Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Woolworth's Delivery Unlimited.
Speaker 2: When we tell ourselves that we don't have time for something,
Speaker 2: what we're really saying is it's not important and it's
Speaker 2: not a priority. People with purpose and passion equals profit,
Speaker 2: and if we put our focus in the first three,
Speaker 2: the last one comes.
Speaker 3: So eighty percent of my life has to be in
Speaker 3: balance because.
Speaker 2: That brings calmness and organization and structure and all those
Speaker 2: things that I like. But twenty percent needs to be
Speaker 2: chaotic because that brings risk and innovation and fun and excitement.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the sees the Yay Podcast. Busy and happy
Speaker 1: are not the same thing. We too rarely question what
Speaker 1: makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but
Speaker 1: rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than
Speaker 1: one way. So this is a platform to hear and
Speaker 1: explore the stories of those who found lives.
Speaker 4: They adore the good, bad and ugly.
Speaker 1: The best and worst days will bear all the facets
Speaker 1: of seizing your yay. I'm Sarah Davidson or Spoonful of Sarah.
Speaker 1: I turned punentrepreneurs, wapped the suits and heels to co
Speaker 1: found matcha Maiden and matcha Milk Bar CZA is a
Speaker 1: series of conversations on finding a life you love and
Speaker 1: exploring the self doubt, challenge, joy and fulfillment along the way.
Speaker 1: Welcome back, Lovely Yighborhood. I hope you enjoyed our Power
Speaker 1: your Inner Runner podcast miniseries. It was such a pleasure
Speaker 1: to create and I've loved seeing all of your learnings
Speaker 1: and reflections. I did have this second miniseries of the year,
Speaker 1: ready four Years of Our Lives this week, but it's
Speaker 1: been pushed back slightly to align with some official announcements
Speaker 1: relating to the guests, so it's back to your regular
Speaker 1: scheduling for now, but keep your ears peeled. Today's guests
Speaker 1: is one of those people that I feel so lucky
Speaker 1: to be able to share with you, because a one
Speaker 1: on one session with such a trail blazing industry leader
Speaker 1: is so highly coveted, so we're very lucky to have
Speaker 1: her on the show. If you haven't heard of Colin Calendar,
Speaker 1: you've definitely encountered her work through twenty years across iconic
Speaker 1: brands Suzanne and sports Girl, thirteen of which she was
Speaker 1: in the top spot as CEO. You might assume that
Speaker 1: Colleen was a born leader with her sight set on
Speaker 1: something like an MBA to work her way to the top,
Speaker 1: but she is all the more fascinating for not having
Speaker 1: finished school at all and starting as a retail assistant
Speaker 1: on the floor at Just Jeans. I also love how
Speaker 1: she perceives leadership as a lifestyle choice rather than something
Speaker 1: intrinsic that you have to be born with. You don't
Speaker 1: have to be an extrovert or even in a senior
Speaker 1: position to be a leader. You can work hard and
Speaker 1: speak through your results, and she certainly has done so.
Speaker 1: There's also some very useful reflections on burnout leading to
Speaker 1: three months away from work, altogether touching on all our
Speaker 1: favorite themes of unraveling our identity from productivity and achievement,
Speaker 1: and of course then the bold choice to step away
Speaker 1: from the dream job when it starts to become a
Speaker 1: comfort zone, to start a new chapter and restart as
Speaker 1: a beginner. Colleen is such a delight to learn from,
Speaker 1: and I hope you guys get as much out of
Speaker 1: our chat as I did. Colleen, Welcome to Seize the yame.
Speaker 2: Hello Sarah, thank you for having me. It's really wonderful
Speaker 2: to be here with you.
Speaker 4: Oh so lovely to see you. We did an amazing.
Speaker 1: Kids entrepreneurial pitch recently and I feel like I was
Speaker 1: absorbing more advice than the picture.
Speaker 4: It was so lovely to share that with you.
Speaker 3: I don't know about that.
Speaker 2: I think we actually were bouncing off each other and
Speaker 2: learning a lot from each other, which was really nice.
Speaker 3: But it was super fun, right, It was such a
Speaker 3: great thing to do.
Speaker 4: It was so much fun.
Speaker 1: I was trying really hard not to fan girl you
Speaker 1: the whole time. I've been such a close follower of
Speaker 1: your incredible career. So it's a privilege to have you
Speaker 1: here today and I've just poured through for the second
Speaker 1: time your amazing book, Leader by Design. So very very
Speaker 1: excited to pick your brains today and share it with
Speaker 1: the neighborhood.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. There's such kind words. Thank you.
Speaker 1: So we will definitely get into your incredible journey. But
Speaker 1: I like to start with a little icebreaker way asking
Speaker 1: what the most down to earth thing is about you,
Speaker 1: Which is a bit of an odd question, but I
Speaker 1: think in the digital age, we're often introduced to people
Speaker 1: through their titles, and you talk about this a bit
Speaker 1: in the book.
Speaker 4: You know, through the.
Speaker 1: Glossy title or through the highlights of the story that
Speaker 1: get captured by the media. But there's so much in between,
Speaker 1: having kids, you know, trying to run businesses. There's so
Speaker 1: much just normal stuff. And everyone is more relatable, I
Speaker 1: think than you would ever imagine. So what's something really
Speaker 1: normal about you?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would have to agree.
Speaker 2: I think people look at your life and you know,
Speaker 2: they get the one percent on Instagram or you read
Speaker 2: an article and you know, people think is a life
Speaker 2: of a CEO is glitzy and lifestyle and travel.
Speaker 3: And you know there is a little bit of that
Speaker 3: in there.
Speaker 2: But I've got to tell you, I am the happiest
Speaker 2: when I am at home with my family, sitting by
Speaker 2: the fire pit, chatting with my kids, cooking dinner together.
Speaker 2: You know, they're really the moments that I love. That
Speaker 2: that's what makes me really happy. You know, going for
Speaker 2: a walk with my husband. I love gardening. So you know,
Speaker 2: all of that other stuff is really you know I
Speaker 2: talk about the hat we wear, you know, the down
Speaker 2: to earth stuff is what we do every day, the
Speaker 2: stuff that really fills up that tank.
Speaker 3: So for me, I'm a real.
Speaker 2: Sort of homebody, I suppose, and my family is everything.
Speaker 1: Oh I love that so much, and I think it is.
Speaker 1: It's when people, you know, hear that you're a mom,
Speaker 1: or you're a sister, or you're a wife, or you're
Speaker 1: a whatever, and they can relate to you with that
Speaker 1: hat on that. I think that's when your messages and
Speaker 1: learnings cut through more because not everyone can relate to,
Speaker 1: you know, being an incredible CEO for six years at
Speaker 1: Suzanne and seven years at sports Girl, but they can
Speaker 1: relate to being a homebody or liking.
Speaker 4: To walk your dog, you know. I think that's where
Speaker 4: the messages really cut through.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, I agree. I agree.
Speaker 1: So let's trace through what I call your path YEA
Speaker 1: or your way to ya, because again I love to
Speaker 1: go back to even childhood and sort of remind everyone
Speaker 1: that you didn't wake up one day knowing this was
Speaker 1: going to be your journey. That often there are so
Speaker 1: many twists and turns, and many of them that often
Speaker 1: feel backwards or you know, it just seems often like
Speaker 1: people wake up one day with incredible sense of purpose
Speaker 1: and they just are successful. But it's never overnight. So
Speaker 1: take us all the way back to young Colleen, you
Speaker 1: know at Sacred Heart, what your kind of big dreams
Speaker 1: were I know you you know your parents were had
Speaker 1: their own businesses, and I imagine that was a huge
Speaker 1: influence on your journey. And I loved reading that you
Speaker 1: worked at the canteen at the local pool and we're
Speaker 1: on building sites with your dad, Like, tell us about
Speaker 1: what you were like as a kid.
Speaker 2: Look, I think two words that come to mind when
Speaker 2: I think about me as a child.
Speaker 3: I was shy, but I was also really curious.
Speaker 2: And you know, I did have this wonderful upbringing, and
Speaker 2: you know, I grew up in Geelong and willed the
Speaker 2: beach and I loved hanging out with my brother on
Speaker 2: his bike. And you know, but one thing that we
Speaker 2: were surrounded by the whole time through our upbringing was
Speaker 2: this sort of centered around business. You know, my parents
Speaker 2: had their own businesses, and so I spent a lot
Speaker 2: of my childhood listening and learning to my parents and
Speaker 2: watching them work both very very hard. And you know,
Speaker 2: people would turn up at home Sarah for meetings and
Speaker 2: this I was little, as this tiny little blond thing,
Speaker 2: and you know I would.
Speaker 3: Sit there next to my dad.
Speaker 2: I would hope I was invisible, and you know, I
Speaker 2: would just listen in on every detail. I wanted to
Speaker 2: know about money and turnover and rent and investments and
Speaker 2: costs of goods and buying and selling. So I was
Speaker 2: so intrigued all the time. And you know, my father
Speaker 2: was this workhorse and he still is today.
Speaker 3: And you know, he was this.
Speaker 2: Quite tough negotiator, and you know he definitely instilled in us,
Speaker 2: both my brother and myself and my sister, this really
Speaker 2: strong work ethic. And you know I can remember that
Speaker 2: from a very very young age. So, yeah, as you said,
Speaker 2: I just love to work. I worked in the family canteen.
Speaker 2: My father used to say to me, I'm his canteen
Speaker 2: manager by day, and I'm his bank manager by night.
Speaker 4: I've read that.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I would sit there at home at the end
Speaker 3: of the day.
Speaker 2: I was all of nine or ten years of age,
Speaker 2: by the way, I would bag all the money up
Speaker 2: and I'd put them in their little bags, you know
Speaker 2: that you get from the bank and the one and
Speaker 2: two sting coins will my pay for the day. So
Speaker 2: you know, I had this high lucrative business going on
Speaker 2: for myself at you know, nine or ten years of age.
Speaker 2: But you know, I do really go back and credit
Speaker 2: a lot of that upbringing and you know, those foundations
Speaker 2: of knowledge and discipline and hard work to really the
Speaker 2: woman and leader I am today.
Speaker 1: I loved reading that in the book, in those early chapters, like,
Speaker 1: I think you get such a beautiful patchwork vision of
Speaker 1: someone when you understand where it all came from and
Speaker 1: the mentors and the family kind of you know, just
Speaker 1: those values that have been instilled in you from a
Speaker 1: young age. I love connecting all the dots along the
Speaker 1: way and kind of going, oh.
Speaker 4: That's how it all happened. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But I also think, you know, particularly because there is
Speaker 1: such greater access and visibility of now what people do
Speaker 1: in their life, we can be really impatient. There's a
Speaker 1: you know, we're always seeking instant gratuity of finding our
Speaker 1: dream job. And you know, if if you heard that
Speaker 1: you're parents had had you working from an early age,
Speaker 1: it kind of makes sense that you ended up being
Speaker 1: a CEO. But in between, there was so much You
Speaker 1: started out as a teenager on the shop floor at
Speaker 1: just Jeans. Did you ever dream of being a CEO
Speaker 1: back then?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 1: What was your first entrance out of family business and
Speaker 1: into your.
Speaker 4: First actual career. How did it go?
Speaker 2: What were your aspiration I was one of those teenagers
Speaker 2: that would come home every week and be something different.
Speaker 3: You know, this week, I'm going to be a.
Speaker 2: Police for the next week, week I'm a hairdresser, next week,
Speaker 2: I'm a doctor. And I would have a different career
Speaker 2: choice every single week. So I had absolutely no idea
Speaker 2: what I wanted to do. But at the end of
Speaker 2: my year eleven school year, I got a summer job
Speaker 2: at the local Justine store, as you've read in my book,
Speaker 2: and I was sixteen years of age, and I absolutely
Speaker 2: loved it. From the minute I walked through the door.
Speaker 2: I just loved everything about fashion retail. And at the
Speaker 2: end of that summer, the area manager came down and
Speaker 2: said to me, would love you to stay on with
Speaker 2: the business.
Speaker 3: And You've got potential were her words.
Speaker 2: And you know what, sixteen year old young girl wouldn't
Speaker 2: be excited about a big boss saying those words to her.
Speaker 2: So here I was absolutely excited. But for me, Sarah,
Speaker 2: I was, as I said, quiet teenager. So I knew
Speaker 2: that if I wanted to progress in my career and
Speaker 2: move up the ranks, that I really had to get
Speaker 2: noticed through my results, and so I worked hard. I
Speaker 2: did exactly what I saw my parents do, and I
Speaker 2: made budget and I won competitions and I sold the
Speaker 2: most le by jeans, and you know, I just wanted
Speaker 2: to I just wanted to please, and you know, I'm
Speaker 2: a natural people pleaser, and that started from again at
Speaker 2: a very young age. But I just wanted to do
Speaker 2: everything right and to the best of my ability. And
Speaker 2: at the age of eighteen, I was promoted to the
Speaker 2: youngest store manager in the company. At twenty I was
Speaker 2: promoted to the youngest area manager. And then at the
Speaker 2: age of twenty four, I was promoted to the state
Speaker 2: manager for Victoria, running fifty four stores, and that's where
Speaker 2: I spent my next four years. But what I realized
Speaker 2: was that I really loved peace people, and so for me,
Speaker 2: each promotion and I didn't realize this till much later
Speaker 2: on in my life, but each promotion for me was
Speaker 2: the opportunity to inspire and influence and impact people around
Speaker 2: me and their lives and their careers. And so that
Speaker 2: was really my motivation. And then in nineteen ninety nine,
Speaker 2: I picked up the phone and it was sports Girl
Speaker 2: at the other end, and I wanted me to come and.
Speaker 3: Join their business.
Speaker 2: And who could say no to those incredible iconic colored strikes.
Speaker 5: And a very famous institution exactly, and so I joined
Speaker 5: and that's where I then spent the next twenty years
Speaker 5: of my life up until March last year.
Speaker 2: And as you said, thirteen of those as CEO, six
Speaker 2: at Suzanne and the past seven at sports Girl.
Speaker 3: So it's been an incredible, incredible fun.
Speaker 4: Journey, Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: And I think that's something so important to remind people
Speaker 1: of that you can find yourself loving people and not
Speaker 1: be an extrovert. I thought it was really interesting that
Speaker 1: you concentrated quite a lot when you were describing leadership,
Speaker 1: as you started off quite shy, and people don't automatically
Speaker 1: think if they're shy that a leadership role would necessarily
Speaker 1: be well suited to them. But I think the phrase
Speaker 1: I mean you just said it then, was you got
Speaker 1: noticed by your results. You don't have to be the
Speaker 1: loudest person in the room, you don't have to be
Speaker 1: the most talkative person in the room. You can get
Speaker 1: in front of people in different ways, and that's not
Speaker 1: often what you hear. You often hear I just had
Speaker 1: the conversation and I just cornered this person and this
Speaker 1: you know, I got on the blower and I cold
Speaker 1: called these people. But you can also, I think, put
Speaker 1: your head down and butt up and just work damn hard.
Speaker 1: And that was something I really took away that I
Speaker 1: think people who were shy often siloed themselves and then
Speaker 1: self select out of things, thinking that they're automatically not suited.
Speaker 1: But I think that's definitely not the case, because you
Speaker 1: can breed new skills at any time. But before we do,
Speaker 1: get into the skills of leadership, because I know you
Speaker 1: have so much value to share there. I know that
Speaker 1: you ended up going full time into the business before
Speaker 1: you had finished year twelve, that you had to go
Speaker 1: home and tell your parents that you weren't going to
Speaker 1: finish school so that you could take up this opportunity.
Speaker 1: What is your view now on tertiary studies and going
Speaker 1: to university, because I think that's something that's quite ingrained
Speaker 1: in a lot of us, either culturally or just in
Speaker 1: our own minds or from social expectation, But many people
Speaker 1: have also made it without that. What advice do you
Speaker 1: have for people who are feeling like maybe it's not
Speaker 1: their pathway.
Speaker 2: It's a great question, and when you go back to
Speaker 2: that moment about telling my parents about you know, I'm
Speaker 2: sixteen and I'm not going back to school.
Speaker 3: I'm going to sell jeans on the shop floor.
Speaker 2: I think, oh, that it comes straight back to me
Speaker 2: because I was petrified in the time, you know. And
Speaker 2: as I did say that to them, I could see
Speaker 2: with both of them this disappointment on their faces, because
Speaker 2: you know, they had these incredible aspirations for me. You know,
Speaker 2: they wanted me to be a doctor and a lawyer
Speaker 2: and all of these sort of things that would have
Speaker 2: served the family super well, right, you know, But in
Speaker 2: that moment, my parents both said to me, love what
Speaker 2: you do, work hard, give up, and so that's exactly
Speaker 2: what I did. But you know, that question around the
Speaker 2: university study is a really interesting one and one that
Speaker 2: I do get asked given my path has not been that.
Speaker 2: My path has not even been to finish school. So
Speaker 2: you know, I don't think, Sarah, there is a right
Speaker 2: or wrong path, is what I would say. I really
Speaker 2: think it's different for everyone, depending on what it is
Speaker 2: you want to do. You know, I think about my
Speaker 2: three children now, and they're all so different. Jake, my oldest,
Speaker 2: has just finished a five year double degree and My
Speaker 2: youngest son, Train who's twenty three, he dropped out of unit.
Speaker 2: It just wasn't for him. He just didn't enjoy it,
Speaker 2: so he went to night or instead. So you know,
Speaker 2: I think if you need a university degree to follow
Speaker 2: your passion, then that's absolutely fantastic. Go at it and
Speaker 2: work hard and give it everything you've got. But you know,
Speaker 2: I always say it's different horses for different courses, so
Speaker 2: it's entirely up to the individual.
Speaker 4: I think that's such great advice.
Speaker 1: And I mean, obviously there are some areas like medicine
Speaker 1: or you kind of want or you have to have
Speaker 1: gone to university, and I would like my doctors to.
Speaker 4: Have studied for a very long time.
Speaker 1: But equally there are areas where it's not, you know,
Speaker 1: the pathway doesn't necessitate that you do that.
Speaker 4: And did you find that you've.
Speaker 1: Ever had to prove yourself because you didn't have that title,
Speaker 1: or that it's ever disadvantaged you. And I also particularly
Speaker 1: because it wasn't necessarily the age of entrepreneurship as it
Speaker 1: is now, where you know, people are forging pathways in
Speaker 1: all kinds of directions, But back then, was it more conventional?
Speaker 1: Did you have to sort of sell it to people
Speaker 1: or were you just working so hard that you proved
Speaker 1: yourself anyway.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just think it was part of the journey.
Speaker 2: To be honest, I think I was just you know,
Speaker 2: I was working hard and I got great results, and
Speaker 2: again that was through people, and I always credited my
Speaker 2: people for everything that happened. You know, if we won
Speaker 2: an award, I would stand up and say, this is
Speaker 2: not mine, this is my team. You know, this is
Speaker 2: ours collectively. So it was really just my pathway. But
Speaker 2: you know, as I said, I did that through empowering
Speaker 2: and inspiring people around me.
Speaker 1: It sounds like something you've always been very good at
Speaker 1: and you need to do throughout your career. So share
Speaker 1: some of that you're now, you know, kind of looking back,
Speaker 1: I think often we don't crystallize those lessons until much later.
Speaker 1: But looking back, you've compiled into this beautiful book such
Speaker 1: a comprehensive guide on leadership and what it is and
Speaker 1: what qualities stand out. And I love that you call
Speaker 1: it a lifestyle choice. You're not necessarily born again talking
Speaker 1: about siloing yourself. You're not necessarily born a leader or
Speaker 1: born not a leader, and that's the end. You know,
Speaker 1: it's a choice that we can practice and you can
Speaker 1: grow into those roles. So how do you feel that
Speaker 1: you grew into a leader? And what things do you
Speaker 1: look for or think now you mentor other people as well?
Speaker 1: How do you kind of train new leaders?
Speaker 2: As I was saying, you know, I was a very
Speaker 2: curious sort of young teenager and even a young girl,
Speaker 2: and I was always really intrigued why people behave the
Speaker 2: way they did, both good and bad. And I always
Speaker 2: wondered why did some people treat others with kindness? And
Speaker 2: why do some people step over others for self gain?
Speaker 2: Or you know, why were some people caring and others cruel?
Speaker 2: And why did some people create these incredible environments of
Speaker 2: collaboration and others' environments of fear? And you know, without
Speaker 2: knowing it, I was becoming this leader by design. And
Speaker 2: you know, we all have the ability to become leaders
Speaker 2: by design, both in our lives and in our leadership lives.
Speaker 2: And you know, I always say so, I don't believe
Speaker 2: anyone's born a leader. I think we all have the
Speaker 2: ability to design that leadership life we want to live in.
Speaker 2: And you know, there are so many incredible qualities of
Speaker 2: a great leader. I could list one hundred of them.
Speaker 2: You know, it's about knowing yourself.
Speaker 3: And you know, great.
Speaker 2: Leaders show courage in the way they lead, and they're
Speaker 2: incredible listeners, and they encourage collaboration, and they share their
Speaker 2: vision with not just the top level of the company,
Speaker 2: but you know, right through the organization, and they lead
Speaker 2: by example. And I think the biggest thing is that
Speaker 2: great leaders know that they're in service to others. And
Speaker 2: I think that's really where so many leaders wrong. Is
Speaker 2: a lot of leaders think it is all about them,
Speaker 2: and it's actually not. Being a great leader is about
Speaker 2: being in service to other people.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, I got so many fascinating perspectives out of
Speaker 1: the chapters on leadership in the book that I just
Speaker 1: never thought about. I'd never thought about that element of
Speaker 1: service or you know, how that would change someone's approach
Speaker 1: to leading. And I think often as you progress upper
Speaker 1: corporate letter within an organization, or even as you progress
Speaker 1: in your career as a business person, I don't think
Speaker 1: anyone realizes in the early days that leadership is a
Speaker 1: necessarily element that's separate to just doing your job. There's
Speaker 1: doing your job, and then there's leading the people underneath
Speaker 1: you to also do their job. And it's not an
Speaker 1: automatic skill either. You're not automatically good at it. It's
Speaker 1: a practice. And it's also something else you said that
Speaker 1: I really liked was you used to look up to
Speaker 1: leaders based on their titles, which is of course the
Speaker 1: most obvious form of leadership, but often it's people who
Speaker 1: just lead within their small sphere of influence. You don't
Speaker 1: have to be a CEO to be a leader. Can
Speaker 1: apply it to your friendship groups, or your tennis club
Speaker 1: or whatever it may be. I think that's really really fascinating,
Speaker 1: and I think one of the big things that I'd
Speaker 1: love to ask you about as well is the fact that,
Speaker 1: particularly at CEO level, only seventeen percent or maybe even
Speaker 1: I don't know if that starts changed since you published
Speaker 1: the book, which was I mean only last year, but
Speaker 1: only seventeen percent of CEO as a women, How as
Speaker 1: a female leader have you found striving to progress up
Speaker 1: a letder? Has there been anything in particular that has
Speaker 1: hindered you, has helped you, any particular advice that you
Speaker 1: would pass on to younger women who were trying to
Speaker 1: kind of make themselves seen in an organization.
Speaker 2: It's a fantastic question, and it's a statistic that I'm
Speaker 2: super proud of being a part of, and one that
Speaker 2: makes me extremely sad as well, because we just do
Speaker 2: not have enough female leadership in this country, and in fact,
Speaker 2: we don't have enough great leadership in this country, and
Speaker 2: very passionate about helping women move along that continuum because
Speaker 2: we need a much more balanced approach to leadership to
Speaker 2: get the right outcomes. So for me, I was really
Speaker 2: really fortunate. I know a lot of people around me
Speaker 2: that haven't been as fortunate and have been in situations
Speaker 2: that haven't been as accommodating and as nice as the
Speaker 2: one I've been able to sort of work in, I suppose,
Speaker 2: but I worked in a privately owned business In both
Speaker 2: scenarios my whole thirty years in retail. Both the businesses
Speaker 2: I worked in were privately owned and they were very
Speaker 2: female centric, so it was very much about women supporting women.
Speaker 2: And I was very fortunate to be at the Helm
Speaker 2: for thirteen years. So I created the environment that I
Speaker 2: wanted to get up to every day.
Speaker 3: I created the.
Speaker 2: Environment that I would have been happy for my children
Speaker 2: to get up to and go every day. So I
Speaker 2: was very fortunate in that circumstance, But I know that
Speaker 2: there are many women out there that have had a
Speaker 2: much tougher time than that and really struggle to move
Speaker 2: up that corporate ladder. We need to be the game
Speaker 2: changers for change. We need to be circuit breakers in
Speaker 2: the way we view female leadership in this country.
Speaker 1: And in terms of upskilling, to be able to fly
Speaker 1: that flag and have the conversations, particularly if you do
Speaker 1: find yourself in a workplace that isn't perhaps automatically as
Speaker 1: female centric, or whether culture doesn't quite embrace gender equality
Speaker 1: yet in the way that it should. How do you
Speaker 1: mentor in your mentor meat program young leaders to progress
Speaker 1: up the ladder. What are the things that you think
Speaker 1: they could do to even put themselves forward. Like one
Speaker 1: of the stats I talk about all the time, which
Speaker 1: I saw in the book and I highlighted it all
Speaker 1: over again, is that even institutional inequalities aside because of timing,
Speaker 1: women will often wait much longer than their male colleagues
Speaker 1: to apply for promotions. So it's not even about who's
Speaker 1: good or not, it's the positions often taken. What are
Speaker 1: some of the things that you counsel young women to
Speaker 1: do on their journey sort of upwards.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a fantastic question and one I love sharing
Speaker 2: with women because my job is to help change happen.
Speaker 2: And I think there's a number of things that I
Speaker 2: talk about and share in my Mental Meat program and
Speaker 2: work with women on and you know, we need to
Speaker 2: know ourselves and our value and our purpose. I always
Speaker 2: say leadership starts with self, and we work on leadership skills.
Speaker 2: But the number one or one of the biggest focuses
Speaker 2: is building confidence. And I think that is really what
Speaker 2: is holding women back again on putting their hand up
Speaker 2: for that promotion, or asking for that pay rise, or
Speaker 2: asking for a seat at that table, or sitting in
Speaker 2: a boardroom and having an opinion because of this lack
Speaker 2: of confidence that's holding us back.
Speaker 3: So I work with.
Speaker 2: Women around the myths around confidence, what holds us back,
Speaker 2: and how to build real confidence and it can be
Speaker 2: the real game changer.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The second section of the podcast is called an ata,
Speaker 1: and I usually cover them separately. That's all the barriers
Speaker 1: to your joy, but I think it works here to
Speaker 1: weave them in together because self doubt is often the
Speaker 1: biggest challenge that most people identify. It's not the physical
Speaker 1: logistics of doing their job. It's the mindset of getting
Speaker 1: ready to do the doing that's like that can overwhelm you.
Speaker 1: And I love again that you combat that silo mentality
Speaker 1: in that confidence is also not you're not born with it,
Speaker 1: that's something that's built as well.
Speaker 4: So what are some of.
Speaker 1: The strategies that you've used if you're having a moment
Speaker 1: if I'm not worthy or I you know, don't deserve
Speaker 1: this CEO role, or I shouldn't be in this boardroom?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: Is it mentors that you turn to? Is it a
Speaker 1: particular you know, pep talk you give yourself. How do
Speaker 1: you kind of arm yourself against that doubt?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a fantastic question. I think the number one
Speaker 2: thing we have to do is change our story, you know.
Speaker 2: And what I do say to women is that we
Speaker 2: all experience self doubt and self sabotage and imposter syndrome,
Speaker 2: even the most seemingly confident women and people. You know,
Speaker 2: we all have this inner critic that creates stories that
Speaker 2: hold us back and really allow us to compare ourselves
Speaker 2: to other people's success in their lives. And you know,
Speaker 2: whether we tell ourselves I'm too young or I'm too old,
Speaker 2: or I'm not good enough, or she's better than me,
Speaker 2: or I don't fit in, or I don't have all
Speaker 2: the skills. You know, we create these stories, and we
Speaker 2: really need to interrupt those stories of self sabotage and
Speaker 2: start taking control and really create more empowering stories that
Speaker 2: really allow us to feel confident to take action. You know,
Speaker 2: we really need to be changing that narrative for ourselves.
Speaker 2: We need to know when that inner critic is sitting
Speaker 2: on our shoulder telling us all of these negative thoughts.
Speaker 2: And there's a whole lot of strategies, as you know
Speaker 2: in my book, you know, self talk and changing your story,
Speaker 2: and you know, building boundaries to protect yourself who is
Speaker 2: the asset. And you know, confidence is contagious. Surround yourself
Speaker 2: with confident people, talk to yourself like you're best friends.
Speaker 2: You know, there are so many things that we can
Speaker 2: do to build confidence. And I really do believe that
Speaker 2: all roads lead back to that confidence.
Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't it funny how powerful doubt can be. I mean,
Speaker 1: we don't even give ourselves a chance to see if
Speaker 1: you could physically do the job or not. It's can
Speaker 1: I mentally put myself forward for the job like it's
Speaker 1: so many steps before. That mindset is the most important thing,
Speaker 1: and the more you remember that, I think, the less
Speaker 1: scary it is to think, Oh, I don't have to
Speaker 1: worry about doing the job. I just have to get
Speaker 1: my head right and then everything else kind of follows.
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Speaker 1: A month, you can enjoy unlimited deliveries and then ata
Speaker 1: of draining grocery troops will be knocked over forever. I'll
Speaker 1: pop the link in show notes. Now, what would you
Speaker 1: say are some of the things you're most proud of? Like,
Speaker 1: with thirteen years a CEO, but also in upper management
Speaker 1: before that and in a smaller family held business, you
Speaker 1: can have a really evident legacy in what you have
Speaker 1: changed about the culture or initiatives that you've started. Is
Speaker 1: there anything you look back on and go in my
Speaker 1: role as CEO, I use the power that I had
Speaker 1: to do X and I'm so proud of that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's so many moments in people expect I think
Speaker 2: when you ask those questions about tell me about your success,
Speaker 2: and you know, they expect you to say, I was
Speaker 2: on stage.
Speaker 3: And I received the CEO ward and did this, and
Speaker 3: you know that's.
Speaker 2: Just so not what really floats my boat at the
Speaker 2: end of the day for me, it was as I said,
Speaker 2: it was always about people and watching people rise, watching
Speaker 2: people do things they didn't think they could do, watching
Speaker 2: people believe in themselves. You know, as I said, I
Speaker 2: created this culture that people wanted to come to, and
Speaker 2: you know, it still talked about today with people that
Speaker 2: have worked at Sports Guild during you know, me being
Speaker 2: there saying what an amazing culture that that business had,
Speaker 2: and you know that took a lot of time and effort.
Speaker 2: Culture is not something that just you know, pops up overnight.
Speaker 2: Culture is something you have to dedicate every single day
Speaker 2: of your leadership life too. So I think culture is
Speaker 2: probably one of the things I'm most proud of, you know,
Speaker 2: for me. But you know, Sarah, people also talk about success.
Speaker 2: You know what is what is that success? And I
Speaker 2: always talk about and you know, some people it's power
Speaker 2: and status and money and all of those things.
Speaker 3: You know, I've never looked at it like that either.
Speaker 2: And I have a bit of a weird brain. It
Speaker 2: looks at things through a different lens. I suppose to
Speaker 2: some other people maybe, but you know, for me, success
Speaker 2: is about leaving this planet better than the way I
Speaker 2: found it. And when I talk about that, that is
Speaker 2: the way I can impact women and help you get
Speaker 2: more women at the helm and give women the confidence
Speaker 2: to step up and do all of those things.
Speaker 3: For me, that's going to be success.
Speaker 2: If I can be a game changer, if I can
Speaker 2: change the narrative, if I can change those numbers, that's
Speaker 2: going to be success for me.
Speaker 1: And that's something we really focus on a lot on
Speaker 1: the show, and it's actually the crux of the whole,
Speaker 1: you know, flipping seas the day to be Cca is
Speaker 1: that idea of your metrics for success changing as you
Speaker 1: progress through your career. They often start very not superficial,
Speaker 1: but just one dimensional, very financial, very tightal orientated. But
Speaker 1: sooner or later you come to the realization that it's
Speaker 1: your life experience, it's fulfillment, it's joy, it's all the
Speaker 1: moments in between. I can only imagine, and how many
Speaker 1: highlight moments once you started to reevaluate you know what
Speaker 1: matters to you and how you bring that to your work.
Speaker 1: I can imagine there were so many highlights, But I
Speaker 1: also know there were a lot of tougher times that
Speaker 1: maybe even propelled you faster towards those big realizations than
Speaker 1: their easy moments. Can you tell us before we move
Speaker 1: on about what happened in two thousand and seven and
Speaker 1: why you perceived yourself as a Formula one race card.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, well it was a very big year two
Speaker 2: thousand and seven. I've got to say I was thirty
Speaker 2: six years of age. I had three young children at
Speaker 2: this time. Macy was just a little baby at two,
Speaker 2: and Trent was nine and Jake was ten, and I'd
Speaker 2: been at Sports Girl for eight years, and I was
Speaker 2: acting general manager.
Speaker 3: And I do I describe myself.
Speaker 2: As a red Ferrari, And I read Ferraari that had
Speaker 2: just kept going and going and going, and it got
Speaker 2: faster and faster and faster until it couldn't.
Speaker 3: And the problem with.
Speaker 2: That red Ferrari was that I'd never put petrol in
Speaker 2: the tank, I'd never put air in the ties, I'd
Speaker 2: never put it in for a service. I was absolutely exhausted.
Speaker 2: I was burnt out, and I hit a wall. And
Speaker 2: it had nothing to do with whether I loved my
Speaker 2: job or not. Because I loved my job. I loved
Speaker 2: every minute of it. I just had nothing left in
Speaker 2: my tank. And I remember it so vividly. I walked
Speaker 2: in the door this night and I was a mess.
Speaker 2: And I said to my husband, I'm done, and I'm
Speaker 2: quite black and white in that respect. And anyway, we
Speaker 2: had lots of discussion and it was very emotional, and
Speaker 2: I went in the next day to resign and I
Speaker 2: felt like I was going to take these big samd
Speaker 2: bags off my shoulders, and I did for a moment
Speaker 2: when I said those words, But lucky for me, I
Speaker 2: got talked out of that idea and instead I took
Speaker 2: three and a half million, four months off, which was
Speaker 2: very fortunate, and I put that Red Ferrari in for
Speaker 2: a well overdue service and a big dose of self care.
Speaker 2: And self care was something I didn't even those words
Speaker 2: didn't even spill out of my mouth, you know, I
Speaker 2: didn't even know what self care was. So it was
Speaker 2: the best lesson I've got to say in my entire life,
Speaker 2: because it forced me to find balance. It forced me
Speaker 2: to stop being a workaholic and own that badge. I
Speaker 2: had this badge of being a workaholic, and I was
Speaker 2: so proud of it, and so it really taught me
Speaker 2: to do things differently and I had to pretty much
Speaker 2: change the way I lived my life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really interesting how many people who do make
Speaker 1: it to the really upper echelons of the most successful
Speaker 1: businesses have had some kind of big health event. Like
Speaker 1: I would love to say that people can have that
Speaker 1: big realization preemptively, but often it takes that for you
Speaker 1: to actually accept I have limits. Unfortunately, I do have to,
Speaker 1: you know, manage my pace, and especially when you love
Speaker 1: your job. It's easier if you don't love your job,
Speaker 1: because you want to stop working when you love it,
Speaker 1: there's no incentive, particularly when you are, you know, in
Speaker 1: the aiming to be in that twenty percent female CEO area.
Speaker 1: Like your identity is wrapped up in productivity. So how
Speaker 1: did you change your mindset to not see it as oh,
Speaker 1: I'm not doing enough, or I might become irrelevant, or
Speaker 1: I might drop out of the race. If I taking
Speaker 1: three months off is quite significant, how did you kind
Speaker 1: of get your head around that identity change.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a great question.
Speaker 2: Well, I kind of didn't have a choice because if
Speaker 2: I didn't take that time off, I probably wouldn't have
Speaker 2: had my fiftieth birthday this year, and I probably wouldn't
Speaker 2: be in the great shape that I am today. So
Speaker 2: I actually had no choice. I was on that train
Speaker 2: to burn out. Town, and I didn't know how to
Speaker 2: get off it. So for me, it was about putting
Speaker 2: boundaries in place. It was learning to say no. It
Speaker 2: was to stop being a people pleaser all the time.
Speaker 2: I still struggle with that today because I am a
Speaker 2: natural people pleaser.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I got myself a coach, and as I said, I
Speaker 2: started to embrace this self care, which I had always
Speaker 2: thought was so selfish.
Speaker 3: As I said, I've watched my mum and.
Speaker 2: Dad work so hard, and so for me, being a
Speaker 2: workhorse like my father was the only path. So, you know,
Speaker 2: it was really, as I said, it was one of
Speaker 2: the best lessons I have ever had. And what it did, Sarah,
Speaker 2: was allow me to be the best version of myself.
Speaker 2: And I didn't realize how good I could be. I
Speaker 2: thought I was being awesome back then. You know, when
Speaker 2: you're good to yourself, what you're doing is filling up
Speaker 2: your tank, and you have so much more to give
Speaker 2: to other people. And once I started to realize that
Speaker 2: that was probably the big game changer. It didn't seem
Speaker 2: selfish to be filling my tank up. It was actually
Speaker 2: serving others so much better because I was such a
Speaker 2: better person. I was a fun mum, I was a
Speaker 2: happy wife. I wasn't this cranky bitch that just wanted
Speaker 2: to you know, that was just angry all the time
Speaker 2: and tied and exhausted and had nothing left, you know.
Speaker 2: So it really is a game changer because I could
Speaker 2: see the transformation.
Speaker 4: I think the burnout conversation.
Speaker 1: Like sometimes you just think, oh my god, this is
Speaker 1: so cliche, but then when you actually hear from people
Speaker 1: like this whole podcast is a series of real life stories.
Speaker 1: It's so recurring because it's an actual, widespread rife problem
Speaker 1: that costs billions of dollars every year. Because you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know whether it's the online world that's allowed
Speaker 1: us to be connected more intensely and longer per day
Speaker 1: than we ever have been. Our boundaries are just so blurry,
Speaker 1: and then in the pandemic it was even harder. So
Speaker 1: I think that it's that idea of balance has become
Speaker 1: more and more elusive. But I know that you don't
Speaker 1: even really like using the word work life balance tell
Speaker 1: us about how you like, what kind of value you instill. Instead,
Speaker 1: you call it life in balance, and there's an eighty
Speaker 1: twenty rule. How do you interpret it instead? In a
Speaker 1: way that works for you.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: This again, this is another gift out of burnout.
Speaker 2: So you know, I had no balance of any description,
Speaker 2: and I would do that this is my work and
Speaker 2: this is my life, and you know, my work took
Speaker 2: up most of my time. And so I came up
Speaker 2: with life imbalance. And for me, we just shouldn't put
Speaker 2: life into one box and work into another. They need
Speaker 2: to be best friends, they need to coexist, they need
Speaker 2: to love each other and live life together.
Speaker 3: And so I started, you know, in my mind.
Speaker 2: And I share this with a lot of women today
Speaker 2: and help them implement life imbalance. I came up with
Speaker 2: the eighty twenty rule for me, So eighty percent of
Speaker 2: my life has to be in balance because that brings
Speaker 2: calmness and organization and structure and all those things that
Speaker 2: I like. But twenty percent needs to be chaotic because
Speaker 2: that brings risk and innovation and fun and excitement. But
Speaker 2: what happens is when that twenty percent starts to go
Speaker 2: to thirty and forty and fifty, I know that I'm
Speaker 2: not doing things so smartly. So I have to start
Speaker 2: to get that balance back. So I have to add,
Speaker 2: change or delete something. They're the three big shifts, add, change, delete,
Speaker 2: and when I do that, I get those scales back
Speaker 2: in an eighty twenty. And that's what works for me.
Speaker 2: You know, it doesn't work for everyone that way. You
Speaker 2: might be Sarah fifty to fifty. Let's say you might
Speaker 2: want fifty percent of your life in balance and fifty
Speaker 2: percent to be chaos. That's absolutely fine if that works
Speaker 2: for you, as long as you know when the balance
Speaker 2: shifts that you need to add, change, or delete something.
Speaker 2: So pick your balance, it doesn't matter what it is,
Speaker 2: but just know those triggers, because when we have that
Speaker 2: life in balance, that's when we are absolutely awesome and
Speaker 2: at our absolute best.
Speaker 1: I think it's a great reminder as well that your
Speaker 1: numbers might not look like someone else's because I have
Speaker 1: friends who can survive on ten ninety and the chaos
Speaker 1: is absolutely fine.
Speaker 4: It's not disruptive to them.
Speaker 1: They thrive in that environment, whereas if I'm, like, you know,
Speaker 1: anywhere near fifty to fifty, it's a total disaster. I'm
Speaker 1: so unproductive. So as long as you're trying to identify
Speaker 1: whatever your balance is and sticking to that, it can
Speaker 1: be really easy to look at your friends who have
Speaker 1: different stamina and in you know, comparison even slides into
Speaker 1: energy management these days, but I think, yeah, just listening
Speaker 1: to what really works for you and what doesn't, and
Speaker 1: it's so much trial and error, Like it takes so
Speaker 1: long to figure these things out.
Speaker 3: Absolutely does, Yes, it does.
Speaker 1: So after you know, an incredible couple of decades with
Speaker 1: the group and making it to that CEO role and
Speaker 1: having that extent, you know, past a decade, it's so
Speaker 1: fascinating that you then decided it was time for a
Speaker 1: new chapter. And I think often on the outside, those
Speaker 1: kind of shifts just look like leave in your dream job.
Speaker 1: Why would you walk away from it all when it's
Speaker 1: all going so well? But I also think people know
Speaker 1: internally when they're agitating for change, Like you can feel
Speaker 1: that it's time, And it's so hard to explain, but
Speaker 1: people hold on to things for a lot longer, I
Speaker 1: think than they need to because of the fear of
Speaker 1: rebuilding your identity as someone else without the title, without
Speaker 1: that safe structure of I'm the CEO of sports girl,
Speaker 1: Like that's such a clear way to orientate who you
Speaker 1: are in the world. How did you know it was
Speaker 1: time and what was that big shift in identity like
Speaker 1: to rebuild after one chapter ends at a new one starts.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, look, it's an amazing question.
Speaker 2: And I kind of look at my life in decades,
Speaker 2: so my twenties, my thirties, my forties, and now what
Speaker 2: do my fifties look like? And it is absolutely crazy
Speaker 2: how quickly a decade goes, and in fact, it's crazy
Speaker 2: how quickly twenty years were with Sports Girl, And you know,
Speaker 2: at one minute you're at ten years, then you're at fifteen,
Speaker 2: and then you're at twenty before you know it. And
Speaker 2: when I resigned from my role, I actually wanted to
Speaker 2: take a year off. I actually had my twenty year milestone,
Speaker 2: so I was hitting all of these big milestones, and
Speaker 2: you know that's often triggers for people to say, I'm
Speaker 2: writing my next chapter, I'm doing something different. So I
Speaker 2: had my twenty year anniversary with the group in November,
Speaker 2: and I finished March. The following year, I was also
Speaker 2: turning fifty, so for me, it was about time to
Speaker 2: write my next chapter. And I'd actually planned to, as
Speaker 2: I said, do my book, do some passion projects. I'm
Speaker 2: on a couple of charity boards, so I was going
Speaker 2: to take this year off, do some travel COVID not
Speaker 2: and then go back into potentially another CEO role. I
Speaker 2: just needed a change of scenery and a change of
Speaker 2: you know, doing sort of the same thing, I suppose.
Speaker 2: So I resigned and I started to take some time off,
Speaker 2: and COVID hit and it changed for everyone, and again
Speaker 2: for me, there were so many gifts in COVID because me,
Speaker 2: I tall, me women was born. I wrote my book,
Speaker 2: which I had always planned to do. I started coaching
Speaker 2: leaders and business. I joined asx board. You know, so
Speaker 2: a lot of things sort of went on my plate
Speaker 2: and I actually didn't have time to then think about
Speaker 2: being a CEO again, you know, not to say that
Speaker 2: I won't go back there one day.
Speaker 3: Who knows.
Speaker 2: You know, I've got plenty of great years ahead of
Speaker 2: me in this industry, but who knows. But at the moment,
Speaker 2: I just love what I'm doing. And you know, that
Speaker 2: identity piece is a really interesting one because I actually
Speaker 2: think about my identity not so much as who I
Speaker 2: am and some of those attributes, but I think about
Speaker 2: it as my purpose.
Speaker 3: And my purpose as a CEO was to.
Speaker 2: Inspire and empower and allow people to bring their best
Speaker 2: selves to work every day, which then allowed an organization
Speaker 2: to flourish, and in this next chapter in my life, Sarah,
Speaker 2: my purpose is exactly the same. So my purpose is
Speaker 2: to inspire women, whether that be through these incredible podcasts
Speaker 2: like yours, whether it be through my book, whether it
Speaker 2: be through on stage, it doesn't actually matter where it is.
Speaker 2: I'm still living out my purpose, and my identity actually
Speaker 2: doesn't come back to being CEO. And I think that's
Speaker 2: where we can sometimes get a little bit lost. You know,
Speaker 2: when I ask in my mental meat programs or when
Speaker 2: I'm coaching someone, you know, I'll say who are you?
Speaker 2: And most people go straight to their titles. I'm a CEO,
Speaker 2: I'm an entrepreneur, I'm a hairdresser, I'm and they give
Speaker 2: me all the titles and I say, no, but who
Speaker 2: are you? Because they're the hats we wear, they're the
Speaker 2: jobs we do. That is not actually who we are.
Speaker 2: So I've never really had an identity crisis, I suppose
Speaker 2: because for me, I'm just living out my purpose every day.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that's so well adjusted and balanced, because
Speaker 1: most of us would have a total breakdown because I
Speaker 1: think we do associate, you know, what we do is
Speaker 1: who we are, rather than the fact that they're totally
Speaker 1: different things. And something Lisa Messenger.
Speaker 4: Always says that I love is that your.
Speaker 1: Why stays the same, but your how is supposed to
Speaker 1: change because you can have too much of a good thing.
Speaker 1: And if you start to sort of not plateau but
Speaker 1: get comfortable in that role, then it doesn't matter how
Speaker 1: good it looks to everyone else, Like you need fresh
Speaker 1: challenges and different delivery modes all the time. So how
Speaker 1: has it been sort of transitioning into mental me and
Speaker 1: writing the book? I mean, particularly with the last eighteen
Speaker 1: months to two years being how they are? Is the
Speaker 1: book that you started writing different to the one you
Speaker 1: ended up writing?
Speaker 4: You know? What's that whole process been?
Speaker 3: Like? Yeah, well, my book.
Speaker 2: I actually my book actually came out only in March
Speaker 2: this year, and I wrote my book over I started
Speaker 2: sort of playing with it while I was still sort
Speaker 2: of in my COO role, just you know, on holidays,
Speaker 2: writing notes and I listened to lots of podcasts and
Speaker 2: you know, all of that kind of thing.
Speaker 3: But I actually wrote my book. I went down to.
Speaker 2: Sorrento to my holiday house, and I literally locked myself
Speaker 2: away for three weeks and I wrote my book and
Speaker 2: when I say locked myself away, I turned into the
Speaker 2: Red Ferrari.
Speaker 3: I didn't sleep, I.
Speaker 2: Know, and wrote and wrote and it's okay if you
Speaker 2: drive the Red Ferrari like that every now and then,
Speaker 2: you just can't do it all the time, right. So
Speaker 2: I wrote my book this year and it got the
Speaker 2: last year and got published this year, and it's just
Speaker 2: been phenomenal. Like I just I love it because, as
Speaker 2: I said, my purpose is my purpose. I'm just doing
Speaker 2: it a different way. So my book now, instead of
Speaker 2: me as a leader reaching an organization, I'm now being
Speaker 2: able to go broader and deeper and wider than I've
Speaker 2: ever been before with my message. So you know, that's
Speaker 2: been so wonderful. And you know, my book is sort
Speaker 2: of part autobiography, so I share my life journey, which
Speaker 2: is you know, sixteen to CEO again.
Speaker 3: You know the woman and leader I am today.
Speaker 2: But most importantly it's about inspiring and empowering women to
Speaker 2: step up and have a voice and live with purpose
Speaker 2: and really believe in themselves and find that confidence that
Speaker 2: helps them live that life of fulfillment and happiness and
Speaker 2: love and success and all of those kind of things.
Speaker 3: So that's really important to me.
Speaker 2: And then the second part is to inspire and empower leaders,
Speaker 2: both men and women, because we actually need men to
Speaker 2: come on this journey with us as well. So as
Speaker 2: I'm working with women, I'm also working with men, which
Speaker 2: is great. But you know, we need to change this
Speaker 2: era of leadership, and we need to create one where
Speaker 2: we live with kindness and compassion and trust and collaboration,
Speaker 2: and one where we put people at the heart of
Speaker 2: everything we do. And that's what I've been doing for
Speaker 2: a very long time. And so you know, my book is,
Speaker 2: as you know, all about giving tips and advice, and
Speaker 2: there's places where you can write, and you know, I say,
Speaker 2: regardless where you are in that journey, I really want
Speaker 2: to inspire and empower you to really live this life
Speaker 2: and start leading in your own life.
Speaker 3: It's really important.
Speaker 1: I love how interactive it is for all the little
Speaker 1: places to scribble down, because you're kind of bubbling as
Speaker 1: you're reading, like having all these revelations and then it's
Speaker 1: so valuable to have somewhere where you can put them
Speaker 1: all but then also remember where you wrote it down
Speaker 1: and testing, and I think it builds really towards the
Speaker 1: end to that idea. Of really changing any metrics that
Speaker 1: you had for measuring your life, how successful you feel,
Speaker 1: and putting even things like you would think a CEO
Speaker 1: would be so focused on the numbers and on you know,
Speaker 1: financial performance of the business, but also in their own
Speaker 1: life because that's you know, the logical kind of way
Speaker 1: that people have measured their life for so long and
Speaker 1: measured success. But I love that You're like, no profit
Speaker 1: is it's a byproduct of prioritizing people, passion and other things,
Speaker 1: and that I think that's quite revolutionary, you know, like
Speaker 1: people wouldn't expect that from a CEO for the numbers
Speaker 1: to not be the first thing you think about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, the numbers are so important, right, I
Speaker 2: had great people who could do numbers for me. I
Speaker 2: didn't need to do numbers. I needed to inspire people
Speaker 2: to do great things. So that's again where a lot
Speaker 2: of CEOs and leaders go wrong is they think they
Speaker 2: need to be down on every single detail. Of course
Speaker 2: I knew the numbers, but my job was to inspire
Speaker 2: people to get to those numbers.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: So I talked about profits essential. It is absolutely essential.
Speaker 2: It's what innovates, it's what reinvests in business. It's what
Speaker 2: does all of those fantastic things. But all of those
Speaker 2: things that we talk about are driven through people. So
Speaker 2: I flip the equation and I talk about people with
Speaker 2: purpose and passion equals profit. And if we put our
Speaker 2: focus in the first three, the last one comes.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, the last one comes. It is just a no brainer.
Speaker 2: But when we flip it the other way, that's when
Speaker 2: we start to get some really interesting dynamics in the
Speaker 2: way we run organizations, and they become a profit first,
Speaker 2: people's second. And again, I never want to mislead anyone
Speaker 2: that profit is essential in every part of our life,
Speaker 2: you know, whether it be in our personal life or
Speaker 2: in our work life. It makes the world go around.
Speaker 2: But we have to focus on the people. They are
Speaker 2: the ones who deliver strategy. They are the ones who
Speaker 2: deliver innovation, they are the ones who deliver great marketing concepts.
Speaker 2: They deliver everything. So let's focus on the people and
Speaker 2: the profits will come.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I'd love that kind of flip on its head. I
Speaker 1: think that's something that a lot of people can take
Speaker 1: into their own leaderships. What about forty five to thrive
Speaker 1: as a concept in the book, what does that mean?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Again, this came out of burnout, and I used to
Speaker 2: tell myself, Sarah, that I didn't have time for me,
Speaker 2: and I actually think I was probably even a bit
Speaker 2: of a victim.
Speaker 3: I don't have time for me, It's about everyone else.
Speaker 2: You know. I've got an organization to run, I've got
Speaker 2: three children, so I had no self care.
Speaker 3: And here's the thing.
Speaker 2: When we tell ourselves that we don't have time for something,
Speaker 2: what we're really saying is it's not important and it's
Speaker 2: not a priority.
Speaker 3: That's what we're saying. That's what we're telling ourselves.
Speaker 2: And the truth is that if it is important, you
Speaker 2: will make time. You know, I say to the women
Speaker 2: I work with, if exercising is important, you'll make time.
Speaker 2: If creating a side hustle is important.
Speaker 3: You'll make time.
Speaker 2: If going to your kid's concert's important, you'll make time.
Speaker 2: But we just don't think about it like that. And
Speaker 2: I didn't think about it like that either.
Speaker 4: So you know, I.
Speaker 2: Would go for a walk and I'd get halfway and
Speaker 2: turn back around because I feel so guilty. I think
Speaker 2: I need to be doing the washing, ironing. I've got emails,
Speaker 2: I've got children, I've got so I implemented forty five
Speaker 2: to thrive, and it sounds really simple, but it works.
Speaker 2: You have to find forty five minutes in your day
Speaker 2: for you, and that doesn't.
Speaker 3: Matter what it is.
Speaker 2: It can be having a bath, it can be reading
Speaker 2: a book, It can be doing yoga, it can be
Speaker 2: doing some meditation.
Speaker 3: It can be just starting your day without any interruptions,
Speaker 3: without plugging in, just enjoying your first cup of coffee.
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter. But forty five minutes fills your tank.
Speaker 2: It will change your life, and it will, I promise you,
Speaker 2: help you thrive.
Speaker 1: I love that concept so much, which leads beautifully to
Speaker 1: the last section, which is plata, and that is exactly
Speaker 1: that idea of forty five to thrive, that there has
Speaker 1: to be an area of your life that is for
Speaker 1: pure joy that has no productive outcomes.
Speaker 4: I mean, it can have a productive outcome, but.
Speaker 1: Winning or learning or developing can't be why you're doing
Speaker 1: that activity. I think the more separate as well that
Speaker 1: it is from your vocation or your profession, the better,
Speaker 1: because your brain is like totally disengaged. And for people
Speaker 1: who haven't found them and who don't know what their
Speaker 1: passion is, I explained it as like what are the
Speaker 1: activities that make you forget the time, because we never
Speaker 1: forget where we are in the schedule. But occasionally you'll
Speaker 1: find yourself in total flow where you've lost touch with
Speaker 1: time and space. And they're the things that like fill
Speaker 1: the Ferrari's fuel tank, you know there, that's the play.
Speaker 1: So what do you do in your forty five to thrive?
Speaker 1: Do you read or you're a TV watcher? Puzzles, board games?
Speaker 1: Like what kind of things do you do for play?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I love to walk. That's my that's my fiel the tank.
Speaker 2: So I walk every single day. It can be rain, hail,
Speaker 2: or shine generally unless I have something early on in
Speaker 2: the morning, and my husband and I walk pretty much
Speaker 2: every day, or I walk with a friend and we're
Speaker 2: pretty much do ten k morning walks pretty much most days,
Speaker 2: five to six days a week, and that's what feels
Speaker 2: my tank. And people go really but that does. It
Speaker 2: gives me time to re energize, It gives me time
Speaker 2: to think, It gives me time to listen to podcasts,
Speaker 2: It gives me time to chat with my husband. So
Speaker 2: I love that. Walking is absolutely my thing. I love Netflix.
Speaker 2: I love watching you know a series with my daughter
Speaker 2: or my sons or you know.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 2: I love gardening. I find gardening really therapeutic. And we
Speaker 2: do all well, we love my husband and I love gardening.
Speaker 2: And people say, why don't you get a gardener? And
Speaker 2: we're like, because we love doing it ourselves. It's just
Speaker 2: like what we enjoy doing, you know. And I'm down
Speaker 2: there breaking my back and can't get it.
Speaker 3: I get it.
Speaker 2: I get it, like I'm one hundred and five years
Speaker 2: of age, but that won't sort of goes straight says
Speaker 2: why don't we.
Speaker 3: Get a garden? I'm like, because I like this.
Speaker 2: It's great, you know, but it's what fills my tank.
Speaker 2: So again, family, that's my that's my real happy place.
Speaker 4: Oh beautiful.
Speaker 1: I love gardening. I'm so bad at it. Like I've
Speaker 1: actually gotten really good at indoor plants. Our outdoor garden's
Speaker 1: doing okay, it's pretty good, but it's just for joy.
Speaker 1: Like I usually have to win or like excel at things,
Speaker 1: but I'm like, I just do this because it's fun.
Speaker 1: I mean, the weeds aren't getting all their roots out,
Speaker 1: but that's fine. I had a great time.
Speaker 4: It was great for me. So so it is so.
Speaker 2: Much fun and it does it just takes your way
Speaker 2: to another place. You just you're not actually thinking about anything.
Speaker 2: It's it's really quite amazing.
Speaker 3: How it is that.
Speaker 1: And you can't have your phone with you, like I
Speaker 1: think that's also really helpful for me that it takes
Speaker 1: up both my hands and they're dirty, so you can't
Speaker 1: be trying a multitask, which is again like something I
Speaker 1: think we all fall into the habit of multitasking a lot.
Speaker 1: What are three interesting things about you that don't normally
Speaker 1: come up in interviews or conversations, or that maybe aren't
Speaker 1: in the book?
Speaker 2: Oh, okay, three things I would say. The first one
Speaker 2: is I'm Italian and I don't eat tomatoes.
Speaker 3: So that's yes, I.
Speaker 2: Don't don't eat tomatoes, which most people think that's a
Speaker 2: bit weird given you're Italian and everything has tomatoes.
Speaker 1: I know it's you're in your jeans. What does your
Speaker 1: dad say about that?
Speaker 2: I know, I don't mind tomato sauce. I just can't eat.
Speaker 2: I cannot eat a raw tomato. I just can't do it. Wow,
Speaker 2: which is like bizarre. What else would be three? I
Speaker 2: don't know if that's interesting, but I have toes like
Speaker 2: et the least flattering feature of my whole body. Every
Speaker 2: time I take my shoes off, my children laugh me. Go,
Speaker 2: you've got the weirdest toes, Like my second toe is
Speaker 2: bigger than my first toes. So then I'm never going
Speaker 2: to be a foot model ever, not in this lifetime. Good.
Speaker 1: I love that people have probably been wondering, you know,
Speaker 1: for ten years, why sports shoes or cleansed.
Speaker 3: I mean they are literally you would laugh if you
Speaker 3: saw them. Hilarious. What would be I am?
Speaker 2: Well, both my brother and sister are over one hundred
Speaker 2: and eighty centimeters tall, and I got the short gene,
Speaker 2: so I'm about one hundred and sixty four centimeters.
Speaker 3: So we laugh.
Speaker 2: About that, I ioway said, and but I got the
Speaker 2: brains and I got the good looks.
Speaker 3: And they're like, no, we got the whole three. We
Speaker 3: got the trifecta. We got two of them.
Speaker 2: So they probably three things that you know no one
Speaker 2: and know about me.
Speaker 4: They're awesome.
Speaker 1: Oh again, one hundred and sixty four isn't short either,
Speaker 1: So to be the short one in your family at
Speaker 1: that height, that's the same.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that must be really tall, yeah, very tall.
Speaker 1: And since I love quote so much, the last question
Speaker 1: is what is your favorite quote.
Speaker 2: I'm going to use one of mine because I talk
Speaker 2: about leadership and I do this with the women I
Speaker 2: work with. I get them to come up with what
Speaker 2: is their leadership statement? And so my leadership statement is
Speaker 2: one life impacting another in a positive way. So that's
Speaker 2: my favorite quote, and it is in my book. And
Speaker 2: I think that, as I said, we all have the ability.
Speaker 2: We can all impact people's lives in so many different ways.
Speaker 2: We don't need a title, we don't need to be
Speaker 2: a leader. So my quote is one life impacting another
Speaker 2: in a positive Oh.
Speaker 4: I love that so much.
Speaker 1: And if anyone is listening and had decided that they
Speaker 1: weren't a leader or they didn't have it in them,
Speaker 1: this is so empowering that we can all have, you know,
Speaker 1: take leadership over our sphere of influence in our lives.
Speaker 1: And really, yeah, it's just so motivating. So thank you
Speaker 1: so much for sharing your wisdom and your knowledge. I
Speaker 1: am constantly just impressed and inspired by your Thank.
Speaker 3: You so much.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me and doing all the wonderful
Speaker 2: things that you do.
Speaker 3: I mean, you are you know.
Speaker 2: I talk about women inspiring each other and women lifting
Speaker 2: each other up. And you know there is enough room
Speaker 2: in this world for every woman to have success. And
Speaker 2: you know all of the things that you're doing via
Speaker 2: your podcast and sharing women's stories is all about lifting
Speaker 2: women up. So keep doing the awesome that you're doing
Speaker 2: and just doing such a fabulous job.
Speaker 3: So thank you for having me.
Speaker 4: Oh, thank you so much. That is so kind. It's
Speaker 4: been a pleasure.
Speaker 1: Oh. I've walked away with so much to implement in life,
Speaker 1: life in balance, the eighty twenty rule, and so much more.
Speaker 1: Colin's book actually goes into even more depth, and we've
Speaker 1: got five digital copies to give away, which I'll pick
Speaker 1: from the best episode shares for this week, So take
Speaker 1: a screenshot of the episode if you're listening now, do
Speaker 1: it now and share any thoughts or takeaways you've had
Speaker 1: during this chat, tagging at colin Underscore Calendar and myself
Speaker 1: for your chance to win. We should have the next
Speaker 1: miniseries ready to go next week, so hopefully be back
Speaker 1: with the first segment for you then. In the meantime,
Speaker 1: I hope you're having an amazing week and are seizing
Speaker 1: your yay