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Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges the

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Speaker 1: traditional owners of the land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded on.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Parenting out Loud, the podcast for parents who

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Speaker 2: don't always listen to parenting podcasts. Here we are again,

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Speaker 2: another week of parenting culture, some hot takes, and this

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Speaker 2: time we're in our own podcast feed, which is nice.

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Speaker 2: So we let go of the mother ship of Mamma

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Speaker 2: Mia out Loud. We're off the teat.

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Speaker 3: We now must learn to walk.

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Speaker 4: Here.

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Speaker 1: We got a lot of avocado. Yeah, and it.

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Speaker 3: Helps you to learn to walk.

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Speaker 1: Food.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I'm Monic Bowley, I'm Amelia Lasto, and I am

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Speaker 4: Stacy Kicks Stacy. Before we begin, I'm just sensing a

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Speaker 4: vibe from you this week that you're very stressed out.

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Speaker 1: Is that correct? Yes, I'm very stressed this week. I've

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Speaker 1: had a bit of a week. I have cried multiple

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Speaker 1: times this week, just to make the listeners feel seen

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Speaker 1: if you've done the same, which culminated in me crying

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Speaker 1: because I couldn't do a Copenhagen plank.

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Speaker 4: Sorry, Jim, what is a Copenhagen plank? I thought Copenhagen

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Speaker 4: was just about like being stylish.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so nice.

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Speaker 3: It was ice cream.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like a torture device. I don't know why.

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Speaker 1: I had to have one leg suspended in the air

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Speaker 1: in a sideways plank and I couldn't do it, and

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Speaker 1: the trainer came to help me. I got very upset

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Speaker 1: and I said, it's not about the Copenhagen plank.

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Speaker 4: It's never about the Copenhagen should be over the edge.

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Speaker 1: But I'm very happy to be with you guys, very

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Speaker 1: happy to be doing this. It's the highlight of my week.

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Speaker 2: Oh, Stacy, let's just ignore you crying in the corner.

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Speaker 2: Grab a tissue. This is what's coming up on today's show.

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Speaker 1: The girl Boss is dead and them influencer is out,

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Speaker 1: and there's a new status symbol in pretending you just

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Speaker 1: don't have kids at all.

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Speaker 4: I want to talk about how the raw book around

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Speaker 4: praise has changed, and whether compliments and how we compliment

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Speaker 4: people is just yet another topic around which millennials are overthinking.

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Speaker 2: I saw a tiny feud on Facebook and it's changed

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Speaker 2: the way I think about reading with my kids, and

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Speaker 2: I want to bring it to your attention.

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Speaker 4: Oh, I love a tiny few. There's a Reddit board

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Speaker 4: called niche scandals, and it's just all about like people

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Speaker 4: on crafting boards, like arguing with each other, and it's

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Speaker 4: the best to have a low stakes feud.

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Speaker 1: That sounds duey.

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Speaker 2: This starts like a niche scandal, But then what I

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Speaker 2: discovered is it's actually a bigger thing.

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Speaker 3: It's a bigger thing. I can't wait.

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Speaker 4: But first, in case you missed it, I have to

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Speaker 4: talk to you about Roadblocks and why it's in the

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Speaker 4: news this week.

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Speaker 1: What is a roadblock? And why am I buying my

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Speaker 1: friend's kids Roebucks gift cards every Christmas? And why am

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Speaker 1: I talking about it this week?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? So Roadblocks is an online gaming platform and the

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Speaker 4: reason it's in the news this week it's been around

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Speaker 4: since two thousand and six, is because as we're all

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Speaker 4: preparing for the government's Social Media band to come into effect,

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Speaker 4: a loophole has been discovered. And the loophole is Roadbox.

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Speaker 4: Because while Roadblocks is ostensibly a place where you go

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Speaker 4: to play games online, it's actually a social media site

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Speaker 4: in disguise, and so it's not subject to this new

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Speaker 4: Under SIXTEENES ban, but a lot of people are saying

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Speaker 4: it should be. So Roadblocks has tried to preemp this

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Speaker 4: by saying, hey, here's this new suite of safety features

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Speaker 4: we have. But a lot of parents and experts say

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Speaker 4: this is not going far enough. That Roadblocks is actually

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Speaker 4: really dangerous for kids, and we have to think more

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Speaker 4: systematically about how to make it safer.

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Speaker 3: Roadblocks is cooked. Let's just put this on the table.

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Speaker 1: It is. But I say this was like the sims like,

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Speaker 1: is this not just like building little villag Yes.

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Speaker 3: I think it started out like that, Stacy.

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Speaker 2: I think ten years ago when it came out, people

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Speaker 2: touted it as this great place for entrepreneurship and it

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Speaker 2: teaches kids how to code, because essentially what it is

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Speaker 2: is it's a platform where you can go on and

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Speaker 2: build a game and then people come and play your games.

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Speaker 3: But what'spened is that now.

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Speaker 2: Because of the popularity of it, and it's something like

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Speaker 2: sixty eight million uses a day, forty million of them

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Speaker 2: are under the age of thirteen, it's just become this

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Speaker 2: kind of free fall and now it's a place that's

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Speaker 2: full of grooming, inappropriate content, bullying, racism, anti semitism. It's

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Speaker 2: banned in Qatar and Turkey. It's being sued by Louisiana.

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Speaker 2: But most importantly, this game uses addiction based mechanics for kids.

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Speaker 2: It addicts kids, it hooks them. It is a very

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Speaker 2: bad place.

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Speaker 4: So I've been hearing about it a lot from my

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Speaker 4: seven year old and I sort of thought, oh, it

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Speaker 4: seems gentle. Like one of the most popular games on

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Speaker 4: there is a game where you essentially grow a garden,

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Speaker 4: and I thought, well, that sounds nice. It sort of

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Speaker 4: sounds like Beatrix Potter, how lovely, and it's free. Great,

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Speaker 4: So I go online to play it with him, and

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Speaker 4: very shortly he's in a game where he's playing an

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Speaker 4: ice a as in The Masked People, who scoop people

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Speaker 4: up off the streets in the US and take them

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Speaker 4: to immigration prison. And I suddenly realized that because it's

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Speaker 4: open source, you start with the garden game, you end

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Speaker 4: up playing an ice agent with a machine gun. Mon's

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Speaker 4: you have done some research around there? Since I'm curious

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Speaker 4: to know the answer. Has it always been like this,

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Speaker 4: like why do we think it's the acceptable face of gaming?

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Speaker 4: Like what happened?

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Speaker 2: I think it's victim of inshitification. Now, this is a term.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you've heard of it. It's basically

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Speaker 2: for when things turn to shit. So it's the process

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Speaker 2: where online platforms start out really good and then they

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Speaker 2: deteriorate over time because they become sort of just about

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Speaker 2: shareholders at everyone's expense. So an example like being yes

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Speaker 2: or you know, when Instagram first started, it was just

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Speaker 2: your friends in the news feed, and now it's people

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Speaker 2: you don't know and a lot of ads. It's sort

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Speaker 2: of the same thing with Twitter. It's really gone down

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Speaker 2: the toilet. So I feel like.

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Speaker 3: Perhaps Roadblocks is victim of intititification.

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Speaker 4: And that's why Australia's e Safety Commissioner has flagged Roadblocks

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Speaker 4: and has said that in addition to the Under sixteen

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Speaker 4: social media Band, we've got to talk about how to

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Speaker 4: protect kids on roadblocks and look to be fair to Roadblocks.

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Speaker 4: I should mention what they came out with this week.

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Speaker 4: They said that under sixteen's accounts will now be private

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Speaker 4: by default and they will be unable to chat with adults.

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Speaker 4: And the reason why they had to put that in

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Speaker 4: is because there was grooming happening on roadblocks. There have

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Speaker 4: been many people arrested. Two dozen is the number. Actually,

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Speaker 4: two dozen adults have been arrested on suspicion of abusing

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Speaker 4: or abducting victims that they groomed on roadblocks, So this

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Speaker 4: is very much a live issue. They reckon.

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Speaker 3: The big problem with roadblocks is the chat feature.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 2: This is what a lot of people say, is that's

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Speaker 2: how predators come in. They chat with your kids, they

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Speaker 2: can groom your kids. But I don't quite believe it.

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Speaker 2: I think eliminating the chat function does not solve any

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Speaker 2: of the problems, because there's other ways that your kids

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Speaker 2: can see things. People can write things on buildings, people

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Speaker 2: can have a speech bubble coming out of them. I

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Speaker 2: know there's probably people listening whose kids play this. There

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Speaker 2: are other games that kids can play where they are

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Speaker 2: building things, learning things. I can't see any advantage for

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Speaker 2: kids being on.

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Speaker 1: Right, But I don't think it's as easy as that.

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Speaker 4: Mon's like speaking as someone who's having to negotiate this

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Speaker 4: right now. If I disconnect from roadblocks and I ban

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Speaker 4: it completely, the children will always find something else to play,

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Speaker 4: and keeping the line of communication open, I think is

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Speaker 4: the only solution rather than saying we're just not going

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Speaker 4: to play it all.

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Speaker 2: The experts say there is no safe way for kids

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Speaker 2: to use this, and if they are not old enough

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Speaker 2: to see porn. They are not old enough to play

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Speaker 2: this game. I know you're rolling your eyes, but I

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Speaker 2: follow this quite daggy Instagram account called the family it Guy.

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Speaker 2: This guy's a cybersecurity expert and a dad, and he

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Speaker 2: registered on Roadblocks as an eight year old and he

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Speaker 2: joined a game. Within minutes, he joined a game called

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Speaker 2: puss Blick Bathroom Simulator, which was a simulator where you

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Speaker 2: can only imagine what was going on in there, stuff

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Speaker 2: that eight year olds should not be seeing. So I

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Speaker 2: don't think Roadblocks is going far enough with parental controls.

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Speaker 2: I think that also this e Safety Commissioner is not

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Speaker 2: going far enough with this fine. So the Australian government

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Speaker 2: is saying we're going to find Roadblocks forty five million

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Speaker 2: dollars for non compliance. But guys, this is a ninety

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Speaker 2: five billion dollar company. Forty five million to them, that's

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Speaker 2: like you walking down the street with one hundred thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars in your pocket and shelling out fifty bucks. It's nothing.

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Speaker 1: I've seen stories. There was a case in Kansas where

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Speaker 1: an eight year old girl was sending inappropriate images to

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Speaker 1: a stranger that was sending her roebucks send her thousands

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Speaker 1: of Roebucks.

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Speaker 4: Yes, because the other element that we haven't even really

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Speaker 4: talked about here is the fact that while these games

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Speaker 4: start out as free very quickly, as I discovered when

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Speaker 4: I played, you were prompted to buy things in order

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Speaker 4: to level up to a more advanced stage of various games,

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Speaker 4: and those numbers add up really quickly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but you're doing the right thing by playing the games, Like,

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Speaker 1: I don't want everyone, especially people whose children are already

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Speaker 1: on this game, to feel like right, the solution is

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Speaker 1: that we need to just snatch the iPad off them

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Speaker 1: and they're not allowed on it anymore. Like we run

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Speaker 1: a story on the site this week written by Madeline West,

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Speaker 1: you know Neighbors actress Madeline West, like she's an icon,

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Speaker 1: but she works as an online safety advocate now for

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Speaker 1: Old Shift, and she was saying that the best thing

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Speaker 1: to do is never make your child afraid that if

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Speaker 1: they tell you something that you'll take their devices away.

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Speaker 1: That you need to, as much as it can feel

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Speaker 1: like pulling teeth, be involved and be playing whatever games

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Speaker 1: they're playing so that they do feel like when things

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Speaker 1: like this happen they can raise it with you.

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Speaker 4: Well. And the other broader problem is that as a parent,

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Speaker 4: you're always trying to stay ahead of what the kids

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Speaker 4: are interested in. It is a little bit like whack

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Speaker 4: a mole, because once you've established that one thing is

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Speaker 4: problematic in some way, they will move on to something else.

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Speaker 4: So that, as you say, the solution is not to

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Speaker 4: throw the baby out with the bathwater, but instead try

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Speaker 4: and find a way forward with the platforms that they

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Speaker 4: enjoy and stay connected to what they're doing.

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Speaker 1: I guess so, I guess we're going to be planting

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Speaker 1: veggies on.

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Speaker 4: This game on the weekend, not being ice agents.

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Speaker 1: While women once loudly and proudly celebrated the era of

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Speaker 1: girl bosses and leaning in, we're now seeing women pretending

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Speaker 1: that they aren't even parents at all, so they're working

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Speaker 1: and looking like they're child free. There's a few examples

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Speaker 1: of this in the culture this week. Case in point

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Speaker 1: Margo Robbie. It would have been hard to ignore the

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Speaker 1: images of Margo Robbie around this week on her press tour.

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Speaker 1: Have you seen them? Yes, the naked dress. You've surely

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Speaker 1: seen her believable, Yeah, loved it, I fell hook line

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Speaker 1: and singer. I've seen her from every angle that you

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Speaker 1: could see her I thought she looked amazing. So she's

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Speaker 1: on the press tour for her movie, which is called

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Speaker 1: A Big, Bold, Beautiful Journey, which feels like too many

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Speaker 1: words for a movie title, but we're going to skim

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Speaker 1: right over that. So what she's doing essentially, which a

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Speaker 1: lot of the celebrities do nowadays, is that they're getting

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Speaker 1: you to note their film, like we saw Zendea do

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Speaker 1: it with Challengers. We saw Margo do it when she

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Speaker 1: was on the Barbie press tour as well, like people

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Speaker 1: are paying attention because of their outfits. There's six words

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Speaker 1: I've heard on repeat when people are seeing these images

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Speaker 1: this week that I wanted to interrogate a little bit,

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Speaker 1: and those words are didn't she just have a baby?

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Speaker 1: So I feel like that's a reaction that everyone I.

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Speaker 3: Have said that.

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Speaker 2: I said that myself. Actually, do you know the headlines

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Speaker 2: around this rankled me a little bit. I know you're

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Speaker 2: going to get into some other stuff, but I just

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Speaker 2: want to put this on the table first. Every headline

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Speaker 2: that I read was.

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Speaker 3: Like, she's back, She's back.

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Speaker 2: And I just felt like the undertone was, oh, thank God,

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Speaker 2: like she's bounced back, she's hot, and she's working again,

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Speaker 2: and it was just this subtext of a woman pretending

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Speaker 2: she never really had a baby in the first place

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Speaker 2: is what we want to see like glamorous hot. But

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Speaker 2: this is a discussion that they had in MoMA Mea

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Speaker 2: out Loud, So if you want to go into sort

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Speaker 2: of that, I would highly recommend you listen to Me

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Speaker 2: out Loud episode On that Mea Friedman goes.

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Speaker 1: Off, Yeah, we need to remember, like this is her

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Speaker 1: literal job, like her body and her appearance, let's be honest,

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Speaker 1: is her job. So of course that is what she's

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Speaker 1: going to be doing to be getting back to her role.

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Speaker 1: That's not the case for us, thank god. But people

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Speaker 1: are either saying, didn't she have a baby or they

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Speaker 1: totally forgot she had a baby at all. And I

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Speaker 1: think there's a little bit of a pattern that we're

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Speaker 1: seeing now with this, where women were once celebrating that

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Speaker 1: era of girl bosses and leaning in, and we're now

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Speaker 1: seeing women pretending that they're not even parents at all,

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Speaker 1: Like that seems like the new cool girl thing to do,

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Speaker 1: Like don't you think this feels like the new top

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Speaker 1: tier of Mummy.

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Speaker 4: What I found fascinating about it is that our team

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Speaker 4: here established that Margo has talked about her baby exactly once.

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Speaker 5: Everyone who was sitting with me were, I mean the

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Speaker 5: music number, the musical number happens, And honestly, I'm so sorry,

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Speaker 5: great sound track, isn't that you can do?

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry I had to start the interview for a set, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because like, aren't you isn't there a part of you?

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Speaker 1: There's like yes, I like time, that's it.

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Speaker 4: And what I think is fascinating about this is it's

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Speaker 4: kind of the era of being a stealth mum. And

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Speaker 4: it's so different from ten years ago when celebrities would

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Speaker 4: talk endlessly, ad infinitum about how having children had changed

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Speaker 4: everything for them. I'm now picking roles that are more

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Speaker 4: compassionate and more deep, and now they're.

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Speaker 1: Just not talking about it at all. I feel like

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Speaker 1: you see that with your friends, like your normy friends

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Speaker 1: that have three hundred followers on Instagram, Like I know

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Speaker 1: a lot of people now they don't announce their pregnancy,

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Speaker 1: they don't announce the birth, Nope. They just start having

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Speaker 1: like little toes in the corner of their photo or

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Speaker 1: the back of a baby's head. Like it's very much

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Speaker 1: a thing now, like a cool girl thing. And I

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Speaker 1: guess Margot is the old pap or girl.

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Speaker 4: It started with Kylie Jenna having a completely secret pregnancy.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that was it. Yeah, the stealth mom started with

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Speaker 1: Kylie like every other bloody trend on this planet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I so agree. This cultural shift is so interesting.

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Speaker 2: So first we had girl Boss, Rise and Grind. Then

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Speaker 2: it was sharanting like it was very much oversharing everything

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Speaker 2: about parenting everywhere like hashtag real. But now I agree

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Speaker 2: it is stealth mum where your kids are not your brand.

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Speaker 2: So Kylie Jenner, what about Hailey Bieber? She never talks

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Speaker 2: about her baby. Margot Robbie doesn't talk about her baby.

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Speaker 2: It's like a flex of Yeah, I have kids, but

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Speaker 2: I don't need to make them my brand.

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Speaker 4: And I get it. Look, I used to have a

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Speaker 4: thing and I've spoken about it on this podcast where

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Speaker 4: I still kind of have it at my day job

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Speaker 4: where I just do not want to talk about having

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Speaker 4: kids at work. And if no one ever has to

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Speaker 4: hear about me going to a school concert, that my

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Speaker 4: sweet spot.

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Speaker 1: I kind of tried to do the same thing when

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Speaker 1: I started at Mum and Mea. I was like, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's a fresh start. I'm going to be really cool

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Speaker 1: and mysterious, and you know they'll be shocked, like a

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Speaker 1: year down the track when they find out a a kid,

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Speaker 1: because obviously I'm too young to have a child. And

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Speaker 1: then like I think, at about one pm on my

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Speaker 1: first day, I might have mentioned I got an update

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Speaker 1: photo of my daughter, so it all went out the window.

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Speaker 4: But why do we think that way, and why is

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Speaker 4: it sort of now cool to not talk about your

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Speaker 4: children or to sort of act like you don't have children.

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Speaker 1: It's almost like you've got to pick a brand for

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Speaker 1: your job, and if your child doesn't align with your brand,

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Speaker 1: then you know they have to be kept separate.

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Speaker 3: I wonder if it's a generational thing. So millennials centered

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Speaker 3: their children at the center of the world. We are

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Speaker 3: intense parents, We are overparenting. I wonder if the next

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Speaker 3: generation alphas or z's are going the other way, where

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Speaker 3: they're centering themselves and they keep true to themselves and

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Speaker 3: what they're doing, and they don't make their kids their

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Speaker 3: entire personality. It's just probably a reflexive action. You know,

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Speaker 3: how we parent in the way in the opposite way

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Speaker 3: to our parents parented. Maybe the next generation is saying,

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Speaker 3: I don't want everything to be about my kids, still

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Speaker 3: about me. I'm still number one.

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Speaker 4: I've got a theory that I think it's a bit political.

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Speaker 4: I think the reason why we've seen the rise of

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Speaker 4: the stealth mum is because it reflects this newfound ambivalence

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Speaker 4: we have about the very idea of the working mother.

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Speaker 4: We all know that the tradwife wave happened, but those

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Speaker 4: trad wifs were already doing a job. They were performing

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Speaker 4: the job of being a trad wife. But now I

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Speaker 4: think there's this deep seated kind of nervousness about how

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Speaker 4: you have a kid in capitalism at all, and people

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Speaker 4: are just saying, of all political stripes, I don't want

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Speaker 4: to have to do that. The workplace was structured for men,

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Speaker 4: and it's impossible in some ways to fulfill both the

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Speaker 4: role of being a parent and the role of being

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Speaker 4: a good employee. And they're checking out of it, and

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Speaker 4: they're saying, I don't want to do that anymore. And

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Speaker 4: I think that's why it's almost become like daggy to

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Speaker 4: try and balance the two, because it's sort of seen

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Speaker 4: as like, well, you're clearly not doing a good job

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Speaker 4: on either of them.

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Speaker 1: And it's interesting when you use the term stealth mumming,

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Speaker 1: because I've seen that. This week there was a piece

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Speaker 1: in the Cut where they talked about Vogue's new editor.

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Speaker 1: Vogues knew she's called head of editorial Content so that

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Speaker 1: there's never another editor after Anna Wintall, which I love.

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Speaker 1: But Vogue's new head of editorial content Chloe mahl So.

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Speaker 1: The author Catherine jess and Morton admitted that her first

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Speaker 1: thought when she saw that Marl had been promoted to

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Speaker 1: this spot was how is she going to do that

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Speaker 1: with a four and a two year old? And she

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Speaker 1: was saying this, she said she felt like hard working,

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Speaker 1: ambitious mothers have gone into stealth mode in the last decade.

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Speaker 4: Min's we talked about how we've tried to stealth mom

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Speaker 4: unsuccessfully at work. Have you stealth mum? No?

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Speaker 2: I haven't stealth mum. But my most recent boss was

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Speaker 2: a stealth mum. Where she was this unbelievably impressive woman

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Speaker 2: and I had been working with her for a few

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Speaker 2: weeks when she casually just dropped in something about having

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Speaker 2: a six month old baby, and I write two two

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Speaker 2: very small children. This is a woman, incredible, ambitious, a

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Speaker 2: very very large job that was my first example of

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Speaker 2: stealth mumming in real life.

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Speaker 1: And how did it make you feel?

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Speaker 4: Did you feel a little like misled or was it

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Speaker 4: just I'm impressed?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Is it wrong to say I was impressed? It was

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Speaker 2: my first example of the subtext being I'm not here

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Speaker 2: to talk about my kids. I'm not here to be

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Speaker 2: defined by them. I'm not going to be defined as

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Speaker 2: a harried, tired working mother. I'm here, I'm standing on

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Speaker 2: business and my kids are not my brand. And I

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Speaker 2: think that we have seen this cultural shift where probably

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Speaker 2: ten years ago it was all about sharinging. Well there

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Speaker 2: is still some of that, but a lot of millennial

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Speaker 2: parents were over sharing and over there was a raft

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Speaker 2: of like mummy blogs showing it this is what it's like,

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Speaker 2: this is the real me, very messy kind of parenting.

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Speaker 2: But now there is this shift into cool girl stealth

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Speaker 2: mums who don't make kids part of their brand and

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Speaker 2: who don't seemingly exist.

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Speaker 1: But I worry about this though, because I'm like, why

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Speaker 1: should I pretend I didn't basically go to war before

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Speaker 1: I got to work, Like I've had to battle a

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Speaker 1: child into a uniform, get them out the door, get

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Speaker 1: myself ready within that deal with a tantrum, like it

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Speaker 1: is part of our brand, Like should we be denying

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Speaker 1: that part of our self exists?

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Speaker 3: Do men make a part of their brand?

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Speaker 1: No, because they're not doing that.

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Speaker 4: And also I worry that it's just adding more pressure

404
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Speaker 4: onto us to keep this veneer of I'm not going

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Speaker 4: to say perfection, because I don't think anyone thinks I

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Speaker 4: have a veneer of perfection, but a veneer of just

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Speaker 4: kind of like impenetrability and like pretending like our kids

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Speaker 4: don't exist.

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Speaker 1: It just puts more pressure on us.

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Speaker 2: It felt kind of boundaried to me. It felt like

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Speaker 2: that's my other life and this is my work life.

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Speaker 1: Like almost a relief. I guess that's why I do it.

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Speaker 4: Actually, it is a relief to be able to go

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Speaker 4: to work and not think about my children while I'm there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: The ang the greatest I've ever seen a man is

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Speaker 4: I went to a dinner where I was seated next

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Speaker 4: to a pediatric pomonologist and I was just making small

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Speaker 4: talk with him, and I knew that he had two

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Speaker 4: small children at home, and I said to him, Wow,

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Speaker 4: that must be a lot, because you got this kids

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Speaker 4: at home. And then you're talking to kids at work,

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Speaker 4: and he flew into a rage and started telling me

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Speaker 4: that his job isn't about talking to children. And I

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Speaker 4: was thinking about it afterwards and why he was so

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Speaker 4: angry at me, and I think there were two reasons.

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Speaker 4: So first is because men are accustomed to being stealth dads,

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Speaker 4: like that's the default to be a stealth dad, and

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Speaker 4: so to be told like there's some continuation between what

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Speaker 4: you do at home and what you do at work,

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Speaker 4: it was almost offensive to him. It was almost undermining

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Speaker 4: his professionalism in a way that a woman would never

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Speaker 4: take offense at that. She may not want to talk

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Speaker 4: about it once to your point, but she's not going

435
00:20:59,645 --> 00:21:01,845
Speaker 4: to take offense. And then I think the second reason

436
00:21:01,845 --> 00:21:04,605
Speaker 4: why he took offense was sort of specific to the

437
00:21:04,645 --> 00:21:07,244
Speaker 4: context of the conversation, which was that he thought that

438
00:21:07,285 --> 00:21:10,564
Speaker 4: I was saying that his job was requiring caregiving, it

439
00:21:10,645 --> 00:21:12,764
Speaker 4: was about looking after children, and for him it was

440
00:21:12,805 --> 00:21:16,565
Speaker 4: about solving a problem, not looking after them, not caregiving,

441
00:21:16,645 --> 00:21:19,685
Speaker 4: which is coded as feminine. But it's just interesting to

442
00:21:19,725 --> 00:21:23,564
Speaker 4: reflect on as an example of how for dads, stealth

443
00:21:23,645 --> 00:21:25,484
Speaker 4: dadding is what they've always done.

444
00:21:25,565 --> 00:21:28,085
Speaker 3: It does feel like there's a motherhood penalty in the workplace,

445
00:21:28,365 --> 00:21:31,685
Speaker 3: there's a bias around if you say as a mother,

446
00:21:31,965 --> 00:21:35,645
Speaker 3: I'm a mother, it has connotations of you're not completely

447
00:21:35,645 --> 00:21:37,685
Speaker 3: focused on work, You're going to have to take time

448
00:21:37,685 --> 00:21:41,205
Speaker 3: off for sick kids. So I wonder if stealth mumming

449
00:21:41,805 --> 00:21:45,245
Speaker 3: is in response to that, trying to push back against

450
00:21:45,605 --> 00:21:46,365
Speaker 3: people's bias.

451
00:21:46,645 --> 00:21:51,165
Speaker 4: It's kind of a necessity in order to be taken seriously. Potentially. Yeah,

452
00:21:51,525 --> 00:21:53,565
Speaker 4: I don't know if you've come across this, but there's

453
00:21:53,565 --> 00:21:57,965
Speaker 4: some new thinking around the idea of praise and compliments,

454
00:21:58,725 --> 00:22:03,085
Speaker 4: and this new thinking is that praise itself might be toxic.

455
00:22:03,325 --> 00:22:07,284
Speaker 4: Let me explain. Some studies actually compare excessive praise to

456
00:22:07,365 --> 00:22:11,605
Speaker 4: a dangerous chemical or at aol to manipulate people into

457
00:22:11,605 --> 00:22:12,405
Speaker 4: doing what we want.

458
00:22:12,605 --> 00:22:14,845
Speaker 1: Oh God, they were doing compliments wrong.

459
00:22:15,245 --> 00:22:18,524
Speaker 4: And this came up for me because something happened to

460
00:22:18,605 --> 00:22:21,085
Speaker 4: my child at school recently which kind of upset me.

461
00:22:21,245 --> 00:22:23,804
Speaker 4: And it was around are You Oka Day, which is

462
00:22:23,845 --> 00:22:28,004
Speaker 4: always marked on the second day in September, And what

463
00:22:28,125 --> 00:22:30,885
Speaker 4: happened was that the students in my kids class were

464
00:22:30,885 --> 00:22:34,605
Speaker 4: creating compliment buckets and he and his classmates were encouraged

465
00:22:34,605 --> 00:22:38,325
Speaker 4: to fill these compliment buckets with compliments about other kids

466
00:22:38,365 --> 00:22:41,205
Speaker 4: in the class. Suffice to say, I'm sure you can

467
00:22:41,605 --> 00:22:43,885
Speaker 4: anticipate what ended up happening. There were a lot of

468
00:22:43,925 --> 00:22:46,965
Speaker 4: hurt feelings because kids were comparing how many compliments they

469
00:22:47,005 --> 00:22:49,525
Speaker 4: had compared with other kids, and it basically turned into

470
00:22:49,525 --> 00:22:53,044
Speaker 4: a popularity contest. And the other problem with it is

471
00:22:53,085 --> 00:22:55,925
Speaker 4: that what is a compliment for a child? What is

472
00:22:55,965 --> 00:22:59,085
Speaker 4: okay to compliment a child about? And I realized that

473
00:22:59,125 --> 00:23:01,365
Speaker 4: the whole thing is actually a bit of a minefield,

474
00:23:01,645 --> 00:23:03,925
Speaker 4: and it's really a new development. The first time I

475
00:23:03,965 --> 00:23:06,925
Speaker 4: thought about this was I noticed that gen X parents

476
00:23:06,965 --> 00:23:09,764
Speaker 4: around me were getting very mindful about how they were

477
00:23:09,805 --> 00:23:12,244
Speaker 4: praising their kid kids, and they'd say things like I

478
00:23:12,285 --> 00:23:15,085
Speaker 4: can see you tried so hard to draw this balloon,

479
00:23:15,325 --> 00:23:17,525
Speaker 4: rather than like, what a great picture of a balloon?

480
00:23:17,885 --> 00:23:20,845
Speaker 4: And I sort of inherited that when I had kids,

481
00:23:20,925 --> 00:23:24,005
Speaker 4: and I didn't compliment their appearances, even though sometimes they

482
00:23:24,045 --> 00:23:27,165
Speaker 4: were just wearing a great outfit. And I always talked

483
00:23:27,165 --> 00:23:32,244
Speaker 4: about effort rather than outcome. But don't children deserve the

484
00:23:32,285 --> 00:23:35,244
Speaker 4: same recognition as adults, Like I love a compliment, it

485
00:23:35,245 --> 00:23:38,445
Speaker 4: makes me feel good. Isn't a child simply asking for

486
00:23:38,565 --> 00:23:41,564
Speaker 4: our attention and our recognition and a pat on the

487
00:23:41,605 --> 00:23:43,325
Speaker 4: head for how beautiful.

488
00:23:42,885 --> 00:23:43,564
Speaker 1: A picture is.

489
00:23:44,165 --> 00:23:47,165
Speaker 4: And I'm just wondering, is this another example of millennials

490
00:23:47,285 --> 00:23:49,844
Speaker 4: overthinking everything to the nth degree?

491
00:23:50,125 --> 00:23:52,445
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, it is, okay, this is what we do.

492
00:23:52,565 --> 00:23:55,485
Speaker 1: We overthink everything. And this feels like, now to give

493
00:23:55,525 --> 00:23:57,685
Speaker 1: a child a compliment, you've got to put it through

494
00:23:57,725 --> 00:24:00,805
Speaker 1: a mind map of like does it praise their appearance?

495
00:24:00,965 --> 00:24:01,165
Speaker 4: No?

496
00:24:01,645 --> 00:24:04,685
Speaker 1: Yes, like to get the compliment even out of your mouth,

497
00:24:05,085 --> 00:24:07,365
Speaker 1: Like I know that even people say, don't say good

498
00:24:07,405 --> 00:24:09,484
Speaker 1: boy or good girl, Like you're not meant to do that,

499
00:24:09,605 --> 00:24:12,804
Speaker 1: because that's incururaging them to be really compliant, Like you

500
00:24:12,845 --> 00:24:15,925
Speaker 1: should be saying well done or good effort. You're not

501
00:24:16,005 --> 00:24:18,405
Speaker 1: meant to say good boy or good girl. So it

502
00:24:18,405 --> 00:24:21,365
Speaker 1: feels like every time we think about praising our child,

503
00:24:21,484 --> 00:24:24,925
Speaker 1: then we're stopping ourselves and going, no, but their appearance

504
00:24:24,965 --> 00:24:27,445
Speaker 1: isn't the most beautiful thing about them. I need to

505
00:24:27,445 --> 00:24:30,365
Speaker 1: praise them for being strong or being kind. And it

506
00:24:30,445 --> 00:24:32,804
Speaker 1: just feels like we're exhausting ourselves by just trying to

507
00:24:32,845 --> 00:24:34,844
Speaker 1: be good and tell them that they're great, Like if

508
00:24:34,885 --> 00:24:36,844
Speaker 1: we're not going to tell them they're great, who's going

509
00:24:36,885 --> 00:24:37,284
Speaker 1: to do it.

510
00:24:37,484 --> 00:24:40,605
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm so exhausted by this, So now we can't

511
00:24:40,605 --> 00:24:45,125
Speaker 2: even praise correctly. But you're right, Amelia, overthinking is the

512
00:24:45,245 --> 00:24:47,205
Speaker 2: millennial brand of parenting, right.

513
00:24:47,484 --> 00:24:48,325
Speaker 3: It's not our fault.

514
00:24:48,365 --> 00:24:53,205
Speaker 2: Though we have parenting books, podcasts, newsletters, Instagram accounts all

515
00:24:53,205 --> 00:24:56,285
Speaker 2: telling us that there's a right way to say good job.

516
00:24:56,725 --> 00:24:59,525
Speaker 2: But our parents just had like a cigarette and didn't

517
00:24:59,525 --> 00:25:00,125
Speaker 2: think about it.

518
00:25:00,325 --> 00:25:04,885
Speaker 3: So of course we're hyper aware. It's how we've been conditioned.

519
00:25:05,285 --> 00:25:08,245
Speaker 4: And I also want to inject a note here that

520
00:25:08,525 --> 00:25:12,604
Speaker 4: praise it does make people we feel good. And on

521
00:25:12,645 --> 00:25:14,445
Speaker 4: the other hand, I know I mentioned that the new

522
00:25:14,484 --> 00:25:16,645
Speaker 4: thinking is that it's kind of like a toxic chemical,

523
00:25:17,165 --> 00:25:20,245
Speaker 4: but there's also studies that show that people who say

524
00:25:20,245 --> 00:25:22,685
Speaker 4: they were praised a lot by their parents are more

525
00:25:22,805 --> 00:25:26,565
Speaker 4: likely to be happy. And there's even a correlation between

526
00:25:26,645 --> 00:25:30,245
Speaker 4: income and how much praise people received as children, which

527
00:25:30,325 --> 00:25:31,524
Speaker 4: is fascinating.

528
00:25:31,005 --> 00:25:33,004
Speaker 1: Because that's what I'm saying as well. There's this woman

529
00:25:33,045 --> 00:25:35,165
Speaker 1: I follow on TikTok, you know, when I'm meant to

530
00:25:35,165 --> 00:25:37,125
Speaker 1: be asleep and I just scroll for hours on end,

531
00:25:37,405 --> 00:25:39,885
Speaker 1: called doctor Chelsea and she said, you're meant to give

532
00:25:39,885 --> 00:25:43,525
Speaker 1: a hundred pieces of praise a day to a day,

533
00:25:43,725 --> 00:25:47,405
Speaker 1: each child, each child, each child, And she was saying

534
00:25:47,445 --> 00:25:49,804
Speaker 1: it's because if all you're doing is correction and direction,

535
00:25:49,925 --> 00:25:52,085
Speaker 1: like if all you're doing is saying no, don't do that, no,

536
00:25:52,205 --> 00:25:54,885
Speaker 1: get off that, put your shoes on, Like, all they're

537
00:25:54,925 --> 00:25:57,405
Speaker 1: hearing from our mouths is things that they need to

538
00:25:57,405 --> 00:25:59,445
Speaker 1: do or things that they need to not do. So

539
00:25:59,484 --> 00:26:02,805
Speaker 1: she was saying, you need to do really micro compliments

540
00:26:02,805 --> 00:26:04,564
Speaker 1: to them, so things like you put your shoes on,

541
00:26:04,645 --> 00:26:07,565
Speaker 1: well done, you came down for dinner, well done. No.

542
00:26:07,685 --> 00:26:10,764
Speaker 4: I wonder how that translates into the workplace too, because

543
00:26:10,845 --> 00:26:13,764
Speaker 4: maybe it's like also a good management technique to be

544
00:26:13,805 --> 00:26:15,565
Speaker 4: praising everyone one hundred times a day.

545
00:26:15,685 --> 00:26:17,645
Speaker 1: But can you imagine that would mean that we're saying

546
00:26:17,685 --> 00:26:20,804
Speaker 1: things like wow, that's an amazing font you used in

547
00:26:20,845 --> 00:26:24,085
Speaker 1: that deck, and wow you circled back when you said

548
00:26:24,125 --> 00:26:27,885
Speaker 1: you'd circle back and close the loop. Good on you. Yeah,

549
00:26:28,045 --> 00:26:29,365
Speaker 1: Like please.

550
00:26:29,445 --> 00:26:31,445
Speaker 2: I for one would like more praise in the workplace.

551
00:26:31,484 --> 00:26:33,325
Speaker 2: I don't think there's enough. There's a lot of stick

552
00:26:33,365 --> 00:26:36,405
Speaker 2: and not heaps of carrot in workplaces, and I think

553
00:26:36,445 --> 00:26:38,725
Speaker 2: it's a good cultural thing to tell people when they've

554
00:26:38,725 --> 00:26:39,565
Speaker 2: done a good job.

555
00:26:39,605 --> 00:26:42,245
Speaker 1: Which we mentioned Herem's that you look beautiful and you're

556
00:26:42,285 --> 00:26:45,165
Speaker 1: doing such a good job today, and you're so strong.

557
00:26:44,925 --> 00:26:48,445
Speaker 3: My beauty. I praise the effort. I tried really hard today.

558
00:26:48,484 --> 00:26:50,445
Speaker 2: I did a lot of research, and I did research

559
00:26:50,484 --> 00:26:52,165
Speaker 2: on this, and I think the point we're missing is

560
00:26:52,805 --> 00:26:55,245
Speaker 2: over praise, excessive praise.

561
00:26:55,405 --> 00:26:56,245
Speaker 3: This is the problem.

562
00:26:56,325 --> 00:26:59,965
Speaker 2: And the research says that over praising kids can turn

563
00:27:00,405 --> 00:27:04,085
Speaker 2: them into external validation junkies, and it turns them into

564
00:27:04,085 --> 00:27:07,405
Speaker 2: doing things for extrinsic praise rather than like the intrinsic

565
00:27:07,484 --> 00:27:11,324
Speaker 2: motivation of working hard. It also diminishes rezilily. So if

566
00:27:11,405 --> 00:27:14,925
Speaker 2: kids have grown up with constantly wow, you ate your

567
00:27:15,045 --> 00:27:19,044
Speaker 2: vegetables so amazing, or everything you do is incredible, then

568
00:27:19,045 --> 00:27:21,325
Speaker 2: the first time they hit a real critic, or if

569
00:27:21,365 --> 00:27:23,965
Speaker 2: the first time they get feedback, the first time they

570
00:27:24,045 --> 00:27:26,725
Speaker 2: even just get sort of a neutral silence or not

571
00:27:26,805 --> 00:27:29,365
Speaker 2: someone pumping their ties, it can feel really crushing and

572
00:27:29,405 --> 00:27:31,885
Speaker 2: really derailing. And I think that we do see that

573
00:27:32,005 --> 00:27:34,565
Speaker 2: in the workplace. There is a generation here that can't

574
00:27:34,565 --> 00:27:38,605
Speaker 2: take feedback and can't handle it when you're not pumping

575
00:27:38,605 --> 00:27:39,845
Speaker 2: their tires every five minutes.

576
00:27:40,005 --> 00:27:43,245
Speaker 4: Yeah, but Mon's I did my research for this segment too,

577
00:27:43,325 --> 00:27:46,125
Speaker 4: and deserve praise and recognition for that, And the studies

578
00:27:46,205 --> 00:27:48,845
Speaker 4: I found said the opposite. So now I think the

579
00:27:48,925 --> 00:27:52,405
Speaker 4: point is that that's why we're overthinking it, because there's

580
00:27:52,445 --> 00:27:54,685
Speaker 4: so much data on both sides. Do you praise them

581
00:27:54,685 --> 00:27:56,405
Speaker 4: one hundred times a day? Do you make sure that

582
00:27:56,445 --> 00:27:59,645
Speaker 4: you don't praise them too much? And then ultimately, maybe

583
00:27:59,765 --> 00:28:02,885
Speaker 4: what we previously might have thought was an instinctive act

584
00:28:03,005 --> 00:28:06,285
Speaker 4: to praise or not praise has instead turned into something

585
00:28:06,325 --> 00:28:08,245
Speaker 4: that we have to intellectualize.

586
00:28:08,445 --> 00:28:10,484
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we just need to tell people and

587
00:28:10,484 --> 00:28:13,605
Speaker 1: they look nice and move on. So now I've brought

588
00:28:13,645 --> 00:28:15,804
Speaker 1: you my favorite video from the internet this week, and

589
00:28:15,845 --> 00:28:17,525
Speaker 1: I want you to have a listen. It's a woman

590
00:28:17,685 --> 00:28:20,965
Speaker 1: named Chelsea who's just become my new hero. Here she is,

591
00:28:21,445 --> 00:28:22,805
Speaker 1: we don't do bath toys.

592
00:28:22,805 --> 00:28:25,044
Speaker 5: Over here, my baby does not do bath toys.

593
00:28:25,045 --> 00:28:27,325
Speaker 1: You want to know why? Too much bullshit?

594
00:28:27,525 --> 00:28:30,925
Speaker 5: Okay, bad time is to get in, wash your ass,

595
00:28:31,005 --> 00:28:33,565
Speaker 5: get out. That's exactly what we do. We get in,

596
00:28:33,685 --> 00:28:35,965
Speaker 5: we wash our ass, we get out because there's two

597
00:28:36,005 --> 00:28:38,645
Speaker 5: minutes of a hassle with these toys. You load the

598
00:28:38,725 --> 00:28:41,445
Speaker 5: toys in, you get the toys out. You dry the

599
00:28:41,565 --> 00:28:44,245
Speaker 5: toys off, you hope the toys don't moved. Gotta keep

600
00:28:44,325 --> 00:28:46,805
Speaker 5: washing all the toys. I already gotta wash this toy.

601
00:28:46,885 --> 00:28:50,045
Speaker 5: I'm not adding a new group of toys that specifically

602
00:28:50,045 --> 00:28:52,125
Speaker 5: get wet and most of the time stay with that.

603
00:28:52,245 --> 00:28:53,405
Speaker 1: I also got to wash.

604
00:28:53,605 --> 00:28:56,005
Speaker 5: That's extra work for what play with your toys when

605
00:28:56,005 --> 00:28:56,685
Speaker 5: you get out the bat.

606
00:28:58,245 --> 00:29:01,405
Speaker 1: I love Chelsea so much. I stepped on a bluey

607
00:29:01,405 --> 00:29:04,445
Speaker 1: toy and a dinosaur last night in my shower, so

608
00:29:04,485 --> 00:29:07,725
Speaker 1: she has now become my new icon. I'm doing less

609
00:29:07,805 --> 00:29:09,485
Speaker 1: toys in the shower and the bar.

610
00:29:09,925 --> 00:29:11,165
Speaker 3: I love this from Chelsea.

611
00:29:11,325 --> 00:29:16,085
Speaker 2: But for people that have neurodivergent kids who like deep pressure,

612
00:29:16,565 --> 00:29:19,845
Speaker 2: bathtime can be really important. And bath time is, as

613
00:29:19,885 --> 00:29:22,645
Speaker 2: you say, Amelia, the calming thing. You might be a

614
00:29:22,725 --> 00:29:24,925
Speaker 2: parent that has a kid that has multiple barths a

615
00:29:24,965 --> 00:29:27,005
Speaker 2: day because it's quite regulating for them.

616
00:29:27,045 --> 00:29:28,765
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's just me being the fun police.

617
00:29:28,805 --> 00:29:32,285
Speaker 2: And I know that Chelsea is not against bathtime per se.

618
00:29:32,485 --> 00:29:35,845
Speaker 2: She's pro bath, just anti bath toy.

619
00:29:36,165 --> 00:29:38,805
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's just saying just get them in there, get

620
00:29:38,845 --> 00:29:41,045
Speaker 1: them clean, and get out. I like it.

621
00:29:41,045 --> 00:29:43,965
Speaker 2: It's effiicient or business. But can I also give you

622
00:29:43,965 --> 00:29:47,565
Speaker 2: guys an amazing hack for bath time. So I fell

623
00:29:47,605 --> 00:29:49,805
Speaker 2: into this trap where both times went on and on

624
00:29:49,805 --> 00:29:51,725
Speaker 2: and on because I could never get them out. I

625
00:29:51,765 --> 00:29:55,325
Speaker 2: went to Bunnings and I bought pond lights like ten dollar.

626
00:29:55,405 --> 00:29:57,685
Speaker 2: They're a little disc and you have a remote that

627
00:29:57,685 --> 00:29:59,565
Speaker 2: comes with it and it turns them into different colors

628
00:29:59,965 --> 00:30:01,605
Speaker 2: and I put them on the bottom of the bath

629
00:30:01,645 --> 00:30:03,645
Speaker 2: and the kids are obsessed with them because it lights

630
00:30:03,725 --> 00:30:05,685
Speaker 2: up the bath. So you turn the lights off, you

631
00:30:05,725 --> 00:30:08,765
Speaker 2: put the pond lights on, and then when you've had enough,

632
00:30:09,045 --> 00:30:11,325
Speaker 2: you take your remote and you turn the pond light

633
00:30:11,405 --> 00:30:14,005
Speaker 2: to red and you say, oh far, time's finished. Like

634
00:30:14,085 --> 00:30:15,845
Speaker 2: the lights turned to red. That means we've got to

635
00:30:15,845 --> 00:30:18,965
Speaker 2: get out. Just works, They're just something in their brain goes,

636
00:30:19,005 --> 00:30:20,565
Speaker 2: oh shit, the light's red out.

637
00:30:20,565 --> 00:30:23,085
Speaker 1: We get that's very good Monds, but that's another toy

638
00:30:23,205 --> 00:30:26,645
Speaker 1: for the bum. You're going against Chelsea's advice. I am

639
00:30:26,645 --> 00:30:30,285
Speaker 1: taking Chelsea's advice. I'm taking everything out and only adding bubbles,

640
00:30:30,285 --> 00:30:32,605
Speaker 1: and I guarantee it will be better. That's what I'm doing.

641
00:30:34,325 --> 00:30:38,245
Speaker 2: There's a tiny internet feud on Facebook that I would

642
00:30:38,365 --> 00:30:41,325
Speaker 2: like to bring to your attention that I discovered this week.

643
00:30:41,885 --> 00:30:44,445
Speaker 2: So move over Hottest one hundred because the ABC are

644
00:30:44,485 --> 00:30:47,325
Speaker 2: running a competition for the Hottest one hundred books of

645
00:30:47,365 --> 00:30:50,805
Speaker 2: the twenty first century, and it listed Where Is the

646
00:30:50,845 --> 00:30:51,525
Speaker 2: Green Sheep?

647
00:30:52,005 --> 00:30:54,645
Speaker 3: By Mem Fox a classic.

648
00:30:54,485 --> 00:30:58,085
Speaker 2: Total classic, but it left one thing off the illustrator

649
00:30:58,205 --> 00:31:02,845
Speaker 2: Judy horror Check. So this week she wrote on her Facebook, Hey, ABC,

650
00:31:03,765 --> 00:31:06,485
Speaker 2: you have Where is the Green Sheep listed as by

651
00:31:06,565 --> 00:31:10,485
Speaker 2: mem Fox alone? You know it's actually by Memfox and

652
00:31:10,525 --> 00:31:13,485
Speaker 2: me right, And then she goes on to say in

653
00:31:13,485 --> 00:31:16,245
Speaker 2: the comments, you know, the people that do the pictures

654
00:31:16,245 --> 00:31:19,765
Speaker 2: in picture books are frequently left off, like we're used

655
00:31:19,805 --> 00:31:23,685
Speaker 2: to it, but it also drives us nuts. So Judy

656
00:31:23,725 --> 00:31:26,965
Speaker 2: Horrichek has had just about enough of illustrators being overlooked,

657
00:31:27,085 --> 00:31:28,605
Speaker 2: and I just want to have a moment for the

658
00:31:28,685 --> 00:31:29,885
Speaker 2: illustrators of children's books.

659
00:31:30,125 --> 00:31:32,085
Speaker 4: Such a good point, I'm ashamed to say. I hadn't

660
00:31:32,085 --> 00:31:35,245
Speaker 4: even thought about this until I came across this item,

661
00:31:35,405 --> 00:31:39,285
Speaker 4: and then I started to think about how important illustrations

662
00:31:39,365 --> 00:31:42,525
Speaker 4: are in children's books and how they stir feeling in

663
00:31:42,645 --> 00:31:45,885
Speaker 4: children that they never forget, Like where would Roll Dhal

664
00:31:45,965 --> 00:31:48,645
Speaker 4: be without the Quentin Blake line drawings exactly?

665
00:31:48,725 --> 00:31:51,485
Speaker 1: Like the kids can't read the words. The thing that's

666
00:31:51,565 --> 00:31:53,965
Speaker 1: drawing them into the book is the illustrations. Like, I

667
00:31:54,045 --> 00:31:56,805
Speaker 1: feel so bad that I've never thought about this before.

668
00:31:56,845 --> 00:31:59,125
Speaker 1: Like I could not tell you the names of the

669
00:31:59,165 --> 00:32:01,365
Speaker 1: illustrators on my daughter's books, and yet we read them

670
00:32:01,365 --> 00:32:03,205
Speaker 1: every night. But I should. Now I'm going to pay

671
00:32:03,245 --> 00:32:03,925
Speaker 1: attention to this.

672
00:32:04,725 --> 00:32:07,205
Speaker 2: Yeah, I read this amazing piece in The Guardian about

673
00:32:07,405 --> 00:32:10,885
Speaker 2: illustrations and the history of illustrations and what was that

674
00:32:11,005 --> 00:32:15,405
Speaker 2: Illustrations are as memory evoking as smells or songs, So

675
00:32:15,445 --> 00:32:17,365
Speaker 2: you see things as a kid and it will stick

676
00:32:17,565 --> 00:32:18,565
Speaker 2: with you for life.

677
00:32:18,685 --> 00:32:20,525
Speaker 3: That's so true, Stacy.

678
00:32:20,605 --> 00:32:23,605
Speaker 2: If kids are visual learners, you know, we've spent all

679
00:32:23,605 --> 00:32:25,565
Speaker 2: this time trying to get them off of iPads.

680
00:32:25,605 --> 00:32:27,365
Speaker 3: They're drawn to visuals all the time.

681
00:32:27,445 --> 00:32:30,045
Speaker 2: Our illustrators actually the real rock stars of our childhoods,

682
00:32:30,045 --> 00:32:31,285
Speaker 2: and we've just been ignoring them.

683
00:32:31,485 --> 00:32:33,525
Speaker 1: They really are, Like we need to pour one out

684
00:32:33,565 --> 00:32:35,445
Speaker 1: for them now, Like they are the reason that our

685
00:32:35,525 --> 00:32:37,685
Speaker 1: kids even drawn to books in the first place. Like

686
00:32:37,725 --> 00:32:40,285
Speaker 1: I guarantee, if they were just black and white words

687
00:32:40,285 --> 00:32:42,165
Speaker 1: on the page, they're not going to sit there for

688
00:32:42,325 --> 00:32:44,285
Speaker 1: more than two seconds. So yeah, we need to pour

689
00:32:44,325 --> 00:32:45,485
Speaker 1: one out for the illustrators.

690
00:32:45,725 --> 00:32:49,165
Speaker 2: I reckon great illustrators, like as you said, Quentin Blake,

691
00:32:49,685 --> 00:32:52,445
Speaker 2: like Helen Oxbury, who did We're going on a bear Hunt?

692
00:32:53,205 --> 00:32:56,365
Speaker 2: They shape the stories as much as the writers do.

693
00:32:56,645 --> 00:32:58,845
Speaker 2: You know, We're going on a bear Hunt was originally

694
00:32:58,885 --> 00:33:01,445
Speaker 2: supposed to be about a line of kings and queens

695
00:33:01,525 --> 00:33:04,245
Speaker 2: going on a bear hunt, but Helen Oxenbury turned it

696
00:33:04,285 --> 00:33:07,045
Speaker 2: into like this regular family squelching through the mud, and

697
00:33:07,045 --> 00:33:09,525
Speaker 2: that's just where the beauty is. And this article also

698
00:33:09,645 --> 00:33:12,645
Speaker 2: said that kids love chaos in illustrations.

699
00:33:12,685 --> 00:33:14,844
Speaker 3: They fixate on messy.

700
00:33:14,725 --> 00:33:18,365
Speaker 2: Disruptive moments in books so peas spilling out or the

701
00:33:18,405 --> 00:33:21,405
Speaker 2: tiger that came to tea drinking all the water out

702
00:33:21,405 --> 00:33:24,005
Speaker 2: of the tap, and they find a lot of joy

703
00:33:24,125 --> 00:33:27,245
Speaker 2: in the disorder, and that these illustrations can also help

704
00:33:27,285 --> 00:33:31,205
Speaker 2: them deal with big feelings chaos, loneliness, loss or anger

705
00:33:31,685 --> 00:33:34,645
Speaker 2: all through the pictures much more than words can. The

706
00:33:34,765 --> 00:33:37,685
Speaker 2: upshot of this is that I went onto the ABC

707
00:33:37,805 --> 00:33:42,005
Speaker 2: Book's website. They have updated the entry for mem Fox.

708
00:33:42,085 --> 00:33:46,085
Speaker 2: They have included Judy horrorcheck. She gets my vote, Judy,

709
00:33:46,245 --> 00:33:48,725
Speaker 2: we love you. I also want to shout out to

710
00:33:48,805 --> 00:33:53,045
Speaker 2: Deborah n Island for drawing my favorite illustrations in Mulgarbill's bicycle.

711
00:33:53,325 --> 00:33:56,285
Speaker 2: And also she did that hippopotamus that goes on.

712
00:33:57,605 --> 00:34:01,685
Speaker 3: That is brilliant hctics one of the bed illustrator right

713
00:34:02,085 --> 00:34:02,965
Speaker 3: such range.

714
00:34:03,245 --> 00:34:05,605
Speaker 2: So thank you illustrators, thank you for bringing the magic.

715
00:34:06,445 --> 00:34:08,165
Speaker 2: To wrap up today's show, we're going to just share

716
00:34:08,205 --> 00:34:11,445
Speaker 2: the things that we are loving sick, so the stuff

717
00:34:11,484 --> 00:34:13,004
Speaker 2: you might text to your friends or put in the

718
00:34:13,085 --> 00:34:15,925
Speaker 2: Mums group, Chat Amelia, what's on your list.

719
00:34:16,364 --> 00:34:19,004
Speaker 4: This is going to sound strange, but my recommendation this

720
00:34:19,044 --> 00:34:24,285
Speaker 4: week is getting the newspaper. Oh. I subscribed to my

721
00:34:24,364 --> 00:34:27,644
Speaker 4: local paper to have it delivered Monday through Sunday, and

722
00:34:28,165 --> 00:34:31,404
Speaker 4: it is bringing me such joy and delight. And I've

723
00:34:31,444 --> 00:34:34,084
Speaker 4: tried to think about why that is. I think it's

724
00:34:34,125 --> 00:34:37,804
Speaker 4: because when you read the news in the newspaper, it's

725
00:34:37,884 --> 00:34:41,404
Speaker 4: giving come closer, it's saying, come here, let's share this experience.

726
00:34:41,444 --> 00:34:43,564
Speaker 4: If you read the news on your phone and your

727
00:34:43,604 --> 00:34:47,244
Speaker 4: droom scrolling, that says go away. It says I don't

728
00:34:47,245 --> 00:34:49,444
Speaker 4: want to be disturbed. And there's something about the act

729
00:34:49,444 --> 00:34:52,524
Speaker 4: of scrolling where it doesn't invite people in in the

730
00:34:52,524 --> 00:34:54,684
Speaker 4: way that a big newspaper does, and a.

731
00:34:54,725 --> 00:34:58,204
Speaker 1: Newspaper's a novelty now to them, like they don't see that,

732
00:34:58,325 --> 00:34:59,045
Speaker 1: so how cool.

733
00:34:59,285 --> 00:35:01,204
Speaker 4: There's so many nice things about it, like you can

734
00:35:01,245 --> 00:35:04,285
Speaker 4: practice numbers and talk about numbers on the world weather page.

735
00:35:04,765 --> 00:35:08,805
Speaker 4: You can do the word games together with a pen

736
00:35:08,884 --> 00:35:10,165
Speaker 4: and paper so fun.

737
00:35:10,444 --> 00:35:12,685
Speaker 3: You can draw mustaches and all the world leaders.

738
00:35:13,524 --> 00:35:19,164
Speaker 4: And I think it's modeling good information hygiene, which I

739
00:35:19,165 --> 00:35:22,524
Speaker 4: think is going to be increasingly a topic of conversation

740
00:35:22,685 --> 00:35:26,325
Speaker 4: going forward with AI and everything else that's going on.

741
00:35:26,685 --> 00:35:29,245
Speaker 4: And I just think overall, it makes me feel calmer

742
00:35:29,484 --> 00:35:33,285
Speaker 4: because when I read the newspaper, it's a finite experience.

743
00:35:33,364 --> 00:35:34,725
Speaker 4: I can get to the end of it and I

744
00:35:34,725 --> 00:35:36,924
Speaker 4: can feel like, Okay, I know what's going on. I

745
00:35:36,964 --> 00:35:39,044
Speaker 4: don't need to keep doom scrolling. I don't need to

746
00:35:39,044 --> 00:35:40,604
Speaker 4: read all the news in the world. This is the

747
00:35:40,645 --> 00:35:43,124
Speaker 4: news that I need to know today. So I think

748
00:35:43,165 --> 00:35:47,605
Speaker 4: it's been a really nice experience, not just for my kids,

749
00:35:47,645 --> 00:35:48,524
Speaker 4: but also for me.

750
00:35:48,964 --> 00:35:51,964
Speaker 2: I love that it's so intentional, and it's also you

751
00:35:52,004 --> 00:35:54,124
Speaker 2: can't skip around all over the place like you can

752
00:35:54,205 --> 00:35:54,725
Speaker 2: on a phone.

753
00:35:54,765 --> 00:35:58,245
Speaker 3: It's just the one single tasking. Love it. What about you, Stacey?

754
00:35:58,524 --> 00:36:01,924
Speaker 1: So mine this week is a docco that I cannot

755
00:36:02,044 --> 00:36:04,964
Speaker 1: stop thinking about. Have you guys watched Unknown Number The

756
00:36:05,044 --> 00:36:11,484
Speaker 1: Catfish Story on Netflix? Stacy obsessed? Yes, mons no?

757
00:36:11,884 --> 00:36:12,725
Speaker 3: Is it a true crime?

758
00:36:13,165 --> 00:36:17,285
Speaker 1: Yes? True crime documentary my favorite kind. So I promise

759
00:36:17,285 --> 00:36:19,044
Speaker 1: I'm not going to spoil it for you. I'll just

760
00:36:19,084 --> 00:36:20,964
Speaker 1: give you top line. But if you want to listen

761
00:36:21,004 --> 00:36:22,524
Speaker 1: to more and you have watched it, Mom and Me

762
00:36:22,564 --> 00:36:24,605
Speaker 1: are allowed did a subs episode on it this week.

763
00:36:24,685 --> 00:36:27,364
Speaker 1: So it's a thirteen year old girl, Lauren Lacari. She

764
00:36:27,444 --> 00:36:30,445
Speaker 1: lives in this tiny town in Michigan, like couple hundred people.

765
00:36:30,884 --> 00:36:33,485
Speaker 1: And Lauren starts stating a boy in her class named Owen,

766
00:36:33,765 --> 00:36:36,765
Speaker 1: and that's when the messages start. So she starts getting

767
00:36:37,245 --> 00:36:40,485
Speaker 1: up to forty to fifty abusive messages to her phone

768
00:36:40,484 --> 00:36:43,245
Speaker 1: a day from an unknown number, and so does Owen.

769
00:36:43,444 --> 00:36:45,844
Speaker 1: And then they start coming to different people, but they

770
00:36:45,884 --> 00:36:48,164
Speaker 1: are the main ones that start receiving these messages. This

771
00:36:48,285 --> 00:36:51,644
Speaker 1: goes on for fifteen months until they finally figure out

772
00:36:51,645 --> 00:36:54,684
Speaker 1: who it is. So it's satisfying in that you will

773
00:36:54,685 --> 00:36:58,124
Speaker 1: find out who it is, and it is infuriating when

774
00:36:58,165 --> 00:37:01,004
Speaker 1: you find out who it is. But I think the

775
00:37:01,044 --> 00:37:04,685
Speaker 1: most interesting part about watching it and I'm sure you'll agree, Amelia,

776
00:37:04,725 --> 00:37:06,444
Speaker 1: Like the question you have when you're watching it is

777
00:37:06,685 --> 00:37:09,004
Speaker 1: why didn't they take the phones off the kids? Like

778
00:37:09,044 --> 00:37:12,364
Speaker 1: why didn't they remove their And it's such an interesting

779
00:37:12,444 --> 00:37:16,444
Speaker 1: reflection on society today in that the other parents of

780
00:37:16,444 --> 00:37:18,444
Speaker 1: the kids at the school said, well, no, we don't

781
00:37:18,484 --> 00:37:20,564
Speaker 1: want our kids phones taken away because we want to

782
00:37:20,564 --> 00:37:21,884
Speaker 1: know where they are. We want to be able to

783
00:37:21,964 --> 00:37:24,124
Speaker 1: track them and to be able to contact them. And

784
00:37:24,165 --> 00:37:26,204
Speaker 1: that's actually something that we touched on in last week's

785
00:37:26,245 --> 00:37:28,604
Speaker 1: episode when we were talking about phone tracking. It very

786
00:37:28,685 --> 00:37:31,884
Speaker 1: much plays into that, like would you track your kids?

787
00:37:31,884 --> 00:37:33,765
Speaker 1: And why do we want to track our kids? So

788
00:37:33,884 --> 00:37:36,084
Speaker 1: this poor girl had to go to school every day

789
00:37:36,245 --> 00:37:38,644
Speaker 1: knowing these messages were going to come through, and it

790
00:37:38,685 --> 00:37:40,484
Speaker 1: was all because the other parents wouldn't get on board

791
00:37:40,484 --> 00:37:42,205
Speaker 1: and support it. It was a bit of an aha

792
00:37:42,285 --> 00:37:45,484
Speaker 1: moment for me because I've find that conversation around phones

793
00:37:45,604 --> 00:37:48,884
Speaker 1: and children it's often about well, the kids don't want

794
00:37:48,924 --> 00:37:51,444
Speaker 1: to give the phone up because they're addicted, and that

795
00:37:51,484 --> 00:37:53,765
Speaker 1: may or may not be true. But what this documentary

796
00:37:53,844 --> 00:37:58,484
Speaker 1: shows is that parents also feel ambivalent about taking their

797
00:37:58,524 --> 00:38:00,444
Speaker 1: phones away from their kids because it's a way to

798
00:38:00,524 --> 00:38:02,564
Speaker 1: keep in touch with their kids and keep in some

799
00:38:02,645 --> 00:38:05,045
Speaker 1: ways control over their kids. And it was a reminder

800
00:38:05,125 --> 00:38:09,124
Speaker 1: that that dynamic goes both ways. Yeah, and when the

801
00:38:09,205 --> 00:38:13,044
Speaker 1: reveal happens, it's so satisfying. Mons, Like there is videos

802
00:38:13,084 --> 00:38:15,645
Speaker 1: all over the internet. You will scream. You will scream

803
00:38:15,685 --> 00:38:17,484
Speaker 1: out loud when you find out who it is. It's

804
00:38:17,524 --> 00:38:22,685
Speaker 1: that satisfying. So please watch for principle, it's the teaching

805
00:38:22,765 --> 00:38:24,404
Speaker 1: a word. You'll have to watch.

806
00:38:25,125 --> 00:38:29,884
Speaker 2: It's the teacher and it's an exercise in resilience. Everybody fails.

807
00:38:30,645 --> 00:38:31,965
Speaker 1: Mon's what's yours this week?

808
00:38:32,325 --> 00:38:35,164
Speaker 2: I have a viral two ingredient dinner for lazy people

809
00:38:35,205 --> 00:38:37,484
Speaker 2: who hate cooking to me ingredient.

810
00:38:37,685 --> 00:38:38,725
Speaker 1: Please give it to me.

811
00:38:39,165 --> 00:38:40,404
Speaker 3: It's changed my life.

812
00:38:40,484 --> 00:38:43,765
Speaker 2: I can't stop talking about this and telling everybody about this.

813
00:38:43,924 --> 00:38:47,044
Speaker 2: So I stole it from the Lee's and Sarah podcast,

814
00:38:47,645 --> 00:38:51,725
Speaker 2: which for transparency reasons, I work on this show. But

815
00:38:51,805 --> 00:38:53,964
Speaker 2: this recipe has gone viral in a way that we've

816
00:38:54,004 --> 00:38:55,525
Speaker 2: never seen anything do before.

817
00:38:56,044 --> 00:38:59,005
Speaker 3: People are losing their minds. It's called the triple Bee.

818
00:38:59,564 --> 00:39:02,844
Speaker 3: All you need to do is get a beef bowler

819
00:39:03,044 --> 00:39:05,965
Speaker 3: blade from the supermarket. It's called a beef bowler blade.

820
00:39:05,964 --> 00:39:06,444
Speaker 3: A triple be.

821
00:39:06,484 --> 00:39:07,685
Speaker 1: It's not like a cut of meat.

822
00:39:08,044 --> 00:39:10,165
Speaker 3: It's a cut of meat. It's like a big roast.

823
00:39:10,404 --> 00:39:11,685
Speaker 3: It's called beef bowl blade.

824
00:39:11,805 --> 00:39:12,524
Speaker 1: Okay, got it.

825
00:39:12,604 --> 00:39:17,044
Speaker 2: And then a jar of Cha Sus sauce. It comes

826
00:39:17,084 --> 00:39:20,444
Speaker 2: in a red jar. What you do is you turn

827
00:39:20,484 --> 00:39:23,044
Speaker 2: on your slow cooker, you dump the triple be in it.

828
00:39:23,404 --> 00:39:27,804
Speaker 2: You pour over the entire jar of Chassius sauce, put

829
00:39:27,805 --> 00:39:30,924
Speaker 2: the lid on, put it on low for eight to

830
00:39:31,004 --> 00:39:32,485
Speaker 2: ten hours, and walk away.

831
00:39:32,725 --> 00:39:33,244
Speaker 3: That is it.

832
00:39:33,364 --> 00:39:37,164
Speaker 2: No browning, no nothing, two things, triple b Cha su,

833
00:39:37,404 --> 00:39:40,564
Speaker 2: walk away and at the end what you will have

834
00:39:41,084 --> 00:39:46,444
Speaker 2: is the most amazing, succulent, delicious pulley a party like

835
00:39:46,765 --> 00:39:48,805
Speaker 2: Chinese infused beef.

836
00:39:49,004 --> 00:39:53,044
Speaker 4: What is the charge eating a meal a succulent Chinese me.

837
00:39:53,765 --> 00:39:56,164
Speaker 2: That you could serve with rice. You could put it

838
00:39:56,245 --> 00:39:58,765
Speaker 2: on like a white roll with some kalslaur in it.

839
00:39:58,765 --> 00:40:02,004
Speaker 2: It's just amazing. It's become a weekly staple in this

840
00:40:02,084 --> 00:40:04,085
Speaker 2: house because it's so ridiculously easy.

841
00:40:04,364 --> 00:40:04,524
Speaker 4: YEA.

842
00:40:04,884 --> 00:40:07,084
Speaker 1: Nothing insides. Rage in me is when you see a

843
00:40:07,125 --> 00:40:09,125
Speaker 1: slow cooker recipe and it says you've got a brown

844
00:40:09,364 --> 00:40:12,605
Speaker 1: in a pan fur, I might No, I'm not doing

845
00:40:12,645 --> 00:40:14,564
Speaker 1: that because I'll just book it in the pan. So

846
00:40:14,645 --> 00:40:15,964
Speaker 1: this is great, love it.

847
00:40:16,685 --> 00:40:18,724
Speaker 2: That's all we have time for on Parenting out Loud

848
00:40:18,765 --> 00:40:21,964
Speaker 2: this week. We are so happy that you're here in

849
00:40:22,044 --> 00:40:24,725
Speaker 2: our new home in this feed, so thank you for

850
00:40:24,805 --> 00:40:27,724
Speaker 2: hitting the follow button. Actually, we do need a name

851
00:40:27,805 --> 00:40:29,444
Speaker 2: for our tribe of smart parents.

852
00:40:29,844 --> 00:40:30,724
Speaker 3: What can we call them?

853
00:40:30,884 --> 00:40:37,765
Speaker 2: Maybe poles call yeah the polyp Please pout louders like

854
00:40:37,884 --> 00:40:38,964
Speaker 2: parenting out Louders.

855
00:40:39,165 --> 00:40:39,805
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that?

856
00:40:40,125 --> 00:40:40,444
Speaker 4: All right?

857
00:40:40,524 --> 00:40:43,644
Speaker 2: Well, before you go, we are so goddamn thirsty for

858
00:40:43,685 --> 00:40:46,884
Speaker 2: praise here. Maybe our parents did not praise us enough,

859
00:40:47,004 --> 00:40:49,244
Speaker 2: and frankly it shows. So if you've got any spare

860
00:40:49,285 --> 00:40:52,205
Speaker 2: praise rattling around that you're taking off your kids now,

861
00:40:52,404 --> 00:40:54,724
Speaker 2: we'd love to have it. So the way you can

862
00:40:54,765 --> 00:40:57,964
Speaker 2: do it is drop us a review on Apple Podcasts.

863
00:40:58,044 --> 00:41:00,165
Speaker 2: It actually helps other people find the show because the

864
00:41:00,205 --> 00:41:03,485
Speaker 2: Apple charts work in this way where it's this weird

865
00:41:03,604 --> 00:41:08,044
Speaker 2: alchemy of reviews and follows, so it's like the worst

866
00:41:08,084 --> 00:41:11,485
Speaker 2: game of roadblocks ever. So please write us a review.

867
00:41:11,645 --> 00:41:14,205
Speaker 2: But here's the challenge. Here's what I would love.

868
00:41:14,725 --> 00:41:17,204
Speaker 3: I would love if you could please write it in

869
00:41:17,484 --> 00:41:21,805
Speaker 3: gentle parenting speak, so very non praise speak. That would

870
00:41:21,844 --> 00:41:22,724
Speaker 3: really make me laugh.

871
00:41:22,765 --> 00:41:25,285
Speaker 2: So none of this this is the best podcast in

872
00:41:25,325 --> 00:41:27,685
Speaker 2: the whole word world. Like that sort of reckless praise

873
00:41:27,805 --> 00:41:29,884
Speaker 2: will go straight to our heads. It's not good for us.

874
00:41:30,325 --> 00:41:32,405
Speaker 2: So I really want to see what people have got.

875
00:41:32,765 --> 00:41:36,484
Speaker 2: So here's an example. You worked really hard on this

876
00:41:36,564 --> 00:41:39,205
Speaker 2: episode and it shows keep going.

877
00:41:39,524 --> 00:41:44,644
Speaker 3: You're learning and growing every week. I'd like the way

878
00:41:44,685 --> 00:41:47,765
Speaker 3: you're speaking here. I bet one day you're gonna get it.

879
00:41:50,044 --> 00:41:52,124
Speaker 2: Please leave us one a little inside joke for all

880
00:41:52,165 --> 00:41:54,364
Speaker 2: of us, and I can't wait to read them. Big

881
00:41:54,524 --> 00:41:57,444
Speaker 2: Thanks to our team this week. Junior Content Producer is

882
00:41:57,484 --> 00:42:01,084
Speaker 2: Tessa Kotovich, produces Leaporgus and Sashatanic and the group ep

883
00:42:01,325 --> 00:42:02,205
Speaker 2: Is Roots de Vine.

884
00:42:02,364 --> 00:42:04,565
Speaker 3: Have a great week. Will be back in this feed

885
00:42:04,805 --> 00:42:10,604
Speaker 3: next Saturday morning. See ya, Bye, Yes