1 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. 2 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 2: Mamma Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and 3 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 2: waters that this podcast is recorded on. 4 00:00:20,439 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: Do you ever reread an email that you have sent 5 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 1: and think to yourself, I am so good at tricking 6 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:32,480 Speaker 1: people into thinking I'm a functional adult For Mamma Mia, 7 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:35,879 Speaker 1: I'm your host a Shandy Dante. Welcome to But Are 8 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: You Happy? The podcast that's basically your emotional hangover cure? 9 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,480 Speaker 2: And I'm doctor Anastagia Hernis, a clinical psychologist passionate about 10 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 2: happiness and mental health. Let me ask you this, do 11 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 2: you ever get anxious about doing those so called simple 12 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 2: adult tasks like booking an appointment, answering a phone call, 13 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 2: or figuring out what to cook for dinner? Because suddenly 14 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 2: being a grown up feels way harder than anyone warned us. 15 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: Yes, so why is calling someone suddenly the emotional equivalent 16 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: of climbing a mountain? I swear text ruined us. 17 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,479 Speaker 2: You're not alone. A lot of young people feel this way, 18 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 2: and it's often rooted in a fear of failure, social judgments, 19 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,119 Speaker 2: or just not knowing what to expect. That's why today 20 00:01:22,559 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 2: we're unpacking adulthood, anxiety, and how to build real confidence 21 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 2: and confidence in everyday life. 22 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: This is such a relatable topic. Let's get into it 23 00:01:33,479 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: adult in one on one. I thought we could kick 24 00:01:37,759 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: this off with a little bit of psychology. What's actually 25 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 1: going on for us mentally and emotionally when we're transitioning 26 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 1: into adulthood or really any major new chapter in life. 27 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 2: We're finding ourselves as clichd as that sounds right, We're 28 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 2: going through a change, and often that results in a 29 00:01:55,600 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 2: change in identity. When we transition from those teenage years 30 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,999 Speaker 2: into early adulthood, we're really going through a process of 31 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,079 Speaker 2: discovering who we are in the world. What's my identity? 32 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:09,679 Speaker 2: Who am I? What do I like? What do I dislike? 33 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: You know? 34 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 2: How do I navigate new things that I've never had 35 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 2: to do before. How do I enter this new stage 36 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 2: of my life and do it with some degree of 37 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 2: feeling competent and some degree of grace and clarity as 38 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 2: to how it's all meant to work. So it really 39 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 2: can be quite a stressful and difficult time for people 40 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 2: because there's so much change involved. And as we've said 41 00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 2: before on the podcast, we know that where creatures of habits. 42 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 2: We don't like change. Change is uncomfortable, it's unpleasant, it's unexpected. 43 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 2: We don't know what's on the other side of change necessarily, 44 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 2: but it is necessary. But it can be a hard time. 45 00:02:48,640 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: And it's interesting you just spoke about how it can 46 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: be scary because we don't know what the next chapter 47 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 1: of our life is going to look like. And I 48 00:02:56,920 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: feel like it's this ongoing narrative like it is, it's 49 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: always going to look uncertain. So could you talk to 50 00:03:02,920 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: me a little bit more about that? Why do we 51 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: feel so much anxiety around the unknown? 52 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 2: It's new, and with newness comes that scary feeling. Right 53 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 2: if I'm finishing school and entering UNI or starting a 54 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 2: job for the first time, if I've never done that before, 55 00:03:20,640 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 2: that's a new experience. And yes, there's something to be 56 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 2: said for cognitively or mentally knowing what that experience is 57 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 2: going to be like, But it's another thing to actually 58 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 2: be in it and living it and living out the 59 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 2: enjoyable parts of it and living out the hard parts 60 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 2: of it as well. So it's one thing to know 61 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 2: what to expect, another thing to actually experience it. 62 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: So when it comes to transitioning to a new stage 63 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: of life. I know you spoke a little bit more 64 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: around anxiety. Are there any other typical emotions that would 65 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: naturally come up? 66 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 2: Absolutely? A big one is actually a feeling of grief 67 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 2: that comes with loss. Right, Yeah, So as we transition 68 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 2: out of those teenage years and into adulthood, there's lots 69 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 2: of exciting new things that come with that. They can 70 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 2: be scary, but they can be exciting, But it can 71 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 2: also be sad to kind of leave the pre chapter behind. 72 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 2: That goes with any life transition, right. It comes you know, 73 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 2: if we change jobs and we're sad to be kind 74 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 2: of leaving our old workplace behind and entering a new one. 75 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 2: Any kind of life transition comes with leaving something and 76 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 2: entering a new And as exciting as that can be, 77 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 2: there's also that that grief and sadness about what was. 78 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 1: It gets me thinking about even in year twelve. I 79 00:04:34,840 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: mean that was a really long time ago for me, 80 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: but how exciting that last day of school was. And 81 00:04:40,280 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: you know, you do like prank Day and you do 82 00:04:42,280 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: all those fun things you do in year twelve, and 83 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: you feel this level of power because you're at the 84 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: top of your game, and then you leave school and 85 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, you just feel like you're 86 00:04:52,840 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 1: back at square one. But it's funny because I feel 87 00:04:55,280 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: like that pattern, naturally will always happen no matter what 88 00:04:57,880 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: stage of life you're in, right. 89 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 2: And it's so funny you say that, because I think 90 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 2: back to my year twelve experience, and I remember a 91 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,840 Speaker 2: very different experience. I remember being really sad to leave 92 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 2: school because I was like, this is so f familiar, 93 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 2: it's so comfortable. All my friends are here, I know 94 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,599 Speaker 2: my teachers, Like, it was this really comforting environment for me, 95 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 2: and I was really sad to leave it behind. 96 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, look, and I mean this kind of speaks 97 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 1: to how, you know, different emotions come up for all 98 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: of us no matter what transition we're in as well. 99 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: And it's interesting we talk about transitions because a lot 100 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: of the work that I've done with young people but 101 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: also women in general, is around this concept of right 102 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: of passage and actually taking them through a process to 103 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 1: help them feel more prepared. And it's kind of what 104 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: you were saying before. It's like, we don't actually know 105 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: what it looks like on the other side, but who 106 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: do you want to show up to be? Because you 107 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: know It's something that we've spoken a lot about. At 108 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: the end of the day, we can only control how 109 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: we can show up, right, So it's finding that balance 110 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: between Okay, I'm just gonna allow whatever emotions come up, 111 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: and also like, who do I want to be? Like 112 00:06:01,280 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 1: I get to recreate myself, you know. So, Yeah, there's 113 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: so much that can come out of transitions. 114 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 2: It's the identity that you're talking about, right, Like, yeah, 115 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 2: rediscovering defining my identity. And that speaks to such an 116 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 2: important point because when we talk about core emotional needs, 117 00:06:18,280 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 2: as we've discussed in the previous episode as well, we 118 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 2: know that the core emotional need we have around identity 119 00:06:25,840 --> 00:06:29,160 Speaker 2: is also linked to competence. Right, So when I go 120 00:06:29,280 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 2: through life transitions and life stages, I always need to 121 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 2: feel like I have a sense of competence in myself 122 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 2: and that comes with having a strong sense of identity. 123 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 2: And what I mean by competence is essentially this strong 124 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 2: internal feeling of capability. I need to feel like I 125 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 2: am capable of completing tasks or being able to achieve things, 126 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 2: whatever those things might be, right, I need to feel 127 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,719 Speaker 2: capable and competent in my ability to do things. But 128 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 2: that doesn't necessarily mean I need to know how to 129 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 2: do everything right, because none of us do. So I 130 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 2: need to feel comfortable and competent that I can figure 131 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 2: it out. So, for example, I don't know how to 132 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 2: change a tire to you. 133 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 1: Nope, no, right, and I'm thankfully I've never had that 134 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: situation me neither. 135 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 2: It's not a skill that I'm competent in, but I 136 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 2: feel competent enough that I could solve that problem. If 137 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 2: I got a flat tire, I would know who to call. 138 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 2: I wouldn't necessarily know how to change the tire myself, 139 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 2: but i'd know who to call to be able to 140 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 2: figure out that situation. So part of that transitioning into 141 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 2: adulthood is that maybe we no longer rely on our 142 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 2: parents or our family for answering those questions for us, 143 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 2: but we discover how to answer those questions for ourselves. 144 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: And what I'm hearing too, it's really starting to build 145 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: that sense of autonomy and learning to make decisions. Even 146 00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: if it is getting support, that's still a decision, right, 147 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: You're like, oh, I'm choosing, but it's that act of 148 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: doing it for yourself. 149 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 2: Yes, I'm doing I'm taking exactly I'm taking that act 150 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 2: to find the help that I need to seek, the 151 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 2: answers that I need to go google, the answers that 152 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 2: I need, whatever it might be. I can do that 153 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 2: and I can do it for myself. 154 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: That's so good. It's interesting. There was something that you 155 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: mentioned before, and I don't know if I'm sure there's 156 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: listeners out there that have that inner perfectionist, because I 157 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: definitely have a perfectionist side to me, And when you 158 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: speak about competence, it can be scary for anyone that 159 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: is a perfectionist, and I'm definitely one myself because the 160 00:08:36,079 --> 00:08:40,079 Speaker 1: fear of doing something wrong is really hard. And you know, 161 00:08:40,199 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: when you're building a new skill and you're in a 162 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: new chapter in your life, that's naturally going to happen. 163 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,319 Speaker 1: So I guess the question I have is why is 164 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 1: it so important to be making mistakes as an adult. 165 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 2: Yes, we build our sense of resilience, right, it's not 166 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 2: a matter of if. But when mistakes are inevitable, we're 167 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 2: all going to make mistakes. If we go into certain 168 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 2: situations going I'm going to get this perfect and I'm 169 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 2: not going to make mistakes, We're actually going to be 170 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 2: doing ourselves a disservice because we all make mistakes, right, 171 00:09:11,560 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 2: How many mistakes have we made during this process? 172 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about now, you really 173 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: a perfectionist. 174 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 2: But mistakes happen, right, Mistakes, Mistakes are inevitable, and if 175 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 2: we set ourselves the expectation that we have to get 176 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 2: things perfect, we are going to end up with such 177 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 2: a massive burden of pressure on our shoulders to always 178 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 2: get things right or to always give one hundred percent, 179 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 2: And at the end of the day, it's just not reality. 180 00:09:40,560 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: So I know this whole conversation is based around adulting, right, 181 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: but when does adult tine actually start? Like, is there 182 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: actually a set point? 183 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 2: It's a good question, right, because like the law says 184 00:09:55,560 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 2: that when we turn eighteen, we can, you know, legally 185 00:09:58,560 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 2: do certain adult things like drink, et cetera. Yeah, but 186 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 2: from a neuroscientific perspective, we know that the brain is 187 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 2: not actually really fully developed until about twenty five years old. 188 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 2: And so that's why for those eighteen to twenty five 189 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 2: year olds out there, you might find yourselves doing some 190 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 2: things that in hindsight you might regret at times, or 191 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 2: things that feel little bit more impulsive because those again 192 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 2: the prefrontal cortex of the brain, that part of the 193 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 2: brain that's responsible for decision making and planning and being 194 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 2: a bit more responsible essentially, is not as fully developed 195 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 2: until we reach the age of about twenty five, give 196 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 2: or take. 197 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: So what I'm basically hearing is that it's not all 198 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: on us to build that competency, right, Like, should we 199 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 1: have other people around us supporting us, like the adults 200 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: in our life when we were younger. Yeah. 201 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 2: Look this, as I said, this is a core emotional need, 202 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 2: which means it is there from birth, right from our 203 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 2: very early years, all the way through our life. So 204 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 2: when we're kids, absolutely we need the adults in our 205 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 2: lives to help us build competence. 206 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: Right. 207 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 2: So that could be as simple as a parent teaching 208 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 2: us how to tie our shoelaces. Right, But then as 209 00:11:09,680 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 2: a kid, we try and we stumble, and we maybe 210 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 2: cry and we get frustrated, and they go, no, come on, 211 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 2: you can do it. Remember you're going to put the 212 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 2: loop around here and do the bunny is and however 213 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 2: you tie your shoelacers. So they teach us, but they 214 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 2: also support us through that period of frustration that we 215 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 2: will inevitably get when we're not meeting the mark immediately, right, 216 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 2: because it takes a lot of goes to learn how 217 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 2: to tie your shoelacers or ride a bike, or learn 218 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 2: how to do neat hand riding right. So from a 219 00:11:38,560 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 2: very early age, we need the adults in our lives 220 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 2: to help support us to learn the skills, but then 221 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 2: ride out that frustration that comes when we can't automatically 222 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 2: do it perfect the first time. And what we see 223 00:11:53,680 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 2: is that where things can go wrong is when kids 224 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 2: have too much done for them, So the kind of 225 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 2: over protective parents that always do everything for them, or 226 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 2: as soon as the kids struggles, they go no, no, it's okay, 227 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 2: I'll jump in and i'll help you and I'll do 228 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 2: it for you. 229 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: Totally. 230 00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 2: There's a difference between doing it for you versus supporting 231 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 2: you to do it. Or if kids don't get enough 232 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 2: support in the early years to build that sense of 233 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 2: competence themselves, that's when things can kind of go a 234 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 2: bit wrong and we see the negative impacts later on 235 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 2: in life. 236 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: And I think what I'm also hearing is, you know, 237 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: the adults in a child's life, let's say when we 238 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: were younger, if we got that support they're essentially role 239 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 1: modeling how we should be showing up in these interactions. 240 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: And you know, the parents role modeling. You know, when 241 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 1: we're frustrated, we kind of just you know, we calm down, 242 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: we speak in a certain tone. You know, I'm not 243 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:48,959 Speaker 1: a parent yet. And that's going to I mean, that's 244 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 1: going to be another whole season whenever that comes. But yeah, 245 00:12:52,680 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: like they're really without them realizing how much that stuff 246 00:12:56,560 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: is subconsciously really shaping the way that they can show 247 00:12:59,560 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: up later on in life. 248 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 2: Absolutely, And if children can master that skill of being 249 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 2: able to manage frustration or anxiety or stress when trying 250 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:12,959 Speaker 2: new things, that's going to show up later in life. 251 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 2: They're going to have more confidence and more self esteem 252 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 2: to do the hard stuff, to take the calculated risks, 253 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 2: you know, to go on that solo travel adventure, or 254 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 2: to put in the application for the new job that 255 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 2: there might be a bit nervous about getting rejected for, 256 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 2: but they're going to try anyway. 257 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 3: Right. 258 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 2: We see that building competence in those early years really 259 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 2: helps create adults who have a strong sense of self 260 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 2: esteem and identity. And I also want to jump in 261 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 2: and say the flip side to this, is really important 262 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 2: as well, where there are stakes. If people do not 263 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 2: master this sense of competence for their adult life, right, 264 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 2: people don't develop that strong sense of competence and confidence 265 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 2: in themselves to be able to do new things and 266 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 2: handle new situations. We find that adults can have low 267 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 2: self esteem, low self worth, and anxiety right because we've 268 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 2: talked about anxiety before, But anxiety is rooted in me 269 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 2: overestimating the likelihood that things will go wrong and not 270 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 2: trusting that I'll be able to deal with it if 271 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 2: they do go wrong. So I might overestimate the likelihood 272 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 2: that I get a flat tire, and I underestimate my 273 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 2: ability to deal with it if it does happen. 274 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: So, Anastasia, when I look at you, I feel like 275 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: you're a fully functioning adult. 276 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 2: Yes, I fooled you all. 277 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: I love that. But I guess what I'm curious about. 278 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: Have you had any wobbly moments on the road to 279 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: becoming an adult? Oh? Yes, oh yes, us the US. 280 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 2: A key one that comes to mind is before I 281 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 2: turned eighteen and started at UNI, I'd never caught a 282 00:14:56,200 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 2: train on my own, right, So I felt very anxious 283 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 2: about catching trains and the first day that I ever 284 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 2: went to UNI. My dad caught the train with me 285 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 2: to show me. He came with me, and then I 286 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 2: managed to go back myself. But I remember one day 287 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 2: I was on the train coming home from UNI and 288 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 2: I accidentally missed my stop that I was meant to 289 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 2: get off at, and I ended up like two stops 290 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 2: further down, and I got off the train and I 291 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 2: called my mom virtually in tears, and I was like, 292 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 2: can you please come and pick me up. I don't 293 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 2: know where I am, so you can just get on 294 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 2: the train and go back the other way. I was like, no, 295 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 2: what if I end up in Queensland or something? You know, Yes, 296 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 2: the overwhelms. I've definitely had those moments, and gosh, I 297 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 2: look back at them and I laugh and giggle because 298 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 2: I know eighteen year old me was genuinely stressed out, 299 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 2: and now I think, gosh, I just didn't trust that 300 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 2: I could figure it out. 301 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: And look at you. Now, you're able to catch a 302 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: train like a pro now. 303 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 2: Right all on my own. 304 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: So what if someone's too close to their parents, is 305 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: it harder for them to become competent adults. 306 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's closeness with our parents and then there's 307 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 2: enmeshment right close is fine? Enmeshment creates problems. So when 308 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 2: I talk about in meshment in families or between sort 309 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 2: of kids, adult kids and their parents, I'm really talking 310 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 2: about this sense of blurred boundaries in relationships. So this 311 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 2: might be where someone feels like there's a lack of 312 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 2: privacy in the relationship that they have with their parents, 313 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 2: or they feel compelled or obliged to do what their 314 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 2: parents tell them to do. And this might be with 315 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 2: major life decisions, so parents tell them what sort of 316 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 2: career they should pursue, or tell them what sort of 317 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 2: partner they should choose to be with. So there's this 318 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 2: real blurring and a lack of sense of identity and 319 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 2: independence in the relationships. It could be that your parents 320 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 2: end up making a lot of decisions for you. Your parents 321 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 2: expect a lot of emotional support from you, and vice versa. 322 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 2: You expect a lot of emotional support from them, but 323 00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 2: they're just essentially excessively involved in your life where it 324 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 2: hinders you forming your own sense of individuality and identity. 325 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:07,919 Speaker 1: And when you speak about the enmeshment piece, is it 326 00:17:07,919 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 1: coming from both parties, like the child, the parents or 327 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: can it be only one way? 328 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 2: It can be both absolutely, and what we usually find is, 329 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 2: you know, sometimes this can be a bit of a 330 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,679 Speaker 2: cultural thing as well. But often a child will have 331 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 2: grown up in a household where there is this flavor 332 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 2: of enmeshment. So it's not like suddenly they hit adulthood 333 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,640 Speaker 2: and the family becomes enmeshed. It's sort of usually been 334 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 2: there from the start in some way. But it's really 335 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 2: obvious once someone reaches adulthood because that's the time where 336 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 2: they're really forming their own sense of self and identity, 337 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 2: but that's hindered by the closeness of the relationship with 338 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 2: their parents. 339 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: After the break, Doctor Anastasia is going to teach us 340 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: how we can build more competence and confidence in adulthood. Okay, Anastasia, 341 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 1: how do we do it? Tell us how do. 342 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 2: We become competent and confident adults? 343 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 1: Right? 344 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 2: My key takeaway word here is exposure. For anything that 345 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 2: gives us anxiety, the more we expose ourselves to it, 346 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 2: the less anxious will feel. So this is actually a 347 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,639 Speaker 2: fun one. I really like doing this with clients in 348 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 2: the clinic because it can be well, it's a bit 349 00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 2: anxiety provoking, but it's also fun. 350 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: That's fun for you, it's fun for me. 351 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 2: But essentially, what I would encourage people to do is 352 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,920 Speaker 2: develop a hierarchy for themselves. So get a piece of paper, 353 00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 2: get a note out in your phone, write out the 354 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 2: numbers one to ten, and you're going to set yourself 355 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 2: a series of tasks and steps to work through. So 356 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 2: your one out of ten task is going to be 357 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 2: something that gives you a one out of ten anxiety. 358 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 2: Your ten out of ten task is going to be 359 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 2: something that gives you a ten out of ten anxiety. 360 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 2: So say, for example, you need to call up the 361 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:05,360 Speaker 2: doctors and book in a GP checkup for yourself. Maybe 362 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,119 Speaker 2: that's a four out of ten. Put it next to 363 00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:09,959 Speaker 2: the four. Maybe you need to call up and get 364 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 2: your checked out by a mechanic, and maybe that's like 365 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,679 Speaker 2: seven because I don't know when I go to the mechanic, 366 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 2: I'm not always sure what to ask for. So another 367 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:19,360 Speaker 2: bit higher up your hierarchy. 368 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: One hundred percent. It's like another whole language. 369 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:25,439 Speaker 2: Yes, okay, So maybe you have to learn how to 370 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 2: cook a new meal for yourself and that gives you 371 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,439 Speaker 2: a bit of anxiety. Put that. Put that wherever it 372 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 2: fits on the hierarchy. But what I encourage people to 373 00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 2: do is come up with about six or seven steps 374 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:37,640 Speaker 2: for themselves. You don't need to find one for every 375 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 2: single number, but the rate them in order from lowest 376 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:44,479 Speaker 2: level of anxiety of adulting up to highst Maybe ten 377 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 2: out of ten is doing your taxes. 378 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 1: Oh gosh, we love our taxes. 379 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 2: Right, fine, fine, what that ten out of ten is? 380 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 2: And work your way up to it. So you're gonna 381 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 2: set yourself small but achievable goals, and don't do it 382 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 2: just once. The key to overcoming anxiety and exposure is 383 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 2: doing it multiple times. If you've set yourself the task 384 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 2: of cooking a new meal, cook the new meal five 385 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 2: times over, or cook five new different meals. Or if 386 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 2: you need to call up and book doctor's appointments, don't 387 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 2: just do it once. Or if calling the doctor to 388 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:21,159 Speaker 2: book the appointment feels too hard, set yourself the first 389 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 2: task of just calling to find out how much it costs, 390 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 2: and that's the first phone call. Right. Set this schedule 391 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 2: for yourself and work through it systematically. It's one thing 392 00:20:31,120 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 2: for us to tell ourselves everything will be fine, which 393 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 2: it usually is. Right for calling the doctor, nothing that 394 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 2: bad will probably go wrong. It's one thing for us 395 00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 2: to tell ourselves that and another thing to experience it. 396 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:50,640 Speaker 2: Our brain and our body learn through the experiences we have. 397 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 2: If I can take my car to the mechanic and 398 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:59,160 Speaker 2: do it successfully, I internalize that message of competence of like, hey, 399 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 2: I was worried about that thing. I didn't know how 400 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,159 Speaker 2: to do it. I had to google mechanics near me 401 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 2: and find one to take the car to. But you 402 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,679 Speaker 2: know what, I did it and it was fine and 403 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 2: look at me. So we internalize that self esteem that 404 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 2: comes with completing those tasks. And if I do it 405 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:18,879 Speaker 2: a few times, not just once, I'm going to feel 406 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,400 Speaker 2: even more confident and secure in my capacity to do 407 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 2: these things. 408 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: I really love this, And something I am wondering about 409 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: is should we have an accountability buddy with us? Because 410 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: I mean, it's all well and good to put a 411 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: list together and put some ratings around how anxiety provoking 412 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 1: it is, but should we be still getting a bit 413 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: of that support. 414 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 2: Absolutely share the list with someone if you like. If 415 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,879 Speaker 2: you've got a friend who's at the same life stage 416 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 2: as you or struggling with similar things, sit down together, 417 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 2: write out a plan together and keep each other accountable 418 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 2: with doing it, or share it with your parents. If 419 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 2: you're like, hey, you know what, I'm building my sense 420 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,639 Speaker 2: of independence. My ten out of ten is I'm going 421 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,360 Speaker 2: to go on a trip on my own, or I'm 422 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:04,880 Speaker 2: going to get comfortable sitting in a cafe on my own, 423 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 2: whatever it might be. Share it with them, share it 424 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 2: with the people around you to get that support, and 425 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,399 Speaker 2: give yourself a little nice pat on the back. At 426 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:18,160 Speaker 2: the end of each step you complete, give yourself a reward. 427 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 2: Set the reward in the schedule. Right, So if you're like, 428 00:22:22,120 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 2: you know what, if I managed to do my taxes, 429 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 2: I'm going to treat myself to a nice dinner. I'm gonna, 430 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 2: you know, go to a movie or whatever it might be. 431 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 2: That feels like a bit of a reward. When we 432 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 2: do hard things, we want to give ourselves a reward 433 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 2: as well. 434 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: I already know what my next reward is. What is 435 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 1: a cup of match so predictable? 436 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 2: I'm not going a reward if you do it every day? 437 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 2: Show I don't know. 438 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 1: I was at the reward so good. Okay, So what 439 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,879 Speaker 1: happens if you have gone to the mechanic and you're like, 440 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: yay adulting, and then you find out you've been ripped off, 441 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,200 Speaker 1: Like that would impact your confidence? 442 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,400 Speaker 2: Right when adulting goes wrong? Yes, because we don't always 443 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 2: get it right. Yeah. Absolutely, Look, and that's normal and natural. 444 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 2: We'll have moments where we quote unquote fail. I didn't 445 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 2: even really like to use the term fail. But things 446 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 2: go wrong which may or may not be our fault. 447 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: Right. 448 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,919 Speaker 2: Sometimes it will be our fault, other times it won't be. 449 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,719 Speaker 2: But that's part of the process. Part of competence is 450 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 2: not just being able to do everything right. It's being 451 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 2: able to trust myself that there will be successful moments. 452 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,920 Speaker 2: There will be moments that are less successful, but I'll 453 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 2: be able to get through them. 454 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 3: Right. 455 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 2: If we ask ourselves, what's the worst that could happen, 456 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 2: I'll be able to cope with it. So what's the 457 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 2: worst that happened? The mechanic ripped me off? Oh shit? Okay, 458 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 2: now what now? What am I going to do? How 459 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 2: Am I going to use this as an opportunity to 460 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 2: learn for the next time? Because we probably won't make 461 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 2: that mistake too many more times? 462 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, and we won't be going back to that same mechanic. No. 463 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: After the shotbreak, we hear from a woman who's scared 464 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: to travel solo in her twenties. Stay with us, Berb. 465 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,719 Speaker 2: Barb Bibby, I'm proving a serious Cristy to the RB 466 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 2: iving a crisis. 467 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 1: Okay, we've reached that time in our episode where we 468 00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: answer a question or dilemma from one of you our 469 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: but are you happy listeners? This dilemma comes from Lara. 470 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,120 Speaker 3: I'm in my late twenties and I keep telling myself 471 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 3: I want to do a solo trip. But every time 472 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 3: I actually start planning, the anxiety kicks in. I worry 473 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 3: I feel lost, lonely, or completely out of my debt. 474 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,399 Speaker 3: What if I can't figure out transport? What if something 475 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 3: goes wrong and I have no one to turn to. 476 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 3: I see other people slowly traveling and thriving, and part 477 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 3: of me knows I could do it too, But the 478 00:24:46,120 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 3: fear always wins. I don't want to keep waiting for 479 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 3: someone to come with me. How do I move past 480 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 3: the fear and just go? 481 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 2: Oh, Lara? Can I just say I have been you right? 482 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 2: I have been the twenty year old nervous to do 483 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 2: the solo travel. But I am so so glad I 484 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 2: did it Now. If you're feeling anxious, remember anxietyiety is 485 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,879 Speaker 2: not a bad thing. We talked about this last season, right, 486 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,680 Speaker 2: we did a whole episode on anxiety. Anxiety is not bad. 487 00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 2: Anxiety is giving you a message that's worth listening to. Right, 488 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 2: If you're anxious about going on a trip and getting lost, 489 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 2: that's information that your body is telling you that you 490 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 2: should listen to. So don't fear the anxiety. But my 491 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 2: recommendation is this, answer the questions that are coming up 492 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,400 Speaker 2: for you. So what if you get lost? What will 493 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 2: you do? What if you lose your wallet? What are 494 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 2: you going to do? What if you feel lonely while 495 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 2: you're solo traveling? What are you going to do? Then 496 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 2: find those what if questions, because it's the what if 497 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 2: questions that give us anxiety, and answer them for yourself. 498 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,680 Speaker 2: There's no problem at all with having those backup contingency 499 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 2: plans in place, because that's actually going to give you 500 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 2: the confidence to step onto the plane and go and 501 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 2: do the trip. So listen to the anxiety, lean into 502 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 2: what it's telling you, and find the solutions to those 503 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 2: worst case scenarios because the reality is, sometimes worst case 504 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,919 Speaker 2: scenario does happen. You might get lonely, you might get lost, 505 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 2: you might not know how to navigate the transport. But 506 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,199 Speaker 2: what you need to be able to do is trust 507 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,639 Speaker 2: yourself that if that happens, you'll be able to figure 508 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 2: it out. So go in and go with a plan. 509 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 2: And at the end of the day, remember our brains 510 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 2: are unfortunately hard wired to worry. From an evolutionary perspective, 511 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 2: they're designed to be on alert for threats and danger. 512 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:39,919 Speaker 2: So your brain will tell you about the things that 513 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 2: you should be worried about. That's okay, that's normal. The 514 00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:48,119 Speaker 2: reality is, though, that often these worries don't actually come true. 515 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 2: The things that we're worrying about are simply just worries, 516 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 2: they're not actually reality. So keep that in mind as well. 517 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 2: And if it's still all feeling a little bit overwhelming, 518 00:26:58,120 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 2: I recommend starting small. Start with a weekend away, Start 519 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 2: with a small domestic travel trip before you go overseas. 520 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 2: Start small and build your way up. 521 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:15,640 Speaker 1: Good luck, Lara, Anastasia, we've covered a lot of ground. 522 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: Can you give us the main takeaways from today's episode. 523 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 2: First of all, learning to become an adult takes time 524 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 2: and practice. It doesn't just magically happen the moment we 525 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 2: wake up on our eighteenth birthday. Second, as we go 526 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 2: through life transitions, our identity changes and shifts. This is normal. Third, 527 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 2: if you're fearing certain adult tasks, set yourself small goals 528 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:42,640 Speaker 2: to build up and work towards. And lastly, give yourself 529 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 2: a pat on the back every time you achieve a 530 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 2: task you've never done before or didn't think you could handle. 531 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,439 Speaker 1: If you have a burning question for us, there are 532 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: a few ways to get in touch with us. Links 533 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 1: are in the show notes. 534 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 2: And remember, while I am a psychologist, this podcast isn't 535 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,679 Speaker 2: a diagnostic tool, and the advice and ideas we present 536 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 2: here should always take into account your personal medical history. 537 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,879 Speaker 2: The executive producer of But Are You Happy? Is Niama Brown. 538 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Charlie Blackman. 539 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 2: Sound design and editing by Jacob Brown. 540 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:15,680 Speaker 1: I'm a Shani Dante and. 541 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,399 Speaker 2: I'm doctor Anastasia Heronus. The names and stories of clients 542 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 2: discussed have been changed for the purpose of maintaining anonymity. 543 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 2: If this conversation brought up any difficult feelings for you, 544 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 2: we have links for more resources in the show notes 545 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,880 Speaker 2: around the topics we discussed today. You can also reach 546 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 2: out to organizations like Beyond Blue or Lifeline if you're 547 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 2: wanting more immediate support. Tune in next week as we 548 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 2: unpack what porn actually does to our brain chemistry and 549 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 2: how it might be influencing our romantic and sexual relationships, 550 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 2: often without us even realizing. Thank you so much for 551 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 2: listening to today's But Are You Happy? Episode. We're keen 552 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 2: to understand how you're looking after your mental health these days. 553 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 2: There's a survey link in the show notes. It only 554 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 2: takes a few minutes and you'll go in the drawer 555 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 2: to win a one thousand dollar gift voucher. We'd love 556 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 2: to hear from you. 557 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, See you next time.