WEBVTT - How Holly Wainwright Reinvented Her Style After 50

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Mama Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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<v Speaker 2>that this podcast is recorded on. Hello, it's Holly Wayne

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<v Speaker 2>right here, and we are dropping an episode of a

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<v Speaker 2>show called Nothing to Wear in your midfeed. And if

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<v Speaker 2>you're wondering why look, indulge me because it was a

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<v Speaker 2>dream of mine to get to go and talk to

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<v Speaker 2>Lee Campbell about clothes for a little while. And she

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<v Speaker 2>asked me on because she's like, oh, you're fifty ish,

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<v Speaker 2>let's just say and you don't look terrible. I was

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<v Speaker 2>like what. So we have a chat about how I

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<v Speaker 2>approach clothes at this point of my life, how I

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<v Speaker 2>feel about my body and how I dress and how

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<v Speaker 2>I want to dress, and what's been easiest for me

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<v Speaker 2>to do. I'm not a fashionist, as many of you know,

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<v Speaker 2>but at the same time, I do love clothes. It's

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<v Speaker 2>just that I work with Meir Friedman and she loves

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<v Speaker 2>them more and sometimes it's hard to live up to that.

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<v Speaker 2>So anyway, here is an episode with me and Lee

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<v Speaker 2>talking about sidelines for your post fifty wardrobe. If you're

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<v Speaker 2>into that dress, how you want to dress, have a

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<v Speaker 2>great time listen to this and if you want to

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<v Speaker 2>hear more of Nothing to Wear wherever you get your podcasts,

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<v Speaker 2>go follow them in the feed. Lee every week drops

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<v Speaker 2>some serious fashion knowledge. We'll be back next week with

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<v Speaker 2>another episode of MID.

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<v Speaker 1>Whoever said orange is a new pink with seriously disturbed

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<v Speaker 1>laurels for spraying groundbreaking.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, you have to do it. You live

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<v Speaker 2>for fashion.

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<v Speaker 1>Hello, and welcome to Nothing to Wear, the podcast that

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<v Speaker 1>solves fashion problems and levels up your wardrobe. I'm Lee

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<v Speaker 1>Campbell and every week I chat to an expert who

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<v Speaker 1>helps us work out how to get more out of

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<v Speaker 1>the clothes we already own and tells us exactly what

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<v Speaker 1>is and isn't worth adding to our wardrobe. Polly Wayne

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<v Speaker 1>Right is a powerhouse for many reasons. She's a co

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<v Speaker 1>host on Mamma Me as flagship podcast Mama Me Are

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<v Speaker 1>Out Loud. She's the best selling author, she is the

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<v Speaker 1>host of one of my is new podcasts, Mid that

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<v Speaker 1>has blown the world away, and a woman who's been

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<v Speaker 1>shaping the way we talk about life, work and womanhood

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<v Speaker 1>for years. So today I'm asking Holly on for a

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<v Speaker 1>bit of a chat to a bit of an in conversation.

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<v Speaker 1>We're diving into something a little more personal, style, specifically

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<v Speaker 1>how to find your style when you're mid and how

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<v Speaker 1>your style evolves. If you've ever stood in front of

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<v Speaker 1>your wardrobe feeling like nothing fits literally or metaphorically, this

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<v Speaker 1>conversation is for you. Holly Waynwright, Hello, Lely, Welcome to

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<v Speaker 1>Nothing to Wear. So I asked, first time guests, can

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<v Speaker 1>you describe your style in three words?

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<v Speaker 2>This is embarrassing because we did this three words style

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<v Speaker 2>thing on out loud, and I can't remember what mine were,

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<v Speaker 2>but I think they were something like relaxed something. And

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<v Speaker 2>then it was suggested to me that one of them

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<v Speaker 2>should be French, and I got really into that and

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<v Speaker 2>then you to me, no, it shouldn't be French. I think, like,

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<v Speaker 2>if I have a picture of my head of what

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<v Speaker 2>I want to look like, right, I want to look

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<v Speaker 2>effortless but put together. Yes, And I'm really attracted to

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<v Speaker 2>a slightly boho vibe but not like hippie buttray of life. No.

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<v Speaker 2>And I love navy, I love colorful shoes. I love

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<v Speaker 2>a nice shirt like I don't know what's the word

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<v Speaker 2>for it, Lely.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know, but I think we're working on your

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<v Speaker 1>three words. Obviously we haven't got them. I don't have mine.

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<v Speaker 1>What is French in terms of a word, because Brenton

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<v Speaker 1>t long Sley, Brenton Tina Beret.

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<v Speaker 2>No, no, no no. If I was picking a style

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<v Speaker 2>icon of the last few years, it would be Sylvie

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<v Speaker 2>from Emily in Paris. Okay, now, not strictly speaking, because

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<v Speaker 2>she flashes a lot of flesh and I do not.

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<v Speaker 2>But she is an older woman, as am I.

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<v Speaker 1>I am now.

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<v Speaker 2>Officially fifty three, which is officially quite grown up. But

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<v Speaker 2>she doesn't conform to lots of rules. But she always

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<v Speaker 2>looks great, like I love she wears these and she's

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<v Speaker 2>in Paris, and she's in Paris, and she wears these

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<v Speaker 2>gorgeous like silk shirts. But you know that look, the

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<v Speaker 2>look I must spying Flora as a grown up is

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<v Speaker 2>she looks older. She's not trying to look twenty, and

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<v Speaker 2>I Am not trying to look twenty or dress twenty.

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<v Speaker 2>And there's all this thing about like, oh, we should

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<v Speaker 2>all be wearing what the gen Z's are wearing, and

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<v Speaker 2>I'm like, no, I want to look like a grown up,

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<v Speaker 2>but I don't want to look like I've given up.

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<v Speaker 1>Too matronly, which is a silly word in itself.

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<v Speaker 2>I know, but it's kind of what everybody thinks.

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<v Speaker 1>It illustrates what we're trying to say before we get

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<v Speaker 1>into the topic, which is you and mid and your

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<v Speaker 1>amazing podcast meet and how you're a very stylish woman.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh gosh, thanks the ten percent of your wardrobe, you

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<v Speaker 1>were ninety percent of the time.

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<v Speaker 2>So what is on high rotation jeans? So a few

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<v Speaker 2>years ago and I wrote about this, and I've remained

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<v Speaker 2>very wedded to this. I think one of my style

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<v Speaker 2>flaws is that I hold onto things for too like

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<v Speaker 2>a look for too long. But I found a gene

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<v Speaker 2>that I love a few years ago that are by Karina.

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<v Speaker 2>They're an Australian denim brand, and they call the Frayer

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<v Speaker 2>and they're kind of wide, like high waisted but not

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<v Speaker 2>too high waisted, wide leg but not too white. And

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<v Speaker 2>I just love them. And I have a pair. I

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<v Speaker 2>of a white pair, I have a dark blue, I

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<v Speaker 2>have a light blue, I have a mid wash like.

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<v Speaker 2>I have those jeans in almost every color. And if

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know what to wear, my go to uniform

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<v Speaker 2>is those jeans with a shirt. I really like shirts.

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<v Speaker 2>As I've gotten older, away from T shirts, that kind

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<v Speaker 2>of thing shirt and an interesting pair of shoes that

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<v Speaker 2>is like, I don't know what I'm wearing. I'm wearing that.

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<v Speaker 1>Because I don't really have to think about it. You

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<v Speaker 1>know what works.

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<v Speaker 2>And I really like that kind of it's a bit seventy.

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<v Speaker 1>I was going to say, you give off a bit

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<v Speaker 1>seven retro. I like that, not rollers skating retro.

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<v Speaker 2>I know. Also, you would be so modified if you

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<v Speaker 2>came to my house, Lee, because I don't really have

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<v Speaker 2>a proper closet because the bedroom that anyway, long story,

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<v Speaker 2>but my clothes are all over the house. Some are

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<v Speaker 2>in Matilda's room, some are in Billy's room.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh that's hard to get ready.

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<v Speaker 2>And so my ten percent that I wear all the

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<v Speaker 2>time is literally the one that's in my room. And

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<v Speaker 2>I just wear those clothes all the time. And then

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<v Speaker 2>I'll go to my children and I'd be like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>I remember I've got that dress.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, so you've physically done an edit by way of storage.

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<v Speaker 2>So a lot of jeans, a lot of shirts, and

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of colorful shoes.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, yeah that's you. And you know what, you haven't

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<v Speaker 1>held onto those jeans for too long.

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<v Speaker 2>They work for you.

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<v Speaker 1>Why start a whole new mission?

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<v Speaker 2>I know I do really like I love them. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>wearing a pair today, dark blue. That my darkest wash.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm into those now. How has your style changed over

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<v Speaker 1>the years. Do you think you used to be in magazines?

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<v Speaker 1>We were both at the same company that we didn't

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<v Speaker 1>know each other until now. Has your style changed much

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<v Speaker 1>or have you always kind of been sure of your parameter?

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<v Speaker 2>I see, I don't think I'm sure of my parameters.

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<v Speaker 2>Like a lot of women, I'm quite insecure about my

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<v Speaker 2>body and my shape and all those things. And I

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<v Speaker 2>know we don't have to say, don't have to be

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<v Speaker 2>like women are atally, So often I've been very insecure

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<v Speaker 2>about what I look like. It's funny that now my

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<v Speaker 2>go to as jeans, because for a very long time

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<v Speaker 2>I never wore jeans. I only wore skirts.

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<v Speaker 1>Were scared of them.

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<v Speaker 2>Dresses, Yes, I was definitely scared of them. I thought

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<v Speaker 2>they didn't flatter me. I thought because I'm short as well,

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<v Speaker 2>like I'm really quite sure five foot three. Often when

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<v Speaker 2>I meet people, they're like, oh, I didn't know you

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<v Speaker 2>were so sure. And I used to only really wear skirts,

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<v Speaker 2>and now I rarely wear skirts. I definitely decided around

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<v Speaker 2>fifty that I was going to make more of an effort.

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<v Speaker 2>Fuck it fifty, yeah, fuck it fifty. And also I

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<v Speaker 2>moved to the country, and I spend a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>my time when I'm there in very comfy, like knock

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<v Speaker 2>around clothes. So when I come to the office, like

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<v Speaker 2>you'd be the same because I, I mean, I wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>in fashion mags the way that you were, or monthly.

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<v Speaker 2>I was in weeklies. But still clothes are a thing,

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<v Speaker 2>makeups of things and cause of thing, and it's fun

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<v Speaker 2>to dress up and come to.

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<v Speaker 1>Work, but every day gets a bit monotonous, whereas now

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<v Speaker 1>you and I are sort of part time here, it's

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<v Speaker 1>fun to do the fancy and then the next day

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<v Speaker 1>you're in your leggings.

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<v Speaker 2>And generationally, it's interesting to me that all the young

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<v Speaker 2>women we work with, who are all very gorgeous and

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<v Speaker 2>cool in all the different ways, but they will come

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<v Speaker 2>to the office in leggings like it. Not all of them,

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<v Speaker 2>but some of them definitely will, And I would never

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<v Speaker 2>I think that must be a bit of a gen

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<v Speaker 2>X thing. Like I am not an active wear out

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<v Speaker 2>of the house unless I am literally just walking the

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<v Speaker 2>dog doing the errands, you know what I mean. If

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going anywhere where I might see people, I have

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<v Speaker 2>to get out of my leggings.

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<v Speaker 1>See. I'm an elder millennial, and I am active where

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<v Speaker 1>outside of active, but not to the office. And I

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes think that maybe there needs to be a bit

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<v Speaker 1>of decorum, But I actually think that's because I'm old

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<v Speaker 1>and things are changing.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't judge it. I just really know, I just

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<v Speaker 2>judge it. I remember saying to one of my young

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<v Speaker 2>colleagues recently, oh, but these aren't work clothes in whatever

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<v Speaker 2>I was wearing. Oh no, And she was like, what

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<v Speaker 2>a work.

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<v Speaker 1>Clothes, particularly in such a casual office. You know, well,

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<v Speaker 1>speaking of this office, you work so closely with me.

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<v Speaker 1>She's a bower bird when it comes to trends. She

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<v Speaker 1>will try anything and maybe everything, all at once. How

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<v Speaker 1>do you personally feel about trends? Do you think they're

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<v Speaker 1>too fast, too intimidating.

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<v Speaker 2>I think they're too fast and to intimidating. And I

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<v Speaker 2>am a late adopter. So Mia will be wearing this

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<v Speaker 2>pair of trainers or whatever, and I'll be like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>I like those, but they're too much for me, suddenly

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<v Speaker 2>everyone in the office is wearing them, and I'm like, oh, no,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't want to be that. But then six months

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<v Speaker 2>later I'll totally be wearing them.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you feel any pressure to be trend driven or

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<v Speaker 1>to wear trends?

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<v Speaker 2>Though, No, not really. Every now and again I'll get

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<v Speaker 2>a comment from my beloved friend that makes me go

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<v Speaker 2>all like, you know how I was wedded and I

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<v Speaker 2>still am in a way to my wooden soul seventies clogs.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, they're great.

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<v Speaker 2>I have so many pairs of those.

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<v Speaker 1>So when you find something you really commit, yeah, I do.

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<v Speaker 2>When I find something that I love, I love and

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<v Speaker 2>I'll wear for ages. And I remember mea saying to

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<v Speaker 2>me once like, you just got to stop wearing those,

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<v Speaker 2>they're not cool. I was like, I don't care that

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<v Speaker 2>they're not cool.

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<v Speaker 1>They're kind of a very cool right now. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's noisy.

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<v Speaker 2>They were noisy. And what amazes me about me and

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<v Speaker 2>I love love Seeing what she's wearing every day brings

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<v Speaker 2>me a lot of joy. She walks into the meeting

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<v Speaker 2>eight thirty in the morning, and I'm always delighted to

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<v Speaker 2>see what's going on. But I just can't give it

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<v Speaker 2>that much time and energy, and I just.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't Yeah, and the variety, you know, I think it's.

0:09:58.767 --> 0:10:01.087
<v Speaker 2>I can't imagine how many clothes she has, or you,

0:10:01.247 --> 0:10:04.007
<v Speaker 2>my friend, you wear amazing clothes all the time. They're

0:10:04.087 --> 0:10:05.647
<v Speaker 2>very different vibe.

0:10:05.527 --> 0:10:08.007
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, different to me, But I then have the all

0:10:08.007 --> 0:10:11.767
<v Speaker 1>my personalities in my ward. Sometimes she can't decide. Yes.

0:10:12.167 --> 0:10:14.647
<v Speaker 1>I'm so excited and interested. And I've always wanted to

0:10:14.647 --> 0:10:17.047
<v Speaker 1>ask you this in a public arena, to get your

0:10:17.127 --> 0:10:21.727
<v Speaker 1>thoughts on fashion and feminism or fashion versus feminism, because

0:10:21.887 --> 0:10:25.407
<v Speaker 1>I've been a lifestyle journalist for twenty something years, mostly

0:10:25.407 --> 0:10:28.647
<v Speaker 1>writing about talking about lipstick and makeup, and I've always

0:10:28.687 --> 0:10:31.047
<v Speaker 1>had to defend the fact that I believe women can

0:10:31.087 --> 0:10:35.527
<v Speaker 1>be smart and care about current affairs and love eyeshadow.

0:10:36.527 --> 0:10:39.647
<v Speaker 1>So what are your thoughts Can a woman really care

0:10:39.727 --> 0:10:43.367
<v Speaker 1>about both? And is there a line between self expression

0:10:43.567 --> 0:10:46.407
<v Speaker 1>and vanity? Or if we're really feminist, shall we be

0:10:46.807 --> 0:10:48.967
<v Speaker 1>fighting the patriarchy and wearing a plastic bag.

0:10:49.567 --> 0:10:52.447
<v Speaker 2>Of course, I think that absolutely women can care about

0:10:52.807 --> 0:10:56.287
<v Speaker 2>fashion and feminism, of course, and politics and makeup and

0:10:56.327 --> 0:10:59.887
<v Speaker 2>all those things. But it's interesting in that we still

0:11:00.407 --> 0:11:04.887
<v Speaker 2>have this embedded view in our heads that because the

0:11:04.967 --> 0:11:07.367
<v Speaker 2>idea of being a real feminist is that you're not

0:11:08.087 --> 0:11:10.927
<v Speaker 2>kowtowing to the male gate, right, that's the idea. And

0:11:11.367 --> 0:11:13.767
<v Speaker 2>I know this wouldn't be shocking to you, but I

0:11:13.807 --> 0:11:16.567
<v Speaker 2>know very few women who actually dress for the male gaze.

0:11:16.647 --> 0:11:19.407
<v Speaker 2>I agree, including when I was younger. Like I mean,

0:11:19.527 --> 0:11:21.527
<v Speaker 2>because I definitely think as you get older you give

0:11:21.567 --> 0:11:24.447
<v Speaker 2>fewer fucks about dressing for the male gaze. Of course, so.

0:11:24.487 --> 0:11:26.847
<v Speaker 1>When you were younger, do you think you dressed still

0:11:26.887 --> 0:11:30.727
<v Speaker 1>for yourself or for other women or I have some outfits.

0:11:30.247 --> 0:11:33.127
<v Speaker 2>From different eras that were very defining of what I

0:11:33.247 --> 0:11:35.847
<v Speaker 2>was wearing at that moment. I've always worn whatever I

0:11:36.007 --> 0:11:37.807
<v Speaker 2>want or whatever I felt comfortable, and, as I say,

0:11:37.847 --> 0:11:41.087
<v Speaker 2>with all the usual insecurities, you know, I remember there

0:11:41.087 --> 0:11:43.167
<v Speaker 2>were phases when I would be in relationships and the

0:11:43.287 --> 0:11:46.047
<v Speaker 2>guy would be like, I like short skirts, and you'd

0:11:46.047 --> 0:11:48.807
<v Speaker 2>be like, oh, you know that, and then part of

0:11:48.847 --> 0:11:51.927
<v Speaker 2>you goes okay, and you go and try and you think, yeah,

0:11:52.047 --> 0:11:55.407
<v Speaker 2>but I have never really dressed for men. And I

0:11:55.527 --> 0:11:59.407
<v Speaker 2>think that it's true that for some people clothes and

0:11:59.487 --> 0:12:03.047
<v Speaker 2>more self expression than others. But I think that for

0:12:03.207 --> 0:12:08.127
<v Speaker 2>all of us, feeling confident, feeling positive, feeling powerful is

0:12:08.167 --> 0:12:12.127
<v Speaker 2>a good thing, right, and if that is tied to

0:12:12.207 --> 0:12:14.407
<v Speaker 2>the way you look, that might be patriarchy. You who

0:12:14.407 --> 0:12:17.207
<v Speaker 2>put that idea there somewhere with a big side of capitalism,

0:12:17.247 --> 0:12:19.527
<v Speaker 2>who want you to buy more things, more things, more things.

0:12:19.607 --> 0:12:22.287
<v Speaker 2>But also if it works for you, I think one

0:12:22.367 --> 0:12:23.767
<v Speaker 2>hundred percent yes.

0:12:23.567 --> 0:12:26.167
<v Speaker 1>Because how do you feel when you've put together a

0:12:26.167 --> 0:12:28.687
<v Speaker 1>good outfit or throw it together and you've come to

0:12:28.687 --> 0:12:31.647
<v Speaker 1>the city. Does it make a difference if you like

0:12:31.727 --> 0:12:33.127
<v Speaker 1>the way you feel in your clothes that day?

0:12:33.207 --> 0:12:36.767
<v Speaker 2>Definitely, one hundred percent it does. And equally, and this

0:12:36.807 --> 0:12:38.447
<v Speaker 2>is one of the things that can be quite confronting

0:12:38.487 --> 0:12:42.007
<v Speaker 2>as you age, right, is that sometimes making and I

0:12:42.087 --> 0:12:43.607
<v Speaker 2>hate to use the words, but making a bit of

0:12:43.647 --> 0:12:46.887
<v Speaker 2>an effort, like you know, putting on the lipstick or

0:12:47.007 --> 0:12:51.167
<v Speaker 2>wearing that outfit, you can become invisible very quickly when

0:12:51.167 --> 0:12:52.807
<v Speaker 2>you don't as you get older.

0:12:53.007 --> 0:12:55.447
<v Speaker 1>Because I think there's a difference between giving no fucks

0:12:55.487 --> 0:12:58.487
<v Speaker 1>and stop trying, because as long as you're trying for yourself, I.

0:12:58.447 --> 0:13:00.607
<v Speaker 2>Think, but that's the key, trying for yourself because often

0:13:00.607 --> 0:13:03.487
<v Speaker 2>when people say, oh, she's given up, that statement is

0:13:03.567 --> 0:13:06.647
<v Speaker 2>so loaded, right, It's often about bodies and it's about

0:13:06.887 --> 0:13:09.127
<v Speaker 2>gray hair, and it's about a lot of things that

0:13:09.367 --> 0:13:12.207
<v Speaker 2>don't necessarily mean anyone's given up anything, but what I

0:13:12.247 --> 0:13:14.767
<v Speaker 2>do think, and I've certainly been through periods of my

0:13:14.767 --> 0:13:16.927
<v Speaker 2>life like this. When I don't like the way I

0:13:16.927 --> 0:13:19.767
<v Speaker 2>look at all, I do try and disappear. Yeah, and

0:13:19.807 --> 0:13:23.327
<v Speaker 2>you shrink, you shrink. And I often say that I

0:13:23.367 --> 0:13:25.367
<v Speaker 2>can be invisible if I want to be, because there's

0:13:25.407 --> 0:13:27.487
<v Speaker 2>a middle I hate the term middle aged, but that's

0:13:27.487 --> 0:13:30.367
<v Speaker 2>how the external world would look at me. If I'm

0:13:30.407 --> 0:13:33.527
<v Speaker 2>wearing my daggy leggings and a big old T shirt

0:13:33.567 --> 0:13:35.407
<v Speaker 2>and I've got my hairscraped back and I'm not wearing makeup,

0:13:35.607 --> 0:13:37.367
<v Speaker 2>you know, then of course I just look like a

0:13:37.407 --> 0:13:38.287
<v Speaker 2>middle aged lady.

0:13:38.287 --> 0:13:41.007
<v Speaker 1>And do you like that? I do. I like the ability.

0:13:41.007 --> 0:13:43.007
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I'm forty three next month, and I think

0:13:43.247 --> 0:13:45.847
<v Speaker 1>I've got to the point where I dress fully for myself,

0:13:46.007 --> 0:13:48.447
<v Speaker 1>not for my girlfriends anymore, definitely not for my husband,

0:13:48.447 --> 0:13:51.967
<v Speaker 1>because i'd be wearing red late eggs. But I also like,

0:13:52.687 --> 0:13:54.447
<v Speaker 1>I care what I want to care, but I don't

0:13:54.487 --> 0:13:56.487
<v Speaker 1>feel pressure to care if I don't have it in

0:13:56.567 --> 0:13:57.047
<v Speaker 1>me that day.

0:13:57.207 --> 0:13:58.687
<v Speaker 2>If I don't have it in me, I don't have

0:13:58.687 --> 0:14:01.247
<v Speaker 2>it in me. But I think what's interesting is that

0:14:01.367 --> 0:14:04.887
<v Speaker 2>if the story you start telling yourself is that I'm invisible,

0:14:05.687 --> 0:14:08.647
<v Speaker 2>I'm no longer interesting to look at, I'm no longer

0:14:09.287 --> 0:14:13.167
<v Speaker 2>valuable and to be seen in this world. Because it's

0:14:13.167 --> 0:14:17.727
<v Speaker 2>a really, really pervasive idea that only young women are

0:14:17.727 --> 0:14:21.327
<v Speaker 2>interesting in sexy, right, And so we've all digested that.

0:14:21.527 --> 0:14:24.207
<v Speaker 2>It's fine if that's fine for you. But if I

0:14:24.327 --> 0:14:26.247
<v Speaker 2>have a theory that the reason that women at a

0:14:26.247 --> 0:14:28.967
<v Speaker 2>certain age suddenly start wearing red lipstick, which I certainly did,

0:14:30.207 --> 0:14:32.647
<v Speaker 2>I'm weaning myself off the redipsick or the big earrings,

0:14:33.687 --> 0:14:37.567
<v Speaker 2>all those stereotypes we have. It's just a way of saying, hey,

0:14:37.647 --> 0:14:41.247
<v Speaker 2>I'm here, right, and whatever makes you happy, you should do.

0:14:41.447 --> 0:14:45.127
<v Speaker 2>And I don't think that caring about clothes, caring about fashion,

0:14:45.167 --> 0:14:47.687
<v Speaker 2>caring about lipstick is in any way anti feminist. I

0:14:47.687 --> 0:14:48.047
<v Speaker 2>think that.

0:14:48.047 --> 0:14:51.807
<v Speaker 1>Idea is dead, Thank goodness, because I felt that too.

0:14:51.927 --> 0:14:53.647
<v Speaker 1>But you are my moral compass.

0:14:54.207 --> 0:14:54.367
<v Speaker 2>Now.

0:14:54.447 --> 0:14:57.407
<v Speaker 1>Last year you launched Mid, which is a podcast that

0:14:57.447 --> 0:14:59.727
<v Speaker 1>has changed my life. I am forty three next month,

0:14:59.767 --> 0:15:01.167
<v Speaker 1>as I mentioned, and I'm definitely mid.

0:15:01.367 --> 0:15:04.327
<v Speaker 2>I am on You're only just mid, but welcome I'm.

0:15:04.167 --> 0:15:07.487
<v Speaker 1>Middle, well if I live to eighty something, but I'm

0:15:07.687 --> 0:15:11.047
<v Speaker 1>your own replacement. Loves that the show really does cater

0:15:11.127 --> 0:15:14.447
<v Speaker 1>for you know, anywhere, for everybody. It's for everybody. How

0:15:14.487 --> 0:15:18.487
<v Speaker 1>has Mid changed how you feel about all of this

0:15:18.567 --> 0:15:22.007
<v Speaker 1>stuff in terms of getting dressed, putting in an effort? Also,

0:15:22.167 --> 0:15:23.967
<v Speaker 1>our podcasts have recently gone video.

0:15:24.167 --> 0:15:26.407
<v Speaker 2>I don't know that many women who love looking at

0:15:26.407 --> 0:15:29.007
<v Speaker 2>themselves endlessly close up talk.

0:15:28.967 --> 0:15:31.367
<v Speaker 1>Yes over the internet, and you have to be on

0:15:31.407 --> 0:15:31.887
<v Speaker 1>every day.

0:15:31.967 --> 0:15:34.527
<v Speaker 2>I it's interesting because we were just talking about, you know,

0:15:34.687 --> 0:15:37.127
<v Speaker 2>I am here, I'm still here, I'm not invisible. But

0:15:37.207 --> 0:15:40.407
<v Speaker 2>I've also had to decouple myself a bit from just

0:15:40.447 --> 0:15:44.087
<v Speaker 2>that constant self critique. It's like, you look old, you're jowled,

0:15:44.167 --> 0:15:48.167
<v Speaker 2>you're this, you're that. Yeah, very much, tell that voice

0:15:48.207 --> 0:15:52.047
<v Speaker 2>to take a shushy yes. But I've found making mid

0:15:52.327 --> 0:15:56.887
<v Speaker 2>so oh goodness, really cheesy word, but empowering because the

0:15:56.967 --> 0:15:59.727
<v Speaker 2>thing that I'm really passionate about is whatever you want

0:15:59.767 --> 0:16:01.847
<v Speaker 2>to look like, whatever you want to wear, whatever that's

0:16:01.927 --> 0:16:03.767
<v Speaker 2>up to you as you get older. But just don't

0:16:03.767 --> 0:16:06.527
<v Speaker 2>stop being you, right, Because as I was just saying

0:16:06.527 --> 0:16:09.807
<v Speaker 2>about this script, we've all internalized is my times over.

0:16:09.887 --> 0:16:12.687
<v Speaker 2>I've got to sit down, let the young'uns take over. Yes,

0:16:12.727 --> 0:16:14.247
<v Speaker 2>the young and should be taking Like I've got a

0:16:14.247 --> 0:16:17.127
<v Speaker 2>fifteen year old daughter, and I get so much joy

0:16:17.727 --> 0:16:21.727
<v Speaker 2>from watching her beauty and her you know, when I

0:16:21.727 --> 0:16:24.287
<v Speaker 2>said beauty, I just mean like, to me, she's beautiful.

0:16:24.287 --> 0:16:27.447
<v Speaker 2>I don't necessarily mean she's a beauty, but and watching

0:16:27.447 --> 0:16:29.607
<v Speaker 2>her play with all that stuff. And it's funny because

0:16:29.647 --> 0:16:32.087
<v Speaker 2>as a feminist mother, though, I do often find myself saying,

0:16:32.087 --> 0:16:35.647
<v Speaker 2>stop staring at yourself so much. I'm not in any way.

0:16:35.727 --> 0:16:37.447
<v Speaker 2>You know, you hear those tropes about like then the

0:16:37.447 --> 0:16:40.167
<v Speaker 2>middle aged ones get jealousy. Yeah, I don't feel that

0:16:40.247 --> 0:16:42.967
<v Speaker 2>even a tiny bit. I'm like, you go, girl, I

0:16:43.007 --> 0:16:45.927
<v Speaker 2>can't wait to see you really rocking these years and

0:16:46.687 --> 0:16:49.087
<v Speaker 2>finding yourself and get more comfortable, hopefully all the time.

0:16:49.447 --> 0:16:51.847
<v Speaker 2>But I also think that there's room for all of

0:16:51.927 --> 0:16:54.007
<v Speaker 2>us to still be seen and visible and still be

0:16:54.047 --> 0:16:57.047
<v Speaker 2>pushing things and taking risks and making new stuff. And

0:16:57.087 --> 0:16:59.527
<v Speaker 2>one of the things that's been great about mid is

0:16:59.647 --> 0:17:02.087
<v Speaker 2>when I ask the audience, like, send me your pictures

0:17:02.127 --> 0:17:03.407
<v Speaker 2>and tell me what you're doing, and tell me what

0:17:03.447 --> 0:17:07.487
<v Speaker 2>you're exciting about. These women are doing amazing shit, and

0:17:07.567 --> 0:17:09.767
<v Speaker 2>many of them look great doing it. In fact, of

0:17:09.807 --> 0:17:11.767
<v Speaker 2>course they all look great doing it. But it's that

0:17:12.007 --> 0:17:14.887
<v Speaker 2>thing of like, I'm still here, you can still see me,

0:17:15.047 --> 0:17:17.967
<v Speaker 2>the world can still see me. I'm not stopping, I'm

0:17:17.967 --> 0:17:20.367
<v Speaker 2>not suddenly fading into the background. There are still things

0:17:20.407 --> 0:17:22.287
<v Speaker 2>I want to do, places, I want to go adventures.

0:17:22.287 --> 0:17:24.087
<v Speaker 2>I want to have dresses I want to wear. Yeah,

0:17:24.247 --> 0:17:25.087
<v Speaker 2>that's what I love.

0:17:24.927 --> 0:17:27.167
<v Speaker 1>About And I feel like from that I've taken mid

0:17:27.167 --> 0:17:29.007
<v Speaker 1>It might be a life stage in terms of age,

0:17:29.047 --> 0:17:31.207
<v Speaker 1>but it's not a label. You don't have to be

0:17:31.767 --> 0:17:34.647
<v Speaker 1>that's all you are. No, it's nothing about that, not

0:17:34.727 --> 0:17:35.127
<v Speaker 1>at all.

0:17:35.207 --> 0:17:38.447
<v Speaker 2>And also the other thing is we've again with this

0:17:38.527 --> 0:17:41.767
<v Speaker 2>agism that we've all internalized. We're why Like when I

0:17:41.807 --> 0:17:44.127
<v Speaker 2>think about U, LEI like nearly all the amazing women

0:17:44.207 --> 0:17:46.727
<v Speaker 2>I know, think of all the shit you've lived through, Like,

0:17:46.887 --> 0:17:48.567
<v Speaker 2>think of all the things you've been through, all the

0:17:48.607 --> 0:17:53.807
<v Speaker 2>different versions of yourself. You've been trials, you've survived, the disappointments,

0:17:53.847 --> 0:17:57.687
<v Speaker 2>the griefs, the triumphs. We're amazing, and yet somehow we've

0:17:57.727 --> 0:18:00.967
<v Speaker 2>all been convinced that we're really sad. And it's like

0:18:01.047 --> 0:18:03.247
<v Speaker 2>we need to take that Lie back, whizz it up

0:18:03.287 --> 0:18:05.847
<v Speaker 2>and throw it back in people's face because how wise

0:18:05.887 --> 0:18:07.727
<v Speaker 2>and powerful you are today, You've never been as wise

0:18:07.847 --> 0:18:08.567
<v Speaker 2>and powerful as.

0:18:08.407 --> 0:18:09.367
<v Speaker 1>And it's just going to get better.

0:18:18.807 --> 0:18:19.007
<v Speaker 2>Now.

0:18:19.047 --> 0:18:22.207
<v Speaker 1>You touched on around turning fifty, you kind of had

0:18:22.887 --> 0:18:24.247
<v Speaker 1>I won't put words in your mouth at a light

0:18:24.247 --> 0:18:28.807
<v Speaker 1>bob moment. You wanted to really feel good. So how

0:18:28.807 --> 0:18:30.207
<v Speaker 1>did you approach that with fashion?

0:18:30.407 --> 0:18:32.847
<v Speaker 2>You know how we always, when we used to consume

0:18:32.847 --> 0:18:35.567
<v Speaker 2>fashion magazines all the time, dressing is always like bottle

0:18:35.647 --> 0:18:37.847
<v Speaker 2>make you look taller, wottle make you look slimmer, bottle

0:18:37.887 --> 0:18:39.567
<v Speaker 2>make you look younger. What's flatwering? What's this?

0:18:39.927 --> 0:18:41.727
<v Speaker 1>And when out your body shape? You're a pair he

0:18:42.087 --> 0:18:42.567
<v Speaker 1>this way.

0:18:42.447 --> 0:18:44.087
<v Speaker 2>Exactly, and you have all these scripts in your head

0:18:44.087 --> 0:18:45.687
<v Speaker 2>about I can't wear this, and I can't wear that,

0:18:45.727 --> 0:18:48.647
<v Speaker 2>and I can't wear that, and I think that part

0:18:48.687 --> 0:18:51.727
<v Speaker 2>of this whole reclaiming of things. I was like, I

0:18:51.727 --> 0:18:55.007
<v Speaker 2>can wear what I want, you know, and I will

0:18:55.967 --> 0:18:57.647
<v Speaker 2>die on the hill that any woman can wear what

0:18:57.687 --> 0:19:00.047
<v Speaker 2>they want, what she wants in terms of how much

0:19:00.087 --> 0:19:01.647
<v Speaker 2>flesh she wants to flash and all that. That's not

0:19:01.767 --> 0:19:04.727
<v Speaker 2>my thing, but like, go hard if it's your thing.

0:19:05.127 --> 0:19:07.567
<v Speaker 2>But I was like I don't want to stop feeling

0:19:07.607 --> 0:19:11.367
<v Speaker 2>like me. And also because I'm not hugely confident in fashion,

0:19:11.847 --> 0:19:14.047
<v Speaker 2>finding a kind of a bit of a uniform for

0:19:14.087 --> 0:19:16.287
<v Speaker 2>that period that was my shirts and jeans, which I'm

0:19:16.327 --> 0:19:18.087
<v Speaker 2>kind of trying to break out of them. So it

0:19:18.167 --> 0:19:21.767
<v Speaker 2>was nearly useful because it means now that when I

0:19:21.767 --> 0:19:24.127
<v Speaker 2>go shopping and I get a bit overwhelmed, or at

0:19:24.207 --> 0:19:25.927
<v Speaker 2>least in that period, I'd be like, well, what I'm

0:19:25.927 --> 0:19:27.807
<v Speaker 2>looking for is interesting.

0:19:27.407 --> 0:19:29.927
<v Speaker 1>Shits a bit of a safety net, h Like, I've

0:19:29.927 --> 0:19:30.407
<v Speaker 1>got all.

0:19:30.327 --> 0:19:32.207
<v Speaker 2>These great pairs of jeans whatever that I know look

0:19:32.247 --> 0:19:34.887
<v Speaker 2>good with a shirt and a shoe. So where can

0:19:34.927 --> 0:19:36.447
<v Speaker 2>I find interesting shirts?

0:19:36.527 --> 0:19:36.727
<v Speaker 1>You know?

0:19:37.047 --> 0:19:39.407
<v Speaker 2>And then colors, Oh, godly don't know.

0:19:39.767 --> 0:19:41.847
<v Speaker 1>We're not going into colors. Wear whatever color.

0:19:42.007 --> 0:19:43.967
<v Speaker 2>I know, but I for a long time would only

0:19:44.007 --> 0:19:46.847
<v Speaker 2>wear blue because I love blue. And I walk into

0:19:46.847 --> 0:19:48.247
<v Speaker 2>a shop and I'm nearly always I.

0:19:48.127 --> 0:19:49.767
<v Speaker 1>Think we were in Maya once and you bought a

0:19:49.767 --> 0:19:51.167
<v Speaker 1>cornflower blues something I.

0:19:53.047 --> 0:19:55.367
<v Speaker 2>Did, and I bought a white Greek shirt with like

0:19:55.407 --> 0:19:58.327
<v Speaker 2>this blue. I love that shit. I still wear it.

0:19:58.527 --> 0:20:00.487
<v Speaker 2>You can get a bit stuck in those roots, and

0:20:00.567 --> 0:20:02.367
<v Speaker 2>I was definitely stuck in a blue rot still I'm

0:20:02.367 --> 0:20:04.407
<v Speaker 2>wearing navy today, so I kind of try and push

0:20:04.447 --> 0:20:06.727
<v Speaker 2>myself out of those things. But it's also okay, have

0:20:06.807 --> 0:20:07.287
<v Speaker 2>you comfort?

0:20:07.327 --> 0:20:09.127
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, that's called personal style.

0:20:09.607 --> 0:20:11.887
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a good thing and it suits me, I think.

0:20:12.047 --> 0:20:13.607
<v Speaker 1>So are you feeling a bit on the edge of

0:20:13.607 --> 0:20:15.287
<v Speaker 1>a little bit of an evolution? I am.

0:20:15.327 --> 0:20:17.967
<v Speaker 2>I'm feeling like, what does that look like? I'm not sure,

0:20:18.007 --> 0:20:20.407
<v Speaker 2>but I've suddenly started wearing flat shoes, which I haven't

0:20:20.447 --> 0:20:22.687
<v Speaker 2>done for years. Obviously I wear flat shoes in my

0:20:22.727 --> 0:20:25.487
<v Speaker 2>real life, but in my work life. Back to that

0:20:25.527 --> 0:20:27.487
<v Speaker 2>sort of insecurity thing and the feeling like I'm a

0:20:27.527 --> 0:20:30.567
<v Speaker 2>bit short, I always wear a little bit of a heel,

0:20:30.967 --> 0:20:33.567
<v Speaker 2>my clogs or those awesome shoes that you got me

0:20:33.607 --> 0:20:33.967
<v Speaker 2>to buy.

0:20:34.167 --> 0:20:36.087
<v Speaker 1>But when you walk into the studio today, said Holly,

0:20:36.127 --> 0:20:38.127
<v Speaker 1>I love your cage sandals, and you said, thank you.

0:20:38.127 --> 0:20:42.007
<v Speaker 1>What's a cage sand? And it's like a thatched sandal,

0:20:42.047 --> 0:20:44.487
<v Speaker 1>but it's closed at the toes. So they're very transseasonal.

0:20:44.487 --> 0:20:46.847
<v Speaker 1>They're the color of the season, cherry red. So look

0:20:46.847 --> 0:20:47.767
<v Speaker 1>how trendy you are.

0:20:48.087 --> 0:20:51.807
<v Speaker 2>I've always loved colorful shoes. Okay. I think that goes

0:20:51.847 --> 0:20:54.047
<v Speaker 2>back to the times that I haven't felt very confident.

0:20:54.367 --> 0:20:56.807
<v Speaker 2>You can wear black and a great pair of colorful shoes,

0:20:56.847 --> 0:20:59.607
<v Speaker 2>you can wear jeans, so I've always had I don't

0:20:59.607 --> 0:21:02.087
<v Speaker 2>think I own any black shoes, maybe one, and.

0:21:02.047 --> 0:21:04.167
<v Speaker 1>I think, you know, pregnancy aside, usually your shoes fit

0:21:04.167 --> 0:21:05.927
<v Speaker 1>in your back fit exact. At least it's like I'm

0:21:05.967 --> 0:21:08.007
<v Speaker 1>going to bring my joy there if I'm throwing on something.

0:21:08.087 --> 0:21:10.087
<v Speaker 2>So I bought these the shoes are wearing today my

0:21:10.127 --> 0:21:13.047
<v Speaker 2>new favorite thing. They are from Bed and they are

0:21:13.447 --> 0:21:16.767
<v Speaker 2>a bright red cherry red sandal and far out. They

0:21:16.767 --> 0:21:17.407
<v Speaker 2>make me happy.

0:21:17.487 --> 0:21:20.927
<v Speaker 1>They're so good to women who are meet or in

0:21:20.967 --> 0:21:24.007
<v Speaker 1>their fifties and they feel like they're stuck in a

0:21:24.047 --> 0:21:25.807
<v Speaker 1>style rush. What's your advice.

0:21:26.127 --> 0:21:29.407
<v Speaker 2>I think that find a couple of pieces that make

0:21:29.487 --> 0:21:31.767
<v Speaker 2>you feel great and work from that. I know I've

0:21:31.767 --> 0:21:33.287
<v Speaker 2>already said it a few times, but I think that

0:21:33.487 --> 0:21:35.527
<v Speaker 2>just discovering this bit of a uniform for me was

0:21:35.567 --> 0:21:37.647
<v Speaker 2>a bit of a turning point, and then it let

0:21:37.727 --> 0:21:39.927
<v Speaker 2>me play with it. So then I was like, oh, well,

0:21:39.967 --> 0:21:42.127
<v Speaker 2>if I can wear this kind of seventies is Geene

0:21:42.127 --> 0:21:44.847
<v Speaker 2>and shirt think i'd probably wear like a denim line

0:21:44.887 --> 0:21:46.127
<v Speaker 2>with my cloggy shoes and.

0:21:46.087 --> 0:21:49.247
<v Speaker 1>That was line piece. Yea phase you were great with you.

0:21:49.567 --> 0:21:52.247
<v Speaker 2>That was good and it's still in the same yeah, exactly,

0:21:52.327 --> 0:21:54.887
<v Speaker 2>and so that made me feel good. Just start with

0:21:55.007 --> 0:21:58.367
<v Speaker 2>something that doesn't feel too scary. And you know what

0:21:58.487 --> 0:22:00.687
<v Speaker 2>the other thing is is that when you change your

0:22:00.727 --> 0:22:03.007
<v Speaker 2>style a bit, if you don't live in a fashioning world,

0:22:03.287 --> 0:22:05.327
<v Speaker 2>sometimes the people around you can make you feel a

0:22:05.327 --> 0:22:08.167
<v Speaker 2>bit embarrassed about it. They can be like I remember

0:22:08.207 --> 0:22:11.407
<v Speaker 2>when I was in my peak experimental phase and I

0:22:11.527 --> 0:22:13.927
<v Speaker 2>turned up to a place with my old friends and

0:22:13.967 --> 0:22:16.167
<v Speaker 2>I was wearing like these cargo like these sort of

0:22:16.807 --> 0:22:18.327
<v Speaker 2>I don't know why I was wearing them. Actually look

0:22:18.367 --> 0:22:22.807
<v Speaker 2>at the cargo. They were like blue cargo panty pants.

0:22:23.007 --> 0:22:24.527
<v Speaker 2>And my friend was like, who do you think you are?

0:22:24.647 --> 0:22:26.567
<v Speaker 2>Like you're a twelve year old boy. I was like,

0:22:26.647 --> 0:22:28.087
<v Speaker 2>well maybe I am today?

0:22:28.407 --> 0:22:30.127
<v Speaker 1>Yeah no, does S don't comment?

0:22:30.207 --> 0:22:32.407
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, So don't let other people scare you and

0:22:32.647 --> 0:22:35.047
<v Speaker 2>just find something you like and then sort of branch

0:22:35.087 --> 0:22:35.767
<v Speaker 2>out from there.

0:22:35.887 --> 0:22:38.087
<v Speaker 1>I so agree because I think the volume I mean

0:22:38.367 --> 0:22:43.287
<v Speaker 1>mea and myself aside, who probably have a problem volume

0:22:43.367 --> 0:22:44.927
<v Speaker 1>is not an ideal scenario. If you're not going to

0:22:45.007 --> 0:22:47.367
<v Speaker 1>wear it, just get your key pieces that's your ten percent.

0:22:47.407 --> 0:22:49.167
<v Speaker 1>You don't have to have the ninety percent hiding feet

0:22:49.167 --> 0:22:49.727
<v Speaker 1>in the back there.

0:22:49.887 --> 0:22:53.367
<v Speaker 2>I am a mid range queen, right, so I'm scared

0:22:53.407 --> 0:22:58.407
<v Speaker 2>of really expensive clothes, but I'm not really a fast fashion.

0:22:58.167 --> 0:23:00.927
<v Speaker 1>Caut range if when it comes to everything, I'm like.

0:23:00.927 --> 0:23:02.727
<v Speaker 2>I don't want the cheapest and I don't want the

0:23:02.807 --> 0:23:05.527
<v Speaker 2>must expensive. Yeah, it's very realistic.

0:23:05.087 --> 0:23:08.687
<v Speaker 1>It's not embarrassing. That's how most people are. They want

0:23:08.727 --> 0:23:10.527
<v Speaker 1>stuff to lie, not to have to mortgage your hair

0:23:10.647 --> 0:23:11.767
<v Speaker 1>because exactly, it's like.

0:23:11.727 --> 0:23:14.487
<v Speaker 2>If you like your genes to look like their quality,

0:23:14.767 --> 0:23:17.967
<v Speaker 2>you know, blah blah. And also, I literally do wear

0:23:17.967 --> 0:23:20.607
<v Speaker 2>things for years, which you know it's maybe a bit

0:23:20.607 --> 0:23:21.647
<v Speaker 2>embarrassing for me, but I do.

0:23:21.727 --> 0:23:24.807
<v Speaker 1>It's not holly. That's how the world was speaking of

0:23:24.807 --> 0:23:26.647
<v Speaker 1>what we wear or what we want to wear. Bougie

0:23:26.647 --> 0:23:27.207
<v Speaker 1>and budget time.

0:23:29.767 --> 0:23:31.207
<v Speaker 2>It's very expensive.

0:23:32.047 --> 0:23:37.407
<v Speaker 1>How please start with your budget?

0:23:37.767 --> 0:23:43.807
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so my budget is really boring, but my MVP

0:23:44.247 --> 0:23:48.287
<v Speaker 2>of budget fashion is a pair of denim shorts as

0:23:48.327 --> 0:23:50.567
<v Speaker 2>you get mid and this isn't true for everybody. Some

0:23:50.607 --> 0:23:52.687
<v Speaker 2>people can still rock the hot pants.

0:23:52.967 --> 0:23:54.367
<v Speaker 1>But I don't want to.

0:23:54.487 --> 0:23:57.807
<v Speaker 2>I wear shorts in summer a lot, right, But they

0:23:57.887 --> 0:24:01.367
<v Speaker 2>have to be the right lengths, not too short but

0:24:01.447 --> 0:24:02.287
<v Speaker 2>not too long.

0:24:02.087 --> 0:24:04.007
<v Speaker 1>Though, and wide enough on the thigh.

0:24:03.887 --> 0:24:06.167
<v Speaker 2>Wide enough on the thigh and high enough in the

0:24:06.167 --> 0:24:08.287
<v Speaker 2>waist that they're a bit flattering, but that you don't

0:24:08.287 --> 0:24:11.887
<v Speaker 2>feel like your button. And the best pad found are

0:24:11.927 --> 0:24:14.447
<v Speaker 2>from Just Jeans, and they called the original seam front

0:24:14.487 --> 0:24:17.647
<v Speaker 2>short and they're denim and they're about fifty five dollars.

0:24:17.727 --> 0:24:19.527
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god. I live in this style of short

0:24:19.567 --> 0:24:21.767
<v Speaker 1>too often. I do a paper bag waste soo because

0:24:21.847 --> 0:24:23.847
<v Speaker 1>with my endo, I like that it kind of looks fashion.

0:24:23.927 --> 0:24:26.327
<v Speaker 1>But then when I'm bloated, if it's not wide enough

0:24:26.327 --> 0:24:27.767
<v Speaker 1>on the thigh, I'm furious.

0:24:28.287 --> 0:24:31.287
<v Speaker 2>No, you need just change so and I have worn

0:24:31.367 --> 0:24:35.207
<v Speaker 2>those all summer long, and I just think that it

0:24:35.207 --> 0:24:36.647
<v Speaker 2>comes to things like shorts. I'm not going to spend

0:24:36.647 --> 0:24:39.487
<v Speaker 2>lots of money, no, but also it's a particular cut

0:24:39.527 --> 0:24:41.767
<v Speaker 2>that you want, and then when you find it that

0:24:41.807 --> 0:24:42.367
<v Speaker 2>she want.

0:24:42.247 --> 0:24:44.087
<v Speaker 1>I agree. I found some that I love to and look,

0:24:44.087 --> 0:24:45.927
<v Speaker 1>I will wear a longer short like that with maybe

0:24:45.927 --> 0:24:47.407
<v Speaker 1>a kitten heel and a shirt to the office, But

0:24:47.447 --> 0:24:50.087
<v Speaker 1>then at home, I'm so hot and I'm so pery,

0:24:50.127 --> 0:24:51.847
<v Speaker 1>and my bedroom is in the attic and I'm in

0:24:51.887 --> 0:24:54.047
<v Speaker 1>a uniglow cotton singlet and those shorts.

0:24:54.487 --> 0:24:55.727
<v Speaker 2>That's life and I love them.

0:24:56.207 --> 0:24:59.567
<v Speaker 1>My budget is a bag because I feel like, metaphorically,

0:24:59.567 --> 0:25:02.887
<v Speaker 1>when you get to mid you need good shoes and

0:25:02.927 --> 0:25:04.447
<v Speaker 1>good bags because they're carrying you.

0:25:04.687 --> 0:25:05.607
<v Speaker 2>I need a good bag.

0:25:05.687 --> 0:25:08.767
<v Speaker 1>They're carrying your shit and your emotions and your to

0:25:08.847 --> 0:25:11.727
<v Speaker 1>do li and everything with you. That's why I think

0:25:11.767 --> 0:25:14.847
<v Speaker 1>I'm not saying expensive, but quality shoes and bags really

0:25:14.847 --> 0:25:16.567
<v Speaker 1>get you through at this life stage. Because he's sick

0:25:16.567 --> 0:25:18.687
<v Speaker 1>of being uncomfortable. He's sick. It's stupid little bags you

0:25:18.687 --> 0:25:20.967
<v Speaker 1>can't carry anything in. So it's the Marks and Spencer

0:25:21.127 --> 0:25:23.847
<v Speaker 1>M and S Collection quilted shoulder bag. I'm about to

0:25:23.847 --> 0:25:27.127
<v Speaker 1>buy it to Google. Well it's ninety nine ninety nine,

0:25:27.127 --> 0:25:28.647
<v Speaker 1>but at the time of recording they have twenty percent off

0:25:28.647 --> 0:25:31.567
<v Speaker 1>selected styles. This is included. They always have twenty percent off.

0:25:31.767 --> 0:25:33.967
<v Speaker 1>It's a huge bag. I'm going to show you. I

0:25:33.967 --> 0:25:35.687
<v Speaker 1>don't know if the finish will be you, but it's

0:25:35.687 --> 0:25:39.487
<v Speaker 1>this black, sort of bubbly fake leather vinyl looking thing.

0:25:39.687 --> 0:25:42.927
<v Speaker 1>The whole thing zip shut because I'm in the phase

0:25:42.967 --> 0:25:45.927
<v Speaker 1>of forgetfulness through rush life and I put it in

0:25:45.967 --> 0:25:47.367
<v Speaker 1>my car and of course I break and then my

0:25:47.367 --> 0:25:48.807
<v Speaker 1>bag falls over and everything's everywhere.

0:25:49.127 --> 0:25:49.487
<v Speaker 2>I hate that.

0:25:49.527 --> 0:25:52.247
<v Speaker 1>It's ninety nine, ninety nine, it's huge, zip shut great

0:25:52.287 --> 0:25:54.687
<v Speaker 1>for travel, and then there's like a tanny color. They've

0:25:54.687 --> 0:25:56.967
<v Speaker 1>got really good bags. At the moment, hole like, I

0:25:57.007 --> 0:25:59.727
<v Speaker 1>want a tote that fits my whole life and zip shut.

0:25:59.527 --> 0:26:02.487
<v Speaker 2>You know, because I'm a commuter person now, and I'm like,

0:26:02.887 --> 0:26:04.567
<v Speaker 2>this is one thing I need advice from that. I

0:26:04.607 --> 0:26:05.807
<v Speaker 2>know this isn't an advice show.

0:26:05.887 --> 0:26:07.887
<v Speaker 1>Well, people don't know how often you and I talk

0:26:07.927 --> 0:26:11.967
<v Speaker 1>about these and I love it. I'll get a message

0:26:11.967 --> 0:26:14.607
<v Speaker 1>from Hollyway and on a Sunday go I'm in Mecca.

0:26:14.767 --> 0:26:16.287
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm like, I need a bronze to tell me

0:26:16.327 --> 0:26:18.807
<v Speaker 2>which one. And I also do that with shoes. You

0:26:18.887 --> 0:26:21.007
<v Speaker 2>and me are a very excellent purpose in my life

0:26:21.007 --> 0:26:22.927
<v Speaker 2>in this way. And to be honest, you're more reliable

0:26:23.007 --> 0:26:34.927
<v Speaker 2>with your recommendations. She's to me, She's exciting, but she's mean, Okay,

0:26:34.967 --> 0:26:38.247
<v Speaker 2>what is your bougie? All right? So both my bougies

0:26:38.287 --> 0:26:40.407
<v Speaker 2>are things I haven't bought. But I think I'm seeking

0:26:40.447 --> 0:26:42.647
<v Speaker 2>permission right because.

0:26:42.287 --> 0:26:43.687
<v Speaker 1>I don't forget I have to tell listeners about the

0:26:43.687 --> 0:26:44.807
<v Speaker 1>shoes I helped you buy.

0:26:44.727 --> 0:26:46.727
<v Speaker 2>Oh for one hundred percent, So I don't know if

0:26:46.727 --> 0:26:49.447
<v Speaker 2>these classify as bougie. I guess they do. But when

0:26:49.567 --> 0:26:51.607
<v Speaker 2>last time I asked you, I said, I want a

0:26:51.647 --> 0:26:55.847
<v Speaker 2>mid heel, pointy, like look stressy but not uncomfortable. You

0:26:55.887 --> 0:26:59.127
<v Speaker 2>put me onto this brand called Vivea, isn't I saying

0:26:59.167 --> 0:27:02.647
<v Speaker 2>that that's right Vivea? And they I bought these bad.

0:27:02.687 --> 0:27:04.527
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, I love them. I'm so excited for

0:27:04.567 --> 0:27:06.807
<v Speaker 2>it to be cold again because they're like very close

0:27:06.887 --> 0:27:09.807
<v Speaker 2>toe point he a bit much for this time of year. Red,

0:27:09.847 --> 0:27:12.327
<v Speaker 2>which is one of my favorite colors. It's got these

0:27:12.407 --> 0:27:16.287
<v Speaker 2>like sea throughy directional heels. I love, little bit of

0:27:16.287 --> 0:27:18.887
<v Speaker 2>a heel, but not too much, very pointy, which I

0:27:18.927 --> 0:27:21.607
<v Speaker 2>never normally wear. But because they're this stretchy material, they're great.

0:27:21.767 --> 0:27:23.767
<v Speaker 1>It's like a knitted fabric. A lot of people have

0:27:23.887 --> 0:27:26.767
<v Speaker 1>seen ankle boots, like pointy ankle boots in this knitted fabric,

0:27:26.767 --> 0:27:29.447
<v Speaker 1>almost like a holyyist a sock type vibe. But these

0:27:29.487 --> 0:27:31.207
<v Speaker 1>ones they do a courtry and sling back.

0:27:31.247 --> 0:27:33.167
<v Speaker 2>So I bought those and I wore them to death.

0:27:33.287 --> 0:27:36.607
<v Speaker 2>And then I bought a navy blue sling back pair

0:27:36.647 --> 0:27:38.607
<v Speaker 2>of those with a little kitten heel and I love

0:27:38.687 --> 0:27:41.167
<v Speaker 2>those too, and they are comfy and they are great.

0:27:41.447 --> 0:27:42.687
<v Speaker 2>And that's the thing is that one of the things

0:27:42.727 --> 0:27:45.767
<v Speaker 2>I think about trends is I don't feel like I'm cooler. Well,

0:27:45.847 --> 0:27:47.447
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to be. It's not that I don't

0:27:47.447 --> 0:27:49.567
<v Speaker 2>feel like I am cool enough to wear something really

0:27:49.647 --> 0:27:52.687
<v Speaker 2>like out their directional stretchy boots, but I like a

0:27:52.807 --> 0:27:54.367
<v Speaker 2>hint of it, do you know what I mean?

0:27:54.407 --> 0:27:55.847
<v Speaker 1>So don't want to wear it next winter in the

0:27:55.887 --> 0:27:57.647
<v Speaker 1>winter after, and you want to be comfortable exactly.

0:27:58.207 --> 0:28:01.727
<v Speaker 2>But the thing I'm thinking about buying, there's a dress

0:28:02.087 --> 0:28:06.167
<v Speaker 2>that I have hired from Dress Higher Place three maybe

0:28:06.207 --> 0:28:08.327
<v Speaker 2>four times now, and it costs me two hundred dollars

0:28:08.367 --> 0:28:11.047
<v Speaker 2>every time. I dress should have bought the dress. And

0:28:11.087 --> 0:28:14.247
<v Speaker 2>it's a rixos Oh I love, and it's I wore

0:28:14.247 --> 0:28:16.807
<v Speaker 2>it to the Live shirt. And it's green because green

0:28:16.887 --> 0:28:20.327
<v Speaker 2>is another color I can wear. And it is sequins.

0:28:20.847 --> 0:28:23.727
<v Speaker 2>But it's got sleeves because this is a big thing

0:28:23.887 --> 0:28:25.687
<v Speaker 2>for a lot of midwomen. And again I'm not telling

0:28:25.727 --> 0:28:28.687
<v Speaker 2>anyone to cover their arms, but for me, it's got sleeves.

0:28:28.687 --> 0:28:30.887
<v Speaker 2>But it's still gorgeous.

0:28:30.407 --> 0:28:32.087
<v Speaker 1>And you feel better with that kind of car.

0:28:32.327 --> 0:28:34.727
<v Speaker 2>It's got these wide sleeves, it's got a very lovely cut.

0:28:34.767 --> 0:28:37.207
<v Speaker 2>I love that fricking dress. It's called the Coco sequence.

0:28:37.247 --> 0:28:39.807
<v Speaker 1>Peration to purchase, But may I suggest if you've hired

0:28:39.847 --> 0:28:41.647
<v Speaker 1>it from the same place that many times offer them,

0:28:41.727 --> 0:28:44.407
<v Speaker 1>to buy it, because oftentimes higher places will sell X rental.

0:28:45.007 --> 0:28:46.447
<v Speaker 1>So just say, hey, can I buy that?

0:28:46.487 --> 0:28:48.407
<v Speaker 2>I pretty much live in that dress.

0:28:48.647 --> 0:28:48.847
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:28:49.047 --> 0:28:50.847
<v Speaker 2>And the other thing I'm dying to buy that I

0:28:50.887 --> 0:28:55.247
<v Speaker 2>need permission to isn't need Habit shoes. Do you know

0:28:55.327 --> 0:29:00.007
<v Speaker 2>that brand? Ain't Abbot? Please? There are Australian quite classy shoes.

0:29:00.367 --> 0:29:02.127
<v Speaker 2>I go to their site all the time and just

0:29:02.167 --> 0:29:03.727
<v Speaker 2>look at them all. But see, this is the thing

0:29:03.727 --> 0:29:05.727
<v Speaker 2>about shoes, right, those shoes are a.

0:29:05.767 --> 0:29:09.647
<v Speaker 1>Bow tee four. Oh they're four ninety five. Yeah, they're

0:29:09.727 --> 0:29:11.767
<v Speaker 1>like expensive, three twenty.

0:29:12.487 --> 0:29:14.687
<v Speaker 2>I love a lot of their shoes. But then these

0:29:14.847 --> 0:29:18.167
<v Speaker 2>all bad sandals were two sixty nine, which is quite

0:29:18.207 --> 0:29:18.967
<v Speaker 2>expensive for me.

0:29:19.727 --> 0:29:22.727
<v Speaker 1>But you're paying for comfort, and like, I shall look

0:29:22.767 --> 0:29:25.527
<v Speaker 1>into this and report back. And a nice segue there

0:29:25.647 --> 0:29:28.127
<v Speaker 1>is my bougie is a pair of shoes not as

0:29:28.207 --> 0:29:30.607
<v Speaker 1>boogie as the original shoes I wanted, so they're a dupe.

0:29:30.927 --> 0:29:34.807
<v Speaker 1>So they because I'm ready for winter already. I'm so

0:29:35.967 --> 0:29:38.127
<v Speaker 1>jumping at the bit to get into your winter wardrobe.

0:29:38.167 --> 0:29:40.647
<v Speaker 1>And my winter is similar to last winter that I'm

0:29:40.647 --> 0:29:43.807
<v Speaker 1>doing a lot of light colors, grays and beigia's, and

0:29:43.887 --> 0:29:45.607
<v Speaker 1>I don't love a dark shoe either, do you.

0:29:45.847 --> 0:29:48.687
<v Speaker 2>You don't miss color. You're not a color person, and.

0:29:50.367 --> 0:29:53.247
<v Speaker 1>It makes it harder to get dressed. Yeah, I like shades.

0:29:53.687 --> 0:29:55.447
<v Speaker 2>You look great than neutrals, thank you.

0:29:55.767 --> 0:29:57.927
<v Speaker 1>I have very large feet, not that we doesn't matter.

0:29:57.927 --> 0:30:00.727
<v Speaker 1>I don't have ankles, so I'm not really about a big,

0:30:00.887 --> 0:30:03.167
<v Speaker 1>chunky black loafer because it just would look silly. So

0:30:03.847 --> 0:30:06.087
<v Speaker 1>there's a loafer I've wanted for quite a while. It's

0:30:06.127 --> 0:30:08.767
<v Speaker 1>a Saint Laurent loafer, which I will not be purchasing

0:30:08.807 --> 0:30:10.687
<v Speaker 1>as it is in the budget. And also the jupe

0:30:10.767 --> 0:30:12.767
<v Speaker 1>is fabulous. So the Saint Laurent loafer is called the

0:30:12.847 --> 0:30:15.967
<v Speaker 1>lo Loafer leather loafers. They're one thousand, six hundred dollars

0:30:16.007 --> 0:30:18.447
<v Speaker 1>and they come in sort of an ivory color. Our

0:30:18.567 --> 0:30:21.167
<v Speaker 1>lovely friends at Tony Bianco have done is similar I'd

0:30:21.247 --> 0:30:25.607
<v Speaker 1>say jute, but not a rip off called the Nice Gatsby.

0:30:26.007 --> 0:30:27.767
<v Speaker 1>The color I like, well, the color I bought that's

0:30:27.807 --> 0:30:31.647
<v Speaker 1>on the way. It's vanilla Vanilla venice. Because I'm going

0:30:31.687 --> 0:30:34.207
<v Speaker 1>to be like a light colored, like a milky colored

0:30:34.607 --> 0:30:37.527
<v Speaker 1>loafer with my wide leg pants, which I'll never be

0:30:37.647 --> 0:30:39.047
<v Speaker 1>up in my jeans. But also I'm going to be

0:30:39.087 --> 0:30:40.287
<v Speaker 1>a flowy maxie in a knit.

0:30:41.607 --> 0:30:43.167
<v Speaker 2>So the flowy Maxie.

0:30:43.687 --> 0:30:46.687
<v Speaker 1>I'm proud of myself for not spending Saint Laurent money

0:30:46.727 --> 0:30:49.167
<v Speaker 1>and somehow that made me justify shoes over two hundred

0:30:49.167 --> 0:30:51.327
<v Speaker 1>dollars from twenty Bianco. But I've got the other of

0:30:51.367 --> 0:30:53.847
<v Speaker 1>their flats. They're comfortable. They've got a returns policy, so

0:30:53.847 --> 0:30:55.207
<v Speaker 1>when they turn up, if I don't like them, I'll

0:30:55.207 --> 0:30:58.087
<v Speaker 1>return them. But I just think women of a certain

0:30:58.127 --> 0:31:00.447
<v Speaker 1>age is sick of being uncomfortable. I want shoes I

0:31:00.607 --> 0:31:02.487
<v Speaker 1>look forward to wearing that are comfortable, and a bag

0:31:02.567 --> 0:31:06.287
<v Speaker 1>that carries all of my physical and emotional life. Hollywayne, right,

0:31:06.367 --> 0:31:06.807
<v Speaker 1>I love you.

0:31:07.047 --> 0:31:09.447
<v Speaker 2>I love your two friends. It's been so good. Come

0:31:09.447 --> 0:31:10.207
<v Speaker 2>on all your shows.

0:31:10.447 --> 0:31:12.087
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I don't want to come on yours because that

0:31:12.087 --> 0:31:14.487
<v Speaker 1>means I'm officially met and I've only just started Magel.

0:31:14.927 --> 0:31:15.967
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for joining me.

0:31:16.287 --> 0:31:16.927
<v Speaker 2>Thank you, Lee.

0:31:17.567 --> 0:31:20.407
<v Speaker 1>Well, that was my dream to have my girl crush,

0:31:20.447 --> 0:31:22.807
<v Speaker 1>Holly Wainewright on the show, so I'm very happy. So

0:31:22.967 --> 0:31:24.727
<v Speaker 1>thank you for listening to Nothing to Wear. I hope

0:31:24.767 --> 0:31:27.367
<v Speaker 1>you enjoyed. And it wouldn't have been possible without the

0:31:27.447 --> 0:31:30.687
<v Speaker 1>wonderful producer that is Cassie Merritt, with audio production by

0:31:30.767 --> 0:31:31.247
<v Speaker 1>Lou Hill.