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Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Sikh. The great

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Speaker 1: job boom is upon us and there's never been a

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Speaker 1: better time to take the next step in your path.

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Speaker 2: Yay. You're not going to know until you undertake the

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Speaker 2: assessment of whether or not it's worth the risk, Like

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Speaker 2: you're not going to know until you go through that

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Speaker 2: yes or no, And everyone has to make those decisions

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Speaker 2: to themselves. But you're not going to know whether you

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Speaker 2: can do it until you sit down and try and

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Speaker 2: do it. Where things really started to work out for

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Speaker 2: me was accepting who I was as a person and

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Speaker 2: accepting that I was not going to be cookie cutter.

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Speaker 2: I was always going to be who I was, and

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Speaker 2: the second that I embraced who I was, things changed

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Speaker 2: to me.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Sees the Yay Podcast. Busy and happy

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Speaker 1: are not the same thing. We too rarely question what

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Speaker 1: makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but

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Speaker 1: rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than

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Speaker 1: one way. So this is a platform to hear and

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Speaker 1: explore the stories of those who found lives They adore,

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Speaker 1: the good, bad and ugly. The best and worst days

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Speaker 1: will bear all the facets of seizing your Yay. I'm

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Speaker 1: Sarah Davidson or Spoonful of Sarah, a lawyer turned fuentrepreneurs

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Speaker 1: swapped the suits and heels to co found matcha Maiden

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Speaker 1: and matcha Milk Bar. CZA is a series of conversations

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Speaker 1: on finding a life you love and exploring the self doubt, challenge,

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Speaker 1: joy and fulfillment along the way. I could not be

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Speaker 1: more excited about today's guest, as she is not only

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Speaker 1: one of my dearest friends in the world, but also

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Speaker 1: the perfect example of an entrepreneur who has repeatedly embraced

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Speaker 1: the beauty of change. She is also the exquisite bride

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Speaker 1: from this past weekend. If any of you were watching

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Speaker 1: my socials, you may have caught her smashing plates on

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Speaker 1: the ground in her fully fledged Juton dress in true

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Speaker 1: big fat Greek wedding style. Kat is nothing if not

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Speaker 1: extra and I love her to bits for it. Kat

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Speaker 1: and I met at our selective entry high school mech

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Speaker 1: Rob and shared the hilarious dichotomy between our very nerdy

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Speaker 1: academic selves and our station hanging in wild child tendencies.

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Speaker 1: On the other hand, she also went on to do

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Speaker 1: law arts at Monash, but unlike me, stayed within the

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Speaker 1: law to pave an incredibly successful career, but also not

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Speaker 1: without its own pivots. She is a brilliant employment lawyer

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Speaker 1: who has worked her way through several huge jumps between

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Speaker 1: corporate and in house Sydney and Melbourne, and is literally

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Speaker 1: on the cusp of another big change. We've had a

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Speaker 1: lot of self doubt and certainty chats lately, so she

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Speaker 1: couldn't be more perfect for fellow seekers of change to

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Speaker 1: hear from. Right now, Cat brings so much a to

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Speaker 1: my life, you'll very quickly hear why. So I hope

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Speaker 1: you love her as much as I do. Welcome to Seize,

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Speaker 1: my darling, Cat.

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Speaker 2: Hello, my love you. Hello, beautiful people. Oh my gosh,

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Speaker 2: you're so much brand.

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Speaker 1: So for context, everyone, Cat and I have known each

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Speaker 1: other since like high school. So all of the chapters

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Speaker 1: of My Path Yay that you've kind of heard a

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Speaker 1: bit about, Kat's there for all of them, so it

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Speaker 1: has born witnessed to a lot of different versions of

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Speaker 1: Sarah and the Yay has also listened to the podcast

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Speaker 1: and been an epic supporter for the whole time, so

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Speaker 1: we'll know all the puns and all the background, so

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Speaker 1: it's even more of a privilege to have you here today,

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Speaker 1: my darling.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much. I'm so honored to be here.

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Speaker 2: And yes I have all the receipts from all the

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Speaker 2: various parts of your life come out mostly on your birthday.

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Speaker 1: This is such a risk. I'm like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: this is a much I know, too much, way too much.

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Speaker 1: There's photo evidence. There's just too many skeletons. But it's

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Speaker 1: your turn to be in the spotlight, so we can

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Speaker 1: talk about your skeletons. Let's starting to be here all day,

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Speaker 1: I know, right, I was like, how much time should

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Speaker 1: we really leave for this. I'm glad we're starting holiday

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Speaker 1: because this is going to be like a Joe rogan

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Speaker 1: An epic, maybe a trilogy even just minus TBC on that. So,

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Speaker 1: as you know, this is a mini series which has

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Speaker 1: been a really amazing way to kind of dive a

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Speaker 1: little bit deeper into areas that are more timely and

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Speaker 1: more specific. And one of the things I probably don't

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Speaker 1: share enough on the show, but really really think you're

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Speaker 1: an amazing, amazing representation of is the entrepreneurial journey and

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Speaker 1: how creative and fulfilled and exciting it can be to

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Speaker 1: work within companies and still forge your path and cz

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Speaker 1: your yea. So I'd love to go back to the

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Speaker 1: very beginning, which is something we do in every episode

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Speaker 1: to kind of, you know, trace through all the dots

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Speaker 1: and how they connect. What did your youngest self first

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Speaker 1: seek to become? Which makes me happy because I think

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Speaker 1: it's I think it's Yelvis, which I think is suh.

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Speaker 2: My god, moh. The fact that this has come up

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Speaker 2: on the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Minute two and we're straight into yo. But this is important.

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Speaker 2: Elvis is important. Yas is actually relevant to my path

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Speaker 2: because I actually, originally when I was little, wanted to

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Speaker 2: be a ballerina, but realized pretty quickly that my physical

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Speaker 2: comp position as a child not necessarily allow me to

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Speaker 2: be a ballerina. And if you've seen my Greek dancing days,

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Speaker 2: you'll know that that was the case. So, yeah, I

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Speaker 2: wanted to be a ballerina. I was a larger child,

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Speaker 2: and yeah, couldn't do that. So I think I don't

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Speaker 2: really know what my younger self wanted to be, because

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Speaker 2: as long as I can remember, people told me I

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Speaker 2: should be a lawyer. I talked a lot. Yeah, So

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Speaker 2: I remember being like maybe three or four or five

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Speaker 2: when my dad was like, you would make a great lawyer.

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Speaker 2: You talk so much. I was very quick to defend

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Speaker 2: people like yes, yeah, a constant defender of the underdog.

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Speaker 2: I would have an argument when an argument was not required,

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Speaker 2: like genuinely would just start fighting. I just always wanted

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Speaker 2: to put forward an opposing viewpoint or be the devil's advocate.

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Speaker 2: I think I'm still like that, but yeah, I just

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Speaker 2: forever had this messaging that you would be a great lawyer.

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Speaker 2: You would be a great lawyer. So I kind of

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Speaker 2: grew up in my kind of formative years knowing that

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Speaker 2: that was the path. People had always told me that.

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Speaker 1: That is extraordinary. I actually didn't know that about you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Like I mean obviously a chatterbox like

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Speaker 2: you know that can't get a word in sideways around

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Speaker 2: me and love, you know, as we said off podcast,

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Speaker 2: love giving a lecture occasionally mostly drunk about life.

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Speaker 1: And I mean those are my favorite chats with you,

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Speaker 1: my absolute.

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Speaker 2: Favorite just discussing life. Existential crisis comes up often, you know,

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Speaker 2: why the world is the way the world is? The

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Speaker 2: stars has come up recently, as you know, you know,

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Speaker 2: all those discussions.

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Speaker 1: God, I mean, our voice memos to each other are

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Speaker 1: just out of prolific, out of controlic.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. But also I love a voice memo. So for

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Speaker 2: everyone listening, I think voice memos are the way of

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Speaker 2: the future. Don't text that people listen to the voices.

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Speaker 1: You need the voice. You need the voice, the animation

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Speaker 1: in your voice on a Monday morning.

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Speaker 2: And also, like tell me, if you get a voice

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Speaker 2: message from your girlfriend, you don't know that the message

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Speaker 2: is going to be great. Like it's not like I, Hey,

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Speaker 2: what's up. It's I have a story to tell you,

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Speaker 2: and I have to tell you right now, and you

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Speaker 2: need to listen to my voice. That's a tough thing, exactly.

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Speaker 1: So obviously, Yelvis is yellow Elvis, which actually is probably

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Speaker 1: not that obvious to anyone outside No, but yellow Elvis

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Speaker 1: was a costume that it.

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Speaker 2: Wasn't a costume. That was the best part of it.

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Speaker 2: What do you mean It wasn't a costume, It wasn't outfit,

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Speaker 2: So yellow Elvis. So as part of my journey, we

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Speaker 2: moved to Greece when we were little, and right I

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Speaker 2: told us we were going on a holiday. People are

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Speaker 2: going to think my family's bond because after listening to.

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Speaker 1: This, which is accurate.

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Speaker 2: So Dad was like, oh, we're going on a family holiday.

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Speaker 2: And we didn't really holiday as kids. Like, the focus

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Speaker 2: for us was really like education, you know, migrant kind

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Speaker 2: of story. You come to this country, mum's a refugee,

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Speaker 2: dad's migrant, came to country to give your children a future,

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Speaker 2: and that was the whole focus. They worked. We went

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Speaker 2: to school with the vision, you know, the kind of

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Speaker 2: greater vision in mind. And anyway, I was nine years

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Speaker 2: old and Dad said, we're going to go to Greece

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Speaker 2: for a holiday. So I was like, great, this is

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Speaker 2: what all the other kids do. This is amazing. So

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Speaker 2: we went to Greece. Narrator, it was not a holiday.

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Speaker 1: Dad moved on, you should n'tarrate every episode.

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Speaker 2: I feel that was just like surprise, we're living here. Actually,

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Speaker 2: the weird thing that happened was when we got there,

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Speaker 2: we enrolled us at school and I was like, this

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Speaker 2: is weird. My like, Anglo friends don't go to school

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Speaker 2: when they go on holidays. I've seen, like, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: this is really strange. Anyway, a year later, we're still

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Speaker 2: in Grace, We're still in school. I was like, something's

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Speaker 2: not right. So we leaved over there for a year,

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Speaker 2: and then we came back because obviously that didn't work out.

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Speaker 2: So we came back and on my first day back

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Speaker 2: at my primary school in Melbourne, it was casual clothes day,

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Speaker 2: and because I had just been in Greece for a

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Speaker 2: whole year, I was really welcoming a euro vibe, you know.

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Speaker 2: I was all about the sequence, the white pants.

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Speaker 1: The you know, the Eurovision time seasons.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so I decided that on my first day

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Speaker 2: back at my primary school. Mind you, everyone's wearing like

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Speaker 2: trackies and you know, like I mean when we were

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Speaker 2: wearing back.

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Speaker 1: There, Yeah, gosh, brand.

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Speaker 2: I turned up in my favorite euro outfit because I

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Speaker 2: was like, I'm going to make an entrance. Also, nothing's changed,

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Speaker 2: and I was like three piece canary yellow outfit, Elvis esque,

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Speaker 2: you know. It was a bell bottom bell bottom pants

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Speaker 2: with his little tiny best and like a blazer. Now, honestly,

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Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure I saw Scanlon selling a similar set

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Speaker 2: recently for like one thousand dollars. Meanwhile, I picked it

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Speaker 2: up at like some little woggie market in Gulla. Mother

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Speaker 2: and my god and I went to school and I was,

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Speaker 2: you know, I was a little bit rotund at the time,

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Speaker 2: like if you push me down a hill, I would

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Speaker 2: have rolled just for like a while, bab And so

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Speaker 2: you know, a mid droop top at that age was

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Speaker 2: like cute now, but like at the time not and

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Speaker 2: kids are vicious. So I turned up on the day

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Speaker 2: in this outfit. Everyone else is in like navy red,

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Speaker 2: like normal stuff, and I turn up looking literally like

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Speaker 2: baby Elvis. And I just remember sitting by myself on

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Speaker 2: the steps of the church and people yelling Yelvis at me,

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Speaker 2: like obviously yellow outfit, and I looked like Elvis. So

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Speaker 2: I was yelloless from there on. Love and you still

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Speaker 2: tell you guys this story, and now the whole world

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Speaker 2: goes this story.

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Speaker 1: So we live for the day that Yelvis makes a return.

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Speaker 1: I feel like it's going to happen on Londony in

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Speaker 1: our friendship.

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Speaker 2: One hundred percent will make a return at some stage.

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Speaker 2: But you know what, like the Bully was relentless. But

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Speaker 2: I look back on it quite fondly because I think

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Speaker 2: it was formative.

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Speaker 1: It was, yeah, and.

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Speaker 2: It's a great story.

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Speaker 1: Now it isn't great. It's a very It's a great

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Speaker 1: conversation starter. Not that you need conversation starters to help

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Speaker 1: you with conversation. I think it's I think it's really

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Speaker 1: like in a really endearing, lovely way. It's such a

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Speaker 1: representation of what you are in this life. You aren't

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Speaker 1: the person who turns up in the Navy and the Red.

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Speaker 1: You've never made a quiet entrance, You've never been a wallflower,

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Speaker 1: and it does mean that it's been especially hard, I

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Speaker 1: think for you to find the box that you fit in,

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Speaker 1: if not that you don't really want to fit in,

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Speaker 1: which is why you're the perfect guest for this miniseries

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Speaker 1: because the you know, the whole idea is that we

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Speaker 1: often have a dream that either we don't end up

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Speaker 1: doing or that we get to in a totally different

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Speaker 1: way to the way we thought. And even the fact

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Speaker 1: that you wanted to be a lawyer, but your first

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Speaker 1: year at UNI wasn't law, it was arts and then

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Speaker 1: you moved into arts law, Like, there's been so many

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Speaker 1: big pivots along the way, and I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: one of the common kind of themes for everyone in

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Speaker 1: finding their pathways, and it never really looks you know,

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Speaker 1: the more unique that you are, the harder it is

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Speaker 1: to find what the right way is for you. So

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Speaker 1: tell us about how you did end up where you are.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you've had some extraordinary positions. But it was

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Speaker 1: not a straight line.

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Speaker 2: No, And it was a struggle I have to admit, because,

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Speaker 2: like you said, I never really fit the mold. I

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Speaker 2: mean we came up kind of together. Through high school

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Speaker 2: and through UNI primary school was a challenge for me.

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Speaker 2: Like I said, I got bullied quite a lot. High

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Speaker 2: school is kind of where I found myself, and particularly

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Speaker 2: at Macrob. I mean I kicked and screamed about going

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Speaker 2: to Macrob and I ran away from home. I don't

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Speaker 2: know if I've ever told you that story. When I

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Speaker 2: got in, my dad was like you're going to MCROB

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Speaker 2: and I was like, nah, I have friends where I

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Speaker 2: am and I ran away from home. It lasted eight hours.

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Speaker 2: I'm not joking. I got hungry and came back, but

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Speaker 2: I love you.

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Speaker 1: Probably ran like around the block and we're like.

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Speaker 2: Oy the way I was around the corner, just sitting

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Speaker 2: by train tracks, like I know that that level crossing,

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Speaker 2: And then I got hungry and then I was like

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Speaker 2: I'm going over my protest. So yeah, high school was

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Speaker 2: kind of where I found myself. But the career path

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Speaker 2: that you're given, but I think, particularly when we were

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Speaker 2: coming through school. I think it's changing now. But the

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Speaker 2: career path that we were told was the way through

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Speaker 2: high school through into the first stages of UNI was

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Speaker 2: very much like must get X score, must get into

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Speaker 2: degree instantly, must finish degree, start working like that was

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Speaker 2: kind of what we were told. And particularly when you

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Speaker 2: were looking to do law, you know, I remember the

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Speaker 2: kind of clerkship season, and it was like, if you

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Speaker 2: don't get into a certain law firm, you're not going

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Speaker 2: to succeed if you don't. You know, it was like

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Speaker 2: your mid tiers and your top tiers and you know,

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Speaker 2: and that was kind of what we were told. So

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Speaker 2: and my path was not that at all. I really

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Speaker 2: struggled at UNI. I knew I was going to love practice,

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Speaker 2: but I hated UNI. I loved the social aspect, surprise, surprise,

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Speaker 2: shocking down, so just sitting down for that message.

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Speaker 1: An aru, but I.

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Speaker 2: Hated the study I did. I didn't want to study

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Speaker 2: property law, and I didn't want to study body constitutional law,

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Speaker 2: and I didn't I wasn't interested, and I, you know,

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Speaker 2: I would come from a very kind of like rigid

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Speaker 2: structure at high school into a very autonomous structure at UNI,

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Speaker 2: and I really struggled to find my feet between you know,

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Speaker 2: going to Cuba every Thursday night and then going out

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Speaker 2: every Friday night and Saturday and trying to study in between,

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Speaker 2: you know, like there wasn't enough time. How do I

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Speaker 2: fit in all of the things most in all of

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Speaker 2: the things. So yeah, I really really struggled. And then

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Speaker 2: at Uni. I did really well at high school, you know,

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Speaker 2: comparatively like if you look at scale, but still didn't

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Speaker 2: get enough to get into UNI. And that was a

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Speaker 2: real blow, Like I felt really devastated by that, but

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Speaker 2: decided to do arts and yeah, did two years of

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Speaker 2: arts at Monash and then transferred in to a law degree.

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Speaker 2: Actually almost missed my spot in the transfer because I

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Speaker 2: didn't check my emails with the offer the letter of offer,

300
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Speaker 2: and oh my god, the deadline and missed the deadline

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Speaker 2: and ended up at the legal like the law faculty office,

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Speaker 2: like crying, literally in tears, saying I've been waiting my

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Speaker 2: whole life for this, my parents moved to Australia for this,

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Speaker 2: Please let me in, Please give me my spot, and

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Speaker 2: ended up having to do orientation late. It was a

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Speaker 2: whole thing, but yeah, it wasn't an easy thing to

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Speaker 2: get into law, and then I got into law and

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Speaker 2: really struggled through it until kind of the end when

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Speaker 2: I really kind of buckled down. And then I didn't

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Speaker 2: get into a top tier law firm. And the message

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Speaker 2: at the time was if you don't get into a

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Speaker 2: top tier law firm, you're not going to do very well.

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Speaker 2: And you had that in your mind, and I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I just kind of kept at it. I think I

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Speaker 2: surrounded myself with people who believed in me, and my

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Speaker 2: parents were incredibly instrumental in that because they thought I

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Speaker 2: was a success. Like they didn't realize or know what

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Speaker 2: a top tier law firm was. All they knew was

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Speaker 2: that their daughter had gotten into law and you know,

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Speaker 2: had kind of fulfilled why they came to Australia. So

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Speaker 2: then ended up it was a really weird story. My

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Speaker 2: now sister in law, my then brother's girlfriend, messaged me

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Speaker 2: and said, Hey, I'm doing some casual work at a

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Speaker 2: boutique law firm. You know, do you want some work experience?

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Speaker 2: And I was like, sure, what do they do? When

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Speaker 2: she said employment law? And I was like, what on

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Speaker 2: God's greenerth is that you never even heard about this thing.

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Speaker 2: What you mean we had it like at UNI, your

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Speaker 2: you know, your core subjects were not employment law, and

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Speaker 2: it was an elective but it didn't sound very entertaining.

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Speaker 1: It's called industrial relations, and I was like, what does

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Speaker 1: that even mean? What does that you say it? But

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Speaker 1: I'm like this around yeah, yeah exactly.

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Speaker 2: So we had no idea and it didn't sound sexy

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Speaker 2: like criminal law, like oh yeah, I'm an employment lawyer.

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Speaker 1: And now I think it's obviously for you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like literally, I'm not going to be famous and

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Speaker 2: defend underbelly people like this, which was obviously the dream

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Speaker 2: at the time. Of course, all of our dream obviously obviously. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: So Nicole was like, yeah, just come and interview and

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Speaker 2: you know, give it a crack. Anyway, turned up to

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Speaker 2: the interview for this firm that I knew, not what

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Speaker 2: they did and not of employment and industrial relations, and

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Speaker 2: did the interview and thought, I mean, one of the

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Speaker 2: things that I have to say I'm very good at

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Speaker 2: is faking confidence, and I think that's been really instrumental

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Speaker 2: in my career. I'm just really good at faking it

348
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Speaker 2: till I make it. So I walked in confident, I'm lowed.

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Speaker 2: So that's not necessarily hard to like project and.

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Speaker 1: Volume is not your challenge. That's not your challenge. Yeap.

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Speaker 2: So had the interview, and then I actually found out

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Speaker 2: some years later that there was two guys that I

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Speaker 2: interviewed with. One wanted to hire me and one didn't.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah. The one who wanted to hire me just

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Speaker 2: kind of he said, I just kind of saw something

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Speaker 2: in you. And the one who didn't want to hire

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Speaker 2: me thought that I was all confidence and nothing else,

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Speaker 2: which is an interesting comment. Wow. Also goes to show

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Speaker 2: that maybe being interviewed by men as an assertive woman

360
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Speaker 2: might come off a certain way.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, I mean, we have a whole question on that,

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Speaker 1: so we'll come back to that for sure.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So got the casual job and there and then

364
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Speaker 2: worked the phones, and really what the job was was

365
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Speaker 2: I did a couple of days a week and that

366
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Speaker 2: was on top of you know, our retail jobs and

367
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Speaker 2: yuinni and whatever, giving advice to retailers about employment conditions,

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Speaker 2: so things like modern awards, the National Employment Standards contracts

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Speaker 2: HR advice effectively. And realized pretty quickly that there was

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Speaker 2: this whole area of law that I didn't know anything about,

371
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Speaker 2: but really kind of liked, like I got to deal

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Speaker 2: with people, I got to you know, I liked the

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Speaker 2: relevance of employment. You know, we all work, so many

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Speaker 2: people don't know their rights, and I you know, found

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Speaker 2: myself feeling quite passionately about it. So did that for

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Speaker 2: a while and then kind of got towards the end

377
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Speaker 2: of our degree, and in my penultimate year, towards the

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Speaker 2: end of my penultimate yea was offered a graduate role, which,

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Speaker 2: you know, as most people know, was like god, I

380
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Speaker 2: don't even know, like it was like the biggest a

381
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Speaker 2: gift on.

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Speaker 1: Earth, like plinicle, like.

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Speaker 2: A secure and role totally, and you know, and got

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Speaker 2: one at a firm that I really liked with people

385
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Speaker 2: I really enjoyed working with. But the catch was I

386
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Speaker 2: had eleven subjects to go, and so I needed to

387
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Speaker 2: do eleven subjects in twelve months.

388
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Speaker 1: That's right, Oh my god, I forgot that.

389
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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I was like, shit, cat, Like, if ever

390
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,920
Speaker 2: there's a time where you've got to really like pull

391
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Speaker 2: your socks up, I hate that saying. Why did I

392
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:24,440
Speaker 2: say that?

393
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:27,359
Speaker 1: Because at we had to pull our socks up all

394
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Speaker 1: the time.

395
00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:34,399
Speaker 2: It's contextual. Yeah, there was ever a time where I

396
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:36,600
Speaker 2: really had to like step up and deliver forre myself

397
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,760
Speaker 2: more than anything, you know. That was the time. So

398
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Speaker 2: I did a summer subject, four semesters two and then

399
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:49,320
Speaker 2: I think four again. Somehow managed to like complete the

400
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,520
Speaker 2: degree and then graduated and then ended up working at

401
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,200
Speaker 2: this law firm. Can I say names on the podcast.

402
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:56,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, if you're comfortable.

403
00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:58,879
Speaker 2: Yeah. The firm's called FCB Workplace Law. It was an

404
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,440
Speaker 2: incredible place for me to loe. They're one of Australia's

405
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,160
Speaker 2: kind of boutique employment and industry relations firms and learned

406
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:06,360
Speaker 2: from really really exceptional lawyers. And one of the other

407
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,600
Speaker 2: things that happened when I started my supervised workplace training,

408
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:11,240
Speaker 2: which is like the first part of being a lawyer,

409
00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,320
Speaker 2: was the firm was kind of like under resourced at

410
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,200
Speaker 2: the time, there being kind of like a staff movement,

411
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:19,360
Speaker 2: which meant that I was also being exposed to work

412
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,040
Speaker 2: that was a well above my pay grade and well

413
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,159
Speaker 2: above my years of experience, and that was terrifying. At

414
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Speaker 2: the time. I was like, literally, fuck, I am going

415
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:32,280
Speaker 2: to ruin someone's life, someone's business, Like why is anyone

416
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,520
Speaker 2: allowing me to do this? This is a bad idea, Guys,

417
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Speaker 2: I don't know what I'm.

418
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Speaker 1: Doing talking about employment law. Why did you employ me?

419
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Speaker 2: Why did you employ me? Terrible idea? You should know

420
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Speaker 2: about it. Like was genuinely felt like I had absolutely

421
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:47,880
Speaker 2: no idea what I was doing. But it was sink

422
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Speaker 2: or swim, and you had to swim, like you just

423
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,560
Speaker 2: you know, you just didn't have a choice, and really

424
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,560
Speaker 2: throwing the deep end, you know, long hours, fifteen hour days,

425
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Speaker 2: eating fucking two minute noodles. My it was literally beige

426
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Speaker 2: at the time. It was like baskets and noodles and toast,

427
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,800
Speaker 2: and like coffee, so much coffee, and nothing.

428
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Speaker 1: About you is beige. That was a really I remember.

429
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Speaker 1: It was a really hard time, just a hard time time.

430
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Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think it was for a lot of us,

431
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Speaker 2: and I also think it was formative for a lot

432
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Speaker 2: of us. Now. I'm certainly not saying that lawyers have

433
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,960
Speaker 2: to work those hours to prove themselves. I think that's nonsense,

434
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,400
Speaker 2: and I think the tide is changing on that most definitely.

435
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,600
Speaker 2: I think people coming through now have a greater appreciation

436
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:29,639
Speaker 2: of work life balance and in a way that we didn't.

437
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:31,399
Speaker 2: We almost feel like we had to do it because

438
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,359
Speaker 2: it was like part of being a lawyer. And I

439
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 2: don't necessarily condone that, but what it certainly did do

440
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,080
Speaker 2: for me was it showed me that I could step

441
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,439
Speaker 2: up and I could deliver, and I could step up

442
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 2: in a world that I didn't always feel like I

443
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:47,639
Speaker 2: belonged in. I mean, I always felt like being a

444
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,240
Speaker 2: lawyer you had to be this kind of like cookie

445
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:55,080
Speaker 2: cutter kind of you had to be quiet in a way, right,

446
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:58,120
Speaker 2: Like we had this image of lawyers, and I certainly

447
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,199
Speaker 2: am not the image. I am brash, I can be

448
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,440
Speaker 2: quite abrasive. I swear a lot like I swear a lot.

449
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:08,399
Speaker 2: I you know, I'm a big personality. I'm a woman,

450
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,880
Speaker 2: and I was entering a world and particularly the industrial

451
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 2: relations side is incredibly male dominated, and you're dealing with

452
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,160
Speaker 2: unions and you know this is not a comment about unions,

453
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 2: but you know that there is this kind of like

454
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 2: male dominance that you have to deal with. And you know,

455
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:25,919
Speaker 2: I wasn't going to be the reserved lawyer that was

456
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,640
Speaker 2: going to cop the shit, and you know, I was outspoken,

457
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 2: and yeah, I just didn't fit a mold and that

458
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 2: was really really hard. But yeah, those first kind of

459
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 2: years showed me that I could really step up, and

460
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 2: that kind of maybe was the beginning of what happened

461
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 2: after my kind of first couple of years as a lawyer.

462
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 1: I think, well, that also makes me really think a

463
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:47,640
Speaker 1: couple of things. Firstly, because you and I have been

464
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:53,160
Speaker 1: through the you know, the big career kind of becoming

465
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:54,919
Speaker 1: a big formative part of our lives. If you're the

466
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,119
Speaker 1: main part of our life, but through a lot of

467
00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 1: self doubt. Often people who don't know I won't have

468
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,120
Speaker 1: seen that, but we've seen each other's absolute breakdowns along

469
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 1: the way. First is that you can push through that.

470
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,679
Speaker 1: But second, something I love about you and why I'm

471
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 1: excited to have you for this particular mini series is

472
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 1: the idea that now knowing everyone listening, knowing how much

473
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,199
Speaker 1: you wanted this for how long and how hard it

474
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 1: was to get there, like the barriers on top of

475
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 1: the normal conventional pathway that you had to take to

476
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,959
Speaker 1: make sure you got into FCB, then you, I mean,

477
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 1: I know you won't blow your own horn, became one

478
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 1: of like the thirty lawyers under thirty. You know, you

479
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 1: won all these awards, you became a senior associate, You

480
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 1: lived up to what you worried you never could. It

481
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 1: would have been very easy for you then to be

482
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,919
Speaker 1: comfortable there, Like once you did conquer one workplace, you

483
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,919
Speaker 1: could have lived there for decades, become a partner and

484
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 1: kind of never moved. But you know, there's a statistic

485
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 1: that's just come out as part of this kind of

486
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,199
Speaker 1: mini series to the background to it is that like

487
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 1: sixty one percent of Australians right now don't want to

488
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 1: change jobs in the next twelve months because we've been

489
00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:00,080
Speaker 1: threatened with so much uncertainty and instability. But I I

490
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,160
Speaker 1: kind of think of it as an opportunity and knowing

491
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,479
Speaker 1: now what's happened to you since then, being headhunted and

492
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 1: like all the things you never thought that could happen,

493
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 1: but also the scariest things that could happen. Why do

494
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 1: you think we are so averse to change? And how

495
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 1: did you then embrace the massive changes that have come

496
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 1: more than once since then? I mean FCB is like

497
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 1: three chapters ago for you. Now, how did you push

498
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 1: through you know, that fear of change?

499
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 2: So the first thing I will say is I hate

500
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 2: change like I can't hate penance, like I fight change

501
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 2: like I'm gonna tell you a story. I were the

502
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 2: same pants to every exam we ever did at Monash

503
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:39,440
Speaker 2: Law and fuck, we did a lot of exams and

504
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 2: I wore the same pants. They were these black cargo

505
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 2: zip off pants. They could be shorts, they could be pants.

506
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:45,880
Speaker 2: Were you feeling hot in the exam? Were you feeling

507
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 2: cold in the exam? Who knows? I will the same pants?

508
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:49,159
Speaker 1: Is there every situation.

509
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 2: I'm so superstitious and I hate change so much that

510
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 2: to me, maintaining control of anything was the easiest way

511
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 2: for me to get through life. In saying that, to

512
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 2: answer the question, I think, why don't people go through

513
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 2: change because it's scary, Because being in a situation that's

514
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 2: known and sure is easier. It's like staying in a

515
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 2: relationship you're not happy in, you're not miserable, it's not toxic,

516
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 2: it's okay. You stay in it because it's easy and

517
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,400
Speaker 2: it's comfortable, and it's known, and the unknown is really

518
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 2: really scary as humans, and I think, particularly after the

519
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 2: last two years, every day has felt unknown. Will we

520
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 2: have restrictions? When we have restrictions, we're borders open, we're

521
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:27,679
Speaker 2: borders clothes. Can I go to that event? Can I

522
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 2: not go to that event is my family okay? Is

523
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 2: my family not? Okay? You know, change is really really scary,

524
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 2: and once though, I think you allow yourself to kind

525
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 2: of just go with it, that becomes easier. And also

526
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 2: I think there needs to be an acceptance that change

527
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 2: can be good. And that took me a really long

528
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 2: time to work out that change is good and change

529
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 2: may bring good and especially I think if you're an

530
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 2: anxious person. I'm an anxious person. So for me, change

531
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 2: is like like affects my mental health sometimes and I'm

532
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 2: very open about that. So I think it is it's

533
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 2: hard for everyone.

534
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: And so how did you kind of like full context

535
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 1: for everyone? Kat then went on to get head hunted

536
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: by Borrel. So then adding your unique perspectives as a

537
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:12,120
Speaker 1: woman in the construction industry is you know, another sort

538
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 1: of layer here. But then god head hunted by Australia Post. Like,

539
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 1: you've just had so many enormous changes within employment law

540
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,640
Speaker 1: and within a you know, one kind of vague category,

541
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 1: but with you know, that's coming back to the entrepreneurial

542
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:32,719
Speaker 1: possibilities to within companies grow exponentially. You've changed complete industries,

543
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 1: like from construction to Australia Posts. Like they are so

544
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 1: diametrically opposed in nature. How did you push through that doubt,

545
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,120
Speaker 1: that anxiety, that hatred of change until you can realize

546
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 1: the benefits in it, Like, how did you get through

547
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 1: those uncomfortable, you know, responses in your body?

548
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 2: I think it started at FCB, if I'm honest, being

549
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 2: able to accept change, And I think it was because

550
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 2: I was surrounded by people, two partners in particular, who

551
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,919
Speaker 2: really backed me and allowed me to back myself. So

552
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 2: I think it started there. I would say where things

553
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 2: really started to work out for me was accepting who

554
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,199
Speaker 2: I was as a person and accepting that I was

555
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 2: not going to be cookie cutter. I was always going

556
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 2: to be who I was. And the second that I

557
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 2: embraced who I was, which is what you see is

558
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 2: what you get kind of things changed for me. Once

559
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 2: I accepted that clients liked me because I was who

560
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 2: I was, that my colleagues liked me because I was

561
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 2: who I was, That I was good at what I

562
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 2: did because I was who I was. Once I stopped

563
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 2: trying to fit this like bullshit mold that I thought

564
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 2: was a lawyer, I actually got really fucking good at

565
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 2: my job because I got I had this different confidence

566
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 2: that was like, I'm not going to sit myself in

567
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 2: a box for you, and no, I actually deserve to

568
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 2: be at that table, and I'm going to demand a

569
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 2: place at that table. So that's kind of where it

570
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 2: changed for me, and I think the kind of critical

571
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 2: part of that was and that's where I kind of

572
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 2: learned to start embracing change and backing myself people believing

573
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 2: in me, having an incredible network around me of people

574
00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 2: like yourself who I've messaged being like, fuck, what am

575
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:00,919
Speaker 2: I doing?

576
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 1: Tell me those on my phone from you.

577
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 2: So then I went into I did a secondment at Borrel,

578
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 2: and then Borrel effectively kind of had having me ask

579
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 2: me to stay on as an in house legal council there.

580
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 2: So I stepped into a different world that was a

581
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 2: huge change for me. All I had known since UNI

582
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 2: was FCB. I did eight years there, from casual to

583
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 2: junior grad to solicitor to associate to senior associate. That's

584
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 2: all I had known. And then I stepped into a

585
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 2: world where that none of that shit matted at all.

586
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 2: The guys at Borrel, the girls at Borrel. Could I

587
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 2: have given two fucks what I was in my previous life.

588
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 2: They were like, you're a legal counsel. Now there's a

589
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 2: whole other range of stakeholders, you have to deal with

590
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 2: a whole other range of considerations. And you're a woman

591
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 2: now in a man's world, like very much in a

592
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 2: man's world. Yeah, And that was really really hard. And

593
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 2: then moving to POST was another change that probably was

594
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 2: the scarier change. I always had a backup plan because

595
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 2: I was on Secconvent to start with. I knew the people,

596
00:28:58,520 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 2: and I knew that if I hated it, I could

597
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 2: kind of like put my safety blanket back on and

598
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 2: go back to FCB, which is what I knew. Post

599
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 2: was entirely different. I was going into a situation where

600
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 2: I'm knew one person, the organization was entirely different. Wasn't

601
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 2: in construction or infrastructure, wasn't private practice. That was really scary.

602
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 2: And actually remember having a conversation with you where I

603
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 2: was like, what am I doing? Do I take this

604
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 2: chance or not? I hate change? Why am I looking

605
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 2: for another change? What's wrong with me? Why can I

606
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 2: not be less ambitious? Why can't I just be happy?

607
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 2: And that was hard. And now the role that I've

608
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 2: just accepted, which is you to start in May was

609
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 2: the hardest decision for me because I've always dealt with

610
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 2: imposter syndrome as a woman. I've never dealt with it

611
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 2: as much as I've dealt with it. Taking this job on,

612
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 2: I don't think, as you know.

613
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: Which is interesting, isn't it? Isn't it? It's like you've

614
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: built a toolkit to deal with that, and yet as

615
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: the stakes get higher, it actually becomes more acute, which

616
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: means you're constantly developing those tools.

617
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 2: And I keep saying to people, you know, I think

618
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 2: I've said this to you where I say, you know,

619
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 2: this is a stretch role for me, and people like,

620
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 2: why do you keep saying that? That means that you're

621
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 2: not backing yourself. So yeah, all the stuff that I've

622
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 2: just said that I learned to do back myself, be myself.

623
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 2: Go into organizations where I'm a cultural fit, where it's

624
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 2: not just them interviewing me, but I'm interviewing them. Have unraveled.

625
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 2: The more kind of senior my roles get and I'm

626
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 2: back to feeling like a woman in a man's world

627
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 2: who isn't qualified enough to be there and questioning my

628
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 2: seat at the table again, which has been an interesting

629
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 2: transformation mentally for me, because I feel like I've come

630
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 2: kind of full circle again and I'm now convincing myself

631
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 2: again you can do this, You can push through this.

632
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 2: Remember the days of eating two minute noodles at your desk.

633
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 2: This is what you wanted, this is what you worked for.

634
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 2: Now is your chance to take this opportunity in a

635
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 2: candidates market. You know, it really is a market at

636
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 2: the moment for people to back themselves and have a crack.

637
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 2: And you've been given this opportunity. Why the fuck are

638
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 2: you not taking it? Q thirty five thousand voice messages

639
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 2: to you.

640
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: Next me in it, catecceity my last few months highlight.

641
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's kind of that's where I'm at at

642
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 2: the moment. But still battling with all the stuff that

643
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 2: we deal with as you know, as women, as candidates,

644
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 2: as people who want to progress their careers, as people

645
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 2: who don't like change. All of those things factor into

646
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 2: decision making, I think absolutely.

647
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: And it is so interesting that you've heard me, I'm

648
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 1: sure you've heard me speak many times about the fact

649
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: that actually, you will get better at mastering self doubt,

650
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 1: you'll get better at pitching yourself and having those conversations.

651
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 1: But as you get like the day that it disappears

652
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: is the day I worry I've become too complacent. It's

653
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: not a bad thing for that self doubt to follow you.

654
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: It just means you're constantly leveling up each time, which

655
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: is why changes is important, so that you don't ever

656
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 1: get like too comfortable that you're not learning or growing

657
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 1: as you grow as a person in the world does

658
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: around you. And the candidates market thing is like the

659
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: point that I really want to have a home for people,

660
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 1: which is it really hasn't ever been a better time

661
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: for you to just make the most of this phenomenon

662
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 1: that is, you know, it's being called the Great boom

663
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 1: because there are more jobs than they have ever been before,

664
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 1: but less candidates and less people applying than they ever

665
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: have been before, So like, why do you think we

666
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: should make the most of it?

667
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 2: You know?

668
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: The quote that I love is when nothing is certain,

669
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: anything is possible, everyone's in Like the uncertainty is universal now,

670
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 1: so it's almost like just ignore that and just go

671
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 1: for like what's the worst that could happen? And then also,

672
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: I know you've had a rejection recently as well, and

673
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: that ties in a lot to you know, not wanting

674
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: to put ourselves out there and even knowing that there's

675
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: a higher chance than ever knowing that that also is

676
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: not the end of the story either. It's just a

677
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: time of like trying lots of things, putting lots of

678
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: you know, little seeds and things out there. Why do

679
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 1: you think we should make the most of this time

680
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: in particular?

681
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 2: Well, I guess firstly because there's so many opportunities at

682
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 2: the moment. So like the role I've just taken, for example,

683
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 2: isn't technically a legal role. It's a role that requires

684
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 2: or I guess, you know, ideally someone will have a

685
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 2: legal background and understand the kind of technical components of ERR,

686
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 2: but doesn't actually require I want to be an ir lawyer.

687
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 2: I just happened to be one, And I think now

688
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 2: is an opportunity, like what I've just done, for people

689
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 2: to kind of go to pivot kind of sideways, like

690
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 2: not necessarily go up in the same kind of a

691
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,239
Speaker 2: corporate ladder that they may have thought, but to use

692
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 2: the skills that they've acquired during the course of their

693
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 2: careers to do something else, to do something they've always

694
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 2: wanted to try, and I just think to myself, what's

695
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 2: the worst that's going to happen? You apply for a job,

696
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 2: you don't get it. Okay, that hurts. I just had

697
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 2: a rejection recently, the first one I've actually ever had

698
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 2: in my life, which sounds so arrogant to say, and

699
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 2: I don't mean it to sound arrogant, but being rejected,

700
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 2: you can take it very, very personally, and it's not personal.

701
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 2: You just weren't the right person for the job. You

702
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 2: were too senior, you were too junior, you were not

703
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 2: you know that you were in a cultural fit. I

704
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 2: think that's a big one, you know, So you know

705
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 2: rejection is hard, But what's the worst that's going to happen.

706
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 2: You're going to get rejected and you'll get over it,

707
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 2: and you've probably got a job to stay at. Anyway,

708
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 2: you're going to get the job, and you have to

709
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 2: consider whether or not you take it. Now. Just because

710
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 2: you get the job doesn't mean you need to take it.

711
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 2: I mean, the way that you interview is really important,

712
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,719
Speaker 2: and the way that you communicate, you know, whether you

713
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 2: accept or reject an offer or negotiate an off is

714
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 2: really important, I think. But you don't need to take

715
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 2: a job just because you get it. So what's the

716
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 2: worst that's going to happen. You have more interview experience,

717
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:12,720
Speaker 2: you get to meet more people, you get to network,

718
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 2: you get to give it a go, and if you

719
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 2: want it, great, and if you don't, then you're back

720
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 2: to where you kind of were.

721
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, you haven't lost anything.

722
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 2: You haven't lost anything. And that's really hard for me

723
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 2: to say again as somebody who hates change and you know,

724
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 2: finds it quite anxiety inducing. But there's really no downside,

725
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 2: especially at the moment, Like there's just so many opportunities

726
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 2: out there for people, and we all have imposter syndrome

727
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 2: and we all have self doubt and we just need

728
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 2: to even if even with that, just give it a crack.

729
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 2: I don't know, my dad always said, and I don't

730
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 2: know if you've ever heard him say this, but like

731
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 2: he always just said to us, do your best, and like,

732
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 2: just do your best, give it a go and see

733
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 2: what happens. And you know, I even say going into

734
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 2: my new job, like I say to my partner all

735
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 2: the time, this could be the best thing I've ever done.

736
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 2: This could be the biggest mistake I've ever made. But

737
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 2: I'm not going to know until I give it a crack,

738
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 2: and what's the worst that's going to happen? Like, we're

739
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,439
Speaker 2: very privileged, I mean in an incredibly privileged position where

740
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 2: I could find another job or I could not work

741
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 2: for a little bit if I had to, like it

742
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 2: wouldn't be great, but like if I had to, so

743
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 2: you know, for people who are able to do so,

744
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 2: it's always worth taking a risk. I think. I say

745
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 2: that as a not risk taker.

746
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 1: Oh my god, bro, that is such good advice. That

747
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 1: question coming back to that idea of what is the

748
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 1: worst that could happen? And there will absolutely be times

749
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: in your life where the worst that could happen is

750
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 1: too much of a risk. There will be times where

751
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 1: you might have a dependent or you might have you know,

752
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 1: whatever circumstances might be there that mean it is too

753
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 1: much of a risk. But if you do ask that

754
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,720
Speaker 1: question and the answer is, I won't lose anything except

755
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 1: maybe a bit of a you know, pride might be hurt,

756
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 1: I might take something personally, it might feel a little

757
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 1: bit icky. Or you apply for all these things and

758
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 1: you suddenly have all these opportunities you never knew you had,

759
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 1: and you can still choose to say no, Like if

760
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: the worst that could happen is that either you say

761
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 1: no or they say no, and like you take a

762
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: few minutes to get over it, but you haven't lost anything.

763
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 2: And everything is a calculated risk, right, So you know,

764
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 2: I think especially as women, and you know, depending on

765
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 2: where you are in your life and what your personal

766
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 2: choices are. By no means to say that all women

767
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 2: want to make the same choices. That's certainly not the case.

768
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 2: But if you are a woman like myself who does

769
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 2: want to have a family and does want to be

770
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 2: a mother and does want to be able to dedicate

771
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 2: time to that, that the considerations and the pros and

772
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 2: cons become different. Again. It's no longer just a career

773
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 2: trajectory and financial you know, your remuneration. It's also what

774
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 2: else do I need to give up? What does my

775
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 2: timing look like? Like timing also becomes really really important,

776
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,399
Speaker 2: and you know there are things that will factor into

777
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,919
Speaker 2: the analysis of is this worth the risk? But you're

778
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 2: not going to know until you undertake the assessment of

779
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 2: whether or not it's worth the risk, Like you're not

780
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 2: going to know until you go through that yes or no.

781
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 2: And I just did this, So this is very fresh

782
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 2: for me. You know, do I leave a job that

783
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 2: I'm in that I'm really enjoying it at the moment,

784
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,240
Speaker 2: with great colleagues, great flexibility, I could have a family,

785
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 2: I can go off and get married, you know whatever.

786
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 2: Or do I take a huge gamble and restart my

787
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 2: matt leave clock effectively and know that maybe I won't

788
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 2: get maternity leave, or maybe it won't be as flexible

789
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 2: in the workplace. You know, I'm going into a very

790
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 2: intense role. Maybe I won't get the flexibility. But it's

791
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 2: just everyone has to make those decisions for themselves. But

792
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 2: you're not going to know whether you can do it

793
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 2: until you sit down and try and do it.

794
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that just is So it's just everything

795
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 1: that sees the A is about the idea that, like

796
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 1: you know, firstly, everyone's equation, everyone's risk matrix is going

797
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 1: to be different, so you really don't have to look

798
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 1: at the way anyone else has done it as long

799
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 1: as you're trying to do the equation at all. Secondly,

800
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 1: I love the idea that you were saying about back

801
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,919
Speaker 1: to rejection. I think it's really important to remember also

802
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 1: that sometimes rejection is just redirecting you, like sometimes you're

803
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 1: getting rejected from a role because it's not not only

804
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: are you not the right cultural fit, it might be

805
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: saving you from going down a pathway that isn't then

806
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 1: for you. I think that's also something. And then finally

807
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: on the whole idea of like your risk matrix, it's actually,

808
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: like you just said before, the job you have right

809
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: now is fulfilling. You've got great opportunities, You've got a

810
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 1: great maternity lead policy. You know, all these things for

811
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 1: two people who have for different reasons, like with your

812
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 1: parents being you know, migrants and me being adopted. We've

813
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: had this like really overh sense of gratitude for a

814
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 1: really long time. Sometimes the hesitation of the reason Ozzies

815
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 1: don't want to change jobs is also because they feel

816
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 1: like it's ungrateful to want something more than something that's good.

817
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,800
Speaker 1: But you don't have to settle for good, like otherwise

818
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: we would all just live this like fine life. You'd

819
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 1: never grow, you'd never try anything else. Just because you're

820
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 1: happy where you are, it doesn't mean you can't at

821
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 1: least put your toe in a different water. Yeah, like

822
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: you said, you don't have to say yes if you

823
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:39,800
Speaker 1: get the job.

824
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:41,720
Speaker 2: And gone other days. You know. I had an interesting

825
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 2: conversation with my parents recently where I told them about

826
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 2: the new role and I was like, Oh, I got

827
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 2: this really exciting opportunity to be an IR manager on

828
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 2: this new enormous ten billion dollar project. This is what

829
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 2: I'm doing. And the response was, we're happy for you,

830
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 2: but didn't you just start a new job? Why not

831
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 2: stay in that job? Like this idea that you have

832
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 2: to stay in a job like our parents did for ten,

833
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 2: twenty thirty, forty fifty years, Like those days are gone.

834
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 2: Now there is so many opportunities out there, and opportunities

835
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 2: look different to us, you know. Like to your point

836
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 2: about comparison, I spent the last probably five or six

837
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 2: years comparing myself to like so many of the incredible

838
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 2: people you've had on the podcast, for example, being like,

839
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 2: why can't I be an entrepreneur? Why can't Why did

840
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 2: I not have that idea? Why is this still my trajectory?

841
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 2: It's no longer like it's not cool or it's not

842
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 2: you know, am I really fulfilling? You know? What I

843
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 2: was put on this earth to do. God, that sounds

844
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 2: like so wanky, But like you know what I mean, Like,

845
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 2: it is true my life goal, you know, by not

846
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 2: being an entrepreneur or whatever. But like I think also

847
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,760
Speaker 2: like comparing yourself to someone who's not on your path

848
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 2: is really difficult in our day and age. Like, yes,

849
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 2: we have more opportunities, but we also have more opportunities

850
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 2: to compare ourselves to people who aren't actually doing the

851
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 2: same thing as us. So totally, I don't know if

852
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 2: that makes any sense, but like, do you know what

853
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:56,839
Speaker 2: I mean?

854
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 1: Oh? Absolutely, And I think that's one thing. I think

855
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: that is one thing, like the hustle culture and like

856
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 1: the total democratization of choice and influence and business ideas

857
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 1: has meant where a generation where, you know, becoming an

858
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 1: entrepreneur and starting a business like startup culture has been

859
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: really hailed and glorified as like the way to happiness because.

860
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 2: You totally.

861
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: Does not suit everyone. Absolutely does not suit everyone. The

862
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: reason why I'm so excited about it is because the

863
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 1: like pathway of an entrepreneur is there's no greater than

864
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 1: less than equal to whatever. It's just like some people

865
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 1: aren't suited to running their own business. It was liberating

866
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 1: for me, but it could be totally restrictive for others,

867
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 1: like some people don't thrive in that environment, and you've

868
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 1: been able to like change industries, probably at a much

869
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: greater level of change than someone who was running their

870
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 1: own business. They couldn't have probably gone from like construction

871
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 1: to Australia posts like you know, you're able to make

872
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:03,359
Speaker 1: massive changes, massive growth opportunities within companies and focus on

873
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,240
Speaker 1: the skill that you have rather than being an accountant

874
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 1: and being a marketing person. I'm doing all the things

875
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 1: at once. I think you'd hate that.

876
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:12,319
Speaker 2: I know very despite comparing myself to numerous people who

877
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 2: run their own businesses, I know I could never run

878
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,399
Speaker 2: my own business, and not that I could not. It's

879
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,879
Speaker 2: not a competency thing. I don't want to. I really

880
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 2: actually love what I do, Like I am a proper

881
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 2: eir nerd like I read cases on aeroplanes at seven

882
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 2: o'clock in the morning, like it's discussed you do.

883
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 1: I love how much you love it and how much

884
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 1: you never knew you would love it.

885
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 2: I get such a kick out of it. I'm really

886
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 2: lucky to be in a profession where you know, I

887
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,319
Speaker 2: can be myself, I can deal with people. I can

888
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 2: you know, be you know, intelligent, and also, you know,

889
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 2: the interesting thing about being in my space as a

890
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 2: woman is you're a surprise packet, Like they don't really

891
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,399
Speaker 2: see you coming a lot of the time, which is great.

892
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 2: But I think if people are like me, if you

893
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 2: really love what you do, don't worry about being an entrepreneur.

894
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 2: But now is your time? Really, like genuinely twenty twenty two,

895
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,359
Speaker 2: I think is the time for you to either back

896
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,800
Speaker 2: yourself and take a risk in what you're doing, or

897
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 2: back yourself and take a risk in something adjacent to

898
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 2: what you're doing and just try something else on and

899
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 2: see what happens. I mean, unless you're really happy where

900
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 2: you are, and then like stay there, like sure, tell

901
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 2: y if you've been entertaining the idea of like do

902
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 2: I don't? I like, now is really the time to

903
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 2: have a go, Like I'm trying to build a team

904
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:23,879
Speaker 2: at the moment under me, and like we can't find

905
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 2: enough people to hire, like it really is a candidate's market.

906
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 1: There you go, Lovely yighborhood. You all know how excited

907
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 1: I get about life unraveling in chapters and how uncertainty

908
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 1: is the greatest platform for opportunity. After a few tough

909
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 1: years the great job boom is upon us, and there

910
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:43,719
Speaker 1: has never been a better time to start the next

911
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 1: step in your path. Yay. We talk at length on

912
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 1: this show about the obstacles to change, and the statistics

913
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:54,359
Speaker 1: are real. Forty five percent, nearly half of Aussie's are

914
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 1: worried their skills and resume won't stuck up against other Aussies.

915
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,840
Speaker 1: Fifty nine percent are worried that if they changed jobs,

916
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 1: it might not be the right role or company for them.

917
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: But if you let your mind worry that there's a

918
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,760
Speaker 1: risk it won't work out, logic consists that you must

919
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 1: also accept that it could also work out better than

920
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 1: you had ever dreamed. Plus, the numbers are on your side.

921
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 1: In March, job ads on SEQ were up thirty two

922
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 1: percent compared to the same time last year and fifty

923
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 1: one percent compared to pre pandemic levels, but job applications

924
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: per job ad are down forty two percent compared to

925
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 1: pre pandemic levels. So there are more jobs but less

926
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 1: competition than ever before. So if you're looking to change

927
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 1: Pathia's head on over to seek and take advantage of

928
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 1: the great job boom. Also for those who are considering

929
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 1: putting themselves forward, for something. I think we are not

930
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: always the best at pitching ourselves, if not other worst

931
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 1: at pitching ourselves, Like you and I always struggle with that,

932
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 1: are spoken at length about it. How have you learnt

933
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 1: to be able to get a bit more comfortable with

934
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:05,919
Speaker 1: putting your best foot forward so that you don't miss

935
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: out on something that is meant for you just because

936
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 1: you are uncomfortable, you know, with the language of like

937
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 1: blowing your own horn. You know, we live in a

938
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: really tall puppy syndrome infected landscape. And plus self doubt

939
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 1: plus imposter syndrome, plus being a woman, plus being an overthinker,

940
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,240
Speaker 1: you know, all of those things. Is there any advice

941
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:29,799
Speaker 1: for like your CV or organizing meetings with someone who

942
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: might put you forward for a job, Like, how do

943
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 1: you take advantage of it without feeling icky about putting

944
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:35,840
Speaker 1: yourself you know, pitching yourself?

945
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:37,839
Speaker 2: I mean really, I'd just like love to walk into

946
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 2: an interview and be like I'm cute and I'm really

947
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 2: nice and I'm really entertaining, like Hiami, love me, pay me,

948
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 2: like That's what I want to do. But yeah, no,

949
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 2: you can't do that, and interviewing is really tricky. Selling

950
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 2: yourself is really hard and as I think women in particular,

951
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 2: My god, I've raised the woman thing a lot, but like,

952
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:57,800
Speaker 2: obviously that's my experience. Obviously it's my strange. I think

953
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 2: it's hard because I think, like you said, in Australia,

954
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 2: we have this tall poppy syndrome things, so there's a

955
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 2: fine line between selling yourself and being arrogant, and you

956
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 2: don't want to come across as arrogant or we have

957
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 2: this like thing inouse society about not being arrogant and

958
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 2: selling yourself. My tips are be who you are. That's

959
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 2: the first thing, like a like a cute, pared down

960
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 2: version of who you are, Like I'm not entirely in

961
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 2: myself in an interview, Like let's be honest, but be

962
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:28,440
Speaker 2: who you are, know your worth, know what things you're

963
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 2: good at, and also be honest, like that's my biggest thing.

964
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 2: Do not pretend to know something, not know something in

965
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 2: an interview, because you will be found out. Like that's

966
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 2: my and I say that as both an employment lawyer

967
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 2: and as someone who has interviewed a lot, like calm down,

968
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 2: like we're gonna know if you're lying, But be honest

969
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 2: with people you know, like I walked into this inter

970
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 2: and said to them, I've never managed a project like this.

971
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 2: This is well outside of my scope. But here is

972
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 2: why I think I can do it. And just put

973
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 2: yourself forward. And like we said, the worst thing that's

974
00:45:57,600 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 2: going to happen is they're going to reject you. The

975
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 2: other thing I would say is do your recent make

976
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 2: sure you research the company, make sure you research the people.

977
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 2: It's really not that hard. We all sit on our

978
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 2: phones all the bloody time, jump on LinkedIn, have a look

979
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 2: at people, and know why you want the job. And

980
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 2: I think if you do genuinely want the job, you'll

981
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 2: be able to convey why you want it much easier.

982
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 2: But yeah, for me, the big one is be yourself.

983
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 2: Understand yourself, like, understand what your strengths and weaknesses are genuinely,

984
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 2: not in like a wanky way, you know, not like

985
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:25,799
Speaker 2: I'm really good with people, like great, but like how

986
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 2: does that apply specific?

987
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: Yeah?

988
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I think, oh god, my big piece

989
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 2: of advice is James is gonna hate me for saying this.

990
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 2: Be disagreeable, like, especially if you're a woman. Yeah, be disagreeable.

991
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 2: You should not be grateful someone's given you a job,

992
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:46,839
Speaker 2: like I mean, yeah, be grateful because you're being given

993
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 2: an opportunity, but you deserve that. If you're given a job,

994
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,320
Speaker 2: you deserve that role. You've proven yourself already, so don't

995
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 2: just take whatever is given to you, Like back yourself,

996
00:46:56,200 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 2: negotiate to ask questions. It's I always think that one

997
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 2: of the things that we forget is candidates is that

998
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,319
Speaker 2: like they're not just interviewing you, you're interviewing them as well,

999
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:06,839
Speaker 2: Like they need to be right for you. So do

1000
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 2: your research, be yourself, be honest, back yourself, ask questions.

1001
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 2: Has that answered the question? I don't know if I'm

1002
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:14,399
Speaker 2: not so much.

1003
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 1: I think there you go, you're already like, did I

1004
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:18,879
Speaker 1: even answer the question? Was it good enough? But absolutely

1005
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: you nailed it.

1006
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 2: It was.

1007
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 1: It's so true. I think we find it, particularly as women. Yeah,

1008
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 1: really hard to balance that really awkward line between assertiveness

1009
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 1: and likability and then particularly being someone like me. I'm

1010
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 1: like so like, I hate confrontation. I need everyone to

1011
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 1: like me. But it's really hard then to say what

1012
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 1: you want because you don't want to, you know, muddy

1013
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 1: the waters. You don't want to tip the boat. You

1014
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 1: don't upset anyone.

1015
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 2: But I think there's also a fine line between you know,

1016
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 2: being disagreeable and being confrontational, being assertive and being aggressive,

1017
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:54,759
Speaker 2: and I think it's finding where your line is. Like

1018
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 2: I know, for example, that my delivery can come across

1019
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 2: as quite aggressive, so I've worked on that kind of

1020
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:00,799
Speaker 2: over the years, so I can still be myself but

1021
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,240
Speaker 2: come across in asertive rather than aggressive kind of way.

1022
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 2: And I think we need to change our mindsets as well,

1023
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:10,359
Speaker 2: Like asking for what you deserve doesn't make you confrontational

1024
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 2: or aggressive, it makes you knowing your self worth. Like

1025
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:15,400
Speaker 2: I know I am good at what I do. This

1026
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:17,719
Speaker 2: is the salary that I want or the conditions that

1027
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 2: I want, and if you're not going to offer that,

1028
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,800
Speaker 2: then okay, that's fine. But either we're going to negotiate

1029
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 2: on something else or it's not the right role for me.

1030
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 2: That doesn't make you confrontational, it just makes you you.

1031
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 1: Yeah. And another thing I think that happens is like

1032
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:35,880
Speaker 1: you know, coming back to you saying it's okay to

1033
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:38,360
Speaker 1: say no if you get an offer. I think sometimes

1034
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 1: we're flattered by the bare minimum, Like we get flattered

1035
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 1: that we've been asked to do something, so then we

1036
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 1: feel like, well, I should do it because I was

1037
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 1: asked without ever asking, Wait, do I actually want that? Like,

1038
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:51,759
Speaker 1: There's been plenty of things that I've been asked to

1039
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:53,919
Speaker 1: do that I've just it's almost been an automatic yes,

1040
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 1: just because I'm flattered by the offer.

1041
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 2: And that comes down to that gratitude thing.

1042
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm like, ill, it's not anything in line

1043
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 1: with what I want to do, what I'm good at,

1044
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:07,280
Speaker 1: what I enjoyed, But for some reason, that flattery overrides.

1045
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:10,439
Speaker 2: And women do that more than men. I think there's

1046
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 2: a statistic about women who are disagreeable when it comes

1047
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:16,959
Speaker 2: to like looking for roles, and how much more likely

1048
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 2: they are to get a higher salary or better terms

1049
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,319
Speaker 2: and conditions than women who just accept the first offer

1050
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:22,719
Speaker 2: that's made to them. And I think part of the

1051
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 2: reason I've managed to be successful. I've never said that

1052
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 2: out loud.

1053
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 1: I'm so proud of you. I have never heard you

1054
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 1: say that ever.

1055
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 2: Oh God, it's like therapy, whatst.

1056
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 1: Extraordinarily baby, It's you just had me voice memos all

1057
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 1: the time.

1058
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:45,400
Speaker 2: That's like part of the reason that I've managed to

1059
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 2: be successful. I mean, God, I've said it twice that

1060
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:58,440
Speaker 2: I'm disagreeable. Yeah, James, I can tell you about He's like,

1061
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 2: oh yeah, let's talk about being bloodied disagreeable. Is there

1062
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:03,840
Speaker 2: a day that goes by that you're not going to

1063
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:05,279
Speaker 2: disagree with something? I was like, do you want a

1064
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 2: guess person? If you want a guess person, I'm not

1065
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,799
Speaker 2: your gal, but you're married to someone else.

1066
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: That's why you are such a big inspiration for me,

1067
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:16,439
Speaker 1: because I'm not like that by default, and I need

1068
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:18,360
Speaker 1: to be like that sometimes. And you need to surround

1069
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 1: yourself with people who emulate the things that you don't

1070
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 1: and who will help you guide you to like, not

1071
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 1: change who you are, but fill the gaps of the

1072
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: areas where perhaps you're disadvantaging yourself by not just working

1073
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:33,800
Speaker 1: on it. You can work on yourself without changing yourself fundamentally.

1074
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 1: It's okay to be like you know, I think sometimes

1075
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 1: we're very all or nothing. We're like, oh, I need

1076
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 1: to be more loud, so then you totally become someone

1077
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 1: you're not. You don't need to do that. You just

1078
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 1: maybe need to think about where you're losing out because

1079
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 1: of something, and like and Taylor it a little bit

1080
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 1: so that you're not missing out. You have given such valuable,

1081
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 1: extraordinary advice, but it would also be absolutely remossis me

1082
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:58,919
Speaker 1: on this show in particular not to ask a non

1083
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 1: work from lated question. All So, before we wrap up,

1084
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 1: how important is it for you to cultivate your identity

1085
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:06,320
Speaker 1: outside of work?

1086
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 2: I e?

1087
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:11,400
Speaker 1: What is your playta? And this is particularly relevant because

1088
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 1: you do work in an industry like many where your

1089
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 1: spare time to cultivate that side of yourself isn't plentiful.

1090
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 1: Your flexibility to do that isn't as easily, you know,

1091
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 1: easy as it might be for someone who does work

1092
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: for themselves. But it's still incredibly important. So how do

1093
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:29,720
Speaker 1: you do that? And who are you like outside of work?

1094
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:32,880
Speaker 2: Who were my outside of work? Maybe you should answer

1095
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:33,320
Speaker 2: this question.

1096
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 1: I know a delight, a pure joy, bitter Elvis in

1097
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:40,760
Speaker 1: there loves the dance floor.

1098
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 2: I do. Actually that is one of my play ta things.

1099
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 2: I love a dance for I hate myself the next

1100
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 2: day after a big night, but also feel like I

1101
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 2: really do need it. That is one of my big things.

1102
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 2: I'm a big social person. So my play day, I mean,

1103
00:51:57,600 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 2: the first thing would be yeah, friends and family, you

1104
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:01,839
Speaker 2: guys feel my happy cup. I don't have a lot

1105
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,719
Speaker 2: of time to see people, and I don't have a

1106
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 2: lot of time to play really, but when I do,

1107
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:12,240
Speaker 2: I try and make the most of every kind of second.

1108
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 2: So the first one, if I may, would definitely be

1109
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 2: hanging out with my friends and family, even if it's

1110
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 2: in little doses, I definitely I walk away feeling revived

1111
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:22,680
Speaker 2: in a way that nothing else kind of does that

1112
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 2: for me. That's the first one. The second one is

1113
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 2: I bloody love reality television, Like, oh I got to

1114
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 2: know this disgusting, disgusting way, Like I could watch reality

1115
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:38,399
Speaker 2: TV all weekend and with like zero shame attached. When

1116
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 2: I met James, he was just like, oh god, reality television,

1117
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,440
Speaker 2: Like don't you just how do you watch this? And

1118
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:47,839
Speaker 2: I said to him, my job is so intense. All

1119
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:49,840
Speaker 2: I want to do when I have a second to

1120
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:51,880
Speaker 2: watch TV is to tune out. I don't want to

1121
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:55,319
Speaker 2: watch Bloody the movie Tenet that I have to like

1122
00:52:55,880 --> 00:53:00,319
Speaker 2: google what they hell? Just you watch for three hours? Yeah,

1123
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 2: I've watched the movie twice now I still don't fucking

1124
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 2: understand it. I just I don't want to think. I

1125
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 2: just want something that's like entertaining. I like people watching,

1126
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 2: So yeah, I love reality TV. I love to cook.

1127
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 2: My God, I love to cook cookings like meditation for me.

1128
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 2: I love throwing it dinner party, so when I move

1129
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,359
Speaker 2: back to Melbourne, we can have lots of dinner parties. Yes,

1130
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:21,439
Speaker 2: it's so exciting. I love event planning, which people think

1131
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 2: is sick and like.

1132
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:24,799
Speaker 1: Seditionive sood at, so good.

1133
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:27,360
Speaker 2: I love an event plan I love planning other people's

1134
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:28,680
Speaker 2: events and my own events.

1135
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:33,239
Speaker 1: You have been a bridesmaid for like eighty five thousand people.

1136
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, six six times, actually close to eighty five thousand,

1137
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:40,239
Speaker 2: Like it's really close, but like it's close.

1138
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:42,840
Speaker 1: It's in the ballpark in the general vicinity of s

1139
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 1: eighty five thousand. Yeah, but you've planned about eighty five

1140
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 1: thousand events for those people.

1141
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 2: I've also planned about eighty five thousand of my own

1142
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:51,880
Speaker 2: in the lead up to getting married. It's like an extravagance.

1143
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:53,920
Speaker 2: It's like I'm some kind of I think I'm royalty.

1144
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 2: I don't. I just love getting people together, and like

1145
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:00,160
Speaker 2: I think it just ties in with my life of

1146
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:01,920
Speaker 2: being with friends and family, Like it all just kind

1147
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 2: of ties in. And the other thing I love doing

1148
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:07,400
Speaker 2: yet so cooking, having a night out, love a glass wine,

1149
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:10,000
Speaker 2: I love reading, and I think one of the benefits well,

1150
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 2: there was a few kind of silver linings to COVID

1151
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 2: for me, but one of them was reinvigorating my love

1152
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:17,400
Speaker 2: of reading and not like on a tablet like I

1153
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 2: can't deal with kindles and showed like a book like

1154
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 2: a phissy paper book, the paper, the smell. I don't know,

1155
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 2: it's nerdy thing. Maybe I love the smell of the book.

1156
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:28,360
Speaker 2: I love with bookstore. I love spending hours like walking

1157
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 2: around a bookstore.

1158
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 1: Oh my whole like everything I earned in COVID was bookstore.

1159
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:37,839
Speaker 2: Literally. I love the book and rearranging it onto like

1160
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 2: a different.

1161
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 1: You are like my visual merchandiser all over the country.

1162
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 2: It's so many talents lawyer by Davy and by night. Yeah. So,

1163
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 2: and I love reading. I'm I'm an anxious person and

1164
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 2: I just find that it calms my brain. It's certain

1165
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 2: kinds of books, like a thriller disgusting. Why does that

1166
00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:57,320
Speaker 2: work for my anxiety? Do not know? It's like watching

1167
00:54:57,400 --> 00:54:59,759
Speaker 2: like a crime show and I'm just like go to

1168
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:02,240
Speaker 2: bed and sleep like a baby afterwards, which is so weird.

1169
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:05,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know you're speaking my language the same way

1170
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 1: that James to you is like IR reality TV. Nick

1171
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:10,080
Speaker 1: is like, E, why do you watch Serial Killers to

1172
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:12,480
Speaker 1: go to sleep? I'm like, you know what, don't question

1173
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:14,880
Speaker 1: your ya, don't question it, just let me go with it.

1174
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:19,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you're reading TV people, that's it. I do

1175
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:21,839
Speaker 2: some self care stuff, but like, honestly, I could like

1176
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:23,879
Speaker 2: never get a facial and be fine if I got

1177
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 2: to see my friends and family and read a book

1178
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:28,719
Speaker 2: and cook a meal and you know, like that they're

1179
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:30,799
Speaker 2: the things that make me happy. And I've become better

1180
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:34,760
Speaker 2: at doing those things over time. I think I didn't

1181
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:36,920
Speaker 2: at the start of my career disasters own. That was

1182
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:38,759
Speaker 2: like there was like zero cat time. It was like

1183
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 2: must burnout, must work harder, must be Harvey specter, female form.

1184
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 1: But that's part of it, right, It's like your part.

1185
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:53,399
Speaker 1: THEA is that it's starting out not knowing what you're

1186
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:56,920
Speaker 1: doing in any area and then slowly, slowly, bit by bit,

1187
00:55:57,000 --> 00:55:58,960
Speaker 1: figuring out what works for you and then doing it

1188
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:00,759
Speaker 1: and it I mean, well, well, you know, I suck

1189
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:01,880
Speaker 1: at it. The first thing I said when I got

1190
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:05,400
Speaker 1: on this call was I am so depleted, Like I

1191
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:08,759
Speaker 1: spend my entire life telling other people not to do that.

1192
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:11,760
Speaker 1: And then we rock up and we're like, so, I'm Michelle,

1193
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:16,800
Speaker 1: I'm a human, hay me. But that's like, that's being human.

1194
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 1: I feel like it's better to present reminding everyone that

1195
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 1: we don't all get it right all the time.

1196
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 2: No, and I definitely don't get it right all the time.

1197
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:25,920
Speaker 2: And I have lots and lots of breakdowns. I mean,

1198
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 2: one of the things that has gotten me through my

1199
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:30,759
Speaker 2: career has been crying a lot. Just get it out.

1200
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 2: I have a crying corner at home, like you know

1201
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:34,000
Speaker 2: that scene of the Symptoms where it's like this is

1202
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 2: where I come to cry. That's literally like, yeah, I

1203
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:42,279
Speaker 2: just think we all need to make time for ourselves though,

1204
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:45,319
Speaker 2: because I actually think being a better version of you

1205
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 2: socially or or whatever socially looks like to somebody some

1206
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:51,840
Speaker 2: people don't like people makes you a better professional as well,

1207
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 2: and gives you time and space to think about what

1208
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:56,080
Speaker 2: you want to do and what your next step is

1209
00:56:56,120 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 2: and who you are and you know, all of those

1210
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 2: existential crisis things that again, when we go back to

1211
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:03,640
Speaker 2: all the time we do.

1212
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:06,720
Speaker 1: Actually, so guys, one of our playsta in our little group,

1213
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 1: which the weirdest thing I'm not in their year level,

1214
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:12,080
Speaker 1: like I just kind of got to do though it's

1215
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 1: so weird, Like I nearly went to your reunion, not mine.

1216
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 1: It was so weird. Anyway, there's like a group of

1217
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:19,200
Speaker 1: us and they're all in one year level. I was

1218
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 1: ear below, but I just kind of like, I don't know,

1219
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:22,880
Speaker 1: just got ad opt into the group. And one of

1220
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:24,960
Speaker 1: the things we love to talk about because we all

1221
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:28,840
Speaker 1: have like these personas that our nerdiness doesn't fully fledge,

1222
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:33,040
Speaker 1: like it's not fully fledgedly fledgingly out and about. But

1223
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:35,840
Speaker 1: when we get together, like just something about it comes out.

1224
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:39,080
Speaker 1: And at your bridal shower the other night, we all

1225
00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:41,560
Speaker 1: just were like, you know what, now is the time

1226
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:46,360
Speaker 1: to discuss space as a concept. Let's talk about space,

1227
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:50,480
Speaker 1: yea space time distance like always the existential crisis, but

1228
00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 1: we have this super intellectual rationalization of all the things

1229
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 1: we feel and it goes for hours hours.

1230
00:57:56,280 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 2: And then easily flip into a non intellectual conversation. Absolutely

1231
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 2: also that, yeah, that's kind of play the yay stuff though,

1232
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 2: Like that's the stuff that makes me happy and the

1233
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:08,120
Speaker 2: stuff that I need in my life, you know, I like.

1234
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:09,800
Speaker 1: To get in the space.

1235
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:13,240
Speaker 2: Cuts so excited for their new show I can't even

1236
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 2: tell you.

1237
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 1: I'm like, god, I know I don't relate, but I

1238
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:16,919
Speaker 1: love that for you, good girl.

1239
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:19,560
Speaker 2: I'm god. I love them so much. Like why why

1240
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 2: someone actually said to me? Where was I when someone

1241
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 2: was like you look at me like Kim Kartashi, And

1242
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 2: I was.

1243
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:26,440
Speaker 1: Like did you die?

1244
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:28,800
Speaker 2: Like literally, I told the lady I wanted to marry

1245
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:30,640
Speaker 2: her in a bathroom. I was in a bathroom somewhere

1246
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 2: for sure.

1247
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. Nice.

1248
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 2: That tends to me where I have these conversations. Yeah, hot,

1249
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 2: but reality TV. See this is my reality TV thing.

1250
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 2: I played a gay.

1251
00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:43,080
Speaker 1: I love it.

1252
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:45,440
Speaker 2: Oh, I have to. I actually wrote them down. Do

1253
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 2: you want me to read them to you?

1254
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:47,680
Speaker 1: Yes? Please?

1255
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 2: Okay, I have too. One is very like career based,

1256
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:55,200
Speaker 2: and I think I've sat it like four trillion times.

1257
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 2: All these courts of people are gonna be like fuck, oh,

1258
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:58,720
Speaker 2: please stop saying that, but I'm going to say it again.

1259
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:02,680
Speaker 2: And one is like what I live my personal life by. Okay,

1260
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 2: so my career one is don't talk yourself out of

1261
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:07,360
Speaker 2: the rooms. You have the right to be. That's a

1262
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 2: big one. I love my favorite. You deserve if you

1263
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 2: are there, you deserve a right to be. There. I

1264
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 2: say this to James all the time and he thinks

1265
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 2: I'm like Oprah. I still love Oprah, But yeah, I

1266
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 2: think that's a that's really it's a really powerful quote.

1267
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:21,160
Speaker 2: If you are in a room, or you think you

1268
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 2: deserve to be in a room, be in the room.

1269
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's one. I also love that. You and

1270
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:30,080
Speaker 1: I like we either say trillion, gazillion or five. There's

1271
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:32,560
Speaker 1: like no numbers in between for us. There's only like

1272
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 1: I've said it one trillion times or two times. Of course,

1273
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:37,920
Speaker 1: it's either all or I.

1274
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 2: Say all the time. Like never, I have never narrator

1275
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:45,880
Speaker 2: she has many times, but you Never's like, why are

1276
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 2: you so extreme? I was like, I don't know, but again,

1277
00:59:48,560 --> 00:59:50,480
Speaker 2: you know what, if you don't like it, you can leave.

1278
00:59:50,560 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 2: No one's forcing him to marry again with the extremism.

1279
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:00,920
Speaker 1: It down could just say.

1280
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:03,640
Speaker 2: And anything else you're literally you go straight to if

1281
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:04,720
Speaker 2: you don't like it, you can leave.

1282
01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, we can get a divorce before we're even married.

1283
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 2: Literally, sound like I have a very unhealthy it's a

1284
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 2: very healthy relationship. Everybody.

1285
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 1: It's just we're so excited for you to get married.

1286
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:15,240
Speaker 2: Oh my god, stop it. I know we haven't even

1287
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:20,440
Speaker 2: mentioned that. Everyone. Seventh day, Okay, wedding extravaganza.

1288
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:24,120
Speaker 1: It'll be splashed all over the newspapers. Everyone will see it.

1289
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 1: It's like it's like newspaper.

1290
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 2: My parents have already discussed this. It's stop it. I

1291
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:30,200
Speaker 2: can't excited.

1292
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 1: I'm too excited.

1293
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 2: So to all your listeners who are readers of the

1294
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:38,600
Speaker 2: Neil Scores Moss, yeah, well.

1295
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:40,240
Speaker 1: They're also all going to say if my social media

1296
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:46,160
Speaker 1: will be breaking plates for weeks after.

1297
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:46,000
Speaker 2: So fun. You can just go.

1298
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 1: It's very not related to your wedding. I'm just going

1299
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 1: to do it because I like very cathartic.

1300
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:53,120
Speaker 2: Like if you've ever been to a smashroom, you know

1301
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:54,920
Speaker 2: how good you feel after a smashroom. That's how you

1302
01:00:54,960 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 2: can be in to breaking plates excited. I took a

1303
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:02,440
Speaker 2: baseball back to a washing machine and it was literally

1304
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:04,680
Speaker 2: ill let out some energy I don't even know I had.

1305
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:13,120
Speaker 2: James's are you okay? My other quote is and another

1306
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:14,600
Speaker 2: one that I like love a lot, and I know

1307
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:17,920
Speaker 2: you've probably mentioned a few times this is not groundbreaking.

1308
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:21,200
Speaker 2: Is the Maya Angelou quote. The people will forget what

1309
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:23,840
Speaker 2: you said, people forget what you did, but people will

1310
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:25,880
Speaker 2: never forget how you made them feel. My big thing

1311
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 2: in life is anytime I see somebody, how do I

1312
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:30,680
Speaker 2: leave that person?

1313
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:33,400
Speaker 1: We're friends?

1314
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just think the people that I now have

1315
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:38,200
Speaker 2: in my life in my thirties are all so important

1316
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:42,160
Speaker 2: to me. Do I leave you feeling happy and loved

1317
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:46,680
Speaker 2: and supported and heard and all of those things? And

1318
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:48,520
Speaker 2: if I don't, then I haven't done my job as

1319
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:51,520
Speaker 2: a friend or a sister or a child or whatever. Right.

1320
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:54,920
Speaker 2: I also carry that into my professional life to some degree.

1321
01:01:55,000 --> 01:02:00,880
Speaker 2: Sometimes I'm a bitch, but you know that's balance. But yeah,

1322
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:03,720
Speaker 2: they're my two probably my favorite quotes that I genuinely

1323
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:05,640
Speaker 2: I live by, And the first one, in particular when

1324
01:02:05,640 --> 01:02:08,640
Speaker 2: it comes to work given this mini series, is one

1325
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:12,080
Speaker 2: that I constantly repeat to myself in situations where I

1326
01:02:12,120 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 2: feel like I have imposter syndrome, which is often like,

1327
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:17,280
Speaker 2: you have a right to be here, be in the room,

1328
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 2: be present, deliver what you know that you can deliver,

1329
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 2: and walk out knowing that you've done that.

1330
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, my love. This was the first of

1331
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:27,360
Speaker 1: the episodes of the miniseries that I've recorded, and I

1332
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:29,080
Speaker 1: kind of feel like I can leave it there, like

1333
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:31,320
Speaker 1: I kind of feel like you were just so amazing

1334
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:34,600
Speaker 1: and yeah, it's just it's a mini series of one.

1335
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:35,760
Speaker 1: Everyone just.

1336
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 2: Back next week drunk with more lectures than advice.

1337
01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:46,080
Speaker 1: We will pick a different theme every week within the

1338
01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:47,840
Speaker 1: mini series and that will be the show.

1339
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:51,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, next week, Yelvis, let's talk about moments where your

1340
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:54,120
Speaker 2: mom your mom let you go to primary school? Dress

1341
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:54,600
Speaker 2: is Elvis?

1342
01:02:54,760 --> 01:03:01,880
Speaker 1: Let's talk an in depth analysis by CZA. Thank you

1343
01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:05,320
Speaker 1: so much, my darling. This was extraordinary. You are an

1344
01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:07,400
Speaker 1: amazing human being. I'm so grateful to have you in

1345
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:09,680
Speaker 1: my life and so so grateful that you could share

1346
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:11,400
Speaker 1: so much of your wisdom with the apehood.

1347
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:13,200
Speaker 2: Very grateful to be here, so thank you