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Speaker 1: If you're not putting yourself in the position where you're

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Speaker 1: a beginner and you feel that challenge and the butterflies,

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Speaker 1: then you're limiting your growth. But actually, what I love

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Speaker 1: is being a life learner and realizing how much more

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Speaker 1: I have to learn and also just how amazing we

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Speaker 1: all are. We can all learn so much more than

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Speaker 1: we think.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Sees the Yay Podcast. Busy and happy

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Speaker 2: are not the same thing. We too rarely question what

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Speaker 2: makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but

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Speaker 2: rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than

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Speaker 2: one way. So this is a platform to hear and

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Speaker 2: explore the stories of those who found lives They adore

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Speaker 2: the good, bad and ugly. The best and worst day

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Speaker 2: will bear all the facets of seizing your ya. I'm

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Speaker 2: Sarah Davidson or a spoonful of Sarah, a lawyer turned

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Speaker 2: fu entrepreneur whos walped the suits and heels to co

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Speaker 2: found matcha Maiden and Matcham Milk Bark CZA is a

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Speaker 2: series of conversations on finding a life you love and

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Speaker 2: exploring the self out challenge, joy and fulfillment along the way.

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Speaker 2: Lovely Neighborhood, I hope you all had a wonderful double

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Speaker 2: long weekend and getting back into the swing of things.

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Speaker 2: It does take the brain a little while to kick

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Speaker 2: back into gear. I had some very much needed downtime

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Speaker 2: in the countryside over easter with lots of wholesome analog

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Speaker 2: playta We did crosswords and puzzles and read books, and

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Speaker 2: my goodness, it does wonders for the soul. So often

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Speaker 2: you don't realize how fast you've been going, or how

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Speaker 2: hard you've been pushing yourself until you stop, and then

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Speaker 2: it all catches up on you. And I talk about

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Speaker 2: the relentlessness of our modern pace of life so much

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Speaker 2: on this show, and yet even with all that knowledge

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Speaker 2: in my brain, I still constantly fall victim to it myself.

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Speaker 2: It's just crazy how we can get stuck in these cycles.

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Speaker 2: So I am very grateful not only for our guest today,

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Speaker 2: but for the timing of his appearance, as he just

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Speaker 2: happens to be a world renowned expert in optimizing our health,

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Speaker 2: our wellbeing, and our longevity and is exactly the person

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Speaker 2: whose brains that I needed to pick this week. Nick

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Speaker 2: and I are lucky to have been friends with Simon

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Speaker 2: Hill for many years now connecting through multiple shared chapters

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Speaker 2: in the wellness industry, including launching product businesses. This was

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Speaker 2: back in the Matchmaden days for us opening our plant

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Speaker 2: based restaurants at similar times and sharing in that experience,

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Speaker 2: writing books, hanging with the hemswords, and then of course

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Speaker 2: entering the wild world of podcasting. One of us has

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Speaker 2: a number one best selling book and a podcast with

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Speaker 2: forty million downloads and counting. And I'll let you, guys

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Speaker 2: guess which one of us that is. You may already

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Speaker 2: know Simon as the brain's behind the multi platform plant Proof,

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Speaker 2: recently rebranded to The Proof, exploring the health and longevity

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Speaker 2: benefits that come with mastering physical exercise, nutrition, mindfulness, recovery, sleep,

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Speaker 2: and alignment. Simon is a physiotherapist and nutrition scientist with

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Speaker 2: such a unique ability to distill and translate often bluted,

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Speaker 2: nuanced scientific information into snippets that are digestible pun intended

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Speaker 2: by everyday audiences, so that we are equipped to block

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Speaker 2: out the noise and misinformation of the social media age

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Speaker 2: and better our lives. I mean, who doesn't want to

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Speaker 2: live longer and better and be given tips on how

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Speaker 2: to do that in a digestible, easy to access way.

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Speaker 2: You can see why Simon's is a brain that I'm

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Speaker 2: thrilled to have picked this week and why millions tune

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Speaker 2: into his content. This one is full of zingers, and

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Speaker 2: I hope you guys enjoy as much as I did.

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Speaker 2: Simon Hill, Welcome to Ceza Sarah.

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Speaker 3: Great to be here with you. Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, we were just discussing before we started

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Speaker 2: recording that it's been many, many years, like maybe even

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Speaker 2: almost a decade since I saw you in the flesh,

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Speaker 2: back in the homeland of Australia, which is not where

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Speaker 2: you are currently. But it's lovely to see you, my course.

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Speaker 2: I think the big problem with having guests that you've

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Speaker 2: followed for a really long time and sort of lived

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Speaker 2: parallel lives that have intersected at very points is wanting

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Speaker 2: to distill that entire person and all their knowledge into

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Speaker 2: a single episode to just showcase everything that's incredible about you.

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Speaker 2: But with like three hundred and sixty episodes of your

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Speaker 2: own podcast, a book endless knowledge in so many areas,

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Speaker 2: multiple businesses, I've actually struggled a lot to decide where

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Speaker 2: to start with this one, because there's so many places

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Speaker 2: we could, but in most episodes I like to start

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Speaker 2: back at childhood because I think that as we get

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Speaker 2: further and further into our lives, we get clouded by

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Speaker 2: success and the rat races we're just talking about, and

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Speaker 2: sort of taking it back to the very beginning who

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Speaker 2: you are, when you're a blank slate, and then chasing

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Speaker 2: through all the chapters that formed you into who you are.

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Speaker 2: It always is a nice place to begin someone's journey.

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Speaker 2: So take us back to young Simon and Melbourne boy,

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Speaker 2: what were your first part time jobs? What did you

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Speaker 2: think you'd be?

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Speaker 1: My first part time job was actually selling footy records

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Speaker 1: at the MCG no.

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Speaker 3: Record, get your record?

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Speaker 2: I probably bought enough for you, how I con.

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Speaker 1: It you might have? Yeah, Yeah, I was really big

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Speaker 1: into skateboarding actually when I was a teenager. So I

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Speaker 1: worked out that I could work at the football self

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Speaker 1: footy records, make some money, and then I could go

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Speaker 1: to the swyards. I'm not sure if you remember the

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Speaker 1: there was a skate park that it's gone now, used

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Speaker 1: to be in the middle of Melbourne and it's right

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Speaker 1: near Melbourne Central. So I would get off the train

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Speaker 1: with my friends at Melbourne Central and we'd head over

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Speaker 1: to the sour yards and spend all the money that

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Speaker 1: we'd made, like buying new skateboards.

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Speaker 3: Or new wheels and buy food, and we thought it

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Speaker 3: was so cool.

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Speaker 2: It's a simple time.

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Speaker 3: So it was such a simple time.

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Speaker 1: But I have so many fond memories, like with the

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Speaker 1: friends that I was working with and being able to

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Speaker 1: sneak into the games and sneak into the Grand Final

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Speaker 1: because I had a footy record uniform and I felt

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Speaker 1: so cool at the time. But that's where I kind

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Speaker 1: of cut my teeth with my first job and started

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Speaker 1: to understand money and the importance of money and the

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Speaker 1: fact that you could you could trade your time and

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Speaker 1: labor and in return get some money and then go

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Speaker 1: out into the world and spend it. But as a kid, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's different to getting money from your parents and

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Speaker 1: spending their money. So he gave me a taste for

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Speaker 1: what was to come as an adult. But as a kid,

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Speaker 1: I was a pretty curious kid. I was like the

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Speaker 1: kid that would always want to know how things worked,

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Speaker 1: and probably annoyingly so, so I would ask my dad

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Speaker 1: and my cousins and my uncle, you know, everything and

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Speaker 1: anything if there was you know, some new piece of

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Speaker 1: technology in front of us, or a car or a bike.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to dismantle it. I wanted to understand how

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Speaker 1: it worked. And my dad was really encouraging. He kind

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Speaker 1: of really helped encourage that curiosity. He's a scientist himself,

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Speaker 1: a professor now and now has been a professor for

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Speaker 1: forty years of physiology, and so I think I got

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Speaker 1: that from him. You know, he's obviously very cure, wries

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Speaker 1: about how the body works and biology and physiology, and

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Speaker 1: so kind of followed him down that path.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think he was very closely linked into

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Speaker 2: another sort of big pivotal moment in your younger years

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Speaker 2: that kind of shaped you on the pathway that you're

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Speaker 2: on now. I just listened to your episode of The

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Speaker 2: Imperfect that just came out two days ago, so I'd

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Speaker 2: been sort of doing my research and then was like,

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Speaker 2: oh wow, this is so handy for me. I get

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Speaker 2: like a refresher of Simon Hill and you talk about

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Speaker 2: your I think you called it your on ramp to wellness,

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Speaker 2: and there's sort of been several in your life and

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Speaker 2: that aligns really closely with what I love in this

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Speaker 2: part of each episode, which is tracing through people's earlier

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Speaker 2: years to sort of look at all the dots that

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Speaker 2: connect and how we think there's this linear pathway to

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Speaker 2: get to where we are, but really it's this mish

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Speaker 2: mash of events and slide indoors moments, and you know,

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Speaker 2: most people don't figure it out going forwards. It only

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Speaker 2: makes sense kind of looking backwards. But can you maybe

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Speaker 2: take us to that event at fifteen where this passion

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Speaker 2: for wellness kind of really was sparked.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So I think up until the age of fifteen,

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Speaker 1: I sort of just thought health was a given. I

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Speaker 1: hadn't been around anyone. My grandparents were still alive, and

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Speaker 1: I hadn't had a family member or pass away or

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Speaker 1: had any real serious health issue. And when I was fifteen,

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Speaker 1: on this particular day, we were living in Melbourne or

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Speaker 1: outside of Melbourne, and on the weekends, my dad and

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Speaker 1: myself and my brother would often go out to the

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Speaker 1: Yarra Valley, a wine region, and on this Sunday it

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Speaker 1: was just my dad and I and we were having

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Speaker 1: a great day driving around in his MGB, which is

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Speaker 1: this convertible British sports car, and visiting wineries and being curious.

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Speaker 1: I remember we used to ask the wine makers so

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Speaker 1: many questions. I really got to appreciate how wine was made.

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Speaker 1: And it was also not the first time. But memories

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Speaker 1: of the wine makers and this I digress here, but

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Speaker 1: wine makers like their face lighting up when people were

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Speaker 1: really inquiring about what it is they do.

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Speaker 3: So I think back.

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Speaker 1: About that now and I'm like, yeah, gosh, you know,

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Speaker 1: those people probably felt really seen because we would often

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Speaker 1: go to these little tiny wineries, not the bee ones,

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Speaker 1: and spend like my dad would just we'd sit there

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Speaker 1: for like hours. And on this day, we were driving

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Speaker 1: back home to Kinglake where my dad lived, and he

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Speaker 1: started to get some chest pain and I could tell

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Speaker 1: that he was uncomfortable. Asked him if he was okay,

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Speaker 1: and he said that he has chest pain, but he

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Speaker 1: kind of played it down, and we proceeded to go

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Speaker 1: home and cooked dinner.

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Speaker 3: He seemed fine. I went to.

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Speaker 1: Bed, and in the early hours of the following morning,

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Speaker 1: I woke up to noise in the kitchen and thought

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Speaker 1: I'd better go out and see what was happening. And

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Speaker 1: by the time I got out to the kitchen, my

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Speaker 1: dad was there with the phone. He was on his knees,

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Speaker 1: he was out of breath. I can remember this vividly,

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Speaker 1: and he had called triple zero, and by that time

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Speaker 1: he could no longer deny what was happening. He was

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Speaker 1: having a heart attack. My dad studies cardiovascular risk factors.

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Speaker 1: They knew exactly what was happening.

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Speaker 2: The strength of denial.

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Speaker 1: I think it's pretty common among men to kind of

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Speaker 1: wait until the last minute to go and see a doctor,

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Speaker 1: and this was like really waiting until the last minute.

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Speaker 3: And so he pushed it to write to the limits.

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Speaker 1: And I ended up speaking with the paramedic and just

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Speaker 1: explaining like what his state was. And we were in

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Speaker 1: King Lake, and this was a while back. So now

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Speaker 1: I imagine it's quite developed out between Bundur and King Lake,

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Speaker 1: but there wasn't actually much back then. It was a

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Speaker 1: lot of paddocks and country farms, and the nearest hospital

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Speaker 1: was a little while away. So they said, we're going

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Speaker 1: to send a helicopter, and before I knew it, there

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Speaker 1: was a helicopter. There was paramedics inside the house, putting

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Speaker 1: him up on the stretcher and attaching all sorts of

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Speaker 1: different cords and cables and measuring vitals and all these

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Speaker 1: sorts of things, and then they whisked him away and

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Speaker 1: took him in the helicopter. That wasn't room for me,

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Speaker 1: so I trailed in the ambulance by car, and my

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Speaker 1: mom and my brother.

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Speaker 3: They were in Alpham.

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Speaker 1: Because my parents were divorced, so I called them and

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Speaker 1: explained what was happening, and so they then met started

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Speaker 1: driving and met me at the hospital.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, you were fifteen by yourself.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So it was just that was just me kind

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Speaker 1: of dealing with all of that, and I don't think

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Speaker 1: I really realized until like maybe fifteen years down the

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Speaker 1: track that that was like quite a traumatic experience to

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Speaker 1: sort of see a loved one, you know, my dad,

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Speaker 1: my hero, who all of a sudden his health is

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Speaker 1: crumbling and you don't know if he's going to live.

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Speaker 1: And we waited at the hospital and the doctor came

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Speaker 1: out and let us know that my dad had had

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Speaker 1: a very severe heart attack. He was forty one, and

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Speaker 1: he wasn't on any prescription medications and had no diagnosed conditions,

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Speaker 1: so it was kind of out of the blue, very unexpected,

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Speaker 1: and they had managed to save his life, which was

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Speaker 1: like obviously the most important thing that we cared about

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Speaker 1: at that point. In time, and then he walked us

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Speaker 1: through my dad's prognosis and said that he would likely

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Speaker 1: be on certain medications for the rest of his life,

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Speaker 1: and that my brother and I, being young men essentially

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Speaker 1: I was fifteen, my brother about eighteen, would really need

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Speaker 1: to keep you an eye on this because cardiovascular disease

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Speaker 1: runs in families, and that we kind of walked away

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Speaker 1: from that event for many, many years, sort of holding

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Speaker 1: this limiting belief that we'd been dealt this dodgy card

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Speaker 1: essentially your cards, and so we had these genes that

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Speaker 1: you know, led to our father who seemed healthy. He

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Speaker 1: wasn't from the outside. He wasn't someone that was going

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Speaker 1: and eating McDonald's and hungry Jackson. He wasn't OBEs. My

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Speaker 1: dad was representative of a typical Australian father. He was

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Speaker 1: someone who was probably a little stressed from work and

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Speaker 1: trying to earn enough money. But he exercised, you know,

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Speaker 1: three or four days a week. He tried to eat

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Speaker 1: whole foods. He wasn't eating a whole lot of junk food.

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Speaker 1: And he didn't smoke, and he drank you know, I

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Speaker 1: guess I'd say like the average amount of alcohol for

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Speaker 1: an Australian, which is probably too much.

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Speaker 2: I was going to say relative globally, probably a little

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Speaker 2: bit side the average.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let's just say it's a little high, but still

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Speaker 1: unexpected at forty one. Right at forty one, you are

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Speaker 1: still very much, you know, middle aged young. You're not

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Speaker 1: expecting to have a heart attack or a stroke or

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Speaker 1: any type of significant cardiac event.

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Speaker 3: And it wasn't until many, many years later.

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Speaker 1: When I had gone to university and started understanding science,

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Speaker 1: that I was able to better understand the role of

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Speaker 1: genetics and lifestyle our environment. And so while I probably

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Speaker 1: do have some genes that are kind of stacking the

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Speaker 1: deck against me from a cardiovascular disease point of view,

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Speaker 1: the main reason that cardiovascid disease actually runs in families

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Speaker 1: is not genetic. It's that families typically adopt the same lifestyles.

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Speaker 1: When you double click and deal a little deeper into

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Speaker 1: the research, sure, genes probably count for about twenty percent

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Speaker 1: of your health fate and risk of chronic disease, but

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Speaker 1: the other eighty percent is influenced by the choices that

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Speaker 1: you do or don't make. And discovering that kind of

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Speaker 1: flipped the I guess the narrative. And I haven't really

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Speaker 1: ever thought about this, but I probably had a bit

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Speaker 1: of a victim narrative. You know, I was probably not

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Speaker 1: in a very empowered position, and then when I had

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Speaker 1: that information, it changed to me saying, Okay, I have

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Speaker 1: these genes, but I kind of can accept a lot

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Speaker 1: of responsibility here and understand that I have a lot

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Speaker 1: of power. And that was, you know, a very empowering

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Speaker 1: moment for me, and it led to everything I'm pursuing

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Speaker 1: now and kind of provides a purpose for why I

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Speaker 1: have the conversations I have, so that the everyday person

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Speaker 1: out there can also feel that empowerment and understand that

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Speaker 1: they you know, they may have genes that are predisposing

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Speaker 1: them to breast cancer or to prostate cancer or if

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Speaker 1: you're like me, having a heart attack, but there's there's

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Speaker 1: a lot you can do to stop those genes being

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Speaker 1: expressed and really reduce your risk of having those diseases

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Speaker 1: affect your life.

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Speaker 2: I loved that. I mean, I've heard you sort of

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Speaker 2: speak to that statistic quite a lot, that eighty twenty split,

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Speaker 2: and it fascinates me in quite a unique way because

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Speaker 2: I think you probably already know that I'm adopted, and

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Speaker 2: so I've never had the full picture of our genetics.

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Speaker 2: Nick's mother is also adopted, so we both have like

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Speaker 2: a bit of a mystery in our genetic makeup. And

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Speaker 2: often when I'm asked, have you ever gone to find

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Speaker 2: your birth parents and medical history? You know, have you

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Speaker 2: wanted that picture? I've actually often. I mean there's lots

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Speaker 2: of sort of social and emotional parts of that conversation,

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Speaker 2: but in the health area alone, when I did twenty

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Speaker 2: three in me the DNA testing, I wanted to know

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Speaker 2: my ethnic makeup, but I didn't want to know if

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Speaker 2: I had a predisposition to anything because of that exact reason.

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Speaker 2: I thought, if it's bad, it's not guaranteed, but it's

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Speaker 2: going to make me think I've been dealt these cards,

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Speaker 2: and I'll focus on it rather than knowing that that

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Speaker 2: eighty percent I'm empowered to change within that sphere of influence,

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Speaker 2: it's massive, and I didn't want to know that, you know,

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Speaker 2: have this like, yeah, this opportunity to become a VG

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Speaker 2: them to the cards I've dealt. And I think that

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Speaker 2: the message that you have in health is also really

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Speaker 2: well extrapolated to life, is it? Sometimes you think you've

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Speaker 2: had this bad luck because of your circumstances, but you

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Speaker 2: can change so much more of it than you think.

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Speaker 2: You think. I'm shy, I can't public speak, I'm short,

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Speaker 2: I can't be a model. You know, there's all these

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Speaker 2: things that we think silo our choices in life. But

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Speaker 2: maybe that's twenty percent of the picture. But that eighty

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Speaker 2: percent you can work with with your lifestyle, with your choices,

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Speaker 2: with the mindset that you take. And when you said

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Speaker 2: that in the Imperfect episode, I just was like writing

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Speaker 2: down furiously. I'm like, oh my god, eighty twenty people

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Speaker 2: need to know this.

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Speaker 1: I agree with you. We can really limit ourselves and

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Speaker 1: put ourselves in a box. We can become defined by

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Speaker 1: something like those things that you just mentioned there. I

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Speaker 1: will say, in speaking to many people about this idea

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Speaker 1: of doing genetic testing, it's funny because I think personality

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Speaker 1: I play a role.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: There are some people who at least the feedback that

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Speaker 1: they've given me is that going out and doing a

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Speaker 1: genetic test and they found out they had like two

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Speaker 1: copies of APO E four, which it means that you

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Speaker 1: have significantly higher risk of dementia.

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Speaker 3: And I'm not.

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Speaker 1: Sure if you watched Limitless with Chris Hemsworth, but that

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Speaker 1: was one of the key for like a focal point

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Speaker 1: of that that documentary was his work with doctor Peter Attia.

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Speaker 1: They did genetic testing discovered he had two of those copies,

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Speaker 1: And I think it can go both ways. So I

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Speaker 1: agree with that. I think there's certain people that do

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Speaker 1: not do well with that information, and so you have

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Speaker 1: to know yourself. And if you think that that is

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Speaker 1: going to limit you and perhaps lead to a kind

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Speaker 1: of more of a victim mindset than genetic testing, is

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Speaker 1: probably not for you. But then there is the person

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Speaker 1: out there who just wants to know all of the

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Speaker 1: information and he wants to prove people wrong, and so

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Speaker 1: finding out they have two copies of Apoe four provides

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Speaker 1: all the motivation they need. And that type of person

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Speaker 1: is also the type of person you know. It's very

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Speaker 1: hard to get people to adopt a healthy lifestyle.

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Speaker 3: But one of the.

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Speaker 1: Ways that I've at least seen that helps people is

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Speaker 1: either they go through a very serious have a very

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Speaker 1: serious event themselves, or they see someone directly like I did.

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Speaker 3: And if you don't, then your why may.

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Speaker 1: Not be strong enough for you to sustain the changes

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Speaker 1: that you make. So for someone who hasn't had a

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Speaker 1: severe health event themselves or hasn't seen a close to

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Speaker 1: a loved one, it might be the generating testing that

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Speaker 1: does provide the motivating piece for them. But I totally

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Speaker 1: agree with you that you know, I know people in

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Speaker 1: my life that it would just be too much information

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Speaker 1: for some people.

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Speaker 2: So funny that you said that, And my reason for

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Speaker 2: my reaction just then was because I had scrapped whatever

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Speaker 2: my next question was and typed just as we're writing

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Speaker 2: before that idea of I think you and I have

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Speaker 2: been in the wellness industry for it, and had our

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Speaker 2: podcast for a similar amount of time. We've kind of

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Speaker 2: navigated through the big changes that have happened in the space,

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Speaker 2: and one of the things I've often found that we

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Speaker 2: all share in common is some big pivotal event, which

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Speaker 2: is often a crisis. It's very rarely a big positive event.

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Speaker 2: It's always some kind of physical breakdown of ourselves or

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Speaker 2: someone else, and then a passion to share enough information

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Speaker 2: with others so they don't need that kind of crisis

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Speaker 2: to make a change that they can preempt it and

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Speaker 2: learn by not by doing, but by seeing, so that

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Speaker 2: they don't have to have a breakdown like all of us.

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Speaker 2: I think there was a stage in the wellness industry

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Speaker 2: where every single person's book was like such a similar

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Speaker 2: format because we all were speaking to this I had

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Speaker 2: this aha moment, and I hope that you know, we

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Speaker 2: don't all need to have that to sort of but

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Speaker 2: I do take your point that for some people you

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Speaker 2: don't take it seriously until you know you're at risk,

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Speaker 2: and so that information can be really empowering. So I absolutely,

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Speaker 2: in no way, anyone listening I'm encouraging you not to

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Speaker 2: get a DNA test to get more information if that

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Speaker 2: is the path it's all about. And the same with

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Speaker 2: anything in life. It's all about knowing your own incentivization

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Speaker 2: and motivations and hacking the way you do your life

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Speaker 2: around yourself, not around other people's, which is I've always

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Speaker 2: found really fascinating.

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Speaker 1: I often think back to, like if my dad hadn't

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Speaker 1: have had that experience, Let's say I was twenty five

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Speaker 1: and someone sat me down and said, these are all

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Speaker 1: of the principles of a healthy lifestyle and ways that

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Speaker 1: you can reduce your risk of chronic disease A, because

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't have gone through that first hand experience with

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Speaker 1: my dad. I'm not sure how engaged I would have

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Speaker 1: been in that conversation and then be how much discipline

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Speaker 1: and motivation or intention would I actually have to go

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Speaker 1: away and make those changes and see them through. And

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Speaker 1: I say intention because it requires intention. We live in

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Speaker 1: an environment that makes it very easy to be unhealthy,

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Speaker 1: and you know, versus some of the longest living populations

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Speaker 1: in the world, it's not that these people just have,

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Speaker 1: you know, magically more willpower. They just live in an

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Speaker 1: environment where the healthy decision is usually the affordable and

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Speaker 1: also the easy decision. But we live in like a maze,

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Speaker 1: and so like there's all of these indulgent things trying

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Speaker 1: to pull us off track away from.

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Speaker 2: Health, all the shiny things, right, all.

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Speaker 1: The shiny objects, and all this temptation. And so you

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Speaker 1: need to have some intention. And when there is a

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Speaker 1: strong why underneath that intention, because you've had this health

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Speaker 1: experience yourself or a family member has, then I think

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Speaker 1: you're more likely to kind of have that intention sort

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Speaker 1: of front of mind as you're navigating your way through

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Speaker 1: the world.

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Speaker 2: And one thing I think you said in the Imperfect

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Speaker 2: podcast is that you know when you are twenty five

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Speaker 2: and you hear that someone had a heart attack at

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Speaker 2: forty one, You're like, well, forty one's ancient, And now

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Speaker 2: we're all closer to forty one than we are to five,

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Speaker 2: And suddenly it's all like Jesus, when did we get here?

439
00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:00,040
Speaker 2: But you know, one thing that I think is so

440
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,400
Speaker 2: powerful about you is the way that you deliver scientific

441
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,399
Speaker 2: information that is incredibly powerful. It is sometimes delivered in

442
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,119
Speaker 2: a way that removes so much of the power of

443
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 2: it in its message because it's there's so much noise,

444
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 2: it's all conflicting, there's no context, it's not distilled, and

445
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 2: it's also not reframed to suit the short attention span

446
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,439
Speaker 2: of the generation it's meant to target. Whereas you have

447
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 2: cut through and been able to like one of your

448
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 2: last episode, the one of the last episodes, the title

449
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 2: is this food swap could cut your risk of early

450
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 2: death by seventeen percent. Who is not going to click

451
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 2: on that. You don't have to be forty one to think, Jeesus,

452
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,200
Speaker 2: I could be doing something that risks an early death

453
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 2: and I could reduce that, Like your your capacity for

454
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:46,159
Speaker 2: deliveries is so incredible. But before we get to that,

455
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,919
Speaker 2: and some of the messages that I'd love our listeners

456
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,879
Speaker 2: to walk away with some kind of spark. What I

457
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 2: think is even more interesting about what you said about

458
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 2: twenty five is that it wasn't until twenty five, twenty

459
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 2: six to twenty seven for you that I mean, you'd

460
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 2: been a physiotherapist. You hadn't actually done your nutrition studies

461
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 2: until your twenties, and at the time that probably felt late.

462
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:12,199
Speaker 2: That probably felt like you were behind. You know, you'd

463
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 2: not been in this industry when other people had started

464
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 2: their first degree in nutrition. What was it like to

465
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 2: start again? You know, we have this fear of going

466
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 2: backwards and self doubt to be a beginner, and I

467
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 2: think people don't think they can begin something like later.

468
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 2: You know, if you didn't do it is your first degree,

469
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 2: it's like, well, I'm too late. I don't think it's

470
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,120
Speaker 2: ever too late. But what went through your head when

471
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 2: you did go back to the beginning and start as

472
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 2: a sort of newbie because your wellness had been more

473
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 2: biomechanical until then.

474
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 3: You're too old, it's too late, being silly. The critic

475
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 3: was pretty loud.

476
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 1: And then I had the same voice again when I

477
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 1: started the podcast and I said, you know, earlier we

478
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 1: were talking offair, like we started in twenty eighteen, and

479
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: at the time I was I thought it's too late.

480
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,360
Speaker 1: And in the last year I've picked the guitar back

481
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,919
Speaker 1: up and I want to start singing as well with

482
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 1: that and so same voice again, way too old.

483
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 3: You're nearly forty, Like, what are you doing kind of.

484
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 2: Thing over the heill mate over the hill.

485
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,440
Speaker 1: If you're not putting yourself in the position where you're

486
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 1: a beginner and you feel that challenge and the butterflies,

487
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 1: then you're limiting your growth. And I've certainly had periods

488
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 1: in my life where I'm uber comfortable, you know, and

489
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 1: everything just feels super comfy and good, and that's okay.

490
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: But I think every now and then you need to

491
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 1: do a bit of an audit, and you know, where

492
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,159
Speaker 1: are you holding back? And I knew I wanted to

493
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 1: better understand nutrition. I knew that it was a gap

494
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 1: in my knowledge of understanding the human body, and it

495
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 1: just required me to get over those nerves, to get

496
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: over the fact that I was going to be a

497
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: little older going back to university, and to kind of

498
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: swallow my price, so to speak, and throw myself back

499
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 1: into it, and to be honest, looking back now, it's

500
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: like what I went and did a master's in nutrition science,

501
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 1: and I was in my mid to late twenties.

502
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 3: It's not that old.

503
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 2: Oh it's so young.

504
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 1: I've even considered maybe going back and doing a PhD.

505
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: So I think certainly have had the inn a critic

506
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 1: to answer your question, and a lot of doubt and

507
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: whether it was a good idea or not.

508
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 3: But the more.

509
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: I've thrown myself back into these positions where I'm learning

510
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,479
Speaker 1: something from scratch and I'm a beginner, I realized that

511
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: it's what actually what I love is being a life

512
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,400
Speaker 1: learner and realizing how much more I have to learn,

513
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,400
Speaker 1: and also just how amazing we all are. We can

514
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: all learn so much more than we think, and I

515
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 1: think that's really really cool. You know, twelve months ago,

516
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: I couldn't play the guitar at all. Now I can

517
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: play and it's pretty crappy.

518
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 2: But in a year you'll be headlining Coachella.

519
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,880
Speaker 1: Maybe it's semi decent and I could be at Coachella.

520
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 1: I joke around my friend, you could sell out Madison Square.

521
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 2: Got it a hundred percent, one hundred percent, so you

522
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 2: could maybe be the intersection of like music and stats

523
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 2: about health, Like maybe there could be some kind of

524
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 2: like I talk about effiicient delivery. Maybe it's through music,

525
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 2: like who even knows?

526
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 3: Could be Yeah, yeah, whatever gets people listening it. I'm gay.

527
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 2: So I mean, I went back to our dms before

528
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 2: we started recording, and I think the first one was

529
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 2: like maybe back in twenty eighteen when we did first

530
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 2: start our podcast. Maybe a little bit before that, but

531
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 2: I think through my husband Nick, I think you'd known

532
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 2: him for quite a while before that as well. So

533
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:40,640
Speaker 2: we've kind of crossed paths many many times. And one

534
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 2: of our biggest chapters in parallel was having plant based

535
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 2: venues in a landscape where that wasn't really a thing.

536
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 2: I think we've actually been, you know, thinking about you

537
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 2: thought you started late in twenty eighteen. It was so

538
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 2: early that compared to now, that was so early in

539
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 2: the health and wellness industry. It was such a time.

540
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 2: Looking back, we had Matromaiden and Matrimilk Bar and you

541
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:09,199
Speaker 2: had Eden, and I just looking back at that time

542
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 2: and how far we've come, and I have so many

543
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 2: questions for you. But first I want to go back

544
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 2: to the fact that we both really focused our plant

545
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 2: based messaging, as you mentioned before, about these ancient civilizations

546
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 2: around the blue zones and longevity, and took the animal

547
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 2: rights ethics based the heat of those arguments away to

548
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 2: kind of hitch to people who weren't eating plants, because

549
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 2: it creates more change to serve a plant based meal

550
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 2: to a non vegan than it does to a vegan.

551
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 2: And I loved that we were doing that in parallel

552
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 2: with each other. When you did first sort of start

553
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 2: eating more plants, you were a very heavy meat eater

554
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 2: who had been in a very sporty, protein heavy lifestyle beforehand.

555
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 2: Can you talk to us about some of the heaviest

556
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 2: eye opening statistics or facts that you learned that spark

557
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 2: that change for you, and that now you wish you

558
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 2: know more people knew, because I still think people. I

559
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 2: can't believe how many customers would come in and just

560
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 2: have no idea why they needed to be They just

561
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 2: didn't understand why we needed to be eating more plants.

562
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 2: They did it because we had a cool looking latte.

563
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 2: But like that behavior change, what changed it for you?

564
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: I think when you look at the totality of evidence,

565
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 1: and when I say totality of evidence, I mean essentially

566
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: bench top science, so being at the sort of bottom

567
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 1: of the evidence hierarchy, which is scientists working with peagery

568
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 1: dishes and sort of sell cultures, and then animal studies,

569
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: and then you go up or wrong and you're with

570
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: large scale human observational studies. So it could be populations

571
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: in America or in Japan or in parts of Europe

572
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 1: where there's one hundred thousands of people followed over decades.

573
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 1: And then above that you go to randomized controlled trials

574
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: where they're often conducted you know, over weeks to months.

575
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: It's a bit expensive to conduct them for longer than that.

576
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: When you look at all of that evidence related to nutrition,

577
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 1: while there's not one absolute diet that's clearly the best

578
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: for everyone, there is a very clear theme or sort

579
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: of big over overview picture of what a healthy dietary

580
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 1: pattern looks like. And it's a diet that is low

581
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: and saturated fat. It's rich in these unsaturated fats, it's

582
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: high in fiber, it has more plant protein than animal

583
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: protein compared to the average diet today, and it's lower

584
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: ultra processed foods. And what that looks like in terms

585
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: of diets that people might be familiar with, is anything

586
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 1: from a Mediterranean diet done well. People might have heard

587
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: of the Dash diet, which was this very plant based

588
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 1: diet that has been used in research for lowering blood

589
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: pressure and risk of cuttivascular disease. It could be a

590
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: pescatarian diet, or it could be a whole food plant

591
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 1: based diet. All of the those diets that I just

592
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,959
Speaker 1: listed there, well, some of them are omnivorous and have

593
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: animal foods, and certainly there is room for animal foods

594
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: and healthy diet. It goes all the way to a

595
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 1: whole food plant based diet that's plants exclusive. The commonality

596
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: is the theme that I mentioned at the beginning, which

597
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 1: is low saturated fat, rich and unsaturated fats, high fiber,

598
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: a good amount of plant protein, and low and ultra

599
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: processed foods. And what all of those diets achieve through

600
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 1: that theme is optimization of blood pressure, blood glucose control, cholesterol, inflammation,

601
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: insolent sensitivity, all of these risk factors that we know

602
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: are driving the cardiometabolic diseases and cancer, so cancers, fatty

603
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: livid disease, type two diabetes, cardiabascar disease, dementia, all of

604
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: the big chronic diseases that are robbing people of healthy

605
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 1: years of life are influenced by those risk factors. And

606
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: when you eat in this manner, particularly over decades, you're

607
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: optimizing those risk factors and dramatically lowering your risk. And

608
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: so for me, as a heavy meat eater, it was

609
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,959
Speaker 1: kind of impossible to ignore that because meat is pulling

610
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: you in the opposite direction, and dose is important. Like

611
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: I said, you can have some meat in a plant

612
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 1: rich diet and you're still optimizing all those factors that

613
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: I mentioned. But when meat is the star of the plate,

614
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: particularly at every meat at every meal, particularly fatty cuts

615
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 1: of meat like I was eating, and you're eating a

616
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: lot of butter and high fat dairy, then you're increasing

617
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:46,719
Speaker 1: your cholesterol, you're reducing your impairing blood glucose control, you

618
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 1: can increase inflammation. You see less diversity of the microbiome,

619
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: which affects a myriad of risk factors as well. And

620
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: so it was just learning that and understanding what a

621
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: healthy dietary pattern looks like. That provided a lot of

622
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: food for thought for me, and I had to reflect

623
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: on it, and I was very resistant. I didn't want

624
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: to change at the beginning, and I think that if

625
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: I hadn't had that experience with my dad, I don't

626
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: think I would have made the changes in my twenties.

627
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 1: But I had a very strong reason to make changes

628
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: and to improve these risk factors because I knew that

629
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 1: my genes were probably stacked against me, and so I

630
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: needed to do whatever I could to make sure that

631
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: they weren't being expressed in a way where I was

632
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 1: going to have a heart attack.

633
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, coming back to that idea that not

634
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 2: everyone does have that kind of why in built into

635
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 2: their story. That does you know, create behavior change in

636
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 2: a society where it's very difficult, Like if you live

637
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 2: in one of the blue zones, it's not hard to

638
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 2: eat that way because everyone's eating that way, and that's

639
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 2: what's available to you. If you had the ear of

640
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 2: someone for sort of three key things that you could

641
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 2: tell them about the way they're eating, that might shock

642
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 2: some change into people's you know, coming back to that

643
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 2: episode the food swap that could cut your risk of

644
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 2: early death by seventeen percent? Firstly, what is that? And secondly,

645
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 2: you know what a couple of other big changes you

646
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 2: could begin with even that you know could have a

647
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 2: dramatic improvement on your health.

648
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: So in terms of disease and chronic disease, the first

649
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 1: thing I would make clear to people is it's not

650
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: like these diseases just occur overnight. They are bubbling away

651
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 1: under the surface for decades. You're in your twenties now,

652
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 1: if you're eating a diet that's very high and saturated

653
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 1: fat like I was, low in fiber, low and unsitrated fats,

654
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: you are more than likely laying down plak fatty pluk

655
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 1: in your arteries right, which is not just going to

656
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 1: affect your heart, that's affecting blood flow to all organs

657
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 1: in your body, including your brain. And so the earlier

658
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 1: you make changes, the healthier your arteries are going to be.

659
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: So that's how I would just keep it very very simple.

660
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 1: For someone it's not just someone who has genes like

661
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 1: me that has a predisposition to cardiovascular disease. Cardiovascular disease

662
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 1: is the number one cause of death in Australia for

663
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 1: men and women. So everyone is predisposed to it, and

664
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 1: everyone dies with atherosclerosis, which is the build up of

665
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,359
Speaker 1: plaque in their arteri, but not everyone.

666
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 3: Dies because of it.

667
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,359
Speaker 1: So let me say that again, everyone dies with it,

668
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: but not everyone dies because of it. There is a

669
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 1: natural progression of authorosclerosis as humans age, but you can

670
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 1: limit the rate of that progression and how much plark

671
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 1: is being laid down. You don't want to be walking

672
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: around and going to bed every night and having significant

673
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: amount of inflammation in the arteri wall and plaque building up.

674
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: That's predisposing you to having a heart attack or perhaps

675
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 1: even worse a stroke from a physical impairment point of view.

676
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: And so the biggest food swaps that someone can make,

677
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 1: let's say the Australian diet, like what are the biggest

678
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,399
Speaker 1: leavers that people can focus on to look after their

679
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: vascular health, but also would say is eat more fiber.

680
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 1: And the average Australian is eating about twelve to fifteen

681
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: grams of fiber per day, but that really should be

682
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 1: at thirty grams or higher. Now, fiber is found in

683
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 1: all plant foods, and we are going into too much detail.

684
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 1: It affects many of those risk factors that I reeled

685
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 1: off before. But the really important thing to understand about

686
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: about fiber and prebiotics in particular, probiotics is just a

687
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 1: fancy way of saying compounds in your meals that you

688
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 1: eat that are not absorbed in the small intestine, they

689
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 1: pass through to the large intestine and they feed the

690
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: microbes the thirty eight trillion bactery in your gut. Those

691
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: prebiotics vary from plant food to plant food to plant food,

692
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: So the probiotics that are in broccoli are different to

693
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,840
Speaker 1: those in artochokes, are different again to those in potato,

694
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,839
Speaker 1: are different again to those that are in carrot. And

695
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 1: one of the best predictors of gut health, which directly

696
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: affects things like inforammation in cholesterol, is having a diversity

697
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: of plants in the diet. And there was a very

698
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 1: big study called the Gut Health Microbiome Project a few

699
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 1: years back that looked at the diversity of the microbiome

700
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 1: in ten thousand plus subjects who sent in poop samples

701
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,399
Speaker 1: and also cataloged how they ate. It's a lot of poop, Yeah,

702
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 1: it's a lot of poop, and also cataloged how these

703
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 1: people were eating. The best predictor of a diverse microbiome

704
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 1: was not whether someone was vegan, pescatarian, whatever. The dietary

705
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 1: label didn't matter. The best predictor was whether someone ate

706
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:40,400
Speaker 1: thirty unique plants a week or not. And so my

707
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 1: number one piece of advice for this young person is

708
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 1: increase your plant diversity. Forget about removing things right now,

709
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 1: because by the time you increase your plant diversity and

710
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 1: get up to thirty unique plants a week. And I

711
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 1: encourage people to grab their journal or no pad and

712
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 1: just see where you land next week, probably landing about

713
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 1: ten to twelve, I bet most people. And that's because

714
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 1: we tend to eat the same plants every day.

715
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 2: I absolutely do that, right.

716
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 1: So you find and this is an order I have

717
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 1: to do myself. I have to keep coming back to

718
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: it because I go back to eating the same plant foods.

719
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: But remember these plant foods. Although we like to simplify

720
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 1: fiber as one thing, it's not like. There are many

721
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: different types of prebiotics and they're feeding different type species

722
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: of bacteria, all of which have different and very important

723
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,359
Speaker 1: roles in our gut. So you can do an order,

724
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 1: see how many unique plants you have, and then try

725
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: and increase over time. You can do this over weeks

726
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 1: and months, try and get up to eating thirty unique

727
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 1: plants a week, and that's going to do wonders for

728
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: your microbiome. Fire has other effects beyond the microbiome that

729
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 1: are going to be beneficial, and at the same time,

730
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: I bet by adding all of those in, you end

731
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: up eating a little bit less animal foods, and so

732
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,799
Speaker 1: saturated fat comes down, and the type of plant foods

733
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: I'm talking about are whole or minimally processed, so fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, legumes,

734
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 1: whole grains, and by version of that, you eat a little.

735
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 3: Less ultra processed foods.

736
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,760
Speaker 1: So just focusing on that one thing can really straighten

737
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: up the diet and optimize a number of these really

738
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: important risk factors without having to think about too much.

739
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:25,280
Speaker 2: I love that it kind of has flow and effects

740
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 2: without you actually having to focus on three different goals.

741
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 2: It's like, do this and by nature of try to

742
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 2: introduce that many things, you'll kind of you end up

743
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 2: with all these other benefits. What about some and this

744
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 2: must be particularly as someone with as much sort of

745
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 2: depth of research, with deep qualifications, but also really a

746
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 2: long long history of working with experts and engaging deeply

747
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 2: with the science. What are some of the biggest and

748
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 2: most frustrating misconceptions that you see in the landscape at

749
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 2: the moment.

750
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 1: I think you mentioned at the outset that there there's

751
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 1: a lot of conflicting information on social media, and you

752
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 1: also use the word context, and those are two really

753
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: important words. So what frustrates me is that I believe

754
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 1: many people, thanks to social media and the type of

755
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 1: information that is on social media about nutrition, I kind

756
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 1: of left in this position where they think that there's

757
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,839
Speaker 1: a lot of conflicting information in nutrition science and it's

758
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 1: sort of all over the place, and scientists just haven't

759
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 1: worked this out, and so I end up just kind

760
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 1: of throwing their hands up in the air and thinking,

761
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 1: I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing because

762
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 1: everyone's arguing, right, and I actually understand and empathize with them,

763
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 1: and I don't blame you, like if you're in that position,

764
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 1: I get it. That's why I went back and did

765
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 1: my masters, because I was in that position. Even with

766
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:55,760
Speaker 1: an undergraduate degree that involves science learning how to read

767
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 1: peer reviewed literature, I didn't have the specific skills to

768
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:03,479
Speaker 1: make sense of nutrition science. And so the one thing

769
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: that I would say to that person is that while

770
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 1: it seems like all the information is conflicting, it only

771
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 1: seems that way because the context is missing, and so

772
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 1: it's very easy for me to go and find a

773
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: study and say study show And that's why you see

774
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,839
Speaker 1: everyone saying study show, study show, study show, study show

775
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 1: about all these these things that people are saying are

776
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 1: completely contradictory. How can studies show things that are the

777
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 1: exact opposite, right? And the reason is because the context

778
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 1: is missing. Who are we talking about? Are we talking

779
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,359
Speaker 1: about a twenty five year old athlete? Are we talking

780
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,439
Speaker 1: about a postmenopausal woman? What food are we talking about?

781
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 1: Are we talking about red meat? What type of red

782
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: meat are we talking about? What dose are you talking about?

783
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 1: Because like red meat, what does that actually mean? Are

784
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 1: you talking about someone that's eating thirty grams a day

785
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 1: or we're talking about someone that's eating eighty grams a

786
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 1: day or one hundred and fifty grams a day. And

787
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: also nutrition is a little different other areas of science,

788
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:06,240
Speaker 1: particularly from a place Ebo perspective. When you are trying

789
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: to determine the effect of a food, let's say red meat,

790
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 1: you have to compare it to something so compared to

791
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: what are you comparing red meat to ultra processed foods?

792
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 1: Are you comparing red meat to whole grains. Are you

793
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: comparing red meat to legumes? And now all of a sudden,

794
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: and there's way more than that. I hope the listener understands, like,

795
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 1: there's really important context. And when you understand that context,

796
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: these studies that seem contradictory, they're not actually contradictory. It's

797
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 1: actually quite easily explained. So I think that's the most

798
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 1: frustrating thing that I would say is just that social media.

799
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 1: You alluded to it earlier. It's all about the clickbait.

800
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 1: How much emotion can you kind of generate in a

801
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 1: twenty or thirty second clip, And often that doesn't lend

802
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 1: itself well to a more nuanced position that contains the context,

803
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 1: and it leads to the absolute or sensational kind of

804
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 1: position is what gets shared and amplified. And this is

805
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 1: like an extension of what frustrates me is that I

806
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,760
Speaker 1: think as a society we're losing track of what science

807
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 1: is and what it means to communicate science objectively and effectively.

808
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 1: And so when I'm looking for someone who is a

809
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: science communicator that I'm going to trust, it's not the

810
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:29,439
Speaker 1: person who is using absolute language. I want to hear

811
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 1: the person who understands their limits, what we do know,

812
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 1: what we don't know. I want to hear a little

813
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 1: bit of hesitation. I want to hear them say I

814
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 1: don't know. Words I think need to be repopularized, right

815
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:46,319
Speaker 1: because science fundamentally requires a ton of humility, and so

816
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 1: it's frustrating for me to see sort of deep convictions,

817
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 1: often from people who are not directly in the science field,

818
00:43:54,520 --> 00:44:01,399
Speaker 1: and I think the public conflates that conviction with credibility,

819
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,839
Speaker 1: whereas for me, credibility is.

820
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 3: As I mentioned, is a little bit you know.

821
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,280
Speaker 1: I'm looking for that person who says words like perhaps

822
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 1: or maybe or but we need to consider this context

823
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 1: and adding caveats, And that's not as sexy and probably

824
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,919
Speaker 1: isn't going to go as viral in the podcast world

825
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 1: or in the reels, but it's actually it's just more responsible.

826
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 3: That's how science should be.

827
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 2: And that leads really nicely into my next question, which

828
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:35,479
Speaker 2: is also kind of more relevant in the social media age,

829
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 2: where people want absolutes and they want clickbaiting sentences without

830
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:43,880
Speaker 2: context that are sexy, and part of that is an

831
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 2: immense pressure, I think to never change your mind like

832
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 2: you've been on social media as long as I've been

833
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 2: on social media, and not only have we changed and

834
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,720
Speaker 2: the world's changed, the nature of science is that it changes.

835
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 2: Like yes, it operates in absolutes in the moment, but

836
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:01,800
Speaker 2: I mean our unders standing of life over the course

837
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 2: of all of science has gone from whole opposite conclusions

838
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 2: because our technology advances, because the way we understand. You know,

839
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 2: there's so many reasons why things change. Have you felt

840
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:16,440
Speaker 2: pressure in a world where you have a million followers?

841
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 2: That is an enormous amount of people who are listening

842
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 2: very closely to everything you do. Have you ever felt

843
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 2: pressure to not change your mind on something to be

844
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 2: the same person over the history of your lifetime on

845
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 2: social media? And has there been anything that you've changed

846
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 2: your mind on or that science has changed its mind

847
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 2: on that you've had to kind of learn to deliver

848
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 2: that too to your audience.

849
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:44,320
Speaker 3: I've definitely changed my mind on quite a few things.

850
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,800
Speaker 3: We can get into that. But I agree with you again,

851
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:52,839
Speaker 3: I think that changing your mind for some people that

852
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,360
Speaker 3: might be seen as this person is foot flopping or

853
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 3: doesn't know their stuff right, and it could be seen

854
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,720
Speaker 3: as as like a weakness rather than being a strength

855
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,360
Speaker 3: for someone. But I think it's it is a strength.

856
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 1: Now, you don't want to see someone flip flopping day

857
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 1: to day because the science in the sensus is not

858
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 1: changing day to day and our consensus and sort of

859
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:20,839
Speaker 1: understanding of science. But in this case nutrition science, there

860
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:24,360
Speaker 1: is course corrections, but it's shaped over years and decades.

861
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 1: So it is very rare that all of a sudden

862
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 1: you wake up and everything's slipped on its head, and

863
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 1: you know, we learn tomorrow that the best diet is

864
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:31,800
Speaker 1: just eating salami.

865
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 3: That's a little bit of a red flag. Now.

866
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 1: Sure, there are things like over the last ten years

867
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 1: where I've changed my mind, and some of it's been

868
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 1: a slow progression where a study comes out.

869
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,800
Speaker 3: And you're like, huh, that's actually interesting, it's.

870
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 1: Making me think about this in another way, And then

871
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 1: another study comes in, another study, and I'd say dairy

872
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 1: is one of those, because over the last five years

873
00:46:55,320 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: there's been quite a few publications suggesting that at least

874
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,240
Speaker 1: when you remove butter from that, because you've got to remember,

875
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 1: dairy is such a diverse range of foods, Like what

876
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 1: does that actually mean? Because it's everything from butter to

877
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:13,880
Speaker 1: ice ice cream with lots of refined sugars to Greek yogurt,

878
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 1: to fermented types of dairy which have probiotics, live cultures,

879
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 1: you know, very different. Again, and when researchers have got

880
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,320
Speaker 1: a little bit more granular and instead of just analyzing

881
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 1: dairy as a kind of big umbrella group, you see

882
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:31,719
Speaker 1: that certainly well, butter, at least compared to oils like

883
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 1: olive oil, increases risk CUTI of ascular disease. So I

884
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:37,240
Speaker 1: think that's another swap that people could make as simple

885
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 1: one is eat a little less butter a little more

886
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 1: Olive oil particularly have high cholesterol. What we've been able

887
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:49,759
Speaker 1: to see is that yogurt and cheese, particularly fermented cheese,

888
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 1: actually associates with improvements in cardiovascular health. So a little

889
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 1: bit of nuance that I guess I've added over the

890
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:02,279
Speaker 1: years is that not all dairy is the same, and

891
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 1: even the saturated fats that exist in dairy do not

892
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:09,759
Speaker 1: behave the same as saturated fats in red meat. And

893
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 1: so I just sort of simplified it earlier saying we

894
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 1: want to eat less saturated fat, and if we wanted

895
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:17,359
Speaker 1: to double click on that, I'm conscious of time, but

896
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 1: saturated fat is actually not one thing, just like fiber.

897
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 1: It's saturated fats. There are different types and they have

898
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: different effects on physiology, and the real saturated fats that

899
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 1: you want to reduce are the ones in red meat

900
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 1: or in butter. And you might be thinking, well, how

901
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 1: can the saturated fats in butter be different to yoga

902
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:41,800
Speaker 1: and cheese. It's very simple. When you refine the dairy down,

903
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:45,319
Speaker 1: you bust open what's called a milk fat globule, and

904
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 1: that milk fat globule sort of liberates the saturated fats

905
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 1: in dairy, and so they have this much more amplified

906
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 1: effect on cholesterol, whereas in yogurt and in cheese, where

907
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:01,920
Speaker 1: they're not as refined, the milk fat globule remains intact

908
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:07,320
Speaker 1: and it limits the effect that saturated fat has on cholesterol.

909
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,719
Speaker 1: So while you know, ten years ago, a lot of

910
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:13,799
Speaker 1: people just looking at the nutritional profile of yogurt and

911
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 1: cheese would have a hypothesis that this is going to

912
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 1: really jack up cholesterol, doesn't actually seem to play out

913
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 1: like that, And in large population studies, those two types

914
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: of dairy seem to be either neutral or positive for

915
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 1: cardiovascular health. That's something where I've changed my view over

916
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 1: the years. And that's not saying that you have to

917
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 1: consume dairy. Someone might be like to its intolerant or

918
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:41,760
Speaker 1: just choose not to consume dairy for ethical or environmental reasons,

919
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 1: which are are valid. But you then would want to

920
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 1: really focus on what are you consuming instead, And so

921
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 1: dairy it's a great source of protein, it's a really

922
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 1: good source of calcium, and probably the effects on cardiovascular

923
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 1: health are because of calcium. So if you're someone who

924
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 1: is a avoiding yogurt, is avoiding cheese, you want to

925
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 1: make sure that the replacement foods you're consuming have a

926
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:10,320
Speaker 1: similar amount of calcium, or else you're getting enough calcium

927
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 1: somewhere else in the diet. You wouldn't want to be

928
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:17,360
Speaker 1: not consuming dairy and then under consuming your daily amount

929
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 1: of calcium, if that makes sense.

930
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 3: So the replacement, the replacement matters somewhere else.

931
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 1: I've changed my mind a little bit is ultra processed

932
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 1: foods and the way in which they are affecting disease.

933
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 1: So there's been a lot of research over the last

934
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 1: kind of decade, but particularly in the last five years,

935
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:41,319
Speaker 1: and I've had some of these scientists on my show

936
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 1: trying to really unravel like what is it about ultra

937
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 1: processed foods that is driving obesity? Because we know that

938
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 1: people who eat more ultra processed foods tend to be

939
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 1: overweight or obese, or have a higher risk of being

940
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 1: overweight or obese. And there's been all these different kind

941
00:50:59,920 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 1: of hypotheses out there looking at this, and you know,

942
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 1: people have speculated maybe it's like the amount of sugar

943
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 1: or fat or sodium in these foods. And there was

944
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:17,439
Speaker 1: some really interesting work done by Kevin Hole about five

945
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:21,920
Speaker 1: years ago now where he compared in metabolic ward bringing

946
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: people into a you know, essentially like a prison but

947
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 1: a hospital setting, whether you feed people food and you

948
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 1: know everything they eat and you can do all the

949
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:34,280
Speaker 1: measurements there, whereas you know, when you conduct these studies

950
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 1: at home and they're free living, it's a little bit

951
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:39,360
Speaker 1: hard relying on people doing exactly what you say.

952
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 2: And reporting it correctly.

953
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is like a very controlled study. You know

954
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:46,879
Speaker 1: exactly what people are eating. And he had he had

955
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 1: two diets, this ultra processed diet and this unprocessed diet,

956
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 1: but they were matched for all of those things that

957
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 1: I just mentioned, like protein and fiber and salt and sugar, okay,

958
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:02,720
Speaker 1: so only difference that some of these foods were ultra

959
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:06,959
Speaker 1: processed and the others were unprocessed. And for about two

960
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:11,799
Speaker 1: weeks they had every participant eat the unprocessed foods and

961
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 1: then have a little bit of a break and then

962
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:17,279
Speaker 1: eat the ultra processed foods or in the opposite order,

963
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:20,319
Speaker 1: so every participant got to do both diets, and the

964
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 1: instructions were just to eat until you're full. And what

965
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:27,239
Speaker 1: they found was despite matching all of those macronutrients and

966
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 1: sodium and fiber, people ate about five hundred calories.

967
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 3: More per day on the ultra processed diet.

968
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 1: So then that kind of leaves you wondering, well, what's

969
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 1: driving this, and so the hypothesis from that was that

970
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 1: it's probably calorie density, so the amount of calories per bite,

971
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:51,280
Speaker 1: which affects your eating rate, how fast you can eat something.

972
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 1: And this was like building on other research done by

973
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 1: Barbara Rolls, who has been in this space for ten

974
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 1: or twenty years, so I need to make because of

975
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 1: her work kind of really paved the way for this,

976
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:07,480
Speaker 1: but there's been subsequence studies now that have again kind

977
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 1: of really confirmed that probably ultra processed foods are driving

978
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 1: excessive calorie consumption. Certainly by hyperpalatability, we know that they

979
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 1: kind of hijack the reward centers of the brain because

980
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 1: they're just overly delicious, but also by calorie density and

981
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:32,320
Speaker 1: eating rate. And there's this interesting sort of thing where

982
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 1: we all tend to eat the same amount of food

983
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:39,800
Speaker 1: by volume per day, right, but a kilogram of food

984
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 1: can be vastly different amount of calories depending on how

985
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 1: energy dense that food is.

986
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so the volume is what's consistent, but the

987
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:55,320
Speaker 2: calorie density is what varies.

988
00:53:56,080 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 1: Yes, And this has been borne out in many studies now,

989
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 1: so we can use this again. It doesn't really change

990
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 1: any of the advice set that we're giving here, because

991
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 1: it's why those dietary patterns. One of the reasons why

992
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:15,399
Speaker 1: that I reeled off before Mediterranean dash, pescatarian, whole food,

993
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 1: plant based. It's one of the reasons why time and

994
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 1: time again you see people eating that way are healthy,

995
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 1: body healthier body weight, because when you eat more of

996
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 1: those high fiber, high water plant foods, those are low

997
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:34,200
Speaker 1: calorie density foods, it lowers the total calorie density of

998
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 1: your overall dietary pattern. So when you eat a kilogram

999
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 1: of food, it contains less calories than if you're eating

1000
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 1: a kilogram of food that was animal foods and ultra processed.

1001
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 2: Right. So it's also like a satiation kind of measurement,

1002
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:52,280
Speaker 2: like what satisfies your hunger? Hunger?

1003
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:55,400
Speaker 3: Right, it's absolutely satiety related.

1004
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 2: Oh, that's the one satiation. Society is a better word.

1005
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:02,000
Speaker 1: Yes, you're right, though, you're absolutely right. So there are

1006
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 1: stretch receptors in your gut. So when you eat food

1007
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:08,359
Speaker 1: that is less calorie dense, if I give you five

1008
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 1: hundred calories of food that's less calorie dense than say

1009
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:14,799
Speaker 1: five hundred calories superclori dense, that's going to be a

1010
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 1: larger volume of food. It's going to stretch your stomach more,

1011
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 1: and it activates these stretch receptors which send a signal

1012
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 1: to your brain saying, hey, we're pretty good down here.

1013
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 1: You don't need to bring in any more calories.

1014
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:30,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, minor a bit diluted. They're a bit de lulu

1015
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 2: mine down there.

1016
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 1: And can I just add one little thing here because

1017
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 1: I think it's a neat tip, and it's from Barbaraoll's work.

1018
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:41,280
Speaker 1: She was really interested in this idea of energy density,

1019
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:45,840
Speaker 1: and she was the researcher responsible for what's called the

1020
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 1: preload strategy. So if someone's wanting to lose weight to

1021
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:53,240
Speaker 1: lower their risk of chronic disease or for whatever reason,

1022
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 1: it is a really helpful strategy is before you eat

1023
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:01,799
Speaker 1: your main meal, to eat a water based sort of

1024
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:07,480
Speaker 1: broth based soup or a large salad, providing that salad

1025
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:11,040
Speaker 1: doesn't have a whole lot of energy dense salad dressing

1026
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 1: on it. And in her studies, when they preloaded people

1027
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:18,960
Speaker 1: with either the soup or the salad, they ended up

1028
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:22,240
Speaker 1: eating fifteen to twenty percent less calories over that entire

1029
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 1: meal sitting, so including the preload. And it's likely because

1030
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:31,479
Speaker 1: it's activating those stretch receptors earlier in the meal.

1031
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 2: Oh, that's such a good tip. I've actually heard that before.

1032
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:38,759
Speaker 2: And also it's partly related to the timing, is that right, Like,

1033
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:41,360
Speaker 2: it takes twenty minutes for the messages of those stretch

1034
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:43,160
Speaker 2: receptors to get back to your brain. So it's like

1035
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:45,800
Speaker 2: if you gobble like I do and eat so quickly,

1036
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 2: that's why you overeat because you don't give yourself time

1037
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:54,160
Speaker 2: to realize the volume that's actually already in your stomach. Like,

1038
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 2: give it a minute.

1039
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:58,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one dredsent true. And I mean that's why

1040
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 1: ultra process foods are you super energy dense? You know

1041
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 1: we've all done it before. You can quickly take down

1042
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 1: you know, five hundred and seven hundred calories without even

1043
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:11,480
Speaker 1: knowing it. And also why if you're sitting in front

1044
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 1: of the TV, you know, before you know it, you've

1045
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:17,680
Speaker 1: scoffed down so much food. And there are a lot

1046
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 1: of researchers looking at exactly that and looking at mindful

1047
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 1: eating and slowing down and chewing slowly, and it is

1048
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 1: likely to lead to better appetite regulation.

1049
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:30,480
Speaker 2: For sure, I knew I would get to this point

1050
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 2: in the episode. I even began with knowing that my

1051
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:36,160
Speaker 2: biggest challenge today was distilling all of your wisdom and

1052
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 2: everything I wanted to ask you. I feel like I've

1053
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 2: covered like, not even one percent of all the things

1054
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:42,440
Speaker 2: in our brain. So it's lucky that our listeners can

1055
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 2: go to your own podcast and get three hundred and

1056
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:48,760
Speaker 2: sixty more episodes of wisdom from you and your incredible guests.

1057
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:53,080
Speaker 2: But if you did have to distill say three swaps

1058
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:57,880
Speaker 2: or practical tips that people could start with, now, what

1059
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 2: would you leave us with on top of what you've

1060
00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:03,640
Speaker 2: already so generously given us, but in like a SoundBite.

1061
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 1: Okay, before I give you the SoundBite, because I know

1062
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 1: that sometimes these conversations can be a little anxiety provoking

1063
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 1: for people focusing on food so much. I just want

1064
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:16,000
Speaker 1: to make it clear. This is about doing it in

1065
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 1: perfectly over decades, so the things that I say, it's

1066
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 1: not about getting it perfect every single day. And if

1067
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:25,320
Speaker 1: you do fall off the bandwagon on a day, no worries,

1068
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. Just do your best in the next

1069
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 1: food decision that you have the next day, and you're

1070
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 1: going to be fine. So I would say Number one

1071
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 1: is focus on the thirty unique plants? Can you get there?

1072
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 1: How many unique plants? So are you currently eating? Do

1073
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:40,280
Speaker 1: a bit of an order and see if you can

1074
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:43,640
Speaker 1: work your way up towards thirty unique plants. And I

1075
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:46,920
Speaker 1: didn't mention this before, but herbs and spices count oh nice.

1076
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:49,160
Speaker 1: So it can seem a little daunting at the beginning,

1077
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 1: but that makes it a little bit easier. Number two,

1078
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 1: for a swap, as I mentioned, would be swapping out

1079
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 1: cooking oils, cooking fats that are really rich and saturated fats,

1080
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:04,680
Speaker 1: particularly butter or ghee, even coconut oil and palm oil,

1081
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 1: and instead cooking with olive oil or avocado oil or

1082
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:13,000
Speaker 1: god forbid, seed oles, which I know are much maligned.

1083
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:14,360
Speaker 1: And maybe that's another episode.

1084
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, you have an episode on that. Actually I've saved

1085
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:18,200
Speaker 2: it for later.

1086
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:20,240
Speaker 1: I have an episode on that, so people can go

1087
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:22,120
Speaker 1: and check that out. But if we want to just

1088
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:26,640
Speaker 1: avoid arguments, swap those saturated fat rich googn oils for

1089
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:29,760
Speaker 1: olive oil, which is almost universally accepted as a healthy

1090
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:33,800
Speaker 1: cooking oil, or avocado oil. So that would be the

1091
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 1: first two and the third would just be about being

1092
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:45,080
Speaker 1: conscious of ultra processed foods. So there is room for

1093
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:48,800
Speaker 1: ultra processed foods in the diet. The main mechanism by

1094
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:51,600
Speaker 1: which ultra processed foods are causing disease, as I mentioned,

1095
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:57,920
Speaker 1: is through driving excess calorie consumption. So really, if someone's

1096
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:01,680
Speaker 1: overweight or obese, then these are things that you might

1097
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:04,360
Speaker 1: want to pay a little more attention to. But if

1098
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 1: you're metabolically healthy, you don't have chronic disease, you're active,

1099
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:13,280
Speaker 1: and ninety five percent of the time you're eating whole

1100
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:14,680
Speaker 1: minimally processed foods.

1101
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:17,400
Speaker 3: You know, a little bit of these ultra processed foods,

1102
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 3: having some ice cream here and there and whatnot, it's

1103
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 3: not going to kill you. And so yeah, overall, sixty

1104
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:27,520
Speaker 3: percent of Austrain's calories coming from ultra processed foods, so

1105
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:31,720
Speaker 3: across the board we can benefit massively by reducing them.

1106
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 3: But they're not toxic at any dose. So I just

1107
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:36,640
Speaker 3: want people to know.

1108
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:39,680
Speaker 2: That when you fall off, and I'm hoping that your

1109
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 2: answer is that you do occasionally, what are your guilty

1110
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:50,200
Speaker 2: pleasures everything, Well, that's good to know. That's very humanizing.

1111
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:53,360
Speaker 3: And yeah, I do.

1112
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:56,360
Speaker 1: I certainly do fall off, and I've gone through periods,

1113
01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:59,920
Speaker 1: to be completely honest with you, where I've probably do

1114
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:02,160
Speaker 1: well in a little bit of regret or shame or

1115
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:05,480
Speaker 1: guilt and being too focused on having the perfect diet.

1116
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:12,320
Speaker 1: And it's not worth the anxiety that comes along with that.

1117
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:15,400
Speaker 1: I think, I think chasing perfection is just impossible when

1118
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:17,480
Speaker 1: it comes to our diet, and so it sort of

1119
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:19,800
Speaker 1: sets us up for failure. And the problem with that

1120
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:22,640
Speaker 1: is when perfection is a goal and you don't meet it,

1121
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:26,120
Speaker 1: that's when people just stop altogether and give up. So

1122
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:30,840
Speaker 1: having this approach of just doing it imperfectly. It allows

1123
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:35,320
Speaker 1: you to be human. It allows you to be human. Right,

1124
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:39,920
Speaker 1: So for me, cookies, cakes, you know Brownie's ice cream cakes?

1125
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:40,800
Speaker 3: Love those?

1126
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 2: Well, you're a sweet too.

1127
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:46,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, anything sweet. You know, chocolate and you know a

1128
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:48,920
Speaker 1: little bit of chocolate's completely fine. But I can easily

1129
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 1: house way too much chocolate.

1130
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 2: House you can house so much stretch factor.

1131
01:01:56,600 --> 01:01:58,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just like everyone listening.

1132
01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:02,240
Speaker 1: I have my vices, and you know, I don't get

1133
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 1: it perfect every day, but you know, the foundations of

1134
01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:08,760
Speaker 1: my dieta there, and I'm not bashing myself up so

1135
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 1: much these days.

1136
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:13,280
Speaker 2: Oh that's good tonight. Oh my god, I couple of

1137
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:15,080
Speaker 2: if I've left out so much. I don't even talk.

1138
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:17,160
Speaker 2: We haven't talked about Center. We haven't talked. Maybe we

1139
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:19,320
Speaker 2: have to do a follow up episode. But just the

1140
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:22,960
Speaker 2: last question anytime you're in La, I love that. The

1141
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 2: occasional word. I'm like, oh, he's been there a long time.

1142
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:29,000
Speaker 2: There's an American Twain coming through. Just a few words.

1143
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:31,480
Speaker 2: What's next? Like do you come home? Are you going

1144
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 2: to come home? Or is home La? What's next for

1145
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 2: the proof you're going to be based there? Yeah, what's up?

1146
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:40,040
Speaker 2: What's happening.

1147
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:45,880
Speaker 1: What's next is probably Madison Square Garden and I'll be

1148
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:50,600
Speaker 1: there sewing that out home and this will sound corny.

1149
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:52,680
Speaker 3: Is where my partner is.

1150
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:56,920
Speaker 1: She's Californian, so it's true, and that's probably why I've

1151
01:02:56,920 --> 01:03:01,080
Speaker 1: picked up some American twain from spending so much time

1152
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:01,400
Speaker 1: with her.

1153
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:03,520
Speaker 2: Do you hear it or is it just us?

1154
01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 3: Yeah? I'm aware. I'm aware.

1155
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:09,000
Speaker 1: Like even when I say I'm aware, you aware. The

1156
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:12,360
Speaker 1: hours on water are like getting stronger and stronger. And

1157
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:16,400
Speaker 1: my dad has lived now in America, so in my

1158
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:19,439
Speaker 1: defense and I know over time, But in my defense, I.

1159
01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:21,200
Speaker 3: Lived in America from two till ten.

1160
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:24,919
Speaker 1: Oh wow, so first accent I had. Yeah, so we've

1161
01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:28,520
Speaker 1: left Melbourne. My dad did his post doc in Texas

1162
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:32,160
Speaker 1: and then Virginia. He was an assistant professor in Virginia,

1163
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 1: so I learned to speak in Texas. So, believe it

1164
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:40,160
Speaker 1: or not. Oh, I had a Southern American accent from

1165
01:03:40,360 --> 01:03:42,600
Speaker 1: two till ten that I came back to Australia.

1166
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:46,120
Speaker 3: I lost it because I wanted to fit in and.

1167
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:49,600
Speaker 2: You wanted to sell records. I mean obviously, yeah.

1168
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:51,760
Speaker 1: Now things are creeping back in, but I am trying

1169
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:55,080
Speaker 1: to maintain my Australian Accent podcast.

1170
01:03:55,360 --> 01:03:57,680
Speaker 3: I'm at three hundred and sixty episodes.

1171
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:03,840
Speaker 1: For me, it's aboutntinuing to find the academics in particular

1172
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:06,280
Speaker 1: that don't have a platform, that are kind of hidden

1173
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:10,680
Speaker 1: away at these conferences talking about fatty liver disease and diabetes,

1174
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:14,080
Speaker 1: and it's really arms length from you and from eye,

1175
01:04:14,360 --> 01:04:18,200
Speaker 1: and I love sitting down and often for the first time,

1176
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:21,200
Speaker 1: and like their family members will send me emails or

1177
01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:25,160
Speaker 1: messages because they didn't really understand what their dad or

1178
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:28,680
Speaker 1: mum did for the past thirty or forty years. So

1179
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:31,080
Speaker 1: it's a nice way to act as a bit of

1180
01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:34,880
Speaker 1: a tribute to them and their family, but also take

1181
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:37,240
Speaker 1: the incredible amount of information they have and share it

1182
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:42,480
Speaker 1: with people and just continue, I guess, to try and

1183
01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:47,640
Speaker 1: be a quality scientific voice in this space, you know, online,

1184
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:50,000
Speaker 1: where there's a lot of misinformation and a lot of

1185
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:53,760
Speaker 1: confusion that I think needs clearing up, just to help

1186
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:56,640
Speaker 1: people feel a little more confident with all of these

1187
01:04:56,880 --> 01:04:57,960
Speaker 1: decisions they're making.

1188
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:03,120
Speaker 2: Absolutely doing that, I mean, forty million downloads and counting

1189
01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:06,880
Speaker 2: is extraordinary and as I said a couple of times,

1190
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 2: you are uniquely able to package up information that is

1191
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:18,000
Speaker 2: not accessible to the average young, instagratuitous mind and make

1192
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:21,600
Speaker 2: it powerful and impactful. So you're doing wonderful, wonderful things

1193
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:24,480
Speaker 2: and will continue to follow along keenly. But just to

1194
01:05:24,520 --> 01:05:26,360
Speaker 2: finish up, do you have a favorite quote?

1195
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:28,800
Speaker 3: Oh? Favorite quote?

1196
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:32,240
Speaker 1: I love Ritual's quote at the moment, which is very

1197
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:35,160
Speaker 1: simple and that is mood follows action.

1198
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:38,560
Speaker 3: Ooh, mood follows action.

1199
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:40,320
Speaker 2: That's deep.

1200
01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:44,360
Speaker 3: I love rich I love him too. Yeah.

1201
01:05:44,800 --> 01:05:47,800
Speaker 2: I will also include a link to your episode on

1202
01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:49,680
Speaker 2: his podcast. When was that?

1203
01:05:49,840 --> 01:05:53,520
Speaker 1: I've been on his show a few times, so twenty

1204
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:56,520
Speaker 1: twenty one, I think, and then twenty twenty four.

1205
01:05:57,080 --> 01:05:59,760
Speaker 2: All right, what an amazing way to finish, Simon, Thank

1206
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:01,800
Speaker 2: you so much. I'll include links to everything in the

1207
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:04,520
Speaker 2: show notes for our listeners. If you don't already know Simon,

1208
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:07,040
Speaker 2: but I think most of you probably will, you can

1209
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:09,280
Speaker 2: go there to find out more. Thank you so much

1210
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:09,800
Speaker 2: for joining.

1211
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:11,480
Speaker 3: Thank you, Sarah, appreciate it.

1212
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:14,360
Speaker 2: You guys know, I love speaking to people about things

1213
01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:16,840
Speaker 2: that they love, and I could just feel how excited

1214
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:19,800
Speaker 2: Simon gets about the science of living well and wanting

1215
01:06:19,840 --> 01:06:22,680
Speaker 2: to convey that to us all, and he truly does

1216
01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:26,320
Speaker 2: so in such an impactful and accessible way, even when

1217
01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:30,000
Speaker 2: the science behind what he's saying is complicated or voluminous,

1218
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:32,840
Speaker 2: or as he said, sometimes it can appear conflicting. He's

1219
01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:36,400
Speaker 2: just got such a talent for making it accessible to

1220
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:39,360
Speaker 2: the everyday person. And I'll include links to all his platforms,

1221
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:41,840
Speaker 2: his book, his master classes in the show notes in

1222
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:45,120
Speaker 2: case you haven't already devoured everything that he's created. I'm

1223
01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:47,240
Speaker 2: guessing that some of you already have, but hopefully you

1224
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:50,080
Speaker 2: learn something new in this episode. If you did enjoy,

1225
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:53,120
Speaker 2: took something away, or even have further questions for him,

1226
01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:56,800
Speaker 2: please share and tag Simon It's at Simon Hill to

1227
01:06:56,840 --> 01:06:59,400
Speaker 2: thank him for his time. It truly means so much

1228
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:02,400
Speaker 2: to help growing our show and yighborhood as far and

1229
01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:05,600
Speaker 2: wide as possible, even seven or eight years in which

1230
01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:08,000
Speaker 2: is absolutely wild. It was nice to reflect with Simon

1231
01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:09,760
Speaker 2: on how long we've both been doing this and that

1232
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:12,120
Speaker 2: we still get to be here having these wonderful conversations.

1233
01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:13,880
Speaker 2: So thank you to you guys all as well for

1234
01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:16,680
Speaker 2: following along. In the meantime, I hope you're having a

1235
01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:28,440
Speaker 2: wonderful week and are seizing your yay