1 00:00:08,234 --> 00:00:11,553 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma mea podcast. 2 00:00:18,754 --> 00:00:21,354 Speaker 2: From Mamma Mia. Welcome to the Spill your daily pop 3 00:00:21,354 --> 00:00:21,994 Speaker 2: culture fix. 4 00:00:22,114 --> 00:00:25,314 Speaker 1: I'm Tina Burke and I'm Bree Player, executive producer of 5 00:00:25,354 --> 00:00:28,754 Speaker 1: Mama MIA's interview podcast No Filter, and former magazine editor. 6 00:00:29,114 --> 00:00:31,234 Speaker 1: And today we're going to be diving into one of 7 00:00:31,274 --> 00:00:33,913 Speaker 1: the most talked about shows of the moment, Love Story, 8 00:00:34,394 --> 00:00:37,314 Speaker 1: and Ryan Murphy's dramatization of the lives of John F. 9 00:00:37,354 --> 00:00:39,834 Speaker 1: Kennedy Junior and Carolyn Bassett and how one Real Life 10 00:00:39,833 --> 00:00:43,394 Speaker 1: Style feels about their controversial portrayal. Plus we're going to 11 00:00:43,394 --> 00:00:45,793 Speaker 1: be getting into some comments from Bridgeton's Nicola Cocklan that 12 00:00:45,833 --> 00:00:48,313 Speaker 1: had all of our group chats going this weekend. But 13 00:00:48,473 --> 00:00:53,194 Speaker 1: first it was a certain controversial famous boy's birthday over 14 00:00:53,193 --> 00:00:57,234 Speaker 1: the weekend. Our favorite favorite controversial famous boy. 15 00:00:57,474 --> 00:01:00,713 Speaker 2: Yes that is Brooklyn Beckham. If you couldn't guess. 16 00:01:01,474 --> 00:01:04,794 Speaker 1: Who's now actually just famous for being controversial as well. 17 00:01:04,594 --> 00:01:07,034 Speaker 2: As as well as having many careers, one of which 18 00:01:07,234 --> 00:01:09,754 Speaker 2: was failed photography, and we still cherish that book to 19 00:01:09,794 --> 00:01:10,194 Speaker 2: this day. 20 00:01:10,314 --> 00:01:12,274 Speaker 1: We do we do, you know what, to be fair, 21 00:01:12,434 --> 00:01:15,314 Speaker 1: I made his spaghetti bolognaise last week. I'm already going 22 00:01:15,354 --> 00:01:15,834 Speaker 1: off topic. 23 00:01:16,354 --> 00:01:19,154 Speaker 2: It was really good. It was a good boy. Can 24 00:01:19,194 --> 00:01:21,474 Speaker 2: court what was good about it and why? And in 25 00:01:21,554 --> 00:01:22,114 Speaker 2: under ten. 26 00:01:21,994 --> 00:01:26,714 Speaker 1: Seconds ago like it tasted delicious, it was full of veggies. 27 00:01:27,434 --> 00:01:29,394 Speaker 1: I got the tick of approval from my five year 28 00:01:29,434 --> 00:01:32,954 Speaker 1: old nephew who normally says this disgusting and then goes 29 00:01:32,994 --> 00:01:35,114 Speaker 1: over and scrapes at the bin. So it was like 30 00:01:35,154 --> 00:01:38,074 Speaker 1: a win all round. But it actually was genuinely delicious. 31 00:01:37,634 --> 00:01:41,674 Speaker 2: Okay Brooklyn Beckham spaghetti bolonnaise approved by and a five 32 00:01:41,714 --> 00:01:43,834 Speaker 2: year old teddy. Yes. Good. 33 00:01:44,874 --> 00:01:45,074 Speaker 1: Well. 34 00:01:45,114 --> 00:01:47,994 Speaker 2: Along with that, he's also been celebrating his birthday, which 35 00:01:47,994 --> 00:01:49,034 Speaker 2: did happen over the weekend. 36 00:01:49,034 --> 00:01:50,274 Speaker 1: Well, I wonder if he made his own cake. 37 00:01:50,794 --> 00:01:53,074 Speaker 2: Probably, I did see a video of that his wife 38 00:01:53,154 --> 00:01:55,394 Speaker 2: Nicola posted of him getting a bunch of cupcakes delivered. 39 00:01:55,394 --> 00:01:56,794 Speaker 2: But I reckon he'd want to cook his own feast. 40 00:01:56,834 --> 00:01:57,314 Speaker 1: Yeah me too. 41 00:01:57,394 --> 00:01:59,714 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a bit self indulgent that way. Love that guy. 42 00:01:59,914 --> 00:02:02,834 Speaker 2: So he turned to ety seven over the weekend, and 43 00:02:02,914 --> 00:02:05,754 Speaker 2: as I'm sure many people who have access to the 44 00:02:05,754 --> 00:02:08,714 Speaker 2: Internet wouldn't know, he has currently been having a tense 45 00:02:08,754 --> 00:02:12,394 Speaker 2: time with his family, with his parents particular Victoria and David. 46 00:02:12,394 --> 00:02:17,274 Speaker 1: I love at a tense time, that is, yes, but 47 00:02:17,434 --> 00:02:22,513 Speaker 1: they did post birthday messages for him, throwback pics, very 48 00:02:22,554 --> 00:02:25,234 Speaker 1: notably throwback picks of him when he was a kid, 49 00:02:25,874 --> 00:02:28,514 Speaker 1: wishing their son a happy birthday, which on the surface 50 00:02:28,514 --> 00:02:32,154 Speaker 1: seems really nice, but reports are that he didn't take 51 00:02:32,154 --> 00:02:34,754 Speaker 1: it that way. He said he didn't like this kind well, 52 00:02:34,874 --> 00:02:37,434 Speaker 1: according to a source, yes, that this is the kind 53 00:02:37,434 --> 00:02:40,954 Speaker 1: of performative social media stuff that they do that he 54 00:02:41,154 --> 00:02:42,434 Speaker 1: wants to wipe his hands off. 55 00:02:42,674 --> 00:02:45,194 Speaker 2: Yeah, So for anyone who did miss it, Brooklyn did 56 00:02:45,194 --> 00:02:49,114 Speaker 2: put up a sixth page Instagram story slideshow two months 57 00:02:49,154 --> 00:02:52,034 Speaker 2: ago about the fact that his family were behaving in 58 00:02:52,074 --> 00:02:53,514 Speaker 2: ways that he didn't like, and he'd felt like he 59 00:02:53,554 --> 00:02:55,874 Speaker 2: was under a spotlight growing up, and that his parents 60 00:02:55,914 --> 00:02:58,154 Speaker 2: had been controlling, a manipulative in all of those things. 61 00:02:58,154 --> 00:03:01,274 Speaker 2: And he explicitly said at that time that social media 62 00:03:01,394 --> 00:03:04,234 Speaker 2: was one of the ways that they had tried to 63 00:03:04,234 --> 00:03:06,114 Speaker 2: paint a picture of a perfect family. So that his 64 00:03:06,154 --> 00:03:08,954 Speaker 2: twenty seventh birthday, role Around and David Victoria both posted 65 00:03:08,954 --> 00:03:11,874 Speaker 2: pictures of him as a child twenty seven today. Bust 66 00:03:11,954 --> 00:03:13,834 Speaker 2: we love you is what David said, Bust to being 67 00:03:13,874 --> 00:03:16,434 Speaker 2: his nickname, and then Victoria kind of posted the same, 68 00:03:16,954 --> 00:03:18,994 Speaker 2: and you're right, it seems like a sweet gesture. But 69 00:03:19,074 --> 00:03:21,394 Speaker 2: I guess if you're Brooklyn and your whole thing is 70 00:03:21,394 --> 00:03:24,314 Speaker 2: that your parents were using you or manipulating you and 71 00:03:24,514 --> 00:03:26,674 Speaker 2: using social media to do it, you might not see 72 00:03:26,674 --> 00:03:27,114 Speaker 2: it that way. 73 00:03:27,194 --> 00:03:29,434 Speaker 1: Look, I've actually been a bit I've been team Brooklyn 74 00:03:29,474 --> 00:03:31,634 Speaker 1: and Nicola this whole time. But I do feel in 75 00:03:31,674 --> 00:03:34,754 Speaker 1: this situation that David and Victoria there was no way 76 00:03:34,794 --> 00:03:37,114 Speaker 1: to win. If they did it, they were being performative. 77 00:03:37,154 --> 00:03:40,474 Speaker 1: If they didn't do it, they publicly ignored Brooklyn's birthday. 78 00:03:40,674 --> 00:03:42,874 Speaker 1: So I don't really know what the win is there, 79 00:03:42,914 --> 00:03:45,034 Speaker 1: but this is the moral of this whole story. There 80 00:03:45,074 --> 00:03:46,394 Speaker 1: is no win in a family rift. 81 00:03:46,754 --> 00:03:49,354 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, because I think the big thing of the 82 00:03:49,394 --> 00:03:52,394 Speaker 2: last few weeks especially, they've been under this microscope, like 83 00:03:52,434 --> 00:03:54,874 Speaker 2: everything they post is being dissected. People are like, what 84 00:03:54,914 --> 00:03:56,914 Speaker 2: does this mean for their relationship with Brooklyn? So if 85 00:03:56,914 --> 00:03:59,634 Speaker 2: they'd said nothing on his twenty seventh birthday, obviously fans 86 00:03:59,674 --> 00:04:01,834 Speaker 2: would have had a crack at them. But at the 87 00:04:01,874 --> 00:04:05,074 Speaker 2: same time, if you are to ask someone who's estranged 88 00:04:05,074 --> 00:04:06,794 Speaker 2: from their parents, or if you would ask someone who's 89 00:04:06,794 --> 00:04:08,874 Speaker 2: gone no contact with their parents, what they would think 90 00:04:08,914 --> 00:04:11,634 Speaker 2: if they received a birth their tribute from that parent. 91 00:04:12,034 --> 00:04:14,754 Speaker 2: It probably would feel not great or film manipulity of 92 00:04:14,794 --> 00:04:16,554 Speaker 2: all the things that Brooklyn has said, but it does 93 00:04:16,594 --> 00:04:19,314 Speaker 2: feel like David in Victoria probably felt like they had 94 00:04:19,354 --> 00:04:19,993 Speaker 2: no other option. 95 00:04:20,234 --> 00:04:22,394 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it actually like is in line 96 00:04:22,394 --> 00:04:25,073 Speaker 1: with every reaction we've seen of them since, which is 97 00:04:25,274 --> 00:04:27,313 Speaker 1: business as usual. Yeah. 98 00:04:27,354 --> 00:04:29,193 Speaker 2: And I think their whole thing is like, we love 99 00:04:29,234 --> 00:04:31,833 Speaker 2: our kids, Hopefully he'll come back around one day. 100 00:04:32,034 --> 00:04:34,713 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I agree. The other thing quickly while we 101 00:04:34,753 --> 00:04:37,753 Speaker 1: are quickly talking about Brooklyn is his wife Nicola. Yes, 102 00:04:37,953 --> 00:04:41,593 Speaker 1: did have a TV appearance. She's my god, she is 103 00:04:41,633 --> 00:04:42,194 Speaker 1: an actor? 104 00:04:42,714 --> 00:04:44,633 Speaker 2: Is this her biggest role in like a long time? 105 00:04:44,714 --> 00:04:46,313 Speaker 1: It is her biggest role in a long time. And 106 00:04:46,354 --> 00:04:48,393 Speaker 1: it's also a Ryan Murphy, which we're going to be 107 00:04:48,393 --> 00:04:50,993 Speaker 1: getting into him later. But what did you think? 108 00:04:51,393 --> 00:04:54,073 Speaker 2: So she is appearing on is It's the Beauty Yes, 109 00:04:54,073 --> 00:04:56,633 Speaker 2: with Ashton Kutcher and appear in his Seed. So this 110 00:04:56,674 --> 00:04:59,193 Speaker 2: popped up on my Instagram and she was wearing like 111 00:04:59,274 --> 00:05:02,473 Speaker 2: a tribute to the Isabella Rossellini look in Death becomes 112 00:05:02,474 --> 00:05:05,274 Speaker 2: her like the jeweled necklace, but you're topless and it's 113 00:05:05,274 --> 00:05:08,274 Speaker 2: a jeweled necklace lash top and it's very cool. I mean, 114 00:05:08,313 --> 00:05:10,354 Speaker 2: I did think she was overacting a little bit, what 115 00:05:10,393 --> 00:05:11,113 Speaker 2: did you think? 116 00:05:11,274 --> 00:05:14,234 Speaker 1: But it's a very jam kind of show. 117 00:05:14,553 --> 00:05:16,594 Speaker 2: I look sure anyone who doesn't know what is the 118 00:05:16,594 --> 00:05:20,193 Speaker 2: Beauty about? Can you even explain the beauty? 119 00:05:20,274 --> 00:05:23,113 Speaker 1: Can you even explain the beauty? Oh my god, you're 120 00:05:23,113 --> 00:05:25,113 Speaker 1: gonna have to help me out here, because. 121 00:05:25,674 --> 00:05:28,433 Speaker 2: Okay, so The Beauty is like a sci fi body 122 00:05:28,553 --> 00:05:31,473 Speaker 2: horror TV series that everyone's pretty much just compared to 123 00:05:31,513 --> 00:05:32,553 Speaker 2: Demi Moore's The Substance. 124 00:05:32,594 --> 00:05:34,313 Speaker 1: That's what I was gonna say. It's like a TV 125 00:05:34,474 --> 00:05:36,034 Speaker 1: version of the Substance. 126 00:05:35,594 --> 00:05:39,513 Speaker 2: And like you get physical attractiveness through like alteration, and 127 00:05:39,553 --> 00:05:41,873 Speaker 2: it's quite celeb heavy, like it's like Evan Peters, like 128 00:05:41,953 --> 00:05:45,713 Speaker 2: Ashton Kutcher, bellahdid was there at one stage. Like it's 129 00:05:45,914 --> 00:05:47,474 Speaker 2: but it hasn't really cut through. It was what I 130 00:05:47,474 --> 00:05:49,073 Speaker 2: would say about The Beauty. Not a lot of people 131 00:05:49,073 --> 00:05:49,474 Speaker 2: are watching it. 132 00:05:49,513 --> 00:05:52,433 Speaker 1: I don't. It's also it's really gross. I tried, I 133 00:05:52,474 --> 00:05:54,753 Speaker 1: had to back out. It was making me feel sick. 134 00:05:55,034 --> 00:05:57,474 Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of it is very body horror heavy, yeah, 135 00:05:57,474 --> 00:05:59,394 Speaker 2: which I think Laura Brodneck loves that stuff. 136 00:05:59,474 --> 00:06:01,473 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not so much. No, not so much. I 137 00:06:01,474 --> 00:06:03,794 Speaker 1: love Ryan Murphy stuff, but you know, sometimes he takes 138 00:06:03,794 --> 00:06:05,794 Speaker 1: it too far and he always seems to drag even 139 00:06:05,834 --> 00:06:09,194 Speaker 1: Peter's down with him. But that's another story. Look I 140 00:06:09,714 --> 00:06:12,034 Speaker 1: did I saw the clip of Nikola as well. I 141 00:06:12,073 --> 00:06:14,954 Speaker 1: watched the whole clip because I was fascinated to see her. 142 00:06:15,513 --> 00:06:17,714 Speaker 2: It's important to note what I just mentioned about Death 143 00:06:17,753 --> 00:06:20,394 Speaker 2: becomes her. She is playing the younger version of Isabella 144 00:06:20,474 --> 00:06:22,514 Speaker 2: Rossolini in The Beauty, so it's a nod to the 145 00:06:22,633 --> 00:06:23,553 Speaker 2: character she's playing. 146 00:06:23,633 --> 00:06:26,354 Speaker 1: Yes, well, yes, carry on, but no, I enjoyed seeing 147 00:06:26,354 --> 00:06:30,354 Speaker 1: her pop up. She looked beautiful, she was encompassing the beauty. 148 00:06:30,914 --> 00:06:33,154 Speaker 1: I want to see her working more. Go Nikola. 149 00:06:33,433 --> 00:06:35,193 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd like to see her do a few more things. 150 00:06:35,193 --> 00:06:37,194 Speaker 2: I know that she's obviously a billionaire, so she has 151 00:06:37,234 --> 00:06:39,633 Speaker 2: funded a few projects of her own, but I'd like 152 00:06:39,674 --> 00:06:42,353 Speaker 2: to see her do a few more things. That's her passion, right, Yeah, 153 00:06:42,433 --> 00:06:49,074 Speaker 2: let's be passionate Brooklyn and Nicola together. So another Nichola 154 00:06:49,113 --> 00:06:51,154 Speaker 2: that we have to talk about today, arguably a much 155 00:06:51,154 --> 00:06:54,394 Speaker 2: more famous Nikola is Nicola Cochlin, who you and I 156 00:06:54,393 --> 00:06:56,993 Speaker 2: both love so much, so so much, she's done a 157 00:06:56,993 --> 00:06:59,674 Speaker 2: new interview with l UK as part of her promo 158 00:06:59,753 --> 00:07:03,113 Speaker 2: for The Magic Far Away Tree, which we're really excited about. Yes, 159 00:07:03,154 --> 00:07:05,834 Speaker 2: it is an adaptation of the fantasy series by Enid 160 00:07:05,834 --> 00:07:09,234 Speaker 2: Blytton and it looks incredible and so magical and just 161 00:07:09,313 --> 00:07:11,514 Speaker 2: absolutely stunning. We're counting down the days here at MoMA. 162 00:07:11,634 --> 00:07:13,354 Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't wait to watch this one, and was 163 00:07:13,354 --> 00:07:14,954 Speaker 1: so excited to see Nikola was in it. 164 00:07:15,194 --> 00:07:17,314 Speaker 2: Yes, I know, every time she's in something new, I 165 00:07:17,314 --> 00:07:19,514 Speaker 2: get very thrilled. We've obviously just seen her in Bridgeton 166 00:07:19,634 --> 00:07:22,514 Speaker 2: season four and like always comed down for the next thing, 167 00:07:22,554 --> 00:07:24,234 Speaker 2: So I'm glad she's got some other stuff lined up. 168 00:07:24,393 --> 00:07:26,474 Speaker 2: She's been working very hard on a lot of projects, 169 00:07:26,634 --> 00:07:28,994 Speaker 2: so obviously l UK wanted to talk to her about 170 00:07:28,994 --> 00:07:31,394 Speaker 2: those projects, but there was something else that they wanted 171 00:07:31,393 --> 00:07:33,033 Speaker 2: to talk to her about as well. 172 00:07:33,274 --> 00:07:36,754 Speaker 1: Yes, well they kind of snuck it in sneakily, and 173 00:07:37,474 --> 00:07:40,554 Speaker 1: she is often asked about her body yright and she 174 00:07:40,714 --> 00:07:44,714 Speaker 1: doesn't love talking about it, and she used this opportunity 175 00:07:44,754 --> 00:07:47,994 Speaker 1: to say that she doesn't want to be the poster 176 00:07:48,154 --> 00:07:51,033 Speaker 1: child for being a plus size actress or a body 177 00:07:51,074 --> 00:07:53,314 Speaker 1: positivity or anything like that. So I'm going to read 178 00:07:53,314 --> 00:07:56,514 Speaker 1: what she actually what she's actually said here, and it 179 00:07:56,594 --> 00:07:59,114 Speaker 1: is quite long, so bear with me. But but it's important, 180 00:07:59,114 --> 00:08:02,434 Speaker 1: it's important, and it's worth it. She says. The thing 181 00:08:02,674 --> 00:08:05,674 Speaker 1: I say sometimes it pisses people off, is I have 182 00:08:05,714 --> 00:08:08,554 Speaker 1: no interest in body positive. When I was a kid 183 00:08:08,594 --> 00:08:11,194 Speaker 1: growing up, I never thought about that. I didn't look 184 00:08:11,194 --> 00:08:13,674 Speaker 1: at actors and think about their bodies. So I actually 185 00:08:13,714 --> 00:08:16,154 Speaker 1: don't care. There's a lot of things I'm passionate about, 186 00:08:16,234 --> 00:08:18,554 Speaker 1: and it's not one of them. That's someone else's thing. 187 00:08:18,674 --> 00:08:23,154 Speaker 1: It's not mine. So she said that, but she went on, yes, 188 00:08:23,554 --> 00:08:25,394 Speaker 1: you know what was really bizarre was when I was 189 00:08:25,434 --> 00:08:28,674 Speaker 1: shooting that series, which is Bridgitton, I was exercising a 190 00:08:28,714 --> 00:08:30,673 Speaker 1: lot because I had to, so I lost a bunch 191 00:08:30,674 --> 00:08:33,034 Speaker 1: of weight. I was probably a size ten and one 192 00:08:33,074 --> 00:08:35,394 Speaker 1: of the coursets was a size eight, and then people 193 00:08:35,434 --> 00:08:37,794 Speaker 1: talked about how I was plus size, and I was like, 194 00:08:38,114 --> 00:08:40,634 Speaker 1: how fucked are we that I'm the biggest woman that 195 00:08:40,674 --> 00:08:43,034 Speaker 1: you want to see on screen. I remember this really 196 00:08:43,114 --> 00:08:45,914 Speaker 1: drunk girl once talking to me in a bathroom being like, 197 00:08:46,274 --> 00:08:48,914 Speaker 1: I loved Bridgeton because of your body, and then started 198 00:08:48,914 --> 00:08:51,154 Speaker 1: talking about my body, and I was like, I want 199 00:08:51,194 --> 00:08:53,834 Speaker 1: to die. I hate this so much. It's really hard 200 00:08:53,874 --> 00:08:55,794 Speaker 1: when you work on something for months and months of 201 00:08:55,834 --> 00:08:58,274 Speaker 1: your life and you don't see your family and you 202 00:08:58,354 --> 00:09:00,594 Speaker 1: really dedicate yourself and then it comes down to what 203 00:09:00,634 --> 00:09:02,354 Speaker 1: you look like. It's so fucking boring. 204 00:09:02,834 --> 00:09:06,354 Speaker 2: It's such a strong quote. Like it's a lot of 205 00:09:06,434 --> 00:09:09,114 Speaker 2: quotes because it's a few pars there, but it is 206 00:09:09,154 --> 00:09:11,594 Speaker 2: such a strong statement to be making, and like quite 207 00:09:11,594 --> 00:09:14,194 Speaker 2: a few good points within there as well. Yeah, to 208 00:09:14,234 --> 00:09:15,074 Speaker 2: come out from her. 209 00:09:15,034 --> 00:09:19,594 Speaker 1: Yeah, amazing in there, and like she's so right. I 210 00:09:19,674 --> 00:09:21,994 Speaker 1: wonder if this poor girl that did come up to 211 00:09:22,074 --> 00:09:25,554 Speaker 1: her all earnestly and say that, who probably felt like 212 00:09:25,914 --> 00:09:28,754 Speaker 1: it was nice to see potentially a body that resembled 213 00:09:28,754 --> 00:09:30,434 Speaker 1: her own on screen and whatever it made her feel 214 00:09:30,474 --> 00:09:32,914 Speaker 1: really good. I wonder if she's mortified reading this, thinking, 215 00:09:32,954 --> 00:09:35,314 Speaker 1: oh no, I've said this thing to this celebrity who 216 00:09:35,314 --> 00:09:39,154 Speaker 1: I admire and it made her want to die. I 217 00:09:39,194 --> 00:09:41,874 Speaker 1: hate this so much. So do feel for that guy? 218 00:09:41,914 --> 00:09:43,194 Speaker 2: I want to die is so real? 219 00:09:43,274 --> 00:09:45,994 Speaker 1: Nice? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I mean it is mortifying. And 220 00:09:46,034 --> 00:09:49,354 Speaker 1: I think, like, no matter how much we hear and 221 00:09:49,474 --> 00:09:52,394 Speaker 1: see comments from people going, let's just not talk about 222 00:09:52,554 --> 00:09:57,473 Speaker 1: people's bodies like who cares? It still tends to dominate conversation, 223 00:09:58,194 --> 00:10:01,074 Speaker 1: and especially for someone who is not like wafer thin 224 00:10:01,154 --> 00:10:01,914 Speaker 1: on television. 225 00:10:02,234 --> 00:10:04,234 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that's the thing that we see 226 00:10:04,274 --> 00:10:06,754 Speaker 2: all the time. Also across I guess like I see 227 00:10:06,794 --> 00:10:09,074 Speaker 2: a lot I'm in social media spaces, but like across 228 00:10:09,114 --> 00:10:12,074 Speaker 2: TikTok as well, is like if someone is not a 229 00:10:12,434 --> 00:10:15,234 Speaker 2: very very small person, and I'm not going to say sizes, 230 00:10:15,514 --> 00:10:17,394 Speaker 2: but if someone is not very small, often you will 231 00:10:17,434 --> 00:10:20,594 Speaker 2: see their comments section being like Greek gods would have 232 00:10:20,674 --> 00:10:24,434 Speaker 2: loved you, like oh you finally a real body type 233 00:10:24,514 --> 00:10:26,514 Speaker 2: on my page, Like people feel the need to point out. 234 00:10:26,554 --> 00:10:28,434 Speaker 2: And it's in this way again, where with Nikola it 235 00:10:28,474 --> 00:10:31,034 Speaker 2: is quite often framed as though it is a compliment 236 00:10:31,114 --> 00:10:33,554 Speaker 2: to her exactly, it is a positive thing to her, 237 00:10:34,114 --> 00:10:35,994 Speaker 2: like oh but you know, it's nice to see a 238 00:10:36,074 --> 00:10:38,594 Speaker 2: real body on screen. And it's like, can we just 239 00:10:38,834 --> 00:10:41,234 Speaker 2: not care about what her body looks like? And they're 240 00:10:41,474 --> 00:10:43,034 Speaker 2: dead about the performance. 241 00:10:42,634 --> 00:10:46,714 Speaker 1: Exactly, and which she always gives such a damn great performance. 242 00:10:47,434 --> 00:10:50,354 Speaker 1: Like I love hearing her say I'm not the poster 243 00:10:50,434 --> 00:10:53,594 Speaker 1: child of body positivity. That is not my cause. Other peoples, 244 00:10:53,634 --> 00:10:55,834 Speaker 1: that's fine. Let them do it if that's what they 245 00:10:55,834 --> 00:10:58,674 Speaker 1: want to do. Nichola just wants to be an actor, Yeah, 246 00:10:58,674 --> 00:11:00,754 Speaker 1: like she doesn't want to be out there talking about this. 247 00:11:01,274 --> 00:11:03,674 Speaker 1: I love that because I think that so often, and 248 00:11:03,714 --> 00:11:08,034 Speaker 1: particularly in the last five years of work in media, 249 00:11:08,874 --> 00:11:11,114 Speaker 1: you are asked to go and get those lines out 250 00:11:11,154 --> 00:11:15,514 Speaker 1: of people and it's like, oh, okay, any kind of diversity, great, 251 00:11:15,634 --> 00:11:16,354 Speaker 1: make that the hook. 252 00:11:16,674 --> 00:11:19,474 Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, and then that's the only thing they get 253 00:11:19,474 --> 00:11:21,634 Speaker 2: asked about. As well. On a press cycle day that 254 00:11:21,714 --> 00:11:25,154 Speaker 2: might have like fifty different interviews or going through radio 255 00:11:25,194 --> 00:11:27,594 Speaker 2: stations and then TV and then journalists for magazines and 256 00:11:27,634 --> 00:11:30,274 Speaker 2: print and like radio or whatever it may be, people 257 00:11:30,314 --> 00:11:32,194 Speaker 2: are getting asked the same question over and over, and 258 00:11:32,274 --> 00:11:35,953 Speaker 2: it is about their diversity quote unquote whatever that may 259 00:11:35,954 --> 00:11:38,594 Speaker 2: be for that person, and then never really getting to 260 00:11:38,634 --> 00:11:41,674 Speaker 2: talk about the craft itself. They're often just being asked 261 00:11:41,674 --> 00:11:45,114 Speaker 2: to talk about representation. And while that is a great 262 00:11:45,194 --> 00:11:47,794 Speaker 2: thing to discuss if that's what the person wants to discuss, 263 00:11:47,834 --> 00:11:49,354 Speaker 2: if it's the only thing they get to talk about 264 00:11:49,354 --> 00:11:51,434 Speaker 2: in relation to the role that they're playing, can you 265 00:11:51,514 --> 00:11:53,794 Speaker 2: imagine how tiring that would get and how just over 266 00:11:53,914 --> 00:11:55,594 Speaker 2: you would feel if you ever got to answer the 267 00:11:55,594 --> 00:11:59,714 Speaker 2: same questions that someone who didn't have your supposed otherness, 268 00:11:59,954 --> 00:12:02,514 Speaker 2: like the other leads of Bridgitton are not getting asked 269 00:12:02,514 --> 00:12:05,114 Speaker 2: about their bodies specifically in this way when they're getting 270 00:12:05,114 --> 00:12:06,914 Speaker 2: asked about sex scenes. There's still a lot of very 271 00:12:07,514 --> 00:12:09,674 Speaker 2: questions about the sex scenes, but it's not about how 272 00:12:09,714 --> 00:12:11,994 Speaker 2: did you feel about your naked body being on screen 273 00:12:11,994 --> 00:12:13,714 Speaker 2: and what does it mean to women across the world, 274 00:12:13,754 --> 00:12:14,554 Speaker 2: And then also. 275 00:12:14,314 --> 00:12:15,994 Speaker 1: The inference that it's somehow brave. 276 00:12:15,914 --> 00:12:18,874 Speaker 2: Exactly, which I did really love because Nikola did address 277 00:12:18,914 --> 00:12:21,914 Speaker 2: that and bridgeton season three. Press went for a long 278 00:12:22,114 --> 00:12:23,954 Speaker 2: long time. You and I were there at the start 279 00:12:23,954 --> 00:12:25,874 Speaker 2: of it, which is when they came to Australia and 280 00:12:25,914 --> 00:12:27,714 Speaker 2: they were in Barrel and we both got to speak 281 00:12:27,754 --> 00:12:30,594 Speaker 2: with her. But she then went on to do a 282 00:12:30,594 --> 00:12:33,154 Speaker 2: press tour that went all around the world in the 283 00:12:33,154 --> 00:12:34,834 Speaker 2: middle of the year. She's already been on the press 284 00:12:34,874 --> 00:12:37,034 Speaker 2: tour for a few months. We've gotten part two. She's 285 00:12:37,034 --> 00:12:39,074 Speaker 2: probably a bit sick of it. She was on stage 286 00:12:39,114 --> 00:12:42,394 Speaker 2: with Luke Newton and she was just asked about, you know, 287 00:12:42,434 --> 00:12:44,593 Speaker 2: being in the series, and this is what she said, 288 00:12:44,874 --> 00:12:46,674 Speaker 2: you know, it is hard because I think women with 289 00:12:46,754 --> 00:12:49,954 Speaker 2: my body type, and she paused, and Luke looked at her, 290 00:12:50,154 --> 00:12:53,114 Speaker 2: and she said women with perfect breasts, and then the 291 00:12:53,194 --> 00:12:56,754 Speaker 2: whole crowd just like erupted in laughter, and she kind 292 00:12:56,754 --> 00:12:58,274 Speaker 2: of just held it and was like nodding as if 293 00:12:58,274 --> 00:13:01,154 Speaker 2: she was saying something really powerful, and she was like, 294 00:13:01,354 --> 00:13:03,474 Speaker 2: we don't get to see ourselves on screen. And this 295 00:13:03,634 --> 00:13:05,754 Speaker 2: was her like tongue in cheek response to the fact 296 00:13:05,754 --> 00:13:08,234 Speaker 2: that she had been asked for months, over and over 297 00:13:08,314 --> 00:13:11,754 Speaker 2: again about how brave she was and how kind it 298 00:13:11,794 --> 00:13:13,634 Speaker 2: was of her to offer representation on screen. 299 00:13:13,754 --> 00:13:16,034 Speaker 1: Fathers, Yeah, you put on her for like a minut's 300 00:13:16,074 --> 00:13:18,514 Speaker 1: so irish of her to make a funny joke about 301 00:13:18,514 --> 00:13:20,594 Speaker 1: it and dada and to twist it that way, but 302 00:13:20,754 --> 00:13:23,154 Speaker 1: like God, she shouldn't have had to. And I remember 303 00:13:23,194 --> 00:13:25,434 Speaker 1: seeing that as well and just thinking, like, what a 304 00:13:25,474 --> 00:13:29,154 Speaker 1: great response, what a way to do it. I'm interested 305 00:13:29,154 --> 00:13:31,994 Speaker 1: to know, and like, you might not feel comfortable ask 306 00:13:32,354 --> 00:13:35,674 Speaker 1: answering this, but when you were sent to interview her, 307 00:13:36,794 --> 00:13:41,354 Speaker 1: was there the request from back within the editorial confines 308 00:13:41,354 --> 00:13:43,874 Speaker 1: of where you were representing to get a body line 309 00:13:43,874 --> 00:13:44,354 Speaker 1: out of her. 310 00:13:45,274 --> 00:13:47,994 Speaker 2: There wasn't to get a line in particular, but it 311 00:13:48,234 --> 00:13:51,114 Speaker 2: was what everyone was like, you should ask this, like 312 00:13:51,474 --> 00:13:53,874 Speaker 2: as a general thing. Everyone on the team was like, oh, 313 00:13:53,914 --> 00:13:56,154 Speaker 2: you should ask her about this. I did think about it, 314 00:13:56,154 --> 00:13:57,554 Speaker 2: and I was like, I don't want to ask her 315 00:13:57,594 --> 00:13:59,914 Speaker 2: that because it's to me not interesting enough to warrant 316 00:13:59,914 --> 00:14:02,594 Speaker 2: a line or really anything. I want to ask her 317 00:14:02,594 --> 00:14:04,154 Speaker 2: about all of these other amazing things to do with 318 00:14:04,154 --> 00:14:05,994 Speaker 2: her performance. And you only get a few minutes, as 319 00:14:06,034 --> 00:14:08,434 Speaker 2: you very well know, And I didn't want to spend 320 00:14:08,514 --> 00:14:11,594 Speaker 2: it talking about someone's body. But I also understood why 321 00:14:11,594 --> 00:14:13,514 Speaker 2: people wanted me to, but I didn't want. 322 00:14:13,394 --> 00:14:13,754 Speaker 1: To do it. 323 00:14:13,874 --> 00:14:15,954 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I didn't do it. Yeah. Did you also 324 00:14:15,954 --> 00:14:17,074 Speaker 2: feel like there was pressure to ask that? 325 00:14:17,194 --> 00:14:19,834 Speaker 1: Yeah, And there's always pressure to ask that and to 326 00:14:19,874 --> 00:14:23,394 Speaker 1: get a line. And I do think that, and like, wow, 327 00:14:23,514 --> 00:14:26,474 Speaker 1: Elle did get a line this with this cover story, 328 00:14:26,514 --> 00:14:28,754 Speaker 1: they got more than a line. I'm sure that they 329 00:14:28,754 --> 00:14:30,914 Speaker 1: were asked to chase after it and to get something 330 00:14:30,954 --> 00:14:33,194 Speaker 1: and whether it was even like I don't want to 331 00:14:33,234 --> 00:14:35,074 Speaker 1: say that. I think that they've gone and done something 332 00:14:35,114 --> 00:14:38,434 Speaker 1: like done the dirty on her, because what they've published 333 00:14:38,914 --> 00:14:41,314 Speaker 1: sounds like they understood. 334 00:14:40,914 --> 00:14:41,834 Speaker 2: What she was going for. 335 00:14:41,954 --> 00:14:45,314 Speaker 1: Yes, Yeah, and obviously saw that whole press to play 336 00:14:45,354 --> 00:14:48,314 Speaker 1: out in the perfect breast line and everything. So you know, 337 00:14:48,634 --> 00:14:50,434 Speaker 1: I'm sure that they went in knowing that and they 338 00:14:50,434 --> 00:14:52,714 Speaker 1: wanted to get the explainer on the fact that she 339 00:14:52,874 --> 00:14:54,874 Speaker 1: doesn't want to do this and kind of draw a 340 00:14:54,914 --> 00:14:58,714 Speaker 1: line in the sand, and also potentially Nicholas decided like, 341 00:14:58,794 --> 00:15:00,714 Speaker 1: oh my god, I've so had enough of talking about this, 342 00:15:00,954 --> 00:15:02,754 Speaker 1: I'm going to use this cover story and to draw 343 00:15:02,794 --> 00:15:04,954 Speaker 1: a line in the sand and say like, I'm not 344 00:15:05,114 --> 00:15:06,594 Speaker 1: your gal. Yes. Yeah. 345 00:15:07,114 --> 00:15:08,754 Speaker 2: Really interesting, And one of the lines that I think 346 00:15:08,874 --> 00:15:10,754 Speaker 2: is really interesting from it is the fact that she 347 00:15:10,834 --> 00:15:14,274 Speaker 2: said she does mention her size. Because this comes up 348 00:15:14,314 --> 00:15:16,394 Speaker 2: so much like she's obviously saying I don't really want 349 00:15:16,434 --> 00:15:18,594 Speaker 2: to talk about like body positivity. She wants to just 350 00:15:18,714 --> 00:15:20,754 Speaker 2: be a neutral thing that she doesn't have to talk about, 351 00:15:20,914 --> 00:15:23,234 Speaker 2: but she does address kind of Another part of it, 352 00:15:23,274 --> 00:15:25,354 Speaker 2: which we often see as well, is that she's saying 353 00:15:25,514 --> 00:15:27,634 Speaker 2: she'd actually lost weight. She was a size ten. One 354 00:15:27,674 --> 00:15:29,994 Speaker 2: of the courses she wore was a size eight, and 355 00:15:30,034 --> 00:15:32,994 Speaker 2: people have really run with that quote to be like, oh, 356 00:15:33,034 --> 00:15:35,794 Speaker 2: but see she was small and you called her fat, 357 00:15:35,874 --> 00:15:38,034 Speaker 2: and it's like, that's actually not the point she's making. 358 00:15:38,634 --> 00:15:40,674 Speaker 2: But even just that line being in there in her 359 00:15:40,714 --> 00:15:42,994 Speaker 2: trying to explain her into the sense of being like, 360 00:15:43,834 --> 00:15:46,474 Speaker 2: why are you making me this catch hold person for 361 00:15:46,514 --> 00:15:49,114 Speaker 2: body positivity. She's included that in the context of a 362 00:15:49,194 --> 00:15:51,274 Speaker 2: much bigger thing, and people keep running with that quote 363 00:15:51,314 --> 00:15:53,754 Speaker 2: and that line and putting it on socials today, and 364 00:15:53,794 --> 00:15:55,434 Speaker 2: that's really interesting to me because I'm like, this is 365 00:15:55,434 --> 00:15:57,874 Speaker 2: actually you're going against what she was pointing out. 366 00:15:58,314 --> 00:16:01,034 Speaker 1: I just feel like, if you've got the opportunity to 367 00:16:01,074 --> 00:16:03,434 Speaker 1: interview Nikola, and if we ever get the opportunity again, 368 00:16:03,594 --> 00:16:05,594 Speaker 1: so many other things I'd rather There are so many 369 00:16:05,674 --> 00:16:08,514 Speaker 1: other things I would rather ask her, And I mean, 370 00:16:08,554 --> 00:16:10,634 Speaker 1: she's got good stories, she will sit down and have 371 00:16:10,674 --> 00:16:11,594 Speaker 1: a great chat with you. 372 00:16:11,674 --> 00:16:14,474 Speaker 2: So yeah, absolutely. It does remind me a bit of 373 00:16:14,474 --> 00:16:16,914 Speaker 2: what Kate Winslet has spoken a bit about with Titanic 374 00:16:17,074 --> 00:16:19,634 Speaker 2: when she was coming up and she was like twenty 375 00:16:19,634 --> 00:16:22,554 Speaker 2: two around that time, and she said that journalists had 376 00:16:23,274 --> 00:16:25,994 Speaker 2: told her she was overweight during press for that film, 377 00:16:26,354 --> 00:16:28,714 Speaker 2: and that she was held up quite often as like 378 00:16:28,754 --> 00:16:33,514 Speaker 2: this like quote unquote normal healthy body amidst a lot 379 00:16:33,554 --> 00:16:36,114 Speaker 2: of other actresses around that time in the late nineties 380 00:16:36,114 --> 00:16:40,194 Speaker 2: and early two thousands, And she has actually said recently 381 00:16:40,274 --> 00:16:42,674 Speaker 2: she was like I told a journalists. She didn't say, 382 00:16:42,834 --> 00:16:44,994 Speaker 2: but she told someone that she hopes the way that 383 00:16:44,994 --> 00:16:46,394 Speaker 2: they spoke to her. She was like, I hope it 384 00:16:46,434 --> 00:16:46,874 Speaker 2: haunts you. 385 00:16:47,714 --> 00:16:47,874 Speaker 1: Oh. 386 00:16:48,074 --> 00:16:50,594 Speaker 2: I love that fantastic line from Kate Winslet, but it 387 00:16:50,634 --> 00:16:53,154 Speaker 2: is very similar in this way where people really thrust 388 00:16:53,474 --> 00:16:56,314 Speaker 2: body positivity and wanting to talk about your body onto 389 00:16:56,354 --> 00:17:01,794 Speaker 2: any actress who doesn't necessarily fit this perfect tiny mole 390 00:17:01,874 --> 00:17:04,114 Speaker 2: that they've decided an actress should look like. And maybe 391 00:17:04,114 --> 00:17:06,674 Speaker 2: they don't all want to be body positivity activists. As 392 00:17:06,754 --> 00:17:09,234 Speaker 2: Nikola said, it might be someone's thing, but it doesn't 393 00:17:09,234 --> 00:17:11,914 Speaker 2: have to be yours just because you look a certain way. 394 00:17:12,034 --> 00:17:13,794 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, agreed. 395 00:17:15,794 --> 00:17:18,954 Speaker 2: So unlike Beauty, there is another Ryan Murphy TV show 396 00:17:18,954 --> 00:17:20,793 Speaker 2: that's airing at the moment that I would say and 397 00:17:20,954 --> 00:17:23,434 Speaker 2: argue has been a little bit more successful. 398 00:17:23,514 --> 00:17:25,514 Speaker 1: Which is really interesting because everyone thought it was gonna 399 00:17:25,554 --> 00:17:29,914 Speaker 1: absolutely tank and be terrible. Love story has turned out 400 00:17:30,154 --> 00:17:32,074 Speaker 1: an absolute success story for Ryan. 401 00:17:33,394 --> 00:17:36,593 Speaker 2: That was nice. So if anyone doesn't know, it is 402 00:17:36,674 --> 00:17:39,954 Speaker 2: the story of JFK. Junior and Carolyn Bessett Kennedy and 403 00:17:39,994 --> 00:17:42,394 Speaker 2: how they met, how they fell in love, how they 404 00:17:42,394 --> 00:17:45,114 Speaker 2: got married, and obviously it will eventually lead to the 405 00:17:45,154 --> 00:17:46,954 Speaker 2: tragic circumstances of their death. 406 00:17:47,154 --> 00:17:47,394 Speaker 1: Yes. 407 00:17:47,674 --> 00:17:49,553 Speaker 2: So when the show was announced and sort of the 408 00:17:49,554 --> 00:17:52,154 Speaker 2: first look pictures came out and we saw the cast, 409 00:17:52,314 --> 00:17:54,994 Speaker 2: which was Sarah Pigeon as Carolyn Besset Kennedy and she 410 00:17:55,034 --> 00:17:57,354 Speaker 2: had a different color blonde hair. People said she was 411 00:17:57,354 --> 00:18:00,394 Speaker 2: wearing like H and M clothes. People were not happy 412 00:18:00,434 --> 00:18:02,474 Speaker 2: with the first look and it was Paul Anthony Kelly 413 00:18:02,514 --> 00:18:05,594 Speaker 2: as JFK Jr. And people didn't love it, did they? 414 00:18:05,794 --> 00:18:07,994 Speaker 1: No? No, I was horror fight when I saw it 415 00:18:08,034 --> 00:18:10,313 Speaker 1: and was like agreed, Like I was like, what is 416 00:18:10,354 --> 00:18:13,914 Speaker 1: this high street terrible outfits that they've put on these people, 417 00:18:14,514 --> 00:18:18,194 Speaker 1: and especially Carolyn who was so famous for her style. 418 00:18:18,874 --> 00:18:19,594 Speaker 2: But they turned it. 419 00:18:19,514 --> 00:18:22,314 Speaker 1: Around, totally turned it around. I feel like I feel 420 00:18:22,314 --> 00:18:24,434 Speaker 1: like we're being trolled now with those first shots. 421 00:18:24,434 --> 00:18:26,074 Speaker 2: It just feel a little bit like it was just 422 00:18:26,074 --> 00:18:26,594 Speaker 2: just a joke. 423 00:18:26,794 --> 00:18:28,754 Speaker 1: Yeah, and just to get a whole lot of high. 424 00:18:28,794 --> 00:18:31,114 Speaker 2: Yes, because then they've actually nailed it in terms of 425 00:18:31,154 --> 00:18:34,034 Speaker 2: the casting and the aesthetic of like the fashion and 426 00:18:34,194 --> 00:18:36,154 Speaker 2: it looking quite the same. Like I've seen so many 427 00:18:36,154 --> 00:18:38,434 Speaker 2: side by side pictures of the outfits looking the exact 428 00:18:38,474 --> 00:18:41,754 Speaker 2: same and what they've also done with that is higher 429 00:18:42,074 --> 00:18:45,194 Speaker 2: actors who look very much like the real life counterparts 430 00:18:45,354 --> 00:18:47,314 Speaker 2: for everyone else she was involved in their. 431 00:18:47,234 --> 00:18:50,714 Speaker 1: Lives, yes, and so look spoiler alert if you don't 432 00:18:50,714 --> 00:18:53,514 Speaker 1: know the story of JFK and Carolyn Bissett. But they 433 00:18:53,554 --> 00:18:57,194 Speaker 1: did die, yes, so they are not here anymore to 434 00:18:57,234 --> 00:19:00,194 Speaker 1: see this portrayal of them and make comment on it. 435 00:19:00,514 --> 00:19:04,754 Speaker 2: No, but but their family and other people who were 436 00:19:04,834 --> 00:19:07,914 Speaker 2: in real life involved, oh very much and around and 437 00:19:07,954 --> 00:19:10,234 Speaker 2: it is one of those weird things, kind of like 438 00:19:10,554 --> 00:19:13,434 Speaker 2: the Pamela Anderson and Tommy Lee series which came out 439 00:19:13,434 --> 00:19:16,833 Speaker 2: with Subashianstan and Lily James. There's that weird thing of 440 00:19:16,954 --> 00:19:20,834 Speaker 2: making a biography about someone or a biopic about someone 441 00:19:21,274 --> 00:19:23,434 Speaker 2: when they're still alive or when they're still here to 442 00:19:23,514 --> 00:19:26,154 Speaker 2: vouch for themselves. And so what that has done is 443 00:19:26,194 --> 00:19:28,714 Speaker 2: put a lot of real life people into the spotlight again, 444 00:19:28,754 --> 00:19:31,234 Speaker 2: and some of them aren't loving their portrayal. In particular 445 00:19:31,394 --> 00:19:33,234 Speaker 2: Daryl Hannah has spoken. 446 00:19:32,914 --> 00:19:35,793 Speaker 1: Out she has and she's chosen I mean, such a 447 00:19:35,794 --> 00:19:38,674 Speaker 1: great way to do it, an essay penned by herself 448 00:19:38,874 --> 00:19:40,994 Speaker 1: for none other than The New York Times. 449 00:19:40,514 --> 00:19:44,034 Speaker 2: Perfect I am loving. Can I just say the celebrities 450 00:19:44,154 --> 00:19:47,874 Speaker 2: doing essays or let's just do it. 451 00:19:47,954 --> 00:19:50,314 Speaker 1: Yeah, I absolutely love it, although it'll put us out 452 00:19:50,314 --> 00:19:51,674 Speaker 1: of a job if they keep doing it. 453 00:19:51,834 --> 00:19:54,194 Speaker 2: I don't mind if Daryl Hannah replaces me, though, Can 454 00:19:54,234 --> 00:19:55,754 Speaker 2: I just say better her than Ai? 455 00:19:56,274 --> 00:19:57,033 Speaker 1: That is true? 456 00:19:57,514 --> 00:19:58,954 Speaker 2: That is true. Look. 457 00:19:59,034 --> 00:20:02,754 Speaker 1: She wrote further New York Times this piece about how 458 00:20:03,234 --> 00:20:05,674 Speaker 1: upset she is with this portrayal of her and also 459 00:20:05,714 --> 00:20:11,034 Speaker 1: wanting to set the records. It is a really strong pieces. 460 00:20:11,074 --> 00:20:13,954 Speaker 1: She's not overly wordy, and what I love is that 461 00:20:13,994 --> 00:20:16,513 Speaker 1: she starts it off to start the best with the 462 00:20:16,554 --> 00:20:20,313 Speaker 1: line Jacqueline Nassas once gave me some wise advice. She 463 00:20:20,394 --> 00:20:23,954 Speaker 1: told me that while tabloids, magazines and newspapers often sold 464 00:20:24,034 --> 00:20:27,474 Speaker 1: ridiculous lies, there were nothing more than birdcage liner by 465 00:20:27,514 --> 00:20:29,674 Speaker 1: the next day. And at the time I found great 466 00:20:29,674 --> 00:20:32,914 Speaker 1: comfort and consolation in those words, but today they are 467 00:20:32,954 --> 00:20:37,674 Speaker 1: no longer hold true now. Firstly, to say, straight up, 468 00:20:38,514 --> 00:20:41,834 Speaker 1: Jacqueline Nasus gave me great advice. I didn't really need 469 00:20:41,874 --> 00:20:44,554 Speaker 1: to even read beyond that. She nailed it right from 470 00:20:44,554 --> 00:20:47,354 Speaker 1: the getl Yeah, what a way to start, What a 471 00:20:47,394 --> 00:20:49,434 Speaker 1: way to start. And she goes on to say obviously 472 00:20:49,474 --> 00:20:52,314 Speaker 1: that like now, that we're in the digital age. Things 473 00:20:52,394 --> 00:20:55,474 Speaker 1: stories don't disappear. Yesterday's news just doesn't go out with 474 00:20:55,474 --> 00:20:58,033 Speaker 1: the trash in the morning. It lives online forever, and 475 00:20:58,074 --> 00:21:01,033 Speaker 1: so if you tell a lie, it can live online forever. 476 00:21:01,474 --> 00:21:04,754 Speaker 1: And she's essentially saying that while the news, yes, can 477 00:21:04,794 --> 00:21:07,154 Speaker 1: be fake or can be a lie, so can a 478 00:21:07,194 --> 00:21:11,033 Speaker 1: harmful depiction of what your real life looked like. Absolutely, 479 00:21:11,074 --> 00:21:12,754 Speaker 1: And there would be a lot of viewers out there, 480 00:21:12,874 --> 00:21:16,994 Speaker 1: younger viewers where this is their first time encountering Daryl 481 00:21:16,994 --> 00:21:19,434 Speaker 1: Hannah and it's through a bi pick played by an 482 00:21:19,474 --> 00:21:24,553 Speaker 1: actor not consulted with her what that life was like. 483 00:21:25,914 --> 00:21:30,674 Speaker 1: And there's been some some choices choices made that she 484 00:21:31,034 --> 00:21:33,714 Speaker 1: has objected to and really wants to set the record 485 00:21:33,794 --> 00:21:37,994 Speaker 1: straight on, namely partying. On the show, it shows Daryl 486 00:21:37,994 --> 00:21:42,073 Speaker 1: Hannah as having these like cocaine fueled parties and partaking herself, 487 00:21:42,194 --> 00:21:45,754 Speaker 1: which in her essays she says absolutely did not happen. 488 00:21:45,834 --> 00:21:49,714 Speaker 1: And she never ever has been someone who's partaken in drugs. 489 00:21:49,994 --> 00:21:52,033 Speaker 1: So that's definitely offended her and been something that she 490 00:21:52,074 --> 00:21:53,434 Speaker 1: wants to set the record straight on. 491 00:21:53,674 --> 00:21:56,273 Speaker 2: Yeah, and she kind of throughout I found it really 492 00:21:56,314 --> 00:21:58,273 Speaker 2: interest like she refers to Daryl Hannah in like the 493 00:21:58,274 --> 00:22:00,634 Speaker 2: third person, because she's essentially being like, this isn't me. 494 00:22:00,714 --> 00:22:02,513 Speaker 2: This is a character you made, and this is not 495 00:22:02,514 --> 00:22:04,074 Speaker 2: the real me. So she refers all the way through 496 00:22:04,114 --> 00:22:07,554 Speaker 2: as the Daryl Hannah character, or Daryl do this, which 497 00:22:07,634 --> 00:22:08,554 Speaker 2: is really interesting. 498 00:22:08,754 --> 00:22:10,794 Speaker 1: It is such an interesting way to do it. It's 499 00:22:10,954 --> 00:22:13,554 Speaker 1: like it's so funny as well, because I think that 500 00:22:13,594 --> 00:22:16,994 Speaker 1: for a lot of the people who were part of 501 00:22:17,434 --> 00:22:22,274 Speaker 1: John and Carolyn's life, they're so protective of them as well. Yeah, 502 00:22:22,714 --> 00:22:25,234 Speaker 1: and for good reason. They were beloved by their friends 503 00:22:25,274 --> 00:22:28,154 Speaker 1: and family, and they died in such tragic circumstances. 504 00:22:28,354 --> 00:22:31,754 Speaker 2: And also their relationship was just picked apart by media 505 00:22:31,794 --> 00:22:34,074 Speaker 2: and press from the moment it began to the moment 506 00:22:34,114 --> 00:22:36,154 Speaker 2: that their lives ended, and now still beyond. 507 00:22:36,274 --> 00:22:39,074 Speaker 1: Yeah, and still beyond. It's still happening in the same 508 00:22:39,114 --> 00:22:42,954 Speaker 1: way that you know, not to the full extent that 509 00:22:43,074 --> 00:22:46,074 Speaker 1: happened to Diana, but not far off at either. 510 00:22:46,274 --> 00:22:48,914 Speaker 2: Yeah. I would say, like I obviously wasn't invested as 511 00:22:48,914 --> 00:22:51,033 Speaker 2: a child watching what was going on between them, but 512 00:22:51,114 --> 00:22:52,834 Speaker 2: as I grew up and knew more about them, I 513 00:22:52,834 --> 00:22:56,674 Speaker 2: would say the comparison to Diana very it's pretty fair, Yeah, 514 00:22:56,714 --> 00:22:59,234 Speaker 2: and I thought it was interesting. She's kind of explained that, like, 515 00:22:59,434 --> 00:23:02,514 Speaker 2: and she's called it like a tragedy exploiting television series, 516 00:23:02,794 --> 00:23:05,074 Speaker 2: And she says, in making it about them and calling 517 00:23:05,154 --> 00:23:07,354 Speaker 2: it love story and turning it into like an big 518 00:23:07,434 --> 00:23:09,554 Speaker 2: romance of John and Carolyn and how much we're rooting 519 00:23:09,554 --> 00:23:12,554 Speaker 2: for them, she's like the Daryl Hannah character occupies a 520 00:23:12,594 --> 00:23:15,793 Speaker 2: space where she's an adversary and you don't want to 521 00:23:15,914 --> 00:23:19,754 Speaker 2: root for her because she's irritating, self absorbed, whiny and inappropriate. 522 00:23:20,554 --> 00:23:24,114 Speaker 2: And she says they've intentionally done this because storytelling requires tension, 523 00:23:24,394 --> 00:23:26,714 Speaker 2: and she says it requires an obstacle. But she says, 524 00:23:26,834 --> 00:23:29,033 Speaker 2: a real living person is not a narrative device, and 525 00:23:29,074 --> 00:23:30,994 Speaker 2: she feels like they've just turned her into a narrative 526 00:23:31,034 --> 00:23:34,034 Speaker 2: device that was like crazy and wild and ruinous. 527 00:23:34,434 --> 00:23:38,034 Speaker 1: And as you pointed out earlier, this is exactly how 528 00:23:38,074 --> 00:23:42,634 Speaker 1: Pamela Anderson felt about the series that was about her, Yeah, 529 00:23:42,674 --> 00:23:43,914 Speaker 1: that Lily James played. 530 00:23:43,954 --> 00:23:45,874 Speaker 2: And she said Lily James wrote her a letter and 531 00:23:45,874 --> 00:23:48,714 Speaker 2: she was like, I never read that, which is fair enough. 532 00:23:48,794 --> 00:23:52,434 Speaker 1: I have often wondered if Lily James is okay after all, 533 00:23:52,474 --> 00:23:56,114 Speaker 1: of this because I thought she did such a great job. Yeah, 534 00:23:56,154 --> 00:23:58,394 Speaker 1: and I really did enjoy that series, which I then 535 00:23:58,434 --> 00:24:02,154 Speaker 1: felt really guilty for watching when I found out how 536 00:24:02,194 --> 00:24:03,594 Speaker 1: distress Pammy was about it. 537 00:24:03,914 --> 00:24:07,194 Speaker 2: Yeah, well she said like it was really hurtful the 538 00:24:07,274 --> 00:24:09,474 Speaker 2: first time, and she was like, it's one of those 539 00:24:09,474 --> 00:24:11,794 Speaker 2: things where you're going, really, people are still capitalizing off 540 00:24:11,834 --> 00:24:13,954 Speaker 2: of that, And in particular, Pam was talking about the 541 00:24:13,994 --> 00:24:16,074 Speaker 2: fact that the sex tape with her and Tommy Lee 542 00:24:16,154 --> 00:24:17,554 Speaker 2: was such a big part of the TV show, and 543 00:24:17,594 --> 00:24:19,394 Speaker 2: she's like, that was a real thing that happened to me. Yeah, 544 00:24:19,434 --> 00:24:21,594 Speaker 2: it was very painful. Why are you making money off 545 00:24:21,634 --> 00:24:23,714 Speaker 2: of this thing that happened to me. I'm still alive, 546 00:24:23,754 --> 00:24:25,553 Speaker 2: I'm still here. Why do you get to profit of 547 00:24:25,554 --> 00:24:26,513 Speaker 2: of my trauma? 548 00:24:26,714 --> 00:24:29,194 Speaker 1: Valid question, which is absolutely true. And then you know, 549 00:24:29,474 --> 00:24:33,194 Speaker 1: for Daryl, it's the same thing. She lost her friends, She. 550 00:24:33,194 --> 00:24:37,274 Speaker 2: Lost her friends and also like someone she'd loved so dearly, 551 00:24:37,674 --> 00:24:39,794 Speaker 2: Like it's very it'd be very hard to sit back 552 00:24:39,834 --> 00:24:42,793 Speaker 2: and watch an inaccurate portrayal of that, especially one that 553 00:24:42,834 --> 00:24:46,354 Speaker 2: does portray her is quite just unhinged, especially around the 554 00:24:46,354 --> 00:24:48,874 Speaker 2: death of the dog Y. So this has been blowing 555 00:24:48,954 --> 00:24:51,154 Speaker 2: up online and she mentions it in her essay because 556 00:24:51,754 --> 00:24:53,834 Speaker 2: part of the story of the TV show is that 557 00:24:54,114 --> 00:24:57,754 Speaker 2: she compared Jackie Oh's death to a dog's death, and 558 00:24:57,834 --> 00:24:59,593 Speaker 2: like it was this whole thing in the show of 559 00:24:59,674 --> 00:25:02,394 Speaker 2: like she makes John fly to hang out with her 560 00:25:02,474 --> 00:25:04,634 Speaker 2: and go to a dog funeral and then his actual mother, 561 00:25:04,714 --> 00:25:06,754 Speaker 2: Jackie Oh, is sick and all of this, And she says, 562 00:25:06,794 --> 00:25:08,313 Speaker 2: it's a calling to me that I even have to 563 00:25:08,314 --> 00:25:11,474 Speaker 2: defend myself against a television show. These are not creative 564 00:25:11,474 --> 00:25:15,354 Speaker 2: embellishments of personality, their ascertations about conduct, and they are false, 565 00:25:15,634 --> 00:25:17,674 Speaker 2: is what she's essentially saying. She's like, no, I didn't 566 00:25:17,714 --> 00:25:21,793 Speaker 2: do that, including the cocaine parties. But she's very upset 567 00:25:21,834 --> 00:25:23,074 Speaker 2: and I think has every right to be. 568 00:25:23,674 --> 00:25:26,914 Speaker 1: Yeah, I completely agree, she absolutely has every right to be. 569 00:25:27,714 --> 00:25:31,513 Speaker 1: It sounds like she was never consulted, But I also 570 00:25:31,634 --> 00:25:34,034 Speaker 1: know if she had been, I would imagine she wouldn't 571 00:25:34,034 --> 00:25:36,154 Speaker 1: have wanted to partake in this at all either. 572 00:25:36,514 --> 00:25:38,874 Speaker 2: So this is something Ryan Murphy has been accused of 573 00:25:39,074 --> 00:25:42,914 Speaker 2: a lot with his series that depict real people, in 574 00:25:42,954 --> 00:25:45,914 Speaker 2: particular with the Monsters series. It was kind of different 575 00:25:45,954 --> 00:25:47,434 Speaker 2: what he was actually, I don't even think it was 576 00:25:47,474 --> 00:25:49,154 Speaker 2: kind of different. It was also he was accused of 577 00:25:49,194 --> 00:25:52,793 Speaker 2: like falsifying facts and turning them into like these dramas, 578 00:25:52,834 --> 00:25:56,514 Speaker 2: but he was also accused with monsters of making murderous 579 00:25:56,554 --> 00:26:01,634 Speaker 2: hot like which it was especially with Dharma, which was 580 00:26:01,794 --> 00:26:06,354 Speaker 2: Emma Peters, and with see I say that he drags 581 00:26:06,354 --> 00:26:10,754 Speaker 2: poor Evenue Evans everywhere, Evan like Sarah Paulson. Guys, sometimes 582 00:26:10,754 --> 00:26:12,754 Speaker 2: you can say no to him, sometimes you can say no. 583 00:26:13,234 --> 00:26:15,554 Speaker 2: But and it was like with Ed Gain as well 584 00:26:15,594 --> 00:26:17,994 Speaker 2: and Charlie Hunnam. One of the things was these men 585 00:26:18,034 --> 00:26:21,033 Speaker 2: don't look how these other men who actually like the 586 00:26:21,074 --> 00:26:23,474 Speaker 2: murderers looked in real life, but he would cast hot 587 00:26:23,514 --> 00:26:26,474 Speaker 2: men to play them and then use those men's hotness 588 00:26:26,554 --> 00:26:30,234 Speaker 2: in the marketing and in this sort of change storyline. 589 00:26:30,354 --> 00:26:32,194 Speaker 2: And it was very upsetting to a lot of people. 590 00:26:32,234 --> 00:26:34,874 Speaker 2: And I think instead, what he's done here is, I mean, 591 00:26:34,954 --> 00:26:37,674 Speaker 2: everyone was hot in real life and in the show, 592 00:26:38,114 --> 00:26:41,514 Speaker 2: but he's taken facts and obviously twisted them and turned them. 593 00:26:41,514 --> 00:26:42,994 Speaker 2: But these people are still real and the things that 594 00:26:42,994 --> 00:26:45,273 Speaker 2: happened to them is still traumatic or still tragic or 595 00:26:45,354 --> 00:26:47,834 Speaker 2: just deeply deeply personal, and they have every right to 596 00:26:47,874 --> 00:26:49,674 Speaker 2: be upset about it. That's the part I find interesting. 597 00:26:49,714 --> 00:26:51,914 Speaker 2: I'm seeing a lot of fans be like, oh, but 598 00:26:51,954 --> 00:26:54,194 Speaker 2: it's just his version. It's like, you don't really need 599 00:26:54,234 --> 00:26:55,714 Speaker 2: to do your version of the truth. 600 00:26:56,194 --> 00:26:58,714 Speaker 1: Also, there are people out there that are nuanced enough 601 00:26:58,754 --> 00:27:01,154 Speaker 1: to look at something and go, that's just his version. 602 00:27:01,194 --> 00:27:04,354 Speaker 1: But there's also a lot of people that Jena not 603 00:27:04,354 --> 00:27:07,954 Speaker 1: not have that ability, which she references. And I'm going 604 00:27:07,994 --> 00:27:10,234 Speaker 1: to read this bit as well. It's when so many 605 00:27:10,234 --> 00:27:13,354 Speaker 1: people watch a dramatization that uses a real name, real 606 00:27:13,394 --> 00:27:16,874 Speaker 1: life consequences follow. In the weeks since the series aired, 607 00:27:16,994 --> 00:27:20,394 Speaker 1: I have received many hostile and even threatening messages from 608 00:27:20,474 --> 00:27:24,274 Speaker 1: viewers who seem to believe the portrayal is factual. When 609 00:27:24,474 --> 00:27:27,794 Speaker 1: entertainment borrows a real person's name, it can permanently impact 610 00:27:27,834 --> 00:27:28,514 Speaker 1: their reputation. 611 00:27:29,634 --> 00:27:32,994 Speaker 2: So true, Paul Darryl, can you imagine the crazy things 612 00:27:33,034 --> 00:27:36,474 Speaker 2: that that woman is receiving. Its fans who don't understand. 613 00:27:36,154 --> 00:27:38,354 Speaker 1: Here living her life, and all of a sudden she's 614 00:27:38,394 --> 00:27:42,634 Speaker 1: getting these like hostile and threatening messages because people watched 615 00:27:42,634 --> 00:27:44,994 Speaker 1: a TV series and thought that that was an accurate 616 00:27:44,994 --> 00:27:46,073 Speaker 1: depiction of what happened. 617 00:27:46,314 --> 00:27:50,234 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, do you know Jack Shlosberg, do I 618 00:27:50,314 --> 00:27:54,234 Speaker 2: know him, like of him names. 619 00:27:55,074 --> 00:27:56,714 Speaker 1: I'm like, I know a lot of people, but no, 620 00:27:56,834 --> 00:27:58,234 Speaker 1: I don't personally know him. 621 00:27:58,314 --> 00:27:59,793 Speaker 2: You actually do know a lot of people, so you 622 00:27:59,794 --> 00:28:02,874 Speaker 2: can personally know him. But for anyone who doesn't, he 623 00:28:02,954 --> 00:28:06,394 Speaker 2: is the grandson of JFK and the nephew of JFK Jr. 624 00:28:06,714 --> 00:28:10,354 Speaker 2: And he he was kind of like an Internet personality 625 00:28:10,594 --> 00:28:12,914 Speaker 2: and then now has transitioned and I think this was 626 00:28:12,914 --> 00:28:16,513 Speaker 2: always the plan. Has transitioned into running for office in 627 00:28:16,514 --> 00:28:18,994 Speaker 2: the US and he wants to be a politician, and 628 00:28:19,274 --> 00:28:21,034 Speaker 2: he's got a lot of interesting, great things to say. 629 00:28:21,074 --> 00:28:23,194 Speaker 2: But he has been one of the most vocal and 630 00:28:23,194 --> 00:28:25,474 Speaker 2: one of the first people to speak out against this 631 00:28:25,634 --> 00:28:28,794 Speaker 2: TV series. And one of the things he said over 632 00:28:28,834 --> 00:28:31,434 Speaker 2: the weekend was, if you want to know someone who's 633 00:28:31,474 --> 00:28:34,154 Speaker 2: never met anyone in my family knows nothing about us, 634 00:28:34,274 --> 00:28:36,994 Speaker 2: talk to Ryan Murphy. And then he was like, as 635 00:28:36,994 --> 00:28:40,074 Speaker 2: far as he's concerned, though this is inspired by real events, 636 00:28:40,234 --> 00:28:42,954 Speaker 2: is he said, a million miles from reality. I would 637 00:28:43,034 --> 00:28:44,994 Speaker 2: just want people who do watch the show to watch 638 00:28:45,034 --> 00:28:46,914 Speaker 2: it with one letter in mind, and that's a capital 639 00:28:47,034 --> 00:28:49,314 Speaker 2: F for fiction. But I knows nothing about what he's 640 00:28:49,314 --> 00:28:51,314 Speaker 2: talking about, and he's making a ton of money on 641 00:28:51,354 --> 00:28:53,674 Speaker 2: a grow tesque display of someone else's life. 642 00:28:53,994 --> 00:28:56,354 Speaker 1: And I think that's what Daryl Hannah is struggling with, 643 00:28:56,514 --> 00:28:58,874 Speaker 1: is like it's one thing to say, like, oh, we 644 00:28:58,954 --> 00:29:01,434 Speaker 1: made this show, and yes, every single person in this 645 00:29:01,514 --> 00:29:03,954 Speaker 1: modern audience and social media world we live in has 646 00:29:03,994 --> 00:29:06,754 Speaker 1: discernment and can understand that this is a fictionalized telling, 647 00:29:07,274 --> 00:29:09,114 Speaker 1: not the world we live in. And people don't have that, 648 00:29:09,514 --> 00:29:11,674 Speaker 1: and so they then go out and seek out the 649 00:29:11,714 --> 00:29:14,794 Speaker 1: real life people and attack them in a moment when 650 00:29:15,194 --> 00:29:17,594 Speaker 1: it's not true. And they also like, probably don't need 651 00:29:17,634 --> 00:29:20,114 Speaker 1: to be attacked over something that happened decades ago and 652 00:29:20,154 --> 00:29:22,354 Speaker 1: you're seeing a fake version of anyway. So I had 653 00:29:22,434 --> 00:29:25,914 Speaker 1: a question for container, Yes, will you continue watching it 654 00:29:27,954 --> 00:29:31,194 Speaker 1: knowing that the people in it who are still alive 655 00:29:31,234 --> 00:29:34,354 Speaker 1: today or the family members of those who are the 656 00:29:34,394 --> 00:29:37,234 Speaker 1: subject matters, really don't want us to watch it. 657 00:29:37,674 --> 00:29:40,434 Speaker 2: I am only watching it for work. I'll say that 658 00:29:40,754 --> 00:29:42,194 Speaker 2: I am only watching it for work. 659 00:29:42,314 --> 00:29:42,514 Speaker 1: One. 660 00:29:42,674 --> 00:29:44,874 Speaker 2: I do find Paul Anthony Kelly very hot. I don't 661 00:29:44,914 --> 00:29:47,434 Speaker 2: think he's the best in acting. I understand why he 662 00:29:47,474 --> 00:29:49,954 Speaker 2: was only recently cussed in a TV series, but he's 663 00:29:49,954 --> 00:29:51,994 Speaker 2: a beautiful man and I'll give him that he looks 664 00:29:52,034 --> 00:29:54,474 Speaker 2: great in the clothes. He looks excellent in the clothes. 665 00:29:55,114 --> 00:29:57,474 Speaker 2: I don't think I would be watching it if it 666 00:29:57,514 --> 00:30:00,594 Speaker 2: was just for enjoyment, because I also find like, if 667 00:30:00,594 --> 00:30:02,954 Speaker 2: I was just looking at this as a viewer, how 668 00:30:02,994 --> 00:30:05,754 Speaker 2: inaccurate it's being said that it is. I don't think 669 00:30:05,794 --> 00:30:07,074 Speaker 2: I would really enjoy it. What about it? 670 00:30:07,834 --> 00:30:15,554 Speaker 1: I am personally really enjoying that after talking about Ryan Murphy. 671 00:30:15,274 --> 00:30:17,634 Speaker 2: So so horrible. I love him. 672 00:30:18,434 --> 00:30:20,674 Speaker 1: I love him, and I love the shows that he 673 00:30:20,714 --> 00:30:22,714 Speaker 1: makes most of them, and then when he misses, he 674 00:30:22,754 --> 00:30:24,314 Speaker 1: really misses, and that's okay. 675 00:30:24,554 --> 00:30:27,314 Speaker 2: But then sometimes, like All's fair, people were really ragging 676 00:30:27,314 --> 00:30:28,594 Speaker 2: on that, and I know Laura and I had a 677 00:30:28,594 --> 00:30:29,114 Speaker 2: great time. 678 00:30:29,234 --> 00:30:32,394 Speaker 1: Oh same, I had an absolute ball watching that. Yeah, 679 00:30:32,474 --> 00:30:34,874 Speaker 1: Ryan Murphy's really good at getting everyone to talk about him. 680 00:30:35,114 --> 00:30:38,594 Speaker 1: He gets a lot of minutes out of us. So look, yes, 681 00:30:39,194 --> 00:30:43,034 Speaker 1: I will continue watching it. I will continue enjoying it. 682 00:30:43,434 --> 00:30:45,834 Speaker 1: I wonder I don't know. I wonder if it will 683 00:30:45,914 --> 00:30:47,434 Speaker 1: change the way that I feel about it. 684 00:30:47,754 --> 00:30:49,314 Speaker 2: But I think you would have already had it. 685 00:30:49,354 --> 00:30:50,594 Speaker 1: I was going to say, I was always going to 686 00:30:50,634 --> 00:30:52,554 Speaker 1: take it with a grain of salt. So that's Okay, 687 00:30:52,634 --> 00:30:54,874 Speaker 1: I wasn't going to watch it instead of say, this 688 00:30:55,034 --> 00:30:57,714 Speaker 1: is the most accurate depiction of what happened. And Ryan 689 00:30:57,834 --> 00:31:01,754 Speaker 1: Murphy knows everything, you know, he does like to dramatize 690 00:31:01,754 --> 00:31:02,514 Speaker 1: things in camp it. 691 00:31:03,074 --> 00:31:05,514 Speaker 2: I would say that Daryl Hannah is just hoping that 692 00:31:05,754 --> 00:31:08,074 Speaker 2: because this show's not over, say, she's just hoping that 693 00:31:08,114 --> 00:31:09,994 Speaker 2: maybe people start to do that they take it with 694 00:31:10,074 --> 00:31:12,554 Speaker 2: a grain of salt and they don't necessarily believe what's met, 695 00:31:12,554 --> 00:31:13,754 Speaker 2: and they also just leave her alone. 696 00:31:14,074 --> 00:31:17,914 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I think the threatening and hostile messages to her, 697 00:31:18,474 --> 00:31:20,514 Speaker 1: that's got to stop, and hopefully this New York Times 698 00:31:20,594 --> 00:31:22,274 Speaker 1: piece will because it's blown up everywhere. 699 00:31:22,274 --> 00:31:24,034 Speaker 2: It's everywhere. Jamie Lee Curtis shared it. 700 00:31:24,594 --> 00:31:26,674 Speaker 1: She's on the money on her social media, and everyone 701 00:31:26,714 --> 00:31:29,234 Speaker 1: trusts jamiely. Do you think though, that this is a 702 00:31:29,234 --> 00:31:32,034 Speaker 1: part of why, like so many artists say, like Bruce 703 00:31:32,074 --> 00:31:34,914 Speaker 1: Springsteen got involved with his own biopic. Oh. I thought 704 00:31:34,994 --> 00:31:37,354 Speaker 1: this was interesting too, because I was thinking that about 705 00:31:37,434 --> 00:31:40,874 Speaker 1: Elton John as well as Rocketman, which was great because 706 00:31:40,874 --> 00:31:43,114 Speaker 1: it was warts and all, like, yes, you know, but 707 00:31:43,834 --> 00:31:47,354 Speaker 1: to be able to get involved and self owned and 708 00:31:47,394 --> 00:31:50,274 Speaker 1: self directed a little bit, yes, yes, yes, And at 709 00:31:50,354 --> 00:31:53,314 Speaker 1: least know what was coming out as well. Yeah, I 710 00:31:53,354 --> 00:31:54,074 Speaker 1: do think so. 711 00:31:54,354 --> 00:31:56,874 Speaker 2: Yeah, And like Brian May was involved with the Bohemian 712 00:31:56,954 --> 00:32:00,634 Speaker 2: Rhapsody biopic, so like by actually being involved in I 713 00:32:00,674 --> 00:32:03,074 Speaker 2: guess the production or scriptwriting, and often they are kind 714 00:32:03,074 --> 00:32:06,114 Speaker 2: of based off people's memoirs as well. It does give 715 00:32:06,154 --> 00:32:08,354 Speaker 2: you a level of control, but also a level of 716 00:32:08,474 --> 00:32:10,754 Speaker 2: input of things that may not have been known or 717 00:32:10,874 --> 00:32:13,594 Speaker 2: like all the warts and all, like you said, Whereas 718 00:32:13,634 --> 00:32:15,874 Speaker 2: in this case, Ryan Murphy is filling in the warts 719 00:32:15,874 --> 00:32:19,314 Speaker 2: and all from just accounts from other people or from 720 00:32:19,394 --> 00:32:21,714 Speaker 2: just fun fictionalizations that he's come up with that he 721 00:32:21,754 --> 00:32:23,954 Speaker 2: thinks would make a good narrative device totally. 722 00:32:24,034 --> 00:32:26,834 Speaker 1: And you know what it proved with like Bohemia, Raapsny 723 00:32:26,914 --> 00:32:29,954 Speaker 1: and Rocketman, for example, is that the stories are fascinating 724 00:32:30,034 --> 00:32:32,034 Speaker 1: enough that you don't need to fabricate around it. And 725 00:32:32,074 --> 00:32:35,954 Speaker 1: I think with Carolyn and John, the story is fascinating 726 00:32:36,074 --> 00:32:40,834 Speaker 1: enough without needing sort of lies and mistruths woven into it. 727 00:32:41,034 --> 00:32:43,914 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I guess like they're also really like profiting 728 00:32:43,914 --> 00:32:47,914 Speaker 2: off that Kennedy name without really giving you like a 729 00:32:47,994 --> 00:32:50,794 Speaker 2: version of truth, Like trust me that Kennedy's are interesting enough. 730 00:32:51,234 --> 00:32:54,314 Speaker 2: I would have taken a bite of reality out of that. 731 00:32:54,594 --> 00:32:57,114 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, every single way, like I would. 732 00:32:56,954 --> 00:32:59,194 Speaker 2: Have taken anything. And I know this was also a 733 00:32:59,234 --> 00:33:02,434 Speaker 2: little bit controversial in its own way, but Gray Gardens, 734 00:33:02,914 --> 00:33:05,474 Speaker 2: being an accurate depiction of big eating and little eaty 735 00:33:05,474 --> 00:33:07,874 Speaker 2: of the Kennedy family far more interesting than anything Ry 736 00:33:07,994 --> 00:33:10,234 Speaker 2: Murphy can ever cook up. So like, I do actually 737 00:33:10,274 --> 00:33:12,434 Speaker 2: think it could have been more interesting as a series 738 00:33:12,714 --> 00:33:14,594 Speaker 2: to play a little bit more with the truth than 739 00:33:14,634 --> 00:33:16,714 Speaker 2: to do what it has done, which is upset all 740 00:33:16,754 --> 00:33:19,114 Speaker 2: of the real life counterparts who've been portrayed. Yeah. 741 00:33:19,114 --> 00:33:22,514 Speaker 1: Absolutely, Yeah, I agree with you. Thank you so much 742 00:33:22,554 --> 00:33:24,794 Speaker 1: for listening to The Spill today. We love hearing from 743 00:33:24,794 --> 00:33:27,674 Speaker 1: your spillers, so drop us a dim on Instagram or TikTok. 744 00:33:28,074 --> 00:33:30,674 Speaker 1: We back here in your feed tomorrow at seven am 745 00:33:30,714 --> 00:33:34,314 Speaker 1: with Morning Tea, hosted by the wonderful Ash London. The 746 00:33:34,434 --> 00:33:37,954 Speaker 1: Spill is produced by miniesha Isswarren and audio production is 747 00:33:37,994 --> 00:33:39,994 Speaker 1: by Scott Stronik. We'll see you next time. 748 00:33:40,154 --> 00:33:53,674 Speaker 2: Bye bye, Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land. 749 00:33:53,714 --> 00:33:56,714 Speaker 1: We have recorded this podcast on the Gatigor people of 750 00:33:56,754 --> 00:34:00,154 Speaker 1: the eorination. We pay our respects to their elders past 751 00:34:00,194 --> 00:34:03,074 Speaker 1: and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and 752 00:34:03,154 --> 00:34:04,554 Speaker 1: Torres Strait Islander cultures.