WEBVTT - The Family Ritual That Has Us Divided 0:00:08.234 --> 0:00:10.914 You're listening to I'm a mea podcast. 0:00:14.434 --> 0:00:17.714 Hello and welcome out louders. This isn't quite like a 0:00:17.874 --> 0:00:21.793 usual show. But I am here with one Clus Stevens, Hello, 0:00:22.314 --> 0:00:29.194 one Emily Vernham. We are not really here are What 0:00:29.234 --> 0:00:30.354 are you doing? What are you doing? 0:00:30.834 --> 0:00:33.674 I am in or on the morning. 0:00:37.473 --> 0:00:39.513 Yeah, so that's where Claire is right now as you're 0:00:39.513 --> 0:00:41.194 listening to this what what are you doing? 0:00:41.273 --> 0:00:46.753 I'm recovering from playing to all at the pub. Might 0:00:46.793 --> 0:00:47.793 come in tomorrow, might not. 0:00:49.913 --> 0:00:52.473 I have got a house full of guests, women and 0:00:52.553 --> 0:00:55.354 children only and dogs, women and children only at my house. 0:00:55.434 --> 0:00:58.714 So that's what I'm doing today. But we thought, since 0:00:58.754 --> 0:01:00.953 this is only a holiday for some bits of Australia 0:01:00.954 --> 0:01:03.394 and most of Australia actually just going about their business 0:01:03.474 --> 0:01:06.074 like normal, that you did deserve an episode even though 0:01:06.234 --> 0:01:09.754 ourselves and our team are on a break today. So 0:01:09.794 --> 0:01:12.074 what we've done is we've pulled a conversation out of 0:01:12.074 --> 0:01:13.874 our outluder's group, which is what we do. Love to 0:01:13.874 --> 0:01:16.154 do that because you're always having the best conversations in there. 0:01:16.234 --> 0:01:19.754 They're so smart they are and Facebook, and we thought 0:01:19.834 --> 0:01:23.514 we would pull out a question in there that really 0:01:23.554 --> 0:01:27.114 grabbed us and unpick it because the out louders wanted 0:01:27.114 --> 0:01:31.274 to unpick this one too, right, it's about family group chats. 0:01:32.514 --> 0:01:33.634 Who wants to read it out? 0:01:34.234 --> 0:01:38.314 I can read it out, okay, The out louder writes, 0:01:38.714 --> 0:01:42.394 I have three beautiful and amazing kids twenty one, nineteen 0:01:42.434 --> 0:01:45.634 and sixteen. Two are studying away from home, and the 0:01:45.674 --> 0:01:48.954 third is enduring conversation cards at dinner and board games 0:01:48.954 --> 0:01:52.394 with the parentals. He actually loves it. I hate it, 0:01:52.514 --> 0:01:56.514 she says, I really enjoy this this week, I have 0:01:56.594 --> 0:01:59.234 demanded the following from my family as I'm sick of 0:01:59.274 --> 0:02:02.034 the disconnect. We are a close family unit, but all 0:02:02.154 --> 0:02:04.914 kind of suck at social media, reaching out and the 0:02:04.954 --> 0:02:09.274 whole general connecting thing. So new regime. Each Sunday, we 0:02:09.314 --> 0:02:12.633 are all required to text the family group chat our 0:02:12.674 --> 0:02:15.674 weekly highs and lows. This was once a nightly ritual 0:02:15.714 --> 0:02:18.394 in our home around the dining table and an amazing 0:02:18.474 --> 0:02:22.314 conversation stata. Everyone has to include three picks from their week. 0:02:22.834 --> 0:02:26.434 Anything is acceptable. No explanations are required, but follow up 0:02:26.474 --> 0:02:29.474 questions do need to be answered. This will evolve. I'm 0:02:29.474 --> 0:02:32.274 sure we're calling it the Sunday Roast. If you have 0:02:32.354 --> 0:02:37.714 any ideas, inclusions, improvements, objections, Please share. That is from 0:02:37.914 --> 0:02:41.914 our out louder Lee. It sparked such a good conversation 0:02:42.274 --> 0:02:46.594 and got us thinking about how we keep group chats alive. 0:02:47.314 --> 0:02:49.234 M Do you have a family group chat? 0:02:49.594 --> 0:02:52.434 I do have a family group chat. I'm the most 0:02:52.474 --> 0:02:57.274 active person in our family group chat. Sometimes I'll message 0:02:57.434 --> 0:03:00.114 what parents do this thing where they talk to each 0:03:00.154 --> 0:03:02.474 other in the family group chat. So they use a 0:03:02.474 --> 0:03:05.354 family group chat for all types of communications. So my 0:03:05.434 --> 0:03:08.434 dad at milk literally, my mum will be like, I'm 0:03:08.474 --> 0:03:10.554 at the station, can someone pick me up? 0:03:10.954 --> 0:03:11.394 And Dad? 0:03:11.434 --> 0:03:12.914 We all know what it's gonna be that that's like 0:03:12.994 --> 0:03:16.554 I'll be there and then I'm like, okay, waiting for you, dad, 0:03:16.754 --> 0:03:19.394 five minutes away. Okay, I'm standing near the bus. So 0:03:19.474 --> 0:03:21.514 I mean my sister like, my phone is pinging. 0:03:21.634 --> 0:03:24.234 It's like, that's a separate conversation, separate conversation. 0:03:24.954 --> 0:03:26.994 Step us back of it. Have you always had a 0:03:26.994 --> 0:03:28.954 family group chat or is it a new thing? Because 0:03:28.954 --> 0:03:30.714 this is the thing that's interesting in the way that 0:03:30.754 --> 0:03:32.914 this all unfolded in here. There's lots of people like 0:03:32.914 --> 0:03:34.634 I hate family group chats, or I don't have one, 0:03:34.714 --> 0:03:37.154 or I do have one or whatever? Have you always 0:03:37.154 --> 0:03:38.514 had one since you've left home? 0:03:38.594 --> 0:03:40.994 Kind of yeah, I can't remember a time where I 0:03:41.034 --> 0:03:44.314 didn't have one. I've always had one since I've had phones, 0:03:44.514 --> 0:03:46.714 since me and my sister have had phones. And it's 0:03:46.714 --> 0:03:49.634 not we don't have like full conversations on there. It's 0:03:49.714 --> 0:03:52.594 more just a we're hosting dinner tonight, are you guys 0:03:52.634 --> 0:03:55.834 free tonight? This thing is happening tomorrow. Does anyone want 0:03:55.874 --> 0:03:57.794 to come to this game with us? We're getting tickets. 0:03:58.114 --> 0:03:59.834 And I think that's mainly because me and my sister 0:03:59.914 --> 0:04:03.274 live very close with our parents, So I see my 0:04:03.394 --> 0:04:06.594 parents physically. Like the longest I've been away from not 0:04:06.634 --> 0:04:08.554 seeing them is it's been two weeks unless we're traveling 0:04:08.634 --> 0:04:10.514 or something otherwise I see them all the time. My 0:04:10.594 --> 0:04:12.794 mom works close to me. I always ask her if 0:04:12.834 --> 0:04:14.514 she wants to have lunch. She always says no because 0:04:14.514 --> 0:04:18.234 she's really busy. But my parents aren't big Texters. My 0:04:18.274 --> 0:04:22.074 dad's more of a call guy. Oh he loves calling, 0:04:22.194 --> 0:04:26.514 and my mom's more like in person interactions very quickly. Yeah, 0:04:26.553 --> 0:04:29.153 So I think it's when I read this, on a 0:04:29.193 --> 0:04:32.314 normal week, you would see them? How many times I 0:04:32.354 --> 0:04:34.993 would see my mom at least twice a week. I 0:04:35.034 --> 0:04:37.474 would see my dad probably once to two weeks. 0:04:37.513 --> 0:04:39.873 And in the and then you're also messaging in the 0:04:39.873 --> 0:04:40.354 group chat. 0:04:40.433 --> 0:04:40.633 Yeah. 0:04:40.714 --> 0:04:43.553 Do you directly message your mom separately too, yeah? And 0:04:43.594 --> 0:04:46.034 all of them yeah yeah. And do you have another 0:04:46.034 --> 0:04:48.274 family group chat that's a bit broader. 0:04:48.553 --> 0:04:48.753 Yeah. 0:04:48.873 --> 0:04:53.794 And then I have my I have my on my 0:04:53.873 --> 0:04:59.193 mom's side, like my aunt's uncles, like my dad's there, 0:04:59.234 --> 0:05:02.313 and my cousins, and that's mainly talking about like Nana 0:05:02.474 --> 0:05:05.234 and Papa when he was alive, and communications about who's 0:05:05.234 --> 0:05:07.714 seeing her, who's picking her up, who pretty much, who 0:05:07.714 --> 0:05:10.553 has her that weekend. And then I have my extended 0:05:10.594 --> 0:05:12.993 cousin's chat, and then my cousin's chat on my dad's side, 0:05:12.993 --> 0:05:16.034 and then my cousin's chat on my grandfather's side, and 0:05:16.073 --> 0:05:17.834 my cousin's chat on my grandmother's side. 0:05:17.993 --> 0:05:20.393 What happens in the cousin's chats. 0:05:20.274 --> 0:05:23.553 Oh, it's just like, well, I'm really lucky. I'm really 0:05:23.594 --> 0:05:25.593 lucky because me and my cousins are all the same age. 0:05:25.594 --> 0:05:28.433 So it's like who's coming out tonight, who's drinking tonight, 0:05:29.193 --> 0:05:32.354 let's go out? Is anyone going to this uncle's birthday party, 0:05:32.433 --> 0:05:35.513 yes or no. So it's a lot of like, let's 0:05:35.513 --> 0:05:37.873 make sure we're on the same page. What the what 0:05:37.914 --> 0:05:40.113 does cocktailer tire mean? Can someone send me photos or 0:05:40.113 --> 0:05:42.193 what they're wearing to the wedding? A lot of that, 0:05:42.914 --> 0:05:45.393 And then I have just a chat with my nana, 0:05:45.633 --> 0:05:49.073 which is her accidentally calling me and then me replying going, 0:05:49.234 --> 0:05:51.833 hey Nana, did you call? I missed it. I'm sorry, 0:05:51.914 --> 0:05:54.194 and then her just not responding. 0:05:54.873 --> 0:05:56.593 She's a lot of family communication. 0:05:56.834 --> 0:05:58.593 It's a lot, but like I think I'm one of 0:05:58.594 --> 0:06:01.394 that family that's a lot of communication. The thing is, 0:06:01.553 --> 0:06:05.273 I actually bristled at this post because if I had 0:06:05.313 --> 0:06:08.834 to be forced to do type of group chat activity 0:06:08.953 --> 0:06:10.674 like this, I think I'm the type of person that 0:06:10.674 --> 0:06:13.314 would immediately tap out. That's too much for me. We're 0:06:13.313 --> 0:06:13.993 already doing. 0:06:13.873 --> 0:06:16.833 What we really upset, like, not your mum, but this 0:06:17.553 --> 0:06:20.553 because she's just trying to make She's trying to hold 0:06:20.553 --> 0:06:22.754 the family together. That's what's going on here, is that 0:06:22.794 --> 0:06:24.794 she is trying to hold the family together while they're 0:06:24.794 --> 0:06:25.794 all off doing different thing. 0:06:25.834 --> 0:06:29.154 And I guess she's making it easier by making it. Yeah, 0:06:29.234 --> 0:06:31.474 like it's not taking too much time out of your day. 0:06:31.873 --> 0:06:33.914 But sometimes, and I think about this with a lot 0:06:33.953 --> 0:06:37.553 of my group chats. Sometimes I'm really active and really 0:06:37.553 --> 0:06:39.714 into it, and sometimes I don't touch it for two weeks, 0:06:40.034 --> 0:06:41.753 and I think if I had to have another thing 0:06:41.753 --> 0:06:44.993 on my list just to communicate with family, that would 0:06:45.073 --> 0:06:46.154 make me really annoyed. 0:06:46.393 --> 0:06:49.794 We tried to do this in one of my friendship 0:06:49.914 --> 0:06:53.754 group chats because we live all over Australia, all over 0:06:53.794 --> 0:06:57.553 the world, and we did it where it would be 0:06:57.594 --> 0:07:00.353 a voice note and yeah, to say what the highlight 0:07:00.433 --> 0:07:02.313 and low light of the week was me now, But 0:07:02.354 --> 0:07:05.354 it ended up being like a six minute voice note 0:07:05.393 --> 0:07:08.753 from my friend who I do or who lives in 0:07:08.794 --> 0:07:11.114 Western Australia, and he'd be like, I found a possum, 0:07:11.194 --> 0:07:12.114 and I'm like, I just. 0:07:13.714 --> 0:07:14.194 I care. 0:07:14.354 --> 0:07:17.473 I care, But the obligation to respond to like each 0:07:17.554 --> 0:07:19.194 element of him finding a possum. 0:07:19.354 --> 0:07:21.593 And also voice notes and I know we've talked about 0:07:21.634 --> 0:07:25.394 this before, but they drive me crazy because I'm always 0:07:25.393 --> 0:07:27.314 doing things and I look down and go, someone send 0:07:27.354 --> 0:07:30.514 me a voice note. I'm doing things. I can't listen 0:07:30.554 --> 0:07:32.354 to that, whereas if they've written me something, I can 0:07:32.434 --> 0:07:33.234 just read it. 0:07:33.114 --> 0:07:37.114 Which can I say is so fucking indulgent of us 0:07:37.634 --> 0:07:41.714 to not listen to other people's voice notes, Like I'm sorry, 0:07:41.874 --> 0:07:45.074 We'll just record hours of podcasting a week that some 0:07:45.114 --> 0:07:46.514 of our friends listen to it, and then they send 0:07:46.554 --> 0:07:50.273 me a voice note. I'm like, ew, Like, I think it's. 0:07:50.154 --> 0:07:52.033 Rude to send a voice note because I think it 0:07:52.074 --> 0:07:55.634 says stop what you're doing and listen to this. I've 0:07:55.674 --> 0:07:58.273 got friends who do it, and I'm like, I just 0:07:58.314 --> 0:08:00.634 want to like, oh, we're having dinner tonight, and they 0:08:00.634 --> 0:08:02.674 answer me with a voice note, and I'm like, well, 0:08:02.714 --> 0:08:03.953 that now you've given me a job. 0:08:04.034 --> 0:08:06.594 You know why people do voice notes? I can't screenshot 0:08:06.594 --> 0:08:08.194 it more. 0:08:07.994 --> 0:08:12.594 The ones the voice notes that you do over text 0:08:13.194 --> 0:08:16.754 disappear once somebody's listened to them, which can become confusing 0:08:16.794 --> 0:08:19.994 if I wasn't concentrating the first time. But but no, 0:08:20.154 --> 0:08:22.394 I've had people where they're telling me gossip and I'm like, oh, 0:08:22.393 --> 0:08:23.114 that's quite clever. 0:08:23.194 --> 0:08:26.153 Actually, all right, anyway, as bartas there, So I can't 0:08:26.154 --> 0:08:28.994 even imagine how many family group chats you're in. How 0:08:28.994 --> 0:08:30.314 many family group chats are you in? 0:08:30.434 --> 0:08:35.354 Okay, so, like m got like both sides of the family. Like, 0:08:35.634 --> 0:08:38.674 so I've got my husband's family group chat absolutely dead, 0:08:38.794 --> 0:08:46.194 no vibe there, sorry guys. And then my family group chat, 0:08:46.394 --> 0:08:50.953 which is mostly mum sharing things with no context her 0:08:50.954 --> 0:08:54.994 favorite thing and what you say am about people going 0:08:54.994 --> 0:08:56.874 back and forth, whereas it's like this needs to be 0:08:56.874 --> 0:09:00.434 a private conversation mum's favorite thing and I've never got 0:09:00.434 --> 0:09:02.594 this off my chest, but it really really upsets me. 0:09:03.834 --> 0:09:06.714 If you're trying to find her, say, she's like, I've 0:09:06.754 --> 0:09:10.594 come to the park or I'll meet you at this place. 0:09:11.194 --> 0:09:14.394 Her way of communicating where she is is not say, 0:09:14.594 --> 0:09:17.314 sharing her location, that would be a good idea. She 0:09:17.714 --> 0:09:21.034 takes a photo of what she can see. Just think 0:09:21.074 --> 0:09:24.034 about that for a minute. It is so unhelpful, and 0:09:24.074 --> 0:09:26.434 so our family group just like a tree when you're 0:09:26.434 --> 0:09:29.394 in a forest, it's full of like someone else's car 0:09:30.274 --> 0:09:32.914 and you're like, I that is soone helped. 0:09:32.954 --> 0:09:34.434 She's like, work hard to fight. 0:09:35.674 --> 0:09:38.754 She's like, this is my perspective that I can see, 0:09:38.994 --> 0:09:41.914 so find me here. So it's just a lot of 0:09:41.914 --> 0:09:43.834 that and a lot of what the hell to. 0:09:43.914 --> 0:09:46.554 Find my friend's thing is tricky though, because me and 0:09:46.594 --> 0:09:49.154 my sister have both of our parents and find my friends, 0:09:49.474 --> 0:09:51.474 but they don't have each other. So a lot of 0:09:51.514 --> 0:09:54.474 our group chat is dad messaging us going, girls, can 0:09:54.514 --> 0:09:56.834 you please track your mum's phone? She's lost it again? 0:09:58.074 --> 0:10:00.874 Like this, stop pring into your marriage problem. 0:10:00.914 --> 0:10:05.794 They don't believe in tracking because anyway, I love it. 0:10:05.834 --> 0:10:10.674 But yeah, so my family, my husband's family, mum's extended 0:10:10.714 --> 0:10:14.034 family has actually had to become a Facebook group because 0:10:14.034 --> 0:10:16.634 there are too many of it. No, seriously, mums one 0:10:16.634 --> 0:10:19.074 of seven and they all have kids, and so it's 0:10:19.114 --> 0:10:21.394 a Facebook grip. You've got to make a public post. 0:10:21.074 --> 0:10:22.914 You got to make a public post when you have 0:10:22.954 --> 0:10:24.914 a baby, You've got to make a public post when 0:10:24.954 --> 0:10:28.274 you've got some big life news. And it actually goes 0:10:28.314 --> 0:10:31.514 off and over the years because it's existed for a while. 0:10:31.834 --> 0:10:33.354 There are a lot of people who are not part 0:10:33.394 --> 0:10:37.434 of the family, who are in the family groul exes 0:10:37.594 --> 0:10:41.194 yet no, like some members of the other side of 0:10:41.194 --> 0:10:44.554 the family, or like just just cont some of my 0:10:44.634 --> 0:10:46.874 mum's friends who are like, I'm interested in what your 0:10:46.914 --> 0:10:48.034 family's do. 0:10:48.074 --> 0:10:51.034 You know what boomers love to do add people to groups. 0:10:53.074 --> 0:10:55.394 Okay, I'm going to represent the portion of the lessoners 0:10:55.434 --> 0:10:59.914 who are not group chat people. Yeah, because I have 0:10:59.954 --> 0:11:01.714 a family group chat with my family who live in 0:11:01.754 --> 0:11:06.234 England because that's where my family live. Hardly anything ever 0:11:06.274 --> 0:11:08.514 happens in there. Every now and again, I'll be like, 0:11:08.634 --> 0:11:10.634 it'll be like my brother ran a marathon, woop, and 0:11:10.634 --> 0:11:13.354 everyone goes yay, and I'll be like Matilda kicked a 0:11:13.434 --> 0:11:15.754 goal yeay woo. But it's not like a back and 0:11:15.794 --> 0:11:18.714 forthy kind of thing. It's more like a notice board. 0:11:18.754 --> 0:11:21.354 But I think it's the one who's away, which is 0:11:21.514 --> 0:11:25.594 you has to take ownership of the group, and you're 0:11:25.634 --> 0:11:26.034 not doing that. 0:11:26.234 --> 0:11:29.274 I think the problem with family group chat dynamics for 0:11:29.834 --> 0:11:34.514 most people is that different generations don't understand group chat dynamics. 0:11:34.554 --> 0:11:37.194 So if I just went in there with like lolls 0:11:37.274 --> 0:11:39.754 like watching this show or taking the piss out of 0:11:39.794 --> 0:11:42.914 something or posting memes, my mom and dad would be 0:11:43.034 --> 0:11:46.554 so confused. They always feel like they have to respond 0:11:46.554 --> 0:11:48.954 to everything you post. They would then have to go 0:11:48.994 --> 0:11:50.874 down a rabbit hole to try and understand what I'm 0:11:50.914 --> 0:11:53.114 talking about. Like they're smart people, don't get me wrong, 0:11:53.114 --> 0:11:55.674 but they're not. We don't live in the same realities, 0:11:55.714 --> 0:11:59.194 you know what I mean, So it wouldn't work. But 0:11:59.394 --> 0:12:02.074 then and then I have a family group chat with 0:12:02.154 --> 0:12:04.833 my literal family who live in my house that the 0:12:04.914 --> 0:12:09.194 children refuse to participate. And they're only bloody fourteen and 0:12:09.274 --> 0:12:12.634 six thirteen and sixteen, and they're like, nah, this is lame, 0:12:12.794 --> 0:12:15.234 thet it. They don't do WhatsApp. They don't like it. 0:12:15.594 --> 0:12:16.074 I don't know. 0:12:16.194 --> 0:12:18.914 But why are you doing WhatsApp with your kids because 0:12:18.954 --> 0:12:20.474 it's where the group chat lives. 0:12:20.794 --> 0:12:28.874 Oh no, no, no, that's your first mistake. Can I 0:12:28.914 --> 0:12:30.634 definitely do that? 0:12:30.674 --> 0:12:33.714 But like so, group chat isn't a big language in 0:12:33.754 --> 0:12:35.994 my world in the same way. And even my friend 0:12:35.994 --> 0:12:37.794 group chats and me I would always call me out 0:12:37.834 --> 0:12:40.994 about this. I'm not very I don't like No, you know, 0:12:41.154 --> 0:12:43.794 I don't really like it. Like I It's not my 0:12:43.954 --> 0:12:46.714 preferred form of communication. So are you a lurker? 0:12:47.554 --> 0:12:48.594 I don't even think you work. 0:12:48.714 --> 0:12:51.994 I hardly look. Oh, like, where are your group chats? 0:12:52.114 --> 0:12:55.914 The group chat is on I message? Oh so just 0:12:55.954 --> 0:12:58.394 like a text yes, so if you have Android people 0:12:58.394 --> 0:12:59.474 in your family, they're not in. 0:12:59.434 --> 0:13:01.994 The group chat. They don't need it. No therefore, Oh 0:13:02.034 --> 0:13:04.274 but it's it just the usability. Yeah, No, I don't 0:13:04.354 --> 0:13:04.674 like that. 0:13:04.674 --> 0:13:06.834 That stresses me because I'm doing a text message I 0:13:06.874 --> 0:13:09.554 do like a Facebook message. That's the only good thing 0:13:09.594 --> 0:13:13.794 about Facebook is messenger, Instagram messages, Instagram dms, and you 0:13:13.834 --> 0:13:16.314 can also do like you can hide them so like 0:13:16.394 --> 0:13:16.834 they can. 0:13:16.674 --> 0:13:20.474 Disappear and understand how complicated that is for a boomer. 0:13:20.554 --> 0:13:23.994 And I love. Something I love is giving a group 0:13:24.074 --> 0:13:27.474 chat a name, like like I really enjoy that and 0:13:27.514 --> 0:13:29.354 how it evolves over time and then you look at 0:13:29.394 --> 0:13:33.234 it and you're like, where on earth did that name 0:13:33.314 --> 0:13:33.874 come from? 0:13:34.074 --> 0:13:35.794 But it's but it's a vibe. 0:13:35.594 --> 0:13:38.994 Yeah, Holly, yeah, your contribution to group I'm not. 0:13:39.114 --> 0:13:43.034 I'm not really a big group chat. Lots of people aren't. 0:13:43.114 --> 0:13:45.314 And that was what came up in this thread, right, 0:13:45.354 --> 0:13:47.834 It's like some people love a group chat. It's also 0:13:47.994 --> 0:13:50.514 very convenient for a way to communicate with your family, 0:13:50.554 --> 0:13:53.994 but like, not everybody just loves the vibe of it 0:13:54.154 --> 0:13:56.874 or gets into the sort of competitive nature of like 0:13:56.994 --> 0:14:00.074 who can find the best things for it? And then 0:14:00.114 --> 0:14:02.954 that leads to the question of how you do keep 0:14:02.994 --> 0:14:05.674 everybody together? Because what you've got a lot of in 0:14:05.714 --> 0:14:07.634 this thread, and it's also in the show that I 0:14:07.634 --> 0:14:11.394 recommended Women, which is about midlife women, there's a lot 0:14:11.394 --> 0:14:15.794 of sort of sadness about how communication with your adult 0:14:15.914 --> 0:14:19.394 kids can just fade, and it really can. Like you 0:14:19.474 --> 0:14:22.314 two are both from very close families, so you probably 0:14:22.354 --> 0:14:25.434 can't even imagine it. But there are plenty of women 0:14:25.754 --> 0:14:28.274 in particular who are like, my son hasn't called me 0:14:28.314 --> 0:14:30.714 for three weeks, you know, like, oh, hasn't texted, or 0:14:30.754 --> 0:14:32.434 I don't know what's going on. I don't really have 0:14:32.514 --> 0:14:36.754 any insight into their world. And this isn't the case 0:14:36.794 --> 0:14:39.514 for this woman who wrote this message, but I understand 0:14:39.514 --> 0:14:42.674 the impetus of like trying to make it happen. So 0:14:42.754 --> 0:14:45.074 what she's trying to do, and there are lots of 0:14:45.074 --> 0:14:47.514 other good ideas in this thread, is like, if I 0:14:47.714 --> 0:14:51.274 create like a structure, which is every Sunday, we all 0:14:51.314 --> 0:14:53.194 have to jump in in the same way that literally, 0:14:53.234 --> 0:14:55.714 since I left home when I was nineteen, me and 0:14:55.874 --> 0:14:58.314 I call my mum every Sunday night, Like wherever I'm 0:14:58.314 --> 0:15:00.474 in the world, we have a once weekly call, which 0:15:00.514 --> 0:15:03.594 now just seems so obviously we text and stuff in 0:15:03.594 --> 0:15:06.674 between that. But she's trying to create that but in 0:15:06.714 --> 0:15:09.874 a group chat environment. But it also kind of fundamentally 0:15:09.914 --> 0:15:13.434 misunderstands the energy of a group chat, right, which is 0:15:13.474 --> 0:15:14.194 more chaotic. 0:15:14.434 --> 0:15:17.954 Yes, And I think you're right. Some people are group 0:15:18.074 --> 0:15:22.394 chat people and some people aren't. And it's not necessarily 0:15:22.434 --> 0:15:26.354 a sign of how invested someone is in maintaining a relationship, 0:15:26.434 --> 0:15:28.954 like whether or not they're up to date with that. 0:15:28.994 --> 0:15:33.074 There are other ways to go about maintaining those relationships. 0:15:33.514 --> 0:15:36.234 As I said, my my husband's family's. 0:15:35.874 --> 0:15:38.714 Group chat is a miserable place to be. It's just 0:15:38.914 --> 0:15:39.754 nothing happening. 0:15:40.114 --> 0:15:43.994 But it is interesting that as an adult you realize 0:15:43.994 --> 0:15:48.314 that you have to put the same effort into maintaining 0:15:48.354 --> 0:15:51.754 your connections with your siblings and with your parents as 0:15:51.794 --> 0:15:53.274 you do any other social career. 0:15:53.314 --> 0:15:53.714 It's true. 0:15:53.914 --> 0:15:59.274 So Rory's thing is we need to plan regular like 0:15:59.274 --> 0:16:02.794 like once a year we go away together. And the 0:16:02.874 --> 0:16:05.674 thing is that you find as you get older is 0:16:06.794 --> 0:16:09.714 you can so easily not do that. But when somebody 0:16:09.754 --> 0:16:11.914 does it, when somebody just does the initiative and plans it, 0:16:12.034 --> 0:16:15.074 everybody comes, it's bloody amazing. So there are different ways 0:16:15.074 --> 0:16:17.394 of doing it. The other thing I wanted to bring 0:16:17.434 --> 0:16:19.514 to this conversation that I think will really piss. 0:16:19.314 --> 0:16:21.834 Off probably be could I just add one thing? Yeah, 0:16:22.074 --> 0:16:25.234 the most active person in our family group chat is 0:16:25.274 --> 0:16:29.274 my niece, Lyla, who's twenty one, oldest daughter. It's an 0:16:29.314 --> 0:16:32.314 oldest daughter thing, oldest daughter, and she's great and she's 0:16:32.354 --> 0:16:34.754 always posting in there. But then this is an example 0:16:34.794 --> 0:16:36.674 of why you can't have the kurda keategy. She was 0:16:36.714 --> 0:16:40.194 at the brit Awards. It was in Manchester and she's 0:16:40.194 --> 0:16:42.274 at UNI doing events planning, so some of them got 0:16:42.274 --> 0:16:45.314 to go. She's this for from Harry starts doing his 0:16:45.434 --> 0:16:48.394 dance and she knew that would really excite me, So 0:16:48.514 --> 0:16:50.754 of course she puts straight in the group chat like 0:16:50.834 --> 0:16:53.914 a little video of do you think my mom knew 0:16:53.954 --> 0:16:54.474 who that was? 0:16:54.794 --> 0:16:55.154 That was? 0:16:55.354 --> 0:16:59.714 So then we've got fourteen like where's Lila? 0:16:59.834 --> 0:17:03.034 Who's that persona? 0:17:04.954 --> 0:17:06.833 I'm going to google him? Oh he seems like a 0:17:06.914 --> 0:17:07.354 nice guy. 0:17:07.394 --> 0:17:08.234 What do you think of the top? 0:17:08.394 --> 0:17:10.434 I'm like, this isn't just my mom, who's amazing. But 0:17:10.474 --> 0:17:13.114 it's like, that's not what group chats are now. It's 0:17:13.114 --> 0:17:15.554 supposed to just be like, oh I can't believe you're there, 0:17:15.594 --> 0:17:18.194 you know, or whatever, or like is he in a 0:17:18.274 --> 0:17:19.794 stupid little smile or whatever? 0:17:19.954 --> 0:17:21.634 Yeah, but you know what I mean. If you're not 0:17:21.674 --> 0:17:23.474 in the vibe, it doesn't work anyway. 0:17:23.514 --> 0:17:27.514 Sorry, you're derailing the conversation. So this is what will 0:17:27.514 --> 0:17:31.474 piss you off. I came across this excellent article in 0:17:31.874 --> 0:17:35.474 its publication called Expert Editor. Anyway, I hadn't seen it before, 0:17:35.474 --> 0:17:37.674 but it was a really good article, and the headline was, 0:17:38.274 --> 0:17:40.994 and I'm not saying that this is the experience of 0:17:41.034 --> 0:17:43.874 our out louder who's asking for advice, but it really 0:17:43.914 --> 0:17:46.554 got me thinking that the headline was, I worked fifty 0:17:46.594 --> 0:17:48.914 hour weeks for thirty five years so my kids could 0:17:48.954 --> 0:17:51.194 have a better life. Now they live in different cities, 0:17:51.194 --> 0:17:55.394 and I eate dinner alone. And it was about there's 0:17:55.434 --> 0:17:58.874 this great quote that said true that said, I know, 0:17:59.194 --> 0:18:01.834 that said have you ever noticed how we measure success 0:18:01.914 --> 0:18:04.394 in distance? How far we've come from where we started, 0:18:04.594 --> 0:18:07.834 how far our kids fixated, our achievements. Maybe the real 0:18:07.874 --> 0:18:10.354 measure should be proximity. How close we stayed to the 0:18:10.394 --> 0:18:12.634 people who mattered. Oh, how present we were in the 0:18:12.674 --> 0:18:17.513 moments that shaped them. And this guy, this dad, was 0:18:17.554 --> 0:18:20.474 basically saying, we text regularly with video call on birthdays, 0:18:20.514 --> 0:18:22.513 we meet up for holidays when our schedules a line, 0:18:22.714 --> 0:18:25.194 but the daily rhythm of family life. I was working 0:18:25.234 --> 0:18:28.354 toward that disappeared while I was busy working. I mean 0:18:28.394 --> 0:18:33.674 firstly that like you know that I could for a week. Yeah, 0:18:33.754 --> 0:18:36.914 that hit me because I was like spending all my 0:18:37.034 --> 0:18:39.274 time at home, which is not the point. But here's 0:18:39.314 --> 0:18:39.634 the thing. 0:18:39.794 --> 0:18:41.994 This is the tricky thing about that, right, because you're 0:18:42.074 --> 0:18:44.554 of course he's right, like if your family don't live 0:18:44.594 --> 0:18:46.834 near you, and if you're not particularly close and or 0:18:46.914 --> 0:18:49.634 I mean and when I say close, I mean physics close. 0:18:50.114 --> 0:18:53.874 But also you know, then the reality is you will 0:18:53.874 --> 0:18:56.194 have kids, they will grow up, they will move away, 0:18:56.274 --> 0:18:58.714 and you won't be spending every day with them. And 0:18:58.794 --> 0:19:01.874 is that a failure? Like I think that is a 0:19:02.354 --> 0:19:05.234 that's sort of like a cultural perspective about whether or 0:19:05.314 --> 0:19:08.434 not that's a failure because what I take from that, 0:19:09.314 --> 0:19:12.553 and obviously this is partly my own life experience, but 0:19:12.674 --> 0:19:16.754 also is that as a parent, I think you cannot 0:19:17.274 --> 0:19:19.954 hank put every egg in your kids basket. You know 0:19:19.994 --> 0:19:23.474 what I mean, Like the people who really struggle when 0:19:23.514 --> 0:19:26.594 their kids move away and or they've retired or whatever 0:19:26.594 --> 0:19:29.313