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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. Mama Mia acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded on.

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Speaker 2: You know how we are preparing for our live show

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Speaker 2: in May. Yes, we are, okay, And I try and

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Speaker 2: get out of certain parts of it that I don't enjoy,

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Speaker 2: which has for some reason gone from zero to one

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Speaker 2: hundred very very fast.

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Speaker 1: The rehearsals and the lyrics and the measurement.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I've been trying to tell you that I

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Speaker 2: don't like to dance. Wasn't on my job application when

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Speaker 2: I came here. I shouldn't have to. Anyway, They've got

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Speaker 2: this new thing on Ancestry DNA where they have your traits.

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Speaker 2: They have like forty traits, right, so think like morning

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Speaker 2: on night person, do you require a lot of caffeine?

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Speaker 2: Do mosquito mosquitos buy you all that stuff because.

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Speaker 1: Mosquitoes don't bite her bite out of me?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Not only does it tell you what your traits are,

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Speaker 2: but what parent you got them from?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: This is how amazing it is. Anyway, I was going

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Speaker 2: through and apparently I do not possis s the DNA

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Speaker 2: to learn choreography. It said there's a there's.

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Speaker 3: Actually a spit in a stick to find that out.

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Speaker 2: I feel like this is mine. You know how you

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Speaker 2: use your adhd as a get our jail? This is mine, Mia.

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Speaker 1: I feel a sick note coming on from Jesse Stephens.

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Speaker 1: My doctor precludes me from having anticipates it.

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Speaker 2: Said, I can't learn choreography. Totally different, DNA marker. I

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Speaker 2: don't like dancing, yeah, said it said, you don't like dancing?

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Speaker 1: Dancing? What about when you're drunk?

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Speaker 2: Yeh, when I've had a few drinks actually dancing. But

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Speaker 2: I don't want to dance right now?

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Speaker 4: Did you?

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Speaker 1: She did? I saw her doing that. Hello and welcome

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Speaker 1: to Mama Mia out loud and to our Friday show

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Speaker 1: where we take a break from the news cycle because

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Speaker 1: holy hell is scary out there. Deep breaths, because today

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Speaker 1: it's Friday, it's the thirty first of January, and we

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Speaker 1: are talking about other stuff. I am Holly wayIn right,

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Speaker 1: I'm mea.

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Speaker 2: Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens.

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Speaker 1: And on today's show, there's a new item of clothing

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Speaker 1: that the finger wagging trendsetters of gen Z have assigned

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Speaker 1: just TikTok's sartorial binfire and we think we know why. Also,

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Speaker 1: a viral essay has reignited a debate about whether there's

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Speaker 1: any such thing as an a for effort recommendations which

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Speaker 1: include a meal to eat while you're wearing your weighted vest,

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Speaker 1: a movie that you'll sop through on a TV show

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Speaker 1: about bitches, and our very best and worst of the week.

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Speaker 1: But first, Mia Friedman, we're.

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Speaker 3: Big fans of pettiness here on Mama Mer out loud

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Speaker 3: or maybe that's just me, but no, I think Jesse,

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Speaker 3: you're very petty.

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Speaker 1: You like some pettiness?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I do like a little bit of pettiness.

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Speaker 3: I think it's an underrated personality trait. Personally, does being

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Speaker 3: petty make you the bigger person? No, it makes you

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Speaker 3: the smaller one, and sometimes that's okay. I'm excited to

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Speaker 3: report that we've discovered a new form of petty behavior

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Speaker 3: that's even more petty than the regular kind. It's more subtle,

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Speaker 3: it's smaller, and it's easy to miss, but it can

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Speaker 3: still be deeply satisfying.

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Speaker 1: In case you missed.

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Speaker 3: It, we learned about it via a viral tweet this

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Speaker 3: week from a woman called bex Luthor, who wrote, there's

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Speaker 3: someone in our team who behaves horribly to me, and

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Speaker 3: whenever I have to type his name, I've taken to

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Speaker 3: using a slightly smaller font.

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Speaker 1: Size than for everyone else's. I love that. I love it.

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Speaker 1: Micro pettiness is pettiness via.

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Speaker 2: Stealth, Yes, And what I love about it is that

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Speaker 2: it is a level of petty that makes the other

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Speaker 2: person feel crazy. Because if I said to you, guys

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Speaker 2: really weird. But every time Mia sends me an email,

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Speaker 2: I swear she puts my name a little bit smaller,

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Speaker 2: people would ye paranoid. Yeah, it would make you question

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Speaker 2: your grasp on reality. But that means the person's really

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Speaker 2: getting to you. And I love that.

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Speaker 3: We have asked out loud as if they do any

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Speaker 3: acts of micro pettiness, maybe in the workplace or in

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Speaker 3: their life generally, Jesse, you've got one.

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Speaker 2: One out Louder said that when someone in her family

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Speaker 2: is really pissing her off, she'll go and sit in

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Speaker 2: their usual seat, Like, say, there's a head of the

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Speaker 2: table that someone normally sits in, so it puts everyone

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Speaker 2: a little off. Kiltop sag.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. One of the outlauders said, I tell my best

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Speaker 1: friend if her boyfriend is being mean to her she

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Speaker 1: should just take small things from his house, nothing important,

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Speaker 1: just inconvenient, like the base of his phone charge and

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Speaker 1: leave the cord. Just take the plug, one of the

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Speaker 1: stove dials, only one, the little spitty thing under the

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Speaker 1: plate in the microwave, so it won't yes one shoe,

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Speaker 1: but leave the other. That's great, that falls into the hole. Like,

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Speaker 1: am I going crazy? Yeah? I love that.

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Speaker 3: I've got some examples from out louders of admin pettiness.

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Speaker 3: One person says, I'll stop using exclamation marks when I

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Speaker 3: talk to this person over email or slack.

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Speaker 2: It makes me feel like I'm being Yeah, that is

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Speaker 2: my peak. Rude is when you get proper punctuality.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Someone else said that people often get her name

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Speaker 3: wrong in emails, so she does the same back, calling

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Speaker 3: them by their last name or spell their name wrong.

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Speaker 3: Instead of signing off every email with many thanks, they

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Speaker 3: just sign off their email with thanks.

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Speaker 2: I realize that I have been guilty of micro pettiness

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Speaker 2: in the last twenty four hours. I do this often,

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Speaker 2: which is when I get up in the middle of

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Speaker 2: the night with our baby, which has been happening a

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Speaker 2: bit lately. I will send my husband a text message

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Speaker 2: about something that's not very ard. But yesterday I did

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Speaker 2: it at four fifteen. I went, we need milk, and

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Speaker 2: I just it's like a marker of just going I'm awake.

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Speaker 1: Just so you know, just so you know. Do you

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Speaker 1: know what I used to do?

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Speaker 3: Every time I was annoyed with my husband, I'd take

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Speaker 3: off my wedding ring.

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Speaker 2: That's not my friend, just petty.

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Speaker 1: He never noticed. I wish I was more of an

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Speaker 1: evil genius. Maybe I'm going to try and develop that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm not genius enough.

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Speaker 5: Hi, I'm married, David. I want to tell you about

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Speaker 5: a new store I'm opening called lat Larry. Why am

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Speaker 5: I getting into the coffee game? Because I went to

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Speaker 5: this coffee shop next door and the guy was such

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Speaker 5: a jerk that I felt like I had to do something.

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Speaker 1: You know what.

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Speaker 5: I got me a little Spots store.

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Speaker 2: As the fashion correspondent on this show, I've come across

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Speaker 2: some urgent news. I read an article this week on

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Speaker 2: Muma Maya that told me, in no uncertain terms, that

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Speaker 2: I a millennial. Must bury yet another of my beloved staples.

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Speaker 2: There was the eyeliner. I remember they came from my eyeliner.

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Speaker 1: Oh your winged eyeliner.

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Speaker 2: Yep. Then they came from my skinny jeans. They came

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Speaker 2: for my socks. Now I've got a bide part yep,

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Speaker 2: visible socks, yeah, yep, yep, yep. And now I've got

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Speaker 2: to wear the long ones. Now apparently we are doing

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Speaker 2: bags wrong. So Nicola Dolf, who's the head of style

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Speaker 2: at the Iconic, has declared the cross body bag done. Interestingly,

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Speaker 2: you know who I see wear a cross body bag

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Speaker 2: more than anyone else is this lady who thinks she's

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Speaker 2: a fashion icon over.

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Speaker 1: Here, although she wears like a cross phone strap thing

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Speaker 1: a lot.

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Speaker 3: I wear everything cross and it's for reasons of feminism

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Speaker 3: and also disorganization, because I tend to lose things.

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Speaker 1: Yes, right, keeps your hands free.

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Speaker 2: Gen Z's in the office were asked how they felt

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Speaker 2: about the cross body bag and if they were surprised

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Speaker 2: by this news item, and here's what they said. Cross

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Speaker 2: body bags are very millennial coded. Gen Z's are all

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Speaker 2: about under the shoulder bag, big or small. Another said,

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Speaker 2: it's not so much that the cross body bag is bad,

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Speaker 2: it's more so you can spot a millennial out in

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Speaker 2: the crowd with it. It's a millennial identifier.

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Speaker 3: See gen x is are stoked because if someone thinks

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Speaker 3: we're a millennial, that's a compliment. Thrilled. People who get

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Speaker 3: really upset about these pronouncements from Gen Zed are millennials. Yes,

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Speaker 3: how are you feeling? You don't wear a lot of

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Speaker 3: cross body bags. You still wear like a backpack like

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Speaker 3: Dora the Explorer.

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Speaker 2: I was going to ask, how are we feeling about backpacks?

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Speaker 2: They're in, They're still in, right, justipractice videos love a backpack.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, when you need to grab something, No, I do

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Speaker 1: struggle with that because you have to take it off,

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Speaker 1: put it down, pick it up, put it back on again.

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Speaker 3: The reason I also like cross body bags, apart from

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Speaker 3: having your hands free, is that it also can give

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Speaker 3: a bit of color. It's like something going across your body.

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Speaker 1: I thought, if you.

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Speaker 2: Are a big busted woman, then the cross body bag

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Speaker 2: has never worked.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.

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Speaker 2: It's like a seat belt. It's just it doesn't It

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Speaker 2: just sits between, it kind of emphasizes.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes.

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Speaker 3: See, sometimes I find that it cuts because I am

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Speaker 3: now a big bustard woman. Sometimes I find that it cuts.

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Speaker 3: If I feel like I've got pillow bust, it cuts

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Speaker 3: it in half. Dagally, I actually think it can be

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Speaker 3: quite complimentary. I have a theory about why jen z

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Speaker 3: are so obsessed with telling you millennials, millennials that you're old.

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Speaker 3: And the difference between now and say, when we were

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Speaker 3: in our teens or twenties, is that now pretty much

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Speaker 3: everybody dresses the same. Like there are three generations of

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Speaker 3: my family women who shop at Uniclo, my mother, me,

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Speaker 3: my daughter. We're all buy the same kinds of items.

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Speaker 2: Your mother and I wear the same shoes, tevas, Yes,

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Speaker 2: we love a Tevah do love a teva?

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Speaker 1: Exactly.

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Speaker 3: My father and my son were the same kind of runners,

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Speaker 3: so that was very different. Like if I think about

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Speaker 3: my grandmother growing up and my grandfather, they didn't even

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Speaker 3: wear jeans.

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Speaker 1: So over the last couple of.

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Speaker 3: Generations, there's been this blurring of you know, everyone chops

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Speaker 3: at cotton On, everybody shops at Zara, whether it's a

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Speaker 3: small label, I'm using those because there are labels that

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Speaker 3: everybody's heard of. It's become very democratized. Why do you

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Speaker 3: think that is because we don't want to look old.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think there's greater existential angst about getting old than

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Speaker 2: ever before.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think you've got four generations who are

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Speaker 3: essentially the broad constructs of it addressing the same. Like

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Speaker 3: they could be wearing sambas, they could be wearing jeans,

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Speaker 3: and they could be wearing a graphic T shirt right,

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Speaker 3: and they might wear it all in their own way,

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Speaker 3: but they could all be wearing essentially the same. So

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Speaker 3: what gen z's have to do because they don't want

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Speaker 3: to look like their parents or their grandparents or their

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Speaker 3: older millennial siblings, they have to pick on very small

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Speaker 3: subtle aspects of it, specific aspects, and you know, demonize

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Speaker 3: those and.

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Speaker 1: Say they're the coders.

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Speaker 3: So it's the socks, it's the bags. It's not like genes,

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Speaker 3: it's the type of gen do.

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Speaker 2: You think, Because I'm not convinced when I think about

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Speaker 2: growing up or whatever, we've always laid shit on people

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Speaker 2: older than us. That's not entirely new. Like I have

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Speaker 2: been giving my mum shit about what she wears since

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Speaker 2: I could speak. I wonder if the difference is that

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Speaker 2: we used to bitch in private and now we bitch

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Speaker 2: on TikTok, Like is it that now we're just so

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Speaker 2: open about Oh this makes you look cold, this makes

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Speaker 2: you look cold?

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Speaker 1: Well? You also now you get to watch the reaction. See,

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Speaker 1: millennials are in this very particular moment of realizing they're

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Speaker 1: not the young ones anymore, and that's a very painful

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Speaker 1: space to be because you go through in this relatively

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Speaker 1: short time, oh I'm the young one at work to like,

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Speaker 1: oh I'm not more, and it's jarring and you're trying

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Speaker 1: to figure it out. And now when people mock your

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Speaker 1: side part or your skinny jeans, because I think me

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Speaker 1: is right, it's all about the micro although let me

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Speaker 1: tell you me. If I walked in here dressed in

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Speaker 1: the clothes that my fifteen year old daughter was, oh.

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Speaker 4: My god, you people would throw me out onto the street,

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Speaker 4: like giant white leg jeans.

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Speaker 1: And teeny tiny crop tops. My god, can you imagine.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, that aside the little markers of it, they

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Speaker 1: see how upset you get. People get furious about this.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean I can't wear my skinny jeans?

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Speaker 1: What do you mean my socks aren't cool? And they

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Speaker 1: get so upset. And that's fun for the young people

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Speaker 1: to see the old people getting upset about stuff, Whereas

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Speaker 1: you used to not see it so much, but now

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Speaker 1: it's like hilarious watching us get upset about sock.

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Speaker 3: I think the problem is we're just too cool. Like

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Speaker 3: mothers and daughters go and get tattoos together.

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Speaker 1: That's what I did. It's this is what everyone's doing.

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Speaker 1: It's not darling.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of people, like young people have always

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Speaker 3: wanted to separate themselves from older people.

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Speaker 1: We've never resisted aging more.

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Speaker 3: And also old things have become cool, like you know,

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Speaker 3: older people can wear sexy things and wear crop tops

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Speaker 3: if they want to, although I will judge them for it.

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Speaker 1: And younger people want.

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Speaker 3: To wear daggy old man shoes or old woman shoes

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Speaker 3: like you do.

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Speaker 1: And so it's like norm core. It's all blurred.

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Speaker 2: In the article on Mum and May, out Fran said,

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Speaker 2: gen Z haven't lived through enough to understand all the

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Speaker 2: benefits of a cross body bag. And I think that

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Speaker 2: that's very true. It's like maybe we just have the wisdom.

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Speaker 2: We have the wisdom of knowing that certain trends.

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Speaker 3: Also, gen Z, you don't have any responsibility.

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Speaker 2: No, you just can said I don't use a bag.

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Speaker 1: You can just.

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Speaker 3: Punching bag under your arm because you never have to

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Speaker 3: lift your arm if you don't want to.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And because they don't have to put their phone

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Speaker 2: in their bag because they've never put their phone down.

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Speaker 2: It's just attached to their point.

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Speaker 3: We've got a funny ven diagram in our house because

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Speaker 3: you know, my daughter, her girlfriend, my son, who's sixteen.

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Speaker 3: My daughter's girlfriend has this ven diagreen where she's in

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Speaker 3: the middle. She shares clothes with me, she shares clothes

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Speaker 3: with Coco, she shares clothes with Remy, And even though Coco,

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Speaker 3: Remy and I don't dress at all the same, we all.

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Speaker 1: Share clothes with Jack.

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Speaker 2: She's a hybrid.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you tried really really hard, you worked super duper hard.

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Speaker 1: You didn't succeed, In fact, you failed. Should you be

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Speaker 1: commended for effort over result? This is a familiar debate

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Speaker 1: kicked off again by an essay by Adam Grant, who's

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Speaker 1: one of the most prestigious and popular organizational psychologists of

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Speaker 1: our time. We love organizational psychologists, don't we, because they

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Speaker 1: know things, but they also make us more productive. He's

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Speaker 1: the loveliest guy just to name dropped us quickly. Everyone

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Speaker 1: loves that.

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Speaker 3: I interviewed him for No Filter a few years ago,

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Speaker 3: and he's amazing. He also co wrote Cheryl Sandberg's book

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Speaker 3: that we love, Option B about dealing with grief. He's

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Speaker 3: like the cool internet psychologist.

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Speaker 1: And he also teaches university at the prestigious Warden School

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Speaker 1: in the US, and he wrote an essay called No,

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Speaker 1: you Don't get an A for effort at the end

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Speaker 1: of last year about how he's noticed that his students

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Speaker 1: are now frequently presenting him with their marks and complaining

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Speaker 1: that they should have been higher because they tried really hard.

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Speaker 1: He wrote, recently, at the end of a week long

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Speaker 1: course with the light workload, multiple students had a new complaint.

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Speaker 1: My grade doesn't reflect the effort I put into this course.

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Speaker 1: High marks are for excellence, he writes, not grit. In

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Speaker 1: the past, students understood that hard work was not sufficient

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Speaker 1: and a required great work. And yet today many students

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Speaker 1: expect to be rewarded for the quantity of their effort

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Speaker 1: rather than the quality of their knowledge. Now, he goes

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Speaker 1: on to explain that this isn't their fault. The young

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Speaker 1: people I guess who are coming to him and talking

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Speaker 1: about this. He says, we've had a shift that was

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Speaker 1: made in educational work ago, which ended up entering the

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Speaker 1: psyche of the mainstream that acknowledged that rewarding effort cultivates

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Speaker 1: a strong work ethic in people and often reinforces learning.

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Speaker 1: So it's a good thing to enforce that effort is

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Speaker 1: a really good thing. It makes people want to work hard.

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Speaker 1: But he argues that we might have taken it too far,

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Speaker 1: not just at school or at UNI or on whatever

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Speaker 1: course we might be taking, but in the workplace and

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Speaker 1: even in relationships. Jesse, are you an a for effort person?

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Speaker 2: This made me really think because the respect we have

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Speaker 2: for effort I broadly agree with. I don't think this

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Speaker 2: is the same as like a participation ribbon, giving everyone

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Speaker 2: a participation ribbon. It's different because this is saying it's

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Speaker 2: about growth, mindset and understanding that it's not fixed. It's

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Speaker 2: not you're smart, you're not. You're good at netball, you're not.

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Speaker 2: It's saying, if you try, it's something you'll get better,

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Speaker 2: which is true. I love that, and I think that

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Speaker 2: is how we should teach kids.

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Speaker 3: Now. That's encouraging, Yeah, exactly, kind of demoralize.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it's not rewarding you just for showing up. It's

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Speaker 1: rewarding you for showing up and they're putting in.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you had to decide if you're hiring

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Speaker 2: someone for a job, I reckon you would go the

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Speaker 2: hard worker over the person with natural ability any day.

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Speaker 2: So conscientiousness in terms of like the beat five, I

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Speaker 2: think the big five personality traits that you look at

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Speaker 2: like there's openness, as neuroticism or that conscientiousness, those people

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Speaker 2: that work hard. And I remember this from school. There

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Speaker 2: were people that worked hard, and then there were people

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Speaker 2: that didn't even study and would get really really good marks. Right,

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Speaker 2: I can look at it and see who's more successful,

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Speaker 2: and it was the people who put their head down

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Speaker 2: and developed that work ethic succeeded. And I think that

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Speaker 2: grit and resilience are really important qualities, and you generally

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Speaker 2: get better at things when you have a good work ethic.

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Speaker 2: In saying that, what this made me think about was

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Speaker 2: how you can work really hard ineffectively. So there have

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Speaker 2: been periods of my life where I know I've done this.

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Speaker 2: In fact, the university exam really resonated. I turned up

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Speaker 2: to university, I worked harder than I've ever worked, and

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Speaker 2: I got about sixty in my essays. I just wasn't

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Speaker 2: doing the work effectively. I was applying this other strategy

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Speaker 2: that I'd always used to this new thing and failing

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Speaker 2: at it and.

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Speaker 1: The day I hadn't been in meta yet. You couldn't cheat.

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Speaker 2: Putting your hand up and going. But I tried really

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Speaker 2: hard on that isn't the point, and that's it's.

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Speaker 3: An honorable So are you saying it's an honorable character trait?

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Speaker 3: But it doesn't necessarily assure you anything.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and more honorable, which is what Adam Grant says,

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Speaker 2: is to put your hand up and go to your

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Speaker 2: lecture or whatever. I tried really hard in this. What

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Speaker 2: am I missing?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 2: What can I do that's better? And it reminded me

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Speaker 2: of do you remember this story? Blew my mind. At

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Speaker 2: the Olympics, Cam McAvoy the fifty meter Australian gold medalist swimmer. Right,

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Speaker 2: he was a first Australian man ever to win the

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Speaker 2: fifty meter freestyle. I think it was his late thirties, right,

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Speaker 2: like he was older than most.

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Speaker 1: Happened at the last one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the last Olympics and he had been

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Speaker 2: training for years, couldn't win it. At the beginning of

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Speaker 2: his career, he would do seventy kilometers a week swimming

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Speaker 2: when he trained for this Olympics, he did three kilometers

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Speaker 2: a week and he just went, I'm going to change

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Speaker 2: how I do it, and I'm going to train in

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Speaker 2: a twenty five meter pool. And he won the gold medal.

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Speaker 2: And I think you know how they say insanity. The

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Speaker 2: definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting

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Speaker 2: different results. It's like sometimes sitting down and this is

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Speaker 2: what Adam Grant's all about, and going and putting in

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Speaker 2: all this effort. It's not paying off, then your effort

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Speaker 2: is misguided. It's misdirected. There must be a better way

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Speaker 2: to do it, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you can see how it's happened because

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Speaker 3: it did start out in parenting. It's funny that when

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Speaker 3: we were talking about this earlier today, Holly and I

395
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Speaker 3: who when your kids get to a certain age, you

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Speaker 3: start getting reports. And in our kids' school reports were

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Speaker 3: always interested in the effort and the comments more than

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Speaker 3: the actual marks.

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Speaker 1: I tell my kids, and I'm sure that having read

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Speaker 1: this now I should not. I always say that's the

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Speaker 1: mark I care about the most is the effort.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: The only trouble is in their final exams, there's no

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Speaker 3: little brackets for how hard they try.

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Speaker 2: If you ever, like me to see a cardiologist, you

406
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Speaker 2: don't want the one who tried the hardest, do you, No,

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Speaker 2: I just want the one who's good.

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Speaker 3: And then when you get into the workforce, the person

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Speaker 3: who prepared the hardest and for the job interview doesn't

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Speaker 3: necessarily get the job. So I'm torn about this, but

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Speaker 3: I find that I have it in everything that I

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Speaker 3: do as a parent, because it's all about good trying,

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Speaker 3: good waiting, good thinking, good sharing. So we're very focused

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Speaker 3: on effort and intention. But I have noticed this at

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Speaker 3: work as well. I've been a boss for a lot

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Speaker 3: of years now, about thirty, and I've noticed over the

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Speaker 3: last maybe ten years there's a lot of sometimes indignant

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Speaker 3: insistence on output as the most important thing versus outcome.

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Speaker 3: We talk about this in our business a lot, and

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Speaker 3: so to many others, because people will often say I

421
00:20:09,782 --> 00:20:12,661
Speaker 3: tried really hard, we worked really hard, we put a

422
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Speaker 3: lot of time into this project, and it's like, well,

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Speaker 3: that's great. However it didn't work. The output might have

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Speaker 3: been huge, but as Jesse said, if the outcome is

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Speaker 3: not good, the actual effort itself.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't count for anything.

427
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Speaker 3: So we're in an outcome based society, not output.

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Speaker 1: But that's tricky, right, I very much recognize that to me,

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Speaker 1: But the outcome isn't always in your control. How much

430
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Speaker 1: effort can you put into something is in your control,

431
00:20:42,061 --> 00:20:44,622
Speaker 1: but the outcome is not always because it's affected by

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Speaker 1: lots of other factors, right, And it's interesting to me.

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Speaker 1: You know, we as a society, although we do say

434
00:20:51,502 --> 00:20:55,981
Speaker 1: that we really value hard work, We really worship natural talent.

435
00:20:56,141 --> 00:21:00,542
Speaker 1: We really worship like high IQ, natural beauty, like speed,

436
00:21:00,742 --> 00:21:03,782
Speaker 1: whatever it might be that people are and renately got

437
00:21:03,821 --> 00:21:07,582
Speaker 1: it and things looking effortless. We really like that.

438
00:21:07,821 --> 00:21:11,381
Speaker 3: Whereas if people when it comes to female appearance, certainly

439
00:21:11,381 --> 00:21:12,862
Speaker 3: when it comes to women and an.

440
00:21:12,821 --> 00:21:15,581
Speaker 1: Intelligence, we talk all the time about they're smart. They're smart,

441
00:21:15,621 --> 00:21:18,542
Speaker 1: they're smart. We don't talk about whether or not they've

442
00:21:18,661 --> 00:21:22,061
Speaker 1: worked really hard to do that. And I wonder if

443
00:21:22,141 --> 00:21:24,821
Speaker 1: that's partly because of that You can work really, really

444
00:21:24,861 --> 00:21:27,381
Speaker 1: hard and what actually comes from that might not be

445
00:21:27,422 --> 00:21:29,821
Speaker 1: in your control. So then how do you measure success

446
00:21:29,861 --> 00:21:30,142
Speaker 1: at all?

447
00:21:30,341 --> 00:21:35,501
Speaker 2: Is the praising of effort really about arts? Attempting to

448
00:21:35,782 --> 00:21:39,901
Speaker 2: teach kids and young people to love the process because

449
00:21:39,901 --> 00:21:41,621
Speaker 2: the process is where you're going to spend ninety nine

450
00:21:41,621 --> 00:21:43,422
Speaker 2: percent of your time and also character.

451
00:21:43,621 --> 00:21:46,262
Speaker 1: I think it's about trying to teach character, but it

452
00:21:46,302 --> 00:21:49,821
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily guarantee success. But would I rather that my

453
00:21:49,982 --> 00:21:53,542
Speaker 1: kids were pleasant and class, did their homework with polite

454
00:21:53,581 --> 00:21:56,222
Speaker 1: to their teachers, or that yes, that's character right, rather

455
00:21:56,262 --> 00:21:58,341
Speaker 1: than though I didn't try, I didn't do anything. I

456
00:21:58,422 --> 00:22:01,141
Speaker 1: wasn't a productive person or a good team player or

457
00:22:01,141 --> 00:22:03,381
Speaker 1: any but I got an A because I'm clever. Like,

458
00:22:03,621 --> 00:22:05,382
Speaker 1: that's not my value system.

459
00:22:05,222 --> 00:22:07,941
Speaker 3: In all situations are the same. So for example, trying

460
00:22:07,942 --> 00:22:12,302
Speaker 3: in a relationship is worth a lot. Some things you

461
00:22:12,302 --> 00:22:15,981
Speaker 3: can't control, but you can control how much you try,

462
00:22:16,742 --> 00:22:20,621
Speaker 3: whereas at work there are no rewards for trying.

463
00:22:20,742 --> 00:22:22,821
Speaker 1: I mean there can be. You know, it's interesting.

464
00:22:23,141 --> 00:22:25,701
Speaker 3: We have a lot of shout outs and encouragement for

465
00:22:25,742 --> 00:22:27,901
Speaker 3: people who try, because that is a character and a

466
00:22:27,982 --> 00:22:30,862
Speaker 3: core value that you really want. But I think what

467
00:22:30,901 --> 00:22:33,622
Speaker 3: Adam Grant says, which is the key to this is

468
00:22:34,502 --> 00:22:36,942
Speaker 3: what you need to do is say I tried really hard,

469
00:22:36,982 --> 00:22:40,941
Speaker 3: which does count for something, but the outcome was not

470
00:22:40,982 --> 00:22:43,662
Speaker 3: what I wanted and not what I'd hoped for and

471
00:22:43,861 --> 00:22:48,181
Speaker 3: feels not true to the amount of effort I put in. Therefore,

472
00:22:48,182 --> 00:22:50,102
Speaker 3: what could I do differently. So I used to hear

473
00:22:50,422 --> 00:22:53,582
Speaker 3: a lot a writer would say, I wrote this really

474
00:22:53,621 --> 00:22:56,181
Speaker 3: great story. It was fantastic, it just didn't do well.

475
00:22:56,502 --> 00:22:58,101
Speaker 3: No one read it, And I'm like, well, then it

476
00:22:58,141 --> 00:23:00,742
Speaker 3: wasn't great. What are we missing? Was it the headline

477
00:23:00,742 --> 00:23:03,141
Speaker 3: perhaps could have been different, was it the image we chose,

478
00:23:03,302 --> 00:23:06,341
Speaker 3: was it the way we promoted it?

479
00:23:06,381 --> 00:23:07,181
Speaker 1: A story, it's a.

480
00:23:07,141 --> 00:23:08,701
Speaker 3: Bit like if a tree falls in a forest. You

481
00:23:08,742 --> 00:23:10,821
Speaker 3: can try really hard, story can be really great, but

482
00:23:10,861 --> 00:23:14,141
Speaker 3: what's the objective measure of that greatness? And in a

483
00:23:14,262 --> 00:23:17,421
Speaker 3: workplace it is fairly objectives.

484
00:23:17,742 --> 00:23:20,461
Speaker 2: A point of effort, though, is that it's meant to

485
00:23:20,542 --> 00:23:24,782
Speaker 2: be internally validating. So what we're trying to teach kids

486
00:23:24,901 --> 00:23:27,341
Speaker 2: is that you should be proud that you tried, and

487
00:23:27,502 --> 00:23:30,702
Speaker 2: pride is meant to come from within. It's not meant

488
00:23:30,742 --> 00:23:33,381
Speaker 2: to be something that your teacher gives you, or your

489
00:23:33,422 --> 00:23:35,581
Speaker 2: boss gives you or whatever. It's something that you go

490
00:23:35,621 --> 00:23:37,581
Speaker 2: to bed at night and your internal validation I know

491
00:23:37,661 --> 00:23:40,581
Speaker 2: I tried my best is the internal validation. Because you

492
00:23:40,621 --> 00:23:42,901
Speaker 2: can sit down and do your best and write a

493
00:23:42,901 --> 00:23:44,621
Speaker 2: book that you believe is really good and put in

494
00:23:44,821 --> 00:23:46,782
Speaker 2: three times as much effort as you ever have with

495
00:23:46,821 --> 00:23:50,461
Speaker 2: anything you've ever done, and that book might absolutely flop.

496
00:23:50,742 --> 00:23:53,782
Speaker 2: And that's because of luck, and it's because of timmunity

497
00:23:54,022 --> 00:23:56,381
Speaker 2: and market and all of the things you can't control.

498
00:23:57,141 --> 00:24:00,861
Speaker 2: But if you're doing everything for external validation, then it's

499
00:24:00,861 --> 00:24:04,302
Speaker 2: never going to be that satisfying anyway. So really, I

500
00:24:04,302 --> 00:24:07,141
Speaker 2: think effort is just something about like it does we

501
00:24:07,182 --> 00:24:09,461
Speaker 2: should get our self esteem from how does that work.

502
00:24:09,302 --> 00:24:11,621
Speaker 3: In the real world when it comes to trying to

503
00:24:11,621 --> 00:24:15,262
Speaker 3: get a job, trying to retain that job, doing your exams.

504
00:24:16,022 --> 00:24:18,941
Speaker 1: It doesn't actually matter how much effort you.

505
00:24:19,222 --> 00:24:21,101
Speaker 2: Think it does, though, Like if I walk through my

506
00:24:21,821 --> 00:24:24,262
Speaker 2: life and I go I didn't get that opportunity, but

507
00:24:24,302 --> 00:24:26,542
Speaker 2: I know that I tried my absolute best. There's a

508
00:24:26,581 --> 00:24:29,422
Speaker 2: real peace with that. There are people I see who

509
00:24:29,462 --> 00:24:31,702
Speaker 2: don't want to try their best because that's a scary

510
00:24:31,702 --> 00:24:33,982
Speaker 2: thing to do because rejection could be on the other side.

511
00:24:34,861 --> 00:24:36,742
Speaker 1: I'm already to try. I see what you're saying.

512
00:24:36,782 --> 00:24:41,141
Speaker 3: So you're saying that as parents, we're trying to help

513
00:24:41,502 --> 00:24:45,662
Speaker 3: our children to get that internal validation so that they're

514
00:24:45,702 --> 00:24:49,701
Speaker 3: not completely beholden to the validation external validation of the

515
00:24:49,742 --> 00:24:50,342
Speaker 3: outside world.

516
00:24:50,422 --> 00:24:52,181
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is like the weather. You can't control it.

517
00:24:52,222 --> 00:24:55,101
Speaker 2: What you can control is what you But.

518
00:24:55,262 --> 00:24:58,061
Speaker 1: How do you I have a very clear memory of

519
00:24:58,101 --> 00:25:01,621
Speaker 1: being a like early high school kid. It will shock

520
00:25:01,661 --> 00:25:03,782
Speaker 1: you both to learn that I was not sporty, like,

521
00:25:03,901 --> 00:25:06,542
Speaker 1: not even a tiny bit, but I quite like running.

522
00:25:06,782 --> 00:25:10,941
Speaker 1: And we've earned one hundred meters athletics and I remember going,

523
00:25:11,061 --> 00:25:13,302
Speaker 1: I am going to run as fast as I can.

524
00:25:13,542 --> 00:25:15,581
Speaker 1: We're going to run so hard, We're going to try

525
00:25:15,621 --> 00:25:17,942
Speaker 1: so hard, and I was just shit at it. Yeah,

526
00:25:17,982 --> 00:25:20,421
Speaker 1: And I went, well, clearly, I'm not a runner, and

527
00:25:20,462 --> 00:25:22,422
Speaker 1: I just would go and smoke sickies behind the bike

528
00:25:22,462 --> 00:25:24,621
Speaker 1: shed for the rest of the whole rest of my

529
00:25:25,262 --> 00:25:27,701
Speaker 1: sports career. I see this in my kids where they

530
00:25:27,742 --> 00:25:29,861
Speaker 1: put in a lot of effort on a particular essay

531
00:25:29,901 --> 00:25:31,502
Speaker 1: or whatever and they don't get a good mark and

532
00:25:31,542 --> 00:25:34,742
Speaker 1: they just kind of go, yeah, well, what's clearly I'm

533
00:25:34,782 --> 00:25:36,542
Speaker 1: not good at that, so I'm just not going to

534
00:25:36,621 --> 00:25:38,941
Speaker 1: do that. Or I tried really hard to understand that massing,

535
00:25:39,141 --> 00:25:40,982
Speaker 1: but I'm not good at it. So mathstead to me,

536
00:25:41,182 --> 00:25:45,221
Speaker 1: like it's really hard to there's still a lesson in

537
00:25:45,462 --> 00:25:47,941
Speaker 1: there have any motivation for things that they don't succeed

538
00:25:47,942 --> 00:25:50,382
Speaker 1: that because most of us are average at most things. Right,

539
00:25:50,462 --> 00:25:52,382
Speaker 1: most of us are like a few people are really

540
00:25:52,422 --> 00:25:54,302
Speaker 1: good at a handful of things, but most of us

541
00:25:54,302 --> 00:25:57,542
Speaker 1: are pretty average at most things. So if we're only

542
00:25:57,782 --> 00:26:02,502
Speaker 1: interested in outcome, then you wouldn't do ninety percent of

543
00:26:02,502 --> 00:26:03,381
Speaker 1: the things you've got to do.

544
00:26:03,742 --> 00:26:07,141
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I guess that's resilience. But it's like maybe,

545
00:26:07,182 --> 00:26:09,141
Speaker 2: then you go, it's about changing your goals, right, and

546
00:26:09,141 --> 00:26:13,861
Speaker 2: you go, well, next time, I want to come second, last, last.

547
00:26:15,661 --> 00:26:17,581
Speaker 3: That is, after the break, We've got you sorted with

548
00:26:17,702 --> 00:26:21,221
Speaker 3: some recos, including something to cook, a movie to make

549
00:26:21,262 --> 00:26:23,422
Speaker 3: you cry, and a TV show about bitches.

550
00:26:27,901 --> 00:26:31,782
Speaker 1: Vibes, ideas, atmosphere, something casual, something fun.

551
00:26:32,302 --> 00:26:33,862
Speaker 2: This is my best recommendation.

552
00:26:35,341 --> 00:26:37,501
Speaker 3: It's Friday, so we want to help you set up

553
00:26:37,502 --> 00:26:39,302
Speaker 3: the weekend with our best recommendations.

554
00:26:39,302 --> 00:26:43,782
Speaker 1: Holly, please go first, something to eat while wearing fast.

555
00:26:43,821 --> 00:26:46,582
Speaker 1: We've been talking about protein around here, Haley. I am

556
00:26:46,581 --> 00:26:51,262
Speaker 1: in my big chicken salad era because I love chicken. Chicken, chicken.

557
00:26:51,542 --> 00:26:53,901
Speaker 1: We talked about it the other week. Maybe chicken with

558
00:26:53,942 --> 00:26:55,942
Speaker 1: egg maybe chicken with legoons.

559
00:26:56,182 --> 00:26:57,662
Speaker 2: What anyways does this chicken?

560
00:26:57,742 --> 00:27:00,101
Speaker 3: Have you noticed that eggs there's a shortage because of

561
00:27:00,141 --> 00:27:01,302
Speaker 3: bird flu, so anyone else.

562
00:27:03,462 --> 00:27:07,422
Speaker 1: It's very disheartening. It's tricky froust vegetarians. I am recommending

563
00:27:07,861 --> 00:27:10,221
Speaker 1: a chicken salad from the one and I only wonderful

564
00:27:10,341 --> 00:27:13,381
Speaker 1: Nagi of recipe in Eats fame now if you don't

565
00:27:13,422 --> 00:27:15,302
Speaker 1: know about Recipe to Eats, and of course you do,

566
00:27:15,341 --> 00:27:18,901
Speaker 1: because everybody does. She is the most unbelievable cook and

567
00:27:18,982 --> 00:27:22,221
Speaker 1: her two most recent cookbooks she became really famous for

568
00:27:22,262 --> 00:27:25,422
Speaker 1: having recip eats online. It's what we might have once

569
00:27:25,502 --> 00:27:29,222
Speaker 1: called a blog became a cult hit. Her last two

570
00:27:29,262 --> 00:27:32,662
Speaker 1: cookbooks have been like they outsell everything in the universe.

571
00:27:33,222 --> 00:27:35,661
Speaker 1: Is it just about things in a tin? No, not

572
00:27:35,702 --> 00:27:37,821
Speaker 1: at all, Not at all. I thought it was all

573
00:27:37,861 --> 00:27:39,101
Speaker 1: things that you could make with tin.

574
00:27:39,262 --> 00:27:39,462
Speaker 4: No.

575
00:27:39,462 --> 00:27:41,862
Speaker 1: No, Recipe in Eats just comes from the original name

576
00:27:41,901 --> 00:27:43,302
Speaker 1: of it, which is like a tin that you keep

577
00:27:43,302 --> 00:27:47,581
Speaker 1: your recipes in. Oh you see, not really, but any

578
00:27:47,581 --> 00:27:49,861
Speaker 1: always stand the reason everyone loves there as the food

579
00:27:49,942 --> 00:27:53,341
Speaker 1: is really tasty. It's relatively simple and basic and it

580
00:27:53,581 --> 00:27:57,421
Speaker 1: always works. And her most recent book is called Tonight,

581
00:27:57,581 --> 00:28:01,022
Speaker 1: and I have been making from it this it's called

582
00:28:01,222 --> 00:28:05,021
Speaker 1: Cowboy Chicken Salad, and it's like a Mexican chicken salad.

583
00:28:07,182 --> 00:28:10,101
Speaker 1: Chicken so you get chicken breast, and obviously you're going

584
00:28:10,182 --> 00:28:11,701
Speaker 1: to need the proper recipe because I'm not.

585
00:28:11,861 --> 00:28:12,782
Speaker 2: But like, do you grill it?

586
00:28:12,861 --> 00:28:17,462
Speaker 1: Do you whack itack whack, which is very satisfying to

587
00:28:17,502 --> 00:28:19,901
Speaker 1: get it nice and flat. Then you marinate rob it

588
00:28:19,982 --> 00:28:22,181
Speaker 1: in some stuff which obviously argue you'll tell you what

589
00:28:22,262 --> 00:28:24,381
Speaker 1: that is, but it's like you know, Mexican spices. You

590
00:28:24,462 --> 00:28:26,462
Speaker 1: marinate it and then you grill it, and then you

591
00:28:26,581 --> 00:28:29,821
Speaker 1: have it on this salad, which is like avocado, tomato, corn,

592
00:28:30,341 --> 00:28:33,302
Speaker 1: black beans. But the thing that makes it amazing, as

593
00:28:33,341 --> 00:28:35,982
Speaker 1: with any salad, is the dressing. And it's this Mexican

594
00:28:36,061 --> 00:28:39,062
Speaker 1: dressing with like lime and cumine and whatever. But I

595
00:28:39,182 --> 00:28:41,062
Speaker 1: make mine with yogurt because too much mayo makes me

596
00:28:41,142 --> 00:28:43,542
Speaker 1: feel poorly. But you can use mayo if that's your vibe.

597
00:28:43,822 --> 00:28:46,661
Speaker 1: I just can't tell you how good it is that

598
00:28:46,902 --> 00:28:49,742
Speaker 1: I love it satisfying and how much it is a

599
00:28:49,902 --> 00:28:52,222
Speaker 1: meal that just fills you up. And if you want

600
00:28:52,302 --> 00:28:54,062
Speaker 1: less avocado because you're not doing that or whatever, of

601
00:28:54,142 --> 00:28:55,142
Speaker 1: course you can do whatever you want.

602
00:28:55,622 --> 00:28:55,822
Speaker 2: Eat it.

603
00:28:56,382 --> 00:28:59,382
Speaker 1: Yeah, Matilda loved it, Billy Woni. Then the thing that's

604
00:28:59,462 --> 00:29:02,022
Speaker 1: vaguely looks like a vegetable, but he ate the chicken part.

605
00:29:02,142 --> 00:29:06,822
Speaker 1: Could I do it with a barbecued chicken? Oh chicken? No,

606
00:29:07,222 --> 00:29:09,102
Speaker 1: Well you could, but it wouldn't taste quite as good.

607
00:29:09,142 --> 00:29:11,982
Speaker 1: But yeah, dressing would hide a million sins. I'm looking

608
00:29:12,022 --> 00:29:14,182
Speaker 1: for a lower effort way. Yeah, it's not that hard

609
00:29:14,222 --> 00:29:18,302
Speaker 1: to promise, but it's delicious. Of that cowboy chicken salad,

610
00:29:18,342 --> 00:29:20,742
Speaker 1: it is my recommendation. It is all I'm eating this summer.

611
00:29:21,222 --> 00:29:25,502
Speaker 3: I texted every mother I know about the movie Night Bitch,

612
00:29:25,622 --> 00:29:27,622
Speaker 3: which I watched over the long weekend.

613
00:29:28,382 --> 00:29:30,862
Speaker 1: Is super cute. Do you just love getting to be

614
00:29:30,942 --> 00:29:36,502
Speaker 1: home with them all the time? Yeah? I do. I

615
00:29:36,622 --> 00:29:41,302
Speaker 1: love it. You're an artist, right, well I used to

616
00:29:41,342 --> 00:29:45,622
Speaker 1: feel wow, but that feels like a lifetime agirls. Yeah,

617
00:29:45,622 --> 00:29:53,262
Speaker 1: totally definitely we get it. I used to be a stripper, Mamadie.

618
00:29:54,382 --> 00:29:57,302
Speaker 1: I'm not buzzy. I just feel aw look at my

619
00:29:57,382 --> 00:29:58,302
Speaker 1: teeth sharp.

620
00:29:58,382 --> 00:29:59,702
Speaker 5: There's a little bit weird.

621
00:30:00,702 --> 00:30:04,862
Speaker 1: Motherhood and changes you and connects you to some primal urges.

622
00:30:07,742 --> 00:30:09,982
Speaker 3: Have you ever felt so exhausted as a that you

623
00:30:10,142 --> 00:30:12,421
Speaker 3: worried you might actually be turning into a dog.

624
00:30:13,382 --> 00:30:17,142
Speaker 2: Maybe not not exactly that dog, but a wild animal.

625
00:30:17,262 --> 00:30:20,622
Speaker 3: Yes, that's the premise of Night Bitch. It stars Amy Adams.

626
00:30:20,702 --> 00:30:23,742
Speaker 3: She was nominated for a Golden Globe for Best Actor

627
00:30:23,782 --> 00:30:27,941
Speaker 3: in a Comedy or Musical. It's been categorized in that

628
00:30:28,182 --> 00:30:31,622
Speaker 3: genre body horror, along with the substance. But it's not

629
00:30:32,142 --> 00:30:34,782
Speaker 3: anything like the substance that was too gory for you.

630
00:30:35,262 --> 00:30:36,702
Speaker 3: There's one tiny.

631
00:30:36,542 --> 00:30:39,982
Speaker 1: Scene that's a little bit erh Is it funny? I

632
00:30:40,142 --> 00:30:40,862
Speaker 1: think so much.

633
00:30:41,382 --> 00:30:43,582
Speaker 2: It looked almost like a black comedy, like the concept

634
00:30:43,702 --> 00:30:44,022
Speaker 2: is Finney.

635
00:30:44,062 --> 00:30:48,862
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. The concept is funny but also very powerful.

636
00:30:49,302 --> 00:30:53,021
Speaker 3: It captures something really raw about motherhood that I've never

637
00:30:53,102 --> 00:30:56,622
Speaker 3: seen on screen before, and the turning into a dog thing.

638
00:30:56,942 --> 00:30:59,862
Speaker 3: There's no spoilers here, but it's actually just such an

639
00:30:59,902 --> 00:31:03,262
Speaker 3: amazing metaphor for how primal and feral motherhood can feel.

640
00:31:03,302 --> 00:31:05,261
Speaker 3: So Amy Adams is a woman who's got a toddler,

641
00:31:05,782 --> 00:31:08,022
Speaker 3: her husband is away for work a lot, and it's

642
00:31:08,302 --> 00:31:10,222
Speaker 3: just which is so good.

643
00:31:10,422 --> 00:31:11,382
Speaker 1: It's on Disney.

644
00:31:11,422 --> 00:31:14,062
Speaker 3: Plus, I'm just desperate for everyone to see it so

645
00:31:14,182 --> 00:31:15,142
Speaker 3: that I can want to watch it.

646
00:31:15,182 --> 00:31:16,102
Speaker 1: I will totally watch it.

647
00:31:16,422 --> 00:31:20,302
Speaker 2: Jesse My recommendation is also a movie. I went to

648
00:31:21,182 --> 00:31:23,661
Speaker 2: the movies over the weekend and saw We live in

649
00:31:23,862 --> 00:31:27,782
Speaker 2: Time with Andrew Garfield and Florence Pew and it is

650
00:31:28,382 --> 00:31:29,702
Speaker 2: exactly what I expected.

651
00:31:32,182 --> 00:31:33,021
Speaker 4: What's happened to my own?

652
00:31:34,262 --> 00:31:35,421
Speaker 1: Why it's an idea?

653
00:31:35,742 --> 00:31:38,142
Speaker 3: I'm so sorry, But do we know each other yet?

654
00:31:38,262 --> 00:31:38,302
Speaker 4: No?

655
00:31:41,582 --> 00:31:48,542
Speaker 1: I run you over? Sorry, Sorry, I'm Alma by the way.

656
00:31:49,382 --> 00:31:51,662
Speaker 1: Both we're going to make sure you have the time

657
00:31:51,782 --> 00:31:57,302
Speaker 1: of your life. Okay, probably ought to get go, he says.

658
00:31:57,942 --> 00:32:00,701
Speaker 1: Unless you have checked to do, then I have nothing.

659
00:32:04,862 --> 00:32:05,701
Speaker 3: Whether we like it or not.

660
00:32:06,782 --> 00:32:12,062
Speaker 1: Clock is ticking because I'm worried. There's a very distinct

661
00:32:12,182 --> 00:32:15,022
Speaker 1: and real possibility that I am about to fall in

662
00:32:15,102 --> 00:32:15,502
Speaker 1: love with you.

663
00:32:17,382 --> 00:32:21,022
Speaker 2: It's brilliant, it's moving. How long did it take me

664
00:32:21,142 --> 00:32:21,422
Speaker 2: to cry?

665
00:32:21,542 --> 00:32:21,902
Speaker 1: I reckon.

666
00:32:21,982 --> 00:32:24,342
Speaker 2: I cried in the first fifteen to twenty minutes, which

667
00:32:24,382 --> 00:32:25,782
Speaker 2: a lot of people have said. And then you just

668
00:32:26,142 --> 00:32:28,982
Speaker 2: you managed to cry the whole way along. But what's

669
00:32:29,062 --> 00:32:31,502
Speaker 2: amazing about it is that at no point does it

670
00:32:31,582 --> 00:32:33,062
Speaker 2: hit you over the head. There are points where I

671
00:32:33,102 --> 00:32:35,181
Speaker 2: went you could have gone harder on that, but it's

672
00:32:35,262 --> 00:32:38,542
Speaker 2: the subtlety of the pain. In a lot of the moments.

673
00:32:39,342 --> 00:32:41,142
Speaker 2: When the lights came on at the end, I just

674
00:32:41,661 --> 00:32:45,182
Speaker 2: was heaving crying like it. It is so so well done,

675
00:32:45,262 --> 00:32:48,941
Speaker 2: and Florence Pugh steals it. In my opinion. The broad

676
00:32:48,982 --> 00:32:52,622
Speaker 2: storyline is that there's Almut and Tobias. It's been called

677
00:32:52,661 --> 00:32:56,702
Speaker 2: a sort of rom com vibe. It's them, and then

678
00:32:56,822 --> 00:32:59,622
Speaker 2: she receives a diet. So yeah, I thought it was

679
00:32:59,661 --> 00:33:01,702
Speaker 2: interesting to call it a rom com, but that's the genre.

680
00:33:01,742 --> 00:33:06,342
Speaker 2: Apparently she receives a diagnosis. And what's new about this

681
00:33:06,822 --> 00:33:12,622
Speaker 2: is that it explores ambition and motherhood and not wanting

682
00:33:12,782 --> 00:33:16,181
Speaker 2: to just be remembered as someone's dying mother, Like what

683
00:33:16,342 --> 00:33:19,742
Speaker 2: do you want out of that period of your life?

684
00:33:20,062 --> 00:33:23,262
Speaker 2: And you know how it's the cliche or no one

685
00:33:23,582 --> 00:33:25,702
Speaker 2: lays on the deathbed thinking they want to work more.

686
00:33:26,542 --> 00:33:28,302
Speaker 2: This may be challenges that a bit and says what

687
00:33:28,582 --> 00:33:31,022
Speaker 2: would you want to do? And what might it take

688
00:33:31,222 --> 00:33:35,622
Speaker 2: from the people you love? So it's so really good?

689
00:33:35,862 --> 00:33:39,782
Speaker 1: Is it very distressing? Well? What do you think? I

690
00:33:42,422 --> 00:33:42,982
Speaker 1: didn't know.

691
00:33:43,462 --> 00:33:46,582
Speaker 2: I knew that it was about illness, but what I

692
00:33:46,822 --> 00:33:49,822
Speaker 2: didn't know was that they had a daughter, and that

693
00:33:49,982 --> 00:33:52,742
Speaker 2: bit killed me, Like that bit there.

694
00:33:54,822 --> 00:33:56,542
Speaker 1: Because I think we talked about this, but like I

695
00:33:56,622 --> 00:33:59,342
Speaker 1: want to go somewhere and just cry. I will. I

696
00:33:59,542 --> 00:34:02,142
Speaker 1: love movies that make me do that. And I love

697
00:34:02,222 --> 00:34:04,622
Speaker 1: the idea because if there are so many movies from

698
00:34:04,702 --> 00:34:08,181
Speaker 1: Turns of Indment to Sleep Sin Seattle that have dead moms, right,

699
00:34:08,822 --> 00:34:13,701
Speaker 1: and it's true, but they are always absolutely selfless angels,

700
00:34:14,142 --> 00:34:17,702
Speaker 1: like it's just the trope, right, So I'm really interested.

701
00:34:17,262 --> 00:34:19,982
Speaker 2: In saying that played with the challenged.

702
00:34:20,142 --> 00:34:21,862
Speaker 1: What was it like when the last came on? It

703
00:34:21,982 --> 00:34:22,502
Speaker 1: was not good.

704
00:34:22,701 --> 00:34:24,942
Speaker 2: I was there with two friends and they just couldn't

705
00:34:24,942 --> 00:34:26,741
Speaker 2: stop laughing, And then they were like, and they kept

706
00:34:26,781 --> 00:34:28,981
Speaker 2: saying one line from it that just got me. It wasn't.

707
00:34:28,982 --> 00:34:31,502
Speaker 2: I cried all the way home, but it felt good.

708
00:34:31,542 --> 00:34:33,582
Speaker 2: I'm not a crier, Like I can't remember the last

709
00:34:33,622 --> 00:34:35,781
Speaker 2: time I cried, and it just felt very cathartic to

710
00:34:35,822 --> 00:34:36,301
Speaker 2: get that out.

711
00:34:36,781 --> 00:34:38,462
Speaker 3: I've got one more little throw in before we go,

712
00:34:38,661 --> 00:34:40,942
Speaker 3: before I forget. I watched it over the holidays.

713
00:34:41,221 --> 00:34:43,542
Speaker 1: One of my favorite TV shows of all time, The's Split.

714
00:34:43,862 --> 00:34:44,982
Speaker 2: I've never watched remember.

715
00:34:45,142 --> 00:34:46,382
Speaker 1: There were about four seasons.

716
00:34:46,542 --> 00:34:49,181
Speaker 3: It was about a family of women who were all lawyers,

717
00:34:49,261 --> 00:34:51,781
Speaker 3: a mother and her three daughters. Two of the three

718
00:34:51,862 --> 00:34:55,661
Speaker 3: daughters were lawyers, and it was just a beautiful, interesting

719
00:34:55,741 --> 00:34:58,102
Speaker 3: and they were family lawyers. So each week there was

720
00:34:58,342 --> 00:35:00,741
Speaker 3: someone's divorce that they were working on, and it also

721
00:35:00,781 --> 00:35:03,302
Speaker 3: followed their lives. Anyway, I loved it. It was written

722
00:35:03,342 --> 00:35:07,022
Speaker 3: by Abby Morgan who is a phenomenal writer any way

723
00:35:07,302 --> 00:35:09,182
Speaker 3: she has done. They did a bit of a Christmas

724
00:35:09,181 --> 00:35:12,462
Speaker 3: special which was like a three episode arc where they

725
00:35:12,622 --> 00:35:15,301
Speaker 3: got the cast back together and it was the split Barcelona.

726
00:35:16,622 --> 00:35:21,701
Speaker 1: You look amazing. I love a good weather. Have you

727
00:35:21,822 --> 00:35:23,941
Speaker 1: been dating a couple of dates a few months ago?

728
00:35:24,422 --> 00:35:29,301
Speaker 1: Archie asterious lawyer, We may have a Seriously, Hannah, what's ho?

729
00:35:29,382 --> 00:35:32,062
Speaker 1: Are you back? Scared of being alone? Scared of being

730
00:35:32,142 --> 00:35:32,582
Speaker 1: with someone?

731
00:35:32,781 --> 00:35:35,102
Speaker 4: But isn't anything worth doing? Terrifying?

732
00:35:35,582 --> 00:35:36,582
Speaker 1: Another taste of that.

733
00:35:38,902 --> 00:35:41,741
Speaker 3: It was, you know, a bit like four weddings and

734
00:35:41,822 --> 00:35:44,662
Speaker 3: a funeral but in Spain. They all go to Spain

735
00:35:44,942 --> 00:35:48,661
Speaker 3: for the main character, Hannah, her daughter's getting married and

736
00:35:49,261 --> 00:35:51,862
Speaker 3: it's just where do you watch escape as viewing on

737
00:35:52,102 --> 00:35:55,742
Speaker 3: ABC iView And it's worth it just for the Barcelona's scenery.

738
00:35:55,741 --> 00:35:56,622
Speaker 1: It or make you want to go to.

739
00:35:56,622 --> 00:36:00,822
Speaker 2: Spain after the break, an ambition, crisis, a big booboo.

740
00:36:01,022 --> 00:36:02,861
Speaker 2: It is our best and worst of the week.

741
00:36:03,942 --> 00:36:06,741
Speaker 3: Every Tuesday and Thursday we dropped new segments of Mama

742
00:36:06,822 --> 00:36:10,102
Speaker 3: Mia Out Loud just for Muma MEA subscribers. Follow the

743
00:36:10,181 --> 00:36:12,062
Speaker 3: link in the show notes to get your daily dose

744
00:36:12,142 --> 00:36:14,661
Speaker 3: of out Loud and a big thank you to everyone

745
00:36:14,822 --> 00:36:16,102
Speaker 3: who is already subscribed.

746
00:36:25,781 --> 00:36:28,221
Speaker 2: It's time for Best and Worst of the week. This

747
00:36:28,382 --> 00:36:30,261
Speaker 2: is a part of the show where we share a

748
00:36:30,342 --> 00:36:33,702
Speaker 2: bit from our personal lives. What's been going on, Holly?

749
00:36:34,102 --> 00:36:35,422
Speaker 2: Your worst? Please?

750
00:36:35,942 --> 00:36:38,341
Speaker 1: Well you know what my worst is, Jesse, because you've

751
00:36:38,382 --> 00:36:40,062
Speaker 1: got a panicked message from me in the middle of

752
00:36:40,142 --> 00:36:42,981
Speaker 1: Thursday morning saying, do you know how to get something

753
00:36:43,062 --> 00:36:44,821
Speaker 1: out of the trash on your computer when you have

754
00:36:44,902 --> 00:36:45,622
Speaker 1: already emptied it.

755
00:36:45,982 --> 00:36:47,702
Speaker 2: I had a bad feeling when I read that message,

756
00:36:47,701 --> 00:36:49,741
Speaker 2: and I said to you, the good news is you

757
00:36:49,862 --> 00:36:50,261
Speaker 2: have your.

758
00:36:50,221 --> 00:36:56,422
Speaker 1: Worst, and you did. I was in my little office

759
00:36:56,462 --> 00:36:58,542
Speaker 1: at home. We were going away for the long weekend,

760
00:36:58,661 --> 00:37:00,982
Speaker 1: and so I was getting ready and you know, you're

761
00:37:01,022 --> 00:37:03,421
Speaker 1: like prepping things. I was answering some emails, making sure

762
00:37:03,462 --> 00:37:06,902
Speaker 1: I had everything in place, and in the most uncharacteristic

763
00:37:07,062 --> 00:37:09,781
Speaker 1: move of my life, I went my desktop. It's a

764
00:37:09,902 --> 00:37:10,542
Speaker 1: terrible mess.

765
00:37:11,142 --> 00:37:12,941
Speaker 2: I've done this, Yeah, terrible mess.

766
00:37:13,142 --> 00:37:16,741
Speaker 1: Just twenty million random screen shots, you know, all that

767
00:37:16,862 --> 00:37:19,342
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. You know what our desktops look like, so,

768
00:37:19,582 --> 00:37:21,542
Speaker 1: I'm just going to get a little clean out, big

769
00:37:21,661 --> 00:37:23,502
Speaker 1: clean out, just whack it all in the trash. And

770
00:37:23,542 --> 00:37:27,462
Speaker 1: then in the second incredibly uncharacteristic move, I went and

771
00:37:27,502 --> 00:37:29,142
Speaker 1: I'm going to empty the trash because I'm sure I'm

772
00:37:29,142 --> 00:37:31,221
Speaker 1: taking up a lot of memory on my computer. So

773
00:37:31,302 --> 00:37:34,701
Speaker 1: I hit empty trash and then I thought, I've got

774
00:37:34,781 --> 00:37:38,821
Speaker 1: to just finish that very important proposition for the next

775
00:37:38,862 --> 00:37:41,062
Speaker 1: book I'm writing that my publishers waiting on that I've

776
00:37:41,062 --> 00:37:45,781
Speaker 1: been working on all summer. That's thousands of words. I

777
00:37:45,902 --> 00:37:49,741
Speaker 1: better just finish that before we go away and send it.

778
00:37:50,342 --> 00:37:52,221
Speaker 1: And then I realized that I had thrown that in

779
00:37:52,342 --> 00:37:54,701
Speaker 1: the bin on my computer and pressed empty. And I

780
00:37:54,902 --> 00:37:57,982
Speaker 1: cannot tell you how upset I was.

781
00:37:58,142 --> 00:37:58,701
Speaker 2: Did you cry?

782
00:37:59,022 --> 00:38:01,781
Speaker 1: You know? I didn't actually cry. I nearly cried. I

783
00:38:01,862 --> 00:38:04,582
Speaker 1: got very mad. Brent heard me screaming, and so he

784
00:38:04,661 --> 00:38:09,022
Speaker 1: came out and he was like, you know, when you're

785
00:38:09,022 --> 00:38:10,982
Speaker 1: getting ready to go away and there's chaos and everything,

786
00:38:11,062 --> 00:38:13,181
Speaker 1: you're packing and the kids, blah blah, and he was

787
00:38:13,261 --> 00:38:15,822
Speaker 1: like what what? And I was like had He immediately

788
00:38:15,862 --> 00:38:18,982
Speaker 1: went into don't panic, you're panicking. You're panicking, and I

789
00:38:19,142 --> 00:38:21,622
Speaker 1: was like yeah, So that was so bad.

790
00:38:22,142 --> 00:38:25,181
Speaker 2: Panic is the only appropriate was that I went to AI.

791
00:38:25,302 --> 00:38:27,382
Speaker 1: I did it before everyone goes you can do time machine.

792
00:38:27,582 --> 00:38:29,821
Speaker 1: I did all that. I went to all my clever

793
00:38:29,942 --> 00:38:32,342
Speaker 1: AI assistants. I asked them, then they told me what

794
00:38:32,422 --> 00:38:34,221
Speaker 1: to do. Then I tried. All those things didn't work,

795
00:38:34,622 --> 00:38:37,221
Speaker 1: which is also my fault. Like my eyicloud, I hadn't

796
00:38:37,221 --> 00:38:39,142
Speaker 1: saved it in the right folder to be on the cloud.

797
00:38:39,622 --> 00:38:42,142
Speaker 1: I hadn't updated my this and my that and all

798
00:38:42,142 --> 00:38:43,701
Speaker 1: that boring stuff, so I hadn't done any of that,

799
00:38:43,862 --> 00:38:46,062
Speaker 1: so it had really really gone. We even went to

800
00:38:46,181 --> 00:38:48,342
Speaker 1: an actual human who works in the computer shop with

801
00:38:48,382 --> 00:38:51,662
Speaker 1: my laptop, like Curry Bradshaw in that scene, yes, saying

802
00:38:51,982 --> 00:38:54,822
Speaker 1: can you help me, sir, please, kind sir, I'm desperate,

803
00:38:54,862 --> 00:38:57,062
Speaker 1: and he said no. And the thing that was so

804
00:38:57,221 --> 00:39:00,221
Speaker 1: weird about it, and I was so mad with myself,

805
00:39:00,422 --> 00:39:02,701
Speaker 1: is that it was so uncharacteristic that I'd written this

806
00:39:02,822 --> 00:39:04,821
Speaker 1: thing in the place that I had in a word

807
00:39:04,942 --> 00:39:07,022
Speaker 1: doc that I kept on my desktop. Normally I do

808
00:39:07,142 --> 00:39:10,622
Speaker 1: all that in a special program that's got saved somewhere,

809
00:39:10,741 --> 00:39:13,462
Speaker 1: like it was just like a series of that was crazy.

810
00:39:13,542 --> 00:39:15,741
Speaker 1: So then I tried to talk myself into well, clearly

811
00:39:15,822 --> 00:39:16,661
Speaker 1: that was meant to happen.

812
00:39:16,781 --> 00:39:18,102
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to try it, you.

813
00:39:18,102 --> 00:39:20,341
Speaker 1: Know what I mean say that, but I don't believe. Yeah.

814
00:39:20,582 --> 00:39:24,022
Speaker 3: The worst thing about that is you want to be

815
00:39:24,181 --> 00:39:26,502
Speaker 3: mad at someone like you want to be mad at

816
00:39:26,542 --> 00:39:28,462
Speaker 3: the technology. You want to be mad, and then it's

817
00:39:28,582 --> 00:39:30,462
Speaker 3: really upsetting when it just is you.

818
00:39:30,741 --> 00:39:33,422
Speaker 1: It was just me, And then I had to obviously

819
00:39:34,062 --> 00:39:37,342
Speaker 1: spend the rest of the weekend trying to recreate this

820
00:39:37,502 --> 00:39:39,942
Speaker 1: thing that I'd been working on in parcels all summer long.

821
00:39:40,542 --> 00:39:44,222
Speaker 1: It was very upsetting. I was very upset. We may recover,

822
00:39:44,342 --> 00:39:46,661
Speaker 1: we may not. Who knows. Anyway, Maybe you won't recover

823
00:39:46,741 --> 00:39:49,142
Speaker 1: the document you emotionally may emotionally.

824
00:39:50,181 --> 00:39:53,822
Speaker 3: I love also that you saving to say to your publisher,

825
00:39:54,542 --> 00:39:56,062
Speaker 3: I'm sorry I can't hand it.

826
00:39:56,102 --> 00:39:58,462
Speaker 1: In because I deleted it. I mean, that's some fucking

827
00:39:58,661 --> 00:40:01,902
Speaker 1: Freudian shit. Yeah, And you wouldn't believe it, would you

828
00:40:02,181 --> 00:40:04,502
Speaker 1: just be like, she's been kicking back all summer long? Anyway,

829
00:40:04,661 --> 00:40:08,382
Speaker 1: I haven't probably Anyway. My best is that then we

830
00:40:08,502 --> 00:40:10,462
Speaker 1: did go away, and the thing that was lovely, but

831
00:40:10,502 --> 00:40:14,622
Speaker 1: it must I can imagine. I was really really fun

832
00:40:14,862 --> 00:40:17,622
Speaker 1: and relaxed, but while I was stressing and trying to

833
00:40:17,862 --> 00:40:22,221
Speaker 1: remember all the great ideas I had. We made the

834
00:40:22,302 --> 00:40:24,622
Speaker 1: children do real life things. So we angst all the

835
00:40:24,661 --> 00:40:26,701
Speaker 1: time about how the kids don't live in the real

836
00:40:26,741 --> 00:40:29,741
Speaker 1: world anymore. And I have this sort of policy that

837
00:40:29,781 --> 00:40:31,221
Speaker 1: I think we've spoken about before where they have to

838
00:40:31,261 --> 00:40:33,661
Speaker 1: do one, like at least one real life thing every day,

839
00:40:33,822 --> 00:40:36,502
Speaker 1: like real life thing that's connected to the world. Anyway,

840
00:40:36,542 --> 00:40:38,181
Speaker 1: where we went was a bit further down the coast

841
00:40:38,181 --> 00:40:40,822
Speaker 1: and where we live, and there's this famous and possibly

842
00:40:40,942 --> 00:40:43,062
Speaker 1: quite dangerous I apologize to anyone who's going to tell

843
00:40:43,062 --> 00:40:45,821
Speaker 1: me I'm irresponsible, like jump there that kids jump off

844
00:40:45,862 --> 00:40:47,542
Speaker 1: not a rock, like not that kind of thing, but

845
00:40:47,701 --> 00:40:49,701
Speaker 1: like kind of like an old platform and you jump

846
00:40:49,741 --> 00:40:52,062
Speaker 1: into the ocean and the ocean's crystal clear and it's gorgeous.

847
00:40:52,382 --> 00:40:53,942
Speaker 1: And I was like, kids aren't going to do that.

848
00:40:54,261 --> 00:40:57,741
Speaker 1: Kids these days don't take risks. My kids spent push them.

849
00:40:59,022 --> 00:41:01,741
Speaker 4: I wouldn't have pushed anyone off anything at this point.

850
00:41:02,102 --> 00:41:04,982
Speaker 4: I wasn't throw myself off there at first.

851
00:41:05,181 --> 00:41:09,542
Speaker 1: I'm just like they spent all weekend of throw themself

852
00:41:09,902 --> 00:41:11,142
Speaker 1: this having the best time ever.

853
00:41:11,221 --> 00:41:11,741
Speaker 4: It was like this.

854
00:41:11,822 --> 00:41:16,301
Speaker 1: Beautiful, wholesome childhood thing. It was great. Billy, who gets

855
00:41:16,382 --> 00:41:19,022
Speaker 1: very obsessed about stuff, started counting how many times he'd

856
00:41:19,102 --> 00:41:20,542
Speaker 1: jumped off this thing. By the end of the weekend,

857
00:41:20,582 --> 00:41:23,902
Speaker 1: he'd jumped off at forty two times. I my wowness,

858
00:41:24,062 --> 00:41:25,862
Speaker 1: it was so much fun. So my worst was my

859
00:41:25,942 --> 00:41:28,502
Speaker 1: IDoc and my best was kids jumping off high stuff.

860
00:41:28,902 --> 00:41:31,942
Speaker 1: Be careful, take precautions. Everybody on both of those topics

861
00:41:32,382 --> 00:41:33,381
Speaker 1: maya what was your worst?

862
00:41:34,062 --> 00:41:37,382
Speaker 3: My worst and my best were intertwined this week in

863
00:41:37,582 --> 00:41:41,862
Speaker 3: the way that occasionally these things happen with bittersweet things.

864
00:41:42,701 --> 00:41:47,341
Speaker 3: I made the announcement yesterday that I am stepping away

865
00:41:47,342 --> 00:41:51,301
Speaker 3: from No Filter after ten years and I think six

866
00:41:51,422 --> 00:41:53,582
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty something episodes.

867
00:41:54,382 --> 00:41:55,661
Speaker 1: I've tried to do this.

868
00:41:55,701 --> 00:41:57,902
Speaker 3: A couple of times before, as listeners to No Filter

869
00:41:58,181 --> 00:42:00,821
Speaker 3: No and as you guys know, when I've needed a

870
00:42:00,862 --> 00:42:03,622
Speaker 3: little bit of a breather, I've persuaded some people, including

871
00:42:03,781 --> 00:42:06,861
Speaker 3: both of you, to step in for occasional episodes. Kate

872
00:42:06,942 --> 00:42:11,382
Speaker 3: Langbrook hosted for me over summer last year, but I

873
00:42:11,582 --> 00:42:13,582
Speaker 3: knew it was time. I've been wanting to do this

874
00:42:13,701 --> 00:42:16,822
Speaker 3: for a couple of years. It hasn't been possible because

875
00:42:16,942 --> 00:42:20,421
Speaker 3: there hasn't been anyone who has been able to take

876
00:42:20,462 --> 00:42:20,701
Speaker 3: it over.

877
00:42:20,822 --> 00:42:23,501
Speaker 1: It's a big job. You're annoying. It's a big show.

878
00:42:24,102 --> 00:42:26,022
Speaker 1: Have jobs. It's a big show.

879
00:42:26,462 --> 00:42:29,942
Speaker 3: And I explain in this announcement that I made in

880
00:42:30,062 --> 00:42:32,301
Speaker 3: the No Filter feed why I decided to do it,

881
00:42:32,622 --> 00:42:37,341
Speaker 3: and it basically comes down to I've been piling things

882
00:42:37,382 --> 00:42:41,262
Speaker 3: on my plate for seventeen years since starting this company

883
00:42:41,622 --> 00:42:45,341
Speaker 3: with my husband, and I've finally worked out that if

884
00:42:45,382 --> 00:42:48,862
Speaker 3: I just keep adding more things, it's not possible. So

885
00:42:49,022 --> 00:42:50,862
Speaker 3: I've finally understood how time works.

886
00:42:51,462 --> 00:42:52,062
Speaker 1: That's part of it.

887
00:42:52,181 --> 00:42:54,261
Speaker 3: So to be able to do more things and new things,

888
00:42:54,422 --> 00:42:56,741
Speaker 3: I have to stop doing some of the things I've

889
00:42:56,781 --> 00:43:01,741
Speaker 3: been doing for a long time, and also creatively. As

890
00:43:01,822 --> 00:43:03,582
Speaker 3: much of an honor and a privilege as it is

891
00:43:03,701 --> 00:43:06,142
Speaker 3: to sit in those rooms and have those intense conversations,

892
00:43:06,221 --> 00:43:09,901
Speaker 3: they are intense, and I've done a lot. I've got

893
00:43:10,102 --> 00:43:12,661
Speaker 3: much better at interviewing from when I started my God

894
00:43:12,902 --> 00:43:16,821
Speaker 3: and I've learned so much. Yes, and I'm proud to

895
00:43:16,902 --> 00:43:19,701
Speaker 3: say I'm a really good interviewer now. But I've done that,

896
00:43:20,102 --> 00:43:22,661
Speaker 3: Like the challenge of it isn't there for me anymore,

897
00:43:22,781 --> 00:43:26,022
Speaker 3: even though every interview is obviously different. I've kind of

898
00:43:26,102 --> 00:43:28,861
Speaker 3: done it, so I was ready to hand it over.

899
00:43:29,382 --> 00:43:32,421
Speaker 3: I have persuaded Kate lane Brook to take the mic

900
00:43:32,502 --> 00:43:35,421
Speaker 3: from me on a permanent basis, and she's the new host.

901
00:43:35,502 --> 00:43:37,181
Speaker 1: Her first episode is next week.

902
00:43:37,982 --> 00:43:40,341
Speaker 3: I am the guest because I was easy to book,

903
00:43:41,462 --> 00:43:42,942
Speaker 3: and we're going to go into a little bit more

904
00:43:42,982 --> 00:43:45,102
Speaker 3: about why I decided to leave, and just also me

905
00:43:45,181 --> 00:43:47,301
Speaker 3: interviewing her. It's more of an in conversation really, because

906
00:43:47,342 --> 00:43:50,701
Speaker 3: she's got amazing for that. And funnily enough, we recorded

907
00:43:50,741 --> 00:43:52,342
Speaker 3: this a year ago before it was going to be

908
00:43:52,382 --> 00:43:55,462
Speaker 3: her first episode of her summer hosting thing. Part of

909
00:43:55,502 --> 00:43:57,861
Speaker 3: the reason I've decided to move away from No Field.

910
00:43:57,982 --> 00:43:59,502
Speaker 3: I was in a really bad state.

911
00:43:59,622 --> 00:44:02,661
Speaker 1: Then we recorded the interview, and then when I heard it,

912
00:44:03,022 --> 00:44:04,701
Speaker 1: I was like, I can't.

913
00:44:04,661 --> 00:44:08,062
Speaker 2: You sent it to both few people.

914
00:44:08,261 --> 00:44:08,901
Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys.

915
00:44:09,542 --> 00:44:13,662
Speaker 2: It was one of my favorite interviews. It was so honest,

916
00:44:13,781 --> 00:44:16,382
Speaker 2: it was so insightful. I loved it, and I was

917
00:44:16,582 --> 00:44:18,341
Speaker 2: so I think I even just a few months ago,

918
00:44:18,382 --> 00:44:19,382
Speaker 2: I said, please release that.

919
00:44:19,701 --> 00:44:21,821
Speaker 3: I really upset that we didn't release it anyway. This

920
00:44:21,902 --> 00:44:23,661
Speaker 3: one's just it was a little bit more, you know,

921
00:44:23,862 --> 00:44:27,102
Speaker 3: I was talking from a wound, and now I'm talking

922
00:44:27,542 --> 00:44:29,341
Speaker 3: from a scar, and I hope you'll find this one

923
00:44:29,382 --> 00:44:33,462
Speaker 3: better because I have more perspective and there's kind of

924
00:44:33,542 --> 00:44:36,261
Speaker 3: more resolution, whereas I was really in it at the

925
00:44:36,382 --> 00:44:38,701
Speaker 3: time and it was just a bit of a hot mess.

926
00:44:39,142 --> 00:44:41,942
Speaker 1: So that's both my worst and my best.

927
00:44:42,102 --> 00:44:45,342
Speaker 2: How do you feel right now having actually really this process?

928
00:44:45,502 --> 00:44:47,181
Speaker 3: Now that I can people know about it and I

929
00:44:47,221 --> 00:44:49,261
Speaker 3: can be public, and I've got some lovely messages, and

930
00:44:49,582 --> 00:44:51,902
Speaker 3: it's been lovely looking back at some of the interviews.

931
00:44:52,542 --> 00:44:55,422
Speaker 3: But I interviewed everybody that I wanted to interview. I

932
00:44:55,862 --> 00:44:57,461
Speaker 3: ticked every box that I wanted to tick.

933
00:44:57,701 --> 00:45:01,462
Speaker 1: Is it hard watching someone else hold your baby? It

934
00:45:01,701 --> 00:45:06,142
Speaker 1: is glorious. It is so so glorious.

935
00:45:06,181 --> 00:45:08,742
Speaker 3: There's a word that I learned from someone I interviewed

936
00:45:08,781 --> 00:45:11,782
Speaker 3: on No Filter who was in a thruple Rowan Mangan

937
00:45:12,062 --> 00:45:14,142
Speaker 3: who she's in a thrapple with two other women, and.

938
00:45:14,582 --> 00:45:16,462
Speaker 1: She said, there's a word. It's the opposite of jealousy.

939
00:45:16,462 --> 00:45:21,022
Speaker 3: It's called compersian, where you feel happier from watching someone

940
00:45:21,102 --> 00:45:23,422
Speaker 3: that you love be loved by someone else. And I

941
00:45:23,701 --> 00:45:29,221
Speaker 3: feel so happy watching Kate do such an incredible job.

942
00:45:29,261 --> 00:45:31,821
Speaker 3: I mean, she just happened in those six episodes that

943
00:45:31,902 --> 00:45:36,542
Speaker 3: she did last summer, did the most downloaded episode of

944
00:45:36,661 --> 00:45:38,982
Speaker 3: the year for No Filter, when she interviewed Andy Lee,

945
00:45:39,102 --> 00:45:41,422
Speaker 3: and not a single scaic of me.

946
00:45:42,261 --> 00:45:45,742
Speaker 1: Was jealous or you know, disappointed that it wasn't me competitive.

947
00:45:45,781 --> 00:45:49,102
Speaker 3: It's the opposite, because my biggest challenge in running this

948
00:45:49,221 --> 00:45:51,542
Speaker 3: company is finding people who are better than me and

949
00:45:51,661 --> 00:45:54,902
Speaker 3: smarter than me so I can do less. And you know,

950
00:45:55,342 --> 00:45:58,062
Speaker 3: for me finding her with No Filter, I'm getting emotional.

951
00:45:58,422 --> 00:46:01,262
Speaker 3: It was beautiful and I'm just so feelly happy.

952
00:46:01,661 --> 00:46:03,142
Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to miss you on there, but if

953
00:46:03,181 --> 00:46:07,422
Speaker 1: it's going to be anybody, Kate, thank you. I have

954
00:46:07,622 --> 00:46:10,301
Speaker 1: learned a lot listening to that show. Jesse, what was

955
00:46:10,382 --> 00:46:12,022
Speaker 1: your worst? My worst?

956
00:46:12,342 --> 00:46:14,022
Speaker 2: It's a big one that I've sort of had over

957
00:46:14,062 --> 00:46:17,982
Speaker 2: the summer, which is this crisis of ambition, is how

958
00:46:18,022 --> 00:46:19,781
Speaker 2: I would put it. And at the beginning of the year,

959
00:46:19,781 --> 00:46:22,022
Speaker 2: we've talked about this before I go full Oprah for

960
00:46:22,102 --> 00:46:25,661
Speaker 2: a month and I usually I'm very goal oriented and

961
00:46:25,982 --> 00:46:28,942
Speaker 2: I like knowing what I want and having clear goals

962
00:46:29,022 --> 00:46:31,661
Speaker 2: and I don't have any. I don't have one, and

963
00:46:31,701 --> 00:46:35,542
Speaker 2: I've been trying to find them, and I find it

964
00:46:35,701 --> 00:46:39,982
Speaker 2: very discombobulating. And then my word of the year is creativity.

965
00:46:40,022 --> 00:46:41,582
Speaker 2: And I've sat down and I've gone all right, well,

966
00:46:42,022 --> 00:46:44,342
Speaker 2: come on, what are you going to do? And the

967
00:46:44,462 --> 00:46:46,862
Speaker 2: sensation is like when you're trying to run in a

968
00:46:46,942 --> 00:46:49,142
Speaker 2: dream and you can't run, Like I just feel really

969
00:46:50,142 --> 00:46:53,542
Speaker 2: not like myself in that way, and I feel.

970
00:46:53,382 --> 00:46:56,462
Speaker 3: Like there's an itch that you want to scratch, but

971
00:46:56,542 --> 00:46:58,622
Speaker 3: you don't know what the itch is or could this

972
00:46:58,902 --> 00:47:01,862
Speaker 3: just be for the first time in many years, pretty

973
00:47:01,902 --> 00:47:05,701
Speaker 3: much since I've known you, you're not spread completely thin

974
00:47:06,062 --> 00:47:06,821
Speaker 3: and overwhelmed.

975
00:47:06,942 --> 00:47:07,221
Speaker 1: It's that.

976
00:47:07,422 --> 00:47:12,221
Speaker 2: But to be completely on it, I am experiencing.

977
00:47:11,622 --> 00:47:13,982
Speaker 1: Boredom like I'm unchallenged.

978
00:47:14,221 --> 00:47:17,902
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And I love going to work like I

979
00:47:18,102 --> 00:47:20,221
Speaker 2: love my job more than I have ever loved my job.

980
00:47:20,862 --> 00:47:23,462
Speaker 2: The problem with this job is that it actually does finish,

981
00:47:24,102 --> 00:47:26,821
Speaker 2: so I found it. Even on the weekend, I'm like, Okay,

982
00:47:26,862 --> 00:47:28,582
Speaker 2: well I want to do something. Luna's gone down for

983
00:47:28,661 --> 00:47:30,781
Speaker 2: sleep and I've got a couple of hours I can't

984
00:47:30,822 --> 00:47:31,661
Speaker 2: do out loud.

985
00:47:33,302 --> 00:47:34,381
Speaker 1: Just spuck up the group chat.

986
00:47:34,502 --> 00:47:36,102
Speaker 4: You can't.

987
00:47:36,701 --> 00:47:38,821
Speaker 2: That's a thing about a book or an idea or

988
00:47:39,142 --> 00:47:39,941
Speaker 2: you've always done.

989
00:47:40,142 --> 00:47:40,742
Speaker 1: That's true.

990
00:47:40,942 --> 00:47:44,302
Speaker 2: I've read this thing about how motherhood Like your hands

991
00:47:44,302 --> 00:47:46,582
Speaker 2: are busy, but your mind can be idle. There's a

992
00:47:46,701 --> 00:47:48,622
Speaker 2: lot of time to think, and I don't know what

993
00:47:48,701 --> 00:47:50,142
Speaker 2: I meant to be thinking about. I would like to

994
00:47:50,181 --> 00:47:51,781
Speaker 2: be marinating on something, but I don't have a thing

995
00:47:51,862 --> 00:47:52,342
Speaker 2: to hold on to.

996
00:47:52,502 --> 00:47:53,622
Speaker 1: Are you going to write another book?

997
00:47:53,942 --> 00:47:56,022
Speaker 2: I want you, but I don't like. I kind of

998
00:47:56,342 --> 00:47:59,022
Speaker 2: have an idea. This is a thing, right, is that

999
00:47:59,062 --> 00:48:01,342
Speaker 2: when I go to work, I've designed my life around

1000
00:48:01,382 --> 00:48:05,902
Speaker 2: being incredibly efficient, and I have no guilt around working

1001
00:48:05,982 --> 00:48:09,381
Speaker 2: with a baby. I've no guilt, but I go I'm

1002
00:48:09,382 --> 00:48:11,181
Speaker 2: a efficient and then I go home to her. The

1003
00:48:11,302 --> 00:48:15,701
Speaker 2: problem with creativity and writing is that it's not very efficient.

1004
00:48:16,382 --> 00:48:19,102
Speaker 2: So the idea of sitting there and writing for two

1005
00:48:19,181 --> 00:48:22,622
Speaker 2: hours and taking that time away from lunar and coming

1006
00:48:22,701 --> 00:48:26,421
Speaker 2: up with nothing, I can't justify that. And I'm really

1007
00:48:26,502 --> 00:48:30,622
Speaker 2: struggling with how to explore creativity in a way that

1008
00:48:30,701 --> 00:48:35,781
Speaker 2: doesn't feel incredibly selfish. When it's like I sit down

1009
00:48:35,781 --> 00:48:37,102
Speaker 2: at the computer, I'm like, well, I'm going to write

1010
00:48:37,102 --> 00:48:38,102
Speaker 2: a book. But you know, if I'm going to spend

1011
00:48:38,102 --> 00:48:39,821
Speaker 2: two hundred hours writing a book, it better be an

1012
00:48:39,862 --> 00:48:43,741
Speaker 2: award winning masterpiece. Oh wow, and guess what not how.

1013
00:48:46,102 --> 00:48:47,702
Speaker 1: That Protestant work effort.

1014
00:48:48,502 --> 00:48:49,582
Speaker 2: It's a bad effort.

1015
00:48:49,942 --> 00:48:50,661
Speaker 1: That's interesting.

1016
00:48:50,902 --> 00:48:52,661
Speaker 2: Yeah, so kind of in a weird place of that.

1017
00:48:52,862 --> 00:48:56,542
Speaker 2: But my best is I did an escape room this

1018
00:48:56,701 --> 00:48:59,702
Speaker 2: week with eight friends. We went and I had forgotten

1019
00:48:59,701 --> 00:49:01,981
Speaker 2: about escape rooms. I got really into them like maybe

1020
00:49:02,022 --> 00:49:04,741
Speaker 2: five or six years ago, and then a friend suggested

1021
00:49:04,822 --> 00:49:08,342
Speaker 2: it and it was so fun. And before you go,

1022
00:49:08,462 --> 00:49:10,181
Speaker 2: you're kind of like, oh, can I be bothered? And

1023
00:49:10,261 --> 00:49:12,701
Speaker 2: before we were all going, someone was dating someone new

1024
00:49:12,741 --> 00:49:14,062
Speaker 2: and you're kind of trying to talk, and then you

1025
00:49:14,142 --> 00:49:15,542
Speaker 2: go into the escape room and you're like, well, we

1026
00:49:15,622 --> 00:49:16,462
Speaker 2: can't gossip.

1027
00:49:17,542 --> 00:49:22,182
Speaker 1: I've never done. So they sound like my worst nightment.

1028
00:49:22,302 --> 00:49:22,902
Speaker 1: No no, no, no no.

1029
00:49:23,422 --> 00:49:25,981
Speaker 2: They're very mindful because it's like you don't think about

1030
00:49:26,022 --> 00:49:28,821
Speaker 2: anything else. They take your phone. It's a different part

1031
00:49:28,862 --> 00:49:32,382
Speaker 2: of your brain that you're operating. Everyone's brains work differently,

1032
00:49:32,582 --> 00:49:33,981
Speaker 2: Like it was so fun.

1033
00:49:34,221 --> 00:49:38,382
Speaker 1: Who's the Boss in an Escape Room? US escape leaderboard?

1034
00:49:38,502 --> 00:49:40,781
Speaker 2: We were thrown in and it was a senses It

1035
00:49:40,862 --> 00:49:43,062
Speaker 2: was about your senses, so you had to use all

1036
00:49:43,142 --> 00:49:45,781
Speaker 2: of your senses from smell to sight. There was one

1037
00:49:45,781 --> 00:49:49,301
Speaker 2: where it was completely dark. There was a braille like

1038
00:49:49,502 --> 00:49:50,822
Speaker 2: all of that. It was amazing.

1039
00:49:50,982 --> 00:49:55,301
Speaker 1: Who takes the lead? You are some people are better

1040
00:49:55,382 --> 00:49:57,382
Speaker 1: at those things than others, right, so it would be

1041
00:49:57,661 --> 00:49:59,221
Speaker 1: it must be competitive in there.

1042
00:49:59,502 --> 00:50:01,861
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's like everyone's looking around at different things.

1043
00:50:02,102 --> 00:50:06,822
Speaker 1: So problems treasure hunt, I'm terrible of that kind of yeah, terrible.

1044
00:50:07,022 --> 00:50:08,781
Speaker 2: And there's lots of red herrings. So when we walked in,

1045
00:50:08,822 --> 00:50:11,221
Speaker 2: there was newspaper all over the walls and there were

1046
00:50:11,261 --> 00:50:14,181
Speaker 2: different random letters circled and you had to work out

1047
00:50:14,701 --> 00:50:18,022
Speaker 2: if it was spelling something or whatever. But an additional

1048
00:50:18,261 --> 00:50:20,701
Speaker 2: recommendation is that I was speaking to a friend who

1049
00:50:20,781 --> 00:50:23,342
Speaker 2: has just met someone on a dating app and it

1050
00:50:23,502 --> 00:50:25,622
Speaker 2: is an AI dating app, and I have become obsessed.

1051
00:50:26,022 --> 00:50:29,542
Speaker 2: It is called a Marta Amata and she's been on

1052
00:50:29,622 --> 00:50:32,821
Speaker 2: dating apps for years no luck. She finds this dating

1053
00:50:32,822 --> 00:50:36,261
Speaker 2: app and it's a chatbot and she goes, Hi, I'm

1054
00:50:36,302 --> 00:50:38,421
Speaker 2: looking for someone who blah blah blah, and just gave

1055
00:50:38,462 --> 00:50:41,062
Speaker 2: them all this information and they said you might like Jack,

1056
00:50:41,502 --> 00:50:43,741
Speaker 2: and they say here's Jack. Jack likes this and that

1057
00:50:43,822 --> 00:50:46,301
Speaker 2: and blah, and she goes, yeah, great, looks great. Went

1058
00:50:46,342 --> 00:50:48,661
Speaker 2: on a date with this person and it's just like

1059
00:50:49,221 --> 00:50:52,341
Speaker 2: the best relationship she's had in forever. But people are

1060
00:50:52,382 --> 00:50:55,661
Speaker 2: talking about this dating app because a chatbot takes in

1061
00:50:55,902 --> 00:50:59,422
Speaker 2: all the nuances of what you want, yeah and matches you, and.

1062
00:50:59,582 --> 00:51:01,622
Speaker 1: Like they should do that on maths. There should be

1063
00:51:01,701 --> 00:51:04,781
Speaker 1: the robot that matches the people up. Get Ai to

1064
00:51:04,862 --> 00:51:05,022
Speaker 1: do it.

1065
00:51:05,142 --> 00:51:09,741
Speaker 2: Because all my single friends are saying, hinge Tinder a

1066
00:51:09,781 --> 00:51:13,102
Speaker 2: lot of issues, right, is that it's just they're not

1067
00:51:13,502 --> 00:51:15,622
Speaker 2: succerethful at the moment. But this one, she was just saying,

1068
00:51:15,781 --> 00:51:17,661
Speaker 2: go and try it. So everyone who's single and looking

1069
00:51:17,701 --> 00:51:18,781
Speaker 2: for dating app, try this one.

1070
00:51:18,862 --> 00:51:21,342
Speaker 1: We need to do an episode. We get to respond

1071
00:51:21,382 --> 00:51:23,741
Speaker 1: to Jesse's Cristi of Ambition because I have twenty five

1072
00:51:23,822 --> 00:51:28,382
Speaker 1: pieces of useless advice for you. Oh I'm excited, but

1073
00:51:28,542 --> 00:51:30,221
Speaker 1: we need to do that. We need to do that

1074
00:51:30,342 --> 00:51:31,901
Speaker 1: because we have run out of time.

1075
00:51:33,382 --> 00:51:36,622
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right, exactly. I can update you all on

1076
00:51:36,741 --> 00:51:38,622
Speaker 2: my performance psychologist.

1077
00:51:38,701 --> 00:51:41,861
Speaker 1: Cand wait and share the tips so that we don't

1078
00:51:41,902 --> 00:51:43,821
Speaker 1: have to go see one. That is all we've got

1079
00:51:43,902 --> 00:51:46,142
Speaker 1: time for. Out louder Is on our Friday show, Thank

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00:51:46,181 --> 00:51:48,902
Speaker 1: you for being with us all week. We will be

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00:51:48,982 --> 00:51:50,902
Speaker 1: back in your ears next week. Of course, Jesse and

1082
00:51:50,982 --> 00:51:52,341
Speaker 1: Mia read us out today.

1083
00:51:52,422 --> 00:51:55,661
Speaker 2: A big thank you to our team group executive producer

1084
00:51:55,982 --> 00:52:00,982
Speaker 2: Ruth Devine, executive producer Emiline Gazillis, our audio producer is

1085
00:52:01,062 --> 00:52:04,181
Speaker 2: Leah Porgis, and video producer is Josh Green, and.

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00:52:04,221 --> 00:52:07,661
Speaker 3: A bonus record from our group EP Ruth. She's desperate

1087
00:52:07,741 --> 00:52:10,622
Speaker 3: to tell you about a product she believes makes her

1088
00:52:10,661 --> 00:52:13,181
Speaker 3: look less dead in the morning. Out louder, she says,

1089
00:52:13,342 --> 00:52:16,821
Speaker 3: home home, h O home, I know this brain is

1090
00:52:17,102 --> 00:52:23,782
Speaker 3: home like Katie Holmes, Yeah, Holme beauty. It's a setting spray,

1091
00:52:23,982 --> 00:52:25,862
Speaker 3: and she says it has glow for days.

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00:52:26,302 --> 00:52:26,622
Speaker 1: I heard.

1093
00:52:26,701 --> 00:52:29,942
Speaker 2: I was just googling yesterday about wearing white with makeup,

1094
00:52:29,982 --> 00:52:31,062
Speaker 2: and it was saying that you've got to put a

1095
00:52:31,102 --> 00:52:33,181
Speaker 2: setting spray on because you've told me this, You've got

1096
00:52:33,221 --> 00:52:34,501
Speaker 2: to put hairspray on your color.

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00:52:34,582 --> 00:52:37,381
Speaker 3: So if you're ever wearing white or something light, use

1098
00:52:37,701 --> 00:52:39,741
Speaker 3: hairspray before you put it on. You don't do it

1099
00:52:39,781 --> 00:52:42,261
Speaker 3: when it's on you and leave it for like five

1100
00:52:42,302 --> 00:52:44,261
Speaker 3: seconds or ten seconds to set and then put it

1101
00:52:44,302 --> 00:52:45,821
Speaker 3: on and then your makeup went smudge onto it.

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00:52:46,661 --> 00:52:48,421
Speaker 2: But setting spray is the other top tip. You put

1103
00:52:48,462 --> 00:52:50,942
Speaker 2: it on, it's not going to transfer out louders. If

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00:52:50,982 --> 00:52:53,462
Speaker 2: you're not ready to say goodbye. We thought we'd leave

1105
00:52:53,462 --> 00:52:55,542
Speaker 2: you with a little bit of a conversation we had

1106
00:52:55,701 --> 00:52:59,421
Speaker 2: on a subscriber episode with one of your favorites, Amelia Lester.

1107
00:52:59,701 --> 00:53:03,741
Speaker 2: We were talking about fashion and the tyranny of looking

1108
00:53:03,902 --> 00:53:07,901
Speaker 2: like you haven't tried. I want to start today by

1109
00:53:08,022 --> 00:53:10,821
Speaker 2: asking you both. I should probably say as well. We

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00:53:11,462 --> 00:53:14,462
Speaker 2: have a very special guest on this subscriber episode, Amelia.

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00:53:14,542 --> 00:53:17,301
Speaker 2: Lest you are sitting in hollywain Wright seat.

1112
00:53:17,661 --> 00:53:21,221
Speaker 1: I am. Should I push on a different accent? Don't try?

1113
00:53:21,302 --> 00:53:23,422
Speaker 1: I try for me cringe.

1114
00:53:23,422 --> 00:53:27,982
Speaker 2: Apparently we try often. Hello, Nor, I want to know

1115
00:53:28,701 --> 00:53:32,142
Speaker 2: how do you want to look when you leave the house?

1116
00:53:32,302 --> 00:53:32,542
Speaker 3: Maya?

1117
00:53:32,622 --> 00:53:34,381
Speaker 2: You first? What are you aiming for when you walk

1118
00:53:34,462 --> 00:53:35,582
Speaker 2: out of the house in the morning.

1119
00:53:35,781 --> 00:53:37,622
Speaker 1: How I want to look to the others or how

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00:53:37,661 --> 00:53:39,062
Speaker 1: I want to feel in myself?

1121
00:53:39,701 --> 00:53:41,622
Speaker 2: How you want to look to others? What do you

1122
00:53:41,661 --> 00:53:43,222
Speaker 2: want people to think of what you're wearing?

1123
00:53:43,741 --> 00:53:47,582
Speaker 1: Is Copenhagen? Oh my god? Can I say Copenhagen? I

1124
00:53:47,701 --> 00:53:49,382
Speaker 1: want people to think She's A.

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00:53:49,422 --> 00:53:51,501
Speaker 2: Link to that episode will be in the show notes.

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00:53:52,022 --> 00:53:52,862
Speaker 1: Bye bye.

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00:53:54,142 --> 00:53:57,062
Speaker 2: Shout out to any mum and mea subscribers listening. If

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00:53:57,102 --> 00:53:59,022
Speaker 2: you love the show, and you want to support us,

1129
00:53:59,302 --> 00:54:02,022
Speaker 2: Subscribing to Mom and Maya is the very best way

1130
00:54:02,142 --> 00:54:04,702
Speaker 2: to do so. There's a link in the episode description.

1131
00:54:09,622 --> 00:54:12,022
Speaker 1: Therein s