Speaker 1: We acknowledged the traditional custodians of the land we're recording
Speaker 1: on today. That's your person who's not protected you.
Speaker 2: I wasn't safe. I wasn't protected and that is the
Speaker 2: job of a parent.
Speaker 1: Exactly exactly. Hello, shit is it's been a while. Welcome
Speaker 1: back to Eat, Sleep, Shit Repeat, The Wildly Unhingeed Podcast,
Speaker 1: all about the madness that is motherhood and everything in between.
Speaker 2: I'm Key re Sell, I'm Kelly McCarran. Season five. There
Speaker 2: really is no rhyme or reason to any of our seasons.
Speaker 2: So it sounds so impressive like season five, but let's
Speaker 2: be honest. The first season was six episodes just to
Speaker 2: feel everything out, and then some of them have just
Speaker 2: been I honestly couldn't even tell you how many episodes
Speaker 2: there have been in each season. It's just generally when
Speaker 2: we have to take a break because of other things
Speaker 2: and we're like, re calibra, yeah season next season.
Speaker 1: Everyone, we were like, we're up to episode sixteen.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, yeah, it's time for a little bit.
Speaker 1: Generally, we want to do like four seasons a year,
Speaker 1: like terms sounds kind of to align with school holidays
Speaker 1: and et cetera. Et cetera.
Speaker 2: And when we are reaching a stage where we do
Speaker 2: an episode about ghosts, then that's when we need to recalibrate.
Speaker 1: Well, I could not believe how fast this year has gone. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I feel like we're on the tail end of it.
Speaker 1: And then I'm gonna have a baby pretty soon, I'll
Speaker 1: How crazy is that?
Speaker 2: I had an exceptionally memorable unmemorable, I might say, New
Speaker 2: Year's And the weird thing is is that it actually just
Speaker 2: still feels really recent, Like I think, oh my goodness, news,
Speaker 2: that was so much fun, like the best New Years
Speaker 2: I've had in so long. Yeah, but oh my goodness, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: I'm closer to this New Years than last year. I know.
Speaker 1: It's weird, isn't it. Well? On the show today, we're
Speaker 1: unpacking one of the juiciest parenthood hot topics. Should I
Speaker 1: put my kid on socials? How much is too much?
Speaker 2: Being content creators? We're both also going to dish on
Speaker 2: the monetary benefits of including your kids, and do we
Speaker 2: ever feel bad they pay you?
Speaker 1: How much?
Speaker 2: But first he can pit bibbers and it is my town.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, you've been in Europe. Surely you've got
Speaker 2: lots of peaks and pits.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but mine the next week.
Speaker 2: Yeah, true, true, The entire episode is actually about your
Speaker 2: trip next week, so everyone can get excited about that.
Speaker 2: As always, we start off.
Speaker 1: With our the German Gloom, the Doom and.
Speaker 2: Gloom, and I actually need your help with my pitch
Speaker 2: because I'm still very unsure what to do. So I
Speaker 2: had sneaky suspicions that Lynn needed his adnoids out for sure, yes,
Speaker 2: and also I suspected tonsils because he's honestly, he's been
Speaker 2: on antibotics that many times. He always snotty and disgusting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm so surprised it took them that long to
Speaker 1: refer you.
Speaker 2: Well, he did go on to an inte though. Originally,
Speaker 2: when Lenny was one, he had grommets put in, but
Speaker 2: because of his issues with his soft I guess and
Speaker 2: his reflux and everything as a baby, he had to
Speaker 2: get scoped and biopsies, so he had a gastrologist at
Speaker 2: the same time as the E and t in the surgery,
Speaker 2: so he was only under for the one procedure. So
Speaker 2: like it took a lot of admin to get that
Speaker 2: in the same hospital and everything. So I don't know
Speaker 2: if it was because they were already doing a couple
Speaker 2: of things. But the E and T, who haven't gone
Speaker 2: back to for multiple reasons, never even looked in his
Speaker 2: throat or in his nose, which is wild to me
Speaker 2: because so many kids, especially little boys, need the full
Speaker 2: trifector exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Anyway, so I knew that
Speaker 2: both of his grammts had come out. That happened, and
Speaker 2: then within a few weeks of the grommets both coming out,
Speaker 2: he had such a hectic ear infection that, like both
Speaker 2: of these's were proper flooding with fluids. It was disgusting.
Speaker 2: And his nose is something that most people have never witnessed.
Speaker 2: All kids get snotty. Yeah, but when I tell you that, Lenny,
Speaker 2: like when he sneezes, it lands in his lap. Sometimes
Speaker 2: there is that much snot it must be so uncomfortable. Exactly.
Speaker 2: I still suck his snot manually a lot, like a
Speaker 2: couple of times a week.
Speaker 1: To help the poor he like, is he okay with
Speaker 1: you doing it?
Speaker 2: I have to bribe him, But he can be bribed,
Speaker 2: probably because he knows that it does feel better, like
Speaker 2: it obviously hurts him, or he doesn't like it, but
Speaker 2: so took him to an E and t as best
Speaker 2: as she could. She had a good look around and
Speaker 2: she was like, adnoids definitely need to come out. So
Speaker 2: she would chuck some grommets in and then she was like, listen,
Speaker 2: the tonsils certainly are big, Like they're not so big
Speaker 2: that some kids it's inhibiting. They're eating their speech, a
Speaker 2: lot of different things, so they're not big big, but
Speaker 2: they're definitely not on the small, safer side where they
Speaker 2: wouldn't touch them. So she was kind of like, yeah,
Speaker 2: we could do that as well. But the difference is
Speaker 2: is that with adnoids and gromets, he would have it
Speaker 2: done on like a Thursday, say, and he would be
Speaker 2: back at daycare on the Monday and he'd be fine.
Speaker 2: But tols a tonsils like a proper in hospital, there's
Speaker 2: not a low chance of a rebleed and it's two
Speaker 2: weeks recovery. But then on like they don't get tonsilitis
Speaker 2: or any of that shit though after right, because I
Speaker 2: don't have tonsils, so it's like long still get sick.
Speaker 2: A lot of content creators I follow with little boys
Speaker 2: that have had it done. The kids are always still
Speaker 2: bloody sick, and I'm kind of like.
Speaker 1: They're probably less severely sick than they would have been exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I think I just need to weigh up
Speaker 2: the pros and cons, Like, do I just wait a
Speaker 2: couple more years to get the tonsils out when he's
Speaker 2: a little bit older so I can understand the concept
Speaker 2: of why he's getting it done.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a really good point.
Speaker 2: If he was a bit older, and I could be like,
Speaker 2: this is why I need you to take the medicine
Speaker 2: because it's going to help with your pain relief.
Speaker 1: This and you get to get ice cream and you
Speaker 1: get to have milkshake.
Speaker 2: And at the moment, of course, he understands a lot.
Speaker 2: But he's also two, even though he's huge, and I
Speaker 2: think a lot of people forget that when they look
Speaker 2: at him, that he actually is only two and a half.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's still a little boy.
Speaker 2: So it would be really hard to try to explain
Speaker 2: different things to him.
Speaker 1: Well, I think you know best. I think to me,
Speaker 1: the way you've just explained it, I think you.
Speaker 2: Know I'm erring on the side. You can tell that
Speaker 2: I'm erring on the side of just adenoids.
Speaker 1: And I think his age, you don't want them to
Speaker 1: be down and out for too long.
Speaker 2: I can't really afford to take two weeks off as well.
Speaker 2: Like anyway, my peek, you're going to be so happy. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I booked a holiday.
Speaker 1: I am so happy for you.
Speaker 2: I do need to say that with all my winging,
Speaker 2: it's not like I haven't done anything over the past,
Speaker 2: Like I haven't been on holidays for over four and
Speaker 2: a half years, almost five years. But I've been on
Speaker 2: like girls' mini breaks and like little weekends away, which
Speaker 2: is still more than something else. So I do feel
Speaker 2: a bit guilty whinging about these sorts of things. But
Speaker 2: the crazy thing is is that what I realized as
Speaker 2: well when I used to work in corporate but like
Speaker 2: five in a nine to five and I had a
Speaker 2: team Remember talking to the HR once because I was
Speaker 2: trying to sort out like some team members leave, and
Speaker 2: I said to the HR, I was like, oh, you're
Speaker 2: not going to be happy about how much leave this
Speaker 2: person has because then they're probably saving it all up
Speaker 2: to go away for a couple of months next year, right,
Speaker 2: Like that's why you don't want people banking leave And
Speaker 2: she goes, no, no, She's like, we don't like people
Speaker 2: banking leave because there is a direct correlation between length
Speaker 2: between having a break, having a holiday, and then like
Speaker 2: your workload productivity declining, wow mistakes. The actual data behind
Speaker 2: why people need holidays when you work nine to five
Speaker 2: is crazy. Wow.
Speaker 1: So it's like a strategy to kind of prevent burnout, yes, exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I was thinking about that because then I thought, oh,
Speaker 2: my goodness, you silly billy. I'm probably just so burnt
Speaker 2: out at the moment that because I haven't had any
Speaker 2: break proper, even had a baby, I didn't have a break.
Speaker 2: So it's like, of course I'm so feeling so overwhelmed
Speaker 2: and burnt out.
Speaker 1: By every definitely, And I feel like I don't know
Speaker 1: what kind of a person you are on a holiday.
Speaker 1: But my sight said that something to me before we
Speaker 1: went to Europe, and it was, hey, when you're on holiday,
Speaker 1: if you just go for a walk that day around
Speaker 1: where you are, that's cool. Like you don't have to
Speaker 1: be doing something every day.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I'm perfectly good at like.
Speaker 1: Actually rest and don't make it be like a busy holiday.
Speaker 2: Like a good mix between busyness and also like one
Speaker 2: busy day, one chill day, one busy day to break
Speaker 2: it up like that. But listen me being me, I
Speaker 2: guarantee I'll have two days off socials and then I'll
Speaker 2: suddenly get like a birtht of Yeah, especially if Len's
Speaker 2: being super cute, which is funny given today. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: so excited, Like I've already messaged my energy healer and
Speaker 2: I'm trying to get in with her, and you know
Speaker 2: who knows what will happen after I visit her.
Speaker 1: You've also already got the whole wardrobe for you, and
Speaker 1: you've got the suitcase too.
Speaker 2: Did my travel spoon? I've got my cutely yellow suitcats
Speaker 2: is ready to go.
Speaker 1: You're so prepaired. I'm just so glad you've done it.
Speaker 2: You deserve it, so more about traveling next week.
Speaker 1: You've just had a baby. You're completely in love. They're
Speaker 1: also still asleep, and you can't wait to share that
Speaker 1: little human you've just grown or have been patiently waiting
Speaker 1: for that they've arrived. You want to share their name. Wait,
Speaker 1: and that mummy's.
Speaker 2: Doing great, Mum and bub doing well.
Speaker 1: Mum and bub doing well. You might pop it in
Speaker 1: your family chat, your group chats direct to the besties,
Speaker 1: and then social media. I'm going to admit something a
Speaker 1: bit mean here.
Speaker 2: He's not often mean, so this is.
Speaker 1: But I have to be honest. Okay, I do get
Speaker 1: a little bit judgy wudgie with how soon people share
Speaker 1: their baby announcements.
Speaker 2: They might have had it ready to go though it
Speaker 2: might be their partner.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I just I just don't know how anyone could be bothered.
Speaker 1: And look, I do it in my head exclusively to myself,
Speaker 1: like only a bitch behind their back to me.
Speaker 2: Obviously, you don't comment on someone's post going going a
Speaker 2: bit soon already on social media, huh.
Speaker 1: But in my head I'm thinking, like, aren't you tied China?
Speaker 2: Aren't you still being stitched?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Aren't you trying to do a boob before they
Speaker 1: let you go home? That's kind of what I'm thinking.
Speaker 1: But I don't know what the appropriate time is, so
Speaker 1: I don't even like know what I'm judging that off,
Speaker 1: but I do feel some kind of way about it.
Speaker 1: Maybe three days i'd feel okay.
Speaker 2: How often? How quickly did you share?
Speaker 1: Oh like a week and a half.
Speaker 2: I was so long, not so long, but I wasn't
Speaker 2: even ready to post when I did. But Luke said
Speaker 2: to me, can you please post something? Because he was
Speaker 2: getting so many dms from people. Then friends were messaging
Speaker 2: him saying, hey, I'm getting dms from people like and
Speaker 2: they didn't want to bother me with it, but they
Speaker 2: were also like, oh my goodness, why are you being so.
Speaker 1: They can't really answer those people.
Speaker 2: So I was also very weird about I think because
Speaker 2: of what I've been through, but I didn't want to
Speaker 2: talk to anyone. I didn't really want to. I get it, yeah, anyway,
Speaker 2: So it took me so long to share anything.
Speaker 1: Which makes complete sense. And that's why I'm also like
Speaker 1: anyone that's had a bit of trauma.
Speaker 2: Maybe that'll be such a good example of the difference.
Speaker 2: Like if you have a really great birth next time,
Speaker 2: you might post that day because you'll be like, gods
Speaker 2: have just slayed this whole birth thing.
Speaker 1: That's actually true. Maybe I will, Maybe I will. Okay,
Speaker 1: So we've made it through me being an absolute Karen
Speaker 1: on your announcement post. It's me. I know I am
Speaker 1: the problem, so don't worry about that. But where at
Speaker 1: you from here? Cal we've taken slightly different routes when
Speaker 1: it comes to sharing. Len and Rual on socials. Can
Speaker 1: you talk me through how you felt about sharing len
Speaker 1: when you were pregnant or just like you know, your pregnancy,
Speaker 1: I guess, versus now as a toddler. Have your feelings changed,
Speaker 1: you know, over the past two and a half three
Speaker 1: as years if we factor in being pregnant as well,
Speaker 1: and have you ever regretted sharing anything?
Speaker 2: So the funny thing is is that I didn't share
Speaker 2: that much early in my pregnancy because I was so ill.
Speaker 2: So even after I sort of announced it, it wasn't like
Speaker 2: I was just always online sharing different things about my
Speaker 2: pregnancy because everything that was happening with my friend, I
Speaker 2: didn't want to gloat about being pregnant, and also I
Speaker 2: was just so ill. When I look back, I definitely
Speaker 2: probably shared too much about some things, and I don't
Speaker 2: regret it because I do know how much it helped
Speaker 2: other women who then felt seen through maybe what they
Speaker 2: were feeling or what their baby was doing. On reflection,
Speaker 2: it's kind of like, oh, that information is now out
Speaker 2: in the world and it does involve him. Yeah, just
Speaker 2: little things like I just would never want to hurt
Speaker 2: Lenny's feelings or make him think, oh, my goodness, my
Speaker 2: mom was so miserable when I was little, and I
Speaker 2: can try to explain it to him as much as possible.
Speaker 2: But if it was my mom that had shared like
Speaker 2: that and I saw it as a grown up even
Speaker 2: I would be like, oh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's such a good point.
Speaker 2: So and also just some things about he's like, I'm
Speaker 2: quite certain I shared medical information about different things that
Speaker 2: I probably, you know, that's very personal to him. It's not,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't feel like an t stuff
Speaker 2: is personal.
Speaker 1: But other stuff, it was some stuff I know.
Speaker 2: You know what, you know what one I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: So I'm pretty sure I spoke about that publicly and
Speaker 2: then it's like, hell, that's his, it's not any.
Speaker 1: And it's not.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, I do think that I probably just
Speaker 2: shared too much. But once that was just learning for me.
Speaker 2: And it's kind of funny because, well, I guess the
Speaker 2: older he gets, he's more of an individual person. So
Speaker 2: it's funny if you looked at my Instagram, Yeah, the
Speaker 2: first year that he was born, my grid is just
Speaker 2: like all us. Yeah. And then as he started daycare,
Speaker 2: if you look at my grid now, it looks like
Speaker 2: it have a kid.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because I've removed him from so much of
Speaker 2: my content because there's so many different reasons, but one
Speaker 2: of the biggest ones is that he is now an
Speaker 2: individual person with his own life. It's not like we
Speaker 2: are just a pair that does every single thing together. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I'm not going to share him all over the
Speaker 2: time because he doesn't like it. You know how people go, oh,
Speaker 2: my kid loves being part of it. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: myst I don't really know what they're saying. Yes too,
Speaker 2: but even he doesn't actually love sometimes he does, and
Speaker 2: that's when I'll be like filming and having fun with him.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But if he is just like cranky because he doesn't
Speaker 2: like the phone or the camera, I just put it down.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to annoy it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a boundary there and it's clear, yeah, like
Speaker 1: he's uncomfortable or not into it or whatever.
Speaker 2: And I've always been extremely private and safe about if
Speaker 2: I share a daycare photo, I analyze that photo. I
Speaker 2: don't even know why I bother because I analyze it
Speaker 2: for about ten minutes. To every single feature of anyone
Speaker 2: else or location, anything that could give anything away is blurred.
Speaker 2: I am so careful with never sharing our location of
Speaker 2: the suburb or area even that we live in. I
Speaker 2: don't ever location post when I'm out and about until
Speaker 2: later because there's weird o's Like I'm just very, very
Speaker 2: very careful with location stuff. And it's just so funny
Speaker 2: because that's how I made one of my friends because
Speaker 2: she messaged me and she goes, hey, do you live
Speaker 2: in X my suburb? And I wrote back quite rude
Speaker 2: or not rude, but I was a bit like, how
Speaker 2: do you know that? What did I say? Like, because
Speaker 2: I just in my thought mind, even though I'm so careful,
Speaker 2: thought that i'd accidentally shared something. She was like, oh
Speaker 2: my goodness, I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to sound
Speaker 2: like a stalker. I live in ex suburb and I
Speaker 2: recognize this street, this street, this street type thing where
Speaker 2: just like tiny things you'd only know if you lived
Speaker 2: in that. You've lived in that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway,
Speaker 2: and now we're really good friends and we catch up
Speaker 2: all the time because our kids are the exact same age.
Speaker 2: So that was really good. But it's just, yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: so careful, so you're aware.
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not perfect. I've definitely I'm learning as
Speaker 2: I go along, but I try my best without pretending
Speaker 2: he doesn't exist or keeping him completely off my socials
Speaker 2: because as much I completely respect what anyone else wants
Speaker 2: to do, but he's just too I share my life online.
Speaker 2: That is a part of I guess my content that
Speaker 2: I'm always sharing my life and he's a huge part
Speaker 2: of my life.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And he's just such a joyful, hilarious little thing. I
Speaker 2: want to share him. Yeah, not everything about him, but yeah,
Speaker 2: some stuff I love sharing. Yeah, So I guess that's
Speaker 2: where I'm at. What about you, because then we can
Speaker 2: get into the monetary side of content creation with babies,
Speaker 2: which I know is when people start getting real angry
Speaker 2: and opinionated.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I was fairly open during pregnancy.
Speaker 2: I would not tell you. I don't remember.
Speaker 1: I think I was like, i'd what, no why. I
Speaker 1: just had a good pregnant I'm having more trying pregnancy.
Speaker 2: I am more text book if you will.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go, there you go. But I always felt,
Speaker 1: even pregnant, I felt really strongly about keeping them off
Speaker 1: socials for two main reasons. One is one I think
Speaker 1: that like everyone can relate to, which is like the
Speaker 1: dark web and people who are you know, the wrong
Speaker 1: types of people getting hold of that content. And then
Speaker 1: the other one is actually because of my birth mum,
Speaker 1: my Instagram is not private, so anyone can look at it.
Speaker 1: I know for a fact that she does listen to
Speaker 1: the podcasts because I've had an email recently about my
Speaker 1: critique of her parenting if you will so, and that
Speaker 1: confirmed my thoughts, Like I thought, of course, she probably
Speaker 1: because she can't get access to me. I'm assuming she
Speaker 1: would or someone would at least send it to her.
Speaker 1: So you're curious. So I always people up on Instagram, Like,
Speaker 1: I'm not surprised if she looked me up. But that's
Speaker 1: the thing. It's like, I really want to protect rue
Speaker 1: and I don't want someone who's been really hurtful to
Speaker 1: me and really toxic to me to really have access
Speaker 1: to her in that way or form an opinion about
Speaker 1: her or talk to me about her in any way,
Speaker 1: because she isn't a part of that life. So that
Speaker 1: is one of the biggest reasons behind it.
Speaker 2: And my God, if you ever get famous, your mom
Speaker 2: is gonna like tell all the book. She will megan
Speaker 2: you you know how the dad came out with all
Speaker 2: these stupid stories.
Speaker 1: That will be your mom yeah, I'm like waiting for
Speaker 1: it to happen. In the newborn phase, I really.
Speaker 2: Didn't say publicity is good, publicity, go for gold, get
Speaker 2: eased to the pod.
Speaker 1: Honestly, I really didn't share that much in the newborn
Speaker 1: phase because I feel like I really loved it. And I
Speaker 1: know we hate this term, but it's the only term
Speaker 1: to it. Like I loved that bubble that.
Speaker 2: I am the trimestic key.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I really enjoyed that time, and I loved the
Speaker 1: slowness of it. I loved connecting with this little baby
Speaker 1: that I had dreamed about, you know, for nine months.
Speaker 1: But I think it was also millennial burnout. It was
Speaker 1: like the first time where I could completely switch off
Speaker 1: from a job. Because every vacation throughout my professional career,
Speaker 1: or most of them, I've had to work on. So
Speaker 1: it was not that having a baby is a vacation,
Speaker 1: but I completely switched off and it.
Speaker 2: Didn't might say a lot about how beautiful your experience
Speaker 2: was as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I really do think it was really indicative
Speaker 1: of that. I mean, because I said I didn't even
Speaker 1: watch TVs, I didn't listen to podcasts, like I just
Speaker 1: was looked went on so many walks, Like that's what
Speaker 1: I made was really deep nature. That's when I've made
Speaker 1: those really deep connections with my mother's group friends and like,
Speaker 1: I really he gave my man to.
Speaker 2: That rocking in a corner.
Speaker 1: I know, I'm so sorry that that happened. And then
Speaker 1: as I kind of found my rhythm, I started posting
Speaker 1: a little bit. I would post like baby things I
Speaker 1: loved and I shared, like our solids journey, but I
Speaker 1: was very like, I just would put something over her face.
Speaker 2: On her head.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just put like a little emoji or something
Speaker 1: on her face or some sonnies or whatever.
Speaker 2: But Charlie never did. So I loved having access to
Speaker 2: me through Charlie's page.
Speaker 1: And he's so rogue on social All.
Speaker 2: The stuff he shares about her is so cute.
Speaker 1: You can share that he's got a private account he
Speaker 1: totally dons he does, which is fine. He can totally
Speaker 1: do it. And then that's kind of evolved and now
Speaker 1: I show glimpses of her and then when I feel
Speaker 1: comfortable or in that moment, I'm happy to like post it.
Speaker 1: But it's rare for me really to post her face
Speaker 1: and a lot of stuff. And I guess I mean,
Speaker 1: maybe I'm just projecting on you, but you also probably
Speaker 1: at this point don't want to make it too weird
Speaker 1: by just never ever sharing her at all, and then
Speaker 1: every now and then if it's spott and being like
Speaker 1: here she is exactly, and that's that thing that comes
Speaker 1: into it, right. Like the other thing I wanted to
Speaker 1: say is like I don't actually police it on other
Speaker 1: people's socials.
Speaker 2: Oh see, I just have always covered her face well
Speaker 2: before like you started sharing, but simply out of respect.
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people have followed that
Speaker 1: kind of rule of funb like no one really posts
Speaker 1: like front on a photos of her or anything like that.
Speaker 1: They have kind of picked up on like that's what
Speaker 1: I share, so that's what they do. But I never
Speaker 1: wanted to police it because I just felt like most
Speaker 1: of my friends don't have like a public profile that
Speaker 1: would be bad, like all the people that follow them.
Speaker 2: Well, Lucy and I would, well, I guess we're two
Speaker 2: of your closest friends.
Speaker 1: But exactly so you guys kind of know that tray
Speaker 1: of us.
Speaker 2: Are close enough to you to know that we just
Speaker 2: wouldn't be like, yeah, he's.
Speaker 1: Rue, here's here's rue. But recently though, due to the
Speaker 1: nature of our jobs, we obviously get approached to do campaigns,
Speaker 1: and this is like where the expectation is that room
Speaker 1: might feature and most people that follow me in contact
Speaker 1: me to do brand stuff understand that I don't show
Speaker 1: heaps of her, right, but I did have one brand
Speaker 1: be like her face has to be in it, and
Speaker 1: I was like, no, like, I'm not letting you dictate
Speaker 1: what I'm going to do, Like if I shoot stuff
Speaker 1: because you want to use my baby to sell something,
Speaker 1: like I shouldn't be. I get what you're saying, but
Speaker 1: you like, if it's a lifestyle, like she's part of
Speaker 1: my life, but not, oh, your baby's face needs to
Speaker 1: be in it. Yeah, I felt icky about that. So
Speaker 1: the thing is is like I'll shoot spawn that she's in,
Speaker 1: Like I don't do much spawn, so it isn't that
Speaker 1: big of a deal all the time. But when you
Speaker 1: know it is like a baby brand or maybe it's
Speaker 1: something like Father's Day content and.
Speaker 2: Stuff for the pod with brands for babies like Bonds, Yeah,
Speaker 2: grow to like that's organic, almost organic.
Speaker 1: And also I have full control over it, so I'm
Speaker 1: fine with like a couple of seconds of her face
Speaker 1: being in it. I feel like I'm okay with that,
Speaker 1: and I always show it to Charlie. That's kind of
Speaker 1: my thing. I'm like, hey, are you okay with this?
Speaker 1: He's like, she's going to be a star, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: that's not the right answer. I'm not trying to make
Speaker 1: his child star here. But the other thing about it,
Speaker 1: right is.
Speaker 2: It's really lucrative and like so lucrative, and that's what well,
Speaker 2: we started laughing when we thought about this episode because
Speaker 2: I was laughing at Key, Key will get into it more.
Speaker 2: But to be at the start like no, no, my
Speaker 2: kid's not on social media? What how much you want
Speaker 2: to pay me?
Speaker 1: How much? And I'm like, well, fuck, that's a lot.
Speaker 1: It is so if it's going to help set your
Speaker 1: kid up, it's kind of like very hard.
Speaker 2: But we're going to get more into that. I'll just
Speaker 2: let you finish.
Speaker 1: So recently, I had an opportunity to work with a
Speaker 1: brand that we use in our everyday lives all the time.
Speaker 1: My kids sat product.
Speaker 2: He and Rue beat lennon Kel out of the job.
Speaker 1: Books wonder if.
Speaker 2: There was anyone else up for it, probably probably, but
Speaker 2: we got it.
Speaker 1: We got it. It was a big consideration just because
Speaker 1: of the difference in the content.
Speaker 2: That it was. It was a two day shoot with
Speaker 2: a crew.
Speaker 1: I had them kind of send me everything in advance
Speaker 1: and like really detailed with any kind of shoot of
Speaker 1: that caliber. There's a nurse on set, which I thought
Speaker 1: was really cool, like just that there's someone there who
Speaker 1: is a kid's nurse but also advocates for you, so
Speaker 1: if they start to think, like your kid's a little
Speaker 1: bit tired, they'll be like, hey, guys, we need to happen.
Speaker 2: Didn't tell me that part.
Speaker 1: That's so Yeah, it was actually awesome. So we liked
Speaker 1: the idea. We decided to go through with it, and
Speaker 1: I thought, okay, this, let me just do this as
Speaker 1: like a little test to see.
Speaker 2: How comfortable you felt.
Speaker 1: Comfortable I felt. The other thing was it was being
Speaker 1: used on Instagram, only not on TikTok, and I have
Speaker 1: different feelings about different platforms.
Speaker 2: Can I explain why, because I, yeah, I had the
Speaker 2: exact same. What a lot of people don't really is
Speaker 2: the way that the algorithm works on TikTok and on Instagram,
Speaker 2: so on TikTok, the way that people use TikTok is
Speaker 2: they are just on there for you page, and all
Speaker 2: this different content based on their preferences is targeted towards them.
Speaker 2: So if you like little children, yeah, you just get
Speaker 2: little children on your page. Yeah, Whereas on Instagram the
Speaker 2: algorithm is way harder, which is so good for parents.
Speaker 2: It is because it's hard for creeps to It's not hard,
Speaker 2: but it's a lot harder for creeps to access you
Speaker 2: and your content because your contents mainly primarily only going
Speaker 2: to people that follow you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, and with like paid targeted advertising, that is
Speaker 1: also being structured to target one type of consumer as well,
Speaker 1: whereas on TikTok it just goes out into it everyone.
Speaker 1: So so ultimately we said yes, and I enjoyed the process.
Speaker 1: The content turned out so cute, like, and it went live.
Speaker 1: All of our friends and family thought it was like
Speaker 1: so cute. Charlie loved it, But I don't know if
Speaker 1: I would do it again. And it's only because, really,
Speaker 1: only because I did feel like our husbands.
Speaker 2: Live in very different financial brackets, because I couldn't say no.
Speaker 1: Well, my thing was is I didn't enjoy being a
Speaker 1: stage mum, okay, yeah, that's fair. I didn't enjoy that
Speaker 1: part of it. So the content going live. See, and
Speaker 1: this is the other things Like when we're shooting content ourselves,
Speaker 1: we're in charge of like that's what we do all
Speaker 1: the time. But when you're adding another person, like I'm
Speaker 1: almost the middleman to rue in a way, you know,
Speaker 1: and everyone's so friendly. Like for context, this is like
Speaker 1: a campaign that I.
Speaker 2: Got through people that used to work people that I
Speaker 2: used to.
Speaker 1: Work with, So I knew everyone on set. Everyone was lovely,
Speaker 1: from the makeup artist to everyone there, the sound guy,
Speaker 1: so lovely, so understanding. It wasn't about anything that happened
Speaker 1: specifically to them. It was more just like I didn't
Speaker 1: like making her perform yep fair and so I totally
Speaker 1: get that.
Speaker 2: Actually she like a little monkey.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just felt like, oh, dance, monkey dance. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just didn't feel like I wanted to have that
Speaker 1: relationship with her.
Speaker 2: The funny thing is, I'm making lots of jokes about it,
Speaker 2: but I've always said no to Lenny centric campaigns. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I'm okay with him being in the background or
Speaker 2: like a secondary role in some content, but I always
Speaker 2: need to be the primary Yeah, because yeah, I'm exactly,
Speaker 2: I don't want to make him do anything. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: it's so weird when I do. Yeah, Like sometimes I'll
Speaker 2: ask him this sounds so random. But a Lamington ad
Speaker 2: at the start of.
Speaker 1: The year, I remember that.
Speaker 2: The behind the scenes footage is actually so funny of
Speaker 2: me saying, come on, Lenny, come on heavy, walk into
Speaker 2: Nanny's room, give it the Lamington. The thing is that
Speaker 2: everything's very organic because it's like we do go and
Speaker 2: visit Nanny and they take her flowers and we love
Speaker 2: taking her Lamington's because she used to always make lamington
Speaker 2: So that was where the concept came from. But then
Speaker 2: me being like, oh, kids, you did such a good job.
Speaker 2: I just guess I try to make it fun. And
Speaker 2: then another time I have chat to make them do
Speaker 2: something is when we did the kinder Easter hunts. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: but I just made okay, we're practicing for Easter type
Speaker 2: thing and I did give them eggs, so they kind
Speaker 2: of had a lot of fun. But you don't want
Speaker 2: to be like, okay, now do this, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: We've got to do that again.
Speaker 1: It just yeah, it's how many takes, what do you do?
Speaker 1: And stuff like that. So I really love working with
Speaker 1: office works like I work with them a lot, and
Speaker 1: it's so cool because the campaigns that they do is
Speaker 1: it's all about arts and crafts, so stuff that they're
Speaker 1: so fun Like, yeah, it ends up being an activity
Speaker 1: that ruined I do the day and I just set
Speaker 1: up the tripod and film, like it's so easy because.
Speaker 2: Then it's you're not asking to do things. You've just
Speaker 2: filming while you're doing things that you normally would do
Speaker 2: anyway exactly.
Speaker 1: And that's the difference and a voice I don't do exactly.
Speaker 1: I don't want to do like acting stuff with her.
Speaker 1: I'm so happy to do just like lifestyle, like our
Speaker 1: life things do anyway, because that's what we do. We
Speaker 1: always do. Like an activity. We did this like unicorn
Speaker 1: thing that was actually so sick at instrom Office works
Speaker 1: O Lincoln in the show notes. It comes deconstructed and
Speaker 1: it's like pieces of cardboard and it's like a face
Speaker 1: or like a wing anyway you draw on. It comes
Speaker 1: with crayons and stickers and you do all the stuff
Speaker 1: and then you assemble it and they put it over
Speaker 1: themselves and so her little head.
Speaker 2: Oh my godness, and her arms.
Speaker 1: Are out and she's just like immunicle and it's actually
Speaker 1: so fun. That is so cute, but like stuff like that, yeah,
Speaker 1: is awesome because we do that anyway, and just stuff
Speaker 1: that they use, like Lenny and I did Lego Jublow
Speaker 1: last year, which I frosted.
Speaker 2: So I said to them. I was like, you guys
Speaker 2: don't even need to pay me, just send to me
Speaker 2: the product and we stoked.
Speaker 1: It's so expensive though, so I was like, sick, I
Speaker 1: always get the ten dollar boxes.
Speaker 2: I just get it on special because I've I love
Speaker 2: playing with duplo myself. And then one final thing on
Speaker 2: the whole spawn aspect of it is to acknowledge that
Speaker 2: what we're doing is we're not making money off our
Speaker 2: children for us. I mean maybe some people are, so
Speaker 2: what can I both do any money that our kids
Speaker 2: make on social media? So say they feature heavily in
Speaker 2: a campaign, I put that money in an account for him. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and you know, one day, if he's like, fuck you, Mump.
Speaker 2: You put me on social media and talked about my
Speaker 2: problem on your podcast when I was little, I'll be like,
Speaker 2: here's your therapy paid for for the next twenty years. Hopefully,
Speaker 2: though I can be like, go to Europe free year,
Speaker 2: or this is going to buy you your first car
Speaker 2: or send you to UNI or something. Maybe I'm being
Speaker 2: ambitious with how much I think that he could earn.
Speaker 1: The hard thing is, though, which is another consideration of
Speaker 1: my content, because you're always trying to beat the algorithm.
Speaker 1: You're always trying to fig out what type of content
Speaker 1: does the best on you.
Speaker 2: And people love kids, people love. That sounds creepy, but people,
Speaker 2: I guess really just the funny thing is I don't
Speaker 2: really like parent content.
Speaker 1: Well I do, though, this is the thing, like my
Speaker 1: best content, So I was asked to like pull out,
Speaker 1: like what content does the best on your page? Always
Speaker 1: rue anything that has ruined.
Speaker 2: She's so cute, I get it, but I'm just like, well,
Speaker 2: if I was in your friends though, I wouldn't like
Speaker 2: that sort of That's what I don't get. I think
Speaker 2: I'm just not a very internal person. I don't care
Speaker 2: about seeing kids all.
Speaker 1: But I don't think that's true because you and I
Speaker 1: both love Mummy slipping House. I like her though not
Speaker 1: her kids, but I think that's the thing she has,
Speaker 1: like this really healthy balance because she shares. She's so whole, funny,
Speaker 1: but literally her entire life, she's a proper logger. Yeah
Speaker 1: she really is. But there's just glimpses of her kids.
Speaker 2: And she doesn't monetize them or or she does sometimes
Speaker 2: I guess, but she doesn't exploit them in any way.
Speaker 2: Nothing feels exploitative and if she's having.
Speaker 1: Like a conversation with them, the camera will just be
Speaker 1: filming her, so like you know what I mean, like
Speaker 1: they might be well no, because I was analyzing why
Speaker 1: do I really like her content? And I like make
Speaker 1: Root sit down after daycare and like if there's new videos,
Speaker 1: I'm like, let's watch a mommy slipping house because she
Speaker 1: I mean she does, she'll watch anything on a device.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I just really love her content and I
Speaker 1: was trying to figure out the why, like why does
Speaker 1: this resonate with me so much? And it's because she
Speaker 1: doesn't really monetize it often, if at all. I'm always like,
Speaker 1: how does she make money? I don't like, what's keeping
Speaker 1: it going? I think she honestly gets like maybe free
Speaker 1: trips and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: She does, and also people that aren't in Australia making
Speaker 2: a lot of money top.
Speaker 1: Thing and also YouTube because she has puts a lot
Speaker 1: of on you so they've been making a fair bit
Speaker 1: that is kind of I'm like, if I could do that, Like,
Speaker 1: that's what I'd want to be.
Speaker 2: It's so time consuming though.
Speaker 1: But that's the thing. I don't know how she does
Speaker 1: it and stays such a present mum, because the guilt
Speaker 1: that I feel sometimes if we have to shoot anything
Speaker 1: about the time it takes away just from us.
Speaker 2: She probably makes everything look so like chaotic and easy,
Speaker 2: but when the kids go to bed, she's probably editing
Speaker 2: for hours. Exactly where's you and I are watching blow Deck?
Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry about that shout out to blow Deck.
Speaker 2: My thing with content as well is that And I
Speaker 2: think you feel the same way that I don't want
Speaker 2: it to be my entire stick, even though it does
Speaker 2: so well. Like Mummy parenting, content is honestly a gold mine.
Speaker 2: People froth it. Yeah, there's so many brands and sponsors
Speaker 2: that want to work with you, like the opportunities blow up.
Speaker 2: That's why mummy influences are so huge.
Speaker 1: Your audience is continuously growing because women are coming into
Speaker 1: child bearing years.
Speaker 2: All the time. Think about the last couple of years,
Speaker 2: like actually the last three years. Two out of the
Speaker 2: three TikTok Creators of the Year it's mum content. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's such people froth it. But I have this thing
Speaker 2: whereas I'm like, I'm not just a mom, I'm so interesting,
Speaker 2: I've got all of these other things. I'm just not
Speaker 2: willing to dive completely into the mummy. Maybe if I'd
Speaker 2: more than one kid, I would maybe because I don't
Speaker 2: have time to do other things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess you kind of just submit to it.
Speaker 1: I am the same though, like I think for me,
Speaker 1: I want to be able to get my own achievements
Speaker 1: off me.
Speaker 2: And exactly not use my kid to get big.
Speaker 1: It's hard though, because they're so cute.
Speaker 2: They are so cute, and that's not a dis to
Speaker 2: anyone that does. It's just like, like we really love
Speaker 2: lots of different people's content. It's just like I don't
Speaker 2: want to use land to sell everything or to be
Speaker 2: why people want to watch my content.
Speaker 1: And it is I get it. It is a really
Speaker 1: lucrative industry. But that's I think, because it is so lucrative,
Speaker 1: it can very easily veer into child exploitation.
Speaker 2: What a segue?
Speaker 1: What a segue? And it's something that has existed long
Speaker 1: before the Internet. I think about like Brookshields, Michael Jackson
Speaker 1: Child stars Macaulay Cochlin.
Speaker 2: Any one that wasn't it isn't. How fucked Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2: But with the invention of the Internet, it's.
Speaker 1: Just really added this level of infamy to these really
Speaker 1: normal people that don't really have the tools to navigate it.
Speaker 1: Like a lot of them, I would say, for a
Speaker 1: large amount of time, might not have a business manager
Speaker 1: kind of guiding them without like how to invest their
Speaker 1: money for their kids, to set them up for the future.
Speaker 1: And then there's just really shit parents. But I think
Speaker 1: a lot about the Wren Eleanor controversy.
Speaker 2: Do I ever one of the most disgusting TikTok accounts
Speaker 2: I have ever seen. It's called Wren Eleanor. If the
Speaker 2: little girl was doing something innocent, not a lot of sieves.
Speaker 1: If the little girl was doing something that could be
Speaker 1: seen as sexualized, it was shocking. So they've got seventeen
Speaker 1: million followers on tiktop. The handle is they say them,
Speaker 1: but it's a mum name. It's the mum, but it's
Speaker 1: a baby's name.
Speaker 2: That's weird. That's something I get judging when people have
Speaker 2: like an account under their kid's name, that's weird. I
Speaker 2: think it's weird too. You can't control your kids, It's weird.
Speaker 1: It's very strange. So in July of this year, the
Speaker 1: videos all on the TikTok page went private, and this
Speaker 1: was following a bunch of backlash from TikTokers. There's like
Speaker 1: this big movement on TikTok from like TikTok mums basically
Speaker 1: going after TikTok mum creators who are exploiting their.
Speaker 2: Kids, which hands down, I forget what her name is,
Speaker 2: Jacqueline or oh yeah, Jacqueline Wren's mother. Yeah, like, I'm
Speaker 2: not even a little bit afraid to say, one hundred
Speaker 2: percent exploiting her child. She knew exactly what she was doing,
Speaker 2: and it was disgusting, and I genuinely think people like that.
Speaker 2: It actually just makes me so angry. You are literally
Speaker 2: basically one step away from producing child pornography. Yeah, you
Speaker 2: need to go to jail. And that's what it was like,
Speaker 2: back to jail.
Speaker 1: These TikTok moms who were kind of developing this movement
Speaker 1: to really protect these children that were being exploited, realized
Speaker 1: that the videos were really inappropriate. And then they also
Speaker 1: noticed that when you went to go and search for
Speaker 1: Wren's name that search terms like rn eleanor eating pickle
Speaker 1: slash hot dog. These videos exist.
Speaker 2: That's disgusting. And look at the saves on that as well, exactly.
Speaker 1: And then she would be in really revealing clothing for
Speaker 1: a toddler. We're ripped jeans, crop tops, and a lot
Speaker 1: of the comments are like this feels.
Speaker 2: Weirdo the child would be in the bath exactly. The
Speaker 2: thing is as well, is that if you don't know,
Speaker 2: like when everyone was a baby, I posted a video
Speaker 2: of her in the bath with me, I had Swimmerson.
Speaker 2: I didn't even.
Speaker 1: Think no, but you don't think because and I do
Speaker 1: want to give a lot of people the benefit of
Speaker 1: the doubt that you don't.
Speaker 2: Think, well, you just don't realize. There are so many creeps.
Speaker 1: And that's the thing. But what happens is, like I
Speaker 1: genuinely believe when Jacqueline probably started posting about Wren, it
Speaker 1: was exactly so so innocent. But what happened is that
Speaker 1: she got a following, and then.
Speaker 2: She started to make a lot of money, continues.
Speaker 1: To host and it just somewhere along the way things
Speaker 1: just get really dicey.
Speaker 2: And I though that she probably just thought she knew
Speaker 2: exactly what was happening, but she was like out of sight,
Speaker 2: out of mind. It's happening on the internet somewhere. It
Speaker 2: could be happening anyway. People do not understand how much
Speaker 2: money content creators can make on TikTok. She would be
Speaker 2: making hundreds of thousands of dollars a month.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one video that goes viral on TikTok can like
Speaker 1: really set you up financially, financially, Like it's insane. They've
Speaker 1: got this kind of only.
Speaker 2: If you're in the Creative fund already, Yeah, and.
Speaker 1: The creative fund, but like it's.
Speaker 2: I would make such an effort on TikTok if we
Speaker 2: had the creative fund. I think it's comucking mint.
Speaker 1: I think it is coming. When I kind of got
Speaker 1: into this around eleanor contrast, it gets so bad.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's terrible. The mum is aware, by the way,
Speaker 2: before anyone thinks that I'm a horrible person for the
Speaker 2: things that I've said, there is proof of her daughter
Speaker 2: on the dark web. Yeah, and she doesn't take the
Speaker 2: videos down or well they are all private now.
Speaker 1: Sorry, she's gone completely private now.
Speaker 2: Probably because she got threatened to be put in jail.
Speaker 1: When I was looking at this I because so many
Speaker 1: people on TikTok have done these like explaining the rent
Speaker 1: Alanor controversy. And I found this video from a creator
Speaker 1: whose mum was really obsessed with video taping her when
Speaker 1: she was little. And she said, how YouTube or the
Speaker 1: internet existed when she was little, she would have been
Speaker 1: rent Ellanoryeah and she would be filmed doing really innocent
Speaker 1: things and at Heado's take. And that's what she said,
Speaker 1: is like, that's what predators wants. They love the innocence
Speaker 1: of children. It doesn't even have to be anything. It's
Speaker 1: just doing normal things.
Speaker 2: Are that people are watching your children and doing disgusting things.
Speaker 1: Protect your kids. And she asked the question. She said,
Speaker 1: like after obviously finding the courage to tell her truth
Speaker 1: after thirty years, both of her parents are now deceased,
Speaker 1: she said, what would ren Eleanor's truth sound like in
Speaker 1: twenty years?
Speaker 2: You know that is so powerful. If I knew that
Speaker 2: my mum had pimped me out, knowing that I was
Speaker 2: being exploited, knowing that heads were doing things to my imagery.
Speaker 1: That's your person who's not protected you.
Speaker 2: I wasn't safe. I wasn't protected and that is the
Speaker 2: job of a parent.
Speaker 1: Exactly exactly.
Speaker 2: My sister is so innocent, kind of like me. I
Speaker 2: guess a few years ago and at the start of
Speaker 2: the year, I was away for a weekend and I
Speaker 2: opened TikTok, and obviously my sister's a contact, so if
Speaker 2: something she posts, it comes up first. And it was
Speaker 2: of puff eating a banana. You know, you go to
Speaker 2: Woolli's and yeah, yeah, and you get the free banana anyway,
Speaker 2: and it's the cute Like I understood why she pressed it.
Speaker 2: It's the cutest video. And it was like to the
Speaker 2: song of like this banana song and he's sitting there
Speaker 2: with these big virtualbly cheeks like eating this banana, so happy.
Speaker 2: And then I'm like messaging her, I'm like, take this
Speaker 2: video down, take this video down. And then I had
Speaker 2: to explain to her, which I then hated having to do,
Speaker 2: to explain to her why she had to.
Speaker 1: Because then you like ruined that innocence.
Speaker 2: I ruined that innocence of her because she then deleted
Speaker 2: everything from TikTok because she just got so upset by
Speaker 2: the thought like I ruined that innocence for her. I
Speaker 2: had to explain how sick some people are, so I
Speaker 2: had to explain to her how some people's minds were, like,
Speaker 2: I hate that.
Speaker 1: I hate that because there is such sick people in
Speaker 1: the world we even have to think like that.
Speaker 2: It's just it's awful, it really is.
Speaker 1: I really hope we've given you some food for thought
Speaker 1: on some of those extreme cases. But we don't want
Speaker 1: to be all dooming gloom. We might get into some
Speaker 1: research around how we can navigate sharing our kids responsibly
Speaker 1: and respectfully. I found a really balanced article on NPR
Speaker 1: titled why you should think twice before posting that cute
Speaker 1: photo of your kid online, and I'm going to link
Speaker 1: the full article in the show notes. In it, they
Speaker 1: interviewed this chick. This chick, she's actually a faculty member
Speaker 1: at Harvard Man. She specializes in children, family law, and technology,
Speaker 1: Leah Plunkett. She's also an author of Sharenthood, Why we
Speaker 1: should think before we talk about our kids online. So
Speaker 1: sharenthood kind of came from this term that has popped
Speaker 1: up in recent years called sharenting, which is obviously blending
Speaker 1: the two words sharing and parenting together, but it was
Speaker 1: coined to describe the practice of parents publicizing a large
Speaker 1: amount of potentially sensitive content about their often underage children
Speaker 1: on Internet platforms. They even had people who were like sharingters,
Speaker 1: who were like obsessed with sharing their kids online. And
Speaker 1: it's like something that people get diagnosed with anyway, that's
Speaker 1: a whole other rabbit hole.
Speaker 2: We could do like ten episodes it's in a role
Speaker 2: about this and still have something.
Speaker 1: Insane, honestly. So, she noted that the data that we
Speaker 1: share about our kids can actually make them really good
Speaker 1: targets for identity theft. A birthday photo, for example, might
Speaker 1: reveal a kid's name, age, and date of birth, information
Speaker 1: that someone could no private iniation, no private information. I agree.
Speaker 1: She then also highlighted the importance of understanding that other
Speaker 1: people don't need to have information about the ins and
Speaker 1: outs of your child's emotional and personal life. So it
Speaker 1: was a bit of a Q and A and I
Speaker 1: pulled out the most interesting answers. She was asked how
Speaker 1: do you model digital consent with your kids? She said,
Speaker 1: the conversation starts with very young kids. Explain what you're doing,
Speaker 1: why you're doing it, and where the image or video
Speaker 1: is going. You might say something like, hey, we're having
Speaker 1: a really great meal. We're using a recipe your grandfather
Speaker 1: sent us, I'm going to take a picture for him.
Speaker 1: Everyone smiled for grandpa. Giving the context, it's the same
Speaker 1: kind of way that we're told to narrate our kids' life.
Speaker 1: So they start to understand, because they do understand. That's
Speaker 1: how they're learning language. Right. So if we say to
Speaker 1: them we're taking this photo for grandpa, they send us
Speaker 1: a recipe, they're gonna say, grandpa photo. I like Grandpa,
Speaker 1: I'm okay with this photo. She also said, you could
Speaker 1: ask your kid at a pretty young age, are you
Speaker 1: okay with me taking a photo? Anyone not feeling up
Speaker 1: for it?
Speaker 2: Like that's what I do with lend Yeah exactly, he says,
Speaker 2: not what sneakly take them of him?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Have the bag said, I thought it was really
Speaker 1: interesting to ask someone like this this question. How do
Speaker 1: you avoid oversharing in the digital realm? And she said,
Speaker 1: since I started researching this topic, I adjusted my own
Speaker 1: personal compass to be very minimalist. She never really posts
Speaker 1: the kids on social media if she does really similar
Speaker 1: to u Kel, she doesn't post anything that would identify them,
Speaker 1: doesn't use full names, doesn't celebrate their birthday on social media,
Speaker 1: and doesn't show them standing in front of their school
Speaker 1: or anything like that.
Speaker 2: That is the one thing that I just can't deal with.
Speaker 2: How sorry, but stupid. Some people are huge public stupid.
Speaker 1: It's just not realized.
Speaker 2: No, if you're a public figure, it's your job to know.
Speaker 2: They literally do host their child in their school uniform
Speaker 2: with like the proper logo and everything.
Speaker 1: I know, what are you doing?
Speaker 2: You freak well?
Speaker 1: And then they know their name, they know they know
Speaker 1: what school they go to, say, know it subway, But
Speaker 1: they also know what they like, what they dislike. This
Speaker 1: is why, like all so weird little things that you
Speaker 1: put together can really help someone to be able to
Speaker 1: build basically a profile on your kid. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I guess all the informa I've put out there though,
Speaker 2: is just like to scare anyone off taking Lenny because
Speaker 2: they're like that child hates everything and he likes to
Speaker 2: have a big complaint. He really they would give him
Speaker 2: back within an hour, thank.
Speaker 1: God though, Like that's good.
Speaker 2: I'm just raped. She would rave with them for days,
Speaker 2: he would, and then she'd be like, oh mom, dad
Speaker 2: forgot about them?
Speaker 1: Who cares about them? What questions should we as parents
Speaker 1: ask ourselves before we hit post. Are you posting a
Speaker 1: picture of your child in any state of undress? If
Speaker 1: you are, please don't post it.
Speaker 2: But like, I don't understand why people put like smiley
Speaker 2: face emojis over little kids nipples, Like, why aren't they
Speaker 2: just nipples?
Speaker 1: Instagram makes you take the content down if there's any.
Speaker 2: Nipples, but they don't with men.
Speaker 1: I know this is why everyone's always like free the nipple.
Speaker 2: Wait, so women and kids can't get their nipples out
Speaker 2: only men.
Speaker 1: Are you sharing your child's location for name of data birth?
Speaker 1: If you are, think about whether that level of detail
Speaker 1: is necessary for your post. This one I thought was
Speaker 1: really good. If your parents shared a similar post about
Speaker 1: you at this age, how would you have felt about it.
Speaker 1: If the answer is that it would have really bothered you,
Speaker 1: take another minute to think about what you need from
Speaker 1: this post. So here's the bit that I really liked.
Speaker 1: What advice do you have for parents who often share
Speaker 1: photos and videos of their children and their lives on
Speaker 1: social media? Is it too late for them? She was
Speaker 1: so normal and nice in this response. I really appreciated it.
Speaker 1: I had the same reaction when I started researching all
Speaker 1: of this, And I'm here to tell you take a
Speaker 1: deep breath, don't panic. If you want to change, go
Speaker 1: back over your social media posts and take down what
Speaker 1: you're not feeling so sure about. Then makes private. Please
Speaker 1: don't be hard on yourselves. Since the dawn of time,
Speaker 1: parents have been making the best choices they can at
Speaker 1: any given moment and then later being like, maybe I'll
Speaker 1: do that differently going forward. I think that the good
Speaker 1: thing about having this conversation is that it's just another
Speaker 1: thing that we all need to kind of think about
Speaker 1: once in a while, have a conversation about maybe look
Speaker 1: at our socials and see how much we're posting. Maybe
Speaker 1: even see on stories, who's looking at your stories.
Speaker 2: Of your kids? Many things that you if you post
Speaker 2: something of your kid, make sure it doesn't have heaps
Speaker 2: of saves, because why would someone save that? Exactly weird.
Speaker 1: Also, there is that like close friends option, which is
Speaker 1: I think is such a good option.
Speaker 2: Like I use that a lot.
Speaker 1: I use that a lot whenever I post it because
Speaker 1: I use it for.
Speaker 2: Really basically nudes of me.
Speaker 1: But that is a really good feature too, Like if
Speaker 1: you you know someone stuff that you're not as worried
Speaker 1: about sharing, yeah, you can share it to people that
Speaker 1: you know it's going to see it. Because I even
Speaker 1: think about, like all the people on Facebook that I know,
Speaker 1: I don't know hardly any of them because it's I've
Speaker 1: been on that fucking platform for over a decade now.
Speaker 1: So I think sometimes you forget, even though you might
Speaker 1: only have like a smallish following or you're not a
Speaker 1: public figure, you forget who might follow you. So I
Speaker 1: think it's just good to do like a little wreki
Speaker 1: of who's watching your stuff. And then if you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: it might be like you can always mute your stories
Speaker 1: from other people as well. That's another thing that you
Speaker 1: can do to kind of curate who is able to
Speaker 1: have access to your kid online.
Speaker 2: I think that's such good advice and I really like
Speaker 2: that sort of balanced take on it because I do
Speaker 2: hate the judginess that we see online and it's always
Speaker 2: about women. Of course. Yeah, it's very victim blame me
Speaker 2: because it's like, at the end of.
Speaker 1: The day, let's get cranky at the pedos, Yeah, not
Speaker 1: the mums who mostly are just sharing a really benign
Speaker 1: photo of their kid that they don't they're not thinking
Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, Or let's get cranky at the social
Speaker 1: media platforms who don't have adequate protection in place exactly, Like,
Speaker 1: let's get crank at the right people instead of wasting
Speaker 1: so much energy ranting about children being posted online.
Speaker 2: Like, I just think people need to use their brain
Speaker 2: as we've sort of gone through, like don't share things
Speaker 2: like your kids' school or videos of them in the bath.
Speaker 2: But we also just can't always live in fear because
Speaker 2: of some fuckers. And it's also just really misogynistic. Like
Speaker 2: if there was a dad fluencer and he shares videos
Speaker 2: and photos of his kids, everyone would be like, it's
Speaker 2: such a good d Dad of the year over here.
Speaker 2: But if a mum does the same thing, she's exploding them.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's definitely gendered for sure.
Speaker 2: But yes, I just think this is a conversation that
Speaker 2: we will probably continue to have and hopefully it's given
Speaker 2: everyone listening at home a little bit of food for thought.
Speaker 2: Recommendations for the week, we're going to talk about mummies,
Speaker 2: Flip and house.
Speaker 1: We just love her so much. I really want to
Speaker 1: get her on.
Speaker 2: I want to get We've never asked, we should ask.
Speaker 1: But she would do it.
Speaker 2: My hope is I want to go out for a
Speaker 2: drink with her.
Speaker 1: I don't want to think we should do a little
Speaker 1: SSR trip if you will or were gonna go and
Speaker 1: meet her.
Speaker 2: Just go and meet it. We love her so much.
Speaker 2: Like she doesn't perform, She genuinely just seems like a
Speaker 2: really fun chick and a good mum. Yeah, I slid
Speaker 2: into a dams. I told you this before.
Speaker 1: What did you say?
Speaker 2: I love you so much. I think you're so great.
Speaker 2: You made me laugh out loud, Like I just send
Speaker 2: a nice message to say how much I love to She's.
Speaker 1: The only vlogger that I've ever watched.
Speaker 2: She's great. You're even more obsessed with her than me.
Speaker 2: You watch everything.
Speaker 1: I like it's annoying because I'm like, put more videos out,
Speaker 1: but like to spend time.
Speaker 2: With your kids. Yeah. Sometimes I go to watch something
Speaker 2: and be like key reseals is like, dear Lord, she
Speaker 2: only just posted it and keys at home and notifications. Okay,
Speaker 2: dear Lord. All right, Well that's all the time we
Speaker 2: have for today.
Speaker 1: We'll link her profile in our show notes.
Speaker 2: Share the pod on your socials please and let us
Speaker 2: know what you think and what you would like to
Speaker 2: hear about this season.
Speaker 1: Don't forget to tag us on socials at Ky Reese,
Speaker 1: at Kelly Underscore, M Karen and at EESSR dot PD.
Speaker 2: This episode was produced by.
Speaker 1: Us your Lovely host Key Resells and Kelly Mkaren, with
Speaker 1: audio production by the Lovely Madeline Joannu. Will be in
Speaker 1: your ears next week. She is bye.