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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello, and welcome to

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia. Out loud what women are actually talking about

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Speaker 2: on Wednesday, the twentieth of November.

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Speaker 1: I'm Holly Wainwright, I'm MEA Friedman.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Jesse Stevens.

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Speaker 2: And on the show today the Influencer Family, we cannot

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Speaker 2: discuss and after the American election, no one wants to

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Speaker 2: hear what celebrities think. But that isn't going to stop

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Speaker 2: us insisting that they tell us. And are you in

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Speaker 2: your protective hag era? But first, and I apologize in

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Speaker 2: advance mea Friedman.

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Speaker 1: You're apologizing for me? Yes, fairly standard. In case you

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Speaker 1: missed it, Lamar Odin brought a sex doll that looks

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Speaker 1: like Chloe Kardashian. Okay, would you like me to explain?

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Speaker 3: Yes, elaborate please.

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Speaker 1: So Lama Odin is Chloe Kardashian's ex husband. I think

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Speaker 1: he used to be a basketball player. He's the one

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Speaker 1: that was found unconscious in a brothel, I do believe,

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Speaker 1: and was very ill. And how do we know all

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Speaker 1: these things I know all of that against my will anyway.

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Speaker 1: So lamar Odam and Chloe Kadashin had a reality show

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Speaker 1: together for a time. He's now out of the fold,

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Speaker 1: but he can't let go. So he has admitted on

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Speaker 1: a podcast interview this week that he has bought a

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Speaker 1: custom sex doal that looks like Chloe. Here's what he said.

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Speaker 1: A sex doll that looks like your wife is about

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Speaker 1: mental health.

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Speaker 4: For me, it will yeah, for me, it would be Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's sick, but I think we're all a little awful,

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Speaker 1: a little weird.

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Speaker 4: Don't ever embrace your insanity. Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's awesome.

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Speaker 1: That's sex doll.

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Speaker 4: Dude, does it look like her? Don't make it to

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Speaker 4: look like her.

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Speaker 1: How would you feel, Jesse if your ex had a

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Speaker 1: custom made sex doal that looked like you?

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Speaker 3: So this is terrifying.

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Speaker 5: Firstly, this is when we've reached peak podcast is when

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Speaker 5: we've got lamar Otam talking about making a sex dollar

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Speaker 5: his X. I think probably it's enough information, but I

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Speaker 5: feel as though it's so exploitative, and it feels like

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Speaker 5: having a souvenir of some kind of exit. Feels like

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Speaker 5: your consent is no longer relevant because you then withdraw

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Speaker 5: the relationship and say you weren't a good partner or whatever,

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Speaker 5: and they can still have sex with a version of you.

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Speaker 5: Like that feels so sick to me.

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Speaker 2: I think he needs to talk to somebody. Don't you

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Speaker 2: think it is to talk to somebody?

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Speaker 1: I think it's really interesting, isn't it? The whole sex

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Speaker 1: doal idea these sort of life size sex doals that

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Speaker 1: you can customize, and you know they cost many, many

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Speaker 1: thousands of dollars. But it could be argued and I'm

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Speaker 1: not saying this because of course we're making a bit

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Speaker 1: light of it, but it is. It's a creepy thing

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Speaker 1: to think about, right, What's about ownership?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I guess it is about physical ownership because part of me,

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Speaker 1: when I was mulling this over, was thinking, how is

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Speaker 1: it different to maybe being sexual while looking at an

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Speaker 1: image or a video of someone.

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Speaker 5: Which is probably matter in a different way, right, Like

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Speaker 5: if you've sa police people's fantasies, Right, if they're thinking

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Speaker 5: about an X, well they're pleasuring themselves or having sex

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Speaker 5: with someone else, that's up to them.

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Speaker 2: But this is a different embodiment of it. Right.

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Speaker 1: Takes ai to ar whole other level.

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Speaker 5: Today there is a story about an Australian influencer that

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Speaker 5: we can't really talk about and you're probably seeing headlines

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Speaker 5: about it and do you either know a lot about

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Speaker 5: it or nothing at all. Here's what we can tell you,

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Speaker 5: and I'm going to explain the reasons why there's so

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Speaker 5: much we can't say too. A Queensland social media influencer

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Speaker 5: who is known for publishing videos about her child's illness

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Speaker 5: and surgeries on TikTok and Instagram, is being investigated by

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Speaker 5: police for child harm. According to the Australian Medical Staff,

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Speaker 5: raised concerns that she might have caused her toddler's unexplained illnesses.

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Speaker 5: Queensland Police have confirmed that officers have taken action and

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Speaker 5: an investigation has commenced. A spokes woman said police are

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Speaker 5: aware of reports of child harm and this is an

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Speaker 5: active investigation. It would be inappropriate to provide further comment

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Speaker 5: if you are wondering why details are scarce and why

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Speaker 5: we are not stating her name. That is for a

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Speaker 5: few reasons. The first is that no charges have been

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Speaker 5: laid and these are all allegations. We are not suggesting

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Speaker 5: that any of these claims are true, the investigation will

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Speaker 5: likely take some time. The second is due to the

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Speaker 5: age of the child involved. This case is especially sensitive

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Speaker 5: given a child has been placed in foster care and

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Speaker 5: the privacy of that child is of paramount importance.

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Speaker 3: Today, we're not.

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Speaker 5: Going to talk about that case specifically. Instead, we wanted

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Speaker 5: to unpack the rise of medi mums, and recently there

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Speaker 5: was an article in the Washington Post about this. It's

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Speaker 5: a corner of TikTok and Instagram where the mothers of

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Speaker 5: disabled and chronically ill children share their parenthood journeys. And

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Speaker 5: if you search the hashtag medical mum, you'll find videos

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Speaker 5: of mothers doing a day in the life, footage of

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Speaker 5: babies having their tracheotomy changed, or a trending song, and

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Speaker 5: it's got details of the child's disability displayed on screen.

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Speaker 5: Here's some of what you might find.

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Speaker 4: We're medical moms. We know how much is in a

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Speaker 4: syringe long after the numbers have worn off. We're medical moms.

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Speaker 4: Of course, we've spent major holidays in the hospital. Medical moms.

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Speaker 4: Of course we have every hospital department on speed dial.

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Speaker 4: We're medical moms. We can't just find a babysitter. We

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Speaker 4: have to find a nurse some with me and my treek.

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Speaker 4: For independent son to one of his doctor's appointments at

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Speaker 4: the children's hospital. I always have to have somebody right

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Speaker 4: in the back with him in case he needs to

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Speaker 4: be suctioned or something happens with his treek and he

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Speaker 4: needs immediate assistance.

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Speaker 5: I want to make it clear that in terms of

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Speaker 5: the allegations we referred to earlier, there is no community

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Speaker 5: that is feeling more distressed than medical mums. These are

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Speaker 5: mothers who dedicate their lives to caring for.

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Speaker 1: Sick kids and who are already doing it so tough.

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Speaker 3: It's the single worst heart maare go out to.

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Speaker 1: All the women and fathers, but mostly medical mom many

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Speaker 1: of whom will be part of the out loud community.

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Speaker 1: And I know you're going to get to it, JESSEI.

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Speaker 1: But one of the things that's so instructive about medical

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Speaker 1: mums and making content online, and to be clear, very

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Speaker 1: few of these parents monetize their content. That's not what

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Speaker 1: this is about. This is about your identity, which if

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Speaker 1: you have a child or someone in your life that

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Speaker 1: you are a care for, it does become a big

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Speaker 1: part of your identity because it dominates your life and

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Speaker 1: that idea of you can't be what you can't see,

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Speaker 1: which is not true. You can be it, but you

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Speaker 1: feel very very alone if you don't see any reflections

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Speaker 1: of the kind of life that you're living in the

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Speaker 1: world on me, and.

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Speaker 3: It's incredibly lonely.

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Speaker 5: And that's what I wanted to unpack because on the surface,

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Speaker 5: and I've seen a lot of these comments popping up

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Speaker 5: about what would possess a parent to film these moments

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Speaker 5: or to share them, And I wanted to talk to

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Speaker 5: you both about what the appeal is because I had

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Speaker 5: a grandmother who had an intellectually disabled daughter and then

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Speaker 5: an intellectually disabled grandchild who she cared for full time,

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Speaker 5: and one thing she spoke about was the profound loneliness

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Speaker 5: of it and the difficulty in finding community. Even the

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Speaker 5: school that those children had to go to. And this

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Speaker 5: was fifty years ago. For my auntie was a really

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Speaker 5: long way away, so it's not like you could establish

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Speaker 5: any sort of community where you could speak to parents

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Speaker 5: that were going through the same thing. Her day did

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Speaker 5: not look like anyone else's day, and the invisibility of that,

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Speaker 5: to feel like you and your child are invisible, the

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Speaker 5: only connection that you have is with medical professionals, which

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Speaker 5: would have been so difficult. And so I look at

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Speaker 5: some of these and I understand the impulse, and then

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Speaker 5: I see the development of community. I can definitely see

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Speaker 5: the use in that.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think everything that you guys have said is true.

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Speaker 2: You know, I know lots of medical moms, and nobody's

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Speaker 2: exploiting anybody. It's very much about being seen because if

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Speaker 2: you're on social media and it reflects so much of

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Speaker 2: our lives, all they are other people who are having

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Speaker 2: these wonderful family moments and their kids who are having

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Speaker 2: all these achievements at school, and everybody's going on family

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Speaker 2: holidays and everybody seems happy and healthy, and we all

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Speaker 2: know that's not true, like there's always a lot of

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Speaker 2: shit going on behind the scenes. You feel completely out

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Speaker 2: of that.

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Speaker 3: Your life is.

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Speaker 2: So different, and being able to form these communities is

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Speaker 2: life saving because if you've got a really sick child,

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Speaker 2: or a child with a chronic illness or a child

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Speaker 2: with the disability, very often after the first sort of

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Speaker 2: flurry of concern and support, people back away because it

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Speaker 2: is incredibly distressing to a lot of people to look

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Speaker 2: at sick children like it sounds so frivolous, but it's true, right,

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Speaker 2: and so they kind of back away and they don't

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Speaker 2: want to look. But if that's your life, you're seeing

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Speaker 2: your reality reflected in this content that's being shared. And

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Speaker 2: communities within closed Facebook groups are intensely helpful. I mean

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Speaker 2: I've found that myself on a very tiny scale when

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Speaker 2: I was first dealing with, you know, being the parent

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Speaker 2: of a neurodiverse kid. Going to those groups where everybody

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Speaker 2: in there understood what you were feeling and they had

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Speaker 2: tips and like, it was very very helpful and very

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Speaker 2: very validating. So I entirely see why medical moms are

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Speaker 2: making content about their lives and forming groups. The conflict

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Speaker 2: here seems to come and there is some legislation in

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Speaker 2: some parts of the world being formed around it is

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Speaker 2: if it's being monetized and if there are serious concerns

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Speaker 2: about privacy breach. Right now, the concerns about privacy breach

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Speaker 2: is not exclusive to this group of parents. The concerns

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Speaker 2: about privacy breach, it has to be said, is a

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Speaker 2: growing concern around anyone who shares images of their children

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Speaker 2: and any influencers, paid or otherwise who use a lot

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Speaker 2: of imagery of their kids We've discussed it before.

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Speaker 1: On the show, issues around consent.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's been legislation put in place in places

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Speaker 2: like California from pressure groups who are saying, we need

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Speaker 2: to put laws around this because it's new and we've

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Speaker 2: got to protect these kids. So that's not something that's

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Speaker 2: specific to this group of people.

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Speaker 1: But what is.

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Speaker 2: Obviously very concerning is if those things are colliding and

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Speaker 2: a child's illness or condition is being represented in maybe

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Speaker 2: an untrue way for monetary gain.

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Speaker 5: Or there's particularly vulnerable moments, and this is something that

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Speaker 5: in the Washington Post investigation, they spoke to a few children.

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Speaker 5: They're now adults, but when they were children, they felt

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Speaker 5: that their parents filmed.

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Speaker 3: Them at their most vulnerable moment.

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Speaker 5: So there was one woman who went by the name

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Speaker 5: of cam and she said that in the wake of

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Speaker 5: a really awful car accident, her mother filmed her injuries

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Speaker 5: preparation for a colonoscopy. It was that kind of stuff

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Speaker 5: that was put on the Internet. And she said that

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Speaker 5: there's a real disconnect sometimes in that the parent is

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Speaker 5: an experiencing the disability, and so in portraying it might

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Speaker 5: not understand the sensitivities. And then there was another child

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Speaker 5: who's now an adult, named Katriel Neapolis. She said that

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Speaker 5: she felt like parts of it, and again, this isn't

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Speaker 5: going to a medical appointment. This was pretty vulnerable stuff

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Speaker 5: that was shared. She was saying that it felt like

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Speaker 5: a nineteenth century freak show. They're her words, where able

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Speaker 5: bodied people gorked at her and it was sort of like,

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Speaker 5: looking at these instances, I think that their parents were

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Speaker 5: monetizing as well, which made them incredibly uncomfortable. But then,

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Speaker 5: on the other hand, and this is what an expert

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Speaker 5: said in the article, the complexity is that children can't

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Speaker 5: advocate for themselves. So you've got really rare genetic disorders.

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Speaker 5: You've got devastating disorders that need more publicity. Why do

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Speaker 5: they need more publicity Because publicity means funding forever for research,

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Speaker 5: whether it's The Project or Sunrise. They have always done

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Speaker 5: stories about this, about sick kids, And the reality is

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Speaker 5: I saw one recently of a mother whose child the

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Speaker 5: NDAs can't support whatever resources this child needs. And if

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Speaker 5: I was in that position, and if my child needed

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Speaker 5: treatment or they needed some sort of resource and I

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Speaker 5: couldn't afford it, I don't know what lengths I would

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Speaker 5: go to like I would probably be there gofund me

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Speaker 5: Like that's changed the game as well in terms of

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Speaker 5: being able to ask for assistance when we know that

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Speaker 5: disability and chronic illness can often have enormous financial ramifications.

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Speaker 1: And the other thing is that, again there's just no

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Speaker 1: blanket kind of approach you can take because toddlers and

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Speaker 1: little kids and being too young to consent is one thing.

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Speaker 1: Then you've got kids who are tweens and teens. And

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Speaker 1: one of my close friends is a medical mum and

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Speaker 1: her son's a social media star and he loves it.

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Speaker 1: Like it can be really isolating to be a kid

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Speaker 1: who is in a hospital a lot of the time

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Speaker 1: or who isn't able to go to school and making

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Speaker 1: content and being online and sharing that kind of information

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Speaker 1: about themselves. Firstly, try to stop a teenager or a

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Speaker 1: tween from doing that, and secondly, that's normalizing for them

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Speaker 1: as well and can pass the time.

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Speaker 2: And also, you know, with the most empathetic view on this,

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Speaker 2: it seems that there might be some dark corners of

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Speaker 2: this story, right, But the parents have kids who are

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Speaker 2: unwell living with serious disabilities are doing it incredibly tough,

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Speaker 2: as we've said, right, why should they not get a

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Speaker 2: little piece of that joy and validation that we all

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Speaker 2: find on social media? Right, it's easy to sneer at it,

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Speaker 2: but having people tell you you're doing a great job,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, that looks so difficult, or you being

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Speaker 2: able to make a bit of a funny joke, because

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Speaker 2: we all know that when you're in difficult situations and

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Speaker 2: with other people who are in those situations, you turn

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Speaker 2: to like a sort of dark humor about it. Why

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Speaker 2: should you be disco from that joy and validation and

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Speaker 2: community that other people are finding on the internet, because well,

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Speaker 2: you shouldn't be making content about that. It's too serious,

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Speaker 2: it's too bad, it's too this, it's too that. It's

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Speaker 2: like because we complain, you're allowed to have some joy too.

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Speaker 1: We complained about the sanitized version of life that we

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Speaker 1: see the highlight redia.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: So I think when you look at if social media

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Speaker 1: is and of course it's not, but if it's in

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Speaker 1: any way a reflection of actual life, shouldn't it have

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Speaker 1: different aspects of life? And not all of it is

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Speaker 1: good news and not all of it is easy. And

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Speaker 1: I also, from a empathetic point of view, like even

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Speaker 1: that little grab that we played earlier, I learned something

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Speaker 1: like medical mums can't get babysitters, we have to book nurses,

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Speaker 1: and it's like I never thought of that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, For most of history, we have had absolutely no

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Speaker 5: idea how peop with chronic illness and disability actually live

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Speaker 5: because it's a rule that you must be invisible, and

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Speaker 5: so this visibility is in itself suberssive.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a positive thing. It's a positive thing

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Speaker 1: for women who are in the vast majority the ones

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Speaker 1: who are the cares for these kids. And there will

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Speaker 1: always be again not referencing this story in particular coming

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Speaker 1: out of Queensland, but there will always be exceptions to

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Speaker 1: the rule. There will always be dark corners of everything.

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Speaker 1: But I think that it would be a tragedy if

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Speaker 1: we were to let cynicism shut down what is a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a lifeline for some of the most

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Speaker 1: vulnerable people in our community.

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Speaker 2: We can to be very snary about the idea that

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Speaker 2: we get validation from likes and comments on social media,

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Speaker 2: but for people who aren't getting very much positive validation

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Speaker 2: in their lives every day, I don't think that's such

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Speaker 2: a bad thing.

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Speaker 5: Out louders as we said, this story about the Australian

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Speaker 5: influencer and the allegations around her is still unfolding and

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Speaker 5: there is a lot we can't say, and because of this,

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Speaker 5: it's not really something we can discuss in the Facebook

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Speaker 5: group for the safety and privacy of the people involved.

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Speaker 5: So if you comment or if links are being declined,

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Speaker 5: then just FYI.

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Speaker 1: That is why, in a moment, why everyone is telling

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Speaker 1: celebrities to sit down.

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Speaker 4: Mother me out loud.

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Speaker 2: Eva Longoria has left America, Trump is in, and the

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Speaker 2: Desperate Housewife star is out. Last week, she told Mary Claire,

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Speaker 2: if he keeps his promises, it's going to be a

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Speaker 2: scary place. It was like, does my vote really matter?

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Speaker 2: Am I really making a difference? I truly believed in

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Speaker 2: my soul that the best person wins, and then it

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Speaker 2: happened and I was like, oh wait, the best person

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Speaker 2: doesn't win. I get to escape and go somewhere. Most

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Speaker 2: Americans aren't so lucky. They're going to be stuck in

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Speaker 2: this dystopian country, and my anxiety and sadness is for

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Speaker 2: them now. Eva, who was born in Texas but now

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Speaker 2: splits her time between Mexico City and Spain, says that

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Speaker 2: actually she's been living out of America for a while

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Speaker 2: now because also her jobs are there, like she gets

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Speaker 2: more jobs elsewhere. But here's the thing, and it's something

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Speaker 2: that seems to be even more certain than what the

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Speaker 2: next four years is going to throw up. When it

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Speaker 2: comes to the next election, we will not be hearing

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Speaker 2: about whose celebrities want you to vote for. Celebrity endorsements

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Speaker 2: were a very big deal in the recent U S election.

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Speaker 2: Democrats liked to say that they had all the good ones,

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Speaker 2: all the big ones, and they did. They had Taylor Swift,

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Speaker 2: they had Beyonce, they had Lady Gaga, they had Bad Bunny,

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Speaker 2: they had Oprah, they had every single actor in Hollywood

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Speaker 2: from George Clooney down. It would actually take you less

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Speaker 2: time to say which celebrities did not come out for Kamala.

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Speaker 2: But wait a minute, I can't tell you a couple.

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Speaker 2: Kim Kardashian, Paris Hilton, and a host of big name

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Speaker 2: influences were called out in a piece in New York

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Speaker 2: Magazines the Cut after the election for staying suspiciously quiet

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Speaker 2: in Invernie commas about the election result.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that interesting when we were looking at this to

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Speaker 1: talk about it today. What jumped out to me was

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Speaker 1: how different Australia is, Like this idea that you have

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Speaker 1: to declare and the politicization of selectbrities just doesn't happen here.

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Speaker 5: Even the term endorse, like an Australian celebrity wouldn't say

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Speaker 5: I am endorsing Da Da Da.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine Kylie Minogue turning up to the launch

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Speaker 1: of Albo's campaign And is that because Scottie Cam going

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Speaker 1: to support Peter Dutton and posting about it on Instagram?

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Speaker 5: And is that because we have compulsory voting, the pushing

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Speaker 5: people out to go and vote thing isn't as much.

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Speaker 5: Maybe there's more of a sense that people will vote

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Speaker 5: and they'll kind of, you know, look at the policies

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Speaker 5: and do what they want to do. Anyway, even I

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Speaker 5: was listening to Q and A on Monday night and

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Speaker 5: they were saying that we quite like the idea that

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Speaker 5: all the parties get the same amount of money to

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Speaker 5: do their political ads oras in the US exactly, so

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Speaker 5: it's like you can spend a billion dollars.

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Speaker 3: Australia is horrified by that.

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Speaker 5: We see it as an enormous waste of money because

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Speaker 5: we've got compulsory voting, so we don't need as much.

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Speaker 1: Kind of it's different, like you can say, and in

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Speaker 1: past years celebrities have said enroll and get out to vote,

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Speaker 1: But in America, certainly in our living memory, it's become

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Speaker 1: part of your brand, whether you're a Democrat or a Republican,

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Speaker 1: and it's kind of like all the cool kids are

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Speaker 1: Democrats and like Kid Rock is a Republican.

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Speaker 5: Well see, I disagree with you there. I think that

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Speaker 5: what Trump did, and in fact, what we might see

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Speaker 5: politicians increasingly do, is extend and broaden what they see

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Speaker 5: as a celebrity. So if you go to the YouTube sphere,

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Speaker 5: or you go to the tiktoks, fear or even the

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Speaker 5: Joe Rogan, who is incredibly famous because of the fracturing

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Speaker 5: of fame, who is incredibly famous and who has influenced

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Speaker 5: I don't think necessarily the same things like one hundred percent,

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Speaker 5: Who who needs a celebrity telling you who they vote

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Speaker 5: for when you've got podcasters.

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Speaker 2: But the thing is, clearly, until right now, everybody thought

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Speaker 2: you did. Because remember we spent a long time discussing

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Speaker 2: whether or not Taylor Swift was going to come out

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Speaker 2: for Kamala, and once you did, everyone went like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's going to change the dial, bad Bunny and lower

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Speaker 2: so much commentary saying that he might be the one

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Speaker 2: person who could really move the needle in Puerto Rican

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Speaker 2: communities after the derogatory comments that Trump's team had been

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Speaker 2: making about that community.

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Speaker 3: None of it worked at all.

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Speaker 2: In fact, there's a very large school of thought that's

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Speaker 2: like it harmed.

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Speaker 1: Because when Jennifer Niston came out after Jadie Vance said

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Speaker 1: about single cat ladies, and it was like, oh, it's

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Speaker 1: all over now, I's picked a fight with America's sweetheart.

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Speaker 2: But I have a little bit of sympathy for the

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Speaker 2: celebrities right because they're being told at the minute that

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Speaker 2: it's probably their fault. You know, Coumla lost because no

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Speaker 2: one wants to hear from you elites, blah blah blah.

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Speaker 2: For some reason, we don't see Joe Rogan as an elite,

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Speaker 2: even though it's probably richer than Northern put together. We

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Speaker 2: don't want to hear from all you elite people, never

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Speaker 2: mind how rich Donald Trump is.

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Speaker 1: You are part of this.

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Speaker 2: But at the same time, we are always shouting at

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Speaker 2: public figures to tell us what they think right. So

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Speaker 2: the story in the cut that was like, oh, why

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Speaker 2: hasn't Kim Kardashian declared how she feels about politics? What

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Speaker 2: a trader is? The kind of vibe And look at

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Speaker 2: all these shallow influencers who are still just posting about

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Speaker 2: their lipsticks and they're what I had for lunch today

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Speaker 2: instead of that the world is ending, They're getting a

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Speaker 2: lot of shit, and we're endlessly making, you know, demands

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Speaker 2: of public people to tell us what they think. But

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Speaker 2: then when they do, we go, how embarrassing for you?

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Speaker 2: Why do you think we care what you think? And

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Speaker 2: that seems to put the influence in a really tricky position.

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Speaker 1: Can you win it?

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Speaker 5: The celebrities that came out did nothing to challenge the

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Speaker 5: Democrat brand or the Democrat problem of being seen as

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Speaker 5: elitist or authoritarian, like those things which are thrown at them.

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Speaker 5: To then have a whole lot of really rich people,

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Speaker 5: people who don't even live in America all the time

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Speaker 5: come out and say I'm voting for Trump. I've never

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Speaker 5: had my position swayed by a celebrity on something like this,

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Speaker 5: because the average American is thinking, your life doesn't look

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Speaker 5: like mine, You're not impacted by the same thing.

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Speaker 1: It used to be that a celebrity. Hence the reason

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Speaker 1: that advertisers and big brands would always pay celebrity tens

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Speaker 1: of millions, hundreds of millions of dollars to endorse their car,

436
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Speaker 1: their coffee. That is the original influences.

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Speaker 3: Because it was mistakes.

438
00:22:22,767 --> 00:22:26,367
Speaker 1: It's just whoever they stood next to, the brand equity

439
00:22:26,407 --> 00:22:30,047
Speaker 1: that they had as a celebrity would shine onto that car,

440
00:22:30,087 --> 00:22:33,527
Speaker 1: that coffee, that politician. But what's interesting is that, you know,

441
00:22:33,567 --> 00:22:35,967
Speaker 1: remember it was all about I'm with her with Hillary

442
00:22:36,007 --> 00:22:39,207
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, and then this is such deja vous

443
00:22:39,247 --> 00:22:41,927
Speaker 1: for me because after that it was said, again, oh,

444
00:22:42,127 --> 00:22:46,087
Speaker 1: that didn't work because Trump had nobody, So he's been forced.

445
00:22:46,247 --> 00:22:48,407
Speaker 1: I'd take what you say, Jesse, in terms of he's

446
00:22:48,407 --> 00:22:51,367
Speaker 1: gone and found podcasters and other people and whold Hogan.

447
00:22:51,767 --> 00:22:54,407
Speaker 1: That's because he couldn't get anyone right, because you would

448
00:22:54,447 --> 00:22:57,647
Speaker 1: be shunned from Hollywood if you stood next to Trump

449
00:22:57,687 --> 00:23:00,447
Speaker 1: and said, yeah, I'm with him. But so it all

450
00:23:00,487 --> 00:23:03,087
Speaker 1: happened after Hillary. She had all the celebrities, and then

451
00:23:03,087 --> 00:23:05,927
Speaker 1: everybody went. When it was the twenty twenty campaign, I

452
00:23:05,927 --> 00:23:08,367
Speaker 1: was reading a lot about that and Joe Biden's campaign

453
00:23:08,767 --> 00:23:12,887
Speaker 1: was like, Hey, celebrities, that didn't work. We're having no celebrities.

454
00:23:12,967 --> 00:23:15,047
Speaker 1: Just don't please, don't say anything, please don't come out

455
00:23:15,047 --> 00:23:17,447
Speaker 1: on social media. And then somehow all of that was

456
00:23:17,487 --> 00:23:21,087
Speaker 1: forgotten again in the rush of excitement when he stubbed

457
00:23:21,087 --> 00:23:25,687
Speaker 1: aside and Kamla took the nomination. And then suddenly on

458
00:23:25,767 --> 00:23:28,927
Speaker 1: the night and again this isn't the reason why she lost,

459
00:23:28,967 --> 00:23:31,927
Speaker 1: but the night before the election, it was like the

460
00:23:31,967 --> 00:23:35,247
Speaker 1: big concert and Katy Perry was there, and Gaga singing

461
00:23:35,287 --> 00:23:38,727
Speaker 1: and crying in a piano, and Oprah and Beyonce and

462
00:23:38,807 --> 00:23:42,807
Speaker 1: j Loo and interestingly the only people who were kind

463
00:23:42,807 --> 00:23:45,847
Speaker 1: of also conspicuous by their absence. I don't know if

464
00:23:45,847 --> 00:23:49,087
Speaker 1: they're in this article, Megan and Harry. I wonder because

465
00:23:49,087 --> 00:23:52,007
Speaker 1: they would have wanted to be on that bandwagon. Sorry,

466
00:23:52,007 --> 00:23:54,567
Speaker 1: that's cynical. They would have wanted to express their support.

467
00:23:55,247 --> 00:23:58,367
Speaker 1: I imagine they would have said, hey, we're available, and

468
00:23:58,407 --> 00:23:59,687
Speaker 1: they would have been told.

469
00:24:00,767 --> 00:24:04,247
Speaker 5: You know, it's funny, right, there's cultural cachet involved in

470
00:24:04,487 --> 00:24:09,047
Speaker 5: having all of those people on a stage. But the analysis,

471
00:24:09,727 --> 00:24:13,527
Speaker 5: well what culture like? I think that that's the analysis

472
00:24:13,527 --> 00:24:15,647
Speaker 5: I keep reading is you are the dominant culture, and

473
00:24:15,647 --> 00:24:17,847
Speaker 5: we are voting against that. So all you're doing is

474
00:24:17,847 --> 00:24:22,087
Speaker 5: reinforcing what we don't want. I also think that we

475
00:24:22,127 --> 00:24:25,487
Speaker 5: have never had more people telling us what to think

476
00:24:25,527 --> 00:24:27,327
Speaker 5: and how to think. I get it on my TikTok,

477
00:24:27,327 --> 00:24:28,847
Speaker 5: I get it on my Instagram. I get it from

478
00:24:28,887 --> 00:24:31,927
Speaker 5: people that like, we've on this podcast or such a

479
00:24:31,967 --> 00:24:35,847
Speaker 5: politicized moment that when a celebrity comes out, it's like

480
00:24:36,487 --> 00:24:39,807
Speaker 5: this incredible fatigue. But then I understand the bind of

481
00:24:39,847 --> 00:24:44,007
Speaker 5: the celebrity silence is violence. We've heard that, and if

482
00:24:44,047 --> 00:24:46,487
Speaker 5: you do not endorse, if you do not state your

483
00:24:46,527 --> 00:24:48,807
Speaker 5: opinion on something, it will be written for you. I

484
00:24:48,847 --> 00:24:50,247
Speaker 5: saw this in the comments of everything.

485
00:24:50,247 --> 00:24:52,407
Speaker 2: It was like and it happened to Taylor Swift once,

486
00:24:52,527 --> 00:24:54,807
Speaker 2: like before she did come out and start telling everyone

487
00:24:54,847 --> 00:24:57,487
Speaker 2: she was a Democrat. The reason that she did really

488
00:24:57,527 --> 00:24:59,207
Speaker 2: is that because as a person with her roots and

489
00:24:59,327 --> 00:25:02,007
Speaker 2: country music, everyone was assuming what her politics were and

490
00:25:02,007 --> 00:25:04,047
Speaker 2: that was infuriating and she was like, that is not

491
00:25:04,087 --> 00:25:05,167
Speaker 2: what my politics.

492
00:25:04,807 --> 00:25:06,167
Speaker 3: Were, which I want to throw that out.

493
00:25:06,167 --> 00:25:09,047
Speaker 5: The idea that silence means that either you're complicit with

494
00:25:09,327 --> 00:25:12,567
Speaker 5: thing you're ashamed of, is so so wrong. I mean

495
00:25:12,607 --> 00:25:15,767
Speaker 5: silence can mean a million different things. But if you've

496
00:25:15,847 --> 00:25:18,167
Speaker 5: chosen not to speak about something, you might just not

497
00:25:18,287 --> 00:25:20,007
Speaker 5: think that your voice is helpful on this.

498
00:25:20,207 --> 00:25:22,287
Speaker 1: Don't you think it's interesting in Australia though, because I

499
00:25:22,367 --> 00:25:25,607
Speaker 1: keep coming back to why it's different here, it's seen

500
00:25:25,647 --> 00:25:28,367
Speaker 1: as no one else's business. It's seen as something really

501
00:25:28,407 --> 00:25:31,727
Speaker 1: private and personal. Who you vote for? Like, I don't know.

502
00:25:32,167 --> 00:25:33,887
Speaker 1: I think I know who you guys vote for. But

503
00:25:33,967 --> 00:25:36,447
Speaker 1: I can ask someone anything, do you have a vibrator?

504
00:25:36,847 --> 00:25:40,687
Speaker 1: But asking someone who are you voting for? Even I

505
00:25:40,767 --> 00:25:43,727
Speaker 1: know that that's a line that in Australia I wouldn't cross.

506
00:25:44,127 --> 00:25:48,447
Speaker 5: Yeah, we are having as well, bigger conversations about and

507
00:25:48,487 --> 00:25:51,127
Speaker 5: I think that this is resistance I'm feeling within Australia

508
00:25:51,527 --> 00:25:55,167
Speaker 5: we've had, whether it's referendums or plebiscites, there is this

509
00:25:55,287 --> 00:25:57,327
Speaker 5: resistance to like I don't want my bank telling me

510
00:25:57,407 --> 00:25:59,047
Speaker 5: how to vote. I don't want my football team telling

511
00:25:59,087 --> 00:26:01,367
Speaker 5: me how to vote. I don't want my shoe brand

512
00:26:01,407 --> 00:26:04,127
Speaker 5: telling me how to vote. We don't like the idea

513
00:26:04,447 --> 00:26:07,847
Speaker 5: that everything is political. We want spaces that aren't.

514
00:26:08,287 --> 00:26:11,567
Speaker 2: I agree, But to explain how we got to a

515
00:26:11,607 --> 00:26:14,007
Speaker 2: place where everybody thinks that they do have to nail

516
00:26:14,007 --> 00:26:16,527
Speaker 2: their colors to the mast. I think culture moves quickly, right,

517
00:26:16,647 --> 00:26:19,607
Speaker 2: especially at the moment. We used to be very irritated

518
00:26:19,607 --> 00:26:21,407
Speaker 2: by people who had just shown us their handbags and

519
00:26:21,447 --> 00:26:23,647
Speaker 2: their kitchens and their lipsticks, and being like, why aren't

520
00:26:23,687 --> 00:26:25,167
Speaker 2: you using your platform for good?

521
00:26:25,207 --> 00:26:25,407
Speaker 3: Yeah?

522
00:26:25,447 --> 00:26:28,247
Speaker 2: Right, shine your light on a cause that matters to you,

523
00:26:28,567 --> 00:26:31,887
Speaker 2: especially women, Yeah, especially women. But also you know, we

524
00:26:32,087 --> 00:26:34,287
Speaker 2: demanded that level of service because it was like seeing

525
00:26:34,287 --> 00:26:36,207
Speaker 2: as paying back almost we give you our money to

526
00:26:36,207 --> 00:26:37,807
Speaker 2: go and watch your movies, to listen to your music,

527
00:26:37,847 --> 00:26:40,527
Speaker 2: to go to your concerts, whatever, what are you doing? Like,

528
00:26:40,567 --> 00:26:42,247
Speaker 2: what are you doing with that? We don't just want

529
00:26:42,247 --> 00:26:43,847
Speaker 2: to be making you rich for no reason. So that

530
00:26:43,967 --> 00:26:46,607
Speaker 2: was a real push. And also, to be fair, celebrities

531
00:26:46,647 --> 00:26:49,247
Speaker 2: have always had to do that. They choose charities to support,

532
00:26:49,487 --> 00:26:53,367
Speaker 2: they're literally shining their spotlight on things that matter to them.

533
00:26:53,447 --> 00:26:55,807
Speaker 2: So if we live in a world where that's what

534
00:26:55,847 --> 00:26:58,287
Speaker 2: we've always expected people to do, when they seem to

535
00:26:58,327 --> 00:27:02,727
Speaker 2: be keeping their spotlight on them, that felt icky, you know,

536
00:27:02,767 --> 00:27:04,287
Speaker 2: and we were like, but can't you see all the

537
00:27:04,287 --> 00:27:06,687
Speaker 2: problems that need fixing and your voice could help fix them?

538
00:27:06,847 --> 00:27:11,207
Speaker 2: The problem is now we're just oh saturated, as you've said, Jesse,

539
00:27:11,327 --> 00:27:13,527
Speaker 2: with everybody telling us all the time what they think,

540
00:27:13,567 --> 00:27:16,447
Speaker 2: what they care about, their stance on everything. We're just like,

541
00:27:17,087 --> 00:27:19,767
Speaker 2: shush and now we're annoyed. Who do you think that

542
00:27:19,887 --> 00:27:22,647
Speaker 2: you are to tell me? And I think that it

543
00:27:22,687 --> 00:27:24,807
Speaker 2: can be a bit whiplashy probably. The other thing that's

544
00:27:24,847 --> 00:27:26,807
Speaker 2: really different, Mere, and you've already touched on this, really

545
00:27:27,567 --> 00:27:30,847
Speaker 2: is the point of the celebrities at all those democrat things,

546
00:27:31,487 --> 00:27:34,047
Speaker 2: especially that not so public facing things, is to attract

547
00:27:34,047 --> 00:27:37,967
Speaker 2: donors and raise money. Right, So Clooney and Julia Roberts

548
00:27:37,967 --> 00:27:41,687
Speaker 2: and all those things having democratic functions in La for

549
00:27:41,807 --> 00:27:43,927
Speaker 2: rich people to come together. They will come if they

550
00:27:43,927 --> 00:27:45,487
Speaker 2: know Clooney's going to be there and they might get

551
00:27:45,527 --> 00:27:47,407
Speaker 2: to shake his hand. They'll come if they know that

552
00:27:47,447 --> 00:27:50,327
Speaker 2: Gaga's the act performing at halftime, like you know, in

553
00:27:50,367 --> 00:27:53,247
Speaker 2: between Entree and Maine or whatever, and you raise more

554
00:27:53,247 --> 00:27:55,767
Speaker 2: money and all those things. So again, our political system

555
00:27:56,167 --> 00:27:59,807
Speaker 2: working so differently protects us to a point. They are

556
00:27:59,807 --> 00:28:03,287
Speaker 2: still obviously donors to major parties, etc. Protects us to

557
00:28:03,327 --> 00:28:05,287
Speaker 2: a point against having to do that.

558
00:28:05,687 --> 00:28:07,487
Speaker 1: And you used to get more cut through you know,

559
00:28:07,567 --> 00:28:11,327
Speaker 1: the biggest media cut through through of anything in this campaign,

560
00:28:11,367 --> 00:28:15,647
Speaker 1: it's been measured. The first thing was Joe Rogan. The

561
00:28:15,727 --> 00:28:20,807
Speaker 1: second thing was Donald Trump cosplaying working at McDonald's. They're

562
00:28:20,807 --> 00:28:23,127
Speaker 1: the two things that got the most cut through, and

563
00:28:23,287 --> 00:28:26,367
Speaker 1: the third was call Her Daddy, And everything else was

564
00:28:26,487 --> 00:28:29,807
Speaker 1: like crickets and daylight. But I think the other reason

565
00:28:29,807 --> 00:28:33,527
Speaker 1: that it's become harder, and I wonder if we'll see

566
00:28:33,567 --> 00:28:37,087
Speaker 1: celebrities back off politics for other reasons, is that now

567
00:28:37,127 --> 00:28:40,007
Speaker 1: that it's so polarized. It used to be like I

568
00:28:40,007 --> 00:28:43,567
Speaker 1: grew up with one of my parents voting for one

569
00:28:43,687 --> 00:28:47,687
Speaker 1: party and another parent voting for another party, and they

570
00:28:47,767 --> 00:28:51,047
Speaker 1: used to have sort of political arguments. But now it's

571
00:28:51,087 --> 00:28:53,847
Speaker 1: become if you don't vote for who I vote for,

572
00:28:53,927 --> 00:28:57,527
Speaker 1: your evil. If you don't agree with what I believe in,

573
00:28:58,087 --> 00:29:00,487
Speaker 1: you're evil. It's not just that you're different. And so

574
00:29:00,647 --> 00:29:04,447
Speaker 1: when you've got these big celebrities, I think that there's

575
00:29:04,487 --> 00:29:07,927
Speaker 1: also a big reality check for them when you look

576
00:29:07,967 --> 00:29:10,847
Speaker 1: at what's just happened. It has been a landslide for

577
00:29:10,927 --> 00:29:14,367
Speaker 1: Trump and that well over half of the country thinks

578
00:29:14,407 --> 00:29:19,327
Speaker 1: he's great. If you're positioned as saying basket of deplorables.

579
00:29:19,927 --> 00:29:25,367
Speaker 1: I'm with her, he's evil. Suddenly your box office, your

580
00:29:25,447 --> 00:29:29,647
Speaker 1: album sales, your ticket sales are all impacted. And I

581
00:29:29,727 --> 00:29:33,887
Speaker 1: know that sounds really craven and really materialistic and capitalistic,

582
00:29:33,967 --> 00:29:37,247
Speaker 1: but we live in a capitalistic society and they also

583
00:29:37,287 --> 00:29:38,047
Speaker 1: are business people.

584
00:29:38,087 --> 00:29:40,527
Speaker 2: Well that's why Kim Kardashian doesn't tell you. Yeah, so

585
00:29:40,567 --> 00:29:43,287
Speaker 2: I'm sure that Kim Kardashian has her opinions. For example,

586
00:29:43,487 --> 00:29:46,887
Speaker 2: and we know that her children, because their dad's Kade West,

587
00:29:47,167 --> 00:29:49,327
Speaker 2: were actually got in a bit of trouble for posting

588
00:29:49,367 --> 00:29:52,487
Speaker 2: their own trumpy kind of propert gandery the.

589
00:29:52,367 --> 00:29:53,047
Speaker 1: Age of eight.

590
00:29:53,167 --> 00:29:55,207
Speaker 2: But anyway, are we owed.

591
00:29:55,567 --> 00:29:56,767
Speaker 1: No, Well, that's the thing.

592
00:29:56,807 --> 00:29:59,687
Speaker 2: But Kim Kardashian is a savvy whatever you think about her,

593
00:29:59,727 --> 00:30:02,007
Speaker 2: she's a very savvy woman. And she will work with

594
00:30:02,087 --> 00:30:05,287
Speaker 2: who will help her get things done. So she famously

595
00:30:05,327 --> 00:30:07,087
Speaker 2: went and visited Trump when he was the president to

596
00:30:07,167 --> 00:30:10,727
Speaker 2: talk about prison reform, and she so when and spoke

597
00:30:10,767 --> 00:30:14,087
Speaker 2: to Vice President Kamala Harris about that too. She will

598
00:30:14,127 --> 00:30:17,487
Speaker 2: work with the system that will get her cause the most.

599
00:30:17,567 --> 00:30:20,007
Speaker 2: You know, So she's not a nail your flag to

600
00:30:20,007 --> 00:30:22,647
Speaker 2: the post kind of person. But she also just didn't vote,

601
00:30:23,047 --> 00:30:25,967
Speaker 2: but well, I'm sure she probably did. But also I

602
00:30:26,007 --> 00:30:30,447
Speaker 2: think she's thinking in a more transactional way about politics

603
00:30:30,527 --> 00:30:32,687
Speaker 2: rather than an emotional way, and it seems like most

604
00:30:32,767 --> 00:30:35,927
Speaker 2: Americans are feeling exactly the same way. She's probably more

605
00:30:35,967 --> 00:30:39,647
Speaker 2: in touch with how the most Americans are feeling than Clooney.

606
00:30:39,767 --> 00:30:41,967
Speaker 5: So there's a great quote in The Guardian that basically

607
00:30:41,967 --> 00:30:44,767
Speaker 5: said a celebrity endorsing a candidate is much more likely

608
00:30:44,847 --> 00:30:47,047
Speaker 5: to get people to change their minds about a celebrity

609
00:30:47,167 --> 00:30:49,607
Speaker 5: than it is to change their mind about a candidate, which.

610
00:30:49,367 --> 00:30:53,447
Speaker 1: Is very true. Well, thanks for the feedback. Great, I'd

611
00:30:53,447 --> 00:30:54,287
Speaker 1: love your feedback.

612
00:30:54,887 --> 00:30:58,887
Speaker 3: What a gift, guys, I have some feedback.

613
00:30:58,967 --> 00:31:01,127
Speaker 5: We know that feedback is a gift, and my feedback

614
00:31:01,327 --> 00:31:04,007
Speaker 5: is for the iPhone, but also for Facebook, which I

615
00:31:04,007 --> 00:31:08,647
Speaker 5: guess is our good friend Mark Zuckerberg. I want them

616
00:31:08,727 --> 00:31:11,647
Speaker 5: to stop with what can only be described as an

617
00:31:11,687 --> 00:31:15,727
Speaker 5: assault of memories. I don't want to be thrown a memory.

618
00:31:15,847 --> 00:31:18,247
Speaker 5: Every time I open my phone I'm shown some picture

619
00:31:18,247 --> 00:31:20,927
Speaker 5: from two years ago. I'm not emotionally prepared. It's the

620
00:31:20,967 --> 00:31:24,607
Speaker 5: same with Facebook. I'm served a status from twelve years ago,

621
00:31:24,687 --> 00:31:27,167
Speaker 5: an image with someone I'm no longer friends with How

622
00:31:27,167 --> 00:31:27,847
Speaker 5: do you feel.

623
00:31:27,607 --> 00:31:31,887
Speaker 1: About when people send you their memories if you're in them?

624
00:31:31,927 --> 00:31:35,967
Speaker 5: Meny, at least that's real, at least that's a human connection.

625
00:31:36,127 --> 00:31:38,327
Speaker 1: No, I mean that they just take a screenshot that

626
00:31:38,367 --> 00:31:41,247
Speaker 1: they've also been served by their phone or by Facebook.

627
00:31:41,927 --> 00:31:46,327
Speaker 3: This I will allow that like that. It's the robot

628
00:31:46,327 --> 00:31:46,767
Speaker 3: of it all.

629
00:31:47,007 --> 00:31:49,327
Speaker 5: It's the fact that I am just trying to check

630
00:31:49,367 --> 00:31:52,607
Speaker 5: the time, and I am delivered a slideshow of my

631
00:31:52,687 --> 00:31:55,447
Speaker 5: dead dog at seven twenty two am on a Monday.

632
00:31:55,727 --> 00:31:57,047
Speaker 3: I'm not emotionally prepared.

633
00:31:56,807 --> 00:31:58,167
Speaker 1: For you to trigger warning love.

634
00:31:58,327 --> 00:31:59,407
Speaker 3: I hate it. I hate it.

635
00:31:59,767 --> 00:32:03,807
Speaker 5: And then apparently everyone says, gody settings, Gody settings are

636
00:32:03,807 --> 00:32:04,407
Speaker 5: something you can do.

637
00:32:04,647 --> 00:32:08,407
Speaker 1: Oh, that's I feel that that's not okay. I have

638
00:32:08,407 --> 00:32:10,567
Speaker 1: a feedback for set. They're too complicated.

639
00:32:10,727 --> 00:32:12,927
Speaker 5: They are, and I don't want to be changed on

640
00:32:12,967 --> 00:32:14,687
Speaker 5: my settings. I just want to bitch about my phone

641
00:32:14,727 --> 00:32:15,367
Speaker 5: and what it does.

642
00:32:15,607 --> 00:32:18,407
Speaker 1: Oh I'd like to change my settings. But my feedback, Yeah,

643
00:32:19,367 --> 00:32:21,607
Speaker 1: have you ever tried to change any settings in Facebook?

644
00:32:21,727 --> 00:32:22,207
Speaker 1: Good luck?

645
00:32:22,407 --> 00:32:24,967
Speaker 5: Okay, Well, Deanna, apparently what you meant to do is

646
00:32:25,007 --> 00:32:28,087
Speaker 5: go to settings, Apps, Photos and then you turn off

647
00:32:28,567 --> 00:32:29,367
Speaker 5: show featured.

648
00:32:29,447 --> 00:32:30,607
Speaker 1: Oh that's photos.

649
00:32:30,727 --> 00:32:30,887
Speaker 5: Yeah.

650
00:32:30,927 --> 00:32:32,927
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm old enough now though that I like it.

651
00:32:32,967 --> 00:32:34,687
Speaker 2: When I get sent a picture of my one of

652
00:32:34,727 --> 00:32:37,047
Speaker 2: my kids really little, I always screenshot it and send

653
00:32:37,087 --> 00:32:39,887
Speaker 2: it to Brandon. I'm look, I.

654
00:32:39,807 --> 00:32:41,247
Speaker 1: Feel that to punch into my hand.

655
00:32:41,887 --> 00:32:44,607
Speaker 3: It's sack. I don't like the passing of time. I

656
00:32:44,607 --> 00:32:45,287
Speaker 3: don't like it.

657
00:32:45,727 --> 00:32:49,407
Speaker 2: After the break, we unpack the protective hag era and

658
00:32:49,447 --> 00:32:51,527
Speaker 2: whether you have one in your life or maybe it's you.

659
00:32:53,807 --> 00:32:56,527
Speaker 1: Every Tuesday and Thursday we drop new segments of Mom

660
00:32:56,607 --> 00:32:58,407
Speaker 1: and Me Are Out Loud just for Mum and Me

661
00:32:58,487 --> 00:33:01,007
Speaker 1: as subscribers follow the link in the show notes to

662
00:33:01,007 --> 00:33:03,607
Speaker 1: get your daily dose about Loud and a big thank

663
00:33:03,647 --> 00:33:15,447
Speaker 1: you to everyone who is already subscribed. Friends, you may

664
00:33:15,487 --> 00:33:18,287
Speaker 1: not want to classify yourself as a maiden, a mother,

665
00:33:18,527 --> 00:33:21,887
Speaker 1: or a crone famously the three ages of a woman.

666
00:33:22,407 --> 00:33:25,647
Speaker 1: But what about protective hag There's a newsletter by a

667
00:33:25,647 --> 00:33:28,927
Speaker 1: writer called Puna Bell called as I was Saying, and

668
00:33:28,967 --> 00:33:31,647
Speaker 1: I received it this week, and it is about her

669
00:33:31,727 --> 00:33:35,367
Speaker 1: protective hag era. And she tells his story about going

670
00:33:35,487 --> 00:33:37,567
Speaker 1: to a barbecue with a bunch of people were there

671
00:33:37,647 --> 00:33:40,487
Speaker 1: and she said there was sort of two groups of

672
00:33:40,607 --> 00:33:44,367
Speaker 1: conversations that she was part of She said, either she

673
00:33:44,447 --> 00:33:47,127
Speaker 1: was being asked for advice around certain things, and the

674
00:33:47,207 --> 00:33:50,327
Speaker 1: dynamic was like she as the older person advising a

675
00:33:50,367 --> 00:33:54,167
Speaker 1: younger person she's in her forties poona. Or she was

676
00:33:54,207 --> 00:33:58,887
Speaker 1: sort of overhearing passively the conversation take place from the

677
00:33:58,927 --> 00:34:03,607
Speaker 1: women around her and thinking, Oh, this is so familiar.

678
00:34:03,767 --> 00:34:05,967
Speaker 1: I've heard this so many times before. They were talking

679
00:34:06,007 --> 00:34:11,567
Speaker 1: about situationships and cheating or stingy part alcoholism, and relationships

680
00:34:11,567 --> 00:34:14,047
Speaker 1: that had gone on for too long without commitment, or

681
00:34:14,327 --> 00:34:17,767
Speaker 1: wanting kids with people who didn't want kids, and frenemies

682
00:34:17,807 --> 00:34:22,247
Speaker 1: and baby showers and how expensive they were. And she said,

683
00:34:22,287 --> 00:34:24,567
Speaker 1: it's not that those things don't happen when you're older,

684
00:34:24,887 --> 00:34:26,727
Speaker 1: but it's the way in which they were being discussed

685
00:34:26,727 --> 00:34:28,807
Speaker 1: by these young women. And she said the tone was

686
00:34:28,887 --> 00:34:31,447
Speaker 1: kind of adult and all knowing, but they were all

687
00:34:31,447 --> 00:34:35,767
Speaker 1: sort of mystified about how they'd gotten themselves into this situation.

688
00:34:35,967 --> 00:34:39,767
Speaker 5: So all of those things were things she had experienced before,

689
00:34:39,887 --> 00:34:43,207
Speaker 5: So suddenly she was in a position of being the

690
00:34:43,207 --> 00:34:43,887
Speaker 5: wise one.

691
00:34:43,967 --> 00:34:46,607
Speaker 1: Well, she wasn't always being asked for advice, although sometimes

692
00:34:46,647 --> 00:34:49,607
Speaker 1: she was, you know, acknowledged as the elder. A lot

693
00:34:49,607 --> 00:34:51,967
Speaker 1: of the time, the conversation was just going on around her,

694
00:34:52,007 --> 00:34:56,127
Speaker 1: and she was kind of bored because it's like, oh,

695
00:34:56,287 --> 00:34:59,167
Speaker 1: and she realized that she was the oldest person there.

696
00:34:59,327 --> 00:35:02,447
Speaker 1: And she was saying that it was like she was

697
00:35:02,487 --> 00:35:05,327
Speaker 1: on one side of the fence peering over to a

698
00:35:05,447 --> 00:35:09,727
Speaker 1: previous version of her life where she was baff by

699
00:35:09,767 --> 00:35:12,047
Speaker 1: all of those things that had happened, and she noticed

700
00:35:12,047 --> 00:35:15,167
Speaker 1: that it's not that the situation that they were in

701
00:35:15,847 --> 00:35:19,727
Speaker 1: was their problem, it's knowing what the solution was. She's like,

702
00:35:19,887 --> 00:35:22,767
Speaker 1: as you get older, you've experienced this stuff again and again,

703
00:35:22,927 --> 00:35:25,687
Speaker 1: and you're able to quickly spot red flags and patterns,

704
00:35:26,207 --> 00:35:28,927
Speaker 1: so you're less likely to if you fall into them,

705
00:35:29,007 --> 00:35:31,247
Speaker 1: you get out of them quicker, or you're like, oh, well,

706
00:35:31,287 --> 00:35:34,727
Speaker 1: here's what you do. She talked about this feeling of

707
00:35:34,807 --> 00:35:38,767
Speaker 1: being a protective hag and I love this idea of

708
00:35:38,807 --> 00:35:41,727
Speaker 1: this reclaiming of the word hag. But she said that

709
00:35:41,767 --> 00:35:44,287
Speaker 1: it was moving into another stage of womanhood that sort

710
00:35:44,327 --> 00:35:48,247
Speaker 1: of combines giving no fucks and she said wrestling, and

711
00:35:48,327 --> 00:35:50,407
Speaker 1: she talked about the hag era is like when you

712
00:35:50,487 --> 00:35:53,127
Speaker 1: realize you're outside of it, you've graduated to this new

713
00:35:53,207 --> 00:35:57,287
Speaker 1: tier and that you're just going to conserve your energy

714
00:35:57,367 --> 00:35:59,927
Speaker 1: and realize the difference between when people are asking for

715
00:36:00,007 --> 00:36:01,607
Speaker 1: advice as opposed to just needing.

716
00:36:01,367 --> 00:36:03,687
Speaker 2: You to lot. Okay, So I understand the hagbit. What's

717
00:36:03,727 --> 00:36:04,607
Speaker 2: the protective bit?

718
00:36:04,727 --> 00:36:06,167
Speaker 1: So okay. So we were on the way into the

719
00:36:06,207 --> 00:36:10,567
Speaker 1: studio today. I saw someone sitting with a blanket around them,

720
00:36:10,807 --> 00:36:13,007
Speaker 1: you know, in the common work area. And we've got,

721
00:36:13,087 --> 00:36:15,167
Speaker 1: you know, a bunch of blankets around and sometimes people

722
00:36:15,247 --> 00:36:17,887
Speaker 1: are just wearing them if the air conditionings up too high.

723
00:36:17,927 --> 00:36:20,847
Speaker 1: And I was like, you're cold, sweetie, and she's like, yeah,

724
00:36:20,887 --> 00:36:23,367
Speaker 1: I'm freezing today. And I'm like, where Holly and I

725
00:36:23,407 --> 00:36:26,007
Speaker 1: were just sitting over there near the window, it's really warm,

726
00:36:26,167 --> 00:36:27,407
Speaker 1: Go and sit over there.

727
00:36:28,327 --> 00:36:31,127
Speaker 5: So I see, Yes, I see the protective hag as

728
00:36:31,167 --> 00:36:34,647
Speaker 5: having a Kushni bosom like akushni that I can rest

729
00:36:34,647 --> 00:36:35,047
Speaker 5: my head on.

730
00:36:35,407 --> 00:36:36,647
Speaker 3: And I seek out.

731
00:36:36,487 --> 00:36:41,287
Speaker 1: Wanting to protect younger women from either physical situations or

732
00:36:41,327 --> 00:36:44,327
Speaker 1: emotional situations. And Holly's putting her head in her hand.

733
00:36:44,367 --> 00:36:46,287
Speaker 5: So, Holly, I'm going to tell you twice recently where

734
00:36:46,327 --> 00:36:48,607
Speaker 5: I have sought out a protective hag. And I'm using

735
00:36:48,607 --> 00:36:50,567
Speaker 5: this term because this woman gave me permission to say

736
00:36:50,607 --> 00:36:53,727
Speaker 5: protective hag. The first was I got a tsunami period

737
00:36:53,767 --> 00:36:55,727
Speaker 5: when I was in Greece and I had nothing to

738
00:36:56,167 --> 00:36:58,727
Speaker 5: use right, and I was in a bathroom, and I

739
00:36:58,807 --> 00:37:01,407
Speaker 5: instinctively was like, you need a protective hag. I wasn't

740
00:37:01,407 --> 00:37:02,847
Speaker 5: going to go to a twenty year old. I wasn't

741
00:37:02,887 --> 00:37:04,167
Speaker 5: going to go to some on my own age. What

742
00:37:04,207 --> 00:37:07,167
Speaker 5: I needed was an older woman who understood, who had

743
00:37:07,167 --> 00:37:10,167
Speaker 5: been through some shit and would find me a surfboard

744
00:37:10,167 --> 00:37:11,247
Speaker 5: to put in my underpants.

745
00:37:11,687 --> 00:37:12,607
Speaker 3: And I found that.

746
00:37:12,767 --> 00:37:15,367
Speaker 5: The second, when I was on the plane with a

747
00:37:15,407 --> 00:37:17,887
Speaker 5: baby on my own, I needed a protective hag. And

748
00:37:17,927 --> 00:37:19,887
Speaker 5: a protective hag held my baby while I went to

749
00:37:19,967 --> 00:37:21,727
Speaker 5: the toilet because she knew what she was doing and

750
00:37:21,727 --> 00:37:24,847
Speaker 5: I trusted her. Holly, will you be my protective hag?

751
00:37:24,927 --> 00:37:26,367
Speaker 2: No, absolutely fucking not.

752
00:37:26,527 --> 00:37:27,247
Speaker 1: You're on your own.

753
00:37:29,287 --> 00:37:32,727
Speaker 2: My problem with this is there is so nothing new

754
00:37:32,727 --> 00:37:33,087
Speaker 2: about it.

755
00:37:33,167 --> 00:37:33,327
Speaker 1: Right.

756
00:37:33,367 --> 00:37:36,767
Speaker 2: We have always cast women in general, whatever phase of

757
00:37:36,807 --> 00:37:40,007
Speaker 2: the life they're in, they get an outside share of

758
00:37:40,207 --> 00:37:42,407
Speaker 2: you look after everybody else and put yourself last. Right,

759
00:37:42,407 --> 00:37:44,047
Speaker 2: That is a cliche. We all know that to be true.

760
00:37:44,047 --> 00:37:46,807
Speaker 2: Whether that is you will organize the office birthday cake,

761
00:37:47,247 --> 00:37:49,887
Speaker 2: or whether that's you won't go quickly to the loo

762
00:37:49,927 --> 00:37:51,927
Speaker 2: and get back to the interesting conversation you're having, but

763
00:37:51,967 --> 00:37:54,847
Speaker 2: you will fucking go and find Jesse a pad and

764
00:37:54,887 --> 00:37:57,247
Speaker 2: put your whole night on pause for ten minutes.

765
00:37:57,487 --> 00:37:59,367
Speaker 1: Some of us a selfless heart, Yeah exactly.

766
00:37:59,447 --> 00:38:01,527
Speaker 2: So that's the thing, and the thing that happens as

767
00:38:01,567 --> 00:38:06,207
Speaker 2: you get older is that expectation just intensifies, because what

768
00:38:06,287 --> 00:38:07,727
Speaker 2: are the old ladies for?

769
00:38:08,127 --> 00:38:08,327
Speaker 1: Right?

770
00:38:08,687 --> 00:38:11,327
Speaker 2: They are no longer the main characters, as me often says,

771
00:38:11,567 --> 00:38:14,167
Speaker 2: they're not breeding, they're not doing all those things.

772
00:38:14,047 --> 00:38:14,727
Speaker 1: So what are they for?

773
00:38:15,007 --> 00:38:19,287
Speaker 2: In fact, for a very long time, anthropologists literally couldn't

774
00:38:19,327 --> 00:38:25,447
Speaker 2: work out what postmenopause or women were for, because humans

775
00:38:25,607 --> 00:38:28,567
Speaker 2: and two types of whales are the only living beings

776
00:38:28,567 --> 00:38:31,727
Speaker 2: that go through menopause. Every other species, once they can

777
00:38:31,807 --> 00:38:35,007
Speaker 2: no longer reproduce, they die, right, So all the anthropologists

778
00:38:35,007 --> 00:38:38,207
Speaker 2: throughout time were like, why don't the women die when

779
00:38:38,247 --> 00:38:41,447
Speaker 2: their periods stop? And then they went, Aha, it's because

780
00:38:42,007 --> 00:38:44,847
Speaker 2: they're the grandmothers who will care and sweep and stay

781
00:38:44,887 --> 00:38:47,127
Speaker 2: at the hearth while everyone else goes out fucking and

782
00:38:47,167 --> 00:38:51,487
Speaker 2: breeding and hunting and gathering. Right, I reject this, I'm

783
00:38:51,527 --> 00:38:53,927
Speaker 2: in my hag era. But I'm in my selfish hag era.

784
00:38:54,327 --> 00:38:56,447
Speaker 2: I'm like, not literally because at home I still have

785
00:38:56,447 --> 00:38:58,367
Speaker 2: small children and I have to be protective of them.

786
00:38:58,607 --> 00:39:00,487
Speaker 2: But am I going to mother all the young women

787
00:39:00,527 --> 00:39:01,847
Speaker 2: in the office Now, I'm going to be like you

788
00:39:01,967 --> 00:39:03,447
Speaker 2: date that fuck with you, find.

789
00:39:03,207 --> 00:39:08,047
Speaker 3: Out what happens. Like that is rotating you position. Okay.

790
00:39:08,047 --> 00:39:10,167
Speaker 5: I have a different reading, which is I went deep

791
00:39:10,367 --> 00:39:13,887
Speaker 5: on like croning, which is apparently a ritual rite of

792
00:39:13,967 --> 00:39:17,447
Speaker 5: passage in feminist spiritual circles. You would like this, we

793
00:39:17,447 --> 00:39:19,767
Speaker 5: should do a croning with you both where you are

794
00:39:19,847 --> 00:39:23,367
Speaker 5: moving into an era of wisdom, freedom and personal power.

795
00:39:23,527 --> 00:39:24,567
Speaker 3: Yes, so there's a.

796
00:39:24,847 --> 00:39:27,447
Speaker 2: Don't get in my way with all your need yes.

797
00:39:27,567 --> 00:39:30,407
Speaker 5: So even and I think that there's just I remember

798
00:39:30,487 --> 00:39:33,087
Speaker 5: learning in ancient Greek mythology or something, there was something

799
00:39:33,127 --> 00:39:34,607
Speaker 5: called the Delphic oracle.

800
00:39:34,647 --> 00:39:35,527
Speaker 3: If you guys heard of this.

801
00:39:36,087 --> 00:39:37,567
Speaker 5: It was on the side of what is now a

802
00:39:37,647 --> 00:39:40,887
Speaker 5: road in Greece, and the Delphic Oracle was this woman

803
00:39:40,967 --> 00:39:42,647
Speaker 5: who would just sit there with a silly hat on

804
00:39:43,087 --> 00:39:46,967
Speaker 5: and give you premonitions. So if you were going to

805
00:39:47,047 --> 00:39:48,967
Speaker 5: go to war, then you would go to the Delphic

806
00:39:49,007 --> 00:39:52,047
Speaker 5: Oracle and be like hey do I go? And she

807
00:39:52,167 --> 00:39:55,327
Speaker 5: was just an old woman who was high. She was hallucinating.

808
00:39:55,367 --> 00:39:58,327
Speaker 5: There were gases and stuff, and she would just say yes, no.

809
00:39:58,927 --> 00:39:59,927
Speaker 2: Like we could do that.

810
00:40:00,167 --> 00:40:02,527
Speaker 5: I reckon that that's what you guys are all about.

811
00:40:02,607 --> 00:40:05,167
Speaker 5: That reminded me of you. Holly is sitting in a

812
00:40:05,567 --> 00:40:08,927
Speaker 5: silly little fortune teller hat, just me coming to you

813
00:40:09,047 --> 00:40:12,007
Speaker 5: with advice and you fucking with me a bit. I

814
00:40:12,007 --> 00:40:13,647
Speaker 5: don't think you're giving me the right advice.

815
00:40:13,767 --> 00:40:15,847
Speaker 2: I like to do that with Adm Vernon. My favorite

816
00:40:15,847 --> 00:40:17,927
Speaker 2: thing is that Adam Vernham comes and ask me advice

817
00:40:17,927 --> 00:40:19,847
Speaker 2: about things, and I like to stare in the wrong

818
00:40:19,887 --> 00:40:21,807
Speaker 2: direction and see what happens. Fun.

819
00:40:22,687 --> 00:40:25,127
Speaker 3: That is what older women have always done.

820
00:40:25,167 --> 00:40:27,807
Speaker 1: My friend Paula, I'm so glad I've learned this term

821
00:40:27,847 --> 00:40:31,007
Speaker 1: because it describes her so much. She has this weird

822
00:40:31,767 --> 00:40:34,887
Speaker 1: innate radar that has just come to the four in

823
00:40:34,927 --> 00:40:38,607
Speaker 1: the last year or two where she can spot mothers

824
00:40:38,607 --> 00:40:40,487
Speaker 1: in trouble with little kids.

825
00:40:40,727 --> 00:40:43,327
Speaker 5: Found she found my sister in trouble, and she found

826
00:40:43,327 --> 00:40:44,167
Speaker 5: your sister.

827
00:40:43,927 --> 00:40:47,607
Speaker 1: In trouble in Bondai Junction. And she didn't even realize

828
00:40:47,647 --> 00:40:49,887
Speaker 1: it was your sister, but she saw someone who had

829
00:40:49,887 --> 00:40:52,447
Speaker 1: a crying baby. Who was I can't remember the circumstances.

830
00:40:52,447 --> 00:40:53,727
Speaker 1: And she went over and she said, you need me

831
00:40:53,767 --> 00:40:54,847
Speaker 1: to hold the baby? You're okay.

832
00:40:54,847 --> 00:40:55,447
Speaker 3: That's what she does.

833
00:40:55,487 --> 00:40:57,367
Speaker 1: She just goes and claim it up and went. And

834
00:40:57,367 --> 00:40:59,087
Speaker 1: there was another time she was driving along the side

835
00:40:59,087 --> 00:41:00,887
Speaker 1: of the road she saw a woman pushing a pram

836
00:41:00,927 --> 00:41:02,687
Speaker 1: with a baby, and she just knew that something was wrong.

837
00:41:02,727 --> 00:41:05,887
Speaker 1: She pulled over. She said, are you okay? The woman

838
00:41:05,967 --> 00:41:08,287
Speaker 1: was crying, the baby wouldn't sleep, she was just having

839
00:41:08,287 --> 00:41:10,247
Speaker 1: a bit of a bad moment. She just gave he

840
00:41:10,247 --> 00:41:12,287
Speaker 1: a little hug, just sat with her for a minute.

841
00:41:12,487 --> 00:41:14,887
Speaker 1: That's lovely. That's lovely. Hollywoodn't do that.

842
00:41:15,127 --> 00:41:19,927
Speaker 3: But I like this idea of I feel.

843
00:41:19,687 --> 00:41:25,247
Speaker 1: Protective suddenly over younger women. I do. I feel physically

844
00:41:25,247 --> 00:41:27,887
Speaker 1: protective of them, like I will stand between a young

845
00:41:27,887 --> 00:41:31,807
Speaker 1: woman and and I think that part of that is

846
00:41:31,847 --> 00:41:34,607
Speaker 1: when you no longer care about the approval of men.

847
00:41:35,407 --> 00:41:38,727
Speaker 1: You're past that age of you know, I'm not currency

848
00:41:38,887 --> 00:41:42,127
Speaker 1: to men anymore. So my well being does not rely

849
00:41:42,487 --> 00:41:45,447
Speaker 1: on the beatific nature of men. I don't need them

850
00:41:45,487 --> 00:41:47,887
Speaker 1: for my physical protection, and I don't need them for

851
00:41:48,047 --> 00:41:54,087
Speaker 1: my emotional or financial stability. Therefore, she talks about decentering

852
00:41:54,167 --> 00:41:56,087
Speaker 1: men in your life, and I think you can only

853
00:41:56,167 --> 00:41:59,167
Speaker 1: do that at a certain that point in your life.

854
00:41:59,207 --> 00:42:02,047
Speaker 2: That all makes absolute sense, right, and there is no question.

855
00:42:02,087 --> 00:42:06,287
Speaker 2: Although I won't necessarily hold your crying baby, I always

856
00:42:06,327 --> 00:42:08,727
Speaker 2: smile and encourage and tell moms that doing a good job,

857
00:42:09,967 --> 00:42:16,047
Speaker 2: you're doing great on the not really not.

858
00:42:16,207 --> 00:42:18,287
Speaker 1: Especially, no, but that's protective hag.

859
00:42:18,447 --> 00:42:20,647
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got a little bit of protective hag in me,

860
00:42:20,847 --> 00:42:22,327
Speaker 2: and that I'm always going to be on the young

861
00:42:22,367 --> 00:42:25,327
Speaker 2: woman's side if I do, you like. But I just

862
00:42:25,567 --> 00:42:27,967
Speaker 2: resent the fact that whatever phase of life we're in,

863
00:42:28,287 --> 00:42:31,287
Speaker 2: it's like, no, it's not about you. You are here

864
00:42:31,367 --> 00:42:34,527
Speaker 2: to help everybody else serve. And older women in particular

865
00:42:34,607 --> 00:42:37,087
Speaker 2: get pushed into that place just at the moment when

866
00:42:37,207 --> 00:42:40,607
Speaker 2: often they are able to do things for themselves right

867
00:42:40,687 --> 00:42:43,807
Speaker 2: for the first time, because maybe caring responsibilities have backed

868
00:42:43,807 --> 00:42:45,607
Speaker 2: off a bit or whatever, or they're in a better

869
00:42:45,647 --> 00:42:47,967
Speaker 2: financial situation, and so they're like, I'd like to go

870
00:42:48,007 --> 00:42:50,247
Speaker 2: back to UNI, I'm going to learn yoga. I'd like

871
00:42:50,287 --> 00:42:52,247
Speaker 2: to travel around Australia in a van. I'd like to

872
00:42:52,327 --> 00:42:54,087
Speaker 2: leave my husband and go and sleep with a hot

873
00:42:54,087 --> 00:42:56,007
Speaker 2: toy boy like Nicole Kidman.

874
00:42:55,767 --> 00:42:57,567
Speaker 1: Or whatever talk about the other day.

875
00:42:57,687 --> 00:43:00,927
Speaker 2: It's like, no, because really you're here to make sure

876
00:43:00,967 --> 00:43:02,487
Speaker 2: everybody else's life works.

877
00:43:02,487 --> 00:43:02,727
Speaker 1: Well.

878
00:43:02,847 --> 00:43:07,047
Speaker 5: No, there is a scholar who has researched the crown

879
00:43:07,167 --> 00:43:09,447
Speaker 5: and this is a definition she's come up with. I

880
00:43:09,487 --> 00:43:11,607
Speaker 5: want to know if this is you a crone and

881
00:43:11,647 --> 00:43:15,207
Speaker 5: I think that it speaks to the superpower of older women,

882
00:43:15,887 --> 00:43:18,527
Speaker 5: the one who sees far, who looks into the spaces

883
00:43:18,567 --> 00:43:21,327
Speaker 5: between the worlds and can literally see what is coming,

884
00:43:21,367 --> 00:43:24,407
Speaker 5: what has been, what is now, and what underlies and

885
00:43:24,447 --> 00:43:28,127
Speaker 5: stands behind many things. They represent the ability to see

886
00:43:28,367 --> 00:43:30,887
Speaker 5: more than with just one's eyes alone, but to see

887
00:43:31,087 --> 00:43:33,927
Speaker 5: with the heart's eye, with the soul's eyes, through the

888
00:43:33,967 --> 00:43:35,967
Speaker 5: eyes of the creative force and the animating force of

889
00:43:35,967 --> 00:43:36,367
Speaker 5: the psychic.

890
00:43:36,527 --> 00:43:37,167
Speaker 1: I think that's me.

891
00:43:39,327 --> 00:43:42,407
Speaker 2: I don't see what's coming. It's usually just like running

892
00:43:42,407 --> 00:43:42,647
Speaker 2: from the.

893
00:43:42,647 --> 00:43:45,487
Speaker 1: Protecting crone over Holly as well, who was the one

894
00:43:45,527 --> 00:43:48,887
Speaker 1: that got your HRT script You're very bad was my mission?

895
00:43:49,927 --> 00:43:53,407
Speaker 5: You know what protective Hags love is asking if your

896
00:43:53,407 --> 00:43:57,367
Speaker 5: baby should have a cardigan on protective Hags and your

897
00:43:57,367 --> 00:43:58,207
Speaker 5: baby shove socks on.

898
00:43:59,447 --> 00:44:02,167
Speaker 1: I don't think that's protective hag. I think that's a

899
00:44:02,167 --> 00:44:05,407
Speaker 1: bit controlling, judgmental, old lady.

900
00:44:06,727 --> 00:44:10,167
Speaker 2: That's it, friends, we're out protecting of bags or not.

901
00:44:10,487 --> 00:44:13,567
Speaker 1: I'm off to find Jesse a surfboard, as you are.

902
00:44:14,287 --> 00:44:14,607
Speaker 2: I'm not.

903
00:44:14,727 --> 00:44:17,647
Speaker 1: I'm off to get my needs back. Thank you very much,

904
00:44:18,207 --> 00:44:19,927
Speaker 1: big thank you to.

905
00:44:20,007 --> 00:44:23,407
Speaker 2: All of me out loudest for listening to today's show,

906
00:44:23,567 --> 00:44:26,087
Speaker 2: and to of course our fabulous team for putting it together.

907
00:44:26,327 --> 00:44:28,487
Speaker 2: We're going to be back in there ears tomorrow.

908
00:44:28,247 --> 00:44:30,327
Speaker 1: And before we go. It's been a big year, to

909
00:44:30,367 --> 00:44:34,127
Speaker 1: say the least, which is why on yesterday's subscriber episode, Jesse,

910
00:44:34,407 --> 00:44:38,447
Speaker 1: Amelia Lester and I took a little glimpse into what

911
00:44:38,527 --> 00:44:41,047
Speaker 1: have been the glimmers, our favorite glimmers from the year,

912
00:44:41,087 --> 00:44:43,407
Speaker 1: the pockets of joy that we found in our lives.

913
00:44:43,447 --> 00:44:46,607
Speaker 1: It was the most beautiful episode to record. It really

914
00:44:46,647 --> 00:44:50,487
Speaker 1: made me walk away feeling all warm and cozy, and

915
00:44:50,767 --> 00:44:54,967
Speaker 1: Amelia texted me afterwards to just say how meaningful it was.

916
00:44:55,207 --> 00:44:57,407
Speaker 1: It got quite deep, beautiful words that I said.

917
00:44:57,487 --> 00:45:00,007
Speaker 5: You know when may have weirdly says nicely sometimes she

918
00:45:00,087 --> 00:45:01,127
Speaker 5: did that I did.

919
00:45:03,047 --> 00:45:07,927
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have listen merely. You coming back has been

920
00:45:08,007 --> 00:45:10,527
Speaker 1: such a glimmer for me. This year because you just

921
00:45:10,607 --> 00:45:14,327
Speaker 1: around the office sometimes and it's like because we pretty

922
00:45:14,407 --> 00:45:16,287
Speaker 1: much didn't haven't seen each of them for ten years,

923
00:45:16,807 --> 00:45:20,407
Speaker 1: and now it's like we have our regular monthly dinners.

924
00:45:20,687 --> 00:45:23,207
Speaker 1: But then also you just around and the other glimmer

925
00:45:23,247 --> 00:45:27,527
Speaker 1: for me still on you, is just watching you. Glimmer

926
00:45:28,047 --> 00:45:31,567
Speaker 1: like watching people discover you in a way that I

927
00:45:31,607 --> 00:45:34,407
Speaker 1: always have because you as always There will be a

928
00:45:34,407 --> 00:45:36,407
Speaker 1: link in the show notes. Bye bye.

929
00:45:36,807 --> 00:45:39,687
Speaker 2: Shout out to any Mama Miya subscribers listening. If you

930
00:45:39,847 --> 00:45:42,727
Speaker 2: love the show and you want to support us, subscribing

931
00:45:42,727 --> 00:45:45,167
Speaker 2: to Mama mia is the very best way to do it.

932
00:45:45,367 --> 00:45:47,247
Speaker 2: There's a link in the episode of description.