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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mea podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mumma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and

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Speaker 2: waters that this podcast is recorded.

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Speaker 3: On Hello and welcome to Parenting Out Loud. I am

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Speaker 3: Jesse Stevens, and I am joined by Amelia Lester Hi Jesse, Hello,

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Speaker 3: and MoMA MEA's deputy editor Stacy Here. Hello, to talk

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Speaker 3: about some of the stories that dominated the week. Because

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Speaker 3: if parents are thinking about it, we're talking about it

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Speaker 3: on today's show. Sleep separation could be the secret to

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Speaker 3: a better quality of life. And one of us is

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Speaker 3: a very early adopter. Plus, why don't men RSVP to

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Speaker 3: party invitations? It's time to get into the hopeless dad's

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Speaker 3: debate and good night to the bedtime story. What happens

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Speaker 3: when parents stop reading to kids. We're starting to see.

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Speaker 1: But first in case you, mister post pardon just got

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Speaker 1: a glow up. Perhaps you're like me and you remember

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Speaker 1: that time as a difficult one. Mesh undies, laundry piles,

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Speaker 1: occasional abouts of crying on the bathroom or kitchen floor anymorey, yes,

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Speaker 1: hand is up, but no no, there are these things

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Speaker 1: called postpartum retreats popping up. They are for mothers to

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Speaker 1: be mothered and for those who can afford them. A

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Speaker 1: writer for US Vogue wrote about one at a Waldorf

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Speaker 1: astoria in California. She spent two nights there two weeks

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Speaker 1: after giving birth, and she enjoyed all sorts of marvelous things,

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Speaker 1: round the clock baby care with duelers on demand. She

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Speaker 1: seriously just had an iPad and she could just be like,

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Speaker 1: I need someone right now, facials, fresh meals, massages, no

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Speaker 1: crying on the kitchen floor. There are others across the

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Speaker 1: United States, and they're now also in Australia. There's one

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Speaker 1: in Sydney's Double Bay, and there is one in Melbourne.

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Speaker 1: These don't come cheap, however, the one in Melbourne is

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Speaker 1: fifty two hundred dollars for four nights. Ooh. Now, we

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Speaker 1: should say that the postpart of retreat is not a

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Speaker 1: new idea. There are many cultures of the world that

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Speaker 1: do recognize the importance of giving women a break after childbirth. So,

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Speaker 1: for instance, in South Korea, the tradition is called Sanu

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Speaker 1: Jewelry one and it refers to care centers when new

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Speaker 1: mothers check in and then they get these nourishing broths

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Speaker 1: and they get really taken care of for weeks, often

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Speaker 1: even months after birth. And there's actually a similar tradition

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Speaker 1: in China where a postpart and parent rests for a

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Speaker 1: month in a kind of confinement and family members attend

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Speaker 1: to the housework and to the older kids. I wish

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Speaker 1: the Western take on this idea, which is brilliant, was

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Speaker 1: accessible to more people. I mean, I'm sure in Scandinavia

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Speaker 1: they probably have some kind of government funded program where

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Speaker 1: everyone gets it. And I think it's really important these

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Speaker 1: days because you and new moms are able to live

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Speaker 1: near family members, and for me in particular, it's a

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Speaker 1: really important corrective to a trend that I have experienced

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Speaker 1: firsthand in the US. So my first baby I gave

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Speaker 1: birth to in a so called baby friendly hospital. This

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Speaker 1: is a new think in hospitals across America. What this

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Speaker 1: basically amounts to is there's no crash, there's no formula,

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Speaker 1: you have to breastfeed, and there's no assistance at night

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Speaker 1: because the baby has to sleep with you the whole time.

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Speaker 1: So it's baby friendly, but it is not mother friendly.

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Speaker 1: And I'm here for the focus on mothers a little more. Jesse,

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Speaker 1: would you want to go to one of these.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I'm not sure if I would. I

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Speaker 3: have read a lot about these. I read one article

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Speaker 3: that kind of said, is it I really like all

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Speaker 3: the supportant terms of food and you know, even lactation

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Speaker 3: consultants and that kind of stuff is great, but the broth,

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Speaker 3: the broth broth. But one kind of criticism was saying,

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Speaker 3: women don't need a baby robe embroidered with initials, like

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Speaker 3: we've just there are some things that are probably a

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Speaker 3: little too far.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what the Vogue rider got at the Waldorf

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Speaker 1: Hotel in California. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So what this essentially is, as you alluded to, is

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Speaker 3: what Trevor Noah has talked about this among you know,

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Speaker 3: lots of researchers, which is we all like lost our

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Speaker 3: community and now we have to pay to get them back, exactly.

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Speaker 3: And so in an ideal world, you wouldn't have to

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Speaker 3: pay for this kind of service, it would just be

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Speaker 3: on offer. And as someone in I have such privilege

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Speaker 3: when it comes to family and support, and so I

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Speaker 3: think I felt like I sort of got this, like

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Speaker 3: I was able to rely on people who could bring

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Speaker 3: meals and if I needed someone to hold the baby,

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Speaker 3: I could ask them. But I do worry about the

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Speaker 3: disparity here and what class has access to this type

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Speaker 3: of thing, because postpartum depression has so much to do

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Speaker 3: with the environment following birth, and I worry that if

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Speaker 3: it's like, oh, you pay for this, you pay for this,

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Speaker 3: you pay for this, it means that our standard of

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Speaker 3: basic care kind of goes, oh, well, that's all outsourced.

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Speaker 3: Ideally hospitals would do a little bit more of this, maybe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, as opposed to a kick in the pants and

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Speaker 1: some MESHONDI is exactly right, they see what about you.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if it's a result of having a

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Speaker 2: baby who was in special care. So I was in

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Speaker 2: hospital for longer than a lot of new mums are.

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Speaker 3: But how long were you in hospital?

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Speaker 2: I was in for three weeks before I had my daughter,

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Speaker 2: and then about ten days after she was born. That

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Speaker 2: is a long it's a long time. I knew the

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Speaker 2: meal rotation of that hospital like the back of my friend.

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Speaker 1: I got to have a whole month's.

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Speaker 2: Worth a bet, but I basically had to be dragged

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Speaker 2: out of that place, Like I felt very anxious when

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Speaker 2: I was away from the nurses and the heart rate

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Speaker 2: monitors and all of the things, and so I think

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Speaker 2: if something like this had been within my financial reach,

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Speaker 2: I absolutely would have taken it, because it felt like

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Speaker 2: whipplash to go home and to have almost no one

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Speaker 2: around because I'd been in hospital for so long. My

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Speaker 2: husband had to go back to work a couple of

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Speaker 2: weeks after I got home, and it did feel very

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Speaker 2: much like you're alone, and so I and I think

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Speaker 2: there's a certain level of guilt. Not everyone feels, but

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Speaker 2: I felt very bad if I asked anyone to help

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Speaker 2: me with anything, even if you know, and I think

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Speaker 2: a lot of women feel that they don't want to

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Speaker 2: be a burden. They're like, why am I finding this

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Speaker 2: harder than the average person, So you don't want to

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Speaker 2: reach out. And it almost feels like if you could

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Speaker 2: pay for this, obviously not that amount of money, because

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Speaker 2: that's not achievable for most of us, but if you

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Speaker 2: could pay, it almost takes the guilt away from that,

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Speaker 2: like it's a service, it's transactional. You're helping me and

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Speaker 2: I'm getting something from that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember thinking that if I asked. There were

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Speaker 3: instances where I probably would have liked to help, but

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Speaker 3: I didn't want to look like I thought, your narrative

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Speaker 3: goes so funny. You go, they'll think I don't want

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Speaker 3: to spend time with my baby exactly like they'll think

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Speaker 3: they'll think I had this, that there would be judgment

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Speaker 3: towards me more than an imposition on them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: But I want to table one criticism that I heard

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Speaker 3: from a midwife about this kind of thing, and it's

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Speaker 3: that with too too much help. I don't know if

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Speaker 3: I agree with this, but I was interviewing her about

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Speaker 3: these kind of providers, and she was saying, when you're

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Speaker 3: in a situation where you are overwhelmed with expertise, whether

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Speaker 3: that be this is how you swaddle, this is nappy,

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Speaker 3: this is breastfeeding, it can undermine the instincts of the

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Speaker 3: parents a little bit. And I know that a lot

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Speaker 3: of people poo pooh the idea of instincts. I think

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Speaker 3: that a lot of us actually just need to learn

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Speaker 3: how to do things. But she said, you shouldn't feel

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Speaker 3: as though you need a university degree before you leave

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Speaker 3: the hospital with a baby, Like, we've got to make

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Speaker 3: sure that we're not telling parents that this is so

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Speaker 3: hard and so complicated that you need to do twelve

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Speaker 3: classes a day in order to cope. Going and working

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Speaker 3: it out is kind of part of the experience.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's it. I feel like we are so

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Speaker 2: overly prepared now, like we do courses. People here who

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Speaker 2: are pregnant, we kind of are saying to them, well,

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Speaker 2: you've got two jobs now, because you've got to keep

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Speaker 2: up with all of the appointments and the lessons and

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Speaker 2: all of the things. So maybe it does get in

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Speaker 2: the way of your instincts and just well, I've just

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Speaker 2: got to get through this rough patch and then we'll

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Speaker 2: be fine. An article about the benefits of getting asleep

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Speaker 2: to of caught my eye this week, and I need

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Speaker 2: everyone to know about it. Writing for The Conversation, Monash

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Speaker 2: University's psychology fellow, Alex Malaw explored the many reasons otherwise

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Speaker 2: perfectly happy couples might choose to sleep separately, and how

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Speaker 2: it can actually lead to a better night's sleep. She said, well,

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Speaker 2: many people say they prefer to sleep or sleep better

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Speaker 2: next to their partner when scientists measure sleep objectively, such

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Speaker 2: as through an electro in cephalogram, and yes, I did

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Speaker 2: practice saying that ten times before we hit record. When

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Speaker 2: they use the egs to assess brain waves. The data

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Speaker 2: actually showed poor asleep quality when co sleeping, so some

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Speaker 2: reasons obviously that people might choose to be in separate

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Speaker 2: beds is conflicting sleep schedules. One person snores or has

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Speaker 2: sleep apnea, or insomnia, sleep talking. The list goes on.

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Speaker 2: But the other main catalyst for a sleep divorce can

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Speaker 2: be when kids come into the mix and suddenly sleep

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Speaker 2: is the most precious but often hard to achieve commodity

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Speaker 2: in your life. And now I have something to confess.

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Speaker 2: I have been happily sleep divorced for five years, not

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Speaker 2: actually divorced, five years nearly, which is right around the

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Speaker 2: time I started getting pregnancy insomnia, and I'm just never

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Speaker 2: going back. So would either of you consider this? I'm

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Speaker 2: so interested.

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Speaker 3: I have questions for you. First, please, pregnancy and somnia starts. Yes,

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Speaker 3: I was in exactly the same position, and I would

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Speaker 3: go I was like, I can't be up and down,

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Speaker 3: I can't worry about you. Yes, so I have it

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Speaker 3: to separate myself often when the baby comes. If you're

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Speaker 3: going to go, all right, let's take shifts so that

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Speaker 3: we're both not losing sleep. Tell me about the next

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Speaker 3: stage where you're going. You know what I actually like

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Speaker 3: having my own space with a Now how old your

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Speaker 3: daughter for.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, four five years talked to me about that.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing.

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Speaker 2: It was survival mode at the start. It was it

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Speaker 2: was I needed to sleep, he needed to sleep, and

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Speaker 2: so we would take turns with the monitor. Someone would

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Speaker 2: take a shift, and then it was kind of like,

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Speaker 2: look at this bed with the nice linen and I've

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Speaker 2: put on it, and look how dark I can have

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Speaker 2: the room when you like to wake up with the sun.

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Speaker 2: And look at how no one stole my quilt in

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Speaker 2: the middle of the night, and it just snowball to

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Speaker 2: the point where we both were sleeping so much better

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Speaker 2: by sleeping separately, that we both went I think we

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Speaker 2: just have to do that all the time now.

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Speaker 3: And the most urgent question, I mean, how many bloody

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Speaker 3: bedrooms do you have?

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Speaker 2: This is the thing, This is a big privilege to

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Speaker 2: be able to do. Is I live in the western

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Speaker 2: suburbs of Sydney, so we are very lucky to have

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Speaker 2: three bedrooms. But this is why we can only have

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Speaker 2: one child. There's no more bedrooms available. I'm not willing

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Speaker 2: to give mine up. I need to keep it so

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Speaker 2: those kids would be sharing, but it's just worked out

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Speaker 2: so much better. And I have to say, like, I

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Speaker 2: love my husband, but I love him a lot more

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Speaker 2: when I can't hear his snoring or experience the wwe

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Speaker 2: like body slams that he manages to do every time

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Speaker 2: he turns over. So this is definitely a good solution

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Speaker 2: if you're experiencing that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I went deep on this after you mentioned it.

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Speaker 1: I was really curious about when the double bed custom

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Speaker 1: came about, because when you watch old movies and TV shows,

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Speaker 1: the married couples do go to sleep into single beds.

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Speaker 1: So it turns out that it's very recently that we

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Speaker 1: decided that couples have to sleep in the same bed,

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Speaker 1: and we're talking the sixties. Before then, it was actually

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Speaker 1: seen as healthier and more modern for a married couple

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Speaker 1: or a partnered couple to sleep in separate beds. And

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Speaker 1: I love this detail, which is that Victorian doctors said

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Speaker 1: that the weaker sleeper would drain all the vitality from

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Speaker 1: the stronger person.

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Speaker 3: That's exactly what happened.

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Speaker 1: And so it's a very recent thing and it kind

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Speaker 1: of reminds me. I find it a bit confronting. I

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Speaker 1: won't lie when you told me about it. There is

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Speaker 1: a kind of instinctive idea of like, is there something

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Speaker 1: wrong with their relationship, because it's so ingrained in us

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Speaker 1: that married couples sleep in the same bed. But then

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Speaker 1: I got thinking about it and I remember that Esther

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Speaker 1: Perell's big thing is that we keep expect one person

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Speaker 1: to be everything, to fulfill all functions, including to be

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Speaker 1: sleep compatible. And this is just taking a little bit

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Speaker 1: of the pressure off. Now that said, I do not

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Speaker 1: have an extra bedroom for people in my situation, I

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Speaker 1: would recommend mouth tape.

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Speaker 3: We have a like a day bed in Luna's room,

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Speaker 3: so it's like if you sleep separately, yeap, you go

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Speaker 3: and you sleep and it's tiny, like you roll off

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Speaker 3: and break it arm. But we did that for the

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Speaker 3: first six months. Luke has slept in the nursery on

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Speaker 3: the day bed and Luna and I were in the

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Speaker 3: big room with the big bed. But it was interesting

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Speaker 3: the moment we decided to come back and I was like,

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Speaker 3: I don't get to sprawl, I don't a blanket like this.

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Speaker 1: Is so did you consider ever keeping you.

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Speaker 3: See other bed was more comfortable. I have time for it.

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Speaker 3: And then I was having a think about what the stigma.

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Speaker 1: Is, right, And there is a stigma.

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Speaker 3: There is stigma, and it's to do with intimacy. And

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Speaker 3: I also think that it's a suggestion that it will

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Speaker 3: absolutely kill yourself life, right, because come on, you've got

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Speaker 3: to sleep the same bed.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, that is the number one question I get asked.

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Speaker 1: We won't ask you.

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Speaker 3: What's funny about that, right, is that it's like how

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Speaker 3: many people are rolling over at two am and being like,

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Speaker 3: now that I can feel you there, we should have

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Speaker 3: spontaneous two am sex and that keeps our relationships strong. Like, no,

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Speaker 3: you wake up at two am, you hit the other

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Speaker 3: person in the face. I do it all the time.

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Speaker 3: To Luca exactly, he mumbles, sleep talk, we fight, and

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Speaker 3: then in the morning we're shitty at each other, like

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Speaker 3: any sort of intimacy is not happening.

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Speaker 2: No, I think you are much more likely to want

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Speaker 2: to be intimate with your partner if you don't want

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Speaker 2: to kill them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: And some of the studies she cited in this piece

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Speaker 2: spoke about how clients reported that sleeping alone can alleviate

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Speaker 2: some of the anxiety they have around sleep, because if

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Speaker 2: they're the person who's disturbing the other person. If they're

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Speaker 2: the snorer, then they're having less quality sleep because they're

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Speaker 2: worried about waking the other person. So they've actually found

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Speaker 2: that people sleeping separately means that there's not that stress

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Speaker 2: as they're going to sleep themselves.

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Speaker 3: I also find that when I've gone through periods of insomnia,

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Speaker 3: having someone beside you who's asleep is really distressing. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's like it's real because.

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Speaker 1: You go wish, Oh, you're furious, You're absolutely.

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Speaker 3: Curious, angry. And it also means I've a partner who

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Speaker 3: goes to bed a lot earlier than me, and that's

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Speaker 3: bedtime in our house, so I have to go to bed.

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Speaker 3: And if I fall into the habit of then scrolling

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Speaker 3: on my phone for the two hours where he's asleep

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Speaker 3: and I'm not ready to go to sleep yet, terrible

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Speaker 3: for your brain. So it's like I've had to start

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Speaker 3: to do like the Kindle or whatever. You can't you

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Speaker 3: can't read a print book.

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Speaker 1: Can you. This also reminded me of I used to

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Speaker 1: live in Japan, and when you travel around Japan you

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Speaker 1: go to traditional inns. They often have a tatarmi matte

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Speaker 1: arrangement where whole families will sleep in one room onto Tarmi.

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Speaker 1: So it just was a reminder that the thing that

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Speaker 1: we think is the default is not the default for

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Speaker 1: a lot of people around the world and through human

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Speaker 1: he is.

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Speaker 3: It a really big space where the family will sleep play.

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Speaker 1: Not especially big, but it feels like it's a very

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Speaker 1: different way of sleeping because instead of being given this

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Speaker 1: prescribed rectangle to sleep on, Yeah, there's a sense of

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Speaker 1: like you've got more latitude to move around because you're

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Speaker 1: all just sleeping however you like and in whatever shape

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Speaker 1: you like in this room. So cool. I want to

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Speaker 1: talk about a particular type of person who I think

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Speaker 1: we all know, who we may even have in our lives.

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Speaker 1: Right now, let me back up and say why I

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Speaker 1: started thinking about this. A Shanty, the singer A Shanty,

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Speaker 1: and the rapper Nelly recently had a baby together, which

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Speaker 1: is lovely and Nellie seems very happy about it. But

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Speaker 1: in a recent interview, a joint interview, he was sitting

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Speaker 1: beside a Shanty and he said to her baby, I'll

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Speaker 1: give you the world, but I just ain't changing no diaper,

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Speaker 1: and as Shanty responded, the only way women from Millennia

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Speaker 1: have responded to such a statement, which was with an

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Speaker 1: eye roll. A similar display of this was evident in

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Speaker 1: an interview that Nick Cannon did recently. The singer who

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Speaker 1: you may know, has twelve children, and the interview. For

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Speaker 1: some reason, this interview was taking place on pilates mats.

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Speaker 1: But I don't know why that is. But the interviewer

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Speaker 1: asked Nick to run through his twelve children's names, and

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Speaker 1: let's just listen to what happened next. What are their names?

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Speaker 4: You want?

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Speaker 2: You want all twelve twelve names?

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Speaker 4: This is where I usually get in trouble.

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Speaker 1: Why because you don't know all of that.

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Speaker 4: I know all of them, but like I o L

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Speaker 4: last night, you see keep me, keep me honest. There's

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Speaker 4: rock Roll, Golden, Powerful, Rise, Onyx, Legendary, Zion, zillion Zin

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Speaker 4: And just see this as where I who.

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Speaker 1: Many you're missing too?

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Speaker 4: I'm missing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a little awkward. That's where a hut's off.

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Speaker 1: So look, these two men seem like nice people, but

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Speaker 1: they are what I would call hopeless dads. And these

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Speaker 1: are dads. They're not deeply problematic in any way, but

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Speaker 1: they're just kind of hopeless when it comes to the

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Speaker 1: task of raising children. So now that I've named this

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Speaker 1: phenomenon and described this type of person, I suspect you're

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Speaker 1: going to have a lot of examples for me and

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Speaker 1: the newsletter writer Melinda Wehnemoya, who has a great parenting newsletter,

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Speaker 1: had one recently. She asked, do dads know how to RSVP?

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Speaker 1: She wrote, I'd love to know what goes through dad's

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Speaker 1: minds when they receive kid party invitations. I don't mean

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Speaker 1: this in a snarky way. I am truly curious and

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Speaker 1: want to understand do they think not my department or eh,

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Speaker 1: my partner must be on this invite and they'll take

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Speaker 1: care of it. So I can really relate to that.

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Speaker 1: I just was planning a kid's birthday party, and as

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Speaker 1: a little social experiment, I did send half the invitations

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Speaker 1: to the dads on the parent contact list and have

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Speaker 1: the invitations to the mums.

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Speaker 3: And what did you find?

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Speaker 1: Well, it was a little predictable. The women responded and

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00:18:22,765 --> 00:18:24,925
Speaker 1: the men did not. So I just started sending the

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Speaker 1: men extremely passive, aggressive, polite messages saying, Hey, any chance

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Speaker 1: that you know whether you can make it to this

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Speaker 1: kid's birthday party. Some of them just never responded to me.

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Speaker 1: And then showed up at the party. So at this

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Speaker 1: point I need to make clear that this is obviously

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Speaker 1: not all men. I'm not doing that eye rolling at

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Speaker 1: all men comedy routine that's almost become a cliche at

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Speaker 1: this point. But the question I want to ask you

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Speaker 1: both is do we deal with the hopeless dads just

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Speaker 1: by kind of shrugging our shoulders and figuring that's how

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Speaker 1: men are. Or are these hopeless dads actually creating very

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Speaker 1: real domestic labor imbalances and kind of getting away with

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Speaker 1: it under the guys of being hopeless.

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Speaker 3: They are, and part of it is weaponized in competence

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Speaker 3: in terms of it just gets too hard to have

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Speaker 3: them do the task, so you know, women step in,

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Speaker 3: and that leads to serious inequality and I think resentment

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Speaker 3: within a relationship. But there was such a fantastic point

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Speaker 3: in this newsletter that I think really highlighted why some

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Speaker 3: dad's about an rsvping, and it's that if you have

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Speaker 3: never organized a kid's birthday party, you don't understand how

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Speaker 3: important rsvping is. And so the reality is that mostly

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Speaker 3: it's mother's doing it. Having done it, they're going I

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Speaker 3: should let them know asap so that they can book it,

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Speaker 3: whereas dads are going, what does it matter if I

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Speaker 3: show up or I don't.

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Speaker 1: And the reason why it matters is because if you

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Speaker 1: do not have enough goodie bags, yeah, all hell will break.

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Speaker 3: Loose, exactly right, and I'll be your kid crying. And

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Speaker 3: women know that, not because it is innate to women,

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Speaker 3: but because it has been so practiced, and.

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Speaker 1: They don't teach us that the POSTPARTU and retreat the

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Speaker 1: importance of having enough goodie bag. We just have to

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Speaker 1: learn that we learn.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's an important mantra, right because even cooking,

401
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Speaker 3: I didn't cook before and I still can't cook, but

402
00:20:19,165 --> 00:20:21,765
Speaker 3: guess what, there has to be something on a plate, right,

403
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Speaker 3: So you set up systems, you set up processes, you

404
00:20:24,845 --> 00:20:28,125
Speaker 3: do trial and error, you work it out. And the

405
00:20:28,245 --> 00:20:31,805
Speaker 3: idea that you've got to let dads fail a bit

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Speaker 3: and work it out and make mistakes, I think is

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Speaker 3: just a really important one. Like if it's that they

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Speaker 3: don't RSVP and then they show up, and.

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Speaker 1: Are you able to do that and step back? And

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Speaker 1: I also a related question to this is I think

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Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong. You have used the fair

412
00:20:46,965 --> 00:20:49,764
Speaker 1: play playing cards? Can you explain what those are and

413
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Speaker 1: what your experience was with them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the fair play cards. I just so recommend them

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Speaker 3: to everyone and they have every Have you heard of them, Stacy?

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Speaker 1: Yes? Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So it has everything that happens in a household, from

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Speaker 3: like who sorts out the house Internet to who does

419
00:21:05,845 --> 00:21:09,325
Speaker 3: dental kids dental, to who does clothes, all that kind

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Speaker 3: of stuff, and we sorted it out and most of

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00:21:12,565 --> 00:21:16,405
Speaker 3: the lunar stuff was on me. And I laugh with

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Speaker 3: friends that it's like there's never a discussion that clothes

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Speaker 3: are on you, that when you go away, packing is

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Speaker 3: on you. Yet somehow it is, and you know, Luca

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Speaker 3: does take it. Turns out there a few thinks he's

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Speaker 3: doing like CIMS or whatever, which I would say sometimes

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Speaker 3: I'm quite happy with that. I will also say this

428
00:21:39,045 --> 00:21:41,685
Speaker 3: is still a massive issue, and I think those examples

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Speaker 3: highlight that. But I reckon that we're watching a shift.

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Speaker 2: In real time.

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Speaker 3: Like I was thinking about the nineties and your Homo

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Speaker 3: Simpson and your Ray Romano, and like the stereotypical bumbling

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Speaker 3: fool dad who didn't know how to do anything and

434
00:21:57,085 --> 00:21:58,765
Speaker 3: just set a funny joke every now and then.

435
00:21:58,725 --> 00:22:00,205
Speaker 4: You're going to work right in front of me, or

436
00:22:00,285 --> 00:22:01,365
Speaker 4: I can keep an eye on you.

437
00:22:01,365 --> 00:22:01,845
Speaker 3: You got that?

438
00:22:06,365 --> 00:22:08,005
Speaker 4: Who do you think you're dealing with?

439
00:22:08,085 --> 00:22:08,165
Speaker 2: You?

440
00:22:09,484 --> 00:22:11,925
Speaker 3: I may seem, but that's just to get your mother

441
00:22:12,005 --> 00:22:17,645
Speaker 3: to mad asked me to do stuff. And then I

442
00:22:17,645 --> 00:22:19,484
Speaker 3: was looking into this research that said that in the

443
00:22:19,565 --> 00:22:25,085
Speaker 3: nineteen eighties, forty three percent of fathers said they'd never

444
00:22:25,165 --> 00:22:27,605
Speaker 3: changed a nappy. This in the US, forty three percent

445
00:22:27,645 --> 00:22:30,005
Speaker 3: of fathers had never changed a nappy. Now that number

446
00:22:30,045 --> 00:22:34,445
Speaker 3: has dropped to just three percents. That's enormous. And so

447
00:22:34,685 --> 00:22:37,925
Speaker 3: even like from in an Australian context, you've got how

448
00:22:38,005 --> 00:22:40,484
Speaker 3: other dad's dad, like Hamish Blake's podcast, You've got two

449
00:22:40,565 --> 00:22:44,325
Speaker 3: doting dads with Maddy j dadding, and fatherhood is becoming

450
00:22:44,445 --> 00:22:46,445
Speaker 3: a verb in a way that motherhood.

451
00:22:46,885 --> 00:22:50,765
Speaker 1: Okay it has been, but I need to confess something. Yeah,

452
00:22:50,845 --> 00:22:53,405
Speaker 1: I get annoyed at the dad's dadding as well. Yeah,

453
00:22:53,445 --> 00:22:55,284
Speaker 1: tell me, tell me it's just like it. Am I

454
00:22:55,405 --> 00:22:57,605
Speaker 1: just setting that up to fail because I'm annoyed at

455
00:22:57,645 --> 00:23:00,044
Speaker 1: the hopeless dads And then when the dads start talking

456
00:23:00,045 --> 00:23:02,525
Speaker 1: about dadding, I'm sort of annoyed at them too.

457
00:23:03,205 --> 00:23:06,405
Speaker 3: I see, I really like it, I really welcome it,

458
00:23:06,525 --> 00:23:10,885
Speaker 3: and I listened to a series of How the Dad's

459
00:23:10,925 --> 00:23:13,284
Speaker 3: Dad when I was pregnant, and it actually gave me

460
00:23:13,405 --> 00:23:17,885
Speaker 3: so many tips and insights into parenting from fathers. And

461
00:23:17,925 --> 00:23:20,525
Speaker 3: I think that making those communities, like we're talking about

462
00:23:20,565 --> 00:23:23,165
Speaker 3: the postpartum retreats, right, You then go to a mother's

463
00:23:23,165 --> 00:23:27,125
Speaker 3: group and there is all this shared knowledge and wisdom

464
00:23:27,445 --> 00:23:30,564
Speaker 3: that goes between women. And in defense of some of

465
00:23:30,605 --> 00:23:33,484
Speaker 3: those fathers, they have no equivalent. There's no kind of

466
00:23:33,925 --> 00:23:37,004
Speaker 3: fathers all sitting down and working out how they're going

467
00:23:37,085 --> 00:23:38,725
Speaker 3: to do this. I think there is some isolags.

468
00:23:38,925 --> 00:23:41,925
Speaker 1: I lost that idea for them, me too. So here's

469
00:23:42,125 --> 00:23:46,965
Speaker 1: how you replied to what'sapp message is at a party exactly.

470
00:23:47,045 --> 00:23:50,244
Speaker 2: But there are some things that they have just probably

471
00:23:50,405 --> 00:23:53,685
Speaker 2: never done in their entire life, particularly when it's a

472
00:23:53,725 --> 00:23:56,485
Speaker 2: father with the daughter. Like realize that my husband has

473
00:23:56,484 --> 00:23:59,285
Speaker 2: never tied a hair elastic in his entire life, because

474
00:23:59,325 --> 00:24:01,805
Speaker 2: why would he. So that was a steep lon girl

475
00:24:01,965 --> 00:24:04,685
Speaker 2: that he needed to go on and practice on my hair,

476
00:24:04,765 --> 00:24:07,244
Speaker 2: so he wasn't doing it on a moving target to

477
00:24:07,365 --> 00:24:09,365
Speaker 2: know how to do that. And I think there are

478
00:24:09,405 --> 00:24:12,285
Speaker 2: some things like that, yeah, will have just never come

479
00:24:12,405 --> 00:24:15,965
Speaker 2: across their desk. But there are other things like rsvping

480
00:24:15,965 --> 00:24:19,004
Speaker 2: tool party that aren't really forgivable, and they should know,

481
00:24:19,165 --> 00:24:21,645
Speaker 2: and it is good to see that the pendulum swinging

482
00:24:21,685 --> 00:24:22,484
Speaker 2: back the other way.

483
00:24:22,725 --> 00:24:25,685
Speaker 1: I also think that when it comes to talking about

484
00:24:25,845 --> 00:24:29,805
Speaker 1: hopeless dads, what we're really saying is is it okay

485
00:24:29,845 --> 00:24:33,445
Speaker 1: to let them? Like back to that idea, So, for instance,

486
00:24:33,725 --> 00:24:39,325
Speaker 1: a dad I know, who shall remain nameless, is not

487
00:24:39,725 --> 00:24:48,165
Speaker 1: great at matching the kid's clothes to the Weatherly.

488
00:24:45,765 --> 00:24:49,605
Speaker 3: A hypothetical is that dad good at matching his own

489
00:24:49,645 --> 00:24:51,165
Speaker 3: clothes to the weather, because I know a lot of

490
00:24:51,245 --> 00:24:53,925
Speaker 3: men who are not. For example, my own father would

491
00:24:53,925 --> 00:24:54,565
Speaker 3: be in short.

492
00:24:54,405 --> 00:24:57,685
Speaker 1: Great point, it's a really great point. And the question

493
00:24:57,845 --> 00:25:01,365
Speaker 1: becomes do I let them? Meaning do I let the

494
00:25:01,445 --> 00:25:06,605
Speaker 1: children go out without jumpers on and let this hypothetical

495
00:25:06,685 --> 00:25:10,804
Speaker 1: father allow that to happen, or do I interv and

496
00:25:10,925 --> 00:25:14,525
Speaker 1: say this is going to lead to misery and can

497
00:25:14,565 --> 00:25:16,605
Speaker 1: we not just put the jumper on before we leave

498
00:25:16,645 --> 00:25:18,764
Speaker 1: the house. And that can set the heart of a

499
00:25:18,765 --> 00:25:21,524
Speaker 1: lot of these questions, because it's like, do I just

500
00:25:21,645 --> 00:25:23,165
Speaker 1: let them? Do I just let them go?

501
00:25:23,245 --> 00:25:26,125
Speaker 3: I'm cold, I'm team let them, because you know what'll happen.

502
00:25:26,205 --> 00:25:28,484
Speaker 3: They'll get to the park, or they'll get outside and

503
00:25:28,525 --> 00:25:31,564
Speaker 3: they'll start change and they'll say I'm very cold, and

504
00:25:31,605 --> 00:25:35,645
Speaker 3: then probably you'll get a call saying yes, can you please.

505
00:25:37,685 --> 00:25:39,605
Speaker 2: But you know what the other thing is too, which

506
00:25:39,645 --> 00:25:42,484
Speaker 2: is really annoying. Sometimes it works out for them, and

507
00:25:42,525 --> 00:25:45,925
Speaker 2: that's even more irritating because you'll fret about something like that,

508
00:25:46,005 --> 00:25:48,205
Speaker 2: about your child going out without their jumper, and then

509
00:25:48,245 --> 00:25:51,564
Speaker 2: they'll come back incident free, nothing's been said. And so

510
00:25:51,685 --> 00:25:54,765
Speaker 2: really the dads are just working smarter, not harder, and

511
00:25:55,005 --> 00:25:57,604
Speaker 2: worrying less about those things and getting away with it.

512
00:25:57,645 --> 00:25:59,285
Speaker 2: So maybe we need to take a leaf out of

513
00:25:59,325 --> 00:25:59,725
Speaker 2: their ball.

514
00:26:00,885 --> 00:26:04,725
Speaker 3: Good Night to the bedtime story. Lauren Ironmonger wrote for

515
00:26:04,765 --> 00:26:07,085
Speaker 3: The Sydney Morning Herald last weekend that the number of

516
00:26:07,205 --> 00:26:09,845
Speaker 3: parents reading aloud to their children is at an all

517
00:26:09,965 --> 00:26:14,445
Speaker 3: time low. This research comes from HarperCollins UK, which found

518
00:26:14,445 --> 00:26:17,885
Speaker 3: that less than half of parents of kids under thirteen

519
00:26:18,525 --> 00:26:22,484
Speaker 3: said reading aloud to children was fun for me. And

520
00:26:22,525 --> 00:26:24,845
Speaker 3: can I just say on this, I think it's a

521
00:26:24,965 --> 00:26:27,205
Speaker 3: very different question saying do you read to your kids?

522
00:26:27,245 --> 00:26:28,244
Speaker 3: Do you think it's fun for me?

523
00:26:28,765 --> 00:26:30,045
Speaker 2: Those two things are not the same.

524
00:26:30,645 --> 00:26:34,244
Speaker 3: I think reading the very hungry cadopillar for the fifteenth time.

525
00:26:34,285 --> 00:26:36,685
Speaker 3: I wouldn't describe it as fun. I'd describe it as something,

526
00:26:37,085 --> 00:26:40,524
Speaker 3: but fun would not be in Australian data found that

527
00:26:40,565 --> 00:26:43,484
Speaker 3: many parents can't fit in daily reading with their kids,

528
00:26:43,845 --> 00:26:47,445
Speaker 3: and just quickly this article goes into why it's even important. First,

529
00:26:47,525 --> 00:26:50,685
Speaker 3: it's massive for literacy skills, but it also strengthens the

530
00:26:50,725 --> 00:26:53,165
Speaker 3: parent child bond. It sends a message to your child

531
00:26:53,165 --> 00:26:54,725
Speaker 3: that at the end of the day, they are the

532
00:26:54,765 --> 00:26:59,165
Speaker 3: most important thing. Amelia. Do you think culturally we've started

533
00:26:59,205 --> 00:27:03,805
Speaker 3: to see reading as something that a child does at

534
00:27:04,045 --> 00:27:08,725
Speaker 3: preschool or school, and therefore it doesn't have to be

535
00:27:08,765 --> 00:27:10,405
Speaker 3: done at home. We've outsourced it a.

536
00:27:10,845 --> 00:27:13,605
Speaker 1: I think that's such a good question, and I think,

537
00:27:14,525 --> 00:27:18,524
Speaker 1: very sadly, the answer is pretty clearly yes. And it

538
00:27:18,645 --> 00:27:21,285
Speaker 1: dawned on me recently that I am very much part

539
00:27:21,285 --> 00:27:23,765
Speaker 1: of the problem here. I take my kids to swimming

540
00:27:23,805 --> 00:27:27,165
Speaker 1: practice on a Sunday and I sit there and I

541
00:27:27,205 --> 00:27:30,405
Speaker 1: doom scroll on my phone and feel my anxiety spiral

542
00:27:31,405 --> 00:27:34,845
Speaker 1: and instead I should be reading a book. So last

543
00:27:34,885 --> 00:27:37,804
Speaker 1: week I took along Stephen King's Misery, which I've never read.

544
00:27:38,405 --> 00:27:41,365
Speaker 1: I was like this, Stephen King it's good author.

545
00:27:41,205 --> 00:27:44,205
Speaker 3: He's actually writing.

546
00:27:44,765 --> 00:27:48,085
Speaker 1: And then I realized I was role modeling for my children,

547
00:27:48,165 --> 00:27:50,645
Speaker 1: who I'm always sort of flinging books at and telling

548
00:27:50,685 --> 00:27:53,045
Speaker 1: them to read. That reading can be fun.

549
00:27:53,805 --> 00:27:56,525
Speaker 3: That's so true. And did you was it a paper copy,

550
00:27:56,605 --> 00:27:58,765
Speaker 3: like a yeah, paperback with.

551
00:27:58,725 --> 00:28:01,365
Speaker 1: A really like spooky looking cover that my kids were

552
00:28:01,405 --> 00:28:04,005
Speaker 1: obsessed with, because, by the way, physical books are kind

553
00:28:04,005 --> 00:28:06,645
Speaker 1: of intriguing. You remember that idea, like, yeah, a cover

554
00:28:06,685 --> 00:28:08,725
Speaker 1: of a book is meant to entice you into it.

555
00:28:09,045 --> 00:28:11,765
Speaker 1: And so when I was reading this book, they're like, misery,

556
00:28:11,805 --> 00:28:14,244
Speaker 1: what's that book about? And it was just an occasioned

557
00:28:14,245 --> 00:28:18,285
Speaker 1: a great conversation that said, this is a work in progress.

558
00:28:18,285 --> 00:28:20,605
Speaker 1: For me too, I am exhausted at the end of

559
00:28:20,645 --> 00:28:23,685
Speaker 1: the day, and sometimes it is easier for me to

560
00:28:23,805 --> 00:28:26,764
Speaker 1: throw on an audiobook on the Bluetooth speaker and then

561
00:28:26,805 --> 00:28:29,925
Speaker 1: I can go and stack the dishwasher while they're falling asleep.

562
00:28:30,405 --> 00:28:33,445
Speaker 1: And I haven't felt too guilty about that, because literacy

563
00:28:33,484 --> 00:28:36,405
Speaker 1: experts do say that listening to an audiobook can build

564
00:28:36,445 --> 00:28:39,565
Speaker 1: all sorts of really important literacy skills, such as comprehension

565
00:28:39,565 --> 00:28:43,645
Speaker 1: and vocabulary, and they're often read by fantastic actors, and

566
00:28:43,685 --> 00:28:47,125
Speaker 1: so they're getting this really entertaining story read to them,

567
00:28:47,165 --> 00:28:50,125
Speaker 1: probably better. It's better read by Emma Thompson than it

568
00:28:50,165 --> 00:28:52,685
Speaker 1: is by me, for instance, because we were reading Matilda

569
00:28:52,845 --> 00:28:55,685
Speaker 1: on audiobook. So yeah, I haven't felt too guilty about that,

570
00:28:55,805 --> 00:28:58,365
Speaker 1: but that was until I read this article and it

571
00:28:58,485 --> 00:29:02,405
Speaker 1: made that really important point that you reference Jesse, that

572
00:29:02,565 --> 00:29:05,165
Speaker 1: you're not just reading to them to teach them how

573
00:29:05,165 --> 00:29:08,845
Speaker 1: to read. You're reading to them to show them that

574
00:29:09,205 --> 00:29:12,365
Speaker 1: actually the dishwasher is less important than us spending some

575
00:29:12,445 --> 00:29:15,765
Speaker 1: time together. And you know, okay, I'm just adding that

576
00:29:15,805 --> 00:29:16,925
Speaker 1: to another list of things I'm doing.

577
00:29:17,965 --> 00:29:20,445
Speaker 2: But that's the thing as well, is that usually now

578
00:29:20,525 --> 00:29:23,285
Speaker 2: there's in a lot of households, it's two working parents.

579
00:29:23,525 --> 00:29:25,805
Speaker 2: You're getting home later sometimes, I mean I get home

580
00:29:25,805 --> 00:29:29,245
Speaker 2: at six thirty seven o'clock from work to then try

581
00:29:29,245 --> 00:29:32,085
Speaker 2: an organize dinner, eat together, which we're also doing wrong

582
00:29:32,165 --> 00:29:34,845
Speaker 2: that we're never eating together now, and get your kids

583
00:29:34,845 --> 00:29:37,085
Speaker 2: to sleep. Something has to give, and so I think

584
00:29:37,125 --> 00:29:40,245
Speaker 2: we are probably guilty of just replacing that, as you say,

585
00:29:40,245 --> 00:29:43,085
Speaker 2: with I always use sleep stories. Audiobooks. We've got like

586
00:29:43,125 --> 00:29:45,325
Speaker 2: the Yoto player with the little cards that my daughter

587
00:29:45,365 --> 00:29:48,005
Speaker 2: can listen to and so yeah, we're just kind of

588
00:29:48,045 --> 00:29:50,885
Speaker 2: unwittingly putting our kids at a disadvantage by not sitting

589
00:29:50,925 --> 00:29:52,885
Speaker 2: down and doing reading with them in the interest of

590
00:29:52,965 --> 00:29:53,925
Speaker 2: cutting a bit of time.

591
00:29:54,285 --> 00:29:58,205
Speaker 3: I wonder if the story here is more about adults

592
00:29:58,205 --> 00:30:02,165
Speaker 3: aren't reading, because this research came out as well that

593
00:30:02,325 --> 00:30:07,005
Speaker 3: the book industry broadly adults aren't going and buying books.

594
00:30:07,045 --> 00:30:12,325
Speaker 3: That's absolutely tanked. And as you say, Amelia, if we're

595
00:30:12,445 --> 00:30:16,605
Speaker 3: not modeling it, and therefore it does seem like a

596
00:30:16,605 --> 00:30:20,165
Speaker 3: biggest step. I always find this with reading, that there's

597
00:30:20,205 --> 00:30:21,805
Speaker 3: a big block if you haven't done it for a while,

598
00:30:22,485 --> 00:30:25,205
Speaker 3: and you can feel like it's harder, and then it's

599
00:30:25,205 --> 00:30:28,405
Speaker 3: a muscle, like reading is genuinely a muscle that gets weak.

600
00:30:29,245 --> 00:30:32,645
Speaker 3: And so I was reading about this because it's something

601
00:30:32,685 --> 00:30:34,645
Speaker 3: I really really worry about. Us during this event with

602
00:30:34,685 --> 00:30:37,245
Speaker 3: this academic whose name is Sophie g and she was

603
00:30:37,245 --> 00:30:40,885
Speaker 3: saying that not reading is worse for you than vaping.

604
00:30:41,885 --> 00:30:44,965
Speaker 3: That for the brain, like it is so important for

605
00:30:45,045 --> 00:30:50,605
Speaker 3: everything from memory to empathy to just all these cognitive

606
00:30:50,605 --> 00:30:54,365
Speaker 3: skills and the ability especially to read deeply. That's not

607
00:30:55,365 --> 00:30:58,405
Speaker 3: innate and we have not evolved to read every single

608
00:30:58,485 --> 00:31:01,645
Speaker 3: generation has to learn how to read, and in order

609
00:31:01,645 --> 00:31:04,485
Speaker 3: to learn how to read, it takes like years of

610
00:31:04,525 --> 00:31:07,765
Speaker 3: deep focus. Reading is one of you cannot do it

611
00:31:07,765 --> 00:31:08,805
Speaker 3: while you're doing anything else.

612
00:31:08,885 --> 00:31:11,645
Speaker 1: No, and some people never forget that. Travis Kelsey recently

613
00:31:11,645 --> 00:31:13,445
Speaker 1: came out and you can't really read.

614
00:31:13,805 --> 00:31:16,365
Speaker 3: So that's what I was reading about. Even the Naplan

615
00:31:16,605 --> 00:31:19,565
Speaker 3: results came out recently and they said that Ozzie kids

616
00:31:19,565 --> 00:31:21,805
Speaker 3: have sunk to an all time low in terms of

617
00:31:21,965 --> 00:31:26,405
Speaker 3: reading and writing skills, and low literacy is an issue

618
00:31:26,405 --> 00:31:29,805
Speaker 3: among a lot of adults. And low literacy I found

619
00:31:29,845 --> 00:31:32,165
Speaker 3: this interesting. It was saying that actually being able to go,

620
00:31:32,205 --> 00:31:33,645
Speaker 3: I know what the words on the page mean is

621
00:31:34,005 --> 00:31:36,645
Speaker 3: one thing, but the step that seems to be missing

622
00:31:36,725 --> 00:31:39,325
Speaker 3: is then understanding what those words mean, and also the

623
00:31:39,365 --> 00:31:41,965
Speaker 3: ability do you see the article in the Atlantic recently

624
00:31:42,005 --> 00:31:44,685
Speaker 3: about college students who had never read a book was

625
00:31:44,725 --> 00:31:47,765
Speaker 3: so satip The ability to sit down and read a

626
00:31:47,765 --> 00:31:50,685
Speaker 3: book beginning to end is also a skill that you

627
00:31:50,725 --> 00:31:53,245
Speaker 3: can lose, and so deep reading is being able to

628
00:31:53,245 --> 00:31:55,765
Speaker 3: sit with something for a long time, follow it, like

629
00:31:56,525 --> 00:31:58,365
Speaker 3: go to work the next day, kind of remember where

630
00:31:58,365 --> 00:32:01,165
Speaker 3: you were, and even though it feels so hard, it's like,

631
00:32:01,525 --> 00:32:04,245
Speaker 3: you know, we've spoken about pickietas and stuff on this show,

632
00:32:04,245 --> 00:32:06,565
Speaker 3: and you know how they always say, like on the plate,

633
00:32:07,045 --> 00:32:08,445
Speaker 3: they're not going to eat the broccoli, but you've got

634
00:32:08,525 --> 00:32:09,485
Speaker 3: to have broccoli on the plate.

635
00:32:09,685 --> 00:32:10,045
Speaker 1: Yeah.

636
00:32:10,125 --> 00:32:11,765
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's got to be an option. It's going to

637
00:32:11,805 --> 00:32:14,084
Speaker 3: be an option. It's like having the books in the house.

638
00:32:14,325 --> 00:32:17,845
Speaker 3: See before I speak about Kindle, right, because I've gone

639
00:32:17,845 --> 00:32:20,205
Speaker 3: to that because I'm trying to at night not have

640
00:32:20,285 --> 00:32:23,365
Speaker 3: a lamp or anything on. But now I think you should.

641
00:32:23,085 --> 00:32:24,725
Speaker 1: Get a sleep divorce. Then you don't have to worry

642
00:32:24,765 --> 00:32:27,285
Speaker 1: about because lights on everywhere.

643
00:32:28,205 --> 00:32:30,125
Speaker 3: To the age where Luna might be coloring in or something.

644
00:32:30,165 --> 00:32:32,925
Speaker 3: And I don't want her to see me constantly on

645
00:32:32,965 --> 00:32:34,765
Speaker 3: my phone, so I'll go and read. But it looks

646
00:32:34,765 --> 00:32:37,245
Speaker 3: like I'm on an iPad or a screen or a device,

647
00:32:37,405 --> 00:32:39,645
Speaker 3: and I think it's more important she sees me term page, and.

648
00:32:39,565 --> 00:32:42,685
Speaker 1: It's also less interesting for her. She doesn't understand why

649
00:32:42,685 --> 00:32:46,445
Speaker 1: you're engaged with this kindle as opposed to Stephen King's misery.

650
00:32:46,605 --> 00:32:46,805
Speaker 4: Yeah.

651
00:32:46,845 --> 00:32:48,725
Speaker 3: She even goes into my room sometimes and when I've

652
00:32:48,725 --> 00:32:50,605
Speaker 3: got books next to my bed, like she loves to

653
00:32:50,645 --> 00:32:53,045
Speaker 3: flick through them and like look at the pages.

654
00:32:53,205 --> 00:32:56,205
Speaker 2: Yeah, my daughter often now pretend she's the librarian now

655
00:32:56,205 --> 00:32:58,805
Speaker 2: that they're doing that in school, and then I have

656
00:32:58,885 --> 00:33:01,125
Speaker 2: to go and borrow books from her. And it is

657
00:33:01,205 --> 00:33:03,245
Speaker 2: just such a yeah, like it's a tangible thing. It's

658
00:33:03,245 --> 00:33:05,045
Speaker 2: not the same as having it on a device.

659
00:33:05,285 --> 00:33:07,925
Speaker 3: This is it. This is a humble brag. But Luna

660
00:33:07,965 --> 00:33:12,245
Speaker 3: was going through our bookcase in our study recently and

661
00:33:12,565 --> 00:33:14,365
Speaker 3: got a book down and it was one of my books,

662
00:33:14,405 --> 00:33:15,965
Speaker 3: and she went to the back another picture of me,

663
00:33:16,045 --> 00:33:22,845
Speaker 3: and she went, Mummy had to explain that is and

664
00:33:22,885 --> 00:33:25,485
Speaker 3: I mum's an English teacher, so like this is a

665
00:33:25,485 --> 00:33:28,165
Speaker 3: special interest area. But like I grew up and there

666
00:33:28,205 --> 00:33:30,685
Speaker 3: was always a book in the and the way that

667
00:33:30,725 --> 00:33:32,525
Speaker 3: you would just go on and.

668
00:33:32,445 --> 00:33:34,445
Speaker 1: They're so intriguing when you're a kid.

669
00:33:34,285 --> 00:33:37,045
Speaker 3: As well, you'd always find a naughty one and you'd go,

670
00:33:37,125 --> 00:33:40,445
Speaker 3: I will be reading that privately. Great, absolutely great, you're

671
00:33:40,445 --> 00:33:44,125
Speaker 3: putting words together. That's wonderful, or like names that I

672
00:33:44,125 --> 00:33:45,565
Speaker 3: would see your covers.

673
00:33:45,685 --> 00:33:48,685
Speaker 1: I still remember when my parents love books and reading

674
00:33:48,725 --> 00:33:51,445
Speaker 1: and they have bookshelves all around the house and there

675
00:33:51,485 --> 00:33:53,925
Speaker 1: was a Joan Diddian book called The White Album. I

676
00:33:54,045 --> 00:33:57,245
Speaker 1: just had a completely white cover, and this blew my mind.

677
00:33:57,805 --> 00:34:01,565
Speaker 1: How can you have a cover that has nothing on it?

678
00:34:01,565 --> 00:34:04,445
Speaker 3: It's so true the physicality of books. And apparently as well,

679
00:34:04,445 --> 00:34:06,805
Speaker 3: they're finding that the print book is a totally different

680
00:34:06,805 --> 00:34:07,765
Speaker 3: experience to read it.

681
00:34:07,765 --> 00:34:10,084
Speaker 1: It's just the object of the print book is so

682
00:34:11,364 --> 00:34:14,245
Speaker 1: and in a world where we have so few objects

683
00:34:14,245 --> 00:34:16,805
Speaker 1: that are special, because even our photos are on our

684
00:34:16,844 --> 00:34:21,725
Speaker 1: phone and we don't have DVDs anymore videos, I think

685
00:34:22,444 --> 00:34:25,884
Speaker 1: that's a portal into reading, yes, is to give kids

686
00:34:25,924 --> 00:34:28,805
Speaker 1: the opportunity to be mystified by a book with a

687
00:34:28,805 --> 00:34:30,325
Speaker 1: white cover and the smell.

688
00:34:30,725 --> 00:34:33,004
Speaker 3: The smell of a book, Yeah, I love the smells.

689
00:34:33,285 --> 00:34:35,805
Speaker 3: Producer Ruth was telling us that the reason we love

690
00:34:35,844 --> 00:34:38,204
Speaker 3: the smell of old books so much is because they

691
00:34:38,325 --> 00:34:40,724
Speaker 3: smell as the ink and the paper and everything break down,

692
00:34:41,084 --> 00:34:44,604
Speaker 3: it smells like vanilla, which is such a homely warm

693
00:34:45,004 --> 00:34:47,444
Speaker 3: Like I'm thinking, there are a few things to me

694
00:34:47,524 --> 00:34:50,044
Speaker 3: more comforting than that smell. And you can get like

695
00:34:50,044 --> 00:34:52,444
Speaker 3: fragrances or candles or whatever in your house to make

696
00:34:52,484 --> 00:34:54,524
Speaker 3: it smell like that, which I'm like, I just want

697
00:34:54,524 --> 00:34:56,644
Speaker 3: to fill my whole house that smell of like an old,

698
00:34:56,645 --> 00:34:57,165
Speaker 3: old book.

699
00:34:57,205 --> 00:34:59,124
Speaker 1: And I also want to know that producer Ruth is

700
00:34:59,165 --> 00:35:00,805
Speaker 1: the best smelling person at Muma.

701
00:35:00,604 --> 00:35:03,725
Speaker 2: Man, which is talking about I wonder if it's also

702
00:35:03,765 --> 00:35:06,525
Speaker 2: that we're a bit more sensitive about what we're reading

703
00:35:06,844 --> 00:35:09,604
Speaker 2: now and what we're reading to our children now. The

704
00:35:09,645 --> 00:35:12,205
Speaker 2: other week, my my daughter brings home a library book

705
00:35:12,325 --> 00:35:14,604
Speaker 2: every week from pre K and she loves it. It's

706
00:35:14,645 --> 00:35:16,364
Speaker 2: like a big event to bring it home in the bag,

707
00:35:16,404 --> 00:35:18,685
Speaker 2: which is great. But this week she brought home The

708
00:35:18,765 --> 00:35:22,005
Speaker 2: Ugly Duckling, and I found myself as I was reading

709
00:35:22,004 --> 00:35:25,965
Speaker 2: it to her, feeling weird about even using the word ugly.

710
00:35:26,364 --> 00:35:28,164
Speaker 2: And I think that's something that's coming up a lot

711
00:35:28,205 --> 00:35:30,484
Speaker 2: now with books like even Roll Dahl's books a couple

712
00:35:30,524 --> 00:35:33,445
Speaker 2: of years ago were rewritten to remove the words ugly

713
00:35:33,564 --> 00:35:36,285
Speaker 2: and fat. And so I think maybe we're not reading

714
00:35:36,285 --> 00:35:38,364
Speaker 2: as many of the stories that we loved as kids,

715
00:35:38,404 --> 00:35:41,204
Speaker 2: worried that they'll be inappropriate, and so we're not enjoying it.

716
00:35:41,325 --> 00:35:42,884
Speaker 2: Therefore we're doing It's true.

717
00:35:42,964 --> 00:35:45,924
Speaker 1: I have two examples of that from recently. We have

718
00:35:46,004 --> 00:35:49,844
Speaker 1: a copy of Role Dal's Revolting Rhymes, which I remember loving.

719
00:35:49,924 --> 00:35:53,684
Speaker 1: It's actually my copy, and I was reading it one

720
00:35:53,725 --> 00:35:56,685
Speaker 1: day to the kids and I just suddenly my eyes

721
00:35:56,725 --> 00:35:59,565
Speaker 1: lit upon the next word, and the next word was slut.

722
00:36:00,245 --> 00:36:04,725
Speaker 1: Oh that's a really hard word to explain meaning to kids,

723
00:36:05,084 --> 00:36:08,684
Speaker 1: I find. And then the second example was had a

724
00:36:08,725 --> 00:36:11,205
Speaker 1: really nice time reading the line the Witch and the

725
00:36:11,245 --> 00:36:14,164
Speaker 1: Wardrobe was one of my kids. But gosh, that's a

726
00:36:14,165 --> 00:36:17,485
Speaker 1: weird book, is it. There's a lot going on in there.

727
00:36:17,645 --> 00:36:21,764
Speaker 1: It's essentially a Christian allegory, which is fine. I don't

728
00:36:21,805 --> 00:36:25,564
Speaker 1: mean to say that's weird, but it does raise a

729
00:36:25,564 --> 00:36:29,285
Speaker 1: lot of questions about what the book is actually trying

730
00:36:29,325 --> 00:36:33,164
Speaker 1: to say and what the wardrobe is a metaphor for.

731
00:36:33,245 --> 00:36:36,444
Speaker 1: And you just find yourself going down some garden paths

732
00:36:36,484 --> 00:36:39,124
Speaker 1: that maybe you didn't expect that you'd be going down

733
00:36:39,285 --> 00:36:39,884
Speaker 1: at bedtime.

734
00:36:40,125 --> 00:36:42,564
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are some. My mum brings a lot of

735
00:36:42,564 --> 00:36:45,564
Speaker 3: classics over that. Did you ever read There's a Hippopotamus

736
00:36:45,564 --> 00:36:46,004
Speaker 3: on my roofed?

737
00:36:46,084 --> 00:36:46,404
Speaker 1: And cake?

738
00:36:46,725 --> 00:36:51,364
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, so we're big. We read that fifty Well,

739
00:36:51,404 --> 00:36:53,884
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, but that there's one that's like Mummy's on

740
00:36:53,924 --> 00:36:56,844
Speaker 3: a diet. She has salad, cheese and I read that

741
00:36:56,884 --> 00:36:59,004
Speaker 3: every day and I'm like this, this is a bit

742
00:36:59,044 --> 00:37:04,285
Speaker 3: weird a diet. But those ones, right are brilliant, they're nonsensical,

743
00:37:04,364 --> 00:37:06,964
Speaker 3: they're wonderful. I watch Luna just look at the roof,

744
00:37:06,964 --> 00:37:08,404
Speaker 3: and I'm like, just think that the hippotamus in there,

745
00:37:08,444 --> 00:37:11,004
Speaker 3: and I don't made it, but always says that a

746
00:37:11,004 --> 00:37:14,884
Speaker 3: lot of the newer ones are quite sanitized, and they're

747
00:37:14,884 --> 00:37:16,605
Speaker 3: trying there, trying to hit you over.

748
00:37:16,444 --> 00:37:19,524
Speaker 1: The head girls doing stem Yes.

749
00:37:19,404 --> 00:37:22,484
Speaker 3: Exactly right. And it's like school has done this a

750
00:37:22,484 --> 00:37:27,484
Speaker 3: little bit too. They made reading into hard work in

751
00:37:27,604 --> 00:37:35,204
Speaker 3: terms of reading for knowledge or like reading for moral

752
00:37:35,285 --> 00:37:38,684
Speaker 3: like lesson instead of just reading for pleasure. And like,

753
00:37:38,725 --> 00:37:41,325
Speaker 3: I see the pleasure that Luna gets from hippopotamus, and

754
00:37:41,364 --> 00:37:44,644
Speaker 3: I'm like, let's just let's learn our colors later, and

755
00:37:44,725 --> 00:37:47,324
Speaker 3: let's just go to hippopotamus eating. Okay, on the ugly

756
00:37:47,364 --> 00:37:49,644
Speaker 3: darkling thing, when I was a kid, I asked my

757
00:37:49,725 --> 00:37:51,364
Speaker 3: nan if I was pretty. She lived with us and

758
00:37:51,364 --> 00:37:52,684
Speaker 3: I was like five or six, and I said, nan,

759
00:37:52,765 --> 00:37:56,364
Speaker 3: am I pretty? And she said, you're an ugly darkling? Oh.

760
00:37:56,404 --> 00:37:59,364
Speaker 3: She died before I grew up, and so I still wonder.

761
00:37:59,404 --> 00:38:01,604
Speaker 3: I'm like, did I ever turn into this one? Nan?

762
00:38:01,844 --> 00:38:04,004
Speaker 1: You're one.

763
00:38:05,805 --> 00:38:08,564
Speaker 2: It's time for our recommendations of the week. So Jesse

764
00:38:08,685 --> 00:38:09,445
Speaker 2: do you want to go first?

765
00:38:09,765 --> 00:38:13,644
Speaker 3: Sure, on the topic of books, I remembered, don't you

766
00:38:13,685 --> 00:38:16,124
Speaker 3: find that it's really hard to buy gifts for like grandparents?

767
00:38:16,165 --> 00:38:19,364
Speaker 3: And like day comes around and you're like, oh, it's

768
00:38:19,404 --> 00:38:23,205
Speaker 3: my mom and speaking of hopeless dads, it's their mum. Whatever.

769
00:38:23,245 --> 00:38:25,044
Speaker 1: Don't give me a hand cream, can you?

770
00:38:25,044 --> 00:38:26,805
Speaker 3: You can't know? And what am I like? I'm not

771
00:38:26,844 --> 00:38:29,805
Speaker 3: going to get her like a nice blouse. She's going

772
00:38:29,844 --> 00:38:30,884
Speaker 3: to be like, this is disgusting.

773
00:38:30,964 --> 00:38:33,924
Speaker 1: I always used to get my nana every Christmas a

774
00:38:34,044 --> 00:38:38,605
Speaker 1: jar of oil of olay, and that smell still takes

775
00:38:38,604 --> 00:38:41,444
Speaker 1: me back, talking of nostalging. I won't want that.

776
00:38:41,685 --> 00:38:44,004
Speaker 3: She won't want that. So what I got was I

777
00:38:44,004 --> 00:38:47,124
Speaker 3: went on Etsy and there are heaps of examples of this,

778
00:38:47,205 --> 00:38:51,325
Speaker 3: but I went on Etsy and found this company that

779
00:38:51,604 --> 00:38:55,884
Speaker 3: makes personalized children's books. So this one is about going

780
00:38:55,924 --> 00:38:58,524
Speaker 3: to nana's house and you can say, like, when I

781
00:38:58,564 --> 00:39:00,964
Speaker 3: go to Nana's house, there's a blah and like you

782
00:39:00,964 --> 00:39:04,084
Speaker 3: can put in all the little details and they've even

783
00:39:04,125 --> 00:39:06,484
Speaker 3: got like put in three words to describe your nana.

784
00:39:06,564 --> 00:39:09,205
Speaker 3: And I'm like, crazy, weird, annoying.

785
00:39:10,564 --> 00:39:11,164
Speaker 1: To troll Maya.

786
00:39:11,564 --> 00:39:13,924
Speaker 3: But it's all about a day at Nana's house. So

787
00:39:13,964 --> 00:39:17,004
Speaker 3: it's and I made one for MEA and I made

788
00:39:17,044 --> 00:39:20,805
Speaker 3: one for my mum. And they're just the cutest, most personalized.

789
00:39:20,884 --> 00:39:23,484
Speaker 3: It has their names, it has whatever they call their

790
00:39:23,484 --> 00:39:27,325
Speaker 3: grandmother on the front, and they're just so so sweet.

791
00:39:27,325 --> 00:39:29,285
Speaker 3: So this was on Etsy from Lucy and Co. We

792
00:39:29,325 --> 00:39:30,805
Speaker 3: have a link in our show notes, but there are

793
00:39:30,844 --> 00:39:33,485
Speaker 3: heaps and heaps online and they are just a lovely,

794
00:39:33,844 --> 00:39:34,964
Speaker 3: thoughtful little gift.

795
00:39:35,245 --> 00:39:37,924
Speaker 1: My recommendation is something that I have not used in

796
00:39:38,125 --> 00:39:40,404
Speaker 1: quite a few years, but which I still like to

797
00:39:40,524 --> 00:39:44,605
Speaker 1: gift to new parents. And it is a fabulous product

798
00:39:44,805 --> 00:39:47,124
Speaker 1: that there's a little bit of a story behind. So

799
00:39:47,364 --> 00:39:49,564
Speaker 1: I used to do a show on Mom and Mia

800
00:39:49,725 --> 00:39:52,524
Speaker 1: many years ago with Maya called tell Me It's going

801
00:39:52,604 --> 00:39:56,364
Speaker 1: to Be Okay. It was a show which we conceived

802
00:39:56,765 --> 00:40:00,924
Speaker 1: of and started doing after Donald Trump was elected, and

803
00:40:01,044 --> 00:40:03,204
Speaker 1: I think the title kind of summarizes where I had

804
00:40:03,245 --> 00:40:08,205
Speaker 1: spaces that it literally came to a screeching halt about

805
00:40:08,245 --> 00:40:11,364
Speaker 1: two years in when we really that we could no

806
00:40:11,404 --> 00:40:13,364
Speaker 1: longer tell each other it was going to be okay.

807
00:40:13,685 --> 00:40:17,324
Speaker 1: So and it's never come back hasn't never come back.

808
00:40:18,364 --> 00:40:21,884
Speaker 1: But it was a fun experience and we had a

809
00:40:22,125 --> 00:40:26,165
Speaker 1: small but devoted cadre of listeners, and one of them

810
00:40:26,964 --> 00:40:31,004
Speaker 1: was a lovely lady who lived in Neutral Bay in Sydney,

811
00:40:31,404 --> 00:40:35,164
Speaker 1: and she sent me an invention of hers called the

812
00:40:35,404 --> 00:40:40,884
Speaker 1: baby Oragami Rap. Now this saved my life when I

813
00:40:40,884 --> 00:40:44,084
Speaker 1: had my first baby, because you know how the world

814
00:40:44,125 --> 00:40:46,524
Speaker 1: is divided into people who are good at oragami and

815
00:40:46,564 --> 00:40:49,725
Speaker 1: people who aren't. Yeah, I'm one of the people who's

816
00:40:49,765 --> 00:40:51,484
Speaker 1: not me or anything.

817
00:40:51,524 --> 00:40:54,884
Speaker 3: I think it takes like patience and grace, think.

818
00:40:55,125 --> 00:40:57,805
Speaker 1: Neither of those things exactly. So this is called the

819
00:40:57,805 --> 00:41:01,524
Speaker 1: baby Oragami Rap because if you've never mastered swaddling, it

820
00:41:01,645 --> 00:41:07,084
Speaker 1: makes it literally impossible not to correctly swaddle the babies.

821
00:41:07,125 --> 00:41:09,725
Speaker 1: So I think Nick Cannon could do with one of these,

822
00:41:10,645 --> 00:41:14,444
Speaker 1: and I think that Nelly could do with yown. And

823
00:41:14,725 --> 00:41:17,085
Speaker 1: I really got a lot of use out of it. Basically,

824
00:41:17,165 --> 00:41:20,005
Speaker 1: it's numbered. It's a sort of a step by step

825
00:41:20,125 --> 00:41:22,165
Speaker 1: numbered way to swaddle your baby.

826
00:41:22,285 --> 00:41:24,404
Speaker 3: And it's super tight, like it does everything you're.

827
00:41:24,364 --> 00:41:27,325
Speaker 1: Tight, and it's made a beautiful one hundred percent cotton.

828
00:41:27,884 --> 00:41:30,725
Speaker 1: It's really easy to wash, and I just love gifting

829
00:41:30,765 --> 00:41:33,964
Speaker 1: them to people because swaddling is just so hard it's

830
00:41:34,004 --> 00:41:37,044
Speaker 1: so hard. I just never got it. I never got it.

831
00:41:37,444 --> 00:41:40,604
Speaker 1: So it's called the baby o Agami Rap and it

832
00:41:40,725 --> 00:41:45,605
Speaker 1: is from an Australian company and a friend of the pod.

833
00:41:45,924 --> 00:41:47,844
Speaker 1: So thanks for saving my life.

834
00:41:47,924 --> 00:41:49,884
Speaker 3: How about you, Stacy, what's your reco Okay?

835
00:41:49,964 --> 00:41:53,644
Speaker 2: So I am rubbish at imaginative play. I'm I'm just

836
00:41:53,685 --> 00:41:56,364
Speaker 2: not good. But the one toy I bought for my daughter,

837
00:41:56,484 --> 00:41:58,285
Speaker 2: I bought it nearly three years ago now and we

838
00:41:58,805 --> 00:42:01,884
Speaker 2: still play with these every single week, usually multiple times

839
00:42:01,884 --> 00:42:05,684
Speaker 2: a week. And they're those colored magnetic tiles. So I

840
00:42:05,685 --> 00:42:08,564
Speaker 2: haven't seen these, okay. So they're just different colors. You

841
00:42:08,564 --> 00:42:11,764
Speaker 2: can get like esthetically please pastel ones. You can get

842
00:42:11,765 --> 00:42:14,044
Speaker 2: the bright primary colors, whatever you want. They come in

843
00:42:14,044 --> 00:42:16,084
Speaker 2: different packs. You might get like eighty pieces or one

844
00:42:16,125 --> 00:42:19,644
Speaker 2: hundred pieces, and they're just magnetic squares and triangles and

845
00:42:19,685 --> 00:42:22,165
Speaker 2: they all kind of you'll get a guide of different things.

846
00:42:22,165 --> 00:42:24,524
Speaker 2: You can build with them, or your kid can just

847
00:42:24,685 --> 00:42:26,444
Speaker 2: stack them up in a row like whatever.

848
00:42:26,564 --> 00:42:26,924
Speaker 1: Stage.

849
00:42:27,205 --> 00:42:30,125
Speaker 3: It's like Lego, but it doesn't exactly.

850
00:42:30,404 --> 00:42:34,485
Speaker 1: They are flat easy to clean up because unlike Lego,

851
00:42:34,524 --> 00:42:34,884
Speaker 1: they're not.

852
00:42:34,924 --> 00:42:38,164
Speaker 2: Like little bits, so it all sticks together. So they're

853
00:42:38,245 --> 00:42:40,325
Speaker 2: very handy. We take them a lot to cafes or

854
00:42:40,364 --> 00:42:42,725
Speaker 2: pubs or anything because there's no mess, like if you

855
00:42:42,964 --> 00:42:45,245
Speaker 2: worried about them drawing on a table at a cafe,

856
00:42:45,444 --> 00:42:46,325
Speaker 2: even when you don't.

857
00:42:46,165 --> 00:42:47,044
Speaker 1: Take your kids to the pot.

858
00:42:47,084 --> 00:42:50,364
Speaker 2: Yes, I actually find I get quite territorial, and I

859
00:42:50,524 --> 00:42:53,805
Speaker 2: like move my creation away from my daughter, like, don't

860
00:42:53,884 --> 00:42:56,684
Speaker 2: mess with my color pattern that I've made. But you

861
00:42:56,685 --> 00:42:58,684
Speaker 2: can get like you can get cheap versions of them

862
00:42:58,765 --> 00:43:00,725
Speaker 2: at Kmart. But the ones I got, we're on Amazon.

863
00:43:00,844 --> 00:43:03,884
Speaker 2: I got them from Steam Studios is one set, and

864
00:43:03,924 --> 00:43:06,044
Speaker 2: then we got another set from an Aussie startup called

865
00:43:06,125 --> 00:43:09,205
Speaker 2: Kinetics with an X on the end, and they're just

866
00:43:09,685 --> 00:43:12,805
Speaker 2: so great and even create puzzles for your kids trace

867
00:43:12,844 --> 00:43:15,484
Speaker 2: around the outside and then remove the magnets, stick it

868
00:43:15,564 --> 00:43:17,524
Speaker 2: up on the fridge and then they have to fit

869
00:43:17,645 --> 00:43:19,684
Speaker 2: in the shapes to the pattern you've given them. And

870
00:43:19,725 --> 00:43:22,404
Speaker 2: it takes age, really good distraction.

871
00:43:23,125 --> 00:43:26,084
Speaker 3: What age would you say you could start? So if

872
00:43:26,165 --> 00:43:28,284
Speaker 3: Luna's just two, yeah, like is this something she could

873
00:43:28,285 --> 00:43:28,564
Speaker 3: play with?

874
00:43:28,765 --> 00:43:33,205
Speaker 2: I bought them for her second birthday and she absolutely

875
00:43:33,364 --> 00:43:35,404
Speaker 2: loves them. Still they still do them every week.

876
00:43:35,484 --> 00:43:38,805
Speaker 1: I'm going to hijack the recommendation and say I wholeheartedly agree,

877
00:43:38,924 --> 00:43:41,884
Speaker 1: and recently I picked up the sort of like original

878
00:43:42,044 --> 00:43:45,884
Speaker 1: brand of the Magnetic Squares has now got a travel tin,

879
00:43:46,285 --> 00:43:49,444
Speaker 1: which is brilliant because they are sort of big, like

880
00:43:49,524 --> 00:43:52,604
Speaker 1: you wouldn't want to pack them in a suitcase. But

881
00:43:52,725 --> 00:43:55,284
Speaker 1: now with this travel tin with the miniature ones, they're

882
00:43:55,285 --> 00:43:57,404
Speaker 1: so cute and you can now travel with them too.

883
00:43:57,685 --> 00:43:59,644
Speaker 3: I knew I was losing the plot a bit this

884
00:43:59,685 --> 00:44:03,725
Speaker 3: morning when I was thinking about my recommendation and Luna

885
00:44:03,765 --> 00:44:06,285
Speaker 3: this morning heard the garbage truck man and we went

886
00:44:06,325 --> 00:44:08,964
Speaker 3: outside and saw that they all waved at her, and

887
00:44:09,004 --> 00:44:13,484
Speaker 3: I was like, I should recommend guage truck and came aside,

888
00:44:13,564 --> 00:44:16,325
Speaker 3: Luna's not well, like she's had a running nose and stuff.

889
00:44:16,765 --> 00:44:22,004
Speaker 3: And I found on YouTube garbage truck Man and it's

890
00:44:22,044 --> 00:44:25,204
Speaker 3: just people emptying bins right, and I had it up

891
00:44:25,205 --> 00:44:29,805
Speaker 3: on YouTube and it was so meditative. I was for me.

892
00:44:29,924 --> 00:44:31,765
Speaker 3: I was like, I'm not bored, I'm actually really it

893
00:44:31,844 --> 00:44:34,884
Speaker 3: was so satisfying, and I was like, what a great

894
00:44:34,964 --> 00:44:37,604
Speaker 3: job to just go and clean stuff up every day,

895
00:44:37,765 --> 00:44:40,124
Speaker 3: engage with the community. I was like, this is great.

896
00:44:40,125 --> 00:44:42,685
Speaker 3: We should just be watching an iverage truck YouTube.

897
00:44:42,884 --> 00:44:46,165
Speaker 1: Cancer instinctively drawn to like some of the best people

898
00:44:46,205 --> 00:44:49,605
Speaker 1: in our community, people who pick up the rubbish, the postman,

899
00:44:49,765 --> 00:44:54,484
Speaker 1: the postman, firefighters, paleontologists don't know what's up.

900
00:44:54,484 --> 00:44:57,805
Speaker 3: They know where it's at. They know the actual hierarchy

901
00:44:57,844 --> 00:44:58,484
Speaker 3: of society.

902
00:44:58,524 --> 00:45:01,245
Speaker 2: I explayed to my daughter that those are jobs like

903
00:45:01,404 --> 00:45:03,564
Speaker 2: about a yoga because I think I realized because my

904
00:45:03,645 --> 00:45:05,564
Speaker 2: husband and I both writers, that she just thinks like

905
00:45:05,685 --> 00:45:08,124
Speaker 2: work is keyboard and that's a job.

906
00:45:08,285 --> 00:45:08,684
Speaker 1: You could go.

907
00:45:08,805 --> 00:45:12,764
Speaker 2: You don't have to be like us, you can do that.

908
00:45:12,765 --> 00:45:15,364
Speaker 3: That is all we have time for on parenting out

909
00:45:15,404 --> 00:45:18,924
Speaker 3: loud today, and you know what my call parents? Where

910
00:45:18,924 --> 00:45:20,285
Speaker 3: can I go on a bit of parentally?

911
00:45:21,125 --> 00:45:22,244
Speaker 1: Are we going on a baby move?

912
00:45:22,364 --> 00:45:23,884
Speaker 3: Well, we should go on a baby.

913
00:45:24,604 --> 00:45:26,124
Speaker 2: One of these postnatal retreats.

914
00:45:26,364 --> 00:45:27,004
Speaker 3: That's what we're doing.

915
00:45:27,004 --> 00:45:29,685
Speaker 1: We're going on a post post natal I hope that's okay.

916
00:45:29,765 --> 00:45:32,325
Speaker 3: Do you mean we're all post natal? We have producer,

917
00:45:32,364 --> 00:45:35,004
Speaker 3: Ruth has grown up kids, she's postnatal. She needs a

918
00:45:35,004 --> 00:45:37,124
Speaker 3: post natal retreat. We all do. So we're going to

919
00:45:37,205 --> 00:45:39,285
Speaker 3: go off there. And it's been so.

920
00:45:39,165 --> 00:45:42,524
Speaker 1: Fun, book centered, candle and just relaxed.

921
00:45:42,884 --> 00:45:44,884
Speaker 3: It has been so fun working with both of you,

922
00:45:45,004 --> 00:45:49,164
Speaker 3: Amelia and Stacy and having all of our listeners join

923
00:45:49,285 --> 00:45:51,844
Speaker 3: us and we're keeping it open.

924
00:45:52,044 --> 00:45:54,604
Speaker 1: We maybe, maybe the three of us can just get

925
00:45:54,645 --> 00:45:59,404
Speaker 1: together with some magnetic tie, create some things and watch some.

926
00:46:01,604 --> 00:46:02,164
Speaker 2: Sounds great.

927
00:46:02,285 --> 00:46:03,045
Speaker 1: Let's go now.

928
00:46:04,964 --> 00:46:12,844
Speaker 3: Until next time. Bye,