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Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mea podcast. Mama Mea acknowledges the

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Speaker 1: traditional owners of land and waters. This podcast was recorded

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Speaker 1: on It's a Friday Afternoon in the small Victorian town

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Speaker 1: of Faraday in October nineteen seventy two, and the how

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Speaker 1: withth sisters are excited for the weekend. There's only six

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Speaker 1: students at school today. The other four that make up

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Speaker 1: the cohort at Faraday Primary are off with bad colds.

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Speaker 1: It's chilly and wet outside, so their teacher, Miss Gibbs,

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Speaker 1: has agreed to let them play musical chairs inside. They're

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Speaker 1: having the best time, squealing, laughing, sliding on the floorboards,

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Speaker 1: when suddenly the room goes still. As ten year old

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Speaker 1: Robin turns to the classroom door, she sees two men

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Speaker 1: standing there. One of them's wearing a black covering on

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Speaker 1: his face, the other has dark sunglasses and a hat.

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Speaker 1: The taller man raises an enormous gun, aiming it directly

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Speaker 1: at them. Please not us, Please not us, their teacher says, shaking.

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Speaker 1: She looks terrified. Thanks, Robin, what's going on. School's over

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Speaker 1: for the day. One of the men replies, get in

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Speaker 1: the van now, I'm Jemma Vass and This is True

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Speaker 1: Crime Conversations Amom of Me, a podcast exploring the world's

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Speaker 1: most notorious crimes by speaking to the people who know

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Speaker 1: the most about them. Victorian plasterers and fathers themselves, Edwin

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Speaker 1: John Eastwood twenty one and Robert Clyde Boland, who was

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Speaker 1: in his mid thirties, planned the kidnapping for months. Their

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Speaker 1: crime was described at the time as the gravest situation

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Speaker 1: of its kind in the history of the Victorian police

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Speaker 1: force and Australia's crime of the century. The men had

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Speaker 1: dug a trench in remote bushland where they intended to

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Speaker 1: bury their victims after putting plaster over their mouths and

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Speaker 1: chains around their bodies. The whole was to be covered

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Speaker 1: by galvanized iron and dirt. Thankfully they didn't get that far,

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Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean that what twenty year old primary

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Speaker 1: school teacher Mary Gibbs unto six students endured wasn't terrifying.

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Speaker 1: In her care were Christine Ellery ten, sisters Lindaconn nine

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Speaker 1: and Helen con six, and sisters Denise Haworth five, Gillian

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Speaker 1: Howorth eight and Robin Haworth ten. While the event gained

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Speaker 1: significant media attention at the time, The survivors have largely

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Speaker 1: refrained from telling their stories publicly until now, more than

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Speaker 1: five decades on, Robin has released a book titled Faraday,

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Speaker 1: A Community Rediscovered, in which she details what happened to

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Speaker 1: her and her classmates. She hasn't felt comfortable sharing her

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Speaker 1: story until now. Robin, you published your book on your

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Speaker 1: account of the Faraday kidnapping last year, more than fifty

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Speaker 1: years after it happened. Why now, I suppose.

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Speaker 2: And I didn't realize myself until I started writing. But

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Speaker 2: I carried a grief and a loss all my adult

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Speaker 2: life about Faraday, And as an adult, I was always

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Speaker 2: very reluctant to ever tell anyone where I came from,

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Speaker 2: because whenever anyone mentioned Faraday, it was always in the

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Speaker 2: context of, oh, I remember that, I remember that story.

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Speaker 2: That's a place where those kids were taken. What awful

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Speaker 2: history that place has. You know, every time we drive

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Speaker 2: past the school, which is still standing but it is

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Speaker 2: a home now, I just shudder. And I remember thinking,

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Speaker 2: as I aged, and I hope get more reflective and

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Speaker 2: maybe older and wiser, I always felt really sad about that,

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Speaker 2: because we were so much more than a kidnapping. We

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Speaker 2: were a lovely little community and we loved our school.

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Speaker 2: So I guess probably about fifteen years ago I had

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Speaker 2: returned back to the area, like I had left that

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Speaker 2: area as an eighteen year old, because I went nursing

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Speaker 2: and I left the area I married. I'd changed my name,

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Speaker 2: and I remember thinking when I was living in the

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Speaker 2: Golden Valley area, beautiful part of the world in Victoria,

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Speaker 2: that it would never ever have to tell anyone who

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Speaker 2: I was and where I was from, because all through

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Speaker 2: my adolescence, and I guess late childhood, we were always

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Speaker 2: referred to us. You're one of those girls, aren't you.

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Speaker 2: You're one of those girls, And I realized I was

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Speaker 2: really tired of hearing that. We never ever viewed ourselves

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Speaker 2: as victims. Never the press at the time certainly sensationalize

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Speaker 2: the story, and we're not particularly kind or respectful.

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Speaker 3: And that's a memory of a child when I look back.

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Speaker 2: The school closed after the kidnapping, But when I was

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Speaker 2: writing the book and reflecting, I thought, oh, gosh, mum,

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Speaker 2: you know three young mums with top two with toddlers

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Speaker 2: turning up on that Friday afternoon to collect their children.

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Speaker 2: School's empty they wait, and then they go into the

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Speaker 2: school and then they search the school grounds nothing, eerie silence.

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Speaker 2: They cross over to a pine plantation opposite, they search there, nothing,

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Speaker 2: and then they go in and eventually find a ransom

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Speaker 2: note threatening the annihilation of every hostage if a ransom

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Speaker 2: of a million dollars wasn't paid. And myself into little

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Speaker 2: sisters were part of that actual crime. So mum had

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Speaker 2: three daughters, So for Mum, the trauma was really really deep.

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Speaker 2: She kept every scrap book, every press article for years,

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Speaker 2: and the police crime photos, and she had given it

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Speaker 2: to me, and I realized I had a treasure trove

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Speaker 2: of information. So I decided, well, I was going to

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Speaker 2: try and put something together. And then as I sort

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Speaker 2: of started writing it, Jamal, I thought, oh, I think

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Speaker 2: it's actually a little bit bigger than just our family.

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Speaker 1: All the quick Google tells me that the population of

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Speaker 1: Faraday in twenty sixteen was one hundred and fifty eight people.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, was that many?

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Speaker 1: I was going to ask, is that a lot? What

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Speaker 1: was it when you lived there?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think that is is a lot.

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Speaker 2: I look, I would be guessing that I would think

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Speaker 2: in nine seventy two we'd be lucky to have fifty

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Speaker 2: to eighty. In nineteen seventy two, we had ten students

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Speaker 2: at Faraday.

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Speaker 3: That was huge, huge.

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Speaker 2: Normally we only had you know, seven, and there was

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Speaker 2: I think five families and we had two, you know,

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Speaker 2: families that had moved in who weren't the traditional farming

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Speaker 2: families that have been there for generations. So we were

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Speaker 2: so excited.

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Speaker 3: Ten students ten How does that work?

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Speaker 1: How does ten students in one school with one teacher work?

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Speaker 2: In reflection, I think it must have been very difficult,

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Speaker 2: but it did. You know, you had the older students

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Speaker 2: at the back that the younger students at the front

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Speaker 2: or being given you know.

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Speaker 3: The appropriate work for the year level.

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Speaker 2: But certainly joining a netball team or something was a

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Speaker 2: bit tricky, wasn't it.

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Speaker 3: Really?

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Speaker 2: Jimmy writing this book which has been just amazing, amazing,

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Speaker 2: and the response has just been so overwhelming and humbling

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Speaker 2: that so many people who come to the author talks

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Speaker 2: or want to share their experience of the one teacher

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Speaker 2: school and apparently I capture that era.

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Speaker 3: Very very well. So having said that was a.

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Speaker 2: Very safe, secure space. But I guess not a lot

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Speaker 2: of outside influence either, because.

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Speaker 1: Take me back to your life in the seventies. You

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Speaker 1: said you were a farming family. You're also quite isolated.

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Speaker 1: You didn't really leave the farm. You talk a lot

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Speaker 1: about really wanting to go on holiday to the beach,

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Speaker 1: but you couldn't because your dad couldn't leave the cows.

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Speaker 1: A picture of what it was like growing up in

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Speaker 1: Faraday in the seventies.

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Speaker 3: We were quite poor.

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Speaker 2: Like I said, there wasn't a lot of a lot

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Speaker 2: of money, but it was you know, I reflect back,

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Speaker 2: it was a time of great ritual and routine, and

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Speaker 2: so like every Thursday, you know, so the furthest we

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Speaker 2: ever went is we went into Castlemaine and we would

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Speaker 2: take Grandma Howard, who lived in the farmhouse next to us,

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Speaker 2: shopping every Thursday.

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Speaker 3: And our grandma didn't.

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Speaker 2: Drive, of course, so she would always come over the

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Speaker 2: paddock in that dusty track, dressed in a hat and

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Speaker 2: gloves and shoes and stockings and matching handbag and beads,

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Speaker 2: even in forty degree heat, to walk up and down

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Speaker 2: the main street of Mouston Street, nodding and smiling to

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Speaker 2: all the other ladies had come in off their farms.

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Speaker 2: But you know, we kind of knew everyone and were

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Speaker 2: probably related or connected to many. Someday was very much

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Speaker 2: you know, that traditional roast lamb and steamed ginger pudding,

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Speaker 2: and we would go and visit our grandparents in Bendigo, and.

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Speaker 3: That's probably as far as.

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Speaker 2: We went, you know. We would spend time with our cousins.

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Speaker 2: But our school was really important to us because that

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Speaker 2: was essentially the harbor of the community because we didn't

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Speaker 2: have a hall, so gatherings and not that they were

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Speaker 2: huge on my dad, but any gatherings were held at

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Speaker 2: the school, so it was a really important place for

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Speaker 2: us to be.

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Speaker 1: So in nineteen seventy two, the teacher was Mary Gibbs.

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Speaker 1: She was only twenty years old. What was her story?

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Speaker 1: Why was she coming to Faraday?

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Speaker 2: I would imagine back then they had to apply for

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Speaker 2: several schools. Look, I don't know, and obviously Faraday was

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Speaker 2: allocated to her. But I do chuckle to myself now

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Speaker 2: because I have very vivid memories because miss Mary Gibbs

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Speaker 2: was very.

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Speaker 3: Stylish, very stylish with.

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Speaker 2: Lovely outfits, you know, and it was that erea of

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Speaker 2: the seventies, the boots, the short skirts, and I always

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Speaker 2: remember the mums, you know, gathering at the school gates

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Speaker 2: or after, you know, I wonder what she's going to

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Speaker 2: be wearing today, and the father's we're just horrified because

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Speaker 2: this young woman would be driving backwards and forwards from

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Speaker 2: Bendigo to Faraday, which is probably about thirty minutes, maybe

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Speaker 2: back then was forty five minutes because the roads are pretty.

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Speaker 3: Awful and the car's not as good.

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Speaker 2: But they were really worried that she would have to

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Speaker 2: have a chaperone I'm back with her, because it would

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Speaker 2: just be too much.

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Speaker 3: Gosh.

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Speaker 1: I mean, at least they were concerned for her welfare.

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Speaker 2: And they were trying to think about, you know, local

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Speaker 2: accommodation for her, just you know, to help her, you know.

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Speaker 2: So I thought, oh, what a different what a different world.

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Speaker 1: So in the September of nineteen seventy two, your sister

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Speaker 1: started noticing a couple of men kind of watching the school.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell me about that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, and I suppose it's the sister guilt I

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Speaker 2: sort of carried too, because she did. She was noticing,

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Speaker 2: you know, and she mentioned it to me a couple

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Speaker 2: of times. Did you see those men today in the creek?

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Speaker 2: And being the big sister, I kind of dismissed it

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Speaker 2: because my head was full of you know, we had

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Speaker 2: to practice for the school sports that was coming up,

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Speaker 2: and the Customane show was happening, so there was a

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Speaker 2: lot of things on. But she did keep mentioning, did

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Speaker 2: you see those men today? And I didn't, but it

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Speaker 2: was only you know, of course, after the crime was committed,

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Speaker 2: that they had actually staked out the school and were

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Speaker 2: well aware that there was a young female teacher and

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Speaker 2: how many students there were, and you sort of look back,

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Speaker 2: and that does give you the shivers to think that

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Speaker 2: they would do that, or that they did that.

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Speaker 1: What do you remember of the morning of Friday, October

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Speaker 1: seventh in nineteen seventy two.

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Speaker 2: Look, I remember that well because it was a really

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Speaker 2: cold morning, which was unseasonable. Mama's passed away now, but

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Speaker 2: she was a very good mum. So she's trying to,

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Speaker 2: you know, drag us all out of bed because it's

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Speaker 2: freezing cold, and you know, we're having our corn plates

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Speaker 2: and our toast, and we used to often cook the

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Speaker 2: toast on the open fire. And I remember having a big,

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Speaker 2: well not a big argument, but you know, Muma said no, no,

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Speaker 2: you're going to need long pants and jumpers today, so

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Speaker 2: that little sisters all went and obediently put on what

218
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Speaker 2: she'd put on, but I of course didn't and went

219
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Speaker 2: to the wardrobe and got the most inappropriate summer dress

220
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Speaker 2: I could find a car, and I really later that

221
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Speaker 2: day I remember thinking, oh, wish I had listened to

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Speaker 2: Mum and it was many. It was just really a

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Speaker 2: very typical morning. There was nothing different except probably I

224
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Speaker 2: had driven Mum demented with my dress choice.

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Speaker 1: So around the time that this all happened, you were

226
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Speaker 1: saying it was a bit of a cold day, it

227
00:14:19,622 --> 00:14:22,862
Speaker 1: was starting to rain, and instead of pee out in

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Speaker 1: the yard like you normally would, you were inside and

229
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Speaker 1: your teacher was playing musical chairs with you.

230
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Speaker 3: Yeah, well we had gone.

231
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was I think we were meant to have

232
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Speaker 2: pe outside, but it was miserable and October, which is

233
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Speaker 2: a bit unusual in Tourient October. But yes we were

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Speaker 2: which was really probably one of our favorite, most favorite

235
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Speaker 2: things we liked to do.

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Speaker 3: We were really having fun.

237
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Speaker 1: When did it change?

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Speaker 3: What?

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Speaker 1: How did you notice the men and what did they

240
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Speaker 1: do When they first came into the room, They.

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Speaker 2: Were just really still for start, you know, they were

242
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Speaker 2: very still, and I guess, you know, in the nightmares

243
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Speaker 2: later on, like they were like mom's giants looming, But

244
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Speaker 2: I guess still, and we were really taken aback because

245
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Speaker 2: remembering a little small girl school, we didn't really have

246
00:15:16,622 --> 00:15:23,222
Speaker 2: visitors to the school, and you know, they looked a

247
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Speaker 2: little ten year old girl probably couldn't process it properly,

248
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Speaker 2: but you would have to say sinister.

249
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Speaker 1: Well, at least one of them had kind of a

250
00:15:30,702 --> 00:15:31,582
Speaker 1: balaclava on.

251
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Speaker 2: The balaclava and the other was in some sort of

252
00:15:36,422 --> 00:15:42,662
Speaker 2: wig and hat pulled down and sunglasses, and the little

253
00:15:42,662 --> 00:15:47,662
Speaker 2: girl does remember thinking, why would you wear sunglasses inside?

254
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Speaker 2: That's an odd thing to do, And she remembers very

255
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Speaker 2: clearly thinking because it was because it was Edward Johnny's

256
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Speaker 2: was in the balaclava, and it was Robert Clyde Boland

257
00:16:02,822 --> 00:16:07,502
Speaker 2: with a bag and in the wig and sunglasses and hat.

258
00:16:07,622 --> 00:16:10,382
Speaker 2: But Edward Johnny's but had a twenty two gage draftle

259
00:16:10,662 --> 00:16:15,982
Speaker 2: that he was waving around and aiming, aiming at children.

260
00:16:17,102 --> 00:16:21,582
Speaker 2: And the little girl remembers thinking, wait till I get

261
00:16:21,622 --> 00:16:25,462
Speaker 2: home and tell dad he is going to be so wild.

262
00:16:25,982 --> 00:16:29,742
Speaker 2: Because of course a farming family, we had guns, but

263
00:16:29,822 --> 00:16:32,222
Speaker 2: we were never to touch the gun. It was always

264
00:16:32,302 --> 00:16:35,702
Speaker 2: unloaded in a porch with the bullets well away from it,

265
00:16:36,502 --> 00:16:41,782
Speaker 2: and the little one remembers thinking that man's dad must

266
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Speaker 2: have never told him how to manage a gun.

267
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Speaker 3: Because someone could get shocked with what he's doing. You know.

268
00:16:48,822 --> 00:16:52,022
Speaker 3: It was that very innocent view of life.

269
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Speaker 1: Yeah, were you scared when you saw them at first?

270
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Speaker 2: I think we were, yes, But it was possibly it

271
00:17:03,342 --> 00:17:06,182
Speaker 2: was a little bit as if time had stood still

272
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Speaker 2: and it was bewilderment.

273
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Speaker 3: I think.

274
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Speaker 1: You're listening to true crime conversations with me, Jemma Bath.

275
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Speaker 1: I'm speaking with Robin Howorth about the day she was

276
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Speaker 1: kidnapped from the Faraday State School in nineteen seventy two.

277
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Speaker 1: Up next, Robin describes how she felt being driven in

278
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Speaker 1: the van by the men who would kidnapped her, not

279
00:17:28,462 --> 00:17:34,862
Speaker 1: knowing where they were being taken. What did the next

280
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Speaker 1: ten to fifteen minutes look like, because it really only

281
00:17:38,342 --> 00:17:41,302
Speaker 1: took that amount of time to kind of get you

282
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Speaker 1: guys from a classroom into a van and on the road.

283
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it took you fifteen minutes or something

284
00:17:46,902 --> 00:17:50,262
Speaker 2: to kidnap the whole school. And also remembering we were

285
00:17:50,302 --> 00:17:54,822
Speaker 2: good little country kids, so you know, probably quite bewildered.

286
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Speaker 2: It would have been so much worse for Mary Gibbs

287
00:17:59,382 --> 00:18:02,102
Speaker 2: because she would have had a lot more awareness of

288
00:18:02,142 --> 00:18:06,382
Speaker 2: what was happening. But you know, they've actually charged in

289
00:18:06,542 --> 00:18:09,822
Speaker 2: and you know, gun waving and sit on the seat

290
00:18:10,102 --> 00:18:14,542
Speaker 2: and you're quite puzzled. And then we were virtually marched

291
00:18:14,582 --> 00:18:18,342
Speaker 2: out and loaded into the van with Eastwood, and I

292
00:18:18,342 --> 00:18:20,302
Speaker 2: remember thinking, well.

293
00:18:20,502 --> 00:18:24,582
Speaker 3: I don't want to go with him, but what was

294
00:18:25,582 --> 00:18:26,422
Speaker 3: the option?

295
00:18:26,582 --> 00:18:30,982
Speaker 2: And the teacher had remained very calm, which was amazing,

296
00:18:31,062 --> 00:18:33,382
Speaker 2: but you know, so no, you know, we need to

297
00:18:34,142 --> 00:18:37,702
Speaker 2: go out, but she remained back. She didn't come into

298
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Speaker 2: the van till later. So we were there just with

299
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Speaker 2: Edward John Eastwood, who we thought was quite nutty.

300
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Speaker 1: Really well, you actually spoke to him, didn't you. As

301
00:18:48,302 --> 00:18:51,342
Speaker 1: he was kind of loading you into the van. You

302
00:18:51,342 --> 00:18:52,502
Speaker 1: asked him a question.

303
00:18:54,462 --> 00:18:58,302
Speaker 2: Because I had, and my school friends will tell me

304
00:18:58,342 --> 00:18:59,982
Speaker 2: they did this too, so it makes me feel a

305
00:18:59,982 --> 00:19:03,382
Speaker 2: lot better. I'd often snake out at night and watched

306
00:19:03,742 --> 00:19:06,382
Speaker 2: Homicide and D twenty five, so I thought I was

307
00:19:06,422 --> 00:19:09,142
Speaker 2: a bit of an expert on crime shows. I remember

308
00:19:09,262 --> 00:19:12,542
Speaker 2: saying to him, You're not going to murderous, are you?

309
00:19:12,542 --> 00:19:16,142
Speaker 3: You know? Robbing us would be okay, but not murder.

310
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Speaker 2: And then you know, he looked at me, so I

311
00:19:18,382 --> 00:19:22,102
Speaker 2: was a little insect on the floor. But then I

312
00:19:22,182 --> 00:19:25,702
Speaker 2: remember thinking they wouldn't rob us because we've got nothing

313
00:19:26,102 --> 00:19:26,982
Speaker 2: that they could take.

314
00:19:27,542 --> 00:19:29,942
Speaker 1: What did the back of the van look like?

315
00:19:30,822 --> 00:19:33,382
Speaker 2: It was just it was virtually empty. I think there

316
00:19:33,422 --> 00:19:39,142
Speaker 2: was yeah, yellow petrol tin up the front. It smelt

317
00:19:39,182 --> 00:19:42,902
Speaker 2: of petrol smelt, you know. It was just very basic

318
00:19:42,982 --> 00:19:46,662
Speaker 2: and we sat on the wheel, sort of lining seats

319
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Speaker 2: each side.

320
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Speaker 3: Very basic, empty.

321
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Speaker 1: And did they say anything else before they drove off?

322
00:19:54,902 --> 00:19:58,502
Speaker 1: They threw your teacher in with you and basically just

323
00:19:59,142 --> 00:19:59,742
Speaker 1: hit the road.

324
00:20:00,422 --> 00:20:04,342
Speaker 2: I think Robert Kyle Bollen said something like, you need

325
00:20:04,382 --> 00:20:07,582
Speaker 2: to be really careful. Eastwood must have got out some stage.

326
00:20:07,582 --> 00:20:10,222
Speaker 2: You need to be really careful of him. They all,

327
00:20:10,422 --> 00:20:13,382
Speaker 2: we're trying to play the good cop, bad cop sort

328
00:20:13,382 --> 00:20:14,742
Speaker 2: of routine.

329
00:20:15,062 --> 00:20:16,862
Speaker 1: So one of them drove the van and then the

330
00:20:16,902 --> 00:20:20,822
Speaker 1: other was in the back with you. Yes, correct, And

331
00:20:20,862 --> 00:20:22,662
Speaker 1: that was Eastwood, the one that you thought was a

332
00:20:22,662 --> 00:20:24,542
Speaker 1: bit crazy who was kind of in the back with you.

333
00:20:25,142 --> 00:20:28,102
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was only twenty one at the time.

334
00:20:28,422 --> 00:20:32,622
Speaker 1: What was the trip like? Was he talking to you

335
00:20:32,782 --> 00:20:35,422
Speaker 1: or was he talking to Mary what was happening in

336
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Speaker 1: the back.

337
00:20:36,342 --> 00:20:40,462
Speaker 2: He talked all the time, Really, he talked all the time,

338
00:20:41,022 --> 00:20:43,422
Speaker 2: and in the end we were trying not to make

339
00:20:43,542 --> 00:20:45,782
Speaker 2: any eye and I think I wrote him the book

340
00:20:45,822 --> 00:20:48,382
Speaker 2: that or Miss Gibbs got the Short Store, because she

341
00:20:48,502 --> 00:20:50,582
Speaker 2: was sitting quite close to him, and it was almost

342
00:20:50,662 --> 00:20:53,662
Speaker 2: like he was trying to impress her, that he talked

343
00:20:53,702 --> 00:20:56,182
Speaker 2: and talked and talked, and I remember in the end

344
00:20:56,222 --> 00:20:59,022
Speaker 2: we all just kind of, oh, well, this is my

345
00:20:59,142 --> 00:21:02,582
Speaker 2: I remember, no eye contact, and just trying to peer

346
00:21:02,622 --> 00:21:04,942
Speaker 2: out of the little holes in the van to see

347
00:21:04,942 --> 00:21:08,382
Speaker 2: where we were actually going. More so so we could

348
00:21:08,462 --> 00:21:12,582
Speaker 2: avoid talking to him, because you certainly got the sense

349
00:21:12,622 --> 00:21:16,062
Speaker 2: he wasn't really interested in talking to children. It was

350
00:21:16,142 --> 00:21:19,422
Speaker 2: more he was trying to impress probably a very attractive

351
00:21:19,462 --> 00:21:21,062
Speaker 2: twenty year old young lady.

352
00:21:21,862 --> 00:21:23,582
Speaker 1: He was talking to you about the fact that you

353
00:21:23,622 --> 00:21:24,822
Speaker 1: were going to be in the newspaper.

354
00:21:25,342 --> 00:21:28,822
Speaker 2: Yes, that we were going to be famous, and they

355
00:21:28,942 --> 00:21:31,582
Speaker 2: put us on the map. And then I think he

356
00:21:31,662 --> 00:21:34,502
Speaker 2: had said to Miss Gibbs Mary at some stage that

357
00:21:34,622 --> 00:21:38,582
Speaker 2: he'd send us some money in the mail. All this grandiose,

358
00:21:38,902 --> 00:21:41,582
Speaker 2: you know, and of course our world was so small,

359
00:21:41,662 --> 00:21:45,542
Speaker 2: so we were thinking, well, maybe we'll get a paragraph

360
00:21:45,582 --> 00:21:50,342
Speaker 2: in the Castlemaine Mail, like that's our local local newspaper,

361
00:21:51,542 --> 00:21:56,142
Speaker 2: you know, and you know, thinking well, why would we.

362
00:21:56,222 --> 00:21:58,022
Speaker 3: Be in the paper? You know?

363
00:21:58,142 --> 00:22:00,382
Speaker 2: And I remember, you know, the little girl, remember thinking

364
00:22:00,582 --> 00:22:02,662
Speaker 2: he is seriously crazy, this man.

365
00:22:02,942 --> 00:22:05,222
Speaker 3: Why would he think we would be in the paper?

366
00:22:05,542 --> 00:22:07,622
Speaker 1: Yeah, you said he had a gun? Did he have

367
00:22:07,982 --> 00:22:10,382
Speaker 1: any other weapons? Could you see anything else that looked

368
00:22:11,182 --> 00:22:11,902
Speaker 1: a bit sinister?

369
00:22:12,742 --> 00:22:12,982
Speaker 3: Yeah?

370
00:22:13,062 --> 00:22:17,942
Speaker 2: It was like, you know, just a carry on bag,

371
00:22:18,302 --> 00:22:22,062
Speaker 2: very nondescript, but it was full of chains and I

372
00:22:22,302 --> 00:22:27,022
Speaker 2: believe a knife because and this is really horrific, that

373
00:22:27,062 --> 00:22:30,422
Speaker 2: they had dug a trench out at Landsfield and they

374
00:22:30,502 --> 00:22:34,542
Speaker 2: had planned they had planned to put us in their

375
00:22:35,062 --> 00:22:40,382
Speaker 2: chained up with plaster tapes or something over a mouse.

376
00:22:40,422 --> 00:22:43,302
Speaker 2: Now I don't know this, I can't know this, but

377
00:22:45,542 --> 00:22:47,702
Speaker 2: I kind of always lied to have thought that they

378
00:22:47,702 --> 00:22:49,822
Speaker 2: couldn't go through with it, because I think if they

379
00:22:49,862 --> 00:22:52,022
Speaker 2: did that, there's no way we would have survived it.

380
00:22:52,542 --> 00:22:55,622
Speaker 1: Do you remember how you felt on that trip, because

381
00:22:55,622 --> 00:22:57,182
Speaker 1: it was a couple of hours, wasn't it.

382
00:22:57,822 --> 00:23:03,702
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well it felt it actually was uncomfortable, saw bottoms

383
00:23:04,382 --> 00:23:09,942
Speaker 2: bumping up and down. Scared, but also remembering too general

384
00:23:10,542 --> 00:23:16,782
Speaker 2: was almost incomprehensible really to make sense of something that

385
00:23:17,582 --> 00:23:19,542
Speaker 2: you really couldn't make sense of.

386
00:23:19,742 --> 00:23:22,142
Speaker 1: Well you were only ten and you were the oldest.

387
00:23:23,062 --> 00:23:25,342
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, So it's six.

388
00:23:25,742 --> 00:23:31,822
Speaker 1: Really small girls from an isolated community experiencing something that

389
00:23:31,982 --> 00:23:37,462
Speaker 1: is just, you know, very confusing, very strange. I can

390
00:23:37,542 --> 00:23:39,462
Speaker 1: imagine that getting the concept.

391
00:23:40,022 --> 00:23:44,622
Speaker 2: I think too though, because and I get this view

392
00:23:44,702 --> 00:23:47,222
Speaker 2: has really crystallized sense i' written the book because.

393
00:23:46,902 --> 00:23:48,622
Speaker 3: We were from a rural community.

394
00:23:49,982 --> 00:23:55,142
Speaker 2: We had been dearly loved, dearly looked after all our childhood.

395
00:23:55,342 --> 00:23:57,662
Speaker 3: So we were also good little.

396
00:23:57,382 --> 00:24:01,822
Speaker 2: Country kids and we did you know, none of us

397
00:24:02,582 --> 00:24:06,782
Speaker 2: had had a complete melt and that's an all kudos

398
00:24:06,902 --> 00:24:10,542
Speaker 2: to Mary Gibbs. None of us had a complete meltdown

399
00:24:10,702 --> 00:24:13,062
Speaker 2: because she didn't. But I guess we were used to,

400
00:24:13,182 --> 00:24:15,662
Speaker 2: you know, this is what we're doing that you know,

401
00:24:15,942 --> 00:24:20,022
Speaker 2: there was none of us would have been about the

402
00:24:20,142 --> 00:24:24,182
Speaker 2: little girls that would be arguing or.

403
00:24:23,862 --> 00:24:26,262
Speaker 3: You know, we just we did what we needed to

404
00:24:26,302 --> 00:24:27,662
Speaker 3: do to survive it.

405
00:24:27,742 --> 00:24:31,302
Speaker 1: I think there was one moment where Mary kind of

406
00:24:31,342 --> 00:24:34,302
Speaker 1: faltered a bit and she did start crying. Do you

407
00:24:34,302 --> 00:24:39,742
Speaker 1: remember that because Eastwood whispered to her and in hindsight,

408
00:24:39,782 --> 00:24:42,502
Speaker 1: you now know that he was telling her about the trench.

409
00:24:43,942 --> 00:24:48,102
Speaker 1: But in that moment she kind of that stoic, strong

410
00:24:48,302 --> 00:24:51,022
Speaker 1: facade that she was putting on kind of crumbled, didn't it.

411
00:24:52,662 --> 00:24:55,582
Speaker 2: But then I remember too, you know, he sort of

412
00:24:55,662 --> 00:24:58,102
Speaker 2: reached over in too. No, no, no, no, you've got

413
00:24:58,102 --> 00:24:58,702
Speaker 2: to think of them.

414
00:24:59,462 --> 00:25:03,102
Speaker 1: Oh, but it's your plan. So he was telling her

415
00:25:03,142 --> 00:25:05,542
Speaker 1: to be strong even though he was threatening her.

416
00:25:06,062 --> 00:25:10,622
Speaker 2: Yes, that probably goes to his mindset too, really all

417
00:25:10,662 --> 00:25:12,182
Speaker 2: over all over the shop.

418
00:25:12,302 --> 00:25:16,622
Speaker 1: Really, tell me about the money he stole from Mary

419
00:25:16,862 --> 00:25:18,182
Speaker 1: and how shocked you were by that?

420
00:25:19,542 --> 00:25:23,622
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and we was, you know, it was so

421
00:25:24,662 --> 00:25:26,262
Speaker 2: offended and upset for her.

422
00:25:26,382 --> 00:25:30,222
Speaker 3: He wanted to see her license because.

423
00:25:29,822 --> 00:25:32,262
Speaker 2: We didn't know that at the time, but he had

424
00:25:32,262 --> 00:25:34,622
Speaker 2: a plan of how he was going to collect the

425
00:25:34,702 --> 00:25:37,822
Speaker 2: ransom off the state government, so he wanted her license

426
00:25:37,902 --> 00:25:41,582
Speaker 2: to prove that he had. So she gave it to us,

427
00:25:41,582 --> 00:25:43,502
Speaker 2: and then he said, what have you got any cash?

428
00:25:43,742 --> 00:25:48,782
Speaker 2: And she said, well, nine dollars and gave him and

429
00:25:48,902 --> 00:25:52,022
Speaker 2: you know he's holding her his hand apt for the money,

430
00:25:52,062 --> 00:25:55,262
Speaker 2: and we're looking at each other in horror, going, he's

431
00:25:55,342 --> 00:25:58,622
Speaker 2: just stolen nine dollars from that teacher, he's a thief

432
00:25:59,222 --> 00:26:02,422
Speaker 2: and she but she had another you know, twenty six

433
00:26:02,542 --> 00:26:04,982
Speaker 2: dollars hidden somewhere else that she didn't give him an

434
00:26:05,542 --> 00:26:08,662
Speaker 2: oh after, you know, we learned that not at the time,

435
00:26:08,742 --> 00:26:11,422
Speaker 2: and I always remember my dad saying, oh.

436
00:26:11,382 --> 00:26:12,942
Speaker 3: Good on her, good on her.

437
00:26:14,782 --> 00:26:17,462
Speaker 1: So they drove you to kind of a remote area

438
00:26:18,662 --> 00:26:23,222
Speaker 1: near Lancefield. What was it like there? Like when he

439
00:26:24,142 --> 00:26:26,742
Speaker 1: stopped the van and they opened the back doors and

440
00:26:26,822 --> 00:26:28,902
Speaker 1: let you out to you know, have a wee. He'd

441
00:26:28,942 --> 00:26:31,182
Speaker 1: been traveling for a few hours. What did you see?

442
00:26:31,222 --> 00:26:31,862
Speaker 1: What was it like?

443
00:26:32,862 --> 00:26:33,782
Speaker 3: It was?

444
00:26:33,822 --> 00:26:39,102
Speaker 2: You know, it was very remembering it and I in

445
00:26:39,142 --> 00:26:43,262
Speaker 2: my mind I've probably recreated it more than what it was.

446
00:26:43,822 --> 00:26:48,502
Speaker 3: But it was miserable, very overcast. It was really thick.

447
00:26:49,782 --> 00:26:53,142
Speaker 2: Bushland. It was an area of course we didn't know,

448
00:26:53,942 --> 00:26:56,822
Speaker 2: We didn't know where we were. The thought of escaping

449
00:26:58,862 --> 00:27:00,942
Speaker 2: didn't even I think it was certainly it didn't occur

450
00:27:00,942 --> 00:27:04,342
Speaker 2: to me because where we have gone it was a

451
00:27:04,382 --> 00:27:08,982
Speaker 2: frightening place actually, And Lancefield is a beautiful part in

452
00:27:09,102 --> 00:27:10,382
Speaker 2: rural Victoria.

453
00:27:10,582 --> 00:27:11,302
Speaker 3: It's beautiful.

454
00:27:11,342 --> 00:27:13,782
Speaker 2: But I do write in my book as a maternal

455
00:27:13,782 --> 00:27:16,462
Speaker 2: and child health news I have done some work down

456
00:27:16,502 --> 00:27:19,662
Speaker 2: there and it's a beautiful community, it's a beautiful area.

457
00:27:21,262 --> 00:27:23,862
Speaker 2: But I remembered, you know, with maternal and child health,

458
00:27:23,902 --> 00:27:27,142
Speaker 2: people always do a home visit after a family has

459
00:27:27,142 --> 00:27:29,262
Speaker 2: a little baby, And if I ever had a visit

460
00:27:29,302 --> 00:27:34,142
Speaker 2: booked at Lansfield, my heart would just think going back

461
00:27:34,182 --> 00:27:38,822
Speaker 2: to Lancefield. And I realized why that was, because my

462
00:27:38,982 --> 00:27:42,302
Speaker 2: memory of it was it was a frightening a frightening place.

463
00:27:42,822 --> 00:27:45,982
Speaker 1: Really, Well, what did that afternoon look like for you

464
00:27:46,022 --> 00:27:48,262
Speaker 1: and the other kids, because it was, you know, three

465
00:27:48,262 --> 00:27:50,982
Speaker 1: point thirty four o'clock you arrived. What did you do?

466
00:27:51,902 --> 00:27:52,862
Speaker 3: Ah?

467
00:27:52,902 --> 00:27:55,462
Speaker 2: Well, you know, first of all, we know scamped around

468
00:27:55,542 --> 00:27:58,622
Speaker 2: and had a way, and then I think we sort

469
00:27:58,622 --> 00:28:01,742
Speaker 2: of stood around, and then you know, we had this

470
00:28:02,022 --> 00:28:07,262
Speaker 2: treasure hunt that we thought was hideous because that stage

471
00:28:07,302 --> 00:28:10,862
Speaker 2: Eastwood had left to organize the rants and so we

472
00:28:10,862 --> 00:28:14,422
Speaker 2: were only being guarded by Boland. So I guess too,

473
00:28:14,622 --> 00:28:17,222
Speaker 2: you were sort of thinking, oh, that's good, one's gone.

474
00:28:17,262 --> 00:28:20,902
Speaker 2: I've only got one here. And he didn't talk as much,

475
00:28:21,622 --> 00:28:25,062
Speaker 2: so that was a good thing. But it was miserable, really,

476
00:28:25,102 --> 00:28:27,102
Speaker 2: it was just miserable. And then he locked us back

477
00:28:27,142 --> 00:28:30,742
Speaker 2: in the van, which I guess was a relief really.

478
00:28:31,142 --> 00:28:34,582
Speaker 1: When did your families realize you were missing?

479
00:28:35,302 --> 00:28:38,102
Speaker 2: Probably about you know, three point thirty four when they

480
00:28:38,342 --> 00:28:40,902
Speaker 2: went to collect you know, when the mums went to

481
00:28:40,982 --> 00:28:43,622
Speaker 2: collect us and they found the ransom note.

482
00:28:43,662 --> 00:28:45,382
Speaker 3: So it was on that Friday.

483
00:28:45,742 --> 00:28:48,502
Speaker 1: And what did the ransom notes say? Not everything, but

484
00:28:48,542 --> 00:28:51,822
Speaker 1: there was particular phrases in there that really kind of

485
00:28:51,862 --> 00:28:53,662
Speaker 1: affected your mum and the other mums.

486
00:28:54,622 --> 00:28:57,662
Speaker 2: Oh, yes, it was virtually you know, that we had

487
00:28:57,662 --> 00:29:01,542
Speaker 2: been kidnapped and they were demanding a million dollars from

488
00:29:01,582 --> 00:29:05,342
Speaker 2: the state government and if their demands weren't met, it

489
00:29:05,382 --> 00:29:08,262
Speaker 2: would result in the annihilation of all the hostages.

490
00:29:08,742 --> 00:29:12,662
Speaker 1: Annihilation. Yeah, how did your mum feel reading that?

491
00:29:13,062 --> 00:29:19,982
Speaker 2: Apparently they had decided to loosely base the crime on

492
00:29:20,022 --> 00:29:23,942
Speaker 2: the Clint Eastwood movie Dirty Harry was some of their

493
00:29:23,982 --> 00:29:28,422
Speaker 2: motivation or how they planned it out. So I've never

494
00:29:28,462 --> 00:29:30,502
Speaker 2: watched that movie and I don't plan to.

495
00:29:31,062 --> 00:29:33,302
Speaker 1: I know you said your mum was a really stoic woman,

496
00:29:33,342 --> 00:29:36,302
Speaker 1: but did she tell you about how she felt that afternoon?

497
00:29:37,382 --> 00:29:42,822
Speaker 2: Oh? It it had affected mum greatly, but she didn't

498
00:29:42,862 --> 00:29:46,102
Speaker 2: really ever talk about it a great deal ever, And

499
00:29:46,142 --> 00:29:50,142
Speaker 2: she found the press interest very stressful.

500
00:29:50,422 --> 00:29:54,862
Speaker 1: So it's the seventies there's no mobiles. These three moms

501
00:29:54,942 --> 00:29:57,102
Speaker 1: arrive at the school to pick up their kids, they're

502
00:29:57,102 --> 00:30:00,422
Speaker 1: not there. They have this ransom note. What did they do?

503
00:30:00,702 --> 00:30:02,502
Speaker 1: How did they kind of raise the alarm?

504
00:30:03,742 --> 00:30:07,102
Speaker 2: One of them ran over to a neighbor to get

505
00:30:07,142 --> 00:30:13,022
Speaker 2: a call to the Customer Police was probably actually around

506
00:30:13,062 --> 00:30:18,102
Speaker 2: the same time Eastwood had called. Wayne Grant reported with

507
00:30:18,142 --> 00:30:20,582
Speaker 2: the Heraldton and he was very lovely. He was very

508
00:30:20,782 --> 00:30:23,862
Speaker 2: very kind to us, and he thought for a start

509
00:30:23,942 --> 00:30:27,022
Speaker 2: it was a crank call. But then he looked at

510
00:30:27,022 --> 00:30:31,542
Speaker 2: where Faraday was and I need to sort of pull

511
00:30:31,622 --> 00:30:34,702
Speaker 2: this in, and he you know, I think he called

512
00:30:34,982 --> 00:30:39,342
Speaker 2: D twenty four, and I think the custom and police

513
00:30:39,382 --> 00:30:41,342
Speaker 2: had just got the call, and all of a sudden

514
00:30:42,062 --> 00:30:45,542
Speaker 2: there was a realization that something really very bad had

515
00:30:45,582 --> 00:30:48,822
Speaker 2: gone down. And then the mums all drove back to

516
00:30:48,902 --> 00:30:52,902
Speaker 2: their respective farms to scramble around to try and find

517
00:30:52,902 --> 00:30:56,022
Speaker 2: their husbands. We're all farming and the men are all

518
00:30:56,102 --> 00:31:01,862
Speaker 2: out working wherever. Again, no mobile phones are ready to

519
00:31:01,982 --> 00:31:03,542
Speaker 2: sort of raise the alarm.

520
00:31:04,462 --> 00:31:09,022
Speaker 1: So the police they mobilized pretty quickly, two hundred police,

521
00:31:09,382 --> 00:31:13,222
Speaker 1: two hundred volunteer years and all the local huge tell

522
00:31:13,222 --> 00:31:14,022
Speaker 1: me about the search.

523
00:31:14,942 --> 00:31:18,102
Speaker 2: The search was was huge, you know when I reflect back,

524
00:31:18,142 --> 00:31:22,262
Speaker 2: So Casselaane virtually went into an emergency lockdown because there

525
00:31:22,302 --> 00:31:25,702
Speaker 2: were police, you know, flooded in everywhere. All your all

526
00:31:25,742 --> 00:31:30,502
Speaker 2: your service clubs were the the CFA, I think Saint John's.

527
00:31:30,662 --> 00:31:35,822
Speaker 2: And as the story broke, like as it was being broadcast.

528
00:31:35,302 --> 00:31:38,142
Speaker 3: Over the radios, people are.

529
00:31:38,222 --> 00:31:44,822
Speaker 2: Leaving for weekends or going away, stopped the direction they

530
00:31:44,862 --> 00:31:49,222
Speaker 2: were going and headed to the school and joined the search.

531
00:31:49,262 --> 00:31:51,582
Speaker 2: So it was a massive search underway.

532
00:31:51,622 --> 00:31:55,462
Speaker 3: And then of course all the farmers and that's.

533
00:31:55,302 --> 00:31:58,222
Speaker 2: What people talk of today, how they all you know

534
00:31:58,302 --> 00:32:01,942
Speaker 2: in that area were huge, just searched and walked their

535
00:32:01,942 --> 00:32:03,182
Speaker 2: properties everywhere.

536
00:32:03,582 --> 00:32:07,342
Speaker 3: They just searched and searched and searched. But it was hoped.

537
00:32:07,502 --> 00:32:10,262
Speaker 3: It was hopeless, Like it really was hopeless.

538
00:32:10,902 --> 00:32:14,342
Speaker 1: Was delivering the ransom ever going to be an issue?

539
00:32:14,342 --> 00:32:16,262
Speaker 1: Because you know, all the big wigs got called in

540
00:32:16,382 --> 00:32:19,262
Speaker 1: very quickly. We've got the heads of the police, we've

541
00:32:19,262 --> 00:32:23,702
Speaker 1: got the premiere. Was getting that money together going to

542
00:32:23,702 --> 00:32:26,382
Speaker 1: be hard or was that just you know, yes, we're

543
00:32:26,422 --> 00:32:26,782
Speaker 1: doing it.

544
00:32:26,862 --> 00:32:30,822
Speaker 2: My understanding, and look, I can't say this for certain,

545
00:32:30,822 --> 00:32:33,582
Speaker 2: but my understanding was that the government were going to

546
00:32:33,582 --> 00:32:36,342
Speaker 2: find the money and I think they borrowed it from

547
00:32:36,342 --> 00:32:43,502
Speaker 2: a company. And there's a very iconic photo of Lindsey Thompson,

548
00:32:43,502 --> 00:32:46,222
Speaker 2: who was a Deputy Premier and Education Minister at the

549
00:32:46,262 --> 00:32:49,662
Speaker 2: time because they wanted him to be the one to

550
00:32:49,742 --> 00:32:53,822
Speaker 2: deliver the money, and standing at wood End, which is

551
00:32:53,862 --> 00:32:58,062
Speaker 2: a little town outside of Melbourne. In early hours of

552
00:32:58,062 --> 00:33:01,662
Speaker 2: the morning, there was a call came through for the

553
00:33:01,742 --> 00:33:06,382
Speaker 2: ransom to be delivered. Now whether it's two thoughts, one

554
00:33:06,542 --> 00:33:09,102
Speaker 2: was that was a hoax, one that was actually was

555
00:33:09,142 --> 00:33:13,062
Speaker 2: the kidnappers anyway, the police surrounded would end they had

556
00:33:13,102 --> 00:33:15,982
Speaker 2: their Deputy Premier standing in the main street with a

557
00:33:16,342 --> 00:33:19,542
Speaker 2: satchel where they had had the I don't know, and

558
00:33:19,822 --> 00:33:23,022
Speaker 2: the police commissioner he wasn't the police commissioner at the time.

559
00:33:23,102 --> 00:33:26,502
Speaker 2: McK miller and mister Crawling who ended up being the

560
00:33:26,542 --> 00:33:31,182
Speaker 2: assistant Commissioner were in unmarked car, fully armed, but they

561
00:33:31,222 --> 00:33:33,462
Speaker 2: were really concerned because they thought there was a good

562
00:33:33,542 --> 00:33:37,422
Speaker 2: chance that the Deputy Premier would be shot. Because they

563
00:33:37,542 --> 00:33:41,182
Speaker 2: just thought whoever was doing this was absolute mad.

564
00:33:41,742 --> 00:33:43,782
Speaker 1: So they think that that might have been hoax call.

565
00:33:43,982 --> 00:33:46,662
Speaker 3: Yeah, they do, well it was they did. No one

566
00:33:46,702 --> 00:33:47,222
Speaker 3: turned up.

567
00:33:47,742 --> 00:33:50,382
Speaker 2: No one turned up to collect and I think there's

568
00:33:50,422 --> 00:33:56,262
Speaker 2: an interview with the Eastood where he he he became

569
00:33:56,342 --> 00:33:59,222
Speaker 2: aware of that and sort of made some comment, Oh,

570
00:33:59,302 --> 00:34:01,982
Speaker 2: some other bastard was trying to get in on the caper,

571
00:34:02,502 --> 00:34:04,502
Speaker 2: you know, and the police actually said, well you should

572
00:34:04,542 --> 00:34:06,782
Speaker 2: know you made the call and it was it wasn't me,

573
00:34:07,062 --> 00:34:09,222
Speaker 2: so no, whether who knows.

574
00:34:09,302 --> 00:34:14,462
Speaker 1: Really, let's good to Lancefield and this kind of rural

575
00:34:14,502 --> 00:34:17,982
Speaker 1: bush area that you were all standing in, because the

576
00:34:18,022 --> 00:34:21,422
Speaker 1: part that gets to me is thinking of it's starting

577
00:34:21,422 --> 00:34:24,262
Speaker 1: to get dark and all these little girls that he

578
00:34:24,382 --> 00:34:28,942
Speaker 1: used to being tucked into bed ah absolutely having their

579
00:34:29,022 --> 00:34:35,182
Speaker 1: bas having their dinner. What did bedtime or nighttime look

580
00:34:35,342 --> 00:34:37,542
Speaker 1: like in Lancefield that night.

581
00:34:38,102 --> 00:34:41,862
Speaker 2: Well, it really wasn't a bedtime or a nighttime. And

582
00:34:41,902 --> 00:34:45,062
Speaker 2: you know, again this is bizarre sort of stuff because

583
00:34:45,062 --> 00:34:48,502
Speaker 2: it was freezing in the back of the van and

584
00:34:48,942 --> 00:34:51,262
Speaker 2: Robert clip bowl and then we all moved into the

585
00:34:51,302 --> 00:34:56,102
Speaker 2: front cabin and huddled together for warmth. But I remember

586
00:34:56,142 --> 00:34:58,142
Speaker 2: it's all sort of getting in there and you know,

587
00:34:58,462 --> 00:35:00,822
Speaker 2: leaning as far away as we could because no one

588
00:35:00,862 --> 00:35:07,302
Speaker 2: wanted to sit near him for warmth. And Denise Smile,

589
00:35:07,622 --> 00:35:09,702
Speaker 2: the little one like she was only five and a

590
00:35:09,782 --> 00:35:11,822
Speaker 2: tiny little girl had to sit on his knee, and

591
00:35:11,902 --> 00:35:13,302
Speaker 2: she said her memories.

592
00:35:12,942 --> 00:35:16,182
Speaker 3: Are just a scratchy jumper, you know.

593
00:35:16,382 --> 00:35:21,582
Speaker 2: And him continually, you know that the story had broken,

594
00:35:22,022 --> 00:35:26,582
Speaker 2: and him continually fiddling with the radio and turning it

595
00:35:26,622 --> 00:35:30,182
Speaker 2: from channel to channel because the press kept telling the

596
00:35:30,222 --> 00:35:33,622
Speaker 2: story of that tragic story of Graham Thorne, the little

597
00:35:33,662 --> 00:35:35,582
Speaker 2: boy that had been kidnapped and murdered.

598
00:35:36,062 --> 00:35:38,782
Speaker 1: So they were telling Graham's story as a comparison to

599
00:35:38,862 --> 00:35:39,702
Speaker 1: you guys.

600
00:35:40,102 --> 00:35:42,662
Speaker 2: Virtually, Yes, there's been a kidnapping the last know, and

601
00:35:42,742 --> 00:35:45,862
Speaker 2: kidnapping was in Sydney, of he.

602
00:35:45,982 --> 00:35:51,262
Speaker 1: Was murdered, and you're hearing that on the radio, you know, his.

603
00:35:51,382 --> 00:35:52,782
Speaker 3: Gray fears for the you know.

604
00:35:54,222 --> 00:35:56,702
Speaker 2: And he kept turning it from channel to channel to it,

605
00:35:56,982 --> 00:36:00,702
Speaker 2: you know, and sort of almost fumbling, I guess, and

606
00:36:00,782 --> 00:36:04,142
Speaker 2: then turned it off, I think. And then he turned

607
00:36:04,182 --> 00:36:09,062
Speaker 2: to us and said, I really love kids. And even

608
00:36:09,062 --> 00:36:14,862
Speaker 2: as a little tenure girl, you know, mentally, I remember thinking, no, you.

609
00:36:14,822 --> 00:36:18,102
Speaker 1: Don't, or wasn't he a father himself?

610
00:36:18,182 --> 00:36:21,502
Speaker 2: Who was and I think to similar age children, did

611
00:36:21,502 --> 00:36:22,742
Speaker 2: they give you anything to eat?

612
00:36:23,462 --> 00:36:26,862
Speaker 3: When Aswood returned, we got cold chips?

613
00:36:26,902 --> 00:36:30,742
Speaker 2: I think it was, but I don't I can't remember

614
00:36:30,782 --> 00:36:35,142
Speaker 2: us drinking much or yeah, you know that memory is

615
00:36:35,182 --> 00:36:39,342
Speaker 2: a bit bluwry. No, not not really.

616
00:36:39,902 --> 00:36:42,862
Speaker 1: And at some point during the evening they both left,

617
00:36:42,982 --> 00:36:44,422
Speaker 1: didn't they together?

618
00:36:44,662 --> 00:36:46,422
Speaker 3: Yes? They left, Yes, they left?

619
00:36:46,662 --> 00:36:48,982
Speaker 1: And what did you do? Did you get any sleep?

620
00:36:49,262 --> 00:36:50,702
Speaker 1: Were you still in the back of the van or

621
00:36:50,742 --> 00:36:51,302
Speaker 1: in the cab?

622
00:36:51,702 --> 00:36:53,622
Speaker 2: We must have got a little bit. But also to

623
00:36:53,782 --> 00:36:56,822
Speaker 2: remembering we were good little country kids. We did what were told,

624
00:36:56,862 --> 00:36:58,822
Speaker 2: and they very said, now you stay here, will be

625
00:36:58,862 --> 00:36:59,662
Speaker 2: back in the morning.

626
00:37:00,022 --> 00:37:00,582
Speaker 3: Don't move.

627
00:37:01,742 --> 00:37:04,582
Speaker 2: I'm in awe of the bravery of mery gives, because

628
00:37:05,262 --> 00:37:07,342
Speaker 2: you know, they had clearly said they were coming back.

629
00:37:07,462 --> 00:37:10,342
Speaker 2: We had no reason to doubt that that wouldn't have.

630
00:37:11,462 --> 00:37:13,062
Speaker 2: Luckily we didn't listen to them.

631
00:37:13,782 --> 00:37:15,902
Speaker 1: Tell me about what Mary did? How did she get

632
00:37:15,902 --> 00:37:16,542
Speaker 1: you out?

633
00:37:16,742 --> 00:37:18,902
Speaker 2: I think we must have had some sleep, and you know,

634
00:37:19,222 --> 00:37:23,062
Speaker 2: it's daybreak or it's daylight, and she probably became aware

635
00:37:23,102 --> 00:37:25,062
Speaker 2: too that we couldn't just stay in here forever we

636
00:37:25,062 --> 00:37:27,862
Speaker 2: hadn't had anything to drink. It needed to go to

637
00:37:27,942 --> 00:37:31,222
Speaker 2: the toilet, and you know, she started just sort of

638
00:37:31,262 --> 00:37:34,982
Speaker 2: tapping around to see and then she eyed off this

639
00:37:35,062 --> 00:37:35,982
Speaker 2: panel at the back.

640
00:37:36,062 --> 00:37:36,902
Speaker 3: And remembering it.

641
00:37:36,862 --> 00:37:40,262
Speaker 2: Was that era of those beautiful boots and the minisca

642
00:37:40,622 --> 00:37:46,022
Speaker 2: and started kicking and kicking and kicking and kicking. And

643
00:37:46,822 --> 00:37:49,382
Speaker 2: one of the girls, Christine, was a really good you know,

644
00:37:49,422 --> 00:37:51,742
Speaker 2: she could hold the chain well, she could land on

645
00:37:51,822 --> 00:37:55,342
Speaker 2: her I didn't think I was that helpful. I tried

646
00:37:55,382 --> 00:37:58,062
Speaker 2: to hold it at times, we took turns or tried

647
00:37:58,102 --> 00:37:58,542
Speaker 2: to kick.

648
00:37:58,622 --> 00:38:00,822
Speaker 3: It was really in those.

649
00:38:00,702 --> 00:38:03,782
Speaker 1: Boots that so she literally kicked a panel out of

650
00:38:03,822 --> 00:38:07,142
Speaker 1: the van yep at the back man. Yes, this twenty

651
00:38:07,182 --> 00:38:09,582
Speaker 1: year old woman with these big, sturdy boots.

652
00:38:09,582 --> 00:38:12,702
Speaker 2: And remembering we had been to you do not move,

653
00:38:13,262 --> 00:38:15,262
Speaker 2: we are coming back, do not move.

654
00:38:15,902 --> 00:38:18,382
Speaker 1: So she got you out. You all kind of stumble

655
00:38:18,422 --> 00:38:20,782
Speaker 1: out of the van. What did you do? Were you terrified?

656
00:38:21,502 --> 00:38:21,902
Speaker 3: Yeah?

657
00:38:21,942 --> 00:38:25,342
Speaker 2: And actually I think that was probably the most frightening

658
00:38:26,382 --> 00:38:29,702
Speaker 2: parts of it, because it was very much, oh, they

659
00:38:29,822 --> 00:38:32,462
Speaker 2: come back, They're going to be so wild because we

660
00:38:32,502 --> 00:38:35,622
Speaker 2: haven't we haven't done what they said. We had to

661
00:38:35,662 --> 00:38:40,222
Speaker 2: stay still. But again, you know, she just we started

662
00:38:40,342 --> 00:38:46,262
Speaker 2: walking out, and you know, she had said we needed

663
00:38:46,262 --> 00:38:49,942
Speaker 2: to be very quiet and just follow her and if

664
00:38:49,982 --> 00:38:51,462
Speaker 2: we heard anything we had to run.

665
00:38:51,302 --> 00:38:53,222
Speaker 3: And hide, you know, which we did.

666
00:38:53,582 --> 00:38:59,142
Speaker 2: And it was only when we started hearing gunshots that,

667
00:38:59,222 --> 00:39:04,222
Speaker 2: oh no, and we all really hid, and so did

668
00:39:05,382 --> 00:39:09,382
Speaker 2: Mary Gibbs. But then she must have she heard something

669
00:39:09,422 --> 00:39:13,462
Speaker 2: that we didn't, and she stood up and beckoned for

670
00:39:13,582 --> 00:39:17,582
Speaker 2: us to stay where we were and went towards the

671
00:39:17,662 --> 00:39:19,902
Speaker 2: sand because she had heard women's.

672
00:39:19,502 --> 00:39:22,662
Speaker 1: Voices and they it wasn't the kidnappers.

673
00:39:23,422 --> 00:39:26,262
Speaker 2: And there were a party of four, two men and

674
00:39:26,302 --> 00:39:29,262
Speaker 2: two women. I think they were having a weekend away

675
00:39:29,462 --> 00:39:30,582
Speaker 2: rabbit shooting.

676
00:39:30,862 --> 00:39:33,342
Speaker 1: So it wasn't the kidnappers. It was this kind of

677
00:39:33,342 --> 00:39:35,182
Speaker 1: group of friends.

678
00:39:36,062 --> 00:39:40,182
Speaker 2: Friends, yeah, that had you know, obviously knew this area

679
00:39:40,422 --> 00:39:44,422
Speaker 2: and had come out early, or maybe that stayed. I

680
00:39:44,462 --> 00:39:47,622
Speaker 2: don't know, but they were rabbit shooting, and that she

681
00:39:47,702 --> 00:39:52,862
Speaker 2: heard the gunshots, but once she heard women's voice, she

682
00:39:52,982 --> 00:39:54,782
Speaker 2: realized it wasn't the kidnapping.

683
00:39:54,742 --> 00:39:57,422
Speaker 1: I can only imagine from their point of view, watching

684
00:39:57,542 --> 00:40:02,862
Speaker 1: these six dirty, bedraggled children and a teacher kind of

685
00:40:02,902 --> 00:40:07,102
Speaker 1: stumbling out of the bush, that must have been very strange.

686
00:40:07,742 --> 00:40:08,382
Speaker 3: They were.

687
00:40:10,222 --> 00:40:15,582
Speaker 2: Very shocked and very taken aback, But I remember, though

688
00:40:15,662 --> 00:40:18,942
Speaker 2: very kind. I suppose they were quite fearful for their

689
00:40:18,982 --> 00:40:22,702
Speaker 2: safety too. So we all piled into their car and

690
00:40:23,702 --> 00:40:25,382
Speaker 2: ended up at the Lansville play Station.

691
00:40:26,022 --> 00:40:28,902
Speaker 1: Tell me about the miscommunication that happened once you arrived there,

692
00:40:28,942 --> 00:40:31,982
Speaker 1: because to paint the picture once again, it's a country town.

693
00:40:32,462 --> 00:40:35,462
Speaker 1: So there is a police station, but it's manned by

694
00:40:35,662 --> 00:40:37,982
Speaker 1: one two police officers, and there's a house.

695
00:40:38,542 --> 00:40:44,022
Speaker 2: The policeman wasn't there, he was out, possibly on patrol.

696
00:40:44,742 --> 00:40:48,142
Speaker 2: So it was Missus Anderson, this tiny, tiny lady, and

697
00:40:48,942 --> 00:40:51,582
Speaker 2: you know, they pulled up and one of them must

698
00:40:51,662 --> 00:40:55,342
Speaker 2: have borne in and said something innocently like I've got

699
00:40:55,382 --> 00:40:58,462
Speaker 2: the teacher and the children in the car, and with

700
00:40:59,422 --> 00:41:04,542
Speaker 2: Missus Anderson stormed at and was just furious and started

701
00:41:04,662 --> 00:41:09,622
Speaker 2: yelling at the rescuers, virtually saying to them, how could you,

702
00:41:09,942 --> 00:41:12,422
Speaker 2: how could you do this? And I remember that one

703
00:41:12,422 --> 00:41:15,942
Speaker 2: of the gentlemen saying, well, we actually thought were being helpful.

704
00:41:16,902 --> 00:41:20,022
Speaker 1: And Missus Anderson was the police officer's wife, wife, and.

705
00:41:20,142 --> 00:41:22,742
Speaker 3: She I remember her yelling at them saying helpful. You

706
00:41:22,862 --> 00:41:23,742
Speaker 3: call this helpful?

707
00:41:24,382 --> 00:41:28,822
Speaker 2: And Mary was able to explain and I know these

708
00:41:28,822 --> 00:41:32,342
Speaker 2: aren't the perpetrators, this is the rescuers. And then Missus

709
00:41:32,342 --> 00:41:35,582
Speaker 2: Anderson calmed down and then called out to a son, Oh,

710
00:41:35,662 --> 00:41:38,982
Speaker 2: you can stop, you can put the gun down. Her

711
00:41:39,062 --> 00:41:41,182
Speaker 2: son and I don't know how old her son was,

712
00:41:41,222 --> 00:41:45,302
Speaker 2: but whether it's a young adult or late adolescent, had

713
00:41:45,302 --> 00:41:47,542
Speaker 2: a gun trained on the car. He was going to

714
00:41:47,542 --> 00:41:50,462
Speaker 2: shoot the tires out if they tried to hit from

715
00:41:50,462 --> 00:41:52,862
Speaker 2: a bedroom window or something like that.

716
00:41:52,942 --> 00:41:55,422
Speaker 3: And then she was very I remember, she was very kind,

717
00:41:55,702 --> 00:41:56,502
Speaker 3: was very.

718
00:41:56,982 --> 00:42:01,022
Speaker 2: Clapped over us and white oat faces and gave us

719
00:42:01,062 --> 00:42:01,862
Speaker 2: some hot mile.

720
00:42:03,502 --> 00:42:07,542
Speaker 1: So pretty quickly the police and the media were surrounding

721
00:42:07,582 --> 00:42:11,422
Speaker 1: that house and that police station. What was that like?

722
00:42:11,502 --> 00:42:15,542
Speaker 1: That would have been your first kind of instance seeing

723
00:42:15,582 --> 00:42:17,582
Speaker 1: a media kind of horde.

724
00:42:18,862 --> 00:42:19,222
Speaker 3: It was.

725
00:42:19,422 --> 00:42:24,222
Speaker 2: It was surreal and it wasn't particularly comfortable, you know,

726
00:42:24,502 --> 00:42:28,462
Speaker 2: my memory, you know, because the whole the police had

727
00:42:28,542 --> 00:42:32,542
Speaker 2: had arrived, I think mister Thompson had arrived like it was.

728
00:42:33,222 --> 00:42:34,902
Speaker 3: It was a really big deal.

729
00:42:35,142 --> 00:42:37,782
Speaker 2: And then the press had all set up and I

730
00:42:37,822 --> 00:42:41,462
Speaker 2: remember one of them same rule, it's best if you

731
00:42:41,542 --> 00:42:43,782
Speaker 2: go out, you know, they want photos, you know.

732
00:42:44,622 --> 00:42:46,502
Speaker 3: But I don't think anything.

733
00:42:46,182 --> 00:42:50,382
Speaker 2: Could really prepare well, it couldn't prepare us for that

734
00:42:50,662 --> 00:42:54,022
Speaker 2: because we had no experience of a press throng or

735
00:42:54,142 --> 00:42:57,622
Speaker 2: yelling it out and the other thing. Jemmy, you know,

736
00:42:57,942 --> 00:43:00,502
Speaker 2: I didn't resonate to write the book. It was all men,

737
00:43:00,822 --> 00:43:04,942
Speaker 2: the journalists it's all men. Back in that era, it's

738
00:43:04,982 --> 00:43:05,342
Speaker 2: all men.

739
00:43:06,102 --> 00:43:08,502
Speaker 1: And they were kind of yelling questions at you, weren't they.

740
00:43:09,022 --> 00:43:12,422
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was quite sort of RECEI at the time,

741
00:43:12,462 --> 00:43:14,782
Speaker 2: That's what it felt like anyway, you know it was.

742
00:43:15,462 --> 00:43:18,182
Speaker 1: Do you remember being reunited with your parents. How long

743
00:43:18,502 --> 00:43:20,622
Speaker 1: after the rescue was that It's been a.

744
00:43:20,622 --> 00:43:23,782
Speaker 2: Few hours, because it would have you know, there was

745
00:43:23,862 --> 00:43:27,462
Speaker 2: there was a lot going on at Lancefield, maybe late morning,

746
00:43:27,502 --> 00:43:28,582
Speaker 2: maybe lunchtime.

747
00:43:28,662 --> 00:43:28,862
Speaker 3: You know.

748
00:43:29,382 --> 00:43:32,702
Speaker 2: I remember being really excited being driven back to Casmane

749
00:43:32,702 --> 00:43:35,942
Speaker 2: and Plexica and they brought us an ice cream and

750
00:43:35,982 --> 00:43:39,582
Speaker 2: I remember thinking, oh, we never have ice cream in

751
00:43:39,622 --> 00:43:45,702
Speaker 2: the morning. But then again when we got back to Castlemaine,

752
00:43:46,542 --> 00:43:51,422
Speaker 2: just an enormous crowd outside the Castlemaine police station and

753
00:43:51,462 --> 00:43:55,582
Speaker 2: so they virtually had to usher us through the people

754
00:43:56,062 --> 00:44:00,582
Speaker 2: the crowd to get in the building to reunite with

755
00:44:00,622 --> 00:44:01,342
Speaker 2: our parents.

756
00:44:01,702 --> 00:44:04,262
Speaker 1: And how did they react? Do you remember their reactions?

757
00:44:04,942 --> 00:44:10,942
Speaker 2: Our mum was incredibly distressed, incredibly distressed. And Dad, poor

758
00:44:10,942 --> 00:44:13,902
Speaker 2: our dad. You know, that was the era to never

759
00:44:13,942 --> 00:44:17,502
Speaker 2: show any emotion. And I remember seeing him marching up

760
00:44:17,502 --> 00:44:19,742
Speaker 2: and down as if he was a soldier, and at

761
00:44:19,742 --> 00:44:22,262
Speaker 2: the back of the room and I remember thinking to myself,

762
00:44:22,902 --> 00:44:25,982
Speaker 2: you weren't in the army, why are you marching? And

763
00:44:26,022 --> 00:44:28,382
Speaker 2: then he walked up to us to shake our hands,

764
00:44:29,942 --> 00:44:34,142
Speaker 2: and then he boost into ts and hugged U sworm

765
00:44:34,742 --> 00:44:35,382
Speaker 2: a flesh.

766
00:44:35,422 --> 00:44:40,102
Speaker 1: He shook your hands. Yeah, what was the rest of

767
00:44:40,382 --> 00:44:42,382
Speaker 1: that weekend? Like for you?

768
00:44:43,062 --> 00:44:43,782
Speaker 3: It was surreal.

769
00:44:43,902 --> 00:44:46,982
Speaker 2: It was a severe week and the press were every

770
00:44:47,142 --> 00:44:49,942
Speaker 2: Because we lived on the Colder Highway, I think it

771
00:44:50,022 --> 00:44:53,582
Speaker 2: was probably had easier access to us, maybe than the

772
00:44:53,662 --> 00:44:57,462
Speaker 2: other families. I'm not really sure about that. And remembering

773
00:44:57,542 --> 00:44:59,622
Speaker 2: rural people, you know, if someone comes to visit, to

774
00:44:59,662 --> 00:45:02,302
Speaker 2: invite them in, you give them a cup of tea.

775
00:45:02,782 --> 00:45:06,542
Speaker 2: You you might have afternoon tea for them. So that

776
00:45:06,702 --> 00:45:10,422
Speaker 2: the press were the press kind of were just there

777
00:45:10,902 --> 00:45:14,422
Speaker 2: in every room. They seemed to just be there really

778
00:45:14,902 --> 00:45:18,702
Speaker 2: and family, lots of family, lots of visitors, which was

779
00:45:18,782 --> 00:45:21,942
Speaker 2: really unusual. And I always I tell you, I tell

780
00:45:21,942 --> 00:45:24,502
Speaker 2: you that you probably won't think it's very funny, Jimmy,

781
00:45:24,542 --> 00:45:26,462
Speaker 2: but I thought when I thought back, I thought it

782
00:45:26,502 --> 00:45:30,822
Speaker 2: was funny because I'm at Richmond Tragic with the AFL

783
00:45:31,102 --> 00:45:35,342
Speaker 2: and I got back in a Saturday afternoon the VFL

784
00:45:35,382 --> 00:45:39,422
Speaker 2: Grand Finals on and my hairs matted, and my fingernails

785
00:45:39,502 --> 00:45:42,942
Speaker 2: are filthy, and I'd scun my knee and I was

786
00:45:43,022 --> 00:45:46,382
Speaker 2: really grotty and dirty. Instead of having a bath, I

787
00:45:46,502 --> 00:45:50,462
Speaker 2: stood there being annoyed with all these journalists wandering around

788
00:45:50,462 --> 00:45:53,302
Speaker 2: because I wanted to listen to the Football Grand Final

789
00:45:53,982 --> 00:45:57,222
Speaker 2: and it was Richmond and Carlton and Carlton one, and

790
00:45:57,582 --> 00:46:01,702
Speaker 2: I remember thinking, how can the weekend get any more worse?

791
00:46:02,782 --> 00:46:06,542
Speaker 1: Really, at that point, you know it had just happened.

792
00:46:07,022 --> 00:46:10,782
Speaker 1: Do you think you were feeling traumatized when you look

793
00:46:10,822 --> 00:46:13,982
Speaker 1: back or were you kind of just it was all

794
00:46:14,262 --> 00:46:14,902
Speaker 1: just shocking.

795
00:46:16,022 --> 00:46:21,382
Speaker 2: I think it was just an avalanche of experiences that

796
00:46:22,302 --> 00:46:28,062
Speaker 2: we could never have anticipated ever. Ever, so at that

797
00:46:28,262 --> 00:46:31,062
Speaker 2: stage it was like sort of like you're in the

798
00:46:31,062 --> 00:46:32,422
Speaker 2: middle of its army.

799
00:46:32,542 --> 00:46:36,382
Speaker 1: Really, we now know a lot more about the men

800
00:46:36,422 --> 00:46:38,262
Speaker 1: at the time obviously you didn't you attend, but you

801
00:46:38,262 --> 00:46:40,102
Speaker 1: have done your research as an adult. Can you tell

802
00:46:40,142 --> 00:46:42,662
Speaker 1: me about them? What? What do we know about them?

803
00:46:42,702 --> 00:46:44,462
Speaker 1: How did they meet? How did they come up with

804
00:46:44,502 --> 00:46:44,942
Speaker 1: this plan?

805
00:46:45,462 --> 00:46:48,982
Speaker 2: Yeah, look and more and more people, there's all the talks,

806
00:46:49,022 --> 00:46:52,862
Speaker 2: come and tell me lots of little gems about the perpetrate.

807
00:46:53,422 --> 00:46:56,662
Speaker 2: My understanding is that he was a twenty one year

808
00:46:56,702 --> 00:47:00,302
Speaker 2: old from Melbourne. He had already started embarking on a

809
00:47:00,382 --> 00:47:03,742
Speaker 2: life of chrome. Robert Claude Bowmen was from a very

810
00:47:03,942 --> 00:47:09,822
Speaker 2: well respected established family in Bendigo and never really got

811
00:47:09,822 --> 00:47:10,542
Speaker 2: ay v.

812
00:47:12,142 --> 00:47:14,622
Speaker 3: Of why.

813
00:47:14,902 --> 00:47:19,262
Speaker 2: Well he wanted money, but they met at a plastering

814
00:47:19,622 --> 00:47:24,782
Speaker 2: course and decided they both wanted an easier life and

815
00:47:25,622 --> 00:47:29,062
Speaker 2: this would be a good way to net a million dollars.

816
00:47:29,102 --> 00:47:33,262
Speaker 2: Now my understanding is Robert Clokbollen was mastermind and Edward

817
00:47:33,302 --> 00:47:35,862
Speaker 2: Johnnyswood was very eager pupil.

818
00:47:36,462 --> 00:47:37,662
Speaker 3: That's my understanding.

819
00:47:40,422 --> 00:47:43,182
Speaker 1: After the break, Robin shares a chilling moment when the

820
00:47:43,222 --> 00:47:47,262
Speaker 1: identities of the kidnappers were revealed and surprisingly her mother

821
00:47:47,382 --> 00:47:55,102
Speaker 1: recognized one of them that night when they both left

822
00:47:55,142 --> 00:48:02,102
Speaker 1: the van. Was that actually them abandoning the plan altogether in.

823
00:48:02,142 --> 00:48:06,302
Speaker 2: Jema That's an interesting question. And one thing Iswood did

824
00:48:06,382 --> 00:48:12,342
Speaker 2: say when he had been arrested and had been in interviewed,

825
00:48:12,942 --> 00:48:18,902
Speaker 2: and he did say something like, oh, there must have

826
00:48:18,982 --> 00:48:21,502
Speaker 2: been a lot of people praying for those little kids

827
00:48:21,542 --> 00:48:24,542
Speaker 2: that night, because everything just went wrong for us.

828
00:48:25,022 --> 00:48:26,942
Speaker 3: But I'm glad they weren't hurt.

829
00:48:27,182 --> 00:48:28,382
Speaker 1: So maybe they chickened out.

830
00:48:28,862 --> 00:48:30,742
Speaker 3: Jim look I don't know everything.

831
00:48:30,782 --> 00:48:34,582
Speaker 2: Had they had had their plan loosely based on the

832
00:48:34,662 --> 00:48:37,382
Speaker 2: Dirty Harry movie, so East would had driven to Melbourne

833
00:48:37,702 --> 00:48:41,902
Speaker 2: and he'd already been around where he'd put melways in

834
00:48:42,782 --> 00:48:47,342
Speaker 2: phone boxes. So they had decided to make contact with

835
00:48:47,422 --> 00:48:50,502
Speaker 2: the priest at the tally ho Boys Home in Melbourne,

836
00:48:50,902 --> 00:48:53,862
Speaker 2: and he was going to be the you know, go

837
00:48:53,942 --> 00:48:56,302
Speaker 2: to person who was going to go to phone box

838
00:48:56,342 --> 00:48:59,302
Speaker 2: to phone books, follow the clues and the government and

839
00:48:59,342 --> 00:49:02,662
Speaker 2: I think mister Thompson were to deliver the ransom to

840
00:49:02,702 --> 00:49:06,342
Speaker 2: this priest because they thought a priest would be very reliable.

841
00:49:06,942 --> 00:49:10,662
Speaker 2: And when he phoned the tally Hope Boys Home to

842
00:49:10,702 --> 00:49:14,982
Speaker 2: speak to the father, he was on annual leave and

843
00:49:15,022 --> 00:49:18,662
Speaker 2: so then he I guess he probably did panic and

844
00:49:18,702 --> 00:49:23,102
Speaker 2: then he phoned D twenty four to talk to mister Thompson,

845
00:49:23,222 --> 00:49:27,902
Speaker 2: and I think panicked and hung up, and so I

846
00:49:27,942 --> 00:49:31,022
Speaker 2: think they went back to regroup and leave us there.

847
00:49:31,142 --> 00:49:34,982
Speaker 2: Now I really don't know what would have happened if

848
00:49:35,022 --> 00:49:38,782
Speaker 2: we hadn't escaped, whether they would have come back, because

849
00:49:38,782 --> 00:49:43,222
Speaker 2: it was very isolated where we were, and really, when

850
00:49:43,262 --> 00:49:45,102
Speaker 2: you think about it, a very wicked thing to do.

851
00:49:45,302 --> 00:49:48,942
Speaker 1: Oh, it's terrific well, by the Sunday the police had

852
00:49:48,942 --> 00:49:52,102
Speaker 1: offered a fifty k reward for answers. They were obviously

853
00:49:52,102 --> 00:49:55,902
Speaker 1: tracking these two men and they did get a bit

854
00:49:55,902 --> 00:49:59,462
Speaker 1: of a lead. Someone kind of gave them the names

855
00:49:59,902 --> 00:50:04,182
Speaker 1: and both of them were arrested at their respective homes,

856
00:50:04,262 --> 00:50:08,302
Speaker 1: so Melbourne and Bendigo at about four thirty am on Monday. Correct,

857
00:50:09,262 --> 00:50:11,982
Speaker 1: and East would actually kind confessed straight away, didn't he?

858
00:50:13,302 --> 00:50:15,222
Speaker 3: Correct? Yes? Correct?

859
00:50:15,782 --> 00:50:18,622
Speaker 2: Reggi Baker was the lead detective. He went on to

860
00:50:18,662 --> 00:50:21,822
Speaker 2: be the assistant Commissioner of Pleas. He was just the

861
00:50:21,822 --> 00:50:26,222
Speaker 2: most wonderful man. And reg was very kind and shared

862
00:50:26,222 --> 00:50:30,702
Speaker 2: his memoirs with me. And he had written his memoirs

863
00:50:30,702 --> 00:50:33,862
Speaker 2: on stories that on cases he'd worked on that had

864
00:50:33,902 --> 00:50:37,982
Speaker 2: really affected him, and the Faraday kidnapping was one. And

865
00:50:38,062 --> 00:50:40,542
Speaker 2: I didn't know this, but he told me that his

866
00:50:40,742 --> 00:50:43,822
Speaker 2: interview with Edward John Eyswood was used as a teaching

867
00:50:43,942 --> 00:50:48,982
Speaker 2: tool for many years to come with police on how

868
00:50:49,382 --> 00:50:53,542
Speaker 2: to interview and how to get as much information.

869
00:50:54,582 --> 00:50:56,022
Speaker 3: As you can. Wow.

870
00:50:56,822 --> 00:51:01,302
Speaker 1: And when their identities were revealed, your mum recognized one of.

871
00:51:01,222 --> 00:51:03,982
Speaker 3: Them, Yes she did. That was Robert Clerk Bland.

872
00:51:04,182 --> 00:51:07,262
Speaker 1: And she was related, Yes she was.

873
00:51:07,942 --> 00:51:12,102
Speaker 3: And that has caused my family.

874
00:51:12,622 --> 00:51:15,582
Speaker 2: Such distress over many years.

875
00:51:15,902 --> 00:51:18,182
Speaker 1: It was quite a distant connection though, wasn't it.

876
00:51:19,862 --> 00:51:20,462
Speaker 3: Yes and no.

877
00:51:20,622 --> 00:51:25,102
Speaker 2: So it turned out that my grandfather and Robert Clive

878
00:51:25,182 --> 00:51:28,902
Speaker 2: Bolan's grandmother were brother and sister. My grandfather was, you know,

879
00:51:29,222 --> 00:51:32,862
Speaker 2: back then, one of those big families. We didn't know

880
00:51:33,622 --> 00:51:38,182
Speaker 2: or have any relationship with the Bolan family apart from

881
00:51:38,502 --> 00:51:40,142
Speaker 2: knew who they were.

882
00:51:40,862 --> 00:51:41,462
Speaker 1: But it.

883
00:51:43,222 --> 00:51:46,902
Speaker 3: Wasn't nice. It wasn't nice, and.

884
00:51:47,582 --> 00:51:52,262
Speaker 2: It was particularly distressing from my maternal grandparents living in Bendigo.

885
00:51:52,902 --> 00:51:56,142
Speaker 3: And look, I must say, I do need to make.

886
00:51:56,262 --> 00:52:00,142
Speaker 2: This comment and I've only sort of realized myself as

887
00:52:00,182 --> 00:52:03,622
Speaker 2: an adult that and I do want to acknowledge is

888
00:52:03,662 --> 00:52:07,902
Speaker 2: that the Bolan family were very well respected family in Bendigo.

889
00:52:08,022 --> 00:52:12,942
Speaker 2: They were business people, but Clyde Bolan's actions really damaged

890
00:52:13,102 --> 00:52:17,022
Speaker 2: their reputation. And you know, I know some of the

891
00:52:17,142 --> 00:52:21,982
Speaker 2: Boland actually relatives, you know, nearly lost their businesses because

892
00:52:21,982 --> 00:52:25,422
Speaker 2: there was such ill feeling towards a Bowlin name.

893
00:52:25,502 --> 00:52:27,262
Speaker 3: And I think that's unfair.

894
00:52:29,102 --> 00:52:31,982
Speaker 1: You had to go to a police lineup to identify

895
00:52:33,622 --> 00:52:35,222
Speaker 1: then what was that like?

896
00:52:35,902 --> 00:52:37,342
Speaker 3: That was really horrific?

897
00:52:37,622 --> 00:52:40,622
Speaker 2: Yea, that was really I think that was wrong that

898
00:52:40,662 --> 00:52:42,662
Speaker 2: we had to do it like that, you know, walking

899
00:52:42,662 --> 00:52:45,702
Speaker 2: into a room with all these men lined up against

900
00:52:45,702 --> 00:52:49,102
Speaker 2: the wall and back then they looked like double giants.

901
00:52:49,142 --> 00:52:52,902
Speaker 2: Of course they weren't. But again and the police bringing

902
00:52:52,942 --> 00:52:56,102
Speaker 2: you in all men, so you're one little girl surrounded

903
00:52:56,142 --> 00:52:57,102
Speaker 2: by men.

904
00:52:57,542 --> 00:53:00,582
Speaker 1: So you weren't in between like in the movies you're

905
00:53:00,582 --> 00:53:01,582
Speaker 1: behind glass.

906
00:53:01,942 --> 00:53:05,262
Speaker 2: No, no, you were in the room with them.

907
00:53:05,902 --> 00:53:08,102
Speaker 1: Oh that's scary, and you know.

908
00:53:08,222 --> 00:53:11,222
Speaker 2: Lined up at the back and then at the side

909
00:53:11,422 --> 00:53:14,182
Speaker 2: and then just one over at the other side.

910
00:53:14,862 --> 00:53:20,302
Speaker 1: You had to give evidence in court. Initially, despite the confession,

911
00:53:20,342 --> 00:53:22,782
Speaker 1: they both kind of pled not guilty, which meant two

912
00:53:22,902 --> 00:53:26,262
Speaker 1: trials or a trial for both men, and you had

913
00:53:26,302 --> 00:53:29,862
Speaker 1: to give evidence. Firstly, how much of a big deal

914
00:53:30,022 --> 00:53:33,102
Speaker 1: was it for your family to make that trick to Melbourne.

915
00:53:33,742 --> 00:53:39,702
Speaker 2: Oh, Jemma, that was a night mean, so Dad would prepare.

916
00:53:39,902 --> 00:53:44,142
Speaker 2: So we actually had to testify four times because there

917
00:53:44,222 --> 00:53:47,662
Speaker 2: was the hearing, and then they ended up being three

918
00:53:47,822 --> 00:53:52,342
Speaker 2: Supreme Court cases. Initially they did both pled not guilty,

919
00:53:52,342 --> 00:53:55,022
Speaker 2: but then Edward John Aswood did plead guilty, so then

920
00:53:55,062 --> 00:53:59,982
Speaker 2: it was only the Robert Clode Bowland one just to

921
00:54:00,422 --> 00:54:02,902
Speaker 2: drive and people in Melbourne. May not realize that, but

922
00:54:03,062 --> 00:54:06,222
Speaker 2: people in the bush driving to Melbourne was just horrific.

923
00:54:06,702 --> 00:54:10,102
Speaker 2: And so Dad would look at the melways for three

924
00:54:10,182 --> 00:54:13,662
Speaker 2: days his stress. He'd been muttering to himself. And we

925
00:54:13,702 --> 00:54:16,702
Speaker 2: always did the same thing every time we drove down.

926
00:54:16,782 --> 00:54:19,502
Speaker 2: We parked at the Royal Children's Hospital and we called

927
00:54:19,542 --> 00:54:21,662
Speaker 2: a tram in, but we would stand at the tram

928
00:54:21,782 --> 00:54:24,942
Speaker 2: stop with Dad muttering and swearing because ofcause you never

929
00:54:25,062 --> 00:54:28,382
Speaker 2: asked anyone which tram to catch.

930
00:54:29,302 --> 00:54:31,342
Speaker 3: We I think I think it's an Australian man.

931
00:54:31,542 --> 00:54:36,262
Speaker 2: We never asked directions when we're going somewhere, So that

932
00:54:36,462 --> 00:54:37,222
Speaker 2: for us was.

933
00:54:39,142 --> 00:54:40,662
Speaker 3: A big thing, very big thing.

934
00:54:41,542 --> 00:54:44,502
Speaker 1: And what was it like standing up in court because

935
00:54:44,542 --> 00:54:46,822
Speaker 1: by this point you would have been what eleven this

936
00:54:46,942 --> 00:54:48,422
Speaker 1: was nineteen seventy three.

937
00:54:48,382 --> 00:54:53,542
Speaker 2: Yeah, probably eleven year No and again, and I do

938
00:54:53,662 --> 00:54:56,982
Speaker 2: talk about it in my book that I did develop

939
00:54:57,222 --> 00:54:59,942
Speaker 2: like a post traumatic stress disorder, and I think the

940
00:55:00,382 --> 00:55:05,742
Speaker 2: appearance at court was probably the huge figures for that.

941
00:55:06,462 --> 00:55:12,782
Speaker 2: Because you're a young girl, You're in a totally foreign environment.

942
00:55:13,662 --> 00:55:16,142
Speaker 2: Your dad has already lost his mind trying to drive

943
00:55:16,222 --> 00:55:19,942
Speaker 2: to Melbourne, so it's already stress levels a little bit high.

944
00:55:20,382 --> 00:55:24,102
Speaker 2: You're in a packed court gallery because it was still

945
00:55:24,102 --> 00:55:28,502
Speaker 2: there was huge interest in this case. Packed gallery, press everywhere,

946
00:55:28,782 --> 00:55:32,862
Speaker 2: the judiciary everywhere, and you know, they just all look

947
00:55:32,942 --> 00:55:37,622
Speaker 2: so learned and superior, I guess, and they were all men.

948
00:55:38,782 --> 00:55:43,142
Speaker 2: And then you've got a perpetrator. At the start it

949
00:55:43,262 --> 00:55:46,502
Speaker 2: was two but then just been one. But they're sort

950
00:55:46,502 --> 00:55:49,382
Speaker 2: of standing directly opposite you, up on a bit of

951
00:55:49,382 --> 00:55:53,622
Speaker 2: a stand, looking down at you. So it was exceptionally

952
00:55:53,782 --> 00:55:55,982
Speaker 2: intimidating space.

953
00:55:55,742 --> 00:55:56,222
Speaker 3: To be in.

954
00:55:57,102 --> 00:56:01,902
Speaker 1: So Eastwood was pretty quickly given fifteen years with a

955
00:56:01,902 --> 00:56:04,822
Speaker 1: non parole period of ten years. As you've said, Boland

956
00:56:05,822 --> 00:56:11,422
Speaker 1: pledged not guilty and ended up having three trials, and

957
00:56:11,462 --> 00:56:13,462
Speaker 1: you think that there might have been a bit of

958
00:56:13,462 --> 00:56:14,822
Speaker 1: funny business going on there.

959
00:56:15,622 --> 00:56:19,222
Speaker 2: He had an excellent defense. He had an excellent defense.

960
00:56:20,622 --> 00:56:23,582
Speaker 2: It was two hung juries. I think one of the

961
00:56:23,902 --> 00:56:27,022
Speaker 2: hung juries was like at that stage had the record

962
00:56:27,102 --> 00:56:29,462
Speaker 2: for the longest deliberation.

963
00:56:29,542 --> 00:56:30,942
Speaker 1: In nineteen hours.

964
00:56:31,222 --> 00:56:35,302
Speaker 2: Yeah. The third trial however, though, and you know I

965
00:56:35,302 --> 00:56:36,942
Speaker 2: do write about this in the book, because the police

966
00:56:36,942 --> 00:56:40,222
Speaker 2: were getting exceptionally disheartened because they felt they had a

967
00:56:40,382 --> 00:56:43,302
Speaker 2: very strong case, which they did. They had eye witnesses,

968
00:56:43,342 --> 00:56:46,342
Speaker 2: they had fingerprints, They really did.

969
00:56:46,822 --> 00:56:50,382
Speaker 1: But didn't they think that there was jury tampering.

970
00:56:51,022 --> 00:56:54,742
Speaker 3: We never knew that. It was always rumored.

971
00:56:55,022 --> 00:56:57,382
Speaker 1: It was just speculation, speculation.

972
00:56:56,942 --> 00:57:00,902
Speaker 2: I suppose, because it just didn't make any sense that

973
00:57:00,942 --> 00:57:05,182
Speaker 2: there was no clear conviction. But in a third trial

974
00:57:05,262 --> 00:57:08,182
Speaker 2: gem there was a huge change to the Crimes Act,

975
00:57:09,262 --> 00:57:15,302
Speaker 2: where up and until that time a crime against kidnapping,

976
00:57:17,062 --> 00:57:20,702
Speaker 2: a wife did not was not compelled to give evidence

977
00:57:21,142 --> 00:57:26,662
Speaker 2: against her husband and disclosed marital conversations. Now, my husband

978
00:57:26,862 --> 00:57:29,622
Speaker 2: David was a police prosecutor for many years, and he

979
00:57:29,822 --> 00:57:35,422
Speaker 2: was telling me that the Faraday kidnapping case with the

980
00:57:35,462 --> 00:57:40,742
Speaker 2: trail of Robert Clodebolin was famous for police prosecutors because

981
00:57:40,822 --> 00:57:45,622
Speaker 2: at that time the Crimes Act was changed and crimes

982
00:57:45,622 --> 00:57:51,222
Speaker 2: such as kidnapping and incest were changed so that then

983
00:57:51,582 --> 00:57:54,422
Speaker 2: a wife, it was normally a wife could then be

984
00:57:54,462 --> 00:57:58,942
Speaker 2: put on the stand and cross examined regarding marital conversations.

985
00:57:59,062 --> 00:58:01,302
Speaker 3: Up until that time, David had said to me it

986
00:58:01,382 --> 00:58:02,142
Speaker 3: was really.

987
00:58:01,902 --> 00:58:07,342
Speaker 2: Difficult getting convictions when children were being involved.

988
00:58:08,462 --> 00:58:10,902
Speaker 3: So that the Crimes Act.

989
00:58:10,782 --> 00:58:16,702
Speaker 2: Was changed and Robert Clyde Bollin's wife Lois was compelled

990
00:58:16,742 --> 00:58:20,702
Speaker 2: to take the stand in the third trial and disclosed

991
00:58:20,862 --> 00:58:26,182
Speaker 2: marital conversations, and the jury in that case took thirty

992
00:58:26,262 --> 00:58:30,342
Speaker 2: minutes to reach, so it was a real game change.

993
00:58:30,902 --> 00:58:31,862
Speaker 1: What did she say?

994
00:58:32,622 --> 00:58:33,862
Speaker 3: It was virtually.

995
00:58:35,142 --> 00:58:38,302
Speaker 2: Repeating that he had admitted that he had done it,

996
00:58:39,342 --> 00:58:40,982
Speaker 2: that he had done it, he knew now where he'd

997
00:58:40,982 --> 00:58:45,182
Speaker 2: gone wrong, he'd done it, and also he'd given an

998
00:58:45,222 --> 00:58:49,182
Speaker 2: alibi that he had been in Melbourne that day, and

999
00:58:49,302 --> 00:58:52,462
Speaker 2: she virtually dismantled his alibi.

1000
00:58:53,222 --> 00:58:56,422
Speaker 1: She also alleged other violence, other crimes.

1001
00:58:56,982 --> 00:59:01,262
Speaker 2: Well, it took towards herself. When I read the appeal document,

1002
00:59:01,822 --> 00:59:04,982
Speaker 2: I was really shocked. I was really shocked by this

1003
00:59:05,142 --> 00:59:09,262
Speaker 2: that the defense just crucified her on the stand and

1004
00:59:09,302 --> 00:59:13,182
Speaker 2: she collapsed. It was clear when I was reading the

1005
00:59:13,262 --> 00:59:16,542
Speaker 2: information that she was terrified of him.

1006
00:59:17,462 --> 00:59:21,702
Speaker 3: It appeared to me anyway that she was a victim

1007
00:59:21,702 --> 00:59:22,702
Speaker 3: of family violence.

1008
00:59:25,222 --> 00:59:28,142
Speaker 1: So that third trial, he was found guilty, sentenced to

1009
00:59:28,182 --> 00:59:32,142
Speaker 1: sixteen years with a minimum of twelve. Yes, but as

1010
00:59:32,182 --> 00:59:34,542
Speaker 1: you said that that's three trials that you, as a

1011
00:59:34,582 --> 00:59:37,302
Speaker 1: young girl, as an eleven year old, had to deal

1012
00:59:37,342 --> 00:59:38,262
Speaker 1: with in one year.

1013
00:59:38,902 --> 00:59:44,502
Speaker 2: Yes. Yeah, and my family always very upset about that,

1014
00:59:44,782 --> 00:59:48,462
Speaker 2: you know, they just if he had just pleaded guilty,

1015
00:59:48,662 --> 00:59:50,302
Speaker 2: we could have moved on a lot quicker.

1016
00:59:51,342 --> 00:59:54,862
Speaker 1: A few months after the kidnapping, you actually went back

1017
00:59:56,622 --> 01:00:00,462
Speaker 1: to Lancefield and saw the trench that we've been talking.

1018
01:00:00,222 --> 01:00:02,142
Speaker 3: About, Probably not one of my fathers.

1019
01:00:02,182 --> 01:00:07,742
Speaker 1: Why, in a parenting moment, yeah, why why did he

1020
01:00:07,782 --> 01:00:08,382
Speaker 1: take you there?

1021
01:00:08,782 --> 01:00:11,742
Speaker 2: I think at the time had developed quite a nice

1022
01:00:12,022 --> 01:00:16,982
Speaker 2: friendship with the Constable Anderson that was there, so comfortable

1023
01:00:16,982 --> 01:00:19,662
Speaker 2: Anderson must have invited him to go back, and because

1024
01:00:19,702 --> 01:00:22,422
Speaker 2: we never went anywhere, we said, oh, Dad, can we

1025
01:00:22,582 --> 01:00:26,742
Speaker 2: come to and we often puffed, oh, well, yes, you

1026
01:00:26,782 --> 01:00:29,782
Speaker 2: can come to so and so we went there, and

1027
01:00:30,702 --> 01:00:32,702
Speaker 2: then you know, I think comestormle Anderson must.

1028
01:00:32,542 --> 01:00:33,862
Speaker 3: Have said that, well do you want to see where

1029
01:00:33,862 --> 01:00:34,102
Speaker 3: they were?

1030
01:00:34,142 --> 01:00:34,262
Speaker 2: Hell?

1031
01:00:34,302 --> 01:00:35,022
Speaker 3: Oh yes, yes.

1032
01:00:35,062 --> 01:00:38,022
Speaker 2: So then we went out there and then I think

1033
01:00:38,062 --> 01:00:40,422
Speaker 2: they did say, you know, just wait here, and he

1034
01:00:40,542 --> 01:00:43,582
Speaker 2: took Dad off to see the trench. But of course

1035
01:00:43,622 --> 01:00:47,942
Speaker 2: I don't think I listened and I followed, and I

1036
01:00:47,982 --> 01:00:49,862
Speaker 2: wish I never had, really.

1037
01:00:49,622 --> 01:00:52,822
Speaker 3: Because that memory was etched really there.

1038
01:00:53,822 --> 01:00:56,662
Speaker 1: Do you think that that visit in particular caused a

1039
01:00:56,702 --> 01:00:57,502
Speaker 1: lot of trauma for you?

1040
01:00:58,182 --> 01:01:01,782
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's sort of probably compounded the night

1041
01:01:02,102 --> 01:01:03,622
Speaker 2: the nightmares a little bit.

1042
01:01:03,942 --> 01:01:08,462
Speaker 1: Yes, Can you tell me about the mental impact as

1043
01:01:08,502 --> 01:01:12,022
Speaker 1: a child that this had on you. Looking back at

1044
01:01:12,022 --> 01:01:14,382
Speaker 1: the time, you know, in the seventies it wasn't really

1045
01:01:14,422 --> 01:01:15,422
Speaker 1: spoken about, was it.

1046
01:01:16,062 --> 01:01:18,982
Speaker 2: I suppose it's only as an adult you sort of

1047
01:01:19,022 --> 01:01:26,302
Speaker 2: look back and I guess reflect. I remember thinking as

1048
01:01:26,302 --> 01:01:32,582
Speaker 2: a children that the press interest was so great, and

1049
01:01:32,622 --> 01:01:35,662
Speaker 2: that went on for years, so it really dogged us

1050
01:01:35,662 --> 01:01:37,182
Speaker 2: for a long time.

1051
01:01:37,262 --> 01:01:41,302
Speaker 3: And I remember thinking, I guess.

1052
01:01:41,022 --> 01:01:44,662
Speaker 2: That survivor jammer a little bit, thinking oh, why have

1053
01:01:45,142 --> 01:01:51,262
Speaker 2: I survived but other children haven't, not particularly gifted or brilliant.

1054
01:01:51,382 --> 01:01:54,422
Speaker 2: I don't believe the press were always making us out

1055
01:01:54,502 --> 01:01:59,822
Speaker 2: to be victims. We didn't see ourselves as victims, probably

1056
01:01:59,862 --> 01:02:05,702
Speaker 2: embarrassed by the press interest. And I think we all

1057
01:02:05,702 --> 01:02:08,382
Speaker 2: look back. Adolescence is an awful time at the best

1058
01:02:08,382 --> 01:02:11,062
Speaker 2: of times, but sort of trying to navigate your way

1059
01:02:11,422 --> 01:02:14,462
Speaker 2: through that. And I know for me, when I reached

1060
01:02:14,502 --> 01:02:17,062
Speaker 2: eighteen and moved away from the Cassmane area, it was

1061
01:02:17,302 --> 01:02:20,662
Speaker 2: actually a big relief to be out of that area

1062
01:02:21,062 --> 01:02:24,302
Speaker 2: and not maybe associated with Faraday.

1063
01:02:24,782 --> 01:02:27,862
Speaker 1: The decision was also made pretty quickly after the kidnapping

1064
01:02:27,862 --> 01:02:30,622
Speaker 1: to close your school. What impact did that have?

1065
01:02:31,422 --> 01:02:34,982
Speaker 3: Probably didn't realize it at the time, but as school closed.

1066
01:02:34,542 --> 01:02:37,982
Speaker 2: And then we moved went to Hardcourt, which was a

1067
01:02:38,022 --> 01:02:42,142
Speaker 2: little bit bigger, and it don't realize it at the time,

1068
01:02:42,222 --> 01:02:45,182
Speaker 2: but we did. We lost our hub, we lost our

1069
01:02:45,622 --> 01:02:49,262
Speaker 2: place to meet, our place to be, and Jemma, we

1070
01:02:49,342 --> 01:02:53,582
Speaker 2: lost our stories because after nine Aeen seventy two, the

1071
01:02:53,622 --> 01:02:57,942
Speaker 2: only story told was that of the Faraday kidnapping. So

1072
01:02:58,542 --> 01:03:01,502
Speaker 2: in many ways, we lost who we were before that.

1073
01:03:01,542 --> 01:03:05,342
Speaker 2: We lost our stories. And our stories aren't particularly newsworthy

1074
01:03:05,502 --> 01:03:08,982
Speaker 2: or fascinating, but they were our stories. They were real,

1075
01:03:09,022 --> 01:03:12,582
Speaker 2: and they were who we were. And I guess writing

1076
01:03:12,622 --> 01:03:16,342
Speaker 2: this book virtually and I know everyone is fascinated by

1077
01:03:16,342 --> 01:03:19,702
Speaker 2: the Faraday kidnapping, but what has bought me great joys.

1078
01:03:19,822 --> 01:03:24,182
Speaker 2: It's taken me back to our life before that and

1079
01:03:24,222 --> 01:03:28,382
Speaker 2: who we were then and wanting to actually reclaim those

1080
01:03:28,422 --> 01:03:30,342
Speaker 2: memories and be proud.

1081
01:03:31,022 --> 01:03:33,702
Speaker 1: Obviously, the kidnappers went to jail for a long time,

1082
01:03:33,862 --> 01:03:36,902
Speaker 1: but kind of helped you move on hearing that both

1083
01:03:36,902 --> 01:03:39,462
Speaker 1: of them, at different times, actually escaped prison.

1084
01:03:40,182 --> 01:03:45,182
Speaker 2: How bizarre was that, Like these weren't minor offenders, these

1085
01:03:45,222 --> 01:03:50,102
Speaker 2: were serious offenders. They both escaped from different prisons, and

1086
01:03:50,302 --> 01:03:52,782
Speaker 2: Edward John Eastwood went on to kidnap another school at

1087
01:03:52,862 --> 01:03:56,102
Speaker 2: Woureen And I've just actually finished in all the talk

1088
01:03:56,262 --> 01:03:59,142
Speaker 2: down in the gibbs Land area and it was a

1089
01:03:59,582 --> 01:04:03,582
Speaker 2: wonderful experience, but the distress still there in some of

1090
01:04:03,622 --> 01:04:07,382
Speaker 2: those communities of that event is still helpful.

1091
01:04:07,782 --> 01:04:11,542
Speaker 1: You went on to become a nurse, maternal health nurse.

1092
01:04:11,902 --> 01:04:15,622
Speaker 1: You're a mum of three. Yes, you moved away from Faraday.

1093
01:04:16,422 --> 01:04:21,382
Speaker 1: How did the kidnapping follow you into adulthood even though

1094
01:04:21,422 --> 01:04:22,262
Speaker 1: you'd moved away.

1095
01:04:23,262 --> 01:04:27,702
Speaker 2: It's probably always been with me, and I guess, you know,

1096
01:04:27,982 --> 01:04:32,022
Speaker 2: for many, many years I ran away from my past.

1097
01:04:32,382 --> 01:04:35,102
Speaker 2: And you know, when I was married to my first husband,

1098
01:04:35,142 --> 01:04:39,422
Speaker 2: I had a different name, a different area I lived in, and.

1099
01:04:39,342 --> 01:04:43,142
Speaker 3: I remember thinking, I never ever ever have to.

1100
01:04:43,382 --> 01:04:45,902
Speaker 2: Say where who I am and where I come from

1101
01:04:46,102 --> 01:04:49,102
Speaker 2: unless I choose to. And then, you know, when that

1102
01:04:49,102 --> 01:04:51,462
Speaker 2: marriage ended, reverted back to my main name. And I

1103
01:04:51,462 --> 01:04:55,062
Speaker 2: think even then I was starting to reclaim who I was.

1104
01:04:56,022 --> 01:04:58,622
Speaker 2: As a maternal and child health nurs It's been an

1105
01:04:58,622 --> 01:05:04,342
Speaker 2: absolute privilege working with families and particularly mums, and I

1106
01:05:04,382 --> 01:05:10,262
Speaker 2: guess because of my experience, I became very unwell after

1107
01:05:10,542 --> 01:05:15,142
Speaker 2: I had my third baby in my thirties, with postnatal depression,

1108
01:05:15,502 --> 01:05:20,062
Speaker 2: maternal exhaustion, and a post traumatic stress disorder. So I'd

1109
01:05:20,102 --> 01:05:23,502
Speaker 2: been having a horrific nightmare since I was probably fourteen,

1110
01:05:24,182 --> 01:05:27,502
Speaker 2: and always the same, you know, nightmares a knife coming

1111
01:05:27,502 --> 01:05:30,262
Speaker 2: towards mirror, gun or a man in a ballet lava.

1112
01:05:31,142 --> 01:05:37,862
Speaker 2: So I was finally forced to seek counseling and assistance, remembering,

1113
01:05:38,102 --> 01:05:40,102
Speaker 2: you know, I was brought up in that era where

1114
01:05:40,142 --> 01:05:43,702
Speaker 2: you just get on. You don't talk about it, you

1115
01:05:43,862 --> 01:05:46,102
Speaker 2: just deal with what life throws at you and you

1116
01:05:46,222 --> 01:05:49,022
Speaker 2: move on. And maybe not a bad way, but maybe

1117
01:05:49,062 --> 01:05:53,502
Speaker 2: not the best way. So with my clinical practice, I

1118
01:05:53,502 --> 01:05:56,142
Speaker 2: think over the years, every now and then I would

1119
01:05:56,222 --> 01:05:59,062
Speaker 2: see it was usually a mum that for whatever reason,

1120
01:05:59,142 --> 01:06:03,182
Speaker 2: would be really struggling with their motherhood journey. They would

1121
01:06:03,222 --> 01:06:05,142
Speaker 2: love their babies dearly, but you could see there was

1122
01:06:05,182 --> 01:06:10,582
Speaker 2: something really not right, and I would often hope that

1123
01:06:10,622 --> 01:06:12,782
Speaker 2: I had the empathy to say to them, look, I

1124
01:06:12,782 --> 01:06:16,502
Speaker 2: can see you're really troubled about something. Is there something

1125
01:06:17,102 --> 01:06:21,462
Speaker 2: maybe that happened in your childhood that's really impacting on

1126
01:06:21,582 --> 01:06:24,102
Speaker 2: how you want a mother? And often, you know, I

1127
01:06:24,182 --> 01:06:27,822
Speaker 2: just feel so grateful when people felt that they could

1128
01:06:27,862 --> 01:06:31,822
Speaker 2: share their stories with me, that you know, something would

1129
01:06:31,862 --> 01:06:35,422
Speaker 2: come out like I was a victim of crime, or

1130
01:06:35,902 --> 01:06:40,862
Speaker 2: I have experienced family violence or child abuse as a

1131
01:06:40,902 --> 01:06:44,822
Speaker 2: young child, and it's really impacting on me now, and

1132
01:06:44,902 --> 01:06:47,382
Speaker 2: it often does after you have a little baby. So

1133
01:06:48,102 --> 01:06:51,582
Speaker 2: you know, I've often been able to say, well, I

1134
01:06:51,622 --> 01:06:56,862
Speaker 2: was able to say, please find your voice, don't stop

1135
01:06:56,982 --> 01:07:02,982
Speaker 2: talking and get some good skilled counseling, because if you don't,

1136
01:07:04,102 --> 01:07:07,222
Speaker 2: it will keep wearing its head and really impacting on

1137
01:07:07,262 --> 01:07:09,982
Speaker 2: your life. Because I know that's what happened to me,

1138
01:07:10,062 --> 01:07:12,262
Speaker 2: and I don't share my stories, of course.

1139
01:07:12,422 --> 01:07:14,782
Speaker 3: And when people actually keep talking to me.

1140
01:07:14,822 --> 01:07:18,462
Speaker 2: And go off and get counseling, that always has given

1141
01:07:18,502 --> 01:07:22,222
Speaker 2: me a great deal of satisfaction to think that maybe

1142
01:07:22,222 --> 01:07:25,822
Speaker 2: I paid a little, little small part in someone's journey

1143
01:07:26,222 --> 01:07:26,782
Speaker 2: to healing.

1144
01:07:27,902 --> 01:07:32,542
Speaker 1: No, that's really nice, really beautiful. I understand that, and

1145
01:07:32,622 --> 01:07:35,422
Speaker 1: I can so imagine why this would have been hard,

1146
01:07:35,542 --> 01:07:40,182
Speaker 1: That sending your eldest child to primary school was a

1147
01:07:40,262 --> 01:07:42,542
Speaker 1: really kind of troubling moment for you.

1148
01:07:43,342 --> 01:07:45,662
Speaker 2: Yes, it really triggered me, you know, like I had

1149
01:07:45,662 --> 01:07:48,942
Speaker 2: a new baby and I sent my oldest little girl

1150
01:07:49,102 --> 01:07:54,902
Speaker 2: at five to primary school and it yeah, yeah, it

1151
01:07:54,982 --> 01:07:56,702
Speaker 2: was not a good time for me.

1152
01:07:56,902 --> 01:08:00,342
Speaker 3: It really did trigger. It sent me back into a

1153
01:08:00,462 --> 01:08:03,582
Speaker 3: very dark, dark place. It did.

1154
01:08:04,142 --> 01:08:08,622
Speaker 1: How has writing your story after all these years helped you.

1155
01:08:09,582 --> 01:08:13,062
Speaker 2: It's taken me on a journey and it's actually led

1156
01:08:13,182 --> 01:08:18,542
Speaker 2: me home to Faraday, which is I almost felt like

1157
01:08:18,582 --> 01:08:24,862
Speaker 2: I've come full circle. It's been wonderful to meet up

1158
01:08:24,902 --> 01:08:28,182
Speaker 2: with so many people from my past. You know, people

1159
01:08:28,182 --> 01:08:32,142
Speaker 2: have worked with family members, you know, the daughter all

1160
01:08:32,142 --> 01:08:35,942
Speaker 2: over Victoria who have all come to author talks and

1161
01:08:35,942 --> 01:08:38,462
Speaker 2: and we share our stories now about you know, the

1162
01:08:38,582 --> 01:08:43,102
Speaker 2: farm and grandma and.

1163
01:08:41,662 --> 01:08:44,462
Speaker 3: My sisters, and we're talking about our school days and

1164
01:08:44,502 --> 01:08:47,262
Speaker 3: we've never done that. We've never done that.

1165
01:08:47,542 --> 01:08:52,942
Speaker 2: So it's been an amazing journey and unexpected that there

1166
01:08:52,982 --> 01:08:56,862
Speaker 2: has been so much interest really in the book.

1167
01:08:57,302 --> 01:09:01,382
Speaker 1: It sounds like it's allowed you to kind of reclaim Faraday.

1168
01:09:02,702 --> 01:09:05,622
Speaker 2: And I must say, you know, you know, you know,

1169
01:09:05,662 --> 01:09:08,422
Speaker 2: I said, oh, I'm really nervous about doing this podcast

1170
01:09:08,542 --> 01:09:13,942
Speaker 2: because I don't particularly enjoy talking about the kidnapping. I'll

1171
01:09:13,982 --> 01:09:16,942
Speaker 2: be really honest, I don't enjoy talking about it. But

1172
01:09:17,022 --> 01:09:20,182
Speaker 2: what I do enjoy talking about is I enjoy talking

1173
01:09:20,182 --> 01:09:24,382
Speaker 2: about Faraday. I enjoy talking about our school, I enjoy

1174
01:09:24,502 --> 01:09:27,902
Speaker 2: talking about our life and so I feel like, yes,

1175
01:09:28,142 --> 01:09:33,942
Speaker 2: I've reclaimed it and I've reframed the narrative anyway for me.

1176
01:09:34,502 --> 01:09:42,782
Speaker 1: Anyway, Thanks to Robin for telling us her story. True

1177
01:09:42,822 --> 01:09:45,942
Speaker 1: Crime Conversations is a Muma mea podcast hosted and produced

1178
01:09:45,982 --> 01:09:49,182
Speaker 1: by me Jemma Bath and Tarlie Blackman, with audio design

1179
01:09:49,422 --> 01:09:52,342
Speaker 1: by Jacob Brown. Thanks so much for listening. I'll be

1180
01:09:52,382 --> 01:09:54,982
Speaker 1: back next week with another True Crime Conversation