Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mama Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. Hello, it's Holly Wayne
Speaker 2: right here, and we are dropping an episode of a
Speaker 2: show called Nothing to Wear in your midfeed. And if
Speaker 2: you're wondering why look, indulge me because it was a
Speaker 2: dream of mine to get to go and talk to
Speaker 2: Lee Campbell about clothes for a little while. And she
Speaker 2: asked me on because she's like, oh, you're fifty ish,
Speaker 2: let's just say and you don't look terrible. I was
Speaker 2: like what. So we have a chat about how I
Speaker 2: approach clothes at this point of my life, how I
Speaker 2: feel about my body and how I dress and how
Speaker 2: I want to dress, and what's been easiest for me
Speaker 2: to do. I'm not a fashionist, as many of you know,
Speaker 2: but at the same time, I do love clothes. It's
Speaker 2: just that I work with Meir Friedman and she loves
Speaker 2: them more and sometimes it's hard to live up to that.
Speaker 2: So anyway, here is an episode with me and Lee
Speaker 2: talking about sidelines for your post fifty wardrobe. If you're
Speaker 2: into that dress, how you want to dress, have a
Speaker 2: great time listen to this and if you want to
Speaker 2: hear more of Nothing to Wear wherever you get your podcasts,
Speaker 2: go follow them in the feed. Lee every week drops
Speaker 2: some serious fashion knowledge. We'll be back next week with
Speaker 2: another episode of MID.
Speaker 1: Whoever said orange is a new pink with seriously disturbed
Speaker 1: laurels for spraying groundbreaking.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you have to do it. You live
Speaker 2: for fashion.
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Nothing to Wear, the podcast that
Speaker 1: solves fashion problems and levels up your wardrobe. I'm Lee
Speaker 1: Campbell and every week I chat to an expert who
Speaker 1: helps us work out how to get more out of
Speaker 1: the clothes we already own and tells us exactly what
Speaker 1: is and isn't worth adding to our wardrobe. Polly Wayne
Speaker 1: Right is a powerhouse for many reasons. She's a co
Speaker 1: host on Mamma Me as flagship podcast Mama Me Are
Speaker 1: Out Loud. She's the best selling author, she is the
Speaker 1: host of one of my is new podcasts, Mid that
Speaker 1: has blown the world away, and a woman who's been
Speaker 1: shaping the way we talk about life, work and womanhood
Speaker 1: for years. So today I'm asking Holly on for a
Speaker 1: bit of a chat to a bit of an in conversation.
Speaker 1: We're diving into something a little more personal, style, specifically
Speaker 1: how to find your style when you're mid and how
Speaker 1: your style evolves. If you've ever stood in front of
Speaker 1: your wardrobe feeling like nothing fits literally or metaphorically, this
Speaker 1: conversation is for you. Holly Waynwright, Hello, Lely, Welcome to
Speaker 1: Nothing to Wear. So I asked, first time guests, can
Speaker 1: you describe your style in three words?
Speaker 2: This is embarrassing because we did this three words style
Speaker 2: thing on out loud, and I can't remember what mine were,
Speaker 2: but I think they were something like relaxed something. And
Speaker 2: then it was suggested to me that one of them
Speaker 2: should be French, and I got really into that and
Speaker 2: then you to me, no, it shouldn't be French. I think, like,
Speaker 2: if I have a picture of my head of what
Speaker 2: I want to look like, right, I want to look
Speaker 2: effortless but put together. Yes, And I'm really attracted to
Speaker 2: a slightly boho vibe but not like hippie buttray of life. No.
Speaker 2: And I love navy, I love colorful shoes. I love
Speaker 2: a nice shirt like I don't know what's the word
Speaker 2: for it, Lely.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I think we're working on your
Speaker 1: three words. Obviously we haven't got them. I don't have mine.
Speaker 1: What is French in terms of a word, because Brenton
Speaker 1: t long Sley, Brenton Tina Beret.
Speaker 2: No, no, no no. If I was picking a style
Speaker 2: icon of the last few years, it would be Sylvie
Speaker 2: from Emily in Paris. Okay, now, not strictly speaking, because
Speaker 2: she flashes a lot of flesh and I do not.
Speaker 2: But she is an older woman, as am I.
Speaker 1: I am now.
Speaker 2: Officially fifty three, which is officially quite grown up. But
Speaker 2: she doesn't conform to lots of rules. But she always
Speaker 2: looks great, like I love she wears these and she's
Speaker 2: in Paris, and she's in Paris, and she wears these
Speaker 2: gorgeous like silk shirts. But you know that look, the
Speaker 2: look I must spying Flora as a grown up is
Speaker 2: she looks older. She's not trying to look twenty, and
Speaker 2: I Am not trying to look twenty or dress twenty.
Speaker 2: And there's all this thing about like, oh, we should
Speaker 2: all be wearing what the gen Z's are wearing, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, I want to look like a grown up,
Speaker 2: but I don't want to look like I've given up.
Speaker 1: Too matronly, which is a silly word in itself.
Speaker 2: I know, but it's kind of what everybody thinks.
Speaker 1: It illustrates what we're trying to say before we get
Speaker 1: into the topic, which is you and mid and your
Speaker 1: amazing podcast meet and how you're a very stylish woman.
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, thanks the ten percent of your wardrobe, you
Speaker 1: were ninety percent of the time.
Speaker 2: So what is on high rotation jeans? So a few
Speaker 2: years ago and I wrote about this, and I've remained
Speaker 2: very wedded to this. I think one of my style
Speaker 2: flaws is that I hold onto things for too like
Speaker 2: a look for too long. But I found a gene
Speaker 2: that I love a few years ago that are by Karina.
Speaker 2: They're an Australian denim brand, and they call the Frayer
Speaker 2: and they're kind of wide, like high waisted but not
Speaker 2: too high waisted, wide leg but not too white. And
Speaker 2: I just love them. And I have a pair. I
Speaker 2: of a white pair, I have a dark blue, I
Speaker 2: have a light blue, I have a mid wash like.
Speaker 2: I have those jeans in almost every color. And if
Speaker 2: I don't know what to wear, my go to uniform
Speaker 2: is those jeans with a shirt. I really like shirts.
Speaker 2: As I've gotten older, away from T shirts, that kind
Speaker 2: of thing shirt and an interesting pair of shoes that
Speaker 2: is like, I don't know what I'm wearing. I'm wearing that.
Speaker 1: Because I don't really have to think about it. You
Speaker 1: know what works.
Speaker 2: And I really like that kind of it's a bit seventy.
Speaker 1: I was going to say, you give off a bit
Speaker 1: seven retro. I like that, not rollers skating retro.
Speaker 2: I know. Also, you would be so modified if you
Speaker 2: came to my house, Lee, because I don't really have
Speaker 2: a proper closet because the bedroom that anyway, long story,
Speaker 2: but my clothes are all over the house. Some are
Speaker 2: in Matilda's room, some are in Billy's room.
Speaker 1: Oh that's hard to get ready.
Speaker 2: And so my ten percent that I wear all the
Speaker 2: time is literally the one that's in my room. And
Speaker 2: I just wear those clothes all the time. And then
Speaker 2: I'll go to my children and I'd be like, oh,
Speaker 2: I remember I've got that dress.
Speaker 1: Yes, so you've physically done an edit by way of storage.
Speaker 2: So a lot of jeans, a lot of shirts, and
Speaker 2: a lot of colorful shoes.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah that's you. And you know what, you haven't
Speaker 1: held onto those jeans for too long.
Speaker 2: They work for you.
Speaker 1: Why start a whole new mission?
Speaker 2: I know I do really like I love them. I'm
Speaker 2: wearing a pair today, dark blue. That my darkest wash.
Speaker 1: I'm into those now. How has your style changed over
Speaker 1: the years. Do you think you used to be in magazines?
Speaker 1: We were both at the same company that we didn't
Speaker 1: know each other until now. Has your style changed much
Speaker 1: or have you always kind of been sure of your parameter?
Speaker 2: I see, I don't think I'm sure of my parameters.
Speaker 2: Like a lot of women, I'm quite insecure about my
Speaker 2: body and my shape and all those things. And I
Speaker 2: know we don't have to say, don't have to be
Speaker 2: like women are atally, So often I've been very insecure
Speaker 2: about what I look like. It's funny that now my
Speaker 2: go to as jeans, because for a very long time
Speaker 2: I never wore jeans. I only wore skirts.
Speaker 1: Were scared of them.
Speaker 2: Dresses, Yes, I was definitely scared of them. I thought
Speaker 2: they didn't flatter me. I thought because I'm short as well,
Speaker 2: like I'm really quite sure five foot three. Often when
Speaker 2: I meet people, they're like, oh, I didn't know you
Speaker 2: were so sure. And I used to only really wear skirts,
Speaker 2: and now I rarely wear skirts. I definitely decided around
Speaker 2: fifty that I was going to make more of an effort.
Speaker 2: Fuck it fifty, yeah, fuck it fifty. And also I
Speaker 2: moved to the country, and I spend a lot of
Speaker 2: my time when I'm there in very comfy, like knock
Speaker 2: around clothes. So when I come to the office, like
Speaker 2: you'd be the same because I, I mean, I wasn't
Speaker 2: in fashion mags the way that you were, or monthly.
Speaker 2: I was in weeklies. But still clothes are a thing,
Speaker 2: makeups of things and cause of thing, and it's fun
Speaker 2: to dress up and come to.
Speaker 1: Work, but every day gets a bit monotonous, whereas now
Speaker 1: you and I are sort of part time here, it's
Speaker 1: fun to do the fancy and then the next day
Speaker 1: you're in your leggings.
Speaker 2: And generationally, it's interesting to me that all the young
Speaker 2: women we work with, who are all very gorgeous and
Speaker 2: cool in all the different ways, but they will come
Speaker 2: to the office in leggings like it. Not all of them,
Speaker 2: but some of them definitely will, And I would never
Speaker 2: I think that must be a bit of a gen
Speaker 2: X thing. Like I am not an active wear out
Speaker 2: of the house unless I am literally just walking the
Speaker 2: dog doing the errands, you know what I mean. If
Speaker 2: I'm going anywhere where I might see people, I have
Speaker 2: to get out of my leggings.
Speaker 1: See. I'm an elder millennial, and I am active where
Speaker 1: outside of active, but not to the office. And I
Speaker 1: sometimes think that maybe there needs to be a bit
Speaker 1: of decorum, But I actually think that's because I'm old
Speaker 1: and things are changing.
Speaker 2: I don't judge it. I just really know, I just
Speaker 2: judge it. I remember saying to one of my young
Speaker 2: colleagues recently, oh, but these aren't work clothes in whatever
Speaker 2: I was wearing. Oh no, And she was like, what
Speaker 2: a work.
Speaker 1: Clothes, particularly in such a casual office. You know, well,
Speaker 1: speaking of this office, you work so closely with me.
Speaker 1: She's a bower bird when it comes to trends. She
Speaker 1: will try anything and maybe everything, all at once. How
Speaker 1: do you personally feel about trends? Do you think they're
Speaker 1: too fast, too intimidating.
Speaker 2: I think they're too fast and to intimidating. And I
Speaker 2: am a late adopter. So Mia will be wearing this
Speaker 2: pair of trainers or whatever, and I'll be like, oh,
Speaker 2: I like those, but they're too much for me, suddenly
Speaker 2: everyone in the office is wearing them, and I'm like, oh, no,
Speaker 2: I don't want to be that. But then six months
Speaker 2: later I'll totally be wearing them.
Speaker 1: Do you feel any pressure to be trend driven or
Speaker 1: to wear trends?
Speaker 2: Though, No, not really. Every now and again I'll get
Speaker 2: a comment from my beloved friend that makes me go
Speaker 2: all like, you know how I was wedded and I
Speaker 2: still am in a way to my wooden soul seventies clogs.
Speaker 1: Yes, they're great.
Speaker 2: I have so many pairs of those.
Speaker 1: So when you find something you really commit, yeah, I do.
Speaker 2: When I find something that I love, I love and
Speaker 2: I'll wear for ages. And I remember mea saying to
Speaker 2: me once like, you just got to stop wearing those,
Speaker 2: they're not cool. I was like, I don't care that
Speaker 2: they're not cool.
Speaker 1: They're kind of a very cool right now. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: it's noisy.
Speaker 2: They were noisy. And what amazes me about me and
Speaker 2: I love love Seeing what she's wearing every day brings
Speaker 2: me a lot of joy. She walks into the meeting
Speaker 2: eight thirty in the morning, and I'm always delighted to
Speaker 2: see what's going on. But I just can't give it
Speaker 2: that much time and energy, and I just.
Speaker 1: Don't Yeah, and the variety, you know, I think it's.
Speaker 2: I can't imagine how many clothes she has, or you,
Speaker 2: my friend, you wear amazing clothes all the time. They're
Speaker 2: very different vibe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, different to me, But I then have the all
Speaker 1: my personalities in my ward. Sometimes she can't decide. Yes.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited and interested. And I've always wanted to
Speaker 1: ask you this in a public arena, to get your
Speaker 1: thoughts on fashion and feminism or fashion versus feminism, because
Speaker 1: I've been a lifestyle journalist for twenty something years, mostly
Speaker 1: writing about talking about lipstick and makeup, and I've always
Speaker 1: had to defend the fact that I believe women can
Speaker 1: be smart and care about current affairs and love eyeshadow.
Speaker 1: So what are your thoughts Can a woman really care
Speaker 1: about both? And is there a line between self expression
Speaker 1: and vanity? Or if we're really feminist, shall we be
Speaker 1: fighting the patriarchy and wearing a plastic bag.
Speaker 2: Of course, I think that absolutely women can care about
Speaker 2: fashion and feminism, of course, and politics and makeup and
Speaker 2: all those things. But it's interesting in that we still
Speaker 2: have this embedded view in our heads that because the
Speaker 2: idea of being a real feminist is that you're not
Speaker 2: kowtowing to the male gate, right, that's the idea. And
Speaker 2: I know this wouldn't be shocking to you, but I
Speaker 2: know very few women who actually dress for the male gaze.
Speaker 2: I agree, including when I was younger. Like I mean,
Speaker 2: because I definitely think as you get older you give
Speaker 2: fewer fucks about dressing for the male gaze. Of course, so.
Speaker 1: When you were younger, do you think you dressed still
Speaker 1: for yourself or for other women or I have some outfits.
Speaker 2: From different eras that were very defining of what I
Speaker 2: was wearing at that moment. I've always worn whatever I
Speaker 2: want or whatever I felt comfortable, and, as I say,
Speaker 2: with all the usual insecurities, you know, I remember there
Speaker 2: were phases when I would be in relationships and the
Speaker 2: guy would be like, I like short skirts, and you'd
Speaker 2: be like, oh, you know that, and then part of
Speaker 2: you goes okay, and you go and try and you think, yeah,
Speaker 2: but I have never really dressed for men. And I
Speaker 2: think that it's true that for some people clothes and
Speaker 2: more self expression than others. But I think that for
Speaker 2: all of us, feeling confident, feeling positive, feeling powerful is
Speaker 2: a good thing, right, and if that is tied to
Speaker 2: the way you look, that might be patriarchy. You who
Speaker 2: put that idea there somewhere with a big side of capitalism,
Speaker 2: who want you to buy more things, more things, more things.
Speaker 2: But also if it works for you, I think one
Speaker 2: hundred percent yes.
Speaker 1: Because how do you feel when you've put together a
Speaker 1: good outfit or throw it together and you've come to
Speaker 1: the city. Does it make a difference if you like
Speaker 1: the way you feel in your clothes that day?
Speaker 2: Definitely, one hundred percent it does. And equally, and this
Speaker 2: is one of the things that can be quite confronting
Speaker 2: as you age, right, is that sometimes making and I
Speaker 2: hate to use the words, but making a bit of
Speaker 2: an effort, like you know, putting on the lipstick or
Speaker 2: wearing that outfit, you can become invisible very quickly when
Speaker 2: you don't as you get older.
Speaker 1: Because I think there's a difference between giving no fucks
Speaker 1: and stop trying, because as long as you're trying for yourself, I.
Speaker 2: Think, but that's the key, trying for yourself because often
Speaker 2: when people say, oh, she's given up, that statement is
Speaker 2: so loaded, right, It's often about bodies and it's about
Speaker 2: gray hair, and it's about a lot of things that
Speaker 2: don't necessarily mean anyone's given up anything, but what I
Speaker 2: do think, and I've certainly been through periods of my
Speaker 2: life like this. When I don't like the way I
Speaker 2: look at all, I do try and disappear. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: you shrink, you shrink. And I often say that I
Speaker 2: can be invisible if I want to be, because there's
Speaker 2: a middle I hate the term middle aged, but that's
Speaker 2: how the external world would look at me. If I'm
Speaker 2: wearing my daggy leggings and a big old T shirt
Speaker 2: and I've got my hairscraped back and I'm not wearing makeup,
Speaker 2: you know, then of course I just look like a
Speaker 2: middle aged lady.
Speaker 1: And do you like that? I do. I like the ability.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm forty three next month, and I think
Speaker 1: I've got to the point where I dress fully for myself,
Speaker 1: not for my girlfriends anymore, definitely not for my husband,
Speaker 1: because i'd be wearing red late eggs. But I also like,
Speaker 1: I care what I want to care, but I don't
Speaker 1: feel pressure to care if I don't have it in
Speaker 1: me that day.
Speaker 2: If I don't have it in me, I don't have
Speaker 2: it in me. But I think what's interesting is that
Speaker 2: if the story you start telling yourself is that I'm invisible,
Speaker 2: I'm no longer interesting to look at, I'm no longer
Speaker 2: valuable and to be seen in this world. Because it's
Speaker 2: a really, really pervasive idea that only young women are
Speaker 2: interesting in sexy, right, And so we've all digested that.
Speaker 2: It's fine if that's fine for you. But if I
Speaker 2: have a theory that the reason that women at a
Speaker 2: certain age suddenly start wearing red lipstick, which I certainly did,
Speaker 2: I'm weaning myself off the redipsick or the big earrings,
Speaker 2: all those stereotypes we have. It's just a way of saying, hey,
Speaker 2: I'm here, right, and whatever makes you happy, you should do.
Speaker 2: And I don't think that caring about clothes, caring about fashion,
Speaker 2: caring about lipstick is in any way anti feminist. I
Speaker 2: think that.
Speaker 1: Idea is dead, Thank goodness, because I felt that too.
Speaker 1: But you are my moral compass.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Last year you launched Mid, which is a podcast that
Speaker 1: has changed my life. I am forty three next month,
Speaker 1: as I mentioned, and I'm definitely mid.
Speaker 2: I am on You're only just mid, but welcome I'm.
Speaker 1: Middle, well if I live to eighty something, but I'm
Speaker 1: your own replacement. Loves that the show really does cater
Speaker 1: for you know, anywhere, for everybody. It's for everybody. How
Speaker 1: has Mid changed how you feel about all of this
Speaker 1: stuff in terms of getting dressed, putting in an effort? Also,
Speaker 1: our podcasts have recently gone video.
Speaker 2: I don't know that many women who love looking at
Speaker 2: themselves endlessly close up talk.
Speaker 1: Yes over the internet, and you have to be on
Speaker 1: every day.
Speaker 2: I it's interesting because we were just talking about, you know,
Speaker 2: I am here, I'm still here, I'm not invisible. But
Speaker 2: I've also had to decouple myself a bit from just
Speaker 2: that constant self critique. It's like, you look old, you're jowled,
Speaker 2: you're this, you're that. Yeah, very much, tell that voice
Speaker 2: to take a shushy yes. But I've found making mid
Speaker 2: so oh goodness, really cheesy word, but empowering because the
Speaker 2: thing that I'm really passionate about is whatever you want
Speaker 2: to look like, whatever you want to wear, whatever that's
Speaker 2: up to you as you get older. But just don't
Speaker 2: stop being you, right, Because as I was just saying
Speaker 2: about this script, we've all internalized is my times over.
Speaker 2: I've got to sit down, let the young'uns take over. Yes,
Speaker 2: the young and should be taking Like I've got a
Speaker 2: fifteen year old daughter, and I get so much joy
Speaker 2: from watching her beauty and her you know, when I
Speaker 2: said beauty, I just mean like, to me, she's beautiful.
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily mean she's a beauty, but and watching
Speaker 2: her play with all that stuff. And it's funny because
Speaker 2: as a feminist mother, though, I do often find myself saying,
Speaker 2: stop staring at yourself so much. I'm not in any way.
Speaker 2: You know, you hear those tropes about like then the
Speaker 2: middle aged ones get jealousy. Yeah, I don't feel that
Speaker 2: even a tiny bit. I'm like, you go, girl, I
Speaker 2: can't wait to see you really rocking these years and
Speaker 2: finding yourself and get more comfortable, hopefully all the time.
Speaker 2: But I also think that there's room for all of
Speaker 2: us to still be seen and visible and still be
Speaker 2: pushing things and taking risks and making new stuff. And
Speaker 2: one of the things that's been great about mid is
Speaker 2: when I ask the audience, like, send me your pictures
Speaker 2: and tell me what you're doing, and tell me what
Speaker 2: you're exciting about. These women are doing amazing shit, and
Speaker 2: many of them look great doing it. In fact, of
Speaker 2: course they all look great doing it. But it's that
Speaker 2: thing of like, I'm still here, you can still see me,
Speaker 2: the world can still see me. I'm not stopping, I'm
Speaker 2: not suddenly fading into the background. There are still things
Speaker 2: I want to do, places, I want to go adventures.
Speaker 2: I want to have dresses I want to wear. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's what I love.
Speaker 1: About And I feel like from that I've taken mid
Speaker 1: It might be a life stage in terms of age,
Speaker 1: but it's not a label. You don't have to be
Speaker 1: that's all you are. No, it's nothing about that, not
Speaker 1: at all.
Speaker 2: And also the other thing is we've again with this
Speaker 2: agism that we've all internalized. We're why Like when I
Speaker 2: think about U, LEI like nearly all the amazing women
Speaker 2: I know, think of all the shit you've lived through, Like,
Speaker 2: think of all the things you've been through, all the
Speaker 2: different versions of yourself. You've been trials, you've survived, the disappointments,
Speaker 2: the griefs, the triumphs. We're amazing, and yet somehow we've
Speaker 2: all been convinced that we're really sad. And it's like
Speaker 2: we need to take that Lie back, whizz it up
Speaker 2: and throw it back in people's face because how wise
Speaker 2: and powerful you are today, You've never been as wise
Speaker 2: and powerful as.
Speaker 1: And it's just going to get better.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: You touched on around turning fifty, you kind of had
Speaker 1: I won't put words in your mouth at a light
Speaker 1: bob moment. You wanted to really feel good. So how
Speaker 1: did you approach that with fashion?
Speaker 2: You know how we always, when we used to consume
Speaker 2: fashion magazines all the time, dressing is always like bottle
Speaker 2: make you look taller, wottle make you look slimmer, bottle
Speaker 2: make you look younger. What's flatwering? What's this?
Speaker 1: And when out your body shape? You're a pair he
Speaker 1: this way.
Speaker 2: Exactly, and you have all these scripts in your head
Speaker 2: about I can't wear this, and I can't wear that,
Speaker 2: and I can't wear that, and I think that part
Speaker 2: of this whole reclaiming of things. I was like, I
Speaker 2: can wear what I want, you know, and I will
Speaker 2: die on the hill that any woman can wear what
Speaker 2: they want, what she wants in terms of how much
Speaker 2: flesh she wants to flash and all that. That's not
Speaker 2: my thing, but like, go hard if it's your thing.
Speaker 2: But I was like I don't want to stop feeling
Speaker 2: like me. And also because I'm not hugely confident in fashion,
Speaker 2: finding a kind of a bit of a uniform for
Speaker 2: that period that was my shirts and jeans, which I'm
Speaker 2: kind of trying to break out of them. So it
Speaker 2: was nearly useful because it means now that when I
Speaker 2: go shopping and I get a bit overwhelmed, or at
Speaker 2: least in that period, I'd be like, well, what I'm
Speaker 2: looking for is interesting.
Speaker 1: Shits a bit of a safety net, h Like, I've
Speaker 1: got all.
Speaker 2: These great pairs of jeans whatever that I know look
Speaker 2: good with a shirt and a shoe. So where can
Speaker 2: I find interesting shirts?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: And then colors, Oh, godly don't know.
Speaker 1: We're not going into colors. Wear whatever color.
Speaker 2: I know, but I for a long time would only
Speaker 2: wear blue because I love blue. And I walk into
Speaker 2: a shop and I'm nearly always I.
Speaker 1: Think we were in Maya once and you bought a
Speaker 1: cornflower blues something I.
Speaker 2: Did, and I bought a white Greek shirt with like
Speaker 2: this blue. I love that shit. I still wear it.
Speaker 2: You can get a bit stuck in those roots, and
Speaker 2: I was definitely stuck in a blue rot still I'm
Speaker 2: wearing navy today, so I kind of try and push
Speaker 2: myself out of those things. But it's also okay, have
Speaker 2: you comfort?
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that's called personal style.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good thing and it suits me, I think.
Speaker 1: So are you feeling a bit on the edge of
Speaker 1: a little bit of an evolution? I am.
Speaker 2: I'm feeling like, what does that look like? I'm not sure,
Speaker 2: but I've suddenly started wearing flat shoes, which I haven't
Speaker 2: done for years. Obviously I wear flat shoes in my
Speaker 2: real life, but in my work life. Back to that
Speaker 2: sort of insecurity thing and the feeling like I'm a
Speaker 2: bit short, I always wear a little bit of a heel,
Speaker 2: my clogs or those awesome shoes that you got me
Speaker 2: to buy.
Speaker 1: But when you walk into the studio today, said Holly,
Speaker 1: I love your cage sandals, and you said, thank you.
Speaker 1: What's a cage sand? And it's like a thatched sandal,
Speaker 1: but it's closed at the toes. So they're very transseasonal.
Speaker 1: They're the color of the season, cherry red. So look
Speaker 1: how trendy you are.
Speaker 2: I've always loved colorful shoes. Okay. I think that goes
Speaker 2: back to the times that I haven't felt very confident.
Speaker 2: You can wear black and a great pair of colorful shoes,
Speaker 2: you can wear jeans, so I've always had I don't
Speaker 2: think I own any black shoes, maybe one, and.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, pregnancy aside, usually your shoes fit
Speaker 1: in your back fit exact. At least it's like I'm
Speaker 1: going to bring my joy there if I'm throwing on something.
Speaker 2: So I bought these the shoes are wearing today my
Speaker 2: new favorite thing. They are from Bed and they are
Speaker 2: a bright red cherry red sandal and far out. They
Speaker 2: make me happy.
Speaker 1: They're so good to women who are meet or in
Speaker 1: their fifties and they feel like they're stuck in a
Speaker 1: style rush. What's your advice.
Speaker 2: I think that find a couple of pieces that make
Speaker 2: you feel great and work from that. I know I've
Speaker 2: already said it a few times, but I think that
Speaker 2: just discovering this bit of a uniform for me was
Speaker 2: a bit of a turning point, and then it let
Speaker 2: me play with it. So then I was like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: if I can wear this kind of seventies is Geene
Speaker 2: and shirt think i'd probably wear like a denim line
Speaker 2: with my cloggy shoes and.
Speaker 1: That was line piece. Yea phase you were great with you.
Speaker 2: That was good and it's still in the same yeah, exactly,
Speaker 2: and so that made me feel good. Just start with
Speaker 2: something that doesn't feel too scary. And you know what
Speaker 2: the other thing is is that when you change your
Speaker 2: style a bit, if you don't live in a fashioning world,
Speaker 2: sometimes the people around you can make you feel a
Speaker 2: bit embarrassed about it. They can be like I remember
Speaker 2: when I was in my peak experimental phase and I
Speaker 2: turned up to a place with my old friends and
Speaker 2: I was wearing like these cargo like these sort of
Speaker 2: I don't know why I was wearing them. Actually look
Speaker 2: at the cargo. They were like blue cargo panty pants.
Speaker 2: And my friend was like, who do you think you are?
Speaker 2: Like you're a twelve year old boy. I was like,
Speaker 2: well maybe I am today?
Speaker 1: Yeah no, does S don't comment?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, So don't let other people scare you and
Speaker 2: just find something you like and then sort of branch
Speaker 2: out from there.
Speaker 1: I so agree because I think the volume I mean
Speaker 1: mea and myself aside, who probably have a problem volume
Speaker 1: is not an ideal scenario. If you're not going to
Speaker 1: wear it, just get your key pieces that's your ten percent.
Speaker 1: You don't have to have the ninety percent hiding feet
Speaker 1: in the back there.
Speaker 2: I am a mid range queen, right, so I'm scared
Speaker 2: of really expensive clothes, but I'm not really a fast fashion.
Speaker 1: Caut range if when it comes to everything, I'm like.
Speaker 2: I don't want the cheapest and I don't want the
Speaker 2: must expensive. Yeah, it's very realistic.
Speaker 1: It's not embarrassing. That's how most people are. They want
Speaker 1: stuff to lie, not to have to mortgage your hair
Speaker 1: because exactly, it's like.
Speaker 2: If you like your genes to look like their quality,
Speaker 2: you know, blah blah. And also, I literally do wear
Speaker 2: things for years, which you know it's maybe a bit
Speaker 2: embarrassing for me, but I do.
Speaker 1: It's not holly. That's how the world was speaking of
Speaker 1: what we wear or what we want to wear. Bougie
Speaker 1: and budget time.
Speaker 2: It's very expensive.
Speaker 1: How please start with your budget?
Speaker 2: Okay, so my budget is really boring, but my MVP
Speaker 2: of budget fashion is a pair of denim shorts as
Speaker 2: you get mid and this isn't true for everybody. Some
Speaker 2: people can still rock the hot pants.
Speaker 1: But I don't want to.
Speaker 2: I wear shorts in summer a lot, right, But they
Speaker 2: have to be the right lengths, not too short but
Speaker 2: not too long.
Speaker 1: Though, and wide enough on the thigh.
Speaker 2: Wide enough on the thigh and high enough in the
Speaker 2: waist that they're a bit flattering, but that you don't
Speaker 2: feel like your button. And the best pad found are
Speaker 2: from Just Jeans, and they called the original seam front
Speaker 2: short and they're denim and they're about fifty five dollars.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I live in this style of short
Speaker 1: too often. I do a paper bag waste soo because
Speaker 1: with my endo, I like that it kind of looks fashion.
Speaker 1: But then when I'm bloated, if it's not wide enough
Speaker 1: on the thigh, I'm furious.
Speaker 2: No, you need just change so and I have worn
Speaker 2: those all summer long, and I just think that it
Speaker 2: comes to things like shorts. I'm not going to spend
Speaker 2: lots of money, no, but also it's a particular cut
Speaker 2: that you want, and then when you find it that
Speaker 2: she want.
Speaker 1: I agree. I found some that I love to and look,
Speaker 1: I will wear a longer short like that with maybe
Speaker 1: a kitten heel and a shirt to the office, But
Speaker 1: then at home, I'm so hot and I'm so pery,
Speaker 1: and my bedroom is in the attic and I'm in
Speaker 1: a uniglow cotton singlet and those shorts.
Speaker 2: That's life and I love them.
Speaker 1: My budget is a bag because I feel like, metaphorically,
Speaker 1: when you get to mid you need good shoes and
Speaker 1: good bags because they're carrying you.
Speaker 2: I need a good bag.
Speaker 1: They're carrying your shit and your emotions and your to
Speaker 1: do li and everything with you. That's why I think
Speaker 1: I'm not saying expensive, but quality shoes and bags really
Speaker 1: get you through at this life stage. Because he's sick
Speaker 1: of being uncomfortable. He's sick. It's stupid little bags you
Speaker 1: can't carry anything in. So it's the Marks and Spencer
Speaker 1: M and S Collection quilted shoulder bag. I'm about to
Speaker 1: buy it to Google. Well it's ninety nine ninety nine,
Speaker 1: but at the time of recording they have twenty percent off
Speaker 1: selected styles. This is included. They always have twenty percent off.
Speaker 1: It's a huge bag. I'm going to show you. I
Speaker 1: don't know if the finish will be you, but it's
Speaker 1: this black, sort of bubbly fake leather vinyl looking thing.
Speaker 1: The whole thing zip shut because I'm in the phase
Speaker 1: of forgetfulness through rush life and I put it in
Speaker 1: my car and of course I break and then my
Speaker 1: bag falls over and everything's everywhere.
Speaker 2: I hate that.
Speaker 1: It's ninety nine, ninety nine, it's huge, zip shut great
Speaker 1: for travel, and then there's like a tanny color. They've
Speaker 1: got really good bags. At the moment, hole like, I
Speaker 1: want a tote that fits my whole life and zip shut.
Speaker 2: You know, because I'm a commuter person now, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: this is one thing I need advice from that. I
Speaker 2: know this isn't an advice show.
Speaker 1: Well, people don't know how often you and I talk
Speaker 1: about these and I love it. I'll get a message
Speaker 1: from Hollyway and on a Sunday go I'm in Mecca.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm like, I need a bronze to tell me
Speaker 2: which one. And I also do that with shoes. You
Speaker 2: and me are a very excellent purpose in my life
Speaker 2: in this way. And to be honest, you're more reliable
Speaker 2: with your recommendations. She's to me, She's exciting, but she's mean, Okay,
Speaker 2: what is your bougie? All right? So both my bougies
Speaker 2: are things I haven't bought. But I think I'm seeking
Speaker 2: permission right because.
Speaker 1: I don't forget I have to tell listeners about the
Speaker 1: shoes I helped you buy.
Speaker 2: Oh for one hundred percent, So I don't know if
Speaker 2: these classify as bougie. I guess they do. But when
Speaker 2: last time I asked you, I said, I want a
Speaker 2: mid heel, pointy, like look stressy but not uncomfortable. You
Speaker 2: put me onto this brand called Vivea, isn't I saying
Speaker 2: that that's right Vivea? And they I bought these bad.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I love them. I'm so excited for
Speaker 2: it to be cold again because they're like very close
Speaker 2: toe point he a bit much for this time of year. Red,
Speaker 2: which is one of my favorite colors. It's got these
Speaker 2: like sea throughy directional heels. I love, little bit of
Speaker 2: a heel, but not too much, very pointy, which I
Speaker 2: never normally wear. But because they're this stretchy material, they're great.
Speaker 1: It's like a knitted fabric. A lot of people have
Speaker 1: seen ankle boots, like pointy ankle boots in this knitted fabric,
Speaker 1: almost like a holyyist a sock type vibe. But these
Speaker 1: ones they do a courtry and sling back.
Speaker 2: So I bought those and I wore them to death.
Speaker 2: And then I bought a navy blue sling back pair
Speaker 2: of those with a little kitten heel and I love
Speaker 2: those too, and they are comfy and they are great.
Speaker 2: And that's the thing is that one of the things
Speaker 2: I think about trends is I don't feel like I'm cooler. Well,
Speaker 2: I don't want to be. It's not that I don't
Speaker 2: feel like I am cool enough to wear something really
Speaker 2: like out their directional stretchy boots, but I like a
Speaker 2: hint of it, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: So don't want to wear it next winter in the
Speaker 1: winter after, and you want to be comfortable exactly.
Speaker 2: But the thing I'm thinking about buying, there's a dress
Speaker 2: that I have hired from Dress Higher Place three maybe
Speaker 2: four times now, and it costs me two hundred dollars
Speaker 2: every time. I dress should have bought the dress. And
Speaker 2: it's a rixos Oh I love, and it's I wore
Speaker 2: it to the Live shirt. And it's green because green
Speaker 2: is another color I can wear. And it is sequins.
Speaker 2: But it's got sleeves because this is a big thing
Speaker 2: for a lot of midwomen. And again I'm not telling
Speaker 2: anyone to cover their arms, but for me, it's got sleeves.
Speaker 2: But it's still gorgeous.
Speaker 1: And you feel better with that kind of car.
Speaker 2: It's got these wide sleeves, it's got a very lovely cut.
Speaker 2: I love that fricking dress. It's called the Coco sequence.
Speaker 1: Peration to purchase, But may I suggest if you've hired
Speaker 1: it from the same place that many times offer them,
Speaker 1: to buy it, because oftentimes higher places will sell X rental.
Speaker 1: So just say, hey, can I buy that?
Speaker 2: I pretty much live in that dress.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And the other thing I'm dying to buy that I
Speaker 2: need permission to isn't need Habit shoes. Do you know
Speaker 2: that brand? Ain't Abbot? Please? There are Australian quite classy shoes.
Speaker 2: I go to their site all the time and just
Speaker 2: look at them all. But see, this is the thing
Speaker 2: about shoes, right, those shoes are a.
Speaker 1: Bow tee four. Oh they're four ninety five. Yeah, they're
Speaker 1: like expensive, three twenty.
Speaker 2: I love a lot of their shoes. But then these
Speaker 2: all bad sandals were two sixty nine, which is quite
Speaker 2: expensive for me.
Speaker 1: But you're paying for comfort, and like, I shall look
Speaker 1: into this and report back. And a nice segue there
Speaker 1: is my bougie is a pair of shoes not as
Speaker 1: boogie as the original shoes I wanted, so they're a dupe.
Speaker 1: So they because I'm ready for winter already. I'm so
Speaker 1: jumping at the bit to get into your winter wardrobe.
Speaker 1: And my winter is similar to last winter that I'm
Speaker 1: doing a lot of light colors, grays and beigia's, and
Speaker 1: I don't love a dark shoe either, do you.
Speaker 2: You don't miss color. You're not a color person, and.
Speaker 1: It makes it harder to get dressed. Yeah, I like shades.
Speaker 2: You look great than neutrals, thank you.
Speaker 1: I have very large feet, not that we doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: I don't have ankles, so I'm not really about a big,
Speaker 1: chunky black loafer because it just would look silly. So
Speaker 1: there's a loafer I've wanted for quite a while. It's
Speaker 1: a Saint Laurent loafer, which I will not be purchasing
Speaker 1: as it is in the budget. And also the jupe
Speaker 1: is fabulous. So the Saint Laurent loafer is called the
Speaker 1: lo Loafer leather loafers. They're one thousand, six hundred dollars
Speaker 1: and they come in sort of an ivory color. Our
Speaker 1: lovely friends at Tony Bianco have done is similar I'd
Speaker 1: say jute, but not a rip off called the Nice Gatsby.
Speaker 1: The color I like, well, the color I bought that's
Speaker 1: on the way. It's vanilla Vanilla venice. Because I'm going
Speaker 1: to be like a light colored, like a milky colored
Speaker 1: loafer with my wide leg pants, which I'll never be
Speaker 1: up in my jeans. But also I'm going to be
Speaker 1: a flowy maxie in a knit.
Speaker 2: So the flowy Maxie.
Speaker 1: I'm proud of myself for not spending Saint Laurent money
Speaker 1: and somehow that made me justify shoes over two hundred
Speaker 1: dollars from twenty Bianco. But I've got the other of
Speaker 1: their flats. They're comfortable. They've got a returns policy, so
Speaker 1: when they turn up, if I don't like them, I'll
Speaker 1: return them. But I just think women of a certain
Speaker 1: age is sick of being uncomfortable. I want shoes I
Speaker 1: look forward to wearing that are comfortable, and a bag
Speaker 1: that carries all of my physical and emotional life. Hollywayne, right,
Speaker 1: I love you.
Speaker 2: I love your two friends. It's been so good. Come
Speaker 2: on all your shows.
Speaker 1: Yes, I don't want to come on yours because that
Speaker 1: means I'm officially met and I've only just started Magel.
Speaker 1: Thank you for joining me.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Lee.
Speaker 1: Well, that was my dream to have my girl crush,
Speaker 1: Holly Wainewright on the show, so I'm very happy. So
Speaker 1: thank you for listening to Nothing to Wear. I hope
Speaker 1: you enjoyed. And it wouldn't have been possible without the
Speaker 1: wonderful producer that is Cassie Merritt, with audio production by
Speaker 1: Lou Hill.