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Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma mea podcast.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Parenting out Loud. This is the podcast for

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Speaker 2: people who don't always listen to parenting podcasts. So if

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Speaker 2: parents are thinking about it, we are talking about it.

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Speaker 1: I'm Monique Bowley, I'm Amelia Lester, and I am Stacy Higgs.

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Speaker 2: And coming up on today's show.

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Speaker 1: Modern Parenting, have we got it upside Down? Therapist Esther

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Speaker 1: Perel says, we're building our lives around our kids, but

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Speaker 1: should they be fitting around ours instead?

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Speaker 2: I also want to talk about are we rushing kids

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Speaker 2: out of childhood? Because there's this debate over whether starting

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Speaker 2: school at five is too young, but it goes far

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Speaker 2: beyond the classroom.

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Speaker 3: Plus, collecting, is it the new mindfulness? From Pokemon cards

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Speaker 3: to squishmallows? The surprising case for collecting says more about culture, memory.

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Speaker 4: And mental health even than you might think.

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Speaker 1: But first, what is in aname? And when it comes

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Speaker 1: to naming your kids, does it shape who they are

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Speaker 1: as a person?

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Speaker 3: I did a quick dive into this and it turns

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Speaker 3: out that people with easy to pronounce names are viewed

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Speaker 3: more positively than people with complex names. That said, Barack

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Speaker 3: Obama did okay for himself, Yes he did. And then

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Speaker 3: also a LinkedIn survey show that CEOs are more likely

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Speaker 3: to have really short, simple names. So there are some

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Speaker 3: studies about it, and some parents have even adopted this

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Speaker 3: idea of supernames, meaning like they want to give their

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Speaker 3: kid the best start in life by giving them a supername,

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Speaker 3: an elite name.

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Speaker 2: Yes, okay, what's the supername?

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Speaker 3: Well, a lot of them are from mythology, like Titan

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Speaker 3: and Atlas, names that really convey power and authority.

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Speaker 2: Why are you thinking about names, Stacy, You got something

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Speaker 2: to tell us?

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Speaker 4: No, definitely not for me.

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about this because I found this list.

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Speaker 1: There's eighty nine band names in Australia. Did you guys

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Speaker 1: know this? Like there's names you cannot use, you will

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Speaker 1: not be It never occurred to me before.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you can't call your kid like Priest or Jesus.

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Speaker 1: Yeah you can't. They are on the list, that's right.

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Speaker 4: Some others on the list, like some of them.

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Speaker 1: I can see how people maybe got confused wanted to

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Speaker 1: be like patriotic, for example, like you can't call your

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Speaker 1: kid Australia or Anne Zach. But maybe you thought they

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Speaker 1: had a nice ring to them. You can't call your kid.

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Speaker 1: A lot of the military titles as well, so like

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Speaker 1: admiral and cadet are on the list. But then there's

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Speaker 1: others that I'm really, it's so cute. I know, and

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Speaker 1: it kind of is, but there's some that are on

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Speaker 1: this list where I'm like, why do we have to

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Speaker 1: tell people not to call your kid this name? So Cyanide,

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Speaker 1: that's not a cute name. No, I don't know. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of edge, little Simmy and dickhead. You had to

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Speaker 1: be to the list and Facebook in case you were

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Speaker 1: just a real fan of Mark Zuckerberg. And I personally

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Speaker 1: think this one actually has a really nice ring to

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Speaker 1: it if you didn't know what it was. Natella, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's nice.

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Speaker 2: You can't call your kid Natella, No, because it's the trade.

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Speaker 3: One thing I thought was so interesting here is that

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Speaker 3: on the list it has the name sir.

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Speaker 4: But that's what Beyonce and jay Z called their kids.

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Speaker 4: So in Australia they.

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Speaker 1: Would not have been allowed to do that. No, I

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Speaker 1: mean maybe they would have bent the rules for Beyonce.

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Speaker 1: She can have whatever she wants.

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Speaker 2: There is a wild trend where celebrities give their kids

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Speaker 2: quite wacky names. Michael Jackson had that kid called Blanket.

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Speaker 2: But there's a whole raft of celebs that go crazy

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Speaker 2: on the names. And I heard a theory on a

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Speaker 2: podcast the other day that that's just what they tell

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Speaker 2: the press and the publicity. If they give the press

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Speaker 2: this crazy child name, the child actually has quite a

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Speaker 2: regular name. It's just for privacy reasons.

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Speaker 3: And also the celebrity names can really impact what people

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Speaker 3: go on to call their children. So for instance, you

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Speaker 3: know Lilla Bet, Megan and Harry's kid, who's named after

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Speaker 3: Queen Elizabeth's nickname. Lilla Beet's apparently given rise to this

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Speaker 3: idea of really unique names. They're really popular right now.

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Speaker 3: Whereas in the eighties when we were born, I think

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Speaker 3: we were all born in the eighties here names like

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Speaker 3: Jessica and Joshua. It was all about giving a kid

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Speaker 3: the name that everyone else had, and now we've moved

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Speaker 3: into this realm of really unique names. Well, I feel

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Speaker 3: like this started around the Apple Martin period of two

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Speaker 3: thousand and four, and it's still going like everyone's trying

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Speaker 3: to one up each other with the names. Like Jason Lee,

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Speaker 3: the actor his son's names, Pilot Inspector with a K

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Speaker 3: in it, just to be even more different.

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Speaker 2: Back to your original question about whether like a name

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Speaker 2: can set kids on a trajectory, there's this study, this

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Speaker 2: famous study from two thousand and four. It was called

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Speaker 2: r Emily and Greg more employable than Lakeisha and Jamal,

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Speaker 2: and researchers sent out these resumes. They were completely identical,

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Speaker 2: but they randomly assigned the resumes. Half of them got

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Speaker 2: white sounding names, and half of them got these African

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Speaker 2: American or lower socioeconomic sounding names. The white names, the

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Speaker 2: white sort of privileged coded names, got fifty percent more

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Speaker 2: callbacks for interviews. And there's also this study out of

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Speaker 2: Sweden where immigrants who selected a new Swedish name or

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Speaker 2: a neutral name made an average of twenty six percent

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Speaker 2: more money than those that kept their sort of original

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Speaker 2: immigrant name.

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Speaker 4: That's so depressing.

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Speaker 1: That's really sad.

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Speaker 3: It also reminds me of this research that was done

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Speaker 3: about boys with traditionally feminine sounding names. They were more

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Speaker 3: likely to have disciplinary issues in school than the boys

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Speaker 3: with more masculine names.

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Speaker 1: What's that about.

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Speaker 2: It's so interesting you say that, so I follow this

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Speaker 2: Instagram account called naming Bebet. Oh yes, it's so good. No,

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Speaker 2: one by another baby naming book again, just go straight

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Speaker 2: to naming Bebet. This woman, Colleen, her entire personality is

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Speaker 2: talking about baby names. She does trends, she does forecasting,

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Speaker 2: she does names that are climbing the charts. She does

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Speaker 2: every name you could ever think of. I wish I'd

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Speaker 2: found her before I named my children. But she says,

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Speaker 2: the top trend for twenty twenty five of naming children

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Speaker 2: is boys' names for girls, so Billy, Scottie Drew. She says.

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Speaker 2: The second big trend is for nature and cottage core

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Speaker 2: names like meadow and river. She says there's also a

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Speaker 2: really big swing towards short, effortless names for kids, so

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Speaker 2: one or two syllables, Ava, Zara, Ezra, Hugo, names like that.

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Speaker 2: And then she said the last sort of big trend

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Speaker 2: is vintage names that come around after one hundred years.

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Speaker 2: So Margo, Mabel, Arthur names like that.

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Speaker 1: No Monique, Amelia or Stacy on those lists. Ah well, all.

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Speaker 3: Right, I've got some important news for summer from our oracle.

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Speaker 3: Esther Perel, the American psychotherapist, says, we need to stop

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Speaker 3: scheduling our life around our children, and start scheduling our

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Speaker 3: children around our life.

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Speaker 4: Esta loves a schedule. We know this, She says.

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Speaker 3: One of her most famous adages is that we have

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Speaker 3: to schedule sex. But she thinks that parents are doing

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Speaker 3: too much with their kids and they need to stop

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Speaker 3: scheduling their kids so much.

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Speaker 4: They need to schedule more sex less kids.

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Speaker 5: Got that when you need to be at multiple birthdays

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Speaker 5: on a Saturday at a game, shuttling the kids, bringing

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Speaker 5: them from mounting to another, adjust in your entire schedule

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Speaker 5: around the schedule of your children, which is an amazing

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Speaker 5: reversal of hierarchy.

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Speaker 3: Now, this sounds so lovely, the idea of actually putting

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Speaker 3: parents on top and prioritizing them rather than their kids.

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Speaker 3: But it's also very obvious, and it's advice I've heard

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Speaker 3: a lot of times before and have found really hard

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Speaker 3: to put into practice. Why is it so hard to

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Speaker 3: put this into practice?

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Speaker 4: Do we think?

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Speaker 3: What are the pressures that are making us put our

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Speaker 3: children at the top of the hierarchy?

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Speaker 2: Monds Esther goes on in that clip to explain how

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Speaker 2: this hierarchy, this reversal hierarchy. She says, how is your

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Speaker 2: life going, How is your social life? How is your relationship?

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Speaker 2: How are you really when everything you do is revolved

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Speaker 2: around your children. And I'd like to say thank you

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Speaker 2: for asking Esther, because things are not great here. My

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Speaker 2: social life is dead. How about you guys?

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Speaker 1: This clip was almost a light bulb moment for me.

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Speaker 1: I think maybe if you're a rule follower, you just

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Speaker 1: think that's what you do. You like put your kids

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Speaker 1: into sport and they have to do that, and you're

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Speaker 1: a bad parent if you don't do that. And when

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Speaker 1: I saw this guy, I was like, oh, thank you

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Speaker 1: so much, Esther. Okay, I'm not going to do that anymore. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I should plan it around me because the problem is

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Speaker 1: because when you try and schedule something, you say how Saturday,

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Speaker 1: and they say, oh, little Jack, soccer practice goes from

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Speaker 1: eight till twelve. Like everyone's booked up by kids' parties

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Speaker 1: and kids' activities. Is this the problem?

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Speaker 2: Okay, there's a lot of layers to unpicking this, because

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Speaker 2: I think the thing that Esther doesn't talk about in

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Speaker 2: her ninety second Instagram clip are the other ways, the

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Speaker 2: other reasons that this is the case that suddenly our

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Speaker 2: lives revolved around our children, and I reckon, there's a

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Speaker 2: few things that have fundamentally shifted that we can pin

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Speaker 2: this too, And the number one thing for me is

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Speaker 2: entertaining at home. This is something that my parents did

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Speaker 2: a lot. We had some of this open house policy.

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Speaker 2: Every weekend. People would come over for barbecues or cups

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Speaker 2: of tea or whatever it was. They would hang out

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Speaker 2: with their friends, and their friends would bring the children

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Speaker 2: and we would just all hang out together, and so

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Speaker 2: we would be left alone. There was a lot of

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Speaker 2: unstructured play while the parents socialized. Now these days, I

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Speaker 2: think there's less secure housing, so more people rent, more

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Speaker 2: people move around, so roots don't stay down like they

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Speaker 2: did in the seventies and eighties. And there's also this

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Speaker 2: rise in individualism where we're just not as good socially

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Speaker 2: as we used to be. And finally, this culture of

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Speaker 2: intensive parenting means that we're all pretty much exhausted all

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Speaker 2: the time, and the thought of having people over feels

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Speaker 2: kind of hard. It feels like you have to clean

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Speaker 2: the house, you have to put yourself out there. It's

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Speaker 2: more of an effort on cups that are already pretty

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Speaker 2: running it empty.

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Speaker 1: But also when you do this with kids now and

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Speaker 1: you leave a group of them together at my house

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Speaker 1: on the weekend, they go and put a movie on together.

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Speaker 1: They watched Demon Hunters again for the hundredth time. The

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Speaker 1: screens are there, whether they're at your house or wherever

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Speaker 1: you are. So that's why I think we're putting them

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Speaker 1: into sport and trying to do all these activities so

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Speaker 1: that they're away from the house and away from the screens.

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Speaker 4: And it's also really hard to just push them at

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Speaker 4: the door.

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Speaker 3: Esther also says in this clip that when people come

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Speaker 3: over to your house to socialize with you, you should just

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Speaker 3: basically push your kids out the door. Well, the problem

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Speaker 3: is that I live on a busy road next to

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Speaker 3: a body of water. I cannot just push them out

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Speaker 3: the door and tell them to come back at sunset.

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Speaker 4: I have a theory as to why this is. I

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Speaker 4: think it's basically that kids.

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Speaker 3: Are not taking as many physical risks as they used to,

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Speaker 3: and there are some good reasons for this. This is

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Speaker 3: why we don't see kids in cars anymore. For instance,

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Speaker 3: roads have become more dangerous, there are more cars on them,

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Speaker 3: and the cars are bigger.

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Speaker 4: Kids are not riding bikes as much. Bikes used to

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Speaker 4: give us freedom.

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Speaker 3: We used to be able to travel really long distances

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Speaker 3: on them and it gives kids autonomy at an earlier age.

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Speaker 3: But it's true that half the number of KIS kids

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Speaker 3: are riding bikes now than they did in the nineteen nineties.

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Speaker 3: Now that is an American stat But I have to

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Speaker 3: say I never see kids riding around on the street

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Speaker 3: on bikes anymore, and when I do, it sort of

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Speaker 3: stops me in my tracks. And I think it's because

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Speaker 3: things have become more dangerous on the roads and we

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Speaker 3: can't just push the kids out the door.

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Speaker 2: Off your theory, Amelia, which is an excellent theory. I've

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Speaker 2: got another one, Stacy. You kind of mentioned it before

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Speaker 2: about screens, but kids are overscheduled because parents will do

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Speaker 2: anything to stop them watching TV or playing iPads or

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Speaker 2: winging for both. The struggle is real. And sometimes you

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Speaker 2: know what you can't do when you're swimming, when you're

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Speaker 2: playing basketball, when you're at piano lessons, you can't beat

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Speaker 2: on a screen. So I do think that we are

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Speaker 2: overloading our kids with activities to kind of stem the

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Speaker 2: tide of screen time.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely.

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Speaker 2: But the other thing is is like there are no

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Speaker 2: third spaces for kids to have unstructured play with other kids.

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Speaker 2: The only place you can do that is having people

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Speaker 2: over to your house, meeting at a park, and there

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Speaker 2: is a massive decline in that, and Esther's right, and

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Speaker 2: maybe we do just need to bring it back.

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Speaker 4: And the other thing.

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Speaker 3: I was just thinking about her point that adults and

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Speaker 3: particularly parents need to prioritize their friendships more. That is

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Speaker 3: a new element to this that I haven't really thought about.

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Speaker 3: I don't think we talk very much about how adults

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Speaker 3: can build friendships when they have little kids, because we're

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Speaker 3: all focused on how the kids can develop friendships, but

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Speaker 3: we sort of do let our social lives go by

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Speaker 3: the wayside.

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Speaker 4: Is yours by the ways Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Definitely. And I think you are making those friendships as

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Speaker 1: a result of what you think is best for your child,

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Speaker 1: rather than just being like, you're going to come across

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Speaker 1: all types of different people, So you're going to come

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Speaker 1: across all different types of children, be around the ones

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Speaker 1: that are my friend's children, and put up with that

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Speaker 1: so that I can have a good time.

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Speaker 2: It's very French, isn't it. It's very French to kind

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Speaker 2: of just keep living your life as an adult and

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Speaker 2: the kids just spit around you. And maybe that is

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Speaker 2: pointing to Esther's childhood, Like she grew up in Antwerp,

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Speaker 2: maybe that was something they did culturally more there that

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Speaker 2: she wants to see get back to.

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Speaker 3: So, in addition to the social element of this and

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Speaker 3: the fact that we're letting us socialize for by the wayside,

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Speaker 3: I wonder what Esther would say about the way that

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Speaker 3: women in particular increasingly make decisions about their careers based

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Speaker 3: on what would be best for their children, rather than thinking,

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Speaker 3: how can I think big in my career. I think

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Speaker 3: we often are wondering how to curtail our ambitions so

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Speaker 3: that we can spend more time with our kids, and

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Speaker 3: that's born out in the statistics. One interesting figure is

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Speaker 3: that Australian women more Australian women work part time than

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Speaker 3: any other OECD countries, and I think that's because they're

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Speaker 3: consciously saying I want to spend more time with my children.

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Speaker 4: But I wonder if Esther would say that's a good

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Speaker 4: thing or not.

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Speaker 1: For a lot of people, the days that they spend

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Speaker 1: at work are probably a bit easier than the days

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Speaker 1: they spend with their children. Because I work part time,

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Speaker 1: I work four days a week, and I would say

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Speaker 1: that that extra day I get to spend with my

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Speaker 1: daughter is quite intensive because I'm thinking, I have a

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Speaker 1: limited amount of time with you, so what can I

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Speaker 1: do to make this the most enriching day, the most

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Speaker 1: entertaining day. So I think almost work puts more pressure

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Speaker 1: on the time you do have it with your children,

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Speaker 1: and maybe that's the case even for people working full time.

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Speaker 1: That then that is why the weekends are stacked. That

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Speaker 1: is why we're center around our children.

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Speaker 3: My weekends are so stacked, Yes, because I feel this

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Speaker 3: need to squeeze all the time out with the kids.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it's very guilt motivated, Like I think

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Speaker 1: we're using that as a Okay, we have this finite time,

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Speaker 1: so we need to make sure that we're ticking all

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Speaker 1: the boxes for them. But we're not thinking about any

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Speaker 1: downtime for ourselves or any enjoyment for ourselves. And that's

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Speaker 1: why we're all bloody exhausted.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, massively. I read this great theory the other day

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Speaker 2: about this mother who decides that every term for there

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Speaker 2: are no sport, no anything, no structured activities. That term

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Speaker 2: four is just the term where everyone has a full

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Speaker 2: chill out time, where there's a lot more unstructured play,

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Speaker 2: a lot more freedom, and she says every year she

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Speaker 2: looks forward to that term for relief, and so I've

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Speaker 2: started doing that as well.

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Speaker 4: I just have to say, doesn't that just mean more TV?

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Speaker 3: That's certainly what it would mean in my house, Like

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Speaker 3: rather than the idea of unstructured playtime, it will just

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Speaker 3: mean more baking shows on Netflix.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it does. It's harder, it's more intensive parenting. And

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Speaker 2: the thing is we're trying to get away from this

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Speaker 2: intensive parenting, but it does. It increases the intensity of

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Speaker 2: it because you're always filling the days with how am

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Speaker 2: I going to fill these hours?

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Speaker 1: But as to solved it for us guys, which has

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Speaker 1: got to invite more friends over.

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Speaker 2: I can't. We're tired and we're at work all the time.

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Speaker 1: Guys.

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Speaker 2: Were creeping up into a new school year, plenty of

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Speaker 2: kids will be starting their new school first day of school,

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Speaker 2: which brings me to a question that I want to

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Speaker 2: put on the table. Should we delay the age that

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Speaker 2: kids start school now? The expert consensus is yes, we

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Speaker 2: need to start delaying kids starting school, especially boys, that

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Speaker 2: we are rushing kids out of childhood, that kids just

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Speaker 2: need play, play, play and more play. Amelia, what do

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Speaker 2: you think.

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Speaker 3: This is something that I've noticed just recently and maybe

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Speaker 3: the last five years, that there really has been this

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Speaker 3: coalescing of a consensus around boys in particular needing to

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Speaker 3: start school later than they have in the past. And

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Speaker 3: that's all well and good, but I'm seeing that with

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Speaker 3: that consensus is coming a bit of a class divide.

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Speaker 3: And this is particularly a parent in the US. There's

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Speaker 3: an Atlantic article about what it's called there. The practice

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Speaker 3: of delaying boys is called red shirting, and basically the

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Speaker 3: Atlantic article says that it's really only the rich parents

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Speaker 3: who are able to do this, because everyone else is

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Speaker 3: thinking about the trade offs between childcare and school and

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Speaker 3: they're saying, I cannot afford to keep paying another year

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Speaker 3: of childcare, I have to put my kid in school.

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Speaker 3: And it's only the rich parents who get to say, oh,

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Speaker 3: it would be so lovely to give little Johnny an

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Speaker 3: extra year of play before he starts this very very

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Speaker 3: serious business. We've all suddenly decided school is so serious,

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Speaker 3: and there's this idea that it's a lux to give

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Speaker 3: the kids this year of reprieve before the seriousness of school.

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Speaker 3: And I'm worried about that because I feel like it's

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Speaker 3: creating an inequality even before kids have started on their

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Speaker 3: first educational milestone.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm confused why we're saying that we're giving

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Speaker 1: them another year of play. Like I thought kindergarten basically

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Speaker 1: was play. You know, they're learning things, but everything's meant

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Speaker 1: to be through play. But now it feels like this

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Speaker 1: really serious deadline of like we need to make sure

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Speaker 1: they have school readiness.

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Speaker 3: School readiness is a phase that I'm certain is relatively

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Speaker 3: new in its use, and I was really struck by

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Speaker 3: when I was trying to decide on a preschool for

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Speaker 3: my daughter when we moved back to Australia last year.

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Speaker 3: This phrase is ubiquitous school readiness. We used to assume

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Speaker 3: that by definition of the child's age, they were ready

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Speaker 3: for school, but now there's this added layer of school readiness.

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Speaker 1: Is it like we want them to perform better than

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Speaker 1: the other kids? Like, is this where this started?

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Speaker 2: It's not that it's because the research has been done

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Speaker 2: and anyone new to this kind of argument, I'll just

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Speaker 2: quickly explain. Experts say that basically boys and girls develop

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Speaker 2: at different rates, and generally girls mature faster than boys,

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Speaker 2: so that if boys start school a little bit later

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Speaker 2: at six, then they have much better outcomes academically, socially,

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Speaker 2: and emotionally. And so Maggie Dan you might know her,

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Speaker 2: she's sort of a parenting expert. She takes this so

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Speaker 2: seriously that she took a submission to the federal government

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three about this. She was so disturbed

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Speaker 2: by what she calls the push down, the push down

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Speaker 2: of the age of which kids start school, and she says,

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Speaker 2: you know, this ridiculous pressure to make our kids smart

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Speaker 2: before that we ensure that they are able to get

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Speaker 2: on with others, communicate and be understood, have hours of

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Speaker 2: joy and delight as kids learn to cope with disappointment

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Speaker 2: and setbacks and enjoy the freedom of being a magical child.

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Speaker 2: Under seven is making our kids sadder, sicker, fatter, and

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Speaker 2: more disconnected than any other generation of children. And we

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Speaker 2: see this as well in the data. The boys are

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Speaker 2: falling further behind girls in the classroom because there's this

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Speaker 2: argument that the school classroom environment is not built for boys.

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Speaker 3: I'm really glad that Maggie Dent took that to the

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Speaker 3: government because I do think that this is a festering

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Speaker 3: issue that we have to deal with, because right now

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Speaker 3: what we've got is a situation where the experts are

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Speaker 3: saying delay, delay, delay, but the only people who actually

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Speaker 3: are able to put that into practice are people with

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Speaker 3: the luxury and the financial resources to delay. And until

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Speaker 3: we get some kind of nationwide or at the very

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Speaker 3: least state by state guidelines that narrow the window for

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Speaker 3: when you should be starting school, we're going to see

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Speaker 3: this bifurcation in terms of when people are deciding to.

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Speaker 1: Get this, and it's very confusing, like a lot of

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Speaker 1: it is put back on parents. Zoe Rochford wrote for

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Speaker 1: Muma Mia this great piece that went off on site,

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Speaker 1: like I don't think I've seen this many replies to

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Speaker 1: a story in a long time. So people deaf felt

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Speaker 1: very passionate about this and very confused because the rules

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Speaker 1: are a bit different in every state in Australia, but

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Speaker 1: in New South Wales you could essentially have children that

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Speaker 1: are eighteen months different in age starting school because it

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Speaker 1: is so much put back on the parents. But I

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Speaker 1: loved going through the comments on this piece, which was

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Speaker 1: basically around her confusion about when to send her son

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Speaker 1: to school because she said everyone is telling me to

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Speaker 1: hold him back but why, And overwhelmingly all the teachers

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Speaker 1: in the comments were saying it is because of the

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Speaker 1: emotional reasons you spoke about mons like, there needs to

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Speaker 1: be a focus on whether they're emotionally ready, whether they

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Speaker 1: can self regulate, whether they can get on with other people.

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Speaker 1: But it's so much centered on this. We need to

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Speaker 1: make sure that they perform at school. And I loved

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Speaker 1: one of the comments was from a woman Anika, who

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Speaker 1: grew up in Scandinavia, and she said that they all

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Speaker 1: went to school when they turned seven, so they all

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Speaker 1: had this extra year at home and she thinks that

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Speaker 1: was great because it gave them all another year to

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Speaker 1: just be kidded.

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Speaker 4: Another year at home.

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Speaker 3: What is this?

438
00:21:07,754 --> 00:21:09,914
Speaker 4: And I think, how is that going to work?

439
00:21:10,274 --> 00:21:12,754
Speaker 3: That is another year at home means another year in

440
00:21:12,914 --> 00:21:15,594
Speaker 3: childcare for most people. Let's be real, it's not a

441
00:21:15,674 --> 00:21:18,954
Speaker 3: year of baking muffins and of doing like museum trips.

442
00:21:19,034 --> 00:21:20,594
Speaker 3: It's another year of daycare.

443
00:21:20,834 --> 00:21:21,114
Speaker 1: Yeah.

444
00:21:21,194 --> 00:21:23,434
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that goes to your point about privilege, Amelia.

445
00:21:23,434 --> 00:21:25,274
Speaker 2: Can you just explain it to me? So you think

446
00:21:25,274 --> 00:21:27,833
Speaker 2: that holding kids back another year or starting them at

447
00:21:27,914 --> 00:21:30,833
Speaker 2: six is something that only privileged people are able to do?

448
00:21:30,874 --> 00:21:32,474
Speaker 2: Tell me about that, Well, that's.

449
00:21:32,274 --> 00:21:35,033
Speaker 3: My theory, and that's how it's playing out in the US.

450
00:21:35,154 --> 00:21:38,674
Speaker 3: And it's because if you've got both parents working, If

451
00:21:38,714 --> 00:21:41,234
Speaker 3: you have two parents and they're both working, what that

452
00:21:41,394 --> 00:21:44,594
Speaker 3: means is that before the kids start school, you've got

453
00:21:44,594 --> 00:21:48,513
Speaker 3: to find some kind of formal childcare. And formal childcare

454
00:21:48,794 --> 00:21:52,474
Speaker 3: is really expensive, and so by making the decision to

455
00:21:52,554 --> 00:21:55,634
Speaker 3: delay school, you're signing up for another year of those

456
00:21:55,714 --> 00:21:58,314
Speaker 3: day care fees. And I know a lot of people

457
00:21:58,394 --> 00:22:01,073
Speaker 3: personally who just decided that that was a bridge too

458
00:22:01,194 --> 00:22:04,194
Speaker 3: far for them. They pushed their kid into school against

459
00:22:04,234 --> 00:22:07,594
Speaker 3: the advice of teachers and educators because they would not

460
00:22:07,674 --> 00:22:09,994
Speaker 3: pay for another year of child But the other side

461
00:22:09,994 --> 00:22:12,194
Speaker 3: of that is if you do have two parents that

462
00:22:12,234 --> 00:22:15,434
Speaker 3: are working full time, or our parent that's working full time.

463
00:22:15,874 --> 00:22:19,954
Speaker 1: Then school finishes at two thirty. So at least I

464
00:22:20,194 --> 00:22:23,513
Speaker 1: think in my situation, when we looked at that, we went, well,

465
00:22:23,994 --> 00:22:25,793
Speaker 1: we need to keep her in daycare so that we

466
00:22:25,834 --> 00:22:27,994
Speaker 1: can have her at daycare for longer hours. And I

467
00:22:28,034 --> 00:22:29,914
Speaker 1: know a lot of people where that's the case. They say,

468
00:22:29,954 --> 00:22:31,914
Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm going to do when we

469
00:22:31,954 --> 00:22:34,474
Speaker 1: get to the school time for pickups and drop offs.

470
00:22:34,514 --> 00:22:36,834
Speaker 3: And this is why I think your point, Stacy, that

471
00:22:36,954 --> 00:22:38,834
Speaker 3: this is all being put on the parents is so

472
00:22:39,074 --> 00:22:43,554
Speaker 3: unfair because rather than this idealized notion of every kid

473
00:22:43,634 --> 00:22:45,994
Speaker 3: just needs another year at home, we need to be

474
00:22:46,074 --> 00:22:49,034
Speaker 3: realistic about what that means for parents. What that means

475
00:22:49,034 --> 00:22:52,793
Speaker 3: for parents are really complicated financial decisions, and we're putting

476
00:22:52,794 --> 00:22:56,394
Speaker 3: this on individuals rather than saying as a society, this

477
00:22:56,474 --> 00:22:58,994
Speaker 3: is the age we think children should start school.

478
00:22:59,114 --> 00:23:01,553
Speaker 2: Yeah, the problems go further than that, though, because then

479
00:23:01,554 --> 00:23:03,954
Speaker 2: you're making the financial decision to send them to school.

480
00:23:03,954 --> 00:23:07,274
Speaker 2: That's moving the problem onto the teachers who are sometimes

481
00:23:07,434 --> 00:23:10,793
Speaker 2: teaching a really wide age range of kids. There's like

482
00:23:10,874 --> 00:23:14,834
Speaker 2: often eighteen months difference between kids in reception or prep

483
00:23:14,914 --> 00:23:17,273
Speaker 2: or kindergarten or whatever you call it, and that is

484
00:23:17,274 --> 00:23:20,594
Speaker 2: a pressure that teachers who are already cracking under the

485
00:23:20,634 --> 00:23:24,874
Speaker 2: pressure of keeping up with your divergence in the classroom

486
00:23:25,114 --> 00:23:29,714
Speaker 2: and crazy hours and the increased demand on parent communications

487
00:23:29,714 --> 00:23:33,954
Speaker 2: and technology like that is just creating this pressure point

488
00:23:34,554 --> 00:23:37,194
Speaker 2: in education that probably doesn't need to be there.

489
00:23:37,514 --> 00:23:40,354
Speaker 3: That's a great point, and I wonder how the fact

490
00:23:40,434 --> 00:23:43,994
Speaker 3: that childcare and specifically daycare is such a big business

491
00:23:43,994 --> 00:23:46,593
Speaker 3: in this country is kind of impacting how governments are

492
00:23:46,594 --> 00:23:47,754
Speaker 3: thinking about the policy.

493
00:23:48,074 --> 00:23:51,273
Speaker 2: I know, well, Albin Easy said, and we're getting right

494
00:23:51,314 --> 00:23:54,874
Speaker 2: into the weeds here, but his legacy in government was

495
00:23:54,914 --> 00:23:59,954
Speaker 2: going to be greatly accessible childcare and the kind of

496
00:24:00,034 --> 00:24:03,594
Speaker 2: childcare that is affordable, accessible in the way that public

497
00:24:03,634 --> 00:24:05,714
Speaker 2: schools are. And maybe this is all part of it,

498
00:24:05,754 --> 00:24:06,514
Speaker 2: A Miliam.

499
00:24:06,234 --> 00:24:07,994
Speaker 3: No, I just think it's a matter of the fact

500
00:24:07,994 --> 00:24:11,074
Speaker 3: that this is yet another way in which modern parenting

501
00:24:11,314 --> 00:24:14,354
Speaker 3: is about the experts telling us this one thing and

502
00:24:14,434 --> 00:24:16,994
Speaker 3: then governments leaving it completely up to us as to

503
00:24:16,994 --> 00:24:18,234
Speaker 3: whether or not we implement it.

504
00:24:18,554 --> 00:24:18,714
Speaker 2: Well.

505
00:24:18,714 --> 00:24:21,154
Speaker 1: The consensus from the teachers in at least in the

506
00:24:21,194 --> 00:24:23,874
Speaker 1: comments that we were seeing, was that they never see

507
00:24:23,914 --> 00:24:26,394
Speaker 1: someone regret holding them back, but they do see it

508
00:24:26,434 --> 00:24:28,513
Speaker 1: the opposite way around. So I guess you know your

509
00:24:28,554 --> 00:24:29,874
Speaker 1: kid best, but that's what.

510
00:24:29,794 --> 00:24:30,794
Speaker 4: The teachers are saying.

511
00:24:31,074 --> 00:24:34,513
Speaker 2: The other thing this speaks to is the crazy amount

512
00:24:34,834 --> 00:24:40,313
Speaker 2: of rising cases of school refusal, and also homeschooling is

513
00:24:40,354 --> 00:24:42,354
Speaker 2: on the rise, and it sort of begs a bigger

514
00:24:42,434 --> 00:24:46,234
Speaker 2: question of does our school system actually fit every kid

515
00:24:46,314 --> 00:24:49,954
Speaker 2: because the statistics say it doesn't, and kids that are

516
00:24:49,994 --> 00:24:52,794
Speaker 2: not ready are not ready to learn and they will

517
00:24:52,834 --> 00:24:56,154
Speaker 2: start to refuse school. So it's this massive snowball effect,

518
00:24:56,274 --> 00:24:58,674
Speaker 2: and you're right the experts are saying, if you can

519
00:24:58,714 --> 00:25:01,474
Speaker 2: afford to delay, the outcomes are much much better.

520
00:25:01,594 --> 00:25:03,754
Speaker 3: The fact that this is causing so much angst for

521
00:25:03,874 --> 00:25:06,714
Speaker 3: parents speaks to the fact that we are now confused

522
00:25:06,714 --> 00:25:10,914
Speaker 3: about what school is for. With the advent of artificial intelligence,

523
00:25:11,114 --> 00:25:14,354
Speaker 3: there's a feeling of maybe our whole concept of formal

524
00:25:14,474 --> 00:25:17,634
Speaker 3: education for thirteen years is just way off and doesn't

525
00:25:17,674 --> 00:25:21,034
Speaker 3: fit what we actually need from our modern workforces and

526
00:25:21,074 --> 00:25:24,674
Speaker 3: from workforces in the future, and maybe this ambivalence about

527
00:25:24,674 --> 00:25:27,954
Speaker 3: starting school is connected to a confusion about what school

528
00:25:27,994 --> 00:25:28,394
Speaker 3: is even for.

529
00:25:29,034 --> 00:25:31,674
Speaker 2: School is never really about the academic side of stuff,

530
00:25:31,754 --> 00:25:34,154
Speaker 2: like we lie to ourselves thinking that it is. But

531
00:25:34,554 --> 00:25:38,154
Speaker 2: school is about learning to undertake things, learning to concentrate,

532
00:25:38,234 --> 00:25:41,594
Speaker 2: learning to listen, learning to take construction, learning to coach yourself,

533
00:25:41,674 --> 00:25:44,914
Speaker 2: learning independent styles of learning. The same with university. You

534
00:25:44,914 --> 00:25:47,513
Speaker 2: don't go to university to learn to become like I

535
00:25:47,554 --> 00:25:49,513
Speaker 2: did an arts degree, so it's a little bit different

536
00:25:49,554 --> 00:25:53,274
Speaker 2: to engineering or doctors. But the whole purpose I found

537
00:25:53,314 --> 00:25:56,554
Speaker 2: at university is like taking a concept, going away, doing

538
00:25:56,594 --> 00:25:59,234
Speaker 2: the thinking and being able to show your work. And

539
00:25:59,314 --> 00:26:03,554
Speaker 2: I think that by pegging schools to only doing academic results,

540
00:26:03,554 --> 00:26:05,914
Speaker 2: we're doing them a great disservice. Schools do a lot

541
00:26:05,954 --> 00:26:09,394
Speaker 2: more than that. So assuming that schools aren't up with

542
00:26:09,514 --> 00:26:12,954
Speaker 2: AI and that aren't doing this whole, well rounded sort

543
00:26:12,954 --> 00:26:15,594
Speaker 2: of educational programs, and I think they are. I think

544
00:26:15,674 --> 00:26:18,354
Speaker 2: that schools are trying to do the very best they

545
00:26:18,354 --> 00:26:20,273
Speaker 2: can with what they have and the pressures that they

546
00:26:20,274 --> 00:26:23,474
Speaker 2: are under. So pour one out for the schools. I

547
00:26:23,474 --> 00:26:24,234
Speaker 2: feel bad for them.

548
00:26:25,314 --> 00:26:27,874
Speaker 1: Okay, so I've got a bit of a creepy confession.

549
00:26:28,474 --> 00:26:30,954
Speaker 1: Maybe you'll find this weird. I found a box the

550
00:26:30,954 --> 00:26:33,834
Speaker 1: other day, like a little satin heart shaped box, and

551
00:26:33,874 --> 00:26:36,634
Speaker 1: it was full of my baby tea.

552
00:26:36,714 --> 00:26:38,154
Speaker 4: Do you guys have this?

553
00:26:38,154 --> 00:26:39,714
Speaker 1: Is this something your parents did for you?

554
00:26:40,114 --> 00:26:42,674
Speaker 3: I was denied the possibility of keeping my baby.

555
00:26:42,834 --> 00:26:44,834
Speaker 1: I guess your parents just did love it as much

556
00:26:44,874 --> 00:26:49,074
Speaker 1: as mine keeping my literal DNA. It looked pretty weird

557
00:26:49,154 --> 00:26:51,594
Speaker 1: to me. It was in like I've got a keepsake

558
00:26:51,714 --> 00:26:53,794
Speaker 1: box that I've had since I was little, and it's

559
00:26:53,834 --> 00:26:55,914
Speaker 1: got all this stuff in it, like ballet slippers I

560
00:26:55,914 --> 00:26:58,634
Speaker 1: don't remember wearing. And there was like this bowl that

561
00:26:58,714 --> 00:27:00,634
Speaker 1: I have no idea where I got it from, but

562
00:27:00,674 --> 00:27:02,674
Speaker 1: I looked at it all and I thought, I absolutely

563
00:27:02,714 --> 00:27:04,754
Speaker 1: will not throw this out because I know it must

564
00:27:04,794 --> 00:27:08,313
Speaker 1: have mattered to me at some And it got me

565
00:27:08,354 --> 00:27:11,754
Speaker 1: thinking a lot about collecting and what it means to

566
00:27:11,834 --> 00:27:15,314
Speaker 1: keep things that aren't necessarily sentimental, because kids and adults

567
00:27:15,354 --> 00:27:17,914
Speaker 1: both do it. Like little kids are always collecting like

568
00:27:18,034 --> 00:27:21,474
Speaker 1: seashells or collecting little scraps of paper. It doesn't even

569
00:27:21,474 --> 00:27:23,554
Speaker 1: need to be something that means something, but we do

570
00:27:23,634 --> 00:27:26,234
Speaker 1: that all the time. To either of you do this

571
00:27:26,394 --> 00:27:27,553
Speaker 1: like are you collectors?

572
00:27:27,634 --> 00:27:27,794
Speaker 3: Mon?

573
00:27:27,874 --> 00:27:30,274
Speaker 1: Are you like organizing your stamp collection on the weekend?

574
00:27:30,834 --> 00:27:31,154
Speaker 4: I'm not.

575
00:27:31,314 --> 00:27:33,674
Speaker 2: And look, this is hard for me. The collections are

576
00:27:33,714 --> 00:27:35,834
Speaker 2: hard for me because I'm a real squashed earth minimalist.

577
00:27:36,074 --> 00:27:38,793
Speaker 2: Like I sold my wedding dress to an out loud listener.

578
00:27:38,914 --> 00:27:41,714
Speaker 2: I keep very little, like the art goes in the

579
00:27:41,714 --> 00:27:44,313
Speaker 2: bin here. But I do know that kids grow up

580
00:27:44,354 --> 00:27:47,793
Speaker 2: absorbing these messages, and so in this instance, it feels

581
00:27:47,914 --> 00:27:52,594
Speaker 2: wrong to be a minimalist family when I know that

582
00:27:53,234 --> 00:27:58,354
Speaker 2: collections are really good for building identity. There are a

583
00:27:58,354 --> 00:28:00,553
Speaker 2: great nostalgia piece like how did you feel when you

584
00:28:00,594 --> 00:28:02,074
Speaker 2: came across all those great little things.

585
00:28:02,154 --> 00:28:02,594
Speaker 4: That's it?

586
00:28:02,674 --> 00:28:03,394
Speaker 1: Like you love it?

587
00:28:03,554 --> 00:28:03,634
Speaker 3: You?

588
00:28:03,914 --> 00:28:06,674
Speaker 1: We felt loved too, Yeah, I did, Like do you

589
00:28:06,714 --> 00:28:07,474
Speaker 1: have any ya? No?

590
00:28:07,554 --> 00:28:10,434
Speaker 3: I feel so guilty whenever one of my kids loses

591
00:28:10,474 --> 00:28:12,194
Speaker 3: their teeth. I'm just like, what am I meant to

592
00:28:12,194 --> 00:28:14,874
Speaker 3: do with this? But then I read this substack recently

593
00:28:14,874 --> 00:28:17,793
Speaker 3: by Elsie Morales, which really got me thinking that maybe

594
00:28:17,834 --> 00:28:20,394
Speaker 3: I do need to start collecting things. Because we know

595
00:28:20,514 --> 00:28:23,594
Speaker 3: that kids love collecting things, right, Like, we've discussed how

596
00:28:23,834 --> 00:28:26,474
Speaker 3: it's almost an instinct or an impulse.

597
00:28:25,954 --> 00:28:27,154
Speaker 4: That they have to collect.

598
00:28:27,554 --> 00:28:30,154
Speaker 3: Elsie in the Substack talks about the fact that collecting

599
00:28:30,234 --> 00:28:32,634
Speaker 3: has a real value as an activity because it's a

600
00:28:32,714 --> 00:28:36,034
Speaker 3: mindfulness practice. It causes us to slow down. It makes

601
00:28:36,074 --> 00:28:38,754
Speaker 3: time itself slow down. By collecting things. They're kind of

602
00:28:38,794 --> 00:28:40,754
Speaker 3: like little time machines that take you back to the

603
00:28:40,794 --> 00:28:42,754
Speaker 3: time when you first collected it and when you picked

604
00:28:42,794 --> 00:28:45,034
Speaker 3: it up. The reason why this resonated with me is

605
00:28:45,074 --> 00:28:48,874
Speaker 3: because kids do seem really calm when they're going through

606
00:28:48,874 --> 00:28:51,474
Speaker 3: their collections. It does seem to do something to their

607
00:28:51,514 --> 00:28:54,674
Speaker 3: cortisol levels, to their nervous system. I think about a

608
00:28:54,794 --> 00:28:58,634
Speaker 3: kid paging through his Pokemon album or looking at the

609
00:28:58,674 --> 00:29:01,474
Speaker 3: shells that he collected the last school holidays in a

610
00:29:01,514 --> 00:29:02,914
Speaker 3: little box that we bought for him.

611
00:29:02,954 --> 00:29:05,074
Speaker 4: And it's true that it does seem to.

612
00:29:05,154 --> 00:29:08,994
Speaker 3: Really reassure them that the past is the past, but

613
00:29:09,074 --> 00:29:11,514
Speaker 3: they've always got some memories of it to keep. So

614
00:29:11,554 --> 00:29:13,394
Speaker 3: it really got me thinking about the fact that maybe

615
00:29:13,394 --> 00:29:16,354
Speaker 3: I need to get better at collecting stuff, both my

616
00:29:16,474 --> 00:29:19,954
Speaker 3: kids stuff, but also allowing them to observe me holding

617
00:29:19,994 --> 00:29:23,754
Speaker 3: onto things and keeping them, and the value in keeping

618
00:29:23,794 --> 00:29:25,234
Speaker 3: something rather than just living in.

619
00:29:25,194 --> 00:29:27,194
Speaker 4: A disposable world where we throw everything out.

620
00:29:27,394 --> 00:29:30,794
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's so personal to the person, Like you'll

621
00:29:30,794 --> 00:29:33,674
Speaker 1: collect something that means a lot to you, but then

622
00:29:34,194 --> 00:29:36,954
Speaker 1: who's expected to hold on to that? Like when we're gone,

623
00:29:37,314 --> 00:29:39,994
Speaker 1: are we expecting our grandchildren to like hold on to

624
00:29:40,314 --> 00:29:42,114
Speaker 1: our DNA and then little satin box?

625
00:29:42,194 --> 00:29:44,514
Speaker 3: But I think that's like when you got the satin

626
00:29:44,594 --> 00:29:46,794
Speaker 3: box out. See, I didn't grow up in a house

627
00:29:46,874 --> 00:29:50,034
Speaker 3: where my baby teeth were collected, so but I'm guessing

628
00:29:50,114 --> 00:29:53,114
Speaker 3: that when you open this up, it was a reminder

629
00:29:53,314 --> 00:29:55,394
Speaker 3: of how precious you were to your parents, and how

630
00:29:55,434 --> 00:29:58,354
Speaker 3: precious your baby teeth were to your parents, and it

631
00:29:58,394 --> 00:30:02,034
Speaker 3: probably made you feel really calm and loved and reassured.

632
00:30:02,074 --> 00:30:04,154
Speaker 4: Did it on some baby?

633
00:30:04,354 --> 00:30:06,874
Speaker 2: I don't know, But Stacy, what are you collecting?

634
00:30:07,234 --> 00:30:10,514
Speaker 1: I actually collect cards. I really struggle to throw out

635
00:30:10,554 --> 00:30:13,234
Speaker 1: any card that anyone was reading A card, yeah, yeah,

636
00:30:13,274 --> 00:30:15,434
Speaker 1: So any card that anyone's written me, any letter or

637
00:30:15,474 --> 00:30:17,914
Speaker 1: a note, anything that's got handwriting on it, I do keep.

638
00:30:18,154 --> 00:30:20,594
Speaker 1: So you're right, maybe it is that connection to the past,

639
00:30:20,634 --> 00:30:23,474
Speaker 1: like you're kind of on some level like what about

640
00:30:23,474 --> 00:30:25,554
Speaker 1: when that person's gone. Now I've got a little piece

641
00:30:25,594 --> 00:30:25,754
Speaker 1: of that.

642
00:30:26,114 --> 00:30:28,514
Speaker 2: Is that a collection or is that just like keeping stuff?

643
00:30:28,554 --> 00:30:30,314
Speaker 2: Because I think there's a difference. I think there are

644
00:30:30,314 --> 00:30:32,914
Speaker 2: people who go out and actively collect and use it

645
00:30:32,914 --> 00:30:35,394
Speaker 2: as a hobby, and I think that's the mindfulness part.

646
00:30:35,434 --> 00:30:37,794
Speaker 2: But I think what you're talking about is just people

647
00:30:37,794 --> 00:30:39,914
Speaker 2: gave me this and I feel guilty throwing it out

648
00:30:40,034 --> 00:30:41,834
Speaker 2: or I feel good keeping it. Yeah.

649
00:30:41,874 --> 00:30:44,034
Speaker 1: Maybe there's a distinction between things that you collect for

650
00:30:44,114 --> 00:30:47,434
Speaker 1: sentimental reasons and things that you're collecting us something to do.

651
00:30:48,034 --> 00:30:50,074
Speaker 3: So it is the Pokemon card. I think there's an

652
00:30:50,194 --> 00:30:54,474
Speaker 3: organizational element to it. So just this past weekend, I

653
00:30:54,594 --> 00:30:57,434
Speaker 3: encourage my son to reorganize his Pokemon cards.

654
00:30:57,834 --> 00:31:01,154
Speaker 4: It did take him a full day and I was an.

655
00:31:01,034 --> 00:31:03,674
Speaker 3: Interest in watching TV while doing it. That's why there's

656
00:31:03,674 --> 00:31:06,794
Speaker 3: subseacs onto something. There's something in that idea of and

657
00:31:06,834 --> 00:31:09,914
Speaker 3: you're I think that distinction between collecting and just keeping

658
00:31:09,954 --> 00:31:14,354
Speaker 3: something is the organizational element. There's something to encouraging kids

659
00:31:14,394 --> 00:31:17,434
Speaker 3: to think about a taxonomy of the objects they own

660
00:31:17,594 --> 00:31:19,714
Speaker 3: and thinking about how they want to organize them and

661
00:31:19,754 --> 00:31:21,674
Speaker 3: how they want to put them in a way that

662
00:31:21,714 --> 00:31:24,554
Speaker 3: they can revisit them. I think there's some discipline in that.

663
00:31:24,674 --> 00:31:27,954
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and care for them and have ownership for them.

664
00:31:28,034 --> 00:31:30,914
Speaker 2: That's just I want to tell you about a place

665
00:31:30,954 --> 00:31:35,074
Speaker 2: called Woodsy's Gem Shop. It's in mill Dura. Now, if

666
00:31:35,114 --> 00:31:37,594
Speaker 2: you know, you know, but if you haven't been there,

667
00:31:37,834 --> 00:31:39,634
Speaker 2: I'm just going to explain this. So in the nineteen

668
00:31:39,714 --> 00:31:43,434
Speaker 2: seventies there's this couple, Doug and Betty Woods, and they

669
00:31:43,434 --> 00:31:46,914
Speaker 2: started collecting rocks and then it moved to gems and

670
00:31:46,954 --> 00:31:49,394
Speaker 2: then stones, and then they got their kids involved and

671
00:31:49,434 --> 00:31:52,994
Speaker 2: it filled up every room of the house. So they

672
00:31:53,034 --> 00:31:56,314
Speaker 2: started a gem shop and we went on a holiday

673
00:31:56,354 --> 00:31:58,474
Speaker 2: with the kids to meal Dura. That's right. We're not

674
00:31:58,514 --> 00:32:00,914
Speaker 2: really a Disneyland family. We're more of a mill Durer family.

675
00:32:01,874 --> 00:32:08,234
Speaker 2: This place is the most bonkers, amazing, fantastic example of

676
00:32:08,314 --> 00:32:11,594
Speaker 2: someone that had a hobby and a collection and a

677
00:32:11,674 --> 00:32:16,754
Speaker 2: hyper focus and went all out. To me, it feels neurodivergent,

678
00:32:16,794 --> 00:32:20,034
Speaker 2: coded in the best possible way. And this was a

679
00:32:20,074 --> 00:32:23,314
Speaker 2: thing built by people that did not have phones to

680
00:32:23,394 --> 00:32:26,794
Speaker 2: distract them, that had a hobby and this was their life.

681
00:32:26,874 --> 00:32:30,194
Speaker 2: And it just made me think humans are so fascinating.

682
00:32:30,234 --> 00:32:32,794
Speaker 2: People are awesome, and in this age where everything is

683
00:32:32,874 --> 00:32:36,274
Speaker 2: just digital and online, we might not ever see another

684
00:32:36,314 --> 00:32:39,194
Speaker 2: Woodsy or another Woodsy's Gem shop. And I think collections

685
00:32:39,234 --> 00:32:43,314
Speaker 2: are so meaningful and fantastic and that we should encourage

686
00:32:43,354 --> 00:32:46,794
Speaker 2: them wherever possible. So that really changed my mind around collections.

687
00:32:46,834 --> 00:32:50,074
Speaker 2: I thought, you know what, this is awesome. I love this.

688
00:32:50,594 --> 00:32:52,274
Speaker 2: We need more Woodsies in our lives.

689
00:32:52,674 --> 00:32:53,314
Speaker 5: How did your.

690
00:32:53,274 --> 00:32:55,834
Speaker 3: Kids react to it? Could they connect with it and

691
00:32:55,914 --> 00:32:57,234
Speaker 3: see the value in it?

692
00:32:57,634 --> 00:33:01,114
Speaker 2: They loved it. Like this place, I cannot even describe you.

693
00:33:01,154 --> 00:33:04,594
Speaker 2: They've built like an Aladdin's cave of where you go in.

694
00:33:04,714 --> 00:33:08,034
Speaker 2: It is of someone's life's work to build a shop

695
00:33:08,114 --> 00:33:10,594
Speaker 2: that is just full of a cave for kids. They

696
00:33:10,674 --> 00:33:13,594
Speaker 2: built a hedge maze out the back that goes for

697
00:33:14,074 --> 00:33:17,034
Speaker 2: acres and acres like a full on hedge maze. Who

698
00:33:17,114 --> 00:33:20,634
Speaker 2: does this nowadays? I walked away just thinking that is

699
00:33:20,714 --> 00:33:23,154
Speaker 2: what we need more of, and that stuff's so rare

700
00:33:23,194 --> 00:33:25,954
Speaker 2: now where everything's kind of digital and fast, that this

701
00:33:26,114 --> 00:33:29,834
Speaker 2: family have built something around a collection and a hobby.

702
00:33:29,874 --> 00:33:30,674
Speaker 2: It was just awesome.

703
00:33:30,874 --> 00:33:33,994
Speaker 3: Yeah, everything's in the cloud now, and there's something so

704
00:33:34,394 --> 00:33:36,794
Speaker 3: seductive about actually having objects.

705
00:33:36,834 --> 00:33:38,714
Speaker 4: So I guess that's why kids collect rocks.

706
00:33:38,874 --> 00:33:40,594
Speaker 1: And I went down a bit of a wormhole because

707
00:33:40,634 --> 00:33:43,834
Speaker 1: I wanted to find like what things people were collecting.

708
00:33:43,914 --> 00:33:47,034
Speaker 1: And my favorite one is this guy, Jack Cop. He's

709
00:33:47,034 --> 00:33:51,674
Speaker 1: twenty four. He started collecting vacuum cleaners, so he had

710
00:33:51,674 --> 00:33:53,794
Speaker 1: a phobia a vacuum cleaners at a kid, and then

711
00:33:53,794 --> 00:33:57,234
Speaker 1: when he overcame that phobia at five, he became obsessed

712
00:33:57,274 --> 00:33:59,754
Speaker 1: with vacuum cleaners and how they work. So he's got

713
00:33:59,834 --> 00:34:03,514
Speaker 1: them dating back to like the nineteen fifties, these different

714
00:34:03,634 --> 00:34:06,914
Speaker 1: vacuum cleaners, and he has a whole room dedicated to them.

715
00:34:07,114 --> 00:34:08,754
Speaker 1: I've got one hundred and twenty of them and now

716
00:34:08,794 --> 00:34:09,634
Speaker 1: works for Dyson.

717
00:34:09,913 --> 00:34:13,274
Speaker 4: Oh that's such a nice.

718
00:34:12,514 --> 00:34:14,434
Speaker 2: I mean, I love that for him. I would struggle

719
00:34:14,473 --> 00:34:17,154
Speaker 2: with that because I think where of the generation where

720
00:34:17,234 --> 00:34:20,274
Speaker 2: we're very Mari Condo, like Marie Kondo's My God. And

721
00:34:20,314 --> 00:34:23,954
Speaker 2: so I think that it's that tension between wanting control

722
00:34:24,194 --> 00:34:27,553
Speaker 2: and wanting not to clutter your house, but then understanding

723
00:34:27,634 --> 00:34:30,594
Speaker 2: the value and flow state that kids can get into

724
00:34:30,674 --> 00:34:31,234
Speaker 2: with a collection.

725
00:34:31,514 --> 00:34:33,594
Speaker 3: I think this conversation has just made me realize that

726
00:34:33,834 --> 00:34:36,114
Speaker 3: rather than sort of feel a sort of pang of

727
00:34:36,154 --> 00:34:39,714
Speaker 3: irritation when I see a collection of rocks in our hallway,

728
00:34:40,034 --> 00:34:42,034
Speaker 3: I should in fact lean into the idea that this

729
00:34:42,194 --> 00:34:44,234
Speaker 3: is collecting and taking value in old things.

730
00:34:44,274 --> 00:34:44,834
Speaker 4: And that's good.

731
00:34:44,994 --> 00:34:45,234
Speaker 2: Yep.

732
00:34:46,154 --> 00:34:48,834
Speaker 3: To wrap up today's show, we wanted to share the

733
00:34:48,834 --> 00:34:51,834
Speaker 3: things that we are loving, sick things we want text

734
00:34:51,874 --> 00:34:54,114
Speaker 3: to our friends or put in the mom's group chat,

735
00:34:54,314 --> 00:34:54,994
Speaker 3: Mom's what do.

736
00:34:55,034 --> 00:34:58,274
Speaker 2: You got So summertime, my lips get really dry. I

737
00:34:58,314 --> 00:35:02,434
Speaker 2: have been using this for seven years, this one tube.

738
00:35:02,514 --> 00:35:05,154
Speaker 2: It's a nipple cream. I've been using it on my

739
00:35:05,194 --> 00:35:10,554
Speaker 2: lip oooh it's just out devastating. But instead of buying

740
00:35:10,554 --> 00:35:14,434
Speaker 2: another nipple cream, I got this. It's called Lano Lips.

741
00:35:14,554 --> 00:35:16,874
Speaker 2: I got it from Mecca. It's fifteen dollars a tube.

742
00:35:17,154 --> 00:35:20,994
Speaker 2: It is the best lip balm I've ever used. It's

743
00:35:20,994 --> 00:35:24,794
Speaker 2: on par with the nipple cream. It's called twelve hour

744
00:35:24,874 --> 00:35:28,754
Speaker 2: Overnight lip mask. It's not flavored, it's not glossy. It's

745
00:35:28,914 --> 00:35:33,314
Speaker 2: just like the most beautiful sort of lanoline lip balm

746
00:35:33,434 --> 00:35:33,993
Speaker 2: that I've used.

747
00:35:34,074 --> 00:35:37,993
Speaker 1: They're good two mons for like grazes aarmilano lips curly too.

748
00:35:38,034 --> 00:35:40,354
Speaker 1: But you can put it on like you know, kids, grays,

749
00:35:40,474 --> 00:35:42,873
Speaker 1: knees and stuff like that. It just softens everything like this.

750
00:35:42,954 --> 00:35:47,074
Speaker 2: It's like acid in at Stacey, hyaluronic acid EIGHTHA. Isn't

751
00:35:47,074 --> 00:35:48,993
Speaker 2: that what we're all suppesed to be slathering all over

752
00:35:49,034 --> 00:35:50,473
Speaker 2: ourselves slug mode at night?

753
00:35:50,634 --> 00:35:52,834
Speaker 1: Just use it as a full body cream.

754
00:35:53,394 --> 00:35:55,234
Speaker 2: So now I don't have to get my nipple cream

755
00:35:55,234 --> 00:35:57,393
Speaker 2: out anymore and feel weird about putting nipple cream on

756
00:35:57,394 --> 00:35:57,754
Speaker 2: my lips.

757
00:35:57,994 --> 00:36:00,913
Speaker 3: It's a sleeker packaging in the nipple cream, Amelia, What

758
00:36:00,954 --> 00:36:01,794
Speaker 3: have you got this week?

759
00:36:01,954 --> 00:36:02,754
Speaker 4: I've got a book.

760
00:36:02,874 --> 00:36:05,954
Speaker 3: It's called The Crucial Years, The Essential Guide to Mental

761
00:36:05,954 --> 00:36:09,994
Speaker 3: Health and Modern Puberty in Middle Childhood. So this is

762
00:36:10,074 --> 00:36:14,234
Speaker 3: by a psychologist, doctor Cheryl Zeigler. And the reason I

763
00:36:14,274 --> 00:36:17,354
Speaker 3: picked it up is because I'm finding that there's very

764
00:36:17,554 --> 00:36:22,513
Speaker 3: little literature around the ages of six to twelve You've

765
00:36:22,554 --> 00:36:25,873
Speaker 3: got all the books about babies and toddlers, you've got

766
00:36:25,914 --> 00:36:29,433
Speaker 3: all the books about teenagers, but these middle years do

767
00:36:29,514 --> 00:36:33,514
Speaker 3: feel a bit undercovered. The reason why that's particularly becoming

768
00:36:33,554 --> 00:36:36,914
Speaker 3: a problem is that puberty is happening earlier and earlier,

769
00:36:37,554 --> 00:36:41,754
Speaker 3: and so all these difficult conversations around sex and how kids'

770
00:36:41,754 --> 00:36:44,994
Speaker 3: bodies are changing, you're needing to think about that earlier

771
00:36:45,034 --> 00:36:47,714
Speaker 3: than you think. In fact, doctor Ziegler makes the point

772
00:36:47,714 --> 00:36:50,954
Speaker 3: in this book that puberty is starting three months earlier

773
00:36:50,994 --> 00:36:52,873
Speaker 3: with every decade since the Second World War.

774
00:36:53,674 --> 00:36:56,873
Speaker 4: So she says, look, it's not just one sex talk.

775
00:36:56,954 --> 00:36:59,354
Speaker 3: You need to be starting to think about having these

776
00:36:59,474 --> 00:37:03,634
Speaker 3: awkward conversations around the age of seven or eight. And

777
00:37:03,674 --> 00:37:06,513
Speaker 3: that's definitely not something that was on my radar before

778
00:37:06,554 --> 00:37:09,593
Speaker 3: I picked this bo The other big takeaway that I've

779
00:37:09,634 --> 00:37:12,394
Speaker 3: had from this is that this is a crucial age

780
00:37:12,394 --> 00:37:15,834
Speaker 3: for social skills development. She makes this point that kind

781
00:37:15,874 --> 00:37:18,234
Speaker 3: of haunts me, which is, if you think that your

782
00:37:18,314 --> 00:37:21,194
Speaker 3: kids are having trouble making friends, now, at least you

783
00:37:21,234 --> 00:37:24,234
Speaker 3: can set up a playdate. Once they're a teenager, you

784
00:37:24,434 --> 00:37:28,394
Speaker 3: cannot set up any more playdates. So I've basically become

785
00:37:28,394 --> 00:37:32,114
Speaker 3: a playdate obsessive now and I'm setting them up every weekend.

786
00:37:32,394 --> 00:37:33,714
Speaker 4: I don't know what Esther Parol.

787
00:37:33,434 --> 00:37:36,114
Speaker 3: Would say about that, but those are the two big

788
00:37:36,154 --> 00:37:38,594
Speaker 3: takeaways I've had, and they're kind of like consuming my

789
00:37:38,674 --> 00:37:39,393
Speaker 3: thoughts right now.

790
00:37:39,474 --> 00:37:40,034
Speaker 1: Sounds great.

791
00:37:40,114 --> 00:37:41,754
Speaker 2: Do you ever get the reciprocal playdate?

792
00:37:42,154 --> 00:37:42,834
Speaker 1: Very rarely.

793
00:37:42,994 --> 00:37:44,514
Speaker 4: I think I'm doing something wrong.

794
00:37:44,754 --> 00:37:47,433
Speaker 2: I feel the same. I'm always the playdate instigator and

795
00:37:47,474 --> 00:37:49,754
Speaker 2: the invitation never comes back the other way. But Esther

796
00:37:49,874 --> 00:37:52,274
Speaker 2: Perrell would say, you're doing the right thing, just like

797
00:37:52,474 --> 00:37:54,114
Speaker 2: have the cup of tea with the other Does the

798
00:37:54,154 --> 00:37:54,754
Speaker 2: parents stay?

799
00:37:55,034 --> 00:37:56,714
Speaker 4: And yes, the parents stayed.

800
00:37:56,714 --> 00:37:59,913
Speaker 3: And last weekend we had an Italian father over and

801
00:37:59,954 --> 00:38:03,034
Speaker 3: he bought a dessert wine, which I actually kind of loved, Like,

802
00:38:03,194 --> 00:38:05,274
Speaker 3: forget the leg and bring a dessert wine.

803
00:38:05,314 --> 00:38:06,954
Speaker 1: That's what we need to be doing on the weekends,

804
00:38:06,954 --> 00:38:09,714
Speaker 1: takeing Italian dessert wine to the soccer for activities.

805
00:38:10,034 --> 00:38:12,314
Speaker 2: What if you don't drink it's a bit risky to

806
00:38:12,354 --> 00:38:13,754
Speaker 2: take the old wine to the playdate.

807
00:38:14,234 --> 00:38:18,434
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think an Italian thinks that that's less risky. Maybe, Stacy,

808
00:38:18,434 --> 00:38:19,154
Speaker 3: what have you got?

809
00:38:19,354 --> 00:38:22,154
Speaker 1: So I'm going to sound a bit like Megan Markle

810
00:38:22,274 --> 00:38:24,433
Speaker 1: today with my recommendation and I'm not going to ask

811
00:38:24,474 --> 00:38:27,274
Speaker 1: you to like cut fruit up into a rainbow art

812
00:38:27,434 --> 00:38:30,274
Speaker 1: perfectly like I promise it is less involved than that.

813
00:38:31,194 --> 00:38:33,554
Speaker 1: My recommendation is to set up an email address for

814
00:38:33,594 --> 00:38:35,634
Speaker 1: your kids, not for them to use.

815
00:38:36,234 --> 00:38:36,794
Speaker 3: A friend of.

816
00:38:36,754 --> 00:38:38,114
Speaker 1: Ours did this, and we thought it was such a

817
00:38:38,114 --> 00:38:39,834
Speaker 1: good idea, so we set one up for our daughter

818
00:38:40,074 --> 00:38:43,354
Speaker 1: that we email her on so not like every day,

819
00:38:43,714 --> 00:38:46,034
Speaker 1: not every week, because Meghan said that she does it

820
00:38:46,074 --> 00:38:46,594
Speaker 1: every day.

821
00:38:46,714 --> 00:38:48,634
Speaker 4: She does it every day memory of each.

822
00:38:48,514 --> 00:38:51,473
Speaker 1: Day, yes, which boring. They're not going to go back

823
00:38:51,514 --> 00:38:55,634
Speaker 1: and read sixteen years of your emails from every single day,

824
00:38:55,714 --> 00:38:57,634
Speaker 1: like we're not doing that. We love our kids, but

825
00:38:57,714 --> 00:38:59,994
Speaker 1: not that much. I have generally sent them the night

826
00:39:00,034 --> 00:39:02,913
Speaker 1: before her birthday, and also just at times when I've

827
00:39:02,914 --> 00:39:04,473
Speaker 1: had one of those days where I'm like, we had

828
00:39:04,554 --> 00:39:06,634
Speaker 1: a really good day today, like one of those ones

829
00:39:06,634 --> 00:39:07,074
Speaker 1: where you're like.

830
00:39:07,234 --> 00:39:10,794
Speaker 3: It makes me so anxious that I'm not doing this, Stacy, No, But.

831
00:39:10,834 --> 00:39:13,714
Speaker 1: I'm talking maybe two or three emails a year, like okay,

832
00:39:13,794 --> 00:39:16,034
Speaker 1: does it away on you like every night when your

833
00:39:16,034 --> 00:39:17,714
Speaker 1: head hits the pillow when you think I didn't send

834
00:39:17,714 --> 00:39:20,154
Speaker 1: an email today, No, no, no, I often forget about

835
00:39:20,194 --> 00:39:21,794
Speaker 1: it and then it pops back up, and I think

836
00:39:21,794 --> 00:39:24,274
Speaker 1: I should do it. But I went back through and

837
00:39:24,434 --> 00:39:27,114
Speaker 1: read my emails to my daughter the other night. So

838
00:39:27,394 --> 00:39:29,754
Speaker 1: this is not great. I've only done maybe ten in

839
00:39:29,954 --> 00:39:32,194
Speaker 1: four years. But I loved looking at them because there

840
00:39:32,194 --> 00:39:34,314
Speaker 1: were things in those emails that I had forgotten.

841
00:39:34,314 --> 00:39:36,794
Speaker 4: Oh my god, were things that we had done I failed.

842
00:39:36,834 --> 00:39:38,154
Speaker 4: I need to start doing this.

843
00:39:38,314 --> 00:39:41,114
Speaker 2: So can I offer the low fi version of this? Yes, Stacey,

844
00:39:41,234 --> 00:39:43,634
Speaker 2: I did this when my first is such a first

845
00:39:43,674 --> 00:39:45,393
Speaker 2: child thing. I did this when they were born, and

846
00:39:45,434 --> 00:39:48,474
Speaker 2: I haven't looked at the email since. But instead I

847
00:39:48,514 --> 00:39:51,634
Speaker 2: started a Google doc called Kids Funnies and share it

848
00:39:51,674 --> 00:39:53,634
Speaker 2: with my husband and every time the kids say something

849
00:39:53,674 --> 00:39:55,393
Speaker 2: funny or kid, we pop it in there and we

850
00:39:55,394 --> 00:39:57,473
Speaker 2: don't look at it for like a year, and then

851
00:39:57,514 --> 00:39:59,194
Speaker 2: we'll go get out the Kids Funnies and have a

852
00:39:59,194 --> 00:40:01,714
Speaker 2: look and it does the same thing but without having

853
00:40:01,714 --> 00:40:03,954
Speaker 2: to remember a password or log into something.

854
00:40:04,234 --> 00:40:06,194
Speaker 1: Yeah that's great, Okay, I want to Google doc.

855
00:40:06,274 --> 00:40:08,554
Speaker 3: But is part of it also that then your kids

856
00:40:08,594 --> 00:40:11,754
Speaker 3: do have a Gmail address that's not like really convoluted

857
00:40:11,834 --> 00:40:13,634
Speaker 3: because you nabbed it for them when they.

858
00:40:13,514 --> 00:40:14,634
Speaker 4: Were Yeah, well it is.

859
00:40:14,754 --> 00:40:17,474
Speaker 1: It's her full name, but now I'm worried that Gmail

860
00:40:17,554 --> 00:40:19,714
Speaker 1: just won't even be a thing and it'll like get

861
00:40:19,794 --> 00:40:21,714
Speaker 1: rid of it by the time she's old enough to

862
00:40:21,714 --> 00:40:22,234
Speaker 1: look at it.

863
00:40:23,314 --> 00:40:25,074
Speaker 2: That is all we have time for on Parenting out

864
00:40:25,114 --> 00:40:27,714
Speaker 2: Loud this week. Hey, a massive thanks to our team

865
00:40:27,954 --> 00:40:29,954
Speaker 2: that makes this show. We couldn't do it without you, guys,

866
00:40:29,994 --> 00:40:34,194
Speaker 2: group EPs, Root, Divine, producers Leoporgius and Sashtanic, and junior

867
00:40:34,234 --> 00:40:37,754
Speaker 2: content producer Tessa Kodovic. Have a great wait guys, we'll

868
00:40:37,754 --> 00:40:39,034
Speaker 2: talk to you next Saturday morning.

869
00:40:39,194 --> 00:40:42,074
Speaker 1: Bye bye.

870
00:40:45,554 --> 00:40:48,433
Speaker 2: Mummy acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which

871
00:40:48,434 --> 00:40:49,834
Speaker 2: we have recorded this podcast.