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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Mamma Mia out loud. It's what women are

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Speaker 3: talking about on Friday, August the eighth. I'm Holly Waynwright,

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Speaker 3: I'm Jesse Stephens.

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Speaker 4: And I'm Emmnham.

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Speaker 3: And here's what's on our agenda for today.

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Speaker 5: Is anyone actually a Genius? A new book has a

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Speaker 5: lot to say on the subject, including what the modern

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Speaker 5: day genius looks like?

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Speaker 3: Does it matter if no one we're looking at, watching,

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Speaker 3: listening to is even human anymore? How to spot the

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Speaker 3: AI influencers.

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Speaker 2: And we've got some recommendations including something comfy to wear,

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Speaker 2: a cosmic manifestation. Today's date is actually very important for that,

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Speaker 2: and Holly, you have an ultimate gardening huck.

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Speaker 4: Of course you do.

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Speaker 2: But first, there is a particular woman that we haven't

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Speaker 2: heard from in a little while. So she has a

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Speaker 2: blonde can I speak to the manager Bob? She has

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Speaker 2: a tennis bracelet that jingles when she points to people

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Speaker 2: I know, I know of whom is she has a

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Speaker 2: bit of a temper. Yeah, I'm talking about the Karen.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember the Karen?

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Speaker 5: Oh?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: And then if we decide as a culture that it

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Speaker 5: was a little bit misogynistic because we couldn't identify the

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Speaker 5: male Karen.

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Speaker 3: Is that do we throw that Karen's amongst us?

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Speaker 6: Did?

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Speaker 5: Yes, Karen's protested and they said absolutely not.

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Speaker 3: But I think it's entered the lexicon in a way

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Speaker 3: that can't be retracted. Like my kids talk all the

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Speaker 3: time about did you Karen them? Or did you get Karen? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: So the reason we came to Karen and not everyone

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Speaker 2: named Karen is essentially a Karen. So it became a

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Speaker 2: meme of a name where Karen was given, usually to

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Speaker 2: a middle aged white woman who was described as entitled, demanding,

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Speaker 2: and casually racist. And yes, a lot of women was

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Speaker 2: like this has turned into a slur and it's very misogynistic.

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Speaker 5: And it was used because that's a really important definition.

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Speaker 5: I think that it was being used against any woman

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Speaker 5: who was assertive at all. Yes, So if there were

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Speaker 5: as an instance of like I don't know, speaking or

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Speaker 5: asking for a refund or whatever, then it's like, is

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Speaker 5: that Karen or is that just a woman advocating for us?

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Speaker 4: Yes?

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Speaker 2: And the reason the name Karen was chosen was because

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Speaker 2: it was a largely popular name, especially for the generation

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Speaker 2: to kind of late Gen X early boomers. So TikToker

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Speaker 2: Cassidy Lee posted a video saying it's time we find

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Speaker 2: the millennial version of a Karen, which prompted another creator,

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Speaker 2: Jessica Gallagher, to do a deep dive into popular millennial

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Speaker 2: names to choose our new Karen.

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Speaker 4: Here's a bit of her video.

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Speaker 7: That Lisa, Jennifer, or Jessica. I'm guessing it's gonna be

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Speaker 7: Jessica because I don't know. I feel like Jessica, like

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Speaker 7: Jennifer's like jen seems nice, like Jenna's nice. She goes

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Speaker 7: by Jennifer, probably not that nice. Jessica will mess you up.

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Speaker 7: Jess is going to fight somebody if she gets angry.

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Speaker 7: So I feel like it's gonna be Jessica. I just

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Speaker 7: feel it. I'm sorry Jessica's out there, but like the

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Speaker 7: next Karen's going to be Jessica.

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Speaker 3: Jessica, are you Jessica.

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Speaker 5: I'm not. I'm just Jesse.

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Speaker 4: I thought I.

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Speaker 3: Wondered about that because I never ever think of you

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Speaker 3: as a Jessica, never ever. Not that there same thing

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Speaker 3: wrong with Jessica's tore the Jessica's out there, but I

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Speaker 3: suddenly thought, it's Jessea Jessica.

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Speaker 5: No, I'm not on the official bertificate. I'm just Jesse.

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Speaker 5: But I thought, this is America. What we need to

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Speaker 5: do for journalistic integrity here is work out. Because I

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Speaker 5: like their methodology, which is finding out the popular name.

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Speaker 5: I've kind of peaked millennial, so I went back and went,

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Speaker 5: all right, let's say peak millennial. Let's go nineteen eighty nine, right,

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Speaker 5: because that's sort of right in between. And what was

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Speaker 5: the most popular girl's name in Australia.

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Speaker 3: It was Jessica, although I also looked for Australian millennial

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Speaker 3: names that were big, and I also found Amelia and Mia.

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Speaker 3: So I don't know. I think we know Jessica show.

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Speaker 2: We all know Jessica, who fits a description, who could

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Speaker 2: fight someone if they need to. Also, it reminded me

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Speaker 2: of Lena Dunham's Too Much on Netflix, like Jessica was

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Speaker 2: her name, the main character's name, and I think that

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Speaker 2: was the most perfect name for that generation of women.

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Speaker 5: That's so true. There's a feistiness to people who go

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Speaker 5: by Jessica. I do not mean that as a criticism,

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Speaker 5: but I do think that there's a bit of a fisiness.

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Speaker 5: I also wondered if Sarah knew a lot of Sarah's

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Speaker 5: and the other one. Every second girl at school was

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Speaker 5: named Laura, and so I think Laura could also be one.

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Speaker 2: I know what my generation is going to be? What

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Speaker 2: Maddie true?

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Speaker 3: We sometimes in the Mama Mirror office we have up

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Speaker 3: to six Maddies just rubbing it out there.

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Speaker 5: And they're not Madeline. They're not Madeline, they're not even mads.

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Speaker 5: They're all MADDI.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's all spelled differently. It's very hard to keep up.

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Speaker 5: Is anyone actually a genius?

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Speaker 4: Yes?

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Speaker 7: Me?

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Speaker 5: Do we actually believe in genius? Yes? M does? Who

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Speaker 5: fits a definition? And what do all of them seem

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Speaker 5: to have in common?

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Speaker 4: We're all brown women? Sidebar.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if you noticed, but the last time

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Speaker 3: we talked about charisma and who's got charisma on the show?

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Speaker 3: And did you see that the out louders we're all

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Speaker 3: in the Facebook group saying Emily, I.

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Speaker 5: Just reported them. I reported them, and I locked and

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Speaker 5: deleted trolling occurring in this group.

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Speaker 2: I did will see a single one of those. If

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Speaker 2: you want to post them again and feel free to.

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Speaker 5: And tag them specifically. British journalist Helen Lewis has just

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Speaker 5: published a new book called The Genius Myth, A Curious

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Speaker 5: History of Dangerous Ideas, and she recently sat down on

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Speaker 5: the podcast Honestly to present a sort of history and

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Speaker 5: critique of genius. Here's a little bit of what they

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Speaker 5: talked about.

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Speaker 1: What is our definition of genius in the West today?

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Speaker 8: Well, Samuel Johnson and his dictionary had a definition that

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Speaker 8: was a man possessed of superior faculties, and I think

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Speaker 8: that probably sums it up quite nicely. It's this idea

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Speaker 8: that there are some people who are just in a

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Speaker 8: kind of you know, class by themselves.

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Speaker 1: One of the ideas that you talk about in your

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Speaker 1: book is that some of these people who we think

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Speaker 1: of as geniuses, some of these people who do exceptional things,

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Speaker 1: are largely or at least partially the result of timing

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Speaker 1: and location and luck.

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Speaker 8: Paul Graham, who I think is one of the most

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Speaker 8: interesting and value thinkers, has this idea about the milanaise Leonardo.

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Speaker 8: Why is there no Leonard da Vinci but born in Milan?

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Speaker 8: And he says, because you don't just need Leonardo. You

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Speaker 8: need Florence, you need this incredibly fertile, creative city. And

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Speaker 8: I think that's very true. Elon Musk in Pretoria would

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Speaker 8: not be the richest man in the world. He needed America.

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Speaker 5: So here's the crux of her argument. The West is

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Speaker 5: incredibly invested in this idea of genius. And we can

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Speaker 5: tell a lot about what a society values by who

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Speaker 5: it labels as a genius. Right, it's intrinsically exclusionary, and

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Speaker 5: it's often a license to behave badly. Yet we can't

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Speaker 5: give this idea up. We like to believe that there's

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Speaker 5: something innate about it, almost natural. Someone's born a genius,

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Speaker 5: and we elevate them into sort of something almost divine.

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Speaker 5: We also see genius as quite compatible with mental illness.

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Speaker 5: The genius often suffers a tragic death, maybe young, maybe

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Speaker 5: as a result of their own torturous mind, and we

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Speaker 5: all accept that there is often times a cost to

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Speaker 5: the people who love them. So she writes about how

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Speaker 5: genius has been perpetuated by great man history, which is

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Speaker 5: the idea that history is basically shaped by the story's

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Speaker 5: actions decisions of extraordinary men. She writes, we find it

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Speaker 5: intuitively easy to understand human size stories where someone does something,

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Speaker 5: whereas vague wafts of social change driven by multiple factors

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Speaker 5: might get academics excited but tend to leave everyone else

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Speaker 5: board to tears. I want to know how long did

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Speaker 5: it take you two to realize that the term genius

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Speaker 5: is entirely synonymous with men?

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Speaker 4: And not that long?

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Speaker 2: Unfortunately, when I hear the word genius, even before I

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Speaker 2: knew we were doing the segment, I just saw the

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Speaker 2: word genius immediately. Albert Einstein just came up in my head.

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Speaker 2: And then it was always like the same type of

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Speaker 2: man who looked like Albert Einstein. I picture like a

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Speaker 2: man in some sort of like science gear with like glasses,

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Speaker 2: and he's white, and he's tall, and he wearing these

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Speaker 2: like goggles and he's doing some science experiments. It's like

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Speaker 2: it's always the same picture, and that picture is the

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Speaker 2: exact same through our generations.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, one hundred percent. And he's too busy brushes here,

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Speaker 5: too busy brushes.

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Speaker 4: It's got a lot more.

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Speaker 5: Going on, Yeah, exactly. How about you, Holly, do you

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Speaker 5: think that genius is something that culturally we see as

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Speaker 5: reserved for men.

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Speaker 3: Yes, but we also know there are so many structural

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Speaker 3: reasons for that, right, Like it's only relatively recently that

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Speaker 3: women were allowed to go to universities and be scientists

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Speaker 3: and all that kind of stuff. So you know, there's

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Speaker 3: a whole lot of very obvious structural things about that

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Speaker 3: that then also extend to all minorities everywhere, you know,

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Speaker 3: like colleges and universities were the preserve of the white elite.

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Speaker 3: You know, there were times in history where Jewish people

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Speaker 3: weren't allowed to go into universities there. So there's a

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Speaker 3: whole lot of very very structural, problematic history that leads

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Speaker 3: you to having this very narrow thing of geniuses. But

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Speaker 3: when I think about this, and when I was thinking

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Speaker 3: about this after we were talking about it, I'm interested

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Speaker 3: in creative genius, right because of course, like I stand art, right,

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Speaker 3: like when I say art, like reading music, whatever, in

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Speaker 3: a way that I don't understand science. So I was

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Speaker 3: thinking about creative genius and who gets labeled that also

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Speaker 3: mostly men, of course. But I think that we need

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Speaker 3: to move from the idea that someone is a genius

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Speaker 3: in the same way we need to like unpick the

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Speaker 3: idea that happiness is a destination rather than a series

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Speaker 3: of moments is that there are works of genius. But

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Speaker 3: whether that person is a genius and then everything they

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Speaker 3: touch forevermore is genius, I think is disproven. So I

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Speaker 3: think you could argue that like Hamilton, is a work

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Speaker 3: of genius. Right, Does that mean that Lynn Manuel Miranda,

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Speaker 3: the man who wrote it, is a genius? Not necessarily.

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Speaker 3: He's written a lot of other good musical songs, but

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Speaker 3: they're not all that good, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 3: Do you think that the Beatles were genius? It's like

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Speaker 3: Sergeant Peppers. You could argue that's a work of genius,

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Speaker 3: but not everything they did was great, and also they

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Speaker 3: needed the circumstances, the time, the partnership, the moment lift

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Speaker 3: to that level. I think about women now who are

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Speaker 3: operating on a very high level, as Taylor Swift a genius.

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Speaker 3: Is Oprah Wimfrey a genius for what she did, like

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Speaker 3: in changing the culture and the media, you know, like

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Speaker 3: it's beyond their genius because she made lemonade like or

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Speaker 3: is it that you can have moments of genius? I

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Speaker 3: don't know.

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Speaker 2: If the word genius can be applied to artists or

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Speaker 2: art specifically, because art is subjective.

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Speaker 4: So I think with art, it's.

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Speaker 2: More talent, right, And is it like everyone who's talented

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Speaker 2: also a genius or just because Hamilton was viewed by

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Speaker 2: millions and millions of people? Is that the reason why?

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Speaker 5: I think it's it's just about the idea that there

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Speaker 5: is almost something divine or superhuman within certain individuals that

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Speaker 5: allows them to attain or create something greater than what

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Speaker 5: the average person can create. So like Beethoven or Mozart,

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Speaker 5: I think they're treated as whether or not you like

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Speaker 5: their music, you go I would consider them a genius.

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Speaker 5: And it's interesting that when we look at their stories

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Speaker 5: and the tragedies that befel them are really important parts

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Speaker 5: of their mythology, one hundred percent almost feels like it

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Speaker 5: equals the balance, Like we almost like our geniuses to

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Speaker 5: efface tragedy because we go, oh, okay, fair enough.

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Speaker 3: There's a cost.

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Speaker 5: There's a cost, like the cost, Like I.

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Speaker 3: Disagree with the idea that you can't have artistic genius

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Speaker 3: because I don't mean a lot of people bought that record.

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Speaker 3: I mean it changed the game, right, Like if you

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Speaker 3: create a piece of work that literally becomes so influential,

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Speaker 3: it creates a movement, or it influences a generation. And

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Speaker 3: in the same way that what Jess is talking about

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Speaker 3: about how we like to think genius is divine, we

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Speaker 3: also like to think that that level of creativity is divine,

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Speaker 3: that you know, there was a moment in time where

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Speaker 3: this person was channeling this. And we love the narrative

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Speaker 3: of the tortured creative genius. You can list a million

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Speaker 3: of them. They have to die a horrible death, as

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Speaker 3: you say, Jess, usually by their on hand. And one

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Speaker 3: of the things that Helen Lewis talks about in this

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Speaker 3: interview that's she's like, cozy domesticity is not part of

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Speaker 3: the genius story, like it has to ruin you. So

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Speaker 3: Elon Musk, who she brought up in that clip and

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Speaker 3: is a very good avatar for how he consider genius

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Speaker 3: now is broadly considered to be a genius of some kind,

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Speaker 3: and his very messy and controversial personal life is almost

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Speaker 3: seen to be a part of that genius where you

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Speaker 3: couldn't expect a great man like that. And when I

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Speaker 3: say great man, I'm bringing a a certain amount of sarcasm.

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Speaker 3: And also I'm like talking about like the things he's

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Speaker 3: created and the things he's made. We also know now

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Speaker 3: that like the destructive side of that is huge. But

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Speaker 3: if you're just taking that on board, like you'd be like,

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Speaker 3: we couldn't expect a man like that to have a

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Speaker 3: boring like home life where to care for his fourteen Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 3: Like he's about to not have fourteen children with lots

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Speaker 3: of lots of different people and have unconventional relationships. It's

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Speaker 3: part of his myth. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So the tech innovator, Lewis argues, is the modern day genius.

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Speaker 5: And I think what we do in calling someone a

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Speaker 5: genius rather than someone who has created a work of

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Speaker 5: genius or was struck by genius, And I think the

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Speaker 5: idea of it being a lightning strike is a lot

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Speaker 5: better because I reckon the second someone believes they're a genius,

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Speaker 5: it's all downhill from there. Like I think that you should.

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Speaker 3: Never elon, must definitely definitely does.

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Speaker 5: And because we've got this mythology I hear this all

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Speaker 5: the time, not just immediate but in conversations with people,

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Speaker 5: is that we will be talking about him, and women

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Speaker 5: in particular will be horrified by the fact he has

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Speaker 5: all of these kids who he doesn't appear to look after,

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Speaker 5: and he certainly doesn't have any kind relationship with any

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Speaker 5: of the mother's is enthusiasm for far right exactly. So

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Speaker 5: we excuse the fact that he's a bully, that he

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Speaker 5: exploits people, things that have happened at Tezla politics, and

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Speaker 5: how that's become a little bit of a mess. We

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Speaker 5: excuse all of that because we go, well, would we

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Speaker 5: expect a genius to kind of treat people nicely? Like,

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Speaker 5: we have a completely different criteria for him, And I

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Speaker 5: wonder if by that measure women will never get away

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Speaker 5: with that and would never get away with all the mess.

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Speaker 5: The problem with genius too is that I think that

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Speaker 5: once someone like Elon Musk is given that label, which

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Speaker 5: I think he's then internalized, is that we assume, or

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Speaker 5: he assumes, that a genius is transferable to all things.

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Speaker 5: So we don't even like to think that someone is

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Speaker 5: just a genius in one domain. We love the Leonardo

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Speaker 5: da Vinci idea that you're kind of this innovator and

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Speaker 5: you're this artist and you can invent things, and like,

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Speaker 5: you can do lots of things. So it's like Elon

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Speaker 5: then goes into politics and everyone goes, well, he's a genius,

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Speaker 5: and then like he goes and opens a new business,

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Speaker 5: and it's like he's a That's not how it works. Like,

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Speaker 5: some people are incredibly skilled at some things, but it

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Speaker 5: doesn't mean that your whole self is this remarkable, extraordinary

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Speaker 5: thing that can bestow success upon whatever you touch.

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Speaker 2: I think it also comes down to what genius goes

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Speaker 2: hand in hand with, and for me, it goes hand

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Speaker 2: in hand with popularity and opportunity and money. So similar

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Speaker 2: to the Mozart example, I feel like Mozart, but we

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Speaker 2: see him as a genius because he was the only

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Speaker 2: person doing that in his time, and now there are

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Speaker 2: so many Mozart esque people out who have perfect pitch,

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Speaker 2: who are developing amazing compositions, who if they were in

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Speaker 2: Mozart times, would be his direct competitor. But because there's

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Speaker 2: so many of them, we want to see genius as

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Speaker 2: like an exclusive thing where you can't have too many

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Speaker 2: geniuses because then you all just end up being like

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Speaker 2: the same pool of talent. You have to have one

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Speaker 2: genius who's like above.

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Speaker 5: The rest of them, yes, and who tells a particular story.

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Speaker 5: So I was thinking about the movies I love the most,

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Speaker 5: often the story of a genius. Right, I love those

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Speaker 5: movies like a biopic that's Bob Dylan, that it's recently Elvis, right,

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Speaker 5: and Elvis existed and whether or not he appropriated or

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Speaker 5: was inspired by black artists is a topic of a

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Speaker 5: lot of historical conversation. But Elvis doesn't exist without the

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Speaker 5: black artists that came before him. We don't consider the

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Speaker 5: black artists genius.

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Speaker 3: Yea, they don't consider Elvis genius. Who considers Elvis genius?

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Speaker 3: People his songs like he's performed, but the fact you

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Speaker 3: have to be the source to be the genius.

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Speaker 2: But it's like your criteria for genius artist is different

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Speaker 2: from our criteria of genius.

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Speaker 3: But I think there is a solid argument that, like,

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Speaker 3: you have to have created the thing. Elvis is charisma

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Speaker 3: plus opportunity, yeah, plus a moment in time. And he

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Speaker 3: was amazingly charismatic and good at what he did. But

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Speaker 3: he wasn't a genius. He didn't create it, you know

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Speaker 3: what I mean? So are genius is inventors to a point,

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Speaker 3: whether they're inventing, Like so, Shakespeare is widely considered to

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Speaker 3: be a genius. Right, and if he was just a

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Speaker 3: guy who was good at putting on other people's plays,

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Speaker 3: then that totally changes whether or not he's a genius,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean. Taylor Swift is an interesting

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Speaker 3: example because she's now had a couple of decades of

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Speaker 3: sustained success of music that she's written that you could

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Speaker 3: definitely argue has influenced generations, has influenced the music industry,

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Speaker 3: has changed the game. No one ever suggests that Taylor

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Speaker 3: Swift is a genius? Have you ever heard anyone say

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Speaker 3: that Swifties like no who obviously would say that, but

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Speaker 3: the culture does not consider her to be so Kanye

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Speaker 3: West they say think that all the time. Yeah, even

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Speaker 3: though I mean not so much now obviously, because he's

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Speaker 3: veered so far into the most awful behavior.

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Speaker 5: But I don't think all that. I think he's work

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Speaker 5: got worse.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's also true, but I think that there was

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Speaker 3: a level of behavior that was being excused because he

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Speaker 3: was a genius and his early albums and works of genius,

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Speaker 3: and then it became like you just can't so.

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Speaker 2: You can't sep braid the art from the genius.

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Speaker 3: Well you can for a long time, but then I

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Speaker 3: think a line has been crossed, and I think that

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Speaker 3: you could argue that Kanye has but even before that,

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Speaker 3: people would call him a genius all the time, and

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Speaker 3: they wouldn't call Taylor Swifted genius.

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Speaker 2: So it is associated with men essentially, yeah, yeah, but

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Speaker 2: also like with the support that men get. Because I

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Speaker 2: was reading about Jeff Bezos and his divorce from his

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Speaker 2: wife and everyone was saying how much Mackenzie was going

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Speaker 2: to earn from this divorce forgetting that Jeff Bezos was

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Speaker 2: able to be Jeff Bezos because she managed and looked

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Speaker 2: after all of the kids, because she was driving him

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Speaker 2: everywhere while he wrote business plans in the car. So

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Speaker 2: does he get all the ownership for being that genius

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Speaker 2: because if he didn't have that support, would he be there?

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Speaker 5: And that's what this book talks about as well. It

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Speaker 5: has a really interesting note written by Albert Einstein to

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Speaker 5: his wife which is basically like I mean, it translates

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Speaker 5: to basically, you my slafe, Like these men who achieved

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Speaker 5: such greatness needed someone or an apparatus behind them that

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Speaker 5: did all the other stuff. And like George orwell there

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Speaker 5: was that book recently written about his wife and the

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Speaker 5: genius that was maybe within them too.

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Speaker 3: Would we want to be a genius? Are you secretly

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Speaker 3: hoping that your daughter's a genius Jesse. I mean, obviously

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Speaker 3: she is. Yeah, we know that she is, but like,

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Speaker 3: would you wish genius on anyone one of the things?

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Speaker 3: Is interesting because you're talking about Mozart right earlier on,

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Speaker 3: unless I'm mixing him up with one of the other

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Speaker 3: men in weeks who were really good at the piano.

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Speaker 3: He was good from the minute he could walk right,

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Speaker 3: like there is.

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Speaker 5: A belief prodigy. There's a prodigy?

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Speaker 3: Is he sat down at a piano and he wasn't

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Speaker 3: playing chopsticks like he was already going and so they

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Speaker 3: were wheeling him around Europe to play for kings and

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Speaker 3: like a freak show.

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Speaker 4: So he was like a born genius.

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Speaker 3: Well that's the argument. But is that something you want?

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Speaker 5: My instinct is to say no.

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Speaker 3: But then secret hope is.

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Speaker 5: But I'm thinking about talent, right and how there is

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Speaker 5: something so unknowable. I do not think that as human

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Speaker 5: beings we understand talent. We don't understand where it comes

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Speaker 5: from why, which is why some people have it exactly.

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Speaker 5: And there's this egalitarian view that we're all equal and

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Speaker 5: if we just did our ten thousand hours in practice,

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Speaker 5: we'd all be equal. And we know that's just not true.

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Speaker 5: There are some people that are born with such amazing talent,

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Speaker 5: and some of that gets realized due to luck, some

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Speaker 5: of it.

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Speaker 3: Does privilege and history and blah blah blah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and others will never know it because of those constraints.

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Speaker 5: But I do find something endlessly fascinating about studying talent

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Speaker 5: and knowing.

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Speaker 4: Where it came from.

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Speaker 3: Out louders, in a moment, does it even matter if

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Speaker 3: you're human anymore?

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Speaker 2: Out loud as, We have a listener dilemma and we

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Speaker 2: need your collective wisdom to help us and our partners.

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Speaker 3: UI solve it.

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Speaker 4: Please.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So here's a problem from our listener. It says,

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Speaker 2: my best friend and I have been close for over

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Speaker 2: fifteen years. We've been through divorces, career changes, and raising

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Speaker 2: our kids together. We've always been brutally honest with each other,

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Speaker 2: which is why the situation is tearing me apart. She's

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Speaker 2: been with her partner for four years now, and they're

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Speaker 2: actively house hunting and discussing blending their family since they

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Speaker 2: both have kids from previous marriages. After her difficult divorce

435
00:20:53,942 --> 00:20:56,421
Speaker 2: six years ago, she often tells me how relieved she

436
00:20:56,542 --> 00:20:58,621
Speaker 2: is to finally be with someone who she can truly

437
00:20:58,661 --> 00:21:05,302
Speaker 2: depend on. Here's coming, Here's my dilemma. I was swiping

438
00:21:05,341 --> 00:21:07,622
Speaker 2: through a dating app late one night when I came

439
00:21:07,702 --> 00:21:11,421
Speaker 2: across her partner's profile. At first I thought it was old,

440
00:21:11,542 --> 00:21:13,701
Speaker 2: but one of his photos was from a friend's fortieth

441
00:21:13,742 --> 00:21:15,141
Speaker 2: birthday dinner last month.

442
00:21:15,581 --> 00:21:16,142
Speaker 4: Rookie move.

443
00:21:16,782 --> 00:21:19,382
Speaker 2: I recognize the restaurant and the watch he was wearing,

444
00:21:19,542 --> 00:21:22,422
Speaker 2: which she bought him. Do I tell my best friend

445
00:21:22,581 --> 00:21:25,342
Speaker 2: or stay quiet and hope she discovers it herself. Do

446
00:21:25,381 --> 00:21:28,382
Speaker 2: I confront him? What do you do next? This man

447
00:21:28,462 --> 00:21:31,302
Speaker 2: should be penalized for being stupid. He is not a

448
00:21:31,381 --> 00:21:33,022
Speaker 2: genius in a way.

449
00:21:33,462 --> 00:21:34,901
Speaker 4: Mozart's rolling in great.

450
00:21:36,462 --> 00:21:39,782
Speaker 5: She has to tell this friend immediately. That's yeah, I

451
00:21:39,821 --> 00:21:42,021
Speaker 5: needs tell her friend immediately. I have been in this

452
00:21:42,061 --> 00:21:44,542
Speaker 5: position before, where it is someone I am simply not

453
00:21:44,581 --> 00:21:47,542
Speaker 5: close enough to. It's like an acquaintance, and you go,

454
00:21:49,022 --> 00:21:51,181
Speaker 5: I don't feel like I know enough details to just

455
00:21:51,821 --> 00:21:54,381
Speaker 5: throw you. Like if we were sitting around having dinner

456
00:21:54,381 --> 00:21:55,662
Speaker 5: and that was something we did all the time, I'd

457
00:21:55,661 --> 00:21:58,302
Speaker 5: probably tell you. But otherwise I just feel like I'm prying,

458
00:21:58,381 --> 00:22:00,462
Speaker 5: and I don't want you to think I'm getting any

459
00:22:00,581 --> 00:22:03,022
Speaker 5: glee from sharing this information, and would you tell.

460
00:22:02,942 --> 00:22:05,141
Speaker 2: A friend so that they're really close friends. What she

461
00:22:05,182 --> 00:22:08,542
Speaker 2: does is she takes screenshots of the dating profile. She

462
00:22:08,581 --> 00:22:11,462
Speaker 2: either calls her friend or tells her in person, send

463
00:22:12,061 --> 00:22:15,101
Speaker 2: send the screenshots, and then gives her a little time

464
00:22:15,182 --> 00:22:16,942
Speaker 2: to sort out what she wants to do. Be there

465
00:22:17,061 --> 00:22:19,341
Speaker 2: if her friend needs her to be there, but also

466
00:22:19,381 --> 00:22:20,381
Speaker 2: give her space.

467
00:22:20,101 --> 00:22:21,542
Speaker 4: And then check in in a few weeks.

468
00:22:21,621 --> 00:22:23,621
Speaker 5: I would need to be told over the phone because

469
00:22:23,621 --> 00:22:25,462
Speaker 5: I wouldn't be able to control my response. And I

470
00:22:25,462 --> 00:22:27,222
Speaker 5: don't want to be sitting there at a dinner when

471
00:22:27,302 --> 00:22:28,901
Speaker 5: the entrees haven't come out having a sob.

472
00:22:29,022 --> 00:22:31,861
Speaker 3: This is a serious shit. They're about to blend their families.

473
00:22:31,901 --> 00:22:33,222
Speaker 3: You've got to go round there.

474
00:22:33,262 --> 00:22:35,381
Speaker 5: You've got to sit to her cow that's a good idea.

475
00:22:35,502 --> 00:22:37,502
Speaker 3: You've got to not be in a public place. You've

476
00:22:37,502 --> 00:22:38,862
Speaker 3: got to go around there and be on and sit

477
00:22:38,901 --> 00:22:40,742
Speaker 3: on the couch and show her the pictures. And then

478
00:22:40,742 --> 00:22:42,581
Speaker 3: you have to allow her to do what she wants

479
00:22:42,621 --> 00:22:46,262
Speaker 3: to do with that information. She might say, oh, yeah,

480
00:22:46,341 --> 00:22:49,141
Speaker 3: like we've got an open thing, or like oh you know,

481
00:22:49,222 --> 00:22:50,901
Speaker 3: blah blah, like she might have reasons, and then you

482
00:22:50,942 --> 00:22:54,341
Speaker 3: also have to accept those But you're right, Jesse Is

483
00:22:54,381 --> 00:22:58,261
Speaker 3: it's only okay if you're close, Yeah, really close. Otherwise

484
00:22:58,381 --> 00:22:59,141
Speaker 3: it's not okay.

485
00:22:59,462 --> 00:23:01,621
Speaker 2: And I don't think in front of him straight away, No,

486
00:23:02,022 --> 00:23:02,782
Speaker 2: maybe a bit later.

487
00:23:03,141 --> 00:23:05,502
Speaker 5: Out louders, what would you do next? Share your thoughts

488
00:23:05,502 --> 00:23:07,542
Speaker 5: in the Mummere out loud Facebook group, and if you

489
00:23:07,581 --> 00:23:09,821
Speaker 5: have a dilemma, send it to us at our loud

490
00:23:09,861 --> 00:23:12,542
Speaker 5: at mummia dot com dot au. We love to hear

491
00:23:12,581 --> 00:23:14,061
Speaker 5: your dilemmas and we love to help.

492
00:23:15,022 --> 00:23:18,022
Speaker 3: Does it matter that the people we're aspiring to be

493
00:23:18,422 --> 00:23:22,341
Speaker 3: look like, create like be around these days are not

494
00:23:22,502 --> 00:23:26,462
Speaker 3: even people at all. Once upon a time, little girls

495
00:23:26,502 --> 00:23:29,422
Speaker 3: tortured themselves with the images of beautiful women in magazines

496
00:23:29,942 --> 00:23:32,942
Speaker 3: striding through fashion shoots with their long legs and their

497
00:23:32,982 --> 00:23:36,661
Speaker 3: oddly symmetrical faces, and we were, like, she exists. I

498
00:23:36,782 --> 00:23:38,061
Speaker 3: just didn't get blessed.

499
00:23:37,702 --> 00:23:40,661
Speaker 5: With that question mark as to whether that person we

500
00:23:40,702 --> 00:23:41,901
Speaker 5: were looking at did exist.

501
00:23:42,022 --> 00:23:45,942
Speaker 3: Well, this is true. So and those women were photoshopped. Yes, right,

502
00:23:46,022 --> 00:23:47,982
Speaker 3: they were six foot tall, and they did have long legs,

503
00:23:47,982 --> 00:23:49,662
Speaker 3: and they were much more beautiful than us, But they

504
00:23:49,702 --> 00:23:51,222
Speaker 3: also were.

505
00:23:51,061 --> 00:23:52,821
Speaker 5: Touched up, they had a few more pause than it

506
00:23:52,861 --> 00:23:54,102
Speaker 5: looked like on the front page.

507
00:23:53,901 --> 00:23:54,502
Speaker 4: Of that magazine.

508
00:23:54,502 --> 00:23:57,902
Speaker 3: Then the influencers came first to static and then moving imagery,

509
00:23:57,942 --> 00:24:02,022
Speaker 3: and they were real, but they used filters, face tune,

510
00:24:02,542 --> 00:24:04,101
Speaker 3: that one that makes you look like you're always in

511
00:24:04,141 --> 00:24:06,941
Speaker 3: the sunset, all that kind of stuff, I call it

512
00:24:07,022 --> 00:24:08,861
Speaker 3: that kind of stuff. They use that. So they were real,

513
00:24:08,901 --> 00:24:13,222
Speaker 3: but they were like enhanced, and now they're just straight

514
00:24:13,341 --> 00:24:15,861
Speaker 3: up not real. There was a story last week that

515
00:24:15,901 --> 00:24:18,661
Speaker 3: we didn't talk about because we were sort of tossing

516
00:24:18,702 --> 00:24:20,662
Speaker 3: up this, well, have we ever really aspired to look

517
00:24:20,742 --> 00:24:23,142
Speaker 3: like real people? About the fact that Vogue could run

518
00:24:23,182 --> 00:24:25,542
Speaker 3: an advertising spread. It wasn't a Vogue fashion spread. It

519
00:24:25,542 --> 00:24:28,262
Speaker 3: was an advertising spread from guests that used an ai

520
00:24:28,381 --> 00:24:32,221
Speaker 3: model and stated that they did. And then this week

521
00:24:32,341 --> 00:24:35,502
Speaker 3: we met this woman called Mia on social media and

522
00:24:35,621 --> 00:24:38,462
Speaker 3: not our Maya. Just to be clear, Mia is very real,

523
00:24:38,621 --> 00:24:40,902
Speaker 3: Jesse tell us about Miya.

524
00:24:41,141 --> 00:24:44,421
Speaker 5: Miya Zilu is an influencer. She has one hundred and

525
00:24:44,422 --> 00:24:47,341
Speaker 5: sixty seven thousand followers on Instagram and if you go

526
00:24:47,381 --> 00:24:50,542
Speaker 5: to her profile, if you were just scrolling through, you'd

527
00:24:50,542 --> 00:24:54,542
Speaker 5: think she was real. She's out and about, she's having dinner.

528
00:24:54,542 --> 00:24:56,861
Speaker 5: I think at one stage she might be at Wimbledon.

529
00:24:56,542 --> 00:25:00,902
Speaker 3: Like she's she's a wedding, she's at lunch, she's traveling,

530
00:25:00,942 --> 00:25:04,061
Speaker 3: she's like, I know real people whose Instagram fees look

531
00:25:04,101 --> 00:25:04,782
Speaker 3: exactly like.

532
00:25:04,901 --> 00:25:07,621
Speaker 5: Yes, there's one picture of her cat. The thing is

533
00:25:07,661 --> 00:25:10,701
Speaker 5: that Miya is not a real person, even in her bio.

534
00:25:10,821 --> 00:25:16,061
Speaker 5: It says ai influencer. There's this big pushback from influencers

535
00:25:16,061 --> 00:25:19,542
Speaker 5: from models. I'm a bit confused just to what she

536
00:25:19,982 --> 00:25:23,341
Speaker 5: is selling or if this is just something that agencies

537
00:25:23,381 --> 00:25:24,622
Speaker 5: approving they can do.

538
00:25:24,702 --> 00:25:27,621
Speaker 3: I think maybe she's selling the services of the YESI

539
00:25:27,702 --> 00:25:29,141
Speaker 3: agency you've made her.

540
00:25:29,182 --> 00:25:32,502
Speaker 5: Because from the model perspective, it's really interesting that you

541
00:25:32,702 --> 00:25:35,302
Speaker 5: used to have a shoot in a magazine to promote

542
00:25:35,302 --> 00:25:38,701
Speaker 5: your clothes, but now with e commerce you need so

543
00:25:38,861 --> 00:25:42,381
Speaker 5: many thousands of images that a lot of those brands

544
00:25:42,381 --> 00:25:44,582
Speaker 5: are saying we can't keep up. And the way that

545
00:25:44,581 --> 00:25:48,341
Speaker 5: that cuts costs is incredibly alluring when you would say

546
00:25:48,381 --> 00:25:49,702
Speaker 5: potentially also under eckle.

547
00:25:49,861 --> 00:25:52,581
Speaker 3: So my daughter who looks lots of fast fashion, and

548
00:25:52,621 --> 00:25:55,141
Speaker 3: she's often showing me a picture. It'll be some you know,

549
00:25:55,462 --> 00:25:57,941
Speaker 3: far away round in place, but she'll be like, always

550
00:25:57,942 --> 00:26:00,142
Speaker 3: show me a picture and saying this dress that thing,

551
00:26:00,542 --> 00:26:02,821
Speaker 3: and the person is clearly not real. And the way

552
00:26:02,861 --> 00:26:04,861
Speaker 3: it works is you can take a flat lay picture

553
00:26:05,061 --> 00:26:08,341
Speaker 3: of your dress and then it can go onto an

554
00:26:08,381 --> 00:26:14,622
Speaker 3: ai model. These women are almost always unbelievably skinny. For sir,

555
00:26:14,901 --> 00:26:18,262
Speaker 3: look exactly the same white blonde. They all look like

556
00:26:18,302 --> 00:26:21,782
Speaker 3: Claudia Schiffer in nineteen ninety six, but like very skinny.

557
00:26:21,821 --> 00:26:25,302
Speaker 3: Whatever as it does me, yeah, as does me absolutely.

558
00:26:25,942 --> 00:26:28,222
Speaker 3: Then there's this band called the Velvet sundown On that.

559
00:26:28,302 --> 00:26:31,862
Speaker 5: Sounds like came up with a terrible name.

560
00:26:31,982 --> 00:26:34,061
Speaker 3: Well, the thing is is so this this was around

561
00:26:34,061 --> 00:26:35,941
Speaker 3: a few weeks ago too, and I didn't know what

562
00:26:36,022 --> 00:26:38,302
Speaker 3: to make of it. But then to play you a

563
00:26:38,341 --> 00:26:40,462
Speaker 3: little bit of one of their songs, right, this song

564
00:26:40,581 --> 00:26:42,782
Speaker 3: has way more than two and a half million streams

565
00:26:42,782 --> 00:26:43,421
Speaker 3: on Spotify.

566
00:26:44,621 --> 00:26:51,422
Speaker 6: Dust all the wind boots on the ground smoking the sky.

567
00:26:52,782 --> 00:26:58,981
Speaker 8: Pease found rivers run rare, The drums were all slow.

568
00:27:00,702 --> 00:27:04,022
Speaker 3: Tell me brother, where do we go?

569
00:27:06,061 --> 00:27:06,581
Speaker 2: Raision?

570
00:27:07,381 --> 00:27:09,101
Speaker 3: So they can create robots now that sound like they

571
00:27:09,141 --> 00:27:10,101
Speaker 3: smoked day.

572
00:27:09,942 --> 00:27:13,141
Speaker 4: Which is interesting. But yes, you look terrified that song.

573
00:27:13,182 --> 00:27:14,542
Speaker 4: I'm leaning right in huge.

574
00:27:14,542 --> 00:27:17,141
Speaker 3: And the thing is is the band have like loads

575
00:27:17,141 --> 00:27:19,942
Speaker 3: of imagery. They all look a certain way. They're sort

576
00:27:19,942 --> 00:27:22,781
Speaker 3: of like a big uous in their background. They're like

577
00:27:23,702 --> 00:27:27,222
Speaker 3: rugged and they look like they sound, and that has

578
00:27:27,702 --> 00:27:29,022
Speaker 3: millions of streams.

579
00:27:29,061 --> 00:27:32,502
Speaker 5: I know that all music is iterative, but that sounds

580
00:27:32,542 --> 00:27:35,261
Speaker 5: so iterative. It sounds like four other songs.

581
00:27:35,341 --> 00:27:36,862
Speaker 3: But so does most I know.

582
00:27:37,341 --> 00:27:43,141
Speaker 5: But there's something about knowing how much was scraped in

583
00:27:43,262 --> 00:27:48,702
Speaker 5: order to artificially generate creativity that makes me feel nauseous.

584
00:27:48,742 --> 00:27:49,181
Speaker 5: I hate it.

585
00:27:49,141 --> 00:27:51,382
Speaker 2: But why do you want to know?

586
00:27:51,782 --> 00:27:53,061
Speaker 4: Like, what would that change?

587
00:27:53,462 --> 00:27:53,702
Speaker 3: Well?

588
00:27:53,982 --> 00:27:56,262
Speaker 5: I think that there are two types of people right

589
00:27:56,462 --> 00:27:58,581
Speaker 5: when I and I actually think. This comes right back

590
00:27:58,621 --> 00:28:01,462
Speaker 5: to the genius conversation. When I consume something I love,

591
00:28:01,621 --> 00:28:06,061
Speaker 5: whether that's television, something i've read, a painting, I almost

592
00:28:06,101 --> 00:28:08,422
Speaker 5: always google the person. I really want to know about

593
00:28:08,422 --> 00:28:12,502
Speaker 5: the person because often I want to know what influenced it.

594
00:28:13,182 --> 00:28:14,942
Speaker 5: I have to know a little bit about their lives.

595
00:28:15,141 --> 00:28:17,381
Speaker 5: The random people I follow on Instagram that are just

596
00:28:17,502 --> 00:28:19,861
Speaker 5: from something I saw, Like even a musical. I'll go

597
00:28:19,861 --> 00:28:22,022
Speaker 5: to a musical and just become obsessed with the lead

598
00:28:22,982 --> 00:28:27,901
Speaker 5: and so to me, that music has no depth or

599
00:28:28,061 --> 00:28:32,141
Speaker 5: soul or resonance because there's nothing true about it, Like

600
00:28:32,222 --> 00:28:33,141
Speaker 5: there's nothing true.

601
00:28:33,222 --> 00:28:34,981
Speaker 3: Well, this is what's interesting and what I wanted to

602
00:28:35,022 --> 00:28:37,742
Speaker 3: talk about. Right, So that song has all these streams

603
00:28:37,742 --> 00:28:39,342
Speaker 3: and it went to number one, and that's why everybody

604
00:28:39,382 --> 00:28:41,421
Speaker 3: got upset. And then it turned out that one of

605
00:28:41,422 --> 00:28:43,822
Speaker 3: the things that platforms like Spotify and Apple Music of

606
00:28:43,902 --> 00:28:47,701
Speaker 3: fighting is fake streaming. Right, So robots are listening to

607
00:28:47,742 --> 00:28:49,862
Speaker 3: the robots. There are all these feeds that are being

608
00:28:49,902 --> 00:28:53,461
Speaker 3: screwed with by basically like AI bots, you just stream

609
00:28:53,462 --> 00:28:56,902
Speaker 3: stream streamstream, and lots of genuine artists feeds are being

610
00:28:56,942 --> 00:28:59,661
Speaker 3: infiltrated by this, and it's partly a ploy to be

611
00:28:59,702 --> 00:29:01,622
Speaker 3: able to gain the algorithms and all this stuff. So

612
00:29:01,982 --> 00:29:03,701
Speaker 3: we might be living in a world where the robots

613
00:29:03,742 --> 00:29:06,421
Speaker 3: are listening to the robots. I want to dig in

614
00:29:06,502 --> 00:29:09,021
Speaker 3: on your question, M was does it matter? Does it

615
00:29:09,102 --> 00:29:12,022
Speaker 3: matter that it doesn't exist? When? To be honest, looking

616
00:29:12,062 --> 00:29:15,822
Speaker 3: at her feed, I know a lot of real influences,

617
00:29:15,822 --> 00:29:17,542
Speaker 3: and some of them I actually know and I love

618
00:29:17,542 --> 00:29:20,822
Speaker 3: them to bits, but their feeds look like they're fake. Right,

619
00:29:21,022 --> 00:29:23,382
Speaker 3: So does it matter? That's my question I'm getting to

620
00:29:23,462 --> 00:29:24,421
Speaker 3: is does it matter?

621
00:29:24,661 --> 00:29:27,862
Speaker 2: I think it matters in certain situations, like with the

622
00:29:28,262 --> 00:29:29,062
Speaker 2: fashion model.

623
00:29:29,302 --> 00:29:30,102
Speaker 4: The one thing.

624
00:29:30,062 --> 00:29:33,302
Speaker 2: I really like that I felt like e commerce websites

625
00:29:33,302 --> 00:29:35,701
Speaker 2: were doing really well with fashion where they were starting

626
00:29:35,702 --> 00:29:38,941
Speaker 2: to show models of different sizes on their website. So

627
00:29:39,062 --> 00:29:40,661
Speaker 2: if I wanted to buy a dress, I would be

628
00:29:40,661 --> 00:29:42,382
Speaker 2: able to find a model who was kind of my size,

629
00:29:42,422 --> 00:29:45,062
Speaker 2: so I knew exactly how that dress would fit me.

630
00:29:45,502 --> 00:29:48,021
Speaker 2: And now if you have an AI model, it's not

631
00:29:48,102 --> 00:29:50,542
Speaker 2: even like seeing the piece of clothes you want on

632
00:29:50,582 --> 00:29:53,022
Speaker 2: someone who's not your size, but seeing that piece of

633
00:29:53,062 --> 00:29:56,741
Speaker 2: clothing look like something that fits a certain type of

634
00:29:56,822 --> 00:29:59,662
Speaker 2: body that is completely fake, yeah, to make it more

635
00:29:59,702 --> 00:30:01,661
Speaker 2: appealing to you. And then you get the piece and

636
00:30:01,702 --> 00:30:04,342
Speaker 2: you're like, what the heck is this? This is human different,

637
00:30:04,622 --> 00:30:07,222
Speaker 2: So that is like a very selfish reason. Obviously that

638
00:30:07,422 --> 00:30:10,782
Speaker 2: model is also taking over other people's and photographers jobs

639
00:30:10,782 --> 00:30:15,102
Speaker 2: and editors jobs. But with the fake Mia on Instagram,

640
00:30:15,142 --> 00:30:20,662
Speaker 2: the AI influencer, there's something so interesting about her profile

641
00:30:20,661 --> 00:30:22,382
Speaker 2: that I can't look away from.

642
00:30:22,862 --> 00:30:23,622
Speaker 4: And I think it.

643
00:30:23,661 --> 00:30:26,822
Speaker 2: Was the first AI model that I genuinely couldn't tell

644
00:30:27,102 --> 00:30:30,181
Speaker 2: was AI because and if you look really closely at

645
00:30:30,182 --> 00:30:33,422
Speaker 2: her photos and zoom in, she does have certain floors

646
00:30:33,582 --> 00:30:36,382
Speaker 2: like human floors, like there's this carousel where she's at

647
00:30:36,422 --> 00:30:39,622
Speaker 2: I think a basketball game and I zoomed in on

648
00:30:39,661 --> 00:30:42,862
Speaker 2: her shoes and her the skin around her ankles are

649
00:30:42,902 --> 00:30:45,421
Speaker 2: a bit red where her shoe would have naturally rubbed

650
00:30:45,462 --> 00:30:48,102
Speaker 2: against And it's like little things like that. There's a

651
00:30:48,102 --> 00:30:49,822
Speaker 2: photo of her with the band aid on her arm,

652
00:30:50,222 --> 00:30:52,262
Speaker 2: and it's little things like that where I feel like

653
00:30:52,462 --> 00:30:55,462
Speaker 2: we're going to be in dangerous waters, especially if she's

654
00:30:55,502 --> 00:30:58,342
Speaker 2: going to be starting to market products and things like

655
00:30:58,382 --> 00:31:01,701
Speaker 2: that as an actual influencer, because we actually don't know

656
00:31:01,902 --> 00:31:04,382
Speaker 2: the face behind of who's getting that money and who's

657
00:31:04,422 --> 00:31:05,782
Speaker 2: actually promoting that product.

658
00:31:05,862 --> 00:31:08,662
Speaker 3: She even has feelings, right, there's a post on her

659
00:31:08,702 --> 00:31:11,902
Speaker 3: feed where she's being sad about the trolls and it's

660
00:31:11,982 --> 00:31:15,182
Speaker 3: like she's kind of pointing to the bad messages, which

661
00:31:15,222 --> 00:31:17,741
Speaker 3: is really interesting because again that's a trope that we

662
00:31:17,782 --> 00:31:20,181
Speaker 3: see real people doing in real life. So it's like

663
00:31:20,262 --> 00:31:24,461
Speaker 3: we are so predictable and memorable in the content that

664
00:31:24,502 --> 00:31:28,182
Speaker 3: we create and consume that the robots have just totally

665
00:31:28,182 --> 00:31:30,462
Speaker 3: got a sus right. They're like, this is exactly the

666
00:31:30,542 --> 00:31:33,822
Speaker 3: kind of post that an influencer in her twenties who

667
00:31:33,902 --> 00:31:36,981
Speaker 3: looked like me and was in Eurosummer would make and

668
00:31:37,022 --> 00:31:39,582
Speaker 3: would do. And it's true, like the wedding. I'm at,

669
00:31:39,622 --> 00:31:42,342
Speaker 3: I'm seeing her friends, I'm seeing like it's a whole world,

670
00:31:42,382 --> 00:31:44,622
Speaker 3: and I can't decide if it matters or not.

671
00:31:44,782 --> 00:31:48,822
Speaker 5: Oh matters so much, it's so grossly dystopian. The biggest

672
00:31:48,862 --> 00:31:53,221
Speaker 5: thing to me is the money the jobs, right, is

673
00:31:53,262 --> 00:31:56,822
Speaker 5: that it's not just the models that are getting replaced

674
00:31:56,862 --> 00:31:59,261
Speaker 5: for Vogue to publish them for Vogue.

675
00:31:59,982 --> 00:32:02,422
Speaker 3: Here's what's interesting, because let's remember it wasn't Vogue who

676
00:32:02,462 --> 00:32:04,941
Speaker 3: made no, No No, but they rablish it, which is in

677
00:32:04,982 --> 00:32:07,062
Speaker 3: a photo shoot. If you zoom out from the model,

678
00:32:07,302 --> 00:32:10,102
Speaker 3: you've got, like the person who gets this sandwiches. You've

679
00:32:10,142 --> 00:32:12,461
Speaker 3: got the photographer, the hairstylist, the makeup artist, so the

680
00:32:12,462 --> 00:32:14,981
Speaker 3: stylist for the clothes. You've got the photographer's assistant. You've

681
00:32:15,022 --> 00:32:16,582
Speaker 3: got the person who book the studio. You've got the

682
00:32:16,582 --> 00:32:19,262
Speaker 3: person who runs the studio, sits on reception as You've

683
00:32:19,262 --> 00:32:23,862
Speaker 3: got a whole industry around this industry as it were.

684
00:32:24,862 --> 00:32:27,221
Speaker 3: And it isn't the first time, obviously that humans have

685
00:32:27,302 --> 00:32:29,902
Speaker 3: lost their jobs to automation, but it is nothing. The

686
00:32:30,022 --> 00:32:31,942
Speaker 3: scale is so huge.

687
00:32:32,262 --> 00:32:35,421
Speaker 5: It's at the loss of that artistry. And I think

688
00:32:35,582 --> 00:32:37,701
Speaker 5: you can look at certain things like even the music

689
00:32:37,862 --> 00:32:40,542
Speaker 5: or the image or the model and go, oh well,

690
00:32:40,542 --> 00:32:42,501
Speaker 5: it's not even that good. And to me, that argument's

691
00:32:42,542 --> 00:32:44,662
Speaker 5: completely redundant because it's going to get better and better,

692
00:32:44,862 --> 00:32:47,622
Speaker 5: like if we haven't read the best poem ever written

693
00:32:47,622 --> 00:32:49,822
Speaker 5: by Ai yet, like we'll get there, probably in the

694
00:32:49,822 --> 00:32:54,902
Speaker 5: next six months. But the issue of copyright makes me sick. Meya,

695
00:32:55,822 --> 00:32:58,142
Speaker 5: her face hasn't been drawn by someone. It is an

696
00:32:58,142 --> 00:33:01,421
Speaker 5: amalgamation of other people's faces who didn't get paid, like

697
00:33:01,502 --> 00:33:03,462
Speaker 5: you didn't even own your own face. So they've thrown

698
00:33:03,502 --> 00:33:06,102
Speaker 5: in all these faces. And there are all these arguments

699
00:33:06,102 --> 00:33:08,502
Speaker 5: that people are trying to make and it's like, no, no,

700
00:33:08,622 --> 00:33:13,221
Speaker 5: this is just like late stage dystopian capitalism when no

701
00:33:13,262 --> 00:33:15,262
Speaker 5: one gets paid anymore for any labor.

702
00:33:15,382 --> 00:33:17,182
Speaker 3: I do agree, and I worry about what we need

703
00:33:17,222 --> 00:33:19,862
Speaker 3: people for it all anymore. But if you pull back

704
00:33:19,902 --> 00:33:25,421
Speaker 3: to these images, these influencers, the beauty standard, the band

705
00:33:26,342 --> 00:33:29,421
Speaker 3: if I like boring middle of the road rock music,

706
00:33:29,661 --> 00:33:32,461
Speaker 3: and I listen to that and I like it. I

707
00:33:32,622 --> 00:33:35,142
Speaker 3: just I'm always wrestling with the idea of like does

708
00:33:35,182 --> 00:33:37,822
Speaker 3: it matter that he's not writing about something real? Like

709
00:33:37,862 --> 00:33:40,582
Speaker 3: does it really I think about my kids, who on

710
00:33:40,622 --> 00:33:43,661
Speaker 3: their social media platforms that they're on. They at first

711
00:33:43,661 --> 00:33:45,942
Speaker 3: would be like, huh, look at this terrible AI, right,

712
00:33:46,222 --> 00:33:48,902
Speaker 3: but now they actively love AI content and they'll show me,

713
00:33:48,942 --> 00:33:52,022
Speaker 3: look at this amazing AI. Like they are entertained by

714
00:33:52,661 --> 00:33:55,182
Speaker 3: the things that AI can do, and they don't see

715
00:33:55,182 --> 00:33:56,822
Speaker 3: it as scary in the way that we do because

716
00:33:56,822 --> 00:33:59,302
Speaker 3: they don't maybe understand the scale, but also they don't

717
00:33:59,342 --> 00:34:01,862
Speaker 3: have skin in the game in that way that we do.

718
00:34:02,902 --> 00:34:04,862
Speaker 3: There's something almost amazing about it.

719
00:34:05,062 --> 00:34:07,502
Speaker 2: I think it's hard with kids particularly and how they

720
00:34:07,502 --> 00:34:10,422
Speaker 2: get influenced by AI, because I feel like when you're young,

721
00:34:11,222 --> 00:34:15,142
Speaker 2: anything that you indulge, whether it's like music or TV

722
00:34:15,502 --> 00:34:19,142
Speaker 2: or movies, comes with that added layer of education of

723
00:34:19,221 --> 00:34:22,301
Speaker 2: like seeing something and then finding passion for something and going, oh,

724
00:34:22,382 --> 00:34:24,261
Speaker 2: I could do that, I could write that book, I

725
00:34:24,302 --> 00:34:26,462
Speaker 2: could make a movie like that, I could star in that,

726
00:34:27,102 --> 00:34:29,902
Speaker 2: and then finding out that no, you can't because that

727
00:34:30,022 --> 00:34:32,262
Speaker 2: was just fake and now that doesn't exist anymore.

728
00:34:32,302 --> 00:34:34,701
Speaker 5: So how do you feel, m if you listen to

729
00:34:34,781 --> 00:34:36,341
Speaker 5: a song and you went, Okay, I love this song

730
00:34:36,382 --> 00:34:37,502
Speaker 5: and you're playing it and playing it and then you

731
00:34:37,582 --> 00:34:41,221
Speaker 5: learned it was AI, Like, does that undermine it for you?

732
00:34:41,221 --> 00:34:42,901
Speaker 5: Can you see a world in which your favorite song

733
00:34:43,221 --> 00:34:44,422
Speaker 5: was AI generated.

734
00:34:44,862 --> 00:34:47,662
Speaker 2: I can in the future. I can't write now because

735
00:34:47,661 --> 00:34:50,102
Speaker 2: I still think if I were to like a song

736
00:34:50,142 --> 00:34:52,062
Speaker 2: and then only after the fact find out it's AI,

737
00:34:52,102 --> 00:34:54,661
Speaker 2: I'd be super embarrassed. Yeah, and feel like I have

738
00:34:54,822 --> 00:34:57,062
Speaker 2: such basic takes. Why would you be embarrassed? Because I

739
00:34:57,102 --> 00:34:58,821
Speaker 2: think it comes with the layer of like you are

740
00:34:58,822 --> 00:35:01,142
Speaker 2: such a basic bitch, Like of course you would like that.

741
00:35:01,181 --> 00:35:05,301
Speaker 3: But I can see the appeal for and this is

742
00:35:05,342 --> 00:35:07,941
Speaker 3: depressing in itself, but the appeal for the people who

743
00:35:07,982 --> 00:35:12,142
Speaker 3: create this stuff, right, whether it's models, musicians, writers, anybody.

744
00:35:12,862 --> 00:35:15,941
Speaker 3: Humans are annoying. They have opinions, they have demands, they

745
00:35:15,942 --> 00:35:17,861
Speaker 3: want input. They might have a ten per tandrum theym

746
00:35:17,902 --> 00:35:19,701
Speaker 3: have a bad day. They might have PMS, they might

747
00:35:19,701 --> 00:35:23,422
Speaker 3: have addiction issues, they might be the deadline, they have dietaries.

748
00:35:23,582 --> 00:35:27,301
Speaker 3: Like they're annoying. Robots have no demands of you. And

749
00:35:27,382 --> 00:35:28,862
Speaker 3: I know I call them the robots, and I know

750
00:35:28,942 --> 00:35:31,861
Speaker 3: that's not what it is. And you can see why

751
00:35:31,942 --> 00:35:34,462
Speaker 3: that is so appealing to a business that's like, well,

752
00:35:34,462 --> 00:35:37,662
Speaker 3: I no longer have to think about auditioning models, dealing

753
00:35:37,661 --> 00:35:39,261
Speaker 3: with models. The model might be like I don't like

754
00:35:39,302 --> 00:35:40,781
Speaker 3: how I look in that way. I don't like or

755
00:35:40,822 --> 00:35:44,062
Speaker 3: the writer who's late, the writer who's like, that's what's sad.

756
00:35:44,462 --> 00:35:48,102
Speaker 3: We're like flattening the idea that anyone should have agency

757
00:35:48,142 --> 00:35:49,142
Speaker 3: who's creating a thing.

758
00:35:49,382 --> 00:35:52,622
Speaker 5: I find the question of diversity really interesting. So diversity

759
00:35:52,741 --> 00:35:56,582
Speaker 5: has even been considered as a thing for such a

760
00:35:56,622 --> 00:35:58,701
Speaker 5: short period of time, right where if you were a

761
00:35:59,261 --> 00:36:02,821
Speaker 5: woman of color or you were plus size, finally you

762
00:36:02,942 --> 00:36:05,822
Speaker 5: got a job. Right now, if you want to virtue

763
00:36:05,902 --> 00:36:08,181
Speaker 5: signal your diversity, you can just change the color of

764
00:36:08,181 --> 00:36:09,781
Speaker 5: your model. Yeah, you don't have to hire any And

765
00:36:09,781 --> 00:36:12,822
Speaker 5: I seen that being reported in like in a positive

766
00:36:12,902 --> 00:36:14,982
Speaker 5: light that it's like, well, we've really increased the diversity

767
00:36:15,022 --> 00:36:17,942
Speaker 5: of representation in our fashion shoots like the fake Babe

768
00:36:19,302 --> 00:36:22,781
Speaker 5: get paid fad in her family. After the break, we

769
00:36:22,822 --> 00:36:25,422
Speaker 5: have some brilliant records. I'm breaking all the rules and

770
00:36:25,462 --> 00:36:28,181
Speaker 5: em has some advice about how to manifest.

771
00:36:28,382 --> 00:36:32,142
Speaker 3: One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday

772
00:36:32,181 --> 00:36:36,261
Speaker 3: and Thursday exclusively for Mamma MIA's subscribers. Follow the link

773
00:36:36,261 --> 00:36:38,022
Speaker 3: in the show notes to get us in your ears

774
00:36:38,302 --> 00:36:41,022
Speaker 3: five days a week, and a huge thank you to

775
00:36:41,221 --> 00:36:43,622
Speaker 3: all our current subscribers.

776
00:36:50,181 --> 00:36:54,062
Speaker 6: Vibes ideas atmosphere, something casual, something fun.

777
00:36:54,622 --> 00:36:56,142
Speaker 4: This is my best recommendation.

778
00:36:57,382 --> 00:36:59,542
Speaker 5: It's Friday, so we want to help set up your

779
00:36:59,542 --> 00:37:03,181
Speaker 5: weekend with our best recommendations. Polly May is not here,

780
00:37:03,221 --> 00:37:05,701
Speaker 5: so I hear that you've gone a little bit roguod recommendation.

781
00:37:05,822 --> 00:37:07,701
Speaker 3: So excited. Can you hear the joy in my voice?

782
00:37:07,741 --> 00:37:09,542
Speaker 3: Not that May is not here. I missed her course,

783
00:37:09,942 --> 00:37:12,701
Speaker 3: but it's given me free rain to do some gardening

784
00:37:12,701 --> 00:37:17,741
Speaker 3: wreckos worms involved, No worms involved. The thing is is

785
00:37:17,781 --> 00:37:21,702
Speaker 3: that gardeners around the nation are getting tingly because winter's

786
00:37:21,741 --> 00:37:24,542
Speaker 3: nearly finished and spring is a very busy time in

787
00:37:24,582 --> 00:37:24,982
Speaker 3: the garden.

788
00:37:24,982 --> 00:37:26,102
Speaker 4: They're coming out of hibernation.

789
00:37:26,382 --> 00:37:28,301
Speaker 3: I work upon Sunday morning. I already bored you with

790
00:37:28,342 --> 00:37:30,302
Speaker 3: what happened when I work up on Saturday morning. Welcome

791
00:37:30,342 --> 00:37:32,622
Speaker 3: to my Sunday. On Sunday morning, I woke up. I

792
00:37:32,622 --> 00:37:34,462
Speaker 3: had a message from a gardening friend who was like,

793
00:37:34,542 --> 00:37:37,942
Speaker 3: get to the plant stall now, because it's nearly freaking spring.

794
00:37:38,221 --> 00:37:40,261
Speaker 3: You need to get your stuff in. I'm like, I'm there.

795
00:37:40,582 --> 00:37:44,622
Speaker 3: That's so exciting anyway. So in the spirit of exciting

796
00:37:44,661 --> 00:37:47,741
Speaker 3: gardening time, friends, I've got two gardening wrecos both of

797
00:37:47,741 --> 00:37:49,182
Speaker 3: you are going to think I'm so sad.

798
00:37:49,462 --> 00:37:51,661
Speaker 2: No, I feel I'm left out.

799
00:37:51,701 --> 00:37:52,902
Speaker 4: I don't even have a balcony.

800
00:37:52,942 --> 00:37:54,142
Speaker 3: I know a lot of this is me for a

801
00:37:54,142 --> 00:37:56,542
Speaker 3: long time, but one is for aneela. Do you know

802
00:37:56,582 --> 00:37:57,341
Speaker 3: what aneela is?

803
00:37:57,382 --> 00:37:59,982
Speaker 2: I absolutely how do you even ask me such a

804
00:38:00,781 --> 00:38:02,381
Speaker 2: Is it an instrument like a rake?

805
00:38:03,142 --> 00:38:07,701
Speaker 3: Anela like a it's Aneela is a comfy pad that

806
00:38:07,741 --> 00:38:09,342
Speaker 3: you put on the ground so you can.

807
00:38:11,181 --> 00:38:12,222
Speaker 4: Used to have one of those.

808
00:38:12,542 --> 00:38:17,701
Speaker 3: No, no, but it's not because you're exactly you could

809
00:38:17,701 --> 00:38:20,701
Speaker 3: steal one from church. It's not just because of your

810
00:38:20,701 --> 00:38:24,861
Speaker 3: old knees. And sure the median age range perhaps suggests that,

811
00:38:24,982 --> 00:38:27,862
Speaker 3: but it's also dirt right, so like it's been raining

812
00:38:27,902 --> 00:38:29,982
Speaker 3: a lot where I live lately, So when I'm kneeling

813
00:38:30,022 --> 00:38:31,661
Speaker 3: down to get in my veggie beds and everything, I

814
00:38:31,661 --> 00:38:34,422
Speaker 3: get filthy. So you get a kneeler so that you

815
00:38:34,422 --> 00:38:36,181
Speaker 3: can put it down. And my one that I've got

816
00:38:36,181 --> 00:38:37,022
Speaker 3: that I'm going to recommend.

817
00:38:37,062 --> 00:38:39,301
Speaker 2: But are you wearing your best white while your got it?

818
00:38:39,542 --> 00:38:39,701
Speaker 7: No?

819
00:38:39,741 --> 00:38:41,341
Speaker 3: But I just don't want to be covered and shit,

820
00:38:41,382 --> 00:38:42,862
Speaker 3: I don't want my needs to be wet and sogging.

821
00:38:42,942 --> 00:38:45,942
Speaker 3: Then I won't stay down there as long get late.

822
00:38:46,982 --> 00:38:48,661
Speaker 3: The one I'm recommending is a little bit of a

823
00:38:48,701 --> 00:38:50,422
Speaker 3: boogie when you can get Niela's everywhere. But I like

824
00:38:50,462 --> 00:38:52,262
Speaker 3: this one because it's pretty and it's got a handle

825
00:38:52,302 --> 00:38:53,821
Speaker 3: so you could like carry it around. And it's from

826
00:38:53,902 --> 00:38:56,221
Speaker 3: the SAC, who I've recommended before because they make really

827
00:38:56,221 --> 00:38:58,741
Speaker 3: good gardening belts and they're about to release a really

828
00:38:58,781 --> 00:39:01,261
Speaker 3: good hat which I can't wait to get. But the

829
00:39:01,382 --> 00:39:03,781
Speaker 3: SAC make really nice looking gardening things, and mine has

830
00:39:03,781 --> 00:39:05,502
Speaker 3: got pin stripes and it's very pretty. I know you

831
00:39:05,542 --> 00:39:06,982
Speaker 3: want me to stop, but I've got one more thing.

832
00:39:07,622 --> 00:39:10,181
Speaker 3: The other one is one of the problems with being

833
00:39:11,022 --> 00:39:13,102
Speaker 3: maybe it's me, maybe it is again back to the

834
00:39:13,142 --> 00:39:15,981
Speaker 3: median age. I forget all the time when I've planted, right.

835
00:39:16,062 --> 00:39:18,342
Speaker 3: So I'll go to the plant stall at my farmer's

836
00:39:18,342 --> 00:39:20,102
Speaker 3: market and I'll buy all these little seedlings.

837
00:39:20,102 --> 00:39:23,622
Speaker 2: Oh you bought your neel yesterday, and I'll.

838
00:39:23,382 --> 00:39:26,502
Speaker 3: Be like, I think there's a piece. Those are broccoli,

839
00:39:26,542 --> 00:39:28,582
Speaker 3: those are what? Those are tomatoes? And then you get

840
00:39:28,622 --> 00:39:30,622
Speaker 3: home and you're like, I can't remember what they are

841
00:39:30,661 --> 00:39:31,821
Speaker 3: and I've put them in the ground and I can't

842
00:39:31,822 --> 00:39:32,462
Speaker 3: remember what they are, and.

843
00:39:32,542 --> 00:39:34,062
Speaker 5: Can you find out when they grow well you do

844
00:39:34,302 --> 00:39:36,181
Speaker 5: and some you do Jesse.

845
00:39:36,342 --> 00:39:39,102
Speaker 3: But also you need to treat some of them differently.

846
00:39:39,422 --> 00:39:41,701
Speaker 3: Some need full shade, some mid part shade, some need

847
00:39:41,701 --> 00:39:44,382
Speaker 3: more water. I mean, come on, who am I talking to?

848
00:39:44,502 --> 00:39:47,462
Speaker 3: It's like a gender reveal anyway, So the ticky thing

849
00:39:47,502 --> 00:39:49,221
Speaker 3: is is you write the names on lolly sticks and

850
00:39:49,261 --> 00:39:50,781
Speaker 3: you stick them in and then the rain comes and

851
00:39:50,822 --> 00:39:53,382
Speaker 3: they're gone. So anyway, I bought myself some really nice

852
00:39:53,422 --> 00:39:56,422
Speaker 3: little plant things and you can get them from Bunnings.

853
00:39:56,422 --> 00:39:58,741
Speaker 3: They're really cheap. But also the ones I've got are

854
00:39:58,741 --> 00:40:00,981
Speaker 3: these boogie slate ones that you write on with chalk.

855
00:40:01,022 --> 00:40:01,942
Speaker 3: I don't know how they're going to go.

856
00:40:02,462 --> 00:40:03,102
Speaker 5: They look nice.

857
00:40:03,221 --> 00:40:04,782
Speaker 4: There are a whole different level of gardener.

858
00:40:04,822 --> 00:40:06,781
Speaker 3: Now, well I'm not, but there's a bit of me

859
00:40:06,902 --> 00:40:09,661
Speaker 3: that is, so I've got my basic Bunnings ones, and

860
00:40:09,701 --> 00:40:11,181
Speaker 3: then there's a bit of me that's like, what if

861
00:40:11,181 --> 00:40:13,622
Speaker 3: I tried the slate ones, maybe they'll work. And they

862
00:40:13,822 --> 00:40:16,062
Speaker 3: are from this place I buy seeds from called Veggie

863
00:40:16,062 --> 00:40:18,262
Speaker 3: and Garden Seeds, which is a really really good seed

864
00:40:18,261 --> 00:40:21,261
Speaker 3: place everybody. And they are slate and me right on

865
00:40:21,302 --> 00:40:22,622
Speaker 3: them with chalk and they look great. But it means

866
00:40:22,622 --> 00:40:23,542
Speaker 3: you can use them over and over.

867
00:40:23,781 --> 00:40:26,781
Speaker 5: I like to think that if all of us contributed

868
00:40:26,822 --> 00:40:30,942
Speaker 5: our skills, we would make up one very mediocre tad wife.

869
00:40:30,982 --> 00:40:32,982
Speaker 3: We can just all make You can do the gardener,

870
00:40:33,022 --> 00:40:34,741
Speaker 3: you what would I do?

871
00:40:35,822 --> 00:40:36,261
Speaker 4: That's true?

872
00:40:36,781 --> 00:40:36,941
Speaker 3: Fair?

873
00:40:37,062 --> 00:40:37,382
Speaker 7: You know what?

874
00:40:37,741 --> 00:40:39,022
Speaker 4: God look good.

875
00:40:39,502 --> 00:40:41,622
Speaker 3: She looks real good, and you can make things in

876
00:40:41,661 --> 00:40:46,622
Speaker 3: your them out loud as who do not like my

877
00:40:46,701 --> 00:40:49,221
Speaker 3: niche veggie content. I apologize to the rest of you.

878
00:40:49,221 --> 00:40:50,542
Speaker 3: You're welcome, am.

879
00:40:50,422 --> 00:40:51,701
Speaker 5: I want to know your recommendation?

880
00:40:51,902 --> 00:40:53,901
Speaker 2: Okay, good, because I know I feel so much better

881
00:40:53,902 --> 00:40:57,421
Speaker 2: for mine after doing that. It is a big day

882
00:40:57,462 --> 00:40:59,982
Speaker 2: for astrology girls, and I'm doing you all the service

883
00:41:00,022 --> 00:41:01,262
Speaker 2: by telling you.

884
00:41:01,261 --> 00:41:03,342
Speaker 4: It is the eighth of August.

885
00:41:03,741 --> 00:41:08,701
Speaker 2: Huge day because the Lion's Gate portal is open where

886
00:41:09,622 --> 00:41:11,701
Speaker 2: has been opened since the twenty eighth of July, and

887
00:41:11,741 --> 00:41:13,862
Speaker 2: it closes on the twelfth of August.

888
00:41:14,342 --> 00:41:16,102
Speaker 3: See that an actual shit?

889
00:41:16,221 --> 00:41:16,982
Speaker 4: It's a portal in this.

890
00:41:18,781 --> 00:41:20,462
Speaker 3: Can I see it close?

891
00:41:20,701 --> 00:41:22,341
Speaker 4: It's like a big metaphorical door.

892
00:41:22,502 --> 00:41:22,862
Speaker 5: Okay.

893
00:41:22,942 --> 00:41:25,142
Speaker 2: So the lion Gage Portal is a moment where the

894
00:41:25,181 --> 00:41:29,701
Speaker 2: sun in Leo is in alignment with three important celestial markers.

895
00:41:29,781 --> 00:41:33,702
Speaker 2: The star series, which is the brightest Star, Ryan's Belt

896
00:41:34,142 --> 00:41:38,301
Speaker 2: and Earth. Okay, and when the portal opens, it's like

897
00:41:38,462 --> 00:41:41,102
Speaker 2: all our manifestations are on steroids.

898
00:41:41,781 --> 00:41:42,862
Speaker 5: So now I don't.

899
00:41:42,741 --> 00:41:44,222
Speaker 3: Believe I get left at for my guarden.

900
00:41:44,261 --> 00:41:48,542
Speaker 4: We need to manifest a lot right now. So everyone

901
00:41:48,542 --> 00:41:49,942
Speaker 4: today manifests to.

902
00:41:49,982 --> 00:41:51,341
Speaker 3: Your recommendation is manifesting.

903
00:41:51,542 --> 00:41:54,301
Speaker 2: I promise you, whatever you manifest today, it will happen.

904
00:41:54,382 --> 00:41:55,502
Speaker 5: How do you manifest do you?

905
00:41:55,582 --> 00:41:55,861
Speaker 3: Just like?

906
00:41:56,142 --> 00:41:59,781
Speaker 2: You can do it different ways, like meditation, journaling, like

907
00:41:59,822 --> 00:42:01,982
Speaker 2: thinking about something. My friends like write something on a

908
00:42:01,982 --> 00:42:03,502
Speaker 2: note then put it under their pillow.

909
00:42:03,382 --> 00:42:06,942
Speaker 3: Or bury it in the garden. I have one question

910
00:42:07,022 --> 00:42:09,901
Speaker 3: for you about this, the practical manifestation question and its

911
00:42:09,982 --> 00:42:13,422
Speaker 3: conversation genuine conversations happening with my friends recently. Okay, my

912
00:42:13,542 --> 00:42:16,341
Speaker 3: friend changes her password on all her devices to the

913
00:42:16,382 --> 00:42:19,422
Speaker 3: things she's manifesting at any given time. So she was

914
00:42:19,502 --> 00:42:21,661
Speaker 3: like for ages, she was saving up to try and

915
00:42:21,661 --> 00:42:23,221
Speaker 3: buy a house, and so she'd be like new house

916
00:42:23,221 --> 00:42:26,021
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five, the password on everything. And the point

917
00:42:26,062 --> 00:42:28,582
Speaker 3: of it was is that you're manifesting. Man, every time

918
00:42:28,582 --> 00:42:30,462
Speaker 3: you do it, I love you putting it into the world.

919
00:42:30,462 --> 00:42:32,102
Speaker 3: And think of how many times a day your type

920
00:42:32,102 --> 00:42:34,661
Speaker 3: of password in do we recommend this and will this

921
00:42:34,741 --> 00:42:36,022
Speaker 3: particularly work today?

922
00:42:36,142 --> 00:42:38,701
Speaker 2: I don't know about that. I think your friend's manifesting

923
00:42:38,701 --> 00:42:42,382
Speaker 2: to be hacked. If anything, I think just theickuld really

924
00:42:42,862 --> 00:42:46,502
Speaker 2: strong passwords is my practical recommendation. But I want to

925
00:42:46,502 --> 00:42:49,062
Speaker 2: give you guys my credentials for this. Okay, okay, because

926
00:42:49,062 --> 00:42:49,542
Speaker 2: I actually have.

927
00:42:49,462 --> 00:42:49,942
Speaker 4: Could done so.

928
00:42:50,022 --> 00:42:53,822
Speaker 2: I was the most skeptical person of this stuff until

929
00:42:53,822 --> 00:42:57,502
Speaker 2: two weeks ago, because something happens. Okay, you guys have

930
00:42:57,542 --> 00:42:58,582
Speaker 2: heard of your Sadden return?

931
00:42:58,942 --> 00:43:00,381
Speaker 5: Yes, oh yeah, how old are you?

932
00:43:00,582 --> 00:43:01,502
Speaker 4: I'm twenty nine.

933
00:43:01,902 --> 00:43:04,422
Speaker 2: So your sudden return happens between like twenty seven, like

934
00:43:04,422 --> 00:43:06,181
Speaker 2: your late twenties, and then it happens again in your

935
00:43:06,261 --> 00:43:09,221
Speaker 2: late fifties. Basically, it takes sat In around twenty nine

936
00:43:09,302 --> 00:43:11,421
Speaker 2: years to make a full circle around the sun before

937
00:43:11,422 --> 00:43:13,422
Speaker 2: it's in the same place as when you were born,

938
00:43:13,622 --> 00:43:15,982
Speaker 2: and it says that something massive happens, and then she's

939
00:43:15,982 --> 00:43:18,502
Speaker 2: really something you're aware of, like a big thing happens,

940
00:43:18,542 --> 00:43:19,861
Speaker 2: which is a catalyst for your.

941
00:43:19,781 --> 00:43:20,782
Speaker 4: Next stage of life.

942
00:43:21,342 --> 00:43:23,622
Speaker 2: I never knew what my Saturn return was, and I

943
00:43:23,741 --> 00:43:25,821
Speaker 2: was so angry about it because I never knew the

944
00:43:25,902 --> 00:43:29,261
Speaker 2: time I was born, and that's really important you need

945
00:43:29,261 --> 00:43:30,941
Speaker 2: to know the time you're born, the date you're born,

946
00:43:30,982 --> 00:43:32,982
Speaker 2: where you were born, and then those things you find

947
00:43:33,022 --> 00:43:34,542
Speaker 2: out your birth chart, and then they're able to tell

948
00:43:34,542 --> 00:43:36,821
Speaker 2: your sudden return. And I was over drinks with a

949
00:43:36,902 --> 00:43:39,142
Speaker 2: friend and they all knew that said in return, they

950
00:43:39,142 --> 00:43:40,582
Speaker 2: all knew the time they were born. And it's one

951
00:43:40,622 --> 00:43:43,022
Speaker 2: of those things that makes me so angry.

952
00:43:42,502 --> 00:43:45,502
Speaker 3: Because I don't understand. So at the time that you're born,

953
00:43:45,622 --> 00:43:47,741
Speaker 3: something cataclysmic happens, you.

954
00:43:49,382 --> 00:43:50,941
Speaker 2: Need to know the time you've born to find out

955
00:43:50,942 --> 00:43:53,502
Speaker 2: your birth chart, essentially, and I never knew.

956
00:43:53,781 --> 00:43:55,302
Speaker 4: My mom said she forgot.

957
00:43:55,622 --> 00:43:57,462
Speaker 2: It's not on my birth certificate, and I was I

958
00:43:57,582 --> 00:43:59,502
Speaker 2: was having this conversation of yelling at my friends saying

959
00:43:59,502 --> 00:44:00,022
Speaker 2: I've never known.

960
00:44:00,062 --> 00:44:00,661
Speaker 4: I've never known.

961
00:44:00,822 --> 00:44:03,301
Speaker 2: I get a text message from my mom and it's

962
00:44:03,302 --> 00:44:05,181
Speaker 2: a photo and it's a piece of paper. So I've

963
00:44:05,221 --> 00:44:07,701
Speaker 2: talked about on podcast how my grandfather passed away recently

964
00:44:08,062 --> 00:44:10,261
Speaker 2: and my parents were cleaning out his bedroom and they

965
00:44:10,261 --> 00:44:12,102
Speaker 2: found a piece of paper from when I was born

966
00:44:12,142 --> 00:44:15,221
Speaker 2: that has my weight, my length, the date, my name,

967
00:44:15,382 --> 00:44:17,062
Speaker 2: my parents, and the time I was born.

968
00:44:17,221 --> 00:44:20,062
Speaker 3: Oh wow, I think you manifested well.

969
00:44:20,142 --> 00:44:21,821
Speaker 2: My friends were like, that's a bit woo woo, and

970
00:44:21,862 --> 00:44:23,622
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, yeah, I'm not really like I

971
00:44:23,661 --> 00:44:26,301
Speaker 2: didn't really believe in anything in that moment. But then

972
00:44:26,302 --> 00:44:27,781
Speaker 2: I took the time. I didn't even think of this.

973
00:44:27,942 --> 00:44:28,942
Speaker 2: I took the time, and I was like, oh, I

974
00:44:28,942 --> 00:44:31,341
Speaker 2: can finally find out when my sudden returns happening. So

975
00:44:31,422 --> 00:44:33,701
Speaker 2: I looked at my sudden return and it was on

976
00:44:33,741 --> 00:44:36,821
Speaker 2: the twenty second of March this year, which was the

977
00:44:36,902 --> 00:44:39,301
Speaker 2: day my grandfather was hospitalized and he died a few

978
00:44:39,342 --> 00:44:39,862
Speaker 2: days after.

979
00:44:41,062 --> 00:44:43,902
Speaker 5: Wow. So it was a period of incredible transition.

980
00:44:44,661 --> 00:44:47,821
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's made me go, whoa, that is a sign

981
00:44:48,261 --> 00:44:49,341
Speaker 2: that I think that's a sign.

982
00:44:49,661 --> 00:44:50,221
Speaker 4: So now I'm a.

983
00:44:50,142 --> 00:44:56,301
Speaker 2: Woo woo gir Oh, I'm I'm manifesting. Everyone like do it, Like,

984
00:44:56,502 --> 00:44:59,142
Speaker 2: just do some journaling, go for a walk, just have

985
00:44:59,221 --> 00:45:00,982
Speaker 2: some mean time. What I've been doing since twentieth of

986
00:45:01,022 --> 00:45:02,901
Speaker 2: July is just been going on long walks and then

987
00:45:02,982 --> 00:45:05,341
Speaker 2: kind of like manifesting and it ends up being like

988
00:45:05,342 --> 00:45:07,861
Speaker 2: a meditation kind of thing. Yep, so you just end

989
00:45:07,942 --> 00:45:09,181
Speaker 2: up feeling good regardless.

990
00:45:09,622 --> 00:45:10,862
Speaker 5: Yeah, I do a lot of journals.

991
00:45:10,862 --> 00:45:11,622
Speaker 3: I'm speechless.

992
00:45:11,701 --> 00:45:14,022
Speaker 4: You can do this whole you can garden while you

993
00:45:14,102 --> 00:45:14,421
Speaker 4: do it.

994
00:45:15,622 --> 00:45:18,942
Speaker 3: I'm gonna garden while whatever you want, it's gonna happen.

995
00:45:19,022 --> 00:45:20,982
Speaker 3: Some crystals in the happens.

996
00:45:21,062 --> 00:45:23,102
Speaker 5: Well, I have something for you to wear while your garden. Nice,

997
00:45:23,422 --> 00:45:27,462
Speaker 5: especially with Niela. Leave my Nila alone.

998
00:45:27,502 --> 00:45:29,022
Speaker 3: It's cool. I'm going to share a picture of it

999
00:45:29,062 --> 00:45:30,901
Speaker 3: and everyone's gonna go. I wish myn Niela was as

1000
00:45:30,942 --> 00:45:31,502
Speaker 3: cool as that.

1001
00:45:31,982 --> 00:45:35,622
Speaker 5: I have been shopping a lot on Deeper, as I've

1002
00:45:35,661 --> 00:45:39,142
Speaker 5: talked about. I have bought these Lulu Lemon high Rise

1003
00:45:39,261 --> 00:45:41,982
Speaker 5: Flares and I just bought my second pair. That's how

1004
00:45:42,022 --> 00:45:44,821
Speaker 5: good these pants are right now because they're on Deep

1005
00:45:44,822 --> 00:45:47,142
Speaker 5: hop their secondhand, which is why I don't feel any guilt,

1006
00:45:47,382 --> 00:45:49,781
Speaker 5: and you get them for way reduced and often that

1007
00:45:50,221 --> 00:45:54,462
Speaker 5: Maya has are where secondhand active war where wear gross?

1008
00:45:54,822 --> 00:45:56,941
Speaker 5: Shut up, man, you're not even eat right.

1009
00:45:58,302 --> 00:46:01,181
Speaker 3: We can still She's not here, but I can hear.

1010
00:46:01,502 --> 00:46:03,382
Speaker 5: These ones I've bought. I think one pair still have

1011
00:46:03,462 --> 00:46:07,701
Speaker 5: the tags on. They are perfect for like exercising, but

1012
00:46:07,781 --> 00:46:09,821
Speaker 5: also it's just my uniform when I'm not at work.

1013
00:46:09,862 --> 00:46:11,622
Speaker 5: I have these Flair have you seen them?

1014
00:46:11,661 --> 00:46:15,741
Speaker 3: Like You've been talking about them for some time, but

1015
00:46:15,862 --> 00:46:17,542
Speaker 3: Amelia Lester have changed.

1016
00:46:17,542 --> 00:46:18,622
Speaker 4: Do you wear them to pilates.

1017
00:46:18,701 --> 00:46:24,221
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Luca hates them, which is none of

1018
00:46:24,261 --> 00:46:26,741
Speaker 5: my It doesn't like a flat He hates them. He

1019
00:46:26,781 --> 00:46:30,542
Speaker 5: says it reminds him of his grandmother. Anyway. But I

1020
00:46:30,582 --> 00:46:32,622
Speaker 5: have a second recommendation that, Holly, you're going to really

1021
00:46:32,701 --> 00:46:34,261
Speaker 5: like good broccoli.

1022
00:46:34,661 --> 00:46:36,661
Speaker 3: Yes, I've been growing it.

1023
00:46:37,022 --> 00:46:40,782
Speaker 5: Yes, well, I have a recipe. Have you done magic broccoli?

1024
00:46:40,902 --> 00:46:42,102
Speaker 5: Nagi's magic Brocoli?

1025
00:46:42,302 --> 00:46:43,181
Speaker 4: This sounds really good.

1026
00:46:43,342 --> 00:46:46,022
Speaker 3: So excited because I literally have some very good broccoli

1027
00:46:46,022 --> 00:46:46,341
Speaker 3: in the garden.

1028
00:46:47,221 --> 00:46:50,661
Speaker 5: What am I going to do about broccoli? Every night?

1029
00:46:50,862 --> 00:46:53,822
Speaker 5: I've had a real toxic I do not like broccoli

1030
00:46:53,862 --> 00:46:57,502
Speaker 5: most of the time, too soft. She does this magic

1031
00:46:57,502 --> 00:47:01,341
Speaker 5: broccoli recipe which is like roasted really really crunchy, and

1032
00:47:01,382 --> 00:47:03,821
Speaker 5: I swear it is like eating a chip. So you

1033
00:47:03,862 --> 00:47:06,021
Speaker 5: put it in and like you've got your olive oil,

1034
00:47:06,062 --> 00:47:08,861
Speaker 5: salt and pepper whatever, throat in the oven really really

1035
00:47:08,862 --> 00:47:11,222
Speaker 5: hot flight twenty minutes and you do a little switch

1036
00:47:11,221 --> 00:47:13,942
Speaker 5: through comes out and it looks like brown like because

1037
00:47:13,942 --> 00:47:14,822
Speaker 5: it's so crispy.

1038
00:47:15,102 --> 00:47:16,142
Speaker 3: Brussels sprouts are good like that.

1039
00:47:16,502 --> 00:47:18,022
Speaker 5: Yes, anyway, that's how you make him yummy?

1040
00:47:18,102 --> 00:47:18,341
Speaker 3: Right?

1041
00:47:18,422 --> 00:47:23,661
Speaker 5: Why having like boiled broccoli? Yuck? So then take it

1042
00:47:23,701 --> 00:47:26,582
Speaker 5: out and like you can put lemon or parmesan or something.

1043
00:47:26,781 --> 00:47:27,982
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and hungry.

1044
00:47:28,142 --> 00:47:32,181
Speaker 5: This is I could eat a plate I can't handle.

1045
00:47:32,902 --> 00:47:35,622
Speaker 5: How Like, I just feel like a better person ever

1046
00:47:35,622 --> 00:47:37,142
Speaker 5: since I eat broccoli all the time, and like I

1047
00:47:37,142 --> 00:47:39,221
Speaker 5: think I've become too healthy. You know, I still like

1048
00:47:39,302 --> 00:47:42,182
Speaker 5: my chocolate after my broccoli. But the broccoli, I.

1049
00:47:42,142 --> 00:47:45,622
Speaker 3: Like this from my garden, Jessie, and then you're gonna

1050
00:47:45,622 --> 00:47:46,822
Speaker 3: be doing like double goodness.

1051
00:47:46,822 --> 00:47:48,861
Speaker 5: Oh it's so so yummy. We've been.

1052
00:47:49,062 --> 00:47:51,302
Speaker 2: It goes like a bit nutty, right yeah, like similarly

1053
00:47:51,302 --> 00:47:52,622
Speaker 2: with Brussels sprouts.

1054
00:47:52,221 --> 00:47:54,261
Speaker 5: And just the crunch of it is like that's I've

1055
00:47:54,261 --> 00:47:56,462
Speaker 5: been waiting my whole life for crunchy broccoli. So magic

1056
00:47:56,502 --> 00:47:59,102
Speaker 5: broccoli that is recipue and Eate's recipe link in the

1057
00:47:59,102 --> 00:48:00,142
Speaker 5: show notes that's.

1058
00:47:59,982 --> 00:48:02,782
Speaker 3: The best recommend it between the portal in the sky

1059
00:48:03,302 --> 00:48:07,661
Speaker 3: and the crunchy I mean, come on, guys, your weekend's

1060
00:48:07,701 --> 00:48:10,982
Speaker 3: going to be absolutely banging, all right. I think that's

1061
00:48:10,982 --> 00:48:13,742
Speaker 3: all we've got time for friends. I think she's lucky

1062
00:48:13,822 --> 00:48:16,502
Speaker 3: because things are getting a bit weird. Thank you so

1063
00:48:16,622 --> 00:48:18,261
Speaker 3: much for being here with us all week. We're going

1064
00:48:18,342 --> 00:48:19,781
Speaker 3: to be back in your ears next week. Jesse and

1065
00:48:19,942 --> 00:48:21,542
Speaker 3: m thank all our wonderful team.

1066
00:48:21,582 --> 00:48:24,542
Speaker 5: Please a big thank you to our group executive producer

1067
00:48:24,661 --> 00:48:28,582
Speaker 5: Ruth Devine, executive producer Emiline Gazillis.

1068
00:48:28,022 --> 00:48:31,622
Speaker 2: Our senior audio producers Leah Porgees, our video producer Josh Green,

1069
00:48:31,661 --> 00:48:35,502
Speaker 2: and our junior content producers are Coco and Tessa out Louders.

1070
00:48:35,622 --> 00:48:37,701
Speaker 2: We know you're not ready to say goodbye, so if

1071
00:48:37,701 --> 00:48:40,542
Speaker 2: you're looking for something else to listen to, on yesterday's

1072
00:48:40,542 --> 00:48:45,062
Speaker 2: subscriber episode, we tackle breakups a lot of experience between

1073
00:48:45,102 --> 00:48:48,381
Speaker 2: three of us, some more than others. I'd say one

1074
00:48:48,382 --> 00:48:50,742
Speaker 2: out louder is dealing with the breakup for the first

1075
00:48:50,781 --> 00:48:53,381
Speaker 2: time in twenty years, and there was the other out

1076
00:48:53,382 --> 00:48:55,821
Speaker 2: louder who knew her friend's partner wanted to dump her.

1077
00:48:55,982 --> 00:48:58,582
Speaker 2: We discuss whether she tell her or let things play

1078
00:48:58,582 --> 00:49:00,542
Speaker 2: out on their own. Tap the link in our show

1079
00:49:00,582 --> 00:49:01,461
Speaker 2: notes to check it out.

1080
00:49:02,022 --> 00:49:05,422
Speaker 5: Bye Bye Bye. Shout out to any Mum and me

1081
00:49:05,502 --> 00:49:08,261
Speaker 5: A subscribers listening. If you love the show and you

1082
00:49:08,302 --> 00:49:11,181
Speaker 5: want to support us, prescribing to MoMA MAA is the

1083
00:49:11,342 --> 00:49:13,781
Speaker 5: very best way to do so. There's a link in

1084
00:49:13,822 --> 00:49:14,822
Speaker 5: the episode description