WEBVTT - Everyone's Talking About Rosie O'Donnell. This Conversation That Explains Why 0:00:00.880 --> 0:00:05.559 Hi, it's kateline Brook here. Before we get into today's episode, 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:09.880 I wanted to quickly tell you why we're revisiting this conversation. 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:13.520 If you've been following entertainment news over the past few weeks, 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:17.439 you'll know Rosie O'Donnell is everywhere. She's back in the 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:21.840 spotlight with her deeply personal new one woman show Common Knowledge, 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:26.480 which has critics raving and also punters like me. She's 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:31.160 been opening up in a series of major interviews about grief, motherhood, 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:35.600 her move to Ireland, her candid and transparent approach to 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:40.519 discussing her recent cosmetic work, her decades long friendship with Madonna, 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:44.840 and yes, the public feud with Donald Trump that's found 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:49.080 its way back into the headlines. It's reminded me just 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:53.239 how fascinating Rosy O'Donnell is. For decades. She's been one 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:57.760 of those rare people who's constantly evolving, constantly surprising us. 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:00.440 She's never afraid to tell the truth about her life, 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:04.240 even when it's missy or uncomfortable. So it felt like 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:07.880 the perfect time to bring back this conversation, whether you're 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:10.399 hearing it for the first time or listening again. With 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:13.480 everything that's happening now. I think you'll hear ROSI a 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:16.479 little differently. This is Rosy o'donald. 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:20.120 I would have apologized. I would have said, I'm really 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:23.600 sorry I heard you that much, and I hope you 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:26.200 can forgive me. That's what I would have done. But 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:29.399 I think in her mind she thinks I keep rehashing 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:33.240 it for pleasure. I don't rehash it for pleasure. I 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:36.680 rehash it because our careers have taken sort of parallel, 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:43.959 interwoven paths. Yes, and where gay talk show hosts, and 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:46.839 we're around the same age, so people would always ask 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:49.240 me about it, and I have a hard time not 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:50.160 telling the truth. 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:55.600 Hello, and welcome to No Filter. I'm Kateline Rook, and today, 0:01:56.080 --> 0:02:00.600 what a magnificent day. We're talking to Rosie o'donnald, a 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:05.480 woman whose name is synonymous with laughter, honesty, and a 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:10.639 fearless speaking of her mind. From a childhood marred by 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:15.440 tragedy to breaking records on her groundbreaking talk show, to 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:19.000 acting alongside legends like Madonna and Tom Hanks in films 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:22.120 like Sleepless in Seattle a league of their own, and 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:25.760 now and then, Rosie has lived a life in the 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:29.960 public eye that few could imagine. Along the way she's 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:35.240 been celebrated, she's been ridiculed and sometimes made the punchline 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:39.320 of her own story. She's had some famously public feuds, 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:43.360 and yes, we talk about her recent appearance in and 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:47.600 Just like That, Who can Forget It? In this episode, 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:51.720 Rosie opens up about her childhood marked by loss and trauma, 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:57.200 the lessons she's carried through decades in showbiz, her experiences 0:02:57.280 --> 0:02:59.920 as a mother of five, and the moments that have 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:04.680 shaped her into the activist, performer and person she is today. 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:08.639 Here is Rosie O'Donnell. And by the way, she took 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:11.840 me by surprise by showing up early. Who does that? 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:15.840 Nobody's ever early? 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:20.440 I'm always early, are you? Yes? Always? 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:24.400 All right? Well, I've got to ask permission, miss Miss? 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:26.079 Can I go to the dunny? Miss? 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:28.440 What does that mean? I don't even know what that means. 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:32.240 The dunny is Australian slang and it's the toilet. 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:35.240 Oh yeah, go to the danny by all means. 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:37.760 The dunny, the dunny. You need to learn this before 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:38.960 you arrive in Australia. 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:41.600 Not that you're not kidding people. There's so many things 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:42.360 I have to learn. 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:43.840 What else do you think. 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:47.920 Well, you know, first of all, I'm terrified of customs 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:51.080 because they watch nothing to declare. Oh yeah, and you 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:58.080 know whatever somebody has, like a plumb or a border 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:04.160 security from Yeah, that show is terrifies me. And I'm 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:05.720 also afraid of the spaders. 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:07.240 Oh yeah, okay. 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:09.920 And I also like how everyone says yes. 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:17.040 No, yes, no, that's really probably our defining national trade. 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:19.200 Yeah. Where does it come from? Yes? 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:22.560 No, it just kind of it just kind of developed, 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:25.920 I think. I mean, I think it's one of those 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:29.119 things that you know, I'm giving up on the dunny 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:31.800 by the way, because I'm so happy to have you here. 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:34.880 Well, if you gotta go, you gotta go. 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:37.960 I I was just it was a you know, I 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:43.000 was it was a preparatory we It wasn't just in key. Yeah, 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:46.360 it wasn't an essential one. It was just like, well, 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:49.440 you and I are about to embark on a road 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:53.560 trip together of discovery, and I didn't want. 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:55.640 To be I didn't want to have to start. 0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:59.240 No, that's right, and I don't want to be disrespectful 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:00.000 to you. 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:04.880 Well, I would understand being a woman as sixty three 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:07.520 years old. If you gotta go, you gotta go. 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:10.760 You know, And I think that's true at any age, 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:14.600 to be honest. You know, remember as were when you're older, 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:17.960 you know, as a kid, that thing where you'd stand 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:21.080 with your legs twisted together because you just didn't want 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:23.640 to go? What is that? Why do you hate going 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:24.839 to the toilet when you're little? 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:27.680 Well, do you want to know this? I never pee 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:28.320 in public? 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:30.719 Oh well I would hope not. 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:35.800 No, I mean, like in a bathroom in public. I 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:38.640 never like, if I'm on this, oh, like that I'm 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:41.159 going to take that's twenty two hours, I probably will 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:42.320 not pee the whole time. 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:47.680 What do you do? Is it a psychological thing that you. 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:50.520 Just I think it is. It's not like I'm telling 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:53.760 myself not to It's almost like when I leave the house, 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:56.040 my body goes yeah no, yeah, no. 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:57.240 Yeah, no, that's it. 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:02.039 Yeah, I know exactly. I think that. I was a 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:05.680 little kid and my mom used to get very nervous 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:08.760 in public bathrooms and she would put the little toilet 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:12.039 paper like you know, and then put the little seat thing, 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:16.160 that little paper, yeah, and try to make us like hover. 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:20.640 Yeah, hovering when you're a kid not easy at any age. 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:22.880 I can't hop it now. I don't have the I 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:26.080 don't have the thyme muscles. Not a hover, No, nor 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:29.480 do I get that right now, I'm more of a collapse. 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:33.160 Yeah, that's what I am too. I'll just collapse right 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:36.440 on it. But now it's like I never My friends 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:39.159 call me the camel because I just never will go 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:41.039 to the bathroom in public. 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:45.599 Okay, do you think that this is a psychological thing? 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:47.400 Yes? 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:52.200 And what do you think it's It stems from. 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:56.800 It stems from my mother making me afraid to go 0:06:56.880 --> 0:07:00.400 to the bathroom in public. She had five kids, we 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:04.480 were all on one year apart, not even ten months, 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:10.080 Irish twins, and she would just get very overwhelmed when 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:12.000 we would go to the bathroom and she would put 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:14.920 down all this toilet paper and everything. And so I 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:17.800 got it in my head that it's a very trying 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:20.640 thing to do. And like even the whole time I 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:23.360 was at school, I never went to the bathroom. I 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:26.040 would go in the morning. I would when I do 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:29.480 a movie. If I don't have my own bathroom in 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:33.240 my trailer, I will wait the whole day. And it's 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:35.480 not like I feel like I have to go. It's 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:37.880 not like I'm holding it in it's almost like my 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:39.760 body goes, Nope, don't do it. 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:44.840 You know, it's interesting because you lost your mom young, 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:51.840 when you thread the pieces of her together, because I 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:54.840 think always as a child, you're always trying to work 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:58.160 out the tapestry of yourself, and often that comes from 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:04.160 your parents. Do you yes, when you have reminiscences like 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:09.360 that of her, how much of a complete picture do 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:11.400 you have? Do you think in her absence? 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:17.040 Really not a very good one. I was ten and 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:21.920 I have a child's image of her still, like I 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:24.240 don't know her as a woman. I never got to 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:27.040 see her age. I never got to see her go 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:31.440 through menopause, have children's your children have become a grandparent. 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:34.280 I never got to do that. So I have like 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:39.880 a very idealized childlike view of my mother, and I've 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:43.280 spent a lot of time trying to get to know 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:46.840 her as an adult. She was an only child, and 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:52.040 when she died we never mentioned her again, Like her 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:54.840 name was never spoken. Nobody said the word mommy in 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:58.800 the house. Nobody, you know. We came over to Ireland 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:03.120 after she died. My father took five kids who were 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:07.320 grieving to the north of Iren, not quite northern Ireland, 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:12.160 but like Dunney Gall and we never mentioned her again. 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:15.280 And when we came home from Ireland after the summer, 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:18.200 all of her stuff was taken out of the house, 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:23.199 so it was like she disappeared. Now at that time, who. 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:27.559 Had done that? Rosie? Was that like Auntie Neighbors? Yes, 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:33.800 and your father's behaestore, yes, exactly. He was not someone 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:38.960 to share with you kids, your mom. 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:43.760 No, there was no Oprah Winfrey show to learn about grieving, 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:48.120 you know, there was no nobody talking about the trauma 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:51.680 that that puts kids through. Right, it happened. And then 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:55.600 we went to church one one, you know, a month 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:57.920 after she died. And you know how in church they 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:02.280 say and the parishioners who have gone to their rest, 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:05.400 and then they would say the name, and they said, 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:09.040 my mother's name is my name Roseanne O'Donnell. And my 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:12.840 brothers started crying, and my father got up and took 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:14.600 us out of the church. And we never went back 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:16.720 to church. And my mother was the head of the 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:21.360 parish council. She was very into Catholicism, so we were 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:28.079 sort of robbed of every memory and smell and photo 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:30.520 and instance of her. I only have like that's one 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:33.240 photo right there of her, but I only have about 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:37.280 three photos of her, you know, And it's taken me 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:39.440 a long time. This show that I'm doing when I 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:43.199 come to Australia has a lot to do with my mom. 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:46.440 It starts and ends with her, the whole show, and 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:48.880 it's sort of, you know, me coming to terms with 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:54.160 being a motherless child and then becoming the mother. And 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:58.880 how do you learn to do that? What guideposts do 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:03.040 you follow? What what lanterns are lit in the caverns 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:06.000 of your soul, you know, to get you through when 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:07.800 you haven't had that or seen that. 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:13.320 So you were very young, Yeah, you were eleven, nearly eleven. 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:16.400 Yeah, it was right before my eleventh birthday. So she 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:19.640 died on Saint Patrick's Day and four days later I 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:20.440 turned eleven. 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:23.800 How was that birthday horrible? 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:28.160 Because the funeral was on my birthday and everyone who 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:32.720 came to that afterwards had gifts for me. So here 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:37.720 I was grieving my mother and being given presents and 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:41.360 it just felt so wrong, you know. And my little 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:44.959 brother Timmy is one day before me, so he and I. 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:47.840 His birthday was on the wake and my birthday was 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:53.200 on the funeral, and we were besieged with gifts that year, 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:58.040 and both of us never really have loved our birthdays since. 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:01.480 You know, It's funny because of course people want to 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:05.680 show and would have wanted to show you their love 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:11.280 and to show you how they were feeling. And it's interesting, 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:14.120 isn't it that we tend to want to do that 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:20.120 with things, But things given in the face of like 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:25.599 such a devastating emotional catastrophe actually become. 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:30.319 Tainted, totally empty. There was no you know. I remember 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:34.360 my brother Timmy got the gunfire at the OK Corral, 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:36.840 which was a toy that we had both really wanted 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:39.280 where you had like a gun like and you had 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:42.679 to shoot it was in plastic shoot like at a carnival, 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:46.720 like knock down the picture of right. And I remember 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:48.600 he got it and we both looked at it and 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:50.800 looked at each other, and we never really played with it, 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:54.680 even though that was the toy that we wanted, you know. 0:12:56.240 --> 0:13:00.960 So it was very difficult to to grow up in 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:03.880 a place where you suffer a loss and then you're 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:07.160 not allowed to discuss it with anyone. You weren't even 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:10.480 allowed to say the word mom. So when I would 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:12.559 get on the phone and somebody would call and say, 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:15.760 it's your mother home. I'd say, no, she's out. I 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:18.920 couldn't tell anyone until I was in college that my 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:19.800 mother had died. 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:26.040 And what was the atmosphere with your dad in the 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:29.240 house where your mother is gone. 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:32.880 Well, you know, he comes from a traditional Irish Catholic 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:36.800 family where emotions are not encouraged or displayed, you know, 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:39.880 where drinking is the way you get through things, where 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:48.240 talking and emoting were not his forte. So he was 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:52.840 very kind of overwhelmed and didn't know what to do 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:57.400 with these five small children that I remember when he 0:13:57.520 --> 0:14:03.000 told us that she died. My little brother Timmy said, 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:06.400 who was only five, said who's going to take care 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:09.080 of us now? And I said daddy, And he said, 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:14.600 who's that? Who's that at five years old? Because my 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:17.559 mother was the one who took care of us and 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:20.520 my father was at work. You know, back in the 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:23.840 early seventies, you know, men put on a suit and 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:26.880 went to work and didn't like their life and came 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:29.080 home and often had a couple of drinks and didn't 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:31.960 interact with their kids very much, and all of a sudden, 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:35.520 it was just him, and it. 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:39.440 Was tough who stepped up into the role. 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:45.000 Did anybody, Yes, the neighbors. So there was my mother's 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:49.960 best friend across the street, Leone, and she became the 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:53.880 mother and our family. Although for me, I went across 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:57.000 the street diagonal to Jackie, who was my best friend 0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:00.440 since I'm three. Yes, when I was three, knocked on 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:02.840 her door and I said to the mother, do you 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:06.120 have anyone here who's three? And she said yes, and 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:09.240 we've been best friends ever since. And that woman who's 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:13.800 still alive, she's ninety years old. She took me in 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:17.520 and got me my first bra and sanitary napkins and 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:20.640 all the things that a kid needed who didn't have 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:24.040 a mother, and she filled in. And then there were 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:27.200 teachers at school who did that. You know, I was 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:32.640 a kid who was longing for motherly connection. So all 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:35.560 my friends' mothers, my friends would get mad at me. 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:39.040 We were teenagers, and I would always like suck up 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:42.080 to the mom's and they were having that normal reaction 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:46.200 of pushing away from your parent when you're a teenager. 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:50.080 But I never never lived through that, nor did I 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:52.080 want to do it, nor was I prepared when my 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:53.440 own children went through that. 0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:55.680 Yes, because you'd not experienced it. 0:15:56.320 --> 0:16:00.720 No, And because I couldn't imagine not wanting your other around, 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:03.040 because that was the biggest need that I had in 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:06.200 my life, was wanting a mother. There do you. 0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:12.440 Think you're because running parallel with your life so many 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:17.520 so many professional achievements, but with you there's been a 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:23.720 very strong current of family. Do you think that's where 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:27.680 that desire came from to forge your own family? 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:32.960 One hundred percent? And you know, my friends always were 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:38.440 concerned and curious and questioning about whether they wanted to 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:41.320 be a parent. But I knew it right from the beginning. 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:43.080 I knew that I would have a lot of kids. 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:45.680 When I figured out that I was gay, I knew 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:48.200 that I would adopt a lot of kids. It was 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:52.960 never a barrier to me wanting to get my goal, 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:56.160 which is to have a family and make the family 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:59.680 the center of my life. Now you know, I'm the 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:01.480 next show that I'm doing is going to be called 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:06.800 bad parenting because I parented my children with the idea 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:10.040 that a ten or eleven year old would have about 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:14.520 what made a perfect mom. It wasn't an adult understanding 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:19.360 of parenting. It was a child's need. And so I'm 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:22.439 going to do a show that that's basically about what 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:27.119 I learned at sixty three, what I have accumulated, the 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:31.760 knowledge of what I did wrong, you know, and why 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:35.399 I made those sort of errors that you know, every person, 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:40.800 every parent feels that. I believe. But when you were 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:43.359 missing a mother and wanted nothing but to be the 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:47.159 perfect mother, you're pretty harsh on yourself for the ways 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:48.399 that you didn't succeed. 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:53.320 When you say a parenting, like an eleven year old 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:57.760 would say, an ideal parent is that like lots of snacks, 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:01.920 being overly like, not disciple planning, how does that benefit? 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:08.000 Yet not disciplining, not forcing them to follow through. So 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:10.960 if they signed up for gymnastics and they didn't want 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:12.880 to go, I would say, you don't have to go, 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:17.320 and my partner would say, well, that's ridiculous, they have 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:19.480 to go. I'm like, why do they have to go? Like, 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:22.560 I didn't want them to feel pain, and I tried 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:26.000 to avoid it at all costs, and I smoothed the 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:28.720 road in front of them too much so that the 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:32.840 tiniest bump in adulthood became a big trauma for them. 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:37.840 They weren't used to being a survivor because I made 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:43.160 it too easy, And with my older two it's much 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:45.480 more pronounced because I was at the height of my 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:50.960 fame and uh easy they you know. Yeah. And when 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:54.840 you're when you're famous and you take four little kids, 0:18:55.240 --> 0:18:57.840 you know, stair step to the mall and they're all 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:01.560 under six, everyone'st you and says, oh my god, those 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:05.040 kids are so gorgeous. But when you're famous and they 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:09.000 ignore the kids, everyone comes to you, and that does 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:12.240 something because kids need to be sort of the center 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:14.639 of the world when they're that age, and when you 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:19.200 have a famous parent, you're definitely not and it affects them, 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:21.720 I think in later life. And my older too much 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:24.080 more than the younger two. And then I have the 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:29.120 little one, you know, who's twelve. Yes that's ten yeah, 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:33.639 ten years younger, yes, exactly ten years younger than my 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:35.080 former youngest. 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:40.639 But you know, the parenting mistakes which I think often 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:45.040 we recognize in retrospect. I have four children and I'm 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:47.360 kind of in the sick of it still. It's one 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:49.120 of those things where you think it's going to abate. 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:51.760 It just it seems it doesn't. 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:53.160 It just goes on and on. 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:58.000 Well, I never knew that children would need their parents 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:03.080 past teenage teenager. So when my like thirty year old 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:07.080 son calls me and needs me as much as he 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:11.280 did when he was seven, I'm stunned because I didn't 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:14.320 have that. So I just sort of took care of 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:18.920 myself and we were all, you know, very resilient and 0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:24.879 very able to tackle obstacles because there were so many. 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:29.360 But when my kids now maybe have a little bit 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:34.120 of a failure to launch or you know, the older two, 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:37.800 especially when they have challenges in their life, I think 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:41.359 this is all on me, you know, not so much 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:44.240 with the two ones who are just a little bit younger, 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:46.160 but weren't in the height of my fame. 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:50.320 So you're talking about Parker and Chelsea, the two eldest. 0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:55.639 Yeah, yes, they're like thirty and twenty eight, and the 0:20:55.680 --> 0:20:58.919 two of them have struggled, I think more than the 0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:02.600 two younger ones. And it's almost like I was a 0:21:02.600 --> 0:21:05.600 different parent. I had left my show when Blake was 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:10.680 a baby. I had viv after I was on TV, 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:15.199 and it was a different reality for them than it 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:16.399 was for the older kids. 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:21.280 Well, every child has a different experience of being their parents' child. 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:26.040 Yes, there's some Naterighaisy you know that comic. He's very 0:21:26.119 --> 0:21:29.120 very you know, and he does a great funny bit. 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:32.480 I'm not going to paraphrase it, but something like apparently 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:39.080 my younger brothers were raised by their best friends. And 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:42.439 I thought that is so funny because I understand that. 0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:45.960 I get that, you know how you're you're raised with 0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:51.000 different parents and their different levels of growth and maturity. 0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:55.040 And you know, when my first kid was born, I 0:21:55.160 --> 0:22:01.520 was afraid, I was nervous, I was worried, I was anxious. 0:22:02.200 --> 0:22:05.320 And by the fourth kid, you're not you know, it's 0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:08.480 not you or an old hand at it. And I 0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:12.520 think you can definitely tell that they had different parents. 0:22:12.760 --> 0:22:15.679 Well, we say, in our family, our youngest learned to 0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:19.800 eat by picking up the crumbs the others dropped. Yes, 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:23.560 very resilient and they kind of have to be because 0:22:23.840 --> 0:22:28.800 you're outnumbered. You were very outnumbered. Yes, When you were 0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:34.840 talking about your upbringing and your quest to find someone 0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:38.639 to feel that your mother shaped hole in your life 0:22:40.520 --> 0:22:45.879 because you also were gay, At what point did you 0:22:46.400 --> 0:22:51.399 realize did you always know and who was the person 0:22:51.440 --> 0:22:55.080 that you could go to to share that with, if anyone? 0:22:55.680 --> 0:22:58.480 Well, I think my mother knew, you know, because I 0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:01.560 would never wear a dress, I would, you know. And 0:23:01.600 --> 0:23:03.840 I had a sister who's one year younger than me, 0:23:04.440 --> 0:23:07.240 had the same exact upbringing, and she's straight as can be, 0:23:08.080 --> 0:23:11.040 and she had a mother die when she was nine, 0:23:11.560 --> 0:23:16.160 you know, and I was almost eleven, so not that different. 0:23:17.200 --> 0:23:19.720 But my older brother, one year older than me, is 0:23:19.760 --> 0:23:23.320 also gay, and I think my mother knew that both 0:23:23.359 --> 0:23:26.480 of us were gay and different. And when I wanted 0:23:26.520 --> 0:23:29.000 to play the drums and she was in the hospital 0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:32.520 fifth grade, I needed a permission slip, and she didn't 0:23:32.520 --> 0:23:35.400 want me to because she didn't think girls should play drums, 0:23:35.880 --> 0:23:37.600 and that a lot of things that I liked to 0:23:37.640 --> 0:23:40.960 do were boy things like play sports and ride a 0:23:41.000 --> 0:23:45.320 skateboard and learn to juggle and balance things on my hand, 0:23:45.400 --> 0:23:49.160 like I did what were traditionally at the time more 0:23:49.520 --> 0:23:53.280 boyish things. And I think it worried her. I think 0:23:53.280 --> 0:23:56.440 it concerned her. But then she was gone, and I 0:23:56.880 --> 0:24:01.159 kind of always knew, like I was never in in 0:24:01.240 --> 0:24:04.560 any way in finding out anything about the boys in 0:24:04.600 --> 0:24:08.440 my class, but the girls, I totally wanted to know 0:24:08.840 --> 0:24:12.480 all their secrets, all their stories. I wanted to meet 0:24:12.560 --> 0:24:15.680 their parents. I wanted to, you know, and without even 0:24:15.720 --> 0:24:18.280 really knowing that that meant that I was gay. My 0:24:18.440 --> 0:24:23.200 focus and my interest was always female, and I knew 0:24:23.200 --> 0:24:26.280 that from a very young age. And when I got 0:24:26.320 --> 0:24:29.120 to be of the age where you had to start 0:24:29.200 --> 0:24:31.439 kissing boys, I knew I didn't want to do that. 0:24:32.200 --> 0:24:34.800 I knew that if I was going to kiss anyone, 0:24:34.960 --> 0:24:39.440