend who's a

1254
01:04:23,648 --> 01:04:28,328
Speaker 2: lawyer to get some help. My lawyer ended up sending

1255
01:04:28,368 --> 01:04:32,288
Speaker 2: a letter asking for an undertaking or a withdrawal of

1256
01:04:32,328 --> 01:04:35,408
Speaker 2: the IVO, as it was spurious and wasting resources, money

1257
01:04:35,408 --> 01:04:39,528
Speaker 2: and time. The IVO was completely hearsay and it couldn't

1258
01:04:39,528 --> 01:04:42,728
Speaker 2: be reasonably associated with me. We also really made it

1259
01:04:42,728 --> 01:04:45,248
Speaker 2: clear that this is a system that's for vulnerable members

1260
01:04:45,248 --> 01:04:47,168
Speaker 2: of the community, and this was a way that he

1261
01:04:47,248 --> 01:04:47,928
Speaker 2: was controlling me.

1262
01:04:48,328 --> 01:04:51,528
Speaker 1: Kate realized Ben's actions were driven by fear and a

1263
01:04:51,608 --> 01:04:55,608
Speaker 1: design to control the narrative after that damaging video surface,

1264
01:04:56,168 --> 01:04:59,048
Speaker 1: determined not to let him dictate the outcome. She fought

1265
01:04:59,088 --> 01:05:03,408
Speaker 1: through months of legal negotiations before reluctantly accepting a one

1266
01:05:03,488 --> 01:05:07,288
Speaker 1: year court undertaking to avoid being dragged through further turmoil.

1267
01:05:07,768 --> 01:05:10,528
Speaker 2: While this was happening and he was sign up the undertaking,

1268
01:05:10,928 --> 01:05:13,288
Speaker 2: I was taken into the support office at the court

1269
01:05:13,688 --> 01:05:17,208
Speaker 2: and the support worker that normally supports the person who

1270
01:05:17,288 --> 01:05:20,608
Speaker 2: lodges the undertaking came in and said, Hey, Kate, I've

1271
01:05:20,648 --> 01:05:23,288
Speaker 2: just read your case. We have all been watching him

1272
01:05:23,328 --> 01:05:25,848
Speaker 2: and his girlfriend all day. They're in the safe room

1273
01:05:25,888 --> 01:05:28,208
Speaker 2: of the court right now. They have been giggling away

1274
01:05:28,368 --> 01:05:31,288
Speaker 2: all day. She's like, I can see right through this instantly,

1275
01:05:31,328 --> 01:05:33,328
Speaker 2: and the strong feminist in me wants you to fight

1276
01:05:33,368 --> 01:05:36,768
Speaker 2: this undertaking and fight this IVO. And I just said,

1277
01:05:37,088 --> 01:05:39,248
Speaker 2: I appreciate you so much. Thank you for saying that.

1278
01:05:39,248 --> 01:05:40,808
Speaker 2: Thank you for believing me when you haven't even heard

1279
01:05:40,848 --> 01:05:43,168
Speaker 2: it from my mouth. Thank you. I was crying. My

1280
01:05:43,248 --> 01:05:45,248
Speaker 2: mum was next to me, and she was crying. And

1281
01:05:45,288 --> 01:05:47,888
Speaker 2: they said, I had no idea he was even in

1282
01:05:47,928 --> 01:05:49,448
Speaker 2: the court I thought he'd be zooming in for it.

1283
01:05:49,488 --> 01:05:50,888
Speaker 2: I had no idea he was even in the same

1284
01:05:50,928 --> 01:05:52,728
Speaker 2: building as me. And turns out he'd been sitting there

1285
01:05:52,768 --> 01:05:55,208
Speaker 2: with his girlfriend laughing the whole morning and making a

1286
01:05:55,208 --> 01:05:57,568
Speaker 2: mockery of the system. And she was like, we have

1287
01:05:57,648 --> 01:05:59,888
Speaker 2: all been watching them and thinking, what are they even

1288
01:05:59,928 --> 01:06:03,008
Speaker 2: doing back there? It is not okay. And so she

1289
01:06:03,208 --> 01:06:05,128
Speaker 2: instantly said, I think you should fight this, and I

1290
01:06:05,208 --> 01:06:07,448
Speaker 2: just said I can't. I have no fight left in me.

1291
01:06:07,968 --> 01:06:10,368
Speaker 2: Let me sign this one year document and be out

1292
01:06:10,368 --> 01:06:12,528
Speaker 2: of here. So when I went into the courtroom, I

1293
01:06:12,568 --> 01:06:14,848
Speaker 2: was shaking head to toe. I could hear him and

1294
01:06:14,888 --> 01:06:16,728
Speaker 2: his girlfriend on the other side of the barrier. They

1295
01:06:16,728 --> 01:06:18,368
Speaker 2: were hid him from me, so I couldn't see them.

1296
01:06:18,688 --> 01:06:21,408
Speaker 2: They talked the whole time as the judge was starting.

1297
01:06:21,608 --> 01:06:25,008
Speaker 2: I guess the hearing, the judge basically said I'm not

1298
01:06:25,048 --> 01:06:26,848
Speaker 2: to do the things on the undertaking. I can't go

1299
01:06:26,888 --> 01:06:28,848
Speaker 2: within one hundred meters of his work. I think we

1300
01:06:29,008 --> 01:06:31,648
Speaker 2: edited that to one hundred from two hundred because he

1301
01:06:31,688 --> 01:06:36,808
Speaker 2: works three hundred meters from me, and essentially I'm not

1302
01:06:36,848 --> 01:06:39,208
Speaker 2: allowed to contact him do all those things, which I

1303
01:06:39,248 --> 01:06:43,448
Speaker 2: had no intention of doing anyway. It was honestly just

1304
01:06:43,528 --> 01:06:46,688
Speaker 2: heartbreaking because I've never ever had a situation like that

1305
01:06:46,728 --> 01:06:49,008
Speaker 2: where I've had to deal with the courts, deal with

1306
01:06:49,048 --> 01:06:51,728
Speaker 2: police anything at all, and he was just using it

1307
01:06:51,768 --> 01:06:54,128
Speaker 2: as a way to control me and control the narrative.

1308
01:06:54,448 --> 01:06:56,568
Speaker 2: I leave the court with my mum and decide, Okay,

1309
01:06:56,568 --> 01:06:57,928
Speaker 2: I'm going to move on with my life. I'm going

1310
01:06:57,968 --> 01:06:59,448
Speaker 2: to take my long service leave and I'm going to

1311
01:06:59,488 --> 01:07:01,328
Speaker 2: book the trip of a lifetime and I'll go to

1312
01:07:01,368 --> 01:07:05,328
Speaker 2: Europe for nine weeks. It was truly the most life changing,

1313
01:07:05,488 --> 01:07:10,168
Speaker 2: freeing experience, and everything about that trip was perfect. Visited

1314
01:07:10,208 --> 01:07:12,488
Speaker 2: some of the places we went on our honeymoon, and

1315
01:07:12,608 --> 01:07:15,008
Speaker 2: rewrote those memories. I reclaimed those memories. I went back

1316
01:07:15,008 --> 01:07:16,928
Speaker 2: to the same tatoo artists in Amsterdam and got my

1317
01:07:16,968 --> 01:07:20,168
Speaker 2: tatoo changed so it no longer matches his. I just

1318
01:07:20,208 --> 01:07:22,848
Speaker 2: did things for me and for me alone, and it

1319
01:07:22,968 --> 01:07:25,688
Speaker 2: was the best experience of my life. I was able

1320
01:07:25,728 --> 01:07:27,368
Speaker 2: to be alone with my thoughts. I was able to

1321
01:07:27,408 --> 01:07:29,208
Speaker 2: think through a lot of the trauma that I'd been

1322
01:07:29,248 --> 01:07:31,328
Speaker 2: through with him. I was able to create so many

1323
01:07:31,368 --> 01:07:33,968
Speaker 2: new memories. I was able to really reflect on some

1324
01:07:34,008 --> 01:07:37,208
Speaker 2: of those red flags, and when I got back, I

1325
01:07:37,328 --> 01:07:39,608
Speaker 2: was like a whole new person. I'd found my spark again,

1326
01:07:39,688 --> 01:07:42,368
Speaker 2: my happiness again. I'd even been open to the idea

1327
01:07:42,368 --> 01:07:44,208
Speaker 2: of dating again and met a couple of guys while

1328
01:07:44,208 --> 01:07:47,168
Speaker 2: over there. While nothing romantic happened, it was just great

1329
01:07:47,208 --> 01:07:49,568
Speaker 2: to put myself out there again. And everyone had said

1330
01:07:49,568 --> 01:07:51,088
Speaker 2: to me in those last couple of years, I think

1331
01:07:51,088 --> 01:07:52,848
Speaker 2: you should start dating. It'll help you get over him,

1332
01:07:52,888 --> 01:07:54,168
Speaker 2: because I was just holding on to him and I

1333
01:07:54,208 --> 01:07:56,928
Speaker 2: was always thinking about him and loving him. But I

1334
01:07:57,008 --> 01:08:00,248
Speaker 2: really on that trip accepted I loved a version of

1335
01:08:00,288 --> 01:08:03,208
Speaker 2: him that no longer existed, and I really needed to

1336
01:08:03,208 --> 01:08:04,608
Speaker 2: come to terms with that, and I think I did

1337
01:08:04,608 --> 01:08:06,568
Speaker 2: on that trip, and it was just this turning point

1338
01:08:06,728 --> 01:08:09,728
Speaker 2: in my life. When I got back, not long enough,

1339
01:08:09,928 --> 01:08:11,688
Speaker 2: I found out that he'd gotten engaged and had been

1340
01:08:11,768 --> 01:08:13,928
Speaker 2: in Europe at the same time as me. Thank goodness,

1341
01:08:13,968 --> 01:08:15,568
Speaker 2: I didn't know while I was there on my trip.

1342
01:08:16,128 --> 01:08:18,367
Speaker 2: Recently I heard he said to my friend that he's

1343
01:08:18,407 --> 01:08:20,848
Speaker 2: been doing so well since his big reset two years ago.

1344
01:08:21,287 --> 01:08:23,807
Speaker 2: And it's true. He reset his life, he pressed reset.

1345
01:08:23,968 --> 01:08:25,648
Speaker 2: He has only a couple of the same friends that

1346
01:08:25,688 --> 01:08:27,768
Speaker 2: he did when him and I were together. I never

1347
01:08:27,768 --> 01:08:29,728
Speaker 2: asked anyone to two sides. He did it for them.

1348
01:08:29,808 --> 01:08:33,407
Speaker 2: He blocked everyone. Everyone is blocked. My best friend's dog

1349
01:08:33,648 --> 01:08:37,728
Speaker 2: is blocked on Instagram. It is so crazy to think

1350
01:08:37,808 --> 01:08:42,088
Speaker 2: that this person has taken such lengths to restart their

1351
01:08:42,088 --> 01:08:45,128
Speaker 2: whole life. My whole family was devastated. My mom was devastated,

1352
01:08:45,328 --> 01:08:48,728
Speaker 2: my sister, my niece, everyone was just completely heartbroken and

1353
01:08:48,768 --> 01:08:51,327
Speaker 2: never got a chance to have a goodbye, never got closure.

1354
01:08:51,408 --> 01:08:53,648
Speaker 2: It was just one day. He blocked everyone and never

1355
01:08:53,688 --> 01:08:57,448
Speaker 2: spoke to anyone again. And so now I'm thirty and

1356
01:08:57,528 --> 01:09:01,008
Speaker 2: I'm a divorce a and I'm really leaning into that stereotype.

1357
01:09:01,048 --> 01:09:04,527
Speaker 2: It's very chic, I think. After Europe, I've just started

1358
01:09:04,568 --> 01:09:07,848
Speaker 2: dating again, and I've actually had some of the funnest

1359
01:09:07,928 --> 01:09:10,447
Speaker 2: dates of my life and have met some really great,

1360
01:09:10,888 --> 01:09:13,928
Speaker 2: awesome people through the dating I thought going into it,

1361
01:09:13,928 --> 01:09:15,287
Speaker 2: I was so anxious. It took me two and a

1362
01:09:15,288 --> 01:09:17,608
Speaker 2: half years to be able to start dating again after him,

1363
01:09:18,048 --> 01:09:20,648
Speaker 2: and he'd already gotten engaged in that time, and I

1364
01:09:20,688 --> 01:09:22,848
Speaker 2: hadn't even kissed another man or held another man's hand,

1365
01:09:23,448 --> 01:09:25,888
Speaker 2: and he'd already gotten engaged. And I just thought I

1366
01:09:25,928 --> 01:09:29,367
Speaker 2: was the most boring, unlovable, unattractive person. And now I

1367
01:09:29,448 --> 01:09:32,407
Speaker 2: just I feel like I've learned how to flirt. I'm

1368
01:09:32,448 --> 01:09:35,968
Speaker 2: actually enjoying the dating experience. I feel like I've found

1369
01:09:36,008 --> 01:09:39,048
Speaker 2: my confidence and sexuality again. All the men I've been

1370
01:09:39,088 --> 01:09:41,247
Speaker 2: on dates with have told me you are so much fun, Kate,

1371
01:09:41,288 --> 01:09:44,048
Speaker 2: you are so much fun organically, And it's actually been

1372
01:09:44,247 --> 01:09:49,048
Speaker 2: so uplifting and so enlightening to hear that about myself

1373
01:09:49,168 --> 01:09:51,287
Speaker 2: when he really made me feel like I was so

1374
01:09:51,328 --> 01:09:54,048
Speaker 2: boring and so worthless. I don't know if I'll ever

1375
01:09:54,088 --> 01:09:58,327
Speaker 2: trust anyone again. I definitely have trust issues, and I

1376
01:09:58,328 --> 01:09:59,968
Speaker 2: think about how my dad will never get to walk

1377
01:10:00,008 --> 01:10:03,008
Speaker 2: me down the aisle again. But I've learned so much

1378
01:10:03,128 --> 01:10:06,808
Speaker 2: from the experience, and I'm just having so much fun

1379
01:10:06,888 --> 01:10:10,728
Speaker 2: now restarting my own life with the same friends, the

1380
01:10:10,768 --> 01:10:13,008
Speaker 2: same house, the same cat, and yeah, it's just been

1381
01:10:13,128 --> 01:10:15,728
Speaker 2: such a joy finding myself again and finding my spark again.

1382
01:10:15,928 --> 01:10:17,928
Speaker 2: I truly feel like I'm the happiest I've ever been

1383
01:10:18,008 --> 01:10:20,648
Speaker 2: right now, and just I feel like I'm succeeding in

1384
01:10:20,688 --> 01:10:23,968
Speaker 2: every aspect of my life except for romance. But that's okay.

1385
01:10:24,008 --> 01:10:26,407
Speaker 2: It's just casual and no pressure up right now. I'm

1386
01:10:26,408 --> 01:10:28,648
Speaker 2: just having so much fun. So I do think everything

1387
01:10:28,688 --> 01:10:29,407
Speaker 2: happens for a reason.

1388
01:10:46,688 --> 01:10:49,607
Speaker 1: Everyone has an ex is a Minti Media production, proudly

1389
01:10:49,648 --> 01:10:52,088
Speaker 1: part of the Mum and mea network. This episode is

1390
01:10:52,128 --> 01:10:55,327
Speaker 1: written and produced by Linda Scott. Interview conducted and the

1391
01:10:55,368 --> 01:10:58,247
Speaker 1: episode narrated by me Georgia Love. If you have a

1392
01:10:58,288 --> 01:11:01,528
Speaker 1: story you'd like to share, email podcast at momamea dot

1393
01:11:01,568 --> 01:11:04,247
Speaker 1: com dot au. You can support us by following the

1394
01:11:04,288 --> 01:11:06,768
Speaker 1: show and your favorite podcast up and leaving a five

1395
01:11:06,808 --> 01:11:11,128
Speaker 1: star review. We'll see you for the next episode.

1396
01:11:11,608 --> 01:11:11,888
Speaker 2: Thinks