Speaker 1: From MoMA Mia.
Speaker 2: Welcome to The Spill, your daily pop culture fixed. I'm
Speaker 2: Lowa Brodnick and I'm Tina Burth. And if you said
Speaker 2: a giddiness to at least the top part of the
Speaker 2: pond is because we haven't seen each other in eleven days.
Speaker 1: Wow, almost our longest break ever. I know, you know
Speaker 1: we had a full month earlier this day. So we
Speaker 1: had a crossover where you went away and I went away. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is what the people want to hear.
Speaker 2: But yes, yes, I had been away for away last
Speaker 2: week off the spill for real to be back.
Speaker 1: Every time I saw something.
Speaker 2: Pop up, I was like, oh, I want to be
Speaker 2: on the pod, but I was living my Hannah Montana life.
Speaker 1: We're here, I'm you.
Speaker 2: Know, a celebrity podcast, so who only goes to events
Speaker 2: and drinks champagne and interview celebrities and my other life
Speaker 2: in suburban Queensland. I am in full time Auntie, Yes,
Speaker 2: which is what I was doing last week.
Speaker 1: But thrill to be back.
Speaker 2: Lots to say so coming up on the show today,
Speaker 2: we are going to be discussing the disturbing pros Hilton
Speaker 2: video that was released a couple of days ago.
Speaker 1: The incident, what followed, the coverage, and just a bit
Speaker 1: about for people who are not even aware of who
Speaker 1: pros Hilton is just the way he has kind of
Speaker 1: like shaped culture for better or for worse, mostly for worse,
Speaker 1: as he.
Speaker 2: Has admitted to yes over the years. But it has
Speaker 2: become this huge kind of cultural conversation about how we
Speaker 2: treat someone going through such a kind of public incident
Speaker 2: as he has. So we're going to get into that,
Speaker 2: plus in a less important but we know you guys
Speaker 2: want to hear about this the Martha Stuart verse Megan
Speaker 2: Markle feud, which isn't even a feud, but I'll get
Speaker 2: into how this is blown up to look like a
Speaker 2: feud and how this happens to Martha all the time
Speaker 2: with other famous celebrities who have cooking shows i e.
Speaker 2: Or cooking you know ventures, i e. Blakel Lively and
Speaker 2: Gwyn with Paltrow, even Garten to Twine. Yay, no bad,
Speaker 2: that's real beef. That's not that's not made up beef.
Speaker 2: That's a real fight. But first, you have some some
Speaker 2: sexy news for us. I hope I need to hear
Speaker 2: some sexy news. I have some sexy news at we
Speaker 2: should make it a segment. It's like Tina Sexy Teena's
Speaker 2: Sexy News. Sexy Corner sounds even better. That sounds actually,
Speaker 2: I don't like that at all. I take it back, Iris.
Speaker 2: That sounds like we might get a call from HR
Speaker 2: about what we've done to the studio.
Speaker 1: Yeah, something bad anyway. Heated Rivalry Season two we have
Speaker 1: a huge announcement that came over the weekend. So they
Speaker 1: have officially started production in Canada. Connis Story and Hudson
Speaker 1: Williams have been pictured back on set. We've got more details.
Speaker 1: We know that Francois Oh No, we'll be back as
Speaker 1: Scott and so we'll cap. So we know that we
Speaker 1: know our four divas are going to be back. And
Speaker 1: for those who've forgotten or who never knew he did,
Speaker 1: Rivalry huge deal sensation and based on Rachel Reid's series
Speaker 1: of novels, and each novel kind of focuses on a
Speaker 1: different couple, sort of like the Off Campus book series,
Speaker 1: like the Bridgeton book series, but Heated Rivalry season one
Speaker 1: chose to focus on the second book, which was Ilia
Speaker 1: Rosanov and Shane Hollander, and that worked out super well.
Speaker 2: And that worked out real well, and that was the
Speaker 2: reason that Kip and Scott were so involved and got
Speaker 2: so much screen time and kind of got their own
Speaker 2: episode and had that amazing moment in episode five. I
Speaker 2: have the greatest episodes of television busiest scene of twenty
Speaker 2: five five, Yeah, buzziest in twenty twenty five, but also
Speaker 2: wanted to just the best standalone episodes of TV for
Speaker 2: at least the last ten years. I feel very safe
Speaker 2: saying that I support that. Yeah, I watch it all
Speaker 2: the time. I wanted to feel alive.
Speaker 1: So that's why they got such a big part in
Speaker 1: that season is their book was the first book, and
Speaker 1: then Elier and Shane with a second book. But what
Speaker 1: we already know is that season two of the show
Speaker 1: is still going to keep Ilier and Shane as the
Speaker 1: main characters. So often with these shows like an off
Speaker 1: Campus or a Bridgeton, or like where there's a standalone,
Speaker 1: interconnected book series, each season we'll focus on a new
Speaker 1: kind of lead couple. But Jacob Teerney, the creator of
Speaker 1: the TV series, has said that we're going to keep
Speaker 1: the focus on Ilia and Shane. Thank God.
Speaker 2: I think that's because the show was so good about
Speaker 2: their relationship, and it didn't feel like it felt different
Speaker 2: to Off Campus, where like the central relationship and that
Speaker 2: felt like it had a really strong beginning, middle, and end,
Speaker 2: and then you're so ready to kind of move on
Speaker 2: to focusing on a new couple while keeping that other couple.
Speaker 1: In the background.
Speaker 2: Ye, whereas with Shane and Ilia, it ended on such
Speaker 2: a kind of moment of like, oh my god, I
Speaker 2: just need to know where this couple is going.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Shane and Ilia are still like really prominent
Speaker 1: characters in all the other books. They still like their
Speaker 1: storyline does continue just alongside all of these other couples,
Speaker 1: but instead they'll still be our front and center duo,
Speaker 1: and we're going to meet some new people along the way. Yes.
Speaker 1: So the second season is going to focus on two books,
Speaker 1: The Long Game and role Model. So over the weekend
Speaker 1: it was announced that the two characters from role Model
Speaker 1: have been cast. They're joining the show. So Justice Smith
Speaker 1: and Charlie Gillespie have been cast in season two and
Speaker 1: they are playing Harris Drover and Troy Barrett, respectively. So
Speaker 1: that's the couple from role Model, Justice Smith. People might
Speaker 1: recognize from Dungeons and Dragons, Jurassic world. I saw the
Speaker 1: TV glow and Charlie has been in Julie and the Phantoms.
Speaker 1: Did you watch that? No? But yeah, it was like
Speaker 1: this Netflix series that just popped absolutely off. And he's
Speaker 1: also got a really funny role in One Night Only,
Speaker 1: which comes out this week. Yes, in Callum Turner's movie.
Speaker 1: So they're both. It's kind of more prominent than the
Speaker 1: guys were in season one. Yes, and obviously they're gonna
Speaker 1: they're gonna blow up now in a completely different way,
Speaker 1: in a completely in a completely different way. So in
Speaker 1: the book, just quickly, it is about Troy Barrett, who
Speaker 1: is a very closeted hockey player and he's on Ilia
Speaker 1: Rosanov's team. But by the time we get to their book,
Speaker 1: this thing has happened, where like Ilia has moved to
Speaker 1: a shitty team in Ottawa just so he can be
Speaker 1: closer to Shane. We don't know how it's going to play,
Speaker 1: if it's going to be the same, hopefully be closer
Speaker 1: to Shane. I have books. Yeah, I'm waiting for the show. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we don't know if that's going to happen or not,
Speaker 1: you know, like we'll see. But the point is Troy
Speaker 1: is like an Illi a teammate, and Troy ends up
Speaker 1: on this shitty team as well because of an incident
Speaker 1: with his own team. And he's a deeply closeted player
Speaker 1: who's kind of like his image is in need of
Speaker 1: a rehab, even though his image is in need of
Speaker 1: a rehab because he calls out another player for sexual
Speaker 1: assault and somehow he's the one in trouble anyway. Yeah,
Speaker 1: something to think about, some NHL something to think about.
Speaker 1: But so you're gonna love this so much. Troy ends
Speaker 1: up on the Ottawa team. His fame needs to be rebuilt,
Speaker 1: his identity all of so enter Harris, who is like
Speaker 1: a beautiful football of sunshine and love and he's the
Speaker 1: social media manager. Oh I do love that. I love
Speaker 1: that a lot. Yeah, I knew you'd love that. And
Speaker 1: you know, the creators have said, like Rachel Reid gave
Speaker 1: us two beautifully layered characters in Harris and Troy, who
Speaker 1: you can't help but root for. And they said, from
Speaker 1: the start of the casting process, we knew we were
Speaker 1: looking for actors who could create something truly special and
Speaker 1: bring that same depth and heart to the screen. So
Speaker 1: they said, they immediately connected and they had the core
Speaker 1: of these characters.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, what are people thinking about this casting?
Speaker 2: Because what I know about the heated rivalry fandom, I'm
Speaker 2: sure everyone was very chill about this, very calm.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they didn't say anything. They were like, well,
Speaker 1: wait till the show comes out. No, I would say
Speaker 1: a lot of fans were very excited. Obviously, there was
Speaker 1: like an overwhelming like thrill and people Charlie's very active
Speaker 1: on TikTok, which I think is obviously. The difference this
Speaker 1: time around is the show is so huge already and
Speaker 1: so the influx on these actors counts and everything has
Speaker 1: been really huge, whereas last time it was like, yes,
Speaker 1: there was the built in BookTok fan base, but the
Speaker 1: rest of the world wasn't watching, and now everyone is,
Speaker 1: so there's been a lot of excitement. Charlie's definitely gotten
Speaker 1: more of the positive side of the fandom reaction, and
Speaker 1: then Justice has not. Unfortunately, one of the reasons that
Speaker 1: people are upset is that they think the character of
Speaker 1: Harris should have been played by a plus size actor
Speaker 1: or a bigger actor, because in the book the character
Speaker 1: is described in a few different terms, but those are stocky,
Speaker 1: soft broad and in one part a little pudgy, and
Speaker 1: he's a character who's sort of as the social media manager.
Speaker 1: I think there's like a scene where he's like comparing
Speaker 1: himself to you know, all the men around him and
Speaker 1: everything like that, and like physically and beautifully doesn't think
Speaker 1: he's as amazing as them. But it's not a case
Speaker 1: of him being like super insecure about his weight or
Speaker 1: that being a huge thing. It's more just that he's
Speaker 1: described in these terms. So a lot of fans wanted
Speaker 1: to see a plus size actor in the role, and
Speaker 1: Justin Smith is not a plus size actor. There's been
Speaker 1: a lot of vitriol directed his way about the fact
Speaker 1: that he was cast. Oh, I hate that, and I
Speaker 1: do hate that. I think you can be upset about
Speaker 1: some like a representation that you wanted to see and
Speaker 1: that you feel like you were hopeful to see on
Speaker 1: your screen and you didn't get. You can be upset
Speaker 1: about that, But I don't think he deserves to bear
Speaker 1: the brunt of the criticism. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: I think attacking the actor is never the way to
Speaker 2: go unless they're like it's a huge kind of like
Speaker 2: a movie star and they've taken on a role that
Speaker 2: they shouldn't have played because it's you know, like inappropriately, yeah,
Speaker 2: inappropriate or something like that, and then like they're really
Speaker 2: in control of the situation.
Speaker 1: You can kind of hold them to account.
Speaker 2: But I think an actor taking a job on like
Speaker 2: a hip show and it just being different to the
Speaker 2: book is on them, it's on the show creators. That
Speaker 2: does really make me sad, though, because that would have
Speaker 2: been such a groundbreaking, like it shouldn't be ground ranking,
Speaker 2: but it would have been iconic moment. It would have
Speaker 2: been this incredible representation and so important for like one
Speaker 2: of the biggest shows in the world to have sized
Speaker 2: inclusivity as part of the show. When we're seeing that
Speaker 2: disappearing from not that it was ever really there, but
Speaker 2: there was like a thought that we were moving towards
Speaker 2: a little bit, and now like it's just completely vanished
Speaker 2: from TV shows, movies, magazines, mostly catwalks. Magazine covers every
Speaker 2: kind of representation you can think of. Yeah, and I
Speaker 2: just thought that would have been really lovely and also
Speaker 2: just like that seems like a really important plot point
Speaker 2: from the book about how their relationship develops and how
Speaker 2: that character thinks.
Speaker 1: Well, even the fans are divided though on that front, right, So,
Speaker 1: I think I completely agree with you. It would be
Speaker 1: great to see a bigger body on screen playing a
Speaker 1: sexy character, a character who's romantically involved and more importantly
Speaker 1: than just like representation, also representation without it being the
Speaker 1: sole focus exactly. It's not just the only insecure Like
Speaker 1: he has insecurities in the book. He has confidence issues
Speaker 1: in the book, and even like fans of the book
Speaker 1: are arguing in comment sections at the moment about whether
Speaker 1: or not he's insecure about his body, with a lot
Speaker 1: saying no, he's not. His weight's never a concern for him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And that would have been a great thing to see
Speaker 1: on screen, you know, a bigger body in sexy scenes.
Speaker 2: Without it being like, oh but I'm insecure, without it
Speaker 2: being like this kind of this whole like I'm making overcame,
Speaker 2: I'm making.
Speaker 1: A state man. Like that's all I want to see
Speaker 1: is just all different bodies, ages, like every different spectrum
Speaker 1: on screen at like it not always being yeah, the
Speaker 1: central point of the story. One of my favorite comments
Speaker 1: that I saw was someone who said, as a pudge,
Speaker 1: I'm sad he's not a pudg. Yeah, It's like and
Speaker 1: I feel that I get it. Rachel Reid has put
Speaker 1: up a statement basically saying, thinking about all the people
Speaker 1: last summer who told me casting for Ilier and Shame
Speaker 1: was wrong and bad, with like a photo of herself
Speaker 1: kind of side eyeing. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: There was so much backlash from like people who read
Speaker 2: the books about those characters not being right and people
Speaker 2: like this is never going to work, It's not going
Speaker 2: to translate to TV. And then it became this kind
Speaker 2: of like cultural movement across the world, this TV show. Yeah,
Speaker 2: were so wrapped up in it. Yeah, and they became superstars. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And like again, you can be disappointed. You wanted to see,
Speaker 2: you know, an actor who was in a bigger body.
Speaker 2: Hopefully that's something we get to see down the line.
Speaker 2: In Heeded Rivalry, It's totally fair to criticize the casting,
Speaker 2: just criticize the actor.
Speaker 1: In my opinion, yes, same. I think he is very
Speaker 1: excited and should do an amazing job. And he did
Speaker 1: share a statement about how moved hears by the support
Speaker 1: from the fans to have welcomed him, and this is
Speaker 1: why I feel for him. Like already he's had to
Speaker 1: put out a statement that addresses the backlash and it's
Speaker 1: like it just was announced. It feels a bit like
Speaker 1: how Francois has had to constantly deal with a lot
Speaker 1: of hate from the heated rivalry fans. But he said
Speaker 1: thank you to the fans who already feel a responsibility
Speaker 1: to protect me. I am honored to play a character
Speaker 1: you all care about deeply, and I promise I will
Speaker 1: take good care of him if you give me the chance.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, let's give that poor boy. Let's give Justice
Speaker 1: a chance.
Speaker 2: He's an excellent actor and I am very excited to
Speaker 2: see the new season. So quite a disturbing news story
Speaker 2: has been doing the rounds the last couple of days.
Speaker 2: And it all started when Perez Hilton, who is a
Speaker 2: really well known ies some media personality blogger, has been around.
Speaker 1: Since two thousand and four.
Speaker 2: I think I think he launched his site Perez Hilton
Speaker 2: like officially in two thousand and five. It was posting
Speaker 2: in two thousand and four. And if you are on
Speaker 2: the Internet back in those days and the fledgling Internet
Speaker 2: taboid days, interested in like celebrity gossip or news, even
Speaker 2: in like the smallest then pros, Hilton was a big
Speaker 2: part of your day, checking it, reading the stories, looking
Speaker 2: at the photos horrendous as some of them were, and
Speaker 2: then he went on to become a celebrity in his
Speaker 2: own right off the back.
Speaker 1: Of that, and especially because it was at a point where, yes,
Speaker 1: you could get you know, a lot of magazines were
Speaker 1: talking about the same topics or publishing similar pictures, But
Speaker 1: it was the speed of proz Hilton that I think
Speaker 1: made it take off so much, because not to get
Speaker 1: to a magazine verst digital, but I do think a
Speaker 1: lot of magazines were still resisting their online presence. Oh
Speaker 1: and so he swooped in and took over in a
Speaker 1: way what those websites could have been for a period
Speaker 1: of time. And it's so crazy because we were teenagers
Speaker 1: at the time, so I'm not sure what your prose
Speaker 1: Hilton thing was like, but I'm like, you could just
Speaker 1: go into like our family computer in the living room
Speaker 1: and like log onto prose Hilton and just see all
Speaker 1: this even crazy things that magazines wouldn't print about celebrities
Speaker 1: with like gossip, and then they would like fire back
Speaker 1: at him, and it was a whole kind of It
Speaker 1: was a real moment in the digital age, and like
Speaker 1: it really went on to shape how online out that
Speaker 1: lets and tabloids like spoke about celebrities and how like
Speaker 1: hunting them became a bit of a sport, and like
Speaker 1: how we talked about them and who could have the
Speaker 1: most scandalous thing to say? And yeah, I never really
Speaker 1: read it because I didn't have that much access to
Speaker 1: the family computer at the time. That she that's so
Speaker 1: good parenting. But I do remember the discourse surrounding it
Speaker 1: more so than anything like and as I became more
Speaker 1: of a teenagers, he got more and more and more controversial.
Speaker 1: That's when I started to know more about it. Oh,
Speaker 1: absolutely story. And he's still been in the mix so much.
Speaker 1: I mean obviously, like the like internet and online culture
Speaker 1: has changed so much. There's so many different kind of
Speaker 1: outlets that he's been diluted. So I don't think he
Speaker 1: had like, especially in the last years, prose Hilton has
Speaker 1: the kind of power than he used to have. But
Speaker 1: he's still especially everywhere, especially on TikTok and platforms like that,
Speaker 1: which is almost more immediate than his blog was. Was
Speaker 1: still covering a lot of celebrity news, celebrity beefs, all
Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. Yeah, I mean getting in celebrity beefs.
Speaker 1: So last week a very disturbing video was posted to
Speaker 1: prose Hilton's TikTok account where and I'm going to get
Speaker 1: into the video too much because I don't think we
Speaker 1: need to sort of get into the details of it.
Speaker 1: It wasn't really upsetting.
Speaker 2: Also, the hard thing about it was that when TikTok
Speaker 2: was commented that it was this live stream was happening
Speaker 2: there were Their official statement was there were a few
Speaker 2: glitches with the team, like trying to get it down,
Speaker 2: getting it taken down. But the thing is with anything
Speaker 2: on the internet, like even though they took it down
Speaker 2: and they took down pres Hilton's account, obviously people recorded
Speaker 2: it and cut it up into snippets and post it everywhere.
Speaker 2: And so that means that so many people I know
Speaker 2: have just been like doing the good old TikTok Instagram
Speaker 2: scroll looking at you know, cooking videos and stuff, and
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, this pres Hilton video pops up,
Speaker 2: and so you kind of can't hide from it.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people unwillingly obviously had this
Speaker 1: content served up to them. At the moment that I
Speaker 1: saw his name treading on Twitter, and like red what
Speaker 1: it had happened. I just didn't look at social media
Speaker 1: if the rest of the day because I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't I know it's.
Speaker 2: Going to come up, and I don't want to. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you don't want to see it. So in the video
Speaker 2: it's prose Hilton seemingly covered in blood and exhibiting signs
Speaker 2: of distress, holding a sharp object. Very disturbing. As soon
Speaker 2: as they saw that, people started calling. So he lives
Speaker 2: in Miami, he has relocated. He used to live in
Speaker 2: La He relocated there with his three children to be
Speaker 2: closer to family, and apparently this is up on his website.
Speaker 2: His family put up a statement saying just before the
Speaker 2: live stream incident happened, Perez's three children, his niece, and
Speaker 2: his sister wall in the home and it became What
Speaker 2: the family wrote was when it became clear that Pees
Speaker 2: was experiencing a severe mental health crisis and harming himself,
Speaker 2: they immediately fled to protect the children from witnessing any
Speaker 2: further trauma. After that, the Miami Sheriff's Office was contacted
Speaker 2: and they have confirmed that they received multiple calls regarding
Speaker 2: the live streaming acts of sealth harm, sent people over
Speaker 2: and he's been taken into hospital care and a facility
Speaker 2: where his family put out a statement saying that he's
Speaker 2: going to require surgery. They also are really clear he
Speaker 2: has communicating because I think a few outlets were sort
Speaker 2: of saying like they had spoken to him.
Speaker 1: They haven't.
Speaker 2: They said the children are in care. They've asked people
Speaker 2: to stop camping outside of his house trying to get
Speaker 2: photos of his children, and it's become this medius media friend.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So they said that any statements being given
Speaker 1: to the media are not true, and they asked for privacy,
Speaker 1: particularly for his children. So as part of their statement,
Speaker 1: they said, there is absolutely no reason for members of
Speaker 1: the media or the public to remain outside the family home.
Speaker 1: We respectfully ask you to stop following family and cease
Speaker 1: photographing Perez's children. We also ask photo agencies not to purchase, publish,
Speaker 1: or distribute any photographs of the children that may have
Speaker 1: been taken. And they highlighted that for more than a decade,
Speaker 1: Perez Hilton has maintained a no Kid's policy of not
Speaker 1: publishing photos of children unless they are attending a public
Speaker 1: event or a family has chosen to make them public.
Speaker 1: So they made it a point to specifically mention his
Speaker 1: own policy on his site and asked people to stop
Speaker 1: photographing his children at this time and actually being the
Speaker 1: conversation and this kind of like push pull over Perez Hilton,
Speaker 1: and because he's a public figure and has been for
Speaker 1: so long, there's a lot of really intense conversation of
Speaker 1: what can be shared, what can be said since this
Speaker 1: story surfaced and has been like such a big story
Speaker 1: in the media for the last couple of days. So
Speaker 1: if anyone who's not across Perez Hilton, which is so
Speaker 1: crazy because I don't really remember a time before for
Speaker 1: I like, Perez Hilton for me has just always been
Speaker 1: this huge figure for better or for worse, in celebrity culture.
Speaker 1: His real name is Mario Levandina, but obviously Perez Hilton
Speaker 1: is a play on Paris Hilton, who, especially when his
Speaker 1: blog first launched back in two thousand and five, was
Speaker 1: the like girl of the moment, TV shows, music books, party,
Speaker 1: clothing lines, cover of every magazine.
Speaker 2: Like Paris Hilton was that the biggest star in the world.
Speaker 2: Isn't that crazy? No, it's all crazy. She's still pretty
Speaker 2: famous now, but yeah, yeah, again, just it was that
Speaker 2: perfect kind of storm of tabloid culture. Girls and pres
Speaker 2: Hilton blog became, as we were saying, such an online
Speaker 2: sensation because he pushed the envelope in such an extreme way.
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of people I remember being
Speaker 2: like like as like a teen, like like horrified looking
Speaker 2: at it, but also couldn't believe that was being stuff
Speaker 2: like that was being said. So you're almost looking at
Speaker 2: it in a horrified fascination because up until then I
Speaker 2: had only ever seen like celebrity coverage that was very
Speaker 2: much like kind of like bowing at the altar of celebrity.
Speaker 1: Like they're so beautiful.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, they're so famous, They're so perfect, especially like
Speaker 2: these you know, young women and stuff. And then all
Speaker 2: of a sudden, there was this outlet that was posting
Speaker 2: these crazy tabloid photos that you could see go up
Speaker 2: in real time, and was posting these scandals at other places,
Speaker 2: all these allegations that other places wouldn't run or ran
Speaker 2: like weeks later because they were magazines. And also he
Speaker 2: had a very like distinct voice, and it was really crude,
Speaker 2: like you know, he like draw penises over people's faces
Speaker 2: and stuff like that was really crude. But he was
Speaker 2: just in the right moment of the Internet taking off
Speaker 2: to build this huge following.
Speaker 1: And I mean, I'm not comparing this, like you just said,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of crudeness in some headlines and things
Speaker 1: like that that were done that cross lines, for sure,
Speaker 1: But I would almost compare it to the way that
Speaker 1: jumoir has risen now with inst Oh yeah, yeah, It's
Speaker 1: not the same in terms of the kinds of content
Speaker 1: they're producing like like for like, but it is still
Speaker 1: what jumoir is putting up is very invasive, very intense
Speaker 1: content that is often like people stalking celebrities and taking
Speaker 1: pictures and sending them to jumoir or Jumoir reporting like
Speaker 1: fake information all of the time, and people taking it
Speaker 1: as fact. The same sort of thing happened with Perez Hilton,
Speaker 1: where it did have this like online frenzy of I guess,
Speaker 1: like you said more eloquently, more eloquently than I could of,
Speaker 1: like people suddenly having access to celebs in a way
Speaker 1: they've never had it before. Absolutely, like you weren't just
Speaker 1: waiting for these glossy red carpet photos. It's like the
Speaker 1: same way you're right as people send like photos of
Speaker 1: like a celeb sitting at a restaurant into doumoin now
Speaker 1: and we see that it was the same thing, like
Speaker 1: people would say and tips to pres Hilton, they would
Speaker 1: send photos and videos, and then celebrities started really knowing
Speaker 1: who he was, yes and calling him out. So then
Speaker 1: he would be having these big public back and forth
Speaker 1: with these huge celebrities, which only added to his fame.
Speaker 1: And one of the things interesting is like looking into
Speaker 1: this obviously in light of everything that's happened, and kind
Speaker 1: of being reminded of how he all started. He was
Speaker 1: working from a cafe when he first launched the blog,
Speaker 1: and celebrities used to go to the cafe to give
Speaker 1: him tips. Yeah, he's spoken about that. There's a great
Speaker 1: BBC profile on like him and his memoir that he
Speaker 1: released I think twenty twenty or twenty twenty one, But
Speaker 1: celebs like Lindsay Lohan used to tell him things about
Speaker 1: themselves in order to get published. He was friends with
Speaker 1: Lady Gaga and she was on the rise. He after
Speaker 1: having a pretty problematic history with Miley Cyrus, also like
Speaker 1: hung out with her backstage at fashion shows, like he
Speaker 1: was asking the awards that they were all at. He
Speaker 1: was dming all of the celebrities, not that that excuses
Speaker 1: anything by any means, but it was a very I
Speaker 1: think weird and toxic relationship that a lot of stars
Speaker 1: had with him and that he had with them, and
Speaker 1: like he almost I guess he held all the power
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, yeah, of what he could
Speaker 1: and couldn't publish about someone or how you yeah someone.
Speaker 2: And also I think there was like kind of like again,
Speaker 2: people who had that tabloid frenzy around them became stars
Speaker 2: like a Nicole rich to you or something like that,
Speaker 2: and then so it was kind of seen as like
Speaker 2: almost like a cachet or like a dangerous thing for
Speaker 2: these women to hang out with this man who had
Speaker 2: become a huge superstar, despite the fact that you could
Speaker 2: click onto his website the next day and they could
Speaker 2: also be terrible things about them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean he's apologized. He's apologized for a
Speaker 1: lot of things since, but one of the things he
Speaker 1: apologized for was coming up with cruel nicknames for people.
Speaker 1: And he started having nicknames for Christina Aguilera when Lady
Speaker 1: Gaga was coming up, because he was trying to create
Speaker 1: a narrative that like Christina Aguilera was done, like she
Speaker 1: was finished and Lady Gaga was the cool new pop girl.
Speaker 1: And then he and Lady Gaga had a falling out
Speaker 1: at some point and she alleged that she was a
Speaker 1: target of bullying and stalking by Perez. There were so
Speaker 1: many major things that he obviously did that caused a
Speaker 1: lot of headline, but I think one of the biggest
Speaker 1: things was the way he spoke about and treated Britney
Speaker 1: Spears in particular. Yes, yes, so that was one of
Speaker 1: his main targets. And in twenty twenty one he like
Speaker 1: apologized when that Framing Britney Spears documentary came out, and
Speaker 1: he said it I didn't lead with empathy and compassion,
Speaker 1: and thankfully it seems like most people now are understanding
Speaker 1: the severity of her situation. And I absolutely apologize and
Speaker 1: carry deep shame and regret because he was.
Speaker 2: I mean, the stuff he would write about Britney, especially
Speaker 2: when she was going through her like very public mental
Speaker 2: health breakdown, was calling her a terrible mother, calling her dangerous,
Speaker 2: calling her all these terrible things like yeah, posting his
Speaker 2: awful photos of her. But also it sounds outrageous now,
Speaker 2: but it's so weird to look back and think at
Speaker 2: the time it didn't feel outrageous because also that's what
Speaker 2: everyone was saying about excusing him in any way, but
Speaker 2: like it sounds crazy now, Yeah, but that everyone would
Speaker 2: read his site and be.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, she is a terrible mother, she is crazy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was part of like this really vitriolic moment and
Speaker 1: like me Lacunas actually and he still goes up against
Speaker 1: me Lacunas on this topic. But she's like he basically
Speaker 1: invented the scept of trolling and that she thinks it
Speaker 1: didn't really exist or didn't experience it in Hollywood until
Speaker 1: he came along. Yeah, which I think is interesting. Is interesting,
Speaker 1: isn't it, because you know, a lot of the things
Speaker 1: he's accused of doing, Like so, following the tragic death
Speaker 1: of Heath Ledger, he made t shirts saying it should
Speaker 1: have been Brittany. Yeah, he's that horrifying stuff. And I
Speaker 1: remember people just thinking that was like the funniest thing ever. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And people, you know, were slut shaming young women in Hollywood,
Speaker 1: like Miley Cyrus and Taylor Mumson who both spoken about
Speaker 1: having upskirt photos taken of them and then published on
Speaker 1: his website. When they were miners. He was included in
Speaker 1: Colin Farrell's two thousand and five sex tape lawsuit after
Speaker 1: allegedly posting the link to Colin Farrell's sex tape on
Speaker 1: his website. He was sued by Universal City Studios for
Speaker 1: posting naked photos of Jennifer Aniston taken from unreleased footage
Speaker 1: from the set of The Breakup. So there were a
Speaker 1: lot of things obviously that he was accused of doing.
Speaker 1: And he and you know, Iland Baldwin was another I
Speaker 1: think young star or like young child of stars, this
Speaker 1: daughter of Alec Baldwin, who I guess felt very victi
Speaker 1: by what he did to her and how he spoke
Speaker 1: about her in the press.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he would, Yeah, his coverage of Ireland Baldwin, who
Speaker 2: really grew. I mean, she's she's out of the spotlight
Speaker 2: now she does publicly post.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But she was the daughter of Alec Baldwin and Kim Basinger,
Speaker 2: and obviously they're this huge like celebrity, old school Hollywood
Speaker 2: power couple. Island was always at events with them and things,
Speaker 2: and he would write terrible things about her, that she
Speaker 2: was ugly, that she was fat, she was ChIL would yeah,
Speaker 2: and she was like a tiny child, and he did
Speaker 2: that all through her teen years, Like he would post
Speaker 2: pat photos of her and just point out all the
Speaker 2: things that were wrong with her body. If other children
Speaker 2: like he didn't they were pretty like the offspring of celebrities,
Speaker 2: he would like kind of like compare them to Island Baldwin,
Speaker 2: like this huge campaign against this like basically basically like
Speaker 2: teenager who was just existing alongside her famous parents.
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, he's spoken at length about
Speaker 1: how he now regrets a lot of the things he did.
Speaker 1: He hasn't specifically apologized for much beyond Britney speech, but
Speaker 1: he's more so broadly said I've tried change, you know,
Speaker 1: who I am as a person. He released a book
Speaker 1: called TMI, My Life in Scandal, and in that he
Speaker 1: wrote he admitted like he was super petty to Ariana
Speaker 1: Grande for years just because when she was looking for
Speaker 1: a manager, he was interested and she didn't pick him.
Speaker 1: So he was like, so I would write really mean
Speaker 1: stuff about her because I just didn't like that she
Speaker 1: did that.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, a lot of his stuff was just very petty.
Speaker 2: But I also think like and not excusing any of
Speaker 2: his behavior because like even even as a teen, like
Speaker 2: logging onto his website, I could look at him be
Speaker 2: like this is this isn't right? Yeah, but he was
Speaker 2: really molding or following just the wave of where we
Speaker 2: were as a society, of how we were consuming content.
Speaker 2: Like yeah, the first wave of him tearing down Britney
Speaker 2: Spears and making fun of her, calling on Christina Aguilera's body,
Speaker 2: even the kind of beef with Lady Gaga, which came
Speaker 2: later a way, he didn't even send her a photo
Speaker 2: of her in a wheelchair wheelchair after she'd had I
Speaker 2: think it was her leg yeah, yeah, and it was
Speaker 2: like he compared her to Madonna in this weird photo
Speaker 2: he sent her.
Speaker 1: I think Madonna had a gun in the picture, yeah,
Speaker 1: and all this kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: So a lot of it was just kind of like
Speaker 2: meeting the internet kind of where it was and pushing
Speaker 2: it further. But like people were so hungryly consuming that content.
Speaker 2: It's like he couldn't put up enough to keep up
Speaker 2: with how much people wanted this kind of scandalous downfall
Speaker 2: of celebrity.
Speaker 1: He was incredibly successful. People were willing participants in what
Speaker 1: he was doing.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and then like you know, there was like merch
Speaker 2: and like people again were buying his book.
Speaker 1: Then he became a TV star himself.
Speaker 2: He would go on things like Big Brother, He would
Speaker 2: do guest appearances on TV shows. He would be invited
Speaker 2: to walk red carpets alongside people like you know, yeah.
Speaker 1: Like people he'd cyber bullied, like really cyrus. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: went to fashion shows together.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it was this whole kind of like craziness
Speaker 2: of watching the internet evolve. And then when he when
Speaker 2: he started apologizing for things, it was around the kind
Speaker 2: of like free Britney movement. Yeah, we're reframing things. Let's
Speaker 2: look back at what happened at Paris Hilton with her abuse,
Speaker 2: Let's look at this, Let's look at how women were treated.
Speaker 2: And it's kind of like he I know, he says
Speaker 2: that he was that's what he felt, but from just
Speaker 2: watching it through like a commentator lens, it felt like
Speaker 2: more so he was just adjusting himself to public, to
Speaker 2: the mom yeah exactly, to public scrutiny and sort of
Speaker 2: seeing where the next wave was. And he was like, oh,
Speaker 2: it's kind of fallen out of fashion now to make
Speaker 2: fun of Britney Spears and other celebrities. So now I'm
Speaker 2: going to go the other way and apologize. And for
Speaker 2: a while, especially in the last like maybe five or
Speaker 2: six years, I do feel like he was trying to
Speaker 2: sort of rebrand himself and he was looking for those
Speaker 2: like reaching out for those celebrity friendships, and they kind
Speaker 2: of weren't there.
Speaker 1: Do you remember when he went on The Hills reboot
Speaker 1: vaguely oh in the Hills the way.
Speaker 2: This was yeah, yeah, this is this is a huge
Speaker 2: moment for me. So The Hills was like one of
Speaker 2: the biggest TV shows in the world when it was out,
Speaker 2: like you know many many like over a decade ago.
Speaker 2: You know, Lauren Conrad, Heidi montag Or during a Partridge,
Speaker 2: you know, the girls living in la and you.
Speaker 1: Follow their careers and stuff. And then a couple of
Speaker 1: years ago they brought it back as a reboot without
Speaker 1: Lauren Conrad and it wasn't great. It was very strange.
Speaker 2: It was nice to see like a Whitney Port and
Speaker 2: stuff back, but also like they just didn't have this drama.
Speaker 2: But interesting thing was they bought Misha Barton onto one
Speaker 2: of the oh yeah yeah as a cast member, which
Speaker 2: is so crazy because when The Hills was out, Misha
Speaker 2: Butarton wasn't a reality start. She was the star of
Speaker 2: the OC, the biggest TV show in the world.
Speaker 1: They all owe their careers to her. Yeah, because the
Speaker 1: OC came out and then they were like, let's do
Speaker 1: Laguna Beach at it and it was Laguna Beach the
Speaker 1: real OC. Yeah, how it was built.
Speaker 2: Everyone's like, absolutely, give us more of this. And then
Speaker 2: The Hills came off that, so it was interesting. They
Speaker 2: tried to slot Misha Barton into the Hills world, and
Speaker 2: it was her being like, I haven't seen these people
Speaker 2: for years. I used to be friends with her, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, showed me one ounce of proof that you
Speaker 2: know any of these people. She didn't know any of them,
Speaker 2: and it was her trying to get her career back,
Speaker 2: which was very I was super interested in. Yeah, it
Speaker 2: was after Miha Button hadn't worked for years and she
Speaker 2: was trying to be an actress that was following her
Speaker 2: to auditions and all these things. But the show didn't work.
Speaker 1: Misha Button on the show didn't work, and Miha Button
Speaker 1: as a reality start didn't work. But what did work
Speaker 1: and what I thought was such a like a cultural moment,
Speaker 1: was they brought Perez Hilton onto one of the episodes,
Speaker 1: and he came into this bar where they're all hanging out,
Speaker 1: and they filmed Mischa Barton confronting him. Well, because she
Speaker 1: was one of his big touch she was one of.
Speaker 2: His big targets, Like I feel like he would have
Speaker 2: people fallen because you know, she was in that set
Speaker 2: of like Lindsay Lowe and Nicole Richie, Paris Hilton, all
Speaker 2: dressed by Rachel Zoe, all going out and like.
Speaker 1: Part of dating that heiress or not. Heires what Tina's
Speaker 1: dumb allegations are true?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and photos of Mischa Barton like wildly partying were
Speaker 2: like a very hot commodity. But he would post really
Speaker 2: terrible things about her. Rumors he would like draw ugly
Speaker 2: pictures of her, just horrific. And so Misha Button on
Speaker 2: the Hills confronted him and he's quite quite shocked. He
Speaker 2: was coming in too like party with and afterwards he
Speaker 2: did say he didn't expect it to go that way.
Speaker 2: I think he thought he was coming in to kind
Speaker 2: of like party with the Hills cast and have like
Speaker 2: a bit of a two thousands like nostalgia moment. But
Speaker 2: in Mischebaton, she was like, this is my retribution. I'm gonna,
Speaker 2: like every bad thing that's been said about me by
Speaker 2: anyone in the last twenty years, it's all going to come
Speaker 2: out in this moment. So she confronted him and it
Speaker 2: was like really good TV. And it was incredible to
Speaker 2: her kind of like saying telling him to his face
Speaker 2: what he'd done, and him kind of apologizing and like
Speaker 2: looking quite like distressed at what she was saying. And
Speaker 2: it just was like such a big moment. And I
Speaker 2: think from now on he still reports on celebrity stuff,
Speaker 2: but he has.
Speaker 1: Toned it down a bit.
Speaker 2: And that's the thing that I think some people are
Speaker 2: grappling with at the moment is that we've seen this
Speaker 2: video of Prize Hilton, even if he didn't want to
Speaker 2: see it, it's out in the world, all of his
Speaker 2: health informations being made public. As his family said, there's
Speaker 2: people camped outside the facility, he's in the Piple camp
Speaker 2: outside his home. There's people tracking down his children, and
Speaker 2: there's one big group of people that are like, we
Speaker 2: need to like give him privacy and respect in this moment,
Speaker 2: and then you have another group of people being but
Speaker 2: he never afforded that to anyone else. Who was going
Speaker 2: through this in the public eye, so why should we
Speaker 2: do it now?
Speaker 1: That's why as well. So like the Taylor mums and
Speaker 1: call her Daddy clip has resurfaced, a lot of these
Speaker 1: things that you and I have just discussed are being
Speaker 1: brought back up because people are saying, well, he did
Speaker 1: this to this person, and he did this to this person,
Speaker 1: so does he deserve privacy when he didn't give it
Speaker 1: to anyone else. What was really interesting to me was
Speaker 1: like I saw you know, you know, Dared Padilecchi, you're
Speaker 1: more girl supernatural. Oh, I know Laura's favorite. He put
Speaker 1: out a tweet saying like, hey, Perez just wanted to
Speaker 1: reach out and let you know you're in my thoughts,
Speaker 1: like being a human being is exhausting and awful and
Speaker 1: all of these things. So he put that statement out.
Speaker 1: Then it received so much backlash of like why would
Speaker 1: you say this? How dare you show sympathy to Perez
Speaker 1: Hilton that Jared Padlechi took it down. Then he put
Speaker 1: up a second tweet saying I didn't know it's been
Speaker 1: brought to my attention. I'm sorry, and then he put
Speaker 1: up a third with more detail, basically explaining himself for
Speaker 1: why he'd reached out to Perez Hilton, and he said,
Speaker 1: I had absolutely no idea about his past. I'd obviously
Speaker 1: heard of him. I had heard he hadn't been kind
Speaker 1: to me in my past, like that he'd written bad
Speaker 1: things about Jared Pedelechi in the Yeah, yeah he did.
Speaker 1: But he said, my thought is always to give grace
Speaker 1: and forgiveness to those who may have tried to harm you.
Speaker 1: In my experience, it usually works out better than holding
Speaker 1: a grudge or wishing punishment on someone else. That being said,
Speaker 1: I truly didn't know anything about the extent of what
Speaker 1: he has done, and that's my bad. And he kind
Speaker 1: He went on for a very long time, and he
Speaker 1: was like, I'm sorry if my words caused any harm,
Speaker 1: and I hope you are all well out there and
Speaker 1: taking care of yourselves. But I think it's interesting that
Speaker 1: there was a pretty hefty group of people try like
Speaker 1: attacking Jared Padlechi for showing empathy for another person because
Speaker 1: they don't like the things that he's done in his past.
Speaker 1: And as we've just said, like Perez Hilton has done
Speaker 1: a lot of horrible things. He's done a lot of
Speaker 1: concerning things like publishing photos of miners up their skirts
Speaker 1: and things like that, and harassing Britney Spears and all
Speaker 1: of these things that we've said, he has done a
Speaker 1: lot of awful and outing other celebrities. A big part
Speaker 1: of his campaign was outing gay celebrities.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like he would like hunt down information ye about
Speaker 2: celebrities that he knew were not ready to talk about
Speaker 2: their sexuality or didn't want to, were fearful for like
Speaker 2: their safety or their careers, and he would out them anyway.
Speaker 2: And he was kind of like a blood sport for
Speaker 2: him that he then monetized. And you have celebrities like
Speaker 2: Neil Patrick Harris who have come out and said like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I was happy, Like he was with his partner David,
Speaker 2: who's now married and they have kids, and he was like, yep,
Speaker 2: David and I will go to events together and we
Speaker 2: weren't hiding the fact that we were together. But I
Speaker 2: wasn't ready to make this big statement about my private life.
Speaker 2: And it's a big deal and pros Hilton basically outed him.
Speaker 1: And proudly so. Like Perez at the time spoke to
Speaker 1: the Los Angeles Times and was like, it's not embarrassing
Speaker 1: to be gay. Everyone should just come out. I think
Speaker 1: of it as my duty to out people if they
Speaker 1: don't want to, and like that is horrible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then he tried to downplay it later on
Speaker 2: when that's sort of like people were just like, that's
Speaker 2: it's not your duty to be adding celebrities because you
Speaker 2: think that the public deserves to know. And then he'd say, like, well,
Speaker 2: I only added like a Queen Latifa because I just
Speaker 2: know her girlfriend and I know they're together, and why
Speaker 2: wouldn't I say it out loud? And it's like she's
Speaker 2: clearly not saying it because she's wanting private about her
Speaker 2: own life. And so it's kind of interesting, like who
Speaker 2: has spoken on it. So Ilan Baldwin, who we were
Speaker 2: talking about before, who is you know, one of his
Speaker 2: biggest targets for years, also put out a statement and
Speaker 2: said pras Hilton has publicly humiliated my family for years,
Speaker 2: sexualized me from a young age, commented on my weight
Speaker 2: and body as a child, and has always been a
Speaker 2: despicable human being. But his children deserve better and a
Speaker 2: healthy father, and I'm sad.
Speaker 1: For all of them. I hope he gets the help
Speaker 1: he needs and heals I think, I mean and that's
Speaker 1: someone who has extreme personal stake in what he's done
Speaker 1: to me. Yeah. I thought that was really much graceful
Speaker 1: of her to put that statement out. Yeah, And I
Speaker 1: think it's a classic two things can be true, Like
Speaker 1: someone can have done irreparable damage to people and be
Speaker 1: a person who has done bad things and done horrible
Speaker 1: things and made people feel terrible about themselves, and you
Speaker 1: can also have empathy for their family and for what
Speaker 1: they've gone through and to not do the same things
Speaker 1: to them that they have done to other people. I
Speaker 1: think that's the thing that I've found really interesting is
Speaker 1: a lot of people online and like it's not a
Speaker 1: small cohort, it's a large amount of people tweeting and
Speaker 1: commenting and making videos saying he deserves to be photographed
Speaker 1: in this moment, his children deserve to be photographed in
Speaker 1: this moment. And I think with that, like, what are
Speaker 1: you trying to say, Like, if you think what he
Speaker 1: did was bad, if you think what he did is problematic,
Speaker 1: which I do, why would you think that the answer
Speaker 1: is more of that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and his three children or under the age of thirteen,
Speaker 2: just to kind of give I mean, not that it
Speaker 2: would matter what age they were, but yeah, that's what
Speaker 2: we're dealing with that. Yeah, I hold these things, these
Speaker 2: two things so differently in my head. The same is
Speaker 2: that on one hand, I so firmly believe that like
Speaker 2: so much of what Perez Hilton has done is so
Speaker 2: kind of like unforgivable over the last twenty years. But
Speaker 2: I feel like when he had like sometimes had endorsement
Speaker 2: deals taken away or was taken off TV shows, or
Speaker 2: at one stage he had like his social accounts taken
Speaker 2: away for you know, saying like hurtful, damaging things about people,
Speaker 2: I think that's the way that you deal with something
Speaker 2: about on a professional level. Hold I hold his professional
Speaker 2: life so differently in my head to how I hold
Speaker 2: this thing that has happened with his mental health in
Speaker 2: his life. And I do kind of I much, very
Speaker 2: much understand people saying like give him grace for his children,
Speaker 2: but also even if he didn't have children, I would
Speaker 2: find children are a huge factor because people are hunting
Speaker 2: them down to get photos of them and saying it's karma,
Speaker 2: which is the way he had because yes, he doesn't
Speaker 2: show photos of children.
Speaker 1: He hasn't. Last ten years, since that whole movement that
Speaker 1: was led by celebrities like Kristen Belendack shit, but of
Speaker 1: like the no kids policy, Yeah, he did ahere to that,
Speaker 1: but he didn't for a long time.
Speaker 2: Before long years before that he was doing it. But
Speaker 2: I don't see that. I don't see what's happened in
Speaker 2: this moment to him and his mental health and his
Speaker 2: family and his children. I don't see that as being
Speaker 2: wrapped up what happened in his professional life, like they
Speaker 2: have to be held differently. Yeah, and what is to
Speaker 2: be gained for punishing these three young children for things
Speaker 2: that he did to celebrity dad twenty years ago? Yeah,
Speaker 2: And like you said, I think the children thing is
Speaker 2: a huge deal, and I agree with you. But also
Speaker 2: even if he didn't have children, even if he didn't
Speaker 2: have like his family worried about him, even if it
Speaker 2: was just him alone, I still think that he as
Speaker 2: a human being deserves like our empathy for what he's
Speaker 2: gone through, because what else is there? And I actually
Speaker 2: find it like not comforting, but I find it like
Speaker 2: a good kind of looking at a step forward that
Speaker 2: if this had happened at the height of Perez Hilton's
Speaker 2: like blog fame to another celebrity and he was posting,
Speaker 2: and other outlets were posting, they would be posting the video.
Speaker 2: There'd be all the sortied that, like, all the stories
Speaker 2: would be like the sordid details from inside the house
Speaker 2: and all these things. The kids photos would be on
Speaker 2: the cover of magazines. I do find a little bit
Speaker 2: comforting now, even though that some people are calling for
Speaker 2: that a bigger part of the media and the general public,
Speaker 2: the bigger part of is everyone saying, don't show that,
Speaker 2: it's invasive, it's upsetting, have some sort of protection, like
Speaker 2: it does. When I think about to two thousand and
Speaker 2: five to now, things have gotten slightly better in the
Speaker 2: way that we report on these sorts of things and
Speaker 2: the way that people handle them, and the way the
Speaker 2: public because like, if this had happened to someone like
Speaker 2: pros Hilton even fifteen years ago, it would have been
Speaker 2: this whole like kind of like sport or game of
Speaker 2: like who can get the most photos the most, who
Speaker 2: wants sell it for the highest amount of money, who
Speaker 2: can have the most graphic photos or the most you know,
Speaker 2: kind of like tabloidy headline, And the fact that there's
Speaker 2: been a lot of questions around not doing that, even
Speaker 2: to the person that was the center of that yeap
Speaker 2: is I think kind of like it's a positive step
Speaker 2: forward in that.
Speaker 1: Sense, and like, yeah, as I said, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of horrible people saying horrible things about him and what
Speaker 1: he deserves at this moment. But yes, it is much
Speaker 1: more comforting to think that the majority of people are
Speaker 1: not engaging with this story. Yeah, And a lot of
Speaker 1: people aren't trying to see that video unfitionally. It is
Speaker 1: just I think a lot of the clips that have
Speaker 1: been taken and reposed to have been taken down, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that people aren't seeking it out. Yeah. I think Wendy Williams,
Speaker 1: like in the past few years said kind of offhand,
Speaker 1: like I would ask for privacy, but I know that
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have given it to someone who was going
Speaker 1: through what I'm going through. And like, I thought that
Speaker 1: was really interesting and sort of similar to the way
Speaker 1: that I feel about the prose situation. Is that just
Speaker 1: because someone spearheaded this kind of cultural like conversation and
Speaker 1: inappropriate sort of content, that we don't do that to
Speaker 1: them when they're going through something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And just to finish up too, I think
Speaker 2: there's a lot of people out there that still feel
Speaker 2: like the intense psychological hurt, like physical herd all these
Speaker 2: things from like what pros Hilton posts about them, and
Speaker 2: there's I think also a station to like just acknowledge
Speaker 2: that as well.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I do think again it's one of those
Speaker 1: complex issues, but I think it's just one of those
Speaker 1: cases of holding two different thoughts in the same time.
Speaker 1: So if you kind of just glance at the headlines,
Speaker 1: it would look like Martha Stewart has outed Megan Markle
Speaker 1: for sharing some royal information that she shouldn't be sharing.
Speaker 1: But let's dive into what actually happened.
Speaker 2: Because it's like a lot of headlines that Martha Stewart
Speaker 2: makes is that she was just as part of an interview.
Speaker 2: She's just kind of like chatting away, but because she's
Speaker 2: quite unfiltered, she'll just say something that I'm sure to
Speaker 2: her doesn't seem like a big deal, but then it
Speaker 2: gets pulled out into this big story and made a
Speaker 2: big deal. And also that is the power of Martha
Speaker 2: Stewart because for someone who's you know, kind of made
Speaker 2: her fame of the last couple of decades of being
Speaker 2: like the queen of like homemaking and cooking, and lifestyle.
Speaker 1: And friends with Snoop Dogg.
Speaker 2: Yeah, being friends with the good friends with Snoop Dogg
Speaker 2: and going to jail and getting out of jail and
Speaker 2: rebuilding her career and being like the kind of person
Speaker 2: you look to have, Like, how do you behave at
Speaker 2: a dinner party? She also knows how to behave at
Speaker 2: dinner party and give us some give us tea, Give.
Speaker 1: Us some tea.
Speaker 2: So in a recent big cover story with People magazine
Speaker 2: where she was creating like a past kind of cover
Speaker 2: shooting interview that she'd done, they were doing interview with
Speaker 2: her and they one of the questions was what do
Speaker 2: you like at a party Martha Stewart, Because you know,
Speaker 2: she's the queen of hosting, So what is she like
Speaker 2: when she's a guest at a party? And she said,
Speaker 2: my friends call me lifo.
Speaker 1: Last in first out, she said, I don't like cocktails
Speaker 1: terribly much. I don't like standing around if it's a dinner.
Speaker 1: I like to get there when people are about to
Speaker 1: sit down, and then I like to leave shortly after
Speaker 1: dessert is served. But I have a good time while
Speaker 1: I'm there. And then no, literally, no one brought this up.
Speaker 1: No one asked, Martha Stewart just decided to throw this
Speaker 1: little tidbit in. Then she said, I had dinner with
Speaker 1: Megan Markle the other night. We were both guests at
Speaker 1: a dinner party in California and she had just gotten
Speaker 1: back from the Palace. I didn't talk to her really
Speaker 1: more than to say a couple of words, but I
Speaker 1: know she was talking about it. And then the People
Speaker 1: magazine did she talk about her life? God?
Speaker 2: And then People Magazine said, what do you think about
Speaker 2: her stepping into your space with her own cooking show?
Speaker 2: Because if there's one thing Martha Stewart loves to talk about,
Speaker 2: it's other famous women stepping into her territory of cooking
Speaker 2: and lifestyle.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And so then Martha Stewart said, if you're an actress,
Speaker 1: it's hard then to transition to a princess, and then
Speaker 1: from a princess to a homemaking guru on a television show.
Speaker 1: It doesn't sort of follow, so you go from there.
Speaker 1: And that's all she said. I think that's true to
Speaker 1: all Martha carry on.
Speaker 2: So then a source came to People Magazine, who I'm
Speaker 2: going to go out on a limit, say, a source
Speaker 2: from Megan Marcau's team or even Megan mark Or herself
Speaker 2: contacting People Magazine and saying I sat next to Meghan
Speaker 2: at the dinner party and this account of what happened
Speaker 2: is simply untrue. Megan didn't talk about her European vacation
Speaker 2: other than to say the family had a great time.
Speaker 2: Megan has always been a fan of Martha's and enjoyed
Speaker 2: getting to meet her briefly at the dinner tea.
Speaker 1: I think Martha's always saying something, you know, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: what I know about something.
Speaker 2: But why this is kind of blown up is one,
Speaker 2: as we always say, anything to do with Megan Markle
Speaker 2: is a lightning rod for comments and articles and headlines.
Speaker 2: But why this is blown up is that, yes, it
Speaker 2: was very widely reported that Prince Harry, Megan Michael, and
Speaker 2: their two children, Archie and Lilibet went to the UK
Speaker 2: huge deal, met with the Royal family, met with King Charles,
Speaker 2: and there was a lot of speculation of how that went.
Speaker 2: That the Royal family was repelling Megan market awall that
Speaker 2: they didn't want to see her and that things went badly,
Speaker 2: and then some people were reporting that it went well.
Speaker 2: But one of the big stories that came out is
Speaker 2: that Harry and Meghan, from reports, stayed at Princess Diana's
Speaker 2: big family, famous family compound and visited her great and
Speaker 2: apparently the Spencer family had said, like, you can come
Speaker 2: and stay here because obviously your family.
Speaker 1: But this is all like again.
Speaker 2: Reports allegedly, yeah, all these things, but do we don't
Speaker 2: share photographs from this? Yeah, area and place like there
Speaker 2: are parts of that house that are open to the
Speaker 2: public that you can tour at different parts of the year,
Speaker 2: but the part of the property on the little island
Speaker 2: where Princess Diana is buried and her memorial is is
Speaker 2: off limits to the public, and no one, no family
Speaker 2: who visit their share photos. And then their Meghan Markele
Speaker 2: posted photos of just like standing back of Prince Harry
Speaker 2: like his back and their two kids walking behind him
Speaker 2: carrying flowers in an area that people have said is
Speaker 2: on the property heading to Princess Diana's grave. And so
Speaker 2: then that blow up into this whole story of that
Speaker 2: I missed that one. Oh yeah, so they'll is something
Speaker 2: mean and then that blew up of like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: Diana's family trusted Meghan, they asked her not to post photos.
Speaker 2: She couldn't help herself. They're clearly heading to the memorial.
Speaker 2: It's so distasteful. And then these reports came out about
Speaker 2: how many times Prince William and Princess Catherine and their
Speaker 2: three children had visited a memorial and they're like and
Speaker 2: you never.
Speaker 1: See a photo.
Speaker 2: They're so private, and so that blew up into a
Speaker 2: huge story, and the story was that Meghan Markle was
Speaker 2: trying to like capitalize and like make headlines with her
Speaker 2: visits to the UK, to the royal family and to
Speaker 2: Princess Diana's family, and so in any other time, this
Speaker 2: remarked from Martha Stewart of like, oh, she was talking
Speaker 2: about her holiday and she just was back from the
Speaker 2: family palace and she was talking about it might not
Speaker 2: have been such a big deal. But because people already
Speaker 2: saying that Meghan Mikael was sharing stories, gossiping, trying to
Speaker 2: get some fame off it, that's why this blew up.
Speaker 2: And I think that's why a spokesperson then came to
Speaker 2: people and said this didn't happen. She didn't say anything. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because they're trying to pull that story back.
Speaker 1: Sounds like a lot of nothing.
Speaker 2: Sounds like Michael. She was like, well, I didn't know.
Speaker 2: The thing is Martha Stewart always says I don't read
Speaker 2: the things. Yeah, she doesn't often know being said about
Speaker 2: other celebrities.
Speaker 1: That's her story, that's her story, and I don't buy it.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Martha. I like you. I think I don't know.
Speaker 1: You scare me. But she's scary. But she met like
Speaker 1: King Charles not that long ago. Like she knows these people.
Speaker 1: She knows there's tension, she knows everything that's going. Like,
Speaker 1: she's not stupid. She's Martha Stewart.
Speaker 2: I know, but she does her big things like I
Speaker 2: don't read all the things, like I don't have time.
Speaker 2: She's like, I don't have time for that. And she
Speaker 2: said that because she was on one of the last
Speaker 2: seasons of the Kardashians, you know, the Kardashians thing where
Speaker 2: they like invent these storylines to fill time because Kim's
Speaker 2: the only one actually doing the work and show.
Speaker 1: You love to say that, and I stand by that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but if you're get to fill time, fill it
Speaker 2: with Martha Stewart. So the whole thing was like Martha
Speaker 2: Stewart came to Chris Jenna's house. She invited her daughter,
Speaker 2: Chloe over who lives next door, to come in and
Speaker 2: meet her new chef. When she walked into the kitchen,
Speaker 2: like Martha Stewart was hired there, Martha, she was like, oh.
Speaker 1: She was just like, hey, like I do I enjoy her? Like,
Speaker 1: can't like her vibe? Yeah, I don't care. The world's mine.
Speaker 1: I Yeah.
Speaker 2: She was like, I'm here at the Kardashian's house. I'm
Speaker 2: being filmed. I'm kind of unimpressed, but like, it's a
Speaker 2: nice house and this speech is nice. She does seem perpetually.
Speaker 2: I'm unimpressed by everything. Yes, But the thing is when
Speaker 2: they sat down at lunch, she said to Chloe, so
Speaker 2: tell me, do you have a husband, have kids?
Speaker 1: What's going on?
Speaker 2: She's like, I don't read the things. And then Chloe
Speaker 2: had to be like, well, yeah, children, Yeah, I have
Speaker 2: two children. I'm not with the father of my children
Speaker 2: because he cheated on me and had a child with
Speaker 2: another woman while we were expecting a child. And Martha goes, oh,
Speaker 2: that's not nice. Chloe's like, it isn't nice. That's so true.
Speaker 2: So that's her thing, that's her thing.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: It's like she's like, I don't know. Tell me, you
Speaker 2: tell me what's happening. So I think there's I don't
Speaker 2: think that when people say that Martha Stuart was trying
Speaker 2: to out Megan Markle.
Speaker 1: That probabs not. I think she's just trying to have her.
Speaker 2: I think she unintentionally waded into a firestorm. Yes, but
Speaker 2: she likes to add a little shade.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, she does. She likes to add a comment
Speaker 1: about like, oh, well, it's hard to transition from being
Speaker 1: an actress into a princess into being a homemaking guru
Speaker 1: doesn't follow. I think it does. I think it's a
Speaker 1: pretty obvious career. In fact, Martha, I think going from
Speaker 1: actress to royal, which some would say is an actress,
Speaker 1: I would to lady who makes jam, because you learned
Speaker 1: how to make jam at the palace, Like, pretty solid
Speaker 1: career paths are now obviously.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think the biggest burn to that to
Speaker 2: Megan Minkle is that Martha Stewart, who she has talked
Speaker 2: about loving and she loves Meghan Michael, is like the
Speaker 2: prime fan of a Martha Stewart, is that Martha Stewart
Speaker 2: doesn't know about the tig And I think that would
Speaker 2: be the biggest.
Speaker 1: Blow to Megan Markle because Meghan Michael had a huge
Speaker 1: The Better though, and she became a royal. Yeah.
Speaker 2: She had a lifestyle blog called The Tig that was
Speaker 2: like trying, you know, attempting to almost like it was
Speaker 2: like an homage to Martha Stewart. And so the fact
Speaker 2: that Martha stew was like, she's an actress, she has
Speaker 2: no business, and you just see Megan Michael being.
Speaker 1: Like, but the Tig a the Tig.
Speaker 2: But Mother Stewart, in fairness to her, loves to comment
Speaker 2: on actresses coming into her space. Yeah, so she has
Speaker 2: commented on Blake Lively before. And the fun thing about
Speaker 2: this is that she and Blake Cogliff were friendly. They
Speaker 2: were neighbors, and they were like buddies. They were buddies
Speaker 2: because they lived in the same area in like big
Speaker 2: compounds and they would visit each other. But when Blake
Speaker 2: Lively launched her big lifestyle website, Preserve, which did have
Speaker 2: rip r ip, that was Preserves a of my favorite
Speaker 2: things to talk about. We read one a whole episode.
Speaker 2: So and I'm not in a mean way, but like
Speaker 2: I feel bad for Blake Lively because she tried to
Speaker 2: launch this big lifestyle website. It wasn't ready to go live,
Speaker 2: and then Anna wind Tour said, I'm putting on the
Speaker 2: cover of Vogue so that you can launch Preserve, and
Speaker 2: then Blake Lively said, well, we're not ready, but you
Speaker 2: don't say no to and a wind Tour. So it
Speaker 2: launched with the craziest cover letter celebrity has ever written
Speaker 2: for a website, where she talked about artisans which is
Speaker 2: her favorite word to use, but then she also talked
Speaker 2: about being hungry but not just for enchiladas, for ideas,
Speaker 2: and yeah, Jesus.
Speaker 1: It's the craziest thing.
Speaker 2: And it's this beautiful photo of Blake Lively of like
Speaker 2: it's her seemingly like writing her letter, but she's like
Speaker 2: kind of like sitting in like the window of a
Speaker 2: barn in black and white. There was a lot of barns,
Speaker 2: and a lot of barns, a lot of nineties, a
Speaker 2: lot of like wooden bowls.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all the things. And so Preserve died rip, it
Speaker 1: died a brutal death and she had to shut it
Speaker 1: all down. So yes, when Preserve was launching and Martha's
Speaker 1: Stuitt was asked about it, like, oh, Blake Lively who
Speaker 1: talks about loving you so openly and so much, And
Speaker 1: Martha Stewart said, let her try, and then she said
Speaker 1: that don't mean that facetiously.
Speaker 2: She said, I mean it's stupid. She could be an actress.
Speaker 2: Why would you want to be me when you could
Speaker 2: be an actress? And then she goes, why did a
Speaker 2: movie yesterday? Though I can't even tell you about it?
Speaker 2: But I maybe I want to be Blake Lively. It's
Speaker 2: so funny because when she's like, why she she's an actress,
Speaker 2: why does she want to be me? That's what I
Speaker 2: think every time an act just launch a podcast like
Speaker 2: Amy Pola, What are you doing? Love your pod?
Speaker 1: But Amy Pola is like I met Laura Brodnick once,
Speaker 1: she seemed cool and also.
Speaker 2: Podcast everyone who watches the podcast, I'm like, you don't
Speaker 2: have to do that. You could just go be a
Speaker 2: famous actress. Love that you did it. The Donuts Brothers
Speaker 2: were they doing reading ads on a podcast? I know
Speaker 2: they need the money, but how dare you? They are
Speaker 2: very successful on their podcast? Oh yeah I didn't so
Speaker 2: yeah exactly, but yeah, like Martha Stewart, then then she
Speaker 2: also wanted.
Speaker 1: To say that Blake Lively is lovely. She's so shy.
Speaker 1: She's like, yeah, she's really like out there in public,
Speaker 1: but she's so so shy behind the scenes, you wouldn't
Speaker 1: believe it. We're just scared of Martha Stewart. She's scared
Speaker 1: of you. She's obsessed with you, and she's like your neighbors.
Speaker 1: So like, you've interacted and now she can't speak in
Speaker 1: front of you, and then you said her sight was
Speaker 1: kind of ridiculous, So that happened. Martha Swarts also had
Speaker 1: a lot to say about Gwyneth Paltrow, who, amongst us,
Speaker 1: hasn't When she was lawn in group and she was
Speaker 1: doing all these interus and stuff, Martha Stewart said, Oh,
Speaker 1: she just needs to be quiet. She's a movie star.
Speaker 2: If she was confident in her acting, she wouldn't be
Speaker 2: trying to be Martha Stewart.
Speaker 1: Martha's like, why does everyone want to be mere? She's like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, she want an oscar. Then she's like,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm going to do next? Be Martha Stewart.
Speaker 1: Although that's what all the TikTok girlies are doing now too.
Speaker 1: They're all trying to be Martha Stewarts. Oh, Solcia.
Speaker 2: Sure, yees me, I'm trying to be Ininegarten. Yeah, oh,
Speaker 2: don't say that name in front of Martha Stewart. They
Speaker 2: famously fight, those two lovely famous celebrity chefs. And then
Speaker 2: later on when she was asked, because the thing.
Speaker 1: Is, if you ask Martha Stewart about Gwyneth Paltrow, she
Speaker 1: loved to talk about it. She's got so many thoughts
Speaker 1: on Gray Paltrow. She was saying again when she was
Speaker 1: like really trying to get Goop out of just being
Speaker 1: a newsletter to being this huge, big like website and
Speaker 1: e commerce store and all these things, she said, well,
Speaker 1: she just really wants to be part of the lifestyle business.
Speaker 1: She's a charming pretty person who has a feeling for
Speaker 1: lifestyle and she wants to be in arbiter. Good. Fine,
Speaker 1: I think I started the whole category of lifestyle anyway, which,
Speaker 1: to be honest, she kind of did. But then she
Speaker 1: Martha Stewart had a real problem with Gwenneth's vagina Candle,
Speaker 1: I can remember that again, who she thought she it
Speaker 1: was kind of sullying this lifestyle brand. She's like I
Speaker 1: star and she's like, I invented lifestyle. Me Martha Stewart,
Speaker 1: then Gwyneth Paltrow, a pretty actress with nothing else to do,
Speaker 1: who's not confident in her acting, tried to be me fine, fine,
Speaker 1: But now she's selling vagina candles and the only people
Speaker 1: who want to buy that are horny man, which I
Speaker 1: actually disagree with because I know a lot of women
Speaker 1: who bought the vagina candles, like, ah, this is cute.
Speaker 1: Martha is such an enigma, Like I get it, but
Speaker 1: also I don't because you also didn't invent lifestyle and
Speaker 1: you also sell weird shit all the time. Yeah, what
Speaker 1: are you talking about.
Speaker 2: I don't think she I don't think she has a
Speaker 2: problem with people like monetizing it. I think she's a
Speaker 2: problem with people not staying in their lane, particularly it
Speaker 2: would appear very rich, famous, white blonde women.
Speaker 1: She knows she also falls into that. No, I know,
Speaker 1: but I just think I was gonna say, not me
Speaker 1: defending Martha Stuart. But I like about this, you can
Speaker 1: do it well. She has to really.
Speaker 2: Build up her empire, and she did it for decades,
Speaker 2: and she wasn't coming off the back of like a
Speaker 2: Gwyneth Paltrow, like a famous stand Yeah. Yeah, and she's
Speaker 2: not coming off her. I think her thought is she
Speaker 2: had to really build her business from the ground up,
Speaker 2: and she didn't tack it onto the side of a hot,
Speaker 2: big Hollywood career. Yes and arguably the most famous woman
Speaker 2: in the world for lifestyle, yes, so yes, so that
Speaker 2: she did. Think she feels like she is like the
Speaker 2: queen of them all, the godmother, so she gets to
Speaker 2: comment on them.
Speaker 1: And she's not wrong. They do all want to be her.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they all want to be her, that's true,
Speaker 2: and just find it funny how brutal she is. I
Speaker 2: just think there's a way that those kind of type
Speaker 2: of women, like a lot of the time, talk about
Speaker 2: each other, and there's this whole thing of like, but
Speaker 2: our lifestyle brands are about like feeling, even though they're
Speaker 2: obviously not. They're selling this unrealistic lifestyle. They're like, buy
Speaker 2: this bottle of stuff that'll promise to fix your entire life,
Speaker 2: and by the couple side of it and go yeah,
Speaker 2: and that sort of stuff. But there's a way those
Speaker 2: women talk about each other, which is like room for
Speaker 2: all of us support each other womanhood. It's like going
Speaker 2: to the Paltrow like inviting Courtney Kardashian over when she
Speaker 2: started poosh or inviting Megan markel over, when she started Yes,
Speaker 2: Riviera Orchard.
Speaker 1: This was that. Yes, that was the original name before
Speaker 1: she had to change it. Yes, and so that but
Speaker 1: Martha Stewart doesn't fall into line of that why they
Speaker 1: all want her approval, And that's why they all want
Speaker 1: her approval. So that's what's happened between Megan Markle and
Speaker 1: Martha Stewart. Martha Stewart thought she'd throw Megan Mikale's name
Speaker 1: out there again, no one asked. Thought she'd throw it
Speaker 1: out there just to sort of explain the situation of
Speaker 1: how she is at a dinner party. Megan Michael realized
Speaker 1: it as like this huge blowing up of her spot
Speaker 1: at the moment for the scandal she's currently dealing with.
Speaker 1: And then I'm sure if anyone would ask Martha Stewart
Speaker 1: at the moment, oh what do you think of like
Speaker 1: all the drama with you and Mega Markle or she
Speaker 1: would say, I don't know, I don't read the things.
Speaker 1: That's a beautiful way to be. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for listening to this spill today. If this episode brought
Speaker 1: up anything for you, we have linked resources in the
Speaker 1: show Notes. We will be back in your feed bright
Speaker 1: and early tomorrow morning with Morning Tea hosted by Ash London.
Speaker 1: Bye bye,