WEBVTT - Stealth Mums, The Roblox Controversy & A Tiny Internet Feud 0:00:11.445 --> 0:00:16.364 You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges the 0:00:16.445 --> 0:00:19.724 traditional owners of the land and waters that this podcast 0:00:19.805 --> 0:00:20.605 is recorded on. 0:00:27.285 --> 0:00:31.285 Welcome to Parenting out Loud, the podcast for parents who 0:00:31.325 --> 0:00:35.365 don't always listen to parenting podcasts. Here we are again, 0:00:35.565 --> 0:00:39.085 another week of parenting culture, some hot takes, and this 0:00:39.165 --> 0:00:41.445 time we're in our own podcast feed, which is nice. 0:00:41.485 --> 0:00:43.925 So we let go of the mother ship of Mamma 0:00:43.965 --> 0:00:45.565 Mia out Loud. We're off the teat. 0:00:45.805 --> 0:00:47.285 We now must learn to walk. 0:00:47.765 --> 0:00:47.965 Here. 0:00:48.005 --> 0:00:51.845 We got a lot of avocado. Yeah, and it. 0:00:51.885 --> 0:00:53.284 Helps you to learn to walk. 0:00:55.325 --> 0:00:55.565 Food. 0:00:55.725 --> 0:00:59.085 Yeah. I'm Monic Bowley, I'm Amelia Lasto, and I am 0:00:59.125 --> 0:01:02.605 Stacy Kicks Stacy. Before we begin, I'm just sensing a 0:01:02.725 --> 0:01:05.365 vibe from you this week that you're very stressed out. 0:01:05.725 --> 0:01:09.164 Is that correct? Yes, I'm very stressed this week. I've 0:01:09.205 --> 0:01:11.285 had a bit of a week. I have cried multiple 0:01:11.285 --> 0:01:13.365 times this week, just to make the listeners feel seen 0:01:13.405 --> 0:01:16.964 if you've done the same, which culminated in me crying 0:01:17.045 --> 0:01:19.164 because I couldn't do a Copenhagen plank. 0:01:19.244 --> 0:01:23.244 Sorry, Jim, what is a Copenhagen plank? I thought Copenhagen 0:01:23.285 --> 0:01:24.764 was just about like being stylish. 0:01:25.244 --> 0:01:26.125 Yes, so nice. 0:01:26.244 --> 0:01:27.045 It was ice cream. 0:01:27.444 --> 0:01:30.604 Yeah, it was like a torture device. I don't know why. 0:01:30.684 --> 0:01:32.804 I had to have one leg suspended in the air 0:01:32.964 --> 0:01:36.244 in a sideways plank and I couldn't do it, and 0:01:36.324 --> 0:01:38.685 the trainer came to help me. I got very upset 0:01:38.725 --> 0:01:41.244 and I said, it's not about the Copenhagen plank. 0:01:41.285 --> 0:01:43.844 It's never about the Copenhagen should be over the edge. 0:01:43.884 --> 0:01:45.725 But I'm very happy to be with you guys, very 0:01:45.765 --> 0:01:47.805 happy to be doing this. It's the highlight of my week. 0:01:48.165 --> 0:01:50.605 Oh, Stacy, let's just ignore you crying in the corner. 0:01:50.925 --> 0:01:53.525 Grab a tissue. This is what's coming up on today's show. 0:01:53.845 --> 0:01:56.805 The girl Boss is dead and them influencer is out, 0:01:56.925 --> 0:01:59.565 and there's a new status symbol in pretending you just 0:01:59.565 --> 0:02:00.445 don't have kids at all. 0:02:00.684 --> 0:02:03.205 I want to talk about how the raw book around 0:02:03.285 --> 0:02:07.965 praise has changed, and whether compliments and how we compliment 0:02:08.005 --> 0:02:12.525 people is just yet another topic around which millennials are overthinking. 0:02:13.325 --> 0:02:17.805 I saw a tiny feud on Facebook and it's changed 0:02:17.845 --> 0:02:20.245 the way I think about reading with my kids, and 0:02:20.285 --> 0:02:21.605 I want to bring it to your attention. 0:02:21.925 --> 0:02:24.285 Oh, I love a tiny few. There's a Reddit board 0:02:24.365 --> 0:02:28.765 called niche scandals, and it's just all about like people 0:02:28.805 --> 0:02:32.085 on crafting boards, like arguing with each other, and it's 0:02:32.125 --> 0:02:33.605 the best to have a low stakes feud. 0:02:33.645 --> 0:02:35.005 That sounds duey. 0:02:35.045 --> 0:02:38.245 This starts like a niche scandal, But then what I 0:02:38.405 --> 0:02:40.805 discovered is it's actually a bigger thing. 0:02:40.925 --> 0:02:42.165 It's a bigger thing. I can't wait. 0:02:42.485 --> 0:02:45.685 But first, in case you missed it, I have to 0:02:45.725 --> 0:02:47.645 talk to you about Roadblocks and why it's in the 0:02:47.645 --> 0:02:48.325 news this week. 0:02:48.405 --> 0:02:50.805 What is a roadblock? And why am I buying my 0:02:50.805 --> 0:02:54.445 friend's kids Roebucks gift cards every Christmas? And why am 0:02:54.445 --> 0:02:55.484 I talking about it this week? 0:02:55.565 --> 0:02:59.845 Yeah? So Roadblocks is an online gaming platform and the 0:02:59.885 --> 0:03:01.445 reason it's in the news this week it's been around 0:03:01.485 --> 0:03:04.205 since two thousand and six, is because as we're all 0:03:04.245 --> 0:03:08.285 preparing for the government's Social Media band to come into effect, 0:03:08.805 --> 0:03:12.085 a loophole has been discovered. And the loophole is Roadbox. 0:03:12.525 --> 0:03:15.685 Because while Roadblocks is ostensibly a place where you go 0:03:15.725 --> 0:03:19.965 to play games online, it's actually a social media site 0:03:20.005 --> 0:03:23.805 in disguise, and so it's not subject to this new 0:03:23.925 --> 0:03:26.885 Under SIXTEENES ban, but a lot of people are saying 0:03:27.045 --> 0:03:30.405 it should be. So Roadblocks has tried to preemp this 0:03:30.525 --> 0:03:33.405 by saying, hey, here's this new suite of safety features 0:03:33.445 --> 0:03:36.805 we have. But a lot of parents and experts say 0:03:36.845 --> 0:03:39.405 this is not going far enough. That Roadblocks is actually 0:03:39.485 --> 0:03:42.525 really dangerous for kids, and we have to think more 0:03:42.565 --> 0:03:44.485 systematically about how to make it safer. 0:03:44.725 --> 0:03:49.205 Roadblocks is cooked. Let's just put this on the table. 0:03:49.245 --> 0:03:51.565 It is. But I say this was like the sims like, 0:03:51.685 --> 0:03:53.765 is this not just like building little villag Yes. 0:03:54.125 --> 0:03:55.885 I think it started out like that, Stacy. 0:03:55.925 --> 0:03:57.845 I think ten years ago when it came out, people 0:03:57.885 --> 0:04:01.125 touted it as this great place for entrepreneurship and it 0:04:01.165 --> 0:04:03.845 teaches kids how to code, because essentially what it is 0:04:03.845 --> 0:04:06.165 is it's a platform where you can go on and 0:04:06.205 --> 0:04:08.965 build a game and then people come and play your games. 0:04:09.605 --> 0:04:12.165 But what'spened is that now. 0:04:11.885 --> 0:04:14.205 Because of the popularity of it, and it's something like 0:04:15.205 --> 0:04:19.325 sixty eight million uses a day, forty million of them 0:04:19.404 --> 0:04:22.285 are under the age of thirteen, it's just become this 0:04:22.404 --> 0:04:25.725 kind of free fall and now it's a place that's 0:04:25.765 --> 0:04:31.685 full of grooming, inappropriate content, bullying, racism, anti semitism. It's 0:04:31.765 --> 0:04:35.925 banned in Qatar and Turkey. It's being sued by Louisiana. 0:04:36.085 --> 0:04:40.685 But most importantly, this game uses addiction based mechanics for kids. 0:04:40.485 --> 0:04:44.085 It addicts kids, it hooks them. It is a very 0:04:44.125 --> 0:04:44.805 bad place. 0:04:44.925 --> 0:04:47.885 So I've been hearing about it a lot from my 0:04:48.485 --> 0:04:51.205 seven year old and I sort of thought, oh, it 0:04:51.285 --> 0:04:54.205 seems gentle. Like one of the most popular games on 0:04:54.245 --> 0:04:57.205 there is a game where you essentially grow a garden, 0:04:57.445 --> 0:04:59.165 and I thought, well, that sounds nice. It sort of 0:04:59.165 --> 0:05:02.365 sounds like Beatrix Potter, how lovely, and it's free. Great, 0:05:03.085 --> 0:05:06.005 So I go online to play it with him, and 0:05:06.245 --> 0:05:09.685 very shortly he's in a game where he's playing an 0:05:09.765 --> 0:05:13.045 ice a as in The Masked People, who scoop people 0:05:13.125 --> 0:05:15.685 up off the streets in the US and take them 0:05:15.685 --> 0:05:19.885 to immigration prison. And I suddenly realized that because it's 0:05:19.925 --> 0:05:23.645 open source, you start with the garden game, you end 0:05:23.765 --> 0:05:27.685 up playing an ice agent with a machine gun. Mon's 0:05:27.925 --> 0:05:31.005 you have done some research around there? Since I'm curious 0:05:31.005 --> 0:05:33.445 to know the answer. Has it always been like this, 0:05:33.605 --> 0:05:36.445 like why do we think it's the acceptable face of gaming? 0:05:36.485 --> 0:05:37.365 Like what happened? 0:05:37.925 --> 0:05:41.925 I think it's victim of inshitification. Now, this is a term. 0:05:42.005 --> 0:05:43.845 I don't know if you've heard of it. It's basically 0:05:43.885 --> 0:05:46.605 for when things turn to shit. So it's the process 0:05:46.645 --> 0:05:50.005 where online platforms start out really good and then they 0:05:50.085 --> 0:05:54.965 deteriorate over time because they become sort of just about 0:05:55.285 --> 0:05:59.085 shareholders at everyone's expense. So an example like being yes 0:05:59.365 --> 0:06:02.445 or you know, when Instagram first started, it was just 0:06:02.525 --> 0:06:05.685 your friends in the news feed, and now it's people 0:06:05.765 --> 0:06:08.165 you don't know and a lot of ads. It's sort 0:06:08.205 --> 0:06:10.645 of the same thing with Twitter. It's really gone down 0:06:10.685 --> 0:06:12.965 the toilet. So I feel like. 0:06:13.045 --> 0:06:17.125 Perhaps Roadblocks is victim of intititification. 0:06:16.805 --> 0:06:20.325 And that's why Australia's e Safety Commissioner has flagged Roadblocks 0:06:20.365 --> 0:06:22.645 and has said that in addition to the Under sixteen 0:06:22.645 --> 0:06:24.685 social media Band, we've got to talk about how to 0:06:24.725 --> 0:06:28.165 protect kids on roadblocks and look to be fair to Roadblocks. 0:06:28.285 --> 0:06:30.445 I should mention what they came out with this week. 0:06:30.445 --> 0:06:33.245 They said that under sixteen's accounts will now be private 0:06:33.285 --> 0:06:36.885 by default and they will be unable to chat with adults. 0:06:36.885 --> 0:06:38.645 And the reason why they had to put that in 0:06:39.165 --> 0:06:43.045 is because there was grooming happening on roadblocks. There have 0:06:43.125 --> 0:06:46.844 been many people arrested. Two dozen is the number. Actually, 0:06:46.925 --> 0:06:49.844 two dozen adults have been arrested on suspicion of abusing 0:06:49.925 --> 0:06:52.525 or abducting victims that they groomed on roadblocks, So this 0:06:52.645 --> 0:06:54.525 is very much a live issue. They reckon. 0:06:54.525 --> 0:06:56.445 The big problem with roadblocks is the chat feature. 0:06:56.805 --> 0:06:56.965 Right. 0:06:57.045 --> 0:06:58.844 This is what a lot of people say, is that's 0:06:58.885 --> 0:07:01.045 how predators come in. They chat with your kids, they 0:07:01.085 --> 0:07:03.765 can groom your kids. But I don't quite believe it. 0:07:04.085 --> 0:07:06.605 I think eliminating the chat function does not solve any 0:07:06.645 --> 0:07:08.685 of the problems, because there's other ways that your kids 0:07:08.685 --> 0:07:11.605 can see things. People can write things on buildings, people 0:07:11.605 --> 0:07:14.005 can have a speech bubble coming out of them. I 0:07:14.045 --> 0:07:17.205 know there's probably people listening whose kids play this. There 0:07:17.245 --> 0:07:20.045 are other games that kids can play where they are 0:07:20.085 --> 0:07:23.605 building things, learning things. I can't see any advantage for 0:07:23.685 --> 0:07:24.325 kids being on. 0:07:24.365 --> 0:07:26.285 Right, But I don't think it's as easy as that. 0:07:26.405 --> 0:07:29.445 Mon's like speaking as someone who's having to negotiate this 0:07:29.605 --> 0:07:33.565 right now. If I disconnect from roadblocks and I ban 0:07:33.685 --> 0:07:38.005 it completely, the children will always find something else to play, 0:07:38.165 --> 0:07:40.525 and keeping the line of communication open, I think is 0:07:40.525 --> 0:07:43.205 the only solution rather than saying we're just not going 0:07:43.245 --> 0:07:44.165 to play it all. 0:07:44.205 --> 0:07:47.365 The experts say there is no safe way for kids 0:07:47.405 --> 0:07:50.285 to use this, and if they are not old enough 0:07:50.325 --> 0:07:52.805 to see porn. They are not old enough to play 0:07:52.805 --> 0:07:55.845 this game. I know you're rolling your eyes, but I 0:07:55.925 --> 0:08:00.205 follow this quite daggy Instagram account called the family it Guy. 0:08:00.325 --> 0:08:04.045 This guy's a cybersecurity expert and a dad, and he 0:08:04.125 --> 0:08:06.725 registered on Roadblocks as an eight year old and he 0:08:06.885 --> 0:08:10.045 joined a game. Within minutes, he joined a game called 0:08:10.125 --> 0:08:13.925 puss Blick Bathroom Simulator, which was a simulator where you 0:08:13.965 --> 0:08:17.365 can only imagine what was going on in there, stuff 0:08:17.405 --> 0:08:20.525 that eight year olds should not be seeing. So I 0:08:20.565 --> 0:08:23.805 don't think Roadblocks is going far enough with parental controls. 0:08:23.965 --> 0:08:27.085 I think that also this e Safety Commissioner is not 0:08:27.125 --> 0:08:29.685 going far enough with this fine. So the Australian government 0:08:29.725 --> 0:08:33.045 is saying we're going to find Roadblocks forty five million 0:08:33.085 --> 0:08:35.725 dollars for non compliance. But guys, this is a ninety 0:08:35.765 --> 0:08:39.605 five billion dollar company. Forty five million to them, that's 0:08:39.725 --> 0:08:42.045 like you walking down the street with one hundred thousand 0:08:42.045 --> 0:08:45.685 dollars in your pocket and shelling out fifty bucks. It's nothing. 0:08:46.085 --> 0:08:48.525 I've seen stories. There was a case in Kansas where 0:08:48.525 --> 0:08:52.045 an eight year old girl was sending inappropriate images to 0:08:52.365 --> 0:08:55.444 a stranger that was sending her roebucks send her thousands 0:08:55.445 --> 0:08:56.045 of Roebucks. 0:08:56.245 --> 0:08:58.765 Yes, because the other element that we haven't even really 0:08:58.805 --> 0:09:01.125 talked about here is the fact that while these games 0:09:01.125 --> 0:09:04.804 start out as free very quickly, as I discovered when 0:09:04.845 --> 0:09:07.645 I played, you were prompted to buy things in order 0:09:07.685 --> 0:09:10.645 to level up to a more advanced stage of various games, 0:09:10.645 --> 0:09:12.405 and those numbers add up really quickly. 0:09:12.525 --> 0:09:15.205 Yeah, but you're doing the right thing by playing the games, Like, 0:09:15.205 --> 0:09:18.485 I don't want everyone, especially people whose children are already 0:09:18.525 --> 0:09:21.005 on this game, to feel like right, the solution is 0:09:21.045 --> 0:09:23.204 that we need to just snatch the iPad off them 0:09:23.205 --> 0:09:25.005 and they're not allowed on it anymore. Like we run 0:09:25.045 --> 0:09:27.965 a story on the site this week written by Madeline West, 0:09:28.045 --> 0:09:32.005 you know Neighbors actress Madeline West, like she's an icon, 0:09:32.045 --> 0:09:34.765 but she works as an online safety advocate now for 0:09:34.885 --> 0:09:37.285 Old Shift, and she was saying that the best thing 0:09:37.405 --> 0:09:39.325 to do is never make your child afraid that if 0:09:39.365 --> 0:09:41.805 they tell you something that you'll take their devices away. 0:09:42.045 --> 0:09:43.965 That you need to, as much as it can feel 0:09:43.965 --> 0:09:46.805 like pulling teeth, be involved and be playing whatever games 0:09:46.845 --> 0:09:49.324 they're playing so that they do feel like when things 0:09:49.405 --> 0:09:51.005 like this happen they can raise it with you. 0:09:51.165 --> 0:09:54.125 Well. And the other broader problem is that as a parent, 0:09:54.165 --> 0:09:57.885 you're always trying to stay ahead of what the kids 0:09:57.885 --> 0:10:01.045 are interested in. It is a little bit like whack 0:10:01.045 --> 0:10:03.725 a mole, because once you've established that one thing is 0:10:03.805 --> 0:10:06.685 problematic in some way, they will move on to something else. 0:10:06.725 --> 0:10:08.565 So that, as you say, the solution is not to 0:10:08.645 --> 0:10:11.165 throw the baby out with the bathwater, but instead try 0:10:11.205 --> 0:10:14.125 and find a way forward with the platforms that they 0:10:14.245 --> 0:10:16.525 enjoy and stay connected to what they're doing. 0:10:16.605 --> 0:10:18.445 I guess so, I guess we're going to be planting 0:10:18.525 --> 0:10:19.125 veggies on. 0:10:19.085 --> 0:10:22.525 This game on the weekend, not being ice agents. 0:10:23.085 --> 0:10:26.325 While women once loudly and proudly celebrated the era of 0:10:26.365 --> 0:10:30.005 girl bosses and leaning in, we're now seeing women pretending 0:10:30.085 --> 0:10:32.925 that they aren't even parents at all, so they're working 0:10:33.085 --> 0:10:35.765 and looking like they're child free. There's a few examples 0:10:35.765 --> 0:10:38.045 of this in the culture this week. Case in point 0:10:38.645 --> 0:10:41.525 Margo Robbie. It would have been hard to ignore the 0:10:41.565 --> 0:10:44.565 images of Margo Robbie around this week on her press tour. 0:10:44.645 --> 0:10:47.564 Have you seen them? Yes, the naked dress. You've surely 0:10:47.605 --> 0:10:50.805 seen her believable, Yeah, loved it, I fell hook line 0:10:50.845 --> 0:10:52.965 and singer. I've seen her from every angle that you 0:10:52.965 --> 0:10:56.245 could see her I thought she looked amazing. So she's 0:10:56.365 --> 0:10:58.365 on the press tour for her movie, which is called 0:10:58.405 --> 0:11:01.085 A Big, Bold, Beautiful Journey, which feels like too many 0:11:01.085 --> 0:11:03.085 words for a movie title, but we're going to skim 0:11:03.165 --> 0:11:06.565 right over that. So what she's doing essentially, which a 0:11:06.565 --> 0:11:09.444 lot of the celebrities do nowadays, is that they're getting 0:11:09.485 --> 0:11:12.245 you to note their film, like we saw Zendea do 0:11:12.325 --> 0:11:15.285 it with Challengers. We saw Margo do it when she 0:11:15.365 --> 0:11:18.085 was on the Barbie press tour as well, like people 0:11:18.085 --> 0:11:21.725 are paying attention because of their outfits. There's six words 0:11:21.765 --> 0:11:24.804 I've heard on repeat when people are seeing these images 0:11:24.845 --> 0:11:27.405 this week that I wanted to interrogate a little bit, 0:11:27.645 --> 0:11:30.605 and those words are didn't she just have a baby? 0:11:31.005 --> 0:11:33.805 So I feel like that's a reaction that everyone I. 0:11:33.725 --> 0:11:34.325 Have said that. 0:11:35.245 --> 0:11:38.685 I said that myself. Actually, do you know the headlines 0:11:38.725 --> 0:11:40.965 around this rankled me a little bit. I know you're 0:11:40.965 --> 0:11:42.525 going to get into some other stuff, but I just 0:11:42.565 --> 0:11:45.365 want to put this on the table first. Every headline 0:11:45.405 --> 0:11:46.204 that I read was. 0:11:46.165 --> 0:11:48.645 Like, she's back, She's back. 0:11:48.445 --> 0:11:51.725 And I just felt like the undertone was, oh, thank God, 0:11:51.765 --> 0:11:54.485 like she's bounced back, she's hot, and she's working again, 0:11:54.525 --> 0:11:58.725 and it was just this subtext of a woman pretending 0:11:58.765 --> 0:12:00.485 she never really had a baby in the first place 0:12:00.845 --> 0:12:04.405 is what we want to see like glamorous hot. But 0:12:04.525 --> 0:12:06.405 this is a discussion that they had in MoMA Mea 0:12:06.445 --> 0:12:08.204 out Loud, So if you want to go into sort 0:12:08.205 --> 0:12:10.605 of that, I would highly recommend you listen to Me 0:12:10.685 --> 0:12:12.925 out Loud episode On that Mea Friedman goes. 0:12:12.925 --> 0:12:15.365 Off, Yeah, we need to remember, like this is her 0:12:15.405 --> 0:12:18.684 literal job, like her body and her appearance, let's be honest, 0:12:18.805 --> 0:12:21.045 is her job. So of course that is what she's 0:12:21.125 --> 0:12:23.045 going to be doing to be getting back to her role. 0:12:23.085 --> 0:12:26.805 That's not the case for us, thank god. But people 0:12:26.805 --> 0:12:29.485 are either saying, didn't she have a baby or they 0:12:29.525 --> 0:12:31.925 totally forgot she had a baby at all. And I 0:12:31.925 --> 0:12:33.804 think there's a little bit of a pattern that we're 0:12:33.845 --> 0:12:37.125 seeing now with this, where women were once celebrating that 0:12:37.205 --> 0:12:40.444 era of girl bosses and leaning in, and we're now 0:12:40.485 --> 0:12:43.445 seeing women pretending that they're not even parents at all, 0:12:43.525 --> 0:12:46.845 Like that seems like the new cool girl thing to do, 0:12:47.045 --> 0:12:48.605 Like don't you think this feels like the new top 0:12:48.645 --> 0:12:49.405 tier of Mummy. 0:12:49.525 --> 0:12:52.485 What I found fascinating about it is that our team 0:12:52.565 --> 0:12:58.525 here established that Margo has talked about her baby exactly once. 0:12:58.765 --> 0:13:01.125 Everyone who was sitting with me were, I mean the 0:13:01.365 --> 0:13:07.445 music number, the musical number happens, And honestly, I'm so sorry, 0:13:08.085 --> 0:13:10.685 great sound track, isn't that you can do? 0:13:11.765 --> 0:13:13.564 I'm sorry I had to start the interview for a set, yeah, 0:13:13.565 --> 0:13:15.405 because like, aren't you isn't there a part of you? 0:13:15.445 --> 0:13:21.965 There's like yes, I like time, that's it. 0:13:22.805 --> 0:13:25.405 And what I think is fascinating about this is it's 0:13:25.525 --> 0:13:28.325 kind of the era of being a stealth mum. And 0:13:28.365 --> 0:13:32.165 it's so different from ten years ago when celebrities would 0:13:32.165 --> 0:13:36.605 talk endlessly, ad infinitum about how having children had changed 0:13:36.685 --> 0:13:40.085 everything for them. I'm now picking roles that are more 0:13:40.365 --> 0:13:43.365 compassionate and more deep, and now they're. 0:13:43.125 --> 0:13:45.445 Just not talking about it at all. I feel like 0:13:45.485 --> 0:13:49.005 you see that with your friends, like your normy friends 0:13:49.005 --> 0:13:51.565 that have three hundred followers on Instagram, Like I know 0:13:51.685 --> 0:13:54.084 a lot of people now they don't announce their pregnancy, 0:13:54.365 --> 0:13:57.365 they don't announce the birth, Nope. They just start having 0:13:57.445 --> 0:13:59.685 like little toes in the corner of their photo or 0:13:59.885 --> 0:14:02.525 the back of a baby's head. Like it's very much 0:14:02.565 --> 0:14:04.485 a thing now, like a cool girl thing. And I 0:14:04.485 --> 0:14:06.285 guess Margot is the old pap or girl. 0:14:06.365 --> 0:14:10.245 It started with Kylie Jenna having a completely secret pregnancy. 0:14:10.565 --> 0:14:13.805 Maybe that was it. Yeah, the stealth mom started with 0:14:13.885 --> 0:14:16.285 Kylie like every other bloody trend on this planet. 0:14:16.445 --> 0:14:18.885 Yeah, I so agree. This cultural shift is so interesting. 0:14:18.965 --> 0:14:21.565 So first we had girl Boss, Rise and Grind. Then 0:14:21.605 --> 0:14:25.605 it was sharanting like it was very much oversharing everything 0:14:25.605 --> 0:14:29.645 about parenting everywhere like hashtag real. But now I agree 0:14:29.645 --> 0:14:32.285 it is stealth mum where your kids are not your brand. 0:14:32.405 --> 0:14:36.085 So Kylie Jenner, what about Hailey Bieber? She never talks 0:14:36.085 --> 0:14:38.645 about her baby. Margot Robbie doesn't talk about her baby. 0:14:38.925 --> 0:14:42.045 It's like a flex of Yeah, I have kids, but 0:14:42.085 --> 0:14:43.525 I don't need to make them my brand. 0:14:43.845 --> 0:14:45.645 And I get it. Look, I used to have a 0:14:45.685 --> 0:14:47.645 thing and I've spoken about it on this podcast where 0:14:48.005 --> 0:14:49.685 I still kind of have it at my day job 0:14:49.765 --> 0:14:53.165 where I just do not want to talk about having 0:14:53.325 --> 0:14:56.325 kids at work. And if no one ever has to 0:14:56.365 --> 0:14:59.205 hear about me going to a school concert, that my 0:14:59.285 --> 0:14:59.965 sweet spot. 0:15:00.085 --> 0:15:01.725 I kind of tried to do the same thing when 0:15:01.765 --> 0:15:03.605 I started at Mum and Mea. I was like, you know, 0:15:04.005 --> 0:15:06.085 it's a fresh start. I'm going to be really cool 0:15:06.125 --> 0:15:08.565 and mysterious, and you know they'll be shocked, like a 0:15:08.645 --> 0:15:10.805 year down the track when they find out a a kid, 0:15:10.805 --> 0:15:13.725 because obviously I'm too young to have a child. And 0:15:13.765 --> 0:15:16.125 then like I think, at about one pm on my 0:15:16.165 --> 0:15:18.485 first day, I might have mentioned I got an update 0:15:18.485 --> 0:15:20.725 photo of my daughter, so it all went out the window. 0:15:20.805 --> 0:15:22.965 But why do we think that way, and why is 0:15:23.005 --> 0:15:26.165 it sort of now cool to not talk about your 0:15:26.245 --> 0:15:29.205 children or to sort of act like you don't have children. 0:15:29.285 --> 0:15:31.685 It's almost like you've got to pick a brand for 0:15:31.765 --> 0:15:34.485 your job, and if your child doesn't align with your brand, 0:15:34.565 --> 0:15:36.365 then you know they have to be kept separate. 0:15:36.485 --> 0:15:39.885 I wonder if it's a generational thing. So millennials centered 0:15:39.965 --> 0:15:43.045 their children at the center of the world. We are 0:15:43.125 --> 0:15:46.605 intense parents, We are overparenting. I wonder if the next 0:15:46.605 --> 0:15:50.045 generation alphas or z's are going the other way, where 0:15:50.085 --> 0:15:52.885 they're centering themselves and they keep true to themselves and 0:15:52.925 --> 0:15:55.205 what they're doing, and they don't make their kids their 0:15:55.325 --> 0:15:58.645 entire personality. It's just probably a reflexive action. You know, 0:15:58.685 --> 0:16:00.885 how we parent in the way in the opposite way 0:16:00.885 --> 0:16:04.125 to our parents parented. Maybe the next generation is saying, 0:16:04.325 --> 0:16:06.285 I don't want everything to be about my kids, still 0:16:06.285 --> 0:16:07.525 about me. I'm still number one. 0:16:07.805 --> 0:16:10.285 I've got a theory that I think it's a bit political. 0:16:11.125 --> 0:16:13.365 I think the reason why we've seen the rise of 0:16:13.365 --> 0:16:17.085 the stealth mum is because it reflects this newfound ambivalence 0:16:17.085 --> 0:16:19.725 we have about the very idea of the working mother. 0:16:20.205 --> 0:16:23.525 We all know that the tradwife wave happened, but those 0:16:23.605 --> 0:16:26.725 trad wifs were already doing a job. They were performing 0:16:26.725 --> 0:16:28.765 the job of being a trad wife. But now I 0:16:28.845 --> 0:16:33.485 think there's this deep seated kind of nervousness about how 0:16:33.525 --> 0:16:36.725 you have a kid in capitalism at all, and people 0:16:36.765 --> 0:16:39.605 are just saying, of all political stripes, I don't want 0:16:39.645 --> 0:16:42.485 to have to do that. The workplace was structured for men, 0:16:43.085 --> 0:16:46.925 and it's impossible in some ways to fulfill both the 0:16:47.005 --> 0:16:49.245 role of being a parent and the role of being 0:16:49.245 --> 0:16:51.765 a good employee. And they're checking out of it, and 0:16:51.805 --> 0:16:54.205 they're saying, I don't want to do that anymore. And 0:16:54.245 --> 0:16:57.405 I think that's why it's almost become like daggy to 0:16:57.565 --> 0:17:00.405 try and balance the two, because it's sort of seen 0:17:00.405 --> 0:17:02.045 as like, well, you're clearly not doing a good job 0:17:02.085 --> 0:17:02.965 on either of them. 0:17:03.045 --> 0:17:06.004 And it's interesting when you use the term stealth mumming, 0:17:06.004 --> 0:17:07.764 because I've seen that. This week there was a piece 0:17:07.805 --> 0:17:10.205 in the Cut where they talked about Vogue's new editor. 0:17:10.484 --> 0:17:13.484 Vogues knew she's called head of editorial Content so that 0:17:13.484 --> 0:17:16.885 there's never another editor after Anna Wintall, which I love. 0:17:17.285 --> 0:17:20.325 But Vogue's new head of editorial content Chloe mahl So. 0:17:20.525 --> 0:17:23.405 The author Catherine jess and Morton admitted that her first 0:17:23.445 --> 0:17:26.365 thought when she saw that Marl had been promoted to 0:17:26.405 --> 0:17:29.085 this spot was how is she going to do that 0:17:29.325 --> 0:17:31.085 with a four and a two year old? And she 0:17:31.245 --> 0:17:33.965 was saying this, she said she felt like hard working, 0:17:34.005 --> 0:17:37.205 ambitious mothers have gone into stealth mode in the last decade. 0:17:37.565 --> 0:17:40.165 Min's we talked about how we've tried to stealth mom 0:17:40.245 --> 0:17:42.445 unsuccessfully at work. Have you stealth mum? No? 0:17:42.725 --> 0:17:46.445 I haven't stealth mum. But my most recent boss was 0:17:46.445 --> 0:17:52.085 a stealth mum. Where she was this unbelievably impressive woman 0:17:52.765 --> 0:17:56.365 and I had been working with her for a few 0:17:56.525 --> 0:18:01.685 weeks when she casually just dropped in something about having 0:18:01.725 --> 0:18:06.805 a six month old baby, and I write two two 0:18:07.205 --> 0:18:11.765 very small children. This is a woman, incredible, ambitious, a 0:18:11.925 --> 0:18:15.205 very very large job that was my first example of 0:18:15.245 --> 0:18:16.645 stealth mumming in real life. 0:18:16.845 --> 0:18:18.085 And how did it make you feel? 0:18:18.205 --> 0:18:21.484 Did you feel a little like misled or was it 0:18:21.725 --> 0:18:22.805 just I'm impressed? 0:18:23.525 --> 0:18:23.845 Oh? 0:18:24.165 --> 0:18:26.804 Is it wrong to say I was impressed? It was 0:18:26.885 --> 0:18:30.845 my first example of the subtext being I'm not here 0:18:30.885 --> 0:18:33.325 to talk about my kids. I'm not here to be 0:18:33.405 --> 0:18:36.445 defined by them. I'm not going to be defined as 0:18:36.484 --> 0:18:40.165 a harried, tired working mother. I'm here, I'm standing on 0:18:40.285 --> 0:18:43.965 business and my kids are not my brand. And I 0:18:44.005 --> 0:18:48.365 think that we have seen this cultural shift where probably 0:18:48.525 --> 0:18:50.925 ten years ago it was all about sharinging. Well there 0:18:51.045 --> 0:18:53.485 is still some of that, but a lot of millennial 0:18:53.525 --> 0:18:57.605 parents were over sharing and over there was a raft 0:18:57.645 --> 0:19:00.564 of like mummy blogs showing it this is what it's like, 0:19:00.725 --> 0:19:04.045 this is the real me, very messy kind of parenting. 0:19:04.085 --> 0:19:07.004 But now there is this shift into cool girl stealth 0:19:07.085 --> 0:19:10.045 mums who don't make kids part of their brand and 0:19:10.484 --> 0:19:12.125 who don't seemingly exist. 0:19:12.165 --> 0:19:15.405 But I worry about this though, because I'm like, why 0:19:15.405 --> 0:19:18.484 should I pretend I didn't basically go to war before 0:19:18.525 --> 0:19:21.165 I got to work, Like I've had to battle a 0:19:21.285 --> 0:19:24.285 child into a uniform, get them out the door, get 0:19:24.285 --> 0:19:27.445 myself ready within that deal with a tantrum, like it 0:19:27.484 --> 0:19:29.925 is part of our brand, Like should we be denying 0:19:29.965 --> 0:19:31.805 that part of our self exists? 0:19:32.285 --> 0:19:33.764