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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mama Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to

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Speaker 2: Mom and Me are out Loud.

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Speaker 3: It's what women are actually talking about on Monday, the

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Speaker 3: twenty second of July.

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Speaker 1: I'm Holly Wayne Wright, I'm Meya Friedman.

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Speaker 4: I'm Jessie Stevens, and my weekend was made by looking

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Speaker 4: at where out louders are listening. There were so many

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Speaker 4: outlouders and tractors as few assumed.

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Speaker 1: So many on tractors. There was a drama in the

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Speaker 1: out Louders Facebook group because someone posted a photo of

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Speaker 1: themselves in the shower where they have a coffee nima

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Speaker 1: while listening, and that proved to be controversial.

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Speaker 4: Some people said, don't think it's appropriate. Others thought it

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Speaker 4: was very funny, very funny.

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Speaker 3: We had doctors offices, we had people obviously cooking and folding,

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Speaker 3: washing and all those boring things that people don't like doing.

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Speaker 2: But so many regional outlouders.

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Speaker 4: And so many around the world that was really exciting too.

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Speaker 4: So please keep tagging us on the Mummeer out loud

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Speaker 4: Instagram page.

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Speaker 5: We are loving watching, and look.

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Speaker 4: We've got a few that we really really like and

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Speaker 4: we'll be sending out signed copies to the winner.

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Speaker 3: Those lucky, lucky people.

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Speaker 5: Lucky people sign copies of our books.

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Speaker 2: To the winner on the show today.

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Speaker 3: It's been a quiet few days in US election news,

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Speaker 3: not really just kidding.

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden got a weekend.

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Speaker 2: I know, we did get a weekend.

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Speaker 3: And then Joe Biden very thoughtfully announced that he was

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Speaker 3: stepping down, just at the perfect time for us to

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Speaker 3: be able to circle our American politics wagons yep, and

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Speaker 3: bring you what's next.

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Speaker 4: And of course Mayor is writing her thank you note

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Speaker 4: to Joe Biden. To all the out louders who are wondering,

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Speaker 4: I'm sure we'll get into that.

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Speaker 3: Also, the workplace mistake that ruined an awful lot of

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Speaker 3: Friday afternoons. And yes, we are living in a world

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Speaker 3: where a repentant movie star has just given a high

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Speaker 3: profile interview to deny being a cannibal. Welcome to the

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Speaker 3: comeback of Army Hammer.

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Speaker 1: But first, Mesad, my favorite story from the weekend, in

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Speaker 1: case you missed it, is that Dubai Princess has declared

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Speaker 1: her divorce on Instagram. Married Just over a year ago,

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Speaker 1: Shaker Mahra posted on Instagram, dear husband, as you are

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Speaker 1: occupied with other companions, I hereby declare our divorce. I

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Speaker 1: divorce you. I divorce you, and I divorce you. Take

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Speaker 1: care your ex wife. The only thing that could have

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Speaker 1: made it better as if it was on the notes app.

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Speaker 1: Who is this queen you ask? She's thirty years old.

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Speaker 1: She's a daughter and one of the twenty six children

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Speaker 1: of Sheik Muhammad, who is the Prime Minister and Vice

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Speaker 1: President of the United Arab Emirates. So the reason she

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Speaker 1: said I divorced you, I divorced you, and I divorce you.

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Speaker 1: There was a story on Mamma Mia that unpacked this story,

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Speaker 1: which will link to in the show notes. But it

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Speaker 1: refers to a tradition that's not widely practiced. It's called

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Speaker 1: to luck, and in some Muslim communities it refers to

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Speaker 1: the right of a man to divorce his wife, and

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Speaker 1: he can do it either verbally or in writing by

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Speaker 1: just saying I divorced you three times.

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Speaker 6: Now.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't go the other way. Women can't divorce their

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Speaker 1: husbands by this same sort of ancient tradition, so it

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Speaker 1: was more symbolic than anything else. But I looked a

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Speaker 1: little bit further into this very interesting woman. She got

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Speaker 1: married a year ago to this dude, and she gave

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Speaker 1: birth to their first child ten weeks ago.

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Speaker 4: And did you see the caption on that image of

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Speaker 4: the child. I went back, as I need to look

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Speaker 4: at the Instagram activity.

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Speaker 1: Well, I would, of course immediately I went back to

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Speaker 1: make sure first of course, that it was her legitimate account.

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Speaker 1: It is on her account that she posted that she

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Speaker 1: has almost nine hundred thousand followers, and there are no

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Speaker 1: photos of him because they've each deleted all the photos

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Speaker 1: of each other, including of their lavish wedding, from their

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Speaker 1: respective Instagram accounts.

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Speaker 4: Classic breakup. They've unfollowed each other. That's when you know

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Speaker 4: it's done. And she wrote this is about six weeks

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Speaker 4: ago with the baby. She just wrote just the two

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Speaker 4: of us, which was weeks ago, Yeah, which might have looked,

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Speaker 4: you know, out of context, just like a sweet little

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Speaker 4: picture with the newborn.

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Speaker 5: But now it's very loaded.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to know more about the husband, or the

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Speaker 1: ex husband as he will soon be. His name's Sheik

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Speaker 1: Mana al Maktoum, and he's widely known for his involvement

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Speaker 1: in various successful ventures. He has made a name for

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Speaker 1: himself as a successful entrepreneur and passionate traveler, among other things.

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Speaker 7: It would seem this is an ABC News special report.

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Speaker 5: Good afternoon, I'm Rachel Scott at ABC headquarters here in

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Speaker 5: New York.

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Speaker 1: We are coming on the air at this hour with

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Speaker 1: breaking news.

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Speaker 4: President Biden has just announced that he is ending his

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Speaker 4: reelection bid.

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Speaker 8: Biden wrote, quote that it has been the greatest honor

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Speaker 8: of my life to serve as your president.

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Speaker 7: And while it has been my intention to seek reelection,

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Speaker 7: I believe it.

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Speaker 8: Is in the best interest of my party and the

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Speaker 8: country for me to stand down and to focus solely

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Speaker 8: on fulfilling my duties as president for the remainder of

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Speaker 8: my term.

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Speaker 6: The only thing hotter than the temperature here in the

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Speaker 6: end the United States right now is the heat of

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Speaker 6: the conversation about what's been happening. We've used the word

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Speaker 6: unprecedented so many times, but we really are in unprecedented

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Speaker 6: territory here with this.

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Speaker 3: On Saturday afternoon, Joe Biden called Steve Ricketti, one of

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Speaker 3: his closest advisors, and told him that he needed to

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Speaker 3: come to the Biden Holiday House straight away and bring

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Speaker 3: with him chief strategist Mike Donnillan. The reason Biden's at

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Speaker 3: the family beach house are not at work in the

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Speaker 3: White House is that he's sick with COVID. And you

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Speaker 3: might have seen that last week. His staff went straight there,

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Speaker 3: wearing their masks and giving the President of the United

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Speaker 3: States a wide berth and they began to game plan

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Speaker 3: out what was broadly inevitable, but until Sunday afternoon US time,

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Speaker 3: certainly not a done deal. Biden, under immense pressure from

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Speaker 3: his party, his country, and yes us here at momamere

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Speaker 3: out loud. We're very influential. The Biden family, as I'm

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Speaker 3: sure you know, was.

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Speaker 1: Dual pressuring him, maybe maybe not.

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Speaker 3: Was stepping down as the presidential candidate for twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 3: It was not going to be eighty one year old

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Speaker 3: Hymn taking on Trump. In November, The New York Times

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Speaker 3: reports that on Sunday morning, he called three people, Vice

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Speaker 3: President Kamala Harris, his White House chief of staff, and

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Speaker 3: his campaign chairwoman and told them, but they didn't tell

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Speaker 3: anyone else on his staff until one minute before he

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Speaker 3: made the announcement to the world on social media. On Sunday,

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Speaker 3: he got on a zoom call. That's like when your

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Speaker 3: boss tells you to get on a zoom call on

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Speaker 3: Sunday morning, you're like, Ah. He got on a zoom

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Speaker 3: call with the rest of his staff and he read

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Speaker 3: them in his raspy, COVID affected voice, his letter of resignation.

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Speaker 3: He thanked them for their service, and then he pushed

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Speaker 3: go on posting the letter to social media. And then

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Speaker 3: he said to his team, apparently, come to me with

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Speaker 3: the work and let's get it done. He posted at

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Speaker 3: one forty six pm.

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Speaker 2: The reaction was swift.

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Speaker 3: A surprise but not a shock, is how some described it,

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Speaker 3: referring more to the timing and the manner of it

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Speaker 3: than the announcement, which everybody's been kind of hoping was

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Speaker 3: going to come for a while. And the Democrats immediately

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Speaker 3: rolled out there, Joe is a hero, What a wonderful president,

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Speaker 3: What a selfless act? This has been tributes and Trump's

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Speaker 3: Republicans immediately went on the attack, questioning who is and

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Speaker 3: who has been running the country, calling for Biden's immediate

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Speaker 3: resignation as president, and pointing hard at the perceived deception

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Speaker 3: of the Democrats for keeping Biden's condition secret for so long.

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump said, bless him. He's always so reasonable, isn't he.

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Speaker 1: I bet he just said, I wish you well, old mate.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I hope you recover stiffly.

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Speaker 3: Yes, What did he say that crooked Joe Biden was

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Speaker 3: not fit to run for president? He's certainly not fit

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Speaker 3: to serve and he never was explamation Mark. He only

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Speaker 3: attained the position of president by lies, fake news in

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Speaker 3: capital letters, and by not leaving his basement. All those

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Speaker 3: around him, all those around him, including his doctor and

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Speaker 3: the media, knew that he wasn't capable of being president,

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Speaker 3: and he wasn't an Now, look what he's done to

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Speaker 3: our country, with millions of people coming across our border,

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Speaker 3: totally unchecked and unvetted, many from prisons, mental institutions, and

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Speaker 3: record numbers of terrorists. We will suffer greatly because of

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Speaker 3: his president, but we will remedy the damage he has

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Speaker 3: done very quickly make America great again. Maya Jesse, what

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Speaker 3: were your feelings on waking up to this news.

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Speaker 1: I was relieved, of course, I was also quite surprised

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Speaker 1: because it was just it had become this incredible stalemate,

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Speaker 1: and I was girding as many Democrats were. Not that

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Speaker 1: I'm a Democrat, I live in a different country, but

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Speaker 1: I was getting monary incensed that an entire party, and indeed,

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Speaker 1: potentially an entire democratic system, was being held hostage by

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Speaker 1: this man who was said to be stubborn and digging

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Speaker 1: in and angry that people were betraying him. And it's like, dude,

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Speaker 1: it's not about you.

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Speaker 4: I thought the whole democratic system was being held hostage

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Speaker 4: by his wife, Jill.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's true because I think if Jill had said,

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad you put it out, Jesse, Because if

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Speaker 1: Jill had said, Joe, it's time to go stop, Joe

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Speaker 1: would have been so. But if Jill had said three

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Speaker 1: weeks a year ago, when he decided he was going

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Speaker 1: to run, Joe, sweetie, no, then we wouldn't be here.

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Speaker 4: So the argument that we've been having for weeks is

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Speaker 4: whether or not Jill actually had any power in that.

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Speaker 4: I mean, now that he has stepped down, are we

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Speaker 4: going to give her a little bit of credit that

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Speaker 4: perhaps perhaps Jill has actually been in his earl along.

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Speaker 4: They've been in the holiday house, they've been having maybe

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Speaker 4: some chats, maybe some walks along the beach, maybe some

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Speaker 4: bedside conversations.

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Speaker 1: She posted a love heart emoji you know, the double

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Speaker 1: love hearts yep, and the sound you can hear also

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Speaker 1: is Donald Trump frantically googling what rhymes with Kamala.

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Speaker 3: That brings us to what's next. Over the past few weeks,

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Speaker 3: since that fateful debate, it's been widely said that there

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Speaker 3: were two options for the Dems to replace Biden. Either

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Speaker 3: Biden annoints Harris, making her a pretty sure shoey for

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Speaker 3: the nomination going into the convention in three weeks time,

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Speaker 3: similar to how we've just seen Trump right at the

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Speaker 3: Republican Convention being chosen even though obviously he was chosen

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Speaker 3: a long time ago. Or the idea was a few

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Speaker 3: candidates emerge and they run into the convention with like

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Speaker 3: open debates and sort of campaigning, and then at the

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Speaker 3: convention they pick someone, which is apparently how it used

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Speaker 3: to be done in the olden days but hasn't been

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Speaker 3: for ages. It very much looks like the former is happening.

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Speaker 3: And although he didn't do it instantly, he did keep

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Speaker 3: Kamala hanging for half an hour. Biden has endorsed her

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Speaker 3: as his pick for the nominee. She of course, is

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Speaker 3: the vice president, and although she's been publicly backing Biden

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Speaker 3: in the last few weeks, she has also been conspicuously

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Speaker 3: visible and giving some pretty good speeches in a way

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Speaker 3: that the president is certainly not able to do at

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Speaker 3: the minute. Here she is a few days ago talking

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Speaker 3: about the Republican Convention and its claims to be the

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Speaker 3: Party of Unity.

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Speaker 9: You cannot claim you stand unity if you are intent

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Speaker 9: on taking reproductive freedoms from the people of America and

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Speaker 9: the women of America, trying to ban abortion nationwide as

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Speaker 9: they do, and restrict access to IVF and contraception as

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Speaker 9: their plan calls for.

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Speaker 1: She responded to the announcement that Joe Biden was stepping

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Speaker 1: aside by posting on behalf of the American people. I

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Speaker 1: thank Joe Biden for his extraordinary leadership as President of

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Speaker 1: the United States. I'm honored to have the President's endorsement,

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Speaker 1: and my intention is to earn and win this nomination.

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Speaker 1: I will do everything in my power to unite the

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Speaker 1: Democratic Party and unite our nation to defeat Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: and his extreme Project twenty twenty five agenda. If you're

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Speaker 1: with me at a donation right now at my link

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Speaker 1: in bio. Few things about that. First of all, the

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Speaker 1: money's going to start coming back again. The donation tap

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Speaker 1: will be turned on. Pretty much everybody, every major and

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Speaker 1: minor donor in the Democratic Party had switched the tap off.

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Speaker 4: Read and tell me if this is true or not.

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Speaker 4: That if he endorses Kamala Harris, then the donations can

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Speaker 4: go to her. But if it's a completely different nominee,

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Speaker 4: then they have to raise money themselves.

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Speaker 3: If it's a completely different nominee, the money goes back

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Speaker 3: to the party.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and then it's complicated.

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Speaker 3: To the nominee in a new way. But because the

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Speaker 3: money was donated to Biden Harris, it's kamel as money.

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Speaker 1: So there's about one hundred and fifty million dollars in

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Speaker 1: an account. The Republicans are going to try and block

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Speaker 1: that easy transition. They're already working to make that happen

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Speaker 1: in that grab. In her statement, the two things that

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Speaker 1: are interesting. Instead of Joe Biden, who's only been able

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Speaker 1: to talk about his own mental acuity over the last

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Speaker 1: little while, she named two things that are really really

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Speaker 1: strong points of vulnerability for Trump and the Republican Party.

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Speaker 1: The first is women's reproductive rights and abortion, which Joe

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Speaker 1: Biden has really not been able to articulate at all.

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Speaker 1: And the second is Project twenty twenty five. Hole, can

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Speaker 1: you explain what that is?

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Speaker 3: Yes, So it was very clever of Harris to mention

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Speaker 3: straight off the bat in her first post, because if

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Speaker 3: you have not heard of Project twenty twenty five, turned

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Speaker 3: to your teenager in your life and ask them about it, right,

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Speaker 3: because it is a story that's now blown up into

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Speaker 3: the mainstream, but it's been bubbling away in places like

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Speaker 3: TikTok for age. It's my fourteen year old knows about

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Speaker 3: Project twenty twenty five what it actually is. And the

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Speaker 3: ABC's four corners are doing a great two power on

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Speaker 3: Trump that goes into this. I talked about it a

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Speaker 3: bit on Friday, but it's basically this plan that a

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Speaker 3: sort of cohort of quite right as in right leaning Republicans,

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Speaker 3: mostly MAGA people have been working on putting in place

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Speaker 3: that in theory, means that when Donald Trump, if Donald

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Speaker 3: Trump gets elected president on day one, he can go

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Speaker 3: into lots of organizations within the government. Because remember, to

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Speaker 3: get anything done in any government takes a long time.

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Speaker 3: You've got all the levels of civil service you've got

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Speaker 3: to get through. The idea is having right leaning, sympathetic

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Speaker 3: Trump Conservatives ready to go in all those institutions turfing

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Speaker 3: out the people who are there.

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Speaker 2: Jd.

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Speaker 3: Vance has said he wants to fire all the mid

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Speaker 3: level bureau crats in America on day one of Trump

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Speaker 3: presidency to get the Trump sympathists in there, and then

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Speaker 3: the idea is they can go hard on enacting things

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Speaker 3: they really want to do, like a nationwide abortion Bannon,

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Speaker 3: as Harris mentioned in that.

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Speaker 2: Speech, not just about abortion.

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Speaker 3: It's also even about contraception IVF coming after same sex marriage,

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Speaker 3: marriage equality, lifting, lots of restrictions on where you can

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Speaker 3: drill for oil, lots.

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Speaker 5: Of very import that sounds like tyranny.

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Speaker 3: To be honest and even handed about this, Trump has

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Speaker 3: begun to distance himself a bit from the Project twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty five thing, and so there are little bits of

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Speaker 3: debate about how legit it really is, but it's definitely happening.

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Speaker 3: The ABC's documentary got a lot of people on the record,

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Speaker 3: and have a copy of the whole documentation watch.

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Speaker 1: The first thing he will do is change that you

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Speaker 1: can only be president for two terms.

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Speaker 4: You say that like he's a shoe in and I

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Speaker 4: would like to I am feeling optimistic relief.

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Speaker 3: So let me do tiny bit about camera and then

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Speaker 3: we can go to how excited we are or are

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Speaker 3: not about this now. So if you just need a

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Speaker 3: very quick reminder on who Harris is, she's fifty nine,

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Speaker 3: which is so.

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Speaker 2: Young in comparison. He's a gen XA.

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Speaker 3: She is a politician from California who has a really

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Speaker 3: long legal career. So she was the DA for San Francisco.

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Speaker 3: She was the Attorney General for California. So she's a prosecutor, right,

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Speaker 3: which is why she's very good at arguing. She's married

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Speaker 3: to fellow lawyer Doug Emhoff. She has two adult step

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Speaker 3: children with him, and she famously said they call her

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Speaker 3: Mamola when she was sworn in. She's the first woman,

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Speaker 3: obviously VP, the first Black American and the first Indian

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Speaker 3: American to take the role. The people who love her

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Speaker 3: say she's great because she knows how to get shit done,

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Speaker 3: that she's progressive but tough on crime, and with her

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Speaker 3: legal history, she has the chops to be aggressive in

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Speaker 3: her opposition to him. She's young, she's energetic, and she

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Speaker 3: could run for two terms. The people who are not

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Speaker 3: so keen say that she has disappointed in the VP role,

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Speaker 3: that she's not very good off the cuff, and she's

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Speaker 3: not what they call a performance politician, which can be

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Speaker 3: a problem when you're up against a man who is

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Speaker 3: all performance, which is what Donald Trump is. So Mia

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Speaker 3: and Jesse, are we excited and are we excited about Harris?

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Speaker 4: I'm excited And I think that this is a case.

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Speaker 4: I remember thinking this about Joe Biden a while back,

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Speaker 4: that it was a man who met his moment. And

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Speaker 4: I think that this has the potential to be a

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Speaker 4: candidate who's met her moment. Because she is a prosecutor

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Speaker 4: who is up against a convicted felon, there's a really

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Speaker 4: easy campaign line. She's hard on crime, and she always

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Speaker 4: has been. That's part of her history. So she's a

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Speaker 4: Democrat who's hard on crime, which it will appeal to

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Speaker 4: a certain centrist Republican. And with even what Trump said

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Speaker 4: about immigration and crime and terrorism and blah blah, whether

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Speaker 4: or not that's true, Kamala actually has the history and

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Speaker 4: the qualifications to say I know how to fix this.

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Speaker 4: I think Kamala at her absolute best. I've been listening

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Speaker 4: to clips from her exchanges with Brett Kavanagh. When she

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Speaker 4: is in her element, she is very, very good. And

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Speaker 4: I've heard analysts who are a lot smarter than me

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Speaker 4: say she's great at the specific. She's really good on

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Speaker 4: a point. She's really good at legislation, she's really good

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Speaker 4: at pressing something. What she's not great at And when

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Speaker 4: people say she's not a great performance politician, she's not

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Speaker 4: necessarily someone who can stand on stage and deliver this rousing,

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Speaker 4: exciting broad strokes speech about the future. That's not something

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Speaker 4: they've seen from her like Obama.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And she's not particularly Trump yeah. And she's not particularly

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Speaker 4: interested in a personal narrative. So there's this great profile

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Speaker 4: that was written, I think, in The New Yorker about

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Speaker 4: her a few years back. She said, I don't feel

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Speaker 4: comfortable talking about myself. That's not what she finds interesting.

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Speaker 3: Is also rather start contrast to somebody else.

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Speaker 5: So she's great when she has a job to do.

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Speaker 4: But I also heard someone say, who's a longtime adviser

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Speaker 4: of hers, one thing that drives her crazy is getting

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Speaker 4: reduced to a demographics stereotype. It is going to be

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Speaker 4: enormously symbolic to have a candidate up who's the first

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Speaker 4: female woman of color who's potentially president of the United States.

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Speaker 4: To her, I don't think that's going to be the

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Speaker 4: most interesting thing. She's very much like, I deserve this,

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Speaker 4: I'm qualified for this, and I have a lot of

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Speaker 4: work to do.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if she says I deserve this, but

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Speaker 1: I think it was important that she said I want

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Speaker 1: to earn this nomination.

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Speaker 5: What do you think of that mean?

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Speaker 1: It means that she's not accepting it as a leydown Mazet.

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Speaker 1: She's not accepting it as a foregone conclusion. She knows

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Speaker 1: because it's true, she does have to work, and currently,

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Speaker 1: you know, reports are that she's of course working the phones.

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Speaker 1: She's already got the endorsement of the Clintons, of Pete

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Speaker 1: Boodage Edge of Gavin Newsom, who is another considered both

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Speaker 1: of them were considered to be front runners if it

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Speaker 1: was going to be an open convention.

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Speaker 4: The convention this is this is where I could see

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Speaker 4: things going really wrong, right is if this breaks into

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Speaker 4: all out chaos and then you have a whole lot

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Speaker 4: of nominees come forward and go I want to I

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Speaker 4: want it, then what can happen is that you get

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Speaker 4: this infighting. We've seen this in Australia a little bit,

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Speaker 4: but then you've got a lack of unity, a lack

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Speaker 4: of narrative.

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Speaker 5: The Republicans jump on that. Do you see a world

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Speaker 5: in which that happens.

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Speaker 1: I did before, but I don't now because I think

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Speaker 1: that all the senior Democrats are working behind the scenes,

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Speaker 1: and they were working behind the scenes to engineer Biden

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Speaker 1: to step aside without publicly humiliating him and holding a

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Speaker 1: press conference, and now they will work on what's the

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Speaker 1: best thing for the party at this point, because what

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Speaker 1: you describe is the American political system, but usually it

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Speaker 1: happens like two years before an election. And I actually

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Speaker 1: think even though this is highly unusual and unprecedented, et cetera, etc.

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Speaker 1: And it seemed like the Republican convention last week, in contrast,

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Speaker 1: was like almost a victory rally four months too soon.

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Speaker 1: So if they've got a vulnerability, it's that they've peaked

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Speaker 1: too early. Here's what I think is going to happen

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Speaker 1: from here, and here's where I think her strengths and

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Speaker 1: her weaknesses. The most important thing, remember is getting people

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Speaker 1: interested enough to go out and vote. Now again, I

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Speaker 1: don't vote but a lot of people were feeling completely despondent.

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Speaker 1: I've got to choose between Joe Biden and Donald Trump.

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Speaker 1: I'm not excited about that. Now suddenly women have a

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Speaker 1: reason to get out. African Americans, some of whom, of course,

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Speaker 1: are responsive to Trump, who's trying to say who's the

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Speaker 1: unity candidate, they are likely to be more engaged. But

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Speaker 1: what's going to be interesting. All you needed to know

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Speaker 1: is that the Trump campaign really wanted Joe Biden to stay.

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Speaker 1: I were just hoping, hoping, hoping that he was going

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Speaker 1: to stay. Because this makes things different. What I think

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Speaker 1: this is going to expose, and what I think we

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Speaker 1: all have to be ready for in the next few months,

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Speaker 1: is that it is going to get incredibly ugly because

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Speaker 1: when he feels challenged, Donald Trump will go at her race,

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Speaker 1: and he will go at her gender. It will go

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Speaker 1: back to that awful awfulness of when he was running

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Speaker 1: against Hillary, which we didn't see as much when he

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Speaker 1: was running against Joe Biden because he was going up

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Speaker 1: against another white so he doesn't automatically reach for the

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Speaker 1: most disgusting form of abuse.

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Speaker 4: Well, already we're seeing the seeds of questioning about her heritage.

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Speaker 4: So because both of her parents weren't born in the US.

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Speaker 4: One was born in Jamaica and one was born in India.

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Speaker 4: There's remember the Obama thing about him not being the

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Speaker 4: birth is exactly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like the equivalent of but her emails. What

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Speaker 1: is also going to be interesting internally is that because

440
00:21:35,127 --> 00:21:38,727
Speaker 1: she's a candidate of color, what's little known about JD.

441
00:21:38,887 --> 00:21:42,007
Speaker 1: Vance is that his wife is the daughter of Indian immigrants.

442
00:21:42,607 --> 00:21:47,127
Speaker 1: So once he starts persecuting Kamala Harris based on her

443
00:21:47,247 --> 00:21:51,287
Speaker 1: race and her Indian heritage, which he will surely, that's

444
00:21:51,287 --> 00:21:53,967
Speaker 1: going to make for some slightly awkward conversations around the

445
00:21:54,047 --> 00:21:57,447
Speaker 1: Vance dinner table because his children are the grandchildren of

446
00:21:57,487 --> 00:21:58,167
Speaker 1: Indian immigrants.

447
00:21:58,207 --> 00:22:01,247
Speaker 3: Yeah, but Vance is pretty nationalistic himself, right, and he's

448
00:22:01,287 --> 00:22:03,927
Speaker 3: all about heroing the white working class, So he plays

449
00:22:03,927 --> 00:22:06,527
Speaker 3: that low. There's a dog whistle we have to listen

450
00:22:06,567 --> 00:22:09,047
Speaker 3: out for. I mean, there's so many potential dog whistles

451
00:22:09,047 --> 00:22:12,607
Speaker 3: a Harris. But when people say she's not a performance politician,

452
00:22:13,167 --> 00:22:15,367
Speaker 3: think about women in politics. The same thing was said

453
00:22:15,407 --> 00:22:17,647
Speaker 3: about Clinton, the same thing was said about Julia Gillard

454
00:22:18,047 --> 00:22:21,207
Speaker 3: is they're like head girls, Like they work really hard.

455
00:22:21,207 --> 00:22:23,487
Speaker 2: Because they've had to work really effing.

456
00:22:23,207 --> 00:22:26,287
Speaker 3: Hard, much harder than lots of blokes who would have

457
00:22:26,287 --> 00:22:29,207
Speaker 3: waltzed into the kind of high profile, you know, jobs

458
00:22:29,247 --> 00:22:31,567
Speaker 3: that they've done that they're often kind of criticized for

459
00:22:31,607 --> 00:22:35,927
Speaker 3: being too studious, serious, good at policy, good at detail,

460
00:22:35,967 --> 00:22:39,687
Speaker 3: good at getting shit done, and often that gets criticized

461
00:22:39,727 --> 00:22:42,527
Speaker 3: as being like, they're not very good. They're not really inspiring,

462
00:22:42,607 --> 00:22:45,767
Speaker 3: are they. They're not really good orators. They're not orators.

463
00:22:45,767 --> 00:22:48,767
Speaker 3: They're not really very great at performing, like a Trump,

464
00:22:48,807 --> 00:22:50,567
Speaker 3: you know, who can't organize a piss up in a

465
00:22:50,607 --> 00:22:52,527
Speaker 3: brewery but is really good on a stage full of

466
00:22:52,887 --> 00:22:56,327
Speaker 3: rabid enthusiasts. So I think you want to watch for

467
00:22:56,367 --> 00:23:00,047
Speaker 3: some of that kind of unspoken sexism that even comes

468
00:23:00,087 --> 00:23:02,847
Speaker 3: from within the Democrats. Around Harris. It's like, well, she's

469
00:23:02,887 --> 00:23:05,207
Speaker 3: a bit boring. It's like she would say she's a

470
00:23:05,207 --> 00:23:07,127
Speaker 3: bit boring because she's been getting a lot of shit

471
00:23:07,207 --> 00:23:09,247
Speaker 3: done and that, you know, the press don't want to

472
00:23:09,327 --> 00:23:13,447
Speaker 3: come and see her at town hall meetings in Michigan

473
00:23:13,567 --> 00:23:16,927
Speaker 3: or whatever, working on actual projects that help people. So

474
00:23:16,967 --> 00:23:18,647
Speaker 3: it's going to be really interesting to see what they

475
00:23:18,727 --> 00:23:21,687
Speaker 3: do about the razzle dazzle effect. But yeah, I think

476
00:23:21,727 --> 00:23:24,047
Speaker 3: it's suddenly got a lot more interesting. Democrats have got

477
00:23:24,047 --> 00:23:24,887
Speaker 3: the narrative back.

478
00:23:25,087 --> 00:23:28,647
Speaker 1: Remember also, when you're vice president, you're not allowed to shine. Yeah,

479
00:23:28,687 --> 00:23:31,567
Speaker 1: you're not allowed to outshine the president. Everything I know

480
00:23:31,647 --> 00:23:34,887
Speaker 1: about US politics vice presidents I know from VEEP, of course,

481
00:23:34,967 --> 00:23:38,047
Speaker 1: And that's the ongoing gag that you've got to be good,

482
00:23:38,087 --> 00:23:40,087
Speaker 1: but you can't be better than the president. And you've

483
00:23:40,127 --> 00:23:43,967
Speaker 1: had a president who's been pretty much invisible for the

484
00:23:44,047 --> 00:23:46,887
Speaker 1: last four years, so she has had to play it down.

485
00:23:47,047 --> 00:23:49,927
Speaker 1: And as we've discussed many times, what makes you good

486
00:23:49,927 --> 00:23:51,967
Speaker 1: at being elected is not necessarily what makes you good

487
00:23:51,967 --> 00:23:54,847
Speaker 1: at running a country. So Donald Trump is very good

488
00:23:54,847 --> 00:23:57,167
Speaker 1: at being elected. But I think things just got a

489
00:23:57,207 --> 00:23:58,367
Speaker 1: whole lot more interesting. You're right.

490
00:23:58,807 --> 00:24:01,887
Speaker 4: This is a fast evolving story, as we saw this morning.

491
00:24:01,967 --> 00:24:04,727
Speaker 4: To keep across the latest headlines, listen to our twice

492
00:24:04,807 --> 00:24:07,247
Speaker 4: daily news podcast, The Quickie. We're gonna pop a link

493
00:24:07,287 --> 00:24:09,967
Speaker 4: in the show notes Tomorrow's deep Down. It's all about

494
00:24:10,047 --> 00:24:12,687
Speaker 4: what will happen next, so tune in listen.

495
00:24:12,727 --> 00:24:16,967
Speaker 9: People can debate on style points, but ultimately this election

496
00:24:17,367 --> 00:24:20,367
Speaker 9: and who is the president of the United States has

497
00:24:20,407 --> 00:24:21,567
Speaker 9: to be about substance.

498
00:24:22,607 --> 00:24:27,847
Speaker 1: O the out loud for many people, Friday afternoon was

499
00:24:27,927 --> 00:24:32,247
Speaker 1: ruined thanks to one workplace mistake by someone. We don't

500
00:24:32,247 --> 00:24:32,887
Speaker 1: know who it was.

501
00:24:33,167 --> 00:24:34,367
Speaker 5: I'd love to know who it was.

502
00:24:34,527 --> 00:24:37,447
Speaker 1: I think that their performance review probably won't be great

503
00:24:37,887 --> 00:24:42,527
Speaker 1: this year. As a result of a malfunction in some

504
00:24:42,767 --> 00:24:49,127
Speaker 1: software made by a company called CrowdStrike, airport's, banks, media organizations, supermarkets, retailers,

505
00:24:49,367 --> 00:24:53,207
Speaker 1: and many out louders were among the organizations and individuals

506
00:24:53,207 --> 00:24:58,167
Speaker 1: whose lives were disrupted thanks to Microsoft's global outage. Now

507
00:24:58,287 --> 00:25:01,367
Speaker 1: you may have heard was it Microsoft? Was it CrowdStrike?

508
00:25:01,887 --> 00:25:05,087
Speaker 1: What happened is that there was a faulty software update

509
00:25:05,127 --> 00:25:07,527
Speaker 1: that was sent to many computers and devices around the world.

510
00:25:07,567 --> 00:25:10,287
Speaker 1: Pretty standard software updates happened and all the time. I

511
00:25:10,367 --> 00:25:13,087
Speaker 1: just did one this morning, and it was provided by

512
00:25:13,087 --> 00:25:18,727
Speaker 1: the cybersecurity firm CrowdStrike. And this update forced Windows based

513
00:25:18,767 --> 00:25:22,607
Speaker 1: computers to basically crash and show what we all know

514
00:25:22,807 --> 00:25:26,847
Speaker 1: as the blue screen of death. Here is CrowdStrike CEO

515
00:25:27,247 --> 00:25:28,087
Speaker 1: George Kurtz.

516
00:25:28,447 --> 00:25:31,167
Speaker 10: That update had a software bug in it and caused

517
00:25:32,247 --> 00:25:36,167
Speaker 10: an issue with the Microsoft operating system. And we identified

518
00:25:36,167 --> 00:25:39,887
Speaker 10: this very quickly and remediated the issue, and as systems

519
00:25:39,927 --> 00:25:42,607
Speaker 10: come back online as they're rebooted, they're coming up and

520
00:25:42,687 --> 00:25:46,127
Speaker 10: they're working, and now we are working with each and

521
00:25:46,167 --> 00:25:48,047
Speaker 10: every customer to make sure that we can bring them

522
00:25:48,087 --> 00:25:50,887
Speaker 10: back online. That was the extent of an issue. The

523
00:25:51,007 --> 00:25:53,167
Speaker 10: issue in terms of a bug that was.

524
00:25:53,167 --> 00:25:55,407
Speaker 11: Related to our update, as we said, that was the

525
00:25:55,407 --> 00:25:59,447
Speaker 11: CrowdStrike CEO George Kurtz, But the president of that company

526
00:25:59,487 --> 00:26:03,407
Speaker 11: is actually a Melbourne man called Michael Santonis.

527
00:26:03,807 --> 00:26:06,487
Speaker 1: It's been said that this incident is the largest IT

528
00:26:06,807 --> 00:26:10,927
Speaker 1: outage in history. Microsoft estimate that eight point five million

529
00:26:10,967 --> 00:26:14,647
Speaker 1: individual devices were hit by the outage and some of

530
00:26:14,687 --> 00:26:18,167
Speaker 1: the ways in which it impacted big and small. Triple

531
00:26:18,247 --> 00:26:21,087
Speaker 1: J presenters were forced to manually play the news theme

532
00:26:21,127 --> 00:26:23,287
Speaker 1: to air by holding up a phone to the microphone.

533
00:26:23,367 --> 00:26:26,527
Speaker 1: Oh bless, I love this, it's needs must people found

534
00:26:26,567 --> 00:26:30,127
Speaker 1: ways to get shut up Channel tens. The project wasn't

535
00:26:30,167 --> 00:26:31,487
Speaker 1: even sure if it would make it to air.

536
00:26:31,607 --> 00:26:32,247
Speaker 11: What am I saying?

537
00:26:32,247 --> 00:26:32,407
Speaker 3: Oh?

538
00:26:32,407 --> 00:26:34,007
Speaker 1: This is what happens when the systems go down.

539
00:26:34,727 --> 00:26:36,327
Speaker 9: Just weird text sort of appears on that.

540
00:26:36,727 --> 00:26:38,287
Speaker 5: We got a shot of a camera so you can

541
00:26:38,367 --> 00:26:40,687
Speaker 5: see how the coming to attack me.

542
00:26:40,767 --> 00:26:43,687
Speaker 9: Like, so, what's happened.

543
00:26:43,407 --> 00:26:45,927
Speaker 1: Is I started reading it and then the thing just

544
00:26:45,927 --> 00:26:47,447
Speaker 1: told me to go back to the start and read

545
00:26:47,487 --> 00:26:47,847
Speaker 1: it again.

546
00:26:47,967 --> 00:26:49,367
Speaker 2: That's right, So there you go.

547
00:26:49,567 --> 00:26:53,607
Speaker 1: Anyway, supermarkets were accepting cash only sales with f pos down,

548
00:26:53,647 --> 00:26:55,567
Speaker 1: and a lot of people, even over the weekend, could

549
00:26:55,647 --> 00:27:00,447
Speaker 1: not pay with anything other than cash at supermarkets. Remember cash. Airports,

550
00:27:00,447 --> 00:27:03,247
Speaker 1: of course, were in complete chaos. Some airlines were unaffected,

551
00:27:03,247 --> 00:27:05,527
Speaker 1: but many were, and some of these airlines had to

552
00:27:05,567 --> 00:27:08,127
Speaker 1: actually write people's boarding passes like, I don't know, here's

553
00:27:08,127 --> 00:27:10,287
Speaker 1: a post it note to get on the plane. Oh

554
00:27:10,367 --> 00:27:10,967
Speaker 1: my gosh.

555
00:27:11,007 --> 00:27:13,287
Speaker 4: There were more serious ones in that people couldn't pay

556
00:27:13,327 --> 00:27:15,447
Speaker 4: for petrol, which just meant they were kind of stuck.

557
00:27:15,727 --> 00:27:20,287
Speaker 4: Police and fire systems in Australia were affected, as well

558
00:27:20,407 --> 00:27:23,567
Speaker 4: as nine to one one lines in the US. A

559
00:27:23,607 --> 00:27:26,127
Speaker 4: lot of flights had to ground in the US as well,

560
00:27:26,127 --> 00:27:29,727
Speaker 4: and in Britain some doctors couldn't access the NHS systems,

561
00:27:30,047 --> 00:27:35,887
Speaker 4: so it got very close to seriously affecting people's lives.

562
00:27:36,167 --> 00:27:38,167
Speaker 4: It didn't, and that's what I think that there was

563
00:27:38,207 --> 00:27:40,247
Speaker 4: a moment. There's this movie called Leave the World Behind,

564
00:27:40,287 --> 00:27:42,207
Speaker 4: which I watched over the break, which has Julia Roberts

565
00:27:42,247 --> 00:27:44,887
Speaker 4: in it. Weird movie. Really enjoyed it. Bit sci fi,

566
00:27:45,047 --> 00:27:46,807
Speaker 4: bit sci fi bit by.

567
00:27:46,687 --> 00:27:49,927
Speaker 2: The Obamas, you know, little fact.

568
00:27:49,967 --> 00:27:52,167
Speaker 4: It was a little bit this, And that's what I

569
00:27:52,207 --> 00:27:54,447
Speaker 4: think we all wondered when we first saw it. It

570
00:27:54,487 --> 00:27:56,607
Speaker 4: was like a plane's going to fall out of the air.

571
00:27:57,647 --> 00:27:59,367
Speaker 5: I don't know. And this is the thing. You just

572
00:27:59,487 --> 00:28:00,247
Speaker 5: explained that.

573
00:28:00,447 --> 00:28:03,007
Speaker 4: And I would like to interrogate how much of it

574
00:28:03,047 --> 00:28:04,887
Speaker 4: you actually understand, because I've read a lot about this.

575
00:28:05,727 --> 00:28:08,887
Speaker 4: I don't understand what the grid is, where it is,

576
00:28:09,327 --> 00:28:10,367
Speaker 4: what button went wrong?

577
00:28:11,887 --> 00:28:14,407
Speaker 1: I do understand. So this is like a component part.

578
00:28:15,047 --> 00:28:18,647
Speaker 1: So you made a meal, and the provider of the

579
00:28:18,687 --> 00:28:21,287
Speaker 1: salt when oh, we've had a problem at the factory.

580
00:28:21,287 --> 00:28:24,447
Speaker 1: That salt's actually bad. Everyone that used that salt to

581
00:28:24,527 --> 00:28:28,087
Speaker 1: make their meal and have it in their pantry has

582
00:28:28,127 --> 00:28:29,887
Speaker 1: a bad meal and gets food poisoning.

583
00:28:29,967 --> 00:28:33,167
Speaker 4: And here's the problem with the salt, right, which is

584
00:28:33,207 --> 00:28:35,607
Speaker 4: what a bunch of experts have come out and said,

585
00:28:35,967 --> 00:28:39,047
Speaker 4: we have become so centralized that it is a tiny

586
00:28:39,207 --> 00:28:44,007
Speaker 4: portion of people who now own and operate I'm gonna

587
00:28:44,047 --> 00:28:45,207
Speaker 4: say all the world's Internet.

588
00:28:45,327 --> 00:28:46,967
Speaker 5: I'm not sure if that's right, but.

589
00:28:47,127 --> 00:28:49,767
Speaker 4: Certainly on the salt, all the salt, right, So all

590
00:28:49,767 --> 00:28:52,367
Speaker 4: the salt is owned by the same people. So then

591
00:28:52,847 --> 00:28:55,367
Speaker 4: when we go, oh, there's an issue with the salt,

592
00:28:55,407 --> 00:28:57,807
Speaker 4: it's not affecting two percent of the population.

593
00:28:57,887 --> 00:28:59,247
Speaker 5: It's affecting everyone.

594
00:28:58,927 --> 00:29:01,687
Speaker 2: Because salts in everything and everything.

595
00:29:02,207 --> 00:29:04,727
Speaker 5: Salt is in everything, and nothing's good without salt.

596
00:29:04,607 --> 00:29:06,847
Speaker 1: And sometimes you don't know what salts in. So like

597
00:29:07,407 --> 00:29:08,887
Speaker 1: we were like mum and me, and we were like,

598
00:29:09,407 --> 00:29:12,047
Speaker 1: is our whole system down? Yes, Mum and me are gone.

599
00:29:12,167 --> 00:29:13,607
Speaker 1: We didn't use salts, so we were.

600
00:29:13,527 --> 00:29:15,767
Speaker 3: Okay, this is the thing about this, and your point

601
00:29:15,807 --> 00:29:18,927
Speaker 3: is absolutely right, Jesse. Is whenever these kind of big

602
00:29:18,967 --> 00:29:22,887
Speaker 3: outages happen or a big crash happens, we're all reminded

603
00:29:22,927 --> 00:29:25,967
Speaker 3: how reliant we are obviously on digital everything, and that

604
00:29:26,047 --> 00:29:27,567
Speaker 3: for a minute freaks us out, and then we just

605
00:29:27,607 --> 00:29:30,327
Speaker 3: go back to it because like that's the world now.

606
00:29:30,247 --> 00:29:31,487
Speaker 5: Because TikTok has new video.

607
00:29:31,607 --> 00:29:35,287
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly, But also we're all entirely reliant on something

608
00:29:35,327 --> 00:29:37,527
Speaker 3: that we don't understand even a little bit. So it's

609
00:29:37,887 --> 00:29:41,527
Speaker 3: you kind of go, oh, well, that was unfortunate salt

610
00:29:41,687 --> 00:29:42,167
Speaker 3: and move on.

611
00:29:42,447 --> 00:29:45,687
Speaker 4: Yeah, And the idea that we are one button push

612
00:29:46,047 --> 00:29:50,007
Speaker 4: away from utter and total chaos is something that tech

613
00:29:50,087 --> 00:29:52,207
Speaker 4: experts have now said all right, So this was an

614
00:29:52,327 --> 00:29:56,807
Speaker 4: ominous look at what might happen if this was done

615
00:29:56,847 --> 00:29:58,927
Speaker 4: on purpose. And we've heard a lot about cyber attacks,

616
00:29:58,927 --> 00:30:01,727
Speaker 4: and obviously there's been a bunch that have happened in

617
00:30:02,047 --> 00:30:02,927
Speaker 4: the last year or so.

618
00:30:03,207 --> 00:30:04,807
Speaker 1: And the good news is that this wasn't that, and

619
00:30:04,847 --> 00:30:06,127
Speaker 1: this was a cyber attack.

620
00:30:06,287 --> 00:30:07,807
Speaker 5: This was just human ariism.

621
00:30:07,967 --> 00:30:10,487
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I saw or the Aba Seed wrote this

622
00:30:10,527 --> 00:30:15,287
Speaker 4: serves as a dress rehearsal for more sinister possibilities. For example,

623
00:30:15,327 --> 00:30:17,527
Speaker 4: I was reading about natural disasters and solo storms. I

624
00:30:17,567 --> 00:30:19,807
Speaker 4: don't know what a solar storm is, but something about satellites.

625
00:30:19,807 --> 00:30:21,247
Speaker 4: I don't know where the satellites are. I think they're

626
00:30:21,247 --> 00:30:24,127
Speaker 4: in the space. But if you go to space and

627
00:30:24,127 --> 00:30:26,567
Speaker 4: destroy a satellite, then you could get portions of the

628
00:30:26,567 --> 00:30:28,527
Speaker 4: world completely off the grinding in an instant.

629
00:30:28,607 --> 00:30:31,007
Speaker 2: This is just seven. You need to stop giving the

630
00:30:31,007 --> 00:30:31,967
Speaker 2: bad people ideas.

631
00:30:32,167 --> 00:30:34,407
Speaker 3: This is this is one of the things that's been

632
00:30:34,447 --> 00:30:36,887
Speaker 3: really interesting coming off the back of this conversation. So

633
00:30:37,127 --> 00:30:38,927
Speaker 3: for a lot of people, it was just a bad day, right.

634
00:30:38,967 --> 00:30:41,167
Speaker 3: I got a little glimpse into this and that I

635
00:30:41,407 --> 00:30:43,007
Speaker 3: was having a little mini break with my family at

636
00:30:43,007 --> 00:30:43,687
Speaker 3: the end of last week.

637
00:30:43,687 --> 00:30:44,207
Speaker 2: It was lovely.

638
00:30:44,487 --> 00:30:46,727
Speaker 3: And on Friday we went to check into a hotel

639
00:30:46,727 --> 00:30:49,287
Speaker 3: Wednesday night and Culjie and Sydney, and obviously all the

640
00:30:49,327 --> 00:30:51,247
Speaker 3: systems were down so they couldn't check us in and

641
00:30:51,247 --> 00:30:53,047
Speaker 3: they're just like, at first they had no idea, so

642
00:30:53,087 --> 00:30:54,487
Speaker 3: they're like, do you want to just sit in the

643
00:30:54,527 --> 00:30:56,407
Speaker 3: lobby and wait a few minutes. I'm sure it's all

644
00:30:56,407 --> 00:30:56,927
Speaker 3: going to come back.

645
00:30:57,087 --> 00:31:00,127
Speaker 1: Well, I call the manager of the internet exactly, and

646
00:31:00,167 --> 00:31:02,567
Speaker 1: then you know, it became apparent ten minutes, twenty minutes,

647
00:31:02,607 --> 00:31:04,807
Speaker 1: half or whatever, and so they worked around it.

648
00:31:04,967 --> 00:31:07,487
Speaker 3: But the thing is watching the staff, you know, who

649
00:31:07,487 --> 00:31:10,527
Speaker 3: are all on this hotel desk in in Sydney, like

650
00:31:10,927 --> 00:31:14,367
Speaker 3: managing everybody who was winging and trying to talk to

651
00:31:14,407 --> 00:31:16,767
Speaker 3: each other about like as your back up, yet I'm.

652
00:31:16,607 --> 00:31:18,687
Speaker 5: Still good because they don't know what the system is.

653
00:31:18,767 --> 00:31:19,927
Speaker 2: They don't nobody does.

654
00:31:19,967 --> 00:31:22,127
Speaker 3: And so to all the outlauders who were working and

655
00:31:22,167 --> 00:31:24,847
Speaker 3: having to deal with the front facing consumers who are

656
00:31:24,847 --> 00:31:26,847
Speaker 3: all going, I just want to blug it on my plane,

657
00:31:26,847 --> 00:31:27,327
Speaker 3: do whatever.

658
00:31:27,687 --> 00:31:28,847
Speaker 2: I mean, that was a lot.

659
00:31:29,087 --> 00:31:31,727
Speaker 3: But on the other serious side of it, for tour

660
00:31:31,807 --> 00:31:34,247
Speaker 3: you were just saying, Jesse, I've heard some commentary about

661
00:31:34,287 --> 00:31:37,247
Speaker 3: how Because we then cover these outages in a lot

662
00:31:37,247 --> 00:31:39,887
Speaker 3: of detail and the media amplifies it. Some people are like,

663
00:31:40,287 --> 00:31:44,087
Speaker 3: shush a little bit, because you are making it really

664
00:31:44,847 --> 00:31:49,047
Speaker 3: clear just how vulnerable we are and how copycat basically attack.

665
00:31:49,127 --> 00:31:51,127
Speaker 3: It's a how to guy because it wasn't an attack,

666
00:31:51,207 --> 00:31:52,727
Speaker 3: as we've said, so we don't all need to freak

667
00:31:52,767 --> 00:31:55,007
Speaker 3: out about that. I mean, I would imagine that the

668
00:31:55,087 --> 00:31:56,647
Speaker 3: kind of people who could bring it down are probably

669
00:31:56,647 --> 00:31:59,287
Speaker 3: pretty much aware of this already. I think they're assuming

670
00:31:59,287 --> 00:32:01,567
Speaker 3: that they are and they're not, and they're just scrolling

671
00:32:01,607 --> 00:32:03,247
Speaker 3: through TikTok and then they're going, oh, glitch.

672
00:32:03,367 --> 00:32:05,407
Speaker 1: I think they heard us talk about it on outline.

673
00:32:06,367 --> 00:32:07,807
Speaker 1: What I never thought of doing it.

674
00:32:08,167 --> 00:32:11,687
Speaker 5: They just learned what strike is. Oh, I'll get them that.

675
00:32:11,807 --> 00:32:15,407
Speaker 3: The kind of security clearance you needed to get access

676
00:32:15,447 --> 00:32:18,207
Speaker 3: to anything that could take down the world or whatever.

677
00:32:18,327 --> 00:32:21,887
Speaker 3: Launch missiles used to be a very seriously guarded thing,

678
00:32:22,207 --> 00:32:25,047
Speaker 3: and now we're just like, oh, set a virus loose

679
00:32:25,367 --> 00:32:28,687
Speaker 3: on me, assault.

680
00:32:26,647 --> 00:32:29,847
Speaker 2: And pulled the plug out. The world's on its feet.

681
00:32:29,567 --> 00:32:31,127
Speaker 5: Pull the plug out, and I don't know where my

682
00:32:31,207 --> 00:32:31,647
Speaker 5: money is.

683
00:32:31,767 --> 00:32:34,927
Speaker 1: Well, the money thing's interesting because we experienced the optors

684
00:32:34,927 --> 00:32:37,207
Speaker 1: shut down a little while ago. We got over that

685
00:32:37,247 --> 00:32:41,127
Speaker 1: pretty quickly. But this idea of cash and how reliant

686
00:32:41,167 --> 00:32:43,607
Speaker 1: we are the only reason I have cash and I

687
00:32:43,647 --> 00:32:46,447
Speaker 1: happen to have cash on Friday is because my alterationist

688
00:32:46,527 --> 00:32:48,687
Speaker 1: only takes cash. And that is literally the only time

689
00:32:48,727 --> 00:32:50,847
Speaker 1: I ever have cash is when I have to go

690
00:32:50,887 --> 00:32:53,127
Speaker 1: and pick up something from the alterations. And so I

691
00:32:53,207 --> 00:32:55,167
Speaker 1: did have cash because we were going out to dinner

692
00:32:55,167 --> 00:32:58,807
Speaker 1: on Friday night and I was like, I was like,

693
00:32:58,887 --> 00:32:59,927
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to pay for everyone.

694
00:33:00,127 --> 00:33:01,407
Speaker 5: They won't even be able to transfer.

695
00:33:01,647 --> 00:33:04,407
Speaker 1: They won't. Yeah, but I thought, maybe we won't even

696
00:33:04,487 --> 00:33:06,327
Speaker 1: be able to go, maybe the restaurant will be closed.

697
00:33:06,847 --> 00:33:09,447
Speaker 1: It wasn't, And everyone paid with card except for me.

698
00:33:09,647 --> 00:33:12,927
Speaker 1: I paid with cash, and everyone's like, what, she's a prepper.

699
00:33:13,087 --> 00:33:15,567
Speaker 1: It doesn't it make you think? It's making me a

700
00:33:15,607 --> 00:33:18,127
Speaker 1: bit preppy. Where I'm going to be like, I think

701
00:33:18,207 --> 00:33:21,767
Speaker 1: maybe a bit of cash under the mattress, nor anyone

702
00:33:21,807 --> 00:33:24,087
Speaker 1: who's listening. I will not be having cash at home.

703
00:33:24,207 --> 00:33:26,887
Speaker 1: I'll be keeping it somewhere secret that's not at home,

704
00:33:27,487 --> 00:33:28,967
Speaker 1: you know at all, or on my person.

705
00:33:29,167 --> 00:33:30,807
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what you'll have on your front door. Cash

706
00:33:30,967 --> 00:33:32,327
Speaker 4: is kept on promise, But I.

707
00:33:32,287 --> 00:33:34,367
Speaker 1: Just think maybe in theory it would be good for

708
00:33:34,407 --> 00:33:36,327
Speaker 1: some people to get some cash and have them in

709
00:33:36,367 --> 00:33:37,007
Speaker 1: some places.

710
00:33:37,167 --> 00:33:40,447
Speaker 5: It felt a bit why two K it did like

711
00:33:40,487 --> 00:33:42,207
Speaker 5: I and that didn't happen.

712
00:33:42,087 --> 00:33:43,847
Speaker 1: Because enough to remember why she came I do.

713
00:33:43,927 --> 00:33:46,247
Speaker 4: I always terrified because I was ten and ten year

714
00:33:46,287 --> 00:33:49,007
Speaker 4: olds were really across y two K. I had a

715
00:33:49,087 --> 00:33:50,887
Speaker 4: lot of brain space to take up and go, oh

716
00:33:50,927 --> 00:33:53,767
Speaker 4: my god, everything's going to fall from the sky when

717
00:33:53,807 --> 00:33:55,807
Speaker 4: it turns into two thousand. But we had a hy

718
00:33:55,847 --> 00:33:58,727
Speaker 4: two K moment, and I just think it's a reminder

719
00:33:58,807 --> 00:34:01,967
Speaker 4: that we're all plugged into something none of us understand.

720
00:34:02,127 --> 00:34:03,207
Speaker 5: We can't operate without it.

721
00:34:05,247 --> 00:34:08,007
Speaker 1: Do you want daily outloud access? Why wouldn't you? We

722
00:34:08,127 --> 00:34:12,287
Speaker 1: dropped episodes every day Tuesday and Thursday exclusively from me

723
00:34:12,367 --> 00:34:14,807
Speaker 1: of subscribers, follow the link in the show notes to

724
00:34:14,807 --> 00:34:17,247
Speaker 1: get us in your ears five days a week and

725
00:34:17,287 --> 00:34:19,767
Speaker 1: a huge thank you if you're already a subscriber.

726
00:34:24,847 --> 00:34:28,447
Speaker 4: A new documentary appears, Morgan Interview and How a Cancelation

727
00:34:28,647 --> 00:34:31,407
Speaker 4: Saved a Life. Armie Hammer is back and is debating

728
00:34:31,447 --> 00:34:35,007
Speaker 4: the semantics of the word cannibal. Before we get into it,

729
00:34:35,167 --> 00:34:39,127
Speaker 4: if that word or anything in that domain might not

730
00:34:39,247 --> 00:34:40,687
Speaker 4: be appropriate listening right now.

731
00:34:40,727 --> 00:34:42,127
Speaker 1: What if you're triggered by the word cannibal?

732
00:34:42,247 --> 00:34:44,127
Speaker 4: No, maybe you're just in the workplace, you're listening to

733
00:34:44,167 --> 00:34:45,967
Speaker 4: it out loud, and you don't want to hear the

734
00:34:46,007 --> 00:34:49,647
Speaker 4: graphic details of someone's text messages from Tipically.

735
00:34:49,447 --> 00:34:51,287
Speaker 1: He didn't actually eat anyone.

736
00:34:51,207 --> 00:34:52,607
Speaker 5: But the words are pretty confronting.

737
00:34:52,767 --> 00:34:54,047
Speaker 1: Holly thinks maybe he did.

738
00:34:54,087 --> 00:34:55,807
Speaker 4: Some of the words are pretty confronting. So I'm giving

739
00:34:55,847 --> 00:34:57,047
Speaker 4: you a heads up.

740
00:34:57,607 --> 00:34:58,487
Speaker 5: Are you a cannibal?

741
00:34:58,767 --> 00:34:58,807
Speaker 6: No?

742
00:34:59,327 --> 00:35:00,887
Speaker 7: You know what you have to do to be a cannibal.

743
00:35:00,927 --> 00:35:02,647
Speaker 7: You have to have actually eaten someone.

744
00:35:03,167 --> 00:35:05,767
Speaker 1: Have you ever eaten any human flesh? No? What do

745
00:35:05,807 --> 00:35:09,567
Speaker 1: you feel that a large swathe of the public think

746
00:35:09,727 --> 00:35:11,167
Speaker 1: Armie Hammer is accounibal?

747
00:35:11,527 --> 00:35:13,327
Speaker 7: If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.

748
00:35:14,007 --> 00:35:15,927
Speaker 1: But the reason they would believe is because you said it.

749
00:35:16,127 --> 00:35:18,287
Speaker 7: Sure, I'm one hundred percent of cannon and I think

750
00:35:18,287 --> 00:35:23,287
Speaker 7: a lot of these things, these text messages. So it's this.

751
00:35:23,287 --> 00:35:29,607
Speaker 7: This was a very intense affair, very sexually charged between

752
00:35:29,727 --> 00:35:35,967
Speaker 7: two people with very similar proclivities and kinks, and any

753
00:35:36,047 --> 00:35:39,287
Speaker 7: of those conversations that we had inside of that relationship.

754
00:35:39,287 --> 00:35:42,527
Speaker 7: When you take them outside of that context and put

755
00:35:42,607 --> 00:35:44,927
Speaker 7: them into broad daylight. Doesn't look so good.

756
00:35:45,127 --> 00:35:47,527
Speaker 4: Today, we want to talk about the Piers Morgan interview

757
00:35:47,527 --> 00:35:50,847
Speaker 4: that broadcast on YouTube on Friday, which is Hammer's first

758
00:35:50,887 --> 00:35:54,767
Speaker 4: televised interview in three years. Armie Hammer is thirty seven

759
00:35:54,847 --> 00:35:57,927
Speaker 4: years old, and in twenty twenty one, multiple women came

760
00:35:57,967 --> 00:36:00,687
Speaker 4: forward claiming the actor, who you might know from the

761
00:36:00,687 --> 00:36:01,807
Speaker 4: social network.

762
00:36:01,487 --> 00:36:04,087
Speaker 1: He played the Winklevoss tweet as he did and he

763
00:36:04,207 --> 00:36:05,167
Speaker 1: was the only thing I.

764
00:36:05,127 --> 00:36:06,687
Speaker 4: Know him from Call Me by Your Name one of

765
00:36:06,687 --> 00:36:10,527
Speaker 4: the best movies ever. These women claimed that he'd abuse them.

766
00:36:10,727 --> 00:36:14,407
Speaker 4: It began when a woman started leaking Instagram direct messages

767
00:36:14,447 --> 00:36:17,327
Speaker 4: sent from a man she said was Armie Hammer. Some

768
00:36:17,367 --> 00:36:20,327
Speaker 4: of the messages read, I am one hundred percent a cannibal.

769
00:36:20,487 --> 00:36:22,247
Speaker 4: I want to eat you, I need your blood, I

770
00:36:22,327 --> 00:36:25,447
Speaker 4: crave it. He expressed rape fantasies. He said he wanted

771
00:36:25,487 --> 00:36:27,927
Speaker 4: women to be his slaves. He told another woman he

772
00:36:28,007 --> 00:36:30,487
Speaker 4: had a desire to cook and eat one of her ribs.

773
00:36:30,967 --> 00:36:35,647
Speaker 4: The text messages are extensive and confronting. One woman claimed

774
00:36:35,647 --> 00:36:37,687
Speaker 4: she had been in a relationship with Hammer and he

775
00:36:37,727 --> 00:36:41,407
Speaker 4: subjected her to emotional abuse. Another said he had branded

776
00:36:41,407 --> 00:36:44,047
Speaker 4: her she had a photo of it, left her covered

777
00:36:44,047 --> 00:36:47,127
Speaker 4: in bruises, and talked about consuming her. There was also

778
00:36:47,167 --> 00:36:50,327
Speaker 4: an allegation of rape by a woman named Effie. This

779
00:36:50,407 --> 00:36:54,287
Speaker 4: became the basis for the LAPD sexual assault investigation into Hammer,

780
00:36:54,607 --> 00:36:59,847
Speaker 4: which was ultimately dropped due to insufficient evidence. So on Friday,

781
00:36:59,927 --> 00:37:03,207
Speaker 4: Hammer sits down with Morgan. Here are the headlines. Obviously,

782
00:37:03,247 --> 00:37:05,327
Speaker 4: what you heard was significant about whether or not he

783
00:37:05,327 --> 00:37:07,287
Speaker 4: thinks he's a cannibal. That is a no from him.

784
00:37:07,607 --> 00:37:08,567
Speaker 4: He spent the five days.

785
00:37:08,727 --> 00:37:10,527
Speaker 1: I do think he has a point. If you don't

786
00:37:10,607 --> 00:37:12,807
Speaker 1: actually aid a person, are you accountable?

787
00:37:13,367 --> 00:37:16,767
Speaker 4: And I suppose that was at the time when a

788
00:37:16,807 --> 00:37:19,207
Speaker 4: celebrity says that that's the headline, but it was the

789
00:37:19,247 --> 00:37:20,967
Speaker 4: way in from a much larger story.

790
00:37:21,327 --> 00:37:21,807
Speaker 1: True.

791
00:37:21,847 --> 00:37:23,687
Speaker 4: He spent the first ten minutes or so of the

792
00:37:23,687 --> 00:37:26,367
Speaker 4: interview talking about his mental health, the impact of fame

793
00:37:26,407 --> 00:37:28,887
Speaker 4: and success on his life, and how addiction made him

794
00:37:28,887 --> 00:37:31,807
Speaker 4: behave in ways he's not proud of. He acknowledges that

795
00:37:31,887 --> 00:37:34,287
Speaker 4: Robert Downey Jr. Helped him but didn't pay for his

796
00:37:34,367 --> 00:37:37,687
Speaker 4: rehab as was reported. And there was also this which

797
00:37:37,687 --> 00:37:39,207
Speaker 4: he said about his friendships.

798
00:37:39,527 --> 00:37:42,727
Speaker 7: People are sending me private emails saying, I know this

799
00:37:42,847 --> 00:37:45,367
Speaker 7: isn't you, Like this is crazy who this guy? Like

800
00:37:45,567 --> 00:37:47,767
Speaker 7: I've known you for years? This guy who they're talking about,

801
00:37:47,847 --> 00:37:49,807
Speaker 7: Like it's just not you. And I was like, why

802
00:37:49,847 --> 00:37:53,407
Speaker 7: are you sending me emails say something about this? Like

803
00:37:53,567 --> 00:37:56,287
Speaker 7: why is everyone saying to me directly like we know

804
00:37:56,367 --> 00:38:00,327
Speaker 7: this isn't real, say it publicly, like help me? And

805
00:38:00,407 --> 00:38:02,327
Speaker 7: Clark looked at me and he said, you know, what

806
00:38:02,407 --> 00:38:05,127
Speaker 7: kind of friend are you? You set your house on

807
00:38:05,367 --> 00:38:08,847
Speaker 7: fire and your house is burning to the ground, and

808
00:38:08,887 --> 00:38:11,767
Speaker 7: now what you want your friends to run into a

809
00:38:11,807 --> 00:38:13,887
Speaker 7: burning house with you? What happens to your friends when

810
00:38:13,887 --> 00:38:16,287
Speaker 7: they run into a burning house? And I said they

811
00:38:16,287 --> 00:38:18,247
Speaker 7: would get burned. He said, do you want your friends

812
00:38:18,247 --> 00:38:22,327
Speaker 7: to get burned? I said no. He said, if you

813
00:38:22,407 --> 00:38:25,047
Speaker 7: were a good friend, what would you want for your friends?

814
00:38:25,567 --> 00:38:27,687
Speaker 7: And I said I would want my friends to stay

815
00:38:27,687 --> 00:38:29,287
Speaker 7: as far away from the fire as possible.

816
00:38:29,487 --> 00:38:33,207
Speaker 4: It's also worth noting that this appearance follows two other

817
00:38:33,247 --> 00:38:36,407
Speaker 4: appearances on podcasts, one where he said there were things

818
00:38:36,407 --> 00:38:38,287
Speaker 4: that people were saying about me that just felt so

819
00:38:38,327 --> 00:38:40,567
Speaker 4: outlandish that I was a cannibal. He said during a

820
00:38:40,647 --> 00:38:43,247
Speaker 4: podcast appearance, Now I'm able to sort of look at

821
00:38:43,287 --> 00:38:45,647
Speaker 4: it with a sense of distance and perspective and be like,

822
00:38:45,927 --> 00:38:50,727
Speaker 4: that's hilarious. People called me a cannibal and everyone believed them.

823
00:38:51,287 --> 00:38:52,847
Speaker 5: Is this? It is this?

824
00:38:54,447 --> 00:38:57,207
Speaker 3: I have issues with this way he's presenting this, This

825
00:38:57,327 --> 00:38:57,847
Speaker 3: whole thing.

826
00:38:58,407 --> 00:39:01,607
Speaker 5: Is the moment that Armie hammer comes back.

827
00:39:01,567 --> 00:39:03,647
Speaker 1: Well, I think he's going to be on celebrity ESAs

828
00:39:03,727 --> 00:39:05,807
Speaker 1: without a shadow of a doubt and possibly dancing with

829
00:39:05,847 --> 00:39:06,487
Speaker 1: the stars.

830
00:39:06,607 --> 00:39:07,527
Speaker 2: I really doubt it.

831
00:39:07,607 --> 00:39:10,047
Speaker 3: I want to know me as our ex but strategist.

832
00:39:10,887 --> 00:39:15,047
Speaker 3: Why Piers Morgan not exactly the most credible, like it's

833
00:39:15,047 --> 00:39:17,567
Speaker 3: one of the biggest it's definitely one of the biggest places.

834
00:39:17,567 --> 00:39:20,567
Speaker 3: But Piers Morgan will give a mic to anyone. Famously, recently,

835
00:39:20,687 --> 00:39:22,807
Speaker 3: the woman who was alleged to have been the Baby

836
00:39:22,847 --> 00:39:23,727
Speaker 3: Reindeer stalker.

837
00:39:24,167 --> 00:39:26,127
Speaker 5: He'll last month he did Kevin Spacey.

838
00:39:26,247 --> 00:39:30,327
Speaker 3: Yes, it's like a lot of possibly more mainstream media outlets,

839
00:39:30,367 --> 00:39:32,367
Speaker 3: Mike go Maybe we don't want to give that person

840
00:39:32,447 --> 00:39:34,807
Speaker 3: any amplification. So why Piers Morgan.

841
00:39:34,967 --> 00:39:36,727
Speaker 1: I actually don't think anyone would have said no to

842
00:39:36,727 --> 00:39:39,927
Speaker 1: an interview with Armie Hammy really no, absolutely not, or

843
00:39:40,487 --> 00:39:44,447
Speaker 1: the woman from Baby Reindeer or Kevin Spacey. I think that.

844
00:39:45,367 --> 00:39:47,967
Speaker 1: I think that just because you interview someone doesn't mean

845
00:39:48,007 --> 00:39:49,927
Speaker 1: you're endorsing them or doesn't mean that you don't get

846
00:39:50,007 --> 00:39:52,487
Speaker 1: to ask them really hard questions. I think all of

847
00:39:52,527 --> 00:39:55,647
Speaker 1: those three interviews are massive, scoots and exclusive. So why

848
00:39:55,727 --> 00:39:58,767
Speaker 1: did they choose Piers Morgan Because, first of all, Piers

849
00:39:58,807 --> 00:40:01,367
Speaker 1: Morgan now has become the sort of go to place

850
00:40:01,447 --> 00:40:05,647
Speaker 1: for pariahs where it sort of runs in full there's

851
00:40:05,647 --> 00:40:08,047
Speaker 1: not a lot of editorializing, Like Piers Morgan doesn't give

852
00:40:08,087 --> 00:40:12,167
Speaker 1: them a free he challenges them, but it's an interview

853
00:40:12,167 --> 00:40:14,567
Speaker 1: that runs really long, so they get a lot of

854
00:40:14,567 --> 00:40:18,087
Speaker 1: opportunity to talk and things aren't just like chopped up

855
00:40:18,487 --> 00:40:21,207
Speaker 1: into grabs like they would be in a sixty minute

856
00:40:21,487 --> 00:40:23,807
Speaker 1: So you're on a sixty minutes you might give two

857
00:40:23,927 --> 00:40:27,567
Speaker 1: two hour interviews, but then they only use like thirty

858
00:40:27,567 --> 00:40:29,687
Speaker 1: seconds of you saying the most explosive thing.

859
00:40:30,007 --> 00:40:30,767
Speaker 2: So there's that.

860
00:40:30,847 --> 00:40:32,647
Speaker 1: Then there's the fact that it is on the internet.

861
00:40:32,727 --> 00:40:35,007
Speaker 1: It's on YouTube. He's Morgan's shows, so it means that

862
00:40:35,567 --> 00:40:38,047
Speaker 1: everybody all over the world can watch it for free

863
00:40:38,287 --> 00:40:41,927
Speaker 1: straight away. So it's almost the interview equivalent of posting

864
00:40:41,967 --> 00:40:45,807
Speaker 1: on social media. It's completely globally accessible, so it's the

865
00:40:45,847 --> 00:40:48,887
Speaker 1: way to reach the most amount of people in the

866
00:40:48,927 --> 00:40:52,687
Speaker 1: most effective short amount of time. And what's interesting about

867
00:40:52,727 --> 00:40:55,767
Speaker 1: it is that it's also a conversational style. So the

868
00:40:55,807 --> 00:40:59,047
Speaker 1: way the sets lit, the format of the interview, which

869
00:40:59,087 --> 00:41:01,647
Speaker 1: is just chatting, there's no like overlay footage in the

870
00:41:01,687 --> 00:41:05,087
Speaker 1: way that say sixty minutes would do. It feels very unthreatening.

871
00:41:05,567 --> 00:41:07,807
Speaker 1: You look at it and straight away you know your

872
00:41:07,847 --> 00:41:11,007
Speaker 1: shorthand your thin slice is Oh, he seems like a

873
00:41:11,087 --> 00:41:12,007
Speaker 1: nice enough guy.

874
00:41:12,727 --> 00:41:15,527
Speaker 3: And then he remember then you remember some of the

875
00:41:15,567 --> 00:41:18,927
Speaker 3: things that he is alleged to have done. Does Piers

876
00:41:18,967 --> 00:41:21,607
Speaker 3: Morgan also have the home for pariahs? Perhaps because here's

877
00:41:21,647 --> 00:41:24,847
Speaker 3: a pariah himself, just a little bit from the mainstream

878
00:41:24,887 --> 00:41:27,447
Speaker 3: media world, so he has a bit of a sympathy

879
00:41:27,487 --> 00:41:27,727
Speaker 3: for that.

880
00:41:27,927 --> 00:41:32,127
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And he's definitely made a name for himself as

881
00:41:32,127 --> 00:41:36,647
Speaker 1: being the anti cancelation person and has resisted being canceled himself.

882
00:41:36,727 --> 00:41:39,727
Speaker 1: So this idea of what do you do if you're

883
00:41:39,727 --> 00:41:43,527
Speaker 1: canceled to that extent, well, the only thing that you

884
00:41:43,527 --> 00:41:47,447
Speaker 1: can do, we're starting to see now is stare down

885
00:41:47,487 --> 00:41:50,247
Speaker 1: the barrel of it and confront it. And robs are

886
00:41:50,247 --> 00:41:51,807
Speaker 1: a period of time after a period.

887
00:41:51,927 --> 00:41:53,487
Speaker 3: But here's the thing. I want to push back on

888
00:41:53,527 --> 00:41:55,487
Speaker 3: the idea that anyone would be happy to have Armi

889
00:41:55,567 --> 00:41:58,487
Speaker 3: Hammer on their show. That's like would anybody be happy

890
00:41:58,527 --> 00:41:59,847
Speaker 3: to have p Diddy on their show?

891
00:41:59,927 --> 00:42:00,407
Speaker 2: Right now?

892
00:42:00,487 --> 00:42:03,527
Speaker 3: Like, I think that giving a platform and I, you know,

893
00:42:03,607 --> 00:42:07,327
Speaker 3: to somebody who has these serious charges, I don't know

894
00:42:07,367 --> 00:42:09,527
Speaker 3: they're not legal charges, although they could have turned out

895
00:42:09,567 --> 00:42:13,327
Speaker 3: to be legal charges. Again them Armie Hammer giving them

896
00:42:13,367 --> 00:42:16,287
Speaker 3: the platform and the mic to state their case.

897
00:42:16,447 --> 00:42:18,607
Speaker 1: But is that been hang on a second hole, What

898
00:42:18,647 --> 00:42:21,087
Speaker 1: do you think journalism is? Is that what journalism is

899
00:42:21,087 --> 00:42:23,687
Speaker 1: is interviewing someone giving them a platform or is it

900
00:42:23,727 --> 00:42:24,887
Speaker 1: holding them to account?

901
00:42:25,327 --> 00:42:27,367
Speaker 3: But I don't think in this case it is because

902
00:42:27,407 --> 00:42:29,927
Speaker 3: it is very much part of his comeback strategy, right like,

903
00:42:30,007 --> 00:42:33,087
Speaker 3: let's do some softball, let's do Piers Morgan. You're right,

904
00:42:33,127 --> 00:42:35,367
Speaker 3: he does ask the hard questions, but it's not a

905
00:42:35,407 --> 00:42:38,567
Speaker 3: woman because the thing that you forget about listening to

906
00:42:38,647 --> 00:42:40,647
Speaker 3: him and listen to him. Then he talks about how

907
00:42:41,047 --> 00:42:43,647
Speaker 3: a lot of this was consensual. He talks about cheating

908
00:42:43,687 --> 00:42:44,807
Speaker 3: on his wife, but that he was in a very

909
00:42:44,807 --> 00:42:46,687
Speaker 3: bad place with his mental health and his addiction, which

910
00:42:46,727 --> 00:42:49,047
Speaker 3: is all I'm sure is true. But then you pop

911
00:42:49,087 --> 00:42:52,647
Speaker 3: over to X and you see the woman who accused

912
00:42:52,727 --> 00:42:56,647
Speaker 3: him of rape reposting the details of the text messages

913
00:42:56,687 --> 00:42:59,487
Speaker 3: and restating her claims that he raped her, and talking

914
00:42:59,487 --> 00:43:01,967
Speaker 3: about the trauma that she has, and talking about the

915
00:43:02,247 --> 00:43:06,367
Speaker 3: really much too disturbing and disgusting tweets to be either

916
00:43:06,407 --> 00:43:08,607
Speaker 3: read out here or talked about by Piers Morgan on there,

917
00:43:08,607 --> 00:43:11,887
Speaker 3: And you're remind did that this isn't a victimless situation,

918
00:43:12,127 --> 00:43:14,047
Speaker 3: right if we believe it to be true, and he

919
00:43:14,087 --> 00:43:16,647
Speaker 3: has never denied it. He denies eating people, but to

920
00:43:16,647 --> 00:43:20,287
Speaker 3: be fair, that's always been the media's beat up and

921
00:43:20,407 --> 00:43:22,567
Speaker 3: fun thing to say that he's a cannibal. The much

922
00:43:22,607 --> 00:43:24,887
Speaker 3: bigger piece here is that he's been accused of sexual

923
00:43:24,887 --> 00:43:27,367
Speaker 3: assault and abusing numerous young women.

924
00:43:28,047 --> 00:43:29,567
Speaker 2: I can't see.

925
00:43:29,367 --> 00:43:32,327
Speaker 3: It as just a oh cute Hollywood comeback story. I

926
00:43:32,367 --> 00:43:35,767
Speaker 3: don't because the reason people get so upset and defensive about.

927
00:43:35,527 --> 00:43:38,087
Speaker 2: It is for a very very very.

928
00:43:37,967 --> 00:43:41,927
Speaker 3: Long time men like Armie Hammer, who, let's be clear,

929
00:43:42,047 --> 00:43:44,687
Speaker 3: the reason his book there's a documentary about his family

930
00:43:44,807 --> 00:43:47,647
Speaker 3: at the moment on streaming is because he comes from

931
00:43:47,687 --> 00:43:50,687
Speaker 3: a long line of very wealthy very powerful people, and

932
00:43:50,727 --> 00:43:52,527
Speaker 3: a lot of people in Hollywood had issues with him

933
00:43:52,567 --> 00:43:54,527
Speaker 3: for a long time. They were saying, they're trying to

934
00:43:54,567 --> 00:43:56,447
Speaker 3: make him a star. They're trying to make us make

935
00:43:56,527 --> 00:43:59,527
Speaker 3: him a star because he has all this serious backing.

936
00:43:59,887 --> 00:44:03,047
Speaker 2: But he there's something about him, right, Jesse.

937
00:44:03,167 --> 00:44:06,487
Speaker 1: I didn't watch the whole interview. What was his defense

938
00:44:06,687 --> 00:44:11,207
Speaker 1: or his explanation or his interview about all these things

939
00:44:11,287 --> 00:44:13,247
Speaker 1: he's been accused of. Did he admit them, did he

940
00:44:13,327 --> 00:44:13,887
Speaker 1: deny them?

941
00:44:14,167 --> 00:44:17,567
Speaker 4: There were particular points where it just got very much

942
00:44:17,567 --> 00:44:22,047
Speaker 4: into semantics. So there's one allegation, and it's interesting what

943
00:44:22,087 --> 00:44:25,207
Speaker 4: Piers Morgan doubles down on and what he doesn't, I suppose,

944
00:44:25,287 --> 00:44:28,527
Speaker 4: But one was the branding question. Peers Morgan was like,

945
00:44:28,607 --> 00:44:31,607
Speaker 4: I was quite surprised by that that you would brand someone,

946
00:44:31,647 --> 00:44:33,887
Speaker 4: and he said, oh, it's like, you know, lovers getting

947
00:44:33,887 --> 00:44:36,847
Speaker 4: a tattoo. And the way that he tried to describe

948
00:44:36,847 --> 00:44:39,247
Speaker 4: it was, I just used the tip of a knife

949
00:44:39,527 --> 00:44:42,927
Speaker 4: and wrote a on her and there wasn't even any

950
00:44:42,967 --> 00:44:45,727
Speaker 4: blood and blah blah blah, and it was between two

951
00:44:45,727 --> 00:44:47,767
Speaker 4: consensual adults and we decided on it.

952
00:44:47,967 --> 00:44:49,407
Speaker 1: So did he say that the whole thing was in

953
00:44:49,447 --> 00:44:53,047
Speaker 1: the context of BDSM relationships.

954
00:44:52,367 --> 00:44:54,447
Speaker 5: Yes, and consent essentially.

955
00:44:54,607 --> 00:44:58,047
Speaker 3: And he has prud used some alcoholism, yes, as he

956
00:44:58,087 --> 00:44:59,607
Speaker 3: was in the throes of addiction.

957
00:44:59,727 --> 00:45:02,767
Speaker 4: And that some of those messages were sent when he

958
00:45:02,927 --> 00:45:05,527
Speaker 4: was high. He has also told the story, and he

959
00:45:05,527 --> 00:45:09,247
Speaker 4: has told this story before about considering ending at all,

960
00:45:09,847 --> 00:45:12,887
Speaker 4: and he got very emotional. He spoke about his children

961
00:45:12,927 --> 00:45:15,607
Speaker 4: and the experience of and you can't watch this and

962
00:45:15,647 --> 00:45:19,327
Speaker 4: not feel something. When he's talking about visitation with his daughter.

963
00:45:19,327 --> 00:45:22,087
Speaker 4: He wasn't allowed to be alone with her because of

964
00:45:22,127 --> 00:45:24,647
Speaker 4: a sexual assault allegation, and she needed to go to

965
00:45:24,647 --> 00:45:27,127
Speaker 4: the bathroom and he wasn't allowed to take his own

966
00:45:27,167 --> 00:45:28,007
Speaker 4: daughter to the bathroom.

967
00:45:28,567 --> 00:45:30,967
Speaker 5: So he's positioned and this is what's.

968
00:45:30,767 --> 00:45:32,407
Speaker 2: Really know if that's the worst thing in the world.

969
00:45:32,447 --> 00:45:35,887
Speaker 4: But yeah, but you see a man crying because he

970
00:45:35,927 --> 00:45:38,247
Speaker 4: knows he's let down his children, right, And that's what.

971
00:45:38,167 --> 00:45:40,167
Speaker 5: An interview with crime because he got caught.

972
00:45:40,687 --> 00:45:44,087
Speaker 4: But I think, and this is the thing, is that

973
00:45:44,647 --> 00:45:48,487
Speaker 4: whatever Army Hammad did, that doesn't take away the fact

974
00:45:49,007 --> 00:45:52,287
Speaker 4: that he's a human being who's probably had a shitty

975
00:45:52,287 --> 00:45:54,767
Speaker 4: few years, right, And he's not been convicted of a crime,

976
00:45:54,807 --> 00:45:57,087
Speaker 4: and he's not being convicted of a crime. So this

977
00:45:57,127 --> 00:45:59,567
Speaker 4: is where I get really stuck. I get stuck on

978
00:45:59,607 --> 00:46:04,727
Speaker 4: this ethically and morally, and I can't quite resolve it is.

979
00:46:05,367 --> 00:46:10,367
Speaker 4: I have started watching House of Hammer, and those allegations

980
00:46:10,407 --> 00:46:12,727
Speaker 4: are horrifying, and they fit the profile, and it's it's

981
00:46:12,807 --> 00:46:14,687
Speaker 4: important to note as well, this isn't one woman. This

982
00:46:14,847 --> 00:46:18,767
Speaker 4: is multiple women echoing each other's stories, saying he uses

983
00:46:18,807 --> 00:46:19,927
Speaker 4: the same language.

984
00:46:20,167 --> 00:46:20,687
Speaker 2: A few years.

985
00:46:20,687 --> 00:46:25,887
Speaker 4: They've had years telling these stories that are really horrifying

986
00:46:25,887 --> 00:46:28,567
Speaker 4: about some of the stuff he did to them. Obviously

987
00:46:28,607 --> 00:46:31,727
Speaker 4: they say that there wasn't enough evidence to prosecute him.

988
00:46:32,207 --> 00:46:36,127
Speaker 4: But what do we want Armie Hammer to do when

989
00:46:36,127 --> 00:46:40,327
Speaker 4: we hear the story about him considering ending his life?

990
00:46:40,447 --> 00:46:43,647
Speaker 4: I mean, that's the cancel culture, which is imperfect, and

991
00:46:43,767 --> 00:46:45,447
Speaker 4: you know, I'm not sure that's exactly what it is.

992
00:46:45,527 --> 00:46:49,047
Speaker 4: But do we want people to die? No, we don't

993
00:46:49,047 --> 00:46:51,687
Speaker 4: want people to die. Do we think that they have

994
00:46:51,807 --> 00:46:54,527
Speaker 4: a ride of reply? If these people can go on

995
00:46:54,567 --> 00:46:57,167
Speaker 4: the record and talk about their messages? And I'm asking that,

996
00:46:57,207 --> 00:46:59,967
Speaker 4: I genuinely don't know what the answer is. I don't

997
00:47:00,007 --> 00:47:02,247
Speaker 4: know what the culture should do with Armie Hammer.

998
00:47:02,407 --> 00:47:04,767
Speaker 3: He's trying to come back, right, So what he's doing

999
00:47:04,807 --> 00:47:07,287
Speaker 3: is he's testing the waters. And I read some analysis

1000
00:47:07,287 --> 00:47:09,367
Speaker 3: of this from the Hollywood prs who said exactly this.

1001
00:47:09,447 --> 00:47:12,647
Speaker 3: They're saying, he's trying to stage a soft comeback. So

1002
00:47:12,927 --> 00:47:15,127
Speaker 3: let's just test. Let's just see, you know, I'll do

1003
00:47:15,167 --> 00:47:17,847
Speaker 3: a couple of podcasts. I'll do Peers Morgan, We'll see

1004
00:47:17,887 --> 00:47:20,487
Speaker 3: if there's a way back. Now. I agree with you

1005
00:47:20,567 --> 00:47:22,727
Speaker 3: Jesse that it's not that you want people who have

1006
00:47:22,927 --> 00:47:25,647
Speaker 3: sort of fallen from grace in this way or whatever

1007
00:47:25,647 --> 00:47:29,607
Speaker 3: we want to call it, to disappear off the planet entirely.

1008
00:47:30,047 --> 00:47:33,327
Speaker 3: But they're also not owed our money to support their

1009
00:47:33,367 --> 00:47:35,287
Speaker 3: careers if they want to go back to being a

1010
00:47:35,287 --> 00:47:38,487
Speaker 3: movie star. You know, I owe Armi Hammer nothing and not.

1011
00:47:38,567 --> 00:47:39,327
Speaker 2: Does anyone else.

1012
00:47:39,407 --> 00:47:42,087
Speaker 3: So well, remember a while ago when it was rumored

1013
00:47:42,127 --> 00:47:44,367
Speaker 3: or clearly stated that he was working at a resort

1014
00:47:44,407 --> 00:47:46,247
Speaker 3: in the Bahamas, and everybody got a lot of laughs

1015
00:47:46,247 --> 00:47:47,087
Speaker 3: out of that, and they.

1016
00:47:46,967 --> 00:47:47,887
Speaker 2: Were all like, ha ha ha.

1017
00:47:48,047 --> 00:47:50,487
Speaker 3: Look at him now organizing golf days, and we were

1018
00:47:50,527 --> 00:47:52,887
Speaker 3: all saying, well, you know, the man's got to work.

1019
00:47:53,007 --> 00:47:55,287
Speaker 3: There are many other paths to redemption that do not

1020
00:47:55,447 --> 00:47:59,487
Speaker 3: involve Peers Morgan high profile interviews him getting back into

1021
00:47:59,487 --> 00:48:03,007
Speaker 3: Hollywood him getting jobs, because the thing is the issue

1022
00:48:03,047 --> 00:48:05,967
Speaker 3: for people like Armie Hammer, whether we call this a

1023
00:48:06,047 --> 00:48:09,087
Speaker 3: sexual assault charge when there aren't actually legal charges on

1024
00:48:09,767 --> 00:48:14,407
Speaker 3: but so a very generous terms would be a sex scandal. Yeah, right,

1025
00:48:14,927 --> 00:48:17,487
Speaker 3: For high profile people who are part of a sex scandal,

1026
00:48:17,607 --> 00:48:22,927
Speaker 3: very distasteful, very violent seeming adultery addiction, whether or not

1027
00:48:22,927 --> 00:48:24,607
Speaker 3: that's going to ruin their career or not kind of

1028
00:48:24,607 --> 00:48:26,807
Speaker 3: depends who they were pretending to be in the first place.

1029
00:48:27,167 --> 00:48:29,487
Speaker 3: What's the gap between who they've been exposed to be

1030
00:48:29,567 --> 00:48:31,687
Speaker 3: and who we were supposed to believe they were. And

1031
00:48:31,727 --> 00:48:34,887
Speaker 3: it's interesting in Armie Hammer's case because although a lot

1032
00:48:34,927 --> 00:48:36,647
Speaker 3: of people in the industry say that they were trying

1033
00:48:36,647 --> 00:48:38,487
Speaker 3: to make him happen as a romantic leading man for

1034
00:48:38,527 --> 00:48:41,407
Speaker 3: a really long time, his big roles were never actually

1035
00:48:41,447 --> 00:48:43,647
Speaker 3: really that, even in Death on the Nile, which he

1036
00:48:43,727 --> 00:48:46,287
Speaker 3: had a massive starring role in but came out after this,

1037
00:48:46,367 --> 00:48:48,607
Speaker 3: so they raised him from the trailer and the promo.

1038
00:48:48,687 --> 00:48:50,767
Speaker 2: But I've seen that movie and he's all the way

1039
00:48:50,767 --> 00:48:51,487
Speaker 2: through is good.

1040
00:48:51,527 --> 00:48:54,287
Speaker 3: He's great, but also in that he also plays a

1041
00:48:54,327 --> 00:48:56,647
Speaker 3: sort of romantic hero but with a dark edge. He's

1042
00:48:56,647 --> 00:48:59,967
Speaker 3: always got those guys, because clearly that's sort of what

1043
00:49:00,007 --> 00:49:04,247
Speaker 3: people have always sensed about him, but him being so

1044
00:49:04,367 --> 00:49:07,687
Speaker 3: indignant about you don't understand that I'm just a nice

1045
00:49:07,727 --> 00:49:10,607
Speaker 3: family man who off the wagon for a little bit.

1046
00:49:11,007 --> 00:49:12,927
Speaker 3: And then you've got this cohort of young women who

1047
00:49:12,927 --> 00:49:17,047
Speaker 3: have no power at all saying, actually, this ruined my life.

1048
00:49:17,127 --> 00:49:19,767
Speaker 3: I'm still dealing with the trauma from it. They don't

1049
00:49:19,767 --> 00:49:21,967
Speaker 3: need to see him back on movie posters, and if

1050
00:49:22,007 --> 00:49:24,007
Speaker 3: I'm forced to choose a side there, I don't have

1051
00:49:24,247 --> 00:49:27,127
Speaker 3: any ambiguity about where my side is. My side is

1052
00:49:27,127 --> 00:49:28,687
Speaker 3: with those women rather than with him.

1053
00:49:28,687 --> 00:49:29,647
Speaker 2: I don't wish him ill.

1054
00:49:29,887 --> 00:49:32,087
Speaker 3: I don't wish him to go away, but just come

1055
00:49:32,087 --> 00:49:34,127
Speaker 3: and get a real job and stop popping up on

1056
00:49:34,167 --> 00:49:36,367
Speaker 3: every screen. I look at planning your comeback.

1057
00:49:36,567 --> 00:49:39,127
Speaker 1: I think the market will decide, and you're right, he's

1058
00:49:39,167 --> 00:49:43,567
Speaker 1: not owed anything by anyone. And if this is dipping

1059
00:49:43,567 --> 00:49:46,767
Speaker 1: his toe in the water, I mean Hollywood is mercenary

1060
00:49:46,927 --> 00:49:49,967
Speaker 1: in that no one wants to take a risk if

1061
00:49:50,007 --> 00:49:52,407
Speaker 1: they think there will be a backlash at the box

1062
00:49:52,447 --> 00:49:55,207
Speaker 1: office or streaming or wherever it is. So if people

1063
00:49:55,247 --> 00:49:57,847
Speaker 1: don't believe that he can come back in a way,

1064
00:49:57,887 --> 00:50:02,047
Speaker 1: that's commercially viable and that an audience will forgive or

1065
00:50:02,207 --> 00:50:05,807
Speaker 1: be able to overlook. Then it won't work like no

1066
00:50:05,847 --> 00:50:07,807
Speaker 1: matter how much he wants to come back, just because

1067
00:50:07,807 --> 00:50:10,247
Speaker 1: you want to come back doesn't mean you're allowed back.

1068
00:50:10,447 --> 00:50:12,967
Speaker 4: Hammer said, you could get the likes of me and

1069
00:50:13,047 --> 00:50:15,407
Speaker 4: Kevin Spacey very cheap right now because we can't get

1070
00:50:15,407 --> 00:50:18,207
Speaker 4: a job. And I was like, yeah, that's a worry.

1071
00:50:18,327 --> 00:50:20,767
Speaker 4: But you're going to have this tier of canceled men

1072
00:50:21,087 --> 00:50:23,207
Speaker 4: that are, regardless of what you think of what they did.

1073
00:50:23,087 --> 00:50:25,527
Speaker 5: Really good actor, really good actors that you could get

1074
00:50:26,527 --> 00:50:28,247
Speaker 5: really good discount.

1075
00:50:27,727 --> 00:50:29,287
Speaker 2: Pass are you going to get your money back?

1076
00:50:29,327 --> 00:50:31,487
Speaker 3: And that's the interesting thing we've talked before on here

1077
00:50:31,527 --> 00:50:34,447
Speaker 3: about Luis c k for example, the comedian who you know,

1078
00:50:34,687 --> 00:50:38,047
Speaker 3: sex scandal again using that very generous term, sort of

1079
00:50:38,127 --> 00:50:40,487
Speaker 3: ended his mainstream career, but he makes a very good

1080
00:50:40,527 --> 00:50:44,607
Speaker 3: living as a sort of professional canceled comedian who he

1081
00:50:44,647 --> 00:50:46,887
Speaker 3: sells his own tickets through his own channels, He does

1082
00:50:46,927 --> 00:50:49,367
Speaker 3: all his own marketing, and that's working out really.

1083
00:50:49,207 --> 00:50:49,767
Speaker 2: Well for him.

1084
00:50:49,967 --> 00:50:53,647
Speaker 3: A bit harder for the movie stars because they need

1085
00:50:53,687 --> 00:50:57,167
Speaker 3: to be employed by somebody, and as Mia says, by radio.

1086
00:50:57,447 --> 00:50:59,167
Speaker 3: And the thing is it didn't used to be like that.

1087
00:50:59,367 --> 00:51:01,127
Speaker 3: Powerful men have been getting away with shit like this

1088
00:51:01,247 --> 00:51:03,527
Speaker 3: for generations and usually paid off.

1089
00:51:03,647 --> 00:51:04,207
Speaker 2: Go away.

1090
00:51:04,367 --> 00:51:06,487
Speaker 3: We don't believe that anyway, and they'll get the backing.

1091
00:51:06,767 --> 00:51:10,767
Speaker 3: But the tables have turned. Don't have that many tears.

1092
00:51:10,527 --> 00:51:13,087
Speaker 5: To shed from me before we go.

1093
00:51:13,487 --> 00:51:15,887
Speaker 4: So many out louders have a lot to say about

1094
00:51:15,967 --> 00:51:17,807
Speaker 4: last week's group therapy episode.

1095
00:51:17,847 --> 00:51:20,287
Speaker 5: It was one of the juiciest ones we've had.

1096
00:51:21,367 --> 00:51:23,087
Speaker 4: It was we had a very big argument about it,

1097
00:51:23,127 --> 00:51:26,007
Speaker 4: and I was a little bit I'll give you a vibe.

1098
00:51:26,127 --> 00:51:27,847
Speaker 5: It was about a.

1099
00:51:27,487 --> 00:51:30,607
Speaker 4: Woman who is being woken up by her husband pleasuring

1100
00:51:30,687 --> 00:51:32,847
Speaker 4: himself beside her in the middle of the night, and

1101
00:51:32,887 --> 00:51:35,927
Speaker 4: we discuss whether or not frozen, the pros and cons,

1102
00:51:36,007 --> 00:51:37,967
Speaker 4: whether that's fair, and whose.

1103
00:51:37,767 --> 00:51:38,447
Speaker 2: Team are we on.

1104
00:51:38,687 --> 00:51:40,407
Speaker 3: Sort of sparked a lot of a device for me,

1105
00:51:40,487 --> 00:51:42,007
Speaker 3: or about how she can look at her phone in

1106
00:51:42,007 --> 00:51:45,287
Speaker 3: the night without her husband, And to be clear, that

1107
00:51:45,447 --> 00:51:48,207
Speaker 3: wasn't nothing like sexual or sorted about that, But me,

1108
00:51:48,287 --> 00:51:50,167
Speaker 3: I was like, I sympathize.

1109
00:51:49,647 --> 00:51:51,407
Speaker 2: Because I want to look at my phone and I can't,

1110
00:51:51,447 --> 00:51:53,207
Speaker 2: and lots of so hard I do this do that?

1111
00:51:53,247 --> 00:51:55,527
Speaker 1: You got to be considerate when you're sharing a bed.

1112
00:51:55,687 --> 00:51:57,807
Speaker 5: Here is a sneak peek of the episode.

1113
00:51:58,247 --> 00:52:00,367
Speaker 1: What if she just went and sorted herself out in

1114
00:52:00,407 --> 00:52:01,687
Speaker 1: the middle of the night and he knocked on the

1115
00:52:01,687 --> 00:52:03,607
Speaker 1: door and went, hey, what are you doing? What? You've

1116
00:52:03,607 --> 00:52:05,447
Speaker 1: woken me up with the noise of that buzzing? What

1117
00:52:05,487 --> 00:52:06,927
Speaker 1: are you doing? I feel really offended.

1118
00:52:07,047 --> 00:52:09,647
Speaker 3: But that's not what's happening. She's being woken up in

1119
00:52:09,687 --> 00:52:11,887
Speaker 3: the night with her husband. I don't think it's thet

1120
00:52:11,887 --> 00:52:15,047
Speaker 3: abating in their bed. Next week is he laziest?

1121
00:52:15,167 --> 00:52:16,167
Speaker 1: It is lazy to do.

1122
00:52:16,767 --> 00:52:20,687
Speaker 3: It, laziest, most uncaring. Like she's asked him not to

1123
00:52:20,687 --> 00:52:22,247
Speaker 3: do it, he continues to do it.

1124
00:52:22,607 --> 00:52:23,447
Speaker 2: That is the issue.

1125
00:52:23,447 --> 00:52:25,127
Speaker 1: Did she ask him not to masturbate or did she

1126
00:52:25,167 --> 00:52:27,007
Speaker 1: ask him not to wake her up and do it

1127
00:52:27,087 --> 00:52:29,607
Speaker 1: next to her? Like if someone was doing it right

1128
00:52:29,687 --> 00:52:32,727
Speaker 1: next to you. I can see why that feels almost

1129
00:52:32,767 --> 00:52:33,687
Speaker 1: a bit intimate.

1130
00:52:34,127 --> 00:52:36,327
Speaker 5: A link to that will be in the show notes

1131
00:52:36,527 --> 00:52:37,207
Speaker 5: and out loud as.

1132
00:52:37,287 --> 00:52:40,407
Speaker 4: We always want your dilemmas, so if you've got a

1133
00:52:40,407 --> 00:52:43,807
Speaker 4: spicy one, please email us at out loud at mommeya

1134
00:52:43,847 --> 00:52:44,567
Speaker 4: dot com dot au.

1135
00:52:44,647 --> 00:52:46,127
Speaker 5: We will have a link to that email in the

1136
00:52:46,127 --> 00:52:46,607
Speaker 5: show notes.

1137
00:52:46,967 --> 00:52:49,407
Speaker 3: A very massive thank you to all of you out

1138
00:52:49,407 --> 00:52:52,167
Speaker 3: louders for coming and listening to our show today. Gosh,

1139
00:52:52,207 --> 00:52:54,407
Speaker 3: the news cycle has been a lot. And to our

1140
00:52:54,407 --> 00:52:56,767
Speaker 3: fabulous team for putting this show together. We'll be back

1141
00:52:56,767 --> 00:52:57,807
Speaker 3: in your ears tomorrow.

1142
00:52:58,247 --> 00:52:59,087
Speaker 2: Bye.

1143
00:53:00,207 --> 00:53:02,727
Speaker 5: Shout out to any Muma mia subscribers listening.

1144
00:53:02,967 --> 00:53:05,127
Speaker 4: If you love the show and you want to support us,

1145
00:53:05,367 --> 00:53:08,287
Speaker 4: subscribing to MoMA Mia is the very best way to

1146
00:53:08,327 --> 00:53:08,647
Speaker 4: do so.

1147
00:53:09,327 --> 00:53:10,727
Speaker 5: A link in the episode description

1148
00:53:18,367 --> 00:53:18,647
Speaker 1: MHM